Quick Hits: Emmy Odds, Pop Culture, and Joe Dempsie
By Ours is the Fury on in Media, Press.

Casting news has slowed but there’s still plenty of Game of Thrones discussion in the media this week.

  • The show’s prominence in pop culture continues with a Lannister catchphrase on Suits, and a photographic reference in The Office‘s poster for their 9th and final season.
  • Showbiz award site Gold Derby puts Game of ThronesEmmy odds for Best Drama at 50-1. Ouch!
  • Matthew Yglesias of Slate takes a look at “Westeros’ Uneven Level of Technological Progress”. He also has a piece on Meereenese guilds and occupational licensing, offering insight into Daenerys’s difficult situation in the later books.
  • Joe Dempsie has two new interviews out this week. He talked to the Guardian about his new BBC show Murder, and spoke with Idol Magazine. He had this to say about working on Game of Thrones:

    You’re also such a small cog in such a big machine and that’s actually quite nice, I know a lot of actors want to be the centre of everything but with this it’s more of a team effort and you have to get on with the work yourself because the director has a million other things he has to think about, they trust that you know what you’re doing.

  • Game of Thrones will make its free-to-air debut in New Zealand next month on the Prime network, after some editing to comply with the rules of the Broadcasting Standards Authority. This would remove much of the nudity and graphic violence from the show.

Ours is the Fury: One has to wonder exactly how long the episodes will be when they air on Prime, after the editing is done.


203 Comments

  1. Jack
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    Don’t forget Sophie Turner was featured in Nylon Magazine’s TV Issue! Her photo actually introduced the segment including 26 other stars, which says a lot about the visibility of GoT.

  2. Mormegil
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Heard the GoT Theme tune on the TV earlier from another room.

    Thought we might be getting an airing on Irish channel RTE but no. It was being used in a promo for the ongoing Gaelic Football Championship.

  3. Tír Airgid
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    Mormegil,

    I know! Me and my boyfriend looked at each other in disbelief. I smiled, and he went “Ye people are taking over the world!”. Yep. We are. Get used to it. hehe.

  4. Richard
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    That article is shoehorning a GoT reference in that OFFICE poster. Just because it’s a living chess match = GoT ? Huh?

  5. steveo
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    Read the comments on the Meerenese guilds article…… some interesting themes

  6. KG
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Ha an edited GoT is going to run about as long as an Adult Swim cartoon.

    1:00 A. M. Game of Thrones: Winter is Coming
    1:15 A. M. Game of Thrones: The Kingsroad

    etc

  7. KG
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    I wouldn’t worry about that 50-1 odds thing, either. The article seems blissfully unaware that The Newsroom is tanking hard, so I’m not too impressed with their “insider acumen.”

  8. Winturd
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    With regards to the “Uneven Level of Technological Progress” article’s mention of lack of gunpowder, I recall while reading a feast for crows- during Jaimie & the Freys siege of Riverrun, imagining how things would’ve been different if only Riverrun had some guns/explosives/bazookas.. the Blackfish would’ve totally destroyed those fucking Freys [to my satisfaction].

  9. DavosFTW!
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    wow so the kiwis will be the first to edit GoT down for free to air. Good on ‘em. Though the kiwis could really use some titilation. Their accent is the singlemost unattractive accent in the world. One of the worst mistakes I’ve ever made was paying a kiwi stripper for a lapdance, hot body, wretched accent, wouldn’t shut up. Hopefully there is still a bit of nudity left in this version of the show.

    I wonder when we’ll get a free to air edited version in Australia. Its not like the kiwis to beat us to something. LOL

  10. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Not really my type of news, but apparently Jon Snow and Ygritte are a couple…

    http://www.tmz.com/2012/08/24/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-ygritte-kit-harington-rose-leslie-dating/

  11. Marc Blazel
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    As much as I love GoT the best drama Emmy really should go to Breaking Bad. Last season broke so much ground and deserves the award much more than Mad Men, which has been going stale for a while now.

  12. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    I really think those old farts on the Emmy board should be fired. Same goes with those on the Academy.
    When I watched the series with my younger brother I skipped the nudity and sexscenes, you miss quite a bit although it’s still possible to get the gist of things.

  13. sjwenings
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    I’m just glad (though not surprised) that GoT are nominated for best drama once again.

    Though with next season, one might just dare hope for an emmywin in that category…

  14. Ours is the Fury
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets,

    That wasn’t an oversight on my part. TMZ is trash, and I’m not a fan of poking around actors’ personal lives.

  15. Rita Jones
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    Game of Thrones is behind DOWNTON ABBEY? The last season of Downton was straight up ridiculous: the disfigured American posing as the dead cousin plot line was so bad it was funny. That makes it camp, not drama. And don’t even get me started on the ex-wife who killed herself to ruin Mr. Bates’ happiness. The first season was excellent, the second season was just hilarious.

    GOT’s odds must be based on the critics biases against premium cable AND the fantasy drama, not show quality. I was shocked Downton Abbey was even nominated.

  16. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Don’t blame you. Just figured some people would be interested, considering how “meta” the whole thing is.

  17. Not Today
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    Well, when the first season aired on free TV in Germany they cut scenes as well. My impression was that they didn’t cut the sex scenes but therefore the violent scenes. Might be wrong, though, I didn’t watch the whole episodes. But ripping-the-tongue-out-Drogo was definitely edited.

  18. Black as Snow
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    When I watched the series with my younger brother I skipped the nudity and sexscenes, you miss quite a bit although it’s still possible to get the gist of things.

    Your Grace, how old is your younger brother? I was thinking of trying to do the same with my nephew, but I wasn’t sure if the series would make sense without the sexposition.

  19. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    KG:
    I wouldn’t worry about that 50-1 odds thing, either. The article seems blissfully unaware that The Newsroom is tanking hard, so I’m not too impressed with their “insider acumen.”

    Yeah, we all know GOT is not going to win best drama just like last year but i don’t need some lame ass critic that doesn’t even know what’s he talking about with his “insider” comments .

  20. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    BTW , am i the only one who can’t stand Homeland yet it seems everyone loves it for some reason ? I tried to watch 5 episodes because i like Damian Lewis and Claire Danes but the plot is so uninteresting and the characers are so boring that i just couldn’t take it anymore and i gave up . I understand why some people like it because the show resembles 24 , hell it’s even made by the people who did 24 but just like that show i feel it’s not really for my taste .

  21. Winturd
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    ” … the director has a million other things he has to think about, they trust that you know what you’re doing” I believe could be why some of the scenes in season 2 sucked.. Actors could benefit from some pointers from the directors every now and then..

  22. Al Swearengen
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    I can just picture Dwight from The office enjoying GOT and being a Lannister fan.

  23. Al Swearengen
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Honestly I feel GOT should have won best drama last year as this season wasn’t as good IMO, this year though it should be between Mad Men and Breaking Bad.

    GOT’s year will come during season 3 or 4.

  24. MedievalFantasy
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    I seriously hate Breaking Bad and Mad Men…. At least BB is ending, and Mad Men might not last much longer, which gives GoT more of an advantage!

  25. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    MedievalFantasy:
    I seriously hate Breaking Bad and Mad Men…. At least BB is ending, and Mad Men might not last much longer, which gives GoT more of an advantage!

    I hate Mad Men too but for the same reason as Homeland , boring uninteresting characters and plot . Others may hate me for it but it’s just my opinion , it doesn’t matter if a show has great actors if it does not captivate me.

  26. Charles
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    MedievalFantasy,

    They are both much better shows than GOT, and should be what GOT should strive to be, in terms of excellence.

    GOT needs better writers. Much of last season was marred by mediocre, sometimes awful, writing.

  27. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Black as Snow,

    He is 15, something you definetly need to do is quite a bit of exposition of your own especially as to the motivations of certain characters. I don’t think it would work very well without someone being there to explain things. But if you watch it with your nephew then it’s defintely possible.

  28. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    You are not the only one, recorded and watched about eight episodes. Missed the ninth one and I was like “oh no! I need to find out what happened!” never did, and you know what I couldn’t care less.

  29. Marya
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Someone here has watched Bunheads? Because they did a a couple of references to GoT in two episodes. I think that even one of the episodes’ title was something like ” No One Takes Khaleesis Dragons”.

  30. Jack
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Rita Jones,

    Even with DA, GoT still can’t compete realistically with Breaking Bad or Homeland.

  31. Jack
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    Then it’s a good thing you aren’t an Emmy voter.

  32. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Jack:
    Claudiu Gherganu,

    Then it’s a good thing you aren’t an Emmy voter.

    Yeah, i wouldn’t want to be one of those biased idiots anyway but thanks for the remark against me even though i said it’s my opinion . And seriously, 4 times winner when Breaking Bad and other shows deserved more than this piece of shit overrated, mediocre,crap show ? I didn’t want to insult it but you pissed me off . I’m not gonna jump on the bandwagon like a sheep just because everyone does it, i say it how i think it is .

  33. jkb
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    breaking bad is the first show since sopranos imo that is equally awesome across the board throughout all seasons. this season is just CRAZY, i fucking love it.

    i’ve been re-watching GoT this week and i’ll just say that S2, while still very good, is somewhat inconsistent in quality. i don’t think it’s gonna win, not because some random foolio on the internet said so, but because it just don’t deserve it this year (it did last year).

  34. Jack
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    I’m not saying it deserves to win again (or that it deserved to win last year), but it’s a show with spectacular writing, acting, and directing. And yes, it’s a slow-paced show, but that’s the point. In the end, you really see how far characters have developed. It’s a shame you fail to see that.

    And I hope Homeland or Breaking Bad wins this year because both shows are fantastic, and much better than GoT.

  35. Chris
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    The main thing GoT lacks is the consistently top-notch writing of shows like Mad Men or Breaking Bad. I think MM has slipped a little, or maybe just gotten a little stale, but Breaking Bad seems to get better every year.

    Even as a GoT nerd, there’s no way I could put it ahead of those shows in terms of overall quality. I do enjoy watching it more than Mad Men, though.

  36. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    Sheesh you seriously need to calm down some, all that anger can’t be good for the heart.

  37. darquemode
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Chris,

    Agreed.
    I think this year Thrones slipped a bit in the writing deparment, so I can understand those odds for the most part. Shows like Breaking Bad, Mad Men and I would add Boardwalk Empire are just more consistent and that can make a difference.

  38. John M Webster
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    I hardly think GoT’s chances of winning have anything whatsoever to do with it’s quality. Personally, I think it wipes the floor with the competition this past year – but the Emmy voters would never pick it. I highly doubt they ever will.

  39. darquemode
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    Agreed.
    Last year was their surprise chance, they have little chance this year, but maybe in 2 years when Breaking Bad is done and if D&D’s writing do justice to Storm of Swords Season 3 or 4 of Game of Thrones will have better odds.

  40. Winturd
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Jack,

    Charles,
    I wonder whether D&D will actually ever see our criticism of their poor writing in season 2.. I know that writers get very pricky when their work is criticized.. therefore I know most likely things will only get worse as GoT progresses, but I still have a glimmer of hope that they received some criticism and are prepared to make some new changes for next season..

  41. darquemode
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    I have mixed feelings about Homeland, but for very different reasons….

    I think the first 5 or 6 episodes were some of the best TV has had to offer in a very long while! Brilliant, tight writing, nuanced acting and a story that had a direction.

    Then the series started getting sloppy and meandering a bit. All explained by the showrunners/writers did not have their endgame figured out. Because of that they went back and forth with various (often contradictory) ideas and the writing was down considerably from the previous episodes.

    Somewhere around Episode 9 or 10 they started to work on their season’s endgame and finally decided how they would end the season. At that point they started pulling things together and putting everything in the place it needed to be for their newly fleshed out finale to make sense. Again, this felt sloppy to me after such a tight first half of the season.

    For me though the worst part was the finale. Just Bad. I call it “the episode that cried wolf”… So many times they built the tension only to make it a non-event in the end, that by the time the legitimate event came around I no longer was on the edge of my seat. They had lost me earlier in the finale… *Shrug*

  42. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Winturd,

    The writing was inconsistent, but for reasons other than the typical ‘they didn’t stay 100% true to the books’ complaint. It has been my thought all along that the writing slipped in season 2 because the production was rushed compared to season 1. Hopefully now that they have more experience with the production timelines the writing will improve.

  43. darquemode
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Winturd,

    I doubt we have much of an effect on them honestly. A lot of what we say is based on them adapting a 14 episode book into 10 episodes. I think that honestly they would have done many things differently if they had more episodes, but they had few options…

    The other aspect of why I think they don’t notice our criticism much is that there is more positive fan repsonse for many of the very things many of us disliked. While I loathed Dany’s arc in Season 2 and only slightly less disliked Robb’s and Jon’s arcs…. many people liked their arcs more than what was in the books. Oh well… different strokes and all that….

    I’m both very hopeful and very fearful about Season 3 and moving forward though if I am honest. The first season was as good as it was mostly due to the soruce material being very linear and having a distinct beginning and ending. Last year needed much more adaptation and the following seasons will require even more than last season did.

    I’m very intrigued to see how they accomplish their adaptation for Season 3 and beyond.

  44. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    If I were to rank the Emmy nominated shows and their seasons it would be:

    1. Breaking Bad
    2. Homeland
    3. Mad Men
    4. Game of Thrones
    5. Boardwalk Empire
    6. Downton Abbey

    Breaking Bad should win in a landslide for their spectacular 4th season. But Mad Men will win for it’s 5th season, which I believe was it’s weakest. Homeland is the fresh new face that had a strong freshman season. I think it has better odds of upsetting Mad Men than BB. I don’t believe Game of Thrones will ever win an Emmy, no matter how good the show is. I thought the show was deserving of winning last year. Seasons 3 and 4 should be the high point of the series, but the voters will likely never reward a fantasy series. I’m just happy that they even recognize the show enough to nominate it.

  45. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    Claudiu Gherganu,

    Sheesh you seriously need to calm down some, all that anger can’t be good for the heart.

    Yes, i admit i reacted kinda wrong but i had a bad day and that just added to it .

  46. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Winturd:
    darquemode,

    Jack,

    Charles,
    I wonder whether D&D will actually ever see our criticism of their poor writing in season 2.. I know that writers get very pricky when their work is criticized.. therefore I know most likely things will only get worse as GoT progresses, but I still have a glimmer of hope that they received some criticism and are prepared to make some new changes for next season..

    Well first of all you don’t speak for everyone when you say the writing is worse, i don’t think that, but unfortunately yeah it’s probably going to get worse by the time they get to AFFC and ADWD considering they are both turds of books , even though the book purists won’t admit it the quality of the first three books it’s not there anymore , sorry to say it .

  47. wraithbone
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    Its awesome that Prime has chosen to take on GoT. Alot of my friends dont have Sky (satellite TV) and SoHo (the main HBO content provider in NZ) is on top of Sky and costs extra.
    So now they can see what I am always rambling on about when I say how awesome it is.

    Considering we got Homeland, True Blood and many a film un-edited on free to air I am surprised to hear about the editing actually. Its probably Prime, however, that made the decision to edit it, not the NZ Broadcasting Authority.
    Prime isn’t known for having the youngest of target audiences.

  48. WildSeed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    I really think those old farts on the Emmy board should be fired. Same goes with those on the Academy.
    When I watched the series with my younger brother I skipped the nudity and sexscenes, you miss quite a bit although it’s still possible to get the gist of things.

    Were episodes edited where you’re located or did you add your expertise with the scenes ?

  49. Chris
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    I have to throw in that I really think season 2 of Boardwalk Empire was overlooked by a lot of people. Season one was definitely a slow burn, but I thought season 2 was really strong. And in terms of writing, directing, acting and general production values, it has to be towards the top of the list, IMO.

  50. WildSeed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    Pastor_of_Muppets,

    That wasn’t an oversight on my part. TMZ is trash, and I’m not a fan of poking around actors’ personal lives.

    Well stated on both points. TMZ is indeed ” Trash Tabloid ” television and mostly
    insipid rumor mongers. As for GoT actors they do have a personal to live as we do.

  51. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    Yeah I get that.
    But I’m asking (and I say this in the best possible way) you kinda have a reputation for being quite mean around these parts. Why so angry?

  52. Em
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    How about I tell you what it looks like on Prime, huh? I can’t see them cutting much though. Prime is generally pretty good about that sort of thing. And if it’s on after 9 – which it almost certainly will be – they will hardly cut anything at all. After all, they show uncut episodes of True Blood.

  53. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Well by now you guys know how GoT obsessed I am so I had watched the episodes so many times I knew when the sex scenes would happen. So just told him to close his eyes, skipped past it, paused explained if any exposition was neccesary, and pressed play.

  54. WildSeed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    darquemode:
    Claudiu Gherganu,

    I have mixed feelings about Homeland, but for very different reasons….

    I think the first 5 or 6 episodes were some of the bestTV has had to offer in a very long while! Brilliant, tight writing, nuanced acting and a story that had a direction.

    Then the series started getting sloppy and meandering a bit. All explained by the showrunners/writers did not have their endgame figured out.Because of that they went back and forth with various (often contradictory) ideas and the writing was down considerably from the previous episodes.

    Somewhere around Episode 9 or 10 they started to work on their season’s endgame and finally decided how they would end the season. At that point they started pulling things together and putting everything in the place it needed to be for their newly fleshed out finale to make sense. Again, this felt sloppy to me after such a tight first half of the season.

    For me though the worst part was the finale. Just Bad. I call it “the episode that cried wolf”… So many times they built the tension only to make it a non-event in the end, that by the time the legitimate event came around I no longer was on the edge of my seat. They had lost me earlier in the finale… *Shrug*

    I just saw the trailer for the new season and it looks great. I see your point about
    the later episodes and from one perspective the interest builds for the next season.
    Claire danes did walk away with an award ( I was hoping for GoT ) but I think
    she deserved it. Her talent for syncing her character’s emotional weaknesses w/
    strong tactical analysis is very affecting and reasonable. Damien Lewis and
    Mandy Patinkin really balances out the tempo for me to continue watching.

  55. Chris
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I agree with this. There are scenes exclusive to the show that were very well written, so I don’t think it is that they aren’t capable. My guess is that it’s due to it being an incredibly complicated production, and D&D are probably wearing a few too many hats, which leads to some of the writing being rushed or even lazy.

    My other complaint is that I feel like season 2 suffered from quite a bit of sacrificing of the overall story for the sake of the actors. Ex. The Robb and Talisa storyline to give Robb more screen time. The Jon and Ygritte storyline to give Ygritte more introduction and screen time. The Arya and Tywin scenes. Etc. I understand the reasonings and the challenges with a show like this, but from the viewers perspective, I thought this resulted in a weaker overall story.

  56. WildSeed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    WildSeed,

    Well by now you guys know how GoT obsessed I am so I had watched the episodes so many times I knew when the sex scenes would happen. So just told him to close his eyes, skipped past it, paused explained if any exposition was neccesary, and pressed play.

    Ah I thought so. I censor myself for gory scenes I’ve watched from past movies, I
    distract myself and get on with the next scene :D

  57. WildSeed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    Claudiu Gherganu,

    Yeah I get that.
    But I’m asking (and I say this in the best possible way) you kinda have a reputation for being quite mean around these parts. Why so angry?

    * sigh * Give up now, you’re never gonna win. Keep Calm and Carry On.

  58. WildSeed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    If I were to rank the Emmy nominated shows and their seasons it would be:

    1. Breaking Bad
    2. Homeland
    3. Mad Men
    4. Game of Thrones
    5. Boardwalk Empire
    6. Downton Abbey

    Breaking Bad should win in a landslide for their spectacular 4th season. But Mad Men will win for it’s 5th season, which I believe was it’s weakest.Homeland is the fresh new face that had a strong freshman season. I think it has better odds ofupsetting Mad Men than BB.I don’t believe Game of Thrones will ever win an Emmy, no matter how good the show is.I thought the show was deserving of winning last year. Seasons 3 and 4 should be the high point of the series, but the voters will likely never reward a fantasy series. I’m just happy that they even recognize the show enough to nominate it.

    Because of your recommendation ser I am now reviewing ” Breaking Bad “and find it interesting, but let’s not get carried away with placing ” GoT ” at # 4. A raven will
    be sent to your castle to retrieve your TV remote control ! :D

  59. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed: * sigh * Give up now, you’re never gonna win. Keep Calm and Carry On.

    Not trying to make her stop, just curious as to why.

  60. WildSeed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Charles Dance has a new show or series that he’s working on too, similar notion
    as Dempsie for taking on new projects. I think he plays a modern day rogue or
    mob boss.

  61. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Did you see him in the new Underworld?

  62. WildSeed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror: Not trying to make her stop, just curious as to why.

    I understand. You’re being genuine. I went there too some time ago. I sincerely hope
    that someone hasn’t signed on as ” ClaudiuSmash because that would truly be
    unfair and detracting. Hope WiC follows that person.

  63. WildSeed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    WildSeed,

    Did you see him in the new Underworld?

    Nope. Liked Kate Beckinsale in the other versions tho, the DVD will be out before
    you know it.

  64. Brian
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    Game of Thrones is my favorite show, but it would be a tragedy if it upset Breaking Bad.

    Breaking Bad’s 4th Season was nothing less than spectacular. It wrapped up the story arcs so surprisingly, stunningly and (literally) explosively.

    Everyone keeps talking about how they don’t think the emmy voters would award a fantasy show, but I disagree. I might have said the same thing about oscar voters, yet Lord of the Rings managed to win Best Picture.

    I wouldn’t say that a fantasy show would never win the emmy, but I don’t think that the second season of Game of Thrones really deserved it. However, its chances will never be better than during the 3rd and 4th seasons. Breaking Bad is ending, Mad Men is going downhill, while the events in Game of Thrones get more and more amazing.

    I’m optimistic about the future, not necessarily about this particular emmy though.

  65. WildSeed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    Wow that was fast and efficient, thanks WiC. It appears that that someone
    who logged on as ” ClaudiuSmash ” disparaging comments to Claudiu has
    been deleted. That’s a relief ! Not wishing for 500+ comments over non
    issues again.

  66. WildSeed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Brian:
    Game of Thrones is my favorite show, but it would be a tragedy if it upset Breaking Bad.

    Breaking Bad’s 4th Season was nothing less than spectacular. It wrapped up the story arcs so surprisingly, stunningly and (literally) explosively.

    Everyone keeps talking about how they don’t think the emmy voters would award a fantasy show, but I disagree. I might have said the same thing about oscar voters, yet Lord of the Rings managed to win Best Picture.

    I wouldn’t say that a fantasy show would never win the emmy, but I don’t think that the second season of Game of Thrones really deserved it. However, its chances will never be better than during the 3rd and 4th seasons. Breaking Bad is ending, Mad Men is going downhill, while the events in Game of Thrones get more and more amazing.

    I’m optimistic about the future, not necessarily about this particular emmy though.

    True. I hope the GoT show improves each season and earns each merit.
    As for LOTR, the only other contender was HP and that was bad even as a preteen
    movie. I think Peter Jackson scored big but it was well earned. Too bad about
    Mad Men. Did you catch the reference in that GoT ”Pay Phone Parody’ ?

  67. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed: I understand. You’re being genuine. I went there too some time ago. I sincerely hope
    that someone hasn’t signed on as ” ClaudiuSmash because that would truly be
    unfair and detracting. Hope WiC follows that person.

    What did she say to you?

  68. WildSeed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror: What did she say to you?

    Crude response to my liking Homeland in another thread then saying critics agree
    with her/him. Several other posters took up my defense and I stayed out of it, allowed
    the talk to dissipate on it’s own. We all have differing perspectives and opinions
    here and WiC has let us share them even off topic as long as it’s reasonable and
    fair. We are for the most part so it’s remained a go to community, especially
    GoT. I like it here and to read the diverse takes on things, that includes Claudiu.
    If I gave up too soon I would remain ignorant about a lot of stuff.

  69. darquemode
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Oh I think all the lead actors (and many of the supporting actors for that matter) were good enough to be nominated and / or win an Emmy. Claire Danes in particular was amazing! My issues were with the show overall and mostly the writing I guess. It still ended up being a very good first year, but I hope they do not adjust on the fly so much like they did last year.

  70. WildSeed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Yeah, I see your point. The promo piqued my interest, and I only saw it
    last night. Have you caught Newsroom yet ?

    I just saw a YouTube Video of what “What Hitler thought Ned’s beheading ”
    starring Bruno Ganz from the ” Unknown” . You know me with my embedding
    skills so you’d have to look into it yourself. It’s brilliant :D

  71. Drfunk
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    I’ve watched a LOT of TV series in the last few years (as a hobby/fan of creative writing), and though it’s just my opinion there are definite tier brackets in terms of quality writing. The greatest thing Breaking Bad has going on is the fact their episodes are very focused on characters they’ve built over 4 seasons. It’s got just the right amount of drama, humor and at times can be downright compelling. For this reason alone, GoT (as much as I’m a fan) will never be on the same tier as Breaking Bad at the TV level (due to its broad scope). Anyone who feel it should win an emmy against BB are just being silly homers.

    Mad Men is also a show that has such a focus on a bunch of characters over several seasons. The feeling I get from MM however is like watching an artsy oscar film. There’s no doubt MM has some of the smartest writing staff on TV, but clever writing does not always translate to entertaining TV (if that makes any sense). Though I enjoy MM it never compelled me to anxiously wait for its next episode (unlike even GoT). I think MM/BE are shows that clearly could be enjoyed more by watching a season in its entirety instead of a weekly view.

    Homeland is kind of interesting but really nothing to write home about. It’s basically trying to be a realistic “24″ without the Chuck Norris factor in Jack Bauer. Sort of like a watered down version of the Wire but instead of expanding its scope on global terrorism and its effects towards various groups in society it got reduced to a cheap thriller that frankly wasn’t engrossing half the time. It’s not so much better than say The killing in its execution, the main difference being there’s a better cast on Homeland.

    So if I were to tier list my fav shows it would go something like this.

    Group A
    The Wire
    Breaking Bad
    Deadwood

    Group B
    Six Feet Under
    Battlestar Galactica (reimagined)
    Lost

    Group C
    Game of Thrones (yes this low but it’s got potential to move up)
    Rome
    Mad Men
    The Sopranos

    Group D
    Justified
    Suits
    Boardwalk Empire
    Sons of Anarchy
    Dexter

    There’s a bunch of other tiers below D but honestly none of them will be worth watching 20 years from now. This list obv is just my opinion in terms of writing/entertainment value and its execution.

  72. Ed
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    You may not be the only one, but you’re definitely the minority. It’s critically acclaimed and highly successful – I think it’s awesome.

    Loved it. I pretty much disagree with all your claims.

    Claudiu Gherganu:
    BTW , am i the only one who can’t stand Homeland yet it seems everyone loves it for some reason ? I tried to watch 5 episodes because i like Damian Lewis and Claire Danes but the plot is so uninteresting and the characers are so boring that i just couldn’t take it anymore and i gave up . I understand why some people like it because the show resembles 24 , hell it’s even made by the people who did 24 but just like that show i feel it’s not really for my taste .

  73. Jack
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    You have great taste in television.

  74. Drfunk
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    Jack,

    Thanks :)

  75. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    I don’t know what you mean by saying i’m mean, i might sound negative because i’m disagreeing with people but unless they insult me or something i don’t have anything personal against them . Btw, i’m a dude so i don’t know why you referred to me as “her” .

  76. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    Ed:
    You may not be the only one, but you’re definitely the minority.It’s critically acclaimed and highly successful – I think it’s awesome.

    Loved it.I pretty much disagree with all your claims.

    That’s cool, i don’t have a problem with it , like i said anybody can like what they want , i was just giving my opinion of why i don’t think it’s a great show and was wondering why do people love it .

  77. Drfunk
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    I think it’s because you came out too strong with the “can’t stand” comment :)

    As for Homeland itself, you’re not alone in your opinion. I tend to think the show is grossly overrated by these critics mainly because it touches a subject that’s still tender after all these years. It’s one of those shows that seem better than it looks on the strength of its cast and yet completely forgettable unlike a real quality show.

  78. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk:
    Claudiu Gherganu,

    I think it’s because you came out too strong with the “can’t stand” comment :)

    As for Homeland itself, you’re not alone in your opinion. I tend to think the show is grossly overrated by these critics mainly because it touches a subject that’s still tender after all these years. It’s one of those shows that seem better than it looks on the strength of its cast and yet completely forgettable unlike a real quality show.

    What do you think about Lost’s last seasons ? Would you still put it in the B category ? Because i personally think the show sucked after season 4, too many convulated plots that never got resolved .

  79. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    Pardon a woman for asking, but if GoT isn’t your favorite show – shouldn’t you be visiting your FAVORITE show’s websites and not this one? Why waste your time on the boards of your 12th favorite show? Just askin’ (ducks).

  80. Jack
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. H’ghar,

    Plenty of reasons, but mainly I love the book series and I enjoy discussing the TV adaptation. It’s not awful by any means, but it’s also not the greatest thing on TV and I don’t fault anyone for acting like it’s not.

  81. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    Jack:
    Mrs. H’ghar,

    Plenty of reasons, but mainly I love the book series and I enjoy discussing the TV adaptation. It’s not awful by any means, but it’s also not the greatest thing on TV and I don’t fault anyone for acting like it’s not.

    Well comparing to shit shows on The CW or pretty much 70% of other american shows i feel it is . It’s not the greatest tv series but it’s in the top 5 at least at the moment imo .

  82. darquemode
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    Great list!!
    I may move a few shows around , but I think everyone of the shows would make my “Top 20″ list.

    I may add Friday Night Lights, The Shield, and The West Wing too.

  83. Jack
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    People aren’t comparing it to anything on the CW here, we’re comparing it to Breaking Bad, Homeland, and Mad Men. Shows that some people are referring to as “mediocre,” which is just not the case.

  84. Drfunk
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

    darquemode:
    Drfunk,

    Great list!!
    I may move a few shows around , but I think everyone of the shows would make my “Top 20″ list.

    I may add Friday Night Lights, The Shield, and The West Wing too.

    Heard great things about FNL though never got into the whole football thing (as I’m Canadian), The Shield however is definitely next on my list (as I just finished Oz recently), thought the WW was just a bit too Sorkinish for my taste lol (sort of like the Newsroom that came out recently), though I’ll put it on my list to watch after FNL since it’s in your list :)

    Oh.. on another side note, a canadian network actually made a decent sci fi show (ZOMG HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE). Yes it’s a rip off of a certain japanese anime concept wise but still impressed how they managed to do it on the min wage budget of canadian tv stations. There are rumors american networks are interested in buying the show (due to its success in its first season up here) so you guys might get to see it next year (unless you plan on pirating it before hand).

    The name of the show is “Continuum” keep an eye on it, as decent sci fi has been a rarity lately.

  85. Knurk
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    You know, if anyone told me 3 years ago these silly little fantasybooks would garner 2 emmynoms in a row I would have laughed in their face. There is absolutely no shame in being inferior to BB and MM, and I think Luck was better too this year. The writing wasn’t perfect, but has anyone seen that even Aaron Sorkin has written some of the most horrible shit in the Newsroom? Didn’t think it was possible. I have faith next season will be better, was pleasantly surprised when I saw the movie Stay that it was written by noone else than mr. Benioff himself.

  86. Drfunk
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu: What do you think about Lost’s last seasons ? Would you still put it in the B category ? Because i personally think the show sucked after season 4, too many convulated plots that never got resolved .

    I think it’s fairer to judge a show in its entirety rather than specific seasons as things could get really subjective. Lost unlike any other show managed to bring epic mystery on network TV, along with a strong serialized storyline. Its main problem is because it was on a broadcast network. Ratings is the end all be all with the broadcast club, the writers therefore do not have any wiggle room and end up writing on the fly (since most don’t know if the show will get canned within a year). The writers even admitted (which was a mistake) that they were making stuff up after the first season as they didn’t even have a clue where the story was going. Some of those seasons had far too many “filler” episodes due to this.

    Yet despite all that, Lost could not be ignored in its time. Each episode answered one question only to add ten more and kept leading us by the nose. It may not have been at the top tier list but it certainly isn’t “forgettable” as a whole. The main issue I got with it is the replay value as many of the mysteries that made it so compelling would be known.

    Not sure if the comment from Mrs H’ghar was directed at me but I only got to the discussion of other show since it was started by others here. GoT despite all of its flaws still is in my top in terms of anticipation. The source material is dear to me, so I like many fans here have a real vested interest on seeing it. That said, just because it’s my current “must see” tv selection does not mean it deserves to be ranked with the all time best just yet. GoT still has many seasons to go and I can definitely see it getting to my 2nd tier (though i doubt it would crack my top tier). I hope you can appreciate fans who can honestly express their opinions instead of homering up every discussion regarding GoT. For your sake I hope you don’t nominate GoT for every available Emmy category and feel it truly deserves all of them.

  87. darquemode
    Posted August 26, 2012 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    Re WW:
    I add The West Wing to my list more because of others’ opinions than my own. I did not get into it when it was on TV, but I did think it was well done from what I saw. I plan a full series watch at some point here, but I keep postponing it…. Well, asusming I enjoy it that is. If not I will not watch the entire series.

    Re FNL:
    I am not a huge football fan either honestly. IT is in my blood being both American and the son of a sports gambler though I guess! XD

    IT does center around high school football, but it is more about the people on the show than the sport itself. I think you could get into it. Very few episodes revolve around the sport or the game itself. Most are about the characters and use the game metaphorically or as a vehicle for drama and tension. A few exceptions for a championship game and the like where you do get more actual football.

    Speaking of Continuum…
    I actually have been watching it since before it aired on Showcase. I got a promotional disc with the first episode and a couple houors of behind the scenes material, some UHQ photos on a flash drive and a chocolate orange! XD
    I guess the chocolate orange since the foil wrapped sphere resembles the time travel sphere device whose name escapes me…..

    I think the series has a good deal of potential, but I will miss Tony Amendola. For me personally he was the only actor on the series with gravitas. Everyone else is just not strong enough or charismatic enough to be a lead on a TV series in my eyes. Maybe adding Nicholas Lea’s character will help if he sticks around for neck year. I think they need to find their rhythm as a series a dig into the mythology of the show a bit more. More of the conspiracy in the future and more of the present’s link to the conspiracy. All-in-all though it was a nice beginning to a SciFi series and that in itself is indeed a rarity these days!!

    I do watch a lot of Canadian TV shows though …for an Amrican at least. While I would not put it in any best of list I love Republic of Doyle! IT’s jsut such a fun series even if just silly at times XD
    Also thinking of other Canadian shows…. I may add Durham County to my Top 20 list, but the final season was a let down to me.

  88. MedievalFantasy
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 12:12 am | Permalink

    The Blackwater episode alone should give season two the Emmy. What TV show in the nominations had an episode as epic and well written/acted as that, not to mention great battles and special effects?

  89. Drfunk
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 12:17 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Ah ok I’ll put the WW on the back burner for now then. I do recall seeing some episodes on TV before and honestly it looked and sounded like the Newsroom in the White House. Some love those type of shows, even failed ones like the Studio 60 on the sunset strip. I just could never get into it as it felt more like a reality tv of a premise rather than a show.

    I completely agree with your assessment of the actors on Continuum, and yeah having Krycek on board for season 2 would definitely be an improvement. The problem is the network, with cheaper production means lesser known actors/talent. It’s got great potential to overachieve but I’m hoping that a US cable network with actual money *cough that rules you out SyFy* buys it out entirely for a remake with new cast. I could see AMC getting on the bandwagon since BB is ending soon and Hell on Wheels just isn’t going to cut it along with MM and the Walking Dead. But yeah if there was a show that needed a real budget it would be it, still i’m impressed with its special f/x execution (the way BSG blew me away in its day) with its budget.

    Rep of Doyle is on my #15 list of things to watch as well.. Sad that you watch more canadian TV than a canadian :(

    PS: I just thought of why I’m not a real fan of Sorkin. The Newsroom has clever dialogues that just aren’t as funny whereas Suits has some of the most hilarious banter on TV. It’s one thing to write clever one liners, another to give it some sassy fun.

    PPS: Speaking of gravitas.. Ian Mcshane or Edward James Olmos for Doran Martell plz… The screen would melt if either one of those legends graced GoT.

  90. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 12:28 am | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    Hell on wheels is the 2nd best rated show on AMC behind WD so it’s not going out anytime soon . I agree about Ian Mcshane in the role of Doran, he would nail it .

  91. The Sand Snake
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 12:34 am | Permalink

    I would love a more edited version of the episodes. My parents would love the story but would turn off the first episode just a few minutes in.. Most of the sex I could really do without myself, ESP Loras and Renly in the first season.

  92. darquemode
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 12:36 am | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    I would love to see McShane in Game of Thrones, but I have yet to find the right role for him. He is either a bit too old or a bit too white for most of the roles I think of. XD
    OR the few roles he fits better are probably too small for him…..

    I think he is too white for Doran (I am one that wants MiddleEastern or Meditarranean actors for the Dornish) and too old for Victarion (I’m not sure McShane could pull ff being Balon’s younger brother)…. He does have that solid look for Victarian though so maybe he could be Victarian… maybe? Maybe Jon Connington? He was a friend of Rhaegar’s so the actor should be older… Other than greying red hair I don;t recall much about his appearance. He is known to be a brilliant tactician though and I can see McShane being a great military mind.

    I love Edward James Olmos, but I’m not sure he’s right for Thrones. One being an American and two I cannot recall ever hearing Olmos do an accent outside of his normal speaking voice or an amped up Chicano or Latino accent. Brilliant actor though so maybe he has more accents in his bag of tricks?

  93. Drfunk
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Honestly Doran Martell is just about the only role that’s left for either one of those two amazing actors. They can’t give them minor roles, and they are far too old for some of the other roles. I’m still in the camp that’s not convinced they NEED to cast some middle eastern actors for Dorne. They can still cast regular extras of that ethnicity without having someone that’s predominantly middle eastern from the Martell Clan itself. The show took enough creative license as is, and it’s not like there aren’t any white people in Dorne, a good chunk of their pop still has the look of the Andals (just sun burnt). I’m not advocating to strictly cast only white actors, but I hope they just don’t limit certain roles because of color. If they’re the best available for the role at the time then they should get equal consideration.

    If there’s ANY cast that needs to look completely foreign or alien, it would be that of Dany’s arc in Essos. Everything over there sounds and looks middle eastern, so why can’t they get their ethnic diversity from that side? Some often mentioned Alexander Siddig for the Viper but to me he’s always been Hizdarh zo loraq.

    I still hope for some flashback with the events of the tower of joy/robert’s rebellion. Maybe then they could introduces some of these actors into epic roles..

  94. Omar Brown
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 1:23 am | Permalink

    No nudity and violence in GOT? LOL, what is this Lord Of The Rings?

  95. darquemode
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 1:42 am | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    Oh if they cast an actor like McShane as Doran I would not be upset, honestly I would be happy. I just have always pictured the Martells as olive skinned as GRRM described. That does not mean they NEED to be Middleeastern or some non-white ethnicity, but I do see them that way. I’ve always seen Oberyn as Oded Fehr who is not overly dark I guess.

    I think there is more than just looking the part to becoming any given role and sometimes you cannot cast for an ethnicity and limit yourself. Case in point Daario. If the actor captures the spirit of the role I don’t have too much of an issue no matter his heritage.

    I just think there are a lot of very talented actors of from different regions of the world and using them can only enhance the world GRRM created. I would like it if D&D showed the 3 types of Dornish: Salty, sandy and stony Dornishmen. I would like it because it adds another component that GRRM created and the more of the books that make it into the series the better as far as I’m concerned.

    It’s not so much about ethnicity or race to me honestly. GRRM’s world is not our own and we cannot draw direct lines from Dornish to Indian or Spanish etc. Actors have played across racial lines as long as theatre has been around and they always will. I’m ok with it. I just want his characters captured in a way that does them justice and some of his chracters do have traits detailed which lend themselves to (not limit hemselves to) certain ethnicities.

    FYI I have always seen Siddig as more Hizdahr zo Loraq too. Not at all how I imagine the Red Viper. Does not have the predatory eyes or the sexual magnetism to me I guess. Opinions vary though of course….

  96. Morgan King
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 2:32 am | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    A pretty good evaluation, though I think maybe you got groups B and D swapped…? I mean, obviously, right? I mean, flaws and all, GoT, Mad Men and The Sopranos run rings around the sometimes-totally-amazing-but-usually-stupid Battlestar reboot and the just-kidding-there-was-no-point Lost saga.

    I’d argue it’s more like:

    Group A
    Breaking Bad
    The Wire
    Deadwood

    Group B
    Mad Men
    The Sopranos
    Game of Thrones

    Group C
    Six Feet Under
    Justified
    Boardwalk Empire

    Group D
    Rome
    Battlestar Galactica (reimagined)
    Lost
    Suits
    Sons of Anarchy
    Dexter

  97. Arthur
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 2:40 am | Permalink

    I still visit this site a lot and am amazed at all the awesome detective work all you regulars do. Finding little puzzle pieces here and there that all contributes to giving us a broader view on whats going on in the GoT season 3 world.

    I just cant wait to get video stills of what the new cast looks like in their outfits…

    I can’t wait to see what Daario will look like. The actor that plays him does have that “bad boy” look and demener that I believe our young Khaleesi would fall for. Will he have a colored wig? Will he have outlandish sword hilts?

    We already know the actor who will be playing Mance Rayder has that authoritarian demener from his awesome job at playing Julius Caesar in ROME. I imagine he will basically be playing the same kind of character, just in wildling gear, but it still will be awesome to see.

    All you regulars know how I feel about the Reeds. I honestly am most excited to see how they gear up Meera. Will she be in green leather with frogspear, net and hunting bow? Or will they make her a little less of a huntress? Seeing the first video stills of her will simply be amazing.

    Then there are the fantasy elements. Will our first glimpse of Dany’s dragons be of them flying around overhead. Will they be the size of small dogs? What about the Direwolves, will they be more filled out and have adult proportions? I definitly remember someone from the crew saying they will still be growing and when full grown will be the size of a small pony.

    I know the CGI stuff will be the last we get to peek at. How long do you think before D&D and HBO treat us to some video stills of all our favorite new season 3 characters? That is the next big thing I personally am waiting on. I will be checking here daily for it and all the little news pieces this site and all its followers contribute.

    A storm is coming… One of swords. =)

  98. KG
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 4:06 am | Permalink

    I tried watching Breaking Bad. I hated it. Of course, I hated The Sopranos, too. I’ve just seen one too many crime shows, and I could not possibly care less about watching another.

  99. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 4:36 am | Permalink

    MedievalFantasy:
    The Blackwater episode alone should give season two the Emmy. What TV show in the nominations had an episode as epic and well written/acted as that, not to mention great battles and special effects?

    You obviously have not seen the Breaking Bad 4th season finale (or everything that lead to it).

    Breaking Bad should take the Best Drama Emmy. It should’ve taken the award since the first season, but critics seem to like Mad Men more. In fact, it should take every Emmy award it’s nominated for because this show is as close to perfect as TV gets.

    I like both shows but I don’t understand the MM hype. It’s a solid drama series, just not the worth all the praise it gets.

    I like Homeland because it attempts to be a more realistic version of 24 and because the acting is top-notch. While I liked 24 for almost the entire run (except for season 6), it lost all connection to reality somewhere in the beginning of the second season. It was fun watching Jack Bauer doing crazy stuff and single-handedly twarting end of the world scenarios every season.

    I look at Emmy awards as an Olympic competition – everyone who’s nominated can’t be a bad show, just like bad sportsmen wouldn’t get into Olympic finales. It’s just that some shows are still better than others and as much as I love GOT, it’s still not on the level of the likes of BB or MM.

  100. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 4:43 am | Permalink

    KG:
    I tried watching Breaking Bad. I hated it. Of course, I hated The Sopranos, too. I’ve just seen one too many crime shows, and I could not possibly care less about watching another.

    Breaking Bad is not exactly a crime show. It’s a character study of a man who decides to “break bad” under certain circumstances. Yes, he becomes a ruthless criminal, but the main bulk of the show is not about his criminal activities. It’s about how his new life affects everyone around him.

  101. Matt Chung
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 5:25 am | Permalink

    Marya,

    Yep, I saw that one :)

  102. Tessa Leonie
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    Murder yesterday was really good. Dillane was rather hilarious as the prosecuter ( or the girls lawyer, I’m a bit vague on the legal terms.). Three GoT allumni in there with Gendry, Craster and Stannis. This was a one off but I actually like this format a bit better than Accused.

  103. Drfunk
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    darquemode:
    Drfunk,

    Oh if they cast an actor like McShane as Doran I would not be upset, honestly I would be happy. I just have always pictured theMartells as olive skinned as GRRM described. That does not mean they NEED to be Middleeastern or some non-white ethnicity, but I do see them that way.I’ve always seen Oberyn as Oded Fehr who is not overly dark I guess.

    I think there is more than just looking the part to becoming any given role and sometimes you cannot cast for an ethnicity and limit yourself. Case in point Daario. If the actor captures the spirit of the role I don’t have too much of an issue no matter his heritage.

    I just think there are a lot of very talented actors of from different regions of the world and using them can only enhance the world GRRM created.I would like it if D&D showed the 3 types of Dornish: Salty, sandy and stony Dornishmen. I would like it because it adds another component that GRRM created and the more of the books that make it into the series the better as far as I’m concerned.

    It’s not so much about ethnicity or race to me honestly. GRRM’s world is not our own and we cannot draw direct lines from Dornish to Indian or Spanish etc. Actors have played across racial lines as long as theatre has been around and they always will. I’m ok with it. I just want his characters captured in a way that does them justice and some of his chracters do have traits detailed which lend themselves to (not limit hemselves to) certain ethnicities.

    FYI I have always seen Siddig as more Hizdahr zo Loraq too. Not at all how I imagine the Red Viper. Does not have the predatory eyes or the sexual magnetism to me I guess. Opinions vary though of course….

    I couldn’t agree more. I’m all for getting the best actor that captures the essence/spirit of the role. I guess the ideal situation would be for Nina Gold to find really talented actors who happen to be ethnic looking. All I wanted was consideration for everyone and not just a flat restriction right off the bat like some of the folks here wanted. As for Siddig, not only are you right about the non hawkish look or sex appeal but he’s always been kind of the nerdy/politician. Maybe it’s from watching him in DS9 or playing the prince in Syriana but he’s no jock which is what Oberyn needs to be. Though my first choice is still Purefoy, Fehr would be great as well.

  104. Drfunk
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    Morgan King,

    My list wasn’t really based only on intellectual merit but rather added the compelling factor to it. Of course everyone’s going to get a different list, they’re all quality shows but those in the lower brackets were either inconsistent in its seasons or were boring at times. As long as they’re all part of your top 20 not much else to discuss :)

  105. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    Well you seem negative quite alot.
    My apologies for the gender confusion, it’s just that Claudi, Claudia, Claudiu etc are are female names where I come from.

  106. John
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    Tessa Leonie:
    Murder yesterday was really good. Dillane was rather hilarious as the prosecuter( or the girls lawyer, I’m a bit vague on the legal terms.). Three GoT allumni in there with Gendry, Craster and Stannis. This was a one off but I actually like this format a bit better than Accused.

    It was directed by Birger Larsen, who also directed the first few episodes of the 1st series of the classic “Forbrydelsen” (The Killing).

    Found this preview of Murder for anyone interested –

    http://www.crimetimepreview.com/2012/08/murder-joint-enterprise-bbc2-starring.html

  107. Default King
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    I like GoT, but every other show nominated for Best Drama is a better show. It jsut can’t compete with the quality of Boardwalk Empire or Breaking Bad (which will win).

  108. Winturd
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    You must be of the North.

  109. Tír Airgid
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    In case there are any Gaelic Games fans around who didn’t have the chance to see the little clip RTE made for the Cork vs Donegal game, I’ve uploaded it here. Apologies for the quality of the video, but it was not very good to start with.

  110. Al Swearengen
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    The real injustice here is that It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia isn’t getting Emmy love, that show mops the floor with everything out there !!!

  111. ASOIAF Fan
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    Charles,

    Wow i’m really glad GOT isn’t like BB or MM, i can’t stand either of those, and i crawled through 3 whole seasons between the 2 of them because everybody was raving about how good they were.
    Between 3 seasons, i was able to predict the whole plot/developments of 2 of them after just 1 episode, good luck to do that with GOT if you haven’t read the books.
    I want my shows to surprise me, a good story is rarely predictable, i can live with slow but not with boringly predictable, and BB and MM are both.

  112. Al Swearengen
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Default King,

    Game Of Thrones is better than Boardwalk Empire, that show runs at a snails pace and just doesn’t pull you in like the others, the second season’s finale was good though.

  113. ASOIAF Fan
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    Al Swearengen: The real injustice here is that It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia isn’t getting Emmy love, that show mops the floor with everything out there !!!

    Glad i’m not the only one to find this show greatly underrewarded (is that a word?).
    I discovered it last year and powered through the 7 seasons in a few weeks. Everything else seems dull after, other comedies can make me smile but not consistently make me laugh so hard i spill my drinks.

  114. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Morgan King,

    My view

    Group A
    The Wire
    Breaking Bad
    Buffy the Vampire Slayer

    Group B
    Deadwood
    X Files
    Mad Men

    Group C
    Brotherhood
    Sopranos
    Rome

    Group D
    Game of Thrones
    Battlestar Galactica Reimagined
    Lost

  115. Al Swearengen
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    ASOIAF Fan,

    Same here I discovered it on Netflix UK and didn’t leave the house until I finished all the seasons.

  116. John W
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    I was watching Bunheads, a show about a dancing school from the creator of Gilmore Girls, and they had an episode where they kept referencing Joffrey. It was funny.

  117. KG
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    I just have no interest in any of the characters or their situations. I’ve seen it all before.

  118. Rygar
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    Have to disagree with ya here Al (“if I find out you’ve got a knife”). Boardwalk had a few “slow paced” episodes in S2 but the overall theme and conclusion were pretty bad ass and compelling. It has some amazing acting and characters and I can not wait for S3. I don’t need on the edge of my seat excitment in every episode. I want great acting and storytelling and BE provides this and more. I put it on par with GoT.

    Now if we can only get S4 of Deadwood made…..San Francisco c*cksuckers!!!

    Al Swearengen:
    Default King,

    Game Of Thrones is better than Boardwalk Empire, that show runs at a snails pace and just doesn’t pull you in like the others, the second season’s finale was good though.

  119. Rygar
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    Dude where is True Blood on your list? Lol

    I am amazed at the lack of props for BE. They had Dabney fuckin Coleman for crying out loud! Maybe its the been there done that aspect which I understand can be a turn off but I do loves me some Tommy Guns. Agent Nelson Van Alden has got to be one of the best HBO characters since Al Swearengen.

  120. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    I’m partial to Arnold Rothstein and Richard Harrow. Van Alden’s a nut bar. But Sturhlbag’s
    Rothstein what a presence. I also loved season 2 of BE. I was surprised that Gretchen Mol didn’t get a Nomination. I was hoping her and Lena Headey would be going head to head

  121. Rygar
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    I also love the guy who plays Doyle. Van Alden is insane but I credit that to the actor. Agreed about Sturhlbag. My only gripe about S2 is the Carmen Soprano angle they are taking with Margaret.

    I am rewatching S2 with my better half and its her first time. She keeps asking me if Jimmy and Nucky make up…HA.

  122. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    Default King:
    I like GoT, but every other show nominated for Best Drama is a better show. It jsut can’t compete with the quality of Boardwalk Empire or Breaking Bad (which will win).

    No, it’s going to win the overrated crap named Mad Men for the fifth time .

  123. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Winturd,

    Actually quite the opposite, I’m from a country as far south as you can possibly go without going to the SOuth Pole.

  124. darquemode
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Have to agree… I never found BE to be slow.

    It’s one of those shows where there is so much information even in the small, silent scenes. From similar lighting used to connect to a past scene, or an object in the background specifically in frame to evoke memories of a past scene, there is always more going on than just what the actors are doing or seeing. The quality of acting and writing is equal to or better than anything on TV… The production value of BE is up there with any other show on TV , maybe just a step below Game of Thrones in my opinion. As far as I know, BE does not weave their own fabrics for their characters suits! XD

    Sadly we will never gt Season 4 or a movie finale of Deadwood. *sniff* Sniff*
    I held out hope for a while, but when the studio tore down the sets and David Milch dismissed the idea of ever revisiting Deadwood….. sigh.

    Joshua Taylor,

    Agreed about Mol!
    A role like that can go off the rails and be campy far too easily, but her acting and the writing have kept it in check and made it superb.

    I am also a Richard Harrow guy. He has to be the most dynamic supporting role on TV. Nothing like him. Although last year I did find Manny the Butcher disturbingly fun to watch! William Forsythe does creepy and disturbing so well….

  125. Drfunk
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Drfunk,

    Dude where is True Blood on your list?Lol

    I am amazed at the lack of props for BE.They had Dabney fuckin Coleman for crying out loud!Maybe its the been there done that aspect which I understand can be a turn off but I do loves me some Tommy Guns. Agent Nelson Van Alden has got to be one of the best HBO characters since Al Swearengen.

    Everyone has their own taste.. TB is a really polished trashy show (kind of like Spartacus). Just eye candy after eye candy + gratuitous softcore scenes + random decapitation = does not mean great writing. Entertaining at times? Sure definitely, a classic? Sorry no.

    So many great series got canned untimely.. Deadwood… Firefly.. while we get a gazillion CSI going on… just makes me sick.

  126. darquemode
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Love Michael Shannon!
    Have you seen ‘Take Shelter’? He is amazing in the role of a delusional man trying to protect his family from the apocalyptic visions he sees. One of the best films of 2011 easily.

  127. darquemode
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    Agreed on True Blood.
    I thought it had some potential after Season 1, but they started to ignore the books and amp up the campiness and it went downhill fast. At least from a overall quality point of view, but maybe not an entertainment point of view to some.

    I saw someone suggest another series on here and I wanted to second their notion. “Brotherhood” was incredible! Jason Clarke, Jason Isaacs, Fionula Flanagan, Anabeth Gish, Kevin Chapman, and Brian F O’Byrne in the same seires… Great cast.

    It was cancelled early, but the finale was more satisfactory than many early cancellations and things were at a point where they could be seen as wrapped up to a large degree.

  128. Rygar
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    darquemode,
    Haven’ seen it but I heard the same thing. He is so intense in every BE scene. I also agree with the Gretchen Mol sentiment. Shamefully overlooked. They all are as far as I am concerned.

  129. Rygar
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    Gotta add Carnivale and Hung to the untimely HBO canning.

    darquemode:
    Drfunk,

    Agreed on True Blood.
    I thought it had some potential after Season 1, but they started to ignore the books and amp up the campiness and it went downhill fast. At least from a overall quality point of view, but maybe not an entertainment point of view to some.

    I saw someone suggest another series on here and I wanted to second their notion. “Brotherhood” was incredible! Jason Clarke, Jason Isaacs, Fionula Flanagan, Anabeth Gish, Kevin Chapman, and Brian F O’Byrne in the same seires… Great cast.

    It was cancelled early, but the finale was more satisfactory than many early cancellations and things were at a point where they could be seen as wrapped up to a large degree.

  130. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    I like Boardwalk Empire, but I disagree that it is better than Game of Thrones. The only two characters I actually give a damn about on BE are Jimmy and Harrow. I love Buschemi, but he was seriously miscast as Nucky. IMO. The writing is the only area where BE is a bit stronger than GOT, although I wouldn’t have said that after season 1 of GOT. The acting is pretty much even. What separates the two shows, at least for me, is the characters and the overall story. As I said, I just don’t feel strongly for any of the characters on BE. And I really don’t care about where the story may go.

  131. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    I agree about Carnivale. That show deserved better. I thought Hung had run it’s course, but would have been fine with another season or two. I was more upset when they cancelled Bored to Death.

  132. darquemode
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Carnivale pains me more than Deadwood I think… sigh.
    It was so original and was cancelled at the end of the first act… Just sad.

  133. Rygar
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    I just love Jane Adams and would like to see her weekly. Not sexually, all you dirty minds out there. Lol

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Rygar,

    I agree about Carnivale. That show deserved better. I thought Hung had run it’s course, but would have been fine with another season or two. I was more upset when they cancelled Bored to Death.

  134. Rygar
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    Agreed about the pain, but Deadwood is still the best thing HBO ever put out IMO and I miss that show more than anything else.

    darquemode:
    Rygar,

    Carnivale pains me more than Deadwood I think… sigh.
    It was so original and was cancelled at the end of the first act…Just sad.

  135. darquemode
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I understand what you mean….
    I connect more with Game of Thrones characters than any other series on TV. Maybe because I read the books repeatedly for a decade? Some of it definitely is because of how well GRRM wrote the chracters and how well Nina Gold and company cast the actors of course.

    There are other series like Breaking Bad, Boardwalk Empire and Mad Men I think are arguably as good or better than Thrones despite not connecting to the characters or story as much. I think all three of those series are possibly more well executed than Game of Thrones, at least on some levels. Having said that, I will always be more interested in anything connected to Game of Thrones than the other series and I will re-watch Thrones more than the other series combined.

  136. Drfunk
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    darquemode,

    I put Brotherhood on my list thx, you had me at Jason Isaacs XD.
    I recall seeing him playing some cartoony villain in Mel Gibson’s terrible american remake of Braveheart but recently he was in a show called “Awake”. Yet another cool concept show that was canned by the retards in NBC. Seriously, that network has never quite recovered from losing Seinfeld/Friends… Great actor, I’m hoping he’s free for a role in Thrones. Hmmm… yes… Jason Isaacs for Jon Connington…. make it so!

  137. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    Morgan King,

    My view

    Group A
    The Wire
    Breaking Bad
    Buffy the Vampire Slayer

    Group B
    Deadwood
    X Files
    Mad Men

    Group C
    Brotherhood
    Sopranos
    Rome

    Group D
    Game of Thrones
    Battlestar Galactica Reimagined
    Lost

    Buffy the Vampire Slayer really, wow -.-

  138. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    I don’t watch many network shows, but I do watch Parks and Recreation on NBC. That show is truly hilarious. It is my favorite comedy on TV right now and the best I’ve watched since Arrested Development.

  139. Rygar
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    I agree and would put Curb on that list in addition.

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Drfunk,

    I don’t watch many network shows, but I do watch Parks and Recreation on NBC. That show is truly hilarious. It is my favorite comedy on TV right now and the best I’ve watched since Arrested Development.

  140. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    I defend Buffy all the time and will continue to do so. It is one of the best tv shows ever written in my opinion. Tragic, funny, endearing, human, powerful. A true Bildungsroman. Buffy is art.

  141. Alan
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think Game of Thrones would be undeserving of a win. It has almost no chance at actually winning, but it’s not undeserving.

    I like both Breaking Bad and Mad Men but I don’t think they are heads and tails above Thrones. Frankly, while Mad Men and Breaking Bad have a lot of similarities, Thrones is a completely different style of show. It moves at a much faster pace, with a myriad of main characters and is much more plot driven. Breaking Bad is a character piece and Mad Men is a cultural piece with character elements. Thrones has a much higher degree of difficulty in my mind. The execution is stylistic less elegant, for sure, but I’m more interested in Game of Thrones and it makes me think much more than the other two.

    Thrones is much more comparable to Lost or Rome or Deadwood in concept and core elements. The execution can be different, but it’s not really close to something like The Sopranos or Breaking Bad in where its focus is.

    The Emmys love straight character studies, period pieces, and stories about the bitter facade of the American Dream. Mad Men anyone?

  142. WildSeed
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk: Everyone has their own taste.. TB is a really polished trashy show (kind of like Spartacus). Just eye candy after eye candy + gratuitous softcore scenes + random decapitation = does not mean great writing. Entertaining at times? Sure definitely, a classic? Sorry no.

    So many great series got canned untimely.. Deadwood… Firefly.. while we get a gazillion CSIgoing on… just makes me sick.

    Agree. The reasons you gave is why I gave up on Network TV.

    TrueBlood is so so bad cable . The soft porn keeps it within viewership and the
    familiar character names satisfy those who may have heard a thing or two
    about the books.

  143. WildSeed
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    Claudiu Gherganu,

    I defend Buffy all the time and will continue to do so. It is one of the best tv shows ever written in my opinion. Tragic, funny, endearing, human, powerful. A true Bildungsroman. Buffy is art.

    Best. I lament the Scoobie gang and Spike. Josh Whedon is busy again but without
    Buffy there is no Faith.

  144. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    If True Blood didn’t exist Game of Thrones would be a million times better than it is now.

  145. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I can’t agree more! I have just got into Parks and already halfway through season 2 it is the best since AD. I like it more than Community. Season 1 of Parks is kinda meh though. But early season 2 the show just blossoms when Leslie no longer fulfills the female Michael Scott rule and blossoms into a fantastic character. Chris Pratt is amazing as well. As is the reliable Rashida Jones who I felt bad for on the Office. Poor Karen!

  146. Drfunk
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    Claudiu Gherganu,

    I defend Buffy all the time and will continue to do so. It is one of the best tv shows ever written in my opinion. Tragic, funny, endearing, human, powerful. A true Bildungsroman. Buffy is art.

    Buffy is no doubt a great show for its time, I don’t think anyone can dispute that. I still don’t think it’s comparable to the other shows in my top tier and there’s nothing wrong with that. I remember a lot of great movie/tv series that I’ve watched in my younger days and let me tell you a lot haven’t aged that well (and buffy would fall within this bracket for me). There are shows/material that illiterately blow you away by bringing something new to the table.

    After reading a bizillion fiction novel since I was a kid, the disappointment with the fantasy genre was palpable after the LOTR. All these author tried to emulate Tolkien and just fell way short of the mark. It felt at times reading the adventures of the protagonist as he “leveled” up during his journey to defeat X villain. Then everything changed when a friend introduced me to a Game of Thrones.

    GoT shot away at tradition. No more bad guys, everyone was grey. In any fantasy series before Martin, if your main protagonist got ambushed by six dudes you KNEW he’d make it out alive. Injured? Sure. Losing an ally? Done. Killing the main character? What? Seriously anyone who read Salvatore as a kid knew that the author could send the kitchen sink at his hero who would always prevail. Knowing that anyone could die at any time was a breath of fresh air and brought forth a realistic though cynical view of the whole fantasy world.

    Having grown up watching Star Trek TNG, the new reimagined BSG was yet again a show that broke true grounds on TV. Due to the technology differences you never had a sense of the restriction of space flight. Everything was neatly tied up to those fabled w/e crystals to power up and replicate everything. BSG not only dealt with the issue of what makes us human but it put its characters through moral dilemmas that frankly was non existent for that genre. Whether it’s vacuuming out the deck crew so the fire won’t spread or letting 1000 people die because it might be infiltrated there are no “right and wrong” answers. That’s what made BSG stand out.

    The Wire was not a show. It actually completely changed my outlook on society as a whole. To this day I’m baffled at how well the show was written/acted and overall executed. It’s sad that a lot of people haven’t seen the show and refer to it as another good “cop show” when it’s truly a masterpiece of modern society.

    So on and on I could go on all night talking about these shows and yet were someone to mention Buffy to me. I don’t think I’d have anything to sell them except that it had a good storyline, great chemistry on its cast. It’s just not as groundbreaking for me as it was to you. That’s just my two cents though and I’m sure there’s plenty of Buffy lovers who’d rate it as the best show of all time.

  147. Mike
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think it will get the win this for reasons already stated. I think it might in 2 or 3 years though. People have brought up Lord of the Rings and awards that got. Only thing is that most of them were for Return of The King which I think was the weakest of the 3 but it was as though Hollywood gave that every award going to make up for not re!cognising the 1st and 2nd films. The critics are never very quick on the uptake with these things so maybe GOT with have several excellent seasons

  148. Mike
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    I think GOT might not get the major awards until its final 2 seasons. Look at Lord of The Rings. There’s no way in my opinion the Return of the King deserved all the awards it got because I think it was the weakest of the trilogy. But it seemed as through the judges and Hollywood gave it every accolade going to make up for failing to recognise the first 2 films properly. So maybe after GOT has 3 or 4 high quality seasons the judging panel might actually start to see its worth. Hollywood isn’t exactly quick on the uptake at when it comes to recognising excellence when it outside of their comfort zone. But on the plus side they’ll probably sing the praises of the last couple of seasons until they are hoarse even if they’re not as good as some of the preceding ones. Oh and also because Mad Men will have probably finished by then.

    That said I don’t think GOT deserves to win this year. Bse there were a number of flaws. I love the show and the books but I don’t have a blind loyalty towards them. I just hope that when the show gets it awards its because it for current excellence and not past excellence which was sidelined.

  149. darquemode
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    I love Buffy , but I agree it is not on my best drama list…
    It falls in that “entertainment” category for me. Shows that do not strive to be art or change the way you look at TV or the world, but they can be damn fun! Buffy is one of those shows for me much like Veronica Mars, Boston Legal and a number of others….

  150. WildSeed
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    WildSeed,

    If True Blood didn’t exist Game of Thrones would be a million times better than it is now.

    I know. GoT needs a bigger budget to have 12 episodes.

  151. WildSeed
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk: Buffy is no doubt a great show for its time, I don’t think anyone can dispute that. I still don’t think it’s comparable to the other shows in my top tier and there’s nothing wrong with that. I remember a lot of great movie/tv series that I’ve watched in my younger days and let me tell you a lot haven’t aged that well (and buffy would fall within this bracket for me).There are shows/material that illiterately blow you away by bringing something new to the table.

    After reading a bizillion fiction novel since I was a kid, the disappointment with the fantasy genre was palpable after the LOTR. All these author tried to emulate Tolkien and just fell way short of the mark. It felt at times reading the adventures of the protagonist as he “leveled” up during his journey to defeat X villain. Then everything changed when a friend introduced me to a Game of Thrones.

    GoT shot away at tradition. No more bad guys, everyone was grey. In any fantasy series before Martin, if your main protagonist got ambushed by six dudes you KNEW he’d make it out alive. Injured? Sure. Losing an ally? Done. Killing the main character? What? Seriously anyone who read Salvatore as a kid knew that the author could send the kitchen sink at his hero who would always prevail. Knowing that anyone could die at any time was a breath of fresh air and brought forth a realistic though cynical view of the whole fantasy world.

    Having grown up watching Star Trek TNG, the new reimagined BSG was yet again a show that broke true grounds on TV. Due to the technology differences you never had a sense of the restriction of space flight. Everything was neatly tied up to those fabled w/e crystals to power up and replicate everything. BSG not only dealt with the issue of what makes us human but it put its characters through moral dilemmas that frankly was non existent for that genre. Whether it’s vacuuming out the deck crew so the fire won’t spread or letting 1000 people die because it might be infiltrated there are no “right and wrong” answers. That’s what made BSG stand out.

    The Wire was not a show. It actually completely changed my outlook on society as a whole. To this day I’m baffled at how well the show was written/acted and overall executed. It’s sad that a lot of people haven’t seen the show and refer to it as another good “cop show” when it’s truly a masterpiece of modern society.

    So on and on I could go on all night talking about these shows and yet were someone to mention Buffy to me. I don’t think I’d have anything to sell them except that it had a good storyline, great chemistry on its cast. It’s just not as groundbreaking for me as it was to you. That’s just my two cents though and I’m sure there’s plenty of Buffy lovers who’d rate it as the best show of all time.

    Well stated and accurate. too many shows have been dumbed down as well. Cable TV
    picked up the slack where censors and easily offended have little jurisdiction.

    Buffy was not top tier TV but had a cult following. Frankly I was surprised so many
    watched as I did.

    I’m a Nerdist so quoting in Klngon language was just the thing one must do :D

  152. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 12:17 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    WildSeed,

    If True Blood didn’t exist Game of Thrones would be a million times better than it is now.

    I’m not sure I understand this stance. True Blood only costs 30-35 million dollars per season to produce. It rakes in tons of money for HBO, which then goes into the pot to fund other shows as well. If there was no True Blood, there may not be a Game of Thrones.

  153. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    I love the entire cast. My favorite is Ron Swanson. He is one of my favorite TV characters of all-time. It is a crime that Nick Offerman has never been nominated for an Emmy.

  154. mags giantsbabe
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conquerer, love your Southpole answer, ten out of ten :D

    Pastor of Muppets, don’t want to sound like a fish wife trading gossip on this website neither, but I was naughty enough to go look at those pictures. They looked cosy :)

  155. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Because True Blood and shows like it are responsible or D and D’s insistence of obligatory T & A in the series that in effect cheapens GoT and diminishes its chances for Emmy Gold.

    The sad thing is that I personally believe that it is this demographic (which is very large) that has latched onto the show are what keeps its ratings us up outside book fans and members of the intelligentsia.

  156. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 1:22 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Boston Legal really? In defense of BTVS i was not initially a Buffy fan. I missed its television run and did not see the series until DVD years later. As a graduate of film and television studies I have watched many television series and I can tell you there exists a strong contingent in academia pushing for the acknowledgement of BTVS as art. Whether for its use of language, the metaphor of monsters and magic for societal issues, it’s symbolism in its script and cinematography and music, it’s Dickensian whimsy and honesty, it’s growing maturity and it’s adherence to the classic Campbellian monomyth structure, Buffy is one of the greatest anecdotes for the trials and tribulations of the passage into adulthood.

    Buffy was groundbreaking in that it set many precedents on how television could be art. Look at the Body for chrissakes, a paean to death that resonates more with each viewing. Or Hush as the demons of patriarchy descend upon the status quo, render it helpless and practically rape it. Or Surprise/innocence, one of the truest depictions of the consequences of teenage sexuality ever written for television.

  157. m3shwerks
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 2:30 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Yes, I had a very hard time getting through the first half of BE because I also felt Steve Buscemi was miscast and the plot sort of dragged. Eventually, I gave up on the show and I haven’t watched it since. I do hear Season 2 was better so maybe I’ll revisit it.

    I like the love being shown for Carnivale, a good show cancelled too early. Anyone know the exact reasons? Was it production costs?

    I think and hope Breaking Bad wins because as several people already mentioned that show is just well written, well acted and they’ve done an excellent job with the character and plot development.

    BTW- great thread everyone! I’m really enjoying it.

  158. darquemode
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 3:35 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    Absolutely Boston Legal.
    Easily in my top 100 shows all-time (if not top 50) and would be well ahead of Buffy and well behind the shows in lists above. I’m not even a law show fan in general.. There is a reason that show was nominated for Emmy and Golden Globe Awards every year it was on the air (and won a few). It was very well done.

    I can watch the series over and over like very few other shows because it has great chracters that are as funny on fifth viewing as on first viewing. It was the center of some great debates with family and friends. I am independent but I have very left-leaning and very right-leaning relatives and friends that loved the series. Mayeb a few loved to hate it….

    I have worn out VHS with Buffy and had 2 sets of DVDs over the years, but I can never see it as more than entertainment and nothing approaching art or the perfect example of passing to adulthood. I think BTVS is very much a product of its time and had a huge impact on pop culture that lasts a decade later, but it just does not age as well as some other series honestly.

    There are some great episodes for their story like Becoming 1 & 2 and there are great episodes for their originality and style like Hush….. and some overrated episodes … *Shrug* I never connected with The Body episode honestly. Everyone reacts to death and death of loved ones differently of course, but I just did not feel that episode as much as others did. I had a similar inceident when I was slightly younger at 14, I found my grandfather dead in bed and had to let the rest of my family know since no one else was home at the time . I can relate to the basic material, but I did not connect to the episode at all. It felt less-than-real to me… or maybe more-than-real or maybe just melodramatic. It just felt off to me.

    As far as the academic aspect is concerned… I’m sure for every academic that thinks it is art and should be studied as a class there is an equal or larger number that fnds that idea laughable.There seriously have been David Beckham academic classes, lass studies about Beyonce and Zombies, and of course Harry Potter. Anything can make for a college course if the professor can find the right angle and the university higher ups are liberal.

    I do love what Buffy did for TV though. It certainly led to more strong females or female leads on TV shows, and of course it started a horror or genre revival that made it easier for many genre series to find their way on to TV screens everywhere! Buffy had a huge pop culture impact, but I canot judge a show by that I guess. IF we judge by cultural impact shows like Jersey Shore and American Idol would be top 20 all-time shows! XD

  159. darquemode
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 3:45 am | Permalink

    m3shwerks,

    From what I recall Carnivale was cancelled due to declining ratings and production costs. Act I of Daniel Knauf’s six-year plan was done and HBO may have agreed to one more year or severely lowered production costs for another season, but Knauf and the powers that be could not agree. He wanted at least a 2-year deal to air the next act of his series and HBO would only agree to one year at a severly slashed budget.

    HBO was later wiling to do a two part series or 3-hour movie, but Knauf didn’t think it would do the story justice and refused. There was talk of other networks and comic books, but in the end HBO put a stop to all that since they owned the show’s name, plot and characters.

    I think Knauf did come out and give some details about how the series would have gone, but I cannot recall much. Ben lived but would have been more like Management, a broken man. Sofie would have been the focus of Act II. I never heard how the endgame was going to unfold though.

  160. Lin Beifunk
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 3:50 am | Permalink

    I watch, like, two shows on TV. Two and few quarters, actually: Game of Thrones and Louie and sometimes bits of other comedies. I can’t handle the constant derivations anymore, really — quirky medical show, quirky cop show, mysterious LOST ripoff, ‘groundbreaking’ sci-fi show that treads very basic literary ground covered 40 years ago, teen drama with 30-year-olds playing highschoolers, Chuck Lorre/Seth MacFarlane production. My favorite genre-breakers generally get cancelled after two episodes, and the rest of HBO’s shows don’t really interest me. They’re not bad (on the whole) but they don’t interest me.

    So I guess I much prefer books; they steal just as much from each other, but for me, it’s more subtle, and the outcome generally more original. I’m not being a hipster like yadda yadda I’m so not mainstream I don’t like television and I’m clearly better — I just don’t like TV. Books do it for me. Yes, this makes it very hard to hold conversation with most people. Alas.

    Anyone else like this, though?

  161. mags giantsbabe
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 4:17 am | Permalink

    Lin Beifunk

    Yes, I also tend to be one of those people who enjoy books more but usually it’s the tv show/film that leads me to the book, so I’m thankful that Got lead me to the books. Yes I have expectations, but being a huge fan of the LotR and Harry Potter movies taught me to be more open-minded about deviations. I’ve made peace with the Jon changes in S2, eventhough the Jon and Arya book parts were some of my favourite chapters in the whole saga so far.

    I recently read Jurrassic Park, which was great, but quite frankly Steven Spielberg’s characterisation for the film characters was ten times better, except for Ian Malcolm, a great book character, who was adapted pretty much as he was in the book and Jeff Goldblum absolutely nailed that role.

    The thing is, I don’t always have time to go and browse in bookstores and I have to do a lot of academic reading for my Masters, so I currently read books borrowed or suggested by friends. But no, nothing beats the world the book creates in your own mind, a very subjective internalization, not even the awesomeness that is HBO’s version of GoT.

  162. Gorrean
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 5:31 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury, Your nickname is to die for! :)

  163. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    To each their own I guess. We all see things differently, the artistic sophistication of BTVS misses the boat for many people just as for some people the world of Tolkien and its adaptations are manna for heaven and for others it’s a tedious and plodding dull affair. Yes BTVS is a product of its time, but it is still going strong even to this day and man critics, writers and academics are able to see past it’s ‘foolishness’ and understand the meat and implications of the text. I seriously doubt academics write about BTVS the way they do about the cultural impact of Jersey Shore. When Buffy is studied like that of the telenovels like The Wire, Lost, BSG, the Sopranos etc it is about thematics, storyline virtually in terms of literary merit. 10 years from now BTVS will be safely ensconced in the television canon whereas many other entertainment shows will be flash in the pan moments. Yes this could be attributed to its cult status but there’s a reason for that cult status and why it remains enduring. If your curious to explore what I am getting at or are will into see the show in a new light there are many great published works in Buffy studies. Among them is Why Buffy Matters: The art of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which literally blew my mind at the density of BTVS as a visual text.

  164. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Anyway let’s put this to bed and move on. :)

  165. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Because True Blood and shows like it are responsible or D and D’s insistence of obligatory T & A in the series that in effect cheapens GoT and diminishes its chances for Emmy Gold.

    The sad thing is that I personally believe that it is this demographic (which is very large) that has latched onto the show are what keeps its ratings us up outside book fans and members of the intelligentsia.

    Get over yourself, the book and the series are both sexually in it, it’s one of the reasons Martin didn’t want to give the series to shitty networks tv where they can barely show anything at all .

  166. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    Excuse me? Get over myself? I am no prude sir but none if the sex and nudity in GoT had anything to do with the books. With the exception of Dany and Theon none of the main cast has been involved in these scenes. Every Ros or brothel scene seems tacked on in my opinion whereas on great HBO shows like the Wire and Deadwood and even Rome the sex is an organic part of the narrative. Here its handled like window dressing, front and center. There could be a cavalcade of peen and vag on the screen but as long as it served the story I couldn’t care less. Right now the nudity is very obvious. A set piece unto itself.
    And here’s something funny,you state
    constantly how bad season 2 is yet when I criticize it you attack me? Every post you make here is full of anger and resentment. Do you have anything positive to say to anyone here or about the show?

  167. ASOIAF Fan
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    What exactly do you consider a True Blood initiated T&A scene in the second season?

    I actually found the 2nd season to be on the right track on that subject with it’s unique sexposition scene coming directly from the books (Theon on the boat).
    Everything else (nude/sex scenes) has been part of the story, at least more than AL S. blowjob monologues in Deadwood.
    Or else you have a double-standard and consider brothel scenes in Deadwood with topless prostitutes to be part of the story while the same scenes in GoT are gratuitous.
    I agree that, for some scenes, they chose to show more than necessary (Joffrey’s present from Tyrion) but it’s still integral to the story, the point of the scene is to insist on Joffrey sociopathy, lack of “normal” sexual desire and understanding of his uncle’s schemes, not to show naked Ros.
    We’ve gone from 1 sexposition scene/episode in S1 to 1 sexposition scene in the whole S2 and you’re still whinning, can’t you trust them to continue on the right track?
    Is 1 sexposition scene (from the book) really still too much?
    Or are you a bit hypocrite (strong word can’t find a better one) and don’t make a distinction between sex scenes that are gratuitous and thoses that are part of the story if it’s in GoT ? (you seem to be able to make the distinction in Deadwood).
    Or is that Ros that bother you? She’s there to help other characters reveal themselves, as Trixie in Deadwood, and i didn’t find a Ros scene more gratuitous than one of Al monologue : He doesn’t even talk to Trixie, most of the time he doesn’t talk about subjects that involve Trixie, you could put him in any other setting and convey the same thing for the story but they chose to have his monologue while he gets a bj by a semi nude Trixie, why? How is that better than any of the Ros scene?

    P.S : i’m not trying to antagonize you, i’m genuinely curious as to what you consider gratuitous sex/nudity/sexposition or whatever you call True Blood sex/orgy scenes.

  168. Drfunk
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    The sex scenes don’t really bother me as long as it’s an extension of making the scene more realistic. Instead of blaming True Blood (of which I’m not a fan), we need to blame Ari Emanuel. Yes the real life version of Ari Gold from Entourage, and no we’re not talking about Jeremy Pivens but an actual very influential talent executive of the industry. See a few years ago HBO was run by Chris Albrecht who was responsible for bringing the golden age of TV with The Wire, The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, Deadwood, Band of Brothers, and Sex and the City among many others. He was an innovator, and tremendously respected in his time.

    Problem arose however when he took a few things from Mel Gibson’s playbook and started allegedly beating women. HBO being HBO couldn’t afford the bad press so they fired him under the pressure of Hollywood. Albrecht was more or less black listed until his friend Ari hooked him up with the power movers of the industry. In 2010 he then ran his own network again Starz. His experience led him to believe that if you put enough T&A along with violence it would translate into huge success. Spartacus push the envelope so deep into the anal cavities of Hollywood that critics felt compelled to defend the show as art.

    This then in turn led Alan Ball to start the war of the tits by tossing the storyline out of TB’s playbook and just ordering his writers to put as many situations possible for its lead to strip and get it on. Having seen the amount of “action” going on screen, D&D felt compelled to tell their audience “Hey we got T&A here as well, but we bring you the new twist of incest!”. Unlike TB and Spartacus however, D&D do possess an excellent source material that really can stand on its own without the need for someone to flash their genitals every 7min. I just hope the rumours of a RL Adam Friedman isn’t true (as per the interview by Neil Marshall), and they don’t actually have someone demanding more nudity on the fly.

    So what does it all mean? They need to learn to use the nudity scenes in a less trashy fashion and have faith the story itself will carry the show. This isn’t to say I’m disgusted by the sex scenes of the show (I’m a male after all =D ), but it saddens me some snooty critics debase this show and compares it to completely trashy shows (like Spartacus/TB). Before Spartacus/TB fans roast me for my opinions, there’s nothing wrong with trash TV, it’s not quality programming but no one can deny they are entertaining. XD

  169. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    ASOIAF Fan,

    The sex scenes that occur in GoT are anything like the scenes in the books ie: main characters participating in the act and are not jammed in there to appeal to the baser instincts of some viewers then that’s your business my friend. Regarding the Deadwood BJ soliloquies, they are (and I concede how others intepret them otherwise) character moments of a man at his most vulnerable. Also there is a strong distinction between Trixie and Ros and their roles in their respective shows.
    Personally with a few exceptions I found the sex scenes in GoT waaay to staged, they are set pieces not part of a cohesive whole.

    As for Ros I have made peace with her character and do not mind her, it’s how her scenes are written and handled that irks me. And it’s not because I’m a prude or have double standards or am a hypocrite but because it’s weak writing and direction.

    Season 2 I think overwhelmed D &D: it was too ambitious to succeed with the experience they had at the time. New locations, budget, the need to nail Blackwater, the need to pare down CoK was too much I think. There are shining moments in season 2 but they are many factors they will have to control to up the already high quality of the series. Not cheapening the narrative with poorly written and blatantly staged sex scenes is a big step in that direction.

    By the way Trixie never took part in any of the BJ scenes.
    Please do not attack me (not you) for having an opinion, I love the show and I just want it to improve.

  170. ASOIAF Fan
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    I would tend to agree with you if we were talking about S1 and the numerous use of sexposition that inform the story/plot but are taking place arbitrarily during a sex or nudity-heavy scene. That’s not even totally gratuitous as the exposition part is also there but it could as well have been in any other non-sexual setting and the story would have been the same.
    But i really don’t see it in the second season except as occasional background (Armeca being undressed in the Hound vs Bronn scene). It could be me : i’m not a big TV/movie enthusiast so i don’t really get what you mean when you talk about bad writing/acting/staging, could you point me towards S2 scenes that you found over the top or disconnected with the overall plot?
    Even the voluntarly gross brothel scene at the start of the season is the scene showing the most character development for Ros (You can’t complain that Ros is only there for T&A and then complain again when she is in a scene that essencially shows her progression) introducing the role she’ll (maybe) have to play in the future with Varys.
    Next Ros scene she’s not even nude or having sex (LF speech).
    After that it’s Joffrey’s present and then she’s mistakenly taken by Cersei.
    Last scene is with Varys and there is no nudity either.
    So the only nude scene of Ros this season (apart from joffrey’s present) is the scene where her character shows the most development in the whole serie, showing that she is smart enough to adapt to the big city brothel in better ways than all the locals.
    I know that you said that you made peace with the character but it’s the most used example of gratuitous nudity/sex in GoT so i focus on all her scenes and try to understand how 2 character development scenes (1 for Joff and 1 for her) with nudity makes her a T&A character (Yes it was the case in S1 but no more).

    I guess it’s time for another Deadwood marathon if it’s been long enough for me to forget who blows A. S.

  171. Zack
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    I’m rather surprised you think such low thoughts of Game of Thrones as to rank it with Lost!

    But you’re kind of tempting me to watch Buffy, after you were able to get me to finish The Wire. I watched the opening two-act episodes and they were so dreadful (What the hell, Julie Benz?) that I couldn’t take anymore. Maybe I gave up too soon.

  172. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    The complaints regarding sex and nudity in Game of Thrones are a bit out of proportion, I’d say. Every scene with either sex and/or nudity takes up a total of about sixteen minutes of total screen time through both seasons one and two. It’s actually been compiled into a video here:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/06/17/game-of-thrones-sex-scene_n_1601883.html

    I’d say Boardwalk Empire has more nudity and sexual content than GoT, but that’s not a complaint I’ve ever heard leveled against it.

  173. WildSeed
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap: I’m not sure I understand this stance. True Blood only costs 30-35 million dollars per season to produce. It rakes in tons of money for HBO, which then goes into the pot to fund other shows as well. If there was no True Blood, there may not be a Game of Thrones.

    Well you know, the stance was from the perspective as a novice and viewer. The point
    could have been Debated among Hollywood Insiders or Film Industry Employees but
    I am not any of those.

    It makes sense that one HBO cable show does not specifically impact another but it
    would be nice Not having any funds wasted on an insipid hour of lust and plotless
    drivel. If I could only dream it would be that failed projects meant extra funding for
    another. BTW I have no idea if the cancellation of ” Hung” or ” Luck” had any
    impact on the “budget ” for GoT for that matter. To dare , to dream , o’ my :D

  174. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    The show isn’t budgeted in relation to any other shows on the network, it is budgeted based on the scripts that are turned in for approval. True Blood getting cancelled would likely be a bad thing for Game of Thrones, due to the subscription style nature of the company. Any show that does well on HBO is good for any other show on the network, as they don’t make their money from advertisements (commercials), but from subscribers. It is in the best interest of HBO to have high-quality, entertaining original programming throughout the entire year.

  175. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    Zack:
    Joshua Taylor,

    I’m rather surprised you think such low thoughts of Game of Thrones as to rank it with Lost!

    But you’re kind of tempting me to watch Buffy, after you were able to get me to finish The Wire. I watched the opening two-act episodes and they were so dreadful (What the hell, Julie Benz?) that I couldn’t take anymore. Maybe I gave up too soon.

    The first season of Buffy is pretty bad (the first two episodes are not the worst the season has to offer), and so is the beginning of the second. Things start to get interesting when Angel loses his soul.

    I’ve always thought that Angel TV series are far superior to Buffy in every aspect. If you find Buffy unwatchably bad, just try Angel.

  176. Zack
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    Hm, maybe I will!

    It’s not Whedon, because I love Firefly. That’s one of the more entertaining shows I’ve ever discovered. I was anticipating more of the same from Buffy. If Angel is closer to that level, with the kinks ironed out, maybe I should start there and move onto Buffy when I’m more acclimated?

    Anyway, thanks for the comment and for letting me know I’m not crazy for not ‘getting’ Buffy right away.

    oh, I remember watching some episode where everybody was singing, a few years ago on TV, and it was quite good. How far along in the series run is it when there are regular episodes of that quality?

  177. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 12:12 am | Permalink

    Zack,

    The pilot two parter is more about testing the show’s waters and establishing it’s tailor made WB audience. Most pre TV DVD era series have a weak first season in my opinion. The majority of the 1st season is uneven in this fashion but there are great spots peppered about season 1. “Never Kill a Boy on the First Date”, “Angel”, and the season 1 finale “Prophecy Girl” are the standouts. Some eps you will like (the Hyena episode) and some you will hate (thee Willow robot episode). I recommend a marathon viewing of the first season as you will quickly get a feel for the rhythm of the series and experience the bad stuff and the good stuff all in one blow. Season 2 with the arrival of Spike and Drusilla is where the ball gets rolling. There’s a confidence and smugness that is missing from season 1 in the writing, acting and directing. And season 3 is probably my favourite season of television after season 4 of The Wire. As a lover of the Chris Claremont era of X Men in the late 70s and early 80′s I was not surprised to find out that Joss Whedon was as well. His favourite X Man was Kitty Pryde…shocker. His team dynamics on Buffy, Firefly and Angel reflect this influence. All in all BTVS is a fantastic comic book that just comes to life with its own mythology and mostly pre-planned story arc.

    As for Julie Benz, she redeems herself with flashbacks of her character on Angel and mark my word her Darla is one of the best vampires in popular fiction. Julie Benz has some great material on Angel.

    Angel is a great series too, but I it lacks the overall cohesiveness of Buffy IMHO. It might have reached it had it not been cancelled. Great series to watch after BTVS though. Alexis Denisof steals the show in the later seasons.

    Note: if you don’t care for Whedon’s style of dialogue than you probably won’t enjoy the rest of the series.

  178. Zack
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 12:18 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    Your comments here kind of take me back to my experience with Doctor Who. I remember trying that first episode with the mannequins and laughing at the f/x and shutting it off, but coming back soon after, having made a decision to “cut through” the rough first season for the promised greatness that was to come. And in the process I was shocked to find that it took no time at all to get used to the world of the show and I found myself loving it even in the rough parts of season one.

    I’ll try Buffy tomorrow then. Be prepared for another ‘thank you’ if I get into it like I did The Wire!

  179. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 12:38 am | Permalink

    Zack,

    Regarding your question to Alex about the quality of the episodes (IE: the musical Once More with Feeling) I found it begins with the season 1 finale but really hits the ground running with the two parter “Surprise/Innocence” in season 2. It just gets better and better from there. Season 3 is a tour de force all the way through. There is a fantastic Xander themed episode in 3 that is absolutely hilarious. It was written but Dan Vebber who wrote another fantastic episode called Lovers Walk that same season. It was the only two he did alas. Season 4 has some fantastic individual episodes such as’ Hush’ (the no talking episode) and ‘Restless’ which contains entirely prophetic dreams that actually prophesy future story arcs. Dreams play a big part in the series as a whole.

    If your a Firefly fan, you will love the last half of the seventh, final season! ;-)

    Anyway, enjoy!

  180. Abendstern
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 12:58 am | Permalink

    I tried out some HBO shows after all the praise they got here, but I still was not able to watch one to the end, somehow they just do not captivate so much like some other shows.
    The Sopranos I watched till season 5, but I do not feel the need to watch any more. Deadwood I watched the first season, Six feet under half of the first, true blood the first and the wire the first episode (I don’t know I did not understand much other then fuck and shit every 30 second, that was kind of comical on it self, I mean do you really speak like that there?)
    There were other shows that really brought me to my TV every week until the end, like the above mentioned Buffy or shows like charmed and Gilmore Girls. Maybe it is because I am a woman and hbo targets are mostly man?

  181. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 3:32 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    (thee Willow robot episode)

    This episode is one of the worst episodes of any series I’ve ever seen. The good thing is that it’s only uphill from there.

    I liked Angel more because it was a more serious show and I liked the characters more.
    And I still have a crush on Amy Acker.

  182. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 5:06 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    I don’t ever remember saying that season 2 is bad, you must be confusing me with someone else . Also i can’t handle idiotic comments like yourself and others so yeah, if i disagree with it, i certainly wouldn’t shut up just because you want to . Also i don’t take you seriously anyway since you said that Buffy is a piece of art .

  183. ASOIAF Fan
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 5:24 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    If Buffy/Angel are your examples of good writing/acting i’ll be glad to stick with bad writing in Got.

    Buffy is enjoyable when you’re 15 years old but it’s always the same tropes over and over again, some episodes were originals (1 or 2 each seasons) but the rest of them is the same plot repeted ad nauseum with a little bit of a continued story to give the illusion of depth when it’s in fact an episodic show (haven’t seen past season 4 or 5, wouldn’t have gone so far if i hadn’t been 16 years old at the time).

    I have no hesitation about watching The Wire, Deadwood or GoT as an adult.

  184. Drfunk
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    Abendstern:
    I tried out some HBO shows after all the praise they got here, but I still was not able to watch one to the end, somehow they just do not captivate so much like some other shows.
    The Sopranos I watched till season 5, but I do not feel the need to watch any more. Deadwood I watched the first season, Six feet under half of the first, true blood the first and the wire the first episode (I don’t know I did not understand much other then fuck and shit every 30 second, that was kind of comical on it self, I mean do you really speak like that there?)
    There were other shows that really brought me to my TV every week until the end, like the above mentioned Buffy or shows like charmed and Gilmore Girls. Maybe it is because I am a woman and hbo targets are mostly man?

    Not sure if it “targets” men per se, but some shows appeal more to others i guess. Surprised you lasted 5 seasons of the Sopranos because it’s a slow burner. The Wire is an urban GoT, there’s almost as many characters inhabiting it and it can be downright confusing. If you manage to watch the first six episode and be somewhat interested then the rest of the seasons will pull you in. It does deal with serious issues such as urban decay and the cause of it, so it’s not a show that everyone can “relax” and shut off their brain. Most people who come back from work tend to like shows that give them a good laugh and don’t force them to think things through which is why so many comedy sitcoms and their fake laugh tracks do so well nowadays.

  185. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    Amy Acker is the bee’s knees. Smart man ;-)

    And thank you for your civility.

  186. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    ASOIAF Fan,

    Despite your passive aggressive “grow up” message in there we will have to agree to disagree. Obviously I have raised a bone of contention here with my Buffy praise. Lots of derision here. Anyway to answer your earlier post i have thought it over and concede that the sex scenes/Ros scenes were better done this season. I am beginning to feel that the disjointed nature of the season (that’s how I saw it anyway)has more to do with the show makers not fully prepared with the demands the season required. D & D had to make Blackwater just right, they had to shoot on three different countries this season, they had to please the book fans, they had to coddle to the Unsullied, they had tinsel with actors leaving the series, with an HBO budget, with CGI all the while paring thenseconnbook book down for adaptation to make it fit the ten episodes. I imagine the Ros scenes were the quickest, easiest scenes to shoot and wee probably the first in the script, while the rest had to economized given different factors. So was it weaker than season 1 because of these factors? Most definitely but there was some shortcuts taken and ideas expanded that did not work out as they planned. To balance the story in these terms, to have to dangle between the reader and non reader audience was perhaps a feat for them.

    Overall I believe they did a good job as there are some great moments in season 2. Now that they have a feeling for what worked and what didnt this can only make season 3 better in my opinion and with luck bring GoT to the top of my list.

  187. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    I am sorry I have offended you with my opinion. If that was not you who said that than I humbly apologize. I am also sorry that you think my opinion is worthless.

    Good day.

  188. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    Is the Wire better than BB in your opinion ? I watched three seasons of BB based on someones recommendation and it’s awesome so far except the horrible, boring Fly episode .

  189. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    They are equally good in my opinion. The Wire as someone above stated is an urban version of GoT with tons of characters being moved across the chessboard that is the drug dominated city of Baltimore. Think of Baltimore and its environs as Westeros and the drug war as the battle for the Iron Throne. I think you will love it. If you care to gamble on my opinion as it is has been diminished as late It is arguably one of the best television dramas out there. As Darquemode says, it’s an experience not a series.

    Breaking Bad is more of a character piece, a focused view so to speak whereas the Wire has an epic scope.

    This is my hope for GoT by the way, that it becomes as strong and confident as The Wire.
    Hope this is helpful.

  190. Drfunk
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu:
    Drfunk,

    Is the Wire better than BB in your opinion ? I watched three seasons of BB based on someones recommendation and it’s awesome so far except the horrible, boring Fly episode .

    I would say so yes, but a lot people of the younger demographic would probably differ. Like I’ve said before, the Wire is not really a TV show. More of a social study that examines the very fabric of a modern american city. BB on the other hand is a highly entertaining study of human behavior/relationships. Though both shows should stand the test of time, the sheer scope and vision of the Wire is what makes it stand out. The fact that it was repeatedly ignored by emmy voters is perhaps the biggest joke of all. For anyone who hasn’t watched it yet, I would recommend grinding through the first season. It will really open your eyes on society as a whole.

  191. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    Sorry I attributed to a quote you said to Darquemode. My bad. :)

  192. ASOIAF Fan
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    I’m still not sure if i like S2 better than S1, i liked S2 more at first but the more i do marathon sessions of both seasons and the more i become uncertain.
    Some changes like the Jon/Qhorin storyline or the softenning of Arya’s character didn’t worry me at first but they kind of do the more i think about them.

    I may be a little harsh on Buffy, i have smart, adult friends who still love Buffy there’s got to be a reason. But i really can’t watch/be interested in episodic shows anymore.
    I couldn’t get into Fringe because of the first season, even if people tell me that it gets better after and become more serialised.
    I consider that it’s very hard (if not impossible) nowadays to make an original,unpredictable and interesting story in a single 40 min/1h episode (or make it 2h even and you’ll understand why i don’t really like any movie).
    I’m a huge book reader so i’m drawn to shows that have more of a book format than a tv show format, i guess i should be happy that The Wire or GoT even exist.

    If you took my last post as a “grow up” message directed against you i must have expressed myself poorly, i was just expressing my personnal experience with Buffy.
    I’m really not trying to provoque anyone and will be happy to agree on our disagreement.

  193. Joshua Taylor
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    ASOIAF Fan,

    No worries, let’s say different strokes different folks.

    I would recommend a revisit of Fringe as its serial nature officially begins mid season 1 as the past episodic adventures actually tie into the main storyline. Seasons 2, 3 and 4 are 95% one main story arc. If the final season season continues the trend than Fringe will surpass Lost for me.

    Also Jon Noble, Anna Torv, Jared Harris and Lance Reddick? Sheer awesomeness.

  194. darquemode
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    One of the interesting things about The Wire to me is how each season concentrates on a different aspect of the city via the current investigation of the police squad. In Season 1 you’re introduced to the street level dealers and see how the inner city is affected by the drug trade. In Season 2 you see a larger macro level look at the drug trade concentrating on blue-collar Baltimore and the shipping docks. In Season 3 the show starts to examine politicians and their connection to the drug trade mapped out in Season 1. Season for looks at the school system more clsoely. Season 5 concentrates on the media and newspapers.

    One really gets to see how the various aspects of Baltimore are affected by the drug trade and crime. The Wire is the story of Baltimore a seen through the various character arcs each season. There are ongoing personal arcs for the bangers, the cops and politicians that show how their lives evolve as the story of B-more goes on. It is one of the smartly written shows I have ever seen. Some cal it more of a visual novel than a tv series.

    I guess to compare more directly to Breaking Bad, BB looks at one man’s life and how those around him are affected by the drug trade and crime while The Wire looks at how a city is affected through a series of individual stories.

    It is also different in the way that episodes generally don’t end in cliffhangers. It has a different flow and feel to it from most other shows I have watched. The show’s level of realism is much higher than most series.

  195. Drfunk
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    darquemode,

    I found it hilarious that David Simon got called in by the Feds to inject some fakeness to the Wire. Apparently criminals were watching the show to study authentic criminal procedures performed by the police. Seriously, when you watch CSI, the lead detective tells the forensic expert to give him a DNA analysis which gets done in what 15min within the show? When in reality there’s backlogs of backlogs of unfinished testing. Despite many advances to modern forensics, it’s just not realistic on TV. Or how it takes a phone book worth of paperwork and a lot of pain and suffering to get a wiretap going on an alleged criminal (for local police that is).

    It’s almost a shame he didn’t do a sixth season which would have concluded his epic saga. They abandoned the project when it was clear no one in their staff was qualified to really give it authenticity (the effect of illegal immigrants). Lastly, the Wire has perhaps one of the most memorable cast of characters you’ll ever find in any TV series each with their own arc (a lot like GoT). The emmy voters were so enamored with Six Feet Under during a good chunk of the Wire’s run that it really didn’t shine as much. In the immortal words of Clay Davis “That’s some shameful shit there”.

  196. darquemode
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    I wonder whose idea it was for Clay Davis to say “Shit” in that sylized drawn out manner? XD

    Who would have thoght that single word line would be one of the more memorable from such a brilliant series? I think it’s right up there with “Omar comin’…” XD

    Ever seen this?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrfCixsd2N8

  197. Drfunk
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Lol yeah, my personal fav is when Mcnulty and Bunk solve the case only using a bunch of F words haha. Clay Davis is a legend though, anyone who can make Stringer look like a five year old is a stud. I wish GoT evolves to the point we get such well developed characters. Tyrion is well on his way, hoping the rest of the cast catches up to him.

  198. Zack
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    haha

    One thing that can be said for HBO programming is that it often seems to find a way to turn cursing into an art form. That example you mention is one of my favorites.

    Deadwood too. I don’t think Game of Thrones has gotten to that point yet but we have plenty of time.

  199. Lucazzy
    Posted August 31, 2012 at 5:31 am | Permalink

    Breaking Bad takes Best Drama category without a doubt. Season 4 of Breaking Bad was just beyond intense, and I loved it. Even more than I loved Season 2 of Game of Thrones. Maybe Game of Thrones would win if it followed the book better, but because they screwed up every character arc Breaking Bad takes the big win for it’s INCREDIBLE second half. Take that Gus!

    As for Best Supporting Actor, it’s a tossup between Gustavo Fring from Breaking Bad and Tyrion. Gus was amazing in Season 4 of Breaking Bad…and Tyrion was amazing in Season 2 of Game of Thrones. I just can’t pick!

  200. Jen@House Stark
    Posted September 1, 2012 at 12:23 am | Permalink

    Omar Brown:
    No nudity and violence in GOT? LOL, what is this Lord Of The Rings?

    Hear, hear!

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