Here is the latest installment in our ten-part scripting series, in which we do our best to predict how the writers will take A Clash of Kings and turn it into a 10-hour season of dramatic and exciting television. Fire and Blood has given me the reins for this one and I have taken a crack at scripting episode two.
As FaB mentioned in the first scripting post, this year we know that the writers will be deviating from and expanding on the source material and so these speculative scripts reflect that. Some of these scenes are ones we know have been filmed and other changes are our best guesses as to how they may adapt this story.
SEASON TWO; EPISODE TWO
THEON 1
DAVOS 1 (second half)
TYRION 2 (second half)
JON 2
DAENERYS 1 (second half)
ARYA 2
TYRION 3
JON 3 (first half)
The episode one post can be found HERE. The full breakdown of the book is HERE. PLEASE NOTE that none of these scripts are official. Episode two covers roughly 106 pages, from page 122-228 in the US paperback. The one exception, the Arya 4 chapter has been pushed back to episode 3 while the Jon 3 chapter has been brought forward to this episode.
As one would expect, spoilers abound. Click through at your own risk.
Introductions: Damger Cleftjaw (Ralph Ineson), Balon Greyjoy (Patrick Malahide), Salladhor Saan (Lucian Msamati), Dolorous Edd (Ben Crompton), Gilly (Hannah Murray), Craster (Robert Pugh), Xaro Xhoan Daxos (Nonso Anozie), Pyat Pree (Ian Hanmore), Quaithe (Laura Pradelska)
Deaths: Mhaegan, Barra, Tobho Mott?
Sex: Captain’s daughter and Theon, Cersei and Lancel, Stannis and Melisandre
OPENING CREDITS
EXT. KING’S LANDING – DAY
The Gold Cloaks are storming through the city streets, busting down doors, as screams come from within and frightened women run out bloodied and crying. Next, we see the Gold Clocks enter a familiar building.
INT. BROTHEL – KING’S LANDING – DAY
Gold Cloaks storm through the whorehouse, room by room, opening doors and pulling back curtains to reveal whores and their johns in various states of undress and in various compromising positions. One room contains a woman, MHAEGAN, clutching a babe to her breast. “In here, milord!” the Gold Cloak calls out. JANOS SLYNT enters the room and demands Mhaegan hand over the babe. She refuses. Slynt slits her throat with one swipe of his sword. The babe screams frantically. Slynt turns to his Gold Cloak, “Shut this bastard up” and strides out of the room. The young Gold Cloak looks squeamish, but unsheathes his dagger.
INT. SHIP’S QUARTERS – DAY
Closeup on THEON GREYJOY’s face. He looks pleased. Zoom out to reveal a woman kneeling before him. Theon finishes. The CAPTAIN’S DAUGHTER tells Theon that was her first time. “Imagine that, the first cock you sucked belongs to the son of Balon Greyjoy and a future Hand of the King.” Theon tells her of Robb’s plans and that he is heading to Pyke to ask his father to join Robb’s cause. A call from above deck. “Take me with you, milord! I can be your salt wife.” Theon laughs and departs.
EXT. PYKE – DAY
Theon walks down the gangplank, he sees a familiar face. It is DAGMER CLEFTJAW. The Cleftjaw greets Theon. Theon is anxious to meet with his father. Dagmer tells him he has been with the Starks too long, he forgets what it is to be an Ironborn. The Old Ways must be honored first.
INT. DRAGONSTONE – NIGHT
DAVOS SEAWORTH ascends the circular stairs of Dragonstone’s keep. He arrives at the entrance to the Chamber of the Painted Table, the guards open the doors and we see STANNIS BARATHEON seated on the raised chair, surveying the table. Stannis tells Davos of the letter he intends to send out to the Seven Kingdoms, proclaiming Joffrey the product of incest and declaring Stannis the rightful king of Westeros. Stannis says he trusts Davos, wants his advice (some of Davos’ backstory is revealed via exposition here). Davos says they must get Renly to bend the knee first, if they hope to have the strongest claim. He also says that some of his men are upset that he has forsaken the Seven, Davos himself hints that he does not trust the Red Priestess. Stannis says he does not believe in gods himself, but cannot deny Melisandre’s power. He hopes this power will tip the scales in his favor.
INT. RED KEEP – DAY
TYRION LANNISTER sits at the Hand’s desk, speaking with VARYS. BRONN is there as well. Tyrion is furious over the actions of the Gold Cloaks. He assumes Cersei was the one behind it, Varys does not deny it. He says the baby was Robert’s bastard and that the mother still loved Robert. Tyrion questions why Varys didn’t stop it, Varys replies that he did get one bastard out of the city. Tyrion asks Bronn if he would kill a baby without question. Bronn replies, “I would not… I would ask how much first.”
EXT. VILLAGE – DUSK
“Gone, milord. All gone.” The Old Bear, JEOR MORMONT, sits astride his horse, listening to the report of his rangers who have just scoured the village of Whitetree. JON SNOW is beside Mormont, as is DOLOROUS EDD TOLLETT. ”All except those poor souls whose charred bones we found. Or maybe they were the lucky ones,” Dolorous Edd says. The Old Bear tells Jon to have Sam send a raven back to the wall, letting them know what they’ve found. Jon rides off.
EXT. FOREST – DUSK
SAMWELL TARLY is tending the ravens. Jon rides up. “Another one,” Jon says. “Another? That’s the fourth one already,” Sam replies. GRENN is there too. Sam confides in them both that he, surprisingly, isn’t scared. Jon tells him to be careful or Mormont might send him out scouting and hunting with Grenn. “If you were out there you’d be frightened,” Grenn says. “The woods are quiet as a crypt and we haven’t been able to find any game in days. It’s not just villages that are deserted, the whole bloody forest is empty.”
EXT. VAES TOLORRO – DAY
The sun beats down on the city of bones. JORAH MORMONT rides through the abandoned streets, dismounts and enters a ruined building. Inside sits DAENERYS TARGARYEN surrounded by her three dragons. “We must continue on, my queen.” Dany says they will wait until her riders return, they have already lost Doreah, she doesn’t want to lose any others. Jorah begins to object when IRRI enters. Kovarro has returned, he has discovered a city and brings with him three who would see Dany’s dragons. “Bring them before me.”
EXT. PYKE – BEACH – DAY
A Drowned Priest is pouring salt water over Theon’s head and saying a blessing to the Drowned God. “What is dead may never die.” “But rises again, harder and stronger.”
EXT. PYKE – ROAD – DAY
Theon and the Cleftjaw travel to his father’s castle. On the way they talk of the situation in the Iron Islands: Euron is gone, Aeron is a priest, Yara has her own ship, etc. Theon tries to learn what his father’s plan is but Dagmer will not say. Theon is annoyed and says as heir to the Seastone Chair he should be apprised of any plans. Dagmer says that Theon has been away for too long, he is now seen as a Stark and an outsider, that his sister Yara is in line to succeed his father now.
INT. RED KEEP – BEDCHAMBER – NIGHT
CERSEI LANNISTER and LANCEL LANNISTER are having sex. They finish (or, more accurately, Lancel finishes). Lancel is clearly enamored of Cersei, but she is bored of him. She leaves him and heads off into the Red Keep.
INT. RED KEEP – DUNGEONS – NIGHT
Cersei walks through the Red Keep and enters the dungeons. Screaming can be heard. Cersei walks to the cell where the screaming is coming from. TOBHO MOTT is there, chained to a rack. Janos Slynt is torturing Mott, trying to find out what happened to his apprentice, Gendry. Mott eventually leads them to believe that he has been sent to the Wall. Cersei orders Slynt to dispatch Gold Cloaks to track down the party from the Night’s Watch and bring the bastard boy back to King’s Landing.
EXT. DRAGONSTONE DOCKS – DAY
DAVOS SEAWORTH walks down the docks. He enters an inn.
INT. DOCKSIDE INN – DAY
Davos scans the room, he sees Lyseni pirate SALLADHOR SAAN and joins him at his table. They talk of the letter that Stannis has sent out. The whole of Westeros has heard of it by now. Saan tells him he heard of Stannis’s Lightbringer. Davos briefly describes the burning of the Seven and Stannis pulling Lightbringer from the flames. Saan says it’s not the real Lightbringer. He tells the legend of Azor Ahai. Davos insists it’s the Red Priestess, she is leading Stannis astray with her false Lightbringer and her false Red God. Saan says he would agree, but he values his life too much. He takes his leave.
INT. CRASTER’S KEEP – DAY
The Nights Watch has arrived at Craster’s Keep. CRASTER is a wildling who lives beyond the Wall with his dozens of wives and daughters. He meets with Mormont and agrees to let the Watch spend the night and will give information on Mance Rayder’s whereabouts for a price. He wants a new axe. Mormont sends Jon to fetch an axe…
EXT. CRASTER’S KEEP – DAY
Jon goes to fetch an axe from the armory cart, but in the process hears screaming of “Wolf! Wolf!” He goes to find GHOST in amongst a rabbit hutch, with a young, pregnant GIRL trapped in there as well, cowering in fear of the direwolf. Jon calls Ghost off and the girl, who’s name is GILLY, throws herself at Jon’s feet and begs him to take her with him when the Watch leaves. She fears for her baby. If it is a girl, Craster will take her for a wife and she will be forced to serve him for life. “And if it is a boy? What then?” “Worse, much worse.”
INT. VAES TOLORRO – DAY
The three seekers from Qarth introduce themselves to Dany. XARO XHOAN DAXOS is a wealthy merchant prince, PYAT PREE is a leader of the warlocks of Qarth, and QUAITHE is a mysterious priestess from Asshai. Xaro promises that if she comes to Qarth that the Thirteen will lavish her with gifts. Pyat Pree promises to petition the Undying Ones for an audience. Quaithe offers only cryptic warnings. “Beware all in Qarth, for when they see your dragons they will lust, because dragons are fire incarnate, and fire is power.”
EXT. KINGSROAD – DAY
Yoren leads his small party down the Kingsroad. Two Gold Cloaks ride up and stop them. They are looking for a boy, queen’s orders. Yoren refuses to give up his charges. One of the guards threatens him so Yoren puts a sword to his throat, the rest of Yoren’s band also stand behind Yoren, ready to fight if they must. The Gold Cloak runs off, but warns that he will be back with more. “They’re looking for me?” Arya asks. “No, they were looking for me,” Gendry replies. Arya doesn’t understand why they would be looking for Gendry. Either way, Yoren decides it’s best they leave the Kingsroad and advises Gendry and Arya that if they do happen to be overtaken, both of them are to flee to the Wall.
INT. RED KEEP – DAY
The Small Council. Cersei, LITTLEFINGER, GRAND MAESTER PYCELLE, and Tyrion are there. Stannis’ letter has made it to King’s Landing. Cersei is furious. Littlefinger thinks they should spread a vicious rumor about Stannis’ daughter. Tyrion thinks they should do nothing. Cersei thinks Tyrion is an idiot. Tyrion shoots her a witty retort and then leaves.
EXT. KING’S LANDING – DAY
Tyrion and Bronn ride through the city streets. Tyrion gets quite a few dirty stares from the crowd. Him and Bronn talk of the mood of the people in the city. There is a growing famine and though Tyrion has done what he could to increase the food supply, the common folk still go hungry. And they blame Tyrion for it. They arrive at a brothel.
INT. BROTHEL – DAY
Tyrion and Bronn enter the brothel. Tyrion is met by the madame and is taken to a room with a secret passage hidden in a wardrobe. Tyrion climbs down the ladder in the passage.
INT. PASSAGE – DAY
Tyrion gets to the bottom of the ladder and is greeted by Varys with torch in hand. It’s revealed that Tyrion is traveling to meet Shae in secret. They begin walking down the passage. Tyrion tells Varys his absence at the Small Council was noted and mentions Stannis’ letter. Tyrion wonders how Stannis heard of Cersei and Jaime’s incest but Varys doesn’t reveal anything. They emerge from the passage into…
INT. STABLE – DAY
…a stable, where a horse is saddled and ready for Tyrion, along with a cloak to disguise himself. Tyrion mounts up and thanks Varys for his help. Varys is obsequious. “Sometimes I think you’re my best friend in this city, but then other times I feel you’re my worst enemy,” Tyrion tells him. “I feel much the same about you,” Varys replies. Tyrion rides off.
INT. VAES TOLORRO – NIGHT
Dany and Jorah discuss the three seekers from Qarth. Jorah tells Dany that he doesn’t trust any of them, but that staying in Vaes Tolorro would be suicide. He also tells her that Kovarro heard some news while in Qarth: King Robert is dead. Dany is taken aback, but sees it as an opportunity. She tells Jorah they will ride for Qarth at first light.
EXT. CRASTER’S KEEP – NIGHT
Jon wakes in the night to go take a piss. He goes to the edge of the woods to relieve himself, but as he turns back towards the keep, he hears a baby crying. He follows the cries into the woods. He finds Craster, kneeling down, with a crying baby laid at his feet. As he watches, a dark shape with glowing blue eyes appears before Craster. Jon watches in horror as the White Walker picks up the baby and carries it off into the woods. He runs back to the keep before Craster sees him.
INT. PYKE – NIGHT
Theon arrives at the castle and is brought before his father. BALON GREYJOY sits the Seastone Chair, carved in the shape of a kraken. He listens to Theon’s proposal of an alliance with Robb Stark. Balon will lead the Ironborn into battle against Casterly Rock, seizing the castle after Robb draws out its main force. Balon will be declared King of the Iron Islands and Theon will take Casterly Rock as his seat. Theon is proud of this plan, which he helped draft up with Robb. Balon chides Theon on being a glorified errand boy for the Young Wolf. He does not want a crown from the Stark boy. And he believes Casterly Rock is too strong to be taken. Balon tells Theon that he has called his banners and means to declare himself king. Not just of the Iron Islands, but of the whole North.
INT. DRAGONSTONE – NIGHT
Stannis meets with his lords and commanders around the Painted Table. Davos is there, as is his son MATHOS. MELISANDRE is there as well. They are arguing over what Stannis should do first now that he has laid his claim for the Iron Throne. Renly holds the Baratheon ancestral stronghold of Storm’s End and has rallied the Baratheon’s banners to his cause. He has also combined forces with the Tyrells, through a marriage to Margaery Tyrell. Some of Stannis’ lords think it best to ignore Renly and his forces, Dragonstone is very close to King’s Landing, they should just sail down the Blackwater and lay seige to the city. Others think they should defeat Renly first, then add his bannermen to their cause, to ensure victory. Still others want to ally with Robb Stark. Finally, Melisandre speaks up. “My lords, we will sail to Storm’s End. The castle will be ours within a fortnight without a single drop of our soldiers’ blood being shed. I have seen it in the flames.” At this, everyone starts speaking at once. Stannis silences them all and orders them out of the room. They all leave save Melisandre.
“How can you know this?” Stannis asks. Melisandre again says that she has seen it in the flames. “The Red God knows all. His flames never lie.” Stannis is unsure. He is unsettled by Mel’s prophesy and dislikes having to take Storm’s End from Renly; as the elder brother it is now his by rights, just as the Iron Throne is. Melisandre moves in close to Stannis and tells him that if he desires the Iron Throne, he need only obey her, as she can give him what he desires. She kisses him. She pushes him down onto the table and climbs on top of him. As they have sex, the camera zooms into Melisandre’s face, awash with pleasure and power, the ruby at her throat glowing brightly.
END CREDITS
Winter Is Coming: This is really hard to do. I have new found respect for David and Dan and Bryan and George. So many storylines to juggle, it is hard to know what to focus on in each episode. At this juncture of the story I count ten separate storylines (Jon, Bran, Theon, Robb, Renly, Tyrion, Sansa, Stannis, Arya, and Dany). This episode I decided to cut Robb, Renly, Sansa, and Bran’s stories and focus on the other six. I think the above outline would equal out to an hour, but I’m not positive. If it is over, you could probably cut the Davos/Saan scene or trim some of the other scenes like Cersei/Lancel or Theon getting a BJ. If it is under, then I would probably add a scene or two with Sansa and Joffrey or at Robb’s camp. I think saving Catelyn’s arrival to Renly’s camp until episode three is best. And Bran’s storyline is pretty sparse at this point (until Theon arrives in Winterfell, when it picks up) so putting him aside for now makes sense.
As to some of the changes from the book, the opening scene is one we know about due to set reports from Dubrovnik. Same goes for the torture scene with Tobho Mott. The Cleftjaw taking Aeron’s role was an obvious change. Now as to Tyrion not sending Janos Slynt to the Wall, that was one I went back and forth on. Eventually I decided, since they haven’t cast a Jacelyn Bywater, that probably means that Slynt won’t be getting sent to the Wall in the second episode. As to what they will ultimately do with this character? They really have a lot of flexibility. [Spoilers up to ADWD] He could stay until the end of the season and then be banished to the Wall. They could keep him around even longer and maybe have him be Cersei’s catspaw, replacing one of the Kettleblacks. He could even be killed in the battle of the Blackwater. Slynt isn’t really needed at the Wall as Thorne is enough of a foil for Jon and although his death was quite awesome in Dance with Dragons, it is a scene that could easily be cut.
Now about the two new scenes that probably took people by surprise, namely Jon seeing Craster offering the baby to the Walkers and Stannis and Mel getting it on, those are based on rumors I have heard. Those scenes might not be in the show, but I thought they sounded plausible and interesting enough, that I included them in my speculative script.
So there you go. That’s my version of episode two. I am anxious to hear your thoughts. Do you agree with my decisions? What would you have done differently? Do you think we will see Stannis and Melisandre have sex on the Painted Table? Let me know in the comments below.
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84 Comments
First, WOOHOO!!!!
WARZQuote Reply
Better than the first episode treatment, but more tweaks needed:
- Theon will be greeted by the Priest of the Drowned God, not Dagmar.
- The scene with Jon & Rangers at abandoned wildling village will happen in the first episode, this episode will begin with them arriving at Craster’s Keep.
- My gut tells me that VAES TOLORRO has been cut entirely; and the 3 riders scene appears in the empty Red Waste. If there is a second scene, it’s one showing the growing love that Jorah has for Dany.
- More likely a Cersei & Joffery scene, than a Lancel scene, even if your scene is smarter because it can create sexposition.
- The Gold Cloaks will have already gone after Gendry in episode 1, this episode will end with Yoren’s death, Arry’s escape, and saving of the Faceless Man.
No Robb or Jaime or Cat or Bran or Sansa?
In my outline (on my home computer, I’ll post later) I don’t have Cat either, she’s on her way to the coast). But I have Tyrion learning about wildfire, Robb deciding to take the war west, Sansa meeting with Dontos (it just happened in last episode, has to be reinforced in this one). Again, mine ends with the attack and death of Yoren.
Doesn’t read perfect but again, better than the last one.
Honest JerkQuote Reply
Honest Jerk,
I have actually heard that Vaes Tolorro was cut, from the same person who told me about that new scene with Jon and the White Walker. But in the case of Vaes Tolorro it was more of a rumour, so I don’t know how reliable that is.
LisaQuote Reply
I sincerely hope the official script will give us Aeron Greyjoy and not a nameless priest of the Drowned God. I get that they don’t want to introduce major characters if they don’t play a real role in the season, but still…
imaginescenceQuote Reply
I think I would rather see Ghost witness the baby offering and have Jon wake up after a warging session. I mean it kind of takes the horror out of the Others attacking the Fist if the rangers already know for sure that they exist.
dizzy_34Quote Reply
Lisa,
If I had to guess… the White Walker takes baby scene will happen in Episode 3 or 4. In my season break down: We meet Gilly in Episode 2, she gives birth in Episode 3, White Walker gets baby in Episode 4.
And I don’t have Jon (or anyone of the Night’s Watch) seeing the White Walkers. At the most, I could see them knowing the Baby was placed out there. hear the baby wail, then go to look and it’s gone. However, we the audience will see it get taken by our blue-eyed friends.
Honest JerkQuote Reply
Honest Jerk,
Well, I heard it from someone whose friend was an extra and from what I heard Jon will definitely see the White Walker! And it actually makes sense because they need to keep the threat of the White Walkers fresh in the viewers’ minds.
LisaQuote Reply
Thanks! Loved your feedback, so will address each point individually:
I disagree. If they were going to do it that way they would have cast the Damphair. The priest is almost certainly just going to be a bit part with one or two lines. The only one who could then fill the Damphair’s role of providing necessary exposition on the situation in the Iron Islands is Dagmer. (Well, I guess Asha/Yara could do it, but you would then lose the great scene of her tricking Theon.)
You might be right, but I had to work off of FaB’s episode one script which didn’t have any Jon scenes. At any rate, this is more a critique of the ep 1 script. ;)
Yeah, they could cut Vaes Tolorro and no one would miss it. I guess it just depends on what kind of location they used in Croatia. I like your idea of showing the growiing love between Jorah and Dany, certainly some of that can be conveyed in the scene where she decides to go to Qarth.
Maybe both. Like I said, if I have time I would want to add a Joffrey scene. I did want to at least touch on Lancel and Cersei’s relationship in this episode though, as it was one of the “big reveals” from the season one finale and nothing was mentioned of it in episode one.
I disagree with this point. The first KL scenes has to be Joffrey’s name day, Tyrion arriving and a Cersei and Tyrion confrontation. Doesn’t leave much room for the killing of Barra and torturing of Tobho Mott, something we know for a fact is in and something that would have to precede the Gold Cloaks going after Gendry.
And at first I did want to include Amory Lorch’s attack in this episode, as it makes a great episode ender, but I just don’t think it will fit.
Like I said in the post, there are ten (ten!) separate storylines at this point. There is no way you could possibly cover them all in one episode. You pretty much have to cut a few of them each ep (at least until later as they start merging) and these were the ones I chose to cut.
Thanks again for the feedback! I love thinking and discussing about this stuff.
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
Lisa,
All I can say is “Woah!”
If the producers have made that choice, gulp, that’s up their with giving the Reeds the axe IMO. Personally, I think it’s smarter to let the audience forget about the Wight Walkers if that’s all they’re going to appear in this season.
If the season ends (as I end it in my breakdown) with the White Walkers surrounding the Fist and the Night’s Watch… maybe I could see it.
Hmm, you’ve got good friends :)
Honest JerkQuote Reply
Unfortunately the Damphair has been cut from this season. This has already been more or less confirmed.
This is what I heard as well. I also heard it will happen in episode two (hence my inclusion of it here). We shall see if the rumors are true in a few months!
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
Great outline! It is better than mine!
And I agree there probably will have to be some Jon in episode 1.
Fire And BloodQuote Reply
Honest Jerk,
I think it’s not too bad to see them early in the season, just as a little reminder. And to make Jon’s early story more interesting because it was seriously lacking. So, as long as Jon doesn’t fight the White Walker I’m actually fine with it. :) And I’ve heard there’s also a cliffhanger involved in that scene. ;)
LisaQuote Reply
Nice attempt at episode writing. I like the scenes with Tobho Mott and with Craster and the baby – they will make good visual scenes, and will help the TV-only audience connect the dots on what was only strongly hinted in the books.
Regarding your speculation about Janos Slynt in future seasons, I have to disagree: Jon beheading Janos Slynt is one of the best scenes in the series and absolutely must not be cut.
littlejanetQuote Reply
Winter Is Coming,
#1. Again, this breakdown is really good.
#2. Each episode from S1 ended with a cliffhanger/big event. Stannis & Mel “doing it” may happen in this episode (I’d put it in episode 4, which I’d guess would end with Renly’s version of Groundhog’s Day), but it doesn’t feel like a big cliffhanger/big event.
Looking at the novel the best cliffhanger/big event from this part of the novel is Yoren getting attacked/killed, and Arry escaping. So you have to “back track” from then to make some things happen in Episode 1, etc.
To follow that point, in my season breakdown… the season 2 cliffhanger/big event episode enders are:
Episode 1: Yoren kills Gold Cloaks, they have to get off the road.
Episode 2: Yoren dies, Arry escapes
Episode 3: Balon announces plan to attack the North
Episode 4: Renly sees a shadow / Gilly’s baby gets blue eyes.
Episode 5: Mel gives birth / Theon takes Winterfell
Episode 6: Cat frees Jaime (my biggest leap: I know Bran & Rickon hasn’t happened yet, but had to give Jaime something to do)
Episode 7: Theon hangs Bran & Rickon’s corpses from Winterfell gate
Episode 8: Arya frees prisoners, takes Harrenhall / Robb gets married
Episode 9: Blackwater ends with “Renly” saving the day
Episode 10: Bran & Rickon are alive / Fist is surrounded by Wights
Note: not that House of the Undead, or Jon’s journey or other things aren’t HUGE, but don’t feel like episode enders to me. Example: Bronn winning Tyrion’s freedom was a big event, but not an episode ender
Honest JerkQuote Reply
Scene 1 – Arya – the Riverlands
Scene 2 – Theon – On the boat to the Iron Islands
Scene 3 – Littlefinger – King’s Landing brothel
Scene 4 – Jon Snow – Craster’s Keep
Scene 5 – Tyrion – Tower of the Hand
Scene 6 – Arya – the Riverlands
Scene 7 – Tyrion – Council Chambers
Scene 8 – Jon Snow – Craster’s Keep
Scene 9 – Tyrion – Tower of the Hand
Scene 10 – Davos – Dragonstone
Scene 11 – Theon – the Iron Islands
Scene 12 – Tyrion – Tower of the Hand
Scene 13 – Stannis – Dragonstone
Scene 14 – Jon Snow – North of the Wall
That’s my guess! :)
DrNickQuote Reply
Maybe I’m just fixated on Jon in acts of violence, but I think Snow versus the Halfhand deserves to be an episode-ending event. Maybe weasel soup ends Episode 7 and the Halfhand duel ends episode 8?
littlejanetQuote Reply
Okay, I have a question, about that on-location video aired in Iceland. I remember it was said they were filming “5 minutes scenes”. Does it mean there will be only 5 minutes of Jon (and probably other characters) – related scenes every episode?
Does anybody else remember this?
ETA: Also, I really want an episode title to be “The [Blue?] Rose of Winterfell”. Maybe ep 10? (with the whole Bran thing….) I loved that bit
Elena AmiciQuote Reply
littlejanet,
The reason why in my outline I had Jon killing in Half&Half in episode 10 is because they never cast Mance (who only appears in Book 3 anyway).
Supposing that Jon killed Halfhand in 8, didn’t appear in 9 because of Blackwater, then shows up in Ep 10… what would the character have to do? The next plot point would be to meet Mance. I suppose you could have Jon get his scar.
It is interesting to think about.
Honest JerkQuote Reply
this script is rather horrible, I’m sorry but you are taking some SERIOUS liberties here. Jon witnessing Craster give a baby to an other? Where the hell did you get that from? Not only was it never seen in the story (only hinted at), but if Jon told Mormont about it, the first thing they do is arrest craster on the spot. One thing is to overlook Craster his incestous way of life, and another is to know he’s serving the others and ignore it.
Sorry, but that is not going to happen, and I’m beyond surprised you think there’s even a slight chance of it.
CharlesQuote Reply
Well I think it’s a stretch to say that every S1 episode ended with a cliffhanger. Episode 7 comes to mind as an exception, with Sansa pleading for her father’s life as the ending scene. But yeah, I agree trying to find the cliffhangers for each episode and working backwards is an easy way to plot out your episodes.
And for the most part, I agree with your list. I see that you have Balon revealing his plans as one of your episode enders, which I have just before the Stannis/Mel sex scene, so, just swap those and there you go. :)
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
Great breakdown. But how can we fit that much into one episode? It seems like a lot of information.
SamQuote Reply
This is a clever but nevertheless pointless exercise .We know from interviews that Jaime appears as early as Episode 1 and we know that Robb is going to feature heavily as well.Look for the whole Brienne/Jaime storyline to be pulled in far earlier.Don’t forget that the writers have already stated that the entire Deny storyline is to be re-jigged.This won’t be like the books but it promises to be very entertaining.
ZerowolfQuote Reply
I explained where I got it from in the post. It is a rumor that I have heard from multiple sources.
I went off the general rule we established last season which was 100 book pages roughly equals 60 script pages or one hour of filmed scenes. I can’t know for sure if all of this could fit in a 60 page screenplay without scripting the whole thing myself, which would be a lot of fun but ultimately I just don’t have the time to do it.
It may be pointless, but I enjoy it! Plus what else are we going to discuss? Religion? Boring.
Jaime is in our version of episode one, so is Robb. I have more inside info about Robb’s storyline changes, but those scenes won’t show up until later eps. I did once propose the Brienne/Jaime storyline being advanced to this season, but I’m starting to think they won’t have the time to do it. The Dany storyline will be expanded, but not until they arrive in Qarth. And I agree with your last statement 100%. Can’t wait to see the real thing!
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
IIRC the whole sacrificing babies thing was brought to Mormont’s attention and he said that he knew, but since Craster has always been a friend of the watch, the don’t do anything. And of course, that’s just one of the many things that will lead to Mormont’s downfall.
KevinQuote Reply
Very good!!!! Do you know for sure S2 is only 10 hours?
scottQuote Reply
Only a short question:
I’m not sure that the relationship of Mel and Stannis is so close. Stannis is not full of lust like his brother Robert [He send all whores from Dragonstone away, despise Robert for Edric Storm]. I think the relationship between him and the red priestess is only platonic [for the beginning, maybe this change after Blackwater]. In the Mel chapter in aDwD I have not the feeling that Mel is thinking of Stannis in great desire.
Sorry but in my opinion book Stannis and Mel have no sex (this is only a rumor). The show Mel and Stannis have it may be, but then after bw or first in season 3.
Your opinion?
No-OneQuote Reply
i can’t believe the other thing is serious. Who ever wrote that is not a fan of the series. They are trading coherence for cheap shock value. There is no way in hell that scene works in the books, its so implausible it should make any fan pissed off at the possibility of its inclusion.
CharlesQuote Reply
” Closeup on THEON GREYJOY’s face. He looks pleased. Zoom out to reveal a woman kneeling before him. Theon finishes. The CAPTAIN’S DAUGHTER tells Theon that was her first time. “Imagine that, the first cock you sucked belongs to the son of Balon Greyjoy and a future Hand of the King.” Theon tells her of Robb’s plans and that he is heading to Pyke to ask his father to join Robb’s cause. A call from above deck. “Take me with you, milord! I can be your salt wife.” Theon laughs and departs.”
Wic, your scene between Theon and the Captain´s daughter made me want to be Ramsay, just for a little while, and feast on Theon´s pain. I mean, I don´t want to bite my index finger and scream “Vendetta” but … I will. How cruel he can be.
I think this is good for you if it´s what you wanted to achieve.
andreaQuote Reply
This is really great stuff! I very much appreciate how difficult writing an abridgement like this is (and yet… rewarding?) and had great fun reading it! I obviously have a few quibbles though ;p
One of them is that I don’t think we’ll see Stan and Mel get it on so early in the series – I think that aspect of their relationship is conveyed very well in the books through the attitudes of Selyse/Mel/Stan to each other, and that sexual/marital tension is maintained with the element of doubt, which I think is quite important. For an on-screen example of what I mean, in the recent season of Boardwalk Empire (which imo was head and shoulders above the first season in terms of quality) we climactically witness the incest between Jimmy and his mother which has been strongly hinted at since episode one. Denying the audience information creates the tension which reinforces the sense of adulterous taboo that (in my opinion) is central to Mel and Stannis’s relationship: Stannis is the patron saint of duty, and yet cheats on his wife in order to gain power (or does he…)
So yes, if in this adaptation Stannis does shag Mel, I think it should be conveyed through lingering looks and unsubtle hints until we dramatically witness the rutting writ large towards the end of this season (or later in the series). As much as I love this show, it could learn something about delayed gratification ;)
As an aside, will we see a Selyse this season? Has she been cast?
Also, I actually like your leaving out of some characters – from a realistic point of view it’s the only way forward with a cast this large if you want any kind of character arc over the length of an episode. And I thought the leaving-aside-til-later of certain characters during certain episodes towards the end of last season worked quite well, and will work better now that the leads are more established.
My other comments…well… As number 1 was such a chunky paragraph and it’s getting late, I think I’ll leave be for the moment and return in the morning!
Again, many thanks guys – this must have been a labour of love to write – especially knowing that it will be obsolete and possibly debunked in the Spring, and ripped to shreds by us in the present! But we enjoy it really :)
Quite.
EvilPicnicQuote Reply
“CERSEI LANNISTER and LANCEL LANNISTER are having sex. They finish (or, more accurately, Lancel finishes).”
And now you owe me a new keyboard!
But yeah good job, all sounds fairly plausible to me. I can totally see there being a sex scene with Mel and Stannis, however, I don’t think it would be on the painted table but…. I could of course be wrong about that.
John-Michael LelievreQuote Reply
Blue Bolt VFX may be involved with parts of the season 2 visual effects again. Look at that job description…
http://portal.makingfx.net/archives/628
juseasQuote Reply
Think that I concur with EvilPicnic on Mel/Stannis/Selyse relationship creating tension and questions on what is really going on. This should build for at least one season. Also makes sense to see Stannis slowly being drawn into her power and the captivation of him in all aspects of his personality.
Patchy faceQuote Reply
But great job though. Flows very nicely!
Patchy faceQuote Reply
I think they’ll replace Jacelyn Bywater by having Tyrion promote Bronn to Commander of the City Watch, rather than leave Janos in King’s Landing.
FilliamHMuffmanQuote Reply
What the… why on earth would you not include the meeting of Theon with Asha in disguise? That is like the funniest scene in the entire series.
userjQuote Reply
userj, I think you misunderstood me. I do want to include it, that is why I had Dagmer take Aeron’s place and not Asha. This way Asha, er… Yara, can still trick Theon in episode 3 or 4.
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
Patchy face,
I’d have to disagree in some respects with yourself and Evilpicnic. While I would like to see the seduction of Stannis by Melisandre played out in a slower and more subtle fashion, like you describe, we have to remember that the show has 10 hours to set up these characters, define their relationships and then see them through their story arc for the book. If it’s a bit more obvious a la Renly and Loras’s relationship in S1 then I’m willing to accept that compromise. As an aside, would you consider yourself a purist for the books or are you willing to go with D&D’s creative flourishes as long as the characters end up in the same places?
DrNickQuote Reply
DrNick,
Nope – don’t consider myself a purist as long as the major points of the story remain in place…realize that there is definitely limited time to get the story across but for the Mel/Stannis plotline, we will have more than this season. (Anyway, sure hope so!) Just looking for more tension in the build up of that very major relationship. You are absolutely correct on the Renly/Loras piece & thought this did help clarify plot (and plotting) but as the Mel character is the one of the most mysterious in the story, thought it would be apt to keep some things under wraps for awhile.. though I am sure however D&D decide to go forward will be well done. Guess we will see!!
PatchfaceyQuote Reply
I hadn’t actually read your comment when I wrote mine, I just thought that “Asha”/Theon happened before Theon met Balon.
If you’re going to put it in Ep 3 or 4 I guess that’s ok, I just thought it happened earlier – maybe I’m just wrong. :)
My prediction would actually be that Asha/Yara meets Theon off the ship directly. Even more of an insult to Theon to send some crofter’s daughter to fetch him.
userjQuote Reply
Oh! Also, why cut the scene where Jorah and Dany talk about Lynesse Hightower? That happens before they get to Qarth and is quite significant because it’s when she/the audience realizes he wants in her pants.
… I suppose there’s no reason it can’t happen in Qarth instead of the Red Waste, but why?
Not to mention, why lump in the bit where they find out about Robert’s Death here? Little enough happens in Qarth with Dany and co – you certainly don’t need to be stealing the only significant event from Dany Ch 2 and making it an aside.
userjQuote Reply
Yeah, Asha doesn’t mess with Theon until after he meets with Balon. It happens on the way back to port. I don’t know if having her meet Theon right off the boat works because you need someone who can fill Theon (and the viewers) in on the situation on the Iron Islands and Asha pretending to be a crofters daughter can’t really do that.
I should have included the conversation between Jorah and Dany where we start to see he loves her, that was a miss on my part. The good thing is it can be easily added to their last scene.
The reason I added the bit about Robert dying here was to add a little more incentive for Dany to go to Qarth. I know they will be adding more scenes in Qarth that weren’t in the book, so I think moving this moment forward doesn’t hurt her future storyline.
Great comments, userj!
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
Is anyone here actually gonna call Asha “Yara”? haha… I probably won’t.
John-Michael LelievreQuote Reply
I just hope they don’t shortchange the baptisms.
Kai Alexis PriceQuote Reply
Obviously they do, even if it’s purely “professional” – that’s how assassin shadows are made, check the Davos POV chapter where he rows Melisandre under Storm’s End
One minor thing concerning the script (which is pretty decent, BTW :))
I have a faint feeling that Doreah will not die. I know, that she should, but her character is the most well built-up among Dany’s handmaids, if it has to be one, I think it’ll be Jhiqui (though then we’ll lose the - … it is known. – It is known. lines… :D)
FelagundQuote Reply
Grrr! Someone wake me up on April 11th please!
UdiQuote Reply
Felagund,
Head –> Wall
I’ve forgot the shadow babe. Thank you for remind.
Then, yes, they have sex, but like you write,
No-OneQuote Reply
andrea,
You just broke my heart. How can you not understand that Theon is just misunderstood?
(I already started writing a Theon Apology which I’m going to post when it’s time. The guy deserves a little love)
Jon DID tell Mormont about it. “He gives his sons to the cold” or something like that.
Also, show, don’t tell. This is how TV works – I think this post is great
amen to this. It’s an awesome bit, which would be even more awesomest in the show. Also, ya know, foreshadowing. We all know that when a Stark does that thing to somebody at the beginning of the book, something is going to happen to the aforesaid Stark by the end of that book ;)
:D
just asking: shouldn’t we use spoiler tags?
Elena AmiciQuote Reply
Yawwwwwn!
Is it April 12 yet?
UdiQuote Reply
^This!
And it really does make sense imo to show Craster actually doing it because a) it’s creepy and adds a bit excitement to Jon’s early storyline, b) it’s much more impressive to actually see Craster doing the deed and c) it reminds the viewer of the threat the White Walkers pose. Otherwise they could be easily forgotten and everyone would just go “What about those weird guys from the first episode?”.
LisaQuote Reply
I don’t think it’s the witnessing of Craster’s act so much as the logic of seeing an Other before the attack on the Fist. (However we don’t “see” an Other till Sam’s POV later on in the book). I get that it’s a different medium and all but I’m sure Mormont and all the other rangers were quite aware that Caster did something wierd with his sons prior to Jon telling him. Jon actually seeing a white walker would probably make Mormont want head straight back to the wall and say to hell with Mance Rayder.
dizzy_34Quote Reply
I´m sorry Elena but it´s true. You have to blame Wic who captures very well Theon´s cruelty in that scene. After AFFC I felt pity for Theon just because I had forgotten who he really was. Psychology gave this argument to all villains: you´re misunderstood, poor you. I no longer believe that. He can redeem himself, of course and I`ll wate for your Theon`s Apology. Maybe you can persuade me.
andreaQuote Reply
Mormont actually responds that the Watch has always known, but there is nothing to be done.
MagnusQuote Reply
I’m sorry but do you really think that Mormont would head straight back to the Wall because Jon has seen a White Walker? Mormont knows that there are White Walkers and wights and everything out there!
LisaQuote Reply
The scene is actually worse in the book, because there he had intercourse with her several times and probably made her pregnant. And he gloats about it even though he knows that this means that her father is going to leave her at the next port.
MagnusQuote Reply
The hard evidence is the wight but they still didn’t know for sure, just the speculations of people they believed to be mad. They rode out to see what Mance was up to and find Benjen if they could. Fighting White Walkers was not on the agenda.
I’m not saying a scene like this is not going to work, but I think it would be better if it wasn’t so clear that the Others were who Craster was cohorting with. Especially since it’s only hinted at in the books.
dizzy_34Quote Reply
Magnus,
Right, I forgot about that. Much much worst then.
And what about this: Theon says he didn´t kill Bran and Rickon but only the miller’s children.
Yes! you know just some poor stupid children… Who cares???
See Elena? it´ll be hard work this apology of yours.
andreaQuote Reply
Have to agree that while some of the Night’s Watch may fear the Others are out there, nobody KNOWS it until the Fist. I am fine with showing us this, but not Jon. That’s a poor choice, in my opinion, and unnecessary.
James BrookesQuote Reply
One other thing I have not seen anyone commenting on. I dislike the small council treatment, and Slynt not being sent to the Wall. Tyrion demonstrates he is actually a very good Hand and a masterful player of the game by his actions, not in just throwing out flippant one-liners and banging Shae. It makes it all the more heartbreaking as a reader when later on his work is dismissed so flippantly at the end of the book/season.
Regarding “not casting Bywater” don’t we have an actor cast as a gold cloak? Casting an actor as a gold cloak indicates to me that there is a specific role intended for that individual, and a good bet to take over as commander of the gold cloaks after Slynt is exiled to the Wall.
James BrookesQuote Reply
I didn’t see fans complain when Sandor killed that butcher’s boy so why should I care about two no names characters that no one gives a shit about ? Then again the hypocrisy is strong within this community .
JohnQuote Reply
You know that the community doesn’t operate as a hive mind, right? A community cannot be declared hypocritical because it is entirely possible for the collective group to contain many people with wildly different individual opinions.
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
John,
It is true, in ASOIAF many children are ruthlessly killed but I wasn´t talking about that. It would be nice that you read the comments more carefully before dropping unnecessary and exaggerated insults . Theon uses the miller’s sons murders as a morally valid excuse for him.
andreaQuote Reply
Charles
Why the vitriol dude? It’s not ‘horrible’ just because you disagree with one (perfectly plausible in my opinion) decision.
I think it’s a great effort. As you say, respect to the writers of the show juggling all the storylines and making it flow coherently as one episode.
On a related note, I have near finished ADWD and I have to say I think it’s almost unfilmable. I predict the TV programme will get to the end of book three and stop. Which would be a pretty good climactic place to finish anyway (*thunk*).
RossQuote Reply
[[[[[Sex: Captain’s daughter and Theon, Cersei and Lancel, Stannis and Melisandre]]]]]
You mentioned many sex scenes. I think they only go to show the scene of Theon
[[[[More likely a Cersei & Joffery scene, than a Lancel scene, even if it can create sexposition]]]]
What? ¿Incest between mother and son? OMG hahahaha
julandroQuote Reply
that’s the basis of my argumentation. Double Standars. As readers/viewers, we are more invested in the characters we know, rather than in the ones we don’t know/care about. Many characters have killed children/caused their death, and I’m not just talking about fan-favorites Jaime & Sandor. Saint Ned’s integrity caused way more deads than Theon’s impulsive and stupid behavior.
Anyway andrea,
here’s a really rough first draft of the Theon apology which addresses (1)the death of the miller’s kids, (2)the girl on the boat and (3)the whole “betrayal” thing. So, it’s about Clash only, there’s nothing regarding Dance.
Clash spoilers, of course. Plus a Tyrion!Storm spoiler under tag :)
1)Fake!Starks deaths: I don’t give a crap about the miller’s kid, and neither doesn anybody here. The only difference is that I admit it. Many people may dislike Theon action because HE KILLED KIDS, but so did many others, who aren’t as hated as he is.
2)The girl on the boat. This was just plain mean, I agree. Theon is weak, and thus he feels he has to be cruel to “lower” people. This is the plain, simple truth. He deflowered a girl, knocked her up and ruined her life. But, again, it’s not like it was an unusual thing among nobles in Westeros. We think it’s horrible, but it would have been considered normal back there. The key point is the fact that Theon didn’t even realize fully what he was doing. I don’t think we can judge ASOIAF/Got characters by modern standard. Anyway, to go back to my “double standard” topic: nobody really cares about Walder Frey’s many, many women (people hate Fray, but not because of this) and Tyrion also ruined the lives of a couple of girls. First, there’s Tysha (I’m not a Tyrion fan, and I hate how he keep thinking about her and how he (and many readers) think he’s the victim. He RAPED her, for fuck’s sake, and he doesn’t even realize that Tysha must hate him by now). Second, Shae. He wanted a fantasy he could fall in love with and, when she (a prostitute) slept with anothe woman, he killed her. No amount of “giant of Lannister” can justify her death.
So, I think this whole part (about the girl) isn’t that important. Maybe I’m a cynical, but this is the way things are. I dislike the act, but I don’t think it’s enough to call Theon “bad”.
3)The betrayal.
Anyway, the main reason why people dislike Theon in the first place is because he betrayed the Starks, and many people like the Starks. I think his “betrayal” can be debated – while we know he was found of Robb, let’s not forget that Theon is a weak person. He didn’t plan to betray robb, he was just influenced by his father. And it’s not like Theon caused much damage anyway. Yeah, he took Winterfell which is the symbol of the Stark power in the North but, apart from that, he didn’t much. Ramsay was the one who made the bigger mess and, while he did what he did because of Theon, how can we know he wasn’t going to do it anyway? I think Theon’s actions toward the Starks are comparable to what Arya did at Harrenhall or Jaime did to the Targs. Of course, Aerys was a horrible human being who deserved to die, but Jaime’s betrayal caused way more damage than Theon’s. Arya was a prisoner, but it can be argued that Theon also was.
It all depends on your POV. I’m not saying Theon is innocent, I’m just saying he doesn’t deserve half the hate he gets, especially since it’s not like the other main characters are good people.
PS:John. How is this community hypocritical? I don’t get it.
If you’re referring to this blog, I really don’t think so. What I really like about this website is that we can talk about stuff (see the religions debate) and say whatever we want, even if other people don’t like it.
If you’re referring to the whole ASOIAF/GoT community, I admit there’s some hypocrisy going on at westeros, where you can’t criticize GRRM or the admins, but this is the only nitpick I can do. If you are referring to people’s attitude in regard to some issues, I think it’s normal. ASOIAF is a series which can be read in many different way, and it’s just normal that people don’t agree about it.
Elena AmiciQuote Reply
Elena Amici,
The reason I feel SOME sympathy for Theon is:
He feels he has a HUGE amount to prove – to the Starks, to his father, to his sister, to himself and is deperate to be loved / admired / respected. At Winterfell he is overshadowed by the Stark siblings all his life. He clings on to being heir of the Iron Islands to boost his self-worth… but when this is shattered too (his massively deflating homecoming is one of the most depressing chapters in the whole series – I really hope they capture that in the series), he becomes increasingly desperate to prove himself. Basically he’s a very insecure individual with a massive chip on his shoulder who descends into a spiral of self-destructive behaviour to prove himself.
And then of course you can’t help but feel a degree of sympathy with the Reek chapters.
BUT none of this excuses butchering the millers family in my opinion. I understand why he made this desperate move, but it is too far.
But then, I am upset by any child death in ASOIAF. The training of the Unsullied still gets to me now. Eurgh.
RossQuote Reply
Ross,
Because it’s not perfectly plausible, and anyone who has read the books would know that.
CharlesQuote Reply
Charles,
I’ve read the books and I disagree. But I’m no purist – if there’s a compelling reason to make a change for the purpose of television, I’m happy with it. The argument that it keeps the White Walkers top of mind for viewers, very quickly demonstrates what Craster is all about, and very effectively gives the viewer a reason to be concerned for the welfare of Gilly’s baby, cheer Craster’s demise AND demonstrate Mormont’s laissez-faire attitude is compelling enough for me.
RossQuote Reply
I completely agree – to me Theon isn’t the ‘baddie’ that many people seem to see him as (often just because ‘he betrayed the Starks’) There is a double-standard and if you weigh up his actions and intentions compared to other more ‘heroic’ characters there isn’t all that much of a difference.
Theon is pitiful, and weak and easily manipulated – but he grew up as a hostage of the man who killed his brothers and is more or less disowned by his father and the rest of his family. He doesn’t fit in with the Starks or the Greyjoys, is used and abused by both, and is then completely destroyed by the Boltons. And I think by now (as of aDwD) he has pretty much done his time for his cruelties and stupid mistakes.
One of the highlights of aDwD for me was Theon’s gradual regaining of his sanity and sense of agency – and I believing his rescuing of Jeyne (though not entirely selfless) is his personal redemption.
EvilPicnicQuote Reply
“Hive mind”………lol..Like it ..Nice job on the scripting.Thanks for your efforts, I know this must have taken some time to write. I love these type of posts and the comments, critisisms and differing opinions that follow.
Re. Others/White walkers……….I like the idea of seeing them take Crasters baby. I cant wait to see them on screen again. Whether Jon should see the exchange or not is debatable. Personally, I like the idea suggested by a previous commenter that Ghost witnesses the baby hand over , and Jon sees it through his eyes in a wolf dream.
What exactly do the Others do with these babies? They must have some use for them, or why do a deal with Craster? And thats another point, can the Others be negotiated with? Apparently! Its been a while since I read ACOK, If these things were covered in the books , feel free to point and laugh.
Two FeathersQuote Reply
EvilPicnic,
Discussion on Theon is fascinating to me — never hated him. basically see him as a very confused and misguided individual. However, after seeing some flashes of conscience in ADWD, actually am hoping something more positive happens to him and he has an opportunity to prove his worth. (though don’t know after reading GRRMs gift chapter online).
Patchy faceQuote Reply
Elena Amici,
Give me some time Elena. I´m reading your arguments. Thanks for that, by the way.
Perhaps you don´t fully understand what I was trying to say so I will explain.
andreaQuote Reply
Ross,
It makes no sense because he’s witnessing something that should put everyone on high alert. It’s not like Jon is in bad standing with Mormont. If that would have happened in the books, the first thing jon does is tell Mormont. Mormont already knows that wights exist, he’s not going to ignore DIRECT EVIDENCE of others being near and Craster working for/with them.
There is no credible way to ignore that scene. One thing is to let it go when there are rumours of Craster sacrificing children, another is to do nothing when you have a trusted source tell you he saw an other around the corner where your whole party is camped.
CharlesQuote Reply
Elena Amici
What you wrote isn’t so much “an apology” for Theon’s actions. An apology is admitting what one has done is wrong, that one feels remorse for it, and then trying to make amends when possible. No, what you’ve done is try to excuse all of Theon’s actions as being okay. Which they aren’t.
userjQuote Reply
no. I simply pointed out that what Theon did was (2)justified by the contest he lives in (the girl) and (1)&(3) comparable to other charcter’s actions. The only difference is that those aforesaid characters are always excused by their fans (don’t get me wrong, i LOVE Jaime. But he isn’t as bashed as Theon is)
BTW, english is not my first language so I could have used the word “apology” in the wrong way, but I doubt it. When Plato wrote his Apology, he definitively didn’t think Socrates was guilty of anything, and this is what I meant in my post. (i’m not being intellectual :D this is just the main example of the word “apology” i can think about)
andrea,
okay, go ahead and take your time if you want to answer. (I needed 30 minutes to write that :D) I simply wanted to let you know what I think, so nobody will be too puzzled when S2 will start.
BTW, @andrea & @userj: What I think (and what i was trying to say) is simply that, while Theon isn’t a saint, he doesn’t deserve half the hate he gets from the fandom. And I guess we all know it’s true
agreed.
BTW, I really want to see the HBOthers again.
Charles,
But the point is that Mormont already knows that Craster has something going on. He basically thinks that he’s too useful to the Watch to be killed, and I think he also doesn’t want to take that responsability
Elena AmiciQuote Reply
Elena Amici,
In latin languages your use of the word Apology is correct. You are defending something or someone controversial, like you’re a lawyer. Is not like you´re apologizing for someone else.
jijijiji I’m explaining an English translation… I´m just ridiculous, sorry.
I need to translate something in my response (it´s a mess right now). Read it tomorrow.
andreaQuote Reply
Elena Amici,
Explanation : Though I never hated Theon, I definitely am not making excuses for what he did … That was another “throw the book across the room” moment.
Patchy faceQuote Reply
Is there a chance of Tyrion and Slynt’s conversation before Slynt is sent to the wall making it into the show? (Chapter Tyrion 2). I thought that was really well done and would make for some very good material for the show, really hoping that makes the cut!
DanielQuote Reply
The tao of Theon and description best describing him came from maester Luwin. Conflicted as he may ( have been ) his choices were always poor and evident of his self absorbed notions of power. He believed himself a cruel prince and his godawful father a king. Even as a ward of Eddard Stark he was treated with dignity and claimed a close connection with Robb. Theon’s weak character traits and poor judgement made me ill. I pitied him as he struggled with his conflicts of knowing the honorable thing to do and maximizing the shock and awe effect that he confuses with respect. Even Asha was shocked by his actions and she was not only his sister but rival and peer from his homeland. Still, I wished he were able to take the ” Black”.
WildSeedQuote Reply
The character I am most surprised about is Ros, the prostitute from Winterfell who ends up in maester Pycelle’s bed. She seems strategically placed ( albeit invented), I wonder what she’s up to. Then there is Hot Pocket the craven boy, he does have a role in the kitchens but I would have preferred maester Cressen’s depiction of Stannis and Renley’s youth and developing characters. What we viewers have instead (I would imagine ) is a rush to present the adult versions of their personalities unexplained. I do hope the writers develop the Direwolves story and less Winterfell Crow ( though I have a soft spot for Lord Mormont’s crow).
WildSeedQuote Reply
First of all I should make it clear that I don´t hate or love ASOIAF´s characters. Yes, it seems I´m a cold fish. You know the characters I like: Tormund, Edd, Strong Belwas, Brynden Tully, Mance and some other wildlings for sure. Secondary or completely dispensable characters and those that make me laugh. The rest I find it more or less interesting but similar to each other. To be honest I think I like the actors (GoT) more than their characters. o_O From the main characters I really like Arya, Bran and Jon. But I have no special sympathy because they are Stark, Lannister, Greyjoy or Gonzalez, actually I don´t give a damn about that.
Not that I’m not interested in the gray morality and ambiguity of all these characters, that’s fine but sometimes I think absolutes are the most inspiring. Lately I have found that the only characters I really love are the good ones, not saints, not infallible (ok, not absolutes) but fundamentally good, kind, amable … unreal? you could say that … but I’m kind of tired of bad people. Dickens type of characters, those good to death souls or George Bailey from “It´s a wonderful life” (Capra)…those are the ones I truly love. But, don´t mind me Elena, I´m getting old and I´m digress. So I don´t hate Theon or any other fictitious character. My intention is never to “attack” them with my mighty hatred. In fact, I think that the wicked are needed, some more than others and for different reasons, and so on. Psychologically everyone has an explanation. Also Ramsay or Aerys. I guess no one still believes that diabolic people really exists, surely everything can be explained with some psychiatric illness. If I have a strong reaction to some characters it doesn´t mean I hate them to death, you know this. It’s just a passing feeling and in any case is never against a character but what the author is telling through him. You say we cannot judge Middle Ages with modern standards but all things, good and bad, were always the same imo. We´re not more civilized … we´re more subtle in wickedness if you like (and sometimes not even that). That´s why I can say that killing children, abusing ignorant women or killing innocent men it will always be wrong no matter the era. And weakness of character is not an excuse. This doesn´t mean one shouldn´t write about this miseries. We would have lost great literature and cinema if not. But the character has to have a serious conflict after the deed. He can´t excuse himself with such frivolity if he´s not bad or stupid (not even Ivan Karamasov). One example: Macbeth.
You’re right about the other characters, of course, but in this case I was talking about Theon as I did about Catelyn or Tyrion or Jaime in the past.
I doubt very much that you don´t mind cruelty. And yes Elena, I think it´s enough reason.
Anyway, Theon is a well written character, and that´s the only thing that matters.
Blah, blah, blah, I´m sorry, I wrote too much.
andreaQuote Reply
I know I’m late on this one but would love an answer -
The only thing that strikes me strange here is the insistence that Janos Slynt is being utilized so much. This guy was barely onscreen for one blink in season one – there’s barely any time here for our main characters, as you note, so why do you think they will keep bringing Janos back as more than just background muscle?
ZachQuote Reply
Elena Amici,
While I do agree with a lot of what you’re saying, and I do think there are a lot of double standards going around, I feel obligated to point out that it is utterly ridiculous to suggest that Theon is just weak and misunderstood and “didn’t fully understand what he was doing” and in the same breath codemn Tyrion for something he did when he was thirteen years old and lied to and manipulated and forced to participate in a sexual act by his father. Yes he raped her and no he was not the only victim, but he certainly was A victim.
Talk about double standards.
MarieQuote Reply
“Any fan” meaning you?
I think you and other purists are going to be extremely disappointed this season. Just a hunch.
Steven SwansonQuote Reply
Not absolutely, ABSOLUTELY!
It’s one of those scenes, you can never stop thinking about, those making ASoIaF what it really is.
GrzebykKQuote Reply
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