Thrones now 2nd most watched show on HBO, 3rd most in network’s history
By Winter Is Coming on in News.

A recent article from the New York Times focusing on the competition between Showtime and HBO has revealed updated audience totals for some of HBO’s shows. And what do you know, Game of Thrones has now passed Boardwalk Empire to become HBO’s 2nd most watched show! Thrones clocks in with an average of 9.3 million viewers per episode, while Boardwalk is now at 8.4 million. True Blood is tops with 12.6 million.

Not only that, but the article reports that True Blood and Thrones trail only The Sopranos for the most watched show in the network’s history! That’s pretty amazing.

Winter Is Coming: Some quick analysis: it seems part of Thrones‘ leapfrog over Boardwalk is due to the lower viewer totals of Boardwalk‘s second season dragging down the show’s average (which was at 10.7m following season one). However, at our last report Thrones had 8.9 million viewers per ep, so the show has gained an average of 400,000 viewers per episode in between seasons strictly though On Demand and HBO Go. Amazing. Once the DVD drops, I suspect even more new viewers will be added and hopefully subscribe to HBO for season two. With all these new viewers on board the season two numbers should be huge. True Blood better watch it’s back!


121 Comments

  1. TastesLikeTheSea
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    Hey WIC, your NYT link isn’t working!

  2. sirfKraken
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    When its good, its good.

    And these stats vindicate the quality of this production.

    I’m stoked for D & D, for GRRM and everyone involved in the process.

  3. sjwenings
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    So… viewERS, not views? Cause theres people “like us” watching eps over and over again.

  4. Jarmel
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    Well season 3 looks to be confirmed. This is great news. I definitely can see it breaking True Blood.

  5. Winter Is Coming
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings:
    So… viewERS, not views? Cause theres people “like us” watching eps over and over again.

    Viewers, yes. One person watching it 100 times still only counts as one viewer.

    EDIT: I should add that this is based on HBO’s internal numbers. I have no idea how they arrive at them, but I assume they are fairly accurate. Of course, they can’t calculate whether one person is watching the TV or 10. So to get a true sense of the size of the fanbase, you’d have to multiply that number by 2 or 3. And then multiply it again for all the international fans and those who pirate the show. In short, a LOT of people like Game of Thrones.

  6. sjwenings
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    Fantastic, then!

  7. Bobben
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    That’s great news. Things are just looking brighter and brighter for this show.

  8. fevredream
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    Awesome. And here’s the thing; sad as it is, almost all the people I know who watch GoT don’t have HBO, and thus pirate it. Not that that does HBO too much good beyond lots of word of mouth, but just imagine what the numbers would look like with downloads and streaming included. I think this season having been so big will definitely translate into seeing the subscriptions for HBO go up this spring.

  9. nobodys
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    global markets opened up for HBO over the last year. still, these numbers matter for HBO as a whole and GoT as well.

  10. dizzy_34
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    I thought it would take a little while for the numbers to bear out kind of like True Blood did but man that’s great! Now will Thrones ever catch True Blood (well it has in quality IMO) or Sopranos? That’s going to be tough, but would be really cool. Amazing, seeing as not so long ago we were all just wanting the thing to get pick up for series.

  11. Alan
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    dizzy_34:
    I thought it would take a little while for the numbers to bear out kind of like True Blood did but man that’s great! Now will Thrones ever catch True Blood (well it has in quality IMO) or Sopranos? That’s going to be tough, but would be really cool. Amazing, seeing as not so long ago we were all just wanting the thing to get pick up for series.

    I wouldn’t be shocked to see it happen. There’s been a ton of press that’s occurred after season 1 is over, and it’s back on on demand, the DVD will be coming out, etc.

    True Blood had a huge increase over Season 1, and we shouldn’t expect that because a) Game of Thrones is working off a larger base and b) it was a really unusual increase.

    That said, I know a lot of people who have or who are talking about watching GoT now that the second season is starting soon. And most of them would never watch True Blood, which they view as a bit trashy and due to the vampire thing, a bit more teeny (yes, that may not be true, but right now to a lot of people, vampire = Twilight).

  12. Alan
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    The best thing for GoT would have obviously been winning the Golden Globe (and the Emmy) for best series, but the second best outcome was Homeland winning (over something like BE).

    Showtime has gotten its act together, and with Starz, AMC, and even places like Netflix and Amazon starting to commission original content, the competitive environment has never been stronger.

    HBO will be more willing to invest in an award-winning and popular series if Showtime is breathing down their necks. They’ve had leadership of their market for years and I doubt losing that to cut costs is anything but a last ditch scenario in most of their minds.

  13. Meg
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    BE had a great season this year! The season finale left me in a state of shock.

    I stopped watching True Blood this season because its just became completely uninteresting and stupider than usual. 50% of the cast also needs to die. I wish it was a show just about Pam.

    HBO should be very proud of its choice of landing Thrones. I bet they’re still kicking themselves about turning down Mad Men, though.

  14. John-Michael Lelievre
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Yeah I can see GoT overtaking TB. I really liked the first season of TB but… I couldn’t even make it through the second, it just got horrible for me for reasons I can’t quite pinpoint.

    Anyway since I’m an arbiter of good taste, people will inevitably follow my lead. haha I kid. But yeah I really can see GoT out-doing TB. The Sopranos however… I’m not as confident but who knows, it could happen! (I hope it does)

  15. jdp13
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Great news. I wonder if a season 3 (and 4?) are pretty much a sure thing now or if HBO still wants it to hit a certain number of viewers etc. before a decision is made.

  16. Langkard
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    After the trailer last night, I stuck around and watched Luck. Impressive acting, writing and story. I think HBO has another hit on its hands. They just keep hitting it out of the park with their series television. I am constantly reminded how lucky we are that HBO chose to do Game of Thrones.

  17. Mormegil
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    jdp13: Great news. I wonder if a season 3 (and 4?) are pretty much a sure thing now or if HBO still wants it to hit a certain number of viewers etc. before a decision is made.

    Pretty sure seasons 3 and 4 are a given but there won’t be any announcement till after Ep1 of Season 2.

    I mentioned on another thread that there’s a 16 min programme airing on March 11th called Game of Thones : Echoes from the Past.

    Described as a companion piece to Season 2 I was wondering if it could be something like the History of Westeros stuff that will be on the Blu Ray giving a bit of background to the past of Westeros or will it just be a look back over Season 1?

  18. Maxwell James
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Just from HBO’s advertising, it’s pretty clear that they now see GoT as their new keystone franchise – leading & ending the new sizzle reel, for instance. I would be surprised if it surpasses TB this year – but by next year, watch out. Especially if S2 turns out as strong as it’s now looking to be.

  19. dizzy_34
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    Speaking of that sizzle real, was there not some additional season 2 footage in that thing? I swear there was some Robb Stark and Joffery shots that weren’t season 1.

  20. dizzy_34
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    Well did a little search and check out :37 and :56 for a couple of different season 2 shots. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx-WYPPxf9s

  21. SomeGuy
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    2 Seasons Average vs 1 Season Average?

    Doesn’t seem fair to compare.

    Comparing Season 1 of Boardwalk Empire with Season 1 of Game of Thrones would be more fair.

  22. Andrija Andrew
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    Meg: BE had a great season this year! The season finale left me in a state of shock.

    Well I seriously doubt that their finale would be the same if the GoT didn’t break the ice :)

  23. The Kingslayer
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    BTW Game Of Throne won a sag last night.

  24. houndlover
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    I love all 3 shows…. But GoT is defo my top choice… True Blood will be going down in my opinion now they’ve introduced ‘fairies’ (in the books they are proper poo).

    And… OMG new trailer is awesome… I actually clutched my head in excitement :D C’mon April, get a move on!!!!

  25. Duff Man
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    The Wire has em all beat, but GoT is definitely #2!

  26. feyrband
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    i DVR it, then i VOD it, then i HBO GO it. idk if all 3 count since they are different systems being used, but i will do it even if i’m not going to watch the episode again all 3 times and just let them play in background or something.

  27. John
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Boardwalk Empire has been a letdown this season considering all the buildup from the last so it’s not really surprising that they are spiraling down in the ratings . I never even really got the love of this show anyway and how it’s considered the next Sopranos and all that . The Sopranos beats this overrated show any time of the day . Yes , I know there are a lot of talented people involved in the show but when the story and characters are dull as fuck and you make atrocious plotlines like the ones this season you are not going last very long no matter how many awards or ass kissing you’re gonna get .

  28. John W
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    I’m expecting the rating to be a lot higher for season 2 now that everyone knows more about the world of ASOIAF.

  29. Maxwell James
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    SomeGuy,

    I agree. Even fairer would be comparing 2 seasons of GoT to 2 of BE. Which will be possible in a couple of months.

    (And fairer yet would be to note that ratings are not the be-all end-all for HBO, nor are the Nielsen ratings all that rigorous in their method. Caveats abound).

  30. Lex
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    Ha! I remember being worried sick about ratings last year.

  31. Alan
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    John:
    Boardwalk Empire has been a letdown this season considering all the buildup from the last so it’s not really surprising that they are spiraling down in the ratings . I never even really got the love of this show anyway and how it’s considered the next Sopranos and all that . The Sopranos beats this overrated show any time of the day . Yes , I know there are a lot of talented people involved in the show but when the story and characters are dull as fuck and you make atrocious plotlines like the ones this season you are not going last very long no matter how many awards or ass kissing you’re gonna get .

    The Sopranos was better than BE, and so is GoT and a bunch of other programs in my opinion. There’s always been something missing about BE — perhaps it’s a character you can root for? Maybe just the general slickness? I dunno – it’s hard to put my finger on it.

    That said, Season 2 was much, much better than Season 1. Any lower ratings are really the result of a mediocre season 1 — those viewer numbers declined all season because of the hype. I suspect it is stablizing and may even grow next year as Season 2 was pretty good.

    It still isn’t must-see viewing, though, at least for me.

  32. john
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Just look at the amount of views on yesterday ‘s S2 trailer already. Over 1.1 million already. The hype for S2 is insane. Hopefully the ratings will deliver. I hope people will go out and buy S1 dvd/blu-ray also. I know I’ve pre-ordered mine already!

  33. James
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    Fairer for who BE or GOT? Almost all serialized cable dramas show ratings growth from season to season. Boardwalk Empires drop in ratings is rare for cable dramas especially critically acclaimed ones. GOTs ratings will be larger for season 2 so by comparing the 2 ratings at the end of GOT season 2 would just be more fair for GOT.

  34. darquemode
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    I actually prefer Boardwalk Empire to the Sopranos easily. I never could get into the Sopranos and BE has had me hooked from the pilot I guess. I do agree Season 2 was better than Season 1.

    I guess I connect with the era, and plotlines of BE more so than those of Sopranos. Both had/have great actors and creative teams though.

    I enjoy Thrones more and obsess on Thrones more, but I think Boardwalk Empire may be a better show overall… more consistant maybe if that makes sense at all.

    Either way The Wire is my all-time favorite show and is ahead of both… for now. I think both could surpass The Wire over time though… since both are more epic in scale.

    As far as I’m concerned if a series is one of the 3 or 4 best shows on the air during its run (Boardwalk Empire, Breakin Bad, Game of Thrones and Mad Man, ), placing it #1 or #4 is fairly irrelevent since it is mostly splitting hairs.

    That’s what great about TV in my mind.. We all connect to shows on personal levels and enjoy different aspects. The more high quality programming made the better!

  35. G_Lee
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    The number of views of the season 2 trailer is really insane! I mean, c’mon it’s been on youtube for less than 24 hours! Season 2 is gonna be great and just as great a success! I can smell it in my piss, seriously! ;)

  36. Rick
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    I’ve been a fan of TB since the first season but compared to GOT it carries all the emotional heft of a High School Musical sequel. No comparison at all. D & D have said all along that if they could get to season 3 that they will die happy. Looks like that’s definitely going to happen. If they can do nearly as good a job with the events of book 3 as they did with book 1 the top spot is theirs.

  37. Meg
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    John:
    when the story and characters are dull as fuck and you make atrocious plotlines like the ones this season you are not going last very long no matter how many awards or ass kissing you’re gonna get

    I disagree; Boardwalk is must see TV for me. I find the characters deep, complex, and interesting. Gillian Darmondy is far more sinister and depraved than Cersei Lannister. And Jon Snow is cardboard compared to Jimmy Darmondy. I’m also rooting for Van Alden to work for Al Capone now that his prohi days are done. That said, I think Thrones had better cliffhanger endings each week to keep audiences coming back for more.

    @darquemode – I agree with everything you said. I think the therapist/psychoanalysis/dream sequence motifs in Sopranos really turned me off.

    Oh, and the Wire owns all.

  38. erik
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Not to totally change the subject but could the fact that HBO didn’t release the DVD set of BE Season 1 prior to the airing of Season 2 have hurt the viewership. I know in the past, especially before DVR, I would hear about a good show and catch up on DVD or Blu-Ray before the next season started. You couldn’t do that with BE, even with Netflix.

  39. Dave
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    That’s great news. There’s no way HBO will cancel the series now, if it keeps up with these numbers. I hope it tops True Blood, I’m sure TB is fine show, but never really into vampires that’s why I can’t get into the show. With these ratings, please HBO give GoT 13-16 episodes for next season, so they don’t split ASOS in two seasons.

    Joining in with the BE discussion, it’s a great show. I think they topped themselves with the latest season. If the first season was as good as season two, maybe all the buzz it got in its early run, would still be there. I don’t understand all this BE vs GoT, seeing as HBO cannot rely on one show, especially when competing with Showtime, AMC and FX, all three have up their game in the last few years.

    Now as great as ratings are, especially as it stops your show from being cancelled, but don’t necessarily reflect the quality of the show. People have already said about The Wire and barely a blip in the ratings during its time, both Mad Men and Breaking Bad gets beaten by a zombie show and Dexter season 6 *shudder* got its highest ratings ever.

  40. Dreamlife
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    This is great news! I actually just spent the weekend rewatching season 1 with my brother, who hadn’t heard of the books or the show. There are few shows that I feel like watching multiple times, but Game of Thrones is one that I could watch repeatedly and always have something new to think about that I didn’t notice the first time. I’m really hoping for excellent numbers so we get a quick renewal for seasons 3 and 4^^

  41. DH87
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    houndlover: True Blood will be going down in my opinion now they’ve introduced ‘fairies’ (in the books they are proper poo).

    TB is dead on its feet, it just doesn’t know it yet, and, if Alex Skarsgard leaves at the end of his 7-year contract (after filming Season 6), TB will be in the shit pit. The new Alan Ball show, “Banshee,” is going to Cinemax, not HBO, so I think both GOT and BE may be safe. I disagree that “Luck” has it to make it big, and I watch horse racing almost daily. Even with Nick Nolte and Dustin Hoffman, I’m not sure they’ve set up a compelling dynamic (although it was great to see Hall of Fame jock-turned-actor Gary Stevens in a featured role). We are seeing the “GOT effect” however, the bar has been raised and I doubt that it will be lowered anytime soon. We’ve got five seasons, minimum.

  42. Thiago Slash
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

    that’s impressive! I’m proud of it!
    and, like WiC said, the numbers don’t account people that download it via unnofficial ways! which means the fanbase is getting monstruously huge. all for the better!

    great news indeed ^^

  43. Jason
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    I love GOT but in no way is it better than Boardwalk Empire. Besides The Wire and the Sopranos, Boardwalk Empire is probably one of HBO’s best shows ever. Viewership is a product of the popularity of the books rather than a true indicator of the quality of the show. For example, look at the Walking Dead on AMC. The Walking Dead has much larger viewership than Breaking Bad and Mad Men, yet it is in no one a better show based on rating and awards. The viewership is based on the fact that the comic has been out for 8 or 9 years. Same is true for ASOIAF. Just look at the Robert hunting scene, the whispering wood, or the Hand’s tourney. Poop scenes.

  44. midnightblack07
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

    I’m glad all the hard work/money put into producing Game of Thrones’ is paying off for the people involved because it is honestly one of the most brilliant things I’ve seen on television (y)

    I do watch True Blood, but I definitely wouldn’t say it’s deserving of such high ratings, particularly with how wacky and in-cohesive everything about it seems to have gotten (I actually stopped watching half-way through season 4 and caught up on my own time when I was outrageously bored one day lol).

    As for Boardwalk Empire, I don’t doubt the show’s quality, but I personally couldn’t get into it–just not my cup of tea I guess?? I found it a bit anti-climactic and I couldn’t relate to any of the characters (that’s usually the main draw for me with books/tv shows/films), but I did recognize that, perhaps for someone who is more inclined towards that genre, the show could be a gem.

    I’d love to see the day Game of Thrones stands at number 1!! *roots*

  45. Giantofstark
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    True Blood used to be entertaining but the last season was drivel. The “bad” people being witches (go Aunt Petunia!) and next season set to be shockingly unoriginal ghosts, meh. Too many series stay on air when they should end on a high not die with a whimper.

    I don’t know anyone who has seen GOT legally, the real viewer levels must be massive. Of course that’s equally the same for all the other programmes too.

  46. Dave
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 11:28 pm | Permalink

    Jason,

    I think that The Walking Dead gets high ratings because it’s also the only zombie show in cable, well, at this moment anyway. If HBO and Showtime should make their own zombie shows, I don’t think TWD will have as high ratings as it does now. I read the ASOIAF books before I got into GoT, so you might think I’m a fan of TWD, seeing as a I’m big fan of the comic, but that’s not true. Frankly, TWD has been a mediocre series so far.

  47. Zack
    Posted January 30, 2012 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

    erik:
    Not to totally change the subject but could the fact that HBO didn’t release the DVD set of BE Season 1 prior to the airing of Season 2 have hurt the viewership.I know in the past, especially before DVR, I would hear about a good show and catch up on DVD or Blu-Ray before the next season started.You couldn’t do that with BE, even with Netflix.

    To a point, but now HBO has their HBO Go service which lets subscribers watch any series in the channel’s history whenever they’d like. The DVD is not really necessary here. Devotees will still buy them to support the shows they love, but for casual viewers there is no longer that purchase requirement.

    I adore BE, especially in season 2. I’m assuredly in the minority (especially here) in that I actually prefer it to GoT. If I hadn’t been drawn into the world by GRRM’s writing skills, and if I didn’t know how awesome things get later on, my excitement for more seasons of it would be quite a few notches lower. So I certainly hope more people get into Boardwalk Empire because I need it to keep going for at least a few more seasons. Regardless, I could hardly begrudge GoT’s success.

  48. G_Lee
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 2:59 am | Permalink

    True Blood lives from the whole vampire-hype we’ve been having the last couple of years. Without that I’m pretty sure ratings wouldn’t have been higher than those of BE or GoT.

  49. Jorge
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 3:04 am | Permalink

    Jason,

    Deadwood was way better than Boardwalk Empire. I like Boardwalk Empire, but I think Game of Thrones is stronger.

  50. More Rice Cooks
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 4:01 am | Permalink

    I thought BE’s first season had some great moments, but overall just wasn’t interesting. The characters are largely boring, and it suffers from having a rather uninspiring lead. Steve Buscemi is a great actor but just doesn’t strike me as a lead actor, or capable of carrying a show. Nucky is supposed to be some bigger-than-life figure, it’s hard to see him that way when he’s portrayed by an old, gangly guy with bad teeth. I think the show would be doing far better with a more convincing lead actor, even if he wasn’t as well known as Buscemi. The only character I found interesting was Al Capone..I haven’t watched S2, although I’ve seen some spoilers but even that wasn’t enough to get me to watch.

    The Wire is the greatest show of all time imo, and The Sopranos is on the list too. GOT had a solid first season, but many of the early eps seemed kind of weak at times, mainly due to the exposition (some of which was extremely unnecessary imo). Those first eps also suffer from some unimaginative cinematography; dunno, scenes like the one with Arya underneath King’s Landing especially felt like standard television, and boring. The last 3-4 eps, but especially the last two, were on a whole different level of quality to me. And everything shown thus far from S2 looks far more cinematic and HBO-worthy, so I’m super excited.

  51. Jordan Healey
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 5:43 am | Permalink

    The Wire followed by Treme for me. Treme Season 2 was really something, I am definitely looking forward to the third season.

    I do like Boardwalk Empire and it does have some good chraracters, but I definitely do find it a bit flat in some instances, then again so is Game of Thrones.

  52. Tywin's Bastard
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 5:53 am | Permalink

    To me quality in a TV show has to be judged in context of what they are trying to do as well. Lots of drama shows have very good writing but it’s still often very safe things to do. Real world drama is relatively simple to get on screen and therefor not going all the way in trying to push the borders of television art.

    It doesn’t say that much in terms of which show is the best (which is subjective, although tons of people on the Internet have no idea what that word means) but it makes quite a difference in what shows are the most important.

  53. Jordan Healey
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 6:11 am | Permalink

    I don’t know if you were talking to me directly or in general but

    Game of Thrones Season 1 would have been a lot better if

    – Less 7-8 minute long D&D dialogue scenes such as ‘War Stories’.
    – Less pointless changes to George’s better material
    – Some of the action scenes were acted/directed/edited better (Bronn/Vardis probably the worst one).

    Most of the other things that were below my expectations were quite forgivable.

    and yes, it’s easier to get stuff right with real world dramas such as The Wire or Treme, but I really couldn’t find that many scenes that I didn’t think were good.

    The first sex scene between McNulty and Rhonda Pearlman was a bit off (the end lines were great though) they even commented about the ridiculousness of it in the Audio Commentary of another episode; and some of Shirrod’s acting was a bit off as well.

    Other than that not much else :)

    I do suppose it has something to do with how intimate to the material (the ASoIaF books) I am that makes me find it really easy to nitpick the show after a few watches … However I’ve seen The Wire 8 or 9 times through now and I’m still not sick of it so …..

    Still, for their first attempt at a TV show, Dan and D.B. have done a good job (whereas David Simon has been in the TV business for quite some time). I am hoping for less rough edges in season 2!

  54. Tywin's Bastard
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    Jordan Healey,

    I was making a general point, I didn’t intend my post to be directed towards you. Now that I respond I’m using the Reply function.

    I liked the war stories scene and I don’t think it has anything to do with D&D, not even on a remote level. It gave great insight into the character of Robert, both what he was and what he’s become.

    And to watch a show where you’re very intimate with the source material is a completely different thing than watching a show with fresh eyes. So different that comparisons can become irrelevant if you don’t take enough time to delve into that difference.

    A good example for me is when I watched the films The Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons. I thought the first was an OK film on an interesting subject because it was completely new to me. Everyone I’ve heard that have seen both films with fresh eyes think they are about equal but I read the book before I saw Angels and Demons and I found the movie to be awful. That’s not because it’s actually any different than the first one, it’s just because I felt that all the best aspects of the book were what was stripped away to make it into a film. So that comparison is all about my previous experiences with the source material. Everything that’s different stand out like a mountain on a plain and it’s impossible not to judge those parts in ways that you very rarely do with fresh material.

  55. Josh Atreides
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    I will flog this dead horse once again: If GoT even attempts to be anything like The Wire or in a lesser extent, Boardwalk Empire, iit will soar. From what I’ve seen of the season 2 Trailer there is a distinct difference between the clunky ones released for season 1 and the more Cinematic in style and scope that I have seen for season 2. There is a confidence to it. I pray that continues.

  56. Gez
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    Josh Atreides,

    I agree. I think Season 2 can be better in quality.

    In regards to Boardwalk Empire, I do think its a better show than Game of Thrones. BE S2 was nothing short of amazing. GOT isnt on that level – though off-course absolutely love it. Perhaps I’d love it more had i not read the books and discovered it for the first time – who knows?

    I just think we are lucky to have shows like GOT, BE, Mad Men et al on TV at the moment. Its a golden era for dramas.

  57. Joshua Taylor
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Gez,

    Don’t know why I double posted but I agree with you 100%. We are living in a golden age for the television drama. What began with The X Files, continued with Buffy and was soon followed by The Sopranos, 24, Deadwood, Rome, Battlestar Galactica, Lost, The Wire, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Fringe etc. Television in my opinion has surpassed cinema as the go to medium for grand storytelling.

  58. John
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Gez:
    Josh Atreides,

    I agree. I think Season 2 can be better in quality.

    In regards to Boardwalk Empire, I do think its a better show than Game of Thrones.BE S2 was nothing short of amazing. GOT isnt on that level – though off-course absolutely love it. Perhaps I’d love it more had i not read the books and discovered it for the first time – who knows?

    I just think we are lucky to have shows like GOT, BE, Mad Men et al on TV at the moment. Its a golden era for dramas.

    Nothing short of amazing ? It was pure crap and boring as shit with crappy plotlines that nobody cared about such as the lame Margaret story and the whole Commador bullshit . Game of Thrones was way superior to this garbage .

  59. Joshua Taylor
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    John,

    Yes, well, that is one opinion. Do remember that other people might differ from your perspective. I know good television when I see it. But thanks for your thought out and nuanced rebuttal. You make some convincing arguments. :-/

  60. Jordan Healey
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    Tywin’s Bastard,

    Yeah thats what I thought, I thought I’d reply anyway though.

    I’ve raised this point about the longer added scenes a few times, and if you contrast them compared to all the scenes from the book bar the prologue, I don’t really think there’s a book scene that comes close to their length. And my take on this was that the writers seemed unable to be able to cut their own material, where they can cut the book material to ribbons.

    Most of the exposition monologue scenes (which for the most part I really don’t think suit the show that well) feel very weird to me, they’re very see through in that it’s sooo obvious that they’ve been specifically added in to give us background information on a character or actor they feel doesn’t have enough lines, and they feel very artificial.
    And I don’t think this is because I’ve read the book first, because I noticed a few of them in Boardwalk Empire as well, particularly the scenes with Chalky White (Michael K. Williams). I love Michael K. Williams in The Wire. He’s good in Boardwalk Empire too, and he didn’t really have much to do in the first season.

    In season 2 there’s a few scenes that really just felt like “hey we’ve got this really good actor here that we haven’t really got any story for, let’s make up some monologue scenes for him”.

    What they’re doing seems very ‘Deadwood’ to me. You know, where Al Swearengen goes on these rants about the past, particularly when he’s getting a blowjob. Or E.B. Farnham talking to himself alone. This worked for Deadwood, but I don’t think this particular monologue style works for Game of Thrones.

    Something like this or this would be much more appropriate, where an exposition scene is worked into a character arc or into part of the story, rather than just being a standstill scene.
    The Jaime / Jory scene was a good example of that.

  61. Tywin's Bastard
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Jordan Healey,

    I’m not so sure it has to do with them having an easier time cutting the existing material. As said, we have quite a bias but I’ve found it interesting that several reviewers that have praised individual scenes have done so with new scenes to a large extent. Therefor I’m skeptical to the idea that this is a quality issue and more inclined to believe that it’s just about taste. Taste in combination with previous knowledge about the story.

    I haven’t watched Boardwalk Empire yet so I can’t say much how those compare. I’m not sure if I’ll watch it or not since I’ve heard quite a bit of well put arguments for how the quality dwindled in season 2 and I’m already not that interested in the time period to begin with, plus that it’s been done many times before. We’ll see, but I’m afraid it will be a show that’s pretty well done but leaves me not caring about it at all. I’m definitely going to watch The Wire though (I’m really behind when it comes to good TV shows).

    I have seen Deadwood though and it’s fantastic. I guess I don’t feel that it works differently than GoT because I think Roberts war story scene is much better than the Jory and Jaime scene, although I do like the latter as well. The former has more to say and allows the actorsmore time to let their work sink in so it’s actually one of the scenes I go back to when I’m just watching some individual scenes from the show. I don’t have any problem with it not being a scene that’s part in moving the story forward since we need to see something of the king, and he’s just not doing much anymore.

  62. Elena Amici
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Tywin’s Bastard: We’ll see, but I’m afraid it will be a show that’s pretty well done but leaves me not caring about it at all

    It’s just my opinion, but I think this is exactly what BE is.

  63. Alan
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    darquemode:

    The Wire is my favorite drama as well, and I’m not sure anything will approach anytime soon. It’s fiction, and compelling fiction, but it is largely realistic within our current world and also focusing on elements more important than mere entertainment.

    For me, for a show to approach the Wire’s combination of social awareness & thoughtfulness generally only found in documentaries and storyline and characters often best replicated in fiction — well, it’s going to be tough.

    Even GoT will be tough to hit that. I will be intrigued to see if they can tease out and emphasize the thematic discussions on power enough to make the show as thoughtful as some of the books are (Dance, in particular, I find fascinating beyond entertainment value). But it’s not going to be the Wire.

    I want to really like BE. Great actors, beautifully, historical drama — I like all these things. But it just seems forced to me.

    Deadwood & Rome are also vastly superior in my mind to Boardwalk. I can admire BE’s production values, but the story is eh. Perhaps one too many mobster stories?

    I have to start Breaking Bad — everyone says it is great but I doubt it will approach The Wire for me because I don’t think it is going to be as thought provoking.

  64. nobodys
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    Alan: I have to start Breaking Bad — everyone says it is great but I doubt it will approach The Wire for me because I don’t think it is going to be as thought provoking.

    Breaking Bad is brilliant but it’s nothing like The Wire. Apples and Oranges. The beauty part is they don’t have to compete. They can both exist and both be as good as you like.

  65. Alan
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    nobodys: Breaking Bad is brilliant but it’s nothing like The Wire. Apples and Oranges. The beauty part is they don’t have to compete. They can both exist and both be as good as you like.

    Right – not saying I won’t like it. But there’s definitely a contingent of Breaking Bad fans I know that are very adamant about it being “The BEST TV SHOW EVAR! NOTHING COMES CLOSE!”

    I doubt it will resonate with me like The Wire. But I will definitely watch it.

  66. Tywin's Bastard
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    That makes it similar to The Wire in at least one way then. ;)

  67. Zack
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    I still haven’t finished The Wire.

    I have a hard time with the idea that it’s superior to Deadwood though. I have a feeling Deadwood will always be tops with me as far as HBO goes. I was so obsessed.

    Carnivale was solid too, but I never cared for season two. Brother Justin, in season 1, was interesting. In season two, he was pretty one note.

  68. Remy
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    True Blood is only on season 5… so that’s two more seasons. And I don’t see True Blood going beyond season 7 as it is.

  69. Jordan Healey
    Posted January 31, 2012 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    yeah I too find Boardwalk Empire a bit forced, like it’s ‘trying’ to be a good show, rather than simply being one.

  70. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 12:13 am | Permalink

    Zack,

    Vis a vis Deadwood vs The Wire:

    Deadwood was an incredible show. Great characters, near Shakespearean dialogue, the ability to be downright brutal and emotionally touching at the same time, those overarching themes of spoiling the myth of manifest destiny to portray the Wild West outside of the John Ford Classic Hollywood mythos as dark territory… I could go on and on about Deadwood, but I still think The Wire trumps it. Firstly for its immediate relevancy in its subject matter as it can be applied to any Western metropolis, but also for its sheer ambition and a complete lack of pretension. Now aside from the philanthropic awareness that puts The Wire at the top of the heap, I will say that Deadwood had everything else going for it.

    Unlike The Wire, Deadwood did not see its course. It was not cancelled like Rome, instead it’s creator, either bored or no longer able to mine the well of creativity and enthusiasm, abandoned it right in the middle of its run. To me, this hurts the relevance of Deadwood, that its own creator gave up on it for a trifle like “John of Cincinatti” puts fuel to the naysayers of the show that I constantly warred against of how it was merely an exercise of ‘coolness’ and utter ‘badassness’ for the sake of such sentiment. I don’t believe it personally as there are some great character studies in the story. Not to mention some incredible female characters who stood above in the age they lived in. IE: D and D can write her anyway they please but Ros will never be Trixie or Joanie Stubbs.

    But I wanted more. I wanted to see the town of Deadwood nearly burn to the ground, I wanted to see Sol Starr as Mayor and Al Swearengen, penniless and without friends die ignominiously in a Denver trainyard beating. But David Milch would not give that to us.

    I think when it comes down to it, Deadwood was a brilliant combination of style and nuance. An experiment to bring HBO grittiness to the Western, expanding on what Sergio Leone and Clint Eastwood did with the genre. As good as it was, as great as the characters were, the subject matter didn’t resonate with me emotionally like the crises facing Frank Sobotka and his son, or Poot and Bodie’s initiation into soldierdom, Bubbles’ war within himself or the lives of the kids Naymond, Randy, Michael and Dookie. Deadwood didn’t have the Bunk remind Omar “how far we done fell”, Carcetti lose to his ambition nor a montage that perfectly encapsulates the anger of the working man as seen through Nico’s eyes at the end of season 2.

    Deadwood was an awesome Western whose calibre elevated it from its peers. The Wire was an honest, riveting depiction of our ongoing human tragedy. I suppose I could concede and say Deadwood entertained me more than The Wire at times, but it just didn’t have the same urgency for me.

    They are both awesome shows though ;-)

    Observe… http://youtu.be/z2Q7YRDL90E

    and… http://youtu.be/1wmgghlEagA

    As for Breaking Bad, I kind of see it as a companion piece to The Wire. If the latter was an epic scale portrayal of humanity fighting for its soul than Breaking Bad is that world under a microscope.

  71. Zack
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 12:41 am | Permalink

    That’s as good an endorsement as I’ve read! You’ve convinced me to see it to the end.

    For the record, when I say I have yet to finish it…I have watched all of season one and about half of season two. So I know it’s good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1HUlTKvDUI

    Isn’t that a magnificent scene? Yeah, I think I’m going to finish it. Thanks for the motivation.

  72. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 1:19 am | Permalink

    Zack,

    Good to hear! Season 2 at first was a big adjustment after season 1 for me as well. At first it was my least favourite season. Now that I have seen “all the pieces” fit so to speak, it’s one of my favourites.

    And yes that is an amazing scene, just one in about a hundred or so fantastic moments. The relevance of that particular scene is so powerful once you’ve seen The Wire in its entirety.

    Just for the road: Even Littlefinger wants a piece of Baltimore! http://youtu.be/rKr7R2abqWQ

  73. Jordan Healey
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 1:52 am | Permalink

    Yeah one of my friends couldn’t get past Season 2 Episode 1.

    One day I’ll make him sit through it, even if he doesn’t end up liking Season 2 … Season 3 and 4 are freaking amazing.

  74. the goat
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 2:30 am | Permalink

    Season 2 has Brother Mouzone, therefore it is automatically one of the greatest seasons in television history.

    Also, a blind guy walks into a bar with a duck…

  75. Blueberry2
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 2:52 am | Permalink

    People tend to remember Sopranos with rose shaded glasses- the last 3 seasons were tremendously disappointing. Tony and his crew killed and stole from Russians, Colombians, and bikers, and none of these potential feuds were explored. Instead we got depressed AJ, Tony’s dad’s goomah, gay Vito, Columbus Day protests, and a plethora of other boring stories. Add to that a disappoitning and pretentious finale in which Chase shows contempt for his “bloodthirsty” fans…. I’d rather watch BE anyday. The season 2 finale of BE was ballsier than anything Sopranos did in it’s entire run.

  76. Jordan Healey
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 3:43 am | Permalink

    Really? I found it entirely predictable. The whole season basically was about making you dislike Jimmy so you wouldn’t be mad at his death at the end of the season :P

    Neither am I saying the Sopranos is golden however.

  77. Tywin's Bastard
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: but I still think The Wire trumps it.Firstly for its immediate relevancy in its subject matter as it can be applied to any Western metropolis, but also for its sheer ambition anda complete lack of pretension. Now aside from the philanthropic awarenessthat puts The Wire at the top of the heap, I will say that Deadwood had everything else going for it.

    When I plan to watch The Wire, that’s more of a worry than a main point of interest for me. Having a direct message, and conveying that message through the exact same context as it’s about, can often come across as obvious and preaching to various extent. It can of course be done well, but I prefer to have messages more hidden in allegory or switched context or themes. For example, I think ASOIAF is a very interesting piece on humanity and it’s more interesting because it’s shown in a context that isn’t fully applicable in our world.

    But despite that, I still have the feeling that The Wire has a much bigger chance of making me care about the story and the characters than Boardwalk Empire has.

  78. purplejilly
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 6:33 am | Permalink

    Remy: DH87, True Blood is only on season 5… so that’s two more seasons. And I don’t see True Blood going beyond season 7 as it is.

    Six seasons and a movie!

  79. purplejilly
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 6:35 am | Permalink

    Speaking of “The Wire” we went and saw Red Tails, and it’s filled with Wire alums!

  80. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    Tywin’s Bastard,

    I’m kind of pretentious when it comes to film and television. I am almost always looking for the next piece of art rather than entertainment. I don’t want to say The Wire isn’t entertaining because to be honest with all the depravity that is displayed there is excellent writing and nuance with a Dickensian cavalcade of characters to eat up (when you watch it my view of ASOIAF being the Wire of fantasy will make more sense) the same you would get from the best of any HBO series.
    But one can’t deny that the creators of the series, one a former crime reporter and one and actual cop who worked the streets of Baltimore plus the pedigree of crime fiction writers such as Dennis Lehane for example, are trying to open the eyes of the world to these immediate problems. I wouldn’t call the show preachy to say the least, but it does make you aware just in its visuals of the desparity between rich and poor.

  81. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    purplejilly,

    Nice! Was Red Tails good?

  82. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    Tywin’s Bastard,

    Also The Wire can’t really hide itself from applicability itself since it is in fact a depiction of the drug war in Baltimore. With the city itself as the central character.

  83. Tywin's Bastard
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    As long as it isn’t preachy I won’t have any problems with it. Of course creators that are extremely familiar with the processes involved can make it a bit dry, but I don’t think it will be the case here. I still doubt I’ll enjoy it more due to the political messages though. I tend to handle those subjects mostly with non-fiction.

  84. Epic pinafores
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Tywin’s Bastard,

    I’d watch The Corner first, a spectacular HBO six part mini-series from 2000. Here you can see the core of where David Simon is coming from. The Corner got HBO tons of acclaim, and it was aired about a year after the first episode of Sopranos.

    The Wire is The Corner in an extended and a bit contrived re-write package in a neo-noir James Ellroy style. I love James Ellroy, so The Wire is entertaining enough–it is certainly a gem. The Corner however is a rare diamond.

    Joshua Taylor: I’m kind of pretentious

    This.

  85. Jen@House Stark
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    GOT has ruined me for other shows. I can hardly watch True Blood any more and I used to be totally hooked. I used to watch Boardwalk too, but after the very first time I saw the very first episode of GOT, that was it. I told my son to stick a fork in me, I’m done. It was like nothing I had ever seen before, it kicked my arse!

  86. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    Regarding the cancellation of Deadwood, David Milch in no way “abandoned” the show in favor of making John From Cincinnati. Executives at HBO informed Milch that the actors contracts had not and could not (for financial reasons, apparently) be renewed for a full fourth season. Although HBO initially opted to allow Milch to finish the series with two films, that obviously never came to fruition, which is why you see so many Deadwood alumni with roles in John From Cincinnati.

    Also, to continuously call Deadwood a Western, and to assume that the writers (including Milch himself) saw the show as a platform to subvert the idea of the traditional Western film/television series is a bit (read: way) off-base. In all reality, the Wire and Deadwood seem to be two sides of the same coin in terms of their intent and relevance, in that Deadwood is very much about how a community is formed and The Wire is about how that system falls apart (simplified to the extreme, but essentially true in both cases). I recently did a re-watch of both series and was often struck by the thematic similarities between the two shows.

    Either way, those are the two very best shows that HBO (or anyone) has ever made, although several of the shows currently airing (Game of Thrones, Boardwalk Empire, Luck, or even The Newsroom if Aaron Sorkin can capture that same magic he had when working on The West Wing) could assume a place right next to them if given the time to develop.

  87. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Epic pinafores,

    And proud of it :-) give me art over lowbrow entertainment anyday.

    Nice to see the Corner acknowledged! But I’m confused…how can you call the Wire a gem after only seeing two episodes?

  88. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets,

    I don’t know how you can say I am off base when Milch himself says the same thing in the book “Tales from Deadwood”.

  89. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    I’ve read it, and listened to his commentaries and his quotes on the special features of the complete box set, however the only time Deadwood could be considered a revisionist Western is when Wild Bill is on the show. Milch was clearly positioning the series as a microcosm of the founding of our country, and as an exploration of how communities and governments form and interplay with one another. I wasn’t attempting to point out that you were wrong, simply off-base with your observations.

    However, the information you presented regarding the cancellation of Deadwood was incorrect. Milch did say that he was struggling creatively with the show during both the second and third seasons, however that played no part in the show ending. Milch often struggles with his writing; it’s essentially an integral part of his creative process, which is why many actors will say they’ve never worked with someone like Milch before.

  90. Epic nobodys
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    By ‘gem’ obviously what is meant is ‘useless turd’.

  91. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    Epic nobodys,

    Then you my friend must be a diamond.

    You really hate me don’t you?

  92. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets,

    I can read anything into it I want. It’s a completely legitimate reading of Deadwood as a text. I have a BA in film studies and if I learned anything it’s that every text has multiple readings. I also mentioned the myth of Manifest destiny which pertains to the building of America and the American dream so I wasn’t saying it was straight up subversion of the Western genre. Therefore I take offense of the term off base. Who are you are anyone to tell me my reading is incorrect?
    I don’t criticise people’s opinions I merely criticise at the obnoxious way
    some people (and they know who they are) give their opinions.

    Sorry to harp on you. I guess I forced myself into a rant there.

    And i agree in your last point. How thematically similar they actually are. Which is partly the reason I compared the two shows.

  93. Epic nobodyz
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    Oh, don’t be so insecure. It’s gross.

  94. purplejilly
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: purplejilly, Nice! Was Red Tails good?

    Sigh.. It’s full of the wooden dialogue and stiff performances I’ve come to expect from a George Lucas production, but the flight battles were good! The parts of the movie when they are on the ground lag pretty badly at times, but the air scenes are great. It seemed to be about 1/3rd air time and 2/3rds ground time, and I think it would have been a better movie if they reversed that.
    We went in part because hubby and daughter are big fans of History and WW2 planes and dogfighting, and partly because we saw George on the Daily Show talking about how much trouble he had getting the film finished because it had an all-black main character cast and Hollywood didn’t think it would make any money. And I felt like it would be a good way to stick it to Hollywood, to prove that some of us Americans appreciate seeing movies about history, regardless of what color the people in it are.

  95. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 1, 2012 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Epic nobodyz,

    Yeah well, the world is full of bullies. I guess I should know better.

  96. purplejilly
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: Epic nobodyz, Yeah well, the world is full of bullies. I guess I should know better.

    Ehh, just ignore the bullies!!

    BTW, since I am reviewing moives this week, here’s my unasked for review of “The Iron Lady’.
    Despite the misleading title, not nearly enough steampunk! Not enough Harry Lloyd either. They totally wasted his capability for crazy eyes.
    XD

  97. purplejilly
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: I’m kind of pretentious when it comes to film and television. I am almost always looking for the next piece of art rather than entertainment.

    What’s your view on Lars Von Trier?? Some ppl seem to think its fabulous art, but honestly I just don’t get it.

  98. Epic stromboneous
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: Yeah well, the world is full of bullies. I guess I should know better.

    Obviously the real meaning for “don’t be so insecure” is “stop being so conceited”. No one hates you.. it’s a bit tiring to have to translate everything for you.

  99. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    Epic stromboneous,

    I’m conceited? Ok then. To be honest I was put off by your opinion because it is the first real negative perspective towards…shall we call it ‘the show that must not be named’….that I have encountered. In addition to my own opinion I have read about the show in academic journals both film and literature. Every single one of my friends enjoy it and not for the reasons you state either. Also The Corner pales to the 4th season in my opinion, which was the first of the series that I saw. Sigh there I go again using popularity/ permanent induction in the tv literary canon to strengthen my argument. So okay, I am passionate about what I like. Deep breath, we will agree to disagree.

    At least we have Breaking Bad and Community right? ;-)

    purplejilly,

    I kind of prefer his early stuff, particularly the dogme films which was an attempt at another style of cinema but he’s been hit or miss for me. I do like Celebration though. And I have heard good things about Melancholia. I think a lot of people who use the word ‘pretentious’ are either unaware of the idea the artist is trying to convey, would rather be entertained or are very cynical, conceited people in their own right. Then again, the art or artist in question may just be pretentious after all. It’s subjective.

  100. Epic stromboneous
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: I’m conceited? Ok then. In that case let me tell you more about my favorite subject: my educated opinion.

    lol nice one. Everything else was blablabla.

  101. stile
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    fevredream:
    Awesome. And here’s the thing; sad as it is, almost all the people I know who watch GoT don’t have HBO, and thus pirate it. Not that that does HBO too much good beyond lots of word of mouth, but just imagine what the numbers would look like with downloads and streaming included. I think this season having been so big will definitely translate into seeing the subscriptions for HBO go up this spring.

    If you go to any torrent site, you can get a rough idea of the popularity of anything among pirates simply by looking at the number of “seeders” and “leechers”…the last time I checked, the pilot episode of GOT had much more than Boardwalk Empire, or even True Blood.

    There’s definitely a lot of piracy going on, and this show seems more popular among pirates than other HBO shows that have more legitimate viewers. However, piracy also leads to increased subscriptions, through either word of mouth, or simply pirates who decide the show is good enough to be worth paying for. A lot of people will download a show during its initial run, but then legally purchase the DVDs. You can argue about the ethics of that if you want, but the bottom line is that for each person who does that, it’s one more DVD’s worth of sales in HBO’s pocket, that they wouldn’t have had without online piracy. Very few people are willing to shell out more than fifty bucks for a DVD set of a show they’ve never seen in any form.

  102. stile
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    DH87: TB is dead on its feet, it just doesn’t know it yet,

    I think it does know it…this last season seemed to be trying to top itself constantly, just to see how ridiculous it could get. Seems like they’re trying to go out in a blaze of absurdity…personally, I think it’s hilarious, and I’ll keep watching just to see how they manage it.

  103. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    Epic stromboneous,

    I like how you altered my words there to get to my real point. Pray tell may I ask what is wrong with an educated opinion? I mean that’s who I am. You or anybody else on this forum gives their educated opinion. Why am I to be criticised? There are many things that you say that I wholly agree with and I have the humility to point it out. I would just like to find some common ground is all. I guess I am probably talking to myself here but I really wish you would confirm yourself as a Troll or not. Because most of the time I can’t tell if you are being sincere or sarcastic.

  104. Epic stromboneous
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: I like how you altered my bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla.

    Okay.. what? I don’t get it.

  105. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Epic stromboneous,

    I’ll take that as a confirmation then. Your a terrible person. I feel sorry for your friends and family.

    Winter or any other mod in this site: I will send you money to get an ignore button on this board.

  106. Knurk
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    how bloody hard is to just not read his posts, almost noone here gives him any attention yet you constantly go into nonsensical discussions with Epic despite having previously stated you would ‘not feed the troll.’ These banters between you two are really boring and you both come off as pretentious douches by trying to be the smartest or the ‘morally’ superior, please get a room.

  107. Epic lovely time
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Knurk,

    I agree, especially about how I’m the smartest and morally superior.

  108. Coltaine777
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    You really should just ignore him…your doing exactly what he wants …

  109. Joshua Taylor
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Knurk,

    Coltaine777,

    I concede to all your points. I just don’t understand the bully/troll mentality. I never did. My behaviour in retrospect is pretty embarrassing and foolish. I guess I just don’t understand why he’s even tolerated. I guess the guise of anonymity is how he lashes out at the world. With a name like that, the first thing I think of is “Napoleon” complex.

    You seem like someone with a strong backbone Knurk, you give your opinions readily and do not pull your punches with them. Please understand that I am not trying to be morally superior or the more intelligent, I am simply trying to keep things friendly. I know from a previous comment you made that such an environment is boring to you and to an extent I agree. But this has gone too far. Ironic isn’t it? I’ve always been the diplomat amongst my friends, If I know someone likes something that I do not I merely say “that doesn’t float my boat” or something of the like.I am sensitive to other people’s feelings, I always have been. For one thing it avoids conflict. I suppose some conflict is necessary, even though I have always tried to find the good in everybody and everything. But then I always end up in this situation. And then I look at my parents who fight all the time yet they are a happy couple. Whereas I have had friends with parents who don’t fight it all. One set of parents are alcoholics, the other set are divorced. It’s high time I deal with conflicts that I might win and avoid the ones that will just be endless skirmishes.

    It’s like Coltaine says, I am doing exactly what he wants. Well, no more.

  110. Epic lovely time
    Posted February 2, 2012 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: My behaviour in retrospect is pretty embarrassing and foolish.

    I’m embarrassed for you as well, but never had the heart to tell you. Good luck with the thing.

  111. Epic pinafores
    Posted February 3, 2012 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    Guys, don’t stop fighting over me. I love being the meat in this sandwich.

  112. DH87
    Posted February 8, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Mormegil: Pretty sure seasons 3 and 4 are a given but there won’t be any announcement till after Ep1 of Season 2.

    Agree—since the age of the children will undoubtedly affect shooting schedules in a way that the other shows under discussion don’t have to grapple with. I’m sure the green light for Seasons 3–5 has all but been given for internal scheduling purposes, but the HBO promo dept. wants to keep each season’s “renewal” as a “spontaneous reaction to the tremendous response the new season has received.”

  113. dice
    Posted July 9, 2012 at 2:16 am | Permalink

    TRUe blood is pretty entertaining show i LOVE G.O.T but true blood will REighn as long as eric is still in the Picture

  114. axia777
    Posted January 1, 2013 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    Jarmel:
    Well season 3 looks to be confirmed.This is great news.I definitely can see it breaking True Blood.

    So can I. The last season of True Blood was pretty lame. The story is stagnating and is getting horribly stale. I simply do not care if Sookie lives or dies at this point nor who wants her or not. I don’t even care about who rules the vamps or not. It all got so damn boring.

    Season 3 of Game of Thrones will wreck on True Blood so much.

  115. Delirium33
    Posted February 25, 2013 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    And with this new season (because of the quality of the story of the things that are about to happen in this season… DON’T SPOIL FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN’T READ THE BOOKS), it will become the #1, for sure. Both seasons are INSANELY great.

  1. […] medi di ogni episodio (con repliche, DVR e visioni su altre piattaforme), Game of Thrones risulta la terza serie più vista di sempre nella storia della HBO, superata solo da True Blood e I […]

  2. […] reached that magic number by the final episode. The latest word we had (back in January) was that GoT already surpassed Boardwalk in terms of total unique viewers with an average of 9.3 million per episode (which includes all the re-runs and on-demand views), […]

  3. […] consolidated numbers from the first three eps only) quotes even over 11 million views already. The latest season of True Blood clocked in at 12.6m – we are catching […]

  4. […] know that officially HBO has declared Game of Thrones its third most-watched show ever, behind True Blood and The Sopranos. Well, True Blood is slowing down and Thrones will likely end […]

  5. […] of the show. On average, 11.6 million people watched Thrones every week, accross all platforms (the previous number we had was 9.3 million). The sales of Season Two box sets broke records again, and was 44 percent […]

  6. […] breakdown of just what the above numbers entail. It is something that we have discussed many times before here, but is worth a […]


  • Recent Comments

  • RSS Recent Forum Topics

  • Archives

    • 2014 (1085)
    • 2013 (679)
    • 2012 (550)
    • 2011 (512)
    • 2010 (309)
    • 2009 (174)
    • 2008 (47)
  •