After the reading from A Dance with Dragons George R.R. Martin gave at the Chicago convention, there was time for about 10 minutes of questions, the reader Lady Narcissa reports at Westeros forums. George talked about aging up characters for the series, his favourite characters from the books, and what historical figures influenced their creation. Most interestingly, he also roughly sketched what material the episode he is writing (i.e. episode eight of the series) will be covering! To avoid posting spoiler content, we will not repeat his answer here, but rather invite the readers to follow the link and see the original report. The dicussion of this wee bit of info should keep us busy on this slow Sunday and at the beginning of a new week.
UPDATE: Forum member Trebla reports on some further details about episode 8 they pried out of George at a dinner event.
UPDATE: Lady Narcissa has a detailed report of the question and answer session with GRRM. Below are the parts that relate to Thrones:
He talked about the HBO series and how it is 10 episodes and 1 season right now. Maybe they will move to 2 seasons per book if the series continues but it all depends on how the first season does. HBO does not care about ratings, it cares about subscriptions – so he urged us to subscribe to HBO and to tell them the reason we were subscribing was Game of Thrones. He added that he cannot get anyone a job on the show – he gets lots of letters from people asking him to do this. He knows they are looking for extras with large beards to be on the show but you need to be in Northern Ireland and he has nothing to do with it.
Okay onto questions…
(1) Will we be seeing GRRM as an extras in the show?
There is some chance of this. We need to watch the show closely.(2) How well is the book translating to tv?
GRRM said that they are doing a faithful “adaptation”. But it is an ADAPTATION. With only 10 hours to cover the entire book there is obviously going to be some difference. Some minor characters will not be there. Some will be regulated to background non speaking parts. Some favorite dialogue will be cut. If you liked Jackson’s LOTR movies, you will be happy because it is about in that realm of faithfulness. He is pretty happy with what he has seen so far. But he said its going to get harder as the series progresses as the characters separate more and more and it becomes more complex. But right now they are all just focusing on season 1 by trying to stay faithful to the book and make good television. He’s got a lot of fans but a large book audience is only a drop in the bucket compared to tv audiences.(3) Did it give HBO producers “pause” that the book has two separate plots only vaguely connected?
He wasn’t in the room when the HBO producers were discussing the plot so he has no idea if it gave them…”pause” But he pointed out if it did, they seem to have moved beyond that now.
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130 Comments
1st?
Dr BugQuote Reply
Apparently GRRMs summary was brief one.
!!!Spoiler!!!!
Events take place immediatly after Roberts dead.
It seems that the episode would start Eddard XIV chapter – Arya leaves to meet Syrio, and Eddard leaves to the Throne Room
We have LFs betrayal there.
Then, comes Arya s esacpe and killing of the stableboy.
The events on the Wall: finding dead Othor in the woods.
I suspect that GRRM did not tell everything that would be in EP 8, because we miss hear some Dany (that would be attempt of murder her at the market), and Robb calling his banners in WF (first introduction of Bolton, Karstark, Umber..etc)
I hope someone will come with more details soon.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Of course, thanks to Tower of the Hand web site, and theirs brief summaries of every chapter – I do not know whole GOT by heart. :)
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
@Rabbit: It is possible that they change things around, and it is not certain that things are happening in the exact same order as the book.. We have seen in the pilot script that Danys episodes were moved around, in comparison to the book. Things on the wall or in the Khalasar, doesn't need to be in the exact order as in the book. Perhaps they would need an entire episode on Kings landing and the Coup. But perhaps not. It would be good to have a little from every storyline in each episode.
Peter JørgensenQuote Reply
That possibility exists, but it wolud be a little bit odd to concentrate whole episode around the Coup.
(But indeed the Coup is important), and aroud the dead Othor, (I am not sure at all, it would be the scene of finding Othor – I am guessing it).
But will see.
I admit, I am not patient any more, as I was at the beginning of March. :D
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
As people have said, that seems to leave a lot to pack into episodes 9 and 10. Both battles, the negotiations and alliance with the Freys (which could take a fair bit of an episode by themselves), Ned's execution, Drogo's death, all of the stuff with the maegi and the dragons, the NW getting ready for war, Tywin sending Tyrion to KL, Rob declaring himself king in the north.
Either the last two episodes will be insanely rushed or Season 1 is not ending with the end of Book 1, but maybe earlier (with Ned's death as the S1 cliffhanger?).
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Maybe they plan on having an extended season finale? Also, I'm not as clear on all of the timeline and events as some other people may be, and George wasn't very specific about what is going on in episode 8 (at least, from what was reported), but I assume he may have left out some things, and some of the things that some people are listing for the final two episodes may take place in episode 8? From what episode breakdowns I've seen, most people expect a lot of ground to be covered in every episode.
JackSparrowQuote Reply
@the_Rabbit01…your awesome !
Coltaine777Quote Reply
Oh great, now they're gonna star splitting the show as well as the books? It sounds like everything is too long for its own good. Maybe this is because GRRM is writing Ep. 8, and he inevitably writes more than he is supposed to?
I'd gladly welcome more than 10 episodes, but I hope they can stick with the original plan of covering the whole book.
LexQuote Reply
Thanks :)
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Not necessarily. The Eddard Chapter after Roberts death is the 50th Chapter of 73 (Robert dies in Chapter 48). So – assuming they didn´t shift some POVs back or forth – they ´d have to cover 24 Chapters over the course of 3 Episodes.
Since the Pilot covers something like 11 Chapters i think that should be sufficient.
CookieQuote Reply
Yeah, that sounds good, though some chapters will definitely take more screentime than others. I expect they have it planned out fine, though.
JackSparrowQuote Reply
I doubt they plan on splitting the shortest book between seasons (or at least, they probably wouldn't move much; if they did, it would probably be just because of having a different idea about where it's best to end things).
JackSparrowQuote Reply
Another great report from Trebla thanks to Westeros forum
The most importnat and interesting statement from GRRM: "… His point on the series is that if you loved how Peter Jackson did LOTR, you will like the series. If you were one of the ones that hated it because there was no Tom Bombadill, you won't like the series!…"
So, mine question follows: who is Tom Bombadil of ASOIAF?
Just for the record: I was not among those hurt by the omission of Bombadil, it seemed perfectly normal to me that the Bombadil was cut. The screen is the completely different media.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Ups!
There is still the possibility of GRRM "did not tell everything" at Con.
On the other hand – I agree, too much of it left for the last two episodes.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Tom Bombadil was a pretty cool and mysterious but not much related to the whole story character (aside from supplying the hobbits with the swords, AFAIR). GRRM probably refers to some secondary character who was cut from the story entirely or was combined with other characters. Maybe he refers to one or more of the Stark household characters – like Jory Cassel, septa and such?
AlexQuote Reply
Or simply just that it won't be exactly like the books.
No problem there. Though, i think ASOIAF is better suited for the transfer to the small screen, than LOTR was to the big screen. So i do hope for something maybe a little bit mroe true to the books than LOTR. I really liked those movies, though.
sjweningsQuote Reply
Yeah, I think he's referring to the so-called "purists," the group of LOTR fans who tended to bag on the movies for any and all changes made to the narrative from book to film. George seems to be saying that there will be definite changes from the books, probably simplifications (not surprising, with how complicated the books are).
JackSparrowQuote Reply
Very interesting. I've been wondering for a long time about which characters they will cut. Make no mistake, they will DEFINITELY be cutting some characters, maybe even entire subplots. I've mentioned this a few times, but it seems as though people are in denial.
LexQuote Reply
LOL, I think there will be much bigger cuts than Jory Cassel and Septa Mordane. Those characters probably won't even be named on screen at all.
I'm thinking they will make much larger cuts than that.
LexQuote Reply
I'm calling it right now. Renly will be cut.
He's totally unnecessary to the overall plot, after all. Maybe that's why we haven't heard any Renly casting rumors yet.
LexQuote Reply
As I've said in the past about this issue, I'm guessing they'll be viewing this as historical fiction. At the root, all major actions will happen. The main players will still take their actions, people will die when they're supposed to, battles and marriages will happen as planned.
I hope the first stages of alteration will basically be having some things things happen off-screen, or that we see things that could take place in the world of the books without altering the reality. A prime example are Jaimie and Tyrion's scene in the leaked pilot script, or Ned and Jaimie speaking.
Past that, "minor" events may happen out of order, we may see someone omitted from a scene entirely or relegated to an extra, or as you say whole subplots may be removed without any reference to them. However, as I cautioned earlier, GRRM has created a very complex series of events. Out and out alteration vs. omission may have repercussions down the line. Luckily, the writers have the luxury of being able to ask him if removing a certain bit of information will cause problems down the road.
Something that I still doubt will happen are the alteration of major plot points, as some have suggested. If we actually see HBO keep characters around after they aren't in the book any more, as some have suggested, a lot of fans will go crazy.
@sgnpQuote Reply
Some fans will always go crazy. I've been around a few fan communities for various adaptations over the years, and I think for every single one of them at least a portion of the fans ended up ferociously hating the end product. It was that way for LOTR, for the X-Men movies, for the Spider-Man movies. I remember a dorky fan of Transformers going nuts early on when it was being reported that the makers of the movie wouldn't be using the voice actors from the cartoon, and he talked about how the moviemakers would be ripped apart by the fans (at the time fans on a Transformers messageboard were going nuts about it). Beyond all reason, this guy actually ended up loving the movies. My point is, "the fans will hate it," or "the fans will never let them live it down," or whatever else are never really arguments that seem to have a lot of bearing in the end. The producers for some works will take fan ideas into consideration (though I would hardly say that's always a good policy), but ultimately they have to trust their own instincts. Really, if the producers can't trust their own ability to make the product, it probably can't really be any good, anyway.
JackSparrowQuote Reply
How will we see Shadow babies then? How will this affect Tyrell actions and why they go to Kings Landing? What are Brienne's motivations? What will happen to all the snide jokes about Renly's sexuality? ;) Who the heck is going to tell Gendry about his father???? ARGH!
I have a hard time visualizing them cutting any character because they're all so intertwined…
Christina KolbQuote Reply
Lex, do you really thing that HBO is gonna lose the only homosexual character with some weight in the story? The same channel who did Oz and Six foot under? the same channel who out of the blue got involved Calamity Jane with her lesbian friend? I really doubt it.
DennaiQuote Reply
It sucks that cuts have to be made.
As we all, know, ASOIAF is not all about the major events and characters. Yes, Tyrion is badass, yes, Ned's execution was WTF, yes, the Red Wedding was shattering, yes, we all love the Hound, yes, the Wall is cool, etc.
But there's also the small exchanges, the seemingly tiny details that later make you go "Aaaah, so that's it!". There's the lore with its songs, tales, heroes of ages past. There's the flashbacks. All these are a major contribution to the books' greatness. And if some of them don't get transferred to the small screen, a lot of the magic will be lost.
I just hope that the writers choose wisely what not to include.
LaughingSkullQuote Reply
I agree. The importance of Bombadil to the major plot in LOTR was minor. I could guess that GRRM is telling us that all major players are staying in, and all major plots also.
Renly – I think he is too important, to be cut out.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Does everyone think that GRRM meant a specific character, or characters, would be cut from teh HBO show?
"If you were one of the ones that hated it because there was no Tom Bombadill, you won't like the series!…"
Perhaps he simply means that the show will not be a word-for-word depiction of the books? When watching a book adaptation on screen, people have a tendency to go, "That's not how it happened!" Or " they left So-and-So out of that scene" or even, "that doesn't happen until…."
I'm guessing if you're one of those people, he means you wont like the series. Taking Tom Bombadil out didnt make Frodo any less the hero ^^
@RahBurQuote Reply
Renly is in very few scenes as it is, and no scenes at all that deal outright with his homosexuality / bisexuality.
LexQuote Reply
Kind of off topic, but I have also been thinking about the "shocking" events in the books, especially regarding the deaths of major characters…
…and I just don't think they'll be AS shocking on TV. Almost every major HBO series kills of major characters, even central ones. Some things will still be INSANE (i.e. Red Wedding, anyone?), but others may not be nearly as shocking as when we first read them in the books (i.e. Ned).
LexQuote Reply
hmm… please dont read my comment thinking I meant any offense by it. reading it again, myself, I think it can come off as a bit crass. = /
@RahBurQuote Reply
For example, The Sopranos and The Wire kill off major characters ALL THE TIME! It's a surprise, but never as shocking as when reading aSoIaF.
Why is that, I wonder? Is it because we grow more attached to characters we read about (spending so much time with them in our heads) than when we're simply watching actors on TV?
LexQuote Reply
I think that's exactly it – that we develop more of a connection to characters we read about, as we are given an opportunity to get into the characters head, know their thoughts, motives, etc, details that you simply cannot get from watching an actor, even a very *good* actor.
@RahBurQuote Reply
I think what you have to look at is, does cutting this character make it easier to tell the story? Or harder? I think in Renly's case cutting him would make it harder as you would need to create a new set of circumstances for Brienne to be introduced, for Stannis to feel slighted, for Melisandre to show off her power, for the Tyrells to be drawn into the politics, etc.
So I don't think he will be cut. Some have suggested he might not get introduced until the start of season 2. That I could see happening. But cutting him entirely? It would create more problems than it would solve.
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
Just remember folks– the TV show is just an adaptation of the real deal… namely, the BOOKS. The show may be great, or the show may suck, or the show will be different, or not as complex, or it'll have better fight scenes or worse ones, or a soundtrack, or good CGI, etc etc but the books will always be the books, and they will always be my first love. And if you think about it, it'll probably be that way for most of you who came to the books first.
It's definitely that way with LOTR for me. The movies are great. But they didn't replace to the books for me, they COMPLIMENTED them.
Steve BQuote Reply
The show is an adaptation of books? Wth are you talking about?
P.S. Bombadil was wacked & a dirty hippie. I have no idea why they wrote him in the books since he wasn't in the movie.
SteveQuote Reply
Everyone gets one vote?
Lord Beric is sooooo out. Maybe even unCat.
Hodor
HodorQuote Reply
We haven't heard casting rumors for anyone beyond the pilot. Renly certainly may be cut, though I hope not. It's almost impossible at this point to anticipate how much the show might diverge from the books. I suppose George must know what the story looks like for the first seven episodes, at least in some form (all of the scripts may not be finished yet, but they must at least be sketched out), so that his episode fits in with the rest of it (of course, his episode was probably also sketched out by the producers before being handed over to him). The first episode script that leaked online seemed pretty faithful to the book, and would seem to suggest that changes would involve glossing over of smaller details, and not semi-large plot points like Renly; removing him would definitely require some changes to book 2.
JackSparrowQuote Reply
I don't believe we're getting more than one to three seasons, so I'd go radical and cut Bran's (yes, his chapters were a bit boring) but also Jon's and Dany's (*le gasp*). There's no point bringing along the threat of the Others or the preparations for the return of the Targs, because they would just confuse us as we won't be seeing where they're leading to. So I'd concentrate on the civil war on Westeros, give it full attention and make it as complex and intriguing as it is in the books. Less is more.
NemoQuote Reply
blasphemy
RASQuote Reply
I don't think Renly's role in GoT is at all necessary to the plot. It seems to me that Renly's main role in GoT is that he was part of the council… The writers may very well choose to focus on Varys and Littlefinger when it comes to the council scenes, because they are more important.
In season two, however, Renly will be very important. His absence in season one could easily be explained by stating that he was ruling at Storm's End at the time, and then the writers could introduce him in season two at the same time that they introduce Stannis.
DamphairQuote Reply
More details on Episode 8 .
Thanks to Trebla and Westeros.org.
SPOILER!!!!
So, as far we know by now the episode 8 will contain
- LFs betrayal
- Aryas escape
- "dead Othor behind the Wall"
- Dothraki and the Lamb man
The RabbitQuote Reply
While Renly isn't an enduring character in the series, he vacillates between highly-amusing and larger-than-life. The (brief) scene between Renly & Ned before the coup is ESSENTIAL imo. Ned is given the option of taking power by force and turns it down…given his fate, this is just too juicy.
I would also want him present for S1 due to his role in the Arya-Sansa-Joffrey "inquisition" — he repeatedly makes fun of Joffrey, and is then verbally thrown-out by Robert….granted, another person could fill Renly's role here, but clearly it would be optimal to just have Renly cast for a mid-S1 appearance.
AntQuote Reply
What about the Onion Knight? Do we really need him?
kochujangQuote Reply
"The (brief) scene between Renly & Ned before the coup is ESSENTIAL imo. Ned is given the option of taking power by force and turns it down…given his fate, this is just too juicy. "
Right on. It's one of the pivotal moments in the story, when Ned bending just a wee bit at that very moment could have saved so much tragedy. But he's unable to bend so far, and purely for the reason of a tender heart, basically.
Renly will definitely be in, for this reason if nothing else, IMO.
@westerosorgQuote Reply
out of curiosity, what POV would y'all cut? like which one is the least integral to you and your enjoyment of the series and probably of the show?
for me they could gut all the mystical journey of bran stuff. those were my most snoozed through chapters.
educatedponyQuote Reply
Of couse we do :) He's one of my fav POV!
Ok, that's not why we need him, but in the 2° season we'll need to see Stannis and Melisandre through someone's eyes, someone who expresses his doubts about Melisandre's plans, I think :-)
Laura LuchettiQuote Reply
For the greater good of the show i would cut Bran's journey too(or give it much less screen time) Because ordinary audience of the show will probably hate those scenes. In general, people really don't like childish and cheesy things in serious dramas and they don't attach to those characters. But no matter what we say here, we won't change anything, so let's wait and we will see someday.
MoldaQuote Reply
Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions? They definitely fall in the "Tom Bombadil" class of characters: performing semi-important plot points that could just as easily be covered by random, distasteful sellswords.
go_falconsQuote Reply
Huh? Wiff of sarcasm?
Steve BQuote Reply
I also found Brans POV the more snoozeworthy but still we dont know their importance leading up to the finale. The ending with the creature riding the moose intrigued me so lets wait on this judgement until it all plays out.
covenantQuote Reply
Without Renly, Brienne's character doesn't make sense.
Dennis BrennanQuote Reply
- Pyp and Grenn
- Some of the supernumerary members of Gregor's band
- The mountain clansmen who have named speaking roles (other than Shagga, who is too droll to die)
- Chataya and Alayaya
- Lancel Lannister
- Most of the Kettleblacks
- Most of the less important Freys
- Kevan Lannister, unless he turns out to be much more important in the later books
- At least some of the Brotherhood Without Banners- but I'm not sure it'd be possible to cut Lord Beric himself without doing too much violence to the story
- Hot Pie (a shame– it'd be nice to have at least one character with Flea Bottom origins)
- Jory Cassel and Septa Mordane, as others have pointed out
- Old Nan
- The Karstarks and Manderlys (at least as named characters with lines)
- Myrcella Baratheon (yes, I know that this changes a lot of the Dorne stuff, but that whole plot may have been something of a blind alley anyway). One could then lose some of the Martell girls, and Darkstar, and Ateo Hotah, and Arys Oakheart
- Boros Blount. Just combine him with one of the thugs in Gregor Clegane's band.
Dennis BrennanQuote Reply
Bran may still turn out kick-ass
covenantQuote Reply
Icky poo poo Nemo.
entropyQuote Reply
I always found Sansa's chapters to be kinda a drag. Always compared her actions to Arya's and Sansa always came up lacking. But we all know GRRM. If Sansa lives she will have a turningpoint where we all will love her…..just as Arya, if she lives, may have a turningpoint where we….well loves her a teenywheeny bit less.Thats the mayor point about GRRM's books…. The dynamics. You never know what will happen and your allies and loves always change from chapter to chapter. I mean Jaime and the Hound did far from start out as favourites in my book. I hope the series can pinpoint this….the twists and turns. It really sums up to depending upon really good acting.
covenantQuote Reply
Maybe because fantasy books rarely kill off main characters.
entropyQuote Reply
I know a quick cut that can be made and from this board too, call forth the King's Justice and remove this traitor's (Nemo's) head.
TysnowQuote Reply
Lol, but it's useless, coz I'd be back anyway!
Un-NemoQuote Reply
Two words: Jojen and Meera (if anyone is Tom Bombadil in ASOIF, it's Jojen). They're important, but their roles could easily be assumed by Osha, especially if Rickon is taken out of the picture (which seems likely).
I actually like their chapters more than most readers, but they're out.
Maxwell JamesQuote Reply
Amory Lorch as a separate one of House Lannister's foragers. No need to have him and Ser Gregor both.
KyleQuote Reply
But I disagree about Pyp and Grenn. Jon's story needs a cast of characters, not just the commander's of the watch. I do agree that there will need to be a reduction in the number of named/familiar members of the Night's Watch, but Jon needs friends in order to make his own journey.
KyleQuote Reply
Well, I think the comparable issue here is how they play with the centrality of the characters. If Tony Soprano had died at the end of the first season, making the rest of the series about how his wife tries to be a crime boss, I think it would have been pretty shocking.
KyleQuote Reply
I for one think Bran is the one who will drive the magical aspects of the story forward in the next book, and his dreams makes me believe he is one of the major characters. And Speaking of Jojen and Meera, they probably hold a/the key to Jon's parents. After all, their father was with Eddard in Dorne.
(I think we've already had the turning point for Sansa, and from she'll be growing)
Bjørn SørlienQuote Reply
That depends. Jojen and Meera serve and important purpose in telling Bran important stories about his families past. Of course, those stories could also be told in flashbacks that are not anchored to any particular characters in the story.
I always wondered about Rickon, though. He clearly hasn't served a purpose, yet. Even so, I have to wonder if he will, sometime later.
KyleQuote Reply
Agree with you Kyle.
Jon must have someone of his age other than Sam.
I would say that Pyp or Grenn are in.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
I think you've all missed the point here, grrm hasn't said that the changes will be the same type that PJ did in LOTR, but that writers and producers have taken liberty to INTERPRET the books their own way, meaning that some changes will be made, but not neccessarily the mayor ones (we know that characters are older in series, that there are extra scenes and new characters, but there dosen't have to be a Tom Bombadil or one such in GOT, and I don't believe therre will be any). I don't think that any mayor character or plotlines will be cut (that includes Davos (although i'm hoping he would be, I hate Davos), Renly, and like).
trlababalaneQuote Reply
Be that as it may, I will be happy if it's done great. Because point of succesful INTERPRETATION is that they can take the book and do as they wish with it without jeopardazing the integrity of the source material. It's what ROME did marvelously. If they do withh ASOIAF what thay did with Rome, it will be great even with mayor changes because the characteres and the feel of the series will remain faithful to the book even if they don't look, or do exactly the same things. Thats what Jackson did terribly with LOTR, he twisted and turned characters upside down, making them all angsty and melancholic, ruining most of them in process, adding Tolkiens phrases on completely wrong places from completely wrtong people, which wouldn't have bother me if it didn't feel artificial. The good interpretation is why I like David Lynch Dune more than I like later miniseries – When you Look at DL's interpretation, you feel the characters and places as they are in the books even though they do completely different things – they feel authentic.
trlababalaneQuote Reply
That's what i'd like GOT to be (not like Dune, i would like it to follow source material, but a successful interpretation)… not only court intrigue, but also the wall and dany and others and bran- the characters who would feel as they do in the books, even though they don't do exactly the same things and not everyone is present.
trlababalaneQuote Reply
I know I am about to start a war- but here goes: Brienne is a Bombadil if ever there was one. She won't be cut, for reasons having to do with demographic appeal and cultural politics, but she should be.
I know she doesn't show up until season 2, but if they do cut Renly, there goes her only real link to major plot events. Jaime can get to King's Landing all by himself. Maybe GRRM has big plans for her, but come on, her POV in AFFC was a Jordan-esque waste of trees.
KurtQuote Reply
With regard to cutting, or shortening Bran's chapters… I think we ought to remember that the book, and the series are different media. Visualization of Bran's wolf/crow dreams, if done well, could be insanely cool. There is some pretty surreal content in those chapters. I think sacrificing Bran's dream sequences, even though they are not essential to the plot of season 1, would forsake the opportunity for some crazy Darren Aronofsky style scenes.
Andrew ClaytonQuote Reply
This is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned people suggesting cuts that would drastically alter the rest of the books. I honestly believe Tom Bombadil was mentioned because it was a self-contained section that could be lifted out without causing too many ripples in the rest of the story.
@sgnpQuote Reply
Honestly, we already may have a bit of an indication of what he's talking about with regard to the characters who were relegated to "featured extra" status in the pilot. The big example I can think of is Jory. It doesn't mean that he won't show up in a later episode as a more major player, but I expect we'll see a lot of things reduced rather than whole parts ripped out.
@sgnpQuote Reply
Heh, I totally missed this when I made my statement above. What we've got to go on right now is what HBO has already done, and all of our interpretations of what GRRM said. Those of us who think the writers are going to try to keep the story on the same path as the books think that the Tom Bombadil statement was made to indicate that some self-contained sections will be removed. People who have advocated that we should buckle down for major alterations are interpreting the Tom Bombadil statement to mean that a characters/sections beloved by fans are going to be removed.
I think both of these are valid interpretations, so we won't know for sure until something actually happens. Once it does, I'll move it into my "HBO knows what they're doing" folder. Until then, I'm sticking with what I've already seen them do, which goes to the "non-essential" interpretation.
@sgnpQuote Reply
I guess we all had better tread lightly, so as to avoid the hemp necktie.
TysnowQuote Reply
Concerning viewing of the HBO-television series aGoT
I would really like to ask for a new thread or perhaps a vote concerning the viewingpossibilites due to which country you live in.
Me myself Im from Sweden and networks here often buy HBO-series but perhaps 1-1 1/2 season in. Mainstream series are bought earlier like Lost, 24 or Desperate Housewives.
I must confess that i follow many of my favourite series via downloading them from my memberhip-torrent-site. Such as Sons of Anarchy, The Pacific, The Simpsons, Family Guy, Real Time With Bill Maher, The Daily Show and The Colbert Report. (The latter three arent even broadcasted here)
Thois gives me a moment of pause. The series just mentioned; I dont give a rats ass about them. I dont mind leeching them for free. When it comes to aGoT its different though; I would really like to pitch in to the series making it into a second seson..
Im almost a bit pissed off about the mayor networks not making an effort to make money out of people like me who'd like to pay for this but who dont live in the US.
Thankful for feedback
covenantQuote Reply
Jaime would not be nearly as compelling a character without a Brienne to play off of.
Maxwell JamesQuote Reply
Just found , posted March 16, revised April14.
Late June. Northen Ireland and MOROCCO!
Could we take this announcement as confirmation for re-shooting in Morocco?
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
somtehing happened while I was posting. sorry does not look nice, but link works ;)
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
All of bloodriders blended together in my head. Same with Dany's hand maids. I'm not seeing them getting names. All that matters is that Qotho looks like a bad-ass so it's cooler when Mormont cuts him down.
Isaac MoyerQuote Reply
Make sure to buy the DVD's once they come out. It may even be more important that ratings/subscriptions numbers.
Hear Me RoarQuote Reply
Interesting, anyone with access to that?
Hear Me RoarQuote Reply
I'm hoping they will load the episodes to iTunes.
QueenBeeQuote Reply
It is again US based site.
Somehow I think it is the call for the crew.
But, the most important thing of that announcement is that is the first time somebody is actually telling that the shoothing will take place in Morocco.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
I wouldn't be too concerned. Per TOTH, GRRM's description includes the events of all of four chapters (50-53 to be precise).
It's fair to say that he's leaving some things out. There are 73 chapters in the book, so that comes to an average of 7.3 per episode. If his script even covers 7 chapters, that'll leave 17 to be covered in the final two episodes, some of which are quite short. That seems pretty manageable to me.
Maxwell JamesQuote Reply
If one character had to get cut in order to make the show more managable length, I would have to agree that it's Brienne.
shadallionQuote Reply
I think the major question is what will be her long term purpose. Only Martin knows that. In CoK she's not essential, I suppose, but she's definitely the major foil to Catelyn and Jaime. Same goes for her role in SoS re: Jaime. She's a real catalyst for change with him. Now, I happen to like Brienne, but regardless, she seems pretty essential to Jaime's character, and Catelyn in her own way too. IMO anyways.
As for her stuff in AFFC, well, that could get trimmed, no doubt, but I can only assume it's all going somewhere very important in the end re: Sansa, the Hound, Catelyn, etc. Only Martin knows, but he hasn't led us a wild goose chase before. The problem is, we're only half way there right now, so it's hard to tell.
Steve BQuote Reply
Lady Narcissa just posted on Westeros.org – forums more details on GRRMs answer on that subject.
I think that the things would be more clear now.
I'll try to copy/paste it here.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Lady Narcissa just posted on Westeros.org – forums more details on GRRMs answer on that subject.
I think that the things would be more clear now.
I'll try to copy/paste it here.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Lady Narcissa just posted on Westeros.org – forums more details on GRRMs answer on that subject.
I think that the things would be more clear now.
I'll try to copy/paste it here.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
(2) How well is the book translating to tv?
GRRM said that they are doing a faithful "adaptation". But it is an ADAPTATION. With only 10 hours to cover the entire book there is obviously going to be some difference. Some minor characters will not be there. Some will be regulated to background non speaking parts. Some favorite dialogue will be cut. If you liked Jackson's LOTR movies, you will be happy because it is about in that realm of faithfulness. He is pretty happy with what he has seen so far. But he said its going to get harder as the series progresses as the characters separate more and more and it becomes more complex. But right now they are all just focusing on season 1 by trying to stay faithful to the book and make good television. He's got a lot of fans but a large book audience is only a drop in the bucket compared to tv audiences.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Clap Clap Well Done. :)____And although I may be be-headed as well, I kind of agree with you on the Dany thing…______
Phoenix_tornQuote Reply
You are amazing at finding things. I salute you!
Phoenix_tornQuote Reply
While I would hate to see this happen, you actually have pretty reasonable idea there. I still hope it doesn't happen, tho. ;P
LaurenQuote Reply
Oh so cut out the most interesting parts…anyways it's too late for that, the prologue has already been shot.
dizzy34Quote Reply
I think only GRRM can confirm that. It really depends on where he is going with her. (spoiler) if in fact she's still alive.
dizzy34Quote Reply
I think only GRRM can confirm that. It really depends on where he is going with her. (spoiler) if in fact she's still alive.
dizzy34Quote Reply
The dream sequences are a great point. Not only could they be really cool, but they should take a lot fewer minutes per show than they did pages per book, since showing an audience a surreal sequence of images goes a lot faster than describing it. Bran's first weird dream is basically an entire chapter, but my guess is it takes a couple minutes on-screen. Before this, he's the POV for the execution scene and of course "the things I do for love," which are both in the pilot. Afterward, he's our eyes and ears at Winterfell. Granted, in the latter capacity that might be something they could shift more towards Robb until he goes off to war, but I really don't see them actually cutting any of the stuff that happens in Bran's chapters in AGoT. And past that, why even think about it yet?
DemokritosQuote Reply
What do you think are we gonna see any flashbacks?
At least those described in the books.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Lord of the Rings is around 400 pages longer than GoT, depending on the edition. The theatrical movie was 10 hrs and the extended edition clocked in at almost 11.5 hrs, so Games will definitely cover more of the book than LOTR especially if the episodes clock around and hour or longer. I am hoping for like a 1.5 hour pilot and 2 hr season finale.
TysnowQuote Reply
I sort of agree too. Doing so would definitely made it more of a fictional historical drama and less of a fantasy (i.e. more of a sure-fire hit akin to The Tudors and less likely to flop like Legend of the Seeker).
furreverQuote Reply
(2) How well is the book translating to tv?
GRRM said that they are doing a faithful "adaptation". But it is an ADAPTATION. With only 10 hours to cover the entire book there is obviously going to be some difference. Some minor characters will not be there. Some will be regulated to background non speaking parts. Some favorite dialogue will be cut. If you liked Jackson's LOTR movies, you will be happy because it is about in that realm of faithfulness. He is pretty happy with what he has seen so far. But he said its going to get harder as the series progresses as the characters separate more and more and it becomes more complex. But right now they are all just focusing on season 1 by trying to stay faithful to the book and make good television. He's got a lot of fans but a large book audience is only a drop in the bucket compared to tv audiences.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
George won't kill her off, not before the end of the series at any rate. At his age, he's deat with enough women to understand the shit-storm he'd be walking into if he did- at least from a dedicated contingent of his his female readers. At all his future appearences, he'd be pelted with sensible shoes.
KurtQuote Reply
not at all saying I want tht to happen. It just seems the easiest way to stream-line it if it was absolutely needed.
Phoenix_tornQuote Reply
The comment about HBO subscriptions worries me. Since I'm planning on being overseas (with Iceland's cooperation), the only way I can watch is through the internet, whether on Itunes or Torrent. I thought I had heard that HBO realized their mistake with canceling Rome after DVD sales were so good, but this seems like all the other media out there won't matter.
IF it gets a second season, I'm stoked about the idea of longer seasons or 2 seasons per book… of course this gives Martin more breathing room to finish quickly ;)
Christina KolbQuote Reply
I'm going to say something here. Coming as someone who auditioned for the role of jon snow and was called back multiple times meaning I read the entire script for the pilot episode, can tell you from what i've seen, that they are being very careful and all there realy cutting is just a lot of exposition from the books. For example Jon and Ben don't talk about daren targaryen before they fight over jon's idea of going to the night's watch. All the minor characters were also in the script. Like meryn trant, Jory Cassel, Boros Blount some of course didn't have speaking parts but they were specifically named. So I think there going to be alot more faithful then people are thinking. O and stop saying that they are going to cut Renly. Think about he is VERY important to the plot, and his death sets in motion alot of important events.
N/AQuote Reply
I agree, I am really worried that they are going to take out a lot of what makes the books so great..I know they have to and im fine with that, but there is SO much in those books…I just hope they do it "right" haha, as in right in my books..
kind of unfair I suppose, but I love these books so much,
everything is looking pretty good so far tho..:D
pretty pumped.
AislinnQuote Reply
I don't think you really free up any time by cutting them, though. They never really sidetrack the plot significantly that I recall. Might be a couple throwaway scenes, but nothing major.
I don't really think they could cut any actual POVs. Perhaps some of the stuff in AFfC could be trimmed, but probably not hacked out entirely, and it's too soon to tell anyway.
Personally my least favorite POV is Sansa, but I don't think they could cut her, nor would I want them to: part of the fun of the series is going to be seeing what things, through acting etc., hit me differently than they did in the books. I'm hoping Sophie Turner (and the writers, directors, etc.) deliver.
I DO expect some minor characters to get cut, especially in situations where there are several who occupy roughly the same role. Either they'll merge those into one, or keep them all, but with only one as a speaking role. And of course a lot (if not all) of the really minor one-line/mentioned in passing characters will be cut.
DemokritosQuote Reply
Seems like it would depend on whether they're more pressed for time or money. Flashbacks would most likely take less time than verbal reminiscing, as well as keeping things more exciting, but they'd also cost more. There might also be cases where HBO or George decides a visual flashback couldn't work (I.e. if there's some detail they couldn't avoid showing which would spoil something, or they just want to keep things more mysterious).
DemokritosQuote Reply
2 seasons per book seems unlikely. The actors, especially the kids, would probably age a bit much, and we'd be looking at a 13 season show for them to finish it all. As far as I know, the longest running HBO drama was 6 seasons, so that'd put finishing the series into the realm of the absurdly unlikely. I do hope they adjust season length roughly in proportion to book length, though. I don't think they could do ASoS justice with only ten episodes.
DemokritosQuote Reply
I'm so frustrated that much of Western Europe does not have an agreement with HBO. I'm in Denmark and I wish they would open for subscriptions to watch the show online once it airs. Can't believe I'll have to wait (and wait and WAIT) for the DVDs …
KatQuote Reply
I don'tthink they well cut as much as you guys are saying imo
Jon SnowQuote Reply
dolorus edd = tom bombadil
jojoziggyQuote Reply
CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM is producing an eighth season, ENTOURAGE is on its seventh and SEX AND THE CITY went for six seasons. THE SOPRANOS also went six, but one of those was double-length (apparently because if they had made seven seperate seasons this would have involved expensive salary renegotiations).
Notably, these are all amongst HBO's lower-budgeted shows though.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Indeed. A Tower of Joy flashback could wreck the Jon parentage theory (one way or the other) right there, although you could have a dreamy scene based on Ned's dream (maybe segueing from the charging knights outside to a close-up of Lyanna's face saying, "Promise me," and then back again or something).
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
The pilot is only 60 minutes at the moment, but it isn't impossible they will extend it later and shoot more material for it. The only problem with this is that "The things I do for love," is a very logical end-point, and there isn't any more material from the book to push into the episode to make it longer without resorting to padding and creating new material (and as it stands they've already brought forward Dany's second chapter and added in some new material).
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Probably true, though I weep to admit it.
KyleQuote Reply
Well, he's not that big of a deal in book 1. Book 1's Jon sections should deal mainly with Jon's interactions with his contemporaries, the Old Bear, and Aemon. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Dolorous Ed in adaptations of book 2-3.
world_dancerQuote Reply
i can see people who havnt read the books not appreciating bran or his dream scenes.
whilst i want the show to stay true to the books, it still has to work for tv, we will always have the books, our first love, but if it dosnt translate well to tv we may not have future series to enjoy…
Gaz Quote Reply
Nah… Tom bombadil took up a portion of the books in a little side-story, and he was just plain weird – didn't really fit in, IMO.
While Edd, just tags along and makes his depressingly funny remarks for a little comic relief. I think he'll be in – at least, you can't really compare them.
sjweningsQuote Reply
Egads, you can see me right now? I just came out of the shower. Yes, I haven't read the books. But I do love bran, as it helps the digestive process. My friend's kids told me about the books, they said they don't remember the dream scenes except a crow was involved, because they read those books so long ago.
Ah well, I don't know what they are are going to do there, I hope nothing too pretentious.
Personally, I think that most of the books is actually Bran's dream. At the very end, the evil witch will be about to kill Dany and marry her boyfriend, when all the sudden Bran will wake up.. "and you were there, and you were there…" Oh, it was all just a bad dream, and look, his legs are fine.
Because that was the saddest thing, Bran falling. Really. After that, the flaying was like… nothin'
SteveQuote Reply
Sorry if someone posted this already but how would one tell HBO; "I signed up cause of Thrones."? The AT&T lady really doesnt give ya that option?
I seriously did resign up for HBO cause of this announcement and would love to express that to the powers that be.
@mean_toesQuote Reply
Good question and one HBO answers on their website: http://www.hbo.com/#/about/faqs/general-informati…
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
*SPOILERS*
Who I think can be cut or reduced:
Bronn – I think he'll be relegated to a miscellaneous sellsword Tyrion befriends on the way to the vale and disappear soon after the first battle to be replaced by a nameless steward/bodyguard for the later seasons. He's just not that important outside of that one fight.
Barristan Selmy – As great a character as he is, he doesn't do much to advance the plot even into the later books. He's not necessary for the show.
Other Kingsguard – They'll mostly be nameless or at least non-speaking but recognizable
Alliser Thorne – He provides some filler in the first book but nothing integral to the plot at least not until the election. Jon can be bullied by Gren and Pyp without his help.
Janos Slynt – Non-speaking role I think.
NiceShotQuote Reply
Every one is talking about how much is going to be cut, but I honestly think that this series well be pretty faithful. I don't think much well be left out, and cutting Renly would be a horrible idea. He sets in to motion some major events involving the civil war.
my watch beginsQuote Reply
If it's LotR level of faithful, I'll be happy.
I mainly want the characters on screen to be true to the book. If things are changed or some characters are more minor than they were, I'll live. And if there are non-book scenes that are true to character as an expression of something that was previously only in a character's thoughts, I'll be happy.
world_dancerQuote Reply
Exactly. That scene defined who Ned was. It's necessary not so much for Renly but for Ned.
Jarred MelanconQuote Reply
Exactly. Renly is too important and affects too many subplots with just his general existence. He's a foil for Stannis not to mention Brienne and Cat. They need also need the scene with him and Ned so I'm very confident Renly is sticking around.
Jarred MelanconQuote Reply
Or you could take the route I plan to take:
(1) Sign up for HBO the week before GoT premiere
(2) Cancel the week after the season finale
(3) Repeat as necessary for every season thereafter
That should get the message through.
go_falconsQuote Reply
Probably true, though I weep to admit it.
SarahQuote Reply