Episode 24 – And Now His Watch Is Ended – Newbie Recap
By Winter Is Coming on in Recap.

Varys and Ros

“And Now His Watch Is Ended” was packed with shocking and epic moments. What was a new viewer’s take on it all? Read on to find out Oz’s thoughts.

Spoiler note: The discussion in this post is primarily for non-book readers (book fans can discuss the show here). We ask all the series veterans to refrain from posting spoilers in the comments here, veiled or otherwise. This show is best viewed without knowing all the surprises beforehand, so please be respectful of your fellow fans. Thank you!

Oz of Thrones: Another episode is in the books (no pun blah blah), and I am reminded why I am repeatedly blown away by this show. For once, I have no idea even where to begin, or how to preface it. There was an abundance of action, information, and numerous assumptions that we, the Unsullied, must try to sort out while battling the ever-present challenge of remaining unspoiled. The games are on, everywhere we turn. So let’s do it.

For this weeks’ recap, I thought I would change things up a little and write to someone who has been on my mind since Episode 1 of Season 3. So, here is the newbie recap, Unsullied version, authored in the form of a letter. I sincerely hope you enjoy.

Ser Davos Seaworth
Dungeon Cell # 4-B
Dragonstone Inn
Dragonstone Castle, Westeros

22 April 13

Dear Davos,

Hey man. How’s it going? I hope this letter finds you, and finds you well. I understand that the Dragonstone Inn (according to Yelp! reviews) is not the nicest joint to be staying in. If it makes you feel any better, it can’t be much worse than the grungy Motel 6 down the road. Either way, I hope that they are leaving the lantern lit for you, and maybe shoving a mint under your pillow every now and then.

I can only assume that you have been lonely for the past few weeks, so I thought I would raven you a letter. The truth is that after everything that has gone on lately in Westeros, I really just needed someone to talk to. I can’t go into everything that has happened since you’ve been in, but you can always look up my recaps here on winteriscoming.net; that is, of course, if Stannis is nice enough to give you his password for the Dragonstone wi-fi.

Anyway, the shit shoveling has hit the fan hard. The Night’s Watch seems to be in shambles, as many of them have been taken out by the White Walkers. Now, after what’s left of the Crows beyond the wall taking up residency at Craster’s crib (full of daughters he regularly pounds only to make more daughters he can pound), they get into a squabble with the creep which ended up playing out like a drug deal gone bad. Only, the drugs in this situation was actually just some decent food to eat and a little wine that Craster had been consuming himself. A crow named Karl (I think) calls him out on it, and Craster doesn’t take it kindly. Then, finally, Craster gets what is coming to him and gets the business in his neck. Great, right? But then some SOB that has always had a hot temper (I think his name is Rast?) stabs Jeor Mormont in the back. Read that again. This idiot stabs the Lord Commander and kills him! Dammit man! Sam somehow escapes the whole debacle and collects Gilly with her new baby boy. They seem to escape for the time being. I am really fond of Sam, but in all honesty, how safe is Gilly with him? This whole deal with Mormont dying is surely troubling me.

Oh well, let’s move on. I am sure you know who Jaime Lannister is. Jaime has had better days. Last week, he was offering up some land and coin to a guy named Locke who subsequently slap-chopped his hand off. I know this is something that you can almost relate to, with your knuckle issue. Jaime has done some morally questionable things in his past that I won’t go into, but I found myself feeling sorry for the guy. Brienne gave him an uplifting “stop feeling sorry for yourself” speech that may help him. But the Kingslayer is in rough shape. I thought you would want to know. Things could always be worse.

So, do you know this guy Varys? You should look him up. Tyrion approached Varys about proof of Cersei (yes, his sister) ordering the attempt on his life, only to get a story from him about how he lost his rod and stem from a sorcerer a long time ago. Varys just happens to be opening a crate that looks like it had just come off of a UPS truck, and the sorcerer is in the box. Varys tells Tyrion that in time, revenge will be his. But not only is Varys great with counseling and advice, but he also is probably the most informed guy in the seven kingdoms. He catches up with Ros who tells him about Littlefinger’s interest in Sansa, which leads him to meet with Lady Olenna Tyrell about the situation and to come up with an alternate plan (we call her Grandma Lemon Cakes). The point is that the guy is incredibly connected and quite resourceful, and may be of some service in terms of your predicament.

In what I assume is connected to the conversation between Varys and Lemon Cakes, Margaery later meets with Sansa. She proposes they be close friends and when she marries Joffrey, Sansa can marry Loras. Sansa will be safe and they will be sisters. You also need to know that this Margaery lady really knows how to play Joffrey, so much so that Cersei is concerned enough to have a meeting with her daddy about it.

You probably won’t care about this, but Theon Greyjoy has really found himself in a bad situation too. After being saved by an unnamed bow and arrow marksman from an unknown group of torturers, the unnamed seems to have a motive of his own. He actually takes Theon back to the torturers that he saved him from. I know, it’s crazy. And we still don’t know why. But it’s just a reminder, Davos, that you can’t trust anyone.

I met a new guy this week named Beric Dondarrion who is apparently the leader of the Brotherhood without Banners. Now you may find this particularly interesting due to the fact that he follows the one true God, the Lord of Light. I don’t know if you are aware of this, but the Red Woman who your jackass leader is so invested in has checked out of the Dragonstone Inn in search of other blood like that of Stannis. In my mind, that could very well be Gendry. The question I had before this was, how could she even know that Gendry existed? This could be the answer to that question. Then again, maybe you can see everything in existence in those flames. And there are a lot of assumptions here, so don’t get too worked up. Either way, it looks like Beric and the Hound are in for an epic sword battle very soon.

And finally, there is Dany Targaryen. In a fantastic turn of events, the Mother of Dragons has secured an army of 8,000 soldiers with no manhood, and managed to keep all three of said Dragons. If you are looking for a good team to join, Davos, this group is not a bad bet.

By the way, do you know Jojen Reed? It wouldn’t hurt to have a warg on your side either.

I probably went into much more detail than you wanted, Davos. But I think you probably get the main idea of what I am trying to tell you. Basically, the town has gone nuts, and considering the events of late, you may be better off hanging out at the Dragonstone Inn for a while.

Take care my friend.

Sincerely,

Oz of Thrones
Lord of House Oz and Protector of Ozlings

Episode 304 Personal Awards
Favorite Scene: Obviously, the scene where Krazyns gets cooked is outstanding. But the most shocking for me was Craster’s, where both Craster and Mormont met their end.
Favorite Quote: “Seduce away. It’s been so long. Though I rather think it’s all for naught. What happens when the nonexistent bumps against the decrepit? A question for the philosophers.” -Lady Olenna speaking to Varys
Ow, That Shit Hurts Award: Krazyns having his face burned off by the one of the coolest pets ever.

Final Thoughts: GoT has cursed me. In a man’s humble opinion, there is just nothing else out there that really measures up to this show. I realize that to some viewers the number of characters, plots, storylines, and unknowns in this world can be overwhelming (Ozzette and I had to rewind a couple of times last night just because we thought we missed something…. And likely missed something else in the process). But the reward we get for being invested in so many characters is the shock when something like the Craster’s deal goes down. The only problem I see is, how does D&D continue to top this? It could seriously be the best television, ever.

Sorry, Little Birdies: Due to the responses of the great readers of WiC.net, a man has decided it would be in his best interest to remain Unsullied and not get a Twitter account for now. Maybe later. A man must make sacrifices.

Remember: No spoilers from my Sullied friends, please!

I will be traveling off of the Kingsroad later this week and will try to crank out a Looking Forward, Ep. 25 for Friday. Until the next time our paths meet, may there be peace in your realm. -Oz


165 Comments

  1. Book Nazi
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Hodor! or maybe ….. Hot Pie!

  2. Brienne
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    HO FUCKING DOR

  3. Drew
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:23 am | Permalink
  4. dmf
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Jojen isn’t a warg, he has sight. Bran is a warg though.

    Great recap! Love hearing what non readers think! :)

  5. greg
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    superkick,

    Nice veiled spoiler asshole

  6. Andy Gavin (@asgavin
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    An episode packed with goodies. Severed hands. Lots of Varys. Dondarian reborn. And the final shot, in all it’s glorious CGI of city, army, and dragons, dragons, dragons, more than made up for the skimpy (budget) battle before it. Drogon and Dany both literarily brought a tear to my fantasy geek eye. In any case, you can find my more detailed thoughts on this episode on my blog as usual.

  7. Alan
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Drew:
    Anyone else as annoyed by the Jaime and Varys scenes as these guys were? http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/04/on-i-game-of-thrones-i-two-savage-spectacular-game-changers/274976/

    People should note that that recap/discussion has two book-readers in it.

    I thought the Jaime scene was fantastic and the best executed in the show. But the Varys-Tyrion scene was disjointed and I just hope the Pod-as-Casanova joke just ends.

  8. greg
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Thanks to whoever deleted that guys comment

  9. Patchface
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    patchface.

  10. ANiceChianti
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    The joke’s on you, Oz… Davos can’t read.

    (Not a spoiler! He talked about this with Mathos last season.)

  11. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    ANiceChianti,

    They also don’t have wi-fi at Dragonstone. Just having some fun.

  12. predat0rian
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Maybe someone can clear this up for me:

    The guy that freed Theon from the people that were torturing him and the guy that rescues him and takes him back to where he was being held captive; was that the same person?

    If it is the same person then doesn’t it seem a little redundant to let Theon go, only to recapture him later?

  13. Alan
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    predat0rian:
    Maybe someone can clear this up for me:

    The guy that freed Theon from the people that were torturing him and the guy that rescues him and takes him back to where he was being held captive;was that the same person?

    If it is the same person then doesn’t it seem a little redundant to let Theon go, only to recapture him later?

    Yes, it is. Seems a little twisted, no?

  14. Patchface
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    predat0rian,

    Yes it is the same guy, and yes it would seem redundant, but only because hes PSYCHO and they wanna show how messed up he is.

  15. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    predat0rian,

    From what I understand, it is the same guy, which is what leads me to believe he has motives of his own. To the remaining torturers, he looked like a hero for recapturing Theon and returning him.

    Set up the whole time? Maybe. But I could be completely off-base.

  16. Patchface
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    Also who voted are teh votes that voted 1/5 stars ?????

  17. Chris
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    I know the book readers will probably laugh at me, but it seems like we’re spending alot of valuable screen time, really valuable time, for Theon to go in a circle. With all the other stories that get little screen time (Bran) or just skipped (Robb, Jon), and others in other weeks, it just seems silly to see him back where he started. Yes, the confession about Stark v. Greyjoy was nice, and stupid by him, but it just seemed like a lot of time for that pay off.

    Also, not sure how I feel about Jamie becoming more of a sympathetic character. Really have to catch myself on that. I like Arya calling the Hound out about Micah. In spite of last season trying to make look more human, he’s still the guy who killed a 12 year old boy.

  18. ANiceChianti
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    You never know what Melisandre can cook up. ;^)

  19. Marco
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    How come the comments for the book readers are up as soon as the show ends, and us non book readers have to wait for the next day? I want more GOT as soon as I can get it.

  20. dmf
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Chris,

    I think it’ll make sense for you by the end of the season.

  21. MustangJeff
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Even though I had the Dany storyline mostly figured out last week, It was truly epic to see it play out. One thing I didn’t see was Dany setting the warriors free. I hope she raiding the city for food and water before she left because that’s a lot of mouths to feed.

    I did not see the Nights Watch rebellion coming. Obviously moral has been terrible among the crows, but I thought the dissension was all talk with no bite. I’ll miss Mormont, and now I need to re-evaluate some of my theories with Jon Snow’s stryline. This seems to have the potential for a major metamorphosis in Sam’s character now that he’ll have people who depend on him for survival.

    I’m not sure what to think of Theon’s story at this point. Obviously the person who “rescued” him is playing an extremely brutal and sadistic form of psychological torture. That’s pretty brutal to kill a bunch of your own men just to keep up the ruse of an actual escape and the hope that comes with it.

  22. Croccifixio
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    on the criticism that it was convenient that varys had that fellow in the box, i think it was okay and not convenient.

    varys was handling his box and tyrion went to him for advice, he just worked the significance of the box into the conversation .tyrion started the topic regarding the events of the battle of blackwater bay and varys went “remember that time i was about to tell you how i was cut?” and proceed to tell the story since he already had the punchline in his hands.

  23. Jacobos47
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    I know the book readers will probably laugh at me, but it seems like we’re spending alot of valuable screen time, really valuable time, for Theon to go in a circle. With all the other stories that get little screen time (Bran) or just skipped (Robb, Jon), and others in other weeks, it just seems silly to see him back where he started. Yes, the confession about Stark v. Greyjoy was nice, and stupid by him, but it just seemed like a lot of time for that pay off.

    This particular thing is not fault of producers. They suffer from a small amount of story which is connected with small amount of it in the books. But I think that soon enough we will see for example a lot of Robb onscreen, you’ll see.

  24. Yago
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    Marco,

    WiC received the first 4 episodes a month or so ago, and has watched them before they aired. Oz only saw them yesterday, same as everyone. WiC had already written his review, and posted it immediatly after the end of the episode. Oz’s review is only up now because it takes some time for him to write, and then for WiC to post it (he can’t be online 24/7). I expect the readers recap will be later for the following episodes.

  25. mellowjohn
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    seems to me that if you have just purchased an army of slave-soldiers who obey all orders w/o question, you would now be their master (mistress, actually), especially if you’re literally holding their ceremonial whip. you might then want to be careful about issuing orders like “kill all the masters. kill everyone with a whip.”

  26. Quowala
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    Chris,

    Don’t want to tell you what to think or influence your opinion but Jaime’s character arc after losing his hand is one of my (and many other people’s) absolute favorite things from the entire book series. They are staying very true to the books on his characters so far this season (relationship with Brienne, the hand necklace, attempting to fight with his left hand, being given horse piss to drink) so if they continue in this vein I think Jaime will be the stand-out character of this season in the way that Theon was last year.

  27. Peter
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    Chris: I know the book readers will probably laugh at me, but it seems like we’re spending alot of valuable screen time, really valuable time, for Theon to go in a circle. With all the other stories that get little screen time (Bran) or just skipped (Robb, Jon), and others in other weeks, it just seems silly to see him back where he started. Yes, the confession about Stark v. Greyjoy was nice, and stupid by him, but it just seemed like a lot of time for that pay off.

    It might help to change your point of view. We’ve known Theon so long that we just assume he’s the main character in these scenes, but what if his “rescuer” is the main character? Then it doesn’t look like such a waste of screen time.

  28. sCor
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    mellowjohn,

    “Slay every man who holds a whip.”

  29. Shock Me
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    Chris,

    You mean he’s still the guy who pushed a 10-yr-old Bran out a window. The kid is still alive.

  30. Melarra
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    This review really reminds me of MarkReads and his style of reviews for Harry Potter. I really like it! :) And reading Unsullied reviews is probably my favourite way to recap the episode. Thanks Oz!

  31. Dangeresque
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard : I think the sadistic jerk that let Theon out only to take him back is the “bastard” that was spoken of to taken back Winterfell. His letting Theon out got him the information on Bran and Rikon that was most dear to Robb. While at the same time getting a bit more information about Theon’s sorrows.

    Spider in the Garden: Varys and Oleana’s conversation was just great dialog. Oleana must be quickly becoming a fan favorite as the “grandmother that is too old to give a hoot.”

    And Now His Watch Has Ended: Didn’t see the rebellion of thieves and scumbags coming. Lord Mormount went out like a HERO. Sam running and leaving his friends to fend for themselves like they did to him at the place of the first men was poetic justice.

  32. Targaryen
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    Ok, I am a non reader, but why is it that every week people keep boasting about Hodor on here? The guy probably has said a total of 20 words on this series, but even the 1st comment of the day is about Hodor.

  33. Shock Me Sane
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know what all the complaints about Locke being a Bolton lordling who would never do such a thing to Jaimie are about. He is never referred to as a lord. Roose Bolton says he is sending his finest hunter to find Jaimie. He could still easily be a sell-sword, as there is absolutely no indication he has any form of high birth.

  34. Shock Me
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Targaryen,

    Hodor?

  35. Eor103
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    Is it really that hard for book readers to stay out of here? The questions the unsullied are asking are for the other unsullied, not for us. It’d be like someone asking “Hey Darth Vader seems weird, wonder if there’s more to the story about him and Luke’s dad?”, followed by people going “you’re on the right track! :) “, or “Yeah you find out all about that at the end of the second movie”, or just straight up “Yeah Luke’s dad isn’t dead you’ll find out more later”. If they wanted to know they can go to a song of ice and fire wiki and just read everything. Stop with the hints, they’re not cryptic, they’re not cute.

    Shock Me Sane:
    I don’t know what all the complaints about Locke being a Bolton lordling who would never do such a thing to Jaimie are about. He is never referred to as a lord. Roose Bolton says he is sending his finest hunter to find Jaimie. He could still easily be a sell-sword, as there is absolutely no indication he has any form of high birth.

    Actually when he was giving commands about raping Brienne/cutting of Jaime’s hand his men addressed him as “My Lord”.

  36. Targaryen
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    MustangJeff: Even though I had the Dany storyline mostly figured out last week, It was truly epic to see it play out. One thing I didn’t see was Dany setting the warriors free. I hope she raiding the city for food and water before she left because that’s a lot of mouths to feed

    ———————
    I was thinking the same thing. And I didn’t see the rest of the Dothraki marching with her. Are they the people that are carrying the supplies? Didn’t she learn from the last time in the Red Waste? And what about the ships?

  37. Bing
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Targaryen:
    Ok, I am a non reader, but why is it that every week people keep boasting about Hodor on here? The guy probably has said a total of 20 words on this series, but even the 1st comment of the day is about Hodor.

    He’s basically turned into a meme

  38. quasadu
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Targaryen:
    The guy probably has said a total of 20 words on this series

    Pretty sure he’s only ever said one word.

  39. Targaryen
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    Shock Me: Targaryen, Hodor?

    LOL!

  40. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Am I the only one who laughed at Theon realizing he had been played? I had been feeling bad about him for a while, especially when he had a monologue that started off trying to convince himself he made the right choices but ended up confessing he was wrong and doesn’t know what to do now. How often do you see that from a tv character? But in the end I still feel ill will toward him and was not bothered by the psychological torture.

    And I finally got some answers about the Spider! Not his physiology, his motives. I knew he was a rival to Littlefinger, I didn’t know he really thinks the man is as dangerous as Joffrey. And his problem with magic is almost as bad as the Hound’s with fire. Combine those to motivations with the fact he achieved his life goal of extending his influence to get revenge and I don’t know what he’ll be doing next.

  41. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    I assumed this was what people posted just do they could say they were the first to post. Usually it is the sullied who do this I guess.
    Bing,

  42. Shaya Collins
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Wow! I really, really LOVED this episode and would consider it the best & most thrilling one of season three so far. Definitely deserves all five stars.

    I don’t know where to begin as there were so many fantastic moments. Jamie’s (temporary) defeat; Theon being played very badly; Margaery’s big influence on King Joffrey and the bond she forms with Sansa; Lady Olenna’s enjoyable banter at Varys; the Night’s Watch’s turmoil; and last but not least Daenerys’ awesome rise, which gave me goose bumps.

    “And Now His Watch Is Ended” was over way too quickly, and I hope the following episodes will be just as powerful and unforgettable.

  43. NONBOOKREADER
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    Great review!

  44. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    i totally agree about the comments from people that have read the books. When i ask a question it is for my fellow unsullied unless I specify otherwise, which I have done before. But I like to speculate with everyone else that doesn’t know what to expect.
    Eor103,

  45. Dan Spicer
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    My wife, the non-book reader had as many questions/comments as usual. She seems to really enjoy Lady Olenna. Every time she speaks my wife giggles… She utterd the word, “Bastard.” half a heat beat before that Night’s watch guy did, and yelled, “No!, Not Him, I liked him!” When Mormont got killed. On Tywin, “Who is getting these letters he’s writing? They keep showing him writing letters, who is he writing to? Tell me. You know, don’t you? Just tell me who he is writing letters to?” On Joff, “She kills him with his crossbow, right?” That’s why they showed her with it, right? Just tell me if she shoots him. I hate him. I hope he dies. He dies, right?” On Jaime and Briennee, “As soon as he does one nice thing that shit happens. What the f–k? I guess he deserved it. Do they end up doing it? They do, don’t they?” On Theon, “I don’t get it…Oh!!! He told him the Stark boys aren’t dead, is that it?” On Dany, “This guy (Kraznys) is such an asshole. She understood all that other stuff he was saying, that’s funny! I knew it, I knew it, I knew. I knew she was going to tell her dragon to kill that guy.” Watches previews, then “how many episodes are left? 6? They need to have more, ten isn’t enough when you have to wait a year.”

  46. Faceless Man
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear,

    As a book-reader you cant imagine the joy we get from seeing you speculate and guess. It reminds us of being in the same position long ago, desperately trying to makes sense of a complex, ever-changing puzzle. Some of us seem to overstep our bonds and drop hints which I agree is stupid.

    Our apologies.

  47. Hexonx
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    After watching again the best part of the Varys/Tyrion scene is knowing the sorcerer is probably hearing why he was kidnapped for the 1st time.

    Also, it’s hard for me to believe the “Boy’s” motivation was to get info about Bran & Rickon from Theon as he never pressed Theon for it. Theon brought all that stuff on his own.

  48. NDC
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    mellowjohn:
    seems to me that if you have just purchased an army of slave-soldiers who obey all orders w/o question, you would now be their master (mistress, actually), especially if you’re literally holding their ceremonial whip. you might then want to be careful about issuing orders like “kill all the masters. kill everyone with a whip.”

    Pretty sure she said every MAN with a whip. She made a big deal in Walk of Punishment about not being a man. :)

  49. Dickon Manwoody
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Shaya Collins,

    My mother, who is an unsullied through and through, said the same thing. “This episode goes by WAY too fast!”

    I remember seeing the time was 9:50 and Dany still hadn’t shown up. Such a packed episode, it was amazing! And 3 Varys scenes? Yes please!

  50. lebaf
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer: My wife, the non-book reader had as many questions/comments as usual. She seems to really enjoy Lady Olenna. Every time she speaks my wife giggles… She utterd the word, “Bastard.” half a heat beat before that Night’s watch guy did, and yelled, “No!, Not Him, I liked him!” When Mormont got killed. On Tywin, “Who is getting these letters he’s writing? They keep showing him writing letters, who is he writing to? Tell me. You know, don’t you? Just tell me who he is writing letters to?” On Joff, “She kills him with his crossbow, right?” That’s why they showed her with it, right? Just tell me if she shoots him. I hate him. I hope he dies. He dies, right?” On Jaime and Briennee, “As soon as he does one nice thing that shit happens. What the f–k? I guess he deserved it. Do they end up doing it? They do, don’t they?” On Theon, “I don’t get it…Oh!!! He told him the Stark boys aren’t dead, is that it?” On Dany, “This guy (Kraznys) is such an asshole. She understood all that other stuff he was saying, that’s funny! I knew it, I knew it, I knew. I knew she was going to tell her dragon to kill that guy.” Watches previews, then “how many episodes are left? 6? They need to have more, ten isn’t enough when you have to wait a year.”

    yep, this is pretty much what watching the show with my wife is like. unfourtuantly I’m not that strong willed so she’s innterogated most of the rest of the spoilers for the next two season out of me.

  51. Shock Me
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Hexonx,

    I disagree. His ears pricked up at the mention of “those two boys” and he led the conversation after that. While it may not have been his main goal, other than a ransom, that knowledge about the Stark boys was the only thing of value that Theon possessed. Control of those boys is more important than even control of Sansa Stark. After all, Bran is Lord of Winterfell and potentially a Prince of the North assuming the Northern Lords permit it. After all Robb has no heir (though looking at Ooona Chaplin, I’m sure he’s doing his best in some ro0m at Riverun. She did say he turns into a “wolf” at night).

    My problem with the scene is that Theon didn’t know where he was after years spent at Winterfell where one might have assumed he had been to Deepwood Mott or as some suggest the Dreadfort. But he was probably so turned around by circumstance and his wounds that I was willing to suspend my disbelief.

  52. EASY
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Yeah really book readers (I am one too) just don’t hint or say this person is your favorite character or anything like that. It basically gives away important plot twists that the Unsullied need to experience on there own. Case and point I am an Unsullied Aiel of the Aiel Wast reading “The Wheel of Time” series and after 4 books I think its awesome with lots of comparison to this series. I have friends who have finished them but they have vowed to keep me Unsullied by not telling me things that go as far to not even say who their favorite characters are because those are key pieces to the ever forming puzzle.

    Just my 2 cents. Non Book readers enjoy and just tune out us Bookies the minute we get to talking. That is all.

  53. Dickon Manwoody
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear:
    And I finally got some answers about the Spider! Not his physiology, his motives. I knew he was a rival to Littlefinger, I didn’t know he really thinks the man is as dangerous as Joffrey

    Littlefinger is probably the most dangerously ambitious player in the game. But he’s so frickin’ chaotic, no one can really understand what his goals are. Even in the books, his intentions are vague.

  54. Hexonx
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Shock Me: I disagree. His ears pricked up at the mention of “those two boys” and he led the conversation after that. While it may not have been his main goal, other than a ransom, that knowledge about the Stark boys was the only thing of value that Theon possessed. Control of those boys is more important than even control of Sansa Stark. After all, Bran is Lord of Winterfell and potentially a Prince of the North assuming the Northern Lords permit it.

    I agree that it is good info for him to have but my point is that is not the reason he did the whole fake escape attempt.

  55. Shock Me
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    EASY,

    I LOVE the Wheel of Time Series. It is one of my all-time favorites. It is also a great time to read it since the series is finally finished and you can read them straight through. It leans more heavily on magic than ASOIAF, but the characters are super memorable. May you find shade.

  56. Shock Me
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    Hexonx,

    Well, true the archer with the crazy eyes might just be getting his jollies, but he strikes me as too smart for that.

  57. Lisa
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Targaryen,

    The remains of her Khalassar were seen riding on horses in the final wide shot.

  58. Theon's Missing Junk
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear,

    Yes! I also found that scene funny in a black humor kind of way. I’m actually a huge Theon fan and find his character fascinating, but the way he got trickfucked.. wow. “Boy” is such a complete asshole hahaha! Its ki d of hilaroous the lengths he will go to elaborately fuck with Theon

  59. Yago
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    EASY,

    Shock Me,

    Reading that series right now, but I actually don’t like it that much. Everything is quite predictable, and cliché, all female characters seem to be b*tch*s who despise all that is male, and the male characters act like they’re 12 yo boys, not 20 yo men. Also, the first book really was like a copy of the LOTR… I’ll keep on reading though, only on the second book right now.

  60. Turri
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Shock Me,
    Hodor, hodor “hodor” hodor, hodor ho-dor! Hodor hodor hodor hodor, hodor hodor Hodor’s hodor hodor. Hodor?

  61. Shock Me
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    Yago,

    In fairness to The Wheel of Time, certain men have a well-deserved reputation for destruction. I actually put the first book down for a year since the world-building was too dense to follow and Robert Jordan never took much time for exposition. I was really glad to pick it back up. With respect to the strong resemblance to LOTR, I suspect that feeling will go away by book 4 of 13.

  62. Shock Me
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    Turri,

    HODOR :)

  63. Gregory Kelton
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    Patchface:
    predat0rian,

    Yes it is the same guy, and yes it would seem redundant, but only because hes PSYCHO and they wanna show how messed up he is.

    Is it just me, or should people not be posting ANYTHING in this thread that requires a spoiler block? In other words, IN THIS THREAD, if you have to block out your words, you probably shouldn’t be typing them at all.

  64. Gregory Kelton
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    mellowjohn:
    seems to me that if you have just purchased an army of slave-soldiers who obey all orders w/o question, you would now be their master (mistress, actually), especially if you’re literally holding their ceremonial whip. you might then want to be careful about issuing orders like “kill all the masters. kill everyone with a whip.”

    Actually, I’m pretty sure if you look carefully she says “Any MAN with a whip”.

    But that’s a little quibble, your point is still well made. Probably could have done with a bit more careful choice of words. Most people won’t notice/care.

  65. Lady Mychelle
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Beric was in season 1 when Ned ordered him to go find and kill the Mountani.
    Margaery offered her other brother (the crippled one) to Sansa, not Loras.
    Loras is Kingsguard. they cannot marry

  66. Dana
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    Lady Mychelle,

    She said the name “Loras”

  67. Lisa
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    Lady Mychelle,

    What are you talking about? Margaery distinctly said “Loras” when she spoke to Sansa, which made Sansa very happy because she has a huge crush on Loras. All of which points to this poor girl’s ability to judge good husband material (Joffrey, Loras) is either woefully under-developed or entirely broken.

  68. Not Today
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Lady Mychelle:
    Beric was in season 1 when Ned ordered him to go find and kill the Mountani.
    Margaery offered her other brother (the crippled one) to Sansa, not Loras.
    Loras is Kingsguard. they cannot marry

    That’s what happens when book readers post in here. Just don’t do it, you’re mixing up TV and book events. They’re clearly talking about Loras in that scene and Loras is not a Kingsguard member in the show.

  69. Isabella
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Lady Mychelle,

    Loras is not in the Kingsguard. There has been no mention of another Tyrell brother.

    Also, I really don’t think people who have read the books should comment on the newbie threads.

  70. Nerd
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    So, Pod + Prodigy = Podigy?

  71. Mike Chair
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer,

    Please, please, please DO keep doing that. My wife doesn’t watch, but if she did, that is exactly what she’d sound like. She’s done it on other shows, like The Walking Dead or Downton Abbey. If she went to bed early and I saw the episode, I’ll watch it again with her. She just like your wife. I love it.

    I’m looking forward to your next week’s, My Wife Said This During GoT.

  72. Dana
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair,

    I agree… its awesome

  73. Dana
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    I’m having a major blank moment, and although i am probably going to watch this episode a few times, can someone remind me what happened in the scene with Bran and Jojen. I know he had a dream, and climbed the tree to catch the three eyed raven, and he argued with his mom, and fell to wake up. What happened after??? Did Jojen tell him something???
    its bugging me i cannot remember

  74. Hexonx
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Dana,

    iirc he just gives Bran a knowing look but didn’t say anything. Then it cut to the next scene.

  75. Dana
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Hexonx,

    oh! I thought maybe so!! Thank you!!

  76. Caulker
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    Great ep! It’s only the 4th one and already it’s reaching epic levels of awesomeness! That scene with Dany at the end, her throwing away the whip, the unsullied marching out of the city… wow. That scene was like a season closer, and it’s only episode 4?? Where can it go from here? We can’t have Dany invading Westeros just yet can we?

    Best moment: During Dany’s speech to the unsullied at the end Barristan and Mormont exchanged a look that said; Oh yeah, i think we’re on the right team, dude!

  77. Turncloak
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Lady Mychelle:
    Beric was in season 1 when Ned ordered him to go find and kill the Mountani.
    Margaery offered her other brother (the crippled one) to Sansa, not Loras.
    Loras is Kingsguard. they cannot marry

    Marg offered Loras to Sansa. In the show Loras is not part of the kingsguard.

  78. Yavannie
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    As a book reader, I love reading these comments. And as a book reader, 90% of the other book readers piss me off no end. Go discuss in the other thread already.

  79. Dan Spicer
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    lebaf,

    I haven’t told her anything. It’s hard, but I don’t want to ruin anything for her. When she presses, I hand her a book and tell her to read it herself. After some events happen, I sometimes tell her that it happened differently in the books, or they mashed things up to get the same result.

  80. john
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    These non-reader threads always lure me into a false sense of security. Readers have this odd sense that they’re superior than us because they’ve read a freaking book, that any of us could pick up and read at any time. We’ve specifically chosen NOT to read the books because we want to enjoy the show first. OK?

    The problem is that they’ll continue to infest these threads which is why I am going to avoid them from now on.

    The best non-spoiler discussion I’ve seen is over at televisionwithoutpity.com, probably because they don’t allow anonymous posters.

  81. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    I thought he was there to ge any information that Theon would spill without prompting, like playing good cop bad cop where one of them is just listening to you ramble.

    And by the way, it seems I wasn’t wrong about the brothel being used to spy on Pod, but I was wrong about Littlefinger wanting information on Tyrion and thus wrong about Littlefinger being okay with the girls not getting the money for an extended session with so many girls. At least he is too preoccupied to care about the money now. I wonder who will run the brothel in his absence?
    Hexonx,

  82. Roffel
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    That was well written. Thanks for the review!

  83. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    I’ve heard the TV without pity forum had people who only pretend not to have read the books and disguised their spoilers as innocent speculation.
    john,

  84. Dana
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    Who the eff voted 1/5, 2/5, 3/5?
    you 12 people show yourselves!!!!!

  85. That chubby kid
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer,

    Thank you so much for posting!!!
    I laughed out loud in the quiet doctors office waiting room. It would be fabulously entertaining if someone would post an article after each episode that contains the exclamations that nonreaders blurt out during the show. It makes me wish I could host a GOT viewing party every week…I used to have donut/viewing parties for twin peaks.

    Hey, wouldn’t it be great if we could put a web cam on our unsullied friends and relatives and then post it split screen with the show footage. I would gladly rewatch the show with people’s priceless reactions to the plot twists….omg someone please make this happen.

  86. Naten53
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Turri: Shock Me,Hodor, hodor “hodor” hodor, hodor ho-dor! Hodor hodor hodor hodor, hodor hodor Hodor’s hodor hodor. Hodor?

    HODOR!

  87. TheImp'sNose
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    Anyone who whines about that episode is whining just to whine, and should probably just admit that they are not going to be able to enjoy the television show on it’s own merits, and stick to the books. That simple.

    That was one of the finest hours of T.V. I have ever watched, in any genre, at any time. Superb.

  88. Aqui
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    The best end of episode ever!!

  89. Suzaku
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    “In a man’s humble opinion, there is just nothing else out there that really measures up to this show.”

    As much as I love Game of Thrones, and the books its based on, I still can’t help but feel that it’s still not on the same level as Breaking Bad.

    Knowing what’s coming later this season, maybe Game of Thrones will usurp it this year, but probably not…

    That said, Game of Thrones comes in at a close second. Although, Boardwalk Empire… Hmm…

  90. Marco
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Yago,

    OK. Thanks Yago. That makes sense.

  91. SockMonkeh
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    john:
    These non-reader threads always lure me into a false sense of security. Readers have this odd sense that they’re superior than us because they’ve read a freaking book, that any of us could pick up and read at any time. We’ve specifically chosen NOT to read the books because we want to enjoy the show first. OK?

    The problem is that they’ll continue to infest these threads which is why I am going to avoid them from now on.

    The best non-spoiler discussion I’ve seen is over at televisionwithoutpity.com, probably because they don’t allow anonymous posters.

    I think the only way to fix this is to force registration and have an account option for whether you read the books or not. People could still deliberately break the rules, but at least you wouldn’t have people doing it out of stupidity anymore.

  92. Nikola S
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    I have only one thing to say after this episode:

    “I Am Daenerys Stormborn and I will take what is mine. WITH FIRE AND BLOOD!”

    Freaking awesome episode!

  93. Jenny
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    If people always did what they were asked to do and promised to do, there’d be no prisons and no divorces —> regarding book idiots.
    Self importance is humanity’s driving force.

  94. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Oh Jaime. I seriously don’t even care that you pork your sister and you murder kings and you push kids out of windows, I just want to hug you. Kudos to Nikolaj for successfully mastering “utterly defeated”.

    Did anyone else think the look on the Boy’s face as Theon was strung back up in the torture chamber was creepy? What a freakin’ psycho.

    I get “fahklempt” every time Bran sees his family members in his dreams. The Starks were only happy for ONE EPISODE , if you count Bran falling as the end to their normal life.

    The only time I ever have an inkling of anything but hatred for Cersei anymore is when she is in a scene with Tywin, he is ice cold. I wonder who Tywin was writing to….

    RIP Jeor Mormont.

    Varys: I am not really interested in V as a character right now, I have to be honest. Plus I keep having to suppress the urge to refer to him as Uncle Fester Light.

    Dany: Get it, girl!

  95. Wolfman27
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    Suzaku,

    I love Breaking Bad, but I’d still have to put GoT above it. I just love the characters of GoT so much more than the ones in BB. But to each their own!
    Haven’t gotten around to Boardwalk Empire yet, but I’ve heard that is good as well.

  96. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    Overall, I liked this episode. Conleth Hill stole every scene he was in, even the one with Diana Rigg. Bran’s dream was cryptic, he still cannot remember what really happened when he fell.

    I can’t say I was surprised to see the desperately hungry men of the Night’s Watch attack Craster, but I didn’t expect they’d go as far as murdering their Lord Commander. That was a bit of a shock, looking forward to the tombstone post later this week. Nice to see Sam lead Gilly and her son away from the mayhem, right into the forbidding forest between there and the wall. I suspect the gods Craster prayed to aren’t going to just grin and bear that.

    The dialogue between Theon and his captor was partially enlightening:

    Theon: “I murdered those boys.”
    His captor: “The Stark boys?”

    Evidently, the point of the whole escape charade was to gain Theon’s confidence and get him to talk while his guard was down. Interesting, though, that his captor would be so interested in Bran and Rickon. Hmmm.

    Theon: “And now, I’ve burned everything down.”
    His captor: “Not everything, m’lord.” Opens the gate. “She’s up here.”

    Was he talking about the actual sack of Winterfell or the one metaphorical bridge Theon hasn’t burnt yet – the one to his sister Yara? Arrrrghh, the ambiguity! Well played, D&D.

    Nevertheless, I had a few quibbles with the script:

    1) Ros perpetuating the Podrick-is-a-sex-god story made no sense to me. I expected her to reveal that Varys had footed the bill in order to gain inside info on Tyrion’s private life from the squire. Men talk when they’re happy and all that. Of course, Ros does still work for LF and he’s probably just as interested.

    2) For all the VFX, the showdown in Astapor left me a bit underwhelmed.

    No living person there had ever seen an actual fire-breathing dragon, so I expected to see fear in the eyes of the Unsullied – perhaps even a collective gasp – when Dany took one out of its cage. However, that didn’t happen.

    I also expected the slave trader would have a plan for double-crossing Dany before she had a chance to do it to him. After all, when you sell off an army of mercenaries, there’s always a risk they’ll be used against you. It would have been entirely in keeping with his chauvinism to strike the bargain in the belief that the Unsullied would never take orders from a woman. He could have tested this by commanding them to attack her, only to have them ignore him. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen.

    Moreover, the slave trader wouldn’t have entered into the deal unless he believed he could control the dragon as soon as it became his property. He would either have acquired the relevant command(s) independently of Dany or else, she would have had to give him a demo prior to his handing over the whip. She could even have warned him at that time that a dragon is not a slave. Imagine if after that exchange, had given his new WMD the order – with a sarcastic “pretty please” – to attack the army she was about to address, only to find the flamethrower directed at himself without so much as a whisper from her. Sadly, that didn’t happen, either.

    Finally, I expected Dany to free her Unsullied *before* the sack of the city. Missed opportunity #4 IMHO, though perhaps not quite as important.

  97. WildSeed
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    Amusing Recap and Letter to Davos. This was really a fresh take on the episode.
    The ” drug deal gone bad” at Craster’s didn’t say much to lament ser Mormont,
    but I can forgive that. The Dragonstone Inn, among other tidbits, had me LMAO.

  98. WildSeed
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer:
    My wife, the non-book reader had as many questions/comments as usual.She seems to really enjoy Lady Olenna.Every time she speaks my wife giggles…She utterd the word, “Bastard.” half a heat beat before that Night’s watch guy did, and yelled, “No!, Not Him, I liked him!” When Mormont got killed.On Tywin, “Who is getting these letters he’s writing?They keep showing him writing letters, who is he writing to?Tell me.You know, don’t you?Just tell me who he is writing letters to?”On Joff, “She kills him with his crossbow, right?”That’s why they showed her with it, right?Just tell me if she shoots him.I hate him. I hope he dies.He dies, right?”On Jaime and Briennee, “As soon as he does one nice thing that shit happens.What the f–k?I guess he deserved it.Do they end up doing it?They do, don’t they?”On Theon, “I don’t get it…Oh!!!He told him the Stark boys aren’t dead, is that it?”On Dany, “This guy (Kraznys) is such an asshole.She understood all that other stuff he was saying, that’s funny!I knew it, I knew it, I knew.I knew she was going to tell her dragon to kill that guy.”Watches previews, then “how many episodes are left?6?They need to have more, ten isn’t enough when you have to wait a year.”

    Buy the lady a round of Blonde Ale (; sounds like you both are having an adventure
    to watch the show…… a pleasant one.

  99. WildSeed
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair:
    Dan Spicer,

    Please, please, please DO keep doing that.My wife doesn’t watch, but if she did, that is exactly what she’d sound like.She’s done it on other shows, like The Walking Dead or Downton Abbey.If she went to bed early and I saw the episode, I’ll watch it again with her.She just like your wife.I love it.

    I’m looking forward to your next week’s, My Wife Said This During GoT.

    Put out the Fishfingers and Custard for the break or quiet scenes, then celebrate
    with some Arbor Gold when the episode is over and time for more burning questions.
    Arbor Gold does go with Fishfingers, doesn’t it ? Or is it Sister’s Stew ?

  100. Cal Van Hamacek
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    So good… That look on Rheon’s face when he brings Theon back to the torture chamber – like he was just getting a little orgasm from it – haunts me. Dany’s story this season is really starting to flourish, and is probably the most exciting arc, along with Jaime’s. The Night’s watch storyline has generally been quite slow and brooding, so good to finally see the seeds grow into poisonous flowers, the way only GoT can do it. Jaime was wretched as fuck after his ordeal, and I have to say I’m amazed how much they’ve fit in his storyline with so little screen time each week (actually like every character this season). I can’t help but feel that this season is more personal than season 2 (not as much as S1, but there were so fewer storylines). My favorite line of the night was “[Littlefinger] would see this city burn of he could be king of the ashes.” Chills. 5/5

  101. GeekFurious
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    A friend decided to make this episode her first… which inspired me to write this:

    http://geekfurious.blogspot.com/2013/04/why-i-want-to-kill-you.html

  102. Gatorfisch
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    Targaryen:
    Ok, I am a non reader, but why is it that every week people keep boasting about Hodor on here? The guy probably has said a total of 20 words on this series, but even the 1st comment of the day is about Hodor.

    I honestly think it’s just that it’s so funny how he just always says “Hodor”. It’s like a running joke. Hodor rules.

  103. johnnytata
    Posted April 22, 2013 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    half of book readers, of which i am one (hopefully not one of the bad half) feel entitled to the property, as if they wrote or have complete dominion of the contents. they lord oven the non book-readers with ridiculously unfounded superiority complexes, they love to be the ones to spoil for some antisocial thrills, and they complain about deviations like someone just kicked their puppy.

    i like these posts and threads because, as someone said before, its fun to see people speculate, figure things out, emote and react, reminds me of how i felt when i was a virgin, and i can live vicariously through that. also, it’s nice to hear the opinions of people who have no preset agenda.

    don’t spoil the fruit!!!!

  104. Stannis JACKASS?
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:46 am | Permalink

    Beric isn’t a new character. Ned ordered him in s1 to carry this out.

    Also you referring to Stannis as a jackass is quite depressing. I hope when you do read the books, you’ll realise how wrong you are and what an insult that was to him and his legions of fans.

    If anything, Stannis is the ONLY one not motivated by greed, but purely by duty. He doesn’t WANT the Iron Throne, he thinks it’s merely his duty to do it.

  105. Dogmayor
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:52 am | Permalink

    Stannis JACKASS?,

    I agree, but I think the blame lies with the show’s writers. They have really butchered Stannis’s character.

  106. ASOIAF
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:52 am | Permalink

    Gregory Kelton: Is it just me, or should people not be posting ANYTHING in this thread that requires a spoiler block?In other words, IN THIS THREAD, if you have to block out your words, you probably shouldn’t be typing them at all.

    There’s a lotttt more book readers than tv only viewers and we like to read your non-book reader comments because we like to imagine being in that same state of mind we were in when we first read the books.

    Your reactions make it more entertaining for us.

    I don’t understand why there are people commenting spoilers either – but it’s probably for the majority of people visiting here who ARE book readers and so can follow through with the complete thought and appreciate what the other book reader said still without spoiling the rest of you.

  107. Restore The Day
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:02 am | Permalink

    And you posted this here why, exactly?!

    Adam:
    The Daenerys scene, one of my favorites in the whole series, was as awesome as expected.

    Comment for the Sullied:

    some spoilers

  108. bucktick
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:05 am | Permalink

    EASY:
    Just my 2 cents.Non Book readers enjoy and just tune out us Bookies the minute we get to talking.That is all.

    In general I would agree. However, maybe I’m just CrAzY but wouldn’t it be great if we didn’t have to “tune out” bookreaders in the one thread a week that IS NOT FOR BOOKREADERS? …IMO

  109. grumpycetacean
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:33 am | Permalink

    Jaime and Theon both did such horrible things, but this ep made me feel sorry for the both of them. Jaime with the rotting hand around his neck, can almost forget how he had Stark’s men killed, pushed Bran, etc. Just felt bad for a broken man. The guy that tricked Theon had crazyface when he flipped back to jailer, creepy, scary dude. Feel bad things on the horizon for poor Theon. I know he did sickening things, but I can’t help liking him. The hound, too…forgot about Micah, but he’s too interesting to die. Wanna know about Patchface too so I hope he doesn’t die either, but I thought trial by combat had to end in a death.

    The BWB are interesting, I want to root for them, but they’re into the Red Priestess’ religion, so I wonder if they’re in cahoots with her. I have mixed feelings about her, but like everyone else I hate Stannis and don’t want anyone helping him get on the throne. I am hoping Sam and Jon meet up soon, but with Jon’s cohort I guess that might not end well. Was SO sad to see the Lord Commander get stabbed from behind, he deserved better. Was hoping he’d stay alive long enough to meet up with his son too. I like too many of the characters and don’t want them to die, but this is GoT so some of them have to die. And yet Joff lives on…

    yay for the unsullied review!!!

  110. ASOIAF
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 2:04 am | Permalink

    grumpycetacean:
    Jaime and Theon both did such horrible things, but this ep made me feel sorry for the both of them.Jaime with the rotting hand around his neck, can almost forget how he had Stark’s men killed, pushed Bran, etc. Just felt bad for a broken man. The guy that tricked Theon had crazyface when he flipped back to jailer, creepy, scary dude.Feel bad things on the horizon for poor Theon.I know he did sickening things, but I can’t help liking him. The hound, too…forgot about Micah, but he’s too interesting to die. Wanna know about Patchface too so I hope he doesn’t die either, but I thought trial by combat had to end in a death.

    The BWB are interesting, I want to root for them, but they’re into the Red Priestess’ religion, so I wonder if they’re in cahoots with her. I have mixed feelings about her, but like everyone else I hate Stannis and don’t want anyone helping him get on the throne. I am hoping Sam and Jon meet up soon, but with Jon’s cohort I guess that might not end well. Was SO sad to see the Lord Commander get stabbed from behind, he deserved better. Was hoping he’d stay alive long enough to meet up with his son too. I like too many of the characters and don’t want them to die, but this is GoT so some of them have to die. And yet Joff lives on…

    yay for the unsullied review!!!

    Great reply. This is the type of tv-only comments I come here to see.

  111. Tar Kidho
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 2:14 am | Permalink

    john: Readers have this odd sense that they’re superior than us because they’ve read a freaking book, that any of us could pick up and read at any time. We’ve specifically chosen NOT to read the books because we want to enjoy the show first. OK?

    98.53% of the book readers(*) actually find those spoiler-containing “I’ll give you a hint” entries as irritating as you. You might want to focus your hate for book readers to the remaining 1.47% and offer appologies to the rest of us…

    (*I’ve done some clever statistics on that, for I’m so superior mathematically!)

  112. Stannis
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 4:46 am | Permalink

    Simple. Book readers comment on the book reader thread. Don’t bring your beef steak to the vegetarian club.

  113. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin:
    Overall, I liked this episode. Conleth Hill stole every scene he was in, even the one with Diana Rigg. Bran’s dream was cryptic, he still cannot remember what really happened when he fell.

    I can’t say I was surprised to see the desperately hungry men of the Night’s Watch attack Craster, but I didn’t expect they’d go as far as murdering their Lord Commander. That was a bit of a shock, looking forward to the tombstone post later this week. Nice to see Sam lead Gilly and her son away from the mayhem, right into the forbidding forest between there and the wall. I suspect the gods Craster prayed to aren’t going to just grin and bear that.

    The dialogue between Theon and his captor was partially enlightening:

    Theon: “I murdered those boys.”
    His captor: “The Stark boys?”

    Evidently, the point of the whole escape charade was to gain Theon’s confidence and get him to talk while his guard was down. Interesting, though, that his captor would be so interested in Bran and Rickon. Hmmm.

    Theon: “And now, I’ve burned everything down.”
    His captor: “Not everything, m’lord.” Opens the gate. “She’s up here.”

    Was he talking about the actual sack of Winterfell or the one metaphorical bridge Theon hasn’t burnt yet – the one to his sister Yara? Arrrrghh, the ambiguity! Well played, D&D.

    Nevertheless, I had a few quibbles with the script:

    1) Ros perpetuating the Podrick-is-a-sex-god story made no sense to me. I expected her to reveal that Varys had footed the bill in order to gain inside info on Tyrion’s private life from the squire. Men talk when they’re happy and all that. Of course, Ros does still work for LF and he’s probably just as interested.

    2) For all the VFX, the showdown in Astapor left me a bit underwhelmed.

    No living person there had ever seen an actual fire-breathing dragon, so I expected to see fear in the eyes of the Unsullied – perhaps even a collective gasp – when Dany took one out of its cage. However, that didn’t happen.

    I also expected the slave trader would have a plan for double-crossing Dany before she had a chance to do it to him. After all, when you sell off an army of mercenaries, there’s always a riskthey’ll be used against you. It would have been entirely in keeping with his chauvinism to strike the bargain in the belief that the Unsullied would never take orders from a woman. He could have tested this by commanding them to attack her, only to have them ignore him. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen.

    Moreover, the slave trader wouldn’t have entered into the deal unless he believed he could control the dragon as soon as it became his property. He would either have acquired the relevant command(s) independently of Dany or else, she would have had to give him a demo prior to his handing over the whip. She could even have warned him at that time that a dragon is not a slave. Imagine if after that exchange, had given his new WMD the order – with a sarcastic “pretty please” – to attack the army she was about to address, only to find the flamethrower directed at himself without so much as a whisper from her. Sadly, that didn’t happen, either.

    Finally, I expected Dany to free her Unsullied *before* the sack of the city. Missed opportunity #4 IMHO, though perhaps not quite as important.

    Man you really have some issues…after uncovering you as either a book reader or someone who knows what will happen after reading spoilers, you disappear for 2 weeks and now come back with a much less insightful analysis trying again to pass yourself as an unsullied…I hope this helps you somehow.

  114. Dana
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    Wow… your comments are totally uncalled for, opinion or not. LOL

    The Dany scene was flawless.
    and @ your comment about asking Dany to show him to command the dragon – the purpose of the way it played out is to show you how stupid and greedy the slave trader is that he didnt even think of such things. The look on his face when saw the dragon was like a kid in a candy store x 1million.

    And why would she” free” the unsullied before they destroy the city? whats the point? she destroys the city ensuring her defeat, and then frees them

  115. Theon Rules!
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Hey everyone!
    Posted here quite a bit last season, but first time this season. A couple observations…..

    1. As my posting handle implies, I am a big Theon fan and the other night just made me sympathize with him even more. I understand he did some horrible things in S2 and his actions were a little bit sheepish, but they were all out of the sense of duty he felt to his father and his house. As can be seen from this episode, Theon really just wanted to be a true Stark, and while he was treated well and loved by them, he was never going to be able to be recognized as a true family member. The whole sequence where he referred to Ned as his true father just tore my heart out.

    2. Even though I saw the Astapoor storyline coming from a mile away, it didn’t make it any less awesome. I’m not a big Daenerys fan, but that was awesome. It will be interesting to see how long it takes her to make her way to Westeros.

    3. I really hope The Hound finds some way to make it out of the situation he is currently in. I know it’s probably difficult for the Brotherhood to trust him given his past actions, but it seems like he’d be a good fit to join them given his current state of mind and views. I don’t feel like he did anything that any of his captors wouldn’t have done if they were in the same situations he was put into. (Totally off topic, but Thoros is an awesome character and I hope he sticks around for a bit.)

    4. This is just more of a broad thought on the season as a whole. I think the first 4 episodes have been tremendous. The writing has been great. The stories have been great. The acting has been great. And visually, this season has reached a whole new level. I just think they have too much on their plate in terms of characters, storylines, and locations. I feel like they’re doing the best job they can with the time they are given, but it’s just a task that I don’t feel anyone could accomplish. I feel like we’re losing touch with some of the characters, by giving them such little screen time, because there’s no time for character development, only time to further their plot lines. I just wish we could get longer episodes (say 75 minutes) or maybe a 13-15 episode season. I know budget and filming wise, that would be a whole different animal, but it just seems like they’re strapped for time and it sucks, because every story line has me pulled in this season. Except for Bran’s, which seems like it is just filler. For example, we’ll get 1 scene for a given character on a given week that last 60 seconds, and then nothing the rest of the episode. I’d rather them just take 3 storylines, focus on them deeply one week, and then revisit them in one of the next 2 episodes.

    Again, not really a criticism of the show runners. Just recognizing that this season just feels jammed, and I don’t think there’s really any way it could be fixed.

  116. EASY
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    Shock Me,

    And you may share my water. Taishar Monetheron!

    It is a good series way more SciFi than ASOIAF though but I like it. There are lots and lots of parallels to between the 2 fantasy worlds.

  117. EASY
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    Yago:
    EASY,

    Shock Me,

    Reading that series right now, but I actually don’t like it that much. Everything is quite predictable, and cliché, all female characters seem to be b*tch*s who despise all that is male, and the male characters act like they’re 12 yo boys, not 20 yo men. Also, the first book really was like a copy of the LOTR… I’ll keep on reading though, only on the second book right now.

    I agree. The book gets better… Well the male characters do at least the females to my understand only get more annoying as their power grows so holdfast on that but Rand, Perrin, Matrim, Lan, Loyel and others you have not been introduced to yet are pretty darn awesome and I am only 5 books in.

  118. EASY
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    bucktick: In general I would agree.However, maybe I’m just CrAzY but wouldn’t it be great if we didn’t have to “tune out” bookreaders in the one thread a week that IS NOT FOR BOOKREADERS?…IMO

    I agree but that is like asking a fly to kill an elephant… It just aint gonna happen.

  119. Targaryen
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear: I thought he was there to ge any information that Theon would spill without prompting, like playing good cop bad cop where one of them is just listening to you ramble.And by the way, it seems I wasn’t wrong about the brothel being used to spy on Pod, but I was wrong about Littlefinger wanting information on Tyrion and thus wrong about Littlefinger being okay with the girls not getting the money for an extended session with so many girls. At least he is too preoccupied to care about the money now. I wonder who will run the brothel in his absence?Hexonx,

    I totally agree. This post should be pinned

  120. Nikola S
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    Correcty if Im wrong, but didnt Daenerys ask for the +8000 Unsullied + a few thousand more that were still in training?

    Meaning that here force could be well over 11 000? That last scene sure wasnt “only” 8000. =D

  121. Deez
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    I feel like with all the good scenes from the last episode, one that hasn’t been discussed too much is the intro (re-intro i guess) of Beric Dondarion. I loved his scene, and could a book reader, without any spoiler just let me know exactly how bad azz is this guy, because the hound really does not seem too excited when Beric says he’s the one he has to fight. And I don’t recall the hound being intimidated by many.

  122. Trent
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Deez:
    I feel like with all the good scenes from the last episode, one that hasn’t been discussed too much is the intro (re-intro i guess) of Beric Dondarion. I loved his scene, and could a book reader, without any spoiler just let me know exactly how bad azz is this guy, because the hound really does not seem too excited when Beric says he’s the one he has to fight. And I don’t recall the hound being intimidated by many.

    Unsullied here…I don’t think there’s any way to answer your question without any spoiler. Let’s hope any responses are protected with Spoiler tags. Let’s just assume he’s pretty “bad azz” to be willing to take on The Hound, and then wait for a week or two to find out? :-)

  123. Trent
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    Tar Kidho: 98.53% of the book readers(*) actually find those spoiler-containing “I’ll give you a hint” entries as irritating as you. You might want to focus your hate for book readers to the remaining 1.47% and offer appologies to the rest of us…

    I agree with this. I’ve taken up for the the book readers before because I basically think there’s a silent majority who read without posting, or who read and post useful / non-spoiler content. And most of the folks who respond with spoilers are not trying to be jerks, and might not think of their content as annoying/spoilerish (e.g., “just wait until later in the season, you might change your mind…”).

    There are really only a small handful of asshats who deserve our vitriol, so I’d urge not to generalize these few to all book-readers.

  124. Trent
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Agreed that the Danaerys section was great, if not mostly predictable. I guess the only thing that bothers me is…why would Kraznys accept her deal for a dragon? He sells slaves for money– lots of money– and based on the math he did a few weeks ago, those 8000 plus trainees represent a fortune to him. Does he think he’s going to sell the dragon to somebody? Is he going to put it on Craigslist? And– assuming he has half a brain– does he really think a dragon is like a dog or a horse who will obey a new master? Except that this dog breathes fire. Anyway, it just seemed a little loose to me. Maybe we’re to believe that even a savvy businessman gets a bit wide-eyed at the possibility of (theoretically) owning a dragon– thought to be extinct.

    Smaller nit– which might be resolved/explained in the coming weeks…but how is Dany going to FEED 11,000 soldiers? How is she going to TRANSPORT them? Maybe she’ll loot the remains of the city? In any event…I’m sure she has a plan.

    Although I was initially amused, I’m now a bit annoyed at the Podrick/sex God thing. Did somebody say here that this was created for the show, or did I hear that somewhere else? If that’s true, it seems silly and cheap by HBO. I guess their skin and humor quotient was perceived to be too low.

    I too hope The Hound doesn’t die…or at least dies honorably somehow. I still want to see him bump into the Red Sorceress someday…y’know…cuz of the whole fire thing. It rather worries me that Gendry, the only other Baratheon blood I can think of, is in the hands of another Lord of Light type. Maybe an old friend of Melissandre?

    I’m not sure why Sam thought he needed to flee with Gilly and the boy. Who is he really helping there, anybody? Best to keep his head low during the melee and then take inventory of the situation. I just didn’t see it quite so dire that he had to flee, especially once Craster was out of the picture.

  125. Deborah
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    I am a book reader and I like to check this out because sometimes you guys come up with connections I never did when reading the books. I would never spoil it for anyone which is hard for me when watching with my non-reader husband as I tend to blurt things out. At least I can re-read this and make sure I did not spoil anything before I send it.

    Why am I telling you all this? Just because I am in love with the fact that you call yourselves the unsullied. I will call my husband that from now on.

  126. telobsidion
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Deez,

    watch and find out

  127. telobsidion
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    EASY: I agree.The book gets more annoying as their power grows so holdfast on that but Rand, Perrin, Matrim, better… Well the male characters do at least the females to my understand only get Lan, Loyel and others you have not been introduced to yet are pretty darn awesome and I am only 5 books in.

    It’s a LONG series. Where Martin manages to subvert a lot of tropes in ASoIaF, Jordan takes the stereotypical fantasy tropes and masters them, fleshing them out to insane lengths so that they’re no longer tropes. EotW, the first book in the series, is a little cliche, but Jordan begins to find his writing style in The Great Hunt, and he really takes the series somewhere special as it keeps going. I will warn that in the middle area, books 8-10, there’s not a lot of plot gratification. It narrows down to focus on subplots and political maneuvering. I still enjoyed it, but some people find that section a drag.

  128. telobsidion
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    EDIT: Nevermind. Sorry for the triple post.

  129. iRaven
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    Deez:
    I feel like with all the good scenes from the last episode, one that hasn’t been discussed too much is the intro (re-intro i guess) of Beric Dondarion. I loved his scene, and could a book reader, without any spoiler just let me know exactly how bad azz is this guy, because the hound really does not seem too excited when Beric says he’s the one he has to fight. And I don’t recall the hound being intimidated by many.

    The show shall answer your questions.

  130. Deez
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Trent: Unsullied here…I don’t think there’s any way to answer your question without any spoiler.Let’s hope any responses are protected with Spoiler tags.Let’s just assume he’s pretty “bad azz” to be willing to take on The Hound, and then wait for a week or two to find out?:-)

    I guess more of what I am asking is there more back story on him in the book, we really haven’t heard much about him besides in season one Ned Stark seemed to think pretty highly of him. That scene was so dope gotta love a leader who is willing to do their own dirty work, I’ll be pissed if he dies so soon.

  131. Deez
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    And I agree, that the Dany scene was super obv, no way she was going to give up a dragon. But somehow I was still blown away at the awesomeness of that scene even though I saw it coming. Jeroh is pretty dumb to question her, don’t know why he’d think she would ever give up one of her “children”.

  132. iRaven
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Deez: I guess more of what I am asking is there more back story on him in the book, we really haven’t heard much about him besides in season one Ned Stark seemed to think pretty highly of him. That scene was so dope gotta love a leader who is willing to do their own dirty work, I’ll be pissed if he dies so soon.

    I’ll just say there’s no way to answer your question without a spoiler, you’ll just have to watch.

  133. Deez
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    iRaven: I’ll just say there’s no way to answer your question without a spoiler, you’ll just have to watch.

    Cool, thanks, guess I’ll have to not read anymore comments on this then till after next week, cuz I know some tool will ruin it.

  134. Targaryen
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    All I have to say is that Dany’s new slave girl is FINE!!! Even the Dothraki hand maidens were good looking. The one that she closed in the vault was fine too.

  135. WildSeed
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    grumpycetacean:
    Jaime and Theon both did such horrible things, but this ep made me feel sorry for the both of them. Jaime with the rotting hand around his neck, can almost forget how he had Stark’s men killed, pushed Bran, etc. Just felt bad for a broken man. The guy that tricked Theon had crazyface when he flipped back to jailer, creepy, scary dude. Feel bad things on the horizon for poor Theon. I know he did sickening things, but I can’t help liking him. The hound, too…forgot about Micah, but he’s too interesting to die. Wanna know about Patchface too so I hope he doesn’t die either, but I thought trial by combat had to end in a death.

    You’re on to something there……… GRRM likes to toy with readers emotions too.
    You cannot write being off without respecting something about their strengths
    or weaknesses. Theon’s story is not over until it’s over……….

  136. Gatorfisch
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    Deez: I guess more of what I am asking is there more back story on him in the book, we really haven’t heard much about him besides in season one Ned Stark seemed to think pretty highly of him. That scene was so dope gotta love a leader who is willing to do their own dirty work, I’ll be pissed if he dies so soon.

    This is one instance where we “sullied” can only say…you have to wait and see. You will thank us for not saying anything…I promise.

  137. Shock Me
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    Nikola S,

    Given the size of each individual formation I counted at least 12,000 not counting mounted Dothraki.

  138. telobsidion
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    Deez,

    This next part isn’t a spoiler, but it’s a book comparison (and one I don’t think will bother a lot of people), but I’ll put it in tags anyway. What you know is basically what book readers knew of him at this point. At the Tourney of the Hand (book/season 1), Sansa takes note of him, but that’s all you hear of him before Ned sends him off. In book 2, the people looking for the Brotherhood name drop him a bunch, but again, that’s it. Otherwise, you’re in the same place as book readers.

  139. Sullied Hipster
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    I can’t believe they’ve completely ruined this series by leaving out Moon Boy. You NON-readers have probably never heard of him.

  140. Craster's Bastard
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    Firstly, more screen time for Sansa please! By the old gods and the new I love that girl…soooo pretty.

    Secondly, I feel bad for Gilly’s son. He will never get to know his dad cuz those mean crows murdered him :(

  141. WildSeed
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 12:25 am | Permalink

    WildSeed: You cannot write being off without respecting something about their strengths
    or weaknesses. Theon’s story is not over until it’s over……….

    Word stumbling ….. meant to express ” write off “. Omit ” being “.

  142. Cohen
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 4:04 am | Permalink

    Trent:
    I’m not sure why Sam thought he needed to flee with Gilly and the boy.Who is he really helping there, anybody?Best to keep his head low during the melee and then take inventory of the situation.I just didn’t see it quite so dire that he had to flee, especially once Craster was out of the picture.

    There was an open fight of Night’s watch “rebels” against the “pro Mormont” fraction. And Sam always made a point of being a coward. I totally understand that he flees … especially as the guy leading the rebels (the one with the beard) pretty much stated in an earlier episode that he would just leave Sam to die as he only slowed down the others …

  143. Dana
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    Craster’s Bastard,

    Seriously? Is that a joke?? HAHA
    Tilly’s SON’s father was going to have him killed probably the next day anyway.

    PEACE OUT CRASTER

  144. Trent
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Cohen: There was an open fight of Night’s watch “rebels” against the “pro Mormont” fraction. And Sam always made a point of being a coward. I totally understand that he flees … especially as the guy leading the rebels (the one with the beard) pretty much stated in an earlier episode that he would just leave Sam to die as he only slowed down the others …

    Definitely better to keep away from Rast and keep his head down during the fight but…I got the impression that there were fewer “rebels” than “pro Mormont” guys. I really only base this on the fact that I don’t remember that much hostility / separatist thinking among the Crows. Wouldn’t Sam be better off sticking around to see if the “rebellion” was quelled, and possibly inherit Craster’s Keep and its food and shelter along with his friends/allies? That sounds better to me than escaping with Gilly, an infant, and limited food into a world of wildlings and an advancing army of White Walkers and Wights.

  145. Trent
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Question for the book-readers– was there any more in the book about why Kraznys would accept a deal like the one Danaerys offered? Maybe he loved a baby red dragon plushie as a kid?

  146. The MediocreJohn
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    Re: Kraznys and the value of Dragons:
    In season one, Viserys tries to steal Dany’s petrified dragon eggs be quad he can buy an army with them, so they hold a tremendous value even as ornamental rarities. A live specimen of an extinct species that can, say, melt a castle (as Tywin and others have described) would have immeasurable value. Ser Barristan says as much when Dany offers one up for trade (“worth more than an army”).
    I’m sure Kraznys knows that he can name his price to any ruler in Essos or Westeros for such a WMD. Not to mention that he sees Dany as an ignorant Westerosi sop. No doubt be thought she was the one getting taken…

  147. The MediocreJohn
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

    Re: Kraznys and the value of Dragons:
    In season one, Viserys tries to steal Dany’s petrified dragon eggs because he can buy an army with them, so they hold a tremendous value even as ornamental rarities.
    So a live specimen (of an extinct species) that can, say, melt a castle (as Tywin and others have described) would have immeasurable value. Ser Barristan says as much when Dany offers one up for trade (“worth more than an army”, or something like that).

    I’m sure Kraznys knows that he can name his price to any ruler in Essos or Westeros for such a WMD. Not to mention that he sees Dany as an ignorant Westerosi sop. No doubt be thought she was the one getting taken…

  148. The MediocreJohn
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

    The MediocreJohn,

    I mistakenly hit ‘request deletion’ on mobile version of site; meant to edit a typo instead. I’ve re-posted comment, so delete away!
    Sorry for the noob blunder.

  149. Grijnwaald
    Posted April 25, 2013 at 2:48 am | Permalink

    Fackin ell! Just watched it last night

    Going by what Varys said to Old Nanna Lemoncakes, I’ve got this image of Littlefinger sitting in Winterfell as Warden of the North……..I can’t bare thinking about it!

    RIP Lord Commander Mormont :’( (this make me sad) I hope Rast follows Sam and Gilly only to be pwned by Sam.

    I hope the hound beats Beric in the fight, though saying that, I heard on one of the trailers Arya screaming “Let him burn!” which has me unsure…..

    I knew Danny could speak Valyrian! And I thought, “yeah she’s not giving up one of her children that easily”

    I’m worried for Margaery and Sansa, I can see that Cersei could be up to something.

    Also, I oddly found myself feeling sorry for Theon, and that’s very rare……that other dude Is fucking scary, he freed him, just so he could hunt him down again! So after the Ironborn left Winterfell…wait, wasn’t it the Starks who sieged Winterfell and took Theon prisoner? I’m confoozled.

  150. csasil
    Posted April 25, 2013 at 5:13 am | Permalink

    Dan Spicer:
    My wife, the non-book reader had as many questions/comments as usual.She seems to really enjoy Lady Olenna.Every time she speaks my wife giggles…She utterd the word, “Bastard.” half a heat beat before that Night’s watch guy did, and yelled, “No!, Not Him, I liked him!” When Mormont got killed.On Tywin, “Who is getting these letters he’s writing?They keep showing him writing letters, who is he writing to?Tell me.You know, don’t you?Just tell me who he is writing letters to?”On Joff, “She kills him with his crossbow, right?”That’s why they showed her with it, right?Just tell me if she shoots him.I hate him. I hope he dies.He dies, right?”On Jaime and Briennee, “As soon as he does one nice thing that shit happens.What the f–k?I guess he deserved it.Do they end up doing it?They do, don’t they?”On Theon, “I don’t get it…Oh!!!He told him the Stark boys aren’t dead, is that it?”On Dany, “This guy (Kraznys) is such an asshole.She understood all that other stuff he was saying, that’s funny!I knew it, I knew it, I knew.I knew she was going to tell her dragon to kill that guy.”Watches previews, then “how many episodes are left?6?They need to have more, ten isn’t enough when you have to wait a year.”

    I love reading what your wife says … keep posting!! They are a very entertaining read for a sullied who is happily keeping her mouth shut!

  151. csasil
    Posted April 25, 2013 at 5:18 am | Permalink

    Faceless Man:
    I Know of Fear,

    As a book-reader you cant imagine the joy we get from seeing you speculate and guess. It reminds us of being in the same position long ago, desperately trying to makes sense of a complex, ever-changing puzzle. Some of us seem to overstep our bonds and drop hints which I agree is stupid.

    Our apologies.

    I agree! … and it only serves to spoil the fun for the rest of us bookreaders … who love reading what the unsullied ponder when they don’t hold back for fear of spoilers.

  152. csasil
    Posted April 25, 2013 at 5:28 am | Permalink

    Lady Mychelle:
    Beric was in season 1 when Ned ordered him to go find and kill the Mountani.
    Margaery offered her other brother (the crippled one) to Sansa, not Loras.
    Loras is Kingsguard. they cannot marry

    You know what would be awesome on this site … the ability to spoiler block other peoples comments.

    Lady Mychelle you obviously seem to be a book reader because what you are talking about with Loras never actually happened in the show and you don’t even have the decency to black it out. Like seriously, why?

  153. Trent
    Posted April 25, 2013 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    Grijnwaald:
    Also, I oddly found myself feeling sorry for Theon, and that’s very rare……that other dude Is fucking scary, he freed him, just so he could hunt him down again! So after the Ironborn left Winterfell…wait, wasn’t it the Starks who sieged Winterfell and took Theon prisoner? I’m confoozled.

    The Stark bannerman’s contingent (including an over-achieving hornblower) surrounded Theon at Winterfell, but I believe they reported via raven that by the time they reached the Keep, the place had been sacked and Theon wasn’t there. I never quite understood that– it seemed like they were right there– how did Theon’s captors elude them?
    As the season has progressed, it’s seeming more and more to me that Roose Bolton’s bastard (whom I believe was charged with retrieving Theon– I recall Bolton asking Robb to give his bastard the assignment) captured Theon himself (I guess after dialog with the surrendering Ironborn crew), sacked the city, and captured Theon. Then I guess he initiated this charade of rescue/re-capture. Lord knows why.

  154. Trent
    Posted April 25, 2013 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    @TheMediocreJohn, Re: Kraznys and the value of Dragons…

    Okay, I guess I’ll buy that…thanks. They at least established that the dragon’s eggs are supremely valuable, plus Barristan’s comment…but an egg is a lot different from a live dragon. Surely he must’ve associated a bit of risk with the investment, seeing as how they can kill you and don’t come with a manual. But I guess he’s just a risk-taker as a businessman, not all that uncommon, and knows that if it pans out he becomes supremely rich.

  155. Grijnwaald
    Posted April 25, 2013 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Trent: The Stark bannerman’s contingent (including an over-achieving hornblower)surrounded Theon at Winterfell, but I believe they reported via raven that by the time they reached the Keep, the place had been sacked and Theon wasn’t there.I never quite understood that– it seemed like they were right there– how did Theon’s captors elude them?
    As the season has progressed, it’s seeming more and more to me that Roose Bolton’s bastard (whom I believe was charged with retrieving Theon– I recall Bolton asking Robb to give his bastard the assignment) captured Theon himself (I guess after dialog with the surrendering Ironborn crew), sacked the city, and captured Theon.Then I guess he initiated this charade of rescue/re-capture.Lord knows why.

    Ah yes, I remember now! So it was Bolton’s bastard who set him free then re-captured him then? I don’t know why either but going by the look on his face when the heavies put him back on the X, he seemed to take pleasure in Theon’s torture.

  156. telobsidion
    Posted April 26, 2013 at 1:12 am | Permalink

    Trent,

    It wasn’t that different in the book. Some people still scratch their heads. But here is a little more back story that the show may or may not delve into. Astapor was part of an older Empire named Ghis, but was eventually conquered by Valyria when it was first expanding. The Valyrians were the only people who had managed to tame dragons, and it fueled their conquest. I think there was some envy over having that type of power again. Maybe reforge the empire of Ghis while Valyria had long since passed away. Also, for all the talk, I’m not sure why Kraznys or the other masters would think Dany would just turn and sack the city. She is doing business there, and while he thought her naive, I’m not sure he understood her loathing of what was going on there, and he saw her as a bleeding heart full of compassion, a young one at that (she is fourteen or fifteen at this point in the books), I don’t think they though her capable of such cruelty.

  157. Grijnwaald
    Posted April 26, 2013 at 2:48 am | Permalink

    telobsidion:
    Trent,

    It wasn’t that different in the book. Some people still scratch their heads. But here is a little more back story that the show may or may not delve into. Astapor was part of an older Empire named Ghis, but was eventually conquered by Valyria when it was first expanding. The Valyrians were the only people who had managed to tame dragons, and it fueled their conquest. I think there was some envy over having that type of power again. Maybe reforge the empire of Ghis while Valyria had long since passed away. Also, for all the talk, I’m not sure why Kraznys or the other masters would think Dany would just turn and sack the city. She is doing business there, and while he thought her naive, I’m not sure he understood her loathing of what was going on there, and he saw her as a bleeding heart full of compassion, a young one at that (she is fourteen or fifteen at this point in the books), I don’t think they though her capable of such cruelty.

    There shouldn’t be any need ro use spoiler tags in this thread as there shouldn’t be any spoilers here in the first place.

    Book readers have their own thread where you can talk about what happens without tags.

  158. telobsidion
    Posted April 26, 2013 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Grijnwaald,

    Trent directly asked if there was any additional background information in the books that might explain Kraznys’ behavior.

    Trent:
    Question for the book-readers– was there any more in the book about why Kraznys would accept a deal like the one Danaerys offered?Maybe he loved a baby red dragon plushie as a kid?

    I wouldn’t expect Trent to go to the book readers’ thread or to risk spoiling himself on a wiki. Does it still offend?

  159. Grijnwaald
    Posted April 26, 2013 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    telobsidion:
    Grijnwaald,

    Trent directly asked if there was any additional background information in the books that might explain Kraznys’ behavior.

    I wouldn’t expect Trent to go to the book readers’ thread or to risk spoiling himself on a wiki. Does it still offend?

    You’re missing the point, there should not be any spoilers here, if Trent wants to find out something, I’m sure he can find another way.

  160. Trent
    Posted April 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Grijnwaald: There shouldn’t be any need ro use spoiler tags in this thread as there shouldn’t be any spoilers here in the first place.

    Book readers have their own thread where you can talk about what happens without tags.

    Yeah, I did outright ask for more info from a book-reader. I thought telobsidion did the responsible thing in adding spoiler tags, because some wouldn’t want ANY info from the books, even if some nimrod like me asks for it. :-) That’s what the tags are for, IMO.

    And I’m glad I did– telobsidion’s response provided some book context that made the slaver’s actions make more sense to me, and contained no spoilers to my knowledge.

  161. Trent
    Posted April 26, 2013 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    Grijnwaald: You’re missing the point, there should not be any spoilers here, if Trent wants to find out something, I’m sure he can find another way.

    Well, the good news is that there *weren’t* any spoilers…but he spoiler-protected his response in case someone didn’t want to hear any additional info/context from the books.

  162. Grijnwaald
    Posted April 27, 2013 at 3:13 am | Permalink

    Okay great, I’m glad you’re more enlightened now! :)

  163. Dany's One-Eyed Dragon
    Posted April 28, 2013 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    Hexonx,

    Agree with post that the information the “you bastard” archer was after was something other than that Bran and Rikon are still alive. It sure seems he was playing an odd version of good cop/bad cop, and the archer perked up when Theon said it, but Robb Stark already had the information that Winterfell had been sacked and “Bran and Rikon have not been found.” I admit I did not understand exactly how or why Robb Stark ever got that information when everyone but a handful of people thought and would report that boys were burned to a crisp. But somehow that info was known and disseminated already by someone who knew BOTH the castle had been sacked and the boys were missing. It is likely that I am missing something that would clear up the ambiguity, but anyone who would have access to Theon would seemingly know that already. Could it have been the farmer whose orphan children were burned that sent word to Robb Stark? Not sure how he could have sent a raven or rider during war or how he would have known Winterfell was sacked since it was a two day hike from his farm I think, but it could have been him I suppose. So I thought it was whoever it was that captured Theon and the ironborn that sent word to King of the North’s army. Small gripe in the grand scheme of things, but I don’t like how the whole Theon and winterfell storyline is being written and its choppyness (perhaps only for me and some other non-book readers), as I am not sure what I am supposed to know and not supposed to know at this point when compared to the other storylines that provide better cues without spoiling anything as to what the viewer should know (or at least thinks he/she or should know) and what the viewer clearly should not know based on the story told to date.

    Regarding the fictitious letter, did enjoy it… But Davos does know Varys well (he told his son something like “Lord Varys knows what you had for breakfast” on the ship heading to Blackwater bay so any jailhouse writer to him would have probably known that Davos the wise smuggler knew Varys. Nevertheless, I am an Oz of Thrones disciple here on out!

  164. Dany's One-Eyed Dragon
    Posted April 28, 2013 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    Hexonx,

    Agree with post that the information the “you bastard” archer was after was something other than that Bran and Rikon are still alive. It sure seems he was playing an odd version of good cop/bad cop, and the archer perked up when Theon said it, but Robb Stark already had the information that Winterfell had been sacked and “Bran and Rikon have not been found.” I admit I did not understand exactly how or why Robb Stark ever got that information when everyone but a handful of people thought and would report that boys were burned to a crisp. But somehow that info was known and disseminated already by someone who knew BOTH the castle had been sacked and the boys were missing.

    Small gripe in the grand scheme of things, but I don’t like how the whole Theon and winterfell storyline is being written and its choppyness (perhaps only for me and some other non-book readers), as I am not sure what I am supposed to know and not supposed to know at this point when compared to the other storylines that provide better cues without spoiling anything as to what the viewer should know (or at least thinks he/she or should know) and what the viewer clearly should not know based on the story told to date.

    Regarding the fictitious letter, did enjoy it… But Davos does know Varys well (he told his son something like “Lord Varys knows what you had for breakfast” on the ship heading to Blackwater bay so any jailhouse writer to him would have probably known that Davos the wise smuggler knew Varys. Nevertheless, I am an Oz of Thrones disciple here on out!

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