George R. R. Martin has a new blog post up and informs us that he has handed in the first draft of his script of episode eight. He notes it is likely too long and too expensive, both problems that will be addressed in rewrites.
It’s May, it’s May, hurray.
What’s more, I actually met a deadline. I turned in the first draft of my script for episode eight of A GAME OF THRONES to David and Dan on the day it was due. Today, as it happens.
It’s too long and too expensive, but that’s true of every first draft teleplay and screenplay that I ever wrote. I’ve titled it “The Pointy End,” though I don’t know if that will endure. Last I heard, it hadn’t been decided whether we’d be using episode titles or not.
One monkey off my back. At least until it’s time for rewrites, and the second draft.
Other monkeys are still frolicking up there, including Kong. He was a king in his world, but we’ll teach him fear…
George goes on to add, in the comments, some news that will be of interest to Esme Bianco fans (and it also gives us an excuse to post an Esme picture).
So far the only character added who was not in the books is Ros, the Red-Headed Whore, who has a scene with Tyrion in the pilot.
I gather she may be back in later episodes as well.
But hey, I liked Ros, the Red-Headed Whore. Especially after I met Esme Bianco, who plays her.
Maybe I’ll add her to the books…
Winter Is Coming: Glad to hear that the script is done. The first draft anyway. Those worried that the whole production would be put on hold while they waited for George to finish his script can breathe easy. Just kidding. Sort of.
Also I’m excited to hear that Esme may be back in later episodes. Undoubtedly this info will provide fuel to those in the “replace Shae with Ros” camp. I still don’t think that would be a good idea. I think there is enough room in this series for two whores. ;)
UPDATE: GRRM continues on in the comment section with this informative comment.
I really don’t think the “almost unrecognizable plot” thing is anything you need fear on this project.
The first season, at least, will hew quite close to the books, from what I have seen.
Admittedly, it will grow harder to remain faithful in later seasons, if the series is renewed. As the books progress and the original characters scatter, more and more secondary and tertiary characters become involved, more and more settings are seen, and the “butterfly effect” comes into play… whereas what seems like a small and innocous change in season one or two turns out to have major consequences in season five, when the minor character who was changed/ cut in season one is supposed to push to the fore and play a significant role.
No one is saying it will be easy. But the intent is there.
But hey, David and Dan knew the job was dangerous when they took it.
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79 Comments
Yea! Now pile drive that King Kong Monkey into next week.
dizzy34Quote Reply
I hope he really does sneak Ros into the books somehow, in a minor, throw-away mention. That would be highly amusing.
@bluecanaryQuote Reply
Paul, I don't think there is anything explicit. Just saying that those who were already hoping or speculating it might happen could look at this, coupled with the fact that George didn't mention Shae as one of the audition tapes he was viewing, and maybe start thinking there is a chance of it happening.
I don't think it will though. At least, I hope it won't.
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
I personally love it when different media of the same story throw homages to each other. I would be ecstatic to see a Ros mention somewhere. Heh maybe one of the Black Bros could even refer to Melisandre as "That Red-headed whore!".
Lord Ned's HeadQuote Reply
Well, yeah, I mean do you realize how many other characters he didn't mention?
Plus, the figurine he sent her was a Lannister Lady in Waiting, not Shae. If you want to go all clue-crazy, that's something to think about. I know there are other people who are like "they-might-mash-them-up" and all that, but that's one of those odd, unnecessary warps that keep floating around.
Trust me, no one would like to see her get a much larger role more than me, but the fact that he's talking about maybe writing Ros in says to *me* that he still thinks of Esme as that character.
paulgudeQuote Reply
A "Do you remember me, Tyrion?" moment would be perfect.
paulgudeQuote Reply
my hunch on cross-pollenation of characters would be that it would cheapen the sacred text, so to speak. crossing the line between homage and making something topical out of something GRRM is trying to put on a level with the greatest fantasies of all time.
but i could have that all wrong. besides, there will be a dozen other "ros" moments that benioff and weiss come up with during this journey, could you imagine the back-patting that would end up going on if we held that same standard every time something clever came from the series?
just sayin'.
…ryan
Ryan DunnQuote Reply
That said… @Lordnedshead's idea would be a rather awesome way to handle it if indeed GRRM threw HBO kudos in his next book.
…ryan
Ryan DunnQuote Reply
I don't read from what he said there that Ros will replace Shae at all. Still, people are prone to read a lot into things I suppose.
paulgudeQuote Reply
GRRM added a few words on his episode 8:
"…Since an hour long show on HBO can actually run an hour, instead of 46 minutes as on the CBS shows I worked on in the 80s and 90s, the draft is only a little long.
It probably is too expensive, though. Too many characters, too many settings, too many SFX shots. What meathead wrote this novel, anyway?…"
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Shae is Shae and Ros is Ros. The relationship Ros and Tyrion have in that first scene (such as that it can be called a "relationship") seems quite different than the relationship Shae and Tyrion has.
BrudeQuote Reply
Very interesting.
LexQuote Reply
Sounds really great but….
….aww, man, I was really hoping "Game of Thrones" would have episode titles. Kind of bummed they are considering not to. :(
(Not that that will impact the quality of the show itself, of course.)
SamurayQuote Reply
Surprised no one has mentioned this, since it's 6hrs old, but "craigsykes" tweeted
"@ActuallyNPH audition for Littlefinger in #GameofThrones !!!"
cool tidbit :)
@AshandereiQuote Reply
He wants Neil Patrick Harris to audition for Littlefinger? Surely he's too busy with other projects?
OT, but Iain Glen (Jorah Mormont) was on the last two episodes of DOCTOR WHO and was superb. Looking forward to seeing him as Jorah much more now.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Haha, that explains it then :)
Thought craigsykes were auditioning for the part and let his friends know… didn't know ActuallyNPH was Neil Patrick Harris *blush*
@AshandereiQuote Reply
Holy crap, I didn't even think of NPH! He would be great in the role. He has that quirky humor about him, plus he's a great actor. He has quite an underground following that he would bring to the show. I would be all for it.
Jaqen_HgharQuote Reply
His height doesn't matter. His sheer awesomeness will make him suitable for any role.
Seriously, this guy is the most awesome actor in Hollywood.
AlexQuote Reply
hmmm…hmmm…NPH as LittleFinger..I'm not really sure WHAT to think of that…I think I actually like that suggestion…yes.
KelseyCatherineQuote Reply
Surprised no one has mentioned this, since it's 6hrs old, but "craigsykes" tweeted
"@ActuallyNPH audition for Littlefinger in #GameofThrones !!!"
cool tidbit :)
@AshandereiQuote Reply
It seems that the crew is gathering in Northern Ireland.
Bryan Cogman reported on FaceBook that he just arrived in Belfast.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Do not know if this is guy is listed among the crew membres, but I found him on Linkedin site Paul Mcanearney listed as production coordinator for Fire and Blood productions.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Do not know if this is guy is listed among the crew membres, but I found him on Linkedin site Paul Mcanearney listed as production coordinator for Fire and Blood productions.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
We got one very interesting answer from GRRM on his LJ, about the eventually changes in the plot.
GRRM:
"…I really don't think the "almost unrecognizable plot" thing is anything you need fear on this project.
The first season, at least, will hew quite close to the books, from what I have seen.
Admittedly, it will grow harder to remain faithful in later seasons, if the series is renewed. As the books progress and the original characters scatter, more and more secondary and tertiary characters become involved, more and more settings are seen, and the "butterfly effect" comes into play… whereas what seems like a small and innocous change in season one or two turns out to have major consequences in season five, when the minor character who was changed/ cut in season one is supposed to push to the fore and play a significant role.
No one is saying it will be easy. But the intent is there.
But hey, David and Dan knew the job was dangerous when they took it…"
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Someone, please explain the phrase "butterfly effect" to the poor ignorant rabbit?
Lets say, that after reading this I am more and more confident and optimistic about the series.
I just need to find the hero and champion, enough brave to ask GRRM on his LJ if we are going to have Guessing games this time around or not. :D
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
The butterfly effect is that just a small change can have enormous effects later on: if you step on a butterfly today, 50.000 people are killed tomorrow, for example.
@sunvincibleQuote Reply
Thank you, very much.
It seems that the issues GRRM points out, are the same issues we have been discussing here for months.
I like the fact that GRRM is completely aware of this (I mean, of course he is – he wrote the big and complex novel) , and I just wish that his advices would help David and Dan to do the right thing.
Only thing that bothers me is HBO.
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Not bad… But not great either. I would very much like a short littlefinger – or at least not above average. And is this the guy the courted Fairley? He looks like he could be her son, almost.
sjweningsQuote Reply
Into some wine here and my head is a bit fuzzy, but would it work continuity-wise if Ros doubled for the catspaw? It could make for better struggle between Catelyn and the assassin if it were a woman. Its also a great way for Esme to meet a gruesome end that fans will remember. Just a thought.
Lord Ned's HeadQuote Reply
Sadly, I doubt this will quell many of the theories spinning around here because their champions will just go, "Well [my change] is obviously one of the 'butterfly effect' things GRRM is referencing."
So, I hope the thing we take away from this the most is:
"The first season, at least, will hew quite close to the books, from what I have seen."
@sgnpQuote Reply
I can't recall that the catspaw has any other significance beyond the circumstances of his death but why in a world full of sellswords and assassins would you send a prostitute to kill a noble-born boy in his own castle?
go_falconsQuote Reply
I'm sure that plenty of prostitutes have doubled as assassins. Granted, they probably prefer to take their marks in their pillows, but setting a fire for a diversion wouldn't be such a huge undertaking. We know that at least some of the Lannisters frequent Ros's brothel. Perhaps Joff has been there as well. At any rate, the attempt is bungled pretty badly so it would fit that a relative amateur, hired by an amateur botched the job.
Lord Ned's HeadQuote Reply
He is short in the books. NPH is over six feet!? Wow. I had such a 'short guy' impression of him…
AoedeQuote Reply
It wouldn't matter if Joff had been to the brothel or not. It would be easy enough to have Ros come along as a camp follower
End of Tyrion/Ros/Jaime scene:
Tyrion holds up a purse full of coin to Ros, shakes it and simply asks "Coming?"
I'm still under the belief that Littlefinger has his hands in everything that goes on in Westeros. He knew about the dagger, he set up Tyrion to be the fall guy, he owns a number of brothels… Ros as assassin could easily be woven into some of the theorized schemes. It wouldn't be much of a stretch for Joff to ask some whore (particularly if she played to his vanity/narcissism during the trip) to do the deed. It would also make Tyrion look a LOT more guilty in the next few episodes.
I don't really think it's going to happen, but it's fun to make stuff up. Anyone else have ideas?
Phoenix_tornQuote Reply
I'm sure that plenty of prostitutes have doubled as assassins. Granted, they probably prefer to take their marks in their pillows, but setting a fire for a diversion wouldn't be such a huge undertaking. We know that at least some of the Lannisters frequent Ros's brothel. Perhaps Joff has been there as well. At any rate, the attempt is bungled pretty badly so it would fit that a relative amateur, hired by an amateur botched the job.
Lord Ned's HeadQuote Reply
May I ask something completely different?
Have there ever been any talk about seeing Sam Neill in this production?
He's an amazing actor and he's brilliant at switching between both good and bad. .
I think he often takes on parts as much for fun as for the pay and he often does television.
Wonder who he could play though….
Suggestions?
covenantQuote Reply
Davos would be good. Unfortunately, I believe he's currently unavailable unless his new TV show gets cancelled.
Fate's BitchQuote Reply
Not that it matters one bit and just cause I'm a little anal…the phrase actually gets its name from, if a butterfly flaps its wings in somewhere like china, that can have major effects halfway across the world, not if a butterfly gets stepped on…
@dsigalQuote Reply
Actually I could see Sam Neil as Stannis.
dizzy34Quote Reply
being even more anal for a short bit (we need mor casting news/stills/fake rumours, ; we are climbing the walls here!) see. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect. The "squashed butterfly" variety of this is probably derived form the Ray Bradbury short story "A sound of thunder"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Sound_of_Thunder
TPFKA Thoros of MyrQuote Reply
Balon, yes. But no way could Sam Neil be Mark Addys younger brother.
sjweningsQuote Reply
I got that idea, too.
No butterfly effect in there. (as far we know…)
@The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Nice one :) (or I should say legen – wait for it – dary!)
Although he is much more charming than the Littlefinger I envisioned while I was reading, I agree that he would be terrific as Littlefinger. I mean his clever look and speedy physical language would make everybody understand that he knows more than he reveals and I would have no problem believing he is everywhere at the same time, sees everything, has an infinite number of connections and can talk his way through anything.
I too thought of him as rather short and am surprised to learn he is actually over 6' tall, but in his case his slender physic would still go well with the name Littlefinger, so I wouldn't mind if he isn't short.
The down side, however, could be his age, as sjwenings puts it, because he looks much younger than Fairley… Unless you take the fact that he's much younger than her as another reason for Fairley to turn him down way back then… And the fact that he went after a girl much older than him could actually demonstrate he had ambition even then and this failure could have contributed to build his ambition-driven character and explain his absence of a lovelife despite his good looks….
Wow, it turned out I had much more to say on the subject than I first intended.
NymeriaQuote Reply
I bet they will. Between Esme's and GRRMs comments, it seems that she'll have more to do on the show, and i don't see them adding yet another character, when they should be cutting characters instead. So a merging seems quite likely.
sjweningsQuote Reply
Good point.
dizzy34Quote Reply
Unless the Summer Isles have more prominant role in the future books, (which I doubt if he's trying to focus the "span" of the series) I don't think it would have a "butterfly effect" at all. It would make a bigger impact of the actions taken against Alayaya if we've seen this character from show number 1.
dizzy34Quote Reply
The very first thing I thought too, was that Alayaya would turn into Ros. And it would be pretty good – it would add a nuance to Tyrion's protectiveness of her if he "knew" her and liked her in his old life.
SphinxQuote Reply
Couldn't Ros be like the Alayaya character? I mean I know she's a summer islander but if they were looking to merge characters it would be an easy one to make work.
dizzy34Quote Reply
http://pics.livejournal.com/grrm/pic/000a20ya
dizzy34Quote Reply
Sam Neill would make a perfect Roose Bolton. The man is frighteningly talented and such a role requires those kinds of acting chops.
…and Tommy Flanagan *needs* to be Davos.
Stella MarisQuote Reply
My guess to your cryptic url is that the upcoming unreleased shae figurine was not available at the time of the GRRM gifting to what's her face. Her breasts are truly a joy and wonder to fall the eyes upon.
NaysayerQuote Reply
I just thought you'd like to look at it while "it puts the lotion in the basket" ;)
dizzy34Quote Reply
Alayaya/Chataya. When you talk about merging her into one, then the sense I get is that she might need to be merged in with the other. I cannot recall all of the details around the two of them, apart from the familial relationship, but I doubt it would do too much violence to the story to make Ros either the Alayaya character or the madam of the house or a combination of both, perhaps, as the madam character need not be included for plot coherence.
KyleQuote Reply
This is actually an alteration that I could see working. The only collateral I see is that it removes Alayaya from a series that already as a distinct lack of non-white characters.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Seems even GRRM has forgotten he already had a Red Headed Whore in the books whose role could be expanded.
She gets a couple of lines in Arya's last chapter.
If Ros/Esme does replace another character I do think it would be Alayaya rather than Shae though it could just be that she works in Chataya's and gets some dialogue whenever we visit there.
Another option is that she is the Whore (who is also described as having red hair) that Ned goes to visit with Littlefinger.
MormegilQuote Reply
Until you get the cries of foul for cutting two roles for potential minority actresses in favor of two Caucasian ones
BK1310Quote Reply
Well yeah, but if you step on a butterfly it won't be able to flap its wings, and thereby may the effects be even bigger. ;) But the flapping is probably the correct term, I just didn't remember that when I answered (which is why I wrote "for example"). :D
@sunvincibleQuote Reply
I don't really care for Ros or whatever its name is. It ought to rub the lotion on its skin.
Adapting the book based on the TV show (adding Ros to the next book)… isn't it perverse? Was it just his twisted sense of humor? Somehow I doubt and am disconcerted.
But also you should consider there is no Shae figurine. Lannister Lady in Waiting is the only female non-major character that exists as a figurine.
NaysayerQuote Reply
I think Sam Neil is an incredible actor. Who he could play isn't as important as could he/would he.
NaysayerQuote Reply
Oh, yes, they changed the etnicity of two whores, I can see the african american community rioting in indignation.
DennaiQuote Reply
You have more than some wine in your head if you're sitting there thinking in ways to introduce some catfights in the show
DennaiQuote Reply
This Esme thing is not agreeing with me. It's another example of how characters are less important than actors among certain unruly circles. I really couldn't care less about the actress in this case. You'll need to get a spectacular actor to replace both Alayaya and Chataya with a red-headed "traveling whore". And even then it would stink.
SteveQuote Reply
No, I agree with your last comment. If GRRM throws HBO kudos in his next book that would be disgusting and everyone knows it.
"Fans Before the Option" expressed fear the show would alter the outcome of the books. Now we're way beyond that. We can only hope that it won't alter the books in a sell-out, cheesy, campy, unnecessary way.
Here's the crux: GRRM found a sweet spot when he emerged from his long TV stint with a genre writer's furious vengeance for producing what could only exist as a book. That sort of passion and drive is made of magic. And it all came out in a flowing, balanced, detailed prose.
Am I saying HBO could have the reverse effect to what inspired GRRM to write SOIAF? Thinking positively here is to trust GRRM is a wise veteran of the craft, he's been around town (tinseltown, etc)… and that he's got enough of that magic dust to get the books done without getting weak in the knees.
Negative thinking…. well, that's just too easy for someone like me. Starting with how the series unofficially ended a decade ago.
SteveQuote Reply
Well yeah, but if you step on a butterfly it won't be able to flap its wings, and thereby may the effects be even bigger. ;) But the flapping is probably the correct term, I just didn't remember that when I answered (which is why I wrote "for example"). :D
@sunvincibleQuote Reply
I have to realize that the same logic I was going on with them not rewriting Dany just to fit an actress would come into play here, too. Luckily all of the "substitution" talk is just fans speculating over a few words here and there. GRRM hinting that Esme may come back just may mean her character will be seen in future episodes. It doesn't necessarily mean they're going to rewrite old characters out.
Honestly, if they're looking to find a character to replace, the scene between Tyrion and Dancy could work as a scene between Tyrion and Ros with minimal impact. The descriptions are quite different, but when I first read "red headed whore" way back in the day, Dancy is who I thought they were talking about.
paulgudeQuote Reply
I have to realize that the same logic I was going on with them not rewriting Dany just to fit an actress would come into play here, too. Luckily all of the "substitution" talk is just fans speculating over a few words here and there. GRRM hinting that Esme may come back just may mean her character will be seen in future episodes. It doesn't necessarily mean they're going to rewrite old characters out.
Honestly, if they're looking to find a character to replace, the scene between Tyrion and Dancy could work as a scene between Tyrion and Ros with minimal impact. The descriptions are quite different, but when I first read "red headed whore" way back in the day, Dancy is who I thought they were talking about.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Argh… we need some casting news over here!
LexQuote Reply
I thought this too, after recently watching him in Season 1 of The Tudors. He was great.
LexQuote Reply
Yeeaah, I want Littlefinger!!
@AilvaraQuote Reply
Didn't know Alayaya and Chataya were such sacred characters but I get your point.
dizzy34Quote Reply
I understand from reading many of the posts on WiC that some of you are in the entertainment industry and a few are writers, that be case you might be able to answer the following question. While George was writing his first draft for episode eight, did he have in his possession the drafts for the first seven episodes?
TysnowQuote Reply
Speaking as an industry outsider, I would speculate the answer is no. There is probably a series outline, in which it is written what needs to happen in every episode. All of the writers work on their various episodes simultaneously, and the drafts are all submitted to D&D. Then there would be edits/comments/suggestions, what have you, some of which might include things that only D&D can see once they have the draft scripts for several episodes in hand. Then the writers, like GRRM, would have a chance to rewrite.
I don't know how many times this can happen, and I imagine that, at some pont, D&D will simply say, "Thank you," and take the script and make further minor changes themselves if they deem it necessary.
KyleQuote Reply
Didn't know Alayaya and Chataya were such sacred characters but I get your point.
dizzy34Quote Reply
I am in the entertainment industry (I typed this response with my peniz–a nickname for an assistant) and I can tell you the answer is Yes. Also, I am a writer (I write poesy) and the answer is still Yes. In addition to the the seven drafts before his, he also had access to twelve more after his prescribed episode that include flashbacks to events before episode 8. Luckily, he didn't have to actually read those scripts because he is GRRM. He had Christopher Lee come by and narrate passages while a local New Mexico acting troupe in full body green lizard suits performed silent abstracts in the backdrop. Because he is GRRM, he got to write his draft last. GRRM gets the last word on everything GOT. And as an incentive to sitting down to write, HBO rented the best masseuse in LA, an Occidental man-lady that goes by the name of Chen Chenski who has celestial hands. And he got paid a million dollars for that script.
NaysayerQuote Reply
I am in the entertainment industry (I typed this response with my peniz–a nickname for an assistant) and I can tell you the answer is Yes. Also, I am a writer (I write poesy) and the answer is still Yes. In addition to the the seven drafts before his, he also had access to twelve more after his prescribed episode that include flashbacks to events before episode 8. Luckily, he didn't have to actually read those scripts because he is GRRM. He had Christopher Lee come by and narrate passages while a local New Mexico acting troupe in full body green lizard suits performed silent abstracts in the backdrop. Because he is GRRM, he got to write his draft last. GRRM gets the last word on everything GOT. And as an incentive to sitting down to write, HBO rented the best masseuse in LA, an Occidental man-lady that goes by the name of Chen Chenski who has celestial hands. And he got paid a million dollars for that script.
NaysayerQuote Reply
I must disagree. Actually, it is in my contract to disagree. GRRM was not only unable to see any other drafts prior to writing his, he was unable to see. Before he was allowed to write his draft, GRRM had his eyes spooned out and fed to lizards (or maybe they were a local New Mexico acting troupe, I usually get those two confused). In fact, the New Mexico acting troupe (or were those lizards) also jumped up and down on his head, feet, hands, back, and spleen while he wrote his draft, which he was required to complete in triplicate with a quill and parchment using an alchemical mixture of his own blood, the sweat of an Egyptian mongoose, and motor oil. And I got paid a million dollars for disagreeing with you. It's quite a good contract.
YaysayerQuote Reply
haha yea, I think the common phrase refers to a butterfly flapping it's wings causing a tsunami in asia or something
ScottQuote Reply
I don't know who is paying you a million dollars to disagree with me ser, but perhaps we can make this a more profitable scenario and find you more absolute, irrevocable facts to contradict, and then go halvies.
NaysayerQuote Reply
Hi there – Im paul McAnearney – It seems there was an error on linkedin – I was production Secretary on the pilot, not coordiantor –
PaulQuote Reply