Episode 7 – You Win or You Die – New Viewers Recap
By Winter Is Coming on in Recap.

Jon by the weirwood tree

Thrones seems to up the ante with each episode and episode seven is no exception. I suspect each week is bringing more and more surprises for you new viewers. I know our newbie recapper, We Do Not Sow, was surprised at some of the developments in this episode. Read his recap after the break and join in the spoiler-free discussion below!

Spoiler note: This post is intended for new viewers only (book fans can discuss the show here). We ask all the series veterans to refrain from posting spoilers in the comments here, veiled or otherwise. This show is best viewed without knowing all the surprises beforehand, so please be respectful of your new, fellow fans. Thank you!


We Do Not Sow: This past week we had episodes 6 and 7 unveiled in the same night. It was great to have a double serving of GoT this weekend, but wow was there a lot of information to process. Episode 7 I treated a little differently than the last 6 episodes, I was able to watch it once through and reflect on it longer than usual before I wrote this.

So let’s dive right in, the first scene Tywin Lannister is telling Jaime his expectations of the Lannister house, that he wasn’t decisive enough when attacking Ned and what kind of man Jaime should be. I found this scene really eye opening in that Jaime really doesn’t know his place yet and seems to be relying on his father Tywin. I feel like Jamie is being told by his father Tywin, his sister Cersi and others who he should be and he still hasn’t grown out of his “king slayer” nickname. The one line that stuck out for me in Tywin’s rant was “Lannisters don’t act like fools”, to me it means every action any of the Lannisters take is well thought over and planned out, that way they can always be in control of this situation. Here’s hoping that one day they find themselves unprepared. Final thought on this conversation, don’t the Lannisters have enough money for someone else to skin and butcher this deer? I’m just saying.

Finally we get back to the north wall with Jon, Sam, Pyp and the rest of the castaways graduating to their new positions at the wall. To much of everyone’s surprise, Jon doesn’t get picked to be a Ranger but rather a Steward assigned to Commander Mormont himself. So instead of scouting the forests for White Walkers he gets to do laundry, keeps the fires going and other meaningless jobs. Jon was devastated until Sam points out that being a steward to the captain isn’t such a bad thing. He will get to know everything that goes on at the Wall, and throughout the Kingdoms and Sam even points out that they may be grooming Snow as a replacement for the commander down the line. Jon and Sam take their vows and start to celebrate with their new brothers as we get another dire wolf sighting when Ghost brings out a frozen hand and forearm out of the woods. The limb reminds me of how the body parts were laid about in the woods in the first scene of the series.

Across the sea Drogo has a change of heart about his theory that a khal only needs a horse to sit on and not a throne to rule. He changes his mind after one of King Roberts’ men disguised as a local merchant tries to poison his new khaleesi. Jason Momoa really has shown a great range in the last two episodes, there has been some intense scenes that he has done brilliantly.

This brings us to the meat and potatoes of the episode, with all the kings enemies can you believe a boar is what does the king in? Of course we all can, hunting with a spear with a full belly of wine, it was bound to happen. So, instead of telling everyone what they just saw, here is how it sounded in my living room.
“it’s about time Ned, everyone knew those weren’t Roberts kids for a while”, ” oh snap, he just called Queen Cersei out on it!”, “are you kidding me that kid is already on the throne already?”, ” should we be counting how many people sit on the Iron Throne”,” Ned is gonna show the King’s note, and just in care he has little fingers army behind him” , ” she ripped it up, are you kidding??”, ” ha! Good call Ned, we needed these men.” and then ” Nooooo, are you serious? ahh Littlefinger I knew you would screw him, ahhh!!!”

And now I have to wait two weeks for episode 8.

How many of you watched the episode early? Back to back episodes with significant deaths, with three episodes left, who’s next? Viewers let me hear what you you thought of the last two episodes and more importantly what do you think will happen with three episodes left?


45 Comments

  1. Jason Willis
    Posted May 29, 2011 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

    haha where is the review

  2. Katrina Brooks
    Posted May 29, 2011 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

    My sister saw this episode before me (I wasn’t home right when it aired) and she texted her reaction to me:

    “Gasp, Littlefinger is a big jerk (angry smiley). Also, Bran and Arya weren’t in it (sad smiley). Finally, go epic Drogo speech thing to protect Dany.

    So yeah, a heavy episode for a non reader to take in.

  3. Last Remaining Stark
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 12:20 am | Permalink

    Heh, shit has hit the fan.

  4. sherrie culver
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 12:33 am | Permalink

    Wow! I just watched episode 7 and it was great! I’ve only watched about 5 episodes , so sometimes I get a little confused about what’s going on. The guy in the end that screwed Stark is so creepy, but pays it well. I also love the acting of the guy that plays Drogo -he’s bad and damn sexy!Ican’t wait for next week!

  5. Mick J
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 4:29 am | Permalink

    Littlefinger with that shit-eating grin …. love it. Each cliffhanger ending gets better each episode.

  6. jellydonut
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    ‘Final thought on this conversation, don’t the Lannisters have enough money for someone else to skin and butcher this deer? I’m just saying.’

    It’s called a hobby, dude. Surely even Lord Tywin Lannister enjoys *something* in life besides being all-rich, all-powerful and evil in general. ^ ^

  7. Christian Delbove
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    Craaaaaazy, some rich dudes actually like to do stuff with their hands, duh…

    Besides that, as usual, a good read :p

  8. Vellyr
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    Well the stag-skinning is also D&D’s idea of “subtle” symbolism. I think that’s the main reason it was there.

  9. Arya for President
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    So much info to suck in… I think I might need to rewatch both episode 6 & 7 again, I’m sure I missed something. Love watching it on HBO Go though!!!

    I feel bad for Jon, he’s the best kid up there on the wall, but he’s gotta be an old man’s steward, that sounds awful! Grooming him for command or not that’s got to suck.

    Go Drogo! And I have to agree super sexy! Can’t wait to see if they actually cross the narrow sea, if so Joffery is horse meat!! They will rip him and the seven kingdoms apart!! I would watch my back if I was Joffery he’s piling up enimies faster then the snow winter.

    While I knew in my heart that Ned shouldn’t have trusted Littlefinger I was still shocked at the end… Can’t believe it! Stupid Littlefinger! Poor Noble Ned! Sucks being a noble and honest person in a world of deceitful people!

    Can’t wait to see how the rest of it unfolds!

    So Sad Arya wasn’t in this one!

  10. Targaryen Bannerman
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    7 hells! After the episode was over the only thing I could say and kept saying over and over was “you sonofabitch, I knew it”.

    I didn’t like Jon Snow’s tantrum about being named a steward. I understand it but the fact that not 5 mins earlier, he was telling Sam there “is honor in that” but when he is assigned to them as well he goes off about it being a glorified maid service. Very “Joffry-esque” attitude that makes my skin crawl. More so as derragtory to his friends and voids the sincerity to make Sam feel better. He did come back down to earth but very ugly side of his character.

    I did like Sam standing up for his decision to take the Black at the weirwood with Jon. He was timid and his voice was trembling but he didn’t back down. Big step forward for him.

    Speaking of weirwood, I couldn’t take my gaze away from the tears of blood running down the face in the tree. There has to be a reason for it and would love to know why because to my recollection the one in Winterfell did not have any. Was the blood put there as a sign of symbolism and if so, symbol of what? Did the tree really cry blood and if so why? Is it because Winter is Coming, or perhaps for the new initiates of the Black Brotherhood who are doomed in one way or another? Very intriguing to me and yet may mean nothing at all in the grand scheme of things…

    Can’t tell how I feel about Jaime Lannister. On the one hand, it’s hard to like a guy who throws a young boy (especially one as immediately likeable as Brann) off of a tower. Even harder, is one who is actively banging his twin sister. On the other hand, his fierce loyalty to his family, especially Tyrion is something I respect. Furthermore, I am sort of sympathetic towards him regarding his “Kingslayer” issue. He is mocked, ridiculed and his honor is called into question surrounding his killing of the mad king, the highest form of treason and dishonor for someone sworn to protect the king. However, when Robert asked him why, his eyes go into that “100-yard stare” like war vets get when recalling traumatic experiences and says that the last thing the mad king said before Jaime killed him “the same thing he had been saying for hours. Burn them all.” I think he is torn between duty and being honorable, and satisfying the desires of being a Lannister and being in love with the ultimate black widow of Westeros.

    As always, will wrap with what is going on in the world of the Targaryen (singluar now lol). Ser Mormont set her up as evidenced by the pardon he received, although perhaps not since the message came from the Spider who I think is working the behind the scenes angles to benefit the return of Targaryen rule. I think Jorah has fully commited to serving her now regardless of where his loyalties were previously. Now that Drogo is pissed it’s going to be on, time to cross the narrow sea and tear it up. FIRE AND BLOOD!

  11. Alice Moore
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    jellydonut,

    It gives him time to reflect, relax, and contemplate his conquering of the world.

  12. vibemoother
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    Targaryen Bannerman:
    7 hells! After the episode was over the only thing I could say and kept saying over and over was “you sonofabitch, I knew it”.

    I didn’t like Jon Snow’s tantrum about being named a steward. I understand it but the fact that not 5 mins earlier, he was telling Sam there “is honor in that” but when he is assigned to them as well he goes off about it being a glorified maid service.Very “Joffry-esque” attitude that makes my skin crawl. More so as derragtory to his friends and voids the sincerity to make Sam feel better. He did come back down to earth but very ugly side of his character.

    I did like Sam standing up for his decision to take the Black at the weirwood with Jon. He was timid and his voice was trembling but he didn’t back down. Big step forward for him.

    Speaking of weirwood, I couldn’t take my gaze away from the tears of blood running down the face in the tree. There has to be a reason for it and would love to know why because to my recollection the one in Winterfell did not have any. Was the blood put there as a sign of symbolism and if so, symbol of what? Did the tree really cry blood and if so why? Is it because Winter is Coming, or perhaps for the new initiates of the Black Brotherhood who are doomed in one way or another? Very intriguing to me and yet may mean nothing at all in the grand scheme of things…

    Can’t tell how I feel about Jaime Lannister. On the one hand, it’s hard to like a guy who throws a young boy (especially one as immediately likeable as Brann) off of a tower. Even harder, is one who is actively banging his twin sister. On the other hand, his fierce loyalty to his family, especially Tyrion is something I respect. Furthermore, I am sort of sympathetic towards him regarding his “Kingslayer” issue. He is mocked, ridiculed and his honor is called into question surrounding his killing of the mad king, the highest form of treason and dishonor for someone sworn to protect the king. However, when Robert asked him why, his eyes go into that “100-yard stare” like war vets get when recalling traumatic experiences and says that the last thing the mad king said before Jaime killed him “the same thing he had been saying for hours. Burn them all.” I think he is torn between duty and being honorable, and satisfying the desires of being a Lannister and being in love with the ultimate black widow of Westeros.

    As always, will wrap with what is going on in the world of the Targaryen (singluar now lol). Ser Mormont set her up as evidenced by the pardon he received, although perhaps not since the message came from the Spider who I think is working the behind the scenes angles to benefit the return of Targaryen rule. I think Jorah has fully commited to serving her now regardless of where his loyalties were previously. Now that Drogo is pissed it’s going to be on, time to cross the narrow sea and tear it up. FIRE AND BLOOD!

    Good insights. Some book readers in the other threads complain that the motivations and personality of various characters are being forced with heavy-handed scenes. Posts like these re-affirm my trust that those running the show are handling the unenviable task of distilling the essence of the characters with deft judgment. You have gleaned a lot of things that took hundreds of pages across multiple books to get across and the insertion of the glimpses that lead you to these conclusions were done purposely by the writers of the show.

    Also, the amount of depth each character has is evident in the way you deconstruct them (even the “good” players have flaws and the “bad” players show redeeming traits). It is good to see this kind of layered assessment from the viewpoint of those just watching the show, because that is what we love so much about the novels and one of the things we feared we would lose in the adaptation.

  13. Markcb
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    Targaryen Bannerman:
    Speaking of weirwood, I couldn’t take my gaze away from the tears of blood running down the face in the tree. There has to be a reason for it and would love to know why because to my recollection the one in Winterfell did not have any. Was the blood put there as a sign of symbolism and if so, symbol of what? Did the tree really cry blood and if so why? Is it because Winter is Coming, or perhaps for the new initiates of the Black Brotherhood who are doomed in one way or another? Very intriguing to me and yet may mean nothing at all in the grand scheme of things…

    The liquid on the interior of these trees (I think it’s called “sap” in English) is red, don’t worry, this is not a mystery ;-)

  14. Mirax
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Targaryen Bannerman: I didn’t like Jon Snow’s tantrum about being named a steward. I understand it but the fact that not 5 mins earlier, he was telling Sam there “is honor in that” but when he is assigned to them as well he goes off about it being a glorified maid service. Very “Joffry-esque” attitude that makes my skin crawl. More so as derragtory to his friends and voids the sincerity to make Sam feel better. He did come back down to earth but very ugly side of his character.

    I don’t think it’s Joffrey-esque for a couple of reasons.
    1. While it could be condescending, Jon and Sam both know that Sam would be a terrible ranger. It would be rude for Jon to say something to his friend pointing out that he could never be a ranger anyway because he’s an admitted coward.
    2. Jon just found out that the thing he’s dreamt about has been denied to him. I think Jon is very proud, and has a hard time of it because he’s a bastard. He wanted to join the Night’s Watch as a ranger so that he could prove to everyone that he’s just as good, and at the same time be doing what he told himself was a necessary task, protecting the whole kingdom from the things beyond the Wall. Something anyone could be proud of. Not only was his vision of the Night’s Watch not true, now he doesn’t even get the chance to prove himself as a swordsman? I’d probably be off sobbing if I was about to sign a contract for life being this close to my dream, but not allowed to do it.

    Also, Jon calms down when Sam talks to him, whereas Joffrey lies, get’s a boy killed, and is overall just horrible, all because a couple of girls saw him saw him act like an idiot and get knocked over by a wolf.

    Pretty much agree with the rest of your comments. I just think Joffrey is so vile (fantasticly acted, btw) that I have to speak up in Jon’s defense.

  15. Targaryen Bannerman
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Markcb: The liquid on the interior of these trees (I think it’s called “sap” in English) is red, don’t worry, this is not a mystery

    Thank you for your feedback. Although, I wonder why “sap” (did I get that right? Just checking because I would not want to offend your seemingly superior intellect) was only coming from the eyes and only from the weirwood in the wildlands and not the one in Winterfell.

    So again looking for symbolism. But thanks for being a douche-bag troll, your insight is amazing!

  16. Targaryen Bannerman
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    Mirax: I don’t think it’s Joffrey-esque for a couple of reasons.1. While it could be condescending, Jon and Sam both know that Sam would be a terrible ranger. It would be rude for Jon to say something to his friend pointing out that he could never be a ranger anyway because he’s an admitted coward.2. Jon just found out that the thing he’s dreamt about has been denied to him. I think Jon is very proud, and has a hard time of it because he’s a bastard. He wanted to join the Night’s Watch as a ranger so that he could prove to everyone that he’s just as good, and at the same time be doing what he told himself was a necessary task, protecting the whole kingdom from the things beyond the Wall. Something anyone could be proud of. Not only was his vision of the Night’s Watch not true, now he doesn’t even get the chance to prove himself as a swordsman? I’d probably be off sobbing if I was about to sign a contract for life being this close to my dream, but not allowed to do it.Also, Jon calms down when Sam talks to him, whereas Joffrey lies, get’s a boy killed, and is overall just horrible, all because a couple of girls saw him saw him act like an idiot and get knocked over by a wolf.Pretty much agree with the rest of your comments. I just think Joffrey is so vile (fantasticly acted, btw) that I have to speak up in Jon’s defense.

    Yeah, maybe Joffrey-esque was a bit harsh. I was thinking more the tantrum side of it. I do understand losing his cool, just thought he was better than that in the sense of not belittling his friends. I think the fact that he does blow off some steam but quickly returns to being the even-tempered Jon is more endearing and real though.

  17. stu
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Last Remaining Stark,

    I actually thought some episode ago, one of the episodes coming up could easily be called something like this:

    new episode names
    7 “You Win or You Die”
    8 “The Pointy End”
    9 “The Shit hits the Fan”
    10 “Fire and Blood”

  18. Nigel Tufnel
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    The other reason Jon is upset at not being named a ranger is that his Uncle Benjen’s horse has just come back from north of the wall by itself. As a ranger, Jon could find out what happened to him, or perhaps rescue him if he’s still alive. As a steward, he can’t.

  19. Alex Harman
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Targaryen Bannerman,

    Have an American Privilege Prize for not considering the possibility that Markcb might have written “I think it’s called ‘sap’ in English” not out of sarcasm, but because English actually isn’t his (or her, can’t assume gender from username on the net) first language and he actually wasn’t sure it was the right word. If that’s the case, then you’re the douchebag troll here for reacting the way you did.

    In any case, I don’t think you can read too much into the sap coming from eyes of the weirwood north of the wall simply because we never got a good enough look at the face on the Winterfell heart tree to be sure it wasn’t there as well. It appears D&D have been deliberately holding back on showing us one of the faces in the trees in detail, probably to increase the impact of this scene.

    Also, regarding the opening scene of Lord Tywin butchering the stag — let’s not forget which House takes the stag as it’s sigil. There some heavy symbolism for you….

  20. Mr Bojangles
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Concerning my best/worst of this weeks episode and observations:
    - Tywin Lannister seems to be a man of his word. Should’ve been a traumatising childhood for the twins and the imp.
    - Prior sex scenes we’re actually fun, since there always seemed to be a point. Except for confirming my suspicions about Littlefinger I found it to be too forced. Not that the acting was bad, it just seemed an odd scene to me (the first of the series for me).
    - Liked the Wall scenes, a little breather to survive the quick burst of events at Kings Landing. Guess Benjen’s hand has been found.
    - Noooooooooooooooooooooooo, Mark Addy…kind off saw the death of Robert coming (he was a trainwreck of a king) but not by a fricking pig and certainly not offscreen. In the end the king seemed at peace with his end, probably glad his reign was over and hoping for some kind of Valhalla to hunt boars all day long. Kudos to Addy for a wonderful performance. The most memorable role of the season for me personally.
    - Ned getting into a world of shit. The man just can’t help himself and is starting to irk me. His nobility almost reeks of arrogance and I wonder if his condition isn’t impairing his better judgement. Arya is still in the castle (or did they leave offscreen?), so why is he trying to lose the game of thrones? It could cost his daughter her life. Ned doesn’t strike me as the guy who would choose a principle over his daughters life (I don’t give a fuck about the other brat). Anyway I’m all for team Littlefinger. Atleast he is playing the game of thrones the right way (and one hell of a pimp apparently).
    - Drogo’s speech was awesome. I assume the crappy assassin was some sort of ploy to enrage the barbarian king. Varris seems to be in cohoots (sp?) with the bearded fellow who introduced Daenarys to Drogo. And Varris told Ned he was an honourable man. In some strange way I think the eunuch told the truth. I can’t wait for the next episode. This show has a way of blindsiding you, even when you are expecting certain things.

  21. Argilac the Arrogant
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Targaryen Bannerman: Thank you for your feedback. Although, I wonder why “sap” (did I get that right? Just checking because I would not want to offend your seemingly superior intellect) was only coming from the eyes and only from the weirwood in the wildlands and not the one in Winterfell.So again looking for symbolism. But thanks for being a douche-bag troll, your insight is amazing!

    Whoa whoa whoa. I read through this thread and when I got to Markcb’s post, I did not find anything in it that seemed like he thought he was superiorly intelligent or douchbaggy. He was answering your question. Perhaps you read the text with the wrong tone.

    Please don’t be so quick to label and judge people just because they answered your question.

  22. Morlun
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Mr Bojangles- Prior sex scenes we’re actually fun, since there always seemed to be a point. Except for confirming my suspicions about Littlefinger I found it to be too forced. Not that the acting was bad, it just seemed an odd scene to me (the first of the series for me).

    (…)

    Anyway I’m all for team Littlefinger. Atleast he is playing the game of thrones the right way (and one hell of a pimp apparently).

    Agreed with the first. That seemed like sex just for sex’s sake, to fulfill the episode’s quota. Not to mention Littlefinger confiding in a couple of prostitutes… clearly not his brightest idea.

    LOL @ the second. You have got to love Littlefinger. He tells you you can trust him right to your face, and he still manages to blindside you. :)

    Anyway, count me as another reader who’d rather come here and read the non-readers’ insight. Too much negativity elsewhere.

    I confess I was letting my having read the books ruin the show for me, not in a sense of “they have done this differently! *HATE*“, but because my mind kept wandering into what I knew came next, and how the new pieces fit, and how they could compensate for the missing pieces…

    Now I just sit back and enjoy the show, and don’t try to over-think it.

  23. Jenna
    Posted May 30, 2011 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    Great episode – thanks for another fun recap WDNS. When introduced to Tywin skinning the stag, immediately thought of the symbolism in regards to the Baratheons, loved it. I too thought the sex scene with Roz was odd and out of place in the episode. While being far from a prude, I thought it was a bit too much, maybe a turnoff to new viewers just picking up the show? It had no point and just put in there to fill the sex quota. Oh well. Anyway, loved the scene with Khal Drogo speaking in Dothraki, what a powerful scene. And Littlefinger – hmmhmmhmm, he was definitely shifty and I just waiting to see if he was on Ned’s side or not. Can’t wait to see next week’s episode. I really missed Tyrion in this one.

  24. John Stark
    Posted May 31, 2011 at 1:51 am | Permalink

    vibemoother,

    After the early episode 7 weekend I just couldn’t bare the wait. So i started reading the ibook, 600 pages + and i still haven’t caught up to the series, reading as i watch has been great actually. And so far the series is pretty much dead on with the book. Besides 2 very small tweeks made by the series everything is right so far the thing is its so much to learn about the characters that it just cant fit in a TV show. A great way to watch is HBOgo with features on does more breaking down of the characters and locations like reading the book can do for you.

    Im loving this series and this story, Im conflicted now with choosing to read on or wait to see the next episode…. Problems, problems…

  25. KG
    Posted May 31, 2011 at 3:09 am | Permalink

    Wait and watch the episode :) More fun that way.

  26. Red
    Posted May 31, 2011 at 6:10 am | Permalink

    What an episode! Everything was great in this episode. It made me sad that there is only three more coming up, or three more books of story line after that.

    A big kudos to Jason Momoa and the gang for “the speech” scene. Brutal performance! The dude was embodied raging testosterone. Reminded me of those musting elephants tied to poles. Articulate a ficticious language and make it such a successful war rally, what great acting, directing and editing!

    So on to one thing that made me go “aha!”. During episode 6, the other Lannister boy (the young one that was always with Robert), didn’t Robert or someone (during episode 6) say something about how great was he doing at keeping the wine coming? And then (during episode 7), wasn’t there a remark about how the wine had been stronger than usual? That leads me to think that Robert’s death was not necessarily an accident. Who could be? Robert’s brother wants to be king, he could have spiked the wine and paid the young Lannister (who’s playing a good role of being a “ghost”), but it doesn’t look like he (Robert’s brother) is that bright. The Lannisters obviously seek total domination, but this move seems untimely, it seems that they had a lot of room to operate and that to kill him now they would have had their hand forced, improbably to me. The skinning of the stag could be read as a plan set in motion, but to me it’s rather a calm and patient big scale set of events, instead. Other smaller players may have planned Robert’s death too, but to me, it was Littlefinger all along.

    I won’t say “oh yeah, I saw it coming from the beginning”. Nope, I was duped as Ned Stark was duped. I went in believing that one had to trust someone at some point. Now sadly, I think Ned’s strict adherence to what-is-right will kill him. How can Littlefinger be more than Ned Stark (as he asked during a previous scene)? By using Ned’s weakness for morality I guess. Someone remarked about the timing of his bringing Ned Stark to see Robert’s one bastard soon and then finding Jaime outside. Too well timed. To me, he is using the Lannisters whole power, just to take down Ned Stark and show Cat that he’s not “just a boy”.

  27. ThatMatthew
    Posted May 31, 2011 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Targaryen Bannerman,

    I think you’ve revealed yourself as the actual douche bag in the thread. Take it down a notch or go somewhere else.

  28. ThatMatthew
    Posted May 31, 2011 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    Apparently Ned’s guards should all wear red tunics, since they all get killed.

    Why did King Robert make everyone leave the room before he said that he wanted Ned to rule? Wouldn’t it be better to have witnesses for that? It seemed really weird that he would trust his hated wife and punk son to take Ned’s word for it.

    Drogo’s speach was really good, and I liked that Daenerys was really into it. She has really embraced the Dothraki way.

    I’m a strait 18- to 34-year-old male, and even I think that there’s too much sex in this show. It’s honestly distracting. I know there is sex in the books, but still. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. Especially because I heard that the scene with Littlefinger and the whores wasn’t even in the books.

    Man, only three episodes left, and so many ongoing plots. Something better get resolved by the end of the season!

    P.S. I don’t miss Viserys at all.

  29. Amy
    Posted May 31, 2011 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Argh! I can’t trust anybody on this show! I felt just as surprised and betrayed as Ned must have felt. I’m so angry at everyone! I hate that stupid Cersei and her creepy son. And Littlefinger! Why!?!

  30. bk753
    Posted May 31, 2011 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    I have a question here… Seems Jon and Sam (having opted for taking their oath north of The Wall) were given their assignments as “stewards” prior to making the trip outside the fortress. Learning that his dream of being a Ranger had been squashed, could he have left his service then, having not taken his oath, and walked away forever from the Watch? Did anyone wonder if that might happen??

  31. No Raven For You!
    Posted May 31, 2011 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    ThatMatthew:
    Apparently Ned’s guards should all wear red tunics, since they all get killed.

    P.S. I don’t miss Viserys at all.

    RE: Tunic color choices – Nice one!

    I do sort of miss Viserys – at least you knew what you were going to get. All these other plot twists and turns have my heart in my throat.

    By the Seven, I think I have more questions than answers after this episode! As soon as King B died (RIP Robert, and I wish the 7 Kingdoms were in better shape when you passed), it was as if all of these planets that had been held in place by the force of his presence went spinning off in every which direction.
    So, before Robert is brought back to Kings Landing after his ill-fated boar hunt, Ned tells Cersei his beliefs about the parentage of Joffrey. GULP! He seemed to want to give her a “head start” before he told Robert, because Ned felt sure that Robert would come gunning for Cersei. Who is he trying to spare? If his primary motivation is to avoid bloodshed, the course of action he took with that ‘uh, yeah, Cersei? I know about you and your brother, AND who the real father of Joffrey is!’ speech seemed destined to result in war between House Baratheon and House Lannister. If he waits and tells the King after Robert returns, then Cersei and Joffrey could be seized and some arrangement negotiated with the Lannisters. Epic Fail.
    He forgot what Cersei seems to know in her bones – ‘kill your enemies.’
    Ned then sends a letter to Robert’s brother Stannis (whom we have never met, and who seems little liked), I assume to inform him of the situation in KL. Littlefinger is summoned and tells Ned to seize Cersei and Joffrey, but how would that help? Instead, Ned asks Littlefinger to support him as he sets Stannis Baratheon on the Iron Throne, using the ‘gold capes’ (City Watch).
    So Ned’s brilliant scheme is to put C & J under house arrest, and wait for Stannis to arrive. Renley catches wind of this and flees south with his lover Loras Tyrell, heading towards…? Why is Ned surprised when Littlefinger basically says ‘yeah, that plan you told me about, the one that requires my cooperation to pull off? Not. Gonna. Happen.’ Again – EPIC FAIL. Good luck, Ned. You are going to need it.

  32. Hear Me Roar
    Posted May 31, 2011 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    bk753,

    That was a possibilty, it certainly felt like Jon was considering it until Sam shed some light on the situation and effectively convinced him to stay.

  33. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 1, 2011 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Tbh anybody in his position ( I mean any polititian in his right mind) would’ve have done the same that Littlefinger did. Ned should have listen to him, his plan was a very sensible one, imo.

  34. I Know of Fear
    Posted June 2, 2011 at 2:09 am | Permalink

    I came away from this episode with nothing but questions.

    I don’t get why both Renly and Littlefinger both suggested leaving Joffrey as prince before suggesting Renly take the throne. Then again, I don’t know how those 2 knew that Ned was named protector of the realm despite most of the court not knowing what was in the sealed letter. And why did Robert tell Ned not to present the letter to the court until after he died?

    Why did Robert decide not to have Dany killed? Was it just to give credibility the new protector of the realm, the only man who disagreed with the king and his court?

    Drogo has decided to invade the 7kingdoms, but didn’t he already agree to do just that in exchange for Dany? Why did he make that agreement (and what was so special about Dany) if he had no plans to actually invade with Viserys.

    Mye favorite moment from the episode was of course the Drogo’s speech. The most powerful army (so far) is about to mobilize just as Westeros is on the brink of civil war. My second favorite moment was Lord Lannister explaining his feelings toward his Tyrion and Jaime, especially when he placed his bloody hand on Jaime’s cheek.

  35. Mr Bojangles
    Posted June 2, 2011 at 3:29 am | Permalink

    @I know of fear

    I thought Renly told Ned to take Joffrey as hostage to keep Cersei at bay. Concerning Renly/Littlefinger (and probably Varrys too) they seem to have extraordinary spies (maybe someone was hiding under the bed ;-) ).
    With Danaerys, I think Robert just wanted to do one good deed before death, as most dying leader will do. Like insurance that he doesn’t go the hell-version of Westeros. Drogo just wanted a taste of some different meat. I guess the Dothraki are not very interested in keeping promises that involve going to (a for them) fictitious land.

  36. No Raven For You!
    Posted June 2, 2011 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    I Know of Fear,

    And why did Robert tell Ned not to present the letter to the court until after he died?

    Apparently to insure civil war? Again, King Robert proves himself a less than stellar strategist.

    Drogo has decided to invade the 7kingdoms, but didn’t he already agree to do just that in exchange for Dany?

    I think he agreed to provide an army for Viserys Targ to lead into battle in exchange for Dany’s hand in marriage. Subtle difference. I think the issue is mostly a matter of timing: “A Khal always pays his debts (at the time and place of his choosing)” vs. “You tried to kill my bride, and I am coming to Westeros with a special order of Horde-In-A-Box.”

  37. JMMelo
    Posted June 2, 2011 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    ThatMatthew:
    Apparently Ned’s guards should all wear red tunics, since they all get killed.

    Are you saying that because of the blood, or just to try and confuse all those Lannister spears coming at them?

    If it is because of the blood, curiously, that`s why the British used to have read coats :D I suppose the French would have brown pants, then :P

  38. Steven Swanson
    Posted June 2, 2011 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    JMMelo,

    It’s a reference to “red shirts” from Star Trek, how if there was some random crewman in a red shirt in a group you’d know he was going to get killed. “Red shirt” is now a common term for an expendable extra.

  39. I Know of Fear
    Posted June 2, 2011 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    Mr Bojangles,

    I got the impression that Renly was willing to let Joffrey keep his title of prince but without any actual power. He was at least reluctant to nominate himself for king. But what you say makes a lot more sense.

    No Raven For You!,

    Drogo is definately out for revenge now, I just can’t tell what he was out for before his pregnant wife was in danger.

    Now I want to see how the death of the king will affect things at The Wall.

  40. Mirax
    Posted June 3, 2011 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    I Know of Fear,

    Mr Bojangles,

    I don’t believe Renly knows what Ned does about Joffrey, I just think he recognized how horrible it would be for the realm to have either Joffrey truly ruling or Cersei ruling through him. I think he was just suggesting capturing Joffrey to use him as a pawn to control the Lannister’s and gain a bit of power for himself without actually having to dethrone the “true” king. As for him knowing that Ned was named the Protector of the Realm… Robert obviously loved Ned more than anyone, Renly knew that. It would make sense to assume he would give Ned that position. I had the impression that he only put himself forward as king because Ned suggested his brother Stannis, who Renly apparently finds very lacking.

    As for why both Littlefinger and Renly would suggest leaving Joffrey in place — I assume it’s because an uncontested succession is easier to deal with than an actual dethroning. If you can be the power behind the power, I think most people would be willing to pretend that Joffrey was still in control and let things be. On the other hand, if the throne is contested, that sort of thing would typically mean kidnapping other nobles to keep them out of the running, if not outright war. Either option is costly and runs the risk of death for a lot of people.

  41. loco73
    Posted June 3, 2011 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    ” I am the sword in the darkness, I am the watcher on The Wall…” wow, that gave me goosebumps, just listenning to Jon Snow say those words when he took The Black…so wonderful and poetic!

    Kit Harington has done an amazing job, because Jon Snow is one of my favourite characters on the show, of course the other is everybody’s favourite drinking and whoring imp… Tyrion…I bow down before Peter Dinklage!

    I love the show in its entirety, but for me the scenes in the North, especially those with Jon Snow, the Night’s Watch, The Wall etc., are extra special!

  42. No Raven For You!
    Posted June 3, 2011 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    loco73,

    Esp. since the Wall was MIA for a few episodes there.

    Man, I hope that isn’t Benjen’s hand that Ghost is bringing back to Jon. Even if it isn’t Benjen’s hand, if it twitches I am going to freak out.

  43. RyanLapesky
    Posted June 5, 2011 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Targaryen Bannerman,

    Most heart trees have bloody sap tears actually.

  1. [...] Spoiler Note: This post is for those who have read the first book. As such the post itself and the comments will contain spoilers. The new viewer recap and discussion thread can be found here. [...]

  2. [...] deset minut današnje epizode tudi zanje ena velika boksa v vampe? Nek “novinec” je na WiC.net odlično povedal: “7 hells! After the episode was over the only thing I could say and kept [...]


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