Day 4: Filming at Doune Castle

Today, according to reports, will be the last day of filming at Doune Castle for most of the principal cast. Officially, the last day they have the castle reserved for filming is the 30th, so I’m not sure if that means they have a few days for take down or they will be filming second unit type stuff until then. Either way, most of the main cast (Bean, Headey, Ehle) will be completed filming at Doune Castle today.

Sounds like they had a late night last night. According to the stand-in for Ehle and Headey, filming didn’t wrap until close to midnight. From the reports of the great hall being done up for the feast as well as the amount of extras that were present yesterday, I’m going to guess that they were filming the feast scenes last night.

Meanwhile, Jamie Campbell Bower has tweeted that he is on his way to Belfast. I am assuming this means they will be filming the prologue in the Paint Hall and not in the highlands of Scotland as some had speculated.

As usual, keep it here for updates throughout the day.

UPDATE: Commenter grimherald checks in with a set report:

The main courtyard is covered in mud and there seemed to be a cart there and some large iron braziers dotted about. They were filming in the great hall, so access there was restricted but we managed to see a room where all the food/props were stored. Some woman was running about asking where the wineskins were and there was a silver banner with a bird on it with the name Corvus Corax. Also saw the Lannister banner which had a crimson background with a roaring lion’s head. Bumped into a couple of extras on the way out who were in costume, just peasants by the looks of them. Sadly, didn’t get to see any of the main cast but the fact that I was standing in Winterfell made my day.

UPDATE: Received this photo of the courtyard set from an anonymous emailer. I believe this is the first photo of an actual Game of Thrones set, not just a photo of crew setting up. Oh and I can definitely see this being the scene of the Jon/Tyrion encounter.

UPDATE: A poster over at the Westeros forums claims to have seen one minute of footage during his trip to Doune Castle:

just as a quick note, i went to over to scotland and doune castle today, saw them editing the show…. looked FREAKING AWESOME!!!!

im not kidding, i honestly don’t believe they could’ve done a better job with the roughly 1min of footage i saw on their screens.


  • I'm curious if we'll get some inside info from Belfast. WiC, wasn't there someone working who said on an other website he could provide some info if anyone was interested?

  • This is great. Filming doesnt seem to take too long, so if the series is picked up, it's possible we could get to see the series as early as around this time next year.

  • Knurk: Not sure. On the last thread, kingorpauper seemed to know Weiss and had some inside info with regards to the medieval band. Also, grimherald was supposedly heading out to Doune today. So hopefully he will be able to give us some info.

  • I think that by now we should really know if the actors have read the book(s) or not. It doesn't change anything if they have or haven't, but it would definitely be nice to know. We know Jason Momoa has read AGoT, but what about the others? Can someone ask them, if they get the chance, please? I'm dying to hear Peter Dinklage's thoughts on Tyrion.

  • Knurk: Not yet. Of course, it looks like he will be working on the production when they move to Belfast, so hopefully he will get in touch once they start filming in the Paint Hall.

  • Juhan: The only other one I know of is Kit Harington. Supposedly he read the first book, at least.

  • For those that are desperate for any info regards the filming (and at the risk of boring others…sorry in advance) here are some notes on the photo of Doune courtyard used for this post.

    The courtyard was covered with dark brown sand/grit for filming. Protective covers were laid down in the gate entrance to stop visitor slipping etc.

    There was scaffolding up around the top of the walls (left, right and behind). Unsure if this was for cameras or lighting or both.

    One half of the support for the well was removed along with the iron grill over the top. A long boom/lever with a bucket on the end was put in place.

    The tower at the far right of the picture is the bit still open to the public. In that tower there was a small room you had to cross through where they were preparing the food for the feast. The big window in the middle of the tower gave the pubic views into the courtyard and what was going on. A similar window no the opposite side of the tower gave the perfect vantage point to watch people coming up the path and through the gateway of the castle.

    The stair directly behind the well entering the block in the centre of the photo is the one used by the cast and crew to enter the main hall for filming. Although I believe there was another way in via the small 'feast prep' room.

    The corner in the far left inc. the stairway was set up for a scene or two. Large braziers, a cart/wagon (not the queens!), barrels, logs etc. Some poor blokes were having to barrow the logs out of the castle to the back of the vans to char them then bring the back up the hill. Not safe to do it on the premises.

    The rest of the court yard (from centre to right of the picture) had small marquees up and equipment stored.

    The small grey door to the right of the well was open to the public. It's an empty cellar with info about the Monty Python film. While in their Crakehall (his friend) and I heard the feast music being played. We were right under the hall. King Robert walked up the stairs while we were in their too!

    There was scaffolding set up to block the four windows in the middle of the wall (main hall windows). You had to pass under it to get into the public area. Some extras (kitchen staff etc) were hanging around under the scaffolding.

    Crakehall's photo (and mine) of George's arrival was taken from the roof looking over the other side of the main hall to the front of the castle, approx where the tower is in the roof. Similar view to that from the other window gate view I mentioned earlier.


  • oops, actually looking at the other photos here, Crakehall's photo was taken from the top of the tower over looking the main gate. The good view point was the second window up above the gate.


  • Thanks Jackie! It's awesome to be able to picture in your head what the end product may look like. I wonder if the setup by the staircase on the left may be used for the Tyrion/Jon scene? I can just imagine Tyrion sitting up at the top of the staircase, staring down at Jon and Ghost then jumping down to get a better look.

  • @WiC that's why I'd assumed it was for the J/T scene.

    I haven't read the leaked script so don't know the actual planned scenes. I don't recall the Robert/Ned departure for hunting. Could be that was/would be done there too. Camera angles etc can really give an illusion of a far bigger set.

    Slightly concerned these details might be spoiling it for some don't want to break the illusion and all that.


  • Jackie: In the script there is just a brief conversation between Robert and Ned before they depart on a hunting excursion. And yes, they could definitely be looking to shoot that scene there as well.

    And I wouldn't worry about spoiling anyone. We are still over a year removed from seeing this thing on our TV screens, so most will probably forget what the layout of Doune Castle is by then. And the rest, like me and the other regulars around here, being spoiled is why they come to the site. ;)

  • Yikes, another day of not getting work done!

    @WIC –
    I got the feeling that Kingorpauper was legit / "somebody". It was the way he/she said/wrote "we" are excited… What did you make of that?

  • Reading JCB's twitter I noticed his Dutch film Oorlogswinter won an award. Didn't even know he played a part in that movie, now I definately have to check it out.

  • I love how we can get all this info now, because when they move to the Paint Hall……..those sets will likely be closed as the Hall isnt a public buidling….

  • Anachronite, we won't see the pilot until the whole series is shot and aired (assuming it's picked up). That won't be until at best December 2010, and more likely January 2011.

  • brhodes: I got the sense they may have been a part of the band.

    Anachronite: They still have to get a series order, cast a whole bunch more roles, and shoot the remainder of the first season before we can see the pilot.

  • Unlikely a pilot will be shown as a one off unless the series isn't picked up.

    Most pilots are now episode 1 of a show, therefore, for them to get a whole series orfer and such, then film and post produce…….that'll be this time next year at earliest…

  • Some updates from today's visit.

    The main courtyard is covered in mud and there seemed to be a cart there and some large iron braziers dotted about. They were filming in the great hall, so access there was restricted but we managed to see a room where all the food/props were stored. Some woman was running about asking where the wineskins were and there was a silver banner with a bird on it with the name Corvus Corax. Also saw the Lannister banner which had a crimson background with a roaring lion's head. Bumped into a couple of extras on the way out who were in costume, just peasants by the looks of them. Sadly, didn't get to see any of the main cast but the fact that I was standing in Winterfell made my day.

  • @ Grimherald –

    Wow, so Corvus Corax is confirmed. I listened to their stuff on youtube last night. That should be a perfect mood setter, but damn it gave me a headache after about an hour.

  • grimherald: Thanks for the report! So that bird banner that Jackie saw and some were wondering might be for the Arryn's is actually the band's? Interesting.

    Must have been awesome to see the Lannister banner in person!

  • Heh, just found out that Corvus Corax is apparently the scientific name for the common raven. Couldn't be a more perfect name for a band connected with ASOIAF, really, considering the amount ravens come up in the books!

  • grimherald – I'm glad you made it. I'm totally jealous, even if you didn't get to see any of the cast. Winterfell!

    I'm glad to know about the Corvus Corax banner. I was starting to wonder if they were honoring the late Jon Arryn or something when someone said bird with blue. I googled the latin names, as Silverstar has already explained, and then it all made sense.


  • Indeed that is what Corvus Corax means. It's the same with Bran, which also means raven…but I digress :)

    It's good to know we have a proper medieval band for the pilot. There are many others who would be perfect for the possible series. I mentioned Mediaeval Baebes yesterday, there is also Omnia ;)

    This is getting so exciting. I can't wait to see pictures of the cast in their costumes (especially Lena).

  • Well, I really wish I could get up to Scotland and see some of this, or over to Belfast with mybreaking and entering gear.

    I'm very excited, I want to see it all, as soon as possible.

  • I wonder if they'll get one of these medieval bands to put together music for things like "The Bear and the Maiden Fair"?

  • I love Corvus Corax! For those of you who wish to look them up their song "Avanti" is in my opinion one of their best (and probably most popular). I'm so stoked for this whole series!

  • I'm sort of curious why they are filming at this castle at all. Are they going to use it for all the Winterfel interior scenes? As much action as takes place there I figured it would be a major set at the Paint Hall.

  • Cool reports, both of you! Thanks for additional, and very detailed additional info about yesterday, Jackie.

    So Corvus Corax it is, then :) Very very good. They played in Slovenia at the Metal Camp festival a year or two ago, if I remember correctly, heard positive reports.

    As for Bower, I think it might be the case that he's flying to the production office in Belfast for rehearsals or costume fitting, as it is still early, and then move elsewhere for the shoot. Perhaps.

  • Disturbing Clown: Looks like they are just using it for scenes that take place in the courtyard and great hall. Much cheaper, I would assume, to film there than have to construct such large elaborate sets for those two locations.

  • Really cool about Corvus Corax. I'm a big music fan (never got into German Medieval bands…yet :) ) and I'm really excited about the music as I think it will play a huge role in setting the tone of the show. Glad they are going the more authentic approach.

    I wonder if CC is being used solely for the feast, or if they are involved with more of the music for the show… Also, there's a good chance some of those other bands may also be used at some point since there are quite a few feasts and singer's and songs throughout the books.

  • This is getting intensely exciting!! I'm still pinching myself to check if it's all really happening. I'm just amazed at how fast filming is moving along. And big up to all who've posted reports from the castle! I love reading all the details about the sets, extras, music, what the stand-ins ate for breakfast, etc…j/k ;)…but seriously, keep 'em coming, guys!

    @grimherald, were you able to take a photo of
    the Lannister banner, by any chance? :)

  • Really cool about Corvus Corax. I'm a big music fan (never got into German Medieval bands…yet :) ) and I'm really excited about the music as I think it will play a huge role in setting the tone of the show. Glad they are going the more authentic approach.

    there is fanboard:
    maybe someone from Germany can ask a few questions there. I think they would be more than happy to get some international exposure.

  • Winter, et al:

    With JCB's tweet is it a safe assumption that they'll be going straight to filming/rehearsing tomorrow?

    "belfast bound. no time to catch my breath. x

    I don't know how fast productions move from location to location.

  • nice, corvus corax

    I allready had my hopes up when I heard a popular medieval band was performing but this is great!

    If some of you never seen them, the live shows are really overwhelming. Especially if they bring their whole entourage along

  • Speaking about the banner, it surprised me a little bit that the Lannister banner only features the lion head. A minor deviation from the books, where the sigil is described as 'lion rampant', if I'm not mistaken. Here is a list of coats of arms featuring lions. Hope they didn't go for the lion face design, but rather for one of the last two (the description of a lion roaring suggest that is the case, fortunately). I like the one at the very bottom of the page best.

    In the Westeros summary for today, they refer to the report on Headey in costume with some description also of the hairdo. I think someone reported the sighting on the forums over there.
    @WiC: Should that bit of info be included in this post?

  • Update post with the first actual set photo! It's a picture of the Winterfell courtyard set, as desribed by Jackie.

  • Paul Gude: I imagine they could start shooting right away, if need be. On Julia Frey's blog she mentioned that they flew from Belfast to Scotland and back in the same day for location scouting. So I would guess it is a short flight.

    And they most likely wouldn't be transporting any equipment, just directors, producers, etc. I would guess the equipment and cameras needed for their NI shoots are already ready and waiting for them.

    Marko: Good idea, I'll track down the original report and add it to the post. Thanks!

  • Marko: Looks like the report about Headey's costume was already in the last post. Too many reports, I can't keep up with them all!

  • WiC – I talked to a transport guy. The equipment came from Belfast (as did he) but there is (obviously) equipment left behind in Belfast. The stuff at Doune will return though but it will take them a few days to break it down. Can't remember what day he said they'd arrive to start setting up, certainly a few days in advance of shooting.

    I have a similar photo of the court yard but mine has a bit of glare on the window.

  • @Jackie: Do send all the photos you have, please :)
    @Winter: Sorry about the unnecessary costume alert, too many things going on, as you've said.

  • Jackie: Thanks for the clarification. I guess since it is such a short trip bringing the crew and some equipment from Belfast is feasible. Either way I would assume that the Paint Hall has more than enough equipment to handle shooting the prologue scene (if in fact they plan to shoot it indoors) without having to use the stuff at Doune.

  • I don't know what I'm going to do all day once they are done filming in public places. I've been reading these comments all day today and yesterday. I might go through update withdrawl.

  • Julia Frey mentioned Stromberg once before, didn't she? Does this really mean they're working on the same project? Wouldn't be bad :) The connection – he worked on John Adams (and tons of other good-quality projects).

  • I assume if tomorrow they're moving to the Paint Hall full time, our daily updates are likely over.

    We need a spy who works there!

  • Marko: Yeah, she listed him as one of the ones who went to dinner at that fancy Moroccan restaurant when they were over there location scouting. I would assume that means he is working on this project.

  • Ah, it was the Moroccan dinner occasion … that makes it highly likely then, yes. And now she confirms the surname as well, by mentioning Avatar.

  • Are we sure what scenes have been filmed at Doune Catle? (or at least a part of them).

    a) The feast – because of the german band and whole lotta people present on the set.
    b) Jon & Tyrion conversation outside (during the feast) – because of the set photo

    I am, lets say, almost sure for these two.

    And I am pretty sure that all "naked" scenes will be filmed at Paint Hall

    – Ros & Tyrion
    – Ned & Cat
    – Jaime & Cersei

    And we still do not know was it puppy-wolf or puppy-dog…not the big thing, but anyway I am curious.

    Not to mention, that we desperatly need a moroccan spy…

  • I'm going to guess the court yard scenes, or at least some of them (they may use multiple court yards at multiple castles to create the sense of size of the place.

  • I love there is a list of "naked scenes" just for the pilot. At least 4 including dany/drogo in morocco.

    I'm with you Rabbit on those two scenes. I can't think of what else…

    It's going to be sad when all the news starts dying down again. :(

  • Have you noticed that Joseph Mawle has not been mentioned by any of the spies.

    At least, we know the colour of his costume, without seeing it.

    And he is at the feast.

    I completely forgot about Dany and Drogo…but they could do it over at Morrocco, it is not so cold there…lol

  • Re: lack of news once they get to the Paint Hall

    Don't forget we have Rimshot plus some others who are extras and/or crew on the production at the Paint Hall that may be willing to share a few details here and there.

    Don't think it will be complete radio silence, though the amount of info will probably drop.

  • Hi everybody! My first comment :)

    I'm from Germany and could ask some questions in this Corvus Corax forum.
    What would you like to know? But it seems that the forum isn't used regularly.

  • "legion_quest666
    Unlikely a pilot will be shown as a one off unless the series isn't picked up."

    If the series isn't picked up we'll never see the pilot.

  • Does this mean they'll have to head back to Doune castle for subsequent Winterfell shooting if this goes to series? I'm not sure how this works, but am worried about consistency of appearance.

  • I'm not sure how this works, but am worried about consistency of appearance.
    It seems they're only using the it for the Great Hall, or just ouside the great hall (courtyard). There aren't any more scenes in GoT that I can recall that take place in Winterfell's great hall (I know Bran rides Dancer at a feast just after Robb is crowned and that's where Theon convenes the hostages, but that would all be stuff for later seasons, god willing). Winterfell is supposed to be much bigger than Doune, I think, so in theory there could be plenty of other areas, so look as they weren't markedly different stone or something. Also, they can replicate the look of the set if they have the money down the road. I think they would only do that if they were certain it would be used a lot though.

  • @Jillian
    If you look at the end of the Day 3 blog (previous post), Jackie mentions the color of Sean Bean's hair.

  • Well I'm pretty impressed with the amount of info we've been able to get about the filming at Doune. Especially since we only found out recently that they'd be shooting there.

    Here's hoping that since we've known about Belfast and the Paint Hall for a while now that we'll have some well-entrenched spies on our side there!

    Please don't let us down Rimshot!!

  • Mapie,

    I'd be interested to know if they're just being used for that scene or if they'll be contributing more music further down the road.

    If they know who's in charge of the music, or any other people involved, that would be cool, too.

  • Wow, that Stromberg guy has a pretty impressive résumé. Another great name added tot the GoT crew. Can anyone explain to me what a production designer does, or has he got the same job as miss Frey? Her blog is btw absolutely fantastic.

    Good to see the twitter correspondence between the fans and her are currently on a high!

  • The scenes with Jon and Tyrion in the North are easily my favorite parts of A Game of Thrones. The bit where they're chatting about dragons, for instance. It's achingly good. And nostalgic, somehow. "Tyrion had a morbid fascination with dragons." Nuff said. I mean, he makes the Wall and the dark, snowy woods really come alive in a way that neither Jon or Samwell just can't match. Yes, Tyrion.

    The very first Jon chapter where they meet for the first time and argue… It's really bizarre to read now, since you know the characters so well and yet they are total strangers to each other. Naturally, I'm very much looking forward to this scene.

    …but one thing keeps bugging me, however. In that chapter Tyrion does a cool back-flip or something. How are they gonna solve this? I mean, it always seems odd to me when I reread that bit, since Tyrion is not exactly a gymnast. Do you you guys think we can expect more Tyrion related acrobatics in the future books? Or did good ol' George just forget about it and is now grinding his teeth about it? Honestly, has anyone else thought about this?

  • Yes, Jackie gave that info about Sean Bean's hair colour in response to my earlier question.

    But I'm still having trouble picturing it. I would have thought it would be nearly black, with some grey/white in it. But I'm wondering if it's a solid "dark grey", and trying to picture it in my head.

    I've been curious a long time about this, and whether they'd leave Sean Bean's hair as its own natural colour (in contrast to the books), or try to go with a more authentic Stark colouring.

  • Production Designer is literally the chief designer of the look of the production. He coordinates all of the artists, and is probably a pretty excellent artist himself, so that it all has a consistent look and feel. This means sets, props, costumes, makeup, effects, etc. Anything that has to be designed and built, painted, rendered, etc. It's a big, big job and they work very closely with the Director and especially the Director of Photography. Art Director handles a lot of this stuff too, but is usually a step down in the order of things. However sometimes there is only an Art Director, and no Production Designer.

    Production Manager is his boss and organizes that along with all other parts of production…it's very much about the logistics of the shoot, so they oversee Production Designer, transportation, you name it.

  • Juhan,

    I've thought about that, too.

    Here's the section:

    Tyrion Lannister was sitting on the ledge above the door to the Great Hall, looking for all the world like a gargoyle. The dwarf grinned down at him.

    "Is that animal a wolf?"

    "A direwolf," Jon said. "His name is Ghost."

    He stared up at the little man, his disappointment suddenly forgotten.

    "What are you doing up there? Why arent you at the feast?"

    "Too hot, too noisy, and I'd drunk too much wine," the dwarf told him. "I learned long ago that it is considered rude to vomit on your brother. Might I have a closer look at your wolf?"

    Jon hesitated, then nodded slowly. "Can you climb down, or shall I bring a ladder?"

    "Oh, bleed that," the little man said. He pushed himself off the ledge into empty air. Jon gasped, then watched with awe as Tyrion Lannister spun around in a tight ball, landed lightly on his hands, then vaulted backward onto his legs. Ghost backed away from him uncertainly.

    The dwarf dusted himself off and laughed. "I believe I've frightened your wolf. My apologies."

    Later on, GRRM writes about cramping Tyrion gets in his legs. Taking everything he writes as gospel, I've resolved it like this:

    1) This is a stunt Tyrion tries drunk, but would never do when he's sober.

    2) His arms are much stronger than his legs, giving him the ability to do this odd, spectacular-looking feet, yet still leaving room for him have an awkward time moving on his cramp-ridden legs.

    Now, there's one line that puzzles me:

    "The dwarf dusted himself off and laughed."

    I don't see where in his amazing feat something would have happened where he needed to dust himself off. Maybe dusting off his hands?

    If we look at an early draft of the script, we see how they may be handling it:


    I learned long ago that it’s
    considered rude to vomit on one’s
    brother. Might I have a closer look
    at your wolf?

    Jon hesitates, nods– and gasps as Tyrion pushes himself
    the ledge, falls twelve feet to the ground and lands roughly.
    Ghost flinches and backs away behind Jon’s legs.
    Tyrion stands and dusts himself off.

    It goes from being an acrobatic feat to being a crazy stunt. Just as well in my opinion.

  • @Juhan,
    I too enjoyed the interaction between Tyrion and Jon at Winterfell and the journey north. I always sensed something hidden with Tyrion and his talking of dragons and he seemed overly interested in Jon, perhaps he has suspensions concerning Jon's lineage. Tyrion being the person he is, would have heard rumors about R and L and the courtly intrigue. I have the feeling Tyrion went north so he could have more time around Jon and to sense his personality, character traits and see if his suspensions bear fruit that could be used at a later date.
    Tyrion is a researcher and reader and my thinking he has evidence that will appear at a later date, maybe when he meets Daenerys.

  • no offence to all of you Corvus Corax fans out there but i went and watched a bunch of their stuff on youtube and i hope they are just using them for the "live" feast music, they are pretty bad. talk about a horrid fusion of goth-rock and renaissance festival escapees. i hope they go in a different direct for the sound track and get a real band that can fuse medieval, middle eastern, gothic et al influences into one new, fresh modern sound …

    you know like dead can dance.

    if i had to listen to that other schlock at the beginning of each show i would pull what little is left of my hair out ….

    **and yes each word of dead can dance above links do a different song … just try and skip the interview stuff, they clips are from a documentary/live show video that was released to support the album Towards The Within**

  • @Juhan

    They've taken the Tyrion-As-Acrobat part out of the script (as far as I saw, anyway) and are just having him do a drunken flop.

    Kind of a –Paff! "I'm okay…" moment.

    I've been doing some furious-fast checking on Corvus Corax … this band has like 13 albums with an insane variety of music. They do traditional renaissance, chant, Latin choir, Welsh, … they even have an album that's all pipe organ. Some of it sounds pretty tragic.

    I could totally see them being a musical contributor to the Game of Thrones soundtrack – and as the musical personification of the North in particular.

    I just blew about 20 bucks on iTunes. Yoich…

  • @Jacopo Belbo. I'm seriously digging Covus Corax. Jacopo Belbo is wronggggg. Who is that guy, anyway?

  • Wow, lack of news today. Maybe D&D plugged some "leaks" like they did earlier.

    We need more photos of extras eating bagels to obsess over!

  • @Stephen
    Does this mean they'll have to head back to Doune castle for subsequent Winterfell shooting if this goes to series? I'm not sure how this works, but am worried about consistency of appearance.

    As said there is only really the Great Hall that would be needed again and that for only a couple of scenes in season 2 or 3 (another feast).

    I would hope that any other outdoor/courtyard scenes would be done in other places which would show how big Winterfell is.

    As to different styles of Castle, Winterfell is old (very very old) but it would have been added onto over the years so many of the buildings would not match in style anyway.

  • @ Juhan,
    I am not to dumbfounded by Tyrion's stunt, for when I was a lad of 9 and 10 I used to sit on the 2nd story eave of a friends house and push off and fall to the ground. My friends would set up others to dare me and then take bets and we would split the winnings. I did the stunt one time to many and on the 14th attempt I broke both my ankles. The secret is to stay limber (which you are when drunk) and when you hit to fall over to lessen the impact (dusted off the hands).

  • @silverstar to be honest, I'm more interested in Rains of Castamere ;) They should put an effort into recreating music and songs from the books, it is very important as a scenery and backstory in the books.

    @Marko I think that we are reading too much into lion head on banner. Even in books Robb used direwolf head as his personal banner. Having variations of the same design was pretty commonplace in medieval ages.

    I had no idea we will have to wait so long to see pilot. For some reason I thought they show pilot first and then show it on TV and wait for response from audience to see will they pick up the series… They will at least do some closed screening to see how will audience react? And maybe we'll get spy report from somebody who saw it – one can hope…

  • RE: Tyrion's acrobatics

    I've always considered that scene anachronistic. It just doesn't seem to fit. Perhaps it was a precursor to his (at least) passable ability to acquit himself in battle.

  • I quoted the line in the leaked script where Tyrion jumps down from above the door last night in the prior thread. I'll quote it here again:

    "Tyrion pushes himself off the ledge, falls twelve feet to the ground and lands roughly."

  • maybe i just caught some of their "bad" stuff … but they are no Dead Can Dance … (of course in their defence, there is only one Dead Can Dance) …. there is a reason, after all, why Lisa Gerrard and Brendan Perry as Dead Can Dance have received universal critical acclaim have released nearly a dozen albums on the 4AD label (home to Bauhaus, Stereolab, Cocteau Twins, Pixies, Lush, Thievery Corporation, and The The … just to name a few) and those other guys are "big in Germany" (where, if i might just remind you … so is David Hasselhoff) …

    but to each their own. i just did not care for their pedantic take on "medieval music" and all of their quasi-Gwar like histrionics … but that could just be me …

  • @silverstar to be honest, I'm more interested in Rains of Castamere ;) They should put an effort into recreating music and songs from the books, it is very important as a scenery and backstory in the books.

    The leaked script included a snippet from the "Bear and the Maiden Fair" when Tyrion is at the whore house in King's Landing. I'm sure we'll hear that and a rendition of the Rains of Castamere at various appropriate times (Red Wedding, Joffrey's Wedding, especially).

  • Maybe someone with musical ability could construct some of the GoT songs and give them to GRRM?

    They may end up getting used.

  • @Jacopo. Most of the stuffs you see on youtube is the symphonic thing or the feast thing from corvus corax. Their earliest work is much more medieval but not available on youtube. Like all group all their songs do not fit or aren't great but I swear that they are much more medieval than most groups that claim to be. As of Dead Can Dance/lisa gerrard I'm a fan too. Heck I love lisa's voice but it's not medieval. Imho if they wanted to get the medieval + the more heavy/gritty side of asoiaf those were the bands to go (corvus, cultus, wolgemut) if they wanted more medieval (really ) songs then they should have gone with La Nef or Ensemble Perceval, Musicien de Provence etc.
    Just to say that I'm 100% sure Corvus fit in there. Now I don't know which song they'll perform but seeing the quality work so far I'll trust the guy to have chosen one that fit

  • @Brude
    I know, I read it – I'm looking forward to hearing them, I'm sure people have pictured it in many ways in their head.

  • The real question, of course, is…

    Is Tyrion going to repeat this stunt somewhere? (in Dance, maybe?) Since to just completely forget about it would seem perilously close to retconning. And we all know how much GRRM hates that. Whatever happened, happened. Tyrion can do flips. (at least when drunk) :P So…

  • Re: Corvas Corax

    Here's a question, will one of the band members return as King Beyond the Wall? I know his accent would never work (and he can't really act either) but I've always pictured Jon BonJovi as Mance.

  • Yea seriously, who is this Jacopo Belbo character? heh he….

    Anyways, I don't think Corvus Corax should or will be used for all music in the show. That said, they are far from terrible and Dead Can Dance would seem HORRIBLY out of place playing at a feast in Winterfell, in my opinion – which is what Corvus Corax is doing.

    Like said earlier, it would be really cool if they gave each kingdom/region is own identity in terms of music. Which very well could be true, considering the heavy use of bagpipes in CC's music, which makes me think of the Northern regions of the UK( I'm a silly American, so they may be an entirely wrong perception…).

    Dead Can Dance seems much more fitting to the Dany story line, so maybe that's a possibility.

  • Jon Bon Jovi isn't a horrible actor, all things considered. But no, he couldn't do the Mance. He doesn't do accents.

    I think someone suggested simply obscuring a few of the faces in the band and then having Mance revealed there in a flashback.

  • @SA_Avenger: actually, some of the DCD stuff from "Aion" and before has heavy "medieval" influence but my whole point is that ASOIaF is not just "medieval" it is a whole unique world only one part of which can be considered "medieval" European in nature. the great thing about DCD is that their sound and influences range from middle-eastern to medieval to shoe-gaze … it is an entirely unique and ethereal, otherworldly sound … like Westeros is an unique, ethereal and otherwordly place … now unfortunately i am not sure DCD are still together/active … but i definitely want to see this show have a "real" soundtrack/composer like Jon Brion (Magnolia) or Graeme Revell (Until The End Of The World/The Crow/Boxing Helena).

    i would just hate to see the show and its sound track pigeonholed into the 'uber-cheesy' category

  • @Chris: i am fine if they were just for the "feast" scene … but i have heard/seen people suggesting them or music of that ilk for the 'whole show' which i think would be a mistake … just like it would have been a mistake to use music like that as the 'soundtrack' for LoTR … yes LoTR has a 'medieval' feel to it but it is a unique fantasy creation and as such, (and to avoid the taint of cheesy Renaissance Festival/Medieval Reenactment) it was much better off having original scoring and soundtrack by a professional film composer (Howard Shore and so would Game of Thrones …

    i just think a blending of influences and modern sounds would make for the most interesting soundtrack … not "modern" in the A Knight's Tale sense of using crap rock songs in anachronistic settings … but more like what Dead Can Dance does blending traditional ethnic music (from a variety of places) into a modern sound …

  • @Yeah High: ha ha ha, that Song of Sybil was one the same song i linked to … and is sort of proof of my point that i just think that all of the different sounds of DCD are perfect for any number of scenes/settings/lands in ASOIaF … as for them being broken up .. they did tour in 2005 so you never know … plus i am pretty sure Lisa and David still make music just not as DCD … but anyway … the suggestion was more illustrative than literal …. what kind of "sound" i would like to see permeating the show instead of "medieval" band like those being named …

  • Maybe someone with musical ability could construct some of the GoT songs and give them to GRRM?

    Odds are someone already has composed the music for Bear and the Maiden Fair, hired specifically for the show (we might even hear it at the Winterfell feast, it is the biggest hit in the realm after all). If we get to Season 3 we'll hear the Rains of Castamere, if not before.

    Maybe they've even composed some other songs about Lord Eddard's heroics in Robert's Rebellion. It seems singers like to curry favor by writing songs about the exploits of the great lords…I'm sure some songs about Eddard have been written as well.

  • Who is Jacopo Belbo? I sure don't know him, and he knows nothing (like Jon Snow) about Corvus Corax, but if he likes Graeme Revell, he's fine by me.

    Revell is extremely underrated. The Crow score is noice.

    I mean, take parts of The Crow Descends, using it as a basis, add a few varying (and thematic) instruments as each differing land is flown over, and you have a candidate for something that could sound like the GoT opening.

  • @Jacopo –
    Totally agree. I really like the idea of the live regional bands and troupes playing at the feasts and such, hopefully each group reflecting the region a bit. Dead Can Dance seems like a really good choice for anything on "the other continent."

    The rest of the music should come from a profession film composer, and should obviously reflect what is shown on the screen and be able to incorporate the various locations and nationalities and also throw in a little flair considering this is a fantasy show after all.

    I'm not too worried, looking at the quality of people they have gathered and continue to gather, I don't think we have to worry about who they get in the various sound departments.

    PS. The modern music in A Knight's Tale made it borderline unwatchable for me. When they started doing "We Will Rock You" at the beginning…. /facepalm

  • Please recall my prediction

    Rather than going into what I'd like to hear (which I did in an earlier thread) I'm going to put down what I think will happen.

    I think the opening credits are going to have an original instrumental song, much like Deadwood and Carnivale, and not a song like True Blood or The Sopranos. Likewise, I think there will be music that punctuates the action, again like Deadwood. I think that they'll go for music that has a medieval or Celtic flavor for the Westeros scenes, and more of an Indian sound for the Dothraki. It's possible that there might be different themes for different houses, each with a different style or mood.

    I think that they'll work with musicians that specialize in medieval or Celtic music to compose the The Bear and the Maiden Fair, The Rains of Castamere, and the rest of the "in story" songs. Even though this is a fantasy world, they're going to have them rooted in tradition. They've already shown they're going that route with The Clanranald Trust's 'Combat International' fight stunts team.

    I think it may be possible that strains of The Rains of Castamere might make their way into the original score when the phrase "A Lannister always pays his debts," is uttered.

    Modern music will not appear in the show at all, but could possibly show up in promos.

    Again, these are all things that I think will happen, based on what HBO has done before.

    To ensure I sound like a broken record, I am confident that HBO will make sure Game of Thrones has the perfect soundtrack. They haven't disappointed me yet.

    So, that's one thing that actually happened.

    I should point out that I think the "original instrumental" theme that I mentioned will most likely, in my opinion, be done by a working composer, like Jacopo suggested. My question for Corvus Corax about whether they'll be further involved with the soundtrack was more for getting information to the contrary, rather than an assumption that it was true.

    Wording it as, "You guys aren't doing the theme, are you?" doesn't sound very polite.

  • @AYH: Graeme also did the score part of one of the best all around film soundtracks (score plus individual songs) of all time … Wim Wender's Until The End Of The World … now the film was about 45 minutes too long but what can you expect from the director of Paris, Texas

    I am hoping for a soundtrack that completely compliments, enhances and uniquely defines the show like … something like the Tangerine Dream soundtrack did for Legend

    sure it is a dream that Dead Can Dance would come out of retirement and work on an entirely original soundtrack for the show but a boy can dream can't he … both for the sake of the show and for the sake of new Dead Can Dance music …

  • if we are throwing out film composers as possibles for the show i might vote for John Ottman who was the composer for The Usual Suspects (where he was also film editor? that cannot be "usual") which for my money has one of the best "in film" soundtracks of all time as far as adding to the atmosphere of the film … he also did the soundtrack for Snow White: A Tale Of Terror (which, despite being made for TV was a pretty unique and creepy take on Snow White) and for Apt Pupil, Cable Guy and Pumpkin (all of which were great movies) but also for (Eight Legged Freaks, Fantastic Four and House of Wax) all of which were crap movies … is that normal? to both work on astoundingly good films and wretchedly horrible films both?

  • John Ottman is unusual in that he's both a top composer AND film editor (I actually like him better as an editor, but he's very good at both).

    In other ways it's not entirely surprising. Editing is very much about rhythm and many top editors are very musically inclined. John Hutshing (2 Oscars for JFK and Born on the 4th of July) is a good example. He has his editing rig set up so he can stand why he cuts. I saw an interview with him and he will sometimes set all of the pieces he needs to cut together running at once, and will do rough cuts 'on the fly,' but it's very much like he's playing a keyboard or something, because he cuts to a rhythm.

    He did a rough cut for a scene in JFK like that, showed it to Oliver Stone and that became the final cut in the film. They never even went back and did a fine cut for it. So the entire sequence, once set up, was cut in less than 2 minutes.

  • @Brude: i can see the similarities between the rhythm and feel needed for both film editing and film scoring … i just did not know that people who did both on the same project were all that common …

    what i am interested to know is how common is it for "behind" the camera folks to work on both really good and really crap projects? is there less stigma to work on some POS film for the non acting talent than there is for an actor/ress? but of course every actor/ress usual has a few "had to pay the bills" films on their resumes so ….

  • @Juhan,

    GRRM has not forgotten Tyrion's tumbling. It's just something that was not appropriate for Tyrion in the rest of the story. However, he will be revisiting the subject in ADwD, I think.

  • @Legion: i rate cable guy as one of the most twisted darkest satirical comedies of all time … and my favourite Jim Carrey work ever … tho if i am honest he showed more talent in things like Truman Show and the Majestic … i just didn't enjoy them as much as Cable Guy … seriously … the Star Trek homage duel scene at Medieval Times was just hilarious … maybe my sense of humour is just odd …

  • Balerion, He will revisit the tumbling in ADWD? I saw GRRM at a signing once and I vaguely recall someone asking him about Tyrion's early acrobatic abilities and he said originally planned for Tyrion to be spry (I dunno. Kind of like a circus performer?) but then he cut it, and that scene just wasn't edited out. But I don't recall exactly. I had the impression that it was a mistake, but if he's revisiting it, that is interesting.

  • I'm new to this blog, but in terms of the music I would love to see Jeff Beal doing the soundtrack for the series. He did some great stuff with Rome and Carnivale.

  • Shaad, Jeff Beal would be a good choice.

    I'd also take the team of Reinhold Heil/Johnny Klimek from Deadwood as well.

    Lordnedshead, if someone like Axel the Sot would tackle The Bear and the Maiden Fair I would be very happy. I'm happy someone has taken a stab at it, but it's missing the ribald nature that's so important for the song in my opinion.

    Again, kudos for him for actually doing something with it. I can't believe there aren't more attempts, especially by folks who work and Ren Fairs and the like.

  • Oh yeah PG. I think that guy was just messing around at home. I wouldn't want the show to use anything like that hehe. I just figured something was better than nothing for now ;P

  • Here is my choice for the music. I've always pictured it playing at the end of an episode in season two with Jon and Ygrette making love and fading to the credits, but with all this talk about the opening I could really see it as the credit song. Think about a raven flying around to KL The Wall Winterfell ect while this plays. It totally fits.
    I could definately see it somewhere into the soundtrack.
    P.S. Warren Haynes is a frickin beast on the axe.

  • lordnedshead,

    I'm with you all the way up until the vocals start. No offense to Gov't Mule, I just shy away from songs with lyrics for Game of Thrones, at least songs that aren't from the book. Dead Can Dance/Passion style wailing would be fine, but actual words just rub me the wrong way for this particular project. Obviously, the songs from the actual book would be the exception.

  • A question for the experts: we now have Stromberg as the VFX supervisor, and Julia is (one of?) his underling(s) as the VFX producer. Michele Clapton designs costumes. Above them all is Gemma Jackson as the production designer for the entire thing.
    We may or may not need an art director, as Gemma can act in that capacity. Correct? Still missing the director of photography though. Does that complete the list of the top of the art section hierarchy, or are there others crucially responsible for both the overall and the particular looks of the series? The set designer comes to mind …

  • @marko: wait. let me get this straight. are you saying Robert Stromberg is the VFX supervisor? Master and Commander, Chronicles of Riddick, Pan's Labyrinth, Memoirs of the Geisha, Golden Compass, There Will Be Blood, Robert Stromberg?

    Where was I when that was announced? (oh, yeah … jobless, nearly homeless and without the internet except at the public library)

    … I think that this is probably as (if not more) important than any of the casting …. this guy has done some amazing looking work

  • Oh. And I just realized that Gemma Jackson has worked on 3 David Mamet films (Spartan, State & Main, The Winslow Boy) … Man, this is going to be like the best HBO series EVAH!

  • Hehe, I share your enthusiasm about these crew news. Winter patched together some info from the VFX producer's Twitter (@Kulia) and blog – she then confirmed last night that Robert Stromeberg is indeed the supervisor. (Gemma Jackson has also done other great work, but even 'just' Manet is a big reference.)

  • @PG I understand what you mean about the vocals. I would be happy with an instrumental version of the song… BUT if you reall listen to the vocals they also fit the story, if you viewe them from the right perspective. The raven black night could be used to represent the coming of the Others, similar to the Winter is coming tagline without shoving the reference in your face. Try this. Picture the opening credits with the crow flying around. When the lyrics start, hear them in the voice of the three eyed crow speaking to Bran. I did it. It gave me goosebumps.

  • Lordnedshead, I understand what you're saying too. There's just a lot that can go wrong with vocals for me, and in this case it's what I call the "hur hur hur" factor of the lead singer's voice and the following phrases:

    "But what's the use"
    "make up your mind"
    "do I fear the spirits and hide from the angels"

    It'd be something I could get over, but I'd much rather not have to.

  • Heh music is so interpretational. When I hear those lyrics I think of Bran during his dream struggling whith the choice of flight or giving in to certain death.

  • It's like the "Bear and the Maiden Fair" clip above. Even if Gov't Mule released a statement that they're big GOT fans, and that's exactly what the lyrics are about, it wouldn't change the fact that I don't like 'em.

    Again, nothing against the song. I just don't like the vocals for the show, and definitely not for the opening theme.

    This is why I paint music discussions with broad strokes. I tend to dislike a lot of music people think is perfect because of some thing that isn't quite right, and often don't have a better example to give.

    I'm not worried, tough, mostly because I believe a good composer is going to come in and write music specifically for the show, which will be uniquely its own

  • Its probably good to discuss any music ideas in broad strokes. You just aren't going to please everyone with your decision.
    I will ask you this though Paul. Why so anti-lyrics when it comes to this show? There are plenty examples (even if we don't get an actual description of most) of songs with lyrics in the series. I really get what you are trying to say about making the opening fit with the tone of the books and midieval music or orchestral music with midieval overtones seems the right fit to me too. I just don't understand why you feel any lyrics whatsoever would detract from the opening.

  • lordnedshead, as you'll note above, songs with lyrics that are in the books being performed in the show, I'll be okay with using:

    I think that they'll work with musicians that specialize in medieval or Celtic music to compose the The Bear and the Maiden Fair, The Rains of Castamere, and the rest of the "in story" songs. Even though this is a fantasy world, they're going to have them rooted in tradition.

    I also think that those songs will later on appear in the score:

    I think it may be possible that strains of The Rains of Castamere might make their way into the original score when the phrase "A Lannister always pays his debts," is uttered.

    The reason I'm against the idea of a song with lyrics in the opening is two-fold:

    1) All of the "period" shows HBO does (Deadwood, Carnivale, ect.) have instrumental themes, whereas most of the "modern" shows have songs with lyrics. Each work in different ways. Songs with lyrics root me in the modern world, even if it's the modern world with vampires.

    2) It just takes one misstep with lyrics or vocals to make me dislike a song. I'm horrendously picky, and my tastes are odd. Instrumentals are much easier to get right.

    I wouldn't be opposed to voices in the opening, much like Passion or Dead Can Dance, but not some guy singing English words in an American accent.

    Firefly is the exception to the rule. Its theme completely worked. Enterprise tried the same thing and failed. I think it actually might have cost them their show. That's how much it didn't work.

    Does that mean that some guy singing a theme written specifically for Game of Thrones might work for me? Sure. Does it mean that a piece of original music with a dude singing might work work me? Possibly, once I hear it.

    All I can say for sure is that this one isn't it for me.

  • Of course, if it were picked up as the theme song, I'm certain that I'd have a Pavlovian reaction and soon it would be my favorite song ever.

    I may be picky, but if having that song as the theme song could ensure Game of Thrones got to finish its run, I'd totally sign up for it.

  • lol Paul. You're cracking me up with your explanation :)

    What do you think about the song as an end credit choice for one of the episodes?

    Whatever they pick I can't wait to hear it!

  • I know, right? By default it's going to become the favorite song by a ot of people.

    You've heard the Deadwood theme, yes? It's very similar to the opening part of the Gov't Mule song.

  • I'm sorry, but I was unable to register at this Corvus Corax forum. I tried it twice but I was not allowed to write a post.

    Fortunately, a memeber of the band wrote at the Westeros forum about their musical contribution.