Recap Round-up: What Is Dead May Never Die
By Ours is the Fury on in Press.

Here are the notable recaps and reviews of the third episode of Game of Thrones‘s second season:

Book Readers
Mo Ryan – The Huffington Post (This recap also includes an interview with D.B. Weiss)
Axechucker (Fire and Blood) – TVEquals
Myles McNutt – Cultural Learnings
James Hibberd – EW
Jace Lacob – Televisionary
Sarah Hughes – The Guardian
James Poniewozik – Time
Sean T. Collins – Rolling Stone
Rowan Kaiser – Press Play
Todd VanDerWerff – A.V. Club
Elio Garcia Jr. – Westeros.org

New Viewers
David Sims – A.V. Club
Jenifer D. Braun – NJ Star-Ledger
Larry Williams – OtakuASSEMBLE
Alan Sepinwall – HitFix
Matt Richenthal – TV Fanatic
John Kubicek – Buddy TV
Scott Meslow – The Atlantic
Andy Greenwald – Grantland

HBO also provides regular recap and “Inside the Episode” videos every week:

Episode Recap- Youtube Link

Inside the Episode- Youtube Link


97 Comments

  1. Matt S
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    Probably my favourite episode of Game of Thrones so far. Top 3 for sure.

  2. Ty
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    No Jennifer Braun review… Sad face.

  3. Tedd
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    Another new reader is Andy Greenwald at Grantland.com. Here’s the link to his recap: http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/47744/game-of-thrones-season-2-episode-3-what-is-dead-may-never-die

  4. Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    I want to preface this criticism about last night’s episode by saying that i am by no means a book purist. I totally understand and accept the need to make changes, some small, some bigger, in order to adapt the books to the tv show.

    But I do have a problem when those changes create a situation in the TV show that now defies internal show logic. Such a change occurred in this episode.

    In the books, if I recall correctly, Arya/Gendry/et al escape the initial slaughter of Yoren and the other Night’s Watch recruits and wander around for a bit and then are captured and taken to Harrenhal.

    I can totally understand wanting to condense this and just have them captured off the bat and skip over all that. sure maybe some cute stuff between the kids is missed but i understand the need to.

    However the show did not set this change properly and now have a giant plot hole that you can drive a truck thru. Namely that everybody in that group of Night’s Watch recruits knows Gendry’s name and there is nothing to stop them from telling Lorch and his minions who Gendry really is to curry favour.

    1. Without the show explicitly saying that Gendry was hiding his name from everybody in the NW recruits group it is safe to assume that that group knows. Firstly Arya knows his name …. which can only mean without explicit indication otherwise that others would know it too. It is a small group and they’ve been on the road together for weeks. The other kids would know (they may even explicitly know and have said his name in the show i don’t recall) and if the group dynamic works as one thinks it would than the adults would know too since they are probably at the “top of the food chain” and order the kids around to do chores and the like.

    2. Even if somehow, miraculously, despite no evidence to support it, nobody in the NW recruit camp knew Gendry’s name (except Arya) everybody in that group HAS seen him carrying the bull helmet around like Linus’ blanket. So even if they don’t know his name (which is highly unlikely) everybody knows he is the kid with the bull helmet.

    3. so now the show has set up that the group of NW recruits know Gendry probably by name and at least by the bull helmet … and the gold cloaks and Lorch have been specific who they are looking for … a boy named Gendry with a bull helmet. we also know that Arya and Gendry have been captured by those who want to find Gendry with other NW recruits who know who he is and know that Lorch/King want him badly and the NW recruits aren’t exactly super honourable men who wouldn’t sell Gendry our to save their own hides.

    So this change, while necessary has been totally bungled in an unbelievable way so now we have to believe the absurd: that despite being actively sought by name and bull helmet, with a group of unsavoury criminals (NW recruits) who know who he is, know he is wanted by important powerful people and know that turning him in would give them at least reprieve from the Wall and maybe more in way of reward, that Arya’s little ploy (with a blonde headed boy who looks nothing like strong enough to be a armourers apprentice which those looking for him also know that he is black haired and large/strong enough to be an apprentice blacksmith) is going to keep Gendry from being indentified as a Robert bastard by Lorch’s men?

    Hello giant ass plot hole totally inconsistent with the show’s internal logic.

    If you are going to make a change you had best make sure you set it up properly so it doesn’t create an obviously absurd situation within just the context of the show alone and not even considering relation to the book.

    I have to seriously downgrade the episode for such a glaring flaw i’m afraid. the rest of the good parts are sort of soured by the giant dumb istake part.

  5. Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    Oh, I also think that if Theon had gone thru an actual drowning and kiss of life revival ceremony to the drowned god it would have made his transformation/decision to side with his family and against Robb much more powerful.

  6. Lionheart1987
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 9:37 am | Permalink
  7. Winter Is Coming
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?:
    Oh, I also think that if Theon had gone thru an actual drowning and kiss of life revival ceremony to the drowned god it would have made his transformation/decision to side with his family and against Robb much more powerful.

    As I explained in the recap thread, that would be inconsistent with the portrayal of the Ironborn in the books. Only the Damphair and his extremely devout followers practice this baptismal method, the majority of Ironborn just pour salt water over their heads. I guess you could say they should make an exception for a more dramatic scene here, but when they introduce Aeron, it will be good to have this method of baptism already established so they can show how extreme he takes his belief in the Drowned God.

  8. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    Ty,

    It was late being posted today, but it’s out now, so I added it to the list. :)

  9. Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    oh, i get it but it is something that would have really helped the TV Theon character. it would have been a very powerful very impactful scene showing just how desperate Theon is to gain his Father/Family’s favour and to be a “true Ironborn” and to just what extremes he will go … it would have been excellent foreshadowing …. well worth the divergence from the books and perhaps a bit of later detriment to Aeron (who knows if we’ll even get there anyway).

    can you just imagine Theon struggling below the waves as the priest holds him down drowning him, dragging his lifeless body out of the sea and reviving him as his father and sister look on perhaps gaining a bit of new respect for him and then Theon’s revival and just how shattered he would look due to the event itself and exactly what it symbolizes (the total and irrevocable betrayal of the Starks in favour of the Greyjoys).

    it would have been epic.

  10. Tropxe
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,

    I think you need to watch it again and pay a bit more attention this time. They think they’ve killed Gendry because Arya told them Lommy was Gendry; Lommy having just been killed, his corpse lying next to the bull helmet that you saw him look at earlier when they first came under attack. It doesn’t matter if the other kids know who Gendry is because they’re not going to be asked about him anymore since the people hunting him now believe he’s dead.

  11. Andy Gavin
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    Best episode of the season yet. Hard choices for all the characters. While the plot is great, it’s the strength of the human dynamics that really make this show so fun. My full review here.

  12. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    One of my favorite features, I definitely like to read what what others have to say about GoT. Braun, Sepinwall, Greenwald are my favorite non-readers. FYI Greenwald does a GoT Podcast weekly I believe. I know Sepinwall does a podcast during his Fire and Icewall podcast, but they don’t do weekly podcasts.

    Of the established viewers, I like poniewozik, Myles Mcnutt, Mo Ryan and Jace Lacob. It doesn’t hurt that they are active on Twitter, and Mo has her weekly podcast Ryan and Ryan on TV. Good stuff.

    I also like Alyssa Rosenberg from Think Progress, surprised she is not listed as a reader, as she is very active in her GoT comments on Twitter as well.

    http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/04/16/464688/game-of-thrones-open-thread-fealty/

  13. Winter Is Coming
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?, well I thought the scene as written and shot was pretty emotional and impactful and epic. And it didn’t require having to explain to the audience why Theon is being drowned, as baptism by having water poured over your head is universally understood whereas baptism by being drowned and then revived via CPR is not.

  14. Random fan
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    Larry Williams is the man! Loved his reactions this week.

  15. Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    Tropxe,

    uh. yeah. that wouldn’t work. A. because the kid killed is blonde and a pip squeak and the guards/king’s men know they are looking fora black haired armour/blacksmith apprentice (which by nature of the job requires he be big and strong). and B. even if we assume that every single king’s man with a description of Gendry the exact opposite of the boy who died is stupid enough to believe Arya and that they won’t “ask any more questions” it in no way prevents one of the adults int he NW recruits who have survived and know who Gendry really is from turning him in so as to spare their lives and/or get away from the Wall or get a reward … just because the king’s men don’t ask questions doesn’t mean an enterprising criminal wouldn’t jump to give them correct information so as to gain some reward/reprive for himself.

    the whole situation is now totally unbelievable in the context that the show itself has created. it worked in the book because Arya and Gendry weren’t captured at the time the NW recruits were all killed and by the time they were captured anybody who knew who they were were dead except the two of them which they could implicitly trust.

  16. Josh
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    I think some of the complaints are just getting out there. Yesterday someone complained that Jaquen wasn’t wearing a hood…seriously???

  17. Drew
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    Tropxe,

    Yeah you have a really good point! the very fact Arya accused Lommy as being Gendry would also really hinder the believability of anybodies story later down the line.

  18. Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    hmm. yes, i can see that. but i still think a full drowning would have been simply epic and really good foreshadowing. but the scene wasn’t bad as it was, i just personally think the other way would have been better. but i can see both sides of the coin so to speak.

  19. Random fan
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Oh, and I thought it was a great episode. Although I agree with this site’s review, that Shae is absolutely botched. It will make it that much less heartbreaking when she betrays Tyrion, since she’s already such a $%&$ that it won’t be as shocking as it was in the book

    Tyrion’s ploy played out very well, and I’m fine with how the Theon baptism went. When Arya was talking to Yoren about how she can’t sleep cause she has terrible things in her head, I got choked up, A. because of how good she acted the scene out and B. Cause Yoren’s story was so well told, and I knew what was coming next =( ……..Well done!!!

  20. Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    Drew,

    A. no it wouldn’t …. Lommy couldn’t lift an armour’s hammer much less be believed by a sane medieval person to have been an active blacksmith’s apprentice.

    B. who cares if they believe the new accuser or not … they would simply kill Gendry at the hint he might be Gendry even if they already think another possible Gendry is dead. these aren’t exactly discerning or squeamish people. Polliver put a sword thru Lommy without a second thought just because he couldn’t keep up with the group … you really think they’d hesitate to kill Gendry when somebody said “hey, that blond runt wasn’t Gendry the blackhaired blacksmith apprentice this big strapping black haired lad is Gendry, he was with our group for a month and i heard him called Gendry many times and i saw him with the bull helmet many times”? like they’d go “oh, well i’d like to believe you but this little girl already told us some other dead blond kid was Gendry so we would never kill this kid too just to be on the safe side because we are super honourable men who just hate killing children.”

    face it … they blundered and set up a giant plot hole. it happens but it could have been avoided and it proves if you are going to change from the books you must be careful and set the change up properly so as not to create issues for yourself.

  21. Drew
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,

    If Tropxe’s comment didnt make it clear read mine…

    Lommy was wearing the Bulls head helmet

    Arya said, after Lommy’s death, that Lommy was Gendry

    Nobody in their right mind would try to counter that claim because both arya and anyone that spoke up would be subject to scrutiny, and plus arya has the stronger claim.. Lommy had the helmet with him.

    The goldcloaks were looking for an armours apprentice with a bulls head helm. Lommy could pass for that even if he didnt have big arms, plus the gold cloaks, and Joffery for that matter dont know that all of robert’s bastards were ‘black of hair’

    Anyone stupid enough to speak up, would most likely be killed, as would arya, as would gendry. Its purely logically as to why no one would speak up after Arya declared Lommy as Gendry

  22. Drew
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Drew,

    Anyone stupid enough to speak up, would most likely be killed, as would arya, as would gendry. Its purely logically as to why no one would speak up after Arya declared Lommy as Gendry

  23. Josh
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    I doubt the goldcloaks would go beyond what they have now…They can go back to King’s Landing and claim they killed Gendry. That’s all they want. They don’t care if they kill the actual Gendry.

  24. Delta1212
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?:
    Drew,
    “oh, well i’d like to believe you but this little girl already told us some other dead blond kid was Gendry so we would never kill this kid too just to be on the safe side because we are super honourable men who just hate killing children.”

    No, it’d probably be more like “Ok, thanks, we’ll kill him now. Of course, either you or that pip squeak was lying to us about who Gendry was, and we can’t have that so we’ll kill both of you as well.”

    Not that I’d expect many of the Night’s Watch recruits to be smart enough to be deterred by that, but if it never comes up in the show, I’m just going to go with that explanation and move on.

  25. Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Drew,

    you say that but i think you might not understand what “logical” means.

    firstly nobody in a medieval setting would buy that Lommy was an apprentice armourer/blacksmith. he was smaller than Arya. being a blacksmith apprentice is extremely hard work and requires great strength. it is a common and accepted trope in Fantasy but also a truth in reality.

    secondly any one of 20 adult NW recruits know that Gendry is Gendry and that Lommy wasn’t Gendry. so all it takes is one of the survivors, who are mostly criminals, to take a gamble that by telling the king’s men what they want to know he will improve his situation to do so …. one of them is going to try and curry favour … that is simply how the desperate headed-for the wall criminal mind works.

    i understand i am holding the show to a high standard of coherence but that is what i expect of this show …. the best … because that is what the books are …. there are no giant gaping plot holes created by laziness in the books and so if you are the show and you want/need to deviate from the books you had better hold yourself to the same standard and in this case the failed to do so.

    it would have been simple to show in the earlier episode that Gendry was travelling under an assumed name and he only tells Arya what his name his when she tells him who she is … as part of the “they are looking for me … no they are looking for me” scene. and the could have just shown that Gendry was keeping the helmet wrapped up and hidden and only looking at it in private. boom. 20 seconds of added scene and the whole thing is set up air tight and makes sense.

  26. Handmaiden of Dany
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    Can anyone tell me what Larry’s reactions to the episode overall were? I don’t get to watch it until tonight, but someone above said they liked his reaction to this one. Please don’t spoil me though with any particular comments about a scene, thanks!

  27. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    Yoren definitely did not go out as a b*tch. That was a man’s death right there.

    At least they gave him a warrior’s death (KNife into spine)

  28. Skipjack
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,

    We don’t know that they won’t betray Gendry. Again, this is the show not the books. They decided not to after being attacked and having some of their number slaughtered. I’m not saying there’s honor among thieves, but snitches get stitches, ya know?

    Besides, the goldcloaks don’t necessarily know what Gendry looks like, while they do know about the bull helmet. The black haired part has been pretty top secret considering what it says about Joffrey.

    ETA: thought only a few people had responded to the whole thread, should have refreshed before commenting.

  29. Mike from Braavos
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,

    The fact that you’re the only person who seems to think this is “a giant plot hole that you can drive a truck thru.” shows how LOGICAL your line of thinking is.

    I see your point (as I think others here do) as to why there could be a problem there… but I think you’re making it out to be a bigger deal than it is. I think the most logical conclusion is (as others have pointed out) that nobody involved REALLY CARES about who Gendry is or if he is alive. They only care about the order – and as far as they are concerned, the order has been fullfilled. They can bring the helmet back to Kings Landing and say “he’s dead”. Do you think anyone is following up w/ all the other bastards killed in KL to make sure they are all really who they thought they were?

    And really, to your point about EVERYONE knowing who he was – the kids stuck together, so it only makes sens that Hot Pie would know his name, but its very possible (if not likely and logical) that most of the folks there just knew there was some kid w/ a bull helmet… most of the guys heading north might actually have believed it was Lommy.

    And just because he was a blacksmith’s apprentice doesn’t mean he was a GOOD apprentice – he may have been nothing more than a glorified errand boy, so it is definitely logical that folks would not assume he had to be big & strong (again – the order has been carried out, so nobody is even thinking about whether it was REALLY him – they don’t REALLY care).

  30. Mormegil
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    “The dragons are gone,” Luwin lectures, though we know that’s not true. “The giants are dead.” (Somewhere an HBO executive in charge of Thrones’ budget mutters to himself, “And they better stay dead!”).

    So true.

  31. Jenifer Braun
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Ty,

    Hi Ty!

    The review is now up! Apologies for the delay, we experienced technical difficulties this week.

    http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2012/04/game_of_thrones_recap_season_t_1.html

    I hope you’ll drop by to read it!
    Cheers,
    Jenifer Braun
    nj.com

  32. Vanderhook
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,

    I swear I posted this but it looks like it didn’t go through.

    You are making WAY too big of a deal of this minor “plot hole”.

    First, it’s never stated that the Lannister men or the Gold Cloaks know what Gendry looks like, just that he has a bull helmet.

    Secondly, it’s a common misconception that all blacksmiths are big, strong, barrel chested men. This is a stereotype that is perpetuated by fantasy books. In reality, a blacksmith usually didn’t have a build any different than anyone else. Not to mention, theres plenty of apprentice jobs in a blacksmith. Just because you work in a blacksmith doesn’t mean you are ACTUALLY creating armor.

  33. lefaisan
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Mormegil,

    One of the interviews implied that we might see “a giant or two” this season.

  34. userj
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    lol Larry was fun this week.

    re: Brienne: “That is a TALL drink of water right thar Mmmm Hmmm…”
    He’s going to be rather pissed when indeed it turns out that Brienne is almost an Honor robot AND in love with Renly. Oh well, considering that circumstances immediately undermine that hopefully will demonstrate to him that it’s a deconstruction of the cliche.

    Also very interesting to hear his perception of Marg, very cool that she comes across as magnetic. :)

    As always, I really want to ask him What Do You Think Sansa Can Actually DO When you ask her to “DO SOMETHING”? But this is pretty common attitude for new readers. She’ll win him over eventually I HOPE.

  35. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Jenifer Braun:
    Ty,

    Hi Ty!

    The review is now up! Apologies for the delay, we experienced technical difficulties this week.

    http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2012/04/game_of_thrones_recap_season_t_1.html

    I hope you’ll drop by to read it!
    Cheers,
    Jenifer Braun
    nj.com

    Very Nice, always looking forward to your reviews, When I tweeted the NJ.com twitter, they still had not yet known who was going to do the weekly recaps, glad you are back.

  36. Who Is Jacopo Belbo?
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    here is a video review from Think Hero:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3MJZ6hYrXT8

    it is every week and these two girls have both read the books and it is actually pretty good … it is more coherent than Larry and it is an interesting perspective.

  37. Acrodyn
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Guys, this isn’t a plothole, not yet at least!
    Nobody said at the end of the episode: “Oooh, that was him?! Ok, then, off you go, sorry for bothering!”

    They are taking everybody else to the Harenhall and to Tickler. ( I guess everybody here read the books, but if not, I won’t spoil anything – just some minor details)
    No one is free and I can see a few of the remaining ex-NW recruits go trough torture and whatnot.

    I can already see Tickler with : “Where is the gold?” ; “Where is the real Genrdy?” ; “Is Gendry alive?” and stuff like that.

  38. timmy t
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    It doesn’t bother me too much – and we don’t know what it’ll happen going forward – but ‘Who is Jacopo Belbo’ has a point with Gendry. I know the gents I watched the show with last night all turned to one another and wondered who would be stupid enough to buy that bullshit Arya fed them.

  39. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Superdeluxe,

    She’s not on the list because she posts late. Can’t hold up the round-up for just one writer. :)

  40. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,

    I left that one off this week since the glaring inaccuracy about Brienne being in love with Loras bothered me.

  41. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    She needs to finish quicker! :) Its all good, shes on my own recap/review list :)

    Ours is the Fury:
    Superdeluxe,

    She’s not on the list because she posts late. Can’t hold up the round-up for just one writer. :)

  42. andrea
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    “Speaking of Theon, I thought Alfie Allen leaned a bit too heavily onto “yelling” as an acting choice tonight, but that does capture the character’s petulance, so I think it’s a choice more than a limitation.”

    I’m not the only one who thinks that Alfie Allen was very noisy in some scenes. But McNutt thought that was the actor´s choice. For me it was too much and is not a matter of choices either. Actors and actresses in this series are excellent by 95% but you can not rely solely on their abilities. It seems that some directors are embarrassed to correct certain performances (as they are very good almost all the time). Allen needed some restraint there imo.

  43. oddlyotter
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    I love Larry’s reviews. I always watch his. It’s interesting to see such a vocal new fan. The way he guesses and discusses what he thinks with only the knowledge of the show, it’s refreshing. It shows how the newcomers perceive the story the best. There are articles and such but his seem to be more candid and less polished. With articles you always have the whole formatting and trying to sound well but, with his videos, Larry is just candid about it all. As I said, it’s refreshing.

  44. David
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    userj,

    I thought Larry’s comments about Brienne were pretty funny as well seeing as we know what he doesn’t want her to be is exactly what she is. But you are right, that facet of her character quickly gets thrown out the window so it will be interesting to see how he takes that.

    And regarding the whole Gendry plot hole thing, another reason no one might talk is that maybe all the guys going up to the wall have sort of accepted they are Night’s Watch already and have bonded a bit so they wouldn’t sell him out like that. I mean they did come back and fight when Yoren was killed when they could have just taken off.

    Also, maybe the writers are actually taking the story in the direction of someone ratting him out. It’s entirely possible. I say we just wait and see. And even if no one rats him out, I won’t be upset about it.

  45. Ed
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Exactly. It’s almost as if Jacobo Belbo purposely tries to find stuff to complain about… Oh, wait, he would never do that. :-)

    Tropxe:
    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,

    I think you need to watch it again and pay a bit more attention this time. Theythink they’ve killed Gendry because Arya told them Lommy was Gendry; Lommy having just been killed, his corpse lying next to the bull helmet that you saw him look at earlier when they first came under attack. It doesn’t matter if the other kids know who Gendry is because they’re not going to be asked about him anymore since the people hunting him now believe he’s dead.

  46. Ed
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?:
    Drew,

    face it … they blundered and set up a giant plot hole.it happens but it could have been avoided and it proves if you are going to change from the books you must be careful and set the change up properly so as not to create issues for yourself.

    Yes, I’m sure the writers and D&D didn’t read the script and just glossed over it. I’m sure it wasn’t considered at all. Theyve already shown they don’t care about being accurate, or writing a coherant screenplay.

    They’ve blundered all through this and the show will be lucky to survive this season. I’d stop watching if I were you. OH WAIT – better yet, maybe they can hire YOU to read their scripts for them and advise them of those terrible blunders BEFORE they make them! (gasp!) You could save the show! If only they were smarter than you…

  47. jkb
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 1:27 pm | Permalink
  48. Middlefinger
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    Ed,

    Im with Jacobo Belbo on this. That “fix” is just lame, and makes no sense.

    ETA: Writing has been the weakest part of this show. Almost every time they depart from the books they manage to ruin it one way or another.

  49. OldGran
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Love to read the reviews. No I dont read ALL of them, but usually in this order:
    Larry first, I love his newbe reactions.
    Then Starr-Ledger girl. Mostly because as a child I was often conned,ankle twisted and otherwise tortured to help deliver the Starr-Ledger. In those days there were no female “paper boys” and said paper boy would insist that I help him with his route. It was his theory that folks would more likely cough up the dough on payment day if a little girl was at the door. When they saw him they were reminded that the paper was often late or tossed into inaccessible locations. Teddy was “sick” on rainy/cold days and he would get our friend Rob to do the route for him, but I would have to go too because now I knew the customers. The only “pay” was to share a vanilla shake at the OWL drug store’s soda fountain. fond memories of the Newark Starr-Ledger.

  50. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Star Ledger has had some of the best reviewers, Sepinwall and Seitz both used to write for that paper.

  51. Mimsy
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    The Otaku review was great. I think half the fun is seeing him trying to remember new character names. You just know that’s happening in the newbie homes. If he’s mildly disappointed with Brienne in the upcoming episode, it won’t be for long, cuz her interactions with Jaime are FULL of win!

  52. LordStarkington
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    Not a recap but not sure where else to put this. Miltos Yerolemou (Syrio) did a fairly long session answering questions over on reddit (be warned of NSFW language and what not)

    http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/sapz2/hello_i_am_miltos_yerolemou_i_am_an_actor_you/

  53. Handmaiden of Dany
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Did anyone se this on Saturday Night Live??!!! LOL

    http://gawker.com/5902076/snl-explains-the-nudity-in-game-of-thrones

  54. Restore The Day
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    a- Helmetgate:

    I’m with Jacopo on this, up to a point. It would have been easy to avoid this kind of hole, and even do it like the book did: in the book, only the first 2 guards are here for Gendry, they’re sent back packing and then the boys in black take off the road to avoid being found. Armory Lorch (and Gregor after them) are just part of the war lunatics, not looking for a certain blacksmith apprentice.

    That being said, we don’t know what the next episodes will bring, but even if Jacopo’s worst fears come true, I don’t think it warrants a dozen posts to rile about it. I wish they’d have avoided any trace of incoherence, but it will be a mild annoyance at most.

    b- Shaesgate (or fish pie?)

    You all ought to remember, the book chapters are written from the point of view of certain characters. The only times we read about Shae was through the eyes of a hopelessly romantic Tyrion and his desperate hopes for love. No wonder she appeared perfect in every way! So it’s very possible she actually WAS a uneducated, ill tempered harpy that wrapped him around her little finger. Looks like every season of The Bachelor brings at least a few examples that are even less believable than this fiction character.

  55. Ollie
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    I really liked this episode, it was nice to see Sansa although i think we need to see more of the Hound just in the same proximity to her so people will understand the little bird relationship which is pretty much non existent atm.
    I totally loved the Yoren both his bad ass death and also his story which will set up Arya own prays.
    Also like the letter burning scene with Theon i felt that was a great way to show his loyalties divided then chosen, did anyone else get that and was it in the book I can’t remember but I don’t think so.
    Also I agree with Who Is Jacopo Belbo? I think that does leave a pretty important plot hole but maybe others wont notice or care only time will tell. Personaly i felt it could be better done although I get the compressing the hunt into one attack.

  56. Restore The Day
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Also – yeah, yeah, Yoren is a BAMF, it’s awesome, it’s epic, but why? He’s just an old nightswatch man tasked with traveling in westeros and bringing back new recruits to the wall; i get that he would have been through more fights than a regular lannister boy, and that he would be generally tough, but he cuts more throats in a minute than even Syrio Forel would. How is that credible?

    Anyway, just a very small rant.

  57. GrandmaFunk
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    It’s way too early to call “plot hole” on the lommy-as-gendry angle as the episode ends immediately after arya makes that statement.

    we don’t see/hear Lorch’s reaction, we don’t know if anyone else in the group will contradict her, we don’t even know the fate of the men in the cage.

    since the story obviously diverges from the book here(a change I’m not the happiest about since it skips over what is basically my favourite part of Clash.) it’s very silly to make assumptions about what’s logical or not until we see what happens next.

  58. Ed
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    Middlefinger:
    Ed,

    Im with Jacobo Belbo on this. That “fix” is just lame, and makes no sense.

    ETA: Writing has been the weakest part of this show. Almost every time they depart from the books they manage to ruin it one way or another.

    RUIN it? Sigh… What is it with the extreme reactions and Needle-into-the-Red proclamations? Can’t you just “not like” what they’ve done… or.. disagree with a way they handle it?

    Hahahahahaha…. Just take a deep breath guys, it’s truly a minor thing. By the Seven, we’ve got this amazing adaption of our favorite books, that is universally lauded with praise, and you’re spending your time picking at the 5% that you don’t like, making claims that they’re ruining it.

    I respect your right to an opinion, but… Really?

  59. Ser Lurkalot
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Larry is King. Enjoyed his video more than the actual episode almost.

    And plot hole gate is too funny.

  60. Peter
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    I know this has nothing to do with the episode last night but it looks like our good king Joffrey has become a Trinity Scholar.

    http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/game-of-thrones-star-becomes-trinity-scholar-419403-Apr2012/

  61. Mimsy
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    jkb: OT:
    Episode #14 Preview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqDXB5rSyVk

      

    Umm.. Why is Gendry and this other fellow being tortured? Does this mean Arya’s lie only bought them some time?

  62. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 4:22 pm | Permalink
  63. sjwenings
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    Superdeluxe,

    Steady is really good when the ratings are great!

    Edit: I mean – It has more viewers than Mad men! (and BE) If I heard that when i started following WiC back in the day, I’d be extatic!

  64. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    I agree!

    sjwenings:
    Superdeluxe,

    Steady is really good when the ratings are great!

  65. MRR
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Here’s mine, late as always!

    Also, I think “Who is Jacob Belbo?” is perhaps jumping to conclusions a little bit. We haven’t actually seen how the Lannisters react to Arya’s ploy just yet. Furthermore, it’s entirely conceivable that these Lannister soldiers don’t have exactly the same info the goldcloaks did – perhaps all they have to go on is the bull helmet. Also, what sort of Lannister would dispute the fact that Robert Baratheon could father blonde children?

  66. Maxwell James
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Even better is the fact that HBO seems to be leaking the ratings, since their well-established preference is to release on Tuesday. If they’re letting folks know on Monday, they must be pleased.

  67. Morgan King
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    In case it hasn’t been said enough – that’s, barring a timing difference, EXACTLY how Aeron baptized Theon in the book. It’s chapter 11 in ACOK.

  68. Langkard
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Hibberd is always a fun read, because he knows the books well enough to make snarky comments which reference them and Alan Sepinwall seems like the best of the non-readers. It’s sad that he is having so many problems with idiots who won’t follow his no spoiler rules, though.

    The best bit of all the reviews this time is the following snippet from Mo Ryan’s interview with D. B. Weiss:

    Ryan : If you thought things were looking dicey for the show at any point, would that ever tempt you to change the story to kind of leave things in a more conclusive place at the end of a particular season?

    Weiss: No. It’s always seemed like an all-or-nothing, damn-the-torpedoes kind of enterprise. It’s something that you’re either going to do right or you’re not going to do at all. So to the best of our ability, we’re going to keep trying to do it right and not make any emergency/contingency plans because I don’t think fear is going to help make the show be what it should be. I mean, George’s series is a bold series in many ways and we hope to emulate that and really go for broke on it.

    Yes! Well, that lays to rest any speculation that they may try to rewrite and restructure Season 3 in ways which would allow it to end cleanly, if necessary. No, sir! They’re going to write it as if it is going to go all 10-12 seasons. Thank you, Dan and Dave!

  69. Meg
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    I love Larry’s reviews but I cringe every time he makes a jab at characters who he thinks are acting weak (Sansa). Not everyone in this universe is going to be a BAMF.

  70. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?: Tropxe, uh. yeah. that wouldn’t work. A. because the kid killed is blonde and a pip squeak and the guards/king’s men know they are looking fora black haired armour/blacksmith apprentice (which by nature of the job requires he be big and strong). and B. even if we assume that every single king’s man with a description of Gendry the exact opposite of the boy who died is stupid enough to believe Arya and that they won’t “ask any more questions” it in no way prevents one of the adults int he NW recruits who have survived and know who Gendry really is from turning him in so as to spare their lives and/or get away from the Wall or get a reward … just because the king’s men don’t ask questions doesn’t mean an enterprising criminal wouldn’t jump to give them correct information so as to gain some reward/reprive for himself.the whole situation is now totally unbelievable in the context that the show itself has created. it worked in the book because Arya and Gendry weren’t captured at the time the NW recruits were all killed and by the time they were captured anybody who knew who they were were dead except the two of them which they could implicitly trust.

    Well considering that after reading multiple recaps and multiple multiple viewer comments this is the first I’ve seen anybody mention the unbelievability of that scene, I for one am not going to worry about it.

    And for the record I think you have a good point, but if you want to go looking for plot holes, either in the adaptation or the source material, there are plenty there waiting for you. It’s just really not worth getting hung up on.

  71. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    @ Who is Jacopo Belbo –

    before you question the internal logic of HBO’s adaptation, perhaps you should ask why Yoren is transporting Arya et. al. overland to begin with. Surely GRRM knew it would be safer, faster and cheaper to have them sail up to Eastwatch (cp. Janos Slynt’s fate) and head across to Castle Black from there.

    As logic flaws go in GRRM’s oh-so-carefully-crafted world, that’s actually a minor one:

    – Winter flaw: vegetation manages to thrive in total darkness for years on end, providing at least some food for animals and men.

    – Maginot Line flaw: the western end of the Wall is a river that would surely have frozen over multiple times over the last 8000 years, allowing any wildling (never mind supernatural) army to simply walk past the immense fortification. Plus, ships/rafts.

    – Twins flaw: there is no major road to either side of the supposedly strategic bridge, so who are the Freys collecting tolls from during peacetime?

    – Iron Islands flaw: how did the Ironborn build a navy on islands without any forests?

    – Free Cities flaw: why bother ever paying tribute to the Dothraki when all you need to do is destroy all the bridges across the river Rhoyne?

    – Shivering Sea flaw: why are there no Free Cities east of Lorath even though there must be a temperate zone north of the inland steppes?

    Bottom line: chill out and enjoy the nonsequiturs, cp. Escape from Stalag Luft 112B.

  72. Hexonx
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    Regarding Gendry,

    1. Yes everyone of the recruits knows who Gendry is. That is made pretty clear. Why is this even a question? Everyone looks at him after the gold cloaks leave. Lommy talks about giving him up. At the end they all look at him down the line before Arya speaks up.

    2. I’m not sure if this has been pointed out but it was not the gold cloaks that killed Yoren & captured the group. It was Amory Lorch and his men from Harrenhal. Who knows if they know what Gendry looks like. If they received a raven from Kings Landing I would assume a description would have been included. But maybe the 2 gold cloaks from last week came across them and told them about the order and if you ever played the game ‘telephone’ as a kid you know messages can get changed when retold.

    3. As others pointed out it was the very end of the episode. Who knows if Lorch believes her. And if you watch the preview form next week it does look like someone is being tortured

  73. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    HBO’s Video Recap of Episodes 11-13

    (this tale is long and full of errors ;^)

  74. Zach
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,

    People are really rushing to defend their precious show, but you’re right about the whole Lommy thing. I get that they compacted the story, but it was to the scene’s detriment and that’s a fact.

    These kids are going to be DESPERATE to curry favor with their captors in the days to follow – of COURSE they’d betray Gendry! Justify all you want, superfans, but that’s the truth.

  75. JonSnow
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    Love Larry Williams reviews! I read the all of the books after season 1 as to not get spoiled by douche fans but it must be an awesome experience seeing this material for the first time!

  76. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    Zach,

    You guys are making big assumptions about episodes you haven’t even seen yet. The episode ended right after that moment. We don’t know what happened, or what they believed. And people’s instinct is usually to not speak up in those situations, as others have noted. Now they most likely would talk under torture if questioned about it. We’ll see what happens.

  77. Lex
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

    Lommy-gate doesn’t bother me much. Seems like a pretty minor “plot hole”, tbh.

  78. john
    Posted April 16, 2012 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,

    i have a perfect solution for ya, stop watching. Its not a big deal holy shit

  79. WinterComing
    Posted April 17, 2012 at 12:58 am | Permalink

    The more I watch Larry Williams reviews the more I feel that this isn’t the show for him. He seems really down at the end.

  80. Ravens2o
    Posted April 17, 2012 at 1:35 am | Permalink

    I agree with the other poster that this probably just isn’t the series for Larry Williams. He was extremely down about Ned Stark last year (which is understandable) and just generally was angry that so many questionable characters remained while Ned died. Yet this is a story where honor and morality have little correlation with survival. More problematic for him is that I remember him not liking the scenes between Varys and Littlefinger, because those were just political jousts and not actual action. Of course politics is a huge part of the story.

    Larry strikes me as the kind of viewer (my dad was the same way) who came into this expecting more of a classical fantasy that focuses on the journey of a few characters…instead, as he’s seeing this season, this is a story of a vast fully-realized world with competing factions, thousands of characters, and a narrative that serves more as a meditation on the nature of power than a traditional good vs. evil plotline. I love it…but it’s definitely not for everyone.

  81. Ravens2o
    Posted April 17, 2012 at 1:52 am | Permalink

    I am glad that WinterIsComing.net included the excellent Andy Greenwald from Grantland.com in the list of reviews. Greenwald usually does a terrific job of breaking down shows and in my opinion is one of the best critics out there. His take on Game of Thrones is especially interesting because he came into last season as a serious skeptic and became a believer as the series unfolded.

    He also has an excellent weekly (Tuesday) podcast on Grantland.com called the Hollywood Prospectus in which he spends about 15 minutes discussing Game of Thrones at the beginning of each podcast.

  82. Lex
    Posted April 17, 2012 at 2:02 am | Permalink

    WinterComing:
    The more I watch Larry Williams reviews the more Ifeel that this isn’t the show for him. He seems really down at the end.

    I don’t know, he said he thought it was a really good episode overall…

    And there were some really funny moments in there (particularly when he was discussing Balon Greyjoy). And even when he gets depressed, it’s still funny (“I don’t know, I might have to cheer myself up after this. I might have to go watch The Big Lebowski. That always makes me laugh.”)

    But yeah, he does seem to get very down/depressed/upset when characters get killed off. I’m really curious how he’ll react to Renly’s demise. I think he’ll be pretty upset. I expect a somewhat pissed off review next week, or at least a good rant.

    And I’ve noticed that he doesn’t seem happy with the expansion/explosion of the plot. He says the whole conflict just “doesn’t make sense” (i.e. all the warring factions, unwilling to negotiate or make alliance with each other). But that’s really the whole point of the story. It’s not your typical 2-sided conflict. Considering how often Larry says he hates cliches, you’d think he’d be more appreciative of the original and unpredictable nature of the show. But it might be that, in the end, it’s just too grim for him.

  83. Ax0r
    Posted April 17, 2012 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,

    I totally get where you’re coming from with your plot hole. Some people have told you not to worry, some have said you’re overreacting, etc.
    Most viewers won’t think about the series enough to really identify it as a plot hole. The true test will come from the unspoiled thread on television without pity. If those guys bring up this as a potential plot hole, either this week, or after the next episode we see Arya, then I think we could all agree you have a point. Those guys leave no stone unturned.

    That being said, I think I have a solution for you. It’s a little contrived, because as you say, we don’t have explicit evidence of this in the show, but it’s believable. Minor (and i mean minor – just protecting any unsiled who are reading these comments) spoilers for this plot thread below:
    step 1: Joffrey orders killing of bastards. Littlefinger says “here, let me help you with that.”
    Step 2: Littlefinger gives Janos Slynt a list of names – either of people to be killed, or people who know the kids to be killed.
    Step 3: Orders go out to individual units to kill the bastards. The fact that they have black hair is never mentioned to the individual goldcloaks – why would it be, they have names. Even if accompanying descriptions are given, each individual unit only kills one or two, so none of the grunts make a connection that black hair is a unifying characteristic.
    Step 4: unit assigned to kill Gendry find that he’s not there. They torture Tobho Mott, find out his name is Gendry (if they didn’t already know), and that he has a bulls head helmet.
    Step 5: The most junior guys in the goldcloaks get assigned to chase down the NW group – “hey, new guys. You go ride a horse for days a time, sleep under a bush and wipe your ass with leaves, while I help myself to littlefinger’s wares”. New guys are told they’re looking for Gendry, and he has a bulls head helmet (which is all they announce to the NW group when they find them). Nobody bothers to give them a description, or even that he’s a smith.
    Step 6: Dismayed at being turned away, new guys ride back toward KL. On the way they run across Lorch and his band of merry men. Knowing that he’s sworn to the lannisters, they figure this might be an easy way to get the job done so they can go home. Maybe they promise Lorch that they’ll tell Joffrey or Cersei that Lorch helped them.
    Step 7: Lorch and co show up, Yoren and Lommy are killed. Lommy is labelled as Gendry. Important thing to note here is that most of the men in this scene are lannisters, not goldcloaks. They work for Lorch, and don’t really care about the goldcloaks’ orders.
    Step 8: Lorch says “there you go, got him. Take the helmet as proof.” New goldcloaks say “awesome, now we can go home.” Goldcloaks run off back to KL, job done. Lorch takes all the captives for the Tickler or Gregor or whoever.
    Step 9 (wherein I finally address your problem): One of the NW recruits blabs to Lorch that the big guy over there? He’s the real Gendry. Maybe Lorch doesn’t give a shit – the goldcloaks are already putting in a good word to the king, and it’s not his problem – plot hole filled. Maybe Lorch goes over to Gendry, who admits that yes, the bulls helmet was his, he made it himself. Lorch is impressed, recognises a smith as valuable, doesn’t kill him – plot hole filled.

    Ive spelled it out step by step, which makes it look longer than it really is. I don’t think that any of these steps are unbelievable. Basically just distancing the people who know about Gendry from the people who now have him captive.

  84. Ax0r
    Posted April 17, 2012 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    This was my original comment, just wanted to separate it from my response to jacopo…

    Just read Myles McNutts review – insightful as usual, but something at the end struck me:
    Has anyone noticed how often people complain about a particular special effect being distracting (McNutt mentions the green screen behind Renly and Margaery), when it’s not a special effect at all, and what they’re complaining about is actually shot on location and caught in camera? Nobody complains that the dragons don’t look real enough, but that cliff face behind Renly that is totally actually there? Looks fake, man.

  85. purplejilly
    Posted April 17, 2012 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    WinterComing: The more I watch Larry Williams reviews the more I feel that this isn’t the show for him. He seems really down at the end.

    I know what you mean. I feel for Larry. I’m sort of the same way. I think ASOIAF is not really for me, either, but it’s too late now. If I had known when I was starting how violent it would be, how many ppl would die, how tragic it is, and how no one ever really seems to be happy or get a break, I would probably not have read it. My husband had read it, and was urging me to read it because HBO was making a pilot and he was reading all about it here. I came to him after Bran got pushed out the window, and told him I didn’t think I was going to like it. He told me to keep reading, it gets better. So I did. And while it’s a great story, it truly is very dark and depressing, and hard to take. But now I’m stuck, I’ve read so much, and invested so much, I have to keep reading, and keep watching. Now I’ve reached the point where I hope GRRM takes a long time to write the rest of the books, because I almost don’t want to know what happens, because I know it’s not going to be good. I want Arya to live a happy life with Gendry, and be the strong, tomboyish mom of a new bunch of Starks, in a rebuilt Winterfell. I want Brienne to get with Jaime. I want Dany to take the iron throne and marry Jon Snow. Probably none of this is going to happen. Sob. I worry about non-book readers and what’s going to happen as the Seasons mount along with the body count and tally of horrible things, and I worry about whether it will turn off viewers. I guess we will find out!

  86. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 17, 2012 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    It’s funny given my reactions of others including close friends of mine regarding GOT/A Song of Ice and Fire….most of these people are pretty open minded. They like things unpredictable, like Larry Williams they despise cliche and yet when this series does exactly that, being itself a grim, dark fantasy with no clear lines of good and evil and no epic quest, in the end, they want Lord of the Rings. It stems from this mentality that fantasy should be escapist entertainment. Yet people I know who are having trouble with GoT love series just as complicated like Deadwood, Rome and The Wire because those shows are based on actual events, about real life. Whereas try to depict the same kind of realism in a fantasy epic you get the complete opposite reaction.

    It’s the ASOIAF Catch 22. Even amongst the most literary viewers, somewhere in the back of their mind people are saying “this is a fantasy this is not supposed to happen…”

  87. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 17, 2012 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Ax0r,

    I’ve seen that episode on several feeds, and one time that background looked fake and one time it looked real. Pitfalls of digital photography I guess?

  88. andrea
    Posted April 17, 2012 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    Ax0r,

    I’m almost blind for trying to find the cgi in that shot.

  89. Suzaku
    Posted April 17, 2012 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Loved Grantland’s recap/review.

    Last week I saw so many critics desperately searching for a “theme” in episode 12 that they could make their review revolve around, and nobody came up with anything valid or insightful. I got the impression that “find the theme of the episode and try to tie everr scene back into it” must be one of the first things they teach TV critics.

    It simply doesn’t work for Thrones, and I’m sure many other shows. The scenes in these episodes are drawn from a novel, in roughly chronological order, with little intentional thematic linking, apart from where it suits cinematography. The thematic links come into play when viewing the season as a whole, or the series as a whole.

  90. Mimsy
    Posted April 17, 2012 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    The reason I enjoy Larry’s recaps so much is because he is so INVOLVED. It seems like he’s the kind of viewer that really pays attention and wants to be sucked into the world that’s he’s watching. Yes, he’ll be depressed.. who wouldn’t? To me, Larry, is the perfect GOT viewer. He’ll go through the ups and downs just like the readers did.

    I remember watching Ned’s execution and wanting someone to sew his head back on.. thinking he would be okay. Unfortunately, the 5 second rule doesn’t apply to beheadings. lol Reason totally flew out the window!

    As bad as things get, the overall story has enough draw to keep you coming back for more.

  91. purplejilly
    Posted April 17, 2012 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    And I was watching Larry, and he was totally digging Brienne, then he got to the part where he says “PLEASE PLEASE don’t let her have a crush on Renly.” Poor Larry. GRRM says your dreams and hopes are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. :P

  92. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 18, 2012 at 3:56 am | Permalink

    I didn’t like the episode. I’m not liking the second season much, either. I hated Shae, I hated even more Yara and I don’t like what they doing with Cersei, Littlefinger, Theon…they making some characters more likeable and some others more hateful. Why?

    What’s the thing we love more about the books? The greys…that the characters are not black and white. The subtlety. We are losing that

    They are “un-greying” the greys.

  93. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 18, 2012 at 5:10 am | Permalink

    Drew:
    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,

    If Tropxe’s comment didnt make it clear read mine…

    Lommy was wearing the Bulls head helmet

    Arya said, after Lommy’s death, that Lommy was Gendry

    Nobody in their right mind would try to counter that claim because both arya and anyone that spoke up would be subject to scrutiny, and plus arya has the stronger claim.. Lommy had the helmet with him.

    The goldcloaks were looking for an armours apprentice with a bulls head helm. Lommy could pass for that even if he didnt have big arms, plus the gold cloaks, and Joffery for that matter dont know that all of robert’s bastards were ‘black of hair’

    Anyone stupid enough to speak up, would most likely be killed, as would arya, as would gendry. Its purely logically as to why no one would speak up after Arya declared Lommy as Gendry
    A

    Uh, you’re kidding right? The plot-hole is obvious. I just choose to ignore it and pretend it happened like in the book. Is not as game-changing as other aspects of the adaptation

  94. Knurk
    Posted April 18, 2012 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    I don’t agree at all. They made Theon and Cersei even more grey in the show if you think it through. I don’t know what their plan is with Littlefinger, but he was never a ‘grey’ character in the books in my eyes. Yara needs more screentime before I can decide if they have fucked up that character.

  95. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 18, 2012 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    Knurk:
    Pau Soriano,

    I don’t agree at all. They made Theon and Cersei even more grey in the show if you think it through. I don’t know what their plan is with Littlefinger, but he was never a ‘grey’ character in the books in my eyes. Yara needs more screentime before I can decide if they have fucked up that character.

    Yeah, I guess you’re right there, I was thinking the same while I was writing it…but somehow it just doesn’t feel right. They are changing some characters personalities to further an agenda wich I’m not sure what it is. I guess they believe it’s good for the show, maybe making 2 characters like Theon and Cersei (that have a lot of weight in the series) more likeable it’s better, so people have an easier time relating to them?

    The 2 changes I’m hating the most are Yara and Shae though. Asha was my favourite Greyjoy by far in the books, and I despised Theon (how he thought, the things he did) throughout ACOK and ASOS…but in the show I end up cheering for him wtf! He is the poor conflicted soul and his sister is just an angry bitch.

    Shae is just painful to watch, all that whinning…Sansa is the one we are cheering for here (while in the books was the oposite, at least at the beginning of ACOK)

    Seems like the showrunners are manipulating us so we view some characters in a certain way…or maybe is just me

    PS: For me Littlefinger was quite grey in the books…a bit like Jamie tbh. I guess that is the beauty of the books, every reader has a different take on each character, and maybe that is a thing that is harder to achieve on tv….


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