One of our long term readers has written a substantial and well thought-out commentary to our previous post, displaying an analytical value worthy of what is going on in the head of the Hand of the realm, which is fitting, given his nickname. We thought it a text that deserves its own post, as it is helpful to those fresh to Game of Thrones, but familiar with True Blood. Without further ado, here is what Lord Ned’s Head has to say on the topic of comparing the two shows.
Speaking as a fan of both properties (I have read all the books of both series and watched every episode of TB on HBO), I am a pretty good authority on each and I’d like to welcome the TB ilk to the site!
Comparing the two series is pretty hard. I think its better to contrast them to show people unfamiliar with ASoIaF what they might expect from the series. There really are two big things that I think will set the shows apart from each other, but will also serve to provide HBO with two shows that compliment each other through their contrast.
The first big difference between the shows is the overall mood that they present to viewers. TB can be brooding, gory and emotionally grating at times, but it always manages to bring a fun, tounge-in-cheek quality to the audience. Its wild, racey and oftentimes shocking, but it almost always puts at least a little smirk on my face if not a true belly laugh. The overall tone of the show described as briefly as possible is “Ha!”
GoT takes itself far more seriously. Both shows have a type of fantasy element to them, and for those unfamiliar with him, George writes a quick witty dialogue that at times can be as sharp and funny as a Valyrian dagger. There is absolutely humor in the work, though its often used with restraint. In GoT we will(should) never get the zany type of comedy that TB presents. But we do get a gripping on-the-edge-of-your-seat story that is every bit addicting as V. In a word, I describe GoT as “Wow!”
The other big difference between the shows is the way they utlizie the source material. The Sookie books were all fun, but by themselves they would be a bit drab for an HBO show. Alan Ball has done an oftentimes (though I feel that in season three he sometimes crossed the line from raising the bar to “what will they do next” sensationalism) masterful job of keeping the Bon Temps world generally the same as the books, but giving us much more of a roller coaster ride than Charlaine Harris chooses to. The biggest thing I look forward to with TB is to watch and see what Mr. Ball will do to shake up events that happen in the books. The twist in the season one ending was my favorite change of all for example. I don’t think I am alone in this. Fans of TB love the whacky changes that HBO brings.
In contrast, fans will be ready to dump a pot of molten gold on D&Ds heads if they even think about deviating from the plot one tenth as much as Ball does with TB. GoT doesn’t need to be punched up. Fans want to see the finished project remain as close to the original source material as possible.
To finish, I just wanted to say that HBO should be content with the fact that it has two great series on its hands now. One is a campy, wildly exciting matinee type romp for grownups, the other is a serious, gritty paragon of epic story telling. Ultimately its the fans who are the big winners here. I’m psyched to be an HBO subscriber and plan to remain so for years to come with two great shows like these in the HBO stable.
Hear Me Roar: Me again. This piece manages to neatly express exactly the views I have on the matter, and I dare say the rest of the WiC team agrees as well. I hope that TB fans enjoyed reading it, and that you now have an even better idea of what Game of Thrones is all about.
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94 Comments
wow these posts about TB also work the other way around, they make me want to watch TB ;-)
LiesieQuote Reply
From the main posting:
“GoT doesn’t need to be punched up. Fans want to see the finished project remain as close to the original source material as possible.”
While I certainly agree with this, I start to wonder how GoT *could* be punched up and still maintain the general feel of the series. I’m drawing a blank.
SleekyQuote Reply
With all respect to the Hand, he may be one of the fans of TB who “love the whacky changes that HBO brings,” but there are plenty of us “pot of molten gold pour-ers”/CH fans who are about ready to jump ship if AB doesn’t get back to the core plotline of the CH series in Season 4. Season 4 is the moment of truth for many of the CH “bookies”: either AB delivers on a many scene/plot point or we’re out of there!
Many fans are hurt by the Hand’s well-meant use of “campy” in terms of TB. Although it obviously is, CH didn’t mean the series to be, and the serious followers are as disappointed as the GOT fans would be if mocked for some of the more fantastic elements out of context.
My point is, it isn’t the material that dictates how the fans react, it is the INVESTMENT the fans have. If you are invested in the CH material, you are bullshit about TB, even though you watch it. If you are invested in the GRRM material, you are going to be bullshit when mocked or dissed. Same difference.
DH87Quote Reply
Ok. Question. Why are even still dicussing comparing and contrasting Game of Thrones and True Blood? I’m sorry, I don’t understand.
Jeri MarieQuote Reply
Sleeky,
Knowing HBO, there is the “Baywatch” element that might be interpreted as “punching up” the series. AGOT may not deliver the same calibre of male pulchritude that the TB folks, at least, are used to (or, if it does, it is going to be hidden under doublets, wimples, or jerkins for too much of each episode). With no disrespect to the cast, only Jason Mamoa looks up to the task and he is…..well, we know what he is in terms of his longevity.
DH87Quote Reply
Jeri Marie,
Jeri,
For the same reason fans of an American League expansion team would discuss and comtrast the new team to the New York Yankees, I suppose: a mixture of envy, curiosity, and strong desire to replicate its success.
DH87Quote Reply
Im not a big fan of contrast. I prefer brightness.
Damryn of DorneQuote Reply
Jeri Marie,
We want to attract as many viewers of a majorly successful HBO series to get interested in Game of Thrones (and as a side effect, our site). A marketing stunt, if you wish, but we are sincere. It provides for some interesring and spirited discussion (on a high level the commnuty of the site is proud to maintain), as attested. Why now: it’s the first weekend without TB after season 3 ended, and Boardwalk Empire hasn’t started yet.
Hear Me RoarQuote Reply
With True Blood‘s season now ending, I thought it would be a good idea to try and capitalize on that audience to see if we can catch their attention with a new drama coming from HBO that may be up their alley. To that end, I enlisted FaB to write up a post outlining to Truebies what they might like about Game Of Thrones.
As to the accusations that True Blood was not a good comparison to Thrones, that may be true. Rome or Deadwood or The Sopranos might make closer matches. However those shows aren’t on the air. It is a little harder to effectively market to fans of those shows since there isn’t a clearly defined, large fan base to target.
And make no mistake, we do need to target large and established fan bases if this show is going to be a success. HBO obviously recognized the value of marketing Thrones to True Blood fans, having book-ended the season with promotional videos. I thought it would be a good idea to follow suit.
In my opinion, some interesting discussion about the nature of these two adaptations has come out of this topic. If you find these posts and the resulting discussion boring, never fear. Tomorrow should see a return to the usual Thrones news. :)
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
Winter Is Coming,
Let me suggest something else: for good or ill, we fans are in bed with HBO and how it does things. HBO interns industriously monitor the HBO boards traffic and the content of posts on its HBO boards (believe me, we know). I’d urge as many of you as possible to begin posting there under the now meager entries in their AGOT section, get established as a regular poster, be cheerful, upbeat, prepared to answer questions from complete, cold newbies who have suddenly heard about the series. Once the series airs, you are going to see hundreds/thousands of plaintive posts asking, “Who is Sansa?” “Is a direwolf a werewolf?” and other such stuff that, if left unanswered, will cause HBO boardies to leave and traffic to drop. You can either say F—them and be prepared for one or two seasons at most or become part-time tour guides/tour leaders.
Even more importantly, when D&D go to pitch Season 2, or some good, important thing they want to do with the series, the HBO execs who sign the checks will have a couple of sentences of input on how the show is being received based on the 24/7 chatter on its own site and elsewhere. I assume we all agree we want that to be positive.
DH87Quote Reply
Does somebody knows if we gonna have another teaser of GOT tonight before Boardwalk empire’s first episode?
humusTasterQuote Reply
I’m guessing they’ll replay the Raven teaser.
LexQuote Reply
Interestingly, the Raven teaser now has 120,000 views on Youtube (after only one week), whereas the original teaser trailer from June only has 17,000 views.
LexQuote Reply
I totally get the idea of attracting TB viewers to GoT. There are millions of them and if we want the show to be successful and continue we need those millions to watch GoT. it is that simple.
Now my personal opinion of TB is it is an okay show and a mediocre series of books. I mean it isn’t Twilight bad as far as the books and their screen translation goes but CH is no GRRM. This is not intended to be a slight but most readers who seriously think that CH books are “good fantasy” are not likely to be of the caliber to truly appreciate or even like GRRMs books. But luckily this is TV and not books. Some of the same issue applies to the shows, one is light amusing camp and one is (in theory) a very layered, dark and serious (with some sharp sarcasm) drama. And for those who think TB is truly epic and ground breaking TV GoT isn’t likely to appeal to them since it will be of such an intricate level of drama.
TB is basically the Glee of vampire TV shows. Glee is utter camp and cheeze but done in a way that is more clever and satisfying than the dozens of other high school tween TV shows. But Glee is not Deadwood or the Wire. Some viewers can appreciate well done camp but keep it in perspective. Those are the TB viewers we are going for. As for the TB viewers who think the likes of TB an Glee are the “best” that TV has to offer they are likely not really the target audience and there isn’t much hope of getting them. To those types GoT will just be a bunch of “boring politics and everybody getting killed and being mean”. Basically anybody who sees TB as a “pale shadow of Buffy but with more sex and gore and generally more enjoyable than shyte like Twilight or Vampire Diaries” are exactly the sort of people we want to attract to GoT. Anybody who thinks TB is just the “coolest and bestest TV show about vampires ever!” is probably a lost cause. These may also be the type of people that think that Lost was a “great” TV show and not just a series of meaningless and unending and haphazard and increasingly nonsensical plot twists culminating in one of the greatest anti-climaxes in TV history.
This analogy also works with say Doctor Who and BSG (minus the last half of the final BSG season … *eye roll*). One is enjoyable camp that is fun to watch and the other is great and ground breaking television. No reason you cannot watch both as long as you can keep straight which is which.
I am curious about the BBCs involvement. The BBC has a track record of doing fantasy TV series/mini-series using source material that is often of “lighter” fantasy fare or turning material into such. I am thinking about their versions of Terry Prachett’s Going Postal and MervynPeake’s Gormenghast that they did. Hopefully BBC are just providing the cash and not having much say in the tone or direction of the series and that is being left up to D&D (not HBO who might just try to “True Blood it up” if the ratings aren’t what they’d like). If anybody from the UK (or elsewhere) knows of any other fantasy series that the BBC (or anybody) has done I’d love to check them out if they are decent.
I would still love to see The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant turned into a serious TV series (this would never happen in the US even on HBO so maybe on BBC). If they can turn something as grim and hopeless as the Walking Dead into a TV series maybe there is hope for something as grim as Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever.
Who Is Jacopo Belbo?Quote Reply
How about someone starts contrasting GOT with The Wire, The Rome and Sopranos? True Blood is just cheesy…
m4st4Quote Reply
You are all talking about whipping up interest.
Lately I have become somewhat of a TV-nut. I guess Im following perhaps 30 series in total.
Therefore I have an interest in looking into upcoming shows. I know of perhaps 15-20 upcoming shows. Many evolve around police and crime but we can also find boxing, aliens, zombies and dinosaurs in the mix.
AGoT is the only upcoming show that is fantasy-related apart from Starz Camelot.
Looking into this I visit many different forums and I am always surprised about the lack of knowledge and info about aGoT.
Sure, to us it seems as if everybody knows about this but in general no one does.
I am aware that it is partly because it is cable but cable never stopped TB from becoming something almost CSI-sized.
I hope HBO will promote aGoT as they did TB before it premiered even if it is hard to do it in any similar way. I remember their approach was newslike and they treated the discovery of vampires in a documentary fashion. They showed intervievs with both people and vampires and in the beginning it wasnt even clear that the commercial was for an upcoming tv-show.
It been three years so my memory is a bit fuzzy.
I hope HBO finds some smart way to promote aGoT in a similar original way.
When it comes to us here doing our share of promoting I think we should turn to other forums and inform people.
I have done my share and started many different threads.
I also think we should turn to facebook and utilize its power by changing our status update to a premiere countdown when the time comes.
Such things spreads quickly Ive noticed. Winter-is-coming.net here have an enourmous power to make this happen by asking us to do this when the time comes.
As I said I watch many shows but there are only a handful really brilliant shows out there today. Many has ended such as The Wire, Sopranoes, The Shield, Rome, Six Feet Under. The new upcoming ones really deserve to be promoted in this world of dominating bad taste and braindead CSI-franchises.
c0venantQuote Reply
Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,
The biggest shock we’re going to see is in pacing and character development. TB carries 7 simple plot lines in a tiny town and a bar in nearby Shreveport and each plot line gets 6 minutes per episode, to shrieks of protest that not enough time is spent on each. AFOT dwarfs that by a factor of —what?—ten? D&D are either going to give us tiny helpings of the Seven Kingdoms each episode or we will go without seeing three kingdoms for weeks at a time. Non-book readers are going to be confused/frustrated whether they have Ph.Ds in medieval English history or just switched the channel from So You Think You Can Dance. We’re going to see Cersei reach for Jaime in episode one, move in for the kiss in episode 4 and loosen her bodice in episode 9. Whoops. Season over. For real.
DH87Quote Reply
Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,
I was dreaming of a series based upon Stephen Donaldsons Thomas Covenant chronicles just as I was about a series based upon the work of GRRM many years ago when there only was iMDB-threads about “which actor would you like to see as…” and we all knew it would never come true anyway.
Today we know dreams can come true.
So I have thought more actively about a show with our cynical white gold wielder.
I must say that I cant really see it making it to any screen.
The story is brilliant as books….soon to be nine in total, but on screen it would easily become very silly. GoT is more based on plot and dialogue where Stephen Donaldsons books would need enormous amount of CGI.
Still it is a warmly recommended read to all GRRM-lovers out there.
c0venantQuote Reply
You probably checked the teaser uploaded by HBO, there are other uploads, this one for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MophfvUlfI
humusTasterQuote Reply
Wow. Now that’s a dedicated fan. I mean, fans with that kind of time and engagement must be out there– for here we are, on a site run by fans, but frankly I’ve got better things to do. …… I hope the show does well, of course, why wouldn’t I?, but they’ll never be nor replace the books. The show doesn’t define my fandom or love of the books. It’s just another presentation/incarnation/exploration of the material I loved and discovered in the books.
I mean…. DH87, if you dislike HBO’s version of TB so much, why do you still watch it? It obviously doesn’t do anything that you like, right? It’s clearly not, by your judgment, a good representation of the books, nor an improvement on them. Perhaps it’s just time to divorce yourself from the show and love the books as their own entity.
Steve BQuote Reply
You know, I’m not sure, but that may have come off as confrontational, which was not my purpose. I just don’t understand why one would want to spend so much time talking about something full of negativity. It just seemed like you’d be better served by letting the show go, and focusing on what you loved more– the books. It also seemed (reasonably I suppose) to cloud your view of how things were going to go with GOT– that it was going to be a duplication of your experience with TB. Who knows? We haven’t seen much call to be alarmed yet though. The opposite, frankly– atleast on the point of fidelity to plot and character.
Still, even a good adaptation is still only an adaptation. I love the LotR movies, for example, but IMO even they pale in comparison to the books. Perhaps the movies do certain things better– creating a real sense of unease, creating kinetic tension (i.e. fight scenes)– but they clearly stumble with a number of other things (Tree Beard, endless dreamy Arwen scenes, too much slow mo, etc). Still, ya know, it’s just an adaptation. If I want the “real” experience, I just go and reread the books.
I dunno. I’m sure I must come off as preachy, trying to give advice. Just didn’t understand where you were really coming from. Why not just stop watching if you don’t like it?
Steve BQuote Reply
Steve B,
Steve,, easy answer: Fan input does influence the series’ direction. AB admitted as such. He made a serious mistake in Season 2 according to fan reaction and attempted to correct it in Season 3, which was literally completed seven days ago. He’s now writing Season 4. Some of us have been posting in a frenzy for whatever demented reason to try to influence HBO to move TB even further in the direction critics and fans think give it the best chance for a long life.
Far from “defining my fandom,” I post in support of book adaptations because they pave the way for other book adaptations. Posts are the language the great brains at HBO (insert sarcasm icon here) use to move them toward other such product. It isn’t an exaggeration to say that such fans are partially the reason D&D weren’t laughed out of the big HBO offices in Hollywood. But by all means, take the series or leave it, and use your flat screen as a laundry drying rack if AGOT tanks.
BTW, I have moved on from the TB boards, having been on them for less than six weeks. Yeah. Six weeks. That’s like six years in forum time for a season that is only twelve weeks long. Most folks get on while the season is ongoing, interact, then get off and go back to their lives. I literally had never posted to such a venue until six weeks ago.
Everyone bitches about how terrible film and tv are, but the consensus is that so long as the commercial film business is made up comic-book franchises and Jennifer Aniston rom-coms, HBO is the only game in town for halfway serious film work. Why else do you think Scorsese, Ball, et al. have series there?
Rant over!
DH87Quote Reply
Steve B,
Steve, sorry, our posts crossed and I now come across as snarky to your second post. It was not meant to be. As it happens, I am a novelist inordinately interested in the fate of the original material in both of these cases and taking a break from my own manuscript while I work some plot issues out. So I am unusually invested, at least, for the time being. I do have a life outside TB and AGOT. Thank god.
DH87Quote Reply
Cool. No bigee. I hear you about the value of having fans post– I agree that execs, in some ways, are listening. I just can’t imagine doing that if it didn’t give me pleasure to do so.
It just seemed like you really hated the TV version of TB. Do you like some of it? I guess you must. Why else complain about it not being better, right? :p
Steve BQuote Reply
Steve B,
Disappointed, after having high hopes, not only for CH’s series but also for adaptations in general. Kind of like an ill-fated romance: Season 1 was great, we were all in love; Season 2, rough going, we argued, made up, tried to make it work with hopes that after summer break we could start going steady again; Season 3, we’re really trying but that last fight under the bleachers really pissed us both off. All our friends now say we should break up and move on, we can do better. Love hurts.
DH87Quote Reply
Besides the ‘supernatural’ factor, there is very little in common between the two shows. One is present day, one is ‘middle-ages inspired’. True Blood is small-town. GoT spans continents. The worst that can happen on TB is you break up with your lover. You can die on TB if you’re a ‘plot-device’ or a ‘baddie’. The worst that can happen in GoT is the destruction of an entire kingdom(s), the suffering of thousands of people/peasants, and lotsa main/good characters buy the farm in real nasty ways.
No one checks their Facebook or cellphone on GoT. Then again, Ravens won’t run out of minutes on you. Well, until they die or are shot out of the sky by an archer.
Then again, for shock-value and adrenaline and WTF, game-changing, must-go-on-message-boards-now-and-scream-my-block-off moments, GoT is JUICY.
There’s your commonality. A wild ride. For grown ups :)
Franny BeeQuote Reply
Wow! I be honored ;P
Dh87 I think another big difference between the two shows is the intentions of the creative team from the beginning. AB never intended TB to be a faithful adaptation of the books. As I mentioned in the previous thread, I highly doubt TB would work for HBO that way and I don’t even know if the series would have been picked up. D&D however have stated from the inception that they intend to keep Thrones as close to the original material as possible.
I realise the wholesale changes in TB have angered and confused some fans of the books, but there are some of us who like it as well. The question is how far is too far and the answer is going to be different for everyone.
Lord Ned’s HeadQuote Reply
There are no such things as «lost causes» and «the sort of people we want to attract to GoT». I believe its in our best interest to have a huge and diverse fanbase, regardless of what shows they like. I think Lost is a GREAT tv show and I think TB is one of the best vampire tv shows i´ve seen. I happen to be a huge fan of the ASoIaF books too.
Am I a lost cause and not the sort of people who you want to attract to GoT just because my tastes in tv enterainment differ from yours?
Marco GodinhoQuote Reply
Lord Ned’s Head,
Ned, It’s hard to know what AB presented to HBO to get TB greenlit. Personally, I think the channel’s previous experience with AB was probably the most dominant factor. The current channel brass is responsible for green-lighting GENERATION KILL, TRUE BLOOD, THE WIRE (I believe), THE SOPRANOS, BOARDWALK EMPIRE, etc., and all of those series overlap personnel in a significant way. The only feedback we’ve heard trickle out from the HBOS suits on TB was (l) they turned down the first three choices of actor for the male lead, Bill, and (2) unconfirmed, they didn’t want the lead female to “sleep around” on the series. This is to show the level of input the suits may be interested in. If you talk to show-runners, most are underwhelmed by the quality of the “notes” (input) the channel/network sends back based on the episodes the suits preview. This is currently being discussed in the context of MAD MEN, where M. Weiner is so successful and so highly regarded that he is being given the ultimate accolade—-no “notes.” In this case, “notes” is truly a four-letter word, since notes from the network are never considered “good” in a creative sense.
DH87Quote Reply
DH87,
Its pretty obvious to me that a true recreation of the CH stories as they are would never have made the screen. AB recognised this from the beginning and decided to stir things up. You may disagree with him in his decision to do this, but I think its fairly clear that he never intended TB to be a straight redux.
It can definately be upsetting when one of your favorite books gets chewed up and spit out into an unregonizable glob of pulp and spit, but I don’t think that this is what AB has done with the Sookie books. He has definately had some misses but alot of his hits have been delicious fun. I guess the difference between me and other fans is that I realised this early on and accepted it. I actually embrance and look forward to the differences and try to pick them out as they happen. Everyone is entitled to their views, but sometimes if you surrender to the creative team’s whims and whiles, the experience can turn from a dissapointing critical reaccounting to a devlishly naughty homage to the source. That is how I choose to watch TB.
Lord Ned’s HeadQuote Reply
Lord Ned’s Head,
I’m sorry, Ned. Don’t try to make it up between Alan and me.
It’s over. He’s dead to me.
I’m just that kind of girl.
DH87Quote Reply
Meh. . . The Sookie Stackhouse books are poorly written romance twaddle with fantastical creatures. Alan Ball actually improved the hell out of the source material, giving the show WAY more depth than the books could aspire to. A Song of Ice and Fire is a VERY well written and deep series with an almost cinematic flair to it. There is no real reason to change much in GOT. I don’t see a reason to worry there.
ClangleeQuote Reply
So did anyone watch Boardwalk? How was it? Did they show the same previews before it aired?
Avalanche3319Quote Reply
Avalanche3319,
I’ve been avoiding these threads because I don’t watch True Blood but I saw your comment at the top of the list.
I only saw a standard HBO montage-to-music thing featuring probably 10 seconds of GoT footage (it was the Gared execution scene mainly I think) mixed with other upcoming series and their exclusive movies. I’ve seen that montage before. HBO does fantastic with those. I’m not expecting a full trailer for GoT until probably the season finale of Boardwalk Empire.
Anyway, speaking of, it was a great debut. Highly recommend it. As if we could’ve expected anything less from those involved…
ZackQuote Reply
I’m a huge fan of ASoIaF. That said, I love the True Blood HBO series but I really disliked the books and I think the folks who made the show did a great job with the source material, even if it’s not totally canon. With ASoIaF they will definitely have to compress the material for time constraints and leave out minor parts but the dialogue is already well-written along with the story which should make it easier for them to stay closer to the original source material.
As to attracting TB fans to GoT… I think for the most part they have very separate audiences. Unless they could work in a lot more sexual tension and romance between the main characters in GoT I don’t see too many TB fans tuning in. Something more akin to The Tudors, maybe.
MjolnirQuote Reply
I haven’t seen the script for the pilot for GoT, but as far as I can figure it, there won’t be any pervasive deep perspective, any deep 3rd person, any narrative accompanying a particular point of view. Motives for characters doing what they do will have to be conveyed in other ways. Sure the dialogue will be there, but the actors will have to convey motivation in other ways – it’s a different medium after all. Facial expression and the way characters look at each other on screen is far more effective than it is in print. We might find religion played up a bit more too as a way of glimpsing a character’s inner thoughts (through prayer) or perhaps there’ll be a lot more confiding in trusted henchmen.
In any case, the absence of that deep point of view will be a significant change between the books and the show, so even though the intent is to be faithful, some things have got to change. Please let there be no voice overs for thoughts. It never works. So the show has to be different in that very significant way than the books, and the purists may scream at the heavens that it is so.
I enjoy True Blood, and I have no shame, I even watch the Vampire Diaries.
c0venant
Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
Can’t see The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant on screen. I don’t know many women who read it who got past the rape, and the giants would be a constant CGI budget blowout, as would the Ur-Viles and Waynhim if done correctly. Also, TV is so much more international now, how would a network get past the way the cultures in the series are so dirivitively Indian (and I don’t mean native American).
Is there any BBC involvement in this show? I hope not, they totally screwed Rome when they pulled the budget pin. BBC are good at starting promising properties, greenlighting short seasons of 6 or 7 episodes and then nothing. Ultraviolet is one of the best Vampire series ever imo, and yet it didn’t get to a second season. I watched it again recently – and was amused to see Stephen Moyer vamping away (I assume for the first time) – but fascinated to see Idris Elba there. Seems more than one of the leads in the Wire was a Brit. If they did Ultraviolet again now, it would have much better legs than it did in 1998, and it’s still unique in its moral ambiguity, tone and vision despite the plethora of Vampire properties that have been on the market since. Given that Mr Elba is a Brit, can there be a role for him in GoT?? How sweet that would be.
FlayedandDisplayedQuote Reply
Well, for a series based on “poorly written romance twaddle with fantastical creatures,” TB has generated almost 200 posts in less than 48 hours here, so the humble author who created virtually every character that fueled the great genius that is Alan Ball must have done something right. After all, her most recent contract was for seven figures for l00,000 words and four film companies made offers for the film rights when Harris was entertaining Ball’s pitch. Dissing her is kind of like saying Miss America was lucky to be chosen by her eventual suitor. But, whatever.
I don’t think anyone is arguing that GRRM’s material needed any help to get to film, least of all me. I’m as happy as everyone else is with D&D and just hope to god they can deliver the goods.
DH87Quote Reply
DH87,
Aw, come one DH87, the comment was so clearly inflammatory, how could ya’ go for the bait? ;P
Steve BQuote Reply
Avalanche3319,
I did see Boardwalk and no GOT trailer. Boardwalk was pretty good. HBO is good at creating the look and feel of the period. I was not greatly impressed, but hoping it will grow on me. I am interested in the era of the 1920′s, my mother was born in 1917 in Long Branch NJ., so it was kind of like looking back at a time and place where I’ve seen old photos and heard many stories. what I am saying is that I was predisposed to liking it but the gangster thing has been done so much that it’s hard to come up with something fresh.
OldGranQuote Reply
Steve B,
Oh, I was using Clanglee’s trollish words, I thought, to respond to Mjolnar—who do you feel was the inflamer? No matter—Harris doesn’t need me to defend her—she is laughing all the way to the bank. I hope Bantam is doing as well by GRRM.
DH87Quote Reply
In Canada they played the GOT teaser again, before Boardwalk Empire tonight. They’ve also been repeatedly playing the first teaser for the last couple of months.
LexQuote Reply
Steve B,
…If I HAD risen to the bait, I might not have resisted the urge to say that, as tacky and low-brow as Harris might be and as exalted as GRRM might be, Harris hasn’t as yet been reduced to hawking figurines on her website. But I was tempted.
DH87Quote Reply
Can the mildly perverse bosom hugging romantics who read CH get along with the basement dwelling DMs who look wistfully at the figurines on GRRMs website? Will they be able to sit side by side on the couch and watch Game of Thrones? Burning questions.
FlayedandDisplayedQuote Reply
Yeah, they showed it both before and after in Canada (the 22 second one). But I have still yet to see the new trailer and behind the scenes stuff on TV here, I had to go to the internet for that. Which is kind of weird marketing, where you have a new trailer to advertise a show but you don’t air it?
Anyways I agree with what others have said; we’ll probably get a new trailer on the season finally of Boardwalk Empire and not before than.
Oh, I thought Boardwalk was great by the way! :D I didn’t like it as much as Rome, but I like the first episode more that I did Deadwood’s or True blood.
GrinbombQuote Reply
This is a very interesting discussion. I have not seen TB, I tried, but I’m just not into vampires and black magic and voodoo, etc. Strangely enough I can read “high fantasy” (‘s long s not too high — say, Eddings or Eriksson or some of Feist works to name a few of the more popular high fantasy series out there — to much “over the top” magic for my taste). Still, I have read many, many books that eventually made it to the screen on some way or another. And, I must say, that the ones I enjoy the most were the ones that brought a new element into the story.
Sometimes these elements are needed for the book to translate to the screen. A typical example of this is where characters spend a horribly long amount of time in their own heads on the books. Internal conflicts, specially the ones that border into insanity are tremendously hard to do well on the screen. And the most widely accepted method is to introduce a new character to help deal with this. A notable exception to this rule was Gollum, though they did use Sam to alleviate some of the most dramatic aspects of his (Gollum’s) internal conflicts.
But the most interesting changes are for me the ones that some writers bring to attract bigger audiences or because “they thought” it would work better this or that way. The LotR had a few, Charlie and the choc factory had many, but a classic for me to represent this is a “Christmas Carol”. I think that particular book has been made to movies, toons, series, mini-series, etc. Even Barbie did a version (I have a small daughter….) of it not too long ago. And it is always interesting to see how the writer will change the story/characters on it to bent it to its target audience.
I for one, want small changes, I look forward to them. More, I demand them! I read the books, I re-read them so man times I know some pages by heart. I have play them already on my head millions of times, I’m sure :) I want the series to give me smthing new, something I did not see coming, while staying true to the books (staying true its different from getting it exactly as it is or it is supposed to be). Besides, we all read the books, but that does not mean we all read them on the same way. A minor plot for me might be a favourite side story for another or vice versa. My point is: Stories are meant to be told, re-told and sung. Through history and again. And a good story teller can tell a story a hundred ways, and still tell it right. I want my story told right, not re-told exactly. My meaning anyway.
Richard StraubQuote Reply
I’m not sure which trailer they showed tonight, just that they showed one (my friend saw it, but couldn’t remember which trailer it was).
I just watched Boardwalk Empire, and I gotta say I was very impressed. Top quality in every department, and I was very quickly drawn in. I often find that an HBO show takes about 3 or 4 episodes to really hook me, but I thought tonight’s first episode was excellent and will definitely keep watching.
LexQuote Reply
Ultravialot was nothing do do with the BBC. It was produced by an independant Production company for Channel 4.
As to it only lasting one series that was because creator Joe Ahearne only wanted to make one series.
The film rights to the Chronicles of TC were bought up a few years back (in the wake of LotR when many other Fantasy books were too). Since nothing has been heard since I’m guessing the project never got any further.
MormegilQuote Reply
Just to make clear: BBC is not involved with financing the GoT project. There were ideas, plans, and possibly talks about a similar deal they had for Rome, but that didn’t come to fruition.
Hear Me RoarQuote Reply
I must say I find it odd that some people seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of an eclectic taste (of course there have also been a lot of verys insightful comments here!). I think many viewers can appreciate different shows even if they have no thematic or stylistic overlap.
For example, among my favourite series are The Wire, Lost, Spaced, Mad Men, BSG, Friday Night Lights, Freaks and Geeks, Gilmore Girls, Party Down and the West Wing. I also enjoy True Blood and am sure that I will like GoT.
Quality can come in many forms :)
burthQuote Reply
Thanks Mormegil, my bad. I thought channel 4 meant BBC 4 – actually I thought all TV in Britain was government controlled. Too much 1984 and V for Vendetta perhaps.
FlayedandDisplayedQuote Reply
I am trying to register at the HBO site so I can talk nais about GoT but as I live in Norway I can not register there…. :( So I have to fin an another way to spam their forums :p
theGodfarmerQuote Reply
All they ask for is a Zip Code, pick one at random and you can register no problem.
Just done it now.
MormegilQuote Reply
Mormegil,
Tnx for the tip! Will try that now :)
theGodfarmerQuote Reply
very true. except that two of those forms of “quality” aren’t Gilmore Girls or Friday Night Lights (unless you happen to be a 12 year old girl).
everybody has guilty pleasures but personal lapses in taste and discernment shouldn’t be mistaken for quality. :)
Who Is Jacopo Belbo?Quote Reply
This is true for my kids and Harry Potter – they don’t even want to go see the next couple of films cos the last one (HP and the Half-Blood Prince) left out sooo much of the book and so many of their favourite parts. As they say – if you haven’t read the HP books, the films are fine, if you have – it just annoys the hell out of you to watch an incomplete (to them) product. LOTR was so big that there was no way all of it would be in the films, but I know friends who were very disappointed with the end results. Like you say – all adaptations are just that – and GOT will not be, and CAN not be, totally faithful to the books.
silverjaimeQuote Reply
i really did enjoy that Ultraviolet series (not to be confused with Ultraviolet the movie which sucked donkey balls). there was also Jekyll which i thought was good. and while Neverwhere wasn’t the best thing ever done it was still a fairly good rendition of Gaiman’s book.
i try my best to keep up with any British tv productions of this sort (in the US it is pretty hard) but i am sure i have missed some good ones. for some weird reason the UK seems more open to such “fantasy” or “sci-fi” shows being mainstream and acceptable. i mean Doctor Who is one of the most popular TV shows in the history of the UK and in the US it is some uber-nerd cult phenomena. i wonder what accounts for this sort of difference.
oh. and good news UK we are going to ruin two more of your excellent TV programmes with “American Remake Versions” in Being Human and Torchwood set to be redone for US TV very soon. next thing you know we’ll be stealing and bastardizing Misfits too.
Who Is Jacopo Belbo?Quote Reply
silverjaime,
What is worse, with some of HP films, you can’t really make sense out of them without having read the books. This means it’s a bad adaptation as such, end of story (but even good ones need to cut subplots). Really unfortunate.
Hear Me RoarQuote Reply
I just want to point out that HBO has made it pretty clear that they are monitoring all of the fan sites fairly closely and not just their own boards when it comes to gauging fan interest. Speaking for myself, I’ve had discussions with HBO marketing and media relations, even members of the cast and crew, and all of them have expressed how they’ve noticed and appreciated the tremendous fan response.
I agree with you that it would probably be a good idea to help spread the word and build buzz on HBO’s own board. But I don’t think that the success of the show depends on all the fans all of a sudden congregating over there as opposed to here or at Westeros or Tower of the Hand.
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
I couldn’t stand the Gilmore Girls, but I’ve recently crammed 4 seasons of Friday Night Lights. Loved it. Go Lions. My lapse in personal judgement isn’t watching the show, it’s getting offended at needling on these boards…
FlayedandDisplayedQuote Reply
I think the common denominator among all the shows discussed here is that they contain strong characters. <- Hey a little web font humour there ;)
Like others I have an eclectic list of favourite shows House, Nurse Jackie, BSG, Being Human, True Blood (though I'm waning), Dexter, Sopranos, Deadwood, there's more but you get the point. The strong characters help move the story along. Obviously you need a good story but in cases like House etc, I'd say it's the character that has kept the series going or it would have frizzled out ages ago.
Anyway just adding my tuppence.
Jackie MacPhersonQuote Reply
The Neverwhere TV series was on before the Book was published (just), Gaiman wrote the TV series and then put the stuff it was impossible to do on TV at the time into the book which came out while the series was airing.
Speaking of Gaiman he’s written a script for the next series of Doctor Who.
Not sure I totally agree with the idea that SciFi/Fantasy is more mainstream in the UK. Most of the stuff that is on the main channels is aimed towards a children/family audience (Merlin, Primeval, Robin Hood, Doctor Who, demons) rather than the adult audience that SciFi/Fantasy is aimed at in the U.S.
Yes you have Being Human but that airs on a digital channe (BBc3) and gets about a million viewers. Torchwood Series 3 did air in Primetime on BBC1 and got 5 million viewers but it too started off on BBC3.
The upcoming Starz/BBC Torchwood series isn’t a remake though it’s a continuation of the three series that the BBC made by themselves just set a few years later and on a more international scale than Cardiff.
MormegilQuote Reply
remake, bastardization, spin off … if an American channel is involved with it chances are it will suck. it was unspecific language tho on my part. at least they are keeping Jack.
i have heard that BBC is doing a TV version of Adam’s Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency soon (same writer as Misfits) so that should be good. haven’t heard about anything else new tho.
Who Is Jacopo Belbo?Quote Reply
I don’t think the cultures would be such a big deal – most series have some sort of cultural backbone, this wouldn’t be any different. As for the CGI involved, after having watched the clip on what they do for John Adams, somehow I don’t think the giants would be too bad – it’s only when they’re in scene with normal sized people that it would be an issue (okay, that’s a fair amount, but still). The urviles and waynhim are not seen all that much except in a few parts. The biggest issues as far as that goes would be from the battle scenes during the illearth war, etc. Personally, I think The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant would be an awesome series for HBO to take on – they’d be perfect for it, and I think it would go over well. Yes, the rape at the beginning would turn some people off, but that can be managed fairly well, i’d imagine. It has to happen as it’s such a central part of who Covenant is and who he becomes, but it doesn’t have to be overly graphic in presentation – just so long as the idea behind it is firmly portrayed.
I would love to see it done… And Thank God for Stephen Donaldson, who gave us a schedule as to the release of books, and has held true to it (at least as closely as possible, considering the nature of writing and creation). The next (and next to the last) book hits the stores in 29 days (countdown from his site at http://stephenrdonaldson.com/ ). I’ve got the series, and will be there on the 19th of October to pick up this one – I’m psyched to get the next installment of this awesome series….
(side note – Donaldson is also quite forthcoming with answering questions – of any sort – in his Gradual Interview, which can be found at http://stephenrdonaldson.com/fromtheauthor/gi.php, and is quite interesting to read)…
Mickey DQuote Reply
Jackie MacPherson,
Well put.
Some of the series I myself watch arent always that good but the story is almost always driven forward by some charismatic character.
Just to name a few:
The Shield- Vic Mackey, Shane Vendrell and Holland Wagenbach
The Wire- James McNulty and Omar Little
Rome- Lucius Vorenus and Titus Pullo
True Blood- Lafayette Reynolds and Eric Northman
Dexter- Dexter Morgan and Angel Batista
Fringe- Walter Bishop
House MD- Gregory House and James Wilson
Desperate Housewives- Gabrielle Solis and Carlos Solis
Friday Night Lights- Eric Taylor and Tim Riggns
Californication- Hank Moody and Charlie Runckle
Sons of Anarchy- Alex Trager and Piney Winston
Justified- Raylan Givens and Boyd Crowder
Battlestar Galactica- William Adama and Saul Tigh
There are many more but these are the characters Ive come to love.
Sometimes separately but often in a dynamic relationship with other characters in the show.
Dr House and Dr Wilson is one example and Lucius ad Titus is another.
They always make us smile.
The story is important but more so is the actors capability of playing his part, charisma and how well dialogue and character is scripted.
take away one or more of these characters and I would probarly loose interest in the show.
Some shows never succeeded in catching my interest because of the lack of charismatic figureheads.
Among these Caprica, Pillars of the Earth and V can be mentioned.
Another thing that can happen is when the actor who in your opinion carry the show upon his or her shoulders looses his mojo.
For me this happened with Lie to Me where Tim Roth started to become a parody of himself and overacted somewhere in the middle of season one.
Most of the mainstream shows such as CSI, NCIS fail in having charismatic figureheads. They half-ass it and turn to the case and the gimmics. Some succeed like in my eyes, Desperate Housewives. The story suck but some of the characters and well crafted and enjoyable.
I really hope that AGoT manages to pull this off and my bet is 99 to 1 that they will. Mostly beacuse of the brilliant actors and the books themselfes which are character based and driven forward by dynamic relationships and dialogue. Everything I love when it comes to both the small and the big screen.
c0venantQuote Reply
c0venant,
And on a side note.
I am very aware of that all my iconic characters are male.
Perhaps this is because I am male and therefore indentify with the character and their relationship to women, friends and parents.
Perhaps it is in the production. There are very few strong females allowed in media apart from good looks.
Or perhaps Im just somewhat of an ass.
My bet is on all three.
c0venantQuote Reply
Mickey D,
I love SD’s books as much as GRRM’s but I still have a big problem seeing it adapt to any screen no matter how big the budget.
In SD’s universe there are just to many weird creatures and no matter how well made they were it would probarly just become unbelievable silly.
You might say that LoTR made it on the screen in spite of talking trees and averything.
That is true, but they also cut Tom Bombadill for a reason.
Not to forget that Tolkien founded modern fantasy and made orcs and elfes a part of our culture.
If Im proven wrong no one is happier that I. Just look at my nickname.
c0venantQuote Reply
c0venant,
well – one can hope…
and i do – fervently. unfortunately, the last people that bought the film rights to tcotc let them expire without using them. hopefully someone else will pick them up and go with it – whether HBO or someone else – i’d still love to see it done…
Mickey DQuote Reply
Mickey D,
Well AGoT can change many things.
BSG gave new life to scifi.
TB gave new life to the supernatural. Thats why The Walking Dead about zombies is soon to premiere.
What fantasy have we seen on the small sceen so far? Xena, Hercules, LotS, Merlin….its all a pile of crap.
AGoT can bring life to a dead genre and show that also fantasy can be for adults.
I mean what better time than now when we in generation X with our Marvel comics and PS3′s are in our mid 30′s?
We are adults in many ways but different from our parents we never really completely grew up. We may be emotionally mature but we still wanna play.
We want adult scifi, adult supernatural and adult fantasy. Im not talking adult as in sex, but in psychology and views.
I am hoping AGoT sets a new standard and opens up for future endevours.
c0venantQuote Reply
You know, I’ve never gotten all the attitude about Martin selling figurines. I mean, clearly he doesn’t act like he thinks he’s ” stooping” to selling them. Rather, he seems to genuinely love the figurines. Isit an uncommon habit? Yeah. But t
Steve BQuote Reply
theGodfarmer,
Real
Virkelig? Registrerte meg der jeg, og jeg bor i Norge. Ikke at jeg har noen konkrete tips til deg, men. Prøv igjen?
sjweningsQuote Reply
FlayedandDisplayed,
Give the GRRM dudes a loincloth and the Harris babes a sword of Valyrian steel and let them grope each other on the couches of America during both shows.
Or they can compromise: there are TB figurines available, but Harris doesn’t sell them; HBO does. On its website. Problem solved.
DH87Quote Reply
Ser at du alt har fått hjelp. Glem det.
sjweningsQuote Reply
Winter Is Coming,
I agree absolutely. I did not mean to imply an either/or in terms of participation. HBO may very well be reaching out to non-HBO TB sites, but TB sites are not book-based as is winter-is-coming.net. Harris has absolutely prohibited any discussion of TB on her own boards, where she is an active participant, and funnels all “TB bookies” to HBO. That’s one reason why things roil over there. There is nothing so sophisticated (book & show) as this site for Harris that I’m aware of.
The one important option the HBO board participants have available at the end of each season is a detailed e-questionaire (how you heard about the show, what specifically you liked/disliked, what else you watch). My sense is that is where the HBO bigwig data may be drawn from. You might ask if HBO plans to let you poll the folks here in the same way.
DH87Quote Reply
Steve B,
actually figurines and miniatures have been a hobby of GRRM’s sense way before he started writing ASOIAF
ogbebabaQuote Reply
Steve B,
I’m with GRRM. I love my figurines, too! But, then, I comb the mane of My Little Pony every day and wear sparkly barrettes in my hair.
DH87Quote Reply
DH87,
That’s pretty much how I feel about TB, too. I don’t know if I’m going to give AB and TB another chance when season 4 rolls around. Fool me twice and all…
Besides that, my boyfriend will probably want to strangle me if I keep going “That didn’t happen in the books!” since he hasn’t read them. He doesn’t need to since I tell him exactly what is different, lol!
bastetQuote Reply
bastet,
I plan to continue to holler at the TV during TB Season 4 since I find it a good way to get rid of a lot of generalized frustration and rage. Zoloft is also an option.
DH87Quote Reply
Steve B,
As long as GRRM doesn’t deign to put Robb and Jon on Burger King glasses or license Children of the Forest Happy Meal toys, I’m okay with AGOT figurines. :) The unscrupulous could have a field day marketing this down to the kids. RockEm SockEm Mountain versus the Hound! Cersei fashion dolls! Dany and Silver My Little Pony set! Somehow, I don’t think he’d stoop so low… ;)
persephone88Quote Reply
That first Dany and Silver My Little Pony set is mine.
DH87Quote Reply
I just started a massive wave of posts on HBO.com using the Winter-is-coming snowflake as my avatar pic. I hope others do the same to really show HBO that we mean business and that there are a lot of us out there!!!
Zafri MollonQuote Reply
DH87,
I read both histories.
True Blood is based on weak books in my opinion. I read them, but stopped in the ninth, they are fun, but do not have a strong story.
The show, to me, was better in the first season, I hated the second and dropped in the middle of the third. I think AB could do something better. The changes in relation to the book series are only making increasingly bad.
Game of Thrones is perfectlybased and doesn’t require any change to make the story better.
So I think GOT is gonna be better. any way.
But I would love and cry seeing Sookie and Eric together as in the books!
LidianyQuote Reply
DH87,
Wow touched a nerve there. . .I’m sorry. . .I didn’t know I would hurt any feelings by expressing my opinion. Trollish?. . . .Inflamitory? I guess if you are a huge fan of Harris you could perceive it as such. But since I am not on a True Blood/Charlene Harris fan site right now. . .I don’t see how I am being a troll by stating my opinion of Harris. I’m sorry. I guess I should have prefaced with a disclaimer of how my opinion is mine own and in no way represents the opinions of ASOI&F fans as a whole.
ClangleeQuote Reply
FlayedandDisplayed,
Just a lurker here – but I have to jump in and refute the ‘no women’ and Thomas Covenant series. I’m female and adored those books when they came out – eagerly waited for the next one, etc, etc. Recently repurchased (and finding them was a challenge!) and reread them, as a matter of fact.
There is more that is harsh and ugly in GRRM’s series – but women are hardly running from it. Please don’t paint with such a broad brush.
As far as Game of Thrones goes – I’m looking forward to it, but believe that Martin’s penchant for offing major characters is going to turn off a lot of people, simply because most people get invested in those characters over the course of a season. They’re going to have to telegraph Ned’s demise pretty clearly early on – or it will leave a lot of folks unwilling to jump into season two. That character is the only clear cut ‘good guy’ protagonist in the bunch and in the darkness of the plot, people will gravitate toward him. If they don’t have at least an inkling of what may happen they’ll be left with a very bad taste in their mouths. I know I almost didn’t bother reading the rest of the books – and that may be a ‘girl thing’ *wink* – but there will be plenty of women watching, as well as many who are not familiar with the series. It takes time to warm up to the story (and a note pad to keep track of the cast of thousands) – the producers of this series have their work cut out for them.
ElizaQuote Reply
More than any other scifi or fantasy series I’ve ever seen, ASOIAF draws women in. GRRM doesn’t relegate women to background or one-note roles, even though the females do have the traditional role expectation of wife, daughter, etc. But the women characters grow beyond that and their experiences in the story aren’t dictated as merely reactions to their love interest’s needs. They don’t just react, they act.
So I think women will tune in, as well as the men.
SteveThePirate2Quote Reply
That actually describes my wife and myself. ;) Although I love True Blood the series. . .well. . .this last season was kinda weak. But after reading the first book (which my wife adores) I came quickly to the conclusion that it is best to stick to just the show. And my wife in the meantime has read Game and is halfway through Clash and is actually quite excited about the show. So the two groups should get along famously. . . .for the most part.
ClangleeQuote Reply
Clanglee,
Apology accepted. No, no need to issue a disclaimer. I’m thin-skinned because yours is probably the 300th post I’ve responded to in defense of CH (not that she needs it—she received the Inkpot Award for Achievement in Science Fiction/Fantasy at ComicCon in July). She doesn’t pretend to be Tolstoy or Shakespeare. She admits to plenty of flaws— they are there for all to see. One book of every seven sold in the country is by Harris; another one of those seven by Stephenie Meyer, the much mocked Twilight author. In the book business, these folks are goddesses, and it does piss me off that these women writing for primarily female audiences are dismissed in a way that male “pulp” authors often aren’t. So maybe that’s my problem.
But no worries: if we’re lucky, we will soon find ourselves reading criticism of GRRM/AGOT that will stand our collective hair on end in quantities we’ve never envisioned. That’s what success is.
DH87Quote Reply
DH87,
Oh I can understand that. For me it’s a style and content thing I guess. Harris writes very very very much from the woman’s perspective. . . not even just that but Sookie just comes off as a particularly shallow woman. And then the books are, essentially, at their core. . .romance novels. Which is an immediate turn off for me.
I was actually disappointed. I wanted to like the books. I watched the first season of the show and loved it, and then my wife got very heavily into the books. So I read the first one, and came away with the opinion that the books are weakly written romance novels, but the core plot was worth working with. And the show is proof of that. . .it took the premise of the books and made something that crosses that “romance novel” barrier. Something. . .if you will forgive me. . .surprisingly watchable considering the shallowness of the series (IMO).
ClangleeQuote Reply
DH87,
But really. . .sorry for coming off as an ass. When I don’t like something I usually don’t hold back from ripping on it. Didn’t mean to offend.
ClangleeQuote Reply
I find the argument that because something is extremely popular it is (or should be) above criticism to be very weak.
GaRQuote Reply
Clanglee,
Again, no worries. What is amusing sometimes for those who value continuity is that, for all of her supposedly sloppy story telling, over 10+ books CH does create a consistent, “believable” world that the genius Alan Ball hasn’t been able to live up to. For example, the third season of TB hinged on a special quality of the heroine’s blood that gave day-walking power to the vampire community, yet this quality was not present in identical situations in Season 1 since The Genius hadn’t decided to factor it in to the plot line then. The heroine’s telepathy comes into play in TB when it is convenient for The Genius, then mysteriously disappears for 6 episodes in Season 3 (involving the same characters) because it better suits The Genius’s non-CH plot line. Every one of these ludicrous gaffs have come about via deviations from the CH story line. I guess The Genius assumes we have amnesia, not just a one of the main characters. But that’s show biz.
CH does have male readers/fans. All romance novels do. I write women’s commercial fiction and circulate my manuscripts to 12 trusted readers (all women) in installments that they read online. Five of their husbands read over their shoulders, but since they are not sitting down at the computer, the gentlemen feel that doesn’t technically qualify as “reading.” Shall I count them as my readers or not? Jury’s out.
DH87Quote Reply
Oh, one correction: CH is not technically a romance novelist. A romance has a love story as its central focus and an ending both satisfying and optimistic. None of the Stackhouse books qualifies under those guidelines.
DH87Quote Reply
DH87,
I’ve gotten most of my ranting and raving out of my system. That doesn’t mean that I can’t tell you exactly what I think is wrong with, TB though. I’m here for you if you need more ideas, lol!
bastetQuote Reply
bastet,
Thanks! I moved over here to try to disengage from the inferno of hatred, and first thing I find is a posting on my favorite topic. I’m trying to move on, like the psycho ex. I did get great satisfaction in filling out my HBO viewer survey though. If I weren’t thoroughly convinced that D&D plan to do a complete 180 from AB, I’d be into some heavy drinking right now, and it’s 9:30 AM.
DH87Quote Reply
Zafri Mollon,
Do you know http://twibbon.com/
I think we can start a fan campaign !
LidianyCSQuote Reply
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