Synopses for the final two episodes of season 3
By Winter Is Coming on in News.

Cersei on bed

SpoilerTV has leaked the synopses of the final two episodes of season 3. As usual, you can expect some minor spoilers in these synopses, so we’ve hidden them after the break.

Episode 3.09 – The Rains of Castamere
Robb presents himself to Walder Frey, and Edmure meets his bride. Jon faces his harshest test yet. Bran discovers a new gift. Daario and Jorah debate how to take Yunkai. House Frey joins with House Tully. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by David Nutter.)

Episode 3.10 – Mhysa
Joffrey challenges Tywin. Bran tells a ghost story. In Dragonstone, mercy comes from strange quarters. Dany waits to see if she is a conqueror or a liberator. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by David Nutter.)

Winter Is Coming: It all sounds great. I think I can identify what event each of these sentences refers to; the only one I’m not sure about is “In Dragonstone, mercy comes from strange quarters”. Any idea what that one is about?


335 Comments

  1. NDC
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    HODOR!!!

  2. GeekFurious
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    Interesting. So 3.09 will not be one story like Blackwater.

  3. Javi Marcos
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    Ghost story-Rat Cook?
    Bran new gift- warging Hodor?

    Dragonstone: Davos as new Hand thanks to Mel support.

  4. Donnie S.
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    M and D, perhaps?

  5. Michel
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Surprised that Dany is in episode 9. I was guessing that only the Starks and Jon would appear

  6. Anch0r
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    Who-dor?

  7. dmf
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    Definitely Melisandre helping Davos’ case with Stannis

  8. Alice
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    “Bran tells a ghost story”

    Could it be a flashback ? Or maybe he witnesses Beric bringing Catelyn back to life ?

    ETA : By the way, we can finally put all this PW in episode 30 sillyness in the garbage.

  9. Michel
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    What is Jon harshest test? Can’t remember from the books now, probably something related to Queenscrown?

  10. Kevin
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    I assume Davis gets released, is Mel the strange quarters?

    Bran – probably when he controls hodor in the tower

  11. Alice
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Michel,

    The timing seems off, but I wonder if it refers to Ygritte’s death .

  12. Winter Is Coming
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    Javi Marcos:
    Ghost story-Rat Cook?
    Bran new gift- warging Hodor?

    Dragonstone: Davos as new Hand thanks to Mel support.

    The Night’s King seems more likely. It is a story that has more importance to the overall lore, there are theories that we may see the Night’s King appear in the story at some point, (or maybe we’ve met him already: some fans think that Coldhands is the Night’s King) and, with the whole sacrificing babies to the Others thing, it also ties into what was going on with Craster.

    ETA: The Night’s King story was included in the S2 Blu-ray. More proof that it may be important to the story down the line?

  13. Michel
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    Alice,

    Me too. But I guess Battle at Black Castle and RW at the same episode is too much.

  14. The Flayed Man
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Now, I’m saying this once:

    Can we finally put to rest the constant claiming that the PW will be this season?

  15. Freyja
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    If they’re keeping Jon’s “harshest test” for the ninth episode does that mean that the battle of Castle Black will be in season 4?

  16. A Secret Baratheon
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    Thank God! This should be the last of the PW speculation.

  17. Watson
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    The test is probably the old man that Jon is ordered to kill.

  18. Yago
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    Freyja,

    No. We know there’s a scene where Mance sees Tormund (and probably some others) coming back. Either there is no battle at Castle Black (that would kind of suck), or it’s in ep 9 or 10.

  19. Walter Harrow
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    I hope that there are no Kings Landing scenes in episode 9. I love all of the characters in Kings Landing (and the actors) but think that episode 9 would be better without Tyrion, Cersei and the Tyrells. I wasnt even expecting Dany to be in that episode so it would definitely be too much to feature KL. The wedding needs to be given a fair amount of time, Arya needs to show up (i would be very annoyed if they decided not to have her at the twins) and Dany/Jon/Bran are all also going to appear so i cant see how they would fit scenes from KL in to the episode.
    (Im only wondering about this because it seems that they are trying to get Tyrion/Peter Dinklage into every episode even when he is not needed)

  20. Erik
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    couldn’t the mercey from strange quarters be when Stannis is about to execute Davos but then he reads the letter? I don’t think they’ll keep Davos in jail all season, and the episode 8 synopsis says that he “demands proof” which I don’t think he’d be doing from a cell.

  21. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Well, well that bet I made about something not occurring this year….I may have won that bet!

    Fringe season 5 is out next week so that might fit the bill.

  22. Michel
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    I’m wondering now. I told that Battle at Black Castle and RW at the same episode is too much, but I guess it would be nice if the Battle happens in the end of the episode (lasting 20 minutes) and them the non readers are thinking that it’s is the big event from the episode 9 (ned death, blackwater) and them when it’s only lasting 5 minutes, change to the RW

  23. Jason
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Wait, isn’t Rains a Lannister song? Why isn’t there any Lannister in the synopsis!

  24. sunspear
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    Walter Harrow,

    I disagree. I think they need at least one scene centered on the Lannisters so the title doesn’t give away what’s going to happen.

    Winter Is Coming,

    Yeah, I agree. If they want to tell the Rat Cook story, they should do it before the Red Wedding.

    I hope they include the mention that Arya is still supposed to marry a Frey. That’s the best misdirect for the climax they could hope for. I’m also expecting the scenes of Arya and the Hound fighting outside the Twins and GreyRobb to be in episode 10, not 9.

  25. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    “Bran discovers a new gift”? + “Jon faces his harshest test”? = Queenscrown. And by gift they probably mean The Gift. Looks like will have a couple of scenes establishing the Edmure Tully/Roslyn Frey pairing intercut with Dany then Jon and Bran at Queenscrown and most likely Arya and the Hound and then…”boom doom boom doom”
    “Jaime Lannister sends his regards”
    Instead of a “Blackwater” we are getting a “Baelor”.

  26. Michel
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    Is that a scene from the books? “Joffrey challenges Tywin.”

  27. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    Yago:
    Freyja,

    No. We know there’s a scene where Mance sees Tormund (and probably some others) coming back. Either there is no battle at Castle Black (that would kind of suck), or it’s in ep 9 or 10.

    I recall Hinds saying that… but, knowing the show, I get the vague suspicion that they’ll merge the battle at Castle Black with the assault on the Wall, just to spin out Ygritte longer. So we may have Jon running off, and the Wildlings bypassing Castle Black altogether on their return voyage. I guess we’ll see…

  28. Kyrion
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Battle of the wall will be season 4 episode 9

    Looks like the skirmish will be early next season aswell, so Ygritte lives for one more season

  29. Walter Harrow
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    sunspear,

    I think it would be better to have Arya/Hound in episode 9. It would be more impactful to have her try to get to her mother in the same episode as their deaths instead of waiting a week to show Arya. It would also be the best possible cliffhanger in my opinion. Ending with Cat/Robb dying would be good but i think it would be better and more horrific for non readers if they show Arya getting struck by the Hound and making it look like she has been killed aswell

  30. sunspear
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Michel:
    Is that a scene from the books? “Joffrey challenges Tywin.”

    Yeah, that’s the scene where Joffrey calls Tywin a coward for never fighting Robb directly. Which is about as likable as Joffrey gets, really.

  31. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    While the story of the Night’s King serves to expand the nature of the White Walkers and add to the lore of the Night’s Watch, the tale of the Rat Cook arguably has much more bearing on this season’s events, particularly the Red Wedding. If they could somehow tie the story to both Craster’s murder and the Red Wedding, the lore of the series would be well served, and those transgressions would be better framed for the audience.

  32. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Walter Harrow,

    I’m not much for book quibbles, and I suppose this is more of a practicality quibble that even the TV-savvy GRRM shares, but I’m really hoping Sandor dons his awesome helm for once. The description of it in those particular moments burned an impression into my head, and considering the helm’s symbolism and presence in the preceding chapters of the book, they’d be remiss to drop it entirely as they seem to have.

  33. zambi76
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Michel: Is that a scene from the books? “Joffrey challenges Tywin.”

    Yep. It’s when he calls him a coward that hid on Casterly while his heroic father Robert faught a rebellion.

  34. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    sunspear,

    I hope we get a Tywin slapping Joffrey moment following the “challenge”.

  35. Saeryen
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Mhysa! Mhysa! Mhysa!

  36. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Kyrion:
    Battle of the wall will be season 4 episode 9

    How will they spin Jon’s story for 9 episodes after his return? Doesn’t the Battle at the Wall happen pretty much a chapter after his return? … I’ll have to re-read, I guess. GRRM said he wrote episode 2 of season 4, so I imagined it’d happen then. After that the rest of season 4 would be Jon’s election, his verbal battles with Janos Slynt and Stannis’ occupation of the Wall.

  37. Matt
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    I bet the dragonstone description in episode 10 will be in Davos avoiding a beheading in reading a letter from the Night’s Watch to

  38. Katja
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    sunspear,

    I agree the ghost story will probably be the tale of the Night’s King. Besides, if they’re going to use the Rat Cook story it won’t be until fakeArya’s wedding from ADWD. So much more impact at that point!

    Btw everyone, could you clarify what you mean by PW? Joffrey’s wedding? Are we calling it the Poison Wedding now? I feel out of the loop!

  39. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    Verbal battles? So we’re getting a rap battle at the Wall? 8D

    The thought of waiting that long for a Stannis pay-off on the show makes me twitch a bit.

  40. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    Katja,

    Is stands for Purple Wedding in these hallowed circles, for the lovely shade of Joffrey’s face

  41. Katja
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    I guess the Battle at the Wall or the Battle for Castle Black could be in episode 2 season 4, but I’m betting GRRM’s big event will be Joffrey’s wedding…

  42. Omar Brown
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    Ughhhh Knowing what is coming has me already anxious.

  43. Katja
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    Hahaha, love it!

  44. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Omar Brown,

    Gotta admit, barring the goof-up with the Lord-Walder-hasn’t-picked-a-side-yet continuity, the journey has been fantastic this season, enough to almost make the destinations feel new somehow.

  45. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    Katja,

    Innit? [laughs]

    Also called such for the amethysts involved in the poison’s delivery, so I hear.

  46. queenofthorns
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh: How will they spin Jon’s story for 9 episodes after his return?

    Almost exactly half of Jon’s plot content occurs after he returns to castle black. There’s plenty for a whole season I think.

    Jon recovers from his injuries and tells about the Wildlings plans.
    Battle at Castle Black, Ygritte dies.
    Getting ready for the attack on the wall.
    Battle for the Wall, Jon has to step up and command – the description of the book is all about how long the battle is so it will probably be several episodes.
    Jon treats with Mance on command of Janos Slynt.
    Stannis saves the day.
    Stannis has snarky conversations with everyone about who’s gonna be LC.
    Sam fixes the election on Jon’s behalf.
    Jon’s elected (season finale, probably).

  47. Katja
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    Yeah, but how will they justify their mission over the Wall then? Wasn’t their entire purpose to take Castle Black from the south where they’re unprotected? Half the reason Jon escapes at Queenscrown is to warn them.

  48. sunspear
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Walter Harrow,

    I don’t know if they’ll even bother fake-killing Arya in the show, but even if they do, I think the death of Catelyn is the perfect cliff hanger. Remember in episode 10 how they started out by showing the blood on the execution sword? Starting episode 10 with Arya getting would work just like that.

    Matt,

    WAY too early for that. They need to wait for Joffrey to die before saving Gendry.

  49. Al Swearengen
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    Yeah I am disappointed that ep 9 isn’t going to be mainly the wedding

    S4 is going to be packed with PW, Tyrion’s Trial, Mountain vs. Viper, Wildlings attack the wall and Stannis saving the Nights Watch.

  50. Nick_Scryer
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    Why do people assume that just because GRRM is writing a certain episode it will have a big moment in it?

    Nothing majorly big happened in his Season 1 episode.

  51. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    http://imgur.com/Sxl5Iov

    Coincidence? I think not…

  52. ebevan91
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    Yeah I am disappointed that ep 9 isn’t going to be mainly the wedding

    S4 is going to be packed with PW, Tyrion’s Trial, Mountain vs. Viper, Wildlings attack the wall and Stannis saving the Nights Watch.

    Yeah. Season 4 should blow this season out of the water. And that’s saying a lot because this season has been incredible so far. Though I’m kinda worried about how much AFfC/ADwD material makes it into season 4. The final couple of episodes might be kinda dull, unless they really change around the order of events.

  53. sunspear
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Nick_Scryer,

    I think most people expected that to be the PW episode anyway. They’ll need the first episode to introduce the Red Viper and set up all the other plotlines, and after that there isn’t much they can do to put off that event. There’s only 100 pages between the RW and PW in the books

  54. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    and possibly Tywin’s death as well…

  55. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    Khal-A-Bunga,

    AHAHAHAHA! That’s great!

  56. Ser Tahu
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Nick_Scryer:
    Why do people assume that just because GRRM is writing a certain episode it will have a big moment in it?

    Nothing majorly big happened in his Season 1 episode.

    This. I wouldn’t expect Joffrey’s Wedding until episode 3 or 4 next season, or possibly as late as episode 5. As to what the big climax in episode 9 of next season will be, if they push the Lord Commander election storyline back to season 5, it will be a toss up between Oberyn vs Gregor or the siege of the Wall. If not, it will definitely be Oberyn vs Gregor, ending with Tyrion being sentenced to death.. Either way, I think that it will be OvG, not the siege of the Wall

    sunspear,

    They can’t just introduce Oberyn then plunge immediately into Joffrey’s Wedding, they need time to establish the Elia backstory, and establish his friendship with Tyrion, otherwise him putting his life on the line for Tyrion and against Gregor wouldn’t make any sense to those who haven’t read the books, especially given the hatred between his house and the Lannisters. Also, a lot of material in King’s Landing, especially involving Oberyn and Mace has been moved to next season, and if they have that event so early in the season, how are they going to stretch Tyrion’s trial and escape over 8 episodes?

  57. Tenesmus
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    Def think that Jon’s challenge will be killing Ygritte to escape back to the wall. They can move that and it won’t impact larger story all that much. I also don’t think they can get away with promoting a royal wedding all season, and then not have it this season. My money is still on Joff and Marg’s wedding happening in EP 10.

  58. Delta1212
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I feel like that change was necessary because they didn’t really talk about Frey’s forces being a part of Robb’s army prior to this in the show, it’s fairly in character for Frey not to be jumping in on either side until it suits him, and the important point, that Robb needs Frey’s soldiers despite having crossed him, is left entirely unchanged.

    It’s not really a continuity goof when the only real bit of continuity that it messes with is from the books and left out of the show.

  59. Hoflords
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Mercy comes from strange quarters, probably Davos saving whoever Melisandre wants to burn?

  60. Delta1212
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Tenesmus,

    If it was happening this season, it would have been in the synopsis. It’s not like it’s a huge secret that they’d want to keep under wraps. It’s a huge event where a whole bunch of stuff happens, absolutely none of which is referenced in even that sly, misleading hinty way that they reference events in the synopsis.

    I’m fully on board with the idea that the royal wedding would probably function best this season if there was time, but apparently the production team decided that there simply wasn’t enough room this season for it, and considering the spacing of other events in the show, I don’t blame them. I’d expect it to show up somewhere from episodes 2-4 of next season.

  61. Michael
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    I’m happy with this. I was worried that this season would end with Ygritte’s death, but they’ve clearly pushed back Queenscrown back to EP. 9, Bran’s new gift confirms that. They’ll develop that story more in the rest of these episodes and it spaces out Jon’s story better for Season 4, still ending with the battle at the wall.

    I’m still not happy that RW is in this season, I think it would have been more powerful television to begin Season 4 with that event, plus it gives the audience a payoff with the PW in the same season. I’ve made my peace with that decision, I’m just glad they did not rush the PW into Season 3. Now I’m a little scared Season 4 will start with the PW!

  62. House Snow
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Lot of intersting stuff to glean from the synopsis

    No PW, not surprisingly. Feels like Ygritte will live and that we won’t get any fighting at the wall until next season. Looks like perhaps no leeeches/or an equivalent although maybe it will still be in IT seems like Arya/Hound, KL, and to a lesse extent Stannis are also going to be slowed down this season. Only Bran and Dany seem to be moving ahead at a
    Even if the RW isn’t the whole episode, I suspect the combo or Arya and Robbs stuff is going to be something like 40 out of the 55 or so minutes. Thats enough time. RW wasn’t nearly as long as BW was and since there aren’t a ton of characters to switch b/t like in BW it makes sense that it isn’t the whole episode.

  63. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Nick_Scryer,

    Exactly! His episode was a prelude to “Baelor”. Why not his episode for S4 be the same… prelude for the PW! My bet is that Joff will get purplelized in ep 3… written for televison by D&D.

  64. Turri
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Interesting.

    Looks like Queenscrown in 09, makes sense when you think about it. I’d guess 5 minutes each for Dany and Theon, 15 minutes between Bran and Jon, 30 minutes for RW+Arya

  65. Cookie
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Delta1212:
    WompWomp,
    I feel like that change was necessary because they didn’t really talk about Frey’s forces being a part of Robb’s army prior to this in the show, it’s fairly in character for Frey not to be jumping in on either side until it suits him, and the important point, that Robb needs Frey’s soldiers despite having crossed him, is left entirely unchanged.

    It’s not really a continuity goof when the only real bit of continuity that it messes with is from the books and left out of the show.

    Actually, Cat DID tell Robb in “Baelor” that Walder Freys men will join the northern army.

  66. Walter Harrow
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    sunspear,

    Yeah but they should at least have Arya show up during episode 9. If she misses that episode i will be very disappointed. Having her arrive with the Hound just as the viewers have watched Cat and Robb die would be best in my opinion. Having her show up one week later wouldnt work as well. Opening episode 10 with Arya waking up on the back of the Hound’s horse would work well as well in my mind. Basically, i think it is really important that they have Arya in the same episode as the RW. They could even have her arrive before Cat and Robb have been killed, have her running to them before the Hound takes her out, then cut back to Robb/Cat and end with Cat dying

  67. coronaking
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    sunspear:
    Walter Harrow, I disagree. I think they need at least one scene centered on the Lannisters so the title doesn’t give away what’s going to happen.

    The title gives nothing at all away for a non-book-reader. It was a song in the credits of “Blackwater”, without context or explanation that it was inspired by an old event between House Lannister and Reyne (that has not been mentioned once in the show). Why should anyone assume ANYTHING if they see this episode title?

  68. Superdeluxe
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    What is the spoiler tag?

  69. Seriano
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    I don’t know why people keep saying they’re disappointed that episode 9 won’t be all about the RW. There are only 4 chapters covering it: Robb’s host reaches the Twins, Arya and Sandor also getting there, the actual wedding feast in Cat’s POV and the other Arya chapter in which she gets knocked out by The Hound.

    Not much happens in the first two and the chaos that ensues is really, really fast. There’s no way they could fill 57/58 minutes of the episode with it, even 30 minutes would be quite the stretch.

  70. Delta1212
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Cookie,

    Did she? I thought that got left out with the Walders.

  71. sunspear
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    All of the stuff with Oberyn can be set up well enough in episode one and during the wedding itself. I’m more concerned with what they would use as filler to stall out the PW than what they would do afterwards.

  72. Cookie
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Delta1212:
    Cookie,
    Did she? I thought that got left out with the Walders.

    I just double checked. She did.

  73. Delta1212
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Seriano,

    Seriously. It’s important and impactful, but it’s also very, very short. To last a full hour, you’d basically have to show the wedding in real time instead of TV time, and that would get tedious very quickly.

  74. Walter Harrow
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Seriano,

    I agree that the whole episode cant really focus on RW, but i think that it would be a mistake to include scenes from Kings Landing. I thought it would be better to just focus of the wedding, Arya and the Hound, Bran and Jon. I dont even think they should include Sansa.

  75. Juego de Tronos blog
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    wow, the end of this season will be epic!

  76. Superdeluxe
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    I can’t see the spoiler tag on iPhone, can anyone tell me what the tag is? Is it [s] ?

  77. Nick_Scryer
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Superdeluxe,

    It’s [b] but in html style tags

  78. coronaking
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Superdeluxe:
    I can’t see the spoiler tag on iPhone,can anyone tell me what the tag is?Is it [s] ?

    It’s the angle tags with b and /b in it.

  79. Isabelle
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    RW is coming!!!!!!!!!!

    I still think they can kill Joffrey off in the last episode, though. It just might not be at his wedding. His argument with Tywin will make it even more ambiguous as to who was responsible.

  80. Hard Truths
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Yes, I think this means no Royal Wedding this season. However, I still wouldn’t be surprised if Joffrey is killed in the finale. Not sure how they would go about it, but my gut is that the showrunners are not going to leave arguably the biggest moment in the series so far for an early episode in season 4 when it could be the season 3 ending moment.

    I know some think the Un-Cat scene can deliver a similar shock, but I don’t think Un-Cat will have a huge effect on viewers. I think a lot of show only viewers don’t even like Cat in the first place, so I can’t see them being real pumped up that she is back as a zombie. I actually think people will probably be pissed that Robb wasn’t brought back to life instead of her.

  81. Macharius
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Cookie,

    Kevan also says: “The Stark host has marched south from the Twins, with Lord Frey’s levies in tow”.

  82. Walter Harrow
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Macharius,

    didnt the frey men return home after Robb got married? They could just say that Walder Frey hasnt declared for another King and that Robb needs to do something to get him back. Its not like they are saying that the Freys have always been neutral

  83. outdoorcats
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    “Mercy comes from strange quarters” - Melisandre frees Davos?

  84. Joan Català
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Kyrion,

    I don’t think they can drag Jon’s story so much. My thoughts are that Mance’s attack will start in Episodes 3/4 and that Stannis will get there a couple of episodes later, the big battle happening in Episode 7 at most. Remember that Jon will still have to be elected Lord Commander and offered Winterfell by Stannis after the battle.

  85. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    sunspear,

    There is plenty of filler material.
    E1: Tyrion will welcome the dornish host. Tyrion-Oberyn interaction; begining of their friendship. Mace Tyrell might be also introduced. what a spectacle of a scene will be a Mace-Tywin-Oberyn scene: The fat fool rose, the cold lion and the devilish viper!
    E2: a rather Oberyn episode, him interacting with at leat 3 other characters in KL: Tyrion, Olenna, Marg, Joff, Tywin, Cersei,Varys; I definetly see a seduction scene between him and Cersei.
    E3: The PW! all KL characters are present, plenty of stuff here; I could def see here another predominant KL episode, with only one or two other storylines. Cersei craddles Joff, and Tyrion is arrested.

    The KL plot in S4 as a whole will not lack material, and there is plenty to improvise, since there are the largest number of characters, and more are coming towards the capital!

  86. sunspear
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming,

    That’s one episodes worth of filler material that could just as easily be happening during the wedding itself. Not very convincing.

  87. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Delta1212,

    It’s a continuity goof for being in direct conflict with what is spoken of Lord Walder’s contribution to Robb’s cause in S1. I’m not losing sleep or throwing poop at anyone over it, but it is a clear glitch in the writing. In S1 it’s plainly stated some Frey men will remain to guard the bridge-keep while the rest will bolster the Northern forces.

    Ideally Robb’s willful shotgun wedding would have been followed up with the Frey forces abandoning him, thus reinforcing Catelyn’s ignored wisdom.

    It’s a hiccup with an easy fix, but I’m not letting it get in the way of my overall enjoyment. This has been my favorite season so far. S3 feels like the whole production hitting its stride. I can’t wait for them to adapt AFFC and ADWD into something worth watching.

  88. Paxton Ravenscroft
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    Winter is Coming asked about the quote, at dragonstone mercy comes from a strange quarter, and wondered what that might mean.

    I believe it refers to Davos telling Stannis about the message from the Wall, re: the Wildlings are moving south; and I think that Stannis decides to go North, to assist the Night’s Watch.

  89. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Hard Truths,

    “Could you bring back a man without a head?”
    “I don’t think it works that way, audience.”

    Un-Cat (nice one, my only issue with Lady Stoneheart is her groaner of a name) would be a great pay-off for the Beric resurrecting reveal, and some shocking and much-needed balm after the atrocities of the Red Wedding. It would also fit with the possible pattern of ending each season on an elemental note, as R’hollor’s reanimated champions bear some striking parallels with the ice-kissed Wights beyond the Wall.

    Come to think of it, Cat’s resurrection ties in nicely with Arya’s detached wonder-alouds about bringing back Ned and Beric’s obvious sympathy for her situation. I see some motivation there. Beric can’t return Ned to her, but he sees an opportunity to bring back her mother.

    I don’t think anyone sees Joffrey’s death as THE biggest event in the series. It’s hard to pin one down, but Ned’s behead and the Red Wedding seem to take the cake as far as readers care. Even in terms of how each event affects everyone in the books, Joff’s poisoning ranks below Ned’s execution in my book.

  90. Bryan Cogman
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    Hi all,

    The Freys took their ball and went home (so to speak) when it was discovered Robb married Talisa (in between seasons).

    B

  91. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Bryan Cogman:
    Hi all,

    The Freys took their ball and went home (so to speak) when it was discovered Robb married Talisa (in between seasons).

    B

    Hearing you say it (so to speak) helps smooths it over in my head canon. Thanks, Bryan.

    And my sincere regards, to you and everyone else working your asses off to bring the story to life. The show is flowing more smoothly and fiercely than ever, changes and all. Even as a reader, I find myself forgetting about the destinations and just losing myself in the journey.

    And additional regards for writing an episode with words even more memorable than seeing Dany unleash her dragons. Kissed By Fire is my favorite of the aired five. /endfanrant

    NOTE TO A MODERATOR: My apologies! My post before this needs major spoiler tags.

  92. Walter_Eagle
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    Nick_Scryer:
    Why do people assume that just because GRRM is writing a certain episode it will have a big moment in it?

    Nothing majorly big happened in his Season 1 episode.

    The fucking war started.

  93. Deborah
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    Isabelle,

    That change would force me to send very unhappy emails.

  94. Syrio
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    I think the unlikely mercy could refer to Davos helping Gendry feee

  95. House Snow
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Bryan Cogman:
    Hi all,

    The Freys took their ball and went home (so to speak) when it was discovered Robb married Talisa (in between seasons).

    B

    Thats good to know, although I wish it had been mentioned in the show. I know its probably hard to cram everything in but it seems like there were quite a few opportunities. Unless its mentioned next episode at the negotiations. I guess its just an oversight. Also, one fans plead to get some more northmen in the show even as named extras. Oh and bring back Conan. I know he ticked you guys off, but the show is worse off for it and at the end of the day thats what should matter.

  96. SerCountryFriedSteak
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    I admit that the descriptions do make it seem like Queenscrown is in Episode 9, it just doesn’t make sense

    The first 5 episodes have been really good, so I’ll keep the faith — but the problems at the end of Season 2 are in the back of my mind… Hmmm.

  97. Walter_Eagle
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Kyrion:
    Battle of the wall will be season 4 episode 9

    I really, highly doubt it. That deserves practically a whole episode and should be early season if they want anyone to ever care about Jon again because he does very little of interest or at all before it. I’m guessing Mountain/Red Viper will be the big draw of episode 9.

  98. Turncloak
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Walter Harrow:
    sunspear,

    I think it would be better to have Arya/Hound in episode 9. It would be more impactful to have her try to get to her mother in the same episode as their deaths instead of waiting a week to show Arya. It would also be the best possible cliffhanger in my opinion. Ending with Cat/Robb dying would be good but i think it would be better and more horrific for non readers if they show Arya getting struck by the Hound and making it look like she has been killed aswell

    This didnt fool me in the books and it won’t work in the show. The Hound “killing” Arya is nonsensical and will seem like bad writing

  99. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Walter_Eagle,

    It would take a good deal of material to stretch it out into its own episode. In the event, I’m really hoping Peter Vaughn returns as Maester Aemon. We need some familiar faces to ground the conflict back at the Wall.

  100. Turncloak
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    Highly doubt the battle at the wall will be in episode 9 of season 4. Davos will read the letter from the nights watch in the season 3 finale. Are we not getting any Stannis for the first 8 episodes of season 4? Seems very unlikely. Battle at the wall will be episode 4 or 5. Red viper vs the mountain +Tywins death+Tyrion’s escape will be in episode 9 of season 4.

  101. Isabelle
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    Deborah,

    But it would restore balance to the universe! If Robb must die horribly, Joffrey must follow! : (


    https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4t28otdwV1r1tzq5.jpg

  102. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    House Snow,

    Agreed. All due credit to Ian “The Wight” Whyte as his stand-in, but Conan has the full physicality to inhabit the role, and it’s really hard to overlook. Having Ian with a fake beard sitting at Tywin’s table is one thing, but once we get to the duel with the Red Viper that simply won’t suffice. On another note, glad they further established Gregor’s role in minimizing the Targaryen line this season.

  103. Hounded
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    Bryan Cogman,

    Thanks for clearing that up B-Cog.
    Hate to gripe but wouldn’t it have been simple to just have a line in the series 3 premiere; something like Roose Bolton saying “… since the Freys marched home…” or something ?

  104. jkd
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    I’m not really expecting any big deaths in Season 4 until the middle. No logical reason for this other than Viserys didn’t get his crown until Ep 5 (I think) of Season 1. Which isn’t really that logical anyway.

    Also that Caligula/Joffrey image is rad.

  105. Turncloak
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    Highly doubt the battle at the wall will be in episode 9 of season 4. Davos will read the letter from the nights watch in the season 3 finale. Are we not getting any Stannis for the first 8 episodes of season 4? Seems very unlikely. Battle at the wall will be episode 4 or 5. Red viper vs the mountain, Tywins death, Tyrion’s escape will be in episode 9 of season 4.

  106. Delirium
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    I think she’s in it, because everything will explode big time in that episode, before going into the season finale, where everythings just settle down to prepare us for what comes next in season 4. Obviously, ep 9 will contain THE scene… if you know what I mean.
    Michel,

  107. Loki
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Bryan Cogman:
    Hi all,

    The Freys took their ball and went home (so to speak) when it was discovered Robb married Talisa (in between seasons).

    B

    It better be explained in episode 6. Otherwise all that frey stuff will just make zero sense. You know, just like the rest of Robbs storyarc since episode eight.

    Also have to say your episode was the only good one this season.

  108. JoshT
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    To clarify for all those who are confuses as to what’s happening in episode 409, here’s some confirmation from D&D that the battle at the wall will happen then.

    In response to Blackwater: Benioff: There’s another battle bigger than this one coming up, but not until the end of season four. So we’re preparing our speeches for how we’re gonna ask for more money.

    Read More http://www.gq.com/entertainment/movies-and-tv/201212/game-of-thrones-blackwater-season-two-finale-oral-history#ixzz2SLQg9PJi

    I hope this erases all doubt

  109. Syrio
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    JoshT:
    To clarify for all those who are confuses as to what’s happening in episode 409, here’s some confirmation from D&D that the battle at the wall will happen then.

    In response to Blackwater: Benioff: There’s another battle bigger than this one coming up, but not until the end of season four. So we’re preparing our speeches for how we’re gonna ask for more money.

    Read More http://www.gq.com/entertainment/movies-and-tv/201212/game-of-thrones-blackwater-season-two-finale-oral-history#ixzz2SLQg9PJi

    How do you know that’s the battle at the wall? Maybe it’s the battle of Mereen

  110. Andres
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    Josef Altin who plays Pyp is in this season isn’t he, so we might see castle black.

  111. JoshT
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    Syrio,

    Taking Mereen or defending it? And what better way to end the season than with Stannis saving the Nights Watch, not unlike Tywin saving King’s Landing

  112. Thor
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    Loki,

    Brother! I see you escaped again…Father is furious.

    Bryan Cogman,

    Apologies my lord and to all the Lords and Ladies on this board, my brother is a constant irritation. It must be the Frost Giant(Troll?) blood that courses through his veins. Through the might of Asgard and the justice wrought from Mjoinir which i loftily wield I will return him to Asgard.

  113. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    JoshT,

    So in S4 finale, we have all the politics at the Wall, Jon’s election, Stannis and Jon, etc.? Really? Will there be any time for the other storylines?
    Imo, the battle at the wall will happen in 405, 406 or 407 tops.

    409 is reserved for Tyrion to pay his debts to Shae and his father!

  114. Michael274
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    Loki,

    What an asshole attitude you have . I bet nobody likes being around you in real life .

  115. JoshT
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming,

    Would be a better season ender if the tywin and shae drama happened in episode 10

  116. Nick_Scryer
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming,
    I think they’ll re-arrange the storylines a bit but we can’t really tell until the end of this year.
    Stannis will start next year waiting for the two remaining deaths, Davos will save Gendry in the episode after the final death. Davos will convince Stannis of the letter and they’ll leave for an unknown location. Jon’s storyline will start with the search for a new Lord Commander and preparation for the battle.
    They might split it over two or three episodes.
    4:07 : Using his natural leadership Jon holds the wall against the initial assault.
    4:08: More small battle scenes, Alliser Thorne and Janos Slynt arrive back and imprison Jon.
    4:09: Main battle scenes, Jon is forced to assassinate Mance but before he can Stannis arrives and crushes the Wildlings.
    4:10: Thanks to his great leadership in saving the wall and with a little help from Sam, Jon is elected LC.

  117. Darquemode
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    JoshT,

    I’m OK with the battle taking place in Episode 4.09 personally. Sure it pushes back some of the Stannis arc, Jon’s arc o even some of Mance’s arc maybe, but that is easily tweaked IMO.

    Plus maybe the time at te start of next season can give us time to revisit the WIldlings, meet Val and/ or Dalla etc…

    IF D&D push it to Ep 4.09 it mans they are taking it vey seriously and it could be epic. That’s worth some adjustment and the wait to me personally!

  118. Kyrion
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Syrio: How do you know that’s the battle at the wall? Maybe it’s the battle of Mereen

    You really think the battle of Mereen will cost more money than the battle of the wall?
    With giants, arrows flying, large mammoths, Stannis arriving….it will cost ALOT more than blackwater. Mereen wont cost anywhere near blackwater.

  119. delirium0733
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    Michel,

    I don’t think they will do that. But if it happens, I have a feeling the entire episode will flow perfectly. It will be the best GoT episode yet.

  120. claw
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Jason,

    Rains of Castamere is an appropriate titles since the Freys obvious chose to side with the Lannisters and Frey ain’t bowing to the Wolf.

  121. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    JoshT,

    I believe that in the finale they will enter in affc/adwd material, (D&D said they will) for example in Tyrion’s case, him arriving in Pentos and having dinner with illyrio, and being told to serve the dragon with three heads, everyone assuming is Dany.

    Ep 9 has always been the shocker and the high point in the season, with the finale dealing with the aftermath (Ned’s death, Battle of Blackwater, and this season the RW) And also, to every character in the finale is set a new path to take, to be seen in the next season. Only the last scene of the finale, and the season, is another shocker! (Dragons, White Walkers, and, my guess, UnCat)

  122. Hounded
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    Michael274,

    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!! Snap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  123. claw
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I have been hoping that the resurrection of Cat into Stoneheart will be the last scene of the season a la the white walkers last season and agree that I am feeling more assured of this by the events they’ve presented so far and the exchanges between Arya and Beric. If he can’t bring back Ned, he’ll bring back Cat. I don’t think they’ll leave this to S4 because they seem to be setting it up for this season, so I hope it’s the final scene.

  124. JoshT
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming,

    Episode 9 is the climax episode. I doubt they’ll have a battle like that somewhere in episode 7 and have the following 3 episodes showing the aftermath. They were able to show the aftermath of blackwater fine and cutting all the political fat in episode 10

  125. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    claw,

    It was a strong way to end ASOS, and it would be just as great a note to close this season. Chronologically, she is resurrected not so long after the Red Wedding, so it would be in keeping with the timeline. I can’t think of a better time for it next season either. After Beric’s mysterious and effective off-screen reanimation, I think an on-screen Beric CPR scene would be quite a shocker.

    Michael274,

    Feeding a troll your hate is still feeding. Stay your hand, fellow fellow.

    JoshT,

    Someone mentioned D&D’s vision for 409 possibly being the battle for Meereen. I’m wondering if/how the GoT team will deal with Dany’s largely static arc in ADWD. When I read ADWD, by the time the pit scenes came up, I truly struggled to care. I don’t know whether to have high hopes or deep dread for Dany’s televised arc in that part of the story. Either drastic and wonderful liberties can be taken to streamline her storyline into something compelling, or we’ll have a series of episodes where Dany gets screwed by Daario in a different position week-to-week (just like in the books! :P) until she dragonrides her way out of that dead end of a city.

  126. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    JoshT,

    Someone mentioned D&D’s vision for 409 possibly being the battle for Meereen. I’m wondering if/how the GoT team will deal with Dany’s largely static arc in ADWD. When I read ADWD, by the time the pit scenes came up, I truly struggled to care. I don’t know whether to have high hopes or deep dread for Dany’s televised arc in that part of the story. Either drastic and wonderful liberties can be taken to streamline her storyline into something compelling, or we’ll have a series of episodes where Dany gets screwed by Daario in a different position week-to-week (just like in the books! :P) until she dragonrides her way out of that dead end of a city.

  127. Jacarb
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Consider that the battle at the wall could easily be spread over multiple episodes; it takes multiple days in the book. There will be some time spent on the siege, Jon getting imprisoned by reinforcements, Jon being sent out to treat/assassinate, and then the rout by Stannis that will take all of thirty seconds. It could be one killer episode, or it could be a very compelling half of a season.

    And I think with Queenscrown in episode 9, Ygritte may very well die in 10. Let’s say Jon escapes at the end of episode 9; the next we see Ygritte is the strike from the south. And it’s already 40 raiders instead of 200, like in the books, and we probably aren’t getting the flaming stairs, like in the books. So it’s going to be a smaller skirmish. And the next thing after Queenscrown. And they won’t have to write up a contract for Rose Leslie for season 4. Sigh.

  128. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    Jacarb,

    The Battle of the Blackwater lasted more than a day, and we know how that turned out in the show. I like the idea of stretching the Battle at the Wall over episodes to provide that sense of a prolonged struggle, but that isn’t all that practical from a storytelling perspective. Of course, given D&D’s acknowledgement that at least one battle remains to be adapted that’s even larger than Blackwater, presumably the Battle at the Wall (since none of Dany’s conquests are as story-critical as the Wall), it wouldn’t be too farfetched to imagine another episode-long conflict in the show’s future.

    Of course all we say is educated speculation, but I highly doubt Ygritte will die so quickly. But then again, Jon X Ygritte was pretty much a blur compared to the books, so I won’t take you up on a wager. It’s just hard to imagine Ygritte being offed so quickly. It’s like how some people were saying they wouldn’t be surprised if Joffrey was killed in 310. Both characters have their due checkout points. Like some others, my best guess is Jon’s greatest challenge yet (as described in the episode synopsis) is executing a man, and that his storyline this season ends with his escape from the wildlings to warn Castle Black.

  129. claw
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    Further to my hope of seeing Stoneheart as the finale of the season, I REALLY hope they show Nymeria dragging her out of the river. They haven’t really mentioned the packs of wolves lead by the giant she-wolf this season, though I faintly remember their being mentioned last season. They need to bring that back around. And I hope Arya has a wolf dream at some, point, too. Someone above mentioned possibly having the BwB interacting with the wolves and Arya going after the wolves. I’d buy that. Not crossing my fingers, but could then lead into Nymeria pulling out Cat from the river.

    And one other thing I’m missing is Mance’s pregnant wife. They need to introduce her to spawn all of the Gilly/Sam stuff in the later books. Though I suppose that can come up later during the Battle at the wall/Castle Black.

  130. Josh
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Highly doubt the battle at the wall will be in episode 9 of season 4. Davos will read the letter from the nights watch in the season 3 finale. Are we not getting any Stannis for the first 8 episodes of season 4? Seems very unlikely. Battle at the wall will be episode 4 or 5. Red viper vs the mountain, Tywins death, Tyrion’s escape will be in episode 9 of season 4.

    Incorrect. Benioff & Weiss have stated a few times that the Battle at the Wall will be the next huge CGI project/battle for the show and that it will occur, yes, at the end of season 4.

  131. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    claw,

    I totally forgot about Nymeria’s role in Cat’s resurfacing! If you listen to the latest Game of Owns podcast featuring Bryan Cogman, you will learn the writers have a Bran-only-has-dreams rule. It’s a smart decision for the purposes of audience comprehension, and it’s not an ironclad rule (as they made an exception for Sansa last season), but I can imagine their concern with confusing people with more than one wolf-dreamer. On side note, that latest podcast is a must-listen. Great, great stuff.

    As for Son of Mance and his mother, I believe they’re pulling another Reeds/Tullys with them. Too many newcomers in one season would overwhelm audiences. There’s clearly a lot of material connected to those characters, so I highly doubt they’ve been cut, just set aside for the next phase of production.

  132. claw
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I will give the podcast a listen and totally see the possible confusion of introducing other wolf dreams. Sigh. Though I feel they’ve been alluding to keeping Nymeria’s role in Cat’s resurrection since Arya pointedly asked the Hound if the Inn was familiar. Not only did the Butcher’s Boy get rundown there, but Ned killed Lady there, too, and Nymeria got away in that same locale. Granted, they’ve moved on to the BwB hideout, so maybe they won’t. Five more weeks will tell.

  133. kanjisheik
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Bring Conan back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please, Mr. Cogman, make it happen….

  134. Nick_Scryer
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    kanjisheik,

    I fully agree with this. No disrespect to Ian but Conan IS the Mountain.

  135. Clob
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    It’s understandable for people to be excited to see certain events as soon as possible but for the program it really is better if they spread things a bit.

    If this season went through the events of ASoS we’d lose a lot of the current “major” characters within a few episodes; Robb, Catelyn (for the most part), Joffrey, Tywin, Shae, Ygritte… (Grey Wind), Beric, along with Mormont. It’s not only a lot for viewers to take in but that would also be the show losing a lot of really great actors in a short time. Then there are a bunch of other more “minor-major” book characters with multiple show appearances and lines that die in ASoS like Lysa and The Mountain (kinda), plus Craster. Oberyn if he’s part of the show, etc…

    All of these things are what made ASoS so good and a series favorite, but slamming all that into 1/3 of the show season seems overwhelming and a bad idea (to me). It’s a good thing they can combine Feast and Dance chronologically for the show or else some other majors would be missing for quite some time.

  136. OhManymous
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    What the hell are Jaime and Brienne going to do from now on? In the books, basically nothing happens after the bear incident and they arrive in KL with no more eventful occurrences in between. When they do arrive, it is post Purple Wedding and Jaime and Cersie make love in front of Joff’s corpse. So for Episodes 8, 9, 10 of Season 3 and who knows how many episodes in Season 4, what are Jaime and Brienne going to be doing? They may have to invent filler material for them, or change it up so they arrive BEFORE the Purple Wedding.

    Thoughts?

  137. Turri
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    OhManymous,
    Just leave them out a bit, then have them arrive in KL immediately after PW with all the bell’s ringing and a chaotic court. Could be a cool scene.

  138. Door
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Darquemode:
    JoshT,

    I’m OK with the battle taking place in Episode 4.09 personally. Sure it pushes back some of the Stannis arc, Jon’s arc o even some of Mance’s arc maybe, but that is easily tweaked IMO.

    Plus maybe the time at te start of next season can give us time to revisit the WIldlings, meet Val and/ or Dalla etc…

    IF D&D push it to Ep 4.09 it mans they are taking it vey seriously and it could be epic. That’s worth some adjustment and the wait to me personally!

    I’m not. How that makes sense to anyone is beyond me. As some other poster pointed out, most of Jon’s arc (the compelling part, too) takes place about halfway through SoS, so they have plenty to do in season 4 for Jon. Why waste it on filler?

    OhManymous:
    What the hell are Jaime and Brienne going to do from now on? In the books, basically nothing happens after the bear incident and they arrive in KL with no more eventful occurrences in between. When they do arrive, it is post Purple Wedding and Jaime and Cersie make love in front of Joff’s corpse. So for Episodes 8, 9, 10 of Season 3 and who knows how many episodes in Season 4, what are Jaime and Brienne going to be doing? They may have to invent filler material for them, or change it up so they arrive BEFORE the Purple Wedding.

    Thoughts?

    to have them back in KL before the PW would be a mistake, because it would change the storyline completely. I would prefer filler, give Jaime his revenge or something . However, there are parts like finding out about the RW which could be added and still be book canon

  139. OhManymous
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    Turri,

    You think viewers and the actors as well will be happy with being left out in probably 5 + episodes? That’s half a season.

  140. GG
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    This confirms that PW isn’t in ep 10. Personally, I think this is a terrible loss in terms of marketting. A RW/PW double punch would have been perfect.

  141. caoimay
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    If they’re telling stories, will meera tell ‘the knight of the laughing tree’?

  142. Turri
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    OhManymous,
    Not really. Let me speculate:
    - 307 ends with Jaime killing Locke
    - 308 leaving Harrenhal, a bit of dialogue, “I dreamed of you”
    - 310 on the road, hear about RW, what does it mean for them?
    (- 402 PW)
    - 403 arriving

  143. Eor!
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    Can anyone explain what PW stands for? I know it’s refering to Joffrey’s wedding, but not the acronym. Purple Wedding cause Joffery chokes?

  144. Jentario
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    No PW this season :(
    No Battle of Castle Black this season :(
    Seems like a lot of stories are going to end in the middle of their arc.
    And why in hell is Queenscrown in the same episode as RW? A happy “win” moment in the same episode as the worst moment ever? What are they going to do with Jon for two episodes? If anything Queenscrown should have been episode 10.
    And by “Mhysa” I’m assuming they’ll have Stoneheart as well. That seems like pretty much every mistake they could ever make in terms of where to split the book (in my opinion obviously).
    I guess we’ll have to wait and see how this pans out…

    Hopefully it ends up working out…

  145. Jentario
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Eor!:
    Can anyone explain what PW stands for? I know it’s refering to Joffrey’s wedding, but not the acronym. Purple Wedding cause Joffery chokes?

    Yes lol

  146. Josla
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    Joan Català,

    Jon’s story this season (as well as the last one) has been very dissapointing. If they don’t show a battle at the wall what’s the point of his character? His story was very compelling the first season. We watch him overcome obstacles and turn Grenn and Pyp into friends whjle getting the respect of the lord commander, developed a cute camaraderie with Sam and the challenge to his vows after his father died was good storytelling. I feel the next two seasons have been very poor when the writers could have invented some interesting scenes for him for character develolment instead of the repetitious stuff he’s been doing so far

  147. Jentario
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    GG:
    This confirms that PW isn’t in ep 10. Personally, I think this is a terrible loss in terms of marketting. A RW/PW double punch would have been perfect.

    Yes, just like in the book. But honestly, I’d call it giving the viewers a punch and a punching bag. The perfect thing to give the viewer after RW is PW and now its just a whole lot of nothing. Unless they show off Lady Stoneheart, but the timing will be off and it won’t be as big a moment (just a cheap resurrection scene) and it will definitely not be enough. Viewers will be lost and rightfully so.

  148. Joan Català
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    Turri,

    I think they could even arrive in KL in the same episode as the PW, but after all goes down. I think it would be powerful to see Jaime arrive in the throne room just as Cersei is crying and cradling Joffrey. Also viewers would be anticipating the reunion between Jaime and his family (and their reactions to his missing hand). They’d be also expecting that as Brienne is already in the capital Sansa’s ordeal has come to an end as Jaime swore he would give Brienne the stark girls. But then Sansa is gone at the last moment.

  149. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    I like how people are worried about filler and not having enough material to stretch the story out over season 4. Have they not watched the stuff in KL this season? Most of the scenes are original to the show. Sansa and Tyrion will be getting married in episode 8, whereas they are married much sooner in the books. And this ‘filler’ has been great and entertaining. I think people get so caught up in the big events of the books and think the show just needs to bang these out instead of letting the story breathe.

    Also, we told all of you that the PW wasn’t happening this year. I’m glad D&D were smart enough not to rush through that. The RW should be a punch in the stomach that needs to linger. Frankly, I hope they don’t show Stoneheart until next season so it doesn’t limit the impact of the RW. But this is a scene I expect them to show this season, unlike the PW.

  150. Jentario
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    claw:
    Further to my hope of seeing Stoneheart as the finale of the season, I REALLY hope they show Nymeria dragging her out of the river. They haven’t really mentioned the packs of wolves lead by the giant she-wolf this season, though I faintly remember their being mentioned last season.They need to bring that back around.And I hope Arya has a wolf dream at some, point, too.Someone above mentioned possibly having the BwB interacting with the wolves and Arya going after the wolves.I’d buy that. Not crossing my fingers, but could then lead into Nymeria pulling out Cat from the river.


    And one other thing I’m missing is Mance’s pregnant wife.They need to introduce her to spawn all of the Gilly/Sam stuff in the later books. Though I suppose that can come up later during the Battle at the wall/Castle Black.

    Why would you want to see SH this season? That would just mean she’ll disappear from the screen for two seasons straight, till the end of season 5 when Brienne gets to her. Unless of course they add their own scenes (which can be really bad since there are only so many scenes SH can get) or they take Brienne’s story into next season (which would mean they’ll have nothing to do with her later and the chronology will get deeply fucked.

    On top of that, revealing SH this season will be too early. She dies and returns one episode later. That would just seem like a cheap fantasy resurrection scene and it will not be as impactful and surprising as the ASoS epilogue. IMO there is no way to bring SH into this season without it screwing up the next seasons and we don’t want that.

    PW (along with Sansa’s escape) would have been a much better finale because it actually helps make up for RW (unlike SH) and it happens only five or so chapters after RW in the books so its not like it will be too much (in the books it was perfect).

    I wonder how it will work out :/

  151. Clob
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Eor!:
    Can anyone explain what PW stands for? I know it’s refering to Joffrey’s wedding, but not the acronym. Purple Wedding cause Joffery chokes?

    Purple wedding. Purple choking face Joffrey. Purple is the color of kings – a royal color…

  152. JaimeNotJamie
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    I wonder what they’re going to do with the Jaime/Brienne story the last 3 episodes. I assumed they’d be out of the 9th and maybe the 8th, but I think it would be odd after devoting so much time to them this season to have them completely absent the last three episodes. Maybe a reaction shot in episode 10 after they find out about the RW somehow?

  153. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    I do not expect Davos to receive the letters from the Wall this season. Jon will only just arrive back at Castle Black in the finale and warn them about the Wildling attack. The letters will be sent out, but they won’t arrive until next season. IMO.

    As far as Jaime and Brienne’s arrival in KL and how far they can stretch out their journey from Harrenhal. Here is my guess:

    307: Jaime rescues Brienne in the bear pit
    308: Brienne is recovering from her injuries at Harrenhal
    310: Jaime and Brienne leave for KL and react to the news of the RW
    402: Jaime and Brienne travel through the countryside and Jaime tells the story of when he received his white cloak. They hear news of the royal wedding about to take place.
    403: Arrive in KL for the aftermath of the PW

  154. caoimay
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Eor!,

    Eor!:
    Can anyone explain what PW stands for? I know it’s refering to Joffrey’s wedding, but not the acronym. Purple Wedding cause Joffery chokes?

    It’s cause sansa’s purple beads on her hairnet end up being the poison that kills him, the ghost of high heart says that the girl has purple servants in her hair

  155. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Waiting until season 4 for the PW allows the RW to linger in the viewer’s minds. For the viewers angered by this to leave the show. Oh well. Fuck ‘em. Why can’t they have the reaction and frustration that many of us were left with after reading about Robb and Catelyn’s fate? In TV time you need at least a couple of episodes to make an impact otherwise to follow immediately with the PW seems like “another shocking twist!”. Let Sansa mourn, let Tyrion scowl, let Joffrey crow and crow. The fact that D and D are going wait an entire season for the karmic justice to befall on the Lannisters is proof that the showrunners still have the balls they possessed in season 1 with Baelor.

    Yes we may lose some fans, but I guarantee you all we will earn more for this daring move.

  156. Darquemode
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    Door,

    Don’t get me wrong, I would prefer the major battle NOT take place in Ep 4.09…..
    I just understand the logic of it. I can see some logic behind having Season 4 deal with Jon’s return and the assault on the Wall and then have Season 5 dealing with Jon being named Lord Commander and learning to lead.

    With D&D now having to adjust the books more and more to suit a more traditional TV format they will need to push some events back and pull other events forward to create suitable character arcs for each season.

    I suspect that over the next few years many scenes will be out of book chronology… It needs to be done. I may not see things how D&D see them, but I do not know which aspects of which arcs they plan to highlight either.

    Just like choosing this season to stop after the RW and before the PW. To me it was the obvious choice and absolutely nothing will be lost by not “closing” the King’s Landing chapter with Joff’s weddingg. Never mind that page count wise it should take place in Season 4 anyway….

    Who knows, the debate over when the major battle at the Wall takes place may be premature anyway. Them mentioning a huge battle in Ep 4.09 during a past interview does not mean they will necessarily stick to the timeline they have outlined back then. Things might evolve and shift again.

  157. Gabe
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    I think the rat king story makes a fair amount of sense to show up in ep 10. We need *something* there to show the viewers that even if the war is nominally ended, the desire for vengeance is greater than ever, and to show just how huge the sin of breaking guest-right is.

  158. Jentario
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    Waiting until season 4 for the PW allows the RW to linger in the viewer’s minds. For the viewers angered by this to leave the show. Oh well. Fuck ‘em. Why can’t they have the reaction and frustration that many of us were left with after reading about Robb and Catelyn’s fate? In TV time you need at least a couple of episodes to make an impact otherwise to follow immediately with the PW seems like “another shocking twist!”. Let Sansa mourn, let Tyrion scowl, let Joffrey crow and crow. The fact that D and D are going wait an entire season for the karmic justice to befall on the Lannisters is proof that the showrunners still have the balls they possessed in season 1 with Baelor.


    Yes we may lose some fans, but I guarantee you all we will earn more for this daring move.

    In the book all we had to do is keep reading. We didn’t have to wait a year with RW nightmares still lingering in our heads and no hope in sight (UNLIKE BAELOR, where we had Robb’s crowning and Dany’s dragons). Also, RW is much worse than Baelor. The very fact they’re going through with it means they have balls. Waiting a year for the payoff Mel will be promising will likely throw off a good chunk of fans. Don’t expect to see another magical rise in viewers next season.

    Also, PW happens almost immediately after RW. I just counted and there are 5 chapters in between: Tyrion, Davos, Jon, Bran, Dany and then Tyrion (the wedding begins here). That is almost right away and it felt like good timing when I read it.

  159. Joffery Nannister
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    LOL
    No Purple Wedding for you!
    The D&D can do as they like

  160. GeekFurious
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Jentario: In the book all we had to do is keep reading. We didn’t have to wait a year with RW nightmares still lingering in our heads and no hope in sight (UNLIKE BAELOR, where we had Robb’s crowning and Dany’s dragons). Also, RW is much worse than Baelor. The very fact they’re going through with it means they have balls. Waiting a year for the payoff Mel will be promising will likely throw off a good chunk of fans. Don’t expect to see another magical rise in viewers next season.


    Also, PW happens almost immediately after RW. I just counted and there are 5 chapters in between: Tyrion, Davos, Jon, Bran, Dany and then Tyrion (the wedding begins here). That is almost right away and it felt like good timing when I read it.

    In 11 months, people will be right back to see what happens next, no matter what.

  161. Jentario
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    GeekFurious: In 11 months, people will be right back to see what happens next, no matter what.

    I hope you’re right.

    I knew this was coming but it still managed to piss me off.

  162. Josh
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    Jentario:
    No Battle of Castle Black this season :(
    Seems like a lot of stories are going to end in the middle of their arc.
    And why in hell is Queenscrown in the same episode as RW?

    I’m actually quite unsure why everyone in this thread is assuming that “Jon faces his harshest test yet” means Queenscrown. I’m fairly sure it doesn’t, and I’m fairly sure that based on the promo pictures we saw before the show started airing, Queenscrown will be in Episode 7 or 8, probably the latter. Jon facing his “harshest test” is, IMO, quite obviously Jon pushing an arrow through his leg/making it back to Castle Black after the arrow/convincing his brothers that he’s not a traitor. Though it’s not in the synopsis, I bet the battle for the wall and Ygritte’s death will occur in Episode 10.

  163. Easteros bunny
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    RW will be the making or the breaking of the show!

  164. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    Josh,

    His harshest test will be being asked to kill the old man at Queenscrown and deciding to escape the wildlings and ride for Castle Black. I do not expect there will be a battle at Castle Black from the South in the show. I think the wildlings will climb back over the Wall once Jon escapes.

  165. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    Easteros bunny,

    The show has already made it. The RW will just cement it’s legacy.

  166. Lord Of Lite
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    No one has to say that Mance knows Tormund has not succeeded by his returning to the north side of the Wall. He is expecting the eagle to fly back and give the signal. If the eagle flys back and dies at his feet, he’ll get the picture.

  167. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Jentario,

    Believe what you want to believe, I understand your reservations really I do. But to have one big event immediately after another event robs the first event of its power in my opinion. Reading the RW in the book was a blow to the gut moment and many of us put down the book for at least as spell before we got back into it again. If you have only a week to feel the impact followed by “oh Joffrey is dead” it takes the sting out. So Joffrey dies right after Robb? That’s lame. We also don’t
    know what foreshadowing and hints of what’s to come that D and D have planned. We have Bran and possibly telling of the Knight’s king, the Rat king, Joffrey angering Tywin, Dany at Yunkai etc. We don’t know. There’s also those who will be so pissed with the RW and how depressing this story is that they will want to hang on hoping to see Joffrey get his. There is a chance that when he does get his in season 4 that new story elements might intrigue them to continue. But if Joff dies at the end of season 3 they might just decide that’s enough for them to stop watching the show.

    Again I say to those viewers who will leave …again I say “fuck’ em.” And from this position I will be not be budged.

  168. Nick_Scryer
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    Off topic but: Nikolaj Coster-Waldau getting some recognition!! Hopefully he’ll get some from the emmy panel too!!

    http://tvline.com/2013/05/04/game-of-thrones-nikolaj-coster-waldau-performer-of-the-week/

  169. GeekFurious
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    I am sure the creators of the show know what they are doing and will leave us with a sufficient cliff-hanger that will make people want to see what happens next.

  170. House Snow
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: to linger in the viewer’s minds. For the viewers angered by this to leave the show. Oh well

    There is a lot of truth to this. Look at Lord commander Mormonts death. It was well done, but it kind of got lost in the episode for Dracrays. I think there is definitely something to be said for letting people digest a major event.

  171. Zack
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    Where are the lost viewers from Eddard’s death? I don’t see them. Ratings will start S4 higher than the S3 finale. To think otherwise is just silliness.

  172. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Zack,

    My sentiments exactly.

  173. RT
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    Josla:
    Joan Català,

    Jon’s story this season (as well as the last one) has been very dissapointing. If they don’t show a battle at the wall what’s the point of his character? His story was very compelling the first season. We watch him overcome obstacles and turn Grenn and Pyp into friends whjle getting the respect of the lord commander, developed a cute camaraderie with Sam and the challenge to his vows after his father died was good storytelling. I feel the next two seasons have been very poor when the writers could have invented some interesting scenes for him for character develolment instead of the repetitious stuff he’s been doing so far

    Agree! No warging, no finding dragon glass & horn, Qharin Halfhand, no bonding with Tormund, ETC… so much the writers COULD have used to develop Jon’s character from the books.

  174. Endless Giraffe
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    Personally, I think that we need to start and end episode nine with the RW, people can say what they will, but it should be at least 2/3 of the episode for proper impact.

    Start with arrival at the twins, discussions with Roose and other bannermen, Arya and the hound approaching
    Then Dany scene
    More RW, greeting Frey, Arya in camps outside
    Jon + Bran arriving at Queenscrown
    More RW, probably actual Ceremony, more Arya
    Queenscrown
    Wedding Feast for last 15 minutes. Have the battle outside to but keep the main focus on the inside. I’d end with a distance shot of the silhouetted figures of Arya running down bridege and the hound following as the Axe slowly comes down on her, Flaming camps in the background.

  175. Syrio
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Eor!,

    It’s also called the PW because the color of the poison is purple, as in Sansa’s purple hairnet.

  176. Syrio
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    Endless Giraffe:
    Personally, I think that we need to start and end episode nine with the RW, people can say what they will, but it should be at least 2/3 of the episode for proper impact.

    Start with arrival at the twins, discussions with Roose and other bannermen, Arya and the hound approaching
    Then Dany scene
    More RW, greeting Frey, Arya in camps outside
    Jon + Bran arriving at Queenscrown
    More RW, probably actual Ceremony, more Arya
    Queenscrown
    Wedding Feast for last 15 minutes. Have the battle outside to but keep the main focus on the inside. I’d end with a distance shot of the silhouetted figures of Arya running down bridege and the hound following as the Axe slowly comes down on her, Flaming camps in the background.

    I think you start with the guess right ceremony

  177. Silverstormm
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    I really think some people ought to wake up – whining about things not being in the right order (wah) or not in this season (wah) etc – we’re so flipping lucky we get to see this epic saga unfold in front of our eyes at all!
    Yes I’ve missed some stuff that was cut i.e. weasel soup & the chain but I’m not whining and moaning about it, I understand the show has to make sacrifices & compromises and I for one am just delighted that we get to see this fantastic story brought to life by such competent people as BC and D&D. The show is the show and the books are the books, that’s the way it is and no amount of complaining is going to change that.
    Some people are never happy and it’s frankly astounding.

  178. Sally
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Loki,

    If you only like one episode PLEASE just stop watching the show. You sound like a major brat. I hate

  179. BeersBestFriend
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    PW will start next season. There is allot of story after that. Tyrion and Jaime in his cell. Sansa’s escape and life at the Vail. Tyrion VS. Shay and Tywin. Jon still has to escape at the same time Bran is in the lake hideout during the storm. Then get to the wall, warn everyone. Then Bran uses the secret entrance with Tarly. ALLOT to go this season before PW and The battle of Castle black.

  180. Delirium
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    ebevan91,

    Season 4 will be based on the second half of A Storm Of Swords. Season 5 and 6will be AFOC & ADWD.

  181. Zack
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    Endless Giraffe,

    If it takes up too much time there’s a risk of telegraphing the ending. Spread it out enough and people may be expecting something cliffhangerish but be unsure regarding which storyline it will be.

  182. Modular
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    Alice,

    The Flayed Man,

    Synopses are never complete or definitive…they’re meant to tease us but often also put us off the scent. We will see very dramatic doings in Kingslanding I believe. The story arc demands it.

  183. Superdeluxe
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    Also, we told all of you that the PW wasn’t happening this year. I’m glad D&D were smart enough not to rush through that. The RW should be a punch in the stomach that needs to linger. Frankly, I hope they don’t show Stoneheart until next season so it doesn’t limit the impact of the RW. But this is a scene I expect them to show this season, unlike the PW.

    They have to do that in episode 10, People need a little hope/good things. We have to remember, the readers could just pick up the book and keep on reading..the viewers will have to wait for a full year to be able to come back to Westeros. Need Lady Stoneheart.

  184. Superdeluxe
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: Waiting until season 4 for the PW allows the RW to linger in the viewer’s minds. For the viewers angered by this to leave the show. Oh well. Fuck ‘em. Why can’t they have the reaction and frustration that many of us were left with after reading about Robb and Catelyn’s fate? In TV time you need at least a couple of episodes to make an impact otherwise to follow immediately with the PW seems like “another shocking twist!”. Let Sansa mourn, let Tyrion scowl, let Joffrey crow and crow. The fact that D and D are going wait an entire season for the karmic justice to befall on the Lannisters is proof that the showrunners still have the balls they possessed in season 1 with Baelor.

    Yes we may lose some fans, but I guarantee you all we will earn more for this daring move.

    Here is the difference. Book readers could keep on reading after that, TV Viewers? What is their option? Need to end it with Nymeria pulling Lady Stoneheart out of the water.

  185. Delirium
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Stoneheart will be introduce in this season, but not completely. They will leave a cliffhanger, letting us know she comes back to life.

  186. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Superdeluxe,

    I agree with you on Nymeria and Lady Stoneheart in ep 10,
    I’m just against having the PW in the following episode after the RW. I have stated my reasons why above.

  187. Hounded
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Yeah that sounds about right to me. I think just watching those 2 together on screen will be plenty entertaining.

  188. mariamb18
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    Waiting until season 4 for the PW allows the RW to linger in the viewer’s minds… Let Sansa mourn, let Tyrion scowl, let Joffrey crow and crow. The fact that D and D are going wait an entire season for the karmic justice to befall on the Lannisters is proof that the showrunners still have the balls they possessed in season 1 with Baelor.

    Agree. The injustice of the RW cannot be addressed properly one episode later. It has to linger in viewers’ minds so we can mourn. For me, retribution for the RW isn’t served with Joffrey’s death but with Tywin’s. And I do not believe that the “non-reading viewers” will abandon this show en masse after the RW. By now, I think that most follow this show knowing – as Ramsay says in the preview – “if you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Easteros bunny,

    The show has already made it. The RW will just cement it’s legacy.

    Correct. “Baelor” was the brave inital move.

  189. Superdeluxe
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: I agree with you on Nymeria and Lady Stoneheart in ep 10,
    I’m just against having the PW in the following episode after the RW. I have stated my reasons why above.

    Oh I agree RW and PW need to stand apart from each other, they both deserve it.

  190. Delirium
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    Seriano,

    FINALLY!!! Someone who understand and thinks with the logic. You’re absolutely right. I have to agree with you 100%.

  191. Superdeluxe
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    mariamb18: Agree. The injustice of the RW cannot be addressed properly one episode later. It has to linger in viewers’ minds so we can mourn. For me, retribution for the RW isn’t served with Joffrey’s death but with Tywin’s. And I do not believe that the “non-reading viewers” will abandon this show en masse after the RW. By now, I think that most follow this show knowing – as Ramsay says in the preview – “if you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”

    Seems like most non-book reader favorites are Tyrion, Arya and Dany. So not sure too many will be dropping out.

  192. mariamb18
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    Superdeluxe: Seems like most non-book reader favorites are Tyrion, Arya and Dany.So not sure too many will be dropping out.

    Agree – that’s why I said that I don’t think that the RW will cause a massive drop in viewers.

  193. Modular
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Tenesmus,

    Agree entirely. The Royal wedding takes place E10. Cersei’s distress is one of the ‘Mother’ events (“Mhysa”), as will be the arcs of the Mother of Dragons, and The Mother of Bran, Arya, Sansa et al. They will contribute to climaxes, cliffhangers, or both. I reckon.

  194. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Modular,

    Stubborn, are we? If the royal wedding was happening it would be in the synopsis. The PW is a longer and more detailed event than the RW. I think an entire episode could be devoted to the PW. It is not happening in the finale.

  195. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    Remember when Lady’s death caused that earliest of flare-ups? Goes to show anything can be a trigger. Maybe someone stopped watching when Jory got a dagger in the eye. I read someone sudden-quit the show after Brienne almost got raped. Any scene with a notable degree of intensity has the potential to turn someone off, and it’s not in the interest of the show to tread lighter because of it.

    I see GoT fandom a bit like Dark Souls fandom. Anyone still following the show has “the hunger” and will always come back for more wonder and punishment. Anyone who stops watching after this scene or that one? Wow, it’s a real shame, but I won’t be asking them to stop the train for them. I expect most people won’t. I don’t see why some people here insist on making these judgments for viewers ahead of time. Just a waste of breath, really. Let those thinskins draw their own conclusions, if they exist.

  196. Pate
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Aryia as Nymeria discovering Catelyn’s body, during the sleep “induced” by the hound.
    Beautiful way to start the last episode of the season…

  197. Modular
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    And two or three Dragon events–their rebirth into the world, and the end of book five, for example–are bigger events.

  198. sunspear
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    I always thought they would just have Arya pull Cat out of the water herself.

    And regarding Lady Stoneheart, I think showing her resurrection would be a stupid mistake. The whole reason that worked in the books is that it was so unexpected. The second they show her body and Thoros in the same scene, everyone is going to be thinking ‘Oh, I wonder what’s going to happen now?’. They should just end the season with Dany’s triumph in Yunkai.

  199. idkk
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    Any thoughts on how Yara is going to fit into this season? I’m also interested in Stephanie Blacker’s role, don’t see where it could fit in.

  200. Modular
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Nick_Scryer,

    Joan Català,

    I think your onto something. J &B arrive in KL the same episode asPW, missing the event and arriving amidst turmoil. Episode 310 , synopsis be damned (other examples: no Arya in the synopsis for 306, but she’s in the look ahead).

  201. GoT
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Lady Stoneheart on Ep. 10? Rs, no fuckin way, at least not the scene when she hangs Merrett Frey, it’ll be too early for that.

    Maybe D&D will end the season showing Thoros giving Cat’s corpse the Lord’s Kiss, and then her opening her eyes again, but I sincerely hope they’ll end it with Dany’s triumph and the 10.000 slave ovation

  202. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    idkk,

    No idea, but the way we’ve been treated with A-list “filler” this season, I’m sure looking forward to more Yara. I also like how they’ve redone her character as a hardened leader instead of (as someone so aptly put it a year ago) the “lusty pirate wench” she is in the books.

    I’ve only recently learned of the Ghost of High Heart’s indirect confirmation that Balon Greyjoy was assassinated by a Faceless Man. I hope they flesh that out a bit more. That also reminds me of a great Stannis scene I’m hoping see see from the books: his cursing of the false kings over a fire in Dragonstone.

  203. Jamb0
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    mariamb18: Agree – that’s why I said that I don’t think that the RW will cause a massive drop in viewers.

    Yeah, I don’t think it will at all. From what I can gather from reading comments here and there, most people think that Robb’s a bit of an idiot anyways.

    I’m actually looking forward to episodes next season - having that storyline/set of characters removed will free up a ton of screen time for some cool new characters: Red Viper/other Martells, some more Greyjoys if the Kingsmoot is in s4, or just more time with other characters that have had to split a lot of screen time.

  204. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    GoT:
    Lady Stoneheart on Ep. 10? Rs, no fuckin way, at least not the scene when she hangs Merrett Frey, it’ll be too early for that.

    Maybe D&D will end the season showing Thoros giving Cat’s corpse the Lord’s Kiss, and then her opening her eyes again, but I sincerely hope they’ll end it with Dany’s triumph and the 10.000 slave ovation

    I know what you meant to say, but that’s just so hilariously wrong. “Kissed by Fire” indeed. Thoros would have to be quite a “kisser” to wake the dead.” [laughs] Of course the honor belongs to Lord Beric this time around, and he kisses her like a gentleman.

    None of us rooting for a Stoneheart finale suggested a Frey hanging to close the season. As you say, that would be way to sudden. It is the RESURRECTION we are all hoping for. You can’t get much more dramatic than that, and it’s an especially nice parallel to Ned’s inglorious and uncheatable death.

  205. Jamb0
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    sunspear:
    I always thought they would just have Arya pull Cat out of the water herself.

    How would that work at all? Why would Arya go to Bravos afterwards? Why would Cat hang Brienne? Isn’t a bit part of un-Cat’s motivation/whatever you call it that she thinks Arya is dead and that Brienne failed/betrayed her in the mission to trade Jamie for her daughters?

    I think it would work much better as Arya having her first wolf dream/warging experience while Nymeria pulls Cat out of the river – would be a great uplifting thing for non-book readers after the RW: Aryas wolf is still alive and kicking ass, Cat is revived, promise of vengeance, etc.

  206. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    sunspear,

    Not sure how having Arya pull her out would enhance the scene in any way. It would be overly dramatic for this show, if anything. Game of Thrones is often sensational, but not so obviously sentimental.

    I find your lack of imagination disturbing. Anyone could have said that of a number of filmed scenes in the series that were “off-screen” in the books, but the newly visual material we’re getting this season has been outstanding. Thoughtful direction could make Cat’s resurrection another somber turned startling moment.

  207. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    Modular,

    Agreed. Gotta love the subtle way their rebirth reignites the spark of the supernatural. While the books don’t frame the actual moments as such in such obvious terms, that is arguably one of the most significant events in the series yet.

  208. GregoftheNorth
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    The first 4 episodes of season 4 will probably be given to the screeners in advance again. If so I would bet the purple wedding will be epissode 4 of season 4 which seems perfect. If thats not the case I would bet the battle of castle black is in that episode Rest assured something big will happen in episode 4 because that’s the last taste for the screeners.

  209. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    GregoftheNorth,

    Not sure of this year’s four episode mini-arc as a surefire indicator of S4′s structure, but I’d sure welcome it. It has been a satisfying approach so far. Gods know this season’s best (or should I say “worst” and mean it in the best way?) is yet to come, but it was great to have a few mini-climaxes in Jaime and Dany’s storylines instead of one agonizing wait for this seasons’s “Blackwater.” For me, the shock of the season so far was a dragonless 305 being even more enjoyable than the superb and fiery 304. It’s such a testament to the pedigree of the show’s dramatic output this season.

  210. Lann's Clever
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    After a Cogman rush, I’m addmittedly disappointed and little tired to comeback for D&D.

    My hopes for the show:

    In ‘Rains Of Castamere’, please neither Theon or King’s Landing. At least a bit of Dany, with her marvelous look at Yunkai, with dragon’s roars and a exciting song. And cut. Cut to Queen’s Crown, the expectancy of Jon and Bran’s meeting and Bran’s power. And Arya, a lot of Arya and her despair, let Maisie do that. RW. End. Use Dany, Bran and Jon in the preview, don’t stuck everything and everyone like ‘And Now His Watch is Ended’. The value and impact of the scenes dilutes itself. RW in six minutes?

    In ‘Mhysa’, the same. Make a Night’s King very scary scene. UnCat just after PW, it is known.

  211. sunspear
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I don’t see how. Perhaps the sarcasm didn’t get through, but I meant that as soon as people see the resurrection guy standing over Catelyn’s body, everyone is going to know what happens. The only way to make it startling would be to show it the way it was done in the book, with the brotherhood hanging the Frey and Cat showing up out of nowhere.

  212. armsbendback
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    Since the show runners have stated that from this point on, one season of show does not correspond with one book, in regards to Jon and The Wall’s storyline, why can’t some of the post Battle of the Wall stuff happen in Season 5? It might be more dramatic to have Jon defend the wall in episode 9, Stannis charges through the Wildings to end ep9. In ep10, you setup the possibility that Jon will not get the credit and will be viewed negatively by Stannis and as a traitor still by some of the Watch. Then, in the early episodes of season 5, youcan have the political maneuverings that lead to Jon being elected Lord Commander by Episode 3 or 4?

  213. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    sunspear,

    Sorry, I find sarcasm hard to detect over text unless it’s headsmashingly obvious. [laughs]

    I really hope they have the scene at all, of course, but I see your concern. But it could be handled with restraint. Here’s to hoping the focus is on her floating corpse at first, then actually having Nymeria drag it out. Leaving Beric and the Brotherhood out of the leading moments of the sequence won’t telegraph the outcome so quickly. I insist it can be done effectively, and I can’t imagine a better way to end the season. Also keep in mind Beric’s holy CPR is a shock to everyone surrounding him as 1) Thoros traditionally administers the prayer and 2) Cat’s corpse is believed, at least in the books to be beyond saving before Beric rushes in to give it the old college try.

    Also, we have a great setup for Beric’s motivation in such a scene, should it exist. He knows Arya thinks he’s failed her in sparing the Hound and he admired her late father. The Seventh Death of Beric Dondarrion is as much magnanimous as it ends up being unsettling for everyone living with the rasping consequence.

  214. Monica
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

    The season has to end with Nymeria pulling Cat out of the water, and Beric’s sacrifice when he gives Cat the “kiss of life,” ending his own.

    That’s cheesy?

    Amazon will see a huge jump in the sale of ASoIaF books!

    Why can’t HBO release Season 3 for Christmas? The sales would go through the roof!

  215. GregoftheNorth
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I do like the multiple climax’s in Jaime/Briennes story (the fight on the bridge, the hand, the hottub backstory was intense, and the bear. Their stories has alot of intensity. Dany had one with the killing the slavers i assume ep10 will be another with the taking of yunkai. Heck even Pod probably had multiple….(HAR!) /facepalm.

  216. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    Monica,

    Seriously! I’d pay full price for it. Double, even! Ijustwantitnaosobaaaaaaad. XD

    GregoftheNorth,

    “This just in! Game of Thrones fans interested in ‘multiple climaxes.’ More at 11.”

  217. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    Again, how do people still think the PW is happening in episode 10? That is a major event that will be the focal point of any episode. It would be in the synopsis if it were happening.

  218. The Purist
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

    So will GRRM write PW episode next season? I hope so because that episode and “The Bear and the Maiden Fair” this season are the only episodes I’m looking forward to, seeing as I know he won’t screw up where others have.

  219. WompWomp
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Leave them to it, I guess. I hope the team takes all the time it needs to carve out awesome seasons, within the realm of reason of course. When the showrunners say S3 covers roughly the first half of ASOS, it either registers with people or it doesn’t.

    I’m all for Cat being breathed back to life at the end of this season in part because it actually happens not so long after the Red Wedding itself.

    The Purist,

    I bet I know what your three favorite episodes are, and one hasn’t even aired yet. :]

    AngryGOTFan is my favorite purist persona, but I appreciate (to some extent) that you guys exist. Y’all let me laugh at what I usually wouldn’t.

  220. Lann's Clever
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    armsbendback,

    I agree with your belief. But the pace was so hasty in third season that the Battle of Wall will no broaden to the seven episode. PW will happen in second episode (where are Martell’s development?) so Tyrion’s judgement won’t long too. My hope Tyrion’s kills will be in 9th episode, with fillers (aka Theon). And kingsmoot, hopefulness.

  221. GregoftheNorth
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    Monica,

    I think Arya making/seeing Nymeria pull Cat from the river would be great but I’m unsure about whether I think they should show Beric bringing her back or nothing til the frey hanging. On one hand, Beric asking Thoros to bring her back and when he says he can’t, Beric says you must, I failed her, etc. Then sacrifice himself to bring her back. That’d be cool. But the reveal in the book was pretty impactful too. The WTF factor was pretty big for me when i read that.

  222. GregoftheNorth
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    Pate,

    I completely agree with this, great start for episode 10. the brotherhood without banners doesn’t need to be with Nymeria but I suppose they could be. It could also be a good opening for season 4.

  223. Selmy
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    The more I look a the Cersei picture, the more I think she is looking at Jaime. Just a feeling, I could be wrong.

  224. Vicarious
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    I’m 100% sure Ygritte will only die on the next season. There was one interview in which GRRM said that the night before, one of the female actors was begging him not to kill her character, while he was giggling on the inside, due to the fact that he had already killed her a few books before (she hadn’t read them). He also mentioned that that was the night in which he first met that actress. I dont think these statements apply to any other female characters. I mean, Michelle Fairley obviously knows she dies, and I can’t recall any other female deaths. Also, Rose Leslie has admitted she never read the books.

  225. pntrlqst
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    idkk,

    Stephanie Blacker can be seen undressing Charlotte Hope in this trailer @ 1:17.5

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4iljcuzjG8

    Blacker’s CV lists her as directed by Michelle MacLaren, so episodes seven or eight. Both episodes are listed as having “Strong Sexual Content” on HBO.com

  226. Adam
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    Episode 3.10 – Mhysa
    Joffrey challenges Tywin.

    AT THE PW?!?!?!??!?!?!

    KIDDING. :D

  227. Adam
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    Jason:
    Wait, isn’t Rains a Lannister song? Why isn’t there any Lannister in the synopsis!

    Awww, bless.

  228. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    Also, Rose Leslie has admitted she never read the books.

    I’m certain I read an interview where she said she was on A Feast For Crows. Help, anyone? Maybe when she was discussing her scene with Kit in ep. 5.

  229. Pate
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    idkk,

    Maybe the first of the three deaths/leeches is the death of Balon Greyjoy, and in the next season shows something of the Pyke/Great Wyk incident, introducing the greyjoy brothers who are very important in the future… (I Hope…)

    We need more of Victarion!!!

    What is death may never die!!!

  230. Endless Giraffe
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

    pntrlqst,

    Is there any prevailing theory on who those two will be playing, because I’m drawing a complete blank?

  231. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    Anyone know if Patrick Malahide is back? I’d hate to see Balon make his exit offscreen… I could live with it, but seeing the old crank trying to cross the bridge in the rain and seeing a faceless shape waiting for him… Show viewers would think it’s a shadowbaby, we can speculate on a Faceless Man :D

  232. ebevan91
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh: I’m certain I read an interview where she said she was on A Feast For Crows. Help, anyone? Maybe when she was discussing her scene with Kit in ep. 5.

    You’re right. It’s mentioned that she’s on book 4 in her Entertainment Weekly interview.

  233. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 4, 2013 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    Vicarious,

    I think he was talking about Sibil Kikelli and Shae.

  234. Oz of Thrones
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 12:15 am | Permalink

    Anyone catch SNL tonight? Jaime showed up in a game show bit called Game of Game of Thrones. Good stuff!

  235. Shan
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 12:24 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    sunspear,

    I hope we get a Tywin slapping Joffrey moment following the “challenge”.

    I hope so, too. On the other hand, the fact that Tywin never really punished Joffrey for challenging him is one of the biggest pieces of evidence people have that Tywin helped to plan Joffrey’s death. When Tywin says, “that boy needs to learn a sharp lesson in manners,” and we don’t see the boy ever actually learn a sharp lesson in manners, it’s probably time for that boy to either join the witness protection program or write up a really good will.

  236. Adam
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 12:30 am | Permalink

    Jeez, just read through this thread and there are SO many people posting BIG spoilers out in the open. I can’t imagine how tough it must be to safely navigate this thread as a non-reader.

    Book readers: Be considerate! If you’re referring to events from later in the season or future seasons, put them in spoiler tags. You wouldn’t have wanted someone telling you what happens in future books while you were reading them for the first time, so make sure you don’t accidentally do the same for someone seeing these events for the first time.

    End rant.

  237. Shan
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    Turri:
    OhManymous,
    Not really. Let me speculate:
    - 307 ends with Jaime killing Locke
    - 308 leaving Harrenhal, a bit of dialogue, “I dreamed of you”
    - 310 on the road, hear about RW, what does it mean for them?
    (- 402 PW)
    - 403 arriving

    All good thoughts. I remember in the books Brienne was absolutely devastated by the Red Wedding, and Jaime was trying to cheer her up in his own Jaime way, which mostly involved calling her names. It would make a nice balance for what she did for him in Episode 4.

  238. Bean
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 12:40 am | Permalink

    Those are hard to read. I still think they will have the joffrey wedding. Kings landing would simply be boring without it, and they set it up constantly this season with all the tyrell plotting. You want Tyrion in jail by the end of the season. Otherwise, there’s just no arc to plot there. That said, they’ve whiffed before. Hopefully they’ll do a good job with season 3.

  239. Shan
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 12:43 am | Permalink

    Jentario,

    I can picture Brienne’s storyline in Season 4 being about her trying to figure out what to do with herself in KL now that the people she’s serving are all dead and the only person she likes or trusts anymore works for her enemies.

    If I remember correctly, Jaime was trying to talk her into sticking around KL for a while after the RW — offering her various kinds of jobs, none of which she was interested in — and she was apparently hanging around court long enough for Cersei to know who she was and what she looked like.

    I could see stuff like that — mixed in with detective work to try to figure out where Sansa Stark went — taking up some time before she is eventually given Oathkeeper and sent away toward the end of the season, either because she finally hit some kind of breakthrough with the detective work or because something else happened that made her need to get out of the city.

  240. Ser Zig-Zag
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    Bean,

    just no…

  241. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 12:57 am | Permalink

    Bean,

    How is it whiffing? Whiffing would be rushing through the royal wedding, which is what would happen if it was in the season finale. The Purple Wedding is not a climactic event. It sets things in motion and should be towards the beginning of season 4.

  242. Morgan King
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 1:23 am | Permalink

    Pate,

    The little we know of Winds of Winter chapter indicates they are indeed going to playing a large role.

  243. idkk
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 1:32 am | Permalink

    pntrlqst,

    If it is her, I wonder what the context of the scene will be?

  244. WildSeed
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 1:44 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming: The Night’s King seems more likely. It is a story that has more importance to the overall lore, there are theories that we may see the Night’s King appear in the story at some point, (or maybe we’ve met him already: some fans think that Coldhands is the Night’s King) and, with the whole sacrificing babies to the Others thing, it also ties into what was going on with Craster.

    ETA: The Night’s King story was included in the S2 Blu-ray. More proof that it may be important to the story down the line?

    Good point.

  245. WildSeed
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 1:47 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    Waiting until season 4 for the PW allows the RW to linger in the viewer’s minds. For the viewers angered by this to leave the show. Oh well. Fuck ‘em. Why can’t they have the reaction and frustration that many of us were left with after reading about Robb and Catelyn’s fate? In TV time you need at least a couple of episodes to make an impact otherwise to follow immediately with the PW seems like “another shocking twist!”. Let Sansa mourn, let Tyrion scowl, let Joffrey crow and crow. The fact that D and D are going wait an entire season for the karmic justice to befall on the Lannisters is proof that the showrunners still have the balls they possessed in season 1 with Baelor.


    Yes we may lose some fans, but I guarantee you all we will earn more for this daring move.

    LMAO……. hey that’s not funny *>*

  246. Pate
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 3:02 am | Permalink

    Morgan King,

    :O!!!! Thanks!!! i´ve found the transcript! Just knew about Arianne and Theon´s . The iron islands has a world apart. :D

  247. hargrind
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 3:42 am | Permalink

    Shan,

    There is absolutely no evidence for it. Joffrey’s death makes him and his family look weak in front everyone, he has nothing to gain from it. If Tywin really wanted Joffrey gone, he could just force him to step down and lock him away or whatever. He’s the one who holds the power in King’s Landing.

  248. Shan
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 4:13 am | Permalink

    hargrind:
    Shan,

    There is absolutely no evidence for it. Joffrey’s death makes him and his family look weak in front everyone, he has nothing to gain from it. If Tywin really wanted Joffrey gone, he could just force him to step down and lock him away or whatever. He’s the one who holds the power in King’s Landing.

    “Absolutely no evidence’ is stretching it. It’s a popular theory. Certainly not confirmed, but I didn’t make it up.

    Part of the evidence in favor of it is that Tywin has a lot to gain from it. Let’s review:

    a. The PW got rid of an out-of-control liability who was antagonizing important allies and turning the people against his family in favor of his younger, more tractable brother

    b. The aftermath of the PW made sure that Tyrion could never inherit Casterly Rock, which was an issue — Tyrion probably couldn’t have forced Tywin to give him his inheritance, but he sure as hell wouldn’t have given it up without a fight c.

    c. The PW solved the tricky problem of what to do when Joff got out of hand and began mistreating Margaery, which he almost certainly would have at some point, no matter how good she was at controlling him. It’s one thing to mistreat Sansa Stark — she’s not the beloved only daughter of a powerful family that Tywin is depending on to support his family’s claim to the throne.

    Tywin does have the power in KL, but “having power” and “having the authority to blatantly lock up the king” are not the same thing. Tywin’s power is strong, but it’s subtle. He can use it to do quite a bit, but he has to work under the surface — Joffrey is the king, not him. Legally, he doesn’t have any more power over Joffrey than Ned had over Robert. His power lies in the ability to do things secretly and illegally, and locking up the king is not something you can do secretly or illegally.

    Also: from Tywin’s point of view, what would be the benefit of forcing Joffrey to step down rather than killing him? A Joffrey forced of the throne would be dangerous — who knows what he might say or do. Tywin doesn’t care if Cersei is happy — he only cares about his legacy, and Joffrey alive, in any state, was a threat to that legacy.

  249. Jentario
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 4:27 am | Permalink

    Silverstormm:
    I really think some people ought to wake up – whining about things not being in the right order (wah) or not in this season (wah) etc – we’re so flipping lucky we get to see this epic saga unfold in front of our eyes at all!
    Yes I’ve missed some stuff that was cut i.e. weasel soup & the chain but I’m not whining and moaning about it, I understand the show has to make sacrifices & compromises and I for one am just delighted that we get to see this fantastic story brought to life by such competent people as BC and D&D. The show is the show and the books are the books, that’s the way it is and no amount of complaining is going to change that.
    Some people are never happy and it’s frankly astounding.

    I suppose you’re right. I’m very happy with what the show has done so far and am really anticipating some events that’ll come this season and next. I am very happy ASOIAF has such a worthy TV adaption.

    That said, I can’t help but feel sad that the Ds are trying to be conservative and think more of the far future than the current season. In the end the show might get canceled and if they hold things off it would just leave an empty season. It’s like what GRRM did with ADWD.

    They have the budget, they have the time, but it seems they prefer showing us that Pod is a sexpert than doing justice to what could easily have been Jon’s greatest season :(

    I’m just happy there’s a season 4 and that the show still seems to be gaining viewers and expanding its fanbase. Hopefully they won’t hold off climactic scenes such as PW and the attack behind Castle Black in the next seasons :)

  250. Joan Català
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    Crow’s Eye,

    Wtf?! Why did it take him so long?

  251. mags giantsbabe
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    Trees. Is that Ross in that spoiler? It’s going to be interesting to read reactions after the episode. Although considering whose the person is spying for, it makes complete sense that they would be caught out.

  252. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    Crow’s Eye,

    Noo! Why would they do this so early? I trully like Ros, and I am a book-reader… I guess her purpose has ended… :( Esme deserves a curtain call! The first only show character!

  253. Nick_Scryer
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    Man, that is brutal.

    Was kinda hoping Ros was going somewhere, guess not. I think LF is the one who gives her to Joff, To show the Tyrells how he can’t be controlled and create the LF/Olenna plan.

  254. zod
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    Crow’s Eye,

    Wow.. :O

    I think this is the most shocking thing I’ve seen in GOT. I liked Ros.. RIP.

  255. zambi76
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    Also bummed out by this. Ros lovers represent!

  256. Michael274
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    Crow’s Eye,

    Where did you get this ?

  257. zambi76
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    It’s a leak I think. There are also pictures of a Loras/Sansa date floating around tumblr.

  258. zod
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    zambi76,

    Where?

    OK, got it. Thanks Crow’s Eye!

    Wow.. the shot of Jon and Ygritte on the Wall looks amazing.

  259. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    Crow’s Eye,

    Melisandre never meets Arya in the books, and this interaction between them annuls the vision of Mel about “jon’s sister”… I wonder how will that play in the future…

  260. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    Re: Ros :-( Regrets and gratitude Esme Bianco for putting a human face on the brothel scenes. This will be a chilling episode tonight methinks. I guess this explains the hints given by one of the showrunners that Ser Dontos is back. They may also make it not exactly clear who Ser Dontos is working for until the right moment. So Sansa loses her chance of escape (or so it appears) from LF after learning about her new marriage arrangement and finds Dontos as her new saviour.
    I could be wrong though.

  261. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    Mike Chair,

    Arthur will be happy. Unseemly happy.

  262. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    We also have confirmation that The Lord of Light is called Rho’llor finally. I wonder if we also hear the terms Azhor Ahai and PwP as well? Having Thoros and Mel together really allows for some unforced exposition on the LoL and AA.

  263. jkb
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    Crow’s Eye,

    buahahah, fucking evil! joff at his finest. i like ros but i like people dying in horrible ways even more. good stuff.

  264. mariamb18
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming: Poor Ros… but as Mike Chair said, she started to play the game, and she was the weakest of pawns…

    Yes, poor Ros. Quite a gruesome death. Once she crossed Littlefinger, she wasn’t long for this world. Now Dontos reappears as Sansa’s saviour (following along with the books). I hope they ignore the Florian and Jonquil nonsense.

  265. Abyss
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    Off-Topic:
    That made me smile. Join the smile wagon!

  266. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor, how do you know about R’hllor, and
    mariamb18, how do you know about Dontos coming back? I heard the actor didn’t return. was the part recast?

  267. zod
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming,

    R’hllor: There is a screencap with subtitles on it, and the word R’hllor is mentioned.

    Dontos: They said in an interview that we’re going to see Dontos again.

  268. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming,

    The Dontos thing was a mention by Benioff or Weiss just recently. The mention of Rho’llor comes from a caption from the same set os 4chan pics where we learned of Ros’ death.

  269. Johan Sporre
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    I’m kind of dreading seeing tonight’s episode now.

  270. Josla
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    Ros. I’m so sad since I really liked her and was expecting her to survive the series. Silly me. Not sure I’d want to watch this. Oh my god. Feeling terrible

  271. Michael274
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    Well at least the Ros haters would stop bitching at the episodes from now on . That’s a bright side at least . It’s funny because she was barely in this season and wasn’t even naked yet somehow she still managed to ruin the episodes in some people’s minds .

  272. mariamb18
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor:
    Summer Is Coming,

    The Dontos thing was a mention by Benioff or Weiss just recently.

    Yes and his reappearance and its significance to the storyline has been briefly discussed in some threads here.

    At least now, with Ros’ death, we will be spared further speculation that she would take on the role of Fake Arya/Jeyne Poole.

  273. WompWomp
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    Johan Sporre,

    Me too. Wish I hadn’t run into the spoiler since it’s unique to the show, but steering clear of the pictures should leave the method a mystery.

    There seems to be a low profile leak each week. Someone posted caps from the two bathing scene last week. Better put up my spoiler visor from now on.

  274. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,
    zod,

    Thx! I found them. The view with Jon and Ygritte… amazing… and Jaime trying to eat with his left.. that will be a bit amusing.
    It’s wierd how sad I am for Ros, of all people… probably because it’s unexpected…

  275. WompWomp
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Michael274,

    Aw, this makes me sadder by the minute. I found her Podteasing really endearing. She was giving him the best look…

  276. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming,

    To be honest I thought this episode minus the climb would be ho-hum. Now I’m intrigued beyond belief. This season is stellar thus far.

  277. Ours is the Fury
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    ANY discussion of the leaked screencaps has to be covered with spoiler code, people.

  278. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    I wonder if we will hear Littlefinger’s teaser monologue in this episode? After all the episode is called ‘The Climb’.

  279. mariamb18
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming:

    It’s wierd how sad I am for Ros of all people… probably because it’s unexpected…

    I’m a bit sad as well. I didn’t expect her to last the series because the common folk don’t fare well in this story. Too bad she didn’t die doing something noble (like trying to help Sansa) as opposed to being tortured by our sadistic teen-age king.

  280. Josla
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I liked Ros. I never thought I could feel so bad about her death. I’m close to tears right now. O know I’m a baby but she didn’t deserve to die like that. Poor girl. You were hated by many but I always liked you ’cause you had a kind heart. Something very rare in r hi is world. Rest in peace :’(

  281. Ser Tahu
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    umm, why is everyone saying that Ros dies?

  282. nightwolf
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    There are leaked screencaps that show it happening.

  283. Josla
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    mariamb18: I’m a bit sad as well. I didn’t expect her to last the series because the common folk don’t fare well in this story. Too bad she didn’t die doing something noble (like trying to help Sansa) as opposed to being tortured by our sadistic teen-age king.


    Well. At least that’d make Joffrey’s death the sweeter for me. He hasn’t do anything lately to remind us just jow hideous and disgusting an asshole he is. I’ll remember this scenes when hi is dying. Oh yes I will! Just hope Margaery don’t take part in tjis atrocity. I like Petyr and don’t really care if he betrayed Ned because before he actually warned him. But if he was the one who gave her away for this purpose he’s going to be my second hated character

  284. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    Me too. I didn’t have expectations for this episode. Beyond belief, indeed! Stellar, INDEED!

    Josla, Fury said to mark the spoilers. Sorry Sue!

    I already have in my head the ladder monologue that LF will give to Varys, intercut with Joff killing Ros… Oh Jesus. and talking about Jesus, Happy Easter people! for those who celebrate it today!

  285. sunspear
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    Shan,

    That is still no evidence whatsoever, and ignores everything we know about the PW. Littlefinger is the one who provided the poison, and he used it as cover to smuggle Sansa out of the Red Keep. How do you explain that if you think Tywin was in on the event?

  286. Josla
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming,

    Oops… sorry. I made amends on my next post :’(

  287. Zack
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    Sounds like tonight’s episode is a downer :(

  288. Timmen
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    where are the screen caps? ive searched the replies to no avail

  289. danny
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Timmen,

    You can be prosecuted by the law for having those screencaps without HBO’s permission. That’s why you can’t see them.

  290. Rho
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Timmen,

    The link to the spoilery screencaps is in a post by Carne (currently the latest post, but that may change) in the post thread for “Episode 26 Preview: “The Climb”” here at winteriscoming.net (scroll down here: http://winteriscoming.net/2013/05/episode-26-preview-the-climb/)

  291. Ours is the Fury
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    Rho,

    No they are not here.

    Please do not post those links at WiC.

    Thanks.

  292. Mike Chair
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: Arthur will be happy. Unseemly happy.

    Not to mention AngryGoTFan.

    danny,

    Yeah, it looks like Winter or Ours is the Fury deleted the comments containing links to the screencaps, as they should have. I didn’t think mine did. If it did I apologize. Maybe I quoted someone who did and the quote contained the link. Anyway, I’ll just state for the record again my prediction that Littlefinger is behind it.

  293. Rho
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    I’m very sorry – the link had been there in the other thread for several hours, so I didn’t realize it shouldn’t be posted. I’d delete my post if I could. Please feel free to remove it, and again my apologies.

  294. Loki
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    someone made ten pictures 10 hours before the premiere – WTF YOU PEOPLE ARE THE WORST WHY DID YOU DO THAT BURN BURN IN HELL I HATE YOU DELETE ALL DISCUSSION NAO

    Spoiling all plot turns and many scenes of first four episodes by the same admin one month before the premiere – OK.

  295. Tom
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    “Brans new gift” couldnt it be warging Hodor?

  296. Winter Is Coming
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Loki:
    someone made ten pictures 10 hours before the premiere – WTF YOU PEOPLE ARE THE WORST WHY DID YOU DO THAT BURN BURN IN HELL I HATE YOU DELETE ALL DISCUSSION NAO

    Spoiling all plot turns and many scenes of first four episodes by the sameadmin one month before the premiere – OK.

    I know you are just a troll character, but there is a difference here and I’m going to explain it anyway.

    These spoilers are actual leaked images from the show, the other was just answering questions from commenters. Also, people complained about the spoilers that FaB was dropping here and so he stopped spoiling stuff.

    So yeah, this was a bad comparison.

  297. tysnow
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Wow, lots of spoilers in this post not blocked properly, pay attention posters and please use preview button.

  298. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Just a random question is it considered a faux pas amongst website runners to ban a troll? Even if everyone hates him/her? I don’t care either way as the particular one is kind of funny and doesn’t get under the skin like some trolls do.

    I mean there’s a reason why sites allow Trolls to florish right?

  299. inthefade
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Javi Marcos:
    Ghost story-Rat Cook?
    Bran new gift- warging Hodor?

    Dragonstone: Davos as new Hand thanks to Mel support.

    Davos was already named Hand, guess he can be named hand again
    Javi Marcos,

  300. Chandler
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    sunspear,

    I am really excited about the scene where Tyrion goes out to meet the Red Viper

  301. WompWomp
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    As Lady Olenna would say, trolls help “move the bowels.” Think of a moderate dose of non-abusive trolling as incidental interfauna in a thriving digital forum, like the bacteria in a probiotic digestive tract. So long as they’re not the exclusive presence, trolls can be a fixture of a healthy digital environment.

  302. OhManymous
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    This is how I’d do the resurrection scene: Beric and crew arrive ready to save the day at Frey. Beric sees Catelyns corpse and falls to his knees holding her in his arms and lamenting her fate. Suddenly, he staggers back, his missing eye weeping fresh blood – then his shoulder, his stomach, etc.

    He collapses, dead, as Thoros looks on in shock. Lady Stoneheart’s rasping offscreen and Thoros’ reaction. BAM ROLL CREDITS.

    Come on, is that really a corny scene?

  303. Jambo
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    OhManymous:
    This is how I’d do the resurrection scene: Beric and crew arrive ready to save the day at Frey. Beric sees Catelyns corpse and falls to his knees holding her in his arms and lamenting her fate. Suddenly, he staggers back, his missing eye weeping fresh blood – then his shoulder, his stomach, etc.


    He collapses, dead, as Thoros looks on in shock. Lady Stoneheart’s rasping offscreen and Thoros’ reaction. BAM ROLL CREDITS.

    Come on, is that really a corny scene?

    I’d like to see it like this: scene with Arya + Hound at a campsite, talk for a bit….she goes to sleep. Transition to wolf dream, Nymeria leading the BWB coaxing them to follow her – they arrive at a river, she pulls out Cat, then it could go down like you said. That would be awesome. Arya’s first wolf dream/confirmation that Nymeria is still alive and kicking ass, plus Cat’s resurrection. Lots of good stuff to soothe over RW pain til next season.

  304. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I guess so. To me Troll = bully. And having my share of bullies in life I hate them with a passion.

  305. WildSeed
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    I avoided this thread for fear of too much spoilery, but relieved that there were only
    the brief quotes in the subject post (I didn’t read the leaked synopses, nor any
    explanatory comments). My only thought was , the pivotal scenes were still to
    come, and viewers will finally envision what were only words finally put to visual
    action. Wonderful news that D Nutter directed these.

    WompWomp:
    Joshua Taylor,

    As Lady Olenna would say, trolls help “move the bowels.” Think of a moderate dose of non-abusive trolling as incidental interfauna in a thriving digital forum, like the bacteria in a probiotic digestive tract. So long as they’re not the exclusive presence, trolls can be a fixture of a healthy digital environment.

    Thanks for that, in concept, trolls online are indeed a virulent strain of bacteria.
    If tolerated in excess however, each flare up causes an occasional event of others
    spreading the infection, and rogue comments continue without relief ( verbal
    diarrhea ). Not exactly the release I had in mind. I’m with Joshua Taylor on
    the troll issue. But thanks for giving me a reason to smile about it (:

  306. Chris
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    Okay, Ned’s execution was probably one of the biggest moments but RW as biggest in the series? No way! Big scene for me, in all 5 books so far, was the battle of the Fist. It’s what Stannis saw in the fires instead of some big victory of his own and it’s what Davos used to motivate Stannis’ move north. Whoops. We never saw that. ...and Sam’s message, which Davos reads, is specifically never sent in the show. Bummer.

  307. Ron Glenn
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    If they don’t do The Red Wedding properly this season, it will be a waste of a season. It has all been building to this. Here’s how they could do this season and the next: This season’s cliffhanger The Red Wedding; next season’s cliffhanger Meet Lady Stoneheart. To kill off Cat and Robb in any other way other than the way they died in the book would be a disservice to the whole story.

  308. WompWomp
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    I wouldn’t say they’re desirable, but I wouldn’t equate trolls with bullies either. Bullies are just bullies, people who act out on their inner deficiencies by externally abusing others physically and/or mentally. They distract themselves from their own shoulder-chips by hounding others, and they often target the vulnerable.

    Trolls on the other hand are a broader and more sophisticated branch of web personas. While I’m sure there are gray areas (see Neoconservatives), it serves to distinguish them from bullies. A typical trolling M.O. consists of intentionally saying something so baldly contrarian that they get a rise out of one or more users, thus tricking others to waste precious time and thought reacting to a disingenuous and often outrageous position. It’s all very meta, and sometimes in good fun. There are some incredibly effective trolls whose potent mastery of the trolling arts hints at a higher intelligence, the sum of their trolling sometimes even adding up to a sophisticated meta-commentary of their particular field. Others are just crude guerrilla posters who like getting a rise out of people.

    And of course, there are outright malicious trolls such as those hairy fiends spoiling ASOS on YouTube. It all comes down to wanting to be heard and throw people off. we all have that desire to some degree. it just takes different forms in each person. There’s a troll in every man, and it stirs when you put a keyboard and mouse in his hands!

  309. Shmurb
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    And give him anonymity, don’t forget that. It’s being able to fuck with other people with absolutely no repercussions. The few people I know personally who troll online are totally passive aggressive and avoidant of conflict IRL.

  310. WompWomp
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Sorry to hear. Bullies do suck. I still wouldn’t call trolls bullies (trolls are a pretty complex subject of their own), but they’re not always the smart or fun kinds I mentioned.

    Chris,

    I think I conceded it wasn’t one of the biggest events in the series in the general sense, just to those who read it. Like someone aptly put it, it’s more Baelor-ish than anything else, though Baelor holds the distinction of adding tons of fuel to the fires of war. I hold Ned’s execution and dragon triplet birthday to be among the biggest landmark events yet.

    Ron Glenn,

    Damn right they better get it right! The cake has to be just like it was in the books or somebody’s getting a face full of peasant droppings.

    (Mango mousse or bust! >:0)

  311. WompWomp
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    Shmurb,

    Good point. It generally applies. There’s cyber-bullying which is all kinds of new age nasty, but the broader distinction stands.

    Yes, friends. Faceless Men are real, and sometimes quite deadly.

  312. Bodiccuh
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    There’s a troll in every man, and it stirs when you put a keyboard and mouse in his hands!

    FTW!!!!!

    PS: Stupid computer is using wrong account name to post, this is Ms. D. Ranged in AZ, will fix on next post. Sigh…….

  313. Shan
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    sunspear:
    Shan,

    That is still no evidence whatsoever, and ignores everything we know about the PW. Littlefinger is the one who provided the poison, and he used it as cover to smuggle Sansa out of the Red Keep. How do you explain that if you think Tywin was in on the event?

    We don’t know that Littlefinger planned the PW. We know that Littlefinger told Sansa that he planned the PW, and we know that he told her that he did it for literally no reason. Sansa buys it, but we don’t have to buy it. Littlefinger says a lot of things.

    I don’t doubt that Littlerfinger was in on the PW, but I do not accept that he would have the guts to murder Tywin’s grandson without Tywin’s agreement. I do not believe that Littlefinger is that brave. Littlefinger’s explanation also leaves out Olenna Tyrell, who we know for a fact was in on the plot, unless we’re going with the idea that her needing to get rid of Joffrey and messing around with Sansa’s hairnet is a coincidence.

    My take is that Sansa is of little value to Tywin after the RW — considering that Riverrun fell not long after Robb Stark did, there would be no one left to trade her to, and Tywin knew it. The other advantages, which I mentioned earlier, probably outweighed any minimal inconvenience he’d face for getting rid of her, and she provided him with a convenient scapegoat and made sure that Littlefinger would play his part, whatever that was.

    Again, it’s just a theory, but it’s not a ridiculous theory. At least, I don’t think it is.

  314. KatyR
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming,

    I haven’t seen the pictures, but if Melisandre is actually going to be interacting with Arya in this episode, could that be what her “I see a darkness in you” line from the previews was referring to?

    If that turns out to be the case, then in a way, Melisandre would be partially filling the role of the Ghost of High Heart when she calls Arya a “dark heart.”

  315. sunspear
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    Shan,

    How does the Littlefinger theory leave out Olenna Tyrell? They planned it together in Highgarden. Littlefingers spy was the one who provided the poison, and we know he and Tywin never spoke before the wedding. So where does that leave you?

  316. laurel
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:34 am | Permalink

    Doesn’t Lord Frey have the band play The Rains of Castamere as a signal during the RW?

  317. MRR
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:38 am | Permalink

    Could somebody kindly mark this (and the 306-308 post) with the “synopsis” tag so it comes up in searches? Thanks.

  318. Shan
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:24 am | Permalink

    sunspear:
    Shan,

    How does the Littlefinger theory leave out Olenna Tyrell? They planned it together in Highgarden. Littlefingers spy was the one who provided the poison, and we know he and Tywin never spoke before the wedding. So where does that leave you?

    With all of the other evidence that I mentioned?

  319. ScotchAndGOT
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    Jentario,

    I agree with Jentario. I think that PW will happen in episode 10. It makes for good television. I disagree with this whole notion of tearing everyones heart out and letting it linger. Then the KL storyline has this awkward ending of all being miserable and there’s no real end to the arc. To make TV viewers wait an entire season for PW just to let pain linger doesn’t make sense (side note: I feel book readers always seem to want to sadistically torture TV viewers).

    By ending on the note of Joffrey dying, you give viewers some retribution for RW, resolve all the buildup of people hating on Joffrey (especially after the Climb episode), leave a cliffhanger and mystery for next season. It’s compelling TV.

    Also, the time between Joffrey insulting Tywin and the PW is almost nil. The only relevant chapters really are some uncomfortable scenes with Sansa and Tyrion, which can be done in like 5 mins in TV.

    Anyway – I HOPE for PW this season!!!!

  320. Lux
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    Why was my post removed? I asked if it was absolutly certain Stephanie Blacker was the girl undressing Roslin and not Val, wanting to know if Val’s part was still to be cast for season 4.. is my obsession with the books and the show/goal, as an actress, of getting a GOT part harmful here?? I’m puzzled..,

  321. bill
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    i hope the freys dont kill robb smh

  322. novichaso
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 3:04 am | Permalink

    ScotchAndGOT,

    I seriously doubt that. If the PW is this season, then Dany should arrive at Meereen and I dont think we would get to see Meereen this season. Also, Jon has to defend Castle Black against the small group of wildings. that inludes Ygrittes death. To many chapters in between the RW and the PW, SO much to tell, SO much tragedy for house Stark. It will be better from my point of view that they save all the Lannister tragedies, deaths and betrayals for season 4.

    I am looking forward to Lady Stoneheart, though.

  323. novichaso
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 3:22 am | Permalink

    Shan: My take is that Sansa is of little value to Tywin after the RW

    Absolutely NOT! Tywin still needed Sansa after the RW and the PW. If Sansa Stark was still around after the PW … you think Tywin or Littlefinger wouldn’t marry her off to the Boltons?
    Just because the Boltons are Warden of the North, that doesn’t mean northeners will follow. “The North Remembers” what the Boltons did. Since Sansa wasn’t around … they sent “Fake Arya” to wed Ramsay. A Bolton marrying a Stark will secure The North.

  324. ScotchAndGOT
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    novichaso,

    I see what you’re saying, but the show chronology does not have to EXACTLY follow the books. As in, the Daeny storyline doesn’t have to happen in line with how it happens in the books, since it’s a different arc. I agree, it might seem rushed to have the PW, but I still think it’s a good way to end the season – to foreshadow the problems the Lannisters will have in season 4 as well as set up Tyrion’s trials and tribulations for the following season. We’ll see what happens though. Definitely looking forward to Lady Stoneheart (think it will happen in ep 10 cuz of the episode name)

  325. Ceilidh Chaos
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    Jentario,

    Spreading the PW and Battle of the Wall to s4 is a good thing. At the current pace we’re set to out strip the books, we need to include more of the little things that happen in order to keep a good good pace. Personally I am in love with Dorne and will be immensely happy if D&D give Oberyn enough screen time so that all the other viewers fall in love with him too. His death needs to matter, viewers need to care about him and about the fact that he is trying to avenge his sister and her children who were killed by the Mountain at lord Tywin’s order. In order to do that we need some episodes for the Martell’s to arrive for the wedding.
    Oberyn to take a seat on the Small Council. Not enough small council meetings lately imho. Oberyn and Tyrion’s friendship needs time to develop there are some great dialogues between them in the book. We need some scenes allowing the viewers to know that Tywin was the architect of the Red Wedding, etc. I dont see much filler needed here

  326. Ceilidh Chaos
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    laurel,

    Yes Rains of Castamere – the lannister song – is the signal to begin the Massacre

  327. DavidMG
    Posted May 15, 2013 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Alice,

    If I remember correctly, Bran is telling a ghost story when they’re resting at the Nightfort and Samwell meets with them. So that’s the event that line is referencing.

  328. Zack
    Posted May 15, 2013 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    DavidMG,

    I wonder if it will be the Rat Cook or the one about the Stark who gets it on with a white walker. I’m hoping the former, what a creepy story :)

  329. P. J. Carvalho
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 12:56 am | Permalink

    Jason,

    Oh , child …

  330. P. J. Carvalho
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 12:57 am | Permalink

    Jason:
    Wait, isn’t Rains a Lannister song? Why isn’t there any Lannister in the synopsis!

    Oh , child …

  331. sandr@
    Posted June 4, 2013 at 6:33 am | Permalink

    Jason,

    they may not be there… but they pull the strings.


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