HBO execs on Thrones: "excited by the drama, not by the genre"

wouldn’t easter a good premier date? April 24 is the second quarter, but i have no idea how they handle this in the US, our stations here put their biggest movies on these kind of dates.

Just to make things a bit clearer (didn’t know that either): the fiscal year starts in October (US, as least), so second quarter is January through March. That doesn’t mean GoT couldn’t air a bit later, but them still sticking to the original plans is a good sign.

Sigh… it’s really sad to see that people are STILL confusing Sci-Fi with Fantasy. They are two distinct genres, so why can’t people seem to understand the difference? This has bothered me for years (e.g. when fantasy books or DVDs are in the “Sci-Fi” section in stores).

Lex, technically you are correct, but there is a lot of crossover between the two genres and their fanbases. And sci-fi, the way they are using it, is synonymous with speculative fiction.

Really what needs to happen, is publishers and book stores need to get together and agree to lump fantasy, sci-fi, horror, etc. into a speculative fiction genre. Or spec-fi.

Winter Is Coming,

Or GRRM’s personal favourite term for all those genres, “weird stuff”. :)

Here’s my random pondering on this:

I hope HBO buys some major ad time during big events say Super Bowl or whatever and get the excitement building far beyond the regular ‘fan base’ akin to what ABC did with LOST. probably not but a girl can wish :) Then, if the show does start airing at the end of March/early April they could easily run straight new episodes all the way to hit that all important May sweeps for a big win. Cynical perhaps to think of it in those terms, but I think GoT has the potential to be a huge hit ratings wise all over and Im sure that’s something thats been factored in. Regardless, can not wait to see GoT, the sooner the better ! :)

It’s great to see the HBO execs putting the right context on the series. Understanding how best to position, brand, and market the show will be a big part of the series ability to be successful–and that all starts with “getting it” at the executive level, which ML and RP appear to.

It also sounds like HBO has a firm grasp on the challenges that exist with genre bias and a rabid fan base. To which end I believe HBO continues to make all the right moves in how they talk about and execute on the project.

furrever,

I agree. It was very encouraging to see the big cheeses mention GRRM in addition to “creator” Benioff. Not to beat the tiresome TB/GOT comparisons to death (I already have) but TB was never discussed as anything but an Alan Ball project by the HBO guys in the run up to the TB launch, because the author of the books was not involved. In hindsight, that should have been a warning to book fanatics not to expect what most were expecting. We know D&D have touted GRRM’s involvement and GRRM has been publicly enthusiastic, so to hear the HBO suits at this level reference him is good. Very good.

Lord Ned’s Head,

Your endorsement might tempt me to take a third look, but I think HBO has a potential problem. If it is as good as you say, they will coast through the rest of the season pulling the numbers they have been pulling, but the numbers are not building (they have plateaued for three weeks) and there is no fan buzz whatsoever, anywhere, it seems. Part of the problem is the huge juggernaut that is Sunday night football. It is pulling its best numbers in the history of the New World, even when the game is terrible, as it apparently was last night. The open ended timeframe of the game is causing bleed-in to the repeat of BE at 11 PM on the EC, apparently, as well. It will be interesting to see if HBO moves S2 of BE off fall Sunday nights next year. One thing is clear: we don’t want GOT anywhere near Sept.-Nov. Sundays.

So many times film making tends to be a group project that finds its genesis out of some producer’s ideas. Too often these result in films without a solid, thought through story arc or interesting characters with scenes padded with empty action scenes just to fill in the blanks.
Perhaps this will hit home the message that writers and stories are where exciting drama really starts and that (with some exceptions of course) nothing beats a great story and well-thought out characters. Too bad we don’t see more of that in Hollywood.

Lex,

Don’t worry too much about it, Lex. It’s just a holdover from the 60′s and 70′s and even into the 80′s when science fiction and fantasy were lumped together by the book publishers and also the booksellers. The sci-fi section was where one found the fantasy titles too. I don’t know how old these HBO execs are, but if they’re in their 50′s like me then they would have been exposed to that sort of thinking. Only the die hard fans of sci-fi and fantasy, like myself, made the distinction back then.

Langkard,

And just as a side note, many who are old enough might remember the furor over Ursula K. LeGuin refusing to accept the moniker of sci-fi or fantasy author and instead insisting that she wrote only “speculative fiction” and was thus a mainstream writer. The way it was done rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way, since it seemed she was dismissing the genres and the fans who bought her works. Kurt Vonnegut said similar things, as did Harlan Ellison.

Great to know, that the execs put so much emphasis on the storytelling and characters.

The more I think about it the more I start to worry though, how the show will be recieved by people, who have never read the books before. The huge cast and all these different plotlines which are not obviously correlated with each other will get pretty confusing for people experiencing the story for the first time.

I’m glad they’re so enthusiastic and talking up what’s sure to be an incredible series! BUT… it feels to me that people are always ‘apologetic’ for anything that’s genre. As in “sure it’s FANTASY/SCI-FI, but it’s still /good/ (in spite of that)’. Even GRRM himself talks that way sometimes!

Sometimes I wish more producers, actors, etc involved in shows that aren’t set in ‘real times’ or ‘real places’ would own it and be proud of it FOR the genre, not in spite of it. I hear it over and over again – ‘”I had my doubts about this genre/I wasn’t sold on sci-fi/I know it’s fantasy BUT people will like it…” It just bugs me. IMHO, fantastic journeys are something to be PROUD of – hard to pull off, but not ‘weird’ or exclusively ‘fringe’ or shameful because they are uninhibited and imaginative. You never hear producers say “I know it’s just a /reality/ show, but really it’s GOOD, and there isn’t that much /reality/ in it at all actually!” (as opposed to how fantasy/magic/sci-fi aspects of a show are always apologized for/minimized by promoters)

Usually the key players come around though :) (eg: Patrick Stewart, a classically-trained actor, who felt that Star Trek TNG was kinda beneath him – at least in the beginning). And we are lucky to have a load of actors who are embracing the show and the genre, and sharing their enthusiasm with us.

Anyhow, stop apologizing for fantasy, and LOVE it!

Hey, I love the drama, but I sure as hell love the genre too!

Hopefully BE will get all kinds of crazy emmy nods and that will help tp make the show more popular overall. I’d hate like hell for this show to go away because of a small audience.

reedgirl,

I second this.

I recall being very pissed off when The Fellowship of the Ring came out on video, because when I looked at the package in the store it said “action” on the side where they write the genre, and it was in the action movie section as opposed to the sci-fi fantasy section. It’s like the best of the genre are always made to seem like they are somehow not sci-fi/fantasy. I can’t count how many times I’ve read blurbs on the back of critically acclaimed science fiction novels to see quotes like, “calling it science fiction doesn’t do it justice,” and “this is not a work of fantasy; it belongs on the shelves with literary fiction.” Ugh. :/

I’m subscribing to HBO as soon as this series airs. I love the novels, and the production looks top notch. SO EXCITED!

Are we allowed to post links without our comment being held for moderation? I’ll just say that Nikki Finke’s DeadlineHollywood column today has a few photos of our Khal Drogo as Conan the Barbarian…and there’s a lot of similarity to these production shots of Conan in the costumery we saw from the GOT costume designer Michele Clapton last week….

Growing up in the 60′s and 70′s, I could just head to the “science fiction” section and indulge in all the wonderful literature. It was a great time for a fan. DAW books started putting out those paperbacks with the yellow spines which almost always guaranteed a good read.

Hollywood never seems to get how much amazing character and story-driven literature can be found in the fantasy and science fiction genres. Even when they mine some of the geniuses of using sci-fi to explore possibilities, like Philip K. Dick, they don’t quite get that it’s the genre itself which allows for such amazing expressions of the human condition – even if it is sometimes not so human.

I like that HBO does seem to get it. David and Dan certainly do. When (not if) ASOIAF takes off for HBO, maybe more people in the industry will realize that they’ve been neglecting a very fertile source for great stories.

The whole controversy of “SF” vs. “sci-fi” is so odd (and yes, I’ve witnessed a few older readers of the genre freak out when the wrong term has been used in their presence).

Living in the Bay Area “SF” always equates to “San Francisco” to me (and “SF Literature” means Dashiell Hammett or Dave Eggers to a lot of readers!). Kind of reminds me of the whole “San Francisco” vs. “Frisco” naming controversy, in a way.

Sorry, off topic.

Interesting, if your prediction is true, I would assume that Game of Thrones would lead up to the Fourth Season of True Blood. Works for me. Also do you think we will get a new trailer when the Season Finale of BoardWalk Empire starts? And yes Boardwalk Empire is a masterpiece of Television.

Spacesocks: Langkard,
As far as I can tell, Le Guin has never rejected the “fantasy” or “science fiction” labels. It’s Margaret Atwood who asked for her, um, SF novels to be called “speculative fiction,” because “there are no talking squid” in them.Le Guin actually wrote a pretty funny satire piece about people who insist on making that distinction: http://www.ursulakleguin.com/Note-ChabonAndGenre.html    

LeGuin’s attitude has mellowed considerably over the years. Atwood, while a great writer, is just a bigoted idiot when it comes to science fiction. Compared to Atwood, LeGuin is decidedly pro-sci-fi. I don’t think it can be found on the internet, but I distinctly recall LeGuin coming down on the side of Ellison when the issue of science fiction versus mainstream literature first gained steam in the 70′s.

Interestingly, in reply to Adam Whitehead, it was Heinlein who is also credited with the usage of “speculative fiction” as a term for what was being written. I think it was at that point that Harlan Ellison jumped in and started the argument about whether his works and works like LeGuin’s should be called speculative fiction instead of sci-fi. Either way, it’s all SF now and Ellison has to live with it, when SF is defined as science fiction instead of speculative fiction. :)

This struck me as well: (comments after the break)

Lex: Sigh… it’s really sad to see that people are STILL confusing Sci-Fi with Fantasy. They are two distinct genres, so why can’t people seem to understand the difference? This has bothered me for years (e.g. when fantasy books or DVDs are in the “Sci-Fi” section in stores).

Sci-fi is a sub genre of fantasy, or so I have always thought. There is no speculative science in this particular George Martin series. Seems stunning that the terminology could be confusing. However, despite completely NOT knowing even the most basic terms, they still like the show, or at least the do during a promotional interview.

It seems to me that when Hollywood or TV execs talk ‘fantasy’ they mean cheese – overacting, shouted spells, cheap or obvious effects and central characters that are children or teenagers with promise and powers. Game Of Thrones should dispel that by the end of the first episode. I don’t expect the dismissive and unforgiving public to lap it up on first airing – the eager fanbase will be all over that. The buzz will be enough to get them to watch the subsequent airings of that episode, assuming the ‘gate’ tweets (pronounced twits isn’t it?) don’t overwhelm the internet with their buts. Honestly if you like the show but something irks you, spend as much time on what you like as what you don’t. “it was good (3 words) but (3000)…”

While the series is no doubt fantasy, I think it is equal parts fantasy and period piece. It is loosely based on a period of history and many, many parts of the story are driven without ANY fantasy elements. Hopefully those that don’t enjoy fantasy will like the other parts of the show, and people that want fantasy will have enough to be satisfied.

And we know that anyone that likes terrific characters and an intriguing story will be satisfied ;-)

Winter Is Coming,

While the U.S. government operates on an October 1 – September 30 fiscal year, every company defines its fiscal year as it sees fit. As far as I have seen, it is quite common for companies to make their fiscal years match calendar years; it makes investor relations easier.