Maureen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune has confirmed that Jane Espenson, writer for such shows as Dollhouse, Battlestar Galactica and Buffy, will be penning the script for episode six of the first season of Game of Thrones.
A “Battlestar”-”Buffy”-”Game of Thrones” connection? Be still my nerd heart!
HBO has confirmed that Jane Espenson, a “Caprica” executive producer who has also penned scripts for “Dollhouse,” “Battlestar Galactica,” “Buffy” and a host of other cool shows, is one of the writers for the TV adaptation of “Game of Thrones,” which was recently greenlit by HBO. Espenson will write the sixth episode of “Thrones’” first season as a freelancer.
Also writing single episodes of the drama: Bryan Cogman, a script coordinator for the show, who’ll pen the fourth episode of the season, and George R.R. Martin himself. Martin, of course, wrote the book series on which “Game of Thrones” is based and has been closely involved in the project since it was announced. Martin is one of the show’s executive producer and a former writer for TV show such as “Beauty and the Beast” and “Twilight Zone.”
The rest of the 10-episode first season of “Game of Thrones” will be written by David Benioff and Chicago’s own D.B. Weiss, the team who scripted the pilot and have overseen the television adaptation from its inception.
Winter Is Coming: This is great news. While I’m not too familiar with Ms. Espenson’s work, adding another writer is always a plus. Especially one with her credentials. It also may help to bring in some fans of those shows she has worked on previously. It sounds like the writing staff is complete, with the only question mark being which episode GRRM himself plans on writing.
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114 Comments
First!
LexQuote Reply
Ugh, Espenson made the last season of BSG a drag to watch
martyrdonQuote Reply
So… how does this work? Are the writers familiar with the books at all? Or do they simply have to read the few chapters they’re working with, and perhaps some background notes?
LexQuote Reply
Battlestar had its on and off moments. From what I hear, Dollhouse and Buffy did as well. I'd be interested to know how Esperson is regarded by bigger fans of these shows than I who would be familiar with her work on these shows.
@ddaimyoQuote Reply
i have to say that espenson seems to be one of the most prolific people in tv-world right now (i especially liked what she brought to buffy). at least when it comes to sci-fi (which, i think, is a good thing). i do think, that she is probably one of those who knows subtlety (a trait that has become realy hard to come by as of late) and that is definitely a good thing for GoT. she won't be one of the showrunners, though, because she is currently tied to sy-fy's caprica.
but a small request to WiC et al: there have been many book break-downs into episodes flying around over the last half a year. could you maybe start tryig to tie specific writers/directors to specific parts of the book for us??
Peeter TalvistuQuote Reply
i wouldn't say exactly that. moore is more to blame for def. but "the plan" (which espenson wrote) was a big steaming turd. although, once again, you cannot exactly blame her, because moore had crapped the story up so grande that it was already impossible to come up with something that would sound half-way logical.
Peeter TalvistuQuote Reply
From what I've seen on the IMDB, her work on BtVS, Angel, Firefly and BSG was mostly good to great.
However, she is also responsible for one of the worst Buffy episodes ever – Doublemeat Palace.
AlexQuote Reply
Actually, we shouldn't pump or be upset because of writers they hired. Scripts plans and notes are already made, these writers will have to put it together like puzzles. It depends now how will they do it.
Quality of the series depends 75% from Dan and David. I saw a four movies which featured Benioff's screenplay. 25th hour and Brothers were brilliant, Troy was so-so, Wolverine was weak.
Some people say that the script for Wolverine was f….. up by Skip Woods, and original David's screenplay was really good. Anyway, I recommend you to see an movie Brothers, outstanding script. Wondering why that wasn't nominated for Oscars…
nskQuote Reply
.Even if they would hire some big name to write at this point he would do sh… He would improve it a little, but if plots were horrific he could do nothing.
nskQuote Reply
Acording to Wikipdedia, she wrote 1 episode of Dollhouse ("Brier Rose"), and co-wrote another ("Haunted"). Both were strong episodes, and I would even go as far as call "Brier Rose" the best of the first season. As mentioned before, noticeable difference in quality exists between Dollhouse's good episodes and it's poor ones, but the two written by Espenson were definitely on the good side of the divide.
TaelorQuote Reply
I'm not sure whose fault it was, but BSG did go down hill there at the end. Caprica is way good though.
Wyatt DornQuote Reply
Generally speaking, the episodes she's written for Buffy have been pretty quirky and kinda silly. Based on her work there, she seems like an odd fit. However, if I'm not mistaken, she's the showrunner on Caprica, which has a very dark mood and which is quite character driven. I think she'll do a good job on AGoT, and I'm not really worried she'll be writing a "funny" episode.
KennefQuote Reply
I was just wondering the same thing. I guess GRRM would choose to write his favourite part of the book. That could be the final episode, or one of the last few.
LexQuote Reply
::spoiler::
Ned's death, fo sho.
nicoleQuote Reply
ZOMG she wrote Shindig!!! "I got stabbed! Right here!"
jojoziggyQuote Reply
Ugh, I am a fan of BSG and her episodes were pretty bad.
AusirQuote Reply
Seems like a strange way to break things up. Why have three episodes written by one person each, and another seven written by a team of two? If Benioff and Weiss are writing seven, why not ten (or nine)? If they're going to have five writers, why give three of the writers only one show each?
Note: I know nothing about TV production.
pualoQuote Reply
Agreed. I think THE PASSAGE and THE HUB were good, but most of the other eps she wrote were pretty weak. That said, she came aboard in Seasons 3 and 4 where A LOT of the scripts, even by otherwise excellent writers, sucked ass simply because of the direction the show itself had taken and Ron Moore changing his mind every five minutes about important underlying facts of the mythology.
OTOH, her work on FIREFLY, BUFFY and ANGEL was pretty decent.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
This is the worst news about the series yet. God, I hope she only does this one time. I don't understand how she gets involved in all these shows. I can't see how anyone would think she's a good match for ASOIAF, usually she does more humorous stuff. Or at least that's where she's better. On the other hand Benioff has written some real clunkers, too. So… stick to the book!
nonoQuote Reply
I wonder where has she shown to know subtlety? I must have missed that.
agorQuote Reply
I think this has something to do with Benioff and Weiss' dual roles as writers and also showrunner-producers, in which capacity they are also involved in casting, expenses, budgetry concerns, editing, visual fx and generally keeping the whole thing moving. In some cases it is not unusual for showrunners to take a back-seat on the writing front (note that Ronald D. Moore only wrote a few episodes of BSG compared to some of the other writers, as he was too busy running the whole production).
Dan and Dave sound like they are going to be more like Lindelof and Cuse, the showrunner-producers of LOST who also manage to write a solid chunk of the episodes each season. They can't writer everything because of time constraints though, so the other writers are being brought in to ease the load on their shoulders. For example, D&D probably wrote episodes 1-3 to show HBO, and are likely now involved in the process of casting and gearing up for production, so episode 4 is being written by someone else to help with the situation, and then they'll be able to throttle back and knock out episode 5 whilst Espenson is writing 6. After production starts and things settle into a routine, they'll then be able to bash out the last three episodes whilst GRRM is penning his one (which I suspect might be a later episode in the season, with the script maybe not needed until the autumn, given the series sounds like it's going to shoot into December or January).
On this basis, given they may not have time to get the first three episodes in ahead of time again, we may see a moderate increase in the contributions of other writers in Season 2.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
This is bad news. Dollhouse, BSG and Buffy are some of the cheesiest shows in history, and she is one of the worst writers in each of those shows!
Hopefully they can keep this series living up to HBO standards and not bring in any more of these hacks.
NicoQuote Reply
I've always been a big fan of Espenson, and her work on BSG showed me that she can do serious drama if she wants to.
NinepennyQuote Reply
I think she's amazing. She is a fan favorite, especially where Buffy is concerned.
Her Dollhouse, Angel and Firefly were good too. But I understand some think her Battlestar Gallactica stuff was less than stellar (I haven't watched BSG myself).
ThomasQuote Reply
I say it's new poll time! Question is: Which episode do you think GRRM will write?
Wyatt DornQuote Reply
I'd say Espenson wrote some of my favourite episodes of Buffy (plus Doublemeat Palace which wasn't), one of my favourite episodes of Firefly, one of my favourite episodes of BSG (with the rest being fairly solid IMO), a pretty solid episode of Dollhouse and two solid episodes of Angel – so overall pretty good. On Buffy some of her episodes are probably some of the most popular and memorable of the entire show and behind Joss she's my favourite script writer. One of the main reasons I watched Warehouse 13 was because Jane Espenson was involved (although in terms of writing credits she is only listed as having co-written the pilot).
NinepennyQuote Reply
I like this move. She wrote some good episodes of Buffy, in particular Conversations With Dead People. She's also pretty well regarded among Joss Whedon's fans, which could bring in a lot of new people. I don't think you'd have to worry about the tone of her episodes. Joss Whedon's shows have a very different atmosphere from Game of Thrones. They're supposed to be a bit silly.
GregQuote Reply
Um, no, the writer's strike made the last season of BSG a drag to watch. You can't really lay that at anyone's feet except Ronald D. Moore's, and even he gets a partial pass.
PranksterQuote Reply
The hatred for Espenson in this thread baffles me. She has her off moments like anyone, but in general she's shown a lot of talent and was one of the best Buffy/Angel/Firefly writers, which I consider to be a very high compliment indeed. Geez, if "Doublemeat Palace" was the worst thing on my resume, I'd be set for life.
Incidentally, people seem to have the idea that the writers are just transcribing the novels. But bear in mind that a novel often has the luxury of briefly describing a scene instead of literally spelling it out, beat for beat; any time a scene like that appears in the books, it's going to have to be fleshed out by one of the writers. Think of the battle of Whispering Wood, for instance, or pretty much any of the backstory, assuming they do flashbacks. Plus, there's room for original material–we already know there's a new scene with Tyrion in a whorehouse in the pilot. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if Jaime's mostly-offscreen storyline in book two was fleshed out significantly on-screen.
PranksterQuote Reply
It sounds like bad news, I hoped this show will have dark heavy drama Rome/Deadwood style.
instead of looking for a screenwriter with solid drama experience they bring in a Sci-Fi writer. I hope it's not a sign that they are going to make GOT like one of those Bufy/Twilight/Firefly TV shows for teenagers with "sophisticated" humor and cliched story line.
שמילQuote Reply
O.K. i agree completely about Dollhouse, BSG and Buffy being cheesy and not my kind of thing…
but SHINDIG is in my top 5 favorite episodes of FIREFLY. so she cant be that bad.
zaccurQuote Reply
Buffy and Firefly are hardly the same caliber as Twilight. They both have their humor, but that's standard for a Joss Whedon show. They both have very serious parts too. Buffy in particular has many academic papers written about it, so I'd hardly call it cliched.
GregQuote Reply
Firefly a "cliched story line" ??? Clearly, you haven`t watched. Or else it was way over your head.
JG84Quote Reply
BSG cheesy? Have you ever watched it? BSG is a fairly gritty war drama which just happens to take place in space. It might have a few corny moments here and there, but it is NOT like a lot of the other Sci-Fi shows out there (e.g. marketed towards teens).
LexQuote Reply
Hehe, do you realize what you just said?
RayQuote Reply
What's wrong with Doublemeat Palace? One of my favorite episodes in an otherwise lackluster season, IMO. Also, the Doublemeat jingle was great, especially when Buffy sings it:
Get the double treat/that's so
double sweet/oh it's hard to
beat/when the meat meets the …
BrudeQuote Reply
I would have guessed that anyone who likes ASOIAF would like Firefly. Both are known for their "realism," seriousness, and character focus (at least in my mind).
pualoQuote Reply
I Third that. From what I understood, she was not well liked with teh more hardcore BSG fan base. Her episodes weren't the greatest. She is also one of the major writers on Caprica, which thusfar has been pretty underwhelming, save an episode or two.
That being said, the directors and creators and Martin have the ultimate vision here and the writer can only be held partially accountable. I trust that the team as a whole has the story's best interest at heart!
MPHendiQuote Reply
As the other replies have said, she's very well-regarded among Buffy writers, although I'd add the disclaimer that her episodes tended towards the comedic. She can bring the serious when it's required though. This Buffy fan is very happy about the news. She's quality.
Fate's BitchQuote Reply
Basically, it's due to the time. It's pretty common on the cable shows, that a creators write 3-4 eps, to indicate a pace. But as a Adam Whitehead said, they can't pen all of the episodes, because they are not Tom Fontana ;P. Penning one script takes 2-3 weeks for cables shows. Anyway, I think people are overdramatic. Don't think like "this woman penned Buffy, so she won't handle heavy stuff in GOT".
I saw similar things. Scott Rosenbaum was writer on The Shield, and know he is on Chuck.
nskQuote Reply
Her entire run on BSG was after the show turned into total dog shit. So I don't really consider this good news.
Steven ScottQuote Reply
Agreed. It's easily the second best and most serious science fiction ever on TV, after Firefly. Firefly was one of the most amazing and original shows ever, but it didn't get much of a chance. Battlestar Galactica is the best other serial drama I've seen that wasn't on HBO.
pualoQuote Reply
Wow. That's GREAT news. Jane Espenson is a GREAT writer. She's both good at humor and at angst and deep emotions. Definitely a BIG plus for GAME
DarkstarQuote Reply
You really didn't get either Buffy or Firefly. Especially the first is argaubly a show with the deepest and honest emotions and character development I've ever seen!
DarkstarQuote Reply
Jane Espenson would not even be able to begin to turn an episode of Game of Thrones into something "cheesy." Really, if you think this is going to be the case you can't have much faith in the series translation at all. What, Arya's going to suddenly quip, "Bran's in trouble – must be Tuesday?"
The series is the series. Let this experienced writer / producer get her feet wet in a fantasy setting with some serious material she can really sink her teeth into. I think the more experience we have the better. Plus, there's just not that much going to be added to the dialogue, period. Especially with a 10-episode order.
Episode six (by my admittedly amateur approximations and calculations) should encompass the following:
Daenerys arrives at Vaes Dothrak, eats a horse heart; later, Viserys tries to strike her and she whips him across the face with a medallion belt. At Winterfell, Bran tries out his new saddle and is ambushed by wildlings–intro of Osha; Theon saves Bran but Robb is still furious. At the Aerie, Tyrion is tried by Lysa Arryn; Bronn volunteers to stand for him in trial by combat. At King's Landing, Ned dreams of the Tower of Joy; he wakes and is forced back into role of Hand by King Robert. Back at the Eyrie, Tyrion outsmarts Lysa when Bronn kills her champion Ser Vardis; Tyrion and Bronn leave the Eyrie. Episode ends at the Wall where Jon is made steward to Lord Commander Mormont.
(Okay, on second thought, Bronn might quip something amusing, depending on who they get to play him.)
But if we're getting down to it, Espenson wrote "Shindig" for Firefly, and that's really all I need to know. That episode is still nails-on awesome.
Fire And BloodQuote Reply
It's not my point, I'm not trying to dish those shows, but I hope GOT will be less like Buffy and more like Deadwood, less Sci-Fi genre, more realism.
שמילQuote Reply
In fairness, it wasn't down to her that the show turned into total DS. She was only a staff writer on Season 3 and her first episode wasn't until 'The Passage' (which by dire mid-S3 standards wasn't too bad), after RDM and his team had made the fateful decisions that would destroy the integrity of the series. On that basis, you could have the best writers in the world – and most of the BSG writers are actually very good on their own merits – and not be able to do anything to stop the rot.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Yeah, I hated Buffy and angel, though Firefly was OK. BSG was OK at first but descended into awfulness.
I was reluctant to say anything because Buffy fan's are very vocal and usually don't handle the criticism well.
Anyways, I do hope they keep all of Buffy's cheesiness out of this production.
RerQuote Reply
Buffy is filled with cliche. Buffy was even more awful then the Stargate stuff, which takes a lot to beat. Not to mention it was hard not to laugh while watching any of the Buffy fight scenes "OMG she's performing the cartwheel of death!!!"
As far as papers go, you could write a academic paper about anything, that doesn't make the subject matter any more credible or less cliche.
RerQuote Reply
The long term plot in Buffy wasn't cliche, the acting, short term plot, character development and fight scenes where. Each episode tidied up with an overall theme and everything that happened was predictable to the point that a 5 year old could call it. Sure there was an ongoing subplot that lead up to the season finale (sort of), but even shows like "married with children" would do that to a certain degree /shrug. It made the show unwatchable. As far as Buffy going over someone's head? Hardly. Firefly was good but not Buffy or Angel.
I understand you're a fan, just keep in mind this is just my opinion and one man's trash is another man's treasure.
RerQuote Reply
I agree 100%
RerQuote Reply
Excuse me, have you guys ever even watched Battlestar (the new one, not the old one)… It is one of the least cheesy shows ever made – gritty, brutal, political and with nuanced believable characters. Everything that is so great about GOT too.
Dolorous DaveQuote Reply
How so, I've seen the first 3 seasons of Buffy and a scattering of the rest. I didn't see any emotional content or acting that was spectacular in any way. The characters where cliche and niche d. I only watched the first 3 seasons because people I know kept begging me to watch it, so I gave it an honest go and after 3 seasons I just couldn't bear to go on. To me the special effects where bad (I can get around that with my imagination), but the fight scenes where so god awful and bad that it was humorous, and I mean laugh out loud slapping your knee funny because it was so bad.
I think the fight scenes where written by someone (maybe Josh) who has never been in an actual scrap, or one they have won anyways. It kind of reminds me of this guy Thigpen when I was a sergeant in the Army. This guy "Thig" was always going on about Tae Kwon Do and junk and how he could break boards and all. We got in a discussion one day about the boards being cross grain and made for breaking, he disagreed. Ten minutes later we had a piece of scrap crate wood stretched across two upside down plastic buckets with Thig standing over them drawing his hand up and down in practice swings preparing for the swing as he breathed in and out for his "Chi" or something retarded. He gave it all he got and needless to say he broke his hand, we all laughed so hard and after taking him to sick call I got in trouble for letting him hurt himself. Anyways, guys like Thig write those kinds of fight scenes, retarded fight scenes that only live in someone's fictional imagination of how fighting should be, but what someone wants and reality often differ widely.
RerQuote Reply
10 episode quick breakdown (entirely MY opinion):
Episode 1: Begining to "things I do for love" plus dany wedding.
Episode 2: starts with everyone leaving winterfell Ends with: Dany gets ridden, Tyrion and Jon reach the wall, hound returns with mycah's head,, cat boards a ship, , Bran wakes up.
Episode 3: Cat arrives in kings landing, Tyrion visits the Wall while Jon sucks it up. Ed starts his investigation and meets cat. Dany owns Viseriys. Arya gets a dancing coach.. Ends with LF accusing tyrion, tyrion getting a chilly reception in winterfell, Mostly a wall episode with cuts to kings landing.
Episode 4: (that dude's episode): Enter Sam. Enter Gendry. The Tournament. Ends with Cat capturing Tyrion.
Episode 5: Begins with arya overhearing whispers. Mountain clan fights. Eddard continues his investigation, loses handship, . Dany enters Vaes Dothraki, owns Vis again. Ends with T anc C getting to the vale and meeting Blackfish, Ned getting cut down in the street by jaime.
Episode 6 (her episode): Tyrion's trek to the Erie. Ned's tower of joy dream. Jon talks Aemon into saving Sam. Ends with Tyrion meeting Shagga and friends.
Episode 7: Ned sends Dondarion after Gregor, figures it out, meets Cercei in the godswood. Visceris gets crowned. New recruits take nightwatch oath, ghost brings a hand.
Episode 8:Mormont vs wineseller King dies. Eddard gets owned. Arya's first kill. Sansa writes letters. Jon burns the tower. Northern lords gather at winterfell. Dany saves Mirri Maz Dur, who repays favor to Drogo.
Episode 9: Cat negotiates at the twins. Tyrion brings his friends to dad. Sansa pleads for neds life, varys visits ned in jail. Arya learns to live in fleabottom. Jon is given Longclaw. Drogo falls off his horse. Ends with Battle of green fork, and Whispering woods. Ned loses his head.
Episode 10: Bran has a bad dream. Sansa is alone.Dany attempts to save drogo, loses kid. Tyrion is the new hand, Jon stays on the wall. Robb Crowned king in the north. Dany births dragons.
So looks like our guest writers are doing the tournament and vale episodes.
Critical_GeekQuote Reply
I think it would have to be whatever episode has the most and best stuff from Tyrion, perhaps something with Shae.
Kai Alexis PriceQuote Reply
That is a very good break down!!! Very detailed and climatic and appropriate places!
RerQuote Reply
I agree with that. Firefly is one of the best shows ever made, and it shows (indeed like aSoIaF) that you can have gritty realistic characters who make a total fictional universe believable.
KnurkQuote Reply
Very nice recap! I always thought Ned lost his head a bit earlier in the book. Seems a nice cliffhanger for episode 9.
KnurkQuote Reply
I don't know Jane E.'s body of work very well, but I think the assumption people are making is that being a writer means you can only write one way. Part of being a talented writer is the ability to create different voices, characters, moods, etc. As her list of credits suggest, she's obviously considered talented by many people out west, so I would wait to see how her episode turns out before suggesting she will make a quirky Game of Thrones episode.
Also, the series is not entirely without humor, so if she's finds a way to insert the occasionally witty line or humorous undertone, fine.
Second, you seem to be forgetting that the pair in charge (Weiss and Benoiff) are fully aware of what makes the series such quality and are equally aware of how fans perceive the series. If they get a script they don't like or that doesn't match the tone they are trying to establish, they'd ask for a rewrite. The writers are working for them, afterall.
And also, boo on the last season of BSG. In my opinion, the trial was really the highpoint of the series.
Frank JohnsonQuote Reply
So what about this Bryan Cogman for the fourth episode?
His imdb page shows next to nothing….
sjweningsQuote Reply
I agree. Although you forgot (I think) to throw in a couple of major climaxes– Lady gets it. Tyrion wins the duel. Other than that, not bad. :)
Steve BQuote Reply
Apparently he is Benioff's assistant. I believe this would be his first writing credit. Basically David is helping him out a little by giving him this chance.
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
Ok. Either way, I suppose benioff and weiss will be going over the scripts of the other writers and give them the final approval – possibly with some re-writing if they think it's needed. And i do trust those guys, so it'll probably be fine.
sjweningsQuote Reply
GRRM has to write a great Tyrion chapter, amirite? Perhaps Tryion at the Aerie? Or the crossroads tavern scene with Catelyn? Then again it would make all kinds of sense to have him do the season finale, or the episode right before. **SPOILER** Perhaps Ned's "trip to the wall"?
Gregory KeltonQuote Reply
Any chance WiC can edit this for spoiler alert or delete it? I mean come on.
Gregory KeltonQuote Reply
@Rer re:unrealistic fight scenes
You do realize that Buffy was a teen oriented comedy/"horror" show, right? They weren't going for "realistic". I think "realistic" goes out the window with the first Vampire in episode 1, not to mention the teenage "Slayer" with super human powers. I think we all agree that it's campy, but I don't think anyone watching that show should be critiquing the fight sequences for realism.
I also fail to see how a script writer can somehow be bad because of a "badly written fight scene". Scripts don't choreograph every move the actors make, at least not any scripts I've ever seen. As far as I'm aware, this would be the domain the Director, right?
Gregory KeltonQuote Reply
Well said.
Gregory KeltonQuote Reply
Well that part was in reference to the show. I did make mention of other things that reflect on the script. Of course writing for a show like that probably requires the person to write within the confines of the shows outline.
I guess what I'm getting at was i didn't like Buffy, but a pretty small core group loved it.
This is getting off track…
I think she'll be OK as long as she doesn't get too comedic.
RerQuote Reply
Hmm, I'll have to check out which episodes of Buffy she was involved with, because the last season of Buffy was horrible and if she had anything to do with that, then this doesn't bode well.
The Winter RoseQuote Reply
I was expecting GRRM to write the TOJ episode. Maybe they brought a outside person to write that episode so George could give them some inside details on how he wants to scene to go, and then put them under contract to NEVER tell anyone. Someone has to have additional info to accurately portray Lyanna in that scene
CriQuote Reply
Finally I can post again….curious about lack of casting news
Coltaine777Quote Reply
OT
There's a wee GOT discussion brewing over at Gallifreybase…
http://gallifreybase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1…
Hmmmm…..
I like GOT.
But I also like Doctor Who.
But which is better?
There's only one way to find out………….!
Rimshot44Quote Reply
I think George will write whatever episode features Tyrion the most…(his favourite character to write)
Coltaine777Quote Reply
Guess my episode endings would be: 1. Bran Fall 2. Bran Awakes 3. Dany coming into her own 4. Catelyn siezes imp 5. Jaime Attacks 6. Ned sends Beric after the mountain 7. Syrio defends Arya 8. Varys visits Ned in cell. 9. Arya grabbed by Yoren 10. Dany's Dragons
CriQuote Reply
I really didn't mean to seem like I was complaining about her being added as a writer. I just can't resist the urge to bitch about what happened to BSG. Pretty sure I gave up on the series before the episode you mentioned. My problems started with the Scar episode in season 2. That is when the filler episode BS started. Then the start of season 3 completely killed any interest I had left.
So to be clear I don't have any problem with Jane Espenson writing for GoT.
Steven ScottQuote Reply
Wow, who knew so many people followed the WRITERS of specific television episodes? I certainly couldn't tell you who wrote what for any show on TV. I'll have to turn in my geek card. : (
From what people are saying about Espenson's skill with humor I would guess that she'll write the episode with Tyrion at the Eyrie. Greatest example of what a smartass the dwarf can be and the start of his relationship with Bronn.
GRRM for the Tower of Joy or the season finale make the most sense to me.
go_falconsQuote Reply
Yeah, I wouldn't have been surprised if the creators were doing 30% of it with others doing 70%, I was just surprised that the creators were doing 70%. I was also surprised that the other 30% is being split up among three different people instead of one or two.
pualoQuote Reply
Am I the only one who liked season 4 of BSG? I think I liked season 2 the least (Pegasus, etc.), but I liked it all.
pualoQuote Reply
*edit
That is a very good break down!!! Very detailed and climatic at the appropriate places!
RerQuote Reply
No, I also enjoyed S4 of BSG and all the other seasons.
NinepennyQuote Reply
We never saw your complete breakdown for the Season I, FaB.
My first scenario for the episode 6, was exactly as yours, ends with Aemon? Aemon Targaryen?
But, when we heard the news of ten episodes thing, I added three more POV-s in it.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Yup, I'd say discussing the writers is a notable part of many fandoms. For example around half the discussions I've ever had with fellow Whovians has featured discussion of the different writers (e.g. I've always preferred Steven Moffat episodes, felt Russel T. Davies episodes are overly cheesy and am looking most certainly looking forward to the possible Neil Gaiman episode).
NinepennyQuote Reply
Besides actors, I can barely remember producers, let alone writers!
NymeriaQuote Reply
But that's never been what something like Buffy was about. Coming from a fan– of course the special affects and fight scenes are cr*p. The acting is ok to very good. It's the writing that makes that show. The plots were typically cliched, the monster of the week purely a vehicle for other emotional concerns. The shows really about those "other emotional concerns." If you can't get past the icing, so to speak, then I could see how you wouldn't get to the other stuff. Buffy's an acquired taste for sure.
Firefly did a much better job of seemlessly combining overarching plot and emotional core. Which is what most people want when watching a show.
The real point is that Esponsen has shown she has some range. Buffy and Firefly can be incidentally funny but(by many people's standards) ultimately heartwrenching. Same goes for BSG. Same goes for GoT at times. These shows are really the cream of the crop of their genre on TV, which is a good thing. I'm excited by her inclusion personally.
Steve BQuote Reply
No doubt. I'm not real excited about this Jane. I hated the way BSG ended and I was never a big Buffy fan. So that's not good news for me.
AmiQuote Reply
I wish GRRM would commit to give us clues as soon as he learns any casting news…
NymeriaQuote Reply
I kind of skipped stuff that happens in the middle of episodes. Some chapters can be split. There's a little play with some scenes. I noticed there's a small problem around episode 7 with too little and episdode 9. I'll be interested to see how they work it out.
Critical_GeekQuote Reply
I find so called criticism that uses words like "cliche" and "cheesy" to describe everything they don't like or understand to be very trite and shallow.
spacechampionQuote Reply
I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet. But I do believe that these two pictures are pictures of the dead direwolf mother. I'm not sure if there legit.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44313250@N04/4073087…
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44313250@N04/4073087…
But I have noticed that in one picture there is a can of spray paint lying next to it.
What do you guys think?
Could be a great post for WIC, HMR and FAB.
My Watch BeginsQuote Reply
Bit of a change of topic, but I was wondering if you guys could maybe clear something up for me?
All this discussion about Jane E. coming aboard seems to have led to a fair amount of people venting about how badly BSG tanked in its later (or earlier) seasons. I've only seen the first season myself, so no spoilers please, but I was just wondering if the show really did go downhill, or is that just the opinion of one or two people? Personally I loved season 1 for the most part, and was quite looking forward to watching the rest, but all these negative comments are worrisome…so yeah, thoughts on BSG overall? Would you recommend watching the rest, is it any good?
KangaQuote Reply
Old news, I'm afraid, but thanks.
go_falconsQuote Reply
The kingslayer is taking on cthulu over at suvudu.com and is currently winning! Keeps those votes coming.
go_falconsQuote Reply
Yes, those pictures are legit. I posted about them back when they were filming the pilot.
I almost forgot how awesome that wolf looks.
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
ninepenny here is being too soft on the creators of BSG – it always had it moments (and the highs were as high as unlaced coke), but the overall storyline (or "the plan" as they liked to call it) was simply a pile of crap. i do suggest you to watch it till the end though – when it's good, it's one of the best shows ever. and i do have to agree with ninepenny – caprcica has thusfar been enjoyable (altho, i'm starting to get impatient for some more plot development)
Peeter TalvistuQuote Reply
You can probably already tell from my other posts, but I loved the whole thing, and didn't think there were any major holes or inconsistencies like other people seem to be seeing. It all made sense to me and it was great.
pualoQuote Reply
I was a pretty big fan of BSG; it was certainly better than the original Battlestar Galactica. (Yes, I was around for that mess. "Quick, let's take advantage of the Star Wars frenzy!") The 2004 revamp of BSG was pretty much awesome. And this is coming from someone who swore nothing would ever come close to Firefly, which it did, on more than one occasion.
It could be argued BSG went downhill sometime after the third season. The concept of the Final Five (I'm not giving anything away) stretched the realm of believability a little with me, and Starbuck's ultimate fate made little or no sense, but all in all I thought it ended well. Even the last episode, which many lambasted, I found to be satisfying.
For me, Caprica is a different beast altogether. I watched the first three episodes and could not get into it at all. Part of it I think is the whole teenage angst thing that they throw in our faces–something I pretty much despise in any TV show or movie–and the fact that the acting is, in my opinion, atrocious. I get that they are trying to say this is sort of a jumbled mirror of earth cultures, but to me it just comes off cheesy, like beehive hairdos and miniskirts on the original Star Trek. It's like they're not even trying to create a new culture. Everything's just borrowed.
For me Caprica is just a nice robotics theory wrapped inside a big fat soap opera. I've tried to like it. I just can't.
Fire And BloodQuote Reply
I don't really think BSG tanked until the finale. There was a bit of a lull somewhere around season three I think, but I felt like the last season was strong for the most part. The actual ending was a bit "college fiction 101" to me though.
Lord Ned's HeadQuote Reply
They wrote themselves into a corner a bit and in some cases it may have been better for them to have kept some characterisations closer to that of the early seasons but I thoroughly enjoyed it all the way trough and am certainly glad I watched it all. I'm now enjoying Caprica too.
NinepennyQuote Reply
The fourth season is an inconsistent, illogical mess, mostly thanks to the writer's strike. Unfortunately, a lot of the long-term plotlines turned out to be gibberish as well (oh, Starbuck…) and that has to be laid squarely at the feet of the showrunners. Nevertheless, it's worth seeing through to the bitter end. I actually quite like the two final episodes, though they're frustrating in many ways.
PranksterQuote Reply
I personally enjoyed all of BSG, and I know other people who did too, as well as some who thought it went downhill. It depends, really. I just love the characters so much.
SilverstarQuote Reply
Unless the producers have given Espenson the right to introduce new plotlines and alter old ones (Hint: they haven't) the only thing that we need to evaluate her on is the quality of her pacing and dialogues. The comments about illogical storylines are missing the point.
1) Single episode writers aren't in control of the major plot, they are usually told what they need to include.
2) Even if Espenson was the problem with the bad storylines on other shows, she is really just translating known material into a script format, so unless she uncovers some terrible plot-hole in A Game of Thrones that we all missed, I think we're safe.
GeorgeQuote Reply
Is this in response to me?? I said that Firefly clearly went over the head of anyone calling it a cliched story line. The story and universe in which Firefly was set was extremely original and in no way cliched (i.e. bearing no resemblance to other sci-fi like Star Trek et al). Yeah. sure there was humour, but so what? No tired old jokes, some damn good lines!
I also feel that Firefly was aimed at (and appealed) to a slightly older audience than Buffy (thats not to say that Buffy is only for teens tho). But Firefly seemed to appeal to a different kind of audience than Buffy, which had a lot of mainstream viewers. Which is exactly why Fox dropped it. They wanted Whedon to make "another Buffy". Instead he made something with a different appeal, and plenty of new, unusual, and dare-I-say almost avant-garde concepts. No further proof needed that Firefly was most definately cliche. Who knows, had it been it might still be on the air. But I loved it just the way it was.
JG84Quote Reply
On a complete tangent and I apologise but it's been bugging me, is Mark Addy currently in a UK TV advert? I can't even remember what the advert is for (Tesco maybe) which doesn't help but his face keeps popping up and I keep wondering if I'm the only one that's noticed him?
Apologies again for the tangent.
Jackie MacPhersonQuote Reply
Loved it all myself. We burned through the whole 4 seasons. I could see, if I was watching it as it was broadcast, that the ending would be different than expected. Over years, fans make theories,etc. etc. The show has its inconsistencies, and the ending is a leap of faith, but even the fourth season has its amazingly awesome stretches. Well worth watching the whole thing, IMO.
Comparatively, my wife would grumble, but agree. She had more issues with the ending, but still loved the show in general.
Steve BQuote Reply
And go read GRRM's version of the event on his Live Journal!
NymeriaQuote Reply
I probably miss understood. Firefly wasn't cliche. Well, maybe a little bit but not really bad like Josh's earlier shows.
I did kinda wince when Jayne flipped the guy upside down and pile drived him into the ground while holding onto his legs, I know that sounds weird but if you saw the movie you probably know the scene, but other then that it was a good movie and series.
RerQuote Reply
It's got it's ups and downs, like all shows. BSG through all 4 seasons have far more "ups" than anything. It's certainly worth the journey.
K26dpQuote Reply
If your assessment of what happens in the episode is correct, then Espenson seems like a good fit. Does anybody doubt that writing for Fireflu and writing for Tyrion and Bronn would call for a similar voice? Similarly, there is some very dark humor behind the events at Vaes Dothrak involving Danaeyrs and Viserys. Taking into account that she is also capable of writing the complex social dialogue of the scenes in 'Shindig' and that she will be working under D&D for purposes of series consistency, I think this selection should not concern anybody.
KyleQuote Reply
If anything, I think Espenson deserves credit for trying to make plots more logical. Her episodes of BSG show someone trying fairly hard to make sense of the increasingly illogical storylines (she actually came up with a decent reason for why people would follow Baltar even after he sold them out to the Cylons). Presumably that won't be an issue on GoT, though like I said, the show's writers are going to have more to do than people seem to think.
For the record, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some additional minor storylines–the show shouldn't be too tied down by the novels.
PranksterQuote Reply
The problem with BSG in the later seasons is that it stopped trying to be a show about what life would be like for the last remnants of the human race in a fleet of decaying starships and tried to follow the whole Cylon mythology and the history of the 12 colonies. Which would have been OK, except none of it made any sense. They kept building up anticipation and layering coincidences and stuff, but had no way of resolving any of the main plot threads logically.
It's worth watching, but if you're like me you'll feel cheated at the end of it all.
@wabawangaQuote Reply
Thanks so much for all the input! I suppose I eventually would've ended up watching it all either way, I enjoyed the first season too much to just abandon it, but this has been very helpful. I was afraid that I'd watch it and it'd be pretty disappointing, which would be sad, because I really thought they had a good thing going at the end of the first season. I feel much better now, it sounds like for the most part it stayed awesome. I will definitely be finishing up the series as soon as I can ;)
I appreciate all your help! Thanks for your time everyone :)
KangaQuote Reply
Just heard from Bryan Cogman that he's read all the books numerous times, which is good to hear. http://twitter.com/BryanCogman/status/10694120051
NinepennyQuote Reply
Espenson is not my favorite show writer from the Jossverse (Buffy/Angel/Firefly) but she's entirely competent. I like her dialogue and I do think her episodes are well-paced, and she'll do a decent job, plus possibly bring in some fans of other shows.
@bluecanaryQuote Reply
I'm pretty excited about this. She'll write Tyrion and Jaime fabulously.
LizQuote Reply
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