Yesterday the production arrived in Morocco and today, I am assuming, they began filming in earnest. Julia Frey put up a short blog post about being in Morocco; Ouarzazate to be exact. A quick peek at Wikipedia reveals that Ouarzazate is Morocco’s version of Hollywood, so it makes sense that would be home base.
No reports from George R. R. Martin yet, although he was scheduled to arrive in Morocco yesterday. I imagine he will wait until returning home to post again. As expected, the set reports have dried up now that the location has moved from Northern Ireland to Northern Africa.
We did get some more details about the filming in Belfast via Esme Bianco’s live chat yesterday. As you can imagine, Game of Thrones fans were there in force. Esme was quite forthcoming on many of her answers. Some of the highlights include being impressed with the child actors during the table read, her mentioning that each of her three auditions the script was totally different and that they filmed her scene on location, not in the Paint Hall. Be sure to read the full chat for more info.
As usual, if I hear anything about the shoot today, I’ll post it. But I wouldn’t hold your breath.
UPDATE: Based on this tweet from Julia Frey, sounds like they will be finished filming in Morocco by the end of next week.
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116 Comments
FIRST!
lexQuote Reply
SECOND!
bolufromthesooQuote Reply
The chat was interesting. Some great little bits picked up, especially when it comes to the CGI and the fact that the script is being rewritten as they go, which may be common, but does mean we can not care as much about the leaked script.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
And there is a large posibilty that the Ned/Jaime discussion will not be put to screen :P
JillianQuote Reply
@ Jillian: Wha…?
lexQuote Reply
Lex, there was a new dialogue in the leaked script between Ned and Jaime that was…maybe not up to par with the rest of the script. Other new scenes and dialogues were all pretty darn good, basically sounded like they were scenes that could have been in the books but weren't. That particular dialogue came off a bit awkward and had some details that seemed to miss the point of both characters for many.
It's quite likely that that dialogue was changed by the time they shot the scene, especially if they were even reworking Ros' scene (which I and most who read the script thought was pretty darn excellent).
BrudeQuote Reply
Some props from Atlas Studios that can be used for Vaes Dothrak later on maybe.
MormegilQuote Reply
ACHT!
(resists making U2 joke)
Good thing the filming crew decided to take off to Morocco. According to the weather reports the British Isles are about to get hit by a monsoon.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Oh, okay. I acquired the leak script the day it became available, but I ended up deciding not to read it. I skimmed the very beginning, but then decided I didn't want to spoil it for myself.
Maybe I should read the Ned/Jaime scene…
lexQuote Reply
i actually tried to sneak in a question at the end with esme regarding her lines. my question was something along the lines of:
in the leaked script you had about six good lines with tyrion and jaime. how many of your lines survived the rewrites, did they expand your role or marginalize it?
but alas, it didn't make it past the moderator before time was up.
shucks.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
In hind-sight we probably should have come up with questions before the livechat, but oh well.
JillianQuote Reply
Ryan,
I heard from the folks running the chat that there were tons of questions left over at the end.
Good news, because I hear that for some guests they have "dead air" while they wait for new questions.
Go, Esmé!
Paul GudeQuote Reply
So to be clear, do we know if the Ned/Jaime talk was totally axed or just reworked with (hopefully) better dialogue?
While the lines of dialogue that were leaked did lean a bit on the melodramatic side, I like the idea of a slow-simmer standoff between Ned and jaime at the feast. Maybe a thinly vieled reference to Ned seeing Jaime on the Iron Throne?
lordnedsheadQuote Reply
At this point i don't think we know anything for sure. Esme made it clear that during auditions they were still changing things in the script. We know scenes have been added, things have been cut, etc. It makes sense that they would at least look at that scene again (even if it wasn't changed since the leaked draft). It was really the only part of the leaked script that fans had a relatively large problem with. If the powers that be heard about the Tamzin reaction, and NCW's nose, it stands to reason they also know how a lot of people felt about that dialogue.
JillianQuote Reply
HOW TO ENSURE GOT'S SUCCESS AS A SERIES IN THE FIRST EPISODE (IN FIVE SIMPLE STEPS):
STEP 1: Axe Cersei and Pycelle sending message about Jon Arryn (thrice redundant if you count Ros mentioning it, Catelyn receiving it, and Ned reading it). Didn't someone say show don't tell once upon a time? Arent D&D novelissts? Come on now.
STEP 2: Axe Jaime/Ned scene. Sure you need to establish Jaime as a character early on, but find another way. This scene was always contrived and brought the series down to a poor man's King Arthur knock off. This isn't Merlin! Twincest should probably. And launching Ned's son from a turret window couldn't hurt.
STEP 3: Give Sansa a speaking part. Do it when the girls are knitting, and expand that scene to include Arya running out upset. Establishes a sisterly discord and sets both on their path.
STEP 4: Give Tyrion some more lines, because he is going to sell this series. He will be what viewers talk about the following week. He will be what drives up ratings in the short term.
STEP 5: Give Robb some more lines, because once the girls catch on, wildfire….
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
That should have read "Twincest should probably work."
But you guys are smart, and probably could have figured that one out on your own.
*cricket-cricket*
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
SEVENTEENTH!!!!
DNix7Quote Reply
Ryan, I'm with you.
furreverQuote Reply
@invertebrae
Agreed. These relatively small changes could prove to tip the scales in favor of a greenlight.
sjweningsQuote Reply
So to be clear, do we know if the Ned/Jaime talk was totally axed or just reworked with (hopefully) better dialogue?
We know nothing. The fate of that scene might as well be inside Schrodenger's box, from our point of view. Any and all possibilities are true, until someone outside the cast, crew and HBO observes it.
BrudeQuote Reply
video (in French) of Atlas studios, could some of these buildings/streets be used in the Pentos scenes.
We know Julia Frey visited Atlas Studios as she was on the Kingdom of Heaven set wich was filmed there.
MormegilQuote Reply
Ryan, I disagree with cutting the Jaime/Ned scene as it really helps to establish Ned as the stern and orderly man of honour and Jaime the arrogant wind up merchant. I liked that scene.
I do however agree with the rest of the suggestions, and believe that Sansa and Arya should have had a scene together like you say, likely with Septa Mordaine knocking about.
I think Tyrion has enough lines, GoT is a book and should be a show about many characters, without meaning to sound like a prick, it shouldn't become 'The Dwarf Show' just as the books didn't become solely the adventures of Tyrion.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
@legion
But when you look at the interest around the show thus far, the from the announcement of dinklage to the casting polls here and abroad, it's clear that Tyrion should be the EARLY draw, that's all I meant.
And I still feel the air of mystery around Jaime's intentions at the moment he says "The things I do for love," at least for me, was very effective, because I knew next to nothing about him, but after that happened I wanted to know EVERYTHING I could about that bastard.
Just my opinion.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
I think that worked well in the book because you'd already heard about who Jaime was from Ned's internal monologues – lack of those on the TV show means that you really have to set Jaime up carefully on screen. The dialogue between Ned and Jaime does that, although granted it was clumsy in the leaked script (and his likely be re-written and such).
While Tyrion has had the biggest buzz, that is likely because his name was announced first and while obviously the poll on this page says he is the most looked forward to, that is likely because he is pretty much in everyone's top 3 characters and we're obsessive book fans!
While Dinklage will undoubtedly get his fair share of the buzz, with Headey and Bean in this, when publicity comes round, by bet is that they will take the lions share of the publicity because they are the more household names.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
I hope they keep the Ned/Jaime scene. I think they're trying to set up the Stark vs. Lannister tension early and they need scenes with clear conflict to make that happen. The only other moment of direct Lannister/Stark conflict in the leaked script (at least until the very last shot) is the argument between Robb and Joff, which the watcher could write off as a childish squabble.
Dinklage was actually the only name I recognized from the line-up. It didn't take long to figure out Headey was the queen from 300 and Bean was the guy who's not Viggo Mortensen in LOTR, but Dinklage is THE dwarf working in Hollywood right now.
izakmoQuote Reply
izakmo, where do you live out of interest?
I'm genuinely suprised that Dinklage was the guy you recognised as although I am aware of his work and have seen him in alot of things, he isnt a guy whose name is out there or who has really done any chat shows or any shows really, here in the UK that I've seen anyway. Sean Bean on the other hand is a household name, and I assumed because of LotR, GoldenEye and the first National Treasure film, among others, that he would be in America and else where as well.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Dinklage is a star and all, but certainly isnt on par with someone like Warwick Davis imo as the most recognisable dwarf actor, yet anyway (Davis has been around forever after all).
legion_quest666Quote Reply
I live in San Francisco.
I think Sean Bean is more of a recognizable face than a recognizable name in the US. He's probably best known for his role in LOTR, where he was still playing second fiddle to Mortensen. I don't think he's been in an American blockbuster since "Troy," where he again had a supporting role.
I know Dinklage because I happened to watch "The Station Agent" and "Elf" in the same week when they came out. I definitely consider him a more talented actor than Davis, although you're right that he's less recognizable.
I wouldn't call either of them "household names," although I think Dinklage stands out more in the movies he's done (for obvious reasons) than Bean.
izakmoQuote Reply
I think this is likely a country thing.
With both Bean and Davis being english, they are simply more recognisable and more household than they may be in America.
I keep forgetting things are different around the world, lol.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Legion, I'd say so on the country thing too, although it may be a question of which films they've done, too.
Dinklage's role in The Station Agent really cemented him in a lot of folk's minds as the perfect choice for Tyrion. McCarthy's writing and directing gave Dinklage a perfect environment to display his skills and he really blew folks away.
It also what made him a household name for a lot of folks in the states, to the point when he recently appeared on an episode of 30 Rock it was definitely considered a draw.
Whereas Sean Bean is a great actor, there was a much wider pool to draw from as far as potential candidates go.
For many, Dinklage was seen as the only true choice, not due to fame, but rather ability.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
At no point did I say Dinklage wasnt the right person for the role, I'm sure he is from the small things I've seen him in (no pun intended).
The point I was making was that I didn't want the show to become only about him as Ryan was suggesting Tyrion should have more lines in the pilot. I then went on to suggest, that in terms of general appeal and face value, Heady and Bean will likely be the centre points of publicity and advertising, with the other just behind.
As for Dinklage on 30 Rock, I 'acquire' that show every week and thought he was great in it, but a check of Wiki's ratings shows that his episode was the lowest rated of the entire season. No idea what it was up against, but I'm still doubting that he is all that well known giving that result.
My guess would be that Bean will be the spearhead of advertising for Season One should it materialise and then Dinklage will an 'inheritor' once Bean is dead and the show, hopefully, goes on to Season Two.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Side note from the current topic, but this weeks Merlin on BBC One (for UK viewers, dunno when it's shown in America) has a Brienne like woman duelling with Prince Arthur.
Probably a bit old to be our Brienne and not really ugly as Brienne is described, but certainly forshadows that female warrior thing, so it'll be worth seeing how press react to a strong female knight as oppossed to Xena.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Legion,
I honestly agree with you that throwing more lines at Dinklage isn't necessarily the recipe for success. However, I do agree with Ryan that Dinklage will have people talking right out of the gate. I think he'll be a standout with what he's already got. In order for him to do that, I think we still need Ned as the main focus.
Using Deadwood as an example, we're allowed to be seduced by Al Swearengen because of the stark contrast (see what I did there?) of straight arrow Seth Bullock.
I think we'll get just enough Tyrion to make us want more, and then root for him when it comes time for him to take a more prominent role.
That's my own take on it, anyway.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
I suspect you are right Paul.
Just like the book, GoT needs to be the story of the fall of the Starks, while the next books are really the story of the rise of the Lannisters through Tyrion's eyes before we get to AFfC when they all get chapters and the book fragments down and introduces bigger stories for other people.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Check out the Jennifer Ehle blog – she's in a new project, "The King's Speech", filming over the next 7 weeks. Of relevance to GoT:
"Director Tom Hooper held a read-through of the script on Wednesday [November 11] with the company, including Guy Pearce as Edward VIII, Michael Gambon as his father George V, Timothy Spall as Winston Churchill and Derek Jacobi as Dr Cosmo Lang, the Archbishop of Canterbury.
However, Jennifer was filming the lavish HBO drama Game Of Thrones and couldn't meet Hooper and his cast at the rehearsal."
So I guess that means they were still filming GoT on the 11th?! In the studio maybe?
a.Quote Reply
@a.
According to Spiros, they filmed Ned & Catelyn scene in Wednesday morning at the Paint Hall.
MauberlyQuote Reply
Having just re-read the first couple books, Season 2 is where Tyrion/Dinklage will shine.
LexQuote Reply
@Mauberly – ah, missed that comment. Ta.
a.Quote Reply
(Bit of Spoiler)
I totally agree with Ryan about Ned/Jaime scene being suppressed. They don't need to emphasize the Stark/Lannister enmity even more. They already have the kids' sword clash, Ned and Catelyn conversation, the general atittude of the characters, even the colour of the Houses helps to stress the differences…
Really, guys, keeping that scene in the pilot would only ruin the amazing final shock effect we all experienced when we read 'the Falling' for the first time. If you know beforehand Jaime is that typical arrogant cocky guy, everyone can easily imagine what is he going to do when he catches Bran at the window. It is not like: OH MY GOD! Wait! Is that for real?
Just what I think… And well, Jaime is my favourite character. Every second of him on screen should be worth of it. :)
MartaQuote Reply
But, we do that in the books!!!
ned has an internal moment where he mentions how much he hates Jaime and why.
So we do already know all about how arrogant he is, what we don't know is how fat that arrogance goes.
the scene between the two replaces the internal monologue from Ned that we can't get in a series and sets up that's he a sleeze, so you're already disregarding him as a bit of a git, but not really a threat, cos Ned 'beat' him before.
That way, when it's revealed actually he is more than just arrogant, he is actually a complete amoral bastard (at that point), you get an even bigger shock.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
@Lee Jun
jaime pushing a stark boy out of a window should be where the tension begins. you should SENSE some unease beforehand, but you shouldn't have the strong antagonistic feeling toward the lannisters until the things they do for love.
i stand by that, and i bet money on them tempering the foreshadowing to that moment as much as humanly possible. the more shock you can get from that scene the better.
in fact, there's nothing wrong with leading the viewer to think jaime might as well be a good guy up until that moment. at the very least, the viewers shouldn't be sure what to make of him.
A scene at the feast where jaime and ned show their feathers toward one another, no matter how well crafted, tips your hat to that pivotal moment in the end. if the scene stays, I'd use it to mislead the viewer into thinking Jaime's motives are nothing if not chivalrous toward his hosts.
We need to (on film) believe (if only for a moment) that Jaime truly just wants to know how old Bran is as he sets him down in the window sill. Your own point about translating book to image works against you in this case, IMHO. That scene needs to fuck your whole shit up, and the more contrast they can instill up until that moment, the better.
Finally, I never said Dinklage is the biggest name in the show. I said he (Tyrion, more specifically) will be a stand out character in the pilot, and I stand by it. I felt the same way about Samson in Carnivale, though even he could probably have done more to drive the tone of the show.
Tyrion, in my feeling, is the closest thing to a Westeros mascot this show will have. He, on his own, can exude a performance which drives the show's tonality. The rest of the characters are "players" whereas I felt he was sort of "home base" for me when I read. When a Tyrion chapter came out, it felt like I was reading the main plotline again, even when that might not have been the case.
I'll stop rambling now. Sorry.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
@legion
Also, this internal monologue you're referring to doesn't exist, at least not before Bran's fall. If you can cite it, that would be great. I looked it over and found something more interesting.
1. Ned doesn't comment one way or the other about Jaime prior to Bran's fall.
2. Jon and Bran actually both look at Jaime with admiration before the fall.
Here's some proof:
NED'S FIRST "THOUGHTS" ON JAIME:
"There came Ser Jaime Lannister with hair as bright as beaten gold …"
"Robert had looked at her, and her twin brother Jaime had taken her quietly by the arm, and she had said no more."
JON'S FIRST THOUGHTS ON JAIME:
"Jon found it hard to look away from him. This is what a king should look like, he thought to himself as the man passed."
BRAN'S FIRST THOUGHTS ON JAIME:
"Ser Jaime Lannister looked more like the knights in the stories, and he was of the Kingsguard too, but Robb said he had killed the old mad king and shouldn't count anymore."
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
oh oh oh! I found what (I believe) you were referring to, legion. it's just not internal dialogue from Ned, it's an observation from Cat:
..
"The queen's brothers are also in the party," she told him.
Ned grimaced at that. There was small love between him and the queen's family, Catelyn knew. The Lannisters of Casterly Rock had come late to Robert's cause, when victory was all but certain, and he had never forgiven them.
"Well, if the price for Robert's company is an infestation of Lannisters, so be it. It sounds as though Robert is bringing half his court."
..
I don't think this actually creates a vehement hatred, more like a discord of tension, which will be present without an added exchange between Ned and Jaime. As Marta mentions, there are already a handful of moments where you can nod to the tension.
It doesn't need to be spelled out, and I still believe you might want to supress it even more in the pilot, so it doesn't become so obvious. As viewers, we look for each and every action/word and treat it like a potential clue to who and what we are seeing.
In fact, all they really need to do is axe the Ned/Jaime scene, and add this anecdote to the Godswood scene already present in the leaked pilot:
..
CATELYN
The raven brought more news. The king rides for Winterfell. (beat) Along with the queen and her brothers.
Ned considers this prospect for a moment. Clearly Catelyn already has. They both know what it means.
NED
He hates the cold. Always has. If he comes this far north, it’s one thing he’s after.
..
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Ryan,
I understand where your coming from, but disagree. I think one of the beauties of the POV style of writing is that different readers have different home bases, as you put it. For me, on the first read at least, Ned, Jon and even Dany were more of a central plotline while Tyrion was just an extremely entertaining sideshow. I guess my point is that if the show is truly successful, different viewers will have different characters who they relate best with, and the show will facilitate this in the way the books did.
AbrahamQuote Reply
@Abraham
I totally agree. In fact, I would go as far as to say that Book 1 is Ned's book.
I simply mean in the first episode of the first season, they might utilize their weaponry, and Tyrion is a great character, and Dinklage one of the strongest actors (if not the most "famous") on the bill. He will stand out because he is an Imp, because he is witty, because he is played by a great actor.
Ned is an honorable if occasionally boring character. Sean Bean's Boromir was boring and flat in LOTR (sorry guys, it's true, Faramir had more potential even). Ned goes with his heart, and the whole beginning of his journey is simply following Robert back to King's Landing.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
I also have to confess that I tend to blend all the books together into one long book. None of them really make a strong attempt to close up plotlines and have a confined story. It's obviously just a dot, dot, dot at the end. So Tyrion's story definitely blossoms in book two, but in terms of ASoIaF, he's 1) still alive, and 2) still my mascot of westeros.
Who is yours?
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
@ ryan: I think you may find a lot of people disagree with you. Peter Jackson and Sean Bean's take on Boromir is considered by many to be one of the only areas in which Jackson may have actually improved upon the original. Sean Bean was able to make Boromir a much more sympathetic character than in the books.
Peter Jackson's take on Faramir, on the other hand, is almost universally considered one of the worst ways in which he changed the movie from the original books.
LexQuote Reply
@Lex
God I loathed Bean's Boromir. Not for any reason other than I found the acting sucky and the character one-dimensional and cliché.
It didn't come across, but I also disliked Faramir, my point was supposed to be that Boromir was even worse than Faramir IMO.
CODSWOLLOP AND POPPYCOCK!
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
I hear you Ryan. Was just looking for a little clarrification. I actually agree with you in regards to Bean and LOTR, but I don't have that concern at all in regards to Ned as Ned is just such a better character than Boromir was, and I believe Bean will nail the part. Either way, I'm still just thrilled that this dis ussion is going and that they've already finished filming the majority of the pilot.
AbrahamQuote Reply
Emm Lee Jun? Who is he, apart from a extremely good-looking korean boy? :) Anyway, great reasoning, Ryan! These are exactly my thoughts expressed in words.
IMHO they should keep by all means that increasing tension until the very last scene, the more shocked the audience is, the more they will get hooked on the show (and willing to see the second episode). You know, it is supposed the directors will make a decision after the screening of the pilot.
I personally love the idea of a gorgeous knight in a shining gold armour doing a terrible and unexpected anti-chivalry action such as Jaime's. The last scene of the pilot will also show that AGoT is not a common story. Although we fans already know it.
On the other hand, the main plot belongs to Daenerys imo, because we know she will be there until the very end and she is the legitimate heiress to the throne. But Tyrion is the most sympathetic character for the reader. I don't know what to think about him after ASoS though, or how will be his role development in ADwD.
I have the feeling that Sean Bean will be a better Ned than he was Boromir. At least, as you say, Ned is the main character in book/season 1.
MartaQuote Reply
@Marta
Agree, agree, and agree.
Bean will be better as Ned, though I was and am still sort of in the Bean minority. I'm apathetic at best with him playing Eddard. That is good, because now he can only surprise me when he kills it!
Dany would be a likely ASoIaF plot beholder, as might Jon. But Tyrion is still its mascot. Part of Dany's problem, is that so far they've only laid a whole lot of groundwork for her inevitable move on Westeros. We have no idea what GRRM intends to have happen with her. In that respect, she is a shifty protagonist to bet the franchise on.
:)
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Funny. For me, Bean's Boromir is one of the highlight of that movie, and is the main thing I'm excited about in regards to him being cast as Ned. :)
LexQuote Reply
The only concern I have with Bean as Ned, is the fact that he has not got in his career a similar character to play.
The role of "pater familias" is a whole new experience for him.
That is away, the most of the "ideal casts" through the years on the internet, contained Bean, but always as Bronn (or such a character).
The rabbitQuote Reply
@Lexington
Yes, many many people (many!) thought Bean was the obvious choice for Ned. And you know what, he might pull off the patriarch role well. I'm just indifferent at this point, and anything he does above and beyond status quo will be a bonus.
@Brown Bunny
Agree with you. Although I don't have any concern as to whether Bean can actually play this type of a character (Ned). He's just not going to (IMHO) be the one in the first episode who gets people sucked into the character stories which define ASoIaF above its peers.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
@Ryanitis and everybody
I just want to point out, that I do not consider Sean Bean as bad actor, on the contrary, I think he is an excellent actor, and I am pretty much happy that we have him on board.
I just do not consider Sean completely "spot on" for the role of Ned Stark.
And I do not think that his performance as Ned what be bad, let s say that there were some better choices out there for that role, not even big names.
Sean is known as badass-vilain characters, and Ned Stark, is something completely opposite of that.
Very reluctant, distant and cold in some way (as seen by some other characters in the book,), yet fragile and sensitive in his own skin.
He is more complex than any other Sean Beans characters so far.(including Tolkiens and Jacksons Boromir.
The rabbitQuote Reply
Did no one see Bean in Lady Chatterley's Lover? Definitely not a bad guy or a badass in that movie…. he played Mellors, the sexed-up gamekeeper. And he did a fine job, if I may say so :)
CloudedDazeQuote Reply
Some HOBBIT News: Rumours have surfaced that Brian Cox may have been cast as one of the dwarves.
I think he would be excellent (perhaps as Thorin Oakenshield?) but I mention it here because maybe this would affect the chances of Brian Cox being cast, or not being cast, in GOT…
LexQuote Reply
Dear ryan,
RE: your take on Bean's Boromir
You are on crack.
Dear everyone else,
RE: your take on Jackson's Faramir rewrite
You are also on crack.
:)
Critical GeekQuote Reply
Lex,
That's too bad, as I thought Cox would be great for Game of Thrones.
Ryan, I have to agree that Tyrion is the "main" mascot of the show. Again, I liken his character to Al Swearengen in Deadwood. Not in manner or action, but in the one character that really sums up everything that Game of Thrones is all about.
The second character that I think will take on that role is Arya, especially if they really mess her up with hacked-off hair, caked with dirt, and fierce. Maisie has the potential to turn in a performance like none we have ever seen.
I'd put Brienne in that role too, later on. An iconic character that's purely owned by Game of Thrones.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Some HOBBIT News: Rumours have surfaced that Brian Cox may have been cast as one of the dwarves.
If Brian Cox has really been cast, it can ONLY be as Thorin Oakenshield when it comes to an actor of his stature. There's no way he'd take a lesser role. Also, he's suitably older for that particular role.
BrudeQuote Reply
"Sean is known as badass-vilain characters"
His best-known roles are as Boromir, who is flawed but hardly a villain, and Major Richard Sharpe (in no less than sixteen two-hour TV movies), who was so heroic he apparently won the Napoleonic Wars on behalf of Britain, Spain and Portugal almost completely single-handedly (bar his plucky Irish sidekick).
In fact, when it comes to 'badass bad guys' I can only think of his roles in PATRIOT GAMES and GOLDENEYE and that's it.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Re: Brian Cox. The only other role that people have suggested is Balin, but I agree, Thorin is the most likely.
LexQuote Reply
I thought he did a good job as a badish guy who was NOT a badass in Ronin.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Still, Adam, that doesn't go anywhere to disproving your point.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
I was watching Bleak House and all I can say is that Charles Dance is Tywin, he even look like NCW (tall, blond and the prominent nose).
ebleyesQuote Reply
critical geek,
I may be in crack, but boromir and faramir are still two of the worst characters in jacksons LOTR, I don't care what you say (sorry, it's the crack talking).
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Adam
Patriot games, goldeneye, AND National Treasure
He's also Sharpe!
Critical GeekQuote Reply
Ryan,
they are also the worst characters in Tolkien's Lotr, so perhaps Jackson got something right. :)
Critical GeekQuote Reply
What is going on here? Boromir and Faramir are Tolkien's worst characters?? No way, not even close! Faramir, in particular, is a fan favourite.
LexQuote Reply
Boromir was boring and flat in LOTR
That's funny. I thought Boromir was PERFECT in LOTR. In comparison, besides reading the books, I had been used to the visual of the animated first half (unfinished) LOTR version, a gruff bearded guy with a horned helmet.
I think Sean Bean (and editing) added to that character, you can really sense the urgency passed on from his father.
Actually I found Faramir to have been miscast.
As for most of the characters in LOTR, they are not the most in-depth. Tolkien was a boring philologer; didn't really understand the full range of human complexity. Although he really nailed the british hobbit type, I guess.
Anyway, I am not a fan of Sean Bean, but he 'killed' as Boromir, and by proxy he's an obvious perfect match for Ned. I think seeing Ned in live action is going to be shocking though…. he's such a nerd.
AnonymuffQuote Reply
or, to be less caustic: Tolkien didn't seem interested in painting a complex picture of social or sentimental situations in his books… so all his characters are boring as fuck. LOTR IS a post-war Lutheran Church Children's book, no?
I mean look at Strider… oh, so mysterious… details omitted! but no, he's the king come back, still.. not much personality eh? BUT we do know who his great-great grandaddy is! How convenient. And where are the women??! LOTR is a snapshot of life in the trenches with a bible and a family tree??
Anyway…
AnonymuffQuote Reply
@Adam
I was not clear enough, sorry, sometimes it is pretty hard to find a word in english to express what I really wanted to say.
The words like vilain and badass, I admit are to hard to describe all Beans roles.
Boromir is not 100% vilain, I agree, and for Sharpe, I admit I have not watch the series, but as you said, the heroic major in Napoleon wars, that also excluded the role of the "pater familias" what Ned Stark was.
The most important thing, IMO, to bring Ned Stark to life is to bring that nuance between his outside coldness and his inside deep worry, sorrow, and sense of honour (of which one becomes aware mostly through his POV-s inside thoughts).
I am going to point out once again, I am very, very happy that he is in GOT, but I am somehow worry is he the right person for Ned Stark.
The rabbitQuote Reply
Hm: an actor with three daughters should have some idea how to behave as a father figure. Also, I found him to be quite convincing in "The Dark".
Boromir was an underwritten character to start with. PJ already added a lot to show that he was a good person at heart, and that is was really only the Rings influence that made him snap – like the interaction with his brother, defending him against their father, his relationship to his troops etc. Bean made all of this work, and I can't think of anyone who could have made more out of what was in the script.
DunkeltrollQuote Reply
Leave your judgements for Sean Bean to the day you will see him on TV as a Ned. :)
Until that day, you can have your opinions and thoughts, but to judge him beforehand isn't really good idea.
And that can be said to every GoT actor/actress. They can please us, but they can also fail us and we don't know which of these two options will happen. :)
Molda22Quote Reply
I do not judge him.
I am just writing about my worries, nothing else.
I like Sean Bean as an actor, that is not an issue there.
But, all I wanted to say that I have never seen him in a role similar to Ned Stark.
That is why,I have this little worries, nothing elese.
I do not really understand, why are you talking about judging.
Just to add:
Julia Frey posted a new post on her blog, with intereset pics from Morocco .
And the last one, can easily give us, a picture what sort of "mood" we can expect from the footage….I like it very much.
The rabbitQuote Reply
Rabbit:
Just because he didn't appear in a role similar to Ned doesn't mean he can't do this. After all he's an actor :)
Why I said that thing about judging? Well just because i felt that some people were very close to the meaning of this term :)
But after all, we may never see them to please or fail us if HBO decides to not pick up the series. But even big pessimists like me are convinced that they will grab this. (Because otherwise, we will have to start a big demonstration) :))
Molda22Quote Reply
@Molda
I am sorry, but you missed my point.
I said, that I have worries, not that he is not capable of doing that.
I will see it, as you will (If we got the series hopefully).
The rabbitQuote Reply
The rabbit:
I was talking in general, not just about your opinion ;)
But ok, we all have our little worries, so i hope that we'll have a chance to see if they come true or not :)
Molda22Quote Reply
in closing, i don't have a problem with bean as ned whatsoever, but the first couple episodes, there are a couple other actors (tyrion, arya) whom i think can hook viewers on the show a little harder, based on the first parts of ned's journey.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
No single person will get her very own mental image of how aSoIaF should be realized as a TV series come to life. Not even GRRM, since there are compromises to be made – for some characters, there might not even exist an actor to nail it down 100%. Time (both for the shooting and running length) & money are also factors limiting what can possibly be done.
But given the cast & crew assembled, the locations chosen, the images leaked and the first draft considered, what can possibly screw the project to an extent where a single one of us would have to shake his or her head in disbelief?
OK: it might not hit the nerve of the general TV audience. It might seem to cost intensive for HBO/BBC alone. But take a look at the IMDB All-Time Box Office: World-wide: apart from Titanic, Mamma Mia!, Forrest Gump and Casino Royale, every single entry in the top 50 is a SF/Fantasy film of some sort (and yes, I noticed The Passion of the Christ at rank 45, but refuse to take it as a "realistic" movie – it's rather Braveheart with a cross). So there IS a market for well-made fantasy fare, even if the usual HBO-subscriber should happen to have a different taste.
What I'm trying to say is something like: the pilot is going to be great, and if the HBO suits are on their senses, they simply HAVE to grrmlight GoT – and we all will be pleased with the outcome, on a range between "just good" and "fantastic".
DunkeltrollQuote Reply
Couple of days ago I posted Part One of an Assassin's Creed video that Ubisoft have commissioned as a live action prologue to their AC sequel due out next week.
I said that when they were released I would post up the other parts. Well, but of a suprise as this weekend they not only released Part Two but Part Three as well.
If Ubisoft can make some advertising for a game look that good, I think GoT should look damn good!
legion_quest666Quote Reply
Wow!
That looks really good!
The rabbitQuote Reply
I only saw the first part so far, but that one was really cool. Got to watch the other two, but not now – I don't want to spoil the dinner I'm preparing… ;-)
DunkeltrollQuote Reply
I can't believe people are doubting Sean Bean's ability to play Ned Stark!
I'm sorry, but Ned's character (pater familias, or brooding father figure, or honourable stoic lord, or whatever you want to call him) is NOT the most challenging of roles. In fact, I think it will be EASY for Bean, much easier than some other roles he's played in the past.
Just wait and see. Sean Bean will be a perfect Ned.
LexQuote Reply
@Lex
Agreed 100%.
legion_quest666Quote Reply
@Lex
I hope I will see it.
The rabbitQuote Reply
@Dunkeltroll The Passion of the Christ IS fantasy!
RoninKengoQuote Reply
I think the Hound is much more complex, deep and chalenging character than Ned. Sean Bean is a very good actor and I think he will not have problems or difficulties to give life to our Stark lord.
Ana CarolinaQuote Reply
One week left of filming and then we wait… What to do to while away the time?
RaynetteQuote Reply
Hmmm… forget about the whole thing, pass out time elsewhere and check back in early March? Just kidding… ;-)
DunkeltrollQuote Reply
The person who suggested that LOTR was some kind of Lutheran children's book was well wide of the mark. JRRT was a devout Catholic and most literary critics have remarked on that formative influence on his work.
I'd take those comments a little more seriously if only the person who made them actually knew anything about what they were spouting about,
kinnygrahamQuote Reply
I don't understand any of the complaints about Bean as Boromir. I always felt he was robbed of an Academy Award Nomination, in fact. He made a character which in the book was my least favorite into one of my very favorites in the film.
To me he was, along with Ian McKellan, the high point among the actors in the first film. (Viggo was damn good too, to be fair.)
BrudeQuote Reply
Bean's performance in Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring blew me away. Bean showed depth, conflict, heart, and desperate contrition working with what easily could have been a two-dimensional role.
Seriously, next to Tom Bombadil, Tolkien's Boromir was one of the worst characters in the book. (And I would have accepted Liv Tyler playing Xena at Helm's Deep before accepting some stoned dude popping up and doing a bad rendition of a Naughty By Nature song. Hey! Ho!)
Plus, Bean's death scene was great. It ranks in the top ten of all-time Hollywood deaths. My wife still bawls her eyes out, every re-watch.
So I agree, Ryan's in the minority with that opinion. But as far as his take on Tyrion – spot on. How can it be any other way? Next to Edd Tolliver, Tyrion routinely gets the best lines, week in, week out. And he gets put in the most fucked up situations. Dinklage will own it. I do predict Golden Globe and Emmy nods.
About Yea HighQuote Reply
Since you guys talk about LOTR, I must absolutely delurk…
Bean as Boromir was outstanding! He makes me cry every time! I'm pretty confident that Bean will also make me cry as Ned… :P
Salutations from Montréal! ^___^
AureaQuote Reply
Edd Tolliver?
AriQuote Reply
Kinnygraham is quite correct. Tolkien was a devout Catholic. As were most of the other members of the Oxford literary group, the Inklings, which included C. S. Lewis. Lewis was another fantasy writer whose work is heavily influenced by Christianity, although he became a member of the C. of England much to the annoyance of Tolkien. The Christian influence is rather obvious in their works. Thus the rebuttal in literary form of humanist authors such as Philip Pullman, in the His Dark Materials series.
I agree that Bean was excellent as Boromir. I think he handled the nuances of the part very well. I also agree that he shouldn't have any trouble portraying the staunchly honorable Eddard Stark.
The difficulty playing some of the more nuanced characters is one reason I worry about the casting of Brienne. I am afraid that the casting will be driven by the obvious physical characteristics required for the part, and we'll end up with someone who can't portray one of the more interestingly complicated characters written by GRRM. I feel the same way about the casting of Sam Tarly.
mogonsQuote Reply
Sean Bean is an excellent actor and I have no doubt he will play Ned superbly. I thought his take on Boromir was great, particularly given the limitations of the character in the book. He's also brilliant as Sharpe and indeed in most of the roles I've seen.
As regards favourite characters, I'm going to go against the grain and say I'm not as enamoured with Tyrion as the rest of you seem to be. He's an interesting enough character, and I don't dislike him, but he doesn't stand out as hugely better/more important than the others to me, and there are other characters whose stories and development I find more gripping. I love Arya's story because we see so many different places and people through her eyes. Dany similarly shows us a very different side of the world to the others, and her difficulties in ruling/making war are interesting- and we've seen her make mistakes (also worth remembering she's younger than Robb!). Jaime's character development is brilliant and I've gone from hating him to hoping he gets the chance to redeem himself. Littlefinger is a great manipulator and you never quite know what he's up to- though I don't like the character at all, it's great to read what he's done/planning and what others think of him. Having said that, there's only one character who consistently disappoints me and that's Cersei- she's a great controlling/power hungry bitch, but I was hoping, through her POV, to see a more rounded character. However she still comes across as completely unsympathetic, I can't even feel sorry for her losses. I've read the backstory from her POV and still don't feel anything but cold towards the character. I know that's probably the point, but I'd find her more interesting if I could occasionally sympathise and I just don't. Still, maybe that will change- I used to dislike Sansa (she's a very realistic girl, but she's annoying), however I've found myself far more interested by, and understanding of, Alayne :)
Of course, one of the strengths of the books is the variety of characters, hopefully this means the series will appeal to a wide audience.
shinyteapotQuote Reply
Mogons, I share your concerns about Brienne and Samwell. I don't, as some feel, think that we'll need to rely on prosthetics and camera tricks to bring these characters to life.
I honestly believe that there will be actors out there who have some body of work but whom aren't springing to mind or showing up in our searches.
I don't think anyone suggested Joseph Mawle as Benjen before, but the consensus seems to be that he'll do a fine job.
The difference, of course, is the extreme physical descriptions of the two characters. I think there's an assumption made that we should be able to figure out who they're going to cast in these roles because the playing field is so narrow.
I'm not too worried about it. I have a feeling that HBO will continue casting people that we don't know that well for these roles. If not, it'll be a pleasant surprise, I think. Even when they've gone with a known actor when we've been expecting an unknown, I think it's worked out okay. Say what you like about Momoa, but he's still pretty true to the description of Drogo.
Shinyteapot, I know that I've mentioned this before, but Cersei's chapters always seemed to drive the point home to me that she has actual mental problems. The description of the moth in the lantern is a great example, to me. Also her impressions of the people around her. I think it's a great job by GRRM, and one of the reasons why I think I enjoy AFfC more than a lot of folks I know.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
for brienne have a look at the "millennium" trilogy (or actually duology because the third part isn't out yet) based on stieg larsson's books.
noomi rapace who plays lisbeth there would be an almost perfect fit for me. despite being beautiful as hell she can look "horsey" if she chooses to (some scenes in the trilogy and her role in "daisy diamond", for example). she's a really talented actress. she has a kickass butch body (not overly muscular but…erm…sinewy). she speaks english (albeit with a slight accent). the only problem is her height – i think she's only about 170cm.
peeterQuote Reply
Peeter,
This is always a problem.
As I've mentioned in a different thread, when picking an actress for Brienne, you'll need to satisfy a number of factors. Finding someone who has *all* of these qualities will be difficult. So the question is, where will they skimp, and how?
1) Height/Build
From Tower of the Hand: " She is tall and ungainly, thick for a woman."
Obviously, this is the one that narrows the choices the most. They could choose to ignore this aspect of her, but it informs so much of her character. They could fake it with visual effects, but I'd so much rather it not be necessary.
2) Facial Features
From Tower of the Hand: "She has large, blue eyes, straw-colored hair, broad, coarse features, and a flat face. Her teeth are prominent and crooked, her mouth is too wide, her lips are swollen, her nose is battered and has been broken more than once, and her face is covered in freckles."
As stated several times by many different people, this is a case where prosthetics could be used. I keep hearkening back to Robin Weigert, who isn't unattractive, but became so for Deadwood. I don't think we'll find an unattractive person looking at headshots, and at least the broken nose part may require prosthetics. So, I'm coming around to that part.
3) Fighting ability:
Brienne beats a lot of men in combat, in a world where folks play for keeps. She as do be damn good, and in order for that to work, folks have to see and believe her skill. To me, this is second only to acting in order of importance. I hate hate hate hate fight scenes where someone of lesser skill is tried to be propped up as a badass. It just doesn't work for me.
4) Acting ability
Goes without saying. I used to give this the back seat to the others, but folks have brought me around to the idea that you can't skimp on this for Brienne.
5) Accent
Where is Tarth? Is it far enough away that an Australian accent would work? What about South African?
Like I said, we may not hit all these points, but they're probably going to have to compromise somewhere.
Still, I hope they don't have to.
Above all, I trust the casting directors. I think Brienne is probably the most anticipated cast member for me in Season Two.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
One of the interesting things about Sean Bean's casting, to me, was that it means he gets to play a husband and a father. A lot of his roles – a surprisingly huge number – are of loners, confirmed bachelors, guys who should be married but aren't (I never worked out why Boromir, as the heir to the stewardship of Gondor, wasn't married by his age) and so on. He does eventually get married (twice) in SHARPE, but I don't remember him having kids, or if he does it's not right up until the very end.
I would recommend checking out SHARPE simply for Sean Bean playing the 18th Century British army version of Jack Bauer. He doesn't torture people so much, but he is almost as indestructible.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
I really hope there isn't any focusing on particular characters, and that it remains the ensemble piece that it is in the books. I think there's too many amazing characters in there for us to say that Tyrion is the star, or Arya is, or anyone else is.
I, for one, would be disappointed if it became the Tyrion show. He's interesting, but he's not that interesting over and above the other characters.
SilverstarQuote Reply
makes me wonder whether tabrett bethell with prosthetics (think theron in monster) would qualify for brienne.
- Tabrett as Cara
Of course, if they renew Legend of the Seeker, it's all moot.
…ryan
invertebraeQuote Reply
Silverstar,
I think there's a subtle difference between what Ryan seemed to be initially advocating (giving Tyrion more focus) and what I was describing with Tyrion and Arya.
I think there are characters that will stand out for viewers, especially viewers who may not be familiar with the books. I used Al Swearengen in Deadwood as an example, but there's also Omar from The Wire, and (as Ryan pointed out later) Samson from Carnivale.
These characters may not get the most screen time, but they do get some of the best lines, do some of the coolest things, or in some way embody the production.
I think Tyrion has been brought up as the main example by me, Ryan, and others because:
1) Tyrion pretty much has this role already in the books
and
2) Peter Dinklage has the talent to blow folks away.
You can't help but watch a good ensemble piece and not notice a few stand-out performances. It doesn't mean that the other ones are bad, it's just that a few can blow you away. In my opinion, and I hasten to add it's just my opinion, it's going to be characters that the audiences haven't really seen before.
Besides Tyrion, I picked Brienne because she's a totally new take on the "tough girl" character and Arya, because she's the stock "tomboy" with all the cutesy edges sheared off.
I've got a feeling that Bronn might be another one of those, simply because he's kind of like Han Solo without any heart, the mercenary taken to the extreme. Even though there have been characters like him in the past, there's something kind of irresistible about that.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Ryan,
According to her modelling agency Tabrett is 5'8", which I would put at the low end of the height thing, but not a deal-breaker.
Likewise, an Australian accent is better than a US one in my opinion.
Of course, you know my preference for some unknown to swoop out of the ether and completely blow all the casting agents and fans away with how perfect she is in every respect.
You're slowly teaching me that that's probably not going to happen, no matter how slow a learner I appear to be.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
@shinyteapot
That's the great thing about the books, each has his own favorites.
You start like your stark character and then you move onto the lannister. Some stay with their former love, some move on etc…
Funnily enough I love all the lannister for their humor. Tyrion mostly of course because he is the one that has it from the start but Jaime I really grew fond of him. And even Cersei.
The only characters in the books that got me bored to death are Sansa (for her stupidity) and Dany. Although I know lots of people like Dany, I hated her. For the way she behaves (I don't think she has anything of a ruler, I don't feel sympathy for her) and for her story arc.
Although I'm eager to see her on screen hoping that it'll redeem her to my eyes.
As of Brienne, I think the most important role for her is to make Jaime shine and look like the knight he really is. That's why she has so many flaws so that we can see the good in her and have her recognize that Jaime goes behond this to see that good. (oh and also so he can mock her. :D). So I don't mind if she doesn't have a crooked nose or teeth in the serie as long as she makes Jaime shine.
SA_AvengerQuote Reply
@Paul Gude,
There's a difference, I think, between viewers picking their favourites, and the writers picking favourites to focus on. Viewers will obviously have favourites, but I don't want the writers to do the same, to be honest. Perhaps selfishly, because I know a lot of my favourite characters will suffer if that is the case, and I'll enjoy the show a lot less. Tyrion is the standout to many people, but not to all, by a long shot. People have mentioned him as a 'home base' for them, but he never felt like that for me, at all. The Starks are my 'home base', and so I'm far more interested in Ned, and Catelyn, and Sansa and Arya. Tyrion is my entertaining sideshow.
We've got a lot of great actors who should be able to sell their characters really well. I think Dinklage is great, but I don't think he's head and shoulders above some of the other actors.
I want the writers to stick to the books, in the sense of having an ensemble cast, and let the viewers pick their favourites, but not to end up sacrificing one character's screen time in order to try to 'crowd please'.
SilverstarQuote Reply
Heh, a guy from the Guardian has got hooked on GRRM.
Dragon crack?
SilverstarQuote Reply
They are shooting the wedding scene tonight!
Not a Blog
MauberlyQuote Reply
Hey I see George has posted and it's the wedding tonight!
JacMac30Quote Reply
Darn! Slow fingers! ;)
JacMac30Quote Reply
Nice to hear from the man. The first scene done, then, now just the wedding left. Today and tomorrow, then they cold start packing on Wednesday if things go well.
MarkoQuote Reply
Silverstar,
I think we're saying the same thing, then.
I think folks will pick their favorites regardless of how much screen time a writer gives a character. Sometimes, less screen time benefits that process.
We've seen them adjust screen time in the pilot script a bit, giving Jaime more things to do in the pilot than he had in the original. Whether they keep that convention is anyone's guess.
Regardless, however, one of the things I've seen the HBO series do is have their ensemble casts really fully represented. There may be a few core relationships that exist, and the focus shifts from show to show, but in my favorites you definitely see that every character has a chance to shine in the end.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Which is awesome :)
That's my favourite thing about the books – that almost anyone can find a character to empathise with and support throughout the series, and we're not stuck with just the 'badass' ones to try to enjoy. Too many fantasy novels are all about the badassness, and it gets dull as anything.
So long as Benioff and Weiss can keep that real ensemble cast feel, I'll be happy, and interested to see which characters come out with the biggest following, as I'm not sure that it'll automatically be the same characters who have the biggest followings in the books.
SilverstarQuote Reply
It's always been my hope that the television audience will feel some genuine sympathy for characters like Cat and Sansa, who often get reviled by book fans.
Paul GudeQuote Reply
Yes, Paul Gude! I get so very tired of looking at message boards with threads like "Cat is a stupid bit**," and "Sansa should be raped," although Westeros has now cracked down on that sort of thing. It disturbs me, even if they are just fictional characters. Sometimes I wonder if the darkness of these books brings out fans who have an especially Thin Veneer.
Anyway, I hope you are right, in that seeing a lovely face to go with a name, and also not being privy to inner thoughts which many have called "whining," will make their characters more popular, or at least more understandable.
CloudedDazeQuote Reply
My hopes exactly ;)
SilverstarQuote Reply