MGoT: Join the Dothraki horde
By Hear Me Roar on in Filming.

Bryan Cogman continues to share with us his diary entries from the shoot. This time he reports from Manikata on Malta, which is doubling as the village of the Lhazareen, the docile sheepherding people. According to our information, the scenes there were shot some time towards the end of October.

MANIKATA, Malta – Man, it’s hot today.  And the flies!  The flies are showing me no mercy.  What is it about me that attracts these creatures??  Today we’re in a small, picturesque farming village called Manikata, which has been transformed into the Village of the Lhazareen.  I’m here with the Dothraki horde; they’ve just raided the village and are looting it for spoils.  Typical Tuesday at ‘Game of Thrones’ really.

He goes on to note the curious fact that the lines in these scenes are almost entire in the Dothraki language, which was fully developed for the purpose of the show by David J. Peterson. Cogman provides a line spoken by Jason Momoa (Khal Drogo) to an insubordinate warrior:

Eyél várthasoe she ilekaán ríkhoya arrekaán vékha vósi yeroón vósma tolórro!

Hear Me Roar: Those who follow the details on the Dothraki language closely will have recognized the word tolorro which refer to bones, and appears in the place name Vaes Tolorro, the ruined ‘city of bones’ in the Red Lands desert (compared to Vaes Dothrak, the ‘city of the Dothraki’). We have so far caught a few glimpses of the Lhazareen village set in the videos. Here are three links to the relevant screencaps, courtesy of Ran at Westeros.org: Photo 1, Photo 2, Photo 3.


68 Comments

  1. Derek Sharp
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    I think a lot of the negative feelings toward the look of the Dothraki will be put to bed when we see the full effect of complete scenes in the first episode.

  2. Tusuri
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Well, well, well, scenes where they only speak dothraki? O_o Nice touch, though I suppose they’ll have to use subs for when they do.

  3. Mavis
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Do they plan to just use Subtitles for the viewer, or are they going to have one of the handmaids explaining to Dany what they are saying?

  4. Lori
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    All of the negativity surrounding the horses and the look of the Dothraki should be quelled with the final product. I for one am anxiously awaiting seeing it. I know that Jason Momoas was perfect for the role of Khal Drogo, to see him with Dany will be just amazing….with or without subtitles for the Dothraki language…

  5. Hear Me Roar
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    They used some subtitling for Boardwalk Empire. Works perfectly for us Europeans ;) j/k What do others think of it?

  6. alan777
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    This is all so damn awesome! I can not wait for this to hit TV. The detailing that they are putting into this show is beyond anything I have seen for a very very long time. The only two shows that can compare are The Tudors and Rome. If Game of Thrones is as good as both of those shows then life is going to be SWEET.

  7. Ingemar Svensson
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    They use subtitles for Eric Northmans swedish dialogue on True Blood as well. And those of us who hope to learn the language certainly hope they subtitle it because that will be the main way of getting translations for the language until a time when HBO hopefully decides to release an official dictionary.

  8. Hear Me Roar
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    Ingemar Svensson,

    Oh, but of course. I kind of forgot that because I understand Swedish :)
    The subtitles in BE were more memorable due to being yellow (not used to that) – were they yellow in TB as well? Anyway …

  9. Caedes
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Derek Sharp: I think a lot of the negative feelings toward the look of the Dothraki will be put to bed when we see the full effect of complete scenes in the first episode.    

    I hope you’re right. I finf the general look of the dothraki a little bit disappoint, Drogo aside. As someone said, they look the ragged, savage and unkempt way the westerosi think they are, instead of the proud, fierce warriors we as readers know.
    I can cope with the lack of hairbells (why then make the Lannister helmet look like one? trying to make amends?), and I certainly like the kohl on Drogo’s eyes. But why there are no painted vest? no horsehair leggins, none of the details GRRM wrote so carefully.

    Again, I sincerely hope you’re right, but I’ve got the feeling that this will one missed chance on the show.

  10. Johanna Schauerhofer
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    This sounds as if the Dothraki scenes are going to be absolutely epic, with Drogo barking some sort of Klingon-commands :D haha.

    But I’m also worried about the braids and bells. I’m curious what it’s going to actually look like in the show. Maybe I won’t be bothered so much by then… hm.

  11. mummer
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    I hope there aren’t any subtitles in the early episodes. Dany’s experience depends so much on not knowing who the hell these people are and why they do the things they do.

    Once she learns their language, subtitles would make sense– or they might go the route of “everyone’s speaking the same foreign language now and understanding each other, so we’ll just have it sound like English,” but then we wouldn’t get the same sense that Dany really has her feet in multiple worlds; her ability to talk to one person in Dothraki, another in the Common Tongue, and another in High Valyrian is an important part of who she becomes.

  12. Johanna Schauerhofer
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    mummer: I hope there aren’t any subtitles in the early episodes. Dany’s experience depends so much on not knowing who the hell these people are and why they do the things they do.    

    I agree – wouldn’t make sense to subtitle the scenes where noone’s supposed to know what’s going on anyway.

  13. Half Myrish
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think those who have expressed concern over the costuming choices made for the Dothraki are suddenly going to say, “Ah, it all makes sense now that the Dothraki can’t sew a finished seam. Oh, those rips in that random dangling bit of leather really add something, now that I see it on TV.”

    It’s fine if HBO didn”t want to copy GRRM’s clothing and wanted some fresh, new costume designs for the Dothraki. However, the look they ended up with is neither aesthetically pleasing, nor is it even remotely functional looking. This bothers me much more than the lack of bells or vests or leggings, etc. Not sure about the arakhs either. And messing up the look of an entire culture is more serious than just one bad costume (see Dany’s burlap halter top).

    I think the overall series will still be fantastic, but the Dothraki’s look has been a disappointment, especially compared to a lot of other fantastic costumes.

  14. Tusuri
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Johanna Schauerhofer: I agree – wouldn’t make sense to subtitle the scenes where noone’s supposed to know what’s going on anyway.  Quote  Reply

    Erm, aren’t subtitles supposed to be for the audience? I dont get where you’re going with that. Unless you’re saying that with a translator-type of character translating onscreen for Dany subtitles aren’t needed, but you use them once she knows how to speak it?

  15. Leah
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    Chalk me up for being Pro-Subtitles. You can still have them on screen and not have Dany know what the hell the Dothraki are talking about.

    It’s not like she’s reading them.

  16. JJtheCROW
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Half Myrish,

    What’s not functional about pants???

  17. Johanna Schauerhofer
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    Tusuri,

    you’re right, and I’m not especially against subtitles in Dany’s first scenes ;) . But I think it would add to the absolute foreignness and differentness she experiences when she enters Dothraki society.
    However, I think there’s someone translating it to her most of the time anyways…

  18. fake-o name-o
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Half Myrish: I don’t think those who have expressed concern over the costuming choices made for the Dothraki are suddenly going to say, “Ah, it all makes sense now that the Dothraki can’t sew a finished seam. Oh, those rips in that random dangling bit of leather really add something, now that I see it on TV.”It’s fine if HBO didn”t want to copy GRRM’s clothing and wanted some fresh, new costume designs for the Dothraki. However, the look they ended up with is neither aesthetically pleasing, nor is it even remotely functional looking. This bothers me much more than the lack of bells or vests or leggings, etc. Not sure about the arakhs either. And messing up the look of an entire culture is more serious than just one bad costume (see Dany’s burlap halter top).I think the overall series will still be fantastic, but the Dothraki’s look has been a disappointment, especially compared to a lot of other fantastic costumes.    

    Yeah, the Arakhs really bother me. They look so clumsy and awkward. How would you even draw it out of the scabbard with one hand? It just seems like a sabre or a katana would have been the obvious choice here, especially for horseback fighters.

  19. fake-o name-o
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Really, I am loving everything so far, I just have a few geeky nitpicks. Mostly about the costuming, and a bit of the dialogue. Overall I am really pleased with what we’ve seen

  20. The Darkstar
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    I think the look of the dothrakis (pauper skinny disheveled) is cleary do to the budget. The cost to get 25? 50? Persian looking, muscular men to play essentially, extra roles was probably a compromise to fit within the budget, not because of a different or better interpretation of the books.

  21. Half Myrish
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    JJtheCROW,

    What’s not functional about pants???

    Is that an honest question or a delibrate troll?

    What’s not functional looking is the random bits of leather and string that are added, I guess to make the costumes look more “barbaric”. Also the very loose/coarse weaves with unfinished edges and tears.

    Nothing to do with pants or no pants. I’m not the only one who’s noticed either, and not only on this board. See the comments on the high res pics of the Dothraki at Westeros.org.

  22. JJtheCROW
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    No troll intended.

  23. a different meg
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Half Myrish: I don’t think those who have expressed concern over the costuming choices made for the Dothraki are suddenly going to say, “Ah, it all makes sense now that the Dothraki can’t sew a finished seam. Oh, those rips in that random dangling bit of leather really add something, now that I see it on TV.”It’s fine if HBO didn”t want to copy GRRM’s clothing and wanted some fresh, new costume designs for the Dothraki. However, the look they ended up with is neither aesthetically pleasing, nor is it even remotely functional looking. This bothers me much more than the lack of bells or vests or leggings, etc. Not sure about the arakhs either. And messing up the look of an entire culture is more serious than just one bad costume (see Dany’s burlap halter top). I think the overall series will still be fantastic, but the Dothraki’s look has been a disappointment, especially compared to a lot of other fantastic costumes.  Quote  Reply

    My thoughts exactly. Costume design changes have never been an issue for me. I can understand it, and have even come to expect it, but I always hope that the changes will look good or make sense. What the Dothraki have been given is somewhat lacking to my eye. But again, for me, it’s a minor quibble. I’ll still watch the show regardless of what people are (or aren’t) wearing. :)

  24. mummer
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    Leah,

    In purely logical terms you’re right, but I’m trying to think of the dramatic effect for the viewer. I know the series won’t be using strict POV storytelling like the books, but if I had to pick one part where the limited POV really makes a difference to how the setting comes across, it’d be this. If Emilia Clarke is standing there looking confused, but we know what everyone’s saying… I’m not saying it couldn’t work, but it’s a very different effect than if we’re in the same boat with her. I think you’d be sacrificing much of the suspense in those scenes, for no particular reason except maybe our desire to learn some Dothraki phrases.

    Plus, as Johanna pointed out, people are often translating for Dany in those early chapters, and that could get annoying pretty fast; instead of Jorah being a helpful presence, we’d just be impatiently waiting for him to finish recapping what we just saw in the subtitles.

  25. Jéssica de F. Maciel
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    mummer,

    i would very like to see something similar to what they have done in 13th warrior, regarding dany learning the dothraki language, but of corse, much slower than what is showed on the film.

  26. Leah
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    mummer,

    Aaahh. Gotcha, Mummer. I misunderstood your earlier post and I thought you meant you didn’t want subs at all. That’s what I get for speed-reading comments!

    Anyway, I agree with you. No subs to start, then add them as Dany learns the language.

  27. Sensuki
    Posted December 10, 2010 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

    what do you think they’ll do regarding High Valyrian with the Ghiscari?

    Just have Dany speak in Dothraki and pretend not to understand english/common ?

  28. Lex
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 3:32 am | Permalink

    This is probably the first time I’ve chimed in on the Dothraki debate(s). I’ve half paid attention, but here’s my two cents.

    1. I don’t really have a problem with the costumes. Is it the leather and burlap that’s wrong? I can’t remember what they wear in the books, and I think this looks good enough that I’m not bothered by it.

    2. Are the bells missing? That’s a shame… but in this still photo, Drogo’s braid looks REALLY long! So I guess they’re keeping the long hair for undefeated warriors… which is cool. Maybe the bells just sounded weird on screen? Some of GRRM’s ideas probably sound cooler on paper than they would on TV.

    I also have no problem with Drogo’s look and makeup. I think he looks wicked.

  29. Half Myrish
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    Me personally, I hate the burlap, love the leather. In the books, they wear horsehair leggings (so like leather but with the hair on), painted leather vests, and medallion belts. The richer Dothraki also wear sandsilk garments.

    It’s not so much the specific materials HBO used, it’s HOW they used them. I think every single Dothraki costume I’ve seen has featured random tears, unraveling edges, dangling string, unnecessary flaps, etc. Real people, even in supposedly “primitive” or “barbaric” settings, do not wear clothing like this. And HBO made such a big deal about the functionality and realism of their made up cultures.

    Khal Drogo’s make-up does not bug me. I like Jason Momoa, I think he will be excellent. I do think however that the Khal should have better clothing. He’s the Khal of Khals, he’s rich, he’s a warrior and he takes what he wants. Khal Drogo should not be walking around in ripped leather pants looking like a beggar.

  30. Lord Ned's Head
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Just a thought. Perhaps the string is meant to be functional? Maybe they can tie things like ration pouches or even daggers to them in order to keep their hands free? As to the rips and tears, I can only imagine that the khalasar’s joourney can be long and demanding on both body and wardrobe. In the bloody culture that is the Dothraki, both fighting (raids as well as individual fights among the dothraki) and hunting big game like the lion Drogo kills for Dany are commonplace. Perhaps the rips and tears on their clothing are meant to be their as badges of honor? The more ripped up your clothing, the bigger badass you are? As wierd as it sounds, it also kind of fits the Dothraki mentality. It could be a cheaper, less noisy way to substitute for the bells.
    I’m not saying I love the look either. I’d have expected alot more furs. But perhaps this is a way to explain your concerns?

  31. Lord Ned's Head
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Hmm. Another thought. The Ironborn only wear jewlery taken from their conquests. What if the Dothraki are similar? It might even make more sense for them than just for ornamental value. Roaming over the grasslands would probably limit one’s wardrobe. I can imagine that the Dohtraki have a different sense of value than other cultures throught GRRM’s world. Much like the American Indians, I propose that when the Dothraki invade a settlement, everything they can take with them, including clothing gets used. I could very well see a thought process like this going on in the Wardrobe artists minds as they collaborated to develop the clothing for an entirely made up culture.

  32. Medit
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    I would love to have a Dothraki dictionary. I suppose for now I’ll hope for subtitles, but I don’t even mind if they keep things untranslated. (Unless important plot points happen in Dothraki.)

    Came across an interesting post on HBO’s costuming decisions: http://justrambles.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/the-costuming-of-hbos-a-game-of-thrones/

  33. Lord Ned's Head
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Nice find on the costume blog Medit, though I do have to say that I htink the author is a little too concerned in some areas. Maisie looks perfect to me. I never got the impression that she should be wearing “princess” clothes that have gone bad, but instead, she truly just doesn’t care and throws on any old thing.
    The concerns over the armor would be valid if everyone in armor was in a full-fledged battle. Most of the city and house guard types probably wouldn’t find it very functional on a day to day basis if they were in full plate. I’d even be willing to bet that the KImng’s Guard wears different armor for battle and tourneys than they do when guarding the king in more mundane moments. I don’t believe the boks mention any alternate wardrobe, but as a costume designer trying to piece together a visual world, I think the change would make sense. The scene where Jaime is wearing the tan outfit is a great choice (depending on the actual plot and what happens prior to the scene). I like the fact that the cast doesn’t parade around in armor at every waking moment. Real clothing on real people. Nice!

  34. hinka
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Vote for GRRM @ cage match against robert jordan (rand Vs mountain!)

    http://sf-fantasy.suvudu.com/2010/12/cage-match-the-end-is-almost-nigh.html

    this summer, rand al’thor bet jaime. this winter, The Mountain That Rides can revange jaimes lost!
    Vote till 20th of december!

    sincerly
    hinka

  35. winterqueen
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    It might just be me, but Daenerys does not look pregnant in anything HBO has shown us. I really hope they keep Dany’s pregnancy in the show.

  36. Tar Kidho
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    Medit: Came across an interesting post on HBO’s costuming decisions: http://justrambles.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/the-costuming-of-hbos-a-game-of-thrones/    

    Very interesting find Medit, thanks for posting. Or not? In one way, I can agree completely with the blogger’s views, but in another way, I somehow think I might be happier about the show if I didn’t read such critical assessments of people who maybe care too much. What is more, I started realizing I would have liked it much more if GRRM had finished the series before the show started airing, so that I could have read them with the most open mind. Now, I fear that my reading experience will not nearly be the same for the remaining books…

  37. Stella Maris
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    winterqueen,

    Yeah, that’s an excellent point. When she runs up to Drogo in the Lhazareen village and when she orders the khalasar to stop, she should be pregnant in both scenes. It doesn’t look like she is in either.

    Now you have me worried.

  38. The Rabbit
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    winterqueen,

    Yeah, that is interesting I have noticed that fact, too.
    Although the only scene so far where we could spotted Dany pregnant is Lhazaren village shot.
    Maybe they decided not to go with the pregnancy in the series.

  39. Steve the Pirate
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    Why would they show her looking pregnant? That would be a spoiler. Makes sense they would never show her looking huge and preggo.

  40. winterqueen
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    The Rabbit,

    I really hope HBO keeps Dany’s pregnancy in the storyline. This is just my personal 2 cents on the subject, but I think the combination of losing Rhaego, the sacrifice of her husband, the killing of Mirri and of course, walking into fire gave birth to the dragons. Three lives for three live dragons. Only death can pay for life…..

  41. Stella Maris
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Lord Ned’s Head,

    Another note about the armor – she doesn’t seem to realize that in the instance of Jaime, he has mail under that surcoat (if that’s what its called), which is a hell of a lot more practical for being nimble (something a a guard of the king should be) than a full suit of armor, should trouble arise. Boiled leather is everywhere, everywhere in Westeros. Again, it’s a practical compromise for those who wish to have protection while going through their daily business (like Ned), without having the weight, expense, or threatening appearance of wearing chainmail or a full suit of armor.

    That said, I do agree with a few of her gripes (the Lannister armor being extremely weird, Sandor’s scarring , Cersei’s kind of bizarre hair), but I find most of them to be too insignificant (the knotted collar of Arya and Sansa’s dresses, Arya’s costuming, Jaime’s “showoff” coat) or too huffy to take her seriously (Dany’s eyebrows, the Lannister guards’ attire, the peasants’ garb.) It would be nice if she explained the “lacing style” thing because as someone who has no exposure to historical fashion, I have no idea what she’s talking about.

    I do find her remark about generational differences in attire to be interesting, but I dismiss it because it is very clear that what the characters wear is meant primarily to display where they are from and not when they are from. We have their general appearance for that. It makes sense to me that the children should follow their elders in attire because of the tight bonds within each house and wearing it as a mark of their filial pride and unity (a good example being Joff’s costume being similar to Robert’s in one scene, and his costume being similar to Tyrion’s in the next), not as a mark to separate them from their elders. I do note that Jaime’s costumes are markedly different, but I can easily attribute this to his flamboyant, flippant self-styling. In the books be has markedly separated his identity from House Lannister by parading around in golden armor and being a Kingsguard knight, so it makes sense to me that his costuming should be markedly different from that of his kin.

    On a similar note, back to Cersei’s weird hair…I can forgive this because Cersei is an extremely vain character, so I think the hair bespeaks of that particular character trait. It might even be hearkening back to the peculiar (at the time) reign of Elizabeth I, who wanted to set herself so apart from other women and other monarchs that she started the bizzare styling of painting her face white, emphasizing her high forehead with an unusual hairstyle, and wearing huge lace collars that were ridiculously huge even by that day’s standards. As weird as it was, the ladies of her court scrambled to imitate their Queen in style and thus began the one-woman tour de force of Elizabethan fashion. I don’t think it would be a stretch to attribute the same sort of internal justification to Cersei, who sees herself as an immensely powerful woman who wishes to be the dominant monarch in her own right, in a world where women are historically subordinate to their husbands. The ostentatious hair could just be her way of saying “I’m so different and powerful that I should be revered and imitated by my inferiors. Look at meeee!” Which I think would be a totally Cersei thing to do.

  42. The Rabbit
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    winterqueen,

    Well, that is how the story goes in the books. But not necessary in the series.
    They could change this and make Maegi responsible only for Drogo s death.

  43. Phoenix_torn
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    The Rabbit,

    I too find it odd that Dany isn’t preggers it those clips and was trying to come up with a reason. Could they be expanding Maegi’s role? If they, say, arrived a Lhazareen earlier in their trek and brought MMD into the camp then, it could be more dramatic when she eventually Betrays Dany/Kills Drogo/etc More time for character development?

  44. Dom
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    The Rabbit: winterqueen,
    Well, that is how the story goes in the books. But not necessary in the series.
    They could change this and make Maegi responsible only for Drogo s death.    

    Or, in the series Dany may be still in her early periods of pregnancy when she loses Rhaego. It’s possible they wanted to avoid the deformed baby plotline and fake-looking pregnant bellies. But yeah, I’m a tad worried about that too :/

  45. Stella Maris
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    The Rabbit,

    I think they would lose a lot of depth from the series if they omitted the pregnancy. There is not only the “life must pay for death” bit that winterqueen pointed out, but the core of Dany’s emotional maturation is, in my option, based on the concept of motherhood.

    I feel like Dany’s love for Drogo is developed more deeply because of her pregnancy. She is forced to grow up a bit during her time at Vaes Dothrak because of the sense of great importance she is given from her pregnancy, and her realization that she will birth the Stallion that Mounts the World. Viserys freaks out at Dany because of her pregnancy and is murdered by Drogo as a result. When she loses Rhaego, she is told by Mirri Maz Duur that she is barren. This, in turn, makes her the mother of dragons and gives a unique facet to her relationship with her dragons that would not be seen if her pregnancy were omitted. When she is confronted by the dead slave children nailed to posts on the road to Meereen, she is deeply affected and, in turn, inflicts a fitting punishment on the Great Masters. After she frees the slaves of Meereen, she is greeted by chants of “Mother!” (I think this happened in Yunkai too?).

    I think Dany’s loss of her pregnancy deeply affects her development throughout the later parts of the series. She becomes extremely sympathetic to children and extremely protective of those she is determined to protect. Without her pregnancy, I feel like the depth of her development is lacking.

  46. Ellira
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Stella Maris,

    You have some great points, thanks for sharing.

    To me, it doesn’t look like Jaime is wearing mail under all that. He looks far too slim! On his arm/shoulder you can clearly see the fabric padding, and the mail would be *over* that, or else he’d need another layer of padding underneath it to protect his skin. You’re completely right that it’s aimed at providing more ease of movement. Perhaps Jaime’s tourney/war armour will be more heavy-duty. Gregor Clegane and Loras Tyrell certainly seem armoured well enough.

    I apologise for not explaining the lacing style thing. I always assume no one’s interested. Usually eyes glaze over whenever it’s mentioned. XD Jen Thompson explains it better than I can in the Zen of Spiral Lacing, but basically one lace was passed through the eyelets in a spiral the vast majority of the time, up until some time in the 1700s. Minor though it may be, it’s a bit of a sore point with a fair number of historical costuming aficionados!

    The similarity of clothing between houses rather than generations is something that makes a lot of sense now you’ve mentioned it, and Jaime’s difference could certainly be attributed to his own sense of style. I suppose even back in the days when fashion changed mostly by degrees, there was always someone a couple of degrees ahead. I’ll be thinking of Jaime as a fashion-forward kind of guy from now on.

    Cerseis hair makes more sense now, at least within the context of the story. I’m still not sure why they went for something so unsexy to the modern eye, but as a friend said to me, perhaps they’re going for a different kind of allure!

  47. Dom
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    Wait, I remembered now that we have an Old Dothraki Crone in the process of casting. That should resolve our doubts, shouldn’t it? ;)

  48. Stella Maris
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Ellira,

    Thanks for the reply! Okay, now I get the lacing comment – thanks for the link very interesting! Learn something new every day :) I agree with you, I find it curious that this was not adopted.

    LOL @ Jaime as being” fashion-forward”. I’m going to have to remember this one! He definitely gives Varys a run for his money ;)

    I too wish they had gone a different way with Cersei’s hair because it is just bizarre. If they insisted on going with crazy hairstyles, I wish they had gone more the route of traditional braiding and elaborate variations rather than those asymmetric braid/bouffant things. I guess it’s just going to be one of those things I’ll understand but never be crazy about.

  49. The Rabbit
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    Dom,

    Yeah, you are right why would bring in the old crone in if Dany is not carrying the baby.
    Maybe they would go only with miscarriage not with birth of the baby. That could be the explanation of no-big-belly.
    And yes the whole “mother of dragons” thing is tightly connected to the maternity.

  50. Tysnow
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    winterqueen,

    You noticed that too, I have avoided this, since I cannot remember if she was pregnant at the Las village, I thought she was well along but did not want to pick up and reread this close to the series so I wouldn’t get distracted from the differences.

  51. DH87
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    Stella Maris: It might even be hearkening back to the peculiar (at the time) reign of Elizabeth I, who wanted to set herself so apart from other women and other monarchs that she started the bizzare styling of painting her face white, emphasizing her high forehead with an unusual hairstyle, and wearing huge lace collars that were ridiculously huge even by that day’s standards.

    Elizabeth, who had been a lovely young woman when she ascended the throne, painted her face white to minimize the appearance of her facial scarring from smallpox in 1562, and wore high collars and sumptuous jewelry to disguise her “aging” neck and shoulders in an effort to stay beautiful when others of her age were considered withered crones. Today, Botox and plastic surgery would have been her weapons of choice, not fabric and jewelry! :)

    Half Myrish: Me personally, I hate the burlap, love the leather. In the books, they wear horsehair leggings (so like leather but with the hair on), painted leather vests, and medallion belts.

    Equestrian attire has changed relatively little over the centuries, since the horse has changed…. well, it hasn’t changed, has it? Leather leggings or chaps and boots are still the hardest wearing, most protective natural product of choice. So any leather in any condition, including darkened by sweat, scratched by brambles, even torn by nails/knives is the equestrian standard where it is available. The upper body needs protection from sun and sand in desert countries but leather traps heat. The “burlap” the costumers are using I think is an attempt to mimic linen homespun, which is a loomed product of plant fibers where available and is often dyed with plant dyes. The weave should have been finer, it seems to me, because the burlap we are seeing in some of these shots of Dany’s costume looks like it came directly from the home and garden center. They could have dyed it, with indigo, for example. But in the context of the show, I think it will serve.

  52. Charisse
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    winterqueen,
    Wasn’t there a post awhile ago about a casting search for a crone who “conducts a savage ritual” in a foreign language? I assumed that was the eating of the stallion’s heart and therefore am thinking the pregnancy is definitely in. Is there another savage ritual it could be?

  53. Charisse
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Charisse: winterqueen,
    Wasn’t there a post awhile ago about a casting search for a crone who “conducts a savage ritual” in a foreign language? I assumed that was the eating of the stallion’s heart and therefore am thinking the pregnancy is definitely in.Is there another savage ritual it could be?    

    found it! This post: http://winter-is-coming.net/2010/10/looking-for-a-dothraki-crone/ – I don’t think we ever heard more about it, but it sure sounds like that.

  54. Half Myrish
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    Lord Ned’s Head,

    Perhaps the string is meant to be functional? Maybe they can tie things like ration pouches or even daggers to them in order to keep their hands free?

    I would maybe buy that theory for the thicker cords at the waist of some of the
    Dothraki costumes. But I was referring to the thin strings that are hanging off the arms and torso, like leftover threads from constructing the garment. They wouldn’t support much weight and the Dothraki would probably attach ration pouches and spare weapons to their horses, not all over themselves.

    Perhaps the rips and tears on their clothing are meant to be their as badges of honor? The more ripped up your clothing, the bigger badass you are?

    In that case, what do the poor Dothraki wear, versus rich Dothraki like Khal Drogo? Because usually only the poorest members of a society wear ragged clothing on a regular basis. Because it will just continue to tear and fall apart.

    I propose that when the Dothraki invade a settlement, everything they can take with them, including clothing gets used. I could very well see a thought process like this going on in the Wardrobe artists minds as they collaborated to develop the clothing for an entirely made up culture.

    In this case, I would think we would see more variety and color in the Dothraki’s clothing, as though it came from many different cultures. Right now, it all looks like the same badly made leather and burlap to me.

    Just because the Dothraki are nomadic and live on the grasslands doesn’t mean they don’t have wardrobe options. They have horses and wild game for leather/skins. In addition to raiding other cultures, the Free Cities would frequently give gifts to the khalasars. The Dothraki are a successful warrior people, they’re NOT poor. If they were a real culture, I bet they would put straight finished seams on their clothing too, not the haphazard junk I see in the HBO pictures.

  55. Ser Hedgeknight
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Well here goes, my 2 c worth on the Dothraki fashiongate… ;)

    If you look here http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/storage/daenerys-field.jpg and zoom in close it appears that the woven parts of Dany’s outfit are actually made up of fine strips of hide or skin of some kind as opposed to fabric or burlap.

    This of course does nothing to alter the look of the garments as far as whether or not they fit reader’s perceptions of what they should look like, but it does show that more effort has gone into using the materials/skins that a tribe would have on hand to manufacture their clothing. This IMHO indicates the costume designers have gone to more effort then just using burlap or similar to create the wild tribal Dothraki look.

  56. Arithine
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    I think I understand whats being said by having no subtitles until Daenerys understands the language, and I would have to agree. If you really want to convey the confusion Daenerys has to deal with the best way is to show a complete lack of understanding.

  57. Arithine
    Posted December 11, 2010 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    As an addition to the above comment it would help show the audience her evolution to becoming part of the Dothraki society and drive home her sadness once her sun and stars dies

  58. obsidian
    Posted December 12, 2010 at 12:13 am | Permalink

    I would have liked to see a little more colour and finish to the Dothraki costumes, too. Possibly , they’re thinking the raggedness will contribute to the audience perceiving them as really wild and alien..you know, along with the multiple-death weddings and sex wherever the spirit moves you…. It won’t bother me so much I won’t watch..and I am hoping to see them make use of the loot they take

    on their travels with Dany..

    ..Even so, isn’t it in the books somewhere that the Dothraki disdain to wear other cultures fashions ?

    I’m betting they’ll go for an earlier miscarriage ,rather than a stillbirth. someone could still comment on the fetus being abnormal. I think the 3 deaths are too important to leave out.

    Normally ,I’m a harsh critic of taking too many libeties with historical costumes ( really annoyed me with Rome, and turned me right off the Tudors so that I never saw more than a couple of partial episodes ) , but in this case it’s not our history. Doesn’t GRRM say that he was inspired by the 12th-15th C, or something like that ? So even if it was our history that would allow for some pretty great variance. But because it’s Westeros, there’s even more room for deviation. It’s obvious someone in Westeros thought of interweaving lacings earlier than we did..along with more modern-looking collars, and a few other innovations. I can buy that..( as long as it’s not zippers or snap fasteners) ;)

  59. obsidian
    Posted December 12, 2010 at 12:21 am | Permalink

    Damn ! I quoted instead of spoiler-ing. Glad I wasn’t talking about the Red Wedding….. Button , button , who has the edit button ?

  60. Jimmy
    Posted December 12, 2010 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    Aren’t there only two relevant deaths (relevant for the dragons)?
    Rhaego’s death was the payment for Drogo’s life, not for one of the dragons. That leaves only Drogo and Mirri.

  61. Jéssica de F. Maciel
    Posted December 12, 2010 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    Jimmy,

    In that case, wouldn’t Drogo be carrying the payment for two, because of the borrowed lifeplus his own?

  62. Half Myrish
    Posted December 12, 2010 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    In my opinion, I think when Dany smothered Drogo and added Mirri to the his pyre, without meaning to, she took back Rhaego’s lifeforce for the dragons. Since Rhaego died by Mirri’s magic to save Drogo . So it would still those three lives.

  63. Dom
    Posted December 12, 2010 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Jimmy

    Maybe I misremember, but wasn’t Drogo’s horse killed and put on the Khal’s pyre? In that case, Drogo + Mirri + Horse = 3

  64. Jimmy
    Posted December 12, 2010 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Dom:
    Maybe I misremember, but wasn’t Drogo’s horse killed and put on the Khal’s pyre? In that case, Drogo + Mirri + Horse = 3    

    Drogo’s horse? That is an interesting concept. Would that work with a dog too? Or with a hamster? Trade three hamsters for three dragons. I would totally do that.

  65. Half Myrish
    Posted December 12, 2010 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Drogo’s red stallion had his throat cut during Mirri’s ritual to save Drogo’s life. A different horse was killed and substituted for Drogo’s pyre mount. Somehow, I don’t think a horse counts for the dragons. Dany even specifically says that the dragons were given life by her need and the deaths of her husband and unborn son.

    Someone let me know if I’m misremembering. But three hamsters now, that might work…

  66. Sharron Clemons
    Posted December 21, 2010 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    Aren’t there only two relevant deaths (relevant for the dragons)? Rhaego’s death was the payment for Drogo’s life, not for one of the dragons. That leaves only Drogo and Mirri.

  1. [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by mhladnik, Winter Is Coming. Winter Is Coming said: New post: MGoT update: Join the Dothraki horde http://bit.ly/fInLpF #GameofThrones [...]

  2. [...] Jason Momoa – His Conan movie was renamed to Conan the Barbarian, but still has the same release date in the United States: August 19, 2011. For his other project, HBO’s Game of Thrones, there are some rumors going around that HBO might already be renewing the new series for a second season, even before the first has been aired. Speculation as to why this might be the case can be found at the fansite Winter Is Coming. This fansite is very active in posting the latest news on the new HBO series and this editor highly recommends it. There’s also a recent article that includes an image of Momoa as Khal Drogo entitled “MGoT update: Join the Dothraki horde.” [...]


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