HBO releases details and summaries of first five eps
By Winter Is Coming on in News.

HBO has issued a press release with the details and summaries of the first five episodes of season two of Game of Thrones. The full press release is after the break. Be warned that the episode summaries WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS!

Aside from the episode summaries, the only new information we learn from this is that the recently-revealed season two writer Vanessa Taylor has penned episode four, while Benioff & Weiss have written episodes one and two.

The full release:

EMMY®- AND GOLDEN GLOBE-WINNING HBO SERIES GAME OF THRONES BEGINS ITS SECOND SEASON APRIL 1

War is coming to Westeros.  As the cold winds rise and five kings vie for power, bonds are forged and broken, identities are challenged and romance blossoms.  With the stakes higher than ever before, who will survive the chaos to claim the Iron Throne?

Based on the bestselling fantasy book series by George R.R. Martin, GAME OF THRONES is an epic drama set in the world of Westeros, where ambitious men and women of both honor and ill-repute live in a land whose summers and winters can last years.  The Emmy®- and Golden Globe-winning fantasy series begins its second season SUNDAY, APRIL 1 (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET/PT), exclusively on HBO, followed by other episodes on subsequent Sundays at the same time.

Created and executive produced by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss, the ten-episode second season of GAME OF THRONES plays out against the backdrop of a fast-approaching winter – the season of the white raven.  In King’s Landing, the coveted Iron Throne is occupied by cruel young Joffrey, counseled by his conniving mother Cersei and his uncle Tyrion, who has been appointed Hand of the King.

But the Lannister hold on the Throne is under assault on many fronts.  Robb Stark, son of Ned Stark, the slain Lord of Winterfell, seeks autonomy in the North and has taken Cersei’s brother Jaime prisoner in battle.  Daenerys Targaryen looks to shore up her depleted power in the East with her three newborn dragons.  Stannis Baratheon, brother of the late King Robert, rejects Joffrey’s legitimacy and aligns with a powerful priestess to raise a naval attack.  And Renly, Stannis’ charismatic brother, has maintained his own claim since fleeing King’s Landing.

In the meantime, a new leader is rising among the wildlings North of the Wall, adding fresh perils for Jon Snow and the order of the Night’s Watch.  With tensions and treaties, animosity and alliances, the second season of GAME OF THRONES will be a thrilling journey through an unforgettable landscape.

Returning cast members include:  Emmy® and Golden Globe winner Peter Dinklage (Tyrion Lannister), Michelle Fairley (Catelyn Stark), Lena Headey (Cersei Lannister), Emilia Clarke (Daenerys Targaryen), Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jaime Lannister), Aidan Gillen (Petyr “Littlefinger” Baelish), Iain Glen (Jorah Mormont), Kit Harington (Jon Snow), Richard Madden (Robb Stark), Maisie Williams (Arya Stark), Isaac Hempstead Wright (Bran Stark), Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark), Jack Gleeson (Joffrey Baratheon), Alfie Allen (Theon Greyjoy) and Rory McCann (Sandor “The Hound” Clegane).

Also returning for the second season are:  Charles Dance (Tywin Lannister), Jerome Flynn (Bronn), Conleth Hill (Varys), John Bradley (Samwell Tarly), James Cosmo (Commander Mormont), Sibel Kekilli (Shae), Donald Sumpter (Maester Luwin), Ron Donachie (Rodrik Cassel) and Gethin Anthony (Renly Baratheon).

New cast members in the second season include:  Stephen Dillane (Stannis Baratheon), Gwendoline Christie (Brienne), Carice van Houten (Melisandre), Liam Cunningham (Davos Seaworth), Natalie Dormer (Margaery Tyrell) and Rose Leslie (Ygritte).

April’s episodes:

Episode #11:  “The North Remembers”
Debut:  SUNDAY, APRIL 1 (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET/PT)
Other HBO playdates:  April 1 (10:00 p.m., 11:00 p.m.), 3 (11:05 p.m.), 4 (10:00 p.m.) and 7 (10:15 p.m.)
HBO2 playdates:  April 2 (9:00 p.m.), 5 (8:00 p.m.), 6 (midnight), 8 (4:00 p.m.) and 20 (9:00 p.m.)
As Robb Stark and his northern army continue the war against the Lannisters, Tyrion arrives in King’s Landing to counsel Joffrey and temper the young king’s excesses.  On the island of Dragonstone, Stannis Baratheon plots an invasion to claim his late brother’s throne, allying himself with the fiery Melisandre, a strange priestess of a stranger god.  Across the sea, Daenerys, her three young dragons and khalasar trek through the Red Waste in search of allies, or water.  In the North, Bran presides over a threadbare Winterfell, while beyond the Wall, Jon Snow and the Night’s Watch must shelter with a devious wildling.
Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by Alan Taylor.

Episode #12:  “The Night Lands”
Debut:  SUNDAY, APRIL 8 (9:00-10:00 p.m.)
Other HBO playdates:  April 8 (11:00 p.m.), 10 (11:00 p.m.), 11 (10:00 p.m.) and 14 (1:00 a.m. ET/11:45 p.m. PT)
HBO2 playdates:  April 9 (9:00 p.m.), 12 (8:00 p.m.), 13 (midnight), 15 (2:35 p.m.) and 20 (10:00 p.m.)
In the wake of a bloody purge in the capital, Tyrion chastens Cersei for alienating the king’s subjects.  On the road north, Arya shares a secret with Gendry, a Night’s Watch recruit.  With supplies dwindling, one of Dany’s scouts returns with news of their position.  After nine years as a Stark ward, Theon Greyjoy reunites with his father Balon, who wants to restore the ancient Kingdom of the Iron Islands.  Davos enlists Salladhor Saan, a pirate, to join forces with Stannis and Melisandre for a naval invasion of King’s Landing.
Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by Alan Taylor.

Episode #13:  “What Is Dead May Never Die”
Debut:  SUNDAY, APRIL 15 (9:00-10:00 p.m.)
Other HBO playdates:  April 15 (11:05 p.m.), 17 (11:00 p.m.), 18 (10:05 p.m.) and 21 (11:00 p.m.)
HBO2 playdates:  April 16 (8:00 p.m.), 19 (8:00 p.m.), 20 (11:00 p.m.) and 22 (6:00 p.m.)
At the Red Keep, Tyrion plots three alliances through the promise of marriage.  Catelyn arrives in the Stormlands to forge an alliance of her own.  But King Renly, his new wife Margaery and her brother Loras Tyrell have other plans.  At Winterfell, Luwin tries to decipher Bran’s dreams.
Written by Bryan Cogman; directed by Alik Sakharov.

Episode #14:  “Garden of Bones”
Debut: SUNDAY, APRIL 22 (9:00-10:00 p.m.)
Other HBO playdates: April 22 (11:00 p.m.), 24 (11:00 p.m.), 25 (10:00 p.m.) and 28 (1:30 a.m. ET/12:15 a.m. PT)
HBO2 playdates: April 23 (8:00 p.m.), 26 (8:00 p.m.), 27 (midnight) and 29 (1:10 p.m.)
Joffrey punishes Sansa for Robb’s victories, while Tyrion and Bronn scramble to temper the king’s cruelty.  Catelyn entreats Stannis and Renly to forego their ambitions and unite against the Lannisters.  Dany and her exhausted khalasar arrive at the gates of Qarth, a prosperous city with strong walls and rulers who greet her outside them.  Tyrion coerces a queen’s man into being his eyes and ears.  Arya and Gendry are taken to Harrenhal, where their lives rest in the hands of “The Mountain,” Gregor Clegane.  Davos must revert to his old ways and smuggle Melisandre into a secret cove.
Written by Vanessa Taylor; directed by David Petrarca.

Episode #15:  “The Ghost of Harrenhal”
Debut:  SUNDAY, APRIL 29 (9:00-10:00 p.m.)
Other HBO playdates:  April 29 (11:00 p.m.) and May 1 (11:00 p.m.), 2 (10:00 p.m.) and 5 (11:30 p.m.)
HBO2 playdate:  April 30 (9:00 p.m.)
The end of the Baratheon rivalry drives Catelyn to flee and Littlefinger to act.  At King’s Landing, Tyrion’s source alerts him to Joffrey’s flawed defense plan and a mysterious secret weapon.  Theon sails to the Stony Shore to prove he’s worthy to be called Ironborn.  In Harrenhal, Arya receives a promise from Jaqen H’ghar, one of three prisoners she saved from the Gold Cloaks.  The Night’s Watch arrive at the Fist of the First Men, an ancient fortress where they hope to stem the advance of the wildling army.
Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by David Petrarca.

In Sept. 2011, GAME OF THRONES received two Emmys®, including Outstanding Main Title Design and Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series for Peter Dinklage, who also received a Golden Globe for Best Performance by an Actor in a Supporting Role in a Series, Mini-Series or Motion Picture Made for Television.

The first season of GAME OF THRONES inspired critical raves.  TV Guide called the show “a crowning triumph” and “brilliant,” while the Los Angeles Times termed it “a great and thundering series,” as well as “wild and bewitching.”  The Hollywood Reporter praised the “excellent storytelling, superb acting and stunning visual effects,” and the New York Post observed that the “art directing, acting and incredible sets are as breathtaking as the massive scope of the series.”

The executive producers of GAME OF THRONES are David Benioff, D.B. Weiss, Carolyn Strauss, Frank Doelger; co-executive producers, George R.R. Martin, Vanessa Taylor, Alan Taylor, Guymon Casady, Vince Gerardis; produced by Bernadette Caulfield.


142 Comments

  1. slave2thewage
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Only four episodes of Renly then? BOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

  2. Lady Stoneheart
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Wow, they all sound so amazing! I’m still glad that I read ahead because seeing it come to life is a whole other type of amazing.

  3. Lars
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Well the cliffhanger for episode #4 practically writes itself. Renly’s death.

    It also supports the theory of only one shadow ‘assassin’ being born. (for Renly)

  4. Colin Hicks
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    “Luwin tries to decipher Bran’s dreams”?

    I guess that stitches round the absence of the Reeds, then?

  5. Hi-Fi
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    slave2thewage:
    Only four episodes of Renly then? BOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

    Probably just two episodes, since Catelyn only arrives at his camp in Episode 3.

  6. Michael Harper
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    Seeing as episode 5 is now confirmed to be ‘The Ghost of Harrenhal’ I guess we can assume that episode 6 is most definitely ‘The Old Gods and the New’ then!

  7. Andrew
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    Looks like Dany will be stuck in the Red Waste until Episode 4! I like that choice. Apart from that, things seem to be moving very fast. If Courtnay Penrose is cut, how will they explain the long delay between Renly’s Ep 4 death and Stannis’s Ep 9 invasion of King’s Landing?

  8. Polymeron
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    I found it noteworthy that Tyrion hatches three alliance marriages, as in the book. There has been talk here that maybe the writers should have axed one, but it seems that didn’t happen.

    Good; I really liked that part :D

  9. Nimble Dick
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    SO excited

  10. sunspear
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    Wow, they are changing a lot of stuff from the books.

    Biggest question though, is Jon being cut for three straight episodes?

  11. mwalls
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    Andrew,

    Logistics, maybe? Apparently Davos will be recruiting Salladhor Saan in episode two, so Stannis would need time to organize the attack and ships etc
    Also, I imagine we won’t have Dany and Jon on all four of the first episodes, since Dany is stuck on the Red Waste and not enough happens between Craster and the Fist to last all that time

  12. Valyrian
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    Well, Arya saving Jaqen from the goldcloaks means Amory Lorch must be included in the list of casualties.

  13. Macha
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    I expected Theon’s arrival at Pyke in episode 3, based on the title, now I’m a bit confused.

    “The end of the Baratheon rivalry”. Hah, I actually paused after this thinking “huh wait, do they come to an agreement or something, I can’t remember that being in…ooooooh!” and then laughed myself silly. Yes, nice way to put it, HBO. :)

  14. Jess
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Seems Peter will be getting first billing as we suspected/expected.

    Reading the episode summaries just highlight how fast the season will go. They really had to do some cutting… I think it’ll probably be okay but definitely 2 seasons are needed for ASOS!

  15. Jeff
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Andrew,

    Travel time?

  16. Hi-Fi
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    sunspear,

    Not three straight episodes. Probably two, like last season.

    Craster’s keep will probably be in episodes 1 and 2, and then no Jon in 3 and 4? Though he’ll probably find Benjen’s stuff before episode 5

    Dany also seems to be missing from episode 3.

  17. Ro
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    Just because somebody isn’t mentioned in a summary doesn’t mean there isn’t a scene or two for them in the episode.

  18. Michelle
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Remember, just because someone is not mentioned in the synopsis does not necessarily mean they aren’t in the episode. There are bare bones summaries put together so they they don’t give too much away.

    Personally I hope we get to see Renly’s camp before Cat gets there.

  19. Macha
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Colin Hicks:
    “Luwin tries to decipher Bran’s dreams”?

    I guess that stitches round the absence of the Reeds, then?

    That doesn’t bode well for them being cast in future seasons, either, I think.

  20. Winter Is Coming
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Jess:
    Seems Peter will be getting first billing as we suspected/expected.

    Reading the episode summaries just highlight how fast the season will go.They really had to do some cutting… I think it’ll probably be okay but definitely 2 seasons are needed for ASOS!

    What have they cut? It seems to me they are hitting all the main story beats so far, with the exception of no Reeds.

    Colin Hicks:
    “Luwin tries to decipher Bran’s dreams”?

    I guess that stitches round the absence of the Reeds, then?

    In the book, Luwin and Bran talk dreams as well. It could just be that conversation that the summary is referring to. I still think that Osha will be the one replacing the Reeds in season two.

    EDIT: I should also add that Bryan is the one writing that episode, so I expect it to remain pretty faithful.

  21. Lars
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Macha:
    I expected Theon’s arrival at Pyke in episode 3, based on the title, now I’m a bit confused.

    Based on the episode summaries, Theon arrives at Pyke in episode 2 (‘reunited with his father’), spends more time there in episode 3, there might be no Theon in episode 4, but then he sails to attack the northern shores in episode 5.

  22. Lars
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    sunspear:
    Wow, they are changing a lot of stuff from the books.

    Biggest question though, is Jon being cut for three straight episodes?

    What is the ‘lot of stuff’ they are changing? What did you expect to be different?

    These summaries do not show everything that happens in an episode, Jon might still be in one even if he is not mentioned in the summary.

  23. Michaelmann
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Robb is barely mentioned but I suppose, as the title of the first episode is “The North remembers” that we shall see some Robb action ;)

  24. Linda
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    So I would guess that leaves the last episode of Season 2 to be only one thing……..and that will make for a shocking ending to those who have yet to read the books.

  25. Ro
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    Lars,

    Lars: Based on the episode summaries, Theon arrives at Pyke in episode 2 (‘reunited with his father’), spends more time there in episode 3, there might be no Theon in episode 4, but then he sails to attack the northern shores in episode 5.

    This is a perfect example of how the synopses are clearly not intended to be comprehensive. Clearly, Theon is in Episode 3, based on the title, but he isn’t mentioned in the synopses. So no need to freak out if you don’t see a character named in the synopses.

    A good comparison would be to show the Season 1 synopses and how they captured only some of the major scenes from each episode.

  26. Lars
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    Linda:
    So I would guess that leaves the last episode of Season 2 to be only one thing……..and that will make for a shocking ending to those who have yet to read the books.

    I’m not sure what the “one thing” you could be referring to – and what exactly are you basing it on? This press release only describes the first 5 episodes of the season. Not the last 5.

    Each episode to far in the series has covered multiple character story-lines, so I see no reason to assume the finale is just “one thing” anyway, whatever that might be.

  27. Lars
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Ro,

    How was I freaking out? I was just speculating on the Theon plotline. Or did you quote the wrong person??

  28. Chris Beasley
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    I thought they’d open season 1 with Catelyn already in Renly’s camp, with his death at the end of the episode, it was the only way I could see them fitting all the rest in, to skip forward. Waiting until episode 4… I think the back end of the season is going to feel rushed and or they’ll cut a lot. I hope it doesn’t come at the expense of Arya’s storyline, but I fear it will

  29. Conor
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    Love how fast it’s moving. Descriptions make me so excited.

    I’m guessing the Reeds are going to be cut completely. Osha will take up their part while Luwin will survive and travel with Rickon. Reek will be an extra type role, not really showing his face, Theon will still be ruler in Winterfell at the end of the season, leaving the first few episodes of next season to introduce Ramsay and his evilness.

    Everything sounds amazing though and now I can’t wait for the rest of the episode descriptions:)

  30. Ro
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    Lars:
    Ro,

    How was I freaking out? I was just speculating on the Theon plotline. Or did you quote the wrong person??

    Quoted you because your post illustrated a great point. Wasn’t replying to you, though. Just reinforcing the same point. Poor thread etiquette on my part in not making that clear.

  31. Steven Swanson
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian: Well, Arya saving Jaqen from the goldcloaks means Amory Lorch must be included in the list of casualties.

    I’m pretty sure I heard he was cast. When I read this I actually wondered if the summary made a mistake in calling them goldcloaks, either that or they’re combining the roles of the goldcloaks searching for Gendry and Lorch’s Lannister men.

  32. Maxwell James
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    These episodes sound packed.

    Which may very well be a good thing. No one is going to be complaining about too much exposition this year, sexed up or otherwise.

  33. Macha
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Lars,

    Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that Theon, for example, won’t feature in an episode based solely on the summary, I was just expecting that episode 3 in particular would feature a significant kraken-related moment (described in the summary as well). It may very well do that, in fact, we’ll just have to wait and see. And yes, your timeline makes perfect sense, thanks for that.

  34. Steven Swanson
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Conor: Love how fast it’s moving. Descriptions make me so excited.I’m guessing the Reeds are going to be cut completely. Osha will take up their part while Luwin will survive and travel with Rickon. Reek will be an extra type role, not really showing his face, Theon will still be ruler in Winterfell at the end of the season, leaving the first few episodes of next season to introduce Ramsay and his evilness.Everything sounds amazing though and now I can’t wait for the rest of the episode descriptions:)

    It really wouldn’t be that difficult for them to introduce the Reeds somehow at the start of the 3rd season. Unless they plan to drastically alter Bran & Rickon’s storyline I think they’re pretty much necessary. My guess is they were left out this season largely due to casting logistics.

    Edit: I somehow missed your line regarding Luwin, that might actually work.

  35. Maxwell James
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    Incidentally, Vanessa Taylor is signed up for some big, big scenes.

  36. Hi-Fi
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    Steven Swanson: It really wouldn’t be that difficult for them to introduce the Reeds somehow at the start of the 3rd season. Unless they plan to drastically alter Bran & Rickon’s storyline I think they’re pretty much necessary. My guess is they were left out this season largely due to casting logistics.

    Edit: I somehow missed your line regarding Luwin, that might actually work.

    As much as I like Meera and her interactions with Bran, I don’t get how the Reeds being cut DRASTICALLY change the storyline. Osha can take their place and take the kids up to the wall. There, Bran goes with Hodor and Coldhands beyond the wall and she can take Rickon to another place, just like in the books. Really, they don’t even need Luwin. That said, if they don’t wanna lose Natalia Tena for two seasons, Luwin taking Rickon would be a good call, though it makes no sense for Osha to want to return to the North, since she was running from it.

  37. Andrew
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    “Tyrion plots three alliances through the promise of marriage.” Perhaps they have actually tweaked this from the books. In the book, Tyrion tells Littlefinger that he wants to marry Myrcella to Lysa Arryn’s son. But perhaps here he instead tells LF to go to the Renly/Tyrell camp. It looks like Littlefinger will be with the Tyrells for most of the season. Hopefully we will get one or two good Tyrion/LF scenes in Eps 1-3 before LF leaves the city.

  38. HERP-DERP
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    TOO MANY SPOILERS!

    GUYS DONT LOOK AT THE PLOT OF EACH EPISODE!

    U’LL RUIN ENTIRE EPISODES FOR URSELVES! [E.G. THE SYNOPSIS FOR EP2 LIKELY SPOILS THE ENDING FOR EP1 AND ETC]

    I AM NOW OFFICIALLY JOINING THE BWOP! I SUGGEST YOU DO THE SAME!

  39. Jon Glorioso
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Osha is staying with Rickon. It would be dumb to change it- because she is from Skaggos which is where Rickon is taken.

    I don’t know why people are saying they’re changing a lot or they’re rushing through it- I think the pacing is brilliant and we should all have enough faith from season one that it will be done right.

  40. Prankster
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    Remember, folks, the cast is getting so huge and sprawling that it’s going to be increasingly hard to mention what all of them are doing in episode synopses. I’m going to figure that if they’re not mentioned, it’s because they don’t do anything hugely plot-oriented, but they could still get a fair amount of screentime (like Theon in episode 3–and notice there’s no mention of Asha/Yara at all).

    That said, it’s entirely possible that we’ll get an episode or two without Jon or Dany, like we did last season. I was hoping we could get some interesting “sidequests” with Jon, but if there are they apparently don’t have a huge impact on the plot. On the plus side, it’s looking more and more like we’ll get at least part of the battle on the Fist in the final episode.

  41. The Rabbit
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    So far so good. It seems very faithfull to the storyline from the books.
    I am very relax concerning S2 – and I can not wait!

  42. Andrew
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    Of course the releases don’t list every single character in the episode — for instance, Arya is not mentioned in the premiere and I highly doubt she’ll be missing from it. But they can be used to corroborate some previously reported information. For instance, it was reported that there is no Night’s Watch material in episodes 3, 4, or 9. And Carice van Houten said she is only in episodes 1, 2, 4, and 10. The releases so far don’t contradict any of that.

    One more speculation corroborated by this stuff — It appears they will spend a lot of time on Cersei ordering the murder of Robert’s baby daughter Barra (the baby in the brothel in Season 1) and the baby’s mother Mhaegen. Since this event was offscreen in the books it didn’t really make a huge impression on many readers. So I suspect that even those who have read the books will be a little taken aback to see the baby and her mother murdered onscreen in the premiere. I think that Ros sees the killings and that’s when LF says the line to her about “sometimes those with the most power have the least grace.”

  43. Winter Is Coming
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Andrew:

    One more speculation corroborated by this stuff — It appears they will spend a lot of time on Cersei ordering the murder of Robert’s baby daughter Barra (the baby in the brothel in Season 1) and the baby’s mother Mhaegen. Since this event was offscreen in the books it didn’t really make a huge impression on many readers. So I suspect that even those who have read the books will be a little taken aback to see the baby and her mother murdered onscreen in the premiere. I think that Ros sees the killings and that’s when LF says the line to her about “sometimes those with the most power have the least grace.”

    That was my initial thought as well, but based on the latest trailer, where we see Joffrey beating Ros, I’m guessing that that is what causes Ros to be upset and Littlefinger to utter his line.

  44. Frank
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    HERP-DERP,

    I’ve read the books, so I know 90% of the plot of each episode. Why shouldn’t I read spoiler?

  45. Michael Harper
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    Just in case I missed it, Mance Rayder hasn’t been cast in Season 2 has he? I know he doesn’t appear until the third book, but I was just wondering if he’d been bunked up to Season 2?

  46. Mars5446
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Hi-Fi: …though it makes no sense for Osha to want to return to the North, since she was running from it.

    Good point. Also I think that at this point, it’s hard to say for sure how much sense it makes to replace the Reeds with Osha because we don’t know what GRRM has in mind for Osha/Rickon in the remaining books. How they decide to handle Bran’s trip north in the third season might give us a clue as to how much that story line is going to develop.

    Thanks for adding that spoiler tag, forgot and was just doing it myself and ya beat me to it :)

  47. Andrew
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming, To me it seems that Littlefinger will be gone from the city at the time of Joffrey’s visit to Ros, which I assume will be in ep 4 or 5. (In the book, Tyrion thinks that Joff stripped Sansa because he wanted to see “teats” so he should bring him to a brothel, but he never gets around to it — so in the show maybe this is how “Tyrion and Bronn scramble to temper the king’s cruelty” after the Joff/Sansa scene). Poor Ros! Seems like a rough season for her, especially if she is Alayaya as well.

  48. Josh
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    sunspear:
    Wow, they are changing a lot of stuff from the books.

    Biggest question though, is Jon being cut for three straight episodes?

    Well just because he doesn’t get a mention, doesn’t mean he won’t show up.

    I honestly hope we don’t get too much Ros this season…Look how splintered everything is..the last thing we need is a random original character who brings nothing to the table.

  49. Maxwell James
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Winter: Has there been any confirmation that Owen Teale is returning this season?

  50. Winter Is Coming
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Mars5446: Thanks for adding that spoiler tag, forgot and was just doing it myself and ya beat me to it :)

    No problem! Just trying to stay on top of this thread in case there are some people in here that may have read only up to ACOK. :)

    Andrew, good point. We’ll have to see how the timing of it all works out.

    Maxwell James, no, none. It seems likely he won’t be in this season, probably just mentioned.

  51. Hi-Fi
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Josh,

    Re: Ros. We don’t know yet what she’s bringing to the table this season. So how can you judge?
    I’ve enjoyed her presence in Season 1 and I’m actually eager to see how she’ll pop up in Season 2.

    Maxwell James:
    Winter: Has there been any confirmation that Owen Teale is returning this season?

    Also, I’ve read somewhere that Clive Mantle wasn’t returning. Winter, can you confirm?

  52. Maxwell James
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    Thanks, and too bad. Then I fear we may not get one of my favorite scenes. Though not to worry – there are plenty others…

  53. Obsidian
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Actually , it does make sense for Osha to go North. If she’s at all uncertain of who is a real Stark ally , or if they’re too difficult to reach , at least she can go where there are people she knows she can trust.

  54. Andrew
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Black Lion, In the books, Joff is not involved in Cersei’s abduction of Alayaya. And I would hope that Cersei is not involved in Joff’s visit to the brothel! So Ros could theoretically be filling both roles without a conflict.

  55. A_S00
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Andrew:
    Black Lion, In the books, Joff is not involved in Cersei’s abduction of Alayaya. And I would hope that Cersei is not involved in Joff’s visit to the brothel! So Ros could theoretically be filling both roles without a conflict.

    I do seem to remember something about fucking painted whores…maybe she decided that’s what he needed?

  56. Hollyoak
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    I will not be reading this.

    Knowing the description for each episode is a little too much for me.

    BWP

  57. Steve
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Just because Bryan Cogman is writing Episode 4, it doesn’t mean it will be faithful (not that being faithful matters to me because to me the book is the book). Bryan also wrote the tourny episode in season 1 and it was one of the weakest episodes in season 1, if not the weakest and he completely changed the Hound and Sansa’s interaction.

  58. Stefan Sasse
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    I think one of the most interesting things to take here is that we see Davos recruiting Salladhor Saan. In the books, he had him before, so maybe they’ll give some more gruffy smuggler scenes. And Salladhor in them, too! Makes a fine combination.
    Renly’s death in Episode four seems like a good point. I wonder whether we see Margaery any longer after that. And then, of course, there’s the matter of Littlefinger in Renly’s camp. Clever idea, I think. Brings all factions together, brings up the conflict between the two and sheds a light on Catelyn’s relationship with Littlefinger for people who don’t know the books.
    And sometimes I wonder why we use spoiler tags. Who reads comments in a thread like this and doesn’t want to be spoiled? ^^

  59. Dee
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Hardly any mention of Robb past the first episode. They’re keeping his spoilery plot line strongly under-wraps, which confirms, to me at least, that it’s undergone a major change.

  60. Stefan Sasse
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Oh, and on Ros:
    I honestly don’t understand why so many people dislike her character. I find her invention rather clever, allowing an easy entry into many scenes that otherwise would have been artificial or not possible at all. Just think of Maester Pycelle in episode 10! Great scene, not possible without Ros.

  61. Andrew
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Dee, I think Robb/Jeyne will be backloaded in the second half of the season. In the trailers we keep seeing Catelyn lecture Robb about not following his heart, and Brienne is in the shot. So we know that scene is post-Renly death. I expect Robb might meet Jeyne on the Oxcross battlefield in Ep 4 and the plotline, whatever it is, will proceed from there…

  62. Michaelmann
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    Maybe i missed something, but for me everything that concerned Robb was more supposed to be an addition than a change.

    There WERE events which ACTUALLY HAPPENED in Martins version of the story, we just heard of them afterwards.

    You guys and also the people who are directly involved with the show make me a little nervous right now.

    See, I don’t really care if Jeyne is a “Westerling” or a “Lannister” or from someplace else, I would not even care if she was some completly foreign girl that just happens to be there, those would never be “Major Changes” for me. Pretty much everything important which will hopefully happen onscreen later on will still be working without creating a different story line.

    Seriously, comparisons with The Walking Dead and True Blood really make me feel I’ve got the whole “faithfull adaption” idea wrong which had always been “make necessery changes and add some fitting and awesome new stuff to it but take as much from the books as possible” to me.

    Well we’ll see. Up to this point, I am still looking forward to the show nonetheless.

  63. Dee
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Andrew,

    Good point! I was wondering how/where Robb would meet this new Jeyne, and if she really is going to be a Lannister, then Oxcross would be the most logical place for them to meet.
    Thank you. :)

  64. Ro
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Michaelmann,

    Michael, I agree that the comments about True Blood and Walking Dead would be scary if they were coming from anyone involved with the show. Instead, they’re coming from the people who write the articles and conduct the interviews.

    The sense I get is that certain actors have been told that things have changed from the novels, but they haven’t even necessarily read the novels, so they’re just going by what they heard. They convey it to an interviewer and the interviewer gets the impression that the show is departing from the source significantly starting this season.

    This is kind of like a game of telephone. The producers have mentioned how they have had to move things up and move things back and cut certain characters and emphasize certain POVs (like Robb’s). The actors hear it and convey that hey, there are still surprises, things have changed. The bloggers then write it as if the source isn’t even being followed anymore.

    Main point: not worried at all. Especially after seeing these episode summaries. They follow just about exactly how I would have imaged them to follow.

  65. Chris Kaiser
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Since they’re splitting book three up into two seasons, they have a lot of extra plotting to do in the North, not just for Theon but also for Bran. So my wild theory is:

    In Season 2, Luwin will die, and Bran, Rickon, Hodor & Osha will emerge from the crypts through a secret outside exit, when Rodrik has gotten back and laid siege to Winterfell. (Theon at this time will have had to draw his forces back inside the walls, which is what prevents them from leaving the crypts.) They reunite with Rodrik, but not Summer and Shaggydog.

    In Season 3, Rodrik has to rally more forces to attack Winterfell, and he goes to Wyman Manderly, but Manderly is having trouble with Ramsey’s men harassing him. So they “fix” the Ramsey situation and take in Reek, who they think is a poor tortured servant, and with Ramsey’s and Manderly’s forces combined, attack Winterfell. At the moment you think everything’s gonna be alright, Reek nods to his men, and they kill the Manderly/Stark forces, and Rodrik. Winterfell burns. Meanwhile, everyone still thinks Bran and Rickon are dead, so they stay with Manderly, and develop their long-range link with their wolves.

    In Season 4, Bran, Osha & Hodor head north against Manderly’s better advice, and so they concede to let him send Rickon with trusted men to Skagos. Manderly must now play the part of a leal subject to the Iron Throne, and Davos shows up, etc. Osha completely takes the place of the Reeds in this scenario, and after a few more seasons she will have sensed that Bran’s journey is more important than her own desire to just save her own skin.

    It’s a stretch that D&D would come up with this exact scenario, but I think it shows a plotline that would be pretty cool, and eventually meets up with what happens in the books at a later point.

  66. Dee
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    Michaelmann,

    I wouldn’t worry too much about it, especially not based on analogies made by one journo writing one small snip of an article. We know they changed Jeyene’s character and how and when Robb comes to meet her, but that’s all we know. The most important thing to me concerning Robb’s story line is the motivation behind breaking his pact with the Freys. As long as the show creators stays faithful to that, It’s all good imo. So far, I have no reason to believe they are not.

  67. userj
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    I’m assuming we don’t have t spoiler our replies here since the post specifically said SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS but just in case, BOOK 2 SPOILERS FOLLOW

    Excellent, Catelyn will head back to Robb’s army during episode 5, and at the same time Theon is sailing for winterfell. It should mean that Bran and Rickon’s “deaths” occur in episode 7, and Cateyln recieves word/frees Jaime in episode 8. That leaves plenty of time for Jaime and Brienne awesomeness in episode 9 and 10!

    The Dany plotline is so far similar to the Dany timeline I’ve posed before – First epi, Doreah dies, Jorah stuff – second epi, rider returns w/ friends, then skip episode 3. I suppose that the arrival to Qarth will just be the start of episode 4 and there will also be at least one scene in Qarth itself introducing Xaro et al.

    Speaking of Dany’s arrival in Qarth, I don’t really understand why they have her yelling at everyone at the gates when they get there (as it’s become clear that’s what this scene from the preview is)? She doesn’t act that way at all during the arrival in the book. If anything I could see her yelling when she’s leaving Qarth, but when she first gets there? I don’t understand.

  68. Black Lion
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Chris Kaiser,

    Very cool idea! Except that (ADWD spoiler)I would not let Manderly know that the young Starks are alive. “The North remembers” was such a powerful scene because we didn’t know what Manderly’s plans were.

  69. qwerty
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    userj,

    Why not? It’s not like they know her. Here is this ragtag band who just came out of a desert that few can cross alive. I would be a little cautious about opening my gates too.

  70. Ro
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    userj,

    Perhaps they asked for one of her dragons as a price for allowing her to enter.

  71. Dee
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    Actually, now that I’ve rewatched the trailers, I do have reason to worry about Robb’s motivation for breaking his pact with the Freys and marrying Jeyne. I hope they don’t make it a decision made solely for love of this new Jeyne. I hope they leave room for the honeytrap Jeyne manipulating his weakened emotional state post hearing news of Bran and Rickon’s death. If Theon does take Winterfell in ep 5 or 6, kill the miller boys in ep 7, then I see no reason why that can’t be worked into Robb’s mental state when dealing with Jeyne. My fingers are crossed. :)

  72. Owen Parker
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian:
    Well, Arya saving Jaqen from the goldcloaks means Amory Lorch must be included in the list of casualties.

    Steven Swanson: I’m pretty sure I heard he was cast. When I read this I actually wondered if the summary made a mistake in calling them goldcloaks, either that or they’re combining the roles of the goldcloaks searching for Gendry and Lorch’s Lannister men.

    Amory Lorch has been cast. He is played by Fintan McKeown. I agree that the synopsis might indicate alterations in the composition of his command.

    sunspear: Wow, they are changing a lot of stuff from the books.

    Biggest question though, is Jon being cut for three straight episodes?

    Winter is Coming posted the season 1 synopses for May in this post.

    I thought I’d compare and contrast a summary with what we actually got from the episode to give some perspective on how to take theses new summaries.

    Episode #3: “Lord Snow”
    Arriving at King’s Landing after his long journey, Ned (Sean Bean) is shocked to learn of the Crown’s profligacy from his new advisors. At Castle Black, Jon Snow (Kit Harington) impresses Tyrion (Peter Dinklage) at the expense of greener recruits. Suspicious that the Lannisters had a hand in Bran’s fall, Catelyn (Michelle Fairey) covertly follows her husband to King’s Landing, where she is intercepted by Petyr Baelish (Aidan Gillen), aka “Littlefinger,” a shrewd longtime ally and brothel owner. Cersei (Lena Headey) and Jaime (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) ponder the implications of Bran’s (Isaac Hempstead-Wright) recovery; Arya (Maisie Williams) studies swordsmanship. On the road to Vaes Dothrak, Daenerys (Emilia Clarke) finds herself at odds with Viserys (Harry Lloyd).
    Written by David Benioff & D.B. Weiss; directed by Brian Kirk.

    The A storyline for this one was Ned’s arrival and then Ned and Catelyn investigating the dagger. The synopsis covers this but fails to mention the tourney of the hand or the introductions of Varys and Pycelle. They do not mention his difficulties making up with Sansa but do talk about Arya beginning sword fighting (which spoils the final scene, rare in a synopsis).

    The B storyline is Jon at the wall but the synopsis doesn’t mention Benjen’s departure or the introduction of Ser Alliser Thorne.

    In the C storyline Dany’s clash with Viserys is mentioned but Jorah’s growing respect for her and the introduction of Rakharo are not. Also absent is mention of her pregnancy and Jorah’s mysterious departure to Qohor.

    In the D storyline Bran’s depression post awakening is omitted and his awakening is only mentioned in passing. The scene between Cersei and Jaime gets a mention but her scene with Joffrey dressing his bite wound does not. Joffrey is absent from the synopsis but not the episode.

    Also among the starring cast there is no mention of Robb but he is in the episode with a short scene visiting Bran’s bedside. Robert is in the episode with talk of first kills but isn’t mentioned in the synopsis. Nor is the introduction of Ser Barristan Selmy.

    A synopsis does not include mention of everything we see in an episode and a character being absent from a synopsis does not mean they will not be in it.

  73. Shinyteapot
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    In contrast to many comments above, I hope Luwin’s death plays out as in the books. It’s a powerful moment I don’t want to lose- much as I will hate to see him go, I think it’s worth keeping that.

  74. JamesL
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    Dee,

    But Robb did make that decision because he loves Jeyne. He really did fall in love with her in books so what your issue is with that happening in the show.

  75. Bemma
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    So, what’s going on with the Riverlands? Have they cast any of the Tullys? In season one Jaime was captive in Rob’s camp, rather than Riverrun, it seemed. I hope they don’t cut it entirely… I mean, it’s quite a large part of the season. And the whole revealing Lysa/LF pregnancy thing. Hoster. Edmure. Seems kind of important… just my two cents.

    And is Jaime in chains for the entire season?

  76. Owen Parker
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    Chris Beasley,

    Chris Beasley:
    I thought they’d open season 1 with Catelyn already in Renly’s camp, with his death at the end of the episode, it was the only way I could see them fitting all the rest in, to skip forward. Waiting until episode 4… I think the back end of the season is going to feel rushed and or they’ll cut a lot. I hope it doesn’t come at the expense of Arya’s storyline, but I fear it will

    I’m going to guess you mean open season 2 rather than “open season 1″. Catelyn arrives at Renly’s camp in A Clash of King’s Chapter 23 Catelyn II which is 245 pages into my 741 page British Kindle edition. If you chopped the book into 10 equal bits then it would fall in the fourth episode.

    The synopsis for season 2 episode 3 “What is Dead May Never Die” says :

    Catelyn arrives in the Stormlands to forge an alliance of her own. But King Renly, his new wife Margaery and her brother Loras Tyrell have other plans.

    So I think its clear she will be arriving in the third episode not the fourth.

    The synopsis for season 2 episode 4 “Garden of Bones” says :

    Catelyn entreats Stannis and Renly to forego their ambitions and unite against the Lannisters. Davos must revert to his old ways and smuggle Melisandre into a secret cove.

    The synopsis for season 2 episode 5 “The Ghost of Harrenhal” says:

    The end of the Baratheon rivalry drives Catelyn to flee and Littlefinger to act.

    So it seems Renly’s death might occur in episode 4 but the immediate aftermath will be covered in episode 5. Renly’s death occurs in A Clash Of Kings Chapter 34 Catelyn IV (page 367 in my version).

    Catelyn only has seven chapters so compressing the first four into the first episode of the season would not be smart adaptation to me. Making room for some of her third book material only requires getting 7 chapters worth of material into 9 episodes and may not necessitate cutting anything. Compression only needs to occur for Tyrion’s fifteen chapter arc to fit into ten episodes. Every other POV character has 10 or less chapters in the second book.

  77. sara
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    Dee:
    Actually, now that I’ve rewatched the trailers, I do have reason to worry about Robb’s motivation for breaking his pact with the Freys and marrying Jeyne. I hope they don’t make it a decision made solely for love of this new Jeyne. I hope they leave room for the honeytrapJeyne manipulating his weakened emotional state post hearing news of Bran and Rickon’s death. If Theon does take Winterfell in ep 5 or 6, kill the miller boys in ep 7, then I see no reason why that can’t be worked into Robb’s mental state when dealing with Jeyne. My fingers are crossed. :)

    Honey trap? Really?

    I think we need to sit back and think about who the victim here was. Hint: it wasn’t him.

  78. Owen Parker
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    Bemma:
    So, what’s going on with the Riverlands?Have they cast any of the Tullys? In season one Jaime was captive in Rob’s camp, rather than Riverrun, it seemed.I hope they don’t cut it entirely… I mean, it’s quite a large part of the season.And the whole revealing Lysa/LF pregnancy thing.Hoster.Edmure.Seems kind of important… just my two cents.

    And is Jaime in chains for the entire season?

    They have not announced casting for Hoster, Edmure or Brynden. I think you might be disappointed and that it might be entirely gone. However the revealing Lysa/LF pregnancy thing does not take place in A Clash of Kings. Hoster’s ramblings occur in A Storm of Swords chapter 3 Catelyn I and Littlefinger gives them the required context much later in that book.

  79. Dee
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    I would argue, according to my reading of the book that Robb main reason for marrying Jeyne is honor, because he deflowered her, and that if it weren’t for his overwhelming grief over the death of his brothers and his need of comfort, he would never have forgotten his betrothal and slept with Jeyne. And I would also argue, that Robb, though certainly attracted to the girl, being a teenage boy with very little experience, only fell in love with Jeyne after they were intimate

    This is ofcourse subject to argument, according to how each of us reads those chapters, but I always thought that the death of the boys figuring in the motivation behind Robb forgetting himself with Jeyne is a consensus opinion, at least among fandom, but maybe I’m wrong.

  80. Marnie
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    Dee:
    Actually, now that I’ve rewatched the trailers, I do have reason to worry about Robb’s motivation for breaking his pact with the Freys and marrying Jeyne. I hope they don’t make it a decision made solely for love of this new Jeyne. I hope they leave room for the honeytrapJeyne manipulating his weakened emotional state post hearing news of Bran and Rickon’s death. If Theon does take Winterfell in ep 5 or 6, kill the miller boys in ep 7, then I see no reason why that can’t be worked into Robb’s mental state when dealing with Jeyne. My fingers are crossed. :)

    Except leaving aside anything deeply romantic at the time on either end or his mental state, there’s no evidence that she ever deliberately manipulated him or used him for status in any way. Considering she had no hand in any of her family’s plots and clearly felt deeply for him I think we can squarely say she probably didn’t. *Maybe* she hoped a connection with him would ensure her survival but we really don’t know and even if that were the case, he’s her captor. Would that be so evil?

    You’re projecting.

  81. Owen Parker
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    Michael Harper:
    Just in case I missed it, Mance Rayder hasn’t been cast in Season 2 has he? I know he doesn’t appear until the third book, but I was just wondering if he’d been bunked up to Season 2?

    No casting announcement to date.

  82. Dee
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    Marnie,

    Oh, I think it is implied, even if not stated implicitly, in the text that her family, urged by Tywin, used her to coax/trap/seduce Robb into breaking his pact with the Freys, hence my use of the term honey trap. That ofcourse does not preclude the notion that she later actually fell in love with him, I’m of the opinion that she did truly love him. We do however, I think, have it in the text that her falling in love with him and having his child – it’s possible she is pregnant when we last see her- was not in her family’s plans.

    At any rate, this discussion is premature, let’s wait until we see how the show presents the story, and then we can argue about how we think it may, or may not, have veered from the book.

  83. Bemma
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    Owen Parker,

    Owen Parker: .Hoster’s ramblings occur in A Storm of Swords chapter 3 Catelyn I and Littlefinger gives them the required context much later in that book.

    Thanks for clarifying this. I actually meant cutting Riverrun scenes for the course of the show… will we ever meet Hoster or Edmure at all? (I kind of figured Brynden was cut for good.)

  84. Virtus
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    Hi-Fi: As much as I like Meera and her interactions with Bran, I don’t get how the Reeds being cut DRASTICALLY change the storyline. Osha can take their place and take the kids up to the wall. There, Bran goes with Hodor and Coldhands beyond the wall and she can take Rickon to another place, just like in the books. Really, they don’t even need Luwin. That said, if they don’t wanna lose Natalia Tena for two seasons, Luwin taking Rickon would be a good call, though it makes no sense for Osha to want to return to the North, since she was running from it.

    The thing is, why would Bran come up with the idea of going beyond the wall by himself? In the book it was Jojen who suggested it because of his greendream. Bran himself initially wanted to seek refuge among some of his father’s bannermen.

  85. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    The HBO Viewer’s Guide site is being upgraded for Season 2. The Season 1 stuff is still there but there’s a new information box at the top right. This confirms we are getting new Maps, House Guides and Episode Guides for Season 2 (all listed as ‘coming soon’).

    I’m hoping for the map being extended to show the Red Waste and Qarth. If so, this will be the first canon map extending that far east (assuming GRRM gave them a copy of the new Essos mega-map he created a few months ago for the upcoming map collection and world book), just as the HBO map last year was the first canon map of the Free Cities.

  86. Elizabeth
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    Dee,

    even in your admittedly reasonable argument about Robb’s grief and mental state affecting his decision to marry/have sex with Jeyne there is no evidence of Jeyne herself manipulating him into anything. None of the events leading to Robb’s interactions with Jeyne are her fault or in her control and her not denying Robb’s advances is not manipulation since they’re HIS advances.

    Also, even if Tywin and Sybell are using Jeyne to manipulate Robb Jeyne is merely a tool and not a consenting or even conscious particpant in they’re actions so yes, you can say that Jeyne and Robb’s relationships is part of Tywin’s or Sybell’s manipulation of Robb but saying it’s proof of Jeyne’s manipulation is unfounded and, in my opinion, inaccurate.

  87. Owen Parker
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    Virtus: The thing is, why would Bran come up with the idea of going beyond the wall by himself? In the book it was Jojen who suggested it because of his greendream. Bran himself initially wanted to seek refuge among some of his father’s bannermen.

    Bran could have the dream

  88. Owen Parker
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

    Bemma:
    Owen Parker,

    Thanks for clarifying this.I actually meant cutting Riverrun scenes for the course of the show…will we ever meet Hoster or Edmure at all?(I kind of figured Brynden was cut for good.)

    I suppose cutting them entirely is possible but I think waiting to cast them for the season where they are most prominent makes some sense and hope we are headed that way.

  89. Hollyoak
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    Even if you know the books, which we all do, a huge part of enjoying the show is discovering how David and Dan are translating it to screen. Reading the episode summaries, in my opinion, is a huge detraction from that initial enjoyment.

    Long live the Brotherhood without Previews!

  90. The Kingslayer
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    Aww man I am so pumped now.

  91. Owen Parker
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    Thanks for the update. Glad they are keeping it up to date.

  92. DavosFTW!
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    Needs more Davos.

  93. James
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    Bemma,

    Well, they’ll probably have to include Edmure. They can’t have a wedding without a groom…

  94. Pink Dragon
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    I’m pretty confident in the showrunners, but if anything, these synposi are making it very clear how bad of a time they’re having trying to balance 1000-page books out. Note: they’re doing a good job thus far, but damn, I’d hate to be D&D right now. It must be agonizing.

  95. Bemma
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    James,

    True. The Red Wedding is probably one of the most iconic scenes in the entire series. Up there with Ned getting axed and Jon Snow’s “death.”.

  96. Pink Dragon
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    Re: Red Wedding. I always figured it’d go like this:

    Jeyne dies at the end of the season/in the midst of the next two. Frey invites Robb to come marry his daughter anyway, since Robb’s free now. At the wedding, Frey does his killing.

    Still a wedding, still red, wholly different concept. I don’t expect to ever, at all, even remotely, see the Tullys. As it is, it’s going to get more and more tough for the mainstreamers to distinguish all the houses.

  97. Bathory
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    Well, someone will have to deal with Catelyn as well, after she is found to have released Jaime. Probably a good time as any to introduce Edmure, back from battle, only to have to punish and comfort his sister upon return. And I presume she’ll still be locked in with her father, giving more room for revealing additional back story while she sits there and reflects.

    I wouldn’t count out the Tullys just yet.

    @Pink Dragon:
    I don’t think your version of RW would make much sense, since that would still make Frey’s daughter the Queen in the North, and would likely make him reconsider his treachery for a later time, given Robb actually started losing.

  98. Ro
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    I think we’ll find out pretty quickly this season if the Tullys are going to be entirely dropped out or not. There’s no real way Robb can have 3+ victories without any of those battles actually being in the riverlands, just geographically speaking.

    And if he’s in the riverlands, there’s no real way to avoid mentioning what Edmure or Brynden are doing this whole time. If they are being dropped from the series, then we wont hear anything about them in the first half of the season. If they aren’t, I assume someone will mention what they’re up to at some point just so they don’t appear out of nowhere next season.

  99. darquemode
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 11:28 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    It will be nice to get a canon map for all of Essos!
    I’m looking forward to The Lands OF Ice and Fire I wonder if it will make it out this year…

    There are a lot of nice ASoIaF maps out there that can give a general idea of where things lie even if somewhat inaccurate I guess. I love the Speculative Map by SerMountainGoat! http://www.sermountaingoat.co.uk/map/versions/speculative_map.jpg

    Even if GRRM says there are a few inaccuracies it is stunning and one of, if not the best I’ve seen.
    http://www.sermountaingoat.co.uk/map/index.php

  100. Spryte
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    Owen Parker,

    He could dream the dream, yes, but he’s been having dreams already about the three-eyed crow. He hasn’t been able to decipher them though. The Reeds are essential in helping him understand his path. My theory is, since Jojen predicts Bran’s “death,” the writers obviously didn’t want to tell the audience they’ll die. They might want to stick with the dramatic element and have viewers believe they’re dead for an episode or two… then maybe Bran will cross paths with the Reeds to help him with his journey. They can’t cut the Reeds.

  101. TJ
    Posted March 13, 2012 at 11:58 pm | Permalink

    What do you guys think of the concept map shown in the Blu Ray DVDs?

    Before some of the special features, they show a world map that includes a large land mass to the West of Westeros and another above Essos.

  102. darquemode
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 12:07 am | Permalink

    TJ,

    I found it intriguing too.
    However, I read earlier that while there are other continents out there, they will remain a mystery….

    “Yes, I’m afraid so. I’ve been working on maps for the Bantam map book for most of the last week. Including lots of maps of places we have never seen before, and a “known world” map that goes as far east as Asshai. (Not a true world map, of course. If my world contains analogues of the Americas, Australia, Antarctica, and the like, the people of the Seven Kingdoms are unaware of them, so it did not seem right for the readers to know more than the characters.” – GRRM

  103. Andrew
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 12:26 am | Permalink

    Spryte, I think he means that they could tweak the dream to make the path clear. Like, have him dream of the crow flying to the Wall, then beyond it. But I think whether they eventually add the Reeds depends on how many episodes end up being allotted to ASOS.

  104. The Greatjon
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    Exactly. I highly doubt we will see a 3 or 4 episode gap with a main character like Jon Snow or Dany. It will most likely be like last year where they make room for a scene or two even in the episodes there not featured. As mentioned earlier, just because its not mentioned in the summary, don’t mean it wont be in the episode.

    One thing that bothers me a little is that it looks like we won’t see Storms End, and we’ll just see Stannis meet Renly at his camp at some random place on the coast, which is where I guess all the subsequent events will take place. Has anyone heard anything about this? and if Storms End will be cut out entirely?

    Michelle:
    Remember, just because someone is not mentioned in the synopsis does not necessarily mean they aren’t in the episode. There are bare bones summaries put together so they they don’t give too much away.
    .

  105. Spryte
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    Andrew,

    You have to remember Bran’s a child who misses his family. Still don’t think it’ll be very believable for him, as a noble Stark loyal to his family, to chase after dreams unless someone connects with his dreams and convinces him into his path.

  106. Jackol
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 1:07 am | Permalink

    Also, even if Tywin and Sybell are using Jeyne to manipulate Robb Jeyne is merely a tool and not a consenting or even conscious particpant in they’re actions so yes, you can say that Jeyne and Robb’s relationships is part of Tywin’s or Sybell’s manipulation of Robb but saying it’s proof of Jeyne’s manipulation is unfounded and, in my opinion, inaccurate.

    It is clear that Tywin and Jeyne’s mother conspired to trap Robb. It stretches credulity to think that Jeyne wasn’t at least a little aware that she is being thrown at Robb deliberately and with some motive – she may not be aware of the true motive, but she would be aware that something was up and she wasn’t just “in the right place at the right time”.

    Robb makes clear that the initial “deflowering” was in a moment of weakness, and that he felt honour bound then to marry Jeyne – love came later, and the initial incident was a trap, pure and simple, and Jeyne must have been aware that something was up, even if it was only that her mother insisted she do certain things.

    It’s no Romeo and Juliet scenario in the books, and any attempt to make it so in the TV version will be … highly disappointing.

    I’d also say removing the conspiracy weakens the impact of the entire story IMO, but let’s wait and see what they actually do.

  107. Java Beans
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 1:56 am | Permalink

    sara: Honey trap? Really?

    I think we need to sit back and think about who the victim here was. Hint: it wasn’t him.

    Well, if the theory that the whole Jeyne/Robb situation is planned from the start (by Tywin/Sybil/Rolph/etc) to severe his Frey alliance and kill him along with his family and bannermen is true, then honey trap is accurate.

    The biggest victim, of course, is always commoners suffering from the kings’ war.

  108. Damián Erro
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 2:15 am | Permalink

    must… no t… read… aaaaagh!

  109. Steelyuhas
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 2:24 am | Permalink

    Hi-Fi,

    I really hope Clive not being in season 2 isn’t true, he is my favorite of Robb’s bannermen, and it would be odd for him to just not be there in season 2, as he was featured more than any other of his bannermen in season 1.

  110. sara
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 2:27 am | Permalink

    Java Beans:

    I think we need to sit back and think about who the victim here was. Hint: it wasn’t him.

    Well, if the theory that the whole Jeyne/Robb situation is planned from the start (by Tywin/Sybil/Rolph/etc) to severe his Frey alliance and kill him along with his family and bannermen is true, then honey trap is accurate.

    Tywin’s not omniscient and I think people put entirely too much faith in him planning Robb’s downfall via Jeyne. Tywin doesn’t actually know Robb and seeing as how Robb kicked his ass throughout the end of GOT/ACOK, he’s clearly bad at predicting his next move. I think it was more Robb/Jeyne happened and Sybell had to clean up the mess and that’s when she conspired with him. Jeyne is completely innocent.

  111. sara
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 2:29 am | Permalink

    Steelyuhas:
    Hi-Fi,

    I really hope Clive not being in season 2 isn’t true, he is my favorite of Robb’s bannermen, and it would be odd for him to just not be there in season 2, as he was featured more than any other of his bannermen in season 1.

    I think they’ll bring him back in s3. Karstark and Roose Bolton are going to probably be given a lot of the focus, better just to have the Great Jon off raiding gold mines for awhile.

  112. Jackol
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 2:44 am | Permalink

    I think it was more Robb/Jeyne happened and Sybell had to clean up the mess and that’s when she conspired with him. Jeyne is completely innocent.

    This simply doesn’t make sense.

    Tywin had no need to conspire with Jeyne’s mother after the Robb/Jeyne marriage occurred – he could conspire with Walder Frey and Roose Bolton, but wtf did Jeyne’s mother have to do for the RW to take place? Nothing – her work was complete by that time.

    And yet, Tywin had promised her family a very large set of rewards – a couple of prime Lannister marriages plus land and title – that’s a lot of reward. The only thing that makes sense is that it was payment for something BIG – setting up the Robb/Jeyne marriage in the first place.

    It was a Tywin plot from the beginning – no question. How much Jeyne knew is unknown, but she could not have been completely naive.

    As for Robb having the better of Tywin – it was made very very very clear in the books that this was a military matter – Robb was clearly very gifted as a military strategist and commander, and yet he suffered progressive political losses as time went on. This was clearly meant to reflect that winning the battles was not the same as winning the war, and for Tywin to be militarily bested, but to still have the last laugh due to his rat cunning in playing the game is pure ASoIaF.

  113. Lars
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 2:57 am | Permalink

    Jackol:
    This simply doesn’t make sense.

    Tywin had no need to conspire with Jeyne’s mother after the Robb/Jeyne marriage occurred – he could conspire with Walder Frey and Roose Bolton, but wtf did Jeyne’s mother have to do for the RW to take place? Nothing – her work was complete by that time.
      

    So you think this was all pre-planned by Tywin, before Robb even met Jeyne? Of course not – that is ridiculous.

    No, the most likely scenario is that Robb/Jeyne just happened – her mother communicated with Tywin and they ran with it. This may have occured just before Robb wed Jeyne (so her mother was encouraged by Tywin to go ahead with it), but I find it hard to believe that it would have happened before Robb even met Jeyne. And that’s what would have to occur to make this a “honeytrap”.

  114. Owen Parker
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 3:33 am | Permalink

    Spryte:
    Andrew,

    You have to remember Bran’s a child who misses his family. Still don’t think it’ll be very believable for him, as a noble Stark loyal to his family, to chase after dreams unless someone connects with his dreams and convinces him into his path.

    Andrew was right that I mean he can have the dream and another wise mystic character can interpret it for him. I do remember who Bran is and what his motivations are. I think the circumstances at the time are that he is without a plan and has no clear route to the little family he has left. I don’t think they will change those circumstances so the motivation to “chase after dreams” remains the same. I can see the adaptation changing who has the dream and who interprets the dream and still working so I do not consider the Reeds essential. I don’t think cutting them is desirable but I do think it is workable.

  115. Jackol
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 3:34 am | Permalink

    So you think this was all pre-planned by Tywin, before Robb even met Jeyne? Of course not – that is ridiculous.

    I think Tywin, being aware that the Westerlings were likely to cross paths with Robb, and knowing of the promise of Robb to wed a Frey daughter, put a proposal to the Westerlings to attempt to get Robb to break his betrothal.

    Nothing else, to my mind, explains the size of the promised reward – a big payoff for a big play. Simply coaxing the Westerlings to agree to the marriage once offered spontaneously by Robb is of no consequence – Tywin, if he felt any pressure needed to be applied, could have simply relied on threats and bluster to get the Westerlings over the line if that was all that was on offer, and the Westerlings weren’t involved, and their cooperation was unnecessary, in the rest of the events leading up to the RW.

    I don’t think that Tywin planned for the RW or anything like it to be the outcome from the outset – that was “happy coincidence”. I’m sure he was merely hoping to drive a wedge between Robb and the Freys – whatever else happened after that was gravy as far as Tywin was concerned.

    ie it’s not “ridiculous” at all.

  116. The Greatjon
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 3:56 am | Permalink

    Yeah sorry but I think your wrong about this. It is made very clear in the books, by Tywin himself, that the Freys were the ones who approached him about the idea for the Red Wedding.

    And it is never said or implied at all that Jeyne knew anything about her mothers plot, on the contrary, she loved him and was very earnest in trying to be Robb’s queen. You see how upset she was over the death of Robb, in AFFC, she tore her clothes as a sign of mourning, and got into a physical fight with her mom over the crown Robb gave her, because her mother wanted to trash it, and Jeyne fought with her because it was one of the last things Robb gave to her. She’s clearly in mourning and obviously not acting when she says that she loved him.

    Again, its pretty obvious in the books. And all the signs point too Jeyne genuinely loving Robb, while we can’t be 100 % sure because we don’t get a ton of insight into her character, there is no evidence that points to her knowing, it doesn’t hint towards that at all in the books, thats just a conclusion you drew for yourself. It’s just not feasible. Robb Stark was King in the North, how would Lady Sybell know Robb would fall for Jeyne? tell Jeyne to seduce him? its made pretty clear that while Jeyne was somewhat attractive, she was not some great beauty, so what would make them think the King in the North would fall for a plain enough girl from a lesser house that had just been defeated by his forces? thats really far fetched. Sybell had to have put her plan in motion once Robb and Jeyne got together, thinking she had a golden opportunity, but theres no way she could have planned that, again Jeyne, while pretty, wasn’t beautiful or seductive enough for her mother to bank on her seducing a king.

    Plus we see how Jeyne is not very happy with her mother in the aftermath of all that has happened, and had a scare on her head from fighting with her mother over the crown Robb gave her (as I mentioned earlier) So no disrespect, I just think you read into it wrong, its an interesting theory, and if thats your theory of what went on than thats fine, but its definitely not something to be talked about as a fact of the story, cause its definitely not.

    Jackol:   

    I think Tywin, being aware that the Westerlings were likely to cross paths with Robb, and knowing of the promise of Robb to wed a Frey daughter, put a proposal to the Westerlings to attempt to get Robb to break his betrothal. 

  117. The Greatjon
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 4:08 am | Permalink

    The Greatjon,

    And you ask why the Westerlings got such a great reward, if not to try and help break Robbs marriage contract?

    Well for one, Jeynes mother was making sure she didn’t get pregnant, making sure Robb doesn’t have an heir, which is a pretty big deal. Its not feasible to think they could have planned for Robb to break his betrothal, it was too unexpected, you really think they could have planned all that? there were too many variables, like Robbs grief and his actions in response to that grief could not be predicted/planned for. So for me, the fact that they would plan for Robb to fall for plain Jeyne from the crag is ridiculous, when considering the looks and nature of Jeyne, who is suppose to be a nice enough girl, and pretty, but again, not some seductive beauty that could be planned to seduce a king to break his betrothal.

  118. Jackol
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 4:08 am | Permalink

    And all the signs point too Jeyne genuinely loving Robb, while we can’t be 100 % sure because we don’t get a ton of insight into her character, there is no evidence that points to her knowing, it doesn’t hint towards that at all in the books, thats just a conclusion you drew for yourself. It’s just not feasible.

    I’ve said before that it is clear that Jeyne/Robb did end up in love.

    That doesn’t alter the argument.

    I think it is clear from what Robb says that he marries Jeyne out of honour for sleeping with her, not because he was in love with her at the time. That he subsequently fell in love with her (and her for him) is neither here nor there.

    I think it’s pretty clear that Jeyne’s mother was actively involved in getting Jeyne to seduce Robb – nothing else explains the payoff from Tywin.

    And, if that is true (and yes, it’s just a guess, but I think it’s the only guess that actually fits all of the facts we know), then Jeyne was acting on her mother’s instructions to seduce Robb, ultimately at the behest of Tywin. I’m sure that Jeyne wasn’t aware of the motivation of her mother, and obviously had no idea (as probably no one involved at the time had any idea) of the possibility of it ending up with the RW. That doesn’t absolve her of the fact that the initial seduction was not done innocently.

    It is entirely feasible.

  119. Jackol
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 4:17 am | Permalink

    Its not feasible to think they could have planned for Robb to break his betrothal, it was too unexpected, you really think they could have planned all that? there were too many variables

    Tywin (and Jeyne’s mother) couldn’t have been sure of any particular outcome. You’re missing the point. Tywin saw an opportunity to possibly screw up Robb’s relationship with the Freys. He didn’t know that it would work, but it was worth a try – put the offer to the Westerlings that they would get a big reward if they could trap Robb into a marriage. If it didn’t come off – oh well, no big deal, and Tywin wouldn’t have had to pay up.

    It was a percentage play – maybe a low chance of being pulled off, but if it came off the benefit for Tywin in his play against Robb was immense.

    You only see it from the perspective that this is what is written down as happening – it wasn’t a certainty that it turn out the way it did for the players involved.

    As for the payment being for preventing Jeyne from bearing a child – that was, as I read it, after the RW, and wasn’t of any great significance – if Tywin had any doubt he would simply have had Jeyne killed. That was certainly not worth several Lannister marriages, lands and title for the Westerlings.

  120. Macha
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 5:23 am | Permalink

    Throwing my two cents on the subject of Jeyne and Robb.
    This is a topic that comes out periodically, and I’ve always found it interesting, precisely because I was a little surprised seeing how some readers perceived it as being a carefully planned act, with Jeyne being at least partially aware of it.
    Granted, I’ve only read the books once and it was quite some time ago, but that wasn’t my impression at all. On the contrary, what made me appreciate the Red Wedding (from a narrative point of view, of course I was otherwise devastated) was that it was a horrible – and brilliant at the same time – scheme that was built on such a natural and simple reaction: two very young and inexperienced people that fall in love. Just like that. And of course they act on it, and of course that brings their worlds down on them. The way I see it, what makes Robb’s story unique is precisely the fact that he’s a brilliant strategist, and GRRM builds up on that so that the reader tends to forget he’s still a boy when it comes to life in its other aspects. I don’t think Jeyne had anything to do with anything, nor that there was any ‘seduction’ involved, the way I see it things just happened precisely because it was a shared feeling from the start, and they simply acted on it, like normal teenagers do. I don’t think it was a case of love-comes-later at all, on the contrary, this is what distinguishes his marriage from the one of his parents. The way I read it, Robb’s undoing was that he was trying so hard to follow in the footsteps of his father, but ultimately couldn’t, because his sense of honor would always be overruled by his heart. Or hormones. At that age it’s hard to separate or distinguish the two. :)
    I don’t know, maybe it’s because I’m a woman and I do love a good love story with a bad ending. :) Or maybe I just needed a breath of fresh air from the usual plotting & scheming-in-advance from other storylines in the series. So, in conclusion, I too was under the impression that Tywin’s reward was a response to how the situation was handled after Robb and Jeyne’s marriage. This being a carefully planned scheme beforehand just weakens the story, in my view, but hey, I could be wrong.

  121. Stannis4life
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    Yes, I hope they don’t cut Arya’s storyline. Early in the books, her chapters were alot of fun to read. I want the deadly trio of Arya, Gendry and HOT PIE!

  122. Langkard
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Ah, the synopses were well-written! They should peak the interest of those not familiar with the books. Those of us who have read the books are probably even more excited by them. So much happens in just those first five episodes.

    Stannis4life:
    Yes, I hope they don’t cut Arya’s storyline. Early in the books, her chapters were alot of fun to read. I want the deadly trio of Arya, Gendry and HOT PIE!

    Agreed. Arya’s story is tied for my favorite in the books along with Tyrion’s. This season promises to be a smorgasbord for the Arya and Tyrion fans.

  123. Bathory
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    The way I read the whole Robb-Jeyne affair is as a game of opportunity.

    Here are Westerlings, an ancient noble house that has lost most of its power and is somewhat impoverished. And here’s Robb, strolling into their castle after having taken it. Now, how long would it take for her mother, wanting their old power, lands and influence back to figure out this could be their golden opportunity. This is when I believe the scheming began.

    Ravens fly to Tywin, and a promise returns of great rewards, if they manage to pull a marriage off. I think it’s fairly easy to manipulate Jeyne, who is really innocent and somewhat simple, to take advantage of Robb in his moment of greatest weakness (having just found out that his brothers are dead). And of course she would have been a pawn in all this, perhaps believing her mother just wants a really good marriage for her, or perhaps that she was sent to give the king some comfort, to prove they are leal subjects. It doesn’t really matter what they told her, she was never meant to know about the plot.

    Even if Robb didn’t have a strong sense of honor, it probably wouldn’t have been that hard to influence him into a marriage at that point. Or at least try their best. Luckily Robb plays that part willingly, just like a perfect fool.

    They both act incredibly guilty afterwards, even though they actually do fall in love. Robb feels guilty he’s dishonoured himself, the girl and broke a promise, endangering the Frey alliance. He’s avoiding his mother and acts incredibly defensive whenever topic of Jeyne emerges.

    Jeyne herself has guilt all over her face, once she starts figuring out what had really happened. She can barely look any of the northerners in the face, especially Catelyn. I can’t be the only one picking up on that. Ultimately she starts rebelling and defying her mother, which would only make sense if she felt manipulated and blamed her for everything that’s happened. It wouldn’t make sense to have such a strong reaction, if her mother only wants to find her a good marriage, after her husband has been killed.

    Lannisters would not pay up so handsomely, unless this was a plot from the start. A game of chance, perhaps, but that doesn’t make it entirely random. I don’t think Tywin counted on it actually coming true, but he does like to keep more than one iron in the fire, and he had nothing to lose for trying. Neither did the Westerlings, for that matter. What is one deflowered daughter in the greater scheme of things?

    The fact that they are later in love, doesn’t mean they weren’t pushed into it.

  124. OhDanyBoy
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Based on Winter is Coming’s breakdown, here are the chapters I figure are directly referenced in the summaries, with their order in the books in brackets.

    Ep 1: Prologue (1), Sansa 1 (3), Part of Dany 1 (13), Bran 1 (5), Jon 2 (14), Jon 3 (24)

    Ep 2: Tyrion 2 (9), Arya 2 (6), Another part of Dany 1 (13), Theon 1 (12), Davos 1 (11)

    Ep 3: Tyrion 4 (18), Catelyn 2 (23)

    Ep 4: Sansa 3 (33), Catelyn 3 (32), Tyrion 6/7* (26/30), Arya 5 and 6 (20 and 27), Davos 2 (43)

    Ep 5: End of Catelyn 4 (34), Tyrion 5 (21), Theon 3 (38), Arya 7 (31), Jon 4 (35)

    There are 70 chapters, so the rate of progress seems about right. Obviously other chapters will be covered in these episodes, but the summaries alone give us an idea of the pacing.

    * I assume Tyrion’s coerced “Queen’s man” is either Pycelle or Lancel.

  125. Skipjack
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    People have gotten terribly lazy about spoiler bars. Please put speculation about things that haven’t happened yet on the show in spoilers. Describing events and only spoilering the words Red Wedding really misses the point. It’s not fair to people who haven’t read the books, but more it’s not fair to the site when they have explicitly made clear that this is a website for discussion of the TV show. You’ll chase any and all newcomers away.

  126. Owen Parker
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Skipjack,

    Please be specific if I post (or have posted) anything out of line and I will try to learn from my mistakes. I am trying to use the spoiler markup where appropriate.

  127. OhDanyBoy
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Skipjack,

    To be fair, this is a “spoiler” thread. The article itself contains massive spoilers for those who haven’t read the books. So I think people need to be cut a little slack in this thread in particular.

  128. Owen Parker
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    OhDanyBoy,

    Good work! I was thinking about doing the same but haven’t had a chance yet – the cascade of new things is wonderful but I am struggling to keep pace.

  129. Josh
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Hi-Fi,

    In the season 1 DVD commentary they mention that Ros will have a major role in season 2

  130. The Greatjon
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    again, I think you are missing the point. It came from the mouth of Tywin himself that he did NOT plan it, and it was only presented to him by the Freys, and he gave the green light, read the chapter at the end of ASOS (or the begining of AFFC im not sure) where Tyrion has a conversation with his father about the RW, and Tywin clearly stats he had no hand in it except that he gave it his blessing (Walder Frey offered to betray Robb Stark for a pardon and certain lands and titles for his family members). But he makes it clear that the plan was concocted by the Freys and Boltons.

    Your reaching, this isn’t a guess, these are the facts, I’ve read the books numerous times. And its made very clear that Jeyne did not seduce Robb, no one could have predicted what would happen at Winterfell or Robb’s emotional reaction to it. No its not feasible at all, Tywin didn’t know Robbs battleplan, how would he know Robb would be at the Crag? it clearly presented in the books that Robb acted out of grief for his presumed dead brothers and sought comfort from Jeyne. Read it again, there is no proof or any hint that Jeyne was told by her mother to seduce Robb, it was complete chance that Robb got wounded taken the castle, and subsequently got the news from Winterfell of his brothers theres no way Tywin could have predicted that. Again, it is even mentioned that her mother was paid off for making sure Jeyne did not get pregnant.

    Your the first person I ever heard make this assumption, I thought it was pretty widely accepted that Jeyne had no knowledge of her moms plot until after the fact, and you clearly see how upset she is over it. Again Tywin himself said it was after Robb married Jeyne that he made an offer to Jeynes mother to make sure Jeyne didn’t get pregnant, and any other way she could manipulate her for the benefit of the Lannisters.

    All the evidence points too Jeyne not knowing, its just too random. Why would Tywin go to the Westerlings in the first place? he didn’t know Robbs battleplan, so he had no way of knowing he would attack the Crag, so in the end you have a plain looking girl from a random minor house in the Westerlands, and you suggest that Tywin would make this offer before hand, its just too much of a reach, theres dozens of houses with plenty of attractive enough women, if he wanted to have someone seduce Robb, why not get a seductive/beautiful woman and send her to Robbs camp incognito to seduce him? instead he picks some random average looking girl from a random house just on the off chance Robb Stark would take the castle, get wounded and be in grief over his supposed death brothers its just way to flimsy, I can only go by what I read in the books, and what hints and evidence that is presented in the story, and it is made clear by Twin Lannister himself, that he had no part in planning the RW, and made contact with Jeynes mother after Robb married her, cause theres no way he could predict he would even meet Jeyne Westerling, its like picking a random girl out of a thousand and hoping somehow Robb will come into contact with her, again its not feasible, he would have had to place women all over the westerlands and riverlands to seduce Robb, otherwise what would make him pick Jeyne? yeah I understand you think it was a low percentage plan, but its just too random. Nowhere in the book is is it even hinted that Jeyne purposely seduced Robb, your the first person I have ever heard say that, the evidence actually supports the contrary… that Jeyne had no instructions to seduce Robb, it just happened, again because Robb was in grief and wounded.
    Jackol,

  131. sara
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Jackol:

    This simply doesn’t make sense.

    So you’re saying that the second Robb arrived at the Crag, Sybell/Tywin conspired to bring him down? C’mon, that’s pretty unlikely. Especially since they had no clue Robb would take the bait. Nor do I think that Tywin would rely on the possible manipulations of a 16 year old girl to take down his foe.

    Um, I don’t know, what could Sybell’s part be? Um, maybe…um…making sure Jeyne didn’t get pregnant? Which is exactly what she did according to AFFC. I think that alone would merit a lordship, as evidenced by Jaime’s fear in AFFC, Robb having a child would fuck them over big time.

  132. Stannis4life
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    I hope they don’t cut any of Tyrion’s chapters where he runs circles around Lancel and ‘convinces’ him to be an informant. Those were really entertaining to read. And with Peter’s acting, I think it’d be even more fun to watch!

  133. Yoosteen Bose
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    I think it’s funny when people complain that there are only “so many” episodes of this or that feature of the show. Most movies are two hours, and a lot of information can get across in two hours. This book gets ten! That’s a ton of time. The show does great, and if anything it trims the fat.

    I bet this season will look even more polished, and they will have learned tricks to utilize the budget more. I’m hoping for more ideas to make this show work not only better in serving the story itself, but also become even more watchable as an adaptation. Not that season one wasn’t- it was awesome. But here and there I did see evidence of a small budget or “translation” to TV. Anyhoo…..April 1st!

  134. Arrogant Bastard
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Stannis4life,

    Pretty sure that’s included. Look at the summary of episode 14, Tyrion coerces a queen’s man to being his eyes and ears. Unless I’m forgetting something, I’m pretty sure that’s Lancel. Love that scene in the book and should be great on the show.

  135. The Greatjon
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    sara,

    exactly, it just doesn’t seem feasible to me. Tywin would have no way of knowing Robb would even be at the crag or would meet Jeyne, I mean, if he wanted to have some girl seduce Robb, why not find someone actually seductive, and send her to Robbs camp, it makes no sense he would pick one random girl from a lesser house, and what, just expect him to show up at the Crag ? And even if he could get someone to seduce Robb, how could he have predicted he would marry her? I mean Robb was in a position of power, he could have had any women he wanted, and no one would have questioned him, I don’t think anyone would ever expect him to actually marry though, no way anyone could predict that.

    Off topic, does anyone have any information on if Storms End will be cut from the season? I’m under the suspicion that it will be taken out, and all the events regarding Renly, Cat and Stannis will simply take place at Renly’s camp in the Stormlands. I really hope we get to see Storms end, but its looking more and more like we won’t, does anyone have any info on this?

  136. Michael
    Posted March 14, 2012 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    At first I was disappointed by how Dany’s storyline appears to be handled in these episodes, but after a little thought, it seems to work out.

    So we have them wandering through the Red Wastes in Ep. 1, likely finding the ghost city at the end of the episode, Ep. 2, appears to be being in the ghost city, the riders going out, and returning at the end, Ep. 4 sees them on the way to Qarth, that leaves Ep. 5-10.

    I could see Ep. 6 & 7 as being about Dany’s attempts to raise an army, Ep. 8 with House of Undying, Hopefully in Ep. 9 we get to see Belwas and Arstan and Dany getting on the boat, still holding out hope that in Ep. 10 Dany will free the Unsullied. That moment is a proper season ending kind of moment, I’m still hoping it will be in Season 2.

    No matter what I’m looking forward to the new season, I wonder if there’s any chance they’ll broadcast the 1st 10 minutes of EP. 1, sometime in the next two weeks!

  137. DavidMG
    Posted March 15, 2012 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    slave2thewage,

    What did you expect? Book spoilers: It’s only ten episodes and he doesn’t even make it through half of the book

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