HBO addresses early episode release rumors
By Winter Is Coming on in News.

The second episode of season two was briefly available today on HBO GO in the Netherlands and Poland, but has since been removed. I reached out to HBO about the reports we had heard of these territories claiming they will be airing every episode of season two a week early and they confirmed that that will not happen. The episodes will continue to air in the US first and then on the foreign subsidiaries sometime thereafter.

Winter Is Coming: Crisis averted! I’m going to go ahead and close down the previous early reaction thread, since it was obviously not HBO’s intention to have this episode out there at this time. Please wait until Sunday before engaging in any further discussion about episode 12. Thanks!


221 Comments

  1. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Thank GOD!

  2. Lord AJ
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Excelent news!

  3. fiende
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Decision made due to fan outrage maybe? Who’s your daddy, HBO? lol

  4. Johan Sporre
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Good news!

  5. seras
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    oh good. a friend put up a torrent link on fb, but i didn’t want to watch it early. i’m glad i don’t have to fight the temptation every week.

  6. fuelpagan
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Superdeluxe,

    Ditto that!

  7. Arthur
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Yeah thank god for sure… We need every rating (voice) to be heard and counted so D&D gets our (fans) best representation…

    That early release stuff would have affected the numbers…

  8. Alwyn Joseph
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Good news. :D

  9. Knurk
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Quickly handled, well done HBO!

  10. Ramah
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Someone needs firing.

  11. Lyonel the Red
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Well. Whatever. Those who were lucky enough to see it were happy, the others were jelaous. I completely understand. On a more serious note, they might have realised that it boosts piracy even more.

    I do admit I was too weak resisting to watch it. I’ll just have to wait more.

    But really, I don’t care. The season 2 is here and the show is amazing.

  12. sjwenings
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Good stuff. Weird then, that this was allowed to happen (if not by HBO HQ) to begin with.

  13. gotgotgot
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Bad news.

    HBO wants people to sign up for HBO and use the GO service.
    This worked well last season for the US.

    I am not sure why everyone seems to think this is good news.

  14. Eleanor
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    That’s really strange, given that an earlier Polish commenter said HBOGO in Poland had confirmed it. Do we think it is a matter of HBO changing their minds rather than there being a so-called error?

  15. Mirri Maz
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    I’m glad they removed it, unfortunately the episode is everywhere online now.

  16. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, someone might be losing their job over this one.

    Ramah:
    Someone needs firing.

  17. Larsa
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    I can’t believe I am glad that i now have to wait 2 weeks for the next episode, but I am.

  18. Rero
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    So, this means I have to wait 12 days to see a new episode, maybe it’s time for a new count-down timer!
    So first HBO poland and HBO Netherlands tell subscribers that they can watch it one week earlier, then HBO USA barks and they forget their promisses.

  19. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    Hallelujah. I can deal with the early release of one episode, but if they did it every week this season, that was going to be a nightmare on tumblr and twitter. Phew!

  20. Hilda
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    Awesome!!! Thanks heads up!

  21. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    What about the renewal ? When are they going to announce it ?

  22. Liesie
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    whoops and I’ve seen it *blush* AWESOME ep though :D

  23. Steelyuhas
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Great news!

  24. OhDanyBoy
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Rero:
    So, this means I have to wait 12 days to see a new episode, maybeit’s time for a new count-down timer!
    So first HBO poland and HBO Netherlands tell subscribers that they can watch it one week earlier, then HBO USA barks and they forget their promisses.

    More likely the international HBO’s made a call on their own that they weren’t allowed to make – and got called on it. Like someone said above in the thread – someone’s getting canned for this.

  25. Jeff O'Connor
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    Terrific news.

  26. gotgotgot
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    This was a great way to promote the show and the HBO go service in Poland and the Netherlands.
    Maybe a few people might remember a very similar campaign during season 1 of GoT last year in the states?

  27. Steven Scott
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    Well that sucks. I’d love to have every episode a week earlier.

  28. Lars
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    OhDanyBoy: More likely the international HBO’s made a call on their own that they weren’t allowed to make – and got called on it.Like someone said above in the thread – someone’s getting canned for this.

    Indeed. If I ran HBO I would *not be happy* that foreign subsidiary decided to allow access to episodes early.

  29. Skywarpgold
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    Phew! I am uninstalling bit torrent as we speak!

  30. Arthur
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    HBO should just release the first scene of the next episodes (5 minutes or so) right after the newest episode airs in the US.

    They can have a little “HBO Go” members go online right now for a sneak peek… Blah blah”

    Having only the first scene (5 mins or so) possibly pirated won’t hurt the ratings and in fact might provide some free advertisement.

    It would also give good motivation to log on the HBO Go…

    I don’t know why they haven’t thought of that angle or promotion for both the series and their HBO Go website. I think it would work well with that approach.

  31. userj
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Lyonel the Red: Those who were lucky enough to see it were happy, the others were jelaous.

    No, I really, really was not “jealous”. I was just pissed that I couldn’t avoid being spoiled by a lot of people posting their reactions on social network sites.

  32. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Yes, I think it’s probably the case. Airing *one* episode early on HBOGo is a good way to grab viewers, like HBO did last year, but every week would be madness and pirating. It’s just a bad business decision for everyone.

  33. biliki
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Thank God!
    I did break down and watch it, but I don’t want it to come out early again!

  34. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    gotgotgot: This was a great way to promote the show and the HBO go service in Poland and the Netherlands.Maybe a few people might remember a very similar campaign during season 1 of GoT last year in the states?

    Of course, but going behind the backs of the parent company and making an announcement that this would happen every week is something else altogether.

  35. LordEddardStark
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    Thank the gods………… I saw some torrents of episode 2, and temptation was killing me, but now that I know this is a one time thing, and has since been removed, I can wait till it airs on Sunday.

  36. LL
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    Ahaha first time I see people so happy by cancelling :-D Fake news, makes sense !

  37. garik16
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    gotgotgot,

    As stated above, doing it once was not an issue – annoying for those of us not in those countries, but not exactly a problem of any sort…it wouldn’t result in increased piracy affecting the show. That’s what happened last year.

    Doing it EVERY WEEK is another story –> the additional incentive is minimum while the increased piracy is not small.

  38. NYI
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    It’s PAL sped up anyway…

  39. misha-bawlins
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Trololol because torrents.

  40. Mimsy
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Thank you HBO USA for pulling rank! I’ve been avoiding spoilers like the plague. I want to absorb the detail of the first episode, before I move onto the next, which has Brienne and is going to be AWESOME!

    My DirectTV had The North Remembers premiere air 3x’s in a row and I watched them all.. and it’s also dvr’d.. and I’ll watch it again tonight. I think I need help.

  41. fuelpagan
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Mimsy,

    We need to start a support group. I’ve watched it 5 times already.

  42. anon
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    This sucks. I liked the Web-Version a lot more, without any logos / banners etc.

  43. Black Lion
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Whew, and here I thought I will have a hard time to keep my mouth shut so as to not spoil the eps released earlier here in Poland. I am glad HBO resolved the European situation quickly. OTOH now I will have to wait 2 weeks for a new episode.

  44. Vanderhook
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    So was this just a miscommunication between the different regions of HBO? Or did they change their mind? Are the early premieres for Episode 2 taken down as well?

  45. Tessa Leonie
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    Meanwhile I am still pressed HBO netherlands is not broadcasting on the same day or the day after. I want my Game of Thrones in HD dammit and in a timely manner.

    ps, I find Carice’s accent slightly annoying, is this because I’m Dutch myself? Whatever I’ll get used to it.

  46. Liesie
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    Count me in, I could use some anti-Thrones therapy^^

  47. Liesie
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    Tessa Leonie,

    Probably not because you are Dutch, since it doesn’t bother me at all and I’m Dutch as well

    EDIT: Though there is also the possibilty of me being the weird one… :p

  48. Rillion
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Mimsy,

    Yeah, watched all three airings then watched it again on Monday night. I think I’ll skip watching it again tonight but will certainly watch it a fifth time before next Sunday.

  49. Mimsy
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    I’m here for you. HEY.. we can watch together! errr.. that’s probably not the type of support you need. haha!

  50. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Tessa Leonie,

    I don’t find her accent too annoying , because it’s not so typically Dutch when she’s in the role. It would have killed me if they decided to just give Mel a standard Dutch accent in English, brrr.

  51. Dee
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    Well, I for one am glad I got to the 2nd episode early, because I wasn’t very happy with the premiere and The Night Lands helped reignite my excitement for this season. It’s as if the 7 didn’t want me to be sad faced about my favourite show.

  52. Knurk
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    Tessa Leonie,

    Liesie,

    Hear Me Roar,

    she is getting a lot of heat on various dutch fora for her accent, bunch of whiners if you ask me. It’s typical dutch behaviour to burn her down instead of being proud there is a dutch person in the show. I do wish she stopped adressing her ‘haters’ on twitter though, seems a bit useless.

  53. Mimsy
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    I haven’t done too much of the HBO GO. This year I sat down and hacked my way into an old account and figured out our household “go” password. I didn’t set up the account and the Mister NEVER remembers his passwords or email links, so it was quite the chore!

    GOT is worth the effort and now I can play with maps and characters?? Someone needs to create a direwolf cursor so I can frolick in the 7 Kingdoms.

  54. Winterdark
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    I for one am glad I got to see it. After the weak premiere I was kinda sad and wasn’t really looking forward to seeing the rest. But after seeing this much better episode I’m very happy and really looking forward to seeing the rest.

  55. Lyonel the Red
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    We do need a support group indeed.

    My count is 11 on “The North Remembers”

  56. HERP-DERP
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    THERE ARE NO SPOILERS [not even minor] IN THIS POST.

    I actually happened to catch episode 12 while it was still on HBO-go, and based on what I have seen in the first 2 episodes here is what, in my opinion is the problem with the show this season, ESPECIALLY in episode 12:

    THERE ARE NO PAUSES IN THE DIALOGUE. It feels like the actors are just reading lines back and forth to each other from a script. There are points [esp in the second episode, but in the first as well!] where the content of the dialogue itself was fine, but it was so rushed it sounded just so shallow and lacking in authenticity. The writers appear to have sacrificed the quality of each scene for a greater quantity of scenes per episode. Its like they purposefully asked the actors not to pause while delivering their lines so that they can cram in more scenes . What esp annoyed me is that some of the added scenes were utterly pointless, and it felt like the writers added them only for the sake of change from the content of the book [this applies to both eps 11 & 12].

    HBO is not stupid. They are not going to go like “oh look the premiere got 4 million views now lets renew the show for another season.” The premiere got such high ratings because SEASON ONE of game of thrones was brilliant. The ratings of the premiere reflects nothing about season 2. If the show continues like this I am sure that the number of viewers will quickly decline with each episode, and I can see HBO giving the show the axe by the end of this season. Its sad, but I believe there is a good chance this may happen, esp given the high budget of the show.

  57. Liesie
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Knurk,

    Well there is at least one dutchie who is proud of our Carice :)

  58. Lars
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    HERP-DERP: If the show continues like this ,I am sure that the number of viewers will quickly decline with each episode, and I can see HBO giving the show the axe by the end of this season. Its sad, but I believe there is a good chance this may happen, esp given the high budget of the show.

    Ha, I’m going to enjoy quoting this to you in the near future. :-)

  59. Lucas van Dijk
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    I’m quite sure the Dutch accent of Carice is on purpose, because she’s of course from another country. Personally, I don’t have any problems with her accent, and I think it’s quite awesome she plays such prominent role in the series.

    Episode 2 spoiler: I’m not sure I like her being the mistress of Stannis

  60. HERP-DERP
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Lars,

    Lars: Ha, I’m going to enjoy quoting this to you in the near future. :-)

    I don’t mind you quoting it as long as you change the part of my response you bolded to:

    If the show continues like this I am sure that the number of viewers will quickly decline with each episode, and I can see HBO giving the show the axe by the end of this season. Its sad, but I believe there is a good chance this may happen, esp given the high budget of the show.

  61. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    HERP-DERP,

    You’re funny.

  62. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Lucas van Dijk: I’m quite sure the Dutch accent of Carice is on purpose, because she’s of course from another country. Personally, I don’t have any problems with her accent, and I think it’s quite awesome she plays such prominent role in the series.Episode 2 spoiler: I’m not sure I like her being the mistress of Stannis

    That was heavily implied in the books.

  63. Elena Amici
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Oh, thanks godness. R’hllor has saved us.. and the ratings

  64. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    HERP-DERP,

    I’ve seen both episodes as well, and I’ve seen the season premiere twice now, and can confidently say you don’t really know what you’re talking about/trolling. Maybe both.

    Either way, very glad that HBO won’t be airing each new episode through their streaming service. It didn’t seem like the kind of thing they’d do, anyway.

    And since I haven’t chimed in yet on the two new episodes, I found both of them exceedingly clever in the way they were able to condense and display information; the writing and the performances were all sharp; the show is technically superior to last season. Awesome stuff.

  65. Lars
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Lucas van Dijk: Episode 2 spoiler: I’m not sure I like her being the mistress of Stannis

    Just like Renly/Loras, it is not stated explicitly. But… It IS there. Where do you think the shadow baby comes from. Have you read ADWD, where Melisandre muses about her empty bed?

  66. Maxwell James
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    HERP-DERP,

    THERE ARE NO PAUSES IN THE DIALOGUE.

    This is funny because one thing I (originally) didn’t like about the first season, and particularly the first few episodes, was how many lengthy pauses there were in the dialogue. It felt like a Samuel Beckett play at times.

  67. Liesie
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    HERP-DERP: THERE ARE NO PAUSES IN THE DIALOGUE

    What episode did you watch??? Everything was rushed?! I’m sorry but I don’t agree. Did you really think that (spoilers for episode 2) the brilliant Tyrion/Janos/Bronn scene was rushed in it’s dialogue? Or what about the Littlefinger, Ross scene? He was threatening her quite slowely, and effectively if you ask me. Was it Balon who rushed his lines??? The only scene I can think of that was maybe a little rushed (again in dialogue), was the Arya/Gendry scene…

    EDIT: of course it’s your opinion, but this is mine

  68. Lucas van Dijk
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    Steven Swanson: That was heavily implied in the books.

    Episode 2 spoiler: Hmm, I knew they were close, but I thought they never had sex, or maybe I just missed some big details because I don’t understand each word of the English book.

    Oh well, been a while since I read book two, should definitely start reading the series again.

  69. HERP-DERP
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Liesie,

    I appreciate the edit. I personally felt that a lot of the scenes were rushed [examples include all scenes with stannis in both eps, the arya/gendry scene ……... You may not have felt the same, but I am sure that there are some people who will agree with me.

  70. Paul
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    Well, this is great news!

    And considering I won’t be home this week to watch it live, I guess I’ll spoil myself and grab a torrent and watch it Friday.

  71. galetki
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    and in hungary, and in romania, and…

  72. Anonymous Web User
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Episode 12 was sped up, for whatever reason. I “sampled” it, and watched only the first few minutes, and decided to wait for the normal version.

  73. Anonymous Web User
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    HERP-DERP:
    THERE ARE NO SPOILERS [not even minor] IN THIS POST.
    , ESPECIALLY in episode 12:

    THERE ARE NO PAUSES IN THE DIALOGUE. It feels like the actors are just reading lines back and forth to each other from a script. There are points [esp in the second episode, but in the first as well!] where the content of the dialogue itself was fine, but it was so rushed it sounded just so shallow and lacking in authenticity. The writers appear to have sacrificed the quality of each scene for a greater quantity of scenes per episode. Its like they purposefully asked the actors not to pause while delivering their lines so that they can cram in more scenes . What esp annoyed me is that some of the added scenes were utterly pointless, and it felt like the writers added them only for the sake of change from the content of the book [this applies to both eps 11 & 12]

    Maybe because you saw a sped up version. The leaked version is not normal speed.

  74. Liesie
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    HERP-DERP,

    Aha so only the Arya/Gendry scenes and the Stannis scenes that means you don’t think everything was rushed^^ There is still hope!

    Sorry for the other none spoiler tagged comment. Hope it will be approved to be deleted soon…

  75. James
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    It’s bit of a dumb move taking down the episode now, the “damage” has already been done. I don’t know why the “foreigners” can’t have 1 episode early as a promo for a new product in their country without us americans getting in a hissy fit because we don’t get it first. They pay money for it the same as us and it’s a promo for a new product same as last year.

  76. Mimsy
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    BAH! I feel like this thread is contaminated. My eyes bounced from post to post and everytime they landed it was on what I consider a “flag” word. I just caught words like.. ep 12.. spoil.. rushed.. ratings.. various country names (can’t be good).. R’hllor has saved us..

    OH THIS CAN’T BE GOOD.. I’m gonna sit this debate out.

  77. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous Web User,

    LOL. That’s funny.

  78. Andrija
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    I watched it just now and it is… well… just magnificent!!!!!!!! I have a big exam next Monday and at least I will be able to concentrate and actually study for a change instead of spending Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday online trying to get a glimpse of the following episode…

  79. sjwenings
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu: What about the renewal ? When are they going to announce it ?

    Maybe they won’t renew it.

    JK, but it would be nice getting an official renewal. We expected they’d do it today, but…

  80. Connie
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    I am VERY disappointed at the people in this thread who watched Torrented versions. Piracy is a real and legitimate crime and really does have an affect on the ‘little’ guys. You’re not stealing from jsut the super rich studio. You’re stealing from every actor, grip, set decorator, costumer, prop maker, sound guy, etc. Supporting the illegal purveyors of downloaded media, even if you didn’t pay for it yourself, is wrong and you should be ashamed.

    If you can’t wait for the show to be released on proper channels, you shouldn’t be watching it, PERIOD. You skew the numbers for the studio, they don’t think the show is as popular as it really is, and they get less money budgeted to the the show – which means the hard working people who get paid by HBO lose.

    I’m sorry if this is a little ranty but my husband is one of those guys who is affected by piracy and video theft and so am I. Grow up and pay for things you use like a real person does.

  81. junglejill
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous Web User: Maybe because you saw a sped up version.The leaked version is not normal speed.

    Lol. It is not sped up. It’s not even leaked, it was officially released by HBO Europe. The speed of ep. 2 is absolutely normal (and I didn’t find any of the dialog rushed, btw.)

  82. OGTargaryen
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    I tried watching it multiple times but only made it to 2 1/2 (I fell asleep lol) not because i thought the episode was bad, just a little boring imo. Great acting and scenery, just a little boring (stannis scene) but again that is my opinion, I still enjoyed the episode for the most part. I am also waiting until sunday to watch 2nd ep, I know it’s going to be far more exciting than the premiere since that was pretty much a big recap and indroduction to new characters. I will say that some of you do need therapy lol :P

  83. david
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    Connie,

    If companies would be a lot less archaic and embrace the internet instead of treating it as an enemy the piracy problem would be a lot less.

  84. Katie
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    James,

    They were going to release every episode a week early. It’s not an “entitled American” thing, it’s a “that could really have done damage to subscription levels and the show’s budget” thing.

  85. Knurk
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    Connie,

    let’s start a whole download debate! Just face it, probably 50% of the people who visit this website download it. A lot of the downloaders also buy the dvd’s and blu-rays, hence the enormous sales of those discs. I know it is wrong and illegal, but I don’t consider downloading the same thing as stealing.

  86. OGTargaryen
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    Connie,

    I do not pirate anything, however, studies have shown that piracy does not have that big a of an effect on rating and budget numbers. Yes it does hurt the little guy but if a show is popular it will not suffer that greatly. Game of Thrones is one the highest pirated shows on the internet yet it has not suffered in ratings, merch or dvd sales. I am not saying piracy is okay but saying it has a effect on a shows success is false, it really only hurts (as you can testify) the little people involved. The only industry that is really suffering from piracy is music and they have been for years even with the onset of itunes, etc.

  87. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    Lucas van Dijk: Episode 2 spoiler: Hmm, I knew they were close, but I thought they never had sex, or maybe I just missed some big details because I don’t understand each word of the English book.Oh well, been a while since I read book two, should definitely start reading the series again.

    There’s no shame in that, it was even subtler than Renly/Loras, and I think them portraying the relationship this way in the show is the first absolute guarantee we’ve had.

  88. Mike Chair
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings: Maybe they won’t renew it.

    It’s time to support the bottom!

    It’s not a question of if. It’s a question of when.

    See the last post. And craveonline today:

    With ratings that strong, most observers believe that “Game of Thrones” is a lock for season 3. The only question is whether HBO wants to capitalize on the early excitement and make an announcement now or wait until later in the season. The only way that a third season of “Game of Thrones” would be imperiled is if there is a massive viewer erosion over the next few weeks. But judging from the critical and popular response to the season premiere, that doesn’t seem likely to happen.

    HBO likes to capitalize like Shagga likes axes.

    See yesterday’s post, titled “Thrones season two premiere blows up on social media.

    Now, we’ve got Perez Hilton saying “Smackdown.”

    GoT got Cult!

    Nominated for, what?, 13 Emmys, two wins, plus Peter’s Golden Globe (and another GG nomination), plus all of these nominations and awards.

    Hey HBO, get ready to cast Tormund Giantsbane!

    Har!

  89. gotgotgot
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    OGTargaryen,

    Except there is no actual proof of piracy being a negative thing and hurting the little guy like you mention.
    While there is plenty of proof to support the opposite.

  90. Shelly
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    Thank God, I was abnormally worried about how this would affect the ratings. I know some of you say it doesn’t, but it wouldn’t have done the show any good either, that’s for sure, so it’s still better this way I assume. Plus we won’t have to fear all these early reviews and spoiler that would have come along with it.

    Can’t stop watching the first episode, does anyone else feel this way? Don’t remember being that excited for a new season ever before. Pure perfection so far.

  91. Lars
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    Flayed Man:
    Totally agree about YARA…

    …not saying the actress is unattractive….but idk..always pictured “asha” as jaw dropping smoking hot

    Based on what in the books? She clearly is supposed to be attractive, but “jaw dropping smoking hot” – no.

  92. Anonymous Bastard
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    Well, right…
    It makes sort of sense, but perhaps with all this speculation people got into about how badly it’ll hurt US ratings to have it released week early in europe…
    …someone should connect the link about how badly it hurts the exported shows that they are released days, weeks, often months later in europe… Time differences make sure release can’t really be ‘simultaneous’ but if you want to maximize your sales, you really should try for ‘the next day’…

  93. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Deciding upon how many seasons to green light
    sjwenings,

  94. Ashton Lee
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    Are we supposed to clap at this? Let the greenlanders bend the knee to HBO. I am Ironborn.

  95. the goat
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Carice haters smell of fear, and piss, and old bones.

  96. Lord Littlefinger
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    I watched it. I didn’t use torrent though, I used a streaming site so I’m all good right? I never took possession of the stolen bits in question.

    Meanwhile, I knew Gilli was busted. She’s tore up from the floor up.

    If all the episodes have already been filmed why do I have to wait a week between each episode to begin with?

    Connie,

  97. andrea
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    I already said what I thought in the other thread about episode 2 but I am still surprised so I´ll say this (without comment on the episode itself):

    Episode 1 was rushed and have some flaws to me, yes but Episode 2 made me happy. I don´t think is rushed and if it was I didn´t realize it. I´ll re watched on sunday. It was cute, thrilling, funny, awkward, editing and directing are better… happy is the word.
    In fact, I have no complains and it feels really weird.

  98. Lex
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    Connie,

    So… let’s say someone has no access to cable television at all, and has no choice but to pirate the show… BUT, this person has also spent over $200 on Thrones merchandise from the online store (T-shirts, posters, beer mugs, etc.), and purchased the DVDs as soon as they were released, not to mention spreading the word about the show almost as if he was hired by HBO as a promoter.

    Is the downloading still wrong? (Hint, I don’t think “yes” is the correct answer…)

  99. lonas
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    Connie,

    Take it easy Connie, I might or not might buy the DVD one year from now. But I am a huge fan like anyone else in this thread and simple will not wait until the TV decides to put it up in my country if GOT is available.
    Im sorry that piracy afectes your family. But do you recicle? How much water do you use while showering?

  100. Jeremy
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Well, I happened to watch the 2nd episode and it was amazing! I couldn’t resist!

  101. andrea
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous Bastard: It makes sort of sense, but perhaps with all this speculation people got into about how badly it’ll hurt US ratings to have it released week early in europe…
    …someone should connect the link about how badly it hurts the exported shows that they are released days, weeks, often months later in europe…

    This.
    This year we were lucky that the show will premiere simultaneously with the US but that almost never happens.

  102. Drfunk
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    The issue regarding piracy is very complicated and doesn’t have easy answers. The actual numbers of “true pirates” (people that will never pay a dime on anything) is actually quite small. The recording industry is an excellent example on how greed almost killed the industry. Various middle management kept poaching the pie, inflating album prices throughout the 80~90′s which pushed the whole piracy movement. Apple comes in, slaps those companies around and force them to sell their songs at a reasonable affordable rates and guess what music piracy is now a dead issue.

    Not sure how HBO is available in the states but I can tell you in foreign markets, the middle man (cable providers) will not offer HBO straight out, but instead will be packaged along other unwanted crap. So yeah when a channel can cost upwards of $100/month it can become an issue for some people. I’m not even talking about whole countries where it is not available.

    The future of HBO lies with the internet, they’ve recently gone into a little war with Netflix but I feel that a partnership of those 2 giants would solve everything. Doubt Disney and Time Warner will be interested but having 1 dedicated streaming site (like youtube) that would have every movie/tv show available at an affordable subscription rate would change piracy for good.

  103. the waif
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    Lex,
    i support you. I m from india and HBO india broadcast their original serieses 4 to 5 month later in our country plus they broadcast censored version without nudity (screw our fucking censor board).

    I cant wait that long.
    As i m active here at wicnet since last 5 mnth and i waste 5 to 6 hr a day (not complaing) reading posts and comments from fansites plus advertising whenever i get chance (free of charge!!) , i think i m part of the buzz team as hence give my contribution.

    And when dvds and BR get released , i buy both.

    So, at present only way to watch and take part in the main stream is torrent (some1 send me address of the guy inventing torrent, i want to kneel b4 him.;) )

    u know , at here in my clg i started first reading the books 3 yr back and now about 25-30 people watch and read books and most of us owns dvd/BR likes and votes on social media and imdb extra… So thats it.

    So, bonnie, u hv got some wrong idea(though not entirly)

  104. The DarkStar
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair: Hey HBO, get ready to cast Tormund Giantsbane!

    Har!

    lol

  105. Ned Stark Dies
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Good work HBO!

  106. Anonymous Web User
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    junglejill,

    The version I got is definitely sped up. Like I said, I only watched the first few minutes to make sure it was real. The dialogue was definitely going at a fast clip without pauses. I heard about the speed up and then I checked the opening credits, which is clearly faster and the opening theme is higher pitched. I know it was based on HBO go in Europe and I don’t know if the speed issue was particular to the version I got or not.

    I have no guilt with regard to getting the torrented version. My sister gave me her password to HBO go so I can watch legally, which is what I meant by waiting for the normal version. And I watched the premiere at her house. I also have season one on DVD.

    I’m glad HBO is not going to release early versions in Europe, because the move would have caused a lot of problems.

  107. Salladhor Saan
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    Look, if it makes you fell any better, I bought season 1 on DVD as soon as it was available via Amazon.uk and I don’t regret not one euro cent. As for watching it early today cause I downloaded it I don’t feel any regrets about it, I was madly curious especially cause I got to watch the filming and I just cannot wait for it anymore..
    And in just a few broad words I’d like to tell you guys a few bits about ep 2:
    Ghost looked fucking awesome! There was this one scene where they made him look completely natural, and I do mean flawless. An honest to God direwolf, perfect in every way, no sense of looking a bit off like Grey Wind. Kudos for the CGI crew
    Arya had a great scene with Gendry and that girl does really deserve an Emmy, she is just brilliant
    Varysand Tyrion had exchanged a few words (the scene from the trailers) and Tyrion shone
    And we get to seethe pirate king for the first time,Salladhor Saan looked amazing
    I won’t try to spoil anything but this episode is pure gold and I give it a 10!!!!

  108. Rhaelia
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Ep 12 is on my computer, but I haven’t watched it yet. And I decided I will wait until sunday. Now I feel relief, because it felt like cheating.

  109. Anonymous Web User
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Rhaelia,

    I just didn’t want the two week wait until the third episode, besides the fact that the video is of inferior quality compared to the HBO go version.

  110. Damián Erro
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    Mimsy,

    ep 12 doesnt have brienne

  111. Ned Stark Dies
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    MASSIVE SPOILER: Tyrion is not dead.

  112. Wastrel
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    Connie:
    I am VERY disappointed at the people in this thread who watched Torrented versions. Piracy is a real and legitimate crime and really does have an affect on the ‘little’ guys. You’re not stealing from jsut the super rich studio. You’re stealing from every actor, grip, set decorator, costumer, prop maker, sound guy, etc. Supporting the illegal purveyors of downloaded media, even if you didn’t pay for it yourself, is wrong and you should be ashamed.

    If you can’t wait for the show to be released on proper channels, you shouldn’t be watching it, PERIOD.You skew the numbers for the studio, they don’t think the show is as popular as it really is, and they get less money budgeted to the the show – which means the hard working people who get paid by HBO lose.

    I’m sorry if this is a little ranty but my husband is one of those guys who is affected by piracy and video theft and so am I. Grow up and pay for things you use like a real person does.

    Three things to say:
    1. Piracy does not hurt you. There is no actual evidence that piracy hurts anybody. The gigantic inflated numbers you see for how much money is “lost” as a result of piracy are based on taking the largest estimate of the number of pirates possible, assuming that no pirate ever goes on to pay for anything, and assuming that everyone who pirates would otherwise have bought the thing full price. In reality, most pirates would not have bought the thing they pirate if they’d had to pay for it – and those who would often do go on to pay for it by a different route. To the extent that there are small losses, these may well be (and in some cases demonstrably have been) more than made up for by the gains that come from an increased audience – piracy is the biggest advertising opportunity ever invented, and if publishers weren’t so used to thinking that the only way they can make money is through the barrel of a metaphorical gun, they’d realise that.
    [Indeed, as my economics textbook at uni explained to me, in the music industry at least piracy ought to help the artists considerably - the artists get screwed by the publishers because the publishers enjoy oligopolistic positions in an industry with high barriers to entry, and piracy allows those publishers to be circumvented, and hence their bargaining position weakened. I concede it's different for TV, though, where the publishers actually add something to the product (because TV inherently has high production costs that the artists couldn't otherwise cover)]

    2. Even if you were losing money, that doesn’t make it stealing unless the money belongs to you. If you offer a product and I come along and offer another product and steal your customers away, I’m not stealing your money, because it was never your money. It was your customers’ money. I just got them to spend it (or not spend it, in this case) elsewhere. It’s not theft if nobody’s doing anything wrong. I’ve yet to see any serious explanation of anything being wrong, morally speaking, with piracy, beyond repetitions of “it’s stealing!” (which is clearly untrue by normal definitions), and “it’s illegal!” (which is a helpful warning to be careful, but irrelevent in moral terms) and “it’s wrong!” (which is begging the question).
    Certain corporations that occupy privileged positions have been using those positions (and often implicit or explicit collusion) to maintain artificially high prices for products – prices that are higher than would be allowable in perfect competition, and prices that are higher than those generally seen as fair by the public. The existence of free communication among the masses, uncontrolled by elite interests, is breaking those cartels and ending the price-gouging. Those who have been profiting from the profiteering may well lose out in the process (or may not, see point 1) – which will often include innocent bystanders who have done nothing wrong. But that, sadly, is true whenever there is change within an industry. None of us have a right to a job for life – and attempts to enforce old ways of life are ultimately futile and counter-productive, in intellectual property just as much as in heavy manufacturing, or in artisanal craft before it. This isn’t theft, it’s just history moving on.

    [Now, if you want to argue against piracy, say that the price-gouging strategies didn't just go toward profits, they also went toward investment in market share, and that that investment took the form of attention-grabbing, audacious quality production values, and that without the concentration of capital that the monopolistic-distribution model allowed, entertainment will become dominated by cheap and unambitious fare. I don't know whether it's really true or not (I tend to think that if people really want something they'll pay for it to exist, and that the decline of the old monopolies will just spur the development of more voluntaristic (probably subscriber/supporter-based) payment methods - I'd point out that right now a project to make a sequel to an obscure '80s videogame may raise $2m in two weeks (it raised the first million in two days), without even having ANY actual product to show for it, only something that may or may not be produced in a year or two, and I'd suggest that in the long-run this sort of thing will be a lot more common), but at least that's a real argument. To convince people to change their behaviour you need to show them either that it's in their best interests to do so, or that it's immoral not to do so. Complaining about "stealing" isn't doing either.]

    3. Who do you think is pirating? Do you think the people who have gone to the effort of bootlegging an early polish release of episode two, just so that they can watch it five days earlier, are somehow NOT going to watch the episode again next week? And NOT going to buy the Blu-Ray? And all the merchandising?

    On the contrary, I know three people who have bought the blu-ray, and all of them did so because they liked the episodes they pirated. What are you more likely to buy – something you’ve seen before purchase, or something that’s kept hidden until you hand the money over? Well, that depends on whether the product is any good. In the case of GOT, letting the customer see what they’re getting just encourages them to buy.

  113. Anonymous Web User
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    Wastrel,

    Your arguments sound plausible, but without actual hard evidence which is impossible to gather because of obvious practical constraints, it’s still only a plausible, yet not definitive argument.

    You said that there’s no actual evidence that piracy doesn’t hurt anybody, but there’s no actual evidence that it doesn’t, either.

  114. Jordan Healey
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    Damn it, was looking forward to getting them all a week early.

    They probs just mad they didnt get them early lol.

  115. Lars
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    The piracy discussion is annoying… BUT…

    Saying that piracy never hurts anyone is QUITE the statement to make. And then to somehow take it further and make the claim that piracy actually benefits everyone just makes that even more incredulous. Beyond the pale.

    Yes, distribution models need to change. But that doesn’t make taking what you want right. The ‘entitlement society’ impression is hard to shake.

    You bought the DVD and/or Blu-ray? Good for you. But why couldn’t you wait???

  116. Dark Star
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    I dig Melisandre’s accent. It’s a different sound than anything I’m used to.

    Also, there’s ample evidence that pirated material leads to more exposure, and possibly more sales. That being said, it’s still thievery.

  117. Knurk
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    Lars: But why couldn’t you wait???

    why should we have waited?

  118. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    Hey Ontario pretty much made Prostitution legal why not piracy as well?

  119. Tamara
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    Lars: The ‘entitlement society’ impression is hard to shake.You bought the DVD and/or Blu-ray? Good for you. But why couldn’t you wait???

    Would YOU wait if you knew that you would still have to pay an exorbitant amount of money for manure you didn’t want just to watch one (1!) show 4, 5 or 6 months down the line??? No, I DON’T want Discovery, Lesbian Porn Channel nor Christian Revival Channel in the mix, I just want to view the frigging show! It is easy to be hollier than thou when you are living in the US and you actually have a few more options available than the rest of the world… But strangely our money is good enough when DVD sales need to be flaunted and the European cash-cow is just right for the milking because that money comes in rather nicely (shocking, isn’t it?)… Bollocks, I will be watching NOW, and will be paying for the DVD’s around the same time when the powers that be deem it appropriate, in their infinite wisdom, to finally air the blasted thing for all of us commons. I have no qualms about it and I do not believe I’ll be mentioning this during my Easter confession as something that weighs heavily on my soul and keeps me up at night.
    And no, piracy is not something that needs to be encouraged but neither should the network’s stupidity and stubborness. Good night!

  120. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    HERP-DERP,

    Your nuts! HBO is not cancelling Game of Thrones any time soon. It would be disastrous for them, like cancelling True Blood mid-second season.
    Whether you have noticed or not Game of Thrones is the buzz word nowadays. Reviewers and bloggers and entertainment reporters from famous magazines and newspapers make Game of Throne references, the Simpsons did their parody, exhibits are released in major cities, everyone gets a chance to sit on the Iron Throne. Two video games have been made, a comic book adaptation is nearly six or seven issues in, they play the GoT theme song on the radio, in movie theatres, the novels dominate the best seller lists….I could go on and on.

    It’s building gradually but Game of Thrones is a pop culture phenomenon. Even if the ratings drop (I seriously doubt it) when people hear about season 2 from friends, about the Blackwater for instance, word of mouth will spread. People will download the episodes and buy the DVDS and blu-rays. No HBO series has ever been this marketable. And Time Warner who owns HBO know this.

    It’s one thing to cancel a series like Rome or Deadwood, they may have had decent audiences but in the end they are just historical epics, same with Sopranos or Six Feet Under or True Blood. True Blood rode the vampire craze and that gave it legs while other stand alone HBO series had to contend on their own merit. Sure they got critical buzz and were somewhat marketed but nothing like the way this series has been.

    HBO would f*** itself in the ass if they cancelled it now.

    Cancelled? Your either frigging insane, a worry wart or a troll.

  121. Raine
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    Piracy hurts the little guys only because the big guys won’t accept even a slight cut in their profits. They’d rather fire people and keep prices high than lowering prices and not buying a new summer house every year. It’s absurd how much people revere showbiz over other fields.

  122. andrea
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

    Oh the hypocrisy. I know loosing jobs is terrible but please, stop looking at your own navel only for a minute.
    Calling people thieves here? On this site? C´mon.
    A reminder (Eddie Izzard style): “Do you know there´s other countries, right? Right?” Please, use your heads. The world has (and had) major problems some of you seem to ignore.

  123. Delta1212
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

    Knurk: why should we have waited?

    That’s pretty much the definition of entitlement, though. “I am entitled to use illegal methods to get things that I want because it isn’t fair that I have to wait to legally obtain something I want.”

    And yes, I’ve done it, though the frequency with which I even stream things through “unofficial” channels online has dropped off markedly over the past few years and I’ve stopped torrenting altogether. Considering just how easily accessible things become within a relatively short period of time these days (and yes, a year or two is short), there’s no reason for me not to wait to have legitimate access to things other than “I want it now” which has come to strike me as childish.

    I’m not normally one to preach against piracy. From what I’ve seen, those people who get especially involved in the debate on either side tend to overstate their case and cherry pick facts (or make sweeping assumptions) that support their preselected beliefs while ignoring evidence to the contrary. I don’t, and for the foreseeable future won’t, touch on the various ways in which piracy helps or hurts different industries because I don’t know what the numbers look like, and I’m not entirely sure anybody really does no matter how many people claim to (and claim they support their own position on piracy).

    That said, none of this content is necessary to life, which means the only reason to pirate anything is because you feel you are entitled to that content. You can’t argue against someone making this claim, because it is true.

  124. Anonymous Web User
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    All the moralizing when it comes to condemning people who download pirated material is silly when there are much worse things to worry about. I want to know what the holier-than-thous are doing to make the world a better place such as getting rid of drug lords, human trafficking, starvation, dictatorships, torture, etc.

  125. Delta1212
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous Web User:
    All the moralizing when it comes to condemning people who download pirated material is silly when there are much worse things to worry about.I want to know what the holier-than-thous are doing to make the world a better place such as getting rid of drug lords, human trafficking, starvation, dictatorships, torture, etc.

    Personally, I donate my time to a food pantry that provides meals to families in my community who can’t otherwise afford to eat. I’m also on the e-mail list for volunteering at fundraisers for a regional women’s shelter that houses and aids victims of domestic violence. :)

  126. Qazokju
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    Where has morality gone? It’s just a show. People, you can have self control. The internet has enabled the reptilian instinct. But you can say no. You can wait 6 days. But fret not. You are but human, prone to make mistakes.

    But I say this is just a show. For some people, this show means so much, like everything. These people are of course troubled people. Like the guy who demanded more baby blood. Demented. It’s not just a show, but it’s a violent sex show. So… when do your toes touch the ground? You bunch of freaks!

    As for myself, I will presently watch the s02e02 via my PAID subscription of the fastest usenet, giganews which r0x. Then I will fling chimp feces at the screen because I can afford it. And because I’m well educated and have a decent sense of morality.

  127. Knurk
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    Delta1212,

    I actually don’t feel entitled at all, I don’t think I have a right to this show the instant after it aired in the US. But it’s simply there, right in front of my nose. I’m hurting no-one here (my ever favourite Locke-principle) so why should I wait? Half the fun of GoT is experiencing it in the online community, so with waiting I’d probably even never buy the blu-rays because I lose interest with the lack of fan-interaction.

  128. Lex
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    Let’s get real. It’s utterly ridiculous to imagine anyone waiting a full year to watch the show, just for moral/ethical reasons.

    It’s also ridiculous to accuse those who download the show of lacking morality. I’m sure that there are many, many people on this site who download the show, and yet are still well educated and morally decent people.

    Some of you guys really need to grow up.

  129. gotgotgot
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    Wastrel,

    Great post . Totally agree.

  130. andrea
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 11:03 pm | Permalink

    Knurk: fan-interaction.

    Did you read my comment about episode 2? Am I a fan now? O_O What will I do now without my complaints?

  131. afartherroom
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    andrea,

    Don’t worry! Maybe episode 3 will have something you really dislike in it. Never give up hope!

    :-D

  132. Hi-Fi
    Posted April 3, 2012 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    Delta1212: Considering just how easily accessible things become within a relatively short period of time these days (and yes, a year or two is short), there’s no reason for me not to wait to have legitimate access to things other than “I want it now” which has come to strike me as childish.

    Tell me. Do YOU have to wait a year for Game of Thrones to be broadcast in your country? Or do you get the episodes every Sunday?

    I’d love to see you talking about how short is a 2-years wait if you weren’t getting your GoT fix every week.

  133. Violentos
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    I am a huge pirate. I pirate everything. I contribute nothing to view counts except the torrent seed count. But I also show my support to the things I love. In the case of Thrones, I bought the Blu-Ray and merchandise. In the case of music artists (who make like 10% of album sale profit by the way… the rest goes to the label.), I support them by going to their live concerts and purchasing shirts, which is really how the artists themselves make the most money besides radio plays.

    And for the record, album and television sales in general are higher than they’ve ever been despite the claims that piracy is a hindrance.

  134. Drfunk
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 12:44 am | Permalink

    Hi-Fi: Tell me. Do YOU have to wait a year for Game of Thrones to be broadcast in your country? Or do you get the episodes every Sunday?

    I’d love to see you talking about how short is a 2-years wait if you weren’t getting your GoT fix every week.

    Instead of debating the morality of piracy (both sides could go on forever). Why not focus on the fact that the TV medium needs to adapt and change to the new age of the internet? Advertisement revenues is a thing of the past now with DVR’s, streaming/pirating.. hardly anyone watches the show “live” due to RL stuff. If HBO were to offer their channel online for a flat monthly fee then it would solve a lot of problems. They however are constrained with dealing with the fat cable provider pigs who keep overcharging us as the middle man.

    Seriously, if there is such a thing as an evil entity it’s the Cable/internet providers in N America. You guys should see how much it costs in Asia for the latest fiber optic lines. Everything is dirt cheap over there because an aggressive competing free market along with a retarded amount of users made that system affordable for everyone. Providers over here are gouging us from cell phone usage/data plan to internet bandwith speed/usage. More and more channels are being “packaged” away from basic service with the HD gimmick as an excuse.

    I wish everything was streamlined the way Itunes took over the mp3 market, Netflix was doing great for a while until HBO decided to be snobs and remove their content.

  135. HERP-DERP
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:05 am | Permalink

    Anonymous Web User,

    Anonymous Web UserMaybe because you saw a sped up version. The leaked version is not normal speed.

    ARE U SERIOUS!?! LOL! Okay, so if the final version to air next week is longer than 51 minutes, please disregard my first comment [where I criticized the show for being too rushed lol..]

  136. Wigwam
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:09 am | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    I practically wrote an essay on this very point on the initial Episode 2 spoiling thread and posted it after the comments were disabled and lost the damn thing. Thank you for pointing out the cable provide situation, as I’m sure it’s relevant to many others besides yours truly.

    But yes, I can’t get HBO unless I subscribe to Comcast’s Xfinity package, which is about $100 a month. Too bad cable is mostly a dinosaur. My family rents Korean dramas and subscribes to the whole Netflix package. That’s how we watch things. HBO Go is a fantastic product, but in order to subscribe to HBO, my family needs to pay a heap each month for something we won’t ever use. I’d GLADLY just subscribe to HBO. It’s basically the only thing lacking in my Netflix subscription aside from the recent departure of STARZ programming.

    I’ve been pirating each episode of this show with every intention of buying it when it’s officially released. And honestly, there was no question of that, especially since the Blu-ray was designed to be worth owning. I didn’t even have a Blu-ray player. I bought a PS3 to play them and marathon them with my friends, who I’ve actively converted to GoT addicts since the show began (I recommended the books before that, but most of them don’t like reading…). This is how I’ll consume the show unless HBO is magically divorced from Comcast’s high-end packages, which I have no use for. Hell, if they tell me it’ll guarantee a higher budget, I’ll buy more Blu-ray sets.

    On another note, SPOILER-FREE impressions of Episode 2:

    Who thought it was rushed? This is THE most natural episode of the show I’ve ever seen, and The North Remembers left me feeling almost the same way. Everything feels so organic! Barely anything feels like a disguised primer for the series and its complexities. As much as I adore the first season, it had a weirdly mixed identity much of the time… perhaps I’m just ready to take the show on its own terms, but the general quality of the second episode of the season really impressed me. I think a huge factor in this is the cinematography. The camera can have a huge say in the flow of the show, and this season’s been shot so naturally, and a bit more cinematically. The first season, for all its many highs, really lacked in this department. It was almost clumsy at times, with the camerawork more often than not failing to carry the show moment to moment. I don’t care about the changes to the story. This show is finally beginning to feel like its own beast, a change of pace I welcome with open arms and legs… which leads me to another thought.

    Personally, I misliked A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons. I believe they could have easily been cut into one slightly more interesting book if you didn’t add anything and only trimmed it down. My money is on D&D reworking that sad chapter of the series and fashioning it into something genuinely interesting. It’s just my opinion, but Feast and Dance are the Halo 2 of ASOIAF, minus the multiplayer revolution.

  137. Damryn of Dorne
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:10 am | Permalink

    watched it.
    loved it.
    won’t spoil it.
    will wait 2 more weeks.
    continue on.

  138. Lex
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:12 am | Permalink

    Violentos,

    Exactly. IMO, it is 100% morally acceptable to pirate the show if you eventually purchase the DVD/Blu-rays. Or are people now going to argue that the only moral option is to pay for the show TWICE, via HBO and then on DVD/Blu-ray?

  139. Wigwam
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:17 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    I still feel guilty for evading the proper channels, but it is sort of the reverse of owning a movie and downloading a digital copy from elsewhere. There’s no doubt I’ll be buying every other Blu-ray set they throw at me. Got to say, though, the exclusive special features were a HUGE selling point to me as a fan of the books and the series. The Guide to Westeros covers a lot of ground the series couldn’t while also providing a clearer look at Westerosi history than even the books provided. Now THAT’S content. That’s a huge factor in hooking downloaders into being paying customers. Offer content that is simply better consumed in the form of the official release!

  140. OGTargaryen
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:20 am | Permalink

    wow this thread really has become interesting. OT but I think Roy Dotrice (a personal friend of George) has done the best accents/voices of all the characters imo. If anybody wants another way to experience GoT other than reading or watching the show, then I really, really recommend listening to Roy’s fantastic reading of the books (aside from book 4, I beleive he was sick during that time, someone else who isnt too bad does FFC). He does, however, change some of the voices in book 5 which makes sence because it was os many years after SoS. He does such a wonderful job, his Doloros Edd is amazing! Roy paints a whole other picture of Westeros in your mind. He also plays Hayllne this season I beleieve. Be warned, each book is like 25 cds, but I personally have an hour commute to and from work everyday so it works out, again well worth the investment if you ask me. “Rack em.”

  141. afartherroom
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:20 am | Permalink

    Wigwam: I think a huge factor in this is the cinematography. The camera can have a huge say in the flow of the show, and this season’s been shot so naturally, and a bit more cinematically. The first season, for all its many highs, really lacked in this department.

    I thought the last couple of episodes of last season were also notably more cinematic than the rest and had a better visual flow — and they were also directed by Alan Taylor, the same fellow who directed the first two episodes of this season. I’m beginning to think that I’m just a big fan of his directing style, and I was glad to see that he has a couple more episodes this season. (Although needless to say, I’d be thrilled if all the direction this season had that same feeling of visual assurance.)

  142. Lex
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    OGTargaryen,

    Are you excited to see Roy Dotrice in the show, this season? I am!

  143. OGTargaryen
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    There’s also the Dunk and Egg novels available as wel which are fun to listen to ;)

  144. OGTargaryen
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:23 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    Oh I am! I can’t wait to not only see him own his role, but also that amazing voice lol

  145. Lex
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:24 am | Permalink

    OGTargaryen,

    I wonder how his portrayal of Hallyne the Pyromancer will compare to his reading of Hallyne in the audiobook. Same voice?

  146. OGTargaryen
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:28 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    I hope he does the same creppy, kinda studdery (is that a word?) voice but i’m sure the director um directed him in the direction he wanted to voice to be lol. I do wish he was able to be cast as Pycelle (he was originally supposed to be but sick again I think). He would have nailed Pycelle (not that the current pycelle doesnt do a good job)

  147. Wigwam
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:29 am | Permalink

    afartherroom,

    I think he was slated to direct episodes 8 and 10 this season too.

    Ah, now I’m worried about every episode he isn’t gracing with his magic streak. Still, though, I also have to tip my hat to the production as a whole. Even with his work last season, Taylor can’t have been the single factor in making the show look as wonderfully crafted as it does this season. The sets so far lack the faint specter of artifice I felt in some first season scenes. Each corner of the world feels bigger. I love how they’re shooting in all these wonderful locales and outdoing themselves with the furnishings.

    Lena Headey’s eyebrows aren’t hogging the spotlight either, and she’s beginning to resemble her character all the better by abandoning the overuse of those weird bemused expressions from the first season. Gah, so much to love!

  148. Delta1212
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:36 am | Permalink

    Hi-Fi: Tell me. Do YOU have to wait a year for Game of Thrones to be broadcast in your country? Or do you get the episodes every Sunday?

    I’d love to see you talking about how short is a 2-years wait if you weren’t getting your GoT fix every week.

    GoT? No. Several other shows that I enjoy just as much? Yes.

  149. Damián Erro
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:36 am | Permalink

    HERP-DERP,

    I saddly have too agree with you, having seen both episondes 11 & 12 at least 3 times each, and recently rewatched all season 1… season 2 is just too crambled up, there’s no room for breathing, everything is so rushed giving the actors no time for actually acting and thus making the series a lot more confusing for new viewers and/or non-readers.

    An example of this rushness: at the end of ep 11 stannis sends THE letter, in the next scene Robb already has it (Robb-Jaime scene, amazing btw) in episode 12 everyones has read it, its not even shocking news, its more like that happened a long time ago and even tyrion jokes about it… another one: at 8min from the beggining of episode 12 alton lannister is already in kings landing, I dont know why I found this pretty disturbing since it kind of gives you a bad sense of the scale of westeros.

    The problem I see here is too many great scenes, too many new characters packed in a 60 (or less) min episode. Im really hopping this rushness is beacause these 2 first episodes are some sort as an introduction for all the storylines and in later episodes we get to see less but more developed scenes of everyone’s storyline.

    The serious problem is the confusion it raises to new and non-reader viewers. This is what may lead to a cancellation of the series.

  150. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:42 am | Permalink

    Damián Erro,

    The show is not going to be cancelled. Your fretting over nothing friend! I appreciate your concern though :-)

  151. Drfunk
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:42 am | Permalink

    Wigwam,

    I’m not justifying that piracy is ok but those who are adamant HBO is losing millions and will go bankrupt over it are just being silly. True pirates who won’t pay for anything represent such a small tiny fraction of this demographic that it’s not even worth mentioning them. Between the books, dvd/blue ray, various merchandise from hbo, a lot of these “pirates” are giving back to HBO. Is it the public’s fault that HBO doesn’t sell their services directly? The reason why cost keeps going higher is because of the useless middle man parasite. We only need to look how the music industry was able to reinvent themselves recently. Personally, paying $15 for a movie ticket nowadays is borderline criminal when it used to be 3$ less than 20 years ago.

    The quality of the movies has changed, same ratio of shit movies to great movies. My internet used to cost 10$/month with my awesome USR Robotics modem. Cable broadband came in then specialty channels, which morphed into channel packaging… all those extra 3.99, 5.99 /month adds up. I currently pay 80$ for my cell (with data plan), 85$ for my internet (with bandwith cost), 30$ for basic cable (they won’t let me get internet without basic cable btw), $20 for the “digital” package (which is needed for all HD channels), and then HBO cost another 17$ a month. I’m never home to “watch” my tv due to work/social life. The only thing i use extensively is my internet. So yeah though i’m not pirating, I can certainly understand how some can be skittish about paying all that just to get HBO legitimately. The beauty of it is, this is 1 of the 2 providers available here so they know they can ass rape us all night long. HBO Go is a good initiative but they need to offer it for online on their own.

    Netflix is going to come out with their own original programming, it’s time for HBO to explore that business model.

  152. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:45 am | Permalink

    HERP-DERP,

    A sped up version? Weird! If that is the case than I retract my incendiary reply to your doom and gloom post.

  153. Wigwam
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    Damián Erro,

    I wouldn’t ascribe this to the new season alone. Only a few little lines here and there indicated any significant passage of time in the first season, like the month-long ride on the Kingsroad to King’s Landing, how long the Starks were in King’s Landing, how long Bran was comatose, and the time it took for every Tom, Dick, and Arry to learn of Ned’s fate. The real difference in this season so far is every minute is brimming with content whereas the first season hads it share of semi-veiled expository dialogue (while still managing to gloss over Valyrian steel in its arcane entirety due to some dumb miracle) and stalling.

    I began enjoying the first season for what it was upon my fourth time through. Maybe the projector made it more immersive than it was on my monitor. Even so, the passage of time is something only the book could faithfully simulate with its many pages. In a way, the first season’s storytelling was both slow and rushed. At least season two’s revised scope lets us see more of the world, a sensation the first season delivered to a lesser extent, particularly with the boiled-down Dany arc and travel-size wolves and watered down lore.

    I love this new season. Despite some departures from details, it feels more like the book. Even the new interactions serve to reinforce the plot and color the characters instead of functioning as fill-in filler.

  154. Lex
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    Wigwam,

    I was blown away by how much more natural and confident Lena Headey was in the new episode. I liked her in Season 1, but this is already MUCH better. For example, the scene when she’s talking to Tyrion, and the scene when she confronts Littlefinger (the way she smiles/laughs and says “No, I’ve changed my mind, don’t kill him”). Huge improvement.

  155. feyrband
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    I watched it, it was amazing, I’m still paying for HBO, deal with it.

  156. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:57 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    If you notice in that entire scene when Tyrion is speaking to Varys and the rest of the small council she is flicking her finger against her wine cup in a state of supreme agitation :-) you can feel her tense up just before she explodes. So naturally played. Peter Dinklage must be a magic charm for her or something because their chemistry is palpable. Headey’s Cersei was probably my favourite part of the episode.

    And in completely aesthetic terms…she was smoking hot. Sorry If I offend Ladies of the board…

  157. Wigwam
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 2:01 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    It seems like such a small thing, but I honestly didn’t know how much I missed Cersei as I knew her from my reading until she brought bits of it to life for me on the screen this week. Her interviews leading up to the season hinted at this too. I just couldn’t feel her last season. She was too cold to be a Southern queen.

    I wonder if they changed her eyes. For some reason they stuck out to me more in that particular scene. It’s a WONDERFUL sign for me when the show is beginning to remind me what I loved about the books and building on that dormant fanaticism that was tempered by reading Dance and adapting to the first season of the series. [laughs]

    Davos and Saan have been mentioned, but I’d like to add my praise to that pool as well. Almost all the characters have a new life to them somehow.

  158. HERP-DERP
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 2:03 am | Permalink

    Damián Erro,

    Nice to finally see someone who agrees with me! yeah hopefully this will change in future episodes. But if there is one thing they’re still doing right this season that would be ending episodes with a bang! That scene with Jon at the end of ep12 was insane… I’m wondering where they are going to go with that though.. as this doesn’t happen in the books..

  159. Damián Erro
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 2:06 am | Permalink

    HERP-DERP,

    Yeah I agree with you! and about ep 12.. I kind of remember its implied on the books, craster have some sort of deal with the others so they wont harm him and his wives

  160. HERP-DERP
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 2:11 am | Permalink

    Damián Erro,

    yeah I know but Jon never witnesses it and gets hit in the head!

  161. Lex
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 2:24 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    Lex,

    Peter Dinklage must be a magic charm for her or something because their chemistry is palpable. Headey’s Cersei was probably my favourite part of the episode.

    And in completely aesthetic terms…she was smoking hot.

    I remember the interview where she mentioned being good friends with Peter, and was excited that she would have some scenes with him in Season 2. Considering the Tyrion/Cersei scenes are some of my favourite parts of Book 2, I couldn’t be happier with the way things are going!

    And yes, Lena looks noticeably hotter than last year. Glad it’s not just me! I’m not sure what it is. Better wig? Better make up? No idea, but it’s definitely working.

  162. Delta1212
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 2:42 am | Permalink

    Alright, I’m just going to drop this here before I go to sleep because I managed to dive into a debate I didn’t really want to join.

    I don’t really have a huge problem with piracy. I don’t do it for ethical reasons, but I don’t really ever expect other people to adhere to my ethical positions on anything. Ethics in general is a complicated enough subject that, outside of some really major positions, I try to avoid judging people for disagreeing with me on the subject.

    That said, I do have problems with the way this topic gets debated. Before I get into them, let me note that this doesn’t apply to every pirate, and there are plenty of people on the other side of this particular debate who are just as guilty of using bad reasoning, though generally in a different form.

    Ok, to start, there is one pretty much all encompassing reason that people pirate things, and that is convenience. It’s not that a person can’t wait for the content, because many people manage to do that. It’s not because piracy helps a product by spreading word of mouth. It’s not the result of a careful study of the economic impact on the industry in question which has determined that the effects are negligible.

    It’s because it’s convenient and any possible damage inflicted is minor, nebulous and vague at best. For some, perhaps many, people, the decision to pirate a thing really would have no effect on anything at all.

    The problem arises when other people question this behavior. Now, a lot of those people are greedy, vindictive, misinformed, or lying and seriously overstating just *how* questionable that behavior is. That doesn’t mean a reasonable person can’t also find grounds to question it, however. For the record, I hold a number of positions that I also think a reasonable person could find grounds to question, I just happen to think the scales tip more one way than the other, even if it isn’t clear cut and dried.

    When people start making claims about the morality of our actions, most of us have trouble simply accepting this and moving on. What happens is something akin to the following: Person A says Action 1 is wrong. I perform Action 1 regularly. I am a good person. Therefore, Action 1 is not wrong, therefore somethin is wrong with Person A’s argument/judgement.

    This happens almost automatically without us having to think it through, and once it does, we start looking for evidence to back up that conclusion. (In this case, many people on the other side of the debate have an even shorter path: Action 1 is wrong. Person A performs Action 1 regularly. Therefore Person A’s judgement is wrong. And search for evidence to support this).

    Unfortunately, many on both side wind up looking for evidence to support the position that they started with for reasons that have nothing to do with interpreting that evidence and everything to do with which position fits better with their own actions and interests. This means most of the evidence that gets bandied about on either side is junk, and the debate quickly turns into a case of telling the other person they are wrong and/or why they are stupid. There’s very little substance to any of the discussions I’ve ever seen on this because nobody is more invested in seeing objective evidence than in seeing themselves vindicated.

    Normally, I’m smart enough to just sidestep the entire mess, but occassionally I don’t heed that better judgment that tells me what the rest of you choose to do, what you choose to believe and how you choose to argue with each other about it really doesn’t affect me and isn’t any of my business. So I find myself in an argument that I don’t even believe has a right answer and those never, ever end well.

    I swear this comment had a point when I started, but I seem to have lost it, so I’m just going to hit post, wish you all a good night and move on to future WiC conversations that I’ll find more enjoyable to be a part of.

  163. Spryte
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 2:47 am | Permalink

    Lex:

    And yes, Lena looks noticeably hotter than last year. Glad it’s not just me! I’m not sure what it is. Better wig? Better make up? No idea, but it’s definitely working.

    She IS beautiful and captivating. You can feel her power and presence. I’ve read tidbits of people here who were disappointed with her performance and/or appearance last season, but I never had problems with any of the emotions portrayed in season 1; it was all very effective. Plus, I always remember her from one of my favorite made for TV movies ever — Merlin!

  164. afartherroom
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 2:47 am | Permalink

    Wigwam: I wonder if they changed her eyes.

    Yes, I also noticed her eyes a few times during the season premiere and found myself wondering whether she was wearing new contact lenses or if her scenes were simply being lit differently. I agree that her eyes look lighter-colored and far more striking this year.

    Unlike many, I absolutely loved Headey’s performance last year, but I’m glad to see that others are beginning to warm to her as well. I personally really approve of the approach the writers have chosen to take with Cersei (whose characterization I consider to be one of the greatest flaws of the books), but it was definitely a significant departure from the source material, and last year I felt as if Headey herself might have wound up taking more than her fair share of the heat for that decision. Now that Show!Cersei and Book!Cersei are beginning to converge a bit more, I hope that at least some of people who found her performance distracting last year will start finding it more to their tastes.

    And she does look radiant! Motherhood must agree with her.

  165. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 3:01 am | Permalink

    afartherroom,

    There was the one shot when Tyrion is assuring her that trading with the Starks will get Jaime back when you see her face in semi-profile and her eyes are amazing. For a brief moment there I felt her pain. Absolutely gorgeous. I also love the Lannister crimson gown with the lion embroidery that she wore.

    Well I’m gone to bed. Hopefully I will wake up to news of two season back to back renewal deal from HBO.

  166. Kate
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 3:52 am | Permalink

    Delta1212,

    I agree with your views. Although pirate many things, I agree that my actions are on the moral grey zone at the least. I believe they are justified, and that’s why I keep doing them, but it’s ot something to be proud of.

    At least, hope that when doing it I’m contributing in changing the business models. Because I’d love nothing more to be able to pay for viewing the episodes (but not altoghether with other channels or series I won’t watch, and not some months later)

  167. Louisa
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 4:43 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    afartherroom,

    There was the one shot when Tyrion is assuring her that trading with the Starks will get Jaime back when you see her face in semi-profile and her eyes are amazing. For a brief moment there I felt her pain. Absolutely gorgeous. I also love the Lannister crimson gown with the lion embroidery that she wore.

    Well I’m gone to bed. Hopefully I will wake up to news of two season back to back renewal deal from HBO.

    I think Lena is wearing contact lenses. I watched the second episode and there were a couple of scenes where her eyes look almost green. It’s a very wonderful change.

  168. Hairy Anus
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 4:43 am | Permalink

    It sucks cause I have to wait two weeks to see what happens next :(

  169. DavosFTW!
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 6:10 am | Permalink

    Piracy is the wrong term. Piracy implies stealing. Getting the show from torrents is more like smuggling. We aren’t taking anything from anyone. We’re taking a copy of a product. We are sneaking it out and avoiding all the taxes and duties, providers and companies might charge us but those companies aren’t having anything stolen from them.

    Stealing is wrong, smuggling is what Davos and Han Solo do. Smuggling is awesome.

  170. Wastrel
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    On entitlement: no, I don’t think I’m entitled to the show. If they stopped making the show, I would have no moral case against them – I don’t have a right to be able to see the show. What I have, however, is a right not to be stopped from seeing the show – except in ways that can be morally justified.

    This is the same point as where another commenter said that I had failed to show that there was hard evidence that piracy didn’t hurt anybody.

    Both of these seem to come down to a basic question: are things, by default, prohibited or allowed?

    I am a liberal. I believe that everything is morally permitted unless it is not morally permitted. That is: if you want to ban me from doing something – or even if you want to try to convince me not to do something – you have to come up with reasons why I shouldn’t. If you can’t find any reason to stop me, then I get to do what I want. The other perspective is the authoritarian perspective: everything is prohibited unless I can find a convincing reason why I should be allowed to do it.

    So these commenters are missing the point. I don’t have to prove that my actions don’t hurt anybody – I get to do what I want unless you can show that my actions do hurt somebody (and then that that hurt is a hurt that I’m morally responsible for – almost every decision we make can hurt somebody in some way, but we aren’t required to prevent all of those hurts, only some). Likewise with entitlement: you seem to be assuming that you are entitled to prevent me from watching. On the contrary, I believe the assumption must be with freedom, and the prohibitions as minimal as is required, and as minimal as can be justified.

    This is not the decline of morality. This is not, in many cases, people finding excuses to do something they know is wrong. This is an assertion of morality – the morality of freedom, intellectual as well as practical. There is no morality in submitting to the will of the powerful as though it were divine command, and enforcing that will upon others. There is no morality in assuming that ordinary people have no rights until they are granted them, by concession, by the powerful. We have all the rights, and if you want to take them away, you need to justify that.

    So go on. It shouldn’t be too hard. We’re not idiots around here, we can follow an argument, I’m sure. I can’t speak for others, but myself I’ve put a lot of thought into morality, and I’ve read most of the philosophers who have been most foundational and most respected in our moral theory, so it shouldn’t be so hard to point me to the arguments that prove that I don’t have these rights. I mean, I’ve failed so far to find any such arguments, but maybe I’m just missing something obvious. So show me.

    But no, all we hear is “it’s wrong”, “you have no morality”, “you shouldn’t do that”, “you haven’t justified that”. I don’t have to justify piracy. I haven’t been justifying piracy – I’ve been attacking the positions that seek to claim that it is unjust. There’s an important difference. You’re saying that I haven’t demonstrated that pirates are innocent – I’m saying that you haven’t demonstrated that pirates are all guilty, or even that they’re guilty-by-default-but-sometimes-justified. Our “entitlement” is the entitlement to be considered innocent, until shown to be guilty – not only in law, but in moral opinion. If you can’t show that a pirate has done anything wrong, you ought not to condemn him. If there’s any lack of morality showing in this conversation its with those who wish to suppress and silence and condemn those against whom they have no moral case whatsoever – against whom they do not even try to propose a case, those whom they feel they are entitled to condemn without even needing to think about putting forward a case.

    I accept that there are things I shouldn’t do, and things that are wrong. What I don’t accept is that we should accept that piracy is one of them simply because some rich people have said they don’t like it.

    Show me the argument.

    [EDITED TO ADD: to clarify, it's really not that I want you to keep your morality out of my life. I welcome your morality. Please, share your morality, I've no problem with accepting good moral guidance. Only don't confuse morality with prejudice. I don't mind being told that something is wrong, what I mind is being told that without any actual argument or reasoning. If you don't know WHY something is wrong, you're not sharing your morality, you're sharing your personal tastes - what you happen to like or dislike. Which can be interesting, of course, but is very different from morality. You can encourage me to share your personal tastes, but you have no right to condemn me for not doing so. Now, if you really do have morals and not mere prejudices - that is, if you know some REASON why people shouldn't pirate - please inform us of it.]

  171. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    Wastrel,

    Regardless if it’s a moral or ethical issue or an existential issue etc it is against the law. For now anyway. I would like to see that same speech for all it’s eloquent words hold up in a court of law.
    The only respite piracy and those who commit piracy receive is that it’s a low priority for most law enforcement to organize enough manpower to actually police it.
    If the studios and their conglomerates choose to make an example now and then they are within their rights to do so. Rights of course that are currently held up by the law. Therefore whether I believe it is moral or ethical at the time is irrelevant. The law is the law.
    The majority of us are just lucky that instruments of justice don’t really give a damn until their hand is forced.

  172. Sandokan
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    Wastrel,

    Regardless if it’s a moral or ethical issue or an existential issue etc it is against the law. For now anyway. I would like to see that same speech for all it’s eloquent words hold up in a court of law.
    The only respite piracy and those who commit piracy receive is that it’s a low priority for most law enforcement to organize enough manpower to actually police it.
    If the studios and their conglomerates choose to make an example now and then they are within their rights to do so. Rights of course that are currently held up by the law. Therefore whether I believe it is moral or ethical at the time is irrelevant. The law is the law.
    The majority of us are just lucky that instruments of justice don’t really give a damn until their hand is forced.

    The law of what country? A wait, u must be american…

  173. the goat
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    HERP-DERP,

    Damián Erro,

    This was the most obvious thing that has ever occurred in the story. The only other possibilities were that he tossed ‘em out for the wolves, or they ate them. Giving them to the Others in exchange for being left alone makes much more sense, both in terms of him keeping his daughter-wives in line and disdaining Mance Rayder’s call to arms.

    So I finally caved (after two whole days), and while I’m absolutely glad this won’t continue to occur all season, my spoiler-free review of Ep2 is:
    asdfdofhisuehrtfgiaerhgosergjesdlkfhgaiedhgiadsufhg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I’ll say no more til Sunday

  174. Kroket
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Just a little question. I really loved the Twitter overview last year. Are we going to have something similar this year? Haven’t seen it yet…

  175. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    Kroket,

    Canadian actually, and being part of the commonwealth our laws are nearly identical to Great Britain. That’s despite the fact that piracy is prohibited by International law. Every time you watch a film on VHS or DVD you are made aware if that fact as soon as the disc begins to play…

  176. Mike Johnson
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    Wastrel,

    Kudos on a well-thought-out response; I may not agree 100%, but it is rare to find someone actually able to logically support his or her opinions on online forums without resorting to abuse or logical fallacies.

  177. Wastrel
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    Wastrel,

    Regardless if it’s a moral or ethical issue or an existential issue etc it is against the law. For now anyway. I would like to see that same speech for all it’s eloquent words hold up in a court of law.
    The only respite piracy and those who commit piracy receive is that it’s a low priority for most law enforcement to organize enough manpower to actually police it.
    If the studios and their conglomerates choose to make an example now and then they are within their rights to do so. Rights of course that are currently held up by the law. Therefore whether I believe it is moral or ethical at the time is irrelevant. The law is the law.
    The majority of us are just lucky that instruments of justice don’t really give a damn until their hand is forced.

    I don’t understand. Whether something is against the law is relevent to how likely you are to go to jail for it. What we’re discussing here is whether people should do it. These two things are not connected in any way. Saying “the law is the law” establishes nothing other than that the law is the law, which nobody was denying. If you’re really just saying that it’s illegal, fine, but nobody denied that. So I’m kind of waiting for the second half of the sentence. The bit where you say “it’s illegal”, and we say “so what?” and you say “well, because it’s illegal that means that…” – that what? What conclusion are we meant to draw from the stating of a blindingly obvious fact that nobody here disagrees with?

    Likewise, you say that morality and ethics are irrelevent… well, I thought we were having a discussion about morality and ethics, so clearly right and wrong aren’t irrelevent to that. But OK, maybe you think we’re talking about something else. Relevence is relative – so what you say it’s irrelevent, what exactly are you saying it’s irrelevent to? Or for? It seems as though you’re trying to say that piracy (or ‘smuggling’, I like that term) is something we shouldn’t do, but of course that’s just a discussion about morality again, by definition.

    finally, of course my “speech” wouldn’t “hold up in court”. It’s not a legal “speech”. It makes no reference to the law. It has nothing to do with the law. Asking it to “hold up in court” is like asking pasta, or the bible, or a frown to “hold up in court” – these things have so little to do with court that the whole notion of “holding up in court” is nonsensical when applied to them. All that that argument tells us is that, yes, as we know, file-sharing is illegal. Who cares? And more importantly, why should anyone care?

    Of course, we should care in one respect, because it means that people with sticks might put us in a bad place. That’s a thing some people might bear in mind when deciding whether to share files or not. But I can’t see that it has anything to do with what we say about file sharing. The world would be a very bad place if we all refused to talk about right and wrong just because the bad men have told us that they’ll beat us with sticks if we don’t agree with them. To put it another way: you’ve already got your way in having the people you don’t like sent to jail – can you not even allow the losing side the right to express their views?

    What happened to the American “live free or die”? It seems to have become “live as you’re damn well told to live and don’t talk back either”.

    EDIT: sorry, re that last, thought you were American. The general sentiment remains the same, however.

  178. Wastrel
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    Mike Johnson,

    Thank you.

  179. superkick
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    I watched it… But who cares I will watch again on Sunday to add to the ratings. Better episode than the firt imo…. Minus jon sharpening his valyrian steel sword…. Sigh….

  180. Pepi
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    TBH, I find the whole “disappointment with pirates” somewhat snobbish. I refuse to be a paramount of virtue, while our leaders, who should serve us as a good example are basically a bunch of scoundrels … liars and thieves. I’m not trying to offer excuses, mind it, I don’t even think I need them, but I’m just saying that it’s not downloading, that separates good people from the bad. The law, sure, but not as long as it’s not the same of everyone. That being said … I still buy stuff, because the feeling of reading a real book, or watching a DVD you just purchased, is something entirely else.

  181. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    DavosFTW!,

    It’s actually not smuggling either. People pay for smuggled products, but it’s done away from the eyes of the law. Just saying. :)

  182. Virtus
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    superkick:
    I watched it… But who cares I will watch again on Sunday to add to the ratings.

    Actually, only the ratings are calculated only from the 20,000 or some Nielsen households.

  183. Jenish Kachhadia
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    lego game of thrones: the king in the north
    cool….
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNtdqJav0Z4

  184. Lina
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Lex: I remember the interview where she mentioned being good friends with Peter, and was excited that she would have some scenes with him in Season 2. Considering the Tyrion/Cersei scenes are some of my favourite parts of Book 2, I couldn’t be happier with the way things are going!

    And yes, Lena looks noticeably hotter than last year. Glad it’s not just me! I’m not sure what it is. Better wig? Better make up? No idea, but it’s definitely working.

    Definitely a better wig! I noticed it too. It’s more golden, less blonde, and the waves look neater and more uniform. Season 2 Cersei is 100% more what I always imagined Cersei to be.

  185. HERP-DERP
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    How come we haven’t seen the Greatjon in the Robb scenes of the first 2 eps? Was the actor fired?

  186. Marvin Sanchez
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Wastrel,

    Man, I’ve been reading all your comments and, goddamn, you really blew my mind. I haven’t really thought about the morality of Internet piracy though I do pirate regularly myself. I just didn’t feel like it’s important to think about it. But boy, am I glad I’ve read the discussion here, especially your comments, ’cause now I’ve acquired new perspectives on this matter. :)

  187. The DarkStar
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    Wastrel,

    /agreed

    Whats next?
    Are we going to be committing a crime if we have friends over to watch HBO when they didn’t pay for it? Or if I record a song from my HD Radio and listen to it, is that a crime because I didn’t buy it?

  188. The Kingslayer
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    All I want to know is why do Poland and Holland get HBO and not the UK ??????

  189. Connie
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    I apologize if I sound snobbish, as one person stated, or accusatory. If I’ve struck a nerve with you, then clearly it is something that needs to be examined within your own conscience. I agree with a lot of the points made in response to me; especially about the silliness of regional distribution in a digital world. (A good example being the BBC’s Sherlock and the US being an entirely season behind)

    However my passion stands as someone who’s seen the effects of piracy on the lower levels first hand. My husband’s insurance rates have gone up. Jobs have migrated overseas and across borders to keep ‘costs down’. People have been out of work for months, even years. Can I provide hard numbers? No. All I can give you is a personal perspective from someone who’s seen things change since the advent of torrents and the internet. (God, I sound old!)

    If you intend on buying the product when it’s released; good. That is ultimately the goal – that the people who put a lot of time, effort, and money into the product receive their due. It’s the piracy without profit, those who go ‘eh, saw it, why do I need to pay for it later’ that end up killing the industry. But we have to be ever mindful of the numbers, as the Studio sees it, and be sure that they know we want them to keep on making the show. They can’t count the torrents and rehosted downloads as part of their viewing audience, so those numbers never count for them.

    I apologize again if I offended. I should have given the GoT/ASoIaF audiences more credit for their passion and support. But please; think twice before clicking ‘download’ next time.

    -Constance

  190. ANiceChianti
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    Okay… I never understood this…

    If Craster left his male children out for the Others. What is happening to them? It is implied that they become wights in the books (“Craster’s sons” and all that), but how would that actually work? Is there this army of undead infants walking (crawling) around? I mean, it’s not like anyone would actually raise these kids until they’re old enough to become proper wights. Personally, I don’t see the logistics in this.

  191. The DarkStar
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    ANiceChianti,

    I thought the babies were the ones that became the others. We saw several instances of how wights were made. (Othor, Waymar)

  192. OKENO
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Pepi:
    TBH, I find the whole “disappointment with pirates” somewhat snobbish.

    Agreed. I watched episode 2… so what? I still pay for HBO. I’m still going to watch the episode when it airs Sunday. So what harm have I done? Frankly, if anyone here is “disappointed” in me, I’ll let them figure out what they can do…

  193. Brian
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Brian,

    and it’s not piracy either. they released it early. their mistake – it wasn’t an illegal download. I’m certain most of those people would still tune in to watch the episode when it aired in the proper timeslot.

    i don’t pirate movies, i don’t illegally download music. but that argument doesn’t hold any water with me, in this case.

  194. Drfunk
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Brian,

    There are countless other venues where people could discuss the second episode. That episode in question was not intended to be released early. I thought that Winter took the highroad and got rid of it until Sunday before HBO made an issue out of it. That’s got nothing to do with balls but everything to do with common sense and courtesy.

  195. Liam
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    Since the HDTV signal can be pulled out of the air with just as much clarity as if you paid for it monthly (with a digital rabbit ear antenna), then what’s the difference of you download it on a website?

    If you can pull it out of the air for free, then what’s the big deal?

    And as long as you eventually buy the boxed set on Blu Ray or something… It all balances out.

  196. Ivan Popić
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    ANiceChianti:
    Okay… I never understood this…

    If Craster left his male children out for the Others.What is happening to them?It is implied that they become wights in the books (“Craster’s sons” and all that), but how would that actually work?Is there this army of undead infants walking (crawling) around?I mean, it’s not like anyone would actually raise these kids until they’re old enough to become proper wights.Personally, I don’t see the logistics in this.

    Episode 2 spoilers:

    I always thought Craster is exposing his sons to the Others is more of a “recruitment” then sacrifice and I’m even more convinced after seeing that scene.

  197. Coltaine777
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    I bought the season 1 blueray and I also downloaded ep 2 once I heard it was online…and yes I have HBO but once I heard it was available I couldn’t resist and I feel no guilt…I’m still supporting the show with cold hard cash !!!…

  198. LadySnow84
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    Connie,
    I am a real person, and I’ll download what I like. Quit having such a ridiculous hissy fit! You make it seem like I’m stealing the bread from your table. Give me some facts/research on how he is affected? If you’re in such a financially precarious position I suggest a career change, cause downloading ain’t going away.

  199. andrea
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    Connie,

    I wrote something completely different minutes ago but when I saw your apology I didn´t want to post it, not because it was offensive but because you apologized and the answers you´ve got so far were harsh enough. I don´t assume anything about your personal situation… it´s quite clear that you feel affected for piracy regardless of whether you’re right or not. But you have to know that your claims can go far beyond what you can imagine.
    This is obviously an international (and new) crisis (?) and there is no good way of raising this morality issue if you can´t stop thinking about your own problems. The discussion would go to hell. If you question my morality because you think I am responsible for you to lose your job I too could question yours and make you responsible for the problems that other countries workers have.
    Imagine this: “Is there any website where I can go to claim for those big companies that takes away my natural resources instead of processing them here and provide work for my people?” It will be madness. Complaints and resentments of all kind and color would start to arise.
    To this kind of dangerous discussions any debate about the morality of piracy will reduce I think.

  200. Wastrel
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    Connie,

    Thank you for the even-tempered and considered response. And you do have my sympathies if you’re facing hard times. However, again I’d like to raise a few caveats:

    - even if smuggling has gone up as profits for the companies have gone down, that doesn’t mean that the first caused the second. And my understanding, indeed, was that profits have actually been going up, and certainly that sales have gone up. So it’s unfair to blame cutbacks made by the executives on smuggling – this is an easy scapegoat, to be sure, but probably not actually causally related to anything

    - jobs going overseas is not a problem that’s unique to the creative industries, and so it’s hard to believe that the reasons for it are unique to the creative industries either. I don’t buy this idea that companies were sitting around going “i think we’re making a good level of profit, let’s keep on employing expensive americans”, until suddenly they realised “hey, we’re losing money to Them Dastardly Pirates – we’d better maintain our profit margins by employing cheap foreigners instead!”. No, I think that they’ve been employing cheaper workers, and fewer workers, at as fast a rate as possible – and that if falling profits due to piracy could simply be made up by cutting costs, that would indicate that costs could have been cut earlier, in which case I think they would have cut costs earlier. They aren’t interested in keeping profits at a set level, they just want to maximise profits – and if pirates weren’t around, it’d still increase their profits to ship jobs overseas, so they would still do it

    - jobs going overseas is a problem for many families in many countries. The government doesn’t usually interfere to stop it (excepting a few high-profile symbolic cases), and we’re not generally considered to have any duty to try to stop it as individuals, so I don’t see that that duty applies in the creative industries either. What’s more, the people losing jobs aren’t just those who work in creative industries – they’re also your customers. So, first off, maybe people aren’t reducing the amount they pay you due to piracy, maybe they’re doing it because THEIR jobs have been shipped overseas as well, and they don’t have the money to buy your product anymore. And, second, when you tell someone to give you their money because you will be poorer, you should bear in mind that the obvious concomitant of this is that if they DO give you their money, THEY will be poorer instead. And they’re not necessarily doing any better in this economy than you are.

    - finally, let’s be clear about this: business is BOOMING. HBO are gaining more and more subscribers, and making more and more money from them. Time Warner as a whole, for instance, increased revenues by 10% in the second quarter of 2011 alone – I don’t know what happened in Q1 last year, but in Q4 2010 revenues increased by 8%. TW’s yearly revenues for 2010 rose by 6%, which was the highest rise in six years. Profits are growing even faster – in 2010, TW’s profits rose by a staggering SEVENTEEN PERCENT, the fastest in its history. And HBO is a huge part of that. Revenues for TW’s networks division rose 9% in Q2 2011; HBO makes up 25% of TW’s profits; subscription revenue rose 9% in 2010.
    After Q2, HBO was projected to collect $4,000,000,000 in subscriptions in 2011 as a whole. $4bn. With profits of… well, I can’t find a recent figure. But in 2009, in a bad time for HBO, they were making $1.3bn per year. Given the continual profit increases since them… well, TW’s TV unit as whole saw their profits INCREASE by TWENTY-TWO percent in 2010 alone. I think it’s reasonable to expect that there were further massive profit increases in 2011 and early 2012, in line with those in other departments and the company as a whole.
    So, I don’t know EXACTLY what digit should go between the “$” and the “bn” for HBO’s profits at the moment, but they’re very, very big, and they’re growing very, very fast, so excuse me if I have a LITTLE trouble feeling their pain over the piracy issue right now.

    This suggests to me that if HBO are screwing your husband over, it’s not because they’re running out of money because of Them Dastardly Smugglers, it’s because they just feel like screwing him over.

  201. andrea
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    Wastrel,
    Very eloquent. Thanks, I feel very eased when someone writes in English things that would cost me hours of suffering.

  202. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    Brian:
    Brian,

    and it’s not piracy either. they released it early. their mistake – it wasn’t an illegal download. I’m certain most of those people would still tune in to watch the episode when it aired in the proper timeslot.

    i don’t pirate movies, i don’t illegally download music. but that argument doesn’t hold any water with me, in this case.

    Watching it on HBOGo where it was available isn’t piracy, but downloading an illegal version that somebody obtained from HBOGo is.

    But like others pointed out, that doesn’t necessarily make it “wrong” if you do have an HBO subscription or fully intend to support them in some way like buying the DVD’s eventually.

  203. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Wastrel,

    If downloading copyrighted media from the internet is morally and ethically ambiguous (which is a matter that has firmly placed me on the fence ) would you agree that the people who actually pirate said media are in fact committing a crime? If I were to go into a movie theatre with a video camera and record a film, or if I operated a vast network of video piracy in Singapore for example, should I be subject to criminal prosecution? If I ran a bit torrent site like piratebay.org should I be charged?
    In my opinion if you get caught with stolen property one has to consider that it has been pilfered from somebody else. In essence you are holding stolen goods. Now before everyone on this board flames me do you believe that some distinction could be made that the original source of the pirated item or its first facsimile should be considered stolen property and therefore any subsequent downloads of the original source is not illegal? Perhaps this is where the clarification should be made?
    The way I feel about is this: I have downloaded episodes and films online before, more so episodes because I pay for cable television and when I miss my favourite show and it’s not in the on demand or TVR cue I rationalise that I essentially paid for it anyway. But it’s because I put money towards it kind of gives me vindication. But I know people who don’t have cable or a television for that matter, who download movies, tv shows and music without contributing any of their funds for entertainment. This is what gets me, I work hard and save up my money to buy the Games of Thrones season 1 blu-ray box set and Johnny down the street is allowed to watch it for free. That’s my beef with piracy. Call me a jerk if you will because it seems anyone who has an objection to this is clearly shouted down whenever this discussion occurs but whether we like it or not that culture of entitlement does exist.
    Some people work for that entitlement and some people don’t. It’s what makes piracy so ambiguous because how can we determine who are showing financial “contrition’ :-) after the fact and who are taking advantage? There has to be a regulated system methinks. I suppose Torrent sites are an attempt towards that.

  204. Damián Erro
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    funny how this turn to be a piracy thread

  205. Nigel Bradley
    Posted April 5, 2012 at 12:52 am | Permalink

    Here’s my two cents on the whole “downloading is wrong” thing:

    Joss Weadon, in his spare time, made a little movie called Dr. Horrible’s Sing-a-long Blog. He then proceeded to give this movie away, online, for free. Anyone who wanted to watch it for free, could do so.

    Even though the movie was available, completely for free, people still paid to have legal copies of it downloaded through iTunes, the soundtrack went to #1 on iTunes, and when it was released on DVD, it made millions (Joss created it with a budget of only $200,000). The DVD is still doing well on Amazon and Netflix, several years after its release.

    Why did people support something by buying it, when it was given away for free? Because they liked it.

    There’s a lesson there…

  206. The DarkStar
    Posted April 5, 2012 at 2:25 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: I know people who don’t have cable or a television for that matter, who download movies, tv shows and music without contributing any of their funds for entertainment. This is what gets me, I work hard and save up my money to buy the Games of Thrones season 1 blu-ray box set and Johnny down the street is allowed to watch it for free. That’s my beef with piracy.

    Very likely that person who isn’t contributing their money wouldn’t be doing so anyway even if file sharing didn’t exist (cheap people). But those people, if they like the show/movie/music, are contributing on twitter, on message boards, word of mouth, building buzz and fans for the show which if they only influence 1 Person to subscribe to HBO or buy the DVD’s, or 1 single T-shirt they have made HBO $, and their free viewing was a net gain for HBO.

    Nigel Bradley: Joss Weadon, in his spare time, made a little movie called Dr. Horrible’s Sing-a-long Blog. He then proceeded to give this movie away, online, for free. Anyone who wanted to watch it for free, could do so.

    Even though the movie was available, completely for free, people still paid to have legal copies of it downloaded through iTunes, the soundtrack went to #1 on iTunes, and when it was released on DVD, it made millions (Joss created it with a budget of only $200,000). The DVD is still doing well on Amazon and Netflix, several years after its release.

    Why did people support something by buying it, when it was given away for free? Because they liked it.

    There’s a lesson there…

    And to take this to music, as I nearly have not paid for digital music the last few years (Sans April Smith, and the Asteroid Galaxy Tour), I’m all for bands putting out their music for free and only making $ on tours and merchandise.
    PEACE RECORD COMPANIES. Let all the $$$ go directly to the musicians.

  207. dunne10
    Posted April 5, 2012 at 4:12 am | Permalink

    a bit late in the day (after being first in the now deleted post about the early release, sniff), but in response to connie (apology notwithstanding) and similar, i would just like to say that i subscribe to HBO (Asia), so that’s my debt to HBO already paid.

    But at the same time, I live in a country with very strict censorship, and the HBO version we get is roughly rated PG13 ie you hardly see Ros at all, if ever (suffice to say i watched the entire season 1 “online”). Not that I relish seeing Ms Bianco in the buff, but the point is, some of my decisions are taken out of my hands.

    The recent GoT Season 1 original dvds were also released rated PG-13. Would anyone here really pay good money for a chopped-up versi0n of the show?

    piracy is one thing, but when you are denied a choice, what real alternative is there?

  208. Grujah
    Posted April 5, 2012 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Neil Gaiman pretty nicely explains how piracy affects authors:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qkyt1wXNlI

  209. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 5, 2012 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    I’d like to thank both Wastrel and Joshua Taylor for this nice discussion :)

  210. andrea
    Posted April 5, 2012 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    The DarkStar,

    I think Louie CK did the same with his show and people did paid. I read it somewhere.

  211. The DarkStar
    Posted April 5, 2012 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Grujah,

    That was awesome!

    andrea,

    I paid for it. It was a great show for only $5

  212. andrea
    Posted April 5, 2012 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    The DarkStar,

    “Was”? :( I love that show, I´d pay gladly.

  213. Dire Wolf
    Posted April 9, 2012 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    Geez, some of you need to crawl back to your Wetness….

    What’s with all the hurrahs & deity thankings??? Some of us have jobs / schedules and real responsibilities / emergencies, so if one can watch GoT a couple of days early when it’s more realistically convenient, then more power to them.

  214. Mark Glasgow
    Posted April 13, 2012 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    That early release did effect the number DRASTICALLY, And if we want the Fourth installment from the book then it’s best to get the numbers up and watch it as and when it comes on properly lol. I for one will not be watching any more early realease’s. Not saying that i won’t download it, As the first season took nearly a year to be released pmsfl, i won’t be waiting hahaha

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