Thrones keeps steady numbers
By Hear Me Roar on in News.

Four weeks in, and still steady! Good news, especially if the show builds on that and the second half of the season delivers an uptick. When is it going to happen? James Hibberd reports:

While the fourth episode of this year’s Game of Thrones was yet again mostly steady, delivering 3.7 million for its first airing and 4.6 million overall (up just a tick overall from last week, in fact). Season to date, Thrones is averaging a whopping 10.4 million views on all HBO platforms.

The 10.4 million average views per episode is simply great. Interestingly, an earlier report from Variety (probably based on the consolidated numbers from the first three eps only) quotes even over 11 million views already. The latest season of True Blood clocked in at 12.6m – we are catching up!

Hear Me Roar: Good news. Still, I want to see those numbers finally climb to the 4 million mark.


133 Comments

  1. John
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    First

  2. Klavonivs
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    WOOOHHOO, can’t wait for the reaction of next weeks episode!!! Should see a lot of viewers and people rewatching it on HBO GO and so forth

  3. CurbYourEnthusiasm
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    Definitely grabbing over 4 million for the finale (9pm showing only).

  4. The Others
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    With the ending of last episode, I wouldn’t be surprised if we see an increase in viewers this week.

  5. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    CurbYourEnthusiasm,

    Hopefully even sooner :) But yes, the finale will definitely set a record by some 10 %.

  6. Juju Budkeson
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    Good to hear!
    Especially because I consider last Sundays episode to be the worst one so far (Season 1 and 2). But just by Game of Thrones-standards, in the end it was still very good TV and worth watching.

    (Probably I just have this opinion because I think the Joffrey-thing was not necessary and I don’t like the new Mountain.)

    I am certain that the other episodes will be better again…

  7. sunspear
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    I was looking in my book last night to gauge how far along the show is relative to the book, and the show is way ahead of the plot. Hopefully that means the shows pace can slow down and the show will improve, since some people have been complaining it felt rushed.

  8. Ghost
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    I have no doubt that at some point it’s going to overtake “True Blood.”

  9. fiende
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Two episodes from now I think will show the increase.. after the shadow event.

    Thirst.

  10. Linda
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    There’s no accounting for those of us (and I believe we are legion) who can’t watch on Sunday nights for a variety of reasons, so we DVR/record the episodes and watch them later. At least, I don’t see how they can count us into the ratings. Today for instance I have two friends coming over to watch episodes 3 and 4 because we couldn’t watch them when they were broadcast. As well, if an episode is watched later on an “On Demand” system, is that counted? I have friends who watch episodes that way.

  11. Klavonivs
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Ghost,

    True Blood will be in it’s fifth season and GOT’s is only mid second season and it’s pulling these numbers already!!!! And last season of TB was….ehhhh. I am not worried in the slightest. GOT doesn’t need to beat TB, it’s already proven itself as an outstanding and very marketable show…but yeah, I’d definately love to see TB get kicked off the top of the hill:)

  12. Klavonivs
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    Linda,

    Hmmm, wouldn’t a DVR recording a show count for a cablebox viewer…????
    questions??? comments????:)

  13. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Linda,

    That counts towards that big 10 million number. Good job :)

  14. Winter Is Coming
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Linda:
    There’s no accounting for those of us (and I believe we are legion) who can’t watch on Sunday nights for a variety of reasons, so we DVR/record the episodes and watch them later.At least, I don’t see how they can count us into the ratings. Today for instance I have two friends coming over to watch episodes 3 and 4 because we couldn’t watch them when they were broadcast. As well, if an episode is watched later on an “On Demand” system, is that counted?I have friends who watch episodes that way.

    There is accounting for that, it is called Live+7. It combines the live numbers with the viewers who watch on DVR within 7 days of live airing. Of course, it is based on a small sample of the viewing population, as all Nielsen ratings are, so what you or your friends do has no actual bearing on the number that is reported.

  15. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Linda:
    There’s no accounting for those of us (and I believe we are legion) who can’t watch on Sunday nights for a variety of reasons, so we DVR/record the episodes and watch them later.At least, I don’t see how they can count us into the ratings. Today for instance I have two friends coming over to watch episodes 3 and 4 because we couldn’t watch them when they were broadcast. As well, if an episode is watched later on an “On Demand” system, is that counted?I have friends who watch episodes that way.

    If you’re not a Nielsen household it doesn’t matter what you do

  16. RitariKnight
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    TV by the Numbers has the exact figures: 3.654 million for the initial airing with a 1.8 18–49 demo share and the repeat airing not making the top-100 list.

    The viewer number has been dropping ever so slightly with each episode, but it’s no big deal since the difference is negligible and initial airing viewer numbers are trivial to HBO anyway.

  17. Liam
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Juju Budkeson:
    Good to hear!
    Especially because I consider last Sundays episode to be the worst one so far (Season 1 and 2).

    I would imagine that the ratings don’t necessarily reflect the quality or appreciation for that particular episode. For example, if people are disappointed with this week’s episode, they’ll be less likely to tune in next week, and vice versa, if next week’s episode is excellent then more people will likely be lured back the week after.

  18. Klavonivs
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    Ahh yes, forgot about that, don’t you have to drink some punch and wear Nike sneakers to become a Nielsen Watcher???

  19. JamesL
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Klavonivs,

    True Blood was hitting 5m by the end of its second season though. I don’t think Game of Thrones will do that but I’m sure it will break 4m by the season finale. TVbythenumbers has the exact numbers and it actually had the biggest drop of the season so far, last week getting 3.77m to this weeks 3.65m.

  20. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    RitariKnight,

    Every episode was at #1 best cable show ratings list each week, too.

  21. Arthur
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    I posted this in another thread but it should be here. GoTs is doing great and I think next week more people will tune in to see what happened with the shadow baby. And if D&D are smart, things will really start rolling now causing more people to tune in for the 1st airing…

    If you put GoTs against similar shows, it is doing by far, the best as far as ratings go. Take a look at this.

    These sites list the USA viewers by the 1st airing per episode. Just scroll down a little and look to the right…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Game_of_Thrones_episodes

    VS

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spartacus_episodes

    VS

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Borgias_episodes

    It still hasn’t reached True Blood levels but it is on the right track…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_True_Blood_episodes

    If you just put GoTs toe to toe vs other sword and sandal pay for TV series, it beats them out by far…

  22. Klavonivs
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    Yeah, but then again at that time on Earth we had this stupid little Vampire obsession going on so that could’ve helped TB be where it is today. There is no dragon, incest, warmongering obsession right now and the show is doing this well already.

  23. JamesL
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    Juju Budkeson,

    Speak for yourself, I loved the episode and it was by far my favorite of the season. Checking out different forums and message boards this was the most buzzed about episode this season so far and got a lot of the more casual viewers back into the story who most can care less about the Greyjoys or Renly,Margery, and Loras love triangle and want more exciting stuff to happen and this weeks had plenty of crazy stuff happen.

  24. Michael Tschuertz
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    where are the doom sayers?
    ;-)

  25. Slave to Truth
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    RitariKnight:
    The viewer number has been dropping ever so slightly with each episode, but it’s no big deal since the difference is negligible and initial airing viewer numbers are trivial to HBO anyway.

    If we could only force get people to watch this show more, then we would surely see these numbers go up. But, no big deal.

  26. SergioCQH
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    The slight drop pretty much reflects the slow plot movement of the first three episodes. Expect to see a sizable jump for Episode 5 as a consequence of the events of Episode 4.

  27. ImBetterThanArthur
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    this site has posted 9 videos, some of which are new ones about Harrenhal, the torture scene. and other ones.
    http://io9.com/5904562/who-will-be-iron-man-3s-other-hot-scientist-plus-9-new-game-of-thrones-videos/

  28. Maxwell James
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Even if it doesn’t continue to move up, a base of ~10.4 million viewers (in the US alone – quite possibly double that worldwide) will keep this show on the air for a LONG time. Especially given how fanatical we fans are – try comparing Thrones to True Blood or Walking Dead on Google Trends.

  29. David Thomas
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    I just read the most hysterical recap of the episode yet:

    http://www.afterelton.com/tv/recaps/game-of-thrones-204?page=1%2C0

    They call Melisandre “ToriAmosandre.” Love it.

    Clearly a book reader yet doesn’t give a book-reader perspective. Just wanted to pass this along. I hope Winter starts listing these under the recaps post each week!

  30. The Kingslayer
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    I can’t wait to see the numbers Blackwater gets, I also feel there might be a little increase after Renly dies.

  31. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    The show continues to garner fantastic numbers, and even though it dropped a bit on the initial airing, the views for the night overall were up compared to last week. With the cumulative views sure to increase (once people sign up for HBO for True Blood & The Newsroom), I seriously don’t see any problems with the numbers the show is pulling right now. I’d obviously like an increase, but it isn’t exactly necessary for the continuation of the show at this point in time.

  32. Klavonivs
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    The Kingslayer,

    Was thinking the exact thing!!! Ep 9 should go down as the mostest (i own this word) epic tv series episode ever!!! I would think they would incorporate the House of the Undying in this episode as well just to deviate from the battle at Kings Landing even though I’d love a complete hour episode of that battle!!! I’m guessing that episode will be replayed over and over again!!!

  33. JamesL
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    The Kingslayer,

    I still don’t inderstand why they didn’t use Renly’s death as the cliffhanger, it would have been a much better ending. It doesn’t make sense why they would save that for the beginning of episode 5 and it kind of makes me worried that they may skip showing it in order to save money on CGI and it will happen off camera and we will just see the aftermath.

  34. Kevin B
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

    Klavonivs,

    I believe House of the Undying is in episode 7.

  35. bigswerg
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    its getting better and better every week, cant wait to see the last two eps. this season, but then i’ll have to wait 10 months for my GoT fix:(

  36. Mike Chair
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    David Thomas,

    Yes. The writer is Brian Juergens at AfterElton and he’s listed and cited as a New Viewer in wic.net’s Recap Round-up.

    He’s a scream. I liked “Zaro Zaren Ducksauce” accompanied by a pic of Zaro Zaren Ducksauce with a superimposed jar of Mikee Duck Sauce (which has two dragons on the label — nice touch) hanging from his neck chain. The reference to the smoke monster from LOST was a must, and the pic of Mr. Eko (Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje) face to face with it was sweet nostalgia.

  37. Buddy
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    My friend keeps commenting that he wishes there was a way to pay HBO directly for access to Game of Thrones etc. He and his wife are unwilling to pay $100+/mo. just to watch GoT.

    It’s quite sad really. I know he watches it and bought the Season 1 bluray set, but because there is no reasonable way to get the show he, and hundreds of thousands of people like him, will never be able to help with the ratings. Oh well.

    He keeps linking me to this old thing when I ask if he’s watched the latest episode yet.
    http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones

    Good to see the numbers holding steady though! Episode 4 was awesome IMO

  38. Klavonivs
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    i just think they didn’t want to bring Renly back for only 2 episodes, so give him a little more air time and people will react more when he dies and as usual, it’s all about suspense and to grab the non book readers into watching the next episode. We all have to remember on here that “we” can’t be suprised that much and always want to see more, but newcomers to the series need to be immersed in this world and stretching out stuff and leaving cliffhangers is just what they need to keep watching. Also the writers already know the devoted fans are going to watch regardless of how they progress the story (just not changing things entirely).

  39. RitariKnight
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Looking at full viewer numbers and comparing them with True Blood is quite interesting.

    True Blood had the following average viewer numbers for it’s first four seasons:

    S1: 6.8 million (average initial airing viewer number was 2.00 million)
    S2: 12.4 million (average initial airing viewer number was 4.28 million)
    S3: 12.7 million (average initial airing viewer number was 4.97 million)
    S4: 12.6 million (average initial airing viewer number was 4.97 million)

    Game of Thrones‘ figures so far:

    S1: 9.4 million (average initial airing viewer number was 2.52 million)
    S2 (prior to ep 4 airing): 11+ million (average initial airing viewer number was 3.79 million after 3 eps)
    S2 (at the moment): 10.4 million (average initial airing viewer number is currently 3.76 million)
    Season 2 numbers are not comparable since they are not final numbers for the season.

    Looking at the ratio between initial airing viewers and total viewers is very interesting. Let’s look at them in percentages. TB in season order: 29.4 %, 34.5 %, 39.1 %, and 39.4 %. GoT had 26,8 % for its first season and at the moment for the second season it’s at 36,2 % but once again this is not comparable. If the initial average viewer number raises to 4 million and the percentage stays around 30, we’d get over 13 million average viewers for the season which would be more than TB has ever managed and would make GoT the second most watched show on HBO after The Sopranos.

    According to the Variety article, 1 in every 8 subscriber household (12.5 %) is watching GoT through the different ways HBO offers it (TV premiere, TV reruns, On Demand, HBO GO etc.). That means about 3.5-3.75 million households. So there’s plenty of room for the show’s viewership to grow. It’ll be interesting to see how this develops through the second season.

  40. Sam DeGree
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    JamesL:
    The Kingslayer,

    I still don’t inderstand why they didn’t use Renly’s death as the cliffhanger, it would have been a much better ending. It doesn’t make sense why they would save that for the beginning of episode 5 and it kind of makes me worried that they may skip showing it in order to save money on CGI and it will happen off camera and we will just see the aftermath.

    Like most others, I expected this at the end of last episode as well. From a non-book-reader perspective, however, I think this stopping point made a lot of sense in that it maintains an open-ended air of mystery–it allows the viewer’s minds to wander to all sorts of possibilities (and I’m sure many will correctly guess the result). If they had included Renly’s death in episode 4, it would have answered many of the questions in the viewer’s minds immediately and not allowed for as much speculation. While that event would have prompted its own questions and speculation, I think “what’s going to happen next?” is a more suspenseful question than “what are the various consequences of that going to be?”

    I think speculation over mysteries like this is a great driver of viewership–the first seasons of Lost (I only watched two) mastered this method. As much as Lost’s showrunners claim that it was always about the characters, it was definitely the mysterious plot points that kept me interested.

  41. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Klavonivs:
    JamesL,

    Yeah, but then again at that time on Earth we had this stupid little Vampire obsession going on so that could’ve helped TB be where it is today.There is no dragon, incest, warmongering obsession right now and the show is doing this well already.

    Or maybe it was the other way around and TB helped fuel the Vampire obsession ;)

    Anyway, I think the ratings will increase until season 5-6…by then not only people will be a little tired of the show, but it will coincide (imo) with the weakest&hardest to adapt part…by then people will get really frustrated about what’s going on in the story. Specially all the stuff that happens away from Westeros.

    I hope that by then TWOW is out and it’s rewarding enough that we can tell the non-readers “don’t worry, keep on watching, it’s worth it” ;)

  42. Klavonivs
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    I agree with the 5 and 6 possibly being the “weakes&hardest to adapt”…I like to call this part of the series the eye of the storm where books 2 and 3 were just epic and 4 and 5 are merely precursers to what is to come just as book 1 was. But yes it will be interesting to see how things go 3 years from now

  43. Ed
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    And it’s gonna get crazier and crazier every week! :-)

    JamesL:
    Juju Budkeson,

    Speak for yourself, I loved the episode and it was by far my favorite of the season. Checking out different forums and message boards this was the most buzzed about episode this season so far and got a lot of the more casual viewers back into the story who most can care less about the Greyjoys or Renly,Margery, and Loras love triangle and want more exciting stuff to happen and this weeks had plenty of crazy stuff happen.

  44. Dark Brother
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Have you guys checked the latest dvd sales figures for GoT– first season

    721, 440 – DVD – Units sold up to date … For a profit of — $ 24 , 521 , 984

  45. BGAP
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    Ending with the shadow birth was a smart way to create buzz/water cooler talk which will attract new viewers to the show to get answers to that WTF moment. I predict a decent uptick for episode 5. True Blood fans will certainly be curious. It’s right in their territory of interest in the supernatural. Having Renly die by the shadow (and I do hope that it’s shown not just talked about) should hook them for the run of the show.

  46. freoduwebbe
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    JamesL: I still don’t inderstand why they didn’t use Renly’s death as the cliffhanger, it would have been a much better ending. It doesn’t make sense why they would save that for the beginning of episode 5 and it kind of makes me worried that they may skip showing it in order to save money on CGI and it will happen off camera and we will just see the aftermath.

    What part of the episode would you remove to make enough room to show the result and give it justice – I’ll bet the shadow baby activities will take a good part of the next epsisode – especially when you consider the ramifications.

    I know, everyone hated the Joffrey torture section and would make space there… BUT that not only showed his evil (which we knew) but it really showed what a cowardly git he really is – and the level of cowardice was new to this episode – he wants to stick it to Tyrion and he needs to have one whore beat another to do it – he is so LAME….. as welll as infinitely more dangerous to the lower classes that are anywhere near him. Its one thing to take the tongue of a singer who displeases you – its quite another to harm a complete innocent – which the whores were in their own right – they didnt displease him or do something unlawful.. they just were a gift from someone who ticked him off…

    As for the aftermath of the birth of the shadow baby- I expect it to resonate thru the entire hour of the next episode. I’m curious to see how it goes (and yes, i’ve read all the books)

  47. userj
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    I wouldn’t be surprised if we lose a chunk of viewers next episode.

    The amount of violence in that episode was kinda disgusting (and book accurate I might add), and while I am going to keep watching I wouldn’t blame others for tuning out now.

    Previously the violence has been kept to just 1 or two quick violent things per episode. This felt like non stop gore. I felt like I was watching a Saw film. Ick.

  48. Stannis is king
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    In an interview with Michelle Fairley, she discusses a scene where she had to act and than CGI was added later. I’m assuming this is referring to the renly scene. I’m pretty sure they are going to show it.

  49. userj
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Linda,

    Actually, there is accounting for DVR in Neilson ratings. I don’t have a Neilson box, but I’ve done a ratings week for them (they pay you $30!!!), and there is a section where you write in what you watched when it was on, and also what you recorded and watched later.

  50. Juice
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    userj:
    I wouldn’t be surprised if we lose a chunk of viewers next episode.

    The amount of violence in that episode was kinda disgusting (and book accurate I might add), and while I am going to keep watching I wouldn’t blame others for tuning out now.

    Previously the violence has been kept to just 1 or two quick violent things per episode.This felt like non stop gore.I felt like I was watching a Saw film.Ick.

    I think this is a reason why there will be more viewers, personally.

  51. zzzz
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Juice,

    Agreed. People are invested in the characters and are in “don’t want to watch but can’t stop watching” mode. Like watching a train wreck …. a really compelling, well-acted train wreck.

  52. purplejilly
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair,
    The After Elton review is just hilarious each week. The Ducksauce name interpretation was great!

  53. Langkard
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    Klavonivs:
    WOOOHHOO, can’t wait for the reaction of next weeks episode!!! Should see a lot of viewers and people rewatching it on HBO GO and so forth

    I agree wholeheartedly! If it finishes what this last episode started then the reaction should be vastly entertaining. I am one of those who thought the ending to the last episode was perfect. I expect the numbers to come much closer if not top the 4 million mark on Sunday.

    Liam Cunningham’s tweet from the last Sunday before the episode aired pretty much says it all:

    https://twitter.com/liamcunningham1/statuses/194479589500788737

  54. Mimsy
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    What I enjoyed about Garden of Bones is that it took its’ time with the stories. The previous episodes were great, but the jumping around didn’t let me savor the moment of a story. I loved this last episode and I’m very happy with the choices D&D are making in piecing together this complex story.

    Joffrey’s scene and the Harrenhal scenes really put you into the moment of this grizzly world. In my house, you could literally hear a pin drop during Joffrey’s scene. We couldn’t believe what we were seeing and man did we empathize with the two ladies.

    ASOIF is chalk full of torment and it’s going to get uglier with each season. A Feast for Crows almost made me lose my lunch several times. It was like being thrust into the world of the Spanish Inquisition. I can’t wait to see how D&D are going to handle the elements of the last books.

    Wonderful viewer numbers! I love how HBO centers GOT into all of their advertisements.

  55. purplejilly
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Sam DeGree,

    Yep, when I was listening to Larry William’s review, he seemed to be under the impression that the shadow baby was going to stay around, and be a recurring character. He referred to Mordred, from Arthurian legend, who was birthed by a witch, and was the bastard son of king arthur or something like that. So I think he is expecting it’s going to morph into a human character in disguise or something weird. He didn’t seem to have any clue that it might be going after Renly. Maybe other non-book viewers might be taking the same view, so maybe it;s good to leave the shadow baby as the cliff hanger

  56. fuelpagan
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    bigswerg,

    10 months is nothing for a veteran GoT fan.

  57. Mike Chair
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Langkard,

    OMG, I’m at work (self-employed so it’s okay) and I was typing a client’s last name on a form. It was supposed to be “Davis.” I accidentally typed “Davos” instead and sent it to my partner who is not a GoT fan. He thought it was an ordinary typo. I had to admit to him that I do, in fact, have a problem.

    My name is Mike Chair and I’m a GoT-aholic.

  58. ImBetterThanArthur
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    http://io9.com/5904562/who-will-be-iron-man-3s-other-hot-scientist-plus-9-new-game-of-thrones-videos/

    So no1 cares about the 9 new videos at that site. Harrenhal, Torture, Qarth, Robb Stark, etc..

  59. Panzani!
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    Juice: I think this is a reason why there will bemore viewers, personally.

    I believe 3.65 million viewers next week in my personal estimation.

    Until me wife say: come here an watch my favourite programme wit me, well until dat day come I believe no TuBrrculosis ratin’s be comin jah.

  60. Anvil
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Game of Thrones concept art

    Warning: The Kings Landing section has some pics about Ep.19 “Blackwater”.

  61. Matt N
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    userj:
    Previously the violence has been kept to just 1 or two quick violent things per episode.This felt like non stop gore.I felt like I was watching a Saw film.Ick.

    I have no idea what show you were watching.

  62. Stevron
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    I really hope the ending of the last episode doesn’t drive off the casual viewer. My brother, who hasn’t read the books, was pretty disappointed with such a magical fantasty element being introduced.

    Him: “That was weird.”
    Me: “That’s basically what happens in the book. She gives birth to a shadow monster.”
    Him: “Well that sucks.”

  63. lefaisan
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Anvil,

    Wow, nice. Thanks for the link !

  64. DH87
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    RitariKnight: Looking at the ratio between initial airing viewers and total viewers is very interesting. Let’s look at them in percentages. TB in season order: 29.4 %, 34.5 %, 39.1 %, and 39.4 %. GoT had 26,8 % for its first season and at the moment for the second season it’s at 36,2 % but once again this is not comparable. If the initial average viewer number raises to 4 million and the percentage stays around 30, we’d get over 13 million average viewers for the season which would be more than TB has ever managed and would make GoT the second most watched show on HBO after The Sopranos.

    There is another TB related wrinkle: there was anticipation that TB S4 was going to follow more closely than had previous seasons the next book in the Southern Vampire Mysteries, Book 4, since it featured the Skarsgard character, Eric, most prominently. That didn’t happen, and it’s clear that the show runner’s promises are not being delivered upon.

    Significant disappointment and backlash has split the TB most-active-fan community ever since. The expectation is that fan disaffection will be reflected in ratings in the upcoming season and may be one reason Alan has abruptly bailed on the show.

    Since D&D haven’t utilized the bait-and-switch strategy, I think the ratings will either hold or improve as fans realize their loyalty is being rewarded rather than exploited.

  65. Coltaine777
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    This was my favourite ep of the season so far …my only complaint is about the ep length ..53min ? …come on its only 10ep season ! ….And too many eps are too short this yr imo

  66. Oi!
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Anvil,

    Awesome…. Love the KL boat ram idea.

  67. Dennis
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    I am one of those folks who does not understand people’s criticism regarding the “violence” in episode 4. Most of it was implied rather than full blown graphical depictions of physical violence. We did not see the direwolf mauling the Lannister soldier, the battle was skipped over, the foot being sawed off was not actually shown, other than a slap against Sansa or aggressive spanking in the Joffrey/prostitute scene (they could have gone way beyond what they did with the “tools” that were given to Ros), we also did not see the aftermath of what the rats in the buckets were actually doing to the ones being tortured. The most graphical scenes in that episode were perhaps the image of the dead Lannister soldier after the implied battle and the severed head being hammered on a spike. You’re average action, thriller or horror movie has depicted violence that goes way beyond that.

    I am slightly worried that the shadow baby will be a turn off for some of the non-fantasy lovers but I thought the same about the dragons last season. This is not a Dungeons and Dragons geek-fest (sorry to call it that, no disrespect intended) and I truly believe the investment people have made in watching the show along with curiosity will continue to drive the viewer count. In short; I am not worried at all.

  68. Alan
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    One reason for the end of this episode being a cliffhanger and resolving in the beginning of Ep 5 may be the screeners sent out. Just listened to the Grantland podcast and realized that non-reading reviewers have no idea what happened next.

    Perhaps they did not want that scene spoiled in any way?

    —————————

    One interesting thing about the ratings: If you search twitter for #gameofthrones, aside from the actual screening, a good half the posts are from people just starting or watching the FIRST season, whether on HBOGO, on demand, on DVD, or illegally, which I get that HBO doesn’t care (as much) about, but still.

  69. Knurk
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    ImBetterThanArthur,

    that’s because Darquemode already uploaded those videos before. He always uploads these backgroundvideos and links them in the general recap thread.

  70. Coltaine777
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    On another note I’d love to see someone do an animated version of GOT …now that would kick ass !!!

  71. userj
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Matt N: I have no idea what show you were watching.

    I can’t stand torture. It makes me feel sick to see or even to read about.

    There really hasn’t been much torture before this in the series, before this episode. Certainly none this graphic.

    I know that some don’t have any more problem with this type of violence than straight up killing, but I do, and I know several others who feel as I do. Rape has only been implied in the show so far, and no torture at all. In this episode there were three violent torture scenes, one of which also involved sexual abuse (the prostitutes) and another which involved relationship abuse (Sansa).

    ETA: We do not have to be shown the results of the rat torture for it to be graphic. In fact, it is know that violence is substantially more disturbing when the details are left to the imagination. Also Sansa was not “slapped”. She was PUNCHED IN THE STOMACH multiple times, stripped of her clothing, and was about to be hit with a sword.

  72. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Coltaine777,

    This season is one minute shorter (per episode) on average than the first one.

  73. Dogmayor
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    purplejilly,

    The people I was watching with immediately called that it was going to kill Renly.

  74. Maxwell James
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Hear Me Roar,

    For the full season, yes. The first four episodes are some 20 min shorter though, which has definitely been noticeable at times. I think a lot of people don’t realize that “Valar Morghulis” is 64 minutes long…

  75. Morgan King
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    userj,

    Have you read the books? This was just the tip of the torture iceberg.

  76. Arthur
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    Coltaine777,

    I agree! I know GRRM likes to draw. I think he should license the rights for a Japanese Manga production (basically a kick ass graphic novel). Once the Manga takes off he should license an anime company to start the GoTs series. A high quality company, like the one that did ‘Claymore’, my favorite anime series…

    Good thing about anime is there is no such thing as a production budget, if you can imagine it, then it can be drawn. No offense to American artists but those Japanese anime artists got that shit down to a science.

    If any of you want to see a badass anime series please do yourself a favor and watch ‘Claymore’. Once you see Teresa, you will then learn the definition of a badass warrior. =]

  77. tysnow
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Hear Me Roar,

    This season is one minute shorter (per episode) on average than the first one.

    This to me is the most glaring problem with this season, the short episodes. The time flies by and we don’t get as much depth or explanation, and a few extra scenes would surely help. I don’t understand why they have edited them so short this season. They have roughly a 60 minute slot, and two of these episodes could have used an extra 4-5 minutes. I am still scratching my head over this direction, because frankly it is confusing. You would think HBO would want to cram as much into an hour as possible, since they are limited to 10 episodes. I wish someone in the know would explain this attitude.

  78. Suzaku
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    The quality of animation in anime varies pretty wildly depending on the studio, budget, and nature of the project. And a lot of their animation work is done in South Korea, same as most cartoons produced in the west.

    That said, I’d love to see, say, Hiroaki Samura’s take on Westeros. Blade of the Immortal has a vibe that generally reminds me of A Song of Ice and Fire.

  79. Hi-Fi
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    Rest easy, guys. Running time for the next episodes:

    Ep 05: 57 min.
    Ep 06: 54 min.
    Ep 07: 56 min.
    Ep 08: 57 min.
    Ep 09: 57 min.
    Ep 10: 64 min.

  80. Arthur
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Suzaku,

    Awesome.

    My favorite anime series are

    1). Claymore
    2). Wolf’s Rain
    3). Elfen Lied
    4). Spice and Wolf
    5). Berserk

    I don’t know when but I’m sure sometime in the future we will see these novels become a bimonthly manga and then an anime series.

    But like you said, hopefully by a high quality company. Japan would eat this shit up. I can imagine the figurine PVC 1/8 models of Dany lol… Hopefully GRRM realizes this as well.

  81. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    userj,

    there is a lot of extreme violence in this show, but the writers have been careful to always have at least one character in (almost) every such scene who has a “normal” reaction to it, i.e. shock, disgust or similar. If you find it hard to stomach, that’s a sign you still have a working moral compass.

    The torture scenes in this episode served to illustrate that war is hell precisely because it causes ordinary men to lose that compass, e.g. the Tickler. Coming up with a rat pail and then snacking on a pear while applying it perfectly illustrates the banality of true evil. The equivalent in our own oh-so-enlightened times is the blithe acceptance of euphemisms such as “collateral damage” and “enhanced interrogation techniques”.

    The relationship abuse related directly to Joffrey’s sick and twisted state of mind. To him, the exercise of extreme violence for its own sake is the very definition of being king. He explicitly denies that accepting an oath of fealty implicitly obliges the ruler to exercise restraint and mercy. The current affairs analogue is new state laws that force women to suffer pregnancies against their will, even in cases of rape and incest.

  82. Mick
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Juju Budkeson,

    I really don’t get the hate for the new Mountain – especially considering he only got about 30 seconds of screen time that last episode. I’m actually pretty psyched about the new actor

    His height is much more menacing the old Mountain. He looks 100% less like an aging WWF wrestler than the old Mountain

    AND the actor is trained in martial arts (he plays the predator for crying out loud) Imagine how that will play with any potential upcoming showdowns a’hem.

  83. Mimsy
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    I’m just soooo glad we don’t have a casting for Lollys Stokeworth. That is one road I prefer D&D not travel.

    ..and then everybody was mean to her! Like it was her fault for being violated for hours by possibly hundreds. Ugh.. Lollys.. poor poor Lollys.

    The brutality is beyond rough in the Game of Thrones.

  84. Ronnie
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin:
    userj,

    The current affairs analogue is new state laws that force women to suffer pregnancies against their will, even in cases of rape and incest.

    Yes, Joff’s complete monstrosity is totally an analogue to laws that make women have an ultrasound before killing a human being.

  85. Arthur
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    Mick,

    He plays the predator with like a 100lbs of fake rubber muscle strapped to his body. When I saw he got the part as the mountain I thought that is what they would do (make him wear a silicon muscle suit or something).

    Here he is in his muscle suit.
    http://www.avpgalaxy.net/images/main/articles/interview_ian_whyte/interview28_01.jpg

    If they gave him that, to make him look like he actual has some muscle that would have been fine.

  86. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    Ronnie: Yes, Joff’s complete monstrosity is totally an analogue to laws that make women have an ultrasound before killing a human being.

    This is probably not the appropriate forum for an extended discussion of this. I’d just like to point out that the ultrasound issue is NOT the specific one I referred to and leave it at that.

  87. Restore The Day
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    Please look for ‘freoduwebbe’ above, undarkened spoiler in a quote (original message was flagged accordingly)

    Also, no graphing this season so far?

  88. Trappingsofpower
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    I’m really surprised that book readers are shocked by the violence in the show.

  89. Matt S
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    I’m honestly surprised that anyone is shocked by anything in the show, it’s HBO, it’s Game of Thrones, it’s always been violent. If you don’t like it, then fuck off, I’m sick of reading all these whiny comments. I swear next you’ll want Game of Thrones to air on Nickelodeon.

  90. Alan
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    tysnow:
    Hear Me Roar,

    This season is one minute shorter (per episode) on average than the first one.

    This to me is the most glaring problem with this season, the short episodes. The time flies by and we don’t get as much depth or explanation, and a few extra scenes would surely help. I don’t understand why they have edited them so short this season. They have roughly a 60 minute slot, and two of these episodes could have used an extra 4-5 minutes. I am still scratching my head over this direction, because frankly it is confusing. You would think HBO would want to cram as much into an hour as possible, since they are limited to 10 episodes. I wish someone in the know would explain this attitude.

    I’m not in the know, but they undoubtedly shot enough footage for longer than say, 53 minutes in this episode. But there were scenes that were probably cut out or moved.

    Why? Sometimes a scene is cut in editing because it doesn’t work — it’s simply not impressive scene. Sometimes it is unnecessary or messes with the pace. Sometimes you have to cut whole storylines or sideplots and that means you are cutting five scenes at once instead of picking and choosing. Sometimes it’s simply too much information for the viewing. I imagine this is more of a movie thing than a TV thing, where you do need to hit a time every week, but HBO is basically in the middle.

    Heck, it’s not even just cutting scenes, but cutting lines in scenes or cutting the lingering looks or people walking from A to B — how fast is the pace, do we need to establish location, how long do we need to let the audience think? That’s three minutes in 53, easy.

    In terms of why not film more scenes to squeeze it in — well, in addition to clarity and flow issues, it’s not cheap.

    In movies, one scene often takes a whole day of shooting, possibly two. That’s salaries for everyone on set, including the actors, etc. There’s tons of pre-production and post that goes in. I know a day doesn’t sound like a lot, but an extra day of work for fifty people (or more — not sure of crew size) plus the actors, location rental, food, insurance, lodging if necessary, etc.

    It’s a whole ‘nother world if you are talking an extra location — you can’t just go for one day. Or with animals. Or on the water. Or with children.

    This production saved a fortune by never showing Storm’s End, for example.

  91. WinterComing
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Who cares about numbers? I wanna see tweets!!!!

  92. Ryan E
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    Restore The Day: Winter Is Coming, Please look for ‘freoduwebbe’ above, undarkened spoiler in a quote (original message was flagged accordingly)Also, no graphing this season so far?

    Do you really need a graph when ratings are steady? Here you go:

    ____________________________________________________

  93. Ryan E
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    Trappingsofpower: I’m really surprised that book readers are shocked by the violence in the show.

    I agree. When I see people complain about it, I wonder “are we reading the same books?” Geez, Arya’s story has actually had the violence and horror toned down.

  94. DH87
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    Alan: I’m not in the know, but they undoubtedly shot enough footage for longer than say, 53 minutes in this episode. But there were scenes that were probably cut out or moved.

    Remember, too, that HBO hopes to sell GOT to U.S. basic cable in the not distant future (with True Blood it began shopping the series to basic cable channels in Season 3), and basic cable channels must cut not only for sex —they can “blurs” nudity and “bleeps” language—but for 7-9 minutes per hour of advertisements. A 60 minute episode is going to need to be cut by up to ten minutes and that takes a lot of costly editing that must be invisible to the basic cable audience. The HBO directors are basically editing two versions: HBO’s and the basic cable channel’s. The less editing needed for that secondary sale, the more attractive the series is financially and the more satisfied the basic cable viewer is that he/she is getting the “whole” show the premium channel audience was privy to. This was extensively discussed when Sex and the City was sold to basic cable, for example. It’s simply business, not creative choice, to keep episodes at 45–55 minutes.

  95. Alan
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    DH87: Remember, too, that HBO hopes to sell GOT to U.S. basic cable in the not distant future (with True Blood it began shopping the series to basic cable channels in Season 3), and basic cable channels must cut not only for sex —they can “blurs” nudity and “bleeps” language—but for 7-9 minutes per hour of advertisements. A 60 minute episode is going to need to be cut by up to ten minutes and that takes a lot of costly editing that must be invisible to the basic cable audience. The HBO directors are basically editing two versions: HBO’s and the basic cable channel’s. The less editing needed for that secondary sale, the more attractive the series is financially and the more satisfied the basic cable viewer is that he/she is getting the “whole” show the premium channel audience was privy to. This was extensively discussed when Sex and the City was sold to basic cable, for example. It’s simply business, not creative choice, to keep episodes at 45–55 minutes.

    Interesting. I never thought about that, but it makes total sense you would plan for it and even do the editing for them.

    It also could explain some redundancy in scenes completely unsalvagable by editing (say, Theon with Ros in season one).

  96. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    Alan:

    Heck, it’s not even just cutting scenes, but cutting lines in scenes or cutting the lingering looks or people walking from A to B — how fast is the pace, do we need to establish location, how long do we need to let the audience think? That’s three minutes in 53, easy.

    I was always under the impression that the total time available for any given episode is defined by the distribution channels, including overseas sales to third parties. To me, it’s surprising enough that D&D appear to have several minutes leeway either way.

    However, if HBO decided to bump to limit up to 60 minutes, I think it would be wise to use the extra time for additional dialog in selected scenes. This applies in particular to the exposition of new characters, relationships, locations or plot developments.

    For example, anyone who hasn’t read the books wouldn’t understand why Melisandre called Davos the Onion Knight. With a few extra seconds of screen time, he could have said something like “I’m not smuggling onions into a city under siege tonight, am I?” to clarify that. She’d be peeling off her own layers soon enough.

    Similarly, even a small amount of extra time would have made the conversation between Stannis and Davos on board the ship less cryptic. It’s clear enough Mel is supposed to attack Renly in his sleep and that Davos respects being left in the dark about the operational details. What we didn’t learn is if at least Stannis knew them a priori. Had he really trusted Melisandre blindly (“I have seen the path to victory in the flames”) or, had she already told him off-camera that she was pregnant with a shadow or, had she lied to him (e.g. suggested conventional poisoning)? Who knows what and when is rather critical to both military strategy and the balance of power between these three characters.

    There were similar moments in previous episodes where even a single additional sentence would have clarified key plot developments:

    - Why exactly did Ned choose to take Arya to King’s Landing and not just Sansa? Why did Catelyn let him?

    - Why did Yoren transport recruits from Kings Landing to the Wall overland rather than by ship (cheaper, faster, safer)?

    - Why did Cersei assert that hunting down and murdering Robert’s bastards “had to be done”, given that they have no claim to the throne to begin with?

    - Why did Stannis not counter Mel’s promise of a son by stating that he already has an heir (his daughter Shireen)?

    - Why did Dany refuse to show the 13 in Qarth her dragons? IMHO, it wasn’t an unreasonable demand. Budget constraints are not a valid argument here since the camera could have easily have focused on the merchants’ faces at zero cost.

  97. DH87
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    The “dual-editing” phenomenon is seen in True Blood. Eight-minute-long, easily deleted “orgy” scenes or “voodoo dream” sequences appear in episodes that don’t include enough sex scenes to reach basic-cable run times by their deletion alone. Such drawn-out scenes are absent from episodes where the censoring for sexual content would be significant enough to get to basic-cable-length episodes without cutting plot-line-sensitive material.

  98. Klavonivs
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    Phew!!! Boy you almost wrote a book on that comment:) Seriously though, I agree with the whole Davos thing. We all saw the little satchel around his neck where he keeps his finger bones, but wasn’t fully explained or even looked at until this episode. New viewers may have thought it was a coin purse or maybe even a hankerchief protector for all those long nights at the salty sea:) I think Salador mentioned it in his episode but made no reference as to where it was on Davos……GRRRRRRRRRRRR, I hate having read the books before and now getting all nitpicky about this scene and that. I sometimes have to take a step back and remind myself that its an adaptation and must fit into 10 hours of pure goodness:)

  99. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    Ronnie: Yes, Joff’s complete monstrosity is totally an analogue to laws that make women have an ultrasound before killing a human being.

    Hey, it’s old man Reagan, back from the grave!

  100. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    Trappingsofpower:
    I’m really surprised that book readers are shocked by the violence in the show.

    I think it’s because actually seeing (and hearing) it is a lot different from picturing it in your mind’s eye.

  101. Langkard
    Posted April 24, 2012 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair,

    That is hilarious! Luckily I’m retired, so the only people I annoy with my GoT-aholic antics are my daughter and her husband and my longtime suffering cat . When I call her after an episode and wax enthusiastic about some scene or another, my daughter usually just responds with “Daaad” and I can hear her ex-army sniper husband in the background laughing. He thinks the violence isn’t realistic enough. I suppose he’d know after being in Iraq. Then he and I discuss sexposition which usually elicits an even more exasperated “Daaad!” from my daughter. As for the cat, she only showed interest when Arya was chasing a relative around the Red Keep.

  102. Curious George dah Monkey
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 12:03 am | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin:  the writers have been careful to always have at least one

    How would you know something like that??

    Anyway it is known: the writers are perfect and the viewers are flawed. Happy now? I hope so coz ur whinin is gettin much.

  103. ThePinkDragon
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 12:56 am | Permalink

    Fantasy is fantasy, no matter whether it’s low (The First Law, most horror novels) or high (LotR, Discworld, etc). George (and by extension, the writers/D&D) are perfectly justified in introducing fantasy elements into a fantasy world. It’s not real, and it never was real, and it’s allowed to be as unreal as a piece of literature/television can possibly get.

    For those of you who got family and/or friends into this show by explaining it wasn’t fantasy, as I mentioned on another post, I have to say that was not the best of ideas. It’s not at all accurate. You can say that about The Tudors or Rome or whatever, but this is, by definition, fantasy.

    I’m not quite sure what the non-fantasists are gonna do when Bloodraven comes around, or the dragons get bigger, or if the series culminates in a huge magical battle, as it seems to be heading…

    Regardless, I don’t know why anyone would be embarrassed to watch GoT. This isn’t stupid, cheesy, cutesy fantasy fare for 14-year-old girls or frat boys; this is subtle when it needs to be, frightening when it needs to be, and, most of all, psychologically accurate. There’s rape and torture and unexpected death, and no one’s ever cut any slack. The appearance dragons and the magic don’t suddenly make it all juvenile.

  104. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 1:08 am | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin: userj,

    there is a lot of extreme violence in this show, but the writers have been careful to always have at least one character in (almost) every such scene who has a “normal” reaction to it, i.e. shock, disgust or similar.

    Curious George dah Monkey: How would you know something like that??

    Huh? By watching the show. How else? Take episode 14, for example:

    a) In the aftermath of the battle, Robb spars with Roose Bolton about the ethics of taking prisoners and torture. Talissa then schools him about the ethics of war itself.

    b) Moments after Catelyn threatens LF with a dagger, two Silent Sisters walk in with her husband’s bones. It’s their job to deal with the messes that sharp blades leave behind.

    c) Just after we hear a man die on the rack at Harrenhal, we are shown his mother’s blank stare to remind us that torture is not cartoon violence. Later, Tywin immediately puts a stop to Clegane’s senseless waste of human resources.

    d) When Joffrey terrorizes Sansa at court and has her beaten and humiliated, Tyrion puts a stop to it and the Hound offers her his cloak.

    e) When he later orders Ros to beat up Daisy, she tries to dissuade him and only obeys under extreme duress.

    f) When Stannis orders Davos to take Melisandre onshore via an old smuggling route (so she can attack Renly in his sleep), he offers that there are cleaner ways to get the job done.

    Etc. There’s always someone who either explicitly or implicitly comments on the moral dimension of the violence shown. I’m not sure how pointing that out in general defense of this aspect of the adaptation amounts to whining.

  105. Curious George dah Monkey
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 1:27 am | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    The question is rhetorical: Your claim is very difficult to prove and easy to dispell. But I won’t ruin your optimistic fun.

    As for your other question: Being overly defensive emits the same psychological vibe as whining, in case you didn’t know.

  106. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 1:46 am | Permalink

    Curious George dah Monkey:
    Nagga’s Kin,

    The question is rhetorical: Your claim is very difficult to prove and easy to dispell. But I won’t ruin your optimistic fun.

    As for your other question: Being overly defensive emits the same psychological vibe as whining, in case you didn’t know.

    You need to work on your rhethoric. I had no clue what you were on about. And since when is answering a question “overly defensive”? You’re not making any sense, but whatever. I’ve got better things to do.

  107. MRR
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 2:04 am | Permalink

    Dark Brother,

    By those calculations you think they’re making $33.99 in profit for each sale? That seems excessive to me, since it’s being sold for barely more than that in many retail outlets. “Profit” is the figure you get after the retailer takes their cut and after production costs are accounted for.

  108. Coltaine777
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 2:16 am | Permalink

    Hear Me Roar:
    Coltaine777,

    This season is one minute shorter (per episode) on average than the first one.

    That’s interesting ….for me this season seems very rushed and I just wish they would add a couple minutes here and there to add a little more detail / info to the story arcs…

  109. Syrio
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 2:58 am | Permalink

    Hi-Fi:
    Rest easy, guys. Running time for the next episodes:

    Ep 05: 57 min.
    Ep 06: 54 min.
    Ep 07: 56 min.
    Ep 08: 57 min.
    Ep 09: 57 min.
    Ep 10: 64 min.

    Are you just making stuff up?

  110. Hi-Fi
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 3:02 am | Permalink

    Syrio,

    No:
    http://winteriscoming.net/features/episode-guide/season-two/

    But thank you for the vote of confidence.

  111. Cari D. Burstein
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 3:45 am | Permalink

    The story is fairly light on magic by fantasy standards (or at least by what non-fantasy readers tend to expect fantasy standards are), which is part of what probably makes it palatable to viewers who normally are fairly anti-fantasy. So they tend to forget, till something overtly magical happens.

    You could argue that the white walkers and the dragons are both magical in nature, but I think to some people magical creatures are not really the same level of magic as something like casting magic spells. The shadow baby is more like a spell in that it’s actively conjured by a person as opposed to being something that just kind of exists. So it may raise more alarms in viewers.

    My mother actually watched the whole 1st season with me and my brothers while she was visiting. She says she’s not really that into fantasy but she was fairly enjoying the series (although having some difficulty following the characters). But we got to the last episode, the dragons came out, and she says “I don’t think I like fantasy”.

    I think the big complaint about magic for some of these viewers is that without the magic involvement they can almost picture the story in the real world (although obviously not in present day). But when the magic comes in then they start to have more difficulty relating, even though what draws them in are the more relatable parts of the story like the political aspects.

  112. oddlyotter
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 3:51 am | Permalink

    I can’t imagine what the numbers would be if all the people who watch it through less…. noble… means. I’m sure it would be staggering if they somehow knew about all those views.

  113. ASOIAF Fan
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 4:25 am | Permalink

    Arthur,
    Suzaku,

    You should try Monster, the more adult-oriented anime i know(not in a gore/sexy way but more in a complex character/plot way). After seeing that complex stories are also possible in mangas, i can’t enjoy other animes or mangas than those of this author (20th century boys is really good until the end but it’s manga only).
    Still liking Wolf’s rain though, there’s always an exception.

  114. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 4:58 am | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    Indeed. The opening episodes are all short. I don’t mind that the story will be end heavy, and more time will be given to the scenes then, hopefully, which will make for best episodes being those at the end of the season. Taylor returning as director for two of those is also a big plus in my books.

  115. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 5:02 am | Permalink

    Restore The Day,

    We’ll run a halftime ratings post after another episode or two.

  116. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    ASOIAF Fan:
    Arthur,
    Suzaku,

    You should try Monster, the more adult-oriented anime i know(not in a gore/sexy way but more in a complex character/plot way). After seeing that complex stories are also possible in mangas, i can’t enjoy other animes or mangas than those of this author (20th century boys is really good until the end but it’s manga only).
    Still liking Wolf’s rain though, there’s always an exception.

    And don’t forget Pluto, also by Urasawa!

  117. Russian FAN
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    Bring me back my Ned Stark!!! You should kill Ros ! Show no needs no Ros!

  118. ASOIAF Fan
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    Less a fan of Pluto than his other 2 masterpieces but i’ve read it till the end and still enjoyed it. Not really liking the new one for now (Bat something?) but i only read the beginning and it may be that the story hadn’t picked up yet.

  119. Arthur
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    You should try Monster, the more adult-oriented anime i know(not in a gore/sexy way but more in a complex character/plot way). After seeing that complex stories are also possible in mangas, i can’t enjoy other animes or mangas than those of this author (20th century boys is really good until the end but it’s manga only).
    Still liking Wolf’s rain though, there’s always an exception.

    And don’t forget Pluto, also by Urasawa!

    You got to love Claymore though.

    The way these doomed female warriors just get used and abused by the organization.

    How most of the main characters suffer and die by each others own hands is pretty close to Game of Thrones in the sense in its brutality and that any character can be killed.

    You get attached and then they get murdered in a horrible fashion.

    As demonstrated in these links. When Clare gets sent unknowingly to meet her own death by the people she trusts.

    Clare Vs Ophilia part 1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlQj6-3tw7A

    Clare Vs Ophilia part 2

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRXBM1oWU5g

  120. userj
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Morgan King:
    userj,
    Have you read the books? This was just the tip of the torture iceberg.

    Of course I have. I’ve been posting here since before the show came out sonny! ;)

    I have always had a problem with GRRMs tendency to use what I have termed “horror porn” or “torture porn”. I am not an idiot – I understand what Nagga’s kin pointed out, that there is typically some purpose to it, and we are supposed to be horrified. But I feel this is used to excess and for shock value too often.

    One book example is the Reek situation. Avoiding spoilers here, but I felt like this was an extremely cheap way to garner sympathy and not there for much more than shock value. Torture Is NOT redemptive, and I think it’s kind of disturbing that so many readers seem to have interpreted the material this way.

    But that doesn’t change the fact that I – and a lot of other readers/viewers do not want to watch/read this kind of material. It is enough to understand it is happening in this world, we don’t need to be made to feel nauseated by having to actually witness the gory details, or a rape in progress, etc.

    I’d appreciate if people could not reply why are you even reading this then, or grow a spine or GTFO. Would you tell a victim of rape or abuse that they should grow up, that its just fiction and they shoukd get over it and be able to watch triggering material? I certainly hope not. There are a lot of reasons I love this series, but graphic and gratuitous descriptions of torture and rape are one of the few things I hate about it. And my original point was that this could affect ratings.

  121. Elaine
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    Hear Me Roar: Good news. Still, I want to see those numbers finally climb to the 4 million mark.

    Does it really matter much what the initial viewing numbers are? In these days of On Demand and HBOGo it seems to me that those total number of views are more important.

  122. Magog
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Last episode named Valar Morghulis and it has running time 64 minutes. What do you think about that, it is going to be the longest episode (Winter is coming was 63 mins long), and probably the best. Name of the episode suggest that Arya storyline is going to be stretched, and I think that the Valar Morghulis sequence will be a big cliffhanger for the third season. What do you think? (sorry for bad Eng.)

  123. Mormegil
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Magog: Name of the episode suggest that Arya storyline is going to be stretched,

    Why?

    The name suggests her story will end in the exact same place it does in Clash of Kings.

  124. Mormegil
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    I am curious to see what next weeks Ratings will be as there does seem to be quite a lot of people who feel the show is getting too violent or that too much magic is being added (or both).

  125. bigswerg
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan: bigswerg, 10 months is nothing for a veteran GoT fan.

    i know, didnt read books till after season 1 so i only had to wait about a week for “dance” to come out, but as a “Gunslinger” fan i was used to waiting many years in between books
    fuelpagan,

  126. Maxwell James
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    userj,

    Have you watched The Sopranos?

    That’s a show I quit watching after the first season, when I decided it was too violent and nihilistic for me at that point in my life, despite appreciating its many virtues. I did see a few later episodes which served to confirm my early impression.

    Other HBO viewers were not like me, however. They just watched in increasing numbers.

    I say that because I understand the substantive complaints about the show, and the books – I really do. And I even agree with you that if I could change one thing about ASOIAF, it would be to make it just ever-so-less “edgy” and grim, because especially by book 5 I think we’ve gotten the point. I don’t think it ever approaches the level of the Saw movies, which really are torture-porn, but it definitely tries my tolerance at times.

    But what I don’t understand is the argument that people will stop watching, or stop reading, because of this. It may be true for certain individuals, but the numbers just don’t add up. There’s a lot of violence & sex in this show, and so many other entertainments made for adults, because those things sell.

  127. Maxwell James
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    For that matter, I’m also confused by the concerns that fantasy elements will cause viewers to flee in droves.

    Especially since one of the most anticipated movies of the summer is about a team of men in tights who can do things like fly, shoot bolts of energy from their armor, or turn green with superhuman strength. And include among their number a literal Norse God with an enchanted hammer.

  128. DH87
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Elaine: Does it really matter much what the initial viewing numbers are? In these days of On Demand and HBOGo it seems to me that those total number of views are more important.

    Yes, in that the Nielsen ratings of first-viewing preference will be important to eventual basic-cable- channel sales, which are advertising driven. Nielsen’s are still considered the gold-standard of ratings by the reporting media outlets because, flawed as they are, the Nielsen’s remain the only measuring model that includes ALL television viewing across broadcast, satellite, and cable viewing platforms in the U.S.

  129. Lex
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Mormegil:
    …there does seem to be quite a lot of people who feel the show is getting too violent or that too much magic is being added (or both).

    Good riddance to them, I say.

  130. OhDanyBoy
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Dark Brother:
    Have you guys checked the latest dvd sales figures for GoT– first season

    721, 440 – DVD – Units sold up to date … For a profit of — $ 24 , 521 , 984

    FYI, that ranks 6th in DVD sales for 2012 (if you look at revenue) – which is very impressive – and 26th in total sales.

    What is much more impressive is the Bluray sales – they just keep going up – Thrones Blurays were the number 10 selling Blu ray in the most recently reported week (April 15th) and have now surpassed 835,000 copies and $36.75 million in revenue. Combining the revenues of DVD’s and Blurays gives a total of about 60 million – if we assume half of that is profit for HBO, that’s half of season 1 paid for.

  131. userj
    Posted April 25, 2012 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    Fair enough, we shall see. I did notice that the new viewers over at twop were turned off by the grim violence of this episode… Not to mention the shadobaby.

  132. OGTargaryen
    Posted April 26, 2012 at 12:06 am | Permalink

    GoT shout out on tonights South Park lol!

  133. tysnow
    Posted April 26, 2012 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    OhDanyBoy,

    if we assume half of that is profit for HBO, that’s half of season 1 paid for

    Actually season one is already paid for, that Sky deal basically paid for two seasons worth of HBO shows, then there are all the other foeriegn 1-2 year rights that have been dished out.
    Of course alot of that goes back to the investors, overhead, etc. but I would say GoT, BE and TB are sitting pretty for the next few years because of these. If GoT keeps its quality up, overall ratings keep climbing or steady and future disc sales keep pouring it on, a full run becomes more of a probablity than possibilty. My biggest concern if a long run happens, actors will begin jumping ship for other deals. This is why in my opinion the 10 episode season is a good idea, because it leaves 5-6 months of the year for the actors to pursue other projects.


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