Episode 23 – Walk of Punishment – Newbie Recap
By Winter Is Coming on in Recap.

Jaime in chains

After an episode capper like that, it is always fun to see the show-only viewer’s reactions. Our newbie recapper Oz of Thrones shares his thoughts on last night’s episode, after the break.

Spoiler note: The discussion in this post is primarily for non-book readers (book fans can discuss the show here). We ask all the series veterans to refrain from posting spoilers in the comments here, veiled or otherwise. This show is best viewed without knowing all the surprises beforehand, so please be respectful of your fellow fans. Thank you!

Oz of Thrones: Hello all Unsullied and Sullied from myself and the inhabitants of House Oz. Episode 23 has come and gone, and it did not disappoint. This one was entitled “Walk of Punishment”, but may have been better suited to something along the lines of “Things Lost in Westeros” as we were subjected to an uncanny amount of loss in this installment. These losses include, but may or may not be limited to, the following: a Tully, a Master of Coin; a Pie, a lot of Crows, a band of Torturers, a Red Snatch, Podrick’s virginity, a dragon (presumably), and a hand (definitely).

Let us cover them one by one. And to the Sullied, please remember that we, the Unsullied non-book reader, know nothing about what is coming (other than Winter). Comment away, but may you please not spoil us. We will discuss, speculate, and make mostly uneducated guesses of things to come.

Loss of a Tully: We join the Stark clan in Riverrun at the funeral of Hoster Tully, where Anguy (the marksman that almost shot Hot Pie in the head last week) is NOT the person attempting to light the funeral boat on fire with a flaming arrow, but rather a Tully named Edmure. Another Tully (who we would find out later is a badass called “Blackfish”) yanks the bow away and successfully shoots the flaming arrow setting the boat ablaze, and never even has to look back to see that he nails his target. Robb later confronts Edmure about disobeying orders regarding the Mountain and capturing a couple of insignificant Lannister relatives. The Blackfish consoles Cat about losing Bran and Rickon reminding her that they don’t know for sure if they are dead.

Loss of a Master of Coin (but gaining a new one): A counsel meeting is attended by Tywin, Tyrion, Cersei, Littlefinger, Pycell, and the return of Varys (who consequently suffers from a loss of manhood from years ago). Littlefinger is ordered to give up his post as Master of Coin to wed Lysa Arryn, which opens the door for the exciting return of the 10 year old breast-feeding boy. Awesome! (Ozzette thinks I am sick). Tyrion is named the new Master of Coin. Hear Hear.

Loss of a Pie: It seems this may be the last time I get to effectively use “ArGenPie”, as Pie decides not to travel on with Arya, Gendry, and the BwB, but remain behind to be a glorious bread maker. It is unclear as to where they are traveling to, but the Hound is along for the ride as well. But not Pie. A man will miss Pie. Pie is good. Goodbye Pie.

Loss of a lot of Crows: Mance and Jon Snow, among others, come upon a circular pattern of horse heads and carcasses with none of the deceased Night’s Watch to be found. Assuming those men are now part of the White Walkers army, Mance commands Tormund, accompanied by Jon Snow, Orell, and 20 men, to climb the wall on his signal. Meanwhile, Mormont and the exhausted Crows stop at Craster’s for rest and a presumably a meal. Sam, who can’t seem to escape the Beyond the Wall bullying, gets yet another dose from Craster about his weight. Sam walks out and comes up on a tent where Gilly is giving birth to a baby boy.

Loss of a Torturer: Theon is set free by an unnamed man and is told to ride east where Yara is waiting on him. Later, the captors catch up with Theon and are about to check his prostate (I assume), but instead get a poking of their own.

Loss of the Red Snatch: Stannis is seen asking the Red Woman where she is going and when she will be back. He wants another son, but is turned down by the Red Woman because she states that Stannis does not have the strength and that it would kill him (or maybe, she just has a headache). Apparently magic has some limits, and there must be sacrifices.

Loss of a Dragon: Dany negotiates buying the Unsullied, and wants all 8,000 of them. However, she does not have enough gold to buy them all, so she offers a dragon to the foul mouthed slave trader, Krazyns (sp?). It will be interesting to see if this transaction actually goes through.

Loss of Virginity: Tyrion owes a debt of gratitude to Podrick for saving his life. As Pod looks to be wanting to order “Rack of Ros” off of Littlefinger’s menu, Tyrion sets up a buffet of naked Cirque Di Soleil performers for him. Saving Tyrion’s life has its advantages. But why was the money returned? Did Littlefinger pick up the tab, or was Pod just too fast to justify charging him?

Loss of a Hand: Jaime and Brienne are held at the camp of Locke and his men. As they prepare to have their way with Brienne, Jaime offers sapphires to Locke and Brienne is safely returned to the camp. But when Jamie starts discussing his father, his use of fancy words, and the land and gold he would give for his safe return, it apparently strikes a nerve with Locke, and he punishes Jaime. The hand of the Kings’ son no longer has a hand.

Episode 303 Personal Awards
Favorite Scene: Tough call, as the whole episode was solid. Tie between Mance and the Wildlings finding the horse waste and ordering the attack on the wall; and of course, Jaime and Locke.
Favorite Serious Quote: “When its time I’m going to light the biggest fire the north has ever seen.” -Mance Rayder (this, of course, was in the previews of the season. But put into context of the episode, it was classic).
Favorite Not-So-Serious Quote: “Marei is quite the spear handler herself” –Tyrion introducing one of the lovely brothel employees to Podrick
Ow, That Shit Hurts Award: The loss of a hand……. The examination of Theon’s rear probably would have been a close second had it happened.

Closing Thoughts: Outstanding 53 minutes of television, and one I will definitely view again for a late week post. I was shocked at the Ginsu knife demonstration on Jaime’s hand, without a doubt. But maybe the most shocking was that Dany was willing to give up her biggest dragon for the 7,877 Unsullied she couldn’t pay for (hey, we are worth it, right?). As I mentioned last week in my Looking Forward Ep. 23 here, I was very intrigued to see Noah Taylor (Locke) bring his acting style to GoT, and man did he bring it. This guy can pull of anything. We also found out that Jaime does indeed have some sentiment for the well-being of Brienne. I can only wonder how his new problem will affect him.

Off Topic: Being way ahead of the times as I am with all technological advances, a man is considering opening a Twitter account. Would you recommend it? Do you enjoy it? Any advice? Would you follow Oz?

Please respect the Unsullied. Comments welcome. Spoilery not.

Be on the lookout for Looking Forward Ep. 24 for Non-Book Readers on Thursday or Friday, and until then, may there be peace in your realm. -Oz


111 Comments

  1. coronaking
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    Hodor!

    And no thoughts on the credits song?
    It seems to be a quite controversial choice. ;)

  2. thisone
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    I have signed their book. The old way, in blood.

  3. Andy Gavin (@asgavin
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    This episode has some great Martinesque moments — the man knows how to make his characters suffer — and hands off to Weiss and Benioff for pulling off the last scene so deftly. They really know how to fray our nerves and cut to the bone. Hehe. I also really enjoyed the ever increasing scope (and budget) of the location shots. The views of Riverrun and of Astapor were fantastic, plus lots of good character development — not to mention some GOT classic gratuitous nudity. In any case, you can find my more detailed thoughts on this episode on my blog as usual.

  4. Targaryen
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Jamie Lannister has gone soft. This is the guy who kicked off the entire war of the seven kingdoms.
    1st he pushed Bran Stark out of the window.
    Before that killed the Mad King
    Killed his own soldier who stabbed Ned Stark in the leg when they were fighting
    Killed his own cousin to escape
    But he saves Brienne (sp?) of Tarth from getting raped and possibly killed? Jamie was supposed to be one of the true bad guys in the show. I need for him to still be bad.

  5. GG
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Would def recommend not getting a Twitter account, Oz. You just know some douche out there, once they realize you’re an Unsullied, will make great effort to Sully you. For your own enjoyment, stay far far away.

    What did you think of “The Bear and the Maiden Fair” in the credits?

  6. MockingTheFlayedLion
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    If you are thinking about opening a Twitter account, know this. A lot of people expect you to follow them back if they follow you. And some of those people’s tweets will most likely be uninteresting to say the least. I personally don’t tweet so my following/followers ratio is unsurprisingly low. And yes, I would follow you Oz. That reminds me, I have only 4 episodes left of HBO’s Oz. It’s no GoT, but it’s still HBO.

  7. GG
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Targaryen,

    If you honestly think Jaime was an out and out bad guy, I think you need to rewatch a few eps from the series, especially s2ep7.

  8. Drew
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    What do we think about the idea that GoT sucks at “quest” plotlines — basically anytime anyone has to *go* anywhere and do something? Floated in The Atlantic’s recap: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/04/-i-game-of-thrones-i-s-problem-with-quests/274909/

  9. msd
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    You won’t stay unsullied for long on Twitter, I fear.

  10. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    GG,

    Thanks for the insight on Twitter!

    I did not know that the credit song had caused such an uproar, as I try to stay far far away from any spoilery country. But did I notice it? Yes. It was not a dislike for the style of the song necessarily, but I did feel like it took away from the drama of the moment when Jaime’s hand was chopped. It was a deep polar opposite emotion… the “holy shit” of the hand laying on the table, then immediately being thrust into a mosh pit.

    But did it ruin the episode for me?…. hell to the no.

  11. Jen
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    I think the thing about Jaime is that he was never really a bad guy, he just rarely thinks things through. He’s more of an “action first” kind of guy. There are only a few times in his life where he’s really given things THOUGHT – when he killed the mad king was one of those times

  12. Eric
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Watching Danny give up the dragon reminds me of the scene in the preview where the Dragon burning up the wall behind her. Somehow I’m guessing she both understands the language of the slave trader (look how quickly she picked up Dothraki) and is planning to betray him (via a call to the dragon to burn down the city). She seems thoroughly disgusted with the city so I wouldn’t be surprised.

  13. Mt
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    Targaryen:
    Jamie Lannister has gone soft. This is the guy who kicked off the entire war of the seven kingdoms.
    1st he pushed Bran Stark out of the window.
    Before that killed the Mad King
    Killed his own soldier who stabbed Ned Stark in the leg when they were fighting
    Killed his own cousin to escape
    But he saves Brienne (sp?) of Tarth from getting raped and possibly killed? Jamie was supposed to be one of the true bad guys in the show. I need for him to still be bad.

    Then you won’t want to see the rest of the season

  14. Strepsi
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    Reading the new recaps. I do have one small quibble with the Game of Thrones writing, which is that they could be clearer. It was not clear who Rob was hoping to draw out — The Hound, The Mountain, or Tywin — and referring to him as a “mad dog” did not help…

    Tyrion could remind us that he has been at the Eyrie and met Lysa Aryn before (she damn near dropped him 8,000 feet)

    And I know it’s a little on-the-nose, but a scene with Cat saying “Hello my brothers, sad our dad is dead” would help clarify a lot, know what I mean?

    These are the elements the people I was watching with were confused the hell out of.

    One thing JK Rowling did so well was recap in a natrual way what came before – -I am not aksing the writers to spoon-feed us, but they could be a *touch* more clear…

  15. Liam
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    I honestly thought this episode was very well done. There was alot of humor in this episode which was good to see, like Pod the sex god. I actually felt that the end credits worked well with what had just happened. The episode is a 10/10 for me.

  16. Shaya Collins
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    I gave “Walk of Punishment” 3 out of 5 stars because it was an average episode that entertained me just enough to continue watching until the end.

    I really liked the unexpected moments such as Daenerys giving away one of her precious dragons, Theon being rescued by the mysterious “boy” and Jamie getting his hand cut off. These were great and made the episode for me!

    Other bits I enjoyed were Robb Stark’s scenes as he’s unexpectedly growing on me this season, Tyrion and Bronn (I love these two together) “investigating” the inexperienced squire about his time with the three beautiful whores who didn’t want to get paid, and Jaime and Brienne tied together on a horse (they share a wonderful on-screen chemistry).

    As for the things I didn’t like, I’d have to say anything Catelyn Stark. Since the beginning I couldn’t stand her – she’s my least favorite character mostly because of her cold-hearted attitude towards Jon Snow, and also because she constantly seems to pity herself – so I’m always glad when I don’t have to see her frustrated face. I also could have done without the macabre horse heads but I know it’s part of the show and its realistic approach to those cruel times back then.

    All in all, a decent episode but not one that I would want to watch over and over again. I’m SO looking forward to more Jon Snow as his story line started out very slow this season, and I hope it’s true that the best is yet to come for him.

    P.S.: The punk rock song played during the end credits threw me off for a second but I loved that surprising change of music.

  17. Mitch
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    You seem to have missed the joking implication that Podrick is hung like a horse. Either that or somehow great in bed, but definitely not too fast.

  18. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    Here’s an open question. Other than Joffrey, is there a character on this show that is more odious and awful than Craster (aka, the guy who lives north of the Wall with his 20+ inbred wives/daughters)? He’s got some competition now with Kraznys for sure, and the Mountain is awful too (but his awfulness so far has been more implied than anything else).

    Just curious opinions from the Unsullied. As a book reader I once again remain an admirer of the recaps here and like having the discussions.

    (Also, for
    Strepsi, the answer to that question is The Mountain. He is Tywin’s “mad dog.” It’s fair to have the confusion between him and the Hound, though of course the Hound is no longer commanding forces and has gone rogue, as the show has made clear.)

  19. Just Tony
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    As one whom you refer to as “sullied”, I commend you for having a forum where those who have not read the books can have a place to speculate and discuss what you love most about Westeros and beyond. Having read all the books since the beginning, there is nothing I
    enjoy more than watching the series with those who have not. I enjoy their shock
    and amazement with each episode. There is nothing I despise more on other forms of discussion, where someone spouts off a spoiler just to show off their ability
    to have read a book or two. Keep up the great work! And enjoy what’s to come. As I have told those around me, this season will BLOW YOUR MINDS!

  20. Targaryen
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    GG,

    Well one episode isn’t going to change his acts of cruelty. Maybe he has a moment of clarity now with Brienne and he is changing his heart.

  21. Targaryen
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    Mt,

    OH NO SPOILER!!!

  22. Suzaku
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    Strepsi:
    Reading the new recaps. I do have one smallquibble with the Game of Thrones writing, which is that they could be clearer.It was not clear who Rob was hoping to draw out — The Hound, The Mountain, or Tywin — and referring to him as a “mad dog” did not help…

    Edmure and Robb both specifically refer to him as the Mountain in two almost back-to-back lines of dialogue, and “Tywin’s mad dog” is a common nickname for the Mountain.

  23. greg
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Oh man that guy is back plugging his blog in every post again like last year lol.

  24. RooseB182
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    GreatJon of Slumber,

    Ha ha, yes those characters are rather unsavoury, but if you think they are bad then just wait until later on in the series, if anything they are pretty tame compared to one particular person who I class as the only truly evil/ borderline psychopathic character so far. (if you have read the books then you’ll know who I’m talking about)

  25. lebaf.
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    oz, you never told us you were a doctor…’red snatch’ is there proper medical term.

  26. GG
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    I think most people liked it. It was just totally inappropriate after what just happened 5 secs earlier. They should have played the normal cedit music for the first 20 secs of the credits and then gone into B&tMF

    Agreed though. Did not ruin the ep in the slightest :)

  27. dmf
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    Strepsi,
    Brynden (Blackfish) is Cat’s uncle, not her brother, and he is the late Hoster Tully’s brother. Edmure is her younger brother.

  28. ObieMartell
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Strepsi,

    The two characters you meet at Riverrun are Edmure Tully, Catelyn’s brother, and the other character is Brynden “Blackfish” Tully her uncle. Just wanted to clear that up so you can more readily enjoy the upcoming episodes.

  29. Richard
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    the “sex god Podrick” thing I’ve figured out (based on reading a lot of thoughts since last night on various boards and watching the episodes twice). From Ros showing her cleavage to the whores not accepting the money to Bronn/Tyrion acting in disbelief about it… all of it was pre-paid by Tyrion to give Podrick the ultimate experience or “reality” (like Sean Penn did for Michael Douglas in THE GAME) as a reward for saving Tyrion’s life.

  30. Wrath of the Gods
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Favorite quote: “I wish I had known him… but he was not the last dragon.”

    This is HER season, people.

  31. corbob
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    Twitter is bad for spoilers. Might not want to.

  32. Rfresa
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    Any non-book readers notice “Valar Morghulis”, and where you’ve heard it before?

  33. Peter
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    Strepsi,

    Robb was trying to draw out the Mountain (Gregor Clegane), who is roaming the countryside and raiding villages. “Mad dog” refers to the Clegane sigil which is 3 black hounds on a yellow background.

    The Hound (Sandor Clegane) is of course no longer in Lannister service (“F*ck the King”).

    Agreed that they don’t make it all that clear.

  34. Aoife
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    Loss of the Red Snatch

    How charming, Oz.

    Although it goes to show that the main thing that is important about the female characters in this show (especially after *THIS* particular episode with Pod’s brothel adventures) is their crotch, am I right? We are reminded about this time and time again. Beaten over the head with it, if you will. Or should I say snatch/crotch?

    *EYE ROLL*

  35. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    RooseB182,

    Thanks man. And yeah, I have read. But I’m trying to limit myself to discussing what I’ve seen visually, and based on character attributes and attitudes, so far in terms of pure, unadulterated awfulness, I’d rank ‘em thus:

    1. Joffrey
    2. Craster
    3. Kraznys
    4. The Mountain (his deeds are much worse, but we can only go on what we see)
    5. Cersei
    6. Meryn Trant (a big, lumbering oaf who likes to hit girls)
    7. Littlefinger

  36. Jason
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    MustangJeff:
    Great episode.Thanks for the recap.Non book reader here, and wanted to post a few thoughts and some speculations.

    I’m finding the Dany storyline very interesting.I can’t believe she is even considering giving up one of her dragons, and I definitely think she has a plan to get the slave army without giving a dragon up.Maybe it’s just me, but I have this sneaking suspicion that Dany knows exactly what Krazyns is saying, but not letting on.Maybe she isn’t so much giving a dragon to Krazyns, but giving Krazyns to a dragon?

    Another inkling I have is that we’ll see Jon Snow unite Mance and Mormont against a common foe.At this point is seems counter productive for the wildlings and crows to fight each other.The enemy of my enemy is my friend seems to apply here by the truckload.

    Bold predictions.

  37. RooseB182
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    GreatJon of Slumber,

    Yeah, that’s understandable and I have to agree 100% with those characters in that order (in the TV series anyway) but I would add Alliser Thorne to the bottom just for good measure.

  38. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    Aoife,

    This was not meant to be offensive, whatsoever. The reference dates back to an earlier post I did regarding Stannis and the power the Red Woman seems to have over him, especially when he throws his most trusted man, Davos, into the Dragonstone Inn dungeons. All in fun, and no knock on the great women of Westeros or the great women readers of this site.

  39. Hexonx
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Just to clarify a few things, Hot Pie didn’t decide to stay behind. The Innkeeper asked for him as payment for all the food provided for the BwB. We should be happy for him though. It is probably safer for him at an Inn than on the road with Arya & the BwB or as a member of the Night’s Watch (where he was initially heading).

    Also, the Wildling special forces group is to climb the wall before Mance’s signal. The signal is for them to attack Castle Black from south of the Wall. Mance tells Orell to send his eagle up every night (so he can see over the wall for the signal).

  40. Crush King
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    I figgin hate these song covers! I like the songs to be sung, acapella style. Im def. not a fan of either cover ive heard.

  41. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    RooseB182,

    Ah, good call. Yes, Alliser Thorne is a noted shitbird.

    Hexonx,

    True. But as one reviewer wrote: “Congratulations Hot Pie! You managed to exit the story without being raped and with all of your limbs!”

  42. Melinda_O
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    I totally enjoy reading the unsullied reactions to my favorite escape from reality. I will admit that I am a totally sullied book-reader and will only say to remember, as in life, circumstances and intent can change in the blink of an eye… As for the final song, “The Bear and the Maiden Fair,” I don’t think it spoils anything to say that in the mythology of Westeros, it is a popular tune of the day.

  43. saluk
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    Aoife: How charming, Oz.

    Although it goes to show that the main thing that is important about the female characters in this show (especially after *THIS* particular episode with Pod’s brothel adventures) is their crotch, am I right?We are reminded about this time and time again.Beaten over the head with it, if you will.Or should I say snatch/crotch?

    *EYE ROLL*

    Correction – the main thing that is important about most of the female characters TO MOST OF THE MALE characters is their crotch. Tyrion and Bronn are both whoremongers :P Tyrion is a little reformed for himself but this was a perfectly plausible way he would think of to give Pod a gift.

  44. Trent
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    Aoife,

    I too was a bit struck by Oz’ use of that term– maybe the offensiveness of that term varies?

    But as for the show, I think one of the great things about it is how many strong female characters there are– despite living in an era/locale where yes, females are not valued by many beyond reproductive and/or sexual aspects. Arya, Cat, Brienne, Yara, Jojen’s sister (can’t remember her name), Melisandre, even Cersei– all strong and intelligent. Heck, even the prostitutes (Ros, Shae in particular) are shown to be intelligent and strong. Most of the people “beating [us] over the head with it” as you say are not the sympathetic characters, but are perhaps typical for their time.

    So I guess I’d hope you differentiate between what the men of their times are saying compared to what the series itself is pushing forward as women’s “most important things.”

  45. Chneurf
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    I want to talk a little on Dany offering a Dragon.

    Didn’t read the book and I have no idea if what I’m saying is a spoiler but here few facts

    Dany didn’t really like the slavery thing going on. We saw her on a scene trying to help one but he was asking to die cause there is no master after death !! On another scene, she ask twice and make sure that those soldier only obey to their master. Whatever is the order !!! Why she put the girl/ translator in the deal ?? We will have the answer soon… Offering a dragon to pay for the rest of the mindless soldier seem crazy but just think of it. The dragon is just a bait; a big bait. Once the deal done, that city will be defenceless and it will be the right moment to free the city from the slaver and take back her lost dragon with those soldier.

    Nothing will stop her !!

  46. Aoife
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    Thank you for the clarification. This site (especially in the comments) is not necessarily the friendliest place for a female viewer, though.

  47. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Trent,

    To Trent, Aoife, and whomever may be even slightly offended by the term, please see the link here so you can see the original use in it’s context. It was merely a joke on the power of the Red Woman over Jackass Baratheon. Trust me, if I had some type of arrogant, men- are-more-substantial-than-thou attitude, Ozzette would have booted me a long time ago.

  48. Red
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    MustangJeff:
    Great episode.Thanks for the recap.Non book reader here, and wanted to post a few thoughts and some speculations.

    I’m finding the Dany storyline very interesting.I can’t believe she is even considering giving up one of her dragons, and I definitely think she has a plan to get the slave army without giving a dragon up.Maybe it’s just me, but I have this sneaking suspicion that Dany knows exactly what Krazyns is saying, but not letting on.Maybe she isn’t so much giving a dragon to Krazyns, but giving Krazyns to a dragon?

    Another inkling I have is that we’ll see Jon Snow unite Mance and Mormont against a common foe.At this point is seems counter productive for the wildlings and crows to fight each other.The enemy of my enemy is my friend seems to apply here by the truckload.

    Here is what I think. Remember when Dany lost her dragons at Q’art (I forgot how to spell it), and went ape about it? So, she is not going to trade a dragon. I glanced through the comments here, trying to dodge spoilers, so I’m sorry if this theory is already brought up, but if not, here it is:

    I think she says “Fine, here is a dragon. I hate what you do to train these guys, so I’m taking the lot with me, I’m then going to recall my dragon, and before he leaves, he’s going to eat baldy roast”. When I think back, ever since the Dotrakhi abandoned her on S1, and left her with the weaklings and such, she’s had a cheesy kind heart. So, I think she’s going to keep the last of the unsullied with her. And three dragons at her side.

    On Jaime losing his hand, I was really hoping he was the Hand of the King and not his father. How’s that for dark humor?

    I wonder where are the guys with no flag, or whatever they’re called, taking Aria. I thought she was going to either go to Braavos or to Winterfell. One would think she knows by now that Winterfell is gone.

    Jon’s storyline continues to be full of cheese and I’m sorry about that, because he had such good character foundation. So yeah, as you say, he probably will end up joining crows and the men of the north. Unfortunately, there is that spoiler in the HBO commercial for GoT that indicates that the cheese in Jon’s story is yet to continue.

    Who’s the guy who saved Theon? Not the same who freed him, was he?

    And finally, go Podrick, and his podrick full of podrick. I am rooting for him :)

  49. Dragolf
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    I’d advise against a Twitter if only to avoid spoilers.

  50. liveindreams
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Is it just me or is the show’s Mance Rayder portrayed as a rather grumpy guy? And where’s Dalla? How are they going to solve the whole baby-switching phase?

  51. Aoife
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    saluk: Correction – the main thing that is important about most of the female characters TO MOST OF THE MALE characters is their crotch. Tyrion and Bronn are both whoremongers :P Tyrion is a little reformed for himself but this was a perfectly plausible way he would think of to give Pod a gift.

    But is Stannis a whoremonger? Does he frequent brothels? There is more to be said about the Melisandre (i.e. the “Red Snatch” in this instance) and Stannis dynamic in the show, but it’s probably not appropriate for this Unsullied entry, since that delves into book territory and characterization. And if someone tries to argue that TV!Stannis is just like Book!Stannis, I am going to assume y’all are trolling.

    Since this show is largely slanted to what is typically considered “male gazey,” it’s hard to say that female crotches (and boobs) AREN’T supposed to be considered highly important to the viewer of the show. *shrug* I know there are plenty of people who complain when there aren’t random female body parts on view.

  52. Trent
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    A few thoughts from an Unsullied…
    - I love that things are going on all over the world, but it’s getting a bit distracting to have so many drastic scene changes throughout the episode. Some of these scenes last all of– 60 seconds? like Talisa scaring the Lannister boy– then you’re transported somewhere halfway across the continent.
    - Yeah, I was definitely shocked by the amputation. Maybe cut off a finger…but a whole HAND? For someone as important as that, known for his prowess in sword-fighting? Ouch. It will be interesting to see how it affects Jamie’s character (though I guess somebody already gave a spoiler-ish indication of that…grrr…). Also, if this guy wants some kind of reward from Robb for returning Jamie, don’t you think Robb might be a bit pissed that Jamie is returned as damaged goods?
    - And more Jamie– I think a purely evil character is much less interesting than an apparently bad/evil person who actually has a thought process, motives, and the possibility for change, other than anatomical change…
    - Yeah, the Hot Pie Goodbye seemed awfully definitive– you could almost hear his name being scratched off the show cast list. I feel like we won’t be seeing him again.
    - The Edmure archery fail was pretty funny…and unexpected. I totally expected this (brand new to me) guy to nail it on the first try. It was a fun introduction to him as a character. Of course then I was bitter that he indirectly may have spared The Mountain. BTW, didn’t they refer to him by name in that scene? For some reason I had no doubt who they were talking about (The Mountain, that is).
    - I like Tyrion’s new job. I can see some possibilities with what he’s going to be able to do with that role. Maybe not Hand of the King type power, but a subtler power.
    - Agreed– Craster is better only than Joffrey. Pretty good timing on Sam’s part, eh? Thought that was too big of a coincidence.
    - Melisandre scares me more and more. She totally emasculated Stannis there– “Let’s have a kid!” “You’re not strong enough.” SNIP!!! Probably good that (apparently) nobody else heard. Wonder what she’s up to? And will this offer Davos a chance to get through to Stannis at all? If they went through all of that effort to keep the Davos character alive, I have to think he still has a role, not just to burn at the stake.
    - Interested to see the deal with Theon’s rescuer. He appears to be more than just Yara’s agent…he was portrayed as too badass for that. Poor Theon’s had a bad month or two or however long it’s been since he showed up at the Iron Isles groping his sister.
    - You have to think that sooner or later, Jon’s loyalty is going to be tested by Mance et. al. Maybe he’ll be told to execute Mormont or Edd or even Sam or something like that.
    - My take on the Pod thing (not accepting payment) was that they just wanted to eff with Tyrion and Bronn. Or at least that’s what I hope it was…would be funny.
    - After Ep1 I was looking forward to the interaction between Jorah and Selmy– I finally got a taste of how that will go. “Oh, is it ‘we’ now?” Loved it.
    - And finally Dany. My guess is that one way or another, she’s going to get her dragon back. Maybe once she has her Unsullied, she’s going to “give” the dragon to Kraznys (sp). But it’s not like the dragon comes with a dragon taming manual. If, say, that dragon were to happen to decide to incinerate her new master and return to her “birth mother,” well then that’s not Dany’s fault is it? And even if that’s Dany’s plan, I think she’s shown that she can be ruthless if she wants. And I wonder if the (actual show) Unsullied will even care? Maybe deep down they’ll be glad.

  53. juego de tronos
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    nice review!

  54. Caulker
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    BEST. ENDING. EVER!

    Jamie losing his hand was about the least expected thing i could think of, and then cut to credits and that awesome Floggin Molly-ish version.. wow

    I think this season we’re witnessing the show really coming into it’s own.. This is bloody confident TV right here. This really has potential to be a game-changing season. Bring it on i say! and Missandei is friggin hot! ;)

  55. Trent
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones: you can see the original use in it’s context. It was merely a joke on the power of the Red Woman over Jackass Baratheon. Trust me, if I had some

    No worries, Oz. It’s just a slang term I wouldn’t use, especially in mixed company. But there are plenty worse, and nobody thinks you’re a misogynist. :-)

  56. john
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Caulker,

    The smash cut into a punk rock song after Jaime’s hand got chopped off was brilliant. Was a real mind-fuck.

    Excellent episode, only problem was the cohesiveness which was lacking like usually with GoT (not much you can do about that).

  57. Darker than white
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Anyone remember back in season 1 when Jaime said something in line of I’d rather be dead than a cripple, talking about Bran who he pushed out the window. Well, Karma is a bitch.

  58. MustangJeff
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    Chneurf,

    My thought exactly. She wants ALL the unsullied for a reason. Once she has them all, and she the “The Master”, the city will be utterly defenseless.

  59. Aoife
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    I actually wasn’t horribly offended, although I probably should be, but it was a bit jarring to see that term used prominently in a review, to be honest. I would hope that you could try to at least come up with a new nickname in the future, and not refer to her as the “Red Snatch” for the entire season, though. LOL
    Melisandre/Red Woman (I’m not sure they’ve made her name 100% clear to show-only viewers) *does* have other things going on other than her “magical vagina,” although I understand why you found that aspect of her notable, since the show has emphasized it a lot, IMO.

  60. Dogmayor
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Shaya Collins: I also could have done without the macabre horse heads but I know it’s part of the show and its realistic approach to those cruel times back then.

    Yes, I think we all remember back when ice demons would summon armies of undead and dismember horses. Those were definitely cruel times.

  61. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    Aoife,

    I am glad you werent horribly offended. The absolute last thing I would want to do in writing reviews and recaps is to offend anyone…. women, men, any nationality etc. It was notable only that Stannis acts like a man controlled by the potential of power. And the red woman is the source to get him his power.

  62. Lex
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Darker than white:
    Anyone remember back in season 1 when Jaime said something in line of I’d rather be dead than a cripple, talking about Bran who he pushed out the window.Well, Karma is a bitch.

    Yes, he said Bran would be a “cripple, a grotesque. Give me a good, clean death over that any day.”

    That was some great foreshadowing, no? :)

  63. Carrie
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    “Mance and Jon Snow, among others, come upon a circular pattern of horse heads and carcasses with none of the deceased Night’s Watch to be found.”

    It was a spiral pattern, not a circular pattern.

    In fact it was a golden spiral which gets wider as is spirals outward similar to a galaxy. Much more difficult to create than a circle (simple pi) and I think this hints to the high mathematical intelligence the ‘people’ who created it.

  64. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Carrie,

    Agreed…. a man was writing late at night.

  65. Caelra
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Trent,

    I like your thoughts about the Pod situation. It actually gives the girls some agency which would be totally cool. And, I agree, very funny if they did it to have a laugh at Tyrion and Bronn.

  66. Trent
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    Caelra: – I like your thoughts about the Pod situation. It actually gives the girls some agency which would be totally cool. And, I agree, very funny if they did it to have a laugh at Tyrion and Bronn.

    Wouldn’t it though! :-) And thanks for reading that far down my wall of text!

  67. Caulker
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Anyone else who thinks Stannis is being a bit of a prick this season? I think he’s pretty much overtaken Joffrey’s and Theon’s role for “Arsehole of the season”. Thoughts?

  68. Darker than white
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    My take on the Podrick scene was that it was set up by Tyrion in reference to his own first time, which was discussed in season 1. Like Podrick, Tyrion was painfully shy around women. So Jaime hires a prostitute to play out a scene in which Tyrion becomes the hero to the damsel in distress, giving him some of his happiest moments of his life (although followed in GOT fashion by tragedy). And so Tyrion gives a similar gift to Podrick, memories he will look fondly on for the rest of his life. It makes me love the Tyrion character even more.

  69. Ye Olde Wolfe
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Targaryen: Jamie Lannister has gone soft. This is the guy who kicked off the entire war of the seven kingdoms.1st he pushed Bran Stark out of the window.Before that killed the Mad KingKilled his own soldier who stabbed Ned Stark in the leg when they were fightingKilled his own cousin to escapeBut he saves Brienne (sp?) of Tarth from getting raped and possibly killed? Jamie was supposed to be one of the true bad guys in the show. I need for him to still be bad.

    I will say only this, you should know by now that Joffrey is the only character to be only black or white (cases might even be made for him having some shades of grey). The rest of the crew is all over the grey spectrum :)

  70. Darker than white
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    I’m not sure if D&D did it intentionally but alot of things from this episode took me back to season 1. The severed heads and bodies left by the White Walkers reminded my of the first couple of scenes from episode 1 when we were first introduced to them. Arya confronting the Hound and asking him if he remembered the place, reminded me that this was the location that the butchers son and Lady were killed. Jaime losing his hand reminded me of how he crippled Bran. Tyrion arranging for Podrick’s deflowering reminded me of Tyrion’s tragic first love. I love how immersive this world is and that the more you put into it the more you get out of it.

  71. Grijnwaald
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Dayuum son, that was gooooood…..

    I was very upset to find that Hot Pie was leaving the ArGenPie crew :’(

    Poor Jaime, I thought he had gotten away with it, I thought wrong

  72. Dana
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Trent,

    And the strongest one of all – DANY!!!

  73. Grijnwaald
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    Darker than white:
    Arya confronting the Hound and asking him if he remembered the place, reminded me that this was the location that the butchers son and Lady were killed.

  74. GotGotGot
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Was just an Ok episode for me. To many storylines and not enough time given to each one makes each one less and less meaningful because you cannot get invested into each one with such a sort amount of time, before switching to the next one.

    No way dany will sell off her dragon Obviously her dragon will kill the unsullied master. It is just a question of how the dragon will kill him. Maybe pull him into the air? flame him? then eat him? Who knows. But no way dany will sell off any of her dragons.

    I liked the extra addition of the girl servant to work with dany though.

    Jaime’s hand being cut off was shocking. Sucks because he is a swordsman. The ending credits music was awful and ruined the ending scene imo.

    crows, dont really care about this storyline at all.

    3/5 all 3 of these episodes so far have left a lot to be desired.

  75. Adam
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    Carrie: It was a spiral pattern, not a circular pattern.

    In fact it was a golden spiral which gets wider as is spirals outward similar to a galaxy. Much more difficult to create than a circle (simple pi) and I think this hints to the high mathematical intelligence the ‘people’ who created it.

    Carrie, not every spiral is a golden spiral (which has a very particular mathematical meaning). Certainly spiral galaxies are almost never golden spirals, though they are often in logarithmic spirals (of which the golden spiral is one special example). I have no idea if the spiral of horse heads is logarithmic, though, as I haven’t taken a screenshot and measured it :)

  76. Revae
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Targaryen,

    Jaime is not the one who kicked off the war. Either follow it more closely or wait to get more evidence.

    “Before that killed the Mad King”
    - To save the city and INNOCENTS from burning (this is not a spoiler from the book)

    “Killed his own soldier who stabbed Ned Stark in the leg when they were fighting”
    Really?

    “Killed his own cousin to escape”
    That never actually happens in the books (it’s already gone, not a spoiler). Jaime would never hurt a fellow Lannister.

  77. Ro
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Revae:
    Targaryen,

    “Killed his own cousin to escape”
    That never actually happens in the books (it’s already gone, not a spoiler). Jaime would never hurt a fellow Lannister.

    If you’re going to advise someone to pay more attention, perhaps you should too. These aren’t reviews of the books. They aren’t analyses of the book characters. The discussion is about the show, and therefore show Jaime. And show Jaime killed his cousin to escape.

    I’m also pretty sure that book Jaime (or GRRM) will get over it and doesn’t need his fans to come defend his honor or character because “the ‘true’ Jaime would never do something”.

  78. Terima Kasih
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    my first highlight of the night was the wordless seating arrangement…that was hilarious and tell a lot of stories…oh and the meereenese knot…

  79. Jim
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    Shaya Collins,

    I never liked Catlin either.

  80. Gatorfisch
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Ro,

    While I agree with your statement about book vs show Jaime, just remember this…In season 1, you really see Jaime through the lens of “Stark Vision”. In season 2, when you do see him, you start to see a little more of Jaime’s “real” self. He lets his guard down with his cousin, who he then kills. He is tormenting Brienne, but he is also showing her some respect. It comes off like a big brother razzing the crap out of his “little” sister. (Or at least how my big brothers razzed me. ) Then, when they are tied to that horse and she asks him what he would do if he were a woman about to be raped, he says, “I’d die fighting.” I think he is respects the heck out of her, he just can’t actually ADMIT that to her. Not giving away spoilers, just talking about what we’ve seen on the show so far. And remember, he’s the only member of the Lannister family who truly loves his brother.

  81. Joh
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    I, uh, I might of teared up a little bit when Arya and Gendry said goodbye to Hot Pie. The sad smile he gives Arya as she rides away eating the direwolf-bread…

    But I was holding back manly, dignified tears, of course.

  82. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

    This episode gave me alot of what I wanted to see.

    First up, King’s Landing. More drama between Cersei and Tyrion, with the only good Lannister getting a small victory in musical chairs before being cut down by the woman who may just be my favorite villain on this show. And the return of Varys, the most mysterios person in the capital… too bad he didn’t do much this episode. Unlike Littlefinger, who continues to accrue power and influence while being pleasantly snippy as always. As for Pod, I’m convinced that he didn’t have to spend any money because those women are spies who got information out of him instead: and only a handful of people want Tyrion to realize he was spied on via the returned money.

    On the road I got a ton of satisfying events. Theon’s situation isn’t any more clear, but he escaped torture. I wanted him to pay for betraying the Starks, but I wanted a fight, not the torture that made me squirm (I felt bad about that, and then felt bad for feeling bad about the traitor). And his honor was surprisingly left intact as well, though I wasn’t worried about him like I was Brienne, the one person on this show I was not positive would be spared the fate (contrasting with Sansa, who I never doubted would be spared). The fact that it was Jaime who got her out of danger surprised me. I’m one of the unsullied who doesn’t see him as virtuous or anything other than self centered and egotistical. And yes, he did start the war by trying to kill a kid who learned his secret, and this is the first time we’ve seen him show compassion for someone who isn’t family.

    And in places off the beaten path, Arya is safe but I don’t get why she thought it was helpful to talk to the Hound. I don’t think Dany will lose a dragon just to get an army, but for nor I@m just glad to see her gaining advisors like the translator of Astapor. I’ve got nothing to say about Jon and Sam, but Robb is worrying me because he can’t control his forces. At least Talisa is doing her part to grow the legend of the King of the North while scaring little Lannisters.

  83. sarcasm-hime
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    Aoife,

    Yeah, it was definitely Male-gazey. We would have gotten the ‘hot ladies, Pod is transfixed’ message just fine if they had shot that scene from, say, behind the contortionist so we’d mostly see Pod’s reaction and his view of her crotch is merely implied. Instead we have several very gratuitous crotch shots that are clearly just intended for the audience’s enjoyment. I wouldn’t mind it if, say, the few examples we’ve seen of male nudity were treated in the same manner, but they weren’t.

  84. whodatb
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion clearly had the whores “return” the money to make Pod feel like a sex god. I am certain that they were paid. It was hilarious!

  85. Ro
    Posted April 15, 2013 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    Gatorfisch,

    Gator, I’m well aware. There’s nothing wrong with your comment either. I just don’t think advocating from a place of knowledge based on the books is appropriate in what is supposed to be a spoiler free thread. There is no “true Jaime” in the context of this thread. There is only show Jaime. Book readers should stick to discussing what we’ve seen on the show if they are attempting to participate. There should never be an argument that “Jaime would have never killed a Lannister”, because, guess what–he did.

  86. Joh
    Posted April 16, 2013 at 12:02 am | Permalink

    whodatb,

    A perfect example of how good Tyrion is a playing The Game, and manipulating people (hopefully for good!). ;)

  87. AddyStark
    Posted April 16, 2013 at 12:33 am | Permalink

    GG,

    I found the ending music quite jarring and surprisingly appropriate, following the intenseness of the final scene. Even knowing what was about to happen to Jaime, it was hard to watch. The cheerful, bouncing music of the credits was a well done juxtaposition to the horror of the final scene.

  88. NedStarksBody
    Posted April 16, 2013 at 3:08 am | Permalink

    Having read the books after watching the first two seasons, the thing I love most now is coming here to read your blog and the comments and remember that feeling of surprise and suspense! Stay unsullied you sweet summer children!

    *UN*SULLIED

  89. Jentario
    Posted April 16, 2013 at 5:09 am | Permalink

    Targaryen:
    Jamie Lannister has gone soft. This is the guy who kicked off the entire war of the seven kingdoms.
    1st he pushed Bran Stark out of the window.
    Before that killed the Mad King
    Killed his own soldier who stabbed Ned Stark in the leg when they were fighting
    Killed his own cousin to escape
    But he saves Brienne (sp?) of Tarth from getting raped and possibly killed? Jamie was supposed to be one of the true bad guys in the show. I need for him to still be bad.

    No one in the show is truly bad. Except for Joffery maybe but he’s a total psychopath so I’m not sure it counts. Characters are in for many reversals in the coming seasons, so brace yourself!

  90. Faceless Man
    Posted April 16, 2013 at 5:24 am | Permalink

    Targaryen,

    Hey, I read the books but I offer no spoilers since I consider that a crime that in severity is only trumped by murder. Just wanted to clear somethings up for you that have been featured in the show but very briefly and, seeing your comment, I think you missed.

    First of all, Jaime is not a villain. In the world of GoT there are no totally evil people. And no, I don’t think Joffrey is an exception to that rule although I would concede him a lot faster than Jaime.

    Secondly, Jaime didn’t kick of the war. He killed the King he swore to protect and thus helped ending it. I don’t know for sure that the television show has told us explicitly what started the war but suffice to say, it had little to do with Jaime.

    Lastly, I would just like to add that having finished the books (up until the fifth and currently latest entry) Jaime is/was definitely one of my favorite characters, but I also like/liked Tywin in his competent ruthlessness so take that as you will.

    PS: If you feel I have unwittingly spoiled anything please send me an email and you will receive a video of me committing harakiri in shame.

  91. Kael of the Lake
    Posted April 16, 2013 at 5:43 am | Permalink

    The only thing in the recap I find misplaced is the Serious Quote. This episode had one of the most memorable quotes from the whole saga, “Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died ” http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/27600000/asoiaf-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-27631681-1024-768.jpg quoted by Jorah Mormont, displaying the vanity of the high aspirations. I’m surprised it didn’t have the impact it was supposed to.

    Also, I’ve found the behaviour of Blackfish (and Robb) towards Edmure quite harsh. Especially in his father funeral, Blackfish should be less judgmental and more discreet instead of choosing to humiliate Edmure in front of the nobles attending his father’s funeral. Blackfish shows a very compassionate personality in his interaction with Cat (who also did something that may cost them dearly by freeing Jamie). These two incidents prove prejudice against Edmure. It certainly can be so but it seemed to me strange.

  92. Mustangjeff
    Posted April 16, 2013 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    Kael of the Lake:
    The only thing in the recap I find misplaced is the Serious Quote. This episode had one of the most memorable quotes from the whole saga, “Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died ” http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/27600000/asoiaf-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-27631681-1024-768.jpg quoted by Jorah Mormont, displaying the vanity of the high aspirations. I’m surprised it didn’t have the impact it was supposed to.

    That quote reminded me of the same cautionary tale that we should take from Ned Stark. Sometimes doing things the “right way” just get you killed.

  93. Vaess
    Posted April 16, 2013 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    Strepsi:
    Reading the new recaps. I do have one smallquibble with the Game of Thrones writing, which is that they could be clearer.It was not clear who Rob was hoping to draw out — The Hound, The Mountain, or Tywin — and referring to him as a “mad dog” did not help…

    Tyrion could remind us that he has been at the Eyrie and met Lysa Aryn before (she damn near dropped him 8,000 feet)

    And I know it’s a little on-the-nose, but a scene with Cat saying “Hello my brothers, sad our dad is dead” would help clarify a lot, know what I mean?

    These are the elements the people I was watching with were confused the hell out of.

    One thing JK Rowling did so well was recap in a natrual way what came before – -I am not aksing the writers to spoon-feed us, but they could be a *touch* more clear…

    Just finished watching the episode and I am pretty sure almost all these things did happen.

    I am sure Robb actually named “The Mountain” in his scene with Edmure – maybe it was only “Clegane” but I think it was fairly obvious who he was talking about.

    Tyrion’s parting shot to Littlefinger was something about enjoying the Eyrie – a nod to the fact that Tyrion was held prisoner there.

    The scenes at Riverrun were not as obvious but I believe Robb called Edmure “Uncle” and Cat did call Blackfish “Uncle”.

    I think the writers do a fine job with the little time and money they have. I think somethings get lost in the dialogue as it all happens so fast and there are so many different accents that you can miss what is being said. If you watch those scenes again I think you will find the info there, you just have to listen hard.

  94. Trent
    Posted April 16, 2013 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Trent,
    And the strongest one of all – DANY!!!

    Yes, how could I forget?!

    For that matter, I can’t think of a single weak female character in the show, unless you want to count the unnamed prostitutes. I’m sure someone else can, but none jump to mind. Some might count Sansa, but I wouldn’t.

  95. Valyrian
    Posted April 16, 2013 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Kael of the Lake,

    That’s probably because at this point in the show Rhaegar is not as meaningful as he is by the time we get to this quote in the books when just dropping his name will make everyone stare off into the distance and think of what could’ve been lol but I think the one Oz chose was great :)

  96. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 16, 2013 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian,

    Hey thanks Valyrian! I can’t disagree with Kael of the lake either. That quote was classic and held a deeper meaning than just regarding the past of Rheagar. In fact, I wouldn’t mind an episode of only Jorah speaking.

  97. Another User Name
    Posted April 17, 2013 at 12:57 am | Permalink

    Late to the party, (I buy the program on itunes on Tuesday in Australia), but no-one seems to have noted that Jaime saving Brienne’s honour, was totally in his own interest, or so it would have seemed to him at the time.

    Brienne is the closest thing to an ally he has in the current situation, and he was testing Locke on if he was open to ransom at all, before trying to, again to ransom himself. Of course, it turned out to be a mistake.

  98. Lisa
    Posted April 17, 2013 at 2:09 am | Permalink

    Targaryen,

    You know nothing about Jaime Lannister.

  99. Kael of the Lake
    Posted April 17, 2013 at 3:35 am | Permalink

    Valyrian, that’s true and probably the thing I miss most from the show.

    Mustangjeff, of course. Strangely in every such occasion regarding this show. Many names comes to mind.

    Oz, I read you. ;-)

  100. Paul Booth
    Posted April 17, 2013 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    You would have if you were on Twitter :)

  101. kittie
    Posted April 17, 2013 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    Never get a twitter account. You will be spoiled within first two minutes. Listen to me.

  102. imnotyourjesus
    Posted April 17, 2013 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    Aoife,

    thanks for commenting about that red snatch name. So annoyed with the way this show and fandom around it treat female characters.

  103. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 17, 2013 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    I have a question for people who read the books, if they can answer without spoilers. Is there really that much dislike for the show’s portrayal of Jaime?

    I think it is rather cool that he is shown to be a ruthless, self-centered, and egotistical jerk while still loving his family. For me his most important scenes have been in the first episode when he found Tyrion in the brothel and later in season 1 when he complained about Robert’s infidelity to while seeming to not notice Cersei’s.

  104. Gatorfisch
    Posted April 17, 2013 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear:
    I have a question for people who read the books, if they can answer without spoilers. Is there really that much dislike for the show’s portrayal of Jaime?

    I think it is rather cool that he is shown to be a ruthless, self-centered, and egotistical jerk while still loving his family. For me his most important scenes have been in the first episode when he found Tyrion in the brothel and later in season 1 when he complained about Robert’s infidelity to while seeming to not notice Cersei’s.

    I don’t have a problem with the show’s potrayal of Jaime. And not just because NCW plays him. LOL. One thing that the books allow that are difficult to do with the show, is to offer more insight into the characters, through the POVs. It’s really hard to do internal dialogue on the show without it being cheesy. So, they may add a scene that wasn’t in the books to try to help flesh out the characters. And, sometimes those scenes help the unsullied get the idea…sometimes they do not. I think that is what has happened with Jaime’s character. What was meant to show his desperation at being a captive, as well as his distaste at being seen by others as a man without honor, being “forced” to take action in a time of war, came off to some as another example of how horrible he is. Jaime may do whatever is necessary (he’s a warrior and this IS war), but it doesn’t mean he likes it. Book Jaime isn’t really different than show Jaime…I just think some people don’t get that point. After all, other than pushing Bran out the window (to save his lover/children), every other “bad” thing he’s done has been during a time of war and were acts not unusual in wartime. As someone else mentioned somewhere, Jaime is a man of action not planning. There is no malice in his acts…he doesn’t enjoy cruelty, like his son and the Mountain.

  105. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 17, 2013 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    Gatorfisch,

    Did Jaime have a lot of viewpoint scenes in the books? I haven’t gotten the sense that honor is of great importance to him, but I concede that the show has mostly shown him only from the Stark POV. Other than the dressing down he got while Tywin was butchering a stag, I don’t think he’s had any interaction with people where he had a chance to be sympathetic.

    So far the Hound seems to care more about honor and innocent lives than Jaime, but that’s because we’ve seen him protecting Sansa. Protecting her from the retaliation if she did try to kill Joffrey when she saw Ned’s head, protecting her from Joffrey’s own wrath when she made up a story about luck on your name day, and of course he protected her from during the riot. Instead of protecting people, Jaime was on the offensive when he crippled Bran, ambushed Ned, and made several escape attempts.

  106. Jamb0
    Posted April 17, 2013 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear

    Did Jaime have a lot of viewpoint scenes in the books?

    Gonna block this just in case, but no spoilers, I promise! Just talking about Jaime in the first 2, nothing past that.

    Well, he didn’t get his own chapters until book 3, so up until then everything he did we just saw through other character’s eyes. And up until book 3, he honestly didn’t do all that much – he was always an important character, and his actions had big repercussions, but basically all he does is push Bran, attack Ned, and get captured by Robb. He’s only around for really one scene in the 2nd book, his conversation with Cat where she releases him.

    I think he’s been great on the show.

  107. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 17, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    Jamb0,

    Oh, so the show hasn’t really altered how often we see Jaime or from what POV. All the talk in the comments about the “real” Jaime gave me the impression that the show had been leaving out tons of character development.

  108. Gatorfisch
    Posted April 17, 2013 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    “Instead of protecting people, Jaime was on the offensive when he crippled Bran, ambushed Ned, and made several escape attempts”

    He was protecting his family when he crippled Bran…and when Catelyn captured Tyrion and Lysa threatened to kill him. As far as the escape attempts, well…if you were a captive that most of the enemy camp wanted dead, wouldn’t you try to escape? It’s all about perspective, isn’t it? I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that all we’ve seen of Jaime so far is from the Stark view. Even in the books, this is really the first time we are getting to see him from a “pure” viewpoint. And by “pure”, I simply mean with our own eyes, not through the lens of someone else’s view. We are like Brienne, in that respect. She only knows what she’s heard from others, just like us. I can’t say if future “show” Jaime will follow “book” Jaime, but so far, they have tried to keep the two in synch. Does that make sense? I had massive dental work done, so I may not be explaining it well.

  109. Cohen
    Posted April 18, 2013 at 7:25 am | Permalink

    It’s all a matter of perspective. From Jaime’s point of view, everybody is giving him hell for years now because he killed a mad king who was about to burn his city to the ground, thus ending the war and maybe saving thousands of innocent lives. He actually should get a statue for this, but what happens? Everyone, especially the people who wanted to kill this king in the first place, call him the kingslayer.

    On the other hand, the first thing we see in the series is Ned Stark killing a boy (or young man, but he really wasn’t that old) for running away from zombies and ice demons. And he is seen as the honour in person, the knight in shining armor.

    Sure, Jaime did some bad things. But of those, what except for the pushing of Bran can be classified as “evil”. Attacking Ned in Kings Landing? After he took Jaimes brother captive and threatened to execute him (at least from what Jaime knew)? I can’t really blame him for that.
    Being intimate with his sister is nothing I would call normal (although look at the Targaryens), but it’s not evil either.
    Fighting in a war? Well, he is a knight. That’s what he does.
    Otherwise, what did he do? The problem is that everyone speaks of him as this really bad person without any honour, so we are back at “perspective”.

  1. [...] comments will contain spoilers. If you haven’t read ASoS yet, you can discuss this episode in our non-book reader recap. [...]

  2. [...] first, let us clear some air, shall we?:  On Monday’s Newbie Recap of Ep. 23 here, I seemed to have ruffled a few raven feathers when I referred to Melisandre (a.k.a. the Red Woman, [...]


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