Episode 16 – The Old Gods and the New – Open Chat
By Winter Is Coming on in Recap.

We’re a few hours away from episode 16, “The Old Gods and the New.” What are looking forward to tonight? Chat about your expectations here and then feel free to share your thoughts as the episode airs. After the episode, we’ll post our recap and reactions. Here are the episode details:

Writer: Vanessa Taylor
Director: David Nutter
Runtime: 54 min
Synopsis: Theon completes his master stroke. In King’s Landing, the Lannisters send Myrcella from harm’s way in the nick of time. Arya comes face to face with a surprise visitor; Dany vows to take what is hers; Robb and Catelyn receive crucial news; Qhorin gives Jon a chance to prove himself.


216 Comments

  1. RedComet
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    First ;)

  2. Ms.Stormborn
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Excited for Jon to meet a special Wildling!!

    First!

  3. Ms.Stormborn
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Not first ;(

    Drat!

  4. SeVv
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    excited for Theons master stroke. One of the best parts in the entire series!

  5. T-Good
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    so excited! this week flew by…really hope Larry redeems himself to his viewers today

  6. RedComet
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    Looking forward to
    -some street fights in KL
    -Aryas visitor
    -Jons trip to the frosfangs

  7. Varamyr Fourskins
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    I want to see what happens with Roose, and find out whether or not we’re going to get a Ramsay in S3.. But I’m also looking forward to Theon’s scenes, and, seeing the Hound kick some peasant ass during the riot in King’s Landing.

  8. funlight
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    “Dany vows to take what is hers”
    Does she not do that in every episode?

    Really excited about what happens in Winterfell and in King’s Landing!

  9. Hollyoak
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    I’m looking forward to going into this episode not knowing what is going to happen, as in every other episode I’ve watched in Season One and Two.

    I did a mini-marathon today: watched all five episodes.

  10. Dany
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    Would u like fries with that? Dany: I WILL TAKE WHAT IS MINE WIYH FIRE AND BLOOD!

  11. Juan
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Any thoughts on Arya’s surprise visitor?
    I’m thinking it will be Littlefinger: In CoK he returns to King’s Landing with Tywin. Besides, him not saying anything to expose Arya will help mess with the audience’s heads and provide more complexity to his character.

  12. sunspear
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Hoping we finally see Ser Dontos again this episode.

  13. Meg
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Cersei looks gorgeous in that pic!

  14. Jaime Lannister
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    Hopefully Roose confirms the existence of his bastard.

  15. Juan
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    Is it possible that the official synopsis is wrong and they meant Sansa instead of Arya? We all know who’d be the surprise visitor: Ser Dontos

  16. Udi
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    After last episode’s lack of sex, sexposition, nudity, boobs, schlongs, weeners, behinds, Ros, Ros, Ros, and more Ros… and very little violence, I am looking forward to…………………
    More LACK of it! Seriously, last episode was excellent and proved this series can shine without all of this. Not a prude and as a book reader am fully aware many of these scenes happen in the books and some of them are essential for the plot, but… you know, when they are NOT needed they are not missed. Not by me anyway. So much to look forward to in this episode (well, name one episode where you have little to look forward to hehe).

  17. House Snow
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Heady looks pretty hot in that picture (more so).

  18. paylor
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    Yyyyyyyyygrrrrrittttteeeeee!!!!!!!
    Juan,

    I think the description is correct. E!Online had a spoiler that said that Arya met someone who could recognize her. That is a change from the book. I’m betting on Littlefinger, though how on earth he could have made it all the way from the Storm Lands to Harrenhal in such short of time is weird.

  19. Bgap
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    paylor,

    Could it be Varys? He would be a lot closer coming from K.L.

  20. KaMrAnAhMeD
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    I guess in today’s episode Joffrey will be slapped by Tyrion AGAIN… so looking forward to it. saw that glimpse in the 2nd season teasers.

  21. Blackfish
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    With the best show on TV, its really annoying with so many nitpicks or complaints that these people really miss the big picture and can’t just enjoy it for what it is. So i’m making my guesses about what they will bitch about this episode after it airs:

    1: Ros in a scene

    2: Shae talking

    3: Yara not using an axe

    4: Not enough nudity

    5: Too much nudity

    6: That didn’t happen in the book

    7: That happened in the book but morons who forgot and thinks that it didn’t happen

    8: Ygritte is too pretty to be a wildling

    9: Ygritte’s hair is not red enough

    10: Not enough CGI direwolfs/dragons

    11: Idiots who thinks they can do a better job than D&D/GRRM/cast&crew of GoT that they feel a need to point out the smallest, most insignificant detail or fact from the show

    12: Larry Williams’ recap had too many curse words

    13: With a cast of hundreds, someone will bitch that their favorite character with only one line from a 800+ pages novel didnt show up. OMG its the end of the world and they vow to stop watching the show

    Those are my guesses on what people will bitch about, but I’m sure the trolls will have no problems finding more.

  22. Lex
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    It’s Sunday!!! Part of me is sad, because the season is more than half over… But man, I LOVE Sundays! It always feels like such an event.

  23. Lex
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Blackfish,

    I think you are a greenseer.

  24. Bgap
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Will we hear “You know nothing, Jon Snow” tonight?

  25. Mike Chair
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Ms.Stormborn: Excited for Jon to meet a special Wildling!!

    I’m BwP, so I’m not sure, but I hope you’re referring to Ygritte. I watched Downton Abbey for the sole reason that it shares (at least/so far {that I know of} ) two actors with GoT (incl. Iain Glen — Sir Richard, Ser Jorah) in their powerful casts. I’d hope the trend continues. This will be interesting because Rose Leslie is playing a completely different character as opposed to Iain Glen.

    // disclaimer // I’m not saying Iain Glen can’t play a completely different character. I bet all my chairs (and I’ve got a lot of chairs, btw) he can. I’m just saying that I haven’t seen it because I don’t get BBC, STV, ITV, etc. I’ve seen DA on NetFlix and on PBS in the USA. So there. //end disclaimer//

    //second disclaimer // Okay, I know a lot of stuff Iain Glen is in is on NetFlix and that I’ve admitted to having NetFlix. I know about Harry Brown and The Diary of Anne Frank and Tara Road and Wives and Daughters and Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead and Painted Lady and Beautiful Creatures being available on NetFlix — all starring Iain Glen. I haven’t seen them and I have no excuse. Man, this site is tough! //end second disclaimer//

  26. Eor
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Juan:
    Any thoughts on Arya’s surprise visitor?
    I’m thinking it will be Littlefinger: In CoK he returns to King’s Landing with Tywin.Besides, him not saying anything to expose Arya will help mess with the audience’s heads and provide more complexity to his character.

    Personally I think it’ll be Ser Amory Lorch or Roge/Biter, someone who might try to beat or rape her or something, and would take the place of Weese and the second person on her list. I’d go with Ser Amory since in the book he dies after Roose Bolton takes the castle, but as it seems unlikely that Roose will do that in the show it would make sense

    More LACK of it! Seriously, last episode was excellent and proved this series can shine without all of this. Not a prude and as a book reader am fully aware many of these scenes happen in the books and some of them are essential for the plot, but… you know, when they are NOT needed they are not missed. Not by me anyway. So much to look forward to in this episode (well, name one episode where you have little to look forward to hehe).

    I can concur that I don’t miss the sex, but I am confused by the intense hatred so many people seem to have for it (not saying you’re one of them, of course, but using your post as an example). I understand the dissapointment that characters like Ros are taking up time, but I think people are just distracted by the fact that it’s Ros and not by what’s actually going on. Every scene she’s in furthers another character’s development, from seeing the way Tyrion interacts with whores, to the way Theon seems to view her vagina as his right while at the same time caring a little for her, to Littlefinger explaining his desires and establishing his manipulations by the way he’s having his whores manipulate the customers (though “play with her arse” seemed too much), to seeing how Lord Janos deals with commoners and introduce the bastard scene, to showing how at his heart Joffrey prefers hurting others to helping himself. The blatant nudity and sex is meant to titillate, but no more then the blatant fighting and gore is meant to excite and reward our cravings for violence. People complained that there were tits in ep1, but no one seemed to complain that the episode ended with a two minute montage of people butchering children, or that there’s needless nudity during a Pycelle scene, but not that there’s needless fighting when Brienne has to defend herself when Renly dies. Neither of those scenes where in the books but people love the second scene.

  27. Roose Bolton
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    Hoping I get more screen time than 2 minutes this episode.

  28. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Meg:
    Cersei looks gorgeous in that pic!

    I had the same thought, that’s the most beautiful I’ve seen Lena Headey on the show, really looks like “Cersei”.

  29. MockinTheFlayedLion
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Don’t take this to seriously, but some guy on another forum claimed to have seen the episode. These are some of the things he said would be in the episode. Even though I am not sure if these things are correct, don’t read if you don’t want to be spoiled.
    Roose asking permission to send his bastard to winterfell. Irri dying. Osha naked. Osha,Bran, Hodor and Rickon escaping Winterfell. Theon executes Rodrik. Armoly Lorch is Arya’s second kill. Littlefinger talks to Tywin in Harrenhal
    If these things actually happen I am really wondering how that guy got to see the episode early. Some suggestions?

  30. Steel_Wind
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    “Dany vows to take what is hers”…

    Psst: None of it’s “yours”. You’re not even the rightful Queen of Westeros!

    Is even HBO making fun of Dany now? *roll*

  31. Chai_latte
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    I want to see Joffrey with some dung on his face. Do it, residents of King’s Landing!

  32. Eor
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    From a man who spent years reading rumors about Lost, it seems to me that the guy is just making a guess from the info released. Almost all of those scenes are hinted at in previews (Osha naked) or from the book, and as we know (semi) what the next episode is about in Winterfell (Theon goes on a hunt) it’s rather obvious which scenes are likely to be in this episode, and the scenes that aren’t in the novels seem to be rather popular theories around here anyways (littlefinger in Harrenhall, amory lorch being second kill). Possible of course, but my money’s on some guy whose making educated guesses.

  33. Andrew
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Blackfish,

    I agree with the greenseer comment. Who needs Jojen when we have you? :P Well said, mate. I’m afraid you’re right. But at least the majority of us will be able to enjoy it without fear of cardiac arrest if Ros shows up. God, imagine if she was the suprise visitor to Arya? She’s from the north, she might have seen Arya before ;)
    /sending purists into a panic.

    I can’t wait to hear what my friends all think of what Theon is going to do, especially if Bran and Rickon ‘die’ this episode.

    Also exciting, peasants throwing feces at Joffrey and the other Royals. Except Sansa. I feel bad when it happens to Sansa.

  34. julandro
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Pleaseeee I want to see a scene between Lancel and Cersei!

  35. Blackfish
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Lex:
    Blackfish,

    I think you are a greenseer.

    LOL Lex, ty but im no greenseer, those are all pretty obvious. I am just a simple knight fighting for Family, Duty, and Honor. If I get my hands on the Kingslayer, not even the Seven can stop my wrath!

  36. userj
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair: This will be interesting because Rose Leslie is playing a completely different character as opposed to Iain Glen.

    I dunno, I didn’t see much similarity between Ser Jorah and Sir Richard, despite superficial ones. They are both sirs (but that means something totally different) and are both after much younger women… but what else is similar? Richard was made out to be deliberately shifty, ruthless, cold, arrogant, and even cowardly, seems to me. Jorah (in the show at least) is warm, sympathetic, conflicted, humble, courageous – so pretty much the opposite. In the end, I ended up liking Jorah much much more than I expected to, but with Sir Richard I just couldn’t make myself like him despite trying. Which was the point, I thought. YMMV.

    You could say Rose and Ygritte are both commoners who bond with someone from a higher social station, if you want to make a superficial link there. :p Their personalities aren’t very similar either of course (Rose is pretty timid, Ygritte… hehe not so much)… But that’s acting right?!

  37. Dany
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    Andrew,

    Larry Williams will be cheering when it happens to Sansa lol. Can’t wait to see the Hound cut some peasant meat

  38. userj
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    Steel_Wind: Is even HBO making fun of Dany now? *roll*

    Nope, they just love to bait haters like you. ;)

    Bring on the fire and blood!

  39. Tim
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    king’s landing riot!!! finally get to see joffrey get hit in the face with a buncha shit (literally)

  40. Macha
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    I just cant help but be a tad malicious and say that if Linda describes an episode as being atrocious, there’s a 99 percent chance I’ll love it, so I’m looking forward to EVERYTHING. Bring. it. on.

    Mike Chair,
    If you wanna see Iain Glen playing something completely different (and being brilliant at it), try Small Engine Repair.

  41. Ser Iello Snow
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Last time I watched Downton Abbey whenever Sir Richard said anything to Mary, I added “My khaleesi.” To mix things up, I think any time Ygritte says anything, I’m going to add “I don’t want to be a wildling, I want to be a secretary.”

  42. Lex
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    I’m excited for the riot, but I’m worried it might not live up to the book. Definitely one of my favourite all time scenes.

    I really just want to hear “Brotherfucker!” and see some shit flung in Joff’s face.

  43. Kneeling Knight
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    So looking forward to a very hot kissed by fire dame, “You know nothing new viewers!”
    Even though I’ve read the books and I know whats going to happen, I just know that there’s going to be a little part of me that’s gonna go, “Don’t do it Theon!” the whole time! I concur with Richard Madden, Theon is a bastard!

  44. Lex
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Macha:
    I just cant help but be a tad malicious and say that if Linda describes an episode as being atrocious, there’s a 99 percent chance I’ll love it, so I’m looking forward to EVERYTHING.Bring. it. on.

    I’ve realized (based on what she tweeted to FaB the other day, and what she says in her youtube recaps) that, for Linda, good = faithful to the books, bad/terrible/atrocious = unfaithful to the book. Period. It seems she doesn’t take into account things like cinematography, acting, production design, etc. So even if she says it’s awful, ALL that means is that there are some changes (which could be great).

    Anyways, didn’t another critic say this is the best episode yet?

  45. userj
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Eor: People complained that there were tits in ep1, but no one seemed to complain that the episode ended with a two minute montage of people butchering children,

    Actually IIRC a lot of people did complain about that scene… especially on twitter. Many people said that violence was too much and there were several people saying that amount of gross violence was too much. Especially since there was more baby killing in the next episode. :/

    or that there’s needless nudity during a Pycelle scene, but not that there’s needless fighting when Brienne has to defend herself when Renly dies. Neither of those scenes where in the books but people love the second scene.

    Well to be fair a lot of people did complain that Brienne was the one that killed two guards rather than Loras going Ballistic.

    (And in the books Brienne does have to defend herself and Catelyn so it’s canon to that extent. However, instead of Brienne killing them, Cat knocks one of them out while Brienne keeps him busy, then reasons with the other one to let them go…)

    I also felt the amount of disgusting violence / non consensual sexual violence in episode 4 was too much for me to stomach, both the parts that were canon and not. So if people feel the same way about the sex I won’t begrudge them. Mostly I find the sex scenes to be super akward, especially in the series but also in the books. The only remotely hot “sex scenes” so far have been fully/mostly clothed (Dany/Doreah and Loras/Renly S2). The rest are just… Akward. So… no need to add to that… Does anyone seriously watch the sex in this show to be titilated? I hope not because that is some weird taste… Anyway if we’re going to have akward sex, why not more Tyrion x Shae?? They would have fucked at least once per episode were this the books. Instead they just bitch at each other in an annoying fashion.

  46. Andrew
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Macha,

    Westeros.org guys have already seen it? I thought reviewers only got screened up till the 4th? But yeah, I’ll have to agree with you. In one video I saw where she said “I guess they figured they could do more with Doreah than they could with Silver…” in a tone that suggests she thought it was the most ludicrous idea in the world annoyed the hell out of me.

  47. DB
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Looking forward to the riot and the Hound cutting off limbs for Sansa ;)

  48. Icebird
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    I can’t freaking wait to see Ygritte! :D

    I’ve been looking forward to the riot in King’s Landing for weeks.

  49. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Udi,

    This episode features full frontal Osha who I assume from some images from the previews has a sex scene with Theon.

  50. Mike Chair
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    userj: I didn’t see much similarity between Ser Jorah and Sir Richard

    One overwhelming similarity is that they both courted women whom they had no business courting. As for Gwen Dawson vs. Ygritte, you know nothing, userj. :-)

  51. Ed
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    This may be my favorite post of all time!! Right on Blackfish!!!

    Blackfish:
    With the best show on TV, its really annoying with so many nitpicks or complaints that these people really miss the big picture and can’t just enjoy it for what it is.So i’m making my guesses about what they will bitch about this episode after it airs:

    1: Ros in a scene

    2: Shae talking

    3: Yara not using an axe

    4: Not enough nudity

    5: Too much nudity

    6: That didn’t happen in the book

    7: That happened in the book but morons who forgot and thinks that it didn’t happen

    8: Ygritte is too pretty to be a wildling

    9: Ygritte’s hair is not red enough

    10: Not enough CGI direwolfs/dragons

    11: Idiots who thinks they can do a better job than D&D/GRRM/cast&crew of GoT that they feel a need to point out the smallest, most insignificant detail or fact from the show

    12: Larry Williams’ recap had too many curse words

    13: With a cast of hundreds, someone will bitch that their favorite character with only one line from a 800+ pages novel didnt show up.OMG its the end of the world and they vow to stop watching the show

    Those are my guesses on what people will bitch about, but I’m sure the trolls will have no problems finding more.

  52. Macha
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Lex,
    You’re right, that’s precisely why her opinion has never got me worried. Though I confess I do have this masochistic urge to look up her reviews from time to time. :)

    Andrew,
    From what I know, they got to see the first four prior to the season’s premiere. I’m guessing they do, however, get to see each episode some days before it airs, along with other reviewers. Props to you for watching her videos, your endurance is remarkable.
    Ok, enough snark from me on this subject.

    Question, is there any truth to this Irri dying rumour? Has any reviewer mentioned/alluded to this? Now that would be a shame. I really can’t see that happening.

  53. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Eor,

    I don’t remember people complaining about the quick sex scene in the s2 premiere. People complain when it feels disruptive to the storytelling. I think the show gets a lot of criticism because the sex scenes are often off putting, rarely is there any sensuality or exoticness and most the porn scenes involve characters the audience has no attachment to. I don’t think the audience would complain if these porn scenes involved characters like Jon Snow or Dany but they can’t give those characters sex scenes right now so its porn scenes with Theon or random whore scenes. I also think the fact that the nudity is exclusively female this season makes the sexuality on the show look 10x worse and easier to criticize. David and Dan must have forgot a lot of woman and some gay men watch this show too.

  54. Mike
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    Ian Glenn showed up in a few episodes of MI-5 a couple seasons ago playing a rather slimy guy.

  55. Juanra Castiñeiras de Saa
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    Blackfish,

    Totally agree with you.

  56. Mike Chair
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    Blackfish,

    Yeah. You know, there really hasn’t been a “Gate” all season. People were trying to create a Gate out of Larry last week, but that’s not a Gate. A Gate has to be about the show. No Gates.

    No Gates for the changes because we understand/trust why D&D are making changes. (Although Asha/Yara still perplexes me, but it’s not a Gate) No Gates for the sex because we understand HBO. No Gates for the CGI and lack of battles because we understand that GRRM wrote it with the intent that it wouldn’t be on TV.

  57. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    MockinTheFlayedLion,

    All that sounds good except for Irri dying. Why would they do that?? She doesn’t get that much scene time but the actress is beautiful and I really love her presence on the show. I know the actor who played Rakkaro had scheduling conflicts but if this death rumor is true, what is their excuse for killing her? I would prefer none of her handmaidens die but if one has to go I would prefer it be the other one. I really hope this turns out not true and I rarely have issues when they change things and shake up the story but this seems like a very random and unnecessary change by David and Dan.

  58. Mormegil
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    MockinTheFlayedLion: Don’t take this to seriously, but some guy on another forum claimed to have seen the episode. These are some of the things he said would be in the episode. Even though I am not sure if these things are correct, don’t read if you don’t want to be spoiled.Roose asking permission to send his bastard to winterfell. Irri dying. Osha naked. Osha,Bran, Hodor and Rickon escaping Winterfell. Theon executes Rodrik. Armoly Lorch is Arya’s second kill. Littlefinger talks to Tywin in HarrenhalIf these things actually happen I am really wondering how that guy got to see the episode early. Some suggestions?

    Some of that is true but I can’t see other stuff being correct.

    Promo shot shows Littlefinger in Harrenhal so that is correct but I seriously doubt the story will get as far as Bran and Co fleeing Winterfell unless of course they mean the fake escape.

    Irri dying is a bit worrying as I can actually see this happening.

  59. Jeda
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    Hopefully, an opportunity for Rory McCann to have more screen time in this episode. With everything going on, it’s of course not easy to give screen time to every characters, and out of the second tier characters Bronn has the best position in the show since he’s often with Tyrion (and now commander of the city watch on top of it). Now, they have put the most important Hound moment so far, albeit cut down, gradually giving him presence, the butcher’s boy, the tourney, stopping Sansa from pushing Jeoffrey, not impressed by Sansa’s treatment (not that I particularly care about San-San but it’s still important). I remember this chapter with Sandor having more lines than before proportionnally, so I’m keeping my hopes up it will be the same in the tv version…

  60. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    A few critics have said this is the best episode of season 2 so far.

  61. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    So true about the Linda barometer….she thinks it’s terrible =win.

    She thinks it’s awesome=win.

  62. House Snow
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    Does Irri do anything important. Why would it matter if she died? Besides Doreah is the more intesting character, anyway.?

  63. ryra
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    Eor: I’d go with Ser Amory since in the book he dies after Roose Bolton takes the castle, but as it seems unlikely that Roose will do that in the show it would make sense

    I don’t know if they’re going to cut Bolton’s arrival in Harrenhal, but I hope they’re not going to mess up Arya story too much. I don’t complain about having Tywin in Harrenhal from the beginning but I’m a bit worried that this decision will mean a huge rearrangement of the whole Harrenhal’s part , including the remaining Jaqen’s killing and, I presume, Arya escape from the castle

    Also, is the riot in KL really supposed to take place in this episode?

    Jeda,
    I totally agree with you. D&D, give us more Hound please ;)

  64. Jaime Lannister
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    Mind linking one of her reviews/videos, out of interest? I’m curious.

  65. paylor
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    MockinTheFlayedLion,

    If Irri dies, there will be a shitstorm on the internet tonight. They already killed off one POC who lives in the book, I can’t imagine them killing off another one who lives in the book.

  66. Remaal
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    MockinTheFlayedLion,

    I think the info is likely correct. It conforms with what I’ve seen from several other sources, on non-english forums, who claim to have also seen the ep.

    ETA:

    Ofcourse this is the internetz, and bad info has been known to circulate. So, it could also all be bollocks.

  67. Naggas's Kin
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    paylor:
    Juan,

    I’m betting on Littlefinger, though how on earth he could have made it all the way from the Storm Lands to Harrenhal in such short of time is weird.

    In ep 15, Tyrion told Cersei about several theories surrounding Renly’s death. I took that to imply that LF had already returned to KL.

    A long-distance courier on a palfrey horse could pace or amble at about 7-8mph on a hard unpaved road through essentially flat terrain. Figure a hard day’s ride would mean 12-14 hours in the saddle, since both horse and rider will need rest periods. That implies a maximum distance of close to 100 miles per day. For multi-day trips, that number would be lower.

    According to Yoren, the road from KL to the Wall is 1000 leagues (3000 miles) long. That implies ~200 leagues (~600 miles) for Storm’s End to KL and an additional ~180 leagues (~540 miles) for KL to Harrenhal. That implies at least 6-7 days for each of the latter routes, likely more unless the rider has buns of steel.

    For reference, a racing pigeon can average 50 mph and cover 500 miles in a day. However, average speed drops dramatically for even longer distances. Assuming the carrier ravens of Westeros have similar characteristics and the maester network maintains relay stations in more or less a straight line, a message from Castle Black to KL would take 5-6 days to arrive.

    However, the TV show doesn’t tell us exactly when any given scene occurs, the various plot lines are only approximately concurrent. It’s often plausible that they are days or even weeks apart, plenty of time for characters or messages to cover the distances involved using regular medieval modes of transport.

  68. Pyrrhus
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    Random thoughts on last week’s episode:

    * Jaqen’s amazing disappearing, reappearing helmet. Continuity error or eery magic?

    * Ain’t no night market like the Qartheen night market.

    * Doreah stop playing with the dragons. It’s expensive.

    * Arya turns to get water like a water dancer.

  69. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    House Snow,

    Lots of characters don’t do anything important but that doesn’t mean they should just kill them off. Characters die all the time in this story why go out of your way to kill even more. And I disagree about Doreah being more interesting, I much prefer Irriand think shes prettier. It doesn’t matter which one is more interesting neither of them should die even if Doreah did die in the books it is nice to have some characters who have there since the beginning with Dany stick around for the story.

  70. Remaal
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    Macha,

    Where did Linda say the ep is atrocious? Can you link, please?

  71. House Snow
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    Eh its a little much to expect the TV show to give how much time how elapsed in an episode.

  72. Jeda
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    ryra,

    Yes, I would expect the riot to take place in this episode the one started by Cersei being condescending to a woman holding her dead baby in her hands, someone throws dung at Jeoff, who then thinks it’s a good idea to order Sandor and the guards to start killing people… I think there could be more than one riot events in book 2 as time goes by, but that’s the one I remember.

    Did you see this great audition from McCann? It was the after-Tourney scene from the book that I would have liked to see in the show. Anyway, McCann really nails the character here, even made me jump…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIWX2fPx-5k

  73. House Snow
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    Plenty of reasons. Not having to pay her to sit around and do nothing. Because a death of a character is more interesting than sitting around an doing nothing. B/c Dany storyline is boring as hell. B/c the girl playing Irri might want to get a part in a different show, like ok Rarhako. Etc. This isn’t fantasy-land where they can ignore these kind of things, just to be true to the book . They have to have to be as economical as possible . Better to get rid of her now before it bites them in the butt somehow.

  74. sjwenings
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    What DON’T I look forward to this episode? Theon taking over Winterfell should be pretty epic. Brans reaction, and Theons to Brans should be great! Cerseis threat to Tyrion as seen in the preview.

    I’ve been looking forward to the riot in KL all season long! I really do hope Tyrion doesn’t just smack Joff, but – as in the book – gives him a good kick or two
    and that in addition to the anger in his face, we’ll see a glimpse of satisfaction,
    again,
    like in the book. Will be exiting to see who Arya meets, and last but first: Ygritte! I hope they don’t make it too obvious that she’ll become a love interest for Jon. Though, I get the feeling they might do exactly that, since they didn’t show her face during the fight with Jon, and that somehow seems to me like a lead up to a “here she is”, moment. Hopefully it’s just a “she’s just a girl! I can’t kill a girl!” kind of thing.

    Edit: Oh, and I really hope the clip we saw of “Jon cutting something with his sword isn’t the tired old clichè of making it seem like he’s gonna execute her, but then he just cuts the rope she’s tied up with or something. One of the top ten movie/TV clichès that. (Ok, I don’t know, but it very well could be.)

  75. JMart
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    Eor,
    I’m so happy someone finally picked up on Ros’s

  76. Naggas's Kin
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    House Snow:
    Eh its a little much to expect the TV show to give how much time how elapsed in an episode.

    Were you referring to my earlier comment?

    Given the overall attention to detail, it’s not inconceivable that the showrunners would have attached a guesstimated timestamp to each scene. This will actually become essential for merging books 3 and 4 into a single chronology. It would also inform the decisions on the order of scenes across the series and within each episode. Finally, if there were any glaring errors in GRRM’s chronology of events, this method would uncover them.

    I do, however, agree with you that actually showing the timestamps at the beginning of selected scenes could annoy some viewers. After all, GoT isn’t Star Trek.

  77. Lex
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    Remaal:
    Macha,

    Where did Linda say the ep is atrocious? Can you link, please?

    On her tumblr… But be warned, it’s a disturbing place. I really, really don’t think we should link to it on this site.

  78. Virtus
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    paylor:
    MockinTheFlayedLion,

    If Irri dies, there will be a shitstorm on the internet tonight. They already killed off one POC who lives in the book, I can’t imagine them killing off another one who lives in the book.

    Well, didn’t they make up for that by having Xaro and Sallador played by POCs?

  79. Macha
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    Remaal,

    Her tumblr, though I believe that when she used that particular term she was referring to ‘what they ended up doing’ – as in a departure from the books, and not the episode as a whole – that was described as simply being the worst, I believe. :) Hence, my prediction that *I* will probably consider it as the best. We’ll see.

    Edit: Lex beat me to it and yes, I agree, let’s just focus on enjoying ourselves.

  80. StarkBlood
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    I am looking foward to Jon’s storyline in this episode. Also, the riot scene where the townspeople throw veggies at Joffrey and Sandor saves Sansa.

  81. SillyMammo
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    Juan:
    Any thoughts on Arya’s surprise visitor?

    Ros? I think Ros should pop up in ever one of the story threads. Can you imagine the surprise when Ros shows up next to Mance Rayder or when she seduces Asha(sorry Yara) at the Kingsmoot? The possiblities are endless! :0P

  82. paylor
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    Virtus,

    No actually. Not at all.

  83. Carolina H
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    so excited for the riot!!!! can’t wait to see the hound fighting and saving his little bird. that’s what i’m looking forward to seeing the most, but meeting ygritte, robb & cat receiving the news of winterfell, theon, qarth, arya well practically everything else seems to be pretty cool in this episode! but still, more san/san please HBO!!

  84. Jeda
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    Eor,

    All very true… I wonder who they’re going to use for Alayaya’s role when Cersei has her abdcuted. Maybe Armeca. I assume it will happen because the resulting scene between Tyrion and Cersei was in the season 2 trailer.

  85. userj
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    House Snow: Plenty of reasons. Not having to pay her to sit around and do nothing. Because a death of a character is more interesting than sitting around an doing nothing. B/c Dany storyline is boring as hell. B/c the girl playing Irri might want to get a part in a different show, like ok Rarhako. Etc. This isn’t fantasy-land where they can ignore these kind of things, just to be true to the book . They have to have to be as economical as possible . Better to get rid of her now before it bites them in the butt somehow.

    Um lolno.

    Also if you find Dany’s story so boring, surely killing off one of the few remaining characters in it isn’t exactly going to help (other than for that one scene?)

    I really enjoy how book readers who hate Dany think that the best “solution” to her story being “boring” is to cut as much of it as possible from the show. Please go back to putting your fingers in your ears and yelling “LALALALALA” whenever Dany comes on screen, and leave the rest of us alone to enjoy the show. Thanks.

    The showrunners made a great choice by leaving Doreah alive and ramping up Irri and Rakharo’s roles (RIP Rakharo ;__;). It’s nice to have more characters that I actually care about in Essos. The Dothraki characters are woefully underused in the books TBH.

  86. Juanra Castiñeiras de Saa
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    I can concur that I don’t miss the sex, but I am confused by the intense hatred so many people seem to have for it (not saying you’re one of them, of course, but using your post as an example). I understand the dissapointment that characters like Ros are taking up time, but I think people are just distracted by the fact that it’s Ros and not by what’s actually going on. Every scene she’s in furthers another character’s development, from seeing the way Tyrion interacts with whores, to the way Theon seems to view her vagina as his right while at the same time caring a little for her, to Littlefinger explaining his desires and establishing his manipulations by the way he’s having his whores manipulate the customers (though “play with her arse” seemed too much), to seeing how Lord Janos deals with commoners and introduce the bastard scene, to showing how at his heart Joffrey prefers hurting others to helping himself. The blatant nudity and sex is meant to titillate, but no more then the blatant fighting and gore is meant to excite and reward our cravings for violence. People complained that there were tits in ep1, but no one seemed to complain that the episode ended with a two minute montage of people butchering children, or that there’s needless nudity during a Pycelle scene, but not that there’s needless fighting when Brienne has to defend herself when Renly dies. Neither of those scenes where in the books but people love the second scene.

    Well spoken, my friend. Many people seem to have a serious problem with sex and nudity, but why not with violence?

  87. From Chaos
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Blackfish: With the best show on TV, its really annoying with so many nitpicks or complaints that these people really miss the big picture and can’t just enjoy it for what it is. So i’m making my guesses about what they will bitch about this episode after it airs:1: Ros in a scene2: Shae talking3: Yara not using an axe4: Not enough nudity5: Too much nudity6: That didn’t happen in the book7: That happened in the book but morons who forgot and thinks that it didn’t happen8: Ygritte is too pretty to be a wildling9: Ygritte’s hair is not red enough10: Not enough CGI direwolfs/dragons11: Idiots who thinks they can do a better job than D&D/GRRM/cast&crew of GoT that they feel a need to point out the smallest, most insignificant detail or fact from the show12: Larry Williams’ recap had too many curse words13: With a cast of hundreds, someone will bitch that their favorite character with only one line from a 800+ pages novel didnt show up. OMG its the end of the world and they vow to stop watching the showThose are my guesses on what people will bitch about, but I’m sure the trolls will have no problems finding more.

    I love this

  88. StarkBlood
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Jeda,

    I think they will substitute Ros for Alayaya

  89. Judy Bouma
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    I’m looking forward to the standard: Ygritte, KL riot, Theon’s betrayal, etc., but I’m curious to see what/who Cersei is using for the subject of her threat to Tyrion, since Chataya and Alayaya don’t exist.

    I hoping for the same conclusion Starkblood beat me to posting. One can hope that because Chataya‘s role has been absorbed into Ros’s role , perhaps Ros is also going to get what came to Alayaya. If that actually happens, how many Ros-haters will hate her for usurping Chataya more than they relish seeing her take the misdirected beatings that Alayaya suffered?

    Of course, Cersei could be making a completely different threat. We’ll find out in a few hours.

  90. Naggas's Kin
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Lex: On her tumblr… But be warned, it’s a disturbing place. I really, really don’t think we should link to it on this site.

    Linda’s handle on Twitter is @hippoiathanatoi
    If you’re curious what the all fuss is about, google that without the @. I did and found her tumblr. My take: what was read cannot be unread.

    I agree with Lex that we probably should not address the substance of her musings here, lest we end up with a protracted flame war. Always support the bottom!

  91. Jeda
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    StarkBlood,

    Possible of course, unless they use the new one but she’s already been abused by Jeoffrey, it could feel repetitive. The thing is they might still need Ros to be there for brothel’s scenes, so switching with Armeca would make sense.

  92. Damián Erro
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    so far i feel: 1st season > 2nd season , lets see what tonight’s episode has to offer

  93. Mike Chair
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    As some of you may remember, Mike Chair is from Massachusetts. I apologize. Being conflicted as I am — Celtics fan/GoT Fan — I plan to watch the Celtics from 7:00 pm EST USA to 9:00 EST USA, upon which time I shall cease recording Once Upon a Time (aka Jennifer vs. Ginnifer), record the rest of the Celts, and watch GoT, because I’ve seen the Celts win before (many, many times before, btw).

    Out of an abundance of respect for the Green and White, I shall change my Avitar for the evening from my usual rocking chair to a Celtics Chair. I told you I’ve got a lot of chairs.

    :-)

    Go Celts!

  94. PrettyPenny
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Jeda,

    I agree with you, the interaction between Sandor and Sansa has been very limited so far. The complex chemistry between the two that emerged in the second book has been completely eliminated and underrated, instead we have unnecessary scenes with prostitute Rose (not a fan), which add no depth nor understanding to the series. I really hope they make it work, and give us some inkling about his relative kindness towards his “pretty little bird”.

  95. Virtus
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    paylor,

    Why not? 2 for 2.

  96. Jiqui
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Naggas’s Kin,

    I’m more amazed that someone could be quite as stupid as her. She’s been granted a rather high place in this fandom, co-owning the largest GoT/ASoIaF community on the web and with a link to even GRRM himself. The show’s success and health is of paramount importance to her little website continuing to thrive and reap profit.

    So why the fuck would she grill the show so mercilessly? Is writing it off as “atrocious” really that smart, opposed to, you know… singing it standard praises, and mentioning what could have been done better in a slightly less foolish, self-harming manner? Jesus.

  97. Arthur
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Lol…

    GoTs follows me everywhere. I am currently watching the Russel Crow ‘Robin Hood’ and I spotted 2 actors so far from GoTs.

    The guy who played Robert Baratheon is Friar Tuck (another alcoholic).

    And the nights watch guy who got beheaded on the first episode by Eddard was the guy Russel Crow saved and got dragged to death by the neck by a horse…

    I had to do a second take after friar tuck spoke. Lol so funny.

  98. T-Good
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    Can’t wait to not read All the nitpicking after I watch the episode.

  99. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    Man, Linda’s tumblr is a just something else. Does she realize how much of a nasty person she comes across as? Does she care?

    I wonder if Linda is going to end up having a mental breakdown by the end of the season and go on some crazy rant against the HBO series. I also think she is a complete fucking hypocrite to dare go on those Thronecast featurettes. If she had ANY integrity whatsoever she would refuse them. Seems like she enjoys being in the limelight. Textbook narcissist.

  100. Remaal
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Macha,

    Thank you! :)

    ETA:

    Just looked over her tumblr. Wow! Just wow!

  101. TyrionFan57
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Jeda: Did you see this great audition from McCann? It was the after-Tourney scene from the book that I would have liked to see in the show. Anyway, McCann really nails the character here, even made me jump…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIWX2fPx-5k

    Thank you for sharing this! It was awesome.

  102. House Snow
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    Maybe she is crazy like a fox. She wouldn’t be the first person to draw attention by taking the most controversial POV. Plenty ofpeople make a career by doing that.

  103. Pink Dragon
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    This dragon won’t get to see the episode until the 8pm PST repeat because her father feels the need to watch hockey at 6.

    :’(

  104. TyrionFan57
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

    Pink Dragon: This dragon won’t get to see the episode until the 8pm PST repeat because her father feels the need to watch hockey at 6.

    :’(

    It will show up on HBOgo at 7:00 PST, so if your computer can play it, you can see it one hour earlier than you planned.

  105. Prince of Winterfell
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    The actress who plays Irri has an interview posted online. In my opinion she came off to me as very rude in the interview. Maybe thats just her personality. Either way I dont mind her character. If she dies it will be a “shrugs” moment rather than a wtf moment.

  106. Pink Dragon
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    TyrionFan57,

    Oh, I didn’t know that. Thanks for the info! :D

  107. Aleenys
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    Definitely looking forward to the riot and Sandor saving Sansa, its a shame that the scene won’t have horses so we won’t see the heroic rescue in all its glory(don’t judge me, I love those two) Also looking forward to Robb and Cat’s reaction to the news and some interesting scenes with our Mother of Dragons. :)

  108. House Snow
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    edit

  109. House Snow
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    Yeah if irri dying is the big change color me relieved

  110. Pink Dragon
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    On the topic of Irri: Honestly, I’m sad when most neutral or generally good characters die (i.e. anyone who’s not completely, cartoonishly bonkers like Joffrey). Death, while a fact of life, is a little depressing for me in any medium. So, regardless, I’ll be sad if Irri’s offed.

    And on the topic of the haters: some episodes I do have minor annoyances, but they never get in the way of my enjoyment of the show. I think the point is that people are allowed to nitpick, certainly, but not to the point where they practically can’t watch anymore. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. No one’s forcing you. And if you’re still watching it even after you’re pulling apart every episode, you don’t hate it as much as you think you do.

    Call me an ass-kisser, but I’m just amazed and thankful we have an adaptation that isn’t 75% trash. Hell, I’m amazed and thankful we have an adaptation at all. Some of my favorite books will never be turned into a movie or (mini-)series because it wouldn’t be feasible for whatever reason: cost, CGI, interest/demographics, etc.* That saddens me a hell of a lot.

  111. MetalgoddessAMB
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    Meg:
    Cersei looks gorgeous in that pic!

    I thought the same thing when I saw it!

  112. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    I really hope for lots of Sansa scenes the 2nd half of the season, they have not done her story justice at all this season so far. Still no Dontos and not one interaction with the Hound.

  113. Jaime Lannister
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Pink Dragon,

    Agreed. Still waiting on that The Shadow of the Wind adaption…

  114. Remaal
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    House Snow,

    Agreed.

    ETA:

    But I suspect the change is not just in that she dies, but how she dies. The situation the writers create that leads to her death. Still, it’s nothing that worries me in the least.

  115. Pink Dragon
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    Jaime Lannister,

    Your taste in books seems to be much better than mine, ha! What came to mind for me was actually Malazan, a non-shitty His Dark Materials, Dragonriders of Pern, hella Stephen King novels, etc. I want to add The Dark Tower, too, since it seems to be stuck in production hell right now.

  116. Naggas's Kin
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Juanra Castiñeiras de Saa: Well spoken, my friend. Many people seem to have a serious problem with sex and nudity, but why not with violence?

    Many of the movies and TV shows that consumers in the Western world are presented with are produced in the USA, where even a little on-screen nudity/sex can earn a product a restricted rating. There are even nanny-state lists of words that must not be broadcast, even late at night. Producers looking for a broader audience therefore tend to rely more on stunts and violence to satisfy viewers’ appetites for something – anything – that provokes a visceral response. Over the decades, the MPAA and FCC have thus shaped US consumer expectations and preferences. The dominance of ad-driven commercial media has reinforced this trend.

    If you look at e.g. European movies and TV dramas, there’s generally less and less graphic violence and a more relaxed attitude towards nudity and sex (especially for material broadcast after 9 or 10pm). Whether you think this is a better balance depends largely on your own cultural roots, I suppose.

    My personal take is that both violence and nudity/sex have their place in movies/TV shows marketed to adults, provided that it is roughly proportionate to the amount of plot advancement and/or character/relationship development. An imbalance is easily perceived as gratuitous, a cheap appeal to our baser instincts.

    Note, however, that gratuitous and extreme are separate characteristics: Ned Stark’s execution, for example, was extreme but not gratuitous – it marked the transition for the rule of law to tyranny. By contrast, the LF’s peepshow/cumwipe/intimidation scene was not extreme but it was gratuitous – it didn’t tell us anything about LF’s character that we hadn’t already been told or figured out on our own.

    Was Polliver’s murder of Lommy extreme? Yes. Was it gratuitous? It did reveal the man’s character, but so far he’s been a bit player at best. The director could have made do with a close-up of Polliver’s face as he stabbed the boy. Sometimes it’s preferable to let the viewer imagine the aspects not explicitly shown or heard.

  117. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    JamesL:
    I really hope for lots of Sansa scenes the 2nd half of the season, they have not done her story justice at all this season so far. Still no Dontos and not one interaction with the Hound.

    Agreed! Also, Sandor doesn’t call her ‘Little Bird’. My main worry with that is, with so much of the Sansa-Sandor story cut out, non-readers may be confused when he takes his song (something that he has yet to ask for/mention/demand). By the way, anyone else find it ridiculous that, despite the fact that we are more than halfway through the season, TV!Dany (as opposed to Book!Dany) still has not named her dragons?

  118. House Snow
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Pink Dragon: Jaime Lannister, Your taste in books seems to be much better than mine, ha! What came to mind for me was actually Malazan, a non-shitty His Dark Materials, Dragonriders of Pern, hella Stephen King novels, etc. I want to add The Dark Tower, too, since it seems to be stuck in production hell right now.

    Malazan gets my vote for most impossible fantasy book to make unless you make it some kind of animated series which wouldn’t be a terrible idea.

  119. Lex
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    wargsareawesome: By the way, anyone else find it ridiculous that, despite the fact that we are more than halfway through the season, TV!Dany (as opposed to Book!Dany) still has not named her dragons?

    Believe it or not, we still have NOT heard the names “Summer” or “Grey Wind” either.

    And last week was the first time we heard “Osha” and “Melisandre”.

  120. Jaime Lannister
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    Pink Dragon,

    Heh. Can’t say much for your collection there (out of ignorance, mostly), though from what I’ve read of The Dark Tower (bought the series just the other month actually; the last I read, that psycho serial killer had just been bifurcated by a train in book two…) but yeah, from what little I’ve read of it… that is material for the big screen.

    Your taste is not as bad as you think; the world of production just needs to stop pandering to the lowest common denominator and bring some good material to life.

    Twilight got a movie or three, after all…

  121. Rygar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    I hope by “Master Stroke” that means we get to see Theon’s dick again.

  122. Solar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    what is her tumblr? i’m not able to find it :/

  123. ThePinkDragon
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    On the topic of Osha: for real? Last week was truly the first time we heard someone say her name? And yet we had to have the Yara name change? Damn.

    Like, I’m not really angry by that decision so much as perplexed. Strange.

  124. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    Lex: Believe it or not, we still have NOT heard the names “Summer” or “Grey Wind” either.

    And last week was the first time we heard “Osha” and “Melisandre”.

    Really? I could have sworn that Osha mentioned her name in her first episode, when she surrendered to Robb & Theon. If I’m wrong, then it is odd that they changed Asha’s name to Yara, instead of changing Osha’s name.

  125. Solar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    wargsareawesome,

    nope. last week was the first time her name was mentioned. which is why it makes no sense to change asha to yara. and like lex said, summer and grey wind have not been mentioned either. sad day.

  126. Serevasix
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    Looking at the picture above…

    It really gives me an asian vibe regarding the look of the characters… Tyrion aside, I always thought the Lannister armor have that samurai-ness to it. Especially if the visor is open. And now Cersei’s gown and hair style have that chinese look.

  127. Mormont
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    From my reading of Clash of Kings I don’t remember seeing that much interaction between Sansa and the Hound. Other than the famous song sequence of course. To me the relationship is unrequited love. The hound loves Sansa and Sansa does not return or share that emotion. My evidence for this is when the Hound offers to help Sansa escape from Kingslanding and she refuses. Instead she insists on escaping with her Florian “Ser Dontos”. Sansa is ever the girl who believes in songs more so than reality. Which makes her very sympethetic to me

  128. ThePinkDragon
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    Solar,

    Man, it would only take, like, a split second for the dialogue to mention these names. D&D, if you’re out there, remember that non-bookies won’t always go on the GoT Wiki or HBO website to figure out what’s going on — let the show stand mostly alone, even in minor details, like the names of the direwolves.

    Serevasix,

    I don’t know if someone here said this or if the crew actually mentioned it in a behind-the-scenes video, but somewhere it was mentioned that they probably wanted to distinguish themselves from full-on medieval fantasy by adding little bits of other cultures in. After all, this isn’t a straight-up period piece. But most aspects of Westerosi living are still pretty much plucked from Western Europe during those “middle” ages.

  129. Solar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    ThePinkDragon,

    yeah i know :/ oh well i’m sure they’ll be mentioned at some point. on a different note, i found linda’s tumblr page and just LOL at that.

  130. chris
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    Sending Myrcella away to Dorne seemed a bit rushed in comparison to the book Clash of Kings, yet it was completely on time. Is it just me or is this season being whizzed by, along with some average-sized details falling off altogether. The amazingly epic scenes from the book seem a bit toned-down thus far as well.. (Tyrion bursting into the kingdom and taking immediate charge ((scenes with pycelle and janos slynt coulda been a bit more clever and heated)) .. Which would make sense considering you’re throwing imaginitive figures and dialouges from paper onto a screen, yet season one failed to dissapoint in any one aspect. I guess what I might be trying to say is (and I know you have all been hearing this a lot recently)…
    Where are Jojen and Meera Reed?!? Beautiful characters. Especially in the sense of Bran’s fate and the whole backdrop of where north of the wall is concerned..
    The producers must be saving it all for that epic battle scene.

    ..and shoot, now that I’ve gone and read up to the end of A Dance with Dragons, Dany’s story seems to far behind and laggish right now. It’ll pick up, no doubt.

  131. John-Michael Lelievre
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    A few people have said this, but WOW does Lena look great. I love her kimono thing.

  132. Aleenys
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    Serevasix,

    Indeed! Why does she wear a kimono? Honestly, am I the only one who doesn’t like the dresses in the series, they could have done so much better job with them. I think normal Medieval-European kind of dresses would have made the ladies in the series far more attractive.

  133. Maxwell James
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    Pink Dragon,

    Call me an ass-kisser, but I’m just amazed and thankful we have an adaptation that isn’t 75% trash. Hell, I’m amazed and thankful we have an adaptation at all. Some of my favorite books will never be turned into a movie or (mini-)series because it wouldn’t be feasible for whatever reason: cost, CGI, interest/demographics, etc.* That saddens me a hell of a lot.

    This! Like you, I’m occasionally annoyed or disappointed by GoT – but good grief, it could be so very much worse than it is. One of my favorite books is Blindness by Jose Saramago. I attempted, at one point, to watch the execrable movie made of it and gave up after about 15 minutes.

    80-90% of the time GoT does perfect justice to the books, and even surpasses them on occasion. Given that, I’m more than willing to tolerate the other 10-20%.

  134. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    Aleenys:
    Serevasix,

    Indeed! Why does she wear a kimono? Honestly, am I the only one who doesn’t like the dresses in the series, they could have done so much better job with them. I think normal Medieval-European kind of dresses would have made the ladies in the series far more attractive.

    I agree. I mean, with Dany (and eventually the Dornish) it’s one thing, because Dany is in the east and Dorne is heavily influenced by Rhoynar customs, and Rhoyne is also in the east, but there is really no excuse for the rest of Westeros

  135. Laura T.
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    I’m calling BS on the whole “the audience will confuse Asha & Osha” rationale. The truth in my opinion is that they changed the entire character of Asha & therefore the name change is fitting. Honestly, HBO’s Yara is NOTHING like GOT Asha.

  136. Laura T.
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    John-Michael Lelievre,

    Also loving her dress & wowza she looks great.

  137. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    Bgap:
    Will we hear “You know nothing, Jon Snow” tonight?

    This one hopes so.

  138. The Kingslayer
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Lena looks gorgeous in that picture.

  139. LordStarkington
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Nudity warning!

  140. Lana
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    Man, you know there’s a recession when even a Lannister trades his golden locks for copper ones. The things they do for – wait; remind me again of why this was necessary? Bring back the gold, D&D, for the love of all that is Lannister.

  141. AshStorm
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

    DAMN YOU, THEON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  142. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    Theon…burn in hell.

  143. AshStorm
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    Wow, intense first 15 mins.

  144. chris
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    AshStorm,

    damnit I want to be watching this right now

  145. AshStorm
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

    Touched by Fire, indeed :D

  146. Ms.Stormborn
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    Rose Leslie IS Ygritte! She rocks!

  147. LordStarkington
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

    Somewhere, a thousand SanSan shippers sigh in delight

  148. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    SanSan lives.

  149. AshStorm
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    Ms.Stormborn,

    I was worried she wasn’t going to be able to pull it off but seeing her grit her teeth and verbally deliver fire…

    So hot!!!!!

  150. Ms.Stormborn
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    AshStorm,

    Never underestimate a true red-head;)

  151. LordStarkington
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    Jaqen, a legend without peer.

  152. Suzaku
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    Aleenys:
    Serevasix,

    Indeed! Why does she wear a kimono? Honestly, am I the only one who doesn’t like the dresses in the series, they could have done so much better job with them. I think normal Medieval-European kind of dresses would have made the ladies in the series far more attractive.

    They actually seem to have given Lannister fashion a tad bit of Japanese influence. Cersei’s dresses look kind of like kimonos and the red lobstered steel Lannister armor looks a bit like the red laquered armor that samurai wear. Plus, when the faceguards on the helmets are open they look a lot like samurai helmets.

  153. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    LordStarkington:
    Jaqen, a legend without peer.

    Indeed, we agree.

  154. LordStarkington
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    Ramsay Snow/Bolton mention!

  155. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    Lot of big changes this week. Oh Snap.

  156. Dennis
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

    WOW crazy eventful episode

  157. Mormont
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    OMG RAAAAMSAYYYYYYYYY

  158. John-Michael Lelievre
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    Wow, that left me speechless…. definately need time to gather my thoughts. Probably the best hour of television I have ever seen.

  159. spacepope
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    that was a lot of changes from the book. i think just based on what happened, my guess is that that tower at the end was the house of the undying, and they tried to steal the dragons, and that will be the segue into getting danaerys in the house and having everything that happens there happen.

  160. Obsidian
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    Aleenys,

    No, you’re not alone. I really dislike most of the women’s costumes..A big disappointment for me. I think they could have found a way to be not quite like our history and still let them be flattering. Margaery’s are simply hideous. It’s a good thing we have some fine acting to admire.

  161. andrea
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    oh Knurk, I´m so sorry for your Irri! (khaleesi seemed more worried for her dragons)

  162. Maester Blaster
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    Now we know what additional plot lines they gave Dany in Quarth. It’s a dragonnapping plot. I bet they were taken to the house of the undying.

    Also, wow, Tonks.

    And the bastard of Bolton is coming. Be afraid Theon, very afraid.

  163. Brandon Stark
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    Outstanding episode. I loved the changes. For the first time, I didn’t quite know what to happen. I also liked that we got a little bit of every character. I didn’t feel cheated this week, and I loved the Jon/Ygritte interactions, the stuff with Arya, and Sansa. Man oh man.

  164. House Snow
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    Still think Dagmer could be RAmsey. He looks right for it IMO.

    Also Ygritte is HOT. I’m in love.

  165. AshStorm
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    Freaking awesome episode. Not perfect but probably my favorite one so far for the season.

    I didn’t expect them to open up with that scene let alone make it as intense as it was.

    Seven Hells!!!!

  166. David Thomas
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    OMG BEST EPISODE EVER. Loved it!!!!!! Can’t wait to find out what happened to the dragons.

    This was the FIRST EPISODE where I felt like I was watching a TV show and not an adaptation. It was so good that I forgot to make comparisons to the books. It was almost like the first time I really got to enjoy it.

    I am absolutely no longer a purist in any way. I completely trust these guys now. I was so upset about the peach (“what’s the point of chagning that one detail?”) that I couldn’t immerse myself in the episode, for example.

    This episode was so good that I didn’t even have to try. I just got lost in it. I feel like GoT as a TV series finally has just begun for me.

  167. Brandon Stark
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    Ms.Stormborn:
    Rose Leslie IS Ygritte!She rocks!

    She was outstanding. I’d break my vow.

  168. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    Gods be good. That may have been the best episode yet! We heard Sansa being called ‘Little Bird’, Joffrey got slapped, the Halfhand was badass, Dany was very badass, we got a San-San ship tease (see ‘Little Bird’ comment), we got to see Joffrey getting shit thrown at him, we saw Tywin snarking, we saw Ser Rodrik spit in Theon’s face, they didn’t go overboard on the sex scenes, the KL riot was well done, and they added a bit of (if you’ll pardon the pun) spice to Dany’s story. What’s not to love about this episode?

  169. Brandon Stark
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    David Thomas:

    This was the FIRST EPISODE where I felt like I was watching a TV show and not an adaptation. It was so good that I forgot to make comparisons to the books. It was almost like the first time I really got to enjoy it.

    Exactly how I felt. I’ve enjoyed the show up to this point, but I tend to follow along, thinking, “Oh, here comes Cersei to do this, and now Jon’s going to say this.” Tonight, I got sucked into it the way I would any other good TV show (Sopranos, etc) and let go of all that other stuff.

    I hope they continue to take risks and surprise me.

  170. DB
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    SANSAN
    SO BEAUTIFUL
    BUT NO LIKIE THE ALMOST-RAPE SCENE >:(

  171. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    Big losses, very sad, but exciting at the same time. Ygritte did not disappoint, nor did my Jaqen. Arya is getting too bold for her britches, and Dany left herself too open and is paying the price now. Next week will also be intense. Wait, every week is intense. That’s GOT.

  172. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    Maester Blaster:

    Also, wow, Tonks.

    Wait, what? Tonks? Where? Who?

  173. Andrew
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    WTF just happened…….This episode should be title “This Shit Never Happened”. I’m not a purist but they done FUCKED up.

  174. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    DB:
    SANSAN
    SO BEAUTIFUL
    BUT NO LIKIE THE ALMOST-RAPE SCENE >:(

    Hear, Hear! But did you see the look on Sandor’s face when he realized what they were planning to do his little bird? The look on his face almost had me looking around for Gregor, because he is one of the very few things that can make Sandor Clegane that angry!

  175. pachanga
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

    I’m truly disappointed with the episode as a whole… so much changes to a wonderful story… They have changed so much that there is no way of going back now.

  176. Brandon Stark
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    pachanga:
    I’m truly disappointed with the episode as a whole… so much changes to a wonderful story… They have changed so much that there is no way of going back now.

    All changes that make for a better TV show. There’s a book that tells one story. If you want that version, simply read it again. A television series needs to fit the medium.

  177. David
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    Very disappointing having Lorch die this way and not being kicked into the bearpit by Shagwell.

  178. Brandon Stark
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    David:
    Very disappointing having Lorch die this way and not being kicked into the bearpit by Shagwell.

    TV viewers have no idea who Lorch is, so they can kick anyone else in the bearpit down the line and it’ll have the same impact.

  179. Andrew
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    pachanga,

    I agree soooooo much. HBO has added scenes that do NOTHING for the story…and butcher the important aspects.

  180. pachanga
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    Brandon Stark,

    do you really think the last scene made better TV?? dragon abduction? cmon…

  181. House Snow
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    pachanga: I’m truly disappointed with the episode as a whole… so much changes to a wonderful story… They have changed so much that there is no way of going back now.

    How so? In fact what changed that changes the story so much. Lorch dying, not really a big deal. Everyone is still pretty much on the path they were on in the book.

  182. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    Brandon Stark: Exactly how I felt. I’ve enjoyed the show up to this point, but I tend to follow along, thinking, “Oh, here comes Cersei to do this, and now Jon’s going to say this.” Tonight, I got sucked into it the way I would any other good TV show (Sopranos, etc) and let go of all that other stuff.

    I hope they continue to take risks and surprise me.

    You guys are really making my mouth water, waiting eagerly for 9:00 Pacific time when the kid’s off to bed and I can sit back and enjoy the ride….

  183. pachanga
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    Andrew,

    Dont get me wrong. the episode, by itself its not sooo bad; but then again, if you compare it to what you know is supposed to happen… its really disappointing.

  184. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    Brandon Stark: TV viewers have no idea who Lorch is, so they can kick anyone else in the bearpit down the line and it’ll have the same impact.

    There won’t be a bear. They have enough problems with horses and dogs.

  185. Suzaku
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    If you want to experience the book story, read the books.

    It’s impossible for them to adapt the book word for word into a TV series. If that’s what you want, you have extremely unrealistic expectations for what an adaptation is.

    Maybe you should worry less about what little things are changing and just try to enjoy the show. I don’t see how anyone could possibly enjoy a show when they are apparantly only watching it to compare it to the books and find faults.

    GRRM is supervising the show and ensuring that they don’t make changes that will negatively impact the outcome of the series.

    Personally, I like it when they make changes. It’s nice as a reader of the books to occasionally be surprised when something happens differently.

  186. rara
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    pachanga:
    Brandon Stark,

    do you really think the last scene made better TV?? dragon abduction? cmon…

    Yes the dragon abduction is better than the books. It’s absolutely unrealistic that no one tried to steal her dragons in the book. Now, if you noticed, it was a warlock who stole her dragons. She’ll go to the HotD, burn it down, and get her dragons back. Then TA FUCKING DA, we’re back on track with the books.

  187. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    Andrew:
    pachanga,

    I agree soooooo much.HBO has added scenes that do NOTHING for the story…and butcher the important aspects.

    I haven’t seen it yet so don’t know yet if I agree with you, but keep in mind that everybody has their own ideas about what the “important aspects” are, including all the various people involved in producing this show, and sometimes they’re going to sacrifice individual moments where they think it serves the larger arc.

  188. Brandon Stark
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    rara: Yes the dragon abduction is better than the books. It’s absolutely unrealistic that no one tried to steal her dragons in the book. Now, if you noticed, it was a warlock who stole her dragons. She’ll go to the HotD, burn it down, and get her dragons back. Then TA FUCKING DA, we’re back on track with the books.

    Yep, exactly. If dragons are valuable and she’s a girl with 20 friends, why wouldn’t any of the powerful people of Qarth just take them? Well, in the book, they just didn’t feel like it, apparently. Here, they do what makes sense. “Hey, dragons are good. Let’s take them.” So it’s logical and also makes for better TV. Otherwise, it’s Dany sitting around in Qarth grovelling more.

  189. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    This one has no problem with the changes, as they are moving the important players in the appropriate directions nonetheless. Jon Snow got played! Ygritte did not say her famous words yet, but that smirk she had at the end of her scene was priceless and spoke a thousand words. Yes, there were changes from the book, like Lorch getting his reward tonight…but we don’t even know if there will be a bear in the TV version. Remember the budget is a finite thing. Very exciting episode. Scary and bloody but exciting. Hoping Theon will pay big time, this one would hope.

    New questions to ask at the end of each episode:

    1. Who do you love MORE now?
    Osha, Jon Snow, Jaqen (of course), Catelyn, always Dany, Tyrion

    2. Who do you HATE MORE now?
    THEON
    Littlefinger
    Joffrey (stupid schmuck)

    3. Who said the most with no words?
    Catelyn (that look at Rob after meeting the new Lady was priceless)
    Ygritte (smirk)
    Theon (conflicted for a few moments, but the dark side won)
    Arya (little sneak)
    Tyrion (terror in his eyes was palpable)
    Jaqen (looks at Arya with the “Well OK then” resignation)

    Discuss.

  190. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    House Snow: How so?In fact what changed that changes the story so much.Lorch dying, not really a big deal.Everyone is still pretty much on the path they were on in the book.

    Agreed. Same direction, different paths.

  191. Megan
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    Man oh man. I thought that rocked! I gotta say I am *really enjoying* the little liberties they are taking with the plot this season (and come on folks they are really doing very little to impact the overall arch of the story). Considering how fundamentally little they are changing, I think they’re really getting a lot of mileage out of those changes in terms of ease of adaptation of what is ultimately a very complex and ambling plot line to the small screen. And despite this, the tone and characters are (almost entirely) spot on! And as a reader of the books, doncha think it makes it much more interesting to watch when you aren’t anticipating every little thing that’s gonna happen? THE SUSPENSE!!

    also:

    Ygritte: Hallelujah.
    Theon: Brilliantly portrayed as a bag of d*cks.
    Riot scene: Omg so good. Limbs people! And poop-as-ballistics!
    Dragon stealing: brilliantly crafted device to get Dany (already pissed off!) to go to the House of the Undying. Because in the books if I recall she just sort of randomly shows up there cause she feels like it (?). Unless… it was Doreah!? She is obsessed w/ Dany’s dragons.

    wuff I could go on.. so good.

  192. pachanga
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    lol. I’m starting to feel like a terrorist over here…

    And all the “if you like the books, go read the books” comments. Come on, don’t be so childish. Peace.

  193. Andrew
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    pachanga,

    The first season took liberties with characters and events and I was fine with it….but this second season is taking WAY too many liberties. It would be one thing if the show ran for an entire hour and they cut out the ridiculous sex scenes and botched cliffhangers/Pivotal moments.

  194. The Instrumentalist
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    When Osha started to undress… I was like damn! And I hope they do a good job of Robb falling for Talima-whatever/Jeyne. I’m a little thrown as to where that’s going.

    A lot of people said this already, but Ygritte was awesome! When she was rubbing up against Jon… XD I love all the changes to the story thus far. So excited for next week!

  195. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    rara: Yes the dragon abduction is better than the books. It’s absolutely unrealistic that no one tried to steal her dragons in the book. Now, if you noticed, it was a warlock who stole her dragons. She’ll go to the HotD, burn it down, and get her dragons back. Then TA FUCKING DA, we’re back on track with the books.

    Yes. This.

  196. Megan
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    It would be one thing if the show ran for an entire hour and they cut out the ridiculous sex scenes and botched cliffhangers/Pivotal moments.

    Yeah, I take your point. The sex scenes this season have kindof seemed like predominantly (at times kindof unsexy) filler to me, which I mean, it’s not like they really need. I think the most substantial plot changes have been stellar though. And at the same time. Meh. It’s TV not g-d- crime and punishment. T&A forever!

  197. bella
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 10:49 pm | Permalink

    wow i did not want to see that almost rape scene with sansa

  198. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    Brandon Stark: Yep, exactly. If dragons are valuable and she’s a girl with 20 friends, why wouldn’t any of the powerful people of Qarth just take them? Well, in the book, they just didn’t feel like it, apparently. Here, they do what makes sense. “Hey, dragons are good. Let’s take them.” So it’s logical and also makes for better TV. Otherwise, it’s Dany sitting around in Qarth grovelling more.

    Well said! Agreed.

  199. Eor
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

    StarkBlood:
    Jeda,

    I think they will substitute Ros for Alayaya

    Very likely, I’d assume. Originally when they sent her to King’s Landing I thought she was going to take the place of Shae, but that didn’t happen. When I saw she owned a brothel I thought she’d take the place of Alayaya, which again so far hasn’t happened but there’s still episodes left for me to not be wrong twice

  200. Biscotti
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

    1. Scotti has said before, and Scotti will say again. WiC.net needs a forum already!!!!!

    2. Wow, Scotti can’t believe the stuff Ms Antonsson writes online, especially with such a public profile. Scotti understands she is wanting to defend herself from criticism, real or imagined, and give her opinions on the show or others, reasonable or unreasonable. But Scotti can’t believe that she says it in such a negative, angry and frankly unbecoming way. In fact Scotti is shocked by how much she seems to dislike. From their personal website: “I am also prone to more than a bit of “doom and gloom”… lol.. cheer up, Linda! Don’t be such a “negative nancy”!

  201. Mormont
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    Wow! Im pretty sure that Jeyne is writing letters to Tywin! She addmited it, playing it off as a sarcastic remark. Well done D&D

  202. Laura T.
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

    Final thought before bed. I think Lady Talisa is a spy for the Lannisters & that she wrote the letter that Arya stole from Tywin’s table. I think the joke about her writing to the Lannisters was in fact the truth of the matter. I also think that they are changing the Jayne Westerling storyline to make her the deciever (not her mother) but if you readers recall Lady Westerling was formerly Lady Spicer, whose family originally came from somewhere across the Narrow Sea (could have been Volantis), Kevan Lannister’s son was offered Jayne’s hand but he refused because Lady Westerling’s family was percieved as treacherous & lowborn (her grand or great grandfather was a spice dealer, hence the last name Spicer & her grand or great grandmother was a maege, possibly the same woman who later gives Cersei her “valenquor” proficy. I think this is a way to tie in a lot of backstory (there is even a mention in Dany’s TV scene about a merchant who won’t help her because the Lannister’s are his biggest customers…..I’ve learned that in GOT nothing is a coincidence). What are your thoughts?

  203. Laura T.
    Posted May 6, 2012 at 11:58 pm | Permalink

    Mormont,

    I just wrote the same thing. Great minds think alike & the fact that I’m not the only one thinking it makes me more certain. Read me rationale & tell me what you think.

  204. Mormont
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 12:04 am | Permalink

    Laura T.,

    Yup ur explanation makes it almost a lock too. The fact that one of the spice dealers says he trades with Lannisters was a very subtle hint. George Martinesque

  205. Maester Tcost
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 4:36 am | Permalink

    Of course it was Doreah who made off with the dragons — they made a point in Episode 5 of the fact that the little black dragon loved her (Dany said just that) and they trust her. Doreah may have saved them from the invaders but I think that either she is ensorcelled by the Warlocks or that Dany will have another betrayal — Doreah was Viserys’ lover, and she may have loved him.

    Boy, I hope I’m wrong; I’ve always liked Doreah.

  206. Magnus
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    Maester Tcost,

    Doreah obviously didn’t love Viserys.

  207. rolle
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    AARGHH!
    First they rob Jaime of his sword skills and now they make him a retard.
    Shame, this would have been a top3 episode but instead they ruined the show and my life.

  208. Remaal
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    Laura T.,
    Mormont,

    Yes. I think at this point we’re all meant to think it is Talisa who wrote the letter Arya stole. But is it a red herring? The way Roose dissuaded Robb from going back north to retake Winterfell, but to send his bastard son instead, was also played in a way that came off a bit fishy, or at least it did to me.

    I’m still not sure which of them did it. I get the feeling that D&D are setting up Roose as someone who, unlike the books, decided early on – possibly after Renly’s death and Stannis’ rejection of an alliance – to betray Robb and usurp his seat as warden of the North. Perhaps they’re both writing letters to Tywin.

  209. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    rolle: AARGHH!First they rob Jaime of his sword skills and now they make him a retard.Shame, this would have been a top3 episode but instead they ruined the show and my life.

    A person with dyslexia is a retard? What kind of retard would make such a stupid statement?

    Edit: I assume you’re joking here, but still….

  210. Laura T.
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Remaal,

    I like what you’re saying & in fact I’m rereading ASOS with the idea of when Bolton truely decides to betray Rob. I’m guessing way back in Harrenhall when he sends most of the men to Duskendale. I think it’s Tyrion who sounds surprised & say’s something to the effect of what the hell is worth fighting for in Duskendale (nothing but it puts Rob’s army between two of the Lannisters).

  211. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    Steven Swanson: A person with dyslexia is a retard? What kind of retard would make such a stupid statement?

    Edit: I assume you’re joking here, but still….

    I agree with Steven. In fact, as someone who has a learning disability, I was quite offended by this comment. Just because someone has a learning disability, it doesn’t mean that they are stupid. And if it was a joke, it was in very bad taste

  212. Dave in DC
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    I am really shocked to see so many people on board with all of the changes to the story line. I guess I was simply looking for “visuals” to follow my minds eye with respect to the books. What we’re getting is a set of fundamental re-writes. This is particularly surprising given the fact that the first season followed the first book so closely.

    I am guessing they decided to mix books 2 and 3 into one season, and I would assume books 4 and 5 into the next, so they can in some way catch up with the writing. But I have abandoned all of my own preconceived notions of what I expected and will watch the show for what it is, a Game of Thrones in name only and a story that includes some of the same characters. At least I get to be surprised. ;)

  213. rolle
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    wargsareawesome: I agree with Steven. In fact, as someone who has a learning disability, I was quite offended by this comment. Just because someone has a learning disability, it doesn’t mean that they are stupid. And if it was a joke, it was in very bad taste

    Person with learning difficulties is offensively known as a retard. My whole message was about Jaime not you guys so please don’t be offended.

  214. Dark Star
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    I agree with so much of what some say, and so little of what some others say. OK.

    I like that there are changes. As a viewer, it keeps me in suspense. Could the RW have a different outcome?? That could make things interesting.

    And I don’t think the first season followed the first book that closely. Granted all the stories ended up in the same place, but many of the scenes in that season NEVER occurred in that book.

    Anyway, I too miss the Reeds, am glad that Bolton’s bastard is a reality, and am loving this season so far. And as far as the missing dragons, “Where’s my chippy’?

  215. bastaki
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    am i the only one bug’d that the halfhand is right handed?

  216. Houndess
    Posted May 8, 2012 at 2:18 am | Permalink

    LordStarkington,

    I did more than sigh, my heart stopped I think, especially when he called her “little bird”


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