Back when the Thrones pilot was first ordered, it was mentioned that there were about 10 other pilots in the pipeline at HBO and only about 5-6 would be picked up. Looking over the list, there looked to be two pilots that would be in direct competition with Thrones. David Simon’s Treme, about musicians in post-Katrina New Orleans, and Martin Scorsese’s Boardwalk Empire, about gangsters in 1920′s Atlantic City.
Treme was already picked up by HBO and is set to debut in April 2010. Boardwalk Empire has completed filming the pilot and sounds like it is very close to getting a series order. The potential series would begin filming in Sept. with what I imagine would be a fall 2010 air date in mind.
That means that if we want to see Thrones on air, we have to hope HBO is willing to spend the money on all three of these dramas. It is certainly not without precedent that HBO would be willing to have three big dramas on air at once. The Sopranos, The Wire, and Rome were all airing at the same time at one point. And certainly it seems that with the casting going the way it is, HBO is committed to putting out a quality product. There are reports that they are excited about the project. Still one has to wonder, if HBO were to drop one of the three projects, even if strictly for financial reasons, which do you think it would be?
Is there room for three great dramas at HBO? We better hope so.
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186 Comments
I'm certainly looking forward to Treme. HBO appears to be on a rampage to prove that its better than Showtime, which has been closing the gap with some pretty good shows of its own.
CajunmanQuote Reply
Obviously some people are going to really want to see Treme, espeically those who went through it. Not sure it would really have worldwide appeal though, as I can't say it interests me at all. With HBO looking to do the worldwide expansion thing, one could make a case for Treme being the one to drop in the future.
Alternatively, being that the GoT pilot is filming later than these others, it may end up getting bounced back a year or something to see how the other shows do before a decision is made on a full season pick up.
I'm guessing on the whole here btw, I have no idea how american tv studios really think.
LegionQuote Reply
fingers crossed here….but I think someone like Brude can give us a more expert view about three great dramas all aired at same time
Quiet WolfQuote Reply
I think the issue is can HBO sustain three NEW great dramas because HBO already has Big Love and True Blood, two shows which have been successful for them and show no sign of concluding before 2011 (when we expect GoT to air). So that would be 5 dramas for HBO.
I don't know how this would play out as far as costs are concerned, but they could certainly fit this on their schedule…Sunday night is their classic original programming night. If you take into account that the average season for an HBO drama is 12 episodes, each show requires about a 3 month run. With the 9 and 10 pm time slots, HBO could realistically accommadate 8 dramas. Factor in half hour comedies though and HBO could accommodate 5 dramas and 6 comedies and still maintain their Sunday night programming straight though the year.
DanQuote Reply
Dan: True. I didn't even think to mention the dramas they are currently airing.
Time TV critic James Poniewozik tweeted in response to my post saying that during the mid '00s, HBO had 5 dramas on air at once. So even that is not without precedent.
WinterIsComingQuote Reply
You had Deadwood, Sopranos, Rome and The Wire all running simultaneously at one point actually.
HBO has the money…don't doubt it. And if they think they have a lineup that can increase subscribers, they will go into the red to test it out. HBO isn't known for not taking risks. They are known for canceling shows after only one season. That's the real question and my real fear here. Am I going to only see one season of this AMAZING series come to life???
I think our ace-in-the-hole is word of mouth. Since the announcement of a Game of Thrones pilot, comments have been popping up all over the internet, from message boards to television review sites. If HBO's numbers actually increase with the arrival of A Game of Thrones(which it will) you'll see them immediately start heavily advertising it, just like they did Sopranos and Deadwood.
Keep telling people.
Garrett GabehartQuote Reply
I think the biggest advantage that A Game of Thrones has is that it already has a very solid and committed fanbase. Also, the books themselves are very different from typical fantasy and I've seen people reading them who tell me they hate fantasy, so I think even people who aren't fans might tune in if there's enough hype going around. (My sister works at a cable company and she's sworn to me (since they get tons of promotional posters) that the second she sees a poster that says 'Winter Is Coming' she'll nab it for me. (Because what else would the slogan be???))
wenderricQuote Reply
I don't think HBO would be allowing GoT to be going on like it is without being serious about it. If they knew they wouldn't be picked up, I don't think we'd be where we are at right now, with the cast and crew we have now. I think we have just as fair a chance as any other show has.
Another thing to consider, is that GoT is already gaining a huge amount of anticipation. I think the buzz for this show is going to dwarf both Treme and Boardwalk Empire, combined. Treme is anticipated because David Simon is amazing, and the Wire was amazing. But compared to their other successful shows, The Wire never was a "huge hit." Boardwalk Empire will be anticipated because of Martin Scorsese…
But when GoT gets picked up, and word-of-mouth starts spreading… and then once it starts advertising… I think the buzz is going to be immense, not just in the US but around the world. aSoIaF is very successful and adored on an international level.
The ChrisQuote Reply
Like you said Winter, they did it at one time with The Sopranos, The Wire and Rome so why couldn't it happen again?
And there's some similarities here … Boardwalk Empire sounds like The Sopranos set in the '20s, Treme is another David Simon labour of love, and AGOT is a little like Rome, the more fantastical show of the bunch.
Plus, given existing fan base (which, if this blog is any indication, seems to just keep growing and growing), then there's a very good chance that AGOT will turn out to be the most popular of them all.
Who knows? Maybe Boardwalk Empire will flop … aren't people bound to get tired of gangster shows at some point? And maybe Treme will have trouble attracting a wider audience given that Katrina is such a touchy subject.
I think AGOT has the chance to be just the right show at the right time. Quality fantasy is a completely untapped genre in television right now with a potentially huge fan base around the world. HBO can really capitalize on that and I think they know it.
dholdsQuote Reply
Ditch the sissy sounding thing about Katrina and musicians.
robertQuote Reply
@ Wenderric
Indeed. We ARE DAMN COMMITTED. hehe I think the Game of Thrones fans may just have the numbers to bring at least a 30% spike in their subscribers. if not 50%. I hop ethey decide to release it world wide-ish so they don't lose money on the downloads…
JaimeeQuote Reply
@Garrett Gabehart: What shows has HBO cancelled only after one season? In recent history I can only think of one, John from Cincinnati and that was universally acknowledged as an awful awful show.
DanQuote Reply
seems like Carnival was only one season, but I could be wrong..
JaimeeQuote Reply
Another wild card is the BBC involvement….there taking on part of the cost…that's gotta help ….I wonder if it's 50/50 split and is it only HBO decision ….what if BBC backed out ?….is it solely an HBO decision to proceed ?
coltaine777Quote Reply
Carnival had two seasons, as did Rome. Keeping in mind that this is ultimately a business I usually don't begrudge any network that gives a show two full seasons to find an argument before making the financial decision that the costs of a show aren't worth keeping it in the air.
Rome is actually an exception, where HBO has admitted that it made a mistake in its cost and popularity analysis in its decision to cancel
DanQuote Reply
Well, let's not forget that fans have been able to convince networks to bring back programs after they've been canceled before.
Hell, if they managed to convince Fox to bring back a show as terrible as Family Guy, I'm sure we won't run into trouble with A Game of Thrones!
dholdsQuote Reply
As someone from New Orleans, I hope if they drop a show it's Treme. I'm tired of hearing about Katrina all of the time. It's time to move on.
MattQuote Reply
@Matt – outside of New Orleans, I think you'd be surprised how little we hear about Katrina. And I bet that's one of David Simon's goals with Treme – to help people move on.
dholdsQuote Reply
Treme is likely to have a much smaller budget than either GoT or Boardwalk Empire. The Wire had a relatively small budget, which is a big part of why they were willing to let it go for 5 full seasons despite very lackluster ratings (the other being they knew they were making great art with that show). I think HBO also realizes that to make money on Treme, they don't really need to worry about its ratings, if the show is good, because – like The Wire – it will find it's audience in DVD sales and sales to other, foreign networks like the BBC. Odds are that due to the late DVD and rerun success of The Wire, as well as that show's international popularity, Treme will get good ratings from those fans hoping for "The Wire 2" (if you will).
I can't say what the budget or response to Boardwalk Empire will be – has Scorsese done a TV show yet? – but interest will be very high to start, certainly, just because of the talents involved. High ratings at first, for sure, but the qualities of the show will determine if it lasts.
What HBO wants is for shows to get new viewers to buy subscriptions, which is mainly what these shows are about. I think it's possible we will see a sharp spike in subscriptions before each of these shows first airs, as people get excited for them and start spending a bit more for their cable. Ratings are more about retention of subscribers, so high ratings translates to people not willing to give up their HBO subscription – which is good, too.
I wonder if their ratings tell them what the crossover viewership between the shows will be. That would be useful data, too.
What shows has HBO cancelled only after one season? In recent history I can only think of one, John from Cincinnati and that was universally acknowledged as an awful awful show.
Not universally, not even close. JfC had a solid, if small fan base, the problem was that for too many people it was too obscure, too 'out there' and strange, and frankly above most peoples' heads. I watched it through twice and loved it. For the first few episodes, I kind of wasn't too sure, but it was holding my interest. After a certain point (the barbecue episode), the thrust and purpose of the show started to gel and I realized I was watching something really special. The dialogue is probably the best I have heard in any film, tv show or play by a living writer – David Milch is simply a genius. Unfortunately for the show, it did not have fans among the powers-that-be at HBO, so it was canceled. But it was a great, GREAT show.
BrudeQuote Reply
@Brude – Fair enough, I'll retract my JfC statement of universally hated as a hyperbole. However, in general it was not well received critically. That being said, I personally found it to be dull and pretentious.
Not to get too far off topic, my point is, with the rare exception, HBO is quicker to give most shows a chance that it is to pull the plug only after one season.
DanQuote Reply
Canceling all those dramas prematurely is what got HBO in it's current predicament in the first place, let's hope they've learned something.
Another thing to consider is outside of Treme it's highly likely the other two shows won't be returning on a yearly basis: Thrones' production will expand with every season; 'Boardwalk' actors (Buscemi, Pitt, Shannon, MacDonald) will have their side projects, not to mention Scorsese himself depending on his actual involvement. There could be as much as 1.5 – 2 years delay between seasons; plenty of room to keep a (few) extra show(s) in rotation – providing they can afford it ofcourse.
GraegorQuote Reply
Well considering that GoT will most likely air January-March 2011 it should fit in HBO's schedule just fine.It does have a bit of an advantage airing after the rest of the shows because if one of them fails before GoT airs then it has less competition.
But i would imagine that GoT will have the biggest draw mainly due to its fan base and so far its fairly big name cast as 3 of its actors are probably recognizable by Americans and 5 actors in the UK (maybe, I'm an American).
As for the other shows, BE will bring people in just because of Scorsese. Though I do admit I think sounds great I will definitely watch. Treme will probably mainly just bring in people who like The Wire as people tend not to really like Katrina shows (like K-Ville that failed miserably even though it wasnt that bad). Though I am a fan The Wire I really not interested in Treme which I'm sure there are Wire fan who feel the same. Then of course there is still Big Love which barely brings in enough viewers to stay on the air so that could be gone by 2011. As for True Blood, at the rate its going it could last for 9 seasons if they keep following the books and Charlaine Harris keeps writing them on a yearly basis.
SavageQuote Reply
@Winter
Why didn't you include Last of the Ninth on the list of dramas competing for spots? Just curious.
izakmoQuote Reply
Why didn't you include Last of the Ninth on the list of dramas competing for spots?
HBO has already passed on that one.
GraegorQuote Reply
Tv is changing, dvd sales are now massive and we're now at a point where a top hbo show with a hardcore fan base can almost cover the costs of production with dvd sales alone.
True blood season 1 was released a couple months back and it's already sold over a million copies in the USA alone. Generating around $50M, obviously that's not all going to HBO.
These are the kind of sales you'd expect for AGOT too. A simmilar hardcore internet fanbase.
In fact all the best selling dvd series are for shows like True blood, lost, Heroes.
The biggest selling films on dvd cover things like LoTR, Harry potter, spider-man films.
Fantasy/sci-fi/comic stuff with hardcore fanbases are the leading dvd sellers.
It will likely be the DVD sales of a series like GoT that really matters. Another strong point for this series is it's strong international market from the book series. Things like true blood have not matched their American success and exposure in many other countries.
AGoT will also be shown prime time on bbc in britain and not some obscure cable channel like true blood and many other highly regarded shows.
All in all I expect the show to have huge DVD sales internationally and in America but probably not have groundbreaking viewing figures.
DekuQuote Reply
Also about DVD sales. Sopranos dvd sales actually pale in comparison to true blood.
I think shows like treme and Boardwalk empire are likely to get the same kind of sales as the sopranos.
Another point that will illustrate how important DVD sales are now. The pacific has a reported budget of $250m(almost as much as the LotR trilogy). Apparently the entire budget or the majority of it was generated from the dvd sales of Band of Brothers alone.
DekuQuote Reply
DVD sales are very important these days, but to get to dvd sales you ahve to produce and make a decent show. If HBO stinge out on costs because they have alot going on, even a great story can be destroyed by terrible visual effects or bad costume/set design
LegionQuote Reply
@Legion – but given the track record of who they've hired on for costumes and sets as well as the fact that their studio (the Paint Hall) is free, it doesn't look like HBO's going to be cutting corners on AGOT.
All the signs so far are indicating that this will be a top notch production.
dholdsQuote Reply
As much as I love David Simon Treme sounds boring as shit. I have no interest in it at all.
svenQuote Reply
@sven
"As much as I love David Simon Treme sounds boring as shit. I have no interest in it at all."
/agreed
RerQuote Reply
Leets us not forget though, that a pilot is not a full season……
I'm just feeling pessimistic today :P
LegionQuote Reply
@Legion: I don't know how feasible it's going to be for them to delay the filming and/or airing of GOT, considering how many young actors are going to be involved.
wabawangaQuote Reply
Deku: Great point about the DVD sales. I too suspect that the DVD sales for Thrones would be substantial. Also, it is encouraging that HBO seems to have learned their lesson with regards to canceling a show before factoring in DVD sales (see Rome).
WinterIsComingQuote Reply
Hmmm very very good points. It must be said though that there are a fair nuber of people that do both, subscribe and buy the dvd. I for one absolutely love the ones with the featurettes about the the process. I eat up every special feature. I hope the put some effort into the special feature package. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the amazing fan art set to music or the incredible feat of the building of the kingdoms, or the realm as it were. I like to see the whole process. Perhaps even a commentary with GRRM on the movie. I know I'm way ahead of myself, so let me reign it back in. I am just saying that I look forward to the dvd release as well as the show on the air. I'll be tuned in every week and I'll be at the store the very tuesday it comes out on DVD. What about you folks? You too?
JaimeeQuote Reply
I'll watch TREME because it's Simon who hasn't steered us wrong yet (remember he did GENERATION KILL, THE CORNER and HOMICIDE as well as THE WIRE) and because it's got Freamon and The Bunk in it as jazz musicians, which makes it automatically cool.
But yeah, HBO can keep these two, TRUE BLOOD and their other show son the air simultaneously. They wouldn't be filming the pilot if they couldn't. They've also said that the recession has not adversely affected them at all, with no major drops in subscriptions. Also, whilst GoT will likely be more expensive than TREME and maybe BWE (although I wouldn't be too sure about that), they are getting exceptional value for money, which they noticeably weren't by filming ROME in Rome.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Jaimee: Certainly. As unofficial leader of the Game of Thrones fan club I feel it is my duty to consume this show the minute it is released, no matter the medium. :)
I would love some commentary from GRRM, Benioff and Weiss. Also would love to see some of these audition videos. With the raves Harington and Addy were both getting, it would be interesting to see them on the DVD.
WinterIsComingQuote Reply
I'll have to download it I'm afraid, 'cause I live in Norway and I can't be asked to wait for another year or more before I can get the dvd. If only HULU (or something like it) accepted connections from other countries. I'll most definately buy it the second the dvd is released though; that day will be a happy day for me :)
rtm1981Quote Reply
As much as HBO can have more than 3 Drama's at the time.. They also run the shows at 3 month quarters to the year.. So they can stagger out a major amount of their shows across a year and not have everything overlapped as they do now… I can see them trying to fit AGoT in their late summer/schedule and have Treme in early winter to mid-spring but then again they get to make their own choices.
AnonymousQuote Reply
Unfortunately a lot of TV show box sets dont have much more than a commentary here and there. Lucky for us, looking at my Rome box sets, HBO shoved a huge amount of extra stuff on there, so with the GoT one, maybe we'll get loads……when it comes out in like 2years!
LegionQuote Reply
New fun question: Assuming that all 5 shows do make the schedule (and lets say any of hte current comedies as well) what would be the best show for HBO to pair GoT withs on a Sunday night.
My initial feeling is of course True Blood because of the shared fantasy aspect. But Big Love makes some sense to me as well being a show about family and political intrigue on a somewhat complex level. BE possible as well…
DanQuote Reply
What shows has HBO cancelled only after one season? In recent history I can only think of one, John from Cincinnati and that was universally acknowledged as an awful awful show.
Tell Me That You Love Me got canceled after only one season.
Assuming that all 5 shows do make the schedule (and lets say any of hte current comedies as well) what would be the best show for HBO to pair GoT withs on a Sunday night.
I'd assume True Blood would be the natural fit, but I'd prefer to see Boardwalk Empire as I believe it will be a classic (mob stuff always seems to do well).
furreverQuote Reply
Big Love is so damn funny for how serious the issues are. I have a bunch of Mormons around where I live so I get a huge kick out of that show. Polygamy, it sounded like a good idea at the time. LMFAO! I hope they keep it around for awhile longer. It would be cool to see it on the same night as GoT because it would be so opposite yet so similar.
JaimeeQuote Reply
Dan: I would say True Blood is the obvious choice. Big Love may have some thematic similarities to Thrones, but genre wise it is pretty different. I can't imagine many Big Love viewers being interested in Thrones' medieval fantasy setting.
Game of Thrones is right in the wheelhouse of the majority of True Blood viewers (read geeks). Also it has the ratings that would make for a good lead-in.
WinterIsComingQuote Reply
@WIC
True, so very true.
Boradwalk Emire could very well pull some of the history buff types over to the fantasy genre if nothing else to see the magnificant sets and as we all know, one sniff of GoT and you wanna eat up the whole cake.
JaimeeQuote Reply
@WiC – I don't necessarily disagree and you're probably right, but I do wonder if the audience that likes True Blood will tune into GoT regardless(this is far from a sure thing), might GoT get a benefit from being paired with Big Love instead because it would draw in viewers who would appreciate it, but wouldn't be intially drawn to watch based on the premise alone.
Remember, since HBO staggers its programming during different times of the yaer, its not just a matter of it being on HBO on the same NIGHT as the show its being paired with, rather its a matter of being paired with that draws the audience who is paying attention to HBO during that time of the year.
Just a thought…
DanQuote Reply
HBO can use Game of Thrones to cement their fiction base. True Blood pretty much covers contemporary fantasy, and Game of Thrones has dark fantasy down pat. HBO has said before that True Blood is a summer series, and I can't think of a better winter series than Game of Thrones.
While I'm pretty sure I can catch Game of Thrones on the BBC when it's broadcast, I'll probably be downloading it. But I'll buy the DVD/Blu-rays guaranteed, even if it turns out a badly, like Legend of the Seeker (although HBOs standards pretty much make that impossible).
You hear me HBO? You already have my money. *waves euros around*
SparqQuote Reply
A 9:00 or 10:00 Sunday time-slot sounds about right to me.
dholdsQuote Reply
I do not foresee a problem. With the cast so far for the first season bringing in huge excitement and people like me who will actually be willing to pay HBO subscription just for this show and a whole huge fan base from the books that as far as i know far exceeds the original fan base true blood had with their book series, i cannot see why HBO would not pick it up just for the large amount of subscribers they will hope to hook with this show as well as others.(i mean if i pay for HBO i may as well watch other things)
honestly i think they will be given a season to try, and assumiong the writers don't screw it up i can forsee it becoming what true blood is and surpassing it.
AlonQuote Reply
Yeah, I can see them airing GOT in the same time slot as True Blood immediately following the season finale. So, True Blood in the Summer, GOT in the Fall. That way, when TB fans run are looking for something to fill their Sunday nights with, they'll have a show right up their alley ready to go. I'd assume they'd be running promos for GOT throughout the season of True Blood as well, to generate anticipation.
wabawangaQuote Reply
I think if it is paired with any show on HBO, there is a really good chance that MOST of the the viewers will at least give Thrones a chance.
I would argue that the fantasy elements seems to coincide with True Blood… however, towards the beginning, GoT is really much more of a historical period style than a true fantasy style.
I think that Thrones really has the potential to bridge a lot of different types of viewers, and it will all depend on how its marketed. There's some fantasy elements, lots of medieval elements, lots of drama and intrigue, lots of mystery and who-dun-its, lots of violence and sex, awesome characters and use of those characters to move along a really captivating story. I think if it is done right and marketed right, it could really attract a wide array of viewers.
The ChrisQuote Reply
'Thrones' has the fact that none of the other shows are direct competitors in terms of genre going for it. If HBO is trying to tap into the LOTR style fantasy market, then i seriously doubt whether the other show possibilities currently discussed will effect whether 'Thrones' is shown.
I fully expect them to go ahead with at least the first season. Then they will most likely evaluate whether its worth continuing to tap into the market. I feel that with Thrones they are testing how profitable the market associated with it could be, which lends me to believe (particularly with the cast we have so far) that they won't scrap the show pre-first season.
I could be wrong, but i'm confident i'm not.
Ser_not_appearingQuote Reply
While it might be a great show, Treme is going to have an extremely limited appeal. I can't imagine it going far. Musicians in New Orleans after Katrina? I'd rather change the bandages on my grandmother's bedsores than watch that show. :oP Bring on Game of Thrones!
AnachroniteQuote Reply
I think Benioff, Weiss and GRRM have all said at various times that the show's tagline will likely be, "Winter is Coming," (hence, you know, the name of the blog ;) ), so I imagine that it will air in the winter, most likely January 2011. That means they can't pair it with TRUE BLOOD, which airs in the summer.
As for TREME, it's by The Simon. It could be about paint-stripping in Cleveland and I'll still watch it. I missed out on THE WIRE whilst it was on-air as I kept saying, "Cops versus drug dealers? No thanks." Then I caught it and realised it was genius ;-)
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Adam, I think it would make more sense if they aired it in the Fall and fits the tagline better
BoQuote Reply
Maybe we need to seek more info about pilots with great cast that had't been picked. I don't think it has happened, but maybe I'm wrong. Does anyone know of any case such as this?
ninamarthQuote Reply
Also, it is encouraging that HBO seems to have learned their lesson with regards to canceling a show before factoring in DVD sales (see Rome)
——————————–
This has happened to every network. The whole economics of a tv show has changed dramatically over the last decade. Before the only thing that mattered was how much you got for 10 secs of advertising space or on a premium cable channel how much money from subscribers.
Selling series on vhs didn't always happen and the kind of money generated was practically nothing.
The dvd market has been growing at an insane speed for tv series and still is growing. When you get to a point where shows like Band of brothers and true blood can cover the costs of production from dvd sales alone then that's huge. It means that in theory a network like HBO can have a limitless amount of shows running at one time since they're not constrained by one overhanging budget.
Thrones is a show that will be right at the forefront of the dvd revolution, ready to capitalise on the growing market. It's perfectly set up to do so.
This is the one large advantage it has over shows like treme and boardwalk empire. Both may be hugely critically acclaimed and win lots of emmys but they're not the kind of shows that break dvd sales records.
Thrones is. If the show is good it's sales will be comparible with true blood and heroes season 1 as the best selling tv series of all time.
True blood season 1 isn't even that highly regarded. It's generally seen as dirty and sleazy and the first season was often criticized for being a bit directionless and messy. I liked it though, but it's not great. Even without the top tier acclaim it managed the huge sales. All because of it's hardcore geeky fanbase nature.
DekuQuote Reply
As for a lead-in. HBO have never really matched up shows thematically before.
I know 2 of the biggest debuts on HBO were Carnivale and Deadwood, both around 5m. The lead ins for them were sex and the city, and the sopranos.
DekuQuote Reply
You've also got to consider that True Blood has a massive female audience, from what I've seen.
Cristiano BernardiniQuote Reply
Yeah, the vampire/twilight urban fantasy crowd. Its pretty big right now.
Ser not appearingQuote Reply
Heh, I think people are way overestimating the "geeky" audience. True Blood doesn't do well because it's geeky, True Blood does well because it's sexy.
Hell, LOTR or HP didn't sell a hundred thousand billion DVDs because it was "nerdy." It sold that many because the general public leaped onto it, not just the nerds. (I do agree that the "geeky" crowd buys more DVDs, but they are a small bunch)
It's not going to be the male audience that makes or breaks this show, it's going to be the female audience. So I really hope they keep that in mind when they write Catelyn, Sansa, etc.
AnonymousQuote Reply
Way too many shows i really like seem to be being cancelled despite massive fan bases atm, rome, reaper, my name is earl, veronica mars. although GOT is not really like any of these shows, the fact is i seem to spend most of my time these days being disappointed by premature cancellations, i am really really REALLY hoping this doesn't end up in the same boat!
AnonymousQuote Reply
I think we can definitely count on women representing a large portion of the audience for AGOT. The female fan base for ASOAIF seems to be a lot bigger than for most other fantasy series. I know I've recommend the books to a few women (my mom included!) and they've all loved them.
And if this blog is any indication, there's a whole lot of women that are excited for the show.
I'll leave it to Rer to compose a list of the most popular…
dholdsQuote Reply
I think a lot of women will be intensely disappointed by SPOILER the death of Ned, and in general the deaths of liked characters. I wonder if people can really handle the amount of protagonist death in GOT. Especially if Bean becomes a fan favorite. Addy may be pretty likeable as well. I think GOT may be difficult for the average person to handle, emotionally. Which may translate to notoriety and poor viewership. (reviews saying "too bloody and tragic", etc.) I worry about that. I think it will have to be delicately handled.
seymourQuote Reply
Casting news (sort of): actress Natalie Victoria, long hoping for a role on GoT, was informed today: "Dany is cast – they will announce in a few weeks." (via Twitter)
"A few weeks" is a while. Might not be one of the surprises our happy hopping frog is ready to announce.
Or, maybe it is. How long can they keep it a secret? I guess we'll find out…
About Yea HighQuote Reply
Is it her they've cast? If not….why tell her they've cast someone for that role?
She appears to be 26/7……so who was she auditioning for and, i ask again, why does she get told about who Dany is before us!
LegionQuote Reply
I seem to recall HBO saying they wanted to have original shows on year round to encourage people not to drop their subscription when a season ended.
AnonymousQuote Reply
Natalie Victoria said that she'd only just heard about the role being up, applied for it but was apparently turned down for an audition or reading as the part had already been cast. Sounded like she wasn't happy with her agent for missing the opportunity.
Tweet 1: "So they posted the sides 4Dany on Breakdowns – Nina Gold casting…#gameofthrones…ugh. My agent is the worst! I need 2get in.."
Tweet 2: "so sad. didnt even get a shot 2read or audition :( #gameofthrones…Dany is cast. They will announce in a few weeks. :("
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
I certainly think so! They've been bragging about being nominated for 99 Emmys – which I guess is some kind of record. I think HBO will be going for as many amazing shows as they can cram in their schedule.
AnonymousQuote Reply
If HBO likes it, they'll order it. They're not going to pass on it because of costs, especially with all the money that they've already sunk into it.
alynchQuote Reply
Wow well maybe she is even more unknown than some so perhaps they are holding out on the announcement. Protecting her from the wolves as it were….Or not. Maybe they are still just trying to cement her contract. I would imagine it would be quite complex given that she will be in all of them. When a regular was cast on Star trek New Generation, they had lifestyle requirements that dictated right down to how often they had to work out to how much they could weigh. Like I said I would imagine the contract to be extensive given the length of the series.
JaimeeQuote Reply
I've really never seen these projects as competition. Maybe they are from a purely budgetary standpoint, but honestly the other two are so vastly different from GoT that they will be attracting two completely different core audiences.
Yeah, you can only cut the pie into so many pieces, but if I were going to cut one project it would be one of the other two simply because they are more alike than either is to GoT. As a pay channel HBO should be more concerned with overall subscriptions rather than ratings. Having series that are similar may help to sustain existing subscribers who like those similar series, but it won't do as much to draw in viewers with different interests.
This might seem silly to some, but if the execs are worried that their content might be redundant in terms of generating new subscribers, then I'm more worried about True Blood causing problems for GoT than either Treme or BE. Yes the tounge-in-cheek vampire series is worlds away from GoT in terms of content, drama and scope, but you can at least make a case for the two shows coming from similar genres or even different subgenres (gothic vs. high fantasy) within the same man genre (fantasy).
Myt feelings for wuite some time though is that GoT will be picked up. Brude and some of the other regular posters know worlds more about the industry than I do, but I just get a sense from everything I read that the lack of an overall greenlight for the series is a formality. Perhaps I'm naive but it seems like the herculean effort already going into this thing would be a huge waste of time, money and expectations if the powers that be weren't already committed to pulling it off.
LordnedsheadQuote Reply
Hehe just read your comments above about subscriptions and such Brude. As mentioned in my post before this you know a hell of alot more about what goes into these things than I do. It's always encouraging to me when I find myself thinking along similar lines with you.
Jumping slightly off topic I just wanted to mention that regardless of which way HBO eventually goes with GoT I'm of the string opinion that passing on it would be a huge missed opportunity. These books were made to be an HBO series. There is no other venue that could do them justice and no other source material has been written that feels more like an HBO series than GoT.
LordnedsheadQuote Reply
I hope that Natalie Victoria is out of the running… I'm not one to complain about the casting so far, in fact, I've been ecstatic about it, but this girl to me is not Dany. A little too old, and she looks kind of… masculine? I don't know, something about her isn't right. I was expecting someone like Jon Snow/Kit Harrington–young, but serious, wise beyond their years, etc.
By the way, are there any Yankees fans out there? The game tonight was crazy, 15 innings, A-Rod has a walk off. Wild! It just ended, right now, here in NY.
As for female fans, count me in. I'm a fantasy fan (LOTR, Robert Jordan, etc.) but ASOIAF is by far my favorite fantasy series and book series overall. And I don't care about the Twilight/Vampire trends… F*ck that, but True Blood is an awesome show, way better than the books.
NicoleQuote Reply
HBO seems to realize the possiblity they have here with how they have cast the show so far which is great. I look forward to more in the coming weeks. Does anyone know the budgets for Treme/BE or Big Love/True Blood for that matter. I would think they would be quite a bit lower than Thrones except for maybe BE. Hopefully HBO is willing to spend the money to do it properly.
I have a question about the Paint Hall. Did I understand correctly that they won't have to pay any rent while they use it?
BrandonQuote Reply
I think free was meant as available rather than no cost…
JaimeeQuote Reply
Yup
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117987470.html?categoryid=1279&cs=1
"It's offering the studio for free, along with investment of up to $1 million, to any production that guarantees to spend at least $4 million in the province."
AnonymousQuote Reply
Thanks, I knew I couldn't be reading that right.
BrandonQuote Reply
I have a question about the Paint Hall. Did I understand correctly that they won't have to pay any rent while they use it?
The government of Northern Ireland is giving them free use of the facility – in return, NI will get a big boost to jobs and a LOT of money coming in through the taxes those jobs will generate, as well as other money being spent by the cast and crew will in country. Part of the deal is that they are hiring their crew almost entirely from NI. It's going to be well worth it to them just to have the production there, so they offered the sweetheart deal to HBO to win the production. It's a major, permanent production there that might last 7 seasons or so. Win-win for everybody.
BrudeQuote Reply
Thanks for clearing that up for me Brude.
BrandonQuote Reply
someone said somewhere that HBO were looking to broadcast worldwide…
This would be a smart move on their part…as ASOIAF is loved worldwide, and surprisingly much loved here in Australia…
I really hope they will broadcast here…if not it looks like ill have to order the DVDs from overseas when they come out :(
keraQuote Reply
It would be smart to broadcast it worldwide so they can capitalise on its international popularity. This series has the potential to be something amazing.
AnonymousQuote Reply
That's an interesting topic. Aside from some of the major news networks (CNN, BBC), is there anyone really trying to broadcast globally yet? Certainly not the traditional North American "entertainment" networks (ABC, NBC, CBS).
This could be a chance for HBO to become a truly global network if they choose to air AGOT simultaneously around the world. Has that ever really been done with a series before?
And if it's possible, why wouldn't they do it? In addition to the huge attention the show and HBO would receive, they'd also maximize subscriber revenue and minimize losses from downloading.
dholdsQuote Reply
@ Brude
Wow ok cool I didn't realize. what a score for HBO. I'm glad we have you for our technical questions. I'd be so confused. LOL So have you heard anything about HBO going global? If so is it something they plan to do soon?
JaimeeQuote Reply
Can someone explain to me how HBO works here in Australia? We only have Showcase wich has shows like True Blood, but never got The Wire. Id hate to have to download GOT
AnonymousQuote Reply
Regarding the female audience I think that the casting of Jaime and Jon Snow will be the key, we already know about Kit Harigton, he looks like the heartbreaker his roles requires, as for Jaime, we'll see in a few days (I hope).
Cristiano BernardiniQuote Reply
I think Fantasy has a lot of female fans (me included), more than Scifi for example, Asoiaf is no eception. It has enough Characters for everyone to be happy.^^
I would be happy if the series is shown at least in the UK simultanously, so I can buy a watchable DVD here in Germany soon.
I have no hope to see the show on TV anytime soon, we have no HBO channel here and most of their series I missed to watch. I remember True Blood was aired Sunday night, to late if you wanted to go to work on monday.-_-
AbendsternQuote Reply
I'm referring not only to the already existing fanbase, but to the simple viewers, the ones that don't know this story, the ones that would consider AGoT mainly as a tv series and then maybe read the books. This blog is great, but it's important to think out of the box, we're all fans and we're gonna see this series if picked up, that's obvious.
Cristiano BernardiniQuote Reply
If they underline the historic/medieval side of the series instead of the fantasy part, then I see a lot of female viewers, the character driven plot does the rest imo.
But if they sell it as an action driven show with lots of battle and sex szenes, then they will loose many viewers.
AbendsternQuote Reply
I think the fact that it's far more like a drama than your typical fantasy show will help it a lot. People need to compare it more to the Tudors or Rome or the Sopranos than they do to Lord of the Rings, which unfortunately is what people automatically think of when they hear the word 'fantasy'.
If HBO can shake off that comparison, and play up the medieval/historical/dramatic side of it, they'll pick up a lot more viewers. I know if I say to my mum (who hates fantasy) "Would you watch a fantasy tv show – just know, kind of like Lord of the Rings?" she'd immediately say no, whereas if I asked her if she'd watch a show that's full of intrigue and politics and medieval-style costumes, that just happens to be set in a fantasy world, she'd be far more likely to say yes.
SilverstarQuote Reply
@ anon above…
Yes i think it was channel 9 that used to broadcast the wire here in Australia but it was at like 11 pm…
Channel 10 in Aus picked up that stupid merlin show…there's no bloody reason why they cant pick up thrones…
If it doesn't get broadcast here ill probably cry :(
keraQuote Reply
Bravely attempting to derail the thread for the good of the community..
Any news from Montreal?
Any body who is there now?
Anybody plunked GRRMs magic twanger?
Plied him with booze? Any rumours, innuendoes, freudian slips , misspeaks or outright, interesting lies resulting thereof?
btw; http://www.montrealgazette.com/audio/georgerrmartin.mp3
Thoros of Myr
Thoros of Myr
AnonymousQuote Reply
@Thoros of Myr:
Great interview link! Consensus seems to be that the end of the GRRM book reading on monday 3:00pm EST will be the most probable in terms of spillage moments.
SparqQuote Reply
I just love the sound of that man's voice. I could just hug him! Fingers crossed for Monday then.
Thank you so much for the interview!!!
~ Thinks dreamily…..Someday I will get to hug my hero. Hopefully soon.
Current Mood: YIPPY!
JaimeeQuote Reply
just thought I'd let you know.
http://www.towerofthehand.com/blog/2009/08/01_editor_adwd_finished_soon/index.html
amirmQuote Reply
*Thumbs Up*
Great discussion thread. Good to see the trolls are sleeping (hopefully I didn't jinx it).
My 2 cents: I'm female, love *well-written* fantasy & sci/fi (GRRM, Lois McMaster Bujold, Orson Scott Card), and would buy HBO just for Thrones.
EliaQuote Reply
Elia,
speaking as a troll, there is nothing irritating enough to comment on in this thread (except your comment). Maybe when it gets really boring, I will speak up. Until then, please continue this thread.
AnonymousQuote Reply
@Thoros,
It seems that Jaime has been cast, too.
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showtopic=37890&st=60&start=60
AnonymousQuote Reply
amirm,
I hope HBO will make a decision on GoT before ADWD is released. Especially since most ASOIAF fans know nothing about the pilot. A sticker on the book saying 'Soon to be a HBO series' will really boost the potential HBO viewers and create more buzz for the series.
BoQuote Reply
With the pilot filming in October, I'd expect they would be making a decision before the end of the year. I don't think even the most optimistic estimate would have DWD being released before then.
AnonymousQuote Reply
I too am female, and have almost always liked fantasy. I really enjoyed it when I was younger so while my friends had their subscriptions to Harlequin Romance novels, I had subscriptions to Asimov and Nat Geo and Fantasy book clubs. I was at the used book store trading the romance novels I got as gifts and buying Toilken. I even got one of my friend's mom to subscribe to an adult fantasy book club for me (I think it was Ballentine or something close to it). Then I went through a period where I got tired of the genre and it's predictability. Then a buddy of mine reccommended Martin. I fell in love (sorry Mrs. Martin…but really can you blame me?) His stories, anything but predictable, drew me back into the genre but here is what I find myself doing. I read a fantasy book and then I go back and reread GoT. I read another fantasy book. Then I reread A Clash Of Kings. I have literally reread the series 10 times (I'm on 11 right now and look! It turned out to be lucky!) Even though I had sort of turned away from fantasy I'm back. And I'm trying my hardest to suck all my Romancers, thriller readers, Sci-fi and history buff) friends into it. i got my friend (who is solely a crime drama genre girl) to read it by telling her about twists that it took. She got her romance novels only friend to read it by telling her about that romantic/tragic love aspect of it. My rambling point is that this epic story has something for everyone, even if they think they didn't like fantasy. It draws you in. And then you can't help it, you're hooked.
This is me, with a hook hanging out of my mouth, just waiting for the worm.
This will be huge. What am I sayin? It IS huge!
I love you guys!!!!!!
I Love you WIC!!!!!
I have a lot of love in my heart today, and its a love of Ice and Fire and the fellow fans thereof…
JaimeeQuote Reply
The news from Montreal is that GRRM confirmed that both Dany and Jaime have been cast, but he wasn't allowed to say anything until the official announcements are made.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Dany and Jamie news will be great to get.
But I still want to know who will be cast as Cersei!
Someone get GRRM drunk, stat!
LegionQuote Reply
Audio interview with GRRM here in which he discusses the TV adaptation. No major new revelations but some interesting stuff there:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/audio/georgerrmartin.mp3
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
@Brude
I tend to agree with just about everything you say, and you often have some of the most insightful commentary on the board, but….
John from Cincinnati was pure gibberish. I'm even from a target demographic, being A) from a surfing town, and B) having family in the Board Sports industry. It was rightfully canceled for being a long winded pretentious awful, awful, show, who's flaws were purely in the writing, as the acting was actually pretty darned good.
I'm afraid we're just going to have to disagree on this show. :)
Smoldering HoundQuote Reply
I don't think the number of shows is actually such a big factor. Each show will stand or fall based on its own ability to draw viewers, and despite the fact that TrueBlood has "fantasy elements" I believe that the appeal of GoT will be quite unique.
HBO will need to consider not only the size of the fanbase, but its depth. HBO kept The Wire going not because many people watched it – but because those who did watch liked it so much that they would find a way to keep HBO in all circumstances, and then buyt DVDs, Blu-Rays, etc…
And GoT is another example of narrow-casting. The goal is to create devotees. I'm not certain GoT will be picked up, but I think the decision will be based on its quality, not the competition.
sevenwarlocksQuote Reply
Well, IF Dance will be released in Feb/March 2010 (according to the tower of the hand article) the series COULD be announced at the same time.
Cristiano BernardiniQuote Reply
That would be a nice symmetry. ADWD being the second book in the series to hit #1 on the NYT bestseller list (something none of the TRUE BLOOD books have managed yet, I believe?) would likely be a big clue to HBO that it would be a great idea to pick up the series.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Yea it seems like the timing of the book and the show are converging a bit, and I'm sure if they can, they will capitalize on the success that the book will undoubtedly have. HBO surely spends lots of money on marketing, especially for free show, and having a book on the NYT bestsellers list is not only very good marketing, but also free marketing for HBO.
The interesting difference between True Blood and Thrones will be that the Sookie Stackhouse series has been widely criticized for being… not that good. In fact, its one of the rare cases were most people seem to think the show is actually better than the books. In Thrones' case, if the show can be HALF as good as the books, then it should be an knock-out show.
That, plus I believe that aSoIaF was more successful and popular than the true blood books. ( I can't back that up, but I follow books pretty well, and never remember hearing much, if anything, about those books. )
The ChrisQuote Reply
EDIT: that was supposed to say "especially for new shows" up there
The ChrisQuote Reply
I didn't read Sookie Stackhouse books (plan to read at least the first) but AFAIK only the general plotlines are kept in the show,like the murders in S1 and the Dallas business in S2. Most of the rest is made up, more or less like Dexter in relation to the novels.
Judging from the leaked pilot script, AGOT series will be much closer to the source material, and that's a huge plus to the already great cast and crew. Call me overly optimistic, but there's no chance AGOT series will fail.
AlexQuote Reply
Friend of mine saw Harry LLoyd in a play. Lloyd confired that Dany has been cast, but claimed he wasn't allowed to say.
This at least confirms what people have been saying in regards Dany…but unfortunately gives us no new news.
LegionQuote Reply
How is it that I only just realized that "Boardwalk Empire" is a period show? Jesus, it's going to be very expensive, then. A show set in the 1920's might as well be set in the 1720's, almost. You have to do a lot to dress up old buildings and locations (or dress down, as the case may be), so they look period. All of that costuming and all of the old cars and props – it's not cheap. I wouldn't be surprised if many shots and scenes are going to use a fair bit of CGI to get rid of modern buildings and objects, or even to render some exteriors in their proper period form.
There are places they can shoot where set/location dressing will be at a minimum. Miller's Crossing was shot in New Orleans, and that place has so many old locations that still look the same today. Does anybody know where the show is shooting?
BrudeQuote Reply
New York
TzuQuote Reply
@Brude: It seems it's mostly being shot in Brooklyn and on location throughout New York. They build a replica of the boardwalk in a industrial area overlooking the east river. From the sound of it quite a lot of John Adams like CG will be applied.
SparqQuote Reply
Heh, they are shooting some of it in my neighborhood (Park Slope) and I didn't even know it. Then again, I tend not to pay attention to movie trucks so much anymore when I see them, they are so common in NYC. That they are shooting so close by will be handy for Steve Buscemi, since he lives around the corner from me – in the same house he grew up in, apparently (I've only seen him twice around the neighborhood, though).
BrudeQuote Reply
GRRM just posted on his site that if Dany has been cast it is news to him. He said nothing about Jaime however.
LordnedsheadQuote Reply
HBO is gearing up, there's place for 3 dramas and more on top of that, when you consider cycling them throughout the year. You can really see that their new decision-makers have a fresh progamming strategy, which I really like.
Where exactly are the new explicit rumours of casting decisions coming from? I read a line on the Westeros forum, but that's all. A trustworthy poster, though :) Do you have any additional insiders, WiC?
MarkoQuote Reply
Ah, classic misunderstanding. I was talking to someone at Worldcon via the Internet and mentioned the Dany casting thing and they replied that 'According to George, Jaime has been cast as well', which led me to the conclusion that GRRM had mentioned the Dany thing. Obviously not. Sorry about that.
So, although HBO have apparently told other actors that Dany has been cast, they haven't spoken to GRRM about it yet.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Thanks for clearing things up, Adam!
I hope they announce some kids soon as well. If not, I am bound to have the feeling that haven't cast perfect choices, though still the best ones they could while running out of time.
MarkoQuote Reply
The other possibility is that HBO are not taking any more auditions or readings for Dany as they already have loads to go through and are close to making a decision, but the rejected actress took that to mean the role had already gone. Brude can probably clear up if that is how casting works or if they keep accepting submissions right up until they've found their actress and only then close it down.
I suspect Dan and David are staying in contact with GRRM via email at the con, so if the role had been cast, I would assume that he'd have been told by now.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
As far as the whole Dany casting thing, hard to know really, but if I recall all of the speculation that the role has been cast comes from that one actress' twitter that her agent told her it has been cast. To me the only thing that says is that the agent TOLD the client client the role is cast – that doesn't mean it really is already cast.
It could just as easily mean the agent never submitted her, either because they didn't think she was right for it or because they don't have a relationship with the casting directors and couldn't get her in the room. In cases like that, agents will often lie to their own clients about what's going on to protect themselves and make them look good in their client's eyes (doesn't sound like it worked in her case, she said she hates her agent). Lying to one's own clients (even though in many cases it's for their own good – seriously) is partly what made me so sick of that business and why I left. It's extremely common, though. I've always been a terrible liar, because I feel very uncomfortable when I do it, so that was one part of the job of being a talent manager I was never good at.
BrudeQuote Reply
Anyone have any thoughts on why HBO wouldn't air AGOT simultaneously around the world?
Seems like a no-brainer to me …
dholdsQuote Reply
I don't mean to sound like a dick, but seen as my post appears to have been ignored, as i posted before, a friend of mine spoke to Harry Lloyd, the British actor who will be playing Viserys. He confirmed Dany had been cast, but that he couldn't say who.
Being that he is Viserys, one would assume he would have been asked to read with potential Dany's and thus would have a clue.
GRRM could simply be having a laugh with people because he is fed up of being 'scooped'
LegionQuote Reply
If Dany has been cast, it is news to me.
May that be a clue? I highly doubt they will cast someone without telling Martin, so what if that means "If Dany has been cast, she's a unknown to me"?
Someone get Martin drunk! Or kidnap him and then torture him a bit, but make him talk!
LeonQuote Reply
I think we all need to support AGOT hardcore when it comes out because lets face it the old style gagnster and Katrina stuff has run its course…Im sure that I have already seen a Doc on musicians effected by Katrina.
AnonymousQuote Reply
I think that's definitely reading too much into what he's saying ;-)
@ dholds, HBO have their channel in America and a number of other channels around the world, but in other countries they have to wait for a local channel to buy their show. There is no HBO UK for example, so other channels need to decide to buy and then show their series. THE WIRE was shown on the tiny cable FX Channel for several years and only a few months ago got picked up by the BBC, for example, seven years after it debuted in the USA.
GAME OF THRONES is being part-funded by the BBC, so the BBC should be able to show it in the UK almost simultaneously with its US broadcast, but that's up to them. They only aired ROME six months after US transmission.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
R'hllor bless internet, if I had to wait to see the series here in Spain… I'd bet even ADWD would come out first!
One question: Can they cast someone without Martin's approval? It really freaks me out. I'm not happy with half of the cast so far… if Martin has nothing to do with it, I better go to the godswood and pray.
LeonQuote Reply
"One question: Can they cast someone without Martin's approval? It really freaks me out. I'm not happy with half of the cast so far… if Martin has nothing to do with it, I better go to the godswood and pray."
I'm sure they can approve a casting without his approval, but chances are, if one of them is happy with the casting, the other is likely to be as well.
IMO, so far the casting has been damn near perfect.
DemersonQuote Reply
Well, we recently got HBO Canada up here so I guess I won't have to worry about a delay. But at the very least, you'd think the BBC would want to air it at the same time in the U.K. as HBO in the U.S.
I've just never understood the point of delaying shows in other regions … what purpose does it serve?
And … ahh, not that I watch it or anything, but we get Coronation Street here in Canada on CBC a year after it's broadcast on the BBC. Why? WHY?! I need to know what's going to happen with Carla and Liam!! Oh, umm … I'm going to stop typing now.
dholdsQuote Reply
It depends on GRRM's contract. If it's a more hands-on executive producer contract, maybe. However, I suspect it's more of a hands-off, staying-informed, being able to write one episode per season contract. HBO having to wait to send GRRM every single casting tape and waiting for his approval on every decision would likely be untenable for someone not working full-time on the series. I think his comment more meant that Benioff and Weiss are keeping him in the loop and they'd let him know pretty quickly if they had cast Dany.
OTOH, we do know that he was sent Mark Addy's audition tape, so who knows?
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
My guess is he doesn't have any actual control over casting, but they may be asking for his input and ideas since he is involved in the show far more than most authors are with things based on their work. The fact that he spent so much time working in TV in Hollywood probably means they are willing to hear his ideas, more. But he has made statements in the past to the effect that he doesn't really have much final say in things. I think they want to do the books justice as much as possible, so when they have questions I'm sure he's an email or a phone call away.
BrudeQuote Reply
Sounds to me like so far GRMM has seen every casting tape of actors that were accepted. But he has mentioned seeing only several.
bardamuQuote Reply
He said he hadn't seen Harington's audition when he was cast, didn't he?
LeonQuote Reply
Maybe. I'm only using my memory as reference. Which needs an upgrade.
bardamuQuote Reply
Whoever said if first had it right: to get a huge female fanbase, the only thing they need to do is to cast a great Jon and a great Jaime. Sean is fantactic as Ned, and people will be SPOILER when he SPOILER, but he does not make girls squeal when he gets his time on screen(not like True Blood´s Eric character to mention one). Anyway, he isn´t supposed to. Now Jon Snow has all the potential for a die-for character for young adults, and Jaime Lannister for any woman around. TV viewers often have hots for strong sarcastic evil HANDSOME characters, where readers just despise them. The power of the images, my friends.
AnonymousQuote Reply
Bean might not make girls squeal, but he makes a lot of women squeal. ;)
AnonymousQuote Reply
He is the bee's knees.
JaimeeQuote Reply
While Bean as Ned is a great get, the casting of Jaime is far more important to the series. neds is kind of a one-note wonder and without giving away any spoilers, Jaime is ultimately much more important to the overall series.
Jaime is gonna have to be a hot, multidimensional leading man without other plans for the future. IMO Jaime is the most crucial casting decision for the series (maybe aside from Tyrion for whom they got the best).
LordnedsheadQuote Reply
It was mentioned earlier about if the series did get picked up with what show would it be paired with. The general consensus seems to be it will be with a show that is similar to GOT. I don't think this will be the case/want it to be the case. I'm a 22 year old guy and my roomates and I love watching Entourage, which airs at 10. Last year about 2 or 3 episodes into the season a couple of my roomates gf's would join us and made us watch TRUE BLOOD which aired right before Entourage at 9. My roomates and I are now hooked on the show and we have people over every sunday to watch True Blood and Entourage.
Anyway my point being is that I would never have started watching True Blood if it wasn't right next to an already existing fav. of mine. I don't know how much longer Entourage will be on (I kinda think the show is somewhat dying) but airing GOT before an already existing popular show makes sense to me.
MikeQuote Reply
Well since I am biased in favour of "A Song Of Ice And Fire", if they were to drop or cancel any of the other shows I wouldn't really care that much. I love David Simon for "The Wire" and "Generation Kill", but George RR Martin and his epic come before anything else HBO has planned… As for Martin Scorsese, his talent is undeniable, but really do we need another gangster show, no matter how good? Six seasons of "The Sopranos" was more than enough… I actually wished they produced another season of "Deadwood" and "Carnivale" and have cancelled "The Sopranos" sooner, and did we really need as many seasons of "Sex And The City" and "Six Feet Under"?
Perhaps they should drop "In Treatment" and "True Blood", geeesh enough with vampires!!! "Twittlight" or "Titlight" or whatever is bad enough, do we really need another prime time show with vampires (even on HBO)? "Buffy The Vampire Slayer", "Angel" and "Moonlight" was enough…
"A Game of Thrones" all the way!
loco73Quote Reply
Oh yeah…f**k "Entourage"!!!! What a turd…
loco73Quote Reply
How about they bring back Rome for a new season and use it as a lead in to GoT? I know it'll never happen but I would miss Christmas dinner with Walt Disney, Elvis and Buddah with Megan Fox on extacy as my date while my head is bleeding from a gunshot wound in order to stay at home and watch both shows in order.
LordnedsheadQuote Reply
True Blood, Treme, Boardwalk Empire and Thrones… that is a killer line-up! *fingers crossed*
ChrisQuote Reply
( I've never been as blown away with HBO's non-drama shows… so I don't care as much which comedies are on the line-up )
ChrisQuote Reply
According to a post on ASOIF, George confirmed that Jaime has been cast but he wouldn't say who.
In case anybody was wondering….
JaimeeQuote Reply
Yeah, apparently he was talking about Nicole Kidman for Cersei but she's way too famous and that led to him saying Jaime had been cast and then clamming up.
What is interesting is that he apparently said that Kidman is also 'too old' for Cersei, which I thought was interesting as she is only 42, or three years older than Ehle and Dinklage and eight years younger than Bean. Doesn't seem too old to me.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Hmmmm Gives us a little insight (maybe) to his vision of how old cersei should be.
~wonders, stares off….
JaimeeQuote Reply
Or possibly they've cast Jaime younger (early thirties?) and they need Cersei to match him.
Or that's possibly reading too much into it ;-)
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
that's awesome.. nicole kidman is cold enough to be the perfect cersei, and she's completely hot. yes too famous.. oh wells oh wells.
AnonymousQuote Reply
ps wanted to say that not all GRRM fans think Treme sounds boring. It sounds very cool to me, original, and of the times… the 20's mob show I'm sure would be great, but it's just another rehash.
HBO is known of having cutting edge original entertainment, from comedy series (Mr Show, Tenacious D) to dark stuff like Six Feet Under, and insanely great mini series. These days, they have True Blood which is neat but mostly just neat, and Rome, an expensive meh moment.
They need to have fresh shows coming in and Treme could be it. Or maybe they're willing to trade down to a more pop audience in general–I doubt it.
AnonymousQuote Reply
ps as far as GOT falls into that 'cutting edge' scene, it could end up being bloated and over-produced (read: average, not too disappointing to the fans), or it could be well controlled by new, talented, visionary people, and be something new and exciting in television. Of course I hope that this is the path.
It does seem like the show is aiming only to compete and survive, not to blow everyone away, even with the actors that are on board now. I hate to be a damper, but Benioff is not a great positive indication of the cutting edge either, judging from his record.
AnonymousQuote Reply
I hope it's worth the suspense… I'm antsy
AnonymousQuote Reply
Hollywood Reporter scoop in 3… 2… 1…
(Hey! I can hope!)
AshliQuote Reply
I'm a girl & I love fantasy! Especially rich, well imagined worlds like GRRM's. Not only do I agree w/ Jaimee that Sean Bean is the bee's knee's, but I also think Peter Dinklage is sexy! I would say Kit Harrington is a good bet to be a heartthrob too but I don't want to feel like a cradle robber. I think the cast so far is full of beautiful people.
BrienneQuote Reply
@Ashli
You seriously got me really excited for about 5 seconds. Now I must go to bed depressed.
furreverQuote Reply
OMG BRIENNE! YES!
"but I also think Peter Dinklage is sexy!"
I totally fell in love with him when he was on NIP TUCK. He is is a sexy guy. I've seen him in a bunch of movies. He is good. I'm pretty sure it's his just UHH! Utter Probity he exudes with the emotion of the character. You know he is tapping something deep and he IS that character. He is feeling that love/hate/disgust/respect feels because he becomes that man. He nails it every single time. I don't think I have ever seen a bad performance by him. He played the manny flawlessly. He looked so capable and kind which will be so cool to see that converted! Into Tyrion! Capable charismatic cunning with a sprinkle of evil to give it a kick. I hope they don't OOOP Spoiler…
mess his face up too bad. Just some rugged scars instead of well you know what I mean…
JaimeeQuote Reply
"It does seem like the show is aiming only to compete and survive, not to blow everyone away, even with the actors that are on board now. I hate to be a damper, but Benioff is not a great positive indication of the cutting edge either, judging from his record."
I'm curious why you get get this opinion, Anon. So far we've had a few casting announcements, some mention of the cast, and a leaked script. So far everything seems to be going really great, where do you get the mediocre impression at such an early stage?
ChrisQuote Reply
EDIT – *some mention of the crew* not cast
ChrisQuote Reply
@Anon – they already have what's going to "blow everyone away" – the story, duh.
I mean, seriously, the source material is so brilliant, they would really have to go out of their way to screw this up.
dholdsQuote Reply
@anon
We have a great story, great actors, great director – really, I can't see the problems. For the moment it looks too good to be true.
It's true that Benioff doesn't have a whole lot of experience but until now he has only made good decisions.
amirmQuote Reply
I'm actually quite bemused by the seemingly wide-spread notion that Sean Bean doesn't have many female fans… He's charming: has charisma, personality, a lovely voice, and isn't exactly bad-looking. :) "Attractive" is the word that comes to mind. I am a woman myself – but as has already been seen in this thread – I don't think I'm speaking for myself only.
True, he'll probably appeal more to women, than teenage girls – but since there are more women than teenage girls, that should scarcely be a problem. Especially considering that women are more likely to have cash to spend on subscriptions, DVDs, that sort of thing…
And I also agree – Peter Dinklage is downright handsome. :) And Kit Harington seems like a nice-looking boy, and will no doubt appeal to many (and I think he looks like he has the makings of a good Jon.)
Anonymous 537Quote Reply
Hey guys, just wondering: Wasn't there supposed to be another announcement from GRRM on this past weekend on WorldCon? What happened? Did he decide not to say anything after all? :(
AnonymousQuote Reply
guess we're all still waiting for that. Should be today.
ptzQuote Reply
"I'm actually quite bemused by the seemingly wide-spread notion that Sean Bean doesn't have many female fans… He's charming: has charisma, personality, a lovely voice, and isn't exactly bad-looking. :) "Attractive" is the word that comes to mind."
Yeah, especially his awesome wife-beating antics show what a nonchalant gentleman he is…
*rolleyes*
AFQuote Reply
@ptz: Hollywood Reporter seems pretty punctual about its casting bulletins. If it is today, we will know in exactly 5 hours (11:00AM ET).
SparqQuote Reply
Make that 11:00PM ET, so in 17 hours >_<
SparqQuote Reply
I think GRRM is doing a reading sometime today at Worldcon, so it's possible he might do an announcement then. I'm sure we'll get reports of it from the BwB if he does.
SilverstarQuote Reply
@AF Well – unlike you, no doubt – I have not the honour of knowing him personally; I was talking about him as an actor.
Anonymous 537Quote Reply
Yeah, probably gonna be today during his reading. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to find out what it could be! >_< Maybe he's finished his book… o_o
LaurenQuote Reply
I think GRRM can only hint at what he knows and not actually make an official announcement so be prepared to interpret anything he says.
RayQuote Reply
But he said he had some more big news to announce! Why would he announce only hints as big news? D8
LaurenQuote Reply
I went and read GRRM's blog and he did only say "sly hints". T_T We may get diddly today…
LaurenQuote Reply
@ Lauren
He never actually said he'd announce big news. This is what his Not A Blog post says
Well, maybe I'll let slip a few things at the Montreal worldcon. Or maybe not. You'll have to ply me with booze and plunk my magic twanger, and we'll see.
Fortunately, even HOLLYWOOD REPORTER doesn't know all the cool stuff I know, so I will still be able to smile engimatically and drop sly hints in Montreal.
RayQuote Reply
Might just have been an ploy to get a lot of free drinks … ;)
SilverstarQuote Reply
probably was – that's the impression I have of allmighty grrm… ;)
LivveyQuote Reply
Well, he let slip that Jaime has been cast. That might be all we get.
As for ADWD being completed, I don't think so. He said a few weeks ago he thinks he could finish it in October/November, so it's unlikely it's done now. I would, of course, be 100% happy if this did turn out to be the case :-)
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
ARGH! @ lame hints xD
Why must he tease us so?! lol
LaurenQuote Reply
He's already talked about DANCE at the con. There's a podcast itnerview somewhere.
He said he has 1000 Manuscript pages done. That the other books were all between 1100 and 1500 so he has a few hundred more to do.
Unless he magically wrote 200-300 pages in the last few days DANCE is not done.
DekuQuote Reply
Jaime cast? Can't wait to see who will play our beloved Kingslayer.
RavenaQuote Reply
Ugh, the waiting is the hardest part! >__<
I remember seeing the schedule, but can anyone confirm what time GRRM's reading is today?
NicoleQuote Reply
If Jaime has been cast, then I'd guess even if we don't find out today, we'll find out pretty soon, wouldn't we?
SilverstarQuote Reply
@Nicole
The program guide says his reading is at 3:00 PM local time for Montreal.
@Silverstar
One would certainly hope so.
LaurenQuote Reply
dholds, I agree, the books are great. Otherwise I wouldn't care. But the show will not automatically inherit the greatness.
Chris, I didn't say it will be mediocre. I think it will AT LEAST be above average, which is the recent average for HBO. But there's also a chance it could be excellent. Not bad prospects. For the reasons I already mentioned, the competion, the new HBO direction, and the people involved in the production.
Not complaining here, just making an observation.
AnonymousQuote Reply
@ Deku:
He has 1,000 'locked', that is finished, revised, handed in to his publishers. From what his editor was saying at Comicon, some, if not most, of the other 200-odd pages have been written and exist in earlier draft forms. So it's not a case that he still has 200 pages to write from scratch, in which case I'd think finishing by November is unlikely-to-impossible. It's more revisions and editing, with 'some' new material to be written (probably related to that Meereenese knot he's mentioned recently).
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Although I plan to devour the book as soon as it comes out, I am glad he takes his time and writes them well. That's great. Thank the gods he doesn't work for Harlequin.
I'm also really glad he got to go to Worldcon. Sounds like a fun time was had by all.
Can't wait to see who Jaime is, it wil cinch the Cersei net (ie what "the look" of her twin will be…) even tighter. I wonder who else they have cast, this information seems to come in pairs…or in 3s…lol.
I've been watching some McCarthy films. Just to tide myself over. Just watched "Visitor" last nite. Just saw "Surviving Eden" this morning, I hadn't seen that one before. Dinklage is in that one, DUDE!
I found myself wondering if you can get Netflix on your side of the Lake? Do they have Netflix UK?
JaimeeQuote Reply
The way he writes is always constantly reworking stuff before finalising it. He apparently has more than enough pages existing in some form already and some of it will even be going on to the next book.
This however doesn't mean that he can suddenly finish another 200-300 pages in a few days regardless of the fact they already exist in a first draft form. That's still several months of work.
I guess he could decide to publish it as it is and keep everything else for the next book. That would make DANCE somewhere in the region of 600 pages though.
Seems unlikely. I wouldn't expect anything more to be said of DANCE at this con.
DekuQuote Reply
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