Day 37: Filming at Clandeboye Estate
By Winter Is Coming on in Filming, Rumors, Speculation.

Filming in Northern Ireland continues for season 3 of Game of Thrones. They recently did some night shoots on the grounds of Clandeboye Estate which included a group of men and horses in a camp site consisting of a few tents. We have a picture of the set over on our Tumblr. I originally thought they might be filming Night’s Watch stuff here, based on who we knew to be in Belfast at the time, but this doesn’t look like a NW shoot. Brotherhood without Banners, perhaps?

Also of interest, Cat Taylor tweeted yesterday that they are “only” killing three people this week. This may have just been tongue-in-cheek, but I can’t help wondering who she might be referring to. Any guesses?

Lastly, we have heard rumors of a large scene set to film at the Paint Hall this week. The scene calls for 300 extras, including lots of women in need of fancy up-do hairstyles. Sounds to me like a wedding…

Winter Is Coming: Feel free to speculate away in the comments. But be mindful of spoilers!


292 Comments

  1. serum
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    agreed, definitely sounds like a wedding…..cant wait for this season, its gonna be just as epic as the first two!!!!

  2. Ours is the Fury
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Sighting of cast members in Belfast are popping all over Twitter these days. James Cosmo was spotted in town a couple days ago, among others.

  3. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Second damn! So close

  4. Watson
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Well that’s the first time the term “up-do hairstyles” has sent my heart racing.

  5. rhymes with braaaap
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Is the wedding of the lion and wolf or fish and twins?

  6. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    rhymes with braaaap,

    Well for chronology’s sake I’m guessing it’s the one at the TwinS!

  7. Michael Tschuertz
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    rhymes with braaaap,

    Why do so many People think that there will be more Then One Wedding this seasons?

  8. Idaan
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    It’s got to be Tyrion and Sansa’s, as it’s chronologically the first and could possibly take place at the Painted Hall.

  9. Watson
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Public service announcements:

    1) They do not shoot seasons chronologically.

    2) The producers have never said that they are covering exactly half of ASOS, only that they’re not going to cover all of it.

  10. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    Idaan,

    Oh yes with the, I completely forgot about Tyrion and Sansa. But would the filming for that not take place in Dubrovnik?

    Michael Tschuertz,

    I’m assuming you haven’t read the books in which case just keep watching and wondering. If you have read the books spoiler alert its cause you have Tyrion and Sansa’s the big episode Autumn Storms which according to speculation takes place right before Red Wedding. There’s also the chance Joff and MArgeary’s wedding will make it into this season ,though I still think it’s unlikely.

  11. Ours is the Fury
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Michael Tschuertz,

    Because it is very likely that we’ll see Sansa and Tyrion’s wedding and then the Red Wedding in S3. The Purple Wedding, we may not see until S4.

  12. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    Watson,

    Yes we know but that makes it almost impossible to speculate. Seeing as the Tyrion’s and the PW take place in King’s Landing (Dubrovnik) I’m guessing it’s the Red Wedding.

  13. Ours is the Fury
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    If the S&T wedding occurs entirely indoors, there’s no reason it can’t be shot inside a studio set in Belfast, like most interior scenes.

  14. Watson
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Everything that takes place inside the Red Keep is shot in Paint Hall. Only exteriors are done in Dubrovnik.

  15. Set Dingleberry
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    Michael Tschuertz,

    Warning: i cant figure out spoiler tags on my phone so dont read beyond this point, if someone could tag it for me id appreciate it

    Now, To answer the above question, there will be at least two and I believe three, otherwise this season will likely be a massive disappointment to non readers, they expect shocking moments akin to Ned’s beheading in season one and The Battle of the Blackwater in season 2, all three weddings could easily be fit into a ten episode narrative and still leave at least a half a season worth of Storm material for season 4, more if they resistribute portions of the story or add original material in season 4. I agree with others on here that for season 3 to be satisfying from a story telling perspective all three weddings need to occur, I’d be okay as a reader if only one happened but if season 3 ends without the PW or in the extreme unlikelihood that there is no RW, expect a massive ratings drop for season 4.

  16. stroll
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Hmm…

    Wouldn’t it make sense for them to include the PW in season 3, that way they can film the PW and Tyrion/Sansa’s wedding at the same time, with the same sets and extras? Seems like it would save them a lot of money.

    There’s also a possibility that they film the PW this year, but don’t show it till season 4. But I think the higher-ups would be reluctant to film a season ahead.

  17. Set Dingleberry
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    As stated above All three events will be filmed on sound stages like all the indoor stuff in the show, all of them were indoor in the books as well

  18. Ross
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Can someone please remind me why the purple wedding is called the purple wedding?

    I have zero recollection of it being called that in the books.

  19. Tom Sevinstrings
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    We all know that episode 9 of season 3 will be the red wedding. I expect T and S wedding to be somewhere between episodes 6-8 of season 3. In season 4 we will see Joff and Marg’s wedding in episode 6 or 7. We will see Tyrion’s verbal trial in episode 7 or 8. And we will see The Red Viper vs the Mountain in episode 9

  20. stroll
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Ross:
    Can someone please remind me why the purple wedding is called the purple wedding?

    I have zero recollection of it being called that in the books.

    Joffrey’s face turns purple.

  21. Set Dingleberry
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    cool to know you’ve already read the scripts/ seen the episodes, what will the book readers complain about in seasons 3 and 4 lol
    Tom Sevinstrings,

  22. Tom Sevinstrings
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Ross,

    It’s not mentioned in the book as the purple wedding. I dislike the name. Basically some fans call it the purple wedding because of the manner of Joffreys death by choking.

  23. Alan
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    Tom Sevinstrings:
    We all know that episode 9 of season 3 will be the red wedding. I expect T and S wedding to be somewhere between episodes 6-8 of season 3. In season 4 we will see Joff and Marg’s wedding in episode 6 or 7. We will see Tyrion’s verbal trial in episode 7 or 8. And we will see The Red Viper vs the Mountain in episode 9

    We don’t actually. There’s a decent amount of evidence it might be in Episode 8.

    The PW is called such because Joff’s face turns purple as he is choking.

  24. Watson
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Tom Sevinstrings,

    There are only six chapters in ASOS between the colorful weddings. I don’t think they’ll be 8 episodes apart.

  25. stroll
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    I’d put money on RW8, PW10. Penultimate episode being the big thing is tired and predictable, and ending the season on something as hope-crushing as the RW is too risky. Especially as I notice show-watchers seem to take a more black-and-white view than readers, with Starks = good, Lannisters = evil.

  26. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    Ross,

    I also wondered about that one the first time I read the term and for a few minutes I mistakenly and embarrisingly thought it reffered to Tyrion’s purple penis lol!

  27. Tom Sevinstrings
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    Set Dingleberry,

    lol I think it’s obvious because the way that the show is set up they always use episode 9 as the major episode (example: baelor and blackwater) Oh and fans will complain about Missendei being too old, changes to Edmure story( He’s not giving the blame for Tywins victory against Stannis. I know this because I saw edmures audition), Bolton not in Harrenhal, Ser Barristans absense(God I hope he shows up this season), Vargo Hoat without his lisp ( I also know this because of the audition) , etc. fans suck sometimes :/.

  28. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Ah see I did not know the Red Keep scenes were being filmed in Painted Hall. This makes sense. So basicially we have absolutely no idea which wedding they are shooting.

  29. Alan
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    stroll:
    Hmm…

    Wouldn’t it make sense for them to include the PW in season 3, that way they can film the PW and Tyrion/Sansa’s wedding at the same time, with the same sets and extras? Seems like it would save them a lot of money.

    There’s also a possibility that they film the PW this year, but don’t show it till season 4. But I think the higher-ups would be reluctant to film a season ahead.

    The King’s Landing sets have been maintained since Season 1. You wouldn’t want the same decorations and costumes., and they may even want a different set. You do shoot based around locations and actors to minimize cost, but there’s really no reason to move one scene from one season to another simply because of shared location here because we’re still going to have scenes in KL in season 2.

    If Joffrey were a big name, I could see that as some financial incentive, but I think they will choose where the PW goes for story reasons, rather than financial.

  30. Ross
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    Tom Sevinstrings,

    Thank you! I guess I made the possible connection with the choking but wasn’t sure if the moniker was a GRRM one or a fan one. I did assume it might be the latter as it just sounds a bit odd.

    Aegon… that is hilarious! :-)

  31. Tom Sevinstrings
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    stroll,

    Well in the book the RW was predictable too. I saw treachery coming a mile away. What made the RW fantastic was not the surprise of it but rather the orchestration. GRRM put the let the readers know that there was a very good chance Rob would get betrayed and then he went overboard by murdering both cat and Robb.

  32. Duff Man
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Any chance we can get a leaked pic showing a wolfs head sewn to a certain king’s body???

  33. Set Dingleberry
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Ha well I appreciate your surety, but just because those events happened in the penultimate episodes of season 1 and 2 doesn’t mean that episode 1-10 couldn’t have something equally shocking or multiple events that are equally shocking, if anything D&D would do well to change the structure of the season to make things less predictable, a book like storm which has multiple twists and huge story changing events will allow season 3 and 4 to divert from the structure of season 1 and 2, also don’t be surprised to see portions of AFFC and DWD in the second half of season 4. The producers never said it would take a full 20 episodes to adapt Storm
    Tom Sevinstrings,

  34. Watson
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    stroll,

    This is exactly what I think they’ll do.

    They have a lot of leeway with Jon and Dany as those two storylines have lots of natural breakpoints and lots of room to flesh things out. But basically everything that happens in the south that isn’t Arya-related is done in preparation for the two big weddings. And really, could there be a better season finale?

  35. Tom Sevinstrings
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    what evidence? From watching season 1 and 2 it’s very safe to assume that it will the Red Wedding will take place in episode 9.

  36. Ross
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    Tom Sevinstrings:
    stroll,

    Well in the book the RW was predictable too. I saw treachery coming a mile away. What made the RW fantastic was not the surprise of it but rather the orchestration. GRRM put the let the readers know that there was a very good chance Rob would get betrayed and then he went overboard by murdering both cat and Robb.

    I have heard several other people say this and I must admit I didn’t see it coming at all, not even for a second. Even after it happened I had to read and re-read again to make sure I wasn’t just dreaming it. I realise I probably should have seen the signs a mile off, but then again not seeing it coming made for pretty much the most powerful reading experience I have ever had. Incredible stuff – hope the adaptation can have the same impact for those not in the know

  37. A
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Reading the book recently, I was imagining Joff’s wedding to be set close to the beginning of Season 4. I thought for pacing the two seasons that would work best…but maybe that is just me.

  38. Tom Sevinstrings
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Set Dingleberry,

    Good point. it’s all speculation right now but I believe D&D will continue the structure of saving the best episode for episode 9. This structure worked really well for the Wire and it is working really well now. I highly doubt we see the Joffs wedding in episode 10. That will mean that Tyrion will be in prison 8 straight episodes in Season 4 since I believe Red Viper vs The mountain will take place in episode 9 of season 4

  39. Cary Bass
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    Tom Sevinstrings: lol I think it’s obvious because the way that the show is set up they always use episode 9 as the major episode

    I think it’s a bit of a stretch to think of two seasons as setting a permanent pattern. I think considering the timing of things, the Red Wedding would go fine in episode 8 with Joffrey’s demise and “what will become of Sansa” taking place as a rather decent cliffhanger. Maybe even Cat’s resurrection…

  40. Ours is the Fury
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    As far as the name Purple- it’s not just the choking face, but also the amethyst in Sansa’s hairnet that contains the poison is purple. Sansa’s silver dress is lined in purple to match her purple amethyst hairnet. Also, the wine Joff is drinking is purple, probably because of the poison. Quite a lot of purple in that chapter.

  41. Cary Bass
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Ross: Thank you! I guess I made the possible connection with the chokingbut wasn’t sure if the moniker was a GRRM one or a fan one. I did assume it might be the latter as it just sounds a bit odd.

    I had to Google “Purple Wedding” because I’d never heard it referred to before I saw it on this board. How macabre.

  42. Tom Sevinstrings
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    A,

    ^ yea I read all 5 books last summer and this would make a lot of sense. The pacing is still fresh in my mind so i think that scene needs to be saved for season 4

  43. Watson
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    If you’re grossed out by the term Purple Wedding, you should not be reading or watching this series.

  44. A
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    Tom Sevinstrings,

    Earlier I think you were suggesting it would happen in episode 6 or 7 of season 4. I was thinking it might even happen earlier, like episode 1 or 2 of the season, to have some excitement early on and set a lot of action into motion…but alas I am not a tv writer

  45. Tom Sevinstrings
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    Ross: I have heard several other people say this and I must admit I didn’t see it coming at all, not even for a second. Even after it happened I had to read and re-read again to make sure I wasn’t just dreaming it. I realise I probably should have seen the signs a mile off, but then again not seeing it coming made for pretty much the most powerful reading experience I have ever had. Incredible stuff – hope the adaptation can have the same impact for those not in the know

    These are the signs that let me know: the Freys stomping on the stark banner when they find out Robb married Jeyne, Grey Wind’s growling, as Robb approaches the Twins, Roose Boltons presence at the wedding after releasing Jaime Lannister! If that wasn’t an obvious giveaway I don’t know what is.

  46. Tom Sevinstrings
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    A,

    oh i see what u mean. I dnt think it will be that early in season 4 because it would mean having Peter Dinklage in captivity for almost the entire season

  47. Lymd
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    I hope they play the lead up to the Red Wedding like it’s done the book (i. e. that it’s a minor event before Robb’s campaign to retake the North) Everyone and their mother’s anticipating it around here but the casual viewer should be left with that same “Did that really just happen?” feeling as with Ned’s death.

  48. bigswerg
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    have been off line all summer, any word on season 4 being picked up by HBO yet?

  49. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Watson:
    Well that’s the first time the term “up-do hairstyles” has sent my heart racing.

    You’re obviously not from New Jersey. :)

  50. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    stroll: m…

    Wouldn’t it make sense for them to include the PW in season 3, that way they can film the PW and Tyrion/Sansa’s wedding at the same time, with the same sets and extras? Seems like it would save them a lot of money.

    There’s also a possibility that they film the PW this year, but don’t show it till season 4. But I think the higher-ups would be reluctant to film a season ahead.

    In a way, I wonder if the PW wouldn’t be a way to end the season. I do like the way the last two seasons have ended on OMG OMG OMG OMG moments that set your heart racing (Dany and the dragons in season 1, the White Walkers in season 2). The RW is obviously a heart-racing moment but also tragic, the kind of thing that comes earlier. I can see how you’d have that take place around Episode 7, and you have 2+ episodes of feeling really, really awful about things as a viewer, and then boom – the moment *everyone* has been waiting for. And the season ends with Cersei, frantic and in a rage, turning to the Kingsguard and yelling for her brother to be arrested.

  51. victarion
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    To use Tyrion as a pacing gauge:

    3×01 – 3×05: Coping in the new KL
    3×06 – 3×08: His wedding
    3×09: The RW
    3×10: The PW; season ends with him being arrested for kingslaying

    4×01 – 4×03: Imprisonment, meeting Oberyn (not cast for season 3), first trial, trial by combat
    4×04 – 4×05: Escape and flight to Pentos
    4×06 – 4×10: Traveling (w/ Illyrio, then Griff) until he falls into the river, or until he’s captured by Jorah

    To use Jon as a guide (remembering that Jon stories are always super slow):

    3×01 – 3×08: Travelling with Mance; probably a couple of Jon-less episodes
    3×09 – 3×10: Climbing the Wall; deserting the Wildlings

    4×01 – 4×06: Battling the Wildlings, discussions
    4×07 – 4×09: Imprisonment, election as LC
    4×10: Execution of Slynt, first negotiations with Stannis and Melisandre (switch the order up to make Slynt’s execution more of a climax)

    Introduce the new AFFC and ADWD regions / characters at the start of season 4. I think that the back-end of ASOS and the overlapping AFFC and ADWD makes for 2 seasons (probably by reducing the prominence of some of the new characters):

    Season 1: AGOT
    Season 2: ACOK
    Season 3: ASOS 1/3, 2/3
    Season 4: ASOS 3/3 + AFFC 1/3 + ADWD 1/3
    Season 5: AFFC 2/3, 3/3 + ADWD 2/3, 3/3

  52. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    I think It’ll be the RW as D&D will be itching to do it as that was the one thing that got them hooked. . the thought of filming that scene.
    Also, Ours is the fury, you got there before me with ALL the purple stuff :)

  53. Handmaiden of Dany
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Why does anyone think it will be RW? That was not at the painted hall…

  54. A
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    victarion,

    Any chance the seasons are more spread out, to give GRRM more time to finish the books, and to draw out a series that is unprecedentedly popular.

    Seasons 3-4: ASOS
    Seasons 5-7: AFFC & ADWD
    Seasons 8-9: TWOW
    Seasons 10-11: ADOS

    Maybe 11 seasons is too much to ask for, but not completely unheard of for TV. The Sopranos only had 6 seasons, but spread out over 9 years.

  55. Watson
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Handmaiden of Dany,

    The Paint Hall is the film studio at which most of the interior scenes are filmed. Any weddings will certainly be shot there.

  56. Set Dingleberry
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    Regarding what you think Tyrion would be doing for 8 episodes of season 4, if we get the climax I would like in season 3, Like I said before and as others have mentioned, the last third of storm doesn’t need to be stretched into a full season, it makes much more sense to begin dance and feast in the second half of season 4, a lot of those novels will be reimagined and cut down, as much as I enjoyed reading them 20+ episodes of inner monologue and travelogue with minimal plot advancement would be disastrous for the show
    Tom Sevinstrings,

  57. Jen@House Stark
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    I’m hoping it’s PW. I can’t bear to lose some characters dear to my heart. It was hard enough to read it, let alone see it on HBO. It’s like impending doom.

  58. Josla
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    I think and hope they save Joff’s wedding for the 4th season. There’ll be too many exciting things going on on season 3 and way too many weddings. Besides, Joff is a phenomenal villain, so getting rid of him after three seasons will be more dramatic than in two,because people will (probably) assume that he is to be the evil character that’s gonna be there ’till the end of the story. At least I know I did

  59. Tenesmus
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    -Tyrion’s wedding will be right up front in Season 3; Ep 2 or 3 at the latest.
    - Arya and Co will get captured by Ep 2/3.
    -Davos will likley get Scene 1 Ep 1
    -Fist of First Men in Ep 1, but only aftermath will be shown from Sam’s POV. Sam will find one NW survivor and kill one straggler wight (think Rand al Thor and his first Trolloc kill) with obsidian left on the fist
    -Autumn Storms will end with Balon Greyjoy falling to his death.
    -Red Wedding Ep 9.
    -Purple Wedding Ep 10 Season ends Tyrion in dungeon
    -Big CGI season ending scene could be Sam, Bran, Coldhands at the Wall. Would have to shuffle Coldhand’s intro, but that’s what good writers get paid for
    -

  60. Mimsy
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    GOT is about to change the meaning of WEDDING.. be prepared twitter… be prepared. Not only are the GOT weddings dreaded events, but your odds of coming out alive are slim to none! I’m gonna need a bucket of ice cream come the RW. :,(

  61. Set Dingleberry
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    I doubt that seriously, maybe for WoW and DoS, considering we don’t know how massive they will be if they’re ever written, but frankly dance and feast would have to introduce a voice over narrator or kill pacing and plot advancement with episodes featuring only dorne, iron islands etc. to stretch into three seasons
    A,

  62. Funtrain
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    The color purple is associated with royalty, because a color called “Tyrian” purple, which comes from an extract in snails, was only affordable by the rich.

  63. sjwenings
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    A: Seasons 3-4: ASOS
    Seasons 5-7: AFFC & ADWD
    Seasons 8-9: TWOW
    Seasons 10-11: ADOS

    Maybe 11 seasons is too much to ask for, but not completely unheard of for TV.

    I’d say it IS unheard of – as expensive as GoT is. Nothing similar has been done before.

    Also, spending 3 seasons with AFFC/ADWD would be a bore to the casual viewer. I think s4 will include some of AFFC/ADWD, and s5 might actually be enough to cover the rest. Insane? Well, considering how much of these books are spent on inner monologues and travelling and general lack of plotprogression, I think it might be enough. Now as for the last two books, we just can’t say yet.

    I think if (lol! IF!) George does not finish the series before the show catches up with him, D&D will just carry on anyway and base the show on the general story George has planned at that point.

  64. Set Dingleberry
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    This

  65. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    Funtrain,

    Oh my! I had to Google that ! :)

  66. Watson
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Mimsy,

    For reals. And to think, most of the time television weddings are thought of as easy and arbitrary ways to do something sappy. Not so Game of Thrones.

    I love that in ASOS there are four weddings, (five if you count the offstage Robb+Jeyne affair, and if you’re struggling to think of the other four, you’re probably forgetting Littlefinger+Lysa) and of all those, Tyrion+Sansa is the one that ends the best for the couple: separately on the run, and jointly accused of regicide.

  67. Shinyteapot
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    ‘Fancy up-dos’ to me says Kings’ Landing. Could even be a hint for the Purple Wedding since a hairdo is important there! And far more people will turn up, and get dressed up posh, for the King and the daughter of house Tyrell than the Imp and a ‘traitor”s daughter.

    The Red Wedding will be very male dominated, as most of those attending are soldiers. I think only Catelyn, Dacey Mormont (if she appears- hope so!) and the Frey women, probably in their knitted hats should be there. Maybe some of the Riverrun men will bring their families, but the Northmen obviously won’t be able to.

    I guessed on a previous thread that the three might be two Lannister prisoners and Rickard Karstark as big battles mean more deaths, and there has been some Riverrun filming, but that doesn’t fit with the speculation above. Unless it’s Tyrion and Sansa, no deaths at that one.

  68. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Shinyteapot,

    Hmmm I see your point about the “up- dos”

  69. Watson
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Shinyteapot,

    I agree that “up-do hairstyles” does scream King’s Landing. But there is actually a well attended feast after Sansa and Tyrion’s wedding. It could be that, but somehow I don’t think that’s a scene worth gathering 300 extras for.

  70. KG
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    C’mon, you know they’re saving Joff & Marg for the feel-good finale of the decade!

  71. Mike
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    I want to assume the scene at the painted hall is one of the three weddings in ASOS (probably one of the first two, since we know ASOS is being broken up) but the “up-do” hairstyle comment got me thinking…..since they have changed parts of Daenerys’s story, and we know Daario is being cast…..perhaps we are all way off and this is a scene in Astapor? If i remember right, it was the fashion in Astapor, Yun-Kai and Meeren for people to wear their hair scuplted into wild shapes and colors. Of course the “up-do” hair comment could just mean lots of women getting their hair done and I would be way off, haha.

  72. the goat
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Obviously there will be some serious cutting of scenes from Feast & Dance, but they would literally have to excise entire plotlines in order to get through both in 1 & 1/2 seasons (i.e. the Sparrows, Quentyn, Young Griff). Of course, D&D can discuss with GRRM whether any of these can be easily cut, but otherwise there’s just too much for 15 eps. Dance is almost as long as Storm, & Feast is longer than Clash.

  73. Ren Snow
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Lots of women in fancy do-hairstyles? Sounds like Walder Frey’s daughters and grandaughters and great-grandaughters.

    The exterior shots probably mean the massacre of the Stark forces outside the Twins. Maybe we’ll get to see Walder Rivers at last.

    And the killing three:Robb, Cat and Jinglebell?

  74. Morgan King
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    I’ve said it before, but Tyrion’s wedding coming before the Red Wedding seems key as a narrative point – Tyrion’s is fairly dull, and if you can open the RW with the sense of ‘oh great, another boring wedding’ the surprise will be that much greater.

  75. Shinyteapot
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    Ren Snow,

    More than those three die at that particular event!

  76. Set Dingleberry
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    the goat,

    feast and dance can be done at the same time, and many of the plot lines could be truncated or streamlined, many events in both books took 7 or 8 chapters give or take and much of this was either travel or inner monologue, they’ll have to be shortened otherwise the non book readers will leave en masse, if you think show watchers will put up with three seasons worth of minimal plot development or major characters disappearing for full seasons then your wrong, books 1-3 are tailor made for tv. 4 and 5 must be streamlined to make a watchable television show

  77. Always Winter
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    victarion,

    Couldn’t have said it better myself. I’m thinking season 6 and book 6 will line up for the most part, with seasons 4 and 5 one big mix of ASOS, AFFC, and ADWD.

    A,

    There’s no chance we’re getting 11 seasons here. The actors have all signed contracts for six, and HBO never seems to go beyond the six season mark with even its biggest hits. Sopranos=6, Big Love=6, Sex and the City=6. Sure Entourage had 8 and it’d be wonderfully appropriate if GoT went for 7, but don’t hold your breath for anything more.

  78. Lisa Walker
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    Sounds a little red to me.

  79. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Always Winter,

    I think the story will determine this, honestly. Sopranos was “technically” six, but spread out over 9 years, 7 seasons. Most shows run out of steam creatively anyway, which is why they don’t keep going. This will have material (though AFFC would perhaps suggest it was running short of steam anyway.)

  80. Alan
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Tom Sevinstrings:
    Alan,

    what evidence? From watching season 1 and 2 it’s very safe to assume that it will the Red Wedding will take place in episode 9.

    Episode 7 is titled Autumn Storms, and Martin has said that his episode involves a lot of raining. The storms hit Westeros right before the RW, at Queenscrown and Arya and the Hound in the Riverlands and as Robb and Cat approach the Twins. There simply isn’t a lot of stuff that needs to happen between that and the RW for an entire episode 8 and most of an episode 9 (since the RW is at the end).

    Also, if the PW is going to be in Season 3, I think they will want time for the RW to breathe. It’s a big moment, and there needs to be reaction. Episodes 9/10 back to back would be very rushed. We need to let the Lannisters gloat.

    None of this is conclusive, but I find it more compelling than Ned’s death and Blackwater being in Episode 9, so the RW must be as well. Eh. It’s something, I guess, but two years hardly makes a definitive pattern that no one would break.

  81. Watson
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    Always Winter,

    I may be wrong, but I believe Liam Cunningham signed a 6 season contract after season two. This suggests they’re thinking 8 seasons, which sounds about right to me.

  82. Ours is the Fury
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    As for the three being killed this week, James Cosmo is in town at the moment filming, and Craster’s Hut was built on Clandeboye Estate last year. It makes sense they’d be filming the mutiny any time now.

  83. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Ooooo… clever… :)

  84. Set Dingleberry
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    Sorry if I’m belaboring the point but I just started posting here and I’m pretty passionate about this subject. I agree with you completely, and furthermore contrary to what some people believe, including all these events in season 3 doesn’t over saturate the season with big moments, instead it creates a chance for one of the most action packed exciting seasons in television, while allowing season 4 plenty of great moments and an early start working with dance and feast and ironing out some of the logistical problems these books present

  85. the goat
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Set Dingleberry,

    I know they’re going to interweave Feast & Dance, but even if you cut down the “meandering” (Brienne/Jaime/Tyrion travels, Cersei’s small council, Dany dealing w/SotH, etc) there’s still no way you can cover all the important plot points in both books in 15 hours w/o cutting entire plot lines. Of course, as I said, they may very well do just that, as the sheer number of characters and plot lines (not to mention locations) would seem to be overwhelming for a TV audience by the time we get to Dance.

  86. Nicolai Hansen
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    The Purple Wedding is first in fourth season. I would be a mistake if they show it third season. I don’t think they take on the same time. They have to cast Penny and Groats also this season. And also the Tyrells is not at Sansa and Tyrions wedding, but they are in the Purple Wedding. The wedding scenes takes a long time to film.

  87. Alan
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    Always Winter:
    victarion,

    Couldn’t have said it better myself. I’m thinking season 6 and book 6 will line up for the most part, with seasons 4 and 5 one big mix of ASOS, AFFC, and ADWD.

    A,

    There’s no chance we’re getting 11 seasons here. The actors have all signed contracts for six, and HBO never seems to go beyond the six season mark with even its biggest hits. Sopranos=6, Big Love=6, Sex and the City=6. Sure Entourage had 8 and it’d be wonderfully appropriate if GoT went for 7, but don’t hold your breath for anything more.

    I’m all but certain that the end of Storm coincides with the end of Season 4. There’s may be some of Feast, etc., brought in if chronologically correct, but the end of Season four needs a climax, character arc endings, etc. Adding just to compact isn’t going to happen — and trying to squeeze in whole storylines isn’t going to happen, either.

    I expect Season 4 to be predominantly Storm.

    This leaves them with a real debate for books 4/5 (and the beginning of Six). While they aren’t as plot heavy as ASoS, it’s still two really long books, and it’s very character and location heavy. To me, they have several choices:

    1) Do it chronologically over 20 episodes, either filming over a full year (and delaying Season 5/6) or simply ending Season 5 with no significant climaxes.

    2) Pull a Martin and split the characters. Give certain ones a year off and complete the story arcs in one season, incorporating from both books and some of Winds.

    3) Cut major storylines (Brienne and the last quarter (or so – cutting off about when Dany flies off, Theon escapes but including some ending for Jon and Cersei) of Dance and squeeze it into one season, then give the end of Dance and Winds a full season (or whatever it needs).

    There’s pluses and minuses to all three. Especially considering that Martin may be writing slow and actors/producers may want a pause, etc.

    ——————

    As for how long it lasts, HBO has never gone past six, and most shows don’t make it that long. But it’s worth it to consider why.

    - Creative burnout (the Sopranos, The Wire, etc)
    - Declining Ratings (people get bored, the show stays the same, the show changes too much) and the resultant financials.

    I think in terms of GoT both are at risk. From a burnout standpoint, I’m not sure D&D can keep up the workload for 10+ years. Or their crew. Or perhaps the cast. Maisie Williams is already getting all sorts of roles, is there a point where she just doesn’t want to be Arya anymore? Can D&D do 24/7 for that long?

    If we do go that long, look for a hiatus or two.

    In terms of ratings, GoT has the advantage that it is planned, that the idea was meant to evolve over time, unlike a lot of shows which really weren’t made for a long time.

    But in changing things, you can already see where the path that Martin is going can alienate some readers and viewers. Dance and Feast are much more character driven and less action driven. Characters that people love make choices their fans hate. And the shock value of decapitated horses and incest is gone. The first three books pleased a lot of readers and pulled a lot of people in from other genres. The next two have been less universal — more magic, more prophecy, less action, more world building, etc.

    So you could see a ratings decline. Add in that the show will get more expensive. Full size dragons, new settings, more characters, no common settings… The cost may go up or even worse…

    …D&D will take more liberties. I think they’ve done a great job with the adaptation unlike many people, but even I fear what happens when D&D decide to cut Dorne completely or have Dany skip Mereen because it is too expensive.

    So I think in some ways GoT is positioned to avoid a lot of the reasons that other shows fail — namely that the setting that other shows have isn’t made to change in a positive manner. Tony Soprano’s story can be retold 100 times, but the setup was never to have him leave New Jersey and his family and that situation. There can be a new enemy but it would have ruined the show to have him turn to the FBI and go on the run. The result is repetition. How many times can we examine the contradiction that is Tony? (BTW, Breaking Bad hit this mid-last season. Good thing it is ending soon).

    That kind of change will feel organic in GoT — the main story is not over yet. The White Walkers are not resolved. Dany is still in the East. And so characters can keep developing and changing organically; you don’t need to keep retelling the same story.

  88. Set Dingleberry
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    the goat,

    i agree with you, I think they will cut some plot lines, and or use some short expository dialogue to cover or shorten others, some things that are crucial in the books may have no bearing on the show

  89. Alan
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Set Dingleberry:
    Alan,

    Sorry if I’m belaboring the point but I just started posting here and I’m pretty passionate about this subject. I agree with you completely, and furthermore contrary to what some people believe, including all these events in season 3 doesn’t over saturate the season with big moments, instead it creates a chance for one of the most action packed exciting seasons in television, while allowing season 4 plenty of great moments and an early start working with dance and feast and ironing out some of the logistical problems these books present

    No apologies needed, of course!

    I’m personally completely undecided on whether the PW is in Season 3 or 4. I can see both sides of the argument. I personally would have no issue with Season 3 ending with Cat’s throat being slit, either, but I can see counter-arguments as well.

    The only thing I feel strongly about is that I need at least one episode in between the RW and the PW. The RW should be devastating. The audience needs to feel it. Giving them Joffrey right after the tragedy is just a copout. We shouldn’t make it all better right away.

  90. Set Dingleberry
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    Nicolai Hansen,

    why do penny and groat have to be cast before the purple wedding? There are other ways to introduce those characters if at all, if watching the show tells you anything it’s that the book doesn’t need to be followed line for line to make a successful adaptation

  91. Set Dingleberry
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    If D&D want to continue producing a successful adaptation they will have to cut or reconfigure large portions of dance and feast, otherwise the show will not continue beyond that point, too expensive and viewers will quickly lose interest after the fifth or six straight episode of nothing happening

  92. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Duff Man,

    There’s a bigger chance that I will travel to Westeros and take on the persona of the Real Aegon I than getting that leaked picture. It would mean enormous lawsuits and some incredible spoilers for non readers.

  93. Morgan King
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    It’s extremely optimistic to think the HBO adaptation is going to go beyond ASOS. I wish it would go forever, but a lot of character arcs reach reasonable stopping points at the end – Jon’s running the NW, Arya’s setting sail for adventure, Sansa is married with a castle, Joffrey is dead, Tyrion has his revenge on his father, Jaime redeems himself with Brienne, Dany is worshiped as Mother, etc. And almost everyone else is dead There’s still a lot of stories unresolved, sure, but HBO’s not going to start in on the next huge arc unless this show is still doing spectacular numbers, no matter what D&D might have said, because there’s no where else to end it before Book 7 is done, that I can see.

  94. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Tenesmus,

    Anyone really curious to see what Coldhands looks like? I really wanna see if he looks a bit like BEnjen Stark.

  95. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Watson,

    Dude serious spoilers! WTF!

  96. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    Tenesmus,

    Anyone really curious to see what Coldhands looks like? I really wanna see if he looks a bit like BEnjen Stark.

    I think there’s gonna be a few moments like that…. i.e. Danny’s “old” friend … won’t be easy to pull off, also, Mance, how will they make it not obvious he’s the main dude if they use a known actor… suppose they could just not have him in focus.. :

  97. Ours is the Fury
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    His spoilers are covered with spoiler text so there’s not a problem. Click on them at your own risk.

  98. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    YvyB,

    I don’t think the Mance thing is so bad, as the focus in the books was more that he looked like an unassuming man than some of his (for lack of a better term) bannermen.
    I dont know how they are going to do Arstan Whitebeard, it took me a bloody long time to realise who he was in the books. Maybe the short attention span of the non readers will mean they’ve forgotten his face. (let’s face it they don’t have the patience to read the books, how long can their span be?)

  99. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    I don’t know if they have been tagged after I read them, but the part of Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding was wide open. Having read the books spoilers don’t bother me, but if I didn’t that one wouldn’t have gone down well.

  100. Alan
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    Set Dingleberry:
    Alan,

    If D&D want to continue producing a successful adaptation they will have to cut or reconfigure large portions of dance and feast, otherwise the show will not continue beyond that point, too expensive and viewers will quickly lose interest after the fifth or six straight episode of nothing happening

    I think this is an overstated argument. I just re-read both Feast and Dance, and there’s plenty of major plot points — Dance especially.

    There’s certainly more action elements than in a typical season of The Sopranos, Mad Men or Breaking Bad, both of which often had/have many episodes where the major action point is an argument between people or a reveal of impending danger.

  101. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    As an absolute newbie are we supposed to put the spoiler on …. I know I m a bit late in asking :\

  102. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    YvyB,

    If it’s about something that happens after the end of season 2, then yes protect the non-readers who lurk at the fringes of this site.

  103. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Ha ha ! I’m not getting it! Help please this

  104. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    Sorted :)

  105. Macha
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    Hmm, “women in need of fancy up-do hairstyles” doesn’t really sound Frey-ish to me, not even for a special event such as the RW, so I’m thinking the big scene in question is Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding. Though 300 extras would be much more suited for the PW, I really don’t think they’ll squeeze it in S3. Personally, I’m firmly in the ‘it would be an overcrowded season‘ if that should happen – come on, three weddings and two major deaths one right after the other + a resurrection scene (one hell of a cliffhanger for the final episode, btw). Way too much, in my opinion.

    PS: so James Cosmo is set to start filming the…shit, I can’t handle this. *starts weeping*

  106. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    Ok now I’ve got the hang of it… I had no idea at all and exclaimed with glee when it was revealed , so I want that experience for none readers… also had a total” Dur” moment when I realised it was Mance at Winterfell!!! Talk about the penny dropping!

  107. Always Winter
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Watson,

    I thought the same at first, but supposedly the contracts they sign mean that they’re on board for a show that runs for a potential six seasons, not that their character is tentatively going to be there for six seasons starting at the point of that character’s introductions. I got that information second-hand though, so I very well could be wrong.

    Alan,

    I agree with most of what you’ve said, but even if all the rest of Season 4 is exclusively the second half of ASOS, at the very least Tyrion’s story needs to be sped up or heavily padded. I don’t see Tyrion spending 10 episodes locked in a prison awaiting trial, assuming of course that the Purple Wedding happens at the very end of Season3/very beginning of Season 4. If he were any other character I would say they’d probably check in on him every now and again to keep that storyline going over a full season, but he is functionally the main character of the story now and that much treading water won’t do for fans or storytelling alike.

    A part of me thinks we might be getting a movie or two to cover the final book(s) in the series.

  108. sebs
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    I think Tyrion – Sansa wedding should be around episode 3-4, which gives time to Introduce the QOT and setup the motivations, leading to the wedding.
    . Putting RW in episode 9 would be a big mistake , since viewers would then expect something big to happen. RW in episode 8, would make it more surprising.
    The purple wedding needs to be in season 3, otherwise i see no conclusion to the season for any of the KL characters. Really hoping they spread the Purple wedding over the ending of episode 9 ( joffrey choking) and beginning of episode 10 ( Sansa’s escape, Litterfinger revealing the Purple wedding plot and Tyrions being accussed of the murder by Cersei). So episode 10, kinda sets the characters for the next season, which have worked great so far.

    A strong ending for Jon would be the killing of Ygritte in episode 10, since most of the seaosn is probably gonna be spend building that relationship.

    Bran, Sam conclusion gotta be opening of the Door in the wall and cold hands waiting beyond. Really hoping cold hands gets an early introduction and saves Sam from the sticky situation Sam found himself in with the white walkers in the Season 2, Closer. That would really making the Gilly,Sam,Coldhands meeting later in the season alot stronger i think.

  109. Macha
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    I take back that resurrection scene I mentioned, at first I thought that should definitely be moved in ep 10 of S3 in order to have an immediate impact after the RW, but after some thought I guess they might as well keep it for S4 (it was after all in the epilogue of ASoS).

  110. Watson
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Macha,

    That scene, if they include it, can’t be that long after the Red Wedding, because, well, bodies rot. There isn’t going to be nearly enough time after the Red Wedding to get to the epilogue, but if they include the resurrection, I think last scene season 3 makes sense.

  111. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Tenesmus:
    -Tyrion’s wedding will be right up front in Season 3; Ep 2 or 3 at the latest.
    - Arya and Co will get captured by Ep 2/3.
    -Davos will likley get Scene 1 Ep 1
    -Fist of First Menin Ep 1, but only aftermath will be shown from Sam’s POV.Sam will find one NW survivor andkill one straggler wight (think Rand al Thor and his first Trolloc kill) with obsidian left on the fist
    -Autumn Storms will end with Balon Greyjoy falling to his death.
    -Red Wedding Ep 9.
    -Purple Wedding Ep 10 Season ends Tyrion in dungeon
    -Big CGI season ending scene could be Sam, Bran, Coldhands at the Wall.Would have to shuffle Coldhand’s intro, but that’s what good writers get paid for
    -

    Nice but a possible maybe.

  112. Cary
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:

    YvyB,
    I dont know how they are going to do Arstan Whitebeard, it took me a bloody long time to realise who he was in the books. Maybe the short attention span of the non readers will mean they’ve forgotten his face. (let’s face it they don’t have the patience to read the books, how long can their span be?)

    Speaking of which, are we certain Ian McElhinny is coming back as Arstan Whitebeard? I do hope so, casting another actor just to keep his identity hidden would be rather unfair to the audience, IMHO. I don’t really know whether it will make that much dramatic impact to us if we are clued into his real identity.

  113. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    Always Winter:
    victarion,

    Couldn’t have said it better myself. I’m thinking season 6 and book 6 will line up for the most part, with seasons 4 and 5 one big mix of ASOS, AFFC, and ADWD.

    A,

    There’s no chance we’re getting 11 seasons here. The actors have all signed contracts for six, and HBO never seems to go beyond the six season mark with even its biggest hits. Sopranos=6, Big Love=6, Sex and the City=6. Sure Entourage had 8 and it’d be wonderfully appropriate if GoT went for 7, but don’t hold your breath for anything more.

    </blockquote

    WildSeed reply :
    Sounds very plausible Victarion and Always Winter. As for the season/annual
    actor commitments, it's been commented widely by a few insiders that visit the
    TrueBlood blogs that those actors have a seven season commitment. If that awful
    show gets such support I hope GoT is awarded the same. There was also discussed
    higher salaries awarded to ensure that however. Even with the commitments there
    is time available between seasons for other obligations like movies or special jobs.
    The hard part is accepting a popular actor with many projects already going which
    may negate a long commitment for any time. It's great that GoT has found such
    talent ( esp. Dinklage, Dance, Glen, Clarke , Allen,to name a few ). They are worth
    the gold and hope they get further recognition.

  114. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Watson:
    Always Winter,

    I may be wrong, but I believe Liam Cunningham signed a 6 season contract after season two. This suggests they’re thinking 8 seasons, which sounds about right to me.

    Yup.

  115. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Cary,

    Well I heard somewhere he was growing his beard ;)

  116. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    YvyB:
    Ha ha ! I’m not getting it! Help pleasethis

    Every time I attempt tags I end up deleting or asking for deletion. I just try to respond
    within the scope of the original thread. If I’m off subject I try not to be very specific.
    I’m very computer illiterate however and my technique may not satisfy most. I wish
    there were a disclaimer to non book readers to enter at their own risk. If I could not
    bear to know, I simply go elsewhere or accept the burden of knowing information
    prematurely.

  117. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    No! I,ve totally got it !!! Click on spoiler button… ^ up there and then some symbols appear but you have to click in the middle of > and < and start typing like that!

  118. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Anyhoo , no ones mentioned the set shot!!

  119. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    YvyB:
    WildSeed,

    No! I,ve totally got it !!! Click on spoiler button… ^ up there and then some symbols appear but you have to click in the middle of> and <and start typing like that!

    Okay, I see the button above and next to the b-quote one. I think I wasted a few
    minutes on the script below and found that it did not work or clicked in the wrong
    place. Let’s try I am 4’10 inches tall :D

    Did you notice that I messed up my reply to Aways Winter /Victarion ? I had to go
    back and edit to include WildSeed reply. ..LOL I need my nephew for computer lessons.

  120. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Ha ha ha ha ! Go Wildseed :D

  121. Carne
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    Cary,

    Yes, he is back.

    Filming in September.

  122. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    The set shot definitely looks rough and could be banner men or camp follower.
    In season 1,2 the Lannister camp had a lot of pavilions for the many knights and
    lords attending the war with Robb. Maybe it’s for an individual.

  123. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    YvyB:
    WildSeed,

    Ha ha ha ha ! Go Wildseed :D

    COTF spokesperson at your service !

  124. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    I’m lost in the story line could it not be Brienne/ Jaime related or Arya BHWB ?

  125. DavidBC
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    Everyone seems very eager to cram all of Storm of Swords’ major events into the season three…

    Dont you realize that if everything interesting happens in season 3 there will be no content left for season 4.

    You definetly will not see Purple Wedding, Lady Stoneheart, Tyrion in dungeons, or Coldhands.. etc . The RW is the obvious halfway point to end the season. I also feel, because this season is a 2 parter that it will end with a hard cliffhanger episode… not a soft aftermath episode 10, like the past two seasons.

  126. Ours is the Fury
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    Cary,

    yes, he’s coming back for sure.

  127. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    YvyB:
    WildSeed,

    I’m lost in the story line could it not be Brienne/ Jaime related or Arya BHWB ?

    Possibly Brienne and too soon for ‘Arry. It’s probably near the Twins with Robb’s
    rag tag Northmen
    On the other hand I’ve pitched a tent in similar fashion so
    speculate away. Woohoo I’m a tag pro now :D

  128. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Yeah wanted to ask what’s COTF? BTW you and YvyB are cracking me up :-)

  129. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Ours if you were here right now I’d kiss you! When did that news break? I definitley missed that piece of info! I wanna shout for joy now! He’s my fav supporting character!

  130. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    WildSeed,

    Yeah wanted to ask what’s COTF? BTW you and YvyB are cracking me up :-)

    Hee Hee … Children of the forest!

  131. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed: Possibly Brienne and too soon for ‘Arry. It’s probably near the Twins with Robb’s
    rag tag Northmen
    On the other hand I’ve pitched a tent in similar fashion so
    speculate away. Woohoo I’m a tag pro now :D

    Seee this old gal ‘s still got some moves !

  132. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    YvyB,

    Ah I see, well now its your turn to laugh at me again, ah the irony of the world.

  133. acvarg78
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    In this article it clearly states that the RW is will be in S3!!!!

    http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/03/30/game-of-thrones-showrunners-season-2/2/

  134. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    YvyB,

    Ah I see, well now its your turn to laugh at me again, ah the irony of the world.

    LOL LOL LOL !
    I’m practicing at using that black bar spoiler thing too.

  135. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Hahaha and that’s why Im laughing so hard. I’m hoping you are over thirty, otherwise you are shaming my generation lol!

  136. ANiceChianti
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    I think the scene being filmed is going to be Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding, due to the sheer number of guests and descriptions of the hairstyles.

    I tend to agree that the RW is like as not going to be in episode 9, followed in episode 10 with the on-screen desecration of the bodies. This is arguably even more of a punch in the stomach than the actual wedding for Stark fans, and it doesn’t occur “on-screen” in the book (due to the lack of a live POV character present), but television-wise, it’s too good of a powerful visual image for D&D to pass up (regardless of how I’m dreading seeing it). I’m hoping that scene can take the place of actually showing the death of Grey Wind on-screen, as it will be WAY easier/cheaper to film (and much less sadistic to my emotions). Also, as much as it will anger non-readers and make them threaten to quit the show, they will come back next season to watch the Freys/Boltons get their comeuppance. They’ll have no idea how long of a wait they’ll have (if it ever truly happens at all).

    I think the PW will likely occur in Season 4, and rightly so.

    Personally… the scene in Season 3, or the entire series for that matter, that I’m excited to see the most is The Hound vs. the Lightning Lord. I hope they do a great job with that scene.

  137. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    WildSeed,

    Hahaha and that’s why Im laughing so hard. I’m hoping you are over thirty, otherwise you are shaming my generation lol!

    As a COTF spokesperson my age dates back beyond your Targaryeon dynasty. In
    human years I am well past 30 years of age.
    Also as I became most modern device use much later than some because of my
    background and my family’s unwillingness to embrace modern technology in
    many areas. They are very rural minded. I told you a bit already, we are vastly
    different in culture. I did and do have some computer use in my profession but
    much is adding written information to charts. I seem to have a liking for dictation
    via voice recognition. I’ve never taken a typing course so it’s really a time saver
    between patients.

  138. the goat
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    Watson:
    Macha,

    That scene, if they include it, can’t be that long after the Red Wedding, because, well, bodies rot. There isn’t going to be nearly enough time after the Red Wedding to get to the epilogue, but if they include the resurrection, I think last scene season 3 makes sense.

    I don’t think he meant we will actually see the resurrection, pretty sure he was just talking about the epilogue, which occurs a bit after both the RW and the resurrection. Also, I believe her body did start to rot, wasn’t it mentioned at some point that she was in the water for three days before Nymeria pulled her out and the BwB found her?

  139. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    I well past 30 and I worked it out ! …. Just saying ;p

  140. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    YvyB,

    Yea ! lets salute the “spoiler tag ” !! Now if only I can figure out how to get a
    gravatar. Mrs H’ghar said it did not work for her either. Could be that the
    site is not Mac friendly.

  141. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Oh ! Well as you can see I got one … worked for me :)

  142. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    acvarg78:
    In this article it clearly states that the RW is will be in S3!!!!

    http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/03/30/game-of-thrones-showrunners-season-2/2/

    Much of B & W comments were referenced mid S2 and through GRRM at
    ComicCon ’12 , but yes it’s reasonable to use this interview as an inclusion
    of that scene.

  143. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    YvyB,

    Where did you get yours ( I’m envious by the way ) and are you using a Mac ?

  144. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Just above where you comment it says get a Gravatar in blue. Just click on that it takes you to the link and no.

  145. Set Dingleberry
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    DavidBC,

    its all speculation on my part but I think you’re dead wrong, a season without a conclusion would be a mistake from a storytelling perspective, the last third of storm still has a ton of stuff to cram in, and I believe a good portion of introductions that occurred in feast will be fit into season 4, this frees up season 5 to tell a truncated version of feast and dance streamlined for the small screen, the conclusions of some of the arcs saved for winds of winter could even be fit in, i love feast and dance, less than the first three books sure, but I honestly believe plenty of the material in those books can be omitted, shortened, explained through expository dialogue, etc

  146. SOS
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    the red wedding and purple wedding will both be in Season 3. You really think fans will be satisfied when the only big event that happens in the season is their favorite character dying? They need to even it out by also showing Joffrey’s death in the same season, or else it might get to sad for some. They’ve already had to go through this with Ned, and i don’t think the directors will wait one whole year to reveal that Joffrey dies in the same book.

  147. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    YvyB,

    Did that ( clicked on the blue highlighted word ) and applied on website & rec’d
    email. I could not finalize the process. I just retried it only I’ve sent an email to
    the site mgr this time for clarification. Mrs H’ghar said she was unable to get
    one when Aegon the Conqueror suggested she chose one to avoid the evil
    twin person. I’m sure there’s a reasonable explanation including something
    I must be doing :D

  148. Andrew
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    Set Dingleberry,

    Yeah, the last two have a lot of stuff that just off the top of my head I think they could cut or compress, while keeping the core of the story. For instance, having just Astapor or Meereen, rather than travelling between the two. Cutting out most of Cersei’s time spent plotting and probably the Merryweather stuff as well. Not much happens on Brans journey event wise, so that’ll probably be a bit shorter and we’d get to The Three-eyed crow sooner. Tyrions boat trip was interesting, but I imagine he’ll get to Illyrio’s, and immediately be given over to Duck to head out on the river, without the whole exploration of the manse, the dinner, the terrified bedwarmer, etc. Dany’s story also has a lot of political stuff going on, which will probably be stripped away for the most part. I think the fight pits and the marriage will still be there, though. That’s just a few ways they’ll probably streamline it, so purists brace yourselves :P

    I hope that all three weddings are this season, personally. I think the audience may get a bit annoyed if it’s just the Red Wedding we see, as the “bad guys” really have yet to be punished in the eyes of most non-readers.

  149. YvyB
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Hmmm I don’t know then , with out more info. Anyhoo it’s 1.30 in the morning here .. so best off ! No doubt I ‘ll speak tomorrow, Gods be good ! ( one of my favorite lines … God’s don’t have mercy , that’s why they’re Gods! )

  150. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    Ross,

    I also wondered about that one the first time I read the term and for a few minutes I mistakenly and embarrisingly thought it reffered to Tyrion’s purple penis lol!

    LOLz Your Grace! A woman proposes a new name for the wedding of Sansa and Tyrion…the BLUE Wedding, since they’re both reluctant and have the “blues” about being forced into it. Then we’d have Blue, Red, and Purple weddings that we know of, and maybe there will be a Green wedding (somebody marries Meera or Jojen Reed), and a Golden Wedding (Dany and what’s his name who marries for the crown basically?) Just for ease of reference, easier to type BW for Blue Wedding rather than Sansa & Tyrion over and over, or even S&T. What says Your Grace?

  151. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. H’ghar,

    Agreed on that one. Assume you mean Reznak mo ?Reznak? not sure about his last name, but doesn’t matter he’s a douche!

    WildSeed, YvyB well in that case dear ladies you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Being a member of the generation of technology one expects all of his generation to be equally as clued up. Oh and just between you and I, I tought myself to type. Later took a type class but still find that my improvised style is much faster than the official one. So just saying, with practise it can be done.
    While we are way off topic, let me just at YvyB you have thee most irratating name to type when it;s 3am. I have to scroll up everytime to see which letters are capitols and which aren’t lol!
    Ok I’m out gnite all!

  152. Django Djavos
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    Tom Sevinstrings,

    You seem extremely confident of your predictions Tom, personally I think they are way off..

    PW in S4 E6? No way, I think (and hope) it will be last episode of S3. After all, it happens only a matter of a few chapters (7 to be precise) after the RW in the book. Even admitting the chronology will not necessarily be followed, how on earth could you justify a gap of 6-7 EPISODES between the two??

    If the show runners know what’s good for them (and I have faith they do) they will close off S3 with a memorable, satisfying bang (just like dragons for S1 and white walkers for S2) and give the audience what they’ve been gagging for with a dead purple-faced Joffrey!

  153. Ladystormborn
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    Ah my god! I should have been 1 of those women and i couldnt do it! Im so annoyed with myself! Think i’ll go scream now!

  154. Stacey J.
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

    It’s awesome to see pictures posted.. That’s great.
    But, I’m getting annoyed. When are they gonna cast Mance Rayder. I mean I wanna see somebody play him.. They have to soon.

  155. Alan
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    Always Winter:
    Watson,

    I thought the same at first, but supposedly the contracts they sign mean that they’re on board for a show that runs for a potential six seasons, not that their character is tentatively going to be there for six seasons starting at the point of that character’s introductions. I got that information second-hand though, so I very well could be wrong.

    Alan,

    I agree with most of what you’ve said, but even if all the rest of Season 4 is exclusively the second half of ASOS, at the very least Tyrion’s story needs to be sped up or heavily padded. I don’t see Tyrion spending 10 episodes locked in a prison awaiting trial, assuming of course that the Purple Wedding happens at the very end of Season3/very beginning of Season 4. If he were any other character I would say they’d probably check in on him every now and again to keep that storyline going over a full season, but he is functionally the main character of the story now and that much treading water won’t do for fans or storytelling alike.

    A part of me thinks we might be getting a movie or two to cover the final book(s) in the series.

    Yeah, that’s why one of several reasons why I expect the PW to be in Season 4. Also, the introduction of the Red Viper, who could volunteer to fight for Tyrion without meeting him but it does become more awkward. Since we haven’t seen him cast, I wonder if he is exclusively Season 4.

    Either way, it’s workable but not ideal.

  156. Ren Snow
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    I agree and hope for the same. That way we can have Tywin’s death and Lady Stoneheart’s introduction for the end of S4

  157. Alan
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    Someone mentioned above ending Bran on Coldhands, which highlights a major issue with Bran’s storyline: there’s not that much of it. The plotpoint listed is the LAST for Bran in ASOS, he’s not in Feast and he only has about four or five chapters in Dance. They need to add to Bran’s storyline or drag it out. I think that may be a small part of the reason the Reeds were delayed.

  158. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    Mrs. H’ghar,

    Agreed on that one.Assume you mean Reznak mo ?Reznak? not sure about his last name, but doesn’t matter he’s a douche!

    WildSeed, YvyB well in that case dear ladies you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Being a member of the generation of technology one expects all of his generation to be equally as clued up. Oh and just between you and I, I tought myself to type. Later took a type class but still find that my improvised style is much faster than the official one. So just saying, with practise it can be done.
    While we are way off topic, let me just at YvyB you have thee most irratating name to type when it;s 3am. I have to scroll up everytime to see which letters are capitols and which aren’t lol!
    Ok I’m out gnite all!

    The people are grateful your grace Aegon 1 , first of the technological age and lord of
    the 5.75 kingdoms. I taught myself too but I have a wonderful support staff that
    handles the formal docs. I’m a pretty good 2 fingered typist at home and work. I supose
    you own a microwave too :D
    Yes it is late for you as it is only early evening here ( ~ 7:20 PM ), I’m surprised you
    posted.

  159. Jen@House Stark
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    YvyB,

    I’m also in the over 30 ladies group. I also need to learn the spoiler cover and will when I have a few minutes to say, have a thought! Ay me, I am a sun dial in a digital age!

  160. Alan
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    DavidBC:
    Everyone seems very eager to cram all of Storm of Swords’ major events into the season three…

    Dont you realize that if everything interesting happens in season 3 there will be no content left for season 4.

    You definetly will not see Purple Wedding, Lady Stoneheart, Tyrion in dungeons, or Coldhands.. etc . The RW is the obvious halfway point to end the season. I also feel, because this season is a 2 parter that it will end with a hard cliffhanger episode… not a soft aftermath episode 10, like the past two seasons.

    I think there’s a very good chance Season 3 ends with Joff dead and Tyrion arrested — literally the moment of arrest — as the last KL scene of the season.

    That said, I generally agree with you. While a lot of fans seem to want to speed up the series, I think D&D are most likely with the critics in the sense of, if anything, it needs to SLOW down so characters can develop more.

    I don’t know about that for certain, but it certainly is the fastest moving serial drama out there right now. Most follow the tense drama/relationship/long shots of individual then three minutes of action at the end model.

  161. Morgan King
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    There is no chance of the Purple Wedding in Season 3. It’s just not going to happen - it’s way deep into the book, Chapter 60 of 82, and they are going to need the one-two punch of Joffrey and Tywin and Tyrion’s relationship to them to even have anything to do in King’s Landing in Season 4 with their biggest star. Mostly, the longer they delay the oh-so-sweet death of Joffrey the better for viewers – his death is to GoT as the identity of Laura Palmer’s killer is to Twin Peaks.

    Season 3 is going to end with:
    * Sam and Gilly being rescued by Cold Hands
    * Jaime’s epic rescue of Brienne
    * The Hound kidnapping Arya
    * The Yunkai chanting ‘Mother!’ to Dany
    * Jon betraying the Wildlings and warning the Wall
    * Bran warging into Hodor

    And, if I had my way:
    *Cat, Robb and the Tullys riding out to the Twins on a rainy morning, leaving the Red Wedding for for a huge way to kick off Season 4. Leaving it as a frustrating cliffhanger doesn’t give you the next week to see the revenge that Season 4 will ultimately hand out – waiting all summer for that is weaker storytelling, to me. It also makes an obvious arc to go from RW to Tywin’s death as a TV season narrative.

  162. Django Djavos
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    DavidBC,

    Have to disagree about the “lack of interesting content” for S4 if PW is put into S3.

    Let’s see… Viper vs Mountain, Night’s Watch vs wildlings @ wall, sacking of 2 slave cities by Dany, Sansa’s trip to the Vale, Tywin’s final shit… and that’s just SOS stuff. I’m also pretty sure we’ll have some FFS in there too, such as introducing Dorne and Iron Islands storylines, plus Ayra’s adventures in Bravos. That seems plenty of thrills in one season for me!

  163. Morgan King
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    Django Djavos,

    The odds of them not condensing the 2 slave cities into 1 is pretty slim, I reckon.

  164. darquemode
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    I’ve been wondering if D&D will use Bran as the lightning rod for the prophecies and/or histories that have been left out of the series so far. I mean they can have the Reeds detail some of the important events and prophecies from the past to Bran thus expanding his storyline and eliminating some of that exposition in other storylines. It might make for too much exposition (with no sexposition), but they definitely need to beef up Bran’s arc some how.

    Likewise with warging… If Jojen and Meera can go into more detail about Bran’s abilities, we can see those lessons reflected in Jon’s storyline without actually having Jon learn those lessons. It plays out like that in the books to some degree, but since the show has ignored much of Jon’s connection to Ghost and there is a lot more material to cover on Jon’s end of the world, maybe limiting the warging lore to Bran makes sense. Of course Jon’s warging abilities might come into the play by necessity a few seasons into the future….

  165. darquemode
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 10:59 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    They really need to slow down the series in my opinion!
    Up to this point they have had to put one book into one season, but now they can move at their own pace.

    While I am fairly certain that the RW and maybe even the PW will make into this season, I would consider that to be keeping pace with the previous seasons more than slowing things down. I would prefer they end the King’s Landing and Robb arcs prior to the big weddings personally. If they do need to move those arcs fast enough to have the 3 weddings in Season 3, I hope they take their time on the othr arcs (where they can) and do not move forward at the same speed.

  166. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Jen@House Stark:
    YvyB,

    I’m also in the over 30 ladies group.I also need to learn the spoiler cover and will when I have a few minutes to say, have a thought! Ay me, I am a sun dial in a digital age!

    LOL. Read the previous posts by YvyB, and post. If I can do it so may you.

  167. darquemode
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    Morgan King,

    I have thought of all those arc end points and like them too. Jon may not actually need to make it back to the Wall to warn the NW… He could just escape the WIldlings with an arrow in his leg and begin Season 4 by returning to the Wall to warn the NW. I think that escape itself may be intense enough for a finale to Jon’s arc.

    I see the logic of playing out all three weddings in Season 3, but I sincerely think that the RW would make for a sincerely brilliant Season 4 opener. If not, the PW would make for a very good season opener to me. That way it delays Tyrion’s jailing until the beginning of the season and he does not spend most of the season in the dungeons (as he would if PW is in Season 3), but maybe only 5 or 6 episodesif you count 1 or 2 at the beginnig before he is imprisoned and 2 or 3 at the end for his trial by combat, patricide and escape.

  168. Jen@House Stark
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Hear, hear! Works for this lady.

  169. Morgan King
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

    Totally! I think it’s easy to forget how much happens before the weddings in ASOS!

    *Everything about Reeds, Bran’s advanced warging
    *Everything about Tullys and Riverrun
    *Everything with Ramsay and Theon that they choose to add
    * Everything with Robb and Jeyne they choose to add
    *All the Brotherhood Without Banners stuff, and Arya and Gendry’s travels
    * All the stuff with the Tyrells in King’s Landing
    * The Battle of the Fist of the First Men
    * The mutiny of the Night’s Watch
    * The Hound v. Dondarrion
    * Tywin’s political rule of King’s Landing
    * Almost all of the adventures of Jamie and Brienne and the Brave Companions
    * The return of Davos and his assassination attempt on Melisandre
    * Jon, Mance, skinchangers, every other Ygritte scene
    * Sansa’s new engagement, the return of Ser Dontos
    * Dany and Selmy and the Unsullied
    * Tyrion’s relationship with Shae
    * Wildlings south of the Wall

    That’s an easy 9 episodes of stuff, especially if you end it with some of the list I posted above.

  170. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    Alan: I think there’s a very good chance Season 3 ends with Joff dead and Tyrion arrested — literally the moment of arrest — as the last KL scene of the season.

    That said, I generally agree with you.While a lot of fans seem to want to speed up the series, I think D&D are most likely with the critics in the sense of, if anything, it needs to SLOW down so characters can develop more.

    I don’t know about that for certain, but it certainly is the fastest moving serial drama out there right now.Most follow the tense drama/relationship/long shots of individual then three minutes of action at the end model.

    Let’s hope one of the critics include GRRM or other credible folk that have insights for
    projects as vast as this. No doubt viewers will see the aforementioned which certainly
    include very significant moments in respect to ASOIAF. Each of those scenes are full
    of angst and exclamations. Without pacing for character or plot development, the
    result could be exhaustive in every aspect of the series. GoT needs to slow down
    these folk have sensed that and a artful plan is likely underway.

  171. Gatorfisch
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    Ross: Ross

    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Can someone please remind me why the purple wedding is called the purple wedding?
    I have zero recollection of it being called that in the books.

    RossQuote Reply

    Because of the “royal” color being purple.

  172. The Kingslayer
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    Michael Tschuertz,

    darquemode,

    From what ive heard, RW and PW will both take place in season 3, and that they would be saving the war on the wall for season 4, as well as stretching out some story arcs for season 4 and even starting some events of AFFC or ADWD toward the end, but i completely agree with you, i feel they should slow down the pace now, id like to get more interaction with the Tullys before the RW but it seems we wont be meeting them until just a few eps before, theres tons of material to use to stretch the story, weather it will happen is another thing, i expect the RW to be in 3×09, and the PW i would like to happen around 4×02 or 4×03, just so we can get to see how things have changed, and keep the show from being too repetitive, 3 weddings in 1 season is abit much.

  173. WildSeed
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:55 pm | Permalink

    darquemode:
    Alan,

    I’ve been wonderingif D&D will use Bran as the lightning rod for the prophecies and/or histories that have been left out of the series so far. I mean they can have the Reeds detail some of the important events and prophecies from the past to Bran thus expanding his storyline and eliminating some of that exposition in other storylines. It might make for too much exposition (with no sexposition), but they definitely need to beef up Bran’s arc some how.

    Likewise with warging… If Jojen and Meera can go into more detail about Bran’s abilities, we can see those lessons reflected in Jon’s storyline without actually having Jon learn those lessons. It plays out like that in the books to some degree, but since the show has ignored much of Jon’s connection to Ghost and there is a lot more material to cover on Jon’s end of the world, maybe limiting the warging lore to Bran makes sense. Of course Jon’s warging abilities might come into the play by necessity a few seasons into the future….

    It seems the departure from Jojen onscreen relating the Winterfell Flood dream
    indicated that. However with the casting of the Reed siblings for S3 the storyline
    would be enhanced as you said, spilling over to Jon’s incomplete story. In would
    be disappointing if Ghost were absent in S3 as much as S2 but with so many big
    signif scenes coming up Jon the warging Wildling will be delivered in savory bits
    until S4. I think pacing the characters has been a subject on Benioff & Weiss’s
    clipboard for a while so a shift likely in process. Perhaps the angst driven subjects
    will draw in a a hoard of new viewers, inviting them to stick around for the develo-
    ping story. It’s a good thing I’m not actively reading the referenced texts, I was so
    emotionally wrung out that I had to take 48 hr break for shock. I remember the
    outrage and the excitement from a fair amount of viewers with Ned’s beheading,
    and that was only one big moment. Add Mark Addy’s departure and some folk
    were saying WTF ! Anyway streamlining for this point on will be interesting.

  174. Alan
    Posted August 14, 2012 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    darquemode:
    Alan,

    I’ve been wonderingif D&D will use Bran as the lightning rod for the prophecies and/or histories that have been left out of the series so far. I mean they can have the Reeds detail some of the important events and prophecies from the past to Bran thus expanding his storyline and eliminating some of that exposition in other storylines. It might make for too much exposition (with no sexposition), but they definitely need to beef up Bran’s arc some how.

    Likewise with warging… If Jojen and Meera can go into more detail about Bran’s abilities, we can see those lessons reflected in Jon’s storyline without actually having Jon learn those lessons. It plays out like that in the books to some degree, but since the show has ignored much of Jon’s connection to Ghost and there is a lot more material to cover on Jon’s end of the world, maybe limiting the warging lore to Bran makes sense. Of course Jon’s warging abilities might come into the play by necessity a few seasons into the future….

    I think that’s a really good idea.

    Especially since I really hope they keep the Knight of the Laughing Tree story in. :)

  175. darquemode
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:01 am | Permalink

    The Kingslayer,

    I’m resigned to that fact too.
    I think the Autumn Storms episode will be one or 2 episodes prior to RW. Although I am still not sure PW will fall in Season 3. There is enough material after the RW for 2 or 3 episodes and King’s Landing need not be in every episode either. I suspect (and fear) PW will be in episode 10.

    IF they move that fast and have all weddings in Season 3 they will dominate the season and the tagline for Season 3 may as be “Weddings are coming”…..

  176. Bgap
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:01 am | Permalink

    My current guess. RW episode 8, PW episode 2 or 3 season 4. Season 3 will end will Zombie Cat reveal. While it’s good that the expected episode 9 climax happens an episode early for shock and surprise value, the season still has to end with an intense fantasy scene that matches the birth of the dragons and march of the white walkers

  177. Alan
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:04 am | Permalink

    darquemode:
    Alan,

    They really need to slow down the series in my opinion!
    Up to this point they have had to put one book into one season, but now they can move at their own pace.

    While I am fairly certain that the RW and maybe even the PW will make into this season, I would consider that to be keeping pace with the previous seasons more than slowing things down. I would prefer they end the King’s Landing and Robb arcs prior to the big weddings personally. If they do need to move those arcs fast enough to have the 3 weddings in Season 3, I hope they take their time on the othr arcs (where they can) and do not move forward at the same speed.

    Yeah, I’d really like to see more of the quieter moments. Characters like Arya could really use some time to deal with what’s about to happen to them.

  178. darquemode
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:12 am | Permalink

    Alan,

    GRRM’s books are filled with those small moments that say so much, those internal moments that allow the characters to connect to the story and the reader (and viewer) to connect to the characters.

    D&D have done a decent job keeping many of those moments in the series and building their own moments. The outcome being that many of those moments have been the most powerful on the TV series. I just cannot understand why they would not take the chance to add more of those powerful moments in the upcoming seasons by slowing down the sttory and letting it, and the characters, breath a little more.

  179. Morgan King
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:25 am | Permalink

    The Kingslayer,

    Heard where?

  180. Winterfell Burning
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:11 am | Permalink

    People saying that the PWwon’t be in season 3 are completely ignoring the fact that it’s the ONLY possible ending for the King’s Landing storyline. The entire season will build up for it and it’s the natural conclusion. Without it, NONE of the arcs happening there will go somewhere, and every single character will be in the same position as in the end of the season 2. They might as well just cut KL from the season, because otherwise the entire season will be a waste of time.

  181. Alan
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:19 am | Permalink

    darquemode:
    Alan,

    GRRM’s books are filled with those small moments that say so much, those internal moments that allow the characters to connect to the story and the reader (and viewer) to connect to the characters.

    D&D have done a decent job keeping many of those moments in the series and building their own moments. The outcome being that many of those moments have been the most powerful on the TV series. I just cannot understand why they would not take the chance to add more of those powerful moments in the upcoming seasons by slowing down the sttory and letting it, and the characters, breath a little more.

    The good news here is that I think D&D agree with us. I think they want this to be the Sopranos or Breaking Bad, but in this world. There’s a reason everyone who came to Martin before them wanted to cut this thing down to “Dany’s story” or “Jon’s Story.” What they are attempting, in the TV world, is frankly INSANE. The story has about 15 main characters and they haven’t marginalized a single one yet in terms of cutting them or removing them as a primary character (in fact, they’ve added, with one extra character taking a much larger role).

    Now we’ll see if they can make something so damn big so personal.

    I think they’ve done a decent job thus far, though taking 20 episodes to do ASOS will be the test. There’s enough time where there wasn’t before — let’s see the characters in even more detail. I feel like every character got a scene or two of real character in season 2 — whether Arya with Tywin, Sansa had a couple scenes in one episode, the Hound in Blackwater, Stannis is the choking scene (did we really know him before then?). But in general, D&D had to make do with making sure every scene was plot and character. It was like a short — no wasted seconds. I hope we get more “just character development” in Seasons 3 and 4.

    I just hope readers are more patient. Much of the character development in the books is internal monologue — and that’s out. A scene like Arya-Tywin’s “anyone can be killed” both captured Arya’s feelings of loss of innocence and her family as well as our favorite part of her character — the part that gets hit and keeps getting back up; the persistent and vocal rebel. The important person here is Arya, people. Instead, we had people whining about “grandfatherly Tywin.”

    But that all said, I look forward to a Season 3 pace where we can have that as well as Arya muttering her prayers a few more times as she heads to sleep (rather than once).

  182. Morgan King
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:26 am | Permalink

    Winterfell Burning,

    I can totally imagine a dramatic King’s Landing moment as Tyrion greets 300 Dornishmen and The Red Viper who storms into demanding the Mountain’s head. Really, if the focus of the action isn’t completely on the Lannisters in KL, it’s a good excuse to spend a lot of time with the Tyrells and Martells while giving Tyrion a chance to recover and Tywin to settle into power.

  183. Big Jim & The Twins
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:35 am | Permalink

    IMO… I do not think the ‘Purple Wedding’ or anything related to it whill happen in S3 because the whole Martell Sub Plot will not be until season 4… So how can we play that game if not all of the pieces are yet on the table??? Just a thought…

  184. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    Having read all the comments above and pondered on the pacing issue, a woman thinks that S3 will include the BW (blue wedding, Sansa & Tyrion), the RW, and MAYBE end the season with the PW. One could envision Sansa escaping to the ship, seeing her in a hooded cape ala the French Lieutenant’s Woman gazing at the view of Westeros getting smaller as the boat pulls away in the misty distance, terror on her face for the unknowns ahead. But could also envision having the PW at the beginning of the 4th season too. It will be a surprise for us all when we see how they play it since there are so many sub-plots that could be shifted this way or that from S3 to S4 or cut altogether. Naturally, a woman wishes to see the PW happen ASAP!!!

  185. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:51 am | Permalink

    Big Jim &amp; The Twins:
    IMO… I do not think the ‘Purple Wedding’ or anything related to it whill happen in S3 because the whole Martell Sub Plot will not be until season 4… So how can we play that game if not all of the pieces are yet on the table??? Just a thought…

    Good point.

  186. darquemode
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 2:17 am | Permalink

    Winterfell Burning,
    I agree completely that the natural finale for Season 3 is the PW, but I think that assuming the RW is in Season 3 that its repurcussions will be felt in King’s Landing and be a strong enough ending for the location even without the PW.

  187. WhiteWolf
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 2:48 am | Permalink

    More black than letters on this thread. Not worth reading.

  188. Funtrain
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 3:11 am | Permalink

    WhiteWolf,

    Not worth reading but worth leaving the 187th comment?

  189. Funtrain
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 3:24 am | Permalink

    Sorry 189th comment

  190. Ryno
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 4:22 am | Permalink

    I always figured that the Red Wedding would be the final scene of episode 10. In my opinion it is the perfect way to end the season with a bang, and no one would expect it since so far the last episode traditionally has been a fallout/wrap up episode after a crazy number 9. So what if it would piss all the viewers off right at the end, that is what Game of Thrones is about. Then a few episodes into season 4 would come Joffs wedding.

    I think that the best way to do episode 9 or whatever episode comes before the Red Wedding would be to add in a decent sized battle of Robb’s forces with the Frey’s, against some Lannister forces. The battle could be of a large enough budget to seem fairly awesome, and it would further cement in the viewer’s mind that the Frey’s are friends. Hell, you could even have Roose Bolton save Robb’s life at one point, just to make the inevitable betrayal seem even more sudden and horrifying. This way, the wedding and feast could seem like a celebration of sorts for the good guys, only to have everything come crashing down.

    @Whitewolf, go figure, comments theorizing about what will happen when in the next season has a lot of spoilers.

  191. BrianD
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 5:03 am | Permalink

    Not sure if this has been posted before?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19260722

    Brian

  192. sjwenings
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    Those that don’t think the PW will be included in s3 seems to forget two things. 1. how else to end the entire Kings landing storyline. 2. Who ever said s4 has to end where ASOS ends? Some storylines might, others might not.

  193. sjwenings
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    Big Jim &amp; The Twins,

    I don’t get it. Why can’t we just wait until s4 with the Martellplot? Yes, some changes would have to be made, but who says that’s impossible, or even unlikely?

  194. SOS
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    I still think both RW and PW will be Season 3. Those two are meant to go together, a very hated and a very loved character dying. That won’t leave enough for Season 4? Oh please, there is lots of stuff that happens after. Tyrion’s capture and escape, Dany sacking the slave cities, The Battle of Castle Black, Jamie and Brienne. Bran’s escape with Coldhands.

    … and they will definitely add some of Books 4 and 5 into it, because SOS is big, but not exactly big enough for 20 good episodes, they will introduce quite a lot of stuff from the next two books so in Season 5, we are not thrown into a bunch of new characters we have no idea about.

    Also think logically, there is only one season in a year, Robb’s death being the big event of Season 3 will leave many fans sad and to wait a full year for some of their hated characters to die, its not gonna happen. Martin made Joffrey die in the same book for a reason.

  195. Magnar
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    Watson,

    I’d say Edmure and Roslin – as a couple – have a better result, hey what’s the remainder of your life as a captive compared with an accusation of regicide :P

  196. Carne
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Considering Pyp and Rast are back for season 3 I think Jon will reach the wall.

  197. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    His Grace Aegon I also called the Conqueror…titles…titiles…is quite the night owl and suffers regularly from Insomnia.

  198. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    Jen@House Stark,

    I’m starting to think I am the only twenty something poster that’s closer to twenty than something. Alas I mourn for the lack of intellectualism amongst my peers.

  199. Entchen
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    I mentioned this on the westeros board, but nobody seemed to like my idea :/ Please note this is NOT what I think will happen, but if I were putting this show together, I might put the PW before the RW. It’s been a while since I reread SoS, but I can’t think of any reason why the RW has to be first, and just think – episode 9, season 3, Joff dies! Shocking, Tyrion’s in a great mid-season stopping point (I don’t think introducing Oberyn later would really be that hard), and things are finally looking up for the Starks. Then you come back for season 4, and right there, in episode one, bam, RW.

    That would be amazing.

  200. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    SOS,

    Dude spoiler tags! Not everyone here knows that Robb will kick the bucket at the Red Wedding.

  201. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    Ok havimg read all the comments I am now convinced that the story needs to be slowed down in order for character development to feel realistic. That means pushing the PW to season 4 (gosh I hope) I have no idea what to do in episode 9, but for episode 10 I would end with the slaughter that is the RW, just imagine the screen fading to black as yu hear the sounds of men fighting and dying, with Robb’s fate unknown. THen season 4 opens with the Wolf on Robb’s head scene.

  202. Hertolo
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    BrianD,

    Arghh, too bad. But on the other hand, I guess it was the right thing to do to return it. So many unwanted (by the producers) spoilers would have spoiled all that interesting discussion going on here :)

    On another note, I always thought the PW was named this way because of the amethysts in Sansa’s Hairnet that are the likely source of the poison? Tough I must say, the other options brought up here all seem to be funny as well :)

  203. sjwenings
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    No offence, but thats the most horrible idea ever! It would take away most of the impact – shock, horror, tragedy – of the RW. It would make for an incredibly annoying cliffhanger, and when Robbs finally revealed to be dead, it’d be very anti-climatic since theres no tension leading up to it. Just a big “oh”.

  204. Michael Tschuertz
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    Ours is the Fury,

    Isnt that wedding later? havnt read ASOS since 2002 so…

  205. Michael Tschuertz
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Set Dingleberry,

    I dont see that as a problem. And why should it be? The Starks lose and Joff wins we have seen that the last 2 seasons. I dont see how that should be a problem at the end of this season.

  206. Jen@House Stark
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    His grace is indeed kind to descend from onhigh and mingle with the commoners! Just bustin’ your chops, your grace.

  207. MaryS-NJ
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Speculation: Season 3 of GoT will be three weddings and a funeral.

    How depressing can season 3 be without losing audience for season 4?

    Honestly, I think the Purple Wedding must happen in season 3, if the TV series follows ASoS as closely as seasons 1 and 2 followed AGoT and ACoK, respectively. ASoS is chock full of important events but I think an awful lot of treachery befalls the “good guys” at the hands of the “bad guys” and I fear the Red Wedding, if done in a way that keeps the same feeling from the book, may be the last straw for some of the audience if there is no justice served up by the end of the season. I think having the Red Wedding answered by the Purple Wedding will feel like justice served and Sansa’s escape from Kings Landing, with John’s return to the Night’s Watch, Sam’s rescue of Gilly, and maybe speeding up Arya’s escape from the Hound and Westeros on her way to Bravos will give the audience hope for things getting better for the good guys in season 4.

  208. sjwenings
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Michael Tschuertz: we have seen that the last 2 seasons. I dont see how that should be a problem at the end of this season.

    You just answered your own question.

  209. Jake
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    People thinking the Purple Wedding will appear this season are being way too optimistic and not thinking logically, in my opinion. This would require a lot more casting. Very important casting that would last many more seasons. This is the single reason that this will not be included in Season 3. They will not contract the actors for a single episode this season. When has a show done that before? Has Game of thrones done that before? Cast people and only show them in the last episode of the season? Television series do not do this because of the contract problems and difficulty to get actors to agree. Also, this is not good for the audience of the show as they have only one episode to meet the characters and remember them.

    Zero chance of Purple Wedding in Season 3.

  210. Tenesmus
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    I think I need to update my thought on the final scene of Season 3 EP8 The RW, EP 10 the PW with these final scenes; Tyrion busted for regicide, Sansa with Dontos and Littlefinger killing Dontos, Sam, Bran and Coldhands, Last scene= Zombie Cat introduction

  211. Christopher Broadbent
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    Off topic but, just been to HBO UK web store and the banner on the page is an ad to say season 2 is comic to blu ray and dvd soon! i did not think it would out until the start of season three. any one got info on a date?

  212. MaryS-NJ
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    Jake,

    I think those of us who want and expect the Purple Wedding are being very logical actually, in viewing the story arc overall from the perspective of a non-booker reader who wouldn’t know about the hundreds of background characters/extras that appear on the pages but not on the screen and just wants a cohesive story with a season conclusion that has a modicum of hope.

    There are numerous important characters that were hired for a single or couple of episodes in seasons 1 and 2. There were scores of characters named in the books that are not shown on the series, some combined with other characters or just written out completely. The TV series has made the most of “less is more” when it comes to casting, but adding an appearance by Oberyn or other Dornish composite character of their creation, for a scene or 2 would be enough to tie the Dornish into the Kings Landing story arc.

  213. Michael Tschuertz
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    I disagree with this logic. people didnt quit after neds death. why should they quit after Robbs & Cats deaths? Both are not so much loved From What I see as other characters. The season ending with Tyrion/sansa wedding is alright, no?
    I just dont see D&D going we need PW to counter RW or else Season 4 will have 50% less viewers. Isnt that too much Hollywood like? Isnt HBO and this show better then that? Is Joff not a character that you LOVE to hate? Why do the people who keep arguing that Neds death was brave now argue for a typical Hollywood solution because they fear that the audience just cant take?

  214. Cary
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    Has nobody remembered Melisandre’s spell? It only makes sense that all the kings die in the same season in which the spell is cast.

  215. fiendebass
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    bring on the Red Wedding!

  216. Red Viper
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Cary:
    Has nobody remembered Melisandre’s spell? It only makes sense that all the kings die in the same season in which the spell is cast.

    not quite. Remember Davos’ rebuttle to the spell. When he points out that only 2 of the 3 would be kings have perished. So they can push off Joffs death to season 4 to play with this idea and have viewers second guess Mel’s powers. Also there is no time limit for a spell as long as it works :p

  217. Red Viper
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:19 pm | Permalink
  218. Red Viper
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Jake,

    ^this. Unless I appear in season 3 there will be no purple wedding :p

  219. Red Viper
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Entchen:
    I mentioned this on the westeros board, but nobody seemed to like my idea :/ Please note this is NOT what I think will happen, but if I were putting this show together, I might put the PW before the RW. It’s been a while since I reread SoS, but I can’t think of any reason why the RW has to be first, and just think – episode 9, season 3, Joff dies! Shocking, Tyrion’s in a great mid-season stopping point (I don’t think introducing Oberyn later would really be that hard), and things are finally looking up for the Starks. Then you come back for season 4, and right there, in episode one, bam, RW.

    That would be amazing.

    the reason why this idea doesn’t work is because if the PW happens before the RW then we will not see key scenes such as Tywins famous quote to Tyrion “explain to me how it is more honorable to kill 10,000 men in battle than a dozen in a wedding”. Instead Tyrion will be imprisoned. Also we will miss the awesome scene were Joff says “he’s dead! He’s dead! “To Sansa. Smug little Joffrey cruelly glOating to Sansa about her brothers death is pure win.

  220. Balerion
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    “Sounds to me like a wedding… ” and “But be mindful of spoilers!”

    WIC should not have mentioned the word “wedding” in this article. They are a bit spoilering theirselves.

    Not so clever, to be honest

  221. Cary
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    Red Viper: not quite. Remember Davos’ rebuttle to the spell. When he points out that only 2 of the 3 would be kings have perished. So they can push off Joffs death to season 4 to play with this idea and have viewers second guess Mel’s powers. Also there is no time limit for a spell as long as it works :p

    I think this is coming down to a matter of dramatic preferences, here, probably. In terms of TV scripting and timing, the spell adds so much for dramatic purposes. Withholding the suspension of its final result until episode 10 lends much greater dramatic suspense than watering down the intensity of it by pushing it to season 4. There is ample to leave one hanging on at the end of Season 3, while still bringing the season to an effective close by tying up the eagerly anticipated loose ends at Kings Landing by offing Joffrey. The mood changes after the purple wedding, and people get shuffled considerably after that.

    Given the life expectancy of cable shows, I also believe that they’re not anxious to draw the series out beyond 8 seasons; and will almost certainly be incorporating significant elements of AFFC and ADWD in season 4; so Season 3 should *not* end at a halfway point in ASOS but more of a 2/3 to 3/4 point.

  222. Cary
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Balerion,
    Joffrey is already engaged to Maerjorie. Robb is already engaged to Talyse (Jayne). What’s spoilerish about mentioning a wedding?

    (Forgive my poor spelling on the ladies’ names…

  223. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Jake,

    Well I agree with you but GOT did contract both Hot Pie and Lommy for five minutes in season 1. Just saying

  224. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    MaryS-NJ,

    People like this series because it is realistic and then you want to complain when there isn’t a happy ending? This is GOT, if you want a happy ending go and watch Once upon a Time. Seriously I doubt whether D@D will make descisions about where to end the series based on how depressing the ending is. Season 2′s ending wasn’t all that ahppy either.

  225. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Jen@House Stark,

    Not so much descending from on high to mix with the commoners, more of ascending from on low to mingle older and smarter gentle born folk.

  226. Cary
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    What I do think is that if the Purple Wedding is in Season 3 then it may make some kind of sense to film Tyrion/Sansa and that concurrently? While there will absolutely be many set changes, there will be many common elements.

  227. DavidBC
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    Set Dingleberry: DavidBC, its all speculation on my part but I think you’re dead wrong, a season without a conclusion would be a mistake from a storytelling perspective, the last third of storm still has a ton of stuff to cram in, and I believe a good portion of introductions that occurred in feast will be fit into season 4, this frees up season 5 to tell a truncated version of feast and dance streamlined for the small screen, the conclusions of some of the arcs saved for winds of winter could even be fit in, i love feast and dance, less than the first three books sure, but I honestly believe plenty of the material in those books can be omitted, shortened, explained through expository dialogue, etc

    I disagree that a season without a conclusion would be a storytelling mistake. Very successful shows (e.g. Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire, Lost, Etc.) have all ended critically acclaimed seasons with hard cliffhangers.

    I think your reluctance is due to you being a book reader, and wanting as much story as possible on the screen… A hard cliffhanger would frustrate you, and that is the point.

    From a TV storytelling point of veiw… IMO, the best way to end season three would be with a scene showing Lady Stark getting tossed into the Trident, and then a final shot of Grey Wind’s head sewn on to Robb’s body

    This would have almost everyone freaking out for the entire duration in between Season 3 and 4.

  228. Ours is the Fury
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Speculating that there may be a wedding is not a spoiler. There are a hundred characters, anyone could be having a wedding. It doesn’t identify the couple or if the wedding even actually happens.

  229. Jen@House Stark
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    Michael Tschuertz,

    I would dispute that those named will not be missed. As for me and many other readers, it was gut wrenching.

  230. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    Jen@House Stark,

    Seconded, my copy took a hard beating after reading the RW.

  231. Jen@House Stark
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Hurrah! I believe I have achieved the spoiler cover for want of the appropriate term! WIC correct me if I am wrong! [dances around!]

  232. Macha
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    So let me see if I got this straight: a large majority of the posters here were unsatisfied with the pacing of S2 and repeatedly pointed out how the story felt rushed and a lot of things were left out; now we’re getting not one but TWO seasons dealing with a single book, and the majority here wants to cram 3/4 of ASoS into one season, and bring forward parts of the next two books into the season after that.*shrugs* Seems legit.

  233. Jen@House Stark
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    I took it very hard. It did not deter me from reading further and being a fan, it did not lessen my love for the written word. I also do not need a happy ending. I understand characters are going to die. I just hated to lose the King in the North. Sniffles.

  234. MaryS-NJ
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    Where did I say “happy ending”? I said “hope” … for justice to be served and a response to unrelenting misery and death for the the Starks after all the treachery and cruelty that’s been been served up to them.

    In season 1 the horror of Ned’s beheading was mitigated by the Northern rebellion and the crowning of the King in the North which gave the North a cause to fight for (and hope). In season 2, Renly’s murder by Stannis was paid back by Stannis’ defeat at Blackwater, a point that Stannis makes himself afterwards.

    The Lannisters have not paid any price for their treacheries (except Tyrion) and are they due some payback for their many treacheries to date. Call it karmic debts… and you know what they say about Lannisters and debts.

    Leaving season 3 with unanswered Lannister treacheries may be too much for some fans of the show because they have gotten away with murder.

    That’s why the PW works well in the same book as a sort of karmic payback for the RW. That’s why I think both weddings need to be in season 3.

  235. Wes
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Michael Tschuertz,

    It’s not just that. Just think of all of the other plot arcs and where they’d be left off. If it ends with the RW, everyone’s sort of left hanging and none of the characters have had a full arc, or at least has not been brought to a place where — to me, at least — it feels like an appropriate place to break off for the season. If it ends with the PW, all of the other characters can be brought to a more suitable conclusion. For example, Bran can have just got to the Wall, Sam could have just gotten south of the Wall, Jon and the NW could have just fought off the raid from the Wildlings that climbed the wall and be left knowing that tens of thousands of wildlings are coming from the north, Tyrion would be captured, Sansa would be fleeing KL, Jaime could have just rescued Brienne, Arya could have just left the Hound for dead (I imagine ending the season with Sandor cursing her and asking where she’ll go, and she takes out the iron coin, looks at it, looks back at him, then says (Valar Morgulis) and walks away), and Dany…? Hers is a tough one, I think they could either end with Yunkai (not preferable) or accelerate her plot and end it with Meereen, and then flesh out her Meereen plotline more in season four. They could even skip her for the first few episodes of season four. At least this way, everyone’s brought to some type of end of an arc, even if it doesn’t fully resolve everything. That wouldn’t be the case if they ended it at the “half-way” point, not unless they changed everyone else’s plotline. Plus, doing it this way would allow them to start in on Feast and Dance in season four, and to wrap that up (hopefully with some events that we know will be in the beginning of Winds) in season five, though plotting for both of those seasons will need to be done creatively.

  236. Alan
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings:
    Those that don’t think the PW will be included in s3 seems to forget two things. 1. how else to end the entire Kings landing storyline. 2. Who ever said s4 has to end where ASOS ends? Some storylines might, others might not.

    This comment makes no sense to me. There’s concern about having a complete arc for KL in Season 3, but it’s alright if there are no real complete arcs in Season 4? The book ends in tailor made places and forcing in part of Books 4/5 aren’t going to create situations where there are good ending points.

    Why is it important for one storyline in one season but obviously not important elsewhere?

  237. patchy face
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    Christopher Broadbent,

    Yep – you can pre-order on Amazon now as well. Suspect that HBO’s definition is different than fans though. Can’t see them coming out before Feb 13 at the earliest. Hope I’m wrong!

  238. Cary
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Macha,

    That’s an unfair characterization of what people are saying. There is a difference between “want” and “expectation”

    If it were up to me, I’d like there to be 20 episodes per season with much more character development and less stuff left out. Since there are only 10 episodes per season, then we have an expectation that things are going to be a bit rushed.

    While I would want the show to go on for years and years and years, it’s unlikely to extend beyond 8 seasons. I would rather the story be concluded than dragged out and left somewhere in the midst of the 6th book.

  239. Wes
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    MaryS-NJ,

    Your kind of giving some things away in mentioning that the Lannisters do indeed receive payback for their “treacheries”. Even if you’re not talking about specific events, that’s not something anybody’s going to know without having read the books first. Even if they expect it, they wouldn’t typically know when.

  240. Wes
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    Even if Feast and Dance were put off until season five, there’s so much there (and likely a lot they’d want to change to make it more palatable for television) that it would be difficult to get a proper resolution anyway. At least, I don’t think it would be any more difficult than starting off season four with the resolution arcs to Storm before starting Feast and Dance in the same season. They will be able to find a way to leave the character arcs appropriately.

  241. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    MaryS-NJ,

    I guess I’m still the only person who thought that Stannis’ defeat was a disaster and that he should have won. Based on your entire karma argument Stannis should have been king as according to every law of succesion he is the rightful heir. That’s why (even though I think Renly would have made a good king) deserved to die, kinslaying not withstanding.
    Well I’m at book 5 and I’m still waiting for the Lannisters to pay for their crimes. Joff did not die for what he did, he died because of what he was probably going to do. Kevan the only innocent one between the lot of them died simply cause he was competent. Tywin doesnt count because he at the moment is the most sympathetic of all the Lannisters. Jaime turns around and Cersei hatches another plot.
    My point being false hope is even worse than despair, better to despair than have a false hope about what this series will offer. Like in the real world people quite often don’t end up paying for what they do. Its just the little people that suffer. Save the PW for season 4 and let’s slow down the pacing a little bit to allow for further character development.

  242. Wes
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    HOLY SPOILERS AEGON.

    Come on dude.

    EDIT: Thanks for adding in the spoiler blackout.

  243. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    Wes,

    Sorry posted, realised it wasn’t tagged and immediately fixed. Hopefully your up to speed with the books.

  244. Wes
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    I am, I’m just trying to protect others. Happy to see you caught the problem yourself and fixed it quickly.

  245. sjwenings
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Alan: This comment makes no sense to me. There’s concern about having a complete arc for KL in Season 3, but it’s alright if there are no real complete arcs in Season 4? The book ends in tailor made places and forcing in part of Books 4/5 aren’t going to create situations where there are good ending points.

    I was only saying that certain ending points could be drawn from AFFC/ADWD, and KL is one who could work this way. Though it’s one who loses a big “scene” if PW happens in s3, it still has enough, at least with a little from AFFC/ADWD added. And regardless of what we think might work. Theres no rule of any kind that says seasons have to end where books end. Period.

    I imagine for KL in s4 they would focus on Tyrion – starting with his arrest, and end maybe with him meeting up with Illyrio, seing as how seasons tend to end with characters going somewhere else. They could flesh out Cerseis story with their own ideas, as they’ve always done, and end it with her finding Tywin dead, and Tyrion gone (from affc), then switch to Tyrion on the boat. Maybe with Tyrions fate (did he get away or not?) still unanswered at the end of ep 9.

  246. MaryS-NJ
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    Wes,
    Maybe I should have said “evil acts” rather than “treacheries” but in my opinion, Cersei’s false testimony to condemn Ned was treacherous. Joffrey’s beheading of Ned instead of sending him to the Wall was treacherous. Tywin ordering the murder and rape of Rhaegar’s children after sacking Kings Landing was treacherous. Etc, etc, etc.

    My point is, there are many evils committed by the Lannisters (and Greyjoys) that have gone unanswered and letting that continue in the next season without any payback may cause some viewers to give up in disgust or just becuase it’s depressing when the good guys can’t ever seem to catch a break without more horror and misery raining down on them.

  247. MaryS-NJ
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror: MaryS-NJ, I guess I’m still the only person who thought that Stannis’ defeat was a disaster and that he should have won. Based on your entire karma argument Stannis should have been king as according to every law of succesion he is the rightful heir. That’s why (even though I think Renly would have made a good king) deserved to die, kinslaying not withstanding.Well I’m at book 5 and I’m still waiting for the Lannisters to pay for their crimes. Joff did not die for what he did, he died because of what he was probably going to do. Kevan the only innocent one between the lot of them died simply cause he was competent. Tywin doesnt count because he at the moment is the most sympathetic of all the Lannisters. Jaime turns around and Cersei hatches another plot. My point being false hope is even worse than despair, better to despair than have a false hope about what this series will offer. Like in the real world people quite often don’t end up paying for what they do. Its just the little people that suffer. Save the PW for season 4 and let’s slow down the pacing a little bit to allow for further character development.

    I agree completely that Stannis is the rightful King which makes bastard Bastard Joffrey still sitting on the throne all the more grating. But Stannis murdered his brother by black magic rather than in a defeat in the field and that’s kinslaying. Even Stannis blames his defeat on his kinslaying He paid a price for his crime. the Lannisters have not paid for theirs. Seeing some justice goes a long way to keeping the audience content, in my opinion.

  248. Wes
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    MaryS-NJ,

    My concern wasn’t over the word “treacheries”, it was over the fact that you told everyone that the Lannisters do receive payback in Season 3 or 4. That’s a spoiler.

  249. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    A woman would like to pose a question for those tossing around ideas regarding where certain events will occur in S3 and S4. What if D&D pull a “dragon theft” type plot line where they add something that we’ve never even thought of in order to tie other things together? It could happen, then all our speculation will be thrown off anyway. There are many ways to approach pacing, it will be so interesting to see how they construct the next 2 seasons. It is enjoyable to read everybody’s ideas, but we may ALL be off base!

    Re: the RW, tears will fall in the H’ghar home when that event appears. There best be a box of tissues at hand. It is known. A woman would have pounded her book onto the floor had it not been on the iPad (too expensive to trash out of emotion).

    Re: the PW appearing in the same season as the last event mentioned as a sort of “pay-back,” well it could be seen as a yin/yang situation to provide a certain balance of “one for the good guys” and “one for the bad guys” but much will depend on how many plot lines D&D decide to address for S3. It would be interesting, for example, to see Sansa floating away in a ship in one shot, and in the next to see Arya handing over the coin and being accepted onto a Bravosi vessel. For that to happen, these 2 events can’t happen too far apart to show the consequences of each in subsequent episodes together. The places in the book where siblings could ALMOST run into each other are quite poignant. Also am hoping to see Nymeria pull Cat out of the river, that would be cinematic gold IMO.

  250. Cary
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. H’ghar,

    I wish to complement you on your dramatic intuitiveness. And you certainly underscore a point I had considered making and didn’t. The writers can just about make anything work. To suggest that one thing or another is impossible is libel to set one’s self up for disappointment.

  251. Ed
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    Red Viper: the reason why this idea doesn’t work is because if the PW happens before the RW then we will not see key scenes such as Tywins famous quote to Tyrion “explain to me how it is more honorable to kill 10,000 men in battle than a dozen in a wedding”. Instead Tyrion will be imprisoned. Also we will miss the awesome scene were Joff says “he’s dead! He’s dead! “To Sansa. Smug little Joffrey cruelly glOating to Sansa about her brothers death is pure win.


    One of my all time favorite scenes. It’s REALLY well done by Roy Dotrice in the audio book, too. I can’t count the number of times I’ve drifted off to sleep listening to that scene… (or the Hound and Arya… or Jamie and Brienne in the bath… Or Jaimie and Catelyn in the dungeon)

  252. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    MaryS-NJ,

    Stannis had no choice in the matter thanks to his fickle bannermen. I probably would’ve done the same. And its not the reason for his defeat. Number 1 is Edmure Tully engaging Tywin when he shouldn’t have and number 2 was the act of leaving Mellisandre. There’s a part in ASOS where she tells Stannis if she went along things would have gone differently. Stannis’ ego got in the way with men saying that it would be Mel’s victory.
    My actual point being the real world is full of injustice the same with Westeros. When looking at the deaths of evil characters its fun to say “oh he deserved it cause of this and this” but quite often the person who does the killing carries out the deed for his or her own reasons, not the reasons we think makes the deserve death. While the RW is gut wrenching to me a huge Stark fan
    That’s the way the world works karma while a nice idea that would be awesome if it really works, is usually quite ineffective as is true justice. Giving the watchers a nice justice filled ending in imo a cop out and a far cry from the guts it takes to kill off your lead in the first season.

  253. The Queen's Hand
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Michael Tschuertz:
    rhymes with braaaap,

    Why do so many People think that there will be more Then One Wedding this seasons?

    Its not Joffery’s wedding they think will be happening, it is Tyrion and Sansa’s, which does take place before the red wedding

  254. darquemode
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    I agree.
    Westeros is not a just place by today’s standards. Good deeds bring dire consequences as well as bad deeds. There is no reward for doing “good” and there really should be no punishment for those that do “bad” things. Those acts are only “bad” if looked at from their opponents perspective. From their perpsective those same acts are the very things that kept them alive at the time, put them in power, or kept them in power.

    I really do not see heroes and villains in the saga honestly as it relates to the Iron Throne. It’s all about perspective to me and which side you are viewing everything from. No King or Queen deserves the Iron Throne, they are born onto it or they take it by force. Those that are born onto it are only born onto it because their ancestors took the Throne by force.

    The battle for the Iron Throne has no heroes or villains, only combatants.

  255. Morgan King
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Man, why do spoiler tags work in the Preview, but not in the Post sometimes?

  256. Winterfell Burning
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    Big Jim &amp; The Twins,

    They manage to make the Winterfell arc without the Reeds or Reek…

  257. Morgan King
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    So, we’ve heard a bit of adding AFFC stuff to the season, seems likely to me that’s going to be mostly stuff with the Greyjoys as they basically aren’t in ASOS at all. Also, I’m assuming that Arya’s ‘Is There Gold in Village’ equivalent is still going to happen in some fashion, and that there’s going to have to be more with Stannis to keep him in on screen. Also assuming Yunkai and Mereen are combined. With that in mind, this is how I forsee Seasons 3 and 4 breaking down major plot points by episode:

    S3E1 – Fist of the First Men, Jaime and Brienne, Cat goes to Riverrun, Tywin in KL, meet Reeds
    S3E2 – Arya wolf dream, Davos washes up, Jon meets Mance, Dany meets Selmy, Theon & Ramsay
    S3E3 – Bran+Reeds, Queen of Thorns, trip to Crasters, Ygritte+Jon, Davos imprisoned
    S3E4 – Tyrion+Shae+Varys, Edmure drama, Brave Companions, Dany in Astapor,
    S3E5 – Dornish intro, more Ramsay, Arya meets Brotherhood, Jon reaches Wall, Sansa engaged
    S3E6 – Sansa wedding, Daario+Dany, Balon dies, Talisa+Cat, Jon in caves, Hoster’s funeral
    S3E7 – Craster’s Keep, Ramsay revealed to Jaime, Dondarrion v Hound, Sansa+Dontos
    S3E8 – Storm for Bran and Jon, Arya captured by Hound, Red Viper arrives in KL, Yara goes home
    S3E9 – Dany+Dragons+Unsullied, Sam+Gilly+Coldhands, Arya fails to kill Hound
    S3E10 – Dany marches to Mereen, Jaime saves Brienne, Cat+Robb ride to Twins, Jon warns Wall
    S4E1 – Red Wedding, Arya+Hound outside, Tywin tells Tyrion, Davos finds Night’s Watch note
    S4E2 – Ygritte dies, Sam meets Bran, Dany ‘Mother’ in Mereen, Sansa+Dontos, King’s Moot
    S4E3 – Purple Wedding, Jon prepares the Wall, wolf dream of Cat
    S4E4 – Littlefinger+Sansa, Jaime back in KL, Tyrion in jail, Dany+Daario in Mereen,
    S4E5 – Tyrion’s trial, Viper v. Mountain, Jamie runs Kingsguard, Brienne seeks Sansa
    S4E6 – Euron takes over, Sansa in Eyrie, Brienne sees toll war has taken on smallfolk
    S4E7 – political drama in Mereen, Arya kills an enemy, Janos imprisons Jon
    S4E8 – Jon envoy to Mance, Sansa+Lysa, Tyrion freed, Arya leaves Hound to die
    S4E9 – Battle at the Wall, standalone episode
    S4E10 – Lady Stoneheart, Arya uses coin, Tywin+Shea killed, Littlefinger kills Lysa, Jon becomes Commander

    It’s a little thin in the late-middle of Season 4, but I think this is a fast tempo overall, and doesn’t include a whole lot of new stuff, or account for the tons of quiet character moments that make GoT so amazing.

  258. Alan
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings: I was only saying that certain ending points could be drawn from AFFC/ADWD, and KL is one who could work this way. Though it’s one who loses a big “scene” if PW happens in s3, it still has enough, at least with a little from AFFC/ADWD added. And regardless of what we think might work. Theres no rule of any kind that says seasons have to end where books end. Period.


    I imagine for KL in s4 they would focus on Tyrion – starting with his arrest, and end maybe with him meeting up with Illyrio, seing as how seasons tend to end with characters going somewhere else. They could flesh out Cerseis story with their own ideas, as they’ve always done, and end it with her finding Tywin dead, and Tyrion gone (from affc), then switch to Tyrion on the boat. Maybe with Tyrions fate (did he get away or not?) still unanswered at the end of ep 9.

    Of course there’s no rule, but really, do you really think, as an ending, parts of the beginnings of Dance and Feast work better than the ending of Storm?

    What’s better? Tyrion killing the woman he thinks he loves and his father or…Tyrion on a boat or getting offloaded in Pentos? Jon winning the battle at the wall/being elected LC or starting in on the mundane tasks of governing? Dany electing to stay in Mereen (Mother, Mother) or Dany just beginning to learn that governing is hard? Forget even that some stories — like Arya’s — require new locations if you go further or that some stories don’t need compressed plot (Bran’s)

    What’s the benefit of speeding it up? I don’t see a single storyline that really benefits from extending into Feast or Dance by any significant amount. Quite a few suffer.

    I see so many folks wanting to speed through this story, even to the point of taking a book with a tremendous crescendo of endings and losing that so that we get, what?

  259. Alan
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Morgan King:
    So, we’ve heard a bit of adding AFFC stuff to the season, seems likely to me that’s going to be mostly stuff with the Greyjoys as they basically aren’t in ASOS at all. Also, I’m assuming that Arya’s ‘Is There Gold in Village’ equivalent is still going to happen in some fashion, and that there’s going to have to be more with Stannis to keep him in on screen. Also assuming Yunkai and Mereen are combined. With that in mind, this is how I forsee Seasons 3 and 4 breaking down major plot points by episode:

    S3E1 – Fist of the First Men, Jaime and Brienne, Cat goes to Riverrun, Tywin in KL, meet Reeds
    S3E2 – Arya wolf dream, Davos washes up, Jon meets Mance, Dany meets Selmy, Theon & Ramsay
    S3E3 – Bran+Reeds, Queen of Thorns, trip to Crasters, Ygritte+Jon, Davos imprisoned
    S3E4 – Tyrion+Shae+Varys, Edmure drama, Brave Companions, Dany in Astapor,
    S3E5 – Dornish intro, more Ramsay, Arya meets Brotherhood, Jon reaches Wall, Sansa engaged
    S3E6 – Sansa wedding, Daario+Dany, Balon dies, Talisa+Cat, Jon in caves, Hoster’s funeral
    S3E7 – Craster’s Keep, Ramsay revealed to Jaime, Dondarrion v Hound, Sansa+Dontos
    S3E8 – Storm for Bran and Jon, Arya captured by Hound, Red Viper arrives in KL, Yara goes home
    S3E9 – Dany+Dragons+Unsullied, Sam+Gilly+Coldhands, Arya fails to kill Hound
    S3E10 – Dany marches to Mereen, Jaime saves Brienne, Cat+Robb ride to Twins, Jon warns Wall
    S4E1 – Red Wedding, Arya+Hound outside, Tywin tells Tyrion, Davos finds Night’s Watch note
    S4E2 – Ygritte dies, Sam meets Bran, Dany ‘Mother’ in Mereen, Sansa+Dontos, King’s Moot
    S4E3 – Purple Wedding, Jon prepares the Wall, wolf dream of Cat
    S4E4 – Littlefinger+Sansa, Jaime back in KL, Tyrion in jail, Dany+Daario in Mereen,
    S4E5 – Tyrion’s trial, Viper v. Mountain, Jamie runs Kingsguard, Brienne seeks Sansa
    S4E6 – Euron takes over, Sansa in Eyrie, Brienne sees toll war has taken on smallfolk
    S4E7 – political drama in Mereen, Arya kills an enemy, Janos imprisons Jon
    S4E8 – Jon envoy to Mance, Sansa+Lysa, Tyrion freed, Arya leaves Hound to die
    S4E9 – Battle at the Wall, standalone episode
    S4E10 – Lady Stoneheart, Arya uses coin, Tywin+Shea killed, Littlefinger kills Lysa, Jon becomes Commander

    It’s a little thin in the late-middle of Season 4, but I think this is a fast tempo overall, and doesn’t include a whole lot of new stuff, or account for the tons of quiet character moments that make GoT so amazing.

    I can’t see your S4 E1 happening there. I know plenty of people have put arguments for it, but I’d think even the strongest proponent would have to say that’s completely unlikely.

    Things I am 80+% certain of:

    The RW is in Season 3. (Robb, Cat, Arya) Ygritte dies at the end of Season 3. (Jon, Ygritte) Dracarys is at the end of Season 3. (Dany, Jorah, etc) Those are such logical ends (ep8-10) to those storylines, I think it would be odd to see anything else. I think the last is most debatable Could be the dismissal of Jorah.

  260. Morgan King
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    I just don’t like the idea of the RW as the cliffhanger – it works where it does in the books because there’s so much book left for catharsis and revenge – ending on that note seems like a rough way to do it, AND putting it at the end of the season saps it of its potential to surprise viewers.

    But moving it earlier would shortchange SO much of the first half of the book, so if they are bothering to spread the book over 2 seasons at all, that seems unlikely.

  261. Stacia
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    I’m not sure if all the elements would line up, but visually the final episode of the season cutting between The Red Wedding and the The Purple Wedding would make an incredibly shocking finale. It might also temper the reaction. I don’t think I can stomach watching the Red Wedding. I can’t imagine what non-readers will think and leaving a whole year for them to stew on GoT killing off popular characters might leave viewers with a sour taste in their mouths.

    Rather than ending the season with a complete loss for Team Stark, taking out Joffrey at the same time just completely changes the game.

  262. Alan
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Morgan King: Alan, I just don’t like the idea of the RW as the cliffhanger – it works where it does in the books because there’s so much book left for catharsis and revenge – ending on that note seems like a rough way to do it, AND putting it at the end of the season saps it of its potential to surprise viewers. But moving it earlier would shortchange SO much of the first half of the book, so if they are bothering to spread the book over 2 seasons at all, that seems unlikely.

    I’m pretty sure it is Episode 8 for reasons I’ve stated above, but of course they could choose anywhere. I don’t think that will be a huge rush on the first half of the book, but I could be wrong.

  263. The Instrumentalist
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    I really don’t think D&D will rush into the PW just to satisfy the viewers’ need for revenge… in the end they are going to make this adaptation how they want to, and if they have any sense of integrity they would not bend over backwards to accommodate us or anyone else. The whole plot needs fleshing out – with the Red Viper and Gregor, Sansa’s hairnet and the godswood. Ending it with Davos’ objection to Mel’s spell (there’s only been two) and possible even the introduction of Uncat seems fine to me. I don’t want them to butcher this story. [Posted by accident, edited to finish but can't put spoiler tags?]

  264. WildSeed
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    Ok havimg read all the comments I am now convinced that the story needs to be slowed down in order for character development to feel realistic. That means pushing the PW to season 4 (gosh I hope) I have no idea what to do in episode 9, but for episode 10 I would end with the slaughter that is the RW, just imagine the screen fading to black as yu hear the sounds of men fighting and dying, with Robb’s fate unknown. THen season 4 opens with the Wolf on Robb’s head scene.

    That perspective seems to be in agreement among the posts. Where what scene
    ends up being placed is a bit sketchy. Interesting thought about S4 opening scene.
    Alan and Victarian posted an interesting S3 Episode Outline, darquemode too.
    I hope the network people occasionally read the exchanges here because there’s
    some good material here.

  265. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    Morgan King,

    There is no way that the RW will be pushed back to episode 1 of season 4. That is the most memorable moment in this series. Critics usually receive the first 3 or 4 episodes to review before each season starts. If the RW happens early in season 4 then a lot of fans will be spoiled.

  266. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    The RW can’t end on a cliffhanger. We have to see Roose stroll up to Robb and utter the famous words “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” and plunge his sword through Robb’s chest.

  267. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    MaryS-NJ,

    I guess Jaime losing his hand doesn’t count as something bad happening to the Lannisters?

  268. darquemode
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    Wow, you think they will go that far in Jon’s arc in Season 3?
    I think the natural end point for Jon’s Season 3 arc is around his escape from the Wildlings or his arrival back at Castle Black to warn the NW. I don’t think they would split the Wildling assault between seasons and stop after Jon kills Ygritte personally. I think Jon’s Season 3 arc ends before the Wildings breech the Wall.

    I know some want to combine the slave cities too, but that’s another thing I do not want happening. That only prolongs Dany’s stay in Meereen and that long drawn out time in Meereen is something I would think D&D want to avoid. I would be surprised if Dany reaches Meereen in Season 3. Some think Astapor in the finale spot with another season ending with “Dracarys!”, but I think Yunkai is the perfect finale point. She frees the slaves and they all exit cheering her “Mother, Mother!” and then Season 4 can be her conquest of Meereen. Although I would be ok with Dany taking one city each season. Qarth in Season 2, Astapor in Season 3, Yunkai in Season 4 and Meereen in Season 5, but it feels a little drawn out to me that way.

    You could be right of course, I just hoped that we would get less of some arcs if we get 66-75% of the King’s Landing arc from ASOS like most people assume.

  269. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    darquemode,

    I don’t see any possible way to drag Jon’s story out to the point that he doesn’t even climb over the Wall in season 3. Talk about a storyline not having a resolution. They must give Jon a better story arc in season 3. His season 2 story was the most disappointing. He needs something big to happen. Escaping the wildlings and defending the Wall would be a great season 3 end point. There would still be plenty left to do in season 4(leading the defense against Mance and the wildlings North of the Wall,being arrested by Janos Slynt,treating with Mance,Stannis arriving,being offered Winterfell, and being named LC)

  270. WildSeed
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    BrianD:
    Not sure if this has been posted before?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19260722

    Brian

    WTF ! Someone left behind the answers to the quiz :D Seriously I wonder if this has
    repercussions.

  271. WildSeed
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Just a short time ago we here were given glimpses of cast and site preparations
    presumedly for season #3. With weddings and introduction to the
    Tully family , the Reeds, Mance, Orell , campsitesat the Twins, and
    the possible inclusion of Daario and boy/Ramsey it’s just possible
    that that we have high expectations for just one season. Is it out of the
    question that filming is being done all over the place to maximize footage of
    story themes which may be seamed together for more than one season, S3-5.
    Large movie projects like Lord of the Rings were filmed back to back with bits
    added later as warranted. The result produced a story with excellent continuity
    and would allow for further editing where applicable. I know GoT isn’t
    Hollywood but w/o the A-list celebrity $$demands and promotions ,cable
    has an advantage to put on a worthy production that spells a win for all. I’m
    just a novice at considering any this but I think speculating that all the above
    to be included in a single season is far fetched ( now that I have gotten over the
    excitement of it ).

  272. WildSeed
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    MaryS-NJ,

    Stannis had no choice in the matter thanks to his fickle bannermen. I probably would’ve done the same. And its not the reason for his defeat. Number 1 is Edmure Tully engaging Tywin when he shouldn’t have and number 2 was the act of leaving Mellisandre. There’s a part in ASOS where she tells Stannis if she went along things would have gone differently. Stannis’ ego got in the way with men saying that it would be Mel’s victory.
    My actual point being the real world is full of injustice the same with Westeros. When looking at the deaths of evil characters its fun to say “oh he deserved it cause of this and this” but quite often the person who does the killing carries out the deed for his or her own reasons, not the reasons we think makes the deserve death. While the RW is gut wrenching to me a huge Stark fan That’s the way the world works karma while a nice idea that would be awesome if it really works, is usually quite ineffective as is true justice. Giving the watchers a nice justice filled ending in imo a cop out and a far cry from the guts it takes to kill off your lead in the first season.

    Well struck. We are not discussing Utopian ideals. From the arrival of the First Men
    and the Andals to the Targaryeon Dynasty, the Iron Throne and even fiefdoms/
    regions were acquired by force or decree. The natives and defiled suffer except
    for the hope that this may right itself. Whether it results from Illyrio & Vary’s
    scheming, Dorne maneuverings, or the will of the Free Cities there will be change
    to the current realm /status quo. Seeking equilibrium for the battle of earth and
    spiritual order may actually encompass all as the mystics and Greenseers gain their
    balance. We shall see what is more relevant, perceived justice or equilibrium.

  273. WildSeed
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    WildSeed,

    The RW can’t end on a cliffhanger. We have to see Roose stroll up to Robb and utter the famous words “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” and plunge his sword through Robb’s chest.

    It would make for a great theatric moment won’t it ? There are many such coming up
    up and I hope these won’t get muffled out because of so many explosive happenings.
    I know my head nearly blew when I read it .

  274. ANiceChianti
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    I honestly think there is zero chance of PW in Season 3. It’s just not feasible. Think about it. Arya alone has a HUGE arc before the RW even. Jon’s scenes will take up a lot of time this season as well… probably. And don’t forget that that some scenes that were not “onscreen” in the books, but discussed in ADWD involving Theon are being moved to Season 3. Trying to fit in all three weddings would be impossible if any of the characters (except Joffrey) are to be done justice.

    Regarding Jon, I strongly believe that they will end his arc this season in one of two places… with his escape from the wildlings, or with Ygritte’s death. Personally, I hope it’s the latter, but accomplishing that would require a whole lot of Jon screentime. I think he’s due after last season, but if so, it would be another reason why PW would need to be slated for Season 4.

    Also, I agree with previous comments about the absence of the Dornish being a problem with squeezing that particular scene into Season 3.

    Finally, as a book reader, and knowing what’s coming, I’m more than happy to have Jack Gleeson around for an extra season. He’s doing a great job.

  275. ANiceChianti
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Okay, so I just read the post about the returning cast members, and while it may possibly support my hypothesis about Jon, I don’t know what’s up with the inclusion of the Arryns. I can’t think of any possible way that their portion of the story would fit into Season 3 in just 10 episodes.

    I’m very curious.

  276. ANiceChianti
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    Update: So, if the Littlefinger/Lysa marriage scene speculation is true (and I like it… it makes sense), then I stand behind my original suspicions above.

    Still very curious.

    (Sorry for the multiple posts.)

  277. WildSeed
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    ANiceChianti:
    Okay, so I just read the post about the returning cast members, and while it may possibly support my hypothesis about Jon, I don’t know what’s up with the inclusion of the Arryns.I can’t think of any possible way that their portion of the story would fit into Season 3 in just 10 episodes.

    I’m very curious.

    Only the directors and producers know with certainty. There may be multiple
    season footage occurring or availability issues for the actors. Interruptions or
    distractions may detract from the series especially if it’s a major character or
    theme. Honestly I’m as clueless as you but there a plan in place that makes no
    sense to us at the moment. All we can do is speculate or obsess by looking for
    clues. Thankfully WiC and Westeros are the bloodhounds with their noses
    following the scent.

  278. Alan
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    darquemode:
    Alan,

    Wow, you think they will go that far in Jon’s arc in Season 3?
    I think the natural end point for Jon’s Season 3 arc is around his escape from the Wildlings or his arrival back at Castle Black to warn the NW. I don’t think they would split the Wildling assault between seasons and stop after Jon kills Ygritte personally. I think Jon’s Season 3 arc ends before the Wildings breech the Wall.

    I know some want to combine the slave cities too, but that’s another thing I do not want happening. That only prolongs Dany’s stay in Meereen and that long drawn out time in Meereen is something I would think D&D want to avoid. I would be surprised if Dany reaches Meereen in Season 3. Some think Astapor in the finale spot with another season ending with “Dracarys!”, but I think Yunkai is the perfect finale point. She frees the slaves and they all exit cheering her “Mother, Mother!” and then Season 4 can be her conquest of Meereen. Although I would be ok with Dany taking one city each season. Qarth in Season 2, Astapor in Season 3, Yunkai in Season 4 and Meereen in Season 5, but it feels a little drawn out to me that way.

    You could be right of course, I just hoped that we would get less of some arcs if we get 66-75% of the King’s Landing arc from ASOS like most people assume.

    You may be right on Jon. However, hear me out: For some reason I think of the wilding assault from the South by Styr as completely separate as Mance’s attack from the North. And Ygritte typifies Jon’s flirting with the wildling lifestyle, as well as being his romantic interest — losing her and walking away from the wildings is a strong arc. And from a budget perspective, they may want to separate the battle from the South from the Battle from the North — could get expensive.

    I could see a situation where they stop at Queenscrown (and perhaps Ygritte dies there) but I still think the arc is best after the attack from the South. That leaves for Season 4 giving Jon command, Mance’s attack (which could span more than one episode), Stannis saving the day, Jon being briefly imprisoned and eventually being named LC.

    I think that’s PLENTY for Season 4 and it fits character arcs better. Season 3 is about Jon choosing the NW over the Wildlings. Season 4 is about Jon assuming leadership and choosing the NW over Winterfell. As an added bonus, the sooner Mance’s attack comes, the sooner Stannis, Davos and Melisandre have something to do.

    Dany is much tougher to me, where Jon works perfectly in my mind. In Storm, Dany’s story is abut her moving from entitled but strong willed girl to a strong willed woman who actually thinks about what she wants. This may be my interpretation, but I think it is a huge shift that Dany goes from attacking Astapor to further her own ambitions to deciding to stay in Mereen to help her people.

    How do you split that across two seasons? There are three conquests, plus Daario, the departure of Jorah as well. Do you span the arc across three seasons? Do you continue her “Dany getting stronger and not so whiny” in Season 3 and then in Season 4 make her realize the world isn’t here for her to get her crown?

    I could see it many ways, but I favor her asserting herself (Dracarys) despite losing Jorah in Season 3 to revealed betrayal (she does things for herself) and then skipping or handwaving Yunkai and focusing on how Astapor degrades and the consequences of her choices and her final decision to stay.

  279. Alan
    Posted August 15, 2012 at 11:54 pm | Permalink

    ANiceChianti:
    Okay, so I just read the post about the returning cast members, and while it may possibly support my hypothesis about Jon, I don’t know what’s up with the inclusion of the Arryns.I can’t think of any possible way that their portion of the story would fit into Season 3 in just 10 episodes.

    I’m very curious.

    It’s probably just a check-in. Perhaps Littlefinger will go there and return for the royal wedding and we’ll see Lysa mooning over him, etc.

  280. YvyB
    Posted August 16, 2012 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    While we are way off topic, let me just at YvyB you have thee most irratating name to type when it;s 3am. I have to scroll up everytime to see which letters are capitols and which aren’t lol!

    Ha Ha! That’s my name, what can I say? :D

  281. Nick Larter
    Posted August 16, 2012 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    I’ve been musing.

    Queenscrown.

    Course they could just CGI it, but if they didn’t, where would be a good location?

    Narrow Water Castle sprang to mind:-

    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/photos/NarrowwaterCastle.JPG

  282. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 16, 2012 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    darquemode,

    There is no good and evil as Darqeumode pointed out, only perspective. What there is though in abundance is weakness and strenght and the sad thing is that when the strong play their Game of Thrones, the weak are always the ones who suffer. Remember the “they lay with lions” scene? Many could argue the Starks most cloesly embody the good guys, yet there are many atrocities commited by their army. While Robb certainly is the most noble of all the army commanders it is that same nobleness and sense of justice that gets him killed. So one might say his good deeds brought the reward of death.

  283. Michael Tschuertz
    Posted August 16, 2012 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    hey it was hard for me too. I just dont get the logic behind
    we need something “good”to happen to counter RW or the viewers will run.

    also

    Macha,

    this!

  284. Michael Tschuertz
    Posted August 16, 2012 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Wes,

    As I said havnt read ASOS since 2002. If memory is correct then there is not sooo much story after PW. Why do 3/4 of ASOS in S3 and leave so less for S4?

    Also why do people feel the need to put parts of AFFC & ADWD in S4? If I remember correctly the endings in Book 3 are quit good.
    And as said before:
    why rush things. didnT S2 feeled rushed? why the need to rush now?
    besides I know you guys fear about the Show ending before THE ENDING because shows on HBO & co. normally dont run that long. Stop worryinfg about it. As long as HBO makes a profit they will do the show. I am worried about D&D too, but then again they keep on telling us: we knew that a great journey that would be. a decade of work. They will have to share more and more writing power with others I am sure and just do production and rewrites in the future.

  285. OldGran
    Posted August 16, 2012 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    I hope they don’t try to cram too many weddings into one season. What I like to call the “Awkward Wedding” or AW has to come before the RW imo, but only after we get all the delicious interaction between Margaery, Cersei, Queen of Thorns and Sansa. This should not be too rushed.

  286. WildSeed
    Posted August 16, 2012 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    WildSeed,

    darquemode,

    There is no good and evil as Darqeumode pointed out, only perspective. What there is though in abundance is weakness and strenght and the sad thing is that when the strong play their Game of Thrones, the weak are always the ones who suffer. Remember the “they lay with lions” scene? Many could argue the Starks most cloesly embody the good guys, yet there are many atrocities commited by their army. While Robb certainly is the most noble of all the army commanders it is that same nobleness and sense of justice that gets him killed. So one might say his good deeds brought the reward of death.

    I agree here and in my previous post. Life is quite a balance, is no ? During that
    process both sides scurry towards a victory as one perceives it to be until equilibrium
    is achieved favoring no one. That’s not the same as good vs evil, just the laws of
    nature that trumps man any day or millennium. I was a House Stark supporter with
    book one but quickly abandoned favorites with the telling of the story. Even as I read
    ADWD I was learning fresh material as it pertained to certain houses or individuals
    ( especially the Starks and the Northern Bannermen with special reference
    to Lady Dustin
    it seems the devil is in the details. Every action has a purpose
    behind it which of course relates the individual relaying it. Everyone seems to
    have an agenda so it’s often bias from the start. As a reader and non participant
    I put away judgement until there is enough insight presented to make a conclusion.
    Let’s see, when is the last book of the series being written ? :D

  287. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 16, 2012 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Who knows, last book miht cast the Lannisters in such a light that it appears they were the good guys from the beginning. Wonder when D@D plan on revealing to the audience why exactly Jaime killed Aerys and why it was his proudest moment.

  288. WildSeed
    Posted August 16, 2012 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    WildSeed,

    Who knows, last book miht cast the Lannisters in such a light that it appears they were the good guys from the beginning. Wonder when D@D plan on revealing to the audience why exactly Jaime killed Aerys and why it was his proudest moment.

    You know, there is much to said about Tywin Lannister and Aerys Targaryeon.
    They have a history and a working relationship. Tywin had expectations
    of joining his family with the Targaryeons and felt betrayed with the choosing
    of a Dornish wife
    . There is much we don’t know. Tywin is another strong
    man of character I had conditional respect for. He is a balance of cruel and
    intelligence, indifferent to most but quite aware when compromise is warranted.
    He makes for a great King’s Hand if not ruler. I was teeny bit sad about the…
    you know. Not a dignified exit and his children so disappointing. I wonder
    if stories are true that Aerys had an affair with lady Joanna that caused Tywin
    to leave Kings Landing ??
    Everyone has a story it seems.

  289. WildSeed
    Posted August 16, 2012 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    I wonder whom the actual 3 deaths are. If Hoster Tully ‘s funeral has already
    taken place we won’t get to make much of an acquaintance but it explains the
    Tully Sigil from earlier thread. I’m not ready to review the details of the Twins
    just yet
    . Could be important or not.

  290. DHVale
    Posted August 16, 2012 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    The wedding theory makes sense and could be either the Red Wedding, Joffrey’s wedding or Tyrion/Sansas wedding (Unless of course any of them are cut or pushed back to season 4). The picture of the set seems like it could be Vargo Hoat’s and co. camp?

  291. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 18, 2012 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed: You know, there is much to said about Tywin Lannister and Aerys Targaryeon.
    They have a history and a working relationship. Tywin had expectations

    WildSeed: You know, there is much to said about Tywin Lannister and Aerys Targaryeon.
    They have a history and a working relationship. Tywin had expectations
    of joining his family with the Targaryeons and felt betrayed with the choosing
    of a Dornish wife
    . There is much we don’t know. Tywin is another strong
    man of character I had conditional respect for. He is a balance of cruel and
    intelligence, indifferent to most but quite aware when compromise is warranted.
    He makes for a great King’s Hand if not ruler. I was teeny bit sad about the…
    you know. Not a dignifiedexit and his children so disappointing. I wonder
    if stories are true that Aerys had an affair with lady Joanna that caused Tywin
    to leave Kings Landing ??
    Everyone has a story it seems.

    of joining his family with the Targaryeons and felt betrayed with the choosing
    of a Dornish wife
    . There is much we don’t know. Tywin is another strong
    man of character I had conditional respect for. He is a balance of cruel and
    intelligence, indifferent to most but quite aware when compromise is warranted.
    He makes for a great King’s Hand if not ruler. I was teeny bit sad about the…
    you know. Not a dignifiedexit and his children so disappointing. I wonder
    if stories are true that Aerys had an affair with lady Joanna that caused Tywin
    to leave Kings Landing ??
    Everyone has a story it seems.

    The Tywin/Aerys antagonism even goes farther according to some theories. One is that Jaime and Cersei are Aerys’ bastards through his raping Joanna Lannister. This is hilarious and evil since it would make Joffrey the rightful claimant anyway! Not to mention that Jaime could also be Azor Ahai.

  292. Winterfell91
    Posted September 22, 2012 at 1:22 am | Permalink

    Michael Tschuertz,

    Joff and Margarey Tyrion and Sansa


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