Day 73: A big event in Belfast
By Ours is the Fury on in Filming, Production.

Filming is moving along nicely for season 3 of Game of Thrones. According to the Dubrovnik Times, production crews arrived on September 12th, and filming will occur in the city and in the nearby Trsteno Arboretum September 27th through October 7th. It is unknown at this time what storyline will put the Arboretum to use, but it’s unlikely it’ll be standing in for the Water Gardens as suggested in the article. No casting for any Dorne-based character has been announced this year.

In cast member updates:

  • Sources report that Kit Harington was on set this week, in full costume, but still in a splint and using crutches. It looks like his injury hasn’t delayed filming too much.
  • Liam Cunningham, our Davos Seaworth, tweeted on the 17th that he was finished filming for the year.
  • Josef Altin, who plays Night’s Watchman Pyp, did only one day of filming, on the 11th. Pyp was left behind at Castle Black while Jon and the Rangers ventured beyond the Wall in season 2.

We have another new report out of Belfast that references spoilers for season 3. There will be MAJOR SPOILERS under the cut!

Sources tell us that the wedding of Tyrion Lannister and Sansa Stark was filmed this week, with a few hundred extras and many main cast members present. Their wedding will appear in episode eight.

Ours is the Fury: Altin filming only one day hints that Jon’s storyline for this season will end where many have predicted, with his returning to the Wall. Dance and Glover being sighted at the airport fits with the wedding report, as Tywin’s presence is key to that plot and Pycelle would most likely be at a large ceremony.


404 Comments

  1. OtherAndrew
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    Pretty late for that event. I guess that means no PW this year.

  2. blackbird7309
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    I doubted they would put RW and PW into one season. More to look forward to in season 4 :D

  3. ciri
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    I hope that RW going to be in 3 season!

  4. Rygar
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Oooh what shall I wear to the affair? Glad to hear Kit is hobbling about. Would have loved to have seen those three at the airport.

  5. Two Feathers
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    Filming is moving along nicely. I know that there were three units filming at various locations last week. One is the Dragon unit, one is the Wolf unit, but I don`t know the name of the third. Probably Lion.
    I was lucky enough to get a days work on location with Dragon unit last week.It was a fairly minor scene, which is not from the books. But it was nice to be back.
    I also know that a battle scene is to be shot in about three weeks time over four nights… Speculate away.

  6. lavenderlullabies
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    With Jon’s last scene for the 3rd season being that he returns to the Wall (as suggested in the article) does that mean that Ygritte already dies this season?? I hope not! I love Rose Leslie and would love to see more of her in season 4. Also, wouldn’t that leave a bit too little story for Jon in season 4? If I remember correctly from the books, not much happens after Jon returns. Well, of course he gets chosen as Lord Commander. Which a huge thing. But that can hardly be all that’s left for Jon in season 4, right? If I forget something please enlighten me, been a while I read the books

  7. The Rabbit
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    So, let me speculate a bit:

    According to some sources at the end of August the need for big number of extras was announced for one week of shooting in August.
    The other recent interview with (hmmm I forgot) suggested the filming in the summer some mistery scene (it could be anything I know – but let me guessing – it makes me happy)due to the actor aviability – could the actor be David Bradley? (he is not regular on the show)
    And the scene – RW?

    btw, I ll be present at Titancon in Belfast this week-end, and you ll be first to know any news I hear.
    maybe I ll write some brief report – surely not Fabio s soap-opera style last year. ;)

    Damn, I miss Fabio over here!

  8. The Rabbit
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Two Feathers,

    See you on Saturday at Europa Hotel?

  9. Ours is the Fury
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    lavenderlullabies,

    No, Ygritte wouldn’t have died by then. Jon returns to the Wall to warn them of the coming invasion and that might be the end of the season for him. And then they have to prepare for the battle. Then we’d have the battle episode, I imagine, during which Ygritte would die, so we’d have her well into the fourth season. And then the Night’s Watch commander election storyline, so Jon would have some stuff to do.

  10. serum
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    I feel like for the non-readers who frequent the site the Liam Cunningham tweet should be blacked out with the spoiler tag as non-readers don’t know if he is dead or alive based on what they’ve seen in the show and that post will give it away for them.

  11. Ours is the Fury
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    serum,

    Liam’s S3 participation has been discussed so widely in articles recently and here several times already that it would be a bit futile. I can’t think of a single non-reading fan I know that actually thinks he’s dead.

  12. Two Feathers
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    The Rabbit:
    Two Feathers,

    See you on Saturday at Europa Hotel?

    Yes Rabbit , it will be nice to see you again. Have a safe journey……..;)

  13. lavenderlullabies
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Ah, thank you! I assumed the battle scene would have already happened when he returns, but you’re right of course, I remember now :)

  14. Cary Storm
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    If Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding is in Episode 8, they wouldn’t have the Red Wedding in the same episode, would they? Because unless that is in episode 8 as well, we won’t be seeing Joffrey getting offed this season. Damnation.

  15. lavenderlullabies
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    serum,

    I believe if a non-reader doesn’t want to be spoiled, he/she should not read such articles. Because even if this show was not based on books, the moment you start looking at articles for a new season you know you’ll be spoiled a little. That is why you read such articles, to get some information on what is coming in the new season before you actually see it.

  16. Joshua Taylor
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    Oho!

    If Sansa’s wedding is in episode 8 then I predict either 2 things will happen. The RW and Sansa’s wedding will occur in the same episode as in “it’s the wedding episode of Game of Thrones” which would fantastic in my opinion, as it will make for a very tense episode. OR…Benioff and Weiss are going to sport real balls and have the RW for the season finale. I hope they go for the latter for maximum impact. I hear non readers always claim how nothing happens in the season finale (aside from Dany of course)…Perhaps the usually eventful episode 9 can be the fall of Astapor?

  17. Rygar
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    I wonder what they will do with Sansa’s hair for the party.

  18. tek
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    I think they should end season 3 at the RW, but before anything actually happens. Maybe the actual ceremony takes place, and they fade out during the feast. Make non-readers think its a happy ending place. Then, first thing in Season 4. BAM!! and finish off that first episode with the PW

  19. darquemode
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    Ecstatic Tyrion’s wedding is at that point in the season. To me there was no way the RW could be Episode 7 or 8 like some thought….

    So if Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding is in Episode 8 in my opinion there is no way they do the RW in Episode 9 and the PW in Episode 10. I think it would lose all the impact if they had the two weddings in back-to-back episodes.

    I would prefer the RW in Season 4, but I can deal with it as the season finale if they save the PW for Season 4. I’m happy the pace is not as break-neck as some had imagined!

  20. Maester Tcost
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    Almost all of Arya’s storyline for ASOS takes place before the RW. They can and will do some juggling and add some scenes, but for this reason (among others) I’m guessing that the RW won’t happen until Season 4, with the PW soon thereafter.

  21. hellharlequin
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    I think the RW will be in the beginning of season 4

  22. darquemode
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    hellharlequin,

    I really hope so!
    Your fingertips to the Seven’s ears……or doth hellharlequin worship R’hllor? XD

  23. The Instrumentalist
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    I think the former would be best IMO! As soon as I heard that it was in episode 8 I imagined the RW and T&S’s wedding happening simultaneously, switching back and forth… if done well, it could be amazing.

  24. Jake
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Not sure why people are saying the RW will be in EP8 with Sansa and Tyrion’s wedding. 100% the PW is Episode 9, just like the last 2 seasons with their big events taking place in that ep.

  25. Ghost of Harrenhal
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    I keep debating if I the RW should be the season finale. I think if they did it would show some big balls bcuz people are going to feel devastated as I was reading the book. I think episode 9 would be best for non readers bcuz unlike book readers they have to wait whole yr to find new hope if it the season finale.

  26. The Instrumentalist
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    Jake,

    Because the episode George is writing (episode 7) is called “Autumn Storms” and if you recall there were storms before the RW. So some speculate that they will break the pattern, or maybe even have another big event on the ninth like the fall of Astapor.

  27. Alan
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    lavenderlullabies,

    No, Ygritte wouldn’t have died by then. Jon returns to the Wall to warn them of the coming invasion and that might be the end of the season for him. And then they have to prepare for the battle. Then we’d have the battle episode, I imagine, during which Ygritte would die, so we’d have her well into the fourth season. And then the Night’s Watch commander election storyline, so Jon would have some stuff to do.

    Not only that, but there are really three battles at the Wall. Styr & Co attack from the South and Jon & Co battle them off at Castle Black. This is where Ygritte dies, where they burn the stair, etc.

    After that, the Wildlings attack from the North. This is the battle with the turtles and the giants and all that. After that, we get Jon taken into custody by annoying people. Then we get him sent to assassinate Mance and Stannis showing up (Battle 3), and after that, interaction with Stannis (being offered Winterfell), the machinations around Lord Commander and being elected).

    It’s not completely overfilled, but there’s a decent chunk there, especially when you consider the Mance battle at the Wall is several days long.

  28. Adam Whitehead
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    But that can hardly be all that’s left for Jon in season 4, right?

    Depending on how it pans out, Season 4 could have the end of the ASoS storylines and a chunk from the start of both AFFC and ADWD, so we could have:

    Jon’s election as LC, the Battle of the Wall and then the earlier scenes from ADWD of him dealing with Mel and Stannis. How much depends on where they can find a good end-point for his storyline in S4.

  29. Watson
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Oh great, now we get to have this conversation again. Scheduling weddings is such a hassle.

  30. darquemode
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    darquemode,

    Fixing my timeline erros since I was not paying attenion as I typed and ate…. XD
    Red Wedding in Ep 7, Tyrion’s wedding in Ep 8, PW in Ep 10 seems like too much to me is what I was trying to say, but I between eating a dying keyboard and typos….. I guess that looks like the route they are taking, but I would still prefer PW in Season 4.

    Watson:
    Oh great, now we get to have this conversation again. Scheduling weddings is such a hassle.

    Ha! XD

  31. Alan
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    What’s the source for Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding in Episode 8? That’s incredibly slow pacing or — and I hope not — significant movement of plot points. What the heck is KL going to do until then?

    I am betting that’s not right. There’s some miscommunication there. Either someone is straight out wrong or someone heard they were filming this wedding and also heard a wedding would be in 8.

    An alternative would be a Godfather-style like juxtaposition of the two weddings. That would be interesting.

  32. Ours is the Fury
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    The source has to be kept private but I have confidence in them. Their information is firsthand. There is no miscommunication.

  33. Eleanor
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    I am surprised to hear that it’s so late.

    This can only mean one thing: LOTS OF TYRELL SCHEMING!
    (Or very little Sansa in the early eps, though that would make me sad.)

  34. Cary Storm
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Watson:
    Oh great, now we get to have this conversation again. Scheduling weddings is such a hassle.

    You have that right. Real life is no easier, trust me.

  35. Macha
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    OHOHO, I like your last sugestion. Yes, a ballsy move, I’m all in favor of RW for ep. 10. Woo hoo! Though I think it will probably be in ep. 9, as per tradition.

    So many interesting bits to chew on, mmm.

  36. tek
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    word!

  37. fuchur
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    The Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones_(season_3) states:

    According to Benioff, the third season will contain a particularly memorable scene from A Storm of Swords, the prospect of filming which was part of their motivation to adapt the novels for television in the first place.

    that has to be the RW! I mean it’s definitely the most memorable scene in the whole series.

  38. the other guy
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    Interesting news ! Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding in episode 8 is quite surprising.
    Also, I don’t understand why so many people think that the RW won’t be the usual episode 9 “big event” this year. I just can’t see it happen in ep 10 as a finale… and certainly not in S4.

  39. OtherAndrew
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Any indication if we’re getting Symon Silver-Tongue this year? I know he’s not important to the larger plot but I always thought the bit with him was important to Tyrion’s character.

  40. Alan
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    Alan,

    The source has to be kept private but I have confidence in them. Their information is firsthand. There is no miscommunication.

    Huh. Well, then I imagine that they are moving it back within the overall structure — that is, Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding will simply occur later and not that the whole storyline will be delayed.

    I suppose I could be wrong, but very little happens before the T+S wedding. There’s some Tyrell scheming in KL, and if they are doing Dontos/Dontos replacement, it can be there. And Oberyn could come, if he was cast.

    I guess they could focus a lot on Dany, Jon, Arya and simply shift all of KL back. Because I feel like Queenscrown and the lead-in to the RW is in Episode 7 — makes sense, so I still think the RW is also in 8. To be honest, I’d love cutting back and forth between the two.

    I’m not a huge fan of the PW in Season 3 because of a) lack of time to process the PW and b) what it does to Sansa and Tyrion’s Season 4 storylines but I’m also a bit worried about not having a “happy” ending to Season 3. Saddling Sansa with an awful marriage, killing Cat and Robb, Arya stuck with no family, etc. ain’t the greatest of places to end.

  41. Cary Storm
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    The RW is going to happen this season. We’ve already heard word weeks ago of a filming involving lots of party guests. This one seems to have just happened. It’s Joffrey’s wedding that may or may not be in S3.

  42. Alan
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    fuchur:
    The Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones_(season_3) states:

    that has to be the RW! I mean it’s definitely the most memorable scene in the whole series.

    They’ve specifically mentioned that in other interviews as the one thing they’ve really been looking forward to doing. Of course, they’ve also talked about Dracarys! so I suppose it could be that as well.

  43. Cary Storm
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Alan:
    An alternative would be a Godfather-style like juxtaposition of the two weddings.That would be interesting.

    And brave and kind of creepy.

  44. Jay Arms
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    lavenderlullabies,

    The two battles at Castle Black, with the Thenns and then with Mance when Stannis shows up.

  45. Johan Sporre
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    I thought this whole post would be about TitanCon as surely that’s the year’s biggest event in Belfast :)

    I know the books can’t be kept as the blueprint for the season, with how they’re cutting, adding and moving things around, but still: Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding happen at just about a third of the way through ASoS, which fits pretty neatly with 20 episodes for the whole book, though the last half of the book is the more intense one. The RW takes place a full 260 hardcover pages later on, and the PW another 100 pages later at almost the 75% mark in the book. I don’t think there’s any possibility of all three weddings in season 3. Breaking off season 3 in the middle of the RW could be quite effectful I think.

  46. Richard Casey
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Well The Astapor and Sansa Wedding chapters are next to each other, then about 20 chapters later we get RW so to say they will be 8 and 10 is possible just about but 8 – 9 is prob not. Moving the Astapor stuff to 9 to break the 2 weddings would make episodes 9 and 10 amazing, Dragon massacre, red wedding then maybe jon defending the wall then the end scenes would be sam coming up the well, arya getting hit with the axe, jon looking out over the wall, the preparations for joffs wedding, stannis getting the message from the wall and dany setting off to the next slave town then for season 4 cast the martells and start off with tyrion meeting the red viper on the way to the wedding,

    Major scenes for season 3 – 4 a hell of a lot happens in the book

    Red Wedding
    Purple Wedding
    Jamies Hand
    Jamie and Brienne
    John meets mance
    Mance Attacks the wall
    Wildlings over the wall
    Coldhands
    Mormonts death
    Ygrittes Death
    Sam the slayer
    Jon gets elected
    Stannis vs the Wildlings
    Beric vs the Hound
    Arya on the road with the hound
    The wall attacked from castle black
    Balon Greyjoy dying
    Tyrions Trial
    Red Viper vs The Mountain
    Tyrion vs his dad
    The tyrells stuff with sansa
    Sansa and petyr
    Lyssa vs the sky
    Zombie Cat
    Dany and the Sellswords

    Did i miss anything ?

  47. Richard Casey
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    oh and you cant have the PW without the red viper so that cant be season 3 unless more people are cast

  48. sunspear
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Well, this throws my timeline completely out of whack. My plan was for RW in episode 8 and PW as the season finally.

    Really, this completely screws with the pacing. I’ve got my copy of SOS with me, and Sansa’s Wedding happens on page 394 in a version with 1,128 pages. That means essentially nothing gets done plot wise all season.

    My only explanation is that they rewrite the story so that Sansa is told she will be wed to Tyrion and they live together for a few episodes, just like in the book. Then they just push the wedding back to episode 8 and they don’t have to change anything.

    I also thought we’d get to see the first battle at the Wall this season. Doesn’t seem like that’s happening.

  49. Jim
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    Richard Casey,

    Boooooooring

  50. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Two Feathers,

    TF you’re back! Was just thinking about you today!
    How’s the injury healing?
    anyway in case you haven’t heard some of us have started an informal forum
    http://www.wicgeeks.com
    would love for you to join

  51. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    I am so relieved the PW is not in season 3. Looks like they are really slowing down the story for this season which I’m thrilled about!

  52. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    I predicted something like that couple of months ago episode 10 ending, and was laughed down. Not looking so ridiculous now, I’m with you all the way.

  53. Alan
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    sunspear:
    Well, this throws my timeline completely out of whack. My plan was for RW in episode 8 and PW as the season finally.

    Really, this completely screws with the pacing. I’ve got my copy of SOS with me, and Sansa’s Wedding happens on page 394 in a version with 1,128 pages. That means essentially nothing gets done plot wise all season.

    My only explanation is that they rewrite the story so that Sansa is told she will be wed to Tyrion and they live together for a few episodes, just like in the book. Then they just push the wedding back to episode 8 and they don’t have to change anything.

    I also thought we’d get to see the first battle at the Wall this season. Doesn’t seem like that’s happening.

    The King’s Landing Timeline does not have to stay in the same place as all the other timelines in the book. The only interdependency of note is the RW until Jaime returns to KL.

    So the relative placement of the KL storyline to Dany’s in the text is fairly irrelevant.

    Furthermore, within the KL storyline, while I wouldn’t necessarily propose it, the T+S wedding doesn’t need to happen where it does. It needs to happen before the Purple Wedding, for sure, and it probably should happen before or at least at the same time as the RW, but… bethrothal is good enough, as you point out.

    I don’t think they will live together ahead of time. Especially since they have to be really looking to dodge the Tyrion-Sansa sexual dynamic. I hope they merely G rate it rather than drop it, but we’re not seeing the explicitness of the book. Focusing on her distaste for him in an emotional/intellectual manner is how they will go, even though I think Sansa’s rejection of Tyrion on all levels is important.

  54. Morgan King
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Even if they don’t stick right with the book, Sansa’s wedding is 22 chapters before the RW and there’s still a ton of story climaxes to cover between the two – Craster’s Keep, The Hound fights Beric Dondarrion, Hoster Tully’s funeral, Jaime fights the bear!, Dany takes Yunkai, Jon warns the Wall, Sam and Coldhands!

    I think you are all setting yourselves up for disappointment thinking that the Red Wedding is going to be in this season – there’s a ton of action to close the season with, and the element of surprise from putting it at the beginning of Season 4 is much more in character with how its handled in the original narrative.

  55. Tom O' Sevens
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    Oho!

    If Sansa’s wedding is in episode 8 then I predict either 2 things will happen. The RW and Sansa’s wedding will occur in the same episode as in “it’s the wedding episode of Game of Thrones” which would fantastic in my opinion, as it will make for a very tense episode. OR…Benioff and Weiss are going to sport real balls and have the RW for the season finale. I hope they go for the latter for maximum impact. I hear non readers always claim how nothing happens in the season finale (aside from Dany of course)…Perhaps the usually eventful episode 9 can be the fall of Astapor?


    The fall of Astopor will be in the first 5 episodes. The casting for Daario has him recite lines in which he already mentions Dany’s unsullied army

  56. Tom O' Sevens
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    tek:
    I think they should end season 3 at the RW,but before anything actually happens. Maybe the actual ceremony takes place, and they fade out during the feast. Make non-readers think its a happy ending place. Then, first thing in Season 4. BAM!! and finish off that first episode with the PW

    that would suck for non readers. Lame season finale

  57. littlejanet
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    You say :
    I’m also a bit worried about not having a “happy” ending to Season 3. Saddling Sansa with an awful marriage, killing Cat and Robb, Arya stuck with no family, etc. ain’t the greatest of places to end.

    I think you are right, but here is what you are missing:

    Bran, Hodor and the Reeds will criss cross with Sam and Gilly at the wall. That is happy.

    John will assert himself as a man of the Nights Watch and escape the wildlings. That is happy.

    Danaerys will conquer some number of cities (I’m thinking 2) and surround herself with adoring subjects. That is happy.

    Sansa will have a plan to escape. That is happy.

    Not a lot of happiness, but it’ll have to do, methinks.

  58. Varamyr Fourskins
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    At least Sansa gets her knight in shining armor. Well… not a knight, exactly, but his armor is pretty shiny.

  59. Tom O' Sevens
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    the other guy:
    Interesting news ! Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding in episode 8 is quite surprising.
    Also, I don’t understand why so many people think that the RW won’t be the usual episode 9 “big event” this year. I just can’t see it happen in ep 10 as a finale… and certainly not in S4.

    Finally someone that makes sense :)

  60. Albano
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    lavenderlullabies,

    You kidding? After Jon returns the Wall there’s the amazing battle between the night’s watch and Mance’s Army! In which later arrives Stannis, what’s really important in future events in the Wall.

  61. Carne
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    I’ve already mentioned this before, but might as well again. Nothing huge really:

    Tony Way will not be back as Dontos Hollard.

    Ben Crompton is back as Eddison Tollett (obvious).

    Edward Dogliani is back as Rattleshirt.

  62. Tom O' Sevens
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    Richard Casey,

    Lyssa vs the sky LMAO

  63. Tom O' Sevens
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    Richard Casey,

    u are correct there should not be a PW unless the Red Viper is cast

  64. Macha
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    Carne:

    Ben Crompton is back as Eddison Tollett (obvious).

    That’s all I need to know. :)

  65. Albano
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    OtherAndrew,

    What does PW mean? You lost me.

  66. Tom O' Sevens
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    Episode 8- Tyrion/Sansa wedding
    Episode 9- RW
    Episide 10- Arya vs Polliver “is there gold in the village?”

  67. Winterfell Burning
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    It makes no sense for the Tyrion-Sansa wedding be in episode 8? WTF they are going to do in King’s Landing before it? There is no material for 7 episodes- heck, there isn’t material for more than 2 or 3.

  68. lavenderlullabies
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    Why is everyone so eager to have the RW in S3? The RW occurs very much to the end of the book (not quite the end, but close enough). What do you wish to see in S4 when you try to stuff all the good things into S3? The PW will definitely happen in S4, if not for the simple fact that Oberyn has not been cast for S3. As for the RW… Personally I would love to have that in episode 10 of S3, but only parts of it. It would be awesome if they only showed the wedding, without yet turning it into a red one. So bascially the season would end with non-readers believing that Starks and Freys work together and think Robb has won yet another victory. Then we’ll have S4 episode 1… and in that episode the wedding continues and well.. you know the rest. And of course let the same episode end with the viewers wondering if Arya is dead, too.

  69. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    The RW or PW can’t happen at the start of the fourth season because the critics are usually sent the first 3 or 4 episodes of the season to review. They won’t place a monumental moment in one of those epsiodes. People seem to be forgetting that D&D have scrapped the idea of adapting the books and instead are adapting the series as a whole. Events will be moved forward and back to fit the show.

  70. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    lavenderlullabies,

    No. The RW has to take place in 1 episode. AS I have said, there is zero chance of them having it in an episode that is sent out as a screener for the critics. The RW is happening in season 3. It is the most memorable event in this series and it will happen in the 9th or 10th episode of season 3.

  71. Ingemar Svensson
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Why are people even thinking that PW would be in season 3? To me it was completely obvious that PW would be in season 4 from the day they announced that SoS was split into two seasons.

    There are still plenty of stuff to fill season 3 as it is. You have a lot of set up to do ahead of the RW involving Riverrun and things like that. Then you have the whole Jaime and Brienne trip. Arya and BWB. Jon and the wildlings. White walkers at the fist. Dany and the unsullied. I think King’s Landing will be featured much less than in season 1 and 2.

  72. sunspear
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    Tom O’ Sevens,

    Albano,

    We don’t want RW in episode 9 because audience’s will expect something big to happen that episode, and the RW will be foreshadowed enough as it is.

    If you’ve read all of book 3 PW refers to the Purple Wedding, the fan nickname for Joffrey’s wedding.

  73. lavenderlullabies
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I didn’t say I think that’s how it’s going to be, only that I would find it very cool if it happened that way. But I agree with you, I don’t think it’s likely to happen. But the PW MUST be in S4

  74. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    Ingemar Svensson,

    They are only filming in Croatia for 2 weeks. I know they film a lot of the interior KL scenes in Belfast, but that still seems like it isn’t that long. I get the feeling that they won’t feature KL that much in S3 as well.

  75. tysnow
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    If T+S wedding is in Ep 8, according to the books, Oberyn Martell arrives in KL before that event and befriends Tyrion in a minor way. So if D&D keep this plot point intact, RV should appear in Ep. 7.
    Also the reason no casting for the part announced could be that a very big name was given the juicy quest starring role and HBO wants to keep it a surprise till it happens. Create an ad campaign around it, for example saying someone big arrives in Westeros in EP 7, and get viewers excited and quizative concerning it.

  76. WildSeed
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    I am so relieved the PW is not in season 3. Looks like they are really slowing down the story for this season which I’m thrilled about!

    You and me both king Aegon.

  77. Currer Bell
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Alan: Saddling Sansa with an awful marriage

    Actually, Tyrion and Sansa did not need to be such a disaster. If Sansa had grown up a little bit and seen beyond the physical, gone beyond the courtly love nonsense, Tyrion might have made an excellent husband for her. Remember the RW had not happened yet, so all was not hopelessly lost although one admits that Ned’s death was a major-almost insurmountable-impedement, but Tyrion was innocent there. Intelligent, loyal, witty, kind and honorable (he refused to consummate his marriage with an unwilling partner), Tyrion would have been a effective protector for Sansa (no Littlefinger involvement). Sansa would have given Tyrion a power base in the North which might have allowed him to deal more effectively with his appalling family. Having finished off Joffery and Twyin, pragmatic Tyrion would have been perfect Hand for Stannis softening the latter’s rigid inflexibility. Tyrion could have given Sansa the happy marrage she imagined with Willas Tyrell.

  78. WildSeed
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    I wonder what they will do with Sansa’s hair for the party.

    Just something old, something new, something bold, something blue……….

  79. the goat
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    Morgan King,

    What you are failing to consider is that any or all of those events you mentioned could easily be moved up to before Tyrion-Sansa’s wedding w/o affecting the KL storyline at all.

  80. Clinton
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    I’m convinced that the RW will definitely take place in Season 3. I don’t think it’s far-fetched to think that the show would move the T+S wedding to a different point — I could see them moving it to occur simultaneously with the RW or afterwards, both which could have interesting results…

  81. LiamWilliams
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    I read an interview awhile back with D and D where they said they would have to leave the country when a certain episode of season 3 was aired it was so shocking (or words to that effect) this could only mean the RW so I am 100% certain it will be in season 3.

  82. Clinton
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Ingemar Svensson,

    Agree. I think extra time will also be devoted to developing Jon and Ygritte’s relationship and (hopefully!) the Brotherhood Without Banners.

  83. the goat
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    tysnow,

    That would be great, but again, his arrival could easily be moved back (as has happened with so many other character introductions). He really only HAS to be there for the PW.

  84. Alan
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    littlejanet:
    Alan,

    You say :
    I’m also a bit worried about not having a “happy” ending to Season 3. Saddling Sansa with an awful marriage, killing Cat and Robb, Arya stuck with no family, etc. ain’t the greatest of places to end.

    I think you are right, but here is what you are missing:

    Bran, Hodor and the Reeds will criss cross with Sam and Gilly at the wall.That is happy.

    John will assert himself as a man of the Nights Watch and escape the wildlings.That is happy.

    Danaerys will conquer some number of cities (I’m thinking 2) and surround herself with adoring subjects.That is happy.

    Sansa will have a plan to escape.That is happy.

    Not a lot of happiness, but it’ll have to do, methinks.

    It may have to. Still somewhat of a risky ratings move, though it’s what I would probably do (Delay the PW). I want some time in between the RW and PW.

  85. Alan
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    Currer Bell: Actually, Tyrion and Sansa did not need to be such a disaster.If Sansa had grown up a little bit and seen beyond the physical, gone beyond the courtly love nonsense, Tyrion might have made an excellent husband for her.Remember the RW had not happened yet, so all was not hopelessly lost although one admits that Ned’s death was a major-almost insurmountable-impedement, but Tyrion was innocent there.Intelligent, loyal, witty, kind and honorable (he refused to consummate his marriage with an unwilling partner), Tyrion would have been a effective protector for Sansa (no Littlefinger involvement).Sansa would have given Tyrion a power base in the North which might have allowed him to deal more effectively with his appalling family.Having finished off Joffery and Twyin, pragmatic Tyrion would have been perfect Hand for Stannis softening the latter’s rigid inflexibility.Tyrion could have given Sansa the happy marrage she imagined with Willas Tyrell.

    No disagreement — more her perception of it. And the age difference.

  86. Alan
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    the goat:
    tysnow,

    That would be great, but again, his arrival could easily be moved back (as has happened with so many other character introductions).He really only HAS to be there for the PW.

    Agree. I like how Oberyn and Tyrion get along, but vengeance for Elia and her children is enough motivation for Oberyn. He doesn’t need to have any real relationship with Tyrion.

    Still, I think their chats will be different with bars in between them.

  87. Selmy
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Wow! Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding in episode 8 is going to be AWESOME!!! It will be the first time we see a W in GOT. We never saw Dany and Drogo’s, and Robb’s was not done as good as I would’ve liked (7 gods???? Alone??? In the woods???)

    As for the Purple Wedding, I don’t know why people think it will be in season 3…. IT’S AT THE END OF BOOK 3!!! So probably episode 7 or 8.

    I think the Red Wedding will be in season 3 finale. It will give the season a big BANG and then there will be a year for non readers to mourn this horrible but amazing scene. AND I believe it will help the ratings, which are really good by the way, but it’s not like the show is cheap.

  88. Icy Fingers
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    I’m sorry if someone else has mentioned this but doesn’t Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding happen WAAAY before the RW. Catlyn and Robb have plenty of time to discuss disinheriting Sansa so her kids will have no claim to Winterfell and Robb talks about naming someone else (possibly Jon, I’m not sure if Cat talked him out of that or not) as his heir

    It may or may not be important in the grand scheme of things, it’s just a moment from the books that stuck with me

  89. Two Feathers
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    Two Feathers,

    TF you’re back! Was just thinking about you today!
    How’s the injury healing?
    anyway in case you haven’t heard some of us have started an informal forum
    http://www.wicgeeks.com
    would love for you to join

    Yeah! Pretty much back to normal now. Thanks for asking bud.
    I had a quick look at wicgeeks.com, looks good. Nice bunch of folks on there. I will check it out again when its not bed time. Night , night.

  90. mummer
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    Albano,
    “Purple Wedding” is fan shorthand for Joffrey’s wedding, because some events occur in it that involve something purple.

  91. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    Icy Fingers,

    Yeah, this is something worth talking about. What is the impetus for Robb to legitimize Jon and name him his heir? In the show they could have it be them finding out Bran and Rickon are dead. In the book I believe it was Tyrion and Sansa’s marriage that made him do it. It is possible that they receive word of Sansa’s betrothal a couple of episodes earlier.

  92. Caro H
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    So lots of surprises i didn’t see coming! first, is the actor who played dontos won’t be coming back, does that just mean they will drop his whole in-between-messenger role with sansa & lf (since the latter has already told her about wanting to help her out), but someone mentioned earlier that there was this scene full of mistery that was filmed recently which i would have thought would be the bit of sansa/dontos… and about shotting in the beautiful Trsteno Arboretum, it could work well for the water gardens but there isn’t anyone from dorne who has been cast yet, so i used to think that sansa’s wedding would occur there, yet now, since they probably did that scene in the throne room already, what will happen there- something for dany?
    i am also a bit surprised that sansa and tyrion’s wedding will happen till episode 8 since i was expecting episode 3 or 5 to have it, and the RW (which i really want to see in this season) happening in either 8 or 9 or 10.. there was some talk about how they could put in the same episode sansa wedding and the RW together, which i think would work, so yeah, this news raised a lot of questions!
    oh for 193 days to pass by quickly!!

  93. tysnow
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    Icy Fingers,

    doesn’t Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding happen WAAAY before the RW

    There was some time between that event and the next, I believe the largest gap though was 25 chapters from the RW to the PW.

  94. Trenton Martell
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    I dont know why people think that the RW will be in S4. To me, that just makes zero sense in any way. The RW is probably the most emotionally jarring, as well as the most important event in the entire book, and why would they put something that powerful at the beginning of a season? It makes much more sense to put that scene (ala Ned’s dead and Blackwater) at the end of this season than at the beginning of another. Not to mention most of the plot in the first half of SoS is leading up to the RW, and putting off to the next season breaks that tension.

  95. KG
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    hellharlequin:
    I think the RW will be inthe beginning of season 4

    Season premiere. THAT would take balls … I can hear the fan-screams already :D

  96. sunspear
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    tysnow:
    Icy Fingers,

    There was some time between that event and the next, I believe the largest gap though was 25 chapters from the RW to the PW.

    No ser. Gap between S+T W and RW, 311 pages. Gap between RW and PW, 126 pages and 9 chapters.

  97. Selmy
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    Trenton Martell,

    Couldn’t agree more with you.

  98. Norman
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    tek,

  99. Norman
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    What is the “PW”?

  100. KG
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    Norman,

    If you don’t know, then it’s a spoiler. Just don’t worry about it :)

  101. MedievalFantasy
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    If Harington is still on a crutch, that’s good. They can use it for when he is hit by the arrow when he escapes the wildlings, as he needs one after, anyway.

    So I guess with Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding in episode 8, we’ll most likely get the RW in episode 9. Ep. 8 does seem a little late for this event, but it seems they are trying to fit everything from book 3 in there, so that’s good.

  102. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Norman,

    Purple Wedding-Joff Wedding

  103. OtherAndrew
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    It seems to me like they are making the Tyrion-Sansa wedding into more of a climax than it is in the books, and that they may even be building the whole season’s KL material around it. So the KL arc prior to it will be mostly focused on building it up — there will be some new twists and turns that aren’t in the books, the Tyrell plot to get her to Highgarden will probably get further along before it’s stopped, give the QOT a lot of screentime and get Cersei, Varys, and Ros involved somehow too.

  104. Al Swearengen
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    Wouldn’t now be a great time to shoot Jon’s scenes where his leg was damaged from that arrow ?

  105. Selmy
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    Norman:
    What is the “PW”?

    Read only if you’ve read the 3rd book!!! Spoiler!! : It’s Joffrey’s wedding with Margaery, it’s called the ”Purple Wedding” since Sansa’s hairnet had ”I don’t remember what they’re called purple stones”, which killed Joffrey.

  106. MetalgoddessAMB
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    OH GEEZ…I just started crying thinking about the RW! I think I’d better go back and watch the new Hobbit trailer 20 more times…

  107. Tenesmus
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    Again, given that this is a TV show, why not EP8 Tyrion/Sansa Wedding, EP9 RW, Ep10 PW?? Final scene Season 3 is Zombie Cat

  108. Al Swearengen
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    Selmy,

    I assumed it was called the Puple Wedding because purple is a regal color.

  109. Al Swearengen
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    Tenesmus,

    Well considering the book is being split into two seasons and the fact that zombie Cat doesn’t appear until the epilouge I doubt that’s going to happen.

    Speaking of zombie cat that’s the one aspect of this entire series that I don’t like, she should have been left dead.

    And they better leave Jon dead in TWOW !!!

  110. lol
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    Having the PW as the final scene of the season would sooth some of the hurt after the RW and it would be a big “WHO SHOT JR” style finish that would keep people talking all year.

    Can you imagine? Joffrey is at the height of his power, he chokes to death. and the final shot is Cersei screaming for Tyrion to be arrested. The cliffhanger in the book was practically written for TV on its own already.

  111. KG
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    lol,

    Spoilers?

  112. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    The Tyrion and Sansa wedding was sooo awkward in the books hahaha. I’m assuming that if book 3 is being split into 2 seasons, that the Red Wedding will be at the very end of season 3 maybe? And I can’t wait for the for the attack on the FOTFM in the beginning, so pumped. Damn, a lot of major characters are gonna bite the dust next year.

  113. Ours is the Fury
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    It’s called the Purple Wedding because of the purple amethysts in Sansa’s hairnet (that match her dress in part, actually) turn the wine purple in Joff’s cup as it’s poisoning it. And then his face goes purplish as he is strangling to death on the poison. Lots of purple.

  114. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    It was never confirmed that Jon is dead in ADWD. And I think that it would be dumb to just kill him off after all the allusions to his true parentage. I think that GRRM just likes to torture his fans that way haha. It really keeps you on edge, having to wait for a couple of years to see if this character that you love is even still alive. That’s kind of how I felt about Davos when we’re told that he was executed in AFFC.

  115. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I’m pretty sure that Robb wanted to legitimize Jon mainly because he believes that Bran and Rickon are dead. That and the love that he has for him obviously.

  116. tysnow
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    OtherAndrew,

    I agree, it does seem the T+S event will be the big one for KL this season, which means the PW will become the KL event one for season 4, furthermore. nothing important would occur in the 5th because most of the important KL events happened at the end chronologically of Feast and Dance. Therefore they might move Tyrion’s post PW stuff into season 5. All the stuff with Cersei and Marg becomes the main KL plot for season 6, whew!

    I wouldn’t mind this because it gives us one more season with the Lord of Castamere.

    I believe this season D&D will build up the RV and Dornish similar to Stannis and Mance, and introduce them in season 4. I do hope they sign a big name and keep a lid on it.

  117. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    Tom O’ Sevens,

    Unfortunately, Poliver was already killed by Jaqen in the show. That was one of the biggest things that pissed me off regarding the changes that have been made.

    When Arya stabs him over and over in the book, asking him those very same questions, that was the breaking point for her. It was one of the most emotiol things that I’ve read in the series.

  118. Al Swearengen
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel,

    I really don’t see how Jon is going to survive those multiple stab wounds and frankly I’d be pretty angry if he did, you’ve got to have some sort of realism and consequence in that universe. The fact that Bowen Marsh gave Jon the final blow while saying “for the watch” made it more poignant for me.

    If Melisandre gives Jon the kiss of life even after he choose to ignore her advice and help it’ll ruin the series a little for me.

  119. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    lavenderlullabies,

    The RW actually happens closer to the middle of ASAS.

  120. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    Why would it ruin the series for you? I mean I definitely agree with you about realism but I think that it would be a little crazy to think that such a thing could happen to Jon and Melisandre wouldn’t intervene. Especially since the last time that she looked into her fires asking to see Azor Ahai, the flames showed her Jon. If she thinks that he’s the prince who was promised, I don’t see why she wouldn’t do everything in her power to save him.

  121. Eric
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    If they are really going to split book 3 into two seasons as has been widely discussed, I can’t imagine they will have both RW and Joffrey’s Wedding the same season. They are the two most anticipated events of the book. They will have to split them up.

  122. DB
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    If they make Sansa kneel for Tyrion or make Tyrion in any way sympathetic the night of the wedding I swear I will kill them all, Catelyn style

  123. MetalgoddessAMB
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    Maegor The Cruel,

    I really don’t see how Jon is going to survive those multiple stab wounds and frankly I’d be pretty angry if he did, you’ve got to have some sort of realism and consequence in that universe. The fact that Bowen Marsh gave Jon the final blow while saying “for the watch” made it more poignant for me.

    If Melisandre gives Jon the kiss of life even after he choose to ignore her advice and help it’ll ruin the series a little for me.

    My theory: It wasn’t Jon’s body that was stabbed. Jon’s already marching south by the time that person was stabbed. It was somebody glamoured to make everyone believe it was Jon. The person who was stabbed will die, but It wasn’t Jon.

  124. Greg Lane
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

    Hey guysi have read all the books, i know what RW means but can some remind me what PW means, mind blank. :)
    Joshua Taylor,

  125. tysnow
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:28 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    Personally, I feel that Bran will warg into Jon, and live his life thru him. Bran is far more intelligent (jon is making to many poor decisions); call him unJon 2.0. Meanwhile Jon wargs into Ghost, this makes Ghost far more dangerous and deadly.
    Bran controls unJon with Snowghost at his side, that is a very lethal combo. furthermore, Bran gets to boink Mel and Mera in the future :)

  126. Greg Lane
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:29 pm | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel,

    i totally agree. i felt the same about Davos, and everything that John has done in ADWD, i felt oh sh*t not him.

  127. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:29 pm | Permalink

    MetalgoddessAMB,

    The problem with your theory is that the whole stabbing happened from Jon’s POV. If it was from someone else’s then maybe but because it was from Jon’s own POV, it can only be him. We read his thoughts right up until it happens.

  128. Cary Storm
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    Eric,

    That’s assuming Season 4 is entirely the remainder of ASoS. I find it unlikely that they won’t start working into the other two books for at least some of the characters/arcs.

  129. Cary Storm
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    tysnow:
    Al Swearengen,

    Personally, I feel that Bran will warg into Jon, and live his life thru him. Bran is far more intelligent (jon is making to many poor decisions); call him unJon 2.0. Meanwhile Jon wargs into Ghost, this makes Ghost far more dangerous and deadly.
    Bran controls unJon with Snowghost at his side, that is a very lethal combo. furthermore, Bran gets to boink Mel and Mera in the future :)

    I can’t tell if you’re being serious. If not, then ROFLMAO.

    If you are, then I feel the need to talk about you behind your back.

  130. King Tommen
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel,

    It’s actually The Tickler who is killed by Jaq’en. Polliver (who is the guy who killed Lommy on the show) is alive and well and more importantly, is in possession of Needle which is probably a very strong hint that we’re going to still get that scene in the Inn with Arya, the Hound and him. Arya won’t be able to scream the exact same things she did at The Tickler in the books but I’m sure she can come up with some choice words for Polliver as she’s stabbing him to death with Needle.

  131. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    Greg Lane,

    Yeah man. I just chalk that whole stabbing thing as GRRM fucking with us. Even in a world where anyone can die, and we’re obviously used to any of these characters getting killed off, I refuse to believe that about Jon. He’s just been built up as way too important. On a side note, I can’t wait to see what’s been going on with Rickon and Osha in Skagos. He’s obviously grown a lot since we last saw him at the end of ACOK. And I personally predict him as becoming the Lord of Winterfell when this is all over.

  132. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    King Tommen,

    Haha yeah, that’s what I meant to say. But you get my point about why that particular change shouldn’t have happened.

  133. Cary Storm
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    Maegor The Cruel,
    If Melisandre gives Jon the kiss of life even after he choose to ignore her advice and help it’ll ruin the series a little for me.

    Well too bad, GRRM trolled another fan. He doesn’t often leave long drawn-out deaths at the end of books, does he? I think that would be a first for him. Expect something positively unique though. While I think your possibility there stinks of Melisandre ex machina, I think George is capable enough with coming up with a solution we haven’t thought of but that fits perfectly.

  134. King Tommen
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel,

    The Tickler is such a minor character on the show and in the books that I don’t think whether it’s him or another a-hole from Harrenhal that Arya goes off on makes much difference. I don’t expect many audience members would have a good enough memory to go back the full year + it would take to get the reference Arya would be making when screaming at the guy. Far better to just have the guy who took her sword away from her be the one who gets the brunt of her rage. Between the two characters, Polliver’s actually the one who killed someone she knew so I would say her connection to him is a little more personal.

  135. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm: And brave and kind of creepy.

    A woman had suggested that possibility many threads ago, possible interspersing of the RW and the T&S weddings, as a few others have since so it’s not a new theory/suggestion/possibility though still intriguing. But, as they’ve semi-disclosed that T&S will happen in ep8, a woman thinks they will not do that other thing but save the other event for the 10th episode to end the season. A tragic ending of the season to be sure, but dramatic. With perhaps some other events with other plots to round it out. Fun with Jamie and Brienne perhaps?

  136. Kyle
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    I really hope that they have stones to have the Red Wedding be the final scene of season 3. Cat crying over her son’s death and the collapse of her world as she is butchered would be a fantastic closing moment before fading to black. Or maybe I am just sadistic >:)

    The RW always did seem like the natural ending point to the 3rd season for me once they announced they were cutting the book in half. What I believe they should do is have some awesome stuff happen in the 9th episode to throw off nonreaders etc. Maybe have a giant battle for Robb where he and and his forces win some victory over the lannisters. Have him on the verge of defeat only to have the Frey’s and Bolton arrive to save the day ala Tywin in the second season (Bolton went off to bring Frey reinforcements in this scenario).

  137. Nicole
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    I dunno if I can handle Seasons 3 & 4!! Seriously the RW will be awful to see.

  138. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:03 am | Permalink

    King Tommen,

    I agree with you as far as viewers of the show probably not being able to remember The Tickler a year later. I guess it’s something that you can only understand if you’ve read the books. You constantly hear him questioning his victims and when Arya snaps and throws those questions back at him, it’s powerful stuff. Sure, they can just have her do the same to Poliver and be a great scene on the show, but it’ll never feel the same to me. And I know that deviation is always a complaint when it comes to adaptations. It’s just something that I have to remind myself of from time to time.

  139. Sinslash
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:30 am | Permalink

    If Sansa and Tyrion’s wedding will be in episode 8, maybe they will expound more on Sansa and the Tyrells (which happens before that wedding).

  140. sjwenings
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:58 am | Permalink

    There seems to be 2 common misunderstandings here.

    T&S wedding in ep 8 is not a confirmation that we won’t have the RW in ep 8 also. I mean, why would it be??

    Neither is it a confirmation that we will not have PW in ep10.

    Again – theres just nothing standing in the way of this happening. The – “but the books”-is just not an argument. Neither is the idea that you can only have one wedding in one episode – where did that idea come from? D&D change things, in case you haven’t noticed. The y might cut things out, and move things around. They’ve done it before, and they’ll do it again.

    Might be you’re right, I’m just saying the “evidence” is just way too weak to assume anything.

  141. mags giantsbabe
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:04 am | Permalink

    What about the queen of thorns? The arrival of the rest of the Tyrells will fill up some KL stuff. But even if that’s not enough, then good riddance to not seeiing much of KL, because as someone already mentioned, we can get to see more of other arcs, like Jon and Dany, and there was that tweet a month or so ago that the BwB is in a substantial amount of episodes for S3. And I think we at least need a meaningful intro to the Reeds.

    I wonder how the cinematographer and directors will work around Kit’s crutches, like, will he at least be able to walk ok for a scene? And if they give substantial attention to the love story, then great, because it is nb for what happens (depending on how it happens) in season 4.

    Four night shoot for a battle? :) the attack from the north or the south I wonder.

    I keep feeling all of this plot moving and a lot being filmed for S3 is happening because we might be getting twelve episodes.

  142. Ren Snow
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:42 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    Posted September 19, 2012 at 4:10 pm | Permalink
    lavenderlullabies,

    No, Ygritte wouldn’t have died by then. Jon returns to the Wall to warn them of the coming invasion and that might be the end of the season for him. And then they have to prepare for the battle. Then we’d have the battle episode, I imagine, during which Ygritte would die, so we’d have her well into the fourth season. And then the Night’s Watch commander election storyline, so Jon would have some stuff to do.

    And don’t forget that one part of the battle is the raid coming from the south, in which Ygritte and the Magnar of Thenn die, and then the Big Fucking Battle at the Wall, in which Stannis appears to save the day

    mags giantsbabe,

    keep in mind that Jon actually gets injured in the books. His leg gets an arrow wound while trying to flee the Wildlings and return to Castle Black

  143. Alan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:55 am | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel:
    MetalgoddessAMB,

    The problem with your theory is that the whole stabbing happened from Jon’s POV. If it was from someone else’s then maybe but because it was from Jon’s own POV, it can only be him. We read his thoughts right up until it happens.

    There are a lot of hints — from the prologue to Melisandre seeing Jon turn into ghost and back into Jon in the flames — that suggest Jon’s soul will go into ghost and that he will become human again. I think the ice cells will also play a role.

  144. Alan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:56 am | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel:
    King Tommen,

    I agree with you as far as viewers of the show probably not being able to remember The Tickler a year later. I guess it’s something that you can only understand if you’ve read the books. You constantly hear him questioning his victims and when Arya snaps and throws those questions back at him, it’s powerful stuff. Sure, they can just have her do thesame to Poliver and be a great scene on the show, but it’ll never feel the same to me. And I know that deviation is always a complaint when it comes to adaptations. It’s just something that I have to remind myself of from time to time.

    It’s not even a year later. It’d be TWO years later.

  145. Ser Lemon Cakes
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:17 am | Permalink

    I guess this confirms that we get no Satin this year then *pouts*.

    I also feel that timeline-wise it probably conforms that Noah Taylor and Burn Gorman are BWB. I’d bet that Taylor is Tom.

  146. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:30 am | Permalink

    Alan,

    How would he become human again if he dies though? I can understand the whole Ghost thing but not him becoming Ghost again. It’s an interesting theory. I think that the prologues in the books really tell a lot more then some might realize. The one in AFFC is just as important because when TWOW comes out it, will deal will events of the last two books because a lot of the events run simultaneously. Jaqen being at the Citadel with Sam is a major thing.

  147. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:34 am | Permalink

    Ser Lemon Cakes,

    I would assume that in season 4 is when we should probably be meeting Night’s Watch members that we haven’t met yet, like Satin and Bowen Marsh. In addition to The Red Viper and Dornishmen in general.

  148. Currer Bell
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:42 am | Permalink

    Speaking of Oberyn Martell and the PW, might one suggest:

    Jimi Mistry = RV

  149. Ser Lemon Cakes
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 4:07 am | Permalink

    Jimi Mistry? I always think of him as more of a comic actor, but perhaps he has the chops? I tend to see Sendhil Ramamurthy for RV in my mind, but I concide he could be too young and pretty. How about Ace Bhatti? he was wonderfully menacing in ‘The Shadow Line’. I could start my Satin wishlist here but that is rather too extensive I fear!

  150. Stannis for King
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 4:18 am | Permalink

    Does anyone know if David Bradley is back for this series? A WiC feature on returning actors (and non returners) would be an excellent idea ;)

  151. Currer Bell
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 4:23 am | Permalink

    Ser Lemon Cakes,

    Have you seen Mr. Mistry as the terrorist Latif in Strike Back? Besides, a wicked sense of humor would not be out of place for the RV

  152. GameOfThrones Italy
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 4:23 am | Permalink

    Tante novità! date uno sguardo #gameofthrones

  153. Maester Tcost
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 4:26 am | Permalink

    D&D could film the PW without having cast The Red Viper. They might omit him altogether and have Bron, or even someone totally unexpected such as Loras, fight the Mountain and lay him low — only to get killed himself instead. Someone else could fill the role that Bronn has is AFfC.

  154. Anon
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 4:50 am | Permalink

    Two Feathers,

    Raven unit

  155. mags giantsbabe
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    Ren Snow

    Sorry, can’t read the spoiler tag on my phone, but curious what you want me to keep in mind :)

  156. Michael Harper
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 6:19 am | Permalink

    Stannis for King,

    I think the moment that someone reveals whether or not he is in Season 3 will basically reveal to us fans if the Red Wedding will certainly happen this season. Someone who knows how to, should try reaching out to Bradley’s representatives and see if we can get something official from them. :)

  157. loco73
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    Happy birthday George!!!!!!

  158. Richard Casey
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 6:47 am | Permalink

    Maester Tcost: Sorry, can’t read the spoiler tag on my phone, but curious what you want me to keep in mind :)

    They could not omit him as then the whole martell thing couldnt happen

  159. Mike
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    End of season for me:

    Red Wedding
    Aria hit in head by The Dog
    Jon Limps back to warn the wall
    Bran arrives at the wall
    Dani arrives at Yunkai

  160. Mike
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    Mike:
    End of season for me:

    Red Wedding
    Aria hit in head by The Dog
    Jon Limps back to warn the wall
    Bran arrives at the wall
    Dani arrives at Yunkai

    if this ends here (chapter 56 0f 83) to maintain timelines season 4 will be the end of ASOS and the beginnings of both AFRC and ADWD

  161. Rygar
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    Well I heard that they are calling off the wedding until after the winter so no need to worry about what episode it should be in.

  162. Tír Airgid
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    OtherAndrew:
    It seems to me like they are making the Tyrion-Sansa wedding into more of a climax than it is in the books, and that they may even be building the whole season’s KL material around it. So the KL arc prior to it will be mostly focused on building it up — there will be some new twists and turns that aren’t in the books, the Tyrell plot to get her to Highgarden will probably get further along before it’s stopped, give the QOT a lot of screentime and get Cersei, Varys, and Ros involved somehow too.

    Didn’t think of it that way, but now you mention it sounds quite plausible, and it would explain the casting of such a figure for the QOT’s role.

  163. Quowala
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Hmmm surprised to hear the Tyrion/ Sansa wedding will not be till ep 8. I was thinking more like ep 3 or 4. But glad they’re not rushing anything. So maybe Tyrion/ Sansa wedding for ep 8 then RW in ep 9 and PW in ep 10? That would be a hell of a wham-bam-bam. Can’t decide if that would be really cool or OTT… The PW would be great as the season 4 opener… hmm have to wait and see I guess!

  164. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    DB,

    Ok how was Tyrion unsympathetic towards her?
    If my memory is correct (and I just read this like a week ago) she was unsympathetic towards him. He didn’t force himself on her, something he was fully within his rights to do. Please explain?

  165. Tenesmus
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    What makes me think Jon will stay dead is that he served his purpose in getting the Wildlings south of the Wall. Whate makes me think he will live is the three headed dragon; Dany, Jon, and Aegon. If Jon warg’d into someone else, woud he still be a Targaryen? Can wargs assume control of a Dragon? Could his mind hang out in Ghost, then jump into a Dragon at some point? Wouldn’t it be awesome to get a Dragon POV???

  166. Ours is the Fury
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    I’m hoping we’ll see a lot of plotting and shenanigans with the Tyrell plot before we reach episode 8.
    Aegon the Conqueror,

    It’s hard to believe that a thirteen year old is the unsympathetic one when she is being forced to marry a much older man against her will. I don’t think it makes Tyrion especially heroic for not raping her on their wedding night. I’m not going to give him a huge amount of credit for not doing something obviously terrible. And the society reasoning doesn’t fly, because Tyrion knows just how bad raping your wife is.
    I understand he’s in a bad situation in King’s Landing himself but he certainly has a lot more choices than Sansa does.

  167. Mags Giantsbabe
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    Ren Snow,

    Yes, but I was wondering about the Iceland scenes where he is supposed to walk around as “normal”, but I suppose they will find a way around that.

  168. Queenofthorns
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    DB,

    Amen.

    But Given their track record pretty sure they will do their best to make Sansa look irrational and superficial and Tyrion like a shining knight/victim.

  169. Queenofthorns
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    Tyrion assumes that Sansas lack of trust towards him is due to his appearance rather than the much more rational explanation – she has every reason to believe he conspired with the rest of his family to destroy her family. It seems quite likely the show will gloss over this since they have a serious mancrush on Tyrion and have cut everything that would have made him look at all unsympathetic.

  170. Ours is the Fury
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    Queenofthorns,

    The issue of Tyrion’s likeability is one reason why I’m thinking they won’t show Tyrion and Sansa being married for hardly any time at all. Them pushing back their wedding to ep8 reduces the time the audience has to get uncomfortable with him desiring him. The public loves Tyrion. It’ll be interesting to see how non-readers react after Shae’s death.

  171. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    I’m still confused … How was Tyrion Unsympathetic? I thought he was a perfect Gent? Wouldn’t let Sansa suffer the ordeals that normally happen at a wedding etc.

  172. stephen
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    lavenderlullabies,

    the attack on the wall by mance was a pretty big part of jons story

  173. Adam
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    RW will be the last scene of Episode 10. Calling it now.

  174. Adam
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    This season is basically split into two. “Season 3″ will be the first half of ASOS. Thus, it’s not cutting any Tyrion time.

  175. Juan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    That their wedding is as late as Episode 8 means the series will go slower than expected this season, which is good news. There will be more time for good exposition (or sexposition). I still feel Season 2 was a bit rushed and needed more episodes to fit right.

    As for the Red Wedding, and Joffrey’s Death, it would be shocking if both were kept for Season 4. What other truly shocking big moment would there be in Season 3 then?

    Originally I had hoped for a season finale with Joffrey’s death and Tyrion being dragged away, but the Red Wedding would be just as good.

  176. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    There is only one in my part one book … and it’s been mentioned.

  177. KG
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    Queenofthorns,

    Ain’t that the truth.

  178. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    When I think of The Red Viper, the fist person that comes to mind is Naveen Andrews. I think that he would be perfect for the role. And as far as Tyrion and Sansa goe, I agree with what Queenofthornes said. Snasa has no reason to sus pect that Tyrion is any different than any other Lannister. I mean we know that he is, but most people in the series give him queer looks because he’s a Lannister. And a dwarf obviously lol. And I think that the show will explore Sansa’s mistrust of him. They already started when she’s been giving him that icy courtesy that she gives people to stay safe

  179. Juan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Kyle,

    I agree with having a big moment in episode 9 as to distract viewers of an even bigger happening for the season finale, but to invent something so big isn’t something I see plausible.
    I had originally hoped for the Red Wedding and Joffrey’s death happening back to back in the last two episodes.

  180. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    And Joff’s wedding won’t happen until season 4. There’s too much to fit in as far as that monstrous wedding, the trial, and Tyrion escaping and killing Shae and his father. Plus I’m sure that season 4 is going to end with us meeting Lady Stoneheart. The Red Wedding is a great place to cap it off next season.

  181. Ours is the Fury
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Given how late the ST wedding is in the season, I do think the PW will be season 4, now.

    Adam,

    I think perhaps you misunderstood my meaning. I don’t mean they’re cutting Tyrion’s screentime, only that we won’t be seeing Tyrion married to Sansa for long onscreen.

  182. Alan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel:
    Alan,

    How would he become human again if he dies though? I can understand the whole Ghost thing but not him becoming Ghost again. It’s an interesting theory. I think that the prologues in the books really tell a lot more then some might realize. The one in AFFC is just as important because when TWOW comes out it, will deal will events of the last two books because a lot ofthe events run simultaneously. Jaqen being at the Citadel with Sam is a major thing.

    The only thing I can think of is they store his body in the ice cells and it doesn’t degenerate. I am confident Martin is going to come up with a better solution than I could, though, because I’m not a huge fan of the seemingly near-constant resurrections.

    As for Sam in Oldtown, there’s not a storyline I’m more excited to read in Winds than that one. We know almost nothing — a prologue and one Sam chapter — and we get so much stuff — Marwyn, Maester Conspiracy, Alleas, the Glass Candles plus whatever Sam’s personal arc is.

  183. Alan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel:
    Ser Lemon Cakes,

    I would assume that in season 4 is when we should probably be meeting Night’s Watch members that we haven’t met yet, like Satin and Bowen Marsh. In addition to The Red Viper and Dornishmen in general.

    Donal Noye.

  184. Alan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    Maester Tcost:
    D&D could film the PW without having cast The Red Viper.They might omit him altogether and have Bron, or even someone totally unexpected such as Loras, fight the Mountain and lay him low — only to get killed himself instead.Someone else could fill the role that Bronn has is AFfC.

    They could also have him show up later. Killing the killer of Elia Martell is motive enough to defend Tyrion – he doesn’t even need to know him. Perhaps we get more Oberyn-Tywin interaction, which would have to be fun.

  185. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    Alan:

    As for Sam in Oldtown, there’s not a storyline I’m more excited to read in Winds than that one.We know almost nothing — a prologue and one Sam chapter — and we get so much stuff — Marwyn, Maester Conspiracy, Alleas, the Glass Candles plus whatever Sam’s personal arc is.

    With ya there!

  186. Tom
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    Alan,

    Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding was a small event. It would require only 10 minutes to show, not the whole episode.

    Also, does anyone know whether Jon returns to the Wall from the south or the north?

  187. Alan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    Queenofthorns,

    The issue of Tyrion’s likeability is one reason why I’m thinking they won’t show Tyrion and Sansa being married for hardly any time at all. Them pushing back their wedding to ep8 reduces the time the audience has to get uncomfortable with him desiring him. The public loves Tyrion. It’ll be interesting to see how non-readers react after Shae’s death.

    I don’t think the show is going to coddle Tyrion. I think they are going to dodge the difficult parts of the marriage because of legal and icky issues.

    But coddle? I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.

    Most adaptations — and GoT has shown signs of this — will accentuate the extremes. Both because they have less “time” for content than the source material (hence the lack of complexity/depth) and also because television more than books really focus on character change.

    A good example is Jaime’s killing of Alton Lannister. I’m fairly convinced part of the reason the actual killing was in there was to reiterate that Jaime is, at best, an amoral, selfish man. Which he is. But tossing Bran out the window was a long time ago, and he’s good looking and charming, and in television, he becomes so much more likeable.

    Which is all my way of saying, while Tyrion has been whitewashed a bit (and part of that is lack of a only-Stark-based POV in Season 1), I don’t think they are going to shy from what happens. There will be explanations, just like in the books, but some things need to happen.

  188. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Tom,

    South. The end of Part one he has just come across the tower that Bran and C0. are in .

  189. Alan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Tom:
    Alan,

    Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding was a small event. It would require only 10 minutes to show, not the whole episode.

    Also, does anyone know whether Jon returns to the Wall from the south or the north?

    I have no idea which of my 1,000 posts on this thread you are responding to.

    I don’t disagree, but I never meant to intimate that the wedding would take longer.

  190. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

    Did you know if you click on the name highlighted in Blue it takes you back to that quote? Found that out the other day …

  191. Zack
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    If you want to know which post he is responding to, all you need to do is click your name in his post. It will take you to the post in the thread he’s quoting. Notice how when you click the quote button next to the post, in the HTML in the reply box it lists the comment number.

  192. Matt
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    Damnit! I’m in Dubrovnik right now. Been keeping my eyes open for any GOT cast and crew but alas nothing yet!

    Will only be here for 1 more day so I’m sad that I will miss filming :(

  193. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    Haha hell yeah, I forgot about Donal Noye. That man is fucking awesome. And I’ll assume that they’ll save the battle at the wall for season 4. Introduce Mag the Mighty, Wun Wun and Tormund Giantsbane. And I’ve talked on here before regarding my theory that Jaqen is Rhaegar Targaryen, still alive. That’s why he’s at the Citadel I think. To get those old Valyrian scrolls that probably have info on Azor Ahai. Some people disagree with that theory I have but I think that a lot points to it.

  194. Alan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Zack:
    Alan,

    If you want to know which post he is responding to, all you need to do is click your name in his post. It will take you to the post in the thread he’s quoting. Notice how when you click the quote button next to the post, in the HTML in the reply box it lists the comment number.

    I did not know that! Thanks! (and to Yvyb as well!) I learn something new every day.

  195. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    I one of life’s fiddlers … took me a couple of tries to work out spoilers … but got there in the end :)

  196. darquemode
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    Currer Bell,

    I was watching Strike Bck and I do like Jimi, but not sure he is who I personaly see as RV. I have always seen Oded Fehr with his viper-ike eyes. He is tall, lean and graceful and of course has the widow’s peak!! XD

    The other two actors I really like in the role are Amr Waked and Olivier Martinez. I thnk Waked would bring something interesting to the role and Martnez just looks like I pictured the Red Viper.

  197. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    The 13 year old argument does not fly seeing as there were no teenagers in a medieval setting. It’s the same as a 21 year old marrying today. Tyrion is one of the few to realise that she is still a child. He spares her the bedding, and refuses to sleep with her unless she wants to. She on the other hand treats him with utter contempt and humiliates him in front of everyone. And Tyrion realises why this is, in chapter 53 of ASOS he asks Tywin when he expects she will be more ferile, before or after she heard the Lannisters murdered her family.

  198. darquemode
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    Given how late the ST wedding is in the season, I do think the PW will be season 4, now.

    I am excited to read you write that!! XD

    I initially thought of King’s Landing revolving around Sansa and her various possible marriages and/or escape … it all ending with her and Tyrion getting married. I always pictured Robb and the Tullys riding off for the RW as the ending of that arc… I gave up on that since so many thought the RW was a lock for Season 3 and most thought the PW would be in Season 3 too.

    I am estatic to think there is a small chance it may be how it plays out since it will allow the story to actually breath for the first time. There is so much going on in other parts of Westeros and Essos I think there is more than enough for 10 episodes.

    My gut tells me the RW will be the finale still, but my heart wants it in Season 4. I will be happy if at least the PW does not make it into Season 3 though.

  199. tysnow
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    Off topic, but I am hearing Lena’s performance as Ma’ma in Dredd is up there with the great Oscar gallery of villainy.

  200. sunspear
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    Adam:
    RW will be the last scene of Episode 10. Calling it now.

    I certainly hope not. It may be bold, but doing that is really going to tick off the non-reader fans. Plus, cutting the book that early is going to require a lot of new filler to chew up all ten episodes.

  201. sjwenings
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    If the PW does not close the KL storyline for s3, then what will? Any ideas?

  202. loco73
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    As a side note, I was watching a clip for the ” South Park” season premiere, and what do my little beady eyes see and my deformed ears hear, it was a history lesson by Mr. Garisson that went something like this: “Children,the king of Westeros was Robert Baratheon…”. God, gotta love that crazy bastard of a teacher! If any one could teach Westerosi/ASOIF history as fact, it would be Mr.Garisson! I cannot wait for the new South Park season to start!

  203. Yellow Dog
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    tek: I think they should end season 3 at the RW, but before anything actually happens. Maybe the actual ceremony takes place, and they fade out during the feast. Make non-readers think its a happy ending place. Then, first thing in Season 4. BAM!! and finish off that first episode with the PW

    Wow. Don’t know if D&D have the balls for it, but that would be perfect.

  204. Valyrian
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Ren Snow: And don’t forget that one part of the battle is the raid coming from the south, in which Ygritte and the Magnar of Thenn die, and then the Big Fucking Battle at the Wall, in which Stannis appears to save the day

    mags giantsbabe,

    keep in mind that Jon actually gets injured in the books. His leg gets an arrow wound while trying to flee the Wildlings and return to Castle Black

    And the one that shoots the arrow at Jon is none other than Ygritte! LOL irony

  205. Yellow Dog
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Anybody else having trouble juggling multiple friends/relatives at different stages of potential spoilerization?

    Some just finished watching season one and are reading book two. Others have watched through season 2 but are still reading book one. Or is it the other way around? I can’t even exchange emails with these people until they specify their show/book progress first!

  206. Yellow Dog
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    Watson: Oh great, now we get to have this conversation again. Scheduling weddings is such a hassle.

    Thanks for the belly laugh!

  207. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    Why do so many people think that the RW is at the end of ASOS? It’s actually closer to the middle so if book 3 is being split between two seasons, ending season 3 with it makes the most sense.

  208. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel,

    It’s not at the end of part one tho … if they are going for and exact split… Cat’s brother just agrees to do it …

  209. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    And Danny takes her army … which IMO will be the finale

  210. Valyrian
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    To me episode 9 is the perfect spot for the RW. Fans will be expecting another outstanding episode 9 after Baelor and Blackwater. Episode 10 will show the aftermath of the RW. Arya escaping with the Hound, possibly meeting up at the inn. Tywin telling Tyrion “explain to me how it is more honorable killing thousands of men in battle than dozens at dinner”. Joffrey being a Dbag and rubbing Rob’s death in Sansa’s face, Lady Stoneheart, etc

  211. Valyrian
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    YvyB: And Danny takes her army … which IMO will be the finale

      

    No this is not the case. In the casting video for Daario, he clearly mentions Dany’s unsullied army meaning that she will get her army much earlier than episode 10.

  212. Quowala
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    Okay I’m now thinking TS wedding for ep 8. RW and Arya’s journey there with the hound for ep 9. Then The taking of Astapor and Jon defending Castle Black from the wildlings attacking from the south which results in the death of Ygritte. The series could end with Sansa being dragged off to marry Joffrey. Then series 4 opens with the PW…

  213. Yellow Dog
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Currer Bell: Sansa had grown up a little bit and seen beyond the physical, gone beyond the courtly love nonsense, Tyrion might have made an excellent husband for her. Remember the RW had not happened yet, so all was not hopelessly lost although one admits that Ned’s death was a major-almost insurmountable-impedement, but Tyrion was innocent there. Intelligent, loyal, witty, kind and honorable (he refused to consummate his marriage with an unwilling partner), Tyrion would have been a effective protector for Sansa (no Littlefinger involvement). Sansa would have given Tyrion a power base in the North which might have allowed him to deal more effectively with his appalling family. Having finished off Joffery and Twyin, pragmatic Tyrion would have been perfect Hand for Stannis softening the latter’s rigid inflexibility. Tyrion could have given Sansa the happy marrage she imagined with Willas Tyrell.

    Thank you! I finally quit Westeros forum because I got sick and tired of trying to explain this to Tyrion-hating Sansa-defenders.

    But Sansa and Tyrion finding happiness either together or with others does not have any place in GRRM’s ASOIAF.

    It’s the only thing that might tempt me into fanfic, though ….

  214. Valyrian
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Quowala: Okay I’m now thinking TS wedding for ep 8. RW and Arya’s journey there with the hound for ep 9. Then The taking of Astapor and Jon defending Castle Black from the wildlings attacking from the south which results in the death of Ygritte. The series could end with Sansa being dragged off to marry Joffrey. Then series 4 opens with the PW…

    Taking of Astopor will be much eariler than that IMO because of Daario’s casting video in which he mentions the unsullied army of Dany’s

  215. Duff Man
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian:
    To me episode 9 is the perfect spot for the RW. Fans will be expecting another outstanding episode 9 after Baelor and Blackwater. Episode 10 will show the aftermath of the RW. Arya escaping with the Hound, possibly meeting up at the inn. Tywin telling Tyrion “explain to me how it is more honorable killing thousands of men in battle than dozens at dinner”. Joffrey being a Dbag and rubbing Rob’s death in Sansa’s face, Lady Stoneheart, etc

    Uhhh they better not be showingStoneheart in episode 10, that would be a major copout. And totally take away alot of the oomf from RW if they bring Cat back the very next week. I don’t want to see Stonheart until the end of Season 4 or whenever they wrap up Storms story in season 4. I am surprised that San/Tyr wedding isn’t until Episode 8, I would’ve thought that would come somewhere in the 3-5 range. I’m just hoping they still put the RW in season 3, whether it’s episode 9 or 10. I would love to see them put it in episode 10, end the season with an image of Grey Wind’s head on Rob’s body with shouts of “the king in the north coming from the Frey’s” Imagine how pissed people would be at that!!!

  216. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    YvyB,

    What do you mean by part one? the RW is just after the first half of ASOS.

  217. Yellow Dog
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    MetalgoddessAMB: My theory: It wasn’t Jon’s body that was stabbed. Jon’s already marching south by the time that person was stabbed. It was somebody glamoured to make everyone believe it was Jon. The person who was stabbed will die, but It wasn’t Jon.

    Hmmm. I like it.

  218. Valyrian
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone have any good theory’s on how Talisa’s character will be used? U think she will be killed off in the RW? I don’t see any other purpose for her unless she turns out to be Jeyne

  219. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel,

    I have two copies of book three , it’s split in Europe already. So I’m saying if they go by the actual split that I presume GRRM agreed to … it happens in book two :)

  220. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Duff Man,

    I agree, Lady Stoneheart shouldn’t be showing up until the end of season 4. Viewers need time to let the RW simmer before they pull start up with that. Pacing is important when it comes telling a story. Viewers should have time to mourn her first.

  221. the other guy
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian:
    To me episode 9 is the perfect spot for the RW. Fans will be expecting another outstanding episode 9 after Baelor and Blackwater. Episode 10 will show the aftermath of the RW. Arya escaping with the Hound, possibly meeting up at the inn. Tywin telling Tyrion “explain to me how it is more honorable killing thousands of men in battle than dozens at dinner”. Joffrey being a Dbag and rubbing Rob’s death in Sansa’s face, Lady Stoneheart, etc

    100% agree !

    I just can’t see RW happen in s4… S3 will contain a lot of build-up to this massive, game-changing event (robb naming his heir, karstark betrayal, etc..). It has to happen in ep 9 (I hope) or 10.
    Btw, didn’t D&D more or less confirmed in an interview that S3 will contain this huge scene they can’t wait to film ?
    Also, I think the reveal of Uncat would make an outstanding last image, “WTF” moment to close the season.
    Well, guess we’ll have to wait the first signs of David Bradley somewhere on set to know if RW is this season or not.

  222. Alan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    YvyB:
    Maegor The Cruel,

    I have two copies of book three , it’s split in Europe already. So I’m saying if they go by the actual split that I presume GRRM agreed to … it happens in book two :)

    They aren’t splitting it exactly. The original comment is that it is about half of ASOS. And pretty much every indication is that its more like “It will be spread over two seasons.”

    Also, I don’t think Martin gets too much say in the split — it’s primarily a physical manufacturing issue/distribution issue. There are simply limits on book size.

  223. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    YvyB,

    Fuck, I forgot that some of these books are split into two in the UK hahaha. If ASOS is split right in the middle over there, then the RW will happen in the beginning of part two I guess.

  224. Yellow Dog
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Kyle,

    Yes, you are sadistic, but not as sadistic as GRRM. Remains to be seen how sadistic D&D are, but we should find out next spring.

  225. Javi Marcos
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    I’d bet two cents to:

    Golden Wedding: Episode 8
    Red Wedding: Episode 9 or maybe 8
    Purple Wedding: Episode 10, for sure

  226. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    I agree , in as much as I said IF… but to my mind , if you were going to buy one book , read it , then by the next… surely the same principles apply to whether or not the reader would be likely to want to buy the second … Am I making sense ? The arguments as to where certain events happen … still apply to the book reader as the viewer… So to me the split of the books will be the best place as the show ?

  227. Valyrian
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    Something else I noticed is that Edric Storm hasn’t been cast. If thats the case then what will Stannis/Davos/Mel do all season?

  228. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    I think you guys just like cake :p

  229. darquemode
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian,

    Some have thought she may be a Sand Snake… Nymeria from the books. She fits the description (long dark hair pulled back in a braid, dark eyes, pale skin etc) and is from Volantis with a noble parentage…. Also has skill with blades as we saw as she amputated soldiers! XD

    I can definitely see the similarities in appearance and back story, but I do not see exactly why D&D would have switched it up like that.

  230. Quowala
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian,

    Ahhh yeah good point. I guess my thinking was that for the HBO series so far they have reshuffled Dany’s story a little bit. (Because in ACOK the house of the undying happens before the battle of blackwater). And also the episode 10′s have been Dany-centric so far – Her smothering Drogo and birthing her dragons in series 1 and house of the undying in season 2. The more I fret over what happens in what episode, the more I realise – why I am fretting over this!??! The most important thing is that its done well and I’m sure it will be.

  231. Valyrian
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    darquemode: Some have thought she may be a Sand Snake… Nymeria from the books. She fits the description (long dark hair oulled back in a braid, dark eyes, pale skin etc) and is from Volantis with a noble parentage…. Also has skill with blades as we saw as she amputated soldiers! XD

    I can definitely see the similaritiesin appearance and back story, but I do not see why D&D would have switched it up like that.

    Interesting! I think shes a totally new character but I like the Sand Snake theory

  232. darquemode
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    YvyB,

    I thnk Dany will end up in Yunkai not Astapor.

  233. queenofthorns
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror: The 13 year old argument does not fly seeing as there were no teenagers in a medieval setting. It’s the same as a 21 year old marrying today.

    This is a myth. The average age of marriage was over 20 for all classes of people, and though teen marriages occurred, it was for purely political reasons and most considered it unseemly to consummate until the child was an adult. In other words if Westeros is like Earth, Tyrion’s opinion is the majority view.

    Tyrion is one of the few to realise that she is still a child. He spares her the bedding, and refuses to sleep with her unless she wants to.

    Not raping an unwilling minor => basic standard of human decency. Any reasonably moral person probably wouldn’t be physically capable of going through with this. Good on Tyrion but this is not a very convincing argument for him being some kind of hero. He could have refused the marriage, or tried to help her escape. Why’d he go through with it? He tries to tell himself that it’s because he’d be better to her than whoever Tywin picked next, but he could have tried to help her escape. I can only assume that he wanted her claim.

    She on the other hand treats him with utter contempt and humiliates him in front of everyone.

    This is her most badass moment in book three. The wolf does not kneel to the lion, even when surrounded by a whole pack of them. Also Tyrion assumes the reason she does this is because he’s a dwarf blah blah blah when it’s really because she’s been abused constantly for the last year or so, and this is literally the only mode of protest left available to her. Also please tell me, where does she treat him “with utter contempt”? She is carefully, coolly civil to him at all times, other than at their farce of a wedding where she was standing up to ALL those who took away everything from her. It was nothing personal.

    And Tyrion realises why this is, in chapter 53 of ASOS he asks Tywin when he expects she will be more ferile, before or after she heard the Lannisters murdered her family.


    Yeah he says this, but he also complains to himself and outloud numerous times that if only he wasn’t a dwarf, surely she’d love and trust him. It’s his usual pattern – he projects his self-hatred onto others.

  234. Valyrian
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Quowala: Taking of Astopor will be much eariler than that IMO because of Daario’s casting video in which he mentions the unsullied army of Dany’s

      

    Episode 10 might still be Dany-centric if they show her taking another slave city like Yunkai or Mereen ;]

  235. Quowala
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    I was thinking that they could make some changes from the book for the better in series 3. Mainly stuff to do with Robb. It would be good to explore his relationship with Talisa more (which they have definitely been setting it up to do so.) This would add to the whole Shakespearian theme in book 3 of forbidden love. Very harshly punished forbidden love
    Also I think it would be cool if we saw Robb in action in battle. In the books Robb isnt a POV character and we only hear from him from Cat’s POV and she’s never there for the battles. But the HBO series has made Robb more of a POV character so it would be good to see him riding into battle with Grey Wind and cracking some Lannister skulls.

  236. queenofthorns
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian,

    This is a good question. I wonder if they will have Melisandre suggesting that Shireen be sacrificed for her King’s blood instead?? Though, I can’t imagine Stannis even considering it. It would be a pretty drastic (and unwelcome) shift in his character… :/

  237. FlayedManofBK
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    Yellow Dog,

    eh, if we saw the assassination atempt through Melisandre’s POV this may work, but since it’s a Jon POV, this doesn’t really work for me. Also the Prologue with Varymir hints that Jon may have warged into Ghost to live a second life.

  238. Handmaiden of Dany
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    MetalgoddessAMB,

    That is the most awesome shizniz I have heard! It is so clear now, you just gave me goose bumps. It was completely foreshadowed that that would happen and I missed it!

  239. Tom O' Sevens
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    queenofthorns:
    Valyrian,

    This is a good question.I wonder if they will have Melisandre suggesting that Shireen be sacrificed for her King’s blood instead?? Though, I can’t imagine Stannis even considering it.It would be a pretty drastic (and unwelcome) shift in his character…:/

    this might very well be the direction in which they go :/. I never thought of that possibility before

  240. Morgan King
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    You guys are completely missing the point that the Red Wedding is an out-of-nowhere surprise attack. D&D get the books too well, thematically, to drop the ball on that shock by putting it as the major climactic moment of Season 3 in the most predictable position, especially considering how many epic climaxes the book already has at the halfway point. Opening Season 4 with the RW and closing it with the PW and Tywin’s death makes all sorts of narrative sense. Delayed gratification is good for you.

  241. Morgan King
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    MetalgoddessAMB,

    I don’t see how that’s possible, the chapter was from Jon’s perspective.

  242. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    My family tree goes back to the 1500′s I can positively affirm the average age was about 16 years for marriage .. and a female was deemed a woman grown when she flowered. As Sansa had.Lets not forget it is only two generations since we left school at 14 and went out to work . Before that , Mills and Mines for children turn of the century .

    The question was … how was Tyrion unsympathetic? Which still hasn’t been answered…..

  243. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Tom O’ Sevens,

    Stannis would never entertain the idea of sacrificing his daughter. She’s his heir and if anything happens to him, he wants her to sit the Iron Throne.

  244. darquemode
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Morgan King,

    That was my original thinking too.
    Imagine the press and fan reaction if the season opens with that! XD

    I think it has far more impact as the shocking season opener than as a finale, and I just cannot see D&D deadening the effect of either the RW or PW by putting them in back-to-back episodes. The story, and fans, need time to grieve and breath between events.

  245. Macha
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    YvyB: My family tree goes back to the 1500′s I can positively affirm the average age was about 16 years for marriage .. and a female was deemed a woman grown when she flowered. As Sansa had.

    This. Same thing here, and I imagine almost everywhere else in Europe. I can hardly see that as a myth, and medieval sources (can’t quote them right now but I can find them if truly necessary) testify the same thing. I would like to hear why is this considered a myth and not a reality, I truly would. Not being sarcastic here, I’m really curious.

  246. darquemode
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    YvyB,

    I completely agree. He was nothing but sympathetic in my mind.

    Even if the average age for marriage was say 16 to 18, no one can dispute that tweenage and early teenage marriages often happened, especially for royalty . It may be considered bad form to take advantage of a young bride, but since when have royalty been known for only doing good things? I would wager more young brides were bedded quickly than left untouched. I cannot imagine most young men who were raised to think everything in the kingdom blonged to them would wait for years….

  247. pntrlqst
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    I refuse to believe Michelle MacLaren was brought in to direct episode eight for the “exciting” Tyrion/Sansa wedding. If you know her work, you should be shocked to find out she won’t be directing the most intense scene of this series. My bet is either this is false info or both weddings are in the same episode.

  248. Javi Marcos
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    I’d really disappointed if we don’t see
    PW this season.
    Season 3
    3 Weddings,
    3 leeches burnt,
    3 kings killed
    It’s simply too perfect

    No problems at all, without PW KL would be too boring and Oberyn isn’t necessary. And Jaime could meet him outside the walls and visit Tyrion in the cells.

    You have tons of things to do in Season 4, and if you want more, add a bit (just one-two chapters per character) of AFFC/ADWD

  249. sunspear
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel,

    That would have been my thinking too. But with no Edric Storm, Shireen is the only logical choice, and that plot arc is too esential for D&D to change.

  250. Valyrian
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Morgan King:
    You guys are completely missing the point that the Red Wedding is an out-of-nowhere surprise attack. D&D get the books too well, thematically, to drop the ball on that shock by putting it as the major climactic moment of Season 3 in the most predictable position, especially considering how many epic climaxes the book already has at the halfway point. Opening Season 4 with the RW and closing it with the PW and Tywin’s death makes all sorts of narrative sense. Delayed gratification is good for you.

    Out of nowhere surprise? Roose Bolton freeing Jaime Lannister, kind of gave it away. From then on I expected the worse..

  251. Morgan King
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian,

    Ack – re-spoiler tag that! I think most people knew something was up, but the timing and specifics of it are quite the blindside, at least among the general response to it.

  252. sunspear
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian,

    It wasn’t that so much as Stannis’s three leeches after the first one came true. Plus Grey Wind freaking out at the Frey’s. And there was Patchface’s prophecy on reread.

  253. Rygar
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    I bedded when I was 13.

  254. Cary Storm
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    I bedded when I was 13.

    You best not claim it was with me.

  255. Cary Storm
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Javi Marcos:
    I’d really disappointed if we don’t see
    PW this season.
    Season 3
    3Weddings,
    3 leeches burnt,
    3 kings killed
    It’s simply too perfect

    No problems at all, without PW KL would be too boring and Oberyn isn’t necessary. And Jaime could meet him outside the walls and visit Tyrion in the cells.


    You have tons of things to do in Season 4, and if you want more, add a bit (just one-two chapters per character) of AFFC/ADWD

    I agree with you that these things can be done cleanly in one season. Just not sure how they’re going to accomplish it with Sansa and Tyrion’s wedding in episode 8; unless that is a much smaller and shorter affair than we expect. I sincerely think the RW is going to start at the top of an episode and finish at the end.

  256. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    queenofthorns: This is a myth.The average age of marriage was over 20 for all classes of people, and though teen marriages occurred, it was for purely political reasons and most considered it unseemly to consummate until the child was an adult.In other words if Westeros is like Earth, Tyrion’s opinion is the majority view.

    Not raping an unwilling minor => basic standard of human decency.Any reasonably moral person probably wouldn’t be physically capable of going through with this.Good on Tyrion but this is not a very convincing argument for him being some kind of hero.He could have refused the marriage, or tried to help her escape.Why’d he go through with it?He tries to tell himself that it’s because he’d be better to her than whoever Tywin picked next, but he could have tried to help her escape.I can only assume that he wanted her claim.

    This is her most badass moment in book three. The wolf does not kneel to the lion, even when surrounded by a whole pack of them.Also Tyrion assumes the reason she does this is becausehe’s a dwarf blah blah blah when it’s really because she’s been abused constantly for the last year or so, and this is literally the only mode of protest left available to her.Also please tell me, where does she treat him “with utter contempt”?She is carefully, coolly civil to him at all times, other than at their farce of a wedding where she was standing up to ALL those who took away everything from her.It was nothing personal.


    Yeah he says this, but he also complains to himself and outloud numerous times that if only he wasn’t a dwarf, surely she’d love and trust him.It’s his usual pattern – he projects his self-hatred onto others.

    Actually history shows that women were considered women upon their flowering, you saying that it’s a myth is laughable.
    Secondly this marriage was for no other reason than politics. Tyrion did not have any choice in the matter if he ever wanted any power. Tywin made it very clear that Tyrion would never inherit Casterly Rock, this was the only option Tyrion had to make a name for himself and “do his part for the honour of his house.” So off course he was after her claim, that was the only reason why he would go through with it. He also realised this was the only chance he would have for a decent political marriage because he is a dwarf!
    Why didn’t he help her escape? Because that would mean more war against his family, Sansa would serve as a rallying point, which is about to happen considering her last chapter in AFFC and it will mean more war.
    You forget Tyrion saved her from Joff’s cruelty, I dare say if it was Loras Tyrrel was a Lannister, but had saved her and she was made to marry him, it would not have been as horrible for her. Much of Sansa’s pov of the world is based on the physical. you can see the contempt she treats him with in all her POV chapters.
    And come on this is Westeros how many decent reasonably moral people are there? In Medieval settings it was not a huge moral issue for a man to rape a woman sacking a city. Ergo most men would have done something like that somewhere in their live. I daresay 99percent of the men would have claimed their legal right. If this was Medieval Europe her husband could go as far as to say it was his divine right to take her maidenhead.
    Also without them consummating the marriage it can easily be annulled, any husband would realise that and Tywin points it out to Tyrion. Sansa must realise this as well. So kudus for Tyrion for not being able to do it, the only other persons I could think of who would not do this is Ned and Robb.

  257. Tom O' Sevens
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    Season 4 climax needs to have Tyrion vs Tywin. That’s why I doubt we see the PW in season 3. Are we really going to have Tyrion imprisonned for 7-8 episodes of season 4? I think not. That’s why I say the PW won’t be in season 3. It will be around midway through season 4 and then u have Tyrion improssned for 3-4 episodes before the trial by combat. Same amount of time he was stuck at the Eyrie

  258. Rygar
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    To avoid any confusion, it was not with Cary. I do not sleep with bastards.

  259. Cary Storm
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Tom O’ Sevens:
    Season 4 climax needs to have Tyrion vs Tywin.

    No, it doesn’t. In the least. I can think of several early places in ADWD that Tyrion’s arc comes to a climax. Or they might release Peter Dinklage the 2nd half of the season entirely. It will be his fourth season, he is entitled to a break.

  260. Cary Storm
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    To avoid any confusion, it was not with Cary.I do not sleep with bastards.

    Oh, right uppity whore you are, you only bed with Lords, I take it? Littlefinger has a bed for you, I’m sure.

  261. Rygar
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    Even Littlefinger can’t afford my punani.

  262. Cary Storm
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Cary Storm,
    Even Littlefinger can’t afford my punani.

    That’s like a baked Italian sandwich, right?

  263. Rygar
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    A baked Italian sandwich is laughable.

    Cary Storm: That’s like a baked Italian sandwich, right?

  264. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm: That’s like a baked Italian sandwich, right?

    Ha ha ha Panini :)

  265. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Happy Name Day George R.R. Martin, by The Old Gods and the new.

  266. The mighty hodor
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    So is asos being cut into two seasons?

  267. tysnow
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Happy Name Day GRRM, may the real R’hllor bless you in the coming year and keep the Stranger away for many decades to come (so you can finish the remaining 2 ….. I mean 3 books)

    Whose kidding who, we all know that 2 books would make the story feel rushed.

  268. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    The mighty hodor:
    So is asos being cut into two seasons?

    Yes

  269. DB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    Yes a 13 year old was unsympathetic to a fully grown man who deserves sympathy because he had every right to rape her but he didn’t. Also he did place his hand on her breast if you wanna read that scene for yourself. Think before you type.

  270. Dave Brownell
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    it’s the big-man’s birthday today, and u don’t even want to make an article thanking him for this amazing series, and wishing him the best birthday wishes, like that now he has more time, with which to use on the new books!!

    Now Playing: Perdition For All – Dew-Scented

  271. Juan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    I can’t see the RW, or PW happening at the early stages of a season. They are too big cliffhangers. The climax for each season until now has been episode 9 (Ned, and Blackwater), so I think that the optimum arrengement would be T+S in Ep.8 – as confirmed – RW in ep 9, and PW in Ep 10. After Ep9, non readers would think that nothing can top that, and ep9 will, again, arrange things for the next season. Then we can slam the PW in their faces. Insert the first Battle at the Wall and some Dany and it would make a terrific ending.

    As for Season 4, the trial could last for the first half of the season, Tyrion killing Tywin in ep 5 or 6, and then he arrives in Pentos the last ep of S4 and announces his intentions of joining Dany.

    On another unrelated topic: Does anyone think that in order to allow some more time for GRRM to finish ahead of the series, some kind of prequel telling the War of the Usurper (in the form of a season, a miniseries or even a movie) could be done?

  272. Jaison Biagini
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    rw should be the very end of season 3.it should end on catilain.

  273. HugeFloppyGut
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    This is stupid, but its been a while sense i read the books..what was the PW again?

  274. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    HugeFloppyGut:
    This is stupid, but its been a while sense i read the books..what was the PW again?

    Purple wedding … owing to the purple Amythists in Sansa’s hairnet and the colour of Joffs face ….

  275. HugeFloppyGut
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    YvyB: Purple wedding … owing to the purple Amythists in Sansa’s hairnet and the colour of Joffs face ….

    Ahh yes..so yea i can see them doing RW in episode 9 and PW in Episode 10 this season .

  276. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    DB,

    Sympathy because he was more like her than she would ever realise. In care you forgot Joffrey placed his hand on her breast just a couple of minutes earlier. At that point Tyrion still wanted to consummate the marriage. The mere fact that Tyrion told her he’d be willing to wait no matter how long that took is worth a lot. The fact that Tyrion treated her with more respect than any other Lannister should have told her something.
    Oh I’ve chosen my words carefully Persian, perhaps you should have done the same!

  277. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    The RW and PW can never happen in the first 3 or 4 episodes of a season. Those episodes are sent out as screeners. Critics would witness the events before they actually aired and spoilers would leak out to non-book readers just looking for a review of the upcoming season. I think people need to stop trying to map out how they will cover the books. D&D have said that they are no longer trying to adapt the individual books. They are adapting the series and will move events around to suit the show. They will also add plenty of new scenes. So it is nearly impossible to predict what they will do with seasons 3 and 4. This excites me.

  278. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    YvyB,

    You forgot the colour of Tyrion’s kraken.

  279. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    YvyB,

    You forgot the colour of Tyrion’s kraken.

    Ha ha ha You are correct!

  280. sallyrover
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    What I am most excited about in the coming season is that “Breaking Bad’ producer and director Michelle McLaren is directing 2 key episodes of “Game of Thrones” this season, and she is BB’s go-to gal when it comes to suspenseful murdering sequences. Since she has the 8th and 9th episodes outof 10, and the HBO style is to have the bloodbath usually come in the pentultimate episodes (last year this was the “Blackwater” episode), we are sure in for some crazy action!

  281. sunspear
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    If they don’t do the PW at the end of this season, they pretty much have to do it in the first 2 or 3 episodes of season 4. There simply isn’t enough material between the two major events to last until episode 5 with putting in a lot of filler.

  282. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I agree with you. It’s pretty exciting as a book reader, to not always know what the show is going to do. There might be a change here or there that I disagree with, but I think that the show is on point for the most part. But some people still bitch because they have books mapped out in their heads and the show throws them curve balls that they don’t like. Like Robb’s relationship with Talisa is actually one of the improvements the show made. It’s hard enough that Robb isn’t a POV character in the book but when this whole relationship blossoms with Jeyne Westerling, we never see it happen. We become just as surprised as Cat does when she finds out that her son got married. On the show, because we see his relationship develop on screen, we become more emotionally invested.

  283. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    sunspear,

    Well, if it must be in episode 2 or 3 then I hope they only send out 1 or 2 episodes for the critics to screen.

  284. mead
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    lavenderlullabies,

    No, Ygritte wouldn’t have died by then. Jon returns to the Wall to warn them of the coming invasion and that might be the end of the season for him. And then they have to prepare for the battle. Then we’d have the battle episode, I imagine, during which Ygritte would die, so we’d have her well into the fourth season. And then the Night’s Watch commander election storyline, so Jon would have some stuff to do.


    I’m sure i heard Rose Leslie say her contract was only seasons 2 and 3. Infact i’m positive.

  285. Silverjaime
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    They’re certainly filming everything together – I was lucky enough to be on set briefly and drove past Liam Cunningham and Joe Dempsie – two different scenes. And another was also being filmed at the same time and place! That was Monday 16th.

  286. pntrlqst
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    sallyrover,

    She’s directing 7 and 8. David Nutter is 9 and 10.

  287. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel,

    I don’t think it was the Talisa thing that bothered the readers, it was the reasons why he did it that did. I like Talisa more than Jeyne, but the reasons why Robb broke his word and married her…not so much.

  288. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    I’m sorry but I’m not following. The reasons were a little different but essentially the same. He was young and made a mistake and married for love. I don’t really see that, of all the changes to be upset over, people would have a major issue with that one. If anything, I could understand people getting upset about changing her name and character. I mean it doesn’t seam like Talisa’s family is going to play the same role in the upcoming events that Jeyne’s family did.

  289. Lin Beifunk
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    Juan:
    On another unrelated topic: Does anyone think that in order to allow some more time for GRRM to finish ahead of the series, some kind of prequel telling the War of the Usurper (in the form of a season, a miniseries or even a movie) could be done?

    Fortunately — or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it — D&D know how the whole shebang ends, so we’ll be getting an ending regardless of the status of the books. I’d like a Dunk and Egg miniseries for sure, though, or the one you suggested — there’s some details we need that we’d only get through the series proper by someone sitting down and explaining things for 15 minutes straight. (D&D, or someone else higher up, don’t approve of flashbacks.)

    But back to D&D knowing the ending: this is a HUGE question in my mind I’m surprised no one has considered. Let’s get ourselves into a pessimistic universe where George doesn’t finish the last book until the show is done — how in the world are D&D going to avoid spoiling us of the entire series?

    I mean, we’ll go into reading the last book (if it exists one day) knowing that Arya becomes the Queen of Wolves or Dany discovers her dragons have nuclear powers and Tyrion’s an alien from GRRM’s Thousand Worlds mythos and the Freys have been doing a Hunger Games for the last few months to see who gets to inherit Walder’s chair. It seems like an interesting decision, to say the least.

    (Note: none of those last things were spoilers. At least, I hope not. Oh god.)

  290. BlackBloc
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    I think people forget that they left a bunch of stuff on the cutting floor from ACoK that is probably going to make it into this season in the early episodes. Like Season 2 they’ll need a few EPs to introduce characters (the Reeds, Ramsay Snow, the Bloody Mummers, the Brotherhood Without Banners, Mance’s court, all of which are cast) and I think that will lead to some moments from ACoK being put into Season 3 (the whole story with Lady Hornwood for instance, and for sure a bunch of torture for Theon/Reek, and they will also likely go deeper into Ned/Lyanna/Rhaegar backstory via the Reeds, putting in some exposition that was cut from the first two books). In King’s Landing I expect a lot of time spent on characterization for the Tyrells, probably these will be entirely new scenes.

  291. YvyB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    BlackBloc:
    I think people forget that they left a bunch of stuff on the cutting floor from ACoK that is probably going to make it into this season in the early episodes. Like Season 2 they’ll need a few EPs to introduce characters (the Reeds, Ramsay Snow, the Bloody Mummers, the Brotherhood Without Banners, Mance’s court, all of which are cast) and I think that will lead to some moments from ACoK being put into Season 3 (the whole story with Lady Hornwood for instance, and for sure a bunch of torture for Theon/Reek, and they will also likely go deeper into Ned/Lyanna/Rhaegar backstory via the Reeds, putting in some exposition that was cut from the first two books). In King’s Landing I expect a lot of time spent on characterization for the Tyrells, probably these will be entirely new scenes.

    I like your thinking …

  292. Morgan King
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I don’t get why you’re so insistent that the reviewers not see the episode beforehand – it’s not like it’s a big secret – the book’s been out for 12 years. You keep going back to that reasoning, but that just makes no sense to me.

  293. Winter Is Coming
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    BlackBloc:
    I think people forget that they left a bunch of stuff on the cutting floor from ACoK that is probably going to make it into this season in the early episodes. Like Season 2 they’ll need a few EPs to introduce characters (the Reeds, Ramsay Snow, the Bloody Mummers, the Brotherhood Without Banners, Mance’s court, all of which are cast) and I think that will lead to some moments from ACoK being put into Season 3 (the whole story with Lady Hornwood for instance, and for sure a bunch of torture for Theon/Reek, and they will also likely go deeper into Ned/Lyanna/Rhaegar backstory via the Reeds, putting in some exposition that was cut from the first two books). In King’s Landing I expect a lot of time spent on characterization for the Tyrells, probably these will be entirely new scenes.

    Bingo.

  294. sunspear
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    BlackBloc,

    True, but half of those examples were only in SOS to begin with. Plus, they’ve already cleared out quite a bit of the beginning of SOS in the last season (the prologue, the beginning of Jaime’s escape).

  295. Alan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel:
    Aegon the Conqueror,

    I’m sorry but I’m not following. The reasons were a little different but essentially the same. He was young and made a mistake and married for love. I don’t really see that, of all the changes to be upset over, people would have a major issue with that one. If anything, I could understand people getting upset about changing her name and character. I mean it doesn’t seam like Talisa’s family is going to play the same role in the upcoming events that Jeyne’s family did.

    The complaints about Talisa fall into two basic camps, from what I can tell:

    1) Talisa’s story: hot battlefield nurse/enlightened woman in medieval kind of time striking the young king’s fancy seems very schlocky romantic, and not really in the same tone as ASOIF at all. It’s not so much that it isn’t Jeyne Westerling or exactly like the book; rather it is that this love story is so generic and/or unbelievable that it really annoys/clashes with the rest of the story.

    2) Robb’s motivation changing alters his character: Robb, in a bad moment, slipped up in sleeping with Jeyne, but he did the really honorable thing to make her an honest woman. In other words, it was a Ned-like mistake. Whereas in the show, he selfishly chooses his own happiness repeatedly over his responsibilities, which is not so noble a flaw.

    My opinion of the Talisa storyline branches across both:

    1) I think the battlefield nurse premise is clunky as heck. It feels forced everytime they meet. The love story would have been better had it been more organic.

    2) I don’t mind the change to Jeyne/Talisa’s story. I love the Volantene story just for the world-building and it gives Robb a rather mature reason to be attracted to someone. I think the circumstances and story made a believable reason for Robb to err.

    3) I don’t mind changes in motivation all the time. I think people would be more approving of true love as a motive, though, if they had executed the romance to feel at all like true love.

    Honestly, much like Dany’s storyline, the problem wasn’t in changing, it was in the execution.

  296. WildSeed
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    I’m hoping we’ll see a lot of plotting and shenanigans with the Tyrell plot before we reach episode 8.
    Aegon the Conqueror,

    It’s hard to believe that a thirteen year old is the unsympathetic one when she is being forced to marry a much older man against her will.I don’t think it makes Tyrion especially heroic for not raping her on their wedding night. I’m not going to give him a huge amount of credit for not doing something obviously terrible. And the society reasoning doesn’t fly, because Tyrion knows just how bad raping your wife is.
    I understand he’s in a bad situation in King’s Landing himself but he certainly has a lot more choices than Sansa does.

    Well struck m’lady.

  297. Alan
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    BlackBloc:
    I think people forget that they left a bunch of stuff on the cutting floor from ACoK that is probably going to make it into this season in the early episodes. Like Season 2 they’ll need a few EPs to introduce characters (the Reeds, Ramsay Snow, the Bloody Mummers, the Brotherhood Without Banners, Mance’s court, all of which are cast) and I think that will lead to some moments from ACoK being put into Season 3 (the whole story with Lady Hornwood for instance, and for sure a bunch of torture for Theon/Reek, and they will also likely go deeper into Ned/Lyanna/Rhaegar backstory via the Reeds, putting in some exposition that was cut from the first two books). In King’s Landing I expect a lot of time spent on characterization for the Tyrells, probably these will be entirely new scenes.

    I also think if you are going to get Ciaran Hinds to play Mance Rayder, his screen time might be higher than the 2 scenes he has in the first half of aSoS.

  298. WildSeed
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Queenofthorns:
    Aegon the Conqueror,

    Tyrion assumes that Sansas lack of trust towards him is due to his appearance rather than the much more rational explanation – she has every reason to believe he conspired with the rest of his family to destroy her family. It seems quite likely the show will gloss over this since they have a serious mancrush on Tyrion and have cut everything that would have made him look at all unsympathetic.

    Highly likely and agree with additional comment by Ours is the Fury.

    I’m not certain or overly concerned with the absence of ser Dontos during these
    season 3 sequences. Either he will return in as another actor in later episodes
    or script assumed by Littlefinger. It’s still difficult to picture Littlefinger
    acting as accompliance to his own plan though. Probably the Queen of
    Thorns will sort that detail out all on her own .</b

  299. WildSeed
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    darquemode: I am excited to read you write that!! XD

    I initially thought of King’s Landing revolving around Sansa and her various possible marriages and/or escape … it all ending with her and Tyrion getting married. I always pictured Robb and the Tullys riding off for the RW as the ending of that arc… I gave up on that since so many thought the RW was a lock for Season 3 and most thought the PW would be in Season 3 too.

    I am estatic to think there is a small chance it may be how it plays out since it will allow the story to actually breath for the first time. There is so much going on in other parts of Westeros and Essos I think there is more than enough for 10 episodes.

    My gut tells me the RW will be the finale still, but my heart wants it in Season 4. I will be happy if at least the PW does not make it into Season 3 though.

    Okay, now you’ve initiated a chain reaction of ( hopeful ) expectations. Acceleration
    of events was mired in muck and inflamed many .

  300. DB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    DB,

    Sympathy because he was more like her than she would ever realise. In care you forgot Joffrey placed his hand on her breast just a couple of minutes earlier. At that point Tyrion still wanted to consummate the marriage. The mere fact that Tyrion told her he’d be willing to wait no matter how long that took is worth a lot. The fact that Tyrion treated her with more respect than any other Lannister should have told her something.
    Oh I’ve chosen my words carefully Persian, perhaps you should have done the same!

    Gods above, he’s a Lannister for crying out loud. This is the family that killed her father. It makes no matter to her whether he treats her more decently than the others, she still did not want to marry him and did not want to have sex with him. And Tyrion did not deserve any sex from her simply because ‘he was more like her’ (which no they are not alike at all) and he didn’t deserve sex because he ‘treated her with respect.’ (which also no because he still molested her). Tyrion is deserving of no sympathy in this scene point blank period. And that Joffrey comment is so extraneous and irrelevant that it just makes me want to…

    Also it is super sick and twisted to think that the marriage of a 13 year old to a grown man then is the same as the marriage of a 21 year old to a grown man now. Just because it was accepted more in those times doesn’t make it any less fucked up. And the average age for a girl to get married in those times were 16 so Sansa was young even then.

  301. WildSeed
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    YvyB:
    Did you know if you click on the name highlighted in Blue it takes you back to that quote? Found that out the other day …

    The ongoing education of lady YvyB and WildSeed. Thank, I’m up to speed too :D

  302. darquemode
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    BlackBloc,

    Exactly.
    I always felt that every individual arc does not need some huge climactic cliffhanger or epic moment to end the season. There are other arcs with those huge moments to end the upcoming season, but even without the RW or PW think of the arc endings in the middle chapters of the book….

    - Jon escaping the Wildlings.
    - Bran warging into Hodor.
    - The Hound vs Beric or Mummers vs BWB.
    - Stannis naming Davos Hand of the King
    - Dany taking Yunkai to the chants of “Mother”
    - Jaime rescuing Brienne in the bear pit.
    - Possibly Theon depending on how they handle his arc too…

    To me at least 3 of those events are epic finale worthy…. Also I personally think that Stannis turning to Melisandre and tossing the 3 leeches into the Fire is a big moment, and after a season of Sansa thinking she is escaping King’s Landing by marrying a Tyrell that her marriage to Tyrion is a big moment. If D&D wanted they could have Jon kill Ygritte when he escapes thus magnyfying his personl arc finale.

    There is more than enough material in the first half of the book when you add in all you mentioned from ACOK.

  303. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    Agreed with that one.

    Maegor The Cruel,

    My arguments are summed up in a pretty effective meme.
    Book Robb-learns his brothers are dead, finds comfort in the arms of a pretty girl, faces tough decision concerning honour, chooses girl’s honour over his own, marries her breaking sword word.
    Tv Robb, sees hot chick, falls for her, bangs her, breaking sworn word.

  304. sunspear
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

    DB,

    Ok, I understand how you might say Tyrion isn’t sympathetic, but you can’t say he did anything wrong in this scene. He refuses to sleep with her, saves her from the bedding ceremony, and treats her kindly.

  305. darquemode
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    I disliked the TV version for those exact reasons. The book made absolute sense to me and fit Robb’s character as well as Stark honor…. The TV version is cliche romance novel tripe.

  306. WildSeed
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

    YvyB:
    My family tree goes back to the 1500′s I can positively affirm the average age was about 16 years for marriage ..and a female was deemed a woman grown when she flowered. As Sansa had.Lets not forget it is only two generations since we left school at 14 and went out to work . Before that , Mills and Mines for childrenturn of the century .

    The question was … how was Tyrion unsympathetic? Which still hasn’t been answered…..

    Not ” Unsympathetic ” just no bonus points for being civil. It was he whom referred
    to Sansa as a child. Accurate assessment of late menses then and earlier
    now as modern stressors and physiological changes progress over time isn’t
    relevant here. Sansa, even “flowered at 13 by only a few days was still
    perceived a child by Tyrion. He had the right of way to force her into consummation
    true, but did not attempt this heinous act. I rather respect him for that actually :D

  307. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

    Morgan King,

    I know the books are common knowledge, but a lot of TV only viewers go out of their way to avoid spoilers. They believe it is safe to read a review by a trusted critic. Now, I’m not saying most critics would just blurt out a spoiler, but it would be very difficult to write a review of an episode that included the deaths of Robb and Catelyn or King Joffrey and not even allude to such a monumental event.

  308. WildSeed
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

    YvyB: Ha ha ha Panini :)

    LMAO :D

  309. WildSeed
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm: Oh, right uppity whore you are, you only bed with Lords, I take it? Littlefinger has a bed for you, I’m sure.

    Let the whore of Volantis sort this quarrel out

  310. Dracarys
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    I guess the red Wedding will be the last episode of this season, actually it is quite great, as it will leave everyone shocked! 4th season seems kind of dull though, besides Joffrey’s wedding and the big attack to the Wall there is not much to show and some characters will barely appear…

  311. WildSeed
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    Re: Talisa. Well stated ser, I concur.

  312. sunspear
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    Queenofthorns:
    Tyrion assumes that Sansas lack of trust towards him is due to his appearance rather than the much more rational explanation – she has every reason to believe he conspired with the rest of his family to destroy her fam

    From Sansa’s wedding night chapter:

    Look at him, Sansa told herself, look at your husband, at all of him, Septa Mordane said all men are beautiful, find his beauty, try. She stared at the stunted legs, the swollen brutish brow, the green eye and the black one, the raw stump of his nose and crooked pink scar, the coarse tangle of black and gold hair that passed for his beard. . . This is not right, this is not fair how have I sinned that the gods would do this to me, how?

    Not exactly helping your case.

  313. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    DB,

    I did not say he deserved sex, not once. I merely said he was well within his rights to take it. I would not call it molestation, I would say that he was going to exercise his rights as a husband (as he knew he must do for political reasons) before he stopped and changed his mind.
    Makes you want to what? Go on say it!
    There were no teenagers in those days, you cannot measure events from the past according to today’s standards. In today’s world I would consider this a horrible crime. 800 years ago not at all. Remember BRan saying to himself he was almost a man grown all the time? Yeah well guess what Sansa is a grown ass woman! There is no room for teenagers in Westeros.
    BTW thank you for fucking up a civil response to a previous comment of yours, I was just curious as to your reasons, but I see you cannot take criticism in the least.

  314. DB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    Aegon the Conqueror:
    DB,

    I did not say he deserved sex, not once. I merely said he was well within his rights to take it. I would not call it molestation, I would say that he was going to exercise his rights as a husband (as he knew he must do for political reasons) before he stopped and changed his mind.
    Makes you want to what? Go on say it!
    There were no teenagers in those days, you cannot measure events from the past according to today’s standards. In today’s world I would consider this a horrible crime. 800 years ago not at all. Remember BRan saying to himself he was almost a man grown all the time? Yeah well guess what Sansa is a grown ass woman! There is no room for teenagers in Westeros.
    BTW thank you for fucking up a civil response to a previous comment of yours, I was just curious as to your reasons, but I see you cannot take criticism in the least.

    Oh how naive the mind can be, but since when does a husband have a right to have sex with his wife? Would you really have been okay with reading about Tyrion having sex with Sansa even though you knew Sansa didn’t want to? Because you know what that is? RAPE.

    Yes, a husband can rape his wife.

    They are barely teenagers, regardless of the time period. Look at your 13 far old sister right now. Look at any 13 year old girl and tell me what time period is is ever okay to have sex with her. Did you ever stop to consider why the times have changed so drastically? It’s because someone stopped and took a look at a young girl and said ‘Wow! This is really fucked up! We should change!.’

    You need to check yourself.

  315. Lin Beifunk
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    lol @ moral relativism debates

    It is fully okay to judge peoples of the past, even fictional ones, by our own standards. Do we say ‘well, African-Americans were treated poorly in some southern American states during the Jim Crow period, but that was the time, so what can you do?’ No.

    It’s wrong and horrible no matter what. IMO, you can’t apply morals of the period to anything because, in general, they fucking sucked. Our ancestors were somewhat horrid in a few respects, so judge away.

  316. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    Dracarys,

    Hey there lurker, you planning on visiting us again anytime soon? We enjoyed having you albeit briefly.

  317. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    DB,

    Again you are using today’s standards on history and it does not work that way. Caesar is considered a Roman Hero, yet by today’s standards he would be a war criminal, does that take away his achievements? No it does not!
    Secondly Medieval Europe was ruled by the Catholic Church let’s say for arguments sake the faith of the Seven is exactly like Medieval Catholicism, well guess what these is this certain verse that says “The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does1 Cor 7:3-4 (ESV)”
    Guess what this was interpreted to mean in medieval times? Yes that’s right a husband has the right to sex from his wife.
    I don’t condone or would ever do this, but again today’s standard vs back then. Today murder is considered murder by the church, but guess what Pope Urban the Innocent once preached that by taking up the Cross and killing Muslims that you would be absolved of all your sins.
    You should see events within their historical context to maintain a balanced viewpoint of history.

  318. Rygar
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    The other day I asked my wife if she wanted to have sex. She said yes, with who?

    Boy I tell ya. Tough crowd.

  319. DB
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    You are unbelievably failing to realize that no matter the historical context it will still be fucked up. I’m telling there is a reason we don’t practice that in the US to this day, and I say the US because this shit is practiced in other parts of the world. What I’m getting from your argument is that you would have been okay with Tyrion raping Sansa because, in terms of Westerosi religion, he was in his right to do so. What reflection does that have upon you? Do you feel the same way about young girls forcefully getting FGM against their will in countries all around the world simply because it is viewed to be okay in said countries? To put things in the simplest of terms for your feeble mind: Just because some boss man or some textbook said it was okay, DOES NOT MAKE IT OKAY.

  320. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    DB,

    Fuck I give up there is no reasoning with you on a logical basis.
    There’s nothing left to say, I’m done.
    I try to be civil, but you insist on making personal remarks and insults, you don’t know me. I put an attempted rapist in the hospital last year. He got five years thanks to my friends and I. That’s all I will say.

  321. Pent
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    lavenderlullabies,

    huge god damn battle at the wall, is what happens :p

  322. Cary Storm
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:47 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    In a cast-saving measure, Talisa is also going to replace Taena, Lady Merryweather. I think it will be a simpler to merge these two basically incidental characters than write a whole new one. I wrote more rationale about this at wicgeeks.com; which I’m too tired to go into now :)

  323. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    I hear what your saying but I think that you may be over-simplifying TV Robb a bit. Granted, book Robb’s motivation for marrying is definitely more honor driven. TV Robb’s is more of a combination of being young, meeting this beautiful exotic girl with a lot of guts, realizing that he technically doesn’t need access to the bridge that the Freys control or the Frey marriage, and falls in love. I don’t think that it’s really a problem with the story in the show, but like you said the execution. You can probably chalk it up to the show trying to appeal to the younger female demographic (the Twilight crowd), because they like shlocky romance. It still wasn’t enough for me to hate it though. I like the fact that she was high born but going her own way as a field nurse. She’s doing her own thing, like certain other characters that we love. (like Arya). I don’t know, I have mixed feelings about the way that several of the story lines have been handled with the show. It’s interesting because Talisa is the only character (other than Roz) that was made for the show and because of that, we have a bit of a disconnect with her. The inclusion of Roz on the other hand, not only to stands in for Alayaya, but acts as a way for viewers to better understand Varys and Baelish.

  324. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:58 pm | Permalink

    WTF? My comment is deleted but a poster who calls another ‘feeble minded’ isn’t? At least mine was in jest.

  325. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    How can Talisa replace Taena? Talisa is Robb’s wife, and Taena becomes Cersei’s friend. (Or the closest thing to a friend that Cersei could have)

  326. Cary Storm
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel:
    Cary Storm,
    How can Talisa replace Taena? Talisa is Robb’s wife, and Taena becomes Cersei’s friend. (Or the closest thing to a friend that Cersei could have)

    Right, and Jeyne Westerling was Robb’s wife in the novels. Work it out.

  327. Morgan King
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 2:01 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I just can’t see D&D letting that niche of a reason dictate their season pacing, though. If it was Breaking Bad, or Lost or something, sure, but no critic will ruin it without spoiler tags, and anyone anywhere who wanted spoilers has them easily available. The TV-only viewers aren’t going to get anything more than ‘this week is a heartbreaking episode of Thrones’ and the like.

  328. Morgan King
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 2:16 am | Permalink

    DB,

    I don’t really want to get involved in this, but “since when does a husband have a right to have sex with his wife?” – that was a common sentiment up to the 1950s, and not even philosophically addressed until the 1850s – the age where that wasn’t totally expected and appropriate has been a tiny sliver of human civilization. If written history starts at 3100 BC, that’s 5112 years of human civilization, and only about 160 years of anything that resembles marital rape as a concept – 3% of the total time of humanity since the dawn of writing. Morality changes with time – like so many things we take for granted, good and evil are not inherent concepts.

  329. Joshua Taylor
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 2:48 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    As you may have noticed DB is very outspoken when it comes to misogyny on these boards and in reference to this show. The C Word debate occurring in the aftermath of The Prince of Winterfell easily comes to mind. In your defense I believe that you are not the person she makes you out to be and I feel that she may know this as well. I would call her attack as a preventative measure to make you understand that people read these books (and all texts) differently than others. Each of us place our own value systems to the story world no matter how much a detached focus re: moral relativism we may maintain. In this case your laisez-faire matter of fact breakdown of pubescent marriage as pertaining to Westeros as an analog to medieval carnal relations. Perhaps it seemed to her as if you were some woman-fearing nerd who appeared to be corrupted by an alarming misogynistic worldview. Not my impression of course, as I assumed you were matter of factly providing a synopsis of the passage. I too stumble in this pitfall when it comes to my female friends as my detached outlook and interpretation comes off to some as a cavalier attitude towards the treatment of women in the book/medieval history. It does not mean that we are as a morally bankrupt as the characters we defend/rationalize for, it’s just for some people these themes can create ugly confrontations if our detachment is misinterpreted for something else. I would even say that our very dissociative attitude to the events in the story, to such violence and ideology, is what triggered DB’s response.

    That said, she was very harsh to you and I support your assessment of
    Tyrion vis a vis Sansa. Sometimes we nerds get to carried away with the worlds we engross ourselves in that we forget that there are certain topics that do not lend themselves to a detached interpretation. Violene exists in this world that we live in because it is ingrained into our history. There are people who believe passionately in stamping this out and seeing our dissociative talk about such things provokes these passions.

    Life is cruel for man or woman in Westeros and in real life. If I come off to you as condescending I apologize. :-)

  330. Currer Bell
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 3:00 am | Permalink

    One thinks that the best argument against the PW being in S3 is the loss of Jeffrey as a central villain everyone loves to hate not to mention the conclusion of Jack Gleeson’s wonderful performance. The dramatic climax is like letting air out a balloon. Events that come afterward are flat and simple wrap up. (See the end of Hamlet or Romeo and Juliet. After the deaths of the main characters there’s not really anyplace to go.) With the deaths of Cat and Robb D&D should leave viewers with something to anticipate like foreshadowing the death of Joffrey. It will be difficult to ramp up interest at the beginning of S4 without some continuity. Using the PW in episode 2 or 3 as a mini-climax would give time to introduce Ramsey as a new hate object. It’s going to be a delicate transition to change the focus from Cat and Robb to others. S4 would give viewers time to adjust to the new world.

  331. ciri
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 6:35 am | Permalink
  332. Drary
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    Ehm…can anyone tell me whats the “P” standing for in “PW”? Probably it’s to obvious, but I can’t get it ^^

  333. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel,

    Look like I said I like Talisa more than Jeyne, I like the falling in love bit, but I would’ve preferred if he had resisted and only given in after hearing about Bran and Rickon’s death. I agree the idea was there but the execution was poor. What really bothers me is that Book Robb who is a teenager behaves like a a man of honour, whereas series Robb who is an adult behaves like a teenager. But the character of Talisa on her own, I like her.

  334. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    Maybe I’ve smoked too much pot over the years, but I just can’t see your Jeyne/Taena connection.

  335. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    Morgan King,

    Thanks man but don’t waste your breath, she’s gonna call you a fascist bastard who rapes his wife.

    Joshua Taylor,

    Look there’s a big difference between being outspoken and being a Douche Bag. Here’s the thing, it’s only a story so one needs to be a bit disassociated in order to maintain a balanced outlook. Any one who knows me knows I am a far cry from your typical nerd, and I am definitely not women fearing.
    And no you do not come off as condescending. I just wish a civil debate could be had without condescending to attacking a person’s character and morals for no reason other than being an asshole.
    We are still hoping for you to join the forum. You know where to find us.

  336. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    I understand. It would’ve been better if Robb didn’t give in until he heard about the “deaths” of his little brothers. It would at least make more of a reason to break his vow to the Frey Girl, and cause so much death. But even still, I can only truly blame Walder Frey for that. His brood have been getting picked off one by one, but some how I doubt that Walder will end up receiving justice by TBWB. If anything, I can sooner see him getting killed by one of his own family members. Have you noticed the pattern concerning revenge in this series? So many characters end of being robbed of it because the people that they want to kill end up dying under completely different circumstances.

  337. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel,

    Agreed.
    So are you planning on visiting us any time soon? We made a crackpot theory thread in your honour.

  338. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    Hahaha really? Well then I have to check it out now. What’s the address again? And I do do I have to cover up spoilers as well?

  339. Ours is the Fury
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    ciri,

    That rumor seems like they heard about the wedding filming and mistook it for the RW which did not film this week.

  340. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel,

    Check the previous thread, I posted it there. Some threads require spoilers, but most sections don’t.

  341. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    No, I meant what is the name of the site?

  342. Tír Airgid
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    Maegor The Cruel,

    No, I meant what is the name of the site?

    Click on my name and you’ll see it. Cheers.

  343. sunspear
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Cary Storm:
    Alan,

    In a cast-saving measure, Talisa is also going to replace Taena, Lady Merryweather.I think it will be a simpler to merge these two basically incidental characters than write a whole new one.I wrote more rationale about this at wicgeeks.com; which I’m too tired to go into now :)

    As a cast saving measure, I think it would be a good idea to simply drop Taena Merryweather like it’s hot.

  344. Daniel De Vivo
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    There can be a PW without The Viper. He is needed only for the trial.

  345. Mimsy
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    Rygar: Rygar
    Posted September 20, 2012 at 10:07 pm | Permalink
    The other day I asked my wife if she wanted to have sex. She said yes, with who?

    Boy I tell ya. Tough crowd.

      

    LMAO

  346. Daniel De Vivo
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    The only thing I think you’re missing is the Hound and Arya killing spree at the crossroads.

    You mentioned the hound and arya on the road but the word KILLING has to be a part of something. Great book scene! :)

  347. Maegor The Cruel
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    Daniel De Vivo,

    I have to disagree. I think that The Red Viper is a very important character, even outside of Tyrion’s trial. Not only does it add to the world by introducing one of the premier Dornishmen, but it also will show viewers of the show that Dorne has not forgotten the murders of Elia and her children. That’s something that should always be fresh in the viewers’ minds. I feel like the show doesn’t mention Rhaegar and Elia and the Sack of King’s Landing enough. And they had the perfect opportunity to do it at the House of the Undying. The visions that they showed were cool, but they really should have showed Rhaegar and Elia and baby Aegon. It would’ve been great foreshadowing. The RW vision, too.

  348. queenofthorns
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian,

    Mother! Mother! Mother!!! Great way to end the season, IMO. :)

  349. Jen@House Stark
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Love yas, Ser Rygar!!!

  350. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    My condolences friend, does not seem fair.

  351. Jen@House Stark
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    DB,

    Hold your horses, missy! It is a BOOK, it is not real. This is a gift from GRRM to his fans. There is enough of what you are speaking of in the world we are all aware of that. Some of us more than others. So, in that tone, I would suggest you have fun, relaxation, and calm as you post. We are all entitled to our opinions and everyone has them. Ya just never never know when you will step on the wrong feet. Have a good day.

  352. Virtus
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    DB: since when does a husband have a right to have sex with his wife?

    This part of your message is full of fail, sorry. All moral judgments aside, such a right was indeed understood to exist for thousands of years in history right until very near past. You can argue that it was immoral, but you can not say that it didn’t exist (which is what your “since when” sentence implies).

  353. Ours is the Fury
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Yeaahhhh I’m going to go ahead and agree with DB that parroting the “husband has a right to have sex with his wife” reasoning isn’t going to fly.
    ASOIAF are indeed books and they are only partly based in medieval society- they are not a replica of it, with the same rules and morals.
    Furthermore, applying that logic to Tyrion doesn’t work because he knows that having sex with your wife against her will is very wrong. He may be one of the few men in Westeros who understands that.
    But yeah in general, everyone be civil to each other. Them’s the rules. No name-calling, please!

  354. Virtus
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    I think it would have been immoral for Tyrion to act as well. The “since when” part just seemed to demonstrate certain unfamiliarity of history.

  355. Ours is the Fury
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    Virtus,

    I don’t think she’s unfamiliar with history. The point that it was always immoral for a man to rape his wife, regardless of men thinking it was aright.

  356. Morgan King
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    That’s simply not true – morality is, and always has been, a cultural affectation. The fictional land Westeros exists in is not bound by the heights of 20th century values. It is well-established within the books that the women of many of these fictional subcultures don’t have nearly the same rights afforded to them as the men and that rape is a persistent threat in Westeros, and a constant accepted presence in Essos. It’s an ugly, brutal world, and that’s why we love the fair and upstanding Starks for their efforts to rise above that.

  357. Brian
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Man, I was so excited for this announcement. I said to myself, “Finally, people will stop talking about the Purple Wedding being in Season 3.”

    Nope.

    I’m pretty certain that the Red Wedding will fall near the end of Season 3 though. Otherwise there won’t be an impactful event that everything led up to, which would disappoint a lot of fans. And it’s the perfect splitting point too. But it’s hard to say when it will happen. People may predict crazy events to happen in Episode 9… but if no crazy event happens in Episode 9, people will just assume it will happen in Episode 10, and it would be predicted anyway.

    I think they’ll either have it happen Episode 9, and then for the kicker in episode 10, end with UnCat opening her eyes… Or they’ll just have it happen as the last scene of Episode 10.

  358. Rygar
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    Representing the Troll minority, I would like to defuse all this hate in regards to sex/wife rape by quoting Head Troll George Michael: “Sex is natural, sex is fun, sex is best when it’s one on one.”

    One on one people. Now let’s all have sex. But NOT rape! Mmmkay?

  359. iRaven
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    What about this for the final scene of season 3 (assuming the RW is ep 9 or 10):

    A shot of Arya and the Hound sleeping somewhere in the woods…then Arya wargs into Nymeria’s POV, who we then see pulling a woman’s body out of the river (obviously Catelyn’s corpse, but only for the book readers). Then Nymeria runs away as a few members of the BWB walk up and are shocked at whose corpse they see, then cut to black. That gives viewers a whole year to speculate who it was, and Lady Stoneheart can be revealed some time in season 4, which will be more of the aftermath of the Red Wedding.

  360. Ahmed Hassan
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    Im a non reader , I have read ur comments and I really don’t understand what u guys talking about , RW , PW, JW, WW ….. So it didn’t spoil anything for me …
    I just wanna make a point here that we non reader fans of the show know and expect that EPISODE 9 of any season of GOT will be the big one after Baelor and Blackwater … So whatever Ws u guys are talking about it may potentially happen only in Episode 9

  361. Cary Storm
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    sunspear: As a cast saving measure, I think it would be a good idea to simply drop Taena Merryweather like it’s hot.

    Or that. Yes. I can go with that.

  362. Burgos
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    KG: Season premiere. THAT would take balls … I can hear the fan-screams already :D

    Sansa is Tyrion wed in s9 still has time for a Cat/Robb chat about heir and Jon.

    End Robb’s S3 with them reaching The Twins. S4 starts with RW and sets a new standard from critics (it will be insane response) and send S4 on its way to insanely high ratings for the season(possible season extension after airing).

    Jon’s storyline ends after the wildlings attack from the south and Yggrit’s death him looking out and seeing all the fires near the edge of the forest by the wall, or a few Giants/army walk out of the woods outside of archer range. Another big S4 setup (battle could be pushed a few episodes for a mid season burst)

    Dany’s dragons burning everything/unsullied will end s3 strong for her.

    Lots of room for the Brotherhood, Hound, Jaime/Brienne, Bran + co, etc

    In terms of story manipulation it would be a solid way to go.

  363. Cary Storm
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    Burgos,
    Mark your spoilers or kill your post!

  364. WildSeed
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    My sentiments exactly. I agreed with Ours is the Fury and DB initially and to a point;
    In the context of the ASOIAF books balanced with morality in general.

    The passionate escalation and name calling took it to an entirely different level
    and aside from the initial point. I agree with your earlier comments to Aegon
    and now. I’m glad it’s dissipated.

    And now for the Ottawa weather report………………………. :D

  365. WildSeed
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Representing the Troll minority, I would like to defuse all this hate in regards to sex/wife rape by quoting Head Troll George Michael:“Sex is natural, sex is fun, sex is best when it’s one on one.”

    One on one people.Now let’s all have sex.But NOT rape!Mmmkay?

    You should visit Skagos when you get another opportunity to travel, Trolls and
    Giants are everywhere. It’s like Fire Island in New York… or a trip to Mordor :D

  366. Joshua Taylor
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    My take on last scene of Season 3….

    Let’s suppose the Red Wedding occurs in episode 8 or 9 in season 3. This is what I would do in the final episode amidst the rest of the chaos. During the reactions to the RW, they will explicitly mention (but not show) all the gory detaill, key among them the Robb/Greywind “swap” and Cat’s body being dumped into the Tumblestone.

    In the middle of the episode, in what would appear to be a post Hound/Arya brotherhood throw away scene (I think/hope that Arya’s cathartic Inn of the Crossroads moment will take place here) Anguy or Thoros on patrol notice the presence of wolves (hello Nymeria!) around a deserted scrap of riverbank and find them dragging what may be a body to the shore. Their presence scares the wolves away, and we get a long shot view of a hand sticking up from the reeds. Later on, we have a tense conversation between Beric and Thoros on what must be done. Words such as “it was meant to be” , “I must do this”, “it is the only way” create moments of anxiety and tension in this episode. If the writing is good it could hint at something else possibly, such as attacking the enemy head on or something of the like. Then we get to the final moments of the season, Beric lying prostrate as his life energy ebbs into Thoros hands whilst the priest’s other hands rest on the same dead hand we saw earlier in the reeds. A burst of magic and Beric breathes no more. Thoros covers his eyes. Extreme Closeup of eyes coming to life, opening, followed by a jarring pull back to a closeup of her face, revealing to all in sundry that Cat’s back with her slashed throat in all it’s macabre glory. Cue End Credits.

  367. Joshua Taylor
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    ITS RAINING!

  368. Virtus
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    Regarding the last episode of S3, I think they could 1) show Arya’s dream, where Nymeria pulls Cat’s body out of the river, and a bit later 2) show Beric and Thoros finding the body on the river bank. They don’t need to make it too explicit: by this time viewers already know of Thoros’s power.

  369. Salty Dornishman
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    I gotta say, it seems that DB has a deeper issue here. I get that relativism is a slippery slope, but Aegon is right that we cannot judge Westeros by the standards of a 21st century, first world society. It was as late as the early 20th century when it was still acceptable to beat one’s wife with a stick “no wider than a man’s thumb.” I think we need to keep context in mind.

  370. Joshua Taylor
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Burgos,

    Even better, season 4 episode 1. Begins with a Frey hanging, someone called Lady Stoneheart and ominous shit going down. Cut to the end of the episode, Joffrey dies in Cersei’s arms, it’s an awful death for an awful person, tears streaming out of his eyes at the horror of it all, his face turning purple, his mother screaming and sobbing and Gleeson gives us one last performance in making us feel disturbed by his death as we see not a King but a frightened boy silently begging for his life (save for the desperate clawing of his mother’s robe) as he does not go gently into the good night. Cut to a tree of dead Freys and Lady Stoneheart drops the hood, it’s Catelyn of course, slashed throat and all. “The North Remembers.” She hisses (or she could just remains stonily silent, creepy in itself). End credits.

  371. Joshua Taylor
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    Salty Dornishman,

    It means that we tread on thin ice when we discuss the book’s subject matter in a breezy fashion.

  372. Ours is the Fury
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    Salty Dornishman,

    I would caution against making judgments like that. Personally I have no “deeper issues” connected to the subject of rape and I agree with her points. Women do not need to have experienced such abuse to be annoyed with the insistence that we’re not seeing things right. There is no reason why we can’t look at things from a 21st century perspective- Game of Thrones is not a historical drama set in a certain time. It’s fantasy and therefore there is no required mindset.

  373. Joshua Taylor
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    All of what you said is true. But DB treated Aegon with contempt. She could have expressed her frustration in a way that didn’t make him seem complicit to the misogynistic culture of Westeros nor did she need to call him feeble minded or treat him like a child. At what part did he actually condone the behaviour? She was not civil at all. At least she called him naive, which points to her being exasperated. But she went overboard in my opinion.

  374. The Red Viper
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    This just proves what I’ve been suspecting all along. That the RW will be the season finale for S3. Whether that’s episode 9 or 10, I’m not sure but I’d prefer 10 as it will space out RW and T+S wedding a bit.

    I thought this was pretty obvious simply because having PW in S3 would mean that they’d have to cast a few important Martell characters this season in a season where they’ve already made a lot of new additions. It’d be much easier to introduce the Martells in S4 where they actually have the the time and the budget (with a few main characters dying in S3) to introduce to us Dorne as a whole and not just Oberyn.

  375. Ours is the Fury
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    I’m not interested in any more name-calling on either side.

  376. The Red Viper
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

    Just want to give my 2 cents on this issue. Our perceptions of what is moral differ according to culture and religion.

    In fact, in Islamic law (today), if a wife cannot fulfil her husband’s sexual needs or the husband cannot fulfil his wife’s sexual needs, it is grounds to annul the marriage.

    DB does come off as being ethnocentric for saying “it is just wrong”. People from cultures which permit marriage at a younger age or arranged marriage might feel offended. They don’t see it as wrong.

    My grandmother got married at the age of 13 during the World War. Is my grandfather an immoral person for having sex with her? It was the cultural norm in her society at the time to get married as soon as you’re capable of having kids (much like in fictional Westeros).

    In the context of a Song of Ice and Fire, it is a lot easier to sympathize with Tyrion in that situation because just recently Margaery Tyrell was able to annul her marriage with Renly on the grounds that they never had sex. Having sex with Sansa would make sure that he would be Lord of Winterfell (as “divorces” don’t exist in the eyes of the Seven). At the same time, Tyrion knew Sansa didn’t want him and respected her enough to put her happiness ahead of his political motives and even his libido (he was aroused when he saw her naked). In fact, it was naive of Tyrion of sorts to expect Sansa to eventually grow to love him despite what his family did.

  377. Joshua Taylor
    Posted September 22, 2012 at 1:38 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    I’m not talking about name calling, I even defend her position. But her attitude was ridiculous. The least you could do then is acknowledge our side of this debate…you know to be fair? I understand when it comes to this topic people have their point of views but I always aim for a civil discourse even when I am offended. That’s all.

    If you don’t want to acknowledge it fine, if you do, much appreciated. I’m done with it. But I won’t hesitate to point it out when it happens again.

  378. WildSeed
    Posted September 22, 2012 at 1:59 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    WildSeed,

    ITS RAINING!

    Glad you followed my comment Joshua, it was directed at you. I think I forgot
    the ” quote ” tab before typing my post. Hope you and yours are weathering the wet
    in style :D Sure hope the gods ( esp Zeus and Poseidon) aren’t pissing from the
    clouds again.

  379. the goat
    Posted September 22, 2012 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    Quick reminder, as I celebrate Kansas State’s imminent demise:

    #1. NONE OF THIS SHOULD EVER HAVE HAPPENED.

    Every fucking frame you argue about, is a gift.

    Its literally insane. Whoever greenlit this shit should be fucking fired, posthaste. (rehired in late April 2010 as network CEO).

    #2. NOTHING. (IS WHAT YOU’VE SEEN)

    As genre-defying and industry-defying as Season 1 and Season 2 were . . . its adult diaper time for you now. Boosh, bitch!!

    Okay, rant over, you are all free to continue hating texas. (meet me at the fair, Oct 13)

  380. Ours is the Fury
    Posted September 22, 2012 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    You don’t get to decide how the other person argues their point and what their tone is. That’s the annoying part of a debate. Either way, I don’t want to see any more personal insults from either side.

  381. Bgap
    Posted September 22, 2012 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    The Red Viper,

    So true…Both of my grandmothers married in their late teens, and much like the conditions in Westeros, were expected to submit to their husband’s needs. Almost comic how far the pendulum has swung since then. I have a couple of buddies in relationships where the conditions have to be perfect in every way before their partners will be in the mood, to the point that they feel lucky if it happens once every few weeks.

  382. claw
    Posted September 22, 2012 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    I think the wedding of S&T in episode 8 falls within what they did with Arya in season 2 of the tv show. Page numbers and actual chapters be damned. Her story did not follow the book at all, really – some events were there, but overall it diverted from the book immensely. We have yet to meet the Queen of Thorns, so they may well pull an Arya/Tywin storyline with Sansa and the Tyrells and possibly even (re)introduce Dontos and add that back into it all. There is plenty of character development to be had and they can build the tension of hope of getting out of there (with Dontos) and finding possible allies or like-thinkers in the Tyrells with regards to the madness of the situation they all find themselves in (aka the game of thrones) and to build that hope up most of the season only to dash it to hell by waking her up and hurrying her to the alter to marry…Tyrion. I think plot-wise, that would have a lot of potential.

  383. Quowala
    Posted September 22, 2012 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    I hope they introduce Patchface at the start of series 3. He has the potential to be really creepy and could do his cryptic fore-shadowing -

    “Fool’s blood, king’s blood, blood on the maiden’s thigh, but chains for the guests and chains for the bridegroom, aye aye aye”

  384. Jim
    Posted September 22, 2012 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Folks, the PW is near the end of the book. They are doing ASOS as two seasons. NO WAY the PW will be in season 3. My money’s on RW in season finale, and the PW as episode 8 or 9 of season 4, with the Red Viper’s duel with you-know-who as the highlight of the season 4 finale.

  385. YvyB
    Posted September 22, 2012 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Bgap:
    The Red Viper,

    So true…Both of my grandmothers married in their late teens, and much like the conditions in Westeros, were expected to submit to their husband’s needs. Almost comic how far the pendulum has swung since then. I have a couple of buddies in relationships where the conditions have to be perfect in every way before their partners will be in the mood, to the point that they feel lucky if it happens once every few weeks.

    That !

  386. YvyB
    Posted September 22, 2012 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    The Red Viper:
    Just want to give my 2 cents on this issue. Our perceptions of what is moral differ according to culture and religion.

    In fact, in Islamic law (today), if a wife cannot fulfil her husband’s sexual needs or the husband cannot fulfil his wife’s sexual needs, it is grounds to annul the marriage.

    DB does come off as being ethnocentric for saying “it is just wrong”. People from cultures which permit marriage at a younger age or arranged marriage might feel offended. They don’t see it as wrong.

    My grandmother got married at the age of 13 during the World War. Is my grandfather an immoral person for having sex with her? It was the cultural norm in her society at the time to get married as soon as you’re capable of having kids (much like in fictional Westeros).

    In the context of a Song of Ice and Fire, it is a lot easier to sympathize with Tyrion in that situation because just recently Margaery Tyrell was able to annul her marriage with Renly on the grounds that they never had sex. Having sex with Sansa would make sure that he would be Lord of Winterfell (as “divorces” don’t exist in the eyes of the Seven). At the same time, Tyrion knew Sansa didn’t want him and respected her enough to put her happiness ahead of his political motives and even his libido (he was aroused when he saw her naked). In fact, it was naive of Tyrion of sorts to expect Sansa to eventually grow to love him despite what his family did.

    and that ! :)

  387. Joshua Taylor
    Posted September 22, 2012 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    Quowala,

    Amen!

  388. Nicolai Hansen
    Posted September 22, 2012 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    ciri,
    GRRM has confirmed, not directly, that RW happening in season three.

  389. John
    Posted September 23, 2012 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

    oh man,thought Dinklage would win it .

    Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series –

    *WINNER* Aaron Paul, Breaking Bad

  390. Ben
    Posted September 24, 2012 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    tek,

    what is PW?

  391. Ben
    Posted September 24, 2012 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    Jake,

    WHAT is the PW?????

  392. YvyB
    Posted September 24, 2012 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    Ben:
    Jake,

    WHAT is the PW?????

    Ben try reding the rest of the thread ! It’s been answered all ready….

    However, I will tell you again…. :)
    It is Joff’s wedding , purple because of the gemstones , the colour he turns and a few other things... fans started calling it that and it stuck.

  393. hinka
    Posted September 24, 2012 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLKr3RaJXuM

    Nice Interview in German Television.
    He talked about his books and the strong connection to actual politics. For example, he explains dany her story (free a country with slaves where actually everybody should be happy, but they aren’t and ruling is difficult, even with superpowers (dragons). You see the similarity to nuclear weapons… and freeing foreight countries).

    If he had a time machine, george would first travel to the future and look how mankind did.

    Besides that he explains that sometimes people stop reading because there is sex in the books, but they don’t quit because of war and violence. But war is bad and sex is good.

  394. Chris
    Posted September 25, 2012 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    Tom O’ Sevens,

    With diamonds!

  395. caoimay
    Posted September 26, 2012 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    the RW episode will be whatever ep dan and david are directing.
    RW and TSW has to happen before PW because plot points!

  396. back and neck
    Posted September 26, 2012 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Hmm is anyone else having problems with the pictures on this blog
    loading? I’m trying to find out if its a problem on my end or if it’s the blog.
    Any feed-back would be greatly appreciated.

  397. Claudia
    Posted October 1, 2012 at 12:38 am | Permalink

    I was kinda hoping Sansa’s and Tyrion’s wedding would happen off-screen, if only to give more time to other storylines.

  398. harrison
    Posted October 8, 2012 at 3:28 am | Permalink

    So, the confirmed story arcs for season 3 are:

    T+S Wedding
    Jon & Wildlings
    Sam & Night’s Watch
    Theon & Ramsay
    Robb & Caitlin
    Dany in Slaver’s Bay
    Bran & Reeds
    Tyrell Scheming
    Jaime & Brienne
    Davos & Stannis
    Arya & BWB
    Sansa
    Balon Greyjoy’s death

    Yeah. There’s plenty to fill one season and end somewhere around the RW.

  399. Anon
    Posted October 9, 2012 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    I filmed as an extra in Belfast. Can’t say when, where or at what. But just thought I’d tease you all =P

  1. [...] Acorde informó el sitio winteriscoming.net, Kit Harrington fue visto en el set esta semana, vestido acorde a su personaje y aun entablillado y usando muletas. [...]

  2. [...] Winter is Coming has a snitch at the filming of the Purple Wedding, and there have been what appear to be misinformed rumors floating around that this wedding was indeed the Red Wedding. Just thought you all should know that’s not the case. [...]

  3. [...] previously reported, filming is expected to occur from September 27th through October 7th, with locations in the Old [...]

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