New DP joins Thrones, gives us an idea of the S3 directorial line-up
By Winter Is Coming on in News, Production.

Film and TV production site Creative Cow is reporting that cinematographer Robert McLachlan will be joining the Game of Thrones team for two episodes in season three. He will be reuniting with director David Nutter and lensing the final two episodes of the season.

This project marks a reunion between McLachlan and Nutter, who previously collaborated on the formative award winning episodes of Chris Carter’s television series “Millennium” in the late 90’s where McLachlan’s influential, groundbreaking, moody, atmospheric visuals gained him widespread recognition and numerous awards. Following “Millennium”, McLachlan shifted from television to feature films. Nutter has since gone on to become TV’s most successful pilot director ever.

“ I am really excited about working with David again. We have very similar instincts and aesthetics. And we both like to push the envelope every way we can. We also like to keep up a blistering pace. It keeps us all on our toes. I love it”

Winter Is Coming: This gives us an idea of the season three directorial line-up. We already knew Alan Taylor will be directing one episode this season, probably an early one as production on Thor 2 will be in full-swing by the fall. Now we know that David Nutter will be returning and he will be directing the final two episodes of season three (which may include a very major event). What other directors would you like them to add for season three? I hope Alik Sakharov will return, as I loved his work in ep13. And I would like it if they could bring back Tim Van Patten or Dan Minahan, as both did good work on season one.

UPDATE: I’ve been told by a trusted source that, unfortunately, Alan Taylor will NOT be returning for season three. Bummer.


283 Comments

  1. Omar Brown
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    I would love Neil Marshall to direct the “Attack Of The Wall” a great battle that would thrive under his strengths. Tho I am not certain it would fall under this season.

  2. loco73
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    I would like to get Jeremy Podeswa to direct one episode this season. He is an acomplished director in his own right and a veteran working with both HBO, Showtime etc.

    Also, maybe they could keep the guest director spot open again for some director we haven’t thought about. I would definitely like to see Neil Marshall return! He did a tremendous job and paired with a George RR Martin penned script…pure gold!

  3. Alex Also
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Is ‘lensing’ a word?

  4. Maxwell James
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    I hope they get Lena Dunham to direct an episode. Just so I can watch the internet’s brain explode.

  5. Winter Is Coming
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    loco73: I would like to get Jeremy Podeswa to direct one episode this season. He is an acomplished director in his own right and a veteran working with both HBO, Showtime etc.

    It is likely he was the one slated to direct “Blackwater” at first, but then had to bow out at the last minute due to personal reasons. So there is a decent chance he may be asked back for season three.

    Alex Also:
    Is ‘lensing’ a word?

    Yes. It is an industry term.

  6. MoonCoffee
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    OT, an audition clip for Daario: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JXdo3ySFBg

    Doesn’t seem like a scene from the book.

  7. funlight
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    WiC, I agree that it would be great to have Tim Van Patten back.

  8. RitariKnight
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    Nobody noticed the mention Morocco as a shooting location?

    Filming will take place this summer and fall in Ireland, Croatia and Morocco.

    So, is it true or just an error on part of the writer of that piece?

  9. Winter Is Coming
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    RitariKnight, I think it is an error. At the same time this article was published, David & Dan confirmed a return to Iceland and Croatia and said they might add a fourth country, but weren’t sure. So I don’t see how the writer of this article could know for sure that they would add one and that it would be Morocco.

  10. Knurk
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    RitariKnight,

    Winter Is Coming,

    if they would go back there one would assume they want to use the old sets of Kingdom of Heaven again? They could come in handy for the Daenerys storyline.

  11. Ross
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Clearly the red wedding is going to be the – seemingly now traditional – episode nine season centrepiece. Then if we are following the pattern so far, we would need an inspirational Dany moment at the season end, which means the sacking of Astapor in episode 10. All good.

  12. sjwenings
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    I think I like this. Ep 16, directed by Nutter, was one of my favorites – a lot of action and tension/suspension, and it included one of the best scenes of the show – Rodricks execution.
    This other guy seems promising as well.

    And I too, hope that Alik Sakharov will return for the 3rd season. And wouldn’t mind him doing two eps this time around.

  13. sjwenings
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    Ross: Clearly

    Why clearly?

  14. Coltaine777
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    Bring back Neil Marshall…

  15. Ross
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    sjwenings: Why clearly?

    Because the evidence is there. D&D have stated previously that they were desperate to get to season 3 to make the red wedding, which suggests it will be in season 3 not 4. The fact they have put their A-team on the final two episodes, and the fact that, so far, episode 9 has been the ‘big event’ episode, I think it’s fair to assume this will be the case.

  16. Lannisport
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Save Marshall for season 4. There is a certain big event that will occur in that season that is tailor made for him to get his hands on

  17. Virtus
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Ross:
    Clearly the red wedding is going to be the – seemingly now traditional – episode nine season centrepiece.Then if we are following the pattern so far, we would need an inspirational Dany moment at the season end, which means the sacking of Astapor in episode 10.All good.

    But we know that Daario is being cast. In the book Dany meets Daario en route to Yunkai. Of course they might change that.

  18. Daniel
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    Tim Van Patten has made some great episodes in various tv shows, so yeah him. Also he is one of the few tv directors I know of ;-)

  19. Arthur
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    If there is any big battle scene (Dany’s storyline) this season.

    I hope they bring back Neal Marshall…

    Okay so D&D is lining up their directors… Where is the castings?

    Does anyone have a feeling D&D are merging Daario and Strong Belwas as one character? I havn’t heard anything about Strong Belwas and it would make sense that Dany would fall for a warrior as badass as Drogo. So maybe TV Daario will take on both roles of Daario and Strong Belwas?

    Who knows…

  20. Ross
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    Virtus: But we know that Daario is being cast. In the book Dany meets Daario en route to Yunkai. Of course they might change that.

    Good point. It’s a while since I’ve read them so I get the chronology mixed up.

    What I am looking forward to with Dany’s story is the (re)introduction of Arstan / Selmy.

  21. Winter Is Coming
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    Just heard from a trusted source that Alan Taylor will NOT be returning for season three. The previous report of him being able to direct one episode was either incorrect or they just weren’t able to make it work. Guess Thor 2 will keep him too busy. Bummer.

  22. Arthur
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    Ross,

    Dany’s storyline is going to be so badass this next few seasons. Also, Bran’s storyline is very fun with the Reeds IMO. So much to look forward to. Hope Tyrion doesn’t hog all the screen time. It’s time to let other characters/actors shine in the glorious D&D spotlight. =)

  23. fuelpagan
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    Arthur: So maybe TV Daario will take on both roles of Daario and Strong Belwas?

    Does that mean he will be half a eunuch?

  24. quorin halfhand
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    That guy would be a horrible daario. NEXT!!

    MoonCoffee:
    OT, an audition clip for Daario: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JXdo3ySFBg

    Doesn’t seem like a scene from the book.

  25. The Kingslayer
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    I would like to see Neil Marshall return for more than one epiode if possible, but HBO should definitely beg Neil to come back for at least one episode, Blackwater IMO is the best episode in the series.

  26. Impi
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    Ross:

    What I am looking forward to with Dany’s story is the (re)introduction of Arstan / Selmy.

    I have really been looking forward to that too! I fear, however, that he will be bringing Ros with him, somehow, ….. I cry a little inside at that thought.

  27. Maxwell James
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    Arthur,

    Does anyone have a feeling D&D are merging Daario and Strong Belwas as one character?

    You’re just trying to make Knurk go ballistic, aren’t you?

  28. The Kingslayer
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    Strong Belwas is one of the best characters from Dany’s chapters, if D & D exclude him I’ll be pissed. Frankly I’d rather have Belwas than the Queen of Thorns.

  29. Vanderhook
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Just a suggestion: Can we try to be a bit more heavy with the spoiler text?
    posts like:

    “What I am looking forward to with Dany’s story is the (re)introduction [SPOILER]“
    Is still spoilerish, as we now expect someone to be reintroduced into Dany’s story.

    And thats just one example, lots of those types of posts in these threads.. I’ve read all the books, so it’s not spoiling me, but lets try and be extra careful here.

  30. Sean
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    I feel like the only one who thinks Alan Taylor is considerably over rated as a director.

  31. MockingTheFlayedLion
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Too bad about Alan Taylor. Still keeping my fingers crossed for Thor 2 though. Would have been nice to see Neil Marshall again, but to be completely honest, I trust that whoever HBO picks, they will do the job great.

  32. Maxwell James
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Impi,

    LOL. Now I’m reimagining the character as Strong Ros. Between seasons Varys sticks her in a scar-covered fat suit, invents a history for her as a badass gladiator, and sends her off in a ship with undercover Barristan Selmy.

    OR… Ros has been a massive, fearsome eunuch all along! Just wait till Theon finds out!

  33. Morgan King
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Ross,

    And that’s the problem – the Red Wedding is a surprise, not a huge confrontation but a shocking betrayal. Putting it in the most predictable place seems like a mistake to me. I’d much prefer it at episode 7 or 8 or to open Season 4.

  34. Ross
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Vanderhook,

    Apologies, I would hate to spoil anything for anyone – so mods if you would like to black out the rest of that sentence, please do so, thanks.

  35. sjwenings
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Ross: Because the evidence is there. D&D have stated previously that they were desperate to get to season 3 to make the red wedding, which suggests it will be in season 3 not 4. The fact they have put their A-team on the final two episodes, and the fact that, so far, episode 9 has been the ‘big event’ episode, I think it’s fair to assume this will be the case.

    Yes, I assumed they’d wanna do RW in season 3. I was really just wondering which ep it’d be in.

    But why is this “the A team”? They’d want to end on a high note, so theres no surprise they bring in someone very competent, but they might bring in someone just as good or better for earlier eps. The only reason to expect it to be the 9th ep IMO, is the previous 2 seasons. And thats a pretty good reason, I just wouldn’t use the word “clearly”.

  36. Winter Is Coming
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    Vanderhook:
    Just a suggestion: Can we try to be a bit more heavy with the spoiler text?
    posts like:

    “What I am looking forward to with Dany’s story is the (re)introduction [SPOILER]“
    Is still spoilerish, as we now expect someone to be reintroduced into Dany’s story.

    And thats just one example, lots of those types of posts in these threads.. I’ve read all the books, so it’s not spoiling me, but lets try and be extra careful here.

    Yes, good point. If you are posting something spoilery, better to be cautious and just hide the whole thing than try to get cute and just hide (what you think are) the spoilery parts.

    Ross:
    Vanderhook,

    Apologies, I would hate to spoil anything for anyone – so mods if you would like to black out the rest of that sentence, please do so, thanks.

    No problem. An honest mistake. I fixed it for you. :)

  37. Direhound
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    I’d really be interested to see what Tom McCarthy brought to the table in the season 1 unaired pilot. His relationship with Dinklage is I’m sure what got him the gig so maybe for a Tyrion heavy episode in next season.

  38. paylor
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    I can hardly understand that audition tape, but Daario talks about 8,000 Unsullied. I wonder when she’s going to acquire them. She’s got a lot to do next season, which will be good. Sounds like Daario might have been talking to Prendahl na Ghezn, who was going on about how he wanted to sneak into Dany’s camp, rape her then kill her. Not too impressed with the guy, but he’s young and fairly cute, which works in his favor.

  39. Ross
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Morgan King:
    Ross,

    And that’s the problem – the Red Wedding is a surprise, not a huge confrontation but a shocking betrayal. Putting it in the most predictable place seems like a mistake to me. I’d much prefer it at episode 7 or 8 or to open Season 4.

    Totally agree and I hope you are right. I also really hope in the lead up to it that there is no clearly ominous feeling with the music, tone or actions (beyond maybe Grey Wind growling at the Freys). It needs to feel like it will be a tense and difficult meeting, but the final events should, for the audience, come out of nowhere. I’ll never forget the utter shock and sickening feeling I felt when I first read it, and I hope the programme can have the same impact on non-book readers

  40. paylor
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    Sorry about the lack of spoiler bars. I was just going back in to edit, when I notice it already was. Thank you.

  41. Arthur
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    The Kingslayer,

    Strong Belwas is one of the best characters from Dany’s chapters, if D & D exclude him I’ll be pissed. Frankly I’d rather have Belwas than the Queen of Thorns.

    I agree… But that “confirmed character casting” for season 3 left him out. But I also remember Brienne was very low key during season 2 castings until the end. They also did say “and many others” after the character casting announcments. Just Daario being introduced so early in the TV series and Strong Belwas not being mentioned made me think.

    We all know Dany will have a thing for any cocky Drogo-like warrior. Maybe they will merge Daario/Strong Belwas or maybe not…

    If they do merge those characters the actor playing him better be a badass. All these little casting youtube links for Daario aint going to cut it…

  42. paylor
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Ross,

    It was probably because I was spoiled, but I felt incredible tension reading the Red Wedding Chapter. It all felt very, very doomed.

    God! I’m sorry. I’m trying to put spoiler tags in it. I’ll just stop posting today.

  43. Udi
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Could we have Woody Allen direct an entire episode for Peter Dinklage? Pretty please?

  44. Joël Linger
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Alan Taylor is one of the biggest names in television so on one hand it is a shame he won’t return. But I must admit that he didn’t live up to the expectations this season. He has directed a couple of the less interesting episodes this season though I’m not sure an other director would have done a better job.

    I definitely hope that Tim van Patten will be back, He is great also!

  45. Omar Brown
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    The Kingslayer,

    Psh! My favorite minor character is Donal Noye! I am surprised we haven’t heard a peep of him esp since he gets to become stand in commander while Mormont is gone and who can forget his epic giant slaying death?

  46. Omar Brown
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    They should get M. Night Shaymalan to direct a “very special episode”.

    But hey, could be worse, could be Brett Ratner. ;-)

  47. Shinyteapot
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    Ross,

    I rather hope they don’t stick to the big event in episode 9 approach. It’s predictable and I would prefer it if this were not the case.

    I’m hoping for one big event in episode 8 and another in episode 10.

  48. Alan
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Omar Brown:
    I would love Neil Marshall to direct the “Attack Of The Wall” a great battle that would thrive under his strengths. Tho I am not certain it would fall under this season.

    I expect the attack from the South of the Wall will end season one and therefore be in one of Nutter’s episodes. Could be wrong.

    At minimum, I’d sign Marshall up for the battle in Season 4.

    Nutter did episodes six and seven this year. Aside from the spectacle of Blackwater, I think episode seven was the strongest start to finish. This, of course, can be a lot to do with the writing as well. But Nutter has done well with what he’s gotten so far.

    I can’t really tell if it was merely the show gaining it’s stride but it got more cinematic in the first season when Daniel Minahan grabbed the reins and then Alan Taylor really crushed the end of season one. Since then, I think the director has been strong, except that some of the directors struggle with action more than others.

    Since I think there’s a good chance Dracarys! ends Season 3, I wonder how much word Nutter has done with extensive CGI?

  49. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Omar Brown:
    They should get M. Night Shaymalan to direct a “very special episode”.

    But hey, could be worse, could be Brett Ratner. ;-)

    I don’t get it . Brett Ratner was an executive producer on Prison Break which was a great show imo .

  50. The Queen's Hand
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Virtus: But we know that Daario is being cast. In the book Dany meets Daario en route to Yunkai. Of course they might change that.

    I was just thinking, since we haven’t heard anything about Strong Belwas yet, perhaps Daario is replacing him.

  51. Varamyr Fourskins
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    As far as directors connected to HBO, I’ve always been a fan of Allen Coulter (he worked on the Sopranos and Rome, and more recently, Boardwalk Empire and Luck. He also did the pilot for Sons of Anarchy). However, since he’s working on BE, his schedule might be a little tight (but, it’s not like he directs every single episode, so he could probably fit it in somewhere).

  52. Varamyr Fourskins
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    Omar Brown:
    They should get M. Night Shaymalan to direct a “very special episode”.

    But hey, could be worse, could be Brett Ratner. ;-)

    Actually, they can’t get Shymalan, because he has a clause in his contract that says all of his films must be accompanied by the tagline, “From the mind of M. Night Shymalan”.

    As for Ratner, if he was a little more recognizable, he’d make a good internet meme, but a director? Not so much.

  53. Erik
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps, Daario will replaced the role of ship’s captain, instead of Groleo. Daario could be a pirate/mercenary chief or somebody like that.

  54. Ross
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Varamyr Fourskins: Actually, they can’t get Shymalan, because he has a clause in his contract that says all of his films must be accompanied by the tagline, “From the mind of M. Night Shymalan”.

    Plus he’d have to crowbar in some illogical ‘twist’ along the way. Hmm, actually maybe he is suited. ;-)

  55. JonathanL
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    I loved Alik Sakharov’s work; episode three of the second season was my favorite upon first viewing. Would love to see a return.

  56. Lars
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    JonathanL:
    I loved Alik Sakharov’s work; episode three of the second season was my favorite upon first viewing. Would love to see a return.

    Yep, add me to the list who would like to see Alik Sakharov return. He shot/directed some of the most beautiful scenes of S2. More, please!

  57. Jordan Healey
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    I enjoyed David Nutter’s directing of Replacements on Band of Brothers.

    His episodes of Millenium were pretty good too.

    I was NOT a fan of the ending of Iwo Jima (The Pacific) though when Basilone returns to fight (not sure if he or Jeremy directed that). That was really, really cheesy and bad.

    Can’t say David Nutter has wowed me yet on Game of Thrones yet either. He directed that really poor Amory Lorch chasing Arya in Harrenhal scene, but he was alright otherwise.

    I am pleased by the selection of Robert McLachlan though, his style should suit the last two episodes of this season.

    Other directors I wouldn’t mind to see on Game of Thrones:

    Joe Chappelle
    Ed Bianchi
    Susanna White
    Steve Shill
    Stuart Orme
    Allen Coulter
    Tim Van Patten (again)
    Neil Marshall (again)

  58. serum
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Ross,

    according to imdb episode 7 of season 3 is titled autumn storms and I believe that is the one GRRM is writing so I think we will see the red wedding in that episode

  59. Sanette
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    I would love to see Sakharov directing more episodes! He’s got a great visual style. Van Patten as well. I’m glad we won’t see any of Taylor’s dull directing style next season. His episodes are always so unimaginative.

  60. darquemode
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    Is Daario “bad ass” though? He is clearly dangerous, but I always took him as more swagger and skill than a big warrior type like Drogo. More lean and fast like Jaime than just overpowering brawn like Drogo. Maybe just me.

    I always pictured Hal Ozsan, but I think Said Taghmaoui (Ceasar from LOST Season 6) could do well too.

  61. The Kingslayer
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    All this talk of merging Daario with Belwas makes no sense, those character are nothing alike.

    D & D already butchered Dany’s Dothraki entourage so it’s not like there’s not enough room for Belwas.

  62. The Kingslayer
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    They’ll need to cast someone with sex appeal for Daario.

  63. Jordan Healey
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    Direhound:
    I’d really be interested to see what Tom McCarthy brought to the table in the season 1 unaired pilot. His relationship with Dinklage is I’m sure what got him the gig so maybe for a Tyrion heavy episode in next season.

    If I recall correctly his experience directing the pilot was a negative one.

  64. darquemode
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    loco73,

    He was someone I thought of too.
    Long history with HBO and has done period or fantasy genre with Carnivale, Rome, The Borgias and The Tudors….

    Jack Bender is another one. Worked on the Sopranos and Carnivale for HBO, plus of course LOST. Alcatraz was cancelled so he could be available too…

  65. Arthur
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    The Kingslayer,

    I’m probably totally wrong. Just D&D bringing in Daario in so soon and never mentioning Strong Belwas made me think.

    I hope I’m wrong too. I really miss a Drogotype warrior in the show.

  66. Joh
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    ….ok, almost fainted with joy over the GOT team getting somebody who worked on ‘Millenium’…

    His style should fit the dark tone of season 3…

  67. Pepi
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    Episode 6 was my favourite episode, next to Blackwater, this season. David Nutter handled the taking of Winterfell splendidly. I’m glad to hear he’s back for season 3.

  68. Varamyr Fourskins
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    The Kingslayer:
    They’ll need to cast someone with sex appeal for Daario.

    I never got the impression that he was all that physically attractive from reading the books. Seems like Dany is more enthralled by his swagger than anything else.

    Then again, I got the same vibe from Drogo, and they went with the Jason Momoa, “I’m an underwear model”-look, instead of the Genghis Khan “I’m a scary, weathered nomad”-look.

    So, I would suspect they’ll go with some kind of Antonio Banderas-type instead of a gritty sellsword/Bronn-type (it’s ok, HBO. I understand your reasoning. Women watch the show too).

  69. Lex
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Episode 6 (or 16) this year was one of my favourites (along with 3, 9, and 10), so I’d say Nutter returning is good news.

    I’d also like to see Neil Marshall back, but I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

  70. andrea
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    Yes, Minahan please, he was the best in season 1 imo. I missed him in season 2.

  71. Shinyteapot
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    Varamyr Fourskins,

    I assumed he must be utterly gorgeous, because he’d have to be to get away with that attitude! He needs to be good looking enough for the storyline to be reasonable, but of course the charm and swagger is very much part of his character.

    I will be very upset if Strong Belwas isn’t cast.

  72. darquemode
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    The Kingslayer,

    Think they could cast another Hawaiian in Thrones?
    Taylor Wily (the Shave-Ice or shrimp guy from Hawaii Five-O) for Belwas…
    http://hawaiifive0online.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/e9fgu.jpg

  73. Lyn Corbray
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    paylor,

    I believe he was talking to Mero the Titan’s Bastard, who we saw an audition for previously doing the other lines

  74. Ultrabaebs!
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Dahhh.. I would like ta see Quentin Tarantino direct. Or a TV show director but I don’t know any of dem. Maybe one of dem directeurs from Sparticus.

  75. SugarVampire
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Episode 16 also had Amory Lorch chasing Arya without anyone helping and Arya screaming at Jaqen like a brat. I would say that is a bit uneven in handling the material.

  76. vntrlqst
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    John Hillcoat for Red Wedding episode.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddnox9DoK88&feature=relmfu

    Also, David Minahan directed, IMO, the two best episodes of season one.

  77. Ice&Fire
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Arthur:
    The Kingslayer,

    I agree…But that “confirmed character casting” for season 3 left him out.But I also remember Brienne was very low key during season 2 castings until the end.They also did say “and many others” after the character casting announcments.Just Daario being introduced so early in the TV series and Strong Belwas not being mentioned made me think.

    We all know Dany will have a thing for any cocky Drogo-like warrior.Maybe they will merge Daario/Strong Belwas or maybe not…

    If they do merge those characters the actor playing him better be a badass.All these little casting youtube links for Daario aint going to cut it…

    I’m thinking they could easily exclude Strong Belwas, except for a few major scenes, he more of a background character and I can see some of his scenes being replaced by either Jorah Mormont and/or Barristan Selmy

  78. oierem
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    Alan Taylor’s episodes have been the most interesting ones visually, both in season 1 and season 2. Shame he’s not back.

  79. andrea
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    oh, and John Sayles, but that´s a dream.

  80. sjwenings
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Ice&Fire: I’m thinking they could easily exclude Strong Belwas, except for a few major scenes, he more of a background character and I can see some of his scenes being replaced by either Jorah Mormont and/or Barristan Selmy

    Can’t really see either of these guys do the scene Belwas is most imfamous for, though… You know the one.

  81. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    I don’t understand why you think Tyrion should take a backseat and let the other actors shine. Tyrion has more POV chapters in the books than anyone and is pretty much considered to be the most entertaining character in the books and the show.
    Since season 3 will cover ASOS, I think the best way to judge screen time for the next couple of seasons is to look at how many POV’s each character has in that book.

    POV chapters in ASOS:

    Arya – 13
    Jon – 12
    Tyrion – 11
    Jaime – 9
    Catelyn – 7
    Sansa – 7
    Daenerys – 6
    Davos – 6
    Sam – 5
    Bran – 4

    Obviously, Dany and Bran will be given a bit more to do, but in no way should that mean Tyrion gets less screen time.

  82. LokiRedking
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    I think the battle at the Wall will be broken up over the final two episodes, which is reflected below. I also think the three Slaver Cities might conflate to two or one – which is not reflected below.

    My guess (in broad strokes) as to how S3 gets blocked out:

    E1: Sansa meets the Tyrells; Tyrion meets with Lord Tywin; Bronn has a new life; Davos is plucked from the sea; Jaime and Brienne are pursued; Jon meets Mance Rayder; Daenerys sails to Slaver’s Bay.
    E2: Davos is arrested; Robb arrives to Riverrun (for Lord Hoster’s funeral) and scolds Edmure; Arya is captured by the Brotherhood and meets the Lightning Lord; Bran meets the Reeds; Sam kills an Other while in retreat; Jon arrives with Mance to the Fist of the First Men; Barristan Selmy comes to Daenerys.
    E3: Lord Tywin sends Littlefinger to the Vale, and dictates marriage for Tyrion; Melisandre visits Davos in prison; Robb executes Rickard Karstark; Jaime and Brienne are captured by Vargo Hoat, and Jaime is maimed; Arya meets the Ghost of High Heart; Meera tells the tale of the Laughing Knight; Jon and Ygritte go into a cave; Daenerys takes the Unsullied.
    E4: Sansa is married in a hurry to Tyrion; Tywin reveals two new swords; Arya meets the captive Hound; The Hound wins his freedom from The Lightning Lord; Vargo Hoat gives Jaime and Brienne to Roose Bolton; Robb decides he must go to the Twins; Jon scales The Wall; Sam escapes from Craster’s Keep.
    E5: Tyrion welcomes Oberyn Martell; Jaime is released by Roose Bolton; The Hound follows the Brotherhood, kidnaps Arya; Jaime returns for Brienne; Bran hides in a tower while Jon makes his escape; Sam meets Coldhands; Daenerys liberates Yunkai with Daario’s help.
    E6: Robb decides upon an heir; Arya and the Hound cross the Trident, near the Twins; The Red Wedding.
    E7: Lord Tywin reveals his plots; Davos finds a letter; Arya and the Hound head toward the Vale; Jon defends Castle Black; Bran meets Sam and Coldhands; Daenerys arrives to Meereen.
    E8: The Purple Wedding; Sansa escapes King’s Landing.
    E9: Tyrion’s court trials; Davos has a plan for Stannis; Mance brings his army to the Wall; Jon is arrested.
    E10: The Red Viper v. The Mountain, and Tyrion is condemned; Jaime sends Brienne on a quest; Arya leaves the Hound and sails for Braavos; Stannis charges Mance’s army at the Wall; Daenerys banishes Jorah; Sansa arrives to the Vale.

  83. Evil erik
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    quorin halfhand:
    That guy would be a horrible daario. NEXT!!

    This fool has 100% thumbs down. I made the mistake of clicking the link…. I mean nice try dude, but seriously…

  84. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    LokiRedking,

    They are splitting ASOS into two seasons. There is no way all of that stuff happens in S3.

  85. vntrlqst
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    vntrlqst: John Hillcoat for Red Wedding episode.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddnox9DoK88&feature=relmfu

    Also, David Minahan directed, IMO, the two best episodes of season one.

    Daniel Minahan* I mean, and it was the best three episodes, actually.

  86. Anvil
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    LokiRedking:
    My guess (in broad strokes) as to how S3 gets blocked out:

    S3 will only cover rougly the first half of ASOS.

  87. NewJeffCT
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    George R.R. Martin is set to pen Episode 7, entitled Autumn Storms. My guess is that this will be the Red Wedding. Though, I would hope they save that for episode 9 or S4, Episode 1 or 2.

    Maybe they save The Purple Wedding for episode 9 or 10?

  88. Superdeluxe
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Bring Neil Marshall for one episode.

  89. vntrlqst
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    NewJeffCT,

    There’s a flurry of chapters (like four or five) that simultaneously take place during a storm. These chapters are the chapters directly preceding the Red Wedding. This makes it (Red Wedding) ripe for episode eight. Then there are like five chapters that deal with reactions to that event (so, episode nine), and then the next chapters after that deal with the Purple Wedding and Sansa’s escape, making for a neat season ending.

    Like season one, I see George taking the episode that builds to the major, shocking, earth shattering episode. Hasn’t it been said that he found the Red Wedding too difficult to write and may not want to revisit that experience?

  90. LokiRedking
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Yes there is.

    They’ve already moved some scenes to the second season, and have set themselves up nicely for eliminating a number of other scenes. I expect they’ll conflate the Slaver Cities, eliminating a lot of Daenerys’ (rather repetitious) storyline.

    I’ll be surprised if Stannis’ arrival to the Wall doesn’t finish the season, and how much of the third book is left after that?

    The Red Wedding & Arya’s arrival to the Twins constitute a ready-made focus-episode, and as others have pointed out, leaving this until episode nine will make it very predictable. I think it’ll be episode 6 or 7, changing the stakes for the remainder of the season.

    These guys aren’t idiots. They write tightly, and at a typical 3-5 minutes per scene there is nothing I put in there that doesn’t add to more than an hour of television.

  91. Fienix
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    OK, I can’t remember, and all this speculation of what’s going to happen in which episode got me wondering… have they said for sure yet how many episodes season 3 is going to have? Will it still be the standard 10, or are they (hopefully!) going to add a few more? Thanks to anyone who can answer…

  92. Kaeth
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    I keep reading that everyone seems to think episode 9 is going to be the RW. But they couldnt be more wrong imo. Its obvious were gonna get it around episode 4 or 5 if not sooner so its more of a suprise.I mean just how the second season ended felt like was rushed on puprpose just so we could get there quicker. I think will probably more than likely get another famous event from book 3 as the episode 9 climax.

  93. darquemode
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    I wouldn’t be surprised if RW happens in Season 4 honestly…..
    It seems like an obvious finale, for Season 3 but when you think it occurs well past the midway point of the book it really should be in the beginning of Season 4 as a major event to shape the season.

    If they split it along the midway point of the book you still get a lot of perfect material for the last 2 episodes.
    - Jon’s escape is a perfect finale point to me.
    - Bran at the Queen’s Tower,
    - Either Arya seeing Hound vs Lighting Lord or Arya seeing the Brotherhood Without Banners vs the Bloody Mummers
    - Tyrion and Sansa marry
    - Vargo’s bear pit
    - Davos becomes Stannis’ Hand
    - Robb gets invited to Edmure’s wedding.
    - Dany at Yunkai
    Having Season 3 be heavy on Arya and Jon makes
    Jon’s escape the perfect finale to me in a lot of ways….

  94. Lars
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Kaeth:
    I keep reading that everyone seems to think episode 9 is going to be the RW. But they couldnt be more wrong imo. Its obvious were gonna get it around episode 4 or 5 if not sooner so its more of a suprise.I mean just how the second season ended felt like was rushed on puprpose just so we could get there quicker. I think will probably more than likely get another famous event from book 3 as the episode 9 climax.

    You are aware that season 3 is not covering all of season 3, right? I’m guessing only 50-60% of it. The RW makes sense as a penultimate episode. Other season 3 ending points may be Dany at Astapor, and Jon/Ygritte battle at castle black.

  95. TheBull
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Fienix:
    OK, I can’t remember, and all this speculation of what’s going to happen in which episode got me wondering… have they said for sure yet how many episodes season 3 is going to have?Will it still be the standard 10, or are they (hopefully!) going to add a few more?Thanks to anyone who can answer…

    I’m pretty sure they’ve said they won’t ever go beyond 10 episodes a season because it will just be too expensive.

  96. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Kaeth,

    It will happen in one of the final 3 episodes of the season. Arya will have her storyline with the Brotherhood and the Hound. They can’t cover that and still get her to the Twins for the RW in only 4 or 5 episodes.

  97. Steven Swanson
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    TheBull: I’m pretty sure they’ve said they won’t ever go beyond 10 episodes a season because it will just be too expensive.

    Actually from what I remember D&D saying it’s less the cost than the amount of work involved producing the show (although I’m sure cost is a factor too). They’re just barely able to get 10 episodes done in a year so they don’t want to spread themselves any thinner.

  98. Default King
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    I know there is litte chance that it’s going to play out like this, given the structure of seasons 1 & 2, but I think ending season 3 with “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” would be a brilliant cliffhanger. People who haven’t read the books have been trained to expect something big in episode 9 and a denouement in epsiode 10. Putting the RW in 9 is going to raise serious red flags that this little wedding is going to go horribly wrong. By sticking it in episode 10, no one would see it coming. Also, I don’t think there is any chance of the Purple Wedding happening in season 3. Early season 4, bet on it.

  99. winterfell
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Impi: I fear, however, that he will be bringing Ros with him, somehow

    Wow, you’re the first person i’ve seen to incorporate a backhanded Ros comment into a post on this website. You are SO witty and original. Congratulations on not being a crowd follwing sheep and for having your own original thoughts.

    This is sarcasm, if your utterly brilliant mind couldn’t pick up on it.Which im sure you could because youre so smart and original. (Unlike Ros, right? right?)

  100. TastesLikeTheSea
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    winterfell,

    Hey Esme, do you still have that Bluray I lent you last week? I’d like to get it back please.

  101. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    A woman agrees that Neil Marshall should be invited back for at least one of the upcoming action scenes in the next season. His direction of Blackwater was better than anybody could have imagined, took it places TV audiences have not seen on a TV series. More Neil Marshall please! D&D appear to have quite good taste, in D&D we trust.

  102. Impi
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    winterfell: Wow, you’re the first person i’ve seen to incorporate a backhanded Ros comment into a post on this website. You are SO witty and original. Congratulations on not being a crowd follwing sheep and for having your own original thoughts.

    This is sarcasm, if your utterly brilliant mind couldn’t pick up on it.Which im sure you could because youre so smart and original. (Unlike Ros, right? right?)

    I really am dense I suppose. Thank you for reminding me to resist the urge to post anything, ever. FWIW, this might be my 5th or 6th post.

    I was expressing my mixed feelings of having a favorite character possibly sharing screen time with one for which I do not much like (even though I understand her functionality.)

    Oops, I did it again. You are right. I am too old for this #$%%.

  103. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    TastesLikeTheSea:
    winterfell,

    Hey Esme, do you still have that Bluray I lent you last week? I’d like to get it back please.

    Hah, you’re so funny … not !

  104. Kneeling Knight
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    I need my weekly dose of Game of Thrones soooo bad! And my copies of the novels are still being shipped over! The RPG though fun is just not on the same level. So sad!

  105. Lex
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    SugarVampire:
    Lex,

    Episode 16 also had Amory Lorch chasing Arya without anyone helping and Arya screaming at Jaqen like a brat. I would say that is a bit uneven in handling the material.

    I had no problem with that scene. In fact, I loved it.

  106. Lex
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    What’s with the nearly unanimous love for Alan Taylor? In case anyone forgot, he directed Episode 18 (probably the worst of Season 2), and Episode 12 (I liked it, but others didn’t). He also directed the finale which, although I loved it overall, contained the botched Qhorin/Jon resolution.

  107. Solar
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Sean:
    I feel like the only one who thinks Alan Taylor is considerably over rated as a director.

    false. i think alan taylor is the worst thing this show has done. i would rather have ros…yes i said it.

  108. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Lex:
    What’s with the nearly unanimous love for Alan Taylor? In case anyone forgot, he directed Episode 18 (probably the worst of Season 2), and Episode 12 (I liked it, but others didn’t). He also directed the finale which, although I loved it overall, contained the botched Qhorin/Jon resolution.

    Well he directed the best episodes of last season one which was Ned’s death of course and episode 8 whatever people think of it was well directed and the Jon/Qhorin thing was not his fault but the writers . Also I think some people overrate how great Marshall really is considering he had the biggest battle in the series on his episode not to mention that it was written by GRRM so of course it was the best episode of the season . Now if he directed a normal episode i really don’t think people would praise him as much .

  109. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    Solar: false. i think alan taylor is the worst thing this show has done. i would rather have ros…yes i said it.

    </blockquote
    And what are your arguments for this comment ? Go back to your trolling hole .

  110. Blaat
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Don’t forget for the wedding to have impact, they’ve got to introduce Roose more. I expect a toned down version of the leeching scene. Problem is that the guy has such a creepy vibe, that everyone probably expects him to betray Robb. Especially when Ramsay is introduced as the one who razed Winterfell.

  111. The Instrumentalist
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    Just because a person has a different opinion than yours doesn’t mean they’re a troll… Someone above already has arguments regarding their dislike on the matter.

    Lex:
    What’s with the nearly unanimous love for Alan Taylor? In case anyone forgot, he directed Episode 18 (probably the worst of Season 2), and Episode 12 (I liked it, but others didn’t). He also directed the finale which, although I loved it overall, contained the botched Qhorin/Jon resolution.

    Don’t really have an opinion, just facilitating.

  112. jkb
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    SugarVampire:

    Episode 16 also had Amory Lorch chasing Arya without anyone helping and Arya screaming at Jaqen like a brat.

    ye i didn’t like that either. was a bad scene imo.

    anyway, i don’t now much about TV directors but i’d love to see Allen Coulter as he did some of my favourite Sopranos episodes.

  113. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    The Instrumentalist,

    I’m sorry but the way he said it was in a trollish way . I responded to Lex respectfully because he at least was bringing arguments but don’t tell me to respect what that other idiot said .

  114. WildSeed
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Naveen Andrews ( ” Lost” ) has strong appeal for Daario. I can’t imagine skipping
    the Queen of Thornes character for Strong Belwas. Dame Maggie Smith or Judi
    Dench or Geraldine McEwan have my votes for QoT. The scenes could be few but
    climatic. Strong Belwas would be along for the long haul ( like Hodor ), always
    knowing he can be summoned. I can’t recall an actor for this role but bravado
    and brawn is needed. On a different note, what do you guys think of GoT Jacqen
    H’gar reference to the ” red god” instead of the ” faceless man”. I was so impressed
    with Tom’s performance that I paid less attention to his last scene with GoT Arya.
    I’m nearing the last 20 pages of ADWD and it struck me odd the script with the
    Red God appeasement and the principles of the temple in ADWD. Every time I heard
    red god in GoT I immediately thought of Rh’llor ( and Melissandre and the red
    priest that helped Victarrion). I thought nothing of it until I was asked by my non
    book acquaintance if Jacqen worked for Mel . I’m not so obsessed with a change
    of details to promote a interesting perspective for the series as long as the tweaking
    doesn’t constantly need explaining further into the future storyline. That would be
    amiss if it’s fundamental. I was annoyed with certain word changes like ” virgin
    for ” maiden” or ” coward instead of ” craven ” or apples and peaches. Most people understood those and would be petty to argue. I was disappointed with the repeated
    use of the word ” cunt ” however. I rate this series as higher than most I seen adapted
    to cable and remain impressed with the direction overall ( Qhorin and Jon S2 excepted).

  115. Christmas is coming
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Two words Neil Marshall!

    So people are getting worked up about strong belwas? Granted I find dany the least interesting character and I lightly skimmed over her chapters, but I think people are too attached to minor characters..A book with this many characters, some are bound to be chopped. People need to accept it.

    People who are saying things like D&D have ruined something, or it’s their fault or they have butched something, is completely uncalled for and unfair.

    These guys have done a fantastic job adapting this book! I think some fans are just always ungreatful

    Trying to adapt a book with thousands of characters a few are going to be chopped

  116. oierem
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    Those episodes were considered “the worst” (by some) because of the material (script) they had, and that has nothing to do with the director. Buf if you look at how the camera is used, you’ll see there’s a greater sense of scope and scale in Alan Taylor’s episodes, IMO.

  117. Knurk
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James:
    Arthur,

    You’re just trying to make Knurk go ballistic, aren’t you?

    lol, that would be like getting a Crème brûlée with a big turd on it. Or as Mel would say: “If half an onion is black with rot, it is a rotten onion.”

  118. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    MoonCoffee:
    OT, an audition clip for Daario: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JXdo3ySFBg

    Doesn’t seem like a scene from the book.

    The one reading the lines during the audition had a terrible English accent. If I was thy actor I would have just got up and left or requested some1 different to read the lines

  119. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Ross: Because the evidence is there.D&D have stated previously that they were desperate to get to season 3 to make the red wedding, which suggests it will be in season 3 not 4.The fact they have put their A-team on the final two episodes, and the fact that, so far, episode 9 has been the ‘big event’ episode, I think it’s fair to assume this will be the case.

    This

  120. Queensmoot
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    On the Daario audition:

    The scene sounded like Daario talking Sallor or Prendahl before he shortens them by a head. (maybe the Stormcrows will come over before Astapor instead of Yunkai) I think its a good idea to take advantage of the non-POV setup to show more of Daario’s brutality. Having him more actively violent rather than just all swagga will probably make him more likable to the non-readers. That actor was wrong for the part though.

    I have faith in TV Daario, he can’t be much worse than book Daario. In my last reread I tried to imagine him without the gold tooth and ridiculous beard and he’s not so bad. :shrug: Maybe I’m just an optimist.

  121. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    I’m actually rooting for D&D to cut Strong Belwas. Name one scene in which he is absolutely essential. His fight scenes? Barristan and Jorah are both very capable fighters. His most significant scene is when he is poisoned in ADWD so his introduction can be delayed. There is no way that the audience will be fooled by Ser Barristans disguise so no need to have him pose as a squire for Strong Belwas who’s probably just 3 levels above Cheswyck and Alayaya on the relevant scale.

  122. darquemode
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    Christmas is coming,

    I completely agree that some are too obsessed with or attracted to minor characters, but I can see a case for Strong Belwas maybe….

    Dany has lost most of her supporting cast this season with Rakharo, Irri, and Doreah gone. Daario and Arstan Whitebeard will arrive next year of course too. She should gain a handmaiden in Missandei next year, a bloodrider could step up to replace Rakharo I guess, but she could use some more supporting cast around her that will stay around a while in my opinion. I guess I don’t find that to be so many people in her arc that it could not handle another person in her camp like Belwas.

    That said, I can see most of Belwas’s events being merged into other roles fairly easily… outside of the of the more scatological event that is…

  123. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Morgan King:
    Ross,

    And that’s the problem – the Red Wedding is a surprise, not a huge confrontation but a shocking betrayal. Putting it in the most predictable place seems like a mistake to me. I’d much prefer it at episode 7 or 8 or to open Season 4.

    Th only reason u think it’s predictable is because u know what is going to happen. Baelor was in episode 9, did non readers see that coming? Hell no

  124. Knurk
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    I’m actually rooting for D&D to cut Strong Belwas. Name one scene in which he is absolutely essential. His fight scenes? Barristan and Jorah are both very capable fighters. His most significant scene is when he is poisoned in ADWD so his introduction can be delayed. There is no way that the audience will be fooled by Ser Barristans disguise so no need to have him pose as a squire for Strong Belwas who’s probably just 3 levels above Cheswyck and Alayaya on the relevant scale.

    so everyone who is not essential should be cut? That is probably the lamest argument I ever heard.

  125. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed:
    Naveen Andrews ( ” Lost” ) has strong appeal for Daario. I can’t imagine skipping
    the Queen of Thornes character for Strong Belwas. Dame Maggie Smith or Judi
    Dench or Geraldine McEwan have my votes for QoT. The scenes could be few but
    climatic. Strong Belwas would be along for the long haul ( like Hodor ), always
    knowing he can be summoned. I can’t recall an actor for this role but bravado
    and brawn is needed. On a different note, what do you guys think of GoT Jacqen
    H’gar reference to the ” red god” instead of the ” faceless man”. I was so impressed
    with Tom’s performance that I paid less attention to his last scene with GoT Arya.
    I’m nearing the last 20 pages of ADWD and it struck me odd the script with the
    Red God appeasement and the principles of the temple in ADWD. Every time I heard
    red god in GoT I immediately thought of Rh’llor ( and Melissandre and the red
    priest that helped Victarrion). I thought nothing of it until I was asked by my non
    book acquaintance if Jacqen worked for Mel . I’m not so obsessed with a change
    of details to promote a interesting perspective for the series as long as the tweaking
    doesn’t constantly need explaining further into the future storyline. That would be
    amiss if it’s fundamental. I was annoyed with certain word changes like ” virgin
    for ” maiden” or ” coward instead of ” craven ” or apples and peaches. Most peopleunderstood those and would be petty to argue. I was disappointed with the repeated
    use of the word ” cunt ” however. I rate this series as higher than most I seen adapted
    to cable and remain impressed with the direction overall ( Qhorin and Jon S2 excepted).

    Umm Jaqen saying “Red god” is in the book. Might want to reread

  126. JC
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Boo to Nutter directing the last episodes of next season. He’s a capable director for sure (and respected due to the ridiculous number of pilots he’s directed that have gone to series), but I find his shot composition to be mixed, with occasional great stuff but a lot of blandly composed shots as well. He’s no Alan Taylor, whose shots from beginning to end of episodes are just perfectly, beautifully composed in every way. I’m very disappointed that Nutter’s doing the last few episodes, especially if they include a certain big event in those episodes that I was hoping Taylor would get to direct.

    Marshall’s work on the show was really strong – much stronger than I expected it would be (and I’m a big fan of The Descent). I would love to see him come back.

    Alik Sakharov’s episode this season was fantastic as well. Gorgeously shot in every way, and well-acted and paced, would love to see him direct more.

    Like the mention of Allen Coulter above.

    Also love the suggestion of Jeremy Podeswa. Fantastic and reliable director for HBO. True story – I once borrowed his Six Feet Under umbrella from my internship coordinator who was house-sitting for him because it was absolutely storming outside and totally forgot it at Bloor Cinema in Toronto…luckily they found it the next day but I was freaking out for a day or two there lol.

    Speaking of directors who have done work for HBO in the past, would LOVE to see Todd Field do an episode. I know he’s a features director now but considering he did the ep of Carnivale after In the Bedroom, I could see him coming back to do an episode or two for HBO on occasion. He reminds me of Sam Mendes but with a darker edge – I think he would get across some of the same lyricism that Alan Taylor brought to the table. Besides which, he hasn’t put anything out since Little Children in 2006 so maybe he would have the time.

  127. darquemode
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    Knurk,

    I agree….
    I think some non-essential characters should be cut for sure, but not ALL.

    In parts of the story like King’s Landing where so many characters are gathered I can see more cut easily, The Riverlands too for the same reason. However in Dany’s arc I think there is more room since there are so few characters around her.

    Plus I think one could make fairly decent argument that while most of Belwas’s actions are not essential, he is essential to the mood of Dany’s arc. His character may be a bit of a clown, but he steals several scenes in the book and sets a tone for her camp that I’m not sure anyone else could do like he does. Daenerys’ arc is fairly boring at times (even in a TV series condensed format) and he provides some needed comic relief.

    I’m still not sure he is “needed”, but I think if he is erased from the series he will certainly be missed.

  128. jkb
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak: Th only reason u think it’s predictable is because u know what is going to happen. Baelor was in episode 9, did non readers see that coming? Hell no

    what he meant is (i think) people will be expecting *something* big to happen in ep 9. one of the reasons RW is an utter WTF moment (except for it being a total WTF event on itself ;p) is that it happens like halfway thru the book? when no one expects it.

    imo ep 5-8 for RW (i opted for season finale before, but i’ve been convinced it would be too much of a downer for most TV viewers)

  129. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    Knurk: so everyone who is not essential should be cut? That is probably the lamest argument I ever heard.

    How is that a lame excuse? There simply isn’t enough financial resources or time to cast every minor character.

  130. SugarVampire
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Imho, most directors of GoT are very good. They all have great scenes. What distinguished one from another in my mind is whether or not a director can avoid the pitfalls in a script and delivered a consistent performance.

    In season 1, episodes 9 and 10 had a vastly different tone and look than the rest with the exception of episode 1 (a reshooted pilot with lots of readjustment.) The camera angles and the flow of the camera made them more of a film than a TV/sitcom setting in episodes 2-8. The pacings also allowed the performances to shine. That’s why Alan Taylor was highly praised in the off seasons.

    In season 2, Alan Taylor directed 4 episodes: 1, 2, 8, 10. Episode 8 was almost an impossible task given the script. The main characters were all in holding patterns. Tyrion’s dialog with Bronn and Varys was silly. Qhorin/Jon’s story was weak. Dany’s scene in episode 8 was totally unnecessary and counter-productive, yet I am not sure AT could take them out as it seemed to be the showrunner’s decision to include that.

    The good parts was still quite good. Yara’s farewell to Theon was nicely done with the tenderness of a sister shone through. Tyrion/Cercei/Shae was great.

    Similarly, episode 10 packed too much compared to episode 9. It is impossible to take out the Ros scene (D&D’s decision), placed guards for King of Qarth (required some times that a packed episode didn’t have), Jon/Qhorin fight (too late to clarify the sacrifice) and the non-reveal of who burnt winterfell (D&D’s decision).

    Theon, Tyrion/Shae, Tyrion/Pycelle, Sansa/Joffrey/Tyrells/Tywin, Osha/Luwin, Jaime/Brienne were all done quite well.

    The parts that were not done well by Alan Taylor that he could control, imho, were the wedding vow of Robb/Talisa (could have included the old gods), the burning of Pyat Pree (the fire angles were awkward, could have a few shadowly undyings to burn alongside Pyat Pree) and the Sam/whitewalker encounter.

    Ultimately, I think D&D and Alan Taylor had taken on too much workload in season 2 and their works suffered from a lack of further marination.

  131. Zack
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    darquemode: That said, I can see most of Belwas’s events being merged into other roles fairly easily… outside of the of the more scatological event that is…

    Which is precisely why we need a Belwas. lol

    He is one of the best aspects of Dany’s chapters IMO, just the mood he brings with his appearances. He will be a fan favorite if they do him justice, I’m sure of it.

  132. Knurk
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    of course we can’t have every minor character, but simply cutting a character because he’s minor is a bad excuse. The question you should ask is: Will this character make good tv? And not: Can we cut this character without damaging the plot?

    For most fans of the book Strong Belwas most certainly adds something to the story, just like Dolorous Edd. I’m probably shooting my own foot here by saying this story isn’t simply about advancing the plot (GRRM has recently stated his books were never about the plot, something that actually did make me very angry), but also about the awesome characters in this world.

  133. SugarVampire
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    Neil Marshall was very good in the quieter scenes of Blackwater : Cercei/Sansa, Joffrey/Tyrion/Lancel/Hound, Cercei/Tommen.

    On a sidenote, David Nutter is not a bad choice for episode 9 and 10 in season 3. He handled the Rodrik death scene and chaotic King’s Landing mob scene with aplomb. I am confident he can handle RW and the immediate aftermath. I am a bit worry about the Hound/Arya scene outside of the Twins as most likely it will be a much changed and embellished ones which could lead to charcter inconsistencies he sometimes overlooked.

  134. Andrew
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    The reason non-readers didn’t see it coming was because it was the first time it happened. After Baelor, and now Blackwater, a lot of them are going to start expecting something to happen in episode 9, because this will be the third time it does. I too hope they change it up and put the climax in another episode, perhaps even the finale itself.

    I’m not familiar with this DP’s work, but D&D haven’t steered us wrong yet with their choice of crew. He’s an ASC and CSC member, so he’s obviously doing something right!

  135. Queensmoot
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    The major events in the penultimate episode is an HBO thing. The Wire did it, as have others:

    Treme spoilers:
    I didn’t see Steve Earle’s death coming, and that was a penultimate episode hit.

    I think people will still be surprised by the nature of the events, if not their timing.

  136. Lex
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    Knurk,

    If that’s the case, why don’t you love ADWD? Strong Belwas has some awesome scenes, and it’s definitely a book that favors character over plot.

    EDIT: Just saw your comment about shooting yourself in the foot, lol.

  137. Lex
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    SugarVampire,

    Nice post, I agree with many of your points. And I’ve enjoyed most of Alan Taylor’s work on this show. I’m just saying he’s not perfect. I’m sad to lose him, but I’m willing to see what new directors can bring to the table.

  138. Alan
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    Knurk:
    Turncloak,

    of course we can’t have every minor character, but simply cutting a character because he’s minor is a bad excuse. The question you should ask is: Will this character make good tv? And not: Can we cut this character without damaging the plot?

    For most fans of the book Strong Belwas most certainly adds something to the story, just like Dolorous Edd. I’m probably shooting my own foot here by saying this story isn’t simply about advancing the plot (GRRM has recently stated his books were never about the plot, something that actually did make me very angry), but also about the awesome characters in this world.

    There aren’t a lot of good books out there that are about plot. Plot is there to advance character and/or thematic element in almost anything of quality.

    Martin never wrote the books simply to entertain. The books very clearly have strong characters and several, consistent themes that come across as very important to the author. So it really shouldn’t be a shock. And why would that make you angry?

    It’s art. If it doesn’t have something to say, it’s something less. That doesn’t mean it can’t or shouldn’t be entertaining. But something without something to say isn’t art.

  139. Knurk
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    Lex:
    Knurk,

    If that’s the case, why don’t you love ADWD? Strong Belwas has some awesome scenes, and it’s definitely a book that favors character over plot.

    EDIT: Just saw your comment about shooting yourself in the foot, lol.

    ha yes, Strong Belwas definitely had me fistpumping everytime he got mentioned in the book. Too bad he got so little screentime or he could have saved that horrible Meereen storyline for me, because everyone else on that continent bored the fuck out of me. I always said I didn’t mind the focus on the characters in ADWD that much, what I did mind is that most characters are very boring and uninteresting in ADWD (save for Strong Belwas, Bran, Davos and Theon probably).

  140. Knurk
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    it made me angry because he used it as an excuse for all the travelogue and endless fooddescriptions he filled ADWD with. So I don’t consider ADWD art because 98% of that book had indeed nothing to say.

    Edited to say that I do think the lack of plot is a fair complaint about ADWD btw. When you have 3 books in a series full of plotadvancement it’s a bit rude to say to your readers: “My books were never about plot.”

    God, I can’t believe after 1 year that shit still pisses me off lol.

  141. The Instrumentalist
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    Again, no opinion, just trying to keep the peace… I don’t know why I bother commenting here. Everyone is so venomous. -_-”

  142. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    I think I read someone mention replacing Belwas with Ros. Since Ros looks like she now can be in Varys employment. Can you imagine seeing Strong Ros in action!

  143. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    Knurk,

    I do think it has some plot advancements : Quentyn gets fried probably Turning the Martells against Dany. Tyrion reaches Mereen and joins the second sons. Aegon recruits the Golden Company and invades Westeros. Theon and Jeyne(it rhymes with pain) escape Ramsay. Jon Snow let’s the wildlings through the Wall and gets possibly murdered. Bran meets the blood raven. Dany rides a dragon for the first time. Victorian is sailing to Mereen to kidnap Dany and tame her dragon. Etc

  144. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    The Instrumentalist,

    We promise to be better :). Dnt leave us for westeros.org, I hear they have a scary harpy lady there writing game of thrones reviews

  145. WildSeed
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    Thanks for the reply Turncloak. I’m amazed at how much I wrote earlier. After a brief
    search the Jaqen H’gar / Red god passage, I came up empty. I’ll pose the question at
    another fansite for book discussion where it would be more appropriate than here.
    I never would have posted about if it didn’t represent tweaking the GoT script. Still,
    I responded to my buddy like I knew what I was talkin’ about. I actually told her
    to re-read the book as you cautioned me (:

  146. darquemode
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Clash of Kings: Chapter 31/ Arya VII
    (About half way in the chapter)
    Jaqen ~ “A man pays his debts. A man owes three.”
    Arya ~ “Three?”
    Jaqen ~ “The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life. This girl took three that were his. This girl must give three in their places. Speak the names, and a man will do the rest.”

  147. tysnow
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    I believe he should have said, that to save on money and allow other more important actors screen time to flesh out, some less essential characters might and could be cut. Thereby giving their actions/lines to others, or scaping completely. Remember we can’t have our cake and eat it too, sacrifices will be made; the problem with fans is they don’t want them to be their fan fav’s, etc.
    Although SoS will span most of 3 and 4, I figure the last 3 episodes of 4 will feature material from both DwD and AFfC, afterall D&D said recently, that they decided to forgo the book per season format and just let the story develop organically for the screen.

  148. tysnow
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    OT, 4th season sales of TB, both BR and DVD exceeded one million (total) for the first week. I believe GoT is at 2 mil now, 900k for DVD’s and a mil for BR.

  149. SugarVampire
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    I am very happy for Alan Taylor as I am a Thor fan. New bloods are good as they can inject new energy to a long running series which could get tangled up with complacency.

    p.s. Love your contribution to APoIaF. Amin, Kyle, Ashley were hilarious. Good to hear Phil and AxeChucker voiced their views without much reseveration. Would you do some commenting over there soon? Don’t always agree you, but your comments are always thoughful and measured. I do miss Mimi though. Well, life goes on.

  150. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    tysnow,

    Good for True Blood and HBO. The better True Blood does, the more money HBO has to spend for other shows, including Game of Thrones. I don’t really understand this whole rivalry between the shows.

  151. WildSeed
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Thank you so much. I’ll quote this and tell my friend you are an expert so
    I don’t look so bad. Maybe I’ll leave the page number off though.

  152. boyo
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    JC:
    Boo to Nutter directing the last episodes of next season. He’s a capable director for sure (and respected due to the ridiculous number of pilots he’s directed that have gone to series), but I find his shot composition to be mixed, with occasional great stuff but a lot of blandly composed shots as well. He’s no Alan Taylor, whose shots from beginning to end of episodes are just perfectly, beautifully composed in every way. I’m very disappointed that Nutter’s doing the last few episodes, especially if they include a certain big event in those episodes that I was hoping Taylor would get to direct.

    That could be why he’s bringing in an accomplished DP with visual flair for those episodes.

  153. darquemode
    Posted June 12, 2012 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Ha! XD
    Although truth be told, I’m less of an expert and more just able to use the kindle app on my tablet! XD

  154. Jordan Healey
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 1:22 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    I liked episode 2 and 8 and I hated episode 3,4, 5 and 6

    so YMMV.

  155. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 1:44 am | Permalink

    OT: Does anyone know what the two winners of the HBO shop merchandise ‘competition’ were? I thought there were a ton of great ideas in that thread, so I’m sure whatever won had to be awesome and I want it now (didn’t HBO say they’d make the winner, or at least consider it?).

  156. eudaimonean
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 3:20 am | Permalink

    Knurk,

    You know, I rather liked DWD, but I pretty much agree with you. I think it’s clear that the things most people loved about B1-3 are not evident in B4-5, and that the things I (an “professional” critics) liked about B5 were not the things that people loved about B1-3. So it’s fair to have a personal reaction of “this is not what I signed up for” even if I personally think that B5 was a very good read.

  157. Michael Tschuertz
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 4:59 am | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    oh yes!

  158. Ross
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 5:04 am | Permalink

    winterfell: Wow, you’re the first person i’ve seen to incorporate a backhanded Ros comment into a post on this website. You are SO witty and original. Congratulations on not being a crowd follwing sheep and for having your own original thoughts.
    This is sarcasm, if your utterly brilliant mind couldn’t pick up on it.Which im sure you could because youre so smart and original. (Unlike Ros, right? right?)

    I think you’re being a bit unfair on Impi there. I don’t think he was slating Ros. And indeed, Impi makes a point here which I think might be a very astute one – I hadn’t even considered that Varys’ plans for Ros might be to send her along with Selmy to protect / keep an eye on Dany. In the context of the TV programme it actually makes sense. But I agree with Impi, I wouldn’t particularly like it. And I actually quite like the Ros character.

  159. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    Knurk:
    Alan,

    it made me angry because he used it as an excuse for all the travelogue and endless fooddescriptions he filled ADWD with. So I don’t consider ADWD art because 98% of that book had indeed nothing to say.

    Edited to say that I do think the lack of plot is a fair complaint about ADWD btw. When you have 3 books in a series full of plotadvancement it’s a bit rude to say to your readers: “My books were never about plot.”

    God, I can’t believe after 1 year that shit still pisses me off lol.

    Saying “my books were never about plot” is like the Lost showrunners saying “our show was always about characters and mysteries don’t matter”. We all know how that show turned out. This gives me even less hope for a satisfying conclusion to the book series than before.

  160. Macha
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 5:55 am | Permalink

    Great news about David Nutter, I’m all for it!
    I also wish for Minahan to come back for season 3, I missed him this season.
    Alik Sakharov has done a fantastic job, his episode is still my favourite in terms of direction. Neil Marshall goes without saying, he’s a must for battle heavy episodes.
    While I greatly enjoyed Alan Taylor’s episodes in season 1, AND even episode 18 for the most part, I found his work in season 2 a bit lacking. Just a matter of personal taste.

    Oh, and to touch upon another subject, I’m willing to bet on anything that GRRM will not be writing the RW, I’m convinced D&D will want to tackle that one themselves.

  161. sjwenings
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    Ross,

    I think this makes some sense also. And if Ros came along, she might be Danys’ servant/lover now that Irris’ out.

  162. Michael Tschuertz
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 7:18 am | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    she could play the part of Lollys Stokeworth?

  163. Rimshot
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    Direhound: I’d really be interested to see what Tom McCarthy brought to the table in the season 1 unaired pilot. His relationship with Dinklage is I’m sure what got him the gig so maybe for a Tyrion heavy episode in next season.

    I worked on the pilot, specifically the sparring scene between Tommen & Bran at Winterfell. I’d love to see how this and the whole pilot turned out. It was a very interesting scene to work on. Even then Joffrey was a shit! It’s very strange having a ‘deleted scene’ in my head but I can’t share it with anyone!

  164. Zack
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    Ew, that’s a depressingly good point.

  165. Knurk
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky: Saying “my books were never about plot” is like the Lost showrunners saying “our show was always about characters and mysteries don’t matter”. We all know how that show turned out. This gives me even less hope for a satisfying conclusion to the book series than before.

    good point, the irony of course here is that GRRM was angry himself with the Lost-writers for writing such an unsatisfying conclusion. By the end (if he ever finishes the series which I think is very unlikely) he’ll probably regret ever talking about the ending of Lost.

  166. Arthur
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    If that happens, I won’t be watching the TV series.

  167. Ross
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    Knurk: good point, the irony of course here is that GRRM was angry himself with the Lost-writers for writing such an unsatisfying conclusion. By the end (if he ever finishes the series which I think is very unlikely) he’ll probably regret ever talking about the ending of Lost.

    I think ultimately he is writing to satisfy himself – which is absolutely right for an author in my opinion – but, what satisfies him has clearly shifted from fast-paced plotting to exploring the vast world he has created. I think he probably acknowledges he needs to reign it all in and get stuff moving again (I have read interviews to that effect) so if and when he does finish his masterpiece, I think we will see a much more focussed and dare I say it, exciting finish. Hope so anyway.

    It certainly bears no comparison with Lost (or rather vice versa) which despite some early promise, was woefully written, made up as it went along, and complete and utter trash in my opinion.

  168. Alan
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    Knurk:
    Alan,

    it made me angry because he used it as an excuse for all the travelogue and endless fooddescriptions he filled ADWD with. So I don’t consider ADWD art because 98% of that book had indeed nothing to say.

    Edited to say that I do think the lack of plot is a fair complaint about ADWD btw. When you have 3 books in a series full of plotadvancement it’s a bit rude to say to your readers: “My books were never about plot.”

    God, I can’t believe after 1 year that shit still pisses me off lol.

    It had something to say. Just because you didn’t enjoy it or weren’t interested doesn’t mean it had nothing to say.

    Both Dany and Jon’s stories were hugely interesting to me and very relatable to real life. Dany is a superpower with nuclear weapons trying to occupy a hostile location. The choices she needs to make are very similar to the choices and situations that a country like the United States was and is making in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. Conquering is often the easiest part, and trying to balance what you feel are imperative right and wrongs with not alienating the entire population is a balance every occupier must face.

    I personally found it fascinating. You obviously didn’t. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. You could argue since a lot of people didn’t like it, it wasn’t as effective as say, aSoS, at least as entertainment. But it was there. That’s what I got, what many others got, and what Martin has said was there. It’s not a traditional fantasy — and Dance is not so in different ways.

    Jon faces a similar situation in that his failures of leadership involve failure to inspire and motivate, failure to get “buy in” in modern speak, failure to find effective compromises. He makes great tactical and strategic decisions for the war with the others, but gets hamstrung by his subordinates. For me, living in the corporate world, this was eminently relatable and fascinating to me. YMMV.

    I can enjoy the stories that Martin wrote early on — the political backstabbing and the hero stories, all made more interesting by fast paced writing and a plot that didn’t always go the way you wanted.

    But I can also enjoy something like Dance, which takes a more nuanced look at power. I understand people may not like the slower pace, and let’s be honest, a lot of this kind of look at power dynamics can bore people who don’t relate. I get it. I’m not saying you’re dumber or I’m better for enjoying it.

    But don’t say it’s not there. Because it is.

  169. The Kingslayer
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Off topic – I just heard Henry Ian Cusick’s schedule is now free. IMO he’d make a good Mance.

  170. KG
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    I think the problem with Lost is that the original intent was “They’re all dead, no one will EVER figure it out!”

    Then people figured out that painfully obvious twist by the end of the pilot, and they had to spend the remaining years of the show trying to figure out a new ending.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that the ASoIaF has a direct correlation in Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon. GRRM is still working on damage control; that’s why Jon and Dany’s stories stalled so completely.

  171. PatD
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    I think most of the criticism about Alan Taylor’s work on the second season have more to do with editing than directing. I find every episode he directs has an, I dunno, soulfulness, that is missing in most other episodes.

    Also I think some people overrate how great Marshall really is considering he had the biggest battle in the series on his episode not to mention that it was written by GRRM so of course it was the best episode of the season .

    I don’t think anyone can overrate the job this guy did with one week’s notice. I’d love to see what he could do with a normal amount of prep time. Plus, let’s not forget he directed those great Cersei scenes. Probably Headey’s best work on the show.

    Oh man, I am all over that suggestion of Susanna White. She’s one of HBO’s best kept secrets. Ed Burns brought her in to direct the first few episodes of Generation Kill, and everyone was like, What??? A woman director for this seriously dark, violent show? And her episodes wound up being the show’s best by leaps and bounds. They brought in other directors for the middle of the series, and when Susanna returned for the last episode, the difference in quality was huge. She does battles like nobody’s business. D&D are always talking about this being a feminist show. Well, here’s their chance to put their money where their mouths are. White also has a lot of experience with period drama. She directed a bunch of episodes for HBO’s upcoming adaptation of Ford Madox Ford’s Parade’s End (OMG, I can’t wait for this series).

  172. andrea
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    And I think I have a shitty memory: since last year, some of you are belittling minor characters and their fans, yet the producers showed their willingness to include the majority of them (Blackfish, Reeds, etc). I don´t understand why we´re already talking about the same thing . You don´t give a damn about the Blackfish or the useless Reeds? You think Strong Belwas is not funny enough? Well, despite some of you, others will have the opportunity to watch their favorite character come to life. I mean, it´s really necessary all the disdain and debate all over again? Weird.
    Talking about minor characters people love: If I understand correctly someone here is thinking that Missandei will be replaced by Ross (because she can´t, in any way, replace Belwas, of course). Please Ross, Astapor is not the place for a lady like yourself.
    I´d love to see a serious little girl with strong voice. That´s funny and cute.
    I don´t care if it is in season 3, 4, or 10.

  173. Alan
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    andrea:
    And I think I have a shitty memory: since last year, some of you are belittling minor characters and their fans, yet the producers showed their willingness to include the majority of them (Blackfish, Reeds, etc). I don´t understand why we´re already talking about the same thing . You don´t give a damn about the Blackfish or the useless Reeds? You think Strong Belwas is not funny enough? Well, despite some of you, others will have the opportunity to watchtheir favorite character come to life.I mean, it´s really necessary all the disdain and debate all over again? Weird.
    Talking about minor characters people love: If I understand correctly someone here is thinking that Missandeiwill be replaced by Ross (because she can´t, in any way, replaceBelwas, of course). Please Ross, Astapor is not the place for a lady like yourself.
    I´d love to see a serious little girl with strong voice. That´s funny and cute.
    I don´t care if it is in season 3, 4, or 10.

    Part of what makes the series the series is the side characters. To eliminate everyone that is not absolutely necessary would change things drastically. To eliminate some, not so much.

    D&D obviously understand this. That’s why Rakharo and Irri were given screentime to flesh themselves out (and even aspects not in the books). It’s why Podrick is still around. It’s why we saw a glimpse of Maege Mormont.

    Yes, characters are going to be minimized and delayed and sometimes cut, but many of them will make it.

    That’s a long way of saying, don’t mourn for Missandei or Strong Belwas yet.

  174. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    It had something to say. Just because you didn’t enjoy it or weren’t interested doesn’t mean it had nothing to say.

    Some of it had something to say, some of it was mainly GRRM doing everything in order to stall the plot.

    The parts of ADWD that I disliked were all from Essos side of the story (except for Victarion, but I love Ironborn in general). I liked Jon’s story – his story was basically an example of Kobayashi Maru scenario. Whatever he did, the outcome couldn’t be good. The Night’s Watch as the world knew it for several thousand years, is gone. My favorite part of the book was Theon’s story, that some of the best GRRM writing ever.

    Dany is a superpower with nuclear weapons trying to occupy a hostile location. The choices she needs to make are very similar to the choices and situations that a country like the United States was and is making in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. Conquering is often the easiest part, and trying to balance what you feel are imperative right and wrongs with not alienating the entire population is a balance every occupier must face.

    Except she doesn’t know how to use her nuclear weapons and has no idea about ruling, no matter whom. In addition to that, she’s surrounded by people who don’t dare to stand up to her and tell her the hard truths. Hell, even a honorable guy like Barristan Selmy didn’t tell her all the truth about her father. And because of that she fucks up utterly and completely. This could’ve been an interesting story, if we didn’t see the same thing with Cercei in AFFC. There Cercei also vastly overestimates her ruling abilities and is also surrounded by people who can’t stand up to her and tell her that she’s a fucking idiot.
    Dany’s story is a story of a person who maybe wishes well, but has absolutely no abilities or means to make her wishes come true. There’s no good way out of this story – either she succeeds through some magical bullshit or sudden help from someone unexpected or she and everyone who helped her dies, turning her story into a decent tragedy piece (the outcome I prefer).

    But I can also enjoy something like Dance, which takes a more nuanced look at power. I understand people may not like the slower pace, and let’s be honest, a lot of this kind of look at power dynamics can bore people who don’t relate.

    Slower pace wasn’t the problem here. The problem was that the book ended with lots of cliffhangers, some chapters had no reason to be in the book and some of the stuff he reportedly wrote and had to be in this book, was removed by him or his worthless editor (Winterfell and Meereen battles). This book came out unfinished and needed a much better editing.

  175. MRR
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    This is great news, as Nutter’s episodes were among my favorites this season. Episode 6 is probably my favorite overall – yes, I liked it better than Blackwater. :P

    And regarding “surprises”…
    The Red Wedding really wasn’t much of a surprise at all. At least not to me – I knew Robb was a dead man the moment I read that he broke his pact, and Catelyn’s attitude leading up to the wedding itself is absolutely full of apprehension. There’s also a fair bit of direct foreshadowing with what Arya overhears from the Freys and Boltons at Harrenhal, not to mention Dany’s vision in the House of the Undying.

    My point, however, isn’t to suggest that I’m just clever for figuring this out before it came to fruition. The point is that it’s not just about surprises. It’s not about what happens so much as it’s about how it happens. It was still riveting to read, even if I had a good idea of what was going to happen.

  176. andrea
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    Alan: Part of what makes the series the series is the side characters

    Luckily, is not all about leading characters and beautiful castles, . I truly love minor characters, they give depth and humor and reality to every story or main character. That´s why I don´t understand the “weirdness” . Is the same thing with extras (and that awful phrase that some use around here, “is just a glorifying extra”). You need them in the background or all around to make scenes look real enough. People should remember sometimes, no matter if you like a character or not. You can´t have them all of course, but some must be there.

  177. andrea
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky: This could’ve been an interesting story, if we didn’t see the same thing with Cercei in AFFC. There Cercei also vastly overestimates her ruling abilities and is also surrounded by people who can’t stand up to her and tell her that she’s a fucking idiot.

    yes, thank you! This is exactly what I think every time someone says that most women are strong in this series. I mean, I can understand Daenerys because she´s a teenager (and you can´t reason with them) but Cersei…

  178. OtherAndrew
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    Hey, seems like everybody has missed an important clue in that Daario video how Dany’s storyline will play out in S3. The video contains the lines “There are 8000 Unsullied standing between her and your cock” and “If we meet her in an open battle, her eunuchs will crush us.” This makes it pretty clear that Astapor and the taking of the Unsullied will NOT be moved to the very end of the season (as some, including me, have speculated), and will occur midseason, before she meets Mero and Daario, just like in the books.

  179. Winter Is Coming
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    OtherAndrew:
    Hey, seems like everybody has missed an important clue in that Daario video how Dany’s storyline will play out in S3. The video contains the lines “There are 8000 Unsullied standing between her and your cock” and “Ifwe meet her in an open battle, her eunuchs will crush us.” This makes it pretty clear that Astapor and the taking of the Unsullied will NOT be moved to the very end of the season (as some, including me, have speculated), and will occur midseason, before she meets Mero and Daario, just like in the books.

    Not necessarily. The scene that the actors use to audition isn’t always one that will be in that season, or even in the show at all.

  180. Lex
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Since we’re talking about ADWD…

    I’m currently re-reading it (getting close to the end), and really enjoying it. I’m even enjoying the Dany and Tyrion story lines more than the first time.

    There’s no question that Book 4 and 5 are less exciting than the first three (less plot advancement, less shocking moments, etc.), but they’re still very enjoyable books. Book 4 and 5 are probably the weakest in the series, but the sheer of scope and worldbuilding are pretty awesome. The problem is that I think only hardcore fans would appreciate that type of stuff, whereas more casual fans would probably find the last two books on the boring side.

    Still, the reviews on Amazon.com are, IMO, totally ridiculous. They’d have you believe ADWD is complete garbage, which it is not.

  181. JC
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    PatD,

    Exactly. Alan Taylor brings the lyricism to the show imo. I’ve been saying that since Baelor – he was the first to really bring the show to a whole new visual level (though I really liked Kirk’s work on The Wolf and the Lion). It was immediately obvious how much he outclassed the other directors (who were all very good) on the show and it was not surprising to me in the least when Benioff and Weiss brought him back for four episodes this season and said his episodes are everything they strive for the show to be.

    People are taking issue with some of the episodes he did this season (like episode 8) – well the problems people are having are more problems inherent in the writing of the episode, not the directing of it.

    In film, a director has some degree of responsibility in that sense as well, but on TV, where the directors are brought in to translate the writers’ vision to screen, I don’t see problems with the script as a reason to critique the director. And on the flipside, when episodes are shocking and full of events, I don’t think that’s an automatic “oh the director did a great job” either. Like I suspect the people who are all over Nutter for episode 6 love that episode more because a ton of shit happens than because his style actually elevated the show and brought something more to the table.

    Alan Taylor brought a beautiful style, gorgeous composition and bold camera movements, solid direction of the actors, and a naturalism to his episodes that makes Westeros feel like a real place. Just look at a shot like the one in the first episode this season where Daenerys sends Rakharo and the riders off, and the camera revolves around her as one rides off and comes back around to her front as the other rider rides off in the distance behind her. A bold camera choice that in one shot, gets across a ton of visual information with a sense of grandeur and a subtle visual punctuation on how these people’s lives all revolve around and hinge upon her (and perhaps how things feel like they are spinning out of her control). This is but one example of what Alan Taylor brought to the table. He doesn’t simply take the script and translate it with functional shots that tell the literal story (like some of these other directors have). He creates shots that are not only functional but elegant and invests them with meaning, so that the camera is PART of the story and not simply observing it. That’s what a GREAT director does.

    Obviously the cinematographer is also part of that – but it just goes to show that there’s a consistency with Taylor cause he’s worked with several cinematographers on the show (his collaboration with Alik Sakharov in the final two eps last season being the best of the bunch, not surprisingly) and yet you can still see his distinctive ability to infuse shots with meaning above and beyond the simple conveyance of the storyline.

    This is why it is no surprise that Taylor is going on to big feature film work.

  182. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    JC:
    PatD,

    Exactly. Alan Taylor brings the lyricism to the show imo. I’ve been saying that since Baelor – he was the first to really bring the show to a whole new visual level (though I really liked Kirk’s work on The Wolf and the Lion). It was immediately obvious how much he outclassed the other directors (who were all very good) on the show and it was not surprising to me in the least when Benioff and Weiss brought him back for four episodes this season and said his episodes are everything they strive for the show to be…

    Just look at a shot like the one in the first episode this season where Daenerys sends Rakharo and the riders off, and the camera revolves around her as one rides off and comes back around to her front as the other rider rides off in the distance behind her. A bold camera choice that in one shot, gets across a ton of visual information with a sense of grandeur and a subtle visual punctuation on how these people’s lives all revolve around and hinge upon her (and perhaps how things feel like they are spinning out of her control). This is but one example of what Alan Taylor brought to the table. He doesn’t simply take the script and translate it with functional shots that tell the literal story (like some of these other directors have). He creates shots that are not only functional but elegant and invests them with meaning, so that the camera is PART of the story and not simply observing it. That’s what a GREAT director does…

    This is why it is no surprise that Taylor is going on to big feature film work.

    A woman appreciates this explanation of how a director can take the technical task of filming an episode and turn it into art. Well said, thank you. Sometimes it is difficult for an outsider to evaluate what makes a director great or not when the viewer is focusing mostly on the characters and stories rather than the way it’s been shown. No doubt, without good direction this show would fall into “corny medieval,” but the directors help to elevate the material and add depth that may not have even been on the page they were given. This woman will be watching both seasons again, and will be more aware of these choices now that you have pointed them out. It’s been a long time since that cinema class in college! Love learning new insights into the process while waiting for the new season.

  183. OtherAndrew
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming, are you referring to back in S1 where actors read scenes directly from the books for the audition? Because those were scenes from the books, not made-up audition-scenes. The three audition videos we’ve seen this year are all newly-written scenes that seem designed specifically to fit the needs of the show. And we know the scripts are done. Is there any reason at all that they would invent entirely new scenes from scratch for the actors to audition with, or any evidence that such a thing has happened before with this show?

  184. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    OtherAndrew:
    Winter Is Coming, are you referring to back in S1 where actors read scenes directly from the books for the audition? Because those were scenes from the books, not made-up audition-scenes. The three audition videos we’ve seen this year are all newly-written scenes that seem designed specifically to fit the needs of the show. And we know the scripts are done. Is there any reason at all that they would invent entirely new scenes from scratch for the actors to audition with, or any evidence that such a thing has happened before with this show?

    It is known that often scripts are written in the “voice” of the characters strictly for auditioning so that spoilers don’t leak out. This could be the case with any/all that we see now, or could be exerpts from real scripts. We may not know till the season plays out.

  185. Winter Is Coming
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    OtherAndrew, if it is a wholly new scene, then you might be right. I was under the impression it was a scene from the books. It’s been a while since I read A Storm of Swords.

  186. Alan
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky:
    Alan,

    Some of it had something to say, some of it was mainly GRRM doing everything in order to stall the plot.

    The parts of ADWD that I disliked were all from Essos side of the story (except for Victarion, but I love Ironborn in general). I liked Jon’s story – his story was basically an example of Kobayashi Maru scenario. Whatever he did, the outcome couldn’t be good. The Night’s Watch as the world knew it for several thousand years, is gone. My favorite part of the book was Theon’s story, that some of the best GRRM writing ever.

    Except she doesn’t know how to use her nuclear weapons and has no idea about ruling, no matter whom. In addition to that, she’s surrounded by people who don’t dare to stand up to her and tell her the hard truths. Hell, even a honorable guy like Barristan Selmy didn’t tell her all the truth about her father. And because of that she fucks up utterly and completely. This could’ve been an interesting story, if we didn’t see the same thing with Cercei in AFFC. There Cercei also vastly overestimates her ruling abilities and is also surrounded by people who can’t stand up to her and tell her that she’s a fucking idiot.
    Dany’s story is a story of a person who maybe wishes well, but has absolutely no abilities or means to make her wishes come true. There’s no good way out of this story – either she succeeds through some magical bullshit or sudden help from someone unexpected or she and everyone who helped her dies, turning her story into a decent tragedy piece (the outcome I prefer).

    Slower pace wasn’t the problem here. The problem was that the book ended with lots of cliffhangers, some chapters had no reason to be in the book and some of the stuff he reportedly wrote and had to be in this book, was removed by him or his worthless editor (Winterfell and Meereen battles). This book came out unfinished and needed a much better editing.

    And that’s fine. I’m not really going to disagree there. I’d have preferred a tighter ending on the both the stories you mentioned. I still think the book’s my second favorite of the series anyway. Perhaps if those were included it would surpass Storm for me.

    I only will disagree with two things. Martin wasn’t stalling. The point of the story for him is not to get to the end. What both you and I found in Dany’s story is the point of the story for him. It is not unusual for someone in power to not be told the truth, etc. These are consistent themes for him, and I’m sure he’d agree that her situation, like almost all occupiers, are in a very difficult and possibly impossible situation.

    I’d disagree on two more little points: Dany does know how to use her nuclear weapons — but they aren’t tactical weapons (like our strategic nuclear arsenal) and they have uncontrollable consequences (ditto). She could let them free, but innocents will die (ditto) and you can’t localize the attack (ditto).

    And it’s not the same as Cersei’s story. Cersei, while facing some of the same challenges, has none of the occupation issues that Dany is dealing with. More importantly, though, is the contrast of how the two react. That’s part of the story. It’s not a repeat (like frankly much of Ned and Robb), but two stories that create a comparison.

    But either way, my point was not that people should like it. It’s that the claims of “pointlessness” are off base. This is the story. Martin’s story serves the themes and characters he wants to discuss. That’s the goal. Jon and Dany’s story were obviously two situations he wanted to tackle. If you didn’t like he execution, fine, but don’t pretend the author isn’t saying anything there — that it’s travelogue and descriptions of food.

  187. tysnow
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    NEWSFLASH!….

    D&D used W’s (as in Prez) decapitated head during the first season.

    behold and dispair or celebrate whichever floats your Bertha

  188. andrea
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    JC:… and a naturalism to his episodes that makes Westeros feel like a real place.

    especially this. I didn´t realize that AT also directed episode 2 which along with 8 were the best for me.

  189. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Dany does know how to use her nuclear weapons — but they aren’t tactical weapons (like our strategic nuclear arsenal) and they have uncontrollable consequences (ditto). She could let them free, but innocents will die (ditto) and you can’t localize the attack (ditto).

    If you know how to pull the trigger (which is essentially all Dany knows about her dragons), it still doesn’t mean you can use the gun properly. This is what I meant – she knows nothing about her dragons and instead of trying to learn something about them, she chains them in some pit and seems to forget about them.

    Martin wasn’t stalling. The point of the story for him is not to get to the end. What both you and I found in Dany’s story is the point of the story for him.

    I disagree. The whole series has a plot (tons of them, actually), a pretty well developed history and several mysteries people would like to see resolved. Dany’s plot was, at least initially, to get to Westeros. Then it got updated to “learn to rule in Meereen”, with an intention to use the knowledge to rule Westeros. Then she failed miserably and ran away. So, there is a plot, but Martin prefers to describe her thinking about Daario instead of advancing it. His choice is to write about it, my choice is to criticize it.

    I want to say it again – “it was always about the characters and not the plot” is not an excuse for writers who choose to create big epics and fail to conclude them in any satisfying manner.

  190. OtherAndrew
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming, there are a couple lines somewhat similar to stuff said at some point in the books, but it is basically a new scene (we never see Daario and Mero alone together). I thought at first that the Edmure audition video was very close to the books, then I went back and checked and it was almost entirely new as well.

  191. Alan
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky: If you know how to pull the trigger (which is essentially all Dany knows about her dragons), it still doesn’t mean you can use the gun properly. This is what I meant – she knows nothing about her dragons and instead of trying to learn something about them, she chains them in some pit and seems to forget about them.

    They were killing innocent people and she couldn’t control them. It’s not necessarily the best choice of Dany’s career, but it’s understandable. That’s a valid critique of Dany; not of the story — unless all you want out of the story is Dany learning to ride her dragons and take over the seven kingdoms and vanquish the others and love Jon. And then you’re reading the wrong book.

    I disagree. The whole series has a plot (tons of them, actually), a pretty well developed history and several mysteries people would like to see resolved. Dany’s plot was, at least initially, to get to Westeros. Then it got updated to “learn to rule in Meereen”, with an intention to use the knowledge to rule Westeros. Then she failed miserably and ran away. So, there is a plot, but Martin prefers to describe her thinking about Daario instead of advancing it. His choice is to write about it, my choice is to criticize it.

    I want to say it again – “it was always about the characters and not the plot” is not an excuse for writers who choose to create big epics and fail to conclude them in any satisfying manner.

    Of course, there’s a plot. No one here, and certainly not Martin, says there’s not a plot. It’s simply not more important inherently than the character development of the what Martin is trying to say (i.e. Theme).

    Furthermore, your complaint seems to be less about lack of plot than lack of actiony plot or plot you expected to happen, dammit. If Dany NEVER goes to Westeros, that’s not a lack of plot. Mooning over Daario, as annoying as it is, it still action that the character is doing.

    Just because the character isn’t doing what you want doesn’t mean it’s not character development. Just because you don’t enjoy it, doesn’t mean the author isn’t saying something.

    Frankly, I love A Storm of Swords because it combines the “awesome fight scene” fantasy (i.e. the stuff where people geek out about two supernaturally awesome warriors doing battle – basically, the entire Book of the Fallen) with realistic characters and thematics in a world where everything didn’t go right.

    But I realize some people only really liked it because of the first and last points — it reminds of the popularity of things like Erikson, Bakker, etc. For Martin, and I suppose me — it’s that middle part that’s truly interesting, and so I really like Dance.

    You don’t, presumably, and therefore didn’t. No judgment — really. I agree that the book could have used climaxes on the two points you mention. But it was so good anyway for me.

  192. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    To each his own, I guess. You also raise valid points, so let’s agree to disagree about them.

  193. Knurk
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    Alan: It had something to say.Just because you didn’t enjoy it or weren’t interested doesn’t mean it had nothing to say.

    Both Dany and Jon’s stories were hugely interesting to me and very relatable to real life.Dany is a superpower with nuclear weapons trying to occupy a hostile location.The choices she needs to make are very similar to the choices and situations that a country like the United States was and is making in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan.Conquering is often the easiest part, and trying to balance what you feel are imperative right and wrongs with not alienating the entire population is a balance every occupier must face.

    I personally found it fascinating.You obviously didn’t.It doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.You could argue since a lot of people didn’t like it, it wasn’t as effective as say, aSoS, at least as entertainment.But it was there.That’s what I got, what many others got, and what Martin has said was there.It’s not a traditional fantasy — and Dance is not so in different ways.

    Jon faces a similar situation in that his failures of leadership involve failure to inspire and motivate, failure to get “buy in” in modern speak, failure to find effective compromises.He makes great tactical and strategic decisions for the war with the others, but gets hamstrung by his subordinates.For me, living in the corporate world, this was eminently relatable and fascinating to me.YMMV.

    I can enjoy the stories that Martin wrote early on — the political backstabbing and the hero stories, all made more interesting by fast paced writing and a plot that didn’t always go the way you wanted.

    But I can also enjoy something like Dance, which takes a more nuanced look at power.I understand people may not like the slower pace, and let’s be honest, a lot of this kind of look at power dynamics can bore people who don’t relate.I get it.I’m not saying you’re dumber or I’m better for enjoying it.

    But don’t say it’s not there.Because it is.

    that’s where I got my 98% from. Yes it did had some things to say (probably a bit more than 2% to be fair), some things which I didn’t like of course, but it had more pages saying absolutely nothing (the travelogue, endless random bullshitcharacters in Meereen, NW-cellar stocks). The points GRRM wanted to tell could have been said and edited in a tighter story. Yes George, we know ruling is tough. Yes, ruling can be a son of bitch. Yes George, with ruling comes responsibility. Oh fuck, the end.

  194. Turncloak
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    So Charlize Theron loves Game of Thrones an wouldn’t mind being part of the cast. What do you guys think of this: Theron is cast as the Queen Of thorns. In Snow White they did a great job of aging Charlize Theron to the point where she looked like a grandma so they might be able to pull it off!

  195. DH87
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu: I don’t get it . Brett Ratner was an executive producer on Prison Break which was a great show imo .

    Google his more recent activities, on and off set, and mayhap you’ll see why his name fills us not with unbridled anticipation.

    Episode directors have much less input than film directors: they follow a more detailed shooting script and are under greater restrictions to maintain less variation in style from one ep to the next. That’s not to say JC’s very good comments aren’t accurate: shot selection, etc. is v. much the ep director’s domain—the character development, less so, though perhaps that’s obvious.

  196. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    Ross: Plus he’d have to crowbar in some illogical ‘twist’ along the way.Hmm, actually maybe he is suited. ;-)

    Plus he can do really cheap special effects. The guy had a wind as a monster in The Happening :)
    Watching the new Nostalgia Critic episode reminded me of this unintentional piece of comedy …

  197. Kneeling Knight
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    Solar,

    WTF did your head get chopped in half by ser Mandon Moore too? Part of the reason why I’m excited to see Thor 2 is cause of Taylor

  198. WildSeed
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Charlize would make a nice princess of Dorne. I thought Lady Dustin or Merryweather
    but those characters won’t make the list.

  199. vanderhook
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed:
    Turncloak,

    Charlize would make a nice princess of Dorne. I thought Lady Dustin or Merryweather
    but those characters won’t make the list.

    Would be cool to see Theron in the cast.

    QoT is not going to happen, as it’d require quite a bit of CGI and thats just too costly when they could just cast an older actress instead.

    Arianne might be cool, but she’s supposed to be more exotic with olive skin and brown hair. Maybe she could dye her hair and get a nice tan or something. They could just pull the whole “three types of Dornish” card, but I’d think for one of the major Dornish character they’d want to showcase the exotic look to emphasize that Dorne is very different than the rest of Westeros.

    I know some of the Sand Snakes are blonde with fair skin (Tyene, I believe?) but if they are going to get a big name like Theron, they aren’t going to have her be a relatively minor character like one of the Sand Snakes.

    She’d actually make a perfect Val, but again, Val is a relatively minor character.

  200. Lex
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    tysnow:
    NEWSFLASH!….

    D&D used W’s (as in Prez) decapitated head during the first season.

    behold and dispair or celebrate whichever floats your Bertha

    Well, it’s not news. It was mentioned on the DVD commentary, which came out 3 months ago.

    But HBO just posted THIS official statement on their facebook page:

    “We were deeply dismayed to see this and find it unacceptable, disrespectful and in very bad taste. We made this clear to the executive producers of the series who apologized immediately for this inadvertent careless mistake. We are sorry this happened and will have it removed from any future DVD production.”

    To be honest, I feel like this statement from HBO is a HUGE overreaction… “Removed from any future DVD production”… Seriously!?!? They’re going to photoshop it out of future DVDs?!? LOL.

    Also, judging by the comments on facebook, no one is offended. Nearly every comment is telling HBO to relax and lighten up. I think this one comment says it best: “It’s not even noticeable. You made a story out of a non-story. Fire your PR guys before you reprimand your producers. Embarrassingly amateur.”

  201. WildSeed
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    vanderhook,

    I agree. I thought of the Sand Snakes too but the storyline and lesser characters
    will prove too much for the GoT script. It’s a different POV for the books however
    as these ladies will prove their worth in Book 6. As for complexion comparison,
    a spray tan and the same wig coifffure company that does GoT Cersei and Danerys
    would be quite easy. Ms Theron has the professional bravado to morf into any
    character she portrays. A minor point though, the Red Viper’s youngest is fair
    and blonde, her mother a septra or nun. That prince of Dorne, what a guy ! I hold
    diminished expectation of GoT RV character after what they served up as ser Dontos.
    Or should I say Captain America at age 55, beer gut and all. After Littlefinger the
    teleport hijinked Dontos’s lines Sansa’s last scene ( I’m a bit disappointed), the
    knight turned fool may not have much emphasis in later seasons ( as if I’d know).
    What do you think of Naveen Andrews for Daario’s character ?

  202. Lex
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    Lex: We are sorry this happened and will have it removed from any future DVD production.”

    All I can say is, the cost for digitally removing the head from future DVD releases had better NOT be taken out of GOT’s budget… or I’m gonna be pissed.

  203. JWestfall
    Posted June 13, 2012 at 11:05 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    I just noticed that “breaking story” on MSNBC too. HBO is probably overreacting in preparation of the inevitable FOX news overreaction.

  204. DH87
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 12:13 am | Permalink

    D&D may have brought this on themselves, since apparently they themselves pointed it out on the DVD set commentary. That is what HBO is really apologizing for, I suspect. If the comment is true, the guys’ have taken Strike #1 (making HBO apologize for anything, a la Luck). I think Nick Denton’s blogs Gawker and Jezebel, followed by Deadline Hollywood, are just picking it up now.

    Pointing it out, even in a joking manner, isn’t going to win the guys any love during the awards voting (lots of academy voters may be liberal but they are over – 45 and that kind of humor may not go over well).

  205. sjwenings
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 12:36 am | Permalink

    DH87: That is what HBO is really apologizing for, I suspect. If the comment is true, the guys’ have taken Strike #1 (making HBO apologize for anything, a la Luck). I think Nick Denton’s blogs Gawker and Jezebel, followed by Deadline Hollywood, are just picking it up now.

    It’s aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall over the web now. F*ck!

    It really was an amazingly stupid idea. And I can’t believe that noone in the production had the sense to try and explain to them how risky this was or that they did not have the time between filming and commenting on the DVD-track to consider NOT pointing it out to the world.

    I’m not offended, but I know how much people like to be offended, so…

  206. Lex
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 12:45 am | Permalink

    I think that D&D, like myself, probably just thought it was a funny piece of trivia, exactly the type of thing you might mention on a commentary track. A “hey, did you know…”

    The thought that there was any political bias or motivation behind it is just ridiculous. I’m sure that never even occured to D&D, which is why they felt free to mention it at all.

  207. DH87
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 12:53 am | Permalink

    sjwenings: It really was an amazingly stupid idea.

    Agreed. If no one on the production team but D&D was aware of it, their common sense failed them not once but twice by (l) not remedying it (2) drawing attention to it, somewhat disingenuously, by saying “we had to use whatever head we had lying around.”

    And whoever vetted the DVD additional material for HBO is probably out of work as of today.

  208. sjwenings
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 12:55 am | Permalink

    Lex: The thought that there was any political bias or motivation behind it is just ridiculous.

    Not at all, I’d say. And apparently they even used it for the other decapitationscenes as well – though you can’t notice – they were stupid enough to point that out as well.

    Maybe it wasn’t about politics, but that doesn’t change their recklesness or the reactions of offencehappy conservatives AND liberals alike. The commentsections for countless articles are lighting up with people taking offence – and fans of the show trying to put out the flames.

  209. DH87
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 12:59 am | Permalink

    Lex: I think that D&D, like myself, probably just thought it was a funny piece of trivia,

    Anyone who finds humor in depicting the head of a living president on a stake may be a bit out of touch with the tenor of the times post-9/11 (and even post-1963). It might be excusable in someone from elsewhere (and I yield to no one in my dislike of Mr. Bush’s presidency).

    (And it did occur to them: their quote was “It’s not a choice, it’s not a political statement.”)

  210. Lex
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:09 am | Permalink

    DH87,

    Call me out of touch, but I do think it’s funny. It’s a celebrity mask/prop head, it wasn’t even supposed to be visible, it’s a piece of trivia. No big deal.

    What IS hilarious is anyone getting offended by this. The people calling for a boycott are especially laughable. IMO, it’s like freaking out or protesting over a political cartoon… except that it wasn’t even intended to be political!

  211. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:13 am | Permalink

    Why is this such a news story today? The DVD came out 4 months ago! You never actually see the face. If they didn’t mention it in the commentary nobody would have ever known. It was stupid of them to mention anything, but the overreaction is typical. How long before someone calls for the show to be cancelled? Total silliness.

  212. DH87
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:16 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap: How long before someone calls for the show to be cancelled?

    That’s happening now.
    This is an election year; Mr. Obama has had several highly publicized fundraisers in the Hollywood community in the last three weeks (0ne hosted by George Clooney). Very unfortunate timing. I do wonder whether folks would have brushed it off so cavalierly if it had been a head of Mr. Obama.

    I very much doubt D&D are laughing right now and I’d bet any amount of money Mr. Lombardo is not.

  213. LordDavos12
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:19 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    I agree with you. I didn’t know about the HBO response until whoever posted it posted it…but wow, they are seriously thinking way too much into things. I don’t see the big deal whatsoever; it’s fiction, it’s a prop, people need to lighten up.

  214. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:19 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    Me too. This is a complete overreaction. I can’t wait for the people to threaten to cancel HBO, just like they do when they call for ‘Real Time: with Bill Maher’ to be cancelled.

  215. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    DH87,

    Please. This is the same channel that has a weekly show hosted by Bill Maher. Nobody will remember this a week from now. Relax.

  216. LordDavos12
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:22 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Lex,

    Me too. This is a complete overreaction. I can’t wait for the people to threaten to cancel HBO, just like they do when they call for ‘Real Time: with Bill Maher’ to be cancelled.

    While they’re at it, better cancel SNL for lampooning politicians EVERY FRIGGIN WEEK! :)

  217. Lex
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:23 am | Permalink

    DH87,

    LOL. Cancellation? I guarantee the only effect is that ratings go up next year.

  218. DH87
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:26 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap: Nobody will remember this a week from now. Relax.

    No one thought that HBO would cancel Luck because of the death of three horses either—horses die on the racetrack every day, don’t they? Thousands are slaughtered and eaten every day, aren’t they? That didn’t prevent HBO from pulling the plug on a low-rated, highly praised show that was a lightning rod for controversy, even after renewing the show the previous week.

    I’m not saying that will happen to GoT. I’m just saying D&D have had their Strike 1.

  219. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:26 am | Permalink

    DH87,

    First the forced nudity and now this! HBO, fire D&D now!

  220. Dan
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:28 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    You aren’t the one who is out of touch. I never cease to be amazed at what some people will get offended about. Oh well, people who are easily offended will think this is a big deal, people who are not will shrug and move on, and people with bigger problems to worry about won’t even be aware of this stupid story.

  221. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:31 am | Permalink

    DH87,

    LOL. Nice comparisons. Horses dying because they weren’t fit to race and a GWB mask that wasn’t even visible. If this counts as a strike on D&D then I wonder what strike Bill Maher is on? 253?

  222. Bonnie Blue
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:32 am | Permalink

    MoonCoffee,

    I don’t care for this actor as Daario… I picture more of Oded Fehr (sp???) What do you think? I am new on this site, I have been trying to find a good chat with people about Game of Thrones. Is this a good one???

  223. vecki vangungenstein
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:33 am | Permalink

    Longtime lurker, first (or is it second? I forget) time poster.

    So I read the story about the head, and my first thought was ‘huh, they used a prop GWB head as one of the heads facing the other way, with a long wig and dirt smeared over its face. Kinda interesting trivia’. Read some comments on the dailymail.co.uk story, and my own head nearly imploded at the fury being shown.

    Next thought: ‘What would GWB say about this himself? Would he care? Would he be offended or amused? Lets ask him before we get all offended on his behalf.’

    Next thought: ‘What will Colbert and Jon Stewart say? Will have to keep an eye out on their websites for the next few days.’

    Next thought: ‘Really? Editing it out? Is that really necessary?’

    Next thought: ‘If there hadn’t been this outcry, imagine the fun they could have had putting various politicians of all stripes, and from a variety of countries up on spikes. This could have been great trivia! Spot the political head! Tony Blair for Season 3! John Howard for Season 4!’

    Yes I am pregnant and I blame all my crazy thoughts on pregnancy hormones. So sue me.

  224. Lex
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:36 am | Permalink

    vecki vangungenstein:
    Next thought: ‘What will Colbert and Jon Stewart say?

    I had the same thought. :D

  225. DH87
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:37 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap: If this counts as a strike on D&D then I wonder what strike Bill Maher is on? 253?

    I guess I don’t understand the repeated references to Bill Maher’s show. Maher was hired to be politically controversial and provocative; D&D were not. They were hired to run a fantasy show. Their immediate apology leads me to think they understand that, even if all of the show’s fans don’t.

  226. Bonnie Blue
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:40 am | Permalink

    Hey are you currently posting things right now? I wanted to ask someone who is regularly on this site a question….

  227. LordDavos12
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:46 am | Permalink

    Bonnie Blue,

    I think a handful of people are online right now, if that’s what you’re asking. What’s the question?

  228. darquemode
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:47 am | Permalink

    Bonnie Blue,

    Oded Fehr is one of the suggestions of a lot of fans… I think he and Naveen Andrews are probably the two most discussed actors for a role.

    It is a good site for chatting about Game of Thrones Bonnie!

    Like any site dealing with passionate fans, it can get a little heated at times, but the majority of the time it is a very relaxed and friendly place!

  229. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    DH87,

    The same people who are bitching about this are the same one’s who threaten to cancel their HBO subscription after Bill Maher says something controversial. This is the biggest joke of an overreaction that I have ever seen. The political correctness of this country is becoming embarrassing.

  230. Dan
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:51 am | Permalink

    DH87,

    Their immediate apology leads me to think they understand that, even if all of the show’s fans don’t.

    Well, if all the fans don’t see what the big deal is then there shouldn’t be a problem. The fans, after all, determine the success of the show. But if it makes you feel better making a mountain out of a mole hill then have at it.

  231. Bonnie Blue
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:56 am | Permalink

    LordDavos12,

    I have been trying to find a good site to chat with Game of Thrones fans, and I was just wondering if this is a good one. I used to go on EW but the chats pretty much ended with the season. I turned into a big huge dork about this show (and the books) last year and I can’t wait for next year to talk about it with others! Just wondering if it’s a good one. By your fast response, I would take that as a yes…?

  232. Bonnie Blue
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:59 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Thanks! I will have to check it out then. Yes, it’s funny how people get so personal with a tv show/book. It’s fun to discuss stuff even if you disagree (as long as people don’t get too angry LOL)

  233. darquemode
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:00 am | Permalink

    DH87,

    I think this was completely apolitcal and had no malice behind it….

    That said, I think that it it is at best insesnistive and at worst a potential lightning rod. I personally found it funny, but I am VERY hard to offend. The fact of the matter is anything dealing with a President of the United States during a politcal season is bound to be over-analyzed and overreacted to by some.

    I think D&D meant nothing by it honestly, but I think they could have handled it better if they had gone into more of an indepth explanation on the DVD instead of causally mentioning it like they did.

    Their recent statement on Head-gate would probably have been enough for most people if they had stated it in the DVD commentary, but honestly it would have been best left out.

    Here is their latest response:
    “We use a lot of prosthetic body parts on the show: heads, arms, etc. We can’t afford to have these all made from scratch, especially in scenes where we need a lot of them, so we rent them in bulk. After the scene was already shot, someone pointed out that one of the heads looked like George W. Bush. In the DVD commentary, we mentioned this, though we should not have. We meant no disrespect to the former President and apologize if anything we said or did suggested otherwise.”

  234. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:03 am | Permalink

    The fact that they even had to apologize is an absolute joke.

  235. Bonnie Blue
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:05 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    I agree… they were just responding to someone asking about it, and they made a response. I (like most people) probably didn’t notice the resemblance to GW, but when I saw the still, I thought it was kind of funny. It’s not like it’s an exact copy of his head…. I don’t know why people are overreacting about this, I guess maybe the news is slow today. Maybel if we stop talking about it, it will go away faster! :)

  236. Bonnie Blue
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:08 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I agree, but I think they felt like they had to make a statement of some kind because someone asked them about it. I guess they could have just said they didn’t notice anything and it probably would have gone away. But they chose to make that statement. It’s really not a big deal. Not sure why everyone is still talking about it….

  237. darquemode
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:09 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I am a strong opponent of the extreme politcal correctness too honestly, but I do understand this is a somewhat serious issue. If it was anyne other than a US President think it would be completely laughable (although I laughed honestly).

    I think if it had been handled properly at frist and left off of the DVD, it would obviously have been a non-issue. If they had apologized and made their recent statement on the DVD I think it would been a mild hiccup at most too.

    The problem is that they lost control of it as a news item by not taking it seriously enough. If they would have got out in front of it and not let someone else re-release it as a breaking news item they could have made it the non-issue it deserves to be.

    Oh well, I hope it passes over the weekend, but I wager it will last at least for the 24-hour news cycle if not until the weekend cycle.

  238. DH87
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:14 am | Permalink

    Dan: But if it makes you feel better making a mountain out of a mole hill then have at it.

    I guess I’ll try this one more time: my point isn’t that D&D should or should not have made the comment or CGIed the head—my personal opinion counts for absolutely nothing. That HBO had to apologize is the operative fact. HBO doesn’t apologize to “enemies” of Bill Maher. It doesn’t apologize for too much, or not enough, full frontal nudity in Game of Thrones. When it does apologize for something, that’s not going to be a good thing, from the showrunners’ perspective.

    darquemode, agree with your assessment of the strategy.

  239. darquemode
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:17 am | Permalink

    Bonnie Blue,

    Some threads are busier than others, and different times of day have more action of course, but this is my favorite year round Thrones site. A lot of great news, and commentary from knowledgeable fans and “quasi-experts” (and a few legitimate exerts too) that can answer almost anything. Plus some nice exclusives and insight from insiders (some cast and crew members have commented even)…. and extras on the sets etc.

    Once the filming and casting news (and rumors) start flying the chat here will really heat up!

  240. negar
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:18 am | Permalink

    new post please ? no news on season 3 ? nothing ?!

  241. Bonnie Blue
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:19 am | Permalink

    Personally, I’m WAY more interested in casting news… I can’t wait to see who they are going to cast as some of the characters for the 3rd seasons. Sorry if this has been discussed to death, but I was wondering what you guys think about the Reeds – I personally was shocked that they were going to include them in the show next season. I thought that they could have easily left them out of the show (especially with all of the great characters they have to introduce next season). What do you guys think? I posted a comment on EW that I thought they could have easily left them out of the show, since they can’t have everyone, and that they were kind of insignificant to the story, and I was surpised how everyone disagreed with me… What do you guys think about that? I see they just cast the role of Shireen. I could have done without the Reeds… I want Ramsay!

  242. Bonnie Blue
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:22 am | Permalink

    Thanks so much darquemode, for the response!

  243. LordDavos12
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:24 am | Permalink

    Bonnie Blue,

    Sorry for my late reply, but it seems our other faithful have answered your question! Yes, this is a great place to discuss the show and the books…and like others have already said, sometimes the discussions tend to get a bit heated. I usually browsed the EW threads but it seems like most of the idiots on there just like to post spoilers to get non-readers fired up. Hope you stay around awhile; WiC is a fantastic site and arguably the top site for what you’re looking for. Westeros is also a good one, but there are some major fanatics there, and I’ve found WiC is more easy going.

  244. darquemode
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:29 am | Permalink

    Bonnie Blue,

    I want Ramsay too… far more than the Reeds.
    Many thought the Reeds could possibly be left out (myself included) and many thought they were very important. I just never got into Bran’s storyline personally… I skip over it in re-reads since I find it boring and at times even annoying.

    There have been some good discussions here on casting if you look back a few pages… Or you can click on the “POSTS” menu above and then on “CASTING” and find a number of fun threads. Of course most are a couple weeks old or more and do not have a lot of action. They still are fun to read during down time… they were for me at least! XD

    I have an ongoing casting thread at a different site here: http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/05/game-of-thrones-season-3-casting-roles.html

    Though it has been fairly quiet for a week or so now since no new casting news has come in the last week or more. It will pick up again when more news comes out, but honestly Winter-is-Coming has a much more active community.

  245. LordDavos12
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:30 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Careful sir, Arthur is going to jump you.

  246. Dan
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:30 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    If it was anyne other than a US President think it would be completely laughable (although I laughed honestly).

    Why does it change anything being a president? I don’t understand the hero worshipping over presidents, not saying you do this. I think it is laughable that anyone would take offense to a plastic head being on a spike on a tv show no matter what person the head resembles. At least I got a laugh out of it when I heard about it on the DVD and again when I saw the discussion about here. I feel sorry for people who get offended by things like this. I’m glad that most people agree that this is a non-story. I’d hate to live in a society where I was in the minority over this.

  247. DH87
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:32 am | Permalink

    “HBO Apologizes” is now trending as the #1 most controversial post on DeadlineHollywood for the last two weeks, after being up only a few hours.

  248. Bonnie Blue
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:33 am | Permalink

    LordDavos12,

    Thanks! I couldn’t believe the spoilers people posted on the EW site too… That just ruins the fun for people who don’t know what’s coming. I just love talking to people about Game of Thrones, and the people I see day to day think I’m crazy! I guess I’m into it more than they are. It’s nice to find somewhere to discuss this great show! Thanks, I will definitely be back on here…

  249. darquemode
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:35 am | Permalink

    LordDavos12,

    Ha!
    I had him specifically in mind and made sure to say some thought they were very important!

  250. Dan
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:40 am | Permalink

    DH87,

    Yeah, I guess I just doubt that they really care. They may have apologized to appease the people who have too much time on their hands and get offended over nothing, but I doubt anyone at HBO or D&D is losing any sleep over this. I’m sure the media will find some other non-issue to fret about soon enough.

  251. darquemode
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:42 am | Permalink

    Dan,

    Call me old fashioned, but I think it is a respect thing and the institution of the Presidency deserves respect regardless of the man (or hopefully one day woman) in office or out of office. I don’t mean to say they cannot be criticized or joked about in any way. Just respected.

    For many people a head on a spike might cross that line. XD

  252. Bonnie Blue
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:44 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Hey, thanks for that casting news thread, I really liked it… I don’t know why but I get so excited about the casting rumors! I added it to my favorites. I think so far they have done a great job on the casting for the show. I know they haven’t said anything about Ramsay being in the next season… do you think they are trying to keep it under wraps as a surprise? Or do you think they are keeping him for season four? I dont know how they could do that. The winterfell storyline would have to be put on hold, and I don’t see how they could do that after the season finale… thoughts? You guys probably know more than I do!

  253. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:48 am | Permalink

    A woman truly finds it amazing that some people are offended by the fact that the one faux-head happens to slightly resemble one of our former presidents. From the angle shown, it could have resembled 1,000 different people! Plus with the wig and mud/makeup, I truly see only the vaguest of resemblance. Truth be told, IMO it looks more like Barbara Bush’s nose from that angle, but whatever! Hope this blows over soon so we can get some casting info for Season 3!!!

  254. Dan
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:48 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Yeah, I guess a lot of people feel that way but I’m not one of them. The last group of people I would respect just because of the title they hold or held is politicians. I guess to each their own though.

  255. darquemode
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:49 am | Permalink

    Bonnie Blue,

    The are rumors of actors casting for the role of Ramsay… Maybe videos of the casting auditions too, but I did not see them.

    In addition to the official list of some of the roles being cast I know there are rumors for Ramsay, Vargo Hoat being cast and possibly Mero AKA Titan’s Bastard since his role was in some of the Daario audition videos..

  256. LordDavos12
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 3:05 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    I’m almost hoping at this point that they don’t announce who’s going to be Ramsay and just surprise us….even though I know that’ll never happen :/

  257. darquemode
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 3:10 am | Permalink

    LordDavos12,

    I agree.
    As much as I love speculation (“almost” to the point of obsession) and get a rush out of finding out casting news before the masses (and well before the season airs)…. I do like the idea of being surprised when an actor appears on screen in a given role!

  258. Bonnie Blue
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 3:23 am | Permalink

    I felt the same way when I was trying to decide whether to read all of the books before I saw the show… I love the surprise, but I just couldn’t stand not knowing what was going to happen! It’s nice to be surprised, but I just can’t stand it! So I like to hear the rumors about the casting!

  259. LordDavos12
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 3:41 am | Permalink

    Bonnie Blue,

    Don’t get me wrong, I love all the casting news…but for Ramsay, I think it should be a surprise :)

  260. WildSeed
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 3:58 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Was Alexander Skarsgaard’s younger brother included in the casting call for Ramsay?
    How about UK chef Ramsay? That guys scares me. I’m personally pinning for
    Naveen Andrews as Daario. I was gonna say president Obama, but I guess that s
    nothing to joke about. Bill Maher would do for Dontos though if Captain America bows
    out (like the guy who portrayed Gregor).

  261. LordDavos12
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 4:06 am | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Naveen Andrews would actually give me a reason to like Daario…otherwise, I don’t care. Daario is such a douchey character, and my Lost fanboyism for Naveen would be the only reason I wouldn’t fast forward when Daario was on screen.

  262. WildSeed
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 4:24 am | Permalink

    LordDavos12,

    Totally agree, my skin kinda crawled a bit when Dany chose him. She’s just a little
    girl who knows nothing about war’ but she surmised his ego right away ( not to
    mention he switched sides ). I wonder where he’ll show up in book 6. Man I
    do not want to wait 5 years to find out. Maybe GRRM is halfway through..not

  263. LordDavos12
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 4:26 am | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    We probably have ten years, not five!

  264. darquemode
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 4:49 am | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Ha! Gordon Ramsey and Obama… XD

    I know Skarsgard has a lot of siblings, but I have never seen any of their work honestly… or heard any mention of them in casting. All we have now though are rumor and speculation or even speculation on rumors…

    I like Naveen Andrews too much to be Daario! XD
    I don’t hate the role as much as some people, but I don’t like Daario and I’m not sure having an actor I like would help me like Daario any more honestly. One actor I have thought about and liked in an old guilty pleasure show I watched called Kyle XY is Hal Ozsan. He has a similar build and look to how I pictured Daario (but no beard of course).

    I would like Naveen Andrews or Oded Fehr as the Red Viper next year so I hope neither are cast as Daario this year I guess.

  265. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 6:57 am | Permalink

    The world must a very boring place if this half joke from a DVD commentary gets into news. I mean, everything is quiet everywhere …

  266. DH87
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    darquemode: I know Skarsgard has a lot of siblings, but I have never seen any of their work honestly

    As WiC’s resident expert on all things Skarsgard (apparently) I can report that Gustav Skarsgard is considered the best actor of the family but he speaks very little English (accented or otherwise); Bill, the third brother, is very young and dark haired, but I’m not sure his English could pass muster either. The fourth brother is a doctor; the fifth is not yet two years old.

  267. Moff
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    wow, bill skarsgard looks exactly how I pictured ramsay, I think he’d be a great choice by the looks

  268. Josh Parker
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    I think there would be a strong negative reaction if the head had been Obama’s. The producers would be called racist and HBO would pull the plug. No question.

  269. Albert
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Bill Skarsgård is actually not a bad suggestion.
    I’ve only seen him in Swedish productions, so I have no idea what his English is like though.

  270. Michael Tschuertz
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    well it is news, because

    the 24 hours news crazy needs something anything.
    There is a culture war in the US between left & right(at least that is what i hear)
    it is 5 months before the election
    for people over 45(the ones who have money & power) something like that is bad,
    cause they still remember 1963 or have heared of it…

    It is not a good thing for the show or HBO that is for sure because it could have been so easy be avoided…

  271. sjwenings
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/06/14/hbos-game-thrones-parades-president-george-w-bushs-decapitated-head-on-stick/

    The story is on Foxs’ website. I just hope this doesn’t reach their TV-news….

  272. darquemode
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    DH87,

    Thanks for the info!
    Bill does look like he could fit the role of Ramsay physically at least.

    I really need to check out more Scandinavian movies and TV series!
    What I have seen I have liked….

    I saw The Killing (Forbrydelsen) a year or so ago and loved it. Someone suggested a few Danish series to me and I have been watching The Bridge (Broen/ Bron) the last weeks and like it quite a ibt… Next on my list is Those Who Kill (Den Som Draeber) with Lars Mikkelsen (Mads’ older brother). I guess a few years ago I saw some of Wallander too, but preferred the UK version with Branagh.

    I’m always on the look out for good movies or series from other countries so if you have any… feel free to suggest!

  273. Lex
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    sjwenings:
    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/06/14/hbos-game-thrones-parades-president-george-w-bushs-decapitated-head-on-stick/

    The story is on Foxs’ website. I just hope this doesn’t reach their TV-news….

    Who cares, Fox news is a joke.

    Also, gotta love how they spin the truth. Now apparently HBO “paraded” the head on a spike. LOL, humanity is doomed.

  274. KG
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Hear, hear. It’s disrespectful and Not Done here in the US.

    For example, I personally think Kennedy was an inept, whoremongering pig, but I wouldn’t put a fake JFK head on a pike. Hell, I wouldn’t do it with Chester A. Arthur, the “Who? You’re kidding, right?” trivia question President.

  275. Alan
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    Josh Parker:
    darquemode,

    I think there would be a strong negative reaction if the head had been Obama’s. The producers would be called racist and HBO would pull the plug. No question.

    No, they wouldn’t pull the plug.

    24 hours news cycle, people. And it’s not even a Bush head — it’s a head that looks like George Bush.

    I doubt Obama and Bush would care at all. They’ve both been called many worse things and in worse ways.

  276. Dark Star
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    DH87: As WiC’s resident expert on all things Skarsgard (apparently) I can report that Gustav Skarsgard is considered the best actor of the family but he speaks very little English (accented or otherwise); Bill, the third brother, is very young and dark haired, but I’m not sure his English could pass muster either. The fourth brother is a doctor; the fifth is not yet two years old.

    Self proclaimed expert of many things, apparently

  277. sjwenings
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Alan: I doubt Obama and Bush would care at all. They’ve both been called many worse things and in worse ways.

    Also, I guess – this “Bush” was beheaded by superasshole Joffrey, sitting next to the just and honorable Ned Stark. Its a tribute, really! Well… that was a stretch, but…

  278. Alan
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Lex: Who cares, Fox news is a joke.

    Also, gotta love how they spin the truth. Now apparently HBO “paraded” the head on a spike. LOL, humanity is doomed.

    It’s obvious from the article that the writer of the article has not watched the DVD commentary, since there are some awful inaccuracies in there, such as the creators using “George W. Bush as an inspiration” for the decapitated heads.

    Welcome to why no one should ever trust Fox. If you’re going to make shit up about Game of Thrones…

  279. Mimsy
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Bonnie Blue: I was wondering what you guys think about the Reeds – I personally was shocked that they were going to include them in the show next season. I thought that they could have easily left them out of the show (especially with all of the great characters they have to introduce next season). What do you guys think? I posted a comment on EW that I thought they could have easily left them out of the show, since they can’t have everyone, and that they were kind of insignificant to the story, and I was surpised how everyone disagreed with me…

    I think about the Reeds in the same fashion that I think about Gendry, Hot Pie, Yoren, Bronn, Dagmar, Pod, Shae, Dolorous Ed, etc. They are necessary to create a well rounded and entertaining story for the main characters. This series has oodles of fabulous and sometimes mystical characters and the more we can see of them the better. I love the realistic feel of the series. The main characters are traveling all over the darn place and they’re meeting all kinds of different people that will hook up with them and leave them and hook back up with them.

    To me this story isn’t a traditional “this is my group of 5 characters” and they aren’t going to interact with anyone else that’s interesting. Even Ramsay needs his cronies to flesh out his character. It’s not all about him and that special someone he likes to torture.

    Bran’s journey to the North is going to be a hell of a lot more interesting with the Reeds tagging along. I guarantee it. I don’t understand why people would even think that Bran and Osha are a story. Osha is a wildling.. that is all. Not only will the Reeds help transform Bran into his destiny, but they are little powerhouses of knowledge, history and their father was Ned’s BFF! Their connection to the Starks is beyond anything Osha is at the present.

    Even Penny was a sad and interesting character. I don’t understand the dislike for her character either. I thought she was a great contrast to Tyrion’s character and at times her character boiled down to the core of what Tyrion could have been had he not been born into wealth. Dragging Penny along (granted she was so whiny at times, that even I wanted him to leave her!), but he didn’t.. and that proved what kind of man he is. After everything that Tyrion went thru and everything that he was going through, he couldn’t turn his back on Penny. He didn’t become the monster that people thought he was and that even HE wanted to be. This is the lesson that Theon FAILED to learn.

    Should Penny be cast, I won’t be disappointed.

  280. JWestfall
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    It’s almost like I have the power of prescience, or something…

    I kind of hope this story does make it onto their TV shows – I remember how their reporting on Mass Effect (which they pretty much described as “alien porn”) apparently helped sales of that game.

  281. Knurk
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Dark Star: Self proclaimed expert of many things, apparently

    don’t feel inhibited to bring your own expertise here. DH87, though a hard critic of True Blood, has shown on this website to know a lot about TB and its fansites. It’s nice to have links between our shows, no matter how one feels about them.

  282. Joshua Taylor
    Posted June 14, 2012 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    Actually I only knew who Chester A Arthur was because of Die Hard with a Vengeance.

  283. KG
    Posted June 15, 2012 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    You gotta feel for the poor guy.


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