163 Comments

  • I have rum in for watching this tonight. I will sob if they have Luwin die tonight.

  • Alfie looking pretty bat**** crazy. I wonder what Dagmer plans to do with that spear he’s holding.

  • Just watched the MTV interview with Alfie and he teases about a character appearing that was in S1 but not in S2 (so far) in Dany’s story arc… Which i presume is Whitebeard and since the dragons are so tiny i have been thinking that he’ll be the one to actually “save the day” in HOTU.

  • edo:
    Alfie looking pretty bat**** crazy. I wonder what Dagmer plans to do with that spear he’s holding.

    It can be one of two very different things:

    1 .- It’s not a spear, but a flagpole and he intends to put the banners to furl.
    2.- It’s a spear or polearm and then FaBio’s theory about Dagmer=Reek gains a lot of weight.

  • With his hands both in the same direction I dont think its a spear

    That is how I grib a spear… your got a lot better control that way.

  • “WHAT IS DEAD MAY NEVER DIE!!!!!” Alfie looks so badasss….. cannot wait for tonight…….^_^

  • is it just me or is sam and them and the bottom of the fist? what is that rocky bit behind them?

  • Oi!:
    Just watched the MTV interview with Alfie and he teases about a character appearing that was in S1 but not in S2 (so far) in Dany’s story arc… Which i presume is Whitebeard and since the dragons are so tiny i have been thinking that he’ll be the one to actually “save the day” in HOTU.

    Oooooooo, I hope so!

    Although, I think a few story lines will be left hanging, particularly Dany’s. Will she get her dragons back? Will it be with fire and blood?? Will temper tantrums erupt??? HOTU is the thing I am most looking forward to tonight.

    Well, that and Brienne tossing around some serious badassery.

    edo,

    Theon does look bat**** crazy. My immediate thought on seeing that was “holy crap, FaBio is right!” But, does anyone else think that the black and gold in the upper right hand corner is part of the Greyjoy banner?

    Also, SAM!!! Just love that “huh, whaaaaa” expression on his face.

  • Assunta,

    it is not a banner. it is one of those things that holds a small fire … i dont know the english word… it is out of focus, so it took me a couple of moments to figure out if it is a banner or smth else.

  • alex: Assunta, it is not a banner. it is one of those things that holds a small fire … i dont know the english word… it is out of focus, so it took me a couple of moments to figure out if it is a banner or smth else.

    A torch? :)
    BTW did anyone else think that Joff looks a bit like the devil in that pic? XD

  • Christoffer Larsson,

    thats the same thing im hoping cuase seeing that they show that brans alive already only way im a be plz if in the fianl moment s they blow the horn 3 times or john get to see mance radiers camp with the gaints an shit

  • It sounds stupid, but Joffrey wears his crown like a royal douchebag arsehole. All pushed forward arrogantly

  • Christoffer Larsson:
    hmm so we will see samwell again? so we might expect that the season will end with the white walkers attacking the camp!

    The last track on the soundtrack is called Three Blasts.

  • Today’s Toronto Star mentions GoT in its “Five Worth Watching” column, and the last line says: “The good news is that the series, HBO Canada’s most watched to date, will be back for Season 3”. I know the US ratings get talked about a lot, but has anyone followed the Canadian ratings to confirm that this true in Canada? Because that’s awesome.

  • I’m sorry, maybe I missed it. But can somebody please explain how this “Dagmer=Ramsay” theory makes any kind of sense at all? Aside from him, instead of Reek, sort of acting as the devil on Theon’s shoulder, how does it make any sense?

  • Adrian:
    I’m sorry, maybe I missed it.But can somebody please explain how this “Dagmer=Ramsay” theory makes any kind of sense at all?Aside from him, instead of Reek, sort of acting as the devil on Theon’s shoulder, how does it make any sense?

    It doesn’t.

  • Assunta: Oooooooo, I hope so!

    Although, I think a few story lines will be left hanging, particularly Dany’s.Will she get her dragons back? Will it be with fire and blood?? Will temper tantrums erupt???HOTU is the thing I am most looking forward to tonight.

    Well, that and Brienne tossing around some serious badassery.

    edo,

    Theon does look bat**** crazy.My immediate thought on seeing that was “holy crap, FaBio is right!”But, does anyone else think that the black and gold in the upper right hand corner is part of the Greyjoy banner?

    Also, SAM!!!Just love that “huh, whaaaaa” expression on his face.

    Second the prediction of Selmy/Whitebeard being introduced, I believe his reappearance was being foreshadowed in Ep. 8 when Jaime told Alton in the pen the story of squiring for him as a youth.

    Also, was anybody else a little thrown off by the brief shots of Brienne and Jaime in this episode? The bodies hanging from nooses freaked me out. Are they going to encounter the Brotherhood Without Banners, or are they stumbling upon the Brave Companions?

  • I think there is enough evidence to safely assume the season will end with the attack on the fist, but does anyone know/ think we will get to see Mance Rayders camp tonight? I think that would be an amazing way to end Jons season.

  • Even if Dagmer attacks Theon, that does not mean he is Ramsay. It could be that Ramsay turns up, makes the offer for all Ironborn to be let go except Theon, Theon rallies his men to fight, but Dagmer decides he doesn’t want to die and betrays Theon. Then Ramsay kills them all anyway.

  • If that is a torch Dagmar is holding, has anyone thought that it might be Theon putting the torch to Winterfell?

  • John Pearl,

    At some point in Storm of Swords they come across a bunch of hanged people, and Brienne is all disgusted by it, and then they see the sign “They lay with Lions” and realises that it was the Starks, not the Lannisters, that did it. It was just near an abandoned Inn or something. They might find the Brave Companions this episode, or it could just be that random group of outlaws that killed Cleos.

  • Anvil: eason will end with the attack on the fist, but does anyone know/ think we will get to see Mance Rayders camp tonight? I think that would be an amazing way to end Jons season.

    I figured. So it’s just as I thought and it’s just another one of those changes some people think will be made for absolutely no rational reason. Like when I saw people suggesting Bronn would be the one to try to kill Tyrion instead of Moore, just because “Bronn doesn’t really have much to do after the Blackwater.” Bronn, people? Really?

  • wow, I really like that shot of Joffrey – he actually looks very cool – like a classic epic fantasy character in that pose, dressed that way, perched on the stairs. That’s one of the best pictures of him I’ve ever seen.

    Here’s what I am hoping for tonight:

    Jaqen’s face gives us a flash of Syrio as he is morphing, or morphs in to Syrio ( a bit much to hope for!)

    Harry Lloyd makes a surprise cameo as Rhaeghar in the House of the Undying.

  • I really hope that we don’t see Mance’s camp tonight, and I don’t think we will. There is plenty to fit in as it is. Besides, that would make for a nice establishing shot in episode 21 or 22.

  • Anyone think it’s possible that a certain beloved character, Maester Luwin, will live in the series despite being killed in the books? Already he’s passed the point where he would have died. And the show certainly hasn’t been shy about mixing up the deaths.

    That would make me very happy.

  • Eleanor:
    Anyone think it’s possible that a certain beloved character, Maester Luwin, will live in the series despite being killed in the books? Already he’s passed the point where he would have died. And the show certainly hasn’t been shy about mixing up the deaths.

    That would make me very happy.

    I sort of hope so too, although the preview quote sounds pretty ominous. Theres really no reason he has to die at this point, plus I think he could be a pretty nice way to add exposition in what is going to be a pretty bare Bran storyline.

  • purplejilly,

    Don’t you think that having Harry Llyod playing Rhaegar would be incredibly confusing to non-readers (and some readers as well)? There would have to be some terribly clumsy dialogue just to make it evident that it was Rhaegar (“It’s Rhaegar, my brother who was killed blah blah blah…”), and even then a lot of new viewers would be very confused.

    Besides, what purpose would it serve? Viserys and Rhaegar were brothers, but not twins. I personally hope they keep the visions to a minimum. Some things work well on the page, but not as much on screen.

    Eleanor,

    I would be really glad to see him live, but I don’t know what the hell they would do with him going forward. Since the Reeds are now confirmed for season 3, there isn’t much of a reason for him to head north with Bran and Rickon. Sadly, I think he’s done for (and I will probably cry a bit).

  • I think it would be pretty hard to show characters like Lyannna and Rhaegar without it being confusing, even if you say there names etc. I don’t hink non book readers would be able to follow at all.

  • Default King:
    purplejilly,

    Don’t you think that having Harry Llyod playing Rhaegar would be incredibly confusing to non-readers (and some readers as well)? There would have to be some terribly clumsy dialogue just to make it evident that it was Rhaegar (“It’s Rhaegar, my brother who was killed blah blah blah…”), and even then a lot of new viewers would be very confused.

    Besides, what purpose would it serve? Viserys and Rhaegar were brothers, but not twins. I personally hope they keep the visions to a minimum. Some things work well on the page, but not as much on screen.

    It would indeed be extremely confusing, and if they did show Rhaegar, it should be some other actor. Some things really work better on the page, but I disagree with you on keeping the visions to a minimum. They should adapt things so it won’t look too weird on screen, but the visions are really important for Dany’s storyline (and for the general future of the story, even if only as speculation material) and personally I hope they don’t turn the whole thing into just some three shots of indiscernible faces and blue smoke.

  • Eleanor,

    Forgive me if i’m misremembering, but we’re just getting to the point where he would have died. If memory serves, he was killed (Well, gravely wounded) during Boltons sack of Winterfell, along with all the Ironmen. Right up until the end, he was counseling Theon, telling him to take the black, before Ramsay showed up. So, I assume it will go down just as it did in the books. The question is whether or not that will be this episode.

  • House Snow:
    I think it would be pretty hard to show characters like Lyannna and Rhaegar without it being confusing, even if you say there names etc.I don’t hink non book readers would be able to follow at all.

    But in the book it’s Ser Jorah who explains to her afterwards (when she tells him what she saw) that Rhaegar had a silver harp and a son named Aegon, was married to Elia, etc. it could easily be done in the show just as well.

  • Valyrian,

    I agree. I’m not hoping for the visions to be cut entirely by any means. Otherwise, what point does the HOTU have? I just hope they keep it relatively brief and show only what’s important. The scene could get bogged down in the wrong kind of weirdness really easily. As you say, it needs to be more than just smoke and faces, but I don’t think it can be a 10 minute long acid trip either. “Fear and Loathing in Qarth” might make a good spinoff though. :)

  • lol Maestar Luwin living. what folly! Osha is in the godswood holding a knife. she obviously gives the gift of mercy to him in the godswood.

  • Valyrian: But in the book it’s Ser Jorah who explains to her afterwards (when she tells him what she saw) that Rhaegar had a silver harp and a son named Aegon, was married to Elia, etc. it could easily be done in the show just as well.

    True although doing it that way would be kind of wierd too, not that they are above turning people into exposition machines

  • robb17,

    Is that how it goes down in the book? I’m about 3/4 of the way into a re-read of ACOK, and I have no memory of how he actually dies. Also you might want to tag that spoiler.

  • Default King:
    Valyrian,

    I agree. I’m not hoping for the visions to be cut entirely by any means. Otherwise, what point does the HOTU have? I just hope they keep it relatively brief and show only what’s important. The scene could get bogged down in the wrong kind of weirdness really easily. As you say, it needs to be more than just smoke and faces, but I don’t think it can be a 10 minute long acid trip either. “Fear and Loathing in Qarth” might make a good spinoff though. :)

    It’s true, there’s definitely a LOT of the wrong kind of weirdness, I never got the room with the naked woman and the little men, I mean, WTF?

  • Maybe the last advice of Luwin is for Bran, he certainly knows that the Northern Lord Eddard Stark trusted the most was Howland Reed, and tells Osha to lead the boys to the Neck after Winterfell is sacked. A pretty good way to introduce the Reeds in Season 3.

  • Valyrian,

    Haha. Yeah, that’s exactly the sort of thing I’m talking about. Though who knows, maybe that room will end up being the key to understanding everything by the end of the series. ;)

  • Is there some kind of spam blocker if I include links? I’ve tried telling everyone the official cookbook was released last week but the site keeps eating my comments. Anyway it’s on Amazon, called A Feast of Ice and Fire, you can find it yourself. I got mine on my iPad.

    I recommend you try the Inn at the Crossroads blog for your Westeros themed food. They are the authors of the book, and they take the food actually described in the novels by GRRM and cook it. This includes some crazy stuff like honeyed locusts and cream swans, but has much more normal things like lemoncakes and fingerfish.

    I’ve made some things from the blog before and they turned out well. I’m planning to make the Dornish duck with lemon glaze next week, it looks like it will be sweet and spicy.

  • Notice that Joffrey is becoming more and more Lannister and less and less Baratheon — but he looks very pretty in his new duds.

  • Valyrian:
    Default King,
    No, he dies of his own accord, just after he tells them the princes must split.

    No, Osha gives him the gift of mercy.
    “I beg . . .” The maester swallowed. “. . . a . . . a drink of water . . . and . . . another boon. If you would . . .”
    “Aye.” She turned to Meera. “Take the boys.”

    Random question: Did anyone ever find out who played Ser Mandon?

  • the goat,

    If you mean actor: GoT Wiki tells me he was an unidentified extra until Blackwater, and played by James Doran in that episode itself. Could be completely false, though.

  • Adrian: I figured.So it’s just as I thought and it’s just another one of those changes some people think will be made for absolutely no rational reason.Like when I saw people suggesting Bronn would be the one to try to kill Tyrion instead of Moore, just because “Bronn doesn’t really have much to do after the Blackwater.”Bronn, people?Really?

    I think it is some form of charming desperation to make some sense of changed plots and characters, clinging on the plot points of the novels and the knowledge of how it is supposed to play out and to make connections where none are really present.

    Dagmer is not the Dagmer Cleftjaw from the books, that’s true, but I don’t see how this makes him Ramsay. His scratched off sigil on his armour could easily be the result of fighting the guards of Winterfell. The hooded figure leaving the barn before Dagmer shows up is in fact (watched it in 1080i) an aubrun haired woman (I suppose it’s Dagmer in disguise ;)). Dagmer is the devil on Theons shoulder because Theon is not exactly the asshole from the books.

    But I’m a strong believer in the Daario=Euron theory. They’re never in the same place together but both have the same goal. I mean, that must count for something. They have to be the same person. And now prove me wrong.

    Just kidding.

  • They built up the House of the Undying all season. Unfortunately, it appears as though there will be no prophecies or visions. I don’t really see the point of the place without them. Now when stuff pops up in future seasons(‘Aegon’ being the mummer’s dragon and possibly Jon being AA reborn/tPwwP) non-bookies will be even more confused. There was the potential to create a lot of discussion amongst non-readers speculating about some of that stuff.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap:
    They built up the House of the Undying all season. Unfortunately, it appears as though there will be no prophecies or visions.I don’t really see the point of the place without them. Now when stuff pops up in future seasons(‘Aegon’ being the mummer’s dragon and possibly Jon being AA reborn/tPwwP) non-bookies will be even more confused.There was the potential to create a lot of discussion amongst non-readers speculating about some of that stuff.

    He said no Rheagar, not no visions or prophesies. Not the same thing

  • Valyrian,

    Good point.

    I hope they do show the visions. It may be confusing to non-book readers but it adds a layer to the story that is significant later when everyone goes, “Ahhhh, THAT’S why such and such in so in so said this and that”.

  • Lucazzy: All I want to know is if we will see Stannis’s end of the aftermath now or in season 3.

    Liam Cunningham said in an interview that he filmed a scene where Davos is thrown in a cell by Mel so at least some of his ASoS story is in this season, I presume we will see Stannis as well.

  • Adrian,

    Probably you should mark as spoiler your post, for non-readers sake. Of the trhee names you mention, two haven’t been introduced so far. Anyway, hat secret identity thing theory of FaBio, as you point out, makes absolutely no sense:

    So, he infiltrated between the Ironladers in the off chance that somehow that would give him a chance to help Bolton’s agenda? Is he a psychic now? How long has he being there? We know the Ironlanders don’t look too kind in foreigners, so how he’s managed to rise in the ranks to be first mate in a ship. That would mean years. Are you telling me that somehow, Lord Bolton, or maybe Ramsay by himself, predicted ages in advance the naming of Ned Stark as Hand of the King, his fall and execution and the war against the Iron Throne that would leave the North unguarded and ripe to an attack of the Iron Islands that might or not happen?

    And not satisfied with having foreseen all this, he still had the power to know that Theon would head the Iron Islands and align himself with the Greyjoy sand then make sure he is the one to be assignated fist mate in Theon’s ship, so he could sway him to attack Winterfell?

    Move over, Red priest and priestess; stand aside Mirri, Quaithe and Jojen; be humbled Ghost of High Heart, Maggy and Patchfaced. Bow down all you sorry excuse of fortune tellers and hail Ransay snow, soon to be Bolton, the real True Eye of Westeros, Essos and the Unseen Lands!

    Or we can follow the logic (?) of FaBio and think that Ramsay headed the Iron Islands once he found out that Theon was coming to Pyke and he managed to sneak his way into the first mate position, no one the wiser. First mate is the guy directly responsible of the discipline in a ship, and having witnessed how unruly and devil-may-care Theon’s crew is, we are still supposed to believe that this unknown not-ironman guy with not-proven sailorship skills can keep them in line during the expedition, just because. That, after just seeing Yara showing Theon what a difference makes to the krakens being led by a leader who had earned their trust.

    Leaving plot’s inconsistencies aside, we have the fact that there’s no way Dramer can pass as a son of the actor cast as Lord Bolton. And the show has specifically pointed out that the Bastard of Deadford is Bolton’s son. If D & D they really wanted to go the Dalmer=Ramsay rout, they would have made him a illegitimate brother of Lord Bolton instead his son. Plotwise that would change anything. Since Bolton have no natural sons, a bastard brother makes as good an heir, as a bastard son, once legitimized.

    Now, all of this doesn’t mean that Dagmer won’t betray Theon. He still can do it. We have seen he’s very pragmatic, with loose morals, not scruples, and even, I’d say, a penchant for cruelty (He looked particularly pleased when Theon was beating that Ironmen sentry). With the odds clearly against them I woudn’t be surprised if he struck a deal to handle Winterfell and Theon to the Bastard of Dreadford.

  • DagmerNotReek: Even if Dagmer attacks Theon, that does not mean he is Ramsay. It could be that Ramsay turns up, makes the offer for all Ironborn to be let go except Theon, Theon rallies his men to fight, but Dagmer decides he doesn’t want to die and betrays Theon. Then Ramsay kills them all anyway.

    That’s the way I see things playing out.

  • The sacrifice of Maester Luwin is actually pretty important to the story, IMO: i.e. a Maester is sacrificed by a wildling to the Old Gods in the Stark’s Godswood in the presence of Bran. Though unintentional, it seems pretty symbolic, if you ask me.

    But still, I’m surprised they’d burn Winterfell without properly introducing Ramsay’s character. Seems a little anti-climatic. Plus, if they have Theon burn it, that could create a Butterfly Effect down the road, when Wyman Manderly finds out the truth about the Boltons.

    As for the character from Dany’s past, could it be Ned? I think I remember reading something last season that said Sean Bean would be back for 1 episode this season (although, I could’ve been hallucinating, I suppose). If she does, my guess is Dany will see a vision of him entering the Throne Room to find Jaime sitting the Iron Throne. Of course, I’m probably wrong about that. The common consensus seems to be for Barristan/Arstan to show up early, which would make sense.

    In any case, I’m super-stoked for tonight’s finale. It will be interesting to see how they tie up all the loose ends.

    PS: Joffrey – Like a boss!

  • House Snow,

    What is the point of any visions/prophecies without the most significant ones? My expectations are lowered, to say the least.

  • If Dany has any visions in the HOTU, I strongly believe that they will be of Khal Drogo (I’ve read several rumors on these boards that claim Jason Momoa was on set – though he could have just been visiting) and possibly of her grown-up son, Rhaego (from the HOTU chapter, one of Dany’s visions is of “a tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him”). That would be relatively easy to pull off, and easier for new viewers to understand than introducing Rhaegar, Elia, Aegon and/or Lyanna.

    It would also provide an easy explanation for why Dany might find the visions entrancing. Since D&D are hammering hard on the whole “the dragons are my children!” angle, they could create some good thematic resonance by having the Undying play on Dany’s guilt about the loss of her true child – “Here is your family, your husband and your son. Stay here with them … FOREVER”. That could create a suitable amount of dramatic tension and emotional angst for Emilia Clarke to play with before Dany comes to her senses and Drogon torches the place.

    Of course, I would much prefer that we get to see Rhaegar, The Prince That Was Promised, foreshadowing of the Red Wedding and Azor Ahai, the blue flower growing from a chink in the wall of ice, hints of R+L=J and all that great stuff. At this point, however, I’ll happily take whatever they give us.

    Regardless of how much we see in the HOTU, I think the finale will be fantastic. And I feel fairly confident that at the very least, we’ll get to see Ser Barristan Selmy tonight. I think that they set up his return well with Jaime’s story back in episode 7.

  • Assunta,

    I don’t know. After reading and hearing numerous instances of people still thinking at the beginning of the second season that Theon was a Stark, despise the showrunners hammering his origin and predicament through S1 or people not being able to identify what a Kingsguard is, or relate both Mormont, or thinking Aerys and Raeghal are one and the same, or wondering “who is that kid with Cercei in the Iron Throne”, or the Greyjoys rebelled against Ned Stark, instead the Kingdom as a whole, or any other of the numerous things that I notice they aren’t able to get a grasp on even after being told through the course of the series, my faith in the non-reader portion of the audience had waned dramatically. I seriously doubt that any prophetic vision we could see in the HoU tonight is gonna be remembered once the truth of tha vision gets revealed futher down the line.

  • I’m seriously worried that there’s not going to be enough Dany tonight. People have been complaining, with validity, that her storyline has been a lot of wheel-spinning this season. She needs to have a major chunk of screentime in the House of the Undying to make it pay off properly. If the season ends, as I fear, with her still in the House, that’s going to be incredibly bad pacing. If they’re going to chop up the HotU across more than one episode, they could have had her enter two weeks ago instead of giving us a time-killing MY DRAGONS scene.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Yeah, they’ll probably only showthe naked lady being raped by 4 men, because hey, boobies! Yeah, my excitement for HotU has been considerably lowered too.

  • Dennai,

    Good point. I guess my hope is that they don’t play to the lowest common denominator. Complexity of plot and the depth/shades of character development are two of my favorite things about both the books and the show.

  • Just tuning in, here. Where is the info coming from about [spoiler] no Rhaegar, Lyanna, ToJ, blue rose in the wall, etc. in HOTU? [/spoiler] Is that all just rumors/fears, or is there actually factual info out there somewhere?

  • iheartseverus:
    Just tuning in, here.Where is the info coming from about no Rhaegar, Lyanna, ToJ, blue rose in the wall, etc. in HOTU?Is that all just rumors/fears, or is there actually factual info out there somewhere?

    There is a guy who has been correct with his info all season who posted it in the preview thread for this episode. He has been proven reliable.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap: There is a guy who has been correct with his info all season who posted it in the preview thread for this episode. He has been proven reliable.

    Thanks. Bummer!

  • Calling Gate of the Undying riiiight now…just in case.

    I won’t be a part of it, unless it’s a complete mess, and the show hasn’t hit that point yet.

  • Dennai: or people not being able to identify what a Kingsguard is

    To be honest I don’t think they’ve got this across all that well. There’s no mention (apart from when Renly is putting his together) that the Order is limited to Seven (and we even see Nine of them together in one scene) or that their sole duty is to guard the King/Royal family or that they take a vow of Celibacy.

    Then the Hound is made a Kingsguard but apart from one scene never wears the Kingsguard armour so people don’t realise he is a member.

  • Dennai,

    I say Dagmer and his boys are going to get flayed and Ramsay will be wearing Dagmer’s skin to inflitrate Winterfell. All they have to show is the actor throw off his “mask” and scare the living bejeezus out of Theon.

  • ThePinkDragon,

    I’m disappointed, but I did sort of expect that they’d downplay the visions/prophecies in the show. What works in print doesn’t always translate well to screen.

  • The vision in the HOTU I think that would be most interesting is to non-readers is the wolf’s head on a human body sitting on the throne. While readers know it foreshadows the RW, non-readers might think it a prophecy that one of the Starks will take the throne.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Oh, no, the people in this thread are being pretty clear-minded and rational about it.

    The crazies come out in the recap posts, and if HOTU is anything short of perfect, I’m almost positive we’re going to get a Gate, unfortunately. :/

  • Dennai,

    I’m sure many non-reader fans have a great grasp what is going on. I know several and have read unspoiled message boards on the internet. But there are some, probably the same demographic in which D&D/HBO work so hard to give the show gratuitous nudity for who are not looking for nuance. As long as they get their bloody, sexy mediaeval ‘epicness’ than important plot threads and symbolism be damned. Many of them probably feel that to be intellectually/emotionally invested into the story is ridiculous when all they want is their blood and guts, T & A.

  • Joshua Taylor,

    Are you being serious? Because that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, no offense. You can’t just flay someone and wear their skin like a convincing mask. The Boltons aren’t Faceless Men after all.

  • I always thought they should do the HotU visions in a cartoony/blurry/out of focus/stylized fashion. She is tripping, obviously, and distortion of visuals or perception makes sense, and of course she doesn’t know who the people in her visions are or whether they are literal people or symbolic – nor should viewers beyond a stylized representation.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap,

    The only thing that matters for the TV series is that Dany is trapped in the HotU and that Drogon burns the mother effer down to save her.

    All the prophecies and visions would be WAY to complicated to understand for the TV Viewers. They’re complicated in the books, and most of it you cant show on film and get the same effect, without an articulated explanation. (i.e. Most viewers didn’t even recognize Loras at the end of Blackwater, let alone the fact that he was wearing Renly’s armour.)

    You have to understand that, with storytelling for Film, EVERYTHING has to be visual, and its simply too fast paced a medium for something so intricate. There’s no going back and re-reading over and over to make sense of it all. If they tried to do the visions and prophecies in a way that would do the book justice, 90% of people watching wouldn’t understand it and would be left feeling clueless and stupid, which is a great way to lose viewers.

    Unfortunately for some, the show was not made for the book-readers alone. It was made for the television viewing public. With that in mind, as long as it is suspenseful, visually intriguing, and comes to a logical acceptable conclusion (Drogon burning that b to the ground), it will be a success.

    I look forward to seeing it as much as i have looked forward to many of my favorite aCoK moments from this season.

    Oh and did everyone forget : JON SNOW versus THE HALFHAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cant wait for that! should be stellar.

  • When did the Dagmer – Reek theory come to be? I tought it was mentioned long before FaBio mentioned it

  • Here’s how I would do the prophecies, keeping them relatively cost-effective but still amply creepy and pertinent:

    Basically, Dany keeps walking into a million rooms of totally different styles — some dungeons, some bedrooms, some lavishly furnished corridors, some even opening up to a magical little bubble of the outdoors or a whole view of a city. And in each one, there’s a copy of a different warlock standing there, and each speaks a prophecy.

    “There was a king, once, who would have burned his kingdom down, so others could not possess it.”
    “There would have been a son, fair of hair but copper-skinned, under a banner of a flaming stallion.”
    “There will be a king with the head of a wolf, sitting dead upon a throne.”
    “Three mounts you must ride — three fires you must light — three treasons you will know –”

    And she’s all fucked up over this like any rational person would be, so she enters the maze of rooms faster, trying to get out —

    “A blue rose growing from an ice wall, Khaleesi!”
    “A corpse at the prow of a ship — can you not see his grey lips smiling?”
    “Ten thousand slaves will call you mother.”

    Even faster now

    “His name was Aegon”
    “what better name for a king”
    ” beware the mummer’s dragon
    “the dragon has three heads ”
    “will he have a song?”
    ” Mother of dragons! Slayer of lies!”

    Then there’s Pyat Pree in the room with the dragons:
    “AND HIS WILL BE THE SONG OF ICE AND FIRE.” Fucked-up Dany has had enough; then commences the dragon-saving.

    Or something. But I’m also not in show biz, and know nothing about it. In all actuality that would confuse the non-bookies even more, so nevermind. lol!

  • I really hope Whitebeard makes an appearence.

    If Dagmer is Ramsey then why the hell was he at Pyke ?

  • 1. Wow, Theon, crazy eyes much? I’m sure Alfie Allen will knock it out of the park again.
    2. Erm… Emilia Clarke, have I mentioned how gorgeous you are recently? I have such a girl crush on her…
    3. Jack Gleeson is just incredible at playing that little shit. Speaking of, I hope Tywin’s horse takes a dump at the foot of those stairs like he does in ACOK.
    4. Is that the fist? I have had my fingers crossed that the season ends with the three horn blasts, pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease?
    5.Will Luwin die in the godswood then? I hope they don’t change that, it’s such a moving scene.

    THE SEASON CAN’T BE OVER ALREADY WHAT AM I GOING TO DO WITH MYSELF?!

  • Joshua Taylor,

    Hannibal Lecter was just laying there pretending to be dead, not walking around and interacting with people. I would bet almost anything that Dagmer is just Dagmer. The Dagmer = Ramsey theory is unworkable for all the reasons outlined above by Dennai. The number of plot holes that would be caused by such a twist boggles the mind. The writers just aren’t that sloppy.

  • Skipjack,

    Ordered it too but from The Book Depository. Also got my “I always wanted to be a Wizard” T-Shirt. Old geek here <<<

  • People are still clinging onto the Dagmer = Ramsay theory?

    Explain this bullshit.jpg

  • As much as I hate Joffrey… gotta say, he looks pretty bad ass in that pic. They’ve done an amazing job with all his costumes/armour/etc.

  • Emilia Clarke said in an interview that readers would not be disappointed with the culmination of her plot arc this season. It is tough to see how that could happen without prophetic visions of the future, but perhaps it is possible.

    The only possible visions that the room-temp-IQ TV viewers would have a hellbound snowball’s chance of understanding would need to be visions not of the future but of the past, of characters they already know, like Viserys and Drogo. She wouldn’t see somebody she didn’t already know. But why would readers get all happy with that instead of the other stuff? I don’ty see how this would be the place to stick the shots of Aerys’s torture-executions of Rickard and Brandon that we knew they shot, either. Why would Dany care?

    It is hard to see how Drogon, the little pipsqueak firestarter who looks like those glorified crème brûlée torchers, will ever manage to be big enough to torch the entire House of the Undying. Perhaps he and his brethren have magically jumpstarted their growth spurt under the warlocks’ “care”. But that surely isn’t in the book.

    And then of course there’s the Xaro’s plot-preggers treasure vault. They spent way too much time and money on it for Chekhov’s Vault not to have some big payoff. And that isn’t in the book either.

    So I really, really, really wonder what Emilia Clarke might have been referring to after all? I can’t see anything that can possibly make sense. Do you really think even a triumphant return of an uncloaked Barristan the Bold could be what she’s talking about? I don’t.

  • Can’t believe it’s over after tonight. So bittersweet. Most excited for Jon/Theon/Dany tonight. Reading the comments has me really looking forward to the HOTU. I’d love to see some Rhaegar.

  • Epicurean:
    Emilia Clarke said in an interview that readers would not be disappointed with the culmination of her plot arc this season.

    Even if she thought the episode was total garbage, I can’t really see her saying anything other than what she did.

    In no way do I think tonight’s episode will be total garbage, I’m just pointing out that someone as closely involved with the show as Clarke is has very little motivation to say anything critical about it, especially before it airs.

    She’s promoting her television show. It’s to be expected, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that. I don’t think there is much of a reason to look for hidden meaning in that statement.

  • Valyrian,

    In general I would agree about not reusing actors. But in this specific case, depending on how it’s done (if done at all), it could work (of course, so could using a new actor with the right look). All these visions are through Dany’s eyes. They’re not necessarily exact. She needs to recognise the man as her brother, and after mistaking him for Viserys realise it’s Rhaegar. Dany never met Rhaegar (or her parents etc)- she’d imagine him as an older, stronger, less arseholeish version of Viserys.

    I do hope we get at least Drogo, Rhaego, RW foreshadowing (but looking like a hint of a Stark king existing instead of showing the trouble he gets into) and the prophecies in 3s. Anything else I’d call a very welcome bonus. I’d love it if a certain scene from the first series that was shot but not aired ended up in there, but suspect otherwise.

  • Epicurean: like those glorified crème brûlée torchers,

    hey, those are really really really useful.
    I no longer know what to think about what they´ll do with certain famous scenes from the books. Which is good, I think.

  • god, I hope they don’t cock up the house of the undying…I’ve got this horrible feeling…have faith in Dave and Dan….have faith

  • Christoffer Larsson,

    The last song on the season 2 soundtrack is called “Three Blasts” so I too am anticipating an attack by wights/Others on the fist of the first men. Very little reason to show the obsidian blades in episode 8 if not.

  • They obviously have to make some changes to or leave out some of the visions at the HOTU, as some would be incredibly spoilery, and some would make absolutely no sense on TV. I don’t see why people are surprised or worked up over it. I just hope it is good and entertaining.

  • I really do hope we get some visions in the HOTU. I like the idea of showing visions of characters of the past so viewers don’t get confused. If the rumor that Ned makes a cameo is true then perhaps Dany will see Ned in a room sitting next to a woman lying in a bed. The woman is wearing a garland of blue roses. Ned says “Lyanna”. Lyanna responds back with “Promise me, Ned”. This could work because Season 1 did a good job of establishing Lyanna as Ned’s sister and Robert’s “true” love for the viewers.

  • Ryan E,

    At some point you would think they would bring the ‘Prince who was Promised’ prophecy into the show. ‘The House of the Undying’ seemed like the perfect place to do that. I’m assuming they’ll just introduce it with Melisandre and keep it simply as ‘The Lord/Warrior of Light’.

  • m3shwerks,

    I don’t expect any foreshadowing to R+L=J. In fact, with the changes to the show, I’m beginning to question if that was all simply GRRM trolling us by using it as a red herring.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap: Ryan E, At some point you would think they would bring the ‘Prince who was Promised’ prophecy into the show. ‘The House of the Undying’ seemed like the perfect place to do that. I’m assuming they’ll just introduce it with Melisandre and keep it simply as ‘The Lord/Warrior of Light’.

    I agree. I think it would be out of place and confusing coming out of nowhere at the end of the 2nd season, to a character halfway across the world.

  • Dennai,

    Well I always said my “Dagmer-is-Ramsay” spitball is of the “low percentage” variety. But you’ve inspired me to break it down, ser!

    So here we go. Based on past episodes, I’m going to say:

    Dagmer betrays Theon: 87%

    Because I just don’t see Theon inspiring loyalty from anyone at all.
    If THAT’S the case…

    Dagmer has been secretly working for Ramsay all along: 12%
    Dagmer has been secretly working for Ramsay, but only recently: 18%
    Dagmer does a last minute save-his-own-life betrayal: 44%
    Dagmer IS Ramsay: 11%
    We don’t find out the motivations at all and these questions are left unanswered: 15%

    The end result?
    Dagmer dies at the hands of the Boltons: 36%
    Dagmer dies at the hands of Theon: 24%
    Dagmer lives: 30%
    Mystery: 10%

    Theon lives: 3%
    Theon dies: 3%
    Mystery: 94%

    Chance we’ll actually meet Ramsay Bolton and see his face: 1.853479%

  • Uh-oh, I hope Theon didn’t give Osha the Egyptian ‘flu. The way her left hand is hidden makes me wonder if she’s at all worried about that.

  • Ryan E,

    You’re probably right, though since said character is one of the main candidates for being that ‘prince’ it’s not entirely out of place.

  • Fire And Blood,

    Must agree with your deductions here. Still, there’s the small matter of Ramsay “Ralph Ineson” Bolton being a few years older than his supposed father, Roose “Michael McElhatton” Bolton…

  • Tyrion and Varys’s conversation in Blackwater re: The old powers; ‘curses, blood spells, shape-shifting’ really make me think we’ll see Jaqen transform this week. Why else would they mention it?

    And I’m sure it won’t happen, but my dream for HoTU would be : Sean Bean making a cameo for ToJ.

  • Epicurean: I don’ty see how this would be the place to stick the shots of Aerys’s torture-executions of Rickard and Brandon that we knew they shot, either. Why would Dany care?

    Because all her life she has thought that the so-called madness of Aerys was just a lie created by Robert to justify usurping his throne, and it’s important part of her character arc when she is confronted with the fact that it was true after all. It would be somewhat different than the way it happened in the books, where she learned this from Barristan later on, towards the end of SOS, but it could work.

  • Jaime Lannister:
    Fire And Blood,

    Must agree with your deductions here. Still, there’s the small matter of Ramsay “Ralph Ineson” Bolton being a few years older than his supposed father, Roose “Michael McElhatton” Bolton…

    Is that true, Ive seen it posted except I think the age thats gets posted (37 yo) is a diffenent person with the same name. I would be shocked to find McElhatton is younger then 40. Does someone have a link to his age?

  • Jambo,

    the name of the episode is “Valar Morghulis”, so Jaqen will definently be making one last appearance. I wonder if they’ve kept the iron coin?

  • Joffrey is one of my favorite characters — not even trolling.

    Every scene he is in is awesome. I also find him hilarious. He looks like such a boss in that picture

  • Fire And Blood,

    “Low percentage” spitball or not, you still don’t address why Ramsay would have recruited someone from the Iron Islands at all. It’s the main thing about this whole DagRam theory that doesn’t make any sense to me.

    I agree that Dagmer may well betray Theon, but I don’t see how he could be connected to the Boltons without some serious leaps in logic.

  • Default King,

    I think the thinking behind the theory is that he was on the boat Theon took to the iron islands, sent by his father (assumes Dagmer/Ramsey was in Robbs camp) b/c he didn’t really trust the Greyjoy and perhaps even anticipated what might happen. I don’t think its any more convoluted then the way it went down in the book, but a lot of circumstatial evidence in the press and in the episode two weeks ago starts to make it less likely now.

  • Default King,

    Well, we won’t know ’til the show tells us. We go on the assumption that everything is as close to the books as it can possibly be, yet here we have Dagmer essentially playing the role of Reek (trusted advisor to Theon) that he did not play in the books. Show Dagmer is absolutely nothing like book Dagmer.

    I agree it doesn’t make much sense at all. But from a storytelling standpoint, having Theon’s closest ally betray him makes for a better story. As to the hows and whys… well, if it happens, hopefully the show will have a logical explanation to give us.

    I’m still waiting for the “Stannis was expecting a son out of this arrangement” explanation. But I ain’t holding my breath.

  • Just saw Snow White and the Huntsman. Charlize Theron played an excellent Cersei Lannister

  • vanderhook,

    Haha Jof is a boss indeed. I remember reading a part with Tyrion fondly thinking how Joffrey would react to the arrival of Oberyn…spit orange juice all over my copy of a Storm of Swords. Despite all, I’m going to miss the sadistic bastarc eventually.

  • How awesome would it be if we see the mad king kill Neds brother and father in the HOTU? I believe D&D filmed this sequence for season 1 but never showed it

  • You beat me to it, Lex. Definitely has some bad ass armor/outfits.

    Lex:
    As much as I hate Joffrey… gotta say, he looks pretty bad ass in that pic. They’ve done an amazing job with all his costumes/armour/etc.

  • Fire And Blood,

    I guess we will find out. If that’s the direction they go in, I won’t be bothered by it as long as it’s explained in a way that makes sense.

  • I finally realized what the photo of Theon and Dagmar is supposed to be. They are waving their banner as a signal to who they think are Ironborn reinforcements coming to help them. That’s why Theon looks so excited. Only, of course, it turns out to be Ramsey and the Dreadfort troops…

  • As mentioned, Ralph Ineson (Dagmer) said on Twitter that he has not been asked to come back for season 3.

  • does any one think Joffrey had the right to behead Ned Stark. i mean, all his life, he is told that he would be king when Robert dies, a great king. He becomes king after his father(HE doesn’t know about jaime) dies. then Ned Stark come with his little piece of paper, saying the iron throne doesn’t belong to him that he isn’t a king or even a Baratheon and that he is a bastard, and he is giving the throne to his uncle.
    as much as i like Ned, he had it coming.

  • Default King: Don’t you think that having Harry Llyod playing Rhaegar would be incredibly confusing to non-readers (and some readers as well)? There would have to be some terribly clumsy dialogue just to make it evident that it was Rhaegar (“It’s Rhaegar, my brother who was killed blah blah blah…”), and even then a lot of new viewers would be very confused.

    Well to make it successful, they would have to pad him up to look like he had more bulk and muscles, and age his face some, make his hair longer than how Viserys’ was – I just thought it would give a good visual and make it easy for people to look at him and think that it was clearly another Targaryen brother in the vision, and mainly I’ve just become a big Harry Lloyd fan, and wanted to see him in the show again :) Even if it’s only for a short vision.

  • Oh, I like the ideas of Ned and Drogo making an appearance! It makes a lot more sense for the television show than introducing characters we’ve never seen, and the show doesn’t seems to want to drag the Robert’s Rebellion history into it.

    As much as I’d like to see any number of new characters today, it seems like they aren’t into surprise casting too much. I learned that expecting a Stannis cameo last year. Also, doesn’t make sense to cast someone and then use them for the last episode, unless it’s an extra, like they’ve done with Jaqen and Beric.

    I know tonight’s episode has a lot of ground to cover, but I’m also hoping to get some answer to the Talisa mystery, though I’m starting to think it’s not a mystery at all, she’s really just Talisa from Volantis.

  • No PLEASE no Harry Lloyd as Rhaegar. That would be too confusing.

    But it would be soooo amazing if there were Ned/Drogo/Rhaegar cameos.. They could just stick all the flashbacks into this Dany episode, I would die of happiness.

  • aurorsand147,

    Joffrey has no right as King because he is not the king. In his mind I suppose Ned Stark is guilty of treason, but he was a fool to kill the man as it resulted in civil war. He is the bastard of Cersei and her brother, just like his siblings. Ned Stark was hand of the King and protecting the line of succession. With no heirs, the throne goes to the late King’s younger brother Stannis. Even if it wasn’t her brother that had fathered Joffrey, Cersei committed adultery against the King which is an act of treason against the realm. Just ask Anne Boleyn or Katherine Howard on what becomes of traitorous queens.

  • And don’t forget we might get the execution of Karstark this episode.. what do you think?

  • Theon sees that it was a useless act to take Winterfell. Luwin tries to convince him to take the Black, but Theon sees that as an insult and kills him. The picture is Theon ordering Dagmar to torch Winterfell and kill everyone. Theon and his men ride out to meet the Bastard of Bolton and his men. Theon is defeated and taken captive. Bran and his party rise from the crypt to find Winterfell sacked and everyone dead. At least that is how I see it happening.

  • aurorsand147,

    Joffrey was well within his rights to have Ned executed. He’s the king, and in Westeros the king’s word is law. It doesn’t matter if he is illegitimate; it’s not like there is some governmental body that one can petition in a case like this. There is no Supreme Court of Westeros. If one believes the king to be illegitimate, one must depose him by force (which multiple people have been actively trying to do).

    crack,

    I doubt it. I would bet that bit has been shuffled into Season 3 or, more likely, cut altogether.

  • Default King,

    Who knows.. but I remember some leaked shooting part where Karstark called Talisa/Jeyne foreign bitch from this I conclude that things might get more intesified tonight.

  • crack,

    Interesting! I hadn’t heard that. I think the Karstark execution is pretty important to Robb’s character development, so I’d hate to see it go.

  • Shinyteapot: All these visions are through Dany’s eyes. They’re not necessarily exact. She needs to recognise the man as her brother, and after mistaking him for Viserys realise it’s Rhaegar. Dany never met Rhaegar (or her parents etc)- she’d imagine him as an older, stronger, less arseholeish version of Viserys.

    I do hope we get at least Drogo, Rhaego, RW foreshadowing (but looking like a hint of a Stark king existing instead of showing the trouble he gets into) and the prophecies in 3s. Anything else I’d call a very welcome bonus. I’d love it if a certain scene from the first series that was shot but not aired ended up in there, but suspect otherwise.

      

    That’s what I’m hoping we get too(at least). Especially the RW foreshadowing

  • crack,

    Default King,

    I think it might be shown today, since they went for the trouble of casting Karstark and actually bringing up his story arc, with his hatred for Jaime and all that.

  • That little cunt Joffrey standing all proud in his armour like a warrior king! Why oh why George did you not give us a duel with real swords between Joff and Robb?

  • Please, no Harry Lloyd as Rhaegar. Not so much because it would be confusing–it could be fine if presented correctly and his looks were altered enough–but because I would go insane with the dichotomy. I hate Viserys. I love Rhaegar. I’d go madder than Aerys II trying to reconcile the two.

  • Eleanor: Eleanor

    Posted June 3, 2012 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Anyone think it’s possible that a certain beloved character, Maester Luwin, will live in the series despite being killed in the books? Already he’s passed the point where he would have died. And the show certainly hasn’t been shy about mixing up the deaths.
    That would make me very happy.

    Eleanor

    I would have said yes last week but then the casting list came out and the Reeds are in so Lewin is as good as dead in my opinion, though it makes me sad to think it.

  • crack,

    The leaked scene you reference already happened. Karstark insulted Talisa in ‘A Man Without Honor’. (Cat: “He’s gone to the Crag to negotiate a surrender”. Karstark: “Aye, and he took that foreign bitch with him”). The beheading won’t happen until early Season 3. Extended finale or not, I’m pretty sure all that we’ll get of Robb tonight is him telling Cat of his intentions to marry Talisa, and then sending her to Riverrun.

  • Will Zarro Zohan Ducksaws and his peeing prat of a warluck lose their heads tonight, or just get burnt to a crisp?

    And what’s in Chekhov’s Vault? Maybe the dragons and Doreah?

  • Loved half the finale. Hated the other half.

    They dropped the ball in the House of the Undying imo. Same goes for Winterfell.

    The first time I’ve been disappointed with the show.