The North Remembers: August 2009
By Hear Me Roar on in Editorial.

WiCnet Alternate LogoAugust 2009 was the month of our most illustrious moment when it comes to casting puzzle solving. Refresh you memory in this edition of The North Remembers, where we relive what was going on in the world of GoT three years ago.

  • Jennifer Ehle was cast as Catelyn for the pilot in the beginning of that month (once the series was picked up she decided against the long-term commitment, and was replaced by Michelle Fairley).
  • We wondered whether there was space for three new dramas at HBO, Boardwalk Empire, Treme, as well as Game of Thrones. The ultimate answer was yeswith Treme not taking a lead drama position in the HBO schedule.
  • Lots of rumours of roles being cast have started circulating, and we were eagerly awaiting some news. Then came the clues, a most complicated set of them, for several roles at once, in two parts. The posts attracted almost 1,000 comments each(!) while we were puzzling away at the challenge (with an extra role thrown into the mix). We did our best, have no doubt. In the end it turned out, as Winter put it, that WiC readers were geniuses. We got them all. Actors cast in the roles of Jaime, Theon, Arya, Sansa, Robb, Dany (Tamzin Merchant, to be replaced in the series proper by Emilia Clarke), and Jorah were annonuced, and GRRM enthusiastically weighed in on the choices.
  • With producers commenting on the pilot development positively, our hopes were getting higher every day.
  • A reader shared her impression after seeing Kit Harington (Jon Snow) in the stage production of War Horse and meeting with him, noting the actor’s excitement about the upcoming project.
  • David and Dan teased the Hound being cast, and later clues from GRRM revealed he was going to be played by Rory McCann (while the official confirmation only came later).

68 Comments

  1. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    Ah, memories! AND FIRSTies! Lolz.

    Well though a woman was not reading this website at that time, it is wonderful to be able to look back and vicariously experience your wonder as the cast was revealed. So many turned out to be great casting choices, even the replacements. Wonder if we’ll ever get to see the original pilot? Maybe in a retrospective box set?

  2. The Rabbit
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    aaahhh! the craziest month in wic.net history.
    remembering well those early mornings when I visited this site even before the breakfast just to see if GRRM had post some new clues or someone had brought a new crazy theory about the clues.

    One of the highlights: after first round of the clues (Amsterdam was involved) someone posted a photo of beautiful dutch actress wearing a blonde wig – a perfect Cersei.
    Her name was Carice van Houten – lately known as Mel.

  3. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    Never though Michael “yarp” from Hot FUzz would turn out to be such a fantastic actor.

  4. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    The Rabbit,

    Wonder if Lena Heady is aware of the nude walk in ADWD.
    She’s such a wonderful actress, her performance as Cersei has totally ruined Queen Gorgo in 300 for me.

  5. New Wolf
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    So when and why did Emilia replace Tamzin? I’m so glad she did!
    Can someone post some links concerning the replacement? I really want to know what people thought of Emilia in the beginning.

  6. Rygar
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Ah the nostaliga. It was WiC and all the early news and updates that forced me kicked my Heroin habit. However they did turn me into a sarcastic prick.

    Thanks WiC for everything! Seriously. I mean it. I never posted back then but have followed since the beginning. I tried the mess that is westeros and was very grateful to have an easy to navigate site dedicated to this show. Cheers.

  7. Rygar
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    *forced to kick. LOL

    I am not the biggest fan of Michelle’s Catelyn. The nerd in me really wants to see Jennifers portrayal in the initial pilot.

  8. The Instrumentalist
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    I hadn’t heard of this site until a few months before the airing of season one, so I missed all of this drama. I decided when I read the books a long time ago I would stay away from forums and the like, and only kept up with GOT show news through Martin’s Notablog.

    I am glad I found this place though – I’m not one for waiting and WIC always has the scoop ASAP. Thanks goes to you guys for being such a reliable source of news!

  9. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    *forced to kick.LOL

    I am not the biggest fan of Michelle’s Catelyn.The nerd in me really wants to see Jennifers portrayal in the initial pilot.

    You have got to be kidding me, she’s one of the best actresses in the show if you got issues with it it’s the writing of her which i personally don’t really care as Catelyn it’s not one of y favorite characters so it’s fine by me as long as the actress is good , so anyway Ehle would not have been that much of a difference .
    PS . I’m glad that TM did not get the part of Dany, she was awful in the Tudors season 4 and made me stop watching the show, so let’s be glad she’s gone for good .

  10. Rygar
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,
    Nope. Dead serious. There is just something about her that I dislike. Her acting is top notch but I dislike the way she jerks her head almost every time makes a statement and the slight pauses she does sometimes in between words in a sentence. It’s nit picky and vain, I know, but its the same reaction I have to Dormer’s crooked mouth every time she speaks. It makes it difficult for me to see past it and enjoy them. Oh well. I lose.

  11. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    I would love to see the Pilot episode. Look for the scene in episode 1 where Robert and Ned go hunting. It’s from the pilot and you can see Theon briefly in it with shocking blonde hair.

  12. WildSeed
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    I would love to see the Pilot episode. Look for the scene in episode 1 where Robert and Ned go hunting. It’s from the pilot and you can see Theon briefly in it with shocking blonde hair.

    Wow. Totally missed that.

  13. Al Swearengen
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    God I am so happy Tamzin was replaced, she’s not that attractive and isn’t that great an actress, I couldn’t stand her in The Tudors.

  14. Al Swearengen
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    The scene in the crypt with Ned and Robert is also from the pilot, Sean Bean’s hair is different in it, along with the feasting scene between Ned and Jamie.

  15. Al Swearengen
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    I’ll be surprised if that scene makes it onto the show, I just can’t picture Lena doing it.

  16. Darker than white
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    New Wolf,

    I was curious about that also, so I looked it up and found it. Here is a link.
    http://winteriscoming.net/2010/05/emilia-clarke-is-daenerys/

  17. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    God I am so happy Tamzin was replaced, she’s not that attractive and isn’t that great an actress, I couldn’t stand her in The Tudors.

    Not only that but what she said on her twitter about it made me lose even more respect for her if i had any to begin with . That goes to show how much ego can some people have, you are offered a big role on a big american tv series which can extend your popularity and acting experience and then insult it like it wasn’t that big of a deal .

  18. Abyss
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    Now I am curious. What exactly did she say about Game of thrones? – Or was her comment about The Tudors?

  19. darquemode
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 11:03 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    I think there are a couple more scenes that made into Episode 1 from the original pilot if I recall. Benjen talking to Ned at the feast and maybe Ned and Jaime verbally sparring ….I can’t recall the fourth. Each of the scenes has a more gritty film feel and the actors all have shorter hair and more trimmed beards etc. Easy to spot if you actually look for it as you watch.

  20. braincandy
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    It’s interesting that most of the posters from 2009 are gone. I wonder where they all went and why they left.

  21. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 12:22 am | Permalink

    Abyss,

    No, it was about GOT, she said something like she begged for months to get out of her contract so she could star in something better or something like that . The comment it’s still on her twitter though it’s protected so you have to follow her to see it .

  22. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 12:26 am | Permalink

    braincandy:
    It’s interesting that most of the posters from 2009 are gone.I wonder where they all went and why they left.

    Probably lost interest either on the show or site . Or when the show aired they didn’t need to come on the site since now there are more sites covering it then back then , i don’t know ,just saying .

  23. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 12:27 am | Permalink

    darquemode:
    Al Swearengen,

    I think there are a couple more scenes that made into Episode 1 from the original pilot if I recall. Benjen talking to Ned at the feast and maybe Ned and Jaime verbally sparring ….I can’t recall the fourth. Each of the scenes has a more gritty film feel and the actors all have shorter hair and more trimmed beards etc. Easy to spot if you actually look for it as you watch.

    The entire feast scene apart from the shots with Michelle and Lena are from the original pilot, i know this from the dvd commentary .

  24. darquemode
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    Thanks.
    I knew I had heard some of that scene was from the pilot, but I could not recall how much . .

  25. Andrew
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 1:56 am | Permalink

    I never thought the Tamzin and Nikolajs nose scandals were really as bad as people said till reading those comments. My oh my :P

    I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: I’d fight a tiny, asthmatic grizzly bear for the chance to see the pilot, specifically Tamzin. All in all though, Emilia Clarke is amazing so yeah.

    I really enjoy these North Remembers posts!

  26. braincandy
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 2:02 am | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    What do you think of the DVD set? Worth the money?

  27. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 2:40 am | Permalink

    braincandy:
    Claudiu Gherganu,

    What do you think of the DVD set? Worth the money?

    Yeah, i recommend the Blu-ray one more though because it has more features than the regular DVD , that’s of course if you have one .

  28. Shinyteapot
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    braincandy,

    *wave*

    Some of us are still here!

    Not posting as much at the moment, reality getting in the way. But I remember all this very well.

    I’d be interested to see the pilot but I don’t see it happening. As well as the recasts, there are bound to be other things that changed. And some people will no doubt find they prefer things that way or like the original actors better- I see it causing lots of arguments if it ever does appear!

  29. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    Shinyteapot:
    braincandy,

    *wave*

    Some of us are still here!

    Not posting as much at the moment, reality getting in the way.But I remember all this very well.

    I’d be interested to see the pilot but I don’t see it happening.As well as the recasts, there are bound to be other things that changed.And some people will no doubt find they prefer things that way or like the original actors better-I see it causing lots of arguments if it ever does appear!

    Yes, even though i have problems with TM i would still like to see the pilot too but the unfortunate reality is that we would never get it unless someone decides to illegaly put it on the internet like some pilots of other shows but it would never be officially released on the dvds or any other place for many number of reasons that we don’t know .

  30. Jackie MacPherson
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    Memories! I hated and loved those clues. I was always crap at them ;)

  31. Jackie MacPherson
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    I tweeted Jennifer Ehle once to ask if I could post my (rather distant) photo of her as Catelyn. Her response was that she was glad there were no photos out there of her as she believes there’s only one Cat and she’s doing a great job. :)

  32. Braincandy
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Shinyteapotnudes
    I remember seeing your name! Coltraine777 is still around too I think. I’m glad to see some people are here for the long haul. I think if you’re a GRRM fan it comes with the territory :)

    I hear you about life getting in the way. I wish I could post more.

  33. Alan
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    It’s amazing how many of the nasty posts are “anonymous”. That should tell you something about those people.

    It’s also pretty interesting that despite how many casting successes the show has had, people still react similarly now to casting news — almost entirely based on looks for the critical folks.

    I’m in the Trust Nina Gold/Acting is Paramount camp and I’m surprised most everyone else isn’t either. The acting is the best part of this show, perhaps we shouldn’t care if someone is ten years too old or not quite our type?

  34. Al Swearengen
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Claudiu Gherganu,

    What did she say

  35. Al Swearengen
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    I agree that acting should take presidence over looks but they should at least resemble the character. I’ll be peeved if they don’t cast exotic actors for the Martells.

  36. sjwenings
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Jackie MacPherson: Her response was that she was glad there were no photos out there of her as she believes there’s only one Cat and she’s doing a great job. :)

    I agree with her on that. Fairley is one of the best castings IMO.

  37. Joe
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    Why, she isn’t afraid to show some skin, just watch 300.

  38. Alan
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    Alan,

    I agree that acting should take presidence over looks but they should at least resemble the character. I’ll be peeved if they don’t cast exotic actors for the Martells.

    I don’ t think they need to resemble the character; they need to evoke the character. Jason Momoa didn’t resemble Drogo very much at all, but his looks evoked something that was very close to key character attributes of Drogo (though Momoa felt a lot “softer” to me than book Drogo).

    Charles Dance doesn’t look like Tywin, but he works. Maisie Williams has about the opposite of a horse-face (her face is round) and she’s cute as all get out, but she does pull off a tomboy look and feel in how she moves and she has likeable looks, so she works. Stephen Dillane doesn’t look like Stannis, but man does he look like a boring dude, and he’s a helluva actor, so yeah.

    I’d prefer the Martells to be olive skinned — it evokes a culture gap which is part of their character. And I’d like to see the color of the world reflected. But it’s isn’t absolutely core to me. I need Oberyn to be dangerous, a little wild, confident and cocky, sarcastic and snide. That’s more important to me than them being of darker skin.

  39. Alan
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Joe:
    Al Swearengen,

    Why, she isn’t afraid to show some skin, just watch 300.

    There’s been some comments that she has a no nudity clause. Not sure if that’s based on an interview of her season 1 scenes where she has had body doubles. I do think she might have been pregnant at the time.

    I think that Lena might be up for that scene because of the dramatic elements, but even if she isn’t, you can shoot it quite well without ever showing anything.

  40. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    Look up at one of my earlier post .

  41. Eleanor
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    I was a ferocious lurker back then. :)

  42. KG
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    There are a couple of other shots where he’s definitely blonde.

  43. MATTHEW
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    I think it’s kind of cool how WIC criticized the original actress who played Dany. You essentially said she’s not pretty and she can’t act!!! Youch!

    That’s a stark contrast to the reverence with which the moderators of this site now talk about all the actors involved, and how you slap anyone who makes an unkind remark about an actress’s looks or an actor’s abilitise. You should whip out the claws occasionally, like you used to.

  44. Ours is the Fury
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    MATTHEW,

    Shredding actors’ looks doesn’t improve the conversation. If you want to make fun of an actress’s face, there are plenty of websites where that’s encouraged and appreciated.

  45. MATTHEW
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    MATTHEW,

    Shredding actors’ looks doesn’t improve the conversation. If you want to make fun of an actress’s face, there are plenty of websites where that’s encouraged and appreciated.

    No doubt, but that’s hardly the point, is it?

    My point is merely that it’s interesting how the people who ran this site used to indulge in such talk, but now they’re oh-so-ethical and concerned with people’s feelings. It’s a good thing, I suppose.

  46. Zack
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    MATTHEW,

    If you’re into censorship, I guess. I’m fine with disagreeing with somebody, but I guess not everybody wants to even have to be aware of opinions that don’t mesh with their own.

    I think there’s a tasteful way to say “This person is not at all the best visual fit for the part.” People can’t expect everybody to just ignore looks in the discussion, unless the comment is positive. We’re all different. And I like seeing the various thoughts people bring to the table.

  47. Winter Is Coming
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Where have you seen us censoring comments that are critical of actors’ looks or performance? Pretty much every casting post comment thread dissects the actor’s looks in detail and many of the recap threads critique the actors’ performances. As long as you aren’t a dick about it, your comment won’t be deleted.

    As to my own opinions, I am always honest when I give my thoughts on here. If it seems I am positive the majority of the time, it is because I am generally pleased with the direction the production has taken. And they have earned my trust, especially when it comes with casting decisions, so I’m much less inclined to criticize them these days in that department.

  48. WildSeed
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming:
    Where have you seen us censoring comments that are critical of actors’ looks or performance? Pretty much every casting post comment thread dissects the actor’s looks in detail and many of the recap threads critique the actors’ performances. As long as you aren’t a dick about it, your comment won’t be deleted.

    As to my own opinions, I am always honest when I give my thoughts on here. If it seems I am positive the majority of the time, it is becauseI am generally pleased with the direction the production has taken. And they have earned my trust, especially when it comes with casting decisions, so I’m much less inclined to criticize them these days in that department.

    I have only read here you’re rallying against that with a call to order here. No worries,
    the majority of us have not forgotten this decorum ser. Let us toast this over a mug of
    Arbor Gold !

  49. Zack
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    Apologies for vagueness. It wasn’t clear from the context or from the post I was ‘replying to’ but I do not mean to refer only to moderators but users of the site who are quick to condemn a person for speaking his or her mind. I think a little less civility is okay if it gets us a little more honesty, and do not favor the inverse. People shouldn’t feel like they have to walk on eggshells.

    And I’m cool with a critical response to that type of comment, showing support for the actor/actress mentioned, so long as the poster keeps it to the comment and not the person posting the comment. “You’re an asshole for daring to think somebody is ugly.” Not helpful to the discourse, right?

  50. sunspear
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    Aegon the Conqueror,

    I’ll be surprised if that scene makes it onto the show, I just can’t pictureLena doing it.

    I’m expecting them to do it by having some zoomed in shots of Lena above the chest and then have zoomed out shots of a body double for the full-frontal.

  51. userj
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    sunspear: I’m expecting them to do it by having some zoomed in shots of Lena above the chest and then have zoomed out shots of a body double for the full-frontal.

    Well, she spends about 90% of the time basically hugging herself while walking so they could have Lena do any shots above the belt, and just have a body double for the shots from the back.

    I don’t think any body double would look similar enough to be convincing from the front unless you are REALLY zoomed out.

  52. Alan
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    Eh, if you’ve got the right to call someone “fugly”, I figure I’ve got the right to call you an asshole.

    Always the most entertaining part of those debates are the people who whine about their “right” to criticize the actors but get pissed off when anyone criticizes them.

  53. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    Zack,

    That’s because it’s pretty much true, also i don’t see the point of it but maybe you have some special insight that the rest of us don’t have or your one of the people who got shot down and now you’re whining like it would change something anyway .

  54. Zack
    Posted August 28, 2012 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    I’d agree that saying someone is “fugly” is never appropriate, but, for example, “The character should be more beautiful” or “His physique doesn’t really fit the description” are both the sorts of comments people will get on others’ cases about, as though any disappointment in differences from the text aren’t to be commented on, that all we should say is “Well, I’m sure he was cast for a reason” and speak only of hope and butterflies.

    It gets to the point where people just don’t bother, and a homogenized comment zone is completely inane.

  55. Alan
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 12:13 am | Permalink

    Zack:
    Alan,

    I’d agree that saying someone is “fugly” is never appropriate, but, for example, “The character should be more beautiful” or “His physique doesn’t really fit the description” are both the sorts of comments people will get on others’ cases about, as though any disappointment in differences from the text aren’t to be commented on, that all we should say is “Well, I’m sure he was cast for a reason” and speak only of hope and butterflies.

    It gets to the point where people just don’t bother, and a homogenized comment zone is completely inane.

    I suppose to a certain extent. But I still fail to see why people feel that they should be able to post anything they want on a message board AND at the same time, don’t feel commentary on their posts that disagrees for any reason is valid.

    One of the great things about the internet is how anonymity allows people to be more expressive where they would otherwise be shy; how distance no longer separates people with common interests.

    The awful thing about the internet is how anonymity allows people to be dicks.

    If you have the guts to call someone ugly, have the guts to be called on it. If you stop posting because someone calls you a dick, maybe you should understand how calling someone ugly may feel to them? It’s hypocrisy to both claim people should be able to take verbal criticism but then be annoyed when people do the same to them (to the point of apparently being intimidated into not commenting) and I don’t feel bad for them.

  56. Zack
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 12:27 am | Permalink

    Alan,

    Well…I mean. It’s not being ‘over-sensitive’ but rather just the feeling of “You know, I know exactly where this will lead if I say something the slightest bit negative. Is it worth instigating a 300 comment thread from the Internet White Knights?”

    I just think it gets tiresome to have people insulted for not being wild about certain choices. Granted, there are folks who go the other way, disappointed folks insulting fans as “sheep” for not seeing the flaws they do, and that’s equally boring to read about. It would be wonderful to have a place where people could disagree with opinions without being told off. I too rarely find people who can say “I disagree, but that’s cool.” Human nature will be what it must be, I guess.

    Shit, I don’t know. Nobody else seems to care. So whatever.

  57. Premislaus
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 2:06 am | Permalink

    Zack:
    Alan,

    I’d agree that saying someone is “fugly” is never appropriate, but, for example, “The character should be more beautiful” or “His physique doesn’t really fit the description” are both the sorts of comments people will get on others’ cases about, as though any disappointment in differences from the text aren’t to be commented on, that all we should say is “Well, I’m sure he was cast for a reason” and speak only of hope and butterflies.

    My problems with this kind of comments is that they

    1) make the commentator come across as very shallow, and in some cases sexist or vaguely racist, which obviously provokes a negative reaction on the part of other people.

    2) Highlight what I think is a flaw in Martin’s writings, in that he likes going for extremes a bit too much – his characters are either beautiful or hideously ugly, physically very fit or morbidly obese. GoT casting department has to work within the confines of real world, where things doesn’t work that way.

  58. Claudiu Gherganu
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 2:46 am | Permalink

    Premislaus,

    You got it spot on . That’s one of the things that i hate that Martin does in the series yet nobody is calling him out on it, which i find bogus. I Know this is not only him that does that, it’s a general thing in fantasy but you would think that being the innovator that he is in this genre he would do things a bit different .

  59. Al Swearengen
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    I just read Neil Marshall is going to be shooting a Pirate show for Starz, tell me again why he’s not directing an episode for season 3 ??????????

  60. Tír Airgid
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    sunspear: I’m expecting them to do it by having some zoomed in shots of Lena above the chest and then have zoomed out shots of a body double for the full-frontal.

    I’m thinking they might go for putting us in her eyes and seeing what she sees, the people’s reactions, etc, probably mixed with what you mentioned.

  61. Al Swearengen
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    sunspear,

    Seeing it through Cersei’s POV is actually a really good idea, I’d be perfectly fine with doing it that way, you’d be able to get some good crowd scenes like the little kid saying ” she’s just as saggy as my mum” etc.

  62. Alan
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Tír Airgid: I’m thinking they might go for putting us in her eyes and seeing what she sees, the people’s reactions, etc, probably mixed with what you mentioned.

    I’m sure there will be some Cersei POV shots, but it’s much too long of a scene (if they do it right) to hold POV. It’s a good idea but five minutes of POV is simply too much.

    I don’t know what they are going to do — HBO has been willing to do anything — but I do think the scene can be incredibly powerful without showing any real nudity.

  63. Al Swearengen
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Oh and I really doubt Lena will shave her hair as well.

  64. Morgan King
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    The problem I foresee with the Cersei bit is that it depends a lot on explaining the cultural shame of nudity in Westeros more than relying on our innate understanding of cultural mores about nudity. I think it’s going to be a tough sell – one that I didn’t quite get from the books – that her walk of shame should be as debilitating and power-wrecking as it’s portrayed as. Even after all the time locked up, it seems out of character for Cersei to be so broken up about it, and to buy into the whole concept of shame – it’s only when she meets up with Qyburn and Ser Robert Strong that we get the old Cersei back, but her thoughts during the ordeal seem genuinely devastated. I think the nudity itself isn’t going to be enough for the TV version to reduce Cersei to tears at the foot of the Red Keep – especially given the boobtastic HBO rendering – and they are going to have to focus more on the chaos and potential violence of the mob she’s oppressed for so long.

  65. Zack
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    Premislaus,

    Fair points both. It’s true that if we go by previous work and promo shots and decide prematurely that an actor or actress isn’t quite a visual match for the book description we aren’t giving the costuming/makeup and the actor/actress the benefit of the doubt, to mold the person into someone unlike any previous work done by that person. So comments in casting threads must always be made with that awareness. Plus as you say, to find an exact visual match for the character as written in the small percentage of the population involved in the acting profession, for the budget allotted, and who has a schedule that permits a commitment of this nature…it can’t be done most of the time and we have to take the best talent we can get.

    Still, though…most of us came to the television series as fans of the book, and can’t help but note these differences when they happen. And we discuss what we can, and that’s going to be the actor’s physical appearance and his talent level. It seems reasonable that if the person makes a clear attempt to frame his disappointment tastefully, it would be nice if it didn’t have to always come to a flame war. We might say “Your expectations are unrealistic” rather than insinuating someone is a bad person merely because s/he wanted something else.

    I don’t believe having and vocalizing an opinion regarding looks is necessarily a personality flaw. It might be if that’s one’s method of determining a person’s worth, but it seems to me to be fundamentally dishonest to pretend that looks are irrelevant entirely. Unless of course it’s a positive comment. Nobody wants to take all discussions of looks off the table. Just the critical ones. But positive remarks are often just as shallow as negative ones. And it isn’t like anyone’s going to look at me and then at George Clooney and not make a mental determination of which of us they’d rather look at. And I don’t lose much sleep over not winning that contest.

  66. steve-o
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Lena has quite a few Tattoo’s to worry about as well….

  67. Alan
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    Zack:
    Premislaus,

    Fair points both. It’s true that if we go by previous work and promo shots and decide prematurely that an actor or actress isn’t quite a visual match for the book description we aren’t giving the costuming/makeup and the actor/actress the benefit of the doubt, to mold the person into someone unlike any previous work done by that person. So comments in casting threads must always be made with that awareness. Plus as you say, to find an exact visual match for the character as written in the small percentage of the population involved in the acting profession, for the budget allotted, and who has a schedule that permits a commitment of this nature…it can’t be done most of the time and we have to take the best talent we can get.

    Still, though…most of us came to the television series as fans of the book, and can’t help but note these differences when they happen. And we discuss what we can, and that’s going to be the actor’s physical appearance and his talent level. It seems reasonable that if the person makes a clear attempt to frame his disappointment tastefully, it would be nice if it didn’t have to always come to a flame war. We might say “Your expectations are unrealistic” rather than insinuating someone is a bad person merely because s/he wanted something else.

    I don’t believe having and vocalizing an opinion regarding looks is necessarily a personality flaw. It might be if that’s one’s method of determining a person’s worth, but it seems to me to be fundamentally dishonest to pretend that looks are irrelevant entirely. Unless of course it’s a positive comment. Nobody wants to take all discussions of looks off the table. Just the critical ones. But positive remarks are often just as shallow as negative ones. And it isn’t like anyone’s going to look at me and then at George Clooney and not make a mental determination of which of us they’d rather look at. And I don’t lose much sleep over not winning that contest.

    It’s been my experience on here that if someone is respectful and rational, the response is usually the same and argues on the same point. “This is not how I envisioned the character” is often responded with “Acting is more important.” It’s a discussion board and if you are intimidated by counter-arguments, I don’t know what to tell you.

    If you come on and say “Tamzin is fugly and Dany is soooo hot!” you are likely to get the same level of respect back that you show the actress.

    Seems fair to me. Free speech isn’t the right to say something without consequences; it’s right to say (most) things without *legal* consequences.

  68. Mormegil
    Posted August 29, 2012 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    I wonder who the other 2 actresses who just missed out on Dany were and if they did get other parts in the show? Pretty sure neither was Emilia as IIRC they spent months doing more auditions which they wouldn’t have needed if they went straight to someone who almost got the part first time round.

    This is what I found most interesting from George’s post about Merchant:

    “I believe I mentioned at worldcon that we were down to three finalists for Dany, which was true at the time. It was a hell of a hard choice, since the other two contenders were also great… so great, in fact, that I hope we can use both of them in other roles should the series last several seasons.”


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