GRRM provides an update on season 3
By Winter Is Coming on in Casting, Production.

In a post on his Not A Blog, George R. R. Martin provides a short update on the progress of season three.

I finished and delivered my script for season three of GAME OF THRONES. It’s episode 307, with the working title “Autumn Storms.” David and Dan seem to like it. Casting is in full swing for the new season, so I’m watching auditions every night. Froggy may be turning up soon, but don’t hold your breath. I’m too busy to devote much time to whipping up obscure clues.

Winter Is Coming: It seems like most, if not all, the scripts for season three have been finished. And now we have official confirmation of casting being underway. It sounds like they may even be close on a few roles. Can’t wait until those casting announcements start rolling in!


139 Comments

  1. Black Lion
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    I am so excited for new Froggies. Hope George will find time to mess with us through his convoluted casting hints.

  2. Ye Olde Wolfe
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Is Froggy a term he uses for something related to casting? Or is that a hint at the Reeds?

  3. Samantha Hirst
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Ye Olde Wolfe:
    Is Froggy a term he uses for something related to casting? Or is that a hint at the Reeds?

    Froggy is an avatar he uses on his ‘Not a Blog’ when he posts casting clues.

  4. fiendebass
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Any speculations on the “Im writing Dothraki” comment for Book 6?

  5. Black Lion
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    fiendebass,

    Obviously it has to do with Dany, Drogon and Mago. How this particular storyline will unfold is pretty much unpredictable. There is a good deal of chance that Dany will return to Mereen, but other than that I have no idea what George has in his mind.

  6. Conor
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    So excited for casting announcements and clues!!

  7. Ninepenny
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    I hope we see lots of Froggy because that is oodles of fun – much better than just being told. If GRRM doesn’t have the time to do it then WiC staff should be given the casting information and charged with posting clues and then letting people know when they got it right.

  8. Maester Victor
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    DOTHRAKIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. Thiago Slash
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    this made my morning! awesome news

  10. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    Lol, i’m sorry but some people are really obsessed with the Reeds . I would like to know what is so good about them aside from being obvious plot devices ?

  11. Macha
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    Brace yourselves, the casting -gates are coming.

    PS: Loved the paragraph where he writes about what he’s been reading lately. ;)

  12. John
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Long time lurker, was hoping you guys would like my Game of Thrones music video!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=curNb2G1A64&feature=plcp

  13. Eddie
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    Hey George RR Martin: FINISH YOUR DAMN BOOKS FIRST!

  14. sjwenings
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    Eddie: FINISH YOUR DAMN BOOKS FIRST!

    Before what?

  15. Mark
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Eddie,

    I hope that he watches the audition films after writing Winds of Winter.

    NO 5 YEAR GAPS ANYMORE. WINDS OF WINTER, JULY 2014. MAKE IT HAPPEN GEORGE

  16. Entropy
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    Eddie:
    Hey George RR Martin: FINISH YOUR DAMN BOOKS FIRST!

    Seriously… Before what?

  17. Jambo
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Eddie:
    Hey George RR Martin: FINISH YOUR DAMN BOOKS FIRST!

    Follow the link to his full blog post, and read it….

  18. Winterfell Burning
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    Autumn storms…huh. I think this is the episode before the Red Wedding which I’m sure D&D will want to write themselves.

    So, I’m guessing S03 ends with Joffrey’s murder

  19. tony
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    Book is never getting finished, guy is doing too many things at once

  20. oracle86
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    Does anyone have scans of the Peter Dinklage article of this issue of Rolling Stone? He’s on the cover too.

  21. Alexander Dubrovsky
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu:
    Lol, i’m sorry but some people are really obsessed with the Reeds . I would like to know what is so good about them aside from being obvious plot devices ?

    I have no idea. I’d be glad if they are cut from the series. IMO, Jojen is one of the most annoying characters in the books.

  22. The Rabbit
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    mmmmm…I like this part of the process!

    I ll re-post my speculation from the other post: I think they started a bit earlier this year with casting – which could be the confirmation of the end of June start of filming.

    Back to casting: GRRM obviously is not going to confirm the characters this year as he used to do it. So, it is left to our guessess:

    So far we speculated of: Ramsay S., Daario, Mance, Tormund and who else?
    I think it is too early for Oberyn – they would need him in S4.

  23. Tolgeros
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    GRRM can do whatever he wants, but it seems apparent to me that it would be in his (and HBO’s) best interests for him to finish/put aside some of his non-TWoW projects so that he can focus on the book series a bit more. They are his magnum opus, and with the show so dependent on his source material, it’s kind of important that he wraps these books up within a few years.

    2011: AGoT
    2012: ACoK
    2013: ASoS part 1
    2014: ASoS part 2
    2015: AFfC/ADwD part 1
    2016: AFfC/ADwD part 2

    Assuming this format (and that we’re lucky enough to get that far), he needs to get TWoW out by 2016, and perhaps one or two years later he’ll need ADoS. It would be a bit awkward if the show caught up to him and then surpassed him. And I’m not even going to mention that he is not exactly the picture of health and that, like with Robert Jordan, there is a very real possibility he might not finish.

    But as I said, he can do whatever he likes. I’m just saying that, from where I’m sitting, TWoW seems a lot more important than Wild Cards.

  24. Remaal
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    So, he said Froggy (singular) not plural, is he insinuating that there will only be one Reed cast, not 2? I’m thinking yes, probably Meera.

  25. SeVv
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    Remaal,

    Samantha Hirst: Froggy is an avatar he uses on his ‘Not a Blog’ when he posts casting clues.

  26. Weirwood
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    oracle86:
    Does anyone have scans of the Peter Dinklage article of this issue of Rolling Stone? He’s on the cover too.

    I’ve only seen the cover online, so far….

    http://hbowatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/578072_10150779834717734_421226860_n.jpg

  27. markazus
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    The Rabbit,

    I am hoping that with season 3 we would be given the proper introduction of Riverrun that has not been given previously, and therefore the introduction of:

    The Blackfish, Edmure Tully and possibly Lord Hoster Tully.

    Other than that, maybe Thoros of Myr and Beric Dondarrion, the Reeds, and Strong Belwas?

  28. oracle86
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Weirwood: I’ve only seen the cover online, so far….

    http://hbowatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/578072_10150779834717734_421226860_n.jpg

    It apparently came out on May 11th, so I hoped someone would have scanned the pages by now…

  29. Richard
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Not trying to incite anything, but when does George find the time to continue writing his books in the midst of working on the TV series?

  30. Alexander Dubrovsky
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    They are his magnum opus, and with the show so dependent on his source material, it’s kind of important that he wraps these books up within a few years.

    For me, it’s pretty obvious by now that the writers of the show will be just fine if GRRM gives them a general outline of everything big that he plans for the last two books.

  31. Remaal
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    SeVv,

    Oh I see. Thank you for clearing that up for me. :) I never read his blog unless it’s for a gift chapter, so I’m not really familiar with his jargon.

  32. Richard
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    Tolgeros:
    2011: AGoT
    2012: ACoK
    2013: ASoS part 1
    2014: ASoS part 2
    2015: AFfC/ADwD part 1
    2016: AFfC/ADwD part 2

    from the stuff I’ve read, it’s not going to play out like that, from Season 3 onward they are pretty much putting the remaining books in a blender and coming up with 10 episodes at a time. As DnD stated before, they are adapting the series overall, not rigidly going book by book.

  33. sjwenings
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Richard: Not trying to incite anything, but when does George find the time to continue writing his books in the midst of working on the TV series?

    (He could) almost all the time, since he doesn’t do much for the TV-series. How much he actually does, is up for speculation.

  34. Dondarrion
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    All the scripts done? I highly doubt that. It’s only been a month since the show was renewed. These are most likely just the first drafts.

  35. Arthur
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    That is awesome!

    The casting announcements are just as fun as watching new episodes!

  36. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    You know, I’m not really one to worry about how someone lives their life, but G.R.R.M. sure has a way of annoying the ever-loving shit out of me when I read his blog posts (which is why I usually don’t), if only for the fact that he just seems to have lost enthusiasm for ASoI&F altogether. Based on the last two books, TWoW needs to be released sooner rather than later, because I don’t think anyone is cool waiting another five years for the conclusions we should have gotten in ADwD.

    And before anyone jumps down my throat, let me just say that anyone who is willing to publicly lambast somebody over how their story fell apart (ol’ Georgie to Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse of “Lost”) should have made damn sure that he knew where his story was headed (and if he already knows, then put the damn words on paper!) before running off at the mouth. It’s time to cut the archaic “I can only work at home on my favoritest typewriter…” shit, and get to work.

    Rant done. I blame it on the hangover.

  37. Remaal
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    Richard:
    Not trying to incite anything, but when does George find the time to continue writing his books in the midst of working on the TV series?

    In an Eastercon interview with Adam Whitehead, recorded in April, when asked how TWOW was going (around 1:04:50 mark), GRRM replied that he had a lot on his plate (maps and short stories), and that he had to clear the decks before he could get back to it. I took his meaning as that he hasn’t really started yet.

    So in answer to your question, I would guess he doesn’t. However, I still believe that we can reasonably expect to see TWOW released sometime around Spring/Summer 2015.

  38. KG
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    oracle86,

    Go buy it.

  39. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Dondarrion:
    All the scripts done? I highly doubt that. It’s only been a month since the show was renewed. These are most likely just the first drafts.

    They started working on the scripts way before the renewal was announced . Hell, they may have started at the beginning of the year .

  40. Meg
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Whoa, he is super busy. Looking at all those projects and travels I don’t foresee much WoW work this year. Even if he does publish it before the series reaches the end of Dance, I’m curious if he would have time to write the last book. I’m also curious if book 7 would even be the last book, since in interviews he’s playing coy with the number of books again.

  41. The Kingslayer
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    With the way Dany’s story ended in ADWD I really doubt the series will finish with seven, unless they borrow Littlefinger’s super fast teleportation skills has in the show.

  42. Ours is the Fury
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    People can’t work on a book twenty four hours a day. There’s room for other things in GRRM’s life, and it’s actually better for the ASOIAF books if he isn’t burnt out and only allowed to write TWoW. We all want more books, but it’s his life and he has never been a speedy writer.

    I don’t think we’ll get many casting clues from him as well because the show’s become too popular- they spread the casting announcements of the more notable characters to different press outlets before the second season and I assume they’ll do that again. We’ll never get loads of fun Froggy clues again like we did for the first season. Ah, nostalgia. :)

  43. The Rabbit
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Ah nostalgia…yes!

    Fury, I have a question for you:
    Have vistited yout Tumblr the other day. I saw a post by someone about the role already cast. Do you think it could be legit or just a tease from someone?

  44. tony
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Im sure Bantam would love it if the show surpasses the books…..

  45. Ours is the Fury
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    The Rabbit,

    I trust the person who posted it, and she heard it from a friend, so it probably is legit as far as she knows. But since she can’t say anything about who and what role, it’s hard to verify anything. But it’s a terrible tease! :)

  46. PatD
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    I have a lot of other books to read, so I don’t really care when he finishes the series. When it gets done, I’ll buy it. I’m just glad D&D know how the whole thing ends.

  47. The Rabbit
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Thanks :) yes it is terrible tease!

  48. Alan
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets:
    You know, I’m not really one to worry about how someone lives their life, but G.R.R.M. sure has a way of annoying the ever-loving shit out of me when I read his blog posts (which is why I usually don’t), if only for the fact that he just seems to have lost enthusiasm for ASoI&F altogether. Based on the last two books, TWoW needs to be released sooner rather than later, because I don’t think anyone is cool waiting another five years for the conclusions we should have gotten in ADwD.

    And before anyone jumps down my throat, let me just say that anyone who is willing to publicly lambast somebody over how their story fell apart (ol’ Georgie to Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse of “Lost”) should have made damn sure that he knew where his story was headed (and if he already knows, then put the damn words on paper!) before running off at the mouth. It’s time to cut the archaic “I can only work at home on my favoritest typewriter…” shit, and get to work.

    Rant done. I blame it on the hangover.

    Perhaps if all the folks who complain about what George works on offered to do whatever job George asked of them — perhaps he’d ask you to quit your job and join the Peace Corp or something similar — then George would work on exactly what you want or when you want.

    As long as we’re calling out what people say.

    Anyway, what Martin said about Lost was simply that he wanted to spend time on his story so he didn’t have a disappointing ending like Lost. It was a criticism, but a) it’s irrelevant to the timing of his story and b) the context was not calling anyone out.

    Ours is the Fury is right about creative endeavors — and most creative people can’t simply bull through things (though hard work is part of it). It’s entirely possible he’s somewhat burned out after just churning on ADwD. Who knows? And who knows how much work he actually does on the other things, like the anthologies.

    But more importantly, you realize that you want to dictate the professional life of someone you don’t even know?

  49. The Red Wedding
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    Cant wait for season 3 ,I hope we will see the reeds

  50. The Red Wedding
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    Whatever anyone says you can’t rush masterpiece such as winds of winter ,GRRM will finish the book in his own time

  51. The Red Wedding
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Well said about GRRM

  52. The Red Wedding
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    People can’t work on a book twenty four hours a day. There’s room for other things in GRRM’s life, and it’s actually better for the ASOIAF books if he isn’t burnt out and only allowed to write TWoW. We all want more books, but it’s his life and he has never been a speedy writer.

    I don’t think we’ll get many casting clues from him as well because the show’s become too popular- they spread the casting announcements of the more notable characters to different press outlets before the second season and I assume they’ll do that again. We’ll never get loads of fun Froggy clues again like we did for the first season. Ah, nostalgia. :)

    Well said ,GRRM will take his time and whatever we say isn’t gonna make him write any faster

  53. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    Spare me. I’m not trying to dictate anything that man does in his life; I’m simply stating that the guy is an annoying shit (should I give some kind of disclaimer about this being my opinion at this point?) who shouldn’t chide others over the endings to their work when he seems to be going down a similar path of disappointment. Since you don’t seem to know what he said about the ending of Lost, you can check it out at this link:

    http://nerdbastards.com/2011/04/18/george-r-r-martin-still-hates-the-ending-of-lost/

    Certainly a bit more than ‘wanting to spend time on his own story to avoid a disappoiting ending’. And as far as anyone can tell, he’s not spending much time on that at all. But you’re right, maybe I should quit my job to help George with some of these pressing matters so he can get back to work on TWoW… Or not. He’s the multi-millionaire writer, whose job it is to write. Right? He can take as long as he feels necessary to finish the series if that’s his perogative, and I’ll continue to have every right to think the guy should get his ass in gear and give the millions of people who made him rich a satisfying ending to ASoI&F.

    And one last thing: D&D are “bulling through” their creative endeavor to bring this story to the screen with barely any time to themselves and doing a damn fine job. They’re enthused about what they are doing, and are showing the commitment necessary to adapt such a massive project. In my experience working in film and television, focus, persistence, and perhaps most importantly, a deadline have always amounted to the best finished product – not a leisurely pace and constant distractions. I’m here because I’m a fan of ASoI&F and Game of Thrones; not because I’m a fan of G.R.R.M.

    I’m not saying he should listen to my complaints and use them as motivation; he can take as long as he likes. But maybe he shouldn’t disregard the work of people who do have a time table, and don’t have the luxury of taking however long they like to tell their stories and finish them in a satisfying manner.

    Anyway, sorry I offended your friend, Alan.

  54. lannisport
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    The Reeds, The Reeds, The Reeds, blah, blah, blah, BOOOORRRIIINNGGGG!! Seriously change the record. I hope they do get cut just to shut people up after 2 years of going on.

    Now lets have The Viper, Beric, Thoros, Ramsay, Mance, Shereen and Val please. Actual interesting and cool characters!

  55. Dreamlife
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    When I read GRRM’s blog I inevitably come away irritated. He cares more about the stupid NFL, selling signed books, and promoting his other projects than the one everyone actually cares about: A Song of Ice and Fire. I wish he would finish this series and then move on to his other projects full time rather than taking his sweet old time teasing TWOW. The longer he drags it out, the less interest he seems to have in the project (other than the money he’s making off it).

    Anyway, as much as I’d love to finish READING the series, I fear I will have to get the conclusion through HBO. I don’t care if the series catches up to the books—I actually welcome it. I hope the series surpasses the books so we can start getting answers and wrapping up character storylines.

  56. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    “Reading. I just finished THE KING’S BLOOD, the second volume of Daniel Abraham’s “Dagger and Coin” series. Books like this remind me why I love epic fantasy. Yes, I’m prejudiced, Daniel is a friend and sometime collaborator… but damn, that was a good book. Great world, great characters, thoroughly engrossing story. The only problem was, it ended too soon. I want more. I want to know what happens to Cithrin, and Marcus, and Geder, and Clara. And I want to know NOW. God damn you, Daniel Abraham. I know for a fact that you are writing more Expanse books with Ty, and more urban fantasies as M.L.N. Hanover, and doing short stories for some hack anthologist, and scripting some goddamn COMIC BOOK, and even sleeping with your wife and playing with your daughter. STOP ALL THAT AT ONCE, and get to writing on the next Dagger and Coin. I refuse to wait.”

    - George R.R. Martin (no doubt this was meta, but still…)

  57. Meg
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    lol pastor, I didnt even notice that.

  58. The Red Wedding
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    lannisport:
    The Reeds, The Reeds, The Reeds, blah, blah, blah, BOOOORRRIIINNGGGG!! Seriously change the record. I hope they do get cut just to shut people up after 2 years of going on.

    Now lets have The Viper, Beric, Thoros, Ramsay, Mance, Shereen and Val please. Actual interesting and cool characters!

    Haha so true ,would love to see the viper and the sand snakes??? I cannot remember their names .didnt beric come in season 1 ??? I think we will see Mande in the next few episodes ???

  59. Lex
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Sadly, in my heart I’ve given up on the books ever being finished.

    I read the series 11 years ago, waited 5 years for AFFC, and nearly 6 years for ADWD… and although I definitely enjoyed the last two books (more than most people, apparently), I also think they’re the weakest in the series. I’d love to see a conclusion one day, but the only way to avoid heartbreaking disappointment is to prepare myself for the worst. I’ll still be happy for the first 3 books, regardless.

    Anyways, I honestly have no idea which of the following scenarios will come true:

    A) GRRM finishes the series, just barely managing to get Books 6 and 7 out before the show catches up with him. The show reaches its conclusion, shortly afterwards.

    B) GRRM eventually finishes the series, but the show catches up and passes him first, giving us an HBO version of the conclusion before the book version.

    C) For whatever reason, GRRM does NOT finish the books. The HBO show gives us the only conclusion we’ll ever get.

    D) GRRM does NOT finish the books, HBO does NOT finish the series (cancelling somewhere around Season 4). We never find out how it all ends.

  60. KG
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    The Red Wedding,

    That’s what they said about A Dance With Dragons, and it is far from a masterpiece lol I only fall for an excuse once.

  61. SugarVampire
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Good for you. Same here. Just enjoy the speculations in westeros in the meantime.

  62. Pepi
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    I’m not sure if it’s entirely fair to call ADWD a masterpiece (or otherwise). ASoIaF should be, imo, judged as a whole and not one book at a time … every book can’t have an event equivalentl to the red wedding or Ned’s execution. There has to be some setup at some point and book 5 is, as far as I’m concerned, just that. A setup. For the upcoming events. That said, I still enjoyed it. Especially during the second read, when I picked up some of the details, that I previously missed. Honestly, the only thing that I disliked about book five, was Tyrion’s development. He was anoying as hell with those constant mentionings of “the crossbow”.

  63. RabbitStew
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,
    For me it’s a link to the crannogmen => Howland Reed => thoughts that he knows the truth of Jon’s parentage

  64. ace
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    D) GRRM does NOT finish the books, HBO does NOT finish the series (cancelling somewhere around Season 4). We never find out how it all ends.

    …. a generation of people without a closure :(

  65. Delta1212
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Tolgeros:
    And I’m not even going to mention that he is not exactly the picture of health and that, like with Robert Jordan, there is a very real possibility he might not finish.

    And yet, you did.

  66. Alexander Dubrovsky
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Pepi:
    I’m not sure if it’s entirely fair to call ADWD a masterpiece (or otherwise). ASoIaF should be, imo, judged as a whole and not one book at a time … every book can’t have an event equivalentl to the red wedding or Ned’s execution. There has to be some setup at some point and book 5 is, as far as I’m concerned, just that. A setup. For the upcoming events. That said, I still enjoyed it. Especially during the second read, when I picked up some of the details, that I previously missed. Honestly, the only thing that I disliked about book five, was Tyrion’s development. He was anoying as hell with those constant mentionings of “the crossbow”.

    A 1000 pages long setup says that you have no idea what’s going on with your story.
    It wasn’t all setup, but I’d be more than happy if ADWD would lose all the Essos chapters and if this this continent would never be mentioned again.

  67. Remaal
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    To be honest, I find GRRM finishing the series, as doubtful as that may seem, a much more likely event than HBO finishing it. How many hour long HBO shows do we know that lasted longer than 6 seasons? I can’t think of any. Let alone HBO shows that cost on average between $5-7 million/episode to produce.
    I can see GOT easily making it to 4 seasons. 5 & 6, I’ll believe only when I read that press release. 7 & beyond, I can’t even bring myself to contemplate at this point.

  68. oracle86
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    KG:
    oracle86,

    Go buy it.

    I’m in India. We don’t get the mag here. :(

  69. oracle86
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets:

    Have you read this post by Neil Gaiman?

    And a guy made it into a song too! :)

    http://scifisongs.blogspot.in/2009/08/sci-fi-song-20-george-rr-martin-is-not.html

  70. Knurk
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Pepi: ASoIaF should be, imo, judged as a whole and not one book at a time …

    this is a bad argument, a book should be judged on its own merits. Although I would accept this argument if this setup would be answered in some kind of satisfaction (be it to my liking or not) in a book that would be released quickly after. Alas, we all know it’ll be at least another 2 years before we get some sort of conclusion to ADWD. I strongly advise everyone to read Mark Twain’s Rules of Writing, he wrote a hilarious essay in which he powned Fenimore Cooper, and a lot of his rules can also be applied to ADWD (or AFFC, although I actually quite liked that book): http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/hns/indians/offense.html When you read it just replace the Deerslayer with ADWD and Fenimore Cooper with GRRM.

    This essay shows in some simple points why ADWD was a very dissatisfying book for a lot of fans (not all points are valid for ADWD though, but definitely most of them). And these rules were written 100 bloody years ago!

    Alexander Dubrovsky: but I’d be more than happy if ADWD would lose all the Essos chapters and if this this continent would never be mentioned again.

    lol, nuke the bastards, give them their own Doom and the Knot is solved!

  71. Dan
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Besides True Blood & Boardwalk Empire, Game of Thrones is one of HBO’s top shows. No way, GoT gets cancelled anytime soon. I see GoT going the full run. This show gets get good press for HBO, has a large international following, and will only continue to get more popular with each additional season.

    Big question is whether show runners Dan & David will stick around to see it to the end.

  72. Christmas is coming
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    I completely agree, i was at a pub last night and I was talking to these two guys about game of thrones, they got into a physical fight about the reeds..that’s how serious people take the reeds..

    I wish George would post an update about the next book, cmon George!! As you say winter is coming!

  73. Remaal
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    Pepi,

    2000 pages (AFFC & ADWD are essentially one book) of set up?

    I liked AFFC, not because the book was terribly good, more because I enjoyed the characters it covered, but ADWD I found to be mystifyingly bad.

  74. Knurk
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    oracle86: Have you read this post by Neil Gaiman?

    And a guy made it into a song too! :)

    http://scifisongs.blogspot.in/2009/08/sci-fi-song-20-george-rr-martin-is-not.html

    try read these instead, far more eloquent and to the point than Neil Gaiman’s annoying catchphrase:

    http://www.scifinow.co.uk/blog/brent-weeks-opinion-column-george-rr-martin-is-not-your-bitch/

    http://www.alanbaxteronline.com/2011/11/16/writers-bitches-investment-readers.html

  75. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    oracle86,

    Seen it. Don’t care. Never said he was my bitch, so I’m wondering if you even read my posts. I don’t care when he comes out with the next book, that’s on him. But he shouldn’t talk shit about other peoples’ endings when his last two books were a considerable step down in quality from the first three, and when he’s not even close to approaching the end of his own series. My line of thinking is that if he’s going to bash other people for how they handled concluding their stories, he’d better be able to put his money where his mouth is. And if AFfC & ADwD (which I liked both of them, to be fair) are any indication, he’s treading down the path of the pot calling the kettle black. Maybe I happen to believe that ol’ Georgie is just stalling.

  76. Leuf
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    I’d rather just be realistic about things than negative towards GRRM. The man has been successful. What’s the point of it if you don’t get to enjoy your life? So if it takes him another 5 years to get the next book out because he’s too busy traveling and doing other things that’s fine by me, so long as it’s a good book when it does comes out. I’ve been waiting on David Gerrold to put out the next book in the Chtorr series for almost 20 years now, GRRM can’t touch that guy in pissing readers off.

    But the show has to act accordingly. They are going to get ahead of him if they don’t get cancelled first. It’s inevitable. Hopefully they’ve discussed this privately. Hopefully there is a plan. I cannot see GRRM allowing them to tell “his” ending to the series before he has the chance to write it, even accounting for all the minor butterfly effects of the changes they have already made and will continue to make. I think they have to take the ending to a very different place from where the books will end, and they should act accordingly in working towards that sooner rather than later. That can really free them up to dodge some of the low points of Feast and Dance.

  77. Knurk
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Leuf: I’ve been waiting on David Gerrold to put out the next book in the Chtorr series for almost 20 years now, GRRM can’t touch that guy in pissing readers off.

    lol holy shit, 20 years! I feel for you man.

  78. Ben Watson
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Eddie:
    Hey George RR Martin: FINISH YOUR DAMN BOOKS FIRST!

    Calm down, man. Hell, that Richard Castle guy has time to go hang out at the police department practically every day and still churns out a best seller every year or two. I’m sure GRRM will be fine.

  79. Andrew
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    Very excited! The casting clues are always really fun to hear, so I hope we do get one or two. For a second though, I thought by Froggy he literally meant we might see Quentyn Martell in season 3, since the Windblown always called him Hopfrog.

  80. Dan
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    I really want to read the next two books in this series, but if they never come out I’ll take solace in the tears of all the people crying about him not writing fast enough.

  81. Alexander Dubrovsky
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    Knurk,

    lol, nuke the bastards, give them their own Doom and the Knot is solved!

    I’m thinking about starting a movement named “Destroy Essos and kill every character that sets foot in this godforsaken plot-halting shithole”. Of course I will mourn Tyrion, Barristan and Victarion, but extraordinary times require extraordinary measures.

    I’m glad I’ve started to read Malazan Book Of The Fallen series after it was completed, even if it took Steven Eriksson only 1-1.5 years to write those 1200-pages long books.

  82. Ye Olde Wolfe
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Firstly, to the people bitching about the quick mention of the Reeds, that wasn’t because I love them, but because I’m not familiar with his lingo in regards to his casting posts. It was curiosity, not hope.

    Pastor_of_Muppets:
    “Reading. I just finished THE KING’S BLOOD, the second volume of Daniel Abraham’s “Dagger and Coin” series. Books like this remind me why I love epic fantasy. Yes, I’m prejudiced, Daniel is a friend and sometime collaborator… but damn, that was a good book. Great world, great characters, thoroughly engrossing story. The only problem was, it ended too soon. I want more. I want to know what happens to Cithrin, and Marcus, and Geder, and Clara. And I want to know NOW. God damn you, Daniel Abraham. I know for a fact that you are writing more Expanse books with Ty, and more urban fantasies as M.L.N. Hanover, and doing short stories for some hack anthologist, and scripting some goddamn COMIC BOOK, and even sleeping with your wife and playing with your daughter. STOP ALL THAT AT ONCE, and get to writing on the next Dagger and Coin. I refuse to wait.”

    - George R.R. Martin (no doubt this was meta, but still…)

    I don’t see how anyone could POSSIBLY use this quote as an argument. Clearly it’s a jab at folks like you who don’t realize he’s a busy man. These are massive books with a lot of little details that need to be right. And if you’re so concerned about him not knowing where he’s going, I would reference you to every GRRM interview over the past year in which he says HE KNOWS HOW IT WILL END, it’s just a matter of finding the threads to get there. I wouldn’t be so concerned about how it ends, but I understand you being concerned about the stuff between now and then.
    Do I want the books finished sooner than later? Of course, but if it means him being given deadlines and sacrificing quality? Hell no. Quit acting so damn self-entitled to a series that you’re fortunate to even have.

  83. MATTHEW
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    Stop berating GRRM for not churning out novels TO ENTERAIN YOU quickly enough. Write your own speedily penned opuses and let GRRM do his thing in his own time.

    He ain’t your b*tch

  84. Paola
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    lannisport,

    i agree :)

  85. Poxy Tym
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    Harper Lee told me she’s almost finished with To Kill a Mockingbird, Part 2

  86. Kiftyn
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    I know some people didn’t like ADwD, but I thought it was good. I rank them:

    ASoS
    AGoT
    ADwD
    ACoK
    AFfC

  87. Knurk
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Alexander Dubrovsky:
    Knurk,

    I’m thinking about starting a movement named “Destroy Essos and kill every character that sets foot in this godforsaken plot-halting shithole”. Of course I will mourn Tyrion, Barristan and Victarion, but extraordinary times require extraordinary measures.

    I’m glad I’ve started to read Malazan Book Of The Fallen series after it was completed, even if it took Steven Eriksson only 1-1.5 years to write those 1200-pages long books.

    hah I agree, he would totally gain my respect again if the first sentence of TWOW was: “And so began the Doom of Essos, just while Tyrion was playing a game of Cyvasse beating Brown Ben Plum!” (Too bad he’s writing about Dothraki apparently)

    And please people, nobody is claiming GRRM to be their bitch, they’re just claiming he should gain his focus (on aSoIaF) again, which he admitted himself not so long ago. People climbing the fences when someone has questionmarks about GRRM’s professionalism are just as annoying as people demanding the next book NOWWWWWWWWWW!

  88. Dreamlife
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    As far as I know, Game of Thrones is the first TV series for HBO that is an adaptation of a series of books where they clearly want to follow the plot points of the books. Unless something drastic happens, HBO going bankrupt, or the viewership dropping to dreadful numbers like less than 200,000 per episode, I have faith that they will do their best to give this a proper beginning, middle, and ending. Personally, I think they need at least 6 seasons; ideally 7 or 8, but they could probably do it in 6 if they really needed to. I just hope D & D (or whoever the showrunners are) are given advanced notice when the final season is coming so they can properly finish the series.

  89. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    Tolgeros: And I’m not even going to mention that he is not exactly the picture of health and that, like with Robert Jordan, there is a very real possibility he might not finish.

    I’m really glad you didn’t mention what you just mentioned.

  90. LordStarkington
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

    Doesn’t GRRM realize he only exists to fulfill the entertainment needs of the unwashed masses on the internet?!

  91. Carne
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    When did we get the first casting announcement for season 2?

  92. Carcin
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets:
    Alan,

    Spare me. I’m not trying to dictate anything that man does in his life; I’m simply stating that the guy is an annoying shit

    The trolls are strong in this thread….

    Starting with this douche.

  93. Dondarrion
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    Carne:
    When did we get the first casting announcement for season 2?

    I believe it was July. Natalie Dormer.

  94. Carne
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    Dondarrion,

    Was this from GRRM or HBO?

  95. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    Carcin,

    So a troll is someone who has a negative opinion of someone else? Or is that just another way of saying that you have a different opinion than I do? I was pretty clear and thorough with my reasoning, and am hardly stating my opinion for the sake of sensationalism, so I guess you just seem to take it personally that I don’t care for the man. Which I find rather odd.

  96. ThePinkDragon
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 10:47 pm | Permalink

    On the Reeds: I fully admit that I love them because I have an automatic connection to any ASoI&F character who is close to my age and is actually written as such (that means no Jon or Dany, etc). I love Ned and Cat and Tyrion and etc., but when you’re 18, you tend to lean towards the teenager and child characters, since you were ‘there’ first. I will be sad if they’re not around, but I don’t think I’m gonna freak out over it. I hope no one faults me for that.

    On casting: bring it the fuck on.

    As for GRRM finishing, honestly, guys, just go find other books you love — more reliably-released ones — and fanboy over those in the meantime. Pick up some standalones, pick up Malazan if that’s your cup of tea, pick up some wonderful anthologies, pick up anything but this. Find new authors. Hell, find new TV shows. I still love ASoI&F/GoT with all my heart, but having other favorites is easier to bear knowing I will probably be a grandmother (and likely a dead one) by the time the last book comes out.

    However, I agree with both factions here: dude deserves some Georgie-time, but dude should also learn to say ‘no,’ as he as admitted having a problem with that in the past. Dude has a LOT to think about — seriously, think of all the millions of people and plot-threads he has to keep a hold of at all times, and he writes very little down — but he really should also set deadlines for himself, no matter how minor. “Okay, by this month, I’ll have done Dany IV, V, VI, Tyrion VI and Arya VII no matter what. By this month, I’ll have done Theon II and Davos IV, and at least started Melisandre I…”

  97. Blueberry2
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

    finish the book george

  98. Carlos Luna
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:27 pm | Permalink

    Eddie,

    “WINDS OF WINTER. Yes, I’m working on that too. At the moment, I am writing about the Dothraki. More than that, I sayeth not, you know I don’t like to talk about this stuff”".

  99. Lala
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:34 pm | Permalink

    To all the people complaining about George.. This guy is as devoted to the fans as can be. I saw him sign books for 8 hours straight, and he still greeted everyone with a smile on his face and answered a question. George <3

  100. ThePinkDragon
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    Lala,

    RIGHT? I met him too, last summer. Dude has got to be on some kind of drugs to stay so nice to people all the time. I would have gone off the fuckin’ deep end.

  101. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 12:08 am | Permalink

    Smallfolk of WiCnet, to all ASOIAF fans, those who love George and those that hate/love him, I dedicate this link to you…

    Paul and Storm perform George RR Martin song

  102. TastesLikeTheSea
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 12:26 am | Permalink

    Guys don’t worry, if GRRM doesn’t finish the series I’ll do it myself and post it online free of charge (a bit of a warning though, Voldemort and Jack Bauer appear in my version).

  103. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 12:31 am | Permalink

    Blueberry2:
    finish the book george

    Wow, I’ve never heard anyone put it quite like that before.

  104. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 12:35 am | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets:
    Carcin,

    So a troll is someone who has a negative opinion of someone else? Or is that just another way of saying that you have a different opinion than I do? I was pretty clear and thorough with my reasoning, and am hardly stating my opinion for the sake of sensationalism, so I guess you just seem to take it personally that I don’t care for the man. Which I find rather odd.

    No, it’s that you’re claiming you don’t care for the man specifically because he’s not finishing the series of books you care about fast enough for your taste, and then you turn around and say you don’t want to dictate what he does with his time. Which in my opinion doesn’t make you a troll, but does make you either self-contradictory or full of shit.

  105. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    Smallfolk of WiCnet, to all ASOIAF fans, those who love George and those that hate/love him, I dedicate this link to you…

    Paul and Storm perform George RR Martin song

    Hysterical. Thanks for posting! This one scared the cat with raucous laughter.

  106. Langkard
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 1:04 am | Permalink

    Autumn Storms?

    Nearly all of Arya’s chapters in ASOS occur during stormy weather. It rains constantly, the flooding is extreme. It basically rains non-stop from her escape out of Harrenhal to her taking ship to Braavos, including all of the chapters with the BwB. I can’t think of any other chapters with storms, really.

  107. Coltaine777
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 1:25 am | Permalink

    Alexander Dubrovsky:
    Knurk,

    I’m thinking about starting a movement named “Destroy Essos and kill every character that sets foot in this godforsaken plot-halting shithole”. Of course I will mourn Tyrion, Barristan and Victarion, but extraordinary times require extraordinary measures.

    I’m glad I’ve started to read Malazan Book Of The Fallen series after it was completed, even if it took Steven Eriksson only 1-1.5 years to write those 1200-pages long books.

    lol…this comment makes me smile ! talk about a series that has unravelled :) he should’ve taken more time lol lol ..

  108. Alexander Dubrovsky
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 2:53 am | Permalink

    Coltaine777: lol…this comment makes me smile ! talk about a series that has unravelled :) he should’ve taken more time lol lol ..

    Could you elaborate on this more?

  109. Pepi
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 3:20 am | Permalink

    Knurk,

    At least 2 years? Despite everything, you managed to retain your optimistic view and I respect that. My “at least bar” is set much higher. I agree that the last book lacked answers, but I still think it was a good read (it wasn’t ALL setup to be clear). North chapters were great, King’s landing was good and hell, I’m just gonna go and say it; I even enjoyed some of the Essos stuff, don’t judge me. Also disagree that the book should be judged by its own merits (which is obvious since my previous claim). That’s what Spice King would say. When the book is not a stand alone book, but is a part of a bigger whole, I think that beside readability (if you like), one should also take into account what the book does for previous and upcoming books. So while I think we all agree, this book didn’t do a whole lot for the previous books, it in my opinion did a lot for the next 2, 3, 4, 5 (depending on GRRM’s life span (I doubt 2 books will be enough to finish it now, because of how ADWD turned out)) books.
    I don’t know, my rambling either makes sense or it doesn’t. In any case it comes down to “some will like it and some won’t”. It’s alright … :D

  110. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 3:26 am | Permalink

    Steven Swanson,

    Reading comprehension – you should work on it. My entire stance on George finishing the next book, from the first, has been that he can take as long as he pleases, but in the meantime he shouldn’t be talking shit about the showrunners for Battlestar Galactica and Lost, seeing as he isn’t anywhere near finishing his series, and also seeing as how the last two books in this series have been a step down in terms of quality from the first three. If he’s so certain that he won’t succumb to the same fate of delivering a disappointing ending, then perhaps he should get down to proving it. I hope he does. As I said, I’m a ASoI&F fan, and a Game of Thrones fan; that doesn’t mean I have to like the guy, and I’d certainly appreciate it if certain commenters could do more than resort to insults as a response. My stance has never been that he needs to get these books out as soon as possible so that I, personally, can enjoy them (although I’m sure I will, and I’d certainly be a happy camper if they came out soon rather than later). If you’d actually read any of my posts in full than you’d have noticed that, I’m sure.

    * As a disclaimer, since so many here feel the need to defend Ser Georges’ honor, I remain a pretty die-hard Lost fan so perhaps his criticisms against the show strike me more personally than others here. For that matter, I’m a big Battlestar Galactica fan, so I’m sure that doesn’t help.

  111. oracle86
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 3:44 am | Permalink

    Those of you who are interested in the current issue of Rolling Stone, check out the articles on Dinklage and Martin here -

    Peter Dinklage – http://s535.photobucket.com/albums/ee353/avni86/Dinklage%20-%20RS%20May%202012/

    GRRM – http://s535.photobucket.com/albums/ee353/avni86/GRRM%20-%20RS%20May%202012/

  112. Lex
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:26 am | Permalink

    oracle86,

    Whoa.. shirtless Dinklage riding a stallion!

  113. fecka
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:42 am | Permalink

    I hope the Tully family will be in the season 3.
    Brynden is one of my favourite characters. I miss him very much in the season 2.

    Greetings from Hungary! :)

  114. Cookie
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:51 am | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets:
    oracle86,

    Seen it. Don’t care. Never said he was my bitch, so I’m wondering if you even read my posts. I don’t care when he comes out with the next book, that’s on him. But he shouldn’t talk shit about other peoples’ endings when his last two books were a considerable step down in quality from the first three, and when he’s not even close to approaching the end of his own series. My line of thinking is that if he’s going to bash other people for how they handled concluding their stories, he’d better be able to put his money where his mouth is. And if AFfC & ADwD (which I liked both of them, to be fair) are any indication, he’s treading down the path of the pot calling the kettle black. Maybe I happen to believe that ol’ Georgie is just stalling.

    So? Quite a few people bitched about the Lost ending (and for what its worth, i was one of them). GRRM was just one person, one fan, among many in this. Why he (or anyone) shouldn´t be allowed to express his opinion here is completely beyond me.

    After all, with the same logic you apply here, you could be called out for critizising the last two ASOIAF books. Or every Lost Fan who expressed his disappointmant over the ending. That is, of course, only if this people weren´t able to make it better themselves, which should only apply to about 99% of them. How boring the internet would be…

  115. Lex
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:14 am | Permalink

    oracle86:
    Those of you who are interested in the current issue of Rolling Stone, check out the articles on Dinklage and Martin here -

    Peter Dinklage – http://s535.photobucket.com/albums/ee353/avni86/Dinklage%20-%20RS%20May%202012/

    GRRM – http://s535.photobucket.com/albums/ee353/avni86/GRRM%20-%20RS%20May%202012/

    In the GRRM article, he’s asked about The Winds of Winter. He says that he’s written about 200 of an eventual 1,500 pages. At this rate, it’ll take 7 more years… :(

  116. Udi
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:29 am | Permalink

    Pepi,

    I was very dissapointed with ADWD, and not only because Tyrion was portrayed more as a court fool on the run than a witty, sharp-minded survivor. I disliked most of the Dany chapters. They were quite boring and disgusting with all the descriptions of sickness, hunger and bodily fluids, and crazy names no one can remember. This is a massive, long anticipated book with a great sounding badass title. And imo it didn’t deliver the goods. It trudges along slowly and fails to captivate. I found that I had to force myself to read at times. With the first 3 books I couldn’t let go. A dance with dragons is to me more like a stroll with overgrown lizards. Still, would love to have the series completed, but if D&D and HBO do it first, which seems highly possible, that’s fine with me.

  117. Udi
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    ace,

    True. But it will be interesting reading the blogs if that happens, though there is a limit at how much outrage one can read.

  118. John
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    Ok, there are some really bad arguments on here about Martin taking his sweet time to finish the books (though on the bright side, at least the Web site isn’t censoring the comments like Martin does on his blog). Calling people trolls or other names is not productive. Address the arguments of the other side, like I’m going to do here:

    1. People claim that George has never been a fast writer. I’m not sure how fast he is relative to others. Certainly, he’s slower than, say, Stephen King. But the fact is, he has proven able to write much faster in the past than he has been recently. A Game of Thrones was published in August 1996, with A Clash of Kings coming in February 1999 and A Storm of Swords released in November 2000. And yes, I know he had been working on the series since 1991, but he didn’t really start until 1994 when he had 200 pages finished that he used to sell the series. So really, it took at most about seven years to write these three huge books, the three that almost everyone agrees are the best in the series. How he managed to write his magnum opus (A Storm of Swords) in a year-and-a-half is particularly amazing. So he has proven able to write plenty fast in the past.

    2. People claim that the work will suffer in Martin is rushed. Again, see my points above about how quickly he wrote his first three books, all of which are excellent. Now, if A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons were as good or better (or even close to as good) as the original three books, people would be more willing to cut him some slack. But the fact is that the delays have coincided with a corresponding decline in quality. He needed eleven years to write two books (four years longer than it took him to write the first three), and neither book was anywhere close to as good as the originals. That’s not to say that they were bad. Far from it. Both had some excellent parts. But the “don’t rush him, or the work will suffer” argument isn’t helped by what happened when he took his time.

    3. People claim that Martin “isn’t our bitch” and other nonsense. This is a straw man that isn’t a real argument. Nobody has ever claimed that Martin is our bitch or that he shouldn’t be allowed to do anything else. People have questioned what exactly is taking him so long. And given how quickly he wrote the three books and the fact that the fast-written books were better than the slow-written ones, the questions are valid. And the fact of the matter is that nobody forced him to write these books. But since he did write them and because he has millions of fans, he has an obligation to finish the story. That’s not to say that he should be forced to finish it. It’s a free country. But he has an obligation to his fans because they’ve spent a lot of time and money on the series. When he’s done, he’s free to do whatever he wants for the rest of his life, and no one will bother him.

    I actually do think that he’s going to get these last two books out in a relatively timely fashion because of the TV show. His publishers are not going to want a situation in which the show catches and passes the books because that will almost certainly hurt sales. If a new book comes out, people will flock to buy it to find out what happens. But if it’s already been portrayed on screen, people will be less enthusiastic. Certainly, many people will buy the books, but I think a fair percentage won’t, especially if they’re unhappy about the way the series ends. This would be a nightmare for the publishers. It’s possible the show could be delayed somewhat, but I don’t think HBO wants to do more than a six-month delay at the most. I don’t think we’ll be seeing two-year hiatuses, though you never know.

    And at this point, Martin should be able to see at least a little light at the end of the tunnel. So with that in mind, my best guess is that The Winds of Winter will be released some time in 2014 after the airing of the fourth season. That will be the second season based on A Storm of Swords, and the show should be more popular than ever at that point. And I think A Dream of Spring will be released some time in 2017 after the airing of Season 7 (the one presumably based on The Winds of Winter–and yes, I know that it’s not necessarily a “one book per season” thing anymore, but I bet it will be pretty close to that in practice if not in philosophy). That gives Martin roughly three years per book, which seems entirely reasonable, given his earlier speed with the first three books. Maybe HBO can buy him an extra six months to a year with a delay or two, but that’s it.

  119. Lex
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    John,

    See my comment above. The new Rolling Stone article says he’s written 200 of 1,500 pages in the last year. For TWOW to come out on 2014, GRRM has to write over 600 pages per year, for the next two years (i.e. triple his current speed).

  120. Udi
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    John,

    Your optimism is catching… and I like it!
    I agree with your reasoning and I hope your assessment is pretty much spot-on.
    Guess we will have to wait a few years to judge it

  121. Alexander Dubrovsky
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    Lex:
    John,

    See my comment above. The new Rolling Stone article says he’s written 200 of 1,500 pages in the last year. For TWOW to come out on 2014, GRRM has to write over 600 pages per year, for the next two years (i.e. triple his current speed).

    If I were his publisher and knowing his writing speed and the situation with the TV show, I would tell him to try to write smaller books which can be released every 1-2 years, instead of 1500-pages long doorstoppers that take him 5 years to write. Same story, only divided into more books – that way everyone is happy. The fans get the story they want without waiting for 5 years for each book, and the publisher gets more money from selling more books.
    Problem solved.

  122. Remaal
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    Those 200 pages, I believe, are the same 200 that were originally written for ADWD and removed by the editor for inclusion into TWOW (chapters which inncluded the battle of Mereen and the battle of Winterfell). As I’ve understood it from his interviews during the year, he has not yet started working on new pages.

  123. ThePinkDragon
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    Alexander Dubrovsky,

    Yeah, but like, how would that work, exactly? Would it be, say, 500 pages of every POV, or 500 pages of only certain POVs? The first is doable, but nothing would happen, and there would be no individual book-arcs; the second means we’re divided by geography again.

    IMO, both are not ideal situations — unless you were thinking of something different.

  124. Knurk
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    Dinklage is the only dude who can sport a henriquatre without shame.

  125. Gatzby
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    John,

    People claim that Martin “isn’t our bitch” and other nonsense. This is a straw man that isn’t a real argument. Nobody has ever claimed that Martin is our bitch or that he shouldn’t be allowed to do anything else.

    I wish that it was a straw man, but you keep saying he is your bitch.

    But he has an obligation to his fans because they’ve spent a lot of time and money on the series. When he’s done, he’s free to do whatever he wants for the rest of his life, and no one will bother him.

    This is how you tell people they’re your bitch. You bough a book and that somehow made him your employee? And of course being a dick about it makes you more important. In the same way I may argue that I spent a lot of time reading your stupid post and answering to it and that now you have obligation never to post on internet again.

    The first two points with kindergarten math contain no real arguments.

    To the poster that suggested a timetable for GRRM…

    Sorry about the personal attacks.

    Gatz

  126. ser lyonel the laughing storm
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Wow either there are a lot of hurt Lost fans (sorry you’re show doesn’t make sense) here or GRRM is the Kanye West of literature and brings out y’all sorry haters. ADWD>AGOT= real talk

  127. Tolgeros
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    LordStarkington: Doesn’t GRRM realize he only exists to fulfill the entertainment needs of the unwashed masses on the internet?!

    I really hate it when my argument is simplified in this way. Nobody is demanding that GRRM spend all of his time on ASOIAF, nor are we insinuating that GRRM is some kind of writing machine whose only purpose is to satisfy us.

    But you’d have to be an idiot to not understand why it’s in GRRM’s and HBO’s best interests for him to cut back on his non-ASOIAF projects (at least for now) in lieu of the ever-approaching TV series. Even GRRM himself admits he has way too much on his plate. I feel like people like you think of people like me as Kathy Bates’s character in Misery. We’re not entitled, just concerned.

    Richard: from the stuff I’ve read, it’s not going to play out like that, from Season 3 onward they are pretty much putting the remaining books in a blender and coming up with 10 episodes at a time. As DnD stated before, they are adapting the series overall, not rigidly going book by book.

    However they decide to do it, they’re still going to be relying on book material. They need things to put into that blender; AFfC and ADwD will only get them so far. They said they are committed to telling George’s story, and they can’t do that when it hasn’t been written. GRRM told D&D how it ends, but that doesn’t mean they have all the pieces of the puzzle.

    Delta1212: Tolgeros:
    And I’m not even going to mention that he is not exactly the picture of health and that, like with Robert Jordan, there is a very real possibility he might not finish.

    And yet, you did.

    Steven Swanson: Tolgeros: And I’m not even going to mention that he is not exactly the picture of health and that, like with Robert Jordan, there is a very real possibility he might not finish.
    I’m really glad you didn’t mention what you just mentioned.

    I was attempting humor. Clearly it didn’t work.

  128. LordStarkington
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    I was being facetious, obviously not everyone actually feels that way, although I think you’re kidding yourself if you think “nobody” is that demanding; there’s a reason topics about “FINISH THE BOOKS NOW!!!” are banned over on Westeros.org – they get really and unnecessarily unpleasant.

    In any case, I still think it’s in everyone’s best interest (fan wise) to not get too caught up in concern/worrying/whatever about when the series will finish and let it happen at GRRM’s pace. If, God forbid, something keeps the series from being complete, then that’ll suck and most likely we’ll miss out on some details or specific plot points, but that isn’t the end of the world.

    That being said, GRRM has commented that he likes doing the non-ASOIAF stuff as well and feels really stressed when people harass him about finishing the series, so maybe it’s better that he paces himself rather than “set stuff aside” only to end up hating what he’s doing. It’s annoying to wait years as a fan but it’s not the end of the world, either, and I’m loath to assume I know more about GRRM’s creative process and how best to facilitate it than he does.

  129. Meg
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    People need to be nice, but firm. Polite, but critical. Because I think many of the criticisms of the last two books, series length, and time between books are spot-on. Maybe George needs to find some new draft readers who aren’t “yes” men, like Elio and Linda, who seem to think everything he does is genius. It’s starting feel like George Lucas in the creation of the prequels, where his fawning staff couldn’t speak their mind about the awfulness of his ideas. Sometimes I wonder if he weighs the criticisms; other times I wonder if he even encounters them at all.

  130. Macha
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    TastesLikeTheSea:
    Guys don’t worry, if GRRM doesn’t finish the series I’ll do it myself and post it online free of charge (a bit of a warning though, Voldemort and Jack Bauer appear in my version).

    LOL, problem solved. I can settle for that, as long as I get the only answer I really care about: what color is Varys’ hair??

  131. Coltaine777
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Alexander Dubrovsky: Could you elaborate on this more?

    you can tell by my online name that I was a huge fan of Steven Erikson ..but the series went to shit in my opinion because it lost focus…it unravelled …I ended up very disappointed in it …and yes Mr.Erikson churned out the books quickly but in imo too quickly and the series lost its way …

  132. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Cookie,

    Having worked on the production for Lost, I’ll just say that there were a lot of things that didn’t come to fruition due to budgeting and scheduling. Why it pisses me off that George would be so dismissive of the ending is because he’s a professional writer and is very familiar with the entertainment world (television in particular). Usually you’d expect more tact when someone you also respect (ol’ Georgie has written some amazing books, I’ll give him that) critisizes a work over its ending, especially when the ending to their own magnum opus is so clearly in doubt. He can take as long as he wants to finish the next two (?) books, and he has no budgeting issues or scheduling concerns to take into consideration; lucky him. But as I’ve already said, maybe he SHOULD be more concerned than he appears to be with how his own series turns out since he was so quick to judge others for ‘dropping the ball’.

  133. LordStarkington
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Meg,

    GRRM commented on the editing of ADWD at http://grrm.livejournal.com/217066.html. I do agree that more/better editing would have been useful, although I’m not sure how much of that is fawning versus the publisher’s editor not doing their job quite as well as I’d like.

  134. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Meg:
    People need to be nice, but firm. Polite, but critical. Because I think many of the criticisms of the last two books, series length, and time between books are spot-on. Maybe George needs to find some new draft readers who aren’t “yes” men, like Elio and Linda, who seem to think everything he does is genius.It’s starting feel like George Lucas in the creation of the prequels, where his fawning staff couldn’t speak their mind about the awfulness of his ideas. Sometimes I wonder if he weighs the criticisms; other times I wonder if he even encounters them at all.

    100% agree with all you said .

  135. Trappingsofpower
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    I enjoyed the chapter from Winds of Winter that GRRM posted.

  136. iLikeAxes
    Posted May 15, 2012 at 4:20 am | Permalink

    Areo Hotah. Let there be Areo Hotah.

  137. Mike
    Posted May 15, 2012 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets,

    Jeeeez, give it a rest already. He disliked the finales as an avid FAN of both shows, not as some holier-than-thou writer who is bragging about how much better he can and has done. He’s entitled to his opinion as a fan, whether you think his works are as good or not. Doesn’t make him an annoying shit to state it anymore than it makes you one to state yours.

    I don’t know why it is that you feel the ending of his series is in such terrible doubt just because you feel the two middle books in the overall series were slower and less driven. Considering the guy has had the story arcs and conclusions in his head the entire time he’s been writing, I’d say he’s had plenty of time to devise a proper ending even as some of the intermediary chapters wander a bit. If you’ve really produced for Lost, I think you’d have to agree that the series suffered not only from things that didn’t come to fruition, but also from the fact that the writers had absolutely no idea where they were going with the show from season to season. I can’t imagine how the Lost writers treading water and improvising can be seen as terribly similar to a guy with a definite plan finding himself having some trouble getting through the slower bits.

    I like Lost, I agree that the finale was really disappointing, and I’m sharing my opinion even though i probably couldn’t do better. Get off your high horse.

  138. Nicole
    Posted May 15, 2012 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    This is my first time reading this site. It seems people insult anyone who thinks it would be nice if GRRM could finish the book. So I will not be here anymore because I am way too old to be yelled at for having an opinion. Either way, neither the book or the show will be finished.

  139. Shorel
    Posted May 17, 2012 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    Before he dies, mainly.


  • Recent Comments

  • More from FanSided

  • Archives

    • 2014 (695)
    • 2013 (679)
    • 2012 (550)
    • 2011 (512)
    • 2010 (309)
    • 2009 (174)
    • 2008 (47)
  •