Episode 22 – Dark Wings, Dark Words – Newbie Recap
By Winter Is Coming on in Recap.

Jojen Osha and Meera

Lots of new characters were introduced in last night’s episode. What was a new viewers reaction to all of those introductions? Our newbie recapper Oz of Thrones has shared his thoughts on “Dark Wings, Dark Words” after the break.

Spoiler note: The discussion in this post is primarily for non-book readers (book fans can discuss the show here). We ask all the series veterans to refrain from posting spoilers in the comments here, veiled or otherwise. This show is best viewed without knowing all the surprises beforehand, so please be respectful of your fellow fans. Thank you!

Oz of Thrones: Let me begin by reiterating a portion of my original disclaimer: “Understand that I may not always get the names and places absolutely correct, especially with the expectation of so many new characters and exotic locales this season.” I expected the new characters, but Holy Shit…… all in one episode? I would assume that after an episode such as this, it is quite advantageous to be a book reader, as my head feels like it is about to explode from trying to digest everything that took place. A man shall try, but I can almost guarantee a late week “Upon Further Review,” as I will almost certainly have to view this one again just to see what I missed the first time. We, the “Unsullied” non-book readers will attempt to sort the new together, manhood and nipples intact (hopefully). Enough with the pleasantries…. We have a lot to cover.

Bran is back, and he is dreaming once again. This time, he aims at and misses the three-eyed raven with his bow, and remembers how his brothers gave him hell about missing his target in Season 1. He hears the voice of his father, and then sees a boy that he does not recognize who tells him that he can’t kill it. “The raven is you” he says. Bran wakes up to what all fair Westerosi women surely dream of waking up to: “Hodor!” Later on, Bran and Osha are approached by the boy from Bran’s dream, Jojen Reed, who has an amazing calming effect on the direwolf who is ready to eat him alive. He is accompanied by his weapon-wielding sister, Meera. Jojen tells Bran that he is a warg(sp?) (see Orell, below).

Robb is informed of news from Riverrun and Winterfell. Catelyn’s father has died and they discuss plans to attend the funeral. They also find out that upon Bolton’s bastard son arriving at Winterfell, that Theon’s men were gone and the castle had been torched. Interesting story line twist there, and gets us a step closer to finding out who burned the castle. Now, where the hell is Theon?

Catelyn and Talisa have a conversation about, of all people, Jon Snow. She tells her that she more or less hated the boy, and prayed to the Gods to take him away. Jon was spared, but Catelyn never fulfilled her promise on asking Ned for his name to be changed, and she blames that decision on the hardships that the family is being put through now.

Speaking of Jon Snow, he is once again introduced to something else he has never seen. The first episode of the season was the giant. This time, he meets a worg(sp?) named Orell. A worg can see through the eyes of animals, and Orell is looking through the eyes of a large bird (do they have a name for eagles beyond the wall?). When Mance asks what he has seen, he responds,”dead crows.”

Westeros’ favorite traveling threesome are back for Season 3. Arya, Gendry, and Hot Pie (is that really his name?) are still traveling through the woods as they are met by the Brotherhood Without Banners and some wild looking, crazy uncle looking guy named Thoros of Myr and his phenom bow and arrow marksman, Anguy. If you recall, this is the group that the Mountain and his men were looking for information about in Season 2 when they were torturing people with rats at Harrenhall. Thoros offers the group a hot meal and then promises to let them go on their way. As the threesome finishes their meal and in the midst of departing, the Hound is brought in who immediately recognizes Arya. I presume that ArGenPie’s fate depends on how the B w/o B feels about the Starks.

Theon! And he is being tortured by some unknown assailant who is educated on the joys of having a fingertips pierced by sharp objects. And large screws inserted into feet. But who is this? And once again, where the hell is Theon?

Sansa is called by Loras to meet with Margeary and her grandmother, and we are finally introduced to Lady Olenna Tyrell. Here, we get a fantastic introduction on who this infamous woman is and how she speaks her mind regardless of who it may piss off. Overcome with emotion and hate, Sansa tells of how Joffrey had her fathers’ head cut off, showed it to her, and that ultimately, he is a monster. I feel like Sansa can trust the Queen of Thorns, but what about Margaery?

Tyrion shows up for a brief conversation with Shae, which turns into an awkward argument about Sansa. Was this just filler, or is there something to the half man’s attraction to Sansa? I don’t buy into the “filler”, as D & D usually have a motive for everything. Still, I found it odd.

Joffrey gets fitted for some new clothing, and once again is rude and condescending to his mother. I am beginning to wonder if Cersei is going to kill him before anyone else has the chance. Margaery visits the King and seems to play to him on the comments of Sansa, engaging him on his rights as the King, and sharing his love for weaponry and killing. The question with Margaery again becomes is she legitimate, or is it an act to get a sense of whether or not Joffrey truly is a monster?

Last but not least, the odd couple are still headed Kings Landing, and are apparently getting plenty to drink based on Jaime’s watering of the tree. They run into a lone traveler whom they argue about killing as Jaime fears the man knows who he is. Brienne says no, a decision that would come back to haunt them later. While crossing a bridge, Jaime is able to get Wonder Woman’s sword from her. But just as Brienne is getting the best of him, they are approached by the Flayed Man of House Bolton and Jaime offers him money to let them go. The Flayed Man declines the offer in favor of the King of the North and keeping his head attached.

Episode 302 Personal Awards
Favorite Scene: Tough pick, but I have to go with the sword duel between the odd couple.
Favorite Quote: Tie “It’s a shame the throne isn’t made out of cocks. They’d have never gotten him off it.” -Jaime speaking to Brienne about Renly.
And… “But once the cow’s been milked, there’s no squirting the cream back up her udders” -Lady Olenna Tyrell
Ow, That Shit Hurts Award: Theon’s hand, foot, mouth (screaming, that is)predicament.
Favorite New Character: Lady Olenna was superb as the quick-witted grandma, as was the crazy uncle, Thoros of Myr. But I am quite intrigued by Jojen Reed. This kid’s demeanor and interaction with Bran was very cool to watch, as he came across as extremely confident and highly intellectual.

Overall: I realize that we all watched the show, and that the recap may be a bit lengthy. However, I feel there was some importance to every event I detailed. With that being said, this episode was all over the place. After the first episode of the season, which gave me the impression that there would be more investment in characters in time per episode with fewer characters being featured, this one kicked me back into reality as it came dangerously close to putting me over the Westerosi cliff. Don’t misunderstand the Oz, I enjoyed the episode, and I know that it is was likely a necessary evil in setting up events later in the season. But in all honesty, it was almost an overdose of information. Or maybe it was my overindulgence of ale. Or the lack of boobs.

Please give me your thoughts on the episode, the recap, the characters, and if you have a GoT hangover today. Remember, we are the Unsullied….. comment away, but no spoilery please!!!

Until next time, may there be peace in your realm. -Oz


107 Comments

  1. telobsidion
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    Hodor?

    Really?

  2. Daemon
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    As a book reader, I read these with extreme envy.

  3. JonnyPT
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

    I actually prefer reading non book readers reviews (despite having read the books) simply because most people who did read them are plain boring and whiny about changes. What they do is a comparison between the books and the show, which is, well, stupid.
    Btw, great review.

  4. Laura
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    Even as a book reader, I’m loving your recaps Lord Oz, they are full of genious! ArGenPie!! Genious!!

  5. Book Nazi
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    I think the show runners dropped the ball this episode… where was the HBO required nudity??? Well you can count the shirtless Joffery, I am sure that made all the ladies swoon.

  6. MyNameIsJamie
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Just a clarification on who picked up Jaime and Brienne. That’s the new non-book character Locke, the “Flayed Man of House Bolton” is the sigil that was flying on the flags. Locke is Bolton’s “best hunter” as he stated in episode one. That said, as someone who’s read all the books, have to say I love reading your “newbie” takes on the episodes!

  7. Markus
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    I like your recaps too (as a bookreader), however I would love more of a review than a recap. Hear your thoughts on what works and doesnt work and less summary of what happened.

    Anyway, it is a curse beeing a bookreader because you have expectations to have all your favorite stuff there but they constantly need to cut favorite scenes and change things you loved and that irks you enought for you not to appreciate the greatness of some scenes.

  8. predat0rian
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Was anyone else a little disappointed about the fact that Brienne won the fight against Jaime so easily? I thought that Jaime was supposed to be one of the best fighters in the realm… Either way it was a good match!

  9. jasonw
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    predat0rian,

    yea but he had been chained up for along time he’s really not at the top of his game

  10. Dana
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    predat0rian,

    @predat0rian
    Yes I see what you mean, however Jamie has been a prisoner for months and months now so I am sure he is a little out of shape.. they made sure to show us how tired he got at one point.

  11. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Of course the Imp is attracted to Sansa, he is attracted everyone. But more importantly, I suspect he is indeed going to intervene with Little Finger. They both play the game well and Sansa is an important piece on the board now that she has the ear of the second richest family in Westeros.

    Margaery is not likely to be legit with Joffrey, she had heard the rumors about. him even before Sansa called him a monster. The fact the she didn’t flinch at the story of Ned’s head shows she isn’t suprised at how violent he can be. I am betting that the crossbow scene was manipulating his bloodlust, the only lust he seems to have. I suggest she has his heir and kills him asap.

    Those wargs are creepy. I wonder if they can get inside people too. Bran needs to keep his gaurd up, but maybe he can control his power to tell his family he is safe. Unlike Arya, who lost her first sword match (and her confidence with it) just in time to be found be the Hound. I really wish Sansa had come with him cause the Stark kids all need some family right now.

  12. Amanda
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Add me to the list of bookreaders who love your recaps :P

    I agree with you though about how it’s starting to get a bit overwhelming with all the storylines (especially for a non-book reader, I’m sure!) I think part of it is a pacing issue (I’m going to briefly do the dreaded book-show comparison… Apologies :P). But the third book is so packed full of important events, character development, and new characters that even splitting it between two seasons, I feel like the 10-episode limit is forcing them to rush to fit it all in. Several of the storylines already seem to be moving wayyyyy faster than the book, and we’re only two episodes in!

    I hope they are able to slow down the pace a bit in later episodes so that non-readers aren’t so overwhelmed by everything that’s going on and book-readers don’t feel like the storylines are being too condensed or rushed.

    Anyway, a nice solid recap, and I give you credit for being able to follow everything! :P

  13. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    predat0rian,

    The Kingslayer may be the best swordsman in the realm, but Brienne already defeated the second best: The Knight of Flowers. Jaime already told her there were only a handful of men who could beat him, and I’m sure she knew he was talking about Loras and chose not to mention that beating him in a tourney is how Lady Stark first encountered her.

  14. Dana
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Excellent review/recap.
    I am non-bookreader so I am in the same boat as you!
    I do agree though that episodes 1 and 2 were pretty much the set up for the rest of the season.
    You saw some stories in episode 1 that we didnt see yesterday in episode 2.
    No dragons :(
    They should increase the episodes per season to 12 or 13 just like allother HBO shows/ or should i say all the ones i have seen – Sopranos, the wire, boardwalk empire etc..

  15. House Minor
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    predat0rian,

    He is, but you have to remember that he has been in chains, tied to a stake in a prison since halfway through season 1. He hasn’t been able to move, stretch/workout properly that whole time, and who knows what he was being fed. Also, he was still in chains last night.

    And last but not least, he was up against Brienne, who is larger, probably stronger, and also one of the best fighters in the realm. She did win Renly’s tourney after all.

    …….I see a few of us made the same assessment

  16. Suzaku
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    Some notes from a book reader:

    It is indeed “warg.”

    The “flayed man” is the sigil of House Bolton; their words are, “our blades are sharp.” The character’s name is Locke, and he and his fellows are something of an invention for the show, replacing another group of characters but serving the same basic functions for the plot.

  17. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    Nice solid recap. And as another book reader, I appreciate these recaps too given the unvarnished perspective.

    Other things I liked, and I’m posting here just b/c the recap post already has 300 comments:

    –Nice the way the spectral ghost of Ned Stark hovers over his children, as Sansa mentions him, and of course the voice Bran hears with the scene that recalls the first episode of the series, with the blocking (that includes Robb and Jon) exactly the same. In some ways this episode feels like a lot of mediation on the way things were once, considering the conversations between Bran and Jojen and Cat’s monologue.

    –Cat’s speech about Jon Snow was really well-done and brought out some guilt and conflict that was really interesting.

    –”When I’m done talking, that arrow is going to fall down on your fat head. And now I’m done talking.”

    –Lady Olenna is awesome, the Dowager Countess of Highgarden. Love Diana Rigg.

    –It felt in some ways like Season 1 didn’t really start to pick up until the 4th episode; Season 2, the 3rd. This year, seems like maybe the 2nd episode.

  18. Dan Spicer
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    My wife is also a non-book reader, and here are her general comments. “where is Theon?” ” How come they didn’t show Theon in ‘Previously on Game of Thrones’ segment before the credits? How was I supposed to remember where he was last?” “Ewwwwww…that’s gross, but I guess he deserves it. Ewwwwww, stop, I know he deserves it, but…” “That’s the Hound! That’s the Hound!” “Who are these new kids? Are they going to hurt Bran? They better not hurt Bran, I’m never watching this show again if they kill Bran.” “Where did the little kid go?” Why don’t they care if he runs off? Is he gonna get killed? I’m never watching this show again if they kill that little kid. I guess that’s Robb’s wolf? What happend to Arya’s wolf? How come that old guy doesn’t like Robb’s wife? How come Sansa’s not being tortured like Theon? What are they going to do with her? Are they going to kill her? If someone has to get killed I guess she can, but they better not kill the little girl, Arya. I’ll be so pissed if she gets killed, and you won’t be allowed to watch this show anymore. I’ll cancel HBO if Arya gets killed. ” Fun times on the couch on Sunday nights… Ha!

  19. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear:
    predat0rian,

    The Kingslayer may be the best swordsman in the realm, but Brienne already defeated the second best: The Knight of Flowers. Jaime already told her there were only a handful of men who could beat him, and I’m sure she knew he was talking about Loras and chose not to mention that beating him in a tourney is how Lady Stark first encountered her.

    Jaime had previously said there were only a couple who could beat him. In the second season he recalls squiring for Barristan Selmy, noting that Barristan was a painter “who only used red.” I think we can safely say Selmy is one of the only couple who could beat him in a sword match. One other, just thinking logically, would be Gregor “The Mountain” Clegane, because of his size and reach, but Jaime wouldn’t be so foolish as to try to face him in a battle.

    (If I had one wish, it would be that the clash between Jaime and Brienne last longer…)

  20. King DBC
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    ArGenPie, that’s hilarious.

  21. Clob
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer: My wife is also a non-book reader, and here are her general comments. “where is Theon?” ” How come they didn’t show Theon in ‘Previously on Game of Thrones’ segment before the credits? How was I supposed to remember where he was last?” “Ewwwwww…that’s gross, but I guess he deserves it. Ewwwwww, stop, I know he deserves it, but…” “That’s the Hound! That’s the Hound!” “Who are these new kids? Are they going to hurt Bran? They better not hurt Bran, I’m never watching this show again if they kill Bran.” “Where did the little kid go?” Why don’t they care if he runs off? Is he gonna get killed? I’m never watching this show again if they kill that little kid. I guess that’s Robb’s wolf? What happend to Arya’s wolf? How come that old guy doesn’t like Robb’s wife? How come Sansa’s not being tortured like Theon? What are they going to do with her? Are they going to kill her? If someone has to get killed I guess she can, but they better not kill the little girl, Arya. I’ll be so pissed if she gets killed, and you won’t be allowed to watch this show anymore. I’ll cancel HBO if Arya gets killed. ” Fun times on the couch on Sunday nights… Ha!

    Geez! I’d have to watch it first airing alone and then “allow” someone to watch with me during the second airing. I’d go nuts if someone was talking the whole episode. :)

  22. Mark
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    House Minor

    If you look close, his hands were still actually bound. It’s pretty impressive that he was able to put up that much of a fight like that.

  23. Handmaiden of Dany
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer,

    LOL! Awesome!

    My husband, isn’t a book reader but actaully has watched the last two episodes with me even though he doesn’t care for the show. He seemded to enjoy last week’s episode with the Tyrion/Tywin exchange. Last night all he said was “meh, that was slow.”

  24. Sugaree
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    predat0rian,

    Jaime is weakend by his life of capture and near starvation for many many months. This is expressed well in the books but the writers of the show did not express this well enough for non book readers to understand.

  25. House Minor
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer,

    That is by far one of the funniest damn things I have read in a long time.

    I began watching the show and got my girlfriend into it for season 2, and heard a lot of the same questions. Now though she has seen all episodes and has read all the books, so I don’t get questions like that anymore.

    Seeing your post made me realize just what book readers with non-book reader significant others must be dealing with…..once I stopped pissing myself from laughter.

  26. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    It would make sense that Jaime is weak from being held captive. Last night, Ozzette mentioned the fact that they couldn’t have had much to eat during their travels.

    A man thanks everyone for clearing up the spelling of “warg”, and identifying the Flayed leader as Locke, with no spoiler issues.

  27. House Minor
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Mark,

    Oh I definitely saw that, and mentioned it in my post.

    To clarify, I still think a healthy Jamie would win, but in his condition, weak and bound like he was, he didn’t stand a chance…..and Brienne knew it.

  28. Jen
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    Another person with a non-reading spouse :D My husband made me pause the show so he could clarify where Robb and Cat were, b/c he assumed it was Winterfell so it confused him when they received “Word from Winterfell” … and then he understand when I told him that’s where Arya and “The Man” had been *lol* … then he had a random epiphany that “The Man” had been able to kill people b/c he could change his face … lol.

  29. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    Where is Theon?

    Last season, Roose Bolton (Robb’s senior bannerman) offered to have his bastard son liberate Winterfell. Robb agreed on the condition that all the Ironborn except Theon be permitted to return home if they surrendered. Theon was to be captured alive because Robb has a bone to pick with him.

    Theon and his men were indeed besieged at Winterfell, presumably by said bastard son and his rear guard garrison of several hundred men. Maester Luwin counseled Theon to escape to the Wall, but he decided he would rather go down fighting. His men enjoyed the pre-battle speech but decided against participating in a suicide mission to fight their way out of the keep. Instead, they knocked Theon unconscious, put a bag over his head and – presumably – traded him for safe passage home. Whether they got it is unclear, but it’s safe to say that Theon has ended up a prisoner of Roose Bolton’s bastard son, presumably in the Boltons’ castle somewhere in the North.

  30. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    GreatJon of Slumber,

    Good point about Selmy. And along with The Mountain and Loras that would make 3 people, and for some reason I think Jaime specifically said there were 4. I wonder who the last one was?

  31. HellFell
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin:
    Where is Theon?

    it’s SPOILER

  32. Dana
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear,

    I bet Eddard could smash him! Ha!!!

  33. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    Wrt new characters: c’mon, there weren’t all *that* many ;^)

    1+2 – Jojen & Meera Reed, the new kids in Bran’s party
    3 – Orell, the wildling warg
    4 – Olenna Tyrell, Margaery’s grandmother
    5 +6 – Thyros of Myr (leader) & Anguille (archer) of the Brotherhood without Banners
    7 +8 – an unnamed torturer & an unnamed self-identified Ironborn spy
    9 – Lock, the Bolton officer on horseback on the bridge

  34. Dana
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    HellFell,

    I read it already – is it a spoiler?!?!?
    i am a non-book reader

  35. Jen
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    Dana,

    It’s hard to say, b/c you could definitely put all that together and at this point in the story in the books it’s known … who knows what they are trying to do with the secretiveness in the show, though.

  36. Dana
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    Jen,

    It just didnt make sense that Theon is being held captive by Bolton’s bastard, and Robb recieves a raven that the Iron born destroyed winterfell and that theons men had left

  37. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    Dana,

    I hope it wasn’t a spoiler, I too haven’t read the books and enjoy all the surprise twist. But it sounded like a spoiler to me, or at least way to detailed to be a prediction considering there was no evidence what happened to Winterfell or Theon’s men when they left the castle was surrounded by Stark allies one moment, but then burnt down with Bran and Rickon not seeing any allies as they fled.

    My own prediction was that Theon’s dad wanted him tortured under the suspicion that Theon only took Winterfell because he considers that his true home now.

  38. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    HellFell,

    No it’s not a spoiler as all of this information regarding has already been presented in the show. It just that some of it was merely spoken (Robb + Roose) or heard (horn blower at Winterfell). This isn’t TV for passive couch potatoes, often you’ve got to pay close attention and put the pieces of the puzzle together yourself. That’s half the fun!

    Hint: always pay close attention to raven messages and related discussions.

  39. Jen
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    Dana,

    In the books, it’s kind of known that Roose Bolton doesn’t have a lot of control over his crazy son / doesn’t always necessarily know what he’s done until after the fact.

  40. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    Dana,

    Just because something is written on a piece of paper doesn’t mean it’s true. In love and war, people lie. Everyone on this show has an agenda. Sometimes it’s high-minded, sometimes self-serving. Sometimes we are explicitly told what it is, sometimes we have to figure it out from clues we are given.

  41. Dana
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    Jen,

    I see!!!
    Interesting!
    I guess I will wait and see

  42. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear,

    1. Roose Bolton is a Stark bannerman. In fact, he is the most influential one.

    2. Bran et al. did not emerge from their hideout in the crawl space in Winterfell until they were convinced the coast was clear. By that time, both the Ironborn and the besieging troops had already packed up and left, so it’s not surprising none were in evidence. Everyone else was either dead or gone. The exception was Maester Luwin, who had dragged himself to the Godswood to die of his injuries.

  43. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin:
    HellFell,

    No it’s not a spoiler as all of this information regarding has already been presented in the show.

    Except the presumption that he was traded for safe passage, because they never indicated how Theon’s men might get out of Winterfell. It also isn’t indicated that they knew Theon was be a valuable trade, as far as those invaders knew there wasn’t a single raven that got away to tell people who it was that took Winterfell. And nothing in the show indicated that the surrounding forces would have left Winterfell unattended after getting their hands on Theon.

  44. Turncloak
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Love these recaps as well. From the reviews it looks like episodes 1 and 2 are mostly setup and episodes 3 and 4 are some of the best in the series. Can’t wait!

  45. Dana
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    I know that
    But it didnt make sense to me.
    Ive watched every episode of this show three times so far including last weeks. I do pay attention. I did not come to the same conclusion you did considering you say its not a spoiler.
    My conclusion was that Theon is being torotured by his people/ father – who knows

  46. Dana
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:25 pm | Permalink
  47. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear,

    1. Robb suggested exactly this trade to Roose Bolton, who was asking for permission to let his bastard son liberate Winterfell. Once given, he would would have relayed that by raven or courier. That’s how military chains of command work.

    2. The Ironborn knew full well they were outnumbered, that’s why they hit Theon over the head after his rousing speech. The implication was that they had already cut a deal with the besieging troops behind his back. They were nowhere near as loyal to him as his sister’s crews are to her.

    3. After all was set and done, there was no Winterfell left to attend to. No people, no property of any value.

  48. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    No spoilers, but are you implying that Bolton’s bastard took the situation into his own hands and he is the one holding Theon, essentially sending a raven to his father with a lie? It’s definitely a possibility, as we are unaware of the character of the bastard.

  49. enlace
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    very nice recap!

  50. Hexonx
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    Not a spoiler, clues from what has already been shown in the show but I will put under spoiler tags anyway:

    The Bolton sigil is a “flayed man” hanging on an X. Theon seems to be hanging from said X while being tortured. So it seems likely it is the Bolton’s that have him.

  51. Bruce Tyrell
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Speaking as one of the Sullied, I do enjoy reading the newbie commentaries. In the case of this episode, I think we book-readers still share your sense of scene overload. I still enjoyed the episode – Jaime/Brienne scenes probably my favorite, followed by Sansa/Lady Olenna – but it certainly was a crazy whirlwind and a lot to process.

  52. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    Dana: My conclusion was that Theon is being torotured by his people/ father – who knows

    1. Your conclusion implies that the Ironborn listened to Theon’s speech about a glorious suicide mission to fight their way out of Winterfell, then knocked him unconscious, put a bag over his head and then did exactly what he called for – minus the dying part. It takes hundreds of men to lay siege to a castle, how would they have pulled that off? They were outnumbered umpteen to one.

    2. Moreover, Winterfell is hundreds of miles from the coast (see map). With neither horses nor the element of surprise, how would they have made it back to the coast?

    3. Why would the Ironborn torture Theon to find out why he had attacked and sacked Winterfell? They already knew the boy was trying to make a name for himself with his father Balon.

    4. There has been no indication that the Ironborn engage in elaborate torture at all. They normally mount surprise raids on coastal villages, loot, rape & pillage and return home before the defenders can organize reinforcement. Torture takes time.

    5. Roose Bolton, on the other hand, advocated that Robb torture prisoners of war when he was introduced in the same scene as Talisa the hard-bitten field medic. Gregor “the Mountain” Clegane also used torture (rat buckets), but that was in Harrenhal.

    6. Circumstantial evidence: in the show, the soldiers of each House have distinctive clothes and armor. The folks torturing Theon wore bandages on their heads, which the Ironborn do not.

  53. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    But the implication that Theon’s troops cut a deal behind his back isn’t supported by anything we’ve seen in the show, considering the only communication we saw between the two factions was a horn getting blown. And that horn was being blown even up until Theon’s speech where he got knocked out, which doesn’t indicate that they a deal was cut and the psychological warfare wasn’t necessary anymore.

    And if a deal was cut, why would the Stark allies allow Winterfell to be burned? And why would Robb get a raven full of lies? Of course it’s possible, but the show hasn’t given us any reason to follow the rather long series of implications and assumptions you outline.

  54. Deez
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    Is it really that hard to follow??? Not to be rude but this just makes me feel like as a society we are pretty freaking dumb.

  55. greg
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    There’s a new 9 minute video on demand called “New Players”

  56. HellFell
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    The guy just read the books and now is messing with y’all :)

  57. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    At this point, we do not know if Roose Bolton’s bastard son followed specific instructions from his father or if he went beyond them on his own initiative. Being a bastard son, it’s conceivable he might have some daddy issues of his own. We simply don’t know yet.

    We do know that Roose has serious differences with Robb on military strategy and tactics, incl. on Cat’s release of Jaime. Until this episode, Robb also told Roose to leave whenever Talisa showed up so he probably can’t stand the girl. For their part, the Starks – like pretty much everyone else – find the Bolton practice of flaying prisoners extremely distasteful to say the least.

  58. HellFell
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    It’s hard to believe that an ally would question his liege lord military strategy and tactics when the said liege lord won every battle he led.

  59. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    1. No, it would imply they didn’t have to fight their way out at all. The show doesn’t indicate whether the Stark allies left before or after the Ironborn walked out of Winterfell with Theon.

    2. The Ironborn don’t have to make it back to the coast. If they didn’t have to fight their way out, they could leisurely walk to a private place for torturing Theon.

    3. We don’t know if the Ironborn (or Lord Greyjoy) take Theon at face value or suspect he views Winterfell fondly and took it for his own reasons.

    4. We don’t know much about the M.O. of the Ironborn. It has been said that do small raids, but we haven’t been told that they don’t use other tactics and don’t take prisoners with them for torture.

    Points 5 and 6 don’t really relate to what I’m saying. But in your reply to Oz you mention that the Starks and everyone else disapprove of the Bolton practice of flaying people, but I don’t think anybody in the show express an opinion about the practice. I don’t even think anybody said the Bolton’s do indeed flay people, just that they use a flayed man as their symbol (perhaps because it happened to one of them, much like a certain real world religion adopted the cross for reasons other than it being their preferred method of torture).

  60. Dan Spicer
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear,

    I guess what settles it for me was the comment one of the Ironborn made after thumpnig Theon on the melon; “Let’s go home.” Why would putting a bag on Theon’s head elicit a comment of “Let’s go Home,” other than they had a trade in the works for safe passage. Burning the place to the ground is a completely separate issue. Could have been the Ironborn right after they poked the maester, or the Northmen, but for either I can’t really find a “why?”

  61. greg
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Wow I just watched the video on demand that I previously posted about and its really helpful for a me (non book reader) to sort out the new characters and some Tully’s we haven’t even seen yet.

  62. Daggers in the Dark
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    A naked man has few secrets but a flayed man has none

  63. Azus
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    I know you have the best intentions, but I think you are confusing non-book readers with your conclusions. I’d recommend letting them speculate whether it is the Ironborn, the Boltons, or someone else entirely – it’s what makes watching the show fun for those that have not read the books.

    All will fall into place.

    Just wanted to let you know Oz, I love your recaps. As a book reader, I adore those that watch the show and can enjoy it for what it is – truly one of the best TV shows out there at the moment with an even better source material. Keep it up and speculate away!

  64. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer,

    I agree that burning Winterfell is a separate issue. Last season I assumed the Northmen did it, but now I have no idea if it was them or Ironborn or somebody else. Regardless, I don’t have a clue as to why it was done. I also don’t pretend to know why somebody would say “Let’s go home” without a trade in mind, but I can suspect they planned to avoid contact with the Northmen altogether as they headed home.

    I do like Hexonx‘s comment about the device Theon was attached to though.

  65. telobsidion
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    I’m finding it very difficult to believe that Nagga’s Kin hasn’t read the books . . . Just let the Unsullied speculate without leading them, geez.

  66. Mike Lane
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    its Warg, not Worg

  67. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    The correct answer to all of these questions related to Winterfell, Theon, et al, from a viewer of the show only (and I have read the books) would be this:

    1. Who is torturing Theon?
    We don’t know. Not yet. They’re not nice.

    2. Who burned Winterfell?
    We don’t know. We have not seen Winterfell since it was sacked. It’s hard to believe the 20 Ironborn who were there could have done it, given the troops outside.

    3. What does Robb know?
    He knows Winterfell was sacked. He knows Bran and Rickon are missing, and he has not heard anything from Theon. It is unclear who sent the raven that Roose Bolton brought to Robb. One clue that might have helped them – although clearly would not be a priority of someone sending a raven – is whether they’d found Hodor’s body, given Hodor would be hard to miss. But nobody’s asking about Hodor.

    4. Is anyone holding Winterfell?
    We don’t know. Robb’s only knowledge of Winterfell’s demise comes from that raven. We have not been given proof positive that anyone is indeed at Winterfell other than corpses.

    5. Hodor.
    Hodor.

  68. WompWomp
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer,

    We need more posts like this. Not “I’m a book reader, i love your recaps, and now I’m gonna enlighten the shit outta all of you whether you like it or not.”

  69. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin is evidently a book reader passing by a non-reader…I said it before and I say it again.

  70. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Azus:
    Nagga’s Kin,

    I know you have the best intentions, but I think you are confusing non-book readers with your conclusions. I’d recommend letting them speculate whether it is the Ironborn, the Boltons, or someone else entirely – it’s what makes watching the show fun for those that have not read the books.

    All will fall into place.

    Just wanted to let you know Oz, I love your recaps. As a book reader, I adore those that watch the show and can enjoy it for what it is – truly one of the best TV shows out there at the moment with an even better source material. Keep it up and speculate away!

    The thing is that he claims he’s a non-book reader, thats the whole issue…

  71. Richard
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear:
    Nagga’s Kin,

    But the implication that Theon’s troops cut a deal behind his back isn’t supported by anything we’ve seen in the show, considering the only communication we saw between the two factions was a horn getting blown. And that horn was being blown even up until Theon’s speech where he got knocked out, which doesn’t indicate that they a deal was cut and the psychological warfare wasn’t necessary anymore.

    And if a deal was cut, why would the Stark allies allow Winterfell to be burned? And why would Robb get a raven full of lies? Of course it’s possible, but the show hasn’t given us any reason to follow the rather long series of implications and assumptions you outline.

    Robb told Roose last season that it was OK to send Ramsey to Winterfell on the condition that they keep Theon alive so that Robb could deal with him personally, and to help with doing so, to tell the Ironborn there that they would be granted safe passage home if they gave up Theon. The deal cutting was “shown” by Theon being ambushed after his speech by his buddies and his First Mate saying “Let’s go home.” and they dragged Theon off and the audience assumes it’s to Ramsey so they can go home.

    But why Winterfell was set ablaze, I have no idea (I’m a non-book reader). I’ve watched the series three times now and did limited research online to avoid spoilers. Even if Ramsey is crazy and out of control, that’s going a little too far, and I would assume Robb and Catelyn would call him and Roose out on it. And yes I’m assuming Ramsey did it, I doubt the Ironborn did if they cut the deal and left.

  72. Mimsy
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer,

    I feel your pain. I had to sit thru the whole episode with my non reading husband.. that sounds funny… LOL… with his… Why doesn’t Brienne break Jaime’s arm so he cant fight her? Why doesn’t she break his leg? Why doesn’t she…. blah blah blah!!! Shut up already, I told him! Brienne can’t hurt Jaime cuz Sansa is still a prisoner.. so zip it! He was so blood thirsty when Brienne/Jaime came.. I don’t understand it.

    My favorite part of the night was when he invited our 9 year old to come give him a hug during Theon’s torture. That was classic! My death glare isn’t what it used to be I guess. I gotta work on that.

  73. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear:
    Nagga’s Kin,

    But the implication that Theon’s troops cut a deal behind his back isn’t supported by anything we’ve seen in the show, considering the only communication we saw between the two factions was a horn getting blown. And that horn was being blown even up until Theon’s speech where he got knocked out, which doesn’t indicate that they a deal was cut and the psychological warfare wasn’t necessary anymore.

    And if a deal was cut, why would the Stark allies allow Winterfell to be burned? And why would Robb get a raven full of lies? Of course it’s possible, but the show hasn’t given us any reason to follow the rather long series of implications and assumptions you outline.

    I agree that there was no explicit indication that a deal had been cut, but to my mind there is no other logical explanation for the behavior of the Ironborn. As for the horn, I cannot recall the exact point in time up to which is was active. In any case, Theon had been a ward of the Starks for over a decade, precisely to dissuade Balon Greyjoy from attacking the North again. The Ironborn know his royal blood makes him a valuable bargaining chip.

    As for burning Winterfell to the ground, just ask yourself how solid Robb’s alliance really is at this point. It’s been a long time since they crowned him King in the North. Between Ser Gregor Clegane’s strategic retreat from Harrenhal, harassment from the unaligned guerillas of the Brotherhood without Banners and the new alliance between the large Lannister and Tyrell armies currently in King’s Landing, you can see why young Robb Stark’s senior bannermen are now so critical of his leadership. If the North cannot win independence from Westeros quickly, it may never succeed.

    Compounding the external situation is growing concern about cohesion. Roose Bolton’s troops have been looking for Brienne + Jaime, whom they have now found. Lord Karstark has sharply criticized Robb’s decision to marry Talisa in spite of his oath to Lord Frey, who is bound to find out sooner rather than later. Note that the Freys had committed troops to Robb’s army.

    It’s not clear if Roose Bolton, apparently the most powerful Stark bannerman, is already actively undermining Robb. At the very least, his bastard son didn’t storm Winterfell to keep it from being destroyed. If he did brazenly burn it down himself, he’d want to blame the Ironborn to avoid a backlash against his father. Hence the lie.

  74. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin: I agree that there was no explicit indication that a deal had been cut, but to my mind there is no other logical explanation for the behavior of the Ironborn. As for the horn, I cannot recall the exact point in time up to which is was active. In any case, Theon had been a ward of the Starks for over a decade, precisely to dissuade Balon Greyjoy from attacking the North again. The Ironborn know his royal blood makes him a valuable bargaining chip.

    As for burning Winterfell to the ground, just ask yourself how solid Robb’s alliance really is at this point. It’s been a long time since they crowned him King in the North. Between Ser Gregor Clegane’s strategic retreat from Harrenhal, harassment from the unaligned guerillas of the Brotherhood without Banners and the new alliance between the large Lannister and Tyrell armies currently in King’s Landing, you can see why young Robb Stark’s senior bannermen are now so critical of his leadership. If the North cannot win independence from Westeros quickly, it may never succeed.

    Compounding the external situation is growing concern about cohesion. Roose Bolton’s troops have been looking for Brienne + Jaime, whom they have now found. Lord Karstark has sharply criticized Robb’s decision to marry Talisa in spite of his oath to Lord Frey, who is bound to find out sooner rather than later. Note that the Freys had committed troops to Robb’s army.

    It’s not clear if Roose Bolton, apparently the most powerful Stark bannerman, is already actively undermining Robb. At the very least, his bastard son didn’t storm Winterfell to keep it from being destroyed. If he did brazenly burn it down himself, he’d want to blame the Ironborn to avoid a backlash against his father. Hence the lie.

    Man stop pretending, a fast google search finds you in posts commenting about events that only happen in the books, like the chain, danny’s handmaidens, whitebeard, commenting in recaps for book readers etc…so either you read the books, or are very knowledgeable of what goes on in the through reading spoilers. Either way you’re spoiling the fun of the non-readers around here

  75. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    Making a false statement time and again does not make it true. You may not agree with my speculation, that’s fine. That’s why we have a discussion thread.

    However, your baseless ad hominem attacks are really out of line. I am fully aware of the rules on these threads and have no problem abiding by them *because I have not read the books*.

    Azus:
    Nagga’s Kin,

    I’d recommend letting them speculate whether it is the Ironborn, the Boltons, or someone else entirely.

    Guess what: I am one of “them”, so let me speculate. Why is it that book readers feel compelled to police this thread? By all means, lurk but hold your peace.

  76. Shaya Collins
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    I’m not sure what to make of “Dark Wings, Dark Words.” There were many dialogues and yet so little memorable moments that it felt even slower than the first episode. I don’t need non-stop, action-packed scenes – it’s all about the intensity – to be entertained but there was definitely some ‘spark’ missing.

    To me, the most enjoyable moment was Tyrion’s interaction with his mistress Shae. I really like seeing that vulnerable side of him and how much he seems to care about her. They are so cute together and always lighten a dark moment.

    King Joffrey was as laughable as always, and I cannot wait to find out whether Margaery wraps him around her little finger. She is a very intriguing character and hard to figure out so far. And Lady Olenna, her grandmother, is just fantastic. I loved her humor and sarcastic remarks. I really hope we’ll get to see more of her.

    I also have to say that Robb Stark is growing on me this season. There is something mysterious about him, something that makes me believe he only shares half of his thoughts and keeps the rest to himself. And, I’m sure there is so much more to explore about his character.

    All in all, a good episode that I liked and enjoyed but considered easily forgettable.

  77. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin:
    Pau Soriano,

    Making a false statement time and again does not make it true. You may not agree with my speculation, that’s fine. That’s why we have a discussion thread.

    However, your baseless ad hominem attacks are really out of line. I am fully aware of the rules on these threads and have no problem abiding by them *because I have not read the books*.

    Guess what: I am one of “them”, so let me speculate. Why is it that book readers feel compelled to police this thread? By all means, lurk but hold your peace.

    I just saw you commenting on 2012′s posts about the chain, about whitbeard, about dany’s handmaiden, about Bolton’s Bastard, on threads that were discussing book events etc…who are you trying to fool?

  78. Davidbc
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Yea, I’d say it is pretty much a given that Theon is a Bolton prisoner…

    HAVE YOU SEEN THEIR SIGIL!?

  79. Vlad
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Seriously, I’m gonna stop visiting this place, although I like it very much.

    So, as far as I know, this is the ONLY weekly post for non-book readers who can thus discuss freely without someone spoiling the s**t out of the show, but hey, I guess some people still like to pretend that they are geniuses by organizing a spoiler galore event.

    I would recommend a more strict policy regarding newbie recaps, of course, if this site wants to represents itself as a GoT site. If not, there should be a warning that this site is only about the books.

  80. TH3WICK3D1
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    GreatJon of Slumber:
    3. What does Robb know?
    He knows Winterfell was sacked. He knows Bran and Rickon are missing, and he has not heard anything from Theon. It is unclear who sent the raven that Roose Bolton brought to Robb. One clue that might have helped them – although clearly would not be a priority of someone sending a raven – is whether they’d found Hodor’s body, given Hodor would be hard to miss. But nobody’s asking about Hodor.

    We do know who sent it. T’was Ramsay himself.

    http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/893659_487605361289221_1686841276_o.jpg

  81. telobsidiin
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano: The thing is that he claims he’s a non-book reader, thats the whole issue…

    Pau Soriano,

    I thought I remembered that. He posted in book reader recaps. Also, the username with “Nagga” just screams book reader anyway.

  82. Ser Hodor Halfmast
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    Hodor?

    Ho! Dor! Ho! Dor!

    Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodor!

    Hodor!!!

  83. Steven Swanson
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Sugaree:
    predat0rian,

    Jaime is weakend by his life of capture and near starvation for many many months. This is expressed well in the books but the writers of the show did not express this well enough for non book readers to understand.

    Jaime did say last season that they’d been moving him from camp to camp for a long time, though can’t remember if he was more specific.

    The lack of specificity regarding the passage of time is a little frustrating on this show, but what I would tell any non-readers is that just assume that time is going much more slowly than you think it is (and the distances traveled are longer than you think they are). The linear, compressed nature of a tv series makes it seem like things are happening more quickly than they actually are, and that different storylines are happening simultaneously when they might not actually be.

  84. duhr
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

    The mods here aren’t doing a good job.

  85. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

    This is PATHETIC guys.

    Actually ashamed of my book reading brethren for spoiling the experience for so many non-readers. When I read the books, I liked to put all the pieces together myself. It would have ruined it if a friend had interjected every 10 pages or so with a supposedly witty clue as to what’s really going on.

    My advice to non-book readers is to simply not read anything online. Unfortunately nowhere is safe and it’s not worth risking getting spoiled about future events.

  86. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    TH3WICK3D1,

    Ah, yeah, well…can’t see that while watching the TV show itself…

  87. Gatorfisch
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear:
    predat0rian,

    The Kingslayer may be the best swordsman in the realm, but Brienne already defeated the second best: The Knight of Flowers. Jaime already told her there were only a handful of men who could beat him, and I’m sure she knew he was talking about Loras and chose not to mention that beating him in a tourney is how Lady Stark first encountered her.

    Book reader here…but this is not a spoiler. Jaime was not referring to Loras when he said there were only a few men who could beat him. He meant the Mountain, maybe the Hound, and Barristan Selmy. Jaime’s hands were still tied during the fight and he had been a prisoner for months. Having said that, Brienne is a good match for him…and he did underestimate her.

  88. Storm of S words
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    I think the non-book reader comment areas like this one seriously need a moderator who has to approve posts before they’re posted, to intercept spoilers. Gotta shoot down those ravens.

  89. Patchy Face
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    Hey -Idea! If you’re a book reader, just do NOT post here. We all know how smart you are so get over yourself and don’t spoil for others.

  90. Hal
    Posted April 8, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    It would be insanely dochey for someone to pretend they didn’t read the books.

  91. JamesL
    Posted April 9, 2013 at 2:58 am | Permalink

    I’m not sure why WIC doesn’t just ban book readers from commenting on the newbie recaps, therefore it could be like the TWOP forums where nonreaders go to discuss the show. Now I know it wouldnt stop all the book readers from comments but I know it would cut it down a lot if WIC were to type at the bottom of the recap “NO BOOK READER COMMENTS”. This should be nonreader only comment section.

  92. Mjoed
    Posted April 9, 2013 at 3:54 am | Permalink

    what should WiC do? just delete everything thats going in the right direction? there’s simply no way of telling if someone is just pretty good at connecting or pretending. of course, sometimes it’s pretty obvious…

    oh, and just fyi – the REAL spoilers are the “you are a book reader, right? theres NOOO way you geht this ALL right (EVERYTHING HE SAYS IS RIGHT GUYS, JUST SAYING, dear, a confirmed bookreader!)” posts, just stop them.

  93. TH3WICK3D1
    Posted April 9, 2013 at 5:48 am | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    haha yeah don’t sweat it, also Robb, in his dialogue with Catelyn, says implies Roose’s son sent it.

    “By the time Bolton’s bastard got to Winterfell, the ironborn were gone. They massacred everyone and put the castle to the torch.”

    (S03E02 [07:27])

  94. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 9, 2013 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    We have that exact disclaimer up.

    No one is physically banned from particular posts, but we will enforce the spoiler policy and the disclaimer strictly.

  95. Andy G.
    Posted April 9, 2013 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    predat0rian,

    Not really. He had his hands in shackles.

  96. Valyrian
    Posted April 9, 2013 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin:
    It’s not clear if Roose Bolton, apparently the most powerful Stark bannerman, is already actively undermining Robb.

    I AM SORRY, but your already
    betrayed you honey.

    Great recap Oz!

  97. Valyrian
    Posted April 9, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,
    It is, but sometimes people have no talent in real life, so showing someone you read a book they didn’t is their greatest achievement in life.

    Hal,
    I have a friend who swears to God he’s spoiler-free but he’s always “OMG SO CERTAIN X AND Y WILL DIE”. I think he takes pleasure in posing as a some sort of psychic who can only guess right.

  98. dana
    Posted April 9, 2013 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    I agree, there should be more rules for non-book reader posts.

    I like to discuss the show and read other peoples speculations without having the show ruined.

    Oh well

  99. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted April 9, 2013 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer:
    My wife is also a non-book reader, and here are her general comments.“where is Theon?” ” How come they didn’t show Theon in ‘Previously on Game of Thrones’ segment before the credits?How was I supposed to remember where he was last?”“Ewwwwww…that’s gross, but I guess he deserves it.Ewwwwww, stop, I know he deserves it, but…”“That’s the Hound! That’s the Hound!”“Who are these new kids?Are they going to hurt Bran?They better not hurt Bran, I’m never watching this show again if they kill Bran.”“Where did the little kid go?”Why don’t they care if he runs off?Is he gonna get killed?I’m never watching this show again if they kill that little kid.I guess that’s Robb’s wolf?What happend to Arya’s wolf?How come that old guy doesn’t like Robb’s wife?How come Sansa’s not being tortured like Theon?What are they going to do with her?Are they going to kill her?Ifsomeone has to get killed I guess she can, but they better not kill the little girl, Arya.I’ll be so pissed if she gets killed, and you won’t be allowed to watch this show anymore.I’ll cancelHBO if Arya gets killed. ”Fun times on the couch on Sunday nights… Ha!

    Lolz! A woman had similar feelings the first season, it’s incredible how much these characters get into your heart and make you care – a testament to the awesome writing, story, acting, and overall production don’t you think? Maybe it has taken a few years to happen, but GRRM shall be remembered as among our generation’s best fantasy writers, it is known!

  100. Kanga
    Posted April 9, 2013 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    I’m enjoying your posts, but I would be interested to hear a little less recap of what happened and more of your thoughts on the episodes? Great job so far!

  101. Liz B.
    Posted April 9, 2013 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer,

    That was wonderfully entertaining! How adorable!

  102. reza
    Posted April 10, 2013 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    May i ask , how can i see this episode online (or download it) ? i’m not in US.

  103. Mubashir
    Posted April 12, 2013 at 5:03 am | Permalink

    Game of Thrones Clicks a fun android app for Game of thrones fans http://goo.gl/CVSCu

  104. Drunken Fool
    Posted April 12, 2013 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    I think you are a book reader based off of your chosen user name. I don’t really believe in coincidence and that name is yet to be referenced in the show but is a name that is relevant to the Iron Born in AFFC…

  105. Bittersteel914
    Posted April 13, 2013 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Drunken Fool:
    Nagga’s Kin,

    I think you are a book reader based off of your chosen user name.I don’t really believe in coincidence and that name is yet to be referenced in the show but is a name that is relevant to the Iron Born in AFFC…

    Speak for yourself, Drunken Fool…back in ’98, I adopted a puppy and named him ‘Tycho Nestoris’…you could imagine my surprise when i picked up ADWD…

    Also…love reading your Recaps, Oz…i am a book reader and find them very refreshing!

  1. [...] the comments will contain spoilers. If you haven’t read ASoS yet, you can discuss this episode in our non-book reader recap. [...]

  2. [...] inciting a small riot on the comment section of Ep. 22 Newbie Recap here, beating this dead octopus may be a bad idea.  But here is what we know for [...]


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