That dark shadow passing over you? Don’t look up! The Daily Raven has a special delivery!
You can skip the middle man by checking out Simone’s You Tube page here!
Fire And Blood: I personally loved the Jaime scene, but Simone is on a rampage! Someone must stop her before she destroys Tokyo! (We agree on 98.7% of everything else.)
(And who besides me could ever be expected to be right 100% of the time? There are no women like me, there is only m—uh, wait.)
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65 Comments
Wow, nice nighttime attire :)
SuperdeluxeQuote Reply
Tanktop !!!
GanQuote Reply
That’s a very weird way of pronouncing Ygritte. First time I’ve heard that. I prefer it the way they pronounce it in the show (and the way I pronounced it when I read it as well) but I guess everyone has their own preferences.
The Red ViperQuote Reply
I understood that the reason Jaime was quizzing Alton so much when we first see them is that he was getting to the truth of their kinship. I think that Jaime found out that Alton was not a true Lannister only posing as such. He set upon his plan to escape when Alton was first thrown into the cage. He felt free to proceed with the knowledge of no kinship. You can’t fault Jaime his escape. It’s what any true soldier would do at times of war. Besides, at this point he is beside himself to get at Cersei’s knickers again.
Lord Of LiteQuote Reply
In an interview Nikolaj the actor playing Jaime actually really liked the scene because of the surprise.
To me the scene just didn’t fit.
Jamie and Alton could of easily faked a fight which would have been more believable and a better scene.
ghostQuote Reply
Good video as usual!
But as someone else commented – It is pronounced “EEE-Grit”, not “WHY-Grit” in the show. :)
LarsQuote Reply
Was wondering how long it would take for someone to comment on the attire. First two posts… you guys didn’t dissapoint.
SteveQuote Reply
There have been many sexless exposition scenes, this wasn’t the first.
LexQuote Reply
I’m willing to forgive Simone complaining about Jaime’s scene because she’s absolutely gorgeous.
the scene was great! and I like Jaime a lot, and don’t think this will stand in the way os his “redemption”.
Thiago SlashQuote Reply
Totally off-topic, but EW just released a pic of Bronn from Ep 19, “Blackwater.”
It is epically badass (altho I wish it was bigger):
http://i48.tinypic.com/11kwn44.jpg
the goatQuote Reply
Lord Of Lite,
i agree, if you look up kinslaying, it say kinslaying is the killing of a close relative (Immediate family). Killing Alton, is not considered kinslaying in westeros. In the universe of Westeros, Jaime could have easily had to face someone as closely related as Alton on a battlefield
Eugene ToussaintQuote Reply
She is worried about Jamie Lannister being able to redeem himself after what he did to his cousin? He pushed a 10-year old out a window, trying to kill him, and leaving him a cripple. You can’t redeem yourself after that.
No, I haven’t red the books, but even if the books try to redeem him, I’d have trouble buying it.
MarcoQuote Reply
Jaime doesn’t actually have a redemption arc in the Christian, more common story-telling use of the term. He simply misplaced his honor somewhere along the way and goes through a process of deciding whether he wants it back. If that’s somehow enough to bring about forgiveness in the audience for past deeds which he may or may not repent, I won’t be surprised, because everyone seems to want to be on the side of the golden boy. With that in mind I have no concerns that they will be able to portray the drama and internal conflict of his decision making on the show.
There were logic holes in the scene with Jaime and Alton, but not what I’d call out of character problems. Jaime is a bad, bad man. I thought it was totally in keeping with who he is and what he prioritizes.
ETA: I’ve been getting really bored with the discussion of exposition or sexposition or what have you on the show. It always seems to miss the mark completely. The show has loads of exposition, that’s part of what has always made it so talky. Nudity has scandalized some people but it’s still the rare exception to include it alongside exposition. It’s just comparatively more prevalent on GoT. At this point I think people should make a moral decision to stop watching if it bothers them.
SkipjackQuote Reply
Marco,
its going to make for all the better show for you than, b/c Jaime Lannister is the man lol
Eugene ToussaintQuote Reply
I don’t understand the objections to kinslaying. Jaime isn’t beholden to gods or men. “There are no men like me. Only me.” He also doesn’t share his father’s fetish about the family name. He’s already done child defenestration, incest, Kingslaying. Why the arbitrary line at kinslaying?
Tyrion SedaiQuote Reply
Yeah, the Jaime scene seemed kind of clumsy… but didn’t bother me at all. I don’t buy the whole kinslayer argument. Alton is a distant relative, and Jaime doesn’t care about kin-taboos anyways (i.e. banging his sister), so why would he care about killing a distant cousin? It was not out of character at all, IMO.
LexQuote Reply
You know I just wanted to mention that I found an awesome GoTs podcast that Simone is part of every week. She and 3 others breakdown each episode that aired that week and have some fun and interesting convos.
Their discussion is strongly opinionated and insightful and Simone adds a lot.
Many of you probably already know about this. It is also a YouTube channel but the podcast is fun to listen to while driving to and from work. I wish I knew about it sooner so I could listen to it during the workweek between episodes. The funny thing is, is that they argue and discus amongst each other just like we do in the threads, though they are much more civil and friendly to each other.
It’s called “Afterbuzz TV Network” just search ‘Game of Thrones’ and click the podcast section. It’s the 6th one down.
They have a very entertaining platform and Simone really shines through. Wish someone here would have mentioned it to me sooner. That us why I am letting y’all know now, in case you weren’t aware…
ArthurQuote Reply
Steve,
and what is wrong with that?
Simone know full well what effect that would have.
What does it take away from her or the webisode if somebody like her in this tanktop?
p.s.: I know that is total off topic but sadly we are in a time where the roles of women and the relationship between men & woman are in the air.
What Simone chooses to wear or not to wear is hers, but more generally speaking what you wear always has an effect on other people.
Michael TschuertzQuote Reply
I agree with you with the Jaime issue ;)
I liked this Daily Raven
Pau SorianoQuote Reply
Thanks man, I love listening to wow podcasts while I’m gaming, gonna check this out…(my favourite one is A Cast of Kings if u wanna check it out)
Pau SorianoQuote Reply
I have to agree with some of the commenters- this was not the first sexless exposition scene, and the Jaime scene is fine with me.
I think labeling Jaime’s story arc as a “redemption” story is not quite right. Just my opinion, I know many see it that way, but I think his changes are more about him even considering a new way of life, which is not precisely the same thing. He’s still an asshole in the later books. He’s just not strictly allied to Cersei and her wishes anymore, and he does want to be a real Kingsguard commander. I don’t think he’ll ever be really “good.” He’s just free to make his own choices now.
And I don’t think it’s appropriate to get gross about Simone’s clothing. I’m not saying it’s against the rules, I’m just saying it’s a little off-putting when commenters go that route. She shouldn’t have to wear a turtleneck.
Ours is the FuryQuote Reply
Her musing about Jaime’s overall arc is dangerously close to spoiler territory…
Richard WeetabixQuote Reply
Pau Soriano,
Yeah I was bored this week and DLed a bunch of them (like 4). I listened to “The Nights Watch”, which was good. And last night on the way home I listened to
‘Afterbuzz TV Network, A Game of Thrones’.
Simone was on there talking and I was like “holyshit It’s Simone!”
It’s a great podcast and I was smiling the whole ride home.
Their talks sound so much like WiC threads with the discussions and debates.
ArthurQuote Reply
Michael Tschuertz,
Nothing to get uppity about. I just saw the screenshot and knew some dude was going to comment on it… and they did. I don’t know why anything else needs to be inferred much less a debate in gender politics.
SteveQuote Reply
Why is the spoiling Jaime’s redemption? Just why?
daprosinikQuote Reply
In the Dunk & Eggs stories, the Green-Apple Fossaways and Red-Apple Fossaways hate each other and fight each other for the past 80-100 years, but no one calls them kinslayers.
spacechampionQuote Reply
Simone is hotttt
BalerionQuote Reply
It hadn’t occurred to me that Jaime’s family quiz of Alton convinced him that Alton wasn’t really a Lannister. I just figured that Jaime was making sure that the relation was sufficiently distant that it wouldn’t bother him to go ahead and kill Alton.
MikeQuote Reply
Nice recap. This one is beginning to think Simone is really auditioning for “Extra” or something with that camisole top. Very nice.
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
love the recaps. Buttttt……. is joan snow related to joan rivers?
PerkinsQuote Reply
My main problem with the Jaime thing isn’t Jaime’s actions, per se. At this stage, he is still very much the guy who shoved a ten year old out a window; selfish and reckless, willing to do just about anything if it serves his purposes.
Its more that, if Jaime had murdered his own blood, the label of Kinslayer would haunt him for the rest of his days. Westeros would no more forget that he murdered his cousin than that he murdered the king he was supposed to protect. If the TV show were the books, Jaime would be hearing abuse for the murder of Alton Lannister from this moment until the end of his days, just as he has to always hear about Aerys. Kinslaying is amongst the vilest and most unforgivable crimes Book Westeros has.
Yet no one cares here, apparently. Catelyn abuses him as ‘Kingslayer’ and seemingly forgets that he just killed his own cousin the night before. This suggests that the TV show has dispensed with the concept of kinslaying as a uniquely terrible evil in Westerosi eyes, which will weaken the impact of some events to come…and for what? Was this one scene worth it? Did it have to be his own cousin he killed?
Ivan GroznyQuote Reply
Ivan Grozny,
As discussed, Alton was a Lannisport Lannister……which means he was a distant distant cousin to the Casterly Rock Lannisters. Westeros wouldn’t consider it kinslaying. Most of the major houses have distant relatives… Tyrells and Martells trace back to a common ancestor.
Rib246Quote Reply
Before book three, all of us hated Jaime and we thought he was irredeemable.
Nothing has changed here. They had to have him do something that nobody thinks he can come back from….And they did.
In the books it’s killin the king and tossing Bran.
In the show it’s sharing a moment with a family member ending their lives for nobody but himself.
The DarkStarQuote Reply
Rib246,
Yes, I noticed the argument above, but I disagree. His last name is Lannister, from Lannisport or no. There are family ties between them and that seems to be enough, judging from the books.
Book Three spoiler:
Robb Stark has the label of ‘kinslayer’ hurled at him by Rickard Karstark before he beheads him. The distant blood ties between their families, even though they are from different places and don’t even share the same last name, mean that Robb is clearly taking a drastic and controversial measure by sentencing him to death. Robb goes through with it, but only because he seems to have no other options, and it obviously deeply upsets him.
If that could be seen as kinslaying, I see no reason why a Lannister murdering another Lannister of the same family name, his own cousin by blood, and for the sake of a momentary distraction of all things, would be regarded as anything else.
Ivan GroznyQuote Reply
I agree with Simone about the lack of action this season. I understand D&D invested a lot of money and choreography to give us the ‘Blackwater’ episode soon to come but it would have been really nice to see Jaime hack and slash a dozen Northmen before he got subdued and reshackled. I was really looking forward to that.
I did really like the scene though. It was eerie and creepy. They made Jaime appear like a caged animal that would do anything to regain its freedom. I disagree with Simone about this scene pushing Jaime to far over the edge of becoming redeemable. I think it will make his redemption all the more sweeter.
Jaime is the “Dark Hero”, the “Riddick” type character from ‘Pitch Black’, the super powerful badass warrior that is a selfish dishonorable asshole that through the course of events (mainly by having Brienne open his eyes to the power that honor has to keeping meaning and worth to your life) becomes one of the most interesting and mixed characters in the books
I really liked how D&D already started having Jaime call Brienne names.
“Where did you find this beast?”
I was waiting for her to say
“My name is Brienne.”
I hope we get one little taste of that before season 3…
I love the Tywin/Arya scenes. I think this kind of exposition is far more enjoyable. I don’t mind D&D having dialog between 2 main characters that never happened in the books to give the viewer some backstory. It is a far better, more meaningful and creative way then to bring us to a Brothel/Ros scene. I think D&D are finally realizing this.
D&D are now using the talented actors of major characters to tell the backstory rather then the breasts of a whore. I am really happy about this evolution.
Only asking for 2 more things.
1). More action please?
2). Please stop making Dany act like her brother…
ArthurQuote Reply
True!!
elseQuote Reply
The Jon Snow storyline is awesome. Like Simone, I am starting to really enjoy the changes from the books because it makes me not know what is going to happen.
This makes the TV series exciting in multiple ways for me now. Not only to see favorite parts and scenes from the books brought to life but to also have to wait and see what the hell is going to happen. The Dany storyline is so off that I feel like a noob non-book reader because I am in the same unknowing boat as them.
Back to Jon Snow… Has anyone noticed that Jon Snow is kind of like the guy version of Sansa? Instead of dreaming of a false world where you get married to a handsome prince and live happily ever after, Jon seems to think the world is black and white and there are only good guys with honor and bad guys with no honor. I think, like Sansa has her eyes opened to her foolishness while in Kings Landing, Jon has his experiences beyond the wall open his eyes to realize things aren’t black and white. People are people and will do whatever it takes to keep themselves and their loved ones alive.
I think events beyond the wall that Jon has with Ygritte and the Wildlings has such a profound effect on Jon that he does a complete 360 on his views of the world. He actually realizes even more so then most of the Nights Watch that that Wildlings are just people, like himself, that are trying to survive. Jon even lets then join the Nights Watch which ends up pissing off his own “honorable” people that they stab him to death (Julius Caesar style)
Anyway, I feel Jon is the boy version of Sansa.
Ygritte does more then take his virginity. She turns him into a man that sees things much differently. A man that is able to have empathy and realize things aren’t black and white. Thank god Jon met her or he would of remained an ignorant little boy who thinks there are good guys and bad guys.
So many people, like Jon before the Ygritte experience fail to look beyond labels. For instance, this saying comes to mind when thinking of the Nights Watch vs the Wildlings…
“One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.”
Ygritte opens Jon’s eyes to their side of the story… And this becomes Jon’s awakening.
ArthurQuote Reply
sim1?
SIMONE IS A COMPUTER!!1
cabboQuote Reply
Damn, she’s hot.
KhyleQuote Reply
Ivan Grozny,
But Alton ISNT his cousin – its just someone with the same last name. Alton wasnt part of THE family – he stated that very clearly – he was so far out in left field he couldnt even see the happy couple. His father was upset he might embarass HIS family in front of THE family. Alton’s mom isnt Tywins sister – shes some broad that Jamie cant even remember. Alton didnt even know there was ‘only one fat Lannister’
Thats distant relative – not close kin. In the books, when Jamie and Catelyn are talking and he asks how his family is, she mentions Sir Stevron died, and he said – he only cares about HIS family – Cersei, Tywin and Tyrion. To Jamie, thats his close family.
And I dont think a fake fight would have been enough – this is the KINGSLAYER.. and he killed a bunch of guys when he was taken. They would have suspected anything fake.
freoduwebbeQuote Reply
freoduwebbe,
Alton is his cousin to the extent that Tyrion and Cersei both referred to Alton as ‘cousin’. He isn’t close family, obviously, and I suspect Book Jaime would have roughly the same reaction to Alton getting killed that he did to Stevron or Cleos Frey getting killed…which is to say, utter indifference.
That said, there’s a rather grand difference between not caring if someone lives or dies and mercilessly beating them to the death for the sake of a momentary distraction. Jaime would not have killed Cleos or Stevron himself, regardless of the distance of their relations; they were blood, and even if Jaime doesn’t care about that, Westerosi society certainly does. If being called the Kingslayer irritates him, I can’t imagine he would much enjoy being remembered as a kinslayer either…and with far, far less justice behind the slaying.
If attitudes in the HBO series are at all the same, Alton’s murder will haunt Jaime’s every step from now to the end of the series. But it won’t, I’m guessing; I’ll be surprised if the subject even comes up again.
Would it really have been so hard to have not given Alton the Lannister name, not given him any blood ties to Jaime, and just had him as the son of some Lannister bannerman from the start? That would have averted all confusion on this point, kept his act sufficiently ruthless and shocking, kept some later plot developments from losing their impact and all-around have just been a much wiser choice. I’m certain the audience is not dull enough that every character allied with King Joffrey must be named ‘Lannister,’
As it was, a scene I otherwise thought was highly enjoyable left an awful taste in my mouth purely because of their ill-considered choice of victim.
Ivan GroznyQuote Reply
Regarding Alton Lannister…if his mother is a Lannister, who is his father? Why does he even have the last name of Lannister? Can a son choose which “family” he wants to be associated with and choose the name that he wants?
TyrionFan57Quote Reply
They were probably both Lannisters.
Tywins wife for example was his cousin.
MormegilQuote Reply
Re: Jaime killing his distant cousin.
Obviously this is a bone of contention for many people, because we can argue back and forth until we are blue and the face but nothing will change the fact the each of us has or own interpretation of the story and it’s character. If the show somehow transgresses this interpretation it will either be welcomed (excitement is delivered when the familiar story has become unpredictable), tolerated (costume design, slight changes to the story,character etc) or flat out reviled (Jaime and Alton).
Personally I see the killing of Alton as another HBOish sudden display of violence for violence sake and to me after throwing a child threw a window and other things, I do not see how this interferes with Jaime overall arc. I just don’t. D & D definitely underestimated the aftermath. If they are clever and I think they are they will somehow acknowledge this in the story. Besides the Lannisters could always deny that Jaime killed Alton as it’s Robb’s forces word versus their own.
But it’s clear that Simone and co feel differently and that is their right. Maybe they will come around and adjust to this, maybe they won’t. It’s their choice really. But we shouldn’t hold it against them.
Perhaps it was smart of D & D to begin the changes as early as possible in the series. Kind of a trick on the audience if you think about it, but the earlier the better as the still adherent book-readers who want to watch the show will have prepared themselves for more changes by next season. And as tolerating as we may be, we all have our breaking points. Who knows maybe I will have a similar reaction as Simone to an upcoming scene.
For now, I think they are doing more than a good job. But I will say this, there is no frakking way they could churn out a Wire quality series out of Game of Thrones. It’s going to be a mixed bag of good adaptation, bad adaptation, clever nuances and dialogue, forced scenes, action scenes for the sake of action scenes, writer brainstorms and story writing that may come off as condescending to more intellectually minded viewers. If you want it to keep up the quality of production and to keep it on for several seasons the show has to cater to multiple demographics. This may seem a lazy concept but it’s a truth. A perfectly adapted version of A Song of Ice and Fire wouldn’t have lasted long. Or so I feel anyway. Maybe it would have, but television studios don’t take risks like that.
That said, I think we have a great series and a great adaptation here, just not a masterpiece.
Joshua TaylorQuote Reply
Steve,
yeah, sorry about that one.
Personal I dont care what simone is wearing as I really like anybodies thoughts on my fav TV-show.
I just wanted to say that just cause somebody thinks another person is hot, that doesnt imply that that is all somebody cares about the other person.
@Jaimes kinslaying.
My thought was always that everbody will read POV characters or other people in the book very different. That is just the way D&D read Jaime.
I have heard in the audiocommentary they explain many changes/ things they did & showed.
So looking forward to that.
Michael TschuertzQuote Reply
The fact that Jon can be seen as Sansa’s parallel makes complete sense. This seems to be becoming his journey this season (in the tv series at least). I mentioned in a recap post that you actually notice Jon (via Kit Harington’s subtle acting) starting to consider Ygritte’s seemingly idealistic suggestions of ‘freedom’ and living in the wild by your own set of rules.
To some extent he still challenges it, and that’s his conflict. That and his new sexual conflict. He’s confronted with uncomfortable questions about what his vows of celibacy actually mean and what function it really serves.
magsQuote Reply
mags,
Yeah… I think Jon and Sansa’s sheltered life in Winterfell has made them take a fictional view of the outside reality of the world.
Jon’s experience outside the wall, as Sansa’s experience in Kings Landing, really open his eyes to all the grey in the world. I think him meeting Ygritte is a blessing in the long run because it exposes him to the fact that things are not simply black and white.
I am really enjoying this season and even the devergences from the book are enjoyable. D&D are doing a great job bringing the books (characters) to life.
The characters are so deep that it makes it so much fun arguing on here about them and I feel D&D are keeping this character depth even on the TV adaptation, which most be extremely hard to do.
ArthurQuote Reply
I guess that’s why the majority of fans of the show love the Starks. The whole saga, though not completely limited to, is about the Stark children being ripped form their loving family in the secluded northern lands of Winterfell and being thrown head first into the cruel unforgiving world of Westeros.
They encounter the unloving world of Westeros through extreme experiences that force them to grow and mature fast, otherwise face death. They learn things aren’t black and white and they must do anything to survive while at the same time noticing others are in the same predicament as themselves.
It’s just an awesome story of people in a fantasy world with a little bit of magic sprinkled in to make things even more fascinating.
I’m just happy to be able to experience this.
ArthurQuote Reply
Furthermore, I think this fact alone (That Jon Snow is still a naive little boy that thinks things are black and white/good and bad) is the reason why Ygritte’s catch phrase;
“You know nothing Jon Snow”
Resonates so well with the reader. Because subconsciously we all are aware that at this point in time, Jon Snow actually does “know nothing”…
I think this is true for Jon up until the point that Ygritte is dieing from her crossbow bolt wound and Jon turns her over and Ygritte looks into his eyes and smiles while saying with her dieing breath, “You know nothing Jon Snow.”
I feel after that point in the books Jon is instantly hit with maturity. His actions and deeds from that point on, aren’t that of a naive child that knows nothing,
Ygritte not only takes his virginity, she takes his childhood views of the world and makes him a man-grown in both the physical and psychological aspects.
Can’t wait to watch this unfold on TV…
ArthurQuote Reply
Aw, put on some clothes, Simone. Winter is coming! Well, not really. But it’s awful chilly here at night.
Arya-Tywin sexposition would be waaaaaaaaaaaay too medieval, even for this show.
I was perfectly fine with Jaime’s kinslaying at first, then some people pointed out possible conflicts with his book characterization and gave me pause. After some consideration, I wouldn’t put it past Jaime to kill a lesser Lannister if it meant his freedom, but I don’t get why he had to kill Alton. It’s as if Torrhen Karstark’s attention was magically focused on Alton once he was a corpse. That makes it so it’s less Jaime’s ruse at work and more like an Act of the Writers.
Why would someone want to compare GoT to The Wire in terms of quality? The Wire is practically deified in the television critical canon, so you’re just inviting disappointment with the comparison when all most people care to consider is their personal enjoyment of the show. If you really want to go that route, note that The Wire also has the advantage of not being burdened with depicting an entirely fictional world that has been individually interpreted by untold thousands of readers with their imaginations over the course of reading thousands of pages in the novel format, which possesses narrative techniques that are difficult or impossible to translate into a television show, especially one with a total running time restricted by the logistics of production and a relatively small budget considering the extravagant amounts of labor it takes to achieve a convincing sense of worldbuilding in its genre. (If only there was a law that allowed GoT to commandeer the undeserved budgets of all the trash movie studios put out each year. Isn’t it sad that the first season could be made several times over with the money it took to make Battleship?)
In other words, there are many reasons why comparing it to The Wire is a futile exercise. The Wire was written for television and set in a world well within ours. Game of Thrones is an adaptation that caters to newcomers and veterans of the series alike with an entirely different set of goals and obstacles in its production. If you’re going to compare them, be specific of the parameters and premise of the comparison. It’s entirely uninformative to just flat-out say how likely you think it is that The Wire will always be better. I’m not even ruling out The Wire as the stronger show. It’s an incredible show. The Seven know I take GoT with all its warts and wonders, but it’s wonderful in ways The Wire can never be, and vice versa. GoT ain’t no Breaking Bad either, and Breaking Bad sure as Shae ain’t no GoT.
WompWompQuote Reply
P.S.: To be fair, shows like Breaking Bad and The Wire achieve a narrative complexity that rivals novels in their native medium. The key word is native and medium. Those two shows were born and bred for the small screen since conception. GoT is adapted from novels which were expressly written to be books. Despite GRRM’s screenwriting experience, he didn’t write the books as shows. It’s arguably much more difficult, perhaps virtually impossible, to adapt books to screen and achieve the same tightness of storytelling and production that shows like Breaking Bad and The Wire have because of the monumental difficulties in adapting the material. It’s a balancing act Bad and Wire don’t have to contend with. They don’t have to deal with an established canon and the people who already love it, whose preconceptions are more than likely to undercut the native impact of the show itself without deferring to their recollections and enjoyment of the books.
Blessed be the non-readers who enjoy Game of Thrones as a television series. I really thrive on their enthusiasm and their raw fandom. Of course I recommend they read the books and bemoan their inevitable knowledge of the series’ biggest twists and turns before reading them, but there seem to be ways only a newcomer can enjoy the HBO series and ways only a seasoned reader can enjoy it too. In light of this, I highly recommend book readers to watch the show with non-reader friends who love it. Social empathy works wonders, even if you think you know what’s going to happen! :D
WompWompQuote Reply
WompWomp,
Awesome double post. Thank you for putting so eloquently what I could not.
I too am enjoying the series through my non-reader friends and it is has been a wonderful experience. The look on their faces and the exaltations of “holy shit”, “man this is gripping stuff, no one is safe, “so many badass characters”, and my personal favorite, “Tywin Lannister is the Arnold Rothstein of this series”.
I will never forget the look on my friend’s face during Melisandre’s birthing scene. ;-)
The recent divergences from the book allow me to enjoy the series as television show even more. Instead of approaching every Sunday night with a checklist as to what I want to see and what we should see, I am finding that anything can change at any time.
And I love it.
Another thing to consider that while these divergences may piss off the Purists, it is a clever way to make the Unsullied not worry about spoilers. Big events may still go down as they do in the books but the unpredictable nature of the diverging narrative may slightly alter the journey to that moment and still pull off the feat as true to books as possible.
Joshua TaylorQuote Reply
Joshua Taylor,
I’m so grateful to have non-reader fans among my friends. They were part of the difference between being alright with the show and loving it. I’m really glad you’ve found the same vicarious thrill in your friends! It doesn’t make anyone right or wrong. It simply makes us bigger fans of the show, and that’s the real thrill of it all, innit? :]
I feel this season has more “holy shit” moments to share with our friends than last season, at least overall. There’s little comparing with Ned’s fall and Dany’s rise, but this year we have the birth of Shadow-Stannis, Renly’s ordeal, and Theon being a bigger dick by the episode. I was a bit indifferent to Theon’s turn since I knew it was coming, but seeing friends in conniptions over it (to the point of muttering death wishes formerly reserved for Joffrey alone) was very satisfying. XD
Amen to that. I’ve considered my own puristic tendencies, and they really served no one, especially myself. They just detracted from my enjoyment of the show if I let them run free. I wondered why I was being so defensive of the books in the first place, and it boils down to some narrow perspective that insists my love for the books would be besmirched by an inferior adaptation. But that wasn’t the case. My love of the novels is already there, and if I was open to it, I had nothing to lose and only a newfound fandom (for the show) to gain. Have you ever finished a game or a book and wished you could engage it for the first time again? I believe the show and our friends who love it make that very possible for us.
I found the fall of the Thirteen (since Pree and Daxos aren’t formal members anymore, I consider it the end of that entire organization) to be one of my favorite overall changes, even if Dany’s storyline can be a bit wanting. I certainly wouldn’t want new viewers to face a direct adaptation of Dany’s Qartheen vacation, which worked well in the books but wouldn’t survive on-screen.
I also don’t know what I would do without those fantastic Arya-Tywin scenes. Who cares how they’re in the same room? I can’t resist the fierce chemistry and Tywin’s unexpected confidence in her character, which is both ironic and a tremendous credit to Arya the Nobody and Maisie the actor.
So much of the beauty of the books lie in Martin’s poetic passages, and that’s awful difficult to bring to TV, especially with such down-to-earth characters and no narrator to speak of. Even if that dimension is largely diminished in the show, it’s worth it just to get to visit Westeros in earnest. I hope more people will come to understand the books and the show have their own places and maximize their enjoyment of them all.
HA! You call them Unsullied? That’s hilarious. I couldn’t help chuckling at that as I wrote. Riffing off of that, I’d call particularly prickly purists the Burned Men (and Women).
WompWompQuote Reply
WompWomp,
Alas I cannot take credit for the ‘unsullied’. I believe that is some cheeky poster at TWOP who came up with that one. The best thing about it is the commenters in the Unspoiled board use the term as well, probably thinking of it in its literal terms. Wait till the actual Unsullied are introduced (aside from season 1, episode 1) and then they will realize it heh!
Burned Men is perfect for the Purists, that or the ‘First’ Men/Women.
One thing about this series is it has lead to many awkward conversations when meeting new people, Have you encountered this yet? Broaching the subjects of common interest during conversation gets prickly when you learn someone is a Purist. They get this look in their eyes when you talk about the television series as if they are recalling some childhood trauma.
Interesting aside, several members of the Book versus TV board at TWOP seem to be convinced that Bolton will not be at the Red Wedding. What? They say his character hasn’t been set up to betray Robb. Are they watching the show? D & D have dropped many nuanced hints towards Bolton’s badness already. Why have Bolton and Ramsay in the series at all if Karstark (according to them) is going to betray Robb? Weird.
Joshua TaylorQuote Reply
Joshua Taylor,
I think they’re deluding themselves on that point. After all, it’s Bolton who delivers the literally heartbreaking final blow, and his turn is even more significant than the spite of the Freys for its cold calculation and context given the Bolton’s historical rivalry with the Starks. I do hope they touch upon that troubled history though (the very idea of Boltons wearing Stark skins gives me the chills, the good AND the bad kind), and give us more pre-Red Wedding time with the Boltons to really build up their part in the fall of the Starks.
I love the subtler bits they toss in for Bolton. His line from “A Man Without Honor” was a particular favorite of mine:
Karstark: “Ser Alton’s pen is occupied, ya Grace. The prisoners from the Yellow Fork…”
Bolton, lightly chiming in: “Too many prisoners.”
WompWompQuote Reply
I think daily raven must changes the host with the more beautiful girl
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WompWomp,
Yeah Michael McElhatton’s Roose Bolton is great to watch thus far. Loved the scene when Talisa came into Robb’s tent and the wounded look Bolton displayed for being rebuffed by the ‘ foreign girl’.
And he pulls off the Northern furs quite well.
Joshua TaylorQuote Reply
Mormegil,
If Alton’s mother and father were both Lannisters then he would have been a fair haired blonde like dear King Jeffory. Alton was a child of questionable roots. That is what Jaime learned from his first conversations with him.
Lord Of LiteQuote Reply
Lord Of Lite,
Hey! Maybe Alton was another one of the products of King Robert’s sexual escapades. And Jaime knew it.
Lord Of LiteQuote Reply
Amen to Joshua Taylor and WompWomp. Just so.
I’m torn between continuing with book 3 and waiting untill next year after S3 airs. This woman finds it difficult, but she ought to focus on her Masters rather than daydream about GOT.. (:
And as far as purism goes, the Others take it. So, i wanted to see Jon and Halfhand sit around a fire alone in the wild. I guess I won’t. I’ll deal with it. Will we be shown that Jon is also ‘special’? Who knows. However, i suspect Ghost is going to show up when we least expect it…
magsQuote Reply
mags,
If the show was your first love, I suggest waiting for the next season. It’s hard to divorce the inner comparative critic once you’ve read the book before it’s adapted. I wonder if that’s true when you’ve seen the show before reading any of the books. My friend’s aunt picked up A Game of Thrones after watching the first season and came back with “the book is a LOT better.” I don’t endorse the books-r-better/show-iz-better stance, but be wary that your enjoyment of one affects the impact of the other, at least in the short term.
Also, A Storm of Swords is slated to covered two seasons of material. So you’d be effectively spoiling yourself for S3 and S4. Food for thought.
This man is all for more Shaggydog scenes. I can’t wait ’til they get to the part where he starts talking and leads them all in the “winter is coming” gangsta rap.
WompWompQuote Reply
I suppose Alton (Cleos) was made a more distant cousin than originally? [spoiler]considering in the books his mother is Genna Lannister, Tywin Lannister’s sister. In other words a first cousin, nothing distant at all.[/spoiler]
gswelcomeQuote Reply
there’s no edit button…
gswelcomeQuote Reply
gswelcome,
I imagine Jaime would remember a first cousin. Alton must have been among the lowest of the lesser lines of Lann given his account of his family’s placement at a feast.
WompWompQuote Reply
The Red Viper,
I want to start off by saying that I enjoy watching these every week, even though they always come out a bit late. The outfit was a nice bonus this week, but Simone, you NEED to start pronouncing the names of the characters correctly. There are commenters on here that say you do lots of great analysis on Game of Thrones for podcasts and such. I do not doubt your SoIaF knowledge, but it comes off the wrong way when you discuss these characters and pronounce all of their names incorrectly.
ctfsh811Quote Reply