GRRM responds to renewal, adds details
By Hear Me Roar on in News.

The news caught up with George while he was still in the London. He responded on his Not A Blog, commenting on the freshly ordered third season:

Like the first two seasons, it will be ten episodes long. This one will cover (roughly) the first half or thereabouts of A STORM OF SWORDS, the third novel in the series.

I’ll be writing the seventh episode, with the working title “Autumn Storms.”

Hear Me Roar: I may be wrong, but I believe that the breakdown and writing of the third season is further along at this moment than season two was a year ago.

UPDATE: Some more pertinent quotes from David and Dan that fit the discussion and the topic of this post really well have surfaced. First, this one from a good interview posted on Westeros.org:

I don’t think anyone else asks viewers to process so many storylines and characters. And also one thing to keep in mind is that there are characters in the second book who don’t appear this season, but are coming in later. It’s just about so many new characters introduced in the second season, so we saved some for the next season. They aren’t being omitted, they’re just being delayed.

Second, the amazing Mo Ryan already has some answers from Dan Weiss that are on everyone’s mind (make sure to read the whole piece, and mind that there is a full interview coming next week after episode three):

I would say that, going forward, 10-episode seasons are really all that are possible, given our 12-month [production] cycle,” Weiss said. “For this show specifically, it’s really all we can do to do 10 of them in a year. I would say not to expect more than 10 a season any time in the near future … We had always planned on a 10-episode season [for the show's third year].

We’ve always said that we see the show as an adaptation of George’s series, not this book or that book. It’s definitely true that ‘A Storm of Swords’ is too big to even come close to fitting in one season. [...] Book 3 is definitely too much for a 10-episode season, so we’re taking the long view of the series of the whole, and trying to do as much justice as possible to George’s overall epic story and be as true to the spirit as we can, while keeping it an exciting and viable and vivid as a television show that stands on its own two legs.

A season of television needs to feel like a season of television. We have so many storylines to juggle, and they all need to ideally have a sense of a beginning, middle and end over the course of a season. Each character needs to feel like they’re traveling a specific road in the course of a season, and coming out as a different person than they went in. It’s never going to be about taking a book and ripping it in half — ‘At page 673, this is the place where [the season] ends.’ It comes down to case-by-case [decisions] with each story and how best to serve each character’s story going forward.


140 Comments

  1. lasadorian
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:09 am | Permalink

    autumn storms could be so many things :P kinda vague

  2. Arthur
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:09 am | Permalink

    Awesome, I still wonder what the budget is. Is it the same as season 2, more or less?

  3. Ashaïese
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:15 am | Permalink

    What’s happening between a third and a half of ASOS ? I need to reread again…

  4. Steelyuhas
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:16 am | Permalink

    Arthur,

    If I recall, season 2 was a 15% bump in budget. I’d assume season 3 gets a small bump.

  5. Lea
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:17 am | Permalink

    Season 2 isn’t even over, yet I’m so excited to see season 3 now! Thankful that GRRM has provided clarity around the # of episodes for season 3, and that ASOS is going to spill over to season 4.

  6. Pim
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:20 am | Permalink

    Okay, so:
    ASoS (1/2) = 2013
    ASoS (2/2) = 2014
    AFfC = 2015
    ADwD = 2016

    GRRM better hurry before HBO has to wait for few years before the 6th and 7th book are ready ;).

  7. HERP-DERP
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:24 am | Permalink

    lasadorian,

    It’s most likely referring to the Arya storyline in aSoS.. if you know what I am referring to :)

  8. Juju Budkeson
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:26 am | Permalink

    BTW: Especially the child actors will be rather old when Season 5 airs… If it comes to that.

  9. Kate
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:28 am | Permalink

    Autumn Storms makes me think of rains. The rains of Castamere, to be exact.

    That would fit with a season end with Joffrey’s death.

  10. Fat Walda
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:29 am | Permalink

    Here are the “autumn storms” quotes I found in ASOS:

    Petyr Baelish gave a shrug. “Tides and brides wait on no man, my lord. Once the autumn storms begin the voyage will be much more hazardous. Drowning would definitely diminish my charms as a bridegroom.” (chapter 19/Tyrion III)

    “What is the weather like?” he asked, and “Have the autumn storms begun yet? Do ships still sail the narrow sea?” (chapter 25/Davos III)

    So the episode might have something to do with a sea voyage, or…

    Jojen Reed turned his head slowly, listening to music only he could hear. “We need to shelter here. There’s a storm coming. A bad one.”
    Bran looked up at the sky. It had been a beautiful crisp clear autumn day, sunny and almost warm, but there were dark clouds off to the west now, that was true, and the wind seemed to be picking up. “There’s no roof on the inn and only the two walls,” he pointed out. “We should go out to the holdfast.”
    (chapter 40/Bran III)

    This is the chapter where Bran & co. hole up in Queenscrown as Jon and the wildlings make camp in the village. My guess is that this episode will feature Jon’s escape from the wildlings.

  11. Jenny
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:36 am | Permalink

    I think it is not bad the child actors ageing. Up til now everything seems to happen in weeks as opposed to months as things go on in the Books.

  12. DavosFTW!
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:37 am | Permalink

    let’s hope its an episode made up entirely of Davos, sailing a boat, smuggling things and being awesome.

  13. Jordan Healey
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:38 am | Permalink

    Pretty sure Autumn Storms means Autumn Storms. There’s a fuck load of rain that drowns the Riverlands.

    But yes, primarily witnessed in Arya’s Storyline.

  14. Siniša Grimjaur Šiško
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:59 am | Permalink

    Red is the color of autumn, and there’s a little something in the book that begins with Red. Though it could be a bit too early, S02.E07 is approximately 1/3 of the 3/4th season combined. But then again, Dan & David are shuffling 2nd, 3rd & 4th book quite a bit. They already said some events from ASoS will be in the S02, so, certain Red event could be pulled ahead a bit…

  15. Sarah
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 4:05 am | Permalink

    Fat Walda,

    I like that idea but I also like

    Kate:
    Autumn Storms makes me think of rains. The rains of Castamere, to be exact.

    That would fit with a season end with Joffrey’s death.

    Either way the next series is going to be amazingly sad if a certain event is included in that season. I hope not as it will make me a little depressed leave it to the fourth one and give us a little bit more time with our/my favorite character

  16. Dan
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 4:19 am | Permalink

    Yep, definietely Red Wedding as a season finale suits for me! It’s gonna be absolutely heartbreaking for those viewers that haven’t read the book tho…

  17. negar
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 4:23 am | Permalink

    I think I love the wait and little pieces of information better that the actual episodes .waiting for trailers , breaking them down , oh and the casting news!
    when do they usually start announcing the castings ? before season 2 ends? when do they start filming usually ?

  18. Fat Walda
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 4:27 am | Permalink

    I’m kind of hoping the first episode of season 4 ends with the Red Wedding. It would be such a HOLY FUCK moment, like Bran being shoved out of the tower. It seems like too huge of an event to put in the middle of a season. Besides, it’s chapter 51 out of 81. Unless they cut out Riverrun and all of Robb’s battles, he has too much to do to die in episode 7 of a 20 part adaptation of the book.

  19. Nick Larter
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 4:27 am | Permalink

    The bit around Queenscrown, where Jon and Bran’s stories almost intersect is one of my favourite parts of ASOS, so if GRRM is writing that, that would be great! If my memory serves RW is a little bit more that half way through, so that fits for a finale. One can imagine that they could have asked GRRM to write that ep and he might well have said ‘no.’ At the Eastercon he told us that that was the very last bit of ASOS he wrote as he found it so hard to do, so he maybe didn’t want to go there again!

  20. TWEEDIE
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 4:33 am | Permalink

    Heartbreaking or not it will make television history if it’s done right, which I’ve no doubt it will be, going be what I’ve seen so far. But there are other scenes in ASOS equally as mindblowing and shocking in their own way as that one.

  21. Phil Norris
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 4:36 am | Permalink

    I agree with Kate and think Autumn Storms relate to the song Rains Of Castamere, ep7 doesn’t have to actually be the event but the lead up to it. Read over on The Wertzone that the producers have already hinted S3 will end with the RW.

  22. Dan
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 4:55 am | Permalink

    @Phil Norris

    Can you give us the source of this information? About RW as 3rd season finale?

  23. Anvil
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 5:10 am | Permalink

    Dan:
    @Phil Norris

    Can you give us the source of this information? About RW as 3rd season finale?

    I think Wertzones’s Adam Whitehead is just guessing about the finale. He didn’t state a source either. Ending the season on this particular event would be a downer and would likely alienate a lot of viewers in the hiatus between the seasons. Maybe have it in ep. 8 or so, because those big events in the ninth episode of each season are getting a bit predictable. ;)

  24. Pause
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 5:16 am | Permalink

    Pim:
    Okay, so:
    ASoS (1/2) = 2013
    ASoS (2/2) = 2014
    AFfC = 2015
    ADwD = 2016

    GRRM better hurry before HBO has to wait for few years before the 6th and 7th book are ready ;).

    I wouldn’t bet on that, at least I don’t think they will split up characters like in in Books 4+5

  25. Julyan
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 5:17 am | Permalink

    I doubt D&D would be so mean as to give RW for George to write. He has said numerous times that that scene was extremely difficult for him to write so making him do it again would be mean. I’m putting my money on the other wedding scene in the third book.

  26. Conor
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    Man, I’m so excited for all the casting news, etc… to start.

    The next two years are going to be fantastic, especially for non readers. SO much happens in aSoS, even after the you know what.

  27. Tywin's Bastard
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 5:46 am | Permalink

    Pause,

    They will mix AFFC and ADWD but the end result will still be as he wrote, as they will likely only take up 2 seasons despite the length of ADWD. Lots of great things there that might work better in a book than on a TV show.

  28. Phil Norris
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 5:49 am | Permalink

    Dan,

    All I know is what I’ve read on Adam’s site. Usually he has good sources, and he interviewed GRRM at Eastercon this past weekend.

  29. DavosFTW!
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    They shouldn’t end the season with the Red Wedding because its been done before. I didn’t actually see it, but I read about it somewhere. Some old show did it (dynasty) and people were really disappointed, it was that show’s jump the shark (actually that is where I read about this, in an article about shows that jumped the shark). Having it as a finale would be doing something others have done.

    I say first ep of season 4.

  30. StarkyZG
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 5:53 am | Permalink

    Pim,

    No, this is definitely not how they’re doing it. D&D have said that they won’t be splitting the seasons the same way as the books are split. Besides, AFFC overlaps with both ASOS (Greyjoy and Martell storylines) and ADWD. My guess is that ASOS, AFFC and ADWD will together make, say, 4-5 seasons. The further the series goes the more they are likely to deviate from the books.

  31. Chris77
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 5:53 am | Permalink

    D&D on the other hand were so eager to finally get to the RW that I would bet that they will write it.

  32. ryra
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    I’m happy he clarifies that ASoS will be split in 2.. but I’m also a bit sad because now I know I have to wait 2 years to see what is – in my opinion- the best part of that book.
    No, I’m not talking about the RW, which is obviously an important moment and a scene that every fan of this novels can’t wait to see on screen . I’m talking about Arya and the Hound’s journey (especially what happened after the RW part)

  33. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 6:04 am | Permalink

    Still 14 months ’till S3 finale…I think all this talk about the RW will be too spoilerish for the non-readers.

    I’d love for it to be the finale, but I Think would be better if they announce beforehand that it won’t, so people will talk less about it, and therefore spoil it less for the non-readers

  34. OldRod
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    I am currently re-reading ASoS and according to my Kindle app, I am 50% through.

    I just finished the two chapters with Bran/Jon at the Queenscrown and it was storming violently, along with the fighting, etc. Arya just went through the Hound attacking her and Beric’s men and Dany is blooding her Unsullied. Lots of fighting all around. I can easily see that being referred to as Storms of Autumn.

  35. Wastrel
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 6:36 am | Permalink

    ryra,

    Yep. The last scene between those characters was my favourite in the books. But I’m pretty sure they’re going to mess it up.

  36. ryra
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    Wastrel,

    Oh, don’t say that^^
    We have to be positive (actually I think they’ re doing pretty well with Arya story-arc, so… let’s hope they will continue this way)

  37. Chrysee
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    Guys, clearly Autumn Storm is Ros’s real name. She’s King Robert’s bastard :P

  38. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    Chrysee:
    Guys, clearly Autumn Storm is Ros’s real name. She’s King Robert’s bastard :P

    LOL, good one.

  39. Josh
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Pim:
    Okay, so:
    ASoS (1/2) = 2013
    ASoS (2/2) = 2014
    AFfC = 2015
    ADwD = 2016

    GRRM better hurry before HBO has to wait for few years before the 6th and 7th book are ready ;).

    AFFC will not have it’s own season..It will be combined with ADWD…Altogether I can see it being a season and half maybe? I don’t know….So little actually happens in AFFC

  40. Yhamm
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    when will they start filming 2 seasons at same time? kids are growing fast

  41. Drfunk
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    I don’t think four seasons would be enough to cover everything till the end of dance of dragons (at the pace of ten per season). D&D said they’re adapting the entire series, so a lot of overlaps will occur. Feast+Dance could easily be 30 episodes on its own, so hopefully Martin pumps out book 6 before 2017 and book 7 before 2018. Meaning he’d need 6 done by next year!

  42. HugeFloppyGut
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    Anvil: I think Wertzones’s Adam Whitehead is just guessing about the finale. He didn’t state a source either. Ending the season on this particular event would be a downer and would likely alienate a lot of viewers in the hiatus between the seasons. Maybe have it in ep. 8 or so, because those big events in the ninth episode of each season are getting a bit predictable. ;)

    Boardwalk Empire killed off a Huge character in its season 2 finale and it alienated me..I’m not gonna watch Empire season 3 b/c of it

  43. Matthew
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    There’s no way you could get 30 episodes out of those two books. Unless you have entire episodes dedicated to Cersei giving a 60 minute monologue about her random thoughts and irrelevant/insignificant (to TV viwers) world events. What in the world is Dany going to do for 30 episodes or Jon Snow? By the end Brienne will have been wandering the Riverlands aimlessly for nearly 5 years. It would be 3 of the most boring seasons of TV ever. Even twenty episodes would be pushing it, 15 is probably the best number, and cutting it to the bone, which they probably won’t do, it get down to 10 episodes with a few strategically moved scenes into the previous and following seasons. Practically nothing happens in AFFC and ADWD has some stuff that could be cut too.

    In fact I’d guess the Season three ends up covering more like 2/3 of SoS, season 4 covering the latter third and lots of AFFC/ADWD, season 5 covering the rest of AFFC/ADwD, and season 6-7, and maybe 8, catching up to the remainder of the novels (if they get written, I predict 3 novels to finish the series), in the event the show makes it that far.

  44. Vanderhook
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    I see the future seasons playing out like this:

    Rest of Season 2: Obviously, the rest of CoK with some early elements of SoS (If I recall correctly, some of SoS occured before the end of CoK)

    Season 3: Roughly half to 2/3 of SoS (not exactly chronological)

    Season 4: Rest of SoS with the Iron Islands and Dorne scenes from FFC

    Season 5: FFC/ADWD

    Season 6: FFC/ADWD wrapping up with maybe some WoW thrown in

    I’m unsure about FFC/ADWD taking up two entire seasons. Those two books have a lot of “world building”: we go into detail about geographic areas, minor backstories and the culture and history of westeros/essos. While this stuff is great on the page and really immersive, a lot of will translate differently onto the screen via cinematography, easter eggs, s/exposition scenes etc.. or can just be omitted entirely.

  45. jkb
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    DavosFTW!:
    They shouldn’t end the season with the Red Wedding because its been done before. I didn’t actually see it, but I read about it somewhere. Some old show did it (dynasty) and people were really disappointed, it was that show’s jump the shark (actually that is where I read about this, in an article about shows that jumped the shark). Having it as a finale would be doing something others have done.

    I say first ep of season 4.

    yhyhyh, but that was 80s, people were watching macguyver and the a-team back then ;p do you remember BA Barackus getting his head chopped off? coz i sure dont ;p

    still, RW in S4 opener is probably a better option.

  46. Tywin's Bastard
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    I always get the feeling that the “nothing happens” fans view the book series in a vastly different way than I do. For me it’s always been about the characters, not about the big events (like LotR).

  47. Shinyteapot
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    Matthew: In fact I’d guess the Season three ends up covering more like 2/3 of SoS, season 4 covering the latter third and lots of AFFC/ADWD, season 5 covering the rest of AFFC/ADwD, and season 6-7, and maybe 8, catching up to the remainder of the novels (if they get written, I predict 3 novels to finish the series), in the event the show makes it that far.

    That’s pretty much what I think too, depending on how things are trimmed and moved around a big event or two that will presumably happen near the start of TWOW (no guarantee!) may end up at the end of series 5 too.

    It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the show overtakes the novels, but I think they’ll deal with that problem if they get to it. GRRM may for example let D&D read manuscripts before they are published, or simply tell them the important points to hit.

  48. FrootLoop311
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    I think it was @ the panel at Comic-con that D&D said they were splitting ASOS into two seasons, and filming seasons 3 and 4 back to back (which is why they’re set to start filming earlier this year). They also said the RW would be toward the end of season 4 because if they didn’t get renewed beyond that it would be a could place to end, or something to that effect.

  49. Red Snapper
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    I’m imagining the three last episodes of S3 wedding-themed.
    E8 – Golden Wedding – Sansa/Tyrion
    E9 – Red Wedding
    E10 – Purple Wedding – Joff’s death will be a welcome relief after E9; it could also include stuff like Sansa sailing away with Littlefinger and Arya going off to her wacky adventures with the hound.. and maybe ‘Dracarys!’ as well..

  50. Bologna
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    I think Autumn Rains refer to the rainstorm that is reflected in chapters of many characters in ASOS:

    – Jon Escapes Wildlings
    - Bran almost meets him in warg form
    - Rob travels to RW and presents his Will to the supporters
    -Arya is kidnapped by the Hound

    so far the main events of the seasons happen in epp 9 (Beheading of Edd in season 1 and Blackwater battle in season 2), the last epp – 10 – is used to show the aftermarth of this “main event” and to set up the stories for next season

    I am almost sure the showrunners will not change this succesfull forumula:
    RW is going to be epp 9 of season 3, while the last epp may have deah of Igritt as an emotional ending (a la birth of Dragons)

    I am less ure about season 4 but I think they can not delay Joffrey thing till epp 9, so it will probably happen earlier , and the big event of epp 9 will be either Tyrions honor battle or his escape (last episode can show him drunk/sailing to essos) again epp 9 or 10 of season 4 will have Jons election.

    I also suspect they will incorporate relatively subtantial chunk from AFFC into season 4 (again not to leave certain characters/locations idle)

  51. Horry
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Shinyteapot: It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the show overtakes the novels, but I think they’ll deal with that problem if they get to it. GRRM may for example let D&D read manuscripts before they are published, or simply tell them the important points to hit.

    At least D&D can finish the books whenever GRRM meets his maker….. (just like Jordan/Sanderson)

  52. Josh Parker
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    I think anyone expecting the third season not to end with the Red Wedding are setting themselves up for disappointment. Where else would you end the season, after all? I think we can count on THAT event coming in episode 9, and episode 10 will be the beginning of the fallout, and will end with the reveal of the UnCat.

    Season Four will likely begin with Sansa’s arrival at Littlefinger’s home and will focus heavily on what happens to Arya post-RW, what happens to Jon after escaping the wildlings, Joffrey’s wedding and subsequent death, Tyrion’s trial, murder of Shae and Tywin, and escape, Dany’s entire Meereenese adventure, and the entirety of the Iron Islands chapters from AFFC, along with perhaps the Dorne chapters, at least the beginning of them.

    Season Five will mix the beginnings of Feast and Dance together, covering about half of each book (maybe more, in the case of Feast, since there’s so much that could be pushed up into Season Four, and other stuff which can be cut or condensed).

    So assuming this is 2015 by the time we get to Season Five (not unreasonable), that give GRRM plenty of time to get TWoW published, assuming he really doesn’t run into another huge blockage, like he says he doesn’t expect to.

  53. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    I have updated the post, heads up!

  54. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    D

    Bologna,

    SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  55. Vanderhook
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    I don’t think we have to worry too much about the show catching up with the books.

    I have the feeling that Winds of Winter will be released by the time the series gets to that point. In fact, I imagine it’d be around the same time — imagine the marketing potential!

    I also think (and hope) D&D would respect GRRM and not go ahead and forge ahead regardless of GRRM’s vision. Maybe they’ll just take a break for awhile, and pick up the rest of the series later.. maybe even as movies? Maybe just end the series altogether (that would kind of suck though). Or, my favorite idea: do a Robert’s Rebellion prequel season or some of the Dunk and Egg stories.

  56. Hollyoak
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Did anyone notice that HBO OnDemand has a featurette called the Religions of Westeros?

    It shows GRRM talking about the religions and a few scenes from upcoming epispodes. I turned it off after a few minutes because I am a member of BWP and didn’t want to be spoiled with new scenes out of context. One of the scenes was:

    Myrcella being shipped off to…um, I don’t remember where she goes–off to marry somebody—and it shows her in a boat crying. I just thought, Yay for her! I forget the actresses’s name, but she gets to act! She must have been happy with that because she hasn’t had that many lines.

  57. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Hear me Roar please edit Bologna’s post :S

    Edit: Thanks!

  58. Jaime Lannister
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    S4/5 will depend on the Boltons, and therein lies the biggest problem the post-S3 GoT series will face. Major spoilers ahead: Joff is dead by then, and the game of thrones has changed completely — we have Roose and Ramsay as our resident sociopaths after Walder Frey disappears into obscurity, and the focus shifts to a Bolton-controlled north.

    Cutting Ramsay was the biggest mistake Dave and Dan have made. AFFC alone would spell the end of GoT (good book, but it just won’t translate well onto TV with no more meat on its bones), but ADWD reintroduced us to that psychotic asshole responsible for trashing Winterfell and causing Prince Theon’s downfall. It’s a big plot point, and Ramsay is one of the two MAJOR antagonists for pretty much… everyone who’s not on his side.

    That’s a very dodgy ripple effect they’re risking here. I assumed they, as book readers, would have roped Ramsay in already to seed his utterly colossal role later on.

  59. TJeff
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    I think the sixth book TWoW will published in 2015 or 2016. It is the seventh book, even a possible eighth book makes me worry.

  60. Jack Slap
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    Do you think its possible that George will give D&D some of his draft chapters for WoW before it is published so they can show some of it if needed if the show catches the books..?

  61. Tytos Blackwood
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    QUICK someone check page 673 it could be important!

  62. Knurk
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Tywin’s Bastard:
    I always get the feeling that the “nothing happens” fans view the book series in a vastly different way than I do. For me it’s always been about the characters, not about the big events (like LotR).

    hell, for me it’s been about the characters too. Sadly, most of the characters were really boring and annoying, especially in Dance (just my opinion of course).

  63. Shinyteapot
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Hollyoak,

    Is she crying? It’s mentioned later on, when Arianne starts plotting, that Tommen cried but Myrcella didn’t- Arianne’s pet kingsguard uses the flimsiest of excuses to convince himself he’s helping for the right reasons. Of course if he’s deliberately remembering wrong that could be even more telling.

  64. Chris
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Why would anyone ever just rip a book in half at page 673? *whistles the Rains of Castamere*

  65. Arthur
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    You know…

    D&D casting news for me last year was a really fun time. After season 2, we all get to look forward seeing what characters make the TV cut and who gets casted to play them.

    I can’t wait to find out. I’m sure there will be many happy/angry fans on this site to argue with and about who made the cut and who got casted.

    Will be a really fun time on this site to be a fan…

  66. Dale Rippke
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    For the people worried about possible viewer reaction to RW, my suggestion is to look at the fallout to the finale of Spartacus Vengeance (trying to stay vague, but there are interesting parallels). If that show loses its viewership because of what they did, then we will have something to judge it against. My belief is that if it feels like the story has to go there, then I don’t think people will stop watching just because it does.

  67. Little Littlefinger
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    One off-topic question here. Does anyone know if the Boltons are casted in season 2 or will they be casted in season 3. I am nervous they might not make the cut :( .

  68. Mormegil
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Little Littlefinger: One off-topic question here. Does anyone know if the Bolton are casted in season 2 or will they be casted in season 3. I am nervous they might not make the cut :( .

    Roose Bolton is in Season 2, Ramsay Snow/Bolton is not but will probably turn up in Season 3.

  69. Gez
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    HugeFloppyGut,

    I agree that RW shouldnt happen as a final episode. However, I think BE had to logically kill off that certain character based on that characters story arc. I dont see any reason to not watch Season 3.

  70. Josh Parker
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    Jaime Lannister,

    I don’t think Ramsey’s been cut. I think he’s being pushed to the third season, like the Reeds. Everything we’ve been given about this season suggests that Theon’s story will be put on pause with him having taken control of Winterfell and possibly (this is mostly speculation) facing insurrection from his crew/his crew defecting to Yara. And THEN learning that the Bastard of Bolton is on the march.

    This makes sense, because otherwise, Theon’s out of action for an entire two seasons. If they push the entire Reek storyline to seasons 3 and 4, that gives him something to do. Maybe they can even use that storyline to introduce the Walders, delve a little deeper into the Boltons and perhaps even the Manderlys.

  71. SeVv
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    Dale Rippke,

    but in Spartacus they killed all the funny/interesting characters Ashur, Oennimaeus, Lucretia , whereas Game of Thrones still has alot to offer in that category even after the Red Wedding

  72. Little Littlefinger
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    Josh Parker,

    That seems a good way to introduce these characters. Its crazy to think that some of the most important characters aren’t even in the TV story yet.

  73. Suzaku
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    “It’s just about so many new characters introduced in the second season, so we saved some for the next season. They aren’t being omitted, they’re just being delayed.”

    That’s just what I’d been predicting.

    In terms of casting, avoiding scheduling conflicts, and making sure key cast members and their characters remain relevant, there needs to be some shifting around of storylines.

    Jaime’s A Storm of Swords storyline is getting bumped up into Season 2 in order to counteract the fact that he doesn’t really appear in A Clash of Kings at all.

    They can easily push the casting / introducing / elaborating of the Reeds, the Walders, Reek, Ramsay, and Vargo Hoat into Season 3 without adversely affecting the overall story. In fact, I think it would be better for the show in the long-term.

    Most notably, Theon’s ongoing storyline can be extended into Season 3, where they’ll have more time to explore his relationship with Reek and Ramsay, rather than having them completely disappear for an extended period of time right after the events in A Clash of Kings. Do keep in mind that those characters had virtually no physical presence in A Storm of Swords and A Feast for Crows, only appearing in references to events occuring off-page.

    Hoat and his Brave Companions are minor enough in A Clash of Kings that they can be handled with extras (wearing helmets and hoods when needed), if they need to appear at all. Hoat can easily be treated as a threatening but ultimately unseen presence.

    The Reeds are important, but can be introduced in other ways at no detriment to the plot. The Walders are fairly minor in the grand scheme of things, and can likewise be introduced in other ways, if they need to be introduced at all.

    And that’s only assuming that none of them have been cast yet, which may not be the case. We might well see them show up in the latter half of the season as minor guest roles.

    Remember, they’re getting about 20 episodes to dish out the plot of A Storm of Swords. It may be the longest book, but it certainly isn’t so long that it needs a full 20 episodes to cover if they keep up the current pacing. That gives them plenty of time to push elements from Clash back, and elements from Feast and Dance forward, where need be.

    Also, keep in mind that the early events in Storm of Swords already chronologically overlap with the events at the end of Clash of Kings, as explained in Martin’s “Note On Chronology.”

    So it’s likely that some or all of those events will also be pushed into Season 2.

  74. Bryon
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    I would imagine that season 5 and 6 that will encompass AFfC and ADwD will be in both seasons. GRRM has stated before that the time line for the POV for both books are parallels. It should be nice how this two merge together.

  75. tysnow
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    If season 3 and 4 are SoS and 20% of AFFC/DwD and 5 and 6 are remainder of AFFC/DwD, I believe GRRM will have WoW before season 6, maybe even 5, but I don’t see DoS being nearly completed in time.Though I have a feeling Winds will be mammoth and therefore easily two seasons in itself, so GRRM would have 2-3 years to complete Dream, which I am not sure is even possible. Therefore after season 7 and 8, GoT takes a year long hiatus and HBO produces a 10 episode Roberts Rebellion/ToJ mini series. This would give George an extra year to finish Dream.

  76. Rukie44
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    If all of the “big events” happen in episode 9 of each season (“Baelor”, “Blackwater” so far) then this show will start getting predictable. I hope they put “that” event in the middle of its respective season, that way it’ll be more of a surprise and we’ll have the entire second half of the season to see how characters react to it.

  77. HERP-DERP
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    GUYS CALM DOWN! I HAVE JUST CHECKED WHAT IS ON PAGE 673!

    ITS BASICALLY WHEN CATELYN, EDMURE AND ROB MEET THE FREY ENVOY [SER RYMAN ET AL], IN THE CATELYN CHAPTER BEFORE THE RED WEDDING CHAPTER! SEEMS A PERFECT PLACE TO END SEASON 3, SO THAT THE PREMEIRE EPISODE OF SEASON 4 COULD END WITH A BANG. NOW I SHALL TURN MY CAPS LOCK OFF and type normally…

  78. Tywin's Bastard
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    Knurk,

    Tastes differ, and that’s different from saying that nothing happens, so I have no problems with someone not caring for the books.

  79. tysnow
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    What would be good about a RR/ToJ 10 episode mini-series is you could use the same actors for most of the roles.

    Kit = Ned (30 yrs old)
    Richard = Brandon (31)
    Isaac = Benjen (19)
    Maisie = Lyanna (20)
    Sophie = Cat (21)
    Joe = Robert (31)

    I am sure plenty of other actors can be utilized also.

  80. lefaisan
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    HERP-DERP,

    You realize he said “page 673″ totally randomly, right ?

  81. Michael
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Hmm…if “Autumn Storms” refers to the period of time where Jon escapes from the wildings, then we’ll definitely get the RW as episode 9, and likely aftermath following in Ep. 10, as well as the death of Ygritte.

    This is a really difficult situation for the showrunners, but I’m actually starting to like the idea of the Red Wedding being in the 1st or 2nd episode of Season 4. Post RW is approx. 350 pages, but they are packed, Purple Wedding, Wildlings at the Wall, Tyrion’s Trial, Arya and the Hound, Un-Cat, etc. If you include an episode or two connected to the RW at the start of a season and then include all the rest (plus a little AFFC/ADWD to round it all out), and that is a full and truly epic season for sure.

    Also, starting Season 4 with the RW allows the show to continue to buck traditions and convention (instead of creating a Ep. 9 tradition, 3 seasons in a row, having the RW in Season 4 Ep. 1 would be one of the most shocking season premieres in the History of TV!) while also presenting a strong narrative focus (i.e. Cat dies at the beginning of the season, returns at the end, instead of her dying in one season, and waiting a full year to find out she’s been brought back)

    No matter what, all this news is very good, HBO continues to be committed to the show, GOT has a stronger and stronger chance of not getting “Deadwood-ed” but it’s also more and more likely that D&D will “finish” this story well before Martin has written all his books. I’m cool with that, since they’re adapting with his wholehearted support.

  82. WM
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    Steelyuhas

    Season 2 was given 15% more compare to season 1 primarily to fund the blackwater sequence (they also hired a different visual effects company PIXOMONDO)

  83. skipdutch
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    Rukie44,

    This is a common way of handling plot structure, especially at HBO (Seems like Sopranos always climax at penultimate episode, falling action/resolution last episode). I could see that event in the 8th episode though.

  84. HERP-DERP
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    lefaisan,

    so it would seem… they must have sat down and planned where they’d divide the 3rd book before.. he just made it sound like an off-hand comment as he does not want to ruin events in the season finale.. and i dont think it was just a coincidnce that p673 contained significant foreshadowing for the R double u

  85. Gecc1
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    My predictions.
    Autumn Storms Bran warging into Hodor and Summer, Death of Yggrite, Jon’s escape.
    End of Season 3 RW.

    I have no big issues with Crows + Dance taking two seasons.
    If Alan Ball can get 12 episodes out of a 350 page book (True Blood), David and DB can get 20 good episodes out of 1,700 pages.
    Take into account as well that there is quite a bit that happens (mostly off screen) in those two books that could make for interesting TV (ie. Qyburn’s work on Robert Strong, the invasion of Young Griff, knight of Flowers attack on Storms End, etc. )/b>

  86. Ed
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    ryra: I’m talking about Arya and the Hound’s journey (especially what happened after the RW part)

    Yep, I LOVE those parts of the book. One of my favorite journeys, to be sure. Kind of a Stockholm Syndrome thing going on, in a way.

  87. Mike Chair
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    Ed: Kind of a Stockholm Syndrome thing going on, in a way.

    Yeah, right up until she leaves him in the woods TO DIE!

  88. The Kingslayer
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    I still feel they need the extra two episodes, the series is just too big to give it justice with ten episodes.

  89. Oi!
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    Gecc1,

    Sorry but AFFC and ADWD together are worth just about a season of quality TV. Plus one would expect (considering the lack of Greyjoys in ASOS) that the whole Balon/Kingsmoot shenanigans gets pulled up into season 4 of the TV show.

  90. KG
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    Maybe they are adding a new character – Autumn Storm, bastard chaild of Stannis and Melisandre lol

  91. sjwenings
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    The Kingslayer: I still feel they need the extra two episodes, the series is just too big to give it justice with ten episodes.

    It’s not about the number of episodes, but the amount of book-material they choose to cover with ten eps. Since they’re no longer going 1 season per book.

    Either way: Seems like 10 eps is it, and is going to continue to be it, so I feel it’s time for people to start accepting this.

  92. Ashaïese
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    I’d love that they push the Red Wedding to season 4 and that they end season 3 with Robb entering the Twins with his bannermen in a very heavy atmosphere, the screen slowly getting darker and darker…

  93. Iker Gernika
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk:
    I don’t think four seasons would be enough to cover everything till the end of dance of dragons (at the pace of ten per season). D&D said they’re adapting the entire series, so a lot of overlaps will occur. Feast+Dance could easily be 30 episodes on its own, so hopefully Martin pumps out book 6 before 2017 and book 7 before 2018. Meaning he’d need 6 done by next year!

    Why not a prequel???

  94. Thiago Slash
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    nice to know ^^

    and I really have no idea what’s the title’s episode about.

  95. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    The pushing characters from book 2 into season 3 gives me hope for the Reeds!

  96. Iker Gernika
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    tysnow:
    What would be good about a RR/ToJ 10 episode mini-series is you could use the same actors for most of the roles.

    Kit = Ned (30 yrs old)
    Richard = Brandon (31)
    Isaac = Benjen (19)
    Maisie = Lyanna (20)
    Sophie = Cat (21)
    Joe = Robert (31)

    I am sure plenty of other actors can be utilized also.

    I was thinking the same but you nailed it!!!

  97. ryra
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Superdeluxe: The pushing characters from book 2 into season 3 gives me hope for the Reeds!

    That’s exactly what I thought when I read the interview, the Reeds are quite important for Bran story, I don’t want the producers to delete them and maybe use Osha to help Bran in his journey to the Wall and beyond

  98. The Kingslayer
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    I accept nothing, may the others take your acceptance and stick it up Mord’s bottom ;-p

  99. A Bear_A Bear
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    Dan: Yep, definietely Red Wedding as a season finale suits for me! It’s gonna be absolutely heartbreaking for those viewers that haven’t read the book tho…

    Whatever they may claim at the time, though, they _will_ come rushing back for a fourth season… ;)

  100. Ed
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    HugeFloppyGut: Boardwalk Empire killed off a Huge character in its season 2 finale and it alienated me..I’m not gonna watch Empire season 3 b/c of it

    I don’t get that. If the character dies, they die. (Game of Thrones is the champion of that).

    Who gives a shi&% if it’s in the first episode, the 4th or the last???

  101. The Kingslayer
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    I like the idea of ending the series with them entering The Twins, opening the 4th season with The Red Wedding would be ballsy and amazing.

  102. Arthur
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    Can anyone tell me the timeframe for castings? When did last years casting for the new characters being introduced for season 2 start?

    I can’t wait to see what characters make or don’t make the cut for the TV series. To me that’s really exciting…

  103. The Kingslayer
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    June was when Marg was cast I think.

  104. Max
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Great interview with Gwendoline Christie from SFX~
    http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/04/11/game-of-thrones-gwendoline-christie-interview/

    Winteriscoming.net even rates a mention as indentifing her as an early contendor for the part of Brienne!

  105. Shinyteapot
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Max,

    Sounds like she really went all out preparing for the role- proper dedication. I’m really looking forward to seeing Brienne in the series.

  106. scott glennon
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    I would love to write the scripts for that show. That would truly be awesome. *sigh* That would be the best job ever.

  107. KG
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Ed,

    I think putting the Red Wedding in the first episode would make television history for WTF?

  108. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    1st – you get to come back, you get some hope before the long layoff

    4th- again you get to come back, get some hope before the long layoff

    10th- You don’t get come back, you have a bitter and resentful/upset feeling, and you are stuck with that till the following year.

    You know who gives a sh*t? People who don’t know what is coming.

    Ed: I don’t get that.If the character dies, they die.(Game of Thrones is the champion of that).

    Who gives a shi&% if it’s in the first episode, the 4th or the last???

  109. feyrband
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    HugeFloppyGut: I like the idea of ending the series with them entering The Twins, opening the 4th season with The Red Wedding would be ballsy and amazing.

    the difference here is that one character is not carrying the entire series, which was the case with that character in Boardwalk Empire, for me anyways. this might be comparable say if Tyrion died, but still not as much as Jimmy carried BE- imo

  110. Ed
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    That would be an awesome start to a season, no argument here.

    KG:
    Ed,

    I think putting the Red Wedding in the first episode would make television history for WTF?

  111. HERP-DERP
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    I posted this in another thread.. but no one answered so I am posting it here.. as this has been on my mind for a while, and this thread seems more active.. With regards to Episode 12:

    The baby who Craster gives to the white walkers… is it Gilly’s? [I know in the books the gilly has her child]or are we to assume that one of Craster’s other daughter/wives just happened to be pregnant at the same time as Gilly and just happened to give birth during that same night the night’s watch were staying in? and no-one from the night’s watch were awoken by that wife’s screams?

  112. OhDanyBoy
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    HERP-DERP,

    I think it’s pretty obvious that all his wives are pregnant pretty much all the time.

    The baby was clearly not Gilly’s. Some other wife gave birth that night, and just because Craster was sneaking out at night doesn’t mean the baby was born during the night. It may even have been born weeks earlier, and there is just a set time of the month that Craster makes his sacrifices or something, or he can just tell when a particularly cold night comes that it is time. There are many plausible explanations.

    Oh, and the Night’s Watch didn’t stay for one night – int eh show they are clearly there for a stretch of time closer to a few days or a week.

  113. Robert Morris
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    this makes sense. its a tv series based on the books. its not simple a rehash of the books adapted word for word. i like the idea of it being slightly different. i love the books. if i want to read that exact sotry then i pick up the books. but tv is sooo different.

  114. Gecc1
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    HugeFloppyGut: I like the idea of ending the series with them entering The Twins, opening the 4th season with RW would be ballsy and amazing.

    I’d go a bit farther. End season 3 as the Rains of Castamere begins to play during the wedding leaving what may or may not happen until Episode 1 of Season 4.

  115. Crispin
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Ashaïese:
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    I like the idea of ending the series with them entering The Twins, opening the 4th season with The Red Wedding would be ballsy and amazing.

    I think it’d be even better not to go for the foreshadowing, but to have a kind of uplifting end to Season 3 that makes the audience excited for the next season, like the Night’s Watch riding out and the Dragon’s being born at the end of Season 1.
    So instead of ending on the foreshadowing of Robb riding into the Twins, I’d love for them to end with Robb’s war council just before, where he shares his plan for his assault on Moat Cailin, and then show his entire army as it marches off towards the north. This way, it would seem as if season 4 would start with the reconquest of the north, with the stop at the Twins being only a quick pit-stop… just to slap icy water into the face of the audience when the Red Wedding occurs in Episode 401.

    All that assumes that D&D won’t insist on using the “Rains of Castamere” song, since if they were to use that, it would be better not to have a hiatus between its first introduction and the RW climax so that it’s still present to the audience. WOuld be a shame not to use it, though.

  116. afartherroom
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    HERP-DERP: The baby who Craster gives to the white walkers… is it Gilly’s?

    No. Gilly hastened to assure the boys that she could “still run if [she] had to,” and it wasn’t immediately evident to either Jon or Sam that she was expecting. I think part of the point of that line was probably to emphasize that she’s not nearly that far along in her pregnancy. The baby must have been one of Craster’s other daughterwives’ children.

  117. Margus Toots
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    What Dance of Dragons scene he was talking about?

  118. Mimsy
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    Max,

    Thank you for the article link! What a heartfelt interview that turned out to be. I can’t wait to see Gwen breathe some life into Brienne.

  119. Astalnar
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    So, 3rd season is reserved for Jojen and Meera I can hope and Blackfish and his nephew. And then if we are lucky we, well those are must in any case we will get Eastern expansion.

  120. Conor
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    New Question!

    If Giants don’t make an appearance at the end of season 2, they will definitely make one next year. How do you think/hope they portray them? Fully CGI? or Like the wolves? (Real men in costumes, green screened and made taller)

    I’m hoping D&D have been playing a lot of Skyrim and make the Giants/Mammoth’s look like they do in that game. It’s pretty much exactly how I imagined them while reading, so I’m hoping for fully CGI.

  121. Knurk
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    Conor,

    I always thought this was a nice cover: (spoilers of course) http://www.deboekenplank.nl/naslag/aut/m/img/martin_g_ijs_3b_2002_1e.jpg

  122. Drfunk
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    I think each epic moments of book3 should have its own season. There’s just so much stuff happening in that book that saving “the red wedding” till 4th season would just make everything else in that season trivial. End Season 3 with a bang with the Red wedding, which would generate ridiculous buzz amongst non readers, then proceed the 4th with an entire new season of developments that are almost as epic. The last thing we need is to see some scenes cut entirely or just shot as a fan teaser just to build up to that 1 big event. RW, Joffrey dying, Oberynn dying, Tywin dying, Wildlings vs Castle Black, Dany vs Mereen… not to mention countless other key moments. So let’s not all bandwagon it all to the RW on 2 seasons.

  123. Jason
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    Gecc1,

    That would be a terrible ending since most of viewer will be spoiled.

  124. darrylzero
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    If we assume that Reek/Ramsay will be introduced next season, how does that affect what we think is possible vis-a-vis the Reeds? Not just likely, as many assume they won’t be cast at all, but possible.

    As I see it, Bran et al have to go into hiding at some point after Reek is introduced but before Rodrik lays siege to Winterfell. Clearly, you could introduce 1-2 Reeds later, on the road, but I think that stretches credibility. So, I think they have to present themselves to Winterfell while Theon is in control.

    How would that look? Would Theon take them prisoner? Would they pretend to be bringing Howland’s greetings to the new lord of Winterfell? That seems over the top. What would have happened in the books if they had arrived late, and Theon already controlled the castle?

  125. Winterdark
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Didn’t read the whole thread so maybe it’s already been said but no way GRRM is gonna write the Red Wedding episode. He always says he put it off till the very last because it was pure torture for him to write. So no way is he gonna put himself through that again. Pretty sure that ep will be written by D&D since they’ve been waiting for so long to do that event.

  126. Coltaine777
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    I’ve said before and I’ll say it again …IWAN RHEON FOR RAMSAY SNOW !!!

  127. Josh
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    Margus Toots,

    The Winterfell wedding night.

  128. Josh
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    Coltaine777,

    Seven hells, yes!!

  129. Giselle Glasgow
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Read the westeros.org interview with D&D… and I get the whole ‘ros’ thing now…….
    Anyhoo i cannot wait to see Brienne on screen!!! that would be the highlight for me with season 2…..

  130. CT Wahoo
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    I would think a good exercise would be to attempt to break the story of books 3-5 into individual story arcs and then seeing how they could be split over 4 TV seasons in order to meet the criteria that Weiss laid out regarding character growth over the course of a single season. For instance, you could single out Arya’s story and break it down:

    Season 3 = Arya with the Brotherhood without Banners and ends with her being taken prisoner by the Hound

    Season 4 = Arya and the Hound try and make their way to the Eyrie and ends with her boarding the ship to Braavos

    Season 5 = Arya finding and then starting her training at the House of Black and White and ends with her drinking the milk that causes her to go blind

    Season 6 = Arya’s continuation and eventual completion of her training at the House of Black and White (ends with her killing the customs guy with the poisoned coin)
    I’d be interested to see takes on other arcs such as Tyrion, Jon, Sansa, Bran, Theon, Dany, etc. I’m sure we’d all be proven wrong in the end, but I think this might develop an interesting picture once all the individual arcs are aggregated to see what the content of an individual future season might look like.

  131. CT Wahoo
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    Hmm. Tried to black out all of the season predictions but it didn’t work. Apologies

  132. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    A lot of this discussion regarding where to end the third season took place in the comments section yesterday, however another poster I’d been discussing this very matter with posted a response that I had missed until today, but found to be spot-on with regards to how to format these two seasons.

    Credit goes to SamDeGree for checking in at Tower of the Hand to approximate where each of the characters’ stories could end satisfactorily as a result of cutting A Storm of Swords roughly in half. At 82 total chapters, this is where he cut of the journey of each already-established character:

    Arya (44): Runs away from High Heart and Beric Dondarrion and is subsequently captured by the Hound.
    Jaime (45): After being released from Harrenhal, Jaime turns back to rescue Brienne.
    Sam (47): Saved by Coldhand’s.
    Jon (49): Returns to Castle Black to warn the Night’s Watch of the impending Wildling attack.
    Davos (37): After release from the dungeon, Stannis names him the Hand of the King.
    Catelyn & Robb (46): A farewell scene between Robb and Jeyne before he and his mother depart for The Twins. Also, Robb names Jon Snow as his rightful heir.
    Daenarys (43): After defeating the Yunkish army, she forces them to free their slaves.

    The last would also be my choice to end the third season with, so as not to foreshadow the events that follow too heavily. I’m aware that the first third of ASoS isn’t nearly as action-packed as the latter half, however David & Dan have already confirmed through interviews that some important characters have been pushed back and will need to be introduced (definitely the Tully’s and Ramsay, possibly the Reed’s).

    It’s obvious now that the adaptation will certainly become more or less the next three novels in the series (to varying degrees), and that’s a smart way to go about it. The Iron Islands storyline is something I’d expect to see more of in the third season, as a means of keeping Theon and the situation at Winterfell in the forefront. With the fourth season, I’d expect to be introduced to many of the characters found in Dorne, seeing as the Red Viper will certainly be a well-liked character and he provides an easy excuse (for lack of a better word) to bring them into the larger story.

    With roughly twenty hours to approximate the entirety of the third novel with pieces of the last two interspersed, I just don’t see how the Red Wedding can happen in either the 8th, 9th or 10th episode of season three without being rushed and losing some of its impact. Push it to the season four premiere and start the next part of that story with a bang.

    Also, I really like the circularity of starting the season with Catelyn’s death and reveling Lady Stoneheart at the end of the season.

  133. Burgos
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

    Honestly Premier of S4 Red Wedding would not only shock the audience but start the season with a big metaphoric kick in the nuts. Ned’s beheading bumped up viewership the following week, so if you use the same logic taking into an account the extra viewers for the premier (we may finally not have a ep1/ep2 drop)… The sky is the limit on growth.

  134. darrylzero
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    CT Wahoo:
    I would think a good exercise would be to attempt to break the story of books 3-5 into individual story arcs and then seeing how they could be split over 4 TV seasons in order to meet the criteria that Weiss laid out regarding character growth over the course of a single season.For instance, you could single out Arya’s story and break it down:

    Season 3 = Arya with the Brotherhood without Banners and ends with her being taken prisoner by the Hound

    Season 4 = Arya and the Hound try and make their way to the Eyrie and ends with her boarding the ship to Braavos

    Season 5 = Arya finding and then starting her training at the House of Black and White and ends with her drinking the milk that causes her to go blind

    Season 6 = Arya’s continuation and eventual completion of her training at the House of Black and White (ends with her killing the customs guy with the poisoned coin)

    I’d be interested to see takes on other arcs such as Tyrion, Jon, Sansa, Bran, Theon, Dany, etc.I’m sure we’d all be proven wrong in the end, but I think this might develop an interesting picture once all the individual arcs are aggregated to see what the content of an individual future season might look like.

    I think that’s a great idea. Looking at that Arya progression is a little worrying, huh? I want more! Some characters will definitely have a lot more to do than others. Either way, I think that’s the right way to think about it, and I’d definitely agree that’s where efforts at trying to break apart the seasons should begin. It’s not easy, though.

    Take a look at Davos. I think there are maybe three seasons worth of material for him:

    S3: Ends with being named hand and talking Stannis into going to the wall. That seems pretty clear.

    S4: Stays at the wall with Stannis and is involved in those plotlines?

    S5: Begins his trek down to White Harbor. Ends with being thrown in jail.

    S6: Absent for a while, then his ADWD arc.

    You could also bump what I’ve just called S5 to S4 and pretend he’s dead during all of S5, much like in the books. Or you could give him less to do in S3, make it take longer to get rescued, make him really plot against Mel for longer (and maybe with others?), throwing him into jail only at the end of S3. Then, his reconciliation with Stannis would be in S4. Takes away some potential post-RW optimism though.

    I guess you could also make him in charge of getting Sam/Aemon/Gilly to Braavos. That would look like:

    S3: Ends with being named hand and talking Stannis into going to the wall.

    S4: Travels to the wall with Stannis. Near the end, leaves for Braavos.

    S5: Some time on the sea, some time in Braavos, travel to White Harbor, thrown in jail.

    S6: ADWD.

    That might be a little better, but it has its problems too. Not sure what I think.

  135. darrylzero
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    CT Wahoo:
    Hmm. Tried to black out all of the season predictions but it didn’t work.Apologies

    You can still edit your post. Just put spoiler tags around each individual paragraph.

  136. Winterdark
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    I think pushing the Red Wedding to the season 4 premiere is a really bad idea. It’s really the end of a storyline and not the beginning of it plus killing characters off always works better in finales than premieres not just because practically (having an actor return for one episode is kinda stupid) but also death means the end and so do finales. To my mind major deaths in season premieres never work and always feel forced.

  137. John
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    I think putting the Red Wedding in the first episode would make television history for WTF?

    It certainly would be up there, but let’s not forget that 24 killed off two of the most important and beloved characters of the series in the premiere of Season 5.

  138. John
    Posted April 11, 2012 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    ryra,

    ryra: Superdeluxe: The pushing characters from book 2 into season 3 gives me hope for the Reeds!

    That’s exactly what I thought when I read the interview, the Reeds are quite important for Bran story, I don’t want the producers to delete them and maybe use Osha to help Bran in his journey to the Wall and beyond

    Because Bran appears to now have Jojen’s ability of having dreams that come true (according to one of the previews http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrQsRSNqGLQ) (I’m not sure why the link is showing through the spoiler tag, but it’s a link to the “Later this season” trailer from HBO, so don’t click on it if you don’t want to see it) and because it would cut down on costs, I think it’s likely that Jojen Reed will be cut. I’m still holding out hope for Meera Reed, as I really like her character, and I think it would be boring with just Bran and Hodor, since Osha would be going with Rickon.

  139. Maxwell James
    Posted April 13, 2012 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    darrylzero,

    All excellent examples to demonstrate that the books as published will only comprise 5 seasons, rather than 6. There is simply not enough material for 6 full seasons yet. If you draw out Jon’s, or Tyrion’s, or Dany’s, or Jaime’s arc it leads to the same conclusion.


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