Benioff & Weiss thank the fans
By Winter Is Coming on in Casting, News.

David and Dan checked in over at the Westeros forums to thank the fans for all their help and support in the casting process. They also tease a possible George R. R. Martin cameo.

This is just to say thank you, from both of us, for all the excellent casting suggestions posted on the board. We hope you like the group we’ve assembled. Seeing them together for the first time was surreal: watching the Stark children whispering in the corner; seeing Jaime and Tyrion gossiping at the bar; staring up at the Hound as he loomed over the crowd…

Gods be good, we’ll get to do this again soon. Littlefinger, Renly, Varys, Ilyn Payne– all great roles in need of great actors. But we’ve got a lot of work before we get there. Keep your fingers crossed for us.

And now to figure out George’s Stan Lee moment…

Valar morghulis,
D&D

Winter Is Coming: The cast for this project was about as close to perfection as one could have hoped. Honestly, I didn’t know what to expect when David & Dan first asked for fan suggestions. A part of me expected them to check in once or twice and then get wrapped up in pre-production for the pilot and not really take into account the fans’ choices. But to their credit not only did they listen to the fans, they remained active in the community.

Many of the names among the cast were first mentioned over at Westeros (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Jennifer Ehle, and Harry Lloyd to name a few). And a number of them were actually the fans’ top choice (Sean Bean, Peter Dinklage, Ian McNeice and Jason Momoa in particular). I think the amount of input and interaction amongst the fans’ and the shows creators here is pretty impressive. And all this before it is even officially a series. David & Dan are to be commended for helping foster this relationship. So hats off to them for sticking to their word and delivering a great, great cast!

Also, a cameo for George would be awesome. Who should he appear as? I’m thinking seeing him at the feast in Winterfell or maybe at Illyrio’s mansion would work.


307 Comments

  1. Lauren
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    FIRST!!!!! :D

    (totally worthless post)

  2. Lauren
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    lol now that i've read the post….

    It's really great how they've encouraged and actually used fan input. And I can't wait to find out what Margin's "Stan Lee" moment will be. ^_^

  3. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Does Benjen bring a Night's Watch retinue with him to Winterfell?

    GRRM as a black brother just works in my head.

    Otherwise, having his as a scribe or someting at Illyrio's, quill in hand with loads of papers around him, like a writer, would be an amusing nod to who he really is that would neither be out of place or distracting.

  4. Dani
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    I'm pleased to see how nice were D&D thanking the fans and, of course, how are paying attention to the suggestions properly.

    Can't wait for looking for Mr. Martin in the pilot!

  5. hayrickman
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    I like him at the beheading, enjoying the spectacle.

  6. sjwenings
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Really, he should have played Gared.

    But a little cameo would be fun. I'm picturing him either with a quill or ale in hand on the fest. Or both.

  7. Josh
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    RE: GRRM's cameo
    I like the scribe idea, but didn't they stop trying to cast the Nameless Eunuch? Maybe they already had one in mind…

  8. Marko
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    D&D are definitely setting the new record as producers that communicate most with both the author they are adapting and the fan base. Very fruitful so far, and extremely encouraging, no doubt about it. And it will be fun to see Martin appear on the show.

  9. Mauberly
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    I'm pretty sure that Parris will have cameo, too. They probably going to be together in the feast background. They both were in The Beauty and the Beast.

  10. xanvians
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    George Martin + bowflex = Rhaegar.

  11. Manda
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    If GRRM was the Nameless Eunuch he'd have to shave his beard and I can't see that happening.

    And I agree that it's wicked cool (:p) that D&D are giving a shout out to the fans. I love that they're accessible.

  12. T.D. Newton
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    If HBO hasn't seen the popularity that this project has already garnered, they must be hiding under a rock.

    WiC deserves as much thanks as the fans, for being a resource and a trumpet. Those of us who subscribe (but rarely comment, and have absolutely no skill in figuring out the clues) appreciate all of the efforts.

  13. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Completely off topic and a really random aside but………why the hell is their an ad trying t get me to join Scientology over there –>!?!?!?!

    WiC have you gone Hollywood and been sucked in?

    (I'm aware it's like a random thing, but it just suprised me)

  14. Paul Gude
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Legion, I only see something trying to sell me a Toyota.

    Maybe the ads see something special in you. ;)

  15. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    Noooooooooooooooooooooo

    Lord Xenu is coming to get me and my thetons!

    [This is what Scientologists actually believe]

  16. ni
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    wow! the cast + the story + HBO,
    this has the potential to be the greatest TV show ever!

  17. Paul Gude
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    Okay, that lead me to Tarvuism which lead me to this question:

    Legion, you are of very strong opinions regarding who is good and bad in comedy in Great Britain. What do you think of Peter Serafinowicz?

    1) Do you like him?
    2) Could there be a role for him in ASoIaF?

  18. Alex Harman
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    George Martin + bowflex = Rhaegar.

    Yeah, right. George may not be quite large enough to play Lord Manderly, but I don't think he'd make a very convincing Rhaegar. I could see him modeling for a portrait of Aegon the Unworthy, though….

  19. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    He has an amazing voice and is tall. He can act, but generally takes the same role. I like him most of the time. He was a naked zombie, major points for that.

    He looks a bit like Richard Armitage, so could be a cheaper option for Armitage roles.

    I suspect he could have a role, featured Ser for example, but I can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

    Did you have a role in specific Paul?

  20. dholds
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    Hey, there's a new post about this! Guess I'll add my comment here then too…

    I think Mord, the jailor from the sky cells would be a great fit for GRRM's cameo. I can't remember though, does he die in the book?

    If not, maybe they could re-write the script a bit so that Tyrion tricks him somehow and pushes him out of his cell. That would be sweet … George being killed by his favourite character!

  21. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Lol, Mord is in it quite a bit.

    When I suggested it before, like I said, it was meant as a joke, cos I love Mord.

    It would be funny as hell to see GRRM as Mord though

  22. dholds
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    George for Mord! George for Mord!

  23. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Oh, and to answer the question, he doesnt die in the book, Tyrion tells him to call on Casterly Rock so he can repay him his debt, meaning he wants to be mean to Mord, but Mord is too dumb and greedy to realise this.

    Whether Mord will ever be seen again remains to be seen. If GRRM did become Mord, it would be even more hilarious if he wrote himself back in to a later series.

    Gotta love Mord, you know where you are with Mord.

  24. Yaha!
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Regards from Spain!

    It's my first time writting here, but I usually read you. Excuse me for my poor english, please (I haven't studied it since I was at the school, ten years ago).

    And now… one simple question: You have just told about him, but…who ***** is the Nameless Eunuch? He isn´t in GoT book, is it?

    Congratulations for this gorgeous blog, sois los putos amos!

  25. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    Hi Yaha, or should that be Hola?

    Nameless Eunuch wasn't in the book, and he only had one role in the leaked script. He was basically a majordomo for Illyrio. He announced people at the feast, and announces Viserys and Dany into the room.

    But they decided to cut the role according to GRRM, so I wouldnt give it another thought.

  26. Paul J
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    Mord seems to come out alright. He's still around in Feast, now with gold teeth.

  27. dholds
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Well then, Mord could be a recurring role for George!

    Just so long as he keeps him around in the books long enough for him to die a horrible death at the hands of Tyrion … always one to pay his debts, you know.

  28. Paul J
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion paid him with gold. I think he's satisfied enough.

  29. dholds
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    What did he pay Mord for? Did he let him escape? I thought Tyrion got out when Bronn won the duel.

  30. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    He pays Mord for taking a message to Lysa; the message that he was ready to confess his sins.

  31. LadyNYC74
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    I see GRRM as a Black Brother …. that way he can have a cameo each season and Parris can be a Wilding …. DEFEND THE WALL

  32. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Another side note.

    I'm watching my way through Deadwood and now, after having watching my way through Kings a fortnight ago (which you should have all watched by now and if you haven't shame on you, go watch it now), I am utterly and completely CONVINCED that there needs to be a part for Ian McShane in Game of Thrones.

    I dont care who he plays, but it needs to be recurring and it needs to be great.

  33. dholds
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    Ah, right. So they're buddies then.

    Still would be funny for George to play him though.

    But I'll stick with my first thought, that he should be Jon Arryn … if they keep him in the pilot, that is.

  34. Mormegil
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    Nameless Eunuch wasn't in the book, and he only had one role in the leaked script. He was basically a majordomo for Illyrio. He announced people at the feast, and announces Viserys and Dany into the room.

    I don't get why people say Nameless Eunuch was not in the books because there is indeed a nameles Eunuch who announces Dany, Viserys and Illyrio when they arrive at Drogo's Palace in Pentos.

    What did he pay Mord for? Did he let him escape? I thought Tyrion got out when Bronn won the duel.

    He paid Mord to get him an audience with Lysa (by telling her he wanted to confess) where he demanded the trial by combat.

  35. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    @Mormegil

    Well blow me down, you are bloody right. There is a Eunuch who announces them!

  36. Mormegil
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Mord of course is still around in book 4 and he has caertainly made use of Tyrions gold.

  37. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    Maybe Goldie should be Mord all things considered…..

  38. Mormegil
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    LOL

  39. Demokritos
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    @dholds
    Tyrion and Mord aren't exactly buddies (At least I think that's what you meant by "they"?) Mord does do Tyrion a small favor in exchange for a bribe, but this is after he's been his jailor in the rather nasty sky cell or whatever it was called. Tyrion doesn't much like him, and does in fact imply that he intends to "pay his debts" the Lannister way. Mord's just too dumb to pick up on the double meaning. Not sure Tyrion dislikes him enough to go out of his way, though. He'll probably be satisfied that Lysa Arryn's dead.

    Personally I doubt George will get a named role. I'm not sure he can do a British accent, much less act, and I think he'd be loath to try and act in a real role when there are professional actors who'd do a better job. He'll probably just be a lineless extra. Maybe one word at best. I personally think it'd be cool if he shows up waiting outside Ros' door as Jaime and Tyrion are walking out, looking impatient (saying "Finally!", if he's able to fake the accent for one word). Parris might not approve, but as long as he doesn't actually get his magic twanger plucked, I doubt she'll mind too much. Shacking up with George so long, she must have a good (evil?) sense of humor, right? And she can be a lineless, wealthy Lady with an awesome costume (perhaps a hot extra as her Lord husband, to keep things balanced.)

  40. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    Can Parris act? Lady Tanda will need to be cast at some point (hopefully).

    Also, the innkeeper who chews the red sour leaf, who Catelyn remembers, Marsha something maybe? I say Annette Badland would be perfect for that role.

  41. Fünke
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    Hello my Poodkins,

    Well, I was hoping for GRRM's Peter Jackson moment but… anyways. This is my suggestion.

    And it is The Best One you'll ever hear.

    When I read the books, each time GRRM wrote about the food being served, I think I drooled on my chin a few times. That guy sure knows how to describe foods! Yummm Yummm Yummm!

    Therefore I move that GRRM must do a cameo as a cook.

    And as a side note, some brilliant schlock out there should make a Song of Ice and Fire cookbook.

    I have spoken.

  42. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    I'd buy it.

    But then i'm still looking forward to the action figure range……

  43. todd
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    die his beard bright green or a deep purple, twist it and style it into a fantastic torrent of curls and horns and voila… flamboyant tyroshi at illyrio's mixer. oh and don't forget the eyeliner george.

  44. paul.gude
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    Legion, RE: Peter Serafinowicz

    "He can act, but generally takes the same role."

    True enough, as far as most stuff I've seen him in…but I was amazed to see his "50 impressions" spoof and solo stuff.

    Depending on which way they want to go with Stannis, I think he might work. He's younger than Mark Addy, but seems older than he is, and can play stern.

    However, I could see him do just about anything.

  45. legion_quest666
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    I can't agree with you on that one, but if he was t land Stannis, sure, I'd go with it

  46. lex
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    I still think GRRM's cameo probably needs to be a silent role, as he has a VERY strong American accent, and I doubt he can do a convincing British one.

    Personally, I'd like to see him as some kind of bumbling servant, being yelled at by some noble lord.

  47. lordnedshead
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    I've got the cameo hands down!
    GRRM (and possibly Parris) as mummers in the whore house.

    Not singers mind you (perhaps for the chorus). But "playing" instruments behind a singer.

    Round of the Bear and the Maiden Fair anyone?

  48. niceshot
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    I'd like to see George as Jon Arryn. How hard is it to be a corpse, really?

  49. lordnedshead
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    Not a bad one niceshot but I think I read somewhere that the corpse scene was qritten out.

  50. Brude
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    Hmmm, maybe GRRM could play Septon Utt…::shiver::

  51. paul.gude
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Legion,

    I'll totally take an endorsement of Peter Serafinowicz as Stannis, even if it includes a rejection of "just about anything" from you.

    Hooray!

  52. invertebrae
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    @legion

    McShane for Davos? I can see him as the Onion Knight.

    …ryan

  53. lordnedshead
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

    McShane seems too old for me. I could see him as Stannis maybe but he wouldn't be my first choice for that role.

  54. gofalcons
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    I would love for McShane to be in this but can't quite figure out where. Far too old for Stannis, could work as Davos but they would need to get a couple of amazing actors to play Stannis and Melisandre to make that believable. I keep thinking of him for the Blackfish, except his coloring is all wrong. I suppose that could just make him all the more of a black sheep, though. Barristan Selmy? He'd be great as Jeor Mormont as well but I want him to have a bigger part than that. How old is Mance Rayder or Great Jon Umber?

    I really think this would be a case where you could ignore the physical descriptions in the book in order to put a great actor in a great role and everyone would be happy.

  55. invertebrae
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    @theheadoflordned

    you mean he's too old for davos, or too old to be in GoT?

    if it's the former, i'd argue davos has older sons, and salt and pepper hair (beard at least?).

    and if it's the latter, well no comment.

    …ryan

  56. invertebrae
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    mance should be in his 30's i'd reckon. isn't their speculation that he's craster's son? or was that confirmed, i don't remember.

    …ryan

  57. Brienne
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    Hi everyone! I could see him (McShane) as Halfhand if we were willing to wait a while. His exit would be riveting, but that would also mean his time on the series would be limited. Then again, isn't everybody's? ;)

  58. lordnedshead
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Yeah Ryan sorry. I meant for Davos. Your points definately make it possible for him to play Davos, its just a personal preference for me that he doesn't. McShane needs a role with teeth in it. While I love Davos he's not neccesarily the most colorful character in the series. I've always kind of viewed him as akin to Ned in his beliefs and demeanor. McShane would be a nice Tywin or perhaps the Old Bear but I just don't like him for Davos.

  59. Paul Gude
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    Lordnedshead,

    Davos was older than Stannis, in my opinion. I might be wrong on that, but Stannis is younger than Robert, and Robert's children are younger than at least some of Davos' sons.

  60. Paul Gude
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    As far as Davos goes, for me he's kind of an empty vessel. When I first was reading him, I couldn't get into him until a friend of mine mentioned that he always thought of Davos as Robert Carlyle. Suddenly, the character opened up for me.

    Obviously, Robert Carlyle won't be available, but it got me thinking about how much the actor playing Davos will be able to take over that role.

  61. lordnedshead
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    That goes to my point PG. I have no doubt McShane could pull off thoughtful, quiet and introspective, bt his talent would be wasted on the role imo.
    As far as the age thing goes, I've always pictured him of the same approx age as Stannis. Stannis however is a much older soul than Davos so I could see someone a bit older playing the part.
    I'm not in a research-capable mood right now. Anyone wanna check the timelines and estimate the ages of the Baratheon boys?

  62. Demokritos
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    @Lordnedshead
    I agree. Davos is a subtle, understated character, and definitely a lot like Ned (Though much more of a pragmatist, so better at the game of thrones). I think that's one of the good things about him as a character, but it also definitely means some actors would be more interesting in roles other than his.

    @Paul Gude
    I've always thought Davos is older than Stannis, too. Robert was quite prolific, so a lot of his kids were probably fostered pretty young. Davos may be in the same boat, having been a pirate and all, but since the sons we know about seem to be legitimate, he was probably at least 16-ish by the time he had them, probably older since you have to account for some serious pirating in his youth, during which a wife would be a burden.

    I don't quite agree with Davos being an empty vessel. I do think he's a subtle character that seems a bit drab compared to most others in the books, though, and that the right actor will be able to make him come alive in a way that's uniquely theirs, whereas with most others a big part of success will just be in capturing exactly what George wrote. Not that Davos is lacking, exactly, just that he's a little more open to interpretation because of his somewhat understated personality.

  63. lordnedshead
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

    Oh also I think Davos has some little ones with the wife back home as well as the ones we meet with the fleet. It does seem as though Davos started making babies a few years before Robert though.

  64. lordnedshead
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    At least the legitimate ones ;P

  65. About Yea High
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

    Michael Sheen is the best Davos for me, and there are a couple other people I could name. But Ian McShane? As Davos?

    Dudes. I loved Deadwood. But no way. No waaaay. Davos is a worrier. I don't want to see Ian McShane debase himself in a hand-wringing moralistic quandary role like that.

    It would literally toss me for a 180.

    If we're getting McShane, we need to keep his badassery intact, and onion smuggling doesn't do it. Davos hedges and hems and haws and … no. Nooooo. Podrick Payne is a bolder man than the Onion Knight.

    McShane has a patented look – like a pre-Star Wars Samuel L. Jackson – that you're so fucking dead look. Davos never gets the look. McShane also has a "Oh, really, that's amusing, now eat my shotgun muzzle" look that Davos would never get.

    McShane needs to play either coldly conniving or hard-ass ruthless.

    I can only think of Randyl Tarley, maybe. Or maybe the Old Bear.

    That's about it.

  66. Ausir
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

    @About Yea High

    "Dudes. I loved Deadwood. But no way. No waaaay. Davos is a worrier. I don't want to see Ian McShane debase himself in a hand-wringing moralistic quandary role like that."

    I guess you haven't seen McShane on Kings, have you?

  67. Smoldering Hound
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    the trouble is all the roles I'd think of for McShane are too small:

    Amory Lorch
    Roose Bolton (i would also see William Macy in this role if it weren't so small)
    Illn Payne
    Balon Greyjoy
    Tywin Lannister

  68. lordnedshead
    Posted October 22, 2009 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

    McShane is still a badass in Kings. Its definately more understated than it was in Deadwood but he's still not someone you wanna mess with.
    Davos admittedly feels small in the company he keeps. McShane should play a character with arrogance.

  69. random221b
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:03 am | Permalink

    @lordnedshead

    McShane would be a nice Tywin or perhaps the Old Bear but I just don't like him for Davos.

    Holy crap, yes! As soon as you said "Tywin" and I pictured McShane in my head, I saw it vividly.

    Yes, he's got the wrong coloration. So what, so does Lena Headey. That intensity, power, leadership, ruthlessness, odd wisdom…all the things that he showed either in Deadwood, or Kings, or both, make him a perfect Tywin. I don't care if–on the surface–he looks nothing like Tywin is described in the books. Makeup magic can fix that. He's got *it.*

    Consider this my vote for McShane as Tywin. =)

    Best,

    ~~~~Random

  70. Demokritos
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:26 am | Permalink

    @About Yea High
    I think you're selling Davos short, there. Before I get going, I'm not arguing McShane should play him, just that he's a bolder man than you give him credit for.

    Melisandre is a coldhearted bitch who can and will kill anyone who gets in her way. As we (and Davos) know, she doesn't need to rely on the standard methods limited by distance, walls and guards. Behaving in an openly hostile or antagonistic way in his situation would not be bold, it would be idiotic. Cressen teaches this lesson pretty well. So he's in a very, very dangerous and unpredictable situation, where if he decides to directly defy her, he has no way of knowing what means she might have to exact revenge, and therefore has no way to prepare a reliable defense for himself or his family.

    On top of this, Davos's motivations play a big part. Davos doesn't want power, Davos wants a good life for himself and his family. Granted, this simply doesn't make for bold action, but it means you can't assume that boldness isn't there. I think Davos has a lot of "Oh, really, that's amusing, now eat my shotgun muzzle" looks in him. He just knows when not to use them, and with Melisandre in the picture that's basically all the time.

    When it comes right down to it, for the defiance he does show to Melisandre, knowing full how easily she can exact revenge, Davos probably has the biggest pair of balls in Westeros. Davos speaks out against her to Stannis, and helps Edric Storm escape her. And, based on the POV list for ADwD, he's still alive. Davos is bold as all hell, he's just not showy about it.

  71. coltaine777
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:11 am | Permalink

    Melisandre might be cold hearted but it's war and in war there's no right or wrong , there's just winning and losing….the victors write history ….she sees a bigger threat on the horizon '….the OTHERS…she's trying to prepare for that….I still don't know how George can wrap up the civil war and deal with tthe Others in three books….it's not gonna happen…get ready for a 10 book series people!

  72. coltaine777
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:15 am | Permalink

    I also think that through Melisandre we will learn more details about the Others and come to understand how horrrific the future may be….she is the new POV….I think LOL

  73. sven20
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:33 am | Permalink

    I love Ian McShane but I have a hard time seeing him as Tywin. He looks more like one of the Ironborn to me.

  74. Marko
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:36 am | Permalink

    @Legion: I agree about McShane, would be nice to find a role for him, I mentioned that once before.

    Concerning George: there are drunkards spilling into the street, singing The Bear and the Maiden Fair. One of them could easily be him.

  75. Demokritos
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:50 am | Permalink

    @Coltaine
    I'm not sure about Melisandre's intentions. She doesn't seem sincere to me. At best, she believes the Others are coming and is trying to position herself so she comes out on top if they're defeated. At worst, she really doesn't care about anything but claiming power for herself.

    Her behavior indicates that she doesn't believe Stannis is really Azor Ahai reborn (Cajoling and coercing him instead of letting him call the shots, magically making his sword glow instead of expecting it to actually become the Lightbringer, etc.), which means she either

    A) Hopes to usurp the true Azor Ahai Reborn via Stannis as her puppet, in spite of the fact that this would hinder the the fight against the Others by dividing loyalties, or

    B) She doesn't believe Azor Ahai will be reborn, in which case she could still could be doing a much better job preparing to fight the
    Others by attempting to inform all sides about them from a neutral position, instead of connecting herself with Stannis and attempting to push him forward as King.

    Anyway, this doesn't really affect whether Davos is badass or not :)

    You're right that Melisandre is almost certainly the new POV, but I'm not sure she knows more about the Others than we do. She might have some old prophecies with cryptic information, but she strikes me as someone who's good at seeming like she knows more than she does, so I doubt she has any solid details. We should definitely get confirmation on her motives, though.

    @Sven
    I agree. He looks like a Balon to me. Maybe Euron or Victarion, depending on who ends up with the most time alive in the end…

  76. Manda
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    @Baratheon ages
    Robert was 15 or 16 when he fathered Mya Sttone in the Vale. She's 18 now so Robert would have been around 33 or 34 at the time he was killed. I'd put Stannis at 30 or so, maybe 31, and Renly we know was 21. i'm pretty sure that Stannis says something about Renly being just a boy at Storm's End and Cressen says/thinks something similar.

  77. Marko
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 6:11 am | Permalink

    @Manda: nice calculation. Fits with how I imagined it (Stannis is an old soul, as people mentioned before, and although younger, he should be close to Robert in age for the same effect). The people we hope to see on screen will be and will look proportinally older.

    Yay, they start shooting outdoor in Scotland first!

  78. Knurk
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    I can't believe how friggin' great David&Dan are handling us fans. They're getting everyone pumped up and make us part of the project. What an excellent managers in real life they must be!

    And if I wasn't overexcited already, Martin Gruber astonishes me with his second Eis und Feuer (love that German translation!) trailer. It's even better than the first one, it's been playing here all morning!

    Martin's cameo? I say make him the Other!

  79. Knurk
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    You can see how excited I am by all the exclamation marks I'm using…

  80. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    I have to admit that I also saw McShane doing something a little against currrent type for him and playing Davos.

    Davos is still a strong man, he's just very quite and I still think he has a lot of milage in him as a character (regardless of the White Harbour mention).

    I can't see him as Tywin because of height, but he certainly has the presence and I want him in it so much, I'd go for it if it happened.

    I can see where Iron Born is coming from, but beyond Harris Harlaw, no adult Iron Born really gets a look in. Victarion is a follower, Aeron is mental, McShane's intnsity wouldnt work in those roles imo. Plus, I'm still loving the idea of getting the Allen family to be the Greyjoys just because the idea amuses me.

    Stannis would be a brilliant choice if not for the difference from the book. However, frankly, more perhaps than any other character I would easily take a change to make Stannis an older brother to Robert (which is how I always read it anyway) and McShane could really play that uptight no nonsense Stannis character perfectly. You could believe why people would follow him and accept having fingers lopped off but stay loyal.

    Yeah, McShane as Davos or Stannis would make Legion and very very very happy viewer.

    Someone contact the people that need contacting to make this happen!!!

  81. shinyteapot
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    If GRRM's cameo were at the feast at Winterfell, somewhere in the background, I'd love to see Lady bite him :p

    There's plenty of places he can fit in, but it shouldn't be a speaking role.

    Robert Carlyle as Davos would be great- but then Robert Carlyle in any role would get my vote. Ian McShane would make a good Halfhand, it might not be a long lasting role but he'd certainly make an impact.

    The actors I really want to see in the series, whatever the role, are still Derek Jacobi (I'd like to see him as Aemon but he may not be old enough- still, imagine him without the old age makeup in flashbacks, he looks like a Targ) and Christopher Eccleston (btw, watch him in this music video, it's a simple idea very well done http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap88Nvq44uQ), who I will keep saying needs to play one of the Greyjoy brothers in the hopes that repeating it enough will make it happen :)

  82. Tim
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    GRRM's Stan Lee moment?
    King's Tourney: in the stands behind Baratheon or Sansa and then at the feast somewhere along the table.
    Wasn't there some throwaway lord that Sansa sat across from and talked to briefly?

  83. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    @shinyteapot

    Couldnt agree more with Jacobi as Aemom. Having CCCCladius as Aemon would cement this as a legendary show.

    Robery Carlyle would be a great Davos alongside a McShane Stannis. Imagine being Melisandre in that company?

    Ecclestone is my Damphair. Just a little bit mental and not a huge committment so he cant get bored and piss off like he tends to do in TV series'.

    In reference to another comment that keep popping up, GRRM as Jon Arryn – isn't GRRM a little….rounder….than Arryn is usually described? It hardly matters though.

  84. invertebrae
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    @legion

    if you think about it a little longer, i think aeron damphair might suit mcshane as well. not as nicely as davos imo, but i think he could pull off the drowned man just fine.

    glad someone sees mcshane working for davos though, thank you! it's funny how typecasting is so prevalent not only amongst fans, but also producers and casting directors. kudos to those willing to take chances and imagine an actor who doesn't normally play a certain role.

    @D&D Re: GRRM's Stan Lee moment

    i agree with whichever posters thought he'd work as a black brother. GRRM belongs up by the wall imo, somewhere cold and bitter, rough and wild.

    however, he might do just as well as a minor wildling.

    would be great if GRRM made a cameo each season, just another thought.

    perhaps he cameo's in the episodes he writes each season?

    :)

    …ryan

  85. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    I think Davos suffers the same fate as Brienne and Catelyn. Because we hear so much of their self-doubt from their POV we don't see exactly what it is they're capable of doing.

    Unlike Gilly, who cries all the time, and Samwell, who's constantly voicing his self-criticism, if we judge them by their actions rather than their inner monologues, they actually do some pretty impressive things.

    Oh, and Demokritos, you said:

    "I don't quite agree with Davos being an empty vessel. I do think he's a subtle character that seems a bit drab compared to most others in the books, though, and that the right actor will be able to make him come alive in a way that's uniquely theirs."

    We might have a different definition of "empty vessel," because that's pretty much exactly what I meant. So, yeah, I agree with you.

  86. Mauberly
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    "It is understood the castle will be used for scenes depicting the courtyard of the fantasy dream realm of Winterfell."

  87. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    @Ryan

    I hate typecasting and see why actors must be worried about it. McShane is suffering from it a bit at the moment, so if he is concerned, he might fancy a more low status character (granted Davos wouldnt show for a few years). Damphair is intense…..but I think it's important he is a bit younger behind a beard to show the importance of his drowned god finding.

    On saying that……I am now more on the McShane as Stannis wagon just because he has that king factor that I really think Stannis has when he isn't lost in his own self rightousness.

    On saying that…..Having him in it anywhere will make me happy, as he I think he is just awesome.

    Intersting tidbit from the BBC. Glad to see they are starting to pay attention.

    Talking of Samwell, as Paul brought him up, do we have any thoughts on who could play him people?

  88. Manda
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    I would love nothing more than a humerous reenactment of The Holy Grail done by the cast of GoT.
    Would make for an excellent extra on the DVD…

  89. Marko
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Cool BBC news, thanks Mauberly!
    Hehe, fantasy dream realm of Winterfell … gives a bit of a wrong impression. Still, after the 40-year winter crap, nothing can vex us too much.

  90. invertebrae
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    @legion

    Stannis would work, thugh i didn't imagine him looking as Irish. I always thought of Davos as more Irish for some reason. And the one thing McShane is good at doing is looking Irish.

    @Manda

    like minds, as when i read the article, the first thing i imagined was bean, dinklage, ehle, headey and coster-walder dancing about. ha!

    …ryan

  91. invertebrae
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    @legion

    if you think about it a little longer, i think aeron damphair might suit mcshane as well. not as nicely as davos imo, but i think he could pull off the drowned man just fine.

    glad someone sees mcshane working for davos though, thank you!

    @D&D Re: GRRM's Stan Lee moment

    i agree with whichever posters thought he'd work as a black brother. GRRM belongs up by the wall imo, somewhere cold and bitter, rough and wild.

    however, he might do just as well as a minor wildling.

    would be great if GRRM made a cameo each season, just another thought.

    perhaps he cameo's in the episodes he writes each season?

    :)

    …ryan

  92. Sauronsbeagle
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    I hope they manage to disguise the gift-shop just inside the gate-house of Doune Castle. :-)

  93. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    @Ryan

    As I said above, with Aeron, I always thought it was important he be quite young; to show both the importance of his conversion and religion to the Iron Born – that they do as he says even though he isnt that old. I'm not sure he's young in the books, but I always saw him as young with a beard rather than just old and mad…..

  94. Darin
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    I see Mr. Martin as a scribe, looking up annoyed because he was disturbed while trying to write (his book).

  95. Stephen
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Hurly from Lost wouldn't be a bad Samwell. That's my first thought.

  96. Stephen
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    legion asked about Hurly up above….

  97. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Hurly is an obvious choice, but too old in comparison to the others cast around him like Kit as Jon.

    It may be an unknown for the role, as young, fat actors aren't hugely seen on tv where the six pack is as required for teenage guys as the size 0 is for women….

  98. Manda
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:06 am | Permalink
  99. Stephen
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Oddly though, is Samwell's age ever mentioned? He's always been strangely ageless in my mind, now that I think about it. It'd actually be interesting, from a dramatic point of view, to have him be a bit older– an older failure, someone who should be "a man grown", teased and made fun of by those a bit younger than himself. It would only accentuate what makes Samwell Sam.

    Of course, Hurly's gotta be crackin' 30, right? eh…. who knows….

  100. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    Legion:

    "fat actors aren't hugely seen on tv"

    See what you did there?

    I agree, Samwell could be the perfect role for some young overweight British actor.

  101. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    That's an interesting take on the Sam character Stephen. It could work, but might make him a bit too pathetic?

    James Corden is a big favourite amongst other casting blogs and things, which might work, but he may be a bit older.

  102. Brude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    "It is understood the castle will be used for scenes depicting the courtyard of the fantasy dream realm of Winterfell."

    Oy! These articles always get this stuff wrong.

    Also, the article was only partially right about it being used for Castle Anthrax in Holy Grail. It was also used for every other castle (Camelot, Swamp Castle, the one the annoying French guys were first in), except for the very end which was shot at at Castle Stalker (the French guys were there too).

  103. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Now that we know that John Picacio is illustrating the 2011 calendar, it begs the question of whether or not the HBO production is going to inform the choices made for the calendar or not.

    So, I asked. I'll let you know if I get an answer.

    In the meantime, what do you guys think?

  104. Stephen
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    Of course, Sam is pretty pathetic. I'm currently in the middle of re-reading ASOS, and, frankly, he's almost _too_ pathetic. I almost need more reason for him to be such a craven sad sack. To me, the age thing would atleast help explain it better.

    As for James Corden– he's a good fit physically, at least. I don't know his work.

    Have you ever noticed though, that "large" actors are always comedians? And Sam really isn't a funny guy. He's played pretty straight. Of course, you could use him for laughs, tweak the character a bit. At least then he'd have a better reason to be around dramatically. He's one of those characters I wanted more dramatic "push" from in the books, and haven't gotten it yet.

  105. Ashli
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    I think Ian McShane would make an amazing Lord Tarly… unfortunately he doesn't pop up until book 4.

  106. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    I dislike Sam, he is possibly my least favourite character that isnt Arya. I'm sure he'll eventually do something useful.

    I think fat guys tend to be comedy actors because fat = funny. You can always get a laugh out of a self depreciating fat joke.

    He'll be an interesting cast anyway, thats for sure.

    @Paul

    John Picacio's art looks slightly cartoony and less realistic than the last set of calander art, but I'm sure he'll do a great job as he has alot of experience, in the scifi bracket anyway.

  107. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    While he may not be right for this role (he's 40, and from the USA) Patton Oswalt did a switch from being a comedian to doing a dramatic turn in Big Fan this year.

    I think it's very similar to our discussion about how you're not going to find any unattractive headshots when looking for Brienne. Hurley on Lost gets brought up so much, in my opinion, because he's the only larger actor some folks have seen in a semi-serious role.

  108. Brude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    There was an actor in some scenes with Tamzin Merchant in her reel who might be a good pick for Sam, though he could be a bit old for the role now (not sure when that particular movie was shot). I couldn't figure out who he is on IMDb. Maybe someone else knows.

  109. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Oh, and Ashli, I threw that suggestion out before and you just reminded me of it.

    As a cameo, if he doesnt want or there cant be found a bigger role, that would be awesome.

    Good call bringing it back up.

  110. Stephen
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Yeah, I hear you on Sam.

    That's always been my major problem with AFFC– him and Brienne have too many chapters. They're both perfectly interesting characters (I loved Brienne when she was alongside Jaime and Catelyn) when they only appear when they need to. I felt like there was too much push to flesh them out, when there wasn't enough for them to do. Bran's felt that way to me too at times.

    Speaking of Brienne– if they were really going to make her ugly, they could give her false teeth. It sounds a bit absurd, but Martin goes in to some depth about them, and it's an easy way to make someone have "pretty eyes" but an ugly smile, so to speak. The rest could get done with makeup– the hair, the nose, etc. I don't think we should expect an ugly actress to play her.

  111. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    The big problem with me picking something for McShane is that:

    1) I want him in something big.
    2) I want him to stick around.

    Davos could totally be that guy, but in order to do it people would have to accept McShane playing someone different than they may be used to seeing.

    If folks want to see him at full-on intensity, I think they'll have to go with characters with less screen-time. Berating recruits and goading Jon into assaulting him as Alliser Thorne could work, and add a little depth to the character just by his mere presence. Lord Tarly, as mentioned. I still think Yoren would be interesting.

    Again, though, all of those are a little too small in my opinion.

  112. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    I love Brienne, she is one of my favourite characters. Her and Pod had better not die, or I will never forgive GRRM (especially for Pod).

    Having now started watching Deadwood, the actress who plays Calamity Jane isn't overly unattractive, but using posture and bits of make up, they made her very much unattractive.

  113. shadallion
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    I also vote for Ian McShane for Tywin.

  114. Hubert
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    I don't care as who but I really would love to have McShane on the show. He is incredible. Loved him on Kings!

    Davos sounds good to me :)

  115. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Yeah, Stephen, Ryan pointed out that we're probably not going to see an unknown for any of the main characters. I keep bringing up Robin Weigert as an example. If you compare her and Calamity Jane side-by-side, you can see that they've done a pretty fair job of making her up.

    Finding an actress with crooked teeth and a broken nose who's done a lot of work is going to be hard.

    Again, I'd prefer a kick-ass unknown, but Ryan's convinced me it probably isn't going to happen.

    (Note: "Unknown" being someone who's never been on TV/Film, vs. a "lesser-known," which is entirely doable.)

  116. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    Heh, Legion. What you said.

    Also, I like the idea of Tywin just because scenes between McShane and Dinklage would be awesome.

  117. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    How about Harry Melling as Sam?

    He's 20 years old and was pretty effective in the opening of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix when they finally let him be a believable thug/bully instead of the cartoon he was made to play in the earlier films. This would be a great chance for him to show some range and get a lot more screen time than he ever got from HP.

    The idea of an older Sam is intriguing but I don't see why Lord Tarly would have waited so long to get rid of the loser.

  118. Stephen
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    I love Brienne too. I just felt like …. her storyline was "under-ripe" to get its own POV by AFFC. There were some great scenes, but also some pretty slow ones too. I felt like her chapters were sometimes more about piecing together clues of other stories than about fleshing out her own character arc. You never get that feeling with Daenerys or John, for example.

    Still, I liked getting to see what it would probably really be like to be a knight on a "quest" or trial– i.e. the brute stubborness required to succeed, the boredom, the total lack of clues at times. Briennes just the type who could do it right. :)

  119. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    gofalcons, I believe, if he stays as a large guy, you may have hit a nail on the head!

  120. Stephen
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    As for Sam and Lord Tarly– you want logic? Logic? HA! I fly in the face of logic if I can make good drama… :P

  121. Jillian
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    I love Ian McShane as much as the nest person, but he's not Tywin. It doesn't make any sense to stress the blonde Lannisters and then have Mcshane be Tywin. He's not my picture of Davos either, but I think that character has a little more flexibility when it comes to appearance. Changing the way Davos looks isn't going to affect the story.

    I doubt he'd do a smaller role but I like the idea of him as Allister Thorne, or someone else on the wall.

  122. Marko
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    I like Harry Melling.

  123. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    legion, once I thought of it I was kind of surprised that no one else had put the idea out before. Typecasting, again, I guess. The characters are so very different on the surface although most bullies are actually cowards at the core.

  124. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    The only issue with him being Ser Alliser is that he'd be taking a bit part cameo who has the issue that it was be a typcast cameo that pops up loads for like 5 minutes. I can't see him committing himself to that.

  125. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    I think we could all agree on McShane as Jeor Mormont. Plus it means he would be alive into the third season.

  126. Jillian
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    That's one reason I don't envy D&D (though overall I envy them very very much). There are so many characters like that come in and out, show up for awhile, disappear. Contract negotiations are going to get tricky.

  127. Mauberly
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    @gofalcons

    Harry Melling has lost weight lately.

  128. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    Then he is useless to us.

    Damn.

  129. Marko
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    I'd be more than happy to have McShane as Jeor Mormont, count me in.

  130. Jillian
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    Yep Jeor Mormont's fine by me.

  131. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    OMG, legion, he's not useless to us! Look again at that picture that Mauberly put up. We just found Renly!

  132. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    If you live in London, you have a chance to see Esmé Bianco live tonight.

    More info here.

    This means, of course, that she isn't filming at the moment.

  133. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Jeor Mormont would work for me, too.

  134. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    I want Jeor to be Brian Cox, so I'm not gonna get on that bandwagon.

    Gonna sound totally unstraight, but I dont think Harry Melling is hot enough to be Renly. I will agree that useless was harsh though, as he could easily be any number of smaller roles like Daeron the singer who goes with Sam (might have got the name wrong there).

  135. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    Legion, I didn't think it was harsh unless you didn't mean the humor I read into it.

  136. Mauberly
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Here's Harry Melling in National Theatre's current play "Mother Courage and Her Children".

  137. Manda
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Brian Cox IS Jeor in my mind. Has been since forever.

  138. Mormegil
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Looks like I was correct when I suggested that it was the courtyard at Doune they were using and not the outside.

    As to McShane, the Old Bear is the only "main" part I can really see him in.

  139. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    @gofalcons,

    It was meant to be a funny aside, but with actors apparently looking in and everything, I didnt want someone emailing his people or anything and then he looks and sees that, so I thought I'd excuse myself just in case as it would be a harsh comment taken out of context.

  140. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    Odd fact: Harry Melling's grandfather was Doctor Who from 1966-1969.

  141. Whiney the Poo Bar
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    1. ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzZzzz…… McShane… zzzz… as … Davos… I have not made the effort to take a look at who McShane is. I am sleepy. But wow. Let me contribute how many times McShane is mentioned. McShane McShane McShane. Wtf is he. I don't care.

    2. Davos is cool, he useta be a Pirate, and now he's a tame dog. Well maybe he will go pirating again, even though he has a family to worry about.. wait, didn't some of the sons die at King's Landing? So let's see Davos go fucking crazy and raise the black flag again.

    I hope he'll go medieval and pirate some shit.

    3. Brienne (the character, not the person posting with that most unfortunate matching moniker) sucks. Delete her, she is completely pathetic. Replace Brienne with Roz when Jaime and her journey to KL. Especially now with that hot actress with fembot answers to fanboy interview questions. Brienne is dead to me. Put her in the show and the show will become automatic 'cult' following (read: only "emotionally wrapped-up people with derailed constructions of her character" will watch it). Brienne isn't even smart, and she's ugly, and she's worthless, and she hates herself and seems neutral about self-preservation… how horrible… Oh my god, that is disgusting.

    4. That fat kid from the Wall. Mostly pathetic, but there's potential.. You can tell he's supposed to be important eventually, but it's taking so long (and pending), and his victories are small and barely noticeable. Re-write! Give him superhuman powers, I say, like the ability to fart in your general directions.

    5. Melisandre. This is a devout, beautiful woman. I am in love with her. There, I said it. She has big boobs, and she's red. And she loves her god or whatever it is. She's the real deal, a prophet and weapon against that cold front that will rain down and threaten all of Westeros this upcoming winter. They are lucky to have this stranger from a strange land come so far to help. Plus, Stannis is horny. His wife isn't receptive. Meli is hot, literally. And, she's a good girl with great aspirations. If you want to be hatin', do it on Stannis' wife who disgusts my sensibilities.

    6. I would like to be your dog now, or some time in the near future.

  142. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Did we ever have a read on who we wanted for Ser Barristan Selmy?

    Going for meta-casting again, someone who used to be known for "hero" type roles but is getting past his prime might be an interesting idea. How old is "too old" for the Kingsguard in the opinion the Lannisters? Would over 60 do it?

    Pulling from the Nina Gold "past cast" list, we have at least one possible contender:

    Timothy Dalton

    Just an idea, not a final pick.

  143. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Dalton would be a brilliant choice, but I think a while ago someone suggested Christopher Plummer and ever since that's who I've seen.

  144. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Word back from John Picacio. The calendar will be completely independent from the HBO production.

    I'm glad to hear this, actually. Keeping ASoIaF a healthy distance from Game of Thrones won't hurt anybody.

  145. zahudica
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    Samwell's age: "Until the dawn of his fifteenth name day, when he had been awakened to find
    his horse saddled and ready." (for the trip to the Wall…) Just sayin' ;)

  146. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Legion, one thing I'm not sure about. Plummer turns 80 on December 13th. I remember people bringing up age as a factor for not wanting to cast Roy Dotrice in a role that involves mostly sitting and talking, with occasional standing.

  147. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Wow, Zahudica, nice find.

    They could age him up like they did the Starks, of course, but that'd still make him a bit of a kid.

    I guess they may throw adherence to the book out the window for the right actor, but I doubt he's going to be in his 30s.

  148. Manda
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    I know he's not British but I always pictured Brett Kelly for Sam. I don't know much about him aside from the fact that he's around 15 or 16 and totally fits my mental image of Sam.

  149. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    I didn't realise Plummer was that old. Wow.

    I'd say with Kit Harrington cast, and the Stark's being aged up, Samwell will match that. In order for him to fit with Jon, who he is with most of the first season.

  150. Fappy
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Whiney,

    You illustrious bore,

    Let me just say now that evidently you are a Troll of the Third Kind. And additionally: You know nothing, Whiney the Poo Bar!

    1. McShane is an amazing actor who deserves to have his face tattooed on Roz' buttocks.

    2. Davos is not a "Harr matey" pirate, he's a smuggler. He smuggled onions, big deal. He should give himself to the drowned god. Delete! Although I heard it from a reliable source that the role would be offered to Ben Stiller who has yet to respond (there is plenty of time).

    3. Brienne is a beautiful woman, on the inside. Her eyes are gorgeous. She is kind hearted and loyal. Jaime fell for her goodness, and I did too. Yes, she has horse teeth but other than that she's my very special favourite. I hope they get the most beautiful and famous and talented actress a million dollars so that she will pose as Adrienne and then you, even you, will like her too.

    4. Samwell clearly is bisexual. I have nothing against these people as long as they stay on their island.

    5. Melisandre, well sire. I don't trust her. No sire I don't one bit. She's so mysterious-like, and we don't even get a chapter in her POV. In my book that means she can't be trusted. I wouldn't give her an ice cube for a moonbeam. Nosirree.

    6. Please let the boy be your dog! He's a GOOD BOY!

    Marty

  151. meggyo
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    How old is Selmy supposed to be? I admit in my head he's always been Sean Connery/Christopher Plummer (goes back in forth) – but I think both are too old now.

    As for Samwell – I've always imagined him as Brett Kelly (the kid from Bad Santa). No idea what he looks like now though.

    I'm not familiar with Ian McShane, but he has an interesting face. Doesn't look like a Davos to me, but then again I've never had a clear image of him.

  152. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    Paul Gude, following your meta-casting I was going to throw Edward Woodward's name into the Selmy ring until I found that he is now 79. He was quite intimidating as the cool and efficiently ruthless Robert McCall on The Equalizer back in the 80's. Plus Nina Gold put him in Hot Fuzz with Rory McGann.

    Would Timothy Dalton want to do the "Whitebeard" schtick? He looks much younger than his 65 years and might not want to plant the idea in casting directors' minds that he's "old".

    Another Bond would be perfect if not for the age issue: Sean Connery!

  153. About Yea High
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Samwell Tarly will be a hard cast. An unknown, like as not. The fat kid from that Tamzin Merchant reel sucked.

    Here: http://grrm.livejournal.com/103138.html

    (scroll down the page a little)

    It did, however, illustrate how diverse she could be, which was nice.

    Ian McShane as Davos is still a no. Robert Carlyle, Michael Sheen, Gary Oldman, yes.

    Tywin is still a tough cast too. My brain always floats to Patrick Stewart, though maybe I'm just typecasting via head shape and general erect posture.

    Ian McShane is far more solid in my mind for the Old Bear Jeor Mormont. C'mon, you could just see McShane giving the thousand-yard "HOW DARE YOU" Swearengen Stare …

    http://media.timeoutnewyork.com/resizeImage/htdocs/export_images/634/634.x600.th.ope.jpg?

    … just before getting shanked at Craster's.

    HTML QUESTION: Why the BLEEP is "http not allowed" on this site any more? I can't freaking link anything. Unless I suddenly turned moron. Did something change between now and the last 15 years I've been doing this?

  154. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Mormont – Brian Cox

    Davos – Robert Carlyle

    Stannis – Ian McShane

    That is my meta-cast for those three.

    Gotta agree with gofalcons re. age and Dalton, i'd imagine that'd be something actors worry about.

    Connery is retired. He wont come out of it for GoT unless he's a fan imo.

  155. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    AYH, just start your links without the http:// and it should be fine.

    I did your link here that way.

  156. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    oops, no I didn't.

  157. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    AYH, at any rate I'm not having problems with http. Your link in http

  158. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Legion, RE: McShane as Stannis:

    I love McShane, and I want him to be in this. I just can't see Stannis going from Robert's younger brother in the books to being 22 years older in the series.

    They could do it, I just don't think they will.

    As Ryan would point out, I have a conflict of interest because I want to see PeterSerafinowicz as Stannis. Still, though, McShane's old enough to be Addy's dad.

    (Okay, his daughter Kate is 7 years younger than Addy, but you get the idea.)

  159. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    legion, I have no problem with Stannis being older than Robert but not by 22 years. How about this:

    Brian Cox = Barristan Selmy
    Ian McShane = Jeor Mormont

    I'll take Robert Carlyle as Davos although if the new Stargate has any success he would probably be too busy. Same problem with my choices:

    Tim Roth = Davos
    Gary Oldman = Stannis

  160. Mormegil
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    Selmy is about 60 years old in the book.

    Acting wise we'd need some one of at least fifty (who could be aged up a bit) I would think.

  161. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Gary Oldman would never do it. When was the last time he did TV? He's awesome as an actor, but it just wouldnt happen.

    Cox is too 'round' for Selmy I'd have thought.

    I shall stick with my meta-cast above, but, agree that Carlyle being on Stargate means he likely wont be free for GoT.

  162. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    You want meta-casting? I'll give you meta-casting:

    Davos = Geoffrey Rush

  163. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Mormegil, the way things seem to be going though 60 in the book means 65-70 on TV.

    Legion, I know Oldman would never do it (unless this turns into "THE THING TO DO") but I can dream can't I?

  164. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Of course you can. Sorry if I sounded like I was saying you can't.

  165. meggyo
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Oh…would love Carlyle as Davos. I recall reading that a main character from this new Stargate series is not supposed to live out the first season. Maybe him?

    Oldman would be a nice choice too, but yeah, I don't think he's likely to do TV. Then again his schedule looks pretty free on imdb. ;)

  166. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Wow, legion, that's twice today you've apologized for things no one is taking offense at. With the talent they've put together for the pilot I have to think they'll keep it up for the series. I'm not all that familiar with Brian Cox (outside of Kings) but I'll take your recommendation of him. On taking a second look, I have to agree that Brian Cox doesn't have the build I pictured for Selmy either, though that's no reason not to cast him. I like the world-weariness of him.

  167. meggyo
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    Okay, if we're going with 65-70 as the age bracket for TV Selmy – how about Patrick Stewart? He's right in that range. To be honest, he's more how I envision Tywin, but I think he could do Selmy okay.

  168. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    meggyo, if GRRM were writing Stargate you could pretty take it to the bank that Dr. Rush would be the one who dies in the first season. He is the center of the show, after all. Somehow I just don't see syfy being that bold.

  169. meggyo
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    @gofalcons

    LOL, you're probably right. I will keep my fingers crossed anyway. ;)

  170. Manda
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    Ohhh, Patrick Stewart. He has a good build, doesn't look frail for his age or anything like that. I agree that his bearing could pass for Tywin but Selmy is a distinguished knight; I'd think he'd be able to get that noble air about him…
    And I'm a sucker for Patrick Stewart's voice…

  171. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Other possibilities for Selmy:

    Charles Dance – Just 'cause I think he can do it
    Rutger Hauer – Various action films
    Anthony Andrews – Was the Scarlet Pimpernel

    Obviously, Liam Neeson would work, but I doubt he'd do TV.

  172. Mr. Donnerfaust
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Anybody mentioned McShane as Craster? That would be a killer guest role!

  173. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    Patrick Stewart would work fine, in my opinion, meggyo.

  174. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Patrick Stewart is too…….nice to by Tywin in my mind.

    Despite the book description, I always saw Tywin as Bill Nighy

  175. Silverstar
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    Charles Dance is Tywin. He just … is.

  176. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    I was talking about Patrick Stewart as Selmy, by the way.

    I really want a Grade-A hard bastard for Tywin.

  177. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, I can also back that Silverstar.

  178. random221b
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    Ok, tried to post this morning, and it wouldn't work, so trying again…

    First off, glad to see a couple other people agreeing with the Ian McShane as Tywin thing. I really think he's perfect. I knew when I started championing him (someone else suggested it first, in a kind of offhand way, and I got very excited by the idea, LOL) I expected there would be a number of "he's not blonde/too dark/wrong coloration" oppositions to him. There weren't as many as I expected, but for those that there were…Lena Heady who is playing Cersei has the same issue, but obviously they are confident that when hair and makeup are done with her, that won't matter. I would have the same faith in McShane as Tywin.

    That said, I could see him as Lord Mormont, as well. Wouldn't be my first choice, because McShane does calculating, arrogant, and supremely confident in his power *so* well, that he just screams Tywin to me. But, take the arrogance away and but a more positive spin on things, and a lot of those qualities would work for Mormont as well, so I could support that.

    However, McShane as Stannis is just a big no for me. Not because he couldn't do it–I have no doubt he could perform the hell out of it–but mainly because of the whole age thing. Changing Stannis to be Robert's older brother would not work…ok, I won't say it *absolutely* wouldn't work, but it creates a lot of problems. First of all, Robert's "claim" to the throne was shaky enough to begin with. Yes, he won the throne through strength of arms, but there was the need for at least some veneer of legitimacy, in order to get the smallfolk to buy into it and other nobles to support it. If Robert weren't even the eldest of his family, that takes away what little shaky legitimacy he had. No matter what your lineage…if you're not the eldest male, then you're not the heir, in Westeros. Plus, Stannis's whole character is centered on his absolute refusal to bend on the fact that he is legally and legitimately Robert's heir, when Robert dies. He is all about what is legal and proper and correct…he's very formal. He will *not* conceded the kingship because the law says it is his. Change that, and you lose a central part of who Stannis is. Don't change that, and you've got a Stannis who would never in a million years support his younger brother (Robert) as the legitimate heir to the throne.

    Plus, Stannis is a true middle child. Robert is the eldest that everyone looks up to and expects great things from…the big hero. Renly is the baby, that everyone fawns over and adores. And Stannis is the middle child that everyone sort of forgets about…desperate for attention, to get people to notice him and acknowledge him.

    His unbending adherence to the "rules" and middle-child struggle to escape his elder brother's shadow and younger brother's "golden child" persona make Stannis who he is, and those elements don't work with a Stannis who is the eldest. I don't care how great McShane is, the plot/character troubles such a change would make aren't worth having him in that role.

    Now, I have no doubt McShane could do a fine job as Stannis, but it would kind of be a waste of all the things he does *so* well. And that's not to mention the problem I've already discussed with having Stannis be older than Robert.

    Anyway, those are my thoughts. Take them as you will.

    On a whole separate note, I will say, I could get behind Patrick Stewart as Selmy. =)

    Best,

    ~~~~Random

  179. Davey
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Wow! That Ian McShane sho' has that look on 'em, that says "don't mess with this guy!" Whoooaaa! Don't kill me with those eyes like swords! LAWZ

    Patrick Stewart is suuuuuch a TEDDY BEAR! I loved him role as the homosexual captain of the enterprise! He made it ok for men EVERYWHERE to be cool and smart–and SUPER-savvy. I would just LOVE him in ANY role in the GOT.

    As for the MYRIAD of other SUPER-DUPER actors are being mentioned, I don't know! LAWLZ. I can't keep up with all the AMAZING blabbermouths on this blogster! LAWLZ.

    I cunt WAIT to read this blog on my iPhone in bed comfy and snugs tonight. It never fails to bring the SANDMAN 'round.

    LAWLZ

  180. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    Dance would work as Tywin for me.

  181. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    However, McShane as Stannis is just a big no for me. Not because he couldn't do it–I have no doubt he could perform the hell out of it–but mainly because of the whole age thing. Changing Stannis to be Robert's older brother would not work…ok, I won't say it *absolutely* wouldn't work, but it creates a lot of problems. First of all, Robert's "claim" to the throne was shaky enough to begin with. Yes, he won the throne through strength of arms, but there was the need for at least some veneer of legitimacy, in order to get the smallfolk to buy into it and other nobles to support it. If Robert weren't even the eldest of his family, that takes away what little shaky legitimacy he had. No matter what your lineage…if you're not the eldest male, then you're not the heir, in Westeros. Plus, Stannis's whole character is centered on his absolute refusal to bend on the fact that he is legally and legitimately Robert's heir, when Robert dies. He is all about what is legal and proper and correct…he's very formal. He will *not* conceded the kingship because the law says it is his. Change that, and you lose a central part of who Stannis is. Don't change that, and you've got a Stannis who would never in a million years support his younger brother (Robert) as the legitimate heir to the throne.

    I hate this argument. History is litered with younger brother who get to the throne and just have their older brothers around them as important lords.

    While it doesnt follow the general pattern, it has precedent and, frankly, works better as the throne should pass up, rather than down.

    Stannis is then even more pissed, not because he was younger, but because he was always second best even though he was the elder to both of them. Loyal because Robert won the throne, but always looking over peoples shoulders because he is older.

    I like the middle child thing you bring up, but I never get the sense that Stannis is looking for attention, as much as he is doing it because it is right. He is rightly the next in line, like it or not.

  182. meggyo
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    @legion
    Nighy is an interesting choice for Tywin. Can't really see it, but I admit it does intrigue me. Not sure he's hard enough though.

    As I said before, Stewart looks-wise was how I pictured Tywin, but I'm perfectly happy to have him as Selmy. And the more I think about it the more I do think he's better suited for Selmy.

    Been giving a bit of thought to Stannis. Sorry, McShane doesn't work for me due to the age. How about Rufus Sewell? Could shave his head…or let him keep his hair (Stannis' hair – or lack of it – is not all that important to me). I've always thought he has a rather hard look about him that is Stannis-like, and he's younger than Addy so works age-wise too.

  183. Manda
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    @meggyo

    Wow. Rufus Sewell fits the Stannis in my head perfectly. I never realized it until you mentioned him though.

  184. sven20
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Clancy Brown was always Tywin in my head. That dude just exudes intimidation. But I realize he's not very likely to get the part because he's not British.

    And no he's not too tall.

  185. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    I think the age thing is something that I am ignoring, but this is likely because I never see Stannis as younger than Robert and to hell with what the books says.

  186. Lauren
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    I agree with Sewell as Stannis. He's got a good brooding look to him.

    Also, I really like McShane for Mormont. It's a win. For realz.

  187. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    "I hate this argument. History is litered with younger brother who get to the throne and just have their older brothers around them as important lords."

    I prefer sticking with the argument that Stannis is younger than him in the books.

    Meggyo, Rufus Sewell and James Frain are of a similar type for me. I think they would work with Stannis being sort of a hollow man being propped up by Melisandre.

  188. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    "I think the age thing is something that I am ignoring, but this is likely because I never see Stannis as younger than Robert and to hell with what the books says."

    I totally hear you on this. I thought of him as older as well.

    Still, that's a fact that I doubt the producers of the show are going to ignore.

    Of course, I could be wrong.

  189. random221b
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    @legion

    I hate this argument. History is litered with younger brother who get to the throne and just have their older brothers around them as important lords.

    While it doesnt follow the general pattern, it has precedent and, frankly, works better as the throne should pass up, rather than down.

    Stannis is then even more pissed, not because he was younger, but because he was always second best even though he was the elder to both of them. Loyal because Robert won the throne, but always looking over peoples shoulders because he is older.

    I like the middle child thing you bring up, but I never get the sense that Stannis is looking for attention, as much as he is doing it because it is right. He is rightly the next in line, like it or not.

    Except that argument doesn't work *for this specific situation.* Yes, history is littered with such things. Yes, it could happen. But if you make it the case with this specific situation, you have to change more than just Stannis's age. You have to change much of why he is the way he is. GRRM didn't just make him the middle brother on a whim. The fact that he is the middle brother figures intimately into his personality and motivations.

    The law in Westeros says eldest son is the heir. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions to that rule, but Stannis is not of man of exceptions. never has been, never will be. It's at the core of *who he is.* If the law says eldest male child is heir, period, then Stannis would never have supported Robert when Robert laid claim to the Iron Throne. Stannis would have held the position of "if the Baratheon claim is valid at all, then it's *my* throne, and not yours. Anyone who thinks there is *any* way Stannis's position could have been other than that, without changing the fundamentals of his character, I fear doesn't have a clear view of who he is presented as, in the books.

    Stannis is rigid. He doesn't bend. He doesn't compromise. He believes in the strict letter of the law. It's the defining characteristic of who he is. In order for him to have supported a younger brother for the throne, would be to say he went against all of that, and would fundamentally change his character.

    I'm sorry, but that's just the reality. yes, the situation of a younger brother having the throne over a loyal elder brother *could* happen. It is certainly not out of the realm of possibility, either in history or in Westeros. Plenty of example exist. But for that to be the case in *this* situation, it would alter who Stannis is.

    I'm sure there will be disagreements, but I have given this a lot of thought. GRRM has made the birth order of characters important in a number of situations throughout the books. It effects plots and personalities both. Something like that can't just be changed without having a ripple effect on so many other things.

    Again, just my thoughts, but I think they are fairly well thought out.

    Best,

    ~~~~Random

  190. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    Rutger Hauer has the meta-casting to be Selmy, but he has the nose to be NCW's dad and he is great at playing the hard-ass. Rutger Hauer for Tywin.

    Ian McShane as Craster? Not how I picture one the creepiest people in literature. Any intimidation Craster musters comes from the fact he is a total loon and you never know what he might do. Ian McShane would be intimidating but far too calculating for the role. I'm thinking more Brad Dourif for Craster.

    Love Patrick Stewart but he seems a little too slender and delicate to be a knight. I'm not sure where he would fit. He could make Syrio work for him but that's a role for a stouter man, I think.

    Not familiar with Charles Dance, but I love his look for Selmy. Not familiar with Anthony Andrews either but he looks a little "foppish." Maybe Mace Tyrell?

    If they could get Liam Neeson to do this he's my Qhorin Halfhand.

    @Random –

    It would change the character to make Stannis older, I agree. I get the whole middle child thing. But from a psych 101 standpoint it works just as well to make him older. The kingdom should have been his in the first place but Robert took that from him and now Renly is trying to do the same. Serious issues there, different issues, but still serious. As far as the politics go, if the smallfolk cared (and could do anything about it) wouldn't they be clamoring for the return of Viserys? He's the rightful heir to the throne.

  191. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    As I just said, I say screw the books on this matter because Stannis always sounds and acts older to me. Always read it that way.

    Sewell doesnt look anything like the Stannis I pictured, Frain is more like it…….but I still dont like it.

    McShane for Stannis, I went with, because I think Stannis has a lot of internal strength but is so measured and stuck in his ordered rut that he never acts. McShane has that internal strength.

    I don't know how they will play it in the show if it gets commissioned, but I still say making Stannis older makes more sense as having a younger man……i dunno……..I just didnt see Stannis as young.

  192. meggyo
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    @legion

    I could overlook age to a point…but 22 years is just too much of an age gap for me to accept between Robert and Stannis.

    @Paul Gude

    Funny you should mention Frain because I was looking at him as well. For me though Frain doesn't seem quite tough enough to be Stannis. I'm just used to seeing Frain as more of the scheming-in-the-background character (sort of like Littlefinger).

  193. random221b
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Ok, I could definitely see Rufus Sewell as Stannis, myself. =) Especially with a beard–even a super-close-cropped one like Stannis is described as having. Without facial hair, Sewell's jawline always looks a little soft to me.

    I can understand the feeling of disregarding Stannis being younger, and thinking of him as older. He *feels* older, in the books. He feels like a cross between rigid, angry youth and a tired, old man. But the fact that is *is* the middle brother is very much a factor in who he is and what he does. A younger brother who feels older is not the same as an actual older brother. It changes the whole dynamic.

    Best,

    ~~~~Random

  194. Fappy
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Davey,

    You inextricable dingleberry; you bull's pizzle.

    First of all, P. Stewie was NOT gay as Jean Luc Picard. He was straight, and very much so, and loved women and BOOBS. Just as any Captain of the Enterprise ought to.

    I am not gay, but I do like Patrick Stewart even in some of his more flamboyant roles. He is a good actor and a great body, and I would love him a variety of positions. I very firmly stand behind him. I believe him to be a very handsome man, and could be well endowed in Game of Thrones, which is quickly fleshing up and out into the future. Patrick has sensational acting chops. I have seen him partially nude. I love vaginas.

    As for the other guy, McShane, one single ounce of his acting as bad-boy-McDude is infinitely better than your ridiculous facade as a veritable GoT fanboy, when it's ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that you come here simply to insult and disrupt a serious discussion and much guessin' and discussin' possible GoT actors for HBO's pleasure and our leisure that could very well earn another website some props by D&D.

    By the way, I think that Ian McShane would be a great Tarly.

  195. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    With the age thing, I didnt realise that McShane was so old or that Addy was that young.

    I concede that he wouldnt work from that standpoint, but continue to back the idea of Stannis being older.

  196. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    I get where you are coming from Random, but I never get the sense from Stannis that he is a Middle Child in the classic sense.

    He doesnt go out of his way to get attention or to prove himself. He is just Stannis. He is the legitimate heir and that's how it is. He isn't weak, he isn't hollow, he is just rigid.

    Stannis appears to believe that the end justifies the means, but that things need to be done with the law. Backing his brother in a rebellion was against that characteristic, so imagining that he would back his brother for the throne, expecting to get Storm's End but having it taken away (which in itself helps to build him up – he was the legitimate heir to Storm's End but Robert took it away)…….I just prefer reading Stannis as older than Robert.

  197. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Random, I imagine that George made Stannis the middle brother because it makes sense from the whole "Robert's Rebellion"/legal rights angle. I suspect you are reading the "middle child" angle into for some personal reason. I'm not accusing, we all read things in for personal reasons. That's what makes these books so great. (See previous threads on San/San, Catelyn, etc…)

    It would be a different dynamic – not better, not worse, just different – if the ages were to be changed. Certainly wouldn't ruin the show for me.

  198. random221b
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    @legion

    As I just said, I say screw the books on this matter because Stannis always sounds and acts older to me. Always read it that way.

    [snip]

    I don't know how they will play it in the show if it gets commissioned, but I still say making Stannis older makes more sense as having a younger man……i dunno……..I just didnt see Stannis as young.

    I honestly mean no offense at all, and I truly hope this doesn't read as snarky or anything, but…it doesn't really matter how Stannis *feels* to you.

    I mean, yes, it does matter in terms of whether you will enjoy the portrayal of the character in the show and how much, and that's a legitimate concern for you. But to suggest that it's fine to make Stannis the older brother because he *feels* older to you, is to disregard the idea that GRRM made him the middle brother for a reason. He is a younger brother who acts older. That's a very specific character choice that Martin made when writing him. To suggest that Martin's specific choice of how to portray the character doesn't really matter, and it's fine to just make him the eldest, I think does a disservice to the author's work.

    I'm really not trying to be a jerk here, and I really hope I'm not coming across as one. I just feel like you're being very dismissive of a choice the author made, possibly–I think likely–for very good reasons, that factor very much into who the character is and how he behaves, by saying that it can just be ignored and he would work just fine and just as well and just the same as an eldest brother.

    Best,

    ~~~~Random

  199. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    Also, concerning the smallfolk's need to buy into the legitimacy of Robert's reign (back me up here, legion, you're the historian): as long as the crops are coming in, taxes aren't unreasonable and they're safe from marauders, peasants don't give a damn who sits on the throne.

  200. Daniel
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    Anyone else notice Esme's hair redder than usual?

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3340186&id=158691396535

    I'm wondering if that's for her scene in GoT

  201. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    gofalcons is right, the little people in Westeros couldnt give a toss who plays the Game of Thrones, as long as they are ok.

    Now, random, you didnt come across as Snarky, you are right, it doesnt matter what I feel as far as what GRRM wrote.

    But frankly, as a fan, I get to criticise and say what i would prefer and what I like. I have criticised GRRM before his portrayal of Arya and do so again here. Regardless of what it says, Stannis is written, to me, like an older brother. To you, he is written as the middle child.

    So be it. That's the glory of WiC blog comments. We all agree and disagree and discuss why and such. Sometimes we change each others minds, sometimes we dont.

    You wont get me to change how I 'WANT' to see Stannis shown anymore than I could get an Arya fan to agree she's horribly under emotional and deals with things far too easily.

    I disregard GRRM's story when it suits me to do so because thats how I read the books and because it's a small issue. It's like how months ago I was saying I read Melisandre as black. It isn't what the book says, but it's what I have seen in my mind, which, in the end, is surely what a book is for? To give you a way to create an imaginary world? Sometimes an imagination sees things differently even to what it written.

  202. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    I do hope that isn't Esme's dye job for AGOT. I was hoping for a natural look.

  203. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Esme Bianco's "starmeter" is up 97% on imdb this week.

    Go Esme!

  204. Davey
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    @gofalcons

    Gods, why would they? They're only peasants! LAWLZ

    I'm really not trying to be a jerk here, but I can't help myself. I just feel like you think peasants are an unthinking bunch, like fish in a pond.

    Historically? Surely you don't mean a Social Historical point of view, but rather a political one. I believe you are being very dismissive of an important part of the populous, the would-be fourth estate if you will. To compare GRRM's books to history books truly does the author and the fans a disservice.

    What about Flea Bottom I ask of you? Whaddabout the Black Brothers? Waddabout the Silent Sisters? Waddabout the poor wandering priests?

    Oh the humanity!

  205. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    Peasants don't matter. Peasants slow things down and make everything worse. Whenever, in history, peasants start thinking they can get involved in things, everything goes to shit and peasants end up dead.

    Stay at home, tend your crops, and let the lords play the Game of Thrones, cos in that game, win or lose, peasants always die.

  206. Fappy
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Davey,

    You unscrupulous attention monger,

    In case you haven't noticed, no one gives a rat's flying privates about your unwittingly dull contributions. I think it would be best if you returned whence you came, below that bridge where the Trolls do Thrive.

    As a beside, I believe that McShane would serve a wonderful Tully. He has that look that says: "yo, I'm bad-ass!". I believe 20-30 years can be fuzzed out by makeup easily.

  207. Paul J
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    It's important to me that they keep all the significant characters exactly the same as in the books. Don't change anything about them. Aging some people up a little is fine, but don't change their relative ages.

    Also don't change anything significant about the plot. What they can change all they want is how the story is told, what scenes are shown, etc. Treat the facts in the book as fact, keep all the characters the same, but tell the story however you want.

    This means no making Stannis older than Robert :)

  208. Paul J
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    @legion

    You can see things in your mind any way you want, but I hope you wouldn't make them that way on screen, given the opportunity. When in doubt, stick with the black letter of the books.

  209. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    @Paul J

    While I would usually agree with you, I don't see any ramifications in making Stannis older. It doesn't change anything about the books imo.

    I would be against a change of say…..Ned surviving or Jon being a true Stark son, but something like ages means little to nothing.

    But hey, the way you see things and the way I do may be different enough that it matters hugely to you.

  210. Fünke
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    emm.. I just want to point out that SoIaF, while the most fantastical and unrealistic sci-fi I have ever read and nowhere touching historical lateral lines, would be best described as a Political history, not a social one. The 2nd rate cannuck writer named Steven Erickson, and the fundamentally unreadable paperweights he has published under the label "Marzipan Adventures and Flights of Fancy", would be more accurately classified as a Fantasy Social History–which doubt the poor bloke realizes as its part of his cultural heritage.

  211. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    It's odd really, because usually I get seriously annoyed over changes from the original material.

    I think, in this case, it's because it's a book. As such, like I said up a bit, I've imagined my own images and my own characters and things from what is written, but because it's just a book with no pictures or other images, I can do that.

    When I get annoyed is with Comic book movies, where I have seen it. I guess the difference is the fact that with comics you 'see' it, with a book, you have to imagine it and my imagination changes things as it sees fit.

    I may have to go to London next month, I really want to talk to GRRM about this and see what he thinks.

  212. Mauberly
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    Here's some suggestions for Renly and Loras:
    For Renly Richard Fleeshman (20, 6'2") or if they're going to age him up a little Ben Freeman (29, 6'1").

    For Loras Harry Eden (20).

  213. lordnedshead
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    I know it'll never happen (although he did do a dragon voice-over and appear in a cameo as King Richard in the Kevin Costner Robin Hood movie, but Sean Connery has always been Ser Barristan the bold in my book.

    Hey..try this on for size… he might be a little old for Davos but what about Sam Elliot?http://media.canada.com/idl/otct/20070524/32868-11401.jpg
    I could see him swabbing around on deck very easily and he does that tired, weight of the world thing that Davos goes through really well.

    Real quickly back to McShane Davos. I don't mean to trap McShane in a typecast role, I'm certain he could play Davos' part well. I just think his talent would be wasted in that role. Also I picture Davos as much lighter on his feet than McShane. Damphair sounded like a good choice for Ian until I realised that Aeron is bone thin and not prone to any vices including overeating. McShane could act the part well but just doesn't fit the character's build.

    Lastly, we are ignoring the two most important questions of all. Who will play Hodor? Who will play Syrio?

    Patrick Stewart would be my dream choice for the water dancer from Braavos but I know its unlikely. However its a peach of a role and won't be too time intesive. Oh! I am BEGGING D&D to prod GRRM for the answer and come up with a more definitive explanation of what happens to Syrio on screen than is show in the books.

    The guy is my favorite character in literature. Pleeease let me know what happens to him…or better yet don't….and bring him back later!!!!

  214. Silverstar
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    If you make Stannis older, thereb changing the Westerosi laws of succession, it does change the plot to some extent, though, just because so much of the background is tied up with the laws and customs of succession.

    I mean, Stannis's big complaint about Renly's claim to the throne is that he, not Renly, is the older brother, and therefore he is the rightful king. If you make it so that he willingly played second fiddle to Robert, it becomes weird that he should make such a big issue about playing second fiddle to Renly.

  215. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Fleeshamn as Loras, while not what you suggested, is inspired Mauberly. Yes. A bit tall, but yes, perfect. Exactly what was in my head when I read the books.

    Freeman…….I couln't take a Hollyoaks actor seriously!

  216. Davey
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Patrick Stewart would be my dream choice for the water dancer from Braavos but I know its unlikely.

    I know it seems unlikely but then so did Kit Harrington.

    I can see it, Lordnesdead. In a little leotard or something, prancing around with his little dirk in the air. Oh, how lovely that would be.

  217. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    Mauberly, nice finds, although Ben Freeman looks a bit too much like our Robb, I think. Curly hair, facial structure.

  218. lordnedshead
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    One additional point. To anyone who hates Brienne, I strongly reccommend going back and reading over the chapters. They are some of the most beautiful in AFFC and they definately grow on me every time I reread the series.

  219. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    @Silverstar

    He did it once because Robert took the throne for himself, he wont do it again for some gay lord (no offence to anyone, literally meant, it just sounds offensive).

  220. Fappy
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Lordned,

    That's exactly what I've been telling people who hate those chapters, to read them again. I have no idea why but they ignore me.

    I hated them at first, and every time I hate something, I do it again until I like it, and then finally I love it. That's how I met my wife.

  221. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Davey (I don't usually reply but have to point out when you are flat wrong)

    The fourth estate is the press, not the peasants. As Legion said, nobody gives a fig for peasants.

  222. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    I'm going to say it again, because I dont want it to get lost, but Mauberly's suggestion on Richard Fleeshman, while not for Loras, when made into Loras is ABSOLUTELY PERFECT.

  223. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Paul J,

    I'm with you on this. I'm all for doing some, "Meanwhile in another part of Westeros" action, where we see things we didn't see in the main books. As an example that's been brought up before, having a scene with Benjen's party would be fine with me.

    All of this, of course, has the caveat that all these things leave the main storyline alone. Having GRRM involved as much as they do is a good sign as far as this goes.

    If D&D include a scene where a POV didn't go (like the oft-mentioned Renly/Loras "prayer night"), I won't be too worried that they're trying to include something that wasn't in the original.

  224. Davey
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    @gofalcons,

    You're a NAUGHTY googler! I tickle U!

    LAWLZ

  225. niceshot
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    Matt Lucas as Varys. His sketch comedy experience and slightly effeminate voice, I think, would work terrific for Varys costume changes and constant nervous giggle.

    Also on one of his shows: India De Beaufort for Melisandre. Absolutely beautiful!

    She could play Shae quite easily too.

  226. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    India for Melisandre would be interesting. As Shae, I like more.

    If Lucas is Varys I would seriously contemplate not watching, I hate him that much.

  227. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    India de Beaufort is stunning but seems a bit delicate for those roles. How old is Margaery Tyrell?

  228. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    @gofalcons

    16 I think

  229. Silverstar
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    "He did it once because Robert took the throne for himself, he wont do it again for some gay lord (no offence to anyone, literally meant, it just sounds offensive)."

    That's not very Stannis, though. Stannis is all about what's 'right', and if he was the older brother, then either the throne could go to Robert because Robert took it, and so it can equally go to Renly if Renly takes it, or he, as the older brouther, should have had it from the start.

  230. Mauberly
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    I considered Fleeshman as Loras but thought he'd be too tall. Otherwise, why not.

  231. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    if we are going to go down the 'Stannis is so rigid he would never break the rules or accept anything wrong' road then one has to wonder why he bothered to rebel at all?

    Aerys, mad as he was, was the true king. Making it that he was supporting his brother, older or younger, shows depth to the character and the value he places on loyalty.

    TBH, that whole characteristic is riddled with plot holes if you look at it too much (rebelling, killing kids, changing religions, stealing things from the Nights Watch and so on).

  232. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    If you cast Lucas as Varys, you're kind of trapping Varys as a Johnny one-note.

    As I've said many times before, I take the chameleon qualities of Varys seriously. I'd take a serious actor with the ability to change his core self like Eddie Marsan over a comedian known for playing different characters.

    That's not to say I'm against actors taking a serious role, like my suggestion of PeterSerafinowicz for Stannis. I'm just saying that for Varys, I see him as much more complex than the slimy cartoon villain some people seem to think he is.

  233. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Mauberly, we need to get Paul Gude on side and then get him on the email to whoever represents Fleeshman, I am utterly sold on that idea.

  234. Mauberly
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    Fleeshman's agent is Paul Lyon-Maris from Independent Talent Group, according to IMDb Pro.

  235. Silverstar
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    But Stannis is all about the 'right'. That is his beef with Renly, that is why he is so wound up about getting Dragonstone instead of Storm's End, it's why he seethes in silence with Robert, but then fights Renly. It's about the right.

    It just doesn't make sense to make him the older brother, particularly if the only reason for doing so is to shoehorn a particular actor into the role.

  236. sven20
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    How do you know Lucas can't do serious?

  237. Mormegil
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    Would be good if we got Matthew Macfadyen or Jason Isaacs (one year older than Addy) for Stannis, though Rufus Sewell would work as well.

    How about Catherine Tate for Lysa Arryn?

  238. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Wonderful.

    No idea if he is still acting, I know after that singing thing he was in he wanted to do that. Still, Loras is hardly demanding until later series and he is just exactly what I saw when I saw Loras, so I want to see it.

  239. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    But Stannis is all about the 'right'. That is his beef with Renly, that is why he is so wound up about getting Dragonstone instead of Storm's End, it's why he seethes in silence with Robert, but then fights Renly. It's about the right.

    It just doesn't make sense to make him the older brother, particularly if the only reason for doing so is to shoehorn a particular actor into the role.

    I ask again then, why does Stannis join the rebellion and do the other things I mentioned?

    Catherine Tate as Lysa………..I'd go for it. She suprised me in Doctor Who and I ended up really liking her as Donna.

    Still can't see Lucas doing serious or anything that I wouldnt immedietly see as 'comedy'

  240. niceshot
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    @gofalcons
    India's not that delicate – she dressed in chainmail for her last role after all. She's been my pick for Shae for a few months now.

    @legion_quest666
    I've always pictured Varys as slightly plump and bald as an egg. Like an uncle Fester type. Lucas fit my bill having alopecia and a slimy sort of way to him. Any other suggestions?

  241. gofalcons
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    @niceshot

    I saw the chainmail pictures too, but look at her arms in that picture. My cocker spaniel has more muscle.

    I think I meant delicate in facial features. Melisandre is a strong woman (not saying pretty women can't be tough, it's just the perception) and Shae is a camp follower. That's a hard life there.

  242. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    sven20,

    I don't know he can't do serious, but I do know from confirmation I got from several Brits during our last discussion that if he's Varys everyone will say, "Hey, that's Matt Lucas!"

    On another note:

    *SPOILERS*
    I'm still not convinced that Varys is actually a eunuch. I think "the eunuch" could just be another character the Spider is playing. Pure speculation on my part, and I could be way off.
    *SPOILERS*

  243. Silverstar
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    "I ask again then, why does Stannis join the rebellion and do the other things I mentioned? "

    Because he's being a dutiful younger brother and supporting his older brother and his 'House'.

  244. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    @Paul Gude, I agree re. Varys and that being another character.

    I have no other suggestions for Varys. He is Matt Lucas as far as looks and description goes. I just couldn't stand to see him. Plus, I really dont think he could do it. He has never, as far as I know, done serious, I'm assuming there is a reason for that.

    Granted, I could be wrong, he might be awesome.

  245. Manda
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    @Gude
    **SPOILERISH** I always wondered that about Varys too. I always wondered about that character he plays with the stubble on his jaw. Made me wonder if it was his own stubble.

  246. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    I let Fleeshman's publicist know about this thread. I don't write to managers if there's a publicist around, because as someone pointed out, a good agent will consider their client for these things.

    A publicist, however, is usually more than happy to find out people are talking about their clients.

    Again, just in my experience.

  247. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    @ Paul

    You sir, are a legend.

  248. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Manda, Legion, thanks for that validation. Often, I just feel like I'm crazy.

    For me, Matt Lucas would be the eunuch as the base, and then all the other characters would be layered over him.

    For my ideal Varys, the "base" would be someone we never see, which is why all of the other characters seem like such radical departures.

    This is why I recommend excellent character actors for Varys, rather than comedians.

  249. Mauberly
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Yay, thanks Paul! :)

  250. Mauberly
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    I've been looking for Samwell, and it's hard to find someone with right age.

  251. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    I've had the same issue. Finding fat teens isnt easy

  252. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    Oh, and to clarify, my last sentence should read:

    "That's why I recommend we look for excellent character actors for Varys, rather than comedians."

    As opposed to:

    "That's why I only recommend excellent character actors for Varys, rather than comedians."

    Realized it could be read both ways. I'm just saying that we look for someone who *could* look the part, but also play others.

  253. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    I still say my suggestion from an earlier thread, Jamie Waylett could work.

    He hasn't lost his weight, it seems. This was him in July.

    His community service for growing marijuana might affect whether or not he'll do more Harry Potter films, but out doubt HBO will care.

  254. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    Oh, and he's 20, which I think would still work, what with aging up the characters.

  255. Mauberly
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Jamie Waylett is Slytherin bully to me, can't see him as Samwell :D

  256. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    Being a dirty druggy excludes him for me.

  257. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Fair enough on both counts.

    Back to the drawing board, then.

  258. lordnedshead
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    Jamie Waylett seems too oafish no offense. Plus can he act? He's basically wallpaper in HP except for the polyjuice potion scene which isn't a very strong example of acting at all imo.

    Sam needs a soft, sweet look and also requires an actor whith chops enough to pull off on of the most complex characters in the series. I think he may be one of the toughest roles to fill.

  259. Paul J
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Stannis talks about his decision to join Robert briefly to Davos.

    “It is every man’s duty to remain loyal to his rightful king, even if the lord he serves proves false,” Stannis declared in a tone that brooked no argument.

    A desperate folly took hold of Davos, a recklessness akin to madness. “As you remained loyal to King Aerys when your brother raised his banners?” he blurted.

    [....]

    "Aerys? If you only knew . . . that was a hard choosing. My blood or my liege. My brother or my king."

  260. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    See, Paul, it makes little difference on age when you look at these sorta scenes

  261. niceshot
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    If Brett Kelly were a little older and British, I think he could work for Samwell. Someone suggested Harry Melling but i'm not sure he's big enough. Maybe with some pillows around his waist?

    As for Varys, I feel being over-the-top is half of what the "public" Varys is all about. He's often described as giggling nervously when threatened and looking like he's on the verge of tears over mildly bad or sad news. It's rare we see the True Varys in the book.

  262. Paul J
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Well I agree that the whole thing is a little thin and Stannis doesn't give a full explanation of how he made his decision. But my opinion is he would have supported Aerys if Robert was younger.

  263. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    Niceshot, I think Brett Kelly would be perfect if he were British. Can anyone who watches a lot of UK TV think of a minor character in a drama or a sitcom who was a chubby little boy ten years ago? They may have dropped the weight, but it's worth a shot.

    As far as Varys goes, I agree with you about the public Varys being over-the-top. I'm not worried about an actor being able to pull that off. It's the true Varys that's being held in reserve that I want to make sure gets cast.

  264. Paul J
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Can I post something completely off topic?

    How did Eddard so completely underestimate Selmy? He was looking for allies, and thought that Selmy might be good since he is honorable, but then dismissed him as being old and useless. We later find out he is not that way at all. Was this one of Ned's biggest mistakes?

  265. lordnedshead
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    There were so many. I think Ned probably chose to keep the Kingsguard out of it simply because of their vows to protect the king. Until comfirmed bastards and disavowed by Robert, Joff and ilk would still be under Selmy's charge. This would make him a dubious choice of ally at best.

  266. lordnedshead
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    And technically Joff is king when Ned attempts his (SPOLIER) coup so Barristan would ultimately be sworn to the King regardless.

  267. meggyo
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    Waylett looks somewhat thuggish (sorry!) – a quality that doesn't come to mind when I think of Samwell. Melling would require a lot of padding these days it looks like.

    Regarding Varys – someone in a post awhile back recommended David Bamber, and I think he's a decent suggestion.

  268. legion_quest666
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Davi Bamber as Varya gets my votes

  269. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    Oooh, I forgot about David Bamber. I think he'd work fine.

  270. ninepenny
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    I've created the following for easy comparison of the actors cast and the depictions of the cast from artwork: http://a.imagehost.org/dl/b6a27ead1fbc9c4835b3e7ff05f53870/0169/ninepenny.png

    Keeping in mind that hair can be changed I think they managed to get a pretty good likeness for pretty much all of the characters and some of them seem uncannily similar. Nice work!

  271. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    You know, if Thomas Turgoose would gain a few pounds, I could see him work as Samwell.

  272. Adam Whitehead
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    I like the idea of David Bamber as Varys. Actually, the more I think about it the more I like it. He was superlative as Cicero in ROME and I hear he was pretty good as Hitler in VALKYRIE as well. A couple of decades younger and he'd also have made a brilliant Littlefinger.

    The scene where Titus Pullo goes to kill Cicero and he asks for a last minute to look around his garden and then up at the sky may be the best moment in all 22 episodes of ROME. Really powerful stuff.

  273. lordnedshead
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Totally balls-to-the-wall in favor of Bamber as Varys! It would be the best casting to date (minus Dinklage)should it ever happen.

  274. knowtom
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    "…may be the best moment in all 22 episodes of ROME. Really powerful stuff."

    I'm sorry but that honor goes to the gladiator match in season one.

  275. Paul J
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    @ninepenny

    Error: exceeded maximum number of unique IP addresses for this download ticket.

  276. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    Okay, I think I found my vote for Sam.

    Bruce Cook

    That's the only footage of him I can find, but he also played Little Wackford Squeers opposite Jim Broadbent.

    Here's a shot of him from 2002/2003.

    The only problem? I have no idea what he looks like now.

  277. dizzy
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    "I'm a son of Hades! I fuck Concord in her arse."
    Is my personal favorite Rome moment.

  278. dizzy
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

    Oh and Cicero would make a good Varys and Purefoy a great Red Viper. I hope we get that far.

  279. couchpotatohead
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    If they cast these guys they'd probably have just enough cash left over for a couple cups of coffee and a disposable camera. But it might be worth it.

    Mcshane = Halfhand (guy looks like an old vet that could kick your ass)
    Jacobi = Aemon
    Harry Melling = Renly (dude looks way different now, and bears some resemblance. Plus it'd be a great talking point for the series- "Hey remember that fat kid from HP? Well you should seem him now on that new show Game of Thrones! Yeah, it's a great show …")
    Fleeshman = Loras (I liked JCB for this, but hey if Gude is already on the case it seems I gotta accept it)
    Dance = Tywin (Powerful look)
    Christopher Eccleston = Bronn
    Nighy = Frey (please, just get min in there somewhere; he plays a really delicious bastard)
    Jason Isaacs = Bolton (might be an even better bastard)
    Peter Serafinowicz = Bolton’s bastard (there’s no shortage in these books. I admit there are only 10 years between them, so you’d have to do some age change stuff, but he looks really creepy)
    Timothy Dalton = Selmy (super fit; and whitebeard has to be able to move like a fighter)
    Rufus Sewell = The Tickler. Ot that mercenary with the funky blue beard that’s always eyeing up Dany. Love that guy. Love this guy. Give him whatever he wants.

  280. ninepenny
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:23 pm | Permalink
  281. Paul Gude
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    Ninepenny,

    I was getting the same error as Paul J, but this one seems to be working.

    You're right. That's pretty eerie.

  282. hellcat505
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    Robert and Ned agreed that Robert should be king because he had a better claim (Baratheons were bastard cousins to the Targaryens therefore next in succession) rather than Ned taking the throne for vengeance (father & brother killed by the king). Robert may have STARTED the rebellion for vengeance but his reason for taking the THRONE was because of his blood.

    If you make Stannis older than Robert, it changes things greatly because that means Stannis should've been made king after the rebellion because of succession.

  283. ninepenny
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    Mirrored at http://i38.tinypic.com/23ur2xi.jpg and http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/409119d084.jpg just to be safe.

    @Paul Gude
    Thanks for the feedback. I did pic the photos and artwork which matched best so that emphasizes it, but it still seems like they did an excellent job of staying true to the books. I just hope they can act the part as well as they can look it.

  284. lordnedshead
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    George just posted on his site. He's across the pond and landed in Scotland…/goosebumps

  285. lordnedshead
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:18 pm | Permalink

    Also wanted to revote for GRRM as a mummer in the whorehouse. Have him dancing around with an accordian (or whatever medieval instrument serves as an accordian's grand daddy) while other mummers join in a verse or two of "The Bear and the Maiden Fair".

  286. lex
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    Not sure if anyone's discussed this before… but with filming starting this weekend, can we expect to see any leaked photographs from the set? I would LOVE to see Sean Bean (or anyone else, for that matter) in full costume!!!

  287. coltaine777
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 12:11 am | Permalink

    Ian Mcshane as Stannis ?….no way …he's only 100 yrs old for gods sake….Jamie Bamber as Varys…..are people serious ?….I like him but defintely not as Lord Varys(that weasel, that scumbag,that slimeball)… Matt Lucas is Varys….nufff said…Jamie Bamber fir Littlefinger ….Christipher Ecclestone as ….anyone LOL

  288. lordnedshead
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 12:16 am | Permalink

    David Bamber not Jaime.

  289. Smoldering Hound
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 12:21 am | Permalink

    My mental picture of Varys has always been Wayne Knight (Newman from Seinfeld, or the computer programmer from Jurassic Park). Too bad he's American….

  290. Paul Gude
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 12:24 am | Permalink

    Eddie Marsan is still my current top pick for Varys, but I'd take David Bamber over Matt Lucas any day of the week.

    Matt Lucas is too "on the nose" as the eunuch for me, and I'd ask anyone who unflinchingly thinks that he's the perfect choice: Do you think there's more under the surface to Varys, or do you take his simpering at face value?

  291. Paul J
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 12:39 am | Permalink

    @ninepenny

    yes, thanks and looks great

  292. About Yea High
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 12:49 am | Permalink

    I'd kill just to see an -extra- in costume. I don't even know what the costumes are going to look like!

    Ooch! Scutlund! Et's kellen' meh!

  293. Gene4244
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 12:52 am | Permalink

    Richard Attenborough as Aemon
    Timothy Dalton as Selmy

  294. coltaine777
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 12:53 am | Permalink

    @lordnedshead….David Bamber…LOL. thankyou….been drinking…sorry everyone …God I love Labatt Blue…burrrp

  295. Marko
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 2:45 am | Permalink

    Great collection, ninepenny, they look marvelous side-by-side.

  296. meggyo
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    @dizzy

    I forgot about Purefoy. I believe his latest show has been cancelled so he might be available. Not sure I see him as the Red Viper though. Still…would love to have him in the show.

  297. lordnedshead
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    How about James Callis as Littlefinger? I know some of the writing for Baltar was just plain goofy in certain parts of BSG and his stint as Merlin in that horrible Sci-Fi movie was not the best career choice, but I think he could slay as Littlefinger.
    http://www.daemonstv.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/nup_111711_1228.jpg
    Sigh, I hate to ask but can anyone gimme a pointer on how to do a sexy blue link for these pics?

  298. Paul Gude
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    lordnedshead,

    If they keep all the other male actors 6' or higher, James Callis may be okay at 5'8".

    He would bring in fans.

  299. Paul Gude
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    That said, of course, I have my own favorites. They're scattered throughout these threads. Here's the two latest:

    Martin Freeman (Against type, Ned and the audience might trust him at first.)

    Noah Taylor

  300. gofalcons
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    Noah Taylor is an interesting choice for Littlefinger, but I've only seen him as the geek in the Lara Croft movies.

    I would like Mark Sheppard if he weren't 5'10".

  301. gofalcons
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    oops, bad link. Second try:

    Mark Sheppard

  302. Paul Gude
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

    Gofalcons, true story, I could totally see Mark Sheppard, too. I thought about him several times as well, discounting him because of his height. He and Sean Bean are the same size!

    Still, when he and Summer Glau had a scene together in Firefly, he seemed shorter, didn't he?

  303. gofalcons
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    PG, I know, he just doesn't look that tall. I've seen him on three different shows lately and he always seems like the shortest guy on set. I wonder if his imdb bio pads his height. It's a common practice with short athletes, why not actors?

  304. Paul Gude
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Either way, I think it warrants a quick note. Thanks for the endorsement!

  305. ravinginsomnia
    Posted October 25, 2009 at 2:22 am | Permalink

    How about David Jason as the Lord Commander Jeor Mormont

  306. ravinginsomnia
    Posted October 25, 2009 at 2:29 am | Permalink

    Lets fire another one out Ian Richardson as Tywin


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