Episode 20 – Valar Morghulis – New Viewer Recap
By Winter Is Coming on in Recap.

And that concludes season two of Game of Thrones. What did you think, newbies? Did this finale leave you with answers or just more questions? We Do Not Sow gives us his thoughts on the finale, and the second season, after the break.

Spoiler note: The discussion in this post is primarily for non-book readers (book fans can discuss the show here). We ask all the series veterans to refrain from posting spoilers in the comments here, veiled or otherwise. This show is best viewed without knowing all the surprises beforehand, so please be respectful of your fellow fans. Thank you!

We Do Not Sow: I am still speechless. That was awesome! As good as the battle of Blackwater was last week, the season two finale this week was amazing. I was so excited with every story line last night and I loved how they wrapped this season up. I need to go find Doc Brown and speed off in the Delorean so I don’t have to wait so long for season three to start.

So unlike most weeks I will just start in the beginning and work my way to the Walking Dead: George R.R. Martin style. Poor Tyrion, I love the progression of his character this season, stepping outside of his comfort zone and stepping into battle, becoming a leader — Varys said it right, the guy has nothing to show for it now except a big scar across his face. I did not realize last week that a Gold Cloak was the man who struck Tyrion too, how messed up is that!? Cersei, he almost single-handedly won you the battle and saved you and your family.

Margaery Tyrell takes Sansa’s place next to Joffery and it’s got me thinking a few things. First off, did anyone see The Tudors? She is basically playing the same character all over again. Second, is Margaery trying her own version of “making the 8″? Maybe not, she would have had to sleep with Renly. Lastly, personally I think Joffery traded up quite nicely but Sansa you should have gone with the Hound! Why on Westeros would you stay there when anyone is giving you an out?

In Winterfell, Theon’s speech was really good and even better was his men clubbing him and taking him back to the Iron Islands. I understand where Theon is coming from the last few episodes, I mean I don’t like it but I understand, but his execution was dreadful. Theon, I am speaking to you now, maybe you should have just raped and pillaged a few fishing villages first and got some street cred before rushing into Winterfell? I am just glad the little Stark guys got outta there okay and I’m happy someone made Hodor a wheelbarrow to push Bran around in. It will be really interesting to find out where Bran and Rickon go from here and I think it will be even tougher to watch Theon get belittled by his father and sister next season too. Maybe Maester Luwin was right, Theon should have just gone for the Wall. Ahhhh Luwin, you gave great counsel and shared your wisdom to the young men of Winterfell, let’s take a moment to remember you…

So does everyone agree that Arya is going to be the most fun and exciting character to follow? I loved Jaqen as soon as he showed up. When I saw him standing and waiting for Arya and Gendry, I almost stood up and clapped, but I was afraid I wouldn’t see him again. The Faceless man… what!? This guy is awesome, I really wanted Arya to say “Ok, lets go across the sea and teach me your ways.” Jaqen changing his face at the end was awesome. I just know he’s going to play a big role down the line in Arya’s story. Jaqen, you will be missed. Valar Morghulis!

For the past 8 or 9 weeks I have been ripping Jon Snow a new one for being stupid and dumb. Finally, we are getting somewhere, so all that wandering and not following directions has Jon going into the wildling’s camp and spying on them. Ok, I got it, maybe he can split the wildling’s camp apart, or maybe use the wildling’s to fight the undead? Whatever the outcome, I owe Jon Snow an apology. To be honest I was waiting for the wildling with the animal skull on his face to take it off and for it to be Benjen. I have a feeling we will see him again, but then again my feelings are usually wrong. Poor Sam, hiding behind a rock as an army of the frozen undead march right by him, somehow I think he might live if they just keep marching past him. Plus Sam has to stay alive we need a Sam + Gilly = Silly relationship. Oh yeah, relationships, Robb got married, Frey is gonna be pissed!

In Qarth, Daenerys takes on magic and wins. The little dragons were awesome, I am thinking season 3 finale we need to stick with the fire theme. I was shocked when I saw Doreah and Xaro together and even more shocked when there was nothing in the vault. Qarth was a neat place to see and visit but I felt like I had to watch those scenes a few times to make sure I didn’t miss anything.

This was a great episode, I am 100% GoT geeked up right now. I want to watch the finale again but maybe I’ll just start with season 1 and work my way back. This season was a blast! I can only hope that season 3 is the same. With Joffery, Robb, Stannis, Daenerys and who knows who else popping up next season, I am sure there will be more battles and more Game of Thrones goodness next spring.


225 Comments

  1. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    Wow, amazing. Will be watching that over a few times! Touched on all those a woman wanted to see, a woman is pleased.

  2. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    First reaction: EPIC….EPIC!!!!!!

    Second reaction: Maester Luwin :(

  3. John Juliano
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

    A good episode with some minor quips, like a dissappointing delivery on dracarys and lack of clarity as to the meaning of dany’s vision on the wall. I can already guess the design on the others will cause some bad reactions, because all the new elements seem to, but I liked them.

    Also, where is davos?

  4. Knackerednun
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    Wow! Bloody damn good!
    GoT has been my Sunday night “event”
    What the hell am I going to do now?!!!!
    Oh! I know! watch it again and again! and again

  5. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    John Juliano,

    I fear Davos might be dead, and that makes me really sad.

    If I follow correctly, Jon killed Quorin because he wanted the Wildlings to trust him so he could infiltrate them, right?

  6. bliss_street
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    What was up with the Stannis scene? Did he escape? Was he released? Was it a dream? They really could have explained what happened.

  7. John Juliano
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think he’s dead, for whatever reason. Just this feeling. I could be wrong, but I guess we’ll see. In a few months. *Cries*

  8. Jon Rivers
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    bliss_street,

    … he wasnt captured, why would he be released?

  9. SillyMammo
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    bliss_street,

    The scene in the last episode was Stannis’ men dragging him back to the row boats in retreat.

  10. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    John Juliano,

    I think Matthos is definetly dead. I had the same feeling as you after last week. The fact he wasn’t in this week’s episode makes me nervous though.

    And with Bronn losing his position in the city watch, I hope we haven’t seen the last of him!

  11. bliss_street
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 10:49 pm | Permalink

    bliss_street,

    OK. I didn’t realize it was Stannis’ men who were dragging him off. I thought he had been captured. My mistake. Thanks for the explanation.

  12. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    Just rewatched a 2nd time. 2 things really stuck out.

    1. They have ended both seasons with Daenerys doing something completely badass. The first season was hatching the dragons. This one was getting them back and getting revenge on those who wronged her.

    2. Theon’s speech was pretty epic, even if it was ultimately for nothing haha

  13. Mark
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    Whst happened at winterfell? Iron island guys leave, ok I can live with ambiguity of dud they drag Theon offi or hand him over. But why was city burned w/no sign of those 500 men sent by Robb? Did they just leave?? W/o checking on the you get Stark sons?

    Otherwise, really great. Surprised Tyean doesn’t want his smartest son advising him in that snakes nest

  14. Ms Jaqen H'agar
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

    i can’t believe benjin is a white walker, rob married that girl, maester luwin is gone, winterfell is practically nothing and nobody killed that prick joffery, how dirty they did tyrion even though without him stannis would be king and all lannisters dead…what an episode i loved it. so many things so many questions and jaqen h’agar went from fine to ewwww but the former h’agar i will always love

  15. KristaBella
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    Maybe thus sounds stupid, but-can someone tell me what Stannis and Mellisandra were staring at in the fire, are we a sopposed to know, is it obvious or am I just to use my imagination?

  16. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 11:47 pm | Permalink

    Mark,

    I don’t think we really know. All we do know is that Theon wanted to have his 20 troops try to fight off the forces sent by Robb Stark, led by Roose Bolton’s bastard son. Apparently, Theon’s men either had a plan to escape or they were able to walk due to an order from Robb. My guess is they handed Theon over to Roose’s bastard son in order for their safe passage. I don’t think we know why Winterfell was burnt, or who burnt it.

    I really hope we get to see Roose’s son. I really think Roose is a fascinating character, as he just seems to be purely evil. That whole flaying business is crazy. I guess if they do that, you never know what they’re capable of.

  17. Yellow Dog
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 11:47 pm | Permalink

    Mark:

    Otherwise, really great. Surprised Tyean doesn’t want his smartest son advising him in that snakes nest

    That’s the problem with Lannisters: they all think they’re smarter than everybody else.

  18. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 3, 2012 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    KristaBella,

    Can’t know for sure. I imagine it was probably a vision of the future though where Stannis becomes king.

  19. Steven Swanson
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    Ms Jaqen H’agar: i can’t believe benjin is a white walker

    Where’d you get that idea?

  20. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    Meh, that’s all I have to say.

    totally meh.

  21. Ms Jaqen H'agar
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:23 am | Permalink

    Steven Swanson,

    i got it at the end, when the white walkers came and they panned up from the black white walker horse and the guy on top to me looked like a dead ass version of benjin because we never heard anything about him being alive since he left in season one and his horse was black and benjin had long hair about the same length of the white walker they shown. so yea thats my reasoning

  22. Marco
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:27 am | Permalink

    Ms Jaqen H’agar:
    Steven Swanson,

    i got it at the end, when the white walkers came and they panned up from the black white walker horse and the guy on top to me looked like a dead ass version of benjin because we never heard anything about him being alive since he left in season one and his horse was black and benjin had long hair about the same length of the white walker they shown.so yea thats my reasoning

    I thought about it maybe being Benjin, but Benjin’s horse came back; I don’t think he looked much like Benjin other than the long hair. Benjin would have died recently. That white walker looks like he has been dead a long time.

  23. Dwarfeffngrules
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:30 am | Permalink

    Deathtolannisters – “meh”? – dragons, white walkers and a depose dwarf and all we get is “meh”?
    death to lannisters,

  24. Matt
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:33 am | Permalink

    Was Danny looking into the future when she saw the Iron Throne? Sure seem that way, in my opinion. Robb’s wedding reminded me of Braveheart and I love the Ayra and Jaquen scene. Overall, I loved the finale, especially the ending. It raises the stakes even more.

  25. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:35 am | Permalink

    Robb’s move: stupid

    white walker zombie army: bad zombie flick

    Dany & Dragons: finally

    Sansa storyline: unsatisfying, not enough screen time.

    Jamie & Brienne: I like

    Tyrion: exactly as I predicted, he’s out of power. but not convincing as to why his father would have him out. so he could be the hand himself? He could have done that earlier. He’s still in war with Robb. not convincing, any of this.

    Stannis & Melisandre: not that compelling or convincing. what is he seeing?

    Arya: not enough screen time

    Jaquen: interesting!

    Catelyn: thought she was a prisoner

    Master Luwin: sad

    Mostly a big yawn. didn’t even leave me wanting more. which is a good thing, since it will be nearly a year.

  26. Ms Jaqen H'agar
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:38 am | Permalink

    Marco,

    that is true and i did think about his horse coming back as well but i dont think he was the only ranger that left in that episode so thats why i thought it could be him, but you do bring a good point about him dying recently and that the other dude did look dead for a longer time

  27. Mark
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:41 am | Permalink

    Matt,

    I think those visions were all traps, Qarth version of the Matrix. Dany dreams, dragons grow, etc

    Except she is The One!

  28. Milknut
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:43 am | Permalink

    I need to stop underestimating this show’s capacity to blow my mind. This was also the most moving episode they’ve done in many ways.

    I think it was even better than last week’s. That’s really the best thing I can say about it.

  29. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    Dwarfeffngrules,

    hi dwarf. love your name. yeah, that’s just how I felt. maybe it was just me, or my mood. i’ll watch it again in a few days and see if i feel different. but this totally didn’t do it for me. I didn’t buy a lot of it and the rest was just too many pieces, still unraveling, in fact unraveling further from their centers, no real resolution or satisfaction on any front except maybe a little on Dany’s front. Maybe there was no way to follow last week’s performance, but with this show you never know, something huge and major can happen just when you don’t expect it, so I figured something more would happen. As viewers we take a lot of bruising for the characters we love in the epic twists. if nothing feels like it’s ever going to resolve i think i just lose a little interest. there was no major revelation in this episode for me. most of it we knew was going to happen from last week’s set up: knew Tyrion would be out of power, knew Jon would kill Qhoran, figured Dany would go to the house of the undying and get her dragons back, figured Robb was going to do something stupid with the girl, knew Sansa would be replaced by Margarey, etc etc. I liked seeing Jaquen’s two faces, that was the only cool surprise for me. The zombies didn’t impress me, don’t seem that real, now we’re really getting into the world of the fantastical i guess.

  30. blt831
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:01 am | Permalink

    death to lannisters,

    If you remember, Tywin had already been named the Hand of the King and sent Tyrion to act in his stead. Tyrion was “acting Hand”

    Does Tywin strike you as the type to let anyone, even his children, be in control when he can be himself?

    Go back and watch the scences of Jaime and Tyrion with Tywin from last season. Tywin does not hold his children in high regard. Battle or no, accomplishments or not, did you really think that Tyrion would still be the Hand once Tywin got to King’s Landing?

  31. Matt
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:02 am | Permalink

    Mark,
    Perhaps I’m reading too much into it, but I saw Drogo and her child as a vision of what she’s lost. That’s her past and that makes the Throne her future. It was also snowing and I don’t believe Dany’s ever seen snow before. We know winter is coming. That was pounded into our heads last season. Now I’m just thinking as a type. Yeah, I’m probably reading way too much into it. It’s fun to speculate, though.

  32. Wigwam
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    Just to clarify for new viewers:

    White Walker = maker of “zombies,” like the frosty mounted guy and the non-human monster in Episode 1.

    Wight = zombie lackeys with blue eyes, clearly dead humans.

    It was a matter of definition, not analysis or speculation, so I chimed in. I’ll leave you guys alone to gush. :)

  33. The Others
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:08 am | Permalink

    Ms Jaqen H’agar,

    That wasn’t Benjen Stark. It’s entirely possible Ben Stark has become an undead wight, but the guy on the horse was a White Walker. There’s a difference between a wight and a White Walker. The White Walkers are the creepy snow demon guys (the guys on the horses in this episode, and the guy that killed the two men of the Night’s Watch in the 1st episode of the 1st season). The wights ( everyone on foot at the end of this episode and the guy that Jon killed in the 1st season) are the undead zombies that are actually corpses raised by the White Walkers.

  34. gotgotgot
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:23 am | Permalink

    WOW Loved this episode a LOT.

    Tyrion!! DAMNIT!!!! Lost all his powers and gets no credit for the battle. Total BS.
    His cuts look really bad. very nicely done.

    Jeoffrey marrying margaery is a great idea. Too bad stupid Sansa didnt leave with the HOUND. SOOOO STUPID!! SANSA!!!!

    Lord varys!! Will he help ROS?? Man I hope so!! Poor little Ros :-((

    Breinne Kicking some major butt!! Nice little scene.

    Nice little Stannis scene. except we didnt see how he escaped, And it the onion guy still alive?? I am sure the onion son died because of that wildefire explosion was closer to him.

    Theon. LOL. I wonder if he gets handed over ? And his men left alone to leave on their own. Or do they all just run for it but had to knock out theon cuz he wanted to stay and die.

    Shae scene with Tyrion was really nice and emotional. Well done.

    Robb and that girl got married????? WTF???? that was a little FAST.. wtf? Oh well. Duno wtf they will do but she might have some shady little plans of her own.

    House of undying was REALLY REALLY rushed and short. I mean it lasted less then 5 minutes?? Really disappointed. Although…

    FIRE FIRE FIRE DRAGONS!!! Totally freaking awesome!!!! Serious badass!!!

    OH and count drago!!!! Awesome scene. REALLY cool to see him!!! totally was not expecting to see him.

    Arya and the facechanger guy.. dunno whats up with that.. she wants to learn his secret ways of assasin killing I guess.. But doesnt follow him.. So I guess they wil meet up again with that little coin her gave her..

    Jon snow.. still I do not like this idiot. OK he can fight.. but he is really clueless and dumb look on his face all the time. Dunno wtf is gonna happen with him. But I dont really seem to be caring either. Thet Eyegret girl is kinda cool though.

    Locking that big black fat dude in his own safe chamber is nice. I guess the city wasnt rich at all? Was kind of hard to tell wtf was going on. Was it all the Purple lips dude showing all the fake riches?? I didnt quite get that part.

    White walker on horse!! TOTALLY AWESOME looking!!! Very cool.!!

    I will have to say I loved this season And its pretty much a tie with season 1.
    Both I give a 10/10 Only negatives are waiting a week from episode to episode and some episodes being 50 minutes. instead of 60+ Like this one was. THANK YOU HBO for 10 extra minutes in this finale.

    Cannot wait for Season 3. SOOOO GREAT.

  35. ItsAllJustAGame
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:27 am | Permalink

    Just gotta say Theons speech was extremely badass and awesome!! Great acting!! And no Davos?? WTF

  36. gotgotgot
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:28 am | Permalink

    Theon Rules!:
    First reaction: EPIC….EPIC!!!!!!

    Second reaction: Maester Luwin :(

    Oh yeah I forgot to mention him too. :-((((( that sucks. He didnt even have to die. :-( I liked that dude.

  37. Jsnow
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:28 am | Permalink

    Every time I see a shitty episode, I look up the director, and sure enough it’s Alan Taylor. Every time I see a great episode, it’s Petrarca, Nutter, or Marshall. They need to bring those three back and keep that soporific retard Taylor off the set.

  38. Steven Swanson
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:30 am | Permalink

    Jsnow:
    Every time I see a shitty episode, I look up the director, and sure enough it’s Alan Taylor. Every time I see a great episode, it’s Petrarca, Nutter, or Marshall. They need to bring those three back and keep that soporific retard Taylor off the set.

    He’s leaving the show to direct the next Thor movie. So now you know not to go see it.

  39. AerynsSun
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:59 am | Permalink

    I don’t know about Davos. I suspect he’s still alive. But I’m sure Matthos is dead. Melisandre told him he’d die in fire and he got the brunt of the Wildfyre blast, so, yeah.

  40. Mark
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 2:20 am | Permalink

    @Jsnow

    Reader here, but I just wanted to chime in on the Alan Taylor comments… I’ve been pretty disappointed with him this season, too. I loved the way “Baelor” was handled, but he hasn’t come close to that caliber of work this year.

    One other nitpick… Why is it that all humanoid CG creatures have to produce the most generic sounds possible? Was the “mummy” scream really necessary for both the shadowbaby and the white walkers?

    This episode hit all the right plot points, but seemed to lack a little bit of heart, overall. Loved Tyrion and Shae, though. I think Luwin’s death fell flat for me because Dinklage got all my tears.

  41. drewn
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 2:30 am | Permalink

    Whew. Watched it twice in one night!

    Real good stuff. Wish there was a little more of certain characters (Arya, Robb, Davos, Stannis) especially after focusing on King’s Landing last episode, but some good resolution for Tyrion, Dany, and Jon at least.

    Tyrion – I suppose I (and he) should have known his dad would screw him over in the end, but had hope after all that fatherly talk to Arya that maybe some of that love extended to Tyrion too… or at least a modicum of respect. We do know Tyrion has fans and friends in King’s Landing, especially Shae and Varys (or so he says). That scene with Tyrion trying to scare Shae away, only to have her stand by him regardless was one of the most moving in the episode!

    … And we go right into Robb getting married! Which I liked because I enjoyed their love story a great deal. I know it’s going to have horrible repercussions, but the romantic in me liked seeing Robb following his heart!

    Dany – Recovers her dragons and punishes those that wronged her, showing the strong hand she needs to survive in this world. Glad to see nothing happened to Jorah in the process! Her scenes were some of the coolest to see, and agree with those who see the snowing throne room scene as a vision of the future… And was that snow… or ash…?

    Jon – Gains the trust of the Wildlings and arrives at his destination… Almost thought we were going to get a reveal of Mance at then end.. That would have been a neat surprise..!

    Theon’s scenes were great – and reminded me that I could muster some sympathy for the guy…
    … And I was sooo hoping he’d join the Night’s Watch for some interesting redemption/falling back down the hole again… but we’ll see where he goes. Alfie Allen’s reactions to the horn blower were hilarious!!!

    Maester Luwyn’s death was probably the saddest one in the whole show for me… Ned’s was shocking, but this one made me tear up… such a sweet, sweet man… watching out for Bran and Rickon the way he did, preparing them for the future while still nurturing… even looking out for Theon after all he had done… Props to Donald Sumpter for his acting work on the character.

    Although we didn’t get much Arya, the one scene we had with Jaquen was awesome…! And to find out that he wanted to take him to Bravos – where Syrio hails from – was pretty awesome…!

    And that ending… Does not bode well for Westeros… But I don’t think that White Walker is Benjen.. that wouldn’t makes sense from what we know about the White Walkers… it would make more sense for Benjen to become a Wight, no…?!

    EDIT:
    Oh yeah, and it was nice to see Sansa smile for once! Poor thing. I’ve enjoyed her arc this season, especially after hating her last season. But I wouldn’t trust Littlefinger an inch… the only way he gives Sansa back is if Catelyn promises to marry him. The Hound isn’t much better, but he seems to care for his “Little Bird” and would have been the better of the two to travel with. I do wonder if Sersi’s quick approval of the new wife for her son was a way to protect Sansa.. She does seem to have some kind of sympathy for her.

    Oh, and the actor who plays Varys makes me so happy to see him whenever he appears on screen… and Varys is so good at keeping his cards close to his chest…

    Oh, and I do wish they showed us some hint of what Stannis saw… but good range of emotion from the actor in that scene… “I killed my brother…”

  42. loco73
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 3:15 am | Permalink

    Well, I did not know how they would be able to surpass last week’s episode…but they did, simple as that! The whole episode was a wonderfully fitting conclusion to Season Two, and just right in tandem with the chaotic nature of things in Westeros…and the rest of the ASOIF world.

    The closing scene of Season One was majestic and powerful, but Season Two’s closing was just astounding. Those images will haunt me for a while, the season ender was just so chilling (no pun intended). It really put things into perspective and really made the Stark motto “Winter Is Coming” ring true. While everybody else in the Seven Kingdoms is preocupied with their little games, their own petiness and selfishness, there are threats coming from sources that could care less about the game of thrones being played, threats that will be not small skirmishes, but existential ones… I really think that at some point everybody’s future will come to literally rest in the hands of both Jon Snow and Daenerys!

    The last time I was so impressed was when I heard and saw the first words and images in the prologue of “The Fellowshiop Of The Rings”. That bit has stayed with me all these years and still gives me chills, well that is exactly what I felt seing Sam’s face and the slow reveal of the White Walker and the closing shot…wow!

    Well done, a fantastic Season Two finished with Season Three to look forward to…

    PS Damn now I’ll have to cope with some serious GoT withdrawal, I’ll have to deal with the in-between season’s blues with the knowledge that a few months from now “The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey” will be released!

  43. spacechampion
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 3:49 am | Permalink

    Wight is the European name for undead corpses; zombie is the African name for the same thing. In the show and books the undead are called wights.

    The non-human White Walkers are not undead, as far as I know. They are the puppetmasters of the Wights.

  44. FIM
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 4:15 am | Permalink

    Ms Jaqen H’agar,

    Whitewalkers are a wholly different race (or species even) from wights i.e. the zombie-like creatures following the guy on the horse.

  45. loco73
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 4:45 am | Permalink

    Yeah the wights are just reanimated corpses of wildlings and other warriors (like dissapeared brothers of the Night’s Watch) which the White Walkers use to bolster their numbers.

    If anynone can remember back to the first season when Old Nan (Bran’s caretaker) tells Bran the story of the White Walkers (The Others) and the Long Night and how they had done the same, using wights in their war against the rest of humanity. Now they are doing it all again and it looks as if another Long Night is about to unfold, unless someone stops them…

    Now I guess we know why Mance Rayder was gathering the Wildlings and forming an army, he never intended to march on The Wall or attack the south, he was preparing to fight the White Walkers…

  46. Javi Marcos
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 5:48 am | Permalink

    Spoilers in the thread, please delete it!!

    And ban the user Robb sth who is providing the spoilers!

  47. loco73
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 6:00 am | Permalink

    Well there you go folks the assholes are coming home to roost! I guess it was too much to hope that this site would remain a kind of refuge where both fans of the show and the books could discuss, debate, teach and learn about the series and the novels…

    Einstein was right about many things, among which is the fact that human stupidity trully is infinite…

  48. loco73
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    Poor Tyrion, his family truly is made up of cruel bastards! He saves their asses, literally, pretty much exceeds most of what his father had requested from him, he even has a hand in Jamie’s regained freedom (remember he is the one who sent Littlefinger to try to manipulate Cat Stark…and it’s clear that it worked) and now they shoved him aside like a dirty rag…plus he has a nasty scar as a “pleasant” reminder of his misery…poor guy he can’t seem to win any love or affection from his own family…and its not for lack of trying!

    But he has Shaye, and she’s worth more than all the Lannisters put together…

  49. Nic
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    loco73,

    His stupidity is only doubled by the fact that he is spewing only partially correct information. Inane trolls.

  50. Daniel
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    Great episode as usual.

    Loved pretty much everything. This was Dany’s best episode the whole season.

    Only thing I didn’t like was the Varys/Ros scene. Doesn’t he already have spies all around that report to him, why would he need Ros and why does he even care about her? She’s a whore and unimportant.

    Also wish they would have left out some storylines this episode. Stannis and his fate could easily have been left out until next season, and as much as I loved the Brienne and Jaime scene, the last shot of them in the rowboat in the previous episode would have been a good way to end their story this season. I just wished there would have been more flow in between the storylines, instead of just showing one scene of this and one scene of that. The same goes for Robb and Catelyn, we already know this relationship with this girl would not appeal to Lord Frey, we have already been made aware of this in another episode. I liked the wedding though, it was nice little touching scene.

    But as all is said and done, a really emotional and amazing episode.

  51. Mike
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    death to lannisters:
    Robb’s move:stupid

    white walker zombie army:bad zombie flick

    Dany & Dragons:finally

    Sansa storyline:unsatisfying, not enough screen time.

    Jamie & Brienne:I like

    Tyrion: exactly as I predicted, he’s out of power.but not convincing as to why his father would have him out.so he could be the hand himself?He could have done that earlier.He’s still in war with Robb.not convincing, any of this.

    Stannis & Melisandre:not that compelling or convincing.what is he seeing?

    Arya:not enough screen time

    Jaquen:interesting!

    Catelyn: thought she was a prisoner

    Master Luwin:sad

    Mostly a big yawn.didn’t even leave me wanting more.which is a good thing, since it will be nearly a year.

    There’s always one. You must be so much fun to hang out with.

    Also, some people seem to be confusing the White Walkers with the wights. Wights are the living dead raised up by the White Walkers, which appear to be in control of them as well during their march. At this point, I think it’s safe to say that they are two completely different creatures and that wights cannot simply “become” a White Walker.

  52. Not a reader
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    There are people posting spoilers here. This post is for people who haven’t read the books yet. Thanks a lot for ruining the story.

  53. Hassan Madkour
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    Ms Jaqen H’agar,

    Just to clear things, white walkers are different than wights. Wights are dead people reanimated by white walkers. But white walkers are something different we don’t know much about yet.

  54. mags
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    that’s just sweet. I’m into the first part of book 3 and that stuff i did not want to know. Obviously Mr. Spoil It All hated season 2 so now he has to go ruin it for everyone else.

    On behalf of all book readers I apologize for this idiot.

    It’s spelled ‘Ygritte’, GotGotGot. If you’re going to diss Jon Snow, do it proper.

  55. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    And here I was thinking I could come to the NEW VIEWER RECAP and discuss spoiler free. Pardon my language but F*CK YOU sir. I am glad I did not read any more of your posts after the first which only spoiled Davos for me.

  56. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    Things I liked:

    – Tyrion getting completely sidelined. He didn’t deserve it at all, of course, but this is the Game of Thrones. You don’t get medals for almost dying when those survive wanted you dead. He loves the Game more than he loves Shae, which means he’s already plotting his inevitable revenge.

    – Tywin’s horse crapping all over the Red Keep. Joffrey reciting his own titles and bestowing the title of Hand of the King on Tywin on his horse, knowing full well the role of King has (at least for now) been de facto reduced to pomp and pageantry. The Tyrell’s making their dynastic move, complete with the requisite several minutes of nauseating sanctimonious hypocrisy all around.

    – Sansa still pretending to be the shy, frightened, innocent little girl for Littlefinger. If Joffrey and Cersei couldn’t break her spirit, what on earth makes him think he can? Btw, Sophie Williams is rather good at this acting lark, isn’t she?

    – Maester Luwin’s conversation with Theon, giving the boy one final chance to plead his case before deciding to seal his fate. His speech the next day was spirited, but he was no Tyrion. His men, led by Dagmar, decided that turkeys don’t vote for Christmas. However, Dagmar did spear Theon rather than take him prisoner. That isn’t what Robb and Roose Bolton had in mind.

    – Arya telling Jaqen she needed to reunite with her family (even Sansa ;^) so she couldn’t go to Braavos with him. At this point, Arya is still unaware of the status of her relatives and that of Winterfell. That coin is going to come in rather handy sooner rather than later.

    – Dany’s visions in the HotU. I took them to mean she’ll never sit on the Iron Throne because her dragons will burn everything around it to the ground. She will leave their fire behind, as she will no longer need it to ward off the winter. Indeed, her true destiny is in the Night Lands beyond the arctic circle, where she will be reunited with the love of her life and the son she had promised him. From now on, King’s Landing is no longer is no longer Dany’s destination, it is just the final stepping stone. Well, either that or Pyat Pree was just royally messing with her (and our) head(s).

    – Meanwhile: dracerys! Dany no longer needs to stomp and shout to get her way, which is a relief. Also, nice to see steak isn’t all the adorable little critters know how to throw on the barbie. The flames were much larger than before, but not yet hot enough to melt stone. Let’s just hope they don’t get seasick and burn down Dany’s wooden ship by accident!

    – Dany taking revenge on Xaro and that backstabbing little minx Doreah by locking them inside the charlatan’s empty vault. Time to get herself some sails and head west.

    Things I didn’t like as much:

    – No scene showing the sack of Winterfell or at least, Bran &co. in their hidey-hole while it was going on. You don’t sleep when the building above you is on fire. I’d have preferred for Maester Luwin to give his final instructions to Osha during the night and then have one of the Ironborn kill him quickly for trying to save Theon from his fate. The scene at the weirwood was way too schmaltzy for my liking, it had the wrong vibe for GoT.

    – Qhorin picking a fight with Jon and goading him into killing his commanding officer. It seemed illogical that Rattleshirt would let two of his prisoners get their hands on swords, for all he knew it when the fight broke out, it was just a ploy to attempt an escape that could have cost a number of wildling lives. Instead, I’d have preferred to see Rattleshirt demand of Jon that he behead Qhorin.

    – The White Walker on horseback. First rule of horror movies: don’t show the monster’s face! It can never be as scary on screen as in our own imagination. I did wonder, though, why he didn’t have one of his wights seize or kill Sam. The last shot was once again way too kitschy to my mind, with the wights assembling and the skies opening up to reveal the Fist of First Men off in the distance. Also, the leading WW’s battle shriek instantly reminded me of Dany’s puny little dragons.

    The earlier scene with Sam, Dolorous Edd and Grenn collecting dung for the fires suggested to me that they were at the foot of the Fist. I’d have preferred to see the wights begin their ascent to the top of the Fist of First Men right there and then, in eerie silence, slowly receding from Sam’s view into the blizzard, while he was still too scared to do anything but cower up against that obsidian boulder.

  57. superkick
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    death to lannisters has very obviously read the books. Hes going to deny this but as a book reader its fairly obvious by the content of his posts… new viewers should ignore anything he says, hes trolling all of you for whatever reason.

  58. marcos bardagi
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    I have a question: could not understand why Winterfell was not defended by the “500 men” that were back to retake the city from Theon. Theon’s only 20 men after beating him apparently easily left the city as if nobody was outside…I think it was explicity mentioned that an army of 500 men was sent from the Starks to retake the city. Or am I wrong? would appreciate an quick answer!

  59. Joffrey is Awesome
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    marcos bardagi: I have a question: could not understand why Winterfell was not defended by the “500 men” that were back to retake the city from Theon. Theon’s only 20 men after beating him apparently easily left the city as if nobody was outside…I think it was explicity mentioned that an army of 500 men was sent from the Starks to retake the city. Or am I wrong? would appreciate an quick answer!

    ember a few episodes back when Robb said to Roose Bolton that if the Ironborn surrender, they can all go home free except Theon? Well the Ironborn took Robb up on that offer and betrayed Theon. As to why Winterfell was destroyed.. I think it’s intended to be a mystery.

  60. Default King
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    It’s upsetting to me that this thread is so poorly moderated. Every week book readers come in here and drop coy little hints or, at worst like this week, outright spoil things. Every week those comments stay up for far too long, ruining things for a lot of people.

  61. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    marcos bardagi,

    Yeah, me either. Because there’s no way Theon’s men burnt it. And I wouldn’t think Robb’s forces would have.

    I have noticed that Roose Bolton kind’ve always looks at Robb like he hates him. Either because he thinks he’s too young or not ruthless enough, I don’t know. Perhaps he gave his bastard the orders to turn on Robb? Because as much as I’m intrigued by his character with the little screentime he has recieved, he seems as sketchy as Talisa.

  62. Jaison Biagini
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    marcos bardagi,

    you couldn’t read between the lines? they knocked out theon instead of fighting and hooded him. he was to be traded for freedom. this isn’t how it happened in the book but pretty easy to figure out. glad they left the burning a mystery for next season.

  63. Blaat
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    marcos bardagi,

    I suggest you speculate about what happened, if you want to know, you have to read the books.

  64. Default King
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    Jaison Biagini,

    You are clearly thinking of the other thread, the one for book readers. The following is from right at the top of THIS page. Please scroll up and read it:

    “Spoiler note: The discussion in this post is primarily for non-book readers … We ask all the series veterans to refrain from posting spoilers in the comments here, veiled or otherwise. This show is best viewed without knowing all the surprises beforehand, so please be respectful of your fellow fans. Thank you!”

  65. Winter Is Coming
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    Default King:
    It’s upsetting to me that this thread is so poorly moderated. Every week book readers come in here and drop coy little hints or, at worst like this week, outright spoil things. Every week those comments stay up for far too long, ruining things for a lot of people.

    Hey, we have to get at least a little sleep! Sorry none of us were around when the jerks decided to ruin some of the surprises. In the past we never really had any problems, people were always pretty respectful of the rules. But the past few weeks, and this week especially, things have been bad. Next season I may see if I can get someone who can stay up all night to moderate these threads.

  66. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    Jaison Biagini:
    Marco,

    i’m pretty sure the one the horse isn’t a white walker. he is an “other” [...]

    In the TV show, the ones raising the dead are called White Walkers. This was established at the beginning in season 1 episode 1, when Ned beheaded the deserter from the NW. I’ve read that someone on the production team was concerned that the “Others”, which I gather is what they are called in the books, might have been confused with the ones on “Lost”. The reviews and comments regarding Melisandre’s smoke monster proved them right.

  67. Default King
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    Sorry, I know you guys work hard and the site is great! I don’t mean to come across as inconsiderate. I’m a reader, so the spoilers don’t effect me, but I just feel terrible when I come in here to read some of the non-reader reactions and see so many people being jerks and spoiling things. An all night mod would be a great idea for next season though.

    Again, I (and I’m sure many many others) appreciate all the work you put in here.

  68. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    Also, to speculate more as to why Winterfell was burnt….By marrying Talisa, Robb broke an oath to Walder Frey. That could very well have pissed some people off.

  69. Joffrey is Awesome
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Jaison Biagini: marcos bardagi, you couldn’t read between the lines? they knocked out theon instead of fighting and hooded him. he was to be traded for freedom. this isn’t how it happened in the book but pretty easy to figure out. glad they left the burning a mystery for next season.

    GOD. GET OUT.

    Another stupid book reader dropping spoilers

  70. funlight
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    Some spoilers were quickly mixed with some fake ones, so don’t worry too much. Same thing happened to me once: I was waiting for a character to die who never did.

  71. King of the North
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Here is some pure speculation on my part as to the sacking of Winterfell. I’m not sure if we are allowed to speculate, but I’ve placed my speculation in spoiler tags just in case.

    I think the Starks have been betrayed. Whom was leading the force send to retake Winterfell? Roose Bolton’s bastard son. The Bolton’s have betrayed the Starks and destroyed their seat of power. To what ends, I don’t know, perhaps they wish to seize power in the North.

  72. kevin
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Drewn, they’re not going to spend money on an actor for a 10 second scene at the very end of the season. Don’t worry, Mance will be in season 3

  73. Kaeth
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Hearing about all the people being spoiled makes me sad. Not everyone can have the honor of a stark I suppose though.

  74. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    Default King:
    It’s upsetting to me that this thread is so poorly moderated. Every week book readers come in here and drop coy little hints or, at worst like this week, outright spoil things. Every week those comments stay up for far too long, ruining things for a lot of people.

    Winter Is Coming: Hey, we have to get at least a little sleep! Sorry none of us were around when the jerks decided to ruin some of the surprises. In the past we never really had any problems, people were always pretty respectful of the rules. But the past few weeks, and this week especially, things have been bad. Next season I may see if I can get someone who can stay up all night to moderate these threads.

    Default King, I agree that book spoilers are really annoying, especially on the new viewer threads. However, I think it’s quite unreasonable for any commenter to demand that one of the admins moderate this blog 24/7. It’s not like any of us are paying them to do so!

    Instead, I hope WiC.net will look into ways to upgrade its website so commenters can flag a problem. Beyond a configurable number N of flags coming from unique IP addresses, the body of the offending message would remain stored as an HTML comment but e.g. the text “comment flagged N times, awaiting moderation” would be shown instead. Ideally, there would also be a flag log on the server that moderators could use to quickly zero in on (supposedly) problematic comments. Perhaps something like that already already exists for WordPress, but I don’t know if that’s the technology platform you’re using.

    It might also be helpful to have a separate theme for newbie pages, i.e those where book spoilers are not allowed. I’m thinking of a different color for the About/Posts/Features toolbar plus perhaps a different background color for the comments thread portion of the page.

    Ideally, the “spoiler” button would be renamed “speculation” on newbie pages, with both text and text background colors changed to something clearly different from black. An additional boldface text above that button could read e.g. “No book references at all in this thread, please.”

    For belts and suspenders, it might also be worthwhile to add a Rules tab to the About/Posts/Features toolbar on all pages. It would set the appropriate expectations and include some helpful hints, e.g. how to tag a sequence of paragraphs as spoilers/speculation and how to prevent URLs from showing up as blue text on black background. Of course, modifying the script that parses the spoiler tags to also deal with the text color of embedded URLs would be preferable, but I don’t if that’s feasible.

  75. Winter Is Coming
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    Joffrey is Awesome: GOD. GET OUT.

    Another stupid book reader dropping spoilers

    Yes, he is a book reader but there are no spoilers in his post, so I’m letting it stand. He just explained what happened based on information gathered from watching the TV show. There was no extra “book reader” knowledge within his comment and no spoiling of future events.

  76. Default King
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    I wasn’t “demanding” anything, and I already apologized to Mr. Is Coming for coming across as inconsiderate. :)

  77. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    Jaison Biagini:
    marcos bardagi,

    you couldn’t read between the lines? they knocked out theon instead of fighting and hooded him. he was to be traded for freedom. this isn’t how it happened in the book but pretty easy to figure out. glad they left the burning a mystery for next season.

    Joffrey is Awesome: GOD. GET OUT.

    Another stupid book reader dropping spoilers

    I don’t think that was a fair response to this particular comment from Jaison Biagini.

    We saw the Ironborn hood Theon after Dagmar attacked him. It hadn’t registered with me, but that’s not something anyone would do to a corpse. In an earlier episode, we saw Robb making a deal with Roose Bolton that all Ironborn were free to go home – except for Theon. Robb wanted to avoid even more bloodshed and destruction inside the walls of his castle.

    Interpreting what was actually in the TV show does not constitute a spoiler, even if the person making the comment happens to have read the books. Knee-jerk reactions do not advance intelligent discourse.

  78. Joffrey is Awesome
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin: I don’t think that was a fair response to this particular comment from Jaison Biagini.We saw the Ironborn hood Theon after Dagmar attacked him. It hadn’t registered with me, but that’s not something anyone would do to a corpse. In an earlier episode, we saw Robb making a deal with Roose Bolton that all Ironborn were free to go home – except for Theon. Robb wanted to avoid even more bloodshed and destruction inside the walls of his castle.Interpreting what was actually in the TV show does not constitute a spoiler, even if the person making the comment happens to have read the books. Knee-jerk reactions do not advance intelligent discourse.

    I want no comparisons to what happens in the books vs in the show. It could cause spoilers. Even saying “thats not a spoiler”, could cause spoilers.

  79. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Joffrey is Awesome: I want no comparisons to what happens in the books vs in the show. It could cause spoilers. Even saying “thats not a spoiler”, couldcause spoilers.

    Fair enough, but in this particular case the only book reference was that the Winterfell plot unfolded differently than in the TV show. The vehemence of your reaction struck me as disproportionate.

  80. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    King of the North:
    Here is some pure speculation on my part as to the sacking of Winterfell. I’m not sure if we are allowed to speculate, but I’ve placed my speculation in spoiler tags just in case.

    I think the Starks have been betrayed. Whom was leading the force send to retake Winterfell? Roose Bolton’s bastard son. The Bolton’s have betrayed the Starks and destroyed their seat of power. To what ends, I don’t know, perhaps they wish to seize power in the North.

    Sounds plausible. Earlier, Robb had on several occasions slighted Roose by refusing to heed his advice on the treatment of prisoners and, by ending military discussions the moment Talisa showed up. That’s probably only the tip of the iceberg though, after all the Starks have been running the North ever since the Wall was built 8000 years ago. I expect that must have rubbed some of the lesser houses the wrong way at various points in history.

  81. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    Default King:
    Nagga’s Kin,

    I wasn’t “demanding” anything, and I already apologized to Mr. Is Coming for coming across as inconsiderate. :)

    Well, you kind of did complain about the moderators’ job performance. I’m sorry I didn’t see your apology before I posted my own reaction. If you’re good with WiC now, all is well.

  82. Joffrey is Awesome
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin: Fair enough, but in this particular case the only book reference was that the Winterfell plot unfolded differently than in the TV show. The vehemence of your reaction struck me as disproportionate.

    Sorry, I panick when I see any post containing anything along the lines of “I’m a book reader..” or “In the books..”. Even knowing that storylines unfold differently has certain implications.

    I propose a Zero Tolerance rule to all book readers: If you make ANY sort of reference that you have read the books, your post is deleted. Even if it doesn’t contain spoilers. Theres just no need for book readers in here. The message should be loud and clear: BOOK READERS ARE NOT WELCOME HERE.

  83. Default King
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    I’m not trying to split hairs here, but “complaining” (which I was totally doing) is not the same as “demanding” (I demanded nothing). Besides, we are on the same team here; I just want to see this site be a “safe place” for people who haven’t read the books, as I have no doubt you do as well! =)

  84. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    superkick,

    I have most definitely NOT read the books or a page thereof, or any summaries anywhere, and go FUCK YOURSELF for suggesting it. I’m an attentive viewer and I’m addicted to the show and this is the ONLY spoiler free place I’ve found on the web to chat and write about it. Superkick you must be too stupid to digest the show if you think my writing is based on ANY reading from the books. F You.

  85. Joffrey is Awesome
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    To further hammer in my point: I want even innocent “I’m a book reader and I love seeing your reactions!” posts deleted. I’m generally a “don’t punish someone until they’ve done something wrong” type person, but time and time again it’s been shown that book readers are a risk when it comes to these threads. I think this is the only way to hammer in the point that book readers shouldn’t be in this thread. Sorry book readers, I know most of you mean well, but a few bad posts have ruined your guys reputation.

    Posts where book readers correct non-book readers on certain plot points should be deleted too. If the show hasn’t made something clear of something that was very clear in the books, I don’t want the clarification. For example: people clarifying that white walkers and wights are different. If we’re wrong, don’t correct us! Part of the fun is speculating even if our assumptions are all wrong.

  86. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    Does anyone else think that by the end of the show, the Stark house will just be completely eliminated? I just started rewatching season 1 and I noticed the foreshadowing of the wolf being killed by the stag’s broken antler because the wolf was “too far south” in the first episode. I wonder if that was only foreshadowing of Ned’s death or the house as a whole. They seem to be the only major family concerned with honor (even though Robb is technically an oath breaker) and good guys don’t seem to fair too well in Westeros.

  87. Winter Is Coming
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    death to lannisters,

    Feel free to defend yourself, but no need for the personal attacks.

    Joffrey is Awesome,

    You have a point. It is something that we will have to evaluate for next season. Thanks for the feedback!

  88. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    Theon Rules!:
    Also, to speculate more as to why Winterfell was burnt….By marrying Talisa, Robb broke an oath to Walder Frey. That could very well have pissed some people off.

    In season 1, King Robert mentioned in several scenes that Rhaegar Targaryen, then a crown prince, had abducted his betrothed and beloved Lyanna Stark. That ultimately led to rebellion and the extermination of the Targaryen family* that Maester Aemon talked about to Jon. Robb would surely have been taught all that as part of his education. Yet here he was once again “thinking” with his heart and gentlemen’s vegetables, not in terms of the feudal obligations that Catelyn kept reminding him of.

    However, Robb married Talisa in secret. There were not witnesses other than the septon. The sack of Winterfell must have happened for a different reason.

    *except for Rhaegar’s much younger siblings Viserys and Danaerys, who had been smuggled to Pentos in time.

  89. Brian
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Deleting posts because people admit to reading the books? Woah buddy, relax a little bit there.

    I’ll say this, though – I think there should be IP site-bans for people who *INTENTIONALLY* post spoilers on this (and future) threads.

  90. Maxwell James
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Joffrey is Awesome,

    I’m a book reader, and I agree with you! Which is why I like, never post here.

    These threads have the potential to be what the Television Without Pity forums are not: a place for genuinely unspoiled discussion. But us bookreaders have to keep out of it.

  91. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Mark,

    lacked A LOT of heart for me. you’re right, must have been the directing. not sure what else could account for it. there were a few very good emotional scenes (Theon’s scenes, Luwin’s scenes) – but mostly i just felt it was jumping around, covering ground, and most of it not that convincingly.

  92. Brian
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Look, if you don’t want the plot spoiled for you, read the books.

    Ya lazy bastards. ;-)

  93. Erik
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Theon Rules!,

    I thought about that too…Watching the 1st episode you had the whole family together – Ned, Catelyn, Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rickon and Jon Snow. Ned is dead and all of the children are separated except for Bran and Rickon and Catelyn is being held prisoner by Robb. Then there’s Theon, Hodor, Rodrik Cassel, Jory Cassel, Maester Luwin and Old Nan. All but Theon and Hodor are dead and we know what happened with Theon. Hell throw Benjen in there too, who knows what happened to him?

  94. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    Why not, I felt that was an personal attack on me. If he’s free to lob one I should be free to strike it down. And yes, angrily.

  95. funlight
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    Simple solution: book readers (like me — sorry, I wanted to see what the fuzz was about) use the threads intended for them.

    If non-readers want to ask the readers something, we won’t be difficult to find.

  96. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    It is true that they were married in secret BUT Robb hasn’t exactly been keeping his affair with Talisa a secret. If anything, quite the opposite. When Robb is in meetings discussing strategy, he dismisses his bannermen for time with Talisa.

    I’m sure all of his bannermen know what he is doing and it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that one (if not many) are disgruntled by it. Especially Walder Frey.

  97. Winter Is Coming
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Brian: I’ll say this, though – I think there should be IP site-bans for people who *INTENTIONALLY* post spoilers on this (and future) threads.

    There is.

    death to lannisters:
    Winter Is Coming,

    Why not, I felt that was an personal attack on me.If he’s free to lob one I should be free to strike it down.And yes, angrily.

    As I said, you are free to respond and defend yourself from the accusations. I don’t think you need to go so far as to call someone “stupid” and telling them to go fuck themselves though. That is a little out of line and goes against the commenting policies on this site.

  98. Udi
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    gotgotgot,

    Hehe… only negative?
    How about waiting nearly a year for next season?
    Well, I guess good things take time to make.

  99. Joffrey is Awesome
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    Brian: Deleting posts because people admit to reading the books? Woah buddy, relax a little bit there. I’ll say this, though – I think there should be IP site-bans for people who *INTENTIONALLY* post spoilers on this (and future) threads.

    I know it’s extreme, but being a Nazi about it is the best way to mitigate any sort of possibility of spoilers.

    Look at it this way: Risk vs Reward.
    Risk of book readers: Spoilers, even if unintentional.
    Reward: A couple of book readers are happy they made a post?

    Im not saying IP ban them, just delete the posts.

    Maxwell James: Joffrey is Awesome,
    I’m a book reader, and I agree with you! Which is why I like, never post here.
    These threads have the potential to be what the Television Without Pity forums are not: a place for genuinely unspoiled discussion. But us bookreaders have to keep out of it

    If you agree you wouldn’t have even made that post :P

    Winter Is Coming: death to lannisters,Feel free to defend yourself, but no need for the personal attacks.Joffrey is Awesome, You have a point. It is something that we will have to evaluate for next season. Thanks for the feedback!

    Thanks for the consideration! And sorry if I seem extreme, but I think it’s for the best.

  100. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Theon Rules!: Does anyone else think that by the end of the show, the Stark house will just be completely eliminated?

    No, I don’t. I mean I sure hope not. I’m not sure about all the foreshadowing you’re talking about – haven’t gone back and watched the episodes again. But, I think in some ways the Starks are still our heros/heroines and I don’t think they’ll all get eliminated. I think in some ways this is a story where at least some honor/good will triumph over evil … but we’ll see. I think if they all die there’s just no redemption for the audience. It does appear obvious to me however the direction that this is all heading in … that Dany’s dragons will be required to fight the white walkers or wights or whatever.

    I have two questions from this episode:
    - did anyone else find Robb’s marriage with Talisa not very believable? Yes, he’s a romantic who follows his heart (aren’t all the Starks?) but this seems a little far and too quick. He’s out there making sound strategic battle moves, and suddenly he makes a decision as strategically poor as this? He couldn’t wait til the war was over? They slept together once and decided to get married – is he an idiot? This just seems extremely ill advised on every level from the personal/emotional to the fighting strategic. I don’t see it as being in keeping with his character, which has been decisively smart until now. I get it that they are in love, but in this show we haven’t seen anyone get married so quickly, after one night in the hay.

    - I never really understood what Sam and his friends were doing up there, and where they were even. Three guys out there alone digging for … what … for two straight episodes now? What are they looking for/doing? Seems pretty risky.

  101. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    I thought it was a perfectly reasonable response to false accusations and being called a liar. But I take your point.

  102. Tha...
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Ms Jaqen H’agar,

    What do you mean Benjin was a whitewaker? whichone was he? the old looking dude on the horse?

  103. Joffrey is Awesome
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    death to lannisters: No, I don’t. I mean I sure hope not. I’m not sure about all the foreshadowing you’re talking about – haven’t gone back and watched the episodes again. But, I think in some ways the Starks are still our heros/heroines and I don’t think they’ll all get eliminated. I think in some ways this is a story where at least some honor/good will triumph over evil … but we’ll see. I think if they all die there’s just no redemption for the audience. It does appear obvious to me however the direction that this is all heading in … that Dany’s dragons will be required to fight the white walkers or wights or whatever.I have two questions from this episode:- did anyone else find Robb’s marriage with Talisa not very believable? Yes, he’s a romantic who follows his heart (aren’t all the Starks?) but this seems a little far and too quick. He’s out there making sound strategic battle moves, and suddenly he makes a decision as strategically poor as this? He couldn’t wait til the war was over? They slept together once and decided to get married – is he an idiot? This just seems extremely ill advised on every level from the personal/emotional to the fighting strategic. I don’t see it as being in keeping with his character, which has been decisively smart until now. I get it that they are in love, but in this show we haven’t seen anyone get married so quickly, after one night in the hay. – I never really understood what Sam and his friends were doing up there, and where they were even. Three guys out there alone digging for … what … for two straight episodes now? What are they looking for/doing? Seems pretty risky.

    - I also hope the Starks don’t all die. I don’t think they’d do that to us. I mean, Ned was bad enough.. but ALL the Starks?! That’s just cruel!

    - I agree it was stupid on Robbs part, but I don’t know about unbelievable. You gotta remember that Robb is still the YOUNG Wolf. He’s, what, 17 years old? As we’ve seen with Sansa and Jon, the Starks were raised a bit innocent and naive. He probably thinks sex = marriage, and that its the honorable thing to do, even if hes breaking his vows with the Freys. He’s just a kid.

    - I think they were digging trenches to help fortify the fist of the first men

  104. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Joffrey is Awesome: He probably thinks sex = marriage, and that its the honorable thing to do, even if hes breaking his vows with the Freys.

    True, I can see that.

  105. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    death to lannisters: True, I can see that.

    You also have to think: This story is not taking place in real time. I think it can assumed that the timeline from episode 1 to episode 10 is probably 6 months to a year, considering all that has gone on. It is not out of the realm of possibility for Robb to have known Talisa for 6 months or more. Also, we do not get to see them constantly. They may have had sex more than once. They may spend a fair amount of time together each day.Finally, Robb seems to genuinely like the fact that she is a kind hearted woman (cares for the wounded, the whole story about how she doesn’t believe in slavery, etc.). Couple all those together, and it is not crazy to see why Robb would want to get married to someone like that, rather than someone he has never met.

  106. WompWomp
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming: Yes, he is a book reader but there are no spoilers in his post, so I’m letting it stand. He just explained what happened based on information gathered from watching the TV show. There was no extra “book reader” knowledge within his comment and no spoiling of future events.

    I came here to briefly clarify the difference between WW and wights, but it’s clear book readers have no place here and I’ve stopped commenting here as a result. I just come here to feed off the new viewer excitement. But I do believe the spoiling issue can be helped by some vigilant visitors to the site. There should definitely be a flagging mechanism in place to address the issue. I believe non-readers have a much livelier discussion than readers do (as they’re not as concerned with the adaptation aspect, which is beaten to death in the reader recap threads), and their book-innocence deserves to be preserved. They are a vital lifeblood of the fandom, in some ways more so than avid readers of the series. As someone who really benefits from their enthusiasm, I’d really like to see their position preserved. I think there has to be a way the community can help, and not just burden the moderators with the tiresome task.

    death to lannisters:

    I thought it was a perfectly reasonable response to false accusations and being called a liar.But I take your point.

    I was already worked up by the time I got to the post.This chat is filled with so much pettiness and stupidity this time around.

    With all due disdain, just stop posting here. You just re-pasted your post from the reader recap. You clearly want your opinions on the show to be heard, but this isn’t the place for it.

  107. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp: With all due disdain, just stop posting here. You just re-pasted your post from the reader recap. You clearly want your opinions on the show to be heard, but this isn’t the place for it.

    What are you even talking about?

  108. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Theon Rules!: Robb seems to genuinely like the fact that she is a kind hearted woman

    I think he was turned on by her sawing off the leg too, lol!

  109. New Wolf
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    What a perfect season finale! I think this was the episode with the most fantasy elements in the show yet. It was really great.
    It was wonderful to see Sansa smile. She deserves to be happy. At least for a second. I hope Littlefinger will help her. I really think he will at least try. He is a liar usually but I think he’s being honest now because she reminds him of Cat.
    I hope this is not the last we’ve seen of Jaqen. I can’t wait to see where will Arya go to next. Maybe join the Brotherhood?
    Dany had some of the best moments of the series so far. Those scenes were beautiful. Seeing Drogo again… it was so emotional. And I love how powerful her dragons became! That scene with them killing the warlock was amazing.
    The scene with the Kingslayer and Brienne was also great. Both of them are starting to be my favorite characters.

    I really can’t wait for next season! I’ll start reading the books this summer so I guess that will calm me down.

  110. TheBlackFlame
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Some of the non-book readers need to relax eh!? It sucks that some jerk came in here and hit you guys with some majors spoilers and as irritating as I tend to find a lot you I would never put a spoiler in this thread. But you guys bagging on biagini for discussing Theon’s fate are ridiculous. How can something you just watched be a spoiler? Did Rob not offer an amnesty? Did Theon’s men not subdue Theon? Were there not people right outside the walls of Winterfell waiting to take Theon into custody? It didn’t seem very ambiguous to me. But I guess some people need everything spelled out for them. End Trolling

  111. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    TheBlackFlame: Some of the non-book readers need to relax eh!? It sucks that some jerk came in here and hit you guys with some majors spoilers and as irritating as I tend to find a lot you I would never put a spoiler in this thread. But you guys bagging on biagini for discussing Theon’s fate are ridiculous. How can something you just watched be a spoiler? Did Rob not offer an amnesty? Did Theon’s men not subdue Theon? Were there not people right outside the walls of Winterfell waiting to take Theon into custody? It didn’t seem very ambiguous to me. But I guess some people need everything spelled out for them. End Trolling

    I think people (including myself) are more bamboozled by how Winterfell managed to be burnt to the ground, which was not explained in the slightest. It was also kind’ve weird how Maester Luwin, Osha, Bran, and Rickon really didn’t even dwell on the fact that it was burnt. They kinda just walked away.

  112. Blourd
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp:I just come here to feed off the new viewer excitement. But I do believe the spoiling issue can be helped by some vigilant visitors to the site. . . . and their book-innocence deserves to be preserved. They are a vital lifeblood of the fandom, in some ways more so than avid readers of the series. As someone who really benefits from their enthusiasm, I’d really like to see their position preserved. I think there has to be a way the community can help, and not just burden the moderators with the tiresome task.

    Wholeheartedly agree. As another book reader, I don’t post any commentary here because I never know if I will give stuff away even by accident. I usually read through the new-viewer comments to see how (or in some cases, if) they are able to enjoyably follow along all of the plot lines (since a lot of the reader commentary is based on whether or not the show is doing the books justice, etc.). A lot of the time, we book readers are so close to the material and so hyper-critical of everything that doesn’t fit our own vision-in-our-heads, that we can forget that most if not all of the TV show actually DOES make enough sense for folks that are seeing it for the first time. With any luck, this will be the last time you all hear from me. ;^)

  113. TheBlackFlame
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Joffrey is Awesome,

    What you are proposing is both unfair and unenforceable. I wonder how you would feel if you were told that you were only allowed to post in the noob thread. I have just as much right to post on this site provided I follow the rules set forth by the moderators. Honestly at first I thought you were joking, Poe’s law and all. Moderators not telling you your business but you shouldn’t let a few people on either end of the spectrum determine your policy. People like the aforementioned spoiler person (didn’t see the post or his name) are definitely in the wrong but so are reactionaries like Jeoffrey when they say let’s punish everybody for what a few people do. Two wrongs don’t make a right. I usually restrict myself to harmless trolling but in this case I had to say something the fact the he wants that and that you said you would consider it isn’t cool. The guy said himself he’s being a Nazi about it and you’re going to listen to him? I just don’t get it.

  114. Winter Is Coming
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp: With all due disdain, just stop posting here. You just re-pasted your post from the reader recap. You clearly want your opinions on the show to be heard, but this isn’t the place for it.

    I’m pretty sure you have death to lannisters confused with someone else. The only post he has made in the other thread was one brief line about being disappointed in the finale. He expanded on his thoughts over here and he certainly didn’t copy and paste them across both threads. Plus there’s no need to tell people to stop posting here.

    And for the record, I feel confident that death to lannisters is a new viewer. If he is not, he has done a very good job of hiding it since he posts almost exclusively on the new viewer threads and never reveals any knowledge of future events.

  115. TheBlackFlame
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    Theon Rules!,

    See now here is where we get a lesson in site etiquette. I know why and what happened but I’m not going to say anything. It’s supposed to be a mystery and I don’t want to SPOIL it for you.

  116. ney
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    I fear for Joffrey now that Tywin Lannister is in King’s Landing. He’s not going to take crap from Joffrey.
    Plus Joffrey’s going to marry Margaery Tyrell. She seems much more twisted (and smarter) than Joffrey.

  117. Johnny Reno
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    Joffrey is Awesome:
    To further hammer in my point: I want even innocent “I’m a book reader and I love seeing your reactions!” posts deleted.I’m generally a “don’t punish someone until they’ve done something wrong” type person, but time and time again it’s been shown that book readers are a risk when it comes to these threads. I think this is the only way to hammer in the point that book readers shouldn’t be in this thread. Sorry book readers, I know most of you mean well, but a few bad posts have ruined your guys reputation.

    Posts where book readers correct non-book readers on certain plot points should be deleted too. If the show hasn’t made something clear of something that was very clear in the books, I don’t want the clarification. For example: people clarifying that white walkers and wights are different. If we’re wrong, don’t correct us! Part of the fun is speculating even if our assumptions are all wrong.

    You do realize how much of an ass you sound, right?

    I’m a book reader, and I watch this show with 2 or 3 of my friends who haven’t read them. I don’t spoil anything for them, and I love reading peoples speculations in these threads. So you’re saying I should be banned from posting in here at all? Because of one or two peoples douchebagery?

    With the inaccuracy of the spoilers, I’m guessing the “book reader” you’re complaining about from this thread actually just went to Wikipedia and threw a load of second hand info at you. Anyone can do that, and I would wager that it was a bout of intentional trolling.

    Anyways, you need to take a Ritalin or something. A lot of the points you’re complaining about have been more than covered in the show, without any additional information from the books. Hell, the guy who covered the Theon details even said the same thing as you before you blew up all over him because he said the phrase “this isn’t how it happened in the book”.

    Chill out man.

    That is all.

  118. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp: But I do believe the spoiling issue can be helped by some vigilant visitors to the site.

    Not from you Womp Womp, thank you very much.

    If you think I am a book reader than you clearly don’t have the judgement to be a moderator of any sort on this site.

    My comments are based on an avid and rapacious consumption of the show and nothing but the show – all 20 episodes so far! I haven’t read even a single page of the books, or summary of any kind, and wouldn’t dare to for fear of spoiling it for myself. I don’t even visit the HBO website or the Huffington Post recaps anymore because of the spoilers, though this site might be no better. If my insights are intelligent it’s because I’m paying attention and I’m invested.

  119. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming: I’m pretty sure you have death to lannisters confused with someone else.

    Thanks Winter Is Coming!

    BTW, I’m a “she” not a “he.” Funny that everyone here has assumed the opposite.

  120. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    TheBlackFlame,

    See, I don’t understand you.

    I agree with your criticism of Joffrey is Awesome. Book readers should be able to post where ever they want. But they should respect the rules of the thread. (I’m not saying you broke those.)

    But if you’re just going to come in here and contribute nothing to the discussion, all while saying most non-readers are “irritating” and talking to people like they’re children because they need some clarification on something, then why even post? You know, we haven’t all read the books (or in my case, read past the middle of GoT) so what is clear to you is probably not clear to everyone else.

    Instead of trolling a thread full of “irritating” “noobs”, why not get back to assembling and designing rocketships, because you’re apparently so much smarter than us all.

  121. The Flame That Shows
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    By Gods, Nagga’s Kin’s an asslicker!

  122. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    ney,

    Not to mention, Margaery is much too hot for Joffrey ;)

  123. Joffrey is Awesome
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    TheBlackFlame: Joffrey is Awesome, What you are proposing is both unfair and unenforceable. I wonder how you would feel if you were told that you were only allowed to post in the noob thread. I have just as much right to post on this site provided I follow the rules set forth by the moderators. Honestly at first I thought you were joking, Poe’s law and all. Moderators not telling you your business but you shouldn’t let a few people on either end of the spectrum determine your policy. People like the aforementioned spoiler person (didn’t see the post or his name) are definitely in the wrong but so are reactionaries like Jeoffrey when they say let’s punish everybody for what a few people do. Two wrongs don’t make a right. I usually restrict myself to harmless trolling but in this case I had to say something the fact the he wants that and that you said you would consider it isn’t cool. The guy said himself he’s being a Nazi about it and you’re going to listen to him? I just don’t get it.

    Completely different to compare you guys not posting here to me only being allowed to post in the “noob thread”. I’m at no risk to spoil anything to anyone. Book readers are, even when they don’t intend to. I know it’s extreme and nazi-esque, but these threads exist for one reason only: to facilitate discussion without spoilers. Book readers are a risk to that, and therefore should not be allowed to post in these threads, in my opinion. It’s clear that the current rules that allow “friendly” book readers in these threads just aren’t cutting it. I understand book readers like these threads because they like to get an idea of what the unadulterated fan who doesn’t know whats coming thinks.. but please, please, PLEASE use the “look, don’t touch” rule. Read the posts — but don’t post yourself! Even the smallest things you say can change what we expect from the show.

    Take what I got up in arms about earlier: When a book-reader comes along and outright confirms that the burning of Winterfell is supposed to be a mystery, it has implications. It implies that the Ironborn didn’t set fire to the place and leave and now we all expect some sort of strange trickery. Now, it didn’t spoil it for me personally because as I said in a post earlier, I thought it was intended to be a mystery.. but those are my *thoughts*, not a confirmation. Not everyone had put together that it was supposed to be a mystery, so now it’s spoiled for the people who thought the Ironborn burned down the place and got away.

  124. ts mackenzie
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    totally! i though he was captured on the wall of the capitol..
    bliss_street,

  125. ney
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    I expected “Valar Morghulis” to have a different pronunciation,: a bit more slow, sensual or exotic perhaps.
    Instead it was pronounced way too fast. It kinda reminded me of Dana Carvey’s “judicial system”‘.

  126. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    ney,

    totally, lol. I thought it would have more bass in it, a deeper slower more powerful sound. instead it was very syncopated.

  127. Jéssica De Freitas Maciel
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    Sorry wic, but i particularly don’t agree with him, why should we readers who didn’t post spoilers suffer and don’t interact with non-book-readers because of jerk book readers? This site always was a place for fans to gather and make friendships

    Joffrey is Awesome: Sorry, I panick when I see any post containing anything along the lines of“I’m a book reader..” or “In the books..”. Even knowing that storylines unfold differently has certain implications.

    I propose a Zero Tolerance rule to all book readers: If you make ANY sort of reference that you have read the books, your post is deleted. Even if it doesn’t contain spoilers. Theres just no need for book readers in here. The message should be loud and clear: BOOK READERS ARE NOT WELCOME HERE.

  128. young stark
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    one horn for nightswatchmen,two for wildings……..three for white walkers

  129. Joffrey is Awesome
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    Jéssica De Freitas Maciel: Winter Is Coming, Sorry wic, but i particularly don’t agree with him, why should we readers who didn’t post spoilers suffer and don’t interact with non-book-readers because of jerk book readers? This site always was a place for fans to gather and make friendships

    Because the goal of this thread is a friendly environment for book readers to feel safe from spoilers. Sorry, but you guys just can’t be trusted =/ It’s nothing personal. I know 99% of the book readers aren’t trying to spoil, but you accidentally do it all the time. Things you say and don’t even think about can cause us to change our perceptions. Minor spoilers have happened in every non-reader thread this season. At the end of the day, you have to realize that this thread isn’t about the fans as a whole, it’s about the non-book readers. It sucks, but it’s better to be extreme and maybe rub a handful of book readers the wrong way by deleting their posts, than be more open and risk pissing off non-book readers by letting spoilers slip through the cracks. Preventing spoilers is the paramount goal of these threads — promoting discussion between book readers and non-book readers is not.

  130. Flow101
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Best episode so far imo, even better than last epic battle!! I love all the surprises, and for the first time I liked the Dragon Queen’s story! Also good to heat that Jon Snow hasn’t been forgotten in the south :P

  131. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    Here’s a question for you: How did Jaquen know Arya’s last name was Stark? She never told him.

  132. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Theon Rules!:
    Does anyone else think that by the end of the show, the Stark house will just be completely eliminated?

    I don’t think the Stark family will be systematically hunted down and exterminated the way the Targaryens were (cp. Maester Aemon’s conversation with Jon at the Wall). Viserys and Dany survived only because they had been smuggled to Pentos as young children in the nick of time.

    However, it do believe it will be difficult for Robb to remain King in the North for very long, now that he has broken his vow to Walder Frey. Fealty cuts both ways. Moreover, Robb’s at odds with his mother, his siblings are all over the map and his castle has been burnt to the ground.

    death to lannisters:

    [...] I think in some ways this is a story where at least some honor/good will triumph over evil … but we’ll see. [...]

    - did anyone else find Robb’s marriage with Talisa not very believable? [...]

    - I never really understood what Sam and his friends were doing up there, and where they were even. [...]

    My take on GRRM’s work is that conventional fantasy genre notions of absolute good and absolute evil don’t apply. Every single character is a shade of grey somewhere in-between.

    Robb is chafing at the rules of a feudal society, especially in how they affect his personal life. He married Talisa for love (and the no doubt excellent fringe benefits), but from where he is standing right now, it was also an act of liberation/defiance. He’s young and idealistic, though he’s fighting for a different kind of society than his father did. The irony is that he could easily have taken Harrenhal, perhaps even Casterly Rock, while Tywin was off fighting Stannis.

    In episode 18, Dolorous Edd and Grenn were digging latrines on top of the Fist of First Men while Sam talked. The reason they’re at the Fist at all was to meet up with Qhorin and then make camp in a defensible position. Remember, virtually the entire Castle Black garrison is up there and, they’re all trained to spot approaching figures from a high vantage point.

    Sam told us how the First Men had used the Fist for defensive purpose for thousands of years and, that three blasts of the horn meant Wild Walkers were coming. Grenn’s discovery of the buried bundle proved that NW rangers had been on top of the Fist before and, Sam identified the material the spear points were made of: dragonglass a.k.a. obsidian.

    In episode 20, DE and Grenn were collecting dried dung for the Night Watch’s fires (cooking, heat) while Sam talked some more. Mormont’s initial concern had been an assault by Mance Rayder’s large wildling army but now he’s got even bigger problems.

  133. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    Jéssica De Freitas Maciel:
    Winter Is Coming,

    Sorry wic, but i particularly don’t agree with him, why should we readers who didn’t post spoilers suffer and don’t interact with non-book-readers because of jerk book readers? This site always was a place for fans to gather and make friendships

    I’m not a book reader and I support this position. As long as a comment is based exclusively on general knowledge and what has already been disclosed in the TV show, it should be allowed.

  134. Tha...
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    I have a question about Jaqen, I know his true purpose is not yet known, but how is it he went from being a prisoner to being (what seemed to be) a highly ranked knight among Tywin Lannister’s men?

  135. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    The Flame That Shows:
    By Gods, Nagga’s Kin’s an asslicker!

    a) Personal insults will get you nowhere.

    b) It’s rude to complain about another commenter’s position without quoting it.

    c) Given your attitude, I honestly don’t care what you think.

  136. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Tha…: I have a question about Jaqen, I know his true purpose is not yet known, but how is it he went from being a prisoner to being (what seemed to be) a highly ranked knight among Tywin Lannister’s men?

    Well, he can change his face, so who knows what else he is capable of? haha

    His “true purpose” is that he is a member of the faceless men, which is some sort of organization from his homeland of Braavos.

    Wait…………I’ll spoiler this, because it is some heavy speculation that could piss someone off. But it is all based on what we know from the show.

    Wasn’t Arya’s dancing teacher from Braavos? Is it possible that Jaquen is actually Arya’s dancing teacher, just after his face had changed?! I mean, we never really saw him die, so it’s possible right? And Jaquen was leaving King’s Landing the same day Arya last saw her dancing teacher. Syrio I think was his name. It would make sense as to why Jaquen took such a liking to Arya and why he knew her last name this episode. I would say the Faceless men are probably some sort of organization much like the brotherhood is in Westeros.

  137. Flow101
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    I’m still pumped for the 3rd season!! The second half of this episode looked like a movie, sometimes you can easily tell the difference between a movie and a tv series, and the end was just awesome, those crows at the top of the mountain are fked, … It’s getting really tempting to just read the books to see what happens lol but If I did that I wouldn’t enjoy this show as much as I do now…god 1 year is a long time…… must resist..

  138. Tha...
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Theon Rules!: Wasn’t Arya’s dancing teacher from Braavos? Is it possible that Jaquen is actually Arya’s dancing teacher, just after his face had changed?! I mean, we never really saw him die, so it’s possible right? And Jaquen was leaving King’s Landing the same day Arya last saw her dancing teacher. Syrio I think was his name. It would make sense as to why Jaquen took such a liking to Arya and why he knew her last name this episode. I would say the Faceless men are probably some sort of organization much like the brotherhood is in Westeros.

    Thanks, yeah after reading and watching the episode I tend to agree with you on Jaqen specially after he made the remark of the faceless men… I just dont see how he had (jaqen’s face) as a prisoner and the same face as a soldier… I recall Arya making a remark on a episode as to now you walk among them and he replies and now you serve them… (not quote) so I guess she was puzzled too as to how he was a now a shining knight lol.

  139. Nikst
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    Like so many before me have said: WOW. Loved the finale, where to begin…

    Drogo, Jason Momoa, so glad they found a way to bring him back. Incredibly heartfelt scene and great performances from both Jason and Emilia.

    Tyrion, my favorite character, gets no credit and get thrown out (more or less). Just like I was afraid of. Lets hope he continues to play the game and finds a way to get back on top and that he gets some type of revenge on Cersei.

    Arya, such a shame that she didnt decide to go with Jaqen and learn from him. Would have bean awesome to see her become a lethal badass!

    Brienne, awesome how she killed one of the soldiers slowly and how Jamie watched with a little bit of, what looked like, horror (well not horror, thats to strong, but you know what I mean) and also respect.

    Jon Snow, I do hope he gets ALOT more screnetime next season. I felt that his scenes were shortchanged most of the season and didnt really go anywhere. Although I did like them in one way or another but I feel they could have done allot more. Lets hope he gets a bigger part next year!

    Rob, feel with him, but a STUPID move none the less. He could have had her as his girlfriend in “secret” until he at least got rid of one enemy. Now he most likely has created another one, and he already has a shitload of enemies.

    Whitewalkers! Or should I say WhitewalkeR, no S. Because, heres what I think. You tell me what you think. I think that we only saw ONE whitewalker. The leader with the blue eyes and altogether different look then the other “human” ones. I think that the rest are just corpses brought back from the dead, somewhat, to do their bidding/fighting. I think that we have seen real Whitewalkers in the beginning of season 1 and once during the scene in the woods where Snow sees a baby get offered to the Whitewalkers as “payment”. And once now in the finale, where one of them leads an army of the “undead” towards the wall. What do you think, do you think they were all whitewalkers or just the ones that look like the leader did/does?

  140. Black as Snow
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    They sure tried to cram a lot of loose ends into this episode! They would have done themselves a real favor by going to ninety minutes or even two hours so that everything wasn’t so rushed and piecemeal. That’s my only complaint.

    I loved Tyrion’s scenes. I’m not sure why he’s no longer acting as Hand of the King in his father’s stead. Wasn’t Tywin busy losing a war before he raced to King’s Landing to save the day? Who will fight Robb in his stead? It seems like Tywin is the only leader competent enough to lead the Lannisters against the Starks. It doesn’t make sense for him to stay in King’s Landing. Although there could be some great Tywin/Joffrey scenes next season if he does!

    I’m excited that Margery is engaged to Joffrey. She can outwit him at every turn. And I think she’s more than Cersei bargained for too! I might just become a Tyrell fan! And the Tyrell forces will greatly bolster the Lannister forces against the Starks after all the losses they’ve taken this season.

    The actor who plays Theon was brilliant this episode. You almost have to feel for the guy. I’m not clear what his men’s intentions were at the end. I thought they were going to take him back to the Iron Islands, but the comments on here about turning him over to the Stark forces make sense. How else would the ironmen escape to the sea?

    I must be missing something because I’m not clear why Maester Luwin told Osha to take the boys away from Winterfell. Aren’t there reinforcements right outside the gates? Not that I would trust the guy who sent them…very creepy fellow. But the boys would surely be safer within the walls of Winterfell than out in the wilds.

    The look on Jaime Lannister’s face when Brienne cut down those men was priceless. I’ll need to watch the scene again. I haven’t warmed up much to Brienne, but she might just grow on me. And Jaime was his usual witty and wicked self. I love that man. They’d better not kill him anytime soon.

    Robb is an impetuous youngster isn’t he? He basically spit in Walder Frey’s face by marrying Tulisa. There’s no telling whether he will need to cross that bridge again in a big hurry! I can imagine his men getting pinned down and the bridge being their only escape. That’s just really bad timing on his part. He should’ve waited until things settled down to sort out what to do about his oath to the Freys. And how can Tulisa respect a man who would break his oath to be with her? Can she trust the oath he makes to her?

    I’m sad that there was no sign or mention of Davos. I thought he might have survived, but there was no clue one way or the other. I don’t care if his stupid son lived or not, but I really like Davos. Maybe he’ll come back looking like the Hound.

    Speaking of the Hound, Sansa truly is an idiot. She’s like a caged animal who is too afraid to leave her cage even when the door is standing wide open. I’m disappointed in her. Even though that smile was brilliant after her doe-eyed performance in front of Joffrey and Cersei. I wonder if Margery will try to have Sansa sent elsewhere once she is Queen.

    Jon Snow is finally becoming a man. It’s about time he came into his own. The last scenes between Jon and the Halfhand made it clear that Jon would end up killing him, but I enjoyed the way it played out. Halfhand doesn’t get tortured to death, and the wildlings begin to put some measure of trust in Jon. (Too much, if you ask me. I wouldn’t have cut his bonds.) I can’t wait to meet the King Beyond the Wall!

    Dany was great. “Thank you for teaching me this lesson.” Poetic justice for the fake King of Quarth. I loved that he was a fraud. Great wealth would have made things too easy for Dany. I like the thought of her landing in Westeros with her handful of people, her three dragons and her knight in shining armor. The scene with Drogo was touching. I don’t know what the meaning of those different settings are, but she had to repeatedly choose her dragons over the other things she thought she wanted most in the world. I think it helped her to understand her priorities, even if that was not the intent.

    I think that’s everything, except for the last scene. It was hilarious that the stewards were out scavenging for dung to burn after having to dig latrine pits last time we saw them. I’m surprised no rangers were sent with them after Jon and the others disappeared. I liked the scene, except for the very ending. The CGI was pretty lame, and I would have preferred not to see the white walkers yet.

    Overall, a great episode! A little confusing on some counts, but really enjoyable. The writers tied up just enough loose ends to give a sense of closure and left enough hanging to make me look forward to next season. I can’t wait!

  141. Black as Snow
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Nikst: Whitewalkers! Or should I say WhitewalkeR, no S. Because, heres what I think. You tell me what you think. I think that we only saw ONE whitewalker. The leader with the blue eyes and altogether different look then the other “human” ones. I think that the rest are just corpses brought back from the dead, somewhat, to do their bidding/fighting.

    That’s what I’m thinking. Except there were two of the greyish guys (white walkers?) on horse-zombies. One black horse, one white. The rest appeared to be dead wildlings and night watchmen. I hope those boys up on the Fist can come up with lots of flaming arrows!

    Oh, and one other thing, I want the old Jaquen Hagar (sp?) back! They turned a hottie into a nottie. Yuck. I’ll miss him!

  142. Ryan
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    drewn,

    Ash! Oh damn, didn’t even think of that, but it makes sense.

  143. ney
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    I want the old Jaquen Hagar (sp?) back! They turned a hottie into a nottie. Yuck. I’ll miss him!

    I agree!

    plus I wonder how Jaquen Hagar’s sex scenes would be like? I mean, he can change his face, and do all this magic. I wonder what else he can do… ;-)

  144. jelana
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    death to lannisters,
    I agree with everything you are saying here. A little underwhelming to me. The dragons breathing fire and killing Pyree looked terribly corny but I am told I am too analytical. As fast as Jacqen moves and the way he changes faces makes me wonder how he was ever captured but I did enjoy his role. At the time, the episode did seem too fantastical but hopefully, my mind will change about this. I enjoyed seeing Drogo again and it has been revealed that Dany will be Queen
    from the destruction of the throne room. I guess that has been obvious all along- what army can defeat full grown fire breathing dragons!

  145. NedsDeadBaby
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Wow, that was good one. There were/are soo many thoughts that come to mind about what happened in last night’s finale. Some of my thoughts are in sync with posts I’ve read but I’m too lazy to skim back through and reference posters as I post my thoughts. I am however, not too lazy to write 5 pages about the show..haha.

    Ok, so Tyrion…Damn dude. All that work and you still get snubbed. I really did think Tywin would see that Tyrion did a pretty decent job of things and not allow Joffrey and Cersi to trash him like that. Of course, we all know there isn’t a whole lotta love there; but he stopped the naval fleet, took charge of the troops when Joffrey ran off like a scared little b**** and his knight didn’t do anything when Joffrey left…except try to kill Tyrion, he stopped the gates from being knocked down, slowed up Stannis’ troops long enough for Tywin’s combined army to arrive (SURPRISE!), put Baelish in the position to talk to the Tyrell’s and start that alliance (I’m speculating here since I don’t remember them ever ACTUALLY talking about an alliance – just Margaery saying she wanted to be THE Queen, so it was somewhat implied), and is getting Jamie back through Baelish, although they don’t know that just yet Ok, so he brought his whore, and sell sword and sold Marcella off to Dorne…big deal, right? He just keeps getting the short end of the stick. Not to mention, they tried to kill him and he’s survived. That man better be plotting a serious dish of cold a** revenge. I’m worried about Shae though. I think she will be his undoing.

    Love the scene of Tywin’s horse crapping in front of the throne room. It gave a perfect ‘air’ of that entire scene, which was all basically horse manure anyway…especially Joffrey’s blind obedience to his word and his promise. Oh, you’re so beautiful. I’d love to marry you…but…gasp…I just can’t…I’m betrothed to someone else. Oh please…whatever dude. Go choke on a drumstick or something. Where’s Bronn and his ‘Pig s***’ when you need him? I knew Margaery was coming to King’s Landing. Just seeing the way things played out. She’s going to be too much for Joff. I’m hoping she takes control of things a little…and isn’t as nasty as Joff. I think she’ll match Cersi in wits and strategy…oh, sorry Tyrion…Tactics.

    Theon, oh poor Theon. I loved his agitation with the horn blower. That was hysterically beautiful. Alfie did a great job of selling his frustration with himself and the situation he’s put himself in there. Both of his speeches were pretty cool. And his comment to Luwin – “You may be right. But I’ve gone too far to pretend to be anything else.” Sad to see his men give him up as soon as they could though. He’s nothing to them, and that was painfully clear when he got knocked the F out. I don’t have much love for this guy, but you can really see where he’s coming from here.

    Dany…atta girl. I think the dreams/visions she was having in the HotU were perfect. The three things she wants most…Throne, Drogo & child, dragons…..which one do you want more though? I think it was a test and a possible foreshadowing of the future. I liked one of the poster’s comments saying it could have been ash rather than snow. If it was more vision, I’m thinking her coming out of the wall up North shows where she and her dragons will be needed most…..it is A Song of Ice and Fire. Dragons vs. the White Walkers anyone? It was cool to see her gain that inner strength again and find her dragons. I knew the vault was going to be empty. There was too much talk of how rich he was, it just felt funny and like Jorah said, they are not to be trusted. I didn’t expect her hand maiden to be in the dude’s bed too though. Good way for her to end that. I have to wonder about the rest of the people in Qarth…are they all phony’s?

    Brienne….oh Brienne. Nice job girl. That was pretty bad ass. You could see her setting up what she was going to do as soon as the name question came out. She definitely gave Jamie something to think about. She proved her mettle in combat and gained some respect from him.

    Robb…..bad move dude. This is going to come back to haunt you.

    Arya. I really wish she would have gone with Jaqen, but it was good to see her want to find her family. Make it back to what’s left of Winterfell. To see Jaqen change faces like that brought back thoughts of last season when one of Dany’s hand maidens told Viserys that there are men who can change their face like you change your clothes….very cool. The Faceless Men. Makes me think of Syrio…maybe he’s Jaqen….???? Although the heights and such are different, I think. It’d need to watch those episodes again to see the difference there. Definitely a different body type but if you can change your face, why not your entire body too? He would have to have been close to her at some point to know her last name and who was on her list. I’m thinking there’s more than one though….he seemed to come off that out cropping of rock pretty damn fast…and taking out all the guards at once? Or at least you would figure at the same time.

    Sansa….you could see her smile as she was leaving the throne room, before Baelish caught her. I liked his line though – We’re all liars, and every one of us is better than you. It seemed like she thought she was going home…yeah, not quite.

    Jon Snow, the HalfHand killer!! Too bad he had to take down one of his brothers, but we knew Qhorin was setting it up anyway and if Jon didn’t kill Qhorin, he would have killed Jon. It was good to see Jon fight again. He’s been played up as a dolt this season and hasn’t had a chance to prove himself. Why was Qhorin so revered by the Wildlings? Has Qhorin killed that many of them or something? Always eluding them? They were like…’Ooohhh, Aaaahhh..he killed HalfHand’ Untie him….we trust him know. Obviously there’s something else going on there…but what? Who knows…maybe we’ll find Benjin with the Wildlings now. I think Jon will find him there and then find his own true calling with the Wildlings. Oh yeah, one more thing…Hey Jon? WHERE THE F*** IS GHOST?!?!?!?! He better not come back as a Wight Direwolf….

    What was up with walking dead at the end? I wasn’t expecting so many reanimated corpses walking around. I guess I expected more of the White Walkers than anything else. Still…..pretty freaking cool. I loved the shot of them panning up the horse to get a good look at the Walker on top. His Ice Sword was amazing. It looked like there were 3 or 4 White Walkers on Horseback with the rest of them reanimated. It’s going to make war pretty hard…We definitely need Dany and her dragons to team up with Tyrion and his pig s***.

    All in all, I loved the first two seasons. I’m definitely addicted to the show and can’t wait to see the things play out in season 3….Tywin back in KL, Walkers marching on The King Beyond the wall – probably as a starter, Arya and her coin, Robb, Theon…wow.

  146. Mike
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Nikst:
    Like so many before me have said: WOW. Loved the finale, where to begin…

    Drogo, Jason Momoa, so glad they found a way to bring him back. Incredibly heartfelt scene and great performances from both Jason and Emilia.

    Tyrion, my favorite character, gets no credit and get thrown out (more or less). Just like I was afraid of. Lets hope he continues to play the game and finds a way to get back on top and that he gets some type of revenge on Cersei.

    Arya, such a shame that she didnt decide to go with Jaqen and learn from him. Would have bean awesome to see her become a lethal badass!

    Brienne, awesome how she killed one of the soldiers slowly and how Jamie watched with a little bit of, what looked like, horror (well not horror, thats to strong, but you know what I mean) and also respect.

    Jon Snow, I do hope he gets ALOT more screnetime next season. I felt that his scenes were shortchanged most of the season and didnt really go anywhere. Although I did like them in one way or another but I feel they could have done allot more. Lets hope he gets a bigger part next year!

    Rob, feel with him, but a STUPID move none the less. He could have had her as his girlfriend in “secret” until he at least got rid of one enemy. Now he most likely has created another one, and he already has a shitload of enemies.

    Whitewalkers! Or should I say WhitewalkeR, no S. Because, heres what I think. You tell me what you think. I think that we only saw ONE whitewalker. The leader with the blue eyes and altogether different look then the other “human” ones. I think that the rest are just corpses brought back from the dead, somewhat, to do their bidding/fighting. I think that we have seen real Whitewalkers in the beginning of season 1 and once during the scene in the woods where Snow sees a baby get offered to the Whitewalkers as “payment”. And once now in the finale, where one of them leads an army of the “undead” towards the wall. What do you think, do you think they were all whitewalkers or just the ones that look like the leader did/does?

    I believe the White Walkers are completely different from the Wights, which appear to mostly be mindless hordes, whereas the White Walkers are obviously sentient to some degree. They are seen giving what look like commands to, “March forward,” commands right at the end. Also, the Wildlings are vigilant about burning corpses or else “they” will come and raise the corpses. I’m confident we’re dealing with two separate entities.

  147. death to lannisters
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    jelana: the way he changes faces makes me wonder how he was ever captured but I did enjoy his role

    I wondered this too. If he’s so good at killing, and changing faces etc., I wonder why he ever needed Arya’s help to begin with …. can’t see a guy like that being captured.

  148. Yellow Dog
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    ney: I agree!

    plus I wonder how Jaquen Hagar’s sex scenes would be like? I mean, he can change his face, and do all this magic. I wonder what else he can do… ;-)

    Oh, great – now I’m not going to get any sleep again tonight. :-)

  149. jelana
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Nikst,

    I saw another WW on a white horse. Re-watch the episode.

  150. Jsnow
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Steven Swanson,

    Thank god. Directing the obligatory sequel to a formulaic superhero movie is just where he belongs.

  151. Jsnow
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Mark,

    Glad I’m not alone here.

  152. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    Ms Jaqen H’agar:
    i can’t believe benjin is a white walker, rob married that girl, maester luwin is gone, winterfell is practically nothing and nobody killed that prick joffery, how dirty they did tyrion even though without him stannis would be king and all lannisters dead…what an episode i loved it. so many things so many questions and jaqen h’agar went from fine to ewwww but the former h’agar i will always love

    Ummmmm…really? Jaqen has some explaining to do.

  153. crystal illescas
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    so much drama!!!!

  154. BornAmidstSalt&Smoke
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    at last…the raven has arrived and the maesters declared this great summer done at last…some says it will be the longest winter until season 3…

    and i think theon battle speech was great…up there with maximus (gladiator) and aragorn (lotr)…never though he be knocked down though…haha…

    thanks WiC…your hard works will echo through eternity…i will name my son for you and think of you when i inside my lover… :p

  155. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted June 4, 2012 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    Tha…:
    I have a question about Jaqen, I know his true purpose is not yet known, but how is it he went from being a prisoner to being (what seemed to be) a highly ranked knight among Tywin Lannister’s men?

    Just because a man has armor does not necessarily make him a knight. All the guards at the gates had on armor, they were not all knights. A woman believes from what Tywin L. said that able-bodied men were enlisted as fighters/guards, people with other skills were put to work in applicable jobs. So, armor, weapons, and training would have been provided to able-bodied men to help Tywin keep his “soldier numbers” as high as possible.

  156. Omar Brown
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 2:00 am | Permalink

    TheBlackFlame,

    At first your comments seemed harsh, but I understand, season 1 was spoiled for me by a troll and I really hated that.

    Many book readers come to this thread to avoid the bad parts of the other thread as there are no purists here that ruin the fun.

    Hmm, maybe in addition to “New viewer” and “Book Reader” recaps we need “Spoiling Trolls” and “Happy Go Lucky Book Readers” too. ;-)

  157. fres
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 2:44 am | Permalink

    With regards to Sam’s ending for season 2, what if he’s being set up to be the “mole” among the White Walkers, in parallel to Jon being the “mole” among the Wildlings? However, if that will happen, Sam needs to die first :(

  158. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 2:53 am | Permalink

    Omar Brown:
    TheBlackFlame,

    At first your comments seemed harsh, but I understand, season 1 was spoiled for me by a troll and I really hated that.

    Many book readers come to this thread to avoid the bad parts of the other thread as there are no purists here that ruin the fun.

    Hmm, maybe in addition to “New viewer” and “Book Reader” recaps we need “Spoiling Trolls” and “Happy Go Lucky Book Readers” too. ;-)

    A woman had a similar thought, perhaps after each episode there could be 4 recap threads:
    1-Book readers who loved the episode
    2-Book readers who hated the episode
    3- Non-book readers who loved the episode
    4-Non-book readers who hated the episode

    A woman actually enjoys reading reasoned comments on all sides, but some people would rather read only what they agree with, hence the existence of Fox, Drudge Report, etc…no offense intended to any who swing that way.

  159. gotgotgot
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 2:56 am | Permalink

    Nikst,

    I am pretty sure the whitewalkers are the ones that arnt zombie fied. Their were like 3 of them in that final shot. 1. the main dude with ice spear looking at Sam. 2. one with armor on and a ice sword raising in the air. 3. one horse in the far distance being riden.. so.. must have a whitewalker on it.

  160. The Kingshaver
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 5:57 am | Permalink

    spacechampion,

    Actually, “wight” only means an undead monster in fantasy fiction, starting with its use by Tolkien. In Middle English it simply meant a creature or person. As time went by, the word became a derogatory one. Nowadays, the fantasy meaning is probably the most widespread though.

  161. Kyle
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    Marco,

    White walkers are not undead humans. They were never human. They raise the dead to fight for them but they are other beings entirely.

  162. Follmann
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    TheBlackFlame:
    Some of the non-book readers need to relax eh!? It sucks that some jerk came in here and hit you guys with some majors spoilers and as irritating as I tend to find a lot you I would never put a spoiler in this thread. But you guys bagging on biagini for discussing Theon’s fate are ridiculous. How can something you just watched be a spoiler? Did Rob not offer an amnesty? Did Theon’s men not subdue Theon? Were there not people right outside the walls of Winterfell waiting to take Theon into custody? It didn’t seem very ambiguous to me. But I guess some people need everything spelled out for them. End Trolling

    I know right. On last episode’s recap, some people raged over me and my post got deleted just because I described Jon Snow and the Baratheons’ physical appearance on the books, as some people were saying show Jon Snow has Baratheon features.

  163. death to lannisters
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    One moment in this I did love in this episode was the brief break of joy across Sansa’s face when she realized she was free of her betrothal. Finally, her feelings revealed in expression. It’s too bad that it was so quickly interrupted by Little Finger – I don’t trust him for a minute. Does Sansa really need him to get out of there? I’m not sure what he said about how Joffrey would be more cruel to her now, I think he’s just trying to scare her into working with him. I always think it’s creepy when he talks about his love for Cat. I don’t know a thing about his sexuality – except that it seems pretty twisted. When he said, “I need to get some sons and grandsons” I sure hope he wasn’t alluding to Cat. I’m shocked he got Harrenhal for brokering the alliance – that’s a pretty big reward! Isn’t that like one of the prime castles?

    Another part I liked was seeing Arya affirm her loyalty and intentions with regard to her family. It’s the first time we’ve seen her say it. She’s always been one of my favorites, but this made me happy. I just hope she finds them before she’s all grown up.

    And I did think Theon’s speech was good. I feel bad for the dude.

  164. Laura T.
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    Joffrey is Awesome: propose a Zero Tolerance rule to all book readers: If you make ANY sort of reference that you have read the books, your post is deleted. Even if it doesn’t contain spoilers. Theres just no need for book readers in here. The message should be loud and clear: BOOK READERS ARE NOT WELCOME HERE.

    I’m a book reader, and while I usually only read the comments & only post on the book reader site, I feel compelled to respond. I come here to read the comments because as a reader, I already know most of what’s happening but I want to see how well the TV GOT is doing it’s job of efffectively telling it’s story. I’m not allowed to discuss the show AT ALL in my house for fear of spoiling anything for my non reader hubby so reading this page allows me to feel out non readers opnions & feelings about what they’ve seen or what they predict will happen. I also get a handle on what is unclear to viewers (which is clear to readers as we already know the backstory etc.). It’s actually exciting to see how much you, non readers, have to look forward to. Also, if a non reader asks a question that has been explained in the show but for whatever reason in unclear, as in the difference between a white walker & a wight, it’s not a spoiler to explain the difference. That’s it. Spoiler free post by a reader complete.

  165. Udi
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Laura T.,

    Thank you Laura. I am a book-reader and thought the same after reading the posts here.
    I LOVE reading non-reader posts and I try not to post anything here whatsoever.
    I certainly don’t post any spoilers (I don’t do that on any thread without spoiler alerts but here it is absolutely something I wouldn’t do in any case). The only advice I have for non-readers is: Wait a day or more before reading the posts (yes, even here). This will give the moderators enough time to delete spoilery posts. It’s not full proof but it should lessen to a great degree the risk of reading anything spoilery. As Larry Williams says: “Jus’ sayin’”

  166. ney
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    Maybe we should have separate thread called “Ask a Book Reader” .
    If someone (who has not read the books), has any questions, doubts, or wants to confirm his/her suspicions, they can post their comments or questions on this thread…
    Similar to Yahoo! Answers I guess.
    Don’t know. just saying. :-)

  167. Ro
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    I agree with Joffrey is Awesome.

  168. Yellow Dog
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. H’ghar,

    I think we agree that separate threads for lovers and haters would take all the fun out of these discussions. I like to read people’s different opinions of the show and their reasons why – they catch a lot of things I miss and remind me of things in the books that I’ve forgotten.

    As long as we are all civil – disagreeing with me does not make anyone a fucking moron, but calling me a fucking moron does – this should not be a problem.

    But by “fun” I do NOT mean trolling and spoiling!

    I love reading the non-reader comments because they add so much to my enjoyment of the show, but I refrain from commenting because I would feel like an MLB star playing on a Little League team – not fair, even without spoiling.

    And I spoiler-block my own comments in the reader thread when necessary because non-readers like to read that thread for the same reason I read this one and it’s just cruel to slap them with “if you don’t want to be spoiled, don’t read!”

  169. death to lannisters
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    I lament that this thread is just becoming about the thread, and not about the show!

  170. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    death to lannisters: I lament that this thread is just becoming about the thread, and not about the show!

    Notice someone with the username “Joffrey is awesome” started this whole thing haha

  171. The Mourning Star
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    I’m digging the idea of “ask a book reader” thread.

    Hey, “Joffrey is Awesome”, have you ever considered that maybe your whining and complaining and demanding is just fueling the fire of book readers to mess with you? Your ranting and raving isn’t helping your cause at all, it’s actually reminding of the real Joffery throwing one of his little hissy-fits. So…maybe, as someone above said, “go choke on a chicken bone” and chill-out.

  172. death to lannisters
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    Theon Rules!,

    I was gonna say something about it but didn’t want to be mean … the whole thread got too negative.

    Here’s a question: the whole Jon/Qhoran thing seemed kinda lame to me… I mean I get it that Qhoran was sacrificing himself so that Jon could win their trust and infiltrate … but why did it work so well. I thought the Wildlings were super bad ass. Why are they so impressed with Qhoran’s slaying? Is it because Qhoran was the great feared Crow or something? If I was a Wildling or the Lord of Bones I think Jon/Qhoran’s act would be pretty transparent. Not enough to win my trust. Was it known that noone could win him in a sword fight or something? I get where the plot line is going, just seems a little far fetched.

  173. Hexonx
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. H’ghar: Just because a man has armor does not necessarily make him a knight. All the guards at the gates had on armor, they were not all knights. A woman believes from what Tywin L. said that able-bodied men were enlisted as fighters/guards, people with other skills were put to work in applicable jobs. So, armor, weapons, and training would have been provided to able-bodied men to help Tywin keep his “soldier numbers” as high as possible.

    hehe, kind of like the whole Hot Pie/Lommy/Arya/Gendry conversation about battles, Knights and armor. The better question is if Jaqen is such a bad ass how was he a prisoner in the first place and how did that crude cage hold him?

  174. The Mourning Star
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    death to lannisters,

    I know what you mean, these storylines need to be grounded more in reality like White Walkers, Drangons and Wildfire, I mean come-on, who would ever believe that two rangers could devise a plan to sacrifice one and take one for the team? Sheesh… lol.

  175. Hexonx
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    death to lannisters: Here’s a question: the whole Jon/Qhoran thing seemed kinda lame to me… I mean I get it that Qhoran was sacrificing himself so that Jon could win their trust and infiltrate … but why did it work so well. I thought the Wildlings were super bad ass. Why are they so impressed with Qhoran’s slaying? Is it because Qhoran was the great feared Crow or something? If I was a Wildling or the Lord of Bones I think Jon/Qhoran’s act would be pretty transparent. Not enough to win my trust. Was it known that noone could win him in a sword fight or something? I get where the plot line is going, just seems a little far fetched.

    Qhorin is a living legend among the Crows and is a known bad ass by the Wildlings. Remember him asking Ygritte what would happen to him if he were captured. I’m not sure the wildlings “trust” him yet but taking out the most hated Crow is a good start. They cut his ties off but didn’t give him his sword back (not like he has anywhere to escape to). I assume he will have to do some convincing to the King beyond the Wall.

  176. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    death to lannistersHere’s a question: the whole Jon/Qhoran thing seemed kinda lame to me… I mean I get it that Qhoran was sacrificing himself so that Jon could win their trust and infiltrate … but why did it work so well. I thought the Wildlings were super bad ass. Why are they so impressed with Qhoran’s slaying? Is it because Qhoran was the great feared Crow or something? If I was a Wildling or the Lord of Bones I think Jon/Qhoran’s act would be pretty transparent. Not enough to win my trust. Was it known that noone could win him in a sword fight or something? I get where the plot line is going, just seems a little far fetched.

    I agree. Jon’s whole storyline this season was kinda lame though compared to what I feel it could have been. I feel like it would have been a really great addition to “A Man Without Honor” if they had shown Jon and Qhoran have a really emotional conversation about duties, honor, life, etc. It would have really gone well with the theme of the episode.

    The way they did it, I just feel was very uneventful, and also farfetched as you stated. If anything, I feel Jon would have been pressing Ygritte to let him become a wilding. Maybe even taken her up on her offer to get lucky. Then as an act of devotion, they may have asked him to behead Qhoran or something. The fact that they let them fight to the death, and then immediately cut Jon loose afterwards just seems silly. And I’ve also seen quite a few people were confused about why he did it, which is understandable because there was really only 1 line implying that he was doing it to infliltrate the Wildlings.

    It’ll be really interesting down the line, as I think it will be pretty hard for Jon to resist his feelings for Ygritte. My speculation is that he goes in believing he is going to be a spy within the wildlings, and actually ends up becoming a high ranking officer within their army. This will only be lead along by the fact that I feel Robb is going to lose control of the north and possibly die down the line after betraying Walder Frey and with the Lannister/Tyrell alliance coming together. After Robb’s forces are wiped out, Jon will really have no ties to the world below the wall, and will feel his duty to the Night’s Watch is less important.

    This will lead to a war between Daenerys (who will take Westeros with her full grown dragons) and Jon and the Wildings/whitewalkers/wights. I speculate this because we see snow falling in King’s landing in the finale, as well as Dany traveling beyond the wall.
    That’s probably wayyyy down the line at this point, but I’m bored at work, so I had plenty of time to type what I have formulated after a day or two to stew over the finale!

  177. Eoooooor
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    I’m a BOOK READER and I’d say that I’m annoyed whenever I read this thread and see people having a discussion, then some book reader comes in and goes “OH GUYS THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED” and end all discussion. Even worse are the fake non-readers who come in here to act like they’re smart or something, like episode 8 where Tywin said he was marching north. Book readers know where he was really going, and if you look at that new reader thread you’ll see all the people acting like they’re new but then mentioning “Tywin’s march on King’s Landing” or something similar to show they’re full of shit.

    So simply, what purpose do we have here, other then to provide spoilers? It’s not like we can’t have discussions with them in other places

  178. death to lannisters
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    The Mourning Star,

    Even in fantasy fiction, you want to feel that your characters and their motivations are real in the given context, otherwise what would keep you invested?

  179. The Mourning Star
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    death to lannisters,

    I know, I was just messing around.

  180. death to lannisters
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    Theon Rules!,

    Theon Rules, I have a different speculation than yours. I too think Jon will become a leader of the Wildlings, but I think (hope!) he’ll then unite with Robb’s forces below the Wall to fight the White Walkers. Of course they won’t completely win – since the zombie army is only increased by dead bodies. Only fire kills them permanently, so Daenerys dragons will definitely be needed! You might be right, but mine is more hopeful – I hope Robb doesn’t die and they are able to fight as brothers.

  181. ace
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Hexonx: hehe, kind of like the whole Hot Pie/Lommy/Arya/Gendry conversation about battles, Knights and armor.The better question is if Jaqen is such a bad ass how was he a prisoner in the first place and how did that crude cage hold him?

    In the last episode, when Jaqen asked Arya to go with him to Braavos and she refused and he said something about “having other duties” to perform. It is possible, he also had a duty to perform during that journey from Kings Landing to harrenhal. His duty entails acting as a prisoner and not escaping.

  182. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    ace: In the last episode, when Jaqen asked Arya to go with him to Braavos and she refused and he said something about “having other duties” to perform. It is possible, he also had a duty to perform during that journey from Kings Landing to harrenhal. His duty entails acting as a prisoner and not escaping.

    Maybe his “duty” was to look after Arya? Varys or Syrio could have had hired the Faceless men to look after her?

  183. death to lannisters
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Well remember it was LittleFinger who Cersei initially asked to find Arya. When she did her little “power is power” enactment. Oddly, he hasn’t mentioned it since. Why would Varys look after her? I don’t even know who Syrio is lol!

  184. Doug
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    So this is a recanting post on my part, I will leave spoilers out. I was on here ranting and rambling about my disappointment with the House of the Undying and the lack of visions and foreshadowing. However I take it back after watching the episode again. Number one the visions they left out would have either confused or spoiled things for you non-book readers, and the rest of it was great so I jumped the gun a little on my first gut reaction. Which I tend to do heh.

    Now second, and I can’t talk much about this without ruining something for you all. But they need to fix Rob Stark’s story in season 3. I think they will. In the books he only marries that girl because he feels like it’s the right thing to do and what his father would do, and because he doesn’t want to make a bastard like Jon Snow. They did a terrible job of portraying that in book 2 but they have plenty of time to fix it and I think they will so I”m not going to over react to that either. Other then that season 2 was amazing and near perfect. Most of the changes they made were for the better. But without giving a spoiler they really do need to fix Rob’s situation and story, you will understand why when things go the way they go.

  185. Doug
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    death to lannisters,

    Syrio was Arya’s Dancing Master AKA sword teacher in season 1! I can’t believe you don’t remember him he is one of the more popular and memorable characters heh.

  186. Steven Swanson
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    death to lannisters: Well remember it was LittleFinger who Cersei initially asked to find Arya. When she did her little “power is power” enactment. Oddly, he hasn’t mentioned it since. Why would Varys look after her? I don’t even know who Syrio is lol!

    Syrio is/was Arya’s Braavosi “dancing master” from last season.

    And you have to wonder if Cersei’s little “power is power” thing made Littlefinger determined NOT to reveal Arya’s whereabouts if he found her, because it sure looked like he recognized her with Tywin, but has said nothing. He’s not a man who likes to be threatened.

  187. We Do Not Sow
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    death to lannisters,

    Wow great thought…. It never crossed my mind!

  188. death to lannisters
    Posted June 5, 2012 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    Doug: Syrio was Arya’s Dancing Master AKA sword teacher in season 1! I can’t believe you don’t remember him he is one of the more popular and memorable characters heh.

    Ah of course I remember him, just didn’t know the name! Sometimes I don’t catch all the names!

  189. Max
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Theon Rules!:
    John Juliano,

    I fear Davos might be dead, and that makes me really sad.

    If I follow correctly, Jon killed Quorin because he wanted the Wildlings to trust him so he could infiltrate them, right?

    I think so too, but did Quorin fight poorly to let Jon win? I thought he did.

  190. Max
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    Mark:
    Whst happened at winterfell? Iron island guys leave, ok I can live with ambiguity of dud they drag Theon offi or hand him over. But why was city burned w/no sign of those 500 men sent by Robb? Did they just leave?? W/o checking on the you get Stark sons?

    Otherwise, really great. Surprised Tyean doesn’t want his smartest son advising him in that snakes nest

    Did Dagmer sell Theon to the Boltons for their freedom? Thats how it looked to me, but it could also be that they had found some of these hidden escape tunnels Luwin mentioned, and just knocked Theon out to save him despite his deathwish.

    But Dagmer and Black Lorren do not strike me as someone who saves people.

  191. Bran the Builder
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    Just skimming through this, there seems to be some confusion about white walkers.

    White walker = race of malevolent demon-looking winter things

    Wight = dead humans and animals raised again under the sway of the White Walkers

    That is all.

  192. Ditchdigger
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    If I’m not mistaken, the one who slashed Tyrion is actually a White Cloak (Kingsguard) rather than a Gold Cloak… an even worse betrayal! He’s the guy who Joffrey gets to strip and backhand Sansa whenever he likes.

    And yeah, Arya is fricking awesome. She was always my favorite character, and the moment she learned swordplay, evaded death in King’s Landing and started chanting a litany of people she wanted dead I immediately began hoping she would someday become a badass assassin.

  193. death to lannisters
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    I rewatched the episode and learned something I had missed. After Jon kills Qhorin, the Lord of Bones says to his men “bone him” and then to Jon “you don’t want this one coming back for you.” And then you see a fire.

    So I guess if the dead are de-boned they are not raisable by the White Walkers. No wonder the Wildlings hate the Crows so much – they leave their dead out carelessly, to be reanimated for the undead army. A huge threat to all.

    I also noticed that when the massive jib pan pulled back to reveal the undead army, you could see that some of them are dressed as Wildlings, some as Crows, and others.

    I still think our first glimpse of the White Walkers (or some creature like that) in the first episode of season 1 was much more compelling than this close/reveal of season 2. The former seemed very unusual and magical – terrifying, evil, but completely mysterious and beguiling. You couldn’t even tell how they moved from one place to another, seemed to appear and disappear in a magical terrifying taunt. But this ending image of the undead army marching felt more like classic zombie images/notions, a bit more cliche. The White Walker had a crazy interesting face, but in general I felt like I’d seen this before in other movies/stories so it was kind of a let down.

  194. Bran the Builder
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    death to lannisters:
    I rewatched the episode and learned something I had missed.After Jon kills Qhorin, the Lord of Bones says to his men “bone him” and then to Jon “you don’t want this one coming back for you.”And then you see a fire.

    The Lord of Bones said burn him, not bone him.

  195. death to lannisters
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Bran the Builder,

    Oh! Thanks.

  196. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    Could someone explain this to me:

    In season 1, when Jon saved Commander Mormount from the undead ranger, was that ranger a white walker or a wight? It appeared to be very strong and was able to move around relatively quickly, so it would make me lean towards thinking that it was a white walker since all the other whitewalkers shown appear to have a great amount of strength and agility (i.e. the first scene of the show, Craster’s child being taken). But that would make no sense because people in here have been saying that the white walkers are not humans that are raised from the dead, but an entirely different species.

    The problem I have with how they portrayed that last scene was that they made the horde look like cliche zombies who walk slowly, stagger, etc (even the guy on the horse, who was supposedly a white walker didn’t have a look that was distinguished from the others). In season 1, the man who tried to kill the commander essentially looked human (minus the blue eyes) and was not moving in the generic staggering fashion zombies move in. It seems like they just dropped the ball there and have done it two different ways.

    Are wights generic staggering zombies, or are they just dead people who essentially can perform the same way in battle that a living human can?

  197. loco73
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    I have only read the first book and a few chapters in the second so I don’t know if that makes me officially a book reader…if so I’m a newly minted one…

    At the risk of giving just a tid-bit of info away, this goes to the discussion of wights (the dead-re-animated bodies) versus the White Walkers. In the books the White Walkers are called The Others (thought they are often referred to as White Walkers also). So that there clearly implies that they are a different race completely. The only link between the wights and the White Walkers are the blue eyes…which I assume is the life-force or energy that the Walkers use to revive the corpses of the dead. We saw that in the First Season prologue (remember the little girl) and then the dead Brothers who attacked Old Bear Mormont…when Jon defended him. As for the closing shot, yeah I saw 3 Walkers also…

    Seeing how they look I got a hunch of who these guys are (The White Walkers), but I’ll keep it to myself…because anyways nothing is ever certain in the ASOIF universe! I am also uncertain of their numbers…how many of these guys are there? Clearly not enough to make an army comprised just of White Walker, hence their need to bolster their own numbers with wights or zombies…

  198. Garris
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    Bran the Builder,

    Bran the Builder: death to lannisters:

    The Lord of Bones said burn him, not bone him.

    ROTFL! Bone him! Yes, I bet that’s what they tell all the new recruits: “You have to bone the corpses to keep them from coming back”. <a Must be some confusion it was the Hound last week who seemed to be interested in boning corpses.

  199. Garris
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    We Do Not Sow: think it will be even tougher to watch Theon get belittled by his father and sister next season too.

    Umm, just a non-book-enlightened guess, but there is no way Theon is every going to see his family or the Iron Islands again. He ate the fruit of death, like Renly, Tickler and Jaquen. I predict he dies in the first episode next season.

  200. Sergey
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    Garris: Umm, just a non-book-enlightened guess, but there is no way Theon is every going to see his family or the Iron Islands again. He ate the fruit of death, like Renly, Tickler and Jaquen. I predict he dies in the first episode next season.

    Speaking of, I didn’t really understand what happened in Winterfell. I assumed they knocked him out to give him to the Stark bannermen outside the gates since Rob in the previous episode stated that they should be allowed to leave if they hand Theon over. But the Winterfell town ends up torched and everyone killed off, so… How in the world did that happen? There’s no way Greyjoy’s raiders would have been able to do that and escape. And where ARE the Stark bannermen when the Stark children come out of hiding?

  201. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Garris: Umm, just a non-book-enlightened guess, but there is no way Theon is every going to see his family or the Iron Islands again. He ate the fruit of death, like Renly, Tickler and Jaquen. I predict he dies in the first episode next season.

    I still hold out hope that Theon will have his redemption! He’s constantly belittled and doubted and dragged through the muck in fifty different directions. Something good is bound to happen to him eventually, right? I hope so.

  202. Garris
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    Sergey: Speaking of, I didn’t really understand what happened in Winterfell….

    From the non-book reader comments and reviews I have been reading nobody, including me, really understands it. My guess is this was a bit of muddled book to screen translation. There is what some (non-book readers) consider a clue here on the HBO viewer’s guide site.

    NOT asking for any book readers to clarify, thanks- I’m sure we’ll find out next season.

  203. Garris
    Posted June 6, 2012 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    Theon Rules!: I still hold out hope that Theon will have his redemption! He’s constantly belittled and doubted and dragged through the muck in fifty different directions. Something good is bound to happen to him eventually, right? I hope so.

    He could redeem himself in death somehow, say sacrificing himself to save Bran and Rickon’s lives. But he’s a dead man walking. Remember Ser Roderick’s gracious last words before Theon chop-kicked his head off? Something like: ‘ Gods help you Theon Greyjoy because you’re truly lost now’. I thought that was pretty awesome.

  204. Andrea
    Posted June 7, 2012 at 5:36 am | Permalink

    Guys I leave this comment just to tell you that I’m so happy to have found this website and to find out that there are so many people completely crazy about Game of Thrones as I am.
    I’m addicted 100% to this series and it never happened in my life.
    I cannot even imagine how I will be able to wait until next April.

  205. death to lannisters
    Posted June 7, 2012 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    Theon Rules!: The problem I have with how they portrayed that last scene was that they made the horde look like cliche zombies who walk slowly, stagger, etc

    couldn’t agree more

    Theon Rules!: I still hold out hope that Theon will have his redemption!

    Garris: He could redeem himself in death somehow, say sacrificing himself to save Bran and Rickon’s lives.

    Take heart Theon Rules! I think Theon has a role to play yet. Remember Master Luwin said to him, “You are not the man you are pretending to be … YET.” This foreshadows to me that one day he will fulfill a destiny of courage. He still has to blaze his own path. My guess is that he was knocked unconscious to be returned/traded to Robb’s forces in return for the other Ironborns’ freedom. Which I think is good – I think he’s better off with Robb, even as a prisoner, than he is with his horrible Ironborn father. I think he has a destiny that will reveal itself yet.

  206. GoTAddict
    Posted June 7, 2012 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    don’t understand why so many people like theon. for me he betrayed the starks, killed sir rodick, wanted bran and rickon to be dead and maester luwin died because of theon. after joffrey he is my second most hated character. don’t get me wrong, i love alfie, but i can’t understand theon’s character. i’m not keen of theons destiny and i don’t want him to see any more. just my opinion ;)

  207. IHATECGI
    Posted June 7, 2012 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Did anyone else feel that those disney zombie cartoons at the end ripped them out of the otherwise classy and realistic atomosphere of the rest of the show. Seemed like a cop out to me…hire real actors and dress them the way you did in the first episode…

  208. death to lannisters
    Posted June 7, 2012 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    GoTAddict,

    I totally understand you. I didn’t have much sympathy for him myself, and still don’t, though I like him better after this episode than before. I asked Theon Rules! what he liked about Theon in a former thread, and that discussion won me over a bit, at least it took the bitterness out of my disposition. I don’t love Theon, no, but I do sympathize with the difficult position of loyalties he is in. And even though he’s done some horrible things, he’s done them with a twinge of conscience – a torn feeling – which is more than I can say for most characters in this show.

  209. Garris
    Posted June 7, 2012 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    IHATECGI:
    Did anyone else feel that those disney zombie cartoons at the end ripped them out of the otherwise classy and realistic atomosphere of the rest of the show. Seemed like a cop out to me…hire real actors and dress them the way you did in the first episode…

    The first season ended in Fire and Blood, this one ended in…. cheese.

  210. Garris
    Posted June 7, 2012 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    GoTAddict:
    don’t understand why so many people like theon.

    He’s a human train wreck, it’s morbidly fascinating to watch.

  211. Garris
    Posted June 7, 2012 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    Theon Rules!:
    Does anyone else think that by the end of the show, the Stark house will just be completely eliminated? I just started rewatching season 1 and I noticed the foreshadowing of the wolf being killed by the stag’s broken antler because the wolf was “too far south” in the first episode. I wonder if that was only foreshadowing of Ned’s death or the house as a whole. ..

    You have to admit that elimination of the entire Stark house is certainly the trend so far. But I don’t see Jon or Arya dying.

    Good catch on the ‘too far south’ thing, I missed that. I read somewhere that the stag and the wolf killing each other meant Robert and Ned would kill each other. Robert killed Ned by making him Hand. Ned killed Robert with his ‘mercy’ to Cersei.

  212. death to lannisters
    Posted June 7, 2012 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    Garris: The first season ended in Fire and Blood, this one ended in…. cheese.

    Love it! (your line)

  213. Garris
    Posted June 7, 2012 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Andrea: Guys I leave this comment just to tell you that I’m so happy to have found this website and to find out that there are so many people completely crazy about Game of Thrones as I am.
    I’m addicted 100% to this series and it never happened in my life.
    I cannot even imagine how I will be able to wait until next April.

    Now if only there were a web site :::cough Winter Is Coming ahem::: that would put up an ongoing forum that didn’t die after a week like all these recap comment pages then we hopelessly addicted Throne Heads would have a place to come during the off season and ease our withdrawal symptoms.

  214. JofreyMustDie
    Posted June 7, 2012 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

    Valar Morghulis:”All Men Must Die”- great episode title

    Sorry for the lateness of my reply. I was not as negative and critical as some of you about the season finale, but I did find some parts dissapointing. So I will just give my thoughts on the episode based on location.

    Beyond the wall- The white walker army was one of the highlights of the season in my opinion. I was blown away by how real and intense they looked. Poor Sam though, even the white walkers dont want him! But it looks like the rangers at the fist of the first men are in trouble.

    I saw Jon Snow killing Qhorin from a mile away, in order to infiltrate the wildlings, so that was a little dissapointing. But it will be interesting to meet Mance Raydor and the gang next season. Also, where is Jon’s Uncle???

    Winterfell- Poor Maester Luwin :( Looks like Theon is getting taken back to the Iron Isles, itll be an interesting reunion with his father. They must have used the underground tunnels to escape Im thinking. Brann and the gang headed for the wall, is a reunion with Jon Snow in store?

    Dragonstone Its interesting that Stannis is still alive, but I cant help wonder where he goes from here. Army defeated. Davos is presumabely dead. He and the priestess will have to conjure up some sort of trouble next season.

    Harenhal This was one of the better storylines this season in my opinion, but just when it was getting most interesting I was let down. How epic would it have been for Arya to go to Braavos with Jaqen to train as a faceless assassin? Think of all her crazy adventures and maybe even come across Daenarys. And then return to take revenge. Very dissapointing.

    Westerlands Boring. Ok, Robb found himself a hot little wife, but if he focussed more on the war he probably would have won by now. I guess they are just trying to set up this conflict with Walder Frey for next season, when he cant return his army north for breaking his promise.

    King’s Landing Jofrey’s marriage with Maergry has been getting set up all season, so no surprises there. I just want Brienne to get to Kings landing and get this prisoner exchange over with, as Sansa’s storyline is getting really stale. They went for character develop with Brienne killing those soldiers I guess. I was thinking it would be cool if she met up with Sandor Clegane next season. Two physically unappealling people with a love for killing. He would want to save Sansa as well.

    Biggest dissapointment this season-THE (P)IMP! I cant believe he got screwed over like that, when he was the one who rallied for Kings Landing. Bronn is no where to be found, his father wont even throw him a bone. I guess they want to build him as a rocky story for next season, where he has to climb back to the top. I was thinking Gregor Clegane will probably be the new head of gold cloaks.

    Qarth- Danaerys time in Qarth rapped up nicely I thought. The wizards destroyed by their own magic, Daxos locked up in his own fake vault, and she got her dragons back. Looks like she is sailing for westeros next season, so it will be nice to see her enter the game of thrones.

    Overall: 7.5/10

  215. ney
    Posted June 8, 2012 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    “Valar Morghulis: All Men Must Die” …
    So far none of the main female characters have been killed… That would mean Arya (my favorite character) is going to be okay! right?

  216. Theon Rules!
    Posted June 8, 2012 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Garris: You have to admit that elimination of the entire Stark house is certainly the trend so far.But I don’t see Jon or Arya dying.

    Good catch on the ‘too far south’ thing, I missed that. I read somewhere that the stag and the wolf killing each other meant Robert and Ned would kill each other. Robert killed Ned by making him Hand. Ned killed Robert with his ‘mercy’ to Cersei.

    I’d agree. Arya and Jon are probably “untouchable” characters. I’d probably put Bran in there too seems how he has some pretty interesting things going on with his visions. In my opinion, Arya will join the “Brotherhood” that has been fighting against the crown this season, and I eventually think Jon will become a higher up within The Wildlings group.

    Robb, in my opinion, will be dead by the end of next season. As his mother said “Walder Frey is a very dangerous man to cross”. I don’t think he’ll take to kindly to being played a fool. I also think some of Robb’s army will take exception to him breaking his oath. Combine that with the fact that Tywin now has the Tyrells on his side, and it’s not looking good for Robb.

    Catelyn and Sansa could go either way. If Robb’s army falls, I don’t know how long Catelyn lasts. Although, with that Sansa/Littlefinger scene in the finale, a Sansa/Cat/Littlefinger sideplot would be cool. Perhaps Littlefinger exchanges Sansa for Cat’s word she will be his wife an rule Harrenhall? Now THAT would be cool. We all know how much he sweats Cat haha

  217. 3eyes
    Posted June 8, 2012 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    Newbie/fangirl here. First, thanks for this forum. Secondly, GoT is the best TV production I’ve ever seen, and I’m old enough to have watched the weekly playlets on Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, et al back in the day.
    Some thoughts on the story so far:
    Talisa is probably a honey trap set by Tywin (who couldn’t afford to send forces to the North) to sabotage Robb’s operation.
    By S2e9 I was expecting one or more of my favorite characters (Arya, Tyrion, Brienne) to be brutally murdered. Maester Luwin’s death caught me completely by surprise.
    Loved Brienne from the beginning, initially because of the ungainly way she walked and eventually for her inner as well as outer strength. Hoping she gets to be a Westeros legend.
    It does look as though the family Stark and their world are disintegrating. I think that Jaqen knew who Arya was all along, and furthermore was keeping an eye on her. At any rate, she referred to her brother in conversation with him at Harrenhal, so she may have come to trust him.
    I may have to start reading the books to get me through the approaching long Winter……

  218. Garris
    Posted June 8, 2012 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    JofreyMustDie: Posted June 7, 2012 at 11:06 pm | Permalink
    Sorry for the lateness of my reply. I was not as negative and critical as some of you about the season finale, but I did find some parts dissapointing. .

    You know I like to be critical here and there but overall I thought the episode was very good, probably the best of the season. It repeatedly surprised me, no more so than the last scene with the White Walker/zombie army though I thought that scene could have been done with more originality. It was also a very emotionally moving episode, no more so for me than when Maester Lewin died, he was one of my favorite characters.

    JofreyMustDie: Looks like Theon is getting taken back to the Iron Isles, itll be an interesting reunion with his father. They must have used the underground tunnels to escape Im thinking.

    Now I don’t see how Theon could possibly get home. Robb’s instructions to Bolton were that all Iron Islanders could go home unmolested except Theon so in order to avail themselves of that offer Theon’s crew will have to turn him over which is why I thought they knocked him out.

    JofreyMustDie: Westerlands Boring. Ok, Robb found himself a hot little wife, but if he focussed more on the war he probably would have won by now. I guess they are just trying to set up this conflict with Walder Frey for next season, when he cant return his army north for breaking his promise.

    Robb not only screwed himself but his whole army by screwing over Frey. He is likely to end up needing to retreat back across The Twins (Frey’s bridge) from a much larger Lannister-Tyrell army. I’m starting to think he’s as doomed as Ned was.

    JofreyMustDie: Qarth- Looks like she is sailing for westeros next season, so it will be nice to see her enter the game of thrones.

    Yes, Daenarys in Westeros would be very interesting. With Stannis surprisingly still alive, the only narrative purpose I can conceive for his character now is an alliance with Dany- it’s likely she would stop at Dragonstone first. Hmm, it just hit me what Stannis probably saw in the fire that made him so wide-eyed: dragons flying over King’s Landing. My earlier prediction that Dany would die in the desert and her dragons would somehow end up with Melisandre and Stannis might have been half right after all.

  219. Garris
    Posted June 8, 2012 at 11:34 pm | Permalink

    Theon Rules!: I’d agree. Arya and Jon are probably “untouchable” characters. I’d probably put Bran in there too seems how he has some pretty interesting things going on with his visions.

    Yes, right- how could I forget Bran? There are clues foreshadowing his future all the way back in the pilot episode.

    Theon Rules!: Robb, in my opinion, will be dead by the end of next season. As his mother said “Walder Frey is a very dangerous man to cross”. I don’t think he’ll take to kindly to being played a fool. I also think some of Robb’s army will take exception to him breaking his oath. Combine that with the fact that Tywin now has the Tyrells on his side, and it’s not looking good for Robb.

    Agree completely. Just the fact that The Twins are the only route to retreat north (at least in Robb’s earlier war planning they said it was the only way south) seems like enough to doom him and his whole army.

  220. Garris
    Posted June 8, 2012 at 11:58 pm | Permalink

    3eyes: Talisa is probably a honey trap set by Tywin (who couldn’t afford to send forces to the North) to sabotage Robb’s operation.

    Wow, I like that a lot. And all she has to do to doom Robb’s whole army is…. marry Robb. It fits perfectly with my growing premonition that he and his army are going to perish trapped between Tywin’s Lannister-Tyrell army and Frey’s closed bridge crossing. It also sounds just like something Tywin might do if he heard about the Stark-Frey deal, given what he once did to Tyrion involving a whore and marriage.

    3eyes: Loved Brienne from the beginning, initially because of the ungainly way she walked and eventually for her inner as well as outer strength. Hoping she gets to be a Westeros legend.

    She’s a cool character, no doubt. And, it just occurred to me, another narrative reason for Stannis to still be alive.

  221. Sinslash
    Posted June 9, 2012 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    I’m a book reader and I agree that BOOK READERS HAVE NO PLACE IN THESE NON-READER THREADS except be comment readers only. Even when people ask questions, they know they’re in a non-book reader thread, so they should only expect non-book readers to answer them (in that case they should not expect an accurate answer if they are asking details of future events). Book readers should not answer! Let non-book readers speculate among themselves please! All these non-book reader reactions and speculations is entertainment to some people, you know (like me, for example). I really hope non-book reader recaps will be purely non-book reader thread for next season.

  222. Garris
    Posted June 9, 2012 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    Sinslash: I’m a book reader and I agree that BOOK READERS HAVE NO PLACE IN THESE NON-READER THREADS except be comment readers only.

    Let me take a minute just to say thank you to the considerate majority of book readers out there like you who, though they sometimes get a terrible rap from a few assholes, continue to follow the rules of whatever newbie thread they post in or even better, read these newbie threads silently unless invited to comment, and in particular exercise enough self-restraint not to congratulate, berate, etc. newbies on our wacky theories and predictions, of which I post a lot. Part of the reason I’m still posting this late in mostly dried-up threads is because I’ve heard many book-readers say they are entertained by the clueless ranting of newbies and thus may still be reading. If book readers were chiming in with unwanted info every time I posted, I wouldn’t be posting.

  223. Kneeling Knight
    Posted June 10, 2012 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    Just a helpful hint, Ser Mandon (Guy who sliced Tyrion) is not a Gold CLoack. White cloak+very handsome armour (Ned’s words) = Kingsguard!

  224. Lord of Light
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 4:07 am | Permalink

    I keep watching the scene with Stannis and Melisandre over and over again. A thousand props to Stephen Dillane for putting so much emotion in that scene (and every other scene throughout the season). He really is exceptional in portraying Stannis’ tough, iron-like emotions. Grieving for Renly in both “The Ghost of Harrenhal” and this episode was so moving. I really think Stephen Dillane deserves an Emmy. He’s done such an extraordinary job painting the complex character that is Stannis Baratheon.

  1. [...] comments will contain spoilers. If you haven’t read ACoK yet, you can discuss this episode in our non-book reader recap. [...]


  • Recent Comments

  • Archives

    • 2014 (813)
    • 2013 (679)
    • 2012 (550)
    • 2011 (512)
    • 2010 (309)
    • 2009 (174)
    • 2008 (47)
  •