Here are a few pieces of newsworthy items gleaned over the week:
- Sai Emrys and David J. Peterson kindly responded to a previously published open letter in Scientific American where they were asked to include certain linguistic features in the Dothraki language, so that their learnability can be tested in case fan communities decide to learn and speak the language. To tell it in very few words, the creators’ position is that it is too late to do what they were asked, and that such an experiment would also infringe on the artistic integrity they are pursuing while delivering the newly constructed language to the producers who comissioned it. In the examples they provide, fans can find new Dothraki fragments, and the morphology of the language is discussed in some detail as well.
- Sophie Turner answers a number of questions on her Formspring account (disabled since, though), some on acting and the series more in general, and some interestingly detailed ones about the role of Sansa and her take on it.
How did find out you got the role of Sansa?
I find out when I was on holiday in France and my mum woke me up by saying “good morning Sansa” I looked at her she nodded and then i just burst into tears haha.What do you think the biggest challenge will be for you playing Sansa?
It will probably be all the crying scenes because that’s when the emotion has to come through… or when she is in love, i really need to act then :)What are you looking forward to the most about playing Sansa?
it would have to be the emotional journey she goes through. I can’t wait for the last book to be written to find out who she really is and who she becomes. :)Sansa is one of the most hated characters in ASOIAF. How do you feel about her?
I really like Sansa, because she seems like she has so much to learn and so I really like reading her chapters and seeing how she develops. I know not many like her. But you have to give her credit, especially when she is at the hands of Joffrey :)
- Last, but perhaps most exciting, is what George R.R. Martin wrote in his latest Not A Blog post, concerning the role of Samwell Tarly:
We’re casting Sam right now for the TV show. Two excellent young actors stand out above the rest. A damned hard choice.
Hear Me Roar: Not too bad for a weekend summary. Good to hear they are down to two actors for at least one role. I believe they are really close to casting Samwell, only waiting for GRRM’s input before they decide. Stay tuned for some long-awaited casting progress and more excitement in the coming week.
Loading ...
224 Comments
Well, looks like we're going to know sth soon! Nice news.
<first :D>
AilvaraQuote Reply
awesome! can't wait to hear more in the coming days and weeks!
LaurenQuote Reply
I am really trying hard lately to be more optimistic concerning the coming of news, but..
Every Sunday it is like: Well, something will pop-up next week, and then almost nothing pops up. (Do not count here the scraps we digg up all over the net).
There is one thing that bothers and I am not so "in bussiness" to be capable of explaining it to myself.
It is obvious by now, that by the each week passing by, there are more and more people involved in the production (actors auditioning, the crew, the stuff and friends of all these people) who speak about Thrones more and more freely on the net.
Is it sound logic to you that HBO could be forced by now to announce finally some stuff to public.
As for Sophie, I like very her attitude to Sansa s characters – and I hope so that her little chat on that site would not bring her any trouble.
The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Why on earth would a lack of new information be cause for pessimism?
Patience.
We're not going to be seeing the series for nearly a year, people. There's a reason that for an average show, we would have barely even heard of it at this stage in development. The creators need to focus on creating, not publicizing. It's not economical, nor is it even possible, to sustain a level of buzz from their end for that period of time. HBO won't be forced into diddly squat, nor should they be.
Ser GQuote Reply
It seems like HBO won't release anything until they completed the cast, at least they moved on to casting supporting roles maybe it means all the major roles had been filled.
humusTasterQuote Reply
The Sam news is exciting. Can't wait to hear who they chose.
I liked the Sophie Q&A too. It sounds as though she's read the books herself? I thought her mom was just giving her a summary.
LexQuote Reply
Do not worry about me.
It is just a state of mind, lately :)
I had, casting news most of all, in my mind. It is too early for everything else.
I agree with everything you said, execpt for the fact that HBO for sure have some publicity departement who take care about announcing.
The creators, never do the publicizing IMO.
The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Do not think so, GRRM pointed out that they were going the cast, by the order of appearance, to say so, and that they were focusing now on the pilot and on the episode 2.
I am pretty sure that, for example, Lord Tywin is not cast yet.
The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Sophie is so sweet! I like her attitude toward the attention.
LavenderAQuote Reply
Yeah, basically we're hypersensitive about this because we're huge fans of the show. There's really nothing out of the ordinary as far as the lack of the rest of the casting information. As much as *we* want to know who's playing Varys, Littlefinger, etc., the actors playing the "main characters" (as far as any outsider would see) have already been announced.
paulgudeQuote Reply
It´s good to know that Sam will be in capable hands, judging by Martin´s blog entry.
ConquestQuote Reply
As much as Lord Tywin is important to the story, he shows up in the last quarter of A Game of Thrones and appears in maybe three chapters? He'll be very important in Season Two, and could most likely steal the scenes he's in in Season One, but I'm not sure I'd say he's any more of a major role than Sam at this point.
paulgudeQuote Reply
From GRRM's Blog:
http://grrm.livejournal.com/155164.html
——————–
infinite_hiatus wrote:
Jun. 6th, 2010 09:58 am (UTC)
I dig the miniatures and I know they're a passion of yours, but have you thought about action figures? Maybe that will be a possibility once the show is out and a big hit.
grrm wrote:
Jun. 6th, 2010 06:06 pm (UTC)
HBO will control those rights. Along with lunchboxes, bobble head dolls, key chains, and many other subrights.
—————
To HBO: Action figures? Yes, please!
paulgudeQuote Reply
Yes, I must agree.
But it is still frustrating me :D
The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
She said it so in the Q&A: she has read only Sansa's chapters, and with mum's supervision, putting out the most explicit stuff
CaedesQuote Reply
I must disagree with you there, when casting Tywin or other minor first season roles they must take into consideration their involvment and significant in seasons to come, you can't, for instance, cast untalented giant to play Hodor if in GRRM's next book he magically starts talking and become one of the Kingsguard.
anyway, no matter in which order the casting goes, I think we won't have cast news until the casting is complete. I think this is the reason the only cast news that were released were of the cast of the pilot.
humusTasterQuote Reply
I think you're confusing role prominence with actor talent. I'm saying that for Season One, Tywin definitely won't be considered one of the "main" roles, and will most likely be billed as a guest star. As such, they may not delay announcing the "main cast" while waiting for his role to be filled.
That in no way should imply that I think they're going to get someone untalented to play Tywin, in fact quite the opposite. Plenty of great actors have guest starred in a TV series. Oftentimes, they have been much higher profile actors than the series regulars.
paulgudeQuote Reply
I hope it would not be the way you see this.
And that we are going to have some casting news soon.
The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Sophie formspring account is closed.
You got a nice puppy pic instead of it.
Probably her parents found out.
Hopefuly, she is not in trouble.
The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Talent is only one aspect of casting, as you said roles can be billed as guest star, but I don't think this is the case when the role is very important in next season and you must secure the continuity of the character and the actor, in fact you need to make a casting decision for two season or more and that's why I think the perspective needs to be wider then only one season.
humusTasterQuote Reply
I hope I'm wrong too.
humusTasterQuote Reply
I'm not positive HBO is going to wait for the entire cast to be assembled to release the majority of names. It's more to have publicity for them than to make sure we fans finally know who all the parts are, yes?
There's no reason to think the next announcement won't happen like the previous ones. If it follows the basic pattern, there will be a main announcement of a more recognizable name, and the article will be filled out with the other, lesser roles. My guess is it will be the "award-winning" actor for Pycelle (if he was retained), or one of the "household names who would be recognized by any film or television fan," GRRM mentioned watching tapes of, should they be cast.
The announcement of one actor replacing another is news in and of itself, which is why I think we heard about Fairley and Clarke on their own.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Heh, poor thing. She's obviously really really excited about playing Sansa and trying to have as much fun with it as she can. But The Man (or parents) keeps holding her down.
ChrisQuote Reply
Is it possible some roles have already been filled but that HBO waits with the anouncement until ALL rolls have been filled??? From my point of view it would be a lot easier to announce them all at once (though I don't know much a about these kind of things)
LiesieQuote Reply
Again, I'm speaking specifically in the context of whether or not they'd hold for Tywin to be cast in before they name any of the other actors. I realize his casting is going to be important, but he won't be in the majority of the episodes. There's even a possibility that, if they are casting in order, that he'll get cast later than any other "main" character.
With this in mind, I think it's entirely possible that if he's a big enough name the actor playing Tywin will get his own announcement when cast.
Also, being billed as a guest star and then coming back as a season regular in the next is standard practice. It happens all the time.
paulgudeQuote Reply
I would think we'll have to hear at least SOMETHING by July. But I've telling myself that since the green light and as The Rabbit says, the weeks keep ticking by with nothing. But I would assume at this time that they have cast at least a few major roles and are probably checking off more every few days.
And we know that GRRM would be more than happy to announce each and every role, no matter how large or small. So the way I see it HBO is waiting for some thing – could be that they have a preferred way of handling these announcements, could be they really haven't finalized on any castings that are worth releasing themselves, or they are just super busy and have better things to do, unlike us :)
ChrisQuote Reply
Every time she does something cool like this people come along and ruin it for everyone else. I'm not talking about her parents or HBO, either. If it's already been made perfectly clear that her parents skip over the racier chapters of the book, what do you think they're going to do when you ask her how she feels about sex scenes on the Internet?
Honestly, children, this is why we can't have nice things.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Probably the parents. She didn't say anything too spoilery so why would HBO or GRRM be so touchy about it. But I can imagine that her parents want to protect her from too much publicity / internet weirdos.
I'm really liking her enthusiasm and her approach to Sansa :)
NemoQuote Reply
Yea for real. For as awesome as the internet is, its also created a monster. People seem to think that they can drop any social etiquette and restraint and just say or ask whatever the hell they feel like when it comes to the internet. In fact, many people seem to purposely go out of their way to be as insensitive as possible.
If I were a parent, I guess I would be very worried about how my kids interact with the internet, especially if they were thrown into a high-profile HBO show pretty much out of nowhere.
To reaffirm my point, people are idiots.
ChrisQuote Reply
Feel bad for Sophie ….some posters were incredibly rude to her but she handled it well I thought…another reminder there some serious @$!?holes out there….
About the casting news ?…i’m with da Rabbit01….beyond impatient right now!
Coltaine777Quote Reply
I'm thinking it may also be possible that they're still in negotiations with someone around Heady or Momoa's level for Varys or Littlefinger, and are waiting for contracts to be finalized before making an announcement that includes some of the smaller roles.
If they end up casting someone less known that that, then the announcement may be made in conjunction with Pycelle's actor instead.
This is all we-don't-have-any-news-so-I'm-talking-crazy speculation, though.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Yeah, I've really changed my plans regarding my daughter and the Internet based on how some folks express themselves regarding the kids on this show.
paulgudeQuote Reply
In a way, I'm glad I got this eye-opener. My wife was always worried about me putting videos of my daughter on YouTube, and this kind of stuff made me see her point of view. Afterwards, I started thinking about what a weird dimension archived Internet content is going to add to teasing. I mean, can you even imagine what Junior High is going to be like for that "David Goes to the Dentist" kid if one of his classmates realizes who he is?
paulgudeQuote Reply
Honestly, if they get to the end of July without us hearing anything official, I expect there will be a sudden burst from friends, family, people in Belfast, etc., regarding the other actors involved that we'll have some kind of leads to go on. That said, though, I really think we just need more patience. Remember, @Topomanyare was still waiting to hear back last week.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Not being parent myself, but I completely understand if her parents forbid her to express herself via the net. I would for sure, if I was them.
There are too much idiots and less carefull people out there.
We have been witnesses, even on this blog wich is very correct concerning that stuff, of such idiotism (Sorry for using such a rude word, but can not find better one to express that ways of communication.
The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
Didn't Catelyn at some point complain about the difficulty of waiting?
Take this as a chance to RPG :)
NemoQuote Reply
:)
The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
ha ha ha.
I was a little bit discouraged by the all complaints here about speculation stuff.
And yes, that is exactly what I have in mind.
They are probably chasing some rather big names for LF, Varys and maybe Old bear among others, and when they got them there will be an announcement – as it was the case with Sean Bean and group of actors announced with him.
Just a speculation, of course :)
The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
I realy hope you are right and will get casting announcements every couple of days from now on, but it seems to me we forget that this is just another show for HBO and thats the way they treat it, with no regards to the special bazz it's creating, I don't see them bothering about publicity this early in production, please correct me if I'm wrong but they didn't even posted anything about GOT on their web site or officially released anything since the green light announcement.
as I see it they probably have procedures in which they first gather the cast and crew, make sure the contracts are sealed and everything is done and only then give a press release.
humusTasterQuote Reply
No problem, I can think of much ruder words for that kind of stuff. ;)
Interesting note: I have a Formspring account, and you get to screen all the questions before you answer them. If you don't answer them, they never show up. It says a lot that Sophie took the time to answer even the more intrusive ones, and answered them as straightforwardly as she could without feeding into their attempts to unnerve her.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Me too, but in my own language :D
The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
according to my speculation it is very likely that some roles have been filled.
humusTasterQuote Reply
I second that.
But not too much of them, though.
Maybe 3 or 4, I would say.
Septa Mordane and Jory perhaps.
The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
I'm actually right along with you as far as the fact that we shouldn't expect it getting any special treatment as far as publicity goes.
That said, though, we can take their past announcements as an indication of when we might see more information.
The last of the big casting announcements from the pilot happened less than a week before filming began. So, theoretically we're still on track for something like that to happen.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Mr.Gude brings up a good point…she’s a very tough young lady…can’t believe she responded to many of those questions …with a smile no less !…good for her I say …God I HATE trolls…it’s really too bad…she was giving pretty good insight Into her character
Coltaine777Quote Reply
Ok…now I’m with HumusTaster…they must have cast more roles by now…they’re just not announcing for some reason ….they want us foaming at the mouth …wait….we already are lol …
Coltaine777Quote Reply
Remember that last summer we had a "special treatment" by David and Dan over at Westeros forum and GRRM on his Not-a-Blog.
And we got a lots of info – famous clues included, from august to the beginning of the shooting.
This time, when everything is in the hands of HBO, and the things are different.
The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
I think it's a different game than the pilot, *speculation alert*, in the pilot D&D were much more independent, hence the fans involvement in casting and GRRM casting clues that out of the question now that the show have been picked up and HBO has taken over.
maybe we need to look for indications in past productions, but I have no knowledge on that.
humusTasterQuote Reply
Didn't see your post, could have saved me some spelling checks…
humusTasterQuote Reply
Oh, and here's what I was going off of when I said that Tywin may not be announced with the rest of the cast:
http://grrm.livejournal.com/151442.html
GRRM says:
"Characters like Lord Tywin (who does not appear until my episode, episode eight) and Shae are not going to be cast until much later in the process. "
Now, this *could* be an issue with interpretation. I took this to mean "much later in the process of filming the first season," rather than "much later in the process of casting the first season."
Again, this comes from the limited experience I have with the casting. Every audition I go to for minor roles is usually one or at the most two weeks before the scenes will be filmed. Very often filming is already in progress at the time my audition occurs.
Now, perhaps Brude could offer more insight, but it didn't seem that far of a stretch to me that Shae and Tywin would be cast further into the production schedule. I'm not saying they're minor roles, but rather that (like a minor role) won't be needed for the entire run of the series.
The other way of reading it, that they're just going to be cast later than everyone else but *still* be cast before production starts, just seems weird to me. I'm not saying I don't understand what the words mean, I just mean that it seems odd that you'd put a restriction like "casting in order of appearance" on the casting process if by the time you start filming you have your full roster for the entire season.
paulgudeQuote Reply
You're probably right about that, it make sense reading it like this.
Still, it's not contradicting my speculation about gathering the whole crew needed for filming to begin and only then announcing it.
humusTasterQuote Reply
Oh, not at all. When you said, "It seems like HBO won't release anything until they completed the cast," it sounded to me like you meant the whole cast. If you only meant the cast needed to begin filming, I definitely agree. Like I said elsewhere, the last official casting announcement for the pilot happened a few days before the pilot started filming.
Again, not trying to cause any trouble here, but depending on how late in July filming is going to start they *could* be holding the information to make an announcement of the final roles at Comic Con. This would only make sense if they had a name that attendees of something like that would flip out over, but it's entirely possible.
I need to point out, however, just like the trailer speculation, this is just too much time and paranoia, not something I actually *want* to happen. I mean, *I'm* not going to be at Comic Con. With nothing more than self interest at heart, I think it would be more beneficial if they would announce it through regular channels with a press release to the Hollywood Reporter first, and then a release of a "red band" trailer on iTunes. (Preferably tomorrow.)
paulgudeQuote Reply
My main argument is that we ain't gonna see casting news until a concentrated announcement.
nevertheless, I hope I'm wrong and GRRM is writing riddles as we talk.
humusTasterQuote Reply
I don't think we're actually arguing, then. Like I mentioned, I think we got the recast announcements for Dany and Cat because recasts are themselves a story. I don't think we'll see an official announcement again until there's at least one "tentpole" name to go in the headline, and I'm skeptical that we'll get anything too juicy by the way of clues until that time.
Although, GRRM *did* take the time to give us the note that he'd put up Froggy if there was a clue, which means that maybe he was given hope that this could possibly happen. Like you, I think we're waiting for an official announcement but my fingers are crossed anyway.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Over time I learn to understand Sansa,He is a reflection of all that was bad in her mother, her prejudice against John her love of the South.I hope she is redeemed in the next book for actress sake and for the Starks
@JWMan1Quote Reply
I think a lot of people hate Sansa so much because GRRM did such a good job making her a real person. Unlike Tyrion, who's crazy smart, or Arya, who's basically a ninja, Sansa gets often gets fooled by people, acts emotionally, and makes really poor choices. I think a sure way to get people to dislike a character is to make them no better and no worse than the audience.
paulgudeQuote Reply
I've never understood the hate. She's a very interesting character to me– easily one of the most "everyman" roles in the books. She does what most of us would do in those situations, rather than what we wish we would do, which is what a lot of the other more popular characters do.
SteveQuote Reply
Eddard Stark – now with Ice-wielding, karate-chop action!
Stella MarisQuote Reply
Spoilers, obviously….
I find her interesting for other reasons….she makes one of the most dramatic transformations of any of the characters. She goes from a completely normal, if not somewhat self-involved, preteen to a hardened, cautious, clever young woman. She had to go through a lot of crap to get there, but for all the Sansa hate out there, surely people can't hate her for learning from her experiences? But yeah, I agree with you…she kind of blunders through things as most people would.
Really, I hate Cat more than Sansa. I got so freaking tired of all of her "all my babies are dead, oh woe is me, BUT I MUST BE STRONG FOR ROBB!" internal dialogue. Un-cat is am (evil) breath of fresh air.
Stella MarisQuote Reply
I must have about 25 of the LOTR action figures. They are really nice, and big, with great detail. Some of them are a bit hard to stand up on their own, but otherwise they're awesome. I would defnitely buy some ASOIAF action figures of similarly good qualitiy.
LexQuote Reply
Exactly. Most people gravitate towards heroes and villains because they're both stronger than us, just in different ways. I notice that the most hated characters are the ones that remind us most of ourselves, apt to make mistakes and hypocritical in their dealings with others.
I like those types because they're a bit more complicated, if somewhat harder to take.
paulgudeQuote Reply
And that right there is one of the reasons I have enjoyed her the most…because she is human. She's a little spoiled and hasn't lived enough to realize the consequences of her actions or desires, and like any human, acts a little selfishly. She will grow into an amazing character, I have no doubt.
I'm also very excited to have Sophie portray her!
@KelseyCMSchmitzQuote Reply
I never understood the hate either. She is easily the most "human" and realistic characters of the whole series and that makes her chapters very interesting.
It also seems like GRRM might be setting her up to be the damsel in distress who saves herself.
Jardin17Quote Reply
That's the truth. Lately I've started gravitating towards things where I hear a lot of complaints like, "The writing was good, but there are no likable characters," because a lot of people seem to get turned off by flaws.
paulgudeQuote Reply
I do not usually post here, but Steve just make a tremendous point for the sansa haters. It is easy to hate her, she remind us of why we read fantasy and heroism tales and stories. We like to escape, we like to think we would "do otherwise". Then Sansa comes and remind us that, no, we really wouldn't do that. We would really like, though. Do as the song, the book, the film, the… whatever. But, most of us would actually act pretty much as she does (at her age), and some fantasy readers don't like to be reminded of that. I have been at a near-death accident of a friend, and can proudly say that was one of the few who manage to "run in the right direction", although thankfully, some nearby non-related bystanders were in place. The did no only managed to "run in the right direction" but they managed it while thinking of a plan. I was nearer my dear friend and run to him as fast as my brain allow it, still, I got there and found one stranger stopping me from lifting him up (which prolly save his life, as a truck had just run over him), another stranger on the floor screaming over me and a couple of other friends of mine on the phone describing the scene to the paramedics. All I manage to do was get there, some of my friends were still frozen some 10 – 15 m away, some where even farther away and still running away from us. The truck diver (guy on the phone) and a complete stranger (guy stopping me and a few other of my mates from doing smthing really stupid) save my friend's life in the few seconds that my brain shut off to save me the shock and spare me the awfull memories of being frozen up and scare shitless while Oscar was bleeding to death and strangers run towards him while all I could do was drink in the scene.
RichardQuote Reply
I don't understand the hatred either. I always like her chapters. Sure at first she is naive and seems a bit shallow, but she is just being a typical 13yr old girl who, before the end of the first book, had lived a very sheltered life. It's nothing to hate. Sure she isn't fiesty and rough like Arya, but it would be boring if she was. I like that GRRM has created such different personalities for his characters. I like how the other characters use her as a pawn, and I also like how toward the end of the 4th book she has started wisening up to the fact. I think she will grow into a lovely young woman by the end.
Charis BennieQuote Reply
I was good friends with a kid who got well known for a famous "blooper" video he was in. His dad was a Rabbi in Baltimore and would do a brief lighting of the candles prayer live on the local TV news during Hanukkah. Anyway, one night his little brother Hershel decided he was going to start making faces on camera and generally cause a ruckus. It's a very funny piece of video and became one of the most popular videos on the "Bloopers" clone series of specials called "Life's Most Embarrassing Moments."
Anyway, years later – decades even – they were still occasionally being interviewed on TV about the incident, even into their 20's. It's a pretty weird thing, but it's what will happen to a lot of these kids, I'm sure. In fact, I think this sort of thing probably has been happening for a while now, between the bloopers shows and "America's Funniest Home Videos," and the like.
BrudeQuote Reply
Same here. Sansa is actually my favorite character. I think people forget that she's quite young and obviously she is going to be a little shallow. But she goes through so much amazing development through the books. I can't wait to see where she ends up.
The Winter RoseQuote Reply
I don't think Catelyn is any worse than other characters and she is certainly better than some. She has prejudices, she doesn't always make the right decisions, but the same could be said about Ned or any other 'good guy'.
In her naivety and her ability to build castles in the air even in a snakepit like KL Sansa is closer to Ned than Catelyn. She doesn't have to do anything to redeem, because she isn't guilty of anything but living like any normal girl would.
I truly hope that after Sophie has brought Sansa alive in a way the books cannot, this absurd and completely baseless hate will dimish greatly and people start sympathize her more. As she totally deserves.
NemoQuote Reply
Huge fans of the book you mean.
Im still waiting to see it :P
houndQuote Reply
Sansa is definitely one of the better "everyman" PoVs, along with Sam, whom we also get a snippet of news here. Jaime, Ned, Dany, Jon… they're almost superheroes, albeit fallible ones.
It sounds like Sophie has a good handle on Sansa. And trolls suck.
@K26dpQuote Reply
That would be really awkward, without the context. It's going to be tough for the kid actors to really get a grasp of the whole context of their scenes if they only have that narrow view of the story. I know it's tough and I wouldn't want my kids to read the whole story at that age but it will prove to be a difficult task for their acting I think.
Also, can't wait for the Sam casting, he's one of my favorite characters.
ScottQuote Reply
SOMEONE NEEDS TO TELL POOR SOPHIE THAT SANSA IS LOVED!!!!!!!!
jojoziggyQuote Reply
wooo Jonah Hill for Sam Tarley
NaysayerQuote Reply
Yeah, but that's what the directors are for.
Besides, part of the role (especially for the children) is that they really *don't* understand what's going on in a larger scale. They have only a very limited perspective.
I'd actually be surprised if all the adult actors had read the books. We know that some of them have, but e.g. Sean Bean with his hectic schedules doesn't necessarily have the time or the energy to do so
NemoQuote Reply
Wah…I hope she doesn't die…I have really enjoyed watching her grow. I didn't like her at first, but she has definitely matured (not to mention gone through a whole lot). It made me sad to see Sophie write that she can't wait to see where Sansa ends up in the last book…I hope Sansa makes it that far!!
classicsncbQuote Reply
Don't forget the detachable head.
BillyQuote Reply
Hah! That's actually who I see when I think about Sam, though I don't *really* see Jonah *playing* Sam in the show ^^ Probably only because I have a hard time imagining him out of comedic roles. Still, he *looks* like my Sam.
Sarah Curry BurchQuote Reply
At 26, isn't he a little old? Isn't Sam supposed to be about the same age as Jon?
George DWQuote Reply
George, wtf pls shut it the pie whole.
queefsalotQuote Reply
Very often when I read books I get a picture in my head of a character even before he is described. That picture is later very hard to get rid of. And even if the image you see is built on the description, the age of the person is rarely told…
My Ned is around 55 and bearded with long salt and pepper hair. Catelyn is 30-ish and very pretty.
Jon is perhaps 25 and Tyrion perhaps 40.
I am 35 myself and I guess one adapts the ages a bit upwards as one self grows older. Age is after all authority.
covenantQuote Reply
Btw one of the dangers of turning a book into imagery. Many mental images will be crushed and some of the personal feelings will be eradicated.
LotR the movies was amazing….but I will never again be able to read the books MY way anymore.
A bit sad, but that is the price we pay
covenantQuote Reply
Yes, that's what I thought as well. But OTOH, Sam's age isn't so important story-wise. His character works even if he were a little older
Besides, so far they've aged up almost everyone (Jason Momoa being the notable exception in adult roles and perhaps Lena Headey as well), so they really need to be coherent with it, if they want to maintain credibility. I'm having a hard time buying it already and if some persons are looking 10+ years too old while some persons are in the exact age, the unity crumbles.
NemoQuote Reply
The same happens to me. Although sometimes I can alter the mental picture as the story progresses, to look more proper as the info increases. I've managed to drop Tyrion's age from 35-40 to 30-ish, for example. Now, if I could make 5 more years to disappear, I'd be content with myself.
I'm glad that Dinklage doesn't look like my Tyrion at all. I probably will be able to keep them distinct from each other, and my Tyrion-age-project won't go amiss, lol
Hmmm. I don't fit well in your theory. Or maybe I turn for more childlike as I age.
NemoQuote Reply
(spoilers)People hate Sansa because she thought about herself over her father. Call it naivety, or whatever but she helped contribute to Ned's demise. I think she is an interesting character and will end up being Petyr's downfall but her chapters (especially the ones in Feast) are kind of tedious to read, which is another reason people don't like her.
dizzy34Quote Reply
So true, this is my greatest fear about the show, more than it sucking I fear it will ruin the books for me.
also, I too aged up in my mind some of the characters's ages, mainly Jon, Rob, and Dany, the way they behave and talk just prevent me from picturing them so young.
humusTasterQuote Reply
By the way, I don't know if the subject came up already, but I wonder how they will deal with the kids growing up from season to season while their character stay more or less at the same age.
humusTasterQuote Reply
Nah, I don't think Sansa had really nothing essential to do with Ned's demise. Ned sealed his fate when he went to talk with Cersei. There's no way she would've let him go unchecked with the information he was holding.
It also could be said that Ned contributed Sansa's "fall" by his acceptance of Lady's execution, and by that, his own fate.
NemoQuote Reply
I just think its weird that people HATE Sansa. I could see not liking her as a character, thinking she is tedious, or even hating the decisions she makes… but I dunno, just weird that there is outright hate for a 13 year old girl, especially considering she is probably one of the most "good nature" characters in the whole story.
ChrisQuote Reply
Yeah, I have a similar fear, but I think I'll be capable to stop watching if I start to feel that the show is more ruineous to my (very precious) mental images than fun to watch
NemoQuote Reply
As fun as it is to follow along with the show, and see it all brought to life, I agree that seeing a book on screen does take something away from it that you can never get back.
I loved watching the LoTR movies, but it definitely changed the books for me and took away some of the "magic." For whatever reason, it just seems more real now and less fantasy, and I definitely enjoyed the books better with my own images in my head rather then seeing the movie replay.
I will still follow along with the show every step of the way and hope the show at least does the books justice, otherwise I would say it definitely isn't worth it.
ChrisQuote Reply
I cannot understand it either. Hate for Joffrey, the Cleganes, Lannister twins, the Freys… these are understandable targets, but why pick a young girl who goes through a lot of hardships and does not kill/maim/abuse/etc anyone
NemoQuote Reply
People hate Sansa because they are supposed to. George writes her as an obnoxious, pretentious, petulant little girl for a few reasons. One is that she and Arya are supposed to be complete opposites. Sansa is the perfect "Lord's daughter" which only serves to make Arya even more of the salt of the earth lovable rapscallion that she is presented as in the beginning of the books.
Secondly, she is written as a prissy snob initially in order to better contrast her early self with the woman that she eventually becomes.
I have to disagree with the Sansa as an everyman point of view also. To me Sansa is a noble who has fallen from grace and must contend with a savage world in which she suddenly is without the protection she has grown up in. Sam is much more of an everyman character to me. I know he is also noble born, but he was never treated as such and has had to (attempt to) learn how to cope from a much earlier age than Sansa.
Lord Ned's HeadQuote Reply
I agree, I think Ned probably did more to put himself and his family in danger than what Sansa did. Things were already in motion for the most part when she spilled the beans. And it seems like the the Queen would've found out before they were able to get away one way or another.
ChrisQuote Reply
I dunno. Sansa has many irritating qualities, but I don't think we're meant to hate her. Of course, at the beginning Arya totally overshadows her as the cool Stark girl, but after Sansa is left to be alone in the KL, I'd say we're supposed to start sympathize with her. Is there really someone who was happy to see how Joffrey treated her, how she was beated by KG, how she was forced to marry a Lannister and how she eventually ended up in LF's (aka the pedo) hands? I think that with Sansa and Arya GRRM is trying to show us no child should ever had to deal with that kind of hardships they're dealing, no matter if you're cool or aren't.
Sansa also serves as an everyman exactly because she is a noble born. We western people live in welfare states these days and a middle class person is closer to (pseudo)medieval noble than peasant.
NemoQuote Reply
The reasons you are describing for hating Sansa sounds pretty much like a normal 12 year old girl. (Especially considering that Sansa was pretty much thrown headfirst into a situation that would be hard for a 40 year old person to handle.) For as awesome as Arya may be, she doesn't act like a normal 8 – 10 year old girl would and she acts at least 10 years older than her age.
Just look at all these millions and millions of Twilight fans. If one of them fell into a situation where they were betrothed to Robert Pattinson they would probably do FAR worse than anything Sansa did to make sure he likes her and to make sure the marriage happens.
I think GRRM took a risk writing so many young characters as viewpoints, but it seems that a lot of people hate Sansa for acting like a realistic 12 year old girl and everyone loves Arya for being a completely unrealistic 8 year old girl.
ChrisQuote Reply
She was a little snob for maybe the first half of GoT, I'll agree with that… I guess I didn't have any hate towards her for it though. She was just annoying at the worst.
ChrisQuote Reply
I had never read the LoTR books before I saw the movie (I know, sin) I wasn't really into hardcore fantasy then. I tried to read one of the books, I don't even remember which one, and all I could see was the movie in my head and I couldn't continue. It's not nearly as fun to read after you've already had other images related to the material in your head.
I love reading books because of the images that play in my head while I read. So when I was reading that LotR novel and I could see Orlando Bloom, Viggo moretenson and Elijah Wood in my head it didn't feel right.
ScottQuote Reply
Please please NO!!!
Just because Jonah is an overweight actor doesn't make him suitable for the role.
My mental image of Sam is a young James corden . Not saying that he should get the role, never see him acting, just the way I picture him.
CaedesQuote Reply
I dunno if it's odd, but I kind of keep the VOICES of the characters more than the image. I cannot read LotR anymore without putting Ser Ian McKellen's voice (btw, he would be my dreamcast Barristan) to Gandalf, or the spanish dubbed version.
CaedesQuote Reply
what did the trolls say? i'm curious now…
LaurenQuote Reply
Ok Hate is a pretty strong word, } suppose it should be reserved for characters like Cersei and Joffrey, Nevertheless she definately does not represent the average view of most girls her age in Westeros, She is the daughter of a major lord in Westeros whoalso happens to be the Warden of the North and has royal blood flowing in his (and thus Sansas) viens. Aside from Maracella there really isn`t anyone in Westeros with more noble blood than the Starks.(Martells and other Baratheons would be peers perhaps. To suggest the average personl living in modern western society is on a par with a medeival serf is a bit over the top. At any rate, while Sansa may go through some truly horrible experiences, she is never remotely close to living the life of a Westeros commoner. Hostage of the Queen. Betrothed to the prince and later the uncle of the King who was a former Hand. “Daughter” of the Lord of :arrebhall. Often all of her trials are worse than what a peasant would suffer, but they are hardly event the common man could be able to sympathize with
Lord Ned’s HeadQuote Reply
I'm not sure what everyone is referring to. I remember a couple questions along the lines of "How do you feel playing the one of the most hated characters in asoiaf?"
There may have been some other stuff too, I only looked at it once a couple days before she took it down.
ChrisQuote Reply
"You're a bitch."
"You're a bad actress."
"Everybody hates Sansa."
"What do you think about having sex with the dwarf guy." (And several other questions about sex scenes.)
Just typical troll behavior.
brewinQuote Reply
Talk about Hate, did anyone watch the MTwilighttweenAwards last night, talk about a joke, I am hating that awards show more and more, they really need to come up with a new voting method that ensures fairness. I mean it was one free 2 hr. Twilight promo that was saved by the Awesomeness of Mr. Les (TC) Grossman, the Oscars need to hire him as their Host for next year.
TysnowQuote Reply
It didn't help for her to 'spill the beans'. What grates on people about the character is that she's too busy "starring in her own movie" until it's too late. I don't hate the character but I can see how people would. I can forgive naivety and general cluelessness, some people can't. I am interested in where she goes from the events in Feast though. However we won't be getting that for a long time it seems.
dizzy34Quote Reply
Jonah Hill and James Corden were my personal favorites for Sam, but unfortunately they have prior commitments for the next year, with both starting filming on movies this summer and well into the new year. I have an alternate in mind though, whether he can fit GoT into his schedule has yet to be seen and that is David Blue from Stargate Universe, he portrays Eli in the series.
TysnowQuote Reply
Good words from Sophie, I like that she has gotten the character. :)
ablaaaQuote Reply
my god everybody, how can anybody hate a fictional character? everything she does is invented by grrm. it is part of a system and has a scope. if you love the book you must sorta love all the characters for the depth they give the narrative.
"i hate sansa" sounds as if you didn't wish her to be in the book.
which is – I gather – not what you're actually saying, is it? you're actually saying, reading about her evokes feelings of hatred in that instant for the one an only reason this one individual george somewhere in america decided to write it down that way.
JennyQuote Reply
I love that idea… how would the average 14 year old behave if they were told they were to marry Robert Pattinson, or even better, Edward Cullen?
You get it completely right, never agreed more with anything anybody has ever said in this world (well, almost ;-D )
JennyQuote Reply
I have just put down money on someone I forgot about, but after looking at his bio, he would make a great Sam and that actor is Spencer Breslin, he is 18, overweight and has an extensive resume, for someone his age.
TysnowQuote Reply
Here's hoping they have The Hound plant a big wet one on Sansa (but gently and with feeling), and not a quick peck on the lips. So we have the eewwwwww factor, but also touching at the same time.
TysnowQuote Reply
it would be sweet if they had Jonah Hill narrowed down to the last for Sam, i thought that he would be able to play a good coward lol
Dave BrownellQuote Reply
Yea I thankfully didn't see those. People are idiots. It just bugs me because her and the other Stark kids seem so enthusiastic and thankful to be apart of the show and are trying to have as much fun with it as they can and of course people have to be idiots and try to ruin it for them.
ChrisQuote Reply
It'll be interesting to see how overweight they make Sam. This is a picture of Spencer Breslin from 2009, and he looks a bit thinner than I've imagined.
http://www.searchingbones.com/files/2009/03/bones…
paulgudeQuote Reply
I'm thinking the odds are pretty good that Sam's going to be pulled from drama school like most of the younger roles.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Same thing with Cat hate… there are threads in westeros.org titled things like "Catelyn is the worst person in Westeros". And the reasons they give are things like "she was mean to Jon!" and she kidnapepd Tyrion for "no reason"! It's very strange. I think the backwards morality of Westeros sometimes spills over to the readers!
jojoziggyQuote Reply
Man, you guys must have a different mental picture of Sam because the only thing Jonah has in common with the Sam in my head is that he is overweight. Everything else is just so wrong, wrong, wrong. Not trying to judge you guys, its just funny how different people can envision characters they read.
ChrisQuote Reply
Well looks like he lost about 20-30 lbs., or just grew up vertically, nothing a Big Mac diet won't correct, the actor chosen can afterall go the Robert DeNiro route.
TysnowQuote Reply
That guy Spencer Breslin is the older brother of Abigail Breslin, who starred in "Little Miss Sunshine."
BrudeQuote Reply
That scene is very important and I'm quite sure has to happen that way.
Oh, and for a LOT of the female fans of the books out there, that's the sexiest scene in the book, often referred to as San-San (Sandor-Sansa relationship) fans. Also, many see Sandor as the sexiest character in the book…yes, it's true.
BrudeQuote Reply
I'm definitely not a purist, so may be alone in this. But I don't think it matters exactly HOW overweight he is, just that he is visibly overweight. I know he is described as being pretty huge, but I think its more important how well he can pull the character off and how well he can embody that kind of… I guess I would say, abused animal mentality that Sam has.
ChrisQuote Reply
It's kind of like The Beauty and the Beast. Except in this case, the beast also happens to be a sociopathic murderer of men, women and children with none of the redeeming qualities of The Beast.
ChrisQuote Reply
Yes, very like Beauty & the Beast, though I would say that Sandor goes through a partial redemption by the time we last see him under that tree (and possibly a full redemption after that, it's hinted in AFFC).
BrudeQuote Reply
Not to open up this can of worms again, but I think the scene is going to play a bit differently for some people when they actually see a young girl and a grown man on screen. Often, I feel, the folks who romanticize it are putting themselves in the place of Sansa, and therefore bringing their adult mind into the situation.
It's definitely going to be one of the more intense scenes in the show, but I suspect the "mechanics" of the kiss are going to be the providence of the two actors. By this, I mean I'm pretty sure that Rory and Sophie will be given a bit of leeway on how they play that scene when the kiss comes.
I don't know how to fully articulate this, but a quick peck on the lips could be even more creepy. It all depends on how it's played.
paulgudeQuote Reply
If someone made a venn diagram of ASoIaF fans, I bet there would be a big overlap between "People who hate Catelyn and Sansa" and "Losers who don't understand women and never get laid".
Just sayin'.
RomanCandleQuote Reply
I'd definitely take the attitude over the weight if I'd have to choose, but I don't imagine them having to compromise on that.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Oh, I agree. I guess I meant that there might just be a window of acceptable size the casting crew is looking for, and as long as the actor is reasonably within that range, the focus is more on the acting.
ChrisQuote Reply
Yeah, I don't know about this "San-San" stuff. I'm majorly creeped out by the way Sandor treats Sansa. Though, I find it *less* creepy than the way LF treats Sansa, and the kiss he plants on her later in the series. I suppose because Sandor seems to have genuine "affection" ( I use that term loosely) for Sansa, as opposed to LF reliving his obsession for the mother through the daughter. I'm really hoping these moments seem as creepy on screen as they do in print ( ie Sansa/the Hound/LF/Tyrion)
Sarah Curry BurchQuote Reply
Agreed. And its hard to deny that there's an underlining… something between them. Its hardly even approaching romantic or anything, but he definitely treats her better than anyone else in KLs and is quite protective of her. Even when he says nasty things to her and is "mean" to her, he's usually trying to make her realize that she shouldn't be so naive about what is around her, which I think he does for her own good.
ChrisQuote Reply
Just a few comments:
Sansa: One of my three favorite characters, next to Tyrion and Theon. I understand the hate that comes her way because of Sansa's basic naivete, but that is partially her parents' blame. She was raised to be good at what she's good at, and she excels. I completely agree with Lord Ned's Head (that severed dome sure is talkative); Sansa is going to have her eventual triumph in the books. At the very least a minor one. I can't guarantee she will live through everything, but I have always thought Sansa would be the "more beautiful queen" that takes down Cersei, not Dany. As a character, I feel Sansa is more realistic than Arya, who was almost built to be a fan favorite. Who doesn't like a tomboy? But Sansa is more real, for me (the father of a 14-year old) and if Sophie can inject some real emotion into her, I think the viewing audience will feel more keenly for the character. It heartens me to know that Jennifer Ehle, in a rare post-GoT comment, went out of her way to praise the young Stark actors on Twitter, saying all the kids were "incredible."
Aside: Am I just retarded that I can't find where the Hound actually kisses Sansa? The closest thing I see is their last scene before he flees: He yanked her closer and for a moment she thought he meant to kiss her. He was too strong to fight. She closed her eyes, wanting it to be over, but nothing happened. He then puts a dagger to her throat, makes her sing for him. She touches his face once, and then he flees. Where's this elusive kiss?
Sam: Glad they are close to a decision. The actor who lands that prime role will have to be in it for the long haul. Jonah Hill is too big a star these days to commit to a lengthy role as Sam–and he's very American. I don't think Jonah Hill does any accent aside from Jonah Hill's accent. At least I haven't seen it. Casting clues coming any week now! I … think.
Bonus: Bronson Webb sightings: Saw our Will on two separate occasions recently. He was in the first part of the Russel Crowe movie ROBIN HOOD, showing off his athleticism, sprinting across a ravaged, corpse-strewn field. The movie may have sucked but that dude can run! And of course he died. The second Bronson sighting was in this week's episode of THE TUDORS, where he played what appeared to be a man-at-arms in the service of Lord Surrey (David O'Hara–who I think would make a great Lord Commander Mormont–it's the voice). Bronson Webb: he's everywhere!
Mark Addy: I saw Mark Addy in ROBIN HOOD as well–he was rather lethargic and underused. The Friar Tuck role was played less bombastically than I'm used to seeing it. But I'm confident (or at least hopeful) Addy will show some real testosterone once he straps on the black Baratheon beard.
Fire And BloodQuote Reply
Well, feel free to lose all faith in humanity if after a couple seasons you start to see "SanSan" fan pages popping up all over the internet and EW having a feature poll entitled "Will SanSan ever hook up?? You tell us."
Yes: 26%
No: 20%
I hope so: 54%
ChrisQuote Reply
I'm more creaped out by the way Sansa treats people than the way Sandor does. In the San-San relationship, it's Sandor that I'd feel worried for.
But I guess unlike most people I see 13/15 year olds as adults and not children.
pualoQuote Reply
I find it charming that you imagine I have any faith left in humanity.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Also, probably a couple videos like this:
Everytime We Touch
ChrisQuote Reply
I was actually going to ask the same thing about them kissing, I just finished A Clash of Kings and am about 1/4th through Storm of Swords(re-reads) and there was no kissing between them two and I couldn't remember if they encounter each other again.
ChrisQuote Reply
It's a weird thing. In A Clash of Kings, the kiss doesn't happen. However, there's this in ASoS:
"Megga couldn't sing, but she was mad to be kissed. She and Alla played a kissing game sometimes, she confessed, but it wasn't the same as kissing a man, much less a king. Sansa wondered what Megga would think about kissing the Hound, as she had. He'd come to her the night of the battle stinking of wine and blood. He kissed me and threatened to kill me, and made me sing him a song."
Then again in AFfC:
As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak.
So there are two thoughts, one that Sansa blocked out what happened and remembered later, or that she's invented the memory. I personally think the latter is more likely as far as the books go, but they may choose to go the other way.
Again, whether there's actually a kiss or not may depend on how the actors feel in the scene. I could even see them filming it both ways and then showing the one without them kissing first, then showing one with them kissing in a flashback.
paulgudeQuote Reply
I'm afraid I know too many 13-15 year old kids for me to view them as adults.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Interesting that we may have unearthed a mistaken omission from the books. Like GRRM wrote a scene where they kissed, and then a scene where they didn't–and finally decided to put in the "no kiss" scene and then later forgot.
Or, she's making it up in her mind. Cersei has delusions too.
Fire And BloodQuote Reply
I definitely think the LF/Sansa relationship is ten times more creepy than Sandor/Sansa. Sandor has a somewhat straightforward manner in his ghoulishness that can be seen as a type of honesty. The degree to which LF manipulates events in order to dominate Sansa's life is staggeringly upsetting.
paulgudeQuote Reply
I do often wonder if it's something like the incredibly agile hand-springing Tyrion scene, where he wishes he had done it differently. The "nothing happened" is pretty definite during the incident in question, making the delusion angle seem more likely.
I think the Cersei delusions are some of my favorite bits of GRRM's writing. The thing about the moth was great.
paulgudeQuote Reply
What is the thing with the moth? I don't remember.
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
Sorry Winter, on my phone so I can’t reply directly. GRRM just spends a lot of time describing a moth trapped in a lantern in a Cersei POV that deftly shows her to be a bit unstable.
paulgudeQuote Reply
A Feast For Crows is so insanely underrated. Yes, it is much more a "transition" book than A Game of Thrones or A Storm of Swords, but prose-wise, writing wise, it has some of the best stuff George R. R. Martin has ever written. The Cersei chapters are just amazing; I've never read such bald-faced paranoia, arrogance, and insanity from a POV perspective since probably Moorcock's Elric series. And the Cat of the Canals chapter speaks for itself. Not to mention the Dorne stuff; Martin drew us into this lazy, almost idyllic place, seemingly so far removed from the rest of Westeros… the water gardens especially, I felt like it was in this constant siésta (part of the reason I've always seen the Dornish as Spaniards).
And then of course at the end Martin hits us with Doran Martel's true intents. I should have seen it coming, but I didn't, so lulled was I by the picture he'd painted. A nice little literary rope-a-dope.
But yes, the Hound-kissing-Sansa thing is either a mistake Martin made (and the editors failed to catch) … or Sansa is slightly delusional.
Fire And BloodQuote Reply
Quality-wise, I don't think A Feast For Crows was any worse than the other books.
My favorite review for AFFC I remember compared GRRM to a band that started off their first record playing fairly concise, but really good, songs. With each record they released they started to experiment a little bit more. By AFFC GRRM was basically the equivalent of a jam band complete with long noodling guitar riffs and 12 minute drum solos that sometimes you weren't quite sure if they were part of the song or if the band just wanted to have some fun and show off for awhile.
Like most jam bands, GRRM is incredibly talented and the talent is probably most obvious in the long solos where he is just going off. But sometimes even though less "impressive" you still find yourself enjoying the more concise, defined rock songs a little more.
It was stated much more eloquently but it was pretty clever and I had to agree.
(I still really enjoyed AFFC, once I accepted that half of the story was missing… )
ChrisQuote Reply
I have a tendency not to like those books, but I happen to truly enjoy Sansa's chapters. I have to agree that those who dislike her must want her to be some cunning, preternaturally observant prodigy, but she's a prepubescent girl. She also has lived entirely within one of the most powerful noble families in her world, and has thus never known want or real danger. In short, I think she's fabulously well written, and very sympathetic.
To be honest, before starting to follow this board about a year ago, I had never bothered to see "the Internet's" opinion about this series. And it comes as a complete shock that people hate Sansa. **SPOILER** That's like having people hate Mycah for letting himself get killed by the massive grown man in armor with a sword on a horse. Only Sansa gets hers from a grown up who is as good at lying as the Hound is at killing. **END SPOILER**
People will hate the victim, though. It happens.
KyleQuote Reply
I think I've outed myself for my lowbrow tendencies. I was talking about TV shows rather than books. Still, I agree. One of the things I like about GRRM is that he's got a good handle on cluing the readers in on things that the POV characters don't see themselves.
**SPOILER***
Also, for every horrible decision she's manipulated into making, fate (or GRRM) punishes her even worse. For example, not only does Mycah die for her lie, but her father is forced into a situation where he has to kill her pet wolf. I suppose some could say she "caused" it, but it's definitely not that black and white for me. I'm not at all ashamed to feel sorry for her.
*SPOILER**
paulgudeQuote Reply
@Fire and Blood (sorry, my computer is acting up and apparently I can’t directly reply today)
GRRM has talked about the did he kiss her/didn’t he kiss her Sansa/Sandor moment. From what I remember, he said it was more a young girl fantasy, in the way Sansa remembers it. I’ll look for the quote.
Phoenix_tornQuote Reply
I remember in an earlier thread we made a list of all the developments that happened in AFfC, and it was pretty lengthy for a book where a lot of folks say, "nothing happens."
I understand the whole "half the story was missing" thing, but I also think ASoS was such an amazing juggernaut that the events of AFfC couldn't help but seem tame by comparison.
Like both you and Fire and Blood said, I think he took this opportunity to play around with voice and pacing a bit. I really enjoyed it.
paulgudeQuote Reply
And now it's working… Aparently Technology hates me today.
GRRM was asked about this Oct. 2002. ". . . this is an inconsistency with ASoS more than an outright error. In ASoS, Sansa thinks that the Hound kissed her before leaving her room and King's Landing. In ACoK, no kiss is mentioned in the scene, though Sansa did think that he was about to do so."
GRRM Answers: Well, not every inconsistency is a mistake, actually. Some are quite intentional. File this one under "unreliable narrator" and feel free to ponder its meaning. . .
http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1224/
Phoenix_tornQuote Reply
Aha! Thanks, PHX!
Fire And BloodQuote Reply
I think its mostly bitterness from the missing characters coupled with the long wait for the book. I try to not go down that path, but its going on 10 years since we've heard from Jon and Tyrion and some other characters and I can understand people feeling a little gypped when AFFC came out. And arguably, by this point everyone is probably really curious like me as to what is going to happen with the story lines that have been slowly brewing outside of the Seven Kingdoms.
But if you separate that fact from the quality of AFFC, its definitely a great book compared to just about anything else in the fantasy realm(including the rest of the series.)
ChrisQuote Reply
I'm a bit different from the other folks on this board because I learned about the TV series first, was super excited about it, then read all the books as fast as I could so I'd have the experience of reading them untainted by the series.
As such, I picked up AFfC a day or two after finishing ASoS. That could be a big reason why I didn't feel very bitter about it. Same with missing out on the whole, "Finish the book, George," sentiment.
paulgudeQuote Reply
To put it into perspective, I started reading "A Feast for Crows" June 16th, 2009, so I haven't even been waiting a year for Dance yet.
Dinklage was announced as Tyrion a few days into me starting AGoT, so he's pretty much the only character who I didn't get an impression of separate from the actor they decided to cast. It didn't really matter because he's who I was imagining anyway.
paulgudeQuote Reply
I could totally see myself as Littlefinger, if I was 80% more evil and 20% smarter.
pualoQuote Reply
She actually starts out at 11. And thats when she "gets Ned executed" and all.
sjweningsQuote Reply
Good news! I hope that the fact I like both Catelyn and Sansa will finally help me understand women and someday "get laid". Or maybe I'm just the sad exception :(
Seriously though, I suspect that if people would have a few years break between books two and three, as I did, they might like both Catelyn (undead one excluded) and Sansa better. I remember that back in first books, I was somewhat bothered by Sansa's ability to make all the wrong choices (curiously, Ned's ability to make all the wrong choices just made him cool, but of course the reasons behind their actions were quite very different). But since I returned to the series, Sansa became one of my favourite characters.
SnowfellQuote Reply
I think so too. It would be a nice way to do this in the show. To have him kiss her only to cut to her with her eyes closed and slightly pursed lips and then cut to the Hound staring weirdly at her. (Sounds a little comical the way i describe it, but i bet it could work.)
sjweningsQuote Reply
As described, it sounds like something that's become a standard comedic convention. I'm not positive that it could escape that baggage.
That said, Homicide: Life on the Street would often do three takes of the same line with slightly different readings each time in rapid succession during intensely dramatic moments and that worked well. So maybe showing it both ways would work.
Still, this is a case where I think doing it like it's done in the books would be effective. Have the "accurate" tender yet twisted moment sans kiss in Season Two, then have them kiss in a flashback when she's recalling it in Season Three, then have her remember him kissing her again in Season Four. If you look at the quotes under Fire and Blood's earlier comment, her recollections actually be come more romanticized as time goes on. By AFfC, the "threatened to kill her part" isn't there at all.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Interesting look inside the writer's room of many genre shows: http://io9.com/5555114/inside-the-tv-writers-room…
spacechampionQuote Reply
I totally agree. People projecting themselves into the books to such an extent that they hate certain characters perhaps are not looking at it as art, but as a virtual experience. Which I find weird.
spacechampionQuote Reply
I meant with comparing the average modern person more to medieval noble than to a peasant simply that we are privileged as well and that our standards of living even for the working class are today very good. We have education, health care, a lot of liberties etc. We do not have to start working from dawn till dusk at very young age, we do not live in the same villages throughout our lives, we do not belong to some local lord (though I'm not sure whether there's a feudal system in Westeros)… and so on.
While Westerosi nobles are different from us in many ways (arranged marriages, royal blood etc) and differ also from Westerosi lowerclass, I still believe that for us, spoiled Westerners, it's easier to identify with the nobles than to, say, some blacksmith who doesn't know how to read or write or enjoy other comforts that are everyday stuff for us.
NemoQuote Reply
I never understood that as romantic either, but as something else, er, positive. I think that Sandor was a little bit moved to see for a change someone so bright-eyed, head full of ideas of songs and virtuous knights and all that jazz. Also he probably felt he was doing something important when he trid to protect Sansa, as opposed to those petty orders Joffrey demanded him to do.
NemoQuote Reply
You're going too far.
NemoQuote Reply
I always thought he was drawn to her purity – it reminds him of who he was before his brother shoved his head in the brazier – just a kid who wanted to play with his big brother's toy soldier.
BrudeQuote Reply
Just out of curiosity, where did you first hear about the show and what got you so interested? Its just interesting because I assumed most people here at this point were already fans of the book, so its cool that you were that interested in a preliminary description of the show and became a fan through that.
And I first read the series shortly after SoS came out, probably about 9 years ago. Up until then he was pumping out the books about every 2 years, so I got stuck waiting through the hard parts. It's a bit frustrating because its such a good story and so much stuff has been slowly building up and you feel like some serious shits going to go down(Others, dragons, giants, zombie-catelyn, the warg stark kids, etc) so its hard to be so patient. But I wouldn't go so far as the "Finish the book, George." crowd and in fact, I think that site is incredibly distasteful… though slightly humorous.
ChrisQuote Reply
People who read are extreme people, and they build up a peeve to be hatred. I do not dislike either Sansa or Catelyn. They have many great attributes, but they are stuck in certain ways of thinking, they are their own foils.
Let's comepare them to a cartoon, if they were in the simpsons, they would be marge and lisa. No ones really hates them, but whenever there is a marge or lisa episode people tend to be less enthused and hope for some good homer one liners or other characters to make appearances. Much like sansa or catelyn chapters are dull with out the characters we want to hear from, admired or despised.
SyleonQuote Reply
My friend Kevin and I had talked about a mutual love of HBO shows before, specifically Deadwood and Carnivale, and he knew that I was a fan of fantasy, even though I hadn't been reading it for a while. So, when he heard about the series getting a pilot he mentioned it to me. This was sometime around late 2008 early 2009.
I knew about George R. R. Martin because I was a fan of Wild Cards and had written to him about writing . He actually answered me back, but the letter is lost in a stack of boxes in my parent's basement. So, I was thrilled.
It became a general topic of conversation, about how the time was right for someone to finally do a fantasy series correctly and about how HBO was the right folks to do it. He kept on trying to get me to read the books, but I was working on my own book at the time and between that and taking care of my daughter I didn't really have time to do both.
Finally, I had just finished the proofreading process on my book and was going on a long plane trip at the beginning of May . My friend handed me a copy and said something like, "You'll want to read this before the show comes out."
I ended up finishing the book on my trip back home, and made my way through the series over the next two months.
paulgudeQuote Reply
You are probably right. But OTOH, characters like Catelyn and Sansa are absolutely needed for the story as a whole. They give balance and reflection to superhero characters (as someone here so aptly defined them) like Dany or Jon.
I actually once read all the Dany chapters one ofter another and was surprised to find out that they felt… a bit more lame or something. Then I realised that when reading them in their normal places they take turns with Arya's and Sansa's chapters and I had subconsciously all the time compared Dany to them and it had given more "strenght" to her story. If this makes any sense to you.
NemoQuote Reply
I saw Mark Addy (Robert) and Bronson Webb (Will) yesterday in cinema in Ridley Scott's new Robin Hood. It was great movie, you must not think of it as a Robin Hood movie, because it's rather different story, it's about Robin Longstride – story about what happened to Robin before he became the sherwood legend. Ridley Scott did a great job again and it was very enjoyable movie. And also good performance from our Mark Addy and Bronson Webb. Nothing spectacular, but they did a good job. Can't wait to see Mark as King Robert.
MoldaQuote Reply
I'm a long time reader, but a first time poster, and I'd like to offer some opinions on Sansa and character hatred in general. First of all, I think my favorite thing about Sansa is her character development. I disliked her pretty intensely at the beginning, but by the end of the latest book I had really started to like her. I think she shows a kind of quiet courage after Ned dies, and I think she is also learning that life is indeed not a song, and adjusting her expectations accordingly. I'm terribly curious to see what GRRM does with her next, since I think she's really about to come into her own. She may not be my favorite character, but I enjoy her chapters, and can't wait to see what Sophie does with her character.
In terms of character hate, there's only one character I really dislike, and that's Catelyn. I hate her for her terrible decisions, her incessant worrying and her consistently whiny chapters. The only reason I mourned her death was for her children's sakes (esp Arya, who was so close to being reunited with her family) and I actually had a moment of "OH you have GOT to be kidding me" when she was brought back. UnCat has no redeeming qualities.
I don't hate Cersei though. I have to admit, I kind of enjoy her chapters, and I hope she doesn't get killed off too quickly. I enjoy her diabolical and none-too-subtle machinations, and delight in both her triumphs and her misfortunes just because she's so damn entertaining.
But my favorite is Jaime. He may be almost a superhero, but I love him to death. He's the perfect example of hating a character until you get to read his POV. Don't judge people until you've heard their side, I guess. Except UnCat. I will continue to judge her.
Cat of the CanalsQuote Reply
It's funny I'm the complete opposite on Jamie. Just because his motivations are explained it shouldn't excuse what he does. I can understand how people love him and his story is interesting. But to me his two main actions are still very sorry.
dizzy34Quote Reply
I don't particularly "dislike" any of the characters, but there were some POV's that I found less enjoyable to read, though I'm not saying their POV's weren't pivotal to the story. That's Catelyn for me. I think maybe some of the Cat-Hate might stem from the fact that her chapters are "more of the same"? The "worrying" and whining shows the nature of her character, but at some point I, too, was thinking, "can we move on from this?" = D I was glad to have UnCat come into play, myself. An unexpected wrinkle to an otherwise rather mundane character, which is what I think GRRM does best.
By comparison, I think we "love" to hate Cersei because her character is so extravagant and dramatic. She is the polar opposite of Cat, and these types of characters, as you said, are fun to read. ^^
I'm with you on Jaime. I dont know that I have a logical rationale, but I find myself much more sympathetic to him by the time he returns to KL. I think we're supposed to ^^ His POV's show there's more than one way to see the Kingslayer, and that his intentions were … flawed, but not simply "evil". Still, I keep having to remind myself of Bran's fall so I'm not persuaded to jump on the Jamie Is My Hero bandwagon = D
Sarah Curry BurchQuote Reply
I think this whole thread needs a spoiler heading, or something…
KyleQuote Reply
Her character development is one of the best in the books, only rivaled by Jamie IMO. In the beginning I found her annoying, but after a while she started to grow on me. As Stella Maris says, her transformation was the most dramatic, I couldn't do anything else but read in awe.
kochujangQuote Reply
When you say his two main actions, what do you mean exactly? The another must be throwing Bran, but what is the other? The Jory incident? Sleeping with Cersei?
NemoQuote Reply
Honestly the only POV I hated was Brienne's. Her jaunt through the countryside was boring enough (aside from her stop in the town Randall Tarly is in), but as soon as she started heading in the wrong direction, it was tough to even make myself skim her chapters.
I'm sure on my re-read I'll notice important stuff tucked away in the chapters but.. ugh.
AshliQuote Reply
For some reason I feel like Martin has addressed this indirectly. He was asked about inconsistency in PoV character recollections of earlier events and insinuated that he is aware of them and that they are intentional. Human beings don't have perfect recall.
KyleQuote Reply
I understand how people might be bugged by Catelyn, but UnCat…. well, she's more a force of nature than a person. She's not Cat, anymore, so I judge her differently.
As for Brienne in AFFC, there's a lot hidden away with her journey that I think will be of great importance– everything from Shandrik (?) the weasly knight finding out about Sansa, to the Hound, to Sam's dad, etc. Still, it does meander, there's no denying it. But I find it far more interesting than Bran's chapters. He's far whinnier than her. LOL. Plus, every time she draws a sword I find the scene riveting. She's just so badass. The fight at the old fort is great. And the fight at the inn in the rain is fantastic. So is the fight in ACOK at the tourney.
Steve B.Quote Reply
Not so detailed as this, but my first time with AGoT was also on a trip.
I was coming home by bus, from Madrid (I live in Oviedo, northern Spain, Fernando Alonso, anyone?), and a friend of mine lent me the book the night before. I read at the subway, at the bus station, during the trip, come home, and finished the book by 1:30 am that night.
850 pages (spanish edition) in one day… that's addictive, I think :-)
CaedesQuote Reply
When I describe Sansa as an "everyman" character, I mean for the reader, not for Westeros. Obviously Sansa was born into incredible privilidge compared to her countrymen.
However, her reactions to things resonate as more "real" than anything Arya does. Arya is a Hero in the epic sense — she's constantly in situations and doing things far beyond normal experience and mostly taking action to change her circumstances.
Sansa's reactions are far more based in "reality". She does what most 13-year-old privilidged girls in her situation would do — go into a shell and cast about for anyone who could possibly get her out of the situation that she finds herself in. Her naivity reads more "real" than Arya's pragmatism.
Note: don't take this as a trashing of Arya either. They are different characters, but sisters. They are meant to be contrasted against each other in this way.
@K26dpQuote Reply
Kingslaying…even though he was a "mad" king he was still 'his' King. He kind of took the cowards way out on that one. And Bran's the other one of coarse.
dizzy34Quote Reply
*SPOILERS*
See, this is one of my favorite parts, because it's one of those experiments in realism I see GRRM do from time to time. The chapters serve to illustrate very concretely how well Littlefinger's plans succeeded. Unlike a book where Brienne would hit upon some clue and miraculously track Sansa down immediately, GRRM shows in painful detail how incredibly far from finding her anyone is.
However, I think this also has a lot to do with how much you like a character. Because I find Brienne interesting, I don't see this chapter as boring, because it's full of things that happen to her.
It could also be something about my idea of fun, why I like sandbox environments in videogames rather than something "on rails" with definite missions and achievements. Brienne goes way outside the main story, and Westeros still exists. Still, I realize that some people don't appreciate that kind of experimentation when there's still so much of a story to tell and so many favorite characters who didn't appear in the book.
*SPOILERS*
paulgudeQuote Reply
SPOILERS
Actually Sandor and Sansa never kiss. In the scene during the battle for the blackwater after Sandor has run from the field and goes to Sansa he has her sing a song at knife point then tears off his cloak and leaves. Thats Sansa VII in ACOK. Later and I'm not sure if its ASOS or AFFC she misremembers that scene and imagines that Sandor kissed her. Which is very interesting and makes me wonder how HBO would portray an inaccurate memory.
So yeah, Littlefinger wins creepiest Sansa kiss by default.
Kenny GillespieQuote Reply
Ah… okay. Well, I don't hold that against him, since I feel that it was absolutely right thing to do. There are certain things even a king cannot ask you to do (such as kill your own father, let the whole city be destroyed) and if that line is crossed, it's okay to rebel, no matter what's your position.
I also approve Ned's principle (if you are going to kill someone, you better do it yourself instead of making someone else do the dirty job).
But the morality of kingslaying isn't simple and I can understand that everyone isn't going to find Jaime's deed acceptable
NemoQuote Reply
And some music for the occasion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoCZEmfnE-M
NemoQuote Reply
I never really hate Sansa or her chapters, I just get frustrated by her lack of understanding, her naivety and not getting out of Dodge, so to speak. You can blame Septa Mordane for that and also her mother. I am sure Cat was responsible for her hiring and thus placing the wrong tutor and trainer in her daughter's care. She chose a by the book, stern but dimwitted Septa, one who valued ideals and proper womanly virtue (more than likely main reason Cat liked her), over a highly intelligent, intuitive, cunning Septa, who understood the machinations of a court. I can almost be assured that Cersei, the Queen of Thorns, the Sand Snakes had such Septa's tutoring them, for their mothers and fathers knew what type of Septa was needed and required.
So I reserve my hate for Septa Mordane, hopefully HBO will make her death more interesting in the series, so I can cheer when it occurs.
TysnowQuote Reply
Actually Sansa mentions the kiss in both Swords and Feast, in Swords she is thinking "Sansa wondered what Megga would think about kissing the Hound, as she had. He'd come to her the night of the battle stinking of wine and blood. He kissed me and threatened to kill me, and made me sing him a song." and then in Feast again it is reinforced "As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak." My thinking is that GRRM purposely omitted what really happened in CoK, so that Sansa's memories are awakened slowly over time by future events until we the readers and she realize what really took place that night. Its possible that the kiss is all that was suppressed in Sansa's memory, or perhaps George will reveal more concerning that night in future chapters, it would be a interesting theory to follow.
Thanks to paulgude for the references.
TysnowQuote Reply
I disagree. What was in CoK was what really happened. Sansa's way of remembering it are an indication of her having suppressed feelings for the Hound. I could be wrong, but I don't think there are any instances of 'on screen' scenes be misreported. There are plenty of instances of memories being wrong and flashbacks lacking details, but I think on screen stuff is what actually happened.
Kenny GillespieQuote Reply
As expected, no GAME OF THRONES at San Diego Comic-Con. TRUE BLOOD will be present, but nothing for GoT:
http://seat42f.com/index.php/comic-con-othermenu-…
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
It doesn't really say "these shows will be presented and nothing more".
sjweningsQuote Reply
Yeah, I don't think this is a guarantee that it won't be there.
I expect it is unlikely there will be a Thrones panel, just due to the timing of the event, but AFAIK nothing has been confirmed either way yet.
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
Bummer, however I did see a promo for a pre-show of True Blood this week in where they are going to address/preview all their upcoming productions. Not sure how far in the future this will be going but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for some kind of Thrones mention.
dizzy34Quote Reply
Yeah, there's the disclaimer:
"Check back for more updates as all of the studios and networks have had their big Comic Con meetings and are now starting to get their confirmations. Complete details should start to roll out over the next week. We will continue to update this list as we get word from the studios and networks on other shows and movies making the trip to San Diego."
Now, since we have shows from Fox, ABC, CBS, USA, NBC, Showtime, SyFy, Starz, and HBO listed, I take that to mean that they're still waiting for more news from networks that they've already heard from.
Just as a "for instance," I can't believe Warehouse 13 wouldn't have some presence at Comicon. Would NBC *really* not have their new superhero show "The Cape" skip it?
The only thing this announcement could have done was *confirm* Game of Thrones, if it was listed there. The fact that it isn't listed doesn't disprove the idea that Game of Thrones could have some presence there.
Like GRRM said back in September, I wouldn't make plans to go to Comicon with the express purpose of seeing Game of Thrones content, but we already know the ASoIaF calendar is debuting there:
http://grrm.livejournal.com/143463.html
GRRM also mentioned that he may be attending this year:
http://grrm.livejournal.com/143055.html?thread=94…
I'm not denying there's a chance that HBO would skip Comicon, but I honestly don't see why, unless they're planning to push back the release date from Spring 2011 to Summer 2011 and are planning to hit the NEXT Comicon instead.
It's seems weird to miss out on a once-a-year marketing opportunity when the series is definitely going to happen, even if it seems "too far away."
paulgudeQuote Reply
I wish we had a definite start date. "The end of July," leaves a window where a panel would still be possible, a vague hope that could be ignored if, say, "The end of July" meant July 22nd instead of, say, any time between July 27th and July 31st.
paulgudeQuote Reply
To anyone from HBO who might be reading this, if you ARE in fact skipping the San Diego Comicon because you feel it's too early to start publicizing Game of Thrones there, I'd like to remind you that Seattle's Emerald City Comicon is being held March 4th – 6th, 2011:
http://www.emeraldcitycomicon.com/
Talk about good timing, eh? Eh?
(I'm a desperate man.)
paulgudeQuote Reply
It does seem a little early to be doing an event like this, considering they will have either just started shooting or not even started yet by then. On the other hand, this is pretty much THE convention and the show will already be airing by this time next year, so maybe they'd want to scrape up what they can and make a teaser presentation.
ChrisQuote Reply
I cannot imagine HBO excluding GoT from Comic-Con, it is the largest geek fest event on the planet, with compreshensive international coverage, talk about free advertising going a long way.
I can see either a minimum presence, such as a small pavilion with info, banners and posters, to a larger exhibit with extras in costume (which they should have an ample supply of by then), a shortened version of that HBO trailer, along with a small q&a session with George, 2 or 3 of the cast and either D or D present will be perfect. In my opinion the bigger the GoT experience the more free press coverage, but that experience needs to be quality over quantity.
Also I need to point out that Comic-con will be the major promotional event for Studios releasing movies in summer 2011, so it is the perfect event to have a quality GoT experience.
TysnowQuote Reply
I cannot imagine HBO excluding GoT from Comic-Con, it is the largest geek fest event on the planet, with compreshensive international coverage, talk about free advertising going a long way.
I can see either a minimum presence, such as a small pavilion with info, banners and posters, to a larger exhibit with extras in costume (which they should have an ample supply of by then), a shortened version of that HBO trailer, also posters with some of the cast in costume. In my opinion the bigger the GoT experience the more free press coverage, but that experience needs to be quality over quantity. Personally I feel having a small q&a session with George, 2 or 3 of the cast and either D or D present will be perfect.
Also I need to point out that Comic-con will be the major promotional event for Studios releasing movies in summer 2011, so it is the perfect event to have a quality GoT experience.
TysnowQuote Reply
I know it’s OT, but I didn’t get a chance to comment on it yet.
Am I the only one who thinks the Hodor audition video we saw of Kristian Nairn was very interesting? I admit the video is very amateurish, the location was ill chosen (not enough space to walk around), the man needs cardio training (or to quit smoking as some other poster suggested, although for all we know this could be his 50th take, it could be very hot outside or his short breath could be caused by nerves) and he should have tried to render the “Hodor” line with different intonations and emotions, but still…
If I was a casting agent and got that video, I would be very interested in seeing more of this guy. I mean, in addition to the basic requirements that the man is strong as a bull and that he looks like a very likeable, gentle giant, his build is quite unique, especially the large chest and shoulders, his facial features are worthy of a cartoon character and his awkward walk is priceless!
I believe with a little cardio training and a Bran telling him where to go instead of making gestures over his head where he can’t see, he could make a great Hodor.
And I’m sure like most people, he would be quite capable of saying “Hodor” with different intonations if asked to, although I agree some actors might convey more emotions and be more convincing than others, but we haven’t seen him try, so I can’t judge further than that.
His physique just struck me as very unique and TV-material.
NymeriaQuote Reply
Doing a full-blown SDCC panel is hardly free advertising. David, Dan and whatever cast members they might send aren't going to fly to San Diego on their own dime. ;)
It has to be one of the more expensive ways to market your product, but as you say, it is wide-reaching. It's up to HBO to weigh the pros and cons and decide if it is worth it or not.
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
HBO had a True Blood panel at Comicon back in 2008 before the show's debut that September. The only reason I could see them not doing it is the basically one-month wait for True Blood verses an eight month wait for Game of Thrones (if they decide to launch in April, like Treme did this year.)
paulgudeQuote Reply
hes from northern ireland. therefore nymeria i can categorically state its not hot outside. lol
but i agree. hodor needs good direction – i dont want people new to the show and books to just poke fun at him. hes a ledge in this young mans opinion.
tho as we learn from jewel(??) in deadwood hbo handle this kind of topic head on. im just stoked that they are making the show
GazQuote Reply
Of course it's not exactly Free free, there's floor rental, round trip tickets for 4-5 people, one-two nights lodging and meals and the cost of shipping a few costumes to San Diego, along with other material and then there's those required to operate the exhibit, but to me it is worth the attention, and press coverage present at the event. There is afterall only one event possibly as big in scope and that's E3, even ShoWest pales to Comic-Con.
The films and shows that will be promoted at Comic-Con will be slated for release in late 2010 through summer 2011, so GoT fits into that timetable.
Of course if they have an exhibit they would need to plan and start preparing now as the event is in 7 weeks.
TysnowQuote Reply
Another thing is that it will be around the time when they start filming. Now I don't work in the business but I imagine its an INCREDIBLY busy time for those involved with the production(actors, directors, producers, all the other set jobs) with lots of deadlines. Flying even a few of those people out and having a setup at ComicCon is not only expensive but probably really disruptive.
I dunno, it seems to me that the show is too much in its infancy for them to be worrying about this type of thing right now. Though I would imagine they have at least discussed whether they should or not.
ChrisQuote Reply
I know it's know that Game of Thrones is not a game but GENCON is in August… it's more for board games and card games and what-not but lots of nerds that are into fantasy WILL be in attendance. Including myself.
ScottQuote Reply
I'm still not sure about the timing, but we have a report that at least one of the directors is "showing up to work" this week. I don't know if that means D&D will be there or not, or if they'd leave for a convention. If it's the case where they're still in LA and can make it to San Diego BEFORE leaving, that's an entirely different issue.
Again, knowing when the shooting actually will start could help figure out if there's even a slim possibility.
Still, it all depends on what sort of a presence they might have, too. I imagine a panel with D&D would be nice, but would a panel with GRRM and a few of the actors work as well? They wouldn't be shooting in Belfast and Morocco at the same time, would they? Is there a chance Momoa will be showing up to Comicon to promote Conan?
paulgudeQuote Reply
IIRC, either TV shows and companies pay to exhibit their show at Comic-Con (through panels or appearances) or Comic-Con pays these people to turn up, as they will drag thousands of fans through the doors by themselves.
In neither circumstance can I see a reason why GoT would be put on display at Comic-Con. HBO would either have to pay to show up or the Comic-Con organisers have to pay to get them to come along. Given we're a year out from transmission and 99% of Comic-Con attendees will have never heard of the books or the TV series, why bother, especially given that space on the schedule will be at a premium?
However, Bantam Books and the various comic companies producing work based on GRRM's properties will be present at the fringes of the event (the TV and movie stuff is the big draw), and between the new comic version of FEVRE DREAM and the production company behind THE SKIN TRADE shopping the project to the big studios on the business side of events, that explains why GRRM may be present. Hell, maybe hell will freeze over and he'll be there doing a signing to celebrate completing ADWD.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
I believe Fantasy Flight will be at GenCon with their new BATTLES OF WESTEROS game and likely Green Ronin with their ongoing SONG OF ICE AND FIRE roleplaying game. GRRM has been asked to attend before but I think has previously bowed out because it used to clash with Worldcon, but Worldcon is now a month later, so it's possible he would attend. I suspect highly unlikely unless he finishes ADWD first, however.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
I have been rereading that CoK Sansa chapter, and the image that sticks in my mind the most is her going over and picking up The Hounds cloak, smelling of blood, sweat and smoke and wrapping herself in it and then sitting on the floor. The Sansa I knew at that point would never consider it and would actually be appalled by the thought, even if it was chilly, so what changed. It is almost like she wanted to feel the comfort of Sandor and his smell encompassing her. Could this scene symbolize a change in her nature and maturity, it seems that from this point on she begins to control her emotions, showing signs of strength and courage, suppressing fear and learning to think for herself, albeit slowly at times.
TysnowQuote Reply
For me, what you're saying is that I should hate all 13 year old girls, rather than I should like Sansa. Just because there are real people like her doesn't mean I have to think she's good.
pualoQuote Reply
"Given we're a year out from transmission and 99% of Comic-Con attendees will have never heard of the books or the TV series, why bother…"
1) By the time Comicon happens, we won't be a year out, we'll be 3/4th of a year out and the 1/4 of the year that's missing from the equation will be when the next Comicon happens. If they want to do anything at Comicon before their show premiers, this is the only time they can do it. As an example, a trailer for the Wolverine movie was shown at the 2008 Comicon even though the movie wasn't going to come out until May 1, 2009.
2) I'm not sure I agree with the 99% figure, but you've hit upon *exactly* why I think they might bother. Comicon is a place full of many people of whom the majority would be interested in a well-done fantasy TV series. I personally don't believe the cost would outweigh the benefit of reaching that many people.
Again, though, it's not going to break my heart if they don't show. I'll just be a bit surprised.
paulgudeQuote Reply
One thing I'm thinking is that they may have teaser posters at the HBO booth for the event, and maybe HBO will release some new stills from the pilot for the occasion, but more than that I just can't really see happening, certainly not a panel of any kind (the panels will be more likely to be going to established shows and big movies coming up). I would, of course, love to be proven wrong on that score.
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Yeah, my main argument is against the idea that Game of Thrones will have no representation at Comicon.
What form this takes remains to be seen, but I am pretty confident that a lot of people will be leaving knowing more about Game of Thones than when they went in.
I think a few stills and a teaser poster at the HBO booth is kind of one end of the spectrum, a large panel with GRRM, D&D, and all of the "name" stars plus the entire prologue with VFX and fully mixed sound is the other.
Laying those out, I have absolutely no position as to where in the spectrum their actual presentation will wall. Anyone saying the high end is impossible won't get an argument with me, and neither will anyone who thinks the low end is too little. I have no clue, just a feeling that they wouldn't let the one Comicon before the show's debut pass by without some representation.
paulgudeQuote Reply
wow. people are idiots.
LaurenQuote Reply
Well, it's the one San Diego Comic-Con, but not the only event. You also have DragonCon, the New York and a few smaller Comic-Cons, even the London Comic-Con which takes place a week or two before filming commences, so it's possible something will happen somewhere to draw attention to the project.
Anyway, the Hollywood Reporter confirms that GoT will not be having a panel. Some kind of lower-level presence is not ruled out:
http://livefeed.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/06/com…
Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
Huh, "Glee," at Comicon but no, "Game of Thrones."
The mind boggles.
Well, that's much more definite than it just not being on a list.
At least I'm not going to feel as bad I'm not going now.
(I realize there could still be a surprise, but it's no good anticipating them, now is it?)
paulgudeQuote Reply
I'm still holding out hope for a panel at the NYCC. While it doesn't draw the 100k+ crowds that San Diego does, it gets pretty close and is growing every year. Last year it was around 80k, I believe.
The NYCC is in Oct, which means they have plenty of time to get some filming in before flying David, Dan and some cast members over. Plus it will be cheaper and easier to fly them to NYC, as opposed to San Diego. Lastly, the show's proximity to HBO's headquarters may be helpful as well.
On a more selfish note, NYC is only about an hours drive from me. So it would make it much easier for me to attend the event and give you guys some excellent coverage. :)
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
I've got my fingers crossed for NYCC as well. Since there's no hope of me getting anywhere but Emerald City Comicon, I'm going to be living vicariously through your attendance for a while.
paulgudeQuote Reply
The only other thing to hope for would be some sort of "lateral" Game of Thrones action at Comicon, someone involved in the production appearing on some other panel and getting asked a question about it.
Although, except for maybe Momoa (if he doesn't start filming with everyone else) or GRRM, I can't think of who else that would be.
paulgudeQuote Reply
Jaime Campbell Bower? He might be there for Deathly Hallows, I don't know. Of course, he's busy filming Camelot now.
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
Honestly, I think HBO should just pay to fly Harry Lloyd out to SDCC so he can just walk around and talk to people about Game of Thrones individually.
He's my favorite pitchman for the series so far.
paulgudeQuote Reply
As noted in another thread, GRRM has said the definite start date is July 26th:
http://grrm.livejournal.com/155522.html?thread=10…
Worth noting that July 26th is the exact date outside of my "a panel would still be possible" window above.
Had this information been known yesterday, my hopes wouldn't have been dashed this morning.
I never liked the "too early for publicity" angle, but the "not enough time before shooting starts" angle? I get that for sure.
paulgudeQuote Reply
I'm not telling you should do anything. Sansa does what she does. The reader can decide for him or herself if that's "good" or "bad". Nevertheless, I find Sansa a very "real" character, for good or ill.
@K26dpQuote Reply