And that’s it for season two. My summary and thoughts on the finale are after the break. Read them and then leave your reactions in the comments. Valar Morghulis!
Spoiler Note: This post is for those who have read A Clash of Kings. As such the post itself and the comments will contain spoilers. If you haven’t read ACoK yet, you can discuss this episode in our non-book reader recap. Thanks!
Summary
Quick summary this week, as I really want to get to my thoughts. Starting off in King’s Landing, where Joffrey hands out awards for the successful battle. His father becomes hand, Littlefinger becomes Lord of Harrenhal and Margaery becomes his new betrothed. Littlefinger promises to save Sansa. Meanwhile, Varys has found his own little bird. Tyrion is defaced and disgraced, although he still has a few supporters in the capital. Namely, Varys, Podrick and Shae. Most of all, Shae.
In Winterfell, Theon laments his situation while Luwin gives him some advice. Theon decides to ignore it at his own and, sadly, Luwin’s peril. After the Bastard has left his mark on Winterfell, Bran and Rickon and Hodor and Osha make their way top-side to discover Luwin. The maester urges them to travel north. He bids them farewell and then asks Osha to send him off. The little company heads north while Winterfell smolders in the background.
Jaime and Brienne are on their own journey and they come upon some Stark guards. After some interrogation, they finally realize the identity of Brienne’s captive. Unfortunately for them, they’ve messed with the wrong chick. Brienne quickly dispatches of the guards while Jaime looks on in admiration.
Also setting out on a journey is Arya, who is leaving Harrenhal with Gendry and Hot Pie. Until they run into Jaqen, who tells Arya that one day she too can become a Faceless Man. He gives her a coin, teaches her the words “Valar Morghulis” and then changes his face.
Meanwhile, Robb confronts his mother over his new-found feelings for the lady from Volantis. Robb ignores his mother’s counsel and says his vows before the gods and men.
In the frozen north, Jon and Qhorin remain captive and they are headed to see Mance Rayder. Qhorin breaks free from his bindings and attacks Jon. Rattleshirt lets them fight it out and after a quick tussle in the snow, Jon runs him through. “We are the watchers on the Wall,” Qhorin whispers to Jon with his dying breath. Rattleshirt frees Snow and Ygritte escorts him to his new King.
Across the Narrow Sea, Dany enters the House of the Undying. She wanders through vision after vision, of the Throne Room covered in snow to Drogo craddling Rhaego in his arms. Eventually, she finds her dragons, in chains. Only to end up in chains herself, at the hands of Pyat Pree. With a word, she commands her dragons to breath fire and Pyat Pree is no more. Dany frees herself and heads to Xaro’s mansion, where she finds the King of Qarth in bed with Doreah. After stealing his key and opening Xaro’s vault, they discover it is empty. So they decide to fill it. Before leaving Qarth though, they manage to grab a few parting gifts. Enough to buy a small ship, at least.
Lastly, beyond the Wall once more, this time with Sam, Grenn and Dolorous Edd. As they bust each others balls, they hear a horn blast, and then another and then a third. Grenn and Edd flee, leaving Sam alone in an increasingly-building snowstorm. Emerging from the storm are wights… and then, riding a dead horse, a White Walker. The camera pulls back and reveals a whole army of wights and White Walkers, advancing on the Fist of the First Men and the Night’s Watch.
What I Liked
Three horn blasts – Wow at that ending, they really went for it! I thought we’d get the three blasts and then Sam’s reaction and maybe a far away shot of a bunch of walkers. Instead we got the Walking Dead all up in here. From the moment the third horn blast sounded and the snow started billowing and the music got louder, the whole scene took on an eery feeling, and then, the wights start shuffling in, and I thought that would be all, but no. The hooves of a horse, the camera pans up to reveal flesh and blood hanging from the horses neck and then further to the ancient-looking White Walker on his back, crystal sword in his hand. E-P-I-C!
Tyrion and Shae – That was a surprisingly touching scene. For a minute there, I thought they might have Tyrion actually head to the Free Cities! But no, he stays and Shae demonstrates her devotion by staying with him. It will be interesting to see how this relationship develops next season.
The House of the Undying – I really liked the House of the Undying. Yeah, it was changed from the book, but I knew going in there was no way they would show all the visions that they showed in the book. I was just hoping for something creepy and atmospheric. And that is what we got. First, the haunting scene in the destroyed throne room of the Red Keep. Just beautifully shot. Hats off to Alan Taylor on this and many other shots in the show. And then… Drogo! I knew Jason Momoa had been on-set to film a scene but totally forget about it when watching the episode. No lie, I started to tear up in that scene. And I don’t ever cry when watching movies or TV shows. And then Dany finds her dragons and we actually get a reason that the warlocks want the dragons and why they want Dany there with them. I don’t remember that from the books. And then the twist at the end, with Xaro and Doreah, was very well-done. Tied up all the loose ends in Qarth in a satisfactory way, that was fitting for a TV season finale. Great adaptation.
Jaqen says farewell – The face changing was creepy! Wish they could have had Jaqen actually wave his hand over his face, but I guess that would have cost too much. I’m just glad they kept it in, because there was a moment there where I thought he was just going to leave without changing his face.
What I Didn’t Like
Theon loses Winterfell - I really liked the scene between Luwin and Theon. I didn’t like the way Theon eventually lost Winterfell. Dagmer knocking him upside the head was not nearly as dramatic as Reek, who he assumed was his savior, betraying him and burning Winterfell to the ground. I really liked how they handled Theon’s storyline up to this point, but felt that the payoff here was not as good as it should have been.
Jon and Qhorin – I had been holding off on saying anything about this storyline, waiting to see where the writers were going with it, but damn if they didn’t completely mishandle this one. Now maybe my judgement is clouded by the fact that the Halfhand is my favorite minor character in the whole series, but I felt like the way this played out in the book was much more epic, more cinematic, more dramatic and, most of all, made sense to the reader. The show gives us Jon screwing up at every turn and then in the end somehow getting the best of Qhorin in a scene that I’m sure at least a few new viewers found totally confusing. Why not have Jon remain with Qhorin? Allow Qhorin to be the mentor he should be to Jon. Get the viewers invested in Qhorin as a character. And then, have the tension mount as Jon and Qhorin flee. We care about both of these characters and we don’t want either of them to die. But it looks like one will have to. “Is your sword sharp, Jon Snow?” And then, make it clear in their final showdown that Qhorin is sacrificing himself. In the show, we get Jon screwing up left and right, flirting with Ygritte for a couple episodes, and then killing Qhorin out of what seemed like nothing but self-defense. Seriously disappointed that this storyline wasn’t as epic and emotional as it could have been.
Those are my thoughts on this finale. Overall, I thought it was a great way to end this season and set-up season three. What did everyone else think? Share your thoughts and don’t forget to vote in our “rate the episode” poll!
1095 Comments
They HAD to end it like that…BASTARDS!
AziraphaleQuote Reply
WHITE WALKERS!
Hassan MadkourQuote Reply
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
Enjoyable!
I LOVED the Drogo appearance.
AshStormQuote Reply
Oh man, they blew it out of the park. If that ending didn’t get everyone pumped I don’t know what will! The others!!!!!!!
DanofhouseStarkQuote Reply
We don’t deserve this show. It is too good for us.
ScholesyQuote Reply
FUCKING AWESOME!!!
ArthurQuote Reply
Sorry guys, D&D chose Drogo over me
RhaegarQuote Reply
MY GOD WHAT A SHOW….NEXT!
Mike MillerQuote Reply
I believe this episode will divide the readers from the non-readers with how much they liked it.
I’ll be the first to get the hate I guess.
I’m a reader. Yuck.
TrollsbaneQuote Reply
That was…. amazing, especially the Zombie Horse!
David W.Quote Reply
Looks like th walking dead cast made it to the show ;). Pretty cool
RhaegarQuote Reply
The only thing I dislike, or not really dislike is HOTU. not enough of the visions. Oh well, maybe they’ll bring Quaithe with the visions next seasson Overall : BEST EPISODE SO FAR! and that’s the definition of epic.
Hassan MadkourQuote Reply
Drogo!!! What a nice surprise!! That ending was crazy. It was like the walking dead met gameof thrones!! It was a great episode!
HildaQuote Reply
Trollsbane,
I’m a reader and I loved it! Seriously you guys have to let go and enjoy the show for what it is
DanofhouseStarkQuote Reply
No arguments here!
wargsareawesomeQuote Reply
Trollsbane,
really? well i guess you cant please everyone
Lyn CorbrayQuote Reply
I’m a reader and really liked it.
Bit disappointed they got rid of Doreah too but damn if that wasn’t cold of Dany.
LordStarkingtonQuote Reply
The highlights were Dany seeing Drogo again, the fact the dragons were featured way more, and the Whitewalkers!
LOVED THE SEASON FINALE
KennethQuote Reply
I’m not being an asshole, or gonna try to debate your opinion with you, but I would legitimately like to know why.
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
i like how they updated the others and their swords, much better. the drogo cameo was a nice surprise
spacepopeQuote Reply
THAT’S OKAY I DIDN’T NEED TO SLEEP TONIGHT ANYWAY
sockslolQuote Reply
Good, not as awesome as last week, of course, but still very happy with it! I loved the scene with Shae and Tyrion.
Handmaiden of DanyQuote Reply
THREE BLASTS MEANS OTHEEEEEEERS O.O God! This was SO. AMAZING.
Valyrian EyesQuote Reply
Easily the best episode of the season. It got me on an emotional level. I cannot believe we have to wait till next year :(
TheBullQuote Reply
HOTU was dissapointing but everything else was pretty awesome. Although who knows what this means for the future, I expect some pretty big changes in the next couple of years. I think they were afraid of being bound to the prophecies.
House SnowQuote Reply
I read. I love. I am also quite sane.
ScholesyQuote Reply
I loved it!
AzazelusQuote Reply
I’m kinda disappointed that they didn’t show Rhaegar/Elia and dead Robb Stark. But I’m so fucking happy the showed more Dragons, more Dire Wolves(Shaggydog is BEAST!) That scene where Pyat dies is amazing. Much better in the books.
Loved Bran’s scenes. Loved Tyrion’s scenes. Loved the first scene in the Throne room. Love how they gave the Halfhand a good night rest.
and where Jaqen “died”…Vala Morghulis…
Three Blasts….
DanmireQuote Reply
They should have shown Xaro in bed with perhaps a young Dothraki boy…after all, he’d be more interested in Loras than Doreah.
Jonathan MeyersQuote Reply
To be fair…Doreah died in the Red Waste. She was expendable.
mikeintexasQuote Reply
My heart goes out to you Rhaegar
Valyrian EyesQuote Reply
The ending was awesome, I must admit. The first half was a bit slow. The Tyrion/Shae stuff is confusing… is this all an act, or does this tell us that Shae really did love Tyrion before she betrayed him, and lied because she was threatened, or something? I always took it that it was an act.
HOTU was very VERY disappointing. Just because the book version was so cool. I guess I’ll just be a “book purist” (even though I don’t get all these labels) but honestly… it was just meh for me.
The InstrumentalistQuote Reply
I felt underwhelmed, though that’s probably because I’ve always disliked the the magical aspects of GRRM’s work. Ice zombies? Yawn. I had way more chills last week with that brilliant ending.
They had a lot of content to rush through this week, too. Still, I commend them for some stellar scenes. The Stannis scene blew it out of the park as far as acting goes.
I just wish I had more time with Sansa, Ygritte, and a gazillion others.
Brandon StarkQuote Reply
The most effing fantastic final scene in the best ever season finale. Well done to the makers of this show, I actually felt emotions!
StephanieQuote Reply
I’m a reader and I loved it-but then I think the entire series has been far beyond what one could reasonably have expected. Though clearly not beyond what some could unreasonably have expected. :)
tdraicerQuote Reply
Remember when I said Doreah had a hand in stealing the dragons and everybody laughed in my face…well suck it.
Manish ManQuote Reply
The prophecies aren’t a big problem. GRRM doesn’t even seem to know what they mean. :D
ScholesyQuote Reply
I am sure book purists will have a thing or two to say about Hotu, but I find those changes….interesting. For a few reasons, as I am sure others do. Speaking of Others, was that the best face shot or what? We got a good close look at that guy! The detail was awesome! All in all.. Rockin! And now…..the long wait….
scott glennonQuote Reply
Trollsbane,
If we could all pitch in 250 million bucks apiece we could have the book brought to the screen, small or big but until then we ALL have to make do..
Mike MillerQuote Reply
Again, just like Blackwater…
Was that TV or a 200 million dollar Hollywood movie I just watched?
The CGI was utterly amazing. Everything was perfect. I just was holding my breath the whole time.
Dany > Warlocks… Breathe fire baby dragons! OMG, she was walking around with them on her arms as if they were falcons….. So amazing…
God, I am teary-eyed… I am such a wuss…. I LOVE this show!
Edit: Yeah I loved that the Khal made an appearance. I miss Drogo so much. I almost cried, again, when Dany and Drogo were reunited…
ArthurQuote Reply
Was anyone legitimately in tears at the Khal Drogo appearance?
I honestly went, “Just stay there Dany. Fuck the dragons, fuck the throne, stay there with your stupidly adorable husband and your stupidly adorable baby forever.”
And if she did, and never appeared again, and that was the ending to her story, I totally would accept it. Fully.
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
awesome….it’s so sad….theon and maester luwin scene, maester luwin and the boys, tyrion and shae and of course jaqen and arya. but I’m disappointed..zombies….really!!!!!
maiaQuote Reply
That was a heaping serving of AWESOME-SAUCE! I laughed, I cried, I loved every second! Now comes the long wait :(
Ms.StormbornQuote Reply
The only problem I had is that she was so hot and now she is gone.
ScholesyQuote Reply
A little irked with some of the changes, but who cares overall EPIC!!!! THE OTHERS!!!!!!!
my watch beginsQuote Reply
One Word.
DRACARYS!!!!
Ahhhh I loved it!!!! Damn you for that ending!!!!
Seraph78Quote Reply
The only disappointement really was THOTU but wasn’t expecting much from it to begin with, so it’s cool
Valyrian EyesQuote Reply
maia,
forgot to add…. dany and khal drogo scene
maiaQuote Reply
The Instrumentalist,
Agree with you on the Shae stuff, I’m a bit confused there… but seriously, I thought the HOTU was awesome. Obviously they couldn’t do all the visions but I thought this was the next best thing.
Lyn CorbrayQuote Reply
Oh, and the Theon speech and then getting decked…fantastic. More of that and less dragons and ice zombies.
Brandon StarkQuote Reply
This. Quaithe intimates that Dany has to go to Asshai at one point in Book 2, but GRRM has publicly stated that he doesn’t have time for Dany to go to Asshai anymore. The writers are going to change a lot of Dany’s story.
mikeintexasQuote Reply
Even though it was expected, Maester Luwin’s death scene was quite emotional. He was a great character and wonderfully portrayed by Donald Sumpter. And the reaction of the boys was well done also.
NightsGatorQuote Reply
Been awhile since I’ve read the book, I dwf don’t remember a Drogo flashback tho I loved seeing the Kgal again, and the Dany HOTU ending don’t think as the same -Xaro doesnt get shut in??? I liked It tho, looking forward to season 3!
PetearysQuote Reply
How they did the HOTU was totally fine. I don’t care what anyone says — there was enough to make it magical. The snowfall in the throne room was utter Narnia, and I teared up.
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
Doreah betraying Dany and getting locked in that vault tore me up more than Neds death. I was a mess. She trusted you, Doreah!
I loved when Jon stabbed Qhorin, and he said “We are the watchers on the wall.” That was really powerful. Dany walking into the Throne room was also amazing. The entire HotU was a really cool sequence. Oh wait, no, they ruined in, Viserion wasn’t white. Story Arc destroyed.
My non-reader friend exclaimed “That wasn’t in the book!” as a joke when Tywins horse shit on the floor. He was very confused when I confirmed that it did, in fact, happen.
Three Blasts was scary. I wish it would have happened at night, though. That would have been hard to show the whole “It get’s cold when the White Walkers come” thing though, so I understand why they did it in the day. Sam got sassy with Edd and I loved it.
AndrewQuote Reply
Oh.! OOOHHHHH! Maester Luwin! Tears on that one….
Alas poor Luwin, I know him Horatio…..
scott glennonQuote Reply
Great episode. I loved the Dany parts. Badass with dragons,, boooyah!!! Tyrion and Shae I also loved. I mean it’s completely different from the books, but it works. I like Shae….
That last scene was….wow….just…seriously…scary…and exhilarating…and WOW…
So Osha will be traveling with Bran. I like that. I wouldn’t be surprised if they went their separate ways at the end of season 3.
SHAPESHIFTING!
I did dislike somethings:
Robb worshiping the Seven…Umm it’s established that the Northern men, especially the Starks worship the Old Gods….It’s an important part of who they are. The Old Ones, the First Children, the Godswood, etc…I NEVER complain about changes..NEVER…But this one bothers me…
I wonder how some things will mesh Shae and Tyrion for example down the line…but we’ll see! I can’t wait for more :)
JoshQuote Reply
THIS EPISODE WAS FANTASTIC, ALL THE CHANGES TO, BUT THE HOTU WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST SHIT IN ALL GAME OF THRONES (RESPECT MY OPNION PLEASE)
MichelQuote Reply
The whole talisia and robb storyline makes me sick. besides that it was a pretty decent episode. Thought jaqen changing his face would of been alot cooler.
HedgeWizardQuote Reply
O by the way, I LOVED Dany in the Throne room, all deserted and covered with Snow. definitively foreshadowing. Reminds me of how George RR Martin described the ending of the series. It will be like an empty graveyard, with snow slowly blowing threw.
my watch beginsQuote Reply
Well, I’m already in withdrawl…how long until the next season starts?
stileQuote Reply
The last scene was the beat part of the whole episode, so exciting. However, the only thing I didn’t like about the whole season was the absence of the two Reeds brothers.
Also, the Valar Morgulis scene was cool.
franklinQuote Reply
I’ve said it before, but not for several weeks… “best episode so far.” Yes, yes, pretty much a cliche, I know. Every scene though for me pretty much hit the nail on the head. Every actor/actress was on the top of their game throughout. There wasn’t a single scene that I disliked, even the Ros + Varys one. Is Varys what it takes for Ros scenes to be enjoyable? Maybe. I think I had tears of “YES” in my eyes every five minutes. I can’t explain what those are, but perhaps others had them too. When Drogo showed up was one of those… yeah, now you know. :)
For me, the final zombiesh scene didn’t quite equal s1 finale, but still great and didn’t diminish the episode for me. When Jon and Ygritte looked down on Mance’s camp I thought perhaps the final scene would include giants and whatnot so perhaps I was looking for that.
Anyway, great finale and it’s going to be worthy of many more viewings from me!
ClobQuote Reply
Brandon Stark,
You’re in the minority in that regard… the walkers were fantastically done.
Lyn CorbrayQuote Reply
Are you kidding me, George? Sigh.
I think his way of doing the ‘east’ thing is having her meet up with Khal whoever, at the end of book 5. She went east into the Dothraki Sea, didn’t she?
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
Trollsbane,
Nope. Reader here, and I LOVED it.
Yes, lots of major deviations, but when you think about the overall arc of the show in terms of the overall arc of the books, what they’ve done IS. FUCKING. GENIUS.
Yellow DogQuote Reply
The scene with Tyrion and Shae was brutal. Very well done. Going to make season 3-4 very tough to watch.
PetetheGreekQuote Reply
It was a great episode. The only flaw with the episode or the show I”m seeing is that there’s just not enough time. It felt so condensed at times I just felt like I was being shortchanged as a book reader.
KaethQuote Reply
Loved: House of Undying, Sansa’s reaction walking away, Arya scene, Beyond the wall
Liked : Ros and Varys scene
Didnt like Robb and whatsherface tying the knot, nor did I like the Tyrion Shae scene.
OnionQuote Reply
WHITE WALKERS…..AWESOMENESS! When will Season 3 start is the main question I want to know!
Jennifer GoodniteQuote Reply
Ugh, not a fan of the episode. HOTU was fine, but Winterfell was very anti-climactic and the white walkers were super cheesy.
Also think its going to be really hard for Jon to rejoin the brotherhood later with the fight not being a staged thing.
ReaderQuote Reply
I was most DEFINITELY in tears on that scene, I mean, just how cute can they be???
Valyrian EyesQuote Reply
Oh and before anyone gets butthurt about the House of the Undying…they’ve already established that TV Dany has prophetic dreams. Book Dany never did, as far as I remember. This means that instead of getting thirty pages of prophecies dumped on us all at once, they can spread them throughout her dreams over the next season or two…Jorah’s betrayals, Rhaegar…we will still get everything, we just didn’t get it right THEN. I also expect to see Qaithe popping up a lot more in the show than she did in the books.
stileQuote Reply
my watch begins,
That’s one interperetation, my non-reader friends seem to think snow on the throne = Jon Snow on the throne.
DerpstradamusQuote Reply
WOW. My jaw dropped on that last scene and it stayed that way thru the credits. O.M.G. Whoa!
Ya know. I think this is the first episode where I felt like I was inside a book. Everything was spectacular! HOTU.. just wow! Sure there was a lot missing, but there was ENOUGH of the book to make this completely brilliant and amazing!
Doreah?! What.the.hell?!
Dragons… luv how they cuddle. They are going to be amazing.
Robb!! I cried at your wedding dude… and I’ll cry at your reception even harder!
Jon.. that look.. what line did you just cross?
Jaqen.. AAAHHHH!!!!! Come back!
Tyrion.. :’(
MUSIC… beautiful perfection.
MimsyQuote Reply
Kaeth,
I agree….wish the episode could have at least been two hours
Jennifer GoodniteQuote Reply
I think Roz is being sent to Dany by Varys. Explains why they killed of Irri. Didn’t mind the of HOTU scenes from the book because it would’ve been hard to pull off but I really wish they could have done the Jon/Halfhand scene with a bit more depth. My non-reader husband was confused. He thought Halfhand liked Jon so I had to explain the reasoning.
Deborah Ambridge FisherQuote Reply
Okay, I’m not going to comment on the episode, I friggin love it, but I just want to say one thing.
Who else had multiple orgams when Drogo appeared? I’m a man and when Drogo appears when I don’t expect it, I get multiple orgasms.
Renaud Besse-BourdierQuote Reply
A woman LOVED THIS EPISODE! Perfect season finale. Incredible, epic, all major characters addressed so we know where they stand (sort of) with mysteries left to the imagination to chew on! Don’t care some things had to be simplified, that episode was complex, heartbreaking, heart-lifting, and more than I expected in some ways.
Characters a woman wanted to see:
Jaqen, Arya, et al – check
Brienne & Slayer- check
Tyrion, et al in KL- check
Stannis & Mel – check
Bran & posse – check
Robb – check
Dany & posse WITH DRAGONS – check
Jon Snow – check
Sam & 3 blasts & WOW walkers – check
HOTU was a little abbreviated probably so they could get more CGI for other things but you got the idea of the wizardry and Dany’s own power emerging. Don’t want to say more for a few days so people can enjoy it that haven’t seen it yet!
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Valyrian Eyes,
ALL THE CUTE FOREVER.
My fucking god she better have a version of that at the end of the books/show. Fuck fuck fuck fuck.
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
ThePinkDragon,
i actually teared up in that moment, the sack of winterfell, and tyrion and shae’s scene
Hassan MadkourQuote Reply
Oh I know that. I meant more in the sense that Dany’s supporting cast is really thin. Although I guess they might fill it out quickly depending on how they approach her storyline going forward.
LordStarkingtonQuote Reply
sockslol,
We have a winner!
Yellow DogQuote Reply
Only disappointment was no Rhaegar in the HOTU. But I was happy to see her going beyond the Wall, and it was Snowing(yes I capitalized it) on the iron throne!
Tyrion PimpslapQuote Reply
I’m a reader and it rocked, gotta get over it! Brienne fucking kicked ass, even with so many good scenes, that was my favorite!…and Theon and Tryion and Dragons and White Walkers!
SkywalkerIsDeadQuote Reply
I really hated some things about this episode…
Highlight: The Dany scenes from Xaro on were great, the music made them.
Disliked:
I have a hard time believing that the TV viewers will have ANY idea whatsoever than Qhorin wanted Jon to kill him… Hell in the show version, Jon didn’t even know… What was the point of that? Qhorin says 1 line 2 episodes ago very fast and silently, and that was supposed to hint that Qhorin wanted Jon to defect and learn about th Wildling plans?
They could’ve snuck in an escape to add that conversation this episode, but I guess it ‘s more important that they foreshadow Ros will be another main fixture in season 3 as Varys’ spy. Because he doesn’t have enough of those.
Also, the White Walker on the horse looked just downright silly. Like a guy in a halloween costume silly. The original White walkers with flat noses and charred skin from the pilot were way superior to this new one.
Lastly, what was up with the way they handled the ENTIRE Theon arc this episode? The TV viewers will have no idea who burned down Winterfell. Don’t understand that at all.
Was underwhelmed with Theon/Beyond-the-Wall stories this episode immensely. Excluding the first Theon scene with Luwin.
TimQuote Reply
ThePinkDragon,
I agree with you, what they did do with the HOTU was incredible, packed real emotional punch. I don’t know how anyone could be disappointed with what they saw. Manage your expectations people we’ve got so much more from this show than we could ever have hoped for!
DanofhouseStarkQuote Reply
Don’t want to make Jaqen jealous, but a woman got teary-eyed with the Khal.
Sorry, this woman would too! Drogo = dreamy sexy beast! Just looking Jaqen!
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
I was a pretty underwhelmed. The ending just revealed something that any TV watcher already knew existed from the very first episode. I don’t understand that decision.
But the biggest disappointment to me is the Jon killing Halfhand scene. It really didn’t set it up so that it was clear he was doing it on purpose to earn the Wildlings’ trust. It seemed like he just got into a fight, and was angered by his comments about Ned and his mom, and killed him. That needed more set up/build up to be as tense and awesome as it was in the book.
Still, the show is better than I had any right to expect and I love it. But this particular episode didn’t do it for me.
top6Quote Reply
This was an excellent finale…best ep of the season imo….but DAMN THE FINAL 10 MIN KICKED ASS….
Coltaine777Quote Reply
Lyn Corbray,
in the show they’re going for genuine love. in the books I felt it was that way too. But it was too ambiguous
Hassan MadkourQuote Reply
I got teary-eyed a couple of times – with Tyrion & Shae and again with Maester Luwin. Gonna miss him.
I loved every scene – Brienne & Jamie, Sansa’s face of relief (though it didn’t last long), Jon’s battle with Halfhand, and yes I liked House of Undying and the ending too.
But my favorite was the Valar Morghulis scene… I so so so wanted Jaqen to go with Arya, and loved the face-changing. Frickin’ awesome.
There was so much to love. I have no complaints, but will be sad seeing a few less faces around next season. RIP Winterfell.
David The GreyQuote Reply
NOOO! Please!!
What about the Prince who was Promissed?! Rhaegar?? The 3 heads of the dragon?? The House of the Undying and a proper Dracarys??!!
Can’t believe they put Drogo there!!
I’m so disappointed.
. nathyQuote Reply
Great Episode, great ending, I loved it, I am a reader, and I liked the changes, makes it more exciting and unpredictable.
Carlos LunaQuote Reply
I’ve never really understood the HOTU in the book (despite reading it something like 6 times) so this version worked for me.
I thought this one was just as epic as last week, just in a different way. Is it 2013 yet?
MichelleQuote Reply
Yes. That’s what they wanted. That’s what they needed — her to stay with her dragons. My take on it was that they gave her the option to stay voluntarily — in an illusion of bliss. But, she’s too smart. They underestimated her. The fatal mistake of underestimating Dany is an ongoing theme.
Mike ChairQuote Reply
Am I the only one that found the Halfhand’s death and theHouse of the Undying a bit of a let down? Really?
A lot of brilliant moments with Jaime and Brienne, Varys and Ros, Luwin and the Stark kids, Tyrion and Shae to be sure, but I think the two weakest arcs of the season being the two primary focuses of the finale left me unmoved…. Especially compared to last week!
Just a very good episode for me. Maester Luwin and Jaqen (well Tom Wlaschiha ) will be missed!
I wish there was another episode after to be the real finale…. I will watych Blackwater again and pretend the season ends with Tywin saying we have won, and then watch the White Walker army end scene again and pretend that is my finale episode I think.
darquemodeQuote Reply
Which bothers me to no end.
ScholesyQuote Reply
Hassan Madkour,
Oh, Tyrion and Shae’s scene was crazy sad. When Pete Dink cries. WHEN PETE DINK CRIES, EVERYONE
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
WOW, just loved the whole show. loved seeing the dire wolves and dragons spitting fire. im also a book reader but im realist enough to know some things have to be changed for time sake. a little hard to put over 1000 pages into 10 hours. thank you HBO for this great series.
barbQuote Reply
A woman agrees with you, hope Arya remembers the words!
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Two questions
1. HOW AM I GOING TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOT EPISODE TO LOOK FORWARD TO??
2. Did that White Walker just look at Sam and shrug his shoulders?? How will he get out of that???? ( I’m a book reader btw)
JackQuote Reply
Loved it. I particularly loved the Shae- Tyrion scene, of all things, although I have no idea how they’re going to manage that relationship down the line. For the “season of romance,” that was the one that actually worked, and totally took me by surprise. That, Luwin’s death, and Drogo’s reapparance all got me misty-eyed, and I don’t tear up easily.
The Theon scenes were also incredibly effective, and while I still think they should have cast Reek, they got around him in the best way possible.
HOTU was good – better than I expected. Missed the prophesies but figured they’d be toast. What we got instead was beautifully atmospheric & effective, even if the dragon budget seemed to be fraying at the edges.
Jon’s story remains the worst served, but they’ll have a chance to redeem themselves next year.
The ending was like: HELLO, high fantasy! I’m guessing Sam’s not dead, but he really should be.
Great season. Not better or worse than last year, but just as good. I look forward to seeing what they can do with 2/3 of ASOS.
Maxwell JamesQuote Reply
I was sad not to see the prophesies, and equally sad not to see the house burn down (or maybe it did when my cable was being dumb). I guess they blew their special effects budget on the others and the wildfire explosion, but that was a pretty great part in the book.
Pycelle looking down at Tyrrion and not putting on his old man act was fun to watch. Poor Tyrry.
AdamQuote Reply
I AM TURNING INTO A TUMBLR GIRL THAT IS HOW EXCITED I AM ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Okay, I think I’m done.
I think.
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
That was amazing!! So many storylines. I love this show!!!
Kisling1Quote Reply
Overall loved it, though I hated how they changed jon’s sequence, which played out the way I thought after I saw them deviate with how he handled ygritte. The problem was they didn’t provide the motivation for why they accepted them. I felt like they should have at least had jon and quarin break out so they could have their powwow in the cave. The sequence felt forced… however it’s a minor problem.
White walkers were badass. I can take the whole sam’s down there to see them on screen because it looked so cool.
Shae, am a little meh with it. I think she is missing the whole impetuous girl feel she had in the book, but considering how things play out, this sort of works out anyway.
All in all though I’m still in shock I’m watching this book on screen, I really am. I read them almost 10 years ago and they’ve been a part of my life ever since, truly a great showing of the books.
reapyQuote Reply
I’m really going to miss Luwin. :(
Overall a great episode, but I have a couple of small complaints. I thought that the burning of Winterfell seemed sort of random. How are non-viewers going to understand what happened, or who did the burning? Also, the Half-hand fight was very rushed. I wish they would have just put in one line that referenced Jon “doing what needs to be done.” I feel like if I hadn’t read the books I would have been so confused about why that was happening.
Everything else was great though. I loved the show’s interpretation of the HOTU. The ruined throne room was haunting. The hoard of white walkers was spectacular. Not at ALL what I was expecting. No Barristan though!
Default KingQuote Reply
David The Grey,
Dude, I was on the verge of tears this whole episode…
Tears and at the same time excitment…
I don’t know how that is possible but it seemed like I wanted to cry of sadness then a minute later I wanted to cry of excitment.
I never experienced those feelings before… I was holding my breath and I had to remind myself to breath…
So amazing!
ArthurQuote Reply
I wonder if the viewers will be confused by the Jon thing and the Theon thing…I’m guessing we’ll see it next season. I bet we’ll see Theon tortured…so yay? hahaha
I will say the Ros scene was pointless.. Couldn’t they save money by not bringing the actress in? Honestly, the character still hasn’t moved and the character does nothing…I just dislike showing her AGAIN in an episode that is overpacked.
JoshQuote Reply
I have yet to be disappointed, and am again forced to wait another year for more, only without being able to fill some of the void with the next book (a-hem Geroge).
I LOVED the HOTU in the book, but still really liked it in the show, and can understand why they could not do it the same. I wish we had gotten to see Sam kill an Other but I can’t complain as that was way intimidating. The John/Halfhand fight was a total win even if different, and getting to see the dragons in action and the wolves were great!
Next year needs to get here soon!
Kristen WeaverQuote Reply
White Walkers kind of look trees no?
House SnowQuote Reply
A woman begs to differ, also a reader, LOVED it! Each main story was addressed, some briefly, but sets up next season quite well in a new way so there will still be surprises for the readers. Well done D&D!
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
My non-reader friend is convinced that Dany and Jon end up together. She says that every scene with Dany is followed by Jon scene. Can’t say that I have noticed but she is convinced.
Deborah Ambridge FisherQuote Reply
Re: HOTU. If I just LET GO of R+L I can really relax and enjoy the show as much as everyone else. So I am, and I will. Thank you D&D, you did a great job, and I’ll be back next year. :-D
MrsWunQuote Reply
ThePinkDragon,
I love the series, I really do. I’m ok with most changes and do believe they’re mostly needed for the television medium to work. No need to list them all as they’re all over the site when they occur.
They pumped up the House of the Undying for about a month. And that was just shameful. What happened? She saw a broken hall where winter had come and nearly touched the Iron Throne. She saw Drogo. Yes, Drogo is awesome, but why? Really? Why was that there other than to show it’s mystical and an illusion. We already knew that before she entered. Then dracarys. Cool, though I wasn’t a fan of the look of the flames, but that’s just a nitpicky thing and has no bearing on my reaction. What about EVERYTHING else she should have seen? Is that not key to her already boring character?
Theon got to make a speech and get hit on the head. Oh exciting. =/
Tyrion’s scene with Varys and Shae was good.
Sansa and Joff’s scene was good.
Winterfell Stark’s scenes were good.
The wedding and way Rob was treating Cat were not good. I felt nothing but an urge to hit him.
Brienne and Jamie, well, if you screw that up… lol It was good.
The Half-hand and Jon fight was ok, but not nearly enough was done with hushed dialogue to really nail it home that Jon was doing it by the half-hands command. It was like one statement last episode about how useful it would be to have a brother in their ranks, and that was it. And Ghost, oh Ghost, where art thou?
I knew the season would end with 3 horns, and that was awesome. I won’t lie, I’m not a fan of the total zombie look of the wights, but no biggie. Capitalize on Walking Dead’s popularity if you can. ;)
Overall, I am just not pleased with a few minor changes that make things not nearly as cool as the books. The House of the Undying should have been SO much more. All of my non-reader friends have been talking about it since it was first brought up. Perhaps they’ll see it differently as me, but it was the biggest letdown of the series for me thus far.
I dunno. I’m not a purist, but there are times that I wish they’d stop straying and keep major parts of the story intact and actually told, instead of pretending they never happened.
TrollsbaneQuote Reply
I thought I was the only one crying throughout this whole darn episode. I think it’s my love of the characters and how D&D have brought them forward on screen.
Drogo and the baby just about killed me. Holy cow!
Brienne.. wow! She’s perfection.
MimsyQuote Reply
Book reader (many-time) who loved it. Will agree that the HOTU was a lot less cool then described in the books, but I wasn’t expecting much after Blackwater drained the budget till it probably looked like Xaro’s so-called treasure room.
Almost every time I see a fellow reader complain about the series it seems they don’t understand that the HBO version is all about minimizing the character count. Think about how vast the cast is. I believe they’ve said its the largest ever televised. Now think how much bigger it could have been if they were purely faithful to the book. Showing Rhaegar would have required additional casting and probably exposition to explain who he was, so he’s replaced by a character they already have (and were probably dying to have an excuse to bring back). Littlefinger is taking Dontos’ place to an extent. The Reeds and Tullys could be delayed, so they were. Etc.
I am quite curious about how loyal and true Shae seems to be to Tyrion at this point. Either she’s the best deceiver in KL. Or something will turn her against him in S3/4. Or something very different from the book will have to go down at the end of the book 3 storyline.
Ser MosQuote Reply
Loved it !!!! The ending was amazing :))
DSQuote Reply
Deborah Ambridge Fisher,
didn’t think of that Ros theory… I like it!
And Tyrion crying… I almost can’t stand how much I love Peter Dinklage’s acting.
trfhmsQuote Reply
House Snow,
That’s exactly what I was thinking! They’re un-Ents!
Maxwell JamesQuote Reply
That was a horrible episode, you people should stop deluding yourselves.
DBQuote Reply
My non-book-reader roommate’s response: “Dragons vs zombies!!!”
Overall, from simply from a season finale standpoint, it lacked a little of the shock/wow factor, since it was just setting up what’s next in terms of point but that worked very well. It has that “I want to know what happens next” with the larger overall plot of the series. And things seem far more tied together (although, they aren’t necessarily going to end up that way), especially with what’s happening beyond the Wall and with Dany across the Narrow Sea.
I loved the Drogo cameo. Dany’s plot this season has been lacking and that really helped bring it back to what worked in the first season, a nod to the viewers who like Drogo, rather than referencing more book-ish related plots.
The only scene I didn’t particularly like was the Joffrey scene with the announcement of the marriage. The staging seemed awkward and Natalie Dormer was kind of annoying. It didn’t have the kind of impact that it should have.
StaciaQuote Reply
The Wights started lumbering up and what was said among my family:
CARL! GET IN THE F—ING HOUSE!
It made the finale.
oddlyotterQuote Reply
Mrs. H’ghar,
Didn’t really expect our hope to come true, but I still thought of you when Tom – or whoever that was – walked away. :-)
Yellow DogQuote Reply
So are we taking this as gospel now that Cersei is in fact the one who ordered Ser Mandon to kill Tyrion?
It’s never been resolved in the books, but the show came out pretty strongly in favor of it being Cersei tonight when Varys stated it very matter-of-factly. Varys could of course by lying to Tyrion, but since we haven’t heard the real answer to this question by the end of book 5, it seems like by the time anyone ever got around to revealing that Varys was lying in the show, so much time would have gone by that everyone will have forgotten the whole thing in the first place.
I feel like the only way Varys lying would make sense is if Varys himself were the one who told Ser Mandon to kill Tyrion, and this is revealed at the same time as Varys kills another member of House Lannister around the ending of Season 5. It would be a nice double-twist.
maledictaQuote Reply
Superbly done! Bravo!!!!!
ChriswithatianQuote Reply
Rhaegar,
That’s okay baby, I still want you…
Lyanna StarkQuote Reply
I totally agree with everything you said.
. nathyQuote Reply
Trollsbane,
Agreed on all counts.
I like most of the changes D&D make…. outside of the Jon and Dany story arcs. Every change was for the worse to me. And that made for a let down of a finale.
darquemodeQuote Reply
The Others on dead horses leading an army of White Walkers! Brilliant! But I wanted to see Sam slay a white walker so bad.
JamieQuote Reply
Clob,
I know exactly what you mean… Every few minutes I was holding back tears of sorrow and then a few minutes later I was holing back tears of joy/excitment!
At least i know I aint the only one that felt like this throughout the whole episode I was on the verge of tears…
ArthurQuote Reply
ThePinkDragon,
Embrace the feels, Pink Dragon. Embrace all the feels.
Also, I think you’re selling a lot of non-readers short in regards to the Halfhand scenes. I don’t know how anyone could miss his intentions; it was really obvious.
AndrewQuote Reply
Oh LAWDY, LAWDY, that was a serious cup of awesomesauce!
KGQuote Reply
meh
Mean25Quote Reply
Oh man, that was so good!!! And Khal Drogo was my favorite character from S1, that really sealed the deal for me.
Ruze789Quote Reply
I have read evey book, and the season was espectacular, I didn’t care much about the HotU, it was well done considering the series’s time limitation. I wish they could have made the Jaqen face shifting a little bit cooler though. Shae’ scene was powerful.
franklinQuote Reply
trfhms,
Why thanks. Makes sense to me but who knows where they are taking her. I think we just got a major hint that Jaquen and Florel are the same guy. J.K. Rowling told told the guy who played Snape (damn I wish I could remember his name) some secrets before all the books came out so he knew how to play his character. I wonder if GRRM has had to do somthing similar.
Deborah Ambridge FisherQuote Reply
If you want to get that fix, look at it as symbolism that not only is Winter coming to King’s Landing, but there was SNOW on the iron throne! That is how this Jon fanboy is looking at that scene.
Tyrion PimpslapQuote Reply
Dudes seriously, did anyone think that the house of the undying stuff would make it in…Ice and Fire is full of weird visions and dreams and whatnot, and every single one of them is super vague and left up to the reader to find meaning. No one had a problem with Bran’s crazy dreamscape adventure being left out of the first season. When it comes to shows that are on this scale its about the intent and how its delivered and the visions they included were very powerful and very appropriate for the show. I adore the books, I adore the show. To me they are two separate things springing from the same well. There are things that the show has done better than the books and vise versa.
That being said, I am a little disappointed that Dany didn’t get to meet a certain older gentleman with a white beard.
Also, Ice and Fire was doing zombies before zombies were cool. Suck on that Walking Dead…Bring on the wights.
Manish ManQuote Reply
SkywalkerIsDead,
OK, that’s maybe my one concern – does Brienne proving herself in front of Jaime mean that they will not fight? That would really disappoint me.
Yellow DogQuote Reply
Did anyone notice when Grand Maester Pycelle left Tyrion’s room that he walked a little straighter and much quicker? And then in the next scene in the throne room he is hunched over and his speech is rambling. A little continuation from the scene last season.
SillyMammoQuote Reply
top6,
yes, they might make it jon’s plan all along so that he seems a better leader later on, if you get my meaning
Hassan MadkourQuote Reply
Did Iron Maiden’s Eddie inspire the new white walkers? Zombe Apocolypse!!!!
OnionQuote Reply
The last two episodes rocket this show into the Stratosphere. The White Walker was incredible, been waiting since season 1 episode 1 for them to show up again! …George need that Book 6 now!!!
JCourtKnowsNothingQuote Reply
Would have liked more of the Halfhand, but nicely done. I haven’t yet read the comments but I’m sure they are screaming about the HOTU’s lack of visions. The shot of Khal Drogo had more dramatic power though.
Shock MeQuote Reply
I’m not entirely sure that I liked the ending. I’m still working on that, I suppose. Cool CGI, though!
Some really great stuff in this episode. Peter Dinklage nailed everything tonight. The almost panic in his voice as he calls for Pod after awakening to see a grinning Pycelle standing over him. His reaction to Shae. Tyrion cries! All great stuff.
Brienne and Jaime. This pairing is going to be so much fun. Looking forward to more in… ack, 10 more months.
Stannis and Mel and the fire. Non-canon and going to drive some folks nuts, but I think it worked!
Robb and whatever-her-name-is… meh. I’m still not sold on the change from Jeyne to Talisa. Ah, well. Maybe it’ll get better next season.
Love the walking around the tower and Dany disappearing. Worked better than having Dany make all right turns, I think. Nice to see Jason Momoa again. Gave us an opportunity to see more of the non-petulant, non-demanding Dany.
Dracarys. Again, going to drive some folks nuts. Elio and Linda probably had a whole herd of cows. I liked it. Got some great shots of the 3 dragons together! The look of expectation on their faces, just waiting for her to say it. Beats burning a slaver in Astapor for an introduction to the fire-breathing as more than just a new way to cook food by Ron Popeil.
I really missed hearing Qhorin ask Jon if his blade was sharp. I think they missed the mark on those scenes. Do they really want to invest that much in keeping the audience wondering if Jon is really a traitor, at the expense of having Jon come across in a more negative light? I worry that the audience being kept wondering is also going to sour them on Jon for later.
Doreah. Well, crap. So much for that hope. Dany really is going to need a Missandei next season, now that Doreah and Irri are both gone.
Nice scene with Luwin. Going to miss him. They managed to give him a more heroic ending than in the books. I like that.
They are still missing so many opportunities to make Dolorous Ed actually dolorous. So many great lines just not happening. I’ll live, but I really wish they would work on giving Ed better Ed lines to go along with all the great Sam lines.
Three blasts did not end like I expected. Hrmm… I’ll reserve judgment, I think. It rubbed me the wrong way to have Sam come face to face with the Other and not do as in the books. I don’t think I like the way it ended. It was cool and all. But I think zombie army somehow overcame good sense and they missed an opportunity to make the 3 horn blasts really stunning. I’ll get over it.
All in all, a 4 out of 5 for tonight.
We’ll need an extra large curtain call this week, for Luwin and Doreah and Ducksauce and Qhorin.
Looks like
LangkardQuote Reply
The non-bookies are confused as all fuck, though.
I hope all their questions are answered ASAP next season. Really don’t want to lose them.
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
Im a reader but i think so far the arrangements are pretty good..,HOTU was Something,i Was lookinv,forward but seeing drogo was an excellent idea. Finally the Others are in town!!
Himilce StorbirnQuote Reply
It will be interesting to see how non-readers take the episode. They up the fantasy element by quite a bit.
House SnowQuote Reply
Also, anyone love how the King in the north got married by the Seven instead of the Old Gods lolllllllll
DBQuote Reply
The Instrumentalist,
What works as a mystical hint of things to come in the written word are blatant giveaways when you show them right in front of people. Adjustments had to be made.
KGQuote Reply
Loved most of the episode – Dany’s vision of snow on the Iron Throne was both beautiful and terrifying for the future. But I really have a problem with their making Brienne a stone-cold killer – part of her book arc is how she loses her considerable innocence which she retains despite her prowess. It’s a really big deal when she makes her first kill, but THIS Brienne apparently slits people’s throats for breakfast. I love Gwendolyn Christie in the role, but … yeah, I wish Brienne paralleled Sansa more than she parallels Arya although Arya has only killed the stable boy so far.
Also, I HATE that Robb married Talisa to spite his mother (and that Catelyn STILL hasn’t told him that Karstark was going to kill Jaime and that’s why she released him.)
In contrast, the Stannis/Melisandre scene was BRILLIANT. Stephen Dillane is amazing and he and Carice are so great together.
GonfaloniereQuote Reply
R+L is a fact! You can understand that by reading Cersei’s POV in AFFC.
. nathyQuote Reply
Maybe Talisa worships the Seven. So there.
KGQuote Reply
Then go watch True Blood. Bye!
EdQuote Reply
The only thing I think that D&D left out that would have really satisfied me personally would be some awesome CGI of Ghost running in out of no-where and killing the Halfhand…
ArthurQuote Reply
Ehh…wasn’t a huge fan of this one. My main gripes:
1a. Robb and Talisa and the whole handling of the marriage. So really, Cat knows beforehand that Robb is going to break his vow?!? and she lets him get away with it? I mean, he is king, but damn, she knows how stupid it is. I don’t know how much she could have done, but her reaction wasn’t nearly strong enough, IMO. Forget giving him life lessons, she needed to smack him upside the head.
1b. Robb deciding to marry Talisa. In the books, he marries Jeyne Westerling because they have sex and he feels guilty afterward. Basically, she’s ruined for marriage since she’s no longer a virgin, and worse, she slept with a rebel, and Tywin Lannister is not forgiving. It’s not smart, but it’s impulsive, not premeditated, and book Robb is a lot younger than his TV counterpart, so I cut him more slack. Whereas in the TV show, Robb seriously thinks about it before hand, and then decides, yep, true love is more important than my kingdom, sorry Walder. A stupid mistake in the spur of the moment is one thing, but thinking it through beforehand…ugh. He almost deserves what happens to him.
2. Littlefinger telling Sansa he’d help her go home. I don’t like how obvious it is; book Petyr would never take a risk like that. He always acts through other people, so he can’t be connected to whatever happens. Honestly, this is more of the same; D&D haven’t done so well with writing his character, maybe because they don’t think the audience can handle subtlety or convoluted plots.
3. Theon and Winterfell. Anticlimatic; I would have preferred Ramsay’s betrayal, and there are serious plot holes. We don’t really see how or why Winterfell got burned, or why the soldiers laying siege to it don’t just occupy the castle when they’ve kicked out the ironborn. Without meeting Ramsay and having that play out, it doesn’t really make sense that Bran and Rickon can just walk out of a deserted castle.
What I did like:
1. Shae and Tyrion’s conversation. I hated book Shae, but I actually like the TV version. Also, am I the only one who is speculating that she might be an agent of Ilyrio? She did tell Tyrion to go to Pentos, after all. Plus, with Varys trying to flip Ros, it seems like they want to use prostitutes as their spies.
2. (Some) of the HOTU. Mostly, the parts where Dany walks around and sees visions. I’ve never been a huge fan of Emilia Clarke, but she was pretty good in this episode, and the cinematography was just gorgeous. Good job with the CGI dragons too, though I wasn’t a huge fan of the encounter with the warlocks. (It came off as forced.) Also, I thought Dany’s khalasar was killed? Why were there so many when she confronts Xaro?
3. Ygritte. Love that girl, and Rose Leslie is doing an amazing job. Plus, Rattleshirt’s armor is awesome.
katydidQuote Reply
Loved the episode, especially that not all Starks are good guys, etc. Dany and her dragons have brought magic back into the world (and the White Walkers), doesn’t sound good to me.
Ritas SmithQuote Reply
OMG! The stuff at winterfell too. That stuff with the boys and maester luwin was so sad. That made me cry! Guess Hodor wont be carrying Bran around much anymore! LOL!
HildaQuote Reply
HOTU wasn’t a let down to me, because it FINALLY returned Dany to what she should be.. a strong player.. not a whiny little beotch. At least that’s how I saw it. I did enjoy the beautiful scenes even though some major prophecies were avoided, but that would have spoiled season 3 anyway.
MimsyQuote Reply
Really pulling for the Starks I mean CMON Rob shes hot but damn… White Walkers will crush the starks then crush kings landing and just before someone finally kills king Douche Joffrey; Danaris T and the Dragons swoop in and save the day and the Targareans take the Iron Throne again. Even the Mayans went in cycles.
Dje RockQuote Reply
Hassan Madkour,
I still say they’re setting it up so Shae’s betrayal will be even more devastating than in the books.
I never liked her …..
Yellow DogQuote Reply
Honestly, I think Danny’s throne room was very telling.
When she looked up, kind of looked like dragon destruction. The snow?
We already know Targaryens wed each other to keep the bloodline pure. This could cement value to the Jon Snow being a Targaryen via Nedd’s sister. Maybe they changed the prophecy to show the ruling of Snow and the Mother of Dragons… 2 Targaryens once again on the throne??
Just a though. Otherwise… absolute best season finale in television history! Simply amazing!
WhitewalkingbitchQuote Reply
And imo dragons destroyed the throne room. Making way for Snow to land on it.
Deborah Ambridge FisherQuote Reply
DanofhouseStark,
Agreed!
Himilce StorbirnQuote Reply
Was it snow or ashes in the HOTU when Dany walked into the throne room? I thought it was ash falling and maybe indicated that Kings Landing will be burned to ashes and she won’t want the iron throne in the end. GRRM has stated in interview that D & D know the eventual ending he has visioned just in case he croaks before he finishes writing the books. But I do like the idea of it being snow and that being symbolic of Jon Snow taking the throne in the end. I so want it to be him!
SusanQuote Reply
Ok… I know they left the visions out of THOTU, but… Snow in the throne room? The wall? I’m going to go ahead and take that as more evidence that Jon is TPTWP. Thoughts?
LaurenQuote Reply
Trollsbane,
I agree with most of what you said. I love the series, and I have almost never been bothered by any of the changes made, but parts of this episode were sort of botched. Winterfell, Half-hand… not great. I did like the HOTU, but I feel like they should have done just a little something more given how much it was built up for half the season.
Default KingQuote Reply
Broke my heart in Winterfell
Delighted me road-tripping w/ Brienne & Jamie
Thrilled me with dragons & misty scary things in the snow
Touched my heart with wishes only possible in the stars & moon
A woman made sad with the departure of a great character
A fan made happy with another season of superior superior excellent acting & production values, exquisite!
Thanks D & D Bryan George and esp directors cinematographers cast crew for such brilliant work
Can’t wait for Season 3!!!
sweetonsigmafilmsQuote Reply
Mimsy,
I agree with this..
Dany was like “Thank you for teaching me this lesson” to Ducksauce…
Now in season 3, we get to see “Dany the Conquerer” =)
ArthurQuote Reply
Yep, I pointed that out to my girlfriend! He beebopped out of there like a teenager! Good catch.
EdQuote Reply
Yellow Dog,
Yellow Dog,
I would like to know your prediction, but it was blocked.
SkywalkerIsDeadQuote Reply
I agree wholeheartedly (well, didn’t love the end, but not because of the special effects, I think the current WW look fine). I’m not a purist by any means, but the Winterfell thing really is confusing. Did they take Theon back with them? Did they give him away? Who sacked Winterfell? They didn’t have to show it, Luwin could have given it as exposition at the tree, unless pure exposition is to passe for HBO.
skipdutchQuote Reply
Josh,
I hadn’t realized, that is really weird about Robb and the gods… wonder if they’re gonna have him kill Karstark under a weirwood after this.
valQuote Reply
Well, he wasn’t in the North. There are no Weirwoods near by. His mother worships the Seven. Sansa does as well. Didn’t Ned marry Catelynn at Riverrun in the light of the seven?
Tyrion PimpslapQuote Reply
Arthur,
And then Daario kicks her right back down again. ;)
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
Those White Walkers scare the bejesus out of anyone else?
Next Sunday is gonna be brutal… may be time to reread ASOS.
The GreatsteveQuote Reply
No thanks.
Sorry if I’m saying what I think. It’s my opinion. I love the books and really enjoyed the series so far. But the HotU was a punch in the face. All that scream “where are my dragons?!” just to see Drogo again? Please…
. nathyQuote Reply
Someone please tell me what TPTWP stands for.
Deborah Ambridge FisherQuote Reply
I read the books, plan on reading again this summer but I also loved this episode! I missed the prophecies but enjoyed it anyway. I had tears in ky eyes as we said goodbye to Luwin.
nymeria44Quote Reply
I’m ambivalent towards the HOTU–knowing the amount of backstory that had been cut, I wasn’t too surprised they had changed the visions to things that neither comment on the backstory nor give away future events. BUT, I found myself wondering why the scenes of her walking through the Wall and so on were so drawn out, as they could have more than easily had shown multiple visions through the other doors, each one taking 15-20 seconds or whatever. An extra minute is too much to ask for a show such as this?
BUT the new visions were pretty powerfully made and I liked them quite a bit, so there’s that.
And the ending makes up for everything, besides. I give it an A. In combination with last week’s episode this has been easily the most exciting climax in television history.
BaramosQuote Reply
God…
It was so awesome when Dany got chained her babies were all just looking at her as if saying;
“Tell us mommy, tell us, we are ready!”
And BAMM that Warlock was burning!
ArthurQuote Reply
Thank you David Benioff and D. B. Weiss:
-for showing the White Walkers virtually naked. Not even George RR Martin described them so vividly.
-for showing us plenty of footage of dragons in this episode…with their mother carrying them. Been waiting for that.
-for keeping us guessing by not doing everything by the book. Over all, it looks good.
Dear HBO:
A Song Of Ice And Fire is as big now as Lord Of The Rings was back in the late 1960′s….probably bigger. George is rocking the New York Times Best sellers list. C’mon, it’s time to fund this show for longer seasons….or even back-to-back season production. It’s time.
That is all.
surfKrakenQuote Reply
Ewwww. That’s disgusting
Renaud Besse-Bourdier,
JimQuote Reply
Oh, and I liked the scene with Arya and Jaqen, but I really wish they’d knock it off with the giving the kills to the Red God stuff. It followed the theology of the books the first time, because the 3 would have died in fire; but there is no way Jaqen would tell Arya that she could kill Joffrey and Cersei and the rest as more offerings to the Red God. That spoiled an otherwise great scene. I don’t understand why they felt the need to do that. Someone writing this episode doesn’t understand the Faceless Men and thinks they worship the Red God. /sigh
To those who said that it is pronounced Val-ar mor-Gool-is, I bow to your superior wisdom.
LangkardQuote Reply
Nah. Roz wasn’t there to have sex in the background. That seems to be the only way things got explained this season.
Deborah Ambridge FisherQuote Reply
trfhms,
We need a new word for what Peter Dinklage does as Tyrion – “acting” just doesn’t cut it.
Yellow DogQuote Reply
Hah!! Great catch there – hadn’t noticed that!
EdQuote Reply
Wow that Tyrion, Shae scene was the most powerful emotional moment in the series for me thus far. The cgi at the end was freaking movie quality.. Superb. Even tho he did not say much in this episode.. Tywin went from having become semi likeable to the complete prick that he is.. awesome. Weakest scenes I agree with most everybody else were the Robb and Ros scenes. I’m gonna miss Doreah for her looks but holy crap Dany and Ygritte once again got my testosterone flowing. I wasn’t impressed with Mel/Carice’s acting thus far but she nailed that scene with Stannis IMHO.
DennisQuote Reply
. nathy,
Well she repeated Mirri Maz Duur’s prophecy again, so it does serve something of a similar purpose to the book’s version, if with different prophecies. Also, how can you not love the emotional power behind the Drogo scene and her walking away from it? When something reminds me of a movie like the Last Temptation of Christ, they’re doing something right.
BaramosQuote Reply
Tywin’s horse doing its thing before going into the iron throne room…. What a hint.
franklinQuote Reply
Lauren,
Yeah, I’m sure the dude is gonna rise right up from being dead, totally sane and whole, completely accept his destiny and be a good little princeling without any weird complexes or whatsoever. And not a single person will wonder why there’s an undead man on the throne.
It is known.
:p
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
I agree on these counts. During that conversation between Robb and Cat I was hoping it would turn out that Robb had already tied the knot, that it was too late. And I was hoping that Luwin would explain what happened, not for my sake so much as for the new viewers.
But otherwise, it was a great episode. I didn’t mind the changes to the HOTU.
HumMis1349Quote Reply
Very hit and miss epi. I am disappoint.
Goods
I liked the throne room scene, Marg being a bamf, Sansa being secretly overjoyed, yes plz. Also Sansa and LF’s scene was pretty good (he’s so grossssss but that’s a good thing to get across).
Jaime and Brienne I LOVE YOU FOREVER AND EVER. NCW AND GWEN PLEASE QUIT THIS STUPID SHOW AND GO MAKE A SPINOFF WHERE YOU NEVER MAKE IT BACK TO KL AND HAVE BIG, BADASS, SNARKY-YET-DEEPLY-HONORABLE WARRIOR BABIES ACROSS THE NARROW SEA. SPECIAL EPISODE ENDING SHORTS CAN BE VARYS AND LF SNARK.
Cat talking fucking sense into Robb, but see below.
Luwin death scene was great, very moving. I like how Osha said “Norths’ the wrong way.” :)
Okay the scene with Drogo/Rhaego was sweet, I will give them that. Also the Red Keep in snow and the wall scene were awesome (the wall bit being THE ONE prophetic that they actually KEPT).
Even though they made Stephen Dillane do OOC things I still would watch him paint a fucking wall, I love him as Stannis UGH. Melisandre was also good here.
Yay they completed teh Winterfell plot! Love it. I’m glad that they wrapped it up Ramsey seige and with Theon getting captured (though BTW I wonder, how will Cat and Robb find out about Bran and Rickon since for some unfathomable reason they wrote out them finding out via Raven???)
Arya / Jaqen scene was good. Nothing to say about it though, really. Just a solid job.
Okays
Jon’s stuff, whatever. He’s kind of more dense than the books but IDC. Mostly it was fine. Ygritte is fucking amazing in the TV series I want her babies.
Theon stuff was okay though I think Alfie was overacting but maybe on purpose IDK.
No Davos! Cliffhanger. :( Not sure how long that’s gonna stay secret! It’s okay, I just like TV!Davos and would like to see him!
Bads
Dany’s… um almost everything?
What the hell was the house of the undying. They need to learn how to build fucking suspense, it was hamhanded all the way through. The dragons burning Pyat Pree looked really stupid. No prophecy AT ALL was unforgivable. And so what the fuck was the point of her entire arc this season if no prophecy, fail at development of Jorah relationship, failure at showing her trying to be a savvy negotiator but learning that approach doens’t always work despite best attempts (instead what, she “learned” from Xaro… not to trust people? she knew that already and said as much in ep 5), nope she’ll just steal half of Qarth’s shit, kill their king and run? What is she a fucking PIRATE? What is this shit? She also would not murder Doreah like that. That kind of shit is reserved for the truly unforgivable (slavers and murderers). Doreah didn’t kill anyone. In fact I do not understand her motives at all? Xaro was like, hey come sleep with me and I won’t murder you? Uh, I’d take that deal and Dany would understand. It seems very OOC for TV Doreah to abandon the dragons & Dany so easily. They should have just killed her in the Red Waste. What was the point? …Also, who is she going to have sexy times with if not her or Irri?!? Fucking pissed. FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK.
Stannis would never strangle Melisandre nor should he. He should be cold, silent, brooding, not randomly and disgustingly abusive ala Robert. Gross HBO, just gross. And Fail. He doesn’t blame her for what happens, and again NOR SHOULD HE. Also yay making him look like a puppet and nothing more . Also, did they read the fucking 3rd book STANNIS DOES NOT KNOW HE KILLED RENLY, HBO, HE DOES NOT KNOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND??? HE. DOESN’T. KNOOOOOW.
The white walkers looked completely stupid. HBO, you need to learn how to direct your CGI shots so you see FLASHES of the scary things, rather than long shots, so they don’t look COMPLETELY FAKE AND STUPID. Why not have this scene in the dark like it should be? The CGI would have worked WAY better in the dark. I suppose it was because there would be technical problems with filming in Iceland at night.
Robb’s response to Cat re: Talisa was completely wrong in every way. He knows he’s being an idiot and that should be part of it. He’s OVERCOME BY HIS DICK AND HE KNOWS IT. Instead HBO’s like NO ROBB’S RIGHT HE SHOULD GET TO MARRY HER AND ITS NOT WRONG AT ALL NONONONO. Which is stupid. Robb IS wrong. Also if she’s really from fucking volantis why is she vowing by the seven? Does not fuckign compute.
stanvosftwQuote Reply
I guess Ghost was truly a Ghost this season. Our albino direwolf just vanished into thin air. This episode was truly “meh”…nothing special.
I feel kinda disappointed.
Valdred DethstormQuote Reply
In the book it was made clear that the scene was entirely staged, and the actors did a superb job of acting people who are acting.
Yellow DogQuote Reply
That was a piece of shit! No way for Jon to explain why he killed Qorhin when he gets back to the wall. The White Walker scene was fucking cornballing all the way down the mountain. Special effects took precedence over storytelling in an episode that needed more dialogue and less CGI to set us up for next season. We had plenty of eye candy last week, and I think using action to progress the story forward in this episode was more confusing than satisfying. It reminded me of a bad episode of True Blood, and all episodes of True Blood are complete shit, so you can guess where I’m placing Valar Morghulis. A major disappointment which has nothing to do with them straying from the path of the novels, just all around bad television.
Still love the show and I will wait in great anticipation to watch next season, but that was by far the worst episode of the series in my opinion.
MeekyReekyRamasyQuote Reply
surfKraken,
George actually described the others as wearing armor.
DogmayorQuote Reply
Gonfaloniere,
People always paint Brienne as that pretty maiden in a big ugly woman costume, but they forget that she is a fierce warrior despite her innocence. You have to also keep in mind that in the show we cannot see behind Brienne’s eyes. Taking into account something that happens in the future, methinks she’s a pretty good liar – very straight-faced. She is tortured, but she had to do what she had to do – and she’s definitely not going to give Jaime the pleasure of seeing her struggle with the kills. I think she made her point, LOL.
The InstrumentalistQuote Reply
Langkard,
Well, they worship the God of Many-Faces. If R’hllor is the only god in that religion, then he represents Death, similarly to the Stranger, and so he is the one the Faceless Men consider the aspect of the God of Many-Faces from that religion. So I don’t really see it as a contradiction for him to use the Red God as an analogy.
BaramosQuote Reply
My first thought was that they resembled (in behavior) to the Pirates of the Caribbean undead. Maybe that’s why they left Sam alone. They’re too focused on their mission and Sam’s not an urgent target.
Circular reasoning here. ;)
MimsyQuote Reply
I literally winced at this, because I totally get what you’re saying, lol. (The metaphor, I mean. I liked the episode. But OUCH.)
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
MeekyReekyRamasy,
? How can he not explain why he killed Qhorin? He knew it was all an act from the last episode we saw them in (episode 8), when Qhorin whispered to him “see it isn’t for nothing” and then immediately started screaming crazily at him and knocking him down the slope. How would he not understand that it was all part of a plan? Qhorin had to make it look real, that’s why he played on Jon’s emotions this episode. He actually got Jon angry so that when he let Jon knock the sword out of his hand and run him through, it would look real.
Your other complaints seem reasonable, just I don’t share them…
BaramosQuote Reply
Dany heard a baby cry when she first entered HOTU. As the scene went on it changed to the cry of a dragon. IMO.
Deborah Ambridge FisherQuote Reply
franklin,
Wasn’t one a girl?
Skid MarxQuote Reply
Anybody know if that was ash or snow in the throne room? My TV was super dark :(
DerpstradamusQuote Reply
Yes, this woman also wanted that for Dany, the loves she lost. Surprising how often tears filled the eyes in this hour, so much intense stuff.
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Baramos,
I like Dany and Drogo. But I just love Rhaegar and I can’t understand why they decided to put Drogo there instead of the prophecies. I think they wanted to please the non-readers because the were really sad and disappointed when Drogo died. But still… they are changing too much. It doesn’t make much sense why Dany was so mad during 4 episodes looking for her children and it ended just like that. I was expecting too much, I admit.
. nathyQuote Reply
Derpstradamus,
Snow, which pretty much gives away the ending of the series.
I had hoped that George was going to avoid the whole rags-to-riches trope, buuuut…
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
Wow: shocked at all the love for Tyrion’s Shae scene: I thought that was his worst acting of the season/series. Seemed so fake. But hey, if everybody loves it, thats cool , just keep making the episodes!!! I can live with it!
OnionQuote Reply
I KNOW!!! I want it to be Jon as well. That scene was gorgeous! How can people not like this? I don’t understand.
MimsyQuote Reply
I think snow. As in the Endless Winter that would result from the Others winning. A glimpse of a possible future. Not sure what she was reaching for on the throne when she heard the dragons again. A sword hilt possibly?
LangkardQuote Reply
Even though there were no Undying in the House of the Undying it was still a great episode.
CarolynQuote Reply
Tim,
I’m not a reader (I just look here because I think that what readers have to say is more interesting and I try to avoid spoilers) but I definitely got that Jon was supposed to kill Qhorin, I think his final words affirmed that for anyone with lingering doubts anyway. And I think they included that line about infiltrating the wildlings in the “previously on GoT” thing at the beginning.
As for Winterfell, I did feel like there was a lot left unexplained – I assumed that the men from the iron islands must have burned winterfell, but that doesn’t make any sense since they were going home anyway, although I have had a suspicious feeling about that tall guy that was always egging Theon on so maybe he had something to do with it? I was most confused by the lack of northerners there, though. Why would they all leave Winterfell when there were hundreds of northerners surrounding it in the first place? Hopefully there will be some more explanation of this next season, without it, that whole sequence will seem poorly thought-out for non-book-readers.
Even as a non-reader, I have to agree with peoples’ disappointment with the HotU scenes, I understand that they were trying to fit a lot in this episode, but it just didn’t seem like the Warlock, after all they built him up to be, would have made it so easy for Dany to get through to the Dragons. I was definitely waiting for more temptations and obstacles to her escape.
AnonQuote Reply
God Damn It! It went by too fast! The episode was fantastic! Yes the lack of prophesies was disappointing but guys, if i was a non reader, and I see a wolfs bloody head on a body, thats not a prophesy, thats a spoiler. I would have liked a blue flower at the wall however, thatd be nice Seeing Drogo and Jason again was fantastic, glad he came back for a bit. Jaquens sequence was cool too, the facechange was slickly done. I was a bit scared that theyd rush the Sansa Littlefinger thing but it was alright. The fight between Jon and Qhorin was good, its just that the reasoning behind the fight wasn’t entirely played out I thought. Maybe a whisper between the two while their swords are crossed closely or maybe something before idk but still I liked Qhorins last words, kinda filled in the gap I mentioned. AS for the white walkers, oh my god. I had no idea that theyd go into such detail as that close up. At first, I thought the face was quite, eh. But then when he screamed, I got chills (haha). Honestly George, cut us a break and give us some Lord of the Rings characters as back up for our boys. Hell we’ll take Gollum! All in all, it was a great episode, on the edge of my uncomfortable seat the whole time, and now comes the longgggggg wait.
JohnnyBoyQuote Reply
ThePinkDragon,
I might have been a little too harsh with that statement
MeekyReekyRamasyQuote Reply
I’m glad they didn’t really fully explain the sack of winterfell and such. It’s much better for the show to have the non-readers (Why readers are confused about it is beyond me) unsure of what took place over the next ten months, which will keep them talking about it, rather than just outright saying Oh yeah, The Boltons killed the ironmen and burned the castle. They’re kind of dicks. It would make for awful television to have them explain everything completely, right away.
AndrewQuote Reply
ThePinkDragon,
Choose Your Own Adventure: Game of Thrones Edition!
nightwolfQuote Reply
stanvosftw,
Well, he did blame her in the book, actually. Or at least listened to Davos when he blamed her and made him Hand to counteract her influence. In any case, he didn’t consider her to have been entirely forthright. You’re right that he didn’t strangle her but I don’t find it entirely out of keeping with this “version” of the character. It reminded me of when he had sex with her–he is very stolid and holds in all his emotions, but then they come bursting out violently.
BaramosQuote Reply
A great episode! One small gripe though: It is not made clear why Winterfell is burning. We get that the ironmen accepted Rob’s amnesty and handed over Theon to (presumably) Ramsey Bolton, who had besieged Wintefell. But why burn the place? If it’s the departing iromen who burned the castle you’d think the northmen would be unhappy and less likely to let them walk and if we are to assume that Bolton burned the castle then his motivation for doing so is entirely unclear.
Any thoughts?
Howland ReedQuote Reply
the white walkers looked 1000 times better than the ones in the pilot! awesome
Jack SlapQuote Reply
Derpstradamus,
That was a big thought of mine as well…. either way is very meaningful, perhaps it was meant to be ambiguous?
John-Michael LelievreQuote Reply
MeekyReekyRamasy,
Maybe, maybe not. It’s your opinion and I”m not attacking you for it at all.
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
Does Stannis Baratheon have’ta choke a bitch?
UhpyurshboQuote Reply
Many good scenes and great acting: Varys and Ross (the silence was perfect. I believe that there was no ambient noise in that scene and I really liked it), Varys, Tyrion and Pod, Tyrion and Shae, Ludwin and the kids, Luwin and Theon, Brienne and Jaime and Stannis of course (Dillane is a miracle as Stannis).
HOTU: I think they simplified the prophecies and that´s fine. I mean, the throne room burned by dragons? and the ice on the throne). Love the dragons and the direwolves (shaggydog at last)
I´m sorry for Irri (and for you Knurk) but that Doreah chick had to go: I want my Missandei
Halfhand and Jon´s scene was no good. Halfhand´s reaction was messy and out of the blue. It lacked emotion, depth and the pace was just bad.
The white walkers cgi I don´t like so much. But the idea of their faces like trees is great (and quite intriguing!).
One more time, the acting was the best I think.
Question: what happened with Dagmer? is “going home” going to the Iron Islands? I think FaB´s theory confused me. Roose/RAmsay is at Winterfell´s gates, no?
andreaQuote Reply
Book Dany has TONS of prophetic dreams. In particular in Book 1. And the fact is, we’ve never seen a single one of them in the TV series (so I’m not sure what you are referring to with the above). This leads me to believe that we will continue not to see any prophecy from her, instead we’ll see random yelling, which is all D&D apparently choose to write for her.
stanvosftwQuote Reply
Howland Reed,
I think we’ll get an explanation when Ramsay is introduced next season. Sadly, that means we have a 10 month wait to find out how they handled it. My guess is we’ll see Theon turned over to Bolton and then Bolton talking about his ordering the razing of Winterfell.
LangkardQuote Reply
The Halfhand did suggest to Jon in the one private conversation they were able to have that his men’s deaths need to be made to mean something. He suggested too that having a man in good with Mance might make all the difference. I don’t think you’re giving non-readers enough credit – many may put two and two together.
Whether or not they do, though, almost doesn’t matter. Right now, what are non-readers thinking about Jon’s storyline? “Did Jon really just become a wildling? He can’t have, no way! But Ygritte’s got the hots for him – she’s been laying it on pretty thick, and there almost seemed to be something there before she escaped. Maybe he wanted to? But no, he’s too much Ned’s son – honor and duty have been drilled into him. But on the other hand, he almost ran away once before. And this time his friends aren’t there to bring him back. I wonder what will happen next season!”
Just as GRRM doesn’t spell everything out in the books, leaving room for fan speculation – which by the way, helps generate buzz and interest – so too the TV show leaves viewers wondering what the next season will bring.
I’d make a similar argument for leaving the identity of Winterfell’s arsons unrevealed. Speculating about the identity of the attackers will be a way to maintain interest among non-book reader viewers until season 3 picks the story back up. And aside from a purely narrative perspective, I’d argue that the current lack of resolution to the Winterfell story lends itself better to advertising season 3. “Who burned Winterfell!?” seems to me a better question for season 3 teaser ads to pose than “Why did Bolton’s Bastard burn Winterfell?”. If we knew Bolton men did it, we’d be waiting all of season 3 for Roose to betray Robb; the RW wouldn’t be as blindsiding as it was in the books.
Just my two cents. I’d be happy to hear why you think things should’ve been handled differently, and why viewers should be forearmed with these extra bits of knowledge going into season 3.
bardardQuote Reply
Howland Reed,
That was the weakest part of the episode, which is a shame because I felt it took away from Luwin’s death scene.
Default KingQuote Reply
SkywalkerIsDead,
SPOILER! SPOILER! SPOILER!
Jaime and Brienne are just non-stop awesomesauce throughout A Storm of Swords, but one scene I think everyone is looking forward to is Brienne and Jaime in an actual to-the-death sword fight. That’s what I hope D&D will keep next season.
Yellow DogQuote Reply
Howland Reed,
Perhaps they don’t want to reveal the Boltons are bad guys yet. It would lessen the shock of RW a little if people already had a bead on them
House SnowQuote Reply
Baramos,
Yeah ,I guess your right. I was just really wanting them to have a deep discussion about him turning his cloak. It would of built the sword fighting scene up and made it more dramatic.
MeekyReekyRamasyQuote Reply
BTW, am I the only one who thinks that Luwin’s death was kind of stupid? He already knew that Osha had Bran and Rickon, so, why not hiding with them? Why trying to convince Theon’s sorry ass to take the black and escape? Maybe he didn’t really kill Bran and Rickon, but he still killed two innocent kids and Ser Rodrik.
Blah. I didn’t like this episode.
Valdred DethstormQuote Reply
If you’re not watching the same show as the rest of us, I’m not sure how we’re going to have a meaningful discussion about it.
stileQuote Reply
Howland Reed,
How far into the books have you read? If you’ve just read the first two, then don’t highlight this spoiler: The Boltons wanted to usurp the Starks. Ramsay burned Winterfell in the books, and i’m 99% sure he did it in the show as well. The reveal is probably going to be that Roose is claiming the Ironmen resisted, and his bastard had to storm the walls. Of course, since we got to see what happened at Winterfell, we know the ironmen wanted to yeild, and so we’ll know Roose isn’t being honest.
AndrewQuote Reply
Craziness craziness craziness!!! The dragons got they flame on and finally the real reveal of what everyone will soon have to dread…WHITE WALKERS! Dany has the best chance of survival because they cant stand the fire
airjordanea18Quote Reply
Tyrion Pimpslap,
KG,
He is the King in the north, stop deluding yourselves. D&D are too dimwitted and busy telling Ros to go full-frontal to give a shit.
DBQuote Reply
Someone needs to make an animated gif of Ygritte thwacking Jon with his own sword over and over.
LangkardQuote Reply
This
TurncloakQuote Reply
You didn’t see the giant gaping wound in the poor dude’s tummy?!
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
I. Came.
DekarQuote Reply
I’m a non-reader too and I’m just like your husband! Didn’t understand the meaning of that dead at all! Would you mind explaining to me too?
Deborah Ambridge Fisher,
PitiQuote Reply
Yea, wasn’t really feeling this episode.
It was very subtle with Halfhand luring Jon into killing him to gain the trust of wildlings. The whole time they were fighting I was hoping they both meet face to face and halfhand would just whisper “For The Watch”
HOTU was a letdown, the visions were ok, but I was hoping for more destruction.
Winterfell burning is more a less a cliffhanger for next season, I do wonder though if they would of cast Ramsay for this season if him making a apperance would of made it a hell of a lot better.
Also anyone think that the White Walker at the end was Coldhands. He was riding a Elk which made me immediately think it was him. Maybe just introducing him a little early.
Lord BennettQuote Reply
ThePinkDragon,
What I mean, is why he didn’t hide with them on episode 8, “The Prince of Winterfell”.
Why the sudden interest in helping an asshole and then die?
Valdred DethstormQuote Reply
Remember when Robb was talking to Roose? He said, “We will allow any ironborn man to return back to Pyke, that surrenders, except Theon Greyjoy.” ?
Apparently he got word into Winterfell and the men took him up on it.
EdQuote Reply
I loved the entire finale, but I particularly enjoyed:
The mother****ing White Walkers. When you hear three blasts, what the **** you gonna do?
Brienne and Jaime. No further explanation needed. Watching these two is going to be the highlight of the third season for me.
Arya and Jaqen. A fond farewell to Tom Wlaschiha and the incredible job he did in this role. Given how much they have to cover in the next few seasons and the tangential nature of the Oldtown scenes, I’m not hopeful that we’ll see Jaqen again, but you never know.
Tyrion and Shae. Peter Dinklage continues to be an acting god and Sibel Kikelli actually did some damn fine work here. I totally buy It’s going to be very interesting to see how they handle Shae’s betrayal during (probably) Season 4. She’ll probably have to be coerced. Regardless, I imagine that it will be even more heart-wrenching for Tyrion than it was on the page.
Dany, Drogo, and Rhaego in the House of the Undying. I understand that there’s going to be a large segment of the fanbase that is very disappointed with that sequence, specifically with the absence of all the prophecies. But if they weren’t going to go full-out freak fest, I was glad that they decided to go with a scene had some real emotional resonance.
Luwin’s Death. Donald Sumpter has been a very underrated performer on this show. Sad to see him go. Glad they kept Osha’s mercy killing.
Jon killing the Halfhand. They may have taken some liberties in setting it up, but that sequence ultimately played out very well. Curious to see when Ghost will show up again, though.
And then, on a lighter note then there was the moment where Ros grabs Varys’ crotch, only to find nothing there, and the look that Varys gives her afterwards. The scene probably wasn’t necessary, but that drew a big laugh from me.
Honestly, two things that bothered me. First was not making it clear who burned Winterfell. The way it was shot suggests that it was the Ironborn, though readers know it was supposed to be the Boltons. I get that they don’t want to tip their hands about the Bolton’s treacherous intentions too soon, but my knowledge of what’s to come meant this scene didn’t play quite as strongly as I would have liked.
Second was Robb and Talisa getting married in the Light of the Seven (he worships the Old Gods, and if she’s from Volantis, she probably doesn’t worship the Seven either). Granted, there probably wasn’t a weirwood handy. I seem to be in the minority, however, in that I have no problem with the relationship itself. I actually think that it makes the whole story more interesting that Robb is marrying for love rather than a sense of honor or obligation, and with full knowledge of the consequences. It gives his character more agency, distinguishes him clearly from Ned, and makes his ultimate fate even more tragic.
JaredQuote Reply
Does anyone know a link to some HD pictures of Dany walking around with her dragons on her arms like falcons?
I need need need a HD pic of that for my desktop!
ArthurQuote Reply
He’s an honorable maester. He is sworn to Winterfell not to the Starks, as he made plain while talking to Theon.
LangkardQuote Reply
the icy throne is not enough?
andreaQuote Reply
Lord Bennett,
Coldhands isn’t a White Walker. White Walkers are a race all their own, not former humans and such. Those are Wights, which is probably what Coldhands is.
AndrewQuote Reply
A question for non-book viewers: Are you at all confused by Jon’s killing of Qhorin? It seems to me pretty clear, at least to me, that Jon understood precisely what Qhorin was intimating in the previous episode; but I’m a book reader, so I already knew what was up.
Personally, I’m delighted that they did not spell everything out. It’s hardly like Jon and Qhorin enjoyed much privacy. Whispering would have drawn too much suspicion, and they could easily have been overheard anyway. Qhorin knew what he was doing. He knew Jon would catch on and do what he had to do. Does everything need to be stated?
StriderQuote Reply
Valdred Dethstorm,
Oh, I see. I think his training as a Maester just made him try to pull out the good in Theon. You’ve met those kinds of people, I’m sure — the unrelentingly optimistic, who try to help even the assholes, you know? It can be both a flaw and a virtue.
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
DanofhouseStark,
Thank You.
Reader. Loved it.
winterfellQuote Reply
Yellow Dog,
I see what your saying, but hey he is Jamie Lannister he loves a challenge. Always needing to prove himself, think about him wanting to best Ned Stark. Jamie is gushing with hubris. So hopefully they will keep that scene, plus that is how they are introduced to a certain goat.
SkywalkerIsDeadQuote Reply
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Thank you Pimpslap, HOTU left me feeling stood up for the senior prom and here you are offering to take me to another dance and I still have a good time.
MrsWunQuote Reply
I thought the episode made it clear that Dany needed to be with her dragons, because the dragons were strongest when she was near them. In turn, the Warlocks power was stronger when the dragons magic was at it’s peak. The Warlock underestimated Dany’s overall power, which made him dead. Oopsie.
MimsyQuote Reply
I thought Stannis’ scene was lame. I would have been okay with D&D leaving that out entirely, and letting the rest of the show breathe just a bit more.
But that’s a minor criticism. – I loved it overall.
EdQuote Reply
Howland Reed,
Ummm, I hadn’t gotten that, but it makes sense. That is likely how this plays out (I forgot the whole amnesty thing, but it was mentioned in the ‘previously on’). Still, Its not clear who burned Winterfell, and I don’t understand why no one asked the question. Every book-reader assumes Ramsay, every non-reader assumes the Iron Islanders.
I think, and this goes back to LOTR movies, that its hard for me to watch and enjoy a show adapted from a book I have read and really enjoy it the first time. While I enjoyed this season, the only episode that I actually was able to initially watch with a huge grin on my face for the duration was Blackwater.
skipdutchQuote Reply
ThePinkDragon,
Langkard,
I get it, but it didn’t make a lot of sense to me. I would have been more comfortable with him dying by the hands of Ramsay’s men than by Dagmer’s spear. I felt it was kind of cheap and stupid. Just my opinion.
Was it too hard to just show him bleeding and dying after Osha and the kids came out from the crypts?
Valdred DethstormQuote Reply
I can not wait until next season!!! Sooooo awesome! And Benjen is leading the Whitewalkers wooooweee! I wonder if Manse Raider is going to take John under his wing? Would be so cool if he became king of the Wildlings, fought the Whitewalkers and joined Robb to fight the Lannisters.
I need a new season tomorrow whimpers…
DTrojanetteQuote Reply
The last two episodes gave us some seriously epic television. Sigh, now we wait again. And it’s a shame they had to squeeze so hard to get this story into only ten episodes. Still, they really tried really hard. For having 11 plot threads to wrap up, this was a pretty amazing hour. My full review here.
Andy GavinQuote Reply
Andrew,
Exactly. They needed more than one cliffhanger to hold newbies over to next season. I was actually a little worried that too many storylines had acceptable wrap-ups: Joffrey, Sansa, Tyrion, Dany, Jon – even Ros.
Yellow DogQuote Reply
Ed,
yes? it was a favor then? Thanks, I was completely confused. Ido remember Robb and Roose talk but I couldn´t relate it to Dagmer´s blow to Theon´s head.
andreaQuote Reply
Trollsbane,
I agree completely; they really fucked that episode. I absolutely hated it. Here’s why.
As a reader, I can sympathize and understand the need for smaller changes here and there or even bigger ones, like they’ve done all season, since it’s still kept the show rolling along and the overall plot in line. That being said, they didn’t accomplish any of the things I was hoping to see from this episode, not one.
I got to about the 45 minute mark of watching and it felt like all of that had happened in 15 minutes…because literally NOTHING happened. I didn’t expect to see everything from the book in this one that they could do, but my main problem is that they didn’t even attempt to do any of the following.
1.) Keep the Theon story as is-obviously since they already killed off Sir Rodrick that was fucked from the start but they still could have done a bit with the Bastard of Bolton arriving with some men, saying that they were from Pyke or something, then attacking Theon’s men.
2.) Showing some of Dany’s ACTUAL visions-all they had to do was show her quickly peaking in to some rooms and just walking by-it didn’t have to be long, and it didn’t have to be ALL of the major ones, but at least one of them; i.e. Red Wedding, Prince Aegon, the Mad King saying “burn them all”, etc.
3. The Others…I certainly wasn’t expecting to see them in this episode. I’d speculated with other fans and a lot of us thought that HBO would end tonight’s ep with JUST the epic hornblows, with a bunch of the Night’s Watch together in tow to see it. When we quickly realize that’s not the case and it’s just Sam, Grenn and Dolorous Ed, I was like, oh well that’s fine, as long as the horns are still epic. Then, the horns are super drawn out and there’s no sense of the danger they’re in, but even with that I was like, oh, shit they’re actually gonna show Sam kill the Other! But then that quickly faded too as we just see a ton of weights and a few Others, marching off as if they’re going to war. Nothing like the actual attack that the Night’s Watch as a force has to fend off. Why couldn’t we have seen them as a force? The viewer knows that Mormont and the rest are still supposed to be together and that only Jon, the Halfhand and a few others went ranging ahead. Just completely stupid scene that relies on being epic for people who haven’t read.
4. Jon-Qhorin fight-The viewer has no idea why Qhorin is acting like that toward Jon. They briefly mentioned it in the one episode but they don’t actually have the conversation where the Halfhand tells Jon he needs to kill him when the time comes…why couldn’t they have had that? It takes 15 seconds of screen time and actually sets the stage for this. Instead, they’re playing off the idea that Jon was more indecisive about his true loyalty to the watch and does it just for his pure survival.
Again, I didn’t expect all of these to follow the book in the episode. But I cannot for the life of me fathom how they completely managed to ruin every one of those storylines, and made this garbage finale after probably the best hour of television I’ve ever seen in last week’s “Blackwater”. Still love the show and it will be great to see the first half of Storm of Swords next year, just wish that tonight was more memorable than it will be.
Derek WolffQuote Reply
So epic. Religious book reader but I digg the changes, I like not knowing what’s going to happen. Mad no Ramsay, or LIGHTBRINGER. Need some lightbringer in season 3 or I will very upset
Lady forlornQuote Reply
Ed,
I agree, but he’s lame so makes sense
DTrojanetteQuote Reply
I concur!
Handmaiden of DanyQuote Reply
I watch this every week with my husband a non reader and NEW this season. While I loved it. He said ” well I think it was weak for a season finale.” Also, he had no idea as to why “Jon killed that other crow.” He was super happy for Sansa. And he had no idea what those zombies were. That was weird, he said.
I on the other hand loved it. I cried when Luwin died. I cried when I saw Drago and the baby. I was just a mess. But I loved it.
KaliceQuote Reply
That’s not why Stannis made Davos hand. He made Davos hand because he trusts Davos and values his council. He also trusts Melisandre and values her council, and he realizes he needs both of them. Also the situation where he made Davos hand, it was to show up that idiot Florent, had very little to do with Melisandre’s “influence”.
Stannis, unlike Davos, knows that a good king listens to all his councilers.
I don’t mind that Stannis fucked Melisandre like it was his last night on earth but abusing her was unacceptable and disgusting. Also in what way are the two things in any way similar? One is abuse, and one is passionate sex. These things couldn’t be more different.
stanvosftwQuote Reply
. nathy,
Tru Dat!
Howland ReedQuote Reply
It wasn’t my favorite episode, that’s for sure, but it had its moments.
The acting, as usual, was brilliant. Theon, Luwin, Tyrion, Varys, Ygritte…shit, even Shae. Shae’s last…like, three or so episodes, she’s finally let up on the bitchiness and I am so glad for that. They’ve finally let her be as in the books. And Tyrion certainly got a hell of a scar. That will definitely suffice. I’m surprised they went that far, truly, to have Dinklage commit however much extra makeup time per shoot for the remainder of the series. I think it was the right choice though.
I cherish Stephen Dillane as Stannis and Carice van Houten as Mel. Could they have gotten more ideal actors? I can’t imagine. They KILLED it.
And another Margaery appearance. <3 <3 <3
The ending was good. The wights looked pretty great, right? And Sam right in the middle of them! How is he going to survive this??!! *excited*
But I went into the episode expecting to be underwhelmed with HotU, but even I didn’t expect it to be that lousy. *That* was worth building up over the whole second half of the season? Meeeeehhhhh.
And I wish they wouldn't have rushed Jon's fight with Qhorin. I'm glad to see non-readers in here saying they got it. But in this case, less isn't more. They could have been clearer.
And R.I.P. Luwin. I'd been holding out hope he'd make it through, but no dice. Donald Sumpter was consistently a pleasure to watch in this role.
Finally I have to mention, how awesome were my main man, Jaqen H’ghar, and Arya Stark?! Loved that resolution to that storyline. Can’t wait for more Arya next season :)
All in all, a good finale. Not perfect, but it's what we have.
ZackQuote Reply
Valdred Dethstorm,
Yeah, I kinda get what you mean. I thought it was fine, but to each his own.
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
Uhhhh, he was?
EdQuote Reply
I think the level to which the show version of the HotU may spoil the series is even greater than that.
We see Dany turn from a S(?)now covered throne to walk out beyond the wall and find her family (death?). I mean if you take it for what it appears, it points to Jon and Dany ending up in the opposite roles that George thinks his readers think they will… I guess.
DerpstradamusQuote Reply
Ummm…since Jon will be the only one to make it back, he can explain it however he wants.
Wow, I can’t believe some of the negativity on this board. That was as great an episode of television as I’ve seen in a while and yet people want to nitpick it to death. Look, I agree the show would have benefitted from some more time spent on the Qhorin/Jon plot (particularly a scene where they speak in private in more detail), and who could deny that we all would have benefitted from more HOTU visions like Rhaegar and Elia, but for everything I would have fixed, I’m sure I would have been forced to break something else due to time or budget contstraints. Seriously, a piece of shit? With all due respect, if folks think that episode was a PoS or as bad as a bad True Blood episode, I’m incredulous. Congrats to D&D for pulling off a great season and a two-episode finale that was as breathtaking as last year’s, despite having to work with material that was 10 times more complicated and less oriented towards a traditional end of season pay-off. Thanks!
AnonymousQuote Reply
I agree. I think Robb’s marriage in the book was unconvincing and weak. A teenage boy decides, after one night of sex, to break his betrothal vows and save Jayne from “ruin”–not because he loves her but only because of a minor point of honor. I say “minor,” because this is not a *Christian* feudal society. There is little indication that Jeyne would in fact have suffered irreparable harm by the loss of her virginity. And besides, Robb is a king and everyone in this society knows that kings take liberties.
I think with the HBO writers to make Robb a bit older and to have him break his promise to the Freys fully understanding the gravity of the situation and the consequences of his decision. It does add to the tragedy of it all.
StriderQuote Reply
About the red god, Jaqen meant that Arya could have chosen her death list instead of the 3 she chose.
MadmageQuote Reply
stanvosftw,
Oh my god are you in my brain?! Everything you said was so right on!! Dany’s big “Dracarys” moment was SO BAD!! Everyone in the room at my house was laughing like hyenas. A climax shouldn’t be that funny. Unintentional humor = cheese
If the scene is foreshadowing (which I hope it is – love Jon), he’ll probably rule over a hovel. Which is perfect because he’s had a lot of practice doing that at the Wall.
MegQuote Reply
I agree that could have been handled better.
But frankly, with them having to write, script, cast, film, edit, CGi and produce 10 episodes in such a short amount of time (especially considering the incredibly deep books they’re adapting), they’re going to swing and miss sometimes. I make mistakes, I mess things up, so do you.
Do does Arthur, or DB… Nobody’s perfect. Sometimes the producers do something that I bet they regret later, looking back. (shrug). I aint trippin’. It’s still the best show on TV.
EdQuote Reply
When is Jamie gonna start calling Brienne “wench”???
ShaggydogQuote Reply
Valdred Dethstorm,
I think much of how that played out with Luwin was also due to separating out the Bastard of Bolton and holding him off until next season. It made some things necessary which might be a bit confusing. However, having Ramsay appear in the final episode and do certain book things would confuse the viewers even more.
I think we’re in for a few more changes regarding Theon. Keeping him out of the series for the next 2 entire seasons isn’t likely. So, I expect that we’re going to get some of Reek rhyming with Meek earlier than in the books. I don’t know how it will play out and it certainly lessens the impact of Theon’s reappearance; but I can see why they would do it like that.
LangkardQuote Reply
Okay perhaps I forgot. What prophetic dreams did Dany have in the TV series?
The closest thing I recall is her grabbing the dragon eggs when they were in the brazier, but she was wide awake for that.
stanvosftwQuote Reply
SkywalkerIsDead,
LOL! Yes, he is still a shit and seeing Brienne take out three armed warriors probably just made him more sure he could beat her by himself.
Yellow DogQuote Reply
Shaggydog,
I think after he gets out of the “fucking with her” phase and gets into the “you’re actually kind of pissing me off” phase.
Which will be soon.
Sooooon.
ThePinkDragonQuote Reply
That’s not what I got from that scene at all. He was telling her she should come away with him to Braavos, when she stated she wanted to be able to kill like him. He was explaining that she could kill those people on her list if she became like him, that it was what Faceless Men do.
LangkardQuote Reply
I liked the episode overall but like many others, the lack of any visions in HoTU was disappointing. The Tyrion stuff was good, the Luwin/Bran/Rickon was good, and I really like seeing Stannis snap a bit…and especially then seeing him actually believe Mel.
Jon though….come on. That was poorly done. Unless they show a flashback or have some other explanation it was simply not done well. Yes, I saw Halfhand whisper the one sentence to Jon. I still don’t think it works.
To the person who said something about the Reed brothers….what are you smoking?
LordDavos12Quote Reply
HOTU was short shifted on the visions, that was something I was really looking forward to. Another person had it right, it could have been quick. The audience isn’t stupid, the Internet exists, you put some foreshadowing and symbolism and people start wondering. Remember all the stuff from LOST? If you freeze framed the show you could see clues that would have otherwise been missed. That “texture” for a lack of a better word would have been nice to see. It also lets the user know that there is more depth to this story and Dany is not just doing busy work. like again, on LOST, how stuff from season 1 you thought was irrelevant came back to be relevant in the last couple seasons (as horrible as the ultimate ending of that show was of course..).
The Jon Qhorin relationship and fight was done very poorly. The books execute it so much better “Is your sword sharp Jon Snow?” Qhorin and Jon’s flight is a tremendous character building episode for Jon, he was going to have time with Ygritte later, it wasn’t necessary to do it this way.
I don’t know what Varys is doing with Ros, it saddens me to think though that they are adding back to her character again, and taking time away from say, oh Jon. Imagine if we lost that scene and got a scene with Jon and Qhorin, maybe talking at night at camp? As much as I like Varys, and as much as I like looking at Ros, that wasn’t necessary for the story.
Chris BeasleyQuote Reply
I’ll admit I am surprised that they didn’t give any hint that Davos is alive. Granted, it fits with what we know at the end of A Clash of Kings and where he starts in A Storm of Swords, but it’s going to be hard for them to conceal that Liam Cunningham will still be contracted as a series regular next year. Then again, most people probably don’t follow this kind of news as obsessively as I do, or at the very least, don’t go actively looking for it :)
JaredQuote Reply
I don’t think that is a bad thing though, esp if they can keep the RW under wraps next year. Since they were going to bring in ramsey this year you might as well use it to mask the Boltons treachery
House SnowQuote Reply
I am a book reader and really enjoyed this final episode. I agree that people have some seriously unrealistic expectations wanting every little detail they held dear when reading the series to make it into this adaptation. Most of the complaints people are having dont really bother me. I liked the HOTU treatment, Brianne was badass and the walkers and the others looked great in my opinion. As far as everyone wondering why the killing of Qhorin was not spelled out for the non-book readers. Has anyone considered maybe they are trying to make viewers question John’s motives whether or not he would defect to the wildings. Makes for a more interesting storyline than knowing his motives completely next season especially with the relationship John will be exploring with Yigrette. I love the books and enjoy the show as well. Is the show perfect no….but it is very high quality, it does the Ice and fire universe justice and will keep me coming back for more!
JasonQuote Reply
Yo Theon is the best character. So deep so scarred, just wanting to be loved. ” what is dead may never die!” a whole year we got to wait fck!
MaxturnbullQuote Reply
+1
Jared,
I forgot what happens with Davos later. I also wondered why they did not say anything about him.
andreaQuote Reply
But that’s a lie. When shedoes start training with the Faceless Men, she finds out that she won’t get to use those skills to pursue personal vendettas. However, it makes sense that Jaqen would say that, because recruiters always lie.
HumMis1349Quote Reply
I thought it was a fantastic end to a fantastic season. Loved the double ending, where first they mirror the first season — 1) Dany becomes über fantasy goddess with dragons, 2) Dany becomes über fantasy goddess with dragons that breathe fire! But then there’s a SECOND ending, with full-on reveal of the White Walkers! Loved it.
Let me be the devil’s advocate for the HotU scenes — the show creators gave it forward momentum, and did a great job in my opinion. George RR Martin is a fantasy god, but his writing is not infallible — Dany’s story was not all that great in book 2. To go from this reborn goddess end of Book 1, to basically hanging around all of Quarth in book 2 was fairly static; even with the trims and raised stakes on the TV version (“where’s my dragons??!!!”) it was still fairly static, as a lot of TV fans had noticed with frustration. This is going to be a problem again when the dragons are basically chained up or disappeared for another whole season! o.O
StrepsiQuote Reply
And all the people hating on the show cause they read the book stop hating. They can’t make both exactly the same no book is the same as the tv. Just enjoy the show for what it is and stop crying.
MaxturnbullQuote Reply
I liked the episode. I am fairly disappointed with the portrayal of Stannis and Jaime though. It seems D&D don’t really understand these characters.
DogmayorQuote Reply
That is exactly what I thought was the reason for the ambiguity with Jon and Qhorin, as I stated in my first post up above. But I also worry that by trying to manufacture uncertainty for the non-reader viewers about whether or not Jon is really a traitor to the Night’s Watch, they might go too far and lessen those same viewers’ empathy for Jon. Jon comes across as less heroic and less sympathetic in exchange for making the viewers wonder at his motives. We’ll see if it works.
LangkardQuote Reply
Dany’s story isn’t all that great period after book one. It only goes downhill from here, except maybe when she gets the Unsullied.
LordDavos12Quote Reply
Chris Beasley,
Yes, thank you, that’s exactly what I was thinking for both Dany’s and Jon’s storylines. Just quick little things would have been enough to save them. I feel like you’re right on with the Ros bit as well…all it did was detract from the main storylines of the MAIN characters, valuable time that could have been used to accomplish something satisfying. Especially with the knowledge that Varys, as major of a player in the game as he is, really isn’t as open about his moves until ADwD, so why we’re getting little things like this this early, especially irrelevant things (Ros is a whore), I cannot say.
Derek WolffQuote Reply
I cried twice. Tyrion & Shea….poor Tyrion & Drogo & Dany & their boy. I bawled like a baby. Oh, & even though I knew Luwin was a gonner, so sad.
Laura T.Quote Reply
Loved half the finale. Hated the other half.
They dropped the ball in the House of the Undying imo. Same goes for Winterfell.
The first time I’ve been disappointed with the show.
John WQuote Reply
Hahahahaha!! Max, that’s been true for two years now and every single episode, we go through the same crap, hear from the same whiners, and every week, sensible people like you tell them the show’s gonna be different. Sigh.
and we’ll do it all again next year… LOL
EdQuote Reply
Sorry folks, flame all you want, but this one didn’t do it for me.
I’m a book reader but not a complete purist. I understand when things need to be changed for adaptation to the screen or for brevity.
The HotU left me completely hollow; I’d been looking forward to seeing their interpretation of the ACoK visions all season. Instead we get what I’m sure is a massive spoiler for events not yet revealed in the novels; that’s something I don’t relish–seeing any part of this story on screen before reading the books.
On the other hand, maybe it also prophesizes Dany not making it out of the story alive and joining Drogo and Rhaego in the Night Lands before the last page turns and personally that wouldn’t bother me in the slightest. To my eyes, she stopped being interesting after her first stop in book 3 (sorry, I don’t know how to post spoiler bars so I’m being as circumspect as I can).
The Ducksauce/Doreah bit didn’t bother me and, in fact, it made sense. The sacking of Winterfell wasn’t made completely clear…were the Iron Islanders taking rhymes-with-Pee-on back to Daddy or handing him over to a horn-blowing bastard? I vehemently disliked how they handled that whole bit and was seriously hoping that event would have at least vaguely followed the book.
Glad to see they got a cart for a growing Isaac Hempstead-Wright! I had weird images of a bean-pole Isaac being almost as tall as Hodor by season 7 yet still being carried! Luwin’s final exit was beautiful and sad. The Jaime/Brienne roadshow works wonders and I’m seriously looking forward to their scenes together next season and beyond. Liked Arya and Jaquen/FM. Small peeve, though: I was sure the word was pronounced as “Vaylar” not “Vahlor.”
PeterDQuote Reply
Yes, but in the books, it’s a HUGE deal when she finally kills someone (as I imagine it should be.) And it’s significant that the first person she kills and the second and third people she kills are responsible for the maiming of Jaime. It’s much more significant, IMO, but on the show, she killed Renly’s guards (which she also didn’t do – that was Loras!) and now she kills Stark men like it doesn’t mean anything.
It’s a very different version of Brienne, IMO. Plus, now I feel like they won’t include the swordfight between Brienne and Jaime because he didn’t know at all how good she was in the books until he started fighting her. On the show, he knows perfectly well how great she is as a swordsperson – he’d be an utter fool to take her on while wearing chains!
ETA: Snow on the Iron Throne – I didn’t take that vision as a sign that Jon Snow will be King of Westeros (also, please note that the roof was off the throne room so if he IS King, it isn’t for any happy fun times!) I thought the entire vision – the Iron Throne covered in snow, the complete absence of humans on either side of the Wall, was all “Road Not Taken” for Dany because it ends in the tent with Drogo and Rhaego – if she HAD had that baby then there would have been no dragons. And no dragons = the long winter that never ends. So because Dany turns back, away from the people she loves/woul have loved and returns to her dragons, I took that to mean that she chose a different path. She renounced what she loved (in contrast to both Joffrey and Robb “following their hearts”) in order to be the savior (in that super-Christlike pose with the dragons.)
Then she buried two people alive. So she might just be crazy and revenge obsessed.
GonfaloniereQuote Reply
Ugh I don’t know if I’m in your brain I just wish the episode had been better! :(
The only thing more hilarious than the dragon burning was the White Walkers. Laughable.
So I know a lot of people are talking about how that scene in the throne room is about Jon, but Dany’s conquest of Westeros (if it happens) would happen in winter, so that could be all it means. The winter’s snows falling through the roof of the ruined keep.
Her going to the wall, I thought, was more of a clue about Jon and how they will interact in the future. :)
What I really missed in HOTU was “THREE HEADS HAS THE DRAGON, THREE TREASONS WILL YOU KNOW, THREE MOUNTS WILL YOU RIDE , etc”
They could have just had Pyat SAY it for the love of god. Dany needs this. This is what she obsesses over, what she uses to justify her persona of the destined queen (whether that is becomes true or not, and sometimes for worse, rather than for better, the role of prophecy is what causes her character to make sense).
stanvosftwQuote Reply
Dogmayor,
I hear you bro.
They are making Stannis look like a puppet of Melisandre. And Jaime…I don’t know, I’m starting to get bored of his sexual banter.
I only liked Tyrion’s scenes and Tywin’s horse. And the White Walkers, which were awesome. Daenerys and Jon had the weakest storylines in my opinion.
Valdred DethstormQuote Reply
Langkard,
I think we need to keep in mind that the first Reek hasn’t been killed yet in the show. I would expect them to have him appear in season 3 and kill him off in a different way from the books, because otherwise it won’t make sense why Ramsay is forcing Theon into becoming Reek.
HumMis1349Quote Reply
Wights are dead things brought back to life, how would you expect them to look? I’m just bummed we didn’t see any bear wights.
Darren MasonQuote Reply
OMFG! That ending was epic, hit the viewers just like last seasons. The cinematography and visuals/fx were seemless, and the white walkers were better than expected. That last walker on a white horse was armored in black w/helmet. and panning out to show the thousands of zombies left me speechless. I thought to myself…….Game of Thrones, Wrath of the Liche..err….White Walkers.
Everything was near perfect, 3rd best of all with a 9.5/10, not a 10 because…..
A) I wanted Doreah to live (she may yet, first rule of film fiction, if u don’t see the death, anything goes)
B) I wanted Luwin’s part to be changed, where he lived.
After the ending, it was HotU, I liked the changes and kept me guessing, especially Drogo, I cried I was so happy for them both. Did any of you notice when Dany walked out from the wall, her skin turned icy white, her hair more brittle white and her eyes took on a icy/blue color (prophetic?). Dracyres! my god, did you see what those babies can do at that size, geez those flames were terrifying, even for me, just thinking what they will do in a few years.
I loved how they looked at her, and would cuddle with mommy.
Based on what was showed, we are in for some surprises. No QH and Jon scheming, it looked like he sided with them (but maybe its part of his evolving character). Varys and Ros; Bran going to Castle Black with Rickon; Dagmer and the men taking Theon with them (unless instead of escaping, they were handing him over).
Sooo much awesome to process atm, time for another look see, and time for those to start screen capturing all the brilliant images. Warlock bbq, White Walker apocyalpse, Dany/Drogo, Sansa smiling (finally!).
Oh, one more thing, Theon’s speech was really choice, one of the best motivational ones before a fight I have heard (even Dag’s loved it).
tysnowQuote Reply
I agree with both of you guys, that “Dracarys” moment was sooooooooo unbelievably weak…as Stan already knows they made Dany’s character so weak this season as well, and she goes in there without a clue of what’s going on, and then suddenly just says a word after being chained up by Pyat Pree and all of her problems are solved. Plus it sort of detracts from how awesome the actual Dracarys moment is supposed to be with the Unsullied down the road. Am I mistaken or is that scene actually supposed to be the first time that she commands her dragons to breath fire? I thought that in the HOTU Drogon just did it…of course he’s with her the whole time and she’s not there to rescue her dragons in the first place, but that’s a different story.
Derek WolffQuote Reply
True. Having been in the military, I can vouch for that.
Arya’s story in the later books is something I worry might not translate well to the screen. So much of it is internal dialogue and narrative and slowly developing understanding with only short bits of action. The lessons she learns at the House of Black and White take multiple chapters to develop. It is such a slow progression that I wonder if it can be made into good TV. It is my favorite part of the books, but still I worry.
LangkardQuote Reply
I’m not a book purist. I’ve been defending most of the changes from early casting announcements through episode 19.
And I felt that this episode was garbage. Hot, stinking garbage. I’m embarassed I went out of my way to watch it. Winterfell was an incoherent mess, Rhaegar and prophecies that are central to the entire arc were traded for a Drogo fantasy that means nothing to the rest of the story, pacing was terrible, and white walkers were NOT SCARY.
It was Tywin’s horse more than anyone else who really set the tone tonight.
MelittoQuote Reply
I don’t think we’re going to see the first Reek. I think they’ve removed that entire bit entirely, as a byproduct of not having Ramsay pretend to be Reek while with Theon at Winterfell. They skipped it. Which means they can skip Reek and just have Theon be Reek. Non-canon but more likely, it seems to me, now that they have changed the Ramsay/Reek storyline already.
LangkardQuote Reply
Mimsy,
That was the one good point of Dany tonight!
For me though the House of the Undying was not hte moment she changed so much as seeing that Daxos had nothing but was seen as the most powerful man in Qarth. So here’s to hoping she doesn’t whine as much next season now!!
darquemodeQuote Reply
I took those as two separate statements. i.e.: 1) you could have picked that list of people instead of the 3 you chose to honour the red god.
2) So now come with me to Braavos and learn how to do it yourself.
MadmageQuote Reply
So…Dagmer and crew are just Iron Islanders who somehow heard about Robb’s offer and decided to take him up on it? No Dagmar=You-Know-Who? If that’s the case, wouldn’t torching Winterfell make Robb’s deal null and void?
Stark BannermanQuote Reply
I hate that they ruined Jon’s arc (my favorite part of COK).
I didn’t expect them to get HOD right so that’s whatever.
James MasonQuote Reply
Langkard,
I see where you might be concerned but for me John is a boyscout for the most part until having to Kill Qhorin and his relationship with Yigritte does make him question things. Giving his character questionable motives would not bother me in the adaptation as we will find out what his true intentions are. As I remember it in the books many of the nightswatch think he is a traitor anyways when he gets back to the wall in the book before all the events that lead to him becoming the commander. He is torn and obviously has to make a tough choice down the line. They could possibly reveal more of John and Qhorin’s conversation early next season as well so i guess we will have to just wait and see. Looking forward to it.
JasonQuote Reply
So many people complaining… again. Oh well.
Renaud Besse-BourdierQuote Reply
Welp. I’ve already seen people nearly come to blows arguing over whether it was ash or snow in the throne room, lol.
DerpstradamusQuote Reply
sums up my feelings exactly. I thought it appropriate that Tywin’s horse set the stage accordingly, and totally forgot that they didn’t even get that part completely right. The banter between Cersei and Joffrey was spot on about the new marriage to Margery, but I don’t understand why they couldn’t have just had Loras ask for his kingsguard membership, then have some guy come up and introduce himself as Garlan or even Mace Tyrell, you wouldn’t even need both of them at this point, and ask for Joff to marry Margery. Would have taken the same amount of screen time.
Derek WolffQuote Reply
For the most part the episode was very enjoyable.
But the Dany resolution was SO BAD. And the Jon resolution was SO BAD. And the Sam being ignored?? by an army of white walkers kind of beggars belief.
Wow. So pretty much Dany’s plot sucked all season and the way they wrap it up is… she and her little band of know-nothings somehow surprise and then kill the King of Qarth?? Her and what army? In what universe did it make sense that she could just waltz in and rob one of the thirteen of Qarth? Is that a city or a road show? I don’t even mind the house of the undying didn’t make sense either -it didn’t make sense in the book. But if they’re going to change everything they might as well have made some aspect of Dany’s book two adventures make sense. Total crap.
Jon snow? Looked like a total ass the whole season then kills Quorin in an illogical and strangely staged fight which even the viewer doesn’t understand the stakes.
And finally, Sam somehow is going to survive his march-by of the army of the undead? That’s just stupid directing. Show us an overhead shot of the undead army if you want to, no need to put your character incongruously in the middle of it.
As I said at the top, Tyrion + Theon + plus most of the rest was good TV as its been all season. But Dany and Jon snow they essentially ruined their storylines, and the payoff is… stupid endings which either don’t make any sense or completely fail to bring any real climax to their season.
I think I had to just not watch the last 15 minutes, the rest was a great episode.
BeanQuote Reply
What is the deal with Marg. Tyrell’s dresses? Is she auditioning for Littlefinger or what? I love me some Natalie Dormer(sp?) but wtf, seriously her breasts are a distraction & I haven’t noticed a single other non prostitute character dress in such slutty clothes.
Laura T.Quote Reply
Robb, you have no idea what you just got yourself into. That is one marriage that it not going to end well…. Valar Morghulis
ChrissyQuote Reply
Oooh, yes please! I thought some clues were there, just in a grander visual form. And walking from the throne room, to the Wall, to Drogo in that order is interesting; maybe you are right that she finds love at the Wall. The throne and Drogo were definitely temptations for her and she figured out it was a trick, so I didn’t mind the visions as much because I think they were somewhat prophetic. I just wish there was more suspense!
MegQuote Reply
Yellow Dog,
That’s just in case 12-21-12 is prophetic.
tysnowQuote Reply
Jason,
I agree. I don’t think of it as a big deal. I just worry how non-readers will react to things. I have trouble wrapping my mind around how they react to some of the scenes. I can imagine that the writers are just as uncertain about such reactions. How can those of us who have read the books, which includes Dan and Dave, really predict the reactions of those who haven’t read the books? It’s a bit of a throw of the dice. It’s like wondering what colors a colorblind person is actually seeing.
It’s still the best show on TV, has had some of the best scenes I’ve ever watched on TV and has some of the best acting I’ve seen on TV. We’re lucky to have the quality we have. I’m quite happy with it, even if I do wish they’d make Ed more Dolorous.
LangkardQuote Reply
Personally I would have added the Halfhand’s voice in the background, after Jon kills him, instructing him to spy for them and never forget who he is.
And why would Robb and Talisa marry in the Light of the seven. Neither one of them worships the seven!
Though it was beautifully done and executed… those are not the visions we were hoping for!!! HOTU semi fail
JuanQuote Reply
I’m a TV viewer only. I picked up right away that Qhorin wanted Jon to kill him.
There were 2 things as a TV viewer I didn’t get at all:
1. Who burned Winterfell?
2. How did Stannis get out of Kings Landing?
FarsidexxQuote Reply
Dogmayor,
The last WW in the shot was donned in black armor, even a helmet. He was the one on a white horse.
tysnowQuote Reply
This series has the worst fans
Augie HattonQuote Reply
I attribute a lot of the purist angered responses to the general frustration this season is over. It’s okay, soon you’ll have the Hobbit movie to talk about. Group hug!
DennisQuote Reply
Derpstradamus,
Actually it was definitely snow, there were icicles on the pillars. The rerun just showed it.
DerpstradamusQuote Reply
1. Not revealed for story purposes. I can spoil it if you want.
2. He was dragged off by his own soldiers at the end of Blackwater
LordStarkingtonQuote Reply
Laura T.Quote Reply
I have a feeling a lot of book readers are going to be turned off the show b/c of this ep. But they will probably tune in next year just to complain on the internet.
Also, I think a lot of non-readers are going to be MORE infatuated with the show now, and will tell their friends and more people will watch next year.
Ultimately a Win-Win
winterfellQuote Reply
Me, too! I thought, “why are they marrying in a Sept/Seven ceremony?” And, I thought that Qhorin told Jon, “we know who you are on the wall”…guess I was wrong on that one. It would have made up for HOTU visions being missing.
GatorfischQuote Reply
There were a lot of parts I liked, but ultimately I was pretty disappointed by this episode.
I actually liked how they handled Winterfell – I felt like it replicates the confusion, of sorts, from the books pretty well given the changes made to the overall storyline. I really liked the two scenes with Sansa and Arya (and loved that Arya said she wants to help her sister too!). The scenes with Tyrion were fantastic. And I actually liked the Varys/Ros scene, though I sure hope he’s not sending her after Dany or something like that.
On the other hand, while Stephen Dillane acted the shit out of the Stannis/Mel scene, I agree with those who think him choking her was OOC. I liked the scene other than that, more or less, and it is a scene that is implied based on Stannis’s dialogue in ASOS. (Surprised they kept Davos’s life/death a cliffhanger between seasons, especially given what Liam Cunningham said in interviews early on).
House of the Undying was ultimately pretty underwhelming. I don’t mind losing Rhaegar / RW foreshadowing, and I actually like the addition of Drogo and Rhaego, but I would have liked the “Threes” prophecy, and a mention (in some way) of PTWP.
And I hate how they handled Jon and Qhorin. I agree that the way it goes down in the books would have ultimately made for better, more dramatic television.
I sort of wish they’d ended the last scene right after the third horn blast.
JQuote Reply
My husband, a non book reader, had the same question about Stannis. Actually, it was more like where the fuck is Stannis & how did he get there. Sometimes the little details are important.
Laura T.Quote Reply
Dennis,
Lol……very true! I remember back when we were all just hoping this series would get made, wouldn’t be crap and would last for more than one season. How time flies.
JasonQuote Reply
I know right?!? Especially because for the last three episodes we have been led to believe that Dany quite literally has only two followers left (Jorah and… um cute bloodrider #2). Jorah heavily implies that she has no khalasaar left when he suggests that they cut and run. …And then suddenly she has like her entire Khalasaar back and has somehow managed to walk unopposed into Xaro’s bedroom?
I don’t understand. They need to hire more and better writers for S3/4 to avoid things like this this the other strange and bad decisions which happened in S2. Unfortunately ti’s probably too late by this point. The fact that they are already casting makes it likely that they already have a pretty detailed outline of what’s going to happen (Daario’s casting means changes are coming… please please give us Missandei, too please!)
stanvosftwQuote Reply
I thought the entire episode was incredible. I really loved the final scene, really epic. The CGI was great, the Zombie Horse & Other were super cool. I thought the HOTU was awesome. I think that one of the problems with the prophecies is that they would be a bit too heavy-handed and obvious in a visual form. You really don’t want to give away the biggest twist of the entire series. I also thought it was neat to see Dany take action at the end.
There are a few minor things (Robb and Talissa marrying under the seven instead of the northern tree, others that I can’t think of now) that made me shake my head, but those are really minor and I can see why the tv show did that to keep confusion down.
I personally thought Qhorin and Jon was done fine, you can see Jon’s face at the end that he was torn up by his killing of Qhorin. They could have used some changes to that storyline to make it more clear, but Qhorin did talk to Jon ahead of time about being a spy. So it’s not like it was totally ignored.
So many other good scenes! Jaime and Brienne was great, so was Arya and Jaqen. All the CGI was really well done.
I am interested to see where they take Theon being betrayed by his men. Is Dagmar playing the long con? Is Dagmar=Reek? Who burned Winterfell? It’s neat that even as a book reader I have questions going into next year.
don draperQuote Reply
Should’ve been pretty clear from the map table that they were back in the room in Dragonstone where they’d created little Shadow Baby.
Since so many non-readers seem to be confused they must not’ve done a good job conveying that, yes, Stannis escaped, and those were his men pulling him away from the battle at the end of last episode.
Steven SwansonQuote Reply
Biggest beef of the season….when are we going to find out the Stark children are wargs & where the FUCK is Ghost?
Laura T.Quote Reply
Melitto,
For the book series yes, but where have they even mentioned these in the show. The GoT tv series is an alternate reality ASoIaF, they have removed most of these items because, they are too costly, add more complexity, more subplots=more sets/actors, and so forth.
Besides, HBO has such a critical money machine, they are saving the past for a 10 part mini-series to be shown between seasons 7 and 8.
tysnowQuote Reply
I guess another thing that really bugged me is the speculation by D&D that they did in this episode. I feel like they shouldn’t show the speculation on things to come since no one besides GRRM and maybe Parris really knows how things will turn out. I felt like they started to change things that didn’t need to be changed, they didn’t even have to do much of anything to keep them the way they were. We know that the series is ASO ice and fire and it’s pretty evident that the fire means the dragons and the ice would be the White Walkers…problem is we still have no evidence of Dany being anywhere close to the Wall at the end of ADwD. Given the fact that we know ASoS is being broken up into two seasons on HBO, and that since AFfC and ADwD were super long as well, it’s easy to see that both of those books could become two seasons apiece, or combined as Martin does, with both books combining to form two more seasons. Speculation of course, but that means that we would be at the end of season 6 with Dany still across the narrow sea, and not much happening to the dragons or white walkers. Anyone really believe these amazing actors are gonna be around for 10 seasons to complete TWoW and ADoS?
I understand that they’ll have to speed things up for the tv show, but who’s to say that GRRM will even be done with ADoS by the time it’s due to air on HBO? And quite honestly, I’d much rather have the book than the show at that point. I just don’t think D&D should detract non-readers away from things actually important to the storyline if they’re not going to make their new version pay off down the road, and it’s hard to see how they’re going to be able to do that.
Derek WolffQuote Reply
Laura T.,
My wife had the same reaction when Littlefinger was teleporting all over Westeros. You have to assume some time has passed and at the end of Blackwater Stannis was pulled away by his soldiers.
JasonQuote Reply
Justice @ sword point, Justice @ the turn of a key… Your take was accurate & succinct . Though I wonder if 65 minutes enough time for all those threads to be woven into something comprehensible for non-readers ?
Dee McDowellQuote Reply
My guess is that “Reek” doesn’t exist (yet), and that Dagmer was exactly what he appeared to be, a savvy Ironborn who decided to give Theon up to the northerners in exchange for freedom just like Robb had talked about a couple episodes ago.
Whether or not the Dreadforters actually let them live remains to be seen.
Steven SwansonQuote Reply
They’ve said in interviews that GRRM has clued them in to how things will end, and one could probably assume that they didn’t put anything in the HOTU scene that didn’t somehow fit with that.
It was all pretty vague anyway, and I took it as more symbolic than actual.
Steven SwansonQuote Reply
I don’t think you’re supposed to know from that episode what happened. You’ll find out what happened with Theon and that whole storyline eventually.
At the end of the last episode (“Blackwater”), as he yells out “Stand and fight, damn you!” to the retreating Baratheon troops, you see a couple of his men grab him from behind and begin to pull him back. He retreated along with the rest of his army. This is somewhat questionable, as Stannis was actually inside the city walls and would have had to climb down the ladders onto the narrow beach that was controlled by Tywin’s army at that time. I suppose in the chaos of battle it would have been possible for him to slip away. But that’s all the explanation we’re going to get.
It wasn’t an issue in the books, because Stannis commands from the rear and does not participate personally in any of the fighting.
maledictaQuote Reply
stanvosftw,
Eggxactly. And I don’t count myself among the supposed “purists” who give a darn about what details are or aren’t from the books. The Qarth stuff MAD ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. It hurts my head. Total waste of screen time.
I had real hopes for them too. Initially, you saw Dany bargaining for a ship, trying to negotiate or plead from a place of weakness, etc… They could’ve built some character and had a modest little plot line in Qarth. Instead they had to somehow turn her into a badass out of nowhere who just takes what she wants whenever she wants (but she sill has to buy a ship… ?). Painfully bad TV. All they needed to do was have her learn something about herself and then go get on a ship. Really dissapointing runaround.
BeanQuote Reply
And also…I suppose Bronn’s not getting a promotion? No Ser Bronn of the Blackwater? He just got dumped from the Gold cloaks.
Valdred DethstormQuote Reply
Langkard,
I’m kind of worried about Arya’s later story arc too, but it could be really cool as well. Maybe they’ll do something like a lesson an episode, or move up when she starts having her first official kills.
KelsQuote Reply
They haven’t said it outright but they’ve hinted strongly at it with Bran and a little bit with Robb as well (when Grey Wind attacked the Lannister guards). I imagine they’ll kick that up a notch as the story proceeds.
And where Ghost is, your guess is as good as mine.
Steven SwansonQuote Reply
Hassan Madkour,
The show should be called Game of the Walking Dead now…heh.
Loved seeing Drogo again. His death was so sad in Season 1. This time, I felt sad for Tyrion. Last week we cheered for Tywin, but this week, he’s a jerk for humiliating Tyrion.
tlsmith63Quote Reply
It seems pretty likely to me that what happened/will happen is similar to the books, and teh same as what happens in aDwD when Theon assists in the Ironborn surrender of that one castle. AKA, Ramsey kills everyone, then lies, saying that they resisted/it was self-defense.
Also I don’t understand all the people saying nonbook raqders will be confused about who’s taking Winterfell. They will all assume it’s Roose “boy” – this was even shown in the recap of last episode to remind everyone: Robb sent Roose’s “boy” to pardon the Ironborn and capture Theon.
stanvosftwQuote Reply
That’s a minor complaint I have with the costume designs. Readers of the books can figure out which soldiers go with which main characters, although it sometimes takes some effort on our part. Non-readers can be entirely confused by the minimalist costume designs. At times it is almost impossible to tell who is a gold cloak and who is a Lannister man-at-arms and so on. Last week, some of the bigger battle scenes were a complete wash when it came to figuring out who was who. Small wonder that some people thought Stannis was dragged away by someone other than his own soldiers. Likewise it seemed that many people thought the charging soldiers who elicited Tyrion’s “oh, fuck me” reaction were actually Tywin’s troops, rather than Stannis’ troops as the really were. The only soldiers with a definitive look are the Iron Islanders. It’s been a small problem for two seasons now.
Edit: And yes, before someone points it out, battles are naturally confusing and chaotic. And that is exactly the reason why they figured out centuries ago that making your soldiers easily identifiable is a must on the battlefield. It’s why Byzantine emperor Leo VI in his military treatise, Tactica, stressed the importance of each unit type having its own distinct colors on uniforms and shields. It’s why medieval soldiers wore their lords’ colors and heraldry. It’s the reason for heraldry in the first place.
LangkardQuote Reply
My recap and reactions to tonight’s finale are now up.
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
By the way, while I was dissapointed in the HOTU I think some of the blame goes on GRRM here, I think its a pretty tough pickle to put the writers in the put in some prophecies that mostly haven’t occurred yet with 2 books to go. The writers know they are probably going to be in a situation where stuff has to get cut, so putting in the prophecies now kind of binds them in a way they would rather not. Would I want them to take the chance sure, but they are in a bind.
House SnowQuote Reply
I just want to correct you.. Tywin is hand and he is not Joffery’s father, as you said he was.
“Quick summary this week, as I really want to get to my thoughts. Starting off in King’s Landing, where Joffrey hands out awards for the successful battle. His father becomes hand, Littlefinger becomes Lord of Harrenhal and Margaery becomes his new betrothed.”
CaitlinQuote Reply
Shock MeQuote Reply
I know!! Me too. I actually really loved her scenes in Episode 5 (the first Qarth episode). Great drama there, great character interactions, excellent writing and plotting. From there, it began to go on a slow but steepining downward slide. Culminating in this complete hamhanded nonsense. Ugh.
I think I will pretend that dany was in only three scenes this season:
1) The crazy Qarth garden party (omg! so awesome!)
2) The scene where accidentally Jorah say he luuurvs her and she’s like shiiiit and then they decide to get a ship.
3) The three visions scenes in HOTU (but not the complete lack of setup and not the embarrassing fire and nonsensical Xaro scene after thanks very much).
stanvosftwQuote Reply
After the second watching…
Still love it!
The only thing that bothered me that i didn’t like was D&D’s little scene with Varys and Ros… The fact D&D are going out of their way to try to justify Ros’s existence by making her one of Varys “important spies” is pretty annoying.
Oh well, looks like a lot more Ros for season 3… Oh boy!
But seriously, besides that everything was really awesome…
Can’t wait for season 3.
Until then all the fun casting news is going to hold me through!!!
ArthurQuote Reply
Completely mediocre. For me the least compelling episode of the series for sure.
death to lannistersQuote Reply
OH GODS MAESTER LUWIN NO IT HURTS SO MUCH I KNEW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN BUT IT HURTS. NED, PLEASE, MAKE IT STOP
MichelleQuote Reply
I fully expect that after a few more viewings I’ll grow to love this finale. But watching with my wife (a non-book reader who explicitly forbids me from giving her any info from the books), we were both mostly disappointed by this finale (only Mad Men saved our night). All season long we’d felt as if the story had been rushed, the finale only increased this.
There was a lot that was good. Sansa’s scene, Tyrion and Shae, Brienne & Jaime, Arya and Jaqen. HOTU was well done, interesting inclusion of a burned down KL and seeing Khal Drogo again with their baby was nice. But I’m not too happy about “Dracarys” being overused this season, to me at least it actually cheapens the coolness of the scene where Dany frees the unsullied Also did not like at all how Doreah just so easily betrayed Dany like that. It leaves her without any trusted female companions and despite Doreah’s background it all seemed very rushed and very out of character.
Also, I really feel like Robb’s wedding was handled poorly. in the books it seems like he feels a sense of duty, here it just seems like he’s a spoiled bot hurt by his mother and forgetful of his duties. It all but secures that the RW will be in season 3 and I have to admit that I’m not at all troubled by TV Robb dying the way it hurt to have Robb die in the books, it almost seems like he’s asking for it now.
The “three blasts” scene was handled well, but instead of GOT influencing other shows, it really felt like Walking Dead had stepped onto the GOT set.
I’m also surprised that we didn’t see Davos at all in this finale. the scene between Stannis and Mel was cool, but why introduce Sallador Saan without him picking up Davos at the end. With all the time devoted to Tyrion and KL in this episode, I really don’t understand why they couldn’t have given us 45 seconds of Davos being picked up.
High expectations are often difficult to match, but GOT has exceeded all expectations before tonight. I hope for better out of Season 3, and I really hope D&D don’t feel quite as rushed as it clearly seems they felt this season.
MichaelQuote Reply
maester luwin and the kids teared me up. so did shae and tyrion. i really like how they changed Shae from book Shae. the show Shae loves Tyrion, which leads me to believe that Tywin hangs Shae. then Tyrion finishes him off.
robb17Quote Reply
So much this!!! ^^^ I hate it when a dramatic/serious show puts a character in an impossible situation and we’re just supposed to believe they made it. I didn’t like it in the pilot with Will, I don’t like it now.
And this! Even leaving out Rhaegar and the TPWWP, Dany really could have used her “3′s” prophecies. Pyat Pree could have just spoken a little longer with a segue of “And now you will never fulfill your destiny…” Then a different Pyat says “3 betrayals” etc. I assume she’ll just go the Viserys-I’m-Entitled route that she’s been spouting so far anyway. I do like what we saw, it was beautifully done, but it just wasn’t enough. Maybe nothing would have been, I don’t know.
I really enjoyed the rest of the episode. Theon’s even more pathetic now. I cried for Luwin. I wish Catelyn had reacted more strongly to Robb’s decision, but I’m assuming the decision to do the ceremony of the Seven had to do with the fact that they couldn’t find anyone other than a septon. I’m interested to see how this change in the time line affects his character’s reaction to the Bran and Rickon news.
Going to watch the episode again tomorrow. The second time around I’m usually more able to enjoy it, whereas the first viewing I always notice the differences.
MiraxQuote Reply
I’m surprised no one brought this up yet – maybe its something I simply don’t remember from the HoU sequence of visions in the book… But… That first vision of the iron throne room in shambles with snow falling on it… Isn’t that a brand new prophecy that wasn’t given to us before?? The iron throne in ruins during the dead of winter couldn’t possibly happen until the last 2 books due to geography and climate… Winter hasn’t reached kings landing that heavily yet.
Could it be that the red keep gets completely leveled by dragons or some other catastrophe (like the Others) and winds up abandoned in the dead of winter, while other battles rage on elsewhere? When else would we see that type of extreme weather in Kings Landing except for likely the last 2 books? And from what I understand the red keep has never been leveled to that degree.
(tWoW spoiler or aDoS spoiler perhaps? Just for the book fans who wanted more out of the HoU prophecies… Maybe they threw us a bone after all)
That’s what it seemed like to me anyway, and it was very exciting if that’s the case! Unless I missed something.
Also – I thought the Others looked badass. With their pure ice swords and barely held together zombie army? Awesome!!
The fire shooting perfectly straight under her arm was corny but…. Beyond that… awesome ep!
Was totally wrong about Barristan Selmy coming along but…. the ep passed my expectations!
Can’t believe Dagmer stabbed Luwin. Bastard.
Lord CastamereQuote Reply
Mindblown. What an episode. Snow falling in the Throne Room??? Anyone???
TrappingsofpowerQuote Reply
Michael,
KL wasn’t burned down. Ruined, but not burned down. If you watch the scene again you can see there are no burn marks and there are icicles hanging off of the metal fixtures around the pillars. You can also see snow melting on Dany’s hand when she reaches towards the throne.
DerpstradamusQuote Reply
Sorry for posting thse a little late, I was watching the NBA Game…
This week’s Episode Extras:
http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/06/game-of-thrones-episode-210-valar.html
darquemodeQuote Reply
I think by now the book purists have discovered that this series is not the exact same as the books, and wont be. Try not to fret or get too worked up over changes… just sit back and enjoy, because its a great show.
defiant117xQuote Reply
How bout that ending? Holy shit!
Great episode. My only concern was the Ramsay Question, but the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a surprise in store for non-book readers for next season, or the season after that, when they finally learn of Theon’s fate. If you thought Robb Stark was cool, just wait until you meet Theon’s new friend. He’s a real swell guy!
The House of the Undying was really well done, IMO. I was a little worried about how the visions would play out on screen, but they nailed it with Drogo (and yes, they left out a lot of stuff from the book, but I expected it, so I didn’t concern me too much).
I’m sure people will be pissed off about the lack of Ghost in the Halfhand fight, but I thought the scene was pretty intense regardless.
And also, I’ve got to say, the actress who plays Margaery is super hot. I never saw The Tudors, so I had no idea (I’d always been meaning to watch it, because I’m really into history and all, but I don’t have Showtime, and have never gotten around to getting it on DVD, etc., etc.,). She’s perfect for the role, and already seems to have good chemistry with Jack Gleeson, so I’m looking forward to seeing all that drama play out.
And lastly, that Zarozan Ducksauce thing was quite a twist, wasn’t it? Wow. Dany’s one hard ass chick. Doreah should’ve known; you betray the Khaleesi, you get entombed alive.
5 out of 5 from me. Great finale.
Varamyr FourskinsQuote Reply
Idk, I think having it play out like it did with Dany makes a pretty clear point. She is a bratty, naive and self-entitled brat basically that has some innate magical ability. Fact is the reason it happened like it did with her is because she is only powerful with her dragons. Without them she is, in essence, powerless. Thats why all of a sudden when she has her dragons she can kick ass and take over: because its the dragons doing everything…. shes just their mother that gets to kick back and watch her kids destroy everything on her command and say “ahhhh thats my boys”.
Dio XtozcanoxQuote Reply
Robb Stark in the Books: Too Honorable for his own good (like his own father), dooms his chances.
Robb Stark in the Show: Too Stupid for his own good.
Qhorin Halfhand in the Books: Badass.
Qhorin Halfhand in the Show: Asshole, who gets Jon in the situation in the first place.
Littlefinger in the books: Master of Subtlety, Chessmaster, etc.
Littlefinger in the show: Unsubtle, Telling his intentions in plain view/hearing of characters who have opposing interests.
Don’t get me wrong, the show works. But god, some characters go from good to idiots.
garik16Quote Reply
As much as I loved Blackwater, this was even better. It’s the best episode of everything I’ve seen on TV, bar probably the 4th season finale of Breaking Bad. This is how you do a great art without throwing 250 million $. It was art, plain and simple. Every actor there should get an Emmy. I honestly can’t name anyone who wasn’t perfect in this episode. The writing was superb and Alan Taylor proved that he is the best director this show can possibly get. Too bad he will be busy with Thor 2 next year.
I’ve read the books 3 times and will probably read them again, but I don’t care about the changes. D&D have clearly shown that they do care for the big picture and that it will remain the same. The details in between can change as much as they like.
Given how the third book is my favorite, for me the next two seasons will be the best TV ever created.
Damn, it was emotional. I should watch it again.
Alex DubrovskyQuote Reply
Yeah. I had very low expectations for the house of the undying “escape” so I wasn’t too dissapointed. But they could’ve made that better so much more easily.
For example, have Dany futiley strike out with her torch at a host of duplicate Pree’s (who are hanging around because they’re villians and mocking her). She keeps missing because they’re not real, or just dissapear.
Then show the dragons see she’s struggling, turn their heads in unison, and blow fire at the “real” copy of Pree, killing him.
Still a little hamhanded, but at least shows some degree of surprise/twist. The dialogue at least was ok in that final Pree scene, they could’ve kept the same dialogue but had that more interesting “fight” scene and resolution.
BeanQuote Reply
I did like that part, and if KL gets fucked by the Others as that scene would seem to suggest it would be a really fitting end to Martin’s series. Kind of insanely bleak/depressing to have to agree that that’s an easy possibility with what we know about GRRM, that everyone could die and it would make total sense. Could you imagine that with any other series?
Also, that would suggest a really hard, true notion about real life as well, one that the characters in ASOIAF bring up all the time as well; everyone dies, it’s just a matter of how and when.
Totally fucking bleak, but it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if that was the outcome.
Derek WolffQuote Reply
Wow. There were some mind-blowing things in this episode, but nothing compared to reading these post-show comments.
Steven SwansonQuote Reply
Exactly! Posted my thoughts ab that right above your post. What was your take on it?
Lord CastamereQuote Reply
I’m guessing that the dragons can now incinerate people from 30ft so that explains danys new power
Adam RobertsQuote Reply
To be honest, as much as they butchered Dany’s story in Qarth (by the way, did I call it when I said that it will all end with the dragons burning Pyat Pree or what ;P), it made TOTAL sense for her to just plunder Ducksauce’s palace. She’s nothing more than a theiving warlord and I’m kind of glad they are keeping that aspect of the character.
The Other was… badass, actually. I like this design much better than the brownish blur from Season 1. I have the feeling that non-book fans will have no idea what this is, though.
Littlefinger stole yet another of the Hound’s scenes with Sansa XD It’s almost funny.
Tyrion’s scene with Shae was beautiful, though I’m not sure where are they going with this. Considering what will happen to them what is this show of seemingly sincere devotion from her supposed to mean now?
So Jeyne Westerling isn’t Jeyne Westerling after all! I love how some fans wondered wether this whole “Talisa from Volantis” thing isn’t just a ruse. I guess it’s not XD The overall result will be the same, so no big deal. The only thing they really lose with this change is the subtle hint how some of the Westerlings (Jeyne’s mother, IIRC) have been in Tywin’s pocket and jumped at the opportunity to backstab Robb. But it’s not a big deal. Little strange how they made him discuss this with Catelyn and didn’t mention his grief for Bran and Rickon’s deaths, but oh well.
Jon is a joke this season. His endless blunders with Ygritte were more comical than dramatic.
Theon’s story was good up until the end. I don’t mind the supposed mystery of who burned down Winterfell (it’s actually cool, and kind of canon-friendly if you consider we see the thing not from Theon’s POV as it was in the book but by Bran and Rickon’s who were pretty clueless), but I’m not sure I like the idea of the Ironmen betraying him.
Jaqen’s big revelation was lackluster, sorry.
Stannis chocking Melisandre struck me as very much out of character. He’s awkward and stiff around women, but he’s not one to abuse them, even out of spite and anger; and Melisandre is the only woman he trusts and feels kind of comfortable with. And they could have shown Davos surviving. I know that in the books we learned that in ASOS, but here it would have been better to show it, I think.
Overall, a good finale and an adequate season. Season 1 was better, though. I hope they will pick up the dropped balls in Season 3. My biggest hope is that they turn back and become as faithful to the books as they were in the beginning of this whole merry adventure, but the chances are rather slim.
ETA:
Forgot a few things!
I’m not sure I like Brienne as being so cold-blooded. I don’t think we really needed that fight scene with the northeners.
And Ros is becoming even more important! Oh, what joy. First she was simply Tyrion’s whore for the afternoon, then she became the most promminent whore in Wintertown, then she went to King’s Landing where she immediately found her way into the bed of Pycelle, then she became the manager of Littlefinger’s brothel and now she’s apparently among Varys’ little birds. What’s next, a seat in the Small Council?
RinsoQuote Reply
garik16,
Perfect depiction of how the characters are changed in the series. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still great and probably the best show on tv, but you’re right, it’s ridiculous and comical with how open they’ve made some characters about their true intent. I almost thought they were going to make Littlefinger tell Sansa he was going to kill a certain someone sometime soon during the episode tonight, when he says that he’ll help take her home.
Also, you or anyone who’s noticed the obv character changes/nonsensical natures of some scenes should check out this youtube channel for Seanzoz, who does these absolutely hilarious parodies of every GoT ep, and has read the books.
http://www.youtube.com/user/seanzoz
Derek WolffQuote Reply
Wow…you just blew my mind! That TOTALLY MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!!!! Can you tell I love that theory?
GatorfischQuote Reply
HOTU was supremely disappointing, where are the undying ones?
Theon getting knocked out was lame and Witnerfell burning made no sense in the show context, I wouldn’t be surprised if non-readers are confused as to why that happened.
Robb stuff sucked but I gave up on that “love story” plotline a long time ago, so it didn’t bother me as much.
One complaint about the White Walker that Sam saw was that it wasn’t wearing the ice-like armor.
Darren MasonQuote Reply
WiC: the Halfhand was my only true disappointment this season. However, I thought that it didn’t make any sense but my non-reader girlfriend immediately understood why he was doing that, so… at least it can be understood, so that’s good ;-)
Renaud Besse-BourdierQuote Reply
Derek Wolff,
Would be bleak indeed for an ending. As much as I don’t want to believe Martin would do that to us, just because of the name of the last book he has planned… Murder by the Others was the prologue chapter to the entire series… And they’re been rarely revisited. Martin did says we’d see much more of them next book…
Lord CastamereQuote Reply
As far as Will goes, I just assumed they were sending a message, and left him alive to send it (didn’t work, but hey…).
And Sam? Who knows, but I’m reminded of the scene in Saving Private Ryan when the dorky American soldier has a panic attack and freezes during the battle, and the German soldier just looks at him and walks past as if he isn’t there, because he obviously isn’t a threat.
Although it might be like my theory with Will, and the White Walker wants to leave one person alive, so just scares the shit out of Sam and keeps going.
I know the voice was completely different than the ice cracking, but thought it was a nice touch to have the White Walkers’ war cry ending the season sounding very similar to the dragons’ cries last season.
Steven SwansonQuote Reply
MeekyReekyRamasy,
Totally agree. The white walkers looked like a bad left over costume from clash of the titans. I’m still a fan, but I think they dropped the ball on this season. They are trying too hard to go to big with not enough time or money.
BRING BACK THE SUBTLETIES OF SEASON 1
S moneyQuote Reply
PLAY WITH HER ASS!
LordDavos12Quote Reply
I loved it!!
The ending left me speechless! I dropped my drink when” I saw what I saw”….mind blowing!
I do have to stand up and clap for a fantastic season! acting, writing, sets, costume, score.
If they don’t win a emmy and madmen wins again, I’m going to be very upset!
christmas is comingQuote Reply
Lord Castamere,
Yep, def agree there given the name for TWoW. And yeah, maybe he’ll just end it by having Dany and her dragons finally land in Westeros in ADoS, burn off all of the Others who have ravaged the entire continent by that point, then have Dany just walk out beyond the wall after realizing no one is alive in all of the seven kingdoms any more. Would still be totally bleak, lol. But I guess her and whoever becomes the other two heads of the dragon hook up and repopulate Westeros haha
Derek WolffQuote Reply
Who burnt down winter fell. I’m a tv viewer and completely confused since there 20 guys in there and 500 men outside trying to kill them for streaks….. I’m confused
ALexKdizQuote Reply
Adam Roberts,
Was there a ruler there I didnt see? Is there a known statistic on average baby dragon fireshooting distance? Fantasy = Suspension of Disbelief. People come on now lol must we really sit here and call certain things unrealistic. Everything is unrealistic thats why its fantasy. We have warlocks splitting into 10 different bodies.. people changing faces.. shadow babies being born and then the mothers body becoming skinny again the second the birth is complete (a feat Im sure most real life moms wish they could experience).. and we are gonna sit here and say heyyy wait a second those dragons are shooting fire at someone so unrealistically far away!!
This isnt like the movie Eurotrip where the main guy goes to Berlin to meet this sexy foreign exchange student because she blocked his email address so he couldnt email her anymore. All he had to do was make another email address and email her there but noooo he tries once then departs for Europe. Thats something thats silliness and done because… it is a movie. This is a tv show. Suspend your disbelief.
Dio XtozcanoxQuote Reply
I think these last 2 episodes have been my favorites of the series.
From ChaosQuote Reply
That’s a good point – I definitely appreciate it more from that perspective. At first the lack of ice crackling pissed me off. But the way the chose illustrates their connection as servants of opposing Gods…
Lord CastamereQuote Reply
Derpstradamus,
I’ll take another look when I rewatch the finale, but you’d think if the red keep has been through at least a couple hundred years, it’s been through a few winters. If Dragons didn’t burn down the roof, what did? It’s clearly winter in the scene, so it’s not surprising there are icicles, there’s no roof!
Since all we get at the HOTU is the KL scene and Dhrogo in the tent with the baby, that would lead me to believe that we’re seeing a potential future. If Dany and her Dragons go to KL, they’re very likely to burn it all down. As much as she may want the Iron Throne, she’s got Dragons, when they are grown she can put her throne wherever she wants it.
MichaelQuote Reply
Mark Twain wrote, “In matters of opinion our adversaries are insane.”
I loved the entire episode, and for those who disagree…
tdraicerQuote Reply
Onion,
I was so thinking the same thing…”Eddie.” Cover of “Killers.”
Fran FolicQuote Reply
And btw I agree in understanding why the White Walker just walked right past Sam. He is weak and pitiful in a lot of ways. He was no threat to them or their cause to attack the wall. And now we have people complaining about how the White Walker language sounded lol. Does somebody here speak WhiteWalker to tell us if their dialogue we saw tonight is correct? Its a made up language, like make believe language. There is no proper/actual way to do it on screen.
Dio XtozcanoxQuote Reply
Josh – seems like your comment about not liking Robb getting married by the Seven didn’t survive the “Quote” button, but this was in response to that comment.
The second time watching this woman paid attention to this scene especially, did you notice they were in a godswood by a weirwood tree? So, perhaps this was the compromise solution to honor both old gods and new. Remember, Catelyn worshipped the Seven so Robb probably learned about both growing up. It worked OK, there was really no time in the series to go specifically into what the Stark children really believed, if anything.
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Do David and Dan know information about future storylines from GRRM? If so, that whole you must go backward to go forward etc etc……
She went from the Iron Throne to North of the Wall to the khalasar (Dothraki Sea/red Waste?)
Does this perhaps mean in future books she will first arrive in Westeros North of the wall and then eventually end up on the throne? The showrunners know in the book HOTU was foreshadowing… are they telling us readers something o.o?
TimQuote Reply
Loved the season finale. Can’t wait for more Jon/Ygritte next year… “You know nothing, Jon Snow.” Ygritte is an absolute smokeshow. I’m not looking forward to their “breakup.” I’m predicting some tears
ducksauceQuote Reply
The reeds are confirmed for season 3.
franklin,
Eli FriedmanQuote Reply
Wow. And so ends another season…
I absolutely loved everything in this episode except for the scene with Qhorin. In the books I feel like this was a huge turning point for Jon. He was taking on this momentous task of infiltrating the wildlings and it all started with killing someone he looked up to as a hero. I don’t think that came off in this episode at all… as a matter of fact, I’m guessing most non book readers will be a little confused of Jon’s intentions.
Dany was (finally) amazing this episode. My only frustration here was that she’s been portrayed as whiny little princess all season and in this last episode she all of a sudden redeems herself as a badass. I would have liked her in this season as a whole if they had portrayed her as the more level headed (if naive) leader that deserved to be Queen. Other than that, I had no issues with the changes to HOTU.
Everything else… bloody fantastic.
Raven
RavenQuote Reply
near perfect episode but I would have done 1 thing differently.
In season 8 they telegraphed what John and the Halfand where going to do so when John killed the Halfhand it wasn’t as big as a surprise as it could of been.
I’m not a big fan of dying characters coming back but I’ll let it stand for Mr. Momoa since it just made sense.
The others looked spot on. Overall this season was better than the last one. I hope in next season they continue to focus on making a great show rather than just follow the books.
ghostQuote Reply
little things that made this episode worthwhile:
“Thought he’d never shut up”/ “It was a good speech. Didn’t want to interrupt him”
Varys turning Ros (very interesting!)
Pycell tossing a coin to Tyrion (ouch)
Theon’s “confession”
Snow on the throne and Dany at the Wall
Dany disappearing around the curve
The khalisar looting Quarth (yeah, it was illogical because Jorah said they were killed, but I still loved how they got to return to their Dothraki nature and pillage again).
the dragon babies and their adorable little chains
Brienne’s kills and Jaime’ LIKE WHOA reaction
Luwin getting speared – I yelled “NOOOOOO”
Shae. Loved her lines to Tyrion – fuck this stupid war, indeed.
the white walker dude and his zombie horse – looked amazing!
Things that didn’t work for me:
The throne room scene. You would think that such bombastic political theater like that would act and write itself. Instead I thought it was awkward.
Agree with everything WiC said about Jon/Qhorin. The worst storyline of the Season, when it didn’t have to be.
Robb being EXTRA douchy to Cat, and marrying out of spite (?). I actually WELCOME the RW now and root for Roose. How the hell did it come to this?
Dany and Drogo – it was a nice scene but I can’t explain why I yawned through it. I think their “eternal love” is just lame.
Tyrion’s lines to Shae about staying in KL – his reason for staying is he likes his job (that he just got fired from)? I thought that was kinda weak.
Ygritte wacking Jon with his own sword – like he needed additional humiliations.
Stannis choking Mel – this actually pissed me off. I understand that he’s mad but JESUS.
MegQuote Reply
zombies were around before the Walking Dead, guys…
Really really good finale. Could have spent a little more time developing the Jon and Qhorin relationship. Maybe they could’ve had a scene earlier in the episode where the wildings stop to rest so him and Jon have time to talk. Would’ve made the fight scene a bit more powerful than relying on another quick scene’s worth of dialogue from two weeks ago.
And I too was sad by the lack of TPWWP prophecy, but the icy and destroyed throne room was a good enough replacement. Could be interpreted in a few ways, which is cool.
Also thought for sure they would’ve started the Ser Dontos and Sansa plotline tonight, but instead they made Littlefinger really obvious. Oh well.
It’s gonna be a longggg wait…
ClabogQuote Reply
Arthur,
seriously, Arthur, there were errors in this episode, but that scene was not one of them. I think you’ll like Ross the most in service of Varys. It would not be better for Ross to become a spy and not longer a prostitute?I would say yes to Varys without thinking…
well, we´ll see.
andreaQuote Reply
THAT”S THE IDEA. Jeez o’pete folks.
KGQuote Reply
i can haz rhaegar?
:(
RyanQuote Reply
I’m pretty sure D and D know the upcoming key points…not sure if they know what weaves those points together yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they did. GRRM probably gave them a rundown of what to expect so they could plan accordingly and submit budgets and all that jazz.
LordDavos12Quote Reply
Agreed, although I didn’t really like the pilot WW either. I’m suspecting that shooting in Iceland has some technical/practical limitations because all the scenes we’ve seen so far are in daytime, and it’s really affecting the storytelling in a negative way IMO. The Others were not even remotely scary. It should have been horror-movie levels of scary, and it wasn’t scary at ALL.
Plus…..the Other/”White Walker”. They still cannot get this right, and I don’t get it. IMO they should be kind of like the Ringwraiths were in Ringspace, kind of vaguely humanoid and ethereal but clearly not solid flesh, and instead we get some dude in a latex appliance, who looks sort of vaguely undead. What? They’re supposed to be completely inhuman spirits of cold. NOTHING human-like at all. If they can’t afford to make them look right, blur it with snow or something and don’t show them clearly. But the clear, long shot of what’s obviously just a guy in a mask is not scary. Why is Sam so afraid of them? NOT SCARY.
And having them just march past him, in broad daylight, ignoring him, lessens their danger so much. They’re the ULTIMATE threat in this world, all else is secondary, but we really did not feel that here.
I really liked the episode up until the House of the Undying…I agree with many here that it was seriously mishandled and had very little impact. And Jon/Qhorin made no sense.
MaralQuote Reply
ALexKdiz,
This will all be revealed for you in season 3…
If you can’t wait that long, pick up the books. =)
ArthurQuote Reply
ALexKdiz,
In the books it was Roose Bolton’s bastard son leading some of Bolton’s troops. He has offered to send him to winterfell to reclaim it for Robb twice in the series, but they really never mentioned that Robb okay’d it or Roose told Ramsay to go to Winterfell. Plus, who knows what D&D will write into the series next year so it may not be safe to assume it is Bolton’s bastard…..
darquemodeQuote Reply
well, it was quite nice for the season’s finale!! that final shot was great! poor sam, wonder whow he’ll get out of that one!
i liked the KL stuff and the witerfell moments.stanni/mel, tyrion/shae, sansa/LF (i hate lf but they both acted pretty good)!!
joff/marge, jon, arya/jaqen, danny, brienne/jaime were awesome.
but cat/robb & robb/talisa weren’t to my liking that much.
but overall, i liked the episoe a lot and it’s so sad that now the waiting begins for next season!! ;( hope times goes by quickly cause there are so many great stuff in the next book besides Sandor’s comeback! <3
Carolina HQuote Reply
Larry Williams is effing spot on with this recap
TurncloakQuote Reply
andrea,
I didn’t find any “errors” in this episode besides that one…
Ros serving as Varys “spy” doesn’t mean she is going to stop being a whore that works at a brothel… She will continue to be a whore at a brothel and report back to Verys any important info she discovers…. What do you think she is going to go to spy academy now or something?
As far as the “other more imprtant errors”, yeah there are changes from the books if that is what you mean. I didn’t not mind any of them.
What is important to you or considered an “error” may not be important to someone else. Just like my opinnion on the Ros scene is different then your own…
ArthurQuote Reply
Hear hear.
MegQuote Reply
Arthur,
That scene with Ros and Varys was one of the better scenes of the night for me, better than any of the Jon scenes or the Dany scenes.
This season has shown that D&D were not wrong to give more scenes to Ros. She has been very good to great in each of her scenes this season even if at least one of “her” scenes ran way too long thanks to Petyr “Snidely Whiplash” Baelish liking to hear his own voice a little too much.
darquemodeQuote Reply
stanvosftw,
(takes a deep breath in order to yell like a noob)
BOOK STANNIS DIDN’T KNOW TV STANNIS DOES BOOK IS NOT TV SHOW. IF YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND THAT, GO FIND A FRIENDLY ADULT TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
KGQuote Reply
I’m a reader and I was dreading the first half of the episode but the 2nd half more than made up for the episode. I overall did like the episode but some scenes were just cringe worthy.
What I liked about the episode:
Tyrion’s scene with Shae was touching
Dany walking into her father’s destroyed throne room and also seeing Drogo and her child. Beautiful cinematography and well shot.
The Dothraki getting that Turkey at the end. Hahaha! busted out laughing in that scene
The most disappointing story line was Jon’s.
Jon was made a complete fool the whole way. We had no emotional investment in Qhorin and him dying felt like nothing. If Qhorin had been schooling Jon along the way it would have made a bigger payoff for the finale that he killed him. I do understand that they may have done this to give Jon and Ygritte more screen time which is a more important relationship.
I didn’t like the scene where Stannis was choking Melissandre. It just felt wrong and out of character.
Victarion’s GriefQuote Reply
Meg,
Only thing that bothered me about the Robb wedding scene…
Can someone explain why Robb would be giving his marriage vows with the use of the “seven” in his oath instead of the Old Gods? Robb is a Stark, he doesn’t believe in the new gods. he worships the old gods… Maybe I am just confused?
ArthurQuote Reply
Tim,
I didn’t think about that, that’s interesting. I was kinda confused why they showed her walking through the Wall to the tent after being in the thrown room. That was never shown like that in the books so wasn’t sure where they were going or trying to tell us with that.
NyahsQuote Reply
darquemode,
You liked the Ros scene better then Dany’s?
Hey man, to each their own. I just have to totally disagree with you.
No problem…
ArthurQuote Reply
surely you’re joking about welcoming the red wedding/rooting for Roose. I don’t think Robb was being douchy to Cat either, he just told her that she shouldn’t scold him for his marriage and that she has no reason to talk since she released Jamie without his consent on one of the dumbest missions/quests ever. Robb’s just reminding her he’s the King, something HBO’s version has done on multiple occasions now.
Meg,
Derek WolffQuote Reply
I thought the Jon/Halfhand scene in this episode was fine. It was everything leading up to it that was the problem – I mean I really like Rose Leslie’s Ygritte but in the big picture I think the show would have been better served sticking closer to the book there.
I, too, was underwhelmed with the actual payoff to Theon’s story but I get that they want to keep that shrouded in mystery a bit. I hated, hated the Robb/Cat storyline overall and especially in this episode. I actually thought writing the “Jaime will not last the night” was potentially a clever addition but they didn’t go anywhere with it.
Still, good episode, obvious step down from Blackwater but still largely on track apart from Robb/Cat.
LordStarkingtonQuote Reply
DB,
So respecting the “love of his life”s religion would be out of character? Ned built an entire sept for Catelyn, and they weren’t even in love.
Maybe you’re just a jackass.
KGQuote Reply
I think they did start that plot, but they did it by Littlefinger being really obvious (compared to the books), basically foreshadowing that he’s going to be the one behind Dontos’ efforts.
Steven SwansonQuote Reply
Yes, Mike, this woman also felt they were trying to tempt her to stay with Drogo, see the empty promise of a cold and broken Iron Throne, all to encourage her to stay in the HOTU and help them make their own magic stronger. Nice how you pointed out the recurring theme of people underestimating Dany and being taken by surprise by her cleverness. Bravo!
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
I don’t share your hatred for how they handled Halfhand. If you paid attention to the dialogue between Qhorin and Jon, it was made quite clear Qhorin was planning this.
Remember the episode when Qhorin asks Ygritte if the wildlings will take him captive and she said the only mercy would be a quick death. It did two things; it showed that Qhorin is a (in)famous member of the Night Watch among the wildlings and it showed that Mance would never keep Halfhand as a captive.
The Red ViperQuote Reply
I didn’t think about that, that’s interesting. I was kinda confused why they showed her walking through the Wall to the tent after being in the thrown room. That was never shown like that in the books so wasn’t sure where they were going or trying to tell us with that.
NyahsQuote Reply
Damm all of you for NOT inviting me to the party and Fire Sale held at
Xaro Xhon Daxos’s place. I just heard at 9 pm PST in the San Francisco
Bay Area. Those Dothraki took all the good stuff. How come all these
comments when I only saw the episode 15 minutes ago ?
WildSeedQuote Reply
Where you going for “When Pete Dink cries, everybody cries” ??? I think that was a paraphrase of a DeLaurentis quote about his King Kong remake in the 1970s? “When my Kong die, everybody cry.”
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Well said. Fortunately I loved it too. ;-)
Steven SwansonQuote Reply
You should be, they haven’t told us yet what happened there. So you’re basically in the same boat as Bran and buddies, they don’t know either.
Steven SwansonQuote Reply
This is probably just my weird and unsettling concern over Doreahs wellbeing obscuring my judgement, but do you think it’s possible her and Ducksauce don’t die? I’m not a locksmith, but I imagine it’s entirely possible that there’s a way to open that vault door from the inside. That could mean an even more strained confrontation between Dany and Xaro when he comes as an envoy to Meereen.
AndrewQuote Reply
My take on the snow in the throne room is probably different from what you would expect, but it plays into my overall theory that the ultimate battle is between magic and science.
Most people probably interpret it as “Winter is Coming” to the Lannisters. But I see it as an allusion to the final scene with the Others (there’s even a big blue eye in the stained glass above the throne). Much like the Others, Dany brought the winter with her as she walked through the throne room, and Drogo just so happened to pitch his tent beyond the Wall, in White Walker territory (“this is dark magic” –Dany). I don’t know, but that seems pretty darn symbolic to me.
In Norse mythology, Ragnarok begins when the magical worlds of Ice and Fire mix together. And as Varys mentioned in the Blackwater episode, magic is a very dark and sinister force in the world of Westeros. Dany, Bran, Melisandre and the Others (the sons of Craster) are all tapped into that magic. They are the ones who pose the biggest threat to the world, not the Lannisters (which is another topic entirely, because I don’t think all the Lannisters are even Lannisters –Jaime & Cersei– if you know what I mean). The Maesters, agnostics, and adherents to the Seven (the “normal” religion) are the true champions of mankind – the Æsir -, whereas those who have harnessed magic are in league with darker, non-human forces – the Jotunn – (think dragons, children of the forest, shadow babies, wights, etc..).
Dany, Bran and Mel represent the 3 children of Loki. Loki is Bloodraven, aka Lord Brynden (in Norse mythology, Loki is a shapeshifter who was cursed and bound inside of a cave, under the life tree Yggdrasil, much like Bloodraven is a shapeshifter who was bound in a cave under a weirwood tree). Dany is the sea serpent, Jormundgandr, who circles the world (she’s already a serpent, and will become a sea serpent when she marries Victarion and finally gets her ships). Bran is Fenrir, the monstrous wolf who is also bound in a cave (he’s also, quite literally a “warg”, which is an Old Norse word for Fenrir). And Mel is Hel, conveniently, who reigns over the dead (red priests and priestesses bring the dead back to life, burn people, and have shadow babies). Jon Snow is Surtr, the black, who guards the border of the realm of the Æsir, and wields a fiery sword. He will lead the Sons of Muspell (the Others) across the Bifrost Bridge (the Wall) at the onset of Ragnarok and set the world ablaze with his fiery sword (Lightbringer). Jaime is Tyr, the one handed god of single combat, who will champion the Æsir. Tyrion is Fafnir, the dwarf who slays his wealthy father and flees to the protection of a dragon in a far away land. Etc… It goes on and on and on. The connections to Ragnarok, the symbolism, and even the words (i.e. warg, Hodur, TYRion, etc..) are all there.
Anyway, that’s what I think snow falling on Dany in the throne room means. Call me crazy, but I’ve done my homework on this (I’m not kidding… I’ve been thinking about all of this stuff for years, and let’s just say, the show hasn’t debunked my theories yet).
Varamyr FourskinsQuote Reply
I think this episode had a very tough act to follow after Blackwater and because of it came off somewhat flat.
I enjoyed the Winterfell story as I continue to be impressed with the child actors and absolutely adored Maester Luwin in the TV show. Since most of the interaction with Luwin comes through the eyes of Bran in the books, he comes off as lecturing. In the TV show adaptation, I felt we saw more of Maester Cressen’s feelings for Stannis from the books between Luwin and Bran than we did in the first episode on Dragonstone.
Dany’s storyline was mostly fine but failed in two respects: Where the hell did all those other dothraki come from? Secondly, I found Emilia Clarke’s delivery of Dracaris very weak. The director should have tried to get more intensity out of her. We know Emilia can do tbe intense just fine from previous episodes. Here she was too quiet and subdued in both body language and facial expression. The other changes I don’t mind. Xaro is hard to take seriously throughout the books and if this was his end, well I give credit for a great job by the actor on a very lame character. I for one don’t mind missing out on the prophecies. If they can introduce them later via Quaithe in later seasons instead of some of Daenerys’ other Essos wandering will better serve to keep her story more focused rather than meandering and slow.
The Stannis-Melisandre part was interesting. I guess the merging of Pentrose and Renly’s death is really complete here with Stannis acknowledging his hand in the murder. I prefer his ignorance of that fact in the books. But the scene failed to address why Stannis does not call upon Mel to use more shadows in the future. He was left weak after the 2nd murder in the books but here he’s quite hale and hearty. I wonder if the 3 leeches will join the Peach and the Chain as the next omission people will complain about and whether a shadow might be used to kill Balon Greyjoy.
I’m not a huge fan of the adaptation of Littlefinger. He’s portrayed too much on the nose and without the subtelty of a master player of the game. The joke about needing sons and grandsons didn’t quite resonate as it takes the court too long to react to it. The actor’s voice comes off as far too slimy than amiable. While it worked well for his dealing with Ned following Robert’s death, it didn’t work here with Sansa. I’m questioning why they even bothered hiring an actor for Sir Dontos.
Roz… well if it leads to more Varys and Littlefinger spymaster vs spymaster plot, colour me intrigued. Otherwise, bleh.
North of the Wall had several glaring things to pick apart: 1) Why didn’t the Wights or the Other not just kill Sam right then and there? 2) Jon’s plot has felt as rushed as that of Dragonstone in that the major points are addressed, but not enough time is devoted to the nuance that makes those stories more poignant. 3) There wasn’t enough build-up for the Quorin vs Jon Snow fight. Red Letter Media in its review of the Phantom Menace describes how the Darth Maul vs Jedi fights pale so much in comparison to the original trilogy’s jedi battles because they lacked sufficient emotion behind them. Again, this is due to a time constraint.
The Robb-Catelyn-Talisa parts really suffered as the characters were without the knowledge of the the Stark boys’ death. I think it would have strengthened Catelyn’s motivation for releasing Jaime. Robb could have acted upon his feelings for Talisa and gone the distance in his grief as she tried to comfort him. The actors did a fine job with what they were given. You can see the attraction between Talisa and Robb but it’s the scenarios they are placed in that makes it fall through. I didn’t have any issue with their marriage being performed by a Septon for lack of a Weirwood tree.
As many posters said, those responsible for the burning of Winterfell is left somewhat ambiguous to keep Bolton’s eventual betrayal more of a surprise. I almost prefer the way the series dealt with Theon’s capture. The speech was well-delivered, and seeing Theon get betrayed by his own men had me roaring in laughter because it came off as unexpected. I have a feeling Robb will be told in season 3 that Theon and his men were all slaughtered to the last. Might be Dagmer and the other Ironborn that had lines will be kept as captives and suffer under Ramsay. It will give Theon some more characters to continue interacting with. Alfie really did a great job with a character that didn’t really resonate until book 5.
Arya + Jaqen were great as expected.
Nothing else really comes to mind except that I was glad to see Margaery not wearing that silly dress. I wonder why they didn’t have Loras also receive the Hound’s old spot on the Kingsguard. Will he be taking his father’s place as the bumbling male Tyrell to the far more canny Margaery and the currently in casting Queen of Thorns?
MadmageQuote Reply
WildSeedQuote Reply
I’m really kind of hating what they’ve done with Littlefinger this season and how they’ve ruined two major plot points/story lines with him. The first one was with Catelyn and basically giving her the idea of releasing Jaime to get her girls back. In the book he never even discussed this with her and it was all her idea to release Jaime all on her own. The book version was so much more dramatic and ended in a cliffhanger with her waving a sword in his face, so you didn’t even know until book 3 that she actually released him. The second was his little conversation tonight with Sansa. It was big surprise in the book (for me anyway) when it was revealed what a big part Littlefinger played in Sansa’s escape from King’s Landing. But now with tonight’s conversation it won’t be such a shocker when it happens. And I’m also surprised we didn’t see more of Ser Dontos this season, Sansa’s ‘savior’.
NyahsQuote Reply
The only changes that really bother me are those which change a character fundamentally. Stannis abusing Melisandre is completely disgusting and absolutely out of character. It’s like something Robert would do, not Stannis. Stannis would reject this if for no other reason than that it’s something Robert would do. Hence why this change (along the changes to Dany’s characterization) upsets me.
I don’t care about adding entire scenes or characters, or even cutting characters or reducing screentime. As long as the people in those scenes are the people I know and not some 1-dimensional parody.
It’s actually why I’m not too upset about the Jon plot. Who cares if Jon has a longer conversation with Qhorin or not? He clearly got the message about the spy mission or he wouldn’t have killed Qhorin. He’s still Jon, nothing he did or said has changed his fundamental nature. Unlike Stannis. Unlike Dany.
If this is how HBO are going to roll, changing beloved character’s personalities completely then I’ve had enough.
stanvosftwQuote Reply
Varamyr Fourskins,
That’s some really impressive and well thought out theories, mate. All the stuff about the character parallels was really crazy. Thanks for sharing! Very interesting stuff.
AndrewQuote Reply
Derek,
Well, in the books he was just “meh” to me, but in the show? What an ass. He marries even after he has time to RATIONALLY consider it and think about the repercussions. What would be better is if he said “You know what, this war is already lost. Let’s go home, and I’m going to marry whomever I want.” But I’m sure he’s still going to continue asking men to die for him.
MegQuote Reply
Hey, we can always hope for a return to his character someday? They brought back Drogo briefly due to popular demand…
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Ok episode. They really dropped the ball setting up the Jon/Qhorin duel and the sack of Winterfell (Theon’s scenes were great though(I hope he kills that hornblower XD)).HOTU was underwhelming, but I was prepared for that.
freypieQuote Reply
just one complain… i tought the others and the wights appeared only at night
oh and also the fx of the dragon flame were a bit cheesy in my opinion
Damián ErroQuote Reply
I said “we´ll see” and I never said a thing about changes from the books, you´re confusing me with someone else… but if you want to be a douche, be a douche.
And I´m sorry but you add quotation marks to the word “error” insistently. Is not the right word? You seem offended by it.
andreaQuote Reply
freypie,
Agree. I dont how anyone who didn’t read the book could make any sense of the burning of Winterfell. Hell, I’m not even sure who burned it on teh show.
Jon’s entire storyline has been bungled badly this season, and the finale didn’t help matters. Do the writers really expect people to remember one comment Qhorin made two episodes ago and draw the link that he wanted Jon to kill him? That was just handled really poorly, and I had to laugh at Ygritte exclaiming “this is the man who killed the Halfhand!”. Qhorin was already captured and they could have killed him at any time, so I don’t see how that was so special. All Jon did this whole season was move around from one area to another, the whole time looking like a total boob: gets knocked out by Craster, ridiculed by Qhorin and Mormont, and then outwitted by Ygritte. Really, really bad character arc for the season, which is especially disappoitning since last season his wall scenes were usually among the strongest.
JorgeQuote Reply
I would think they did this because of where they are, geographically. In the south there are no weir wood trees, and there is no one to marry them besides a Septon who worships the Seven. IF they were in the North, that’s a different story, and a complete blunder on the writers’ part. but considering that the Robb-Jeyne wedding is never described in the books, its pure speculation as to how the ceremony went down.
I was confused at first, but really, ultimately, DOES IT MATTER? For the sake of the TV show, the point to get across is that Robb got married when he was betrothed to a Frey. This sets up the RW.
And, for those of you out there who are up in arms about this, and no visions in the HotU, and bloah blah blah….
If you are THAT horrified by such a minor, minor detail, you need to ask yourself if you are simply looking for reasons to say the show doesn’t do the books justice. Because, truthfully, coming from someone who LOVES the show:
The show does NOT do the books justice. Wanna know why? Because THERE IS NO WAY TO DO THE BOOKS JUSTICE ON FILM!!!!! its just not possible. period, end of story. I think the producers and writers have done a remarkable job, changes and all, of bringing this story to life on screen.
Changes i don’t agree with? Yes. Could they have done things differently to be more loyal to the source material? Sure. A fantastic television show, in a class by itself, when judged fairly, in the proper context, against other television shows? ABOSO-effing-LUTELY.
If you compare the show to the books, the show always loses. Every time. The books are just THAT GOOD!
When you remember that the books are SOURCE MATERIAL for the show, and that the opening credits say “BASED on a Song of Ice and Fire” and not “Adapted page-by-page from ASoIaF”, it becomes a lot easier to understand and appreciate the show for what it really is: A fantastic Television show, based on an amazing series of books.
I, for one, am incredibly grateful and happy to be a fan of BOTH. Looking forward to next season? Yes. Looking forward to Winds of Winter more? You bet your ass.
Thanks to George R.R. Martin. Thanks to D&D. Thanks to HBO. For me, becoming a fan of this series and this show has brought me nothing but pure entertainment and unbridled joy (except when it makes me cry. but even then, I’m happy i can even care so much about a story.)
I truly feel sorry for the people who don’t enjoy the show, to the point of being angry at the show and calling it horse shit,simply because they expect it to live up to the books. You’re never going to get that satisfaction.
Hold out hope that Winds of Winter comes quickly. I, for one, will be re-reading, re-watching, and counting the days until Season 3.
Until then……
winterfellQuote Reply
Ugh, so many thoughts, but just a few (and I’m gonna eat a bit of crow here – ba-dum): I really thought they’d come through in the clutch with Jon’s story, but then the half hour mark rolled around, then the 40 minute mark, and I realized it just wasn’t going to happen. I’ve been fine with the changes to Jon’s story line for the most part because I suppose I thought it seemed simple to swing it back ’round again to what mattered. (And I think it’s unfair to dismiss the Jon/Ygritte interaction this season as a bunch of flirting when it was quite literally the ONLY insight we’ve really had into Wildlings AT ALL, aside from Mormont’s serve-crueler-gods-than-you-or-I spiel. We learned information from those interactions, so there was a purpose. And that Jon letting slip he was Ned Stark’s bastard most likely saved his life.) The lead-up to the Qhorin and Jon fight was incredibly rushed and I think what saves me from being completely disappointed was that the fight itself was pretty good and the performances from Kit and Rose. There was some remarkably subtle work going on there, during the fight and afterwards.
At this point, in regards to Jon’s arc, I’m just happy we’re moving into A Storm of Swords territory next season. Let’s give Kit something to really do. And I am very much looking forward to more Rose. Oh, and hey, maybe Ghost, too? (Seriously, where the eff is Ghost?)
That being said, I thought the scene with Dany in the snow-covered Throne Room/at the Wall was absolutely gorgeous.
VeeQuote Reply
Winter Is Coming,
I was completely overwhelmed but enjoyed the GoT finale. I was hoping that the
Qhorin Halfhand/ Jon scenes would continue into next season where a likely
conversation would ensue and Jon repeat the Brother’s pledge, 3 minutes +
the sword fight would’ve done it. It felt like this needed to be an extended
episode ( $$$$), the rushed bits detracted some from the meaningful
plot and dialog. I was completely confused by the White Walker and Wight
Army making their way to the Fist of the First Men with Samwell hiding
behind a rock. It would be implausible for him to survive an army of Wights
with a shard of Dragon Glass. The White Walker that sat upon a horse
reminded me of Coldhands and his elk. Oh and who torched Winterfell ?
you mentioned Ramsay but there was no sign of him, only Ironborn dudes.
WildSeedQuote Reply
andrea,
Sorry if I seemed like a douche… I was under the impression you thought that since Vary was trying to make Ros his spy that she would no longer be a whore that works at a brothel… Maybe she will leave the brothel but usally a spy just does what they normally do and report things of interest to whoever they are spying for.
Yeah I think the word “error” is the wrong word to use when you disagree with a direction or change D&D are making from the books or when you don’t like something they have done. It isn’t an error just because you don’t agree with it. But if you want to continue to use error as your word that is fine with me…
Sorry if I came off like an a$$hole… Didn’t mean to.
ArthurQuote Reply
spot on.
winterfellQuote Reply
In front of a weir wood tree, raised by 2 parents with old and new gods.
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
That’s not what the Others are described in the books. Read the prologue of AGOT again. The Other have a humanoid appearance and they even seem to be wearing armour.
VirtusQuote Reply
winterfell,
That is what I was thinking as well… I never get to caught up in minor details. Just try to see if anyone else caught them or if I am missing something. There was another minor detail that bothers me…
If Ducksauce is the “king” of Quarth then how did Dany and her dozen men sack his mansion? What, he had no guards, no soldiers… The KING of the powerful city of Quarth just let a girl with 12 men capture his mansion? The entire city population is going to let Dany just leave with its riches?
But again, little details like that don’t bother me. I can make stuff up in my head to answer stuff like that. Like maybe the city didn’t like Ducksauce and were happy to let Dany come in and kill him… Who knows…
ArthurQuote Reply
They’re saving some fun for later?
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Virtus,
The Others looked pretty awesome to me… They are wraith-like humaniods. Magical and evil creatures that bring cold and blizzards with them…
The White Walkers are basically zombies come back from the dead.
I know we have argued about this in the past but thats my opinion and I am sticking to it! =)
ArthurQuote Reply
Maybe it was made clear that Quorin was planning it…but it was never clear that he let Jon in on what he was planning. That’s the issue…Jon seems oblivious to what happened and only fought out of self defense. Of course, if there is some sort of exposition next season about it, then I will be ok with it. As it stands now, it was poorly done. Halfhand just insults Jon and gets him to kill him and says “Remember our words” or whatever? It was poorly done.
LordDavos12Quote Reply
I’m mad that I now have to wait for more.
I didn’t like how poorly they set up the Quorin/Jon fight
I never much liked the whole Qarth part of the books so the wrap up in the HotU went just fine, for me. Loved seeing Drogo again.
I had pretty well talked my way around to believing that they were going to let Maester Luwin live so it was hard to see him die.
Loved Luwin’s talk with Theon but didn’t much like how they handled Winterfell’s fall. The viewer has NO idea why the folks surrounding it aren’t there anymore.
The performances by the cast continue to be fantastic. Tyrion, Shae, Baelish, Sansa, Joffrey, Varys, even Roz was better than normal.
I think they put too much of the walkers and wights at the end and would rather have had it cut to black either at the end of the three blasts or just after the pan up the horse to the blue-eyed face.
Loved the interchange between Joffrey and Maergary. He has NO idea that she can scheme circles around him while he’s trying to talk all cool and smoove.
Littlefinger was ALL KINDS OF CREEPY while talking to Sansa.
Nice to see Brienne get some respect from Jaime in the bad-ass dept.
Stannis/Mel were meh but they needed to close the loop with them, and did. Similarly, Robb/Jeyne/Talisa.
That’s all for now. Further updates as events warrant.
BlourdQuote Reply
Mrs. H’ghar,
I feel I was lead on by D&D… I remember them saying “We get to see what an almost fullgrown Direwolf does to a man”.
I thought the Ghost vs Halfhand was what they were talking about. We never saw a Direwolf attack a man (and see what it does to him) Unless they are talking about that weak .5 second scene of Greywind jumping in the air at a Lannister soldier (probably what they were talking about)….
Oh well…..
ArthurQuote Reply
Didn’t like this episode much. Many great moments from the books weren’t handled well:
Burning of Winterfell (they skipped Bran’s line at the end too >< )
Theon's arc ( No Reek)
Qhorin and Jon (wtf?)
3 Horns (Should have been slower, more dramatic.)
End of HOTU
In addition, there was a lot of confusion. Watching with my non-reader friends, they had no idea what was happening in the scenes at winterfell or beyond the wall.
DanielQuote Reply
I know it’s been said, but the Others and the White Walkers are the same. Wights are the zombies; white walkers/others are the wraith like things
LordDavos12Quote Reply
Poor Meera, as Arya would say “Im a girl!” Dont know how any reader would describe the Reeds as “brothers”
franklin,
David Marcenaro DeBernardisQuote Reply
Vee,
I agree whole heartedly to your comments, all of them. There were many small
but poignant moments ( ie. m Luwin and the boys, Tyrion and Shae, even
seeing the Khaleesi’s Khalasar again. I miss Ghost and Summer and Shaggy
terribly but next season may prove a time to develop Warg connections. GoT
got it partially right with Danerys and the dragon kids. What did you think
of the Theon in the episode? Alfie did a great job, while conversing with
maester Luwin I got a great sense of accuracy there. Poor Reek, it rhymes
with ….weak. Also Jaqhen H’hgar is super mysterious.
WildSeedQuote Reply
I know Brienne isn’t the most popular character but her double-handed swordplay was impressive.
HootQuote Reply
A woman gets where people want then snow on the throne to mean Jon, but couldn’t it also mean the long, harsh winter that’s beginning and will endanger the kingdom?
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Oh yeah…
Was it really necessary to watch a horse shit for the opening of the throne room scene?
What was that all about? Strange…
ArthurQuote Reply
Silly rabbit, everyone loves Brienne! :)
LordDavos12Quote Reply
It’s from the books so it’s the best part of the episode!
LordStarkingtonQuote Reply
wow, this is the best explanation of the problems in the Robb storyline I’ve seen thus far.
Madmage, great post!
MegQuote Reply
I also like how Dany and Jora had spent all season having to keep their Dothraki from stealing everything in sight while they were guests and now that they’ve locked Mr. Ducksauce in his own vault, they’re cleaning the place out.
BlourdQuote Reply
Few minor quibbles but overall loved this episode. Wish the horn blasts would’ve been drawn out a bit more. Even another second between each one would’ve been great.
I completely agree with Winter on Jon-Qhorin. I was skeptical when they changed this from the book because I thought the book version would work well on screen. What really irritates me though is that what they chose to go with instead just didn’t work. It was confusing and lost all of the emotional power. A friend of mine who hasn’t read the books turned to me when Jon killed Qhorin and asked, “Why’d he kill him? Why were they fighting? Why are the wildlings letting him go now?” She definitely didn’t understand what had happened in that arc and really didn’t much care.
I’ve been critical of some of the characterization of Dany this season (too much whining about how special she is) but in the end they really brought her arc home and I liked a lot of the changes that they made in Qarth this season. HotU I thought was well done, wasn’t disappointed cuz didn’t expect them to be faithful to the book there. Anyone else think that might’ve been ash in the throne room? I couldn’t decide but with the way the roof was destroyed made me think of dragons.
evilclosetmonkeyQuote Reply
This episode definately had highs and lows for me as a book reader. About an hour removed from it and I am more on the positive side about the episode. Dont get me wrong I love every episode, they could just show a still shot of tywin lannisters horse shit for an hour and id have several poignant points to glean from the visual.
With all that said,
Tyrion opening was great, seeing certain characters display strong emotion in the show is very refreshing for me(briennes scene when renly dies comes to mind). Shea is much more likeable in the show, and i believe her when she declares her love for tyrion(fuck your money).
Alfie Allen has portrayed Theon this season with such a fervor. The discussion with Luwin was what i have been waiting for. The admission that Theon has gone way too far, even so much as to call himself a pretender, was definately thought provoking.
They kind of rushed through the razing of winterfell but i loved Theons speech prior to the ironborn betraying him. Wouldve loved to see reek, it rhymes with james van der beek, but i wouldve loved to see him all season alas and alay.
Ramin Djawadi straight murders me every time. Brans scenes with the cello in the background just take me out of myself. We all knew Luwin wasnt going to make it but damn if i didnt shed a single solitary tear when he requests Osha to finish him off. This has been a strong storyline for me. The show has done a great job at with handling the traumas that these young men have endured. I feel the deep sorrow and despair that I should have felt in the books more. And its not a bad thing.
Stannis you dog you. Outstanding acting by Peter Dillane. The whole season was played out with such a quiet intensity and rage that replaced my head stannis with this new person King Stannis. I disliked him in the book but found myself itching for more scenes with him throughout the show. Major power play with Melly Melle in the finale. Choking her violently with both hands, ohhh yeah Ive been waiting for this since maester cressen was still alive. She seemed at stannis’ mercy and i liked to see that kind of role reversal play out on screen.
Robbs marriage and discussion with Catelyn, ehhhhhh. It was not great for me. They have both had amazing season 2′s and I know this stuff has to be included, but meh. At least it was quick. (love oona chaplins butt tho)
House of the Undying, where to begin. Was definately expecting more with this, but I am happy with how it was portrayed. The haunting visual of a destroyed throne room was breathtaking. Liked how she jumped from there to the wall. And then drogos tent. Alot of emotion in the Drogo scene. Emilia Clarke did well with what she was given. Three thing I would have liked to see and was disappointed that were left out:
1.) she didnt drink shade of the evening
2.) They left out a very important prophecy. This was borderline unforgivable in my eyes.
Once for gold and so on and so forth.
3.) the scene with pyat pree was anticlimactic, I was really hoping to see some SERIOUS drogon action. Instead it was just kind of way too easy, ‘dracarys’. Flame. Dead. Over.
Seeing her back with her dragons/swag back was definately cool tho and I saw the fire in her eyes again(dragonfire)!!
Jon snow and qhorin… I would have maybe split this storyline up between now and the premiere of season 3. I agree with the recap that it seemed choppy and out of juncture with the storyline from the book. The positive for me was that when Jon Snow kills Qhorin I hated him for a few minutes. I screamed out ‘bastard’. This effect left me reeling. The show left out the real importance of why jon snow had to kill qhorin, and the show could have done a better job of explaining this, even if it was 2 minutes of side dialouge between the two.
Arya and Jaqen was just right. Valar morghulis is all i have to say. Well not all… Jaqens face change was totally sweet as i have been waiting to see this face since i read clash. Tom wlashciahckowskiovitz(sp?) was great in the role. ‘unname me’ ‘NO’ ‘please…’
Brienne, Brienne, Brienne, how I love thee. Had to play this one close and I dont mind the change from the book here, it served its purpose well. While I would have liked to see her sink a ship with a huge boulder, the scene still conveyed her duty bound code of honor in protecting what is most important, her oath to Catelyn. She would go to any lengths to fulfil her vow even if it means dying. And it was refreshing to see Jaimes facial expression as he comes to realize that brienne is no ordinary woman, but bound by her word to do whatever it takes to ensure his safe return.
Im going Crazy about the sequence at the fist of the first men. I must have gotten 10 texts about it before I even had a chance to watch(i didnt look at them. White walkers- wow! Wight army, holy crap. Horde of undead monsters, scary. Its going to be gut wrenching opening next season. Better get ur dragonglass ready men.
I know im leaving stuff out big time but its a long post already so ill quit it. Cant wait to reread the books in the long winter ahead…
Valar morghulis
P.s. samuel l jackson for mance rayder! Lol
Evil erikQuote Reply
LordDavos12,
I’m definitely a fan. I hope to see much more of her in the seasons to come.
HootQuote Reply
Deborah Ambridge Fisher,
I have decided they will end up together as well. 2 of the three headed dragon. Part of the fire and ice theme. Just unsure who is the third, Tyrion is a candidate but as a book reader there are a few other possibilities.
shelleyQuote Reply
Since it was established that Luwin had some contact with Osha in the crypts, a woman would guess that Luwin previously told Osha that 500 northmen were outside the walls ready to take over the castle. What they (Luwin, Osha) did NOT know was that the northmen outside the walls were led by the insane Ramsay Snow/Bolton, who might already be turning his allegiance to the Lannister side, and in any case has no love for anybody really, he’s chaos personified. Hence the sacking, burning, moving on.
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Don’t worry, we will! :)
LordDavos12Quote Reply
Not to be an a hole but you should probably have spoiler tags on that
LordDavos12Quote Reply
Re: Ramsay Bolton
Some men just want to watch the world burn
evilclosetmonkeyQuote Reply
I enjoyed it overall, but I wouldn’t be a fan if I didn’t have nit picks:
- Ros scene in the finale? Are you fucking joking? Not only a Ros scene, but Ros SET-UP. As if the audience is biting their nails in anticipation for a riveting return of Ros next season.
-Can someone explain to me how Dany and her paltry band of Dothraki were able to waltz into the palace of the fucking king (who after having just risen to power would probably be extra paranoid with security) and kill his ass? That was some weak writing man. Perhaps some of Ros’ time could have been better spent accounting for that. On top of that, leaving out Illyrio’s ships suggests that Dany has completely severed her connection with the Magister, and by extension that she isn’t linked to some vast Targaryan conspiracy with him and Varys.
-It might not be the best idea to depict the rangers gathering fuel, as attempting to explain this issue just draws attention to the fact that there is no way anyone would be lighting any fires up there.
-Generally sick of Margery’s ridiculous attire. The dissonance between her claims of innocence and her groundbreaking innovations in cleavage exposure is bizarre.
- Robb marrying in the light of the seven. I thought you had people for this D&D.
-Everything Theon was fantastic this episode until the knock out. That whole sequence, including the burning of Winterfell couldn’t have been anything but confusing to a non-reader.
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TheNedQuote Reply
Well, the Davos storyline ends where it does in ACOK as well, leaving the viewer unaware of his fate. In an interview with Carice van Houten she said that she gets to throw Cunningham i.e. Davos to a cell, so it’s possible that they shot that scene, but decided to push it into season 3′s beginning.
I liked Dany’s visions in the House of the Undying: they weren’t the same as in the books , but especially the destroyed snowed-in throne room in King’s Landing was impressive and might provide some clues far into the future? On the other hand it might have been only one possibility of many futures, like the tent with Drogo and Rhaego. It’s understandable that not everything Dany saw in the books could be adapted to TV well: for example it would have been hard to show the vision of the Red Wedding without revealing who it concerns. But it’s a shame we didn’t see Rhaegar. The final set-up to the warlock’s demise could have used more time. It’s a shame they didn’t mention the three betrayals and the three mounts, considering how much speculation is related to them among book readers. But I think the last scenes of the Dany storyline were quite good.
I agree with many others in that Jon’s storyline is currently much worse than in the books. I still don’t see why the show runners didn’t want to follow the book storyline with him and Qhorin. I understand changes if they make the story better, but this change had the opposite effect. The ranging and retreat of Jon and Qhorin in the book is much more exciting than this version. And it’s not like it would have even been more costly on special effects or anything. The show made Jon seem like a bumbling fool, almost like Dontos…
Didn’t like Stannis choking Melisandre. No complaints on Arya and Jaqen. The scenes with Tyrion were solid and the scene in the throne room was good as well. But it’s a shame that they wasted valuable minutes into a Ros scene once again… Regarding Varys by the way, considering the events in ADWD some readers have speculated that Varys isn’t really a eunuch but is merely playing a role. But in this scene Ros seems to have confirmed that he is in fact a eunuch. I hope the writers OK’d this with GRRM, otherwise it could be a nasty butterfly effect.
VirtusQuote Reply
Regarding the last scene by the Fist: I think it’s made pretty clear in the books that the Others attack only at night, not during daylight. Besides I think the scene would have been more dramatic if it were set during night in general as well.
VirtusQuote Reply
TheNed,
- Ros scene in the finale? Are you fucking joking? Not only a Ros scene, but Ros SET-UP. As if the audience is biting their nails in anticipation for a riveting return of Ros next season.
Hah! My thoughts exactly… D&D’s weak attempt at trying to justify Ros…
D&D’s convenient portal to whore/brothel scenes so they can satisfy some co-execs need for naked females being used and abused…
It is known.
ArthurQuote Reply
They could still introduce those ships in the first episode of season 3 when Dany goes to the docks.
VirtusQuote Reply
I loved it. I loved that it was teary – Tyrion and Shae, when she professes that she will stay and he breaks down, I nearly lost it. When Dany went into the tent and found Drogo – I admit, I blubbered.
There were only two things I wasn’t crazy about: the Jon/Qhorin fight I would have liked more explanation about Qhorin sacrificing himself to get Jon on the “inside”. That would have made the character much more epic like he was in the book. And the sacking of Winterfell, where I think non-book readers will not understand why the place was destroyed. A few words of explanation from Luwin would have helped.
The ending was suitably epic and left me pumped for next season.
JeremyQuote Reply
I’m a reader, let’s get that out of the way first and foremost.
I came away with mixed feelings about this episode. Some was good, some… not so much.
There are two mitigating factors here. One: I’m sick. That puts me in a bad mood and less likely to like something. Two: I don’t know how in the hell anyone thought topping Blackwater was a possibility, with the sheer awesome of that episode still fresh in my mind. Also, for the record, reader or no, I don’t give two Tywin’s Horse Shits about the chain, I thought Blackwater was masterfully handled from beginning to end.
Here are the things that I liked, in no particular order:
Pycelle getting one back on Tyrion. Don’t get me wrong, Tyrion’s my favorite character, but Pycelle with the coin, that was awesome. Hell, pretty much every little thing with Tyrion this episode was solid, and some masterful acting from all around.
Theon. While the VERY end was a letdown, up to that point, this episode gave us some very interesting insights into the character. And I have to give a lot to Alfie Allen here, he has enough talent to make me feel sorry for even a vile piece of crap like Theon Greyjoy. I wish the payoff was better, but I won’t argue with what I did get.
The Fist of the First Men (Prelude). The most epic scene in the whole episode. Let the medieval fantasy zombie apocalypse begin. Now Sam, don’t forget your dragon glass. *Insert evil laugh here*
The House of the Undying Part 1. Drogo. I was a big Stargate Atlantis fan, and the return of Jason Momoa made me quite happy (not to mention surprised). I didn’t get Rhaegar, but I at least got an often underestimated character actor who deserves better work than a crappy Conan remake.
I’m gonna catch hell for this one: Ros. Okay, I need to clarify this. When they actually give her a halfway decent script to work with, Esme Bianco is not a bad actress in the slightest. This season has gone a long way in giving her a character, and even let her keep her clothes on throughout. Yes she’s not in the books, and yes most of her scenes in season 1 were obnoxious, but her work this season I felt was positively heartbreaking. The look on her face when she was taken as a hostage by Cersei was devastating. And in this episode, she gets some time with another real great of the cast, Conleth Hill, and you know what? She kept up. She had a rough start, but I genuinely believe this girl deserves more respect than she’s getting.
Stuff I didn’t like:
The House of the Undying – Part 2. Not ’cause I didn’t like the imagery, I found it stunning. My biggest problem with it is that they didn’t get the prophesy out there. That was the big part of that scene in the books, Rhaegar’s prophesy, and that was cut. They didn’t even find another way to get it back in there. Yes, it’s a fairly small detail to cut, but to me, it was an important part of the scene, and I’ll be kinda surprised if they can get it back in there.
The stuff with Qhorin. In all honesty, I’m a bit torn on this one. really liked Rose Leslie’s performance as Ygritte, which I felt injected new life into a character I never really liked in the books. But with the new slant on Ygritte, we’re left with a big hole in the Qhorin storyline, which didn’t feel nearly as dramatic as it did in the books. I really missed the scene in the cave where the pair recited their Night’s Watch Oath again. That felt powerful to me, and it was cut in this version of events. With budget constraints being what they are, I guess they couldn’t do both. But there’s a big part of me that wished they could.
Doreah turning Traitor. This one made me sad. I really liked Doreah. Roxanne McKee’s performance had this innate girlishness which I felt was really endearing. I was quite pleased when she survived the Red Wastes… then this happened. Boo.
Galen FirestoneQuote Reply
There’s just no way I can wait for Season 3! Or for Season 2 to come out on blu-ray! Crazy episode tonight! The white walker scene just blew me away! I was also glad to see so much of the dragons in this episode! It still didn’t beat the Blackwater episode last week in pure amazing-ness, but it was a fantastic finale!
ViolentosQuote Reply
I liked the fact that they kept Tywin’s horse dropping a massive dung at the entrance to the Throne Room. The Exec Prod’s are a fan of the vulgar stuff so I’m not surprised it made it. I didn’t like the fact that the scene was so short and that Loras wasn’t admitted into the Kingsguard.
I liked the scene between Ros and Varys, surprisingly.
I’m indifferent to the changes to Brienne. They’ve made her a bit more of a killer, which is different from the books, it’s hard to say whether it will play out as well though. I have a feeling that the Season 3 Harrenhal stuff will be a bit hit and miss because of it.
I liked Tyrion’s scar. They celebrated Tyrion a bit too much over the first two seasons, not really giving much screentime (if any) to his flaws or faults or his ‘bad side’ besides the drinking. It will be good to see his descent in future seasons. Wonderfully acted by Dinklage this episode as well. I’m probably a bit more critical of him than most people here, he’s not always ‘on key’ but when he is he really nails it.
I wasn’t a fan of the changes to the Winterfell/Theon Storyline ending for the season. I understand that due to budget they probably had to do away with showing the Boltons or a battle altogether. However unlike most people here, the Theon storyline has always been off for me, ranging from juust a little bit to very off in some places. Alfie’s performance has been really good, butI just haven’t been able to get into it all season despite that.
The final Maester Luwin scene didn’t come off as strongly because of their decision to have him learn of Bran and Rickon’s fake deaths in episode 8. It was way more emotional in the books when he cried of happiness and sorrow combined.
Glad they kept Jaqen’s face changing.
Haven’t liked the Daenerys storyline at all this season. It’s my least favourite storyline in the books and in the show they ruined it. Oddly enough though, they won’t come off any worse for future seasons minus the lack of Irri.
House of the Undying wasn’t as good as the books, expected as much, however the dragon CGI was cool, and kudos to them giving Jason Momoa a cameo, I’m sure he was pleased with that.
Seeing the Red Keep if she should fail (a cold darkness) was a good touch as well.
It’s a shame that we didn’t get to see any events from the past, I expected as much though.
What I was really disappointed about was the lack of Arstan Whitebeard and Strong Belwas, however I suppose that scene will be early in season 3, but it would have made more sense to end her storyline with her taking a ship from Qarth.
I am unsure whether they wrote that out or not, it’s possible that a dock scene was undoable for some reason.
Another large casualty has been Jon Snow’s storyline, dear god they butchered that. Yes they went to Iceland, yes it looked cool, Rose Leslie does a good Ygritte and Rattleshirt was cool.
But wow, starting with Vanessa Taylor they absolutely ruined the storyline with the writing, it just doesn’t come off anywhere near as good as the books … and I just can’t understand how they think that it was any good at all.
I recall they said they were filming in a cave at night. Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a cave shot in the show ?
If anything it has been completely detrimental to Jon’s character. That said though, I thought the way George finished Jon’s chapters up in A Dance with Dragons was a bit off (his decision in particular) … but that’s just me.
The final scene looked fantastic, it was a good way to end season 2, as yes the White Walkers probably did need to be seen on the show.
However they’ve done another ‘Will’ like episode 1 of Season 1. How exactly is Sam supposed to survive that?
I was actually a big fan of the chapter where he recalls the attack on the fist of the first men, but I can see they’ve already come in early and thrown that one on the chopping block.
As a book fan, this season has been a real mixed bag for me. For the most part I was disappointed. I am really at odds with a lot of decisions and trends that the writers of the show are making, for instance every time a character is about to go into a ‘D&D Monologue’ I roll my eyes.
Blackwater was the only episode that was very good, every other episode either hit and miss, disappointing or downright awful.
I don’t think I’ll be rushing out to buy this season on DVD like I did with the first season, I’ll probably just wait for the show to finish and buy it in a box set.
Jordan HealeyQuote