The ratings for last Sunday are in, via TV by the Numbers.
Game of Thrones remained steady with 3.9 million for the initial airing, the unrounded number (3.879) still a tad better than the premiere in April. The 18-49 share went up to a round 2.0 for what it’s worth. Top of the list again, alongside NBA playoffs.
UPDATE: The repeat airing reached over 0.8 million additional viewers, thus the total Sunday number is 4.7 million, level with last week.
Hear Me Roar: We can be happy with the numbers, I think. If the show is not losing any viewers, it means that it can only gain new ones. And with the concluding episodes approaching the definition of appointment television, that is surely going to happen.
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102 Comments
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ChristyQuote Reply
I’m sure ratings will be on the rise after The Old Gods and the New. Was definitely the most entertaining episode so far! And that opening 10-minute sequence involving Theon in Winterfell was amazing TV.
Mark AgiusQuote Reply
great work team!
KingthlayerQuote Reply
As much as I want the numbers to surpass 4 million, it is kind of funny how each week I see this post and its “its got to happen next week” vibe.
ScholesyQuote Reply
Third again?
This is good news (the ratings, not me posting 3rd again)
Hope to see even better ratings as the season draws to an end (yikes)!
Long Winter is coming (until season 3)
UdiQuote Reply
We’ll hit that 4.0 mark soon enough.
CurbYourEnthusiasmQuote Reply
After the Blackwater episode there is no way the show is not gonna reach 4 million .
Claudiu GherganuQuote Reply
Ah! 5th, not 3rd… meh
UdiQuote Reply
I’d be interested to see how many total views Season 2, Episode 1 has now.
CurbYourEnthusiasmQuote Reply
We should wait for the adjusted ratings, that include both the second showing as well as the HBO GO viewership. Since HBO is nearly simulcasting the HBO GO stream alongside the initial showing, just looking at the latter isn’t that helpful.
If the overall ratings are static, though, then it’s troubling. That might be an indication that the show is starting to settle into an established audience, one which might not be big enough to keep it going unless the Blu-Rays continue to sell very well.
BrettQuote Reply
I always try to keep in mind that HBO is a pay service. No one is shelling out an extra 15 bucks a month plus basic cable to watch the NBA playoffs.
DirehoundQuote Reply
Scholesy,
Hehe, it’s true, any moment now :P
Hear Me RoarQuote Reply
Not to mention there are other tv shows at the same time ( Mad Men) for example .
Claudiu GherganuQuote Reply
Brett,
So far, the overall total numbers have been on the increase, last we heard the average per episode was at around 11 million.
Hear Me RoarQuote Reply
Looks like my prediction last week that this week would be a drop-off was correct. I was actually expecting a bigger drop-off than this. Episode 5 was pretty slow going so this small drop is actually good news. I predict that next week will see the 4.0 million mark either hit or even surpassed as people tune in to find out the answer to “DUDE, WHERE’S MY DRAGONS?!”
Carey TranQuote Reply
Mad Men is on after GoT. My favorite two hours of the week :D
ElaineQuote Reply
Yea, but unfortunately I heard that the UK viewings have been the lowest so far .
Claudiu GherganuQuote Reply
Blackwater will bring in 4 million if the advertisers are any good at their jobs.
sunspearQuote Reply
I still think these are great numbers. That fact that there’s been no drop at all from the initial episode is impressive.
jdp13Quote Reply
Brett,
Agree with the first paragraph (although I’m not sure who you mean by “we”, and am even more confused on why “we”need to wait for cumulative numbers), but don’t agree at all with the second paragraph. Consistent numbers doesn’t provide any immediate cause for concern, whatsoever. What will be really interesting to see is how much the overall ratings increase once GoT has stopped airing. Obviously there will be subscribers who do so for specific shows (True Blood & The Newsroom this summer/fall, and Boardwalk Empire/Tremè this fall/winter), so seeing how much is gained while the show isn’t airing should be more telling.
And believe me, the current U.S. numbers Game of Thrones is pulling (with a 2.0 in the demo, at that) on its initial airing is impressive. The cumulative numbers for the night, and then the week total are even more so. Game of Thrones has positioned itself as HBO’s flagship series; it won’t be going anywhere.
Pastor_of_MuppetsQuote Reply
People have to remember that steady ratings throughout the season is actually EXTREMELY good for a heavily serialized cable drama like this. Look at what’s going on with AMC’s Mad Men and The Killing; both shows have been steadily declining since their premiers, with Mad Men shedding over a million total viewers.
What steady ratings means is that new viewers are coming in to replace those that fall behind and drop off. When the end of the season comes, people will start catching up and watching the premier airings again and ratings will go up significantly. I think 4.5 million for the finale is quite reachable.
Carey TranQuote Reply
And 12 billion people went to go see The Avengers over the weekend… Go figure.
A show based on an epic modern day masterpiece, or a piece of corporate propaganda based on a cheap amalgamated comic book? U d-cyde Murka! #ohmygodarepeoplefuckingstupid
Varamyr FourskinsQuote Reply
Varamyr Fourskins,
I love ASOIAF, I love GoT, and I really enjoyed The Avengers… Go figure.
HuckQuote Reply
The dragon napping is quite brilliant. I hope they don’t flame out that story with a let down follow up. I want to see some scared and pissed off dragon response! The non book readers in my group watch were all “WHO’S TAKING THE DRAGONS?!! WHERE ARE THEY GOING?!?” and I was like… “I DON’T KNOW!!!” WTF!
So, thank you HBO for making me enjoy Dany’s story a little more. I’m glad to see the ratings keeping steady.
MimsyQuote Reply
The UK’s ratings have been bad because it’s on Sky Atlantic and most people don’t have that channel..
LalaQuote Reply
Well, the US ratings could be better if more people had HBO and then more people tuned it at 9 pm eastern time on HBO. However, now is not the time to make apologies. Now is the time to dig deep in your pocket and spend money on fantasy shows. I have been buying HBO subscriptions for all my friends and I suggest if you are a real fan you should do the same.
hello nasty RIPQuote Reply
Lala,
???? Sky Atlantic is a great channel and only requires the basic package. The first season had pretty good ratings.
The KingslayerQuote Reply
Varamyr Fourskins,
The Avengers kicked ass.
The KingslayerQuote Reply
It’s not really up or down. The difference between the two weeks is well within the margin sample of error (95% is +- .6 ratings points) meaning that a slightly higher or lower number means absolutely nothing. With a rating point equalling about 1.15 million households, that means that margin of error on number of viewers is over 600,000 people.
Anywho, I don’t expect the series to grow much in season, except for people getting through on demand of the first season and then jumping in. It’s not a program easily jumped into — so while there may be growth, the complexity of the series works against it. I think most jumps will be between seasons.
AlanQuote Reply
Haven’t seen it yet, but Avengers written by Joss Whedon (Buffy, Firefly, Toy Story) – yes, please.
AlanQuote Reply
Whedon was involved with Toy Story ?
The KingslayerQuote Reply
The “margin of error” you’re talking about only applies to the error between the sample used by Nielsen and actual viewership. But the number of Nielsen households that tuned in to GoT did ACTUALLY decrease. Did population viewership decline? Perhaps not, but statistically speaking, the probability of a decline in population viewership is greater than the probability of an increase if the sample viewership declined.
If we shift the parameters and make Nielsen households the population, then the ratings do have a direct correlation with the amount of plot movement in the prior episode.
Carey TranQuote Reply
Good to see the numbers are staying put! I myself catch the rerun at 11 since I can’t catch the 9 showing :/ but still DVR it just in case.
outlaw_moonQuote Reply
You know, it’s funny how much we all here (and other fan sites) have been waiting with bated breath for the Battle of the Blackwater. (BtB).
But now that I think about it, even though I’m looking forward to it, big battles have never been my favorite thing to watch. In fact, I was bored reading that scene in the book. I want to see it, but I love the revealing and big character moments even more so. Theon razing Winterfell will be hard to top.
And we all know, that even though D&D got more money for this season, the BtB will still leave some viewers disappointed: it wasn’t big enough. It wasn’t long enough. There weren’t enough ships, etc.
Give me a long scene of Dany in the House of the Undying, or Arya and Tywin, or Sansa and her dilemma and I’d be just as happy.
I do hope that the BtB kicks major ass, though.
HollyoakQuote Reply
I’ve got no worries in the show picking up or gaining new viewers. I am on vacation right now in Hawaii (Flew in Sunday night, leaving next Sunday so no GOTs for me for 2 weeks!!!!) and as I was flying here I spotted 3 COKs books and 2 ASOSs that people were bringing on the plane to read. And it was just funny seeing that all of them were either eldery (early to late 60s) or the “I only read Clancy or Patterson” looking type. None of them had any hints of Scifi/Fantasy fanhood in them, just regular joes enjoying the same series we are. I talked to a most of them, from that I was able to ascertain my previous comment, and that they are hooked on the series and are loving the books even more. Back to my original point: I can only see this show and series gaining more and more viewers by the end of the season.
KlavonivsQuote Reply
Klavonivs,
Disagree. I think if less people read the books then more people would love the show. Book readers in their 60′s won’t be too excited about watching the show after reading those books I think.
But to leave on a positive note, I believe that this show will hit 4 million by the end of the season because it’s the best tv show ever.
hello nasty RIPQuote Reply
hello nasty RIP,
Really??? Less people reading = more people loving the show??? So does that mean I should stop watching since I’ve read the books???? That comment makes no sense whatsoever…it’s the people that originally read the books that got this series to where it is today. You think that a book series like this that didn’t turn out to be a best selling series would’ve been picked up for television??? I personally can’t wait for certain scenes that I read years ago to be recreated for my eyes to see. And how about all the people who read Hunger Games, look how well that movie did at the box office and your comment has turned to moot. “Sorry but I guess we will have to agree to disagree:)
KlavonivsQuote Reply
Yes, the number of Nielsen households that watched at 9pm did decrease.
Your comment on probability doesn’t really hold, but let’s forget that and just concentrate on your contention that there is a “direct correlation with plot movement in the prior episode” and that you correctly predicted a decline based on that idea.
There are 25,000 Nielsen households out of 115,000,000. The viewership numbers they published only accounted for a 24,000 person drop.
I don’t know the demographics, but the average in a household is over 3, though I can imagine GOT having a decent single and married with no kids population, so let’s call it three people. That means 24,000 people is roughly 8,000 households down.
That’s about TWO Nielsen households in their sampling, from my math.
I could be off here or there, but I’m not going to chalk up two, or five, or even shifts of twenty or fifty to “plot” when it could simply be “we had a later dinner so we tivo’d it” or “I wanted to watch that basketball game first” or “I was tired.”
People view these rating with too much precision. Nielsen supposedly redid their sampling plan, but it’s not a random sample inherently — it’s opt in, with a questionable sample size and demographic info is even sketchier so even the stated margin of error is probably understated.
AlanQuote Reply
Carey Tran,
It’s about level with last week at 4.7 million which is including the repeat viewing. The initial viewing was only just under by 24k people… What about this week makes your prediction in any way accurate? Bizarre.
VinceQuote Reply
One of many writers involved.
AlanQuote Reply
Hollyoak,
Agreed. I think there’s too much hype for the Blackwater episode. I keep hearing people say things like “Just wait until Blackwater!” and “It’s going to be 60 minutes of non-stop battle!”. I’m sure it will be great, but best episode of the season? Probably not. Mark my words: there will still be disappointment/complaints in some form.
I always thought I was a “battles” guy, but you know… the Blackwater kind of bored me in the book as well. I think I like smaller scale violence (duels, skirmishes, etc.) and character driven moments (like Theon/Rodrik this week, or Jon/Ygritte).
LexQuote Reply
I disagree with your opinion. I loved the show before I read the books and I think the show is a fantastic compliment to the book series. Is it perfect? Probably, not, but as a book reader I expect and prefer the books to be superior to anything I will ever see on screen.
If anything, I think book readers from years ago are fueling the GOT hype more than any passing reader ever would. I think if more people read the books then more people would love for the show to exist.
MimsyQuote Reply
Lex,
I’m preparing myself for an underwhelming episode too, at least actionwise. I have all the faith they can convey the enormous emotional impact it has on several characters, but two armies fighting the shit out of eachother including boats and green fucking fire probably will never look as awesome on the tv as some people imagine it will be.
KnurkQuote Reply
Every show has peaks and valleys through the seasons. Considering the ratings other HBO shows are getting at the moment, it’s a safe bet that Game of Thrones will be their spring show for a while.
dizzy_34Quote Reply
I must say that the Blackwater read for me was a nail biter. The burning of the ships and all of Davos’ sons! His SONS!! Holy crap! I think the strategy and how it was playing out and seeing the opponent try to beat the odds was truly epic for me. I know what you’re saying about typical battle scenes. Kill, kill… hack a leg off.. etc, but Blackwater was so much more than that to me. It was complete and utter chaos for Stannis.. destruction of Kings Landing… Pod’s courage.. Tyrion’s brilliance.. Joffrey’s posing and Cersei’s plan B. Just writing about it is bringing back all of the memories of when I first read the battle scene! Tremendous!
MimsyQuote Reply
dizzy_34,
It’s officially a quarterly tentpole with True Blood and Boardwalk Empire, and whatever experiments they want to conduct in the winter. With TB and BE starting to wane and taper off, I think HBO will be all the more interested in continuing to re-invest in a critical darling and mainstay like GoT. We’ll get that 4th season yet.
JonSnow’sBastardQuote Reply
Mimsy,
I don’t know. I wish I hadn’t read the books. That way I would take the show for face value and might not be judging it all the time. It pisses me off that I do, but I can’t help it. I refuse to inject details that D&D didn’t write in.
Don’t get me wrong though, the books are a lot better than the show. But having read the books is keeping me from having a good show experience, maybe.
smackless headlarftQuote Reply
Disbelieve all you want. I correctly predicted that Episode 5 would see a sizable jump after Episode 4′s ending, then I correctly predicted that Episode 6 would see a slight drop because Episode 5 was slow. And the number of viewers for the initial airing at 9PM does indicate the level of eagerness for the episode.
I am going to predict that Episode 7 will see another jump, at the very least to 3.95 million. Will you two come back to this thread to eat crow if I am right?
Carey TranQuote Reply
Mimsy,
I enjoyed Blackwater a LOT more when I re-read it. But the first time, I found the opening naval chapter kind of a slog (with all the descriptions of the various ships, etc.). Well, until the wildfire was released… Then it was just awesome! :)
LexQuote Reply
I think next week or maybe the week after is when the show will finally cross that 4m mark. The key is to keep the more casual viewers interested and this last weeks episode was very well received by them and I would say the majority of books readers too. I doubt anyone who has read the books and has HBO would ever stop watching even if they’re upset with changes but the casual viewers will stop watching if they are not into it. The fact that the ratings remained steady all these weeks with some of these slower episodes and new characters arcs is impressive. It was funny to see the reaction on twitter which was extremely positive in general but every single negative opinion I read was a book reader complaining”their changing things” ” just stick to the story”"they ruining it!”. I remember checking out twitter reactions after some of the early episodes this season and there were a lot of nonreader complaints about “not feeling it this season”and “who are all these new people?” after this weeks it was all raves from the nonreaders, lots of “best episode ever” comments. That was probably one of the most consistently suspenseful and exciting episode Game of Thrones has ever had and the only Game of Thrones tv show fans who would watch an episode like that and think it was bad would be because they read the source material and have to do their nerdy duties and complain about changes to source material never mind the fact that they are still hitting all the main plot points of the source material and making one hell of an entertaining hour of TV while doing it.
JamesLQuote Reply
JonSnow’sBastard,
I totally agree that True Blood is nearing the end of its time on HBO, but Boardwalk Empire is hardly “tapering off”, and most certainly isn’t going anywhere for at least another couple of seasons. The second season of BE was better than the first, I (and many others) thought, and the death of Jimmy will not detract viewers from tuning in in the same way Ned’s death didn’t stop people from tuning in. Controversy breeds interest.
Also, the Newsroom looks to be setting itself up to take over for True Blood, and also looks pretty damned great at that. I’m willing to bet Treme sees a fourth and final season, as well. In the meantime, Game of Thrones will continue to dominate the spring (along with Girls and Veep showing for at least another season), so HBO only needs to get something great scheduled for the beginning of the year as a lead-in to Game of Thrones. If Luck (as amazing as it was) had been a bigger hit, we’d be seeing slightly higher numbers for GoT.
Pastor_of_MuppetsQuote Reply
3.95 is still within the margin of error. I wouldn’t even consider that a real increase. Perhaps if you made a prediction that could be in any way significantly measured.
But even if it did go up, it hardly determines causality. Sure, it makes absolute sense that after a “good” episode the ratings go up the next week. And yes, many of us can figure what a good episode means.
But the ratings have barely budged at all, all season. There was a steady increase in season one, with the largest jumps between after episode 2 — which was one of the worst of the season — at roughly 10%, then after Episode 7 (~14%), then Episode 9 (over 15%). (Ironically enough, a lot of people thought the plot of Baelor would drive down viewership).
A couple of those are great episodes, but so was Episode 6 (A Golden Crown) and that saw a drop. So did “The Pointy End.”
The largest jump in season in season 2 was after episode 4 — which a lot of people liked and a lot of people disliked.
How good a previous episode is would definitely be something I would expect to effect viewer figures. But Game of Thrones has actually been incredibly stable. Claiming some weird sort of credit for about as stable rating as possible as a slide that you predicted is ridiculous. And even if the program goes up a bit, there’s a lot of factors that could affect it.
Quality of programming does affect viewership, but I think GOT’s stability likely has more to do with a fanatical base, a high cost of entry to watching, and a history of quality that hopefully can withstand a bad episode or two.
AlanQuote Reply
Pastor_of_Muppets,
“Boardwalk Empire is hardly “tapering off”
Boardwalk Empire has been tapering off since the series premiere which I thought was great. The 1st season was a disappointment though imo and a lot of other peoples considering the ratings for season 2 were down and I think they will be even lower for season 3 considering they killed off one of the only remotely interesting characters on that show that is populated will dull characters and boring story arcs. Richard Harrow is the only reason worth watching now.
JamesLQuote Reply
I am very excited for Newsroom.
I think a lot of people to date have kind of rooted against other HBO programming under the idea that GOT is therefore more important to HBO. But given the realities of cash flows and when cost cutting occurs (it’s when things are bad), I wonder if we shouldn’t be rooting for a golden age of HBO. Large corporate profits means more willingness to make less/invest/lose a bit of money on something like GOT. That may not be true if HBO is struggling.
I’m not sure if its really relevant either way.
AlanQuote Reply
It’s difficult for a show like Game of Thrones to gain viewers midseason since there’s such a learning curve to get up to speed on what is happening. It’s like Lost. The fact that it’s holding steady is good. The point where it’s going to gain viewers is after the season ends and more people pick up the DVDs or watch online to get caught up.
I’m pleased that there hasn’t been a drop-off. There’s been a few things that might have annoyed viewers the past few weeks like the scene with Joffrey. At work, I heard the complaint from a non-book reader that “they kill off all the characters you like” and I do wonder exactly how much people can take of the carnage. It’s a good sign that viewers aren’t dropping off. Or at least, they might miss one week and then decide they can’t stay away for that long.
StaciaQuote Reply
Nobody cares about your pointless predictions.
MWQuote Reply
Don’t feel bad. My first occurrence of doubting my book knowledge and spoiling the show was when Dany’s dragons were taken. BUT, then I thought to myself, now am I really being spoiled by the books and knowing that the dragons weren’t stolen or is it just that I’m an active online fan and is that “active” part that is really semi spoiling this scene for me? I’m thinking, if it weren’t for my active fangirling, then it wouldn’t have mattered if I had read the books prior to watching that scene.
Even still I’m not really spoiled on the books for having that scene in the series, it was just a surprise and I don’t know what’s going to come of it. In a way it’s good, because I love surprises.. so I’m still all for what I expressed earlier.
You are having trouble separating what you read and what you see and you’re not being very flexible in your imagination. I understand that and I can see how it may be difficult for you, but it’s just the way you are and what can you do right? If it’s any consolation, I’m glad you read the books because IMO they are on the total bucket list of reads. Now we just gotta work on your amnesia skills! =)
MimsyQuote Reply
LOL
I’m the LAST person to enjoy a naval battle description. My brain has a self defense mechanism that shuts me down when I start reading about ship descriptions and first mates.. and whatever! If there isn’t a handsome, swoon worthy pirate on board, then I don’t wanna read about it. ha ha!
So, if a person like ME can enjoy Blackwater, then just about anybody can appreciate it.
MimsyQuote Reply
No way, there are a LOT of good reasons to watch BE, but I agree that he is one of the better ones. I really think BE is an under-appreciated show, especially it’s second season. There are so many things that show does better than just about any other show, whether you find it entertaining or not.
ChrisQuote Reply
I think even if they nail the BW battle, it may still be a divisive episode. There are a lot of people that just aren’t really into battles, and a lot of people that could care less about that in GoT and watch it for all of the other reasons.
I think the key will be pulling off the battle scenes but also keeping a strong thread of human elements driving the episode.
ChrisQuote Reply
I don’t think there is something wrong with me that creates a difficulty enjoying the show. I think it’s a bit offensive to say that, but whatever. If we were both heard stories about a legendary statue and once seeing it one person likes it and the other doesn’t, it doesn’t mean there is something wrong with the person that doesn’t like it especially when there is an irrefutable comparison with the legends that have created expectations.
However, now that you mention it, I think that if I hadn’t read the books, I definitely would not watch the show. Thanks for helping me see that.
smackless headlarftQuote Reply
YES! Lolz…
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Theon doesn’t burn Winterfell. The Bastard of Bolton does.
StubertQuote Reply
The Kingslayer,
Agreed about the Avengers. Damn good couple of hours entertainment………. “better clench up Legolas”….LOL! Priceless.
Two FeathersQuote Reply
Winter is Coming always puts a positive spin on the stats, but to me they are disappointing. Not to have reached 4 million yet 6 episodes in is worse than everyone here was hoping for. At the beginning of the season people were talking big about catching True Blood and such. Now we are pretending that ‘holding steady’ is great?
The ratings are fine, probably HBO is happy with them. But I was really hoping this show would explode this season and ensure us a long run and a bigger budget. Oh well. Seems the shows fantasy premise was just too much to fully appeal to mainstream viewers.
MattL86Quote Reply
This one also came to the books AFTER becoming fascinated by/addicted to the TV show. Even though all the detail in the books will not be seen on screen, enough is there and the acting/production is so good that I LOVE IT even MORE after reading the books. So more readers = more watchers is totally possible. It is known.
Question…since the TV series began, have book sales increased?
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Alan,
You’re absolutely on the ball with that, and I agree that a lot of the fans of Game of Thrones see the other drama programs on the network as being in some kind of competition with Game of Thrones – it’s actually the complete opposite.
Think about the fact that HBO reported a loss of 35 million dollars due to the cancellation of Luck earlier in the year; does anyone think that was a good thing? No, the only good thing that could have possibly come out of it was Luck being a hit among their subscribers (which I have no doubt it could have been had more people been able to watch it throughout the year as they subscribed for the others shows that air on HBO).
I’m a subscriber of HBO year-round for the simple fact that I trust them to consistently provide great original programming, and the more great original shows HBO can add to their roster, the better for every show they’re currently airing or have in production.
If you ask me, HBO is on the cusp of another golden age. In addition to Game of Thrones they have True Blood (pulpy but still better than a lot of original network programming, and much better than reality TV), the upcoming The Newsroom (Aaron Sorkin + HBO + fantastic cast = win), Boardwalk Empire (opinions vary, but the DVD/Blu-Ray sales were very good, and the show is an award-winning ensemble piece with a number of great actors), and Tremè (slow, but a really incredible show, nonetheless). In addition to Luck, which was unfortunately cancelled, no other channel has a line-up of dramatic programming so clearly aimed towards affluent adults than HBO.
And let’s not forget their half-hour programs: The Ricky Gervais Show, Life’s Too Short, Girls, Veep, and Enlightened (I may be missing something, as well). I personally enjoy all of these programs, however I can see how they wouldn’t all be to everyones’ taste. My point is, the stronger the line-up of original shows (and let’s not also forget their mini-series, original films, non-scripted talk, sports, and adult programming, and their original documentaries), the stronger their brand. And for a subscription based model, brand and reputation are everything. If it weren’t for the strength of HBO’s past programming, we wouldn’t be watching Game of Thrones at all, and I doubt many people who were never into fantasy as a genre would have bothered to even check it out in the first place.
Pastor_of_MuppetsQuote Reply
Mrs. H’ghar,
Oh God, have book sales increased. All five books are usually on the bestseller list’s top 30-35 or so, and some of them twice (trade paperback and paperback).
MattL86Quote Reply
My deepest apologies. I didn’t mean it as an offense and I’m sorry if it came off as such. I wasn’t trying to make any pointed jabs at you or saying that you were incapable of imagination. That was not what I meant and it wasn’t my intention to make you feel bad. I was restating what I thought you were expressing, which was that you were having a difficult time unknowing what you know about the books, if that makes sense. I didn’t mean to offend you.
MimsyQuote Reply
We can safely say they increased by 2. :) I hear they’ve always been pretty good at selling all on their own, but I’m sure they have increased quite a bit since the HBO series. The books are front and center at most stores now thanks to the show.
MimsyQuote Reply
MattL86,
Agreed. The show seems to have hit a wall or something. I’m curious to see total weekly numbers no. True Blood’s trajectory was simply better, which comes back to the show simply appealing to larger audiences more than a show like Game Of Thrones. I’d rather have steady numbers than falling numbers but still, it’s an interesting situation.
More Rice CooksQuote Reply
MattL86,
The ratings are more than fine; the ratings are excellent. There’s simply no need to “put a positive spin” on things, as you put it, because these ratings are positive. Look at the overall growth between the first season and this second season, then take into account the overall viewing numbers (which is the only number HBO is concerned with, seeing as they have no advertisers to please), and you’ll see why HBO isn’t fretting over these outstanding numbers.
Take a look at TVBytheNumbers if you still have doubts; a subscription cable service available to an estimated 28 million people is pulling better numbers on their initial airing than most basic cable and network shows on the same night – that’s not normal. And like I said, the initial airing means virtually nothing to HBO in terms of a show getting renewed. Luck was given a second season despite the fact that it averaged about 600,000 views between both initial airings combined on Sunday nights. Why? Because throughout the week its totals came to about four and a half million.
The sky is not falling, ladies and gentlemen. I repeat, the sky is not falling.
Pastor_of_MuppetsQuote Reply
Thanks Matt. And that probably doesn’t count the ebook sales, which would include myself and Jaqen (lolzzzz).
Episode 6 is the first one that was so compelling and full of action that I had to watch it 3 times in a row to make sure I saw everything. So good.
Don’t know how they count the ratings, but it will be interesting to see if the more action-filled episodes do better than the ones where there is more “quiet set-up with dialogue” time.
Also, it will be interesting to see if D&D include the Davos side of the Blackwater episode, since that’s part of what made it so compelling for many readers. Davos on TV has become a fan favorite from what I’ve read online. It would be easy to concentrate on the KL side of the story, but I hope the other side is seen as well. I’m sure it’s already completed, and if the riot is any indication (though small in scale it was well done), the battle will be epic. There will be pain.
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Mimsy,
You’re fine. It’s me…. On the one hand, I envy people who love the show, on the other hand I treasure the source of opinions in me that find fault in the show. And I love arguing. But my reaction was probably because the last thing I want to be is a regretful victim of my opinions/choices.
I was also afraid this conversation was heading toward an existential discourse on the choices we make about the show. In a way I made my choice; I will not like the show because I will not change my expectations. I dance on the line–do I regret my choice? But at the same time I enjoy my choice of wanting to discuss exactly those things in the show that I feel are lacking. Even if it frustrates those people who made the choice to love the show…. and it goes on and on doesn’t it? Putting in these terms, it is my fault the show is not good. Or for you it is your fault the show is good.
smackless headlarftQuote Reply
More Rice Cooks,
There are a lot of factors.
1. ACOK is just plain inferior to AGOT or ASOS, so this was always going to be a down season (IMO at least).
2.The show is on a network that targets middle age, middle class subscribers, yet GoT is probably better marketed to the 18-29 yr old crowd. People who love GoT would be more likely to love Spartacus than Treme. As much as we can talk about the great acting and plotting, GoT is still a show with boob counts and sexposition and action scenes and dragons, snow zombies, and giant wolves. Outside of True Blood, HBO’s other programming is aimed at a different audience.
3. HBO marketed the first season heavily on the Starks, and Ned in particular. The rest of the spotlight was on Dany. Now Ned is gone and Dany’s storyline is crawling, and the show just doesn’t have a routing interest for a lot of non book readers.
4. The show is impossible to pick up midseason.
5. By really playing up the sex in the show (yes it is in the books, but many people are comfortable reading about sex without actually seeing it, and they ramped it up even more than the original material) they have limited who can really watch this. You aren’t going to watch this with your parents or someone you don’t know very well (unless of course you have really hip parents). You also aren’t going to be so free recommending it to someone whose background you don’t really know, because they just might not be into the nudity.
All these things limit the audience the show can draw from.
MattL86Quote Reply
Can you explain why aCoK is inferior? I think it was my favorite because: the first book was in many ways too simple. The second was more complex. The third (and final book, let’s be honest) was too complicated.
smackless headlarftQuote Reply
No one said the sky was falling, in fact I actually said I think HBO is probably pleased. But like it or not, the show isn’t reaching what we had hoped for. It has leveled off as a well watched show, but not as a show everyone watches. Go read old WIC posts about ratings before the season began and see what this site was predicting or hoping for. We haven’t had that success we all wanted to see.
A lot of us had hoped this was fantasy’s next big break into mainstream (after LOTR and HP) but it is staying farely confined to a niche audience. That dissapoints me, no matter what people say.
MattL86Quote Reply
If ACoK is your favourite book, I’m guessing you are a Tyrion fan or perhaps an Arya fan. While they have great storylines, many big players (Jon Snow, Dany, Bran, Rob and Cat, Jaime) all have better material in other books. For me at least.
MattL86Quote Reply
MattL86,
I can’t speak for “everyone here,” but I certainly never thought Game of Thrones would surpass True Blood in ratings, this year or ever (at least not in the US – I suspect GoT already has a larger audience overall).
a) True Blood runs in the mid-summer when there is far less interesting stuff on TV
b) True Blood’s plot, while certainly complex, is far less so than GoT. It’s easier to pick up on even if you haven’t seen every episode.
c) True Blood’s cast is much smaller
d) True Blood takes place in a time and place that is much more familiar to contemporary American viewers
Finally – TB is the second-most viewed show in HBO’s history. GoT is the third. Figure in the international audience & they’re probably reversed. GoT is also much better reviewed & much more of an awards magnet than TB – both of which are very important to HBO’s subscription-based business model.
All the ratings for GoT mean is that there is a loyal core of roughly 5 million Americans HBO subscribers who are so devoted to the show that they watch it on the first night it plays, every week – even though they could watch it any other time they choose. There’s another 6 million or so who watch it at a more leisurely pace. There are millions more who watch it through HBO’s overseas affiliates, and a few more million who download it illegally.
With all that, the idea that the show is underperforming somehow just doesn’t hold water.
Maxwell JamesQuote Reply
It’s worth bearing in mind that GOT is a hugely complicated epic series halfway through its second season. While word of mouth got new viewers during the first season when people felt they could still catch up, I think it’s unlikely that anything that happens in these episodes will result in a major boost in viewership mid-season this year – I think we’re far enough through that the people currently hearing about GOT will now wait until the end of the season before catching up. [May also be worth noting that the weird DVD timing HBO do means that many people will only have been watching the first season on DVD while the second season has been airing, so will be, as it were, a season behind - hopefully some of these people will buy the second season DVDs as soon as possible and catch up in time for Season 3.]
I think that holding onto most of the viewership throughout the season is a pretty good result, given that many other seasons tend to drop viewers (and then maybe get some back for the finale). It implies, to me, that its fans are satisfied by the product, will encourage others to watch, and will renew their subscriptions for next year.
It doesn’t mean it’s hit the ceiling. It won’t mean that unless the numbers don’t jump for next year’s premiere.
[They'd better, because the joint effect of continued character deaths (one may be shocking, but having lots will be just disheartening for many viewers) and less exciting plot will probably mean the show goes through a fallow patch after Season 3, or Season 4. Hopefully that'll reverse for the last few seasons, though.]
WastrelQuote Reply
The ratings are excellent, period. In its history, HBO has had ONE show that was a massive hit- the Sopranos. They would love another show like that, but realistically need a range of programs to sustain an adequate subscriber base. GoT is a key aspect of their programming and will be renewed indefinitely at the current ratings level.
Improved ratings for GoT would be nice for cushion purposes, but are unrealistic mid-season given the nature of the show. Any kind of significant gains would have to happen at the start of Season 3.
JAQuote Reply
Surprise.
foxtrot uniformQuote Reply
In australia last weeks episode reached 4.1 million viewers, I wish hbo would consider the international audience when it comes to how popular a show is
Christmas is comingQuote Reply
What makes you think they don’t? Whether there is an HBO Australia or whether they are licensing it, I’m sure it enters the HBO calculus.
AlanQuote Reply
Christmas is coming,
they do. no worries there.
Michael TschuertzQuote Reply
Some comments on your points:
1) In the early ratings, I don’t think this is a factor. Quality of story is a factor, but I think the biggest thing here is there’s no Ned to pull everything together. It’s a more fragmented story and it could hurt a bit, I suppose.
2) Well, Eastbound and Down. And Girls. I wouldn’t say the programming is targeted more at 30+ (or that GOT is necessarily particularly targeted at younger folks) , but the economics are real. You make more money as you get older, so that $15/month is just more likely to be spent.
3) While I don’t think it has much to do with marketing, this aligns with my #1. It’s a fragmented story and people are finding their way. But I don’t think people are quitting over this.
4) I think this is the biggest one. It’s hard to jump in — I don’t even try to get friends to jump in now. I just give them my blu-rays or tell them to go on on demand.
5) I personally think the ratings are higher with the nudity than without. I don’t doubt the things you say happen, but there’s more people like my friend who pushed “Californication” at me with the line, “It’s funny, Duchovny’s character is cool and if nothing else you get a hot naked chick each week.” Nudity and sex (and violence) sells.
AlanQuote Reply
It’s certainly a vicious cycle when we’re on opposite sides of the fence. I watch the show.. well.. book aside.. mainly because I love fantasy and it’s rare when they are done well.. usually it ends up being a cheesecake of a movie, but I love to watch them, imperfections and all. You’re talking to someone who can watch Timeline, DragonHeart and Lord help me.. In the Name of the King: A Dungeon Siege Tale.
So.. to me GOT is all that and a bag of chips and dip.
It’s not really that I’m rah rah.. GRRM can do no wrong and D&D are my heroes. It’s that I love the genre and when it’s done well.. I practically explode.. regardless of what the book details are compared to the show.
MimsyQuote Reply
euhm, isn’t that fucking HUGE for Australia?! According to Wikipedia that ties the most watched program EVER in Australia.
KnurkQuote Reply
D&D actually got a 15% budget increase ($9-10 million) so they could do the Blackwater episode justice. GRRM’s agreed to write the screenplay, which means he’s somewhere between a kid in a candy store and a fox in a trap right now.
The showrunners have been fairly frugal with complex 3D CGI sequences so far: a few direwolves here, a couple of dragons there, the shadow baby scenes. Sure, Pyke was a detailed computer model, but that’s not nearly as challenging as animals and non-corporeal beings. For much of the rest, they relied on 2D artwork, sets and location scouting.
We’ve also seen very few choreographed battle scenes: Brienne in Renly’s tent, Qhorin’s team attacking the wildlings, the bread riot in King’s Landing. For the most part, we’ve only been show the aftermath of battle: Talisa amputating a leg, Theon waking up Bran to tell him he’s seized Winterfell, Dany and Xaro confronted with a bunch of corpses.
It looks to me like they’ve decided stick with plan A and concentrate limited resources on a single big battle scene. I don’t believe will be offered an hour of nothing but fighting, but I’m hoping for at least 20 minutes of it, bookended by some frantic last-minute preparations and the grisly aftermath of what may prove to be a Phyrric victory.
HBO execs are not fanboys, they’re businessmen. They’re expecting that one episode to generate a lot of extra press, awards and revenue for the show as well as the channel. I expect a short but intense marketing campaign. Viewer loyalty has been fantastic so far, so the relevant metric for success in the short term will be the ratio of episode 20 to episode 19 ratings. If the hoped-for bump is still there by the first episode or two of season 3, spending big on Blackwater will have been a good investment.
Nagga’s KinQuote Reply
<autostannis> Phyrric -> pyrrhic </autostannis>
Nagga’s KinQuote Reply
Jaime seems to have the best scenes in episode 7 so hopefully it will be seen by 4 million at least “”There’s a scene that we shot that was probably my most favorite scene ever, in any job,” Nikolaj dished. “So Episode 7 is my favorite episode.”
Ritas SmithQuote Reply
If, according to you, the fluctuations in initial airing ratings have been a purely stochastic phenomenon, then it should be even harder to predict correctly. Surely, predicting a random walk is much more difficult and impressive than predicting statistically significant changes. I’m curious, what is your probability and statistics background? You seem to have an undue fixation on your interpretation of what might count as statistical significance in this case.
The increase this season between Episodes 4 and 5 of 250,000 total viewers was larger than two of the increases in Season 1 that you mentioned. Using percentage increase is meaningless here, as the raw number is more meaningful in terms of statistics.
I don’t predict ratings based on the perceived “quality” of an episode. Quality often has little to do with ratings. Otherwise, the Kardashians wouldn’t have a reality show. The jump in ratings after Episode 2 of Season 1 was purely due to the talk and buzz created by Lady’s death. The jump in ratings after Episode 4 of Season 1 was due to Tyrion’s capture by Catelyn. The drop in ratings after Episode 6 was due to HBO releasing Episode 7 a week early. Likewise, the increase after Episode 4 of this season was due to Melisandre’s birth.
Carey TranQuote Reply
That’s why it’s a bonus that George wrote it. I thought “The Pointy End” was absolutely brilliant last season, and it consisted of a series of massacres, basically. Still, there was so much amazing character stuff that it was probably my favorite episode of the season.
And I figure there will be lots of time to show Cersei and Sansa and Shae and all the other people we love (and love to hate) inside King’s Landing during the siege. Plus I suppose they could add in some bonus stuff from the Tyrell side – I bet Loras will be the one to wear Renly’s armor on tv etc.
GonfaloniereQuote Reply
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I’ll try again to garner a bit of support for my theory that the lack of a charismatic male star is limiting the series from reaching anything close to TB numbers. I think the show has found its entire audience—it certainly hasn’t lacked for internet and other media buzz, critical acclaim, and strong marketing, and it is up against average time slot competition. A great plot, a superb cast, and a tightly conceived universe are bumping up against a pitch-black premise, a male-dominated genre, and a lack of a marquee male to lure non-genre-fan women to their big screens. Even casual viewers see that this show’s sex/nudity takes place in a violent, brutal, and unpredictable universe at odds with the definition of female-friendly erotic fantasy. A non-epic-fantasy female fan needs a good love story to hold her interest; GOT doesn’t have it and isn’t going to get it.
TB is horror with a smirk; GOT is the real deal. There’s your 1.5-million discrepancy in the ratings.
DH87Quote Reply
I don’t understand why some of you are disappointed with the ratings. Those are pretty big numbers for HBO. It’s their third biggest drama ever, I think that’s quite an accomplishment. But the initial numbers don’t matter that much anyways. We’ll have to wait until the end of the season so we can see what the episodes avareged with all of the repeates.
And everyone seems to forget that the show is popular worldwide and that the first week of dvd sales made up for half of the budget.
Being a TV addict, I’ve been studying ratings of shows for 2 years now, and believe me, HBO is happy with these numbers. I know some of you expected 5 or 6 million for the initial viewing, but that’s just delusional given the complexity of the series. It can grow in numbers between seasons but not much between episodes. And it did grow that way. This season has more viewers than the last one (I think it’s 11 million vs 9 million) so we can all relax.
New WolfQuote Reply
Itty bitty rant here. Personally, I’m female and while I’m a fantasy fan, I like GoT specifically because 99% of it is not romanticized, much like real life. That 1% is heartwarming enough when it happens. I know a lot of folks say “look, if I wanted sad real life shit, I’d go live real life,” but reading about people trying to get through their suffering instead of dressing it up like a Brontë sister novel actually makes me feel way better.
It’s why I’m starting to get disillusioned with the genre in general — every time I crack open a book with an interesting premise these days, it seems like it’s written in that generic, overly nostalgic, cutesy YA prose. (Does anyone know what I mean?) Even the pain and the hurt in most books (and shows) these days are painted in a melodramatic and trivial way.
But that’s just me and not even remotely the majority, or even a sizable minority. I guess my point is that, yeah, I don’t think there are a lot of chicks like me watching the show and we’re probably gonna need more shirtless men in order to grab some of the TB kind-of crowd. Being queer, I also know a lot of my fellow queers are a bit tentative about the show because it’s very heteronormative — obviously, it’s based on medieval Europe, after all — and I tried getting them to watch with the whole Renly/Loras thing, but, well. There’s really no fixing that now unless the writers shoehorn in a pairing, and I’m not sure I want that. I’m fine with how het it is, because the writing goes above and beyond that, realyl.
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
…er, really.
Seven take you, proxy-without-an-edit-button.
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
Yeah, they did change Xaro’s character and decided against showing why the Spice King wasn’t interested in Dany’s beauty. Varys might be gay or an asexual eunuch – if only to protect himself against Littlefinger’s machinations.
Celibacy is also the official line for Septons/Septas, maesters and the Night’s Watch. In the real world, there tend to be a few individuals that succomb to their baser instincts, which may well be “against nature” as that used to be known.
We did get that scene with Dany and Doreah last season, but Dany stopped before things got hot and heavy. With Drogo gone, a girl has needs, no? I think they could have easily done a scene with Dany and her handmaidens all sleeping together in that bed in Qarth. Doreah wakes up and looks lovingly at Dany’s face, only to meet Irri’s competitive stare. One of the dragons peeks out of his cage and begins squawking, waking up tbe others who add to the cacophony and of course, Dany. The ladies get up but the camera angle switches back to the dragon who appears to be straining to see them but can’t. Eventually, Dany appears wrapped in a blanket, saying: “Good morning, my babies! You must be hungry!” Doreah, already dressed, brings a plate of meat and starts feeding them (no firebreathing).
This would have been instead of the scene in which one of the dragons was out of his cage, being fed on the windowsill.
The change would have increased Dany’s anger and sorrow over Irri’s death and Doreah’s absence when she found out her dragons had been taken.
Nagga’s KinQuote Reply
DH87,
seeing as my sisters tumblr is all about Skargard you are right I say.
It may also why they do the whole Robb/Jeyne thing all romance like…
As others have said, it is fare more likely given the story that we will see big jumps of viewers mostly between season, because people need to catch up first.
so keeping steady is not what we have hoped, but what about total numbers?
will season 2 sell around the world as good as season 1?
how many awards will season 2 get?
and the most important question:
season 3 episode 1 number aspecially totals.
save for a big jump up or down for ratings especially totals, I think we dont really need to talk about this until week 2 of season 3.
Michael TschuertzQuote Reply
That’s not my argument, and if you had read my post, you’d know that. Got’s week to week initial airing numbers are very stable. It’s not an undue fixation on statistical significance — it’s what’s the information calls for.
You claimed there would be a drop, apparently. Then the initial airing falls the equivalent of two Nielsen households … and you claim some sort of victory as if your prediction skills are some sort of amazing.
Except that kind of shift is so miniscule that anyone with a statistics background of any kind would refer to it as no change.
I don’t doubt there are some thing that a show can do to drive short terms gains for next episode, etc. Your argument makes logical sense. But the show didn’t drop much, if really at all. And you sure as heck shouldn’t be attributing that tiny drop to your view of the ending of episode 5.
Like I said, I hope you are right about episode 7 — which should lead well into 8 (since 7 is likely to have a nasty cliffhanger/ending), and 8 into 9 (I imagine they will heavily foreshadow the next episode), making the season ramp up as it goes on.
I do expect the ratings to rise. If nothing else, the data tells us with tv shows there’s usually a push towards the end of the season with growing shows, especially the finale.
AlanQuote Reply
Yeah, I don’t think you know probability and statistics as well as you think you do.
Carey TranQuote Reply
Carey Tran,
The sentence most important her is:
…Then the initial airing falls the equivalent of two Nielsen households …
As i have no background in statistics that sounds like nothing to me.
Michael TschuertzQuote Reply