Now that season two has finished, and we’ve had time to digest these last couple episodes, I’d like to look back on the season as a whole. Just as I did last year, I’m going to evaluate the good and the bad from this season, the pluses and minuses, what worked and what didn’t work.
Let’s start with the good. This season featured an improvement over season one in the area of achieving an epic sense of scale. The world felt real and it felt big. I think the decisions to film in Iceland and Croatia were a huge part of that success. Also the cinematography this season helped provide a more epic and cinematic feel. Not only did they achieve in an area I thought was lacking in season one, but they continued to improve on the amazing production design. All of the new sets and locations looked amazing: Pyke, Harrenhal, Dragonstone, Qarth, etc. The returning locations, like Winterfell and King’s Landing, looked just as good, if not better. Say what you will about the quality of the writing or directing, this is still hands-down one of the best-looking shows on television.
I also felt the show improved on two other complaints I had from last season, those being too much sexposition and a lack of battles. I can only recall one scene of sexposition this year and it is one that occurred in the book. In fact, the delivery of exposition this season was much less overt than last. Some of that is down to this being the second season, so less introduction to the world and its characters is needed. But I also think the writers did a good job of fitting the exposition in naturally and, in some cases, letting viewers fill in some of the details themselves. As to the presence of sex and nudity in non-exposition scenes, I don’t mind it, as it almost always has a reason for being there (despite what the comments from certain pervy producers may lead you to believe).
As far as the battles go, I would have preferred to see at least one battle scene with Robb, just to remind viewers that he is currently engaged in a war… which he is winning. But it is hard to complain about the lack of battles there when this show gave us the single most epic battle in television history. I’m talking, of course, of the Battle of the Blackwater. I had high hopes for this sequence, after all of the hype and build-up, and my expectations were not just matched but exceeded. What we got was exciting, bloody, epic and emotional. And that wildfire explosion — wow.
One area this show has been consistently strong in is acting. The acting last season was superb. This season it was even better. Newcomers like Stephen Dillane, Liam Cunningham and Tom Wlaschiha knocked their roles out of the park. Returning actors stepped up their game, like Gethin Anthony, Lena Headey and Alfie Allen. And old favorites such as Peter Dinklage, Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner continued to impress. Even the small roles are well-acted, like Nicholas Blane as the Spice King or Lucian Msamati as Salladhor Saan. Hats off to the entire cast for some fantastic acting, to the directors for their work in bringing these great performances to the screen and especially to Nina Gold, Robert Sterne and their casting team for finding some amazing actors.
Now to my dislikes from season two. I have gone on record a number of times that I did not like what they did with the Jon and Qhorin storyline. I’m not going to rehash my criticisms here as I want this post to be strictly about the TV series and not a book comparison (that being said, you can read my finale recap or listen to this podcast if you want to hear my thoughts on the Jon/Qhorin situation).
The other main issue I had with this season is the pacing of the overall story. A Clash of Kings is a tough book to adapt. Not only does the story spread out considerably, but there is an imbalance in the storylines. We don’t spend much time with Dany or Jaime or Robb, for instance. For the TV series, the writers tried to inject these storylines with some extra material but with mixed results. I felt the way they handled Jaime was perfect. They added some new stuff, and moved up some stuff, but it was organic. They didn’t draw his storyline out to create more screentime with him. They also didn’t feel the need to check in with his character every episode; they cut to his story only when there was something to say, whether it be plot or character development.
On the flip side, I think too much time was spent with Robb and Dany where not much happened. Arya and Jon’s storylines fell prey to this at times as well. It’s like the writers want us to remember a character still exists, so they give us a scene that is just a rehash of earlier developments. This does not serve the characters or the story well. It slows down the overall pacing and makes the characters seem one-note (how many times did Dany say she was going to take what is hers with fire and blood?). Next season, I would like to see the writers spend more time on the stories where there is more material. And not to be afraid of skipping major characters storylines in some episodes, if there isn’t something new or interesting the audience will learn. In the end, I think this will make for a more exciting and gripping season, as we won’t have multiple scenes depicting stagnant characters that popped up in certain storylines this season.
All in all, I felt season two was a good, sometimes great, season of television. It improved on season one in some key areas, while continuing to deliver some of the series’ hallmarks, such as great acting and superb production design. Some of the pacing problems that cropped up were because of the nature of adapting A Clash of Kings to TV, and hopefully next season this area can be improved upon. I will have to do a rewatch of season two to decide if it was better or worse than season one. But I can safely say that I enjoyed this season a lot and am really looking forward to season three!
What about you? What did you think of season two overall? What did you like and dislike? Sound off in the comments below and then rate the entire season in our new poll.
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155 Comments
Very fair review of the strengths and weaknesses of Season 2.
AndrewQuote Reply
I was a little surprised the writers never realized how much they were overselling the “TAKE WHAT IS MINE WITH FIRE AND BLOOD” phrase. I really wanted the Spice King to respond with something along the lines of “Yes, yes, fire and blood, we’ve heard it all before.” and have that be the end of it.
ETA: I’m hoping next season, with ASOS being spread out over the course of the next two seasons, we’ll get more episodes where we spend bigger chunks of time, say 10-12 minutes for 3 or 4 major characters per episode, depending on how many of them are in the same location. Even five characters at ten apiece would be preferable to checking in on 8 or 9 different characters for 5 or 6 minute peeks.
poguemahoneQuote Reply
Wow, Season 2 was as good as Season 1 IMO…even after reading all the books between seasons! I wonder how many more ASOIAF fans were made between seasons 1 and 2? Even with the changes D & D made, a woman was even more impressed with S2 than S1, and actually liked some of the plot twists quite a bit, like the dragon-napping and other Qarth twists. Can’t wait for S3, will read the books again in the meantime, Probably the only book series in years interesting enough for repeat readings!
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Mrs. H’ghar,
agreed, I think season two was just as good, maybe even a little better than season one and I am also a book reader! I love the show, its my favorite show of all time and I gave it a 10 out of 10 on imdb, or, as I rated it below, a 5 out of 5!
serumQuote Reply
This was a very fair and balanced review. Despite departing from ACOK more than S1 did from AGOT, I have to say I definitely enjoyed S2 as much as – if not more than – S1, because it was fantastic television and I’m actually quite good at viewing the books and TV series as separate entities (having watched S1 before reading AGOT, I think that helps).
I have to say that the writing felt more consistent in S1 than S2, but the high points of S2 were higher than those of S1 (as were the lower points, but there weren’t too many of them, in my opinion – others may well disagree).
All in all, great series, I’m a very happy fan, I understand most of the changes they made for the adaptation (even the HotU, after some initial confusion/annoyance. But I do not get why they changed Jon/Qhorin, they were doing so well adapting Jon up until they made him run off with Ygritte for a few episodes! Was that just to give Rose Leslie more time to wiggle? There’s plenty of time for that in S3! Although the actor playing Qhorin was very good, and Rose Leslie is the perfect Ygritte.)
Roll on season 3! It’s going to be a long winter…
HyacinthGirlQuote Reply
For me season 1 had a better focus/pacing than season 2 (primarily because the first book had better focus/pacing than book 2 to begin with), but I will say that season 2 definitely had a lot more cooler scenes.
MikeQuote Reply
I think they exeeded season 1 in all aspects save the writing. Though the writing was at times brilliant, as well.
As far as the Jon/Qhorin thing goes. I didn’t really mind it being shortened. I loved the Ygritte/Jon scenes. But it grates on me that it seemed like Jon killed Qhorin in self defence, and that Qhorin didn’t necessarily want to die either. Not just because it changed up Jons story, but because it was just less dramatic in general.
I’m not sure I can complain about Danys storyline that much, since we didn’t really see that much from her, and I don’t think this was any worse than the book, at least. Also loved the House of the undying! I just pray (and believe) we’ll get those prophecies later somehow.
Though Jaimes story was great this season, it still irks me that they made him more evil-like here with that stupid escape attempt.
The writers did well on the Arya story, though. Her scenes with Tywin were intense, and a joy to watch acting-wise. The Amory Lorch killing was cool, and I think it was the right move to decide to make her develop into the little killer we all know and love a little later.
The last two eps were the best in the entire series so far! Especially Blackwater felt like a movie, and I loved how they just went for it and ditched all the other storylines, to make one coherent episode. I truly hope they dare make eps with less characters/locations in future seasons, because I was just transfixed the entire time.
Overall, I think season 2 was a bit better than season 1.
sjweningsQuote Reply
Mrs. H’ghar,
The Dark Tower series by Stephen King is amazing as well, I definitely recommend reading that if you haven’t already!
serumQuote Reply
I think Blackwater worked so well because they focused on all the characters in a certain location, rather then hopping around every 6-10 minutes.
More of that kind of storytelling will serve Season 3 well (as it did Season 1).
Not saying its easy, but thats the last hurdle to leap before this series becomes one of the greatest of all time.
Jon GloriosoQuote Reply
I think season 2 had more “WOW” episodes than season one. I like the Qarth changes (with the exception of the House of the Undying), though the Robb and Talisa change was unexpected. At least with the book departures, the creators went with established lore and history from the books.
I agree the acting was top notch, and the sets and locations were spectacular. I was disappointed with how they handled Jon’s story arc. I think having more scenes with him and the Halfhand would have helped elevate Jon rather than portray him as a bungling bastard.
Can’t wait for season 3! Go Team Stannis!
Jimmy AQuote Reply
I would have preferred to see at least one battle scene with Robb, just to remind viewers that he is currently engaged in a war… which he is winning.
I’m with you on this, WIC. Not necessarily a battle, but at least one scene where we get to witness war tactics being discussed, decisions being made, anything that would explain exactly what makes Robb such a great strategist and such a loved military leader. I think a bit more emphasis on this aspect wouldn’t have hurt but hey, you can’t have everything. :)
All in all I would definitely rate this season higher than the first, it was everything I expected and more, a real thrill to watch.
MachaQuote Reply
Overall I’m pretty happy with Season 2 but there were a few niggles.
While Iceland looked epic on screen and great for the scenes in the Frostfangs I do wish they had filmed the Fist of the First Men somewhere else or at least added some CGI forrest around it.
As it was it just looked like one ice/snow covered rocky outcrop amongst lots of other ice/snow covered rocky outcrops.
As other have said I wish they had kept the Jon/Qhorin plot a little closer to the books, even when they were captured I kept expecting them to somehow escape and get the chase through the Frostfangs.
House of the Undying, no real problems with the visions shown but it would have been great just to see a Blue Rose growing out of the Ice as Dany walked though the Wall.
Will probably watch Season 1 again before rewatching S02.
MormegilQuote Reply
A great, concise review, WiC! And thanks for your coverage, by the way. It’s been great from the start!
Personally, I would add the big disappointment that is Dan & David’s Catelyn to the list of bad – which, again, is very short this season.
(And I take issue with your paragraph about Robb and his lack of war-related action: In the novels, his war is almost lost already at this point… ;) )
All in all, Game of Thrones has become one of the best contemporary television programmes, and certainly the best one of its genre – ever.
But judging from A Storm of Swords, we can look forward to something even better next year. God, how I always hoped to someday watch that wedding on television!… ;)
Herr FickQuote Reply
Don’t mind changes, but while I believe it was smart to beef up Robb and Dany’s storylines… the choices that D & D made kinda sucked.
And they destroyed the Jon storyline.
On the positive side;
- save for the muddled burning of Winterfell, they knocked Theon’s story out of the park!
- Iceland was incredible
SerCountryFriedStreakQuote Reply
Season 2 started off well and the production quality amazed me. It was great last year, but they improved and really managed to capture Westeros this season.
After the first few episodes though my experience became a bit bi-polar. Some arcs were brilliant, but some like Dany’s, Jon’s and Robb’s were subpar if not outright nonsensical at times. It was not that these arcs were the most different from the books, but the fact that they changed the tone of the characters from the books and the stories were filled with major logic holes. D&D managed to make both the arcs and the characters inferior versions of the books.
I did love the Iron Islands and Theon’s arc It was very different from the books, but really captured Theon and improved upon theon and the story to me. I liked all of the castings even if some were very different from the book.
King’s landing was amazing this season and Blackwater was awe inspiring. Joffrey, Tyrion and Varys continued to shine brilliantly and the more dubious performances from Season 1 like Cersei and Lancel really found their characters this year and they excelled as well.
I do think D&D missed an opportuniy to show the horrors of war at Harrenhal. It really is the beginning of Arya’s transformation and without puttng her through hell we lost a lot of her journey from the books. However, I still very much enjoyed the Harrenhal scenes this year. I thought Jaqen was spot on and I liked the brilliant (albeit repetative) Tywin and Arya scenes that were created for the series!
My major complaint this year was that D&D seemed to have lost the tone of the books at times. There were so many cliche and contrived scenes this season and much of it felt dumbed down to me. Amory Lorch’s death, Robb and Talisa’s wedding, and so many other scenes just felt wrong to me.
I feel over all this season was a step backwards in storytelling and a step up in production and performance for the most part. I graded Season 1 an “A-” overall, but Season 2 would be a straight”B” (if not a B-) sadly.
I really hope by splitting A Storm of Swords into 2 seasons D&D can take their time to tell the stories and keep the tone of the book better. I hope they bring the prophecy and mystery into the show more, as well as bringing back the subtlety and nuance from Season 1.
darquemodeQuote Reply
Having just re-watched both Season 1 and Season 2 this week, I’m ready to give my overall thoughts:
I thought Season 2 was fantastic. I loved all the new characters and casting choices. The season overall is more exciting and action-packed than Season 1. On the negative side, the pacing was more uneven than the first season, and felt even more rushed. Now for specifics:
THE PERFECT / NEARLY PERFECT:
-Theon’s storyline. They NAILED it. I loved every single Theon scene, and have absolutely no complaints.
-Stannis and Davos. Just perfection. LOVED Stephen Dillane.
-Tyrion’s storyline. My favourite part of Book 2, and they didn’t disappoint. I loved his interactions with Janos Slynt, Varys, Littlefinger, Bronn, Shae, etc. (I was also totally surprised by how much I liked Shae by the end of the season, since I couldn’t stand her in the first couple episodes).
THE VERY GOOD:
-Arya’s storyline. I thought the new scenes with Tywin were simply excellent, and Jaqen H’ghar was better than I could have hoped. The only reason this isn’t perfect is because the weasel soup was missing, and her time in Harrenhal overall felt less dark than in the books.
-The White Walkers in the finale. AWESOME. I get shivers every time I re-watch that scene.
THE AVERAGE:
-Dany’s storyline. I liked the changes (it was pretty boring in the book). I also liked the House of the Undying. No major complaints here, but it just couldn’t match her great story arc from Season 1.
-Robb/Talisa. Meh…
THE NOT SO GOOD:
-Jon’s storyline suffered, mainly because it wasn’t given enough time. I loved his interactions with Ygritte, but a few more scenes with Qhorin would have made all the difference in the world. It was better on a rewatch, rather than waiting weeks in between, but still could have been so much better.
Special shout out to the music. Ramin Djawadi really did a superb job this year. My favourite song is Stannis’ theme, “Warrior of Light” (especially at the start of the Blackwater episode).
Overall, I’d give Season 2 a 9/10. Probably tied with Season 1.
LexQuote Reply
Macha,
Agreed. At times it felt like Robb was a schoolboy trying to sort out a Prom date more than an undefeated General on the battlefield! I would have liked more of Robb in battle mode (post-battle or pre-battle, not necessarily fighting), or the feeling of a war campaign going on around him more.
darquemodeQuote Reply
Couldn’t have said it any better myself, this just about how I feel about season 2 as well.
Duff ManQuote Reply
I absolutely loved this season! I too wish that Dany had gotten a bit more variety in her threats, but the spirit of it was to me an improvement. She seemed to come into leadership much too naturally in the book, so I liked that they drew out her growth.
Another highlight was deffinitely Sophie Turners performance, as well as newcomer Stephen Dillane. It took a long time for me to start liking Stannis in the books, but Dillane did perfect.
I also read the books after watching Season One, and ive never really had trouble viewing them sepperately. Maybe seeing the show first does help. Ive read them roughly six times now, so its not like I dont know the story well, haha.
AndrewQuote Reply
I thought season 2 was better than season 1, with the notable exception of the season finale. The Jon storyline was a mess, and the burning of Winterfell felt rushed. Both certainly left more than a few new viewers scratching their heads.
Default KingQuote Reply
A woman thanks you for the recommendation! That’s worth looking into, haven’t read any Stephen King for a while but really loved “The Stand.”
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Overall I give the season 4.5/5, it just lacked some of the magic the first season had, but then again I never enjoyed ACOK as much as I enjoyed GOT either.
The KingslayerQuote Reply
Huge mistake by D & D, the burning of Winterfell is a pivotal and tragic moment in the series that shocked me to the core, they really screwed that up badly with the invisible Bolton army.
Oh and why they robbed Arya of killing The Tickler from ASOS baffles me.
The KingslayerQuote Reply
This. Stannis’ theme was pure genius, I also just finished rewatching S2 and now it stood out even more than before, sent shivers down my spine. While I’m pretty sure Blackwater will end up being highly overlooked at the Emmys, I really believe it deserves an award for sound mixing/editing, at least (not to mention special effects).
*sigh* How come this is over?? It feels like only yesterday the ‘The Night is Dark and Full of Terrors‘ teaser came out.
MachaQuote Reply
I think the writers can afford to condense the material better. I don’t mind if we only see dany in 3 episodes next season. The season will be stronger that way.
Petter K. VikestadQuote Reply
Petter K. Vikestad,
This.
Honestly I don’t understand D&D’s “logic” that every character needs to have relative screentime. unless it some contractual thing Some characters are only around for one season so why not give them the time they need to have an impact. Example being Qhorin. He was drastically short-changed this season and we will never have another chance to see more of his story now. Instead we got extra Robb and any who basically do the same thing next season. It was nonsensical.
darquemodeQuote Reply
yep, read them between seasons as well. didn’t have a clue about ASOIF existence before the show started ;p I liked S1 slightly better tho.
jkbQuote Reply
I thought this recap was fairly spot on, but I’d thought I’d share my likes and dislikes of the season.
Likes
-Scary Qarth. While some of the changes (and dialogue) of Dany’s story were poorly done, I did like how they made Qarth more exciting with the whole stealing the dragons plot of Pree, Daxos and Doreah.
-Tywin and Arya. These have been some of the most fantastic dialogue scenes ever on TV, and do wonders in developing both of those characters. Despite what others have said, I liked how they exposed a more personal side of Tywin (even though arya still wanted to kill him) because I don’t think he should be viewed as the pure evil character that some people do.
-The rest of harrenhal: They did an amazing job with the whole set in making a house of horrors, all the minor characters (Gendry, the Tickler, Polliver, Rorge, Hot Pie, and especially Jaqen!) were incredibly well done, and while there was some doubt about the mountain after his first few scenes, I think his scene with Tywin more than redeemed him.
-All things Kings landing: Winter is Coming touched on most of this so I’m not going to re hash that, but pretty much everything there was awesome.
-Shae’s re-do: I know I’m likely going to catch some flak for this, but I think the way they have changed Shae has honestly strengthened her character. While some of her early scenes simply seemed bitchy, the ones where she tried to protect Sansa added a new depth to her character, and her final scene with Tyrion was both emotionally overpowering and a wonderful expose’ of both their characters. I know some think her anger with our favorite Imp will make her betrayal of Tyrion less powerful, but considering how much she seems to love him (based on the fact that she tried to get him to leave Westeros), I think they are taking in a whole new direction. Considering that she is already Sansa’s handmaiden, I think Tyrion’s marriage to Sansa will be MUCH more of a blow to their relationship than it was in the books, and I think her betrayal might be a crime of passion in the show rather than that she was playing him all along like in the books .
-Everything else I liked has been already pointed out by Winter is Coming and others… so moving on…
What I Disliked
-Robb/ Catelyn’s premature mistakes: I don’t have a problem so much with how they changed the story of Robb’s marriage as much as I do the reasons. And the reasons are the same for Catelyn’s release of Jaime. They don’t seem nearly as justified since they have yet to find out what “happened” to Bran and Rickon. I also strongly dislike the way they have Robb treating his mother, I understand Edmure hasn’t entered the show yet so it couldn’t really be anyone else who imprisoned her, but the blatant disregard of her seems contrary to Robbs character, and makes him look like more of a headstrong ass than someone who is making a mistake due to honor.
-The Northmen forgetting their gods- I know this is minor, but come on writers, research the damn books. I could MAYBE understand Robb worshipping the Seven since although he is a northman, his mother could have raised him that way. BUT LORD KARSTARK (quote “I would offer my heart to the Father if my sons could step out of the grave and into a cell”)? Please… don’t forget the Old Gods.
-Dany’s shrinking circle of friends- I know that to make Qarth more exciting, they probably had to kill more people, but did we have to lose Rakharo AND Irri, two of the more interesting characters from the books who are both alive in ADWD. Add to that Jhiqui has disappeared and Doreah betrayed her, and the only developed characters around Dany are Jorah and maybe… Kovarro?
-Bumbling Jon- I really hope they overcompensate for Jon’s development in the future, because making him seem so foolish and sometimes even frail was maddening. Also, some non-book viewers did NOT understand that Jon hasn’t actually betrayed the watch, and that Qhorin forced his own death so that they would believe him. Although the dialogue with Ygritte was great, it did make Jon look more idiot than simply honorable for letting Ygritte go.
Theres more I can write but I’ll stick to that for now… Oh wait, one more thing. HOW THE FUCK ARE THEY GONNA REASONABLY EXPLAIN SAM SURVIVING THAT AT THE END?!?! Other than that I loved the White Walker’s scene, but… oh well I guess we’ll find out in 10 months or so.
Well theres all of my (likely deluded) thoughts, I’d love to hear yours, especially if you were patient enough to read mine.
Ser Balon SwannQuote Reply
Well, i got quite annoyed at superfluous scenes because then other parts needed to be rushed.
JennyQuote Reply
darquemode,
Perhaps it was a deliberate call and we’ll see more of Robb’s ‘battle mode’ in S3, with the introduction of Edmure and the Blackfish. I can see the reasoning behind such a decision, if this was the case, but I think they kinda missed the mark on this one, because IMO Robb ended up being somewhat separated from the whole ‘War of the Five Kings’ atmosphere. I have no major complaints regarding Talisa’s character or their scenes together, mind you. I actually found them sweet and refreshing. Yet somehow, if I’d be asked to describe Robb’s scenes this season, the first thing that comes to mind would be…a lot of walking through tents. :) But, like I said, in the great scheme of things, this is just a minor issue for me, as I’m sure his arc in S3 will more than make up for this. We’re really getting there, aren’t we? What was that line from Harry Potter? ‘You’re gonna suffer…but you’re gonna be happy about it’. :) Yup, sounds about right.
MachaQuote Reply
I agree with WiC and with Lex. they pretty much nailed my thoughts.
so that´s it
Thiago WaldhelmQuote Reply
Agree with your take almost 100%. General vibe of the show was stronger, visually beautiful, great acting, but the expansion of minor storylines just didn’t come off, and they could have used that time to flesh out some of the other characters and plots more. And this is after I rewatched the entire thing, I actually enjoyed the expanded storylines less the second time through.
But like you said, this book is a trickier proposition than the first and, I’m guessing, the thirds. Well done overall.
Steven SwansonQuote Reply
Ser Balon Swann,
I forgot to mention Sam being surrounded by the Others’ wight army in my post.
As much as the scene was moving and the army was great…. the scene was mediocre to me. Having the White walkers out in the daytime at full sun was just dumb and unneeded. Then toss in Sam being surrounded like that and not only avoiding attack, but not getting more than a sideways look from Mr. Icyface.
I wish they had filmed that at night or made it look like night in post and made Sam more on the periphery of the army and not in its midst. As it was it felt very contrived and just silly.
darquemodeQuote Reply
Very accurate assessment of season 2.
I reread ACoK along with watching season 2 and Jon/Qhorin interaction was definitely a big miss. It was something that really made no sense to change. Time wasted with the Ygrette flirting and Ros could have been much better spent developing Jon/Qhorin’s relationship. I understand changes for budget, simplicity, etc., but this change really didn’t make sense as it would of added a lot more depth to the final scene between them. Also to have Jon kill Qhorin the way he did was just wrong for the character, with him being disarmed and his hands tied. In the book it was almost accidental the way it happened and would have just worked better. It is one of the few times in the adaptation that I felt they really missed.
Rob’s arc was definitely overdone as well. They spend way too much time on developing the relationship. I would of much rather had that be done as it was in the book, with him going to the Crag and coming back and explaining why he was wifed up all a sudden. Another change that was made that I really don’t understand as it wasn’t something done with cost or simplicity. I feel that time of the show could have been better spent.
Another miss I think is the use of the Mountain. He is one of the few truly evil characters in the book and I think they have under used him. He was such a menacing figure. I am wondering if they plan on changing actors for season 3 and that is the reason why.
I am undecided about the end of the season. I liked it much better in the book when they were on the fist and heard the horn and how it was confusion and then escape after realizing they couldn’t stop the wights. If they do something like that to continue the story line in season 3 I will be happy. I have a feeling they are just going to pick it up with Sam wandering through the haunted forest. If that is the case I will be disappointed.
I also thought the House of the Undying was a miss. They could have really had some buzz going if they had some foreshadowing as in the book with people talking (with the Red Wedding and Rheagar talking of the Prince that is promised). I am fine with the stuff that had, but it should have been expanded as it is arguably the one of the biggest chapters in AKoC.
There are some huge scenes in SoS they need to nail (Dany getting the Unsullied, Red Wedding, The march on Meereen, Mountain/Viper, etc.) and after season 1 I wasn’t worried, but now I have a little apprehension.
JoeQuote Reply
For me one problem this season was certain lack of coordination (uniformity) between episodes (writers, directors,) but I have to watch it again to compare with season 1. On a first impression the writing was what I found most weak (nothing to do with changes though): I liked it in a few episodes, in others not so much and some I didn´t like it at all.
The cast of this series is almost perfect but there were some problems with actor´s direction imo (very little though). On the other hand, L. Headey´s performance this season was amazing.
The cinematography was way better and that made the locations even more beautiful. (there´s still some dark shots but my tv sucks, so could be that too?)
And this:
“Next season, I would like to see the writers spend more time on the stories where there is more material. And not to be afraid of skipping major characters storylines in some episodes, if there isn’t something new or interesting the audience will learn.”
I don´t know yet if I like this season more than the previous one but you…
have said it perfectly.
andreaQuote Reply
Great review, agree on all points. To be fair it was a slightly uneven season, since it was based on an uneven book. Oddly the show excelled the books in some parts, but stumbled in others.
Still, the best damn show on Tv, and worthy of an Emmy IMO.
Omar BrownQuote Reply
Joe,
Joe, you might wanna spoiler tag the last part of your post! Spoilers!
Omar BrownQuote Reply
darquemode,
I wasn’t bothered by the daytime aspect of the White Walkers scene, because they brought the fog/blizzard with them. As soon as the horn was blown, the cold winds started rising, and within seconds there was a total whiteout. Poor Sam turning around in circles, getting totally disoriented. The music… the eerie, surreal whiteout… the dim silhouetted figures approaching through the blizzard. I loved it!
As for the Other ignoring Sam, that didn’t bother me either. My thoughts were that it basically saw Sam as an insignificant insect. The White Walker couldn’t be bothered to attack him directly. It realized Sam is doomed (i.e. the approaching horde of wights), and moved on. Made sense to me.
LexQuote Reply
I think you misinterpreted that scene, the main reason it was more ambiguous than in the book is because we weren’t inside Jon’s head, although we did miss the conversation where Qhorin explicitly spells out the instructions. The end result is the same, even if it’s a little less clear to the viewer.
Steven SwansonQuote Reply
As for the Qhorin stuff… like I said above, it was a little better on a rapid re-watch, without the weeks of waiting in between.
Episode 5 and 6 actually have a fair bit of dialogue from Qhorin.
The problem is that he disappears in Episode 7, and we only see him briefly in Episode 8. Both Jon and Qhorin disappear again in Episode 9, only to have their quick resolution in Episode 10.
When you watch these episodes back to back, over a couple days, it’s not so bad. But watching them as they aired, well… we basically forgot about Qhorin for nearly FOUR WEEKS, before the rushed resolution. IMO, that’s part of why it fell so flat.
Also, Qhorin’s motivation for fighting Jon isn’t quite as confusing as it seemed on the first watch. He does explain his plan to Jon, although VERY quickly. He also intervenes when he sees Jon starting to fight with Ygritte (possibly saving Jon’s life in the process), and he has a pretty bad-ass moment when he steals one of the wildling’s swords, cuts the rope leash that Rattleshirt is holding, bodychecks Rattleshirt (and could easily have killed him, had he chosen to), and attacks Jon.
LexQuote Reply
Macha,
I think it was deliberate for the very reason you mention, but I agree they missed the mark. I think there should have been a happy medium of “battle mode” and romance.
That’s why I think the book plot makes so much more sense….. ESPECIALLY when you combine that with D&D not revealing Bran an Rickon’s ‘death’ to Robb and Catelyn. I think that inofrmation (or misinformation) was integral to Robb and Catelyn’s decisons in Clash of Kings. Without that I have a much harder time believing Catelyn releasing Jaime and Robb marrying Talisa.
Maybe D&D are going somewhere with NOT having Robb and Catelyn know about the boy’s ‘deaths’, but I surely do not see it being some big payoff.
darquemodeQuote Reply
I am planning to rewatch the S2 over the week-end. So, maybe my reaction would be a bit different then this one.
My first reactions are very similar to Winters. I was enjoying the whole season very much, keeping always in mind the transitional nature of original source.
The improvement on the techniacal side of things like cinematography and so was obvious and I liked it a lot.
I am looking forward to S3!
(and now going back to #Euro 2012 !…)
The RabbitQuote Reply
I pretty much agree with this. ACOK is problematic to adapt for several reasons, one of the major ones being pretty obvious (Jon and Dany not really doing much/Robb being offscreen and not PoV). I thought the season was still very enjoyable, both as an ASOIAF fan and a TV viewer in general.
The cast and casting on this show is just incredible as well.
LordStarkingtonQuote Reply
This is true. They nailed Ned’s execution last year, and they nailed Blackwater… but this season did show me that it IS possible for the producers to fumble some key scenes (Jon/Qhorin, HoTu). Let’s hope they don’t fumble the key scenes next year.
LexQuote Reply
It’s funny that the writing seems to be the major complaint. If you’d asked me what I was most worried about, before Season 2 aired, I’d have said the CGI special effects. But I haven’t heard anyone complaining about the Blackwater, the dragons, or the direwolves (the latter needed more screen time, that’s my only complaint).
It’s a shame that the writing suffered, when everything else (acting, effects, cinematogrpahy) was a step up from last year. Let’s hope that D & D listen to this criticism of the writing, and take it to heart, and that it’s not too late to improve on the screenplays for Season 3.
LexQuote Reply
Lex,
That’s true and I think that is what they were going for.
I just feel that if they came bring the fog, storms and darkness with them why can’t the Others come out except during the longest, darkest and coldest Winters?
I can maybe accept your explination of the White Walker ignoring Sam because he is a pathetic non-threat in his opinion.
I guess it felt less organic to me and a bit contrived compared to the books. It was far more dramatic admittedly. I do think that it would have been even more dramatic if they had made it at night and it would have kept true to the story.
It was another example of a change that did not need to be changed and there was no actual bennefit to the change in my eyes. To me it feels sloppy when they just ignore the ‘reality’ of the books without an obvious reason like have done numerous times in regards to the mythos of the books or character’s religion etc.
darquemodeQuote Reply
LIKE
1. The Acting
As we’ve all come to expect from the show, the acting this season was on point. Whether it was Tyrion and Cersei throwing threats back and forth, Davos and Stannis discussing honor, or Maester Luwin giving advice to Theon, there were some amazing and memorable character interactions this season. I really don’t have complaints about anyone not pulling their weight on the cast. Each actor transformed themselves into the character and that is always refreshing to see.
2. Blackwater
EPIC. Need I say more? From the onset of the episode seeing Stannis’ ships entering the bay against the black sky, the episode had the feel of a summer blockbuster film. I have seen few movies as visually and emotionally charged as that hour of television. And it wasn’t just the wildfire explosion that did it. Tyrion’s speech and all of Cersei’s scenes really got me in touch with the emotions of everyone involved. The fact that the episode focused entirely on King’s landing really helped out too in my opinion.
3. Theon’s Storyline
Obviously, I am biased because Theon is my favorite character from the series, but I thought Alfie Allen may have done the best acting job this season. Obviously, season one didn’t give provide us with much Theon, but season 2 more than made up for it. I know a lot of people hate Theon almost as much as they hate Joffrey. But the way Alfied portrayed him, I couldn’t help but sympathize with his situation. One of the most conflicted characters I have ever encountered in all the TV series and movies I have watched.
4. Scenery
The scenery for this season was truly stunning. Pyke stands out to me as the most visually striking, but all of the stuff north of the wall, King’s landing, Qarth, Harrenhall, Dragonstone, and the Red Waste all stick out too. This made the show seem very movie-like. The story obviously distracts from the beauty of some of the locations, but if you take the time to appreciate it, it is amazing.
5. Harrenhall Storyline
Tywin and Arya’s interactions this season were incredible. I felt all of the characters in Harrenhall were done quite nicely from Hot Pie to Jaquen. Add to that the dark scenery and you have a memorable story arc that will stand out when I look back on the series.
6. King’s Landing
See above discussion of Harrenhall haha. Cersei and Tyrion, who may be the two best acted characters on the show, sharing scenes together makes for great TV. Bronn and Tyrion’s dynamic together is also incredible, and the comic relief they provide is always a great touch. I know we all hate Joffrey, and that is all thanks to Jack Gleeson. What a fantastic job.
7. Stannis/Davos
2 new characters who I came to really like. Both actors were incredible, and the scene where Stannis tells Davos he means to name him hand when he takes King’s Landing was up there with my favorites of the season/series. I can’t wait to hopefully see more of these two in Season 3!
DISLIKE
1. Jon’s Story
Nothing against Kit Harrington, but I just thought Jon’s story this season was lame and drawn out. As others have said here, the writers stretched out a plot for a season, that could have been done in a couple of scenes. The resolution of Jon/Qhorin felt cheap as well. I feel they really could have given both actors a few scenes together discussing honor, duty, etc. and that really would have made the final scene more emotional and given them a chance to really shine.
2. Dany’s Story
Same as Jon’s, I just felt Dany got lost in Qarth with not much to do, and since she is a main character, they felt she needed to be in every episode, when she didn’t. Each week the same dialogue would occur and it just went from sounding badass to sounding whiny. The stealing of the dragons was awesome, but even that was diminished with a few unnecessary scenes where she bitched to Jorah like it was his fault. Her story in the finale was awesome, but was overshadowed for me by the lacklusterness of the rest of the season.
3. Lack of other member’s of the Night’s Watch
I really missed Sam, Grenn, Pyp(who wasn’t show at all this season I don’t think?), Edd, and the Old bear towards the end of the season. I realize there probably wasn’t much to show of them, but still. It was just weird how their screen time diminished that much.
4. Robb’s story
Another storyline complaint, sorry. I just felt Robb got portrayed much differently than he was supposed to be. He is leading a huge army, and has never lost a battle. He should be tough, smart, and mature. However, he did not appear that way. I understand Catelyn did something stupid, but Robb’s response to her seemed very immature. His fling with Talysa was also handled like he was some love stricken schoolboy. Unless that is how he is in the books, it just seems like a departure from the Robb they showed us in season 1 and early season 2.
5. Choppy/Rushed episode pacing
My biggest gripe. I was very perplexed with this season’s pacing. At times, I felt really bored with the show. I remember specifically the first few episodes were very slow. The way they advertised the whole “War is coming” motto had me all fired up at the beginning of the season, and it just felt like a dud to me. I’m sure I will appreciate them more as I rewatch the season for a second time, but as of now, that is how I remember it. At other times though, the show was rushed. It seemed like whenever a climax was reached it was rushed, but all the rising action was slow as death. Hence, the pacing was just all over the place and it kind’ve gave the season a weird feel.
Overall, I still really enjoyed the season. I would rate it a 8/10, whereas I would rate season 1 a 9.5/10. The pacing and decision to give extended screen time to characters who were really just doing nothing are what irked me the most.
Theon Rules!Quote Reply
Lex,
This.
I too was worried about more dragons and Direwolves and the Battle of Blackwater. The VFX for all three were surprisingly good even considering the high placement of the bar from last season’s VFX!
darquemodeQuote Reply
To be honest, i can totally understand why they focused on Ygritte instead of Qhorin. The Halfhand is a cool character, but we only see him for a few chapters, and so his interactions with Jon arent that major. Were going to have to spend an entire season with Ygritte and Jon, and that relationship needs to be developed much more than it was in the books. As it is, I can already understand the relationship better than I ever did in the books. Jon growing close to a wildling also has much further reaching implications in later books than anything that happened between him and Qhorin, aside from their final fight. That is, to me, why the focus was shifted to Ygritte. When time is so precious, they need to focus on longer term relationships, not short-lived-but-cool characters.
AndrewQuote Reply
The BLAH podcast episode 10 deals with season 2 as well:
http://boiledleather.com/post/24898033601/the-boiled-leather-audio-hour-episode-10
Stefan SasseQuote Reply
A woman forgot to thank you Phil, for the S2 recap and all your hard work on the site. You are a gem. Your recap also hit some of the small criticisms I had with the S2 overall, but the good far outweighed the occasional mis-steps IMO. If it were a perfect world, perhaps we would have seen Robb in battle, Jaqen in a bathtub, more direwolves, more visions in the HOTU, more time to develop Qorin’s story, and some huge undead creatures. And more Hot Pie! However, with the time allotted, much excellence was displayed. There were genius performances by several cast members, with Maisie W./Arya and Alfie A./Theon giving serious competition to Peter D./Tyrion in the “who owned this season” category. Sophie T./Sansa expressed more with a glance than many veteran actors could in a soliloquy. Stephan D./Stannis also spoke with his face so much…the determination, the righteousness – genius. Among the minor characters, Tom W./Jaqen and Gwen C./Brienne stood out as WAY better than anybody probably imagined, lifting their characters into the “can’t wait to see again” category. Who did not get captivated by Jaqen’s mysterious cool, and Brienne’s awkward but lethal presence? Roy D./Hallyne was delightful in his few scenes, really nailing the excitement of a veteran pyromancer. And Ron D./Sir Rodrick…dude, way to go out with a bang (or whack, or kick), so moving. A woman could go on all day with favorite moments. And has decided to concentrate on the good rather than dwelling on the few disappointments in the season.
Regarding the mis-steps, a woman does wonder how much of the inconsistency can be attributed to the fact that there is a team of writers with each taking on separate episodes rather than one writing person/team overall? When many fans have agreed on the favorite episodes, perhaps those writers should be writing MORE episodes (talking to you Bryan Cogman)? Overall the writing is good, so a woman won’t nitpick. But MORE COGMAN writing PLEASE!
Could we do a “TOP 3″ favorite episodes of S2 poll? Mine would be:
1. Blackwater
2. What Is Dead May Never Die
3. (tie) The Ghost of Harrenhal and Valar Morghulis
Time to go watch the whole season again, a woman might change her mind on the top 3 after.
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Good idea!
My Top 5 are probably:
1. Ep 9 – Blackwater
2. Ep 10 – Valar Morghulis
3. Ep 3 – What is Dead May Never Die
4. Ep 6 – The Old Gods and the New
5. Tie between Ep 4 – Garden of Bones, and Ep 5 – The Ghost of Harrenhal
LexQuote Reply
Huh! Agree with the first 4, maybe even the tie in 5th – apart from 9, 10, 3 and 6, they’re all about equally good.
sjweningsQuote Reply
Don’t get too far ahead of yourselves with ranking the episodes as next week we are going to kick off our WiCnet Awards for season two and the first category is best episode. There will be plenty of space to discuss your favorite eps there. :)
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
I think filming in Iceland might have played a big part in this. Sure, we could argue that this particular scene could have been staged at night while using a different location (i.e. Belfast). I’m guessing they wanted to make the most of the icelandic landscape – which was stunning, by the way – also, I’m not sure that the ice storm/mist that came with the WW would have been visible in a darker setting. But hey, I’m just searching for a reasonable explanation because I too felt that scene could have used a little subtlety. God, I can’t wait for the DVD to come out, I love hearing their takes in general, but they sure left me wondering about a lot of things this season.
MachaQuote Reply
Just warming up for the WiCnet Awards!!!
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
This is an interesting take, one with which I agree. I guess it’s natural for book readers to want more of Qhorin, he’s one cool character. *I* would have wanted more, I loved him as a character and I thought Simon Armstrong did great work. But from a non-reader perspective, he has served his purpose, and to have him serve as a mentor even further to Jon would have made their relationship a bit redundant in my opinion – first Benjen, then Mormont, now Qhorin. If it’s one thing I’m glad about though, it’s that we’ve got Rose Leslie as Ygritte. Because a lot could have gone wrong in that department. Hmm, will I ever tire of praising this cast (and Nina Gold for rounding up all this talent)? Probably not. :)
MachaQuote Reply
One thing that’s not frequently mentioned regarding Qorin is the scene where they attack the wildling scouts and he asks Ygritte what would happen to him if he was captured by Mance. This foreshadowed Qorin’s death, and helps make his plan sensible. Qorin knew he’d be killed, so getting Jon to kill him before they reached Mance served TWO purposes…getting Jon to be accepted as a NW deserter AND giving Qorin a clean and quick death. Yes, a woman would have loved to hear Qorin say “Is your blade sharp?” but we can’t have everything. Adding Qorin’s last words as part of the pledge…that made up for a lot IMO.
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Only one tiny little thing to add: they did a lot more night shoots this season.
Not TodayQuote Reply
Mrs. H’ghar,
Ugh, I’ve been wanting to ask you guys something about that scene since it aired and I keep forgetting – and you’re perfectly right, it does stand out instantly – which is: why did Qhorin touch her neck in that manner? At first I thought he wanted to check her pulse, to see if she’s lying maybe, but then again his gloves were pretty thick, could that still be plausible? Sorry if this has been addressed already in the episode recap thread, it’s just that I’ve been trying to avoid those as much as possible, and this keeps bugging me. :) So thanks in advance for any clarification.
PS: While we didn’t get the ‘Is your blade sharp?‘, we got ‘We are the watchers on the wall‘ with an excellent delivery IMO, so ultimately I’m more than satisfied.
MachaQuote Reply
Hey Macha, this woman does not know why he touched her neck, maybe it was a control the prisoner/intimidation thing? Your PS echoed my last sentence…we agree that the “We are the watchers on the wall” helped the scene and made up for the other lost line.
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Vanderhook,
So fucking stupid. In any case, season two was awesome, changes and all. I’ve mentioned it before, but I watch the show with two fairly large groups of non-readers, and the general consensus is that season two was on par or better than the first. Anecdotal evidence, for the win! But seriously, as my friend so eloquently stated: “You know shit is gonna’ go down when the first episode of the season ends with some mass child-killing.” Too true, too true. Episode rankings to date…
The Wolf & The Lion
What Is Dead May Never Die
Baelor
Blackwater
Valar Morghulis
A Golden Crown
The Old Gods & the New
You Win Or You Die
Winter Is Coming
The North Remembers
The Ghost of Harrenhal
The Pointy End
Fire & Blood
Garden of Bones
Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things
The Kingsroad
The Nightlands
Lord Snow
A Man Without Honor
The Prince of Winterfell
Pastor_of_MuppetsQuote Reply
As much as I liked Blackwater, I think The Pacific has a couple of more epic battles. Anyway, agreed with most of the review.
Pablo JainagaQuote Reply
season 2 was everything i could have hope for and better,hurry up season 3,,king of the north!!!!!
young starkQuote Reply
season 2 was so great. my favourite storylines were dany’s, tyrion’s and everything in kins landing. robb and talisa weren’t so bad, but jon’s storyline was poor, like you all said. too less time for him :(
but all in all i loved season 2 and can’t wait for season 3!!!
TinaQuote Reply
Mrs. H’ghar,
I second this. It will be the best you thing you ever did since starting the Song of Ice and Fire series :)
andyQuote Reply
Long time lurker, first time posting anything…
S1, S2: best 2 seasons of TV I have ever seen. Now, there are always some issues with the book-to-TV conversions, and some things that I would have prefered they didn’t change, or did differently, but, overall TV doesn’t get any better. I just finished reading aFfC and am poised to start Dwd, but I wanted to take a moment to give my impression of S2.
Arya/Tywin: was that not an amazing combination? There is no way they could have known HOW well Williams and Dance would work together last season, D&D must have pinched themselves when they realized the gold they struck putting those 2 together. In fact, not to be heretical, but I liked that Arya storyline as much as the one in the book. The Tywin character has to be one of the most interesting and complex characters.
Littlefinger: The way he popped up all over the known universe helped glue some of the disparate aspects of the plot together early in the season, but I found that a little odd. I wonder if the non-book readers have any idea just how central his character comes to the story. And one of the best aspects of GRRM’s writing: anyone can die, anyone can influence, etc.
The Mountain: I hate to say this but the actor that plays The Mountain part deux is too skinny and just not massive enough. Yes, he is tall, but like BB player tall. I prefered the original Mountain, and I feel bad saying that b/c the guy that currently plays the Mountain has been nearly universally panned. Too bad. I do wonder if they will keep him for season 3 in his Oberyn battle
Dany: I really love the Dany storyline and I didn’t mind D&D making more of her story in ACOK than was in the books. It was just all those temper tantrums, and ‘fire and bloods’, etc. that became almost painful to watch after awhile. Whenever someone would slight her I prepared to hear her rundown of a) who she is b) what she is c) what she does to people who diss her. Enough please. That she lost her dragons initially really rubbed me the wrong way, in the end it worked with the TV version–helped give her more of a motive to enter the House of the Undying.
Qarth/Pyat/Ducksauce: Meh. I liked the Pyat character a lot, but for some reason the whole Qarth story seemed like it was missing something. Since it was SUCH a different place/culture than any other locale, they could have added more to that, beefed it up some. The AWESOME opening credits with the map and all that helped the non-readers, i would assume, get the fact that Qarth is faaaar from Westeros, something about the whole Qarth locale seemed to need more background, more history, more just time being there. I didn’t like the change in Daxos that much. And I wonder how that change in story will be addressed going forward.
The House of the Undying: It worked. Barely.
Jaime: So awesome. The scene were he throttles his cos is so effin’ good. I think they did a masterful job with Jaime, with the writing, acting, direction. Some people questioned the cage killing, but I think it will work out. I have a suspicion that Brienne’s honor will have more of an effect on Jaime in the series than it did in the book–and, possibly, the cage scene alludes to that.
Theon: OMG. When he struggles with the decapitation, his reaction afterwards, his dealings with Balon, his dealings with Yara, his reaction to the horn blowing, etc…. masterful. Alfie Allen stepped up to the plate and hit a grand effin’ slam.
Jon/Quorin: Did non-book readers get it? I did, I understood that Quorin was sacrificing himself, but I wonder if the non’ers did.
My favorites character/Actor successes:
Tyrion
Cersei
Sandor (more hound please )
Tywin
Theon
Sansa
Varys
Bronn
I just realized I am starting to list every single character. I guess that says it all (after I write waaaay too much)
and, ps, thanks site monitor
He Who SlithersQuote Reply
+ Arya & Tywin chats
Good expositions and adding depth to the characters.
+ Death of Amory Lorch
Showing that death scene can be as funny as Tyrion’s jokes.
+ Blackwater
The unity of time and space of action made this episode unique. Effects and scale helped a lot.
+ Brienne of Tarth
Gwendoline Christie wasn’t my first favorite to this role. She is now.
+ Jorah Mormont
Iain Glen made invisible book character visible.
+ CGI
Direwolves and dragons look awesome.
+ Rains of Castamere
The National version has only one defect: it’s too quiet for a mobile ringtone.
+ Theon story
Alfie Allen deserves Emmy in Best Need of Approval category.
- Lack of Old Gods in Kartark’s swearing and Robb’s marrying
For such carelessness writers should visit every con and apologize the fans.
- Iceland
Beautiful sights, but trees are necessary beyond the Wall.
- Lack of Greatjon Umber
His absence as well as sending Theon home and introducing Talisa and Roose Bolton caused some discontinuity in Robb’s camp.
- Qhorin and Jon issue
I think that one more sentence would be enough to clarify Qhorin intentions.
- Sandor Clegane
Why Conan Stevens? Why?
- Stannis, Melisandre & Painted Table
To much passion looks bad on Stannis.
- Yara Greyjoy
Gemma Whelan wasn’t bad. But her Yara wasn’t Asha.
I am sure there will be a lot of pros and cons after I post this comment.
Overall I think that this season was better than the first one. My thanks go to D&D for keeping the spirit of ASoIaF even when they make changes in the story.
GrzebykKQuote Reply
And not to be afraid of skipping major characters storylines in some episodes, if there isn’t something new or interesting the audience will learn.
This!
As I said in another thread, I’d rather get two really good scenes with a character than six average ones.
I guess it’s hard when you know an actor personally and think they’re talented but they need to have more faith in the audience and not assume we have ADD. We’re playing the long game too. Adding material just to keep someone onscreen damages both the overall story and the specific character.
msdQuote Reply
Except for the Jon and Quorin story line I really enjoyed this series. The final scene with Jon and Ygritte looking down on the wildling camp had me going “Holy shit! That’s huge!” I don’t agree with the take of arya’s story being stretched, her scenes with Tywin were some of the most amazing this series. All in all I loved it. Have just one complaint about the scale of epicness. Winterfell is capital of the north but only twenty people live there? Other than that the overall feel was huge! My goodness has there been a step up in the costume design this season.
I also think Nina Gold deserves a pulitser or an emmy or a fucking nobel prize for her amazing casting abilities. I find myself reading the book and using the likenesses and voices of the characters, in my mind they’ve become inseparable.
Cannot wait for season 3!
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
GrzebykK,
You mean Gregor Clegane. Sandor is the Hound and he was bloody awesome this season, can’t wait for him to meet a certain little girl. But yeah agree, Ian Whyte was way too skinny for the mountain.
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
I just created a post about the Bush head thing and moved all discussion to that thread. If you wish to discuss it further, please do so over there.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled Game of Thrones discussion!
Winter Is ComingQuote Reply
OK my rant:
No, kidding. Although I liked Season One better, this season had many huge moments as well.
Cersei and Tommen on the Iron Throne in ep09 was one of the greatest TV scenes ever for me.
Alfie Allen was awesome as well, how they handled winterfell overall worked quite well for this season, but I see some problems for next season (big changes in store next season? Why did they kill the ravens??)
True, Maisie Williams and Charles Dance do a perfect job, and I liked seeing more of Tywin, but honestly I didn´t like the Harrenhall scenes very much. Arya should have killed a guy and Roose should have been leeched (maybe he will be later though). And Please get Conan Stevens back in time or any other mountain who is heavier than 150 pounds.
I didn´t buy Brienne at first,thought she was too old, but she had great moments too, and when shes fighting she´s huge anyway.
Melisandre and Stannis I liked a lot, eg their final scene was good, the Cressen poison scene was terrific, only the sex scene I think was a stain on their greatness.
So many of the smaller roles did really shine again, I´d like to mention Varys and Pycelle especially.
Using Roz as Alayaya replacement made sense, some of the Roz scenes were quite ok, (wth Theon in s1 for example), but I wouldnt mind not seeing her in s3 (even though she is gorgeous).
I under stand they wanted to show something of Robb´s romance, explain a little better than in the books, why he betrayed his allies. But I was not really convinced by Talisha. Maybe if she turns out to be something more than the sexy witty nurse that loves him truly for no reason…. But I somehow doubt that..
I Agree the Dany Scenes were not so great, but they were a little more exciting and only slightly less logical than her chapters in the book. The “visions” were nicely done, the stuff with the chains not really. But the warlock looked really cool.
What I didn´t like was that so much time was spend with scenes that do nothing but hammer in what´s well established or should even be kept in the dark (Joff is a dick/LF is evil incarnate respectively).
Design and CGI was very good and when the wights and white walkers presented themselves in obscenely beautiful closeups they shoved an icy fist right down my bitching throat.
Thanks a lot for this season!
Baldyr BlüetoothQuote Reply
Oddly enough, my single biggest complaint was the dragonfire. After seeing the awesomeness of the blackwater wildfire, which despite it’s fantastical green nature still looked “right”, the flames coming out of those pipsqueak lizards was WAY too much volume for their size.
Wildfire had already been set up to be particularly hard to deal with, why not just go with small gouts more reasonable for a critter of that size that caused fires that just wouldn’t go out?
If I squeezed and open water balloon and got that kind of output from the water stream, it would look like it came from a fire hydrant hose. It’s just not reasonable.
Critical GeekQuote Reply
Critical Geek,
Speaking of dragonfire, I’m re-reading ADWD, and I totally forgot… the fire is supposed to match the colour of the dragons! Drogon is supposed to breathe black fire with hints of red. Rhaegal’s fire would be green and bronze, and Viserion’s fire would be gold and white. That would have been awesome, but not a big deal…
LexQuote Reply
Lex,
Wow thank you for pointing something out to me that I for some or other reason completely missed in the books. That would indeed look awesome!
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
Critical Geek,
I agree! These little babies were in full flamethrower mode, it looked so ridiculous. Ripley could just carry around a delightfully cute baby dragon.
MegQuote Reply
Here here!
Mrs. H’gharQuote Reply
Aegon the Conqueror,
I actually can’t recall if the dragonfire was multicoloured in Book 2 or 3, but definitely in Book 5.
LexQuote Reply
You know what might be nice? Bumping this thread up, ahead of the ridiculous Bush thread, so we can get some more thoughts on the actual show.
LexQuote Reply
Andrew,
Good point… but imagine if they’d been able to give both Ygritte and Qhorin an equal, balanced amount of time. I think it would have made Jon’s killing of Qhorin so much more powerful.
LexQuote Reply
Pastor_of_Muppets,
Concur – the non book readers that I have talked to seem to like S2 MORE than S1.
patchy faceQuote Reply
Lex,
Yes, I just got on, and I was kind of surprised to see it there. I don’t even want to waste my time reading that stuff. I guess people have to talk it out so it will go away, but I hope it happens soon!
My thoughts on season 2? I think they writers had a much harder job adapting this book than the first, the first is pretty much mostly Stark stuff. Book two adds tons of new characters and plots. And it’s only going to get more difficult! It will be curious to see how they manage the third, where so much stuff happens (and still, more characters!) I wish them luck and I can’t wait to see it! Also people have commented on Robb’s character, I agree, it was a little detached season two. But I remember in the books he was the only Stark that was not a narrarator…(except for the real little brother) Am I wrong? I always wondered why that was…
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
Having just re-watched Season 1, I was surprised at how… slow it is.
It has the feeling of a slow-burn detective mystery (Detective Ned Stark), and even that plotline doesn’t really get going until Episode 4 or 5.
Nothing wrong with being slow, I’m just pointing it out. Season 2 was a lot more exciting, IMO.
LexQuote Reply
Also, I hope George R. R. Martin will write some more episodes next season… I’m sure he will! I always loved the watch the episodes that he wrote. I hope he takes more time to finish book six though…. lol
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
Bonnie Blue,
He’s writing Episode 7 next year.
LexQuote Reply
So are we assuming episode 7 equals RW? If so, I’m pleased George is the one tackling it.
msdQuote Reply
msd,
Not sure. It’s tentatively titled “Autumn Storms”.
LexQuote Reply
How many episodes did he write for season one? One or two?
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
Bonnie Blue,
One episode; “The Pointy End”. I’d imagine he’ll stick to one episode per season. “Autumn Storms” sounds like it might be the episode that immediately proceeds a killer party.
Pastor_of_MuppetsQuote Reply
Thanks WiC for a great Season 3 Recap. This is my 2nd attempt to post as I used
the Delete button instead of Enter ( Ugh! I had to take a 2hr break afterwards ):
Earlier Lex , Mrs H’ghar and darquemode mirrored my thoughts but I’m sure many
more recollected interesting acting moments as well.
I agree with the visual field and landscape lending to the grandiosity effect, that
spoke volumes. Most agree that the script was incongruous at times ( esp Robb
and Catelyn / Jon & Qhorin/ Danerys ). I’d like to add Stannis and Mel to that list.
*Whatever the viewers felt about Stannis was further complicated by his open admission
to killing Renley. There was no mystery left as in the books and could backfire for any
sympathy towards his cause. I would bet B&W got some extra filming done in Iceland
and (?) elsewhere to flesh out any rushed moments that would be allowed to evolve
in S3 episode 1. We may have a flashback of Robb in battle, the missed words whispered
to Jon by Qhorin and Ramsay with his Northmen thugs approach Winterfell. Hell I
wouldn’t mind a Ned flashback teaching Robb what it means to be a leader. These
should only take a minute and possibly inserted anywhere. Poetic license with the
storyline is fine as long as it doesn’t require ongoing explanation or alterations.
*The worst moments for me were : Sex Sadist Joffrey/ Littlefinger the Teleport / Captain
America Dontos / repeated use of the word ” cunt ” where “craven” would suffice. The
best thing about the city of Qarth with all it’s beauty was the introduction of Quaithe.
Danerys’s journey will continue to have cinematic highs as well as Jon and Arya but
let’s not get carried away. A few less showy scenes and more cheaper spoken ones…
with the exemption of Warg dreams, where’s Ghost when you need him anyway.
This was a great season overall and still worth all the hype for S3.
WildSeedQuote Reply
Pastor_of_Muppets,
Yes, I hope if it is that episode that he will write it. I imagine if there is an episode he would like to write it would be that one! Can’t wait
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
WildSeed,
I agree with most of what you said! I liked Stannis better toward the end of the season, I liked the scene where his men had to pull him away from the battle. Highlights for me last season: Tyrion realizing that he will have to lead the attack during Blackwater, Arya and Jaquen, and Cersai’s scenes in the blackwater episode where you kind of (finally) learn why she is the way she is. I think that was my favorite episode of the season. I absolutely cannot wait to see Ramsay! And Alfie was so great this year, he really “gets” the character of Theon…
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
I assumed George’s ep was the you-know-what but with that title, who knows. D&D may want to do it themselves (ep 8?) since they’ve mentioned a particular scene in book 3 being a major motivation for doing the show.
Also, he’s contracted to write one episode per season but I don’t think he gets to pick the part of the story he wants to write. I recall him saying D&D “gave” him Blackwater to write rather than him actually choosing it.
msdQuote Reply
Don’t forget, GRRM didn’t enjoy writing the RW in the books! He said he left it until the end, because he dreaded it.
LexQuote Reply
Lex,
Wow, it’s getting ugly over in the other post GW head. I’m outta there! That’s interesting to know about George R.R. being contracted to write one episode per season, I didn’t know that. Seems to me that the creators and George R.R. have a lot of respect for each other, I wonder how they decide which episode he will write (if he has a say in it or not, or if they just give him one). Either way, I look forward to that episode, no one knows these character better than George! By the way and off the subject anyone knows what happens to Gendry? He kind of goes MIA and we don’t hear much from him much in the later books…?
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
Lex,
Good point. I’d like to see him write it but it’s sounding more and more like his ep will involve events before that takes place.
Oh and I agree about S1 being slow in retrospect. I liked the slow build and I think it was very effective over the whole season, which was paced better overall than S2. Once you’ve sped things up, though, it’s really hard to slow them down again, unfortunately.
msdQuote Reply
Bonnie Blue,
Alfie Allen deserves an award , he morphed into Theon’s character. The acting was
standout, first rate. I enjoyed his moments with Balon, Asha and maester Luwin.
Couldn’t help shed a tear because I’ve only had Reek in my memories as of late.
What did you think of Stannis’s admission and choking Mel?
WildSeedQuote Reply
WildSeed,
I liked it, his character, even in the books, was so impersonal, I think that gave him some human characteristics. It was never clear to me exactly if he bought into Mels crazy religious crap, or if he just went along with it because it seemed to be getting him results. In the books his wife was the one who was really convinced. I could never get a grasp on what his true feelings were about that stuff… so that scene kind of made it make sense to me a bit…
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
I just saw an editing (at HBO) that sums up season 2 just great. (Is for the retransmission)
andreaQuote Reply
andrea,
I saw that too. I hope HBO has some sort of Game of Thrones specials over the summer… Just interviews with the actors or whatnot…. Just something to tide us over until season three!
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
Bonnie Blue,
Stick around on this blog I think you’ll like what´s coming.
andreaQuote Reply
andrea,
This is only my third day on here, and I like it so far! It’s fun to discuss the show and books with people
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
On the whole, season 2 was exceptional, completely entertaining and that’s the point, isn’t it? It was visually stunning and the acting can’t be matched on any show I’ve seen. Even Mad Men has its blonde zombie. Nina Gold and Robert Stearns have delivered actors who generally look the part but can also act their pants off (no pun intended).
Although I was a bit frustrated by the redundancy of Dany’s scenes during the middle episodes, I believe the choices made for the HotU made lots of sense. The cost and the foreshadowing, if not outright spoilage, that would result in a book-rendition of that scene were huge obstacles in filming.
Instead of filling Dany with dioramas both historically cryptic or prophetically hideous, D&D chose to answer the question that should have been raised in the book – why were the warlocks so interested in Dany, and granted that, how were they prepared to imprison her? While there might have been some prophecy in the charred roof over the snowy floor of the throne room, the Temptation of Dany was perfectly played, and I choked right up to see Drogo and little Rhaego. The screenplay furthered Dany’s growth as a woman and as a ruler when she kept her loyalty to her actual “children”. The choices made turned a cryptic horror show into a logical lesson for Dany.
So many of the actors are such a joy to watch – Peter and Maisie and Charles Dance and Alfie and NCW (cooly handsome even when filthy) and Jack Gleeson (freaking terrific!) and Tom W. (hope he makes an encore) and the lovely Sophie. Her scenes with Lena and Sybil were interjected perfectly to relieve tension while causing it.
Along with everyone else, I’m falling in love with series Shae. She seems genuinely in love with Tyrion, a stalwart champion rather than the vapid little bimbo of the books. I’m wondering if this choice to change her character will affect the denouement of her story arc, and perhaps lead to her death by Tywin turning Tyrion into the crazed assassin he becomes. It would make his actions more understandable. Also, Sybil is angelically beautiful in her closeups.
I find myself caring little about Robb’s story, and hoping that Jon is treated with more respect next season. Looking forward to meeting Mance.
The atmosphere created by the production designers is epic and wonderful! Kudos to them and the costume designer for visual awesomeness!
And the music composed for the series has if anything, improved from last year, grounding the action, making the viewing a visceral activity. The Rains of Castamere was a drinking song sung as a dirge depending on the need. Really brilliant! It’s become an earworm that crawls somberly through my mind.
I’ve decided, like many others, to treat the series as an adaptation of source material, because that’s exactly what it is – not a perfect rendering of a huge saga many hundreds of pages long. Makes the viewing less taxing for me. I enjoy them each on their own level with their requisite limitations.
I’m so pleased to hear D&D have signed on for a couple more years. My fear was that they would suffer burn out after a couple of seasons and hand the reins to some lesser gods. I wonder how they have time for their families. Their passion and genius is what drives this fabulous bus. Theirs and GRRM’s. I’m happy to wait for another extraordinary season. Perfection is no accident, after all. (Profound, eh?)
Arya DunyettQuote Reply
Overall I loved this season. 4.5/5 maybe?
I am disappointed about how they nerfed Jon Snow’s storyline. I think it was one of the best parts of A Clash of Kings. Ultimately I think that’s my biggest complaint about this season. Jon Snow seems to be a weaker character for it. I wonder how they’re going to portray his rise to Lord Commander of the Nights Watch with a significant portion of his badassery cut from the show. No complaints about Kit Harrington or Simon Armstrong by any means – they acted very well with the material they were given.
Stannis, Melisandre, and Davos were all very well cast and I can’t wait for more from all 3.
Everything with Renly remains a highlight for the season. Props to Gethin Anthony. I hope they have him do a commentary for the blu-ray. Renly, Margeary, Loras, Brienne… everything about their parts in eps. 3-5 was fantastic.
Dany’s storyline… I’m more ok with the changes to her story than I was when they dragons were first stolen. I just wish they could have done the House of the Undying in episode 8 or so… with everything happening in the episodes in between it seems like Dany waits like 2 months to try and get her dragons back. Loved her scene with the Iron Throne, loved the Khal Drogo scene. I didn’t mind the changes to Xaro and Pyat Pree. I’m really looking forward to Dany meeting Ser Barristan in S3!
Enjoyed everything with Tyrion of course. I wish they could have done a little more to stress how key he was to the victory at Blackwater. Shae annoyed me early in the season but towards the end she was much more likeable.
No complaints about Robb & Talisa from me though I don’t understand why they can’t just call her Jeyne. I think the expansion of his story and the relationship with Talisa was great for the season.
Jamie… just perfect. The seen with Cleos is another favorite for the season
Blackwater… Best episode of TV I’ve seen, EVER! I think Game of Thrones deserves to clean house this awards season.
A few minor complaints… I was crushed when they didn’t have the Peach in episode 4. I’m getting over that now I suppose. I missed the chain but that’s minor compaired to the awesomness that was Blackwater. There should have been some scenes to establish Stannis leaving Dragonstone. On that note, maybe we’ll see Littlefinger boarding his learjet in a deleted scene or something.
IcebirdQuote Reply
Theon – Not enough can be stated of how incredible Alfie Allen was this season. Hope he finds himself at a point where he will get a award for lesser performance. Dues are being paid.
Theon did many horrible acts yet felt sorrow for him.
Tyrion: Do not fight for your King, fight for the Half-man! Peter Dinklage is just… is just great.
Dearney: Emilia Clark did a fine job of handling the reversion of the character a bit. She really is going back in many ways and she has too take control. She did and the result is a Krispy Pryee.
Tywinn: Charles Dance brings great gravitas. He is a kindly grandpa that will wipe out your whole family.
Jon Snow: Kit Harrington did a lot without much time overall it felt. Jon had to deal with following orders that violate his sense of morality, having his sense of duty mocked and criticize, and has his vows and honor comely challenge. When Snow runned Half-Hand through, he knows world is not black/white but these are still constant through the greys.
Ygritte: I love you Rose Leslie. The wiggle was nice but the bops on the head sealed it. Ygritte was free and purposeful even when bounded up.
Sansa: Sophie Turner is just doing a beautiful job. The scene with Joffrey in Blackwater was a masterwork. From touchingly kissing the sword as a perfect lady should to then perfectly shattering Joffrey self-aggrandizing ego while calling herself stupid with a slight valley (to me for some reason)
Joffrey: Jack Glesson does evil douche just pitch perfect. You do just want really horrible things to happen to him. I know there is some award for villains. Sweep everyone
Stannis: Stephen Dillans does hard to work to show a man that will use wants he needs to win without wanting to fully embrace it. He wants to give hard truths to manners and not deal with formality. He will lead out first with certainty of The Truth.
Cersi- Lena Heady just an amazing actress. Able to bring out such sympathy from Cersi is fun to watch. For once you get some empathy for her it is simply clear it means nothing. She will kill all to protect those she loves and then kill them.
Preytt Pree: Ian Hanmore did an outstanding job. He made Pree a very mysterious figure with increasing menace. With magic returning to the world, Pree is no longer some jester of amusement of the other 13, he now has some true magic. His arrogance made him miss the truth that his power from dragons was gone once Daenery rejected the illusions.
LdcftoosQuote Reply
Nice write-up Winter, I agree with most everything you said.
There’s not much in it really between seasons 1 and 2, both are very good tv tranlations of a complicated book story. If anything, I enjoyed season 2 more because of the welcome absence of irritating sexposition scenes. Some problems have remained (like the erratic appearance of direwolves – Ghost in particular), but overall the quality of the dialogue, acting, props, cgi etc has been so fantastic that we should all applaude HBO and everybody working in front and behind the cameras!
The two newcomers to the cast that I enjoyed the most were Stephen Dillane (unexpected – I didn’t know him before) and especially the by myself highly anticipated Liam Cunningham. They are now my favourite actors on the show, together with Sophie Turner, Peter Dinklage, Iain Glenn, Maisie Williams, Isaac HW, NCW, Jack Gleeson, Conleth Hill, Rory McCann, Jerome Flynn, Alfie Allen, and Charles Dance :-)
Btw, now that this year’s season is over, are we going to start the discussion again on how much the child actors will have changed come next season’s filming? ;-)
Edit: one character’s changes that I dislike (besides John/Qhorin) is Petyr Baelish. In the books, he was one of my favourites because of the subtlety in his plotting, but on the show I feel he’s been degraded to a b&w ‘baddy’…
Tar KidhoQuote Reply
Lex,
Well I completely missed that for some reason.
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
I think season 2 is even better than season 1. I am a bigger fan now, at the end of season 2, than I was at the end of S1. And that’s why I have decided to start reading the books this summer, I already bought them and I can’t wait to start (even though I know all the big plot lines of first two books).
Season 2 improved on season 1 because of the bigger scale of the story, because of even better acting, better writing, etc. Also, the directors improved a lot, and thankfully the camera started to move :) In S1, I didn’t really like those still scenes. And I think the pacing is actually better in the second season.
The storyline of every character, except Dany, improved over the first season. Dany’s storyline was really great in the last episode of the season, but before that… not so much. And that’s my only big complaint about the season.
Arya’s scenes were pure gold. Maisie and Charles are great, great actors. Tyrion’s scenes in King’s Landing were perfect as well. I loved those little games they play over there. That’s why I love Varys and Littlefinger so much.
I think the biggest improvement of a character was that of Sansa. From that annoying brat, she turned into one of the most interesting characters. I loved her confrontations with Joffrey, and her smart sarcastic lines.
Jon’s storyline was also great. I love that he’s got his own storyline now. He’s not so tied to the Nights Watch. He is still a crow in his heart but he is alone now with those wildlings and I love it.
There are a lot of great new characters. Margaery, the red woman (I don’t know how her name is spelled exactly), Jaqen, the warlock from Qarth, Ygritte, etc. Jaqen and warlock are dead (although the Faceless Man is not), but I hope we’ll see a lot more of those three great ladies.
I can’t wait for season 3.
New WolfQuote Reply
Glad you’re enjoying Day 3! I’m on Year 3, lol! :)
LexQuote Reply
Ser Balon Swann,
Was thinking about that with Sam as well, but figured theyd prob explain it that he has Dragonglass on him and perhaps they sense that so they leave him alone etc..
ViserionQuote Reply
Every single person who have read the books, as i did, has to thank GOD and HBO on their knees for the way HBO creates this tv-series. It looks fantastic and the storytelling is fantastic. No matter what kind of criticism a man or a woman has! For me, my dream came true, with the quality of this series. No tv network could have done it better. Period. End of story!
BalerionQuote Reply
Thank goodness! Somewhere to relieve the tedium of waiting for S3. Respect to WIC and all the fans who post.
3eyesQuote Reply
Bonnie Blue,
I’m not sure if anyone answered you already, but the way you phrased the question makes me assume you’ve read all the released books, so here it is. Gendry joins up with the Brotherhood without Banners, but I can’t quite recall if he stays with Lady Stoneheart, or goes off with Edric Dayne. He may have been present at Brienne’s ‘trial’ during Feast for Crows.
AndrewQuote Reply
amen, Balerion and thank HBO for the music! I’m off to read AsOs part 2 and have some wolf dreams…
mags giantsbabeQuote Reply
I hope they redeem Jon Snow’s storyline next season, because it sure was weak this season. Daenerys picked up at the end, but the writing for most of her storyline was terribly written, some of the dialogue was cringe worthy.
My favorites this season was Arya, Tyrion and Theon. Great stuff. Overall though I wished they had focused on only a few characters POV’s in each episodes instead of trying to stuff all of them together in each episodes, resulting in some who only got a few minutes bits of pieces of screentime, making lots of the stuff seem disconnected and would make us less involved with their stories.
and about Sam
Maybe the reason The White Walker didn’t kill Sam, was the same why they didn’t kill Will at the very first episode of the first season, which many people seem to forget that it could easily have done, but didn’t. This proves they have a mind of their own, Will and Sam are/were weak characters and therefore was of no thread or use to them. Maybe they wish for one person to live, for them to tell people about their return like Will did when he encountered Ned Stark and his men.
1′st season 10/10
2′nd season 8/10
Ice&FireQuote Reply
PS – Arya with the boy haircut looks like she should have her own anime series.
3eyesQuote Reply
True enough about DT saying “I’ll take what is mine… Fire and Blood… I’m the blood of the dragon, etc, etc..” But she says that constantly in the books too. It’s the Targaryen arrogance in her (her brother had it too). The only thing I felt was missing from season 2 was Dany’s brief stay at the ghost town in the red waste before finding Quarth. It was there that she had some vivid dreams and also layed the foundation for Mormont’s blooming love for her. Just my 2 cents.
Pete BoydQuote Reply
Of course I meant Gregor. Stupid me.
Yep. He looked like he’d have spent 30 days in cave or something. 1/3 of his previous self.
GrzebykKQuote Reply
I agree with this. The production value was better than in the first season but some of the plot lines were not handled well and there was a lot of “annoying” dialogue, such as Dany repeating “I will take what is mine, with fire and blood” a million times. There were quite a few points in season 2 where I asked myself how the writers could butcher the story in this way..
And you can REALLY tell this season that the pacing of the show is much too fast..
DanielQuote Reply
Unfortunately there was no Sean Bean. He added so much to season 1 and I think the show is always going to hurt after that loss. As a non-book-reader I agree about storylines and pacing.
MilknutQuote Reply
I think I agree with everything you noted, Lex, including the impressive score of Season 2.
I’m still on a high from the end of S2, so it is hard for me to judge because the last two episodes were just fantastic!
Re: Jon Snow, I have to agree that a little more Halfhand would’ve been nice. However, I was greatly enjoying the Jon/Ygritte scenes. I could watch them banter all day, probably! Maybe if they would’ve shaved a little Qarth and added a bit more of Qhorin all would be well.
Although I loved the white walker scene at the end, I feel sad that this had to be aired while The Walking Dead is so popular. It is almost impossibe to watch that scene and not think of TWD. If only TWD could have waited a couple of years to be aired – but then TWD watchers would be complaining that they copied GoT! No win either way.
I need to go back and watch S2 over again to get a fairer sense, but it was the same with s1 in that during the season, I felt there were a few slower episodes but by the end the payoff was such that the whole season worked so well.
David The GreyQuote Reply
David The Grey,
Yeah, saying GOT is copying The Walking Dead is ridiculous, since (to me, at least) every zombie movie/show is copying every other zombie movie/show. They’re all the same.
LexQuote Reply
WildSeed,
David and Dan have expressed more than oncethat they are unfortunately not going to do flashbacks, because if they start they won’t be able to stop.
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
You joined at a bad time, stick around. Once season 3 starts you’ll be in for a real treat!
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
Arya Dunyett,
In regards to the question about Shae, I think they are doing the same with her stroyline that they did with THeon. Theon’s final scene in episode 1 “Am I your brother now and always? Then my sword is yours in victory and defeat, in living or dying, from this day till my last day.” It wasn’t in the books, but it made the emotional impact of the story so much greater.
Think it will be the same with Shae
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
GrzebykK,
Original Gregor will be making an appearance as the Orc Azog in the Hobbit later this year.
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
David The Grey,
I’m a fan of both shows, as well as a reader of the books and the comics. And I absolutely loved the zombies! Combined two of my favourite things!
As for saying Zombie media copies one another, while true, Walkind Dead is much more than your average zombie story. It’s quite unique in its take and that’s why I love it while hating the Resident Evil films.
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
I know! That post regarding GW head just about did me in lol! I was having Game of Thrones withdrawals after the season ended, so that is why I ended up looking around on here.
I can’t wait for the next season, anyway I will stick around. It’s been really fun and there are a lot of interesting opinions and ideas from the people here. Also, most are pretty friendly!
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
Bonnie Blue,
Most are but watch out for the odd Balon Greyjoy (Theon’s daddy).
I hear you, found this site when the same thing happened to me after season 1.
This is the quiet season but as soon as the casting starts this site will fire up again and the fans will gather together like the wildlings under mance rayder.
You a long time book fan?
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
http://www.beyondhollywood.com/george-r-r-martin-on-the-winds-of-winter-buckling-down-and-straying/
Martin on the WInds of WInter
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
Aegon the Conqueror,
Thanks for the advice. Actually, no I am a later starter. My best friend was begging me to read the books for a few years but fantasy is not my genre (to put it nicely). I actually watched the first season of the show (because there was nothing else on!) I ended up watching the first season in two days! I just got hooked and decided to read the books. I loved them and could not put them down. I was really disappointed when I finished, now I have to wait until who knows when for the sixth. Anyway, I’m really glad that I read the books – I loved them! I’ve been trying to convert others now :)
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
Bonnie Blue,
I’ll bet you have a an easier task than I do. Living in SOuth Africa means the fantasy base here is pretty limited. Althoug I managed to trick my sci-fi fantasy hating father into watching it and now he loves it!
Hint-read the three Dunk and Egg novellas if you’ve not already done so. It reads way too quickly but it helps sate the GOT cravings.
I’m hoping HBO adapts the novellas into a single season after ASOIAF is covered.
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
Aegon the Conqueror,
Okay, thanks for the book recommendation! I will check it out, I go to the library once a week (I’m a big dork). Actually I am having a hard time getting people to read the books, because they are so long! I think people get intimidated by how many pages there are… but honestly, I zipped right through them and couldn’t put them down….
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
What is the first one called?
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
Bonnie Blue,
Haha a fellow dork! I love books that are so thick you think they will never end, finished Lord of the Rings the first time when I was 13 and just continued on from there.
Hook them with the series, that’s the only way. If it makes you feel better, I’m the only person that I know of that finished all five the books. Several of my friends are stuck between 2 and 4.
The names are the Tales of Dunk and Egg-the Hedge Knight, the Sworn Sword and the Mystery Knight.
They’re about Ser Duncan the Tall famous Kingsguard(old nan mentioned him to Bran in season 1) and King Aegon the Unlikely (Maester Aemon’s younger brother) before they got famous. Brienne actually used his shield in A Feast For Crows and may be a descended of the guy. Enjoy!
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
Aegon the Conqueror,
I will give them a try – Thanks! :)
Bonnie BlueQuote Reply
Really hoping they include Sansa’s Winterfell snow-castle scene in S3. It’s always been one of my favorite parts in ASOS….just amazingly written.
AdrianneQuote Reply
Aegon the Conqueror,
I’m a fan of both shows too – and have read the The Walking Dead comics as well (although only up to a point – I plan to read the rest some day!). I have nothing at all against TWD… I just hated seeing everyone’s comments about “how TWD that final scene was”. Still and all, if people aren’t satisfied by all of the other unique stuff that GoT brings to the table, then they’re just hopeless complainers! :-)
David The GreyQuote Reply
Ha ha! Good for you!!!! I managed to convince my wife to check it out, and she watched all of Season 1. But the opening of S2 was just a little too slow for her, and she fell asleep on the couch and that was all she wrote. I was so dismayed that she didn’t get to share in the great Jaqen H’gar scenes, I’m sure he would have hooked her in again. Now how come she can fall asleep in House Hunters but she still goes back and watches that show over and over and over?
David The GreyQuote Reply
Bonnie Blue,
For me, the hard part is coming down off these books as a fantasy fan, and trying to find something to read that can hold my attention again. It’s like now that I’ve had the best, nothing else compares. I’ve had to start switching genres to keep my interest in reading, but all the while I keep thinking “maybe I should go back and re-read ASOIAF again!” I did end up buying all of the audiobooks and am just starting Book 2. I find Roy Dotrice’s reading superb.
David The GreyQuote Reply
Sorry was getting OT there. I need to go put the tapes in and rewatch S2!
David The GreyQuote Reply
She’s probably not the only one.
A clue in ADWD suggests (knowing where the 4th Dunk and Egg story is set) Hodor may be decended from Dunk as well.
MormegilQuote Reply
Wow ok I missed that one read the novellas long time before I finally got my hands on ADWD. Planning to re-read all five and the novellas in the off season. Gives new meaning to Dunk the Lunk. Sheds new light on why Old Nan told Bran stories about Ser Duncan.
Try the Dark Tower series by Stephen King.
As for the problem with your wife, just show her the GOT Rom-Com Trailer in the Saturday GOT Laughs section. Guaranteed it will get her intrested again.
Desperately looking for serious fellow ASOIAF readers in SOuth Africa. Am I the only one? Can’t be judging on the flood of ASOIAF books found in bookstores since the end of season 1.
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
Bonnie Blue,
Greetings Bonnie, my circumstances mirror yours ( I have 5 more pages left
of ADWD ). I learned about the Dunk and Egg story from the Amazon.com site
but could not discern which book to order so I did a search on Wikipedia. There
a wonderful D &E reference outlines the many versions and perhaps the best
copy to purchase. I’m buying the Hedge Knight to begin. Enjoy.
WildSeedQuote Reply
Aegon the Conqueror,
Sounds prudent of Benioff and Weiss to consider limiting flashbacks, some series
rely on that technique to bridge an uneven story. GoT has an intelligent premise
( although some would argue there is no plot ) and the author GRRM is part of
the team so I don’t believe the story will suffer , it will probably become more
enriched. That said Flashbacks may find a way in if used sparingly and for
significant reason to employ. Too much looks stupid like Soap Opera (:
WildSeedQuote Reply
WildSeed,
Here and there a believe they might use a flashback for instance something that will not work well without one is Jon Snow’s heritage and the events that transpired at the Tower of Joy.
However flashbacks in the same sense the books made use off is definetly out according to D and D, there’s just too much to put in.
Also check out the Winds of Winter chapters posted on GRRM’s website. But in a way they are as cruel as giving a drop of water to a man dying of thirst.
You know if you just wait a year or so you can purchase all 4 of the Dunk and Egg novellas in a single book. However then you’re screwed for the off season.
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
Oh forgot to mention. While I’m a big fan of the wardrobe department of this series and the step up from season 1 to season 2 has been incredible, there are a few minor issues that continue to irk me.
Rob’s armour is part plate and part leather! Leather come on! He’s king of the north and he can’t afford decent armour? WTF! He’s is laughable compared to say Brienne.
Secondly Stannis’ armour was also ridiculous, it covers like what three inches of his torso? He goes where the fighting is thickest (awesome) wearing that, with no shield and no helmet? A little bit too ridiculous for my tastes.
Other than that I simply loved the costumes, a great part of what makes GOT so impressive visually.
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
Speaking of costumes…
I wonder why no one but Renly and Joffrey had a crown? Robb and Stannis were supposed to have pretty sweet crowns. I wonder why they chose not to go that route.
LexQuote Reply
Ser Balon Swann,
I know some think her anger with our favorite Imp will make her betrayal of Tyrion less powerful, but considering how much she seems to love him (based on the fact that she tried to get him to leave Westeros), I think they are taking in a whole new direction. Considering that she is already Sansa’s handmaiden, I think Tyrion’s marriage to Sansa will be MUCH more of a blow to their relationship than it was in the books, and I think her betrayal might be a crime of passion in the show rather than that she was playing him all along like in the books .
Hmmm. That’s a new take for me and I like it. As long as they keep the actual events at the end of ASOS, Shae’s motivation does not have to be the same as in the books.
Yellow DogQuote Reply
Aegon the Conqueror,
Was Stannis packing on any good pieces when he greeted Renley and Catelyn?
That would have been an appropriate time to show himself in kingly attire. And
no peach was necessary for that to happen.
WildSeedQuote Reply
Lex,
True , in the books Robb was forged a crown by his bannerman even though they
were engaged in battle. They clearly wanted to honor him in ceremony and by
pledging their swords. Stannis would not have demanded a crown but dam well
expected it. Both men were more practical with the events of the war plans or battle
and may have been indifferent with the crown. Book Robb often removed his crown
when with his mom. Renley and Joff were all about physical appearance ( remember
maester Cressen’s perspective ) so GoT got the right of it to profile it more. However
for the non book audience it would have been nice to stress that there were 3 kings.
WildSeedQuote Reply
Yellow Dog,
Very interesting comment. However I’ve said earlier I think it will be the same as it was with Theon. Theon pledged himself to Robb with far more flair than in the books, it made his betrayal so much more shocking. I think they will do the same thing with Shae.
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
WildSeed,
No he was not, he was wearing the same armour that he went into battle with. That’s the first time I went, “that’s not right!” Renly’s armour was awesome!
I agree with the statement that they were both practical men of war, which just makes their choice of armour and Stannis’ lack of shield/helmet all the more baffling.
Oh and I have the same complaint about Amory Lorch, wearing leather armour while many common Lanister swordsmen wear plate. Just wrong.
Aegon the ConquerorQuote Reply
I am sure they will dwell more on the burning of Winterfell as season 3 begins. They saved hiring three extra actors for the storyline. Bolton Junior and the two siblings who accompany Bran
Michael BoltonQuote Reply