Is the Trout out?

They probably could just cut Jojen and Meera Reed and replace them with a couple crow dreams and Osha and Rickon, and the show itself wouldn’t lose much. But what about Howland Reed? Sure, we’ve never met him, but even offscreen he seems awfully important to the backstory and the larger plot. How on earth would they introduce him later if his relatives and all the flashbacks were cut and there’s nobody to talk about the knight of the laughing tree?

If the Tully ARE cut from seaon 2, I hope we at least get some mention (kind of like Stannis in season 1). Other than building up character developement for the Event-that-must-not-be-named, they don’t really affect season 2′s plot. Cutting them outright though seems problematic. Edmure especially. If they set up this season like we’re going to meet them later, I think i’m okay with it. If not…I’m worried about that butterfly affect.

I haven’t read ADWD yet, so my response might be irrelevant, but…

I can see them cutting out Jojen and Meera, but in doing so we could lose a lot of character development from Bran. So much of Bran’s story takes place inside his mind, and up until Jojen and Meera come to Winterfell he is a very internal character, hence why we don’t see much of him in the first season. Jojen and Meera teach Bran so much about himself. Also, I can’t imagine Bran, Hodor and Summer going north of the wall by themselves….

I will be very disappointed if they remove the Tullys and Riverrun. There is a lot that happens with that family, and it’s not easy to make Robb’s story work without them. It would be the first major variance from the series, cutting out an entire major family. I understand not spending much time at Riverrun and avoiding a big set, but for crying out loud how much does an establishing shot cost? Once that’s done any stone room will do for Hoster and Cat and if they want to show Jaime trying to escape it can’t be that hard to shoot a hallway or stable from new angles. Edmure is young enough that you can probably get a cheap actor to play him, and you need to cast him anyways given books 3 and 4; Hoster is a tiny role and probably in 2 episodes. The Blackfish could be introduced along with Roose in a scene with the Greatjon. The bigger issue is running time, but you can’t just ignore one of the 8 great families, it’d be like cutting out the Queen of Thorns!

Edmure would be a strange loss. They’d have to think of some other way to get Robb and his host to the Twins in order to have the Red Wedding take place. We’d also lose the sub-plot where Jaime uses Edmure in order to get Riverrun to surrender without having to storm it.

I like the Blackfish, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s cut. He’s an awesome minor character in the books who only directly appears in view in a handful of Catelyn chapters (plus a great Jaime chapter).

The loss of Jojen and Meera would feel wrong. Who would form Bran’s group going up into the North to meet the Three-Eyed Crow and the Children of the Forest? I suppose they could have them pop up in Season Three, but it would feel like a huge plot device.

@Shannon

They probably could just cut Jojen and Meera Reed and replace them with a couple crow dreams and Osha and Rickon, and the show itself wouldn’t lose much

You would have plot issues in Seasons 3 and onward, since Meera and Jojen are two of the four members of Bran’s group. You can’t have him go northward just with Hodor.

I think they’ll at least need Edmure. His role is too integral later on. The question is whether pointedly mentioning him for an eventual S3 introduction (ala Stannis, for whom it works fine) will be enough to avoid the character seemingly appearing out of nowhere. I personally don’t think so. Better to get him in audience’s minds early. Blackfish, Hoster, Pod, they aren’t necessary, in which case it becomes a question of whether they are such strong personalities that not having them would remove a lot of colour from the story (maybe Pod fits this).

As for the Reeds, I’m still on the fence. Maybe they can combine the two. I think they’re actually less important for future storylines north of the wall and more important for Bran’s story right now. He needs an arc and other characters to play off and while, ostensibly, that’s the wolf and crow dreams (a role Osha could fill), he needs an externalized story too. A lot of that is his alienation courtesy of the Freys (who are also borderline for inclusion) and acceptance with the Reeds.

That said, some people need to come to grips with the fact that some major changes/omissions are gonna happen. That’s just the nature of adaptation. We all love the books but some perspective is nice. Realizing that changes are going to have to be made doesn’t make you a HBO lackey or less of a fan, it just makes you realistic.

Shannon,

Yeah, but Bran and Hodor braving the land Beyond the Wall by themselves seems a little ridiculous.

something witty,

Not going to go anywhere near as far as you, but i do get the sense that WIC and other site runners here try to ‘spin’ everything in a positive light. Kind of like the glass is always ‘half full’ thing. Sometimes that bothers me because when it comes down to it, you got to start calling a spade a spade. Not all the changes are OK, and its ok to call the showrunners out on it.

No riverrun, no Jojen and Meera. How can anyone possible try to excuse this.

I don’t know, I think Season 3 would be a bit too late to introduce the Tullys.

Besides, in A Clash of Kings Catelyn spends a lot of time away from Robb – while he’s on the battlefield, she’s in Riverrun. They can’t have her sit on the open, they need to come up with some sort of headquarters for Robb’s forces anyway.
Besides, Jaime needs to be imprisoned somewhere, you can’t have him tied on a pole the whole time, that would be ridiculous.

Removing Riverrun altogether doesn’t make sense even in the show-verse, since they explicably said that if they break Jaime’s siege, the river lords would join them; even if we forget about faithfulness to the books, it makes no sense logically and logistically for Robb not to take a strong castle as his headquarters. Especially since this castle is freshly freed and its masters have a strong blood tie to Robb and Catelyn.

I can live without Hoster, but Edmure and the Blackfish are kinda important. Certainly, they are way more important than Roz, but we got plenty of her in Season 1. Removing the Tullys sounds like those “butterfly effect”-type of changes of which I’ve heard GRRM speak in a few recent interviews (like Drogo killing Mago or Marillion’s tongue being cut out). Edmure is needed for the Red Wedding, and the Blackfish is needed for Jaime’s second siege on Riverrun. It would be stupid to change those events by introducing other characters to fill their roles.

I think that someone is playing a prank on us… or is trying to mislead the book fans. Why? Because it was unnecessary to kill Mago or Marillion (both could have been some other characters, original to the tv show).

The idea is that both producers are fans of the books and know them weal so I believe that they have a strong plan and clear storyboard at least till the Traumatic-Event-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named (that’s where they said they wanted to get with the series to be happy, or so I’ve seen in an interview).

First and foremost, give me a good TV show. The quality of season 1 was fantastic. If you have a problem seperating book from show and vice-versa, that is entirely your problem, not mine.

The process of adapting from one medium to another while taking in to account differences in audiences is a difficult and arduous process and will never, ever please everyone. I think HBO are doing their best to maintain the spirit of the original story while creating a realistic narrative for TV.

Or I could be totally wrong and they’re making desicions to entirely annoy the likes of Nimble Dick while snorting cocaine from the backs of colombian slave-boys

Meera and Jojen are the biggest problem: I just do not see Bran & Hodor wondering around North by themselves.
One can combine Osha in it, with Osha and Rickon departing elsewhere somwhere near the Wall.
This could work, but it seems weird to me.

Another big problem is Edmure - the dinamics that leads to certain wedding would be ruined and one has to wed someone else but who?
I just do not see another candidate for that role.

The White Bullshit:
This is exactly the kind of changers that will likely ruin the show. They are too god damn eager to make changes all over the place. Character development? Pffft. Awesome badass characters? No, don’t need ‘em. Stupid, unnecessary changes? Hell yeah!

They have an AWFUL lot of ground to cover. Stuff has to be sacrificed. What stuff? They already cut quite a bit from season 1, and book 2 is longer, so it’s not going to be as close.

Dammit, I want Pod. We need someone to blame.

Sorry if I’m being stupid, but blame for what????

I have no problem cutting the Tullys in s2 (and Aeron for that matter) and introduce them in in s3 (or s 4 respectively). They already have a huge cast.

A lot of them probably with a multi-year contract which doesn’t come cheap. And they already hired Natalia Dormer as a regular so to bind her to the show for more seasons to come. They obviously can’t afford it for every talent whose character pops up here and there in the earlier books and has a pivotal moment in the later books. GOT has a big budget but its still limited, so limiting the amounts of seasons a character appears in is a cheap and save option to assure schedule conflicts won’t happen along the way.

Reading the books simultaneously to the TV series seems to have its tolls, I could’ve sworn they did show Edmure at some point, even with a mental image of his general appearance. I also earlier thought they had shown the Blackfish, but I mistook the Greatjon for him. Weird…

Seems clear they’re fleshing out the Margaery/Renly, Robb/Jeyne plotlines for S2, so something has to give and maybe Riverrun/Tullys are it.

Personally I found many of the Riverrun/Tully scenes dull or annoying and often both, so on the one hand the omission doesn’t bother me, but on the other hand I can see the logic on not leaving the introduction of Edmure too late if we want the RW to have the desired impact.So far as I can recall, the only thing of note that Edmure does in ACOK is screw up Robb’s plan to trap Tywin, by making that ill judged sortie against the Mountain.

I actually quite like the idea of not showing some stuff featured directly in the books whilst showing other stuff only alluded to in the books, as I think that’s a nice way of staying faithful to the story, whilst making the show a different experience, so I’d be all for the expansion of the Robb/Jeyne and Renly/Margaery plots. By the same token however, I’d have liked to see Jaime’s escape attempt on screen and you can’t do that without Riverrun :( Escaping from some nameless fort somewhere just wouldn’t be the same.

I suppose the real message is that with something as complex as ASOIAF nobody can win all the time.

As for Pod, I hope not, but I’d say he’s cut, since he didn’t appear at the appointed time in S1. I’d say Big and Little Walder are out for the same reason, or they would have been mentioned when Catelyn came back from the Twins. I’d have a bad feeling about cutting the Reeds on account of who their father is and what he might have told them – I just have this hunch that Meera knows all and will impart the relevant backstory when the time is right.

i hope we’re going to get Pod, just for the fact that there are some great lines in the books and it would give Tyrion a really nice character (and an excuse) to bounce off some witty remarks.

Also, the show should get a Riverrun. In the least, it serves to suggest the actual scale of things. Just replacing the scenes and characthers in and around Riverrun with some nameless/generic holdfasts and soldier-like-personaes (or giving the lines to someones else …) would not serve in pushing home the real grand -and dare I say continental- scale of events.

I think we should also get the Reeds.
1st and foremost, same argument as before, the true scope of things. Other characters know and do just as much or even more than the POV characters, their only fault is that they are not POVcharacters.

Also, Bran can’t make heads or tails of what is going on with him and the world around him, and in the books the Reeds are intrumental in guiding Bran’s transformation as well as his journey. I also got this faint whiff of a feeling that Bran might perceive Meera Reed as a bit more than just a travel companion. Anyone else with me on this one? :D

Oh, and i think the Reeds are incredibly important to the the development of Bran’s character and to S2.

Edmure we can do without, for now, but we need the Reeds… ooh thats got a nice ring to it! ;-D

also, i think S2 is going to air a little earlier this year.

Actually, i’m kinda sure HBO is going to air GOT earlier this year.

First, because airing GoT in april pushes True Blood ‘s schedule.
Second, because there is no Big Love this year. Boardwalk empire airs from september, 25th to December, 11th (12 weeks) after that, there is nothing to air. big love is over, entournage is over, BE, How To Make It in America and Hung all premiere in the fall. I think they’re probably going to re-air true blood. If they start, for example, on january 8, it’s another 12 weeks til March, 25th.
So, i think HBO will air GoT the week after that, on april 1st :)

Thoughts?

Charles,

Exactly.

There has been a disturbing trend among the fan community as well. People have been very eager in trying to come up with the niftiest way to make a cut, trying to outdo each other in servility. Why not try to come up with a nifty way to make a SAVE, o would-be fan? Madness…

Winter Is Coming,

OMG what is happening here, we have come a long way from arguing that the wrong eyecolor or no bells in braids would ruin the show. Now there is talk about cutting second tier characters and ommiting mayor locations and I get the feeling that this is fine by the mayority??? They even ask TPTB to cut merciless, WTF???

I call the banners of House Gatewatch, Nitpickers and Purists assemble, don’ t let this Cutgate go unpunished!!!

Blackfish Blues: Back (am on a boat) to say BLOODYGATE!

THIS.IS.EPIC.
the bloodyGate!

Chris77,

well, the bellygate was about something *doable*. it’s impossible made a show out of the latter books

Blackfish Blues: Scenario 1: no Edmure. Robb himself is the one who gets spoilered at the Spoilery Spoiler. This would imply that Robb spoilers with Spoiler Spoilerling but doesn’t spoiler her.

Scenario 2 (the worst): no Reeds. We’ve already noticed a lack of ToJ and “Promise me Ned”. What if there were no Howland, no revelations, no R+L=J, Osha takes all the kids, Jon is indeed Ned’s bastard and is spoilered FOR REAL in ADWD?

This second scenario would imply either that GRRM has a completely different view of his saga than most fans suspecte, or is turning it upside down to follow the direction HBO is taking.

scenario 1: Robb spoilers with Sopilering Spoiler BUT he is also the one who get Spoiled at the Spoiler Spoiler? (lol) possible, but it looks weird to me.
scenario 2: if R+L =J, then it’s going to be the same in the show. D&D already know it. IMO, the lack of promise me ned scenes is because there are just TOO MANY promise me scenes in AGOT and not at all in the following books. They give away the R+L too soon (AGOT was planned to be the 1st book of a triology). Since there are no POV on the show, they can put those scenes whenever they want to.

GRRM has stated that he’s not going to change the story for sake of the show, and D&D seems keen to make the show as faithful as they can. (Lucky for me, my favorite minor characters all are in season 3. I only hope they’re not going to cut BOTH mance rayder or Tormund. I’m going to be the next blackfish if they do that!)

PS: if jon does indeed get spoiled in dance.. well, i don’t think this is the case. If he doesn’t get spoiled, but the show is going to change that, i’ll pull a blackfish whose equal the world has never seen (dramatic tone here.)

Okay, I don’t get it. What’s the difference in introducing characters in season 3 instead of in season 2?

Is it too many new characters for one season? This would imply they have to split the new characters into two seasons; otherwise, they would only postpone their problem into a later season. If that’s the case, it could look that way:

Season 2: Introduction of Baratheons (Stannis, Mel…)
Season 3: Introduction of Tullys (Edmund, Hoster, Blackfish).

Actually, I think this could work; on the other hand, it might be better if they wouldn’t have to introduce the Tullys at such a late point. RW would work better if the audience is familiar with these characters for more than a few episodes, plus they could really focus on that particular event in season 3, instead of being bothered of rushing through the introduction of the involved characters.

I have not read all the posts but just want to say——I don’t mind them cutting out characters, even ones I like. Look, I’d rather have a TV series that has good character development rather than just a half-second scene of every single character from the book. Yes, I think the Tully’s are important to the story and hope they are introduced at some point, but if they have a better idea of how to work around introducing them, I’m keeping my mind open. This is a TV series not a book. Changes have to be made.

I can live without Pod, Blackfish, Hoster, Jojen or Meera (I honestly think one of them needs to be present).

Money can’t possible be an issue for cutting the Reads since they will be young actors. No reason to cut the storyline out at all what is Bran going to do without the Reeds?! Maybe they have been cast but are just complete unknowns and haven’t been mentioned yet?

Moving Tully storylines to season 3 could work and would spare a lot of money and give us more time with Robb and Tyrell so i don’t mind it to much, you can not cut them out all together though. And it would seem odd. I mean Tully is a rather important house in the war so why not pay them a visit right?

It is very possible that HBO doesn’t plan to do all 7 books of ASoIaF, that mean that they can change many things we have seen in book. We allready saw some changes in season 1 that complicates later on events. (bard…) Just one thing i don’t get is why they create new characters with high min timer per episode, and delete some from book. Yes, am talking about whore Rose. (she is hot, she is nice, but her role is pointless) And now i have seen some Alton Lannister, who the hell is he?
It is ok if they are gonna cut Riverrun and Tully’s in S2, but i aspect them to show Wildling army and battle of Blackwater. If they cut both, it is big fail for me.

I don’t get why we need someOne known to save Tyrion at Blackwater. Couldn’t anyone do it? Couldn’t it be someone offscreen or unknown? I don’t see that being someone recognizable as being important.

Draxus Lannister:
It is very possible that HBO doesn’t plan to do all 7 books of ASoIaF, that mean that they can change many things we have seen in book. We allready saw some changes in season 1 that complicates later on events. (bard…) Just one thing i don’t get is why they create new characters with high min timer per episode, and delete some from book. Yes, am talking about whore Rose. (she is hot, she is nice, but her role is pointless) And now i have seensome Alton Lannister, who the hell is he?
It is ok if they are gonna cut Riverrun and Tully’s in S2, but i aspect them to show Wildling army and battle of Blackwater. If they cut both, it is big fail for me.

they ARE going to show the blackwater. HBO needed rose. HBO needs sex. Not all the viewers are asoiaf fans…
Alton lanniste could be pod, as far as we know.
And i’m kinda tired of people complaining about that dothraki guy killed by drogo. It’s a nameless dothraki guy, for the audience. If they need him later, they can simply replace him with another random dothraki guy, and nobody is going to notice the difference (and nobody is going to care about that storyline, IMO)
The singer can easily be replaced by another random singer (IMO, he’s not even needed, they can blame a guard or someone else)
IF they’ll start changing the story for real, like: robb is not going to be spoiled at the spoilering spoiler (blackfish, i’m shamelessly coping you here) because richard madden is hot; elimination of sansa’s SPOILER because she’s a teen and so on, we can blackfish all together. But not before

Athelstan:
1) Edmure and the Blackfish are both still alive (as far as we know) at the end of ADWD and GRRM may well have something in store for
them in forthcoming books.
2)I also think that the Reeds are important for other readons as well. Greywater Watch is one of the possible locations that I think that Davos Seaworth could turn up in to find Rickon Stark. (Rickon & Orsha did travel south from Winterfell when Bran etc went north).
Stark

1)actually, they aren’t important. The blackfish surely isn’t. Cool, yeah, but not important. Edmure is going to Casterly Rock as a captive. He could only be important as a POV, to show us what’s going on there, but since there aren’t PV on the show they could just use somebody else – or cut that part. I’ve a feelings that all the post-storm storylines that don’t involve major characters are going to be cut. TOO MUCH.

2)If you’ve read dance (if you know about davos you probably did) you’ll know where rickon is. And it’s not greywater watch

Kalasin,

bronn :)

EDIT: Jillian,

did i? lol, actually i did it here, but i can’t see it on my previous post. Anyway.. what? and no reaction to “whose equal the world has never seen?” i was trying to be dramatic!! lol

ps: blackfish, don’t get me wrong. you’re a role model now. Like, my new idol

I think we all have to prepare ourselves for the fact that this adaptation sadly won’t stay as close to the books as it was in S1. I only hope it won’t go to True Blood levels of disregard for the source material.

Sawyer:
Okay, I don’t get it. What’s the difference in introducing characters in season 3 instead of in season 2?

Besides the creative reason also money. Let’s assume they cast Jason Flemying as Edmure now. He may just appear in 2 or 3 eps. Not that expensive. But they need to make sure he’ll come back in 2012 or beyond. So they either a) make him a regular like Natalie Dormer b) give him some other financial incentive to clear his schedule next year or c) gamble and hope he doesn’t get a lead role in a tv series or theatre play or other parts that are much more lucrative than the relatively small role of Edmure Tully.

There are already so many roles that are small in the beginning but are of importance later (played by busy actors like David Bradley, Roger Allam and of course Charles Dance) that they probably take every chance they can get to squeeze their appearences in as few seasons as it is creatively possible. Or create multiple characters that serve the function that one character had troughout the book (like Marillions, Pods and maybe priests of the Drowned God), so they don’t depend on the availability of one specific actor.

Alexander Dubrovsky,

well, the true blood books aren’t a great reading xD

I think we all have to prepare ourselves for the fact that this adaptation sadly won’t stay as close to the books as it was in S1. I only hope it won’t go to True Blood levels of disregard for the source material.

Elena Amici:
Alexander Dubrovsky,

well, the true blood books aren’t a great reading xD

Yeah, they are Shakespeare, but they are fun and easy read. I enjoyed them more than I enjoy the series …

I don’t care if he’s important or not, BUT I WANT BLACKFISH. And the Reeds. And Edmure. And Pod. Oh, well. Wouldn’t be too bad if they cut out Hoster though. That’d mean a couple of good scenes for Michelle Fairley, yes, and would explain part of Lysa’s psycho behaviour, but I mean, is that really important for the series? I think I could live with him being cut, as well as the Blackfish (if it’s like, REALLY necessary). If it really need be, the Reeds, too. I’d rather see Robb’s & Jeyne’s “first meeting” (chrchrchr) and their wedding and stuff, things we’re only told about in the books, and much later on. I mean, they marry in ACOK and we only get to know it about 200 pages into ASOS. Or, e.g. finally a battle. Grrr.

Still think it’s going to be rrrrreally hard to make the next books in only one season, the 1book=1season system might not work anymore. Only if they add a couple of eps per season, 12 or 13 eps (I’d love that for sure). And AFFC and ADWD are going to be mixed up anyway, I think. Like, half of AFFC&half of ADWD=S4, other halves=S5, to keep the chronological order. Anything else would be too complicated for TV and every-season-one-year-apart-thing.

Well, I think I’ll just trust D&D. Worked out fine for S1 and will work out for the next seasons, too, … I hope.

Josh Atreides,

Liam Cunningham isn’t ending up that high on the list, and charles dance isn’t in the main cast. I’m also expecting Natalie Dormer a little down, and alfie up. (does it make sense? boh)

The credit in S1 went like this: (addy & llyod aren’t in the list)
Sean Bean
Michelle Fairley
Nicolaj Coster-Waldau
Lena Headey
Emilia Clarke
Ian Glein
Aidan Gillen
Kit Harington, Richard Madden
Sophie Turner, Maisie Williams
Alfie Allen, Isaac Hempstead-Wright, Jack Gleeson, Rory McCann

and Peter Dinklage.

My guess for s2

Michelle Fairley
Stephen Dillane
Emilia Clarke*
Lena Headey, Nicolaj Coster-Waldau*
Ian Glein (1), Aidan Gillen (1), Liam Cunningham
Kit Harington, Richard Madden, Alfie Allen,
Sophie Turner, Maisie Williams, Gwendoline Christie
Alfie Allen, Isaac Hempstead-Wright, Natalie Dormer
Jack Gleeson, Rory McCann

with Carise Van Houten
and Peter Dinklage.

*because Emilia Clarke is way popularnow, and NCW hasn’t much to do this season.
(1) I’m not sure about Gillen & Glein. They have such a big role too. I think they were that high on the list in s1 because a lot of the main actors were too young/completely unknown. Now that both Richard Madden & KH have become more famous, i can see them getting a higher position jumping above G&G

The fact that we’re talkiing about the opening credits is a measure of how bored we are. Well, at least i am… i don’t know how the situation is there, but here is too hot to do anything

Jillian: Elena Amici, Kudos for using Blackfish as a kind-of verb. It made my morning.

Now, whenever someone is wrongly cut out of an adaptation, I am going to say they were “Blackfished”. It is known!

Josh Parker:
cyloncaprica,

Um…James Gandolfini’s face was very much shown in the Sopranos opening credits.

Big Love also shows the faces of Paxton and his three wives.

Also, only Oz, Carnivale and Treme listed the credits ONLY in alphabetical order. Even other ensemble shows like The Wire or Deadwood placed some of the more prominent/better known cast members first, or gave them an “and” credit (on a side note, I LOVE “and” credits and I don’t know why).

Oh, your right about Big Love. But we only saw the back of Tony Sopranos head. Never his face in the opening credits. At least in the early seasons. Don’t know later.

I have in idea, in season one last episode “fire and blood” and unnamed character says the following ” i will have peace on those terms, they can keep their red keep” that was when greatjon said that Robb should be the king in the north.

now, clearly that character is rickard karstark, he was not named though, and the actor who plays him i do not recognize sadly, however, it worked, i think they could have named him, and it worked, they can do the same with blackfish, and lord hoster, put them in the scenes were they make a difference to the story and the plot, and assign non famous actors, at least just put them in this way .

i know that blackfish have a role later on, but still, no need for high profile actor, any good actor can fill the role if he has the intensity to portray the blackfish.

cyloncaprica,

From the first season on, we see shots of his eyes, his mouth (while blowing cigar smoke), etc. until he gets home. Then the camera focuses squarely on his face for a few seconds as he gets out of the car, and then the title card flashes.

I can see actualy ‘seeing’ Riverrun further down the line. However it presents some problems with the Jaime/Brienne ‘escape’. The Reeds however are more necessary. I suppose they could be combined to one character but that may prove to be a problem futher down the line depending on what happens in future books.

Wildling,

we ARE going to see robb’s plotline in s2. RM is in the main cast, after all.
cyloncaprica,

yes, but that BE opening is just GREAT.
purplejilly,
so we are: pull a blackfish: complaining about your character being MIA (i fell like i’m going to do this A LOT)
blackfished: character deleted
to blackfish/ blackfishing: to pull a blackfish
Like: “if mance rayed gets blackfished, i’m totally going to blackfish!”

i told you, BB, you’re my new idol. kudos!

Josh Parker,
no, they don’t want to end there. D&D said they have already planned how the series is going to end (they KNOW HOW!! Argh)
When Benjoff (i think it was him) said something among the lines of “if we get to the RW, i can think about retiring” i thought he meant “if we get that far, the show will be a success”.

I think there are get arounds they can go with.

Is n ever-heard-of-before Alton Lannister an amalgamation of two characters, Pod being one of them?

Edmure and the Blackfish could be merged into one character. Still make him Cat’s brother, but maybe not as useless as Edmure. That way he’s still heir to Riverrun, still Robb’s advisor during the fighting. That way he can still be offered up to the Freys to amend Robb’s marrying Jayne and the events of the Red Wedding can still play out.

Riverrun can be left in the hands of a castellan (like the Karstarks did with Karhold) and it can be him Jamie treats with for the surrender of the castle. It makes more sense a castellan surrendering than a senior member of a major house. I understand why Blackfish did it but it never seemed to sit with his character well.

The Reeds I feel can be disposed of. Sure I understand Bran needs someone other than Hoder and Summer to go north with. But lets be honest once north of the Wall all the Reeds did was get cold

Phil,

No, you cannot just “get rid” of the Reeds. Maybe they didn’t do much in ADwD, but that would be like saying we don’t need Brienne because all she does in ADwD is show up to lead Jaime into an ambush. They are important to the plots of books 2 and 3.

Paco,

paco, this is completely out topic, but i just saw your picture AND your last tweet.
I’ll start using that phrase now. Can I? asthenosphere FTW!!

Elena Amici,

hahaha did i even use those terms right? I was kinda worried that I was making an ass of myself (and tbh im still not entirely convinced i didnt) i just kinda went on wikipedia and gave myself a really quick, 5-minute crash course refresher on plates tectonics LOL with that said, you can use it and reuse it to your hearts content =’D

it makes me happy to see my stupid made-up-on-the-spot sayings making other ppl happy lol

Now on Dad’s pay-per-minute connection and alien computer. Am stressed. Tully Zen says: OK with Tullys in S3, makes sense. Still I’d rather have Tullys at the end of S2.

Elena Amici: purplejilly,so we are: pull a blackfish: complaining about your character being MIA (i fell like i’m going to do this A LOT)blackfished: character deletedto blackfish/ blackfishing: to pull a blackfishLike: “if mance rayed gets blackfished, i’m totally going to blackfish!”i told you, BB, you’re my new idol. kudos!

Perfect! This way it’s both active and passive. I’ll totally blackfish HBO if they have blackfished my Blackfish!

Phil: I think there are get arounds they can go with.(…)Edmure and the Blackfish could be merged into one character. Still make him Cat’s brother, but maybe not as useless as Edmure. That way he’s still heir to Riverrun, still Robb’s advisor during the fighting. That way he can still be offered up to the Freys to amend Robb’s marrying Jayne and the events of the Red Wedding can still play out.(…)

OK, but… why not then call him Edmure and just give him a stronger personality? If they make him marry by force and call him Brynden, I’ll blackfish their collective a$$.

Athelstan:

Athelstan,Apologies for terrible grammar! That’s what I get for posting from my iPhone on a train.

Try from a boat!!! Seriously, welcome to the site. :D

Firass Bouz,
Thank you, sir. Of course I have no idea what you’re talking about, sir. PS: they’ve told me the name of the actor playing Karstark a few threads ago, but I forgot. I’ll repost it when I can, or maybe if someone else can it would be welcome. I’m still looking for the name of the actress playing Maege.

I vote this as Most Entertaining Thread of the Summer.

What about our other favorite squire, Wex, who does important stuff in book five, making his appearance in book two? I love Wex and Pod. They’re some of my favorite characters. I want ‘em in there. Want? Nay, NEED!

Blackfish Blues:
Perfect! This way it’s both active and passive.

EXACTLY! isn’t this great?

Blackfish Blues:
OK, but… why not then call him Edmure and just give him a stronger personality? If they make him marry by force and call him Brynden, I’ll blackfish their collective a$$.

yeah, i think that’s what’s they’re going to do. i guess

I vote this as Most Entertaining Thread of the Summer.

Lela,

they’re NOT going to cast wex this season. you know that

SAVE PODRICK PAYNE :(

Charles: something witty,

Not going to go anywhere near as far as you, but i do get the sense that WIC and other site runners here try to ‘spin’ everything in a positive light. Kind of like the glass is always ‘half full’ thing. Sometimes that bothers me because when it comes down to it, you got to start calling a spade a spade. Not all the changes are OK, and its ok to call the showrunners out on it.

No riverrun, no Jojen and Meera. How can anyone possible try to excuse this.

Butterfly effect? I am thinking about a dragon, a big fucking dragon effect if they cut Riverrun, Blackfish, Edmure, Jojen and Meera… WTF?

OK, but… why not then call him Edmure and just give him a stronger personality? If they make him marry by force and call him Brynden, I’ll blackfish their collective a$$.

They could call him either, or call him Edden, or Brynmure…

What I meant was by combining the two they only have to hire one actor. With the money they saved they can visualise Riverrun better than they did the Eyrie.

Lela,

I think the chance of Wex appearing is quite slim, they could have anyone tell Lord Manderley and Davos where Rickon is. To be honest when he appeared in ADwD i didn’t even remember who he was.

Now Pod is a character i’d like to have in the show but it could be done without him, he doesn’t directly affect anything in the books (that i can remember) except saving Tyrion at Blackwater but they could just have Bronn do that.

Elena Amici,

I’m on board with co-opting Blackfish as a verb, but reckon there are enough characters MIA that you shouldn’t have to saddle one name with two different meanings. You and Jilly have proposed two dictionary entries for blackfish: the film-makers’ sin (deleting a character), and the loyal fan’s response to it. The use of Blackfish that rang most true to me was the latter as in your “I’ll pull a Blackfish”. As you pointed out, not strictly verbage, but “blackfishing” would be, and does just as good a job at expressing disgust, disappointment, furious anger… whatever you’re having. However, when it comes to designating a word for the deletion itself, surely there are enough characters MIA that the two concepts don’t have to share the same name?

“Gah! I can’t believed they tullied my favourite character!”

Don’t even have to stick with GOT, there are enough examples of this elsewhere:

“The best scene in the book was bombadilled!”

Possible refinements include a word for a situation in which a character isn’t entirely deleted but has their contribution drastically reduced:

“They totally shaggydogged the direwolves in Season 1″ (yeah, I realise that’s kind of a circular reference. If this was Excel I probably wouldn’t be able to post it. But it kinda works.)

Mark Wilson,

so, are you proposing to use the verb “blackfish” and not the participle “blackfished”? i actually like “tullied” a lot?

Fellow bottom-supporters, what do you think?

EDIT: this post feels like a black hole. Is growing more and more because of its own mass, and it’s actually made of nothing u.u

Josh Parker,

I don’t know (LOL at this argument…we are bored!) but Stephen Dillane is a big name and I am willing to bet he will be in lead for the cast as well as Van Houten and Dormer. Remember Dormer is incredibly popular with the epic drama audience due to the Tudors, she will be bringing allot of the unsullied Female viewers from Season 1 with her. Dillane has marquis power and is playing an important character in the series who will be featured from then on. He is also portraying a character that was built up incredibly last season. New viewers are eager to see the other Baratheon brother and why everyone wants anyone but him on the throne. One can gauge this just from reading the TWOP Unspoiled Speculation Forums (a great place to waste time as I love reading their reactions to the story and biting my tongue as they make wrong assumptions…).
Just to add: I am willing to agree that Van Houten may be left for the end credits like Charles Dance and Jason Momoa. Then again, Van Houten’s has bit of international rep since Black Book so…

And this may sound sexist but Michelle Fairley will not be the first billed name. Just my guess.

Nicolaj-Coster Waldau
Stephen Dillane
Michelle Fairley
Lena Headey

Emilia Clarke
Natalie Dormer
Aiden Gillen
Iain Glen
Kit Harrington
Richard Madden
Sophie Turner
Maisie Williams
Alfie Allen
Gwendoline Christie
Jack Gleeson
Rory McCann

with Carise Van Houten

and Peter Dinklage

Another possibility….

Kit Harrington
Emilia Clarke
Nicolaj Coster-Waldau
etc…

Khal Zhen:
I guess it all comes down to the main narrative of known season 1 characters vs new plots/locations.Would you like a spectacular Blackwater and CGI beasties orso-so with a shot of Riverrun and possibly other locations over the sea?Sure, we want it all, but when it comes to sacrifices, I think a book 2 Riverrun is reasonable.

yeah..because those battle scenes worked out so well for us in season 1. to do a proper battle scene on this scale you would have to cut out the budget for half the families in westeros. so i doubt the 5-6 second view of riverun is going to take away whatever is left of the “battle” budget.

Nicholas Burns:
First and foremost, give me a good TV show. The quality of season 1 was fantastic. If you have a problem seperating book from show and vice-versa, that is entirely your problem, not mine.

we’re not talking about jaime’s hair being slightly brown or dany’s eye’s not being purple. we’re talking about an entire family that effects the story in significant ways being cut. i’ve yet to see a reasonable argument against having the tulley’s in the tv show.

Elena Amici,

Analogy with black hole is good. Sucking in folks that were just passing by, with every intention of moving on. How can something with so little substance have so much pull? Gotta go and do some work now… if… I… can…

Am I the only one that thinks “Rock out with your trout out!!” every single time they come into this post? No? Just me? Aaaaaaaaaaaalrighty, then.

Am I the only one that doesn’t care about the Reeds? Bran’s big story in S2 is intertwined with Theon anyways. All him and Rickon need to do is act as props until their escape.

I figure Osha can replace the Reeds almost entirely. It’s not like Bran will ever end up with Meera anyways.

Josh Atreides,

Well, I’ve never known HBO to say “So-and-so’s a big star! His name simply must be higher-placed!” I mean, this is the network that cast Luke Perry, at the height of his 90210 fame, in with all the other minor regulars, alphabetically billed. For that matter, Academy Award nominee and LOTR star Brad Dourif apparently doesn’t rate higher than Jim Beaver or Kim Dickens.

Also, Dillane is not a marquis star. Check the IMDb page for GoT and you’ll see post after post of “I’ve never heard of Dillane…” or some variant of that. On this very blog a few people expressed irritation that Stannis was being played by “a nobody”.

My point is they’re not gonna start manipulating the credits to the degree that you seem to think they will. For the most part, I’m pretty sure they’ll keep the order they had in the first season and tack on the names of the new players at the end.

For that matter, it doesn’t necessarily follow that all “big name” actors will unquestionably be in the opening credits. Jason Momoa, Julian Glover, James Cosmo, Natalia Tena, Owen Teale and of course Charles Dance are all recognizable names and/or respected longtime character actors. All received guest credits.

With that in mind, I’m fairly certain that for this season, Natalie Dormer and Carice Van Houten will be credited in the closing credits. I don’t doubt they’ll be moved up to the regular cast at some point, but probably only after a few other names are removed.

Also, I don’t know why you insist that they won’t bill a woman first. It’s not as if it’s unprecidented.

Maxwell James,

I theorized this possibility myself, but the only problem is that with the possible exception of Van Houten there’s no one who’s a big enough name to take the “and” credit.

Wouldn’t Dinklage be listed first because he is taking Sean Bean’s role as Hand of the King? At this point we know that Tyrion is going to be on screen as much as Eddard Stark was in the previous season, so wouldn’t Peter’s name go first?

Stephan Dillane and Liam Cunningham name’s might be mentioned immediately just like Mark Addy’s name was done after Bean’s. Not to mention someone has to replace Harry Lloyd’s name in the credits. I think Dinklage, Dillane, and Cunningham will replace Bean, Addy, and Lloyd. I don’t think Carice Van Houten will get the “and” I certainly hope not.

Conleth Hill might finally get his name in the credits because Varys role is a bit bigger in season 2.

Balon’s been cast!!!!!!

If they cut the Reeds out I’ll be pissed!!

Steph,
I understand I’m being excessively catastrophic, after all they cast Balon today and they could cast Meera and/or Jojen tomorrow, but… what if the powers that be want to scupper R+L=J altogether? After all it’s only a theory, though one I considered most logical while reading the books. From what the show has told us until now, it makes more sense that J is Cersei’s long-lost son.

Blackfish Blues,

Mark Wilson,

okay, this thread is getting weird

Julian Walker: Not to mention someone has to replace Harry Lloyd’s name in the credits

it’s not like they “have” to replace the dead with new names. also, there’s no need for somebody to “fill” that line in the credits, they already gave that “slot” to RM.
(right after episode 6 (and harry lloyd’s demise :( ) they changed the line “harry lloyd, kit harington” to “kit harington, richard madden”)

Mark Wilson: Brynmure ship might go a ways to explaining Edmure, but it’s ludicrously inconsistent with the character of your namesake.

ser, i have to object. It could explain why left Riverrun as soon as he could and stayed away from years. It’s because he KNEW his feeling were wrong, he just couldn’t stop himself. I’ll go further: THIS is why edmure (despite being the heir to riverrun) hadn’t showed any wish to marry. He just didn’t feel…. comfortable with the idea ;)

world_dancer: Edmure is a foil for Robb. His well-meaning incompetence allows us to see how many things Robb gets right as a leader, rather than making the antagonists (Tywin & Jaime) appear incompetent.

actually, edmure isn’t incompetent. Seriously. Did Robb tell him hold the castle and DON’t attack? no, he didn’t . But yet he blamed edmure when he did something he hadn’t been told not to do

I have heard that they have auditioned for Pod

I wouldn’t mind if Pod was left out. He’s not really needed. Someone else can help Tyrion out and I could see Brienne heading off on her adventure alone.
As for the Tullys, I’d be very surprised if Edmure wasn’t cast for this season. The Blackfish himself we don’t need, but who’s gonna screw up big time if not Edmure?
With Meera and Jojen, I can see them merging the two into one. I wouldn’t have a problem with that but as Others have said, they can’t have Bran and Hodor out and about alone. The idea is completely laughable.

Elena Amici,

I prefer “tullied” myself :L

Josh Parker,

While I see your point, I still disagree on Dillane and am willing to wager a reasonable amount of cash that he will be in the opening credits, probably near the top. By Marquis I was going for a more British Stage image not “big star”. Dillane is incredibly respected by the establishment and in all fairness he’s about as famous now as Ian McShane was prior to Deadwood. Granted Ian was in Sexy Beast but that was seen more as a supporting part, which barring his extensive theatrical career is what Dillane is mostly known for prior to his popularity surge beginning with John Adams (Emmy and Golden Globe Nominations) in the latter period of the previous decade. He is also as big a name as Nicolaj-Coster Waldau.

Regardless it will be interesting to see how the credits appear come Season 2.

I can see why people say he’s a “nobody” mostly because they wanted a big name for Stannis’ role like Christopher Eccleston or Gerard Butler or in some cases Liam Cunningham for Stannis. But I hope they enjoying eating crow. Because given his track record Dillane has the potential of knocking the role out of the park.

As for the Michelle Fairley not being the first in the cast list, I maintain what I say. Deadwood, Rome, The Wire, The Sopranos, NONE of them feature females in the lead. I’m not being misogynist I’m just laying out from experience what I discern as the rules for lead billing.

Deadwood:
Timothy Olyphant
Ian Mcshane

Rome:
Kevin McKidd
Ray Stevenson

Sopranos:
James Gandolfini.

The Wire:
Dominic West

All of those shows had prominent female characters but they were at least two or three down the list.

It seems the lead bills go first in alphabetical order then the 2nd bills followed by the 3rd bills. Guest appearances are used in the credits. Why don’t I have Madden or Harrington or Clarke near the top given their growing popularity and their nature as integral characters to the show? Simple, younger actors are not as paid much as veterans. Lead Billing gets the biggest bucks regardless of a character’s significance to the story. Joe Blow might not know this or care, but monsieurs at Variety, Hollywood Reporter, AMPAS, SAG etc do.

Elena Amici,
NCW is listed before Michelle Fairley. He was missing in two episodes and thus Michelle Fairley moved up the list. As for NCW’s limited presence in Season 2, I’m pretty sure he is getting expanded role (his and Richard Madden’s growing popularity being the reason) as they are moving the story-lines from ASOS into ACOK/Season 2.

Josh Atreides,

i know, but there’s still a limit. All he’s going to do the first half of the season is trying to find new ways to escape, i feel it

The White Bullshit: This is exactly the kind of changers that will likely ruin the show. They are too god damn eager to make changes all over the place. Character development? Pffft. Awesome badass characters? No, don’t need ‘em. Stupid, unnecessary changes? Hell yeah!

I don’t understand how anyone who watched the first season could possibly make a statement like this, or actually believe they are “eager to make changes all over the place. ”

Elena Amici,
I’ll assume we’re still speaking tongue-in-cheek, because equating homosexuality and paedophilia makes me quite uncomfortable, and I’m the one who pictures the Blackfish in love with anyone but barn animals… omg, what have we done with this thread? I’d rather have the FrankenFish :P

Mark Wilson,
good point on the narrative link between Riverrun and the Tullys. Every time a new locale has been introduced in the series, new important characters have been introduced with them, and now we know it will be the same with the Iron Islands. I don’t see how they can’t have a Riverrun in an indeterminate future, unless they don’t cut completely that part of Jaime’s evolution.

The White Bullshit: The quality of season1 was not nearly on par with the quality of the book(s).

That’s a bit like saying WWII was more suspenseful than Saving Private Ryan. While, yes, that’s technically true, it sort of misses the point. A movie is not real life and a television show is not a book. They excel in different areas and expecting the strong points of one to translate into the strengths of the other will accomplish nothing but a set up for disappointment.

Asoiaf = some of the best books out there, bar none.
GOT ≠ one of the best tv shows of all time.

I would also contest this entire premise. I read a lot and I watch a lot of TV, and high quality work in both areas. I can think of quite a few shows that are better than Game of Thrones in various aspects, but it still easily ranks in the top few percentage points as far as first seasons of television go.

A Song of Ice and Fire is an amazingly well-constructed and exceedingly entertaining series, but it has its flaws. The prose is above average, but nothing that would drag me in without the compelling plot. The scope is incredible, but it was expanded to a point that dragged out a bit of the momentum, and I say this as someone who thoroughly enjoyed most of the material I hear other people complaining about (Brienne, the Ironborn, etc.).

A Song of Ice and Fire is a great story, but it is not the best story. Game of Thrones is not the best show, but it is a great show. I think you are dramatically overstating the difference in quality so far with regard to the rest of their respective media.

Elena Amici,

I dunno, actors have been known to have snits on sets because of being bumped down from lead billing. Those clauses are usually included in their contract. Remember: this goes on their resume, and to have lead billing in a series in the first season but not in the 2nd? That does not look good. He may have a smaller role than in Season 1, but that has no bearing on his placement in the billing.

Now if there are contracts that are revisited this year then that will affect the billing for the next season.

Josh Parker,

That’s true about the Fairley placement in the last episode. Very weird. Some strange rule system for billing that is unknown to us I suppose. Or maybe it was a glitch like the incorrect House Sigils in the first two episodes.

Very well then!

By the by, I am very happy to have another Dillane supporter here! Dillane and Malahide and Dance! This show is getting the fine treatment.

Blackfish Blues,

OMG no! it wasn’t supposed to sound pedophilic u.u
i blame pod
New version: They didn’t have feelings when edmure was a boy. They where penfriends – that’s how they developed feelings for each other. u.u

Hmmmm, I don’t like the idea of losing Pod or the Tullies. Podrick is too much of a character in the books– he’s too present, with his own storyline, etc, etc. It also would remove one of the few really major-ish commoner characters (even then he’s not -really- common, but in comparison with many of the other central characters he is).

I think they could find ways to replace the Tullies (at least up to AFfC, which is what I’ve read up to) but it would significantly lessen the richness of the story as a whole and the character/history development of Catelyn and many of the others. In fact, if they’re planning to beef up Jamie’s scenes in the second season, one could argue they would need to spend more time on the Tullies (especially Edmure and/or The Blackfish).

I always found the Reeds a bit annoying tbh, but they are clearly in the books as plot drivers and I can’t see removing them without more trouble than it is worth. Combining them could work, but it really depends on what GRRM has in store for them.

Also, I noticed someone mentioning that they may not have Jamie lose his hand. Is this just speculation based on how tedious it may be to CG, or is it something that has been rumoured and I missed it? I hope not– that’s the major turning point of his character. o.0

ALSO. Westeros just posted this on facebook (by the time I’ve written this comment there will likely be a WiC post on it already though, haha): http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpzmkaiFVj1r1vrp1o1_r1_500.png

The White Bullshit: The quality of season1 was not nearly on par with the quality of the book(s).

1. The book is always better.

2. The books are some of the best (within the fantasy genre) on the shelves today, many agree. I can’t stand material like Wheel of Time. I can’t compare the books to general contemporary fiction because it’s just not possible. No serious persons could forgive me for that.

3. As a fantasy TV show, GoT is probably one of the best ever produced. But there are so few… And I like cheesy stuff like Legend of the Seeker (I couldn’t stand reading Terry Goodkind though). The bad ones, I believe they don’t surface into mainstream so I don’t become aware of them.

4. As a drama show, I thought GoT had its moments, and some hard-to-forgive problems. Comparable The Tudors kept me coming back. If I hadn’t read SoIaF I dare say GoT would not really have me coming back (I’m immune to hype).

Steve Hugh Westenra: Also, I noticed someone mentioning that they may not have Jamie lose his hand. Is this just speculation based on how tedious it may be to CG, or is it something that has been rumoured and I missed it? I hope not– that’s the major turning point of his character. o.0

You know, what they could do instead is have his hand be ‘crippled’, somehow. he wouldn’t have to lose it completely, just lose the use of it, for the main part of the storyline. You know, like someone who has had a stroke, how their hand curls up and contracts, and basically becomes useless? If they had ‘tendons cut’ or something like that, that could produce the same effect, since there are no reconstructive hand surgeons in Westeros these days. And he still ‘loses’ the use of his sword hand, and therefore can’t use that hand for anything he normally did, and it would still have the same dramatic effect.

Tansy is 100% clear, or as clear as pretty much anything ever in the books. Just sayin’.

As for the rest, few characters are ones you can’t work around, but why would you? ASOIF is about characters, and dropping a large number of supporting characters weakens it.

I get the budget thing, but I can’t imagine 10 shoot days of an Edmure is breaking the budget.

And Pod’s confirmed: http://www.accesshollywood.com/_article_52588

Epic The Balls: Wow.. Dan Portman the superunknown techno DJ?

Since our Dan Portman is “well into his teens” and appeared in “Outcast” and is going to appear in “The Angel’s Share” I’d guess not :D

okay, now i really want to know: who was the first to say “i blame pod” and why?

What about the idea of book three being split into seasons 3 and 4, essentially doing book 3 in two seasons?

If that is the case, then all the Tully lead up can be put in season 3, with the RW happening in season 4.

Would that space things out better, even if it’s different than the books?

EPIC AWESOMESAUCE! that’s wild as we were watching JANE EYRE last night, too and when we saw ol’ harry lloyd, it was like seeing an old friend!
“HEY! LOOKIT! IT’S VISERYS! WE’RE SO GLAD YOU ARE NOT DEAD ANYMORE!”

i dunno if losing edmure is such a good idea…blackfish, maybe, cat’s dad…i suppose and i guess even the reeds can be poured into osha’s role, but edmure? then how do we get robb and co. to the RW?

is he just gonna go to have a nice supper with lord walder and his kooky family? hmmmmm…

If you cut Riverrun and the Tullys, won’t viewers ask where the hell Catelyn’s family is and why are they not helping Robb? Both Holster and Edmure were mentioned (or at least mentioned that Catelyn has a living father and a brother) in S1.

“Also, I noticed someone mentioning that they may not have Jamie lose his hand. Is this just speculation based on how tedious it may be to CG, or is it something that has been rumoured and I missed it? I hope not– that’s the major turning point of his character. o.0″

Frankly, this would be one of the few things that might make me quite the show, if it happens (which I don’t think so). It’s an essential part of the story. Even more because we won’t be able to be inside Jaime’s head, so without it he’ll just be a villain.

Death to the Blackfish! A minor, insignificant, and utterly 3rd tier character. Why all the fuss folks? Sheesh… I’d almost rather see the “Get Joe on the Show” guy be in the show than the Blackfish at this point of the discussion, it is old and tired. Enough already! Or better idea. Let the get joe on the show guy play the blackfish, and then kill him off in the first scene this upcoming season! That would be epic!

In the grand scheme of having to cut stuff for the sake of compressing the story into a filmable package, Edmure really isn’t necessary to have the…ahem..RW… They could just make the RW happen when Robb marries into the Freys. The Freys’ motives are already established- they hate and envy the Tullys, and they want to back the winning horse in every situation. They could completely skip everything between Cat/Rob’s promise to the Freys and the RW if the RW is ROB’s….W….instead of Edmure’s. How much of this comment is gonna be redacted I wonder?

Conor,
I thought so too, especially if Robb doesn’t W JW but they have a love story. It would make it more poignant.

But since I feel like destroying something beautiful, what if they cut JW, a.k.a. Spoiler Spoilerling? (or have they cast her already… did we discover who “Jeyne” is?) If she is in, Riverrun must be in.

With the slew of good news of these days and the discovery that Pod and Balon haven’t been tullied, I hope to see an awesome Blackfish and Edmure cast soon.

Elena Amici,
good save :P

Elena Amici:
And i’m kinda tired of people complaining about that dothraki guy killed by drogo. It’s a nameless dothraki guy, for the audience. If they need him later, they can simply replace him with another random dothraki guy, and nobody is going to notice the difference (and nobody is going to care about that storyline, IMO)

Yes, I would like them to introduce a new Dothraki bloodrider in Winds of Winter. Khal Bono, with sunglasses… :)

Elena Amici,
thx for the link! (intriguingly it contains a reference to another one of my fave movies…)

Sid,
I’d follow Khal Bono into the seven hells!

Sid: Yes, I would like them to introduce a new Dothraki bloodrider in Winds of Winter. Khal Bono, with sunglasses… :)

I agree in all line

I was devastated when I read the events at the twins….almost couldn’t continue reading.

You-know-nothing,

How could the author kill Rob and Catelyn in one scene. I’m not sure I’m going to keep reading. My only hope now to kill all the Lannisters is Daenerys. I was hoping Rob would be the real King. He was such a good person.

Really??? Is this what people do? You sit around and think of reasons that you’d quit the show? Sigh… come on people. Why can’t people just enjoy it for what it is, realizing that it and the books will differ. Period.

Winterfell Burning:

Frankly, this would be one of the few things that might make me quit the show, if it happens…

Elena Amici: at the worst, they could merge them. They’re NOT going to cut mance u.u

If they do merge them…well, we will probably have Mance playing the harp and singing songs about his huge member!!! Mance from outside, but Tormund below the waist … That´s funny. Oh! and Mance must remember that he would like a woman with a mustache!

Elena Amici: do you think we’re ever going to hear this song sung out loud?

if Tormund is the singer… Har! and the tittle will be: me huge member.

Elena Amici: What about “Mance Giantmember?”

Genius mix!

You can take certain characters out, and change certain scenes if the changes are minor, but leaving an entire group of people out is a bit ridiculous and I don’t think its a good idea. I notice that the “viewers guide” doesn’t even include the Martells. Does this mean there is no Martell in the series? That would be absolutely unthinkable in my opinion. You might as well just have aliens attack, because it wouldn’t be the same story.
Furthermore, it seems a bit daft that they would go through the trouble of casting Dagmer Cleftjaw, Beric Dondarrion, and some prostitute named Ros before they cast a more major character such as Edmure. I have faith that he will make an appearance, even if they change his name because it sounds too much like Eddard. I kid, I kid.
I also notice a lack of Rickard Karstark. His death is vital to so many developments in the books following. How are they going to get around that?

Having just finished A Dance with Dragons, I believe both Meera and Jojen Reed are absolutely necessary, for both their literal/figurative journey with Bran and Howland Reed’s history with Ned during Robert’s war. Whole family absolutely necessary.

I like that idea, it really ups the pathos factor.

I think that Bran’s story requires someone to interact with besides Hordor on his journey. I wonder if the writers would substitue Osha for the Reed siblings and have Luwin be the one to take Rickon off for points unknown. That or wait and introduce the Reeds in season three.