Gwendoline Christie is Brienne

i’m sure they will “TV ugly” her to an extent

great casting choice!

I think she’ll be perfect. Come on, next April!

I like Brienne. I’m happy with this choice. A little prettier than I imagined her to be, but I’m ok with it. I hope they give her some good sword fighting lessons…

Because I am so ready to see Brienne KICK SOME ASS!

I like how GRRM confirmed this when so many people are probably asleep haha.

Obviously appearance is incredibly subjective.

IE. I don’t find her hot, but she is too pretty to be Brienne, not hard to do, but as others have said its fixable, and shes close enough.
I haven’t actually seen her in anything to comment on acting

Like Christie as Brienne, she isn’t to pretty, so w/o makeup will be fine. I watched a few clips awhile back of a few performances, she is a very talented actor. NCW is what 6’2.5 so she’s just a hair taller, perfect. Thumbs up!

Another great casting choice!

The make-up artists and costume designers must really be looking forward to the challenge of making her ugly. I can’t wait to see her in makeup, teeth and a suit of armor. Time to earn those technical Emmys for next year, because this Brienne is a bonafide beauty. :)

Nothing like preemptively judging a performance you haven’t seen. Based on…?

JH,

The Scene’s and Interview’s that I’ve managed to find, Heck hope i’m wrong

Dekar:
First

(for the first time)

Nice casting

woops..more like 2nd! :)

Seems like good choice to me. Not that it really matters since I hate Brienne with a passion.

Id rather them have a pretty actress and ugly her up with makeup, than the other way around.

Gwendoline!! I have wanted her to play Brienne for so long! Im so happy she got the role! She is perfect!!

She’s pwetty. :D

That youtube-clip ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1W5klIT7dg ) is really all the convincing i need regarding her having about the right look.

Maybe just a touch of uglyfying-makeup or simply a lack of makeup and she’ll stand out quite a bit from the other women of the series. Oh, and fake teeth should do wonders! Plus the fact that she’s taller than NCW (!), will be wearing armour and have her hair made up to look greasy and unkempt, she’ll easily be unpretty enough. I don’t need her to be a total scarecrow.

Oh, and she’s got those pretty big eyes! How lucky are we – seriously! I guess i just assume she can do the part justice actingwise, for the simple reason that she’s cast.

Very happy with this casting news! :)
Can’t wait to see Brienne onscreen!

I guess it was kind of obvious after Eva Damen beeing too short for the role. I’m not definitely sold on Mrs. Christie. Maybe she’ll blow me away onscreen but until that I demand more casting clues asap.

Btw, only 76kg for 1m91? Better train on some muscle dear Gwendoline! :)

I don’t think she’s particularly pretty. I think the picture of her posted above just happens to be a flattering one (it’s a professional headshot, after all). She has the right level of unattractiveness necessary for the role, once the awkwardness and mannish qualities become present in the character…

Hmm she’s too pretty and a bit too old as well, I think…but than again it’s a lot easier to “ugly up” someone pretty than the other way around. Also a felt 90% of the cast is already older than in the books so she’ll fit right in.
She’s tall -that’s a plus, of course…though I somehow doubt that she will build up the necessary muscle for the role.

Still, she’s probably the best choice for her character. A 100% Brienne is almost impossible to cast.

For those who missed that in the Brienne casting post, here’s an example of Gwendoline’s (stage) acting (starts at 1:44), followed by a nice interview (stops at 3:56):

Moe,

Gwendoline’s pic from above just screams innocence to me. Those eyes…!

Now I can finally rest since they’ve cast the BeSt actress to play my second favourite character in the books. HBO continues to amaze me.

If anyone has any misgivings about the decision making abilities of the casting team at this point, well just take a look at season 1. Stable boys aside that cast was bloody terriffic and most of them unknowns. Even those who were met with sheer skepticism at first won over the majority of us in the end. Have some faith!

I think she looks great, a solid choice for Brienne. Maybe they will ugly up? George said she came to her audition looking more like Brienne than her photo there, so maybe she can do without.

Nice to get some casting news again. Anyone else think they will hold Stannis and Mel back for comi-con if they are big names?

Not my favourite, second favourite maybe but not my favourite. I trust HBO (and Gwendoline) will make it work though… after all Arya is not horse-face in the series, it worked (more than worked) Tyrion is not ugly, it worked… etc… She won’t be bulky, or ugly, or even masculine as she should be, but she certainly is tall! I guess they’ll focus on that for the character. Thanks for the news…

Grinbomb:
Well I can’t say I’m overjoyed that they kept the character, but as long as we have her I don’t think her looks matter very much. The fact that she is a women in a feudal society will be enough for the writers to work with.Once the show aired not many people were overly upset that they didn’t ugly up Peter Dinklage

Your not overjoyed that they left in a major character? Seriously? Why the hell would they drop her from the story that would be utterly stupid.

Seems to me Gwendoline can’t quite match Brienne of the books, regardless of the make-up team’s brilliance, but then that doesn’t really matter – it’s taken a while (and a re-read) for it to sink in that the TV show and the books are different beasts, if from the same litter, and both brilliant in their own ways – in Nina Gold and D&D we trust, she’ll be a great Brienne

*sigh* The role went a petty woman just as I feared. Though at least she is tall. First Yara now this, not a good morning.

I could not be happier! For those of you saying she’s too pretty…get a life. Seriously. She’s got the wide-eyed innocence, the wide mouth and the height. She doesn’t need to be a total dog. The mere fact that she’s a woman who’s that tall, wears armor and fights like a man is enough.

A bad haircut can do wonders to ugly someone up.

And if there’s one thing this show’s good at, it’s finding the most terrible wigs known to Man.

Just slap on Arya’s “haircut” from the finale and Brienne will already look 50% less pretty than Gwendoline Christie does in real life.

Damryn of Dorne,

I agree but there will always be doom and gloomers out there that focus on everything bad they can find instead of the positive parts.

It will be fun to see how Christie finally comes to look in the series. Most importantly I hope she is athletic enough to do the battle scenes, as that’s hard to do without a bit of explosive strength. I’m looking forward to the results.

Stop talking about how pretty is Gwen, look at Charlize Theron ( a incredible beatiful woman..) in Monster if some ppl have doubt in the make-up….. some years ago the perfect choice Sigourney Weaver but now is Gwen, tall, build and nice actress

Damryn of Dorne,

It’s not the actor herself I have issues with, since I don’t know much about her to judge, its’ the name change. Yara. Urg!

Hollywood “uglifying” is a disgrace. I had hoped to avoid it in this show. Guess not. May not even continue with the TV series at this point.

@ Jenny – I am a woman, and I still think she’s too skinny and pretty.

@ Who Is – actually, no I don’t. Gwen looks like an “average” lady (if very tall) – which is she’s not Hollywood beauty but she’s also not Brienne ugly and they’re going to have to uglify her rather than give a truly “ugly” girl with acting chops the chance to break through in mainstream Hollywood “skinny and beautiful or no job” mentality.

Bairanax: Stop talking about how pretty is Gwen, look at Charlize Theron ( a incredible beatiful woman..) in Monster if some ppl have doubt in the make-up….. some years ago the perfect choice Sigourney Weaver but now is Gwen, tall, build and nice actress

It’s not that they can’t uglify a beautiful actor convincingly. Of course they can. It’s that there are so many female actors out there who aren’t beautiful, who get passed over because their face/body doesn’t conform to the Hollywood idea, but they are just as talented. Charlize Theron could play any woman she wanted because she’s gorgeous. So I wanted the opportunity to go to a woman who can’t play anyone.

It’d be like casting a non-dwarf for Tyrion and using camera tricks to make him into a dwarf. Goodness knows there are few enough compelling parts for a dwarf in film and television.

TheAmir: Hollywood “uglifying” is a disgrace. I had hoped to avoid it in this show. Guess not. May not even continue with the TV series at this point.@ Jenny – I am a woman, and I still think she’s too skinny and pretty.

Really?? I guess then you will also leave this site, as it is for the show, not the books. Oh well… See You Next Tuesday!

NOW SHOW ME STANNIS!!!!!!

*doing official happy dance*

Who will play the most interesting characters: Davos and Stannis?!!!!!!!!!

I trust Nina Gold so I look forward to seeing her on screen for Season 2. It’d be good to confirm whether it was thanks to WiCers that she applied for the role, ‘cos that’d be a real coup.

This is great news! She looks great for the part. WAAAAAAAY too much negativity in here…if GRRM says she is awesome and can act, why are some people so skeptical?

For those that are saying that the role should have gone to an “ugly girl” to give her a chance to break into the industry…have you ever thought that Ms. Christie’s unusual height may have reduced the number of roles available for her? Can you see her cast in a romantic comedy opposite Justin Timberlake (like petite Mila Kunis) or in any other big Hollywood film for that matter? This is HER “big break”. Be kind.

Pippin:
This is great news! She looks great for the part. WAAAAAAAY too much negativity in here…if GRRM says she is awesome and can act, why are some people so skeptical?

Because geeks are the harshest critics when it comes to the stuff they love, and will always second guess people who do this for a living. I, for one, think she is excellent.

TheAmir,

I hope to god you’re a troll (in which case I just fed you!), because if you’re serious, then…I just despair for humanity and GoT fandom, really.

A Bear_A Bear,

Why? Becaushe she doesn’t like the discrimination against ugly people that exist nowadays in tv and movies? You seem more like a troll to me, honestly.

This is all so hilarious.

I hope they ugly her up and have her bulk up a bit, because I don’t think she is ugly or muscular enough to pass for Brienne in the books right now. Hope the make-up team does their job and I hope she nails the role.

She looks like a great fit for Brienne.

Now let’s have our Stannis and Davos please.

Wow, I get online after my lunchtime meeting for the first time today, and we have a Brienne! Sad to have missed the madness of a clue, but very happy with the result, Gwendoline was my choice as soon as she was mentioned. I’m particularly glad Brienne is slightly taller than Jaime. That will work well.

No surprise at all the ‘she’s too pretty!’ posts (but it’s such a welcome change from ‘she’s too ugly/old’ for other roles) but I think this will work. Gwendoline isn’t as ugly as Brienne is made out to be in the book- very few people on the planet are that ugly! But she’s tall and not model-skinny (hopefully going to the gym to get plenty of muscle?) and she has those lovely blue eyes. Give her a bad haircut, anti-flattering makeup and some bruises and she’ll look appropriately awful compared to everyone around her, wearing tv-level makeup to look their absolute best.

I’d love to see a picture of how she looked at audition though! Wonder if it matches my imagination.

Oh and we have a potential Asha (or Yara) too- waiting for confirmation but if so, nice to see the roles filled (don’t like the name change, but that’s not confirmed either).

The Beauty!

(Just can’t get enough of saying that.)

Brienne is one of my top four favorite characters. I said it in the clue post, and I’ll say it again: I think she’s going to be fantastic. I trusted Nina, D&D, & co. before the first season, and they did not betray me. And then reading GRRM’s post made me even more pleased:

This was another one of those cases where there was hardly any debate. The day the first batch of auditions went up for the role, we looked at a dozen actresses who were reading for Brienne and one actress who WAS Brienne. Gwendoline gave a great reading, and her look was just perfect. No, when she auditioned, she did not look she does in the photo above. She came in looking… well, like Brienne.

Jenny, I am in total agreement.

Paul Gude, Mauberly . . . y’all are my heros.

This chick a beast. I threw up in my mouth a little when I first saw the picture. Almost to ugly for Brienne, but I guess it was the best they ended up with.

Josh Atreides,

Josh Atreides,

Hah, relax, I saw so much from the other end of the spectrum I thought I’d balance it out :D

Also loved all the “wow, she is ugly! Perfect!” as well. Hardly ever see that within a positive context.

Shadd,

Apologies friend. We geeks tend to be oversensitive some times. Heh.

Peace?

GRRM:
no one likes looking at ugly ppl. sorry.

-Hollywood

This is not true. What a lot of people are not taking into consideration is the actor’s role and what their character is all about. I really don’t get it. Have you ever heard of Melissa Leo? Best supporting actress for the Fighter. Have you ever heard of Charlize Theron? Academy Award for Monster. Hilary Swank in Boys Don’t Cry. Frances McDormand in Fargo. The list goes on. Whether the actress is considered attractive and undergoes makeup, or if she is not all that much of a conventional beauty, women in Hollywood like the challenge of playing against type I really can’t believe some of these comments.

Love the casting. I think Christie is average-person pretty, not model-gorgeous. Makeup, armor, and hair will take care of the rest. If GRRM says she showed up looking perfect for Brienne, I have faith in the man who created Brienne.

Physically she’s perfect.

CAN”T WAIT to see the first pictures emerging with her in full costume, it’s going to be awesome. I thought that after one season I wouldn’t get that excited with new castingannouncements and filming approaching (undercover pictures of Brienne are welcome too!), but I’m giddy with excitement again! She’s going to kill this role!

fake teeth? please, people! FRECKLES. Freckles on a girl are Classic Ugly (by the standards of the time, and by modern day “we like tan”).
Plus, look at her face — it’s broad, and with low cheekbones.

Hell, you could make someone REALLY freakish by putting splashes of black-skin-tone and white-skin-tone on their face. And that’s easy makeup. [Also, it's a real disease]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitiligo

I certainly wouldn’t count Brienne among my favorite characters from ASoIaF but I am pleased by this casting and think Gwendoline will be great in the role. I’m also hoping now that the next casting clue will be exactly or nearly the same but with the title “I am Red”. I never even thought of Sophie Marceau as Mel until yesterday and now she is the only actress I can see playing that role. She would help bring some more star power to the series now that Bean and Addy are gone. And that beautiful French accent would be perfect for delivering Mel’s lines. Sure she’s aged a bit since her most well known roles but she is still absolutely gorgeous!

Hollyoak,

Agreed. In real life, I usually stop seeing the ‘looks’ of people I meet after a few days, and then their beauty for me is determined by how much I like them. And no matter how they appeared to me at first glance, if it is someone that smiles a lot, I allways find them goodlooking.

Btw, to continue your list: Steve Buscemi??

Perfect choice. I hope that she’s in a Gold’s Gym right now somewhere doing squats and hitting the bench press hard.

Also, regarding the tub scene with Jaime, I wonder if she knows that she has to grow out her pubic hair big-time? :)

Wow. Some of these complaints are just ridiculous, and I was going to comment on those, before I saw what is absolutely, 100% the most offensive thing in the thread.

Wastrel has evidently decided, in addition to being batshit insane regarding set dressing and furniture, that CHARLIZE THERON IS UGLY. Wow. I am at a loss.

Tar Kidho,

Heh, she’s our very own Chuck Norris…

Tar Kidho,

She should get used to being called wench though.

I find her too pretty for my vision of Brienne o.o

She looks perfect, very tall, the right face in my opinion, pretty innocent eyes.

As always, the people who complain because they expect an actress to fit their mental image exactly are ridiculous…. especially since you haven’t even seen them onscreen in their role. We really have no idea how she will look as Brienne from a couple headshots and videos from other roles.

You only have to look at a movie like ‘Monster’ to see what the make up department and dedication from an actor/actress can do to an on screen characters portrayal.

Charlize Theron

Very very tough character to cast..

1) Needs to be ugly/plain/mannish
2) Needs to be huge/tall
3) Needs to actually be able to act (first and formost).

I think anyone who is remotely realistic knew this casting was going to a compromise. So do you find someone off the street who fits #1 and #2, but has no experience in acting? I think going with #2 and #3 was the smart choice.

What is truly upsetting to me is how much people are squawking over whether she’s too pretty or not. Can we maybe represent GoT fans well by, you know, NOT totally objectifying women by feeling a need to condemn or approve of this casting choice soley on the appearance of the actress?

Someone did point out early on that Peter Dinklage is probably technically “too handsome” for Tyrion, which is true. But it was never really an issue. There wasn’t a huge debate about it. I’m sure it was brought up by some, but it wasn’t the focus of the discussion. It never devolved the way this conversation has. There’s a reason for that. Dinklage has a handy “Y” chromosome. So it is a non-issue. Meanwhile, debate rages over this choice for Brienne.

I realize I don’t comment often on this board, but I do generally enjoy the discussions. I think this is a wonderful site, and by and large I’ve come to respect a majority of the people who do post here frequently. This thread though is, so far, intensely disappointing.

I don’t mean to be harsh, I just think that all of the men who are rushing to judge this casting decision need to take a step back and check their privilege. Why are you focusing purely on her looks? Just think about it before you type. Think about how you feel about Peter Dinklage as Tyrion. About how you reacted to that decision.

The other thing I’d like to point out, is that casting is complicated, more so than you realize. None of you are casting agents (correct me if I’m wrong) and I imagine few of you are film professionals. Good casting requires a lot of imagination. It isn’t about finding someone who fits a physical description to a tee and can say the lines well. It is about finding someone who has specific, intrinsic qualities that bring a particular role to life. There’s an art to it. Dismissing the work that the casting agent has done with “she’s too pretty” comments is pretty much laying out your complete lack of understanding for what goes into the process for all to see.

I’m all for discussion as to whether or not this is a good casting choice, but we need to avoid looking purely through the prism of beauty and physical appearance. Otherwise we’re all just acting like a bunch of stereotypical jocks.

That’s my two cents. Apologies if anyone is offended.

Just saying nobody knows what she would look like more than Martin. He said she is good to go than she is good to go. I love this site come all the time and post some times but all of you need to take a deep breath. No matter who they cast you aren’t making any money. Just watch it and enjoy it or don’t watch it and keep quiet about it.

Onos Toolan,

I had a huge crush on Sophie Marceau after Braveheart. Even the Bond fan in me was able to suffer through The World is Not Enough because of her inclusion as a Bond villain. Her as Mel would be absolutely amazing. I can visualize it perfectly.

My second choice is Connie Nielsen. Watch her in The Devil’s Advocate: pure malevolence. Then combine that with the authority and grace she commanded in Gladiator. Now to top it off she’s stunning even in her mid-forties and NCW will have a fellow Dane on the set to boot!

Sophie or Connie for Mel.

Tar Kidho,
You sound like a wonderful guy :)

I think she’s really pretty.

But she’s also as tall as I am, and probably nailed her audition.

She wasn’t my choice, but it’s safe to assume she’ll give us a memorable Brienne. Congratulations! :)

I think the tagline for this site should be:
Winter is Coming – Bringing ad nauseum to a new level.

The one concern I agree with is that, while really tall, she doesn’t make me think “freakishly strong” by any means. I’ll wait to see her in character before deciding whether she can pull off looking like she could kick most dudes asses or not.

And for people saying that she will just “bulk up” before shooting starts… That’s probably not going to happen. It’s much harder for females to gain mass, especially someone so tall with a lanky frame and only matter of months. But if she could strengthen and tone up a little, that would definitely help.

Hollyoak,

Thank you Hollyoak! I love me a good moniker :).

My girlfriend worked in casting for a long time, and I’m an actor / film producer. So I get (perhaps far too quickly) rankled when that type of work is disrespected (either accidentally or on purpose.)

Also, fantasy – as a genre – gets far too much scorn from the general public (see also that NYTimes review of GoT – was it by Ginia Bellafante? – when the series was starting out.) I don’t want our community to give anyone like that reviewer any ammunition whatsoever. It is already too easy for people to say sci-fi / fantasy is male-centric and can only appeal to rabid fanboys and hey, here’s an example – and then link to a thread where we’re at our worst.

With this series being as popular as it is, there is a real opportunity for fantasy – and the fantasy community – to gain more broad acceptance. Lets seize that.

Winter Is Coming,

yeah, that link you have up there to the comments in the Michelle Fairley article really brought those memories back. Holy crap there were some ruthless comments.

I also think that film adaptations don’t have to match up exactly with the physical description in the book . For instance (not complaining, just making an observation) people are talking a lot about her bulking up and putting on muscle. I don’t think that is going to happen, just my opinion. Isn’t her being freakishly tall and wearing plate armor enough?

Just my thoughts.

The Harpo Marxist,

Come now, many of the male characters have had these obsessive ‘do they perfectly match their appearance in the books?’ debates – and usually about half the debate is people saying ‘it doesn’t matter’.

I think it’s fair to play the sexism card when there are some obnoxious posters criticising women (Merchant most notably, but to a lesser extent most of them) for not being impossibly gorgeous and the most attractive people ever and how could anybody watch a show with people so disgustingly ugly in them and so on. But that’s a different issue, I think, from people getting a bit pedantic about whether the actor matches the description of the character.

And let’s face it, what else can we say? About most actors, we’ve nothing much to say about their talents – ‘they seemed good in X’, ‘they seemed bad in Y’, ‘I’ve never seen them in anything’. We basically don’t know how well they can play the role until we’ve seen them do it [barring outliers in either direction - there may some 'actors' I wouldn't ever believe capable of good acting, and there are certainly some actors who have demonstrated themselves to be geniuses... but there aren't very many of either], so all we can really comment on is their appearance.

Brienne is my favorite character introduced after GoT. Sort of a female Dunk.

I think the Marxist is making much ado about nothing…this thread is pretty polite and yes looks are an important aspect of Brienne character…so no surprise people are focusing on it …especially considering we don’t know much about her as an actor…the most vicious comments I’ve scene on this site concerned Ms.Merchant…I do not miss those days lol…

Professional theatrical make-up artist here…anti-beauty make up is the same process as beauty make up – you just go the other way. The first thing a make up artist does is identify flaws and strengths in a face – in this case you exaggerate what you would usually conceal with contour and colour. I think it’s unlikely they’ll give her crazy prosthetic teeth – they can make it very difficult to speak naturally, and I don’t think they’ll want to make her voice a distraction. Maybe a scar or two on her face (remember Ned’s chest?), maybe add a hump to her nose (small prosthetic or contouring), have her grow out her eyebrows (to the person worried about fake eyebrows – don’t worry – they would never interfere with her facial expressions by covering her brows – at most they’ll add some single hairs).

Look at her high, domed forehead – imagine it shining and freckled with hair either lank and scraped back or terrible short bangs. She’ll have an awkward, hunched over, almost apologetic stance until it’s time to fight and then she’ll be shockingly impressive. Maybe some shots of her big hands with broken nails and dirty knuckles. In the midst of all that those limpid eyes will be devastating.

I’m excited. Looking forward to seeing her onscreen.

As I said before, I think she’s a great pick. I DO hope she has the innate physicality that will be necessary to pull of Brienne.

If not, let’s hope she gets to the gym with some MMA-type trainers and works at the whole physical/violent/hand-to-hand/combat mindset.

That will go a long way towards nailing the character.

Brienne is more defined by her looks than any other character in the entire series so naturally there’s a lot of discussion about it. Gregor just has to be huge, Brienne has to be huge and ugly.

I think Gwen can pull it off, but I think people who think she’s too pretty have a valid point.

And let’s not play the sexism card here. There have been plenty of discussion about the physical appearance of males in the series, as well. Jaime, Tyrion, King Robert, and Loras…who can forget the firestorm over Loras.

I am so excited! Brienne is one of my favorite characters and she is going to be perfect!

Bravo.

She’s the right height, has the right coloring, has the innocent blue eyes and has enough of that awkward “too-tall-girl” gawkyness in her face that she will pull it off well.

Now, get her into the weight room.

I’m glad she’s not “ugly”, it would be so hard to say “yes, this girl is soooo ugly, she’s perfect”. How mean would that be to say about somebody. When reading I’ve always felt that Brienne is not as ugly as the other characters make her out to be, just not traditionally pretty in the standards of Westerosi society. She does have beautiful eyes though, which is more important than being ugly.
Can’t wait to see the energy between her and Jaime

The Harpo Marxist: Again, not trying to offend anyone or make anyone feel bad. (Though phrases like “race card” or “sexism card” do bother me, especially considering who stacked the deck.)

You’re calling posters sexist for saying Gwen is too pretty when even GRRM mentioned on his blog that she’s prettier than book Brienne.

Yes, she is prettier than the character should be.

Yes, they can ugly her up.

Discussing her looks with respect to this role is not sexist as her physical appearance was by far the most important criteria as described in the casting call.

Lina: Brienne moments I’m looking forward to

I love the way GRRM uses these repetitions to establish a type of cadence in his work. “Winter is coming”‘ “A Lannister always pays his debts”; “you know nothing, Jon Snow”; “I am only a young girl and do not understand the ways of war”; “She’s been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and probably Moon Boy for all I know.“ and this …

“I’m looking for a maid of three-and-ten … A highborn maid and very beautiful … with blue eyes and auburn hair … She may have been traveling with a fool.”

Of course, that would mean we’re in season 4.

Could you imagine if Gwendoline Christie came by here and looked at all these comments? She’d probably run away screaming, “God, those Thrones people are insane!”

I don’t think having an attractive or at least “not un-attractive” actor playing Brienne is a bad thing. As long she can be easily confused for a man as much as Loras can apparently be confused for a woman I’m fine with that.

I think having an attractive Brienne will make any future interactions she has with a certain unnamed anti-hero all the more intersting to watch on screen.

here’s a pic that shows just how tall she is…

ScottsdaleSam,

I’m really not calling anyone posting here “sexist.” I’m not saying to any one person “Hey – you are being sexist!” This is why I was apologetic, and trying to tread as lightly as possible. I know that people are quick to feel judged and are sensitive about this issue and I didn’t want a discussion to deteroriate into “hey, you called me sexist so I’ll call you judgmental!” place.

What I initially was responding to, was valid and worth bringing up. The focus on her appearance and the nature of that focus was reductive. Like Hollyoaks said, Christie would run screaming if she were on this thread and saw people dissecting her looks without considering ANYTHING else. It is the last part of this previous sentence “…without considering ANYTHING else.” that is important. Yeah, I get that Dinklage had more clips online, but this actress does have some content available. And there is still plenty of discussion you can have about a casting decision of an unknown without devolving it into something that is purely objectifying.

Do you think I was wrong to bring it up? That my original comment was totally out of line? Okay, that’s fair. But I think that even if you disagree with me, it is a valueable conversation to have.

As I’ve repeated before, I’m really not trying to pick a fight with any one person, I’m merely stating that the men on the boards who are making comments about Christie’s appearance as “too pretty” and saying NOTHING else are feeding into the worst stereotypes about fanboys.

I’m not calling anyone out specifically out, I was simply reacting to thread itself, which was IMHO being totally reductive of not just Christie, but of Nina Gold and the work she does as well. My purpose for bringing it up was not to judge anyone . It was to talk about something that is real – I also feel like I wasn’t the only one thinking about this issue, so it IS real.

Mike Chair: I love the way GRRM uses these repetitions to establish a type of cadence in his work.“Winter is coming”‘“A Lannister always pays his debts”; “you know nothing, Jon Snow”; “I am only a young girl and do not understand the ways of war”; “She’s been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and probably Moon Boy for all I know.“ and this …

“I’m looking for a maid of three-and-ten … A highborn maid and very beautiful … with blue eyes and auburn hair … She may have been traveling with a fool.”

Of course, that would mean we’re in season 4.

I hadn’t thought about that moment, but good point! Delivered with a mixture of meek presence and underlying strong determination…I can see it now!

I mentioned Jaime already, but I’m also really excited to see what type of chemistry develops between Gwen (can we call her this?) and Michelle Fairley. I’m a huge TV Cat supporter, and I adore Michelle Fairley’s work. So I’m excited to see that relationship develop. In a way, I think Jeyne Westerling and Brienne fill a void for Cat in a teeny tiny way – the void left by Sansa and Arya being hostaged/missing. Obviously these two can’t compare to her own daughters, but it will be nice to see Fairley get to play a motherly character to girls, as we didn’t see her share much time at all with either of her daughters.

Tonight and tomorrow night the HOLE first season on Fantastic Zagreb Film Festival. 5 eps a night starting at 22.30. And a tick-et is in my pock-et!

Check out the party on:
SfCentar and on Serijala

3 more hours…

JC,

Totally concur – that clip is pretty awesome. It tells me right away that Christie has the intensity and the chops to pull off one of the more challenging roles in the series!

Somehow I doubt Gwen would be too distraught if she came in here to see a ton of “she’s too pretty” comments.

She knows she’s prettier than Brienne ought to be, that’s why she showed up at the audition with her looks toned down.

If the discussion of the appearance of Brienne’s actress is sexist, then what do we label the casting call they put out for the role?

Do NOT submit actresses that look like models. We are looking for a big, WARRIOR-TYPE woman that’s more MANLY than womanly.

We should all note that the picture above is a “head shot” that agencies shop around. Her look is not reflective of how the character will look. She has the size so physical features will be made up for with the acting. I agree with this choice. Look at some of the head shots on the casting page. I lot of them were much different from the actual characters on screen.

The Harpo Marxist: Actually, I feel my comments are meant to promote an actual discussion – and I think it has. Is ‘She’s too pretty’ vs ‘No, they can make her uglier!’ really much a discussion?

In that they engendered Devongirl’s very interesting comments about makeup, yes.

Either you guys have extremely strange standards of what is considered “hot” or “pretty”, or you don’t understand anything about photos, makeup, or lighting.

Look at any of her videos or candid photos and then please move on!

Sansa’s Lemoncakes:
http://www.themakeupgallery.info/character/plain/index.htm

She’ll be fine.

What an interesting website. Thanks for posting the link, I had a lot of fun with that!
Congratulations to Gwendoline Christie, every second of her screen time will be worth a sapphire!

Personally I have not yet been dissapointed by the casting choices for the show. I think that she will be a great addition to the show and the cast. Instead of picking on her before she has even had the chance to prove herself, as well as bitching and moaning incessantly about minor stuff, I would rather want to welcome Gwendoline Christie to the “Game Of Thrones” family. I am looking forward to seeing her on the show!

Here is my list of complaints about this actress that need to be addressed IMMEDIATELY or I shall have a hissy FIT all over the internet.

I made 7 of them because there are 7 southern gods in the Westeros universe.

1. Not tall enough (Come on HBO! Give me a few more inches, I’m dyin’ over here.)
2. Not manly enough (come on, HBO, this woman looks like a …WOMAN… What happened to butt-ugly-dreams and she’s-a-man-baby wishes?)
3. Too blonde (Since when is Brienne BLONDE? Argggggg)
4. Too ‘hollywood’ (Not very nearly ugly enough!!!! Not even close! Actually I’m attracted to her FFS!)
5. Too British (Gawds!!!)
6. Too skinny (except her arms which are) Too fat
7. Her lips are too something I can’t put my finger on.. I don’t like them at all!

Things I love about her:
1. Her eyes are soooo beautiful!!
2. I imagine her toes are freakishly long! Ew. Perfect!
3. Scary! I’m seriously afraid she’s going to visit every single hater on this board and beat the living shit out of them! I kind of want her to! I really want her to!
4. She’s the physically most similar anyone will ever possibly find to Brienne, who also happens to be a great actor!
5. Some girls are bigger than others!
6. She is soooo talented! Spidermonkey time! I can’t wait to see still with her standing next to Dinklage!!! ZOMG
7. Her forehead looks exactly how I imagined Brienne!

ScottsdaleSam,

Maybe I’m not being clear, for that I apologize.

There is a difference between a casting call description and a thread on a forum where fanboys are judging an actress PURELY on her looks. My point wasn’t about sexism in hollywood via irresponsible casting descriptions (Honestly, nothing in that casting call stuck out to me as problematic.) My point was that we weren’t have a discussion. There were just a bunch of guys arguing about her appearance with taking into consideration ANYTHING else. There were comments that simply said “she’s too pretty.”

Given that we live in a world that is populated by tons of priviliged white males, I think it is important for us to check ourselves from time to time. Some of the earlier comments were a bit ridiculous – and frankly were just the sort of thing that feeds the fire of people like that NYTimes reviewer. People might be wandering onto this site, now that the show is big. They’re going to be thinking “maybe fantasy is okay” until they look at a discussion between a bunch of men reducing a recently cast actress to nothing more than her appearance.

There are enough people who look at fantasy as genre and say “this is all adoscelent garbage. It isn’t worth my time, it isn’t art. It is just misogynistic fantasies being indulged by adoscelent boys.” Lets not feed that fire. Let’s be better than that and raise our discourse above “She’s too pretty” or “she’s too ugly.”

Sansa’s Lemoncakes,

That stable boy will never work in this town again!

Apologies for my defensiveness :).

cry little sister,

Is that a Lost Boys soundtrack reference? I only saw that movie a thousand times so I thought… maybe.

The Harpo Marxist: There are enough people who look at fantasy as genre and say “this is all adoscelent garbage. It isn’t worth my time, it isn’t art. It is just misogynistic fantasies being indulged by adoscelent boys.” Lets not feed that fire. Let’s be better than that and raise our discourse above “She’s too pretty” or “she’s too ugly.”

Your outrage appears selective as you ignore all the superficial comments on the male actors to play the sexism card. This discussion is positively tame compared to past discussions on the appearance of Loras.

This is a casting thread. There will be a lot of discussion about physical appearance. That’s what happens in every casting thread on every forum for every genre.

The Harpo Marxist: we live in a world that is populated by tons of priviliged white males

lol… by the pound! privileged white males lock stock and barrel… sorry I ate sugar so I can’t focus on the rest of your post. I know it’s terrible, I really shouldn’t. 90% of the content of this thread is also terrible though, I think honestly. No wonder actors are so effed up in the head.

Agree with Harpo here -

I’m done with this thread. I think she’s a great pick! Not to mention what a privilege for her to play Brienne. I mean how many great characters are out there for 6′ 3″ women? Awesome!

Girt the Great,

Me too I’m done!

Oh but look, I’m more great than you. Take that, ‘Girt’.

Girt the Great:
Brad,

I’m pretty sure GRRM has some input into what the onscreen characters look like.It’s nice to have ugly characters in books but really, who wants to stare at ugly people every Sunday night.I really don’t think Tyrion suffered because the actor isn’t ugly…

I’ll say it again because I just don’t understand. Do people watch and continue to watch shows because the characters are pretty? Or do they watch to see their hopes, fears and struggles? Well, I guess Tony Soprano must be really hot and good-looking because people tuned in in droves to watch that show.

*Wanders away shaking head*

Brad: She is too pretty; she’s beautiful.HBO has the mis-shapen dwarf, with bulging forehead, twisted legs, and lank hair portrayed by the devilishly handsome, and silvertongued, Peter Dinklage. They did not “uglify” him to match the role, and more’s the pity.Therefore, I see no reason to expect HBO to “uglify” this actress for her role. I’m sure she will be plain (lacking beautifying eyeliner, rouge, etc), but I do not at all expect HBO to “uglify” her. It’s a shame. Why? For the same reason GRRM wrote her appearance with such specificity. It’s part of the character he created.

And yet GRRM says both are perfect for the roles. Do you think he’s lying, or do you think he’s just lost touch with who his own characters are? Or, more reasonably, does he know better than to reduce the essence of a character to his chosen physical description?

ScottsdaleSam,

Well, honestly, the gender of the actor involved DOES matter. That’s why I commented. Women are objectified by society, men are not. Thus, a group of men sitting around and reducing an actress to nothing more than her physical attributes is loaded in a way that a discussion about whether Loras isn’t muscular enough isn’t.

Yes, there is a difference between someone saying that Kit Harrington is dreamy and a guy who comments that he doesn’t think Michelle Fairley is “hot” enough. Just like there is a difference between a black person using the “N” word and a white person doing the same.

Again, this isn’t about “playing a sexism card.” That deck exists because of white men. You can pretend there is no baggage here in society and that equality has been achieved and the older patronic models have totally gone away, or you can accept that there is still an issue, and that this issue and that is worth discussing and reflecting upon so that one day, in a (probably sadly distant) future time, the baggage won’t be gone. That choice is yours.

“WILL be gone.” Sorry – should have edited my comment :). Typed too fast.

The Harpo Marxist: Again, this isn’t about “playing a sexism card.”

Actually, you’re the biggest sexist here.

sjwenings: Maybe he is.There is no reason to trust what he says about the actors of the show based on his books thats gonna make him a lot of money.Headline: “Writer GRRM doesn’t really like Game of thrones, thats based on his own books.”Bad publicity, probably less money in the bank, and HBO would be very, very unhappy with him.If GRRM wasn’t happy about her, he would not tell us.

Uh, no, if he wasn’t happy about her he’d make his opinion known and they probably wouldn’t hire her for the part. Do you think he’s watching auditions for shits and giggles? No, he actually has some say in the matter.

I’m a big fan of knee-jerk cynicism myself, but to think George is constantly gritting his teeth as he spits out these faux-enthusiastic affirmations of the casting and other aspects of the show is too paranoid for even me. He’s somebody who’s well aware of the difficulties involved in producing a show of this type, and so seems to take the details a lot more lightly than some of his excessively rabid fans.

sjwenings: Maybe he is.

There is no reason to trust what he says about the actors of the show based on his books thats gonna make him a lot of money.

Headline: “Writer GRRM doesn’t really like Game of thrones, thats based on his own books.”

Bad publicity, probably less money in the bank, and HBO would be very, very unhappy with him.

If GRRM wasn’t happy about her, he would not tell us.

He would not tell us he is either. He’s said so repeatedly on his blog. Stop spreading bs guys

Steven Swanson: Uh, no, if he wasn’t happy about her he’d make his opinion known and they probably wouldn’t hire her for the part. Do you think he’s watching auditions for shits and giggles? No, he actually has some say in the matter.

Pff… If the producers wanted to take Brienne in a different direction and loved her, they would hire her. It’s not like GRRM has a final say or anything. He is “beneath” them as far as making these kinds of decisions go.

I’m wondering if, in the interests of fleshing out the Renly portion of the story, we will get to see any of her “suitors” that she are mentioned in AFFC. I think after she wins the melee, they could show her preparing for the feast afterward and one of them could show up then. I’d love to actually see her deal with one or two of these guys as opposed to maybe hearing about it later.

She will appear “freakishly” tall because most of the other onscreen actors are under six feet (I assume).

This is going to be good. :)

sjwenings,

But why would he go all out and lie about his thoughts on the casting when he could just refrain from making any comment? He hasn’t commented about every major casting that I recall, so why assume that when he does, it means he’s lying. That’s just silly. I’d be more inclined to believe you iff he made incredibly upbeat comments about every cast member, but he doesn’t.

sjwenings: Djeez… To trust every single thing he says about the show blindly, is stupid. Thats all i’m saying.

I don’t trust anything blindly. Like others have pointed out, he just as easily could have said nothing, and it’s more reasonable to assume his enthusiasm was genuine. You just seem to be feeding your addiction to being a contrarian, so I’ll leave you alone to do your thing now.

The Harpo Marxist: Well, honestly, the gender of the actor involved DOES matter. That’s why I commented. Women are objectified by society, men are not. Thus, a group of men sitting around and reducing an actress to nothing more than her physical attributes is loaded in a way that a discussion about whether Loras isn’t muscular enough isn’t.

How is “she’s prettier than the character should be” reducing her to nothing more than her physical attributes?

GRRM acknowledges this fact.

And Gwen acknowledged it too when she showed up to the audition dressed down to fit the image of Brienne better.

There’s no reason we should ignore discussions of what a character is supposed to look like because you’re feeling insulted and objectified on someone else’s behalf.

If you’re looking for a thread to prove your point about evil men objectifying women there are and will be much better threads to do that in. I’m sure the Mel thread will be fun. This thread is tame. Gwen is prettier than book Brienne. GRRM acknowledges it. Gwen acknowledges it. I don’t think it’s a big deal, but I also don’t think discussing her similarity to book Brienne is sexist in any way.

ScottsdaleSam,

Okay, I’m not being clear, obviously.

My point wasn’t that people SHOULDN’T talk about her appearance. My point was that the ONLY thing people were talking about WAS her appearance. And that they were doing it in a way that was disrespectful to the work casting agents do.

You’re trying to make it out as if I’m feeling objectified myself or throwing some sort of tantrum. I wasn’t, and I’m not. Look at my original comment and where it fell in the thread, I think that should clear things up.

Mirax: But why would he go all out and lie about his thoughts on the casting when he could just refrain from making any comment? He hasn’t commented about every major casting that I recall, so why assume that when he does, it means he’s lying. That’s just silly. I’d be more inclined to believe you iff he made incredibly upbeat comments about every cast member, but he doesn’t.

I certainly did not assume he was lying. Get a grip, lol!

Anyway: I did not specifically talk just about her, but his comments about Dinklage and other actors and the show in general. I’m tired of all the “but GRRM likes the actor, so…” comments.

That said, I’ll admit i was a little bit faster in typing than thinking when i made that comment. I suppose it’s unlikely (yet not impossible) that he would go that far in praising some somewhat (so far) minor actress he did not like. I stand by the stuff about what he might say about the major characters and the show in general, though.

And again: (kinda tired of doing this) He probably all in all loves the show, and at least most (if not all) of the actors.

sigh……this blog has become exhuasting….what happened to the fun.

sjwenings,

You’re putting words and sentiments in my mouth. Look at the original comment.

My point was that it is different for men to talk about women purely based on their looks than the other way around, because the circumstances of society are different.

And I compared it to a white person using the ‘N’ word vs. a black person doing the same. I did so because I wanted to demonstrate that context matters. It is different depending on the direction of the objectification. Does that excuse the other direction? Maybe, maybe not.

I apologize for the confusion about bringing race into it – I was simply pointing out that white men have a tremendous amount of privilege and it is important to check it sometimes, to make sure you aren’t looking at something in front of you with blinders. That’s all I meant. Now you react as if I’ve personally said “sj jwenings is a sexist.” I didn’t.

Everyone can be hated or discriminated against because of race / gender / etc. But right now we still live in a society that is unfair. It is stacked in a particular way. The people it isn’t unfair towards – ie the people that it favors – should strive to make sure they are being equitable. That’s it dude. Do you have an issue with that sentiment?

Mirax: What Brienne scene are you looking forward to seeing on screen?

The pit in Harrenhal of course!

I’m gonna interrupt the arguments for a second:

Here is my new Season 2 cast gallery (only for additions to the cast)

And here is my mostly complete Season 1 cast gallery.

I think we need a new thread, and I honestly don’t care what it is. Something. Anything.

Epic The Quixotic,

Hmm, do you think they’ll go CGI or animatronic or REAL BEAR?! lol

Hollyoak: I also think that film adaptations don’t have to match up exactly with the physical description in the book . For instance (not complaining, just making an observation) people are talking a lot about her bulking up and putting on muscle. I don’t think that is going to happen, just my opinion. Isn’t her being freakishly tall and wearing plate armor enough?Just my thoughts.

She’ll have to bulk up just logistically, to be able to handle the action. Even the guys had to do that, if they were going to be doing swordfighting, wearing the heavy costumes, etc. (e.g. Kit Harington working with a trainer before shooting started – and I don’t think it was just for the haircut scene). So it’s not so much about how she looks, really (she’ll be in lots of costume for most of the shoot anyway) and more about really being able to do the things her character can do. That will naturally put muscle on her.

And while she was announced just now, I’m sure she’s known that she at least had a shot at the part for a while, plus it’s a five month shoot, so this idea that she only has a couple of weeks to get ready is nuts – it’s unlikely she’d be scheduled for the beginning of the shoot, especially if she needs to be fight-trained first.

Personally I don’t care how big she is. But I think she’ll look strong no matter what.

I most am looking forward to her interaction with Jaime. Their journey together and the way he finally begins to soften. I am kind of afraid of actually seeing the abuse they suffer from The Bloody Mummers and Vargo Hoat. I had to set the book down several times because I was so disgusted with it. When I read what became of Vargo Hoat it almost made me sick to my stomache, I almost pitied him. Keyword-almost.

HandmaidenofDany,

I decided not to re-read AFFC, but read the chapter summaries over at TowerofTheHand.com. I had forgotten that Jaime meets one of the guys she was betrothed to and gets super pissed and makes him say her name. It shows such a marked difference in his character from when he first meets her to when he sends her off to find Sansa.

The Harpo Marxist: You’re putting words and sentiments in my mouth. Look at the original comment.
My point was that it is different for men to talk about women purely based on their looks than the other way around, because the circumstances of society are different.
And I compared it to a white person using the ‘N’ word vs. a black person doing the same. I did so because I wanted to demonstrate that context matters. It is different depending on the direction of the objectification. Does that excuse the other direction? Maybe, maybe not.
I apologize for the confusion about bringing race into it – I was simply pointing out that white men have a tremendous amount of privilege and it is important to check it sometimes, to make sure you aren’t looking at something in front of you with blinders. That’s all I meant. Now you react as if I’ve personally said “sj jwenings is a sexist.” I didn’t.
Everyone can be hated or discriminated against because of race / gender / etc. But right now we still live in a society that is unfair. It is stacked in a particular way. The people it isn’t unfair towards – ie the people that it favors – should strive to make sure they are being equitable. That’s it dude. Do you have an issue with that sentiment?

Can’t fancy quote, but this: “My point was that it is different for men to talk about women purely based on their looks than the other way around, because the circumstances of society are different.”

If you mean that it’s more okay to objectify men than women, then thats sexist. I assume you do, since you did not deny it.

And i think the N word is a pretty bad comparison, since women where never whipped slaves. Either way. I do think white people should be allowed to say it. I suppose we both want gender and racial equality, but my solution to it is different.

I do not agree with your last sentiment, because it’s discriminative. Or at least it sounds like it, since you’re singeling white males out. Everyone should try to be equitable. Theres no reason to discriminate.

Also i do not think white males have a “tremendous amount of privilege”. As a white male, i gotta say i have never felt like that compared to non-white or non-males in my country. I truly don’t see how we are. (Sometimes it can even be the other way around.) Rich, succesful, powerful people in general are priviliged, no matter their race and gender. I don’t care about the color of their skin or their gender.

Ink: Plenty of writers have expressed their displeasure with the casting of products based on their writing. For example, Anne Rice ranting against Tom Cruise or Ursula K. LeGuin saying that SciFi Channel poorly cast an adaptation of Earthsea and the like. It’s not like GRRM won’t get paid whether he rants about an actor or not. If he sounds happy, he probably is. And if he’s watching the auditions (which he is) he probably has more creative input than most writers who are not consulted on squat.

Did they express their displeasure while the product was yet to be released or still made money? Are these people and GRRM the same?

Yeah, he probably does have more to say than most writers whose product is being adapted. Does that mean that he has a final say? (Edit: Would they not cast Dinklage if GRRM said no?) No. So …. whatever.

Hollyoak,

If you like these two you might like this one as well. ;-)
And here are same other ones…^^

I, for one, am SO freaking thankful that I don’t have some preconcieved picture in my head of what each character looks like or else I might be like everyone else spouting non-sensical shit about what a made up character should or shouldn ‘t look like. Geesh.

sjwenings,

Well, here’s where we’re going to actually diverge. Look at how much money the average white person makes compared to the average black person. Look at the same for women vs. men. Sorry, but ignoring that or prison statistics or poverty statistics is frankly socially irresponsible.

I also never said that it was okay for women to objectify men. You said that. I said it is more loaded for men to objectify women, because it is.

And there is a reason that black people can say the N-word and white people generally can’t. Think about it for a bit.

I’m sorry that you feel, as a white male, you don’t have privilage. But you do. Maybe you don’t realize it, but you have an advantage. You’re less likely to be stopped by a police officer for no reason. You are more likely to land a job, and once you have a job you are more likely to advance. I’m not saying that this is your fault, or that white people are evil. I’m really not. This isn’t about hating white men, it is about acknowledging a social reality. I’m not trying to be “discriminatory” against men or white people. Hell, I’m a white guy. I’m just trying to acknowledge the way the world works.

We can talk about women objectifying men when salaries are equal and rape & sexual harassment are no longer issues.

The Harpo Marxist,

The Harpo Marxist: my first in-depth internet posting experience wasn’t a total disaster :).

Of course not.
That need you said ” I have to feel like I have to correct everyone’s misconceptions about…” I think it is because of your shyness. I get it really.
Try to imagine what it feels when you´re not writing what you think in your own language. It´s so frustrating but it´s good exercise talk to people in any language or when you´re misunderstood and even when it becomes a mess. I think someone told you before what I told you and invites you to a question about what you like about Brienne. So, there you have it, it wasn´t a disaster.

Congratulations! Gwendoline, welcome to the GoT family, you are in for a treat. I look forward to watching you become The Maid of Tarth and own that role, as I am sure everyone else is (ignore the trolls).
This HBO series is special, and hopefully you have watched some of the episodes, so you know what totally awesome and professional talent you will working with. I’m also sure most of the girls will be jealous of you, considering who you will be spending most of your time with. When you get the chance you should have a few picks of you and you know who (out of character of course) taken and posted here, just to make them even more envious.

Zack: I find the notion troubling that because one perceives an inequality in societal gender relations, the solution is to put one’s finger on the scale the other way. What you were saying was saying, men can talk about other men’s looks, but not women’s, while women can criticize both to their heart’s content. I do have a problem with that. You can’t hold the sexes to different standards and expect no one to get upset. No, the answer is just no. Are you female? When looks are as important to a character’s personality as in Brienne’s case, and an actress is cast that doesn’t initially appear to fit that mold, there is going to be some initial skepticism. There was PLENTY of discussion regarding Dinklage being awfully handsome for Tyrion as described in the books, from male and female readers both. I’ll concede that Dinklage had a lot of backers talking about his acting chops from The Station Agent as well, but let’s be real. Absent any real popular film/TV series to go by, Christie can only be judged on what is available. So what do you want? You say too many people focused only on her looks. What else is there to focus on at this early stage? It’s either post about if she fits the book description, or post a ‘congrats, I’m sure she will be great!’ or nothing.

Actually, I do think if you want to balance a scale you have to put more weight on the other side. I mean, that makes scientific sense, right? You have to take steps to even it out. I think there was some debate about Tyrion, but it wasn’t focused on his looks and his looks didn’t define the debate the way Christie’s were for awhile. (I actually think the discussion there did change for the better and gain more breadth.)

There’s this notion that by pointing out that the thread had devolved into a discussion of “she’s too pretty” that I was trying to censor everyone, which was just not the case. Actually, my other major point – and the thing that irked me most initially – was the way people who don’t do or know anything about casting can be as dismissive of a casting choice purely on the basis of “she’s too pretty” when they haven’t even seen the actress in question perform – let alone perform as the character. Casting is an art, and there is a lot that goes into it.

A long time ago (probably somewhere in the middle of the thread now) I provided a list of things that could be talked about other than / in addition to how Christie fits everyone’s mental image of the part. In fact, some of the items on the list were then subsequently talked about.

Sansa’s Lemoncakes: The Harpo Marxist, I for one appreciate your presence and welcome your thoughts on the subject. You argue well and you come from a place of self- and social awareness, shy or not.

Thank you Sansa! And Lou!

I’m sad that I’ve got to shortly leave my computer. I’ll try to chime in more down the road. I do enjoy this site a lot, generally, and I should get over my internet-posting shyness.

And Lou – great point about Sean Bean. I don’t think that came up AT ALL in the casting discussions.

The Harpo Marxist: Look at how much money the average white person makes compared to the average black person. Look at the same for women vs. men. Sorry, but ignoring that or prison statistics or poverty statistics is frankly socially irresponsible.

Have you considered the possibility that men simply have higher ambitions than women, and work harder to get to the top? Or that there simply are more criminal and self-destructive black people? (Wait, wait… read the rest)

Why does the answer HAVE to be that white men are sexist and racist? It’s like you can’t even come up with an alternative explanation.

When it comes to Men vs women, i think it’s a genetic thing. When it comes to races – probably not. That would be more about history, and the culture that resulted from it.

sjwenings,

OH FFS

So your grand response to the theory that men and white people might happen to still have inbuilt societal privilege is to argue that maybe men and white people are simply better than anybody else? Seriously? Your assertion is that men are naturally smarter/harder-working/more ambitious than women? And then you claim you’re not sexist and that others are the sexist ones for even bringing up the subject of inequality.

Dude, stop. Seriously. Just stop. You are 100 percent what The Harpo Marxist is talking about when he talks about privilege.

Sansa’s Lemoncakes: OH FFS
So your grand response to the theory that men and white people might happen to still have inbuilt societal privilege is to argue that maybe men and white people are simply better than anybody else? Seriously? Your assertion is that men are naturally smarter/harder-working/more ambitious than women? And then you claim you’re not sexist and that others are the sexist ones for even bringing up the subject of inequality.
Dude, stop. Seriously. Just stop. You are 100 percent what The Harpo Marxist is talking about when he talks about privilege.

Do not tell me to stop. Don’t.

I never said smarter – did you not feel like you had enough to critisize, so you just slipped that one in there? I’m also not talking about race, per ce. I made that clear. I’m talking about culture.

Being sexist is treating people differently – i do not suggest we start doing that. Men ARE more ambitious, though. They’re also more aggresive, for that matter – is that a sexist statement?

Should i pretend that men and women are different, yet never in positive ways for men? Women are more empathetic. Is that wrong to say too?

Mirax: Care to site some studies that have shown that? I know people of both sexes that are equally ambitious/unconcerned/lazy.

Don’t remember. Not for the aggresiveness or empathy-stuff either, for that matter.

“So what” on your final comment. I never said ambitious women did not exist.

sjwenings,

Prove. it. Don’t just come with some essentialist bullshit about how men are ambitious and women are empathetic and that’s why inequality exists. You’re the one making this improbable, offensive claim here.

Society already treats people differently. White people are treated differently than black people. Men are treated differently than women. Straight people are treated differently than gay people. And on and on and on. Humans are products of their environment. An unequal society perpetuates – surprise – inequality.

Sansa’s Lemoncakes: Prove. it. Don’t just come with some essentialist bullshit about how men are ambitious and women are empathetic and that’s why inequality exists. You’re the one making this improbable, offensive claim here.
Society already treats people differently. White people are treated differently than black people. Men are treated differently than women. Straight people are treated differently than gay people. And on and on and on. Humans are products of their environment. An unequal society perpetuates – surprise – inequality.

Prove that it’s about sexism and racism, and i’ll get cracking. We don’t know 100% for sure what it is. Only thing thats sure is that it’s not 100% about the one or the other. It has yet to be proven. We are all making observations and assuming. If i ever seemed like i KNEW this, then i was being unclear.

You’re also twisting my words. I don’t care to explain whats wrong with it for you though. IWhat i’m saying should be obvious enough in my posts.

Epic the Christ: Everyone who wrote something here: I forgive you.

This!
:D

I think I should make it clear that it’s not like i do not think racism or sexism exists. At least i have called at least one person in here sexist, so thats something. I just think theres (a lot) more to it.

This turned out to be a nice discussion! I really have no problem with us fans judging the actors by looks untill it gets really offensive (calling people ugly hags). Harpo’s criticism was a bit premature: I’ve read every castingthread and they ALL start with the looks of the actor (NCW’s nose, Addy’s build, Alfie Allen’s face, Momoa’s muscles), but eventually a better discussion starts. Men/Women/Black/White we all nitpick/complain/bitch/praise about every actor, let’s thank the Old Gods the Tamzin Merchant/Michelle Fairley threads are behind us instead of complaining about sexism in a thread where a woman is praised for her looks.

WOAH! 6’3! that’s the PERFECT match for NCW/aka (and i am saying it gently) “the kingslayer!” she can put lil’ michelle in her pocket. keep her safe. “-)

give her false teeth, no makeup – the transformation is as easy as catching a cat. “-)
just lookit what HBO did to robin weigert on DEADWOOD.
but she has STUNNING eyes, you gotta admit that! even in BW you can tell!

the casting is by far, the most sublime thinking happening in this series – they haven’t missed yet in my VerrrryyyHO. huzzah to gwendoline!

sjwenings,
You can see the evidence by taking off the blinkers and having a look around. Try and take note of disparate attitudes towards men and women. Why are ambitious men to be admired and ambitious women called bitchy? Why are tomboys accepted and sissy boys derided? Why does the ‘blaming the victim’ mentality manifest so often in rapes but not in other non-sexualised crimes? Why is there a greater societal pressure on women than men to raise children? Why are women slut-shamed when they have multiple sexual partners yet men are lauded? Why when I watch a movie are most of the characters male while female characters are mostly marginalised or eye candy?

Girls and boys are socialised literally from birth to fit into strict gender roles

And then, when they’re in their most developmental stages, there are gendered toy ads galore

Women are sexualised in the media to a ridiculous degree

The division of labor is still heavily divided along gender lines, with women doing most of their share

So yes, I’m going to assume that society as a whole is still sexist and wildly unequal, and that it stems from cultural and social conditioning rather than people’s genes determining their place in society.

This conversation is wildly off-topic already, so I’m going to stop posting about it, but before I do, I’m going to sincerely ask you to read up on male privilege and really think about it.

Here is another clip of her on youtube, they ugly her up for this at the end of the clip and she isn’t wearing make up in the beginning so she looks really plain. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0nQO-r48j4

Shes a perfect choice.

I agree that the picture posted here is a little unnerving, but after seeing all the little links that people have posted; You tube videos, and pictures… WOW!

Perfect cast!!

She shows on more than one clip, her dominating, physically, men with her size. Awsome!

And she really looks like a ‘Brienne’: Plain, pretty eyes, huge…

Tee hee, love watching this thread.

The self-fulfilling prophecy of disagreement on the character morphs into a full blown n-gate simply due to hyper-sensitivity.

Calm down peeps, it will all be alright.

this is just an observation that I’ve had and this thread might be the best place for it: There have been, as others have mentioned, several criticisms about the show being sexist (I would assume they are all by non-readers). What shocked me about that assertion was first that the reviewers had only seen 5-6 episodes of the story but second was that I (I am a man), my girlfriend and all the women I know who’ve read the story find it one of the few stories they’ve read (that was written by a man and that might be important to mention) that contained appropriately strong female characters. If a person were to come up and say they have never seen a piece of fantasy fiction that wasn’t sexist, AGoT would be the first series i would bring up to argue against them. What are the thoughts of other folks? I hope it’s true that as the series rolls on critics realize that the “sexist” walls that were built into the society early in the series were built to be torn down. Thoughts?

She’s not even close to looking homely lol. But I think when we’ll see her on the screen she’ll look her part. Can’t wait for the next season.

GOT isn’t on cartoon network, or abc family so you’re apt to see mannnny naughty bits as THIS is the way the books were written. human bodies, human blood, human frailties, human horrors. (LITTLE THIRSTY LORD OF THE VALE!! i squirmed MORE at those exposed headlights than annny other place in S1!)

the series isn’t sexist – it’s sexy. like the books. it’s intelligent and for us adults. men and frog spear girls. this is the world he created. lemoncakes and littlefingers (ahem!)

can’t WAIT for S2! wheeee!

obsidian,

Nah, it was just Jesus. Epic the Christ is the true King of Kings.

Kingthlayer,

I agree with you and Obsidian. For me, the only female character I think it is weak is Liza… perhaps crazier than weak. Brienne I like but she´s a little silly to me (i´m sorry) Cat and Sansa made me nervous but then I felt sorry for them. In general all the women are strong, it´s true and almost all the male characters, no matter how “tough” these men think they´re, are touched and inspired by some of these women instead of feeling fear and loathing for them… and that´s news!!!
And those that seem to me very silly or cruel characters are well distributed between men and women. So, very few sexist characters I think… maybe some Dothraki warriors?
I guess we should ask Cersei about this, don´t you think? She seems most concern with this issue.

Kingthlayer,

I think if the ratings remain high ,even the most severe critics will have to come back for a second look . Then , if they’re honest and not just looking to defend their original position , we may see an alteration…

andrea,

Lysa is definitely off the rails ( driven there partly because she’s been in a completely powerless position for much of her life ) and we know her fate , because we’ve read the books.;)

But I still have hope for Sansa. I sense perhaps a stronger core , there. If there is some ultimate betrayal coming for her via Littlefinger, perhaps her inner Stark will come to the fore. And if she ever finds herself in a position of authority, I doubt she’ll use it as foolishly as Lysa.

Brienne, maybe especially with this casting, could be one of those characters that are appealing to more people on the screen than in the books. Of course everyone looks forward to her fight scenes, but I really want to see her interaction with Cat, Hyle Hunt, and her last conversation with Jaime.

purplejilly,

could I quote you on that? :)

I feel like this is Season 2′s Peter Dinklage. She is perfect for the role. You would not have found anyone better.

Makeup can easily overcome the objections about her looks. The important thing is that she can act. She will be able to hold her own in scenes with Michelle Fairley and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and her should do well in an increasing role as a POV character by book 3.

Oracle,
Forget ugly. I hope they can add some tv bulk to her. She needs to look physically strong. And maybe emotionally vulnerable.

obsidian,

I’ll be keeping tabs on things, for sure! I love to talk about my work, and I find that people are sometimes most affected by the smallest and subtlest touches. Good and commited actors always do their homework as well, and will often have requests and ideas about things their characters would do, wear and look like – the whole process is quite organic between the creatives (writers, directors and designers) the talent and the technicians (wardrobe, hair, make up, props etc.).

I know there was a lot of debate about some of the hair in the show (some justified, imo), but I will say that the make up has been pretty top drawer. And thank the gods they didn’t try to make the Targ’s eyes purple – coloured contact lenses never look natural. Blue to brown is passable, but dark to light just looks glaucous and weird and would have been terribly distracting.

Devongirl,

Same thing with Tyrion and his mis-matched eyes. There’s a big difference between reading about them a couple of times and looking at them every time he’s on screen. It makes me think about the show going “only part-way” and it turning out fine.

I remember when Mark Addy was cast as Robert people were talking about how, at 5’10″, he wasn’t going to be tall enough. Others chimed in say not to worry, that they could use camera angles to make him seem taller, have him stand on a box, etc.

In the end, it seems like they didn’t really do anything special and he was fine. Was King Robert towering in HEIGHT? Not really. Was he still a huge presence? Absolutely.

I think of this whenever I read suggestions that they’ll have Gwendoline Christie wear some kind of mouth appliance. Could they do it? Yes, but to bring up the oft-used Robin Weigert example, you don’t need it. A lot of this kind of transformation isn’t what someone wears on their face but their characterization.

That’s why it’s great to hear you chime in on this stuff.

Mike Chair: I love the way GRRM uses these repetitions to establish a type of cadence in his work.“Winter is coming”‘“A Lannister always pays his debts”; “you know nothing, Jon Snow”; “I am only a young girl and do not understand the ways of war”; “She’s been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and probably Moon Boy for all I know.“ and this …

“I’m looking for a maid of three-and-ten … A highborn maid and very beautiful … with blue eyes and auburn hair … She may have been traveling with a fool.”

Of course, that would mean we’re in season 4.

And now (minor Dance spoiler) Tyrion’s persistent “Where do whores go?”

With regards to Gwendoline Christie’s casting, as well as the potential casting of Asha/Yara Greyjoy, one of the factors that will weigh heavily in the final product is the ability to fight. These two actresses are going to have to take a page from Maisie Williams and get on it with some good fight instructors and fitness coaches in order to look and act the part as warriors. Let’s face it, so far we haven’t seen any female role taking up arms besides Arya, even though in the books several do (Chella and those ears?). Brienne and A/Y won’t be real unless they can A) Act and B) Fight. I’ve got faith in Nina Gold for the first, and I was encouraged to read that Gwendoline was already in search of some combat instruction. I am definitely looking forward to more good fight scenes in S2, that was the one element that I thought was a bit lacking in S1 (the truth is, the tournament was a let down). I am looking forward to seeing Brienne in that Tarth armor…

Talon Lannister: see any of her “suitors” that she are mentioned in AFFC. I think after she wins the melee, they could show her preparing for the feast afterward and one of them could show up then. I’d love to actually see her deal with one or two of these guys as opposed to maybe hearing about it later.

I think this is a great cast but I don’t think fighting ability will be much of a factor until her duel with Jaime HBO seems to be allergic to large scenes with fighting so I strongly doubt we will see much if anything of the melee. And the former fight will probably take place in a third season, if there is one. I am rather looking forward to her dropping a boulder onto a ship and doing a 20 foot dive. (Not holding my breath that such a difficult scene to shoot will be included either though.)

As far as people moaning and groaning about her physicality, I think she is close to perfect. Especially given her acting chops. Plus she doesn’t take a bath with Jaime until they are at Harrenhal, plenty of time for her to build up some musculature.

Already theres a Jamie/Brienne vid up on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ve4LQRO0GM&feature=related

I’m getting pretty exited seing these two together on screen. Looking forward to a beauty and the beast kind of pairing here, only this time, the guy’s the beauty.

I can totally see this working. She’s beautiful, but they can use makeup etc. to ugly her up, for sure.

I just hope she finds CrossFit or some other fitness program. Even at 6’3″ she looks small and soft. Brienne needs to be a strong knight, capable of besting Jaime Lannister and Loras Tyrell

Just take a look at Charlize Theron in “Monster”. Even a beautiful woman like her can easily be made hideous. From what I have seen of Ms Christie though, she is a very nice person and I almost hope they veer a little from the story and don’t ugly her up too much. Brienne is a second tier character but gets a lot of play and if she does this good she should be recognizable to further her limited film career.