Quick hits: More extras, Helfer auditions, and ratings
By Winter Is Coming on in Casting, Rumors, Speculation.

Here are a few Game of Thrones-related tidbits from the past 24 hours:

First up, a new casting call for Game of Thrones extras has gone out from Extras NI via email and the Northern Ireland Screen website. It is an urgent call, asking for “dark, swarthy skinned, muscly men that are at least 5ft 10 to 6ft 6 in height to be part of a warrior tribe – the Dothraki’s.” If you think you have the right look, be sure to click the link above to find out how to apply. This casting call also means that they still have some Dothraki scenes that will be filmed in Northern Ireland. Unless they plan to ship these extras to Malta, which I highly doubt.

Secondly, a report popped up last night about Tricia Helfer, of Battlestar Galactica fame, apparently auditioning for Game of Thrones at some point. Helfer, you may remember, was a big fan favorite for the role of Cersei. The report indicates that the audition was “recent” and that the role she auditioned for eventually went to Elizabeth Banks. Both of which would be untrue, in my opinion, as the only role Helfer could have been auditioning for is Cersei. As we know, the role of Cersei was cast with Lena Headey over a year ago now.

My guess as to what happened? Helfer did in fact audition for Cersei and when she learned she didn’t get the role she, or one of her people, did some Googling to find out who did and stumbled upon Banks being talked about as Cersei. This was because of a misinterpreted casting clue from GRRM. Helfer must have assumed Banks won the role and never bothered finding out more info. The inclusion of “recently” seems to have been a mistake on the reporter’s part.

UPDATE: Tricia Helfer has confirmed via her Twitter that she auditioned for the role of Cersei and adds that because of the audition she has begun reading the books and has been enjoying them.

Lastly, reports of the ratings for Boardwalk Empire have just been released and they are impressive. 4.8 million viewers for the initial airing, 7.1 million if you add in the multiplays [and it got picked up for a second season straight after]. This is great news for fans of Game Of Thrones because HBO reportedly spent $10 million on marketing Empire, and it looks like it worked. Hopefully they will now give Thrones the same treatment.

UPDATE: Ran from Westeros was able to uncover a similar casting call in Malta that sounds very much like it is for Game of Thrones. Interesting that they specifically ask for blond and fair-skinned extras, more proof to the speculation that they may be filming more than just Dany’s scenes in Malta?

[Thanks to ninepennyking for the Helfer report and TVMoJoe for the ratings info.]


187 Comments

  1. bobobobo
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    first..

  2. youandwhosearmy
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    So, so glad she didn’t get the role of Cersei. She nearly ruined BSG for me.

  3. HerrFick
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    Regarding Boardwalk Empire: The high ratings are well deserved. The pilot was outstanding in every aspect. Acting, writing (of characters as well as dialogue), sets, costumes, music and special effects (the matte paintings and so forth) – everything was great.
    Steve Buscemi is a giant of film with his many talents. And upcoming episodes will feature Michael K Williams, who was seen during one short scene in the pilot (the staff talk about that scene’s importance in HBO’s 14-minute Behind-the-Scenes feature: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKU2A70svYk ).

  4. Gaz
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Loved her in BSG.

    Hope she re auditions for the red witch if we get a season 2. her influence over baltar echoes mellisandres (sp?) over stannis.

    ok guys, im hitting the sun beds and gym and then extras n.i.

  5. Firelix Zschieschow
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    It also references to GoT as a film adaption. Damn reporters.

  6. Franny Bee
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Helfer for Brienne!

    No wait, that’s not gonna work…

  7. eilwen
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Damn. Tricia Helfer woud have been perfect as Cersei.

  8. Tysnow
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Watched Boardwalk last night and to me it was brilliant, all I have to say is Scorsese is fucking back baby, with a Remington shotgun in one hand and a bottle of Canadian Whisky in the other.

  9. Tysnow
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Well, perhaps she was secretly auditioning for Melisandre and the role went to Banks, that would be interesting for sure.

  10. Franny Bee
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    Tysnow,

    Hey, it’s all about the Canadian Club! I loved BE too, though I don’t know why big Jim guy got shot in the end. Enlighten me, someone, either here or FB message. Thanks!

  11. Ann
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    I watched Boardwalk Empire and I really liked it. And guess what? HBO already renewed it for a second season! If they handle GOT the same way we might get an early renewal as well if the ratings are on somewhat of the same level.

  12. DH87
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    That 4.8 million is huge. TB finished up at 5.5 million last week, it’s three-season high. I don’t think BE is going to hold me, but I hope it holds everyone else. We’ll see in the next couple of weeks if the Week 1 ratings were a TB holdover or if BE can stand on its own two legs. None of these shows is in competition with each other (except at awards time) so of course we want them all, AGOT particularly, to do well.
    As I mentioned, HBO has bought another offbeat/southern/death-related/book adaptation from AB based on TB’s monster success, so if AGOT hits it will bode well not only for D&D’s next project but for the whole fantasy genre.

  13. Gecc1
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    I think about 3 million nerds (including me) just went “WTF!?”

    If Helfer did indeed audition for the Cersei role, I cannot see or imagine a reason she would not get it.

    To me that is almost like reading that Peter Dinklage auditioned for Tyrion but someone else got the role.

    That woman was born to play Cersei (no disrespect to Headey which I’m sure will be a great Cersei — But frankly, she would’ve also made a great Catelyn).

    I know a lot of people hate Tricia, but that would’ve been perfect, since her character is supposed to be despised (at least during season 1).

    I cannot see her being rejected for being a bad actress. She’s been capable enough in the roles that I’ve seen her perform, and her naturally haughty attitude/appearance would’ve been just… perfect.

    My guess would be that she was not able to audition for the Cersei role at the time the pilot was originally cast/shot (prior commitments perhaps), and later, after hearing/learning how much internet support there is for this project decided to audition for another role on the series.

    Which one? Your guess is as good as mine, but Melisandre seems to be the only other role that comes to mind, and in my nerdy heart, that role belongs to Christina Hendricks .

    Note to Christina: If you are reading this, go audition for the role of Melisandre right now.

  14. Mickey D
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Gecc1,

    Oh man – I just followed that link to see who you were talking about, and I’ve got to say you have it nailed – she’s melisandre if anyone ever could be…

  15. Rahbur
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    I loved BE. I wasnt terribly impressed with the title sequence, but the rest of the show made up for it. :) I got a little distracted trying to keep up with Chicago characters introduced all at once. I was just glad they were mostly(all?) real people, so I could look them up and get a good idea of who was who later. But it made me wonder if new viewers to GOT will have an equally hard (harder?) time keeping up with the slew of characters in GOT? I suppose that’s something that can be worked out the longer you watch the show, though. Here’s to hoping BE has a good run, and GOT after it.

    As for rumors surrounding Elizabeth Banks … I love her as an actress, but for Cersei, or even Melisandre? I dunno … I just can’t get her Scrub’s character out of my mind :)

    Zoom Zoom Zoom

  16. DigDoug
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    Helfer is currently in a cable series ‘Dark Blue’ so wouldn’t be able to make a long filming commitment at this time. Those cable series tend to air in summer/christmas network television breaks – so they are probably filming the winter episodes in the next 2 months. It would seem she has a conflict.
    Besides, wouldn’t you rather see some unkown actress filling the role of Melisandre, so it wouldn’t be so obvious that the role would grow?

  17. agor
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Gillian Anderson for Melisandre. It is known.

  18. Damphair
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Pretty sure a lot of fans are pulling for http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0164918/ as Melisandre. Christina, while quite a revelation on Mad Men, may be too much for the role. Too much of a woman (she’s hypnotic), too expensive, too committed to her other role (which is a big time and press commitment). She’s gorgeous, but not exotic enough, imo.

  19. Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    ok. i really love lena. TSCC was a great show that was gone too soon. having said that the idea of watching an often naked Helfer as Cersei would nearly be too much for my poor heart to bear. she was consistently excellent in BSG and had to cover a giant range as Six and all the various incarnations. she was also decent in Burn Notice and has added some proper sexiness to Dark Blue.

    as for Melisandre. Eva Green is Melisandre, it is known.

    and if we are going to be advocating for fans of the books to be in the show i think we should stick to supporting a real actor like Felicia Day for Ygritte.

  20. Winter Is Coming
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Gecc1: Melisandre seems to be the only other role that comes to mind, and in my nerdy heart, that role belongs to Christina Hendricks .

    Mine too.

  21. izakmo
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    I hope the production isn’t having trouble scraping together enough “swarthy” extras to form the Dothraki khalasar. Trying to make a few dozen people look like hundreds or thousands can be problematic. There could also be an issue if the Dothraki extras they use in NI are a mix of Mediteranean, Middle Eastern, African American, and Latino, but the Dothraki used in Malta are exclusively Maltese.

    I’m curous how they’re breaking up shooting the Dany scenes between NI and Malta. Can anyone remember where all she goes in GoT? I thought she was pretty much out on the plains the whole books, at least once she leaves Illyrio’s palace.

  22. Winter Is Coming
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    izakmo, Dany’s scenes would take place in the Dothraki Sea, Vaes Dothrak, and a Lhazareen village, if they follow the book exactly.

  23. Mormegil
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    While the original T Helfer article is probably just a case of bad journalism (claiming GoT is a film rather than a TV series for example) it does seem odd to link Tricia to it if her audition was over a year ago.

    I do wonder if there was some more recent auditions for Season 2 parts* or (hopefully not) there is more recasting going on.

    *Given that Lommy Greenhands has been brought forward for at least one scene in Season 1 maybe the same is true of Melisandre

  24. Lex
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    I wouldn’t even mention that Helfer article, as the reporter calls Game of Thrones an upcoming film, and clearly has no idea what he/she is talking about.

  25. durandal
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    A bit off topic. I was watching Robin Hood last night and I think I saw Ygritte.

  26. Winter Is Coming
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    Lex, yes, the reporter obviously has no idea what Game of Thrones is. But if Helfer told him she auditioned for it, I am inclined to believe her. I don’t know why she would make something like that up and I would think it even less likely the reporter would make it up.

    So, the shoddy reporting is irrelevant in this case, as the news worthy item from the story is the fact that Tricia Helfer auditioned for Thrones.

  27. The Rabbit
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    Unless the reporter invented the whole story.
    I would not be surprise at all.

  28. Tysnow
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps Mary can do a quick photoshop of Banks as Mel, as for Lea Seydoux, she has my support for any role that was offered, the bigger the better.

  29. Winter Is Coming
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    The Rabbit, I suppose it’s possible. But if that was the case, wouldn’t he have to have known what Game of Thrones is? To make up a story like that would have required some knowledge of the show.

    I think it is much more likely that the following conversation happened…

    Reporter: So Tricia, how are you doing? Any big upcoming projects your geek fanbase may be excited about?
    TH: Hmm.. well I did audition for a medieval fantasy called Game of Thrones, that my fans would have just loved, but unfortunately I didn’t get the part.
    Reporter: Haven’t heard of it, but it seems like the perfect project for you. How could they pass you up? Do you know who got the part instead?
    TH: I think it was Elizabeth Banks.
    Reporter: A travesty. She isn’t half the actress you are.
    *Tricia looks around for someone else to talk to*

    Later that night, reporter writes:
    “When we spoke with Helfer, we learned she had recently auditioned for a part in the upcoming film A Game of Thrones, a fantasy flick sure to get fan boys from her Battlestar Galactica days excited, but lost the role to Elizabeth Banks.”

  30. spacechampion
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Zoe Bell is the only one who could be Brienne. They’ll have to change the role from being ugly to merely being discriminated against because she is a woman.

  31. DH87
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Ann,
    Don’t mean to rain on the BE parade, but a second-season renewal was apparently a done deal given the HBO huge upfront investment in sets, etc. (see today’s Nikki Finke/Deadline Hollywood) “to amortize upfront costs.” How does that translate for GOT?

  32. Tysnow
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    I can see HBO scrambling, OMG!, they have found out TH auditioned for a role and we did not give it to her.
    So opinions anyone, should they keep silent or mitigate the damage, cause I cannot believe they would turn her down considering the fanbase that comes with her.

  33. Winter Is Coming
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    DH87, Game of Thrones is a pretty large upfront investment as well. So, by the same logic, it should also get a quick renewal.

    Tysnow, HBO doesn’t cast people based on the size of their fan base. They cast them for their acting abilities and if they are a good fit for the role. Obviously, Nina, David, and Dan felt Headey was better than Helfer in this respect.

  34. dizzy_34
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    durandal: A bit off topic. I was watching Robin Hood last night and I think I saw Ygritte.

    Wow dude, that’s a good one. Best suggestion for her that I’ve seen.

  35. DH87
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    That is good news! My understanding is that, the earlier in the season the renewal switch is flipped, the better all around—better writing, because writing assignments can be made sooner; better film editing, because the episodes are shot sooner; better casting, since more and better actors sometimes are available with longer lead times. I know a TB episode was taking three weeks to complete, which is considered a long time for a 48-54 minute episode; do we have a sense of how the GOT episodes compare to that? And, FYI, expect some “filler” in every episode of GOT to accommodate HBO’s ever quickening marketing of the show to basic cable, which will require deletion of graphic sex, language, and violence. HBO is selling TB to basic cable right now, to begin airing as early as nex year, while the new eps. are still airing on HBO. Basic cable requires pruning that does not have an impact on the story line, so you’ll see slightly too long battle scenes or other such material that can easily be pruned for basic cable.

  36. Tysnow
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Well, I consider Helfer to be an outstanding quality actress, if she in fact auditioned for Cersei, HBO should option her for Mel.

  37. Winter Is Coming
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    DH87, well they are reportedly filming for around 30 weeks and the season will be 10 episodes. So I guess they will spend on average 3 weeks per episode. They are not filming everything in order, so it would be impossible to guess exactly how long each episode takes to be completely filmed.

  38. DH87
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    Sorry—I realized that seemed a gap in logic. Basic cable needs pruning of the original episode not just for S/N/L/V but to accommodate ads. That’s what I meant about battle scenes being cut, not for S/N/L/V necessarily but to carve 8 minutes or so out of the epi. for ads. The S/N/L/V goes first, but after that, something’s got to go to make room for more ads for ShamWow.

  39. Tysnow
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    Tysnow,

    durandal,

    Lea Seydoux gets my vote for any GoT role that HBO would secure her for.

  40. Tysnow
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    The fact that Helfer auditioned and did not get a role is far bigger news to me than lets say the look of Lannister armor.

  41. Samantha Hirst
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    durandal: A bit off topic. I was watching Robin Hood last night and I think I saw Ygritte.    

    She would make an awesome Ygritte looks wise. Never seen her work, so wouldn’t know acting wise, but looks wise, that is so how I imagined Ygritte. Wowser.

  42. Samantha Hirst
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    spacechampion: Zoe Bell is the only one who could be Brienne.They’ll have to change the role from being ugly to merely being discriminated against because she is a woman.    

    And sorry for the double post *hangs head in shame*, but I’m just not sure. Yeah, I won’t deny she’s got the stunt experience that would make training her as Brienne very easy (as in, little training required), but I don’t think that she looks -young- enough to play Brienne. I know we’re ageing characters up, but I just still can’t see it. Brienne to me is early twenties and Zoe Bell just doesn’t look early twenties.

  43. Winter Is Coming
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Tysnow: Winter Is Coming,
    The fact that Helfer auditioned and did not get a role is far bigger news to me than lets say the look of Lannister armor.    

    I suspect the list of “name” actors who auditioned for this show but didn’t get a part would be pretty long. Don’t forget also that Jamie Bamber auditioned for Jaime.

    This is a premiere HBO drama we are talking about. Any TV actor would have been interested in this project. And probably some film actors as well.

  44. Peeter Talvistu
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Aaaand Boardwalk gets the second season: http://www.tvsquad.com/2010/09/21/boardwalk-empire/

  45. dizzy_34
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Tysnow: Winter Is Coming, The fact that Helfer auditioned and did not get a role is far bigger news to me than lets say the look of Lannister armor.  

    It’s o.k. man, you can let it go. At least Jaime’s armor will appear in the show.

  46. The Rabbit
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Peeter Talvistu,

    So, if we got the thumbs up from the critics and achieve the big numbers on the premiere night – we ll have second season right away?

  47. FlayedandDisplayed
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    No disrespect to Ms Helfer, but everything I’ve seen her in she sounds like… well Ms Helfer. Has anyone heard her do a Brit accent in a show? It seems to me that with the notable exception of Mr Dinklage, North Americans aren’t getting much of a look in. I’m sure there are plenty of actresses in the UK or Europe who are either redheads or happy to wear a wig/dye their hair to look the part for Melissandre. fyi, Christina Hendricks isn’t a natural redhead either but damn she pulls it off well.

  48. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    On a side note.

    AGoT is a new, upcoming show and talking of new shows there has been four yesterday of which I just recently watched three.
    The Event, Mike and Molly, Lone Star and Hawaii Five-0.
    Havent watched the last one.

    First The Event. I had my hopes up.
    It kind of made me thinking of The Happening, a movie which I liked.
    ‘Well the show lasted half its pilot before I turned it off.
    The flashbacks……the “20 minutes earlier” or “13 months earlier” ….that kind of storytelling just feels so Lost…..and I got lost…..and bored.
    I love chonologic storytelling. If not chronologic, make it good….like Memento.
    I wont be watching The Event any more.

    Then Mike and Molly….
    I got ten seconds into this one. I saw the set, I heard the pre recorded laughter and I turned it off.
    Nuff zed.

    Lone Star…
    Looks interesting. I would call this a drama. Its got emotion, good acting and an interesting story. I will watch the next coming episodes hoping for charismatic characters. Havent seen those so far. Jon Voight is in it and he is usually good but these days he gets the job he is offered Im afraid.

    So now I will give the last one a shot. Hawaii Five-0.
    Beforhand I know it will suck….

  49. Tysnow
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    dizzy_34,

    Yea, but will he be wearing his golden armor too or just the Kingsguard Valayrian armor we have seen him attired in from the making of clip.

  50. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    And on Helfer. Well I loved her in BSG, but lets not forget that she is a model and Lena Headey is a much greater actress.
    None of them are Bergman material for sure but we take what we are given.
    Besides Headey brings with her millions of Terminator-nerds.

  51. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Come to think of it they are both Bergman material. He usually had beautiful but not that talented actresses in his flicks just to get into their panties

  52. dizzy_34
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Tysnow: dizzy_34, Yea, but will he be wearing his golden armor too or just the Kingsguard Valayrian armor we have seen him attired in from the making of clip.  Quote  Reply

    I’ll bet he’s got multiple sets of armor. I for one hope he has a lions head helm for the tourney. We know the Hound’s got a hound head one so maybe one of our spies could help us out.

  53. Lord Ned's Head
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    I was the band leader of the Helfer for Cersei camp, but Heady never occured to me and though at the time I may have still been for Helfer I can say now that I think Heady was the right call for the role.

    I also wanted to echo the BE sentiment that the show was wonderful. It lived up to and surpassed its hyp for me. That first episode had a movie-like feel and production quality to it. Its the closet thing to a feature that I have ever seen made for TV. I hope they can keep that quality level up while also ramping up the interactions between the characters. Nucky seem like such an incredible role. Steve’s star is definately going to be on the rise if the rest of the season matches the first episode!

  54. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Tysnow: dizzy_34, Yea, but will he be wearing his golden armor too or just the Kingsguard Valayrian armor we have seen him attired in from the making of clip.  Quote  Reply

    Now this is a comment that brings back memories. It feels a bit like back when I was like 13-14 and was masturbating and it kinda became boring all of a sudden and the thought came uninvited that “there must be more to life than this!?”
    Then I had a girlfriend and life was less boring but much more confusing.
    I find the notion of discussing different suits of armour extremely boring and I am really into this show. I am one of those guys who have made at least ten persons start reading GRRM directly and a lot more indirectly.
    All my “yadda yadda the wall yadda yadda dragons yadda yadda Ned” have driven my girlfriend almost insane and she already hate the show just for my bladdering about it.
    But sweet god cant we talk about anything more interesting than “Ooooh I wonder if he will wear this or that armour?!”
    All of a sudden I feel like such a nerd…..like an adult who wakes up in kids clothing.
    Now I have at least started an interesting topic.
    Roll with it

  55. Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    c0venant: And on Helfer. Well I loved her in BSG, but lets not forget that she is a model and Lena Headey is a much greater actress.
    None of them are Bergman material for sure but we take what we are given.
    Besides Headey brings with her millions of Terminator-nerds.    

    by this logic they should have cast Summer Glau as Dany and gotten the TSCC and Firefly nerds.

    i think Summer has what i imagine to be the perfect “look” of Dany (alien and royal and vulnerable) but obviously too old. a 10 year younger Summer Glau would have been perfect. about what she looked like as River Tam in Firefly the series.

  56. DH87
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    c0venant,

    You have started an interesting topic but I can’t choose which one it is: masturbation, armor, girlfriends and the physical awakening to the possibilities of same…..
    I’ll take armor for $200, Alex. I don’t see why it is any nerdier than our GRRM figurine discussion of last night. I gather folks want to be mesmerized by the drill-down on the detail presented, like the complaint I read today about the wrong RPM-disc being used instead of the correct 78 in a scene from Boardwalk Empire.
    But if I guessed wrong and you meant masturbation, I’ll probably pass.

  57. Tysnow
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    Wow!, someone actually complained about the wrong rpm record in the phonograph in the BE scene, that’s just as bad as the Kingsguard armor complaints.

  58. gofalcons
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    Franny Bee: Helfer for Brienne!No wait, that’s not gonna work…    

    If she weren’t in her mid 30s I’d say a few cheeseburgers and a few months in the gym and Helfer would be perfect. I never understood the attraction.

  59. coltaine777
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    Tricia Helfer would’ve been great …I loved her in BSG…though i am happy with Headey…as for Joe Campo ?…I don’t want him anywhere near Mance or Davos…gimme a break…I liked his audition but to entrust those roles to a complete unknown would be madness…there are too many proven , veteran actors out there looking for work than to settle on Joe…give him a minor role though…a glorified extra or something..imo

  60. Geoff
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Well that is an Epic Fail to think that Mrs Helfer was THAT close to being involved is maddening. I was a follower of BSG, and thought she was one of the better actors on the show. Her B movies have not been as great. But IMO she was perfect for Cersai. I think one poster may have nailed it, i am not sure if she could pull off an English accent which appears to be where this show is going. It would have been cool to see the Lannisters with an American accent, the Starks Canadian, Dani English. Oh well hope Lena does not disappoint i am sure she wont.

  61. Tysnow
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    c0venant,

    I was being facetious over the armor costuming, my opinion is that scripting, directing, acting is more important than the notion of armor matching my mental idea of what was used in the book, or the carpentry of the tourney was done all wrong, they used rough cut timbers enlieu of cut and finished lumber.
    Although Robert’s attire still takes getting use too.

  62. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    Sure nothing wrong with being impressed by good work or detail. I was personally blown away by Boardwalk Empire.
    I know this comes from someone who is an extremely nerd when it comes to TB and CH though so I really cant be touched by that ironic nuance.
    I am very nerdy…..and sometimes when I see someone even nerdier than I my cock-and-balls alarm go off and Im kinda awakened and a bit drowsy thinking “where am I?”
    Im pulled back to my own life where gold and white armour means shit.
    Im really not attacking someone here Im just bringing up the topic.
    We have some serious nerds out there; Star Trek, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Terminator…..do we really want to be those guys?
    You know the fat guy with the ponytail in Simpsons? Comicbook-guy.
    I want to rise above that. I want to discuss acting and scripts, dialogue and psychology, litterature and history.
    I want us to discuss this dressed in blazers with leather patches on our elbows.
    I dont want to be that guy….the one in the Harry Potter-outfit in line for a month…..in a tent…..in the rain.

  63. dizzy_34
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    c0venant,

    Yeah but I don’t want to grow up (part of the reason we’re all here I assume). I’m a responsible adult with a kid and I still like talking about armor and swords with him (and you all) so there. :P

  64. DH87
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    Tysnow,

    Yep, and apparently there was a continuity failure in the scene with the shotgun; the weapon before the cutaway was different from the one after it. I’m sure Marty enjoys hearing that for his five million trillion billion set budget. The DVR and the pause button are not the friends of production managers.

  65. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    Not to forget the black baloons being dropped from the ceiling TWICE and then to disappear!? I noticed that one….but by god, it was all so beautiful so who cares?

  66. DH87
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    c0venant,

    Well, I guess I should be flattered: I’ve been called a slightly perverse bosom-hugging romantic and an extreme CH/TB nerd in less than 24 hours here on w-i-c. Thanks, guys!
    I cannot solve your nerdophobia. You’ve indicated you already have a girlfriend so unless she is a blow-up doll, you are probably fine. Some of us chicks are kind of turned on by armor, anyway.
    The Harry Potter line guy….well, CH has said at her book signings, many 20-something male service members in uniform are right there next to us bosom-huggers, waiting to get their Sookie Stackhouse books signed along with everyone else. If they aren’t worried, you probably shouldn’t be either.

  67. pualo
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    gofalcons,

    Agreed. I think Helfer would make a better Jaime than a Cersei.

  68. Steve B
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    Dh87, you just come off as pretty defensive a lot of the time.

  69. DH87
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    c0venant,
    In one TB scene, a character sitting at a bar was cut to and away from five times and in each cut the level of the beer in his glass went up, then down, then up, then up higher, then down… we wondered if he or the set design assistant was taking a belt between takes.

  70. DH87
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    I apologize, Steve.
    If I’m not fitting in, I’m happy to move on elsewhere!
    Take care, all!

  71. GaR
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    Geoff,

    North American accents in a fantasy? I can’t think of anything more horrible. I’d rather have Parris Hilton play Sansa, Ashton Kutcher as Jon Snow, and Eugene levy as Ned.

  72. mummer
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    Good grief. Did you just announce that you’re taking your ball and going home? Because one person used the word “nerdy” and one other person called you “pretty defensive”? That would be more or less proving the latter.

    Why not stick around and just take it down a notch. Seriously, there’s nothing wrong with nitpicking about armor or complaining about Alan Ball, we all indulge in such pursuits here, but you have been unusually vehement about it from time to time. And even so, I don’t think a lot of people have given you a hard time about it– this really is one of the mellower corners of the web.

  73. GaR
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    mummer,

    Agreed. Internets are serious business, DH87, just chill. No need to prove him right by storming off in a huff :P

  74. Wastrel
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know why anyone thinks Helfer is a good actress. All she ever did on BSG was look pretty (apparently – very much not my type), occasionally look confused, and speak slowly and quietly in a monotone. [And once or twice she shouted]. Which was fine for her role, but it doesn’t make her a great actress.

    [People seem always to think "she's hot" or "I like her character" entails "she's a great actress" (and the same goes for men, too - just more so for women, since their characters are often written more lazily, so that looking hot is a more important part of it). I think the opposite: most actors and actresses we see on TV and in most films are mediocre, neither good nor bad. NOT being shit is the height of brilliance most can aspire to. Which goes along with the roles, since very few require positively good acting - most just require people to not fuck up. Particularly female roles.]

    As I said in another thread: it’s always great news when a fan favourite gets rejected by casting people. It shows they’re serious about talent, and suitability for the role, rather than name-recognition. If they listened to the fans, every role would be the same (but with a different wig).

  75. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    Hey, stay! My remarks was in many ways just ironic and I just wanted to start a discussion. Winter-is-coming.net is a place where we dont have fight. We are all adults even though some of us (me) sometimes fool around. I like the way you protect TB so please stay. Anything else would make me the a-hole. And I am sorry if I offended you.
    Im just bored by us nerds. Children starve to death and we discuss armour. Sometimes it offends me.

  76. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    Wastrel,

    I Think Arnold played the terminator pretty good in both Terminator and T2. Now Tricia dd an amazing work on BSG…..now what did she play again?

  77. GaR
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    c0venant,

    I don’t think anyone’s ever accused Arnie of being a great actor…

  78. Blecki
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    The blonds needed in malta are probably the sheep-men.

  79. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    Now if DH87 really did leave this site could someone who know where she usually do hang out please tell her Im sorry and ask her to come back? I liked the way she brought spice to the discussion. An active forum is a good forum and she was active.
    And besides I hate it when people dont get along.
    And that is NOT ironic.

  80. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    GaR,

    He does a brilliant android though!

  81. Ryan E
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    c0venant: On a side note.AGoT is a new, upcoming show and talking of new shows there has been four yesterday of which I just recently watched three.
    The Event,Mike and Molly, Lone Star and Hawaii Five-0.
    Havent watched the last one.First The Event. I had my hopes up.
    It kind of made me thinking of The Happening, a movie which I liked.
    ‘Well the show lasted half its pilot before I turned it off.
    The flashbacks……the “20 minutes earlier” or “13 months earlier” ….that kind of storytelling just feels so Lost…..and I got lost…..and bored.
    I love chonologic storytelling. If not chronologic, make it good….like Memento.
    I wont be watching The Event any more.Then Mike and Molly….
    I got ten seconds into this one. I saw the set, I heard the pre recorded laughter and I turned it off.
    Nuff zed.Lone Star…
    Looks interesting. I would call this a drama. Its got emotion, good acting and an interesting story. I will watch the next coming episodes hoping for charismatic characters. Havent seen those so far. Jon Voight is in it and he is usually good but these days he gets the job he is offered Im afraid.So now I will give the last one a shot. Hawaii Five-0.
    Beforhand I know it will suck….    

    I am really advising everyone to not take any advice on shows from someone who liked The Happening, AKA the worst movie ever made. Just joking with ya, but every person I know who has seen it thought it was the worst thing they’d ever saw…. can’t find any redeemable qualities in that film.

    But then again, you do like A Song of Ice and Fire…

  82. DH87
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    c0venant,
    Look…no huffing, no sulking, no drama.
    There are places where folks get the difference between “The trouble with what you’re saying is…” and “The trouble with you is….” and there are places where that’s not a big distinction.
    I’m better suited to the former.
    Easy in, easy out. If I knew how to insert the little smiley icon, I’d insert it.
    Covenant, you are totally off the hook. Now, please, everybody, carry on.

  83. GaR
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    c0venant: GaR, He does a brilliant android though!  Quote  Reply

    Can’t argue with that. It was the ideal role for him. But when he’s cast as a human, things can get a little silly.

  84. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    I think this is the former. I have never ran into any big arguments here. This is not imdb or blastr. There are no retards here just wanting to attack someone. If there were I wouldnt log onto this site the first thing I do every day.
    I go here before I go to aftonbladet.se, tti.nu, torrentday.com, ifkgoteborg.se, vcdq.com, blastr.com and everywhere else. Because here are nice people. Apart from the lovable admins there are Lex and Nymeria.
    Brilliant people.
    So please stay. And if you ever feel offended by anything said here just say so and I will personally put the culprits in their place even if I am one of them.
    No one shall ever be driven from this news-site…..ever

  85. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    GaR,

    Perhaps as silly as Helfer playing a human?

  86. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    GRRM-fans are problem solvers and shock councillors. We have to be from reading the books….

  87. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Ryan E,

    Im with you there. The good things about “Tha Happening” are limited to be sure.
    Wahlberg is one good thing. I like him. Dont ask me why. Seems like others than I like him. Scorcese should have a good eye and he likes him.
    Im my book; if you go from being Marky Mark to playing in a Scocese-movie…..Im a fan!
    Wahlberg is not a great actor. He plays himself. I do think though that just as Ben Affleck he will be a future power behind the camera.

    What I like with the movie is the mystery in the beginning. I always enjoy the what-the-hell-is-happening factor. I like the thought of that there is a will to live and that this “will” is vulnerable.

  88. Jehphg
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    dizzy_34:
    Wow dude, that’s a good one.Best suggestion for her that I’ve seen.    

    Just have to agree, she looks amazingly how i imagone Ygritte to be

  89. GaR
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    c0venant,

    Touche.

  90. Lex
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    c0venant: DH87,
    Because here are nice people. Apart from the lovable admins there are Lex and Nymeria.
    Brilliant people.

    Aww, thanks. :)

    (That’s almost enough to make me forgive your comment about LOTR-nerds, proud as I am of my Tolkien obsession!).

  91. rtm1981
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

    Just out of curiosity and offtopic. Did anyone ever bring up Hayley McFarland for Dany? I mean how fricken disturbing would the wedding scenes be with this girl? o.O She looks crazy young. Those scenes will hardly give people pause now though, which in my view is a pity. It’s meant to be hard to watch (/read) after all.

    I could see someone saying that the regal queen part of the story (which is a much bigger part) would be a problem though; but I’m not a 100% sure, she might be able to pull it off. I wouldn’t know really, I’ve only ever seen her in Lie to me.

    Oh and that picture might be a couple of years old, I’m not sure; but she still looks young in the current season of LTM.

  92. Demokritos
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    Ryan E,

    What, they haven’t seen The Room?

  93. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Almost or just enough for a sweet lovable kiss in true TB-spirit? ;-)

  94. gofalcons
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    Blecki: The blonds needed in malta are probably the sheep-men.    

    Or the Qartheen that Dany sees at the market when she goes with Jorah and receives the gift of wine from the merchant. I just read that chapter today and noticed that the Qartheen are described as tall and blonde. The few tall blonde extras they find in Malta should be enough to cover that.

  95. Cutter Allen Kilgore
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    I’ve got to say that I’m glad she didn’t get the role. I wasn’t terribly impressed with Helfer on BSG, even though I think the show itself was great. Actually, I found hers to be one of the weaker performances on the entire show. I know a lot of people will disagree with me on that, but for some reason, her portrayal always sort of irritated me. I never really felt her emotions were genuine and believable, (this could very well be due to her direction, because she was playing a non-human character.)

    And I will have to say, for what it’s worth, that I think Lena Heady to be a better actress and more suited to the role.

  96. Lex
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    c0venant: Lex,
    Almost or just enough for a sweet lovable kiss in true TB-spirit?     

    Not quite that much, but maybe enough for a man hug.

  97. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Yey, man hug!! On that note I say good night. With a sweaty man hug. And as we hug I pour beer over us. Im wearing a white tank top. My pierced nipples will so shine through. The beer was stale anyways. Had to watch some porn before signing off.
    Cant really see why some people find me offensive.
    Well Lex what do you think of my notion about a massive facebook countdoun when the day comes and we close up to premiere?

  98. c0venant
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    *and we are closing in on…..

  99. paulgude
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    I’ve got to agree with the weirdness about Tricia Helfer bringing up the audition as being “recent,” if it was for Cersei. She’s in a new series but instead brings up a role she didn’t get?

    It almost made me think that it was mis-dated from last year, but “A Beginner’s Guide to Endings” is a 2010 film.

    The only thing I can think of is that, kind of like in WiC’s scenario, where she was asked if she had anything like BSG on her plate and she responded with something like, “Well, I had an audition for a fantasy series…” and the idea about it being “recent” was added by the interviewer.

    Or there’s some Season 2 role that they just happened to audition two actresses that were top WiC guesses for GRRMs Cersei clues because the world is wondrous and strange.

  100. Steve Westenra
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    Tysnow,

    I had a similar thought.
    I hope she gets another role, in any case.

  101. Tysnow
    Posted September 21, 2010 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    I watched Lena Heady’s performance in Aberdeen this past week and I can see why some say it is among her best work. I enjoyed the unusual fresh storyline and how she and Skarsgard complimented each others role. The twist at the end was was a nice touch especially how they deal with it. It was hard for me though at the beginning to get use to her youthful Scottish accent.
    I give it a full evening ticket price with medium drink (or beer*) and popcorn.

    *Only for those who have attained the privilege.

  102. Lex
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 12:14 am | Permalink

    Just stumbled on this random interesting video, with some analyst discussing HBO’s finances and the investment/risk/potential success of Boardwalk Empire. He talks about HBO’s profits and finances, and things like ratings, subscribers, and DVD sales. He actually says it’s not a gamble, and calls the expensive new show “a very modest investment”, even if it goes to 150 million dollars. I guess that sounds like good news for Game of Thrones, in terms of high cost.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRcb3GLmLI4

  103. Jarred Melancon
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 3:28 am | Permalink

    Errr… I’m somewhat shocked Helfer didn’t get the role but I would need to see the audition tapes before I could say anything conclusively. She definitely looks better as a blonde than Heady but looks aren’t everything. There might have been some dealbreaker that I’m not aware of.

  104. FlayedandDisplayed
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 5:01 am | Permalink

    The same fan base that wants Helfer for the role is going to be sold on her as a loving mother when they’ve likely only seen her snap a baby’s neck? Queen bitch she can do, kinda all she does… but loving mum? plus the accent, work permits etc. If working there is anything like other industries, you gotta go local unless there’s a very good reason not to – eg Dinklage has a unique set of ummm characteristics, recognition and acting skill that qualify him. There’d probably be a strike or something if they didn’t attempt to find a suitable actress in the UK.

  105. Knurk
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    That’s quite a profit HBO made last year. And they sold Boardwalk Empire to 160 countries?!?! He did underestimate the viewers though.

    It makes me wonder if this show could actually make GoT look bad. If this show is such a big hit they’ll probably see a decline in subscribers, viewers and foreign sellers after BE stops airing. Let’s hope it won’t happen and if so, they don’t blame GoT.

  106. Wastrel
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Jarred Melancon,

    Yeah, I wonder what could possibly be a massive-enough dealbreaker to overcome “looking good”?

    Some suggestions:
    - Helfer’s lack of acting ability
    - Helfer’s lack of suitability for the role
    - Helfer’s lack of the requisite union membership
    - Helfer’s lack of the appropriate accent

    I don’t know how much each of those four applies, but I’d have though that maybe, just maybe, any one of those four could by itself (and certainly when combined) be so titanically massive that even the otherwise indefeasible obligation to cast women you think “look good” may have been outweighed…

  107. userj
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Wastrel,

    Hear, hear!

    Also whoever said Summer Glau should have been cast to play Dany: *HEAD EXPLODE*. I’m sure she’s a very sweet young woman but no… she is not a quality actor. And please for the love of god stop suggesting your goddess Felicia Day for random roles. The woman cannot act anything except “shy nerdy girl”.

    That said, I think that Tricia Helfer could be OK as Melisandre. This is because Mel doesn’t really require anything more than a passable actor (she just has to act like a menacing cultist, which is pretty similar to Helfer’s BSG role), and too boot, she’d have like 4 scenes (if that many) in the whole 2nd season, so it would be hard for her to ruin anything with a hammy performance. Appearance would be OK since indeed she is very odd looking, as Melisandre is supposed to be…

  108. silverjaime
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    Wastrel,

    ROTFLMAO!

  109. Jarmel
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    Wastrel: Jarred Melancon,
    Yeah, I wonder what could possibly be a massive-enough dealbreaker to overcome “looking good”?Some suggestions:
    - Helfer’s lack of acting ability
    - Helfer’s lack of suitability for the role
    - Helfer’s lack of the requisite union membership
    - Helfer’s lack of the appropriate accentI don’t know how much each of those four applies, but I’d have though that maybe, just maybe, any one of those four could by itself (and certainly when combined) be so titanically massive that even the otherwise indefeasible obligation to cast women you think “look good” may have been outweighed…    

    Yea because she did some an atrocious job that people were screaming for her to get off BSG. Oh wait. The other three I have no clue and I doubt anyone will unless one of the producers explains it or shows her audition tape. As much as people hate hearing this, looks and how you carry yourself can go a very long way in making people believe a certain actor IS the character.

  110. Vohdre
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Userj, I concur with everything you said. Helfer has never done it for me as an actress. Nor have Summer Glau or Felicia Day. Now it doesn’t mean I don’t think they’re cute….

  111. Tysnow
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Wastrel,

    Your first comment is an opinion, it is not a statement because it is neither true or false.
    The second comment is also an opinion. Only your later two comments can be stated as truth or falsehood, because said individual must meet a particular requirement to act in the UK, the former can be remedied by becoming a member and the later, instruction from a dialect coach.
    Therefore since all your comments are either an opinion or a statement than can be remedied, there is no tuth to your arguments.

  112. paulgude
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Completely off-topic, but according to this article part of the inspiration for Chewbacca came from an illustration by John Schoenherr for an issue of Analog to accompany GRRM’s story, “And Seven Times Never Kill Man.”

    [url]http://binarybonsai.com/2010/09/18/george-lucas-stole-chewbacca-but-its-okay/[/url]

    It makes me wonder how pervasive Game of Thrones material is going to be in our culture after the show airs. While it will certainly be a show for adults, I have a feeling there will be a few kids drawn to the merchandise and/or end up seeing it anyway. Will I be walking around ten years from now and see twenty-somethings wearing t-shirts with Stark and Lannister heraldry on them?

  113. dizzy_34
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    I’d love for that to be the case but, cart’s in front of the horse on that one. I’m just hoping for season 2 at this point.

  114. c0venant
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    Tysnow,

    I would dare to say that judging someones skills as an actor is possible. There are good and bad actiors just as there are good and bad carpenters.
    It is only difficult for us to judge objectively since we may dislike or like certain attributes and thus we are subjective.
    It is also difficult since there are so many different types of actors and as many different ways of acting.
    Some actors always play the same roll over and over while others change characters as if they were changing their clothes.
    I wouldnt call the former actor bad since he may do that roll extremely well but Im sure impressed by the former. Gary Oldman, anyone?
    There are also many different techniques in acting from the minimalistic up to the theatrical with its grand gestures.
    The extreme cases are not that hard to judge though.
    Would anyone call Robert DeNiro a bad actor?
    Would anyone call Arnold Schwarzenegger a good actor?
    Still this says nothing about the quality of the movie which they are in. Sometimes I have had more enjoyment from watching Arnold than from Robert.

  115. Nymeria
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    OT

    I think I found my perfect mental image of Brienne.

    6’2″ World-class Lithuaninan Heptathlete Austra Skujyte

    Too bas she isn’t an actress…

  116. JackSparrow
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    I would caution people against taking this article about Helfer auditioning for GoT as true. Rumors and untruths are printed frequently by a lot of poor journalists, and the obvious inconsistencies in this article make it particularly untrustworthy. At a guess, and this is just a guess, Helfer mentioned GoT for some reason, maybe because her name had come up so frequently among fans (and maybe some articles that mentioned the property’s fanbase), and the author of the article then confused GoT with another project that she mentioned having auditioned for more recently. The apparent facts that her audition was recent, and that she lost out to Elizabeth Banks (though I wouldn’t trust anything in the article to be true), both point to the project in question not being GoT. Also, wasn’t Helfter pretty much ruled out by fans as a possible actress at the time of the pilot auditioning because of her commitmen to another project at that time?

  117. paulgude
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    dizzy_34,

    I completely get that.

    For me it’s two completely different modes of thinking. Like, just a little while ago I was wondering if my daughter will ever use commercial space travel, but right now I’m wondering how I’m going to pay to get the brakes fixed on my car.

  118. Wastrel
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    Tysnow,

    You don’t know how arguments work, do you?

    First off, I wasn’t arguing anything, I was suggesting something: namely, that there might be valid, and even quite unsurprising, reasons to not cast Helfer, despite her looking nice. If I had said “Tricia Helfer CANNOT be cast in GoT”, you might have a point. But I didn’t.

    Second, of course some opinions are true and some opinions are false. If your opinion is that Tashkent is in Asia and my opinion is that Tashkent in Antarctica, your opinion is what we professionally like to call “true”, while mine is, as the term goes, “false”. True, false – this is an important distinction we may want to remember later.

    In this case: I rather think that it is true that Helfer would have been inappropriate for the role; and I think it may well be true that she lacks the acting ability as well (on the basis of BSG; it’s quite possible that she’s capable of better when given a more challenging role).

    This, however, is quite beside the point, as I never claimed that either of them were TRUE, only that both of them were POSSIBLE. This too is an important distinction.

    I think a third distinction that may be confusing you is that between TRUE and PROVABLE. It’s quite true that nobody can prove that I am a bad actor, but that doesn’t mean it’s not true that I’m a bad actor.

    You may well want to say that only what is provable can be true. But this runs into five big problems:
    1. Most people believe that statements like “Robert De Niro is a good actor” are, or at least might be, true. Indeed, being true or false is a large part of why these statements are made, a large part of what is meant, words only mean what people use them to mean.

    2. Even more people believe that statements like “I have a headache” or “Hitler hated Jews” are, or might be, true. Yet neither is provable. We can prove things like “Hitler killed a lot of Jews and said hostile things about them”, but we can’t prove that he actually HATED them. Maybe he just wanted attention. And we can prove that my head-muscles are very tense, or even that my brain is exhibiting a pattern of electrical discharges that is often correlated with pain, but we can’t prove that I actually have a headache (I may have no conscious experience of pain even if my brain is ‘sensing’ or ‘generating’ pain signals, due to some neurological, chemical or psychological abnormality).

    3. If you read more into the subject of provability, you’ll discover that the true/provable distinction is hardwired into science, via its mathematical foundations. Crucially, Kurt Goedel’s seminal work demonstrated that, in any logical system that isn’t trivially useless, there MUST be claims that are true and yet unprovable in that system.

    4. If you read more into a different aspect of the matter, you’ll discover that ALL proof is proof within the confines of a set of shared axioms. Therefore, if we demand that something be ‘provable’ in the sense of provable to every person whatever their beliefs, nothing is provable – but, if we accept that we only want provability to the majority, or to some other subset, then lots of things become provable that are not positivist – things like value judgements. The distinction between provable and unprovable is a fuzzy, quantative one, not a qualitive distinction.

    5. The claim “unprovable propositions lack a truth value” is itself unprovable, because the condition of NOT having a truth value is not something that can empirically be demonstrated (more generally: it is never possible to prove that a thing, in this case the truth-value of “Tricia Helfer is not a good actress” DOESN’T exist). Your argument is thus based purely on, as you put it, “opinion”, and hence of no value.

    ——-

    One final point should be made. You assume that those two points were value judgements. Which they were, but they weren’t just that. Let’s go back to Hitler. We can’t “prove” that Hitler hated Jews. But if we can (as we can) prove that he orchestrated genocide against them, most people would accept that as sufficient evidence. Because we’ve got two things: the intangible proposition, about ‘hatred’, and the tangible one about massacre. We cannot prove the first, but we can “operationalise” it by selecting indirect indicators that we accept as ‘close enough’ to what we meant.

    In the same way, it is easy enough to operationalise claims about acting ability. Good actors will in general be applauded by critics and other professionals, including other actors; they will in general be in works that are better than those with bad actors; they will in general be considered good by the public at large. Put simply: good actors put in good performances, which go together to make good works. Of course, this isn’t absolute, but then neither is most of science – it’s a statistical point.

    Now, we don’t know how well Helfer would act in GoT, because it hasn’t happened yet, and may never happen. But this is how science works: the claim that she is not an actress who would do well in GoT (either due to acting limitations or to unsuitability for the role) is not just a value-judgement, but also a hypothesis. It may, or may not, be borne out by future observations. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be true or false – on the contrary, some hypotheses are true and some aren’t. The difference between the two is what we call “science”.

    ——-

    However, this is somewhat beside the point, since, as you’ll note, I never SAID she wasn’t a good actress. I SUGGESTED that she might not be a good enough actress.

    I conclude that your argument is simplistic, juvenile and ill-thought-through.

    [And no, dialect coaches can't always deal with accent problems. Many great actors just aren't good at accents. Witness Sean Connery!]

  119. Gecc1
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    I guess debating Helfer’s merits are, at this point, a purely theoretical exercise.

    But I must say this.
    There are some roles that don’t require a good actor because the actor is already “THE” character. Anyone remember Jaye Davidson in the Crying Game?

    Tim Allen is a good actor and Alan Rickman is simply awesome. I totally loved them on Galaxy Quest. But can anyone doubt that Galaxy Quest would’ve made an extra $100 million if Shatner and Nimoy had been cast instead? Alan Rickman is a better actor than Leonard Nimoy, but Nimoy was THE actual character.

    Last Example. Would you cast Meryl Streep instead of Kim Bassinger in Wayne’s World 2? Streep is the better actor. Hmmm. Let’s see how that goes.

    Meryl Streep: “I need you to kill my husband”.
    Garth: “Hmm! Murder. I don’t know about that.”
    Meryl bends down and pulls open Garth’s zipper.
    Garth: “What are you doing?”

    Replace Meryl with Kim Basinger.

    Basinger: “I need you to kill my husband”.
    Garth: “Hmm! Murder. I don’t know about that.”
    Kim Basinger bends down and pulls open Garth’s zipper.
    Garth: “He’s a dead man… A dead man.”

    Helfer is Cersei for me. She looks good enough that you would consider killing a man for her, or doing her if she were your sister. Her face has that smirk that says, why am I even talking to an insect like you? You don’t need to see what she does in the first to episodes to hate her. You already can’t stand her even though looking at her gives you a hard on.

    She doesn’t have to play Cersei. She is the character.

    That said.
    If everyone else on the show is doing a british accent and she can’t pull that off.
    Well then…
    Let’s move on.

  120. Jehphg
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    paulgude,

    i don’t doubt, for the time i’ve been lurking around here i noticed most the fans are 30ish or something like that, i by the other side am nineteen, so far i didn’t find no one younger, but after the show airs i think that at least some kids of 14 and the like, will be watching the show.

  121. paulgude
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Jehphg,

    When I think back to when I was a kid, anyone who had seen The Terminator or Dune would kind of hold court and describe it to those of us whose parents wouldn’t let them. I expect the same thing might happen here.

  122. Chris
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Definitely agree with Wastrel, if Helfer did audition its not some crazy anomaly that she didn’t get the role. It’s probably as simple as the producers liked someone better for the role. Could be because of her acting, or her look, or her accent, or her not being from the UK, or all sorts of things.

    I do know, from years on the internet, that actresses in a lot of these genre shows develop some deeply devoted fans who think that their actresses are no-brainer choices for just about any role. I’m glad the casting directors aren’t going to say “OMG its Six from BSG, she HAS to get the role!” they are weighing all sorts of different factors and comparing what is probably a decent sized pool of amazing actresses who would all be good for the role. They definitely get my respect because it has to be a very difficult job for a production of this level.

  123. Jehphg
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    paulgude,

    Yeah, probably, but i still think that those who want enough to watch but the parents won’t let will end watching by some ilegal way, like downloading the series via torrent or something like that, it would not be the first time that a teenager watches something the his ou her parents don’t aprove right?

  124. Jarred Melancon
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    Wastrel:Snip

    Sigh. You’re arguing semantics and logic arguments on an internet board. You’re correct that you never stated she was a bad actress, you just implied it. You have no tangible evidence that Helfer is a bad actress as that by itself is a value judgment. I have never seen anyone criticize Helfer for bad acting, maybe bad dialog but that certainly isn’t on her. Instead of jumping down people’s throats when they saw an actress looks the part moreso than another actress, how about you calm down first.

    Gecc1 nailed the meaning behind my first post exactly. She has the part down in regards to looks.

  125. Nymeria
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    c0venant: Because here are nice people. Apart from the lovable admins there are Lex and Nymeria.
    Brilliant people.

    Wow I’m flattered, ser !
    You’re quite the gentleman :)

  126. durandal
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    Leaving her acting abilities aside, I don’t get the obsession for Helfer as Cersei neither. I’m sure there are lots of actricess around who look the part just as well as she does. Or better. IMO she looks a bit too contemporary. In that regard Victoria Smurfitt would have been a better choice, for example.
    Here she is standing next to Rattleshirt. :-)

  127. Tysnow
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    How possible would it be for HBO to edit a PG13 version of Games and air that during family hours, it would bring in a whole other demographic and they could sell lunchboxes, toy swords, Cersei dolls with different outfits, toy castles, Tourney playset with (2) jousting knights, then you buy seperate knights to complete the set. I mean by creating a version younger ages can watch they open up a possible marketing goldmine.
    We fans and adults would still have our hard R version and can buy collectible swords, fancy figures, jewelry, lithographs, etc.

  128. Shinyteapot
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    Even if Helfer’s audition was brilliant, that doesn’t preclude someone else being better.

    I trust the casting team to pick whoever is right for each role- it won’t always be the people fans think of, but they see the auditions and we don’t. For example, it would never have crossed my mind to cast Iain Glen as Ser Jorah, but I think he’s perfect.

  129. Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    for people who think TH is a bad actress. did you actually watch BSG? the same BSG that everybody else watched? are you sure you didn’t maybe watch the “old” BSG and maybe mistake some other actress for TH?

    the scenes where she is beaten and raped in the Galatica holding cell alone show what she is capable of. to have to encompass so many different Six personalities and to pull them off so seamlessly could not be done by a “bad” actress. i am simply flabergasted how anybody could have watched that whole series and not been impressed by her work. initially i wanted to not like her and her inclusion in the show because she was “just a model” and in the first few episodes all she did was play the seductress and vixen (tho she did that well). but even wanting to not like her i had to eventually come to respect her as an actress (much to my surprise and chagrin) as the character of Six (all versions) unfolded and became infinitely complex and multi-faceted and she continued to call it off with utter conviction.

    as for Summer Glau i think her work in Firefly, TSCC and Dollhouse speaks for itself. anybody who thinks she is “bad” is just a hater. is she jodie foster? no. but she is by no means “bad”. and of course the point of my bringing her up was to show what “look” i thought would be perfect for my conception of Dany. plus i find it ironic that anybody would slag on the suggestion of Summer in the Dany role when the person cast has been in a handful of commercials and some school production. you less than no body of work to judge her acting in comparison to Summer so doing so just makes you look foolish.

    as for Felicia my point was if we are going to get behind wanting to put somebody who is a fan of the books into the show why not somebody who is actual an actor and somewhat known with a body of work (whether you think it is top level acting or not) instead of some random internet guy. how is getting behind the YouTube guy a good thing and Felicia a dumb thing? we may not agree on how good of an actor Ms Day is but i can sure as shit say that she is better than that Joe guy who’s audition video could only be called flatteringly mediocre at best. i would not mind any number of other actors playing Ygritte, many of whom would most likely be better suited both looks and talent wise than Felicia but that wasn’t the point of that suggestion. the point of that suggestion was the gap between her and the “best ideal candidate actor” for Ygritte is sure as hell a lot smaller than the gap between “random youtube guy” and the “best ideal candidate actor” for maynce rader. if we are going to support a fellow fantasy/sci-fi nerd(ess) and fan of the books to get a role in the show why not make it somebody with some actual experience and talent not to mention fans that might follow her into viewing the show.

  130. Winter Is Coming
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Well if we want to support the absolute best actor who is also a fan of the books, I think Garret Dillahunt would be the choice. He reportedly has read the books and would like to be in the series.

    But I think the reason people get behind Joe is not just because he is a fan of the books but also because he is not a well-known actor. If he got a part, it would be like one of us getting cast in the show. People root for him because of that perception. Felicia Day has enough celebrity that her getting in the show, while cool for her, wouldn’t be seen as “average ASOIAF fan gets cast in Game of Thrones.”

  131. Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming: Well if we want to support the absolute best actor who is also a fan of the books, I think Garret Dillahunt would be the choice. He reportedly has read the books and would like to be in the series.But I think the reason people get behind Joe is not just because he is afan of the books but also because he is not a well-known actor. If he got a part, it would be like one of us getting cast in the show. People root for him because of that perception. Felicia Day has enough celebrity that her getting in the show, while cool for her, wouldn’t be seen as “average ASOIAF fan gets cast in Game of Thrones.”    

    i can see that. i would like to have seen Dillahunt as Bronn. or really almost anybody. he just made me despise him in Deadwood. sign of a truly great actor to be able to pull of such a completely contemptible and loathsome character but still be compelling. much like Roth in Rob Roy.

  132. Hodor
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Tysnow,

    For now I would settle with the 3 headed dragon banner for my phone, with maybe ‘A bear there was, a bear, a bear! ‘ for ringtone.
    Android geek should have no problem making ‘You have 1 new raven my Lady/Lord.’

    Geek-cred. goes through the roof. surely.

  133. Tysnow
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,

    Well said Jacopo, I too wonder if some of these TH haters did see the same BSG show that we watched. I like how you established the multi-personalities that TH had to tranform into while in each Six version and how her performance grew stronger as the show progressed bringing in the multi-faceted acting of TH as each version of Six faced different stories and obstacles than the other.
    That is the sign of a talented actress, Heady is a higher caliber talent mind you, but please don’t knock Helfer as being a bad actress.
    As for Felicia Day, YUMMY she can say to me “You know nothing” all day long.

  134. Wastrel
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    Jarred Melancon,

    No sir, I’m explaining logical arguments. And yes, I’m on the internet – I missed the memo where that meant we should be irrational, unpleasant, and dismissive of anything resembling coherent thought. I think I should speak rationally, therefore I think I should speak rationally on the internet as well. There’s no part of being here that means that people can’t be expected to understand simple sentences.

    Speaking of which: I did not imply that she was a bad actress, I said that that may have been a reason not to cast her. Which, unless it’s suddenly either impossible for her not to be the best actress in the world, or they’ve decided never to pick to the best actress on principle, it most certainly may be. This is an explicit hypothetical, which is fundamentally different from an assertion, even an implicit one.

    And… well, I can only salute your good temper and that of those you know. Because, my good man, if writing a lengthy, verbose and very boring dissertation on truth-functionality, provability and verificationism is what counts in your society for “needing to calm down”, well, I’m amazed that crimes of passion still occur in the world. You must think of those kooky, wild accountants the way the rest of us think of stunt drivers and secret agents.

  135. Tysnow
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    Hodor,

    She kicked and wailed, the maid so fair,
    But he licked the honey from her hair,
    Her hair! Her hair!

    Then she sighed and squealed and kicked the air!
    My bear! She sang. My bear so fair.

    My ringtone would have this verse, though have to be careful who was around when it rang off, as I wouldn’t want to perverse young impressionable minds.

  136. FlayedandDisplayed
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    I’m very happy that Lena Headey has the role. I also suspect that on screen, opposite Mark Addy, her bitchiness is going to be somewhat understandable… talk about him batting out of his league. I think there’ll be some great screen chemistry between her and Nikolai CW with all the baggage that comes with it, plus as a new mum I think she’ll be able to draw out Cersei’s love of her kids and display that on screen. With the change in perspective that the show will have from the books, Cersei is likely to be a character the audience has more sympathy for and one whos actions are quite understandable. I look forward to watching Cersei develop on screen.

    As for a woman men would kill for? did you see 300? but Cersei is a lot more complex than being sex on a stick.

    Wastrel, we had a politician in my country a few years back whose put downs were so legendary that both sides of the house used to applaud them. (Stands and applauds).

  137. coltaine777
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    The reason alot of people have gotten behind Joe is because of your obvious love for the guy …if you had not pushed him we would not be talking about him…and yes that’s my opinion…

  138. paulgude
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    Jehphg,

    I expect so. Technology was a bit more on my parents’ side for a while, until the advent of “friends with frequently absent parents who had VCRs” in the late 80′s.

  139. paulgude
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    I think we’re quick to talk about any or all audition tapes here, and I’d agree with what Winter says about the, “One of us!” factor.

    I thought it was awesome when Kristian Nairn got Hodor because for a while he was just one of many tapes of people we had watched.

    I’d also say that while Winter promoting Joe’s tape definitely happened, it’s Joe’s charm and willingness to interact with people that got them on his side. If he’d just been a random no-talent jerk he wouldn’t have had this longevity.

  140. Winter Is Coming
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    coltaine777: Winter Is Coming,
    The reason alot of people have gotten behind Joe is because of your obvious love for the guy …if you had not pushed him we would not be talking about him…and yes that’s my opinion…    

    Well I’m flattered that you think I have that much sway over the hearts and minds of Game of Thrones fans! In truth, I did not push Joe all that much. If you look, the last video was the only one which got its own post. All the others I reported on very briefly in posts with other news items. And most of the time it was a few days after it had already been posted. By the time I had gotten around to posting about it, many of the videos had already thousands of views and near a hundred comments. So I think Joe had already endeared himself to the fans without too much help from me.

    Did more people see his videos because I reported on them? Sure. That doesn’t mean I forced them to like him.

    And I report on any interesting and relevant Game of Thrones related news. I’ve posted about other fan audition videos in the past and will likely continue to do so, especially if they are as unique and entertaining as Joe’s.

  141. GaR
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    coltaine777,

    I support Joe because he’s enthusiastic and motivated, and seems to be a decent actor too.

    As for the Helfer issue, I don’t much care. She’s hotter than a thousand suns (I haven’t seen the later seasons of BSG yet, so I’ve only seen her hot terminator thing), but HBO know a thing or two about casting, and Headey’s a great choice. I’m willing to go so far as to say that HBO know what they are doing, and if they chose Headey, then that was probably the better choice.

  142. coltaine777
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    lol more power to you…and yes you do hold the hearts and minds of many ASOIF fans…I’m one of them…and credit to you for giving ‘the average joe’ the spotlight…you and your team , along with Westeros and all sites that promote this endeavor deserve credit…just stating that your opinion does sway many poster opinions…no insult intended to you or other posters…

  143. rtm1981
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    Wow. This is getting embarrassing. ’nuff said, I think.

  144. Kanga
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?, Tysnow,

    Tysnow: Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,
    Well said Jacopo, I too wonder if some of these TH haters did see the same BSG show that we watched. I like how you established the multi-personalities that TH had to tranform into while in each Six version and how her performance grew stronger as the show progressed bringing in the multi-faceted acting of TH as each version of Six faced different stories and obstacles than the other.
    That is the sign of a talented actress, Heady is a higher caliber talent mind you, but please don’t knock Helfer as being a bad actress.    

    Thank you, both of you. I was starting to feel like this was turning into a ‘Let’s all trash Tricia Helfer!’ thread, I’m glad someone stood up for her.
    I liked her on BSG, I thought she did a good job. Especially with her not actually being an actress at the time, in my mind that was pretty impressive how much range she had, and how well she was able to differentiate between the different Sixes without visual aids like Boomer and Athena’s different hairdos. My guess is that’s a lot harder than it looks. I mean, the difference between Caprica Six and Head Six alone is evidence enough that she can act, in my opinion anyway.
    I understand that some people don’t like her, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but the negativity’s getting pretty intense in some spots. Chill out guys, it’s just television :P

  145. Grimtuesday
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Jehphg,

    I’m eighteen so I’m the youngest that I know of. I think that some parents will allow their kids to watch it, the first episode until parents who are just watching it with no prior knowledge discover this is not for kids (until the Dothraki wedding that is, then it will suddenly be bed time). I know my little brother who is fourteen will be watching it with me. He’s already read the books so I don’t think my parents will have much of a problem letting him watch it.

  146. pualo
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    There must be tons of teens and smarter pre-teens who have read the books and are fans. I imagine they’ll all want to see the show, and most of them will. Everyone over twelve watches porn on the internet anyway, so it shouldn’t be a big deal.

  147. Tysnow
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    Wow, I have to more careful with grammar after reading Kanga’s reply to my thread as I did not notice the errors in my post. Need to take time and think through instead of rushing.

  148. PointyEnd
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    About the armor….

    Westeros is far more globally aware than Europe in the Middle Ages. Westeros was invaded and conquered on a far larger scale than England ever was. Westeros has been using medieval tech for at least twice as long than the tech prevailed on Earth.

    This means that culture and weapons in Westeros can be far different than what happened in Europe. Westeros is made-up. It’s make believe. Eastern influenced armor is highly welcome. It’s great to see ethnocentric designs and thoughts challenged by an actual awareness of a larger world.

    Remember, A Game of Thrones is NOT a period drama. It never happened. It’s not even alternate history. It’s pure fiction. Different cultures clashing and becoming something new is one of the hallmarks of the series. Armor that we recognize as non-European should be embraced and hopefully it occurs often; it makes the visual story far grander in a very economical and practical manner.

  149. Tysnow
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    Tower of the Hand has a nice video of GRRM’s Q&A session at this years Worldcon from Down Under. Apparently it is the first of three video segments.

  150. Tysnow
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    PointyEnd,

    Damn!, stick’em PointyEnd, best overall opinion I have seen on the theory behind the armor design by the GoT costuming department. You need to post this over on Westeros, many of them went ballistic over the series take on Westerosean armor. I wouldn’t doubt if some of them sent nasty coorespondence to HBO over what they deemed an unnecessary and almost sacrilegious alteration to their vision on the subject.

  151. Fluke200
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    I’m usually just a lurker, but given the dearth of substantive news, and my unwillingness to hear any more debate about Helfer’s acting abilities, I thought I would bring up a new topic.

    I am extremely disappointed by the lack of activity on HBO’s Making of Game of Thrones website. After a promising beginning of five posts at once, I assumed that we would be getting more updates on a weekly basis, if not more frequently. Unfortunately, we have heard nothing since then. Is it to soon to get upset about the lack of activity on the site? Does anyone have ideas about what might be behind this silence? Maybe I’m being too impatient, but I can’t be the only one who feels a bit let down by HBO in this regard.

    Thoughts?

  152. Demokritos
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    PointyEnd,

    I have to disagree. I agree that Westerosi armor shouldn’t be kept entirely within the realm of what Europe factually had in medieval times, but I think using obviously Japanese, etc. styles is a bad idea for the same reason that using Chinese as the Dothraki language would have been. If the viewer is watching a show set in a mostly-European-based setting and sees armor that superficially screams “Japan”, that’s off-putting. Borrowing a little from this and that culture outside Europe IS a good idea, but it’s important not to borrow too much from any one source. From what we’ve seen so far of the Lannister guard armor (which is admittedly very little and could be giving false impressions), I’d say they took it too far in one direction, visually. Using Samurai armor as some of the inspiration is fine, but when we see the Lannister guards we should think “Lannisters,” not “Samurai.”

    Also, what are you basing the statement that “Westeros was invaded and conquered on a far larger scale than England ever was” on? England was completely dominated by Rome for a few hundred years, then by Vikings for a few hundred, and then by France for a few hundred. I’d say it and Westeros’s histories of getting conquered are pretty much even.

  153. Brad
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    I’m not “trashing” Ms. Helfer, but I honestly don’t think she’s a good fit for GoT, especially in a role as central as our gracious queen. I want to see presence and poise in the GoT actors.. not the poise of a fashion model, the poise of age, wisdom, honor, calculation, deceit. Depth.

    Further opinion incoming: She was a great actress in Battlestar Galactica, a show that was good but not great. It leaned a bit to hard on the “grim n gritty” aesthetic. I imagine GoT will be a wonderful example of how to do “grim n gritty” correctly. As GRRM did, as an undercurrent, in stunning, sudden action sequences, in small details.

  154. Lex
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    Fluke200,

    Yes, it’s too soon to complain about the HBO Making GOT website. It’s only been ten days. Sure, Cogman says he’ll try to update us each week, but I knew from day one that it was probably not something to take literally. There is nothing set in stone, no set deadline. We’ll get updates when we get them, and it’s still only been 10 days since that literal bonanza of new stuff (trailer, production video, stills, blog updates, etc.).

    As for the Helfer debate, I think she’s a decent actress but probably not a good fit for GOT.

    As for the armour debate… I think it’s being blown out of proportion. The “samurai” armour does not “scream Japanese” to me. We’ve only seen ONE still frame shot of it, and it is partially out of frame. I think people are way too worried about this supposed samurai armour.

    To be honest, the Kingsguard armour is more worrisome to me, as is the lack of white cloaks, and the general lack of surcoats and brightly-coloured heraldry.

  155. Jarred Melancon
    Posted September 22, 2010 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    Brad: s each week, but I knew from day one that it was probably not something to take literally. There is nothing set in stone, no set deadline. We’ll get updates when we get them, and it’s still only been 10 days since that literal bonanza of new stuff (trailer, production video, sti

    The amusing part is that almost none of those descriptions except deceit actually fit Cersei.

  156. Demokritos
    Posted September 23, 2010 at 12:20 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    I know we only saw one still so far, and pointed that out. I wasn’t so much criticizing the armor itself (which I admitted we don’t have sufficient knowledge of) as the idea that using blatantly Japanese (or Chinese, African, whatever) -influenced armor for Westeros would be a good idea. I DO think the armor screams “Japan” in the screenshot we’ve got so far, though. Very kabuto-esque helmet, banded armor… Obviously not wholesale copied off anything actually from Japan, but it still very much evokes Japan and not really anything else.

    Again, though, not enough to go on for any final judgments: Based on the information at Westeros.org, the flaps on the side of the helmet are hinged and can be pulled down to form a visor, for one thing. For another, the fact that Lannister guards are wearing it doesn’t mean all or even more than a couple Lannister guards wear it: they could even be hired guards from across the narrow sea for all we know. So I’m not trying to say anything about what the finished product will look like, just that if most people’s interpretation of the minimal evidence we’ve got so far ends up being confirmed by what we see later and it’s an actual majority of the Lannister guards wearing that, it’ll be a misstep on the part of the costume department in my opinion. Not even nearly approaching a deal-breaker, but a misstep.

    Like you, though, I am more worried about the kingsguard stuff and lack of surcoats. No-name Lannister guards aren’t too huge a deal no matter what they wear, but a kingsguard with little/no white is kind of worrisome. Hopefully there’s more white than it looks like: the shot seems to be pretty shadowy. And there’s always post-production…

  157. Brad
    Posted September 23, 2010 at 1:52 am | Permalink

    Jarred Melancon,

    They weren’t meant to :-)

  158. FlayedandDisplayed
    Posted September 23, 2010 at 1:59 am | Permalink

    Just want to go on the record that I’m not a Helfer Hater. I loved BSG * and thought she was great in it. Believing Lena Headey will do a better job doesn’t mean I’m dissing Ms Helfer.
    (right up til Jesus revealed herself)

  159. Jehphg
    Posted September 23, 2010 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Grimtuesday,

    woah it’s good to know someone else around my age here. Lol! I’ve made my mom read and she is as crazy about the series as i am. She is starting aCoK now and i hope that as soon as my 17 years old vacation start she will read them too. Well, at least aGoT wich just won his own brasilian portuguese version in here!

  160. Elio & Linda
    Posted September 23, 2010 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    Tysnow,

    Pretty sure no one actually sent a letter to HBO. Just as I don’t imagine anyone here sent a letter to HBO complaining about how Gillian Anderson wasn’t cast as Catelyn or how aesthetically displeasing Tamzin Merchant was. ;)

    Re: PointyEnd,

    I don’t really agree that a lot of non-European armor makes the story grander. It seems, in fact, to strike against an important part of the narrative: that the Seven Kingdoms _is_ one fairly culturally homogenous area which must be preserved against the threat of internal rupture or external threat. If every area is going to look very different in the name of grandeur, in some sense it undercuts the argument that this should be all one realm — why should they, if their cultures have differing aesthetics, technology levels, or what have you?

    It’s fiction, it’s made-up, but the author already made certain choices regarding it. I can’t recall many people feeling that ASoIaF is lacking in grandeur.

    All that said, like others have said, I don’t think it’s samurai armor at all. Most of the pieces are straight European. It’s the color and maybe the strange helm (which, as we’ve reported, doesn’t seem to be very kabuto-like at all) that have thrown people, combined with earlier reporting that they had been _thinking_ of going more Asian with their appearance.

  161. Magus
    Posted September 23, 2010 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    I would not be surprised if GOT got renewed for another season. As a fan of TB, and utterly blown away by BE, as well as aSoIaF in general, I could see this happen. From what I understand and I could be wrong, GOT has gotten more fan attention then BE, so its safe to assume that the ratings for GOT will be as strong as that of BE, or if not stronger when the series pilot is aired next year.

  162. Winter Is Coming
    Posted September 23, 2010 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Tricia Helfer has confirmed via her Twitter that she auditioned for the role of Cersei.

    Yes it was Cersei. Got me interested in the books tho. Half way thru the 3rd one. Great books.

    This ought to add more fuel to the fire of Headey vs. Helfer, since we now know that Helfer is reading and enjoying the books, while Headey hasn’t read them and has shown no desire to.

    I should point out though, that Helfer may have only started the books because she didn’t get the role. Had she been cast, she may have avoided them so they didn’t wrongly influence her performance.

  163. The Rabbit
    Posted September 23, 2010 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    I am on Lena Headey’s bandwagon.

    Just sayin..

  164. OldGran
    Posted September 23, 2010 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    One of our intrepid extras said on an earlier post that YES there will be white cloaks.

  165. Lex
    Posted September 23, 2010 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    That’s so awesome that Tricia Helfer is reading A Storm of Swords right now.

    I still tend to think Headey was a better pick, because I don’t know how well Tricia can do a British accent. But I would probably have been happy either way.

  166. Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
    Posted September 23, 2010 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Lex: Winter Is Coming,
    That’s so awesome that Tricia Helfer is reading A Storm of Swords right now.I still tend to think Headey was a better pick, because I don’t know how well Tricia can do a British accent. But I would probably have been happy either way.    

    first let me say i love Lena and think she’ll be great. i was only defending TH against those who wrongly impugned her acting skills.

    but i would also have loved to watch TH as Cersei too and now that i know she is reading the books i am even more a fan of her general gorgeousawesomesexiness than before!

  167. DH87
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    Just swung by with the news that Sunday night’s Boardwalk Empire ratings dropped more than 30 percent from the premiere. That’s how fast the “TB audience” can disappear if the first episode isn’t compelling, no matter how much hype/marketing is expended by HBO. Critics were also lukewarm; I predict further erosion, unfortunately.

  168. Avalanche3319
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    Ouch. That doesnt help the odds of a quick season 2 order for GOT. I still think we’ll see one, but that doesnt help.

  169. sjwenings
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    Eh? I’ve seen a lot of good reviews for BEs first 4-5 episodes. And i would think it’s to be expected that a lot of TB fans would disappear anyway.

  170. DH87
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    You’re right—the series got a very high Metacritics rating, based on the first 3 eps, I believe. But the NYT and other NY-area media were the least enthusiastic and listen to the industry-influential Movieline.com:
    Things were slightly better on Boardwalk Empire during episode two…the Martin Scorsese-led trip down mob movie memory lane disappeared in favor of a more Sopranos-like sex and ultra-violence sheen. Except, of course, without any of the depth, character development or ingenuity…..the show has been the television version of a chocolate Easter Bunny: delicious on the outside, totally hollow on the inside.
    The HBO message boards remain moribund. And the NFL is only in week 2.

  171. sjwenings
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    Uh… so what?

  172. DH87
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    Well, as Avalanche indicated, the HBO model for GOT is BE: Big budget, big investment, big cast, big marketing, big expectations, big lead-in. If BE falls off the cliff, it may make HBO cautious about the quick Season 2 renewal of GOT (although probably won’t kill it) and it will, in my opinion, put tremendous pressure on those first two or three GOT episodes to deliver big numbers right out of the gate and hold the audience.
    BE lost almost half its time slot predecessor’s audience in one week: 5.5 million to 3.1 million. No one at HBO is going to think that is a good thing. A nice smooth trip for BE might have bought GOT more time.

  173. OldGran
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    Not surprised by the “ho hum” reaction to Boardwalk Empire. Not that it is terrible or anything, but it is yet another prohibition/gangster drama that we have all seen umpteen times. TB fans are used to the novel treatment of the vampire genre we were in danger of od-ing on thanks to Twilight.
    Game of Thrones has the advantage of introducing something fresh . GOT will be the standard for the fantasy genre, just like Soprano’s is the HBO standard for mafia genre. Maybe someone from BE should get lost in the Pine Barrens to boost ratings.

  174. sjwenings
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    I was saying “so what” to that one bad review you posted. Hardly matters much when most reviews are very positive.

    Also: While the drop in ratings might seem bad, it’s hard to say.
    Naturally we would see a certain drop due to people checking out the first episode, and not liking it. Happens to just about every new show. And in addition, it was expected that many subscribers would cancel their subscription after True blood ended. Many of them again would still wait to see if BE was intersting, and a certain portion of them would decide it was not to their liking. Not surprising, since TB and BE are very differen shows.

    What is the “normal” ratings of a popular HBO show anyway? 3.1 million seems good to me.

  175. sjwenings
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    Well, i checked the ratings for True Blood, and the first season had an average of about 2 million, the second 4 and the third 5.

    True blood is their most successful show nowadays, and was it ever expected that BE empire would be as popular? Does it need to be, to not disappoint?

    At least it seems like it will beat the first season of True blood, and has a decent chance of matching the second season. Seems pretty good.

  176. Elio & Linda
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    I suspect these numbers are squarely in the area of what HBO was expecting for the second week. Consider that last weekend, HBO was free for a lot of people, and a lot of popular returning shows (particularly A18-49 favorites like Family Guy, Desperate Housewives, and the Amazing Race) hadn’t had their premieres. BE faces sterner competition on the Fall schedule than TB does.

    4.4 million with the live repeat is a pretty good showing. Right now I think the show is tracking for a bit of a dip and then it may start to climb as some of the premiere heat tails off.

    Live+7 is the thing that’s really going to matter to HBO, I suspect, in measuring how much of a subscriber base the show is helping to retain and expand on.

  177. Silverjaime
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    I’ve always thought the ratings thing in USA is really complicated and with so many variables it’s really hard to predict what might happen to a new show. Is it that complex in UK does anybody know??

  178. DH87
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    TB completely blind-sided HBO in terms of its popularity. Alan Ball paid his lead actors comparatively little (none was considered a bankable star in 2007/8 when it began) and it is filmed literally on the back lot sound stages in Hollywood, with a few days of location shooting in Louisiana, nothing like the expenditures committed to BE. It is also a contemporary setting, which means no period sets, costumes, etc. The cost/benefit analysis was so good for TB that HBO has green-lighted a clone (Alan Ball, death related book adaptation) to start airing next year. TB is considered the door-0pener to the supernatural/fantasy genre that includes GOT.
    BE cannot be compared to a typical HBO show in terms of cost—it dwarfs it. It has to do much better because it costs so much more to produce. The good news is that HBO learned from the premature cancellation of Rome, it’s last big budget costume epic, that residual/auxiliary sales (DVDs, etc.) need to be factored into the profit/loss projections. Rome debuted at 3.8 million viewers in 2005 and was a ratings success but co-producer BBC pulled out after two years and HBO pulled the plug. (I think another poster here at some point provided some of this info previously.)
    So on one hand, BE’s 3.1 million viewership isn’t that bad when compared to Rome’s, but it is not good when compared to a low-cost drama, like TB.
    HBO decided not to seek a copartner for BE or GOT because of the bad taste left by the BBC pull-out, but that means HBO is footing all the bills on its own.
    In fairness, though, as someone said, any HBO show going up against NFL Sunday night is going to have its work cut out for it. It is the drop that is troubling, not the rating point itself.

  179. DH87
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Elio & Linda,

    Yep. It is subscribers that matter to HBO. I didn’t realize last weekend was a free weekend for HBO. No doubt that inflated those whopper numbers delivered by the first episode of BE.

  180. sjwenings
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    Yeah, it’s more expensive, but what MATTERS is that HBO knew that, and i assume they did not expect it to do as well/better than their biggest hit since Sopranos – True blood. They still did they whole thing. So i don’t see how they could have been disappointed by this.

    Only disappointment for HBO spells potential bad news for GOT. And many (already mentioned) factors seem to explain the drop well enough.

  181. Avalanche3319
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    I didn’t know last weekend was a free preview weekend for HBO! I would have watched the BE premier. I wonder if they’ll do the same thing when GOT premiers. Of course I’ll have HBO by then, but would still be nice to get more viewers.

  182. DH87
    Posted September 28, 2010 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    Avalanche3319,

    It may not have been free in all areas/for all cable providers. Those free weekends roll throughout the year, I believe, but it would make sense that a free weekend would be used to lure new subscribers to HBO’s marquee series during the broadcast networks’ so-called Premiere week.

  183. DH87
    Posted September 30, 2010 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    The BBC’s numbers guy Ben Stephenson said the first episode of Boardwalk Empire cost $20 million to produce (Deadline Hollywood). Many first-run indie films don’t have budgets much bigger than that. That’s a lot of cable/channel subscribers at $10 a month. HBO has to be slightly concerned, at least, if the numbers don’t stabilize.

  184. Winter Is Coming
    Posted September 30, 2010 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    DH87, but they’ve already ordered a second season. Surely if they were that concerned about what direction the ratings would go and how that would effect their bottom line they would have waited before giving the order?

  185. DH87
    Posted September 30, 2010 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    You’d think so but that is not the case. HBO had already made the commitment to a second season to pro-rate, for accounting purposes, the huge up-front expenditures for the enormous sets across two years. The second season was a fait accompli. HBO just waited for the big first-episode ratings (apparently partially orchestrated by the “free HBO weekend” described by Elio, above) to announce Season 2 so it could SEEM as though the decision was a response to the first episode. That’s how you build buzz. That’s show biz.
    If they are looking at the same strategy for GOT and BE stumbles, the shirts can either (1) double down by taking the same path, (2) pull a “Rome” and jump ship early, or (3) try to influence D&D to move more in the direction of the unqualified success of TB. (Specifically by providing more eye candy would be my guess.)
    Of course this is all a doomsday scenario, and BE could bounce back big-time, making the BE/GOT strategy look like pure genius. Just speculating, since there’s not much else to do between various very exciting updates….
    And BTW, talk of a TB movie, helmed by the same team as the series, is getting stronger every day. That would be a great model for a GOT film a few seasons down the road, too.

  186. DH87
    Posted October 5, 2010 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    For anyone still interested, the BE numbers stabilized against a strong NFL game Sunday night, at 3.1 million viewers.

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