A Dance with Dragons and HBO
By Winter Is Coming on in Books, Speculation.

With the news that Martin hopes to have A Dance with Dragons published by Sept. or Oct., whether you believe him or not, what does this mean for the HBO series?

The timing of that potential release seems to match up pretty well with when HBO may be making a decision on Thrones. Seeing Dance rocket to the top of the best seller list could help them make that decision. It could certainly help their potential bottom line if they can build off the buzz and visibility of having a best seller by announcing that the full series will be going into production.

Or if they decide to make the decision sooner they may be able to build visibility for the project by slapping a “Soon to be an HBO series!” sticker on the cover. While I would expect many of Martin’s fans already know about the possibility of the HBO adaptation, I’m sure there are many more that don’t frequent Martin’s site or the other fan sites and have no idea. Using the much anticipated 5th book to advertise their upcoming series will help guarantee HBO most of the ASOIAF fan base will be tuning in once it gets to air.

Whatever HBO decides to do, I just really, really hope to be reading Dance sometime this fall.


42 Comments

  1. Anonymous
    Posted February 20, 2009 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    George’s 1-2 punch yesterday of “Good news.” and “I’m trying; if you don’t like it, go sit on a limited edition stainless steel merchandise sword.” was spectacular.

    Seeing an author breaking out of our usual lilly-livered meekness was refreshing. It, at the least, made me happy. As an author with supportive fans, I have to say, I’d prefer having no fans than angry fans. And George has managed to piss off a lot of silly people. When he has all their money from DwD, no doubt, he’ll be able to tell the difference and buy season tickets with it. Or perhaps make a youtube video bathing in the piles of cash of all the self-righteous complainers who bought his book anyway.

    As to the HBO series, HBO tends to make projects their own. There may be some minimal interplay between them and the publisher, but the sticker will likely be the whole of such contact.

  2. Anonymous
    Posted February 20, 2009 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    “I just really, really hope to be reading Dance sometime this fall.”

    I wouldn’t hold your breath. As GRRM said himself in the post, he’s made these predictions before. And not just the times he mentions with this book, but AFfC as well. I wouldn’t let his non-update update get you to excited. It’ll be out when its out.

  3. Lordnedshead
    Posted February 20, 2009 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    I’m probably going to take some hits for this but so be it. George’s posts yesterday seemed unnecessarily petulant to me. Yes, he has some people who are growing impatient with the delay. Can you really blame us? A Feast for Crows was released in 2005. That book as described by the author is in truth only half of the actual fourth planned book. This means that fans of the series have been waiting almost a decade now for a completed fourth book. A decade since Tyrion set sail in exile. A decade since Jon Snow took the helm of the Night’s watch. A decade since Daenarys began to gather her strength in Meereen. A Storm of Swords was released in 2000. In the year 2000 the movie Galdiator won the Academy Awards. The West Wing won the Emmy for best drama. Smooth featuring Rob Thomas and Carlos Santana won the Grammy for best song.
    In 2000 Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire was released, Since then we have seen three more books to finish that series. Since 2000 we have been treated to the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy on film. Not original material? Ok. The television series Lost first aired in 2004. We are currently into the second last season of that show. Star Wars ep 1 was released nearly around the same time as Storm. Since then the prequels have finished and there has even been an additional movie (albiet animated) and television show using the franchise. Want something closer to home? Fellow HBO source material author Charlaine Harris released the first Sookie Stackhouse novel in 2001. There have been NINE books since.
    I realize that there is no one else on the planet more frustrated with the delays on Dance than George himself. If you read this (I can dream can’t I? It would be an extreme honor), please understand that I am not one of your “Detractors”. I love your work and wish you nothing but success in Song and all of your other writing endeavors. I can live without the sarcastic jibes towards those of your fans who aren’t content to sit around year after year checking boards daily in hopes that we will recieve the miracle completion message however. We have some stake (a small one admitedly) in the success of the series as well. We gave your books a chance, fell in love with them, and have been left hanging for quite some time now.
    Unlike some people I do not want you to be chained to your desk (but a large cup or spitoon near your workstation for bio breaks would be most efficient (I jest)). I want you to collect as many miniatures as possible. I hope you enjoy every Jets and Giants game you watch to the fullest (except when the G-men run up against my Eagles ;)). Go to conventions. Continue spending time with and loving Parris in the romantic and whole-hearted way you seem to. Play around with other books, short stories and editing projects. But pleeease could you maybe direct your focus a little more towards the series that you’re most dedicated fans long for above the other things you produce? Wildcards is fun. But its not Song. We want more Song.
    Sorry if this is a little off the topic of the post. I kinda got miffed when I read George’s latest message and since I post more here than anywhere else I thought the topic was releated enough to get away with it. I’ll try to stick more to the flavor Winter’s postings from now on. I just wanted to get that off my chest. /Soapbox off!

  4. Anonymous
    Posted February 20, 2009 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    Oh, god forbid that there have been NINE Sookie Stackhouse novels since 2001. I don’t know how George lives with the humiliation.

    In a related note, I have eliminated roughly 2,500 times since 2001. All of them better than a Sookie Stackhouse novel. Beat that, Charlaine Harris…

  5. Anonymous
    Posted February 20, 2009 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    Is it really wrong for those of us who have invested our money and time in this written series to feel a little disapointed? Do you really want to see the series finished "from the authors notes" by some assistant ten years from now? All of you apologist for GRRM should have been with me last summer at COMICON when I went to the Spectra/Bantam booth to pick up the sample chapter from Dance, "Reek" in thier magazine. When I mentioned my fears about the series ever being finished, the folks at the booth more or less agreed. I was heartsick. I LOVE THIS STORY! As far as HBO & the producers are concerned, do you really think that the creator drifting away and unable to sit down complete the source project won't dampen their enthusiasm a little. Anyone reading the blogs/boards of any fanisite, here, amazon, westeros, etc…knows that fans are concerned, and are starting to lose enthusiasm. I'm sorry, but it is tough love time for ol' George. If this book was half done in '05, as he said at the end of Crows, how long between Dance and the next volume? This TV show won't happen if there is a sense the series is going to die unfinished.

  6. Lordnedshead
    Posted February 20, 2009 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    Lol ok Anon. Is this one high brow enough for you? It took Michelangelo four years to paint the Sistine Chapel.

  7. Anonymous
    Posted February 20, 2009 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    But that didn’t stop the Pope form harassing him…something tells me that GRRM and Michelangelo were probably not necessarily enjoying the same pursuits in their free time! Lets all hope for the best, together.

  8. Anonymous
    Posted February 20, 2009 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    Maybe we just all need to stop being so obsessive and get a life and not reading message boards every day to find out updates (although I do anyways).

    From GRRM’s perspective I would be pretty damn upset if someone told me I look unhealthy and am going to pull a Robert Jordan. That’s just not cool.

    From the other perspective it is a tribute to GRRM that people are so passionate about the series that there is a controversy.

  9. Anonymous
    Posted February 20, 2009 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    I’m more or less in Lordnedshead’s corner on this one. By the way you forgot about Galactica, You didn’t mention Peter F. Hamilton’s doorstoppers which get finished with extreme regularity (and on his blog he groans about taking too long!)
    Without talking about overall quality, Terry Goodkind’s massive series got finished…and that was 10 books. (again not talking quality of writing here on that one, but come on, 10 books with a massive page count and plotline.)

    The whine about Charlaine Harris? Not everyone likes the same things. Ned’s point wasn’t about what YOU like, it was about GETTING THINGS FINISHED in a timely manner. Martin can whine till the mountains fall in, but as I’ve posted before, when an author writes a novel it is for him. When he writes a series and releases the first books into the world, THEN its about him AND the readers. No readers, no money and then….

    Also don’t take the sappy happy nature of the Martin’ boards literally. He has assistants in there wiping posts that aren’t positive on an ongoing basis.

    I finish this with a thought I’ve had before, and that is: I’d hate to be his agent dealing with the publisher

  10. Brude
    Posted February 20, 2009 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    I think he’d mind it a lot less if people weren’t constantly sending him messages or posting about their fears for his health – I mean, the tone is always kind of creepy – “boy I hope he doesn’t die before he finishes those books, damn him” instead the much less selfish, “I sure do wish that guy long life and good health, I am such a big fan.” Were it not for that, I think the other stuff would be less annoying to him but that always seems to be there, at least as an undercurrent in a lot of these kinds of posts I’ve read over the years on the Westeros.org forum and elsewhere.

    As for us “deserving more from him?” I say to you all, try writing a 800 page novel, and then following that up with with six more of even greater length, all telling a single story. It’s really hard to do and few out there have the skill to write even one such novel.

    The entirety of The Lord of the Rings was about as long as one and one-half of George’s novels and it took Tolkien the better part of 15 years to write those, maybe more. It’s not uncommon for authors to slave over single tomes for 10 years at a time, or more. Stanley Kubrick could take a decade or more to put together a single one of his films (especially towards the end of his career).

    It’s freakin’ hard to write. I know because I’ve tried and I still try. It was much easier to represent those guys and try to sell their stuff and even that felt like it was more trouble than it was worth sometimes.

    I don’t know, I get kind of miffed myself with that stuff maybe because I’ve been quite close to some very good writers who have struggled and still never sold their works – that frustration is enough. Be thankful this good writer has his freedom to create and put his stuff out there for us and we get to read it when he’s got it good and ready. You’d be amazed what a rare thing that actually can be. You’d be saddened also by all the great screenplays and novels I’ve read that never saw the light of day or sold a few thousand copies and went out of print for good (a lovely mystery called “Blood Sugar” by Jim DeFilippi immediately comes to mind). And then multiply that by thousands for those I’ve never seen to know how much else is actually out there.

    Enjoy what we’re getting and hope for the best. It’s enough.

  11. caseyjp
    Posted February 20, 2009 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    The anon post above was me. (finished with the agent bit).
    I’ll add, as I forgot to…I AM a huge fan of the SoIaF series. I HOPE he does get it done. But I still agree that as a reader in the middle of a series, what is happening here is pushing the wtf boundaries, and some of us, out of love of the story and wanting to see it to its completion are getting to the point that many of Jordan’s fans did when he started drifting off the beam in his works…before he kicked the bucket.

  12. Enchante
    Posted February 21, 2009 at 2:49 am | Permalink

    I think that fans have a right to be angry because they have invested money into ASOIAF. A lof of people would have bought game of thrones liked it and decided to buy the next few books because they have reason to believe that this series will finish sometime. Yes, George is only 60 and he most likely has quite a few more years to live, but it doesn’t stop people from being pessimistic and expecting the worst case (see Robert Jordan).

    I hope it comes out soon, and agree with Winter that having a bestseller and sticker on the book with HBO logo’s all over it will be a good selling point and cheap advertising.

    I know that my friend who is a big ASOIAF fan did not know that is was being a TV series.

  13. Anonymous
    Posted February 21, 2009 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    i for one believe that ADwD will be out this fall. in addition i think the remaining books will be done much quicker (3 years each maybe) than the previous ones. GRRM has much of the end plots already figured out from when the series was only a trilogy. i read AGoT 6 years ago and was hooked. it is the best series i have ever read. so i wait patiently for the other books and adaptions to come. because really what good does it do me to whine and complain? i got better things to do!

  14. Anonymous
    Posted February 21, 2009 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    I think a large part of the irritation people feel is the not-knowing. Personally, I’m over it – I lost the energy to care while waiting for AFFC, and the quality of that did not revivify it for me. Now I’ll buy all the remaining books, and I hope they’ll be wonderful, and I’ll watch the series if it gets made – but I’m no longer buzzing with anticipation.

    But for those who are, and looking back at me: I think a large part is the not-knowing. If he had simply said in 2000 “OK, ASOIAF is on hiatus while I work on other projects, the next book will be published in 2010 [As I'm 90% sure ADWD will be], sorry about the wait,” I would have briefly screamed in annoyance, and then I would have gone away and done something else for ten years while I was waiting. I picked up Runes of the Earth, after all, and that was 25 years after the first of the series came out (no, I’m not so old as to have waited the whole time).

    Instead, it’s been a continual “has he finished? when will he finish? will he finish? is he trying to finish?”, which kept me on edge for ages.

    ————–

    I also think (please don’t kill me) that he’s being petulant. I don’t begrudge him holidays and hobbies – but I do hope for professionalism. If I were working on ten different side-projects at my desk each day, I’m fairly sure my boss would not be happy with me. Asking him to finish his contracted book and THEN go editing his own anthologies is not asking for any more obsessive dedication than the rest of us have to employ to be employed.

    Now, of course artists aren’t all professional – sometimes they can’t be, sometimes they refuse to be. That’s not necessarily a bad thing – but it takes away a defence. That is, we have a right to hold them to the same standards as everybody else, and if they please us sufficiently we may waive that right and say “oh, ok, be like that if it means you make good books”. I can understand why people are willing to say that for George – I think I am even, or would be if he were more up-front about it – but I don’t think he’s got much right to be upset when people don’t give him that indulgence. The indulgence we give to artists is in our gift, not their birthright.
    [Obviously it's rude to talk about him dying, though].

    Personally, despite being hugely ill-disciplined and unprofessional in my own artistic endeavours, I think we sometimes are overly generous to artists, with our “oh, but we can’t expect them to work like ordinary people, they’re ARTISTs,they need INSPIRATION” talk. Maybe this is a cultural thing. Take music. People these days like to listen to billionaires whining about their (pretend) private lives. My favourite composers are Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. They churned out music to schedule, because if they didn’t turn out good music when their employers demanded it, they didn’t eat that week. Still made good music.

    [I also think this on piracy issues. When I hear some modern billionaire musician complaining about how music piracy will make him poor (ie he'll only have 80% of the yachts and cocaine) (leaving aside the fact that this is untrue, as any economics textbook will explain), I instinctively think "well, MY guy made his living mostly as a piano teacher, went broke, and then got dumped in a plague pit when he died at 33, and he still made better music than you, so what are you complaining about???".]

    Hmm. I’m rambling. Sorry.

  15. Anonymous
    Posted February 21, 2009 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    Anyone who has read all four completed books must realize that this guy lost his inspiration after Book 3, and then it became a job. The fourth book falls so very short of the first three that it is painfully obvious the author did this one for the payday, and will now only reluctantly complete a series he has lost his fire for. The first three books flowed out of him like a landslide that had to get free. The rest of the story will be the fulfillment of a contractual obligation. Sad. And now we have to read the authors petulant whining. Track back through his “not-a-blog” and estimate for yourself how much time this guy spends fervently seeking out fan adoration and sympathy and selling old books and trinkets most fans care little about. He has become the SCiFi/Fantasy author equivalent of Britney Spears. Once the fame and popularity reached a certain level, he thought it would be enough just to be him, and just spend his time filling us in on the details of his daily life like some pathetic reality show. His agent needs to gather Stephen King, JK Rowling, and Goodkind together for a little intervention meeting to ween him off his addiction and love of direct fan praise and explain to him that the only reason we care to begin with is the product he has ceased to put out. I make no apologies for my digust. Watching something great die a slow and painful death is unpleasant. His whiney posting was an appeal for sympathy, nothing more. He loves it.

  16. Anonymous
    Posted February 21, 2009 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    If you have not heard the audiobook version of the series, it is fantastic. You can buy a downloadable version at audible.com. The actor doing the dramatization, Roy Doltrice, is so good, and his “portrayal” of each character is so perfect, that it is hard to imagine the characters any other way after listening. This might be a good way for some of you to satisfy your ASOIAF jones until the next book arrives. Try it. I doubt that whatever HBO ends up putting out will even come close to being this good.

  17. stratomunchkin
    Posted February 21, 2009 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    Well, not wanting to buff the "age" line of the argument again, but if you want to have more of Roy Dotrice as an audiobook reader for ASOIAF, I'd give up those hopes. Roy's going to be _86_ this year.

    And for GRRM's health & weight, well I'm sorry, it's a valid point. He's an overweight guy past sixty with a love for tasty food (can't blame him for that, love to read the descriptions in the books, too) and a job and hobbies antithetical to physical exercise. Statistically spoken, he's a cardiac infarction in the making. I want him to finish the series. I want him to be healthy and have a nice life.

    Much of the bad blood that's been cooked up during the last half year however can be pinpointed to his lazyness with regards to updates. Nobody really expected him to post preview chapters, or be included into his creative processes. Point however is, deadlines passed by, deadlines we all naively had counted on – and there was no word from the master. Asking for a status update in such a situation is neither petulant nor is it joining the ranks of those mythical "detractors". It's something to be justifiably expected from a guy who's spending an ever increasing time with his blog.

  18. Anonymous
    Posted February 21, 2009 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    I don’t venture to say what are GRRM’s hidden thoughts, motives and intentions, and I doubt anyone else but himself -maybe not even him- can say that.

    I realise that the middle books in a series are most difficult. You have to start knotting peaces of threads together and stop little by little creating new ones, but you can’t be too rash with it. The first book(s) and the last book(s) are much more easier. So, after GRRM gets DwD finished, the rest will follow quicker – I hope – and they probably are even better quality than AFwC (and maybe DwD). I have my worries considering the series’ future, but I try to think other explanations than the worst ones.

    It is a possibility that GRRM has lost his enthusiasm for ASoIaF, but I wouldn’t declare it as a fact. At this point it still remains to be seen.

  19. Lordnedshead
    Posted February 21, 2009 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Lemme come to George’s defence a bit here. IMO Feast was not a drop off from the other four books. It was definately different and not as much of a roller-coaster perhaps, but there are some truly classic scenes in it. Maybe its just me, but the entire Brienne pov read like one of Chaucer’s Canturbury Tales. I loved every word of it. Also, the opening chapter in Dorne with “The blood oranges were overripe” is one of the most well-written chapters that I have ever had the privelidge to read.
    I’ve always maintained that it is unfair to compare Feast to the other books. Feast is only half of a book after all and it is definately at least half as good as the other books in the series. I say its very close to the others. Feast is missing the four most prominent characters in the series. Personaly alongside of Arya who has a bit of a diminished role in Feast as well, I care more about Jon Dany Bran and Tyrion than any of the other PoVs.
    As stated above Brienne was great. Cersei was a study in obssession for power. Her stuff is also well-written but she is definately not the most endearing character no matter where your house loyaties lie in the series. Jaime is getting more and more complex, but I still can’t quite manage to like him after his antics early in the series. Combine these povs with all the new stuff happening in Dorne and Oldtown and there is alot of newer content to get used to. Juxtapose that with the absence of the characters that made us love the series and you can see how Feast might look a bit weaker. Its not. Martin did not sell out with his last book. If anything he has managed to make the story even bigger and more complex (and still highly interesting and entertaining). While making the books better, the added perspectives and plot points are probably contributing to the difficulties GRRM is having with completing Dance.
    In fact the whole purpose for my earlier rant and kicking this all off was that he wqas taking too long to finish. If the just were just a sell-out don’t you think the series would be over by now. He may tend to get too much on his plate. He might obssessively piddle with each chapter until its flawless. But the one thing George shouldn’t be labeled as is a corner cutter.

  20. João Marcelo
    Posted February 21, 2009 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    I really dont know WHEN Dance is coming, but I do go to bed every night and say my prayers asking only for health for my son, my wife, my parents and GRRM…

    I want to believe on a september release, though :)

  21. wabawanga
    Posted February 21, 2009 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    @Lordnedisdead: What was lacking in AFFC was the excellent pacing of the previous books (not so much ASoS). This is mainly because the overarching narrative of the series has very little to do with the B-listers in Feast. The plot of the series is getting drowned in the boring, tangential details, just like virtually every other fantasy series. I disagree with your assessment that AFFC was not inferior.

  22. wabawanga
    Posted February 21, 2009 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

    To clarify my point: ASoIaF is still my favorite series ever. However, reading A Feast for Crows made me aware that GRRM is not immune to the many pitfalls of writing a ginormous high fantasy series. And, as a recent convert to HBO’s many excellent productions, I am hoping to God this series gets picked up!

  23. Rer
    Posted February 21, 2009 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

    It’s his story and his work. If he decides to take forever, then so be it. He is not entitled to finish the series (maybe with the publisher) and no one signed a contract ensuring the author would work only on one title just for you when you purchased the book.

    I like the series and I pray that it gets finished but I have no right to entitle myself to the completion of his work even if I purchased the book.

  24. SubTech Zero
    Posted February 22, 2009 at 12:15 am | Permalink

    Personally, I like the ” boring, tangential details” of epic fantasty.

    it’s why I read multi-volume, thousand page epics. i wouldn’t care if series like these went on for 18 books over a span of 40 years … as long as the author actually managed to complete his series.

    look, people’s worst fears were realized when tragedy struck Robert Jordan. it’s understandable people have this fear now, with GRRM. Personally, in the back of my mind, i’ve always felt that the final two books will be released closer together … its a feeling based on nothing, just a hunch i have, but there it is nonetheless.

    here’s my big problem with GRRM: i get the feeling that he isn’t writing every day. i am an unpublished, amateur writer, and I write every single day. even if it’s only a page. i have this vibe that george ain’t doing that … that days and days pass without him picking up the Work and setting up at the Keys.

  25. Anonymous
    Posted February 22, 2009 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    I’ve got to agree with many of the frustrated fans. There was a time when I grasped for the slightest information of DWD, but it’s been too long, and I no longer care. If it comes out, I’ll buy it, and probably really enjoy it, but it’s no longer something I’m eagerly anticipating. “The name of Wind” now holds that honor. I’m sure GRRM cares about the fans, but he’s an enterprise now, and puts his stamp everywhere these days. His energies are no longer dedicated to his books. I’m now more hopeful about the HBO series, simply because it seems that GRRM doesn’t have much to do with it, which means it’ll get done. GRRM, I love your work man, but “Tolkien of modern times” clearly isn’t in the cards. Watch your Jets and Giants, do your conventions, play with your action figures, edit your books, write your comics,make your money and do whatever makes you happy, but understand the effect it’s having on your fans.

  26. Anonymous
    Posted February 22, 2009 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    Seriously, you’ve waited almost a decade, you can wait a few months more. Let the guy have the space to finish the damned book without you breathing down his neck all the time. If I come across any errors in the finished book, you know who I’m going to blame.

    Most of the comments I see here are mainly the same petulant whining that so many have attributed to GRRM. Fuck off, guys, he’s got the right, especially with the big bloody number of idiots who make it their job to bash everything he does and an equal number of obsessives who keep sending him mail just to check if he’s well.

  27. Stark's Ghost
    Posted February 22, 2009 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    besides a few posts here (lordnedshead gave a couple very thought out posts, that were fair, and not attacking in anyway) some though, jesus people. Lay off his back. You call him whining? Its his private blog that he happens to let his fans read. Be thankful for that rather beat the man to death with your own whining. Because you lost the taste for the new book? I feel myself getting more excited and I have been a rabid fan for seven years. Better half of that decade you have been talking about.

    When I reread ASoIF, I get the most pleasure out of finding those amazing details in everybook, that George painstakingly puts in so we can go over every sentence and every description. It may take him 10 years to complete his work, but that just means I have 10 more years to reread 4 masterpeices. Try reading FFC over again. Most people who were dissapointed with feast, go back and read it, and Find that indeed its half a book, but the quality was enough make it more than just a half assed effort, but a novel maybe slightly behind his other materpeices, but leagues ahead of everyone else in the epic fantasy field.

    One other thing…Cersie is a b list character? are you fing serious? she lopped off Neds head!! Started the War! you think you are dissapointed? try Being a detroit lions fan.

  28. Sock
    Posted February 23, 2009 at 5:53 am | Permalink

    Joff was the one who had Ned’s shortened by a head, not Cersi. Cersi was going to send him to the Wall.

    As for the books… well. I will read it when it’s out, however long that takes. I just hope that he wont go the route of J.K. Rowling. She finished the last book, but it was clear (to me) that she didn’t even TRY. She just pinched it off, hiked up her panties and went to roll in her vast pile of money.

  29. Anonymous
    Posted February 23, 2009 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    On AFfC: it appears to be an acquired taste, but it does grow on you as you re-read it. I’d say it’s the best for re-reading.

    To use a bad analogy, the series is like surgery. AGoT opened up the chest cavity, ACoK and ASoS was fiddling with the plumbing, and AFfC (and probably ADwD) was stitching the plumbing back together. It’s not quite as interesting as slicing up the bits inside, but it’s necessary and underappreciated.

    P.S. The remaining books will be about the surgeons discovering that one scalpel is missing and having to open the patient up again. :D

  30. Anonymous
    Posted February 23, 2009 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Quoting the Anon 4 posts up: “If I come across any errors in the finished book, you know who I’m going to blame.”

    Let me get this straight. The guy can take a decade to write a book (since AFFC was technically half the book) and if there are any errors in it you’re going to blame the people who had the audacity to point out that a decade is quite a long time, and not the guy who couldn’t get it right with a decade to work? Talk about fandom…

    Look, it’ll be done when its done, and a lot of us have ourselves to blame for the frustration brought on by getting so attached to the deadlines and the hoping and praying and never ending checking the updates. But I think we all have a right to start questioning what the hell is taking so long, and if we want to blow steam on a message board somewhere, I think we can all agree we have a legitimate grievance.

  31. dizzy
    Posted February 23, 2009 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    In GRRM’s thank you blog he mentions corresponding with “people’ about the HBO pilot. I think that’s the first scrap in a while that says things are moving on the show.

  32. Lordnedshead
    Posted February 23, 2009 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    lol I noticed that too. Thanks Dizzy for getting the discussion in this thread back on topic. I’ve noticed Winter has been pretty quiet on this thread. Apologies if I hijiacked it a bit bro. And kudos for not breaking out the censor stick.

  33. Anonymous
    Posted February 25, 2009 at 1:23 am | Permalink

    Um. Am I the only one who enjoys the wait? I kind of like that I get one only every now and then. Ratchets up the anticipation. Which is fun.

  34. Eric The Red
    Posted February 25, 2009 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    I too am excited to read the next installment, but I am not going to say GRRM “owes” me anything. Come on people this is art and your impatience is not part of the process. You haven’t commissioned this work like some medieval duke and it will be better for it.

    I look at an artist’s past work and think my life has been better for experiencing it and I may well see that same uplift in the future. Or I may not. Be glad for what you’ve already read or heard or watched.

    Case in point, Loreena McKennitt lost her fiance in a boating accident and perhaps for that reason and others quit performing and recording. A great loss? Yes for her, I still had the old music to listen to and I appreciated it enough to put her life in proper perspective.

    If GRRM decides something else is more important than slapping out a work he’s not happy with then that’s his business. I don’t want to read anything that he feels wasn’t finished to his satisfaction.

    Loreena has resumed touring and recording and I got to see her at the Paramount Theater in Denver. Five rows back and directly in front of her. I was thrilled to see her and delighted that she was able to weather her storms.

  35. world-dancer
    Posted February 26, 2009 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    I agree with SubTech:

    People are overly worried after seeing Robert Jordan die in the middle of a series. So they worry about GRRM. And while I can understand him being creeped out by people going “yeah, don’t die until you finish it,” what else are we supposed to think? I wish him well, always have, but I don’t feel a personal connection with him. I’ll feel bad about things when he passes, but right now, he’s alive. So, like a child being read to by my grandfather, my only question is “So what happens next? You can’t leave yet, you haven’t told me what happens next.”

    I also think SubTech is right about the writing. From passing by GRRM’s blogs, I don’t get the impression he’s putting much work into writing right now. I get the impression he’s more interested in cons and meeting people. It’s great that he’s a personable man with interests outside his fantasy world. But I work a 40 hour week (add 10 hours for commuting) and then come home and write 5-7k words each week on top of my social obligations. (Been doing so since January, so trying to see if I can keep it up). The self-discipline is hard. And I think GRRM’s is slipping and that that, rather than quality control, is a major part of the delay.

  36. catchmytears
    Posted February 26, 2009 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    For all of those who say GRRM is not dedicated, not interested in ASOIAF anymore and isn’t putting his nose to the grindstone… Well, I can hardly claim an intimate relationship with Mr. Martin, but I have heard that he is very resistant to posting about ASOIAF on his blog because it arouses more dissent than not.

    Personally, I’d rather he spend his time working on the actual books than coddling me, telling me how many pages he has to go, or what exactly he’s working on, etc. And so what if he doesn’t work on it EVERY day? What if he writes 80 hours one week and then hardly any the next? It’s not all black and white. He says he’s bloodying his face on the keyboard regularly, that’s enough for me. And to those of you with “hunches,” intuition is a tricky thing. I suspect it’s more of a fear than any insight into what George is doing. And I don’t think it’s George’s responsibility to soothe your fears. He is not your mother.

    I am also of the opinion that GRRM doesn’t owe us anything. If anything, he might owe it to his publishers. Maybe, I haven’t seen any contracts between them. In my mind, he has every right to quit his job, just like the rest of us. AND heaven forbid he even has the right to die without us screaming down his neck for leaving our beloved series unfinished. HE would be dead and we’re throwing a piss party because we didn’t get our favorite toy as planned? Please.

    I apologize for derailing the point of this post, but I had to vent.

  37. WinterIsComing
    Posted February 26, 2009 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    I don’t mind the off-topic discussion. Especially on a topic such as this, with folks that have strong opinions on both sides. Some very good and well-thought out posts on here. I guess I have very intelligent readers. :)

  38. Anonymous
    Posted February 26, 2009 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    You know, I think if ADWD could be published around the same time as HBO is making a decision about the pilot it would be absolutely fantastic! Why? I think ADWD is going to be flying off the shelves when it’s released and this would make HBO’s decision to go ahead with the series much easier. Then, once the series gets started people who have not read the books will seek them out and then things will really start rollin’. I think there will be some nice momentum there:)

  39. Anonymous
    Posted February 26, 2009 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think so, because I am not the only one that refuses to bow to the ridiculous current publishing format and buy hardcover copies of all new releases.

    Everyone knows that the biggest sales are through regular old paperbacks, and that means it will be a year or so after initial release that the money and sale numbers really start to roll in.

  40. Adam Whitehead
    Posted February 27, 2009 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    “Everyone knows that the biggest sales are through regular old paperbacks, and that means it will be a year or so after initial release that the money and sale numbers really start to roll in.”

    Whilst this is true, the profit that the author and the publisher make on the hardcover is significantly more than on the paperback, which is why they keep the hardcover going as long as possible (and irritatingly on ASoIaF, they sometimes don’t release the paperback in the USA until 18 months after the hardback).

    AFFC completely sold out of its 400,000-copy hardcover printing run. The print run for ADWD is apparently going to be significantly bigger.

  41. Anonymous
    Posted June 14, 2009 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    i'm kinda shocked that people can be so selfish and jump to conclusions about how an author lives HIS life. would anyone here care to be told to "get back to work" when they've reached the age when most people have, or are preparing to, retire? seriously. the man has a right to enjoy his life.

    futhermore, i don't think a lot of people understand or appreciate the amount of work required for an undertaking of this magnitude. most of the best authors i've read have admitted to completely re-writing books, seven or eight times over 'till it was right. i also understand, as a musician and aspiring author myself, that the creative process can't be forced, and it's spending time AWAY from a project that one has invested a lot of time and energy into that can give someone the objectivity to make progress upon returning to work. just because he doesn't spend all day at the keyboard does not mean he's not making progress.

    it's ironic that all the people who've been saying that they hope he finishes the series before he dies are probably contributing to that very thing by giving the man more s*** to worry about.

    i love the series as much as anyone else. i feel privileged to have had the opportunity to read such a wonderful work of imaginative fiction. however, my life and happiness will not hinge on whether or not a series is finished. there are many other great works of fiction to explore. i can't even find the time to read all of the books i've collected over the years.

  42. Roy Dixon
    Posted July 26, 2009 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Jeezus… I have visions of the Pope sitting on the floor of the Sistine Chapel yelling "WTF, Mike, Finish my goddam ceiling by the day after tomorrow or I'll have someone else come in and do it for you!"

    Why should GRRM have to live up to our expectations on any count. He is an artist, let him create. I have a feeling that he was pushed so hard by fans and publisher to produce "Feast" that he has dug in his heels and won't be pushed again. I don't think he is worrying about anything but the continuity and quality of the series.

    We have countless authors, churning out endless chapters of epic drivel… but we only have one GRRM. If he wants to take a nap or go fishing or watch a frickin' movie then I, for one, hope he has a good time.


  • Recent Comments

  • Archives

    • 2014 (756)
    • 2013 (679)
    • 2012 (550)
    • 2011 (512)
    • 2010 (309)
    • 2009 (174)
    • 2008 (47)
  •