Top 7: Worst Story Changes
By Fire And Blood on in Editorial, Recap.

Well, we gave you Top 7: Best Story Changes, and in doing so also promised you the other side of the coin. Here is where the other side comes up. Let it be known this is not meant as a dig, a diss, or a dash of cold water across the faces of people who’ve worked hard on what turned out to be the best show of 2011. We here especially at Winter Is Coming understand the work that went into it. We appreciate it wholeheartedly.

(A wise man once said that anything preceding the word “But” doesn’t really matter…)

BUT… nothing is perfect. The Wire wasn’t perfect. Firefly wasn’t perfect. The Mary Tyler Moore show wasn’t perfect. Perfect is a myth; it’s the great white whale, and chasing it is like to drive you mad.

Amidst these battered and harried days of Yaragate and Slavegate, House Gatewatch thinks it prudent to once more step back within the trappings of season one, peer with discerning eyes into the past and see what did not precisely jive. Opinions, of course, will differ. Our intent here is to give our opinions on what was lacking. What went perhaps slightly awry. It is not to criticize; hell it’s not even to enact change in season two, which is (one hopes) pretty much already written and set in stone. Or at least in fast-drying concrete. But if we can give the powers-that-be the smallest glimpse into our minds and they see (miracle of miracles) one or two concerns agreed on by the masses, well…

Perhaps then we’ve done some good. We are the forefront of the fandom. I see this as our solemn (if grim) responsibility. This one’s for the whiners, the bitchers, the trolls and the dedicated contrarians.

Unlike the last Top 7 list, there will be no rules here. Complain about whatever you want. I strongly advise the loyalists and the stalwarts who tend to rise up and defend everything and anything—well, if you find you cannot participate, I advise you to simply take the day off. If Game of Thrones was, for you, the epitome of perfection… this may only be an exercise in painful futility.

Let’s try to remember this is intended to be about opinions. Let’s try to keep the suggestions civil, yes?

(Warning: there will be SPOILERS from the first season and the first book, A Game of Thrones.)

Here are my Top 7: Worst Story Changes:

1. Bad dogs! Sure, it couldn’t be helped. Yes, the pooches did almost nothing on cue, ate pieces of the set and shat wherever they damn well pleased. Never work with small kids or animals is the old axiom, and yet that was impossible to follow, what with direwolves being needed on set. Luckily, Maisie Williams and Art Parkinson did not try to bite anybody (we think). So yes, we’ve heard the tales of woe. It still doesn’t negate the fact that the direwolves were used far too sparingly. Even if they refused to behave on camera when people were around… surely they rested occasionally! A few inserted shots of Ghost sitting near the campfire would have made all the difference in the world. Seriously, a friend of mine thought Ghost snarling at Rast was a metaphor. And a few more shots of Grey Wind wouldn’t have hurt either. Run him through a field, use CGI to insert him next to the charging horses… voila. The wolves are a vital part that were missed far too often.

2. Curious omissions: Where Are They Now? No Blackfish, no Roose Bolton, no Mya Stone. The Blackfish, I fear (and I fear for Blackfish Blues) is in peril, but no more than Mya Stone, who would have been best served meeting Catelyn en route to the Eyrie. With her omission, it’s hard to see why she need be included at all. Without her connection to Catelyn she’s just another one of Robert’s bastards. Roose Bolton I’m not as worried about; you need him for certain scenes this season, right? Like who would replace him if not him? One could argue Ramsay Bolton is more important than Roose, so why not amalgamate them… but I just can’t see that happening. I think Roose is just a late-comer. I think we won’t get a Mya. And I think the Blackfish is starting to run out of breathing space. (Edit: and whither Pod? We need someone to blame. Get Tyrion his Pod in season two!)

3. Ros the Traveling Tart. Say what you will about the occasional added character (Kings Landing Butler was awesome), this is one we keep scratching our heads over. Apologies to Esmé Bianco, because she’s certainly within her element here, playing the sassy young woman we most oft see bereft of clothes. But we’re still trying hard to get the story significance. Unless Ros is garnering a swath of tales to one day tell—maybe she’s like a nude version of Forrest Gump, somehow present during many points of historical significance—wouldn’t it have been easier to stick to the wenches we already know and love? Kyra, maybe? Of course it could be that you all have something bigger up your sleeves for this young lady, and we simply don’t know all the details yet. But so far, all it’s been is an assload of ass.

4. King’s Landing, where are your people? Has there been an emptier looking capital city than King’s Landing? The book describes a roaring crowd, but the gathering at the Tourney of the Hand looked smaller than the jayvee football game crowds I used to go to in high school, and this is even after we’ve learned the crowd were digitally added. People, if a thousand look good, then five thousand would look great. And if you can’t fit them all into the small raised area you chose for your tourney grounds, well… maybe you chose the wrong area for your tourney grounds. We weren’t expecting A Knight’s Tale level of roaring masses (especially if accompanied by cheesy ’70′s rock anthems), but… something more, I guess. Across the sea we were missing out on Dothraki numbers as well. Now, one caveat I must voice is the fact that some people thought they were complaining about King’s Landing when in fact certain scenes were set in the Red Keep courtyard. Understandably, the Red Keep would have less people milling about. But in the end, K.L. needed to bolster its status of “crowded capital city.”

5. In brightest day, in blackest…. night? Scenes that happened in night during the book happened in broad daylight in the show losing some of their drama and suspense. The biggest offenders of these were Ned vs. Jaime in the streets of King’s Landing, which was still a cool scene, but would have been even cooler if it happened on a dark and stormy night. The other: Mirri Maz Duur working her blood magic. Creepy enough, but imagine the scene if it were dark in the camp while Drogo’s tent was lit up by magic as the shadows of demons danced on its walls. At least the birth of the dragons was still at night… although their reveal happened in the early light of dawn.

6. Season one sans San/San! The overall change in the Hound’s demeanor was disappointing enough (the show Sandor seemed more bored with the world rather than the book Sandor’s more cynical and bitter view). But then they went and cut his best scene, where he escorts Sansa back to her room and opens up about his past, losing out on an opportunity to provide the Hound with more depth. And it took away one of the San/San crowds’ cherished moments.

7. The Whispering Wood: blink and you miss it. Beyond the lack of any battle scenes whatsoever, which is understandable given the budget constraints, our biggest grudge was with the “change” in the battle of the Whispering Woods scene. It plays out similarly to the book, in that we don’t get to see the actual battle, but much of the suspense is lost. In the book, Robb leads a small contingent of cavalry against Jaime’s forces — a risky gamble and the outcome of the battle is hardly a sure thing. The battle itself is told through the sounds that Cat hears from afar; the suspense building as she worries her son may not return to her alive. Until finally we see Robb ride into view with the Kingslayer in tow. In the show, we have a large Northern force descending upon the smaller Lannister force and the audience barely has time to even process what this means before Robb emerges from the woods victorious. Just a bad change all around: Tywin is made to look dumber, Robb less bold and the suspense of the moment is lost on the TV viewing audience.

What say you, House Gatewatch faithful? Do you agree with our list? Were there other changes that rankled? Be vocal, be opinionated, but remember, be civil!


314 Comments

  1. Michael Silva
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    I think the lack of Hound scenes was the greatest disappointment from season one.

  2. Kevin
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    1 – Ros – really any scene with her, but watching her take the whore’s bath while Pycelle rambled on….ugh.
    2 – Pycelle in his see through gown. TMI
    3 – Taking away the Sandor/Sansa scene and giving the story to LF
    4 – LF’s monologue with the background girl on girl playacting
    5 – Anything the book described with a quantity of people (the city of KL, the crowd at the Hand’s Tourney, the pathetically small Dothraki horde).
    6 – The boar hunt (technically not an “added” scene per se, but weird to watch a 4 person hunt in this society).
    7 – Tyrion getting knocked out before battle

  3. The Young Wolf
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Having not read the books at the time, I didn’t really have any problem with how the Whispering Wood was portrayed. It worked really well for me. Having Tywin say that the majority of Robb’s forces were elsewhere hit home, then to have Robb come out of the woods victorious in the next scene- total winner. On top of it all, to have Jaime dropped on the ground, defeated, that was a complete shock, and elicited cheers from everyone I was watching it with. The whole thing really worked, and even after having read the book, I kind of like the way they did it in the show better.

  4. peter
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Burp!, I swallow to much of the story already and I also have still to read the 1st book.
    The TV series are superb for me. Your story is all the same with other franchises.
    Its cinema versus literature. As a purist says once over the LOTR movies:
    We have now two versions and I’m glad that we have them now both. I go with this thought.
    Don’t let the hype of the TV series and the books be disturb!!!!.

    BUT ….Let it be is mine advise

  5. Nick Larter
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    For me the thing that they didn’t succeed in conveying at all well was the passage of time and the sense of distance – it’s 1000 leagues from Kings Landing to the Wall, which is about 3000 miles depending on who you read, so maybe 800 leagues to Winterfell – yet the Kingsroad episode didn’t get this across at all and we had other examples – Ros and her jet propelled turnip cart – Cat’s journey to king’s landing by sea being entirely offscreen – not even a shot of her and Rodrik riding into a harbour. Would it really have hurt to use old devices like an onscreen map with some route markings, or a ‘three weeks later’ caption?

  6. Milan Petrovic
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    I don’t see a point of such lists. I have read books few times and I have seen the first season few times, and I can’t list a single thing that I can complain about.

    Problem with such lists is that they don’t take into account restrictions of a media and the budget they have. It’s easy to watch and than complain about every little detail. I am amazed how much they managed to include wolves at all so far, or by the fact that they kept so many characters. None of the characters you listed is important so far (yes, they may be interesting, but in overall scheme not important), and some of them can be cut from all future seasons, their parts can be given to someone else without loosing the story. Special effects are expensive and having magic tent fires is just too much. I even think that that scene looks better than in the book. Book can afford to be broad, to have hundreds minor characters that may have interesting stories on their own, but TV show cant afford so many digressions from main story or it will loose pace and in the end it will loose viewers.

    They had their limited budget, limited number of episodes and limited time, and yet, they still managed to make a show that can stand on it’s own and I admire the work that is put into it. I am not going to complain just for sake of complaining.

  7. Paco
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Agree 100% with SanSan forever The minute Littlefinger started with his story, I started raging. I remember that being the first time I went all W.T.F.!!! at a story change.

    The lack of direwolves was also extremely glaring. They didnt even have to do anything, like you said. They couldve just been there. chillin’, being their badass self, by the fire. Im really looking forward to seeing how the dragons and the direwolves are handled in the second season, mainly because of how the wolves were handled in Season 1.

  8. The Winter Rose
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, I agree with these, though two things I also had a problem with were that Kings Landing looked way too Meditarrean, I think. It just didn’t match the way I envisioned it at all and I didn’t like how Sansa was more bitchy and less dreamy. I really think they shortchanged the character by turning her into a snotty brat and not keeping her a wide-eye, naive idealist. I think that really helps counter that character to all the cynicism around her. Guess those aren’t so much story changes as details though, but I would say that taking that part of Sansa away takes away from her personal story and character development.

  9. Ryan E
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    #7 was the biggest disappointment to me. I didn’t expect to see the battle of the Whispering woods (though I hoped we might) but they took out all of the drama and suspense… they should have just explained the plan before hand, so the viewer knew what was going on and what the stakes were when Cat was waiting on the hill.

    I didn’t mind Ros, because her natural assets brightened up what could have been boring exposition scenes. You are so right on #1, just a few random shots of the wolves would’ve kept them in the viewers mind. I agree with #4, the scale of King’s Landing should have been larger, especially the tourney. #5 I agree with on Miiri Maaz Dur.

    #2 and #6 didn’t bother me at all.

    Edit: The boar hunt was the worst change… they should not have shown it at all, it was so silly seeing these 4 guys just walking around the forest. Weakest hunting party ever… no horses even?

  10. Jerry Glonek
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    You know,

    Actually this is all going to have to behind a spoiler tag for A Dance with Dragons stuff:

    The common thought on that Pycelle scene in the show as to give him more depth and show he has some scheming of his own going on right? And it was mentioned before the show that George had to give away some character plots in future books to make sure things were set up right in the show, right?

    So, considering that Pycelle’s whole appearance in A Dance with Dragons was to be killed by Varys, what was the point?

  11. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    I agree about Sandor and his story, and about the night/day scenes. It would have been so easy to make some of those scenes you describe even more hard-hitting and dramatic, but for the most part Westeros was feeling like the land of days that last weeks and not just seasons that last years. ;p
    Also…Ros. ):

    In terms of Sandor, I’m hoping they’ll have him retell her his story in the second season. If they do that then they are forgiven!

  12. Elena Amici
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    i’m about to read the post.. i just wanted to say, SLAVEGATE is sooo funny :D lol

  13. Maxwell James
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Agree with Milan in that the budget/time restrictions are probably responsible for most of these. But they’re not responsible for items 3 and 6, both of which I also found to be poor choices.

    What else?

    1. No explanation for Will’s escape from the Others. In the book this was at least somewhat clear.
    2. No Tower of Joy dream. I’m not a fanatic about this, but I think they could have done it, even if it was just a faint “Promise me, Ned” when he was conked out.
    3. Not enough cold opens. I really like cold opens and think the show could have made great use of them (the ToJ would have been a great one), but for some reason they chose to avoid them in every episode but the first.
    4. Eliminating Sansa’s betrayal. Yes, it would have made audiences hate her, but it also would have fulfilled a narrative function (explaining why the girls were still in KL, 2 episodes later) that left some people scratching their heads.
    5. Osha the Skeptic. After Bran had the dream of Ned, we see Osha carrying him and playing the skeptic about the possibility the dream had any significance. Very out of character, even within the scope of the series.

  14. heybuddywhatsup
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    The lack of Sandor (and the completely different demeanor of Sandor) made the show good instead of amazing. At least for me and a couple other Sandor fangirls I know.

  15. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    The Winter Rose:
    Y I didn’t like how Sansa was more bitchy and less dreamy. I really think they shortchanged the character by turning her into a snotty brat and not keeping her a wide-eye, naive idealist. I think that really helps counter that character to all the cynicism around her. t I would say that taking that part of Sansa away takes away from her personal story and character development.

    YES. I thought that scene with Septa Mordane was very out of character, to be honest. A big part of Sansa is how polite she is.

  16. Ingemar Svensson
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    I must have missed something…What is slavegate?

  17. David Moore
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    I didn’t have any big problems with the points mentioned. Yes, they were all a bit annoying, but nothing to make me hate things.

    However, as the show goes along, I think that the show and books will continue to diverge until one has very little to do with the other. Basic concepts, names, etc. But the story lines will be unrecognizable.

    If HBO doesn’t play its cards right, I could see the series being virtually unwatchable by late season 3 or season 4.

  18. Jordan Burgen
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    I missed the trek up to the Eyrie. It makes the “impregnable” part make sense. Instead we got a road that leads straight to it, albeit part of it is a very narrow bridge. The scenery and the castle was pretty cool, and i loved the Moon Door in the floor, but i just think the difficulty of getting to it should have been more apparent.

  19. Matthew Gallagher
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    The Weirwoods only have eyes instead of faces. I understand that the eyes are important parts, but I think it might cause issues later. And faces could have been cooler/creepier.

  20. Steve the Pirate
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Sorry, dude, I think most of the list is nitpicking and the changes were justified. And the Whispering Woods wasnt even a change.

  21. Goran Gljiva
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Milan Petrovic,

    Bravo bre Milutine. Sve si im lepo reko!

  22. Adrian
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Matthew Gallagher,

    Every weirwood they showed had a face.

    Ros is far and away the worst. Far and away.

  23. Brad Villane
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    the lack of Hound/Sansa Little Birdness was the biggest letdown for me.

    Littlefinger porn scene was the only cringe-worthy scene (cringe worthy as in ‘this is terrible’, not ‘this is creepy’) in all of season 1.

    So Charles Dance ruled as Tywin, but can we not get some mutton chop action? Don’t know why, but those chops were really key to my vision of him.

    I can forgive some of the things that were missing because of budget (tourney/wolves/battles). It was always the price we were going to have to pay to see the story realized on television. I’ll take the ten hour, character centric, faithful adaptation of the books any day to a two and a half hour, big budget, plot raping movie!

  24. Tessa Leonie
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    I concurr with your points, mostly about the fact that a few more direpuppies inserts would be good. Not sure how to judge Ross, is she there as D&D’s signature? Or as a way to get a sexposition talking partner, i’m still not convinced.

  25. john
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    The Littlefinger stealing the Hound’s story thing was far and away the worst imo. I actually found the Ros stuff amusing and didn’t really mind the character omissions. It just made no sense to take one of the weirdest and coolest parts of the story and get rid of it, especially when there was no budget cost to doing it. My hope is that they wanted to condense the San/San stuff to the second season to make it more coherent.

    I understand that the wolves were hard to work with, but like FaB said, why not add them sitting down by a camp fire or just find little ways just to remind us that they are there.

  26. The Rabbit
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    I agreed for certain on the direwolves matter.
    Even on the matter of lack of the prople in KL.

    But, the rest do not bothered me at all.
    Even I very much liked the change to the dawn finale.

    But, the stuff I missed a lot were some memorables quotes from the book which did not find the way into the show:

    Ned and Bran on the bravery of men.
    “It should have been you”
    Cersei and Ned in the Goodswood in KL. (in the book the dialogue seemed much stronger)
    Jon pleading for Sam s sake with MaesterAemon.
    And maybe more, but I fail to recall it now.

  27. Eleanor
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    Ooh, I loved the show so much that coming up with 7 will be hard! And we can’t even bitch about annoying added scenes because they don’t count as story changes!

    OK.

    1) Cersei’s black-haired beauty. Seriously, what was the point of that? If they were trying to push the ‘blond = Lannister because Robert only sires black-haired kids’ angle it truly backfired.

    2) Sandor being denied any opportunity to call Sansa ‘little bird’. That scene where Sandor tells the story himself has such a wonderful combination of vulnerability revealed and ferocity. I can imagine Sophie Turner doing a great job reacting to him.

    3) Renly no longer being a dandy that the crowd love. Quite apart from anything else, the lack of ordinary jousts led some people on TWoP to honestly believe that the entertainment was combat to the death!

    4) Er… no, dammit, I even liked Roz! And I hated the brothel sexposition scene with a passion, but that doesn’t count at all as a story change! I CANNOT THINK OF MORE THAN THREE THINGS.

    4) One more: lack of wolfy help when the wildlings and Osha attack. It would be good to properly establish that the direwolves run to the aid of their humans, though of course Summer’s epic throat-ripping in the second episode was important.

    5) Why did Jorah, and not a Dothraki, say “blood of my blood”? It throws me out of the scene every time. He’s ALREADY devoted to her. The event that makes her über-Targaryen makes him into a Dothraki? whut? If they didn’t want something they had to subtitle, they could have had Rakharo say it in the Common Tongue. We’ve already seen that he knows a fair bit. It could have indicated his willingness to follow Dany for reasons that go beyond a khalasar.

  28. MajorPayne
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    How about the Night’s Watch oath that they had during the day and shortened the oath itself. The whole mood was wrong. It was supposed to be ominous and “bad-ass-sickle”

  29. Fire And Blood
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    I should have also added EveryonelovesTomgate.

    One thing I will reiterate: for me this was the best show of 2011. The nitpicks are small, and quite frankly would not even have been necessary save for the fact that we needed a balance; a little ice to go with the fire of fandom.

    The good outweighs the bad 98 to 2.

    If anyone affiliated with the show read this (and we know plenty do), their first reaction might be, “You’re complaining about this stuff? Really?” then we’ve gotten our message across: damned good show, keep up with good work… and see if you can’t somehow make the awesome outweigh the tardly 99 to 1 next season.

  30. Olaf Gudjohnson
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    everything you mentioned FaB, plus: not showing the connection between the stark kids and their wolfs, Mormont’s raven, the tourney, the dothraki horde and the dreams (Bran’s and Ned’s)

  31. Elena Amici
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    i don’t have many reasons to complain. I understand how filming during day works better than filming at night, how the wispering woods would have been expensive, and how you can’t put everything from the book in the show. Heck, i don’t even mind ros (but i spent the first half of the season thinking that ros was just another name to mean kyra. When i saw ros leaving for KL, i was like “WTF?”)
    Anyway, i don’t have a top 7.. just a rather short top 3 (+1)
    3) king bob hunting. Seriously, people, where is the rest of the hunting party?
    2)LF & the whores. I don’t mind sexposition. I think it’s okay. I’m more than okay with a girl-on-girl scene (i usually like guys, but this doesn’t mind i can’t appreciate a good erotic scene when i see one!).. but that part was just so gross. Not the whole “young prostitute learning the art” scene (that, btw, was just gross & not sensual/ erotic at all), but the way it was portraited, with LF judging them (westeros’s paula abdul!?!) & telling the Sad Story Of His Lost Love. SO ooc.
    1)Direwolves, were are you? As FaBio said, a couple of shoots would have made a great difference. Idk, ghost by the fire or following jon around, nymeria in that feast scene in episode 1, summer in bran’s dreams… just put them in the show!

    HONORABLE MENTION: mormont’s raven.. where the heck is he? i love that bird!!
    fangirlmode:on
    <3 <3 corn!! corn!!
    /fangirlmode:off

    Ok, i'm done. Although thinking about LF & the whores just gave me an idea… now i'm sure ros is one of varys's "little birds"! :D

  32. Morrigan
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    1) Anything with Ros. Her first scene with Tyrion was amusing, and is a decent introduction to Tyrion, but the rest is fluff at best (with Theon), complete garbage at worst (scene with Pycelle, brothel scene with Littlefinger… gag). She has more screen time than the Hound? Really? The Others take you, producers.

    2) I agree with #6. Littlefinger telling the Hound’s story completely removed the emotional impact. The interactions between Sansa and the Hound are awesome and that was one of their finest scenes, removing it for NO REASON WHATSOEVER is just… gah.

    3) Sympathetic “I loved Robert once” Cersei. Wot? No reason for that. Book Cersei hated Robert so much she aborted when he got her pregnant, and (minor AFFC spoilers) she wanted to marry Rhaegar, not Robert, and thought the wrong man came back from the Trident. She loathed him so much she licked off his sperm and imagined she was “murdering his princes”. Her hatred of Robert is powerful, ingrained and neurotic.

    4) No hint whatsoever at “promise me, Ned”. No Tower of Joy is bad enough, but not even any hint that Ned is being haunted by a promise he made to his sister. WTF? It’s such a huge part of him in the book.

    5) Osha. Eh, she’s all right, I guess, but book Osha is so much cooler. I don’t get why GRRM prefers TV Osha. Book Osha is older, experienced, savvy, and dignified. When she surrenders to Robb, she drops on one knee with dignity and quietly asks for mercy. She doesn’t fall down pathetically and starts kissing his boot. She doesn’t act like a cartoonish “noble savage” wench. TV Osha reminds me a bit more of Ygritte (but not as cool) than book Osha. Casting a younger actress wasn’t really a problem but why change her so much?

    6) Tyrion being knocked out of the Green Fork battle. Booooo. So lame and cheesy and wrong.

    7) Whispering Woods. Yeah, yeah, budget etc. Still, with a tiny bit of effort they could have presented something, at a minimal cost.

    There is more, really; the hunting scene was lame, unconvincing and unnecessary, the scene where Robert discusses their first kills was total pointless filler, the Jaime/Catelyn scene taken from book 2 was enjoyable somewhat, but it was butchered and made no sense (Catelyn only interrogates Jaime after she learns of the incest from Stannis), the direwolf discovery scene was poorly executed (and yeah, not enough direwolves in general), the Viserys/Doreah bath scene was dumb, Renly and Shae were completely different characters (and not for the better), Jorah saying “blood of my blood” when it’s a Dothraki saying and the line should have been Rhakaro’s, meh I could go on… let’s just say that while the TV show is pretty good, it’s a far cry from great, let alone perfect.

  33. Raúl Lapuente
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    The Whispering Wood: Orson Welles´ “Chimes at Midnight” battle of Shrewsbury: Jamie Lannister killing Karstark´s sons, attack Robb…”Fade to Black”…I loved watch that added scene.

  34. Joosteen
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    I was a little bothered by the lack of a some very GRRM signature lines and scene bits they could have added just for juice. Like:
    -Jory telling Arya Northmen were worth 10 Southron, then Arya kicking a dead Northmen and repeating that line in anger. Adding two minutes, really.
    -The Hound could have been around more. And his face should be gnarlier. It’s hard to see his scars even in close-ups.
    -Robert should have had one nostalgic hammer scene- maybe just picking it up and sighing. A half minute scene tacked on anywhere.
    -More Barristan- why was he left out of the small council?
    -One more Northern Lord. Umber is cool, but we need one more to make it seem more filled out. Establish Karstark now. Or Roose.
    My one nitpick that I can live with: Winterfell should look a tiny bit bigger, and lose the mushroom towers. It should look like a black bricked, ancient castle. That think looks like an ewok village with stone walls.

  35. Flouride
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    1. Battle of Whispering Woods for the reasons posted by FaB.
    2. Not enough Grey Wind, Ghost, Summer…. Yes they must have been awful to work with, still having Summer lay next to Bran wouldn’t be that hard to accomplish.
    3. Ros the travelling ***** for the reasons posted by FaB.
    4. Missing characters. Blackfish? Bolton? Diminished role of Ser Barristan. Why wasn’t he in the council meetings? Lack of flashbacks.
    5. Tournament. It’s was supposed to flood the city with people. Didn’t seem to be very epic.
    6. King goes hunting with Lancel, Renly and Ser Barristan. At least they could afford to give him a spear.
    7. Winter Is Coming. From the look of it, it was already there. Snow in the riverlands, wall and Winterfell. Not a huge deal, but still thought it was a bit silly. Filming especially the riverlands action during summer or early autumn would have helped.

  36. lorinheller
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    One change that I understand but still regret was the switch around of Catelyn not trying to convince Ned to be the King’s Hand at first, and Ned being much more resistant to going.

    What this effectively skipped over was the fact clearly shown in the book that Ned realized from the beginning that he shouldn’t leave Winterfell and that he didn’t belong in King’s Landing.

    When people call Ned stupid, I always think, “He knew from the beginning it was a bad idea,” and that self-knowledge I think would have added dimension to Ned and his tragedy.

  37. Assunta
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    My biggest let down was the dirth of San/San scenes or even just Sandor scenes. I love that story line and Sandor is one of my favorite characters. I also saw too little wolves and WAY too much Ros.

    Maxwell James,

    What is a “cold open”?

  38. Petyr
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    For me it was some changes to the dialogue of the book for no good reason. For one, when they found the direwolves, the exchange between Jon and Theon was changed because… I dunno? It would have taken 5 seconds more to follow the book.
    The other one that gets me is Littlefingers joke about ships and brothels. They cut the part out where he talks about them being boarded by pirates, and there is a 5 second silence while he walks across the room towards Ned. Why they didn’t have him finish the joke while walking across the room, I do not know.

    Finally, when Bran and Rickon sense Ned is dead, I felt it lacked the impact of the book. “You know what it says boy” and “we will need to find a stonecarver who knew your father well” should have made it in there somewhere.

  39. Blackfish Blues
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    I vote for #2 as the worst: “Curious omissions”. I love FaB for thinking about me. Lack of Blackfish in S2 (= BloodyGate) was bad enough. If he’s not in S2, I’ll raise hell. More when I’m sober.

  40. NickS
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    1. Not enough of the Direwolves
    2. Shae
    3. except for The Wall, the epic scope of the world of Westeros (and beyond) did not translate well
    4. Shae
    5. Blackfish & Bolton being left out
    6. knocking out Tyrion before the Battle of the Green Fork
    7. SHAE… holy moses she was horrendous. everything else i mentioned i can forgive, but the decision on Shae was just monumentally bad

  41. Shinyteapot
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    Agree on this, particularly the direwolves. Worst of all, two of them weren’t even referred to by name!

    Some more:

    Sansa’s personality- in the book she’s naive, dreamy, extremely annoying, but unfailingly polite. She wants to be a perfect lady. TV Sansa is rude and it really detracts from the character I think.

    Dany’s wedding night- I understand why the change was made, but it really detracts from Drogo as a character. I respected him far more in the book, he was as considerate of Dany as he knew how to be- doesn’t excuse that he just did what he wanted every other time, but he’s a cardboard cutout of a character at best, he needs all the little bits of depth he can get. (Worst lack-of-change was Drogo not getting more of a personality, we still only saw him with Dany, so it was just like being restricted to her POV).

    Renly’s personality and tournament absence- he’s a wimp. He might never have fought in a war, but he competes in tournaments and is loved by the crowd, the audience won’t believe the people love him now. On a related note, Loras is too skinny to swing a sword! Needs some muscles!

    Cersei’s first child- I am working under the assumption that we’ll later find out she killed him deliberately, but it is still a change that bothers me.

    Lack of Jeyne Poole- Sansa could have done with her to talk to and the character becomes important later on. I know this might cause a problem with contracts, but there’s enough time before she reappears that if the actress weren’t available later a recast wouldn’t be that noticable..

    Littlefinger’s sexposition- I don’t buy him telling his life story to a couple of whores. For all he knows, one might work for Varys, or Cersei, or just about anyone else.

    No flashbacks- while I understand the decision, it’s annoying because we know at least one was filmed, and I really want to see it!

  42. Elena Amici
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    Morrigan: 3) Sympathetic “I loved Robert once” Cersei. Wot? No reason for that. Book Cersei hated Robert so much she aborted when he got her pregnant, and (minor AFFC spoilers) she wanted to marry Rhaegar, not Robert, and thought the wrong man came back from the Trident. She loathed him so much she licked off his sperm and imagined she was “murdering his princes”. Her hatred of Robert is powerful, ingrained and neurotic.

    4) No hint whatsoever at “promise me, Ned”. No Tower of Joy is bad enough, but not even any hint that Ned is being haunted by a promise he made to his sister. WTF? It’s such a huge part of him in the book.

    yep, you’re right. I forgot how annoying that cersei’s line was. I loved robert once WHAT? you’ve been sleeping with jaime for years (i’m not even talking about that thing in book 4 about cersei’s first “crush”)
    YOU SCHEMING, EVIL BITCH (i’m quoting here :D)

    And that part about losing her black-haired boy was bad, too.
    from AGOT (spoiler if you watch the show without reading the books) the idea that jon was cersei’s black haired son was kinda fun at the beginning of the seasons, but then is plain obvious that cersei and ned almost hate each other. Anyway, cersei had an aborting because she DIDN’t want robert’s son. The baby wasn’t even born.
    This is quite a big mistake, because (spoiler book four) maggy the frog predicted how many kids cersei would have had. it’s three, not four.

    About the promise me ned stuff.. well i missed those parts too. A lot.
    But maybe there is a simple reason why those parts aren’t in the book: ASOIAF was planned to be a triology once, so many informations about jon’s parentage are in book 1. Actually, the ONLY informations that support R+L are in book 1. Maybe D&D didn’t want to give away those informations so soon – and they gave us cersei’s black haired baby instead.
    I still think (hope) they’ll put a ToJ scene somewhere. D&D are not bonded to martin’s pov structure, they can put a flashback whenever they want to.

    more thoughts..
    1)WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED to that freaking “brandon killed in the trone room” scene?
    2) jon didn’t call arya “little sister” What the hell?

    (whatthehell MODE: off)

  43. Lord of Fangs
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    First, I’ll say that this is probably the best tv show I’ve ever seen (biased as I may be). But in this thread, we’re talking about worsts!

    While I understand why they did it, the biggest letdown for me was the lack of the Battle of the Green Fork. Tyrion being brave and heroic, the Mountain roaring commands from horseback, etc, was looking forward to it all.

    Also I was disappointed that they didn’t show the Hound getting his white cloak, he just kind of shows up with it following Selmy’s dismissal. The overall lack of the Hound in general was pretty disappointing.

    *Hated* the Littlefinger “play with her ass” scene, just pointless and a waste of screentime that could have gone towards much more.

  44. Fire And Blood
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    One note on FLASHBACKS. Yes, they were missed. No Tower of Joy, no “Promise me, Ned.”

    I won’t be certain that they were 100% necessary until we get a few more seasons under our belts. It may simply be a stylistic difference in how they want to tell the story. They’re not just going to omit things like, say, the mystery behind Jon’s parentage. It’s a HUGE part of the story.

    I am of the opinion that most flashbacks will take place when the characters themselves are having actual flashbacks, i.e. a certain prophetic scene Dany has at the end of book 2. And a problem with television flashbacks are they tend to be a lot more direct (or factual) than a a few vague words on a piece of paper. It’s harder to hide things on camera. (Case in point: Arstan Whitebeard will always look like Ian McElhinney.)

    But I still can’t say that adding maybe one small snippet—a flash of a tower rising from the mists, silhouettes before it, a tear-blurred vision of an unknown woman’s face whispering “Promise me,” and then blue rose petals falling from her hand—would have given too much away.

    I would have liked that.

  45. Terri Axtell
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    I agree on Shae. Ultra-fail…not how I pictured her at all.

    Also, is Ros the only whore in the land? Enough already!
    I hope she dies soon.
    >.>
    <.<

  46. DibuK
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    More than plot/scene changes- character changes were the ones that tended to irk me.

    Sansa going from a head-full-of-songs-lady-courtesies-above-all kind of girl to an annoying, snarky, talkbacky teenager was bad. I know it went with the aging but I’m still not convinced it was a must- I knew many sweet, naive, gentle, romantically deluded 16 years old back… hell, I was one myself, come to think of it…. and in our day and age, you can find some, pushing 40s and beyond, still unspoiled.
    I think it’s gonna hurt Sansa’s arc overall.

    Lisa Tully- too one dimensional. She had other sides to her border-line personality: she could be sugary, needy and frightened AS WELL as overly protective, imposing and paranoid- all in a span of minutes.
    This might be a director or actress issue but if the writers wont touch on Lisa’s tragic back-story next season, the character would fall flat. That would be a pity.

    Jaime- needed to be more hateful. So we could love him later on.

    Littlefinger – ffs, tone him down! He’s so obviously manipulative, ambitious, cunning and faking, you would never know his true gift lays in making friends and intimating with people (especially women). We never see, as Sansa in AFFC, the two LFs: Petyr and Lord Baelish.

  47. Geoff Fossenier
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    1. The wolves needed more screen time period, figure it out.
    2. The scale was much smaller than i would have liked as well and by scale i mean everything mentioned above. The armies, the battles, the crowds, the distance traveled etc, etc
    3. Rose i could handle but her travelling to King’s Landing was kinda lame, like they couldn’t find someone else to get naked for HBO.
    4. Night and Day the scenes would have been better at night but i can live with that.
    5. The biggest ones for me are the Sandor Sansa plot that was huge in the books IMO, and Sansa’s betrayal that really helps fuel the hatred for her and i think George wants you to hate her at least for now.
    6. Surprised that no one has mentioned the slight change in Cersai’s character in the books she is much more ruthless. Not only did she never want Robert, but killed her on son. That was a probably the most shocking, was her scene with Cat and Bran.

  48. The Dagger
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    Morrigan,

    Nitpick Much? While I agree with some of the changes that Was mentioned in the article, your just clearly nitpicking at this point. Donot say the TV series is good when clearly you hated it to be honest.

  49. Shinyteapot
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    Nick Larter:
    For me the thing that they didn’t succeed in conveying at all well was the passage of time and the sense of distance – it’s 1000 leagues from Kings Landing to the Wall, which is about 3000 miles depending on who you read, so maybe 800 leagues to Winterfell – yet the Kingsroad episode didn’t get this across at all and we had other examples – Ros and her jet propelled turnip cart – Cat’s journey to king’s landing by sea being entirely offscreen – not even a shot of her and Rodrik riding into a harbour.Would it really have hurt to use old devices like an onscreen map with some route markings, or a ‘three weeks later’ caption?

    The easy way of showing time passing without using captions is to show the seasons changing throughout a tv series, which of course isn’t an option here. I do think the passage of time needed to be made clearer but captions seem clunky. It’s a shame there weren’t more intermediate stage puppies for the direwolves as that would show it well. Hopefully next series the dragons’ growth will be a good timelapse indicator.

  50. Astalnar
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    1. Roz, nothing was worse than this
    2. They killed Mago, and Mago will be back in A Winds of Winter (Mago beeing the one who Drogo killed) GRRM confirmed this
    3. Cersei having some fanthom blackhaired baby
    4. Lack of crowds at Hand’s tourney and in khalasar
    5. Getting cheated out of battles, especialy not seeing how Tyrion “realy” survived the battle
    6. They gave Shae a backstorry. Unnecessary and not needed. Her relationship with Tyrion is simple, uncomplicated and straightforward.
    7. Cheating Loras out of wanting to go after Gregor, Litlefinger’s talk to Sansa why she would send Loras and not Dondarion, Renly and Sandor not participating in tournament

  51. Paco
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    lol the more comments I read, the more things I realize I was unhappy with in the show. The good must have overshadowed the bad, thankfully… cuz a lot of this stuff I didnt remember and now Im all “oh yeah… I hated that too!!! W.T.F.?!”

    I completely forgot about how upset I was at Pod’s absence. Ser? My Lady? needs to be in this season!! I mean I guess I can understand why he didnt show up this season since Podrick [ACOK spoiler]is Tyrions squire and he didnt do much in the one battle he was in. Maybe Tyrion will get Podrick for the Blackwater? Hes the one that saves him! Thats one thing I hope they dont change! *crosses fingers*

  52. Maxwell James
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Assunta,

    A cold open is a scene that takes place before the opening credits, but after the “previously on” sequence. Battlestar Galactica and the Wire, among others, are shows that made excellent use of cold opens.

  53. Fire And Blood
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    The Dagger,

    That’s what this thread is all about. Put away thy knives, stalwart, and come claim a different life some other day! Respect.

  54. Blackfish Blues
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    Blackfish Blues,
    I meant “lack of Blackfish in S1″. See what happens when you post while drunk? Don’t try this at home.

  55. Maxwell James
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    DibuK,

    Littlefinger – ffs, tone him down! He’s so obviously manipulative, ambitious, cunning and faking, you would never know his true gift lays in making friends and intimating with people (especially women).

    I agree with this. Love Aiden Gillen as an actor, but the sleaziness of his part was overdone. I would have preferred if they had made him more of a banker type, as he was in the novel, which also would have added a certain current-events resonance…

  56. Jo
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    I agree wholeheartedly with six of the seven posted by Fire and Blood.

    However,

    I DID like the way they handled the battles – Whispering Wood and Tyrion “leading” the mountain men…
    I thought it very gracefully conveyed everything we needed to know about those two battles, and how what effect their outcomes had on the main characters.

    I guess if I have to have a seventh complaint, I’ll pick the weirwoods. They looked very…plastic. Like those autumn leaf garlands you can buy at Michael’s craft store around Halloween. I know it can’t exactly be easy to doctor up a fake tree, but if you are going to do a closeup shot of leaves, at least use real leaves – or a closer approximation of real leaves.

    but really, I don’t have much to gripe about. The first season was a damn good adaptation, in my opinion, and overall I think the plot changes that made the story more engaging on TV far outweighed the few that didn’t work.

  57. babylonrisen
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    You missed the worst change of all – Shae’s character! :D I’d rather Ros narrate the bloody show than have to endure HBO’s Shae any further tbh.

  58. dizzy_34
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    The Cersei, black haired baby change is the one that sticks in my crawl the most. Maybe because it was the first change in cannon we found out about but it’s also just not needed.

  59. Assunta
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    Ahhh. Thank you, and I totally agree with you.

  60. Fire And Blood
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    I liked the change in Shae’s character; the new scenes, her lines, all of it. It makes sense for Tyrion to reveal his obliterated marriage to a woman he’s attracted to while drinking heavily rather than to a sellsword whilst glumly sharing a fire.

    The actress I’m still on the fence on. I like the way some parts of Shae came off, dislike others. I want to see more though.

  61. Maxwell James
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    Really, I think “worst story changes” come in two categories:

    - Omissions, which have been endlessly discussed here & form the basis of most nitpicks
    - Alterations, which have been less discussed (save for Ros scenes) and I think are the more interesting category

    Omissions are usually a budget/schedule issue. But alterations are positive choices about how they tell the story. I liked many of those (including most of the added scenes & the changes to Cersei’s character) but a few (such as that weird Osha scene and the extra-transparent sleaziness of Littlefinger) struck me as regrettable.

  62. Dean
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    The show was better than I ever imagined “but” since we are allowed to nit-pick in these comments, here goes. Agree that the direwolves needed a bigger part but hopefully that will be remedied in season two. The relationship between the wolves and the Starks cannot be glossed over.

    No Blackfish and no Roose Bolton are curious decisions. I really think they could have sacrificed some of Ros’ screen time to get these guys in the story. I like how they used Ros to tell some of the back story but I think they may have went too far with it. In the context of season one she doesn’t play a significant role but like the post says maybe they have other plans for her.

    The Whispering Wood could have been set up better (a shot of Jaime being surprised by the Northerners, him cutting his way towards Robb) but I did get chills when Catelyn saw the riders coming towards her.

    One scene that I love from the book that I really got nothing out of on the show is when they find Rickon in the crypts. In the book talking about his father Rickon says, “You leave him. You leave him be. He’s coming home now, like he promised. He’s coming home.” For me that was so emotional and I thought the scene in the show was really lacking that element.

    Oh and one more thing. Leaving out Catelyn’s “It should have been you” line to Jon. That was another “oh damn” moment for me from the book that I thought would have been really powerful on the screen.

    I think like anything else the producers will look at what they did right and what they did wrong the first time and that knowledge will make season two even better.

  63. frog spear girl
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    well, i’m finally getting DWD this weekend as i’m just finishing up CROWS…so story-wise, in my humple op as a newby reader to GRRM and the GOT series, i think they did EXTREMELY well with S1. :-)

    in the books. the characters, locales, languages, and back stories, are so vast and rich, that for the books, the fat stays right on the mutton. i love that there’s an appendices to keep the sigils straight – MAPS to help guide you thru this GRRM multi-layered universe.

    so what they needed to omit or change in S1 made sense to me. they created some smart “narrative” devices, minor characters or mini scenes that could logically ask questions to major story players and yet they DIDN’T rely on gimmicky “flashbacks.”

    i did want MORE of certain characters, and LESS of others, and i missed the blackfish but overall, as a reader of the books, i wasn’t disappointed. i just wasn’t. it was all too fun to see my fav characters come to flesh! (except maybe um, LESS of lysa’s fleshy parts with um, mealtimes for sweetrobin. eeesshh! i was always chomping my popcorn when that dinner bell rang! UGH!)

    buttttttttttt…(what was that line that uncle benjin said to tyrion, about sentences starting with butttt…?)

    there’s one scene i would have LOVED to have in S1 – when sandor tells sansa- lemoncakes HIS story, to her, and their bond/relationship/understanding takes root.
    in the book, that chilled me and really impressed me with how GRRM could take an “all the damage on the surface” character like the hound, and show just how deep his layers are gonna go. the “wiping her bloody lip” was ok, but not NEARLY as powerful as that first exchange, after the turney.
    maybe when i’m all done reading DWD maybe i’ll think of something else about S1 that bugged me, but i really did like S1. :-)

  64. Adam Foerster
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    The saddest thing is that a lot of screen time was lost with Ros naked that could be used to a lot of cool stuff.
    Seriously, I think they forced so much sex scenes in just to make a statement “we are HBO”.
    The only audience it attracts is adolescents.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’m okay with sex scenes, but only when it has a meaning on the overall plot and it doesn’t need to be so graphic either.

  65. HandmaidenofDany
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Um, I liked everything except I want more sex.

  66. Knurk
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Wait, what? The Wire wasn’t perfect?

    For the rest I wholeheartedly agree with all your blessed 7 points!

  67. dizzy_34
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Oh and what happened to the Brandon Stark being strangled shot? Don’t tell us you used “everything”.

  68. HandmaidenofDany
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Adam Foerster,

    Guess everyone has their own view! LOL! :)

  69. Elena Amici
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Paco: lol the more comments I read, the more things I realize I was unhappy with in the show. The good must have overshadowed the bad, thankfully… cuz a lot of this stuff I didnt remember and now Im all “oh yeah… I hated that too!!! W.T.F.?!”

    oh yes.. i know what you’re talking about :D

    i started saying “i don’t have many reasons to complain…” and now i my list is much longer than i expected.

  70. saluk
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    I agree with the list in general winter. Seeing a battle would have been cooler but I think the compromise they took worked well. Also, I think using night to make something more dramatic is a crutch, and Ned vs Jaime would not have been any more epic at night. As it was, they had an audience and it really seemed more showy and brazen for the attack to happen during the day.

    My biggest peeves were too much sexposition (taken on their own each scene was OK, but having one in nearly episode became predictable), lack of wolves, and maybe a bit too quickly paced in parts where you didn’t get a full emotional impact because it was rushed through (butcher’s boy, pointy end being most obvious examples – hmm, both arya…).

    But as I try and come up with negatives to say I keep thinking of all the times I shouted at the screen or felt like they had gotten something so right, and I just don’t have the energy to complain.

    David Moore:
    I didn’t have any big problems with the points mentioned. Yes, they were all a bit annoying, but nothing to make me hate things.

    However, as the show goes along, I think that the show and books will continue to diverge until one has very little to do with the other. Basic concepts, names, etc. But the story lines will be unrecognizable.
    If HBO doesn’t play its cards right, I could see the series being virtually unwatchable by late season 3 or season 4.

    I don’t think this will happen, but all involved will have to work hard to actively prevent it from happening.

  71. Ollie
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    this is in no particulate order really
    1.Shae, I hate this version of her making that long scene with her Bron and Tryion a trial for me to watch.
    2.Lack of Wolves, as previously said just having them around would have being great I understand that their larger moments are hard to do but getting a dog/wolf to lie down in a seen or maybe a seen with one of them being fed whilst one of the stark kids talked about something just to show that the children looked after them and their bond was tight.
    3.whilst not the fan of Blackfish that Blackfish blues is I think putting him in the tree and have the possibility of adding him to the show there would have being good as he is pretty great in the books and I would like him in it.
    4.Ros, is she really needed
    5. San/San seen about Sandors scars given to Littlefinger, I think they missed out on a really important character moment there.
    6.lack of scale in the large scenes
    7. Whispering woods, flashes of the battle would have being nice with a few screams and the sounds of grey wind killing just to add to the climax of battle which after the lead up to 2 we say nothing. linked to this was the change of robs force swap where he send 2000 men to their death against tywin, I like the book version more where i think (dont quote me) it was 12000 of his force and the rest went to Whispering Woods so they had a good chance.
    Love the show so much though, April cant come soon enough
    ps come on casting info on Ygritte

  72. SG
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    I wish they hadn’t cut out almost all the dream sequences and flashbacks – especially Bran and Ned’s. TV only viewers are missing a lot of important information and may feel like certain developments come out of left field, especially if we learn much later on down the line that L + R = J.

  73. Rinso
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Here’s mine.

    1 – Sandor, as a whole. Other than the name and the helmet, he has virtually nothing in common with the Hound we know and love. Even his scars are tame and on the wrong side of the actor’s face (minor nitpick, I know, but they could have payed a bit more attention to the books – it makes no logistical or financial difference either way). But his demeanor is what is changed – or rather absent. No barely contained anger, no boiling misanthropy, no cynicism, no cruelty – then what’s left of the Hound? Nothing, nothing at all – just a sad, tame old man. The fact that his most important scene was cut and his story was given to Littlefinger to tell is a travesty to the character in a show that did justice to almost every other character and even made some of them better than in the book.

    2 – Renly being a wuss. Like Sandor, he has nothing in common with the character in the book. Renly is arrogant, attention-seeking, extremely handsome and charming, daring and vain. He doesn’t get sick at the sight of blood, he wouldn’t squeal “You cut me!!!!!” and he doesn’t need coercing from his boyfriend to have ambitions beyond his place. While I liked that the scene with Loras established early-on that there’s going to be fighting for the crown once Robert is dead, it felt wrong on the level that Renly came out like a spineless tool.

    3 – Ros. Seriously, why is that character even in the show? Nothing against Esme Bianco – in fact, I think that with a shorter hairstyle and dark dye, she would have made a better and more faithful Shae than the one we got, but Ros the character is completely pointless and got more screen time than characters like Sandor. Not that I mind watching her naked beauty, but I have porn for that purpose (and lots of it!) – in GoT, I want to see my favorite books adapted for TV, no more, no less. Ros, so far, has been a hindrance to that. Small hindrance, with nice t’n’a, but a hindrance nonetheless.

    4 – The Dothraki looking like shit. Honestly, I hate their look. I hate the armor of the Kingsguard too, but there it’s only aesthetical differences; with the Dothraki there is just no common sense. You have people from all kinds of ethnicities and races – from clearly black African to vaguely brownish Caucasian to pass as members of a cohesive people and a single tribe. It’s just sloppy. I hope they don’t do that in Season 2, and now after they have chosen a buff and manly black guy to play the pale and effeminate Xaro, they should at least make all Qartheen black.

    5 – No direwolves… and a single scene, specifically, when Robb killed the Wildlings by himself. For some reason, it felt like a cop out to me. Sure, they are animals and are hard to train. Sure, they were involved in scenes with children. Having an excuse is like having an ass, though – everybody got one. At this point they could have just cut the wolves altogether from the whole story (which, apparently, is going to happen to the Tullys :( ).

    6 – The prologue. It’s a mess. It didn’t build and portray the Others in a sure and unmistakeble way, it didn’t explain that when they kill you, you go back as a zombie, and overall was just a lot of blurry shots and shouting. The changes they made to it are for the worse. Listen to reviews of guys who have not read the books, like otakuassemble on YouTube – he actually has no idea what is happening in the Wall Subplot, he mixes up the Wildlings and the Others and the zombies, and it’s not because he didn’t pay attention or anything like that; it’s just not explained properly. Heck, even my father, who has read the books and remembers details like what’s going to happen to Jaime in ASOS, or a certain Wedding with a certain color, couldn’t recognize the Blackish-Brownish Walkers of the show as the Others from the book.

    7 – No dreams/flashbacks. I don’t know, perhaps they couldn’t find a way to make them work, but the lack of Bran’s prophetic dream, the lack of the Tower of Joy dream, even the lack of Dany dreaming being purged by a dragon’s fire were all important in the book, and I missed them. When I heard that they were making a flashback about Aerys murdering the Starks in KL… I was very happy. I kept waiting for it, especially in episodes 8 and 9 – and… it never came :( To be honest, that would have worked more elegantly than the constant infodumps they gave about it.

  74. metalgoddessamb
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    haha, honestly I beg to differ about Firefly. I absolutely think it was sheer perfection.

  75. Bill Wolfe
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Overall, I thought the show was well done and I’ve taken into considerations of budget and episodes and such. I’m looking forward to next season, and hopefully building up the fanbase enough so that we get to see season 3, 4, etc, etc. Those things noted…

    1) The rape scene, Dany/Drogo. This was a big disservice to both characters, and I think it took away from the impact of Drogo’s fate by the end of the season. There is plenty of immoral sex throughout the book, this was (written) as a touching scene in the midst of a rather uncomfortable situation otherwise. It better served to show (later) Dany’s affection for Drogo.

    2) Jon Snow, early. During the early feast, the book has Snow NOT sitting with the Starks as they host Robert. There, he is feeding Ghost beneath the table, gets drunk and THEN has that great scene with Tyrion. The feast is where Benjen and he talk about the Wall, and his drunkenness explains his angst in the Tyrion scene. I thought the scenes with him and Catelyn were too overwrought with strange hatred (truly – he’s been there ~18 years and she still hates him so much? Come on.) and I felt that in general, he was too angsty. Snow is sullen and brooding, the outsider – not angsty begging for attention – with a deep deep love for his brothers and sisters, and they for him, that after 18 years Catelyn would come to at least acknowledge.

    3) The Direwolves. As noted above. Explains things not otherwise explicable. Where’s Summer when Bran is in the woods alone – he went off to look for Summer, at least mention it. The stories told around the campfire after “Whispering Woods” would have been better if Rob’s wolf was seen during that scene. Alot of the respect afforded Snow comes from his relationship with Ghost – and alot of the fodder for his sulky, brooding time is him with his direwolf. Most importantly, it was Ghost’s approval of Sam that made Jon give the poor ole boy a chance and how they became fast friends.

    4) Tyrion getting knocked out before the battle. I understand the battle scene getting cut due to budget, but I think it’s a mistake to show Tyrion so incapable before the events of Season 2. The man is resourceful and willing to do whatever it takes. We could have seen that.

    5) Sandor/Sansa – I think I was more disappointed with the lack of Sandor overall, and how Sansa was notably a much brattier version in the stories (as mentioned above) – but I think this can be repaired in Season 2.

    6) Renly/Loras – The scene was no surprise, I just thought it would have been better placed later, after some tension, after Renly establishes himself more and uh other season 2 stuff. Now Brienne’s affection for the man will have less impact, for starters.

    7) I think one of the Ned/Varys scenes at the end of the season could have been replaced with a “Promise me…” dream sequence. It was those fever dreams that changed his mind, not Varys – Varys only closed the deal.

    Truly, this is nitpicking and the only reason (for me, at least) to mention these things is because there’s subtlety and symbolism and nuances that’s so rich in the story that television doesn’t HAVE to ignore – because there’s so many things that become mentioned, notable, relevant later. With all due respect and affection, reward the viewers for paying attention to details, give them reasons to watch episodes more than once – you don’t have to throw things in our face just so we get it.

    I repeat, for the record, that I loved the series, and will most certainly be buying it on DVD and supporting the production by tuning in next year.

  76. Spectre
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    HandmaidenofDany,
    I guess you will freak out on happiness when you discover you can just google these things ;)

    Seriously, Ros and all of the extra free sex scenes are just retarded. Game of Thrones is all serious and profound, then suddenly shouts “Oh look, lets be 13 years old again! Yay!”

  77. Spectre
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    HandmaidenofDany,

    I guess you will freak out on happiness when you discover you can just google these things ;)

    Seriously, Ros and all of the extra free sex scenes are just retarded. Game of Thrones is all serious and profound, then suddenly shouts “Oh look, lets be 13 years old again! Yay!”

  78. Hollyoak
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    Corn! Corn!

  79. Langkard
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    I too missed a meeting or something. What is slavegate?

    Worst changes?

    Too much sexposition to the point that by the time it came to Littlefinger and the gratuitous girl-on-girl sex with his dialogue, I sat there thinking that they’ve ruined any chance Aiden Gillen has of getting nominated for awards except for maybe Best Dialogue in a Porn.

    Removing Sandor/Sansa and giving the dialogue to Littlefinger lessened the viability of having Sandor and Sansa interactions in Season 2. Those interactions are important to both character’s development.

    Tyrion getting knocked out before the Battle of the Green Fork did damage to the idea that Tyrion gains the mountain clans’ grudging respect by fighting with them. Now they have to find some way to explain their interactions in Season 2. Why would the Shagga and the others follow Tyrion to King’s Landing?

    Shae. I am on the fence about this change. I can see reasons why it was done. Gives more dramatic force to things when Tyrion strangles her; but the personality is a bit grating, though interesting. I guess we’ll see.

    Various really small things. Dogs. No raven screaming Corn!” through the first season and then “Snow!” later. No Blackfish. If Marillion isn’t around, then who gets the blame for Lysa going out the Moon Door? Mostly little things, really.

    My biggest worry now is Season 2. Something David said in the ComicCon panel really started to eat at me after thinking about it. When he said something along the lines of “I just want to get to the RW, then I can retire” or similar. They way he said it made me start thinking that he intends the RW to be the end of the show. And with the conflation of books 2 and 3 into Season 2, I’m worried that writer/director burnout has set in and they may be planning to end it at two seasons. It’s just a worry, but a big one after watching the panel a couple times. I hope I am completely wrong and that I’m just being paranoid.

  80. Elena Amici
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    Bill Wolfe:
    1) The rape scene, Dany/Drogo. This was a big disservice to both characters, and I think it took away from the impact of Drogo’s fate by the end of the season. ….It better served to show (later) Dany’s affection for Drogo.

    2) Jon Snow, early. During the early feast, the book has Snow NOT sitting with the Starks as they host Robert. There, he is feeding Ghost beneath the table, gets drunk and THEN has that great scene with Tyrion. I thought the scenes with him and Catelyn were too overwrought with strange hatred (truly – he’s been there ~18 years and she still hates him so much? Come on.)

    2) She didn’t like him when he was 15, she doesn’t like him when he’s 17. It does make sense. I missed the feast part too

    1) Oh, i liked it. I mean, i didn’t like dany being raped, but THIS is what happened, in the books and in the show. Dany’s “yes” in the book is just her way to show that she want her life to change, it doesn’t mean that her wedding night and her “first ride” was something she enjoyed, expecially if you compare dany’s first time in the books to her following chapter, in which is clearly stated that drogo doesn’t even care about his new wife’s (sexual) happiness (at the beginning). Heck, she even thinks to kill herself.
    All i mean to say is this: i’ve always seen dany and drogo as a really weird couple. I think her affection to him (she believes it’s love, but it’s just because she’s never being loved in her life… it’s like SPOILER ASOS her attraction to daario later) is just her way to state her indipendence – from viserys and her past life.
    IMHO, dany is one of the best example of Stockholm syndrome in fiction, and i’m glad D&D showed it.

  81. HandmaidenofDany
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    Spectre,

    Yeah, but porn plots are less than satisfying…LOL!

  82. Jericho
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Can be forgiven not to see the battle in which the vanguard commanded Tyrion but needed to be left he on the floor like a total useless? That was bad.

    About the Blackfish, i hope they have changed only “the when” it appears within the story.

  83. Epic knows nothing
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    1. Tyrion. He was a bit miscast no?
    2. People without wigs or hair dye. Natural complexion? Really??!
    3. Ned gets his head chopped off. Everyone and their mom knew it was going to happen (not so much the ridiculous foreshadowing, no. It’s called the internet) but still we all had to pretend it was a surprise and then make a show of it. Was like the worst fake orgasm orgy evah.
    4. Episodes 8-10… Whoa, hold your horses. Since when do things HAPPEN in GoT? Can we just get back to the talking about things happening? Yeah, I was just starting to get used to that and now you flip the tables on me.
    5. “Drogo goes apeshit and spits out incoherently how he and 40k people are going to get on wooden horses to take over a civilized country while about 6 people around a fire cheer him on by banging on cups” … was like, dude, have you ever planned anything more than 5 minutes ahead before… cause that was a bit on the impulsive.
    6. GRRM’s first cameo (Arya’s first kill scene). CGI does wonders do your skin.
    7. The very first opening scene. Sure it was full of promise hopes and dreams while thousands of fans watched it for the first time, but where was Jamie Campbell Bower??! I was promised Jamie Campbell Bower!!! @%(!

  84. KG
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Absolutely none of those changes merited a single damn from me.

    “Book” is not “TV show.” Say the words, understand the words, enjoy life more.

  85. Elena Amici
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    Langkard: I too missed a meeting or something. What is slavegate?

    lol, some comments on another post :)

    Langkard: If Marillion isn’t around, then who gets the blame for Lysa going out the Moon Door?

    LF will find a way ;)

  86. Clob
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    I absolutely loved the first season so I really can’t say anything was “worst.” Although, saying worst doesn’t necessarily mean bad, as the worst of a number of great things may still be good. Looking at it in this manner I can say that as far as changes are concerned there were a few things that were slightly disappointing, yet they didn’t hurt my positive attidude of the show at all. Most of those were scenes left out and/or lessened in scope – scenes that have been mentioned numerous times like the attack of Bran in the Wolfswood for example. I accept the reasoning however.

    To be honest here, every time I’ve rewatched the episodes there have been two scenes I always skip. I guess that means I don’t like them huh.
    One is the Renly-Loras one-pit shaving scene. Say what you will, the book doesn’t have an open, described sexual scene between the two and forcing it onto the screen in a scene of that length didn’t fit for me. Since they’re both essentially minor characters something less would have sufficed.
    The other for me is the infamous scene of Littlefinger and the whores. I apologize to Aiden but his portrayal of Baelish is my least favorite part of the show (remembering that worst doesn’t need to mean bad – necessarily). That particular scene however was indeed bad imo, exacerbated by listening to Baelish the entire time.

  87. Claidheamh
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    I really feel they should’ve shown the path to the Eyrie, with all its stages. Show why she’s so impregnable. The way Bronn talked about it really diminished the awesomeness of the coolest castle in the series. :P

  88. Tropxe
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    Well I watched season one before getting started on the books, so I’m seeing this more from the point of view of someone thinking “So that’s what really happened?” while reading the book rather than thinking “Where is X thing or character?” when watching the show.

    So with that in mind, locations seem a lot more complex and real in the books. The lack of population in King’s Landing didn’t really bother me – it didn’t even occur to me until it was just mentioned – but the whole scene of how Catelyn ascended the mountain to the Aerie was incredibly atmospheric and potent in the book whereas in the TV show, she may as well have been visiting her sister’s bungalow. The lack of the Blackfish and Mya also really detracted from the whole piece since it seriously simplifies the feel of the place, the politics of it.

    Also, unless I seriously misunderstood what was going on back when I saw it on TV, the whole “Robb goes to war” part was handled very oddly. It wasn’t the Whispering Wood part that bothered me, it was how the idea of Riverrun being harassed by Jaime and of how Robb and his army arrive to save them, going into Riverrun as heroes, was totally absent, or at best hinted at a few times. I got that Jaime was off in one place and Tywin was elsewhere, and the whole trick that Robb pulled off to get Jaime, but it was breezed through in a rather casual way with no real feel of two various hosts squaring off against each other – it felt more like a few gangs scrapping in the countryside. The “King in the North!” part in the book happens in a hall in Riverrun, in the TV show it happens in a field.

  89. Mickey
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    Personally…
    1) Catelyn being the one to first say “you can refuse” – her feelings of guilt later in the series can never be used now. she was the one that convinced Ned he HAD to go…
    2) Brans dreams. Nobody watching has any idea what the 3eyed crow is – if they even noticed it. Those dreams have a decent amount of setup that is now missing.
    3) Total lack of wolfishness.
    4) and this is a big one for me – Cersei talking about having had a child with black hair that died. so much for the later argument “if you had had even one child by robert…”. that should never have been added.
    5) Tyrions lack of fighting – that’s important to his character in my eyes, and him getting knocked out before his biggest battle was pathetic (in my opinion, obviously).
    6) The complete change of sandors personality, the lack of san/san interactions, especially escorting her back after the tourney and giving the story to littlefinger. sandor telling the story and threatening sansa is i think a core part of the definition of his personality, and now that’s lost. the changes in him will not even be noticed now, sadly…
    7) the changes to sansas personality. she came across as an obnoxious whiney little bitch, which is almost completely opposite of how she is portrayed in the books. This includes dropping her going to cersei about ned sending them home…

    even with these things, i loved the show. but those would have made it much better, imho…

  90. Marilyn Bones
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    I agree with almost everyone’s statements ( no direwolves, Sansa/Sandor, Blackfish, flashbacks, etc.) … my peeve was that lack of Bran’s story and the three eye crow. Felt Bran’s story could have been explored a little bit more indepth.

  91. Aule
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    1. Ros. Every scene with her was bad (not the fault of the actress though), but the scene with Petyr Little Finger was just the worst. Lots of valuable screen seconds wasted away, imo.

    2. The Hand’s Tourney. It just lacked all the magnificence it should have had. They just used it as a way to show a couple of plot points, when it was more of cultural exposition in the book, which, imo, is far more interesting.

    3. Jon looks kind of gay. I never noticed indications of Jon being gay in the books, specially considering Ygrit and all that, but in the show he has a somewhat gayish attitude. They even talk about his hair in one scene, and he is always well groomed and too shy.

    4. We know it was Jaime pushing Bran out the window since episode 1. This is one of the main plot points in the first book. The suspense of this story is completely lost and the blaming of Tyrion for it just makes no sense at all making Cat look somewhat stupid.

    5. Osha does not act like a wildling. I like the actress, she’s excellent, but her lines are all wrong. Her mind-set is not wildling at all. It takes away the excitement of all the magic beyond-the-wall, making it seem unreal.

    6. Arya and Bran are “cute and adorable”. They seem to be the kind of children you see on TV series, not very realistic. Too cute and innocent to be true. The actors are amazing though, and this should be changed in their lines. Perhaps more so with Bran than with Arya.

    7. No background story scenes. This is perhaps something only fans would care about, but they casted the mad-king, so why not throw in a couple of his scenes in there? And maybe the Tower of Joy? It would have been pretty cool, imo.

  92. SHiRO
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    Just because it hasn’t been mentioned (has anyone noticed?)

    /major nitpick mode on

    Book: “King Robert Baratheon, first of his name, King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, Protector of the Realm”

    TV show: “King Robert Baratheon, first of his name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, Protector of the Realm”

    /major nitpick mode off

    Still, why the omission? It’s more unnecessary dumbing down. Does it really matter if it flies over the heads of most of the audience? It’s not as if it’s going to confuse them. It’s heard as one title regardless of lenght and content and most people are not going to analyse what’s actually said, right?

  93. Alex Antonijevic
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    The San/San thing is an interesting point. I was wondering why he’s listed in the opening credits as a main cast member when I could count the number of lines he’s had on one hand. He seems really underused… you see him ride down Mycah, then a quick fight with Gregor at the tourney… and then he stops Sansa from pushing Joffrey in the finale. They even gave his burning story to Littlefinger… why?

  94. Magus
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    While I donot have a list of things I dislike, and there are things I dislike, I will go on with the others and say I absolutely detest the lesbian little finger exposition scene. I still shake my head at the thought of that scene. There is not much else to say about it. Its a very stupid scene.

  95. Aaron
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    I was initially pretty bummed about the Littlefinger/Sansa conversation about the Hound and the Mountain, too. But I think that their reasoning for changing the storytelling from Sandor to Littlefinger was to start building the LF/Sansa relationship that develops throughout ASOS.

  96. Steve
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    How can you make this list and not include The Tower of Joy, which was easily the best chapter in the first book?

    Anyways…

    In the show, we have a large Northern force descending upon the smaller Lannister force and the audience barely has time to even process what this means before Robb emerges from the woods victorious.

    This isn’t true. In the show, it was clear that Jaime had 30,000 troops and Robb had 18,000. So it was a smaller northern force descending on a larger Lannister force.

    The show could have done a better job illustrating how any force beseigning Riverrun would have to split its forces into three camps, which negated most of their numerical advantage. Making Tywin look dumb in this scene was actually correct, because it was his blunder that let Robb sneak by and surprise Jaime. Tywin fell for Robb’s ruse, which is why Robb was the best general in the book.

  97. Aaron
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    Aule:
    Jon looks kind of gay.

    Not sure what you mean by that.

  98. Elise
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    Great topic! I too was disappointed with the lack of wolves. Seems it would’ve been fairly easy to insert some scenes, even with them doing nothing. And, I agree with Winter Rose that they should’ve showed Sansa’s dreamy side. I hadn’t read the book at the start of the series but when I finished the first one, I was disappointed that Sansa was so bitchy and “teenager with an attitude” in the series, yet in the book she was dreamy and naive, and clueless. And, I hated that Littlefinger took over relaying Sandor’s background when it should’ve come from Sandor. And, since Sandor continues on further in the books interacting with other Stark characters, I wish they hadn’t changed that. And Ros didn’t bother me, but her sexual scenes with the other girl while Littlefinger droned on was ghastly. I hated that scene…it was almost perverse.

  99. Dreamlife
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    I agree with your list, FAB, but I understand budgetary constraints and don’t feel like most of the ones you mentioned really had that big of an impact on my feelings about the season.

    Here’s my list of “irritations”—story changes that actually did make me a little mad.

    1. Ros. She wasn’t in the books, which makes this a legit story change. Look, it was fine when she hopped into bed with Tyrion in the first episode. But is there really only one whore for the highborn of Winterfell? No offense to the actress, but I really don’t want to see her in season 2…

    2. Littlefinger. I hate everything about the TV version of LF. LF from the books was cocky, flamboyant, and sarcastic and had what I call “short man syndrome”. As great and charismatic as Aiden Gillen was in The Wire, as Peter Baelish he is completely dull…like he’s just reading his lines. Don’t even get me started on his scene with Ros… While I like the actor playing Varys, I did not like the scenes between LF and Varys. Also not a fan of LF stealing Sandor Clegane’s big moment where he reveals his past to Sansa.

    3. Drogo raping Dany on their wedding night. I don’t get the explanation that it would be confusing to the viewer if they have consensual sex. In the book you are introduced to this huge, barbaric man who you expect to brutally rape this young girl—and are surprised when he takes his time and lets her be the one to decide when she’s ready. It was beautiful in the book, horrible on screen.

    4. The way Cersei has been written. I recall her being much more cunning and evil in the books. In the TV series she’s incredibly inconsistent. She’s psycho when she first meets Sansa “hello, dear, have you bled yet?”, “vulnerable” when she’s sitting with Catelyn at Bran’s bedside, and awkward around Jaime (you don’t really get the sense that they’re in love, which was conveyed very well in book 1). She’s a horrible liar (the story she makes up about Arya beating Joffrey with a club?!) and just does not seem particularly threatening. She’ll need to have a more commanding presence as the series progresses.

    That’s all.

  100. Pastor_of_Muppets`
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    My biggest complaint is that I had to sit down and watch Game of Thrones, as opposed to sitting down and reading the novel, where I could imagine all of the things that are not possible/incredibly difficult/too expensive to translate to the screen to my hearts content within my own head. Other than that, damn fine adaptation.

    * end sarcasm *

  101. Elena Amici
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    Aule: Arya and Bran are “cute and adorable”. Book-Arya is supposed to be an ugly and defiant girl very few people can stand (maybe just Jon and Edard). Books-Bran is just a boy dreaming of becoming a knight, an average boy for the story-setting. TV-Bran is the kind of boy you see on TV series, not very realistic. Too cute and innocent to be true, same as Arya.

    I don’t think arya is supposed to be ugly, Is ARYA herself who doesn’t think to be pretty She looks like lyanna who was “a wild beauty” (quoting). Not a classical beauty the way sansa or cersei are, but definitively pretty.
    Bran, on the other hand, is supposed to be a cute boy. He took after catelyn, after all

    Aule: 3. Jon has a somewhat gayish attitude. They even talk about his hair in one scene, and he is always well groomed and too shy.

    Okay, you made me giggle. A lot.
    Anyway, imo, book-jon IS shy. A lot (i’m talking about the first book and 1/2). He just doesn’t like to admit it to himself so he covers it with the emo!angst. But, imo, AGOT-jon is one of the shyest ASOIAF characters, with the exception of brienne and pre-AGOT dany.

    Anyway, that bit about show!jon’s hair is IMO either a prank or a way to tell us that D&D DO read WiC. Do you remember all the fuss on the boards last year? The jon’s-hair-gate? LOL

  102. Adrian
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Casting a fat ginger as Mycah was a bad idea…he died in the same episode as Lady, and people were more upset at the death of the cute dog. Because no one cares about fat gingers.

    Though I did love and laugh at the constant mentions thereafter to “the butcher’s buoy.”

  103. Bolton's Bastard
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Woah Woah Woah….back the F@&% up…..what do you mean “The Wire” wasn’t perfect. How dare you!!!! Dont make me send my 12 y/o assassin girl after you.

  104. purplejilly
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    you know, it’s interesting – reading this now, I realize I have already nerd-raged most of my anger away, and while I find myself nodding and agreeing with FaB’s post and the comments, I no longer have the fierce explosion of anger that would rip through me on twitter Sunday night, and on the recap posts. It’s good to work through your anger and let go of these things :)

    My biggest seven complaints about story changes from the book :
    1. Direwolves, and the epic fail at the lack of them. There’s not too much magic in S.1, but a main component of the magic that IS there, is the magical, spiritual connection of the Stark children to their wolves.
    The fact that a human has a wolf for a pet, and every single one of the wolves bonds with the child who chose them, was a magical thing. They weren’t just ‘pets’, like a dog, they were a magical gift to the Starks from their old gods, and this is what makes it all the more horrific that Ned has to kill Lady, and sad that Arya has to chase off Nymeria. Poor Rickon, deprived of his parents at Winterfell, with his older brother Robb not able to help him, finds a mother and a father and a family in Shaggydog. I mean, in normal circumstances, would you let a six year old run around with a pet wolf unsupervised most of the time? Yet due to the lack of them in the scenes, that really isn’t brought across to the viewer, and I’d bet non-readers just think of them as fancy pets.
    I’ve resigned myself to why this happened, the dogs they got were not easily trained, and by the time they figured out they weren’t working, it was too late in the production schedule to make them CGI. So I have forgiven this, as long as they employ more cgi for the future seasons, and get the remaining wolves in there as much as they should be!
    gotta run, but will post my other six later tonight!

  105. andrea
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    Arya´s first kill… I wonder if we can consider a change…
    For the rest I agree with some points of several different people:
    1. Great quotes from the books were lost
    2. lack of wolves and connection with the Stark kids
    3. Lack of Blackfish (altough maybe I´ll understand… but not for now. Too much Ross and no Blackfish???)
    4. Ross (awful brothel scene, useless Pycelle scene and so on)
    5. Cersei changes: her madness seems too reasonable sometimes…? Maybe is just the actress or maybe D&D gave her too many excuses for being who she is or what she becomes… I don´t know, Cersei TV has something I don´t like

  106. Damryn of Dorne
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    1) Direwolves barking
    2) Manscaping
    3) Sexposition
    4) Scale (battles/hunts/tournies)
    5) Sandor the grim Lamppost
    6) Cersei’s Icecream Wig
    7) Stableboy, future oscar winner

  107. shadallion
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    Overall, I feel like the book “A Game of Thrones” is one of the most tightly written novels ever, and certainly the most tightly written of the series. Any little change is really glaring, and frankly unwanted and UNNECESSARY.

    Examples:

    How did it help the show to have a pansy Renly?
    How does it help to have Littlefinger tell the Hound’s story?
    How does it help to skip “Promise me, Ned?” or the Tower of Joy?
    How does it help to minimize the direwolves?
    How does it help to have Cersei love Robert at first?
    How does it help to have the fight between Jorah and Rahkaro occur in broad daylight?

    Answer: it doesn’t. Whatever the reasons, they are not big enough to merit the changes to the canon of the novel.

    From “A Clash of Kings” onward, the story gets a lot bigger and I think it’s not quite as “tight”, meaning it starts to sprawl out and things do not build on one another so completely.

    This will give the showrunners a lot more room to make some creative changes without rocking the fans’ ship so much.

    I really think that ANY deviation from Book 1 was a an error that did not help the story. From here on out, they can play around a bit.

  108. shadallion
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    “6) Cersei’s Icecream Wig”

    LOL!

  109. the blind girl
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    I completely agree with the Ros scenes…Liked the Theon one because it’s sort of forshadowing the evil Theon we see in Clash of Kings, but the lesbian one was so distracting I hardly even heard what LF said…I was like “Why the hell was that necessary?”

    AND MORE HOUND PLEASE. I love the scenes between him and Sansa, they better not cut them from the second season! Especially the kiss, that was such and emotional part of the story for me.

  110. Mirax
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    1. Cersie’s black-haired beauty – It didn’t make sense then, it doesn’t make sense now.

    2. Shae – It’s not that she’s foreign, it’s that she is played with a very cold personality. Some say it makes it more believable when Tyrion falls for her. I always found Tyrion’s attraction to Shae to be due to the fact that she acted as happy and politically naive as Tysha. Instead of a young, happy, ever-pleasing whore who gets too greedy, we have a bored, cold whore that I could definitely believe is manipulating Tyrion.

    3. Sansa’s personality change.

    4. Ros – She was great in her scene with Tyrion. I didn’t even mind her first scene with Theon. But why did Jon need to mention her as well? Are we really supposed to believe that Theon has only slept with one woman ever? This actually brings us to….

    5. Scope – As said by many above, where were the people? Where were all of the royal retainers, knights, and freeriders that tag along with any procession? Where were the crowds at Dany’s wedding and the tourney? Where were all of the travel scenes? Give us a few more quick campfire shots, or more memorable dialogue about how many more weeks of travel they have!

    6. Lack of Direwolves

    7. Littlefinger as Mr. Indiscreet – Does it really make sense, in the middle of court, to lean over and ask you if you recall that a fish is the symbol of your wife’s house? Really? Or yell out a gay joke to a member of the royal family during the world’s smallest tourney? How about the time he told everything to a bunch of whores or spilled a dangerous man’s secrets to a young girl in the middle of the SAME small tourney? REALLY?

  111. Franny Bee
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    I think the change in Sansa’s character was bad. I wanted her to be the (naive) idealist of the books, as opposed to the bitchy teen. Would have made her story more poignant.

  112. WARZ
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    After a cursory glance at the comments 2 this post (by christ, there was a lot of ‘em), I decided that my booze addled mind couldn’t contemplate each and every pertinant point that a lot was brought up.

    I will say this though…. I got into GoT thru the TV series.
    At 1st glance I thought it was a sub-par D&D rip off. But when I actually took the time 2 watch the series I was HOOKED!!! So much so, that I sought out the audio book versions of all the the series.
    The shortcomings are glaringly obvious, most of which I put down to budgetry constraints, but for me personally they don’t detract from the sense of granduer and depth that attracted me in the first place.

    Acolytes of the books already knew in advance that Ned was gonna get his noggin lopped off, and when I first veiwed the episode in question I almost abandoned the entire series, such was the power of Sean Bean’s performance.
    But I slugged it out and then sought the remainder of a truely epic tale.

    The TV adaptation is not a patch on the books in scale, but by the old gods and the new, it is leagues better than most shit on TV these days.

    WINTER IS COMING…. and it is more eagerly awaited than the current dirge of docu-soaps and reality TV crap that is constantly force fed the masses.

  113. Weathervane
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    Hopefully they’ll give the Hound more character in Season 2, and are really saving the Sandor/Sansa stuff for then. He’s one of the most interesting characters in the story as far as I’m concerned.

  114. Handmaidenof Dany
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    WARZ,

    Here Here!!!

  115. Lex
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    I was gonna try to avoid this thread (can’t stand nitpicking) but what the heck…

    1. Lack of direwolves – my biggest complaint. No Summer attacking wildlings in the forest, no Ghost savaging the wight, no Grey Wind fighting in the Whispering Wood. Whenever they WERE included, I loved it (I thought they dogs did a good job). But even just a few more shots would have been awesome.

    2. Not enough Hound (even his fight with Gregor was too short).

    3. Not enough jousting at the tourney – I would have LOVED a couple quick shots of Jaime, Sandor, or Renly in full armour. The way they showed it made it seem like the entire tourney was Gregor fighting two rounds.

    4. LF’s “play with her ass” scene. Seems pretty unanimous that everyone hated that scene. I never knew a lesbian sex scene could be so unenjoyable. Total failure of a scene.

    That’s pretty much all I can complain about, which isn’t too bad. But I’m already annoyed by the Yara name change for Season 2. Grrrr…

    EDIT: This made me LOL “Seriously, a friend of mine thought Ghost snarling at Rast was a metaphor.” You know you’ve failed to introduce the direwolves properly when viewers think they’re a HALLUCINATION! LOL!

  116. Aule
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    Aaron,

    Well, gay is not the right word. I just did not know how to describe this general feeling I’m getting from TV-Jon, which is different from what I get from Book-Jon. What seems odd is that he’s always so well groomed no matter what. Like an old hero movie. This seems particularly odd in a medieval setting. I would expect people to be generally dirty and having little care for their personal appearance other than to show off their status and riches.

    He also shows very little if no interest at all in women, while his mates Robb and Theon do, or at least I got that impression. Then there’s his extreme shyness, which is overdone in the TV series, imo. And finally, his relationship with Sam looks sometimes a little bit beyond the friendship mark, because of the way they look and smile at each other.

  117. andrea
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    Dreamlife: While I like the actor playing Varys, I did not like the scenes between LF and Varys.

    what a relief! thought I was the only one who did not like these scenes. Dreadful dialogues… trying to sound intriguing and resulting so pretentious…

  118. Aule
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    Elena Amici,

    About Bran and Arya I guess what I wanted to describe was a general feeling they cast on me. Not necessarily from their looks, but it is part of it. But generally they seem like cute little kids, which does not come accross to me so much in the books, and which considering how they are older in the TV-series than in the books is even harder to accept that they would be so naive and charming.

    About Jon, I just think his shyness is overdone. He is shy, yes, but not THAT much. And for his hair, I think it might have been a way for marketing him among young girls and attract more viewers, hahaha. It could also be what you say though. But anyway, it looks out of place, imo.

    Overall, I think it cannot be overstated how much I loved the show and I am deeply thankful for HBO making this series! These are just things that could have made the show a 99 to 1, instead of a 98 to 2 as FaB said. No big deal here ;)

  119. Jean-Ralphio
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    As I can’t stand Sansa in the first two books, and don’t really care for the San-San relationship, so I didn’t really mind that.
    Also I’m all for more Littlefinger/Aiden Gillen screen time, he’s awesome.

    I agree some sexpositions are a bit taky and overused but they didn’t bother me either (that’s typical HBO stuff) and Littlefinger’s monologue was brilliant, even if distracted by the moaning noises.

    Lack of battles and crowds are a downer, but understable because of budget reasons.
    As with the direwolf it’s a bit disapointing ,but they’re not THAT huge in book one, and since they’ll be CGI in season 2 we won’t have the same issue.

    The change of Jaime/Ned’s fight was a mixed feeling, the scene was very cool (Eyestabbing!), but I did mind the change, Jaime seems a lot more righteous in the show thanks to that scene, than he is in the book, since he doesn’t do much fighting here, letting his men kill Jory. But I guess they need to make him more sympathetic early since we won’t have his inner thougths come season 3 (2?) to make us understand and sympathisize with him better.
    And yeah, book-Ned would have been slashed in two by book-Jaime.

    My biggest issue in the end is the omission of some characters, don’t really mind about Mya Stone, but no Blackfish sucks, he’s basically Robb’s right hand man once Theon leaves for Pyke, so it’s really bad, no Riverrun at all is bad too, but I guess this one was a budget issue.
    Would have liked a more faithful path to the Eerie too, it was a pretty striking chapter in the book, and there it’s just stripped down to a large shot and Bronn’s joke.
    Also kind of weird that we don’t clearly picture any of Robb’s bannermen besides the Greatjon (sure he’s the more awesome but still), and early look at Bolton would have been nice, and are Manderly and Karstark even in the show at this point?

    Kind of the same problem with Dany’s bloodriders, they’re supposed to be three, but seems that Jhogo and Rakharo are mixed in just one and we never quite see the other too. I mean, they did give her three handmaidens (when Irri and Jhiqui are pretty useless, since Doreah both teaches her to please Drogo and to talk Dothraki), they could have give her the three bloodriders!

  120. Knurk
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    andrea: what a relief! thought I was the only one who did not like these scenes. Dreadful dialogues… trying to sound intriguing and resulting so pretentious…

    hah, guess we can disagree about something. I loved their dialogues, could watch entire episodes with Littlefinger and Varys jousting words, great stuff.
    But back to agreeing with you (and actually totally forgot about this when reading this post): the stableboy killing ruined a perfect episode for me, they treated it like an afterthought. Could have been an epic scene like many others, but just fell flat. Interested to see the dvd/blu-ray commentaries on that scene.

  121. FicusFan
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    Loved the show and the books. Don’t think there were that many differences, and what there was enhanced the show.

    There were almost no wolves in the books too.
    Dany/Drogo WAS rape in the book too
    Liked Cersei in the show – more human.
    Liked Sansa in the show – less of a door mat
    Liked Ros and how Shae was portrayed.
    Don’t care about changes/omissions to minor characters.

    Very few complaints:

    Have old fashioned tube TV – many scenes too dark to see clearly inside (KL, Winterfell) and outside at night. Have brightness set all the way up. Can see better on LCD laptop screen with HBOGO replays.

    Bran’s dumb dream scene over & over – doesn’t explain anything, can’t see 3rd eye – what does it mean anyway (if you haven’tread the books).

    Dothraki horde traveling over the countryside in an orderly line ???

    Valeryion steel not being black (Ice).

    Why so many Lannister banners when king rides into Winterfell ? Stag almost non-existent. Ned didn’t have Tully banners flying. Lannister men would be part of King’s cohort.

    Opening scene Night’s Watch in the woods:
    Wildings, wights, white walkers – north side of wall. Deserter runs south. How did he get there? He said before execution – he should have gone back to the wall to warn his brethren. He would have to go through the wall to get south ???

  122. Louisa
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    1. Ros
    2. Ros
    3. Ros
    4. Ros
    5. Ros
    6. Ros

    and last but not the least…
    7. Ros

  123. Knurk
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    Jean-Ralphio,

    how awesome is this, I do not only agree 100% with your post (another Blackfish supporter), but you also have the most awesome username on this board (maybe besides Belwas’ Stool). I salute you!

    Edit: besides, can we get a Blackfish scent in next season of P&R?

  124. saluk
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    Mickey:
    Personally…
    1) Catelyn being the one to first say “you can refuse” – her feelings of guilt later in the series can never be used now.she was the one that convinced Ned he HAD to go…
    2) Brans dreams.Nobody watching has any idea what the 3eyed crow is – if they even noticed it.Those dreams have a decent amount of setup that is now missing.
    4) and this is a big one for me – Cersei talking about having had a child with black hair that died.so much for the later argument “if you had had even one child by robert…”.that should never have been added.

    Some of these are a bit off the mark (just a bit)
    1. Catelyn’s misaprehension of Tyrion didn’t help any. She still has plenty of room for guilt
    2. Non readers around me are going on about Bran being psychic and the weird 3 eyed crow. I wish Bran had been given a bit more screentime, but it did it’s job. I think, as we nitpick, we should consider how the changes hurt our own impression of the show, from our own experience, rather than assuming that things worked or didn’t for non-readers.
    4. Cersei was lying, and they made this clear later on (episode 7 I believe?) It may have been an awkward misplaced scene, but its not a significant story change.

    Aule:
    3. Jon looks kind of gay. I never noticed indications of Jon being gay in the books, specially considering Ygrit and all that, but in the show he has a somewhat gayish attitude. They even talk about his hair in one scene, and he is always well groomed and too shy.

    4. We know it was Jaime pushing Bran out the window since episode 1. This is one of the main plot points in the first book. The suspense of this story is completely lost and the blaming of Tyrion for it just makes no sense at all making Cat look somewhat stupid.

    I have some issues with these as well :)

    3. Uh, being well groomed and shy does not make someone gay. I’ve never heard this before. Renly in the show is more stereotypically gay in the show – effeminate and squeamish. Which was extremely annoying, because its cooler to ditch stereotypes. Jon was a bit too emo and brooding, but that really is his character.

    4. It might have been cooler to be kept guessing about who pushed bran, but I liked how the actor playing Jaime did with this scene, so I think it was fine. And the blame pointed to Tyrion was from the dagger not the push. To viewers, it appears that since Tyrion and Jaime are pretty close, that Tyrion helped to organize a coverup for his brother.

    That said, Cat IS somewhat stupid. People do tend to get so when they are faced with great hardships, but still. Few of her decisions make any logical sense.

  125. Louisa
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    I don’t get this Tower of Joy lovefest. It’s not really important in the grand scheme of things…

    I was more disappointed when they decided to use Littlefinger to retell The Hound’s background to Sansa instead of The Hound himself. Then again it’s not really important and just plain nitpicking.

  126. Bro
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    1. Ros. The only scene I felt was grand was the introduction of Tyrion. The rest was unnecessary. And don’t even get me started on the sex skills scene. So not cool D&D.
    2. Shae. Do not like tv-Shae at all. She’s the complete opposite to book-Shae.
    3. Hitting us round the head over and over that Loras and Renly are an item. The way the books dealt with that relationship was far superior, nice and subtle.
    4. The way the direwolves were used sparingly. I understand they were difficult to work with but even it they’d been stuck in a background shot, I’d have been happy. One scene I REALLY missed them was the one in the weirwood forest where Bran is attacked by the wildlings.
    5. Sansa being bitchy and rude in the series as opposed to being polite in the books. Totally contradicts her policy of manners are a ladies armour, or something along those lines.
    6. The tourney. I wish it had been on a bigger scale. Wasn’t Jaime supposed to be unhorsed during it?
    7. Not having Jeor Mormont’s raven. I missed that guy. All he would have had to do was sit round on James Cosmos’ shoulder in a few shots. Not even all the time. Maybe James is allergic to ravens?!
    I have one more but it’s more of a nitpick: I wish they hadn’t changed Pyp’s story about why he was sent to the Wall. I understand why they did it but I love everything that happens at the Wall so the closer the storyline is to the books, the happier in my nappier I’ll be!

  127. WARZ
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    Jean-Ralphio: And yeah, book-Ned would have been slashed in two by book-Jaime.

    Nah, I personally don’t think so. Ned Stark was obviously an able combatent, as was King Robert, Jaime Lannister just got more “screen time” in the books as far as the timelines allowed. It would have been like Errol Flynn Vs. John Wayne, if that makes sense???

  128. andrea
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    Knurk: hah, guess we can disagree about something. I loved their dialogues, could watch entire episodes with Littlefinger and Varys jousting words, great stuff.

    Oh no! really? you Loooooooved it? I do love Varys and LF scares me every time I see him (tremendous fear I mean) but their dialogues seemed so weak to me being these characters so strong. Well then, we can disagree.

    Knurk: Could have been an epic scene l

    About that beautiful episode… I regretted so much the lack of importance given to Arya in that scene… poor girl, it was so dramatic for her (for whom it would not). Could have been epic… you´re so right.

  129. the goat
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    Best. Idea. Ever.

  130. Epic Fail
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

    andrea: what a relief! thought I was the only one who did not like these scenes. Dreadful dialogues… trying to sound intriguing and resulting so pretentious…

    Same here, sister. That was some AWFUL writing. Truly bad.

  131. andrea
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    Epic Fail: Same here, sister. That was some AWFUL writing. Truly bad.

    I´m glad not be the only one. I thought someone would jump at my jugular for saying that.
    Even the actors seem uncomfortable with these dialogues. And they´re goood actors.

  132. Dreamlife
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

    Bro:

    Shae. Do not like tv-Shae at all. She’s the complete opposite to book-Shae.

    Hitting us round the head over and over that Loras and Renly are an item. The way the books dealt with that relationship was far superior, nice and subtle.

    Not having Jeor Mormont’s raven. I missed that guy. All he would have had to do was sit round on James Cosmos’shoulder in a few shots. Not even all the time. Maybe James is allergic to ravens?!

    Yeah, Shae in the books was kind of cute and at least pretended to like Tyrion. TV Shae is kind of bitchy…not sure what Tyrion sees in her.

    For Loras & Renly, I would have preferred a more traditional lovemaking scene to the “one armpit getting shaved by Loras followed by a b.j.” scene. I like that they’re being open about them being gay but all I could think about in that scene was “is that brown paste supposed to be shaving cream?”

    Wow—I’ve got to stop. It’s too easy to get nitpicky. I think we need a positive topic…and soon. Vote for best actor and actress??

  133. WARZ
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    WARZ: Nah, I personally don’t think so. Ned Stark was obviously an able combatent, as was King Robert, Jaime Lannister just got more “screen time” in the books as far as the timelines allowed. It would have been like Errol Flynn Vs. John Wayne, if that makes sense???

    I’ve just re-read my little diatribe.. plz disregard. I’d rather counter such arguments whilst affecting at least a sembelence of sobriety.
    In other words I’ve typed a bunch of shit under the influence of alchol.

  134. Sherrit
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    andrea,

    I too liked the Varys and LF scenes and I enjoy watching them every time.

    But when Arya killed the stableboy – that was really weak. Nine-year-old book Arya stabs a kid willingly, but they make her three years older and her first kill is pretty much an accident?

    Pah, I say to that. PAH!

  135. Arrogant Bastard
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    Aule,

    4. We know it was Jaime pushing Bran out the window since episode 1. This is one of the main plot points in the first book. The suspense of this story is completely lost and the blaming of Tyrion for it just makes no sense at all making Cat look somewhat stupid.

    I’m pretty sure in the book we were supposed to know it was Jaime pushing Bran out the window. Bran recognizes the man as looking identical to the queen, and although he doesn’t think of his name, it’s kind of obvious that it’s Cersei’s twin brother. Plus, there’s no real way to shoot that scene in the show without it being obvious that it’s Jaime unless they put a mask on him or something, which would just be stupid. Also, Tyrion is blamed for hiring the catspaw to murder Bran after the fall, not for the fall itself, which is pretty much what happened in the book.

    I didn’t really care about the absence of Roose, Mya, the Blackfish or Donal Noye. They don’t really do much to justify their inclusion and hiring an actor for them this season, especially Roose, since at the time they didn’t know if they would get a second season so it wouldn’t make sense to pay a good actor for a small part or use an extra when his role expands the next two seasons. Mya would have been nice if the show had 12 or 13 episodes instead of 10, but with only 10, I’m glad they didn’t include her.

    I think my biggest compliant and the worst scene in teh series was LF explaining teh Hound’s backstory to Sansa. The whole scene felt really forced, like it was only included so that it would make sense in the next episode why the Hound defends Ser Loras against Gregor. At that point in episode 4, the audience hardly knows Littlefinger, and the Hound has only had maybe five lines of dialog so it just feels off that a character is recounting his backstory. Also, it’s the Hound’s best scene in the first book and definitely his longest.

  136. Eagle1
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    Lack of Targaryen purple/violet eyes. This is a magical family that has the ability to control dragons. Anything that sets them apart, including the super-blonde hair and purple eyes, helps to convey their uniqueness / specialness. That’s what George was going for in the first place. A set of purple contacts goes for about $10. Or, just make the change digitally. Easy stuff.

  137. Knurk
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    andrea,
    I did not loooooooooooooooooooove it, but I did love it. “Have you been fantasizing about my gash?” Gosh, when you say it like it that it does sound like bad writing, but the actors were just so good they could have read a Dance with Dragons to eachother and I would have loved it.
    WARZ,

    drunk postings make this board vivid WARZ, keep up the good work. When you are sobered up though, you will remember that Jaime would have kicked Ned’s ass any hour of the day in the books (seriously). That they try to even them out in the series was a cool thing to do tv-wise.

  138. Epic Fail
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    andrea,

    My thoughts too. An actor’s nightmare. But a contract is a contract.

  139. purplejilly
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    Franny Bee: I think the change in Sansa’s character was bad. I wanted her to be the (naive) idealist of the books, as opposed to the bitchy teen. Would have made her story more poignant.

    This is on my list, too.. I HATED the “Disney Channel Teen” snarky Sansa. That stupid dialogue they had poor Sophie saying just jolted you right out of the show. (Do you even HAVE hair under there? Oh wait, I just remembered, I DONT CARE!) It didn’t belong in a period-style show like GoT. Book Sansa has grown up learning what a lady is and isn’t supposed to do, and knows the fairytale songs and stories. She is playing her part, like she is supposed to, by being naive, courteous, positive, and a ‘lady’. Sure, a little angst or growling at Arya is okay, because Arya is doing everything wrong, in Sansa’s eyes, and is messing with Sansa’s fairytale life plans. But to have Sansa be that rude, and that disrespectful to her Septa? Definitely not, not at this point in her life, anyway. Sansa takes pride in following the rules of polite society, even when things go wrong for her, she is still blindly following the rules of polite society, and it was always a parallel for me, how Ned was so bound to honor, and suffered for it, and Sansa was so bound to courtesy, and politeness, and following the rules of society, and suffered for it. They should have left Sansa as Miss prim and polite.

  140. Jessica C.
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    The decision to put that ugly wig over Finn Jones gorgeous curly hair.

    editing in the stable boy/ Arya scene.

    Sansa talking back to Septa Mordane. It was really an out of character moment for her because book Sansa would never do that.

    and this is really nitpicking but Ned Stark’s hair color.

  141. andrea
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    Knurk: they could have read a Dance with Dragons to eachother and I would have loved it.

    jijijijijiji I don´t believe you!!!
    I´ll see these scenes again. I remember two between them, maybe one is worse than another… but I´ll try.

  142. The Lightning Lord
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    There are hinted spoilers from future books as well (as far as book five), including a potentially major spoiler hint. Why post these spoiler warnings when you’re going to do it anyay?

  143. andrea
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    Sherrit,

    Yes, I know some people like it and because of that I was afraid for my yugular. But hey, it´s perfectly ok. For me, it was bad writing.

    Sherrit: and her first kill is pretty much an accident?

    As you say: “an accident”. It was awful. They took away all the drama. Shame.

  144. Jo
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    Oh yeah,you guys just reminded me…why the hell did Sansa not have any manners?

    “A lady’s armor is her courtesy”

    Her running around rolling her eyes, whining, mouthing off to a septa, and acting like a petulant brat was completely unlike the ladylike Sansa in the books.

    Sure, she had her less refined moments fighting with her younger sister, but she would never act like that in public.

    Arya plays the game with swords, and Sansa plays it with etiquette.

    I sort of felt like writers just skipped over the Sansa chapters completely.

    Also, I am puzzled that they never explained The Seven, or mentioned the religion of the Andals, even in passing. We see Catelyn making that freaky Blair-Witch wreath for Bran on his sickbed and it’s left to the viewers to scratch their heads and wonder what all that creepiness was about.

  145. markosf
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    Aaron,
    i also didn’t quite know what that meant. though i have been thinking jon is kinda hot.
    sorry off topic.

  146. T2
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    I have to completely agree with Morrigan said. I am in the business and watched the show with many people in said business (some Emmy winning writers, others producers and actors, a couple who are on current HBO shows) I’m not saying this to try to look cool – just to hammer home the point – that many of my friends and peers had the same problems that Morrigan addressed.

    The actors main complaint was Cersei. I don’t know if it’s the writing or the interpretation of the character but Lena’s Cersei is not good. People in my group didn’t think she’d make it to the end of the season, because she was ‘dull and played one note.’ someone asked me if her character had a purpose in the story – and i wanted to scream – ‘if there’s a villain – it’s her!!!’ i eventually just told them – picture tilda swinton playing the role…and they got what it was supposed to be.

    ….and littlefinger annoyed us a bit too – if he had a pointy moustache – he’d be twirling it. non-stop. the subtlety of Varys is so much more chilling than the smarmy smile of someone whose subtext is ‘look at me i’m playing iago.’ i actually feel the casting for the children actors was better than the adults.

    and all the sex. ‘in lieu of creativity – sexuality’ is a phrase that kept being bandied about. a times reviewer put it best – half way into the season it doesn’t draw us in, it pushed us away. it’s cheap and furthers nothing. the writers of the group hated it. they say that’s what directors do when you have a bad story. AND a couple women of the group burst out laughing at theon’s limp d*ck. (which it wouldn’t be at that moment) it’s so annoying that they are trying to be edgy and instead you are pulled out of the story because it’s completely inaccurate.

    Another Major problem! – of the group of about a dozen, not one of them could tell you who Rhaegar was. I was amazed they didn’t have Ned go into a fever dream (to quote another Martin book) and have a little back story flashback of the Battle of the Trident and the pivotal ‘promise me.’ If we don’t get that now – the pay off is going to be all the more confusing. instead of – ‘holy sh*t jons parents are (spoiler)’ instead it’s going to be ‘jons parents are…wait, who’s that?’ more people know who roz is…(deep breath)

    also – winterfell looked like jaba’s palace. you wouldn’t build flat roofs in a place it snowed for years on end.

    All in all – we all still got together each week, watched it, and liked it. HBO did many things right – but they could have done many things much better. and the budget sadly hampered many things there is no need to go into. and, of the dozen, i am happy to say about half of them are now reading the books.

  147. Epic knows nothing
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    T2,

    Oh, oh nothing against you and your pals but the stuff you bring up is extremely arbitrary. There are truly many problems in the show IMO, you only pick a small handful.

    Lena Headey is not a problem. Clearly the character is far fetched for one thing (even GRRM had to submit to that in the end, he couldn’t explain what her problem was), and the script writing in general is too fucking dense in general. Like many actors on the show, she is working with a weak script and an impossibly cardboard character and somehow barely manages to keep this godamn thing going as best any professional could.

    Having said that she’s totally miscast for Cersei IMO.

  148. andrea
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    T2: The actors main complaint was Cersei. I don’t know if it’s the writing or the interpretation of the character but Lena’s Cersei is not good.

    I don´t know what Morrigan said but in my clumsy english I said something similar in an earlier post: ” her madness seems too reasonable sometimes…? Maybe is just the actress or maybe D&D gave her too many excuses for being who she is or what she becomes… I don´t know, Cersei TV has something I don´t like”.
    And her eyebrows are not what bothers me!!! I can´t say exactly what I think in english. It´s like this Cersei is a character from another movie… maybe a Woody Allen movie???
    I mean: if you´re mad and a evil bitch… well, you´re mad and that´s that.

  149. Sara
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 10:59 pm | Permalink

    Things I missed:
    -references to the Tower of Joy when Lyanna died. The whole mystery of it is a huge part of the story, and a huge part of Ned.
    -Sandor/Sansa, though they have plenty of time in 2nd season to flesh it out
    -Time passing and large crowds.
    -Direwolves, though they have stated for 2nd season they will be way more involved.
    -Bran’s dreams! They are way more than him just wandering around and seeing the crow squawk.
    -Cersei talking about how she aborted the king’s kids—she didn’t have a baby with Robert in the books, they made her way more human.

    Basically….in my head/the books everything is bigger and better, more intricate. But I like both versions of the story. There are lots of little things that I would have loved for them to include, but all in all I loved the show completely and can’t wait for 2nd season.

  150. Brett
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 11:05 pm | Permalink

    I’m not going to complain about the lack of any special effects, with one exception. Budgetary costs are a big problem, even on a show like this (and GoT’s season one budget is high, albeit half that of Rome‘s season one). My problems are

    1. Renly: It’s been said above, but Renly was simply not Renly in this show. Renly is supposed to be arrogant, charming, ambitious, and handsome. This is the guy who leads a coup after Robert’s death simply because he wants the Throne and is willing to seize it by force with no justification at all. He does not need to be convinced and babied into it by his lover. Think James Purfoy at his hammiest best in Rome.

    2. Cersei: Although I liked most of her performance, Lena Headey’s Cersei really needs some facial expressions aside from “quizzical smile”. It doesn’t help that they cut out some of her more passionate moments, like her angry slap and speech to Ned after Ned brings up the twincest with her.

    3. The Others: This bothered me a lot. The Others in the show look more like generic zombies, which is boring and repetitive. They should have at least tried to make them look like the ethereal, frightening white creatures that they were in the books. And call them “The Others”, not the “White Walkers” – the latter sounds cheesy.

  151. andrea
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    T2: ’ i eventually just told them – picture tilda swinton playing the role…and they got what it was supposed to be.

    Tilda Swinton??? mmmmmmmmmmh because of the acting chops could be but physically? very androgynous (?) for Cersei. Well, right now, discussing Cersei´s casting no longer makes sense.

  152. T2
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 11:27 pm | Permalink

    andrea,

    No – just due to the chops and not being afraid to be a bitch. TV Cersei seems to really want to be liked and too afraid to just jump in and play a mean character.

    There is something sexy about power. Though Tilda may not be the most attractive actress, in Narnia (awful movies) she has some sex appeal because she is powerful. Lena, sadly, isn’t either. Furrowed brows and smoky voice doesn’t make one sexy.

    Thought you’re right – what good does complaining about it do. I was just bringing up that people new to the world GRRM created – feel that Cersei is some kind of damsel in distress, and a minor nuisance than an evil queen who wields tremendous power – who has a long way to fall. As of now, she doesn’t have far to fall, because she comes off really weak

  153. eleusis
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 11:29 pm | Permalink

    I think Ros is being set up to take Alayaya’s place in the narrative, probably because HBO doesn’t want to depict a black woman getting whipped in the public square. I can’t really blame them.

    Personally I’m still really bugged by the change to Dany and Drogo’s wedding night, which renders their later affection as sort of a Rape Into Love scenario that smacks of Stockholm Syndrome rather than the honest love it was in the books. It also does something of a disservice to Drogo’s character.

  154. Becky Wilson
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    Most of what I would say has been said. But I’ll say it again, because that’s what fans on forums do. :)

    Things that made me grumpy:
    * Sandor. Not only did they practically write out one of the richest, most complex characters in the book, with one of the most intriguing relationships, they did Rory McCann a huge disservice. He’s awesome. Let him be awesome with the awesome Hound. Besides. We need a “LOOK AT ME” scene. Didn’t GRRM say that’s what sold him on Rory’s audition?

    * Drogo and Dany’s wedding. Gr. Grump. Drogo wasn’t a brutal savage on their wedding night. That came in the following nights when he made her cry. But at least their first night established a foundation where I could buy that she’d fall in love with him. (Healthy or not, not really debating that right now.)

    * Too much on things like Ros and random King Robert being a jerk scenes, too little on things like Roose Bolton (Who is more evil and more important than Ramsay. Like In the Red Freaking Wedding. Who else are they going to get to do the deed?) Like the Blackfish *Fistbumps Blackfish Blues* I dunno. It just felt like their priorities were weird in places.

    * No flashbacks. I obsess over these books for the little conspiracies and intricate theories and possibilities. No Tower of Joy breaks my heart. That’s my favorite theory thing!

    Things I didn’t mind so much:
    * Direwolves. I’m ok with it. I’m not sure why I don’t mind that they had a limited screen time, but I don’t.

    * Shae. I dig her. I think she’s much more of someone Tyrion could get stupid and emotional about. She’s more on his level than the book Shae, who was more insipid.

    * The Dothraki. I dug them too. I have no idea why people have an issue with them. Other than there’s like 4 of them. But that didn’t detract anything for me.

    Just my thoughts!

  155. educatedpony
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

    i’ve said it before and i’ll say it again:

    my only real, enduring problem with the show was the final scene with dany. did that bug no one else? seriously??? IRL i know fans that didn’t like it, but i haven’t heard a peep on here. c’mon, i want another super fan to complain with! :) yes, the dragons looked good. dany, however…one, it was day light. two, she was cowering (crouching? sitting?) in the ashes with the dragons instead of standing with them, which made her seem unsure of herself and weak. in the book didn’t she like, walk out from the fire with the dragons? three, she had a head full of hair! losing most of the power of the reborn from fire symbolism (i thought).

    and where were her blood riders swearing oaths? i really missed the part when she offered them weapons from her wedding and they turned them down only to then fall at her feet. when she stood up from the ashes everyone bowed but no one seemed particularly wowed by her besides jorah, who is already her number one fan.

    i also really missed the sounds of the eggs cracking open in the fire.

    …and the fire wasn’t big enough. ok i’ll stop.

    i thought that whole scene was so less powerful than in the book. it was soooo much less climactic. like 100% of the energy went into cool dragons and zilch went into how this is supposed to be dany reborn, a new woman. not same ol’ dany + dragons.

  156. andrea
    Posted August 4, 2011 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    T2: people new to the world GRRM created – feel that Cersei is some kind of damsel in distress, and a minor nuisance than an evil queen who wields tremendous power

    Wow! damsel in distress??? that´s funny. We must admit though that Cersei is a very complicated character. I like Lena H. as an actress but she lacks Cersei´s ferocity I think. We´ll see. I hope she can change.

  157. Tropxe
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:07 am | Permalink

    Brett,

    Actually, I’d say most people would say “The Others” sounds more cheesy and that’s the reason it was changed. A lot of the more corny Fantasy-sounding stuff has been removed since that’s the sort of thing that normally puts non-geeks off Fantasy. To a person who isn’t used to the hackneyed crap you get in most Fantasy novels, it’s the clichés that keep the characters and events at arm’s length and stop them really getting into it. Even the apparent change of series title from A Song of Ice and Fire (sounds like a generic DnD videogame) to the first book’s sub-title,. Game of Thrones (sounds more like an intrigue-heavy story set in a monarchical (and real) society) follows this pattern.

    Anyway, as for The Others, not only does it sound like a cheap aliens-invade-1950s-America B-movie, it’s also the name of an English band, and at least people I know would instantly thing of the band if they hear that name. It’d be like if the bad guys were called The White Stripes.

  158. heybuddywhatsup
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:08 am | Permalink

    Dany/Drogo rape scene. Because having this big gruff barbarian rape a crying girl is completely unexpected right guys? Wouldn’t it have been so much better to follow what happens in the book? If Drogo had massaged her shoulders and been patient and waited for Dany to make her move, he would have looked so much more masculine. Instead he’s just some rapist and having Dany fall in love with him after that is complete bullshit.

  159. andrea
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:08 am | Permalink

    educatedpony,

    I complained enough already (had not done before) but, yes: lacking drama in the scene, she looked frightened, I know (and you know: I´d be scared too). But I think we´re all happy that the dragons are so good.

  160. Tropxe
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:15 am | Permalink

    purplejilly,

    Sansa’s issue isn’t following the rules of society, it’s living with her head in the clouds and believing fairy tales are true. It’s made obvious in both the book and TV series that she thinks all knights should be handsome and gallant and that “Joff” can’t possibly be anything less than a perfect Prince Charming. Her ladylike behaviour and affectations are just her playing her part in her relentless delusion. When she realises that she’s been an idiot all along and just essentially roleplaying the princess in a kids’ fairy tale, she has no issue being rude to Joffrey and saying she’d like Robb to bring Joffrey’s head to her on a spike.

    Basically, ALL characters (more or less) put up that façade and play their part in society when it’s expected of them, false courtesy and all, it’s just that Sansa actually thinks she’s some kind of Rapunzel figure whereas everyone else knows it’s just “the done thing” or whatever. It almost seems like she was conceived as a character in order to make the setting more believable by having her naive delusions as a juxtaposition to GRRM’s more grim and dark take on the genre.

  161. Dan
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:45 am | Permalink

    I didn’t mind the Ros character addition. It gave a chance to give a little more depth to Pycelle, Theon, and Littlefinger that you miss without the inter monologue of the POV charters in the book. It could have been done other ways but I thought she did the job.

  162. Sly
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    Sansa being rude. Whatever happened to Courtesy is a Lady’s Armor? Seriously.

  163. Dan
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:55 am | Permalink

    Tropxe,

    Also others is used in Lost so it’s a good change for that alone.

  164. Ed
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    Quoted for truth.

    Michael Silva:
    I think the lack of Hound scenes was the greatest disappointment from season one.

  165. Brett
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 1:12 am | Permalink

    This picture from the comic book version of A Game of Thrones that is coming out is much closer to how the Others <should look: ethereal, ice-pale, fey, almost elvish. My only quibble is that the Other in the picture looks far too "built" in terms of physique. He/she/it should be much more slender.

    Not to mention that they need to be silent. That was a distinct part of the Others in the books: they moved utterly silently, leaving no trace upon the snow. Ser Waymar Royce in the Prologue had no warning aside from a sudden drop in temperature that the Others were upon him.

    EDIT: Before anyone mentions it, yes, I understand the budget concerns. But it's not like you have to have a bunch of them, like in the Prologue – and we've only actually seen Others on two occasions in the series.

    Tropxe,

    Actually, I’d say most people would say “The Others” sounds more cheesy and that’s the reason it was changed

    We’ll just have to disagree then. To me, “White Walkers” sounds like a more generic cheesy monster name. “Others” emphasizes the strangeness of them, and the fact that humans in the Martinworld know virtually nothing about them other than what they’ve heard in story and song.

  166. Dan
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 1:17 am | Permalink

    Brett,

    They also call them the white walkers in the book and calling them the others would have seemed like they were ripping Lost if you hadn’t read the book.

  167. paulgude
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 1:26 am | Permalink

    Dan,

    That’s my thought about Ros. Some folks can’t look at her without thinking of the character/animal who could be on screen instead of her. I still believe that these scenes existed before Ros was brought in as a more sustained character. I think Ros took the place of unnamed whores/sounding boards, not direwolves or the Blackfish.

  168. MAC
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 1:57 am | Permalink

    Aule:
    4. We know it was Jaime pushing Bran out the window since episode 1. This is one of the main plot points in the first book. The suspense of this story is completely lost and the blaming of Tyrion for it just makes no sense at all making Cat look somewhat stupid.

    I think you’re misremembering. We knew it was Jaime at the same point in the book as we did in the show. What has not been cleared up at this point in the show is who sent the assassin.

  169. KG
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 2:07 am | Permalink

    Brett,

    Actually, the Others were quite noisy, speaking their language that sounded like ice cracking.

  170. Martinus
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 2:10 am | Permalink

    Seriously, I think some of you guys are seriously underestimating just how difficult it would have been to get more of the direwolves than we did. Can you imagine how many takes, how many safety precautions, how much time and effort went into the Summer, Nymeria, and Grey Wind mauling scenes? We’re lucky we got that much. I feel like it isn’t until later that we realize that the Direwolves are much, much more than just pets. You get a hint of it with Bran in the first book, but not until the rest of the Starks start having wolf-dreams is it really obvious. So yes, I would have rather seen more of Grey Wind, especially, but each of the wolves got at least one really establishing scene (Summer defending Bran, Nymeria driven off by Arya/mauling Joffrey, Grey Wind biting off Greatjon Umber’s fingers, Shaggydog looking borderline feral in the crypt, and Ghost scaring the shit out of Rast). Are you really going to ask for more than that?

    I wish Sandor had more screentime and a more developed character, although that can be remedied in Season 2, and probably will be as he spend a lot of time around captive Sansa. I thought Aiden’s LF was deliciously slimy and great in the sense that he so broadcasts his untrustworthiness that people think they have him measured which will make the revelations at the end of SoS even more fun. I thought Sansa had some good and bad, but nothing that can’t be redeemed. I may be in the minority here, but I liked TV Renly. He seemed like a real person, trapped in her brother’s shadow, rejecting Robert’s bloodthirsty attitudes, wanting to be king because he honestly thinks he can do it better. It makes him significantly different from Robert (and from Stannis).

  171. Darkskye
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 2:18 am | Permalink

    Aule, Aule

    Posted August 4, 2011 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    Aaron,

    Well, gay is not the right word. I just did not know how to describe this general feeling I’m getting from TV-Jon, which is different from what I get from Book-Jon. What seems odd is that he’s always so well groomed no matter what. Like an old hero movie. This seems particularly odd in a medieval setting. I would expect people to be generally dirty and having little care for their personal appearance other than to show off their status and riches.

    He also shows very little if no interest at all in women, while his mates Robb and Theon do, or at least I got that impression. Then there’s his extreme shyness, which is overdone in the TV series, imo. And finally, his relationship with Sam looks sometimes a little bit beyond the friendship mark, because of the way they look and smile at each other.

    dude, he was born and raised as the son of the most powerful man in the north, one might forgive him for being somewhat better groomed than the common born “theives and rapers” of the wall, and he dosent lack interest in girls he just refuses to add another bastard to the world.

  172. Dan
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 2:18 am | Permalink

    I didn’t agree with all the cersei bashing so I asked my girlfriend, who hasn’t read the books, what she thought of her character. She said “I hate her. She is a lying, incesting, whore”. Seems like they were able to get her role in the story across to a newb to the series pretty well.

  173. dimensionallyt
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 2:55 am | Permalink

    NickS: 7. SHAE… holy moses she was horrendous. everything else i mentioned i can forgive, but the decision on Shae was just monumentally bad

    THIS! I’ll come back to my list later, but I just had to say Shae is AWFUL! I love her in the books :(

  174. StephenQ
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 3:04 am | Permalink

    Jerry Glonek,

    So this has gone from a discussion about the worst parts of the show’s 1st season based on the first book to giving spoilers about the recently released 5th book? Thanks alot…

  175. Eleanor
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 3:33 am | Permalink

    Louisa: I don’t get this Tower of Joy lovefest. It’s not really important in the grand scheme of things…

    So glad somebody agrees! I think a flashback of that length would have completely spoiled the pace of whichever episode it appeared in. Indeed it was so obvious to me that they would never include it that I felt very surprised the first time people were saying in comments, “right, so ToJ will be next episode then?” as if it were as necessary to the story as Bran falling or Ned dying.

  176. Max from Russia
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 3:58 am | Permalink

    People what do you think about that – http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/2257174/Liam+Neeson+in+Game+of+Thrones+desc ? Is that really Liam Neeson or maybe Ralph Fienss ?

  177. dimensionallyt
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 4:13 am | Permalink

    Ok, this is hard. In no particular order, well except for SHAE!!!!

    1) Shae, Shae, Shae. Everything about her is awful! I wanted to put my foot through the screen. I cannot express how much I hate the TV version.

    2) Indiscreet Littlefinger. What have they done with LF? Why tell a pair of random prossies his life story? Why make public gay jokes? Why tell Sansa about the Hound? Very OOC

    3) Cersei’s love for Robert. Honestly, I like most changes with Cersei (barring the silly icecream wig) but having her love Robert? That I don’t get. Her sympathetic nature comes from her love for her children and in being a female pawn in her universe. It does not and should not come through unrequited love for Robert. This weakens her in my opinion. Her strength as a woman should not be a result of a failed love for a man, but as a result of being a strong woman (and mother) in a man’s world!

    4) Dany. I love Emilia Clarke! I hate what D&D did to Dany, up until the last 3 episodes or so (I have high hopes for S2). One of my favourite Dany scenes was her getting the horse and jumping over the firepit. I missed this! I hated that she was not the one to make Viserys walk. I hated the changes to her relationship with Drogo. I understand how the rapes in the book were tricky to do, but TV is a different beast, if they wanted a romance why not make it a proper romance? Show his tenderness on the first night and how he offers her more than Viserys ever did, have it blossom naturally. This turnabout was just wrong. Follow the book or make her stronger, don’t do some kind of half-arsed thing. I actually gave up watching because of the Dany-fail and only picked it up again when my friends assured me it got better.

    5) Lack of direwolves. No excuse!

    6) Pointless sex. I distinguish pointless here as the awful lesbian scene, Roz’s flashing from the turnip cart etc. Viserys/Doreah bath, for example, was not pointless because it developed both people as characters.

    7) Sandor. He was castrated as a character and very much ignored. I’m not a San/San shipper but I do feel the bond in the books and wouldn’t mind if they ended up together somehow (as friends or more) but I really did miss their key scene together.

  178. Tar Kidho
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 4:15 am | Permalink

    I’m one of those who has not scared away from critisizing changes I didn’t like during the season, so I’ll stay away from this.

    BUT: GRRM is back at home, so be ready for another round of Casting Clues later today!
    (been like this the past two times he was home shortly between travels)

  179. Alexa
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 4:27 am | Permalink

    Milan Petrovic,

    E zemo, ako si im reko! ;)

  180. Snark
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 4:39 am | Permalink

    1. Ros. Hey, remember when they were just casting the pilot and the character of “red headed whore” popped up? Everone was like, who could this be? I don’t remember this character from the books? What is going on?! I guess not much has changed really. I would not have minded if she had been an extra with a few lines, but after she cropped up in Jon’s not-quite-first-time story it was clear they were taking this a bit too far. Esme you are a beautiful and a good actress, I just wish they could have found you a part relevant to the story.

    2. Not enough Hound.

    3. Episode 3. There was a lot I liked about this episode, with some key scenes and hey, SYRIO, but it was just so uneven and every other scene was overlong scenes of characters comparing first kills/worst meals/daddy issues all in the service of fleshing out the world. I realise this is necessary to some degree, but that shit was just clumsy.

    4. Jon got off pretty lightly for trying to stab Thorne in the face don’t you think? It cheapened his eventual acquittal I felt.

    5. Making the 8. Wait, the Riverlands isn’t one of the 7 kingdoms? What the what now?

    6. Khallasar of 40 not 40,000. Come one HBO, they managed it in Zulu with cardboard cut outs!

    7. It would have been nice to see some signs of Renly’s popularity. We didn’t get much apart from the fact that he lives in his brothers shadow, isn’t too fond of fighting and likes a man who knows how to hand le his lance (ahem).

    Everything else I loved. Well apart from stableboy.

  181. clemintine
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 5:01 am | Permalink

    1) Ros. In a book series with a cast of 1000+, what were they thinking inventing a totally new character? A composite, which is what I hope Alton Lannister is, I understand. They don’t need a new character, they could have spent more time on actual, real characters.

    2) Littlefinger’s brothel scene. Too long, too slurpy, too obviously sex just for the sake of it. We get it. Littlefinger can’t fuck Cat, so he’s going to fuck Ned and then play with his ass. This scene leads to my next two points.

    3) The slurps! I like seeing gorgeous people having sex, of any gender permutation, just like any normal human being. But cut down on the cheesy, porny sound effects. Renly and Loras’s scene was supposed to be loving, and tender, and then… boom. Slurp slurp slurp.

    4) Cutting on the battles. I’m not talking about the large ones like the Whispering Woods, because I’d rather they spend their budget on character and plot. If I wanted to see a huge, adrenaline pumping war I could watch some turdy Hollywood film. I’m talking about the small ones. Sandor vs. Gregor was cut too short, Slynt’s betrayal of Ned and the taking of his warriors (which if they had cut down on the pointless whore scene they could have given more time to this one), the dissolving of the Drogo’s hoard, and wouldn’t it have been badass if (medium Dance spoiler) they had shown us Barristen fighting his way out of the city, just so that he could sneak back in?

    5) Too much Theon, too little Robb. Book 1 is not Theon’s book, and yet they seemed to spend so much time driving home who he was. I get it already move on. Books 2 and 5 are his books and he’ll have enough time to take the stage later.

    6) No Tower of Joy or any flashbacks. Such a poignant, powerful scene. Promise me Ned. I was looking forwards to watching this on television. I hope that they do show it at some point. And what was with that flash of Ned/Ned-lookalike-getting-strangled-who-might-have-been-Brandon in the trailer that was on the cutting room floor, and D&D says there won’t be any deleted scenes on the DVD? Are they moving it up to season 2? I want flashbacks, like that, or Ned riding in to see Jamie on the Throne, or Rheagar and his harp. Will they ever show us the tournament at Harrenhal in the year of the false spring? I hope they use those instead of some of the chunky exposition they were fond of.

    7) Making the Drothaki a racial hodgepodge while keeping Westros racially consistent. Because people of colour aren’t interchangeable, even though they are treated as such.

  182. darquemode
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 5:21 am | Permalink

    First off, my two big complaints are Cersei and Sansa. I don’t know if it’s direction from D&D or the actresses choices, but both characters are very pale comparisons of their book counterparts!

    1-Cersei’s humanization took away her passion and fire from the books… or Lena did that. Regarldess I miss that barely beneath the surface explosiveness from the books.

    2-Sansa was rude? Wait – what? Just wrong!

    The next 3 nitpicks are both “expanded” charcters who did not have a POV in the book: Littlefinger, Renly and Loras.

    3-Renly was basically changed 180 degrees from the books. No I don’t mean straight to gay – I mean charismatic and swashbuckling to unlikeable and timid.

    4-Loras was supposed to be the very embodiment of chivalry. the boy born to be a knight, raised in the very center of chivalry in the Seven Kingdoms. He was just too smarmy and swishy in GoT.

    5-Littlefinger- Wow. In the books he was the great and powerful Oz – the man behind it all you had little idea was running the game. In the series he was Simon Barsinister almost rejoicing when people knew he was up to something bad. Way too obvious.

    Finally, the last two gripes I can understand to a degree…..

    6-The lack of Direwolves. Put them under a table, chained to a post in the background, running across the yard behind the main framed shot. SOMETHING! They didn’t need to “act” or be active in many scenes, but they should have been present in many, many more than they were.

    7- The lack of the sense of time and distance in the series. Distances and lengths of time were lost and inconsistant in the seires. Okay, I get that GRRM does not referance time that often, but a reader can still “feel” the distance traveled or the time passed. D&D did a very poor job conveying the size of Westeros, the distance between kingdoms, the relation of time between scenes.

    I don’t think they needed a comic book header in the corner saying “meanwhile, back at the Wall” or ” 4 days later in the forest” etc, but they need to do a better job showing time change since their are virtually no passing seasons in the saga.

    All that said, Season One was a near masterpiece that grows on me with each watching.

  183. Rimshot
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 5:27 am | Permalink

    oh dear…

    The two scenes I’m in are the Tourney and the Ros/Theon/Turnip Cart scenes! Maybe I’m a jinx!!

    My biggest disappointment was that Blackadder didn’t turn up at the Tourney. I was so looking forward to some Blackadder – Baldrick banter as they try to get his armour on.

    Baldrick – “My Lord?”
    Blackadder – “Yes, you dimwitted oaf?”
    Baldrick – “I have a cunning plan to knock the Mountain off that horse”
    Blackadder – “Do you?”
    Baldrick – “…..no”

  184. nitpicker
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    For me most of all ToJ and badass-epicness of the Sword of the Morning – Arthur Dayne – the most badass knight ever lived…

  185. darquemode
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 5:39 am | Permalink

    Snark,

    I never thought the Riverlands were 1 of the Seven Kingdoms. I thought The Seven Kingdoms were The North, The Iron Islands, The Vale of Arryn, The Westerlands, The Reach, The Stormlands and Dorne. The Riverlands and Crownlands were never actually independant kingdoms were they?

    Nine regions of Westeros, but The Seven Kingdoms. Well 10 regions if you count the north beyond The Wall as a region of its own.

    It’s still somewhat confusing to me, so I’m not positive.

  186. HouseLark
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 6:00 am | Permalink

    The lack of crowds for the Tourney was unforgivable. Even a shoddy little show like Spartacus can put together good crowd scenes. Nobody would be really bothered if it was just the same sections of people repeated a loads of times. The point of a crowd scene is to add to the background – the bit you only see with your peripheral vision while focussed on the main characters in a scene. Yes, some pedant will take to the boards saying that they saw the same person in the crowd 50 times but for every one of them, there’s a thousand others who would never notice.

    Everything else I can live with. Even Ros, pointless though she was.

  187. Blackfish Blues
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 6:12 am | Permalink

    (splitting my post to avoid moderation, fearing I’ll get moderated anyway because this time I’m really long-winded)

    I’m reassured that I’m not the only one who sometimes posts under the influence!

    I loved S1, and many of the changes – especially visual ones such as daytime scenes, crowds, battles – went unnoticed because I was too caught up in the story. I also had the pleasure of watching eps a couple of time with friends, and that helps overlooking such things. We did laugh like loons at the dead rat on Cersei’s head. Hey, they are the friends who got me into this mess, they better amuse me to make up for it!

    As for omissions such as Mormont’s raven, or even the direwolves (horror!), I did miss them, but I liked how much of GRRM’s saga was kept, and the joy of hearing a familiar line or seeing this exceptional cast bring to life the characters I love overcame the disappointment.

    I’m too lazy to re-read my reviews, but if I don’t remember what I didn’t like, it was not a big deal. I do remember that I hated most sex scenes. After you’ve finished calling me a prude and a hypocrite, I’ll trot out my pet theory: we all agree that violence is bad, instead sex is not bad but complicated and different for each of us, so its depiction should be careful. The scenes in S1 did not shock me, they were RIDICULOUS. I appreciate a bold, well made sex scene, not to mention a full frontal of a handsome lad; I don’t appreciate everybody doing it doggy style, loud BJs and porn-movie moans drowning out Littlefinger’s big moment. That Loras/Renly scene disappointed me so much because, apart from the worry for Renly’s other armpit, it seemed very tender. When Loras knelt, I thought he was going to lay his cheek on Renly’s thigh. What would come after was obvious, but if it had stopped there, it would have been the best sex scene in the season. Instead SLURP SLURP SLURP. It’s a matter of taste. (OMG, wrong choice of words.)

    My Top 3 of the changes listed by FaB are, in reverse order:

    3. Sandor and Sansa both alone and together. The closeted SanSan ‘shipper in me would have wished for more, although we did have the handkerchief moment. (Why the hell does a Kingsguard carry a handkerchief with him? That thought almost ruined the drama of the scene. Manly tears!) I like how Sansa was portrayed; I think her rudeness conveyed her shock at the destruction of so many of her dreams, even though worse was to come. I’m more perplexed about Sandor. I still hold to my theory that Rory McCann is playing him subdued to go totally unhinged in S2, but in the end he does look like a perfectly nice guy, which is not exactly the impression the Hound should give.

    2. Roz. In the same way I found the sex scenes ridiculous, I found her ubiquitly ridiculous. I personally dislike the actress; Shae intrigues me much more. But apart from this… no, just no. Thinking back on it, I do understand that her scenes had a meaning, and that having the same character play them made sense. I liked how she highlighted Theon’s character, and the way she conveyed her disgust after being with Pycelle. The brothel scene I’ve already mentioned, but it was obvious she would be in it. I do think she has an important part to play in the future (faux-Shae? so when she’s whipped it will be more emotional because we know her already). Also, I don’t think it was her presence who robbed us of the Blackfish. BUT, while watching, seeing her appear again, and AGAIN, and hearing her be mentioned even when she wasn’t on screen, was unnerving. Maybe the part I resent more is Jon’s comment. He could have mentioned a generic girl. Instead it really sounded to me like “Roz does Westeros”.

    And the first place goes to… surprise…

  188. Blackfish Blues
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    1. No Blackfish. He’s my favourite character of the saga; being a rebellious loner myself, not too young, with family issues, I relate a lot and I’m using him as therapy. I know I’ll always have him in the books and in my mind, but I’m worried that he might be one of those characters whose storyline will be scrapped in the future, as someone above quoted GRRM as saying.

    I know his “importance” is arguable. For me he’s absolutely vital during the Siege of Riverrun, but if D&D really get down to business they will find a way to do without him. I believe it would be a sad waste, because keeping him would not be so hard, and he would be a great sounding board for Jaime, Catelyn, Robb… he could be the Roz of S2!

    I’ll repeat another of my pet theories. This series is unique because the saga is still ongoing and GRRM is working closely with D&D. It wasn’t like this with LOTR for obvious motives, it wasn’t the same with Harry Potter because JKR had her saga almost finished and the movies did not influence it, if not in small ways (she said she began imagining Ron as Rupert Grint, I think); also, I don’t believe she was all that involved in the movies, seeing how they turned out (pet peeve, yap yap).

    Instead, there’s a synergy between GOT and ASOIAF, a mutual influence. The problem is: is this a good or a bad thing? I was convinced that everything in the show was GRRM-approved. It seems I was wrong, if he says that the fate of the Blackfish is in D&D’s hands. Then there’s the problem of all the changes. As I said in the Yara thread, I think they are no big deal in themselves, it’s the accumulation that is worrisome. I too think, as someone said above, that the show and the saga will diverge, and that to lessen the gap GRRM might start eliminating storylines.

    And this would be an awful waste, because he has created such an amazing world in which every stone, tree or raven is a jewel. I’m worried that, like I suspect JKR did, he has lost control of this too-detailed world, and will have to throw away some of his jewels. If the Blackfish is among them, his life will be cut short even sooner (given that EVERYBODY dies a horrible death in ASOIAF, it is known), and this would be very sad. ADWD slightly reassured me of GRRM’s control of his world, but I haven’t read it carefully yet.

    I think we would be less worried, or at least worried with a reason, if we understood more of this behind-the-scenes mechanism. Maybe we’ve been spoiled (in the original sense) by the availability of news on practically everything through the Net, and instead I find this production remarkably close-mouthed. You can’t go back; fandoms exist and obsess about stuff. If GRRM or D&D came out regularly and say, for example, “We renamed her Yara because,” or “The Blackfish is in and/or out,” there would be less bad blood around. I’m not saying they owe us an explanation about EVERYTHING – I’m quite ready to wait for the airing of S2 to discover who Alton Lannister is – but they do know what the fans worry most about, so why not drop an explanation now and then?

    Also because sometimes it really feels like they mock us – in the case of us Blackfish fans, why remove him from the official family trees? Nobody else has had this treatment, and if I’m wrong and some other beloved character was scrapped from history this way, his/her fans have my utmost solidarity.

    And maybe we’re worrying about nothing and all will be well…

  189. Thomas
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    I too wasn’t entirely convinced that the changes to the prologue were for the best. I just re-listened to Dotrice’s reading of it and it’s a chilling scene, with the fingers closing around the throat at the end.

    My problems with the series on the whole are that it lacks scale at critical moments and the direction of some of the more dramatic moments of the book is a bit workman-like, e.g. the duel between Sandor and Gregor, the confrontation between Jaime and Ned outside the brothel, Jon vs the Wight in Mormont’s quarters. The most impressive cinematography and direction is definitely in the quieter moments rather than the action. The series feels more TV than most other HBO shows (Adams and Brothers come to mind).

    As for Tyrion getting knocked out prior to the Green Fork battle, this was the funniest moment in the entire series for me and I’ve not literally laughed out loud so much in a long time, so I didn’t mind this at all.

    Also, didn’t Cersei admit she did love Robert at first but the latter called out Lyanna on that first night which changed how she felt?
    And Sansa was a bit rude in the books, to Jeyne Poole I think.

  190. Blackfish Blues
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 6:16 am | Permalink

    clemintine,
    LOL, we were posting at the same time and with the same opinion of slurps!

  191. Elena Amici
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    Blackfish Blues,

    blackfish, i love your avatar :D
    you feeling sober now?

  192. TheAmir
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    1) Ros – ugh. I watched Sin City and had absolutely no problem at all with the number of “whores and prostitutes”. Same with Rome. But I REALLY dislike Ros just for the fact that she’s pointless and just has to be flashing something in EVERY scene. It’s actually pretty disgusting, predictable and immature. The “play with her ass” scene was just ridiculous.

    2) Needs more Hound. Come on, he’s one of the “biggest” minor characters/non-POVs for 3 books. Why cut his part and why, especially, take away the moment from Rory McCann that GOT him the part in the first place, and give it to LF

    3) Dany and the 40 man Khalasar. But I dislike Dany anyway in the books as well. Still, the whole Dothraki scenario seemed very sparse, cheaply done and really cheesy. I never once got the sense that they were a huge horde of powerful horse warriors on the prowl. They were more like a small rag-tag tribe.

    4) TV Shae is not doing it for me. They changed her character too much. She just seems bitchy and bitter.

    5) Ros.

    6) Renly and Loras – waaaaaaaaay too stereo typical. These guys were warriors. There were A LOT of gay warrior manly-men in history (Alexander the Great anyone?) who didn’t get squeamish and shave one another’s armpits. Come on HBO, really? They were badass in the books and you made them really prissy. Not cool.

    7) Yeah I’m just going to put Ros here too. Can’t express my dislike for that character enough.

  193. lyanna's_roses
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    stable boy…. need i say more

  194. lyanna's_roses
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    and yes renly and loras are supposed to be bad -ass, gay and badass not shaving each other weirdly

  195. Elena Amici
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    TheAmir: There were A LOT of gay warrior manly-men in history (Alexander the Great anyone?)

    just FYI, alexander the great WASN’T gay. Nevermind the movie. During the Ancient Greece period, having sex with you boys was just considered a cool, chic thing and almost everybody did it. This doesn’t mean that ol’Alex didn’t like girls (he got married 3 times!)

    Anyway, i agree with you. Renly is a bit too stereotypical (although i really liked his “what the hell, hero” speech to king bob), but i can’t say the same about loras. He IS SUPPOSED to be pretty and nice (and hot, i’d add)

  196. Blackfish Blues
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    Elena Amici,
    thanks, I’ll support my man to the death! (but whose?)

    Alas yes, stone cold sober… that rare time of the day…

  197. julandro
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    Ladies and gentlemen. No critiquéis both the sex scenes because the creators are able to lower it.

    Reading all the comments, it seems that the series is a great disappointment. The complaints that I have are very trivial, do not give too much importance. People love to criticize and loop the loop. The series is a marvel

  198. Dave 'KingSlayer'
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    what’s “Slavegate”?

  199. Saithkar
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    Seems like many are not a fan of the direction Shae was taken in and this is one of my few beefs. I’ve always seen Shae as similar to Sansa, in many ways she’s a lot more worldly and switched on to the brutal nature of existence, yet also her dreams of wearing jewels and attending feasts are similar to Sansa’s dreams of what King’s Landing was like before her eyes were opened. There’s an innocence in them both and that’s what Tyrion finds attractive, that they don’t play the game of thrones with every breath seems to be what he looks for in a woman, see also Tysha.

    Other than that I just missed the colour. In the books the heraldry of the knights is colourful and everpresent, in the show muted browns and blacks prevailed instead of surcoats of every hue over their armour. Ditto for the womens’ dresses and Varys’ robes. The bright colours of King’s landing are a contrast to the simpler palate of Winterfell or the unrelenting black bleakness of life at The Wall.

    Minor gripes in what was otherwise a fantastic show, but I think many people have made other points I agree with.

  200. Elena Amici
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Dave ‘KingSlayer’:
    what’s “Slavegate”?

    a discussion about slavery, racism and other “incendiary topics” (i’m quoting twp here :D)

  201. Dave 'KingSlayer'
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    “yaragate” i understood in relation to the story. So the “slavegate” has nothing to do with the story? No specific element?

  202. Jonny Harvey
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    At last someone else mentions Sansa’s betrayal, I was mentioning this on boards in due non spoiler post occurance and was beginning to get the impression i was the only one who viewed this as a major affect for Sansa’s character in the books. Yes, it’s all Sansa’s fault. The Stark ladies, legends in their own lunctimes. Of course it was alluded too I believe we have the scen where she’s upset bgging not to go then Cersie alludes to having her. all part and parcel of her Little Bird pert name. Anyways chuffed with the series, only mildy annoying this was missed, Little Fingers expose on a character much more subtle in the books and the Dothraki knitting circle of a horde.

  203. Chris
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    What happened to Ser Gregor?
    They went all the way to Australia to get this terrific, huge, menacing, powerful guy to play Gregor Clegane and then we see him for just a couple of minutes, mostly on horseback or covered up in armor. Hell, for all the exposition and screen time the character got, I could have played that role myself and i’m 5 foot 8!
    Maybe we’ll see more of him being his total homicidal raging monstrous, and HUGE, self in season 2 but… gee whiz. Here’s an actor who needs no special effects, no extra low camera angles, no stools, no CGI, none of that, to be perfect for a hugely oversized role, and they squander it! Inexplicable.

  204. Elena Amici
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    Dave ‘KingSlayer’:
    “yaragate” i understood in relation to the story. So the “slavegate” has nothing to do with the story? No specific element?

    no, it’s just a discussion about whether viewers are going to feel offended (or not) when / if HBO will introduce more stuff from the books, like:
    VERY MILD SPOILER qarthen gowns, a black girl (alayaya) being wipped, slavery, the unsullied, the summer islanders & their free love attitude, the wildlings…
    END SPOILER

  205. Claudia
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    I’ll only agree with the lack of depth in Sandor’s character. Otherwise, I don’t complain because, I’m a Potter Fan, straight from the book, true to the book and I just wish HP had been made with as much faithfullness as GoT.

  206. lyanna's_roses
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    I think them changing sansa into a bitchy teenager was badly done as well. I actually love sansa but my friends who saw the show couldn’t see why and after what I saw I couldn’t defend her, not show sansa .

    I love book sansa because she is dreamy and also because at the start she is just what that world expects of women in general, but we slowly see how she learns being that person won’t protect her and how she learns deception and to distrust people. Also her being so pure and courteous is a great juxtaposition for characters like joffery/ sandor/ tyrion/ littlefinger. Making her rude just ruins that.

    Also her being polite is more than just passivity, its her weapon, its what she makes her weapon and thats so beautiful! because she’s making part of her character an asset just like arya makes aspects of herself her weapon. I like the contrast!!

    AND.. I think wrapping sansa up in the first book like that, her being restricted not only by what septa mordane & her mother expect of her but also what she has come to want for herself is so great because I feel with each book sansa is slowing unwrapping and becoming stronger, especially SPOILER SPOILER when she assumes another idenity in later books it allows her to do things she wouldn’t expect of herself!!!!

    and her singing at blackwater isnt as innocent now with rude sansa…

    What can I say I like her

  207. Lina
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    I think all of FaB’s points are valid criticisms. I also like that we got a little bit of FaBio’s Famous Wit in the titles.

    For me, the worst changes were:

    1. Chronology (although to be fair, maybe this isn’t a story change per se, but just a condensation). I get that they have to condense the story, but the editing in several episodes for me just cheapened Westeros. It’s an expansive set of kingdoms, yet it didn’t always feel that way. If I hadn’t already had a chronology mapped out in my head from the books, I might have thought the whole first season took place over the span of a couple of weeks. And the easiest way to show the passage of time? Dany’s growing belly. But no…she never looked pregnant. :(

    2. Ros. At the beginning of the season, I was actually a proponent of Ros. I thought she would be an easy (pun fully intended) way to fill the gaps left by all the whores of Westeros that HBO just couldn’t cast. But as times went on, I realized she was way more trouble than she was worth. First, she was around too many important people and learned too much potentially valuable information. FaB’s way of putting it – that she’s sort of a whorish Forrest Gump – is the perfect way to describe Ros. Then, her inclusion also screwed with the chronology. She traveled from Westeros to King’s Landing and got a job with Littlefinger ALL IN THE TIME IT TOOK ROBERT to finish his hunting trip! And finally, some of the best “sideline” characters in Season 1 were on screen for a mere matter of minutes, and somehow, I found myself blaming Ros. Take away her scenes and give them to characters we actually care about! Couldn’t the Hound have maybe gotten more than three lines? Maybe we could see something else to characterize Loras Tyrell? JORY?! Hell, I would have even preferred to see more scenes featuring Septa Mordane, who actually turned out to be a real badass.

    3. Sansa. They changed Sansa from a dreamy, naive and “head in the clouds” type girl to someone who came across as bratty, spoiled and at times, a bit mean. I loved how Sophie Turner played her, and I actually enjoyed seeing some of the moments in which Sansa seems much more connected to reality than she does in the books (i.e. Lady or “maybe he’ll give me yours”). But part of me thinks that the change detracts from her character. In the show, I think we’ll see Sansa’s progression more of something like “you can’t always get what you want” instead of her lesson in the book, which is more so “life’s not a fairytale.” And although we don’t know how her storyline ends, I’m worried what will happen if/when Littlefinger teaches her how to play the game of thrones. I foresee book Sansa becoming a veritable “Queen in the North” type character – someone who is in tune with court intrigue but who also mirrors the sense of justice championed by her father/brother…someone we can get behind and cheer for. But with the changes to her personality, I wonder if show Sansa will be more of a mini-Cersei – manipulative, unafraid of using sex to gain power, etc. I realize I’m thinking extremely far down the road, but I thought it was still worth mentioning for the sake of the argument.

    Regardless of changes to Sansa’s overall character, I thought they should have included the scene where she betrays Ned to Cersei. It probably would have caused an insane amount of Sansa hate, but I think it’s just such a perfect example of Sansa’s innocence. It’s in a way her fall from grace. After that moment, she really starts to learn that life is not a song.

    All that said, I still think the season blew everything else on TV out of the water. Truly a masterpiece, and it’s developed such a dedicated fanbase that spans all classes of people. D&D deserve so much credit for making all of this happen. :)

  208. Anachronite
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    You forgot about making Renley the token gay guy. This was not in the books and it’s insulting they put it in just to appease a very small demographic, an even smaller demographical appeasement than when they put in token racial minorities as a part of affirmitaive action. Don’t get me wrong, what someone does or who they partner with is their business. I just think it’s wrong to make changes simpley to be politically correct. It’s shameful and a huge part of what’s wrong with the world today. Down with political correctness!

    And no I do not want to hear it was in the books, because it wasn’t. Yes he spent more on clothing than all the ladies of the court, but at the most that makes him a metrosexual. In the books he rode in tourneys and hunted, and they deleted that out to make him seem even less macho in the show. Utterly ridiculous.

    That being said I am so tired of people whining about the Blackfish. He’s a minor character of very little import. Even more so for Mya Stone mentioned above as well. Meh… why should we care about these two?

    When do we get to discuss worst casting choice? Shea takes the prize on that one!

  209. Milan Petrovic
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    julandro,

    I must admit that this thread is very disappointing. It seams that is better that they didn’t tried to make the series at all. I said before and I will say again: this is great series and none of the deviation from the book deserve so many complaints and disapproval. TV Series (or movie) is not the book and will never be able to be the same as the books are. That is true for any adaptation, including this one. To expect everything to be transfered to the screen is unrealistic, no matter how the big budget is or how many episodes they get to do.

    I would understand complains if the series is completely off, if it’s bad, but Game of Thrones is a great series that did the best possible thing to bring these books to the screen. But this, this is not right. Let’s hope that series creators or Martin don’t read this post and all these comments, it’s a shame that thread like this exists in the first place.

  210. lyanna's_roses
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    sansa as Queen in the North!! I would love that

    I also missed “life is not a song, sweetling”
    but I think the fact that Littlefinger in his whore scene mentioned how he believed in stories when he was younger was great in terms of the future for sansa but then they left out her connection with songs and stories! SO frustrating

  211. lyanna's_roses
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    sophie turner is good though, I loved her last scene!

  212. purplejilly
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Tropxe: It almost seems like she was conceived as a character in order to make the setting more believable by having her naive delusions as a juxtaposition to GRRM’s more grim and dark take on the genre.

    That’s a pretty accurate statement, I would say.

  213. purplejilly
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    lyanna’s_roses: sophie turner is good though, I loved her last scene!

    Yes, let no one think my criticism of “Sansa” is critcism of Sophie – she read the lines they gave her, and acted how they told her to. It’s not her fault that they made her go in this modern day teen- snarky girl direction. Gaaah, I get so angry because the episode when the snark and jarring dialogue is worst is the episode written by someone called Jane Espenson or something, and for my usual cry of solidarity, I would not pick on a female writer who got to pen an episode of GoT. (Yay for female writers! ) But I just hate what she did with Sansa. I guess she thought she was ‘girl powering’ her, and making her more modern, and less a silly ‘girl in waiting’, but that’s the whole point of Sansa. She’s supposed to be a silly, naive, overly polite, dreamy girl in waiting. The girl who gets the snarky, snappy dialogue is Arya! Maybe this comes from not reading the books, and writing a script?

  214. dimensionallyt
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Dave ‘KingSlayer’: what’s “Slavegate”?

    Langkard: What is slavegate?

    Ingemar Svensson: What is slavegate?

    As Elena said (gorgeous name btw), it is about incendiary topics, specifically racism, and can be found here: http://winter-is-coming.net/2011/08/nonso-anozie-cast-as-xaro-xhoan-daxos/

    Enter at your own peril!

  215. Dave 'KingSlayer'
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    i get it. thank you. seeing the unsullied is something i’m very much looking forward to…

  216. Tkovacs
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    Its funny but when I was watching the series I didn’t get the whole ‘Tower of Joy’ lack being a problem. But i just re-read the book after watching the series and I had skipped over what a major part of Ned’s makeup this is and how living with his secrets has eaten him up. And the shadow of Rhaegar also being a big part of Robert’s story and motivation.

    Now I really wonder if they carry on with the series how they will fill in the gaps in storyline?

    Also one thing that bugged me was the lack of mention/appearances or Tommen and Myrcella – viewers will be pretty puzzled when they just turn up in later series, it will feel really cheap like they got added later on.

  217. Epic knows nothing
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    purplejilly,

    I struggled to understand these complaints for some minutes. I guess it is mostly due to Sansa’s rude reaction to her father gifting her a doll in the aftermath of the death of her Lady, a scene I thought was off-balance. I thought the interaction with Arya was great (rudeness towards her little sister was perfect). Besides the interactions with her father and Arya, she does seem to believe in fairy tales, etc. I don’t think the Sansa vs daddy was bad, they did it to have contrast to her guilt as she tries to get Ned off the hook primarily and only secondarily as part of Sansa’s character–it just was too short a time to round off family brat Sansa. So I didn’t have a big problem with her in general but the doll scene and the beheading scene (a forced smile prior to confession) were really the only issues for me. One of the best scenes that was long overdue was the one with Joffrey and the Hound and the heads on pikes. All the stars were aligned in that scene (even if a little late).

    I guess another shout out about how IMO 10 episodes is not enough, and I don’t believe HBO’s “quality” argument at all. It’s just how much money they believe they should spend on the series.

  218. dimensionallyt
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    purplejilly: the episode written by someone called Jane Espenson or something,

    No! You cannot critique the great goddess Jane Espenson. She is queen of cult tv! Her GoT episode was great for women, it actually started to turn Dany around for me, from being the useless awful creature she was to the strong and powerful woman we know her to be. Her writing in that epi was great.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Espenson

  219. Yellow Dog
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Tkovacs,

    Myrcella and Tommen appear in my favorite scene of the series – Tyrion joining his family for breakfast after slapping the shit out of Joffrey. Some very nice nonverbal interaction between Tyrion and both children, and the scene follows the book almost verbatim.

  220. julandro
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Milan Petrovic,

    I totally agree with you. The creators know what they do, they are professionals and must ignore 90% of these messages.

  221. julandro
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    Constructive criticism is healthy, but I’m just observing trivial complaints. Indeed the book is the book and the series is the series.

  222. The Dragon Demands
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    The near-incomprehensible truncation of Whispering Wood is the only thing I took issue with.

    Other edits in your list I can justify. “Add more digital crowds in King’s Landing” is a good tip for season 2 but not really an outright failure in season one.

    And I understand that the actor-dogs were so difficult to work with that they actually chewed up some of the sets.

    But I had to actually explain to friends who hadn’t read the book what exactly happened at Whispering Wood.

    Again, this has nothing to do with “showing” the battle: I understand they had budget constraints. But *even in the book* they had Robb…EXPLAIN to Catelyn what happened, report it to her.

    This led to two problems:

    1 – My friends were openly confused why the Northerners like Robb so much….Whispering Wood is where he proved himself.

    2 – My friends were openly confused at why people think Jaime Lannister is dangerous…they honestly thought he was supposed to be a fop like Joffrey, who was arrogant but couldn’t actually fight!

    I had to explain to them that in Whispering Wood, even when *surrounded*, Jaime literally cut a path through dozens of Northerners trying to get to Robb and was only stopped by a human pile (when they knocked him out). That Jaime is officially, one of the top 5 warriors in all of Westeros (I mean the short list is Jaime, Barristan Selmy, Loras Tyrell, Gregor Clegane).

    They cut so much out it was confusing.

    My friends actually thought the show was going to be “Mad Men with swords” during all of the Small Council scenes, and were SHOCKED when Jaime fought Ned and people started dying.

    Clash of Kings is the heart of it, when we get hardcore battles and armies of thousands smashing into each other. Need to fix this.

    Further, the crowds in King’s Landing WILL be a plot point in season two: that they’re inundated with refugees, and they’re down to eating rats, and then the rats run out, and King Bread is their only loyalty. They need to show one of GRRM’s plot points: its not so much glorious battles as the extreme suffering and starvation this is bringing on the commoners.

  223. Jim Fischer
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Some people mentioned that Jaime was too nice of a guy. For sure he killed Jory and others. But when i read the book the first time i really hated Jaime, and that is important for season 1 imo. In the series sure Jaime was a bad guy but Joffrey and Cersei is much more of the bad guy in the TV-series.

  224. Dycelle
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    1. They showed the same Bran dream too many times
    2. They swapped Gared for Will (why?)
    3. The San/San omissions and the LF/Sansa discussion
    4. The Others were a let-down – they look like storm troopers in rags
    5. The Ros and Pycelle scene
    6. Ros and Shae

    With that said, I still love the series and am looking forward to next season.

  225. purplejilly
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    julandro: Milan Petrovic, I totally agree with you. The creators know what they do, they are professionals and must ignore 90% of these messages.

    But this board, and especially this thread, is NOT for the creators, it is for us, loyal members of House Gatewatch and followers of this blog, to talk about the things that really bothered us. The whole purpose of this thread is to let everyone have some community griping, to get it out of our system, to talk about what really bothered us, and why. There is no detail too small, no change too inconsequential, that we can’t talk about it here. This is therapy for those of us who felt very upset by the changes we saw each week. ( Those not upset by the changes are probably off playing angry birds right now, waiting for more casting news.)

    We have other threads where we go on about the positive changes. I’ve ranted many paragraphs about what a revelation Harry Lloyd was as Viserys, and how he took what was a complete jerk of a character in the books, and turned him into someone I actually understood and cared about, in the show.

    There are many very good criticisms in this thread, and people have also offered up a variety of ideas of ways they ‘could have done it differently’ that make a lot of sense. This thread is full of good suggestions, creative compromises, and good ideas that actually might help the show in future seasons. Do we expect the producers to come here and read and do exactly what we say? Well, since they are still calling Asha “Yara”, instead of the many great suggestions we gave them, I would say that’s a no.

    But fan sites like these give the people involved a sense of what the public fandom’s mood is, and what is and isn’t important. Maybe they thought the lack of direwolves in S.1 would be no big deal. But I think in no small part due to the outcry heard on fan sites, they’ve engaged a CGI company for next year that is bigger, and can specialize in ‘fur’. They know they blew it with S.1, and it looks like they are going to rectify it with better CGI in S.2. So even though this might come acorss as ‘nitpicking’, well, that’s okay, that’s what thie thread is for!

  226. lyanna's_roses
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    They need to show one of GRRM’s plot points: its not so much glorious battles as the extreme suffering and starvation this is bringing on the commoners.

    i think they are making good references to the fact thats its in part about the suffering the common people go through due to the GOT, its only the first season/book. I don’t think the books really went into that until later anyway

  227. shadallion
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    My biggest problem with the show would be solved if they quietly recast Cersei with someone with the ability to show any range in their facial expressions and tone of voice.

  228. The Winter Rose
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    In addition to my original complaints (Sansa being bitchy and not dreamy and King’s Landing looking too Mediterranian), I am totally agreeing with the following dislikes I see mentioned in the thread:

    1) Ros – Seriously, why was she in the show. Nothing aganist the actress, but the character was pointless and did not add to the story and took time away from the characters we would have actually liked to have seen more of.

    2) Shae. She is NOT Shae from the book at all. Poor portrayal of the character and did not like the tv show version one bit.

    3) No Tower of Joy flashback! I was really hoping to see that.

    4) Sympathetic-in-love-with-Robert Cersei. Why did they do this? I hated this change to the character. It changes a fundamental part of who she is in the books.

    5) Lack of wolfies. Yeah, I would have liked to have seen them around more.

  229. The Winter Rose
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    shadallion:
    My biggest problem with the show would be solved if they quietly recast Cersei with someone with the ability to show any range in their facial expressions and tone of voice.

    AGREED!

  230. julandro
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    purplejilly,

    The problem is that this post is having a very successful participation amazed. It’s a bit worrying because it means that the series was a little disappointed many people. Everything adds up and accumulate until you realize that people expected another kind of show.

    I just want to remember that the first season is just the beginning.

  231. heybuddywhatsup
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    I must admit that this thread is very disappointing. It seams that is better that they didn’t tried to make the series at all. I said before and I will say again: this is great series and none of the deviation from the book deserve so many complaints and disapproval. TV Series (or movie) is not the book and will never be able to be the same as the books are. That is true for any adaptation, including this one. To expect everything to be transfered to the screen is unrealistic, no matter how the big budget is or how many episodes they get to do.

    I would understand complains if the series is completely off, if it’s bad, but Game of Thrones is a great series that did the best possible thing to bring these books to the screen. But this, this is not right. Let’s hope that series creators or Martin don’t read this post and all these comments, it’s a shame that thread like this exists in the first place.

    I hope they do read this thread. Almost everyone who has posted has said the same thing:

    1.) Sandor
    2.) Ros
    3.) Dothraki/Renly/Sansa being a rude brat

    These are the three main things they got wrong. Being a Sandor fan myself, I’d say if I wasn’t as obsessed with the books as I am I probably wouldn’t bother watching it at all for the simple fact that one of the best characters in the book had like three lines. And they sacrificed Sandor’s character by giving his lines to LF. LF is going to get enough screentime. There was no point in doing that. Now people are going to be confused if/when Sandor starts acting like he’s supposed to in season 2. Also, they couldn’t spare 20 seconds to give Sandor a white cloak? /endrant

    No one is going to deny that the show is amazing but you don’t truly love something if you aren’t able to take criticism about it and discuss how we can make it better.

  232. Jason Snodgrass
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    This is nit picking I know, but one of my favorite scene in the book is when Bron and Tyrion are descending the Eyrie, and they have there little conversation. Tyrion ask him to help him light a fire and Bron tells him hes going to get them caught. By the end of his little speech Brons actually lighting the fire for Tyrion. I know it had some of it but I loved the way it played out in the book.

    Tower of Joy would have been great as-well, but hey maybe we get it in the DVD or better yet a Roberts Rebellion Movie! Now that HBO has started making movies of there shows.

  233. The Reader
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    The Hound not telling Sansa his story after the feast was a huge let down. It was so sad and so full of emotion, followed by the, “and if you tell anyone, I’ll kill you.” epitomizes the man – to me. Having Littlefinger whisper it to Sansa in the tourney just seemed forced.

    Another scene, that had me scratching my head was the famous “Rape” scene with Danny and Drogo. In the books it actually is quite tender. Not sure why they went the way they did.

    Lastly. After the first beheading. Ned’s talking to Bran. Bran asks if a man can be brave while he’s scared. Ned answers that it’s the only time a man can be brave. That scene is one of my favorite lines in all the books and such a good moment as Ned the Father. I was sad to see it excluded.

  234. John
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    Well it appears that all things have already but covered. So at the risk of echoing others I’ll just add my agreement to some.

    But, I can see that the direwolves are a topic most cited. I, too, would have liked to see a bit more but I understand the difficulties with including them more than we saw. The mere fact that they have the wolves in the show is slightly satisfying. Moremounts crow I can live without. It actually annoyed me in the books. And I think it may have made the tv character looks ridiculous if he always had a talking crow on his shoulder. Plus, how would they have done it? A real crow might not like sitting on some dude’s shoulder take after take and might fly off during the dialogue. Resulting in take after take. Having it sit in a cage…and crowing for corn…might also be annoying.

    Not fond of spoiled whiney Sansa. Seemed a bit more sympathetic in the books.

    Not fond of Lena’s Cersei at all. She seemed more formidable playing the queen in 300. She just appears out of her league playing a character I doubt she understands. Sometimes actors just assume they know the role by their own ingenuity when the sad fact is they could gleam much more if they just skimmed the source material. But that might be ego. Who knows. I’ve liked her in other roles. Just not this one. The part might be betond her abilities.

    I know everyone would like to see a battle. But I’m not surprised they have avoided them. I like that they had Tyrion fall and be knocked out for the battle. I could not imagine how they would have him impale and disembowel a horse with his helmet. I found it a bit fantastical in the book.

    I’d like to see the blond wigs used in the series look less like mops. Or Raggety Ann hair.

    After seeing stable boy’s death…I would have liked to see him suffer a bit more. Just as he made me suffer his acting.

    Now, about the sex. While I realize that in the time period this series is set…medieval times I guess…and they did not have deoderant, toothpaste, mouth wash, etc.. and people had lice and fleas and boils and such…I wonder, none-the-less why most of the scenes are women taken from behind. A curious observation on my part I know. But I thought the missionary position would have been discovered by medieval times. I guess just whores like Danys slave girl knew the mysteries of such matters.

    Lastly, I hope the effects for the dragons are as good as the season finale. People are going to want to see dragons just as they want to see dire-wolves. But if the effects are rushed and cheap. I’d rather see less and have good quality than more. I’m not crazy about the wolves in the Twilight movies. And that has a motion picture budget.

  235. purplejilly
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    julandro: Everything adds up and accumulate until you realize that people expected another kind of show.

    I think that’s true, we did expect another kind of show. I think we WERE disappointed by several key things. However, I think we are all still fans of the show, and we will all continue to watch and support the show, despite our disappointments from S.1 . And I know we all will hope that the show continues to get a bigger budget, so they can afford things like more episodes, and more expensive special effects. Lots of our complaints woudl be fixed with more time to tell the story, and a bigger budget for better CGI.

  236. HouseLark
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    Am I the only person who didn’t get that Cersei was changed to be in love with Robert? All I got from the TV show was that she fancied him once, in his youth and only for a brief moment.

    The added scene with Cersei and Robert was brilliant in showing a couple who are just *with* each other – no love, just duty but bound together so joined by that experience.

    I really don’t get where this “Cersei inlove” stuff came from, other than the possibility of a young, girlish crush she had on him once – the same way Sansa was in love with Joffrey or Loras even.

  237. HouseLark
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    I wonder, none-the-less why most of the scenes are women taken from behind. A curious observation on my part I know.

    It’s a domination thing probably. Or the producers think doggy is as deviant as it gets, so might be a bit risque.

    As Garth Marenghi once wrote: “They did all the positions; him on top; her on top; and doggy.”

  238. Willum's Wife
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    I loved the series, and had absolutely no nitpicks while watching it, but things that made an impression on me from the books that didn’t make it to the screen:

    1. Happy BookShae
    2. Jon’s scene with Maester Aemon talking about Sam.
    3. Handsome, charismatic Renly
    4. “It should have been you”
    5. Stone, Snow, and Sky waystations to the Eyrie.

    Still, these additions would have only served to make me more giddy, and I was already pretty giddy with what we got.

  239. Winter Is Coming
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Anachronite: You forgot about making Renley the token gay guy. This was not in the books and it’s insulting they put it in just to appease a very small demographic, an even smaller demographical appeasement than when they put in token racial minorities as a part of affirmitaive action. Don’t get me wrong, what someone does or who they partner with is their business. I just think it’s wrong to make changes simpley to be politically correct. It’s shameful and a huge part of what’s wrong with the world today. Down with political correctness!

    And no I do not want to hear it was in the books, because it wasn’t. Yes he spent more on clothing than all the ladies of the court, but at the most that makes him a metrosexual. In the books he rode in tourneys and hunted, and they deleted that out to make him seem even less macho in the show. Utterly ridiculous.

    This has to be a not-so-clever attempt at trolling, right? There is no way someone could have made it this far without knowing that Renly was actually gay in the books. I refuse to believe it.

  240. John Eberl
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    Sorry if somebody already commented on this (I didn’t read all 200+ comments above), but imho the BIGGEST MISTAKE in the HBO series is when Jon wakes up because of GHOST BARKING when the wight is going after Lord Commander Mormont in his tower. As far as I’ve noticed the ONLY time Ghost ever made any sound (barking, whining, growling, etc.) was when Jon originally discovered Ghost (and that may have only been through the psychic-connection between Jon & Ghost and not any actual sounds). If I were HBO I’d edit out the barking when they release this on DVD. Just my $.02 Overall I thought they did an excellent job with the series. The above is just an observation, not really a complaint.

  241. Michael Tschuertz
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Anachronite,

    Even GRRM say he is gay and all the little things about it are therei n the books.
    I would agree that My problem with him is his changed character which kind of makes him somewhat “gay is evil”.
    I also wonder if we will see some “Why we did that/why we changed it” on the DVD/blu ray.

  242. Daniel Moitz
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    I could repeat some of the things others have mentioned (Sandor did indeed not have enough screen time, I hope they fix that in S2 and esp. S3) but I am also concerned with little details, shortened conversations and such – the timeframe of the television episode demands many sacrifices.

    for example in ep. 9:
    Kevan: The great hairy one insisted he must have two battle-axes, heavy black steel, double-sided.
    Tyrion: Shagga likes axes.
    Tywin: [begins talking about the vanguard]

  243. Zack
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    This thread is reminding me how flawed the show really is. I can’t say I disagree with too many of the critiques at all. Why they felt the need to introduce wholly new characters such as Ros, who really aren’t all that interesting, and then exclude scenes FROM THE BOOK like Tower of Joy is beyond me. You only have so much time, I get that. So why not spend it on putting scenes from the book in the show?

    What was the benefit to giving Sandor’s explanation to Sansa to Littlefinger instead? I don’t see anything gained, just losing a key moment in the development in one of the series’ most interesting relationships.

    Or, Cersei…she’s nigh unrecognizable on TV from her book character.

    I don’t know. I’m always going to prefer books to films, I guess. Characterizations always suffer in translation. You never get all the nuance, or the proper scale.

  244. Kingthlayer
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    I can’t believe no one has mentioned this yet but: what about the friggin’ candles? GRRM does not even once describe red candles in the first book (I want textual evidence if he does) yet in the show there’s like up to 3! Do the producers know what goes into a red candle? I don’t but I’m sure that more goes into red than white and no one could possibly afford a red candle let alone 2 red candles in Westeros. Seriously, if they’re going to mess around with the candles what’s next? Maybe they’ll seriously start pissing me off and throw in a blue vase (I would totally flip if they did that). Does anyone else remember this though? That friggin’ red candle in the, um, scene…where that tall guy…I think…I swear there was a red one…damn it. Ok, maybe I was wrong about the red candles. Well then, I guess Ros was kinda lame, she didn’t really have many candles at all. She was pretty though, that counts for something.

    I’ll be here all week.

  245. purplejilly
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Kingthlayer,
    Red candles are made with the blood of fans who nitpick too much, right? They come and steal it in the night, when you are sleeping, dreaming of direwolves and huge tourney crowds. Then you dream you bump into the iron throne, and Ouch! – but that’s when they take a vial or two from you!

    Should be a lotta red candles in S. 2

  246. SA_Avenger
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    - Ros (what’s the point)
    - Pycelle sex scene (bleh)
    - Catelyn CSI scene (wtf? this was the worst “what did they do?” moment to me)
    - The boar hunt (3 people for the king hunting really?)
    - The Whore training with LF talking (useless and awkwardly long to me)
    - SanSan is REALLY missing. (like REALLY)
    - Scene where Cersei tells Joffrey that he can fuck painted whore and blablabla and Joffrey whines he doesn’t love Sansa.
    - Shae’s backstory (useless or?)
    - Renly’s poor clothes (he is supposed to be the best dressed man of Westeros)
    - Viserys not twisting Daenarys nipples he is in fact more human in the show (thx to Harry Lloyd fantastic work ofc but also of lack of bad scene)
    - No Corvus Corax in the winterfeel feest? (at least didn’t see them)
    - Osha not convinced so far (but no big deal)
    - Overall how much they give out plot info and do not do enough clifhangers surprise (as if tv viewers were more stupid than book readers).
    - Cersei not being as a slut as she is in books.
    - Sam talking about tities? really? girls scare him. (but I don’t mind really)

  247. Kingthlayer
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    purplejilly,

    I knew they were hard to make! You’re right , season 2 will burn brightly with the red candles of R’hollor!

  248. MentalPause
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    The worst thing for me was the direwolves. I think the connection between the direwolves and their Starks, especially Bran, could have been shown through usinging the direwolves’ viewpoints. Seeing, not the direwolf, but what the direwolf sees through its eyes while the particular Stark (or Jon Snow) sleeps.

    With that being said, the season was awesome just as it was. Sean Bean was robbed of an emmy nomination. Cannot wait for season 2!

  249. Chelsea
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    Obviously, like most fans, I loved the TV series and thought they did a fantastic job so I didn’t find too much to gripe over.

    Of the ones listed my least favourite change was Ros/sexposition. I don’t have any problem at all with the sex scenes within the books and I’m glad that being on HBO meant that they could keep those without censoring or watering down the adaptation, However, I thought that all these added sex scenes that didn’t serve a purpose were gratuitious and I grew sick of seeing Ros popping up everywhere.

    My biggest gripe was probably the change with Khal Drogo though. I don’t think I’m the only person who loved how Martin went against our expectations by having this seemingly savage character show gentleness on his wedding night. I missed having that sweet consensual introduction to him and Daenerys as a couple.

    Minor gripe, but I loved the line “Tell Khal Drogo he has given me the wind” and wished that had been in the TV series.

    I’ll add my name to the list of people who weren’t thrilled with Shae. She just isn’t the Shae of the books for me in appearance or attitude.

    Finally, I would have liked a mention of Lyanna/the “promise me”. I know it would be harder to convey because we can’t hear Ned’s inner thoughts on the show but I still wish it had been included.

    Overall though I’m still really thrilled with how the show turned out and how faithful it managed to be.

  250. David C
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    No Tower of Joy or “Promise me, Ned” was THE worst story change. Absolute blasphemy.

  251. Mickey
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    Well. Believe it or not, as you will, but Anachronite is not the only person who did not get that Renly was gay from the books. I’m not particularly slow – i’m actually fairly intelligent, and by the time the TV series came out, I’d read the existing 4 books 6 times, but the first time it occurred to me that he was gay was when i read something about it either here or in one of the other forums. I guess his sexuality was never something I cared about enough to notice – i don’t know – but i do know that it never crossed my mind before reading it somewhere else.

  252. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    Zack:
    This thread is reminding me how flawed the show really is. I can’t say I disagree with too many of the critiques at all. Why they felt the need to introduce wholly new characters such as Ros, who really aren’t all that interesting, and then exclude scenes FROM THE BOOK like Tower of Joy is beyond me. You only have so much time, I get that. So why not spend it on putting scenes from the book in the show?

    What was the benefit to giving Sandor’s explanation to Sansa to Littlefinger instead? I don’t see anything gained, just losing a key moment in the development in one of the series’ most interesting relationships.

    Or, Cersei…she’s nigh unrecognizable on TV from her book character.

    I don’t know. I’m always going to prefer books to films, I guess. Characterizations always suffer in translation. You never get all the nuance, or the proper scale.

    The first line of your post is why I’m beginning to dislike reading through the comments here lately. The television show, as it is, isn’t flawed because of the lack of content from the novel. It doesn’t work that way. The television showed simply failed, as an adaptation, for you. The show, as is, is incredibly well-done and better than anyone here probably had any right to expect. I almost wish they’d gone through with a theatrical release, cut down to two and a half hours. That’d really have ruined some peoples day. I guess because I was once a film major who worked on small-scale productions, I understand better the difficulty in getting even a cheap, no-budget short written, filmed, and completed. Game of Thrones, as a television show, is an excellent piece of work that doesn’t “fail” simply because it doesn’t include every tiny little detail from the story, or even because it doesn’t strictly adhere to the novel.

  253. Mickey
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    John: After seeing stable boy’s death…I would have liked to see him suffer a bit more. Just as he made me suffer his acting.

    lmfao thank you – i agree completely, and got a great belly-laugh upon reading this…

  254. Fabian Schneider
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    I agree with most things, but disagree with the battles. I actually think that nothing was lost by removing them – like the board game Diplomacy, which looks deceptively like Risk – Game of Thrones is not about the battles. They are a means to an end, and although people die and are captured and prove their mettle, Martin always portrayed the battles as essentially a muddy blur. The way the series handled them was very true to the books, in fact, as the outcome is all that matters, the battles are meaningless.

    As for the most obviously jarring change: Jaime’s attack on Ned in the streets of King’s Landing takes the crown here, especially the ending. Pycelle leaning over Ned telling him to take Milk of the Poppy was such a suspenseful way to end it in the books, but obviously was hard to translate into film. I see why they changed it to what it is in the series now, I just don’t like it nearly as much as I did the chapter in the book. Also, the sunny weather on set was far less effective than the rain and mud in the book.

    Also, Sandor and Sansa (although Littlefinger telling his story wasn’t that terrible to me) having no meaningful interaction whatsoever; and Ros – wtf?

  255. Lina
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    The Winter Rose:

    3) No Tower of Joy flashback! I was really hoping to see that.

    4) Sympathetic-in-love-with-Robert Cersei. Why did they do this? I hated this change to the character.It changes a fundamental part of who she is in the books.

    These are two that I completely forgot about that I agree with. Even if they didn’t do an actual TOJ flashback, some reference to it would have been nice. SOME reference to Lyanna/”Promise me, Ned.” Even just a woman’s voice over some blurry imagery, nothing more than a haunting memory Ned experiences while locked away in the black cells.

    And Cersei too. I get WHY they’re trying to make her more sympathetic, but TV Cersei to me seems sort of languid and meh while book cersei is basically like a crazy pot of wildfire, ready to consume and obliterate anything in her path.

  256. Blackfish Blues
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,
    He also used the W word. Definitely a troll. We Whiny Blackfishies shall wear it as a badge of honour.

  257. Epic the shtupendous
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming: This has to be a not-so-clever attempt at trolling, right? There is no way someone could have made it this far without knowing that Renly was actually gay in the books. I refuse to believe it.

    Well speaking for myself, who has only read the books once, I firmly believe that he was made gradually gay in GRRM’s mind, with the fact finally emerging by the third book. So while he was alive, Renly was not gay in the books. Call me stupid, troll, or whatever. I’m not anti-gay and I don’t care about PC or anti-PC.

  258. Clob
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    John: After seeing stable boy’s death…I would have liked to see him suffer a bit more. Just as he made me suffer his acting.

    Too bad he wasn’t north of the wall. Then there would have been a possibility of wightedness for multiple killings, including dismemberment piece by piece.

  259. Obsidian
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    I was too tired to pipe up last night when I saw this, so probably others have said it all before, by now . Nevertheless..

    FAB has identified most of what were problem areas for me , but I find it hard to put my criticisms into a top 7 format. Reading some of the early posts.. I liked the idea ( whose was it ?) of splitting them into Omissions and Alterations.

    With the Omissions (direwolves, crowds , battle scenes ) , I understood the necessity behind them , but I’m very happy to hear the assurances that they’ll be better addressed in S2 , with expanded CGI, and what have you. The recent pics of the Seven and the boat-building are really reassuring in this regard.
    While I’m feeling very hopeful , I’m still not expecting blockbuster movie standards , which is OK with me.

    The Alterations were more troublesome , particulary those that I felt changed the tone of the characters , or seemed to be made to hammer a point home to the viewers. Though many of these came out of added scenes..many of the added scenes were excellent ( see Cersei/Robert ). Of the ones that I felt were damaging , many ( but not all ) involved ..you guessed it ..Ros. But the problem was not Ros (the character ) herself , and certainly not Esme..the problem was in the writing . ( and in some cases,editing)
    The scenes that bothered me seemed to stem from 2 or 3 impulses.. 1. – To really drive home a point about a character ( Theon , LF..)… 2. – to fill HBO’s sex quota…and 3. – to make a character more like us , or like the kind of character we’re used to ( Sansa , Renly )

    So we wind up with what to me is a cardboard cut-out Littlefinger..too obviously a bad’un and apparently ,primarily a pimp ( his financial wheeling and dealing is left out entirely) which begs the question..how the hell did he get on the small council ?..That’s not the detail that should be cloaked in mystery. His interaction with Sansa ..and I don’t say he couldn’t have any..robbed the development of Sandor. So 2 characters lose out in the writing of that scene .
    Theon’s latent resentments / insecurities are brought up multiple times ..with Tyrion ,Ros ( sex bonus), Robb … and Osha , the least explicit yet most effective of all , to my mind.( excellent added scene ) The Tyrion and Osha ( or Robb and Osha ) scenes would have been enough to plant a seed. With all four it raises early doubts about his swearing to Robb as King in the North and the “Are you my brother?” really drives it over the top. I think it would have been better to see him really begin to wrestle with his demons in Pyke. When Winterfell happens I think it would be better for viewers to be saying ” I should have seen that coming ” rather than “I saw that coming way back..” We could still have seen him briefly getting it on with Ros ,or Kyra, or whoever.. .sex is important with Theon . Sex is not my objection.

    Somewhere, way upthread , I think it was Paulgude who said that if they hadn’t had Ros , it wouldn’t necessarily mean we would have seen some other things /characters that were left out. That’s probably generally true..but I can think of one case where we can point the finger of blame.It comes in the editing of Ep7 and Ep8. In 7 we have the LF/whores scene ( too long, too soft porny,too simplifying of LF). At the same time, and possibly in order to keep it in it’s entirety, the scenes of Tyrion and Bronn on the road together were bumped ahead to Ep8 in editing. This had to mess with George’s writing. We may never know exactly what he had planned for those 4 minutes or more , but since this is the episode where we have the sudden, unexplained appearance of Hodor in the Godswood , it seems logical he would have made clear that Hodor was off soaking in a pool and probably provided more interaction between Bran and Osha ( which I’m sure we would all have liked to see.)

    Did I like the show over all ? Yes, yes, a thousand times yes ! But I also hope for some improvement.

  260. Epic The Balls
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Epic the shtupendous: I firmly believe that he was made gradually gay in GRRM’s mind, with the fact finally emerging by the third book.

    By that rationale, you should be spoilering that sentence. Even though Renly’s gayness never changes a thing in the books except Loras, eventually.

  261. Winter Is Coming
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Mickey, for sure. I was in the same boat you were in; I didn’t pick up on it while reading the books, I first found out about it online.

    I just can’t believe that someone could still not know that Renly was gay in the books. This, after the show aired and a huge segment of inattentive readers cried loudly about the “change” in Renly’s character, only to be politely (in most cases) shown that it wasn’t a change. I thought by now anyone who didn’t know Renly was gay in the book had already been advised otherwise.

  262. Chris
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    In my opinion, the exclusion of the Whispering Wood and Battle of the Green Fork was the worst story change. I know their were budget issues, but they could have at least shown a little.

  263. David The Grey
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    My largest complaints were the lack of direwolves, the change up on the San-San storyline, and the change that made Sansa seem much more rude than she was in the books. The rest of the changes didn’t really bother me that greatly. Still and all, a great show. Can’t wait for S2!

  264. Ripley
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    I only have 2.

    1. When Jon Snow goes to Maester Aemon asking him to make Sam a steward early – because he could read/write, was good with the birds and to keep him safe. I saw this as the reason they decided to groom Jon for command.

    2. Sansa’s betrayal. Really should’ve been included. It was such a shocking moment in the book, would’ve been great to see on screen.

  265. Zack
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets: The first line of your post is why I’m beginning to dislike reading through the comments here lately.

    And every line of your post makes me feel like reconsidering even posting any critiques, knowing of the inevitability that someone is going to come along and act as though the show is absolutely flawless, and how dare anyone think otherwise. Such persons quick to confuse the meaning of “it’s got flaws” as though it means “It failed as an adaptation.” To me, the difference is night and day. “Ohh, it’s so difficult to make an adaptation.” Yes. Yes it is. It is difficult to make any quality program or film. Yet there are a lot of flawed films and TV shows, books and albums, that people nonetheless worked very hard on. And I, unlike you seem to, don’t believe that the mere fact that they put a lot of work into it necessarily means that the end product has no issues.

    So maybe we’re even.

  266. HandmaidenofDany
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    Remind me, when someday down the road I get my book published and it is turned into a show/movie, to NEVER EVER EVER go to a fansite! LOL

  267. Emma
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    #6 was BY FAR the most disappointing to me, considering I ship SanSan like nobody’s business. I’m pretty sure I literally shook my fist at the screen when Littlefinger started telling that story.
    Ros was one of the most irritating (not to mention random) story changes. I really don’t get what’s up with her.
    But SanSan! I’m still steaming over that omission.

  268. DocBean
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    How about putting a belly on Dany?
    For the love of God she was supposed to be about 9 months along at the end when the baby started coming. She didn’t look even a little bit pregnant. People that didn’t read the books would have assumed she was losing that baby. People that read the book thought we’d see him when reading it.

    It would have shown time passing by as well, which the show did a really bad job at. Most people keep asking me what they’re going to do about the kids getting older and I have to explain to them a lot of time passes by in the books.

  269. Obsidian
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    HouseLark,

    You weren’t alone in your observation.;) My sister , who was not a reader before the show, commented early on in the series , ” Gee, haven’t they heard of the missionary position ? ” It gave us a good chuckle and we decided it could only mean there could have been no “Quest For Fire” scenario in the prehistory of Westeros.

  270. DocBean
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    the blind girl,

    there was no kiss. Sansa imagined that.

  271. Someone ep.7
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Littlefinger’s brothel scene is one of the greatest moments in the whole show, I mean actually guys, if you read the books and you know what a crazyshit badass Petyr Baelish really is, you can also lend him your ears for three minutes and have a great foreshadowing about his character and his motivations. And of course he would talk about himself in front of whores, especially a new one who just came in from Winterfell and one that doesn’t even speak the Common Tongue. He is a narcissist, and narcissists like to hear themselves talk…

    Same about Shae. The TV Shae is just more interesting than the book Shae, and Tyrion as someone who always wants to understand, always wants to look behind, is way more realistic being fascinated of this mysterious foreign woman than in a shy and soft little mouse, like in the books.

    The only thing I was concerned about is Dany’s wedding night, the first time I read the book that was the very moment it caught me, and in the series they just messed it up and turned it into raping stuff.

  272. Sijjvra
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Elena Amici,

    Gay or bi-sexual at best actually. Rulers are EXPECTED to get married and produce offspring no matter what they actually prefer as a partner. Old Richard the Lionhearted is another example. *shrug*

  273. Ripley
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    I hadn’t read the books before watching season, afterwards I couldn’t stand the thought of waiting so long for next season so I started reading them (am now waiting very anxiously for the arrival of latest book). Only thing that bothered me is how different the Hound’s demeanor is from the books, on the few occasions we see him he seems… nice! The only time we glimpse the Hound ala the books is when he comes for Sansa (“Who do you think sent me”) but at that point the scene seems really out of character for what we’ve seen of the show Hound… so out of character that I didn’t realize until I watched the episode again that it had been the Hound, since this person was way more menacing than the big friendly guy that talked to Sansa about Ilan Payne in a very non-mocking fashion!

  274. Brian
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    The lead-up to the beheading scene. So they just go on a leisurely stroll thru the hills on foot?

    They should have been on horseback. Visually much stronger. The juxtapositon of Bran on his pony with his father on his warhorse; Jon and Robbs brotherly competition as they race back to the bridge. A lot of missed opportunities to establish characters and setting there.

    Bran’s first chapter is so iconic… the way they cut corners there was pretty jarring. Honestly, none of the alterations here were improvements.

    They really butchered Littlefinger IMO… He’s not Snidely Whiplash. The producers need to read this description. I like the actor and he’s certainly capable of making the role his own, but there’s room for improvement there.

    Cersei is another one… but in this case I think it’s simply a matter of getting her more screen time. We don’t get inside her head enough to know where she’s coming from.

    More wolves. Bigger wolves. And make them scarier!!! Get George Lucas to retro-fit them via CGI :)

  275. Ekleipsis
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    Kingthlayer:
    I can’t believe no one has mentioned this yet but: what about the friggin’ candles? GRRM does not even once describe red candles in the first book (I want textual evidence if he does) yet in the show there’s like up to 3! Do the producers know what goes into a red candle? I don’t but I’m sure that more goes into red than white and no one could possibly afford a red candle let alone 2 red candles in Westeros. Seriously, if they’re going to mess around with the candles what’s next? Maybe they’ll seriously start pissing me off and throw in a blue vase (I would totally flip if they did that). Does anyone else remember this though? That friggin’ red candle in the, um, scene…where that tall guy…I think…I swear there was a red one…damn it. Ok, maybe I was wrong about the red candles. Well then, I guess Ros was kinda lame, she didn’t really have many candles at all. She was pretty though, that counts for something.

    I’ll be here all week.

    This is seriously the best post in this long long conversation.

    So many whiny little people around, for a moment I thought I was browsing World of Warcraft forums.

  276. Jeremy Jenkins
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    How about the fact there was NO comet!!!!

  277. Dan
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    Jeremy Jenkins,

    The comet comes in book two. It wasn’t in the first book.

  278. Mark Garrigus
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

    Jerry Glonek,

    I think the point is not long term Dance of Dragons stuff, but Season 2 Clash of Kings. Tyrion being Hand, writes a letter, seals it and gives it to Pycelle and tells him not to open it, then shortly after Cersei comes around and has knowledge of the letter. Tyrion throws him in the dungeon and shaves his beard. Up to that point on the show, Pycelle was expertly portrayed as a shaking old man so the scene foreshadows Pycelle being more than just a dottering old fool.

  279. Mark Garrigus
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    Dan,

    The comet was in the first book, Danerys takes them as a sign that she was on the right path putting the witch on the pyre

  280. Mark Garrigus
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    Someone ep.7,

    Got to disagree about the TV Shae. I see about zero chemistry from TV Shae and Tyrion while in the book, they seemed to be a sweetness and general strong concern about Shae’s welfare. In the show, Tyrion is just like, well you’re my woman of the week, I’ll take you along just to piss of my dad rather than any real connection

  281. tysnow
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 12:21 am | Permalink

    My seven in no particular order, are…..

    1.) Extended brothel sexposition scene, I actually like Ros’s other scenes, but this one was too distracting and I didn’t pay attention to LF enough, only on the second viewing.
    2.) Not enough Direwolves, they could have at least shown them in the background.
    3.) Bring back the Errol Flynn Renly please, I don’t like the sissified version.
    4.) Not epic enough scope, they need more crowds, seeping vistas and cool orchestral scores.
    5.) Need more Sansa/Sandor prelude to OMG psuedo romance (even if its imaginary).
    6.) More time dedicated to Cersei, Catlyn and Castle Black storylines.
    7.) I want the most epic battle ever seen in a regular tv series, afterall we know except for Fist (much smaller than Blackwater), there isn’t really any epic battle till apparently WoW. Most of the fighting is more intimate from then on.

  282. Lala
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    Where is the red comet after Dany hatched her dragons? Are the producers trying to tell us that Dany is not AA/TPtwP? :O (good riddance, I say). It IS kind of significant.

    Also, no prophecy regarding womb quickening…

  283. Pastor_of_Muppets`
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 4:07 am | Permalink

    Zack: And everyline of your post makes me feel like reconsidering even posting any critiques, knowing of the inevitability that someone is going to come along and act as though the show is absolutely flawless, and how dare anyone think otherwise. Such persons quick to confuse the meaning of “it’s got flaws” as though it means “It failed as an adaptation.” To me, the difference is night and day. “Ohh, it’s so difficult to make an adaptation.” Yes. Yes it is. It is difficult to make any quality program or film. Yet there are a lot of flawed films and TV shows, books and albums, that people nonetheless worked very hard on. And I, unlike you seem to, don’t believe that the mere fact that they put a lot of work into it necessarily means that the end product has no issues.

    So maybe we’re even.

    You seem to have completely and utterly missed my point. I never said that this adaptation was perfect, nor did I imply it. You started by saying that you’re beginning to realize how flawed the show is, then you went through a list of things that the show does differently than the book. I get that that’s what most people here are doing, and I could do that myself, but those things don’t really count as “flaws”, as they pertain to anything other than the show as an adaptation. Not as a show. If they have another article where we can talk about how the show (as a show) fails, I’ll be sure to list out more than just seven things (most of them just as minor and inconsequential as what’s being posted in a lot of these comments).

  284. Baron Braunschweiger
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 5:55 am | Permalink

    I would rank the Whispering Wood/Battle of the Green Fork as the greatest disappointment. I was very displeased with what they did to the Green Fork, but at least I understood that they’d skip it. The two things that bugged me the most about that is that we were showed the mountain clansmen killing Stark soldiers in the trailer, which led me to believe we would get to see it after all, and then spit in our faces when it turned out that was in truth all there was. And the fact that they made it a tiny force, and thus making Tywin look an idiot was just plain unnecessary. As for the Whisepring Wood, when that was skipped as well, I was truly disappointed. I cannot understand why we didn’t at least get to see (hear) it on the same grounds we did from Catelyn’s view in the book.

    Secondly, the Tourney of the Hand comes to mind. Not only wast he crowd tiny, and the whole thing looked like something a lesser noble might have staged, but we saw a grand total of three competitors. I can understand that much of the action was cut, but it was way too much in my opinion. They might well have given us the glorious entrance parade, and mentions of the various tilts and so on. Having the Hound just stand there and then being named champion, while not even partaking as viewers not familiar with the book would likely see it, just seemed unnecessary.

    Other than that, I would have liked to see more of both Cleganes, switching the Renly/Loras scene for the Sansa/Sandor one in the books would have been a good call in my opinion, as the former two’s relationship was more than obvious enough from their looks at the tourney and Renly and Littlefinger’s wee chat during it.

    And I was displeased to see Waymar Royce not given a fighting chance.

  285. Cleever12
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 6:59 am | Permalink

    Besides all what was told, even the missing scenes because of budget, my biggest regret is one scene that I think would had been useful to the neophytes : The scene were Maester Luwin tales to Bran the Story of the Children of the Forest, the arrival of the First Men, then the Andals… It’s like THE scene that explain almost everything in a background matter.
    I would prefere that in the last episode for example, in replacement of Pycelle’s scene in King’s Landing…
    Beside that, 100% agree with the article :)

  286. Brad
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets`: Not as a show.

    I respectfully disagree. I think the constructive criticisms people are posting here do reflect on the quality of the show, not just the quality of adaptation. Really I think the two are inseparable. It all boils down to the choices the showrunners have made based on constraints and their own story-telling goals, whatever they may be. It is apparent from interviews and the show itself that they do intend to add their own characters and twists to the books.

    My biggest disappointments came from changes made to characters.

    Tyrion – TV Tyrion is pompous and conveys his wits & education in a very ostentatious way. Book Tyrion was much more subtle and had a much, much wider range of emotion and experience. His book scenes oftentimes conveyed poignant absurdity, situations of outrageous fortune. None of that depth was on the TV screen for me. He was too much of an insider in HBO’s adaptation — a lordly, pampered Lannister that just happened to be short — and not nearly enough of an outcast that makes his way by his wits. THESE reasons are why I wish they had made some effort to accurately adapt the Battle of Green Fork. It is the single best example of the life-like randomness / chaos that makes Westeros better than your garden variety fantasy series.

    Sansa – I have no idea why they changed her character completely. Book Sansa was an amazing combination of naivety and innocence. All in contrast with the Hound. None of that was on the screen. Her final scenes with Joff were great, but the 8 or 9 episodes prior to that were very, very 1-note (angsty teen) for TV Sansa.

    The recent casting news gives me cause to expect similar character changes in season 2.

    If they had allowed these characters to be themselves, I would not be disturbed by the budget-related changes at all. But all in combination results in a quality north of True Blood, but south of The Wire, Deadwood, Sopranos, etc.

    Yes, I really had hoped HBO would make an adaptation with the complexity of character and tone as the Sopranos. The source material is there for it.

  287. Zack
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets`: You seem to have completely and utterly missed my point. I never said that this adaptation was perfect, nor did I imply it. You started by saying that you’re beginning to realize how flawed the show is, then you went through a list of things that the show does differently than the book. I get that that’s what most people here are doing, and I could do that myself, but those things don’t really count as “flaws”, as they pertain to anything other than the show as an adaptation. Not as a show. If they have another article where we can talk about how the show (as a show) fails, I’ll be sure to list out more than just seven things (most of them just as minor and inconsequential as what’s being posted in a lot of these comments).

    As was requested, people are pointing out what they see as poor decisions in altering the telling of the story for the television medium. If we think the show would have been stronger to stick to the source in an aspect, why, that’s stated in FaB’s post as the very reason for the thread. So I guess I’m just not sure why you’d bother reading a thread for the discussion of our least favorite changes, if it’s only going to annoy you that people do as they’re asked.

    You need to understand that most of us here are not saying the show ISN’T incredibly good, or that it failed as an adaptation of the material. That’s where I took umbrage with your previous post. It was a misreading of what I was saying. The show is certainly better than it might have been. But neither ‘good’ nor ‘great’ are ‘perfect.’ ‘Perfect’ is rarely achieved in any medium. We were simply sharing views on what might have been done differently (and what can be done differently in future seasons) to slide the show further toward that nearly unattainable goal. To pretend that the show was flawless to avoid hurting the feelings of those involved is to basically resign oneself to the same types of (for the most part, small, in the grand scheme of it) mistakes being repeated for future seasons.

  288. Dante Sweatt Jr
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    I got no beef with Roz. She kept to herself, stayed in the background while the real story went on. She was clearly helping to foreshadow Theon’s eventual creepy awfulness in Season 2, and as long as her involvement in the show stays pretty much on this level, I’ll be cool with it.

    I wonder if HBO and the showrunners didn’t write Roz to maybe humanize the prostitution industry in Westeros. Hookers are treated like trash in the books. Human cattle of no importance. I could definitely see various special interest groups raging if they hadn’t tried to soften the blow a bit. Normally, I’m against capitulating to special interests groups, but I think whoever had this idea deserves bonus points for finding a way to be P/C with breasts. Smart thinking.

  289. Dan M
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    I generally don’t like topics like this, because even when they’re started in the “we all love the show, we’re just consciously nitpicking” spirit, they have a tendency to graduate to genuine negativity.

    I wasn’t really bothered with any of the narrative changes, since I can understand the reasons for all of them, dramatic and otherwise. I think the only thing I found lacking were the people in King’s Landing. The streets just seemed deserted at times.

    One thing I get really tired of hearing is that “there was no reason for it.” It’s never true. No decision made in production is without reason. You may disagree with the reason, but that doesn’t negate its existence.

    Ned and Jaime fighting during the day? Night shoots are several times more expensive, require a shift in the schedule, and it’s possible they couldn’t get the right permits in Malta.

    Ros? Well, there are multiple minor prostitute characters throughout the story, but combining them into one means you don’t have to pay more than one speaking actor.

    Sandor’s story being told by Littlefinger? It was near the end of the episode and making the transition to Sandor taking Sansa back to the keep very likely would have killed the pacing, and would have been awkward to explain. What reason would there have been for Sandor to escort her back?

    In a production like this, hundreds of decisions are made every single day. On a good day, ten to twenty of those might not be painful to make.

    There is always a reason.

  290. Lana
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    DibuK,

    I agree with you completely, especially as regards the criminal misrepresentation of Sansa Stark – I absolutely hate what they’ve done to her character, and Sophie Turner’s portrayal of her is maddening. Also, and I realise how strange this will sound to some, I thought the scene of Bran discovering the Lannister twins in their incest was dreadfully done. True, they are practitioners of extremely deviant sexual conduct and as such are worthy of no sympathy, but the image of Jaime mounting Cersei as if they were nothing more than a pair of lions in heat was absolutely galling, especially since his love for her (twisted though it might be) is such a shaping force in his life and an essential one to our understanding many and more of his past, present and future actions.

  291. paulgude
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    Obsidian,

    My thought is that if there were no Ros, you’d still have the sexposition. It’d just be a scene with Littlefinger and two unnamed whores. The editing issue you discuss would still take place.

    I think the only two real additions would be the turnip cart and the insertion of Ros in Jon’s story. Both of those for me are just a warping between the worlds of the book and TV, and I can take them in stride.

    I won’d begrudge anyone their Ros-dislike. I know it’s widespread. She doesn’t bother me, though, and there are worse things I can think of than watching Esmé Bianco on screen.

  292. Obsidian
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    paulgude,

    Actually , I agree..I could probably have made my critique clearer. I have trouble in listing or categorizing things that are really intertwined..;)

    I don’t object to the creation of Ros ( from the outset ,when they first hinted at her character and how it would be used, I thought it was a nifty solution to some foreseeable problems ). I understand it from the financial aspect and the aspect of avoiding cluttering up the show with too many nameless whores. Nor do I object to Esme, who is very easy on the eye , and did well with the dialogue she was given .

    Dang! I have to walk my dogs ( a couple of Dire-ShihTzus )..I’ll come back to finish this.

  293. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    You know why the Lord of the Rings movies sucked? Tom Bombadil.

  294. Mirax
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Mark Garrigus,

    Ok, I realize that sometimes it is hard to decide whether or not something is a spoiler and should be blocked, but I guaranty that if you’re explaining something from anything other than the first book, it needs to be spoiler-blocked!!! Even if you don’t think it’s a huge plot point, it should still be blocked.

  295. Obsidian
    Posted August 6, 2011 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    paulgude,

    As I was saying …

    I actually have a couple of favourite Ros scenes..Tyrion ( sans sound effects ), and Pycelle ( though maybe it would have fit better early in S2 ) .. and one I feel ambivalent about ..I mean, she was fetching and cheeky in the turnip cart scene , and it fit , because once you have a Ros, you need to explain how she turns up in KL. Did it work better than just having her show up a bit travel weary, looking for work ? Not sure…

    So that leaves the 2 with Theon and Littlefinger which I disliked intensely, especially LF, primarily because I felt they were big , heavy-handed reveals about those characters . We know too much about them , too soon. I feel that these are real alterations..in the books we’re still much more suspicious about LF but not exactly sure why,or to what degree we should be…and Theon ? We really should have no idea of the depth or importance of his resentment at this stage IMO.

    Consequently, I can only see the actual sex in these scenes as being gratuitous.. a feeling that is accentuated by the length of the scenes. Since they didn’t serve the story for me , but belaboured what had already been hinted at, I can’t fully buy that the reasoning behind them was to add needed depth to Theon and LF … rather than ” How can we work in a full frontal male shot , and some lengthy and explicit-as-we-dare lesbian action ?”

    I don’t mind the idea of occasional sexposition , but the season left me feeling that it was seen as the one-size-fits-all solution to a lot of problems. It was overused to the point that it became not only a joke, but a tired one. So I think that will lessen the effectiveness of any future use.

    I know that Martin and D&D feel that sex is an integral part of the story and important in fleshing out the world.( Excuse pun)… And so do I. But these scenes felt contrived , which to me is not a good thing.

    I’m sure the people involved are self -critical enough to ruthlessly evaluate the first season before embarking on the next, so I hope for some ..I don’t know what ..refinement?…subtlety ?..in these areas. Don’t give away too much and always leave them wanting more. ;)

    And on a more fun note… If it’s Ros in the scene where Tyrion surprises Pycelle , that could be pretty hilarious.

  296. Blackfish Blues
    Posted August 7, 2011 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    I understand the comments about threads like this being depressing. I once went to lunch with a sizeable group of friends after a collective vision of “Return of the King”. They all had liked it, but they all had a complaint of their own. After hearing 10 people expressing their complaints, I almost hated the movie.

    Same phenomenon here. We each have our own specific complaints, but the accumulation can be overwhelming. So maybe one comes here to praise Roz and is disappointed by the number of negative comments about her, and begins to change his/her mind…

    Well, don’t! If you feel there’s too much negativity about the stuff you love, counter it with positivity. It’s true the title is “Worst story changes”, but nobody stops us from praising the story changes and the characters we like. At least, I try to make this my approach to negativity. Sometimes I can’t follow my own advice.

    Another consideration: I believe we are so passionate in listing what we believe is wrong because we know the authors lurk here, on Twitter, on the various boards. Deep down we feel that if we make our voices heard, we could sway them. Unfortunately our passionate opinions are just too many to be ALL considered… if ever they consider any of them (lack of communication, pet peeve, blah blah blah).

  297. purplejilly
    Posted August 7, 2011 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    I think this thread is a wonderful purging tool, a S. 1 colonic, have you, where we can get one final grump out about everything that did not please us, and it will clear the pallet and make us ready for the Feast that will be S. 2! I am so excited that it looks like books are merging together in search of a compact, thirlling storyline. Everytime I get too depressed, I just scroll down a thread or two and see Tom W. again, and think “OMG – what really awesome scenes am I going to see this man in?” I can’t wait..

    But I think for the people who are bothered by this thread, just let it go, and the people who still need to get more out of their system, just keep on letting it roll! Get it all out, and let’s get ready for a fresh start for S.2!

  298. Tom Hilton
    Posted August 7, 2011 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    “Firefly wasn’t perfect”????

    That’s it. You’re dead to me.

    ;-)

  299. andrea
    Posted August 7, 2011 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    I think negative comments are not malicious or mean… they are are simply negative (and negative is not always a bad thing). There is no elegant way to write about what you do not like. It sounds bad, I´ll give you that and it is also true that everything starts to pile up and feel worse but this thread is made for that, to talk about what we did not like. I do not see “evil” there.
    I love GoT warts and all. It’s like loving someone, you can see the flaws but keep loving it anyway. I really don´t see the harm.
    Don´t draw your swords at us… there are no monsters to kill here. We all love this story. Complaining does not mean that we loved (and I say loved not just liked) the show less than those who don´t have complains whatsoever. If someone wants to defend Ross or TV´s Cersei or the lack of Blackfish, it´s fine by me…Insults is the only thing I may not understand.
    >

  300. MasterKat
    Posted August 7, 2011 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    David Moore,

    I don’t worry about that too much. George R.R. Martin is actively involved with the show and the GoT creators are very respectful of the source material. I highly suspect they are super fanboys. Moreover, a large part of the most active fan base (the people who will buy the DVD box sets for each season and subscribe to HBO for the sole purpose of seeing one of their favorite books brought to life) will revolt should that happen. I know I plan on buying at least one box set for myself and then foisting a few box sets on friends and family members who took one look at a 1000 page book and decided it wasn’t worth the time commitment.

  301. Andrea
    Posted August 8, 2011 at 12:13 am | Permalink

    I totally agree with the #1. The show totally could have used more scenes with the dire wolves in them. They are such an integral part of the characters in the book. I absolutely loved the scenes they were in. They def need to add more of them in season 2. Maybe send them to doggie boarding school or something…

  302. Andrea
    Posted August 8, 2011 at 12:13 am | Permalink

    Tom Hilton,

    lol.

  303. Slynt
    Posted August 8, 2011 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    Though I enjoyed the TV show, there is a lot of wasted opportunity, sadly. In fact it’s hard to know where to begin.
    I agree with all the nitpicks that have been mentioned. The things that hurt the most are those things where I feel it would have been easy for the crew to stay closer to the original story, but for some reason, just didn’t. Like changing Renly Baratheon’s character, or Osha’s.

  304. Christian Delbove
    Posted August 8, 2011 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    The change I hate the most was Drogo basically raping Dany at their wedding… Totally WTF change

  305. Sid
    Posted August 8, 2011 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    Still cant stop laughing about Clementin’s “Boom! Slurp! Slurp! Slurp!”. That made my day.

    I think the series was great! My only nitpick is excessive sexposition. It got old REAL fast. Although I certainly appreciate nice T&A, that much (and gratuituos) sex, felt a bit awkward to watch with friends…

  306. OldGran
    Posted August 8, 2011 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    I have not posted on this topic before because I agree with much of the comments as already stated. And I get that the book is not the TV show and the show is not the book, yada, yada, yada. I get it. There will be changes in the story for good reasons.
    However, there are a couple of changes that grate.. one of them is the Moon Door in the floor. I know they redesigned the Throne Roon at the Eyrie and I loved the scenes with Tyrion. I was happily shocked to see they went with the breast feeding scene. (You’ve never seen that on TV before) But I don’t see any reason to put the MD in the floor. You loose that ominous rattle in the wind.
    The other “change” is the too early reveal of the Loras/Renly relationship. They went from so book subtle that many missed it entirely ,Rainbow Guard notwithstanding, to TV blatant with Littlefinger making loud crude remarks at the tourney. so out of character for him. If he knew, and he most likely did know, he would have tucked that bit of info to use to his own advantage at a later date. Then the manscaping scene, while not bad for what is was, but it was way too soon in the season(s). They lost all sexual tension and mystery and opportunity for the audience to “catch on”. Renly’s sexual orientation makes no difference to King Renly. As King he would marry Margaery and fill the Red Keep with lot’s of Baratheon heirs, and keep his brother-in-law Loras near-by.
    Could be that 10 episodes was not enough to be a little more subtle, but I think they missed an opportunity that could have been fun.

  307. Mike
    Posted August 8, 2011 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    First off I had never really known about “Game of Thrones” before and wasn’t too excited about it at all. I felt like HBO was digging up some sort of second class Lord of the Rings with old Boromir to boot. Boy was I wrong, I loved it more than anything I’ve watched in a while and I do my utmost to only watch the best stuff out there.

    It also compelled me to start reading fiction again and I immediately picked up the books and just finished Game of Thrones. I do think we are all nitpicking a bit but I do agree with most of these, however a few other things bugged me more.

    1) Dany’s wedding night: The whole thing played out like a fairly rugged rape. It also aired the same night the Borgia’s also had a very rugged “arranged marriage rape.” Did HBO change the scene thinking we’re hungry for extra rape scenes? Do they check in with Showtime to get a rape quota? I have no problem with graphic content but this seemed thrown in arbitrarily.

    2) The Renly chest shaving scene: I think this was included for the same reason Roz and the girl on girl Littlefinger scene was. Most cable shows have at least one scene a show with dudes kissing. I get that Renly’s eventual relationship with the Knight of flowers is important but this also felt hamfisted and modernized and thrown in for some kind of forced demographic appeal.

    3) Isn’t Cat supposed to be really beautiful?: I know they aged the characters a bit but it was hard for me to connect to Littlefingers obsession with her or her role as a real beauty that men would fight over. She was still supposed to be able to have kids and was meant to be in her young 30s, the actress is 46. Good actress, certainly not ugly but eh.

    4) Wolves: I know this has been mentioned before. I want more wolves too BUT I wasn’t digging the CGI dragons at the end. Did anyone check out those horrendous CGI Twlight wolves? Lord have mercy…I love me some real wolves and LOVED every moment with the real wolves from this season. Yes I want more but CGI has a tendency to ruin so much out there and I really loved the “human” and real feel of the whole production.

  308. TikiGawd
    Posted August 9, 2011 at 3:22 am | Permalink

    The dire wolves better look like freakin dire wolves in Season 2.

    Sandor needs some umpf. He was just too nice in S1…

  309. Udi
    Posted August 9, 2011 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Milan Petrovic,

    There are two reasons I can think of to post “complaints”:
    1) To get them off our minds, our chests or any other place they lurk and are giving us a hard time
    2) As the poster says: Maybe, just maybe (miracles, miracles), someone out there with the production crew will take into account the biggest dissapointment/s and actually make amends in season 2 and (hope, hope, dream) seasons beyond…

  310. Tyrionfan
    Posted August 9, 2011 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    It is rare when a book can completely translate to film; all in all, HBO did a fine job with the 1st season. Considering how the author must paint a picture in a readers mind versus how a picture is worth a thousand words translates into a difficult task and the producers did a better job than most similar. The added gratuitous sex (Ros and her partner) was a waste of budget, mostly because the author provided plenty of other well written fodder to draw in the HBO-viewer-needs-sex crowd. The one allowance I would completely offer the series is that to find someone who can act, that also is a direct match for appearance is a difficult task. Brienne of Tarth is written as “freakish” big – lets not hold HBO to some unattainable standards in looks (though not a free card, Renly plays “gay” from the first time we see him in the series, the book, he is the Baratheon with looks and charm and I’m on FFC and he’s still not outted). What great fun both book and series – Well done, GRRM! And well done, HBO!

  311. Adriane
    Posted August 9, 2011 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Milan Petrovic,
    Perfectly said. I am a fan of the book and the show. I agree with what you said
    100%! The show did great and definetly did not disappoint me at all. The show is working very closely with GRRM. Next season is when all the big battles should occur so that would be the time to critique the show on battle scenes. GRRM writing is brilliant and the show it’s creators and actors are brilliant as well. I can’t wait til next season!!

  312. John
    Posted August 9, 2011 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Pretty good list overall, and I agree with a lot of it. I agree that the missing Blackfish was weird, though I think they can still work him into future seasons (same with Roose Bolton, who I can’t see how they could leave him out). I do really like his character. And while many of the scenes with Ros were annoying, I didn’t necessarily hate her (I could have done without seeing a full frontal Theon, however). The sexposition in general was way over the top, especially the infamous girl-on-girl scene (which was irritating because it distracted from some important dialogue). I didn’t necessarily mind the change from night to day, and I actually think the TV version of Jaime and Ned was better than the book (which ended with Ned’s leg being broken when his horse fell on him) because of the awesome sword fight that wasn’t in the book. And I agree that Renly, Sandor and Berristan also suffered from reduced roles. I don’t think that crippled any of their characters, but it still would have been nice to have The Hound tell his harrowing tale to Sansa instead of Littlefinger doing it, to have Berristan at the council meetings (I assume the reason he wasn’t there was so they wouldn’t have to pay the actor more) and to have more Renly charming the crowds scenes. I particularly missed him making fun of Joffrey for being beaten by a girl after the Arya/Nymeria thing.

    Anyway, I do have three main complaints. The first is the most minor but also extremely irritating because there was no reason for it whatsoever. And that is Jorah stealing Rakharo’s “Blood of my blood” line. Rakharo was standing RIGHT BEHIND HIM too. What was the point of that? Again, this isn’t a huge deal, but it annoyed the hell out of me because it was completely unnecessary. Second, there was the complete personality transformation of Shae. While in the book she is somewhat helpless and in need of Tyrion’s protection, here she is irritating and obnoxious. This really bothered me because there are lots of strong women in the series (some we’ve already met like Cersei and Arya and some we haven’t), so the somewhat cliched damsel in distress that Shae represents is actually not cliched in this series. I actually really liked the book’s version of Shae, and I hated the TV version. And given her eventual fate, this will change how the audience reacts to it. While her story ends tragically in the book with Tyrion strangling the life out of the woman he cared for but had abandoned him during his time of need, I think that when her time comes in the TV series, I’m actually going to be rooting for her demise. I honestly think they could kill her off now, and I wouldn’t object.What a shame. Finally, there was the complete lack of the Battle of the Whispering Wood. And yes, I know it wasn’t really shown in the book either, but that was a major missed opportunity to do something that surpassed the book. I don’t have a problem with Tyrion getting knocked out (though I do have a problem with the promos making it look like a major battle was going to be shown) because that battle wasn’t particularly important, as it was merely a diversion. But the Battle of the Whispering Wood was really important, and given how cool it seemed from the book’s description (Grey Wind running amok, Jaime furiously cutting his way toward Robb before eventually being subdued), I was furious that they didn’t show it at all. I know there were budgetary reasons, but I don’t care. Cut out some of those scenes with Ros or Shae and get it done.

  313. Steve
    Posted August 11, 2011 at 4:03 am | Permalink

    Ros is there for main characters to speak out loud to, replacing an internal dialogue.

  314. Gay for Cersei
    Posted May 8, 2012 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    I mostly agree with Milan Petrovic except for the fact that, for all they omit and consolidate, they have added seemingly superfluous scenes. For example, I understand that they use Ros to convey certain ideals and perhaps also to instill some empathy in us for the common whore/peasant/underling, but still.

    That and the following quote:

    Milan Petrovic: It’s easy to watch and than complain about every little detail. I am amazed how much they managed to include wolves at all so far….

    Yikes! Sir, the dire wolves are far, far too integral to the story for you to be amazed at their inclusion. I am amazed at your amazement.


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