Filming resumes today on the Game of Thrones pilot. It seems likely, based on all the other scenes that have been shot already that they would be moving into the Paint Hall for these last few days of filming in Northern Ireland. Then it is on to Morocco. It sounds like Thursday will be the first day of filming in Morocco. Or at least, that is when GRRM plans to arrive.
As for the filming at Castle Ward, WiC reader kinnygraham was at the location yesterday and had this to report:
Yesterday (Sunday) I was able to go and visit Castle Ward (which is normally open to the public on most occasions anyway) and got very close to the set they had been using there and take some pictures (including one of the Stark symbol engraved in a wall mentioned as having taken GRRM’s interest on his visit).
There was nobody around at all, other than other members of the public and there even were some ‘props’ lying around (stuff like carts, one of which had been prepped for the addition of digital effects – i.e. canvassed in green material with red motion capture ‘dots’).
I’m sure it was a different story when the crew were around but like I say I was able to do this purely by exercising my ‘rights’ as a member of the public.
It sounds like the set was still fully up, which might meaning they are filming there again today. Or it could just mean that the take down crew hadn’t started yet. I was confused about what the cart with the green canvas and red dots was until mogons pointed out in the last thread that it was likely going to be digitally enhanced in post and become Cersei’s wheelhouse! So that seems to confirm our speculation that they were filming the King’s arrival at Castle Ward.
If we get any more reports, I’ll be sure to post them here.
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139 Comments
first?
sansa-stoneQuote Reply
Second!
lexQuote Reply
Third!
dholdsQuote Reply
Still waiting to see some pics of Castle Ward. Where's kinny at?
SUP!?
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Would also love to see the pics..but must add, since it has not been said before:
"My name is Arya Stark
You killed my father.
Don´t bother with preparations"
The poster formerly known as
Thoros of Myr
prometevsbergQuote Reply
One suggestion: changing the (sub)title of the post to 'Last days of filming in Northern Ireland', or similar. Makes it more diverse and also informative :) only if you like it.
MarkoQuote Reply
Man, it's going to be a long, quiet 4+ months if they end up not making a decision until March. This has all been really exciting though, and to think there may be another round of this( to an even larger extent ) if the show gets picked up…
ChrisQuote Reply
I hope to see those fotos somewhere, too.
MarkoQuote Reply
I wonder why Cersei's cart would need to be CGI'd, but it has to be that. Nothing else could be so elaborate. I would have assumed that they would just build a very elaborate working prop cart.
The fact that they are CGIing even a prop/set item like that is interesting and telling, once again along with who's been hired for the FX, of how much CGI we may be getting on this show. Is is now easier/cheaper to just CGI a fancy cart than actually build one?
BrudeQuote Reply
I think the Cerseis cart must be CGI d , not because I would prefere it, but just because it looks rather complicate thing in book.
As we see, we have all sort of weird stuff in our heads, form Catherine the Great cart to some wooden tanks on wheels.
The rabbitQuote Reply
I pictured the cart as like an oversized
gypsy wagon.
Everything is bigger in Westeros!
wabawangaQuote Reply
I'm adding the wheelcart to the list of things that I'm excited to see. Before today I never gave it much thought at all.
JillianQuote Reply
Well if the CGI work is on par with what was in John Adams, then I don't think we have anything to worry about as far as believability is concerned.
And you would think that at some point recently, CGI would have become cheaper than actual prop building in a lot of cases.
dholdsQuote Reply
@wabawanga
also what i had pictured, but of course more elaborate and maybe a little taller
nikkiQuote Reply
The rather lovely coronation coach of Catherine of Russia is a great coach, but the WheelHouse is described as having a place for Cersei to sleep and everything, which is why I saw it more as a mobile tower than a coach or wagon.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
The wagon carring the emperor's son and daughter at the beginning of Gladiator is what I imagined
HouseUmberQuote Reply
I always saw it as a more ornate version of this.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Or this.
Or this.
And then inside, something like this.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
The issue I had with the gypsy wagon look is that that would be pretty cramped and one level. I can't see Cersei travelling in anything that isn't stupidly over the top.
Plus, those wagons are built specifically for their travellability – the shape and weight makes wheel breakage harder, while the GoT Wheel House is always breaking down.
Thus the more tower like and slightly fantastical view in my head that allows for the breaking wheels because it's something you'd look at and think 'that's going to break,' rather than a cart straight out of history that you wouldn't expect to break so much.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
The Wheel House description from GoT:
Robert's queen, Cersei Lannister, entered on foot with her younger children. The wheelhouse in which they had ridden, a huge double-decked carriage of oiled oak and gilded metal pulled by forty heavy draft horses, was too tall and too wide to pass through the castle gate.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Legion, I'm getting what you're saying.
I can imagine Littlefinger patiently looking over the plans to an actual small two-story house on wheels and the wainwright nervously explaining that while they could build it and it would work, there'd be no way it could make it all the way to Winterfell without breaking down.
Then there's the slightest hint of a smile when its construction is commissioned.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Pretty much Paul. At no point in my head was it ever a cart or wagon, it was always essentially a storied building on wheels.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
"pulled by forty heavy draft horses"
i'll forgive them if they don't follow the text religiously on this one. a carriage requiring forty draft horses pushes the boundary between fantastic and just plain absurd.
izakmoQuote Reply
See, I had forgotten that description. Even my response about the house was written before I read Legion's quote.
With forty heavy draft horses, we're talking siege engine for sure.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Now that's a great example of something I wouldn't mind cutting from the TV show. If they said "No crazy wheelhouse" I wouldn't mind a bit. If they put it in and make it cool, then great.
JohnQuote Reply
Ha! I just realized that I've seen Jason Momoa in person!
I used to work in a popular public market, here in Vancouver, where I've seen many celebrities (the highlight was when I met and spoke with Sir Ian Mckellen while he was buying vegetables!). But I also remember seeing Lisa Bonnet shopping several times, with her huge, tall boyfriend who had long dreadlocks. They also had their small child with them.
Having just read that Momoa is dating Lisa Bonnet, I finally realized that he was the guy I saw!
lexQuote Reply
Just because it isn't something you see every day doesnt mean they shouldnt do.
If you want to start cutting unrealistic things from the script, how about we start with flying, fire breathing lizards and 800feet high walls of ice? ;)
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Yeah, but still … more realism in everyday things makes it even more interesting. I vote for that.
MarkoQuote Reply
@Lex – was that at Granville Island?
dholdsQuote Reply
I certainly wouldn't mind if only 10 horses pulled the wheelhouse. I completely forgot about that description! although in my head it was always kind of absurd looking–just not as big as described I guess.
nikkiQuote Reply
Well I’ve sent the pics to admin. It’s his call on whether to post them or not as he has ‘maintaining friendly relations with HBO’ to consider.
I would add that the cart itself is pretty small – I’m guessing that you would get maybe 4 people inside it comfortably.
One other consideration is that this might be a ‘leftover’ from ‘Your Highness’ which I believe must have also filmed at the same location. It’s probably unlikely give the timing – as I understand that the movie wrapped a couple of weeks back – but the reason that I mention this at all is that I also happened upon what appears to be the staging area for the actors/extras to get changed in (this was in the car park I would normally park in when visiting Castle Ward). For some reason, somebody has taped an excerpt from the ‘YH’ movie script on to one of the windows on this temp structure. (You can imagine I got pretty interested when I thought it was from AGoT, but then I read stuff about minotaurs and characters called Thaddeus and what have you. Ah well).
Assuming I am correct and ‘Your Highness’ also filmed here, then I’m wondering if the HBO production is sensibly cutting costs by utilising some of the legwork/assets put in by the movie…..
kinnygrahamQuote Reply
@dholds/lex,
Funny – I never see any of these Hollywood types EXCEPT when I'm At Granville Island.
couchpotatoheadQuote Reply
@ dholds: Yes! I worked there for several years, and that's where I saw several celebrities.
It's all coming back to me now; Jason Momoa was wearing glasses, like in some of the pics I've seen of him on the internet.
lexQuote Reply
regarding the wheelhouse… just turn that coronation coach into a sleeper and call it a day. I'd rather the coach exude egance and opulence to the point of excess than to look like a siege tower on wheels. the former, to my mind, better defines the Cersei I have since come to know.
And yes, the vehicle from whence one of our main characters first arrives in and emerges from is quite important. If the white knight first enters in a clown car, or if Cinderella is hurried away in a Ford Pinto, well that does a lot to define their character, correct?
Not a trivial consideration by any means.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
@lex/couchpotatohead – I spend a fair amount of time there but I have yet to see anyone famous … guess I'll just have to stop and squeeze the melons a bit longer in future!
And nice to see that we've got a Vancouver contingent here on WiC!
dholdsQuote Reply
Thanks to British film 'The Tormented' I may have found a potential Samwell candidate in bullied zombie/ghost thing Calvin Dean.
He's 23/4, on the large side and seems to be able to act.
I would put in links and stuff, but I'm lazy and tired. Sorry :P
legion_quest666Quote Reply
I honestly think that GRRM's description of Cersei's wheelhouse is important, Ryan for just that reason.
*SPOILERS*
Her ambition outpaces good judgment and feasibility, as we see in AFfC when those who have tempered her decisions are removed. Sacrificing practicality and functionality for her own comfort is entirely within her character.
*SPOILERS*
Unless you thing the idea of the need for forty horses and its inability to get through the main gate was an error?
Paul GudeQuote Reply
"Error" was wrong choice of words. Something he regrets doing? I'm not sure how to say it right.
For Legion: Calvin Dean.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Calvin Dean Photo.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
I think people are getting way to carried away with the idea of a 'siege tower.'
I used the analogy to show the scale and size that I was imagining, I didn't actually mean for Cersei to be 'driving' around in an actual Siege Tower.
By the way, here are some Calvin Dean on the right and as a zombie thing
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Re: the wheelhouse
This is a fantasy setting, right? I'm all for that kind of thing being over-the-top. It's what's going to really differentiate AGOT from shows like Rome and The Tudors which have had to ground themselves in historical reality to a large extent.
As long as it's not too insane (which I'm sure it won't be) then I say they should let loose and flex their creative muscles. I want this show to be BIG, BOLD and BADASS, dammit!
dholdsQuote Reply
… although I'm not so sure that a wheelhouse can be "badass" but you get what I mean.
dholdsQuote Reply
Ugh, getting caught between the book and the script. The wheelhouse doesn't get stuck in the script.
Probably not an issue, then.
Apologies, Ryan.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
So, thoughts on Calvin Dean?
legion_quest666Quote Reply
@ legion
i think he looks the part, or at least his face is chubby enough that he won't look ridiculous in a padded suit. ideally, sam should look 300+ lbs.
izakmoQuote Reply
If he isn't 300lbs, he must be pretty close……….? I'm not great with weights.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Count me as one who won't be disappointed if Cersei doesn't arrive to Winterfell in a house on wheels. Won't be disappointed if she does of course, but that would be low on my "spend money on CGI" list.
ChrisQuote Reply
what about James Corden as a potential Sam? he was in History Boys. He's a bit old for the part (apx. 30), but he's got a baby face.
http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/image-library/port/376/j/james-corden-awi.jpg
izakmoQuote Reply
His age rules him out imo, plus his raised profile and the comedy that he is now associated with (wasn't always but is now) makes him unlikely.
5 years ago, would have picked him without a doubt, but not now.
It'd be like casting Matt Lucas as Varys – for me, while meeting the looks, I wouldnt be able to see past the comedy which would ruin the illusion for me.
That isnt to say they couldnt do it. Just that I wouldnt want them to.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
@Chris – good point. The wheelhouse isn't something they should blow the budget on. Save that for the dragons.
dholdsQuote Reply
The dragons are in one scene right at the end, the Wheelhouse is featured for several scenes in multiple episodes.
I'd rather they did something like that right rather than half arse it so they could blow extra money on winged lizards in one scene……
legion_quest666Quote Reply
There's a big difference between "half arse" and "different from the book".
Sure, a ridiculous wheelhouse fit's Cersei's character, but so what? Cersei gets her character established all over the place. That doesn't take CGI budget to pull off. A big ornate wheelhouse that isn't 2 stories won't be a big deal.
The dragons are a core part of the series. If the dragons suck, that will make a huge difference.
Seriously, some things are going to change between the book and the movie. Some things are okay to change and some aren't. Changing the wheelhouse: fine. Changing Bronn's ethnicity: fine. There are lots of things that aren't fine, but those two are in my book.
JohnQuote Reply
@KinnyGraham
can you describe the Stark engraving? In some close to detail?
:D!
ScottQuote Reply
I have no problems with changing things from the book, but I think with the WheelHouse it really lets you know that Cersei is a stuck up and oppulant right from the start.
I consider it to be important to get character in a book that is very devoid of real views from Cersei, who is one of my favourite characters.
As for you suggestion of Bronn changing ethnicities, I listed him as one of the characters that could quite easily have that happen and it would have zero impact on anything.
When those dragons appear in the last minutes of the series, if it happens (another reason why I'd spend on the WH, you might not ever get to dragons so you may as well), they do have to look good because thats a moment when the average viewer may groan and not watch the second series because it becomes too fantastical.
Little things like the WheelHouse, like the Wall, like the Wights do, I realise now, have to be shown as fantastical otherwise the Dragons will really throw people right at the end and potentially get the series an average press tongue lashing just as it bows out.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
I wonder how they will do the dragons. A combination of cgi and/or live action mechanical puppetry?
Who or what company was doing the cgi for the show.
I'm very excited to see the interpretation of the dragons.
ScottQuote Reply
I'd probably use real lizards and cgi wings on. They are going to be so small at first dont forget.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
I'll say it again. The pilot budget is just that. They have no reason to save the money from the pilot to use on a series that hasn't been picked up yet.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
And what lizards would you cgi wings on…
What was the description of the dragons at hatching…
Long necks and tails, large wings. Their torso smaller then the rest and a set of hind legs…Any horns? I don't remember the description of the head…
ScottQuote Reply
The baby dragons at the end of season one don't concern me so much, they can't fly yet, they don't breathe fire. I would think they'll be scurrying around pretty quickly so we won't get a real good chance to study them and they'll look fine. The problem comes when they get bigger as the series progresses and they have to compete in people's minds with whatever Weta comes up with for Smaug in The Hobbit.
As to the Wheelhouse, I always pictured a gypsy wagon on steroids. Just like the first picture Paul put up but twenty feet high and twenty feet wide.
gofalconsQuote Reply
Sorry for the terseness of that last message. I was on my phone so didn't have time to properly compose.
Basically, though, there's no benefit for skimping on the pilot. They don't want to go over their budget, obviously and in that way you could see it as "saving the money for the dragons," but I want to see them use every resource that's been made available to them to ensure the pilot kicks ass.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
@Legion –
I don't mean this in a rude way, but were you serious about using lizards with CGI wings for the dragons? If so it's funny that you would say that, but think its so important to go all out for the wheel house. Goes to show how different everyone's approach to the show is, and how hard it must be for shows like this to please everyone.
@PG –
I agree they shouldn't hold back any surplus money, but they have to produce the pilot with the rest of the series in mind. The show can't skip a bit from episode one to the rest, and a lot of decisions they make in the pilot will be both stylistically and financially binding. Plus, I think HBO uses it to judge the production and financial aspects of it, so I'd assume they tell them to produce the pilot as they would the series, and give them funding accordingly.
ChrisQuote Reply
@gofalcons –
I was just thinking the other day about how absolutely awesome they will probably make Smaug in The Hobbit movie. I never thought of whether that could change the perception of the dragons in this show, but there will probably definitely be some comparisons.
ChrisQuote Reply
Chris,
In all seriousness, if Legion's talking about what I think he's talking about, it's the idea of modifying an animal actor to ensure the movements are fluid and believable, well away from the the idea of gluing wings onto a gila monster that they did back in the 1950s.
"I'd assume they tell them to produce the pilot as they would the series, and give them funding accordingly."
All the more reason for them to use every single bit of money earmarked for the pilot.
Again, if the series isn't picked up, it won't matter how much money they were able to save.
They'll be using the money to create things that exist in the pilot that will definitely be used again when the series is picked up. So, in a way, they will be saving future money for the dragons.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Chris,
I was thinking about that too.
My guess is that it will push them to go another way with the design, so there isn't so much room for comparison.
Still, GRRM has an idea of what they look like in his head, I'm sure. I'd hate for him to be disappointed when they come to life, so I hope they come up with something similar to his dream.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Honestly, I envision puppetry with CG embellishments for the dragons. Eyes, wings, smoke puffs, etc. added to base puppet dragons (who behave when wrapped on and around Dany).
I also envision a lot of obscuration through heat warping and a general inferno. I can picture a long shot where she emerges from the pyre and we barely can make things out. As she walks toward camera things come more into focus, finally, we see something, some THINGS, and just as she is close enough, we see what are on her in earnest, and then…
CUT TO BLACK.
silence.
"oh no they DIDN'T!!!!!"
credits.
end of season.
:)
…ryan
P.S. Don't be such an apologist. It's okay to be terse sometimes, we like a little vim and spunk now and again!
invertebraeQuote Reply
@Others – the first and ?most important use of CGI in the series
Honestly, if they get this wrong, people will change the channel before they get to see the great actors, great script, and wonderful props that we've been frothing over for the last weeks/months/years.
HBO – think Nazgul not Sesame Street. Mean, dark, scary. Set a tense edgy tone for this adult series or you've just wasted your money, D&D's time, and the best source material you're like to see.
couchpotatoheadQuote Reply
I don't think you have anything to worry about if you're putting your limit at Nazgul. They were PG-13 at best.
For the Others and the dream sequences, I'm looking for Matthew Barney, Japanese/Korean horror, the creepiest bits of Carnivalé x10, the Black Lodge, Ken Russell, and worse.
And, I have utter faith in D&D and McCarthy. I may not get what I want exactly, but I know their vision of the Others is going to be anything but lame.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
I think kinnygraham made a good point about it perhaps being a cart used in Your Highness. Perhaps I was wrong.
Still, I am on the side of those who favor more CGI for the wheelhouse. It is, after all, Cersei's bedchamber (and nominally Robert's as well). That means a garderobe or at least a chamber pot. I can't envision Cersei inviting guests to share meals with her in a Gypsy-style wagon with her chamber pot sitting in the corner and rumpled bedsheets. It doesn't have to be fantastically huge, but a 40-horse team sure says pretty darn big. Think of it like the wheelhouse used by the papal delegates in The Name of the Rose only 2 stories tall and larger in length and perhaps width.
If it can't fit through the gates of Winterfell, it has to be at least taller. And this is Winterfell we're talking about, not one of the smaller, more normal sized castles.
mogonsQuote Reply
Cersei's wheelhouse was always supposed to be an absurdity and I thought probably even sort of tacky, in a way. There is a point at which elegance, no matter how refined, can become overblown at which point it becomes tacky. To me Versailles and the Vatican are places that take extreme elegance to a level that becomes tacky – I think Cersei's wheelhouse could be this sort of thing. Imagine a tiny little, mobile manor house on wheels – it would be as if the President road around in a solid gold Winnebago.
BrudeQuote Reply
We always come up with good ideas for discussion when news is sparse.
Julia published a green screen photo from Paint Hall. A nice tease.
Kinnygraham: thanks for coming here with your news and photos first, WiC deserves that. He is now probably in a very very tough dilemma :) Wonder what his thoughts are on the matter. I would love to se the sigil GRRM took a photo of during his visit.
Again I vote for the post to be titled Day 17: Last days of filming in Northern Ireland :)
MarkoQuote Reply
For really bad made CGI dragon you should check an Polish adaptation of Witcher short stories (same the well known game is based on).
For even worse baby dragon you can check this movie (starts at about 1:35).
Of course it wont be anything even near this in case of GoT, but i just wanted to show you what means bad CX :D
petrQuote Reply
@Chris
You have a good point there about Smaug and dragon comparisons. A good part of my disappointment in Return of the King was because it's cgi became outdated by Pirates of the Caribbean. By that I mean PotC set the standard for what a marching undead army should look like, and RotC's version didn't cut it after that.
The dragons will have to not suck (dear lord, if I see another cgi monster give us that roar pose, you know the one I'm talking about…hold back for a sec then jabs his face forward while holding a muscle builder pose and roars at the screen with it's mouth wide open…I'll, I'll, sigh, chalk it up to animators once again not being properly edited). Direwolves, honestly…I'd be happy with Jumanji or Goldan Compass quality animals.
Critical GeekQuote Reply
@ryan
I can totally see this kind of season finale. Heck, I WANT to see this season finale :)
idQuote Reply
As far as the wheelhouse goes…um, did you guys LOOK at the John Addams SFX tape? The green screen could just as well be more castle, or snowy background, or quintuple the number of live guards….
Critical GeekQuote Reply
Petr:
well those dragons in Witcher tv series were bad as you said, but they had a very low budget and i think they did well, it could be even worse. I've read the Witcher books from Sapkowski and I've also seen the whole tv series and they caught the very dark atmosphere of this cruel,bad and suffering world as it was pictured in the book. There were some things, which were a bit funny(unconsciously) because of their very low budget, but overall it was very good and some parts of some episodes were even perfect.
But to get back to the GoT, i've pictured the wheelhouse as a something very large and wide, almost like a small house on wheels, but not in some ridiculous way. :)
The wheelhouse is important, but i think, that there are more important things than that. Like the Wall and prologue for example.
Molda22Quote Reply
My favorite movie dragon is still Vermithrax Pejorative from the movie Dragonslayer. But for a few bad traveling mattes here and there, the special dragon effects in the movie are simply amazing. When someone inter-cut shots from this film with LotR shots and posted it as a fake trailer for The Hobbit, a lot of people took it for real. They even singled out the dragon effects for their quality – WETA does it again!!! (except it was ILM doing it back in 1981).
BrudeQuote Reply
Hi guys
Just thought I'd throw my tuppence into the current discussions.
While I was having lunch on set (swedish meatballs btw! Very nice!!) I was sitting on a wall, watching a few crew members working on this cart. They were cutting up a roll of bright green material and attaching it to the edges of the window in the side of the cart. I remember thinking "I wonder what that's for" but I was soon brought back on set. I wish I had asked someone as I didn't realise it would cause such debate on here. It is a small gypsy style cart so it can't imagine it will be used for the 'wheelhouse'.
A few more titbits from Wednesday.
There was a separate, documentary crew on set all day. They were always there, trying to get interviews with the cast. I saw them asking Rory who politely asked if they could wait until after his scene. I saw them interview Richard using the courtyard as a backdrop ( of course I just happened to wander past as they were filming!). They kept popping up filming everywhere. So there is definitely some behind the scenes footage being prepared (probably for an EPK).
I have a lovely picture in my mind of Joffrey. Just as we were leaving the set, we were in the minibus. It was raining and Joffrey was standing just inside the castle gate alone in full costume, holding an umbrella, and lost in thought. It was a lovely image.
There was another moment when the 1st AD had to tell a guard extra not to use his staff as a walking stick but to hold it straight in front of him.
The director had a bit of trouble getting Isaac to fall on the correct spot.
If I think of anything more I'll be back.
BTW – Really enjoying the book so far.
Hope all you guys are well.
rimshot44Quote Reply
Cool news about the documentary team! I asked Julia last week if there was one but at the time there hadn't been anybody.
Will look out for you Rimshot ;)
JacMac30Quote Reply
A nice piece of news. This may be part of the fist official video material we're going to see, and with Rimshot in the frame on top of that :)
MarkoQuote Reply
Perhaps I should also mention that I was lucky enough to be able to visit the Paint Hall back on 17th October.
Although I wasn't asked to sign anything there was a strict ban on photography of any kind, so sorry – no piccies.
Things were still at an early stage back then so most of the space wasn't utilised yet, but I did get to see two ‘sets’ for AGoT.
The smaller one – which I also saw the production drawings for – is described as 'INT. CATELYN'S BEDCHAMBER'. As yet unfurnished, this however did give a good impression of a relatively small room/chamber in a castle. Big enough for someone of importance but not luxuriously large.
The larger set – and the one which I found quite cool to be in – is for the 'burned tower chamber' in which the twincest is happening and which has the window from which Bran is flung (the final scene of the pilot as I understand it). This was 'finished' very nicely with scorch marks etc inside. And like I say it was just generally cool to be standing at the spot of what is a pivotal scene in the story – one that marked out AGoT as being quite different from usual 'fantasy fare' when I first read it and which I hope will get people hooked on the story when they see the pilot.
The contrast with 'Your Highness' was interesting as the sets for that were very 'shiny medieval / high fantasy' whereas the look of the work in 'AGoT' was much more 'gritty authentic' and felt like something you would encounter in real castles.
@ ‘Winteriscoming’ – although I don’t mind mentioning this here in the ‘comments’ section I don’t want to attract too much attention to it either. My visit was arranged as a favour, and while I was not asked to take a vow of silence or anything, I wouldn’t want to run the risk of any negative fallout by drawing too much attention to it either.
kinnygrahamQuote Reply
Exciting! Thanks for telling us, I'm sure your wish for a low profile will be respected. Every big fan will read the comments, though, so we appreciate the info. Do you perchance have an e-mail address you don't mind giving here?
MarkoQuote Reply
Thanks, Rimshot and kinnygraham :)
Glad you're enjoying the books, Rimshot! Would have been awful if you'd got all involved with us here and then hated them!
SilverstarQuote Reply
"The director had a bit of trouble getting Isaac to fall on the correct spot."
Does this mean what I think it means. It has to be about Brans fall right?
Never imagined we would see him actually hit the ground using the actor instead of a stuntman or a dummy. Just thought we would see something like a short stuntman being pushed out the windows. Then watching a dummy fall through the air. Then a view from above with his body spread out on the ground. And then cutting to credits. But that has to be a scene with the actual actor falling and landing "in the right spot"
Or am I making a fool of myself again. like the last time i tried to interpret Rimshots post.
PeterQuote Reply
We know Rimshot was present at the sparring scene. Some amount of falling may be involved there as well.
MarkoQuote Reply
Have to agree the the Sparring was the first thing to come to mind when reading about the falling but I guess it is possible it was for the final shot of Brans big fall.
With regards to Smaug and Dragon comparisons. The first series of GoT will likely have aired before the first part of the Hobbit (which may not even feature Smaug) so the GoT dragons will be on show before Smaug is.
MormegilQuote Reply
The fall in question was jumping down from the wall in the courtyard when Catelyn saw him climbing, the fall scene is being shot today
SpirosQuote Reply
@Mormegil
We'll see the babies, hopefully, before we see Smaug but I think the babies will be fairly easy to do and fleeting besides (see ryan's proposed finale above). The problem comes in later seasons, after 2012, when Hobbit part II has come out and our dragons start growing up.
gofalconsQuote Reply
@Spiros: Are you at liberty to tell us more?
MarkoQuote Reply
I'd forgotton about that climbing scene.
MormegilQuote Reply
@Peter. – Actually, I got that slightly wrong. It was the other kid who fell but the director was having a bit of trouble getting Issac to whack the kid and for the kid to fall on the correct spot.
(I didn't know about Bran's other fall. Bugger!)
rimshot44Quote Reply
@Rimshot,
You're going to have to stop reading people's posts on here. The last thing we want is for you to get spoiled too much!
SilverstarQuote Reply
I'd always pictures Daenerys's dragons as more serpentine and smooth-skinned than most of the clunky, scaly dragons we see in movies today. I envisioned them sinuously sliding across her shoulders and arms, as vividly-colored as coral snakes, with wings that seem tiny until they stre-e-e-etch them out, basking in the heat of the fire.
But yes, …ryan's scene is exactly how I'd do it. Maybe one full heartbeat on Dany and her armfull-of-coils, and then cut to black.
Oh, and for the record I always thought the dragons in Reign of Fire were semi-homages to Vermithrax Pejorative from Dragonslayer – a great movie and my first formal introduction to the wonders of cinematically-bared breasts. Good times.
About Yea HighQuote Reply
Dragons may be big and shiny and full cgi or puppets with cgi elements……but the hatchlings, when those eggs first open, I think Ryan has the best idea.
Frankly, it'll be a bit rubbish to see little newts with wings running about, where as a blacked out shadow imagery thing that shows that the dragons have hatched without clearly showing them allows them to grow between series' and debut properly in S2 as grown creatures.
As for what I meant with using real lizards, I stick by that if they decide to show hatchlings. Why use CGI for tiny things like that?
legion_quest666Quote Reply
@ Marko.
Any particular reason you need my e-mail address ?
kinnygrahamQuote Reply
Oh, never mind actually – I just wanted to ask you to share more of your on-set experience in a more private manner, but on second thought that would not be fair. You have shared and are going to share what you feel comfortable with, and our little community as a whole appreciates it.
Would like to hear from Spiros what his source of info is.
MarkoQuote Reply
No problem Marko – I appreciate and understand the enthusiasm of you and the rest of the community
But to be honest there is nothing really that I could add to what I’ve already mentioned here anyway. I’ve been lucky enough to have been in the right place at the right time to see a couple of ‘sets’ and that’s really it. (OK – I also attended the GRRM book signing – in the queue for that, I was right in front of that American couple who got engaged that night at the moot !) But I haven’t talked to anyone from HBO or anything like that as there was nobody around from them when I was at the Paint Hall.
kinnygrahamQuote Reply
Anyone from here going along to the signing tomorrow in London?
SilverstarQuote Reply
Those who go, do ask about some future shooting plans George might know about, could be a good opportunity (and the last one). So, how many days in Paint Hall, when exactly Morrocco starts and ends, when is the principal photography scheduled to wrap? Those kind of things.
MarkoQuote Reply
@Marko – Best not reveal too much, but source is sound.Watched the climbing scene, Kings arrival and leaving for hunt, you will not be disappointed! The hound is terrifying in make up by the way. Paint Hall def finishes Weds, all off to Morroco Thurs I am told.
SpirosQuote Reply
@Marko,
I'll try, but I doubt we'll get much chance to talk to him tomorrow as he's not going to make it to the pub with us, so it'll be whatever conversation I can squeeze in whilst I'm getting my books signed.
SilverstarQuote Reply
Thanks, both of you.
Keep us posted, Spiros. Whatever details you feel appropriate. You seem to be a proper shady insider, heh heh.
MarkoQuote Reply
I could go………..I really could…………but I can't really afford it…………
legion_quest666Quote Reply
It'll literally just be the signing tomorrow anyhow, Legion. Not much chatting and no cast. So it's not the same as missing Belfast. There will be dozens of other opportunities for something similar to tomorrow :)
SilverstarQuote Reply
Yeah, this is what I'm thinking. I'd love to meet GRRM and tell him I'm Legion and see if he recognises the name from when I got some of his clues, but I can do that at some time in the future and he might even not recognise the handle at all, and then I'd be disappointed, lol.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
I prefer to think he nods slowly, then whispers into his lapel, "It's LEGION! Take him!"
Even if nothing happens after that, it'd still be a neat thing for him to do.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Heh, I bet there are so many people from all over the internet sending messages to George all the time that he has no idea whatsoever who most of us are.
Although there was quite a funny moment at the signing when Pod from over at Westeros got to the front of the queue, and GRRM shouted out "POD!!" for the whole bookshop to hear. Think he goes to every signing he possibly can.
Parris knew who I was, but I don't think GRRM had a clue who I was until I'd introduced myself and chatted with him for a bit. Wondering if he'll even recognise me tomorrow!
SilverstarQuote Reply
I was gonna go tomorrow, but I'm ill and can't. I did see if I could order books over the phone and get them signed but I was given a resounding no by Forbidden Planet, who told me I could only preorder a signed copy of Songs of the Dying Earth.
Which is a bit of a bah. I was then going to see if somebody else I know that is going would take my GoT book and get it signed for me; Forbidden Planet scuppered that as well, telling me that they will most likely have to restrict customers to Songs only, if it gets busy (which it will I'm sure), and that they can't guarantee at all that they will allow GRRM to sign other works.
Ah well. I'll just wait til another time. There will be other signings, and if not, Octocon. XD But still.
SamanthaQuote Reply
5 day forecast for Marrakech: (Sun 23C)(Sun 26C) (Sun 28C) (Sun 30C) (Sun 30C). It's official. I'm jealous!
Maybe we could all stow away in a camera bag or something ;)
JacMac30Quote Reply
Excellent, interesting news!
And the bit of mistery in all…mmmm I like it!
More, more, more!
@Legion
I resolve almost every mistery over here, excpet one: Where do you come from?
@JacMac
Jealous, too.
The rabbitQuote Reply
@ Rabbit, I'm from the UK, the south coast, my typing can sometimes go all over the place though (either because I'm doing several things at once or because I'm drunk) and it must seem like im typing English as a second language!
Mystery solved :P
legion_quest666Quote Reply
There's a chat scheduled for Esme Bianco on Thursday, November 12th at 7pm in the UK (that's 11am Pacific Time).
Esme Bianco LiveCloud Chat Event
It's a text chat with a moderator. You can visit the link above and post questions to the chat in advance (even right now) if you want.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Thank you, Legion
I was not sure, if you were from the USA or the UK.
The rabbitQuote Reply
Just don't tell him the Giants have lost 4 in a row…He might go into deep depression and not finish the book. :) I'm looking forward to that 'not a blog' being the Cowboys fan that I am.
dizzyQuote Reply
Just a reminder that GRRM apparently reads this blog, and is trying hard to avoid football spoilers so he can watch the Tivo when he gets home. I'd avoid talking about it on here, out of consideration…
lexQuote Reply
So, Rimshot saw a gypsy cart. Given I don't think that belonged to the transportation crew, I think that's gonna be our wheelhouse, (perhaps with a few John Addamsish size extensions). I'm on the side of the "not a big deal"'ers anyway, on that count, but "gypsy cart" is a whole lot more specific than "cart", so thanks.
***SPOILERIFICNESS****
Heh, the book has Dany walking naked out of the fire with a dragon suckling from each tit and the third draped around her neck. Good luck getting that shot with trained lizards.
***END SPOILERIFICNESS****
Re: Dirty sets
Best. News. Ever. Nothing says authenticity like dirt. That's what made Star Wars look good and all the rest of them look like someone took a squeegee to the entire empire.
Critical GeekQuote Reply
Critical Geek,
Can't agree more on the dirt. Very happy to hear about it.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Really glad they are going with the gritty, realistic look but it doesn't really surprise me, the books just scream that style. I think the show is really going to throw a lot of people's perceptions of fantasy off, much like the books have done to many of the readers I'm sure.
I also think the whole "HBO's take on fantasy" tag line is going to becoming something we hear a lot. Not that they did much but order the pilot and hopefully the season, but I can't imagine any other visual medium that could do the books justice, so that's saying a lot about HBO.
ChrisQuote Reply
not sure if they'll shoot dany with the dragons breast feeding. that one barely worked in the book text, i think it would look comical on film. i just envision three puppet dragons around her naked body, and she emerges from a wavy warpy heat haze, and at the last split second we catch a glimpse of what we realize are dragons, just before the bottom is pulled out form under us and the season comes to an end.
almost certain that will be how they end it.
and the wheelhouse doesn't have to obey the cannon here, but it DOES have to be opulent to the point of excess, so that when we see cersei for the first time, we associate her means of transport with her persona.
television and film offer less opportunity for exposition than literature ever will. which is way any imagery that can capture that exposition has to be utilized to the fullest.
even moreso considering i don't imagine a narrator. at least LOTR used galadriel (blanchett) to cover some of the narrative passages. i don't see GoT doing this. it's a diff kind of story.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Being a Traveller's wagon or Gypsy cart doesn't preclude making it bigger with CGI. Although the bit about putting greenscreen material around the windows may indicate just that they were going to gild the windows with CGI or perhaps create a shot looking in through the window. But then that brings up the possibility that they need CGI for an interior shot through the cart window in order to make the interior look huge. :)
The motion capture dots could be the same deal. They can be explained as either no change in size or a large change in size and they need to get the look of the wheels moving so they can be expanded with CGI.
Horses is a problem. I don't believe there is anyone alive who could control a 40-horse team. People who can control more than 4 are pretty darn rare.
While I fall somewhere in between massive like a tower and small like a real life wagon, I still think it would be cool if we saw a gilded, medieval-looking version of the Helepolis of Demetrios and Epimachus come rolling up the road to Winterfell. :)
Good points, ryan.
I like the visual of sinuous almost snake-like dragons insread of scaled, beefy Komodo dragons with wings. Dany even mentions how they appear much smaller until they unfold their wings.
mogonsQuote Reply
Spoiler
Well, it is not a first time lately I saw a mention of it, on the internet.
Somehow, we are trying to avoid to spoil, even here, on hard-fans blog, but I can find it almost on every single article refering to Lena Headey, especeally on "not-asoiaf-fans" sites.
just sayin…
The rabbitQuote Reply
Other than possibly a voice over the credits at the start of the show i can't see that GoT would work with a narrator.
Also, just as a random aside, lots of comparisons to LotR and Hobbit already, but we, and reviewers and anyone else need to remember this isnt a hundred million film project, it's a TV show. Just sayin'
On saying that, the Cersei in my head wouldnt travel in a gypsey cart, not even a big gypsy cart. But as I say, that's the Cersei in my head, not your Cersei, GRRM's Cersei or HBO's Cersei.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
@mogons
not to be a prude, but those wouldn't have been motion capture dots. those would be tracking markers. i don't want people to confuse motion capture (which is more like andy serkis standing in front of cameras with a suit on to record his 3d movements) with tracking dots (which are used to composite in cg set extensions etc. into an existing shot).
ok end prudishness………
a greenscreen wrapped prop with motion trackers can ONLY indicate they intend to alter the appearance of that prop in post. and the only think i can imagine altering on a gypsy wagon would be to make it more than just a gypsy wagon.
and the only gypsy wagon that is more than a gypsy wagon in the pilot script would have to be……… cersei's coach. no?
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
@legion
if band of brothers, rome, carnivale and john adams aren't proof enough that GoT can look every bit as good as LotR, i think we are all setting our expectations too low.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Unless that wagon wasn't for GoT and was a riding coach for 'Your Highness', which frankly, is much more likely given that it was labelled with 'Your Highness' script!
legion_quest666Quote Reply
@legion
ah, too true. too true.
:)
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Really, now? I read it differently (no script – wagon connection whatsoever).
MarkoQuote Reply
Why would they need a real gypsy wagon if they are just going to paint over it in post?
wabawangaQuote Reply
The ‘YH’ script page was stuck to the window of a temp structure about a quarter miles walk uphill from the location where I saw the cart(s) and the set. Come to think of it – the same structure could have been placed there from somehwere else with that still attached to it.
Rimshot has already confirmed they saw someone working on the cart/wagon while they were there. So I think it is safe to assume it has SOMETHING to do with AGoT :)
Re motion capture or whatever – this is down to my technical / terminological ignorance. They were squares / rectangles of red cloth or paper placed against the green material at fairly regular intervals. Note from reviewing my pics this only seems to have beeen done to the front of the wagon and one side. The other side and the rear did not have these red marks.
kinnygrahamQuote Reply
The script was in a "staging area:"
"I also happened upon what appears to be the staging area for the actors/extras to get changed in (this was in the car park I would normally park in when visiting Castle Ward). For some reason, somebody has taped an excerpt from the ‘YH’ movie script on to one of the windows on this temp structure."
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Er…what Kinnygrahm said.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Ah, ok, I read that wrong, and when you said you found a script taped to a structure, I read it as you meant you found it on the cart.
Perhaps the directors etc. have read Wheelhouse as just a normal carriage. I'd be disappointed with that, but i'll get over it.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
kinnygraham – aah, so maybe Cersei will emerge from the rear wagon, which on film will just appear as the bottom/rear of a much larger CG wagon.
wabawangaQuote Reply
kinnygraham – aah, so maybe Cersei will emerge from the real wagon, which on film will just appear as the bottom/rear of a much larger CG wagon.
wabawangaQuote Reply
Somehow, we are trying to avoid to spoil, even here, on hard-fans blog, but I can find it almost on every single article refering to Lena Headey, especeally on "not-asoiaf-fans" sites.
That one got out from reporters (like Herc at AICN, if you can call him a "reporter") who don't know any better and use Wikipedia to fill out their stories, not knowing what is a spoiler or isn't.
It's a shame they can blow it like that. Herc got a lot of people yelling at him in the comments section about that, so he removed it, but a lot of other news stories and blogs copied from his post there about it, I think.
BrudeQuote Reply
Yeah, Brude, it is almost everywhere.
It is even more exposed than ..
*SPOILER*
Ned Starks fate
*SPOILER*
The rabbitQuote Reply
Well I think we also forget that LoTR was not a massive budget for 3 (3 hour) movies at about $270 million. That's stretching a dollar in terms of in terms of how movies are made today. I think effects and 'the look of the show' are dependant on the skills and talents involved with the production not neccessarily the budget.
dizzyQuote Reply
Don't know if it would work for AGoT, but what if they used voice overs for characters internal dialouge. Like in David Lynch's Dune, I always liked that and was very dissapointed when the sci-fi channel version cut it out.
HouseUmberQuote Reply
HouseUmber,
From the leaked script and McCarthy's own style, I doubt that convention will be picked up.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
I've never atually cared for the inner monologue 'style', except in Blade Runner where I don't prefer the director's cut.
dizzyQuote Reply