Tena talks Thrones
By Fire And Blood on in Media.

In a recent live interview with Ben Mortimer of BleedingCool.com, Natalia Tena gushed about her role as Osha in Game of Thrones (among many other things).

Here’s Part Two of the interview in which she discusses the role and Belfast filming. Game of Thrones talk starts at the 5:15 mark.

For those of you curious about the entire interview, both parts can be found HERE.

Probably the most interesting part is not only how certain she is that there will be a second “series” (season, as the Gude pointed out in an earlier thread)… but that she expects filming to start again in the spring. It also seems as though they brought Tena back to film one extra scene that they had apparently written just for her.

Fire And Blood: Lovin’ it! It’s no secret Natalia blew the producers–and GRRM–away in her audition. Clearly they are heading in a slightly different (read: charismatic) direction for Osha. And I’m more than fine with it. Tena brings a already-loyal following of Harry Potter fans with her, and Osha’s unattractiveness was never really a plot point. She just needs to be tomboy-tough. If she can bring the earthy sort of madness she displays in interviews to the role, I think we’re in for a treat.


122 Comments

  1. Brad Villane
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    Love the enthusiasm! Can’t wait to see where she takes Osha…but is it just me or does she seem a bit coked out?

  2. Victoria Cole
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    Well she’s fun!

  3. Fire And Blood
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Brad Villane,

    Certainly a bit of a scattershot hippie vibe going on, but I know a few people in London who knew her (or at least knew of her) at a younger age, and general consensus is she’s always been like that. This is the same chick who decided for no real reason to strip naked and jump in the Thames.

    I think it was the Thames. And that’s just bloody dangerous.

    Artists, man.

  4. Brad Villane
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    Well coke or no coke, I love how excited she is about the book.

  5. Michelle
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    I can’t say her use of the word “gay” to refer to her excitement at reading the ASOIaF books, but I think she’ll do great in the Osha role. She really does give off wildling vibes in my opinion.

  6. Michelle
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    I meant to say I can’t say I like her use of the word “gay”.

  7. Jordan Healey
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    She’s in for a treat when she actually finishes reading the series, haha.

    Hopefully it inspires some supreme acting.

  8. Zack
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    I somehow always pictured Osha as relatively cute in my mind for some reason, so I was pretty happy with the casting from the beginning, naturally. And her enthusiasm for the project is infectious. Couldn’t help but grin like an idiot as she went nuts going over the plot and her reaction to getting the part.

  9. reedgirl
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    Every time I see her I love her even more! She talks like an Italian, with her hands and a very expressive, enthusiastic face/voice. Better than the usual, flat-faced, dry party line of: “it was very exciting to work with this director/actor/production”, said with no excitement whatsoever.

    She’s truly alive and vivid and real, and I can’t wait to see her as Osha. (It’s great that not all actors are numb to the brilliance of their world. The opposite of boring is not necessarily ‘coked-up’) If she’s a hippie, I’m jumping in the VW van too. Road trip!

  10. WAG
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    That sounds gay? Don’t understand that.. some weird as hell british slang I don’t understand?

  11. Ryan Cordes
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    WAG,

    No, but gay rarely refers to homosexual anymore.

  12. arch
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    Gay in British fun, happy. This long before its sexual meaning!
    Ryan Cordes,

  13. Winston Wolf
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    It’s no secret Natalia blew the producers–and GRRM

    *snicker*

  14. Felix Zschieschow
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    she’s using gay as in “lame”.

  15. Jencendiary
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    Felix Zschieschow: she’s using gay as in “lame”.    

    That’s just the sort of usage that would tip me from being apathetic about a person to being in the “they’re really going to have to win me over with acting” camp. :(

    And yes. Totally coked up. Most actors do a much better job of maintaining, though.

  16. Felix Zschieschow
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    Jencendiary,

    unfortunately it’s become so much of a thing in society that most people don’t even notice/care anymore. heck, I sometimes find myself using the term then feel guilty and tell myself to watch my language more.

  17. Jencendiary
    Posted December 26, 2010 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    Felix Zschieschow,

    I’ll come over to your house and pinch you when you do it. It’ll be like behavior modification.

    Back on topic: For enthusiasm: 10. For ability to express ideas in a coherent fashion: -5.

  18. Amir Mishali
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 12:27 am | Permalink

    Brad Villane: does she seem a bit coked out?    

    I was thinking the same thing.

  19. WTaylor
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 1:49 am | Permalink

    reedgirl,

    I think she has spanish parents so that might explain the expressive hand gestures.

    And yes “gay” is generally used by young people to mean stupid or silly( i dont know why).
    Also if you think she’s quite frank here, watch the part.1 of the interview

  20. Hear Me Roar
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 3:25 am | Permalink

    Her enthusiasm and the mention of spring is what I like most.

  21. ablaaa
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 4:26 am | Permalink

    hey hey hey

    Don’t act gay, guys. It’s perfectly legit to use “gay” in that context. Geez…

    And Natalia Tena is awesome, by the way. Can’t wait.

  22. Elaine
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 4:42 am | Permalink

    Sorry, but using the word “gay” to refer to something lame or stupid is juvenile for a teenager and unacceptable for an adult. It doesn’t matter if it’s “just what some people say”: some people use the “n-word” to refer to black people, too, but that doesn’t make it okay.

    Anyway, I loved this casting for Osha (I always imagined her as cute in a kind of stringy, hardcore kinda way), but I don’t think much of Tena herself.

  23. Maester Tcost
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 5:12 am | Permalink

    I’m afraid that this kind of use of “gay” has become very regular and ordinary among younger people these days. I hate it like poison, but that’s the way the world is. So while I don’t approve of Tena’s use of the term, I can’t take too much exception at it because it really is part of the vernacular. And I think that the usage usually means “silly” or foolish more than “lame” or tiresome.

    In any event, this girl certainly isn’t a cookie-cutter celeb and has passions and definite opinions about things, she’s been inspired to read the first book and really likes it. These are good things! I do have to wonder at an original scene written with the actress in mind, and where in the book it’s going to go. Maybe in the kitchens with the randy cook?

  24. Katja
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    She’s great! I wanna be her friend!

    Love the fact that she obviously knows her genre fiction, and the mentions of starting again in spring. She’s gonna be great with the Stark boys.

  25. PremRack
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    Are you people complaining about the use of a word “gay” like 50 or something? Because every person younger than that would have told you that gay=lame is a standard unofficial speech and have absolutely no homophobic connection.

  26. Cutter Allen Kilgore
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    I really dig her energy and obvious excitement for the series. And I loved hearing about how she’s gotten so much more into it since she started reading the book and realizing that she project was actually pretty badass. :) I’m looking forward to seeing her take on Osha. I have a feeling she will add some youthful zest and edginess to a smallish role that could very easily have gone almost unnoticed to some casual viewers.

  27. Knurk
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    Come people, commenting about the word gay is kind of gay itself. For the record, I’m busting your balls, but why get upset about the use of a word that is not offensive at all.

  28. ben
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    Wait a minute! “Gay” means homosexual? Since when? I never realized that
    lol.

    [/sarcasm]

    Now stop policing language, m’kay? I really doubt that she’s homophobic in any way.

  29. Adam Whitehead
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    Fire And Blood,

    She jumped into a lake at a music festival, not the Thames (that I know of). That really would be utterly stupid, not just because the Thames is rank but because the tidal pull of the river can sweep people out to sea if they’re not careful.

  30. Ninepenny
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    I’m not a fan of the usage but I wouldn’t read too much into it. The last time I heard “gay” used as a synonym for “lame” it was by someone who was in a same-sex relationship. They didn’t use it as part of any sort of political statement but simply because it was part of the vernacular.

  31. Lynon
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    The use of “gay” as “lame” (at least for young people in britain) is just a fact of life. Hell, I’ve probably used it as much as anyone, and I have quiet a few homosexual friends (who actually don’t care about its use in this way and often use it themselves). It’s just the evolution of language, the same way lame probably derived from someone actually being lame, and calling someone dumb instead of stupid probably derived from the link made between not being able to speak and being unintelligent.

    Anyhow, as it has already been pointed out, the original meaning of gay had nothing to do with homosexuality. Sometimes I wonder why people get so worked up by modern vocabulary.

  32. Brude
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Tena is of an age where political correctness about use of language hardly exists anymore. For people my age (nearly 40) it was a big deal when we were in college and there were all sorts of issues and fights about it (we had sit ins and all kinds of crazy, over-the-top shit at our school). Her generation pretty much rejected all of that and so calling someone “gay” to mean ‘lame’ has no offensive context at all in that age group.

    Also, in part 1 of the interview she mentions that she and her semi-boyfriend are into threesomes, but have different taste in women which is a bit of a sticking point for them, so I doubt her use of the word “gay” has anything to do with homophobia on her part…she’s bisexual.

  33. Ed
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Because it makes them feel important? Heck, I don’t know. You can tell from the context that she’s not trying to offend, and if she’s not trying to offend anybody… why be offended?

    I figure, if someone wants to be offended by it, that’s on them.

    …Sometimes I wonder why people get so worked up by modern vocabulary.    

  34. sjwenings
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    The whole new usage of the word Gay might be South parks fault. I don’t know if they came up with it, but they sure have made it more popular. I don’t really know how i feel about it. But i guess mostly it’s just not a big deal.

  35. Rose
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Meh. I think you need to be careful who you say “gay” around, but like, I don’t know. I’m a huge, passionate gay rights supporter and a bisexual woman. There’s no soapbox in the world more important to me than gay rights and equalities. And I say “gay” around my friends. I even say f** around my friends, though I’m much more careful who I say it too.

    I know those words can be very hateful, and they can deeply affect people who have negative assosications to them, and I do sort of get bemused when someone says them on television or in a public forum like this, but I’d be lying if I said I’ve never had it slip out my mouth, or if I said I took any offense to it in that specific sort of context. It’s a slippery slope to say it should be allowed by anyone, anywhere, because it CAN be very, very homophobic — anyone who’s spent five minutes on XBox Live can tell you that — but there’s a lot of variables.

    Anyway, as for Tena, she is in no way how I imagined Osha … but Osha never made any sort of impression on me at all, so I can only see her being an upgrade.

  36. The Stags Lover
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    oh come on, this whole subject is “gay”.
    Tena is clearly NOT on coke, she’s just a passionate excited actress who’s obviously stoked about her upcoming projects – who wouldn’t behave this way. i know i would!!
    and all this nonsense about her choice of words is also ridiculous, its a passing comment – not to be taken seriously, she’s an artist, having freedom of expression, not a politician so let it go.
    p.s i think she’s going to make a very bold and interesting Osha, i can’t wait. more actresses should be more like her, less up herself and more REAL.
    p.p.s this is my first post after months of following the site ;)

  37. A Man Grown
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    She is amazing, can’t wait to see her on the show. When someone is that refreshingly honest and open I think we should be thankful for it, rather than singling out one word for criticism or making jaded assumptions about her enthusiasm.

    And this is my second post after months of following the site, so I’m right there with you The Stags Lover.

  38. paulgude
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    One note I’d have about all this is that while there are plenty of gay folks who would use the term “gay” in this context or would have no problem with someone else using it, GLAAD *hates* it. The only thing this shows, of course, is that just because someone’s gay doesn’t mean they speak for all gay people. I can’t, for instance, tell some 50-year-old stranger not to be offended by a 15-year-old girl calling her friend’s shirt “gay,” just because my friend John would have said it was funny.

    The first time I ran into “gay” in this context was in the late 90s in Alan Moore’s “Promethea” in a conversation between two young girls. Either Moore was a skilled futurist (possible) or this has been part of UK teen slang for over a decade.

    Can someone around the UK at that time confirm?

    Like many problems folks have with language, the issues with it arise when its use is already somewhat established in a culture. Personally, in these cases I stop using it, don’t vilify those who do, but have sympathy with those who are offended by it.

    And I’m always finding new words that end up in this category.

  39. Nakmal
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    I think it’s funny that the word gay is getting so much attention in this thread and the word “cunt” is getting a free pass like it isn’t like the #1 most hated word on the planet. lol Not that I really had a problem with her vernacular at all.. I thought it was very candid and awesome.

  40. paulgude
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    paulgude,

    Oh, and just to be clear, I didn’t mean to imply that GLAAD reflects the views of the majority of gay people one might meet in their lifetime, but rather that they reflect the views of a significant number of people. It’s a small distinction, but important.

  41. paulgude
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Nakmal,

    “Cunt” is much more freely used in the UK, from what I’ve seen.

  42. Nicole
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    I think she will be brilliant as Osha! As fans of GRRM, I think we can all appreciate ‘refreshingly honest’ behavior :-) Rock On!

  43. Monkey
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, we use cunt quite a bit round these parts

    As a 90s kid I can confirm that we used gay to mean lame, though not as much as we use it these days. I’m a bi girl myself and I don’t care at all if people say it and I even use it fairly often myself. It’s just a fun word to say. Gaaaaaaay. Besides, you can’t use lame because, well, that word is so gay.

    So how about that new HBO series, huh?

  44. paulgude
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    Monkey,

    It’s like how “fanny” in the States is considered quaint and old-fashioned.

    Oh, man…and that HBO show?

    It’s going to be awesome.

  45. Steven Scott
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    Monkey,

    Yeah its a word in common usage and if it bothers people that much they should get some thicker skin because its not about you anymore and it hasn’t been for a very long time.

  46. ben
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Oh, and while we’re at it…

    why aren’t people with a limp getting angry about people who use the word “lame” to refer to stuff that is boring or unexciting? Huh? C’mon, where’s THE JUSTICE!?

  47. mummer
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Brude,

    Natalie Tena is 26. It’s a bit silly for you to make such statements about “that generation” if you’re 39. I’m your age and have plenty of friends Tena’s age; some find the use of “gay” as a casual all-purpose insult offensive, others don’t. Like many things, it depends largely on whether you’re hearing it from someone you like and trust, or some jerk who clearly means to give offense.

    Anyway, what’s this about “political correctness”? No one our age or Tena’s age has ever used or heard that phrase non-ironically. Personally I cringe whenever I hear it, because it’s invariably a sign that someone’s about to pat themselves on the back for their supposedly rebellious language, or to give other people very rude advice like “you should get a thicker skin.” Not that that’s what you were doing, but others on this thread are doing it, and it’s a really obnoxious and immature habit that’s way too common on the Internet.

  48. pualo
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    It’s interesting the note the intersection of the following two facts:

    1. “Gay” is used mostly by young people.
    2. Young people tend to be much more gay friendly than old people.

    I’ve been using it for 15 years at least in the northwestern US, since I was a teenager. Now excuse me while I go find some gay cunt.

  49. Adam Whitehead
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    The first time I ran into “gay” in this context was in the late 90s in Alan Moore’s “Promethea” in a conversation between two young girls. Either Moore was a skilled futurist (possible) or this has been part of UK teen slang for over a decade.

    Can someone around the UK at that time confirm?

    This is definitely the case. However, I must admit I thought it was more widespread in the USA as well. SOUTH PARK has been using it in that context since at least the movie (released in 1998, IIRC).

  50. Gurgi
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    I remember hearing the term “So Gay” to mean something lame in around the year 2000.

    Love the girls enthusiasm. Hope she rocks in what seems a real minor part.

  51. mummer
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    pualo,

    I guess someone might be interested in observations on language usage and friendliness from someone who thinks it’s cool to say things like “Pretty much all women look fat to me“… but I’ll pass.

  52. Lex
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    Piping in on the “gay” debate, it is DEFINITELY considered offensive to many people (gay and straight) in Canada. Almost all public schools in Vancouver have signs in the classrooms that read: “‘That’s So Gay” is Not Okay. It’s considered offensive because it’s equating gay with being bad/lame/shitty/stupid/all-around-negative.

    Here’s one of several public service announcements about the issue.

    All that aside, Natalia Tena acts and sounds a lot different than I expected, based on Harry Potter. I also didn’t know that she was a musician. She looks like she’ll make a good Osha, and I love how excited she is about the book.

  53. Ed
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, I’m sure the multiple swipes/wipes at her nose were just coincidence, or a runny nose…

    The Stags Lover: hink she’s going to make a very bold and interesting Osha, i can’t wait

  54. pualo
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    mummer,

    If you think what I said was somehow offensive, I’d like to hear why.

  55. mummer
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    pualo,

    I’d rather not derail the thread further, and I’m quite sure you know exactly what you’re doing.

  56. pualo
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    mummer,

    Okay, but you’re the one who brought up a previous comment of mine as if it were somehow relevant to the discussion at hand, in which I’m pretty sure I didn’t post anything even remotely controversial. It made me feel a bit under attack and unwelcome. Please be careful what you say to people. I am a longtime community member here who I believe has made some valuable contributions to various discussions and I just don’t want anyone to have the impression that I’m something I’m not.

  57. Brude
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

    mummer: Brude,
    Natalie Tena is 26. It’s a bit silly for you to make such statements about “that generation” if you’re 39. I’m your age and have plenty of friends Tena’s age; some find the use of “gay” as a casual all-purpose insult offensive, others don’t. Like many things, it depends largely on whether you’re hearing it from someone you like and trust, or some jerk who clearly means to give offense.Anyway, what’s this about “political correctness”? No one our age or Tena’s age has ever used or heard that phrase non-ironically. Personally I cringe whenever I hear it, because it’s invariably a sign that someone’s about to pat themselves on the back for their supposedly rebellious language, or to give other people very rude advice like “you should get a thicker skin.” Not that that’s what you were doing, but others on this thread are doing it, and it’s a really obnoxious and immature habit that’s way too common on the Internet.    

    Perhaps my own experience with the whole political correctness debate in the early 90′s was far worse than yours. My college virtually shut down multiple times over sit-ins, campus-wide demonstrations and was even nearly destroyed because of a really viscous, over the top campaign that stemmed from “politically correct” agendas when they verbally berated and assaulted admitted students who were visiting the campus (only two out of the hundreds who visited that day actually wound up coming to the school, rather than the large majority who usually would – we almost didn’t have a freshman class in 1992, and most of the ones we got didn’t last a year there academically because they were from DEEP in the wait list). It was the central focus of campus life and discourse there for two of the four years I was there and these issues nearly caused me to leave the school at one point, and many people I know did leave because of it. I also know that these experiences were repeated on campuses across the country, it wasn’t just our school, though ours was a particular hotbed of it. I didn’t throw out that term idly, it was a very big deal.

    I know people in her age group that go to my school now (one of my close friends went back for grad school a few years back), and none of them have any connection to the politically correct mindset or care about these things. Yes, context and tone of a statement count for a lot, still, but it’s clear from her tone and the context that nothing was meant by it…and she’s bisexual, herself, as I stated.

    As for generations – us late 30′s people are the last of the so-called Generation X, her generation is Generation Y. It’s a 13 year gap and there are big differences. I tend to have more in common with my 50 year old friends than many of my 30 year old friends, sometimes. No, there isn’t a hard and fast dividing line between generations, of course, but 13 years is a big gap and causes a lot of differences. What we’re talking about it but one of them.

  58. Pokeliche
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    arch: Gay in British fun, happy. This long before its sexual meaning!

    Maybe she said “gay” with that meaning in mind. I’m a french speaker, and the word “gay” can also mean happy.

    “The term gay was originally used to refer to feelings of being ‘carefree’, ‘happy’, or ‘bright and showy’” -Wikipedia

  59. Phoenix_torn
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    Brude,

    I think it’s just as much about region as it is age. I’m 25 and (like Lex said earlier) where I live it is considered offensive. I know a lot of people who are REALLY offended by ‘gay’ being used as a derogatory term.

  60. Olivia
    Posted December 27, 2010 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Phoenix_torn,

    Another Vancouverite here (Phoenix, are you also in this region?); I’m 24 and definitely saying ‘gay’ to mean stupid or lame wouldn’t be shrugged off as mere youthful vernacular in this area. No more than you would accept racial slurs.

  61. VirulentShadow
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 12:10 am | Permalink

    Am I the only one who read “It’s no secret Natalia blew the producers,” and stopped there?

    Sorry.

    She looks awesome here. Without really realizing it, I have always imagined Osha something like her.

  62. Damyrn of Dorne
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 3:47 am | Permalink

    Olivia,

    Another vancouverite here… ya saying gay around here would get you lynched and labelled homophobe automatically by the rainbow brigade. To be honest, I grew up inland (still BC) and we said it all the time and didn’t think it equated to homosexuality, it just meant lame/stupid.

  63. Tar Kidho
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 4:03 am | Permalink

    What a pointless discussion about the use of a single word. Languages change through time people, just accept it. It’s what makes them interesting! And in different parts of the world, people speak differently, not only as different languages, but also within the same language. In my opinion, it is this the overly puritan approach to languages displayed by many people that stops them from speaking other languages. If one, like myself, lives in a foreign country for some years, one starts to realize how silly it is to dwell all the time over the ‘correct’ meaning and pronunciation of words. I have stopped doing so and as such have lost my fear of messing up a foreign language (and making a fool of myself). The result is that I’m able to express myself pretty well in four different languages! As for the word ‘gay’: read the wikipedia article on its history…

    But now back on topic: I love the enthusiasm Natalia Tena radiates, not only about the part, but in general. She seems the kind of person I love to get to know: a bit odd maybe, but definitely interesting and very very entertaining. She fits my mental image of the warm-blooded Osha very well, and I can’t wait to see her in that role!

  64. Ned
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    Love how some of the posters here are suggesting Tena may be on coke and yet others are more concerned by her use of the word ‘gay’. Its a strange and mysterious place.

  65. Silverjaime
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 5:45 am | Permalink

    I have gay friends who use gay=lame quite happily. It is a young person’s thing but is becoming more common. They use it for everything, and it has no homosexual connotations in that context. However, “gay” was commandeered in the beginning anyway to be a euphemism for homosexuality, so why should it matter what it’s used for now? Colloquialisms are what make the English language so interesting. Mind you – personally, I didn’t like her take on our accent here in NI !! Considering there are loads of different ones – some which do sound dour but a lot that don’t. When I met the actors at the Moot most of them commented on how they liked the Belfast accent, and most Irish men I’vd met think the Northern accents are sexy!
    But hey – she’s very passionate and fiery so I think she’ll be great!

  66. Tobias Wedin
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    Ehm…..a lot of talk about the word “gay” here. Im swedish but I still know it have multiple meanings such as the original “happy” and later on “homosexual” and nowadays “lame”.
    People who are offended by words should be locked into a tiny room where they are safe and we are safe from their stupidity.
    If you dont like it how someone uses a word then it is up to you to take that word, take it back and make it yours.
    I cant really believe that this whole thread is dedicated to this single word. You guys are morons. I am somewhat ashamed for even being here right now if someone from the show should read through this.

  67. ben
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 6:35 am | Permalink

    since when does “lame” mean the antithesis of “exciting”? :D

    I thought it meant someone with a bad leg.

  68. Katja
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    Tobias Wedin,

    Thanks for saying it in such a good way. This and the idiotic USians vs Americans discussion in the casting thread make me a bit worried where this community is going. If people want to discuss these things that’s fine, but do it on an open forum or a chatroom, not a blog dedicated to a specific topic.

  69. paulgude
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    Katja,

    It’s been like this for as long as I’ve been here, since before the pilot was cast. We get a lot of news and we’re happy, then the news dries up a bit and we start in-fighting over minutiae or non-show related issues.

    Then someone comes along and says that the discussion is stupid, others agree, and then someone comes along and says, “yes the discussion is stupid, but this happens all the time.”

    This makes me nervous, as they are all harbingers of the return of Anonymuff.

  70. Tobias Wedin
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    Katja,

    I havent read the casting thread and now I dont think I will. I dont think there are any people on this earth that complains as much as fans of sci-fi and fantasy. I think it is partly due to the fact that many of them spend their days in their own little made up fantasy worlds where everything is hunkadory and the klingons are dressed just right. Thanks for throwing you lot in with mine.

  71. Fire And Blood
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    paulgude: Katja,
    This makes me nervous, as they are all harbingers of the return of Anonymuff.    

    “Harbingers of the return of Anonymuff.” Awesome.

  72. Phoenix_torn
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Olivia,

    No, I’m in Toronto :(

  73. Knurk
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    paulgude,

    oh yes, the good old days with anonymuff. He’s still lurking around here somewhere, it’s up to him to kill this dried-up discussion.

  74. Critical Geek
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    It’s an interview on a UK site called “Bleedingcool”. As I understand, Bleeding, bloody, blood, etc has a negative connotation there about as bad a the F word does in America. It’s expected that some blue language would be on an interview for such a site, and in addition to the “what words are Not safe for work” issue, we also have British vs American values of what constitutes blue language.

    I’ve always spelled it Ghey when I meant it to mean lame to distinguish and remove all the homosexual connotation from the term. I guess that bit of spelling never took. That meaning has been around since the eighties, it’s not new.

    Looks good for the part.

  75. Adam Whitehead
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Critical Geek,

    Maybe in the 1950s or something but no, not now and not for some time. In the UK ‘bloody hell’ is now about as offensive as ‘damn’ (which is about as offensive as ‘darn’ these days) and ‘bleeding’ would not be considered a swear word at all.

  76. K26dp
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    Ned,

    Yeah really. Tena strikes me as similar to a lot of drama/theater people I know… free-spirited, fast-talking, enthusiastic, and intelligent.

  77. Critical Geek
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    Ah so close to damn then…Gotta get my swear words in proper context and all that…:)

  78. LG
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    Wow, there is some serious ignorance on this thread. What part of equating homosexuality to foolishness, stupidity, weakness, etc do you NOT understand?

    Yes, the young use ‘gay’ as a synonym for all those things. And? That doesn’t make it right, and to say they’re using it in a manner divorced from any connection to homosexuality is simply wrong. They’re equating one with the other. There is no divorcing it, whether or not people can accept that, and what it says about those who use such words so thoughtlessly. That includes gay people who use the word pejoratively – ever hear of the concept of internalizing societal stigma? Somehow I don’t think people here would be quite so laissez-faire if the word being tossed about were ‘black’, ‘Asian’ or ‘female’. ‘Wow, that is so female!’

    I’ve been reading this blog since its earliest days, and in that time I’ve seen some things that have made my eyes pop out with how offensive they were, but they were isolated comments and didn’t seem to represent the views of a large group. All the people trying to defend the use of this word take the cake, however. NOT the best face to be showing all those non-book reading new fans you’re trying to get on board with the show.

  79. Critical Geek
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    Does “bleeding edge” have any offensive meaning in UK? It’s not even a double entendre in America, just means “latest and greatest, perhaps with a few bugs”

  80. mummer
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    LG,
    I didn’t want to encourage the total derailment of this thread, but it’s probably too late, so… I pretty much agree with you. Kids talked exactly the same way when I was in high school in the ’80s, and it was clearly a slur then; they weren’t gay-friendly in any way. If some kids are still talking that way now even though they’re more tolerant personally, that doesn’t make it inoffensive– just kind of ignorant. It’s pretty much like people of my grandparents’ generation who thought nothing of using old expressions with bigoted meanings (like using “jew” as a verb, to mean “cheat”) and didn’t understand why anyone would get upset about it, because they didn’t mean them in a bigoted way– it was just how everyone talked (or everyone they knew) when they were growing up.

    As for the chorus of people here claiming that if anyone is ever offended by a word then they must be weak, stupid, or a PC maniac… that just makes me think that those people either have had pretty limited life experience, or they don’t actually apply this principle in real life; or maybe they do follow it, but then they’re probably not very pleasant to be around. I mean, “If you don’t like my insulting language then it’s your problem, you thin-skinned moron” is the kind of thing you do hear a lot on the Internet, but only certain very special, unusually principled people will actually say it to anyone’s face.

    But, as far as what “all those non-book-reading new fans” will think– keep in mind, this is pretty much an unmoderated comment board. There’s no way such a thing can be around for long without attracting all kinds of people who sometimes make jerky remarks and start off-topic arguments, sometimes accidentally, sometimes not. I’m pretty sure anyone who spends time reading blogs is aware of that, and won’t think this is the official face of ASOIAF fans or whatever. Personally I prefer boards with a little bit more active moderation, but Winter doesn’t (and it’s not really a job I’d wish on anyone), so it is what it is.

  81. reedgirl
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    Ah, the Word Police… don’t swear, don’t use euphemisms, don’t be flippant, or candid, or insult anyone or anything in words meant to be offensive or in words not meant to be offensive, don’t act yourself, don’t imply, don’t NOT imply, don’t wipe your nose but mostly don’t SAY ANYTHING that hasn’t been through the lawyers first.

    Concern yourselves with intentional cruelty, not imagined cruelty.

  82. LG
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    mummer: LG,
    As for the chorus of people here claiming that if anyone is ever offended by a word then they must be weak, stupid, or a PC maniac… that just makes me think that those people either have had pretty limited life experience, or they don’t actually apply this principle in real life; or maybe they do follow it, but then they’re probably not very pleasant to be around. I mean, “If you don’t like my insulting language then it’s your problem, you thin-skinned moron” is the kind of thing you do hear a lot on the Internet, but only certain very special, unusually principled people will actually say it to anyone’s face.    

    I’m sorry to contribute to the thread derailment too, but this is all so wrong-headed I couldn’t keep silent anymore. What I’m seeing here is a whole crapload of heterosexual privilege, the majority telling a minority what they should and shouldn’t be offended by. It doesn’t work like that, folks. Minorities of whatever kind will tell YOU what we’re offended by, and it’s your job to take note, not tell us we’re wrong. Since there are plenty of efforts in existence to address how damaging language such as what Tena used can be (eg the ‘Think Before You Speak’ campaign by GLSEN), it’s fair to say that a LOT of LGBT people don’t find it to be so benign, no matter how common it is.

  83. Zack
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

    Seems like sometimes people look for an excuse to be offended.

  84. Zack
    Posted December 28, 2010 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

    By which I mean,

    LG: Wow, there is some serious ignorance on this thread. What part of equating homosexuality to foolishness, stupidity, weakness, etc do you NOT understand?

    Yes, the young use ‘gay’ as a synonym for all those things. And? That doesn’t make it right,

    I have a bad leg. “Lame” would be a word you could use for it. But I don’t throw a fit when people use it to mean “uncool” because *hint* they aren’t insulting me. I’m not egocentric. I’ll get offended when people are rude to me. Not when they’re taking a word that means one thing and using it in a different manner.

  85. Avalanche3319
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 12:03 am | Permalink

    If she admitted to being Bi in the first part of the interview does that give her a pass to use “Gay” as she wants? Kind of like how black people can use the “N” word to refer to each other without it being offensive? Just thinking out loud…

  86. mummer
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 12:26 am | Permalink

    Zack,
    That’s not really a great analogy, because the literal meaning of “lame” is already negative– I mean if you liked the way your leg worked, you wouldn’t call it a bad leg, right?– so if you call something “lame”, the metaphor still works even if you think people with bad legs are just fine. “Gay”, not so much.

    So yeah, I think you would be silly to take the common use of “lame” personally… but you know what, that’s really not for me to say. If you had grown up constantly being made fun of for your leg, and hearing other kids get mocked and insulted and threatened if anyone thought they might even secretly have a bad leg… and then we were hanging out and everyone was going on about lame this and lame that, and you said “Uh, guys… that’s actually kind of a sore spot for me, could you ease up on the ‘lame’?”… or even if a friend or family member of yours said that on behalf of you… I really, really hope I wouldn’t be such an asshole as to say “Why are you throwing a fit, you egocentric language policeman, get a thicker skin.”

    It’s really just about not being an asshole. You may notice that no one on this thread has been calling Natalie Tena a bigot or demanding an apology from her or saying they were outraged by that casual remark. I’m sure she’s a nice person, and I hear careless crap like that all the time and I don’t start fights about it. What really grates my cheese is when a dozen other people react to a reasonable mild complaint by getting on their own high horse and acting like they’re being oppressed (reedgirl: seriously, when’s the last time someone actually stopped you from swearing or being flippant?) because someone with absolutely no power over them suggested that something might be offensive… especially when most everyone here knows damn well that it’s very often meant to be offensive.

  87. Peltast
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    I don’t mind the off-topic discussions myself, it’s not like we’re going to have much news from now to the premiere (April?).

    Agree with K26dp, I have a friend who talks exactly like that, doesn’t mean she’s on coke.

    Tena seems like a bleeding cool person to hang out with. Can’t wait to see her Osha.

  88. Katja
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 4:03 am | Permalink

    paulgude,

    Lol, fair enough. No offence intended, but it was really annoying to have to plow through all that in the casting thread. Not so much to discuss here though so feel free to discuss insignificant details :D

  89. Katja
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 4:05 am | Permalink

    Tobias Wedin,

    No you should have a look at it (if you’re interested in the topic at least). The annoying bits aren’t nearly as overwhelming as here.

  90. paulgude
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 4:29 am | Permalink

    Katja,

    While I’m interested in the topics being discussed, I recognize this isn’t really the venue for it. Not saying that I don’t enjoy reading it, just that unlike my blog or twitter feed, there are a ton of people who didn’t come here to listen to my opinions on non-GOT issues. (Honestly, I know there are a ton of people who didn’t come here to listen to my GOT issues, either, but I have to draw the line somewhere.) I know it may not look like I’m restraining myself, but I’ve gotten a lot better at it.

    As far as the casting thread goes, people will be rehashing their old arguments again once Winter starts threads on the individual characters, so you’ll get your chance.

  91. Amir Mishali
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 4:43 am | Permalink

    Ned,

    The fact that more than a couple of posters say that she looks coked-up, at least means that Tena looks like someone on coke.

    This doesn’t mean that she is on coke, just that she, well, looks like someone on coke…

    I’m not sure why people get so offended here about these remarks, as I don’t think any of these remarks were judgmental, but simple observations.

  92. Katja
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    paulgude,

    I suppose this is part of the fun with these online communities. You get the strangest discussions, and all kinds of people involved in them. I bet you’re the type that gets really involved in it.

    I think my real complaint isn’t the off topic discussions themselved but the fact I can’t avoid them if I want to. Maybe a threaded system for comments would be a good idea. Was that something that was considered in the suggestions for improvements post a while back? Winter?

  93. rorschach-
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    So let me get this straight (no insult intented). Some people who are no way involved are getting insulted on behalf of some other, who probably don’t even care and even use the word themself. And all this because of a word that has meant “silly” and “cheerfull” for the last some 500 years before meaning sexual minority for couple of decades, and now has transformed again to a new meaning. Which is used by seemingly bi-sexual woman in a no way homophobical context… Seriously?

    Now I realize how politicians invent some stupid laws that are beyond anything one person could imagine.

    About Osha. All that talking with hands and the use of words and everything. Well suited for wildling. I’m actually kinda dissapointed that GRRM didn’t wrote much of her in the later books after doom of Winterfell. Maybe they will write some extra scenes for her. Fingers crossed.

  94. Steve the Pirate
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    I don’t think it makes her a bad person, or anything like that, but in the US, it is absolutely a negative thing to use “gay” in this context. I would hope that Tena has enough cultural awareness to avoid saying such a thing when she’s doing press in USA. Yes, political correctness can get annoying, but how would you feel if someone used the term that describes your orientation as a derogatory term?

    The reason that “gay” has been used a negative term is because of its connection with homosexuality. The word gay existed before it meant homosexual, true, but you can bet people didn’t use it as a negative term back then.

    I still think Natalie’s awesome, but I’d prefer it if she didn’t perpetuate the use of term in that context. The truth is, it matters, even those little moments when she didn’t mean any harm.

  95. Amir Mishali
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    I’m surprised “gaygate” hasn’t been mentioned yet…

    :-)

  96. Lynon
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    Okay, I know that this discussion has gone too far already, but I feel the need to chirp up again. I am a 20 year old londoner, meaning that I am familiar with the vocabulary of the youth of today in the UK.

    Before I go into the use of the word, I’d like to point out, although it was an interview (and Natalia probably should have had her politically correct hat on), it was clearly relaxed and conversational/chatty. The word slipped out because she wasn’t censoring herself and was simply talking to the interviewer like she would a friend or an acquaintance.

    Now for the word itself. When young people use the word gay in the way Natalia did, it has no relation to homosexuality. I admit that it originated from a negative view of homosexuality, but it is now a separate entity. I can tell you from personal experience that when I use it, I have not got the slightest thought of homosexuality in my mind.

    The word “gay” meaning homosexual, was possibly used itself as an insult to homosexuals, as they were perceived to all be camp and effeminate. I don’t know this for sure, and I have done absolutely no research on the subject, but this seems plausible to me.

    Anyhow, when I read the criticism going towards Natalia’s use of the word, I am just astounded. I would suggest that anyone feeling this way should go and listen to Bob Dylan’s “The times they are a-changin’”, in particular the verse:

    “Come mothers and fathers
    Throughout the land
    And don’t criticise
    What you can’t understand
    Your sons and your daughters
    Are beyond your command
    Your old road is
    Rapidly agin’
    Please get out of the new one
    If you can’t lend your hand
    For the times they are a-changin’.”

    Please don’t criticise what you don’t understand.

  97. Zack
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    mummer: What really grates my cheese is when a dozen other people react to a reasonable mild complaint by getting on their own high horse and acting like they’re being oppressed

    I don’t mean to say that I can’t empathize. And you’re right, it is a reasonable, mild, complaint. It’s just that it’s tiresome to see this coming from a mile away. “That guy” will inevitably show up in a forum anytime such an offhand remark appears–no matter how embedded in the lexicon the word or phrase used might be, disregarding any context. I think there was certainly a time for this battle, but it was lost years ago. The phrasing is out there, it means something different to others than it does to you, and you can either choose to police forums until the end of time (making bystanders suffer through the same arguments over & over) or you can accept that people are just changing the meaning of a word traditionally used to mock homosexuals. I’d think that ought to make homosexuals happy. See:

    Lynon: The word “gay” meaning homosexual, was possibly used itself as an insult to homosexuals, as they were perceived to all be camp and effeminate. I don’t know this for sure, and I have done absolutely no research on the subject, but this seems plausible to me.

    I’d guess it gained prominence for exactly this reason. I don’t know how many people saying “When I use the word I don’t associate it with homosexuality at all” it’s going to take before people move on. Language is fluid. Meanings change. I’m a big fan of looking for intent and context before deciding to be offended, and Tena clearly doesn’t mean homosexuals any offense. I wish people would pick their battles. Mel Gibson deserves your ire. Natalia Tena….I just don’t think so.

  98. Steve the Pirate
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    Lynon When young people use the word gay in the way Natalia did, it has no relation to homosexuality. I admit that it originated from a negative view of homosexuality, but it is now a separate entity.
    ”Please don’t criticise what you don’t understand.    

    The fact that you think using “gay” an insult has nothing to do with its connection to homosexuality shows clearly that you do not understand the word you’re using. You may not be homophobic, but using the word as an insult is completely rooted in sexuality.
    I lived in the deep south for a few years, and nice, friendly people would often use terms that involved the N-word, such as “n—– rigging” to fix up a broken window, for example. They meant no harm, and thought it was obvious that they weren’t racist- it was “just an expression they use.” Just because you don’t mean to harm, doesn’t mean you aren’t doing it.
    Alright, I’ll hop off the soapbox.

  99. Lynon
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    Steve the Pirate,

    No, you clearly don’t understand the word I’m using. The word I’m using has moved away from sexuality, and is not an insult directed at homosexuals. Sure it has its roots in homophobia, but a lot of words we use today have roots in places we don’t necessarily like, but are no longer directly associated with those discriminations. In an earlier post I pointed out two words,”lame” and “dumb” which could both be offensive, but people use freely on a day to day basis and the majority of the population don’t care about.

    The difference with the n-word, is that the word itself was and still is derogatory in its very nature. Calling a homosexual person gay is not insulting, but calling a black person the n word clearly is.

  100. Jon
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    Never posted here before but I’m a fan of Natalia as well as ASOIAF so I feel compelled to defend her. And I don’t want to take this further off topic, but, hey, I’m going to. Not sure whether it makes it better or not, but I think that this is an example of a playground jibe that’s just spread past childhood. Growing up in the UK, long before I understood what homosexuality was (or heterosexuality, for that matter) it was a totally acceptable playground insult to call one another “gay”. Now, you couldn’t really tag homophobia onto the name-callers, as they were 8 or 9 and really didn’t have a clue about any of the associations. As in the modern usage discussed at length above they just used it as being “lame”. They probably got it from their rather less than PC parents in the 70s and 80s who did actually use it as a slang term meaning camp or effeminate in a bad way – Dad puts on a flowery shirt and Mum says “that’s a bit gay, isn’t it?”. Kid doesn’t see any homosexual connotation, he just sees lame and so starts using the term at school. The word then just enters the common vernacular for kids and continued up with them into (young) adulthood. I think that in this way, from a shared root, the word has built up a parallel but completely unrelated meaning. Yes, it’s related to gay as in homosexual, this being it’s root, but (in my opinion) no, it has nothing to do with homosexuality in terms of it’s meaning.

  101. Rinoa De la Pica
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    I think I love Canada.

  102. Zack
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    Lynon: Steve the Pirate,
    No, you clearly don’t understand the word I’m using. The word I’m using has moved away from sexuality, and is not an insult directed at homosexuals. Sure it has its roots in homophobia, but a lot of words we use today have roots in places we don’t necessarily like, but are no longer directly associated with those discriminations. In an earlier post I pointed out two words,”lame” and “dumb” which could both be offensive, but people use freely on a day to day basis and the majority of the population don’t care about.The difference with the n-word, is that the word itself was and still is derogatory in its very nature. Calling a homosexual person gay is not insulting, but calling a black person the n word clearly is.    

    “Gay” as a word did not come into existence because of homosexuals. That’s an important distinction.

  103. Steve the Pirate
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Lynon: Steve the Pirate,
    No, you clearly don’t understand the word I’m using. .    

    The word you are using is “gay.” You don’t get to make up definitions. Twisting the word “gay” into an insult will never be a nice or acceptable thing.

  104. Lynon
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    Steve the Pirate,

    I didn’t make up the new definition, society did. The same way it made up the definition meaning homosexual.

    Also, using the word gay as in “lame” is well on its way to being acceptable. The truth of the matter is that this new definition is one used by the youth of today, and unless the apocalypse is coming, the youth of today will outlive those older than them, who have a different concept of the word gay. This is the same way the “homosexual” definition of the word has come to more prominence than the “happy” meaning of gay.

  105. Steve the Pirate
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    “Gay” as “lame” is most certainly NOT on its way to being acceptable. If you used it as such in the last place I worked, you would get a strong talking to from management, if not fired outright. I know things are different in the UK, but in the US, “Gay” as an insult is on its way out, thankfully.

  106. ben
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    For the love of God, stop using the word “lame” in this context because lame people will be offended.

  107. Titus Crow
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    Steve the Pirate,

    What is so hard to understand about the evoloution of language? Do you know that to have a “fag” means to smoke a cigarette? Gay did not mean homosexual in the past. Language is a living thing and what is offensive at one time may not be offensive in another. Mr. Martin makes use of the term “niggardly” more than once in the books. Does that make him a racist? Hardly. So in this sense she mentions wanting to get back to reading the books and says “I know that’s gay”. In this context there is no homophobic undertone. Just as you have the right to be offended others also have the right to use whatever language they want. It’s not used in an insulting or offensive context so it’s fair game to me.

  108. Lynon
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Steve the Pirate,

    Sure it’s not on its way to being acceptable in a work place, but a lot of things aren’t acceptable in environments where political correctness is stepped up a notch in relation to society in general. If a politician were to use it in a negative way, it would possibly be the end of their career (Silvio Berlusconi aside). However, it is fully acceptable in social situations (amongst young people). The point is that being offended by a definition of the word doesn’t stop it being used, so you’d probably be a happier person if you just accepted it for what it is; a synonym for lame commonly used by young people. Young people don’t mean any homophobic harm by it when they use it the way Natalia did. This newer definition of the word gay may or may not be here to stay, but it’s lasted longer than most slang words, and it will be around for the foreseeable future.

  109. Steve the Pirate
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    I know that Natalie meant no harm, which is why it doesn’t affect my feelings about her as an actress or a person. I realize, again, that the UK has different views on some slang words than the US.

    As for you, Titus Crow, the word “niggardly” has no relation the infamous N-word. Not one bit. It’s an unfortunate coincidence that the words sound alike. Google it if you don’t believe me. I am aware that “fag” in the UK means cigarette but if you use the word in the US, it does not mean that and it would be inappropriate to use the word in any company.

  110. Lynon
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    Steve the Pirate,

    Well it’s good to find that we share some common ground on this subject, and you’ve mentioned what I think is one of the keys here; there are different understandings of the word in the US and in the UK. Natalia comes from the UK, and so uses the word in one way, but the majority of the readership of this website is from the US, so I guess something may have been lost in translation.

  111. Zack
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Steve the Pirate: “Gay” as “lame” is most certainly NOT on its way to being acceptable. If you used it as such in the last place I worked, you would get a strong talking to from management, if not fired outright. I know things are different in the UK, but in the US, “Gay” as an insult is on its way out, thankfully.    

    Surely you’re not suggesting that workplace appropriateness is what determines whether word usage is “in” or “out.” There are quite a few commonly-used slang terms that would not fly in a professional environment–which doesn’t imply that such terms are on borrowed time.

  112. Adrian
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    It’s absolutely astonishing how vigorously and frequently people go out of their way to be offended on behalf of others. And over a WORD, no less. This would be different if she had mentioned that after the interview she was gonna go blow a few more rails and call her redneck American friends for a good ol’ fashioned fag drag. But no. She used a word in a way that is, at least in terms of vernacular, completely legitimate. Calling someone a douche does not mean they are a literal douche. Calling someone an asshole doesn’t make them a literal asshole. Really, all this righteous indignation on behalf of others is tiresome and dangerous in terms of people being able to express themselves. Free speech and all.

    I can already hear the wheels turning in some of your heads…”But Adrian,” you’ll say, “that word is dangerous and offensive!” No it isn’t. People being ridiculously hypersensitive is dangerous because it makes people afraid to speak without being branded a racist or a homophobe or a redneck or a fascist or whatever, and therefore unable to be taken seriously by those of us….”enlightened” enough as to be “above” the use of whatever word we’re currently crying about.

    Now I’m no Christian but I find the message “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone,” to be a wonderful life lesson. So please, by all means, if you’re so high and mighty and, indeed, ABOVE such slang and thoughts in all aspects of your everyday life, now and forever, continue with your ridiculous self righteous indignation.

    I hate the internet.

  113. mummer
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Zack: …you can accept that people are just changing the meaning of a word traditionally used to mock homosexuals. I’d think that ought to make homosexuals happy.

    I’d like to print that out and frame it as a jaw-droppingly perfect example of… I’m not sure what to call it, but I sure do see a lot of it on the Internet. And I remain convinced that you wouldn’t say that to someone’s face in real life, because it’d be obvious how amazingly condescending it sounds.

    I’m sorry you find it tiresome and annoying to see people mildly complaining about a usage you think is swell. You just might want to consider, before you write them all off as loons, that it might be because that usage is still very widely considered to be offensive. Not by you, maybe not by your friends, but you’re not the only ones who matter, and in this area you just really don’t know what you’re talking about.

    If my grandma’s usage of “jew” as a verb (meaning “cheat”) had continued to this day, would you be telling Jewish people that they should be happy to see it acquire that definition? See, “Jew” itself isn’t a pejorative word; “gay” doesn’t have to be either, and in fact people put in a lot of effort 40 years ago to make that possible. But if you let the common meaning become pejorative (or, for “gay”, become pejorative again), that’s not “redefining” or “reclaiming” in any positive way; it’s the exact opposite. It means that people had a perfectly good word they could use to describe themselves, but some other people decided on their behalf that it’d be more fun to use it as an insult for everything under the sun.

    That you and others here don’t understand this, and yet keep going on about language evolution, makes me think that you haven’t spent two seconds thinking about this stuff before, but have just vaguely heard of the argument and liked the idea that if you ever offend someone then it must be their fault.

    I’m done with this. Have fun.

  114. paulgude
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    Adrian,

    This is a discussion that is by no means over on the academic level, and I doubt we’re going to solve these issues on a site dedicated to the conversion of a fantasy series to a TV show. Still, in an attempt to clear up this sticking point without wholly entering the debate:

    It would help if both sides of this argument would acknowledge that this discussion would be completely unnecessary if the word some find offensive were *not* commonplace.

    I don’t have to say, “Hey, don’t say ‘that shirt is totally cancer-ridden,’ because my mom died of brain cancer.” No one says it. In order for this debate to even take place, people HAVE to think there’s nothing wrong with using the word the other folks find offensive. It’s a chosen battle, and it’s an uphill battle. Changing established language is not easy, especially when you’re asking people to do it because it may offend someone.

    Basically, we can all see that “lame,” “dumb,” “gay,” and “retarded,” all kind of mean the same thing in current English slang. We can also see that they all passed through a stage of describing a group separate from and often derided by mainstream society before they were applied to objects.

    The crux of this argument is that some are saying that the words have evolved out of these connotations, while others say that the old meanings still have impact.

    To bring this around full circle and try to tie the current discussion with the clip above, I think most of the folks on this thread would agree that Tena is not intentionally trying to marginalize homosexuals by saying that she “knows it sounds gay” that she enjoys reading the book.

    Those who have an issue with it are saying that it’s a charged usage because gay=bad happened first when it was applied to people, precisely because of the evolution of the word. I think those types of issues go deeper than who Tena is as a person. If she were here to participate in the discussion, I’m sure her opinions would be interesting as well.

  115. Zack
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    paulgude,

    Thank you for that post. I think that’s the best summation of the situation I could imagine. I’m not in favor of PC censorship because so much of the best literature, music, films and art is so very not-PC. Dealing with controversial subjects is something I love to see a skillful artist attempt. But I do agree with paulgude, that perhaps it would be best if these charged terms were not commonplace, per se.

    mummer, apologies. Truly. I did not mean to imply anything other than my response to the fact the meaning of the word is shifting away from homosexuals–again, if we began asking people their thought-process behind the usage of the term I suspect in the vast majority of cases, sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. Which is what “it should make them happy” referred to. Clumsily expressed, no doubt. Whereas “Jew” always referred to the same group, and thus its usage as a verb is never appropriate.

    I think I feel the way about the word “fag” that you do about the word “gay.” The former still retains most of its orientation-based status as an insult in the vernacular that “gay” doesn’t even approach anymore.

  116. OldGran
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    I believe the term Gay was adopted because it was less offensive than the terms in popular use at the time, ie: fag, queer. It was because Gay meant happy,carefree that it became the preferable term. I always thought it a poignant choice, though many homosexuals put forth a “happy face’ to the world there is very often pain and sorrow underneath. Just thinking about the homosexuals I have known,none were/are overtly flamboyant. (no sequins or feather boas). The only one who was funny and outgoing worked as on OR tech at the hospital. He wore scrubs to work,except on Halloween when he would come in as Klinger, it was the only time he could openly wear a dress to work! He was poking fun at himself. I say was because he is gone now. Aids.
    One of my best childhood friends grew up to be a physician, died way too young when he had so much left to give. He died early on when we hardly knew what Aids or HIV was.
    Others have thankfully avoided HIV/AIDs but spent many years estranged from family. The son of a good friend has only recently been reunited with his parents and brother and sister.
    Which is to say “Gay” is as good a term as any, better than some. Nothing is ever easy.

  117. mummer
    Posted December 29, 2010 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    I promise I’m not arguing any more (though I really appreciate what paulgude just wrote), but I can’t resist being an etymology nerd:

    OldGran,
    I think the consensus is that it’s a little more complicated than that. The Wikipedia article on the word has a pretty thorough summary of past usage. Basically, the connotation of “carefree” was always there, but it also has a long, long history as a euphemism for supposedly improper behavior of various kinds… although it was still obscure enough that it was mostly used in a “wink wink, maybe you know what I mean and maybe you don’t” way until the ’60s-’70s. At that time there was an organized effort to promote the word in the mainstream, as an alternative to other terms that were seen as more negative. But it became more commonly used as an insult at the same time– not surprisingly, since more people now knew the meaning, and since a lot of people still saw the gay pride movement as something bad.

  118. LG
    Posted December 30, 2010 at 12:29 am | Permalink

    An excerpt from the campaign statement of Think Before You Speak
    http://www.thinkb4youspeak.com/TheCampaign/

    Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) teens experience homophobic remarks and harassment throughout the school day, creating an atmosphere where they feel disrespected, unwanted and unsafe. Homophobic remarks such as “that’s so gay” are the most commonly heard; these slurs are often unintentional and a common part of teens’ vernacular. Most do not recognize the consequences, but the casual use of this language often carries over into more overt harassment.

    Go tell all those dead gay kids who have been in the news lately for committing suicide that using ‘gay’ as a negative descriptor is meaningless and utterly divorced from homosexuality and homophobia. Because, you know, language evolves.

    paulgude, I appreciate your thoughtful post. And now, like Mummer (sort of), I’m done.

  119. Zack
    Posted December 30, 2010 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    LG: Go tell all those dead gay kids who have been in the news lately for committing suicide that using ‘gay’ as a negative descriptor is meaningless and utterly divorced from homosexuality and homophobia. Because, you know, language evolves.

    I’d prefer to let Tena do that. Since, you know, she’s bi. Maybe a self-hating one?

  120. Tysnow
    Posted December 30, 2010 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    I really like this Tena, she would be a blast to hang out with, very wicked girl. Looks to me that HBO has privately greenlit a second (hopefully third since they reserved Painthall for 3 years).
    The information I have garnered from all the clips, interviews and data coming out of N.I. is that all the actors and crew have absolutely embraced Games with love and passion and are throwing everything into their work, which explains the early wrap, because when people enjoy their work they finish early and have thrown their best effort into it. I believe this TLC will show when the series premieres.

  121. Lali
    Posted January 1, 2011 at 1:30 am | Permalink

    She speaks spanish. I love her.

  1. [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Chad Harris, Winter Is Coming. Winter Is Coming said: New post: Tena talks Thrones http://bit.ly/iiISMK #GameofThrones [...]


  • Recent Comments

  • Archives

    • 2014 (810)
    • 2013 (679)
    • 2012 (550)
    • 2011 (512)
    • 2010 (309)
    • 2009 (174)
    • 2008 (47)
  •