GoT continues to rise in the ratings
By Hear Me Roar on in News.

Tuesday is the ratings day. And it is all a (golden) rose garden. Once more, TV by the Numbers strikes first:

Game of Thrones was Sunday’s top cable original with a  2.6 up from last week’s 2.4 adults 18-49 rating.

This best ever demo share (beating even the NBA playoffs of the night) is joined by the record number we regulary track – the number of viewers for the initial airing. This week the counter stopped at 4.87! The repeat added another 1.03 million for a nice, round first-night total of 5.90.

Hear Me Roar:  I am actually surprised at the constant and steady rise week by week (given the rather flat S2). Positively, naturally, no complaints here :) Enjoy the good news.


152 Comments

  1. Sayslah
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    First

    That episode was worthy of a season finale let alone the 4th episode of the season !!

  2. Matt S
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    Great news, very happy :)

  3. Jen
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    After Dracarys, next week will probably have a spike in ratings, I bet.

  4. Ryan Cordes
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    So safe to say we actually hit 5 million next week?

  5. GeekFurious
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    I will continue to point out, for the next 56 episodes of the series, that Nielsen overnight ratings for HBO are a ridiculous thing to focus on.

  6. Sayslah
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    GeekFurious,

    We will continue to not care because we aren’t ‘FOCUSED’ on them. Its just something else to geek out on, no pun intended. :)

  7. Clob
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    Too bad for the millions that haven’t seen it yet.

  8. Sky Aero
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    It’s going faster than I anticipated. But it’s very good News!

  9. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    GeekFurious,

    Feel free. We know.

    It’s just the only week-to-week metric we can follow that can be compared against other shows. It doesn’t matter ultimately, but it’s a reflection of the show’s success, if only one facet of it.

  10. Freoduwebbe
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    Everyone needs a calling….
    I just like having new posts to read

    GeekFurious:
    I will continue to point out, for the next 56 episodes of the series, that Nielsen overnight ratings for HBO are a ridiculous thing to focus on.

  11. SerKenjiGerrard
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    I feel like a proud parent… 5 million before long, I’m sure…

  12. Michael
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    Sayslah,

    I agree, amazing episode :)

  13. TeamWolf
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    Yay!

  14. Daniel
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    I just want to know what the hell the producers are going to do with the Meereen crap. Everyone is excited about what Dany is going to do with the army and the dragons but all she’s going to do is stay at a crappy city having sex with idiots. The producers have to do things very carefully after the Red Wedding if they don’t want to lose viewers.

  15. Belwas's Stool
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    5 million first viewing and 6 million combined is very close.

  16. sunspear
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    GeekFurious,

    True, but on the other hand, bragging rights.

    For comparisons sake, True blood averaged 4.67 viewers per initial episode last year, so we are well on our way to dethroning them. More math on the way as I calculate it.

  17. Winter Is Coming
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    GeekFurious:
    I will continue to point out, for the next 56 episodes of the series, that Nielsen overnight ratings for HBO are a ridiculous thing to focus on.

    I think everyone realizes that Nielsen ratings mean very little to HBO. It has been mentioned in the comments here many times. It’s just a way for us, the fans, to gauge the growing popularity of the show. People like to see that number go up, so what’s the harm in reporting it?

  18. Omar Brown
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    Knowing what is coming, this should be quite a good season for HBO. A good sign that the show is doing well with viewers and with the story they are telling.

  19. Sean
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    I know at work every week we ether pick up a new watcher, or somebody finally catches up with the current episodes. IT has gotten to the point that we have decided that if you miss the episode on Sunday that is reason enough to call out on Monday. I see GOT taking the number one spot for HBO shows by the end of this season.

  20. Boris
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    No week overalls yet? Havent seen any data on this since the start of the season.

  21. JonathanL
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Daniel, I don’t think it will be too bad. I think DB and Dan know what works and what doesn’t work about the next two books, and as surely as they’re handling the story at this point, they should be read to deal with the aftermath of ASOS. My only concern is that it won’t take that long; whereas ASOS is an easy two seasons, I wonder if AFFC and ADWD are more than even one.

  22. Knurk
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    It’s nice to see it’s on par with season 3 of True Blood and beating True Blood’s numbers of season 5.

  23. Varamyr Fourskins
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    I don’t care if D&D go on to churn out crap for the rest of their lives, they’re two of my favorite people on the planet… And I’ve never even met them. They could be axe murderers for all I know (which isn’t to say that they are. But if they were, I’d probably give them a pass. They’ve earned it).

  24. sunspear
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Okay, we are currently averaging 4.56 million total viewers. The rest of this season has to average 4.75 million viewers to match last season of True blood. Let’s make it happen!

  25. OtherAndrew
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    GOT S03E04 is at 4.87 million — in contrast True Blood S03E04 was 4.68 million and Boardwalk Empire at 2.11. Clear now that GOT is HBO’s best-rated show.

  26. superkick
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    ADWD and AFFC will prob be combined into 2 sesasons would be my guess. With some of the slower plot lines sped up.

    Plus D&D prob have a bunch of material from george we havent been given yet.

  27. Coltaine777
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Great news..

  28. Mike Chair
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Yeah, yeah, Nielsen is next to irrelevant and the Emmys are a mummers farce.
    Whatever.

    GAME OF THRONES IS ON FIRE!!!!

    Sound the bells! The University of Wisconsin-Madison has. You see, they have a bell tower there. And that bell tower has a (ready?) carillonneur. And that carillonneur can play — the GoT opening theme!

    Lyle Anderson, carillonneur, and the University of Wisconsin-Madision support the bottom!

  29. Deekan
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Daniel,

    The books aren’t THAT bad. The only real reason they are disliked by many is because of the lack of characters and the huge gap inbetween seeing said characters. And I personally LOVED the Meereen stuff. I love all the politics of running a city, especially when they’re inexperienced. The only thing I agree with is using those random characters and I do find the Dorne stuff SUPER BORING before they Prince Martell finally tells his secret. But they are still better than all the generic S#%* that has come out in the last decade.

  30. TJeff
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    A new record, although a little below 4.9mil as I expected. Agreed AFFC&ADWD will be hard to transform on TV, there are too many storylines and characters, people will hard to follow, yet not enough big events could be the central of the season, you know like Ned’s excution, Blackwater and you know what I mean.

  31. Yago
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    JonathanL,

    This. I think they can’t make FFC + DWD more than 1 season. Bran would spend even more time doing nothing, same for Sansa and Arya (well, mostly). I really pity D&D, because I really have no idea how they’re going to pull it off. Edmure and the Blackfish were introduced now, but they have nothing to do until they meet Jaime again in season 5 (? I think), and that’s only a few scenes. Viewers are starting to get annoyed at Theon already, how will they react when he’s kept in a dungeon for a few more seasons? And there’s a lot of other stuff like that…

  32. ebevan91
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    Ryan Cordes:
    So safe to say we actually hit 5 million next week?

    Yeah. And if we’re lucky, we might even hit 6 million by the end of season 3.

  33. Alan
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    Daniel:
    I just want to know what the hell the producers are going to do with the Meereen crap. Everyone is excited about what Dany is going to do with the army and the dragons but all she’s going to do is stay at a crappy city having sex with idiots. The producers have to do things very carefully after the Red Wedding if they don’t want to lose viewers.

    It’s really not that hard.

    1. A lot of women are going to like Daario. And while many men won’t, her struggles to deal with whatever she has with Daario and her career is actually something pretty relevant to most of the career women I know. There’ll be some sex and some arguing and it’ll be much more interesting than internal mooning.

    2. If people can’t figure out how Dany struggling to occupy instead of conquer can be interesting, you’re not trying. Once again, it’s incredibly relevant to modern times as the US struggles to extricate itself from Iraq and Afghanistan. And it’s easy to spice up — instead of her getting reports of the Harpy, you show it. You have more than one assassination attempt. Every season has about an hour for every major character; they don’t need a ton of plot.

  34. Sayslah
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    They will probably use Feast and Dance material in the last two episodes of Season 4

  35. sunspear
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    Daniel,

    My theory is that they shift the focus away from Dany herself and more on the Sons of the Harpy . It can be done well.

    OtherAndrew,

    Don’t get ahead of yourself man. True Blood’s S3 premeire was a 5.09, and had a bunch of late season episodes that were even higher. Hopefully GoT catches up, but who knows?

  36. Alan
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Deekan:
    Daniel,

    The books aren’t THAT bad. The only real reason they are disliked by many is because of the lack of characters and the huge gap inbetween seeing said characters. And I personally LOVED the Meereen stuff. I love all the politics of running a city, especially when they’re inexperienced.

    They are disliked by people who want big scenes and characters to be “kick-ass.” This is admittedly a big part of the fanbase.

    I enjoy those types of things, but I think Dance is very good, and very adaptable from an interest/excitement standpoint — just with Feast, it’s too many plotlines across.

    Seriously, there’s enough: Jon’s stabbing, Theon’s escape, Dany in the fighting pit, Quentyn getting roasted, Myrcella getting hacked, “Fire and blood.” The Battle on the Ice. The Battle of Mereen (II). Bloodraven. Arya going blind. Fat Pink Mast (kidding). Kingsmoot. And my absolute favorite: Cersei’s Walk of Shame. Plus, you’ve got a lot of backstory to reveal.

  37. Alan
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Does anyone have a trending for the first day totals? Are we just shifting times or are the Sunday totals also increasing?

  38. OtherAndrew
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    sunspear,

    When I said “highest-rated” I meant compared to True Blood last year. TB’s first and last two episodes last year beat GOT’s number last night, but comparing apples to apples — mid-season eps to mid-season eps — the highest TB hit last year was 4.63 mil.

  39. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    What they should do with Dany’s story from ADWD is just give her all the Aegon stuff and forget that all the “I want to learn to rule, so I’ll fuck up an entire continent in the process” crap ever existed. That should remove the Quentyn Martel stuff too and probably all the pointless filler that happened in ADWD and will happen in TWOW.

    I suspect she will never reach Westeros in the books, and that is not how any TV viewer would want this particular plot to go.

  40. WinWolf
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Im gonna say this again…
    Who cares about American Ratings………….
    Stop posting this crap… i would rather see a number from over the whole world.
    GoT is beating evreybody and anything probably.

  41. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    Is there any way to know the week’s totals by episode? That would be interesting

  42. sunspear
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    Alan,

    Agreed on all counts. I would also add the Battle of the Shield Islands, Stannis attacking Deepwood Motte, Quentyn’s battle of Astapor and possibly the Storming of Dragonstone if they think they need more kick-ass scenes.

    One thing I notice about the complaints about ADWD and AFFC is that people didn’t like all the world-building and travelogues. I think a lot of this was blown out of proportion (seriously, he wrote about turtles for ONE PARAGRAPH people, get over it), but fortunately for them, you can show on camera in one second what Martin would take a page to descibe in the book. So that should take care of some of the filler complaints.

  43. OhDanyBoy
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    WinWolf:
    Im gonna say this again…
    Who cares about American Ratings………….
    Stop posting this crap… i would rather see a number from over the whole world.
    GoT is beating evreybody and anything probably.

    That number you want? No one has it. It doesn’t exist. So we make do just fine with Nielson ratings.

  44. NewJeffCT
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    I think they’ll have to use some material from Feast for Crows & Dance with Dragons at the end of Season 4, but I think they would still need to end Season 4 with Tyrion’s escape from jail with Jamie’s help, Jon being annointed Lord Commander and Dany deciding to learn rulership in Meereen.

    My guess on how it will all play out, with the idea from D&D that it will last 8 seasons:
    Season 4 in 2014 will be the last third of Storm of Swords and the beginning of Feast for Crows & Dance with Dragons.
    Season 5 in 2015 will finish Feast for Crows and go to the point in Dance where Feast ends. Hopefully, Winds of Winter will be out by this time?
    Season 6 in 2016 will finish Dance with Dragons and start Winds of Winter
    Season 7 in 2017 will finish Winds of Winter
    Filler Season in 2018 – the Tales of Dunk & Egg, allowing time for Dream of Spring
    Season 8 in 2019, A Dream of Spring, extended 13 episode season for the last book.

  45. Daniel
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Deekan,

    Of course the books aren’t bad! I love them, I read them once and am rereading right now. All i’m saying is that I don’t like how the Dany plot was handled in the last book. Being the geniuses that D&D are, they’ll probably make it work but for the love of God get her out of that city.

  46. sunspear
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    OtherAndrew,

    Penultimate of True Blood last year got 4.93. And even apples to apples, our premiere only got a 4.3. I’m just saying, don’t count your dragons before they hatch.

    Pau Soriano,

    Only if HBO issues a press release telling us.

  47. WinWolf
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    OhDanyBoy,

    Just a shame to see people comparing True blood too G0T just because of an american rating…

  48. Timmen
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    OtherAndrew,

    Really lol… how do you find out what the best rated show is, you can say GoT is HBO’s best rated S3E4 show yes, but didn’t true blood have 4.5+ for many many episodes and seasons and its prior S3 were higher than GOT prior S3?

    Just saying can’t say because 1 episode is highest rated it is now adorned with the HBO ratings crown

  49. Al Swearengen
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    HBO’s ratings are important but it would be nice to see how GOT is doing internationally.

  50. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Personally, I don’t even think the show will hit its ceiling this season. I also happen to think that next season is likely to be the best season yet. There’s so much to look forward to with these next six episodes that it’s easy to forget just how amazing the second half of ASoS is. Add in the chronologically relevant material from AFfC & ADwD (specifically the kingsmoot at the Iron Islands and [possibly] the introduction of the Dornish players) and the ‘new’ material, and I think it’s an easy call to say that season four has a legitimate shot at being the best season yet.

    I know it’s a bit silly (and a lot early) to be considering season four, but the recent mention of the Targaeryan children has me thinking about the Red Viper and the Mountain…

  51. Knurk
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    WinWolf:
    OhDanyBoy,

    Just a shame to see people comparing True blood too G0T just because of an american rating…

    yes such a shame to compare GoT to HBO’s most successful show in the US from the last 5 years.

  52. NewJeffCT
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    Al Swearengen: HBO’s ratings are important but it would be nice to see how GOT is doing internationally.

    well, I was recently in China and the hotel where I stayed (Sheraton in Nanjing) had a TV channel guide featuring HBO and Game of Thrones on the cover…

  53. OtherAndrew
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    sunspear, exactly. An episode 4 of GOT is already all-but-equal to the penultimate of TB. TB is in decline, its numbers last year were slightly lower, and I’d expect that to happen again, and for GOT to continue to rise, since its trend looks much more like TB S2-S3 than TB S5.I think we have enough info right now to surmise that GOT has surpassed TB as HBO’s best-rated show, but YMMV!

  54. Patchface
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    NO ONE HAS SAID HODOR. HODOR.

  55. Arthur
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    Here it is, found it on youtube…

    Possibly one of the best climatic scenes in the whole series so far…

    Enjoy!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hIqspEBi1g

  56. juego de tronos
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Very good news!

  57. tysnow
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    Great news, an appreciative ratings for the quality of cast and crew, but the next episode 5 is extremely important, more so than ever, for newbies. With the hype, attention and critical accolades from this past weeks show, I can foresee perhaps a big 10% or larger increase in viewership. A slow talkie episode might cause some of the uninitiated to think, what’s all the fuss about, therefore 5 needs to be a kill ass episode.

  58. OtherAndrew
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    Timmen,

    What we know is:

    -The GOT S3 premiere was well lower than the True Blood S3 premiere. Since then, all three GOT eps have topped the comparative TB S3 eps.

    -The numbers for GOT eps 3 and 4 this year beat every episode of True Blood last year except the premiere, penultimate episode, and finale.

    Do with that info what you will, but I feel it’s quite suggestive.

  59. Bushy Smalls
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Do we have a chart for the shows over their first few seasons, like last year? I want to see how each episode is comparing to the other shows (and itself) over time.

  60. Josh
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Given the extremely positive buzz of this week’s episode, I just don’t see us not hitting 5 million by next week…How can you not see those Dany gifs and not want to watch this show!? And now I have no idea what the finale’s numbers could look like because I just didn’t see these very positive numbers coming.

  61. mead
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    Filler Season in 2018 – the Tales of Dunk & Egg, allowing time for Dream of Spring

    there will be no haitus

  62. Steel_Wind
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming: I think everyone realizes that Nielsen ratings mean very little to HBO. It has been mentioned in the comments here many times. It’s just a way for us, the fans, to gauge the growing popularity of the show. People like to see that number go up, so what’s the harm in reporting it?

    There’s no harm at all. Moreover, it also speaks to the relative popularity of GoT compared to True Blood, with ratings serving as a benchmark.

    For reasons we have already discussed here over the years, namely,

    (1) higher international revenue for GoT abroad (as compared to True Blood);
    (2) higher licensing and merchandising revenue for GoT (as compared to True Blood);
    (3) higher sales of DVD/Blu-Ray for GoT (as compared to True Blood); and
    (4) higher costs of production for GoT (as compared to True Blood),

    we do not know and cannot say that GoT is more profitable to HBO than True Blood, however, the relative ratings comparison DOES assist us in this relative valuation, most especially when it comes to assessing the domestic profitability of GoT to HBO in the USA. It may be a leap, but when ratings go up, we can infer that GoT is, in large part, driving subscription sales to HBO.

    So yes Winter, it’s all good and quite relevant. It’s just not determinative. I’d also add that if people add a HBO subscription for GoT and then keep it in place to watch True Blood, HBO is a very “happy puppy”.

  63. mead
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    we do not know and cannot say that GoT is more profitable to HBO than True Blood,

    the head of HBO said GoT is their most profitable show

  64. Carl Borg
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    Will the red wedding happen in this season?

  65. Sarah
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    Yeah, that’s Dance with Dragons. I think his point was, how are they going to make season 4, aka the second half of storm of swords interesting. Then in season 5 and season 6 she will have lost half her army, have no boats, and hasn’t gotten anywhere! Still in Mereen!

  66. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    I’m not sure why everyone is positing Game of Thrones and True Blood as if they’re in some kind of competition. For HBO’s model, the more successful shows they have, the better all-around. High-rated series are what allow HBO to continue to take chances on original programming, and also what help keep low-rated (but amazing) series like Treme (which is getting a FOURTH and final – though shortened – season), Enlightened (which would have been unlikely to get a green light anywhere else, let alone a second season, which just so happens to be one of the best seasons of television in recent memory), and Luck (which really turned into something special by the end, and could have went on to become an all-time television great, had it not been for those unfortunate accidents; nonetheless, the show was given a second season despite bad initial airing ratings [though it did well overall]).

    Hopefully Boardwalk Empire sees a rise in ratings this season, as it’s easily one of the best shows on television, and it’s the only other show with a cast that can challenge Game of Thrones in sheer scope and quality. But if it doesn’t, it will likely get a renewal for a fifth season anyway, because of the success of Game of Thrones and (likely) True Blood (among other more mildly popular shows like Veep, Eastbound & Down, and Girls [which had bad initial airing ratings, but is watched primarily through HBO Go, so that's a definite win when it comes to spreading that platform]).

    True Blood hasn’t been great these past two seasons, but it’s not nearly as bad as some people act like it is. Sure, it’s cheesy, but it’s pulp fiction. It embraces that inherit corniness, for the most part, and at least it develops its characters well enough that we can either like them or dislike them based on more than just surface level characterization (like every character in The Walking Dead). So it’s a cheesy, gory, sexy soap opera. That’s not going to appeal to everyone, sure, but I think with a reduced episode count (10), a new show runner, and an end game in mind (this season and one more), we can expect the show to be closer in quality to the first three rather than the latest two.

    At least, that’s what I’m hoping. Two big hits for HBO is better for all of their original programming than one big hit, so I’d like to see both of them do as well as they can (and again, hoping for Boardwalk to see an increase, as well). Besides, if it weren’t for True Blood becoming a hit, HBO may have never taken a chance on a fantasy series like Game of Thrones. And hopefully some time in the near future, a science fiction fan is saying the same thing about their show on HBO (Commonwealth Saga, please).

  67. JamesL
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Khal-A-Bunga,

    I don’t see how some people think S4 will be the best season. There is some big events at the end of ASOS but most of the storylines will be pretty much over by the time S3 is done. Most of the characters don’t have much of a story arc left in ASOS to make for an amazing S4.

  68. JamesL
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    Steel_Wind,
    “we do not know and cannot say that GoT is more profitable to HBO than True Blood”

    Actually we can. I’m pretty sure it has been confirmed that GOT is HBOs most profitable show.

  69. Alan
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    Sarah:
    Alan,

    Yeah, that’s Dance with Dragons. I think his point was, how are they going to make season 4, aka the second half of storm of swords interesting. Then in season 5 and season 6 she will have lost half her army, have no boats, and hasn’t gotten anywhere! Still in Mereen!

    I do get it — but it’s just not that hard to make it interesting. Lots happens, and a lot happens off screen that can be added. The perception that Dany hasn’t gotten anywhere has a lot more to do with physical movement and expectations. HBO doesn’t look at this series as plot-driven — and complaints about Mereen only exist in terms of plot-driven. Character-wise, it’s very rich ground for Dany.

    Her story will change tone, and some people will still be pissed. It won’t be “Dany is a bad-ass” anymore. It’s Dany is realizing ruling is a lot harder than conquering and herself trying to decide between pragmatic choices and principled ones.

  70. Steel_Wind
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Sarah:
    Alan,

    Yeah, that’s Dance with Dragons. I think his point was, how are they going to make season 4, aka the second half of storm of swords interesting. Then in season 5 and season 6 she will have lost half her army, have no boats, and hasn’t gotten anywhere! Still in Mereen!

    I expect there will be a lot of book fundamentalists who will be unhappy, but I (for one) am fully prepared for a SIGNIFICANT divergence of the TV series from the Book series after Season 4. GRRM’s plot becomes increasingly unfilmable and, put bluntly, boring and uneven as the series progresses. (A Storm of Swords is my favourite novel of all time, but that does not mean that GRRM’s writing was up to the task after it).

    In short, just because something happened or did not happen in the books, I would place increasingly less faith in the book series serving as a precedent after Season 4. Put bluntly, the quality of the book series drops off markedly in the fourth book and fifth books, and GRRM needed an editor with some greater leverage than Ann Groehl had. Well, D&D aren’t Ann Groehl and I predict they are not going to cleave anywhere NEAR as closely to the books after Season 4 as they have so far.

  71. Restore The Day
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    Yago,

    What about the guidelines for spoilers do you find so difficult to follow ???

  72. Steel_Wind
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    JamesL:
    Steel_Wind,
    “we do not know and cannot say that GoT is more profitable to HBO than True Blood”

    Actually we can. I’m pretty sure it has been confirmed that GOT is HBOs most profitable show.

    We don’t what metric that statement was based on. My guess, particularly in the context in which it was mentioned, is that GoT was the most profitable in terms of sales of DVD/Blu-Rays for HBO.

    In terms of channel subscription sales (and what drives new sales and what drives customer retention), the answer is FAR less clear. I’m not even sure that HBO has an accurate handle on that answer. Ultimately, they draw inferences just as we do. I’m sure they have more data from which to draw those inferences, but when figuring out what drives their customers for a bulk channel like HBO offers, I am sure they are often flying in the dark using instruments, too.

  73. Alan
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    JamesL:
    Khal-A-Bunga,

    I don’t see how some people think S4 will be the best season. There is some big events at the end of ASOS but most of the storylines will be pretty much over by the time S3 is done. Most of the characters don’t have much of a story arc left in ASOS to make for an amazing S4.

    I’m not sure how you can make that estimation when you have very little idea how most of the arcs finish in season 3.

  74. OtherAndrew
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Khal-A-Bunga, I think the main reason it’s the go-to comparison is that for the first two years, we kept hearing. “Well, GOT is getting okay/good ratings, but it’s nothing like True Blood’s numbers!” So it’s exciting to see it finally get those numbers.

    But I would push back on your claim that the shows aren’t in direct competition in any way. Sure, if they both do great, and HBO makes more $, it’s great for HBO. But the relative status of the two certainly has some bearing on how HBO allocates its budget resources. For example, if Boardwalk Empire was getting twice the ratings of GOT rather than being somewhat below it, would we have gotten that Blackwater budget increase? Hard to say.

  75. Yago
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Restore The Day,

    I’m very sorry. I realised it later, but couldn’t edit it anymore. It’s not that I do’nt care, I just forgot to put the spoiler tags… My apologies.

  76. darrylzero
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    And Frey pie! Which is maybe my favorite thing in the whole series.

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    This attitude continues to baffle me. Danny’s decision to stay in Mereen is the most adult decision she’s made! It doesn’t work out so well, but isn’t that the kind of thing that makes ASOIAF better than its competitors? Ruling *is* hard, and if Dany were immediately good at it — or if she didn’t as queen treat herself to the occasional piece of ass — she would been even less relatable than she already is.

    For my part, I hope she never leaves Essos. Why should she care about Westeros? Really. Ending slavery in Essos is a far nobler mission than conquering her ancestors’ homeland — which she has no real connection to — and I have to think she’ll realize that.

    I’m hoping fire and ice are two equally dangerous forces, though elemental rather than malicious, and that Dany’s role in the endgame is to discover the other threat and help reconcile them somehow (but in a more interesting way than I’ve been able to imagine, which we can be thankful will be the case). But even if the Others are pure evil and her dragons are mostly needed to melt them, I hope that happens in a way that acknowledges that Essos is her home, not Westeros.

    Anyway, even if you disagree with all of that vehemently, there’s no real need for concern. It will all play out much more gracefully on screen. It’s mostly Danny’s thoughts that are boring, not her actions, and I think the real problem is that her chapters — like Jon’s, but also arguably Brienne’s and Sam’s and Arianne’s (when Doran isn’t taking) — have none of the voice that the more colorful characters display. That was really driven home for me in Jaime’s ADWD chapter, where every passage just oozes condescension and swagger, but it’s true for a number characters, including some more surprising ones like Sansa. Also, I love GRRM to death, but who wants to read a 60+ year old man imagine the horny thoughts of an impossibly hot 16/17 year old girl? Watching them onscreen, on the other hand…

    Anyway, long story short, I very much enjoy the things some people seem to loathe about AFFC & ADWD (except for the Damphair and the later parts of Tyrion’s arc), but I understand why aspects of those books were a struggle for a number of readers. Most of that won’t be an issue onscreen, though, except that following so many story arcs and finding appropriate season breaks will be a real trick. I think it can be done though.

  77. Alan
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Season 4:

    Jon’s is awesome. Battle at the Wall. Arrest. Assassination mission. Battle. Elected Lord Commander.

    Dany will at least have Mereen to take, possibly dealing with sending Jorah away and deciding to rule. It seems like we are ending at Yunkai.

    Bran is sparse, but he’s sparse this season. They got a decent amount of three-eyed crow and backstory. I know lot of people think they are meeting Coldhands but that’s far from determined. It’s looking more and more like Sam’s story may end with Coldhands or Sam the Slayer.

    Arya gets some fun jaunts with the Hound, a reworked version of the inn, leaving him for dead and getting on the boat/arriving in Braavos. It’s not full, but it’s not empty.

    KL is beyond awesome and 10x better than this year. Purple Wedding, Viper, Shae & Tywin, Jaime returning, etc.

    Sansa gets PW and Lysa getting shoved out the door — again, actually a couple of really strong climaxes.

    Theon will likely be boring. I wonder if they will introduce the rest of Dorne or the Iron Islands (bring Asha back).

    Stannis will be better. They had to make up a Melisandre plot here and his big climax is talking to Davos this season.

    So yeah, Jon/Sam, All of King’s Landing (Cersei, Joff, Marg, Sansa, Littlefinger, Tyrion, Tywin, Shae, etc.) and Stannis are all HUGELY better next season in terms of exciting plot points.

    Dany and Arya might be a little down, but it depends on execution. I could see them stumbling upon the Ghost of High Heart to spice things up.

    Theon’s down, and Bran is just Bran — always a problem.

  78. Govnor
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    A nice little bump like most expected, nothing spectacular though.

    As for the future, Season 4 could be the best yet given the source material. The last 3rd of SoS is genius. After that, I think the producers are going to get super busy with the editing of the books and what they will use.

  79. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    OtherAndrew,

    Yes, because these shows are not budgeted in relation to one another. Boardwalk Empire’s first season cost as much as Game of Thrones first season, and I imagine they’re still in roughly that ball park, despite the fact that Boardwalk gets lower ratings than GoT or True Blood. Blackwater was given a budget increase, because it was what’s best for the show.

  80. Lars
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    I agree

    Govnor:
    A nice little bump like most expected, nothing spectacular though.

    As for the future, Season 4 could be the best yet given the source material. The last 3rd of SoS is genius. After that, I think the producers are going to get super busy with the editing of the books and what they will use.

    Agreed. Even if 2/3rds of ASOS ends up in season 3, season 4 can still be just as spectacular, if not better. The last 1/3rd of ASOS is just payoff after payoff, revelation after revelation.

  81. NewJeffCT
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Sarah: Alan, Yeah, that’s Dance with Dragons. I think his point was, how are they going to make season 4, aka the second half of storm of swords interesting. Then in season 5 and season 6 she will have lost half her army, have no boats, and hasn’t gotten anywhere! Still in Mereen!

    Umm, she lost a small part of her army in Meereen from the Sons of the Harpy – not half. Most of the killings were individual murders and Dany was not there for 4,400 days (though, it may seem like that…) Also, only a small group were lost in the actual conquest of Meereen as well. She did lose the Second Sons temporarily, but they are only about 500.

  82. Paul
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    Yago:
    JonathanL,

    This. I think they can’t make FFC + DWD more than 1 season. Bran would spend even more time doing nothing, same for Sansa and Arya (well, mostly). I really pity D&D, because I really have no idea how they’re going to pull it off. Edmure and the Blackfish were introduced now, but they have nothing to do until they meet Jaime again in season 5 (? I think), and that’s only a few scenes. Viewers are starting to get annoyed at Theon already, how will they react when he’s kept in a dungeon for a few more seasons? And there’s a lot of other stuff like that…

  83. Delta1212
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Khal-A-Bunga,

    I’d prefer Night’s Dawn as a TV series, personally, but I certainly wouldn’t complain about the Commonwealth Saga getting made.

    Alan:
    Does anyone have a trending for the first day totals? Are we just shifting times or are the Sunday totals also increasing?

    Well, from last week it went from a 5.76 total to a 5.9 for this week’s, so I’d say that’s a positive trend.

  84. Hawk
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    There is no pointless filler in ASOIAF…every chapter advances the story…some readers should spend less time agonizing about why so-and-so hasn’t left such-and-such place and pay attention to how the story is being developed in those chapters in which they think nothing is happening…

    or you can just beg GRRM to age up the dragons magically so they are big enough to ride before it’s time for them to be big enough to ride (something he rightly so has avoided doing)…what good is an invasion of Westeros w/o dragons big enough to be ridden?

    I understand a lot of this is opinion and others feel differently, but I also imagine the same folks chomping at the bit for Dany to leave Meereen were the same folks chomping at the bit for Drogo to be leading his Khalasar across the Narrow Sea at the end of AGOT, before THAT idea was quashed by his sudden death…Dany will leave Meereen when it is time for her to leave Meereen…

    There is plenty of great story to make AFFC/ADWD three seasons, and that’s the best thing the producers can do to allow GRRM time to finish the novels before the TV show catches him up…

  85. Maxwell James
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    I wonder if they drop Theon for a season next year. Very hard to see where they go with his plot before Ramsay lets him outside again. To get to his escape, one of the (best) climaxes of ADWD, they have to be well into season 5.

    OTOH, I would not be surprised at all if Dany’s plot this season is essentially where she is by the end of ASOS. The distinction between Yunkai and Meereen is meaningless for non-readers, and for many readers as well. They could easily stop with her settling down there to rule.

  86. OtherAndrew
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    Khal-A-Bunga, the decision is much more complicated than “what’s best for the show.” First of all, I think any showrunner would say that the amount of money that’s “best for the show” is always “as much as possible!” You can always do more with more money. Blackwater is a case in point. At one point they were hoping to build several ships and the giant chain. Those had to go, not enough money. Instead we got one ship and no chain. Still great! But, you know…

    Second, commitments of tens of millions of dollars are always made when considering the overall resource picture of the TV division and of HBO as a whole. GOT’s budget went from $60 million in Season 1 to $70 million in Season 2, and I guarantee you that request had to go up to the very top and be weighed against proposals from other shows for similar budget increases. For all we know, GOT’s budget increase could be the reason Treme’s final season is being cut in half — the money has to come from somewhere.

    I think the point you’re making is that things aren’t so simplistic as HBO giving budgets to its shows based solely on ratings. Which is true. But they don’t do it based solely on artistic considerations either. Sopranos got massive budgets and could do whatever it wanted. Deadwood and the Wire obviously couldn’t. Boardwalk is still quite an expensive show, as you say, but if its ratings stay the way they are, it’s an open question how long HBO will be interested in financing it.

  87. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Bushy Smalls,

    We will have that halfway, after the ratings next week, never you fear.

  88. DH87
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Steel_Wind: I’m not even sure that HBO has an accurate handle on that answer. Ultimately, they draw inferences just as we do. I’m sure they have more data from which to draw those inferences, but when figuring out what drives their customers for a bulk channel like HBO offers, I am sure they are often flying in the dark using instruments, too.

    I’m convinced HBO has proprietary modes of data mining that gives them confidence in their assessments. For example, it polls posters to its own forums with detailed questions on its series (what do you like about X? Have you watched X from the beginning? What other shows do you watch? How much would you pay to continue to subscribe to HBO? What would you like to see in the series?) and has comparable data on its content over twenty years. It admits to its mistakes (killing Rome without taking DVD income into account, etc.) and keeps shows that aren’t pulling their weight only until they have something better in the pipeline. I’m now convinced HBO will keep GOT for as long as D&D want to run it. It has become a cultural phenomenon and a critics’ favorite. TB is on its last legs but is cheap to produce so will be kept until HBO finds something better to plug into its time slot.

  89. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    tysnow,

    It’s got Beric. Fucking. Dondarrion.

    Of course it will be.

  90. Jon
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    They have to eliminate or extremely simplify the Iron Islands and Dornish threads. Those characters cannot all be introduced and have adventures of their own. It will be too much for a TV audience.

    Season 4 will likely culminate around the Purple wedding and then Tyrions trial and the conquest of Mereen and susequent decision of Dany to stay. Jon will defend the Wall of the main wildling attack and become Lord Commander. .

    Season 5 will need to have a climax. So they will need to either fast forward one of the two main stories from Dance (The battle of Ice or Fire will need to be in Season 5 and tthe other in Season 6). I would personally do The Fire Battle first since that army needs to move the furthest to get to Westeros and into the main story.

    Season 6 could climax with the The battle for Winterfell in episode 9 and then for the kicker in episode 10 have a scene of Dany starting to land her Army while Jon Snow gets stabbed

    My 2 cents

  91. Josla
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Deekan,
    I agree with you about AFFC and ADWD. problem is its hard to top a book like ASOS but I found the Meeren knot very interesting (except Daario since I’m a die hard shipper of Jorah/Dany) and very mad because the kiss never happened x-( . Daenerys will probably get to Westeros and (hopefuly) become the queen by the very end of the saga, so we actually need to see her ruling before that happens and the stuff with the harpy and the slaves and the dragons and the krakens and the war kept me very interested in her story. Just hope by the end she opens her eyes and give her heart to Jorah <3

  92. Vincentious
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    GeekFurious:
    I will continue to point out, for the next 56 episodes of the series, that Nielsen overnight ratings for HBO are a ridiculous thing to focus on.

    Do you feel more and more pleased with yourself every week for pointing it out?

  93. Alan
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    darrylzero:
    Alan,

    And Frey pie! Which is maybe my favorite thing in the whole series.

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    This attitude continues to baffle me.Danny’s decision to stay in Mereen is the most adult decision she’s made!It doesn’t work out so well, but isn’t that the kind of thing that makes ASOIAF better than its competitors?Ruling *is* hard, and if Dany were immediately good at it — or if she didn’t as queen treat herself to the occasional piece of ass — she would been even less relatable than she already is.

    Dany is the only leader who has actually made an explicit decision for the benefit of the ruled over her own gains. Stannis may have defended the realm in the North, but it was to prove his right to rule; just witness how he has abandoned the Wall. Ned would have been just as hand and Robb likely so as well, but Robb’s fight was for vengeance and independence, not to help the people he ruled. Her choice to stay in Mereen is what makes me root for her, and I actually find myself somewhat disappointed that the ending of Dance seems to be her thinking that staying in Mereen was a mistake because she’s Westerosi — or that her destiny is the Iron Throne. I would not blame her for going to Westeros because the White Walkers are coming; but to abandon Mereen now because it is hard and because she wants her birthright is not a defensible moral decision to me.

    But this is why we enjoyed that storyline and others didn’t. It’s all about why you are reading — and no judgements here, really — but if you are reading to see how your favorite characters kick ass (and much of fantasy is simply this) — then Dance is not your book. But realistic characters struggling with incredibly difficult situations? Yeah, it’s got that.

  94. DH87
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    Steel_Wind: Put bluntly, the quality of the book series drops off markedly in the fourth book and fifth books, and GRRM needed an editor with some greater leverage than Ann Groehl had. Well, D&D aren’t Ann Groehl and I predict they are not going to cleave anywhere NEAR as closely to the books after Season 4 as they have so far.

    I agree with the assessment re: the fourth and fifth books but I would stand up for Ms. Groehl to the extent that, from what I’ve read, she’s tried to trim and hone content as much as she could. Her 2011 interview below sounds as though she’s done about as much as an editor could do with an enormously popular and profitable author without threatening their long, successful relationship. Unfortunately, many authors become completely impossible to edit once they are successful, for reasons that in their minds are good ones.

    http://sf-fantasy.suvudu.com/2011/07/dance-interview-with-george-r-r-martin-editor-anne-groell.html

  95. Arbot
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    mead,

    If there’s no hiatus, then someone had better get Ty ghostwriting because there’s no way that George finishes in time.

  96. Alan
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James:
    Alan,

    I wonder if they drop Theon for a season next year. Very hard to see where they go with his plot before Ramsay lets him outside again. To get to his escape, one of the (best) climaxes of ADWD, they have to be well into season 5.

    OTOH, I would not be surprised at all if Dany’s plot this season is essentially where she is by the end of ASOS. The distinction between Yunkai and Meereen is meaningless for non-readers, and for many readers as well. They could easily stop with her settling down there to rule.

    I would support the first point.

    As for Dany, they could do that, but what’s the point? They need a plot for her next season and while this season can be about her dominating, next season can be her deciding to abandon the plan for Westeros to take care of her children. That’s not so little as 2 hours of scenes would be stretching it.

    The storylines simply can’t get that far ahead of each other. Jon has a ton of plotline going forward — he can’t be running a season behind Dany (and the Dany/Jon parallels in Dance are gold). You could cut out Tyrion’s travels and fast forward him immediately to Mereen, and separate him from Jorah and do all that, but… why? That makes Season 4 completely crowded, required you cut the Iron Islands and Dorne completely, etc.

    I guess I do not understand everyone’s assumption that doing this faster is a good idea.

  97. Darquemode
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    I guess I do not understand everyone’s assumption that doing this faster is a good idea.

    I agree completely!
    Unless D&D are worried they will need to end the series after 6 seasons there is absolutely no reason to rush ahead by cutting so many arcs. It actually makes more sense to add more to the existing material. There are a lot of second and third hand account of events that could become new scenes in the series.

    Plus simply logic dictates that if they plan to follow the general outline of the books they need to keep certain character arcs moving at about the same pace. They cannot cut half a book of Dany without doing the same to other arcs. If they cut that amount across the board they are removing a potential season or two from the season on whole. That does not compute in my mind.

    They could of course cut some parts of her story and replace it with new material. Doing that keeps her arc in time with everyone else’s.

    Likewise for the people wanting Dorne cut, the Kingsmoot cut, Brienne’s questing cut, or Tyrion’s travels cut. It just does not make any sense unless they want to shorten the series on the whole. Some of that will be streamlined, tweaked, delayed, or rearranged I’m sure, but not removed completely.

  98. Maxwell James
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    I can’t speak for others, but for me it has nothing to do with going faster. It’s about what makes a good story. As we readers know, Dany’s story in ASOS is already halfway done, and by the end of this season it will be at least two-thirds done.

    That leaves all of two chapters before Dance: her taking of Meereen, including the assassination attempt, and her decision to stay there. While the showrunners might be able to stretch out the conquest somewhat compared to the books, the extent to which they can do so will be limited by budget – especially given the massive battle at the Wall. And there’s a big danger of repetition as well – after all, she’ll have spent most of this season conquering cities with foreignish-sounding names that aren’t part of Westeros. If they were to add more assassination attempts in season 5 to spice things up, that risks repetition as well.

    It’s just not much of an arc. But conversely, I think ending _this_ season by having her realize that she’s not just a conqueror but actually wants to try to protect her “children” would be a hell of an arc. Obviously it would leave even more questions about next year & beyond, but they’re going to have those anyway. My own preference for next year would be to roughly track her events in ADWD, minus the madness/visions of Quaithe – but to bring those parts on quite strong early in season 5, while also bringing back the lost visions from HotU.

  99. JamesL
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    Yea but other than the Beric and The Hound duel and naked Jon snow what else will ep 5 have? I don’t think very much exciting stuff will happens that episode.

  100. Matt
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    If they need some more interesting scenes they could always have some more Bran dreams where they can potentially show the Tower of Joy (complete with Sean Bean cameo), some of Roberts Rebellion, Lyanna and Raegar, The Battle of the Trident, the murder of the Mad King, hell you could bring back Sean Bean and film a whole bucket load of memory scenes.

    Remember kids, they aren’t *flashbacks*, their *visions* ;-)

  101. JamesL
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    I hope they bring Quaithe back this season so she can tell Dany the prophecies from the HotU. If she doesn’t show up again until S5 most people probably wouldn’t even remember her from S2 and it would seem very random. A lot of viewers have probably already forgotten her. I hope they don’t edit her out of the show because I love the mystical and mysterious elements of this story. I just hope they change that stupid mask they made her wear.

  102. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    As you can probably tell, I’m a huge Beric Dondarrion fan. So for me it will definitely be great. I think it will translate onto tv really well too – the only flaw being that the audience won’t care nearly as much about his character as they do Dany. That said, I bet people are really starting to love the Hound too. For me the battle is just so epic – and brilliant foreshadowing.

    Jon getting laid will be fun and, from the synopsis we see that Jaime and Brienne meet Roose Bolton and Tywin will probably reveal the Sansa marriage (Exciting for me)

  103. mags giantsbabe
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    The preview for ep 5 is already up over at kitharington.com. It looks pretty exciting to me. Beric and The Hound, Arya screaming “GO TO HELL”, Jamie being brought to Roose Bolton, Robb looking at some maps and talking politics with Karstark I think, Tywin talking about schemes (if I remember right), Tormund being suspicious of Jon, and the scene of Ygritte kissing Jon we’ve already seen. This is what I remember, there are other scenes as well but I don’t remember all of them.

  104. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    RE: TB vs GOT:

    Something that never seems to be mentioned is how much tougher GOT’s competition is in the Spring. They are competing with the NBA playoffs. TB has very little competition during the Summer.

  105. Maxwell James
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    Oh, I’m sure the more casual viewers have already forgotten Quaithe. Who cares? That’s what “Previously On..” is for. Besides, no one is objecting to Beric Dondarrion despite his very brief appearance in S1.

    It’s all about the execution. Quaithe appears to Dany in ADWD several times. What if, one of those times, she brings her shade of the evening, causing Dany to revisit (in dreams or otherwise) HoTU and see the visions?

    That’s one reason why, unlike some others, I was not that dismayed by the HoTU treatment in S2. Like the Black Lodge in Twin Peaks, there’s nothing preventing them from going back there when the time is right.

  106. DH87
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Agreed. One of its showrunners, as I recall, called TB “Popcorn for smart people.” It’s a summer-weight guilty pleasure. Poor Boardwalk Empire is up against the ratings juggernaut Sunday Night Football and gets creamed every week. I’d hate to see GOT put in that slot. I’m not sure we’d be where we are today in the ratings.

  107. Gregory Kelton
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Daniel:
    I just want to know what the hell the producers are going to do with the Meereen crap. Everyone is excited about what Dany is going to do with the army and the dragons but all she’s going to do is stay at a crappy city having sex with idiots. The producers have to do things very carefully after the Red Wedding if they don’t want to lose viewers.

    I have to agree. I’m also worried about this. At some point viewers are going to become incredibly frustrated with her lack of progress, same as a lot of readers. I think the problem is even WORSE on TV. At some point people are gonna ask “Why are we following her?

  108. Alan
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James:
    Alan,

    I can’t speak for others, but for me it has nothing to do with going faster. It’s about what makes a good story. As we readers know, Dany’s story in ASOS is already halfway done, and by the end of this season it will be at least two-thirds done.

    That leaves all of two chapters before Dance: her taking of Meereen, including the assassination attempt, and her decision to stay there. While the showrunners might be able to stretch out the conquest somewhat compared to the books, the extent to which they can do so will be limited by budget – especially given the massive battle at the Wall. And there’s a big danger of repetition as well – after all, she’ll have spent most of this season conquering cities with foreignish-sounding names that aren’t part of Westeros. If they were to add more assassination attempts in season 5 to spice things up, that risks repetition as well.

    It’s just not much of an arc. But conversely, I think ending _this_ season by having her realize that she’s not just a conqueror but actually wants to try to protect her “children” would be a hell of an arc. Obviously it would leave even more questions about next year & beyond, but they’re going to have those anyway. My own preference for next year would be to roughly track her events in ADWD, minus the madness/visions of Quaithe – but to bring those parts on quite strong early in season 5, while also bringing back the lost visions from HotU.

    They still have the intro of Daario and any subsequent love story as well as the element of Jorah’s betrayal. There’s elements to work with here that have little to do with overarching plot points.

    It’s not like I can’t see what you are saying, but you still aren’t solving the Season 5 issue, though. It’s possible that D&D have already decided to cut most of Dance, or that they know that Winter has a ton of plot points for Dany and so they could shift her ahead in plot a year or so before everyone else. It’s possible.

    But it doesn’t seem likely. The Mereenese knot was getting everyone to Dany in the right timing. It seems somewhat important, and everything is so entangled that it seems much more likely that accelerating Dany’s storyline in Season 4 means taking her Dance storyline out over 2-3 seasons rather than perpetually being able to be ahead. If she gets out of whack, eventually either she needs to slow down or an entire season needs to be cut out of everyone else’s storyline.

    If Season 4 ends in the Dragon Pit for Dany, what happens to her in Season 5? Like I said, Tyrion could go instantly from KL to Mereen but I don’t know how they’d explain whatever it is he’d do there. Is there time in Season 5 to service the rest of Dance and Feast into one season? Or is Dany now treading water for 2 seasons as we try to get through 2 books and catch up?

    Though they aren’t going book for book, they have tried to keep it chronologically intact — events occur in order. And recent comments about having it be intended to be consumed as one big story at the end lead me to believe that even season long arcs are at risk now.

    My expectation: we end this season with Mhysa, and they manufacture more difficulties with Mereen and Daario and Dany decides to stay at the end of it. It keeps the chronology intact, and I don’t know that they have much time to spend on Dany next year.

  109. Morgan King
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    As far as future Dany stories go, there lots of room to flesh out the Sons of the Harpy thing and they can play up the Greyjoys interest in her (I mean how incredible was that Winds of Winter chapter?!). D&D surely know the future chapters have to play out a little more dramatically – the real question is can they do it better than that tepid Quarth story they came up with last season. So far in Season 3, it seems they’ve figured out how to handle Dany’s scenes with much more success.

  110. JamesL
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    I watched the preview for ep. 5 again and I think this will also be the episode when Karstark kills the young Lannister hostages and Robb beheads him.

  111. Suzaku
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    There’s usually a spike in ratings after epic episodes, even if the epic episodes themselves don’t spike at all, or even drop.

    I think the positive word of mouth for episode 3 probably gave a slight boost to episode 4, and episode 5 will probably have a huge boost.

  112. Steve
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    totally agree…just when it got good, fin

  113. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    Oh yeah!

    God that scene is so depressing. Was the point in the books where I was like: “Yeah. Robb doesn’t stand a chance”.

  114. DH87
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    FWIW, it’s been confirmed that HBO is planning six seasons (10-12 episodes each) of American Gods, based on the Neil Gaiman books, beginning late this year or early next year. At $35-$40 million per year, it will come in higher than TB but less than GOT.

    This poses an interesting situation. I can’t imagine HBO having three of four of its Sunday night tentpole series as fantasy/horror offerings, with only BE, a costume drama, in a different category. That would leave News Room as the only current one-hour contemporary drama. It may very well be that American Gods is the TB replacement in the pipeline.

  115. House Snow
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    I know its completely off the wall but one option for Dany is to have her go somewhere, she hasn’t gone to in the books for a year aand make up a storyline. It would be risky but it would be kind of cool is she goes to MYR or wherever maybe find a way to incorporate some of the prophecy stuff somehow

  116. ATG
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    Good news indeed

  117. Ser Tahu
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    Hawk: Alex Dubrovsky,

    There is plenty of great story to make AFFC/ADWD three seasons, and that’s the best thing the producers can do to allow GRRM time to finish the novels before the TV show catches him up…

    This.
    The books themselves easily have enough for two seasons, and then if you include the great stuff that was mentioned but not shown (such as Quentyn’s voyage to Volantis, Aegon conquering the stormlands, Rickon and Osha’s journey, the wildlings at hardhome and Kevan ruling in King’s landing just to name a few), they have enough for three good seasons, and can end season 7 on Stannis vs the Boltons and/or the Battle for Meereen, which were both supposed to close out ADwD.

    Also, given that D&D have said that the siege of the Wall will be in the latter half of season 4, I have a feeling that the election of the new Lord Commander could be pushed back to the start of season 5.

  118. Maxwell James
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    Alan: but you still aren’t solving the Season 5 issue, though.

    No, I’m not. My point is simply that it’s a tough call. They could inflate her story next year, or keep it to the background, and then try to wring as much drama out of her Dance narrative in S5 (and maybe 6). Or they can try to shift the timeline somewhat. I prefer the latter option for reasons already mentioned, but I can certainly understand your view as well.

    To be clear though: I’m not for cutting her actual arc from Dance. I’d like to see it improved, but you’re right that there’s a good story in there. I just think that the storyline would be best off if they wrap up the conquest of Slaver’s Bay this year.

  119. Ser Tahu
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    DH87:
    FWIW, it’s been confirmed that HBO is planning six seasons (10-12 episodes each) of American Gods, based on the Neil Gaiman books, beginning late this year or early next year. At $35-$40 million per year, it will come in higher than TB but less than GOT.

    This poses an interesting situation. I can’t imagine HBO having three of four of its Sunday night tentpole series as fantasy/horror offerings, with only BE, a costume drama, in a different category. That would leave News Room as the only current one-hour contemporary drama. It may very well be that American Gods is the TB replacement in the pipeline.

    Source please? If this is true, I am very happy because American Gods sounds extremely interesting, while True Blood, or at least the 20 episodes I have seen (I am currently watching it) has been rather mediocre with far too much of a focus on sex.

    Now all I need if for HBO to grow a brain and pick up The Dark Tower. It could serve as a replacement for Boardwalk Empire (which I don’t see getting a season 5 renewal).

    Also, I don’t see the abundance of fantasy programmes being a problem, I think HBO will be more concerned with whether they are interesting or not.

    EDIT: I just found the source for the American Gods news. This makes me very happy indeed.

    EDIT2: it is also worth mentioning that HBO has confirmed that they are making a crime drama series called True Detective, for which a lot of characters have already been cast, so that could be either a TB or Treme replacement (probably Treme)

  120. Mursk
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    I actually think AFFC and ADWD content will be better on screen than it was in written form.

    For one it won’t be split on the show, we won’t get a season of watching Brienne and Cersei with no sign of Tyrion. This eradicates the belly-aching that readers experienced. Viewers won’t go through that.

    And we know stuff can be added.

    I think viewers will really enjoy the stuff happening in the north and more Tyrell/Lannister tension in KL. They’re curious about Dorne just like us readers were.

  121. DH87
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I hadn’t heard about True Detective. That will be a low-cost, contemporary, back-lot set piece, I assume. The likes of Spartacus, the Borgias, GOT, etc., will be the bread and butter of the premium channels in the future since basic cable is breathing down their necks with the likes of Mad Men, Walking Dead, Vikings, and other original programming featuring marquee-name writers and directors.

  122. Ser Tahu
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    Agreed. And upon looking up more information about True Detective it will only have 8 episodes, so I think it will replace Treme as one of HBO’s second tier dramas and take over its time slot when Treme’s shortened final season ends, with American Gods either replacing TB or BE as a new top tier drama.

    Also, just out of curiosity, in the USA, HBO has Game of Thrones as their main drama in spring, TB in summer and BE in autumn, but what is their main drama in winter?

  123. DH87
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I mis-spoke: although GOT has l0 episodes annually, both BE and TB typically have 12, for a total of 34 weeks of tent pole programming on Sunday at 9 PM. Typically the other Sundays during the year are filled with miniseries such as Hemingway and Gelhorn and Mildred Pierce, “marathon repeat” Sundays on holiday weekends, and one-time specials such as Behind the Candelabra this Memorial Day weekend.

  124. Ser Tahu
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    so there is no fourth major HBO series?

  125. kaldor
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    NewJeffCT,

    one can dream :)

  126. DH87
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    The ill-fated Luck, featuring top-tier actors and writers, was the fourth Sunday tent pole prior to its abrupt cancellation in January of 2012, despite its renewal for a second season, after the deaths of several horses on the set led to a large public outcry. It would have been the “Winter” tent pole. I didn’t subscribe to HBO over the winter of 2013 but I don’t believe there was any replacement for Luck this year.

    HBO commissions a number of pilots in the hopes that one or more of them can move into the tentpole position, including one from he-who-can-do-no-wrong (according to HBO) Alan Ball, but his pilot for All Signs of Death, a much-anticipated follow up to True Blood, was not picked up either by HBO or any other network.

  127. Ser Tahu
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    anyway, I still stand by my prediction (italics means possible, but it could end naturally before it). I expect it to be anywhere between 9-12 seasons in the end (assuming that it doesn’t get cancelled), my guess would be 10:
    2014 season 4 – ASoS part 2 (potentially + the kingsmoot)
    2015 season 5 – AFfC part 1 + ADwD part 1
    2016 season 6 – AFfC part 2 + ADwD part 2
    2017 season 7 – ADwD part 3 + Stannis vs the Boltons and/or The Battle for Meereen II
    2018 season 8 – TWoW part 1
    2019 season 9 – TWoW part 2 (GRRM said that it will be longer than ASoS) AND/OR ADoS part 1
    2020 season 10 – ADoS part 1 (if TWoW is two full seasons) OR ADoS part 2
    2021 season 11 – ADoS part 2 (if ADoS starts in season 10) OR possible book 8
    2022 – season 12 – book 8 (if there is one)/em>

  128. Ser Tahu
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    yet another reason for them to make The Dark Tower…

  129. DH87
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    If you are right, virtually every recurring part will need to be recast, since the “children” will be grown and some of those in their fifties will be reaching retirement age.

  130. Arthur
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    I said this before and ill say it again.

    HBO needs to do more major miniseries. I have been wishing for many years now that HBO puts their muscle and resources behind and revises the classic 1981 TV miniseries ‘Shogun’.

    That was my first experience watching a series I really enjoyed as a kid. I remember begging to stay up late enough to watch it and laying on the living room floor looking forward to it every week. It was magical.

    I can’t imagine how awesome ‘Shogun’ would be if done in this time and era HBO style.

    I really hope it gets remade sometime before I pass away and HBO would be the only network I’d choose for this. Someone talk to an HBO executive!!!

  131. Set Dingleberry
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    This will never happen, three seasons of ADwD FfC material would be the end of the show, I suspect they’ll fit most of the material from those books in a season or 1 1/2 seasons at most, drawing out the two most uneventful books into three seasons would ensure that the show is cancelled. I suspect whatever D&D film after season 4 will be nearly unrecognizable from the books excepting the 5 or 6 interesting scenes in these books

  132. Set Dingleberry
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I also think GRRM will have finished WoW before season 5 ends, barring his death. HBO is surely putting pressure on him to finish the last two books, and are likely making him an offer he can’t refuse as far as a massive bonus to get the material for future seasons out by a certain date. This is of course assuming the show maintains/surpasses it’s current success. Which it won’t if they try to adapt AFfC/ADwD to screen as faithfully as the previous books.

  133. DH87
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    I’m afraid the sadly ubiquitous Tom Cruise in his Shogun retread The Last Samurai pretty much killed off any desire to revisit that territory, and I think he’s killed off Childs’s Jack Reacher series, too.

    The Big Three premium channels have finally opened their wallets wide enough to interest those in Hollywood who don’t want to make comic book/superhero movies. And there’s always interest in adaptations of novels as series or miniseries. They are Hollywood’s life blood, not comic book licenses.

  134. DH87
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:35 pm | Permalink

    Set Dingleberry,

    Didn’t we read that HBO has offered GRRM an option on a GOT prequel? That would be much easier to write for a TV veteran like him than the last two books of ASoIaF and he could undertake it without D&D.

  135. WildSeed
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair:
    Yeah, yeah, Nielsen is next to irrelevant and the Emmys are a mummers farce.
    Whatever.

    GAME OF THRONES IS ON FIRE!!!!

    Sound the bells!The University of Wisconsin-Madison has.You see, they have a bell tower there.And that bell tower has a (ready?) carillonneur.And that carillonneur can play — the GoT opening theme!

    Lyle Anderson, carillonneur, and the University of Wisconsin-Madision support the bottom!

    Oh my goodness, I’ve been to that campus and listened to that very bell ! Say,
    was Univ of Wisc-Madison and the Bell Tower a template for that Simpson’s
    parody of Game of Thrones ?

  136. Ned
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    AFFC/ADWD will be two seasons … Not 1, Not 3.
    2014: Season 4 (ASOS plus some elements AFFC/ADWD)
    2015: Season 5 (AFFC/ADWD part 1, plus one flashback episode towards the end dealing with Roberts Rebellion, Rhagear/Lyanna, Mad King)
    2016: Season 6 (AFFC/ADWD part 2, ending with one of the major battles that starts WoW, you need a huge battle to keep people interested)
    2017: Season 7 (WoW part 1)
    2018: Season 8 (WoW part 2, ADOS part 1)
    2019: Season 9 (ADOS part 2, the conclusion)
    -To do A Song of Ice and Fire justice it would need a minimum of 8 seasons, no way they get more than 10, or like I have proposed, likely 9 seasons. Also its entirely feasible they film the 9th season, based off GRRMS rough draft for ADOS (David and Dan know the ending) and wait to release Season 9 it to coincide with the book release of ADOS. HBO could just sit on Season 9, it will likely have heavy CGI anyway.

  137. Arthur
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    What do you think of a major network trying to make a go and adapting an anime series into a plausible TV series?

    There are so many original and creative adult anime series out there. If adapted to a western audience correctly they could work. Hollywood loves to basically steal a lot of anime concepts but how about a TV network making a series out of one?

    A series like ‘Ergo Proxy’ or ‘Black Lagoon’. What about ‘Claymore’ or ‘Deathnote’ or even a weird romance like ‘Spice and Wolf’.

    There is a gold mine of japanesse anime just waiting to be introduced into the western populace in an entertainment media adaptation that would make them enjoyable to the western world.

    Would HBO ever be brave enough to try this?

  138. Lars
    Posted April 23, 2013 at 11:55 pm | Permalink

    Ned:
    -To do A Song of Ice and Fire justice it would need a minimum of 8 seasons, no way they get more than 10, or like I have proposed, likely 9 seasons.Also its entirely feasible they film the 9th season, based off GRRMS rough draft for ADOS (David and Dan know the ending) and wait to release Season 9 it to coincide with the book release of ADOS.HBO could just sit on Season 9, it will likely have heavy CGI anyway.

    David & Dan have already said that they are planning 8 seasons. Don’t expect more. They know the end-game, so they can adjust the plot speed to match.

    And don’t think of the seasons as “part A of book B”. They are no longer matching seasons to books.

  139. WildSeed
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 12:00 am | Permalink

    DH87:
    FWIW, it’s been confirmed that HBO is planning six seasons (10-12 episodes each) of American Gods, based on the Neil Gaiman books, beginning late this year or early next year. At $35-$40 million per year, it will come in higher than TB but less than GOT.

    This poses an interesting situation. I can’t imagine HBO having three of four of its Sunday night tentpole series as fantasy/horror offerings, with only BE, a costume drama, in a different category. That would leave News Room as the only current one-hour contemporary drama. It may very well be that American Gods is the TB replacement in the pipeline.

    Interesting. Of course there were these as contenders in case other shows failed
    ( i.e. Enlightened, and a couple of others ). I’ve read somewhere TrueBlood has
    been reduced from 12 episodes to 10. However the greenlight was finally given to
    the project you just mentioned, it’s nice to learn of fresh programs for submission.
    Perhaps ” Girls ” will no longer be considered best in show anymore, with
    the likes of ” Newsroom “, “American Gods ” and Game of Thrones as contenders
    for the Emmys and similar awards.

    Thanks as always for your insights shared here.

  140. DH87
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 12:04 am | Permalink

    Arthur,

    I’m afraid I’m not familiar enough with anime to make an intelligent assessment. I will say that HBO likes to work with the same writers, directors, showrunners, and actors over and over again and would be open to any concept their stable of successful showrunners would propose. However, as I mentioned, not every idea gets the green light to go to pilot and not every pilot is picked up. That said, Ball’s proposal subsequent to All Signs of Death, Banshee, is on the HBO sister channel Cinemax and his next project, Wichita, most probably will land at HBO one way or another. Just about anyone who has worked on The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, Generation Kill, or True Blood (or on The Wire) seems to have popped up again and again on the HBO roster, regardless of his project’s subject matter. It’s just one big, happy family there.

  141. WildSeed
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 12:12 am | Permalink

    DH87:
    Arthur,

    I’m afraid the sadly ubiquitous Tom Cruise in his Shogun retread The Last Samurai pretty much killed off any desire to revisit that territory, and I think he’s killed off Childs’s Jack Reacher series, too.

    The Big Three premium channels have finally opened their wallets wide enough to interest those in Hollywood who don’t want to make comic book/superhero movies. And there’s always interest in adaptations of novels as series or miniseries. They are Hollywood’s life blood, not comic book licenses.

    Mr Cruise has a fan following, I’m certain, but I cringe whenever he puts his
    hand to any project. I’ve really tried to appreciate the effort, yet nothing affects
    me of his acting. I read all of Michner’s books, and had hoped that the bad
    adaptations didn’t quit with Tom Cruise’s ” Last Samurai “. I could not sit
    through 15 minutes of it. I would speculate that other producers have
    considered what Arthur is proposing here, though. All it takes is an
    influential supporter to help spearhead any film project, there’s some good
    stuff already written with a sizable fan base. Perhaps that’s why GRR Martin
    has thrown his hat in the ring *>*

  142. DH87
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 12:13 am | Permalink

    WildSeed: Thanks as always for your insights shared here.

    My pleasure. I follow these adaption projects closely for reasons of my own but I mostly spout stuff I’ve read elsewhere, on industry blogs, which most people find too dreary to read.

    TB was reduced from 12 eps to 10 for the upcoming season due to the pregnancy of the lead, Anna Paquin, who delivered twins in early fall of 2012 and not for any other reason, at least any public one. But the new showrunner was unceremoniously replaced just four episodes in, so it turned out to be a wise decision in hindsight.

    The half-hour shows, like Girls, are always minor actors in the HBO scheduling universe, since it’s been pretty well determined that the tent poles bring in new, short-term subscribers and keep them subscribing if they are successful enough.

  143. Arthur
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 12:24 am | Permalink

    DH87,

    Well I guess talent attracts talent and once you find a place you like and feel appreciated in you tend to stay. So that’s a good testament to the inner workings of HBO.

    However I still hope HBO is willing to take gambles and try new ideas. That being said I guess I would like these HBO insiders to do some homework and look at other entertainment formats from foreign lands and see if they can be adapted for the western viewer.

    Many anime series are adaptations from adult manga that very often have very unique and intriguing concepts. ‘Ergo Proxy’ would be such an original series, it’s like the original ‘Blade Runner’ but way more deep.

    I don’t know, HBO is really head and shoulders above the other premier cable networks. It’s a shame they can’t do more because there is so much that can be done.

    The golden age of television… I just want more of everything and a lot of stuff I never thought possible for TV.

    As a kid I grew up buying and watching anime and with modern day technology many of my favorite series can now be easily adapted for television just no TV network has had the balls to do it yet.

  144. DH87
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 12:34 am | Permalink

    Arthur,

    My opinion is that former HBO head Chris Albrecht, who is now at Starz and bought Spartacus, is the innovative, risk-taker among the big three premium channels, not Mr. Lombardo and his HBO colleagues. Spartacus started as a joke and ended up pretty widely acclaimed (Mo Ryan, for example, is a huge fan, as was I) and I believe Starz has signed a development deal with Stephen DeKnight, the Spartacus show-runner, for a new series. If new ideas were to be pitched, I’d take them to Albrecht, who has taste and foresight.

    And, remember GRRM labored for the broadcast networks on Beauty and the Beast, unappreciated and unsupported, thirty years ago. When you look at that show, it had in addition to GRRM, Linda Hamilton, Ron Perlman, Roy Dotrice, and Rick Baker (who has won many Oscars in the meantime for his brilliant make up work) and yet couldn’t get more than a couple of seasons on CBS, I believe. It was like serving a gourmet meal to doorstops: a doomed enterprise from the get-go.

  145. Arthur
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 12:52 am | Permalink

    DH87,

    Spartacus was awesome! I was a fan from the start. It is such a shame Andy died of they rare blood cancer. He really had that persona. I still watched the series but I always missed him.

    It reminds me how important that traditional lead role is. The guy who plays Ragnar in Vikings also has that strong persona and I love him. He is to Vikings what Andy was to Spartacus…

    All the GoT actors are awesome but none draw me in like Andy did or Travis does. Spartacus was great, I think it’s Starz only hit series ever. I love time period pieces and I hope to see more of them. Rome is still my all time favorite…

    I wonder if GoT opened the door for other fantasy classics like ‘The Icewind Dale Trilogy’. Again, stuff I loved as a kid, that now, with modern day visual technology can easily be made into a TV series. Imagine Wulfgar and Drizzt on your tv screen. It is a very exciting time we are entering as far as the television series ability is concerned.

    HBO with GoT is really showcasing this and pushing that envelope…

  146. PhoenixDark
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 1:55 am | Permalink

    Hawk,

    Agreed 100%. There’s more than enough good material in ADWD to create compelling television. And considering the King’s Landing scenes have been the strongest thus far in all three seasons, I have a feeling AFFC will translate very well on screen.

  147. Ser Tahu
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 2:02 am | Permalink

    Lars,

    No, they said 80 hours, and in the context that the statement was made it was just an example to make a point, they have set it in stone.

  148. Ser Tahu
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 2:03 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    Haven’t set it in stone*

    For some reason I couldn’t edit the post -_-.

  149. Brian Aufderheide
    Posted April 24, 2013 at 3:50 am | Permalink

    Steel_Wind,

    I could not agree more Steel Wind! Amen brother. There is lots of good material from books 4 and 5 but damn where was the editor??? A quarter to a third easily should have been wiped out. I will be severely disappointed if D&D do not edit the hell out of it. As someone else pointed out there are people already bitching about Theon’s plot which I think they have handled nearly as perfectly as possible. What will it be like when she is mired in this city for what seems forever?

  150. Abyss
    Posted April 25, 2013 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Arthur: However I still hope HBO is willing to take gambles and try new ideas. That being said I guess I would like these HBO insiders to do some homework and look at other entertainment formats from foreign lands and see if they can be adapted for the western viewer.

    Many anime series are adaptations from adult manga that very often have very unique and intriguing concepts.

    Apparently HBO is listing to you. ;-)

  151. Rivias
    Posted April 26, 2013 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    watched this videoclip from LAPALUX ” without you” and i realised it was the girl from game of thrones Natalie Tena :-)
    http://t.co/VC5DDKuXZx

  152. שיפוצים בירושלים
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    You will be is a superior webmaster. The internet site loading pace will be amazing. It seems that you’ll be performing just about any exclusive secret. Furthermore, This contents are mona lisa. you’ve done beautiful exercise during this subject matter!


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