Recap Round-up: Garden of Bones
By Ours is the Fury on in Press.

Here are some of the notable recaps and reviews of the fourth episode of Game of Thrones‘s second season:

Book Readers
Axechucker – TVEquals
Sean T. Collins – Rolling Stone
Alyssa Rosenberg – ThinkProgress
James Poniewozik – Time
Maureen Ryan – The Huffington Post
Myles McNutt – Cultural Learnings
James Hibberd – Entertainment Weekly
Jenna Busch – Zap2It
Todd VanDerWerff – A.V. Club
Rowan Kaiser – Press Play
Sarah Hughes – The Guardian
Westeros.org

New Viewers
Jenifer D. Braun – NJ Star-Ledger
David Sims – A.V. Club
Larry Williams – OtakuASSEMBLE
Matt Richenthal – TV Fanatic
Alan Sepinwall – HitFix
Brian Juergens – AfterElton
John Kubicek – Buddy TV
Scott Meslow – The Atlantic

HBO also provides recap and “Inside the Episode” videos every week:

Youtube Link for Recap


Inside the Episode- 14 on Youtube


128 Comments

  1. Dee
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    Rowan Kaiser makes some very valid points, despite which – and other personal criticisms I’ve detailed in the recap thread – I still maintain that this episode is by far the best so far, as I really didn’t think much of the first 3 eps this season.

  2. zzzz
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Question: what was the third name Arya recited?

    Joffrey
    Cersei
    3rd name? Littlefinger? Hard to make out.
    The Hound

  3. Chris
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    This is my first post here (longtime lurker), but I would just like to say that these recap roundups are the best! I check them out every week. Thanks for doing this!

  4. Maui
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    zzzz,

    Illyn Payne… The Kings Justice.

  5. STsauga
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    zzzz,

    The 3rd name was Ilyn Payne.

  6. userj
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    Lol what at the Westeros.org review. “talisa” is Jeyne in disguise, not a new character. It’s incredibly obvious why they did this. They wanted her to meet Robb in the context of her camp and the only way that works is if she’s disguised as a commoner.

  7. Tedd
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    Here’s a link to Andy Greenwald’s new viewer recap at Grantland. He heard Xaro Xhoan Daxos as Zarozon Ducksauce, which I like much better.

    http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/48173/game-of-thrones-season-2-episode-4-garden-of-bones

  8. J
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Yeah, I’d be pretty shocked if “Talisa” ends up just being exactly what she said she was in last night’s episode.

  9. lefaisan
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    It seems like a lot of people don’t like the idea of a shadow baby. They’ll probably be pissed off next week.

    I understand the frustration (I was a bit frustrated too the first time I read it), but I hope this won’t cause some viewers to stop watching the show.

  10. Dee
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    userj,

    Wait. So you’re speculating that in the show Lady Jeyne Westerling is actually the Florence Nightingale of Westeros? I really hope you’re wrong, cause that would be the worst thing I could imagine for the Talytha character. I mentioned in the recap thread that watching Talytha with Robb felt like I was watching a scene from the awful movie In Love And War. Well, if they’re going the way you think they’re going, then they might as well have gotten Sandra Bullock to play Jeyne.

  11. Andy Gavin
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    This week is pure tension and creep. Plus, lots of new developments. Torture seems a major theme of this episode. Things grow dark. Very dark. And I’m liking it. My full review is here, including what exactly is going on with those rats!

  12. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    If people stuck around after Ned got beheaded. I think they are going to stick around even though a shadow demon came out of Melisandre’s hooha.

    lefaisan,

  13. SillyMammo
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    The shadow demon scene in the book and the show was a big turning point for Melisandre’s character. Up until that point, viewers/readers don’t know if she’s just a charlatan or not. Great reveal by HBO.

    “Born amidst salt and smoke? Is he a ham?” —Renly

  14. Dallavalamp
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    Oh my goodness, this was the best episode by far and I was actually happy to have a break from the Greyjoys.

    Things I LOVED
    1. Arya’s pray. It actually made me well up.
    2. Cat realizing that Littlefinger brought Ned’s bones (but see notes below)
    3. ROOSE BOLTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    4. Tyrion reprimanding Ser Meryn.
    5. Bronn
    6. The way Robb looks at Talisa/Jeyne when she is riding away
    7. Shadow Baby – holy moley!

    Things that I did not like
    1. Littlefinger at Renly’s camp. He said Tyrion wanted Cat to have Ned’s bones. How would Tyrion know where Cat was?
    2. Did Tywin really know Arya was girl? I don’t remember but if this is a stray from the books, I don’t like it.

  15. lefaisan
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Superdeluxe,

    That’s entirely different. Ned loosing is head was “logical”, while a shadow baby just feels like cheating to some of the viewers.

  16. Mike Chair
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    My favorites from the Hibberd recap:

    We meet two red shirt [he strikes out "shirt"] cloak guards in the Lannister army.

    Including (and striking out) the word “shirt” tips the hat to Star Trek, the original series — crew members wearing red shirts on away missions always got killed. (Don’t feel bad if you didn’t get it. You probably got Hibberd’s reference to Hamlet which I had to look up.)

    OT: speaking of tip of the hat, did the shadow baby (at least at first) remind anyone of the Smoke Monster in LOST?

    Notice he [Littlefinger] produced this [The Ned Box] after he attempted the whole “fate has given us another chance” ploy. Otherwise he would have been trying to seduce her literally over her husband’s dead body.

    That was cute.

    A man called the Spice King wants to see her dragons, but that’s the only card she has to play and they’re so vulnerable. She refuses to remove them from her Pier 1 dragon baskets.

    Okay, “Pier 1 dragon baskets” is hilarious because if anyone’s ever been dragged into Pier 1 Imports by his wife he knows they’ve got a gazillion baskets. See.

    Beware. Melisandre’s ladyparts are dark and full of terrors. Is it a boy? A girl? It’s…
    A bouncing baby WTF.

    Love Hibberd.

  17. Bad Dog
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Dallavalamp,

    Tywin didn’t even notice Arya in the book.

  18. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Dallavalamp: 2. Did Tywin really know Arya was girl? I don’t remember but if this is a stray from the books, I don’t like it.

    In the books, they don’t have a scene where they specifically reveal Arya’s gender. It’s simply said in her POV chapter that her secret had been taken from her after Roose’s men took over and I think, she had to pee or whatever eventually and she had no privacy.
    I actually like the change because it underlines how brilliant Tywin is. They had to move Roose over to Robb’s camp, so it makes sense to bring Tywin is to tidy up the timelines. I would’ve liked to see Roose and Arya scenes, but it’s one of those changes that I don’t know how they could’ve avoided.

    Unrelated spec:
    Because they removed Weese, and we have this Weasel now, that removes Weese from Arya’s prayer list. She may add him of course but after last night’s episode, I was thinking:
    They make a point of Arya adding Polliver to the list when she hears his name. And he is the one who killed Lommy, so I found myself wondering if he might be one of the first two names Arya has Jaqen take care of.

  19. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Dee,

    Because all Sandra Bullock comedies end with her pregnant and afraid after her husband, her mother-in-law and the majority of his bannermen are slaughtered at a wedding…LOL!
    I see your point though, I just had to make this sarcastic comment because well…I had to. I disagree with your negativity to this season thus far, but the world would be boring if we all agreed on everything. :-)

  20. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    lefaisan,

    Yeah the phrase “jump the shark” has been mentioned. Hopefully they will see that the shadow baby was a one time deal next episode.

  21. Dallavalamp
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Bad Dog,

    I’m sorry, I have book amnesia about that. So, yes, I don’t like that.

  22. Meg
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Larry is back in fine form this week in his review. He seems very entertained! Which is surprising because this episode was the darkest yet.

    Can I just say that this episode has made me deeply question which sexy bastard I’m loyal to: Gendry or Jon? I never even considered Gendry before, but he’s all hot and stuff now. What’s a girl to do?

  23. Paco
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    One of my coworkers that hasnt read the books was confused with the whole shadow baby thing. He just didnt understand if that was the son that Mel promised to Stannis lol he kept saying “She promised him a son! and all of a sudden hes okay with some shadow mist being his heir”. I thought it was pretty funny.

  24. Dee
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    For sarcasm to work, it needs to be on the money. Although In Love And War starred Sandra Bullock it was not a rom-com, it’s a tragic love story set in WWI where she played… wait for it.. a nurse in a frontline army hospital. A really bad movie though, so I don’t blame you for not knowing it.

  25. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    This makes me a horrible person but after the last review from Larry, when he seemed so depressed, all I could think was, “Congrats, Larry, on your sadness and hopelessness! You’re really one of the ASOIAF fandom now.”

  26. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Dee,

    Touche and ouch! Love and War… wasn’t that the one about Hemingway? Chris O’ Donnell right? Yeah that was terrible.

    I guess I only liked Bullock in “Speed” and assumed the rest of her fluff was romantic comedies. I don’t think I feel too bad about being “pwned” regarding my complete ignorance with her filmography.

    Peace.

  27. fuelpagan
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    A couple of weeks ago I pointed out the plot hole caused by having Ned’s letter reach Stannis about the incest between Jaime and Cersei. Where in the books Stannis knew about Jaime and Cersei from his own investigation. No one outside of King’s Landing knew Ned was supporting Stannis as the rightful heir.

    I find it interesting that Mo Ryan is now asking questions about why Robb and Stannis don’t join forces since Ned supported Stannis. While I’m glad the writers are not hiding from the change and having lines from Stannis rising the questions this change from the books caused. It appears the response is simply things moved to far to go back once the truth was known, and Renly had the larger army.

    I’m not saying this was a bad move, and I understand why it was changed. I think it could have been handled cleaner. This not only hurt the story by introducing a plot issue, but also the characterazitions of both Stannis and Robb.

    Just pointing it out because I find it interesting.

  28. Mike Chair
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Meg: Larry is back in fine form this week in his review. He seems very entertained! Which is surprising because this episode was the darkest yet.

    Yes. What I loved about Larry’s recap was that he began by making two very astute and positive observations: twice in this episode, Starks were rescued/aided/helped by Lannisters — Sansa by Tyrion and Arya by Tywin.

  29. Jordan Healey
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    Dee,

    +1 again. Although I haven’t really liked any of the episodes so far.

  30. Stan
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    Most of the reviewers book readers?.. surprising.

  31. JamesL
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    A lot of WTF reactions to the shadow birth, not all of them in a good way. Maybe it would have been better to hold back a little with that scene and imply the birth instead of showing it come out like that. I think the biggest issue with that part of the episode is not showing what happens after the birth. Showing it slice Renly’s throat open would have been a much better conclusion to the episode than just ending with some shadow monster coming out of her vagina and nonreaders don’t really know what the purpose of it is and I’m sure most nonreaders probably think this shadow monster guy is going to be a continued presence on this show and not a one time thing. For me, despite some questionable moments of dialogue and some scenes falling flat(Dany arrival in Qarth) this was by far the most exciting and suspenseful hour the show has had this season.

  32. All_Men_Must_Post
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    From my review on my site:
    Where there’s smoke… I guess I could start with the shadow (smoke?) monster from Melisandre’s belly but I think I’ll start with the brutality found in Westeros. Sean Collins has a great review on this episode drawing obvious (and not so obvious) allusions to American Psycho. Maybe we’re not exactly in Bateman territory yet with Joffrey’s Westerosi Psycho, but I do think an even more accurate comparison may be Platoon, which tells us about the collective horrors we find in war and we find in ourselves in wartime. While Robb isn’t really the protagonist like Charlie Sheen’s Taylor, Robb does play the role of the viewer in his perspective on war. Four of five stars.

    What I liked:
    1. That was a threat. See the difference? We might as well rename this series into Peter Dinklage’s Emmy reel. From his rescue of Sansa to the corruption of Lancel, Tyrion has demonstrated that he can equally play the game of thrones without losing who he is. If he were a D&D character, I think he rolls a chaotic good. Too geeky?

    2. A naked man has few secrets, a flayed man none. Lord Roose Bolton is from the North, but don’t let Robb Stark’s honor hide you from the truth: the North is just as ruthless as the South in the war. While reading the books, I had to look up what being “flayed” meant. Suffice to say, I was a bit disgusted. I loved this little cameo by Lord Bolton (well casted by the way). It was a soft reminder that Robb is not yet willing to do the horrible things that may be necessary to win this war. As Roose puts it: “The high road’s very pretty but I doubt you can march your army on it.”

    3. Tywin Lannister. Charles Dance really owns this character. I always enjoyed Tywin’s character in the books because he appeared always in control, even when he wasn’t. With a departure from the books, Tywin’s inadvertent rescue of Gendry and Arya was well-done for editing purposes, but it also crystallizes Tywin’s character. Tywin is not shy about cruelty. He was Hand of the King when his son slayed the mad king and then he ordered his soldiers to kill the Targaryen children (including the monstrous Mountain’s rape-murder of Elia of Dorne). But that was a calculation. The Targaryens are a threat, whereas the little orphan girl-boy Arry or dark-haired Smith are not… Maybe he’s not as smart as he thinks he is.

    4. Could you hit her? I struggled with this scene as I watched it. I wasn’t sure if the scene was excessive, the way the prior sexposition scenes were. Then I cringed when he pulled the ankler-ed scepter. I wasn’t sure what he intended and that was the point. Sure, the scene doesn’t tell us something about Joffrey that we don’t already know—he is a cruel, evil boy. But it does draw an interesting comparison to Sansa’s mistreatment of Shae last week. In both instances, the underclass have no protection from the cruel whims of the rich and powerful. Sansa lashes out at Shae because she has no other outlet. Similarly, when Joffrey is publicly reprimanded by his uncle, he takes his insecurities out on Ros and her friend.

    What I didn’t like:
    1. Mother of (what?) Dragons. I loved the CGI on Qarth but I felt the whole Qarth scene was two minutes too long with very little pay-off. I get this is a show with limited budget but it’s been forever since we’ve seen a CGI dragon. Hopefully, we get more of Daenerys in the following weeks. She’s by far one of my favorite characters in the books.

    There were a few other things I liked in this episode that didn’t make it into the blog: Cat and Littlefinger’s conversation, Is he a ham?, the CGI on Harrenhal…

  33. Dee
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Meg,

    You should watch Joe Dempsey in The Fades (A fantastic show, btw), that should seal the answer for you. :) Margaery is in it too.

  34. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Stan,

    Overwhelmingly so. I have a difficult time finding any reviews from people who haven’t read at least first couple books. Game of Thrones is so popular now that people who hadn’t read them last season, they have gone and read them between seasons.

  35. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Seriously people, all the worry about people “jumping ship” because of the shadow baby is just stupid. It’s not like people aren’t exposed to fantastical elements all the time in movies and television; it just came as a shock because of how well-done this series is, and how real it all feels (even with dragons and zombies) most of the time. The “WTF” reactions, both good and bad, won’t make any difference come next Sunday seeing as those kind of responses usually indicate that that person is already invested in the show.

  36. Josh
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    I don’t agree with much of what Rowan says but I do agree that they should have set up the Stannis/Renly scene better and should have kept in Catlynn’s line about the only one lifting a sword is her son. It makes her less of a bystander and more of a diplomat working to urge these men against the Lannister’s.

  37. dizzy_34
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets: Seriously people, all the worry about people “jumping ship” because of the shadow baby is just stupid. It’s not like people aren’t exposed to fantastical elements all the time in movies and television; it just came as a shock because of how well-done this series is, and how real it all feels (even with dragons and zombies) most of the time. The “WTF” reactions, both good and bad, won’t make any difference come next Sunday seeing as those kind of responses usually indicate that that person is already invested in the show.

    I agree. However they way the book handled the shadow babies was a bit better in my opinion. I found the Renly death just came out of nowhere and was really a “WTF just happened” moment.
    That said, if someone doesn’t want to tune in to see what the hell that thing is/was, then who wants them watching this show?

  38. Varamyr Fourskins
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    I honestly believe by the time everything is all said and done, a majority of book readers AND viewers will HATE ASOIAF. Why, you might ask? Because, if I’m correct (which I’m probably not, so don’t get too worked up), the story will play out much differently than most people expect it to and/or want it to. For some, it will be like a revelation, but for others, it will be the most maddening thing they’ve ever experienced in TV or literature.

    All I’ll say is this… Renly’s line about the ham wasn’t a joke.

  39. dizzy_34
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    Varamyr Fourskins,

    I get what you’re saying, but isn’t the refreshing thing about ASOIF is that you don’t know how it’s going to turn out? At least it is to me.

  40. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    Varamyr Fourskins,

    So people are going to end up hating it for the exact reason they liked it in the first place? I’m thinking it will be a small, but very vocal, minority of the fans who feel this way.

  41. Critical Geek
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    Hey WIC, can you perhaps put the non book reader reviews before the break and the book reader reviews after?

  42. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    The morons who say that the shadow baby scene is jumping the shark clearly have to realise that this is a fantasy show after all and more supernatural things are going to occur as time goes by . I really don’t care for them or their stupid opinions .

  43. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    I think this shadow creature that seems to be so polarizing will result in series high ratings for next week’s episode. I thought the scene was handled very well. The episode as a whole was below episode 3 and on par with the 2nd episode of this season. Placed against the first 4 episodes of last season, I think this season has had a better start.

  44. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    I do laugh at some people using the term ‘jumped the shark’. It is an overused and misunderstood phrase. It’s safe to say that those using it have no clue what they are talking about.

  45. From Chaos
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    From looking around online today the only people complaining about this episode are book purists who are in love with the Reeds, the Tullys, and peaches. All of the non book readers thought this was the best episode of the season.

  46. Khal Dorko
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    The Washington Post recapper admits that she didn’t have the stomach to watch several of the scenes, which really doesn’t make her much of a recapper…..

  47. Matthew Sherrick
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    zzzz,

    Sir Illyn (Payne)

  48. Khal Dorko
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    From Chaos,

    I saw that too. This seems to be playing much better among the non-readers which is actually better in the long run. Sure we’d like to have the story match the books but I also have grown fond of the changes, which in many cases fleshes out parts of the books

  49. fafhrd
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Roose Bolton joins Dolorous Edd and H’ghar in the kettle of fan favorites turned into disheveled guys mumbling in the background.

  50. Matthew Sherrick
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    If people have a problem with the shadowman/creature they’re going to have bigger problems later on because the series only gets more fantastical from here on. I thought the scene was a fair portrayal from the book but you do miss the WTF factor from Renly’s death. Now you know what’s coming.

    Loved Harrenhall. Way more evil looking than I imagined it.

    Hated the new Mountain. He doesn’t look half as tough as his brother.

  51. Chris
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone wish that the Shadow Baby CGI could have been a little less… well… CGI?
    I thought the swirly smoking shadowyness called a little more attention to itself than necessary. Something a little more subtle might have left Davos some room to be freaked out but still saying “what the hell was that?” What we got really bonked him, and us, over the head.
    For digital shadows, there was a fantastic treatment in “Vanishing on 7th Street.” You could almost believe they were really shadows on the wall…. with creepy hands reaching out for you.
    Now the gross, scary, face as the shadow baby was screaming at its “birth,” that was pretty cool. Must admit.

  52. ravens20
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    From Chaos,

    It seems that book readers are far more critical than their non-reader counterparts. Part of me understands this: they have expectations in place and no restraints on their imagination. But this is an adaptation that – due to budget restraints, limited time, and change in medium – will inevitably differ from the source material. That isn’t to say that all of those changes have been good, and indeed some have been bad. But as someone who has read all five books, I increasingly find myself only reading the reviews of new viewers, who judge the series as a TV show (the acting, the filming, the general plot) instead of how well it adapts the books. To me, it isn’t a valid criticism of a TV episode to say that it didn’t include a minor detail or that a character looked different in the books. After all, the series in general captures the tone of the books, while delivering the stories and characters that actually matter to the plot at large (frankly it’s one of the most faithful adaptations ever made). That’s why critics like Sepinwall and Greenwald appeal to me: they are looking at this series for its artistic worth as a TV series, not basing their approval/disapproval on how accurately Martin’s words are transcribed.

  53. Meg
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    haha Westeros.org is spot on about that “Jeyne”/Robb scene. It is a right out of a page of ER or Grey’s. Vanessa Taylor should have read GRRM’s quote about what happens to the sassy serving girl who talks back to the proud prince. He said that the tendency of medieval fantasy to rely on such unlikely relationships without threat or danger greatly irritated him.

  54. fafhrd
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    You’d think her accent would clue Robb in. Maybe it was supposed to be a joke.

  55. Carey Tran
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    What happens every time with this show is that after a shocking event that has a certain segment up in arms and threatening to quit watching, the ratings will spike up. What happened after Lady was killed in Season 1, Episode 2? The ratings jumped from 2.2 million to 2.4. What happened after Ned was killed in Season 1, Episode 9? The ratings jumped from 2.7 million to 3.0. If the ratings do not jump up markedly between Episodes 4 and 5 of this season, I will eat my hat.

    For every viewer that the show loses when these events occur, two or three new viewers attracted by the hype will take their place. And most of the ones threatening to quit don’t carry out their threat anyway.

  56. Shinyteapot
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    I rather like these non-reader recaps (don’t think this week’s is on the list yet) http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2012/04/game_of_thrones_recap_season_t_2.html

  57. Josh
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    Meg:
    haha Westeros.org is spot on about that “Jeyne”/Robb scene. It is a right out of a page of ER or Grey’s. Vanessa Taylor should have read GRRM’s quote about what happens to the sassy serving girl who talks back to the proud prince. He said that the tendency of medieval fantasy to rely on such unlikely relationships without threat or danger greatly irritated him.

    Haha funny how I thought about that too. When she smarted back to Bolton I was like “Um, I’m surprised she hasn’t been skinned alive at this point”..

    LIke I said before, I’m not a fan of the change…

  58. Charlotte
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    How can anyone feel the shadow baby is jumping the shark? The very first scene of the entire series is the White Walkers. If you haven’t figured out there’s a fantasy element by now, you’re a moron.

  59. fafhrd
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Charlotte,

    After Maester Luwin’s comments, it’s basically a loaded gun. It has to be used. As you say, to expect otherwise is foolish.

  60. Superdeluxe
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Damn, We have some book readers that really are being quite horrible fans right now..They are tweeting spoilers to journalists who are covering Game of Thrones, but have not yet read the books.

    Andy Greenwald ‏ @andygreenwald

    Congrats to @RomanP11 for winning the “most obnoxious Game Of Thrones fan” award! Your knowledge is def more important than my enjoyment.

    Way to totally kill the good vibes that we’ve been getting from the media.

  61. Solar
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Josh,

    If Robb wasn’t standing there our boy Roose would have had a new cloak.

  62. Richard
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Matthew Sherrick: If people have a problem with the shadowman/creature they’re going to have bigger problems later on because the series only gets more fantastical from here on. I thought the scene was a fair portrayal from the book but you do miss the WTF factor from Renly’s death. Now you know what’s coming.Loved Harrenhall. Way more evil looking than I imagined it.Hated the new Mountain. He doesn’t look half as tough as his brother.

    The new Mountain reminded me of The Knights Who Say “Ni!”

  63. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: lefaisan, Yeah the phrase “jump the shark” has been mentioned. Hopefully they will see that the shadow baby was a one time deal next episode.

    I’m so sick of people using that phrase, especially when it’s used as inaccurately as this.

  64. Richard
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    Charlotte: How can anyone feel the shadow baby is jumping the shark? The very first scene of the entire series is the White Walkers. If you haven’t figured out there’s a fantasy element by now, you’re a moron.

    Plus the White Walker spawned “zombies”, the horse sacrificing/death magic going on in the tent that ended up killing Dany’s unborn child and lobotomizing Drogo. And of course whatever was involved in rebirthing Dany and hatching the dragons. (I’m a non-book reader)

  65. funlight
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu: The morons who say that the shadow baby scene is jumping the shark clearly have to realise that this is a fantasy show after all and more supernatural things are going to occur as time goes by . I really don’t care for them or their stupid opinions .

    You forget that it wasn’t the fantasy elements that brought about many of the viewers. In my case I had to convince all my friends and family that GoT wasn’t a fantasy show before they gave the first episode a chance. The appearance of the dragons was extremely well done (in terms of build-up) and therefore worked splendidly. Murderous shadows and talking doors might be received differently. I should add, though, that I am one of those who was annoyed when these things appeared in the books, but I still kept reading. The fantastical elements are well handled in the books, partly because you are often left confused, just like the characters. If GRRM wrote “and then he became a wolf” it would be a completely different thing, and I would probably stop reading.

  66. ThePinkDragon
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Why are giant wolves, dragons, blood magic, zombies and zombie-makers okay, but not shadow babies?

    Like, do people just block out certain parts of the show, or do they think that direwolves, psychic dreams and semi-conscious horsemen brought back from death really existed back in The Day?

    This ain’t the fuckin’ Tudors, folks.

  67. Charlotte
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    haha, good lord, I almost forgot about the dragons and hundreds of other fantastical elements. Derp.

  68. Pink Dragon
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    funlight: In my case I had to convince all my friends and family that GoT wasn’t a fantasy show before they gave the first episode a chance.

    I completely apologize if I come off as rude here, but I don’t think that was the right thing to do.

    Regardless of whether it’s low or high fantasy, it’s fantasy.

  69. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets: Seriously people, all the worry about people “jumping ship” because of the shadow baby is just stupid. It’s not like people aren’t exposed to fantastical elements all the time in movies and television; it just came as a shock because of how well-done this series is, and how real it all feels (even with dragons and zombies) most of the time. The “WTF” reactions, both good and bad, won’t make any difference come next Sunday seeing as those kind of responses usually indicate that that person is already invested in the show.

    I’m not worried about it, but it is a theme I’m seeing, like “Oh, this is just too much.” And honestly, there’s nothing wrong with that, some people just have a threshold of “magic” that they’re willing to tolerate, and this show is increasingly going to go beyond that, and it will probably lose some viewers. I think that attitude is stupid, myself, but so it goes.

  70. Matthew Sherrick
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    Lmao! Exactly!

  71. Dee
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    Well, I just finished talking to my brother in London. He and his 5 friends, all of whom non-readers, just finished watching Garden Of Bones. The episode didn’t go down as well with them as it did with me. I was surprised to find that they all felt the birth of the shadow baby was jarring, in that it came out of nowhere and made little sense in terms of the story so far.
    They all guessed what the shadow baby was born to do, but none of them really liked the way it came about. My brother dubbed it a Lost moment.

    Personally, I thought the Shadow birth was well done, but now I think perhaps the way it was done in the books, seeing the shadow in action, along with the shock of what occurred and the real repercussions of it, long before we find out what the shadow is and how it came about, might have proven a better method of introducing such a fantastical element.

  72. Shadowcat85
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    Meg,

    Don’t worry, I have the same dilemma!

  73. John
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    Dallavalamp

    Things that I did not like
    1. Littlefinger at Renly’s camp.He said Tyrion wanted Cat to have Ned’s bones.How would Tyrion know where Cat was?
    2. Did Tywin really know Arya wasgirl?I don’t remember but if this is a stray from the books, I don’t like it.

    1. Varys has his little birds everywhere and he told Tyrion where Cat was.
    2. I don’t see a problem here! Tywin is clever enough and is not deceived so easily – I like it!

  74. John
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Dallavalamp:

    Things that I did not like
    1. Littlefinger at Renly’s camp.He said Tyrion wanted Cat to have Ned’s bones.How would Tyrion know where Cat was?
    2. Did Tywin really know Arya wasgirl?I don’t remember but if this is a stray from the books, I don’t like it.

    1. Varys has his little birds everywhere and he told Tyrion where Cat was.
    2. I don’t see a problem here! Tywin is clever enough and is not deceived so easily – I like it!

  75. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    Critical Geek: Hey WIC, can you perhaps put the non book reader reviews before the break and the book reader reviews after?

    Can I ask why? I do this way because it’s how it was done last year, and there are far more book readers than non at WiC (I’m estimating this based on participation in the Book-Readers Discussion versus the New Viewer Recap discussion.)
    The separate types of reviews are clearly labeled so I don’t see a problem with spoilerish foreshadowing in the reviews/recaps.

  76. Dee
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    Westeros has an interview with Richard Madden:
    http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Features/Entry/Interview_with_Richard_Madden
    What I gather from his answer to the Talisa question, and I might be reading too much into it, is that Jeyne is out, and Talisa is an entirely new character.

    Here’s the relevant quote:

    Westeros: I know Talisa is her actual name. Now, I know last season there were a couple of name-changes mid-filming last season, like Rakharo starting as Jhogo. Was she Jeyne at the start of filming, or was her name already changed before cameras started rolling?

    RM: “I think she was something else, but by the time we started shooting it was Talisa. She has a second name which … well, I had fun trying to pronounce that one each day on set. That was a good laugh, trying to pronounce that one. But yeah, you know, there’s going to be changes to the story, but they all come from the essence of the books.”

  77. Suzaku
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    “In my case I had to convince all my friends and family that GoT wasn’t a fantasy show before they gave the first episode a chance.”

    Well, that’s probably not a good way to go about it.

    Anyone who’s currently watching who will start bitching about fantasy elements should probably know right now that the fantasy elements will start becoming more and more prominent as the series progresses.

    The series is always pretty squarely a dark fantasy, and the magic and fantasy elements are typically dark and grim, but they DO become more pronounced as time goes on.

  78. Restore The Day
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

    Greenwald:

    Thank goodness, then, for Gay King Renly, possibly the best character on Game of Thrones, and certainly the merriest. In Westeros, like gym class, wit is something only cultivated by freaks and outcasts — Tyrion being the foremost example — and it tends to be the outward manifestation of deep internal hurt. But regardless of the reasons, Renly’s tart humor is desperately welcome in a show that usually considers the funny bone something you throw to the direwolf to gnaw on between battles.

    Team Renly!!

    And he has seen nothing yet. Think of all the laughter+badassery that character brings in the next book as poor Greenwald is going to double his prozac intake next week!
    He really is the shining peach of the show right now along with Tyrion.

  79. Dreamlife
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

    I really love Larry’s reviews because he isn’t afraid to throw out exactly what he’s thinking. I almost wish I could watch this series wish fresh eyes and not know what’s going to happen. Anyway, I’m to see him at least feeling a little sorry for Sansa this time around. He’s been pretty hard on her. Also, glad the shadow baby didn’t scare him away like it did to some viewers. Personally, I thought it was awesome.

    PS: War of the 5 Kings. I count Joffrey, Robb, Stannis, Renly, Balon, and Mance Rayder…plus Danaerys. I guess the phrase refers to those actually engaging/about to engage in battle, since Mance is beyond the wall and Dany is across the sea.

  80. bon
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    Noone noticed that new ser Gregor has on his cloak combined red of Lannisters and underneath three dogs of House Clegane?

  81. Suzaku
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

    Who Is Jacopo Belbo?,

    Frankly, I think the only problem with TV Littlefinger is that they give him too much screentime. Too many new scenes. I like his new scenes with Varys in the first season. They added some good depth and it was nice to see them dueling verbally. Littlefinger’s new interactions this season have less to offer.

    I don’t think anyone is confused that Stannis needed to screw Melisandre to create the Shade. That was made perfectly evident. She also explained that shadows are the servants of the light, though from what I’ve read, it seems many TV viewers haven’t actually been listening to any of her dialogue, because they don’t seem to know who she is or where she’s from, even though it’s been explained.

    That scene happened the way I remembered it happening in the book, and it seems to me like about the same amount of setup. That said, having already read the book and knowing what was going on, I can’t really speak objectively.

  82. Suzaku
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    Dreamlife: PS: War of the 5 Kings. I count Joffrey, Robb, Stannis, Renly, Balon, and Mance Rayder…plus Danaerys.

    The Five Kings are Joffrey, Robb, Stannis, Renly, and Balon.

    I don’t think it’s been called the War of the Five Kings yet outside of a clip of Tywin from the promos, likely from a scene that takes place after Balon makes his first move.

    If I’m mistaken and they *have* used it already in the show, that’s a pretty glaring oversight.

  83. userj
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    Dan Weiss Whaaaaa??? It’s “unquestionable” that Stannis would make a terrible king?

    CAN YOU BE MORE WRONG?!

    I DONT THINK SO

  84. userj
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    Dee: now I think perhaps the way it was done in the books, seeing the shadow in action, along with the shock of what occurred and the real repercussions of it, long before we find out what the shadow is and how it came about,

    Um, we see the birthing before we see the “repercussions” in the books as well.

  85. The Red Avenger
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    Jump the Shark – when a tv programme has run out of idea’s and resorts to gimmicks such ad the Fonz jumping over a Shark in Happy Days. Just in case you would like to explain it to the dullards who bandy it around like confetti when an episode or instance of a show is a “bit out of the ordinary”. Must admit the X-Files were the first to use it tongue-in-cheek when they used it to wrap up the LoneGunmen story when their own show was cancelled. Apart from that it’s maddening when used incorrectly

  86. Obsidian
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    Don’t like this writing. Talisa is …trite . More like a silly romance novel character than anything else.

    Both Rowan Kaiser and Myles McNutt are right on with their critiques of the dialogue , it really bothered me during the program. I ask again , how many episodes does this writer have..because this definitely makes me really apprehensive about the rest.

    Heck , I would have smacked Talisa..and I’m pretty far removed from a medieval noble.

  87. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    userj: Um, we see the birthing before we see the “repercussions” in the books as well.

    No we don’t, timeline goes:

    -Shadow thing kills Renly
    -Melisandre gives birth to shadow baby under Storm’s End
    -Shadow baby kills Penrose

    They just combined these events all into one, and judging by reactions, it may not have been the wisest move, or at least the way they executed was questionable (personally I think having shadow baby birth and Renly’s death in separate episodes was a mistake).

  88. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    Obsidian: Heck , I would have smacked Talisa..and I’m pretty far removed from a medieval noble.

    To paraphrase Tyrion, “Why, was she starting to make sense?”

  89. Jordan Healey
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:28 pm | Permalink

    Meg,

    That’s exactly what I said in my post in the recap thread

  90. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    Steven Swanson: No we don’t, timeline goes:

    -Shadow thing kills Renly
    -Melisandre gives birth to shadow baby under Storm’s End
    -Shadow baby kills Penrose


    They just combined these events all into one, and judging by reactions, it may not have been the wisest move, or at least the way they executed was questionable (personally I think having shadow baby birth and Renly’s death in separate episodes was a mistake).

    Yeah, this was my problem with the handling of the scene. It should have happened in the same episode as Renly’s death. I would guess most viewers will figure out that thing is meant for Renly. Now they expect his death to happen and the surprise will be gone.

  91. Obsidian
    Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:54 pm | Permalink

    Also…do the warning bells go off when someone talks about being true to the “essence ” of the books , when you’ve just watched a pretty ubeleivable scene in the storyline they’re talking about ?

  92. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    I don’t see what the big deal is about “Talisa”. I don’t even think it is that important for her family to be connected with the Lannisters. Robb broke his wedding pact and that is all that really matters.

  93. Lex
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:07 am | Permalink

    Fun review from Larry this week. I like that he’s trying to relax, stop worrying about recapping everything, and just going with his gut impressions.

  94. corbob10
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:46 am | Permalink

    It’s too bad like half of those “New Viewer” reviews were just a recap with ‘I’m super funny’ comments thrown in.

    Larry’s was really good though.

  95. Jordan Healey
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:51 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    GRRM specifically stated in an interview that he thinks that those types of relationships in medieval fantasy are completely unrealistic (and they are). It’s also very different from his style of romance in the books. Linda from Westeros quoted his style as ‘old romance’.

    As Westeros quoted, the relationship evident in the TV show is just like something you would see out of ER or Grey’s Anatomy.

    I also facepalmed when it appeared in The Borgias, with Lucrezia and the Stableboy.

    Another case where a change that was made is vastly inferior to the text.

  96. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:03 am | Permalink

    corbob10: It’s too bad like half of those “New Viewer” reviews were just a recap with ‘I’m super funny’ comments thrown in.

    Dude, it’s called the Recap Roundup. Nothing wrong with a straightforward recap.

  97. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:07 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury: Dude, it’s called the Recap Roundup. Nothing wrong with a straightforward recap.

    And some of them are pretty damn funny. I think AfterElton is my favorite, nothing like seeing Sassy Gay Friend go to town on Game of Thrones.

  98. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:09 am | Permalink

    Jordan Healey: GRRM specifically stated in an interview that he thinks that those types of relationships in medieval fantasy are completely unrealistic (and they are). It’s also very different from his style of romance in the books. Linda from Westeros quoted his style as ‘old romance’.

    Actually his style is pretty much “no romance”, he does many things well but romance is not one of them. No idea what she means by “old romance”, unless you mean the kind that develops (or not) after you’ve been forced into a relationship with somebody you barely know.

  99. Obsidian
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:38 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    For me, so far, the problem is not so much in her family and it’s connections, but in the way her character is portrayed.. a little deference would be called for ..even if she’s from a foreign noble family..she’d then be incognito and careful of how she addressed people of an apparently more powerful class…( shrug ).. We’ll see where they take it, but it’s off to a rocky start for me.

    Margaery / Littlefinger was equally unbelievable. They would not be equals bandying words ( and such cutesy words ) in Renly’s camp. There, she is Queen. Risky business, talking to a Queen that way… Mind you ,they’ve already had LF being ridiculously transparent when speaking to Cersei… Both conversations seem too careless for LF , but at least he knows his financial wizardry is in demand in KL. He’s just an interloper here , not trusted on any level . His insolence would not likely be tolerated.

  100. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 2:41 am | Permalink

    Obsidian:
    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    For me, so far, the problem is not so much in her family and it’s connections, but in the way her character is portrayed.. a little deference would be called for ..even if she’s from a foreign noble family..she’d then be incognito and careful of how she addressed people of an apparently more powerful class…( shrug ).. We’ll see where they take it, but it’s off to a rocky start for me.

    Margaery / Littlefinger was equally unbelievable. They would not be equals bandying words ( and such cutesy words ) in Renly’s camp. There, she is Queen. Risky business, talking to a Queen that way… Mind you ,they’ve already had LF being ridiculously transparent when speaking to Cersei… Both conversations seem too careless for LF ,but at least he knows his financial wizardry is in demand in KL. He’s just an interloper here , not trusted on any level . His insolence would not likely be tolerated.

    Assuming the show stays with what happens in the books and Littlefinger is the one who makes alliance with the Tyrells after Renly’s death, this conversation can also be seen as foreshadowing that. This wasn’t just Littlefinger being a dick, this was subtle communication about where it was really at. “My husband is my king and my king is my husband.” Doesn’t necessarily need to be Renly.

  101. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 2:48 am | Permalink

    I don’t know that I’ve ever been a part of a fan base so damned negative before.

  102. Bad Dog
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Check out the poll. People are rather enthusiastic about this episode altogether.

    And what’s wrong with fans voicing criticism? I for example like the TV adaption as a whole, but there are some choices made in casting or screenwriting that I don’t approve of.

  103. purplejilly
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    Lex,
    Agreed. Larry’s appeal to me was always that he was casual, giving his first impressions, and half the time stops for a few seconds ’cause his favorite song comes on. My DH and I watch his reviews, and each time he gets stuck on what the name of something is, we are yelling it at our TV screen, like he can hear us through youtube : ) “Harrenhal! Harrenhal!” I like that he just sits in his room with his webcam, and has a conversation with us. That’s what it feels like to me, and I enjoy it as something different from a more ‘professional’ recap.
    I like to hear his speculations on what’s going to happen from the non-book reader point of view, it’s fun. I think the funnest part this week, of all the non-book reader reviews, was the various pronunciations of xaro xhoan daxos, the funniest one I saw somewhere was “Zora Zora Duck Sauce”. Keep up the fresh work, Larry!

  104. purplejilly
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    Steven Swanson,
    Seconding this one, I was spitting coffee on my monitor I was laughing so much at the After Elton review..

  105. Footballfina
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    This episode was definitely brutal, but I thought it needed to be. Overall another fantastic effort :)

    Read my full thoughts here:

    http://www.footballfina.com/2012/04/23/garden-of-bones-episode-4-recap/

    Hope you like it!

  106. Hodor
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    I was the only one who saw Vladimir Putin in the show!?

  107. funlight
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Pink Dragon: I completely apologize if I come off as rude here, but I don’t think that was the right thing to do.

    Regardless of whether it’s low or high fantasy, it’s fantasy.

    Not rude at all. But it got them watching a fantasy show, and some of them started reading the fantasy books. Their preconceived notions about the genre was put to the side and they enjoyed it.

    Suzaku:
    Well, that’s probably not a good way to go about it.

    Anyone who’s currently watching who will start bitching about fantasy elements should probably know right now that the fantasy elements will start becoming more and more prominent as the series progresses.

    The series is always pretty squarely a dark fantasy, and the magic and fantasy elements are typically dark and grim, but they DO become more pronounced as time goes on.

    As mentioned it was needed in order for them to give the show a chance. I told them it was mainly a character-driven drama with very little magic etc. (Dinklage also said that he didn’t “see it as a fantasy, personally”.) They all quickly understood that there was *something* supernatural going on, but at first only in the background (stories and myths which many of the characters didn’t take seriously). This introduction of supernatural elements is very effective in my opinion. It’s not that my friends dislike supernatural stuff, but I wanted them to know that the show wasn’t about wizards fighting each other with magic wands. (It’s actually kind of funny — two friends who refused to watch the show for months are now completely hooked.)

  108. Jordan Healey
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    Steven Swanson,

    I don’t agree with the statement that there is no romance. Although I will say that I believe that most of the relationships present (if not all of them) are meant to be fucked up in one way or another. That’s actually one of the things I find awesome about the series.

    The books do not contain any ‘modern’ romance because George is from a different(earlier) generation to many(most) of us . I’m going to go out on a limb to say that what she means is more ‘chivalrous’ stuff such as courting etc. (even if it is all unrequited or a ruse)

    I believe one of those examples is Robb’s relationship with Jeyne Westerling, despite it being a machination of the Spicers and Tywin Lannister.

  109. Obsidian
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Steven Swanson,

    Yup…It’s not that I don’t understand what they were doing with that LF/ Margaery business ..it’s that I think it was done in a clunky way. That line of Marg.’s ..rings particularly “off” to me .Too clever by half…a bit too proud of itself.

    But D&D write next weeks episode …

  110. Mimsy
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I think the “surprise” (of what the shadow baby is up to) left the building as soon as the thing was born. The cool thing about ending with the shadow baby is that new viewers will anticipate the next episode more than ever. Who knows what the shadow baby can do or if it can be defeated? You and I know the outcome, but the casual viewer still has hope.

  111. KG
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets,

    It’s a bunch of desperately un-cool geeks trying to convince everyone that they are cool and edgy and insightful. Kinda pathetic, really.

  112. LordStarkington
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    Ducksauce is my second favorite “new name” behind the guy who called Salladhor Saan “Salad or Sandwich”

  113. Knurk
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    People complaining about the Talissa/Robb scene and how Gurm hates those kind of relationships probably forgot how utterly stupid the Jeyne/Robb story is in the books.

  114. ravens20
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets: I don’t know that I’ve ever been a part of a fan base so damned negative before.

    I feel the same way.

  115. andrea
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    I don´t understand why everyone thinks that the romance between Talisa and Robb will be a mess or cliché.
    In the books something strong happens to Robb (with this girl) so that he breaks his word to the Frey´s. For him she´s different, clearly.
    I don´t know why you all think she´s too modern (I think someone said that). Wasn´t Joan of Arc modern too? Wasn´t Brienne sort of modern too?
    I would say “wait”. We know nothing… yet.

  116. Obsidian
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    andrea,

    What I took from the book was that Robb’s feelings for the girl aside , if he had not deflowered the daughter of a noble house , he would probably have gone through with the political ( Frey ) marriage .

    But never mind..this is a different ( I think ) character , and I like that some of the female characters are anomalies ( like Brienne , Arya, etc ) But they shouldn’t all be.

  117. andrea
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    Obsidian: if he had not deflowered the daughter of a noble house , he would probably have gone through with the political ( Frey ) marriage .

    oh my unreliable memory. Yes you´re right, I remember now. Well, we´ll see how DD adapt this story. But I was referring especially to her character. I liked her lines.
    I think what she said has not been said yet in the books or series.

  118. fuelpagan
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Obsidian,

    True, but it was Robb’s feelings for Jeyne that made him vulnerable in the first place to her comfort. Now a pretty girl saying, “Sorry for your loss, wanna bone?” might do it for some guys. But I don’t think Robb is one of them.

  119. Yoshi
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    The term jump the shark has jumped the shark. So let’s stop using it.

  120. HumMis1349
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 1:27 am | Permalink

    andrea,

    What I’m concerned about is whether the changes made to the Robb romance storyline might make Robb’s breaking word with the Freys seem less forgivable. I should hope such changes that are made would work in the opposite direction, since TV Robb is older than in the books, so youthful naivete is less of an excuse.

  121. Chris
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    The Red Avenger,

    “Jump the Shark” indeed! Actually, the only major transition the Shadow Baby represented was the show finally relaxing its hard supression of the magic from the books. The magic was always there. At first it was very subtle in the books and the show made it even more so. But you can only hide a fundamental part of the story for so long and D&D sure let it loose this time. Now that we’ve crossed the threshold, can we please see more wolf dreams. Bran? Jon? ARYA? I’d LOVE to see Nymeria lunch on the search party hunting for Arya and Gendry after their escape from Harrenhall.
    Incidentally, there was a great “jump the shark” moment in “House.” While fiddling around on his desk, House (Hugh Laurie) actually jumps a toy motorcyclist over a toy shark.

  122. andrea
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    HumMis1349,

    That´s the question. I don´t understand how it would change the story with what we know so far (in the show). It will end where we know it will end, anyway. Some people talk about it as if it were love at first sight or some cheesy thing like that. I don´t see it. She caught his attention, that´s all. She speaks her mind, says true things. That´s cheesy?
    I think what happens here is that in the book this story is told by a third party but on tv we see it develop. Not knowing if her name is fake or not, if she´s from Volantis, or noble or not… don´t get how that could be a great change to Robb´s storyline or make him less forgivable. But that´s just me. I like her.

  123. Faust
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    zzzz,

    zzzz,

    Ilyn Payne I think

  124. Joshua Taylor
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

    Chris,

    First of all I apolgize profusely to all for dare using the phrase “jump the shark” even though I was paraphrasing what I read on the TWOP Boards. I also think it is a stupid statement. That and “nuke the Fridge”.

    Anyways, I am amazed at how quickly the loyal season 1 Unspoiled board on TWOP is frustrated with the show. There was some quibbles at the start of season 2 and the shadow baby fiasco is making these dislikes even more apparent. They hate the Baratheons, they hate the Lannisters, they hate Harrenhal, especially the Greyjoys and they hate Melisandre/Dragonstone Arc (but in their defense that could have been put together just a little bit). I wouldn’t be surprised if they bail out on the series by the end of the season given the events of Winterfell.

    Welcome to a Song of Ice and Fire folks….

    I wonder if their dissatisfaction is testament to most newbies? Then again I wonder how many people dropped Clash of Kings originally after reading about the Shadow Baby? Because to some people, to most regular tv watchers or even open minded tv watchers ie: people who watch sci-fi and fantasy, vagina monsters are just too much to take.

  125. The Red Avenger
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    I personally think they have been slowly hinting there are “magical” elements in the show since the beginning. Obviously with the White Walkers, but we’ve had Dragons, Wolf dreams, Luwin even mentions giants. Grumkins and Snarks is bandied about too. Another thing which most people seem to have missed is Renly is not having the “gay” thing more prevalent than in the books but the writers seem to have turned it into a joke at Renly’s expense. Renly seems to think its his and Loras’s secret but Margery knows, as does Littlefinger and the fact that two Lannister Guards are making jokes about it means it’s very well known, only Renly doesn’t know it. I think it’s a clever way of showing how uncomfortable Renly is with Margery which both her and Loras use to their advantage in the grand scheme of the Tyrell’s plans. That’s how you adapt, not just by putting every scene verbatim on the screen.

  126. Mimsy
    Posted April 26, 2012 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    They (TWOP newbs) hate the Baratheons, they hate the Lannisters, they hate Harrenhal, especially the Greyjoys and they hate Melisandre/Dragonstone Arc … I wouldn’t be surprised if they bail out on the series by the end of the season given the events of Winterfell.

    They won”t bail. They thrive on the hate. ;)

    The only “fantasy” bit that I couldn’t get over until almost the end of season 1 was the idea of seasonal years. I was like.. what do you mean winter and summer can last for years?! Eh, I got over it.

  127. Knurk
    Posted April 26, 2012 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    I don’t know, I’m on a dutch forum with a lot of non-readers and they all love this season and the shadowbaby so far. There are one or two who hated the shadowbaby, but I think a lot of the bookreaders hated the shadowbaby in the book too (me for instance, and several other readers I know). The only thing they keep on bitching about is Carice van Houten, but that’s because dutch people don’t like it when their fellow countrymen are successfull outside of our country.


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