Episode 17 – A Man Without Honor – Open Chat
By Winter Is Coming on in Recap.

We’re in the home stretch now. Episode seven of season two of Game of Thrones airs tonight and it is entitled “A Man Without Honor”. Use this thread to chat about the episode and we will have the recap thread up as soon as it ends, for you to provide your instant reactions. Since I’m out of screeners, I’ll update the recap thread with my thoughts a little later. Here are the details on tonight’s ep:

Writers: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss
Director: David Nutter
Runtime: 56 min
Synopsis: Jaime meets a distant relative; Dany receives an invitation to the House of the Undying; Theon leads a search party; Jon loses his way in the wilderness; Cersei counsels Sansa.


214 Comments

  1. Rukie44
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    I can’t wait for Jaime’s scene. This is the episode that Nikolaj said his favorite acting experience he’s ever done occurs in, right?

  2. rolle
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Hopefully we get a lot of Jaime without stupid changes.

  3. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Can’t wait to find out where the dragons are, how many Dothraki still survive with Dany, will Jaqen be given Arya’s final wish? So much will transpire tonight it shall be epic.

  4. Dogmayor
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Need more Stannis + Davos.

  5. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    I heard that there is another big change to Dany’s storyline in this episode . I can’t wait for the book nerds to get angry and to laugh at their ridiculous comments .

  6. Steelyuhas
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    Needs moar King in the North!

  7. Queensmoot
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    I really hope that “Cersei counsels Sansa” is the scene where Sansa starts her period and goes all pyro. I’ve really been looking forward to their chat after.

  8. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    rolle:
    Hopefully we get a lot of Jaime without stupid changes.

    Well from what I heard you have no luck . Hahaha

  9. Alexander Dubrovsky
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    The picture in this post begs to be captioned to death.

  10. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Steelyuhas:
    Needs moar King in the North!

    Yeah! More KING IN THE NORTH! And Davos, and SanSan…

  11. Jaime Lannister
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    So, apparently Jaime does something really fucking brutal to Alton, and kills him during his escape attempt.

    Not sure if good twist.

  12. MockinTheFlayedLion
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    The same guys who told me about Irri dying and all also explained the Jaime scene yesterday. For the ones who can’t wait, read this. If you don’t want to be spoiler, skip this comment. Again, not sure if the info is 100% correct. So what happens is that Jaime kills Alton after him being put in the same cell. This makes the guard, who happens to be a Karstark come in. Jaime kills the guard and tries to escape, but fails. Catelyn sends Jaime away with Brienne because she is afraid of what the Karstark will do to him. He also wrote about some of the other scenes including Theon and winterfell, but i really can’t remember. Dany plot spoiler Xaro was part of the whole dragon stealing scheme All i can remember.

  13. Wrath of the Gods
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    I might throw a peach at my tv if I don’t hear Ygritte say the magic words tonight.

    You know nothing, D&D.

  14. Dan
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    rolle,

    If we get a lot of Jaime that would be a change in itself.

  15. Conor
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    If that’s true about Jaime ^^

    The part where Catelyn lets him go for other reasons not because the boys are dead mostly…

    That is f^%king Stupid. First book change I don’t like.

  16. The DarkStar
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    I know its been speculated that Arstan is the one who took Dany’s dragons, but I didn’t see it posted why (didn’t read through everything)
    Here’s what happened:

    Xaro was the one who had Dany’s peeps put to the sword and was going to take them. Arstan, who has been watching Dany judging if she was mad like Aerys and Viscerys, or if she was good like Rhygar, saw what was going on. He killed Xaro’s men and took the Dragons to a safe place.
    There is no way one of the 13 like Pyat Pre would attack the most powerful man in Quarth and dishonor him and his guest. It can’t be one of the 13.
    And as for Arstan, it was clearly an old man walking with the dragons. What better way to introduce him on screen than to not show his face?
    He isn’t stealing them, he is rescuing them.

  17. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    The DarkStar:
    I know its been speculated that Arstan is the one who took Dany’s dragons, but I didn’t see it posted why (didn’t read through everything)
    Here’s what happened:

    Xaro was the one who had Dany’s peeps put to the sword and was going to take them. Arstan, who has been watching Dany judging if she was mad like Aerys and Viscerys, or if she was good like Rhygar, saw what was going on. He killed Xaro’s men and took the Dragons to a safe place.
    There is no way one of the 13 like Pyat Pre would attack the most powerful man in Quarth and dishonor him and his guest. It can’t be one of the 13.
    And as for Arstan, it was clearly an old man walking with the dragons. What better way to introduce him on screen than to not show his face?
    He isn’t stealing them, he is rescuing them.

    Sorry, wrong idea

  18. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    The DarkStar:
    I know its been speculated that Arstan is the one who took Dany’s dragons, but I didn’t see it posted why (didn’t read through everything)
    Here’s what happened:

    Xaro was the one who had Dany’s peeps put to the sword and was going to take them. Arstan, who has been watching Dany judging if she was mad like Aerys and Viscerys, or if she was good like Rhygar, saw what was going on. He killed Xaro’s men and took the Dragons to a safe place.
    There is no way one of the 13 like Pyat Pre would attack the most powerful man in Quarth and dishonor him and his guest. It can’t be one of the 13.
    And as for Arstan, it was clearly an old man walking with the dragons. What better way to introduce him on screen than to not show his face?
    He isn’t stealing them, he is rescuing them.

    While I like this theory, do really think that Dany will give Arstan time to explain? I can just see it:
    Dany: You took my dragons!
    Arstan: I can explain!
    Dany: Sure you can. Dracerys!
    Dragons: *breathe fire*
    Arstan: *dies*

    Also, all the non-readers must be so confused! They are probably all like “who the heck is this ‘Arstan’ dude?”

  19. Mike Chair
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Alexander Dubrovsky: The picture in this post begs to be captioned to death.

    I’m sorry, but the first thing that came to my mind was, “Gozer the Gozerian… good evening.”

  20. Nagga's Kin
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Alexander Dubrovsky:
    The picture in this post begs to be captioned to death.

    Rakharo: Whoa, he’s tall and scary!
    Jorah: Yes, he is very tall and very scary!
    Khaleesi: I’ve never seen a purple merkin!

  21. Blackfish
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    It’s bad enough waiting each week for my GoT fix, and loving every minute of the show. I am dreading the long wait till April 2013 for season 3, it’s gonna feel like a bucket O’ Rats.

    I do want to take this moment to give everyone some advice, approach this show like you should approach life. Enjoy all the good it offers and don’t worry about the small stuff. You will enjoy the show that much more and live longer too.

    Yes some people’s nerd rage/gate rage do make me laugh and some I ignore, but upon closer examination, you have to ask yourself, “really?” Does it matter that much to you? I say sit down, relax, have a beverage of your choice, and enjoy the ride.

    nuff said

  22. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Why do Kovarro, Dany and Jorah look shocked in this picture ? It seems like they saw a ghost .

  23. The DarkStar
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    wargsareawesome,

    Thought about that.
    Suppose Xaro doesn’t know his hired thugs don’t have them, and he tells Dany he took them and is blackmailing her to marry him with them….all Dany has to find out is he was behind it which maybe she will see in the house of the undying!! A flash back of Xaro plotting and ten Arstan rescuing them would be sick.

  24. Mark
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    Books 1-3 of ASOIAF are my all-time favorite novels, but I’ve actually been enjoying Mad Men & Veep more than Game of Thrones the past several Sundays.

    Here’s to hoping the final 4 episodes kick into another gear like Season 1.

  25. The Instrumentalist
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Mark,

    I’ve been really enjoying VEEP as well. Sundays are twice as awesome now. ^_^

  26. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    The DarkStar,

    True, but judging by the episode synopsizes (sp?) , Dany won’t be going to the HotU until the final episode of the season, so unless they are going to keep Dany dragon-less for this episode as well as episodes 18 & 19, along with some (or most) of episode 20, that won’t be the case.

  27. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Mark:
    Books 1-3 of ASOIAF are my all-time favorite novels, but I’ve actually been enjoying Mad Men & Veep more than Game of Thrones the past several Sundays.

    Here’s to hoping the final 4 episodes kick into another gear like Season 1.

    What ? The last episode was action packed , i don’t know what you’re talking about maybe you’re watching another show . Btw Veep is garbage .

  28. Kneeling Knight
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    Although highly unlikely, Arstan making an appearance would be beyond epic

  29. Alan
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    wargsareawesome:
    The DarkStar,

    True, but judging by the episode synopsizes (sp?) , Dany won’t be going to the HotU until the final episode of the season, so unless they are going to keep Dany dragon-less for this episode as well as episodes 18 & 19, along with some (or most) of episode 20, that won’t be the case.

    From the episode synopses, Dany won’t be in episode 9.

  30. Kneeling Knight
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    True episode nine will be all King’s Landing and deservedly so

  31. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    MockinTheFlayedLion:
    The same guys who told me about Irri dying and all also explained the Jaime scene yesterday. For the ones who can’t wait, read this. If you don’t want to be spoiler, skip this comment. Again, not sure if the info is 100% correct. So what happens is that Jaime kills Alton after him being put in the same cell. This makes the guard, who happens to be a Karstark come in. Jaime kills the guard and tries to escape, but fails. Catelyn sends Jaime away with Brienne because she is afraid of what the Karstark will do to him. He also wrote about some of the other scenes including Theon and winterfell, but i really can’t remember. Dany plot spoiler Xaro was part of the whole dragon stealing scheme All i can remember.

    Oh dear lord, NO! So now, not only is Jaime a kingslayer but he is a kinslayer? What a stupid move, if true. I guess the show just want Jaime to be a regular black and white villain.

  32. Nagga's Kin
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    wargsareawesome:

    synopsizes (sp?)

    <stannismode> The plural of synopsis is synopses. </stannismode>

  33. Addsend
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    The Dany change is insane. It involves Pyat Pree’s doubles, Xaro being quite evil, and a very unexpected murder scene for almost a dozen characters.

  34. Addsend
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Honestly, Gravatar can go screw itself for plastering my face over every comment I make on the internet.

  35. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    Addsend,

    Insane as in ‘Awesome, that was insane!’? The stuff you described doesn’t sound all that bad. I’ll be glad to be rid of the Dany/Xaro shippers.

  36. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap: Oh dear lord, NO! So now, not only is Jaime a kingslayer but he is a kinslayer? What a stupid move, if true.I guess the show just want Jaime to be a regular black and white villain.

    How about we don’t jump to the conclusions before everything, ok ?

  37. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin: <stannismode> The plural of synopsis is synopses. </stannismode>

    Well, in that case, Stannis should chat with the spell check on WiC, cause that is what it said the spelling was…

  38. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Addsend:
    Honestly, Gravatar can go screw itself for plastering my face over every comment I make on the internet.

    Can you say anything about whether we will se something beyond the wall ?

  39. Dekar
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    I just hope they stop changing thing…I know they re not supposed to follow the books by letter, but soon things will star to get weird and out of hand

  40. GRRM
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    So is everyone out of screeners? I was looking around for some impressions from critics, similar to the ones last week which stated it was the best of the season. Winter, anyone?

  41. Addsend
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Addsend,

    Insane as in ‘Awesome, that was insane!’?The stuff you described doesn’t sound all that bad. I’ll be glad to be rid of the Dany/Xaro shippers.

    Awesome insane, if you don’t mind the radical change. Really comes out of nowhere, and really ups the threat levels for Dany and co.

    Claudiu Gherganu: Can you say anything about whether we will se something beyond the wall ?

    “Jon loses his way in the wilderness”?

  42. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    I’m not usually a nitpicker, but how can you mess up anything regarding Jaime? Even if he doesn’t know Alton/Cleos that well, I never pictured Jaime as willing to kill a family member.

  43. Remaal
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    I’m worried about the Jaime changes, and about the changes to Cat’s motivation in releasing Jaime, if they have her release him before she gets the news about the death of the boys. I’ll withhold judgement on the changes until I see the episode, but you can officially colour me concerned.

    Changes to Dany’s arc really don’t bother me. I hated her arc in the books, so any change there can only be an improvement, as far as I’m concerned.

  44. Andrew
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    As a giant Jamie fanboy, i’m rediculously excited for this episode! I’m also stoked to see what happens with Dany and all that. I’m hoping Doreah has at least survived. I liked Doreah. Does anyone know if Westeros liked this episode? If they called it attrocious again, it’ll increase my excitement tenfold.

  45. T-Good
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Can’t wait for Larry and his review of 6 and 7…

    First few episodes I was nervous about changes but now it’s not a big deal.

    Things that were changed early in the season I can’t even remember, letting the season play out then reviewing the changes at the conclusion makes more sense.

  46. Ducky
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    That Jaime spoiler made me really upset. Are they trying to ruin the character and turn him into a one note mustache twirling villain?

  47. Alexander Dubrovsky
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone know if Westeros liked this episode? If they called it attrocious again, it’ll increase my excitement tenfold.

    That seems to be the rule of thumb this season – if Westeros people dislike the episode, it’s probably going to be awesome.

  48. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Remaal:
    I’m worried about the Jaime changes, and about the changes to Cat’s motivation in releasing Jaime, if they have her release him before she gets the news about the death of the boys. I’ll withhold judgement on the changes until I see the episode, but you can officially colour me worried.

    Changes to Dany’s arc really don’t bother me. I hated her arc in the books, so any change there can only be an improvement, as far as I’m concerned.

    We know from the critic promo that the Catelyn/Jaime ‘shit for honor’ conversation happens this season. And in it Jaime is wrapped in more chains than before and has cuts and a broken nose(Presumably after his escape attempt). So I doubt Cat sends them away to King’s Landing tonight.

  49. Sam
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Ducky,

    At first I kinda agreed with you but really I just think they’re going for trying to establish him as someone that will do whatever it takes to get what he wants, which at this point is to get out of chains and back to Cersei. If Alton is really just a nice young man trying to help Jaime then yeah, this is pretty bad. But remember, his awesomeness later in the series doesn’t mean he’s not the same guy that tried to murder an innocent child to protect himself and Cersei.

  50. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Sam,

    Nicolaj described Alton Lannister as a “fan who meets his idol”.

  51. Jaime Lannister
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:31 pm | Permalink
  52. Remaal
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap: We know from the critic promo that the Catelyn/Jaime ‘shit for honor’ conversation happens this season. And in it Jaime is wrapped in more chains than before and has cuts and a broken nose(Presumably after his escape attempt).So I doubt Cat sends them away to King’s Landing tonight.

    That’s a good point. Thanks.

  53. Jason
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    I haven’t read the Jaime spoilers, but I’d like to point out that at this point in the books, we all believe Jaime is a straight up villain with very little redeeming qualities. So complaining that any changes have him doing villainous actions doesn’t make much sense to me.

  54. Andrew
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Jason,

    I haven’t read them either (Because last week I learnt quite quickly that people don’t actually mention anywhere in the post that what’s inside the spoiler tags isn’t a book spoiler, but is an upcoming episode spoiler. Dicks.) but I mean, everything Jamie has done up till now has been motivated quite clearly. We think he’s a villain because we like the Starks, and we don’t like the Lannisters (Well, Cersei and Joffrey mostly), and Jamie tried to a kill a Stark. But that wasn’t just mad cruelty; he was protecting the woman he loved. So, again I don’t know what changes they’re talking about, but it would be a shame if they just turn Jamie into a villain with no more motivation than simply being bad. That’s the one change I think people have a right to complain about; fundementally changing a character.

    But again, I don’t know what they’re talking about inside those spoiler tags.

  55. Jaime Lannister
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Jason,

    This takes him a lot further down the morality spectrum. It’s worse than what he did to Bran.

  56. House Snow
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Yeah I think people might be confusing book 1 Jaimie with book 4 Jaimie. Book one Jaimie was a pretty horrible guy, when at this point in the show I’m not sure people would make that assessment.

  57. daprosinik
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Can we consider already the book and the tv show to be two different things so that we won’t have people complaining over and over again about some eventual changes.

  58. Alan
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    At this point in this story, I always thought of Jaime as a child. He’s not so much good or bad as he does things wholly impulsively and selfishly, with little thought ahead of time. I want that; I take and damn the long term consequences to anyone else or even myself.

    It’s not that he thought throwing Bran out the window was wrong and did it; it’s that he didn’t bother to think. (And no, I don’t think that’s an excuse at all. Just different from say, the awful things that Tywin has done.)

  59. unrobb
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    For those wondering, a gentleman posted on 4chan’s /tv/ board the other night a picture from the screener, as well as many spoilers. He’s a reliable source who has revealed much from both GoT and other series before, so it seems legit. Here’s what he said (some was mentioned before)

    Jaime kills Alton (wtf) and tries to escape, killing a Karstark
    Robb heads to the Crag, apparently has some close conversation with “Talisa” (on another note, the poster claims that this conversation points Talisa away from being Jeyne Westerling, which would be…odd)
    Jon gets captured by wildlings, we get our first “You know nothing”
    Sansa has her first menses, they add Shae into the scene trying to hide it (lame)
    No Stannis.
    Dany’s dragons were stolen in a plot by Pyat Pree and Daxos, in a play to conquer Qarth from the other members of the 13. Pree’s clones kill all the remaining Kings of Quarth at a meeting, Dany escapes.

    If these are all true, I’m very concerned with all the unnecessary changes DnD are making here.

  60. sunspear
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    You know something I realized? Rickon has been in more episodes than Jaime so far this season.

  61. Jason
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    Jaime Lannister,

    Well I guess we’ll have to see how it plays out then. I know I probably won’t mind, since I’ve always been easy on book adaptations. As long as it works in the realm of the television series, I don’t get too upset about it. Of course, there IS a point where I get upset, but it doesn’t happen as often as it does to others it seems.

  62. Alexander Dubrovsky
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Jaime Lannister:
    Jason,

    This takes him a lot further down the morality spectrum. It’s worse than what he did to Bran.

    He shoved a 10 year old kid from a tower, with the intention to kill him, after the kid saw him fucking his sister, the queen of Westeros. You can’t get much worse than that.

  63. Winter Is Coming
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Addsend:
    Honestly, Gravatar can go screw itself for plastering my face over every comment I make on the internet.

    It is tied to your email address, so if you don’t want it to show up here or elsewhere on the web, just put in a fake email address when commenting.

  64. sjwenings
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    Alexander Dubrovsky: He shoved a 10 year old kid from a tower, with the intention to kill him, after the kid saw him fucking his sister, the queen of Westeros. You can’t get much worse than that.

    What would you do if you had to either push a kid out a window, or risk (greatly) dying, along with your lover and kids?

    I’m not sure myself, but choosing to push the kid isn’t exactly evil, and many, many people would.

  65. Pepi
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    unrobb,

    Damn … you make those changes sound very, very weak. I hope it turns out better when I see it with my own eyes, else this might turn out to be the weakest episode yet (which is unacceptable that late in the season).

    *goes to sleep worried*

  66. hhhh
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Alexander Dubrovsky,

    No, he shoved an unknown child who knew information that would have killed the woman he loves and his children down a window. He didn’t do it to save himself. Jaime doesn’t kill to save himself, it’s always for someone else. What is revealed in the spoiler completely changes the character, destroying things that are fundamental for him. He becomes 100% irredeemable villain after it. His desire to protect his loved ones is what motivates Jaime. He does horrible things, but those are things he does for love. Take that away, and you have a completely different character that has nothing to do with who Jaime Lannister is.

  67. The Rabbit
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    As kind of person who can not help herself into avoiding spoilers – and the fact I would not avoid it at all, while retweeting tonight (the things I do for love :D), I red all of it, but I would give advice to everyone in here to not jump at any conclusions before we actually see the episode.
    As for Jaime – it looks pretty out of character for now – but we still did not hear any of the circumstences that lead him to kill Alton.

    In any case I am expecting a lots of gates going on over here tomorrow :D

  68. ThePinkDragon
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    threeeeeeeee morrrrreeeee houuuuuuurs

    Ugh, I’m just going to eat myself into a coma during the wait.

  69. Drew
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    VERY WORRIED.

  70. iheartseverus
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    [quote] The picture in this post begs to be captioned to death.[/quote]

    Ask and ye shall receive.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/joliefaire/a-man-without-honor-1920.jpg

  71. daprosinik
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    Alton Lannister isn’t in the book, yet purists will complain if he is killed in the tv show…

  72. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    At this point, I am honestly wondering if Dany is going to name her dragons at all this season! For that matter, Robb’s direwolf Grey Wind and Bran’s Direwolf Summer have not been named in the show either!

  73. ThePinkDragon
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    I’m not worried about the Jaime thing; D&D have yet to completely obliterate something. Sure, there have been changes that made me go “wha?” but none that totally destroyed my enjoyment of the show.

    And as The Rabbit stated, we don’t know the circumstances of Alton’s death. Could be that Alton was already suffering and needed to be put out of his misery. Could be that Alton is a shitty person and kinda deserved it. Could be that Alton got a whiff of the incest thing and threatened to reveal it to everyone as some kind of extortion. Sure, someone said that Alton and Jaime are like fan and hero, but that might be at first glance. The conversation could sour, once Alton realizes Jaime kinda sucks (or vice versa).

  74. Jaime Lannister
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Alexander Dubrovsky,

    Heh. Well, I think you kind of can. Especially when it involves kinslaying your young cousin who idolizes you.

    But eh, we’ll see how it plays out, like Jason said. I still think this is one bloody brutal deviation, and I eyeroll at book purists as much as the next guy.

  75. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    daprosinik,

    We aren’t complaining about him dying. We’re complaining about them making Jaime a kinslayer who would kill a family member to save himself.
    This alters the character from the books. You simply can not make that type of mistake with one of the main characters.

  76. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    daprosinik,

    Also the character he is based on (read: is the same as only with a different name), Ser Cleos Frey, does die in the books, which makes the whining even stranger.

  77. Jaime Lannister
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Yeah, this. The fuck.

    I thought Joffrey was tanking all of the Lannisters’ unforgivable black sins this season?

  78. House Snow
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    I don’t get it if. If Jaimie is portrayed worse earlier doesn’t that make his later arc better.

  79. hhhh
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    wargsareawesome,

    God, it should be obvious that we’re not whining because Alton Lannister dies. I could care less if one of Robb’s soldiers decides he doesn’t like the guy and makes him a head shorter. But making Jaime a kinslayer who would kill an innocent youth who idolizes him so save himself? That’s not slightly altering something. That’s completely destroying a main character.

  80. biliki
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    I am worried about the Jaime scenes, but let’s not forget that the BOOKS are canon, not the show :)

    Things may happen that we dislike / are wrong/ should have been done differently, but we really don’t know the reasons behind everything. I’m sure the writers are doing all they can :)
    If Jaime does anything weird in this episode, or if Catelyn acts the way she does for the wrong reasons, I won’t be too pissed because we book fans KNOW it is not canon :)

    So chill :)

    EDIT: All that said, OF COURSE it would be terrible if what you’re saying happened, and I really wish that won’t be the case. Just to make it clear. I am as against a HUGE alteration of Jaime’s character as everyone else here is. He is my favourite male character, tbh.

  81. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    hhhh:
    wargsareawesome,

    God, it should be obvious that we’re not whining because Alton Lannister dies. I could care less if one of Robb’s soldiers decides he doesn’t like the guy and makes him a head shorter. But making Jaime a kinslayer who would kill an innocent youth who idolizes him so save himself? That’s not slightly altering something. That’s completely destroying a main character.

    Sigh. It is times like this that I wish sarcasm worked better over the internet. I WAS BEING SNARKY, PEOPLE! I was trying to point out (snarkily, I admit) that it was not THAT Alton died that people don’t like, it’s HOW he died. Clearly, I failed.

  82. hhhh
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    House Snow,

    You know, Jaime didn’t suddenly become a good character in book 3. He was pretty much the same at the time of book 1 too, but we just didn’t see it. The end of book 3 just made him think harder about some things in his life, but things that are essential about him – like the fact that he’d do anything to protect those he loves and the fact that he loves his family, and the fact that he appreciates it when someone is nice to him – those were there in book 1 too. So, no, the change doesn’t make his later arc better. It makes it not make sense.

  83. Alan
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    daprosinik,

    We aren’t complaining about him dying. We’re complaining about them making Jaime a kinslayer who would kill a family member to save himself.
    This alters the character from the books. You simply can not make that type of mistake with one of the main characters.

    Does it really alter Jaime’s character? No, he doesn’t kill a kinsman in the book up to this point that I can remember, but he only really shows any love for Tyrion and Cersei. He does as he wants, when he wants. He’s disdainful of many of his relatives, including Cleos Frey — who he really doesn’t care if he lives or dies.

    Last week Tyrion commented that he thought Jaime would kill Lancel — a first cousin — if he found out about him and Cersei. And no purists screamed. So Tyrion thinks it isn’t unlikely.

    I can’t see how this a major change to Jaime’s character.

  84. daprosinik
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    Purists are making the comments less and less enjoyable, so much complaining, whining…

  85. Alan
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    hhhh:
    House Snow,

    You know, Jaime didn’t suddenly become a good character in book 3. He was pretty much the same at the time of book 1 too, but we just didn’t see it. The end of book 3 just made him think harder about some things in his life, but things that are essential about him – like the fact that he’d do anything to protect those he loves and the fact that he loves his family, and the fact that he appreciates it when someone is nice to him – those were there in book 1 too. So, no, the change doesn’t make his later arc better. It makes it not make sense.

    Says the person who has not seen the scene yet.

  86. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    hhhh,

    Care to elaborate on how this “destroys things”? Because, if I recall correctly, Jaime is painted as a shit-heel until he begins his journey with Brienne. And even then, it doesn’t change the horrible things he’s done in the past. Why would the show jump the gun of making Jaime more sympathetic before the books? He’s hardly as major a character at this point, compared to others characters who have been ‘softened’ (Cersei and Cat), so let’s save that character development for when it actually needs to happen.

  87. Jambo
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    “Worrying is like a rocking chair – it gives you something to do, but it won’t get you anywhere.”

  88. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    T-Good:
    Can’t wait for Larry and his review of 6 and 7…

    First few episodes I was nervous about changes but now it’s not a big deal.

    Things that were changed early in the season I can’t even remember, letting the season play out then reviewing the changes at the conclusion makes more sense.

    Just so!

  89. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    Jaime may not give a damn about some family members like Stevron Lannister or Cleos Frey. But he doesn’t actually kill them. And he never kills Lancel either, even though Tyrion tells him he was screwing Cersei. In the books, bad things seem to happen to kinslayers. How many times is it mentioned in the books that “nobody is as cursed as a kinslayer”? Maybe that is why this bugs me so much.

  90. House Snow
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets: hhhh, Care to elaborate on how this “destroys things”? Because, if I recall correctly, Jaime is painted as a shit-heel until he begins his journey with Brienne. And even then, it doesn’t change the horrible things he’s done in the past. Why would the show jump the gun of making Jaime more sympathetic before the books? He’s hardly as major a character at this point, compared to others characters who have been ‘softened’ (Cersei and Cat), so let’s save that character development for when it actually needs to happen.

    Exactly. People do the same thing with Joffrey-”No. no they deep to show Joffrey beating whores everyone knows hes a bad guy” except really that just the hindsight of book readers who know everything about him when non-book readers actually aren’t aware what his character is. Same thing goes for Jaime. To non book readers he doesn’t seem like that bad a guy when at this point in the book he was definitely an lead villain type.

  91. Jaime Lannister
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    To be fair, we see how Jaime reacts to Lancel sleeping with Cersei later. He smacks him down and leaves.

    This, on the other hand, puts him firmly in the kinslayer category. Brutally so. And that’s a pretty damning place to be, especially when you’re supposed to become more sympathetic and likable in the next season.

  92. Solar
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    wargsareawesome,

    can you guys read? we’re not complaining about a character dying, we’re complaining about jaime killing his cousin to save himself. that is completely out of character.

  93. hhhh
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets,

    His journey with Brienne revealed some things about him. It didn’t turn him from a kinslayer who would kill a perfectly innocent relative to save himself into a flawed person who cares about some people a little bit too much. Jaime is painted as a “shit-heel” only because he’s seen through Stark POV. Tyrion clearly doesn’t think so, nor do his cousins (aside from Cleos).
    It destroys the character because the only time Jaime would kill to save himself is in a battle, against an armed opponent. He’d do quite a lot “for love”, but not for himself. I don’t doubt he’d kill someone like Alton for Cersei or Tyrion. But just to escape? Never. When he tried to escape in the books, he was killing armed enemies. He wasn’t killing relatives who trusted and idolized him. Jaime does bad things for love. That’s something essential for the character. If D&D have changed that, they’ve completely changed the character.

  94. Solar
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets,

    he’s painted as one but that doesn’t make him one. he’s just misunderstood at this point in the story, that doesn’t mean he’s a kinslayer.

  95. House Snow
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    ^ Please Jaimie was never that innocent

  96. Alan
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    Jaime Lannister: e kinslayer category. Brutally so. And that’s a pretty damning place to be, especially when you’re s

    Not sure the Lancel encounter is relevant to right now, as it’s post – losing the hand and post – traveling with Brienne. The point is that it isn’t the same Jaime. Perhaps this scene is meant to contrast with that later? That’d be a nice piece of storytelling.

    I don’t see this as all that out of character for Jaime unless it is killing for torture or something. He’s pushed a ten-year old out a window; he’s attacked and killed Ned Stark’s men for capturing Tyrion; now he just wants to escape.

  97. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    Solar: kinslayer.

    First off, no need to be insulting. Second of all, that is the point of was trying to make by showing how ridiculous it is that people think it is the death itself you guys dislike. Clearly, my sarcasm backfired.

  98. hhhh
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    He pushed Bran for Cersei and attacked Ned’s men for Tyrion. When is he ever shown to be capable of killing a person who’s nice to him to save his own life?

  99. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Hopefully Alton offers to give his life in order to help Jaime escape and we get some dialogue where Jaime mentions that he needs to be with Cersei and Tyrion to help protect them. Grasping at straws, I know.

  100. biliki
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    hhhh:
    Pastor_of_Muppets,

    His journey with Brienne revealed some things about him. It didn’t turn him from a kinslayer who would kill a perfectly innocent relative to save himself into a flawed person who cares about some people a little bit too much. Jaime is painted as a “shit-heel” only because he’s seen through Stark POV. Tyrion clearly doesn’t think so, nor do his cousins (aside from Cleos).
    It destroys the character because the only time Jaime would kill to save himself is in a battle, against an armed opponent. He’d do quite a lot “for love”, but not for himself. I don’t doubt he’d kill someone like Alton for Cersei or Tyrion. But just to escape? Never. When he tried to escape in the books, he was killing armed enemies. He wasn’t killing relatives who trusted and idolized him. Jaime does bad things for love. That’s something essential for the character. If D&D have changed that, they’ve completely changed the character.

    THANK YOU.
    You said it all perfectly.
    If I remember correctly, the people who are sworn to the Lannisters, do idolize Jaime and think of him as a great leader. Of course he is an enemy to the Starks and of course he is presented as a villain from their pov, but once you get into his head, it’s clear that he’s one of the most decent people in Westeros. Imo. Yes, I just said that. It is right that what he does, he does out of love. Of course he’s done some horrible things but so have 90% of the people in Westeros. He has made a lot of mistakes and he’s been misguided his whole life, but he does have a kind of honour and in my opinion, a good heart too.

  101. PatD
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: D&D *know* how this story ends, so have a little faith that although we might not be able to see their purpose now, all these changes might actually make sense in the end.

  102. House Snow
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    hhhh: Alan, He pushed Bran for Cersei and attacked Ned’s men for Tyrion. When is he ever shown to be capable of killing a person who’s nice to him to save his own life?

    Jory

  103. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    rolle:
    Hopefully we get a lot of Jaime without stupid changes.

    I agree, I hope the changes are positive.

  104. iheartseverus
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    I see so many comments that Jaime’s killing of Alton would be horrible because… Alton
    ‘is a totally innocent person’ or is ‘a nice person’ or ‘an innocent young man who just idolizes Jaime,’ etc etc. Do we actually KNOW any of that? Do we know how Alton will be portrayed (by the show, not the book)? Does anyone actually have inside info here that Alton is going to be portrayed as innocent, kindly, adoring, etc and that Jaime just brutally cuts him down anyway?

  105. Alan
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    hhhh:
    Pastor_of_Muppets,
    Jaime is painted as a “shit-heel” only because he’s seen through Stark POV.
    It destroys the character because the only time Jaime would kill to save himself is in a battle, against an armed opponent. He’d do quite a lot “for love”, but not for himself.

    I think you and many of us are watching a different character.

    Jaime pushed an 8-year-old boy out a window. Oh, he claims he did it for love, but Jaime isn’t exactly a loving person. He’s a person of least resistance at this point. He feels something for Cersei, certainly, but many people who love others don’t throw kids out the window. He says, “The things I do for love” but before his trip, what did Jaime ever do that didn’t benefit himself in some way?

    And for all he loved Tyrion, he certainly didn’t love him enough to stand up to his father. Jaime let the rape of his brother’s wife go on because he was scared.

    And, yes, Jaime probably gets more crap than he deserves for being a Kingslayer, but as Ned pointed out, he only acted when it was convenient for him. That’s not doing something good, that again acting in a selfish manner.

    The trip with Brienne changes Jaime. In his internal monologue, he actually begins to think about things for the first time. It’s not all the Stark’s POV — he’s not a misunderstood good guy. He’s a selfish guy. He’s an impetuous man who acts selfishly throughout his life.

  106. Mean25
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    unrobb
    Jaime kills Alton (wtf) and tries to escape, killing a Karstark

      

    If this is true I’m really REALLY starting to hate D&D, they already ruined Littlefinger.

  107. Wrath of the Gods
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    daprosinik,

    He is but he isn’t. I’m pretty sure Alton Lannister is just a substitute for Cleos Frey. Maybe D&D just thought it might be confusing to the audience having the Lannisters cousin be called a Frey.

  108. Queensmoot
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    this.

    I’ll have to see how it plays out. It doesn’t necessarily damage his character if its done for a reason that seems like a reason that Jaime would kill him. Jaime is quite impulsive and he doesn’t need much reason to kill someone at this point in his arc. Kinslaying is pretty serious for him, but he was completely indifferent when Cleos died in the book and made no real attempt to help him. That said, I might go completely gatewatch/ table flipping after I see it, so judgment is reserved.

  109. Weirwood
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Something tells me that Jaime has no problem doing all kinds of things to his “kin” that other people would frown upon……

  110. Carne
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    I’m pretty sure Alton will take over for Cleos, so I don’t see where the “Jaime killing him” comes in.

  111. Kimberly
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    I agree we should we wait to see if Jaime is not only a kingslayer but a kinslayer too also remember stannis had renly killed so he’s a kinslayer too<
    isn't that a crime punished by death?

  112. PatD
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Please put episode spoilers inside tags!

    I don’t care about book spoilers. I’ve read them. But don’t ruin the show for me. Jeez.

  113. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Okay, but no one has answered my question: how does any of this “destroy things”? It doesn’t change that Jaime is the king-slayer, nor that he pushed Bran out of a window, or that he’s banging his freaking sister and their illegitimate children are in line for the thrones (well, Joffrey and Tommen, at least). He’s been dragged from camp to camp, surely being constantly berated and humiliated as a result of Robb’s success in addition to the living conditions (which I’m sure are a bit below what he’s used to as both a Lannister and a member of the King’s Guard), and you’re telling me that he wouldn’t do whatever necessary to escape?

    This may not have happened in the novels but George has always excelled at making his characters believable, and if I (or anyone, I’d imagine) were in his position, I’d do what had to be done to escape. But I’m doubting any of this really matters to those already opposed to it, despite the fact that they haven’t actually seen it play out. Jaime may have evolved into a more sympathetic character throughout the course of the series, but the show is on episode seven of the second season. It’d be pretty horrid character development to have Jaime as we now know him be the same Jaime that’s presented at this point in the story. Television audiences’, in general, like to see things happen as events unfold, and to take the journey of maturation/regression/etc. with the characters they’re watching.

    Anyway, this doesn’t “destroy” anything. In my opinion.

  114. biliki
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    House Snow: Jory

    Show.

    Not book.

  115. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Jambo:
    “Worrying is like a rocking chair – it gives you something to do, but it won’t get you anywhere.”

    And it really annoys anybody else whose foot gets in the way.

  116. Wrath of the Gods
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    And yes, PLEASE for the love of God use spoiler tags. I was trying to not read that whole Jaime spoiler and then someone has to go and comment on it without putting a tag. -______-

  117. Remaal
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    I really think we should all take a deep breath, and hold off on raging until we’ve seen the alleged changes in context.
    Bullet point spoilers are fun, and maybe factual, but they don’t exactly tell the full story. We really aught to have a full understanding of the narrative framing of this particular change, the tone and nuance, before we can begin to judge its impact on Jaime’s character.

    I’ll hold off judgement till I’ve seen the episode, but if I find they have frelled with my Jaime, I promise you, I will be right there with you in the recap thread tomorrow, pitchfork in one hand, torch in the other, and with my nerd-rage at full volume.

  118. Alan
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets:
    Okay, but no one has answered my question: how does any of this “destroy things”? It doesn’t change that Jaime is the king-slayer, nor that he pushed Bran out of a window, or that he’s banging his freaking sister and their illegitimate children are in line for the thrones (well, Joffrey and Tommen, at least). He’s been dragged from camp to camp, surely being constantly berated and humiliated as a result of Robb’s success in addition to the living conditions (which I’m sure are a bit below what he’s used to as both a Lannister and a member of the King’s Guard), and you’re telling me that he wouldn’t do whatever necessary to escape?

    This may not have happened in the novels but George has always excelled at making his characters believable, and if I (or anyone, I’d imagine) were in his position, I’d do what had to be done to escape. But I’m doubting any of this really matters to those already opposed to it, despite the fact that they haven’t actually seen it play out. Jaime may have evolved into a more sympathetic character throughout the course of the series, but the show is on episode seven of the second season. It’d be pretty horrid character development to have Jaime as we now know him be the same Jaime that’s presented at this point in the story. Television audiences’, in general, like to see things happen as events unfold, and to take the journey of maturation/regression/etc. with the characters they’re watching.

    Anyway, this doesn’t “destroy” anything. In my opinion.

    Well said.

  119. Watcher
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Anyone know if there is some way of watching the HBO eastern time programming in California? It drives me crazy waiting the extra three hours each week.

  120. PatD
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    I’m looking at you, iheartseverus.

    My bad. I thought this “chat” was for theorizing, and now I’ve had the episode all but spoiled for me. Last time I come here pre-show on a Sunday night.

  121. hhhh
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    … You do remember that he released Tyrion against Cersei’s or his father’s desires, right? He did not kill Aerys when “it was convenient”. He killed Aerys when Aerys was giving orders to burn the entire city to the ground.

    And claiming that Jaime “feels something for Cersei” is rather uncomplimentary of your reading comprehension skills. So he gave up Casterly Rock for a person he “feels something about”? So his almost every thought is about a person he “feels something about?” So he doesn’t sleep with any other women his entire life, and even rejects one after being a captive for a year, for a person he “feels something about?” What does the man have to do for you to decide that he actually loves Cersei? o.O

  122. ace
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    the uproar on ‘rumoured’ Jaime action in this episode is a bit spoilery. Nonbook readers who happend to go here, have now got clued-in on future developments on Jaime.

  123. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    TWO HOURS!!!!! I can’t wait!

  124. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    ace:
    the uproar on ‘rumoured’ Jaime action in this episode is a bit spoilery.Nonbook readers who happen to go here, have now got clued- in that Jaime will redeem himself on future episodes

    I know, at this rate they will need to have a ‘book reader’ open chat and a ‘new viewer’ open chat.

  125. StraightBlackMan
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    [spoiler]Honestly, the kinslaying thing by itself does not bother me that much. Sure, book Jaime would probably not do it, but I don’t think it screws with the character too much if there’s a good rationale for it. It’s not like Jaime has an extreme amount of love or loyalty for House Lannister in the books.

    What is extremely out of character for him, though, is murdering an innocent for his own gain. Killing Alton just to give himself a chance at escaping would make him pathetic and cowardly, and completely undermine his future development. It would be a huge and unnecessary change, for the sake of a cheap shock in one scene. [/spoiler]

    I’m not, by any measure, a book purist, and have mostly welcome the tv show’s changes with open arms, strange as some of them have seemed to me (Littlefinger’s characterization comes to mind). I am also among the majority which likes the episodes westeros.org hates. But if this goes down the way it’s described, this will be the show’s first major hiccup for me, and one I won’t be able to ignore easily. Would be even more worrying with this season’s tendency to go for cheap shocks, like Joffrey’s scene with the whores.

  126. hhhh
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    StraightBlackMan:
    Honestly, the kinslaying thing by itself does not bother me that much. Sure, book Jaime would probably not do it, but I don’t think it screws with the character too much if there’s a good rationale for it. It’s not like Jaime has an extreme amount of love or loyalty for House Lannister in the books.

    What is extremely out of character for him, though, is murdering an innocent for his own gain. Killing Alton just to give himself a chance at escaping would make him pathetic and cowardly, and completely undermine his future development. It would be a huge and unnecessary change, for the sake of a cheap shock in one scene.

    I’m not, by any measure, a book purist, and have mostly welcome the tv show’s changes with open arms, strange as some of them have seemed to me (Littlefinger’s characterization comes to mind). I am also among the majority which likes the episodes westeros.org hates. But if this goes down the way it’s described, this will be the show’s first major hiccup for me, and one I won’t be able to ignore easily. Would be even more worrying with this season’s tendency to go for cheap shocks, like Joffrey’s scene with the whores.

    Thank you.

  127. Remaal
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    StraightBlackMan,

    Please use spoil tags.

  128. Scholesy
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    What I find funny about this whole conversation is some here actually think this will matter one bit to the vast majority of the audience. We are talking about the guy that shags his sister, stabbed Ned in the leg, and tried to kill the most adorable little boy there is. Most won’t even care.

    As to those saying Jamie does things to protect the ones he loves. This does not contradict that one bit. Just because someone is related to you, that does not mean you care one bit about them.

    On the show, Jamie is clearly going through some serious self-loathing. The only thing driving him at this point is his love for his sister. All he can probably think about is shagging her again.

  129. PatD
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    OMG. You people are complaining BEFORE you see the show now???

    Heh. That’s actually funny when I think about it.

  130. daprosinik
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    PatD,

    It’s becoming ridiculous.

  131. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    daprosinik:
    PatD,

    It’s becoming ridiculous.

    BECOMING? It has gone far beyond ridiculous, my friend. It has become ludicrous.

  132. Maria Batsiou
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    I want a glimpse of the House of the Undying! A nice warming up just before Dany enters!

  133. Weirwood
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    Watcher:
    Anyone know if there is some way of watching the HBO eastern time programming in California? It drives me crazy waiting the extra three hours each week.

    My cable company has both HBO Eastern feed and the West Coast feed.

  134. LordStarkington
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    /casts retroactive spoiler tags

  135. Scholesy
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    Weirwood: My cable company has both HBO Eastern feed and the West Coast feed.

    As does mine. But I only have the west coast feed in HD.

  136. Malys Backfyre
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    in case you were wondering, the same guy who spoiled The Walking Dead seems to have Screaners for GoT

  137. Alan
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    hhhh:
    Alan,

    … You do remember that he released Tyrion against Cersei’s or his father’s desires, right? He did not kill Aerys when “it was convenient”. He killed Aeryswhen Aerys was giving orders to burn the entire city to the ground.

    Did he? On whose words do we have that? Another way of saying it is that he waited until his father was at the gates. Aerys did plenty of awful things. Jamie waited until it was safe for him to jump sides.

    And claiming that Jaime “feels something for Cersei” is rather uncomplimentary of your reading comprehension skills. So he gave up Casterly Rock for a person he “feels something about”? So his almost every thought is about a person he “feels something about?” So he doesn’t sleep with any other women his entire life, and even rejects one after being a captive for a year, for a person he “feels something about?” What does the man have to do for you to decide that he actually loves Cersei? o.O

    I wasn’t avoiding the word love intentionally, but I also don’t think Jaime has particularly deep feelings for other people at this point. I’m not going to try to argue a definition of love — in any venue that’s insane — but Jaime’s love for Cersei, while strong and passionate, has hardly seemed deep to me. He doesn’t really even understand her truly — either she changed along the way or he never knew her, but by the time he’s returned to KL, he realizes that he doesn’t know her now. The Cersei Jamie Lannister loves doesn’t sleep with Lancel while’s he gone, or the Kettlebacks, for loneliness or control. He doesn’t care for their children — perhaps understandably — but nothing about his relationship with Cersei actually screams a deep and lasting love to me. It screams of impetuous teenage movie love.

  138. Watcher
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    Scholesy: As does mine. But I only have the west coast feed in HD.

    Thank you so much! I hadn’t thought to look outside of the HD channels. I found HBO Eastern in the low definition channel list. You saved me a three hour wait. :-)

  139. PatD
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    Ya’ know, the books have been out for what? like 15 years. So, I’ve never been all that sympathetic to the non-readers about spoilers. IMO, if you really don’t want any of the book’s plots spoiled, you’d pretty much have to live in a cave now.

    But people coming on here spoiling the show’s few surprises… especially for those of us who actually look forward to the changes/surprises is a real dick move.

    But I’ve learned my lesson. I won’t come here pre-show Sundays, anymore. It’s not WiC.net’s fault. There’s just always gotta’ be an asshole who has to be the first to spill.

  140. Scholesy
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    Watcher: Thank you so much! I hadn’t thought to look outside of the HD channels. I found HBO Eastern in the low definition channel list. You saved me a three hour wait. :-)

    Glad the info could help. The show is so pretty that I like my first showing to be in HD, but sometimes I can’t resist.

  141. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    Okay, I took a chill pill and have already moved on . Jaime isn’t really superstitious. Maybe he doesn’t believe in curses. So why would killing a distant relative who Jaime doesn’t really know and could give two shits about in order to escape and get back to his sister matter to him?

  142. Andrew
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    You guys REALLY need to mention very clearly when you’re discussing spoilers for the show. Putting them in the book spoiler tags is not enough, and then replying to said spoilers without putting your response in spoiler tags doesn’t help much either. I haven’t highlighted any spoiler tags in this thread, and yet now I know exactly what you guys are talking about with Jamie. Cmon now.

  143. Abby Garrett
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    From what I can tell from the previews Brienne’s about to meet Jamie…hmmm should be interesting.

  144. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    On a brighter note – only one hour and thirteen minutes until the seventh episode! People, we’re lucky enough to have HBO supporting an adaptation of a book series we’re all passionate about, with an incredibly talented cast and crew, that the author himself is involved with. This is a dream adaptation that fans of other book series are never likely to get, so let’s all join TyrionPimpslap in enjoying a chill pill (or a drink, or a smoke…) and ENJOYING the freaking show. The books will still be there after the episode ends, make no mistake.

  145. Ducky
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    What’s under the spoiler tags totally changes what Jaime Lannister is all about – character assassination because of the writers Stark bias?

  146. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    ONE HOUR!!!!

  147. PatD
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    character assassination because of the writers Stark bias?

    That’s *gotta’* be it. By Jove, you must be on to something.

    *Major eyeroll*

  148. From Chaos
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets: On a brighter note – only one hour and thirteen minutes until the seventh episode! People, we’re lucky enough to have HBO supporting an adaptation of a book series we’re all passionate about, with an incredibly talented cast and crew, that the author himself is involved with. This is a dream adaptation that fans of other book series are never likely to get, so let’s all join TyrionPimpslap in enjoying a chill pill (or a drink, or a smoke…) and ENJOYING the freaking show. The books will still be there after the episode ends, make no mistake.

    Well Said, Thank you!

  149. Scholesy
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    Ducky:
    What’s under the spoiler tags totally changes what Jaime Lannister is all about – character assassination because of the writers Stark bias?

    Well at least they are bias to the good characters. :D

  150. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    ThePinkDragon:
    threeeeeeeee morrrrreeeee houuuuuuurs

    Ugh, I’m just going to eat myself into a coma during the wait.

    Me too! Pizza, meatballs, and garlic knots…mmmmmmm!

  151. daprosinik
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    Ducky,

    Writers Stark bias?? WTF is that. It is indeed ridiculous.

  152. Scholesy
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    daprosinik:
    Ducky,

    Writers Stark bias?? WTF is that. It is indeed ridiculous.

    I have come to the realization that a lot of people watch this show to complain about it. So I don’t really blink at the absurd.

    This is place is getting really hard to come to at this point. It brings me down after I enjoy another hour of my favorite show on television. Well my favorite show other then Justified.

  153. daprosinik
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    Scholesy,

    Thank god those people seem to be a minority.

  154. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    Ducky:
    What’s under the spoiler tags totally changes what Jaime Lannister is all about – character assassination because of the writers Stark bias?

    LOL. This had to be sarcasm. I will say this, Nicolaj seems to really know his character very well. He describes him exactly as I would describe Jaime. I don’t believe he has read the books, so obviously D&D, B.Cogman, and company did a pretty good job in helping Nicolaj with his portrayal.

  155. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    Scholesy: Well at least they are bias to the good characters. :D

    You can’t beat the duo of Tyrion and Jaime. Jon and Arya are great, but neither are as layered and complex as the Lannister brothers.

  156. T-Good
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    PatD,

    Me too. Waited a week and now I know the whole episode already…fail on my part coming up in here

  157. Scholesy
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap: You can’t beat the duo of Tyrion and Jaime.Jon and Arya are great, but neither are as layered and complex as the Lannister brothers.

    Complexity is neat and all, but it is not love. I like the characters the of Jaime and Tyrion and respect their place in the story. But I love Ned and his children. I care for their safety at an irrational level.

  158. Nate
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    No matter what all this arguing is over – I am looking forward to tonight’s episode regardless of whatever changes they make to the primary storyline.

  159. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

    HALF AN HOUR!!!

  160. Dogmayor
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

    Wow, I come into this thread and didn’t open any of the spoilers for the show and still got spoiled as to what was going to happen. Someone needs to enforce spoilers better on this site or have some sort of warning in the posts.

  161. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    15 MINUTES!

  162. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    10 MINUTES!

  163. Mike Chair
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Okay D&D, I fear not your changes!

    Let me have it!

  164. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    5 MINUTES

  165. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    4 MINUTES!

  166. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    3 MINUTES!!

  167. Arthur
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    All I’m going to say is Jaime better kick some ass and show us what one of the most legendary living swordsman of Westeros is capable of! I want to see some action! =]

  168. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    2 MINUTES!

  169. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    1 MINUTE!!!

  170. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    IT’S 9:00! LET’S DO THIS!!!

  171. Damryn of Dorne
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    Mothers day edition GOT, go!

  172. LordStarkington
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    BwB mention!

  173. Mike
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    PatD:
    OMG. You people are complaining BEFORE you see the show now???

    Heh. That’s actually funny when I think about it.

    I lol’d.

  174. Mimsy
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

    Arya and Tywin are KILLING it! Damn, I love her.

  175. Shock Me
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    So far hunting seems a lot like riding. Classic.

  176. Olive
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    “You know nothing, Jon Snow.” Yes!

  177. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

    Olive:
    “You know nothing, Jon Snow.” Yes!

    Waited one week and 22 minutes for that!

  178. Suzaku
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    rolle:
    Hopefully we get a lot of Jaime without stupid changes.

    Lot of Jaime without a lot of changes? Isn’t that a bit of an oxymoron? He didn’t appear in A Clash of Kings at all, as I recall.

  179. Dave
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    Suzaku,

    Yes, he did appear in ACoK, in Catelyn’s POV. Some of his scenes in ACoK were shown on the first season instead.

  180. Erik
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    book spoilers.

    I think it’s a common theory that the “little brother” who is prophesied to kill Cersi, isn’t Tyrion but rather Jamie. By the time the last two books are out, Jamie being a kinslayer might not be as out of character as you think.

  181. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    Weirwood: My cable company has both HBO Eastern feed and the West Coast feed.

    Ditto. It’s even more painful for me because I know the show is on but can’t watch it while my kid’s up.

  182. LordStarkington
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    Vague book spoilers;

    I’m actually intrigued by the changes to Dany’s storyline, even if it’s somewhat cheap drama. Really interested to see what happens in the House of the Undying.

    I didn’t buy Jaime killing Alton/Cleos at all, although I liked their conversation, I wish they’d been able to keep something closer to the original breakout attempt (disguised Lannister men with Alton/Cleos

    The jailer being Karstark’s son is kind of stupid. Really, they assign one of Lord Karstark’s sons to watch prisoners? It’s nitpicky, I know, but just seemed silly on top of the scene as a whole which I didn’t really like.

  183. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

    Ducky:
    What’s under the spoiler tags totally changes what Jaime Lannister is all about – character assassination because of the writers Stark bias?

    If they had a Stark bias don’t you think they would’ve found a way to make Ned look slightly less idiotic?

  184. John-Michael Lelievre
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    “You know nothing Jon Snow.” My dad had to come check on me to make sure I was ok when that happened aha.

  185. Weirwood
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    Well done D & D! That final scene packed quite the emotional wallop!

  186. Jonathan Daniel
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    Weirwood,

    Can someone explain who the 2 people hanging where at the end of the episode?

  187. Ms.Stormborn
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    Why did next week’s previews say “only 2 episodes left.” ? I thought it would go to 10 episodes per season!

  188. Brandon Stark
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    Jonathan Daniel:
    Weirwood,

    Can someone explain who the 2 people hanging where at the end of the episode?

    Well, not really. They’re intentionally ambiguous, but you’re supposed to assume they’re a certain two children.

  189. Jim
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    Wow. Amazing episode. A lot of changes but I think they worked really well for the SHOW.

  190. scott glennon
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    Another awesome episode!

  191. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    DAMN!!!! Now that was an episode! However it raised a question for aDwD:
    What with Xaro having stolen her dragons, I can’t quite see Dany welcoming him as an ambassador to Mereen. Also, with the Thirteen dead, Xaro can’t exactly get 10 ships from each of them to offer Dany. And if he does not offer Dany ships, how is Quarth going to go war against Mereen?. Anyway, did Jaime admit to Catelyn that he slept with Cersei in the books? I don’t remember him doing so. It was nice to see that they used that line about if the king is murdering the innocents… though the book version did not mention about ‘if your father hated the King’, IIRC. Loved the look on Jorah’s face when Quaithe was all “you love her, don’t you.”

  192. Suzaku
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    Jonathan Daniel:
    Weirwood,

    Can someone explain who the 2 people hanging where at the end of the episode?

    This episode spoiler: Bran and Rickon.

    Book / next episode spoiler: Not really.

  193. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    Ms.Stormborn:
    Why did next week’s previews say “only 2 episodes left.” ?I thought it would go to 10 episodes per season!

    It is 10 episodes this season… I don’t know why they said that because there are definitely 3 more:
    Episode 8 Prince of Winterfell
    Episode 9:Blackwater (written by GRRM) and
    Episode 10: Valar Morghulis.

  194. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    Jim,

    Love your comment. I think from now on we should capitalize SHOW on every comment in the episode recap thread.

  195. Tom Hedwyn Savage
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    Oh Fuck!!!!!! Spoiler tags didn’t work! I’ve request it to be deleted

  196. LordStarkington
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    wargsareawesome:
    Anyway, did Jaime admit to Catelyn that he slept with Cersei in the books? I don’t remember him doing so. It was nice to see that they used that line about if the king is murdering the innocents… though the book version did not mention about ‘if your father hated the King’, IIRC.

    He did admit it in their conversation where they agree to tell each other truths (the one where Catelyn asks if he intended to kill Bran and Jaime responds “I rarely hurl children from windows for their health” or something like that, was hoping to get that line).

  197. mimi
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    What a fab episode! I am continually amazed at the wonderful acting. Thumbs up!

    I LIKE the changes. Esp the Khaleesi story line. Her stories in the book were a bit dull to me and D&D have improved it, IMHO.

    Finally…….’You know nothing Jon Snow’……………Yes! I could teach him a thing or three myself………………

  198. Eric Fitch
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    I’m hoping they deviate from the books a bit more and have Jorah tap that sweet Targaryen behind.

  199. Gay for Cersei
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    hhhh: Jaime does bad things for love. That’s something essential for the character. If D&D have changed that, they’ve completely changed the character

    Aye. And it would be a shame cuz the book Jaime I loved to hate … but really hated to love. Tonight makes it harder to imagine sympathizing with him in the future.

    And what’s with Cersei’s tender moments this episode, and … what was that wetness in her eyes? lol

    Wow, with three episodes left I’m wondering how they are going to pack it all in. Will they fully go down the rabbit hole to the House of the Undying? How elaborate will that be cuz the book was a trip. I hope they do, and I hope it’s gooooood. And will the Red Wedding be the season cliffhanger, or will it be Catelyn’s new personage (as I remember the 2nd book ending)? How are they going to cover it all?!! … [chewing fingernails]

  200. Zigzag7
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    “Are there no sheep at the Wall” LOL Ygritte just paid out new zealanders. :P

  201. Gay for Cersei
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    Eric Fitch: I’m hoping they deviate from the books a bit more and have Jorah tap that sweet Targaryen behind.

    No way, man. Keep her celibate for now. It’ll be that much hotter later on. I haven’t finished book 5, but I’m hoping and counting on Danaerys releasing all her years of repression on Daario. And I trust they will cast someone delicious in his role.

    Personally, I can’t wait for Ygritte to take a bite out of Jon. He looks tasty.

  202. Tito
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 11:29 pm | Permalink

    I am will to turn crazy if I have to wait until next year for just another 10 episodes. Seasons should last 20 episodes! Starks are getting plucked off left and right. Today Lady Stark received the worst Mother’s day present twice over!

  203. The Instrumentalist
    Posted May 13, 2012 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    Gay for Cersei,

    You’re thinking of the third book, which will be split into two seasons. Most likely the cliffhanger of the first will be the red wedding (or a little after that, to diffuse tension) and the second will end with the revealing of Uncat… muhahahahaha!

  204. Joh
    Posted May 14, 2012 at 2:50 am | Permalink

    Oh man, Ygritte is completely stealing the show.

    I was impressed with this episode.
    – still loving the between interplay Tywin and Arya
    - and Shae and Sansa.
    - and was surprisingly touched by the scene where Cersei spills her heart out to Tyrion
    - More Quaithe! Also I am loving Jorah more in the show than in the books. Iain Glen is brilliant.
    - The Robb/Talisa scenes are starting to feel more natural. My heart flutters a little bit knowing what may happen next…
    - Lord Bolton still manages to be creepy even when he doesn’t have any lines
    - This stolen dragon storyline is going places. I only hope that they keep Xharo alive and around to scheme and plot in later seasons
    - that final scene and Luwin scream was like a punch in the gut. I’m so glad I read the books first otherwise I would have been crying for hours.

    Changes I didn’t like…

    - Jaime killing Alton. And his story about squiring for Barristan Selmy. It seems…so out of character.

    Granted, I’ve been very happy with all of the character rewrites so far except for Sansa. I loved Sansa in the books, but I felt like she really was an unlikable character in the show.
    The writers reduced her to an unbelievable and unsympathetic cardboard cutout of a bratty, spoiled teenage girl. Which, considering she would have been trained from an early age to display the courtesy and good manners expected of a lady, was rather unrealistic.
    I felt sorry for the actress. Sophie Turner seems very talented, why would they rob her of so many good moments and lines?

    Anyway. I’m feeling the same way about the rewrite of Jaime. Jaime was not exactly a likable or sympathetic character in most of the Ice and Fire series, but in the GOT adaptation, I’m not sure what they are trying to do with him.

    All of the lines they give Coster-Waldau about butchery? It seems gross and unnecessary. Yeah, we get it. Jaime is a violent person, who lives by a violent code. And after the final scene with Alton? Even Hannibal Lecter shows more depth and appeal.

  205. Cal
    Posted May 14, 2012 at 4:57 am | Permalink

    Nicely said.

    Blackfish,

  206. Hanna from Sweden
    Posted May 14, 2012 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    I thought this episode was awesome! I really liked the way Ygritte now has Jon as her captive. Sad for Jon, but a nice spin to the story.
    I also enjoyed Daenerys destiny in this episode. How she is now some sort of prisoner. I wonder if she will visit the house of the undying. Hope she does, I think it would be a cool scene to watch.

    What I did not like was the scene were Cersei was crying. Felt like she only was trying to get some pity out if Tyrion. I believe that is rotten to the core, almost as rotten as King Joffrey. She has no right to be “forgiven” for her sins.

    Last but not least, was it supposed to look like Bran and Rickon in the last scene of the episode?
    If so, that sucks. Personally I don’t think that it is the Stark children hanging there burned.
    What do you guys think? And how is that scene connected to the book? :) is it true to the book? :)

  207. PAK
    Posted May 14, 2012 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I love the story arc with Jon, but the actress playing Ygrette is very annoying. Is she chewing on on leather or something? Very weird facial movement. I hope they swap her out fast cause it spoils the Jon scenes.

    I have not read books yet and am annoyed so many posts talk about book content.

    Cersei is playing Tyrion I think.

    The two burned bodies at the end I don’t believe are the Stark boys.

    Big cast, numerous story arcs but I am addicted. I’d like more of Jon (without the current Ygrette actress), Robb, Tyrion.

    Regardless of book purists, I don’t know and don’t care what is supposed to happen, this is a movie, not the book. Jaime is evil. Hope that Theon loses his head. Joffrey seriously needs to die.

  208. Doug
    Posted May 15, 2012 at 1:44 am | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    You judge to quick. I have read all of the books and I like the changes for Daenerys. Her story was terribly boring in book 2 until the very end. The changes they are making are good for the show and are not affecting her overall story. Eventually a character named Missandanei will come in and she is better then Irri was anyway. I don’t know if they will keep that name for her though lol.

  209. Doug
    Posted May 15, 2012 at 2:00 am | Permalink

    PAK,

    Oh Jaime is evil huh? Are you sure? You sound pretty sure. Even though if you HAD READ THE BOOKS You’d know this show will need at least 8 seasons to finish, if not more. A lot can change over those time periods. I’m sure though, about a lot of things. The biggest thing is that about Ygritte, which you spelled wrong…. THAT YOU ARE WRONG. She plays Ygritte absolutely perfect, and “you know nothing Pak.” And it’s not a movie, it’s a long running TV show. Get it right or don’t talk lol.

  210. Jimalim
    Posted May 15, 2012 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    Did bran and the other stark child really die at the end of this episode?

    Please answer!

  211. AryaRocks
    Posted May 15, 2012 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Saying many people would, is just a gross presumption. That was an impressionable kid and you could easily just threaten to kill him if word got out of what he’d seen. Or something, other than killing him. At any rate, it wasnt just the fact that he shoved the boy, but the impunity with which he did it. That was low.

  212. Mike
    Posted May 15, 2012 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

    Rukie44: I can’t wait for Jaime’s scene. This is the episode that Nikolaj said his favorite acting experience he’s ever done occurs in, right?

  213. Mike
    Posted May 15, 2012 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    Someone plz tell me where is GreatJon……….?:(

    KING IN THE NORTH!!!!!

  214. vlyman
    Posted May 19, 2012 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

    As someone who hasn’t read the books I’d say yeah, Jamie is pretty horrible and personally I’d like to see him dead sooner rather than later. He tries to kill an innocent boy, attacks Ned Stark and kills his men, kills his worshiping cousin in an attempt to free himself, and for all we know, he had a hand in poisoning the hand of the king that preceded Ned Stark. His only redeeming quality so far his loyalty to the sister that he’s screwing, which really doesn’t seem that redeeming to me. At least as far as the series is concerned so far, he seems pretty cruel and evil, and I see no reason to admire him at all. Because he killed the king which was needed for health of the realm? Well, we don’t have the backstory on that yet so I can’t be the judge of it. Because he doesn’t profess loyalty to anyone but the sister he’s bedding? Not that appealing, really. He may be some great anti-hero in the book who we can love for his real morality that supersedes oaths, but in the series he’s pretty scummy. It pretty much seems like he’s a dick to everyone but Cersei, and that’s pretty disgusting too.


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