I put up a new poll in the sidebar asking “Who are you most looking forward to seeing inhabit their character?”Now that we know the majority of the main cast for the series, it will be interesting to see what the popular consensus is. I also think this will be an interesting discussion which is why I am making a post. So vote in the poll and give us your reasoning in the comments. And if you are most looking forward to someone I didn’t include in the poll, you can mention them in the comments as well.
Winter Is Coming: I’ll get things started and leave my thoughts here. I voted for Dinklage as Tyrion. Why? Because Tyrion is such an awesome character and Dinklage is an awesome actor. His strengths are so perfectly suited for the character it is amazing. The fact that he is actually a dwarf is just icing on the cake. He is like a gift from the casting gods.
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246 Comments
Tyrion, Arya, Bran and Cersei. In that order.
and… FIRST?
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Cersei!
StuQuote Reply
I have to go for Arya. She is my favourite character and I'm curious if a child actor can come close to how badass her character is in the books. She definately has the looks and now I'm curious if she can act!
KnurkQuote Reply
And of course looking forward to the Cersei sex scenes.
KnurkQuote Reply
I chose Cersei because Lena looks exactly like I pictured Cersei in my head so seeing her on screen will be amazing. In terms of raw acting, I'd have to choose Catelyn or Jaime because they will be the hardest roles to pull of successfully in my opinion. Both characters have to maintain a balance between likeability and dislikeability.
ddaimyoQuote Reply
@Knurk I'm not familiar enough with HBO to know this, but how graphic can we expect the sex scenes to be? I've never seen an HBO show besides a few episodes of the Sopranos.
(PS. I don't mean to sound like a heavy breathing perv. I'm just curious.)
ddaimyoQuote Reply
Voted for Dinklage, pretty much the same reasons as Winter's. Bean comes second, interested to see how different from his other charactes Ned will be, and how much charisma he'll bring to the role.
MarkoQuote Reply
Has to be Dinklage as Tyrion. It seems so long ago since he was cast that you could almost forget.
But D&D knew that having a skilled, believable actor playing Tyrion was pivotal to the entire series so they locked him up early.
Tyrion was "the hook" for me in the books and I imagine it will be the same for a lot of viewers of the show. So it will be very interesting to see Dinklage embody him. I think he can definitely pull it off and I can't wait.
dholdsQuote Reply
I'm looking forward to seeing NCW as Jaime, because unlike the others who all pretty much fit my head version, where as he doesn't.
So that's who I'm looking forward too seeing the most, as he is the one I'm most 'nervous' over.
Does that make sense? I have a hangover.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
I can see where the Tyrion votes are coming from, but honestly I can envision Dinklage in the role so well that I'm not exactly "curious" about it. Ngl, Jaime is the one I'm looking forward the most at the moment – an actor I didn't know for my second most favorite character, I'm looking forward to see how NCW is going to pull it out.
poggyQuote Reply
Tyrion, but would have put either Arya or Jon if they were options. Arya, because she's the character I'm most worried if the actress can do her justice, and Jon because I'm betting on Kit Harrington to be a big thing.
amir mishaliQuote Reply
NCW as Jaime or Jennifer Ehle as Catelyn. The two most difficult roles to pull off, in my opinion, and I really want to see how they do. I think their performances will be the make-or-break of the show for me.
SilverstarQuote Reply
Arya, for reasons mentioned earlier, but also Jaimie. He's the only character who my like/dislike factor changed significantly over time. I want to see if the screen can catch that alternation in him.
And of course Jon. So enigmatic with regard to what he is and how he fits in.
CarmineQuote Reply
Tyrion is the glue that holds the story together. He's the bridge between the Lannisters and the Starks and his flawed humanity is what will drive this series. If the audience embraces Dinklage…if he can pull off the bravado as well as the tenderness of Tyrion…this series will be epic. If he fails…so will the series IMHO.
ScottQuote Reply
I would've voted for Tazmin as Dany. I'm just curious to see how well she pulls it off. I think that she's got the right…exotic beauty for it. The acting chops, I just don't know.
However, I cast my vote for Jamie. I think bringing a character to life that is such an unlikeable personality at first, then becomes more tolerable and conflicted, ought to be cool to see. I also want to see how they pull off the gold armor. Could be really good or really stupid, depending.
Solamente DaveQuote Reply
@ddaimyo They can be as graphic as they can get. I've seen one episode of Tell me you love me on HBO, and it seemed half a porn show. That was just plain terrible. I'm hoping that after the pilot everybody will be talking about the thing NCW did for love, and not the things he did to Heady.
KnurkQuote Reply
Tyrion. What a character. What an actor!
TorrellanQuote Reply
I voted for Tyrion out of those actors, but I think I'm actually more curious and excited to see the characters with fewer lines that appear later in the story:
1. Tywin Lannister
2. The Mountain
3. Oberyn Martell
4. Stannis Baratheon
5. Mance Rayder
shadallionQuote Reply
I'm very excited to see Tyrion – especially because I want to see how far they go with his makeup – giving him a prominent forhead, mismatched eyes, somewhat twisted legs (will they do something to show that or just have him walk with a limp?). I think the physical aspects of the character will really allow Dinklage to completely submerse himself in playing Tyrion and it should be amazing to behold.
Sean Bean as Ned and Harrington as Jon Snow are tied for second, mostly because I have a man-crush on Sean Bean and Jon Snow is awesome and has a great personal development arc in book one.
dunnstockQuote Reply
Tyrion is my favorite character.
But I am most looking forward to seeing Jaimie and Tywin.
And Ned. If only to see how Sean Bean totally becomes that character.
Hakeem OlajublogQuote Reply
aren't you guys looking forward to seeing how the children pull off the parts? i think you can approach it two ways
1. which character from the books are you looking forward to see on screen?
2. which actor are you looking forward to playing in their respective part?
i'm thinking the 2nd is more interesting of a question, as it ties in both character and actor and the symbiosis of the two.
you guys have talked at length about whether arya could pull off the role of a lead actor at her age. i would concur with that, and say this is a perfect reason to vote for her.
same goes for bran, though for me the age is not the only thing i'm curious about, but also the potential depressing/overly introspective tendencies bran has after his fall, and how HBO and whomever they cast will keep us wrapped up in his character.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
From GRRM's Not a Blog:
Glad to see everyone so excited about the casting.
We're not done yet by any means. Roles still to be filled for the pilot include Bran, Jory, Hullen, Jeyne Poole, Septa Mordane, Maester Luwin, Ser Rodrik, Grand Maester Pycelle, Khal Drogo, Magister Illyrio, and the threesome from the prologue, Gared, Will, and Waymar Royce.
And the ever-popular Red-Headed Whore and Nameless Eunuch.
Rickon, Tommen, Myrcella, and Beth will be non-speaking parts.
People are getting way ahead of themselves with suggestions for Varys, Littlefinger, Lord Tywin, Ser Barristan, Renly, Stannis, Melisandre, etc. None of those characters appear in the pilot, and some won't appear until the second season.
Assuming, of course, that we get that far.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
interesting that GRRM would say gared, will and rodrik were yet to be filled, same with drogo and bran, since he's as much as said that they have been cast through previous clues.
and hey, can he blame us for getting ahead of ourselves? casting a great book can't just stop at whomever appears in the pilot episode!!!!!!
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
I can't see the poll, but the character I am most looking forward to is Tyrion. Tyrion is my favorite character, and I can't wait to see him brought to life.
My next favorite character is Arya, but I feel Arya's role will be minimized initially, so I'm not really expecting too much out of her character for now.
I admit I'm curious how my feelings toward Catelyn will be with this show. Personally, I'm part of the population that severely dislikes Catelyn. I wonder if Ehle will be able to make her a more sympathetic character.
meggyoQuote Reply
Isn't that a pretty old post though Ryan?
Posted before the last set of clues that gave us some more characters, and before he said 'one down, one to go'?
legion_quest666Quote Reply
@legion
HA!
so much for my RSS reader putting the wrong post in the wrong order.
sheeeeesh.
DISREGARD MY FAULTY REPORTING!!
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Ned. Has to be Ned. The first season is his story, and for all that the supporting cast has to develop to hold our interest into season two, it's going to be up to Bean to make us care in the first place.
BPQuote Reply
Everything and everyone…
The rabbitQuote Reply
Hodor.
KukashQuote Reply
I think, given Ryan's breakdown, I am most looking forward to seeing Tyrion on screen, but most interested in seeing Tamzin Merchant as Dany. So much fuss has been made by people complaining that she's wrong for the role, so I'm really interested in seeing what she does with it.
I'm also interested in seeing Catelyn, as she's a character that I didn't connect with well when reading the books, but think will work well on screen.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
I voted Dinklage, but I'm actually looking forward to Mark Addy as Robert. One of the great things about this series is that you fall in love with so many different characters. I think Addy might be capable of acting in a way that I can fall in love with Robert as I did not in the books.
hurtyawonQuote Reply
Having seen Tamzin in the last episode of The Tudors, I am relatively convinced that she can be Dany.
Paul, that is a really good point about Catelyn; when I read the books, I have to admit thinking she was a bit of a cow, mainly because she always seems to be anatagonising my favourite characters, and possibly because her story is very much a parents story and I'm not a parent.
She really needs to come off as more than that so that people care should we get to the Red Wedding. I think they have the right actress to do that though.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
I had forgotten about Mark Addy as Robert.
That was interesting casting from the start and it will be interesting to see how he pulls off looking like the old fat king who was once a great warrior as he just isn't the type to do that usually.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
@parapalegion and gudebehavior…
totally agree about catelyn, actually. she's off my radar because she was always the character who i leap frogged past to get to the characters i cared about more deeply.
i wonder if this is a case where D&D will do things for her outside of the boundaries of the book to give us more sympathy. it really was missing from the red wedding. i was more horrified by the implication of robb and his wolf being killed, and what that meant to the north.
when i learned that catelyn had been reborn as stoneheart, i was like, NO! but then i was like, HMMMMM, what could THIS mean now?
anyhow, just wanted to agree that it will be interesting how she comes across to the viewer. a lot of that will rest with ehle, so i suppose i should shortlist catelyn too!
for some reason i feel confident that NCW will pull off jaime, and jaime doesn't have a MAJOR role in the first part of the first book, so he's a little off my radar as well.
wait, wait, i've got it. since we may never see the pilot in its current form, i have a nostradamus type prediction:
after filming the pilot, there will be contract and scheduling problems with sean bean, and we will lose him as ned. at which point……
i will be most interested in seeing joseph mawle play ned!!! and how interesting and unlikely it would be if that happened!
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
I think Sansa might be another character who gets that sort of treatment.
*SPOILERS*
In the books it's so easy to forget that she's still basically a child. Her early betrayal of Arya is due to her infatuation with Joff. Her betrayal of her father is a result of her being played by Cersei. I think when we get a visual reminder of how young she is, the fact that her impulsiveness and childish belief in the divinity of princes and queens could cause such tragedy is going to be that much more devastating. (Not to mention her horror when she realizes what she's done.)
*SPOILERS*
Paul GudeQuote Reply
I'm not familiar enough with HBO to know this, but how graphic can we expect the sex scenes to be? I've never seen an HBO show besides a few episodes of the Sopranos.
Did someone answer this up-thread? I didn't see it if they did but HBO is not at all shy about doing graphic sex and nudity. Just check out some of the scenes with Atia in Rome (a show you really should watch anyway because it's very good, and a lot like GoT) to see what I mean. Full frontal nudity, full nude sex…no close-ups or anything, it's not porn, but you get the idea. If it were a movie it would be rated NC-17 in the U.S. (which used to be called X).
As for the poll, Tyrion for me, he's one of my two favorite characters in literature ever (along with L'Emmerdeur from Neal Stephenson's "The Baroque Cycle"). Arya is my second favorite character in the series, and as noted by other above, I think a LOT will ride one how well that little girl can pull off the role. I sure hope she's up to it, it's going to be very difficult. I think it would be a difficult role for an adult, even, so we'll see.
The ability of the kids is my biggest concern for the show out of everything, so much rides on three very young actors (Arya, Sansa and Bran), and they are three of the youngest characters in the story. Sometimes productions can't even find a single child actor to properly carry a show, much less three. Crossing my fingers.
Dany is my 3rd favorite character and I have this sneaking suspicion that Merchant will do the role justice. If you watch her acting reel at her Agent's website, you'll see the girl has some very strong acting chops and can do a pretty wide range of characters. Her work on The Tudors thus far has been limited to just looking pretty, mostly. However, her first scene I think was pretty interesting, where she's being interviewed by one of Henry's courtiers. She conveys simultaneous naivete due to her age, with a sort of raw sexual charm (she was supposedly NOT a virgin by that point, already). I think it was more subtle than people realize.
Also very interested in what Kit Harrington will do. Just looking at the pictures of him, the guy oozes charisma and if what Dave and Dan supposedly said about his auditions are true, it sounds like that also translates to his performances. I wonder if he will be the big, break out star of the show?
BrudeQuote Reply
@Brude
I own all three volumes of the Baroque Cycle, but have been daunted to dive in. Should I take the plunge? I can't tell how great the books are because I haven't found many/any others who have read and/or raved about them.
I loved Snow Crash and Diamond Age by Stephenson though.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
i voted for Dinklage as Tyrion because i love the character and the actor but i'm probably more interested/concerned with how well the actors playing Bran and Arya pull off their roles.
izakmoQuote Reply
Ryan,
I have to say that Bean is going to be excellent as Ned, and I know a lot of people who want to tune in just because of him. So, I am very much for him in that role.
That said, I do enjoy a bit of meta-casting here and there. If the book-reading audience watching Joseph Mawle as Benjen gets a sudden flash that he would make a just as good or better Ned from the books than the Ned they're currently watching on screen, something crazy-awesome might happen. The producers and director may be able to give off the impression, without overt foreshadowing, that we're looking at Ned's spiritual successor. It might make them anxious for him to return "from the dead" (see what I did there?) and fulfill all the promise we've seen in his first scenes.
It almost makes me wonder if they aren't going to go with the extended Benjen storyline (which I still think would be awesome) if GRRM couldn't give them a few scenes they could film when Joseph Marwle is on-set that they could pull out when it's time for Benjen to return, in case he's no longer available.
Ryan, on that note, can you speak at all as to the idea of keeping Joseph Marwle under contract for so long, if he won't be showing up until well into the series? Are things like that actually done?
Paul GudeQuote Reply
@ winter
is there a place to view archived poll results?
izakmoQuote Reply
I never understood all the dislike for Catelyn. She was never my favorite character and some of her chapters dragged but I could always sympathize with what she was going through. I couldn't imagine being in her place, with one daughter missing, the other a hostage, her eldest son fighting battle after battle (any of which could be his last) and her younger sons 'dead'. That's enough to drive any mother completely out of her mind. I always saw her as doing what she thought was right but always keeping her children in the foremost of her mind – an admirable quality in any mother.
That said, I really want to see NCW as Jaime. He's such a great character and I love that everyone will hate him during the first season but the people who've read the books know that he's not ALL bad. I never really had a clear image of him in my head but I really like NCW's less than 'beatiful' features for him. In my opinion he ended up more sexy than beautiful, which totally works, and I think he'll nail that arrogance that Jaime has in spades during the first book.
MandaQuote Reply
@The Gude
It's much more common in the Soap Opera genre, but recurring characters do exist in regular series of course.
Sopranos' Big Pussy is one example, where Vincent Pastore was killed off, then made a few appearances several seasons later. That's almost the reverse of the Benjen debacle. And I can't say I've seen many examples where a semi-known actor is cast in a role, then asked to return after a four year break. That would count as a very unique contract.
My guess is that it can only be a tentative contract, non-binding, since it is too long between shooting days. HBO cannot realistically ask Mawle to block out a half-year of his life for a series that hasn't been picked up.
In the commercial world, it comes down to "holds" and "contracts". If you have a crew, you put them on first, second, or third holds. If you a re the second person to request an actor or crew person on a specific day and then decide to book them, then the other company who has generally 24-48 hours to challenge the hold, and either book or release them.
It's different with signed actors to a television series, but my guess is that it will fall somewhere in-between for Mawle, and Jaime, and any other characters that leave and come back. They will have a contract that has a loose hold on said actor, and likely a firm hold window X-amount of months before the show would go into production, at which point HBO gets first hold on the actor, and any other jobs he is offered will be a 2nd hold, and HBO will decide to book him or not.
Kind of a convoluted answer, but hopefully it's somewhat helpful.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
I own all three volumes of the Baroque Cycle, but have been daunted to dive in. Should I take the plunge? I can't tell how great the books are because I haven't found many/any others who have read and/or raved about them.
You might want to read "Cryptonomicon" first, though you don't have to. It's a related book. One character is in both…hundreds of years later – and no, that's not a spoiler – and the major characters in Baroque Cycle are all ancestors of the major characters in Cryptonomicon. Like Cryptonomicon, The Baroque Cycle is very dense – more dense even then that book. They take some brain power, but are also very rewarding. You don't NEED to read it first, but it might make some details more enjoyable. Another option would be to read Baroque Cycle first and then read Cryptonomicon, and see how it meshes that way. I think it might have the same effect when details from one book pop up in the other.
L'Emmerdeur, aka "The King of the Vagabonds," aka "Half-Cocked" Jack Shaftoe (because he's both crazy and has only 1/2 of his cock left), aka Ali Zaybak, aka Quicksilver,is an astonishingly fun character and has probably most exciting and adventurous life of any ever written, at least that I know. Seriously, his life is like combining Indiana Jones, James Bond and every character Errol Flynn ever played x 10. It's stuff like that which makes some of the other parts of the book, which can be rather long (though fascinating) information dumps worthwhile.
The books are extremely funny as well, so yeah. I HIGHLY recommend them, especially if you are already a fan of Snow Crash and The Diamond Age (for me the first half of Diamond Age was amazing, but I kind of didn't like the second). The writing is much more dense, but he has also become a much better writer, as well. It's worth while, for sure.
BrudeQuote Reply
@Brude
Diamond Age did get weird, especially when Hackworth ended up in some disturbing underwater ritual in tunnels? Remember that?
Okay, I think you've offered enough of a caution and recommendation for me to dig into it. I've had a few false starts, reading the first couple chapters involving Waterhouse as the POV character?
Thanks!
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Thanks, Ryan. That totally makes sense to me.
I think we've talked about this before, but it seems to me that if the pilot is any indication there's going to be a slight push to heighten Jaime's role in the first series via some extra scenes.
*SPOILER*
I wouldn't be at all surprised if we, for instance, get to see him in battle with Robb's forces. I'm even more looking forward to Tryrion's rescue attempt. While someone relating this works in a book, how much better to see it actually executed?
*END SPOILER*
Again, if they end up doing this (and again, it seems they're doing it in the pilot) one can always hope they may do the same with Benjen.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
izakmo: Here are links to all the old polls. They are private polls, so you need a password to view them. The password for each is "winter".
Would you buy HBO just for Game of Thrones?
How do you think HBO should handle portraying the direwolves?
What do you think of the Game of Thrones cast so far?
WinterIsComingQuote Reply
@Manda
Personally, I hated Catelyn from the moment she told Jon that it should've been him instead of Bran laying there possibly dying. A person who could so hate a child for something he had no control over (in his case Ned supposedly having an extramarital relationship) is beyond my sympathy. I could understand being bitter about the situation, but to hate him in the way she does is just irrational. If she should be pissed at anyone, it's Ned.
As for the rest of her storyline – I always found most of her actions stupid. Yes, to her mind it was for her kids, but then again I had to wonder if she really was thinking about her kids. When she ran off to King's Landing to warn Ned she left behind all 3 of her sons – how smart was that? Not very smart at all. Almost nothing she did helped her children – most of what she did hurt her family in one way or another. I don't think she ever stopped to really think of all the possible consequences to her actions – she always seemed to act too hastily. She may have thought she was doing what was best, but that didn't make her any less of an idiot in my opinion.
At any rate, I'm hoping Catelyn translates better on the screen, and if anyone can do it, it's Ehle.
@Paul Gude
Agreed – I think Jaime's role will definitely be beefed up – along with Cersei's. Dunno about Benjen though. How important Benjen is depends on things no one knows at this point – it's possible he's truly dead and not due to come back at all.
meggyoQuote Reply
I still can't shake the feeling that Benjen will get much more time in the show than the books. Mawle just seems like big time overkill for a scene or two and I'm not convinced they would be able to make some deal for a possible larger role 4-5 seasons in. So I think it could be two things.
a.) The show is just going to be that good where the small-medium sized roles get actors that could be a lead on another show.
b.) Benjen role is going to be played up more.
That said, after reading about his story and seeing his showreel, I am very intrigued to see Mawle as Benjen. Tyrion (and then Jon) get my vote though for characters most looked forward to, however.
ChrisQuote Reply
@The B.S.I.C (Benjen Screentime Increase Coalition)
I don't think there's any way they show any more of Benjen until at least ADwD, or whenever GRRM decides to have him appear again. A lot of the tension up North has to do with rangers going north of the wall and disappearing.
This has a profound ominous impact on Jon because Benjen is close to him. Remember, Benjen is also the one who convinces Jon to go North in the first place.
So the ongoing plotline as well as the ultimate decision to go on a Benjen reconnoissance would be destroyed if we knew of Benjen's fate.
Just my two cents.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
I'm looking forward to seeing Titties B. Shweet! Lots and Lots of Titties! But seriously folks, this series is gonna BOMB. What a total disaster.
DaveyQuote Reply
@Chris
I can't see Benjen getting played up too much more. There doesn't really seem to be a reason to at this point – unless GRRM has told D&D plot points that remain unknown currently to the general public.
Also, I don't think Mawle is really that big of a name. I had never heard of him before until he came up for discussion on this site.
The only thing I can see them doing with Benjen is perhaps maybe expanding the interaction between him and Jon a bit on the way to and at the Wall.
meggyoQuote Reply
Diamond Age did get weird, especially when Hackworth ended up in some disturbing underwater ritual in tunnels? Remember that?
Yeah, the drummers in the underwater habitrail tunnels was where that book went off the rails for me. I remember that happened right before the mid-point "Part 1"/"Part 2" break and everything after that just wasn't so artfully contrived as was Part 1. It was that and the later part with the army of children (am I remembering that right?) which just seemed to not ring true to me. I get the point he was making about human society being turned into something more akin to a hive-mind, but as a story it wasn't so interesting.
I've had a few false starts, reading the first couple chapters involving Waterhouse as the POV character?
Yes, Daniel Waterhouse – he's probably the least interesting of the three major character in the series to me. Jack and Eliza's stories are far more interesting. There's great stuff in Daniel's story too, but not much of what I would call excitement.
BrudeQuote Reply
@meggyo
I totally agree with your sentiments regarding Catelyn. Her scorn toward Jon created a severe rift for me. I remember half wanting the assassin to kill her first and then have the direwolf attack.
Later on, I grow to care somewhat about her plight, but mostly for plot reasons rather than her character specifically. I wanted the truth of the Lannisters uncovered, and I think most readers, after "The Things I Do for Love," understood the main overarching plot thread to be what would happen when Ned and team opened up pandora's box and tried to expose the Lannister twins for who they truly were.
For the most part, my relationship was a half-hearted apathy mixed with moments of sympathy then quickly replaced by the callousness and annoyance at her one-dimensional plight (someone should count how many times she thinks to herself how guilty or terrible she would feel if anything happened to her precious babies).
We get it, you're a mother who regrets what happened to Bran, and letting Ned go to King's Landing, and supporting Robb, and just about everything else in your life.
Now can we get to a Jon, or Tyrion, or Arya, or hell even a Dany chapter please? Thank you very much…
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
I have read almost all the books from the series "Song of Ice and Fire", from which this pilot is based. In case any of you didn't know, it's about a high fantasy realm that has incest and kill each other. And there are dragons and prostitutes. I know more about SOIAF than most people. Dare I say more than GRRM himself. However, the live action show is going to KNOCK YOUR SOCKS off, because it's going to be SO DAMN DELICIOUS. The only thing I am worried about is how WHITE TRASH the scripts come off, especially when compared to many high quality "medieval" scripts.
MiddletonQuote Reply
@meggyo
I'm in no way defending Catelyn; she did a bunch of stupid things. All I'm saying is that in the general sense, I can sympathize/relate to her.
The comment to Jon was a d-bag thing to say, no doubt about it. Like you said, she's blaming him for something he had no control over and it's not fair to him at all. The thing is though, is she's flawed just like every other character in the book. I can't bring myself to full out HATE her just because she doesn't love Jon and because she made some dumb decisions. Haven't all of the characters made at least one stupid decision at one point during the series so far?
MandaQuote Reply
@Brude
happy to be having a parallel OT conversaion about Stephenson on this thread, and not a single complainer yet (jinxed!)
gotta love the WiC blog.
i remember the army of children as well. once nell's story commences.
i just hope that if clooney succeeds in turning diamond age into a series, that he doesn't mess it up too much, and finds a different way to have all the storylines converge into a more powerful climax.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
@Middleton
"White trash?" I'm going to assume you're referring to incest?
meggyoQuote Reply
1. Definitely SEAN BEAN as EDDARD. He was my dream-casting, years ago, and I was so shocked when I heard the news that he had actually been cast. One of my favourite actors playing one of my favourite characters. I simply CANNOT WAIT to see him on the screen!
2. Arya would be my second choice, as she's one of my favourite characters, and I want to see her alive and in the flesh.
3. I guess Tyrion, although to be honest, I'm MUCH less convinced about Dinklage than everyone else seems to be. Yes, he's a great actor… but his face and voice don't really match the Tyrion I see in my head. I'm sure he'll be great, however, and I do look forward to seeing him in action.
lexQuote Reply
@Manda
Good points, and one could argue that Catelyn's comment to Jon was more of a proxy to define Jon's situation than it was Catelyn's.
In fact, many of her actions were proxy actions intended to define other characters around her instead (Bran, Robb, Ned, Jon, etc.). Sansa and Arya were the only ones she didn't have a direct hand in affecting, and ironically whom she spends most of the books trying to help.
I think that was what made her paper thin to me. You could almost see GRRM's puppet strings attached to her limbs, as she made her way through the story to fill in all the little plot holes.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
@Manda
True, Catelyn is flawed like all the characters in this story, but I think because the end results of her decision making seemed to usually go bad it was hard for me to really like her. It also didn't help that she antagonized my favorite character. ;)
I think it will be easier to have sympathy for her when she's given a face. It's easier to sympathize with a real person then just a character in a book sometimes (yes, Catelyn's not a "real person" but I think you can get where I'm going with that). I think she'll be an easier character to cope with onscreen.
meggyoQuote Reply
@Ryan
I think that's the role that Catelyn played: the perfect character for others to play off of.
The only point that I was trying to make is that – as a mother – I couldn't imagine going through what she's gone through as far as her kids are concerned. She wasn't a deep character, she was a convenient one but I was still able to put myself in her shoes and really FEEL for her.
Sansa is another character that is widely hated but I just see her as a naive little girl who doesn't understand the consequences of her actions. Which, in my opinion, makes her a tragic (and flawed) character.
@meggyo
I agree that more people will 'get' her when they have a face assigned to her. It's easier to get emotional when you actually see the tears.
MandaQuote Reply
The ability of the kids is my biggest concern for the show out of everything, so much rides on three very young actors (Arya, Sansa and Bran), and they are three of the youngest characters in the story. Sometimes productions can't even find a single child actor to properly carry a show, much less three. Crossing my fingers.
This is so true. I was reading through this while watching Flash Forward. The little girl in it is not much of an actress at this point in her life and her scenes are quite a drag on the rest of the show. Considering her father is played by Joseph Fiennes you can imagine the contrast. By the looks of her I would say she's maybe 7 or 8. Maisie is 10? That puts her more in the age range of Anna Paquin in The Piano and Dakota Fanning in Man on Fire. Casting Bran is a worry. Anybody have any examples of really good child actors that young?
I voted for Bean in the poll. I've said before that I am most looking forward to the scene where he's dealing with Arya and Needle.
gofalconsQuote Reply
@gofalcons
Alex Etel was 9 when he filmed Millions. Late 9's but still. Brilliant performance.
Ayush Mahesh Khedekar was also allegedly 8 when filming began for Slumdog Millionaire, and I think he was one of the best actors in the film, regardless what language.
They may cast Bran to be closer to 9 to be honest. Just my hunch.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
For me it was a bit of a surprise when I went to the boards to see that so many people disliked Catelyn and Sansa. Catelyn hates Jon, but looking at the Westeros society that's quite a normal thing, and that she went nuts when all her children are gone is totally understandable. Ehle will probably steal the hearts of the tv-audience as a loving mother.
Sansa is just a little girl getting played by ubercunt (can I say cunt here?) Cersei. I'm curious to see how that translates to screen, Heady manipulating Turner. But I think the tv-audience will hate Sansa for not backing up her little sister, hey everybody is rooting for Arya!
KnurkQuote Reply
Always adored Catelyn. Don't get the hatred for her at all. I've heard all the arguments, and they really don't make sense to me. She's by far the most real, decent, even-handed character in the series as far as I'm concerned.
But then, I don't particularly like a lot of 'fan favourites', so …
SilverstarQuote Reply
Alex Etel, sorry.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
I think Bran is closer to 9 or 10 in the show, IIRC – all of the kids have been aged up which will make for better actors.
BrudeQuote Reply
I really liked Alex Etel in The Waterhorse. Fluff movie for kids but he was great in it. Haven't seen Slumdog or Millions.
gofalconsQuote Reply
I would have voted Mark Addy for Robert, but that was not an option, so I went with Sean Bean as Ned. When I originally read AGoT he was my favorite character, Tyrion a close second. (Although from a whole series read The Hound is my favorite with Tyrion still a close second).
Really I look forward to seeing everyone do a superb job though.
TGrando357Quote Reply
@gofalcons
See both of them. Millions will break your heart, Slumdog will make it soar.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
With regards to Benjen.
I can easily see a number of additional scenes of his journey back to the wall with Jon and Tyrion that could be flashbacked to later on in the series.
There's at least one in the books where Jon recalls in ASoS (so two books after Benjen was last seen) Benjen telling him why Castle Black has no walls.
This would keep Benjen in the mind of the viewers and fill in some history for them as well.
MormegilQuote Reply
The main problem I have with Catelyn is that she cares too much about her children, and the expense of everyone else. That's the quickest path to evil IMO.
Paul JQuote Reply
I'm on the "Catelyn is not so bad side." I forgive her slightly on the Jon stuff because:
1.) Much of it transpire in her grief-stricken stage where she was clearly not herself.
2.) Most lords wouldn't bring home their bastards to raise(whether its really his or not). This is clearly an insult to her, and Jon existence reminds her of this every time she sees her. Plus, I think that her treatment towards Jon is more of a redirection of feelings towards Ned about him betraying her. Yes, she is still a bitch towards Jon but this isn't enough for me to vehemently hate her like some do.
I am also excite to see her played by J. Ehle. I think shes going to really own the character and bring her to life in a much more endearing way than how many see Catelyn in the books.
ChrisQuote Reply
@Chris
I didn't see anyone here vehemently hate Catelyn as such, but I suppose it's plausible. You just don't get as much of a dimensional glimpse inside Catelyn's heart, and it's funny she goes by Lady Stoneheart upon her rebirth. She's just OKAY for me, doesn't have the allure of Jon Snow, the intrigue of Arya Stark, or the quippishly cool demeanor of Tyrion Lannister.
She's just….. OKAY. Helps the plot along, that's about it for me.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Millions was a decent film, Slumdog………didn't get the hype and found it predictable and dull.
As for Catelyn, my main problem with her is more to do with her the character. She knows when stuff is being done wrong or when things might go bad, and yet she never speaks out. She is forever throwing out this internal excuse that 'it isn't her place. Annoys me second only to Arya's 'i'm 9 but can deal with anything' characteristics.
That and her potential murder of Pod. If she kills him, mad zombie or not, I will never forgive the character :P
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Jon is also the living reminder of her husband's infidelity; that's a hard pill to swallow. I have a step son who lives with us and I love him dearly but he was born before my husband and I met so it's easy for me to accept him as my child. Yet if he had been conceived via my husband cheating on me and then I had to see him every day…I could see how that would breed animosity.
I could be wrong but I don't remember it ever saying that Catelyn was ever outright MEAN to Jon (aside from that awful comment) just that she had never made him feel a part of the family. Something like 'he wasn't a Stark and Catelyn had never let him forget that'. That to me just sounds like she never treated him as a son and, as intuitive as children are, Jon would have picked up on that animosity even if she never voiced it.
Like I said, Catelyn isn't perfect – no more than any of the other characters – but I don't see any reason to really hate her.
Glad to see I'm not the only one, hehe
MandaQuote Reply
Gah! I should have refreshed before posting. Chris said basically the same thing I did. Sorry!
MandaQuote Reply
@Brude
FWIW, in the leaked script Bran is 8. That can all change and the logistics of his age (and that of the actor playing him) has already been discussed to death in previous threads.
gofalconsQuote Reply
@ Manda
Yeah, she makes one mean comment at a time when she's half out of her mind with grief. And feels guilty about it later. GRRM has told us that was the only time she ever said anything like that to him. The rest of the time, she wasn't a mother figure to him, but she never prevented him from having pretty much the same upbringing as his brothers.
@ legion
When she does speak out, she generally gets ignored. I'm not surprised she gives up sometimes. She told Robb not to send Theon to speak with his father, for example. Being a woman in a man's world is not an easy thing to be.
@ invertebrate
I see her very differently (and I find Jon dull, Arya scary, and Tyrion someone who gets more praise than he really deserves sometimes). As far as I'm concerned, Catelyn is the one who shows us what war is like, for those left behind. I feel her agony far more strongly than that of any other character, and her story resonates more with me than any of the 'cool' 'badass' 'awesome' characters like Jaime or Tyrion or Jon.
SilverstarQuote Reply
I don't know about the other folks, but I've never hated Catelyn, just didn't find her as interesting as the other characters.
The one thing I loved was her dislike for Jon. Very real.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
What I loved about the Catelyn character is the sense of desperation and difficulty she is dealing with through out the books. She's someone who has never really had to deal with these sorts of "Game of Thrones" machinations in her life, though I suspect that growing up at the Riverrun court she did witness a fair bit of it in her youth. She is of the South, but her entire adult life has been spent up North where things are simply done differently.
So the whole time it's like she's playing a game of 'catch-up,' using all of her wits and sometimes very scant resources at her disposal to affect events to save her family, save herself and save the cause of both the Starks and the Tullys. She acts as a tutor to Robb – and does it quite well, IMO – helping him to come into his own as a leader of men and then a king. She has to give him the kinds of lessons one might expect more from the men in his life. But with Ned now gone, he won't get this training because he also has to prematurely play the role of a man and not show weakness in the presence of his bannermen. I think the Blackfish is the exception there, him being Robb's uncle and a fine man to learn from, but the Blackfish isn't always around so a lot of this falls to Catelyn.
She has to use what she learned from her uncle and father in her childhood, and I think she does this quite well and this is where she really shows her strength. The things she teaches Robb about making hard decisions, acting a King, making sacrifices for political expediency, are all a big part of why he is so successful in the early going of the War of Five Kings. Yes, she fails to heed this advice when it comes to her own decisions (but how true to life is that?), but it's also true that Robb makes his biggest blunder when he's off away from Catelyn and this blunder is what winds up most costing him.
BrudeQuote Reply
Ryan mentioned Catelyn bemoaning over and over again about her kids, but really that's what mothers do. Mothers take the guilt and shoulder it even if they weren't actually at fault.
The day before my older daughter turned one she tripped over my friend's foot and cut her face on the corner of the open dishwasher. I very calmly brought her to the hospital to have ONE stitch put in her lip but afterwards I broke down in tears because I felt that I should have seen that coming a mile away. Open dishwasher + toddler = disaster every time, right?
As a mother, I think GRRM hit the nail on the head when he wrote Catelyn – faults and all.
MandaQuote Reply
@Catelynites
I think what's good about this series is GRRM has made them real enough that where one can find a character boring another can find them fascinating. Where one thinks one is overhyped, another thinks they are underappreciated.
However, Catelyn's anger flash to Jon wasn't a reason to dislike Catelyn, but it WAS a reason for my apathy toward her to grow by about the middle of AGoT.
@Manda
I totally get the guilt. A couple months ago, we removed the front rail from my daughter's (2) crib, so she could sleep in a "big girl bed". We even gave her a "big girl pillow" to sleep with.
Not 30 mintues into her nap we heard a thud above us, followed by wailing. We walked in to find her on the floor kneeling, sobbing, with the big girl pillow stuck over her head.
When we got her settled, we found she wouldn't stop moaning, and would not move her right arm, kept it tucked by her belly.
A hospital trip and an x-ray later confirmed our worry, she had snapped her collarbone clear through.
A thousand things went through my head. Was it too soon? Should we have just put the mattress on the floor? Why didn't I lay down the carpet tiles before converting her bed? Would I ever be able to swing her around again? And so on.
But still, in prose form, the repetitive unforgiveness of her own actions became… well, repetitive. It became a sob story to me, and I really didn't want to get brought into the drudgery of grief over and over. Maybe it was too real for me? I don't know.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
I suppose, not being a mother, I just simply cannot relate to Catelyn. Although I would like to think that I would always try to do the best for my children as well. I just find most of her decision making over-emotional and irrational – and those are just not qualities I find endearing (or perhaps I'm just a cold and heartless person). So do I really "hate" her, no, not really. I will concede that she does do good things for Robb though. But otherwise, she seems to go from one disaster to another.
And as someone noted earlier, in the beginning she is very much a tool for the story (and by tool I mean a way for GRRM to show us different places and people in Westeros). If not for her, we wouldn't have had that whole section in the Eyrie with Tyrion's trial (which I did like).
meggyoQuote Reply
Full story of my daughter's incident HERE for those interested.
A collection of my daughter's growth from infant to toddler HERE, just because I'm a proud papa with a camera.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Like most people, I'm interested in seeing Tyrion because Dinklage is who I (and everybody else) imagined in the role. I have no doubt he'll be amazing.
Jaime and Catelyn because they're such complex, wonderfully nuanced characters and it'll be great to see skilled actors taking them on. I'm also curious to see the fan reaction to a living, breathing version of the much-maligned Catelyn.
Dany, because of all the fuss that's been made about whether Merchant can pull it off or not, and Cersei, because I'm curious if Headey/the writers can give her some extra dimensions and make her a richer character.
Arya, because I'm really nervous about whether a child actor can get her right. I'm dying for some reassurance that Williams can pull her off.
Fate’s BitchQuote Reply
@Ryan
It really is heartbreaking when something happens to you're child and your story proves that it isn't just mothers who feel this way. How is your daughter, btw? Everything healing well?
I do see what you're saying about it getting repetitive. Like I said, she was never my favorite character and I didn't look forward to her chapters aside from curiosity about Robb and his situation but I never understood the dislike for her on all the boards.
GRRM never really gave us insight to Catelyn aside from being grief stricken and guilt ridden.
@ meggyo
I do feel like Catelyn made one bad decsion (leaving Winterfell) and it just snowballed into one bad decision after the next. But then again, it would have made for a boring book if all that drama never happened.
MandaQuote Reply
@Ryan
Your daughter is very, very sweet little girl.
I hope she is well, now.
As for our Cat…I like her somehow, by understanding the things around her, the traditions of westerosy (medieval) world; she always presents a tragic figure to me.
The thing that upset me is her "zombiness", but we shell see, that story is not over yet.
The rabbitQuote Reply
@Manda
She was fully recovered in 3 weeks. Would have been a 3 month recovery for an adult. Children are amazing!
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
@Ryan
Your daughter is gorgeous! Love the curls!
Maybe I should start a blog just to show off my kids. I could fill a book with all the silly/insightful things my 3 year old comes up with.
MandaQuote Reply
@Manda
She was fully recovered in 3 weeks. Would have been a 3 month recovery for an adult. Children are amazing!
Regarding Catelyn, she also pushed Jon away, left Bran's side to do some foolish investigating not days after an assassin broke into his room; advised Ned to take up the position of Hand, took a back seat with Robb when she should have spoken more freely and acted more as a regent than a mother; treated with King's Landing and let Jaime free to Brienne's charge on the false hope she would convince the Lannisters to free her girls; and she also brought Tyrion to the Vale to be tried on what we all knew to be a fool's errand, and so on and so on.
Without her, we wouldn't get the glimpse into much of Westeros, but the things she does along the way are either evident manipulations by GRRM to show us parts of his story and plug up holes in his plot, or very passive actions/reactions to her situations.
That's all I'm saying.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
@Manda
LOL…I definitely agree with you here. If not for all these terrible incidents, we would have a lot of dry spots. So, yes, as much as she frustrates me, if not for her I wouldn't be reading as interesting a series as I am. So for that much, I can appreciate her. :D
@invertebrae
Your daughter is a cutie. :)
@Fate's Bitch
Agree with you on Merchant/Headey. I very much want Merchant to succeed in her portrayal of Dany (I admit, I'm one of the people on the fence about her casting). And I do think Headey is going to be given more material to work with for Cersei – all of which I'm sure will be deliciously horrid (I mean that in the best way possible – Cersei is the character most readers love to hate). ;)
meggyoQuote Reply
@Manda
DO IT! The only joy greater than photgraphing your children is sharing those photos with others.
IMHO.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Lol.
I got out for an hour and when I come back we've turned into a mother's meeting!
Now I feel young. Which is nice.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
This is off-topic, but I'm gonna post it anyway.
I just found out CBS has a few old episodes of Beauty and the Beast up on their website. The episode "Ozymandian" was written by George, while he acted as "executive story consultant" on "Nor Iron Bars a Cage."
I'm sure many people here, like me, have never seen GRRM's television work and since he'll be writing an episode of Thrones I thought it might be a interesting to get a sense of his script writing talents. So there you go!
WinterIsComingQuote Reply
@ legion
Sorry! The thread did get hijacked by Catelyn/mother stuff. I'll shut up now since I seemed to have beaten my point into the ground.
@Ryan
My Facebook page gets loaded with pics of the kids and kid quotes. All my friends probably hate me for it. Isn't it amazing how your life gets taken over when the babies are born?
btw, I subscribed to your blog.
MandaQuote Reply
@Manda
Thank you for subscribing, I'll try and keep it interesting. What is your Facebook info? you can email me HERE.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
i am most looking forward to seeing TM as dany, who is my favorite character. i am really curious to see how that whole part of the show is going to get pulled together with the rest of it.
but in lieu of that option, i voted tyrion because i know dinklage is going to just melt our faces with his amazingness.
educatedponyQuote Reply
I'll admit that the Catelyn stuff is going to be different for those of us with kids.
When I watched Sympathy for Lady Vengance I got a completely different vibe off of it than from some of my friends for that reason. Kidnapping/Ransom shows suddenly have newfound resonance.
I'll further go with the idea that the Arya, Sansa stuff is going to be extra tough for those of us with daughters.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
@Gudenheimer
this series will be nothing if not tough to watch in parts. also, tough to take your eyes off of.
a sick, sweet addiction. deliciously putrid.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Sean Bean will be as good as always. His best performances, in my opinion, were in Red Riding and Outlaw.
Arya will be interesting. Of curse Headey will be great. I'm looking forward to NCW, not cos I care too much about Jaime in GoT, but because his scenes with Brienne are gonna be excellent.
I know I have said this a thousand times, but my favourite character is Bronn. I can't wait to see who they get for him. (Dominic West, please if you're out there, hear my prayer!)
MozartQuote Reply
Syrio Forel.
I sorta envision him as Mike Loades. Look at him in this video and watch that point where he says 'Just so.'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX8KUXvFVD0&feature=PlayList&p=550676A95BD67128&index=1&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL
Errant VentureQuote Reply
I have to admit, when I read Bronn, I saw Jason Statham in my head. I don't think he'll be in the series, of course. Dominic West would be fine for me.
If this makes sense, Bronn strikes me as the character that will instantly make whomever is playing him cool in the eyes of the audience, especially those who have never read the books. It'll happen because Bronn is cool. He's the Han Solo that shot first. He's Snake Plissken.
I don't care who they get. Seeing him on screen is going to be super amazing.
As far as the pilot goes, though, I forgot Harry Lloyd as Viserys. Viserys has always been a kind of one-note character when being read, but I think could still be amazing to watch. I always saw him being played by a young Klaus Kinski. Having seen Harry Lloyd on Doctor Who, I think he can pull it off.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
I love Bronn. There's just something about him…
I could see Dominic West…fits well with my mental image of him.
MandaQuote Reply
Syrio has got to be Italian or Spanish. Definitely Mediteranean anyway.
MozartQuote Reply
Great comments, as usual, and great topic, Winter! You're filling up the time well. Before we know it they'll all be in Ireland filming. I wonder if Morocco filming will begin at or around the same time.
I voted for Nikolaj Coster-Waldau as Jaime because I think this role is vital for the long life of the series. He has to be absolutely despised at first … and by the end of season three we need to have people really starting to love him.
(Plus, as an aside, I have a friend who is insane for NCW. She watched all of New Amsterdam, watched Virtuosity … and I brought up Game of Thrones she says she "can't wait to see him as a dashing knight!"
…
AHAHAHAHAHAHAH! I made her SWEAR to me not to read the books (no danger – she's a model and hates reading anything this side of Cosmo) or the spoilers. I assured her the story in the first episode was worth it enough for the wait.
"The things I do for love" is gonna just KILL her. I can't stop snickering…)
I also agree with everyone who says they are extremely curious how the kids will do. Sophie Turner, Maise Williams, whoever plays Bran (yoo hoo Sue, still no news!?) … these actors will have a pretty sharp learning curve, will have vital scenes in season 1, and will have to carry huge chunks of story by season 2. Luckily they are surrounded by gobs of talent, so hopefully the pointers they get will be salient and worth their weight in gold.
I too have a daughter, age 14, so I understand the protectiveness a parent has. It's probably why I gravitate toward Sansa and understand parts of her irrational rationale. Like Sansa, my daughter's head in in the clouds (she wants to be married someday but only likes boys from Manga, wants to be an actress but never goes to her lessons, auditions for anything, etc.)
I see the clothes kids wear these days and go, "Why are they sexualizing kids these days?" … and then basically remember my first girlfriend was 13. And then I basically freak out. Thus the tug of war. I go "Did I like girls when I was 14? Yep. Do I want any boys liking my daughter at 14? No."
(Wait for it, invertebrah, Gudey Gumdrops … wait 'til your girls hit that age. It is so freaking bizarre.)
To round this out …
I'm pretty much looking forward to seeing everything. Opening scene is gonna be, "OMG IT'S WILL AND GARED AND WAYMER." Beheading scene is gonna be "OMG ITS NED AND JON AND BRAN AND THEON AND—"
I'll probably have to DVR the bloody thing just so I can hit the pause button in every scene, just to stare at each actor's transformation. So, yanno, I can make the experience of FIRST EPISODE last like 3 hours.
(Ah, who am I kidding? I'll be too sucked in to hit any pause buttons on the first viewing…)
About Yea HighQuote Reply
I would vote for Dinklage as Tyrion, but honestly- just like a good trapeze artist I think it will look so effortless for him to inhabit Tyrion that I must actually vote for Tamzin Merchant as Dany. I have watched her on Tudors, and not to be negative just truthful her scenes didn't do it for me. Of course the season that aired didn't demand much of her. And the show itself (Tudors) is a little hit and miss in tone and more importantly acting. The writing is good and its gorgeous to watch, but I think the cast and or/director(s) need a little work. I want her to prove me wrong. I want her to show me that it wasn't her- it was the fact that she had to play off of the (IMHO) awful Johnathon Rhys-Meyers and that in truth she is a very talented young lady.
BrienneQuote Reply
Oops- I commented before I actually voted. Where was Tamzin in the pole? So I voted for NCW. Loved him in Amsterdam. Looking forward to him inhabiting a stronger character.
BrienneQuote Reply
I voted for Dinklage but NCW is a close second. I have no doubts Dinklage will be amazing as Tyrion. I haven't seen much of NCW and I want to know what he can do.
I'm also really excited to see Mark Addy. I think he might surprise some people.
Off Topic-ish: I'm currently watching Rozencrantz and Guildenstern are dead. Iain Glen plays Hamlet. This movie is amazingly bizare and I love it.
JillianQuote Reply
Well, of course it'll be fantastic to see Dinklage as Tyrion – but I knew that he'd have the vast majority of the votes anyway, so I voted for Ehle as Catelyn. Ehle has performed very solidly in every other thing I've seen her in. I'd love to see her playing a mature character who makes all the wrong decisions for all the right reasons.
ChristopherQuote Reply
Jillian, one of my all-time favorites. Would love to see Oldman and Roth in this as well.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
@Paul
That would be the dream lol
It's been a few years since I've watched this. I really do need to buy it.
JillianQuote Reply
I voted Cersei just because i know i will love Dinklage as Tyrion. But based on all the characters from the series I would have to say Arya. She is my favorite character, as hard as that is to pick…
EricQuote Reply
meggyo: "White trash?" I'm going to assume you're referring to incest?
I am talking about the entire leaked pilot script, the dialogue. I was watching shows such as Bleak House and The Tudors–both of which have very interesting, flowery language. We do NOT need to compare them, but this is where my mind was at. Then I read the leaked script and thought—wow, what kind of people talk like this? not nobles, more like a poor uneducated white folks out in the boonies, who have no regard for language whatsoever, and are complete nihilists with a penchant for swearing with hardly much flair.
The books did not come across that way when I read them although the lines are very similar. I wonder how this transfer to screen? The script is screaming: "Sopranos". They were, of course, a bunch of WT.
MiddletonQuote Reply
PS I watched the first season of Rome and thought everyone was poor white trash as well. Except for that brilliant (character) Octavius.
Apparently the budget was dumped (wasted) on the opening cheap CGI scenes and the Lou Ferrigno cameo.
Rome: What a waste. So much potential; so much failure.
MiddletonQuote Reply
Middleton,
Usually, I try not to resort to ad hominem attacks, but you're a blithering idiot.
SergioCQHQuote Reply
@SergioCQH
Excellent willpower.
But, why am I an idiot? I think I have a point there. Of course I am talking only about a leaked script that was probably made better since then.
MiddletonQuote Reply
Middleton, I'll tell you why you are an idiot my dear. It's because you're either with us or against us. "There is no middle ground."
Get with it man. Everyone here has complete (blind) confidence in HBO's track record. If you don't, Go Back to Showtime, you dirty, dirty troll!
GoT must happen. It must happen for the sake of all sci-fi shows in the future. (For GRRM books sales to get a boost.) If this project succeeds then we might see the other THOUSANDS of BEST-SELLING fantasy and sci-fi books get an HBO show too!!!! That is imperative #1.
Try to keep up–you have drool in a corner of your mouth!
DaveyQuote Reply
Davey,
I typically pass on pointing out the obvious, but you are a very stupid person.
FünkeQuote Reply
@Fünke
A creature of opportunity, eh?
But, why am I a very stupid person? I believe I have made good sense. Of course, I am referring to the TV masses.
DaveyQuote Reply
Davey, Ya really wanna know why are you are stupid? I'll tell ya. Every post you have posted is dumb. In addition, everything I said is true, and everything you say ish shtupid. And PS you are a troll.
HBO is not so great. I actually hate them since they stopped airing Lost Boys in the early 90's. And because I am a well-read person who doesn't care for reality tv, I don't care about this show, though I really liked the books.
I hope GoT gets dropped. The whole thing has become a circus. Look at who's playing Danny. Jesus, what a terrible mess this is. Sean Bean as Ned? Please—cliche maximus.
To answer WiC's ridiculous idiot-bait poll, I'll answer this: I am very interested in seeing McCarthy's work on GoT. Since the writing is mediocre, and the casting is uninspired, I believe only a lead director of his caliber can save the day.
MiddletonQuote Reply
To answer WiC's ridiculous idiot-bait poll, I'll answer this
@Middleton,
See! I told you that you'z an idjot.
SergioCQH was right all along. Smart, intelligent SergioCQH.
DaveyQuote Reply
Well, since the trolls have taken over the site, I do b'leive I'm going to masturbate elsewhere now. TTFN
FünkeQuote Reply
What the hell? Please tell me Davey, Funke and Middleton ( and maybe Sergio ) is the same person…
ChrisQuote Reply
@WIC
do you think there is a chance we could get dany added to the poll? some of us idiot bait HBO lovers who only want to boost GRRMs bank account would like to see her added.
thanks!
educatedponyQuote Reply
ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz.
..
zzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
……..ZzzzzzzZZZZz…
Whiney the Poo BarQuote Reply
Trolls actually registering to troll??
Thats about as low as it gets, i guess.
Banning time, Winter!
sjweningsQuote Reply
Nothing keeps a thread alive like a good Flame War. At least people here now have to actually sign their (made-up) names when they post.
Middleton posts something bizarre, Davey in effect defends his right to an opinion (backhanded and sarcastic as it was), but Middleton isn't really savvy enough to pick up on it and attacks "back."
It's almost as funny as the flame wars that kept A Blog of Ice and Fire (RIP) interesting.
I loved the leaked script. Other than "…fight a man for real" I found the dialogue pretty much free of any sort of trailer trash vernacular … though you could also argue the isolated north isn't exactly filled with learned folk (I blame Sansa's highbrow ways on her Tully mother).
And strangely, the script is pretty much faithful to the book.
(Who'da thunk?)
I am, however, going to start using the phrase "Cliché maximus," adding it to a vast lexicon that includes delightful little Français ear-tweakers such as "Ave la revolucion" and "Domo beaucoup."
About Yea HighQuote Reply
I'm pretty sure several of the trolls are one and the same person. If no one takes your bait, you have to feed yourself …
MarkoQuote Reply
Catelyn: I'm basically in the "didn't hate her, didn't like her" camp. Sympathized with her grief, and understood how she acted towards Jon (Mostly ignored him, then snapped under extreme stress and said something really nasty). Didn't mind her antagonizing Tyrion or anything, since she didn't know any better, and ASoIaF is full of that sort of thing. But her grief got old. It should have been mentioned once or twice, and otherwise implied by her actions. Jon doesn't complain that he's a bastard in every chapter, and Tyrion doesn't complain all the time about being a dwarf. Got to be an "I get it already!" situation with Catelyn.
I went with Tyrion in the poll, but I think I'm most interested in Tamzin, Maisie and Kit, roughly in that order. I didn't like Tamzin when she was first brought up as a possibility, and it took me awhile to come to terms with it when she was cast. I'm pretty sure my initial reactions will be proven wrong, but I'm impatient to find out for sure. Maisie because I love Arya, and am interested to see how well a real-life kid can pull her off, and Kit because I love Jon and like a lot of others think he could be a big star in the making.
@Mozart
Definitely agree Syrio should be Mediterranean. I picture him as this little, unassuming grey-haired, balding, Italian man who just blows your mind with swordplay. Someone you'd expect to be a watchmaker or cobbler or something. It will be glorious.
DemokritosQuote Reply
Where is anonymuff? The 4 Troll muskateers are missing their leader.
MozartQuote Reply
!!!!!!!SPOILERIFIC!!!!!!
Why do people hate cat?
1)mean to jon
2)antagonistic to tyrion
3)Every decision she makes is not just wrong, but DISASTROUS to the interests of the Starks.
4)She's about to hang brienne and podrick.
So, basically, she's not only incompetent, but antagonistic to more favorite characters in the book. Her one saving grace is how much she likes to hang freys….
!!!!!!!!END SPOILERIFICNESS!!!!!!!!!!
The Hound, Bronn, Shagga, Walder Frey, Craster, and, of course, Littlefinger. Those are the characters i want to see come to life.
Smoldering HoundQuote Reply
Also interested in how flamboyant Loras, Renly, and the Blackfish will get portrayed. ;)
Smoldering HoundQuote Reply
The HTML Nazi guy is missing too.
Back to the topic – I voted Dinklage as Tyrion, Heady as Cercei was a close second. Of course, there are other characters I'm looking for to seeing, but they were not on the poll – Dany, Ser Jorah …
AlexanderQuote Reply
Loras and Renly will be as flamboyant as they are in the books, which is pretty flamboyant.
The Blackfish? Flamboyant? No.
What a shame I missed the slight troll incurrsion.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
I think they may be flamboyant, but they won't be camp. It's a fine line, but they weren't out, so they still needed to be able to pass.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
I think Renly was pretty much 'all but comfirmed' as EVERYONE seemed to know what was going on.
Loras' costumes give him away, I guessed before it was even confirmed just cos of how he dressed (yes, I am aware that makes me sound like a judgmental stereotype fan).
But yeah, they can't be camp. Amusingly, i've always seen Petyr as the 'campest' character in the books, with his sarcasm and mock emotions – kinda bitchy queen like, but obviously not gay.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
The one thing that I have to remember from my time in a small Midwestern town is that family and friends can sometimes have a sort of anti-gaydar. Heck, plenty of folks still swear Liberace wasn't gay, so it's always possible they were camp as hell. Still, I'd rather there's more ambiguity, so Cersei's threat includes the implication that she knows a secret, rather than she's just willing to say what others won't.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
You see, for TV, if anything, I would expect it to be amped up rather than played down.
Especailly a HBO TV series; they do love their sex scenes.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Oh, showing them in actual sexual situations when they're in private wouldn't be a problem. I'm talking specifically about them safeguarding their secret by not camping it up or showing affection in public. The implications I've seen is that homosexuality is still taboo at court, and both of them are being married off.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
(Or, rather, being presented as actual husband material. Therefore they have at least a public "straight" persona.)
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Loras wasn't married off. He joined the King's Guard and led to a random thread on Westeros wondering if he and Jaime will ever get together….
Obviously they wont be openly gay at court, but those hints, if left in, will make it pretty obvious I think ('he spends more on his wardrobe' afterall).
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Sergio is not a troll, he's been posting over at westeros.org for years. Perhaps a bit gruff at times, but not a troll. I think he was in a way responding to Middleton's first very strange post as much as the latter one:
I have read almost all the books from the series "Song of Ice and Fire", from which this pilot is based. In case any of you didn't know, it's about a high fantasy realm that has incest and kill each other. And there are dragons and prostitutes. I know more about SOIAF than most people. Dare I say more than GRRM himself.
As if having read the books is in itself is a special thing around here. I think most of us have. Some may be fans of an actor or just HBO shows in general, and found there way here because of that, and that's cool, but the vast majority are fans of the books I'm sure. Anyway, calling himself an expert on the books when he hasn't yet finished the series is pretty odd, too, especially since several people here probably have read the books three, four or five times (::raises hand:: guilty).
I was kind of waiting to see what would happen if he posted again, had a feeling it would be a bit of a mess. He didn't disappoint.
BrudeQuote Reply
Thanks, Legion. Totally wrong impression on my part. For some reason I thought Loras wasn't in the Kingsguard yet when Sansa had her meeting with the Queen of Thorns. I thought that the QoT had laughed at the idea because Sansa was out of his league.
Thanks for pointing that out.
*SPOILERS*
Did he join the Kingsguard, join the Rainbow Guard, and then join the Kingsguard again? I think the second joining made me forget the first. Either that, or I'm just totally off my rocker. (A possibility.)
*SPOILERS*
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Not the to change topic, but Brude made me wonder: how old were all of you the first time you read AGoT? And how many times since have you read the entire series (thus far)?
I think I was about 13 when I first started reading AGoT. I only made it about halfway through before throwing in the towel. I picked it up again a year or so later and absolutely devoured it. I've read the first three books maybe three or four times but I've only read AFFC once. I'm currently rereading again and just started ASoS last night.
MandaQuote Reply
To be fair, I don't think he is at that point. I always assumed that the laughing there wasn't because he was out of her league but because granny knows grandson is gay.
That and because Sansa's reaction is so 'little princess' thinking she was going to get the handsome prince was genuinely funny.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
@Manda
I was introduced to them by a student last June, when I would have been 23. I have read the whole series 2 times since then, and am currently re-reading Game of Thrones so that i'm on top of things for discussions round here.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Brude, in some later post "Middleton" admits that he's a sock puppet for "Davy" and that the person running Middleton and Davy also has multiple "normal" accounts here as well.
The impression that I get is that it's someone who actually likes to discuss the books and blows off steam when things get to "boring" for them by having Davy and Middleton go at themselves and other posters.
They're both kind of broad caricatures of the types of posters we have here, so it may be this person's way of providing social commentary.
It can be sort of entertaining. The only issue for me would be that a first-time visitor who doesn't know what's going on might get turned off to the board, thinking that these posters actually reflect what normally goes on here.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Legion, I was just wrong, it seems:
The words came tumbling out of her. "Yes. I will. I would like that more than anything. To wed Ser Loras, to love him … "
"Loras? " Lady Olenna sounded annoyed. "Don't be foolish, child. Kingsguard never wed. Didn't they teach you anything in Winterfell? We were speaking of my grandson Willas. He is a bit old for you, to be sure, but a dear boy for all that. Not the least bit oafish, and heir to Highgarden besides."
Paul GudeQuote Reply
(Oh, and Brude, that should be some "earlier" post. There's an earlier thread where Davy/Middleton has a meltdown argument with themselves. <-Pronoun?)
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Seems we both were.
Still, Olenna likely knows about Loras anyway. She strikes me as someone that would make it her business to know. I hope she reappears at some point. She was an interesting side character.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
If Renly or Loras act flamboyant, beyond pretty clothes, that will totally ruin the realism for me. To me that would be just as bad as if Jalabhar Xho showed up in a do-rag and started rapping. Just because a certain group of people is associated with certain behaviors in the modern world doesn't mean those behaviors are inherent to them across cultures. So aside from trying to hide their homosexuality, they probably don't have stereotypically gay traits in the first place aside from the ones we already know about (Fondness for pretty clothes, flowers and rainbows)
As for when we first read the books, and how many times, I'm pretty new. I started reading them sometime early 2008, and finished them that summer. Haven't gotten around to reading them a second time through yet. I'm pretty lucky that I haven't been waiting too long for ADwD, huh? And yet I'm still foaming at the mouth for it.
DemokritosQuote Reply
Legion, you're right. Olenna would totally know, no matter how much of a secret it was.
Brude, this thread is the one I was talking about.
If Winter was really bothered by it, there's a way to look up IP addresses. My guess is that he'll let the poster have his/her fun as long as it doesn't impact any of the discussions when something is actually going on.
As far as when we first read the books, I read them for the first time very recently. A friend gave me A Game of Thrones this May, and just kept reading. I finished A Feast for Crows in July.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
I red it for the first time in 2005, then I red AFFC in 2006.
I have just started to re-read,this time in english.
Bran just awoke up form coma last evening.
The rabbitQuote Reply
I agree that foing camp with Renly and Loras is a terrible idea, but I for one would like to see the relationship. Not in front of the whole court, but little private moments. Moments that will make casual readers say "how the hell did i miss that?!"
As for when i started the books, it had to be around 2000, so I would have been about 14/15. I randomly picked up A Game of Thrones in a bookstore and the guy behind the counter said something like "You know, the third book's out now." I remember being hooked really fast and buying the next two the next time i went shopping. wow, that was 9 years ago…
JillianQuote Reply
@ Jillian
Precisely. I dunno how many of you have seen Alexander, the Oliver Stone biopic (it gets a pretty bad rap despite being really damn good), but if they have moments like those as between Alexander and Hephaestion then that'd work well enough.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
@Brude
"As if having read the books is in itself is a special thing around here. I think most of us have."
Oh I haven't actually read the books, if there was any confusion. I just picked up on enough tidbits by reading this blog for so long before posting. But it feels like I've read it by now.
On topic, when we see Renly and Loras, I think there is only one scene of them together. If I'm right, it really won't come up on screen. I doubt it would even occur to people that they could be gay. TBH, except for Cercei's flippant comment (that I can't even remember off the top of my head) and GRRM's own comment, I don't think there is any insinuation other than obsessive fandom and speculation, wrangling it out of GRRM eventually. I'd say they could be very subtle with the series, and drop a few more hints here or there. I'd say they'll both have hordes of female fans that will find it irksome to hear insinuations. As long as they don't ruin it by making it explicit. The sly looks would have to be painfully ambiguous.
MozartQuote Reply
@Mozart
If you read tha book, there is much more than just one comment from Cersei. There are lots of comments from other characters right from the introductions of the characters and their descriptions as well, plus the reaction from Loras to the death of Renly is pretty over the top.
The hordes of female fans that the characters may have will just have to deal with it. While there is no need to over exxagerate things between them, there is no need to try and cover it up either.
And to play the equality card, if the ladies have to sit through some actual lesbian encounters, I think that the guys watching can sit through the odd look/touch/comment between Renly and Loras…..
legion_quest666Quote Reply
I know hordes of female fans that would love to see blatant man on man, Renly-on-Loras action. For some people it might be a problem but i don't think them being gay will really hurt their female following. Hell look at Adam Lambert (from American Idol…and I'm sorry I'm using this as a comparrison, i feel dirty but it's the first thing that came to my head…)
JillianQuote Reply
Plus, there's the whole "praying" thing.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Praying thing?
I'm being dumb, please elaborate?
legion_quest666Quote Reply
(Oh, and Brude, that should be some "earlier" post. There's an earlier thread where Davy/Middleton has a meltdown argument with themselves. <-Pronoun?)
I've never understood the point of Alts. Seems like a waste of a LOT of energy.
BrudeQuote Reply
There's a point where the two of them spend all night "praying" together. Many assume they used this as a code.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
I'm more interesting in seeing how many of these characters will act together. I'm so used to seeing Harry Lloyd, for example, as the good, sweet character on Robin Hood. Tamzin Merchant has normally played whiny or innocent young girls. I'm interesting in seeing how they will together as the Tagaryen siblins. I'm also looking forward to scenes with Sean Bean and Lena Headey.
allmywondersQuote Reply
@legion
This isn't about equality its about entertainment. Please don't turn it into a PC issue like Drogo's ethicity. The speculation would just be more entertaining. Do it subtly, like a Victorian novel, so the audience can fill in the blanks. It would never be explicit anyway at that period, and I'm sure if they were more important characters then GRRM would have no problem writing a homosexual scene. He would probably have to tap into some deeply repressed urges that might have a lasting impact on his relationship with Parris.
"comments from other characters right from the introductions of the characters and their descriptions as well, plus the reaction from Loras to the death of Renly is pretty over the top."
I expect that this is partly your reading in, after the notion arose from other quarters than the dialogue and descriptions. Having said that, I'm sure GRRM put in a few hints that I haven't noticed. And as an example, GRRM says the rainbow guard has nothing to do with homosexuality. He gave a totally different explanation. It was on some other site and I'm too lazy to search for it. But thats just an example of people reading more in than was intended by GRRM. Of course, the rainbow guard could have been a subconscious input on his part.
But seriously, an eplicitly homosexual scene would be totally unnecessary. A few hints would be more effective because they really aren't important enough as characters.
MozartQuote Reply
And I've read the books twice fully through. I'm holding off finishing my third reading, cos I want to read it with or just before DwD. I was joking before.
MozartQuote Reply
@ Mozart
I never said for them to do it anything but subtly (see my post re. Alexander to Jillian), where as your post seemed to me to be saying 'let's see it covered up to the point it isnt at all obvious.' At no point did I say they should do a gay scene or have lots of gay love going on, I just assumed that for TV, they would likely amp it up because HBO love doing stuff like that because, crude as it is, sex sales.
You presume it isnt important, and yet it is, because Loras is a character that returns and likely isnt done with yet (new Hound anyone?) and Renly's character needs to be established as gay before he marries Marge so that people get that the allure of the crown is more important than anything.
Also, I read the books before coming online and reading and contributing to this site, so all the stuff in regards to Renly/Loras was only me picking up on what was written. When I then became an online GoT fan I was suprised how few people had picked up on it when I thought it was utterly obvious…
legion_quest666Quote Reply
I think one of the main issues with Catelyn, personally speaking, is her role in wrecking Robb's plans. She turns the Karstarks firmly against him with her actions. Plus the Tullys just seem to be a stupid familly, except for the Blackfish
MozartQuote Reply
While there is no need to over exxagerate things between them, there is no need to try and cover it up either.
And to play the equality card, if the ladies have to sit through some actual lesbian encounters, I think that the guys watching can sit through the odd look/touch/comment between Renly and Loras….."
I think we were arguing at cross purposes. I wasn't sayin' cover it up. I was sayin' draw it out and create a guessing game over two striking pretty boys (or one handsome and another pretty) without making it obvious. I just think it would work best that way because, after all, they are knights, typically masculine archetypes, and the idea would be more interesting than the visual images.
And they are important characters in the broader plot. But as far as the main POVs interactions with them are conscerned, how much screen time do we really expect them to get?
MozartQuote Reply
Depends.
People were worrying that they couldnt split the book into 12 episodes because there wasnt enough to do. Stands to reason that side characters who are important to the broader plot may then get extra time.
But yeah, it does seem we are arguing at cross puposes, as we seem to agree but misunderstood each other at some point enough that you thought I meant they should have full on gay imagery, and I thought you meant cut that out as much as possible so as not to annoy the fan girls.
Neither appear to be the case.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
There is reason and rationality in the world. HOORAH!
MozartQuote Reply
@Mozart
TBH, except for Cercei's flippant comment (that I can't even remember off the top of my head) and GRRM's own comment, I don't think there is any insinuation
Jaime to Loras:
"Now sheathe your bloody sword, or I'll take it from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found."
MormegilQuote Reply
That was the comment that had me pmsl.
I coudln't remember it earlier, thanks.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Weird, I had attributed that to Cersei for some reason, but yeah, that's it.
Prince Oberyn also refers to Loras as "Renly's little rose" in ASoS.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
See, everyone knows.
Game of Thrones? More like Game of Bone………rs!
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Heheheh, Jaime has some great lines.
MandaQuote Reply
As a side note, and relating to the thread at Westeros, Jaime and Loras – together? I say not a chance cos we all know he is going to fall for Brienne, but what is with that as a fantasy?
Not only does it make little sense, it seems to be reaching for anything to keep that rainbow flying…..
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Legion, I'm convinced that you can take any two characters and SOMEONE is hoping they'll hook up.
I'm looking at you, Illyrio/Osha fans!
(Someone somewhere is now wondering if their secret fanfic vault has been raided.)
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Wow, busy day and I missed it.
I think the best way to go with Loras and Renly is to hint at the relationship (glances, a lingering touch while helping Renly into his armor, etc) and leave it up to the viewer to decide just like in the books.
I was in my early 30s when I started the first book (about four years after it was published). My wife had to convince me to read it as I am not a big fan of high fantasy and the description in the book jacket of the first edition sounded pretty ridiculous to me. I seem to recall something about "a dragon queen" and at the time I just said to myself "Oh, George why couldn't you have just stuck with science fiction?" I still don't read high fantasy. Urban fantasy, yes. Historical fantasy, a little bit. But swords and wizards and such, no. Just another testament to how good this series and GRRM are.
gofalconsQuote Reply
Alright Paul, how far do you want to take that idea? Littlefinger and Varys? Hodor and Melisandre? Sansa and Arya?
lol
gofalconsQuote Reply
Gofalcons, I submit that all of these are possible.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Biter/Reek fans are probably the worst, of course.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
It probably starts with any characters who have actual met each other and then radiates outward to encompass non-cannon trips and magic portals, etc.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a dark corner of the net where someone's scribing their third Other/Weirwood story even as we speak.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Great, now I have to go to bed with visions of Biter and Reek doing the nasty running through my head. :)
gofalconsQuote Reply
NCW
for the deliciousness.
JuliaQuote Reply
GRRM says that fan-fics are not allowed, so i have to admit to never seeing any GoT slash or any other fics.
Biter/Rorge is likely the worse…..but just incase I raise you Pyg/Timeon and the aptly named Shagwell 3some slash fanfics.
Sleep well kiddies ;)
legion_quest666Quote Reply
*shudder Fan pairings can get scary…
@legion
As for Loras/Jaime the only reason I can see people jumping onto this theory (other than keeping the Rainbow flying) is that Jaime only seemed interested in Cersei, other than his confusion about his feelings for Brienne.
JillianQuote Reply
You know, Legion, I wouldn't have thought that GRRM's moratorium would be enough to stop the slash-fic crowd from jumping on this, but maybe it *would* be enough to stop them from making public postings/archives.
Fingers crossed that it continues once the series takes off. Just because I think people are capable of it doesn't mean I want to see it.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Eh, people like what people like. Who cares?
I'm going to write my Old Nan / Rickon fanfic, and no one can stop me!
"Let me tell you a tale of Old Teaty…"
About Yea HighQuote Reply
I'm still having trouble getting my Stranger/Butterbumps story going.
"Margaery, child, summon Butterbumps, let us see if we can't make Lady Sansa smile…"
Paul GudeQuote Reply
@Mormegil
Oh yeah, been a while since I read AFfC so I forgot that one.
MozartQuote Reply
I see your stranger/butterbumps and raise you strong belwas/drogon.
Smoldering HoundQuote Reply
Time to play the Trump card.
Gregor/Myrcella.
MozartQuote Reply
easily the most eff-ed up thread thus far…
MandaQuote Reply
FIRST!
…ryan
p.s. *perverted crickets*
invertebraeQuote Reply
Pah Mozart.
Call that a trump?
[spoilorz]
I see it and raise you Qyburn's Zombie Gregor with…….Tommen and Ned's dead head.
[/spoilorz]
Now that is a trump card!
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Here is one that gets more plausible the more you think about it. (Given the book would have had to veer in a totally different direction.)
[older] Joff/Cercei
Think Roman emperors.
MozartQuote Reply
How about MMD/Hot Pie sweet love story?
I hate waiting, I hope we get some news soon.
The rabbitQuote Reply
Who is MMD?
MozartQuote Reply
Mirri Maaz Duur or something.
The rabbitQuote Reply
Joff/Cersei would likely have happened wouldn't it.
Mum/Son is some how worse than twins.
Roman emperor's didn't do that much at all though
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Oneway or another it is sick!
The rabbitQuote Reply
Roman Emperors were sick a'right.
MozartQuote Reply
Well, Caligula liked having little boys suck his toes in the bath, Nero went both ways and had a favourite eunuch and the third century emperor Elagabulus was a trannie.
So yeah, some of them did some odd stuff.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
What was the Greek Myth that had a King bannish his son, who subsequently returned to kill his Dad and rape his mother, or something like that.
Maybe Cercei's tenuous control wanes when Joff starts killing off his wives, the whispers of Joff's parentage have a subconscious affect on his sexual inclinations and Joff desperately wants to live up to his Dad.
Maybe I'm over thinking this.
MozartQuote Reply
Oedipus.
Oedipus was a Theban prince who was spirited away after his dad was given an oracle stating his first born son would kill him. He was meant to be killed, but the guardsmen couldnt do it, so just left him out to be exposed. But a friendly shepard found him and brought him up.
When Oedipus was older, he ended up killing his father, fulfilling that prophecy. He then married his mother and had children before, eventually, it was all revealed and he blinded himself rather than see the evil world.
You then get discussion on how much of the story is about self fulfilling prophecy, as Oedipus was told about the oracle of killing his father, and was told another oracle about marrying his mother and, despite claiming he would never do this, he goes around killing random strangers on the road (granted he believed his real dad was shepard and so didnt think he was actually killing his dad) and marrying women old enough to be his mother (this one is just dumb – but he believed by not killing his 'dad' he had changed his destiny, which was why he went ahead and did it).
Great story, I taught it last school year
legion_quest666Quote Reply
It was Peter Dinklage for WIC's reasons, but lately I've been looking forward to Lena Headey. As a fan of The Sarah Connor Chronicles, I've been having a tough time imagining her as Cersei.
mosquito wenziQuote Reply
The Greeks had… fertile imaginations.
MozartQuote Reply
I think that's the reason of the appeal of ASoIaF for me. The "badness" is EPIC badness, on a scale with the Greek tragedies. GRRM doesn't mess around when it comes to making something just plain wrong.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
My favourite Greek tragic play is the story of Jason and Medea.
Most people of heard of the story of Jason and the Golden Fleece; where this hero Jason is sent on a quest to get the golden fleece so he can give it to his uncle who will then allow Jason to be king of the country that he killed Jason's dad to usurp.
Jason went to a place called Colchis, on the modern east coast of the Black Sea. Here he met and seduced the princess, Medea.
Medea helped him escape, with the fleece, by chopping up her own brother to perform a magical ceremony to help them through the clashing rocks.
He takes her home where she tricks Jason's uncle into dying by getting his daughters to bathe him in poison that she had made. This gets her and Jason exiled from Jason's kingdom.
Jason and her then go to Corinth, where they have some kids. Two boys. But Jason is approached by the king of Corinth, Creon, who wants Jason to marry his daughter (a princess whose name is Glauce, which means 'sweetness'). Jason decides that seen as Medea isnt Greek and classed as a barbarian, he can just dump her and get married. Which is what he does.
King Creon then decrees that Medea is exilled and that she has to leave. Jason comes to her and explains it's all her own fault and that if she wasn't such a barbarian and such an emotional woman, he could have sorted it all out so that she'd be looked after and the kids would have security.
Medea reveals to the chorus and the audience that she is planning to do something awful, the chorus, who have supported her until now in believing that Jason was bad suddenly become very scared. She reveals her plan.
She sends her children with a magic gown to make amends with the King and Princess, however the gown is poisoned. When Glauce puts it on, she melts. When her dad sees this, he runs and tries to hug her and sticks to her and rips how flesh off and dies as well.
The children run home, and Medea kills them both with a sword.
Jason rushes to Medea's house to execute her, but she flies above the house in a chariot drawn by dragons that was sent to her by her grandfather, who turns out to be the god of the sun, Helios. She teases Jason, berates him for being weak, refuses to let him see his now dead children and flies off after telling him when and how he'll die.
The play of it by Euripides failed utterly. We don't know why. It may have been poorly acted or just up against stiff competition, but many believe it was because the woman got one over on the man and never got her comeupance; essentially she won and the audience full of men crapped all over it!
I don't know why I bothered typing all that, but still, this has been your Classics lesson with Dr Legion.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
It was the INCAN rulers who married their moms…something to do with the property rights descending through the women or some such….
Smoldering HoundQuote Reply
And the Egyptians did it, especially brother/sister.
And the Ancient Mesopotamians did it as well.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
For those of you who don't visit the older threads Alex (Entomologist) posted an interesting note to the Our Poacher thread.
Conan Stevens updated his New TV Series Audition blog post.
Highlights:
1) It looks like he was doing exactly what we thought: Auditioning for Drogo with the hopes that they'd see him and like him for Gregor.
2) According to his post, they've cast someone else as Drogo.
Alex takes #2 to mean that Bran remains to be cast. Legion (and I) think it's possible that Bran was still cast first, and that GRRM just hasn't announced the fact that the last major character has been cast yet.
This could be possible, as Conan Stevens wouldn't have to wait for all the ducks to be in a row before announcing that they cast someone other than him, whereas GRRM would be *sure* the contract was signed before announcing anything. There's no way to tell, as the date Conan's article was updated is unknown, just the date it was originally posted.
We know that One Down One to Go was posted on the 25th of September, and that the clues for the minor characters started on that day. Was GRRM just saving up clues for Drogo or was Bran cast and therefore not good clue-fodder?
Again, I suppose it won't matter until there's a major announcement.
One thing to note. In Conan's article, he says:
they chose another guy who has the look that they were originally after (I did not look anything like the character description except for being over six feet and muscular)
This leads me to believe they're going with a Drogo closer to the original description on the sides.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Yeah, Paul I have noticed it to.
What was the original description of Drogo in the casting sides?
Some asiatic type as far as I remember.
Bran is for sure unknown child actor, but so is Maisie Williams and we got the "boney pop singer" mistery.
My guess is there is probably another reason why GRMM waits.
And now I am not sure at who was cast, at all.
It is three weeks now before the start of the filming, and we still waiting for some roles.
Is it normal? (that is the question for the experts of film industry)
And Legion, I like very much your greek s myth, I knew a lot of it, but I saddly forgot.
The rabbitQuote Reply
Remember, though, it may be that we're no longer waiting for any major roles to be cast, just waiting for an announcement that the final role has been cast.
GRRM seemed to regret making clues for the children, if I remember correctly, which is the main reason why I took the lack of clues on the 25th as an indication that it was Bran who had been cast. Again, pure speculation on my part, and maybe just a reluctance to let go of my pet theory.
I still wish I knew when the blog was updated.
Again, it's largely moot. I don't anticipate getting any clues for Bran, so it won't really matter until he's announced.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
We may get nothing for Drogo either.
It took them ages to find him, so it may be that they have gone with an unknown?
They seem to be leaving it a long time for casting some of these guys.
Illyrio and Luwin are still mainish characters we've heard nothing about. No to mention Waymar from the prologue and the Stark guys, Jory and whoever it is and the old Septa as well.
Granted they could all be no ones or too small for clues.
I hate when we get loads of clues then nothing for a few days. Drives me mad!
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Yes, I agree with you on the most.
In fact, I am not sure that will be a final public announcement, unless some rather big name is cast for Drogo.
And I am still hoping for some "thespian" as Luwin.
I do not know why, but I have a strong feeling that they would bring in some experienced well known actor for the role.
The rabbitQuote Reply
@Legion
I think they are waitnig the contract to be signed for Waymar. (It was on Not a blog).
I share your opinion on Drogo, I suspect it will be unknown.
The rabbitQuote Reply
Rabbit, I think if not well known, Luwin will be someone with a rich theatre background at least.
Luwin is going to be an important supporting role. It'll be his job to make others look good basically. I don't know if they'll be able to get a major name for him, but it will be optimal to cast a very skilled actors that the others can play off of effectively.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Edited my last post because I said, "he," responding to Rabbit's first post about Luwin. Because it came after his second post, it looked like I was talking about Drogo instead.
I really hope they go with someone's suggestion (I forget who) to take advantage of the fact that Drogo's not supposed to speak English anyway to cast someone who is extremely well known in some other country but not very famous in the U.S. or UK.
Having a unique international draw wouldn't hurt the series one bit.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
It would make sense, for the sake of the young boy playing Bran, that with most of his scenes being with Luwin before the Reeds show up, that they would cast someone experienced to help sure up the kid.
So yeah, Luwin could be a name, nothing major, but at least recognisable.
I'd then equally cast someone experienced as either Jojen or Meera, or both, for the same reason.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
In my head "experienced" means actor with rich theatre backround. lol
I do not expect Peter O Toole anyway, of someone of his range..
(Oh, God I know he would make a perfect Walder Frey…but that are just my dreams)
The rabbitQuote Reply
You know, now that Kings is cancelled, Luwin would give Ian McShane a chance to play an entirely different sort of character. He's 67.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Dunno if he'd take a bit part after esentially being the lead or co-lead in other shows.
On saying that, I love Ian McShane and think he could play Sansa and I'd still be happy to see him cast just because it meant he was going to be in it!
Not sure he has a kind enough face for Luwin though….
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Well, it is an interesting idea!
and I like it.
I am not an authority on acting world, my knowledge is very poor, and I have that problem that I usually do not remeber the names…
I must always chech the actor on IMDB..and yes, Ians face looks familiar…
My secret wish for Luwin is David Jason.
The rabbitQuote Reply
Of course, the geek in me wants Tom Baker.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Oh yeah, it is easy to forget about the Reeds, but they are prominent characters in their own rights, so I'd definitely think Meera would be recognisable, at least. She is around 17, right? Jojen is an interesting brooding character and that role will be more difficult I suspect, so he'll need someone capable.
MozartQuote Reply
David Jason would be great. He could play any maester except Pycelle, and he has little or no ego, so he would mind going for a more minor role to be in a great production.
MozartQuote Reply
Took some time looking at David Jason, and he would totally work.
I had thought of an Ian Holm type in the past. Both he and David Jason are 5'6". There's more to it than height, of course, but still a nice coincidence.
Again, the scene between Luwin and Theon are some of my favorites. It helps, in my opinion, if there's no way Luwin could ever hope to compete with Theon physically, something that would be tough to do with McShane.
Still, I'd love to see him participate somehow.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Ian Holm needs to be saved for a role as Aemon.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
True. I never suggested Ian Holm for Luwin because I didn't think it would be a big enough role for him. Aemon could be, though.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
I just got back from seeing Colm Feore in Cyrano de Bergerac and it was amazing. I loved him before but this performance blew me away. I think he could play any part they handed to him.
JillianQuote Reply
One of the things we haven't mentioned in a while that I'm sure we're all looking forward to seeing:
The first Game of Thrones trailer.
A while ago, one of the posters on the Westeros boards mapped out what he envisioned as being the perfect teaser ad for the show, and I thought it was a pretty good idea. I can't for the life of me find it any more, however. Blast it.
But I keep wondering: what will they reveal? And more importantly, what will they keep hidden for the actual show?
If they include "The things I do for love" or Bran falling in the teaser, I'll be extremely disappointed. Hopefully they keep an eye on all aspects of marketing; too many movies and shows these days are spoiled by the (apropos) spoilers.
I'm still of a mind to ship Ryan over to Ireland and have him shove his way in, just to make sure some of this shit is done right (his Sopranos ad was frakking awesome).
About Yea HighQuote Reply
Whilst David Jason is a good actor, he hammed things up terribly in the Terry Pratchett adaptations. He was a prime mover in getting the Discworld books on screen, which I suppose we need to be thankful for, but he also didn't get the fact that Discworld isn't a funny and zany and crazy place. It's a serious place where crazy and funny stuff happens sometimes.
His hammy turn in those films really makes me dislike the idea of him for AGoT, which is odd because he's got the acting chops for it, if he takes it seriously.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Hey.
NCW was interviewed in a Danish Gossip magazine:
http://www.seoghoer.dk/Nyheder/FilmOgTv/nikolaj%20coster-waldau%20maerkelig%20naese.aspx
Loose translation from Danish:
SEOGHØR.DK The 39 year old danish actor Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is a sought after in the US. Both in movies, but also now in television, crossing the "pond" to participate in a new show.
But for the role which he is cast, it is not everybody who thinks that he fits the role, he announces today in "Ekstra Bladet".
He is in connection with his new danish movie "at the worlds end" asked whether or not he wants plastic surgery to look younger…
-No, he says, it is not something i whish for
- But it is funny that you ask, I am going to America in a short while to shoot the pilot of a television show, and in connection with that, i went to a blog which is about the novels the show is based upon.There i could follow who had been cast in other roles, and what people thought. They were happy enough i got the part – except for my nose. There were quite af few that thought it didn't match their image of the role.
"that nose – is just to weird".
Sorry fast translation…
ArchdaimonQuote Reply
Continuing the post above:
-Funny, I never thought about that before, says NCW, I would never change myself.
ArchdaimonQuote Reply
Just like the discussion about Keith Allen earlier, the main fault when an actor comes across as hammy when that isn't the intention lies with the director. This is mostly the case with TV and film, I would say. On stage (in my experience anyway) a director might occasionally get an actor who decides to run away with the show during the run. There's not a lot the director can do at that point, but the stage manager can usually pound some sense into them. Ryan actually can speak more to this than me, but from what I've observed on the sets I've been on, the director of a film will ask, threaten, and cajole actors to try to coax different readings from them to give the editor a couple of things to work off of.
What I'm saying, and I'm sure this is what you meant by the last bit anyway, is that I don't think David Jason hamming it up would be a problem if he's working with Thomas McCarthy.
As far as the trailer and promos go, I am 100% for Ryan doing them. I loved his Sopranos ads, and he clearly gets all of the hurdles that will need to be covered with turning in something decent for the fans and also for coaxing in new blood.
Jillian, not to leave you out: Colm Feore is great, and I'd love to see him in this. I wrote to his people letting them know about the fact that we talk about him here often. No response, but at least they're aware.
On a personal note, I have to say that these lulls are major downers. It's like we're in a huge empty hall, with our voices echoing endlessly.
Still, I can't help but feel excited when I think about things like the trailer, as AYH mentioned. I think about how solid of a run this could be, how this could be the project that redefines what fantasy on screen could be. Not that I'm hoping it spawns imitation, just the opposite. So that it makes production companies afraid to put out sub-standard crap because fantasy fans are no longer so starved that they'll swallow whatever lame shit with a sword comes down the pike.
I can't wait.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Thanks for posting that, Archdaimon.
So, there's a kick in the pants to the people who said the actors wouldn't read about what people were saying about their appearances. Of course, I was thinking more of the younger actors rather than NCW. Still, he seems to be taking it in stride.
And, hey, NCW, if this is the blog you were looking at, some of us think your nose is just fine.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
HIlarious about NCW acknowledging the nose-haters. Gotta love it.
To Guderati's point about hammy acting, there are obviously two issues at hand…
The first is the actor and their being cast into a role (which is usually a director's job, in conjunction with show producers and networks exec's can at times have a say). Basically, the team know what they're getting before the actor even steps in front of the camera, that is what the casting process is all about.
The second, obviously, is the shoot itself, and that lies with the director mostly. It starts with getting a "range" of performances, especially when your actor might have over-the-top tendencies. After that, if the director simply can't get the performance he/she wants for their film, they have a tough decision to make: do they keep at it and risk not making their shoot days, or do they find somebody else.
The good news for everbody on a film production, is that at the end of the day, almost all of the fault lies with the director. You can see why so many directors have an asshole complex. That's a lot of stress and power for one person to behold. If the project succeeds, there is fame and glory, if it fails, it was all your fault all along and everyone is off scott-free.
*Sigh*
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Everyone's made so much valid points …. For me it's everyone …. from Ned to Cersei, Cat to Arya, Jon to Drogo, Dany to Robert … just seeing everyone bringing these characters to life is what keeps me joining at night … LOL …. but if I'm going to get pinned down to one then it's Dinklage as Tyrion, when i sat downed and opened a GoT for the 1st time and read Tyrion's POV .. it was Dinklage all the way for me …. so seeing his interpretation of Tyrion would be awesome for me
LadyNYC74Quote Reply
I really hope Tamzin Merchant didn't read this blog during her casting announcement, nose-haters were angels compared to Tamzin bashers.
ebleyesQuote Reply
Interesting that NCW has been reading this blog. I wonder if any of the other actors are too?
SilverstarQuote Reply
Funny indeed that NCW has been following here :). Great to know he is humorous enough about it.
As of the question I voted Tyrion (well he is my favorite character after all and I really hope his humor goes well…damn I want that inn scene with Catelynn and the eyrie and and … :) )
But I'm also very curious of Cersei/Jaime parts.
SA_AvengerQuote Reply
Cool that NCW dropped by :)
Trailers could be approached in different ways, and I actually expect a range of them. They did a True Blood Season Two teaser from scratch, shooting a music-video type of reel with the cast. I agree with you guys, when they use actual clips from the season, they shouldn't show too much. The more they restrict themselves the better, actually – the important thing is to present the characters and the tone, I need nothing else.
MarkoQuote Reply
@NCW
Thanks for having a sense of humour about it. Don't get plastic surgery, the role requires a face that has seen some action anyway.
@TM
We are all looking forward to seeing you as Dany. The trolls were loader than they were numerous. Most of us were chuffed at your casting and after seeing your previous roles are even more excited.
@SB
If you are anything like my Dad you won't be able to use the internet.
@MW & ST
There are inappropriate comments on here so log off now.
@RM
The Book Club was great.
@AA
Your privileged existence has cultivated your ego, which is exactly how I imagine Theon. Don't act, just be.
MozartQuote Reply
I'm looking forward to seeing all of them act but I went with Sean Bean. Partly because he's perfect for the role of Ned and partly because he is one of my favourite actors. Oh and he's sexy too ;)
Arya and Tyrion come joint second. I love both of these characters and can't wait to see them on TV.
TataniaRosaQuote Reply