Episode 25 – Kissed By Fire – Newbie Recap
By Winter Is Coming on in Recap.

Thoros and Beric

Our newbie recapper Oz of Thrones gives his take on last night’s episode, after the break. New viewers are encouraged to discuss the episode at length in the comments! Book readers, enjoy the read but please don’t spoil the upcoming surprises.

Spoiler note: The discussion in this post is primarily for non-book readers (book fans can discuss the show here). We ask all the series veterans to refrain from posting spoilers in the comments here, veiled or otherwise. This show is best viewed without knowing all the surprises beforehand, so please be respectful of your fellow fans. Thank you!

Oz of Thrones: Your weary traveling, self-proclaimed leader of the Unsullied returned to House Oz in time to view Episode 25 via DVR after getting the Ozlings to sleep after an exciting, yet short trip to see the shores and building some Westeros-esque sand castles. Fun indeed, although they were quite confused when I started tearing one down while trying to explain to them that it was Harrenhall. Harren what, daddy? Why does hair in a hall tear down a castle?

What a fantastic episode. You know you should be in a for some great things when Ned shows up in the “Previously on” segment. So many games, and only fifty-something minutes to play. Let’s recap and discuss…..

Game of Swords: Beric and the Hound proceed with their duel, with The Lord of Light flaming sword in action. The Hound gets the best of Beric, nearly chopping his complete right side off of his body. But the one true God apparently does have some amazing power, as Beric is spared. Ozzette quickly remembered when the Red Woman told Davos that she could have saved Stannis’ men at Blackwater had she been allowed to go. Maybe that wasn’t BS after all.

Game of Chase: Orell and Tormund question the loyalty of Jon Snow and ask him about the security at the Wall and how many men are ready to fight at Castle Black. I really liked seeing Jon finally stand up for himself after being called a liar. Then, Ygritte questions his loyalty to his vows by stealing his sword and luring him into the Cave of Love. Apparently, Jon Snow does know something, after all. And Ygritte apparently has real feelings for Jon.

Game of Hygiene: After seeing one bath with Jon and Ygritte, we get treated to another after Jamie is brought back to Harrenhall by Locke. James Bond Bolton gets Jamie’s wound treated by a guy named Qyburn (i think) in a nasty looking scene that made Ozzette cringe. And then another, unlikely bath takes place between Jaime and Brienne, where we are treated to the powerful backstory of the mad king and why Jaime did what he did. I thought this scene was brilliant, and we are really getting to know who Jaime Lannister is.

Game of Treason: I understand that Karstark was highly perturbed by his son being killed by Jaime, only to be set free by Catelyn. But murdering the Lannister kids? After being begged to not kill Karstark in fear of losing the support of his men, Robb does so anyway. And Karstarks’ men leave. But Robb comes up with a new plan involving Walder Frey and his men. I’m not sure exactly how he expects to get Frey’s support after being promised to one of his daughters only to marry another, but we shall see.

A Different Side of Stannis: We meet Stannis’ wife and daughter, which shows the man in a different light than we viewers-only have been exposed to. Stannis wants to come clean with his wife about his sins, but she already knows as the Red Woman has spilled the beans before she left for the Red Woman Workshop. We then learn the love his daughter has for Davos. The Onion Knight never responded to my letter last week, possibly because he can’t read. Maybe Shireen will read it to him and I will get a response. A man will keep you informed. BTW, were the jar of fetuses necessary? And what happened to Shireen’s face? (No spoilers please).

Game of Pride: Great scene between Barristen Selmy and Jorah Mormont exchanging old battle stories. But you already get a sense of tension here between them. I wonder if this will escalate and turn into a bigger issue, or if we are just seeing these two interact as a story line filler as Dany gets more accustomed to her new army. I like Barristen, but he better not mess with Jorah.

Game of Asses: After seeing the buttocks of many of the main characters I never expected to see (Ygritte, Jon, Jamie, and Brienne), we see the back side of an unknown man working to get info for Littlefinger while engaging in some passionate sword fighting of a different kind with Loras. Which leads to…..

Game of Matrimony: Upon finding out that the Tyrells plan on marrying Sansa off to Loras, thus holding control of the North, Tywin comes up with his own version of match maker by wedding Tyrion to Sansa. What? Cersei seems thrilled, until daddy drops the bomb on her that she will be marrying Loras. Ohhhh….. a Cersei buzzkill. This could quickly morph into an epic episode of Bridezillas of Westeros.

Episode 305 Personal Awards
Favorite Scene: The bath with Jaime and Brienne
Ow, That Shit Hurts Award: The treatment of Jaime’s wound. I sincerely hope it gets better now.
New Series Record: Most individual butt cheeks in a single episode (I do not know if you can actually check the statistics on this, but I think we can all agree that there was plenty of booty to go around).
New Jackass Award: If only for one episode, Stannis is relieved of his post as he actually showed he might have somewhat of a heart and a tiny bit of a conscious. The new crown goes to Karstark for killing innocent Lannister children. Loser. While it was probably a bad strategic move by Robb to remove Karstark’s head, I am glad he did.

Final Thoughts: Solid. I was nervous about the follow-up to last weeks epic episode, but it seems I had nothing to fear. GoT rarely disappoints, although I am concerned that with so many plots and schemes (dammit, I did it again) that there will be many unanswered questions as we are already halfway through the season. And for the love of all that is sacred, can we please get a better understanding of the Theon debacle next week?(#tiredofbeatingthedeadkracken)

Until Friday with a Looking Forward Ep. 26, have a great week, and may there be peace in your realm. -Oz


132 Comments

  1. Andy Gavin (@asgavin
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    The dragon fire may have died down, but the heat is still on. Fire is the name of the game this week: fiery swords, pyromancer’s, redhead goodness, and twists and turns galore. As usual, Martin is the master of the reversal and this week is full of ups and downs. I’m still trying to figure out how they’re going to get an entire season and a half out of the parts of A Storm of Swords they haven’t covered… But as always, my detailed thoughts on the episode can be found on my blog.

  2. The Geek in the North
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Second Sons!!

  3. Drew
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Good to see another newbie liking this episode… one of the Atlantic’s recappers said that he “can hardly imagine what it would be like to swallow all these developments in a single sitting as a non-reader of the books” but I’m new and enjoyed it plenty. http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/04/the-increasingly-egalitarian-nudity-on-em-game-of-thrones-em/275367/

  4. Hodor
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    HODOR

  5. Naten53
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Hodor,

    I saw the first comment wasn’t hodor, then the second, and third and fourth and I was like “could it be me?” then Hodor beat me to it

    Edit: and then it looks like one of the first four was deleted and I look dumb :(

  6. Winter Is Coming
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Oz asked not to be spoiled about Shireen. He’s asking other non-readers to offer their theories about her, not for book readers to straight out tell him. Please stop posting info from the books in here!

  7. Dunk
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    (dammit, I did it again)

    LOL – even the Sullied do not always remember – plots and schemes are the same thing

  8. Jen
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    I wonder if there’s a reason they didn’t mention what’s wrong with Shireen’s face in this episode, actually.

  9. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    Stannis was NOT redeemed at all thus episode. He may as well have told his kid that the tooth fairy is in jail forgrand theft dental!

  10. Hounded
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    I Know of Fear,

    Stannis = 50′s Dad

  11. greg
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    WTFs on Shireens face lol? Don’t answer me if were gonna find out anyways. Jamie’s becoming one of my favorite characters, which is unbelievable considering how much I loathed him after stabbing Ned. And that song at the end was creepy as fuck. I thought someone or something was gonna stab me.

  12. Dana
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    I wonder, can Melissandre /Lord of light stuff save anybody who believes in the lord of light? or is Beric a chosen one? Melissandre always told stannis he is the chosen one… so I wonder if she is playing him?

  13. Dana
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    greg,

    Shireen’s face looks like it has been burnt… how? I have no idea… may have to do with the Lord of Light ? LOL so confusinggggggggggg
    Her scene with davos was soooo sweeet <3

  14. Hounded
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    greg,

    Glad to see some non-book readers are coming round to Jaime. Now you see why us book readers have such a soft spot for him!
    Oh and he didn’t stab Ned. He fought with Ned then one of his men stabbed Ned in the leg to end the fight (which annoyed Jaime cause he wanted a fair fight.)

  15. superkick
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Good to see another newbie liking this episode… one of the Atlantic’s recappers said that he “can hardly imagine what it would be like to swallow all these developments in a single sitting as a non-reader of the books” but I’m new and enjoyed it plenty. http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/04/the-increasingly-egalitarian-nudity-on-em-game-of-thrones-em/275367/

    Ever single non-book reader review ive read today absolutely loved the episode. As ive said before the reviewers at the atlantic have their heads up their asses. Book reader reviews are so dull and boring.

  16. outdoorcats
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Well, when it comes to Theon’s story we’re all ‘Unsullied,’ but my prediction? They’re going to drag out that whole mystery the w-h-o-l-e season only for a big reveal in one of the last two episodes. I feel like they wouldn’t keep us in the dark this long just to reveal it halfway through the season. Who knows, though.

  17. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    Hey wonderful readers and commenters of WiC…. Just a reminder: we are the Unsullied non-book readers. As Winter said before, if it is spoilery out of the books, we don’t want to know. I don’t know if Shireens face is a spoiler or not, but the fact is that it is one of those undisclosed obvious on-screen occurrences that the show will probably explain later. All we can do is speculate, and we would like to keep speculating. So no spoilers please good Sullied people!

    I would like to know from the Sullied if you were surprised or shocked by anything from this episode even having read the books. But no Spoilers!!

  18. Richard
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    Loved the episode, don’t have much to add to what others have said, but I was instantly miffed at hearing Theon Greyjoy/Ironborn/dead kids theme being recycled from Season 2 for Robb Stark beheading the Karstark leader. I just thought that was lazy composing/inappropriate music reuse (it makes sense to use The Lord Of Light theme for whoever worships that religion, for example), but maybe it’s my fault for assuming it was Theon’s theme and it’s really a theme for when things turn really bad for a character? Maybe it’s supposed to parallel both moments (both men making decisions to go over the line to which they can never come back from?). I’ll get over it, ha.

  19. greg
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    I’m rewatching it right now, and as someone who doesn’t have any knowledge of source material to compare it to, I really think this is the best show ever. I even liked the Dragonstone scenes this week which I sometimes feel are disconnected from the rest, but some nice insight into Stannis in this episode. I wonder if I will be able to hold off reading the books until the series is over, but waiting between episodes and seasons is torture!

  20. sansa
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    I would like to know from the Sullied if you were surprised or shocked by anything from this episode even having read the books. But no Spoilers!!

    Well, I was surprised (and freaked out) by the jar babies. Other than that I was just surprised how closely the show followed the books this episode and how freaking good every scene was. Every other week there’s been one scene I absolutely hate (Pod the sex god, wizard in a box) but this week every scene was better than excellent. Hats off to Bryan Cogman :)

  21. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    I liked it. The music was the same played when Theon botched the beheading of Ser Rodrik Cassel. Great acting from Richard Madden.

  22. sansa
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Richard:
    Loved the episode, don’t have much to add to what others have said, but I was instantly miffed at hearing Theon Greyjoy/Ironborn/dead kids theme being recycled from Season 2 for Robb Stark beheading the Karstark leader.I just thought that was lazy composing/inappropriate music reuse (it makes sense to use The Lord Of Light theme for whoever worships that religion, for example), but maybe it’s my fault for assuming it was Theon’s theme and it’s really a theme for when things turn really bad for a character?Maybe it’s supposed to parallel both moments (both men making decisions to go over the line to which they can never come back from?).I’ll get over it, ha.

    I think you’re right that they meant to parallel the two moments. Robb got his head off with one swing and Theon made a botch of things, too. So I guess they are trying to show that Robb is more capable compared to Theon, or something like that.

  23. Perkins
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    great bridezilla reference.

  24. outdoorcats
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    I would like to know from the Sullied if you were surprised or shocked by anything from this episode even having read the books. But no Spoilers!!

    1) Jar babies!!
    2) Roose Bolton messing with Jaime. That was very funny. I love the actor who plays “James Bond Bolton.”

  25. Yellow Dog
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Shame on the Sullied who tried to spoil Oz on Shireen, and I hope WiC bans that person.

    C’mon, people: if we spoil the Unsullied, they will go away and stop providing us such wonderful new-eyes insights into the show.

  26. Dana
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    Yellow Dog,

    Who spoilt it for Oz? Did i miss something!

  27. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    So I was watching the Hound cope with his fear, barely keeping his cool, and then he nearly cleaves a man in half! Not quite as powerful as his brother beheading a horse, but still fatal. And when the dude’s buddy flings himself over a corpse and starts praying for it not to be all over I’m saying “He’s dead Jim; that man is gone and there’s no point in praying for his recov–whoa! That is not normal!” And then it turns out this has happened five time before, so I guess it is normal for some people. How creepy is it that fire is the only thing that can kill zombies while the fire religion can resurrect people with their minds intact?

    And it turns out Jon Snow didn’t need to know where to put it, he has better talents anyway. Was anyone else underwhelmed by his petite tush? I don’t think anyone disagrees with Jon<Jaime<Spy in the department. I guess all those actors were sick of Alfie getting all the attention. Speaking of the spy, I'm glad to see little finger back in the game; now I'm sure he'd win the an election in Westeros because he can buy/seduce/blackmail the whole continent.

    I notice Tywin loves playing matchmaker: I suspect none of his plans are going to work out. And Gendry flirting with a little kid is creepy, but I guess it was worth a shot considering she is a princess. Does he know he is of royal blood, or was the Night's Watch convoy not told why there was a warrant for him?

  28. The Kraken Prince
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    As a fan of Theon’s story arc, I hate to see other’s complain about it this season.

  29. Card of Doom
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Dana,

    They removed it.

    BTW – I love these recaps and I enjoy watching the Unsullied run into the same thing the book readers already know too well:
    No matter how many questions you have, when they get answered it only opens up more questions in a wonderfully frustrating cycle

  30. Dan Spicer
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    A couple folks wanted me to keep posting my non-bookie wife’s running commentary, so I’ll give it another shot. I think she was a bit quieter this week, but she definltey has some favorite characters.

    Trial by Combat; cringes and goes, “ewwwww,” as he slices his hand open for blood. Then, “Who wins? Who wins? LOOK OUT! God! Why don’t they just outside! uh oh, ooh, Gross!… Hey, he came back. How did he do that?” Me: “the other guy is a red priest and healed him.” Wife: “Oh, so he’s a red priest? Me: “Yes” Wife: “and the other lady is a red priest-TESS.” (spoken like Varys last week) Me: “uh huh.”

    Jon’s scene; “I don’t like that guy, does Jon kill him? She’s too skinny, that’s not right. Do they run away together?”

    Harrenhall; lots of, ” ewwww… god… come on… really…” as Jaime gets worked on. Then in the bath, “Really? Why is he such a pig? Is this part in the books?” and then a satisfied “hmmph” and chuckle when Brienne stands up.

    Dragonstone; “Who’s that? Who’s that? Is that Stannis’ wife?… God! Really! That’s disturbing.” Then, “awwwww she’s so cute. Whats wrong with her face? (me: she has a disease) Oh. She ‘s so adorable. Is she going to sneak Davos out of jail? Is she?

    Riverrun; “Who’s that? Who’s that? Is that the guy who’s always pissed off at Rob’s mom? … His dad cut someone’s head off in the first show, is he supposed to be like his dad now? God, that was stupid.”

    Olenna: “She cracks me up. I love her. She’s my favorite this season. She doesn’t die, does she?”

    When Loras asks, “How did you know?” My wife instantly says, “because I have Gaydar, duh!”

    Tywin family meeting; “Look at her (Cersei’s) face. She’s so funny. (yes, my wife really gets a kick out of TV Cersei) … It’s going to be him, isn’t? isn’t it? Ha Ha! That’s funny… (then) poor Cersei.

    During the closing credits; “is that his daughter singing? She’s so cute.”

  31. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    To everyone asking about Stannis’ daughter’s face: porridge plague.

  32. Rogue Agent
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    I am a newbie – a non-book reader. New viewers like me are getting confused, and while I think the mystery may be intentional, here are some tidbits from previous episodes and seasons, starting from when Roose Bolton is sent by Robb Stark to recapture Winterfell and bring Theon to him alive.

    Season 2 Episode 6 – Roose Bolton says “Let me send word to my bastard at the Dreadfort. He can raise a few 100 men and retake Winterfell before the new moon. My boy would be honoured to bring you Theon’s head.”

    Robb says “Theon, I want him brought to me alive.”

    Season 2 Episode 8 – Robb tells Roose Bolton “Any Ironborn who surrender will be allowed to return safely to their homes. Any Ironbord with the exception of Theon Greyjoy.”

    Season 2 Episode 10 – Theon is surrounded and his own Ironborn men knock him out and take him. The main Ironborn guy, Dagmer, says “Let’s go home”.

    Season 3 Episode 1 – This is a great visual clue. When Roose Bolton is talking with Karstark, Roose’s armour plating is shaped like an X. On that armour plating is a pin that is a flayed man, tied upside-down on an X. Even the Flayed Man is stretched like an X. This resembles the X that Theon is tied to, which is creepy.

    Season 3 Episode 2 – Theon is tied to an X-shaped thing and tortured with questions and stuff. The boy who’s sweeping tells him that he’ll free him.

    When Robb is arguing with Karstark, you can see the Bolton’s sigil (flag) with the Flayed Man, which resembles an X – just like that X-shaped thing that Theon’s tied to. When the Bolton men find Jaime and Brienne and ride towards them, you can see those sigils again.

    Season 3 Episode 3
    – The boy that freed Theon tells him that “we’re not in the Iron Islands”. When Theon is surrounded by his captors and then the boy kills them with his arrows, the main captor says to that boy “you little bastard”.

    After reading this, people who are unaware can use this to assist in uncovering the mystery and at the very least, clear any confusion they may have with Theon’s situation, and see if they turn out to be right when Theon’s mysterious captors are fully revealed in terms of dialogue and stuff.

  33. Dana
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear,

    What do you mean??

  34. Shock Me
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Dana,

    The disease Margery Tyrell made up to play a joke on Sansa an episode or two ago.

  35. Richard
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    Great post. Yeah I don’t understand why people are still confused on Theon’s situation, but then again, I’ve watched the series 3 times now, it helps to rewatch as new things crop up that were missed the first time or even the second time through.

    Rogue Agent:
    I am a newbie – a non-book reader. New viewers like me are getting confused, and while I think the mystery may be intentional, here are some tidbits from previous episodes and seasons, starting from when Roose Bolton is sent by Robb Stark to recapture Winterfell and bring Theon to him alive.

    Season 2 Episode 6 – Roose Bolton says “Let me send word to my bastard at the Dreadfort. He can raise a few 100 men and retake Winterfell before the new moon. My boy would be honoured to bring you Theon’s head.”

    Robb says “Theon, I want him brought to me alive.”

    Season 2 Episode 8 – Robb tells Roose Bolton “Any Ironborn who surrender will be allowed to return safely to their homes. Any Ironbord with the exception of Theon Greyjoy.”

    Season 2 Episode 10 – Theon is surrounded and his own Ironborn men knock him out and take him. The main Ironborn guy, Dagmer, says “Let’s go home”.

    Season 3 Episode 1 – This is a great visual clue. When Roose Bolton is talking with Karstark, Roose’s armour plating is shaped like an X. On that armour plating is a pin that is a flayed man, tied upside-down on an X. Even the Flayed Man is stretched like an X. This resembles the X that Theon is tied to, which is creepy.

    Season 3 Episode 2 – Theon is tied to an X-shaped thing and tortured with questions and stuff. The boy who’s sweeping tells him that he’ll free him.

    When Robb is arguing with Karstark, you can see the Bolton’s sigil (flag) with the Flayed Man, which resembles an X – just like that X-shaped thing that Theon’s tied to. When the Bolton men find Jaime and Brienne and ride towards them, you can see those sigils again.

    Season 3 Episode 3
    – The boy that freed Theon tells him that “we’re not in the Iron Islands”. When Theon is surrounded by his captors and then the boy kills them with his arrows, the main captor says to that boy “you little bastard”.

    After reading this, people who are unaware can use this to assist in uncovering the mystery and at the very least, clear any confusion they may have with Theon’s situation, and see if they turn out to be right when Theon’s mysterious captors are fully revealed in terms of dialogue and stuff.

  36. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Rogue Agent,

    While this is an accurately compiled list, it isn’t anything that’s gone unnoticed. I think I can speak for most of the newbies who’ve been in on this discussion that we aren’t confused at all, just curious about various details.

    I personally never trusted Theon’s men saying “let’s go home” to mean that they wouldn’t be making any stops along the way. Other people have questioned how much we should infer from the Bolton sigil. I don’t know if this is intentional or not, but you seem to be repeating the exact arguments made by the commenter Nagga’s Kin about how everyone should have noticed certain things and drawn the same conclusions about Theon’s situation, and if you don’t then you aren’t an attentive viewer.

    superkick,
    Someone else was already accused of the same thing. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt?

  37. Richard
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer,

    Love your posts, Dan, and your wife is probably a great person, but I would lose my sh*t if someone/anyone was talking throughout my first viewing of an episode (non-book reader, here). The show is just too precious to me, ha!

  38. Hexonx
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    “Game of Pride: Great scene between Barristen Selmy and Jorah Mormont exchanging old battle stories. But you already get a sense of tension here between them. I wonder if this will escalate and turn into a bigger issue, or if we are just seeing these two interact as a story line filler as Dany gets more accustomed to her new army. I like Barristen, but he better not mess with Jorah.”

    This isn’t really a spoiler because it was mentioned in the “previously on” but I will tag it anyway:

    Jorah was spying on Dany for the small council. The commander of the Kingsguard usually sit on the council so Jorah was trying to determine if Selmy knew anything about his spying. But it turns out Robert didn’t let Selmy sit on the council.

  39. Queen Arya
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Hounded:
    I Know of Fear,

    Stannis = 50′s Dad

    Cue the music and b/w intro to My Three Sons!

  40. Queen Arya
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear:
    To everyone asking about Stannis’ daughter’s face: porridge plague.

    OMG, hahaha! Nice reference.

  41. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    Dana,

    We’ll find out eventually. To me it looks like a burn, which seems likely if both her parents are converts of the Red Woman. But it might be a condition related to all of Stannis’ other children being stillborn.

  42. Rogue Agent
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    Richard:
    Great post. Yeah I don’t understand why people are still confusedon Theon’s situation, but then again, I’ve watched the series 3 times now, it helps to rewatch as new things crop up that were missed the first timeor even the second time through.

    Yeah, rewatching may help. To be honest, all that stuff flew over my head on my first few viewing and even then, some of them were pointed out by other viewers. All I did was collect them like this in order to make sense and surprisingly, it does! :p

    I Know of Fear:
    Rogue Agent,

    While this is an accurately compiled list, it isn’t anything that’s gone unnoticed. I think I can speak for most of the newbies who’ve been in on this discussion that we aren’t confused at all, just curious about various details.

    I personally never trusted Theon’s men saying “let’s go home” to mean that they wouldn’t be making any stops along the way. Other people have questioned how much we should infer from the Bolton sigil. I don’t know if this is intentional or not, but you seem to be repeating the exact arguments made by the commenter Nagga’s Kin about how everyone should have noticed certain things and drawn the same conclusions about Theon’s situation, and if you don’t then you aren’t an attentive viewer.

    I’m sorry, I thought there was confusion – but even then, hopefully new viewers may benefit even though the mystery may be dampened for them.

    Well, let me allay your assumption, then. Don’t worry, my intent is pure that I want to just inform viewers. Like I mentioned to Richard, many of things flew by my head. I have read through my post again, and I don’t see any argument from them at all. All i’m doing is trying to help. I never stated or inferred that viewers should have noticed these things and how they would be unattentive if they didn’t – these are tidbits – it’s easy for these tiny details to be missed and all I did was collect them into this post for the benefit of confused and interested viewers. Please don’t lump me with anyone else, I would appreciate if you didn’t :)

    Now that’s out of the way, I agree that there’s still a mystery and nothing is set in stone. I always thought Dagmer intended to give Theon to Boltons and be allowed to go back home. The Boltons had surrounded Winterfell – how would the Greyjoys escape? I like your interpretation of it, though – it’s just that I’m not sure if the Greyjoys know of any secret exits.

    Yeah, it depends if these visual touches of the Bolton’s sigil means anything, but I think that the resemblance is intentional. Not only these visual touches, but the previous bits of dialogue really match up and combine into a sensible analysis that maybe the Boltons are holding Theon. On an X where maybe a victim would be flayed, along the fact that one of the men called the boy “you little bastard” and we know that Roose has a bastard. However, like you said, this depends on the level of inferring and this just could be misdirection.

  43. Dana
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear,

    Thats what i was thinking too

  44. Targaryen
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    I always wondered why Jaime killed the Mad King. But that is a great story, and I think he was telling the truth, but he should have told more people, but I guess no one would believe him, especially Targaryen supporters.

    I thought the Tyrell’s were so smart and Loras just had to have pillow talk with an apparent spy. Didn’t they fill him in on all of the spies in Kings Landing?

    Robb Stark….I’ll admit, I was getting dull with his storyline, but now he has to go to the Frey guy and ask for “MORE” help. Catelyn Stark said he was a dangerous man and since he reneged on his oath to marry one of his daughters, if I were Rob, I would keep my new wife far away from him. But I don’t blame Karstark for doing what he did. Rob Stark did too dumb things buy not listening to his mom.

  45. Yellow Dog
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Dana,

    WiC deleted it.

  46. Freoduwebbe
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    I think its called Pay The Iron Price… ehich Karstark did

    Family, Duty, Hodor:
    Richard,

    I liked it. The music was the same played when Theon botched the beheading of Ser Rodrik Cassel. Great acting from Richard Madden.

  47. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    Rogue Agent,

    No need to apologize, I just think this is one dead horse that keeps getting beaten like there’s a White Walker in the saddle. It is a mystery that has a couple possible answers and a ton of clues, so we just have to wait.

  48. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    Targaryen,

    Does the Frey’s religion allow for polygamy? If not, Robb can just forget to mention he married someone else.

  49. Mas informacion
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    Very nice episode, but the fourth was awsome!

  50. Queen Arya
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    superkick:
    Good to see another newbie liking this episode… one of the Atlantic’s recappers said that he “can hardly imagine what it would be like to swallow all these developments in a single sitting as a non-reader of the books” but I’m new and enjoyed it plenty. http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/04/the-increasingly-egalitarian-nudity-on-em-game-of-thrones-em/275367/

    Ever single non-book reader review ive read today absolutely loved the episode.As ive said before the reviewers at the atlantic have their heads up their asses.Book reader reviews are so dull and boring.

    I disagree with your assessment about where The Atlantic reviewers “have their heads.” I thought this was a great duo review by a GoT reader (Ross) and a non-reader (Kornhaber).

    Ross identified a similar “discomfort” I felt: “A few key moments were given too little space to breathe,” while Kornhaber’s second paragraph succinctly described the energies of psychological conflict within the minds of the GoT characters, an insight that will change how I view the show a second time.

    Varying degrees of “like” is not “dislike.”

  51. Caulker
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    PEOPLE! WE HAVE JUST WITNESSED THE SINGLE. MOST. AWESOME HOUR OF TELEVISION. EVER.

    Thank you and good night.

  52. Shaggydog
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Lady Mychelle,

    That is really unneccessary. The unsullied don’t want to be spoiled on ANYTHING, and we, the sullied, should respect that. Can you please at least put spoiler tags around or better yet, delete it? Of course it is a spoiler, it tells them something that the show hasn’t yet told them.

    On another note, Oz, I love these unsullied recaps. It is wonderful to hear a newbie’s take on things, as we book-readers might have a somewhat clouded judgement. But I, too, found this episode fantastic! It’s great having people coming around on the Jaime storyline. He is indeed one of my favourites in the series, both books and show. NCW just nails it!

    EDIT: And thank you, it was deleted! :)

  53. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Queen Arya,

    I’m gonna have to agree with his assessment about The Atlantic writer. As an Unsullied, I didn’t feel this episode was rushed or too jam packed. Aside from Littlefinger’s spy being revealed so quickly I thought they let marinate pretty well. Especially the resurrection, which I mentioned early had a great impact with me still talking about the death and then interrupting me with a shock!

  54. Queen Arya
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Has anyone mentioned that NCW is on the cover of Men’s Health magazine? I wonder if he does an interview?

  55. Queen Arya
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    I would like to know from the Sullied if you were surprised or shocked by anything from this episode even having read the books. But no Spoilers!!

    The preserved fetus memorial was a shock. When the scene revealed the vessels I thought perhaps we were viewing a maester’s quarters, but no. Also Cersei’s betrothal to Loras?!?! Wow, a surprise ending.

  56. Anterograde
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    It’s no mystery that Dagmer and the other ironborn gave up Theon to save their skins (…ba dump bump). But what happened afterwards is completely up in the air…

    Who burned Winterfell?

    The ironborn just want to give up Theon, and make a hasty retreat home. Why would they take the time to kill everyone and burn everything down? More importantly, why would they risk pissing off the surrounding Northmen that have just agreed to let them all go?

    It’s not explicit, but it certainly seems that the ironborn aren’t responsible.

    In Dark Wings, Dark Words, Roose Bolton delivers a message received from his bastard son that says Winterfell was burned and abandoned before they even arrived. The letter also claimed that Theon had escaped and his whereabouts unknown.

    This means that either the bastard is lying, or it was some other unidentified group that had surrounded Winterfell and took Theon captive. The fact that Theon later ends up hanging on a wooden X would seem to suggest the former.

    [For all the conspiracy theorists out there: Theon was raised in the North and would very well know Bolton's sigil...so what if his captors just want him to THINK he's being held by the Boltons? Highly unlikely but fun to consider...]

    All evidence seems to suggest that Bolton’s bastard burned Winterfell, killed the inhabitants, captured Theon, and then lied about it to his father. … But why?

    Even worse, what if Roose is well aware of what his bastard is doing?

    Things are not looking good for the King in the North…he’s lost the Karstarks, the Bolton’s fealty is questionable, and now he has decided to go beg Walder Frey for more men….? (This is the same curmudgeon who wouldn’t even let Robb cross his bridge without the arrangement of 2 marriage pacts, one of which Robb has just broken. Yeah…I’m sure he’ll be GLAD to help out.)

    Sounds like Karstark was right…the Northern army needs to get back to doing what they do best…winning battles. Everytime they stop fighting the Lannisters, they start fighting themselves.

  57. Serjeant Grumbles
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    Stannis is relieved of his post as he actually showed he might have somewhat of a heart and a tiny bit of a conscious.

    Of course he has a conscious; he’s not a zombie.

  58. A wildling Bastard
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Dan Spicer,

    out of all these comments, i enjoyed yours the best .. you should do this after each episode .. non book readers reaction is priceless ^^

  59. Rafael
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    Littlefinger: “I can’t tell how touched I’m, that you care about my welfare”

    I almost laughed my head of :D . That was just so well acted by Gillen.

  60. Norseman
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    So now Robb Stark needs to ask Walder Frey for more men, which several of you already have pointed out will be quite a challenge. Any suggestions to how he will manage that?

    Robbs new marriage can’t have been that secret? After all, they are seen together (in ‘public’) alot of times.

    Could it be that he is willing to offer him Casterly Rock if he contribues in the battle?

  61. Rinso
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    I would like to know from the Sullied if you were surprised or shocked by anything from this episode even having read the books. But no Spoilers!!

    The dead-baby-jars in Stannis’ wife’s room were a total shock. I don’t believe it would be a spoiler to tell you that there is not even a hint of something like this in the books.

    Ah, also, Loras tumbling in bed with the squire-who-turned-out-to-be-Littlefinger’s-spy and foolishly confessing about the plot concerning Sansa. I won’t tell you how the Lannisters uncover the plot in the books, but it’s not like that. At all.

  62. Matt
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    Rogue Agent,

    You’d be surprised how distracted casual viewers can be… Checking their phones, talking to other people watching, losing interest.

    I think the show has made it blatantly clear who is holding Theon, they just haven’t held the camera on someone and have them explain it word-for-word, which, sadly is what a lot of casual viewers need done for them to understand.

  63. Claire
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    I’m not a book reader but I feel I can see where the Rob Stark story line is heading.
    I personally would be very surprised to see the season end without either him or Catlyn dead. I love both those characters (and actors) so much so I hope my gut feeling is wrong.
    Really loved this episode, great acting all round really.
    Trying to resist the urge to check if I’m right. . .

  64. Arya Dunyett
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Here’s a link to that Men’s Health cover with NCW and a tease about the interview:
    http://http://www.dailystab.com/game-of-thrones-nikolaj-coster-waldau-covers-mens-health-magazine-may-2013/

    Sooo much to love about this episode! More than enough backsides for 5 episodes. Cheeky.

    I’m in lurv with NCW. His acting deserves Emmys and SAG awards! And tha bath scene was so well written, thanks to BC!

    I loved sweetly tragic Shireen, found huddled alone in her dank dark bedchamber, singing her wierd little tune. And the regimental Lannister family gatherings complete with roaring lions.

    Olyvar Frey, Robb’s dutiful squire from the book, has been transformed into The Gay Squire Olyvar, avid and opportunistic Baelish spy. Nice recycling of characters.

    I’m so thrilled to have my lucid years correspond to the production of this fine work. Thank you D&D and company!

  65. JRR Tzolkin
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    Hounded:
    greg,

    Glad to see some non-book readers are coming round to Jaime. Now you see why us book readers have such a soft spot for him!

    Not all book readers.

    Nothing this twisted, sister-fucking, child-murdering oathbreaker could do can ever get me to like him in the very least, let alone have a soft spot for him. In fact, I was so looking forward to hearing Jaime scream onscreen that when it finally happened, the sound was pure music to my ears (and no, that wasn’t that “infamous” punk version of The Bear and the Maiden Fair during the credits).

  66. 3eyes
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    So now we know what was in at least one of those letters Tywin was writing. Looks like he may have contacted Lord Tyrell (AKA The Oaf) behind the QoT’s back. I sense a confrontation between the irresistible force and the immovable object on the horizon. Will the Lannister children finally get a backbone and defy their father? The fanaticism of the Red God priests and converts makes more sense now, and I can see Arya becoming a convert. But at what cost? And no more ArGen? *sad face* Shocked by the pickled fetuses, expecting things to get nastier at Dragonstone when the priestess returns. Shocked by the death of the two boys. BTW Oz, I’m a middle aged woman, and I thought “Red Snatch” was quite apt and very funny. Go figure.

  67. Ghost
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:

    I would like to know from the Sullied if you were surprised or shocked by anything from this episode even having read the books. But no Spoilers!!

    Selyse’s dead babies were a little shocking and very weird.

  68. 3eyes
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    PS – BC rules!

  69. jennyofoldstones
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    I was shocked by Selyse seeming to be so crazy with the fetuses in the jars. I seriously don’t remember that at all in the books. And I don’t think it is a spoiler to say that Shireen’s facial affliction is not a random thing and could possibly be important down the road, although I don’t know that it is, I’m just guessing.

  70. Kroy
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    Barristan or Barristen? I’m getting confused…

  71. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    3eyes,

    Thank you! Ozzette found it amusing also. But to each his or her own… My purpose here is not to offend, although it is an impossible feat especially on the anonymous Internet. But a man can do his best.

    Barristan or Barristen…. I probably misspelled it. I am a student of the screen and not the written, so I likely screwed up. Apologies.

  72. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    Queen Arya,

    My husband bought it on a business trip. He didn’t even realize it was NC-W until he read the article. He too used to Jaime looking like a ragamuffin.

  73. Mike Chair
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    Dovaogēdys! Some of you are starting to get it.

    Oz of Thrones: I would like to know from the Sullied if you were surprised or shocked by anything from this episode even having read the books. But no Spoilers!!

    Jar fetuses. Loras’ sparring partner and his faux gaydar.

    Dan Spicer: A couple folks wanted me to keep posting my non-bookie wife’s running commentary …

    Jon’s scene; “She’s too skinny, that’s not right.” …
    During the closing credits; “is that his daughter singing? She’s so cute.”

    Thanks.

    “too skinny” is too funny.

    OMGs, was that Kerry Ingram singing over the credits?

  74. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    What surprised this Sullied:

    * Jars of Fetus. Whaaaaaat the hellllllll. Just, NO.

    *Shireen’s face wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be.

    * How powerful Jaime’s monologue was. I was not nearly as moved reading it as I was watching it, which is not usually how it goes.

    *Marrying Cersei to Loras. I literally yelled “gotchya, bitch!” at the TV when Tywin said that.

  75. Rogue Agent
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear:
    Rogue Agent,

    No need to apologize, I just think this is one dead horse that keeps getting beaten like there’s a White Walker in the saddle. It is a mystery that has a couple possible answers and a ton of clues, so we just have to wait.

    Yeah. I think I was surprised at first because I hardly post here but I get what you mean now. We just have to wait, I guess. Now, once it’s revealed, I hope all these visual clues are revisited since it enhances this show – if all these things turn out to be true, that is.

    Matt:
    Rogue Agent,

    You’d be surprised how distracted casual viewers can be… Checking their phones, talking to other people watching, losing interest.

    I think the show has made it blatantly clear who is holding Theon, they just haven’t held the camera on someone and have them explain it word-for-word, which, sadly is what a lot of casual viewers need done for them to understand.

    Yeah I see what you mean. I’m kind of like that too – I get distracted a lot, even though I don’t lose interest. But something always comes up. So I think that’s why many of these details fly by. My attention span is kinda weak nowadays, which is one of the reasons I don’t read novels haha.

  76. Ancalagon
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    JRR Tzolkin: Not all book readers.

    Nothing this twisted, sister-fucking, child-murdering oathbreaker could do can ever get me to like him in the very least, let alone have a soft spot for him. In fact, I was so looking forward to hearing Jaime scream onscreen that when it finally happened, the sound was pure music to my ears (and no, that wasn’t that “infamous” punk version of The Bear and the Maiden Fair during the credits).

    Name me one child Jaime murdered. Bran is far from dead.
    Regarding oath breaking: after hearing the story in the tub: was it really that bad that he broke his oath (what about his oath as a knight to defend the innocent and weak?)
    IMHO, saying that hearing someone scream in agony is music in your ears is actually more twisted than anything Jaime did.

  77. I Know of Fear
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    Ancalagon,

    Fine, “failed” child murderer.

  78. valyrian
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    Barristan. Oz, what shocked me? Cersei engaged to Loras. Totally did not see that coming. Oh and the dead babies, of course.

  79. Patchy Face
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    Sullied here and shocked by babies in jars! Yi! Last time we had a wizard in a box – what’s next?

  80. Gatorfisch
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

    This is NOT a spoiler: In regards to the song at the end of the show, that Shireen was singing, that was a nod to book readers. An omitted character (a “fool” named Patchface), would go around saying it in the books, so they gave us a little nod and wink.

  81. The Instrumentalist
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

    Queen Arya,

    Read a bit of it at my store on the job tehe. Worth it just for the pictures, drool…

  82. Julie
    Posted April 29, 2013 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    For me the part with Stannis just reminded me of when Renly said ‘No one likes Stannis’. The wife is clearly nuts and probably needs to be locked up for everyone’s safety but that poor daughter of his doesn’t deserve to be hidden away in a darkness like that. What a jerk.

  83. Zack
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    I hope you’re back for the subsequent seasons. I thoroughly enjoy your recaps :)

  84. Deez
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    Jaime is still a total D bag in my eyes, not sure why everyone is all over his jock just cuz he hits some hard times. He’s arrogant, pretty sick for bangin his sister (which for some reason everyone is so quick to overlook), and the dude threw an innocent kid from a tower. He deserves everything he’s gettin IMO. And screw giving him props for killing the king and saving people, it’s what any decent person should do.

  85. Deez
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 12:41 am | Permalink

    Oh, and am I the only one that finds it absolutely hilarious that Sansa might have to marry Tyrion, I can’t stand her character and it’s such sweet irony that she would have to marry the complete opposite or what she ideally wanted. Even though Tyrion is the only decent Lannister it is still awesome.

  86. argilac's antler
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 12:55 am | Permalink

    I think Jaime’s bath scene also gave some insight as to why he felt the need to “bully” the ignorant youth of Jon Snow about joining the Night’s Watch way back in season 1. I think he saw a bit of himself in Snow, thinking he’s off to join some honorable brotherhood when the reality is it’s far from it. Jaime probably thought the same when he joined the Kingsguard (he was quite young himself at the time, right?) and it turned out he became a mere “glorified bodyguard” (as his father put it) for a mad-man who did horrible things.

    Granted, Mormont was no Mad King but the NW wasn’t what Jon thought it would be, just as being a member of the Kingsguard probably wasn’t what Jaime thought it would be.

    Jaime to Jon: “I’m sure it will be thrilling to serve in such an elite force. And if not, it’s only for life.”

    We know why Jon joined the NW. He was a bastard and felt he didn’t belong anywhere. We still don’t know why or how Jaime joined the KG but I have a feeling, like Jon naivety played a part.

  87. argilac's antler
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 1:10 am | Permalink

    argilac’s antler,

    Also forgot to point out, both Jaime and Jon are now oathbreakers.

  88. grumpycetacean
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 3:04 am | Permalink

    Karstark, child killer he may be, was right about Robb I think. Robb shouldn’t have broken his word to Frey. How could Karstark trust Robb’s word that vengeance would be his if Robb’s word doesn’t mean much. Karstark is the reason anyone called Robb King in the first place iirc. Robb disappointingly took the Joff route: ‘as long as I am king treason shall never go unpunished’. Now he wants to take the shreds of his army to fight the Mountain holed up at Casterly Rock? He’s trippin.

    The Stannis bit surprised me! I believe I was kvetching about his cheating ways on the last noob thread. And the jars of baby were a nice touch imo, brightened up the room really.

    What is Tywin doing to Tyrion? He is my favorite, and I can’t imagine he is going to be happy for awhile. Forced to marry Sansa, knowing that he would be seen as a punishment to her, and meanwhile his wife in all but legality serves as Sansa’s handmaiden and loves her fiercely. I do kind of wish Tyrion and Shea would sail off to some place warm and chuck the whole lot of plotting/scheming vipers in King’s Landing.

    Astute as ever Oz, definitely have to agree this was the most asstastic ep ever.

  89. Jon Sand
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 3:17 am | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,
    From a book reader, I was surprised that Karstarks men was half of Robbs forces. In the book his men is only a small portion of Robbs army (2-3000?).

    The beheading was already in book 2. Karstark must be the one GRRM referred to, when he said “D&D even have people running around alive and well in the Show, who are long dead in the books. So, I am happy he finally lost his head :)

    Oh yea, and the fetus stuff. Not in the books….

  90. Adria
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 3:34 am | Permalink

    Deez:
    Jaime is still a total D bag in my eyes, not sure why everyone is all over his jock just cuz he hits some hard times. He’s arrogant, pretty sick for bangin his sister (which for some reason everyone is so quick to overlook), and the dude threw an innocent kid from a tower. He deserves everything he’s gettin IMO. And screw giving him props for killing the king and saving people, it’s what any decent person should do.

    I never saw Jamie’s relationship with Cersei as being sick. A screwed up and foolish choice, yes, but it was mutual. He didn’t rape her or otherwise force her into an incestuous relationship. And in a naive and blind way he does love Cersei, though her feelings don’t seem to be as true. Guess I just always saw Jamie’s feelings for Cersei to be a bit pitiable, not despicable. And yes, the Bran thing was a despicable act. But I don’t see Jaime as a calculating murderer. He reacted in the moment ina way that he thought would save his family. A really bad decision, but he didn’t sit around and plan how to murder children like Theon’s friend Dagmer. I think Jaime has a lot to atone for, but what I like about his story is that he is one of the few characters that starts to realize that.

  91. Norseman
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 5:18 am | Permalink

    argilac’s antler,

    Why Jamie joined the KG is explained in this “History and Lore” video. I doubt that you can call this a spoiler, as it was bonus material for season two if I’m not mistaken(?) (I’m a non-book reader myself, and didn’t look at it like that at least).

    But to be sure, I won’t say anything here, you choose if you want to see or not :)

    link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOe-BtP-eSU

  92. Dany's One-Eyed Dragon
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    Dana,

    I’m thinking they are dragon scales or something on her face. Remember when the witch told Dany her baby was grotesque with scales. The miscarriages in jars jogged that back to memory. Since we don’t know who stannis’s wife is, maybe she has some targarean bloodlines and the daughter has been born with some dragon manifestations. She seem intrigued about the targarean dynasty and they are living in dragonstone castle. Or she could have been burned by wildfire. From Jamie’s account that stuff was lying around like bottled milk back in the day.

  93. argilac's antler
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    Norseman,

    I browse TWoP forums and I usually stick to their definition of spoiler (that is, anything not shown not between the opening credits and closing credits counts as a spoiler). Not sure if Oz follows the same policy so I was playing it carefully.

    The extras on the BR are beautifully made but I personally think it’s essential to the viewing experience to let the creators let the story unfold as they wish to tell it, rather than resorting to an outside source to fill in the blanks (NBC’s Heroes went overboard with their online comics wrapping up plot-threads and soured me on the whole thing). Take Stannis’ daughter for instance. Her face is mysteriously disfigured and immediately book-readers want to tell Oz why. Let the show do it. If everything is explained upon its introduction, there’s no longer a sense of mystery and takes away from the speculation fans like to do between episodes (or sometimes even seasons).

    Just my 2 cents.

  94. Kael of the Lake
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    I belong to the Sullied and what surprised me most was the thing that Jon Sand mentions. Every major lord had something between 20 to 40 bannermen and if one of them had enough men to be considered as half of the Northmen force then the other half probably belonged to the major lord himself otherwise the power would be unbalanced. So where are the rest lord’s soldiers?
    I guess they’re trying to put Robb in a difficult position so as to justify his decisions further on and continue the story (or attempt a shortcut) – understandable.

    The existence of pickled babies probably paint ms Baratheon’s mental condition flavored with some religious fanaticism. Given that, Stannis could be running away already but he isn’t. That says something about TV-Stannis character/beliefs.

    Regarding the beheading, I disagree with most of you saying that it was a bad decision. If I was in Robb shoes I would have given Karstark to my direwolf with an order to make it last a couple of days. Slaughtering defenseless children, medieval times or not, during a war or not, is a bloody heinous crime. He didn’t deserve the honor to be executed quickly by his lord’s hand. The same applies for Robert’s bastards or the miller’s boys of course, but in that case the boys had nowhere to run.
    So, go Robb!

  95. Throner69
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    Hey Oz I am just curious, after you post your unsullied recap do you wait a while before reading the comments so that WiC can remove spoilery ones and save you from reading a douchey spoiler? I’m just curious as it must be hard to remain unsullied when some people don’t understand that even hinting at things that have not happened on screen yet are in fact spoilers.

  96. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Zack:
    I hope you’re back for the subsequent seasons. I thoroughly enjoy your recaps :)

    Thank you Zack. I hope most readers here feel the same, and I definitely hope to be returning, as well as offering up some fun posts during the “off-season.” A man appreciates any and all feedback.

  97. Dana
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Dany’s One-Eyed Dragon,

    Thats a very good theory, I like the relation. Thank you for that!

  98. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Throner69:
    Oz of Thrones,

    Hey Oz I am just curious, after you post your unsullied recap do you wait a while before reading the comments so that WiC can remove spoilery ones and save you from reading a douchey spoiler? I’m just curious as it must be hard to remain unsullied when some people don’t understand that even hinting at things that have not happened on screen yet are in fact spoilers.

    Throner69,
    Yes, I try to give it a little time before jumping into the comments. It is a balancing act as I try to be as interactive as possible, without being subjected to any comments that could affect my viewing pleasure. However, as people are commenting off and on all day, I am always in a little danger. But most commenters are very courteous, and thus far, I have only run into one or two issues of spoilery that gave something away. Luckily, they were minor.

    Thanks for shooting me a question!

  99. Queen Arya
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    argilac’s antler:
    argilac’s antler,

    Also forgot to point out, both Jaime and Jon are now oathbreakers.

    So is Sam by being enthralled with Gilly and now, taking off with her. I was surprised his Crow bros didn’t warn him about where his thoughts were going early in the show at Craster’s, you know, something along the lines of, “Yar took an oath, Sam. Yar don’ belong thinkin’ ’bout tha’ girl. Craster will kill ya besides…Get on with yar chores.” Yar.

  100. Queen Arya
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    The Instrumentalist:
    Queen Arya,

    Read a bit of it at my store on the job tehe. Worth it just for the pictures, drool…

    Lucky, lucky you…sigh. What’s his interview about, getting and staying in shape for the show?

  101. Queen Arya
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    Arya Dunyett,

    Broken link…was…so…close…

  102. Deez
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    Adria,

    Banging your twin sister isn’t sick? You must be from Alabama :)
    Just kidding, I don’t know pretty gross if you ask me. Pretty sure me or anyone else I know would be completely disowned for doing something like that. And throwing an innocent kid from a window regardless of the circumstances is unforgivable IMO. Just because you realize your a total D bag doesn’t change the fact you are, I just can’t stand his whole smug demeanor.

  103. Streetad
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    I Know of Fear,

    I think a few people have got the wrong end of the stick with that scene. When Gendry says ‘You wouldn’t be my family, you’d be m’lady’ he is pointing out the social gulf between the two of them. Arya hasn’t really thought things through properly; once they get to Riverrun and she gets her real family back she is hardly going to be allowed to spend her time hanging around with some random blacksmith. Gendry wants to stay with the Brotherhood where he is valued.

  104. Ancalagon
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    Jon Sand:
    Oz of Thrones,
    The beheading was already in book 2. Karstark must be the one GRRM referred to, when he said “D&D even have people running around alive and well in the Show, who are long dead in the books. So, I am happy he finally lost his head :)

    Wrong. Karstark was beheaded in Chapter 20 of A Storm of Swords, the third book. The timeframe in the series fits quite well into the timeframe of the book. In the second book Robb was hardly directly seen.

  105. JRR Tzolkin
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    Ancalagon: Name me one child Jaime murdered. Bran is far from dead.
    Regarding oath breaking: after hearing the story in the tub: was it really that bad that he broke his oath (what about his oath as a knight to defend the innocent and weak?)
    IMHO, saying that hearing someone scream in agony is music in your ears is actually more twisted than anything Jaime did.

    lol yeah, I’m sure being glad to see a character perceived as a sick, perverted villain (at least till season/book 3) pay some of his dues is more twisted than fucking your own sister and vowing to kill the whole world to protect that very “healthy” kind of love.

    All I was saying is that not all of us book readers have a soft spot for the Kingslayer. I am a book reader, I have disliked the character ever since he pushed Bran out the window and I still dislike him greatly even after knowing his back story. Does that mean he doesn’t have any qualities to speak of? Of course not. But in my book, his qualities are simply not enough to justify all that he’s done.

  106. lmm
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    Rogue Agent,

    Promote this observant Unsullied. Grey Worm will be proud.

  107. EASY
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    Hexonx,

    After rewatching that episode of GO, Selmy was indeed in the council so he is likely playing Jorah or he was asleep during the council meetings. (he is an old man)

  108. Arya4 thhewin
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    How was gendry flirting with Arya? He said ‘You wouldn’t be my family, you’d be M’ilady’ Meaning the class divide that would always be present should he go with her to her family. She is a lady, he is a commoner. He didn’t mean ‘You’ll be my girl’
    I Know of Fear,

  109. Dogmayor
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    EASY,

    He absolutely was not on the small council, I suggest you rewatch the first season.

  110. Shan
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Deez:
    Adria,

    Banging your twin sister isn’t sick? You must be from Alabama :)
    Just kidding, I don’t know pretty gross if you ask me. Pretty sure me or anyone else I know would be completely disowned for doing something like that. And throwing an innocent kid from a window regardless of the circumstances is unforgivable IMO. Just because you realize your a total D bag doesn’t change the fact you are, I just can’t stand his whole smug demeanor.

    Just pointing out that, you know, “pretty gross” is not the same thing as “evil.” “Being smug,” again, is not the same thing as “evil.”

    Trying to kill Bran was evil. See the difference?

  111. Marco
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    I think Theon music in Robb’s scene is there to remind us Rodrick’s last words to Theon: «Now you are truly lost».

  112. Deez
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    Shan: Just pointing out that, you know, “pretty gross” is not the same thing as “evil.” “Being smug,” again, is not the same thing as “evil.”

    Trying to kill Bran was evil. See the difference?

    I never used the word evil, I said he’s a total D bag and a smug pric, I don’t like him and don’t understand why just because karma finally catches up with him everyone likes him now…just don’t get it.

  113. Shan
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    Deez,

    It seemed like you were implying he was evil when you said that he “deserved everything that he got.” It seems like bad karma is something you get for doing things that are actually bad, not things that other people just find gross (incest between two consenting adults) or annoying (being cocky and smug).

    You don’t like him, and I’m fine with that — he’s done plenty of things that are actually bad, not just gross or annoying. But it creeps me out to hear you say that people deserve to have bad things happen to them because of who they decide to have sex with or because their personality is annoying. It creeps me out in real life, and it creeps me out in fiction.

  114. Shan
    Posted April 30, 2013 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    Deez,

    Case in point: you also seem to be pretty eager to see bad things happen to Sansa, who has done absolutely nothing wrong to anyone since, like, Episode 2 of Season 1. Just because you find her personality annoying, you seem thrilled at the idea that she’s going to be humiliated in front of everyone, have all of her hope taken away, and then be repeatedly raped. (Unless you have a very radical way of interpreting “you will wed her, bed her, and put a child in her.”) That’s the part of the attitude that creeps me out, not the part where you don’t like Jaime for throwing Bran out a window.

  115. Vatec
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 1:12 am | Permalink

    Shan,

    Sansa is the one who got her father killed: she ran to Queen Cersei begging to be allowed to stay in King’s Landing instead of going back north with her father. Further back, she lied about the whole fight between Arya and Joffrey, which got Micah (and her own dire wolf, Lady) killed.

    Sansa has plenty to answer beyond just being annoying….

  116. Dany's One-Eyed Dragon
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 1:46 am | Permalink

    JRR Tzolkin,

    Actually, I think Jamie’s most evil act was when he brutally beat his cousin to death in the jail cell. It had the most sinester and premeditated feel of all his wrong deeds. Pushing Bran out the window was more reactionary and if he did not, it would have been almost certain death for him and Ceirci. As a valuable captive, he was not in any imminent danger when he murdered his cousin, and of course Karstark’s son, which I am pretty sure was a suicide attempt by Jamie withou actually having to the deed himself. (BTW – I make no apologies for butchering names as I’d rather grossly misspell than google search and end up on a site with even a mild spoiler in the preview pane.)

    That said, I don’t find myself polarized one way or another in regards to hating or feeling sorry for him, just enjoy the way his character in developing in the story. He recognizes the hypocrisy and assured conflict that exists in the world they live in. He tries and tries to act like he does not care what other people think of him, but he clearly does. He tries to make his own code to live by as a means of self-serving righteousness (ala many Hemmingway characters), but wrestles with complete apathy and seems to recognize he is just as full of it as everyone else despite his attempts to reconcile his acts. I wonder how he would react in plain site of a miricle – like jora Mormont “blood of my blood . . . I will remember that day after I have forgotten my mother’s face” or the Hound “Huh?. . . Now give me my gold back” (after seeing dardarrien arise from the dead).

  117. ohime
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 4:04 am | Permalink

    Shan,

    Robb and Cat and most of the North and Riverlands are fighting and dying in part to help free Sansa and she is happily agreeing to marry into the family that is joining forces with the Lannisters who are fighting her family and want them dead; thus, effectively making all their efforts and losses for nothing. No, no, Sansa should be smarter by now and take her chances with LF and just leave. Even if he doesn’t deliver her to her family, she would be out of the Lannister/Tyrell ‘hostage’ situation and make things a little easier for her brother and mother. Her decision makes her seem as if she doesn’t care at all about her family, or at the very least, again not thinking about the consequences of her decision/actions – she only thinks about herself, and never the bigger picture – should be more aware by now.

  118. Deez
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 4:20 am | Permalink

    Shan

    First off, I’m not sitting there cheering when bad things happy to Jaime, I just don’t like him and don’t understand why just because a few bad things happen to him all of the sudden everyone’s on his jock now. At the same time I don’t feel bad for him at all, and do think he deserves what he’s gotten. As for Sansa your going a little overboard, (saying that I want her repeatedly raped? FFS) Tyrion is actually one of the few good people on this show, so she could do worse. I just think it’s super ironic and funny.

    Oh and it goes beyond her being annoying, she’s self absorbed and puts herself before her family. Like when she lied to protect Joff. And not leaving with the Hound was super dumb. Not to mention she treated the lady that looked after her like crap, she just all around sucks.

  119. Pyat Dean Pelton
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 4:27 am | Permalink

    Thanks for all the good reads, everyone. As a Sullied book reader, i like to read other people’s theories about various things that i know the answer to already.

  120. Deez
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 4:32 am | Permalink

    The whole conversation between Jeroh and Selmy made me think that Dany is gonna find out about Jeroh betraying her at some point. He should come clean , if he doesn’t I see something bad happening to him.

  121. argilac's antler
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 4:51 am | Permalink

    Vatec:
    Shan,

    Sansa is the one who got her father killed: she ran to Queen Cersei begging to be allowed to stay in King’s Landing instead of going back north with her father. Further back, she lied about the whole fight between Arya and Joffrey, which got Micah (and her own dire wolf, Lady) killed.

    Sansa has plenty to answer beyond just being annoying….

    Not sure if you know what thread you’re posting in, but Sansa running to Cersei to tattle on Ned’s plans to move back North happened only in the books. The HBO show has either omitted that detail or is waiting to reveal it at a later time.

  122. telobsidion
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    I don’t know that redemption is possible for Jaime. Even so, it’s nice to see his development into something more complicated than a cartoon villain evilly twirling his mustache.

  123. zzz
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    It was sad when arya asked thoros if he could bring soemone back who lost a head.

  124. Theon Rules!
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but how stupid is Robb to think that Walder Frey is going to give him any assistance after he broke his oath to him? It seems like Robb’s world is just quickly unraveling around him.

  125. Dana
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    zzz,

    I agree
    Arya’s scenes are barely discussed here and I think her request to bring back a head… and her second where she tells beric that she would trade life to bring one back… but then continues that by saying “your life” to beric.
    I love Arya

  126. Ancalagon
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    Deez,

    The reason why I like Jaime is not because a few bad things happened to him, I like him because he’s not the asshole he seemed to be at the beginning and because he wants to be a better man than the people see him. He has potential to redeem himself unlike many other characters who did bad things – and I agree with Shan, I don’t think he did that many really bad things to consider him a bad person. And what is the thing about that big focus on his incest? That concerns him and his sister, no one else. Actually I think that shows more good things in him than bad, because he really loves her and cares for her and is faithful and loyal. If it wasn’t his sister, there would be no discussion that this character trait was totally positive.

  127. Dany's One-Eyed Dragon
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Another curious thing about this episode related to the whole Winterfell/Theon storyline… Does anyone know how and/or why Tywin Lannister received word that Bran and Rikon were burned dead in Winterfell, but Robb had received word that Winterfell was burned and Bran and Rikon were missing?

    I don’t understand how, why, and for what purpose would there be different accounts of the Stark boys. Thanks to anyone who can clear that up!

  128. Oz of Thrones
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Dany’s One-Eyed Dragon,

    My understanding is that the Stark boys are assumed dead due to what Theon did with the two boys he killed and the fact that Winterfell was left to burn. Everyone including Cat thinks they are dead. Robb wants to believe they are alive, but he really doesn’t know for sure.

  129. Deez
    Posted May 1, 2013 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

    Theon Rules!:
    Surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but how stupid is Robb to think that Walder Frey is going to give him any assistance after he broke his oath to him? It seems like Robb’s world is just quickly unraveling around him.

    I 100% agree, he’s made a series of dumb decisions and going to ask Frey for more help will top them all. His mom warned him Walder is a dangerous man to cross, I think if he goes either him Talisa or both of them will die or have something terrible happen to them.

  130. Grijnwaald
    Posted May 2, 2013 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    Seven Hells, I am so far behind! I just watched it and here’s my brief thoughts:
    - Poor Gendrya shippers but lol
    - Arya’s really having a bad time :’( it’s been too long since we’ve seen a happy Arya……or a happpy anyone for that matter.
    - I’m glad the Hound got away
    - What the fuck Mrs Stannis!
    - Poor Captain Beard (Davos)
    - Lol to Cersei
    - WTF Tywin, you can’t marry Sansa and Tyrion? I feel oddly very protective over the Stark kids

  131. Dany's One-Eyed Dragon
    Posted May 3, 2013 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    Thanks Oz. Seems like there is a lot of missing information with regard to the Winterfell storyline since the scene when Theon got knocked out, so I am stretching for clues a bit too much.

  1. [...] comments will contain spoilers. If you haven’t read ASoS yet, you can discuss this episode in our non-book reader recap. [...]


  • Recent Comments

  • Archives

    • 2014 (947)
    • 2013 (679)
    • 2012 (550)
    • 2011 (512)
    • 2010 (309)
    • 2009 (174)
    • 2008 (47)
  •