Jhogo and Gendry cast

Well…Jendry is gonna need some sort of makeover if they want to make him look like a Baratheon that he is.
(p.s. Gathered some pics of both actors here.)

Gendry would have been a role I would have LOVED to have played. But please put that aside for this next comment, as I’m so happy and excited for the cast members it’s not even funny. But their choice for Gendry is the first I’ve seen that I’m not sure I agree with. Still, everyone else has been perfect so I’m hoping to be pleasantly surprised when it airs :)

Omg I’m not going to be able to take Gabel seriously in that role at all….he was too….naive in Casualty and I’ll just be sat there giggling saying ‘omg it’s guppy!’

That said he’s not a bad actor, lets see how he does. As for Gendry….I’m going to wait until I see him before I say anything…he doesn’t look like I’d imagined, but I’ll shut up….

As far as I could see: 22 minutes on Gendry, 3 hours 25 minutes on Jhogo, all over before I even get to check the site…

Oh my god, I love Joe Dempsie! He was sooo good in Skins, he’s such a great actor. We had better get season 2 now so he gets some decent screentime!

Seriously, in terms of casting gold this is right up there with Bean, Dinklage and Lloyd for me. Yay!

4! Go me!

Shinyteapot: I never liked the idea of a Gendry/Arya romance anyway- she was very young when they met (more likely to still be at the ‘boys smell’ stage) and it came across simply as a sweet friendship to me. Quote  Reply

I agree. I have always felt that was a seriously dodgy fan relationship. He’s basically an adult, she’s a preteen, an old acting preteen, but still. Just never sat right as an idea for me.

In the middle portion of A Storm of Swords, Gendry is pretty clearly frustrated over the fact that Arya is too far above his station for there to be a romance between them, and is envious of Beric’s noble squire who seems to have that rank, and the easy way he deals with Arya. Earlier on, I think at Lady Smallwood’s, Arya and Gendry tustle in a way that seems very much like a budding romance.

Dempsie, however, made his part in one episode of Merlina very memorable one. He might make Gendry a little more nuanced, which would be fine since Gendry will be older.

This casting does make me wonder what they will do with Mya Stone, even if they hold her off to Season Four, which seems fairly likely now. She should be older than Gendry.

I was never on board with an actual Gendry/Arya romance, so the aging up doesn’t bother me. Maybe the two of them could get together when/if she grows up, but in Westeros, who gets happy endings? Currently, in the series, Gendry is in his midteens, I believe, and Arya’s like 10. So even in the book context, there would be no romance. I’ve never seen Dempsie in anything, but I like that he’s not some pretty boy, he looks a little rough.
I think there’s so little romance happening that the readers create absurd couples, like Sandor/Sansa.

Uh, yah– people aren’t making things up between Sansa and Sandor. Martin clearly puts in some tell-tale sequences, both in the waking and the sleeping hours, that make it pretty clear there some sort of connection. And for Sansa, perhaps something even more. It’s a pretty trippy coupling, but that’s not much of a stretch.

isenriver,

Yes, that would have been a much better choice for him.. IMHO.

Leilani Holmes,

Haha thank you for the shout out, Leilani…I have, yes. It was a brief experience, but a fun one…I’d love to do more blacksmithing. But it definitely takes it out of you, if you do it properly–there’s often lots of impurities to get out of whatever metal you’re working with. That being said, I suppose it depends how realistic the actor wants to be, or is allowed to be, etc…and naturally he won’t be actually at a forge all day working metal and making horned helms :) That being said, I tend to agree…Arnold Schwarzenegger isn’t required, but I think he should at least be fairly toned and fit etc.

As for swordplay and cracking bullwhips, I’ve much more experience in that, and while that also can get you very tired very quickly, it’s a lot of fun! Hahah I think I’m the only person I know (probably a good thing) who has a couple deep scars from swords and fencing foils :P

In the end though, he was cast I suppose so all we can do is hope he prepares for it appropriately and does the part justice. Still can’t wait to see it all come together! :)

Looks like I missed the fun once again!…

Gabel has the right look.

As for Dempsie…. this is my first honnest diappointment with casting. Gendry is one of my favorite characters. To me, his charms reside in the fact that he’s the son of a king (a bastard one, but still) but thinks he’s nothing more than a low born blacksmith who can’t even pretend to have a right to address a lady and the fact that he seems totally unaware of his attractiveness, which Arya (who’s the POV through wich we see him) obviously downplays since 1) she’s young and 2) she kinda tries to deny being attracted by a guy, since that’s too much of a girly thing for her (she doesn’t moon over pretty boys, that’s her sister’s thing). Yet, GRRM hints at this attractiveness by describing his very muscular build and his resemblance with Renly and young Robert.

I’m not sure I’d call it a romance, but to me, there was definitely a crush. I notice a lot of those against this notion are men. yes, Arya is young and Gendry is quite older than her. But as a woman, I perfectly remember me and my friends developing crushes on older guys at school, on some older cousins we rarely see, on a friend’s older brother or on movie and TV actors definetely too old for us as early as 11-12 years old. It wasn’t actual love and we all knew it wouldn’t (and didn’t really want it to) lead to anything real, but it’s part of becoming aware of the other sex. There’s nothing eww about it.

So I’m disappointed because to me, based on a few pictures alone I grant you, Dempsei doesn’t fit that attractiveness requirement. But he’s ok. And the fact that everyone who saw him in Skins seem to praise him heartens me a little. But he HAS to tone up.

Nymeria: But he HAS to tone up.  Quote  Reply

Why? Do Lena Heady HAVE to use padding in her bra because Cersei is supposed to be voluptous?

SteveThePirate2: I think that Gendry, since he’s a blacksmith, doesn’t have to be toned, he just needs upper body strength/muscles. Blacksmiths can be fat, there just need to be some strength under the bulk to wield the hammer and handle the iron. Realistically, Dempsie can keep his own body and just work his arms and shoulders, if he wants to be lazy about it.  Quote  Reply

You’re forgetting about teh hotness, which is really what these girls here care about anyway. Did i say that?

Nymeria,

I feel same about the Gendry and Arya. It’s a “almost a crush” on Arya’s part. I always thought Gendry treated Arya like a younger sister or cousin. I have always been bothered way the romance talk around the internet about these two. I mean, those kids have been fearing for their lives sent they left King’s Landing. They just want to stay alive.

As for Joe Dempsie, I haven’t seen him in anything so I will wait to see how he looks and acts when the show is finally on in 2011.

Iv liked all casting cept Gendery Sean Bourke would have been a good choice

Jason S: Iv liked all casting cept Gendery Sean Bourke would have been a good choice  Quote  Reply

Really? http://www.flickr.com/photos/kaizfeng/2934734694/

Narwen,

Thats cool, I love these fan made promo pics. They definanty look like they could be related in that picture.

I hope for some sexual/romantic tension between Sansa/The hound. Yes, it IS very inappropriate, but as long as the Hound himself does not act out on it, and don’t show it too much (it should mostly be from Sansa) it will work in a nicely uncomfortable way. It’s not supposed to be your perfect, romantic fairytale anyway.

As far as Arya/Gendry goes – i really think that in the books, theres a little crush that goes both ways – but i guess it’ll only go one way in the series. Gendry is not a disturbed individual, so i guess he’ll just have big brotherly feelings toward Arya. Who wouldn’t?

sjwenings,

Yeah, I think if we get a S2 there will be romantic overturns with the Hound and Sansa. As for S1, I really hope the director goes for a tenderness aspect for the last scene with Sansa and Sandor (on the outer wall of the Red Keep). I know that when I read the last Sansa chapter of AGOT, Sandor’s actions really surprised me. Tenderness can lead to romance…..

I want to add that I am in the Sandor/Sansa romance is totally inappropriate camp. It is confusing and hard to understand for both the Hound, Sansa and the readers. Just what GRRM wanted….

sjwenings,

Gaahhh! Which would ofcourse – NOT result in big muscles.

…and if you need more: To bulid any kind of significant muscle, you need to work out (maximum) 1 hour every other day (yes, that little) and eat around 500 calories more than you need each day and eat about 4 grams of protein for each pound you weigh and eat only slow carbohydrates and healthy fats.

For someone (like Gendry) – you would probably work (out) about 7 or more hours a day(!) with rather lacking nutrition. I don’t see him building much muscle at all.

And again: If this does not satisfy you, then it’s clearly about some semi-sexual fantasy rather than realism, as you claim.

Nymeria: sjwenings, who said Gendry wasn’t well fed? Somebody at court (was it Varys) was paying for him to be well kept.Fine then. Have him as narrow-shouldered and bony as any other boys. And don’t forget to educate GRRM on his inaccurate image of an apprentice blacksmith build.   Quote  Reply

I highly doubt they knew much about the relation between pure protein and slow carbohydrates and healthy fats “back then” or in Martins world or whatever. And the difference between one hard hours workout every other day and 7 or more light workout every day should be obvious even to those that know shit about muclebuilding.

And how is “most boys” narrow shouldered and so forth?Most boys are “normally build” – the expression says it all – “normal”.

As far as GRRMs ideas of Blacksmith boys goes: It really does not matter, as the girl i was responding to seemed to think that a blacksmith apprentice would be muscular – which is quite wrong, no matter what her and your softcore-porn fantasies say.

Just to clarify: The fantasy character Gendry is probably quite muscular. But as soon as swoonish, horny, single girls start to claim realism is the source of their craving for muscular guys in this and that role, my eyes start moving upwards.

Leilani Holmes: Hey man.. I didn’t write the book, or the casting brief. But yanno.. not gonna complain if there’s a few well defined arms & tight abs in the show!  Quote  Reply

Sure. Gendry should (ideally) be pretty beefy.

I’m just commenting on how its “always” the girls that think a lack of muscles on the guys is a big problem, while the women looking less than what their character description says, really does not matter. I know us guys complain about women in the same way, so… yeah.

Jake Stormoen,

Ouch! When people get tired swinging a sword around, even when properly choreographed it can be more dangerous. They’ve got real armourers too which can make it all heavy work. I’m sure you know!

But there is a GREAT stunt team on this show including the fabulous Buster Reeves and the fight scenes should be revealing about the way the characters interract.

I have to say, despite for the first time, being less than excited with this casting news, I’m looking forward to seeing how it all pans out on the fight scene!

I think it’s normal for people to be attracted to other people of all ages. The only reason they don’t get together is because of societal pressures. Take those pressures away, and you’d see all kinds of strange pairings.

pualo: sjwenings, Can we get some confirmation that these girls are horny and single?  Quote  Reply

I doubt that very much. It’s mostly my sexist assumptions…

sjwenings:
I doubt that very much. It’s mostly my sexist assumptions…    

you do seem quite bitter about the fact that the women (and a few men) are complaining that certain characters aren’t toned enough for the characters – I mean are you really scrawny or something? It just seems to be all you are going on about in this thread.

As for Gendry ‘probably not eating enough to build the appropriate muscle’ – well it’s a know fact within history/archaeology circles that during the medieval period people were built more stockily then we are currently. You think about all the exercise they did back then – especially a blacksmith. And a boy expected to work that hard would have to have eaten decently in order to maintain their strength.

So Gendry – being described as a well built young man in the book – was more than likely well built, as Renly would have been, and Loras, and every other male character who fought/worked extremely hard for a living.

It’s not women ‘complaining’ – we’re being realistic, these characters can’t be skin and bone – their lifestyles just wouldn’t be able to be supported by a body build like that.

Am I the only person here who thinks Dempsie is spot on? TBH I never saw Gendry as “hot”. I pictured him as awkward mainly, and a little bigger than average, but certainly not muscular. I think “bulky” when I think “blacksmith,” and I reckon Dempsie could do a pretty good job of it.

sjwenings,

No, I suppose a degree in archaeology and medieval history would tell me nothing about the differences between humans now and then, not one thing about the thickness of bones and the indentations on them from muscle and the fact that it was more normal during the medieval period (on both men and women), nor that you can roughly what sort of work a person did from the amount or lack thereof of muscle. So no, I have no idea what I’m talking about…obviously.

Seriously though, I know that there is a difference between being built and having muscle – I know that most people who tone up do not have any muscle strength whatsoever. As for ‘all’ women complaining about the size of men, I can’t really talk for all of them – much like you can’t make the assumption that all women complain about it.

Sarah: sjwenings, No, I suppose a degree in archaeology and medieval history would tell me nothing about the differences between humans now and then, not one thing about the thickness of bones and the indentations on them from muscle and the fact that it was more normal during the medieval period (on both men and women), nor that you can roughly what sort of work a person did from the amount or lack thereof of muscle. So no, I have no idea what I’m talking about…obviously. Seriously though, I know that there is a difference between being built and having muscle – I know that most people who tone up do not have any muscle strength whatsoever. As for ‘all’ women complaining about the size of men, I can’t really talk for all of them – much like you can’t make the assumption that all women complain about it.  Quote  Reply

Thats somewhat impressive, but it does not mean that the other girls here knew anything whatsoever about the build of people “in those days” if that even HAS to have anything to do with the world of ASOIAF anyways….

And i know not “all” women think that way… But the majority of the people that DO think muscle is so important here IS in fact women, eventhough theres mostly guys here anyway. So how do we explain that fenomenon? …yeah…

Steve B,

I’ll just keep it short: Agreed.

sjwenings, I realize that I am powerless to keep ondescending mansplanation out of my fandom, but nevertheless: keep your condescending mansplanation out of my fandom.

Aoede,

Nah…

Aoede,

Wait, I thought his point was to illustrate the lack of a sexual double standard on these topics.

sjwenings: pualo,
You’re very wrong. It’s generally considered okay to be less than satisfied with a male actors looks around here, but to consider a female actor anything less than satisfactory will deem you an asshole. I know from experience, oh yes!    

You don’t think that being seen as an asshole is related perhaps to your behaviour on this thread?

And frankly, as a man, I think the reactions of some men here to some of the female castings (both positive and negative) have been churlish bordering on disgusting. I’ve held my tongue and so have others no doubt in the spirit of harmony, but I’ve been surprised by how benignly the women here have reacted to it. Whereas here, at the very slightest hint of possible sexualisation, any woman passing gets harangued by your preconceptions, though they have spoken far more mildly and with far more justification than some of us did as regards the actresses.

There does seem to be a double standard: men can be coarse, even explicit, not to mention derogatory, objectifying and demeaning, almost hate-filled when a woman hasn’t been as ‘beautiful’ as the fans have expected, and this passes with almost no mention. But for some people, the merest suggestion that women might have sexual feelings seems to result in bitterness – I’m unsure how a man can care so much as to haunt a thread for a day muttering his allegations.

In any case, it’s hardly unreasonable that many people, both male and female (and count myself here, as a male) might feel that for an actor to convincingly portray a blacksmith might require that he have at least the physicality to look as though he can LIFT a hammer, let alone use it. The history of it and the biology are frankly secondary – I know that people who look weak can actually be very strong.* But reality has a special dispensation that fiction does not have: fiction has to work harder to convince. And I think many people will be unconvinced by a pretty boy as a blacksmith.

[This is not to say that he can't play Gendry. Because I also know that between acting and costuming people can be made to look physically quite different. But it would be a bit of an issue for me.]

*Sidenote: I’m always reminded on this note of Jan Zelezny, the javelin thrower. You’d see these Nordic javelin-throwers, immense, giant, muscle-bound, come up and throw massive throws… and consistently get thrashed by Zelezny, who much of the time looked like some random homeless guy shambled in off the streets.

I think it’s fairly balanced. Some people complain about male actors, and some people complain about those people. Other people complain about female actors, and some other people complain about those people. By and large, I don’t think there’s much overlap between any of those four groups.

The first two groups are heard the most, because the first group is the most numerous and the second group is the most vocal.

sjwenings,

Wow. Settle down. The only person trolling this thread with irrelevant information, opinions, or details, is you. Everyone here is here because we’re excited to see Martin’s masterpiece have life breathed into it in a new way, and any concerns stemming from this casting announcement were done in the spirit of wanting that new awakening to be done in the best way possible.

In my twenty-two years on this earth, I’ve been blessed to have lived all over the world and known a myriad of incredible people and personalities; spanning everything from historians, war-time heroes, arctic explorers, award winning actors, authors, producers, and even lifetime blacksmiths, farm hands, and olympians. My views are the way they are because of what I’ve SEEN and who I’ve KNOWN. They come from first hand experiences, not scattered internet articles.

So please, TRUST me when I say that people I know who have spent the first two decades of their life on a farm, are in FAR better shape than many others I’ve met. And the blacksmiths I’ve encountered have not had gym bodies, but have been undeniably strong in their upper bodies from the second you lay eyes on them. Your disciplined gym regime fits todays person who spends their time in an office or behind a counter for a living, which is 90% of us.

All that being said, people on here have made comments based solely on what was WRITTEN by George R.R. Martin (That’s who created Gendry, by the way. He didn’t research him, or uncover facts about him. He created him how he thought he should be, based on who he was), and by the casting director. They’re surprised by the choice because of what was previously expressed as a prerequisite to the character.

So I’ll only say this once, and then I’ll leave the trolling to you: Please, for all our sakes, close your teeth and stop your hands from touching the keyboard for a while. We’re all here in a well spirited notion of supporting the cast, the series, and Mr Martin himself–NOT to tear everyone else apart for what they imagined in their head the first time they read the stories. Opinions vary, and that’s fine. Tearing someone apart for their opinions, is not.

So let it go.

Peltast,

Agreed about Gregor, but I’m not sure Alayaya’s race matters much in her character’s story, unless I’m forgetting something. I hope they keep her dark, simply because Westeros is pretty white so far except for the bloodriders.

SteveThePirate2,

But the Bloodriders aren’t in Westeros…

Steve B: For whomever was blown away by the concept that two cousins might have a crush on each other. Well, I dunno, that’s just not so weird at a young age. I’m not saying they should get married. Same goes for the *amazing* concept that two young people that are not the same age might have something of a crush on one another. I’m not saying it’s normal, or even accepted by the standards of most, but it’s just not so freaky to me. Do I have some sort of random arbitary breaking point in age difference? Yeah, of course– 18 to 10 would weird me out. 15 to 8. But somehow 15 to 11 just doesn’t. I’m not trying to ship them or something, it just never freaked me out. Gendry seems a little immature, Arya pretty mature for her age. They meet, mentally, some where in the middle. She’s the leader, he’s the follower.I just don’t understand what the big deal is. I mean, why do (most) people have their qualms about Daernys having sex and a baby with Drogo at 13, but end up accepting it as a loving relationship, whereas the idea that Gendry and Arya having a crush on each other with such a smaller age difference seems insane to so many?  Quote  Reply

That sort of sums up the way I feel about it too. A platonic affection at a young age is quite sweet really. I don’t forsee any problems with it if the character relationship takes that direction in the show. I’m sure it would be done in a charming innocent way, not a lecherous one.

GaR,

Meh, they’re near it. I mean the GRRM world. I’m pretty sure you knew what I meant.

pualo,

Oh fuck I meant the last two groups, not the first two.

I think the interaction betweem Arya and Gendry is very sweet, in the book, and a sort of parallel/homage to Robert and Lyanna, right down to the one-sidedness. Boy likes girl, girl would rather act like a wolf and bite people. Or wrestle people twice their size in a forge. I always got the feeling that George was writing the interactions between Gendry and Arya with a bit more subtlety, given their ages. Arya doesn’t dream about handsome princes, she’s interested in adventure and excitement. But at the same time, her reactions to Hot Pie leaving their group was quite different than when Gendry left. And I think Gendry’s protectiveness over Arya in certain situations showed both a brotherly and romantic inclination. It’s hard to tell with it being Arya’s pov — she’s not looking for romantic cues, so she wouldn’t necessarily see them. In the forge, after she’s been bathed and looks like “a proper girl”, he sniffs her. Then instigates her into wrestling with him (which did not take much provocation — she’s a wolf, and she bites). He’s embarrased that she knows what brothels are, protective when an old guy makes advances with her, then frustrated because of her naivete and lack of class distinction. (He takes her being a lady seriously, she treats it flippantly unless it suits her).

I find it kind of odd that people are bothered with chaste interactions that Arya and Gendry have had, as opposed to the interactions of Sansa and the Hound, or Dany and Drogo. The two latter being quite squicky (YMMV), certainly complicated and nuanced (which I tip my hat to George for writing them as such and not cliched interactions), but still squicky to me. Gendry, if I recall, is 14, and Arya was 9 or 10. In a modern perspective, we consider that a vast difference between levels of maturity, now, but in the past? I think a five year difference in age would be considerably preferable than getting betrothed to some dude in his 30′s. Or 50′s.

I’m totally rooting for a Gendry/Arya reunion by the end of the series, but that’s just me.

As to the casting… well, now seeing those scenes, if they are done verbatim, will definately take on a more brotherly/sisterly interaction, unless they take it into the squick territory. Of course, this is all applying our modern sensibilities for medieval ones, discussing “shipping” younger characters and older ones. As to Joe’s musclature, I really don’t care, as long as he can heft his blacksmith hammer and not look like he’s going to fall over. If he ever uses it as a weapon — which would be completely awesme — I would hope that it looks right as opposed to ridiculous.

My two (long winded) cents.

Nymeria,

I totally agree with every word! Although he isn’t one of my fave characters, your analysis is spot on!

I am trying to watch as many shows and movies with cast members of GOT I’m not so familiar with…just watched Virtuality starring you know who…I thought it was terrible…he was ok… I was impressed with Clea Duvall …she’s been mentioned before by some as their choice for Brienne ?…I now think she’d be great but she is very small…

Sara,

It’s possible that Gendry is very naive for his age, or simply more of a gentleman than most teenage boys. But at about 14-15, when boys have a crush, from what I understand they usually *think* about sex. Many would be too nervous or unsure to actually do anything, but most will be at the very least staring in fascination at their braver friends’ soft porn magazines. Some of course will already be engaging in sexual experimentation with their girlfriends (or boyfriends) by that point. Some will never have kissed anyone.

If Gendry were a little younger, I’d find it easier to believe- and would have no issue with the appropriateness. But unless I got the ages very wrong when reading the book, he’s a teenager.

Shinyteapot,

Okay, so its more unlikely to you that Gendry could be interested in Arya in that manner, nevertheless chastely or not, being a mere four years older, whereas Tyrion and Littlefinger (and possibly Sandor given how some fans ship) and many others show copious amount of interest in Sansa, who is only two years older than Arya. (Her inheritence nonwithstanding). And Drogo for Dany, being 13 at the time.

I’m kind of failing to follow the logic a bit here. =\

Shinyteapot,

Ugh, it had to double post while I was editting, of course.

See, I think this is where the disconnect is. Mentally, Arya is older than her sister, even at the current-most arc in the series. Sansa basically drifts through events, passively, barely following along as others set her up as a pawn through various events. Arya takes her own destiny into her hands at every chance she gets. They’re both victims of circumstances, the difference being in that Arya actually tries to do anything about it. Are you male? I think you’re putting modern views on a medevial setting. Sansa was eleven when betrothed to Joffrey, and twelve or thirteen when married to Tyrion. But clearly still a child, as standing naked in front of him, he says, “Gods, you’re a child.” Dany gains this, later, when she goes from relying on Jorah to taking control of her own destiny and making decisions for herself. I don’t think she gets anything close to “adult” until the third book. Arya is certainly more of an adult than Sansa, but I think you’re strictly basing it on physicality and not mentality. I’m a flat-chested chick, and I can tell you, it’s not all about physicality. I was a flat-chested teenager, and am a flat-chested adult woman, and that arguement kind of falls on deaf ears with me.

Arya is the classic archeptype of a tomboy, one I know too well. She’d rather get scraped up fighting with the boys, then gushing over them. It’ll be a long time before she’s aware of anything different. I think Gendry treats her decently, follows her orders — first because she proves far more competent to lead, then later because of her nobility — and he protects her. (Even foolishly getting himself caught by the Bloody Mummers). He’s amused and bewildered by her behaivor, and I think, quite clearly and subtlely, has a bit of a crush on her. But that isn’t really relevant in the midst of trying to survive in the middle of a war, where every stranger on the road might possibly rob and kill you. My point being that I think Gendry cares about her. To what extent lies with GRRM, and otherwise will remain up to speculation and interpretation.

And our interpretations clearly diverge on this.

Sara,

The hound does have some strange attraction to Sansa. But Tyrion I saw just felt sorry for her and Littlefinger is acting out his obession with the Tully sisters, not actully attracted to Sansa.

And just to chime in on the whole Gendry thing, you can give the imperrsion of strength without the tone and definition. Also, Hollywood has given us believable, skinny, blacksmiths before. Orlando Bloom I think pulled it off in both “Pirates of the Carribean” and “Kingdom of Heavan.”

Gee, none of my blacksmiths have been brawny. Oh yeah, one was stocky. Oh, that’s right. I have farriers and maybe not smiths, although they’ve all been remarkable metal workers

Although I had imagined Gendry as tall and well muscled. I had also imagined Robert as very tall, and let’s face it, Mark Addy is not. In fact, in all the casting, I’ve least found Addy believable. But I hold my judgment. He is an excellent actor. And I think that we fans have imaginations that make us very, very picky.

Noses can go a long way in casting actors. It’s what made David Wenham’s Faramir so believable as Sean Bean Boromir’s brother. In fact, I think Sean made a comment about the fact that they both had big noses when someone observed how much they looked like brothers

Wow, this whole conversation is too deep for me, but these are just my fleeting observations.

I don’t think anyone is outraged by Gendry and Arya’s current relationship. The debate seemed to be over whether there was one in the making. The women do seem to grow up quicker in Westeros, with Sansa & Dany being engaged/married so young by our standards.
People just have to be practical.In the series, I don’t think there will be anything with Gendry and Arya unless they recast the actress after a few years and increase her age. Maisie Williams would need to age about six years in order to make the relationship fly in front of American audiences, and I suspect the series won’t go long, given that GRRM hasn’t finished the books and he writes slowly.
Even if they had cast a sixteen year old as Gendry, Maisie/Arya would still be too young. A 16 year old dating a 10 year old would be a crime.

As for Sandor and Sansa, I’m not sure. How old is Sophie now? They still have to be careful with the sexual dynamic and the touching, because Americans get pretty uptight about 30-40-something men kissing 13 year olds.

Not sure if anyone brought this up already or not, but is the timeline still gonna hold in the series? It has been 15 years since the war. Not sure how long before the war Stannis was married, but is that when Gendry was conceived in Stannis’s wedding bed? Or was that Mya?

Eddards Bones,

That was Edric Storm, actually.

I must be only one who think Orlando Bloom looked everything but a blacksmith in that Pirates movies. Why did they cast a slender man as a blacksmith? Because him being a blacksmith didn’t have much to do with the plot. Only his look and popularity did with the advertising.

I’m generally thrilled with the whole casting, but judging on google-found pics I have to say Mr. Dempsie as Gendry is disappointing. Not that it’s a big deal… just hope he’s got the role because he did a very good job in the audition.

I’ve found this recent turn of conversation really interesting. It blows my mind to recognize how little each sex probably really knows about the adolescent experience of the opposite sex. There should be classes on this stuff for adults! :P

I’m a guy. Not a big macho one, but still, I liked girls too when I was 15. I thought Brad expressed the whole situation rather eloquently. Of course, sex was on the mind, and I could get a aroused at about anything, but that didn’t preclude the idea that I might actually like someone, or the concept of romance, or innocence, or the idea of friendships with girls that involved flirting, sort of walking the line between platonic and girlfriend. It just wasn’t as simple as “I want to get in to everyone’s pants”. And neither was I going to go around jumping in to bed with any girl, just because she was hot or some such thing. I had my own concept of morality and right and wrong.

Simply put, just because Gendry is 15 doesn’t make him a walking penis. It would seem to me that he would have other emotional needs that he’d also like met. Some sort of emotional crush on Arya (a cool girl that seeks adventure and is a tomboy) that tiptoes around the idea of sex but never really goes there (probably because he knows she’s too young for him) never seemed farfetched to me, as a guy. Of course, I’m sure other guys would think differently, but I thought I ought to chime in with a different perspective.

Still, it’s really interesting to hear all these different perspectives, spelled out so well.

Brad,

I’ve read descriptions of her being very plain and even ugly…she looked pretty good to me…I also love Brienne and am very surprised at how large the ‘ drop Brienne’ faction is here…when time comes to cast her there will be a major flame war I think…I’ve racked my mind trying to think who could play her but also having a hard time coming up with someone…

I don’t think HBO is going to shy from depicting Brienne as ugly as she is described. Calamity Jane in Deadwood ought to attest to that.

Zack,
Yeah, as a fan of Deadwood (and other HBO series) I’ve had the same thought, that they do have a good track record of portraying unsympathetic, “ugly” characters when called for. You see that do different degrees in most of their shows. But I have to admit, the casting for GOT, while awesome, is pretty uniformly “pretty”. We’ll see how deep they go with Brienne, Roose Bolton, and a few others.

Often it is a “normal” looking actor, but their acting skill makes them more “ugly”. Steve B, IMO this is like what you’re seeing with Calamity Jane. The ugliness of that character was more about her brutish behavior and personality. Interestingly, that is pretty much how it works in real life, too.. :-)

Brad,

Good point! Jane’s unceasing torrents of crudeness and vulgarity really did make most of the difference. There’s a video on YouTube “Calamity Jane – Deadwood Moments” that compiles most of her good scenes. The actress did a brilliant job with her portrayal. Seeing her acting goes a long way in showing why people perceive her as ugly. To do justice to Brienne, the actress is just going to need to exude awkwardness. Someone larger and plainer than most, with the chops to seem not at all comfortable in her own skin (until head-to-toe in armor, that is) will give us someone memorable, I’m sure.

Godin:
…Mr. Dempsie as Gendry is disappointing. Not that it’s a big deal… just hope he’s got the role because he did a very good job in the audition.    

I’ve seen this thought from several posters now. Enough already! What is your alternate explanation of how he got the role? Doing a three way with D&D?

I posted this over on Westeros:
I found Brienne, and where at but my local grocer. This girl is in her early twenties, 6’2″ slender, but with broad shoulders and well shaped legs, hips. She does need to muscle up a tad though. Her hair is light strawberry blond, not as red as Brienne, but that is easily remedied and she has deep blue eyes. Her chest is medium, so she won’t need much of a corsett. She has taken acting courses and some modeling, she is outgoing and friendly with a nice smile. She has a square jawed musculine face, yet with some feminine qualities so you would know she is female and she is pretty in a fair way with her makeup and is photogenic, I guess she would be to do modeling.
She has a quality about her, almost a charisma and I wasn’t the only one there, others just seemed to come over and talk to her, and when I was talking to the store manager, he really gave her high personality marks and mentioned how the customers seemd to be taken with her which is a good quality for an actor to have.
So should I get her permission and have a photo posted of her. I think D&D and others might be pleasantly surprised.

winterqueen: I am worried we will get a beautiful Ygritte. For the S2/3 wildings girls, Val, Dalla and Gilly will be cast pretty, no doubt. But Ygritte has a oddball look, it’s all about the “kissed by fire” hair.    

I think Jon Snow himself said that she really wasn’t all that attractive. But every time he talked to her and she said that line, “You know nothing, Jon Snow,” I wanted to slap her. I mean it got so annoying to me. I just wanted him to say, “Well you’re coming on to me nonstop, so I must know something,” though I know that’d be out of character for Jon Snow.

Zack,

Doesn’t the fact that she’s a kid count for anything? Not a very sympathetic kid, but still… She has a lot of growing to do, but theres a reason why kids don’t go to jail, f.eks.

Zack,

Ahh, yes I see what you mean. Though she later did admit she was wrong about what she did. But I find her chapters in AFFC and her machinations with LF very fascinating. I think she’s had a lot of personal growth since AGoT. I’ve never really gotten bored with any of the characters in the series though.

I suppose it’s because I sympathize so much with her that I like her so much. People don’t seem to cut other people any slack for mistakes. I think she behaved like she was expected to for her age… don’t think she should be hated as much as she is. If Jaime Lannister can be a redeemable character, surely Sansa can be forgiven for some of the things she did in AGoT. She paid her price by losing her wolf for it.

HouseUmber,

I don’t really think she ever saw how much of a jerk he was until he chopped off her father’s head. And even then, I don’t think she really understood it was HER telling Cersei that got her father killed. I think it’s unfair to treat her this way, considering she was only 11, immature, and a little girl. Also regarding what she did, sometimes you really don’t recognize what a monster you think you are “in love with” until he / she pushes you so far that you can’t help but recognize the truth. I think that’s what happened here. There’s an abusive relationship type of vibe to what Joffrey calls “mercy.”

Kids can be stupid dicks too.

Oops. I meant to spoiler-tag that and block-quoted instead. :( I wish we had an edit post feature.

HouseUmber,

I for one understand Sansa’s behavior, she is out of her league with the political machinations at K.L., she is in a self presevation mode, trying not to upset anyone to the point of throwing her in the dungeons but doing the best she knows how to help her father, even though it was the wrong decision.
She wasn’t trained to deal with the situation she found herself in, and that was her parents fault. I mean Ned and Cat were from two powerful noble families, they should have been preparing her on how to play the game or hired a Septa that could train her properly. Margaery understood, she was trained by the Queen of Thorns and Aleanna was trained the same way, so the blame is on her parents not poor Sansa who was so ill equipped for what was being thrown her way.

pualo: Kids can be stupid dicks too.  Quote  Reply

It does not matter. A kid is a KID! When a kid hits you, you say “why did you do that?” When an adult hits you, you hit back, or run away, or call the cops.

Also just wanted to clarify that part of why I like Sansa as a character is because I don’t always like her as a person. I find her *interesting* because she makes internal sense. I empathize with her because she makes horrible mistakes, not because she does the right thing.

Characters that always do the right thing bore me. You have to have failed first for success to mean something. Seeing how Sansa has grown, bit by bit, is fascinating. Even in ACOK, she’s clearly the calm center of the storm during much of the seige. When you compare the calm she exudes to others as they sing, versus the utter despair and contempt of Cersei, it’s clear what a great queen Sansa could make.

She’s not all the way there yet, by far, but she’s nothing like the foolish girl she was in GOT.

Another big Sansa fan here; like others have said, it isn’t that everything she does is right, it’s that it’s almost always (to me, anyway, and I assume to other Sansa fans) amazingly understandable. Is she a naive twit in “Game of Thrones”? Yep. But given her personality and what she is attracted to about her world (the clothing, the romance, the gallantry) that makes sense to me. Even better, her cluelessness allows her, when confronted with the horrors she sees, to develop into a wonderfully sympathetic– and, I think, eventually a very strong– character.

This also works nicely as a contrast to Arya. Though I do prefer Sansa, I could never deny that her sister is a very appealing character in her savviness and cheek. But I think both girls have the skill-set to allow them to survive in the very, very dangerous whirlpools they are tossed into at the end of GoT. Sansa wouldn’t have lasted a week in Arya’s position, but I think Arya’s stubbornness and refusal to bend would have seen her, if not dead then in a very bad place, had she been forced to navigate the politics of King’s Landing on her own.

Lastly, I can’t help but think that Sansa is the sister who will ultimately escape with her sanity intact. I’m not saying she’ll be perfectly healthy (she has disappeared into her new identity with worrying entirety) but I think she’ll still be ‘there’ at the end. Arya, on the other hand, seems to me to be losing it quite distinctly. Forget the violence she’s witnessed; Arya herself has is no stranger to committing violence, with increasing ease, and I think it is pretty clearly affecting her psyche. I certainly don’t blame Arya for what she has done, but I am worried for her; I can see her turning into a sort of living Un!Catelyn and that’s a terrible fate for anyone.

Inkasrain,

Wise point. Thanks for that realization.

There is clear potential for Sansa to grow into a very likable, intelligent person. I have to think Martin is shaping her to become a strong player of the game as opposed to a mere piece on the board. I’m enjoying thinking about potential paths her arc may lead toward…so it should be said that I’m glad for her presence in the novels, despite personal reactions toward her character’s failings.

Yah know, I think it is so funny that there are so many Sansa Stark haters out there in the Game of Thrones fan base. Yet when Sansa was face to face with The Hound she stood her ground. Think about that just for a second people. She is a defenseless teen girl standing before a known psycho killer and she stands her ground the night the Hound lost his mind and got drunk then ran tail. I think Sansa Stark has a lot more backbone than people are willing to give her credit for. o.O

I’ve been lurking here for a bit. Just read all of the books this year..Don’t know how they eluded me before.

Anyway ,I’m much more interested in what Arya’s future interaction (if any)will be with Jaquen H’gar..and if we’ll ever get a POV chapter or two for him. He’s certainly turning up in some interesting places.

SteveThePirate2,

That was why I was dismayed that they aged up Gendry for the initial casting call, and then further aged him with the actor picked. So that certainly throws out having an adult actor adding any subtext beyond brotherly care to Maisie. That has never been my arguement — which has been solely on Gendry/Arya in the books. (Which Steve B, DH87, and Nymeria have added more eloquently to. I shouldn’t try to do indepth character analyses at 3 in the morning. Which I’m pretty much doing now. Sigh.) I am fully aware that I am not going to see Book Arya and Book Gendry on screen. Well, certainly Book Arya — Maisie is going to be brilliant, I suspect. I’m not sure how old Maisie is, but if they had casted a 14-year-old boy, I don’t think anything that’s been written in the books would come across as innapropriate, especially as it’s all subtext — which comes across in very different degrees to people it seems. Now having Dempsie roll around on the floor of a forge with Maisie? Brotherly, if done write, or creepy if done wrong. I certainly hope they’ll go with the brotherly angle now — we have enough uncomfortable, squicky, or otherwise unpleasant things in the series. The HBO series will not be ASoIaF as it exists in the books, just as the LoTR movies are not LoTR in the books. Certain things won’t translate to screen.

As to Brienee — that is a casting I’m dreading and looking forward to. I hope I’m blown away by some unknown, who represents us flat chicks well. I absolutely love that Brienne is one of the most honestly “good” characters in the series right now. Stubborn to a fault to complete her duty. If they prance out some lovely woman, even “ugly” in the standards of Hollywood, I will be a bit disappointed. Though I do believe Brienne’s “ugliness” has a lot to do with the beauty standards of Westeros, and her “unnaturalness”, but I do remember Catelyn and possibly Jaime as describing her eyes as being striking. If I were British, I would try out for Brienne in a heartbeat. But physically, I’m too lanky, and not quite that tall, even at 5’9. I got the flat part down, but I don’t think I could swing a great sword. Lift, yes. Swinging it would probably result in toppling over. Sigh. =P

By the way, I believe her hair was described as being the color of straw.

SteveThePirate2,

Steve, Yes, I agree. I’m thinking further out than season 1, perhaps too optimistically. Of course Maisie, a brilliant choice, is and will be too young for several seasons to even attempt any long curious looks in any direction. However, the way she bosses Gendry around and he accepts it, the way he picks up on every unintended slight from her childish observations—- could have sent a subtle message… eventually. The viewers could have known what his tolerance and protectiveness presaged even if the characters didn’t. But the casting of Mr. Dempsie absolutely shuts off that possibility, which is too bad. If Maisie were to leave later on and the part were to be recast….but that is putting too many carts before too few horses.

HouseUmber,

I think that’s a little harsh. I actually feel the opposite; that while Sansa is gaining the skills to play the game of thrones, she is coming to long for the relative simplicity of the North. (Not that I think this kind of straight-talk and lack of political sliminess would have lasted that long if Robb’s Northern Kingdom would have taken off and survived, but that’s kind of moot.) Sansa’s reconstruction of Winterfell in the snow of the Eyrie is not only a beautiful scene, but I think it also shows that the Stark is alive and well in her. She may be of a different temperament than the classic Northman, but she loves her family and Winterfell, and to me that makes her every inch the Lady Stark.

(Also, if this is double or triple posted, I apologize, my Internet is being difficult.)

HouseUmber,

(Lol, no problem with spelling.) As for the symbolism, I would agree if Sansa’s actions and thoughts really reflected a divorce from her Stark-ness, but I haven’t seen that at all. On the contrary, she seems even more cognizant of her family and their absence than Arya, who doesn’t dwell very much on the past anymore. I love symbolism, but the reality doesn’t back this one up, at least for me. (And besides–this is not my idea, I read it somewhere–I’ve heard that, while Sansa may not have a wolf, she does have a Hound, so that might count for something ;-))

Well, long time lurker, but I have to post on these castings, and the Sansa discussion. I too thought Gendry would be more brawny, and I am kind of dissapointed in the casting (first dissapointment too, though I still think Ehle was the PERFECT Catelyn, so I am sad with that too) not because I thoguht he needed to be hot, or because I think blacksmiths need to be muscly, but because I think with the loss of Muscle, he looses some of his strength and stature. While he wasnt a warrior, he always seemed to me to be somewhat intimidating because of his looks, and I think it was those looks that attracted Arya, the strength, it reminded her of her father, and brothers.

As for her and Gendry’s relationship, I always thought she had a crush on him, and he was looking out for her, felt that it was his duty to look after her. I really saw it more as a brother/sister relationship, and I really think that is the angle they will take with it all now in the show.

As for the Sansa talk, I always found her to be one of my favorite characters. Sure she totally screwed over her family, and I am a huge Ned fan, but she wasn’t given all the fact, and as someone said before, was not prepared for what faced her in KL. Now that shes under the care of LF, I really think she is learning how to play the game, and we can already see her adapting to it through all the struggles she has gone through. I think she does love her family, and is fighting to avenge them, but is going to do it through political roots. She knows that she is not a fighter, but she has a great ability to learn, and is putting those skills to use already.

So while I think she was naive and ignorant in AGOT, I think she has quickly matured, and is going to turn into one of the more formidible characters within the book.

Somehow the link didn’t work in the previous post… :
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/fervidyuki/NDVD_274.jpg