Why HBO should greenlight Season Two NOW
By Fire And Blood on in Editorial.

As the countdown clock approaches the appointed day and hour, we remain astir with restlessness. Not for any toll or tidings of doom, no; we stalwarts of House Gatewatch have excited hearts and emboldened spirits brought on by glad missives, word that our show is of a quality that might please even the most hardened, cynical soul. Critics already agree: Game of Thrones is the bees knees.

It is with eager anticipation that we await that balmy eve in mid-April, not trepidation. We fear no clocks; the timepiece ticks, ticks, ticks, though it does not toll our doom. No, if this is an Armageddon Clock, it sounds in the deep for those sycophants who might seek to steal our light, be it by their shadowy silhouette on the selected solstice or by their very structure, hoping to see some semblance of success simply by seeming to be similar.

We are not afraid. Come at us from the sin-filled back halls of the Vatican, or from once-proud Camelot, now overgrown with weeds, or from prim and petulant Wisteria Lane. We take all comers here at House Gatewatch. Our swords are bigger than yours, and they’ve been sharpened by grumpkins and snarks.

In plainer words, we’re ready to kick the asses of anything that thinks it’s our competition.

If there is any clock we need to concern ourselves with, it is the one that ticks toward season two. A Clash of Kings is coming. It frickin’ has to be. I can’t see what would prevent it. But when will HBO give us the GO? I should think sooner is better than later.

To help spur them along, I, your Fanglorious FaBihoff, have compiled more than a few reasons why HBO needs to give considerable thought to greenlighting season two ASAP. And here they are…

(Seacrest says) … after the break:

Note: Clearly this article is about A Clash of Kings. THERE ARE ACOK SPOILERS HERE. Go read A Clash of Kings. And then come back and tell us what you think. Please.

1. The kids won’t always be kids. They grow up. They grow tall. They grow boobs. (Hopefully only the girls.) It happens, and television has ways of dealing with that. Indeed, one of the advantages of this show is that it takes place over chunks of time, and seeing a 4′ 9″ Arya become a 5′ 3″ Arya isn’t such an issue so long as we can be reasonably certain some length of time has passed.

Some shows (foolishly) attempt to switch actors, seeking to remain “forever young” in their casting, but that sort of hoax won’t fool this fandom; we’re happy with the choices, and many of these actors already feel like part of the family. So the best option is to catch them while you can. Shoot them this summer, this autumn. Get the other details out of the way now so that there’s nothing keeping anyone from rolling cameras. (At the very least do it for Kristian Nairn’s back. A 200-pound Isaac Hempstead-Wright would prove problematic for anyone.)

2. Good old-fashioned pride. HBO has made its mark through excellence. There’s a reason shows such as Deadwood and The Wire and The Sopranos are still hailed as some of the best television anyone has seen, and no one ever asks “What channel was that on?” It is known. By all accounts Game of Thrones continues in that tradition of excellence. Sure, I may have talked a little Borgias smack, but the truth is this series will not live or die on ratings alone. Even subscriptions—gained or lost—should not be the ultimate deciding factor.

Were I HBO, I would not wait for numbers. (I probably sound like a huckster, I know, but hear me out.) There is widespread acknowledgment that HBO erred in pulling up their tent stakes too soon where Rome was concerned; the BBC pulled out and HBO got spooked. The truth is, DVD sales of Rome could have paid for much of season three, and perhaps beyond, and no one buys DVDs like the sci-fi / fantasy crowd. Hell, I didn’t watch The Wire or Deadwood or Rome until they each came in a neatly boxed package. And I had HBO at the time. I’m literally the target demographic for this argument.

Even if initial ratings are tepid, word of mouth—by fans, by critics, by proboscis monkeys howling from palm trees—should stir an exponential interest in the badassery that is our beloved story. The cream always rises to the top, and the only regret greater than lost art is lost revenue. They need to give it a chance to do just that; ours is not A Limerick of Ice and Fire! If you build it, they will come.

3. Cutting the Edge. HBO doesn’t shy away from the stuff that will shock the senses. Game of Thrones’ second season does more than push the envelope—it beats on it with an axe. Grand Maester Pycelle gets pulled from his bed, naked, and gets his beard hacked off by Shagga; he’s so frightened for his life he pisses all over the room. Joffrey proves himself to be a bottomless well of douchebaggery by having the Kingsguard strip Sansa naked in the middle of a hall and beat her bloody. This isn’t a grown woman we’re talking about, but a young girl played by a young girl. Knowing it will be filmed as safely as you can imagine doesn’t remove the fact that it will have mothers and fathers across the world averting their eyes and then screaming bloody murder at their television sets. The Mountain does his bloody work and his men follow suit; the Tickler is going to give people nightmares. Lommy Greenhands (“You have to carry me”) gets a spear through the throat. And freakin’… Harrenhal, man!

The shocking things that happened in season one are only a brief taste of the stuff that happens in season two. (And don’t get me started on season three. Dear lord…)

If it’s not titillation or shock that convinces you, it should simply be the fact that we’re going to be able to see some of the best actors in what may be their defining roles going toe-to-toe with one another over the course of a television season. Tyrion vs. Cersei is Dinklage vs. Headey. Lock ‘em up for this war of wits. Do it now. ‘Nuff said.

If none of that convinces you, I offer five scenes that Game of Thrones fans would kill to see on the television screen. Just imagine these:

The Kingslayer’s Escape:

A Poisoner, a Murderer, a Mummer and a Thief slip through the shadows of Riverrun’s high halls. Jaime Lannister is found locked away in a well-appointed but heavily-guarded room. A brief distraction is all that is needed for the Thief to free the Kingslayer. Once he has a sword in hand, Jaime Lannister is a fury to behold; he cuts his way to freedom leaving Riverrun men dead and bleeding in his wake. He rushes with his liberators down toward the hunter’s gate. The Mummer calls for the gate to be opened using Edmure Tully’s command. It opens … but there beyond stands Edmure Tully himself and a host of Riverrun guardsmen waiting for them. Jaime curses and charges…

The Ghost of Harrenhal:

Arya speaks quietly with Jaqen H’ghar in the shadowy hush of a long-forgotten godswood. The Faceless Man would have the last of three names from her. “Speak the name, and death will come,” he promises. “At the morning, at the turn of the moon, a year from this day, it will come.” Jaqen kneels before her. “A girl whispers if she fears to speak aloud. Whisper it now. Is it Joffrey?” We are close on Arya’s lips as she whispers one name into Jaqen’s ear: “It’s Jaqen H’ghar…”

Prince Theon of Winterfell:

Theon Greyjoy wanders the dark halls of Winterfell as the ghosts of his misdeeds and betrayals play haunting tricks on his mind. The children Theon killed (Bran and Rickon, or so we think) and even three of his own men—murdered by Theon’s hand even if we do not yet understand why—come in gruesome flashes of memory. No death is easy; even Farlen mocked him, saying, “M’Lord Eddard always did his own killing,” as the kennelmaster was laid upon a block. He forced Theon to wield the axe himself. That memory is the messiest. And then Reek stands before him. “My lord prince,” Reek says, smiling. “Your sister has come to Winterfell…”

Wildfire on the Blackwater:

Blackwater Bay is choked with ships as the assault on King’s Landing is now in full fray. Davos Seaworth captains Black Betha as he watches Swordfish bear down to ram a fat cog seemingly wallowing in the weight of its cargo, easy pickings in an overwhelming assault. Too late, Davos notices the green liquid leaking out from the cog’s hold—and Swordfish does not. None of the crew can hear Davos’s scream. Swordfish and its spiked ram splits the cog in two. WHOOOOOM! Green fire fills the air, lighting the night to emerald day. “About!” Davos commands, frantic, trying to turn his ship around in the face of certain death, even as other ships are caught in the inferno. And that is when he notices the great chain slowly rising from the waters behind them…

The Betrayal of Jon Snow:

Jon stands with his back to Quorin Halfhand as the wind whips ice and snow across the trenched crags beyond Skirling Pass. Ygritte and the other wildlings crouch in a half circle, watching with wide-eyed interest. Rattleshirt snarls, “Kill the Halfhand, bastard!” Quorin replies, “As if he could.” He draws his own blade. “Turn, Snow, and die.” Jon turns and is barely able to parry Quorin’s first thrust…

And more. More, more, more. Some people simply consider A Clash of Kings to be a stepping stone to A Storm of Swords. But it’s great storytelling all its own.

Lock it up, HBO. Lock it up!

GoT fans, help me out and show us some of the scenes from season two of Game of Thrones that you’re dying to see. Even if we didn’t see them happen “onscreen” in the book … the magic can happen here. Always support the bottom! Gimme some of your favorite scenes! Go!


246 Comments

  1. Tar Kidho
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 2:48 am | Permalink

    My fovourite scene not directly shown in book 2 would be House Gatewatch that gets involved in Season Two as one of the main competitors for the Iron Throne ;-)

  2. More Rice Cooks
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 2:53 am | Permalink

    IMO GoT would have to be a bomb of epic proportions for the show not to at least get a second season. I’m more worried about season three and beyond.

  3. Lex
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 2:54 am | Permalink

    Ack! I misread the title, and thought the greenlight was a go. Almost had a heart attack!

    Anyways, I agree 100%. I think it’s important to film a 2nd and 3rd season while the kids look youngish. Arya, especially. It may be nitpicking, but I already wish she looked a year or two younger in Season 1. Her youth adds to the power of her story. A young Arya in Harrenhall will be much more powerful than a teenage one.

    Also, won’t anyone think of poor Kristian Nairn? Isaac/Bran won’t be getting any lighter…

  4. Phantomwriter05
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:13 am | Permalink

    “The Dinkledge” vs. Headey FTW!!

    Yeah there is alot of interesting things about COK that would make amazing T.V.

    I hope we get to see some of Robb’s invasion of the Lannisters lands and how he met and fell in love with Jayne Westerling.

  5. m4st4
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:16 am | Permalink

    Blackwater Bay and Cersei Vs. Tyrion. The first one is the greatest battle I have not seen on the big screen, the second one is pure joy!

  6. Keaton
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:18 am | Permalink

    Let’s hope for an early renewal a couple episodes into the season, just as HBO did with Treme and Boardwalk Empire.

  7. Polymeron
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:29 am | Permalink

    The concern networks have for greenlighting is not simply whether or not a series will be profitable (in either the short or the long run); but rather whether or not it would be MORE profitable than whatever else they can put in its slot. A lukewarm reception might not make them think they’ll lose money, but they could start to get tempted by upcoming new shows waiting to be made.

    Though Thrones is clearly the most exciting story that there is to tell out there… I don’t see how anyone could not greenlight a second season and still live with themselves.

    I think possibly the notion of filming the battle on the Blackwater gives them nightmares. Let’s not forget how big Martin wrote this story…

  8. morgane
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:35 am | Permalink

    gendry and arya’s scene ^^

  9. Izmaglica
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:44 am | Permalink

    You go tell ‘em, Winter! HBO, you better listen to this wise man, or else you’ll get one hot weasel soup! :)

  10. Lex
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:55 am | Permalink

    Izmaglica,

    Winter is wise, but this wise post was written by Fire and Blood. ;)

  11. heck yea
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 4:29 am | Permalink

    heck yea lock it up baby

  12. Dan Mulhern
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 4:30 am | Permalink

    It’s definitely not definitive, but this variety article has an interesting line:

    With HBO now gearing up for a second season of “Game of Thrones,” the Paint Hall looks set to be fully occupied for the foreseeable future. NIS is pushing ahead with plans to build two new soundstages alongside this summer, so there will be a suitable space to attract smaller-scale productions as well.

  13. Izmaglica
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 4:33 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    Oh, I’m sorry for my mistake. Someone please stripe one link from my maester’s link. :)

    You go tell ‘em, Fire! HBO, you better listen to this wise man, or else you’ll get one hot weasel soup! Better now? :)

  14. sjwenings
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:05 am | Permalink

    Tyrion and Cersei will deliver many memorable scenes.

    Tyrions warning about what happens if she smacks him a third? time. One might argue that he deserved some of those smacks, though – like when he asks her something along the lines of “since you enjoy brotherly love so much, how about you try out a smaller one for size?” *smack* and, ofcourse the third smack does happen, with it’s consequences.

    At the news of Stannis going after Renly, rather than Kings landing – Cersei picks up Tyrion and swings him around, and for a brief moment, they are both happy, smiling at each other. Lovely little scene there, though i guess the happiness was mostly about the moment rather than any actual love for each other.

    Don’t remember the exact reason, but in order to get some kind of advantage, Tyrion threatens to…. Rape Joffrey! And Cersei believes he’ll do it. It’s a bluff, but still.

  15. Ser Andrew Chair
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:11 am | Permalink

    It’s been awhile since I’ve read, well listened, to the second book, but I would like to see some more of Robb’s campaigning in the Westerland’s or of Robb in general, mainly because we don’t see much of him at all except through his mothers eyes and I would like less of her judging him for me. Then there’s Harrenhal and all its crooked glory that I would like to see because there are times when my imagination goes crazy but its hard to imagine a castle that huge, and for season three the biggest thing I want to see is the Red Wedding, not to take away for anything else its just that this would be the most visually striking and mind blowinv thing on TV for the last decade or maybe even longer.

  16. Liesie
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:15 am | Permalink

    It’s not helping if I say that I want to see everything, right….. No I thought so already ;-)

    So I think I’ll just add a Dany scene on the list, since she hasn’t been named as of yet:
    The House of the undying! I think it will be a very weird but interesting (read: awesome!) scene with all the visions and stuff and of course the Undying themselves

  17. Pablo Jainaga
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:15 am | Permalink

    Polymeron,

    Well, in Rome the filming of the battle of Farsalia was not much of a nightmare… They just hit the “autorresolve battle” button (Total War fans know what I’m talking about lol). And Rome had a bigger budget, so we shouldn’t expect a Pearl Harbourish battle at Blackwater.

  18. Jordan Healey
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    Don’t forget Renly’s peach.

  19. Sawyer
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    Definetely the scene with the Hound in Sansa’s room, saying/singing goodbye!.

    And of course Dany’s dragons.

  20. Iggy
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    I remember reading somewhere that the producers said that even if they greenlight season 2 they probably won’t be filming scenes like the blackwater battle due to budget concerns. They would probably just film scenes in the aftermath of the battle and have characters talk about it… :(

    A couple of quick flashbacks from Tyrions POV, maybe?

  21. Jenny
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    Dragonstone – The Ultimate CGI wet dream and in it, Melisandre!!
    That will make a prime and primal intro to GoT 2/1

    Also, the wholesomeness of the Tyrells!

    Mmmmmmmh

  22. Ax0r
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    The Battle of the Blackwater could be done very well, if the CG people get enough time to do it right. We know that any project can be done cheaply/expensively, poorly/well, and slow/fast. 2 of those can be positive, but not all three.

    If HBO green light now and get their act together, The CG team could have more than a year to build that sequence, for not much money, and still have it looking excellent.

    I’d agree with FaB though, the number one reason to get cracking is the kids. They need to still look like kids for the next couple seasons

  23. ruru
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    I want to see the shadow ‘birth’ scene. It’s so WTF, it needs to be filmed

  24. sjwenings
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    Ax0r: The Battle of the Blackwater could be done very well, if the CG people get enough time to do it right.

    Agreed. If BBC can do it for a documentary, then so can HBO for GOT.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlEpJSwb7v4&feature=related

    About 1.30 in, theres a relatively impressive battle scene.

  25. KG
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 7:25 am | Permalink

    Just go down to Cleveland, slap a green filter on the camera, and set the Cuyahoga River on fire again.

    Done.

    (Detroiter here. We will never let Cleveland live that down.)

  26. Kingthlayer
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Ser Andrew Chair,

    I would also like to see more of Robb but I wonder how many Robb scenes they’ll have to “manufacture”. I’m sure they’ll have GRRM sign off but it’s a tad concerning, knowing that they’ll want to endear Robb to fans as much as possible before season 3. I also wonder about Jamie as his role is definitely lesser in book two than it is in book 1 & 3 & 4. He will be a fan favorite so they’re probably going to try to stuff him in there whenever they can. Thoughts?

  27. William Aaron Grandy
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    Never understood why we got a Lommy and Hot Pie cast anyways, since they don’t come into the story until Clash. Arya’s story ends with the execution of Ned and her capture by Yoren. Remember that scene when the knife descends? I honestly thought she was getting killed as well, not just getting a hair cut :) Either way, those 2 boys don’t come into play until the next book, and so far as I can see, they are the only characters cast that should not play a role in season 1 unless HBO alter events somehow… Maybe Arya will meet them in KL before the execution?

  28. Johan Sporre
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    Greenlight now and assign budget later, when they know more about ratings and such. If it’s a success they may make Blackwater as it is depicted in the books.

  29. Petyr
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    I’d bet all the gold in Westeros the announcement of the second season pickup happens on April 18th. That’s how HBO rolls, I don’t think its realistic to expect anything different.

  30. sjwenings
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    Filming the Battle of the blackwater more or less as it should be, might pay for itself, when they release trailers before the start of season 2 and show clips from said battle. All the Woah!s and subsequent viewers they’ll get, just might be worth the extra dollars spent.

  31. Johan Sporre
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    Petyr:
    I’d bet all the gold in Westeros the announcement of the second season pickup happens on April 18th.That’s how HBO rolls, I don’t think its realistic to expect anything different.

    Could happen on the 4th as well, after the 15-min preview.

  32. sjwenings
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    Johan Sporre,

    If they wait until the 4th, i guess it’s like, why not wait till the 17th.

  33. Mezeh
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    We don’t need to worry about season 2. Unless starting of season one would show a complete disaster and this is not likely HBO would surely greenlight it.
    The reasons are simple – HBO is cable and their sources of income are different. They depend from number of subscribers and they wouldn’t know the effect of the season one until start of the season 2. There is also a serious matter of DVD sales as with “Rome” in the past. Since HBO need to start filming season 2 this summer they need to take a decision after just a few episodes of the show.
    And don’t forget that very successful “True blood” had a very modest start.
    This entire means that we will see at least two seasons.

  34. Two Feathers
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    The world is going to end in Dec. 2012. That give HBO just enough time to shoot , do the post production and air the full season…..valar morghulis!

  35. Abyss
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    Episode 4 is called “Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things”. Like!

  36. Pedro José Molina Fernández
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    William Aaron Grandy:
    Never understood why we got a Lommy and Hot Pie cast anyways, since they don’t come into the story until Clash. Arya’s story ends with the execution of Ned and her capture by Yoren. Remember that scene when the knife descends? I honestly thought she was getting killed as well, not just getting a hair cut Either way, those 2 boys don’t come into play until the next book, and so far as I can see, they are the only characters cast that should not play a role in season 1 unless HBO alter events somehow… Maybe Arya will meet them in KL before the execution?

    We already know that there is a scene from ACoK in this season. There is also an screencap where you can see “that” in the background.

  37. Mike Chair
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    … but even as she was feeling sorry for him she was killing him, shouting, “Winterfell! Winterfell! ” while Hot Pie screamed “Hot Pie! ” beside her as he hacked at the man’s scrawny neck.

    ACoK: Arya IV.

    Drama works best when it’s blended with comedy.

    Love the Swearengen reference.

    “What channel was that on?” It is known.

    Is is known.

  38. Mike
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    I want season two because it gets us that much closer to Season three, where I can see the reaction of the world to the most unexpected major scene in television history, the …… (censored myself on this one- but it begins with the initials R.W)

  39. sjwenings
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    Abyss: Episode 4 is called “Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things”. Like!

    Sounds cool. What what would “broken things” be, i wonder.

  40. feyrband
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    Mike,

    first time a book ever made me lose sleep.

    other than not being able to put one down, of course.

  41. Mike Chair
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    Extrapolating that Episode 4 is almost half way through, and with “bastards” in the plural, I can make an educated guess that Episode 4 will include Eddard IX when Eddard finds another one of Robert’s bastards, Barra, and later breaks his (Eddard’s) leg.

  42. Ax0r
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    sjwenings: Sounds cool. What what would “broken things” be, i wonder.

    “I have a tender spot in my heart for cripples, bastards,and broken things” is, I believe, a direct quote from the book, said by Tyrion to Bran (or perhaps maester Luwin? not sure)

  43. Nostro
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Whilst not seeing it in the books certainly made for dramatic suspense, I would really like to see the negotiations at Bitterbridge, in specific the Tyrells and how Loras is dealing with Renly’s death. Also Robb’s campaign in the west would be interesting to see as well as “Arstan’s” decision and subsequent journey to the east.

    As far as the second series (yes I’m British and this IS the correct word) goes, I wouldn’t be surprised if HBO has already given the green light to it and David and Dan are already writing away furiously. As we all know, the announcement of a second series is a sign that the company has faith and confidence in its show. This subsequently gives us, the public, reassurance that said show will be ace. Therefore, it wouldn’t surprise me to find out that the announcement will be part of the marketing for series 1 and that the reason we haven’t heard anything yet is because HBO’s marketing people will have a schedule and a good idea of the perfect time to announce it (a certain lull in GoT coverage perhaps?)

  44. Mike Chair
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Ax0r,

    Nice catch!

    Robb Stark seemed puzzled. “Is this some trap, Lannister? What’s Bran to you? Why should you want to help him?”

    “Your brother Jon asked it of me. And I have a tender spot in my heart for cripples and bastards and broken things.” Tyrion Lannister placed a hand over his heart and grinned.

    AGoT: Bran IV.

    Ax0r Supports the Bottom.

  45. Lina
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    1. The House of the Undying. This is one of the greatest passages in the books, and it appears to be extremely relevant to the overall plot of the series. If produced correctly, it could be one of the creepiest scenes on television. Imagine Dany looking through doors and seeing all the strange things she sees. Imagine if we get a third series and viewers learn that the random/weird man with a wolf head in Dany’s vision is actually Robb Stark! Plus, Rhaegar! And of course Drogon burning it to ashes!

    2. Arya on the run. With Gendry/Hotpie and then at Harrenhal. Arya really comes into her own in this book, and her scenes with Jaqen and with the weasel soup would be awesome.

    3. Tyrion. I can’t remember an exact scene, but one of the many when he just toys with Cersei’s head. The whole dynamic between the two of them.

    4. Bran and Rickon live! I’m not sure how they’d film the chapters in terms of chronology, but if viewers get attached to Bran/Winterfell as expected, and Theon is said to have killed him, but then he’s alive!

    5. Jon killing Qhorin. I feel like undercover missions are always well-received, especially if there’s some sort of poignant moment in establishing the undercover agent’s secret identity.

    And in terms of general reasons why they should start work on Season 2, I think the kids aging is the biggest. They can’t replace the actors (that just doesn’t go along with the quality of production on HBO), and the kids can’t be too old (lessens impact, Bran will be too big, etc.). So they need to get on filming!

  46. TC
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Boardwalk Empire officially was renewed right after the first episode. Of course the Boardwalk Empire series premiere episode also averaged 4.8 Million viewers, which bested every original series debut since Deadwood’s back in 2004.

  47. Ikertzeke
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    I have this wild idea, why not end season 2 with a movie?

  48. Inkasrain
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    It’s getting so that I can recognize FaB’s writing within a sentence. “… We remain astir with restlessness”– oh, he’s at it again.

  49. Omagus
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    FaBio makes a pretty convincing argument. And as much as I want all the books greenlighted as seasons immediately, I cannot entirely divorce myself of the years I’ve spent studying the film/television side of things.

    There’s no way in the world that HBO greenlights a second season before seeing how well the audience takes to the first one. That said, HBO is the best there is at making these decisions quickly. Both Treme and Boardwalk Empire were greenlighted for seconds seasons after just the premiere episode. With the type of marketing HBO has done for GOT, I imagine that they expect to do the same for it…as long as the ratings are there. So it’s just up to us. Let’s make sure we make the first episode one of the highest rated ever, and we’ll get our second season.

  50. Matthias
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    “Come at us from the sin-filled back halls of the Vatican…”
    WTF does that mean????

  51. Omagus
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Matthias,

    GOT will be airing in the same time slot as The Borgias on Showtime.

  52. John Engedal
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Matthias:
    “Come at us from the sin-filled back halls of the Vatican…”
    WTF does that mean????

    I believe he is talking about The Borgias, our “competition” :P

  53. Knurk
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Season 2 will give us Strong Belwas, that should be reason enough for HBO! (although he will shine more in season 3)

  54. Shinyteapot
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    Another reason is that if they do want a second series, there’s a fair bit of casting to be getting on with! And all the fun and games that entails :)

  55. Matthias
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    Nah Borgias are awesome!!! I won’t hear a word aganst them! I think that Cersei is just a baby compared to Lucrezia :)

  56. Nick
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    I firmly believe season 2 will be greenlit on April 18th even if the viewing figures are pretty poor, so I’m not particularly worried about them green lighting it now or not. It’s only 3 weeks til then and the kids ain’t going to age much in those 3 weeks. Surely production will start straight away (we already know some aspects of it have begun in anticipation of the greenlight).

    But there is one very good reason HBO shouldn’t and probably won’t give the greenlight before the first episode airs. If they do so, it will be unprecedented and will be reported by the usual news sources. If the numbers do come in poorly, it will give these same news sources the perfect opportunity for headlines like “HBO BITES OFF MORE THAN IT CAN CHEW WITH NEW FANTASY EPIC” or whatever, basically pointing out how HBO have made a miscalculation in their percieved popularity of the show. These sort of headlines themselves will hurt the viewing figures even further. We want positive headlines after the premiere, not the chance of negative ones

  57. Chris Thomas
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    One thing that stands out for me from A Clash of Kings was the character of Jaqen H’ Ghar! He is polite and always has a smile, yet he is a cold blooded killer and I always thought that was an interesting character. I’m doing what Joseph Campo (Get Joe on the show) has done to try to play the part of Jaqen H’Ghar! I’ve written down all of his dialogue from Clash and I have the smile down! I think a 17 year old can pull of Jaqen. Wish me luck everyone and I’ll let you know when I post the first vid! I’m currently waiting on a wig.

  58. Omagus
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    Nick:
    But there is one very good reason HBO shouldn’t and probably won’t give the greenlight before the first episode airs. If they do so, it will be unprecedented and will be reported by the usual news sources. If the numbers do come in poorly, it will give these same news sources the perfect opportunity for headlines like “HBO BITES OFF MORE THAN IT CAN CHEW WITH NEW FANTASY EPIC” or whatever, basically pointing out how HBO have made a miscalculation in their percieved popularity of the show. These sort of headlines themselves will hurt the viewing figures even further. We want positive headlines after the premiere, not the chance of negative ones

    It would also set a precedent that HBO certainly does not want. If they did this, going forward, other big-time productions would also want to have multiple seasons greenlighted prior to the airing of the first episode. No network can afford to do that.

  59. sjwenings
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Wow, would it suck if they did not greenlight it straight away. That would make for a few nervewrecking days/weeks.

  60. sareeta
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Love the article, F&B! You definitely have a way with words and I love how you worked Al Swearengen into it. Speaking of Swijjin’, any chance of hiring Ian McShane for Game of Thrones? The man was a genius in Deadwood…not so much in Pillars of the Earth (due to the writing and direction, not the actor). Given the right role (and one requiring liberal use of the F word), he would be a perfect addition.

    Most looking forward to all the new characters introduced in ACOK:
    -Stannis. I always found him to be fascinating from his appearance to his sense of duty. He’s like a harder, stricter Eddard.
    -Davos – I love his backstory, his relationship w/ Stannis, his participation in the battle
    -Asha – one of many awesome female characters and definitely my favorite Greyjoy. Plus Theon hitting on her not realizing who she is, lol
    -Brienne – what’s not to love about her?
    -Meera and Jojen – can’t wait to see who they cast in these roles.

    Most memorable scenes:
    -Theon killing Bran and Rickon OMG, I was so upset when I read that chapter.
    -House of the Undying
    -Arya’s journey, especially the revolt at Harrenhal

  61. Sleeky
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Pablo Jainaga:
    Polymeron,

    Well, in Rome the filming of the battle of Farsalia was not much of a nightmare… They just hit the “autorresolve battle” button (Total War fans know what I’m talking about lol). And Rome had a bigger budget, so we shouldn’t expect a Pearl Harbourish battle at Blackwater.

    I haven’t watched Rome (I know what’s stopping me?) but in the battle you reference, did it look something like this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNgDf5_pgBo

    God knows a BBC documentary show doesn’t get much of a budget either.

  62. OldGran
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    I want to see eggs hatch. I want to go to Edmure’s wedding. Iwant to see Sansa build a snow castle. I want to see Tyrion forge his chain. I want to see Jon and Ygritte. Yes, shadow babies too. ( This may take more than season two.)
    I want to see wolf dreams, and Arya improve her needlework. I want to see the Maid of Tarth.. and Jaime.
    OK, so I want it ALL

    AStB

  63. Alexander Dubrovsky
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Love the article, F&B! You definitely have a way with words and I love how you worked Al Swearengen into it. Speaking of Swijjin’, any chance of hiring Ian McShane for Game of Thrones? The man was a genius in Deadwood…not so much in Pillars of the Earth (due to the writing and direction, not the actor). Given the right role (and one requiring liberal use of the F word), he would be a perfect addition.

    Roose Bolton. Not many F words here, though …

  64. burth
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    I’m looking forwards to anything that features Theon, I think his arc in ACoK was one of the best (and most tragic) in the entire series so far. I know many people dislike him for what happens, but I could always understand his decisions based on the difficult situation he was in….

  65. Justin Dean Nelson
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    HBO will greenlight season 2 on April 18.

    Why does everyone see The Borgias and Camelot as our competition? Obviously, they suck. It’s not a surprise. Our real competition is AMC’s The Killing. Not in the numbers game, but the quality game.

  66. SJGIM
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    Agreed. Even if they can’t or won’t show the entire blackwater battle, at least show the flames engulfing a few ships, give Tyrion his victory. Most of that battle will probably be focused on the inside though, as there is so much going on with the POVs inside the keep. Just my guess. That was the most epic series of scenes for me.
    *unrelated: listening to GOT at full volume right now to drown out the rap playing right outside my dorm room window.* Ned is about to die :(

  67. Sleeky
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Oh. Speaking about marketing and how it might be dependent on how the premiere is received, is the first episode a 2-hr premiere?

  68. Mr. Donnerfaust
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

    Sleeky,

    Only the 1st episode will air on the 17th… i t will run 62 minutes

  69. George DW
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Sleeky,

    That’s really just a lot of extras, perhaps a group of reenactors. Someone else posted another BBC doc battle clip higher in the thread which looked a little more expensive- a lot of extras plus compositing to make it look like there’s even more.

    But the Blackwater isn’t going to require just people on horses with swords- the CG budget for all the ships, the wildfire, and the surrounding city would be pretty large.
    Bigger than Battlestar Galactica’s CG battle sequences, because you have to have a lot more detail on wooden ships than sleek spaceships, and you have to have lots and lots of people composited into it.

  70. The Rabbit
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Justin Dean Nelson,

    Why does everyone see The Borgias and Camelot as our competition? Obviously, they suck

    In its contnet, obviously ;)

  71. ducky
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Got to have a second season to even get a chance to see the third book filmed, which is my favorite……

    Woe! if this gets a second season but then gets canceled because the cost to continue is not justified by the profit made or something.

    I lost too many programs I loved over the years because they just weren’t profitable enough – I never forget now that TV is a business first, art second.

  72. Sleeky
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    George DW:
    Sleeky,

    That’s really just a lot of extras, perhaps a group of reenactors. Someone else posted another BBC doc battle clip higher in the thread which looked a little more expensive- a lot of extras plus compositing to make it look like there’s even more.

    But the Blackwater isn’t going to require just people on horses with swords- the CG budget for all the ships, the wildfire, and the surrounding city would be pretty large.
    Bigger than Battlestar Galactica’s CG battle sequences, because you have to have a lot more detail on wooden ships than sleek spaceships, and you have to have lots and lots of people composited into it.

    True. However I posted that link asking if this was how the series Rome did it’s battle sequences.

    But then I look at what was accomplished with another HBO endeavor John Adams. 2 1/2- 3 yrs ago.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTUs7hDq2PA

    I still think a battle on the black water can still be done. I imagine it would consist alot of distance shots like standing on the wall of the Red Keep, looking out a window, etc…

    One possibility is a soundstage with a mock-up of a wooden ship for scenes with Davos Seaworth standing on the bridge barking orders, with nothing but a green screen behind him. Then when he sees something interesting, cut to a “telescope shot” of fat Cog just sitting there in the middle of the bay for some reason.

    I think it can be done. We’ll have to see how the Battle of the Trident looks.

  73. Blueberry2
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    The Battle of the Blackwater and Dany in the House of the Undying would be spectacular on screen. Seeing how they pull off the battle on a reasonable budget will be interesting, and the spooky/trippy/prophetic House of the Unyding scene was always one of my favorite moments in the series.

  74. Jarmel
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    Season 2 is a lock. Ratings and subscription numbers will determine the budget of season 2 and if we get a season 3. The ratings will almost certainly not be as good as Boardwalk Empire but if they should be decent which will probably get TPTB to have a serious look at a season 3.

    Here is the major problem about rushing through the books. The books aren’t done yet. Even if Martin somehow gets back on track, he has maybe 5 to 6 years to write the next two books. He can almost certainly get Winds of Winter out in time but Dream of Spring almost certainly won’t be. So either we’re stuck waiting or get a tv ending(even though the producers have an idea on how Martinwill finish the series, ey don’t have details). So either way we’re screwed.

  75. Anvil
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    Sleeky,

    Sleeky: But then I look at what was accomplished with another HBO endeavor John Adams. 2 1/2- 3 yrs ago.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTUs7hDq2PA

    The budget for John Adams was around 100 million. With that amount of money you can actually show a lot of effect shots in a seven part Miniseries, but I agree, they have to show (at least some glimpses of) the battle on the black water or there will be not many – apart from the House of the Undying-sequence – highlights in the 2nd half of the season.

    Or they simply increase the budget. *wishful thinking*

  76. persephone88
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    I am looking forward to seeing the Prologue brought to life – it is such a creepy prologue, so many key characters introduced. Our first look at hard as stone Stannis, the dangerous Red Woman, poor Maester Cressen, and the creepiness of Patchface. That could be a really spooky opening to season two if filmed right, and all these new characters to expand the action!

    For me one of the key casting pieces will be Jaqen H’gar. Seeing him, Biter and Rorge in the wagon, and later on dealing with the Ghost in Harrenhal – that is probably the storyline I am most interested in following. My one worry – Gendry, and how they will use him amongst a band of mostly children.

    The other scene I cannot wait to see is Jaime and Catelyn in the cell and his awesome line when she degrades “men like him.” :)

    But really, I am even more excited for season THREE, and all those dastardly Freys. Would love to get a glimpse of Old Walder in a preview, before this season starts up!

  77. TargetDog
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Honestly, I have to say the lack of buzz for this show besides hardcore fans is worrying me… You look at some of the “April TV previews”, and some of them don’t even mention Game of Thrones at all, while mentioning Camelot, The Killing and Borgias. I can’t blame HBO for not jumping the gun, as there’s still a small chance of this show being an unmitigated disaster.

    I’m hoping it pulls in 3-4 million for the premiere, and stabilizes at 2.5 at least for the rest of the season

  78. Elena Amici
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    TargetDog,

    agree.
    actually, i’m worried…

  79. TC
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    Sleeky: True. However I posted that link asking if this was how the series Rome did it’s battle sequences.

    But then I look at what was accomplished with another HBO endeavor John Adams. 2 1/2- 3 yrs ago.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTUs7hDq2PA

    I still think a battle on the black water can still be done. I imagine it would consist alot of distance shots like standing on the wall of the Red Keep, looking out a window, etc…

    One possibility is a soundstage with a mock-up of a wooden ship for scenes with Davos Seaworth standing on the bridge barking orders, with nothing but a green screen behind him. Then when he sees something interesting, cut to a “telescope shot” of fat Cog just sitting there in the middle of the bay for some reason.

    I think it can be done.We’ll have to see how the Battle of the Trident looks.

    The John Adams CGI and special effects are exactly what I would hope to see for those scenes. However to answer your question about Rome, they did not show any of the major battles at all. The results were described in scenes similar to how many of Game of Thrones battles in the book are described by people who are telling the results to others who were not there or via a message delivered by a raven.

  80. mimi
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Why do I want season 2??? Because I love giving HBO/Comcast my money!!! (It’ll be SO worth it……..) No GoT, then no HBO………….simple.

  81. Pedro Dias Cardoso
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    Omagus,

    let’s turn on every tv we have avaliable with hbo and boooost the audience !!

    lol this might not work, but i’d feel like doing my part, heh !

  82. Pedro Dias Cardoso
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    persephone88,

    Lord Walder should appear on GOT, at a certain negotiation with Lady Stark back at those creepy TT

  83. Shinyteapot
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Off topic- thought of a game to keep us occupied until the final maester’s path challenge. If the characters were familiar with earth music, what would their favourite songs/appropriate songs for them be?

    e.g. Sansa- Love Story (Taylor Swift), Theon- Rock Star (Nickelback).

    In the future Tyrion- Wanted Dead or Alive (Bon Jovi)!

  84. John Engedal
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    If we´re talking ACOK, I really hope they do the opening the same way George did it, which I think was great, meeting all the characters, old and new, while intercutting with the red comet, and everyones views on what they think it means.

  85. Mormegil
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    Reasons for Season 2.

    New places to Visit
    Riverrun so we can complain about it not being in Season 1, Harenhal so we can complain how small it looks, Pyke so we can complain that it’s only on three stacks and not six*, Qarth so we can complain when they don’t have any camels.

    New People to meet
    Stannis – The Would be King that everybody likes.
    Melisandra – The Priestess who would not hurt a fly
    Davos- The guy who smells of onions.
    Craster – Devoted family man
    etc..

    Seriously the chances of not getting a Season 2 are pretty much zero.

    *I actually have no idea how many Stacks Pyke is actually built on.

  86. sjwenings
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Shinyteapot,

    Off the top of my head: Jon – Hammerfall, Take the black

  87. GaR
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Shinyteapot,

    Tywin – Rains of Castamere (as performed by Children of Bodom)
    Arya – Flash of the Blade (Iron Maiden)
    Cersei – Paranoid (Black Sabbath)
    Cressen – Man of Sorrows (Bruce Dickinson)
    Jaqen H’ghar – Ghost in the Machine (Blaze Bayley)
    Catelyn – Gone Away (The Offspring)

    It sure is a good thing I’m not in charge of scoring this series eh.

  88. GaR
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    Sandor – Raining Blood (Slayer)
    Tyrion – Genocide (The Offspring)
    Loras – Turbo Lover (Judas Priest)
    Stannis – Dark Bodies (Fear Factory)
    Melisandre – Bombtrack (Rage Against the Machine)
    Eddard – Hallowed be Thy Name (Iron Maiden)

    This is as fun as it is stupid :D

  89. Two Feathers
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    GaR: Shinyteapot, Tywin – Rains of Castamere (as performed by Children of Bodom)Arya – Flash of the Blade (Iron Maiden)Cersei – Paranoid (Black Sabbath)Cressen – Man of Sorrows (Bruce Dickinson)Jaqen H’ghar – Ghost in the Machine (Blaze Bayley)Catelyn – Gone Away (The Offspring)It sure is a good thing I’m not in charge of scoring this series eh.

    What do you mean dude …I think your choices truely ROCK!!

  90. Two Feathers
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Loras And Renly – Tailgunner.. Iron Maiden. LOL

  91. Nick Larter
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    William Aaron Grandy:
    Never understood why we got a Lommy and Hot Pie cast anyways, since they don’t come into the story until Clash. Arya’s story ends with the execution of Ned and her capture by Yoren. Remember that scene when the knife descends? I honestly thought she was getting killed as well, not just getting a hair cut Either way, those 2 boys don’t come into play until the next book, and so far as I can see, they are the only characters cast that should not play a role in season 1 unless HBO alter events somehow… Maybe Arya will meet them in KL before the execution?

    I was wondering the same – the alternative is that they move Arya’s story on a bit after the execution and don’t leave her on a cliffhanger at end of season 1

  92. purplejilly
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    Great post FaB!

    Here’s why HBO should greenlight season two now. AND season three & four. I’m not going out to the movies anymore. And most of my friends tell me the same thing. There just isn’t anything good enough out there to tempt me to spend my time, energy and money to go. (Avatar is the one exception in like the last 5 years) I figure it’s 3-4 hours of my time, from the moment I get in to the car, drive to the theater, park, go inside, buy tickets, get snacks, get in my seat, watch the movie, then go home. It’s going to cost me in gas, and it’s going to be at least $30-50 if we take a child or two along, maybe up to $80 depending on how much snacks. And why should I, when these same movies will be in my Netflix queue or cable box in a few months, for no extra money over my subscription fee I am paying anyway?
    When I am home, it costs me no extra time or money to turn on the TV, and do what hubby and I call ‘the 10 minute rule’. With a movie, we watch the first 10 minutes, and if by the first 10 minutes we are not intrigued or hooked or interested, we turn it off. We’ve found through trial and error that the 10 minute rule works. If it doesn’t catch our interest in the first 10 minutes, it always turns out to be a movie we are unhappy with at the end, and wishing we could have our time and money back (I’m looking at you, “Dinner for Shmucks!”) I have so little actual spare time in my life now, I don’t want to blow 4 hours on a movie that might trick me with a cleverly cut trailer that has all the best scenes in the preview. I’ll wait until it’s on cable, and I can use my ’10 minute rule’ to save myself my very precious time and money. And I want the convenience of watching something when *I* want to watch it. And the ability to pause it when I feel like it, or rewind to watch a great moment again. We are a technologically spoiled generation, and we like it that way.
    HBO, if you can give me a good quality TV show, for an hour a week, and keep that show going, I’m there to watch. The convenience of home grows better all the time. We have a big screen TV, comfy couches, and I would much rather be there watching a show where I can pause it if I need to, and also watch at my convenience! Invest money in the quality, get good actors, writers and directors, and you will get my time and money every month, instead of the movie theaters. Plus, as I follow along and become a loyal super fan, I’ll be buying t-shirts, mugs, toys, etc. And come DVD release time, I’ll be spending another $50-$80 bucks on the DVD set with the special features and behind the scenes interviews, etc. And I’ll be going to work, and telling my friends they should watch, so we can discuss all the ‘gates’ at our lunch breaks each day. So HBO, you’ll be getting my monthly commitment of cash that I pay you for the subscription, AND all that extra swag money. All you have to do is keep making more seasons of a good quality show I like. And be confident that if you build it, they will come. Don’t be afraid to step out on that limb and commit. Don’t pull a Fox! It’s good, you KNOW it’s good, now go sign all those actors up before they get lured to other shows, and the kids grow up. That visual of Kristen Nairn huffing and puffing over a quickly sprouting Bran on his back is scary. He’ll hardly be able to wheeze out “Hodor” as he stumbles along.

  93. Matt C. Der
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Jaqen H’ghar = Harvester of Sorrow (Metallica)

  94. purplejilly
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    Oh and PS Jaqen H’hgar is already cast! Because he is Syrio Forel Transformed, so they just have to get some wigs and makeup for Miltos :)

  95. Darkenmal
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    The fan in me is say YES!

    But the business side of me is saying “No way in hell.”

    By all accounts this series looks like its going to be a big success, and it should.

    But what if it isn’t?

    If Season One becomes the monster that it should, then yes renew it for Season Two!

    If not, then at least we have Game of Thrones to re-watch over the years.

  96. Franny Bee
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    Were I HBO, I would not wait for numbers.

    It’s always so easy to spend other people’s money, lol. But you make excellent points – the second series would make for more epic television, not to mention that it would intrigue people to know that there are 2 years of watching that they can invest their time into.

    However, I can’t handle a season 3. I was shocked at an event in book one (when NHN no-head-ned happened), but in the third book I reacted with a – WEEP SCREAM CRY THROW-BOOK-OUT-WINDOW wtf just happened WHY-god-WHYYYY moment. Must I now throw my TV?

    Getting the feeling I should only watch HBO’s GoT on an old, floor-model television. Magnavox, anyone?

  97. GaR
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Two Feathers,

    haha, cheers m/

    Syrio – When Death Calls (Black Sabbath)
    Gregor – I (Black Sabbath), Breaking the Law (Judas Priest)
    Catelyn – Trail of Tears (Testament)
    Beric – True Believer (Testament), Broken Beat & Scarred (Metallica)
    Meera & Jojen – Touching the Earth (James Murphy)
    Sandor – Believe in Nothing (Nevermore), Pandemonium (Venom), The Unforgiven (Metallica)
    High Septon (fat one) – Leper Messiah (Metallica)

    Two Feathers,

    Loras & Renly – Neon Knights (Black Sabbath)

  98. Mormegil
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Nick Larter: I was wondering the same – the alternative is that they move Arya’s story on a bit after the execution and don’t leave her on a cliffhanger at end of season 1

    They have moved Arya’s story along a little bit, we’ve seen a scene of Yoren getting everyone ready to leave Kings Landing (inc a cage pulled by horses)

    A possible reason for this is that we can rejoin Arya’s story in Season 2 X weeks later rather than 10 seconds later which allows for any aging Maisie Williams does between seasons.

  99. Blackfish Blues
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Yes.

    Details when I’m sober.

  100. Two Feathers
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    I wonder if its a fair assumption that a high percentage of our GoT fans are metalheads? That being the case, could it be something in our DNA that attracts us to this this type of “kick ass” dark fantasy genre? If this is true there is a vast potential audience for ASoIaF . If HBO`s marketing team can somehow harness this phenomenon they should be able to raise enough cash to fund up to season 6 and beyond…..

  101. Two Feathers
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    GaR,

    GaR…… Wow!!! You have a gift for this dude. Thanks for cheering me up.

  102. Carrie Meathrell
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    I can’t wait to see the dragons start to grow up :)

    Also, I agree with previous posters that aCoK is where Arya’s character arc starts to get really interesting. This is going to be a fantastic acting challenge for Ms. Williams, since she basically has to carry an entire plot line all on her own. I’m pretty stoked about any and all Harrenhall sequences (and yes, I’m also a Joe Dempsie fangirl, so I’m excited to see more of Gendry). Also, I can’t remember if they’ve cast Margaery Tyrell yet? I have a weakness for the Tyrells!

    Other scenes/plotlines I’m excited about: Jon Snow & Halfhand, Daenarys & Houses of the Undying, Bran & Rickon’s escape, but most of all Battle of the Blackwater. Can’t they get Neal Stephenson to consult on that? He has some wonderful passages on wildfire in his Baroque Cycle, and he can write a kickass action scene (even better, I’d claim, than GRRM himself.)

  103. Fire And Blood
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Two Feathers,

    I’m an everything-head these days, but back in the \m/ 80′s \m/ I was a serious metalhead (and a closet Duran Durannie). I can say that the fantasy genre, Dungeons & Dragons geeks, all that stuff had a close following with the metalhead heshers.

    But ’83, ’84 I was into Priest, Maiden, AC/DC, Scorpions, all that. Later it was Queensryche, Metallica, Malmsteen.

  104. Mike Chair
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Franny Bee: but in the third book I reacted with a – WEEP SCREAM CRY THROW-BOOK-OUT-WINDOW wtf just happened WHY-god-WHYYYY moment. Must I now throw my TV?

    Hmm. Franny is obviously a Tywin fan. ;-)

  105. Shinyteapot
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Wow, some brilliant suggestions :)

    I forgot the most obvious one: Jaime- My Sister Lover (Oasis)

  106. Two Feathers
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Fire And Blood: Two Feathers,I’m an everything-head these days, but back in the \m/ 80′s \m/ I was a serious metalhead (and a closet Duran Durannie). I can say that the fantasy genre, Dungeons & Dragons geeks, all that stuff had a close following with the metalhead heshers.But ’83, ’84 I was into Priest, Maiden, AC/DC, Scorpions, all that. Later it was Queensryche, Metallica, Malmsteen.

    Nice one FaB. The metal will always be in your (Fire +) blood. Nice to hear you are also in touch with your feminine side (DuranDuran)….ha!

  107. The Darkstar
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    If they cancel this b4 season 3, for the rest of my life I’m going to wonder ‘what could have been’

  108. Mike Chair
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Fire And Blood: Duran Durannie

    Hungry Like the Wolf?

    GaR: Sandor – Believe in Nothing (Nevermore), Pandemonium (Venom), The Unforgiven (Metallica)

    Sandor — Bark at the Moon (Ozzy).

  109. Two Feathers
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair: Hmm. Franny is obviously a Tywin fan.

    Poor Franny Bee! It was the same for me ,and most of the rest of the folks here I imagine. Then in AFFC at the end of Cat of the Canals…..it was Wha! … No , No, NO! ….NO F***ING WAY!!!!!!!!!!! Damn you George Martin…You have done it again.

  110. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    The number one reason HBO should greenlight season 2 now should be because then George will start posting casting clues and we can begin the guessing games again!

  111. Zack
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Had no idea of all the metalheads here. Excellent.

  112. GaR
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Two Feathers,

    Most of my friends who’re GoT fans are also metalheads. But then most of my friends are metalheads anyway.

    Also:

    Eddard – A Question of Honour (Primal Fear)

  113. Eggplant
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Shinyteapot,

    Sonata Arctica’s Wildfire for Sandor.
    Billy Talent’s River Below for Tyrion.

    And ThouShaltNot’s Glaciers and Cardinal Directions for the series in general.

    Edited to add: I Fight Dragon’s No One Likes Superman Anymore for Ned.

  114. Johan Sporre
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Dany – Child of Fire or Take Hold of the Flame (Queensrÿche)
    Cersei -Roads to Madness (Queensrÿche)

  115. obsidian
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    If Jaqen , Syrio , the alchemist are one and the same , they’ll still use multiple actors ,instead of make-up I would think. The transformation has to be complete.

  116. GaR
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    Sandor – Better By You Better Than Me (Judas Priest)
    unGregor – Iron Man (Black Sabbath)
    unCat – Lady Evil (Black Sabbath)
    The Red Viper – Nomad (Iron Maiden)
    Loras – Rainbow in the Dark (Dio), Death or Glory (Running Wild)
    Beric – Resurrection (Venom)
    Mirri Maz Duur – Reaping Stone (Iced Earth), Voodoo (Black Sabbath)
    Rhaegar – Ancient Warrior (Black Sabbath)
    Thoros – Kiss of Death (Black Sabbath)
    Petyr – Shortest Straw (Metallica)
    Euron – Under Jolly Roger (Running Wild)

  117. obsidian
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Where has the spoiler thingy gone ? Rats…I’ll try to think of a way of putting it. purplejilly..I meant to ask ..What do you think of the faceless man who waits on the bridge for Balon in the Dwarf Woman’s dream ?

    How long does it take to get from here to there to elsewhere ?

  118. Tony
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    You are a hero among men for mentioning Hammerfall.

    Lets not forget “Voice in the Dark” by Blind Guardian for Bran ;)

  119. Tony
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    Also, the band Seven Kingdom’s entire first album “Brothers of the Night” (Minus one song!) is a concept about the series!

    “Stormborn” for Dany of course :)

  120. Mormegil
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    Characters and Queen Songs

    Cersei – Killer Queen or I’m going Slightly Mad
    Bran – Spread your Wings
    Ned – Don’t lose your Head
    Littlefinger – I Want it All
    The Hound, Thoros and Anguy – We are the Champions

  121. Mike Chair
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    GaR,

    Wait. I’ve got it.

    unCat — Dead in the Water (Hawthorne Heights)

    Bullseye!

  122. Tony
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    Falconer – “Tower of the Queen” for Cersei
    Falconer – “Northwind” for The Night’s Watch
    The Sword – “To Take the Black” for the Night’s Watch (Directly about the books, like the ones in my previous two posts)

  123. purplejilly
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    obsidian,
    Do you think that’s Jaqen as well? It sure could be, because after he leaves Harrenhal he could head down to the Kraken world pretty easily..

  124. purplejilly
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    Fire And Blood,

    This is an OT Duran Duran thing, but my hubby likes them too, as he had three older sisters and was subjected to whatever their music preferences were. And they loved DD! And in the TV show Wizards of Waverly Place, they use names of 80′s bands and lyrics from 80′s songs for the spells. And some of the characters are named after the cast of Bewitched and I Dream Of Jeannie. It was funny, my 7 yr old was watching the show and I was trying to ignore it, then these names of bands and song lyrics kept popping up.

  125. winterqueen
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    If we get a S2, I can’t wait to see the below

    -House of Undying – I had goosebumps the first time I read that chapter. The blue rose growing on a wall of ice…….oh my god. My jaw dropped
    -Mel giving birth to the shadow baby as Davos looks on in shock
    -Ser Barristan meeting Dany in Qarth
    -Battle of the blackwater
    -the Sansa/Sandor encounter during the battle of the blackwater. I’m really interested to see how HBO will handle this scene. I was scared and worried for Sansa for all of ACOK but that scene almost made my heart stop. So Creepy. When I was reading ASOS for the first time and read the part that Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her, I almost dropped the book. I went straight to ACOK and re-read the Sansa chapter…….no kiss. Will there be a kiss or not???

    -I’m excited to meet the Reed kids.

  126. Lord Ned's Head
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again I’m sure. Seasn two is a done deal. There is simply no way in my mind that it won’t happen. Reading between the lines there are several times we’ve heard crew or press mention season 2. Rumors that stuff is gearing up at Paint Hall as well as what we’ve heard about reserving the spot (correct me if I am wrong here) for upcoming years tell me that this show isn’t going anywhere soon.
    The more interesting thing to me is not if there will be a season two, but what will the budget be. GRRM has stated a few times that big scenes like the Blackwater are going to be cut. If season one is a smash, I’m hoping we might get some budgetary increases to allow for a battle.
    In season two I’d like to see several things played up more than what they were in the books. Renly-Loras, Brienne-Renly, more direct interplay between all the players in the Small Council, Stannis-Mel-Davos triangle. I’d also like to see Jaime with a bigger role than he had in book 2. The dialogue scene with Cat will be awesome, as will the escape attempt if we get it. Possibly we can build on a relationship between Jaime and Edmure. Perhaps Edmure can treat Jaime like total shit. It would be a good way to enhance Jaime’s character and his actions if the show lasts long enough to see the events that transpire in the Riverlands at the end of Feast. One of the few tings that I felt GRRm had a tough time doing. was his attempt to cast Jaime in somewhat of a redeeming light. Jaime just does too much bad stuff early on for me to forgive him down the line. However, if D&D were to carefully craft some scenes showing him in a better light, especially while at Riverrun and during his time with Brienne, I might be able to come around to his character more than I did in the books.

  127. KG
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    How did everyone miss Iron Maiden’s Flash of the Blade for Syrio/Arya? Shame on you!

    http://www.lyricsfreak.com/i/iron+maiden/flash+of+the+blade_20068042.html

    —)—————-

  128. Shinyteapot
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    Mormegil,

    I can imagine a drunken Robert singing Fat Bottomed Girls at a feast!

  129. GaR
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    The Battle of the Blackwater won’t be cut; it’d screw up too many storylines.

    I suspect that most of it will be Sansa and Cersei getting second hand info. They could also have Tyrion & Joffrey with the three whores, as well as Sandor’s return from his sortie and subsequent refusal to return to the fight. Then They could have Tyrion mounting up, rallying the troops and disappearing out the gate.

    The scene on the bridge of boats might have to go, but it’d be a pretty good cliffhanger to have Tyrion galloping off into the battle through the smoke and fire while his men all scream “HALFMAN!!”

    Is it in SoS when Tyrion wakes up with half his face cut off?

  130. GaR
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    *ahem*

    GaR: Shinyteapot, Arya – Flash of the Blade (Iron Maiden

  131. Lord Ned's Head
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    According to GRRM Blackwater will not be nearly as epic as it was int he books. I truly hope GoT S1 is a smash and we get enough of a S2 budget to enhance the action, but as for now, its one of the areas of the plot that I am forcing myself to have low expectations for. Even though I’m usually one for dialogue over action, I think this is an area that is going to be weakened by lack of action. I just hope they can squeeze every pund out of the budget to make it as epic as possible.

  132. Tysnow
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    Godsmack – Love, Hate, Sex and Pain for Jaime/Cersei
    Madonna – Respect Yourself for Sam
    The Knack – My Sharona for Tyrion
    Bowie – Lets Dance for Syrio/Arya lessons

  133. DH87
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

    TC: Of course the Boardwalk Empire series premiere episode also averaged 4.8 Million viewers, which bested every original series debut since Deadwood’s back in 2004.

    Please do not invoke the ghost of BE. It lost half of its viewers within three weeks. That massive first-week viewership was artificially inflated by large sections of the cable viewing audience receiving a free HBO weekend for the premiere.

  134. DH87
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    TargetDog: I’m hoping it pulls in 3-4 million for the premiere, and stabilizes at 2.5 at least for the rest of the season

    I agree that this would be a highly acceptable showing for a costume drama this convoluted and without easily recognizable marquee names fronting it. (I can’t tell you how many folks—here in the U.S.— have furrowed their brows at the mention of “Sean Bean” but who then recognize him immediately by sight.) And it seems as though HBO is greenlighting new series every week to fill the pipeline.

  135. Hollyoak
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

    Just saw a preview before the much-hyped HBO miniseries Mildred Pierce.

    Opening scene is a great shot of a rider hurtling toward Winterfell on horseback, his back to the camera.

    Cate and Ned in the Godswood in a close-up scene: “The King rides for Winterfell.”

    Tywin to Jaime Lannister: “The future of our family will be determined within these next few months.”

    A shot of Varys pulling a dagger in front of Catelyn.

    Longer shot of the Mountain and the Hound dueling, with the Knight of Flowers picking himself up off the ground.

    Not much longer to wait now, so all these obsessive trailer reports won’t matter anymore!

  136. DH87
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    Justin Dean Nelson: HBO will greenlight season 2 on April 18.

    Agreed: it gives the perception that the viewer response to the show was overwhelmingly positive, based on the “flash,” or raw, numbers that will be known only to HBO, even if it isn’t—-the “BE” strategy. And a free weekend in several major markets (LA? NYC?) can deliver the eyeballs for that premiere. Probably a done deal, just so long as the NFL doesn’t suddenly decide to counter program with “Sunday Night Spring Football Special Featuring a Nude Tom Brady and his Victoria’s Secret Model Wife.”

  137. Mormegil
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

    Shinyteapot,

    LoL

    Some House Songs (still Queen)

    Stark – A Winters Tale
    Lannister – We will (Casterly) Rock You
    Targaryen – Dragon Attack
    Bolton – Pain is so Close to Pleasure
    Greyjoy – Seven Seas of Rhye

  138. Josh
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    As much as I would like for it to be renewed right now, it makes ZERO sense. Yes the kids grow, but given that they can say a couple of months passed between seasons(even though it doesn’t between books) it isn’t hard to believe a kid grew a little. Second since the sets are still supposedly built, all they’d need to do is greenlight it and it’s a go, at least for sets like Winterfell and King’s Landing.

    Business wise, renewing Game of Thrones right now doesn’t really help it all that much. HBO is all about buzz and renewing a show three weeks before it premieres won’t give it buzz when it matters most, when the show is airing.

    So HBO will do either three things
    1. Renew it VERY close to the show’s first episode.
    2. Renew it shortly after the show’s first episode.
    3. Renew it after either three or five episodes air, then run a marathon of Game of Thrones.

    That’s what is best for the show in concern of buzz and viewers.

  139. Mormegil
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    Hollyoak,

    Was just about to go to bed but am now wondering if this will be online in a few minutes.
    :)

  140. obsidian
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

    purplejilly,

    I’m not sure if I want to put a name to that faceless man, yet…but I find the possibility intriguing , and as you say, the timing could possibly work . I feel very sure about the Alchemist and pretty darned sure about Syrio ,because it seems to me that though he could have adopted any speech pattern, he used one that would remind Arya of Syrio and make her more disposed to trust him. Or am I clutching at straws ?

    All of this has not got me obsessed enough to pore over the timeline…yet. ;)And it’s probably all old stuff to many. I just read the books last summer ,and I can barely wait ’til July to see if we’re given a few more hints.( which will seem a high class complaint to those who have been waiting for six years. )*blush*

  141. Franny Bee
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair,
    Tywin who!? You know I meant the ‘bad musicians’… ;)

    Two Feathers,
    We need a support group to survive the massacre to come in DwD. I am already covering the mirrors and mentally killing everyone I like off in meaningless ways to prepare.

    However I’m not a softy. When a certain juvie kitten-killer bought the farm, I screamed with joy and wooted all about the house. One of those ‘please-let-him-REALLY-be-dying-slowly’ moments. Same for his whore-stealing grandpa. Justice mofos. Justice.

    Shae’s death still disturbed me however. Though earned, it was so… intimately done.

  142. Justin Dean Nelson
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

    Hollyoak,

    I would not call that a trailer. That was a preview for next weeks preview. They aired a new trailer at 8:42pm. It had direwolf action and a lion behind the Game of Thrones logo.

  143. Hollyoak
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    Justin Dean Nelson:
    Hollyoak,

    I would not call that a trailer. That was a preview for next weeks preview. They aired a new trailer at 8:42pm. It had direwolf action and a lion behind the Game of Thrones logo.

    I would agree. I didn’t call it a new trailer but a preview. Wish I had seen the one you just spoke of.

  144. Ikertzeke
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    GaR
    Is it in SoS when Tyrion wakes up with half his face cut off?

    no, it´s in ACOK´s last chapters

  145. KG
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    I stand corrected :D

  146. Steve the Pirate
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    I caught the preview ad but not the new actual trailer. I recorded the preview ad via digital camera like I did intially with the Power trailer. I’m uploading to youtube now, it should be up in a few minutes. Again, not great quality, but for anyone who’s curious, I guess it’s better than nothing.

  147. Keaton
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/03/27/camelot-vs-game-of-thrones/

    Here’s a comparison chart between Camelot, Borgias and GoT from Entertainment Weekly. Tons of errors, but I thought it was amusing.

  148. Steve the Pirate
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

    Shoot, the audio on my video is botched. Sorry bout that. No dice. If the ad plays again, I’ll record it. Hopefully someone else will get it uploaded before then in good quality.

  149. Ed
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

    I think they can pull off the Battle of Blackwater Bay with CGI.

    John Adams has been mentioned a few times and that was several years ago. Technology moves a lot in a few years. I think they can do it.

    For Season Two, I would look forward to:

    - “That’s no law. That’s just a sword. Happens, I got one, too.”
    - The “Ghost” of Harrenhal
    - “You’ll have to carry me.”
    - “There are no men like me.”
    - “Lots of people have black hair.” (indeed)
    - “There’s a dearth of sacking songs.”

  150. Steve
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    Hello!

    I am very excited about Camelot which premieres on Starz April 1, foo. I pity the foo. Run, you foo’s.

    TTFN

  151. MP
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    Omagus:

    So it’s just up to us. Let’s make sure we make the first episode one of the highest rated ever, and we’ll get our second season.

    Yes, but judging from the poll on this site, the majority of fans (so this is people who already love the books and need no convincing) will not be included in HBO ratings because of the “other means” they will apparently be watching the series by. SO I guess we can really only count on those new to the series.

  152. Nick
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

    MP,

    Look at the poll closer.

  153. MP
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

    Nick,

    Even if you combine those that already have HBO with those subscribing for GoT (which I think HBO pays specific attn to), that’s 50%–and that’s only counting the hardcore fans of the books, who should be counted on to make ratings as high as possible for a second season.

    It’s understandable for those who have no other way of seeing the show, but I’d be surprised if that’s the case for 34% of the fans.

  154. Lina
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:29 pm | Permalink

    I saw the new preview tonight as well, on both ends of Mildred Pierce. It wasn’t really anything too new in all honesty, but that’s okay, because we’ve been bombarded with a million new things lately. And any GoT spot I see on HBO, regardless of which one it is, makes me happy. :) I didn’t see the new trailer you guys are talking about – was there a lot of new footage in it?

    Mildred Pierce was really great by the way. I just don’t even understand how HBO is so consistently awesome. And Kate Winslet is amazing.

  155. Nick
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    Well anyone who can get HBO and are choosing not to due to the money, they’ll only have themselves to blame if we don’t see a season 3 and beyond. I know there has been a lot of talk about the cost of HBO being one thing, but a cable subscription as well being too much. But I know I’d easily put up $100+ a month or whatever if it meant a better chance of more seasons.

  156. MP
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

    Nick:
    Well anyone who can get HBO and are choosing not to due to the money, they’ll only have themselves to blame if we don’t see a season 3 and beyond. I know there has been a lot of talk about the cost of HBO being one thing, but a cable subscription as well being too much. But I know I’d easily put up $100+ a month or whatever if it meant a better chance of more seasons.

    That’s exactly my point. If people want another season, they have to vote with their pocketbooks.

  157. Fire And Blood
    Posted March 27, 2011 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    I agree we’ve seen a lot already. There’s probably some vid wizard out there somewhere who can string together various scenes from all the previews we’ve gotten and basically give us half of episode one. They haven’t been shy!

    Tangental thought: who haven’t we seen yet? Off the top of my head I can name Shae, Shagga, Osha … uh … Walder Frey … Beric Dondarrion/ Mirri Maz Duur.

    I know there’s more.

  158. Chris
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 12:08 am | Permalink

    I dunno if I missed something, but there were two new promos at the beginning and end of the pre-Mildred Piece content… neither one resembling a trailer. Both were really quick cuts that lasted maybe 30 seconds.

    Nothing that we haven’t seen before for the most part, just a quick Tywin line mentioned above, and in the first one, I think there may have been a shot of 2 people creeping up on Bran in the woods. It was cut so quick and shot from behind so you can’t really tell who it is. Oh, and a new logo, which I guess is pretty cool.

    I wouldn’t sweat it if you missed it or don’t have access to HBO, though…

  159. Lina
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 12:30 am | Permalink

    Fire And Blood:
    Tangental thought: who haven’t we seen yet? Off the top of my head I can name Shae, Shagga, Osha … uh … Walder Frey … Beric Dondarrion/Mirri Maz Duur.

    I can think of a lot of characters from the first book that we haven’t seen yet, but I’m not sure if HBO has maybe said they won’t be in Season 1. I think I remember people saying the Blackfish won’t be in the first season, but what about Hoster and Edmure? And have we seen any of the Northern lords? Greatjon has been cast but I don’t remember seeing him. Lommy and Hotpie? Have we seen Ser Kevan? Would Margaery Tyrell be featured?

    We also haven’t seen Aerys, Rhaegar, Lyanna, Rickard, or Arthur Dayne, and we only have that one screen of Brandon, but I’m hoping we do see them!

  160. purplejilly
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 12:33 am | Permalink

    obsidian,
    The talking is what helped convince me. I think the phrase “Just So” being used by both characters is an intentional hint.

  161. Lex
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    Lina,

    Hoster and Edmure will not appear until Season 2.

    I don’t think we’ve seen the following:

    -Kevan Lannister
    -Lysa and Robin Arryn (or have we?)
    -Walder Frey
    -the Greatjon
    -Osha
    -Shae
    -Shagga
    -Mirri Maz Duur
    -Beric Dondarrion
    -Hot Pie
    -Janos Slynt
    -Lords Glover & Bracken
    -Irri (?)
    -Mycah

    And probably a few other very minor roles…

  162. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 1:17 am | Permalink

    MP,

    When you have to scrape together pennies, literally, fucking pennies to be able to pay for vegetables at the grocery store, $100 is a lot of money and it’s a lot of money you may not even have. Sorry.

  163. Chris
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 1:18 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    I believe we’ve seen Irri and mycah in the “Costumes” clip on ondemand. There was also aa quick shot of robin arryn, and you could barely see lysa behind him, in a recent trailer.

  164. Chris77
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 2:00 am | Permalink

    It would be awesome if they could make it available on itunes as fast as possible, doing so would prevent a lot of fans not able to watch it on HBO from using “other” methods, because you could watch it in HD and support the show with your cash.

    Scenes I yearn for in season 2:

    Arya, Jaquen and the leechlord ( and of course Lorch vs Bear:))

    Blackwater

    Shadowbirth

    Renly’s Peach

    (B) Arristan

    John’ ranging

    Prince Greyjoy

    and much. much more…

  165. Brandon Gower
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 2:05 am | Permalink

    Shinyteapot,

    The Mountain – Counting Bodies Like Sheep to the Rhythm of the War Drums (A Perfect Circle)

  166. Lex
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 2:11 am | Permalink

    Brandon Gower,

    Awesome choice!

  167. GaR
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 2:12 am | Permalink

    I wonder how many there are like myself who can’t subscribe to HBO but will be buying the DVDs or Blurays. I suppose HBO have learned their lesson from Rome and will take that into account, but it won’t help season 2, since that decision will already have long been made. I imagine it’ll help out season 3 though.

    It’d be nice if the poll included “other, followed by DVD / Bluray when available”… It’d paint a slightly less ugly picture anyway.

  168. saluk
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 2:31 am | Permalink

    Some of you are putting too much stock in the poll. Every single piece of content that is made that can be digitized will have more people accessing it in illegal ways than legal ways. This goes for true blood, the wire, anything really. If the content is good, the people who cant pay for it will see it anyway. And guess what: the more popular something is, the MORE demand there will be to access it – legally or not. The poll is not really a good indicator for who will watch it through proper means and be counted.

    I find that 33% number VERY low. And 381 votes for people who are going to be new members? On a fansite like this? On a poll that you have to scroll all the way to the bottom to see? That’s really high!

    Anyway it’s really not a good indicator. It’s how people plan to watch, and doesn’t really say what’s really going to happen. If everyone who voted created a new subscription for HBO and watches every airing of the show, but no one else does, it’s not enough. We need millions not thousands of viewers. Most of whom would never even think to come onto this site. I’m sure there are even a large number of fans of the books who would never find their way here.

    I’m betting on quite an uptick in HBO subs in fact, if it doesn’t happen I will be shocked.

  169. Tre Svatek
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 2:41 am | Permalink

    I know for one that my buddy, someone who does not visit this site (unless prompted by me :P ) will be purchasing HBO for the sole reason to watch this show. I will be over there to watch it. I think HBO will be doing just fine with the subscriptions this show brings in :D

  170. Hear Me Roar
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 3:28 am | Permalink

    Interesting EW comparison. They tout the sex a bit too much :) Watch if you liked The Walking Dead? Ah well … zombie White Walkers (which is not quite correct). But who cares, it’s great promotion that way: like Rome and The WD! Sounds best of them all ;)

    I’m sorry to hear some initial reports from critics that the Borgias are not that good. I was looking forward to it, we’ll see.

  171. Vic Sage
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 4:50 am | Permalink

    I have no doubt that we will have GOT:Clash of Kings announced soon.

  172. Hear Me Roar
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 5:26 am | Permalink

    For maximum impact and promotion, HBO should of course (and probably will) announce the pick-up soon after the premiere: “Look, we have a new series, and it’s doing so well we are already locking in the next season”. There is of course no reason why they wouldn’t order a second season at all, see the above post by FaB, all arguments valid :)

  173. m4st4
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    Will the second season be named COK or GOT:COK? Hmm…

  174. sjwenings
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    m4st4,

    GOT season 2.

  175. Mormegil
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 6:00 am | Permalink

    m4st4: Will the second season be named COK or GOT:COK? Hmm…

    Game of Thrones Season 2

    They’ll probably work ACoK in as an episode title but I doubt it will feature in the main title.

    Or they could do what Babylon 5 did where each season on DVD had a unique name that IIRC was never seen on TV.

  176. m4st4
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    Game of Thrones Season 2? I’m sure they’ll put it on DVD cover at least

    Game of Thrones: Season 2 – A Clash of Kings

  177. Hear Me Roar
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    m4st4,

    They may get into trouble if and when there is no more one-to-one correspondence between the books and the seasons. Avoiding this and just using A Clash of Kings as an episode title may be safer.

  178. Mike
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    Steve Hugh Westenra,

    but is not a $100 a month, he was just saying he would spend $100 a month. In most cases it is about $10 a month.

  179. m4st4
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    They may get into trouble if and when there is no more one-to-one correspondence between the books and the seasons.

    Which is pretty scary when you think about it, poor George. We’ll completely anihilate ‘Dance’ in two days probably. You’re right, they could name first episode ‘A Clash of King’, or the last one who knows – Blackwater Bay battle.

  180. MirriMaz
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    Does anyone know if HBO puts the episodes on I-tunes after they have aired??

  181. Dave 'KingSlayer'
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    ultimate scene:

    The Red Viper -vs- The Mountain That Rides…

  182. Petyr
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    Budget concerns aside, I hope they work my favorite line in somewhere:

    “Those are brave men,” he told Ser Balon in admiration. “Let’s go kill them.”

  183. Regina Thorne
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    MirriMaz,

    They usually go on iTunes after the DVD release. They don’t put currently airing shows on iTunes since that would undercut their subscription model.

    I’m sorry to hear that people won’t be able to watch the show when it airs because of budgetary concerns but that doesn’t make it ok to illegally download the show because you can’t wait to rent the dvds. If you can’t afford to buy Dance when it’s released would you be justified in shoplifting a copy because you’re such a big fan and you can’t wait until it’s available at the library? Not really!

    I was very upset when HBO cancelled “Rome”; I was the only person I knew who was watching it legally by paying HBO and I felt like telling all the people I knew who’d downloaded the show that they bore some responsibility for the cancellation. NAnd by the way, as far as I know they didn’t buy DVDs either. Why should they when they had the files on their computers anyway?

    Plus a high-speed Internet connection such that you would need to download a tv show also costs money, if I’m not mistaken!

  184. Sawyer
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    sorry that’s too cool..so here we go:

    Tywin- I’m A Rock (Attack in Black)
    Cersei- Kiss And Control (AFI); Heart Is Hard To Find (Jimmy Eat World)
    Jaime- Baby I’m Yours (Arctic Monkeys)
    Melisandre- The Killing Lights (AFI), Shadow Of The Dead (Anti-Flag)
    Lord Frey- He Who Laughs Last (AFI)
    Jon Snow- Back In Black (ACDC)
    Bran- The Fine Art Of Falling (Boysetsfire); Summer Skin (Death Cab For Cutie)
    Robb- Today’s Empires Tomorrow’s Ashes (Propagandhi)
    The Others- With Cold Eyes (Boysetsfire)
    The Hound- Me Against The World (Beatsteaks)
    Sansa- Talking Bird (Death Cab For Cutie); When Will I Ever Get Home (Kilians)

  185. Sawyer
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    Damn edit doesn’t work anymore…forgot the best one:

    Jaime- The Things That Lovers Do (22-20s)

  186. Eirikur
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Regina Thorne,

    Relax. There are a lot of international viewers that A) are not able to get HBO (naturally) and B) don’t wish to wait for DVD’s. I will find “other” ways to watch AGoT and i WILL buy the DVD’s when they are released. So it’s just a matter of delayed payment on my part.

    High horses are fine as long as everybody has the possibility to be on one… ;-)

  187. Abyss
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    Sawyer,
    Sawyer,

    Ok, this is going to be my GoT-playlist. Great stuff! :-)

  188. Mike
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Season 2 is a done deal. We have to move on to more pressing concerns.

    Where’s the new post for the casting choices for “All for Joffrey”?

    Huge role, I’m thinking Sean Connery.

  189. Regina Thorne
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    Eirikur:
    Regina Thorne,

    Relax. There are a lot of international viewers that A) are not able to get HBO (naturally) and B) don’t wish to wait for DVD’s. I will find “other” ways to watch AGoT and i WILL buy the DVD’s when they are released. So it’s just a matter of delayed payment on my part.

    High horses are fine as long as everybody has the possibility to be on one…

    Yes, I am on a high horse about this and I’m sure everyone who intends to download has a great rationalization for doing so but the bottom line is that a) downloading the show is actually illegal; and b) money is an issue in whether we get more seasons of the show. Having had one show I loved cancelled because of the cost of producing it makes me leery about having this happen to “Game of Thrones” which is even more exciting to me than “Rome” was.

    And no one I knew who was downloading “Rome” lived in a place where they couldn’t get HBO. They just decided they didn’t want to spend the money on it. Fair enough, but then you get the classic free-rider problem where some people are paying (quite literally to produce the show, since HBO is using the money from subscriptions etc. to produce future seasons) and others are enjoying the benefits of that without paying. There’s no way to prevent it, of course, but I think the logic of “I can’t afford this right now but I don’t think I should have to wait until I can” really flies. Sorry!

  190. Eirikur
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    Regina Thorne: but I think the logic of “I can’t afford this right now but I don’t think I should have to wait until I can” really flies. Sorry!

    I didn’t say I couldn’t affort it right now. I can. I would love to pay HBO right now to be able to watch it. However, as that in not an option, I will do the only thing that is available to me at the moment. Download it as it airs in the US, and then pay as the DVD’s are released.

    If you are willing to NOT watch the show as it airs and wait with me for the DVD’s to be released your argument would hold more water. Somehow I doubt you would be willing to do that though… And so am I.

    Sorry!

  191. Regina Thorne
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    [b]Eirikur[/b]

    Why should I wait for the DVDs to be available all over the world when I can pay – and am – paying for the premium cable service to watch the show as it airs? How does that make my argument that downloading is illegal and could potentially costs everyone the show they love any less valid? I – and everyone else who pays for the channel – is subsidizing the people who download, wherever they are and I think you are missing my point that not everyone who is going to download lives in Iceland (I’m guessing from your name). After all, someone is putting up the links, after all, that you will use to download, and I’d bet they live somewhere where they could pay for the show. Moreover, I’m sure that people in the US, UK, Croatia, Spain etc., also have excellent reasons why they should not pay for HBO!

    Anyway, I am not going to argue about this any more because I’m not going to change anyone’s mind about this – I hope you enjoy the show and I hope we get seven seasons of it and the expense is justified by the money that HBO makes from the sale of DVDs and subscriptions and all the rest. And if the show does get cancelled after two seasons, I’ll be here in my corner muttering “free riders!” just as I did after “Rome” was cancelled.

  192. Eirikur
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    Regina Thorne: I’m sure that people in the US, UK, Croatia, Spain etc., also have excellent reasons why they should not pay for HBO!

    Why do you insist on claiming I don’t wish to pay when I’ve stated again and again that I am, and I that I will?

    However, I also wish to watch the show as it airs, something that is only available to me if I download it. However, (and please take note of this this time) I WILL pay for the DVD’s as they are released. Doing that is all I can do, and how am I jeapordizing the show if I pay for the DVD’s? If the show is cancelled, I will be equally justified to “sit in my corner muttering ‘free riders’” as you, wouldn’t you say?

  193. Hear Me Roar
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    I don’t want to interfere in the debate, but I want to make clear one point that maybe escaped attention: Eirikur lives in a country where there is no HBO and no-one is airing Thrones.

  194. Chris
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Eirikur,

    Regina has made it repeatedly clear that she is responding to people who can pay for the show and refuse to. If you don’t fall into that category, why do you keep getting so defensive and patronizing towards her?

  195. Eirikur
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Chris,

    Obviously not sufficiently clear then (at least not to me).

    But if that was Reginas intention, I appoligize. I read her comments in a rather different way…

  196. Regina Thorne
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    Hear Me Roar:
    I don’t want to interfere in the debate, but I want to make clear one point that maybe escaped attention: Eirikur lives in a country where there is no HBO and no-one is airing Thrones.

    No, that didn’t escape my attention at all. But he seems to willfully misunderstand what I am saying which is that I’m guessing that the 34% of people who said in the WIC poll that they would download the show probably DON’T all live in a country where they cannot watch the show by legal means. And I’m sure they all have excellent rationalizations for why they shouldn’t wait to watch the show though they don’t want to pay.

    What Eirikur is missing is that my original post was about the person who said they couldn’t afford HBO because they were pinching pennies to buy vegetables with the implication that in these circumstances, illegally downloading the show was ok. That argument doesn’t fly with me because, well, premium cable isn’t a necessity for subsistence and I hardly think you’d be justified in shoplifting something just because you’re a big fan and you really, really want it now! That’s a level of entitlement that, yes, annoys me!

    Chris, thank you for your support. That is exactly what I’m trying to say! I finally looked at that poll this morning and I was really disappointed to see how many people said they’d download the show. I daresay not all of them live in places where it’s impossible to watch by legal means!

  197. Regina Thorne
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Eirikur,

    OK, let me make this clear again! I was responding to the 34% of the people who claim that they will download the show (and because I think there is a reporting bias I suspect that number is probably significantly higher in real life.) My original comment to which you have responded was about people who said their circumstances were too financially straitened to pay for HBO right now and implied that this justified illegally downloading the show. I guess I am a sucker then, because I saved some money so I would be able to purchase the premium cable channel for the duration of the show and if I really couldn’t have afforded that, I would have had to wait until the DVDs came out and get them from the library or Netflix. It would have been difficult, yes, but in the end, if that was the only way for me to watch the show, I would have done it.

    And I hope that the people who can pay (and let me define “can pay” for you as “can afford it and live in a place where Game of Thrones is being broadcast” lest you again misinterpret my words!) will find a way to do it, because ultimately this is going to hurt the chances of a very big budget show.

  198. Eirikur
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    Regina Thorne,

    Ok, I misunderstood you. I’m obviously sensitive as I am a member of the “34%”. I agree with you on all you points above. I want all seven (?) seasons and I am more than willing to pay for it.

    Regarding the 34% on this site though we have slightly different viewpoints, and it might be that I’m naive… I believe that most of those are internationall viewers such as myself. Everyone frequenting WiC at this point has to be a major fan, and as such I (fervently) hope they want to pay HBO for the show.

  199. Regina Thorne
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Eirikur,

    Glad we cleared that up! Sadly, I think I am more of a cynic than you are based on my experience of “Rome” (and I know a lot of people who are “True Blood” fans and definitely don’t pay for HBO) and my *frowny face* was really for people I know who can subscribe but choose not to.

    I hope that you are right and that everyone in the 34% is a rabid fan stuck in some television desert who is dying to buy the DVDs :P. (And I myself will undoubtedly buy them in addition to subscribing, although I may have to put them on my Christmas list :D)

    And truly, I hope the show lives up to all of our expectations!

  200. saluk
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    Mike:
    Steve Hugh Westenra,

    but is not a $100 a month, he was just saying he would spend $100 a month.In most cases it is about $10 a month.

    Cable + HBO is CERTAINLY not 10$ a month. Packages that include hbo are usually around $100 a month in fact, depending on your location and which cable companies thumb you are under. It’s a steep price for a lot of people.

    Regina Thorne:
    Eirikur,

    Glad we cleared that up!Sadly, I think I am more of a cynic than you are based on my experience of “Rome” (and I know a lot of people who are “True Blood” fans and definitely don’t pay for HBO) and my *frowny face* was really for people I know who can subscribe but choose not to.

    And remind me, which show is HBO’s most successful show? I think that would be Tru Blood currently. And rome was cancelled because BBC pulled funding, not because of downloaders. BBC pulled funding because the deal wasn’t as beneficial to them as it was to HBO.

    You should not be worried about too many downloaders killing GOT, too many downloaders is almost never the problem with something being successful. The most successful things are generally downloaded much much more than content that is not successful! By all means, be annoyed with the free rider problem, and that people are cheating the company out of good content!

    But it is more important to try to get people who would pay for it, to pay; rather than trying to convert people who A) aren’t sure if they are interested in the show enough to pay at first (who may yet subscribe for season 2 or buy dvds if they like it), or B) don’t pay for things in general; to change their ways and leave the dark side.

    If something is available for free and with little fear of repercussions, the amount of people who take that path will be as big as the demand for the good is, since the supply is infinite. It doesn’t work out the same in all cases, I mean you have things with low ratings and high downloads, low ratings and low downloads, high ratings and high downloads (not sure about high ratings and low downloads, that doesn’t sound likely). I think high/high is the best we can hope for.

    My intuition tells me that if we have a high number of free riders, we (and HBO) will have a VERY successful show.

  201. Ed
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    Yet you still have a computer and internet access? (or I suppose you could be at a friend’s house using their computer and internet)

    Steve Hugh Westenra:
    MP,

    When you have to scrape together pennies, literally, fucking pennies to be able to pay for vegetables at the grocery store, $100 isa lot of money and it’s a lot of money you may not even have.Sorry.

  202. McSherrie
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Ed,

    Or could be a student. Or could be a victim of the current economy and working with an old(er) computer and a cheap ‘net connection.

    I’ve been in both boats, actually. And both times have had to miss out on cable television in order to eat. It sucks, but it does happen.

  203. Regina Thorne
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    saluk: By all means, be annoyed with the free rider problem, and that people are cheating the company out of good content!

    Believe me, I AM annoyed! If we all decided that it was fine that someone else was paying but we want to spend our money on other things, there would be no show at all. So why shouldn’t I feel resentful that people choose not to pay the price for watching the show now but still want the ability to do so? I guess you are right and I’m not going to change anyone’s plans, but I’m still disturbed by the high percentage of people in the poll who are fully intending to do this. I

  204. Regina Thorne
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    saluk also I get my Internet through my cable company and some of them are already talking about increasing prices for people who use a lot of bandwidth (for example, in downloading or streaming tv show and movies.). I’m sure it’s only a matter of time before there is aggressive pursuit of tv downloadeds the way that the music industy went after people who illegally downloaded music and I vaguely remember reading that HBO was pretty aggressively trying to get people not to DL (unsuccessfully perhaps but still the threat is there so it’s something to think about even if legal or ethical arguments hold no sway.).

  205. Ed
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    Regina Thorne: Believe me, I AM annoyed!If we all decided that it was fine that someone else was paying but we want to spend our money on other things, there would be no show at all.So why shouldn’t I feel resentful that people choose not to pay the price for watching the show now but still want the ability to do so?I guess you are right and I’m not going to change anyone’s plans, but I’m still disturbed by the high percentage of people in the poll who are fully intending to do this.I

    Me, too.

  206. clemintine
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Regina Thorne: a) downloading the show is actually illegal

    The Entire Planet != The United States. It’s not illegal everywhere.

    Can everyone get off their high horses and give the downloading thing a rest?

    1) Not everyone lives in the United States.
    2) Not everyone lives in a country that will broadcast it this year.
    3) Not everyone lives in a country where either English is the first language or English-language television comes undubbed.
    4) Not everyone lives in a country that will broadcast GoT, ever.
    5) Within the States, to some people the extra money to upgrade to HBO is very high for a single show (maybe even the money alone to buy a television and basic cable is a lot to them).

    Acknowledge that the rest of the world exists, that we might have difficulties that you don’t understand because you have never left your insular, little country to see the world from different view points.

  207. GaR
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    clemintine,

    +1

    I’m a member of the evil 34%, and I’d pay HBO straight away to watch it when it releases, if they’d only take my money.

  208. J
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Jaime – Behind blue (green) eyes

  209. Chris
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    clemintine,

    Can everyone telling Regina to get off her high horse, get of THEIR high horses and give it a rest?

    1.) She is NOT talking about people who are not able to pay for the show. She has repeatedly said that she is talking about people who are choosing not to pay for the show.

    2.) It’s a perfectly valid concern and expressing her opinion is not being up on a high horse as has been said numerous times.

    3.) “The Entire Planet != The United States.”

    While this may be true, Game of Thrones IS a US product. And as regards the market in which they are providing their product, it is illegal to download it. Again, she is talking about people that have the choice to pay for HBO and watch the show and are choosing not to.

    4.) “Acknowledge that the rest of the world exists, that we might have difficulties that you don’t understand because you have never left your insular, little country to see the world from different view points.”

    Misdirected attempt at patronization – SEE ABOVE.

  210. GaR
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Chris,

    A lot of herping and derping going on here.

    It has already been spelled out very clearly that many people in that 34% have no choice. She went on to say that the 34% were precisely the people she was addressing.

    I don’t know what I can possibly add to my rpevious comments about the poll, but it seems there’s not much point since actually reading a thread before commenting jsut doesn’t seem to be a priority for a lot of commenters.

  211. Ed
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    If they can’t afford, they don’t get to watch it. That’s how it’s supposed to work. Not being able to afford something is not license to steal.

    clemintine

    5) Within the States, to some people the extra money to upgrade to HBO is very high for a single show (maybe even the money alone to buy a television and basic cable is a lot to them).

  212. saluk
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Regina Thorne:
    saluk also I get my Internet through my cable company and some of them are already talking about increasing prices for people who use a lot of bandwidth (for example, in downloading or streaming tv show and movies.).

    The sucky thing about this, is that it will affect netflix, youtube, xfinity.com etc as well. The pipes are getting clogged with legal alternatives to illegal downloading :)

    Regina Thorne:

    I’m sure it’s only a matter of time before there is aggressive pursuit of tv downloadeds the way that the music industy went after people who illegally downloaded music and I vaguely remember reading that HBO was pretty aggressively trying to get people not to DL (unsuccessfully perhaps but still the threat is there so it’s something to think about even if legal or ethical arguments hold no sway.).

    And now there are things like pandora, rhapsody etc, giving people a reason not to pirate. Music piracy has dropped tremendously since the release of legal downloads. The tv industry is going to have to adapt to what the public wants. Things like netflix, hulu, etc are a start. Of course, HBO is not on netflix, and you can’t just pay HBO to stream there shows. You have to get it in a package of other things. The content is out of your control. And if you buy that package, with a bunch of things you dont care about, watch an episode of GOT and decide it’s not for you, too bad, you are stuck until your plan runs out.

    When the legal method has so many pitfalls and feels like a scam to many, on top of a cost that they feel is not worth paying for what you get, you are going to have people who say, ‘no, I am going to watch GOT, but not go through all of that hassle. The small risk of having to pay a fine, the stigma that goes along with downloading, the dirty looks that some people may give me when I add to the percentage in a poll that my fellow fans will see, well, it’s better than the alternative.’

    I value your opinions though! Don’t feel I am attacking you or your way of thought, I just have a different perspective on it. Lol I should stop discussing this topic, I always feel the need to write a mini essay on it, and it’s not like I have done any real research or anything. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

  213. Chris
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    GaR,

    I don’t think a point can be made clearer than she made hers, a fact I gathered from “actually reading” the comments. Examples:

    “I’m sorry to hear that people won’t be able to watch the show when it airs because of budgetary concerns but that doesn’t make it ok to illegally download the show because you can’t wait to rent the dvds.

    There’s no way to prevent it, of course, but I think the logic of “I can’t afford this right now but I don’t think I should have to wait until I can” really flies. Sorry!

    No, that didn’t escape my attention at all. But he seems to willfully misunderstand what I am saying which is that I’m guessing that the 34% of people who said in the WIC poll that they would download the show probably DON’T all live in a country where they cannot watch the show by legal means.

    What Eirikur is missing is that my original post was about the person who said they couldn’t afford HBO because they were pinching pennies to buy vegetables with the implication that in these circumstances, illegally downloading the show was ok.

    I daresay not all of them live in places where it’s impossible to watch by legal means!

    OK, let me make this clear again! I was responding to the 34% of the people who claim that they will download the show (and because I think there is a reporting bias I suspect that number is probably significantly higher in real life.) My original comment to which you have responded was about people who said their circumstances were too financially straitened to pay for HBO right now and implied that this justified illegally downloading the show.

    So why shouldn’t I feel resentful that people choose not to pay the price for watching the show now but still want the ability to do so?

    This is just getting silly. It just seems like any time torrenting / downloading is brought up, multiple people come out and attack that person, always using the argument that they don’t have the option to watch the show, and doing so in a patronizing and aggressive manor. This is fine, but the last 2-3 times this argument has broken out, the OP wasn’t even directing their comments towards those people. It’s just getting old.

  214. purplejilly
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    I was a long time supporter and lover of shows that went off the air too early (IMHO), Family Guy and Futurama on Fox, and Firefly. I realized the decisions made by the execs were made based on ratings, and so since I was financially able to, I bought every DVD I could when they were available, and bought extra ones to give to people I knew liked it for holiday presents. In the cases of Family Guy and Futurama, the DVD sales figures convinced Fox to bring the shows back. I sort of wish I’d never helped ressurect Family Guy, though, because Seth McFarlane has gotten so far away from his original comedy and into really stupid, ridiculous areas (Stewie wholeheartedly convincing Brian to eat the poo out of his diaper and lick his A$$ for an entire episode. I mean come on, Seth!) And now his ridiculous empire with the Cleveland Show and American Dad. I just don’t know what happened to the man. I guess fame and booze destroyed him. I can’t watch any of his stuff, haven’t been able to for the last few years now.
    But buying the DVDs for Firefly is whatI believed allowed them to make the closing episode movie, Serenity. (Now that i think of it, Futurama and Firefly are a little bit alike – wacky weekly adventures of a mixed bag crazy crew and captain set in future world and with a great spaceship)
    However, there have been times where I was broke and unemployed or underemployed, and couldnt afford to do those things, and you know, that just is what it is. If you’ve got to make the choice between buying groceries or buying HBO, you have to go with the groceries. I’ve been there, and it’s no fun. There’s a whole lot of people in the US stuck in this place right now, due to the economy.

  215. GaR
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    Chris,

    She targeted people who have no choice. It’s a dick move. If she’d read the thread she’d know that the 34% she hates so much is comprised of people with no bloody choice. Cherry picking comments contradictory to that proves nothing.

    And yeah, I’m going to defend myself when accused of theft. Live with it.

  216. paulgude
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    Ed,

    I’m one of the (it seems) relatively small number of people who can’t afford to subscribe to HBO at the moment but also won’t be downloading it. I was hoping I’d be able to find a job by now, but it looks like it’s not in the cards. While it kills me that I can’t support the show financially now, I also can’t justify watching it by downloading it just because I plan to buy it at a future date.

    I can fully understand why the temptation is there. I’ve been following the progress of the show with the rest of you, but in the end my current financial burden (which is excessive) closes the door to the final pay-off. I’m an older guy now, and a bit more patient. My life is a lot different than it was five years ago. So, I’m putting this on the same level as having to quit drinking coffee, keeping my house at 60 degrees Fahrenheit in the winter, walking to pick up my daughter instead of driving, getting most of my books from the library instead of fresh off the presses, not travelling, not visiting relatives, etc.

    It’s a sad state of affairs for me not being able to see the first episode with the rest of you, but I’ve been waiting for a long time now. I can wait to see it until I finally get hired. It’s not like I’m going to get lost as to where we are in the storyline. I even anticipate being able to catch up on the episodes On-Demand. One of my friends with HBO might actually decide to throw a viewing party.

    Still, if I were in a different place in my life, I could understand how the need to be a part of things could make someone contemplate seeing the show by any means necessary, so as not to be left behind. While waiting is doable, it’s such a let-down.

    In case you’re wondering, I got my computer from a friend and the amount I pay for Internet access is cheaper than taking the bus to the library to look for work every day.

  217. paulgude
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    I should point out that my statements only reflect poor folks living in the USA right now.

    While I think HBO has done a great job ramping up some of the non-USA markets, there are still some folks who don’t know when (if ever) they’re going to get a chance to see the show.

    That’s a whole different deal.

  218. clemintine
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Ed:
    If they can’t afford, they don’t get to watch it.That’s how it’s supposed to work.Not being able to afford something is not license to steal.

    That’s harsh. You try being poor and see how fun it is. Don’t judge others until you’ve walked their shoes.

    But what if they could afford it if HBO released single episodes on the internet for a small fee? Getting a subscription to HBO is all fine and well if you already own a TV and have a comprehensive package, then it’s only a small upgrade. Going from nothing to HBO is a big deal, and being poor in itself is very time consuming, overworking at crap jobs, or trying to find work can take more time than actually having a job, so they mightn’t even have the leisure time to watch all the extra fancy stuff they bought in addition to GoT. The television industry needs to modernize and get with the program. People want to watch shows at times of their own choosing, and watching individual shows of their choice, not pay for a bundle that’s mostly garbage they won’t watch anyways.

  219. MP
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    Steve Hugh Westenra,
    I don’t understand what you mean? So stealing is justified when you can’t pay for something? There are multiple ways to see it. A friend’s house who does have it. The library loans DVDs out now I think, as well.

    I’m currently unemployed…I know EXACTLY how you feel…I won’t be able to see it unless I find a friend who has HBO or I finally get the job I’ve been trying for for months now

  220. paulgude
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    clemintine,

    It was explained to me that HBO would love to be able to offer their shows for sale individually, but their relationship with cable precludes that at the moment.

    I’m already used to waiting an extra six months to buy my games used, so waiting to buy Game of Thrones on DVD is something I’m getting my mind around.

  221. paulgude
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    MP,

    Not to doom and gloom you, but I’ve been unemployed since November of 2009. I’m in the same boat as you. If I can’t get it through legit sources, I’m waiting.

    I’m going to miss being able to discuss it with everyone else, but my fears of it never getting made/released are finally over. Now I’m just hoping we get at least three seasons.

  222. MP
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    paulgude,

    Yeah, it’s bad out there. God luck to you paul

  223. MP
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

    *Good luck

  224. paulgude
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 11:03 pm | Permalink

    MP,

    Thanks, and good luck to you as well. As far as it being bad, I can tell you that I never thought Game of Thrones would be airing before I got a job.

    So, yay…sort of.

  225. Chris
    Posted March 28, 2011 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    Man, that sucks, Paul. Sorry to hear that. I was in your shoes up until 6 months ago, so I can feel for you. We are just finally starting to get out of the hole, and luckily the wife loves True Blood and Big Love because we agreed to cut back on some other things so that we could afford HBO.

    Hope something works out for you and hopefully you can find some way to watch it. You are one of the original posters here so it’s sad you don’t even get to watch it now that it is about to air.

  226. Fire And Blood
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 4:21 am | Permalink

    I’ll weigh in on the stealing / not stealing argument.

    I won’t throw out the general definition of “theft,” which needs to have A. a property that belongs to someone else which is taken without payment and B. the intent to permanently deprive the owner of that property. Because in the case of most internet theft, “B” cannot be satisfied. Downloading something usually does not deprive the owner of that property.

    I’ll go with the more generalized “stealing,” and keep it at that. Basically it’s taking something without paying for it—something that the current owner intends to profit from. Internet theft is stealing, pure and simple. The definition is hard to argue; it’s why the term “piracy” is even attached in the first place. The real question is: does that fact outweigh your moral compass or your desire for the product?

    Ah, and now we get to moral—for lack of a better word—justification. And that sits firmly within the lap of the taker. (Unless caught and prosecuted, of course, upon which time it then moves from the moral to the legal realm.)

    I’m going to compare it to a subject that will no doubt thrill most of you: the pro-life / pro-choice argument. And before the kneejerk Tea Party people come at me, let it be known I usually have both sides pissed off at me when this subject is broached, simply because I refuse to let morals and facts intertwine.

    I believe that purposefully aborting pregnancy is an act of killing. By law abortion is not murder (Roe vs. Wade still stands) but my personal belief is that life begins at conception; there is a living, growing creature residing inside a body, and the termination of its existence equates to the termination of some form of human life. At its most basic form you cannot deny that there is life in a fetus. And sure, “murder” is too strong a word, legally, as “malice of forethought” may not be satisfied … but even the fact that I call it “killing” usually irks the pro-choicers.

    Of course I then proclaim my pro-death stance, which in turn irks the pro-lifers, and … you get where I sit.

    Pro-death? I support the killing of animals and plants for food, as well as support assisted suicides for those who no longer desire to be a part of this world. Furthermore, I am of the opinion that overpopulation is the greatest threat to our future existence as a species, not AIDS, or increased global warming (which is technically a direct result of overpopulation), or any of the other so-called global emergencies-of-the-week that buzz around talk radio and CNN. I look at natural disasters as horrific but inevitable; I give generously to the Red Cross (usually spurred forth by some disaster or another), and generally don’t fret about death. Death is natural; it happens to us all.

    Does that mean I would be blase if some catastrophe were to strike my family or loved ones? Of course not. Having something like that directly affect me is one hundred times worse than seeing it on the television set affecting others.

    And that’s sort of what I’m getting at with the theft argument. In a roundabout way. It comes down to how you feel about it. Killing is killing. Ripping a weed out by its roots is killing, and no one really mourns a weed. Stealing something that doesn’t rob the owner of the product is still stealing; we just don’t care about it as much as the people trying to make the profit.

    Personally I will not steal anything from the internet, certainly not this show, which I want to flourish as a product. But this is because I can afford it and it is available to me. If it wasn’t available to me? And if I were poor?

    That *bleep* would still be mine. By hook or by crook.

    But the moral question stands apart from the facts. If the word “thief” offends your ears, perhaps you should not steal.

    And if you don’t want to be called a killer, well …

    Don’t eat anything.

    You can eat plastic, I guess. Styrofoam. That would be hardcore Save The Earth stuff. Respect!

  227. paulgude
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 4:56 am | Permalink

    Chris,

    Thanks, man.

    I’m holding out that someone I know will have HBO and invite me over for dinner that night or what have you. Sadly, most of my friends are now poor people. Still, I’ll be sending out calls here and there.

    And who knows, maybe I’ll get hired between now and the 15th. It’s got to turn around sometime, right?

  228. Amir Mishali
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    Fire And Blood,

    I am a yes subscriber, and therefore will be able to watch GoT come 21.4. I will probably also buy the dvds when they are out for the cool case and extras :-)

    However, I might still illegally download the pilot episode on 18.4 morning, so I will be able to chime in on the discussions on this website. So, actually, you are to blame for me being a thief :-)

  229. Sawyer
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 5:57 am | Permalink

    Dear readers of Ice and Fire,
    don’t forget what happens to people with moral views.

    Sincerley,
    Ned Stark

    ;-)

  230. Fire And Blood
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 7:40 am | Permalink


    Amir Mishali,

    I’ll take the blame, sure. “This theft was inspired by…”

    Though actually it’s substandard theft if you will eventually buy it. More like … layaway at Wal-Mart.

  231. JDP
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    *sigh*

    Why does being a fan of ASOIAF occasionally breed a peculiarly unrealistic sense of entitlement? No matter how big a fan of the books you may be, you are not entitled to watch HBO’s production of Game of Thrones unless you have paid for it (or can visit someone who has paid for it).

    No matter where you live.

    No matter if you have ‘no other option’.

    No matter if you have read the books 1000 times and can name every House’s sigil and motto that has ever been referenced.

    If you come out snakeyes on the HBO-geographical lottery, well sh!t, that’s bad luck (but on the bright side, if you have the opportunity to download it you probably enjoy the top 25% of human living standards).

    If you plan on downloading it, you plan on stealing it. It’s not a huge deal (there are far worse things going on in the world). But why make excuses rather than calling it what it is? I don’t have a great personal interest in whether anyone here steals it or not, but it annoys me when people get indignant over ‘having no other choice’. Not watching is a choice, even if it’s not one you like.

    In the name of total disclosure, I live in the UK. I don’t have Sky Atlantic, nor shall I subscribe. I know one person who has, and I hope to couch-surf to watch the show, though TBH work and family commitments will likely make this impossible. If that’s the case, I’ll wait for the DVDs to come out then buy them. If they don’t release DVDs, I’ll wait for reruns on regular TV. If there aren’t any reruns, It’s unlikely I’ll get to see the show. That would suck, but my life would go on.

  232. Brian
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Copying is not theft. HBO still “has” GoT no matter how many times it is “stolen”. The only way to steal GoT is go to a bookstore and steal a physical book, or when the DVDs are released, go steal the physical discs. Intellectual property = imaginary property = fiat property = illegitimate.

    I subscribed to HBO last week because I want to support the production of the show, and to have hassle free access to the episodes as they air, not in order to have a license to watch it. Decrying nonsubscribing watchers as “thieves” or “pirates” is to confuse the imaginary with reality.

  233. clemintine
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    JDP: But why make excuses rather than calling it what it is? I don’t have a great personal interest in whether anyone here steals it or not, but it annoys me when people get indignant over ‘having no other choice’. Not watching is a choice, even if it’s not one you like.

    Seeing how HBO or their partners will never make a franc off of me anyways, before the DVDs come out, how is it stealing? I’m not denying them money they could have made off of me. I’m not stopping anyone who can from paying for the product. Stealing implies taking something from them that they can’t get back, but with me downloading it, they can’t make business off of me anyways.

    And if it is broadcast on the television in my country, it’ll be a year later and I’ll have the fantabulous choice of French dubbing, German dubbing, or Italian dubbing, but by then I would have bought the DVD and given them money for their product anyways.

  234. Chris
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    Brian,

    That just isn’t true. There is such a thing as artistic and intellectual property. This is the basis on which plagiarism is defined, as well as other legal definitions that have been around for much longer than the internet has been around.

    When you buy a music CD, you aren’t paying for the physical property, otherwise you would probably be paying about 50 cents. When you buy a book, you aren’t just paying for the paper, etc.

    When you steal a book, the problem isn’t that the distribution company lost the 10 cents worth of paper that it is printed on, the problem is that they are losing the other 15 dollars that are made up of costs that have nothing to do with the physical property.

    There really is no way around it. HBO has spent somewhere around 60 million dollars producing a product and who knows how many million marketing it. They have chosen how they want to distribute this product. The fact that there are other ways of circumventing their choice of distribution – and the fact that you feel that you can morally justify circumventing it – does not negate the fact that it is stealing.

  235. Zack
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Chris: When you steal a book, the problem isn’t that the distribution company lost the 10 cents worth of paper that it is printed on, the problem is that they are losing the other 15 dollars that are made up of costs that have nothing to do with the physical property.

    But a book is a physical thing. When it is stolen, it is truly a lost sale. The ‘it’s not the paper, its the combination of words’ notion is naught but a distraction. That particular physical manifestation of that combination of words cannot be sold to someone else, and it will take time, money and effort to replace it.

    That is lost revenue.

    Downloading bits of data deprives no one of anything. Thus it is not theft. Just as you can’t call it a murder if the victim survives, a theoretical lost sale is not a lost sale.

    You want to gain public sympathy by describing the action in terms favorable to you. “Downloading a movie” without the tag of ‘theft’ doesn’t have that negative association. But downloading a movie is what the act IS. Murder is murder. Embezzling is embezzling. Et cetera.

    Somehow I don’t think HBO’s bean counters are going to sense the difference between a group of 20 people gathering at one person’s house to watch the program, or 19 people downloading it. But if those 19 folks gathered at their paying friend’s house aren’t thieves….

  236. Chris
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    Zack: You want to gain public sympathy by describing the action in terms favorable to you. “Downloading a movie” without the tag of ‘theft’ doesn’t have that negative association. But downloading a movie is what the act IS. Murder is murder. Embezzling is embezzling. Et cetera.

    Well, if you look at it that way… grabbing a book and walking out the door is what the act IS. It’s the paying for it that makes it stealing or not. :)

    Look, clearly there are two sides of this argument that don’t agree with each other, and it probably won’t be changing anytime soon. Hopefully, most people that can support the show, choose to do so. I’ll leave it at that.

  237. Zack
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Chris,

    Fair enough, on both counts. I’d agree that the lack of payment is crucial to the definition of theft, but to me it’s a two-part definition, and without that deprivation of income to someone else, it’s not the same. Who’s to say nobody who uses a torrent does so because despite paying for HBO, their cable goes out due to a storm, or some family emergency arises, or they’re doing it to transfer it from their DVR to their hard drive, or something? I don’t mean to say that in every case using a torrent is morally acceptable. I’m just asking others to see how in not every case is someone doing so nefariously, nor can every case fairly be considered even ‘wrong’. I’m glad the resource is there for people who need it.

    But, certainly there are a lot of cases where they DO lose sales. People who live in areas with programming channels that offer their show, and can afford it but would rather spend the $15 per month HBO subscription on a night of take-out or what have you. As I’ve said, though, even then I’m not really ready to call such behavior ‘theft,’ but it is more difficult to justify.

    tl;dr: I like making judgements on a case-by-case basis. Please pay to watch the show if you are able. (Though not many here probably need to be reminded. I’m seeing people saying they’d be more than happy to pay if it were airing in their country…)

  238. Regina Thorne
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    clemintine: Acknowledge that the rest of the world exists, that we might have difficulties that you don’t understand because you have never left your insular, little country to see the world from different view points.

    Well, perhaps you might acknowledge that you know nothing whatsoever about me from the comments I post on a message board. I happen to have spent about half my life in other countries besides the United States, which is neither small nor insular, technically, thank you very much. And while I’m sorry that people encounter “difficulties” I honestly still don’t think that anyone is entitled to watch a tv show!

  239. Regina Thorne
    Posted March 29, 2011 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    paulgude,

    The best of luck to you, Paul, in your employment search. And I truly hope that you’ll be able to watch the show as it airs, somehow, perhaps through the kindness of friends with HBO. \

  240. paulgude
    Posted March 30, 2011 at 2:54 am | Permalink

    Regina Thorne,

    Thanks!

    A lot can happen in a week or two. We’ll see how things pan out…

  241. JDP
    Posted March 30, 2011 at 4:42 am | Permalink

    Brian: Copying is not theft.

    I made no mention of ‘theft’; I referred to ‘stealing’ :)

    The first is a legal term (which *arguably* copyright infringement isn’t), the latter is the immoral act of ‘appropriating without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully’.

    Zack: You want to gain public sympathy by describing the action in terms favorable to you.

    … as opposed to trying to justify it by saying it’s not technically theft therefore there’s no problem…?

    clemintine: Seeing how HBO or their partners will never make a franc off of me anyways, before the DVDs come out, how is it stealing? I’m not denying them money they could have made off of me.

    It’s stealing because you would be appropriating Game of Thrones without the right or leave of the owners.

    Again, I’m not talking legalese where there are technicalities and loopholes. It’s wrong. I know it’s wrong. You know it’s wrong. It’s wrong because it’s stealing. I’m not trying you in a court of law, I’m just pointing out a fairly fundamental truth: taking something without consent is stealing.

    clemintine: but by then I would have bought the DVD and given them money for their product anyways.

    So if you steal a copy of the show and think it’s awful, you’ll still shell out on the DVD’s? I doubt I’ll buy the DVD’s if it becomes apparent that the show stinks.

    Chris: Look, clearly there are two sides of this argument that don’t agree with each other, and it probably won’t be changing anytime soon. Hopefully, most people that can support the show, choose to do so. I’ll leave it at that.

    Well said, Chris, I’ll shut my trap now :) Apologies if I’ve been ranting.

  242. clemintine
    Posted March 30, 2011 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    JDP: Again, I’m not talking legalese where there are technicalities and loopholes. It’s wrong. I know it’s wrong. You know it’s wrong. It’s wrong because it’s stealing.

    But it’s *not* wrong because I’m not taking any business or money away from them! If I had the option of buying it but didn’t, then it would be stealing.

    Regina Thorne: Well, perhaps you might acknowledge that you know nothing whatsoever about me from the comments I post on a message board. I happen to have spent about half my life in other countries besides the United States, which is neither small nor insular, technically, thank you very much. And while I’m sorry that people encounter “difficulties” I honestly still don’t think that anyone is entitled to watch a tv show!

    Then I apologize because I was guessing by statistics. An alarmingly high percentage of USians never have and never will own a passport or even consider taking a step outside their country for even a single day in their entire life. Your attitude lead me to mistakenly believe that you were one of those USians, because for someone who has done that much travelling, you do come off as being surprisingly US-centric and small minded.

    Hate to burst your bubble here (pun intended) but the US *is * exceptionally insular. Maybe it’s because it’s your own country so you never noticed. Whenever I’m in the States, I feel like I’ve been wrapped up in bubble wrap. On the news, on the TV, on the radio, “America this, American that, Americans blah blah blah” with nary a mention to international events, unless they are really huge. I suppose you guys have heard about the earthquake in Japan? But did you also know that the governments in both Portugal and Canada have just been overthrown last week and they’ll be heading to polls soon? From my time in the States I wouldn’t know what was happening in the world if not for internet. Your movies, your television, your culture everything is US-centric. As soon as I escape I get a flood of information on what I missed in the world while I was in the States.

  243. JDP
    Posted March 30, 2011 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    clemintine: But it’s *not* wrong because I’m not taking any business or money away from them! If I had the option of buying it but didn’t, then it would be stealing.

    It’s not about business or money; it’s about rights.

    Even if they were giving it away but specifically chose not to give it to you, it would still be stealing if you took it (even if you believe their decision to withhold it is unfair or unjustified).

    It is theirs to give (or sell) to whomever they choose, not yours to take.

  244. Gormryjk
    Posted March 30, 2011 at 6:54 am | Permalink
  245. Blackfish Blues
    Posted March 30, 2011 at 6:57 am | Permalink

    Good that this thread is still alive. I spent a while to get sober, from many points of view. Back to one of the original questions: scenes we’re dying to see.

    I WANT MY BLACKFISH. *bawls* When I chose my nickname, I didn’t realize that the “blues” would get so deep. The scene I was dying to see has already been cut: “My home is at my back.” “Your home is in my heart.” Unless they manage to add that exchange in a future BF meeting with Cat. I mean, I’ve got to the point that I read “Blackfish” instead of “flashback”. Somebody at HBO take pity of a trout zombie, plz omg thx.

    Oh, and The Hound = 2 Minutes to Midnight (Iron Maiden)

  246. Steve Reynolds
    Posted March 30, 2011 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    Haven’t posted in a while. Watched the first ep of Camelot last night.

    All I can say is I hope to god GoT is better than THAT.

    I felt both Eva Green and Joseph Fiennes were ott. James Purefoy was being Marc Antony again. I daresay I’ll keep watching it, but I hope that the show remains a poor cousin.


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